Season 1 | Episode 7 | Care
October 16, 2018
26:33
Jesus the Game Changer
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Season 1 | Episode 7 | Care
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- - The belief that there is a God
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- like the one that Jesus taught of
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- who says that the most pain filled,
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- most disabled, most hurting human being,
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- carries the image of God and it's an ennobling thing
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- to sacrifice for them.
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- Well, you know, there's dynamite in that.
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- (upbeat music)
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- - There's one particular story of Jesus's care for people,
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- which is really important because three
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- of the people who write the story of Jesus's life
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- Matthew, Mark, and Luke all this story.
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- It's about a guy called Jairus who in a public setting,
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- and he was a synagogue ruler comes to see Jesus
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- and says my daughter's dying, can you help.
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- So Jesus, walking through the crowd,
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- with obviously people following,
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- heads to Jairus' house.
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- On the way, an anonymous woman,
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- who for 12 years had been suffering from a bleed,
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- which meant that she was ceremonially unclean,
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- who wanted desperately to be healed
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- thought that if I just touched the corner of his garment.
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- She reaches out and touches him.
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- Jesus feels something happening,
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- and he said who touched me.
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- And they're all saying,
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- are you kidding, there's people everywhere.
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- Jesus said, no who touched me,
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- and the woman comes forward
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- that she'd spent all this money on doctors
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- and no one could help her.
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- And Jesus says you're healed.
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- Jesus cares for Jairus as a wealthy,
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- influential, public individual and goes home
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- and heals his daughter.
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- Jesus also heals the marginalized anonymous woman
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- who was desperate for help.
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- Healing and care is for everybody.
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- Jesus's love is for the wealthy and the poor.
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- The influential and the marginalized.
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- Care is for all people.
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- - We tend to assume, secular or not,
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- that love needs to be part of our equation.
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- And I would say Jesus brought in a language,
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- expectations, a way of thinking about love,
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- a way of thinking about freedom.
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- Take Jesus out of the equation,
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- this is not just a world that's a little bit different,
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- it's a world that's pretty much not recognizable.
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- Because I think he's impacted us so profoundly
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- and so deeply in ways we just do not understand.
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- - No, people are staggered.
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- I mean, you look at the ancient sources,
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- again I'm a historian.
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- And they just marvel at how these Christians live.
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- They say if the poor arrive, they bring them in.
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- I mean, it's a great challenge now for us
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- with the migrant crisis.
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- You know, they give them shelter.
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- They bury not only their own dead
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- but other people's dead.
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- They care for them.
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- I mean, people were staggered.
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- And of course, the word behind this
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- is this word agape, which is love for the unlovely.
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- The Roman world hadn't heard of it.
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- It was coined by, with the Christian church emerging.
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- Because people would say,
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- well how do you explain this love for the unlovely.
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- Well only because Jesus at the cross
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- dies for the unlovely, his followers serve the unlovely.
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- And so, that's this transformational thing.
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- - But it is to say there's nothing about
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- atheism or secularism or the idea that
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- the material world is all that exists
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- that says there is a dignity and worth
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- to suffering or dying people
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- that I ought to sacrifice myself for.
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- But the belief that there is a God
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- like the one that Jesus taught of
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- who says that the most pain filled,
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- most disabled, most hurting human being,
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- carries the image of God
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- and that it's an ennobling thing to sacrifice for them.
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- Well, you know, there's dynamite in that
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- that has moved people for many many centuries
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- to be willing to sacrifice themselves
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- for the sake of folks that in the ancient world
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- were just put on the dung heap.
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- - It was a worldview of unconditional love
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- and radical tolerance that we see
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- Jesus preaching in Luke six.
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- You know, do good to those who don't do good to you.
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- Love your enemies.
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- And this sort of teaching was just, it was revolutionary.
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- Jesus even mentions you have heard it said
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- love your neighbor and hate your enemy.
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- And isn't that the way of the world?
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- But he comes back and says but I tell you,
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- love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
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- who persecute you, who don't do good to you.
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- And the reason that this is so important
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- and the reason why I think it spread
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- is because that is acceptance,
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- that's unconditional love.
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- - [Interviewer] John, what's your background.
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- - [John] My background is in nursing
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- before I came in to theology.
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- I nursed as a mental health nurse for 16 years.
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- - Wow.
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- Just from that background,
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- as we think about the Greco Roman world,
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- the world that Jesus stepped into,
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- how did they deal with say
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- people with mental illnesses or disabilities.
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- - Well, the world would be a very dark place
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- for people who were unable to produce,
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- who were experiencing disability.
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- Because the way in which people valued one another
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- within that context related to what they could do.
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- So it's a kind of a utilitarian context
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- where even children were only valued
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- in terms of what they could do when they grow up.
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- - Yeah.
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- - And so the bottom line would be that
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- disabled children would be killed,
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- they'd be put in a hill and they'd be exposed.
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- - Wow, just left outside.
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- - Just left outside.
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- Likewise for elderly people, you know,
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- there would be no social care because they can't produce
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- they would be contestablely useless.
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- - Rodney, what was it that Jesus taught
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- that the early church picked up on
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- that kind of shifted.
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- - I suppose the main thing he taught
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- is that life was sacred.
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- That the life of everyone.
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- That people were to take care of one another,
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- that we were our brother's keepers.
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- That we had a responsibility to look
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- after the old and the young
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- and the disabled and the ill.
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- You know, they showed up incredibly
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- during the two great plagues that hit the Roman Empire
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- very early in Christian days.
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- The wealthy Romans fled the cities when it happened,
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- including the physicians and the priests.
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- The Christians stayed.
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- They nursed the ill, took care of people,
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- and as a consequence some of them died
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- of the plague of course.
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- But Christians survived the plague at a much higher rate,
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- because as a matter of fact,
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- if you give people food and water and care for them
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- during the height of their illness,
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- many of them will survive.
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- And so there it was apparent
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- to all of these pagan neighbors
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- that the Christians were outliving them.
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- (contemplative music)
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- - So in antiquity there was no,
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- and when I say antiquity I mean classic Rome,
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- there was no welfare state, right,
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- that's a modern invention.
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- So, if you were sick and you were poor,
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- you were in trouble, basically.
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- If you were a traveler, if you were a foreigner,
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- and you ran out of money or you got robbed or something,
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- you were in trouble.
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- And it was the Christians
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- who tried to do something about this.
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- And that really goes back to the Old Testament,
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- you know, the Hebrew Bible is full of stuff
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- about looking after the poor, widows,
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- you know those who need help.
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- That was really a very Jewish concept
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- that was largely alien to the classical world.
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- I mean not entirely, you know, people won't horrible.
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- But the idea that you had a sort of specific
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- moral and religious duty to look after the poor
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- was quite a Jewish innovation,
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- and the Christians took that over.
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- - Jesus taught that value is intrinsic.
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- That it wasn't for what you could do
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- that you were valued by the Father.
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- Just simply for who you are, isn't it.
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- And he really very subtly, and sometimes quite gently,
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- transformed a whole society.
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- In the sense that you know for example,
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- taking a child, holding it up as a paradigm of the kingdom
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- is absolutely profound.
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- This child who society would destroy, he says,
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- you look at this child you see something of
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- what the world's about,
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- what the maker and creator of the universe is about.
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- Likewise, his relationships with women
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- were quite transformative.
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- Women were considered to be chattels, property,
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- but he communes with them.
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- He allows women to do things
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- that no other rabbi would do.
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- - It was the essence of the Christian lifestyle
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- that people care for one another
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- and look after one another.
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- And that there's this much greater sense
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- of an intimate community.
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- A community of believers,
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- but then a community of people who gave money every month
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- to take care of widows and orphans and what not.
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- In a world that had no social services,
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- there was a Roman emperor somewhat later,
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- Julian the Apostate, who said,
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- who wrote to the pagan temples and said
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- you've got to start looking after the sick people
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- and the poor, because these Christians are doing that,
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- and they're doing it just, of course,
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- to out do us and make us look bad.
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- It was nothing the idea
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- that they were doing it out of virtue.
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- But of course, his directions to the temples went nowhere
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- because there was no base for it,
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- there was nothing in the pagan traditions
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- about giving money to the poor.
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- I'm sure there were Romans that cared about one another,
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- I mean obviously you know people do.
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- But it wasn't built into the system.
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- It wasn't part of the thing that everybody
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- was raised believing.
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- And the fact that we have these views in the west
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- is because we were raised in these traditions,
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- in these views.
- 00:11:03.190 --> 00:11:05.050
- And of course, some of this came from the Judaeo tradition
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- within which Jesus arose.
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- It's of course the secret of the West.
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- - [Interviewer] Where in the world is the church reflecting
- 00:11:15.280 --> 00:11:18.030
- that attitude of Jesus.
- 00:11:18.030 --> 00:11:19.220
- - One of the most remarkable passages
- 00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:21.130
- is when in John's gospel Jesus says
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- I no longer call you servants, I call you friends.
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- The maker and creator of the universe
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- says you are my friend.
- 00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:31.140
- And then he says, as long as you do what I command you.
- 00:11:31.140 --> 00:11:33.270
- And then later on he says,
- 00:11:33.270 --> 00:11:35.030
- well what do I command you to do?
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- To love one another.
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- You know, as people can embody that and see that
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- then we're into a different game.
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- - We're here in India outside the Mercy Home.
- 00:11:52.130 --> 00:11:54.280
- And the Mercy Home is where
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- Christians are taking people with mental illness
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- off the street and giving them an opportunity
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- for safety and a future.
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- It's another example of the Christian church
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- serving those in need.
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- A generation ago, Malcolm Muggeridge came here to India
- 00:12:06.290 --> 00:12:09.280
- and he met Mother Teresa.
- 00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:11.120
- Now, Malcolm Muggeridge was an internationally known
- 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.190
- journalist, an author, he was a skeptic,
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- he was a Communist sympathizer.
- 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:18.080
- When he came and saw the life and work of Mother Teresa,
- 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.050
- he was changed personally. In fact, he wrote that there are
- 00:12:22.050 --> 00:12:24.290
- no humanists in leprosarians.
- 00:12:24.290 --> 00:12:27.100
- In other words, the people motivated to help those in need
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- were actually Christian leaders.
- 00:12:30.220 --> 00:12:33.070
- Mother Teresa changed Malcolm Muggeridge's life.
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- It's an example about how the church
- 00:12:36.290 --> 00:12:39.120
- has cared for those in need.
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- We kinda think it's just basic,
- 00:12:42.180 --> 00:12:44.030
- that humanity just basically cares for people in need,
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- but that's not actually the case.
- 00:12:46.210 --> 00:12:48.210
- It's actually the teaching of Jesus and the early church
- 00:12:48.210 --> 00:12:52.150
- that helped humanity get a grip
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- to care for those who are marginalized,
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- the poor, and the most needy.
- 00:12:57.090 --> 00:12:59.120
- (contemplative music)
- 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:06.170
- So Jossy give me a picture of
- 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:12.030
- the vision for the ministry here in India.
- 00:13:12.030 --> 00:13:14.210
- - Our specific goal is to see 100.000
- 00:13:15.270 --> 00:13:19.090
- villages and communities being transformed in this way.
- 00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:22.140
- So far, we have about 19.000 villages and communities
- 00:13:23.260 --> 00:13:28.120
- being transformed by over seven and a half thousand
- 00:13:29.260 --> 00:13:32.290
- full time workers that is working with us.
- 00:13:32.290 --> 00:13:35.160
- And they're engaged in seeing churches planted
- 00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:39.040
- and schools established.
- 00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:42.030
- Orphans, widows cared for.
- 00:13:42.030 --> 00:13:44.070
- Young men and women given skills.
- 00:13:44.070 --> 00:13:46.260
- Prostitutes being rehabilitated and given new skills
- 00:13:46.260 --> 00:13:50.090
- in tailoring and embroidery.
- 00:13:50.090 --> 00:13:52.110
- And water wells being dug and toilets being built,
- 00:13:52.110 --> 00:13:56.140
- and clean up villages.
- 00:13:56.140 --> 00:13:58.170
- Particularly caring for mentally ill people.
- 00:13:58.170 --> 00:14:01.280
- In a holistic way, taking care of
- 00:14:01.280 --> 00:14:04.050
- every needs of the society.
- 00:14:04.050 --> 00:14:06.190
- Like in the book of Acts,
- 00:14:06.190 --> 00:14:08.000
- there was no needs among them.
- 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.060
- - [Interviewer] So Jossy, you grew up in India.
- 00:14:14.050 --> 00:14:15.290
- Tell us a little bit about
- 00:14:15.290 --> 00:14:17.060
- what life was like for you growing up.
- 00:14:17.060 --> 00:14:19.050
- - I grew up in southern India in a very remote village
- 00:14:19.050 --> 00:14:22.150
- on a dirt road with no names.
- 00:14:22.150 --> 00:14:25.020
- I was taken care of by my grandfather,
- 00:14:25.020 --> 00:14:27.010
- as my father had some mental illness.
- 00:14:27.010 --> 00:14:29.230
- And growing up with that kind of stigma,
- 00:14:29.230 --> 00:14:31.270
- people knew, you know you're the son of a crazy mad man.
- 00:14:31.270 --> 00:14:35.290
- And they would say you're going to be one of those,
- 00:14:35.290 --> 00:14:37.270
- and lots of bad nicknames and all of that.
- 00:14:37.270 --> 00:14:41.100
- So, from a young age my grandfather used to say,
- 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:44.090
- you know son you need to think about getting out of here.
- 00:14:44.090 --> 00:14:47.270
- - And, you ended up in Australia.
- 00:14:47.270 --> 00:14:49.280
- - Yeah.
- 00:14:49.280 --> 00:14:50.230
- I heard about this amazing country.
- 00:14:52.140 --> 00:14:54.200
- I wanted to be like my grandfather,
- 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:56.160
- you know, be a great successful businessman,
- 00:14:56.160 --> 00:14:59.160
- and thought that would be a great place to, you know,
- 00:14:59.160 --> 00:15:02.280
- start my dream.
- 00:15:02.280 --> 00:15:05.090
- So I convinced him to buy me a ticket.
- 00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:08.110
- He said he would buy only one way ticket,
- 00:15:08.110 --> 00:15:10.130
- because then the rest you have to make it on your own.
- 00:15:11.260 --> 00:15:14.050
- And I said, that's good enough.
- 00:15:14.050 --> 00:15:15.250
- So when I was about 17 I bought a one way ticket
- 00:15:15.250 --> 00:15:19.090
- and came to Australia with a big dream.
- 00:15:19.090 --> 00:15:22.090
- - When you were here, it took you awhile
- 00:15:22.090 --> 00:15:24.080
- to actually find something.
- 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:25.140
- You were close to starving, weren't you?
- 00:15:25.140 --> 00:15:27.200
- - Well, when I landed in Australia with this big dream
- 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:31.260
- and big ideas and had a guy that I was, you know,
- 00:15:31.260 --> 00:15:36.090
- connected in the business,
- 00:15:36.090 --> 00:15:37.150
- we had a business idea.
- 00:15:37.150 --> 00:15:38.290
- So invested the little money I had with him,
- 00:15:38.290 --> 00:15:41.280
- but then he went broke.
- 00:15:41.280 --> 00:15:43.110
- So then I had no friends, no family, no money,
- 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:47.100
- no ticket to return, and I was stuck.
- 00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:50.040
- And became very depressed,
- 00:15:50.040 --> 00:15:51.250
- suicidal thoughts started to come.
- 00:15:53.230 --> 00:15:57.020
- And then I decided to actually end my life
- 00:15:57.020 --> 00:15:59.070
- because you know coming home wasn't an option.
- 00:15:59.070 --> 00:16:02.030
- There was no point to live there.
- 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:05.070
- So I actually was on the top of a building,
- 00:16:06.180 --> 00:16:09.230
- in Perth, western Australia,
- 00:16:09.230 --> 00:16:11.180
- and decided I'm going to jump and die.
- 00:16:11.180 --> 00:16:14.090
- But before I did that, I knew about God,
- 00:16:17.140 --> 00:16:21.090
- that God was there,
- 00:16:21.090 --> 00:16:22.220
- but never really knew him personally.
- 00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:25.090
- So I decided to just cry out and say,
- 00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:27.120
- well if you are there, if you are real, this is your chance.
- 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:30.220
- And I'm so glad that I did that.
- 00:16:30.220 --> 00:16:32.180
- - Yeah.
- 00:16:32.180 --> 00:16:33.250
- What did you feel at that moment,
- 00:16:33.250 --> 00:16:34.230
- was there some presence of God?
- 00:16:34.230 --> 00:16:36.030
- - Initially I didn't feel anything.
- 00:16:36.030 --> 00:16:38.130
- I just simply looked up to the sky
- 00:16:38.130 --> 00:16:40.090
- and said if you are there, you know, help me,
- 00:16:40.090 --> 00:16:43.280
- this is your chance.
- 00:16:43.280 --> 00:16:45.100
- And then as I waited, something extraordinary happened.
- 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:48.170
- I was just so overpowered by this presence of God,
- 00:16:48.170 --> 00:16:52.290
- and then I fell down and went to this deep sleep
- 00:16:52.290 --> 00:16:55.220
- on the roof of this building.
- 00:16:55.220 --> 00:16:57.200
- I have no idea how long I slept for,
- 00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.190
- but when I woke up all that depressive
- 00:16:59.190 --> 00:17:03.070
- negative thought was gone.
- 00:17:03.070 --> 00:17:04.270
- And there was this unbelievable peace
- 00:17:04.270 --> 00:17:07.290
- and a sense that everything is going to be well.
- 00:17:07.290 --> 00:17:11.020
- And then I said, God I think you are there.
- 00:17:11.020 --> 00:17:15.190
- And I said, you can have me, I surrender my life to you.
- 00:17:17.030 --> 00:17:19.150
- - Wow.
- 00:17:19.150 --> 00:17:20.220
- - And I heard this little voice to say,
- 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:22.170
- son, you are mine.
- 00:17:22.170 --> 00:17:24.070
- - [Interviewer] Jossy it's great to have peace,
- 00:17:28.290 --> 00:17:30.110
- but you also needed a job.
- 00:17:30.110 --> 00:17:32.080
- - Yeah, absolutely, I mean.
- 00:17:32.080 --> 00:17:33.200
- - What happened?
- 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.020
- - I mean, incredibly for three months
- 00:17:35.020 --> 00:17:36.290
- I was searching for a job.
- 00:17:36.290 --> 00:17:38.130
- Anything, I mean you know, clean toilet,
- 00:17:38.130 --> 00:17:40.270
- serving restaurant, washing,
- 00:17:40.270 --> 00:17:42.160
- but I couldn't get anything.
- 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:44.050
- But that day I walked out of that building
- 00:17:44.050 --> 00:17:46.270
- and walked into a factory.
- 00:17:46.270 --> 00:17:49.230
- It's a very small little factory, knocked on the door,
- 00:17:49.230 --> 00:17:52.220
- and a man came out with his big mustache
- 00:17:52.220 --> 00:17:55.270
- and said my name is Claude,
- 00:17:55.270 --> 00:17:57.150
- and what can I do for you?
- 00:17:57.150 --> 00:17:58.200
- I said I need a job.
- 00:17:58.200 --> 00:17:59.260
- He said, come in.
- 00:17:59.260 --> 00:18:01.070
- And literally that day I got my job.
- 00:18:01.070 --> 00:18:04.070
- And that's the only job I've ever had in my life.
- 00:18:04.070 --> 00:18:06.240
- And it wasn't just even a job.
- 00:18:08.030 --> 00:18:09.200
- He really took me in as part of his family.
- 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:13.020
- - So you grew into the role, Jossy.
- 00:18:13.020 --> 00:18:15.050
- You started at the bottom, but you grew into the company.
- 00:18:15.050 --> 00:18:17.160
- - Yeah, absolutely.
- 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.020
- Initially my job was cleaning the floor of a blast freezer.
- 00:18:19.020 --> 00:18:22.010
- But then grew into supervisor and manager
- 00:18:23.050 --> 00:18:26.170
- and director and partner.
- 00:18:26.170 --> 00:18:28.030
- And I thought well, retire by the time I was 30 is my goal.
- 00:18:28.030 --> 00:18:32.060
- And finally we were able to do that.
- 00:18:32.060 --> 00:18:35.000
- So were looking at Tasmania
- 00:18:35.260 --> 00:18:38.000
- to have a hobby farm and raise my family
- 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.220
- and enjoy life, that was my dream.
- 00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:42.190
- - But you're nowhere near retirement, or Tasmania actually.
- 00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:45.280
- (laughing)
- 00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:47.120
- So what was the passion and vision for India,
- 00:18:47.120 --> 00:18:50.130
- how did that come?
- 00:18:50.130 --> 00:18:51.230
- - It wasn't so much about passion for India
- 00:18:51.230 --> 00:18:53.080
- but more about begin to ask me the question why I am here.
- 00:18:53.080 --> 00:18:56.170
- What is the purpose.
- 00:18:57.270 --> 00:18:59.280
- So God saved my life and you know
- 00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:02.200
- helped me with employment and money
- 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.240
- and now I go and live in the hobby farm
- 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.220
- and then die and go to heaven.
- 00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:09.210
- So what's the purpose of living life here?
- 00:19:09.210 --> 00:19:12.070
- And ultimately I found that purpose.
- 00:19:12.070 --> 00:19:16.270
- And that I had really two deep convictions.
- 00:19:16.270 --> 00:19:21.040
- One was that the purpose for any Christian
- 00:19:21.040 --> 00:19:23.180
- to live is to fulfill the Great Commission.
- 00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:26.240
- And second was that we must give the opportunity
- 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:31.140
- to share the Gospel with people who have never heard,
- 00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:34.240
- or at least an opportunity to hear.
- 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:36.130
- And the third is that we must help
- 00:19:36.130 --> 00:19:39.180
- those that are at the bottom
- 00:19:39.180 --> 00:19:41.220
- of the social economic chain.
- 00:19:41.220 --> 00:19:44.100
- And so when we looked around the world,
- 00:19:44.100 --> 00:19:46.100
- incredibly found that this part of the world
- 00:19:46.100 --> 00:19:49.150
- has the largest group of people
- 00:19:49.150 --> 00:19:50.270
- who never heard the Gospel.
- 00:19:50.270 --> 00:19:52.190
- Second, it has the largest poor people.
- 00:19:52.190 --> 00:19:55.160
- Six of the north India state
- 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:57.250
- has more poor people than all of Africa put together.
- 00:19:57.250 --> 00:20:01.170
- And then of course the car system
- 00:20:01.170 --> 00:20:03.210
- and you know electricity and the socioeconomic
- 00:20:04.270 --> 00:20:08.150
- and injustice that is taking place,
- 00:20:08.150 --> 00:20:10.280
- I felt compelled to do something about it.
- 00:20:10.280 --> 00:20:12.260
- And Paul says my ambition is to preach Christ
- 00:20:12.260 --> 00:20:16.040
- to those who have never heard it before.
- 00:20:16.040 --> 00:20:18.040
- And looking at the book of Acts and the early church,
- 00:20:18.040 --> 00:20:21.230
- you know they were sharing Gospel, making disciples,
- 00:20:21.230 --> 00:20:25.000
- and they were helping the widows and the orphans
- 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.000
- to such a level there was no needs among them.
- 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.090
- - So how did caring for anybody that was in any need
- 00:20:32.100 --> 00:20:35.140
- function in India when you have basic inequality.
- 00:20:35.140 --> 00:20:38.230
- So what would happen to someone in need in India.
- 00:20:38.230 --> 00:20:41.180
- - Well, hat's where the practical conflict
- 00:20:41.180 --> 00:20:44.210
- between the Gospel and the Hindu culture got going.
- 00:20:44.210 --> 00:20:49.040
- The iconic case is the widow burning.
- 00:20:49.040 --> 00:20:52.200
- That here is a young woman
- 00:20:53.170 --> 00:20:56.000
- that was one of my most important public fights in India.
- 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:59.120
- In 1987 an 18 year old widow in Rajasthan in Sikar
- 00:20:59.120 --> 00:21:04.140
- had committed sati, was forced to burn herself
- 00:21:05.190 --> 00:21:09.140
- on her husband's funeral fire.
- 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:12.060
- And I went there and investigated it
- 00:21:12.060 --> 00:21:14.180
- and wrote the story which published
- 00:21:14.180 --> 00:21:16.290
- in the Indian Express's front page story,
- 00:21:16.290 --> 00:21:20.270
- the revival of widow burning.
- 00:21:20.270 --> 00:21:22.280
- And we got, the media was supporting me.
- 00:21:22.280 --> 00:21:26.290
- So finally the government supported that program.
- 00:21:26.290 --> 00:21:30.110
- The interesting thing was while we were able to mobilize
- 00:21:30.110 --> 00:21:34.210
- 400 intellectuals, intelligentsia, feminists
- 00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:38.220
- here in Delhi to oppose widow burning,
- 00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:42.130
- the Hindu's in Rajasthan were able to mobilize
- 00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:47.040
- 200.000 people demanding that the ban on sati,
- 00:21:47.040 --> 00:21:51.200
- the ban on widow burning should be abolished.
- 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:54.080
- And we don't need to go into the details of that incident,
- 00:21:57.250 --> 00:22:01.020
- but that is just a case that
- 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:05.210
- Hinduism couldn't even care,
- 00:22:05.210 --> 00:22:08.200
- this is upper caste Hindus,
- 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:10.120
- they couldn't even care for a helpless widow.
- 00:22:10.120 --> 00:22:13.250
- She's just lost her husband,
- 00:22:13.250 --> 00:22:15.170
- she may have little children.
- 00:22:15.170 --> 00:22:17.270
- She needs all the love and support and care.
- 00:22:17.270 --> 00:22:20.280
- But you see her as a problem,
- 00:22:20.280 --> 00:22:23.160
- and you want to solve that problem
- 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:25.190
- by eliminating the problem.
- 00:22:25.190 --> 00:22:27.160
- Burn her.
- 00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:29.000
- So, there wasn't the culture of care and compassion,
- 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:33.230
- because when you don't affirm the intrinsic
- 00:22:33.230 --> 00:22:38.160
- dignity of every individual,
- 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.110
- the value of every individual.
- 00:22:42.020 --> 00:22:44.130
- And that problem is compounded by the fact
- 00:22:46.030 --> 00:22:50.090
- that when you believe in reincarnation,
- 00:22:50.090 --> 00:22:53.110
- you have trivialized death.
- 00:22:53.110 --> 00:22:55.220
- So when of our gods, (speaking in foreign language)
- 00:22:55.220 --> 00:22:59.140
- the sacred scripture he is saying
- 00:22:59.140 --> 00:23:02.040
- nobody dies, death is an illusion.
- 00:23:03.170 --> 00:23:07.010
- There was never a time when you were not there
- 00:23:07.010 --> 00:23:09.050
- and I wasn't there and
- 00:23:09.050 --> 00:23:10.210
- there will never be a time when we will not be there.
- 00:23:10.210 --> 00:23:12.280
- So, death is only changing clothes.
- 00:23:12.280 --> 00:23:15.240
- Like we change clothes, soul changes bodies.
- 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:20.160
- - Is there opposition to your groups
- 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:22.200
- and what you're trying to do in this area.
- 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.120
- - Unfortunately yes.
- 00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:27.160
- But, majority of the people are so supportive.
- 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:30.270
- I mean you know, we have Hindus, Muslims,
- 00:23:30.270 --> 00:23:33.190
- Sikhs and Jains and all people of other faiths
- 00:23:33.190 --> 00:23:37.000
- supporting financially and helping what we do.
- 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.070
- So, I think you know, we don't want to label
- 00:23:40.070 --> 00:23:43.170
- different religious groups or society in general.
- 00:23:43.170 --> 00:23:46.060
- But unfortunately there is right wing extreme groups
- 00:23:46.060 --> 00:23:50.260
- who are opposed to the kind of thing we are doing.
- 00:23:50.260 --> 00:23:54.240
- You know, including one of the schools that we had
- 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.260
- for educating some of the untouchable kids,
- 00:23:58.260 --> 00:24:02.290
- they tried to demolish it, a number of times.
- 00:24:02.290 --> 00:24:07.010
- The reason they do not want us to educate those kids.
- 00:24:07.010 --> 00:24:11.140
- Because if those kids get educated
- 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:13.130
- then they're going to have a better life and job.
- 00:24:13.130 --> 00:24:15.180
- They're not going to do those slave jobs anymore.
- 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:19.220
- In my own team we have thousands of people,
- 00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:22.190
- and they are all great game changers,
- 00:24:22.190 --> 00:24:26.130
- but in different ways.
- 00:24:26.130 --> 00:24:28.090
- Some are caring for the kids
- 00:24:28.090 --> 00:24:30.080
- and some are doing the cleaning.
- 00:24:30.080 --> 00:24:32.090
- I believe that all of us care.
- 00:24:32.090 --> 00:24:34.070
- Praying for others, giving our resources,
- 00:24:35.170 --> 00:24:38.260
- loving our neighbor, helping those people
- 00:24:38.260 --> 00:24:41.060
- that you see in your daily life.
- 00:24:41.060 --> 00:24:43.170
- To me, it's more than the actions, it's a mindset.
- 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.040
- It's really seeing ourselves differently
- 00:24:49.080 --> 00:24:52.010
- and seeing our purpose of this life differently.
- 00:24:52.010 --> 00:24:54.270
- It doesn't matter who you are, young to the old.
- 00:24:54.270 --> 00:24:57.150
- If you are breathing, you can be a game changer.
- 00:24:57.150 --> 00:25:00.100
- It's pulling me out
- 00:25:02.080 --> 00:25:05.010
- (upbeat music)
- 00:25:05.010 --> 00:25:07.190