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Praise

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February 7, 2017
57:39

Matt & Laurie Crouch host 'The Shack' with William Paul Young.

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Praise

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  • - female announcer: Tonight
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  • from Big Sky, Montana,
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  • "New York Times'"
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  • bestselling author, Paul Young.
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • - Matt Crouch: The "Praise"
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  • program comes to you from
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  • I cannot believe what you're
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  • about to see and I can't believe
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  • what we're going to
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  • get to tell you about today
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  • on the "Praise" program.
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  • Behind us over there
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  • in the field is a shack.
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  • Sitting with us is
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  • the author of "The Shack."
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  • Paul, that's not
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  • a swarm of bees.
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  • That's actually a drone.
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  • And Paul, "The Shack"
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  • is a phenomenon.
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  • Let's just kinda--
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  • - Paul Young: An unexpected
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  • phenomenon.
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  • - Matt: Let's just start with
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  • a phenomenon.
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  • Twenty million books sold
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  • worldwide.
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  • We have 50 languages now.
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  • And a lot of people know
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  • the story of "The Shack."
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  • We're gonna get to know a little
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  • but I think the biggest thing
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  • that we have, the biggest
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  • announcement we have, is that
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  • we have the brand new series
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  • in production right here in
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  • Big Sky, Montana.
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  • Behind us this way
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  • Behind us this way
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  • - Paul: Hi, my name is
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  • Paul Young,
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  • author of "The Shack."
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  • Maybe you've read this book and
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  • you have some questions or would
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  • like to know some of
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  • the background.
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  • Maybe you've only heard about it
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  • and you have some questions.
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  • Either way, I'd love to invite
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  • you to come on the adventure of
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  • "The Shack."
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  • - Paul: This is a book that
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  • allows us to explore
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  • relationship with the Father,
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  • Son, and Holy Spirit.
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  • It allows us to explore what it
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  • means to be human.
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  • The questions that we have about
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  • hurt and loss and grief,
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  • questions about wonder and
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  • beauty and joy, and who am I in
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  • relationship to this God?
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  • Is this God a relational being
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  • or just an idea?
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  • And what difference does it
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  • make?
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  • The story is powerful.
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  • We know that.
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  • We can feel it.
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  • I think we have an affinity for
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  • story because every single
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  • human being is a story.
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  • You don't just have one.
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  • You are one.
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  • So in this series, you're gonna
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  • learn a lot about me.
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  • You're gonna learn a lot about
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  • Mackenzie and the shack and
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  • I promise that I will be
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  • honest with you.
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  • - Paul: It turns out that my
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  • journey has been about learning
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  • how to trust.
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  • - Paul: We all, as human
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  • beings, have lots of questions.
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  • What's our origin?
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  • What's our destiny?
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  • What matters?
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  • Questions about God, questions
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  • about faith.
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  • - Paul: These are the questions
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  • that we wanna explore.
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  • And I would love you to come
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  • with me.
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  • This is an invitation
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  • This is an invitation
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  • - Matt: You're gonna have to
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  • explain what's going on, what
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  • - Paul: We have been shooting
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  • the story itself.
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  • Where did it come from, because
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  • a lot of people wanna know.
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  • Like you had said, it's a
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  • phenomenon and nobody
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  • anticipated that it was coming.
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  • I surely didn't.
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  • My family didn't,
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  • my friends didn't.
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  • The publishers didn't.
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  • It was a--it just showed up and
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  • became this wildfire.
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  • But it came from somewhere.
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  • And so the questions are where?
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  • And then, if you've read "The
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  • Shack," you know that there are
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  • lots of conversations about
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  • things that matter to us as
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  • human beings, whether it's
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  • grief, losses of any kind, abuse
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  • in our histories, our family
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  • dysfunctions, social issues,
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  • questions about God.
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  • Is God someone that we can
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  • actually trust?
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  • Because a lot of times, religion
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  • has not portrayed God in a way
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  • Is God a relational being?
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  • What do we do about the
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  • tragedies that are in our
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  • humanity?
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  • Not just that we perpetrate one
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  • and another, but also that seem
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  • to visit us regularly.
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  • We all deal with loss.
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  • In this world, we have all these
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  • divisions, right?
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  • Political, social, religious,
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  • cultural, economic,
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  • but we share love and loss.
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  • And both of those things we have
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  • in common with every single
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  • person we will meet.
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  • And if you haven't experienced
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  • loss yet, you just wait 'cause
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  • it's coming.
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  • So is loss necessary?
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  • Has God planned evil?
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  • What do we do about judgment and
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  • wrath and how do we deal with a
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  • God who is love and what does
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  • that love look like?
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  • All of these kinds of questions,
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  • huge questions, are involved in
  • 00:05:59.050 --> 00:06:01.000
  • these episodes as we unfold it
  • 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.180
  • inside my story and inside
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  • this book called "The Shack."
  • 00:06:04.210 --> 00:06:07.210
  • - Matt: We are in Montana.
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  • This is one of the most
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  • beautiful locations.
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  • We call it Big Sky, Montana.
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  • Sitting with us, Paul Young,
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  • the author of "The Shack."
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  • The brand new television series
  • 00:06:22.100 --> 00:06:23.280
  • is underway.
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  • Every day, this ginormous crew
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  • and a bunch of cameras and
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  • shooting in 4K and, you know,
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  • all of the amazing technical
  • 00:06:33.210 --> 00:06:36.110
  • things that are going into but
  • 00:06:36.110 --> 00:06:38.080
  • really what's happening here is
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  • you're going into a new medium.
  • 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:41.210
  • You are comfortable in your pen
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  • to paper or fingers to
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  • typewriter or, you know,
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  • keyboard.
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  • You know, you're used to that,
  • 00:06:51.200 --> 00:06:54.140
  • you know, feeling.
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  • You're an author.
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  • You're, you know, 25 million
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  • books sold.
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  • - Paul: You know, I didn't
  • 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:02.100
  • intend to be an author.
  • 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:03.150
  • I was a writer.
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  • But who knew about the author
  • 00:07:04.220 --> 00:07:06.000
  • part?
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  • So it's--yeah.
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  • - Matt: Okay, but 25 million
  • 00:07:07.180 --> 00:07:08.200
  • books later, that means you're
  • 00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:09.160
  • an author, okay?
  • 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:10.190
  • So that's the definition.
  • 00:07:10.190 --> 00:07:11.250
  • And let me just say that
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  • ultimately what we're really
  • 00:07:13.250 --> 00:07:15.140
  • doing is you're unpacking now a
  • 00:07:15.140 --> 00:07:17.230
  • brand new level of communication
  • 00:07:18.170 --> 00:07:21.170
  • in regard to the very simple
  • 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:24.080
  • thing.
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  • You were a broken person and now
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  • you're not a broken person.
  • 00:07:27.250 --> 00:07:30.080
  • And an encounter
  • 00:07:30.080 --> 00:07:31.170
  • with the Father, the Son, and
  • 00:07:31.170 --> 00:07:33.140
  • the difference in Paul Young.
  • 00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:37.140
  • That's what you're talking about
  • 00:07:37.140 --> 00:07:39.030
  • in 25 episodes.
  • 00:07:39.030 --> 00:07:40.180
  • - Paul: And what better place
  • 00:07:40.180 --> 00:07:42.070
  • to do it than on Trinity
  • 00:07:42.070 --> 00:07:43.280
  • - Paul: It's impossible to
  • 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:51.070
  • apprehend God, to comprehend
  • 00:07:51.070 --> 00:07:53.100
  • God.
  • 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:54.220
  • Especially not directly.
  • 00:07:54.220 --> 00:07:56.100
  • A lot of times, we've tried
  • 00:07:56.100 --> 00:07:59.050
  • to do it with our minds
  • 00:07:59.050 --> 00:08:00.150
  • and our rationality.
  • 00:08:00.150 --> 00:08:01.260
  • It's not that this is mindless,
  • 00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:03.130
  • but the best way to comprehend
  • 00:08:03.290 --> 00:08:06.290
  • the character and nature of God
  • 00:08:06.290 --> 00:08:09.040
  • is through metaphor and story.
  • 00:08:11.150 --> 00:08:14.150
  • It meets us as a whole person.
  • 00:08:14.150 --> 00:08:15.230
  • This is the metaphor of
  • 00:08:15.230 --> 00:08:17.150
  • "The Shack."
  • 00:08:17.150 --> 00:08:19.030
  • Our parents impact our theology.
  • 00:08:19.030 --> 00:08:21.280
  • Our theology, then, reparents
  • 00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:23.240
  • us.
  • 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:25.040
  • "The Shack" is the house on the
  • 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:26.210
  • inside that people help you
  • 00:08:26.210 --> 00:08:29.170
  • build.
  • 00:08:29.170 --> 00:08:30.230
  • And some of you, you got good
  • 00:08:30.230 --> 00:08:33.030
  • help.
  • 00:08:33.030 --> 00:08:34.100
  • You had parents who were present
  • 00:08:34.100 --> 00:08:35.170
  • and wanted to love you and did
  • 00:08:35.170 --> 00:08:37.290
  • and encouraged you and affirmed
  • 00:08:37.290 --> 00:08:40.020
  • you.
  • 00:08:40.020 --> 00:08:41.020
  • So some of the inside house for
  • 00:08:41.020 --> 00:08:43.160
  • some of us are habitable places
  • 00:08:43.160 --> 00:08:45.250
  • but, for a lot of us, it's just
  • 00:08:45.250 --> 00:08:48.100
  • a shack.
  • 00:08:48.100 --> 00:08:49.240
  • And that shack is the house that
  • 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:52.070
  • is our soul.
  • 00:08:52.070 --> 00:08:54.060
  • It is our heart.
  • 00:08:54.060 --> 00:08:56.040
  • And for some of us, it's broken.
  • 00:08:57.170 --> 00:09:00.190
  • - Laurie Crouch: Years ago,
  • 00:09:00.190 --> 00:09:01.170
  • after you wrote "The Shack" you
  • 00:09:01.170 --> 00:09:02.150
  • came onto TBN with us on the
  • 00:09:02.150 --> 00:09:04.240
  • "Praise the Lord" program and
  • 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.180
  • I'll never forget it because I
  • 00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:08.030
  • think you remember me grabbing
  • 00:09:08.030 --> 00:09:09.260
  • you by the shirt and just
  • 00:09:09.260 --> 00:09:11.180
  • saying, "We have got to do
  • 00:09:11.180 --> 00:09:13.180
  • something together.
  • 00:09:13.180 --> 00:09:14.270
  • And do--take who you are, how
  • 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:20.080
  • you can describe and how you can
  • 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:23.200
  • communicate to an audience, to a
  • 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.250
  • person's soul, and get you with
  • 00:09:25.250 --> 00:09:27.280
  • a microphone and let you--
  • 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.120
  • - Matt: And a camera.
  • 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:32.250
  • - Laurie: I told my mom
  • 00:09:32.250 --> 00:09:33.200
  • today--yeah, I told my mom
  • 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:34.140
  • today, I said, "You know, I just
  • 00:09:34.140 --> 00:09:35.140
  • sitting with him, he can fix
  • 00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:39.080
  • it," you know?
  • 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:40.230
  • You've just got such--
  • 00:09:40.230 --> 00:09:41.280
  • - Paul: I don't fix anything.
  • 00:09:41.280 --> 00:09:42.230
  • Just so you--
  • 00:09:42.230 --> 00:09:43.180
  • - Laurie: I know, but you've
  • 00:09:43.180 --> 00:09:44.090
  • got a way to fix it 'cause I--
  • 00:09:44.090 --> 00:09:45.090
  • - Paul: I got a way to talk
  • 00:09:45.090 --> 00:09:46.040
  • about it.
  • 00:09:46.040 --> 00:09:46.240
  • - Laurie: You've got a way to
  • 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:47.170
  • talk about it.
  • 00:09:47.170 --> 00:09:48.070
  • And that normally is--can fix
  • 00:09:48.070 --> 00:09:49.170
  • somebody.
  • 00:09:49.170 --> 00:09:51.030
  • But I'm so excited about this.
  • 00:09:51.030 --> 00:09:52.240
  • This is just gonna change
  • 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:54.130
  • people's lives.
  • 00:09:54.130 --> 00:09:55.160
  • - Matt: What we're talking
  • 00:09:55.160 --> 00:09:56.160
  • about is a brand new television
  • 00:09:56.160 --> 00:09:57.120
  • series.
  • 00:09:57.120 --> 00:09:58.100
  • It's in production.
  • 00:09:58.100 --> 00:09:59.130
  • We're in Montana.
  • 00:09:59.130 --> 00:10:00.170
  • It is in connection with
  • 00:10:00.170 --> 00:10:02.120
  • Lionsgate in regard to
  • 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:04.080
  • the feature motion picture
  • 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.080
  • This is a big project.
  • 00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:09.280
  • And it is 20 million books and a
  • 00:10:09.280 --> 00:10:11.270
  • theatrical motion picture that
  • 00:10:11.270 --> 00:10:14.090
  • really is a study in how a
  • 00:10:14.220 --> 00:10:17.220
  • broken person can be fixed.
  • 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:20.160
  • That's really what we're talking
  • 00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:22.070
  • about.
  • 00:10:22.070 --> 00:10:23.020
  • - Paul: How we come to
  • 00:10:23.020 --> 00:10:23.210
  • wholeness, yes.
  • 00:10:23.210 --> 00:10:24.150
  • - Matt: Let me just tell you
  • 00:10:24.150 --> 00:10:25.130
  • how excited we are.
  • 00:10:25.130 --> 00:10:26.190
  • We are sitting with Paul Young,
  • 00:10:26.190 --> 00:10:28.110
  • the author of "The Shack."
  • 00:10:28.110 --> 00:10:30.080
  • The announcement about today is
  • 00:10:30.210 --> 00:10:33.210
  • brand new episodes are underway.
  • 00:10:35.020 --> 00:10:38.020
  • Laurie and I flew up here.
  • 00:10:38.020 --> 00:10:39.190
  • We commandeered him.
  • 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:41.230
  • We threw him in this chair.
  • 00:10:41.230 --> 00:10:43.020
  • Paul, tell me about what's going
  • 00:10:43.020 --> 00:10:45.270
  • on here in Montana.
  • 00:10:45.270 --> 00:10:47.250
  • - Paul: We, together with this
  • 00:10:47.250 --> 00:10:50.130
  • amazing group of artists and
  • 00:10:52.070 --> 00:10:55.070
  • technicians and people who know
  • 00:10:55.110 --> 00:10:58.110
  • what they're doing, got together
  • 00:10:58.110 --> 00:10:59.270
  • and we're making episodes for
  • 00:11:00.110 --> 00:11:03.110
  • TBN.
  • 00:11:03.110 --> 00:11:04.160
  • It's centered on "The Shack" but
  • 00:11:04.160 --> 00:11:07.070
  • my story, the story behind the
  • 00:11:07.070 --> 00:11:08.270
  • story, and on the love of the
  • 00:11:08.270 --> 00:11:11.250
  • Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
  • 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:13.140
  • - Matt: Wow, you know, when you
  • 00:11:13.140 --> 00:11:15.130
  • take the idea of what "The
  • 00:11:15.130 --> 00:11:17.240
  • Shack" is and, you know, there's
  • 00:11:18.030 --> 00:11:21.030
  • a macro and a micro way of, you
  • 00:11:21.030 --> 00:11:23.250
  • know, looking at this and when
  • 00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:25.220
  • it really--when you really boil
  • 00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:27.200
  • core, there was a broken person
  • 00:11:31.090 --> 00:11:34.090
  • in the book, Mackenzie,
  • 00:11:34.090 --> 00:11:36.030
  • you know.
  • 00:11:36.030 --> 00:11:37.010
  • I don't know how often you
  • 00:11:37.010 --> 00:11:38.270
  • identify with Mackenzie or if
  • 00:11:38.270 --> 00:11:40.210
  • Mackenzie was you or, you know,
  • 00:11:40.210 --> 00:11:42.040
  • or you're kind of Mackenzie or
  • 00:11:42.040 --> 00:11:44.070
  • is a real human being.
  • 00:11:47.130 --> 00:11:49.010
  • He's sitting right here.
  • 00:11:49.010 --> 00:11:50.050
  • We're in Montana together.
  • 00:11:50.050 --> 00:11:51.240
  • But in the fictionalized
  • 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:54.050
  • account, there was a broken
  • 00:11:54.050 --> 00:11:55.230
  • person.
  • 00:11:55.230 --> 00:11:57.070
  • Paul, you were a broken person.
  • 00:11:57.070 --> 00:11:59.080
  • Okay, there's a common thread
  • 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:01.090
  • there with Mackenzie but you
  • 00:12:01.090 --> 00:12:03.140
  • about an encounter where God,
  • 00:12:05.160 --> 00:12:07.250
  • the heavenly Father, creator
  • 00:12:07.250 --> 00:12:09.270
  • of the heavens and the earth, an
  • 00:12:09.270 --> 00:12:11.250
  • encounter with Jesus, his Son,
  • 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:15.120
  • and an encounter with the
  • 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.060
  • Holy Spirit took a broken person
  • 00:12:18.010 --> 00:12:21.010
  • and made them a whole person.
  • 00:12:21.090 --> 00:12:24.090
  • Okay, that's really what this
  • 00:12:24.090 --> 00:12:25.170
  • this series to accomplish in the
  • 00:12:27.250 --> 00:12:29.140
  • lives of millions around the
  • 00:12:29.140 --> 00:12:30.250
  • world.
  • 00:12:30.250 --> 00:12:31.150
  • - Paul: Absolutely.
  • 00:12:31.150 --> 00:12:32.090
  • "The Shack," you can read it
  • 00:12:32.090 --> 00:12:34.010
  • just as a story but it
  • 00:12:34.010 --> 00:12:35.210
  • represents the house on the
  • 00:12:35.210 --> 00:12:37.260
  • inside, the shack itself.
  • 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:40.040
  • And the house on the inside for
  • 00:12:40.040 --> 00:12:41.230
  • a lot of us is a broken place.
  • 00:12:41.230 --> 00:12:43.230
  • Now, we didn't get a lot of good
  • 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:45.150
  • help building it, you know.
  • 00:12:45.150 --> 00:12:47.090
  • Some people, thank God, have a
  • 00:12:47.090 --> 00:12:49.060
  • house of a soul and a heart
  • 00:12:49.060 --> 00:12:51.260
  • that's pretty together and
  • 00:12:51.260 --> 00:12:53.110
  • pretty whole.
  • 00:12:53.110 --> 00:12:54.100
  • They had the right kind of
  • 00:12:54.100 --> 00:12:55.240
  • affirmation, the right kind of
  • 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:57.020
  • encouragement, the right kind of
  • 00:12:57.020 --> 00:12:58.080
  • love.
  • 00:12:58.080 --> 00:12:59.170
  • To focus on them and allow them
  • 00:12:59.170 --> 00:13:02.050
  • to grow and blossom, a lot of
  • 00:13:02.050 --> 00:13:03.150
  • us, we didn't get that.
  • 00:13:03.150 --> 00:13:04.290
  • And people helped us build that
  • 00:13:04.290 --> 00:13:07.100
  • house and it becomes the place
  • 00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:08.220
  • then we store all of our
  • 00:13:08.220 --> 00:13:10.120
  • addictions, we hide all our
  • 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:11.210
  • secrets.
  • 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:12.180
  • Becomes a place of shame.
  • 00:13:12.180 --> 00:13:14.180
  • We never want another human
  • 00:13:14.180 --> 00:13:16.140
  • being to ever come into that
  • 00:13:16.140 --> 00:13:17.270
  • place because we're afraid that
  • 00:13:17.270 --> 00:13:19.150
  • they're gonna hate it as much as
  • 00:13:19.150 --> 00:13:21.120
  • we do.
  • 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.150
  • And so we then create something
  • 00:13:22.150 --> 00:13:24.110
  • outside.
  • 00:13:24.110 --> 00:13:25.070
  • We don't wanna go back there.
  • 00:13:25.070 --> 00:13:26.170
  • And the invitation to Mackenzie
  • 00:13:26.170 --> 00:13:27.250
  • is to actually go back into the
  • 00:13:27.250 --> 00:13:29.170
  • place of his loss and it's the
  • 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.000
  • metaphor for that.
  • 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:34.190
  • And I think that human beings
  • 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.240
  • have related to the story.
  • 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:39.170
  • I mean, I wrote the story for my
  • 00:13:39.170 --> 00:13:41.160
  • own children to try to explain
  • 00:13:41.160 --> 00:13:43.200
  • to them, let me tell you about
  • 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:45.220
  • the God who actually showed up
  • 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:48.030
  • and healed my heart.
  • 00:13:48.030 --> 00:13:49.190
  • Not the God I grew up with.
  • 00:13:49.190 --> 00:13:51.060
  • And I'm a missionary kid and a
  • 00:13:51.060 --> 00:13:52.120
  • preacher's kid, evangelical,
  • 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.030
  • fundamental, right?
  • 00:13:54.030 --> 00:13:55.210
  • But I didn't grow up with the
  • 00:13:55.210 --> 00:13:56.170
  • God that shows up in "The
  • 00:13:56.170 --> 00:13:57.170
  • Shack."
  • 00:13:57.170 --> 00:13:58.290
  • - Paul: Another great sadness
  • 00:13:58.290 --> 00:14:01.010
  • for me began before I even went
  • 00:14:01.230 --> 00:14:04.230
  • to boarding school.
  • 00:14:04.230 --> 00:14:06.200
  • Sexual abuse started for me
  • 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.230
  • inside the tribal culture,
  • 00:14:08.230 --> 00:14:10.260
  • inside what I considered my own
  • 00:14:10.260 --> 00:14:11.260
  • family, and before I was 5 years
  • 00:14:12.190 --> 00:14:15.190
  • old.
  • 00:14:15.190 --> 00:14:17.000
  • There is nothing that destroys
  • 00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:20.280
  • and dismantles the soul of a
  • 00:14:20.280 --> 00:14:22.230
  • human being like sexual abuse.
  • 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:26.240
  • I get to boarding school at age
  • 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.170
  • 6 and the first nights the big
  • 00:14:28.170 --> 00:14:30.030
  • boys would come at night and
  • 00:14:30.030 --> 00:14:32.140
  • molest the little boys.
  • 00:14:32.140 --> 00:14:34.160
  • That became just part of my
  • 00:14:34.160 --> 00:14:36.010
  • world and I just shut down.
  • 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:40.000
  • I needed to perform.
  • 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:41.160
  • I needed to be acceptable.
  • 00:14:43.130 --> 00:14:46.130
  • I knew, even at 5, something was
  • 00:14:46.130 --> 00:14:48.180
  • wrong.
  • 00:14:48.180 --> 00:14:49.220
  • And even by 6, it had been so
  • 00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:51.230
  • dominant that I was to some
  • 00:14:51.230 --> 00:14:54.140
  • degree already a predator.
  • 00:14:54.280 --> 00:14:57.280
  • You can twist the heart of a
  • 00:14:57.280 --> 00:15:00.130
  • child.
  • 00:15:00.130 --> 00:15:02.040
  • Great sadness.
  • 00:15:02.040 --> 00:15:04.180
  • Sexual abuse, my relationship
  • 00:15:04.180 --> 00:15:06.230
  • with my dad.
  • 00:15:06.230 --> 00:15:08.060
  • So what did I do?
  • 00:15:08.060 --> 00:15:09.160
  • Firstborn missionary kid,
  • 00:15:09.160 --> 00:15:11.150
  • preacher's kid, I became a
  • 00:15:11.150 --> 00:15:13.210
  • performer.
  • 00:15:13.210 --> 00:15:15.230
  • This is why religion was
  • 00:15:15.230 --> 00:15:16.200
  • attractive to me.
  • 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.060
  • It could give me a list of rules
  • 00:15:18.060 --> 00:15:20.000
  • that if I could just do those
  • 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.020
  • things, maybe I could win the
  • 00:15:21.020 --> 00:15:23.080
  • affection of my father.
  • 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:26.000
  • Maybe I could win the affection
  • 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:27.220
  • of God.
  • 00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:29.100
  • And here's what I did.
  • 00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:30.290
  • I hated the shack.
  • 00:15:30.290 --> 00:15:32.170
  • I hated this person.
  • 00:15:32.170 --> 00:15:34.130
  • And so I drug some pieces of
  • 00:15:34.130 --> 00:15:37.060
  • wood from my own shack and I
  • 00:15:37.060 --> 00:15:38.280
  • built a façade about 100 yards
  • 00:15:38.280 --> 00:15:40.200
  • out.
  • 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:42.100
  • You know, a façade, they use it
  • 00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:43.250
  • in movies to kind of fake that
  • 00:15:43.250 --> 00:15:45.120
  • there's a real building there,
  • 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.000
  • but it's a 1/4-inch piece of
  • 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:48.070
  • plywood.
  • 00:15:48.070 --> 00:15:49.200
  • But the thing about a façade is
  • 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.040
  • you can paint it as fast as you
  • 00:15:51.040 --> 00:15:53.000
  • can pick up people's
  • 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.080
  • expectations.
  • 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:56.080
  • And so I became a different
  • 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:57.080
  • thing in every different
  • 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:58.120
  • situation.
  • 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.040
  • But it didn't protect me from
  • 00:16:00.040 --> 00:16:02.020
  • the addictions.
  • 00:16:02.020 --> 00:16:03.290
  • They still went on.
  • 00:16:03.290 --> 00:16:05.250
  • It didn't protect me from the
  • 00:16:06.020 --> 00:16:09.020
  • secrets.
  • 00:16:09.020 --> 00:16:11.020
  • The façade was my presentation
  • 00:16:11.020 --> 00:16:12.280
  • to the world and I was
  • 00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:14.040
  • a different thing depending
  • 00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:15.210
  • on what audience was in
  • 00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:16.250
  • front of me.
  • 00:16:16.250 --> 00:16:17.250
  • See, I didn't know how to live
  • 00:16:17.250 --> 00:16:18.220
  • from the inside out.
  • 00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:20.030
  • Life became about living
  • 00:16:20.030 --> 00:16:21.080
  • from the outside in.
  • 00:16:21.170 --> 00:16:24.170
  • And I worked at it hard.
  • 00:16:24.170 --> 00:16:26.040
  • I had this thin layer of
  • 00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:27.230
  • perfectionist performance that
  • 00:16:27.230 --> 00:16:30.080
  • covered up this ocean of shame.
  • 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.110
  • And I was hoping if I could just
  • 00:16:32.140 --> 00:16:35.140
  • do this right, if I could just
  • 00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:39.250
  • perform perfectly, maybe one day
  • 00:16:40.270 --> 00:16:43.270
  • I could become a real boy.
  • 00:16:46.170 --> 00:16:49.170
  • We are as sick as the secrets we
  • 00:16:49.170 --> 00:16:52.050
  • keep.
  • 00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:55.090
  • And my shack was full of them.
  • 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:58.250
  • And so when somebody comes into
  • 00:16:58.250 --> 00:17:00.130
  • our life and they offer us
  • 00:17:00.130 --> 00:17:02.000
  • kindness and goodness and grace
  • 00:17:03.010 --> 00:17:06.010
  • and forgiveness, we don't
  • 00:17:06.010 --> 00:17:08.260
  • believe them because they don't
  • 00:17:09.090 --> 00:17:12.090
  • know our secrets.
  • 00:17:12.090 --> 00:17:14.170
  • So we're absolutely trapped.
  • 00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:17.100
  • We can't tell you because you're
  • 00:17:17.100 --> 00:17:18.200
  • gonna think that I am exactly
  • 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:21.140
  • what I already believe: I'm a
  • 00:17:21.140 --> 00:17:23.230
  • worthless piece of nothingness.
  • 00:17:24.260 --> 00:17:27.260
  • But when you offer me something
  • 00:17:27.260 --> 00:17:30.060
  • that might keep me alive, I
  • 00:17:30.060 --> 00:17:31.240
  • don't believe you because you
  • 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:34.130
  • don't know my secrets.
  • 00:17:34.130 --> 00:17:36.230
  • This is the shack.
  • 00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:39.130
  • This is the façade.
  • 00:17:39.130 --> 00:17:40.240
  • And the thing about healing is
  • 00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:43.250
  • that you have to go back to the
  • 00:17:43.250 --> 00:17:46.030
  • shack.
  • 00:17:46.030 --> 00:17:47.120
  • You have to find out that God is
  • 00:17:47.120 --> 00:17:50.100
  • in that place and not in the
  • 00:17:50.100 --> 00:17:52.160
  • façade.
  • 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.080
  • We are as sick as the secrets we
  • 00:17:54.210 --> 00:17:57.210
  • keep.
  • 00:17:57.210 --> 00:17:59.160
  • We have to deal with our broken
  • 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.130
  • hearts.
  • 00:18:01.130 --> 00:18:03.160
  • If we wanna become real human
  • 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:04.270
  • beings, you can't go around
  • 00:18:04.270 --> 00:18:07.190
  • the shack.
  • 00:18:07.190 --> 00:18:08.290
  • You have to go into it.
  • 00:18:11.110 --> 00:18:14.110
  • - Laurie: Okay, I love the
  • 00:18:14.110 --> 00:18:16.000
  • story from the beginning of--the
  • 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.220
  • whole story about even writing
  • 00:18:19.060 --> 00:18:22.060
  • the book.
  • 00:18:22.060 --> 00:18:23.120
  • Do you just share a little bit
  • 00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:24.150
  • about that in your life and just
  • 00:18:24.150 --> 00:18:26.060
  • kinda tell us what your
  • 00:18:26.060 --> 00:18:27.070
  • situation was at the time that
  • 00:18:27.070 --> 00:18:29.020
  • you wrote the book.
  • 00:18:29.020 --> 00:18:30.000
  • - Paul: My journey has been a
  • 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.280
  • life-long one of learning how to
  • 00:18:31.280 --> 00:18:33.010
  • be comfortable in my own skin,
  • 00:18:33.010 --> 00:18:34.290
  • right?
  • 00:18:34.290 --> 00:18:35.270
  • Which--you have to deal with
  • 00:18:35.270 --> 00:18:37.230
  • your stuff.
  • 00:18:37.230 --> 00:18:38.280
  • we don't come into this
  • 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.030
  • with our eyes wide open
  • 00:18:44.030 --> 00:18:45.070
  • or our heart open.
  • 00:18:45.070 --> 00:18:46.290
  • We're self-protective,
  • 00:18:46.290 --> 00:18:48.000
  • we're survivors of one sort
  • 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.050
  • or another.
  • 00:18:50.050 --> 00:18:51.070
  • And I took that into our
  • 00:18:51.070 --> 00:18:53.000
  • marriage, I took it into my
  • 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:54.150
  • relationship with my kids.
  • 00:18:54.150 --> 00:18:56.010
  • And over the years, through
  • 00:18:56.010 --> 00:18:58.230
  • major crisis, actually, and
  • 00:18:58.230 --> 00:19:01.130
  • a lot of it brought on myself
  • 00:19:05.150 --> 00:19:07.110
  • by secrets and keeping things
  • 00:19:07.110 --> 00:19:09.200
  • inside and not opening up, went
  • 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.090
  • through a period of our lives
  • 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:14.100
  • where it was either find a way
  • 00:19:15.050 --> 00:19:18.050
  • to change or it was over.
  • 00:19:18.170 --> 00:19:21.170
  • I wasn't gonna deal with it
  • 00:19:21.170 --> 00:19:23.140
  • anymore 'cause I couldn't take
  • 00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:24.250
  • the risk that I would ever hurt
  • 00:19:24.250 --> 00:19:26.200
  • more people the way I already
  • 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:27.260
  • had.
  • 00:19:27.260 --> 00:19:29.000
  • And thank God that I married Kim
  • 00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:32.190
  • because she saved my life, and
  • 00:19:32.190 --> 00:19:34.190
  • she paid a high price for it.
  • 00:19:34.190 --> 00:19:36.250
  • But she saved my life.
  • 00:19:36.250 --> 00:19:38.260
  • - Matt: Are you willing to make
  • 00:19:39.040 --> 00:19:42.040
  • the declarative statement that
  • 00:19:42.040 --> 00:19:44.270
  • short of having an encounter
  • 00:19:45.150 --> 00:19:48.150
  • with God the Father, Jesus his
  • 00:19:48.150 --> 00:19:51.010
  • Son, and the Holy Spirit, you
  • 00:19:51.010 --> 00:19:53.100
  • would have ended your life?
  • 00:19:53.100 --> 00:19:55.220
  • Is that how desperate and broken
  • 00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:57.080
  • you were?
  • 00:19:57.080 --> 00:19:58.120
  • - Paul: Yeah, I can make an
  • 00:19:58.120 --> 00:20:00.090
  • absolute declarative statement
  • 00:20:00.090 --> 00:20:02.000
  • and say, "If something didn't
  • 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.060
  • change, it was over."
  • 00:20:04.060 --> 00:20:07.000
  • And that change involved
  • 00:20:07.050 --> 00:20:10.050
  • my relationship with God.
  • 00:20:10.050 --> 00:20:12.090
  • And actually, the idea of the
  • 00:20:12.090 --> 00:20:14.280
  • shack is you go into it and then
  • 00:20:14.280 --> 00:20:16.220
  • you dismantle it right down
  • 00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:17.250
  • to the bare bottom.
  • 00:20:18.190 --> 00:20:21.190
  • And then you begin to
  • 00:20:21.190 --> 00:20:23.140
  • reconstruct it.
  • 00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:24.180
  • So everything that I believed
  • 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:25.230
  • about God had to be
  • 00:20:25.230 --> 00:20:27.120
  • re-evaluated.
  • 00:20:27.120 --> 00:20:29.230
  • And a lot of it fell away.
  • 00:20:29.230 --> 00:20:32.160
  • But I was split between my head
  • 00:20:33.010 --> 00:20:36.010
  • and my heart and I lived in my
  • 00:20:36.010 --> 00:20:38.080
  • head because my heart was
  • 00:20:38.080 --> 00:20:39.150
  • broken.
  • 00:20:39.150 --> 00:20:40.140
  • And the shack represents that
  • 00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:41.200
  • broken heart.
  • 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:42.280
  • And it takes crisis to drive the
  • 00:20:42.280 --> 00:20:45.220
  • cross to connect the head and
  • 00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:48.000
  • the heart.
  • 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.000
  • And a long time of work.
  • 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.230
  • I worked hard at finding my way
  • 00:20:51.290 --> 00:20:54.290
  • through this.
  • 00:20:54.290 --> 00:20:55.210
  • I went to a therapist who became
  • 00:20:55.210 --> 00:20:57.200
  • my friend, Scott Mitchell.
  • 00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.160
  • Mackenzie spends a weekend in
  • 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:02.060
  • the shack that, basically,
  • 00:21:02.060 --> 00:21:03.160
  • represents an 11-year process
  • 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:05.250
  • for me.
  • 00:21:05.250 --> 00:21:07.110
  • And but, you know, I'm writing a
  • 00:21:07.110 --> 00:21:08.240
  • story for my kids.
  • 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:09.240
  • I don't wanna write an 11-year
  • 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.050
  • book, you know, "War and Peace
  • 00:21:12.050 --> 00:21:14.010
  • in Oregon" or something, you
  • 00:21:14.010 --> 00:21:15.090
  • know.
  • 00:21:15.090 --> 00:21:16.020
  • So when I wrote that book I was
  • 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:19.200
  • turning 50 years old and I think
  • 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.180
  • this is part of what you were
  • 00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:23.200
  • talking about, Laurie.
  • 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:25.010
  • And that is we, in 2004, we had
  • 00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:28.140
  • lost everything pretty much
  • 00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:29.210
  • materially and that was part of
  • 00:21:29.210 --> 00:21:30.280
  • the healing process, believe it
  • 00:21:30.280 --> 00:21:33.000
  • or not.
  • 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:34.050
  • Because slowly, as God dealt
  • 00:21:34.050 --> 00:21:36.180
  • with me, we went to deeper areas
  • 00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.240
  • where I needed to be in control
  • 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.180
  • and had the choice to then
  • 00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:42.050
  • begin to trust.
  • 00:21:42.050 --> 00:21:43.060
  • And the issue of financial
  • 00:21:43.060 --> 00:21:44.030
  • insecurity is a huge one and one
  • 00:21:44.030 --> 00:21:45.050
  • of the last big major fears
  • 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.200
  • in my life.
  • 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:49.290
  • When I talk about the
  • 00:21:49.290 --> 00:21:50.250
  • reconstruction of the shack, I'm
  • 00:21:50.250 --> 00:21:52.230
  • talking about the major work.
  • 00:21:52.230 --> 00:21:54.260
  • There's lots of finish work
  • 00:21:54.260 --> 00:21:57.020
  • that'll take, like, forever.
  • 00:21:57.020 --> 00:21:58.120
  • But the big pieces were done.
  • 00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:01.160
  • And Kim had been asking me
  • 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:03.180
  • if I'd write a--something.
  • 00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:04.290
  • She said, "Would you just write
  • 00:22:04.290 --> 00:22:06.160
  • something as a gift for our kids
  • 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:08.080
  • that puts it in one place how
  • 00:22:08.080 --> 00:22:09.210
  • you think?
  • 00:22:09.210 --> 00:22:10.290
  • Because you think outside
  • 00:22:10.290 --> 00:22:12.090
  • the box."
  • 00:22:12.090 --> 00:22:12.290
  • And I think part of that
  • 00:22:12.290 --> 00:22:14.260
  • is growing up in the mission
  • 00:22:14.260 --> 00:22:15.270
  • field in a different culture.
  • 00:22:15.270 --> 00:22:17.100
  • And I didn't feel ready to do
  • 00:22:17.260 --> 00:22:20.260
  • that until the year I turned 50,
  • 00:22:20.260 --> 00:22:23.180
  • until my 11-year switch.
  • 00:22:24.140 --> 00:22:27.140
  • And, going into it, I didn't
  • 00:22:27.140 --> 00:22:28.290
  • know if it was 11 years or 6
  • 00:22:28.290 --> 00:22:31.000
  • months or--who knows the mystery
  • 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:33.250
  • of the healing process for an
  • 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:35.020
  • individual human being?
  • 00:22:35.020 --> 00:22:36.230
  • Only God.
  • 00:22:36.230 --> 00:22:37.180
  • And that's the point of the
  • 00:22:37.180 --> 00:22:38.180
  • encounter.
  • 00:22:38.180 --> 00:22:39.120
  • That God has to be in the middle
  • 00:22:39.120 --> 00:22:41.040
  • of this because God's the only
  • 00:22:41.040 --> 00:22:43.260
  • one who knows what a magnificent
  • 00:22:43.260 --> 00:22:46.000
  • human being you really are and
  • 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:47.280
  • the damage that's impacted that
  • 00:22:52.030 --> 00:22:53.280
  • person.
  • 00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:55.120
  • So I was working three jobs.
  • 00:22:55.230 --> 00:22:58.230
  • We were living in a little
  • 00:22:58.230 --> 00:23:00.090
  • rental house in Gresham, Oregon.
  • 00:23:00.090 --> 00:23:02.030
  • Kim got a job at the high school
  • 00:23:02.030 --> 00:23:03.200
  • bakery.
  • 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:04.260
  • But we had everything that
  • 00:23:08.050 --> 00:23:09.190
  • mattered.
  • 00:23:09.190 --> 00:23:10.240
  • And it was during this period of
  • 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:12.110
  • time that we learned that the
  • 00:23:12.110 --> 00:23:14.220
  • opposite of more is enough.
  • 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:16.160
  • And we had enough.
  • 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.140
  • And so on the train to one of my
  • 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:19.240
  • three jobs, I finally felt
  • 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:22.050
  • healthy enough as a human being
  • 00:23:22.050 --> 00:23:23.260
  • to write something for the kids.
  • 00:23:23.260 --> 00:23:26.210
  • They love story 'cause who
  • 00:23:26.210 --> 00:23:28.100
  • doesn't?
  • 00:23:28.100 --> 00:23:29.130
  • Story touches us because we are
  • 00:23:29.130 --> 00:23:32.010
  • all each a story.
  • 00:23:32.010 --> 00:23:34.110
  • And so I wrote most of "The
  • 00:23:34.110 --> 00:23:37.080
  • Shack" on the train, 40 minutes
  • 00:23:37.080 --> 00:23:39.100
  • one way, 40 minutes the other
  • 00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:40.200
  • way, to 1 of those 3 jobs.
  • 00:23:40.250 --> 00:23:43.250
  • And I got it done for Christmas
  • 00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:45.190
  • and I got some money at
  • 00:23:45.190 --> 00:23:47.240
  • Christmas.
  • 00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:49.180
  • And I went down to Office Depot
  • 00:23:49.180 --> 00:23:50.270
  • and on the photocopier made 15
  • 00:23:50.270 --> 00:23:52.260
  • copies with a little plastic
  • 00:23:52.260 --> 00:23:54.070
  • cover, a little spiral-bound.
  • 00:23:54.070 --> 00:23:56.210
  • And at Christmas I--actually,
  • 00:23:56.210 --> 00:23:58.250
  • just after Christmas, I gave six
  • 00:23:58.250 --> 00:24:01.230
  • copies to the kids.
  • 00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:03.020
  • Kim got a copy.
  • 00:24:03.020 --> 00:24:04.230
  • Had some extras I gave to my
  • 00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:05.260
  • friends.
  • 00:24:05.260 --> 00:24:06.220
  • And I went back to work.
  • 00:24:06.220 --> 00:24:08.040
  • Not one time in that entire
  • 00:24:08.040 --> 00:24:09.270
  • process did I think about
  • 00:24:09.270 --> 00:24:12.160
  • publishing it 'cause I don't
  • 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:13.270
  • know anything about publishing.
  • 00:24:13.270 --> 00:24:15.050
  • And so it was, like, all right.
  • 00:24:15.050 --> 00:24:16.280
  • And those 15 copies did
  • 00:24:16.280 --> 00:24:19.160
  • everything I ever wanted that
  • 00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:21.290
  • book to do.
  • 00:24:21.290 --> 00:24:23.100
  • And all the rest of this,
  • 00:24:23.100 --> 00:24:24.240
  • totally God's sense of humor.
  • 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.050
  • - Laurie: Isn't that something?
  • 00:24:27.050 --> 00:24:28.100
  • Okay, so how did that--okay, so
  • 00:24:28.100 --> 00:24:29.170
  • you give it to the kids.
  • 00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:31.050
  • Were they, like, going, "Dad,
  • 00:24:31.050 --> 00:24:32.080
  • you've gotta publish this book?"
  • 00:24:32.080 --> 00:24:34.120
  • I mean--
  • 00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:35.000
  • - Paul: No.
  • 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:35.160
  • - Laurie: No?
  • 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:36.010
  • Okay, how did that--
  • 00:24:36.010 --> 00:24:36.170
  • - Paul: No, you give it to your
  • 00:24:36.170 --> 00:24:37.090
  • kids and they go, "Oh, thanks,
  • 00:24:37.090 --> 00:24:38.270
  • Dad, a book."
  • 00:24:38.270 --> 00:24:40.010
  • - Laurie: "Oh, I gotta read
  • 00:24:40.010 --> 00:24:40.230
  • it."
  • 00:24:40.230 --> 00:24:41.120
  • - Paul: "We'll get right on
  • 00:24:41.120 --> 00:24:42.030
  • that."
  • 00:24:42.030 --> 00:24:43.070
  • So it took them a while.
  • 00:24:43.070 --> 00:24:44.290
  • It took Kim a while to read it.
  • 00:24:44.290 --> 00:24:46.210
  • But my friends started reading
  • 00:24:46.210 --> 00:24:48.150
  • it and they started giving it to
  • 00:24:48.150 --> 00:24:49.160
  • their friends who gave it to
  • 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:50.160
  • their friends.
  • 00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:51.170
  • And we pooled some money and
  • 00:24:51.170 --> 00:24:53.240
  • made 15 more copies at Office
  • 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:54.290
  • Depot.
  • 00:24:54.290 --> 00:24:55.240
  • And then it started to just
  • 00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:57.180
  • spill out.
  • 00:24:57.180 --> 00:24:58.230
  • And I start getting e-mails from
  • 00:24:58.230 --> 00:25:01.110
  • people I don't know who are
  • 00:25:01.110 --> 00:25:03.190
  • reading this spiral-bound little
  • 00:25:03.190 --> 00:25:04.230
  • manuscript and they're going,
  • 00:25:04.230 --> 00:25:06.240
  • like, "This is changing my
  • 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.010
  • world.
  • 00:25:09.010 --> 00:25:10.040
  • You know, this is a completely
  • 00:25:10.040 --> 00:25:11.270
  • different representation of the
  • 00:25:11.270 --> 00:25:13.260
  • character and nature of God than
  • 00:25:13.260 --> 00:25:15.130
  • I've ever heard or grown up
  • 00:25:15.130 --> 00:25:17.130
  • with.
  • 00:25:17.130 --> 00:25:18.120
  • And do you really believe
  • 00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:21.050
  • that God is this good?"
  • 00:25:21.050 --> 00:25:23.260
  • And I would say, "I've written
  • 00:25:23.270 --> 00:25:26.270
  • God as good as I know how and
  • 00:25:26.270 --> 00:25:28.190
  • it's just scraping the surface."
  • 00:25:28.190 --> 00:25:31.050
  • - Matt: Beautiful, wow.
  • 00:25:31.050 --> 00:25:33.180
  • - Paul: In the course of this
  • 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:35.010
  • series, you're gonna learn a lot
  • 00:25:35.010 --> 00:25:36.260
  • about me.
  • 00:25:36.260 --> 00:25:38.100
  • You're gonna learn a lot about
  • 00:25:38.100 --> 00:25:39.010
  • Mackenzie and the characters in
  • 00:25:39.010 --> 00:25:41.170
  • "The Shack" but I promise to be
  • 00:25:41.170 --> 00:25:44.140
  • honest with you about my
  • 00:25:44.140 --> 00:25:45.220
  • history, the good and the bad
  • 00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:49.180
  • and the ugly.
  • 00:25:49.180 --> 00:25:51.110
  • I wrote a little book for my
  • 00:25:51.110 --> 00:25:52.100
  • kids for Christmas, "The Shack."
  • 00:25:52.100 --> 00:25:55.050
  • Who knew?
  • 00:25:55.050 --> 00:25:57.090
  • I didn't, my family didn't,
  • 00:25:57.090 --> 00:25:59.130
  • nobody did.
  • 00:25:59.130 --> 00:26:01.000
  • And it became a centerpiece for
  • 00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:03.090
  • a massive conversation.
  • 00:26:03.090 --> 00:26:05.220
  • And one of the privileges that
  • 00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:06.270
  • I've gotten as a result is
  • 00:26:06.270 --> 00:26:08.060
  • invitation into bigger
  • 00:26:08.060 --> 00:26:10.130
  • conversations.
  • 00:26:10.130 --> 00:26:11.280
  • The book has crossed every kind
  • 00:26:11.280 --> 00:26:13.050
  • of barrier and boundary you can
  • 00:26:13.050 --> 00:26:14.240
  • imagine.
  • 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:16.030
  • And it's given me the
  • 00:26:16.030 --> 00:26:17.170
  • opportunity to travel and to
  • 00:26:17.170 --> 00:26:19.080
  • listen to people's stories.
  • 00:26:19.080 --> 00:26:21.170
  • Let me say this.
  • 00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:23.190
  • I think we are on the cusp of a
  • 00:26:23.190 --> 00:26:25.290
  • reformation.
  • 00:26:25.290 --> 00:26:27.140
  • Not just a revival where we're
  • 00:26:27.140 --> 00:26:29.220
  • trying to put life into old
  • 00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:31.120
  • systems and institutions, but a
  • 00:26:31.120 --> 00:26:33.180
  • massive change in the way we
  • 00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:35.270
  • think as a human race.
  • 00:26:36.030 --> 00:26:39.030
  • We have to find a way forward.
  • 00:26:39.030 --> 00:26:42.030
  • And I think it's centered right
  • 00:26:42.030 --> 00:26:44.140
  • in the relationship of the
  • 00:26:44.140 --> 00:26:45.270
  • Father, Son, and the Holy
  • 00:26:45.270 --> 00:26:46.200
  • Spirit.
  • 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:47.260
  • - Matt: If you just tuned in,
  • 00:26:47.260 --> 00:26:49.170
  • we are in Big Sky, Montana and
  • 00:26:50.210 --> 00:26:53.210
  • we're sitting with Paul Young.
  • 00:26:53.210 --> 00:26:55.040
  • We're on set, basically, of the
  • 00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:58.180
  • brand new television series
  • 00:26:58.180 --> 00:27:01.020
  • called simply "The Shack."
  • 00:27:01.170 --> 00:27:04.170
  • And what we're going to be doing
  • 00:27:04.170 --> 00:27:07.090
  • today and what we want to do, we
  • 00:27:07.090 --> 00:27:10.030
  • wanna get into more of unpacking
  • 00:27:10.030 --> 00:27:13.030
  • this and Paul Young
  • 00:27:13.030 --> 00:27:15.030
  • is our guest today.
  • 00:27:15.030 --> 00:27:16.110
  • And if you wanna just look this
  • 00:27:16.110 --> 00:27:17.240
  • way, that's actually a shack
  • 00:27:17.270 --> 00:27:20.270
  • back there.
  • 00:27:20.270 --> 00:27:21.260
  • We're on set.
  • 00:27:24.100 --> 00:27:25.270
  • New television series, new TV
  • 00:27:25.270 --> 00:27:28.220
  • programs, are coming.
  • 00:27:28.220 --> 00:27:30.140
  • And one of the things that we
  • 00:27:30.140 --> 00:27:31.280
  • wanna say is that this is also
  • 00:27:31.280 --> 00:27:34.140
  • in association with Lionsgate
  • 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:37.120
  • because a brand new feature
  • 00:27:37.120 --> 00:27:39.280
  • motion picture entitled "The
  • 00:27:39.280 --> 00:27:41.170
  • Shack" is coming in March of
  • 00:27:41.170 --> 00:27:44.110
  • - Nan Phillips: Car leaves in
  • 00:27:46.150 --> 00:27:48.040
  • 20 seconds.
  • 00:27:48.040 --> 00:27:49.200
  • - Mack Phillips: We gotta go,
  • 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:50.110
  • you little rascal.
  • 00:27:50.110 --> 00:27:52.230
  • - Missy Phillips: Do you think
  • 00:27:52.230 --> 00:27:53.150
  • the princess should have a red
  • 00:27:53.150 --> 00:27:54.060
  • dress like mine?
  • 00:27:54.060 --> 00:27:55.240
  • - Mack: Red it is.
  • 00:27:56.050 --> 00:27:59.050
  • - girl: Where's Missy?
  • 00:27:59.050 --> 00:28:00.120
  • - Mack: Missy!
  • 00:28:00.120 --> 00:28:02.230
  • - Mack: Where's Missy?
  • 00:28:02.230 --> 00:28:03.180
  • - male: Sorry, mate, they
  • 00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:05.080
  • haven't seen her.
  • 00:28:05.080 --> 00:28:05.290
  • - Mack: Missy!
  • 00:28:05.290 --> 00:28:06.170
  • Missy!
  • 00:28:06.170 --> 00:28:08.190
  • - [police sirens]
  • 00:28:08.190 --> 00:28:09.160
  • - Nan: So scared.
  • 00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:10.260
  • - Mack: I just don'tá know what
  • 00:28:10.260 --> 00:28:11.180
  • to do.
  • 00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:12.090
  • - male: possible suspect
  • 00:28:12.090 --> 00:28:12.280
  • sighting.
  • 00:28:12.280 --> 00:28:13.100
  • - male: Ground team's found a
  • 00:28:13.100 --> 00:28:14.100
  • track in the mountains.
  • 00:28:14.100 --> 00:28:16.070
  • - male: I'm really sorry,
  • 00:28:16.070 --> 00:28:17.000
  • Mr. Phillips.
  • 00:28:17.140 --> 00:28:20.140
  • - Mack: Aghhh!
  • 00:28:21.210 --> 00:28:24.210
  • - male: You want some help
  • 00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:26.040
  • over there?
  • 00:28:26.040 --> 00:28:27.010
  • - Mack: I'm okay.
  • 00:28:27.010 --> 00:28:28.130
  • - male: How about some dinner
  • 00:28:28.130 --> 00:28:29.040
  • tonight?
  • 00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:29.220
  • - Mack: Maybe next time.
  • 00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:31.100
  • - Mack: Aghhh!
  • 00:28:31.100 --> 00:28:33.170
  • I'm so--I'm so sorry.
  • 00:28:34.060 --> 00:28:37.060
  • - Nan: We've lost so much
  • 00:28:37.060 --> 00:28:37.250
  • already.
  • 00:28:37.250 --> 00:28:39.040
  • I don't wanna lose you too.
  • 00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:42.160
  • - Mack: The letter showed up
  • 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:43.150
  • in my mailbox with no tracks
  • 00:28:43.150 --> 00:28:45.030
  • in the snow.
  • 00:28:45.030 --> 00:28:45.290
  • - male: You're not thinking
  • 00:28:45.290 --> 00:28:46.190
  • about going back there, are you?
  • 00:28:46.190 --> 00:28:47.270
  • - Mack: I've got to do
  • 00:28:47.270 --> 00:28:48.150
  • something.
  • 00:28:48.150 --> 00:28:49.060
  • - male: You know this isn't
  • 00:28:49.060 --> 00:28:49.260
  • a good idea?
  • 00:28:49.260 --> 00:28:50.220
  • - Mack: It's crazy but this
  • 00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:51.290
  • is all I got.
  • 00:28:52.210 --> 00:28:55.210
  • - Jesus: I got a fire going
  • 00:28:55.210 --> 00:28:57.000
  • inside if you wanna warm up.
  • 00:28:58.260 --> 00:29:01.280
  • - Elouisa: Mackenzie Allen
  • 00:29:01.280 --> 00:29:04.040
  • Phillips, I've been looking
  • 00:29:04.040 --> 00:29:06.030
  • forward to this.
  • 00:29:06.030 --> 00:29:07.170
  • - Mack: Do I know you?
  • 00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:08.150
  • - Elouisa: Not very well.
  • 00:29:08.150 --> 00:29:09.180
  • But we can work on that.
  • 00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:11.260
  • - Mack: This is incredible.
  • 00:29:11.260 --> 00:29:13.240
  • - female: You still having
  • 00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:14.160
  • a hard time believing this
  • 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:15.100
  • is real?
  • 00:29:15.100 --> 00:29:16.070
  • - Mack: Why did you bring me
  • 00:29:16.070 --> 00:29:17.000
  • here?
  • 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:17.230
  • - Elouisa: There is no easy
  • 00:29:17.230 --> 00:29:18.130
  • answer that'll take your pain
  • 00:29:18.130 --> 00:29:19.050
  • away.
  • 00:29:19.050 --> 00:29:20.080
  • - Mack: Where were you when
  • 00:29:20.080 --> 00:29:21.080
  • I needed you?
  • 00:29:21.080 --> 00:29:22.160
  • - Elouisa: I never left you.
  • 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.210
  • I never left Missy.
  • 00:29:23.210 --> 00:29:24.270
  • Ain't it just like a tear,
  • 00:29:24.270 --> 00:29:27.010
  • to go and blur
  • 00:29:27.010 --> 00:29:28.160
  • - Mack: You want me to forgive
  • 00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:29.100
  • him.
  • 00:29:29.100 --> 00:29:30.010
  • I want him to hurt like he hurt
  • 00:29:30.010 --> 00:29:31.170
  • me.
  • 00:29:31.170 --> 00:29:33.010
  • - female: You want the promise
  • 00:29:33.010 --> 00:29:34.020
  • of a pain-free life?
  • 00:29:34.020 --> 00:29:35.270
  • - Mack: Yeah.
  • 00:29:35.270 --> 00:29:37.050
  • - female: There isn't one.
  • 00:29:37.050 --> 00:29:39.250
  • - Jesus: You can do this.
  • 00:29:39.250 --> 00:29:41.040
  • - Mack: I can't.
  • 00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:41.270
  • - Jesus: Not on your own, you
  • 00:29:41.270 --> 00:29:42.250
  • can't.
  • 00:29:42.250 --> 00:29:43.290
  • - Elouisa: This is your flying
  • 00:29:43.290 --> 00:29:44.240
  • lesson.
  • 00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:45.160
  • Turn your eyes on me when
  • 00:29:47.050 --> 00:29:50.050
  • you can't find your way home
  • 00:29:50.050 --> 00:29:51.250
  • Keep your eyes on me.
  • 00:29:55.210 --> 00:29:58.210
  • - Nan: I believe you.
  • 00:29:58.210 --> 00:29:59.290
  • Keep your eyes on me.
  • 00:30:01.260 --> 00:30:04.260
  • Keep your eyes on me.
  • 00:30:04.260 --> 00:30:07.100
  • - Matt: Lionsgate did something
  • 00:30:07.100 --> 00:30:08.270
  • that we're still a little bit
  • 00:30:08.270 --> 00:30:10.140
  • shocked by.
  • 00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:11.220
  • This is the new poster.
  • 00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:13.250
  • It'll start popping up in all
  • 00:30:13.250 --> 00:30:15.060
  • theaters around.
  • 00:30:15.060 --> 00:30:16.260
  • This is a major motion picture
  • 00:30:16.260 --> 00:30:19.030
  • produced by major veteran,
  • 00:30:19.030 --> 00:30:21.170
  • Gil Netter, producer.
  • 00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:24.070
  • I mean, Sam--Sam is, you know,
  • 00:30:24.070 --> 00:30:26.200
  • Worthington--
  • 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:27.250
  • - Paul: Sam Worthington.
  • 00:30:27.250 --> 00:30:28.150
  • - Matt: Was in that little
  • 00:30:28.150 --> 00:30:30.200
  • movie called "Avatar," okay?
  • 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.180
  • That little--remember the little
  • 00:30:32.180 --> 00:30:33.160
  • movie called "Avatar," and
  • 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:35.000
  • Octavia was in "The Help."
  • 00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:37.210
  • So this is a major
  • 00:30:37.210 --> 00:30:39.250
  • motion picture written
  • 00:30:39.250 --> 00:30:41.080
  • about a book that sold
  • 00:30:41.080 --> 00:30:43.100
  • 20 million copies plus it's
  • 00:30:43.180 --> 00:30:46.180
  • published in 50 languages.
  • 00:30:46.180 --> 00:30:49.180
  • And sitting with us today, on
  • 00:30:49.180 --> 00:30:51.100
  • set of "The Shack" here in
  • 00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:53.260
  • Montana, Paul Young.
  • 00:30:53.260 --> 00:30:56.160
  • - Laurie: Okay, I have a
  • 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:57.050
  • question.
  • 00:30:57.050 --> 00:30:58.000
  • - Matt: Yes, fire away.
  • 00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.000
  • - Laurie: When they--when you
  • 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:01.010
  • knew that the book was gonna be
  • 00:31:01.010 --> 00:31:02.150
  • published, did you kind of freak
  • 00:31:02.250 --> 00:31:05.250
  • out and go, "Okay, hold up.
  • 00:31:05.250 --> 00:31:07.090
  • I've gotta change some things
  • 00:31:07.090 --> 00:31:08.270
  • or--"
  • 00:31:08.270 --> 00:31:10.040
  • - Paul: No, that's not how it
  • 00:31:10.040 --> 00:31:10.250
  • happened.
  • 00:31:10.250 --> 00:31:11.100
  • - Laurie: Okay, how did it
  • 00:31:11.100 --> 00:31:12.000
  • happen?
  • 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:12.170
  • - Paul: What happened is that
  • 00:31:12.170 --> 00:31:13.130
  • it ended up in the hands of some
  • 00:31:13.130 --> 00:31:15.000
  • guys in California who thought,
  • 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.240
  • "This could be a movie."
  • 00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:19.210
  • And so I had a conversation with
  • 00:31:19.210 --> 00:31:22.010
  • Wayne Jacobsen, Brad Cummings,
  • 00:31:22.010 --> 00:31:24.190
  • and Bobby Downes about that
  • 00:31:24.190 --> 00:31:26.080
  • possibility.
  • 00:31:26.080 --> 00:31:27.140
  • That's the first time anything
  • 00:31:27.140 --> 00:31:29.210
  • came up about actually putting
  • 00:31:29.210 --> 00:31:30.250
  • it into print.
  • 00:31:30.250 --> 00:31:32.160
  • the time is that if you can sell
  • 00:31:35.290 --> 00:31:37.160
  • a novel and sell about 100.000
  • 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.050
  • copies, Hollywood will come
  • 00:31:40.050 --> 00:31:41.250
  • talk to you about a movie.
  • 00:31:41.250 --> 00:31:43.000
  • time was that the average novel
  • 00:31:45.060 --> 00:31:47.000
  • that is published domestically,
  • 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:49.080
  • US/Canada, sells between 3.000
  • 00:31:49.080 --> 00:31:51.240
  • and 5.000 copies its entire
  • 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:53.250
  • existence.
  • 00:31:53.250 --> 00:31:54.200
  • In fact, if you can write a
  • 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:55.220
  • novel and sell 7500 copies, you
  • 00:31:55.220 --> 00:31:58.080
  • have a bona fide bestseller.
  • 00:31:58.080 --> 00:32:00.220
  • - Laurie: Oh, my goodness.
  • 00:32:00.220 --> 00:32:01.160
  • - Paul: Yeah, I had no clue.
  • 00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:02.220
  • Ninety-three percent of all
  • 00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.040
  • books published this year will
  • 00:32:04.040 --> 00:32:05.100
  • be out of print in two years.
  • 00:32:05.100 --> 00:32:07.010
  • - Laurie: Oh my goodness.
  • 00:32:07.010 --> 00:32:08.020
  • - Paul: So--I know!
  • 00:32:08.020 --> 00:32:08.190
  • And less than 4% of all books
  • 00:32:08.190 --> 00:32:09.290
  • including textbooks and computer
  • 00:32:09.290 --> 00:32:12.150
  • manuals and all of that ever
  • 00:32:12.150 --> 00:32:15.060
  • makes it to 100.000.
  • 00:32:15.060 --> 00:32:17.030
  • So I don't know any of that.
  • 00:32:17.030 --> 00:32:19.140
  • I just know that, all right,
  • 00:32:19.140 --> 00:32:21.090
  • there's more people than that in
  • 00:32:21.090 --> 00:32:22.240
  • Portland.
  • 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:23.200
  • I mean, this can't be that hard.
  • 00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.210
  • I'm totally naïve, right?
  • 00:32:25.210 --> 00:32:27.140
  • And but we start talking about
  • 00:32:27.140 --> 00:32:29.100
  • it and it seemed to be a good
  • 00:32:29.100 --> 00:32:31.050
  • idea that we should put it in
  • 00:32:31.050 --> 00:32:32.210
  • print.
  • 00:32:32.210 --> 00:32:33.240
  • So it takes about a year and a
  • 00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.060
  • half and that's when the editing
  • 00:32:35.060 --> 00:32:36.120
  • process took place.
  • 00:32:36.120 --> 00:32:38.150
  • And Wayne Jacobsen really helped
  • 00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:40.210
  • me work on the arc line of the
  • 00:32:40.210 --> 00:32:43.140
  • story.
  • 00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:44.070
  • Brad ended up volunteered to
  • 00:32:44.070 --> 00:32:46.210
  • ship books out of his house at
  • 00:32:46.210 --> 00:32:47.210
  • night, eventually, because he
  • 00:32:47.210 --> 00:32:49.130
  • was putting in people's
  • 00:32:49.130 --> 00:32:50.240
  • sprinkler systems during the
  • 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:51.230
  • day.
  • 00:32:51.230 --> 00:32:52.150
  • And so here comes this piece of
  • 00:32:53.280 --> 00:32:56.280
  • work that is ready to be
  • 00:32:56.280 --> 00:32:59.070
  • published.
  • 00:32:59.070 --> 00:32:59.250
  • We sent it to 26 publishers,
  • 00:32:59.250 --> 00:33:01.150
  • half of them faith-based, half
  • 00:33:01.150 --> 00:33:03.280
  • of them secular.
  • 00:33:03.280 --> 00:33:05.120
  • All of 'em turned it down,
  • 00:33:05.120 --> 00:33:06.160
  • right?
  • 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:08.050
  • - Matt: A zilch.
  • 00:33:08.050 --> 00:33:09.020
  • - Paul: Well, they had a
  • 00:33:09.020 --> 00:33:10.100
  • problem with it.
  • 00:33:10.100 --> 00:33:11.090
  • Both, in common, had a problem
  • 00:33:11.090 --> 00:33:13.110
  • that they didn't know what genre
  • 00:33:13.110 --> 00:33:14.150
  • it was.
  • 00:33:14.150 --> 00:33:15.210
  • They couldn't figure out where
  • 00:33:15.210 --> 00:33:16.160
  • to put this thing.
  • 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:17.160
  • I can understand that.
  • 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.050
  • The thing they had different,
  • 00:33:19.050 --> 00:33:21.010
  • the faith-based people, the
  • 00:33:21.010 --> 00:33:22.270
  • Christian publishers, thought it
  • 00:33:22.270 --> 00:33:24.240
  • was too edgy, and the secular
  • 00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:26.260
  • people thought it had too much
  • 00:33:26.260 --> 00:33:27.280
  • Jesus in it.
  • 00:33:27.280 --> 00:33:29.090
  • And by the way, when it
  • 00:33:29.090 --> 00:33:31.040
  • eventually got into print, Kim
  • 00:33:31.040 --> 00:33:33.200
  • says, "You know when I asked you
  • 00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:34.250
  • to do this, I was thinking,
  • 00:33:34.250 --> 00:33:36.000
  • like, four to six pages."
  • 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.170
  • - Laurie: [laughing]
  • 00:33:37.170 --> 00:33:38.250
  • Great!
  • 00:33:38.250 --> 00:33:39.180
  • - Paul: Well, I'm thinking, "If
  • 00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:40.210
  • I take Jesus out, maybe I can
  • 00:33:40.210 --> 00:33:42.030
  • get it down to four to six
  • 00:33:42.030 --> 00:33:43.010
  • pages, right?
  • 00:33:43.010 --> 00:33:44.150
  • So but here's the deal.
  • 00:33:44.260 --> 00:33:47.260
  • I had no expectations from the
  • 00:33:47.260 --> 00:33:50.100
  • beginning that this would ever
  • 00:33:50.100 --> 00:33:52.060
  • be published and I'd be a
  • 00:33:52.060 --> 00:33:53.210
  • published author, right?
  • 00:33:53.210 --> 00:33:55.040
  • And I didn't pick up that
  • 00:33:55.040 --> 00:33:56.080
  • expectation along the way.
  • 00:33:56.080 --> 00:33:57.270
  • So when anything went sideways
  • 00:33:57.270 --> 00:34:00.160
  • or unexpected, I'm going, like,
  • 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.080
  • "All right, it really doesn't
  • 00:34:03.080 --> 00:34:05.040
  • bother me."
  • 00:34:05.040 --> 00:34:05.220
  • So I'm--I've learned
  • 00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:08.140
  • finally, at my age, to live
  • 00:34:08.140 --> 00:34:10.230
  • inside the grace of just 1 day.
  • 00:34:10.230 --> 00:34:12.270
  • And that included this whole
  • 00:34:12.270 --> 00:34:13.220
  • process.
  • 00:34:13.220 --> 00:34:15.000
  • And so when we got to the place
  • 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.140
  • where nobody would publish it,
  • 00:34:17.140 --> 00:34:20.030
  • that's when I asked,
  • 00:34:20.030 --> 00:34:22.140
  • "How hard is it to publish?"
  • 00:34:22.140 --> 00:34:23.250
  • And so Brad and Wayne created a
  • 00:34:23.250 --> 00:34:25.050
  • publishing company that is
  • 00:34:25.050 --> 00:34:26.160
  • theirs in order just to publish
  • 00:34:26.160 --> 00:34:29.150
  • "The Shack."
  • 00:34:29.150 --> 00:34:30.110
  • And the three of us pooled
  • 00:34:30.110 --> 00:34:31.140
  • our money.
  • 00:34:31.140 --> 00:34:32.020
  • I had a friend in Oregon
  • 00:34:32.020 --> 00:34:32.270
  • who'd loan me some money.
  • 00:34:32.270 --> 00:34:34.100
  • One of 'em had savings, the
  • 00:34:34.100 --> 00:34:35.060
  • other one had a Visa and a
  • 00:34:35.060 --> 00:34:36.020
  • Mastercard.
  • 00:34:36.020 --> 00:34:37.130
  • And we found a printer near
  • 00:34:37.130 --> 00:34:38.090
  • Brad's house and ordered--how
  • 00:34:38.090 --> 00:34:40.040
  • many do you order?
  • 00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:41.130
  • Well, you order 10.000 'cause
  • 00:34:41.130 --> 00:34:43.170
  • it's got a lot of zeroes in it
  • 00:34:43.170 --> 00:34:45.000
  • and you get a big price break.
  • 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.000
  • So in May of 2007 the first
  • 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:49.120
  • edition of "The Shack" landed in
  • 00:34:49.120 --> 00:34:51.080
  • Brad's house and actually they
  • 00:34:51.080 --> 00:34:53.260
  • delivered 11.000 because there's
  • 00:34:53.260 --> 00:34:56.070
  • this thing called overage where
  • 00:34:56.070 --> 00:34:57.260
  • they're allowed to publish an
  • 00:34:57.260 --> 00:34:58.250
  • extra 10% by "accident"
  • 00:34:58.250 --> 00:35:00.180
  • and charge you for them.
  • 00:35:00.180 --> 00:35:02.020
  • And our goal, get through
  • 00:35:02.020 --> 00:35:05.010
  • 10.000, 11.000 copies in 2 years
  • 00:35:05.190 --> 00:35:08.190
  • and work our way up to 100.000
  • 00:35:08.220 --> 00:35:11.220
  • in 5 years and then Hollywood
  • 00:35:11.220 --> 00:35:13.060
  • will come, talk to the boys
  • 00:35:13.060 --> 00:35:14.160
  • about a movie.
  • 00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:15.250
  • So that's what got the whole
  • 00:35:15.250 --> 00:35:17.200
  • thing going.
  • 00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:19.280
  • - Matt: You're saying it's a
  • 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:20.230
  • miracle.
  • 00:35:20.230 --> 00:35:21.150
  • - Paul: Oh, it's a God thing
  • 00:35:21.150 --> 00:35:22.150
  • from--
  • 00:35:22.150 --> 00:35:23.020
  • - Matt: It's just--it's a
  • 00:35:23.020 --> 00:35:23.210
  • miracle.
  • 00:35:23.210 --> 00:35:24.130
  • It remind--when you're telling
  • 00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:26.190
  • this story of this small
  • 00:35:26.190 --> 00:35:28.090
  • beginning, you know, the Bible
  • 00:35:28.090 --> 00:35:31.000
  • declares that we shouldn't
  • 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:32.120
  • despise small beginnings.
  • 00:35:32.120 --> 00:35:35.020
  • And the idea that you are
  • 00:35:35.020 --> 00:35:36.280
  • sitting here now, 20 million
  • 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:39.240
  • copies of this book sold,
  • 00:35:40.130 --> 00:35:43.130
  • you're, you know, I can hear the
  • 00:35:43.130 --> 00:35:45.140
  • audience saying, "Wait a second.
  • 00:35:45.140 --> 00:35:46.250
  • Is that that guy from--is that
  • 00:35:46.250 --> 00:35:48.230
  • the--is--" Yes, it's the guy
  • 00:35:48.230 --> 00:35:50.150
  • from "The Shack," okay?
  • 00:35:50.150 --> 00:35:52.290
  • Paul Young is sitting with us.
  • 00:35:52.290 --> 00:35:55.210
  • We have commandeered the set of
  • 00:35:55.210 --> 00:35:57.270
  • "The Shack."
  • 00:35:57.270 --> 00:35:59.010
  • We're in Montana,
  • 00:35:59.010 --> 00:36:00.150
  • beautiful Big Sky, Montana.
  • 00:36:00.150 --> 00:36:02.250
  • We're with Paul Young.
  • 00:36:02.250 --> 00:36:04.040
  • We're talking about a brand new
  • 00:36:04.040 --> 00:36:05.250
  • television series, a brand new
  • 00:36:05.250 --> 00:36:07.140
  • movie that's coming out in
  • 00:36:07.140 --> 00:36:09.020
  • March.
  • 00:36:09.020 --> 00:36:10.210
  • What an amazing season to go
  • 00:36:11.040 --> 00:36:14.040
  • from the printed copy into all
  • 00:36:14.100 --> 00:36:17.100
  • of these new forms of
  • 00:36:17.100 --> 00:36:18.210
  • communication.
  • 00:36:18.210 --> 00:36:20.280
  • - Paul: Relationship is at the
  • 00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:22.210
  • center of everything.
  • 00:36:22.210 --> 00:36:23.210
  • It's estimated in this world,
  • 00:36:23.210 --> 00:36:25.090
  • right now, that 75% of the
  • 00:36:25.090 --> 00:36:27.180
  • entire population of the human
  • 00:36:28.210 --> 00:36:31.210
  • race have experienced either
  • 00:36:31.210 --> 00:36:33.110
  • direct betrayal, loss, trauma,
  • 00:36:34.080 --> 00:36:37.080
  • or accidental loss, trauma.
  • 00:36:37.110 --> 00:36:40.110
  • And almost all of our losses
  • 00:36:40.200 --> 00:36:43.200
  • center around relationship.
  • 00:36:43.200 --> 00:36:45.170
  • God is a relational being.
  • 00:36:45.170 --> 00:36:47.200
  • Why does that matter?
  • 00:36:47.200 --> 00:36:48.280
  • It means that God has never been
  • 00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:50.210
  • alone.
  • 00:36:50.210 --> 00:36:51.260
  • And we're made in the image of
  • 00:36:51.260 --> 00:36:53.120
  • God.
  • 00:36:53.120 --> 00:36:54.080
  • And that means we have never
  • 00:36:54.080 --> 00:36:55.190
  • been alone.
  • 00:36:55.190 --> 00:36:56.290
  • In fact, loneliness as opposed
  • 00:36:56.290 --> 00:36:59.120
  • to solitude which is a very
  • 00:36:59.120 --> 00:37:01.220
  • positive thing, that's taking a
  • 00:37:01.220 --> 00:37:03.290
  • break to begin to think about
  • 00:37:03.290 --> 00:37:05.050
  • our world, ourselves, our
  • 00:37:05.050 --> 00:37:06.240
  • family, others, solitude has a
  • 00:37:06.240 --> 00:37:09.070
  • place.
  • 00:37:09.070 --> 00:37:10.280
  • It's a place of rest.
  • 00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:12.030
  • It's a place of recharging.
  • 00:37:12.030 --> 00:37:14.240
  • A place of enlightenment in the
  • 00:37:14.240 --> 00:37:16.280
  • sense that the Holy Spirit
  • 00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:18.030
  • teaches us in the quiet.
  • 00:37:18.060 --> 00:37:21.060
  • That's not what I'm talking
  • 00:37:21.060 --> 00:37:21.280
  • about.
  • 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:22.180
  • I'm talking about loneliness.
  • 00:37:22.180 --> 00:37:24.080
  • The sense that nobody cares.
  • 00:37:24.080 --> 00:37:26.020
  • And that nobody thinks that I
  • 00:37:26.050 --> 00:37:29.050
  • matter.
  • 00:37:29.050 --> 00:37:30.090
  • Loneliness, that I am alone.
  • 00:37:30.090 --> 00:37:32.150
  • The truth is you've never been
  • 00:37:32.150 --> 00:37:34.120
  • alone.
  • 00:37:34.120 --> 00:37:35.110
  • God has never been alone.
  • 00:37:35.110 --> 00:37:37.230
  • God has never done anything
  • 00:37:37.230 --> 00:37:39.250
  • alone.
  • 00:37:39.250 --> 00:37:41.030
  • This is the beauty of the
  • 00:37:41.030 --> 00:37:42.170
  • Trinity, that there is a
  • 00:37:42.170 --> 00:37:44.250
  • relationship that has always
  • 00:37:44.250 --> 00:37:47.020
  • existed between three.
  • 00:37:47.020 --> 00:37:49.150
  • And none of them has ever been
  • 00:37:49.150 --> 00:37:51.050
  • alone.
  • 00:37:51.050 --> 00:37:52.060
  • But none of them has ever been
  • 00:37:52.060 --> 00:37:53.290
  • diminished or absorbed either.
  • 00:37:53.290 --> 00:37:56.100
  • That's the beauty.
  • 00:37:56.100 --> 00:37:57.110
  • This is a great dance of
  • 00:37:57.110 --> 00:37:59.050
  • mutuality and we're made in the
  • 00:37:59.050 --> 00:38:01.130
  • image and nature and likeness of
  • 00:38:01.130 --> 00:38:03.190
  • God.
  • 00:38:03.190 --> 00:38:04.170
  • And we're not alone.
  • 00:38:04.170 --> 00:38:06.250
  • The first not good that you will
  • 00:38:06.250 --> 00:38:08.240
  • read in Scripture is that Adam
  • 00:38:09.230 --> 00:38:12.230
  • believed he was alone.
  • 00:38:12.230 --> 00:38:14.230
  • He'd never been alone.
  • 00:38:14.230 --> 00:38:17.080
  • He wasn't created alone.
  • 00:38:17.080 --> 00:38:18.290
  • He was surrounded inside the
  • 00:38:18.290 --> 00:38:20.250
  • love of the Father, Son, and
  • 00:38:20.250 --> 00:38:22.000
  • Holy Spirit.
  • 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.040
  • But that's the first not good
  • 00:38:23.040 --> 00:38:25.150
  • and anything that is not good
  • 00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:27.280
  • cannot originate in God.
  • 00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:29.220
  • So one of the greatest lies that
  • 00:38:29.220 --> 00:38:31.020
  • we have to deal with is that
  • 00:38:31.020 --> 00:38:32.180
  • we're alone.
  • 00:38:32.180 --> 00:38:34.030
  • My whole life, because of shame,
  • 00:38:34.030 --> 00:38:35.270
  • because of the things that I'd
  • 00:38:35.270 --> 00:38:37.140
  • been through, it drove me toward
  • 00:38:37.140 --> 00:38:40.070
  • isolation.
  • 00:38:40.070 --> 00:38:41.180
  • Even in the modern world right
  • 00:38:41.180 --> 00:38:42.270
  • now, we've begun to understand
  • 00:38:42.270 --> 00:38:44.110
  • that addiction is empowered by
  • 00:38:44.160 --> 00:38:47.160
  • isolation.
  • 00:38:47.160 --> 00:38:49.000
  • It's within community that a
  • 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:50.140
  • person becomes a person.
  • 00:38:50.210 --> 00:38:53.210
  • This is why the idea of a
  • 00:38:53.210 --> 00:38:55.110
  • community of faith or a
  • 00:38:55.110 --> 00:38:57.130
  • community of family, a community
  • 00:38:57.130 --> 00:38:59.250
  • of race, a community of ethnic
  • 00:38:59.250 --> 00:39:02.050
  • culture, those things matter to
  • 00:39:02.050 --> 00:39:04.190
  • us.
  • 00:39:04.190 --> 00:39:05.240
  • Family matters to us.
  • 00:39:05.240 --> 00:39:07.160
  • Friendship matters to us.
  • 00:39:07.160 --> 00:39:09.230
  • It matters deeply because we are
  • 00:39:09.230 --> 00:39:11.190
  • relational beings made in the
  • 00:39:11.190 --> 00:39:12.290
  • image of a God who is a
  • 00:39:12.290 --> 00:39:13.290
  • relational being.
  • 00:39:13.290 --> 00:39:15.220
  • We don't think there's anything
  • 00:39:15.220 --> 00:39:16.190
  • deeper about the character and
  • 00:39:16.190 --> 00:39:18.290
  • deeper about the character and
  • 00:39:18.290 --> 00:39:21.280
  • - Matt: So there are people
  • 00:39:24.130 --> 00:39:27.130
  • viewing now, Paul, that won't
  • 00:39:27.190 --> 00:39:30.190
  • get to go see the movie.
  • 00:39:30.190 --> 00:39:32.190
  • They live in some part of the
  • 00:39:32.190 --> 00:39:33.130
  • world or some part, you know.
  • 00:39:33.130 --> 00:39:34.280
  • There's a lot of satellites
  • 00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:36.050
  • connected to what we're doing.
  • 00:39:36.050 --> 00:39:37.230
  • We're out in the middle of a,
  • 00:39:37.230 --> 00:39:38.270
  • you know, set here but at some
  • 00:39:38.270 --> 00:39:40.260
  • satellites are all connected to
  • 00:39:44.020 --> 00:39:45.190
  • people around the world.
  • 00:39:45.190 --> 00:39:46.280
  • They won't get to see the film.
  • 00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:48.210
  • Maybe the book isn't published
  • 00:39:48.210 --> 00:39:50.120
  • in their language.
  • 00:39:50.120 --> 00:39:51.080
  • Maybe they're watching somewhere
  • 00:39:51.080 --> 00:39:53.000
  • in--is it in Indonesian?
  • 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.010
  • - Paul: Well, I grew up--it was
  • 00:39:55.010 --> 00:39:57.000
  • Netherlands New Guinea when we
  • 00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:58.100
  • first got there.
  • 00:39:58.100 --> 00:39:59.130
  • And then it became a UN
  • 00:39:59.130 --> 00:40:01.130
  • territory because nobody knew
  • 00:40:01.130 --> 00:40:03.040
  • what to do with it.
  • 00:40:03.040 --> 00:40:04.050
  • And then Sukarno came in and the
  • 00:40:04.050 --> 00:40:06.250
  • Indonesians also came and
  • 00:40:06.250 --> 00:40:08.270
  • annexed the country.
  • 00:40:08.270 --> 00:40:10.020
  • So there are four kids in our
  • 00:40:10.020 --> 00:40:11.200
  • family.
  • 00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:12.120
  • I have a Canadian passport.
  • 00:40:12.120 --> 00:40:13.200
  • My sister had a Dutch passport.
  • 00:40:13.200 --> 00:40:15.200
  • My brother had a UN, and my
  • 00:40:15.200 --> 00:40:17.230
  • third brother, my--the youngest
  • 00:40:17.230 --> 00:40:19.050
  • brother had an Indonesian
  • 00:40:19.050 --> 00:40:20.270
  • passport.
  • 00:40:20.270 --> 00:40:22.030
  • And the three of them were born
  • 00:40:22.030 --> 00:40:22.280
  • in the same place.
  • 00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:24.170
  • - Matt: Just take the next few
  • 00:40:24.170 --> 00:40:26.040
  • minutes, Paul, and just kinda,
  • 00:40:26.040 --> 00:40:27.250
  • you know, think about those that
  • 00:40:27.250 --> 00:40:29.220
  • won't get to go and see the
  • 00:40:29.220 --> 00:40:31.180
  • film, won't get to ever hold
  • 00:40:31.180 --> 00:40:33.230
  • this book in their language or
  • 00:40:33.230 --> 00:40:35.040
  • don't have enough money to buy
  • 00:40:35.040 --> 00:40:36.220
  • the book or don't know how to
  • 00:40:36.220 --> 00:40:38.040
  • get it.
  • 00:40:38.040 --> 00:40:39.140
  • We just need to unpack some
  • 00:40:39.250 --> 00:40:42.250
  • healing and some, you know, the
  • 00:40:42.250 --> 00:40:45.160
  • help that Mackenzie in the book,
  • 00:40:45.260 --> 00:40:48.260
  • "The Shack," got from
  • 00:40:48.260 --> 00:40:50.060
  • the Father, the Son,
  • 00:40:50.060 --> 00:40:51.060
  • and the Holy Spirit.
  • 00:40:51.060 --> 00:40:52.110
  • Little bit of that right here
  • 00:40:52.110 --> 00:40:53.060
  • right now on this program from
  • 00:40:53.060 --> 00:40:54.040
  • - Paul: Yeah, let's begin by
  • 00:40:56.060 --> 00:40:58.000
  • saying first that success is not
  • 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.040
  • 20 million copies in
  • 00:41:00.040 --> 00:41:02.040
  • 50 languages.
  • 00:41:02.040 --> 00:41:03.170
  • wholeness of the human person.
  • 00:41:08.020 --> 00:41:09.160
  • And it's not dependent on
  • 00:41:09.160 --> 00:41:10.110
  • physical success.
  • 00:41:10.110 --> 00:41:13.100
  • It's not dependent on material
  • 00:41:13.100 --> 00:41:14.210
  • success.
  • 00:41:14.210 --> 00:41:15.200
  • It's not dependent on any of
  • 00:41:15.200 --> 00:41:16.130
  • those things.
  • 00:41:16.130 --> 00:41:17.120
  • I wouldn't change who I am if it
  • 00:41:19.100 --> 00:41:22.100
  • cost me everything as far as
  • 00:41:22.110 --> 00:41:25.110
  • "The Shack" is related.
  • 00:41:25.110 --> 00:41:27.020
  • Pfft, no question.
  • 00:41:27.020 --> 00:41:28.290
  • I love the healing that has
  • 00:41:30.140 --> 00:41:33.140
  • happened in my own heart.
  • 00:41:33.140 --> 00:41:34.250
  • And that matters to me.
  • 00:41:34.250 --> 00:41:36.110
  • One of the things I say about
  • 00:41:36.110 --> 00:41:37.190
  • "The Shack" is that everything
  • 00:41:37.190 --> 00:41:40.010
  • that matters to me was in place
  • 00:41:40.010 --> 00:41:41.090
  • before I wrote the book, right?
  • 00:41:41.090 --> 00:41:43.170
  • And that's identity, worth,
  • 00:41:43.170 --> 00:41:45.210
  • value, significance, security,
  • 00:41:45.210 --> 00:41:48.180
  • meaning, purpose, destiny,
  • 00:41:48.180 --> 00:41:51.170
  • community, love.
  • 00:41:51.170 --> 00:41:53.070
  • That book didn't give me any of
  • 00:41:53.070 --> 00:41:54.130
  • those things.
  • 00:41:54.130 --> 00:41:55.130
  • The movie won't give me any of
  • 00:41:55.130 --> 00:41:56.210
  • those things.
  • 00:41:56.210 --> 00:41:57.220
  • All of those things are inside a
  • 00:41:57.220 --> 00:41:59.070
  • relationship with the Father,
  • 00:41:59.070 --> 00:42:01.190
  • Son, and Holy Spirit.
  • 00:42:01.190 --> 00:42:02.280
  • But a lot of us grow up with so
  • 00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:05.270
  • many impediments and barriers.
  • 00:42:05.290 --> 00:42:08.290
  • We've been told lies about God.
  • 00:42:08.290 --> 00:42:10.190
  • God becomes sort of the darkness
  • 00:42:10.190 --> 00:42:12.260
  • behind Jesus, even if we love
  • 00:42:12.260 --> 00:42:14.130
  • Jesus.
  • 00:42:14.130 --> 00:42:15.140
  • And God the Father is this
  • 00:42:15.140 --> 00:42:17.090
  • distant, unapproachable,
  • 00:42:17.090 --> 00:42:18.260
  • unreachable, unknowable being
  • 00:42:19.130 --> 00:42:22.130
  • watching from the infinite
  • 00:42:22.130 --> 00:42:23.280
  • distance of a disapproving
  • 00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.000
  • heart.
  • 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:26.000
  • That's the God I grew up with.
  • 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:27.170
  • Jesus came into my life to save
  • 00:42:27.170 --> 00:42:29.090
  • me from that God.
  • 00:42:29.090 --> 00:42:30.290
  • So I was saved by Jesus from God
  • 00:42:30.290 --> 00:42:33.150
  • the Father.
  • 00:42:33.150 --> 00:42:34.130
  • And that's partly mirrored in my
  • 00:42:34.130 --> 00:42:37.050
  • own difficult relationship
  • 00:42:37.050 --> 00:42:38.090
  • with my own dad.
  • 00:42:38.090 --> 00:42:39.140
  • But the point is this is not
  • 00:42:40.090 --> 00:42:43.090
  • dependent on anything in terms
  • 00:42:43.090 --> 00:42:45.150
  • of how the world defines
  • 00:42:45.150 --> 00:42:46.230
  • success.
  • 00:42:46.230 --> 00:42:47.290
  • This is a relationship.
  • 00:42:47.290 --> 00:42:49.220
  • And this is at the core
  • 00:42:49.220 --> 00:42:51.040
  • of all of this.
  • 00:42:51.040 --> 00:42:52.100
  • And what changed things for me.
  • 00:42:52.100 --> 00:42:53.120
  • To begin to realize that God is
  • 00:42:53.180 --> 00:42:56.180
  • a relational being, that there
  • 00:42:56.180 --> 00:42:58.210
  • is no deeper point of integrity
  • 00:42:59.260 --> 00:43:02.280
  • within the character of God
  • 00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:04.100
  • than relationship.
  • 00:43:04.100 --> 00:43:05.180
  • Father, Son, Holy Spirit have
  • 00:43:05.180 --> 00:43:07.090
  • always been in this great divine
  • 00:43:07.090 --> 00:43:10.060
  • dance, this dance of
  • 00:43:10.270 --> 00:43:13.270
  • love.
  • 00:43:16.070 --> 00:43:16.280
  • Submission happens not because
  • 00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:18.250
  • of any sense of hierarchy but
  • 00:43:18.250 --> 00:43:20.170
  • because of this love that is
  • 00:43:20.170 --> 00:43:22.210
  • constantly moving, that takes
  • 00:43:22.210 --> 00:43:24.200
  • into consideration the other.
  • 00:43:24.200 --> 00:43:26.120
  • So you have this mutual movement
  • 00:43:26.150 --> 00:43:29.150
  • with no loss of personhood.
  • 00:43:29.170 --> 00:43:32.170
  • Jesus never becomes the Father.
  • 00:43:32.170 --> 00:43:34.220
  • The Father never becomes the
  • 00:43:34.220 --> 00:43:35.250
  • Spirit.
  • 00:43:35.250 --> 00:43:36.230
  • And the beautiful thing for us
  • 00:43:36.230 --> 00:43:38.150
  • is we're created right in the
  • 00:43:38.150 --> 00:43:40.060
  • middle of that because we're
  • 00:43:40.060 --> 00:43:42.000
  • That's what it says in John.
  • 00:43:44.020 --> 00:43:45.150
  • Not anything that has come into
  • 00:43:45.150 --> 00:43:47.020
  • being has come into being apart
  • 00:43:47.020 --> 00:43:48.110
  • from him.
  • 00:43:48.110 --> 00:43:49.040
  • Or Paul writes and says,
  • 00:43:49.040 --> 00:43:50.250
  • "Everything is in, for, by,
  • 00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:53.050
  • through, is sustained in Jesus."
  • 00:43:53.050 --> 00:43:55.170
  • We're not spun out from God.
  • 00:43:55.170 --> 00:43:57.260
  • We're created in Christ.
  • 00:43:57.260 --> 00:44:00.130
  • And that means that's where our
  • 00:44:00.130 --> 00:44:02.160
  • identity really is established.
  • 00:44:02.160 --> 00:44:04.220
  • That's where our wholeness is
  • 00:44:04.220 --> 00:44:06.250
  • established.
  • 00:44:06.250 --> 00:44:07.270
  • But we've turned our face away.
  • 00:44:07.270 --> 00:44:09.080
  • We've been told lies.
  • 00:44:09.080 --> 00:44:10.090
  • We don't wanna take the risk of
  • 00:44:10.090 --> 00:44:12.110
  • trust so we go to control.
  • 00:44:12.110 --> 00:44:13.170
  • And that's what we've done.
  • 00:44:13.170 --> 00:44:15.260
  • We find ways to control
  • 00:44:15.260 --> 00:44:17.120
  • the people in our world,
  • 00:44:17.120 --> 00:44:20.000
  • the situations, and even if we
  • 00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:21.100
  • can't, we create imaginations
  • 00:44:21.100 --> 00:44:23.000
  • that we try to control,
  • 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:24.080
  • rather than live inside that
  • 00:44:24.080 --> 00:44:26.060
  • relationship.
  • 00:44:26.060 --> 00:44:27.020
  • now, they don't trust
  • 00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:30.210
  • their own prayers.
  • 00:44:30.210 --> 00:44:31.170
  • They're looking for someone
  • 00:44:31.170 --> 00:44:33.120
  • to help.
  • 00:44:33.120 --> 00:44:34.190
  • You walked into a therapist's
  • 00:44:34.190 --> 00:44:36.050
  • office and said,
  • 00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:37.010
  • "Can you help me?"
  • 00:44:37.010 --> 00:44:38.140
  • - Paul: I did.
  • 00:44:38.140 --> 00:44:39.040
  • - Matt: Okay, someone's
  • 00:44:39.040 --> 00:44:40.010
  • watching right now.
  • 00:44:40.010 --> 00:44:40.290
  • Would you pray for them please?
  • 00:44:43.010 --> 00:44:43.230
  • - Paul: I'd love to and let me
  • 00:44:43.230 --> 00:44:45.010
  • say prayer is not magic, you
  • 00:44:45.010 --> 00:44:47.240
  • know.
  • 00:44:47.240 --> 00:44:49.180
  • Prayer is a conversation.
  • 00:44:49.180 --> 00:44:52.150
  • And in every conversation, there
  • 00:44:52.150 --> 00:44:54.160
  • is speaking and processing and
  • 00:44:55.010 --> 00:44:58.010
  • listening.
  • 00:44:58.010 --> 00:44:59.030
  • A lot of people forget that
  • 00:44:59.030 --> 00:45:00.140
  • listening is part of prayer.
  • 00:45:00.140 --> 00:45:02.050
  • And I think prayer is happening
  • 00:45:02.050 --> 00:45:03.200
  • all the time.
  • 00:45:03.200 --> 00:45:05.040
  • The little interactions that are
  • 00:45:05.040 --> 00:45:06.070
  • going in our heart and our head.
  • 00:45:06.070 --> 00:45:07.100
  • And don't discount that you have
  • 00:45:07.160 --> 00:45:10.160
  • an ability to hear God speak
  • 00:45:10.160 --> 00:45:13.150
  • to you.
  • 00:45:13.150 --> 00:45:14.050
  • You do.
  • 00:45:14.050 --> 00:45:14.280
  • God's not a bad communicator.
  • 00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.220
  • God is a very good communicator
  • 00:45:16.220 --> 00:45:19.100
  • and, not only that, knows your
  • 00:45:19.100 --> 00:45:20.170
  • language.
  • 00:45:20.170 --> 00:45:22.010
  • You know, your language.
  • 00:45:22.010 --> 00:45:23.170
  • Not my language, not Paul
  • 00:45:23.170 --> 00:45:25.100
  • Young's--God knows Paul Young's
  • 00:45:25.100 --> 00:45:26.210
  • language and he talks to me in
  • 00:45:26.210 --> 00:45:28.060
  • Paul Young's language 'cause,
  • 00:45:28.060 --> 00:45:29.180
  • you know, I had a long ways to
  • 00:45:29.180 --> 00:45:31.190
  • go to begin to trust my ability
  • 00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:34.260
  • to hear.
  • 00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:35.190
  • I'm telling you, you can hear.
  • 00:45:35.190 --> 00:45:38.060
  • But it's so normal what you hear
  • 00:45:38.250 --> 00:45:41.250
  • that you've discounted it and
  • 00:45:41.250 --> 00:45:42.250
  • you think you need to hear it
  • 00:45:42.250 --> 00:45:43.220
  • like somebody else.
  • 00:45:43.220 --> 00:45:45.000
  • You need to hear the voice of
  • 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:46.100
  • God like somebody else's
  • 00:45:46.100 --> 00:45:47.070
  • experience.
  • 00:45:47.070 --> 00:45:48.060
  • You don't.
  • 00:45:48.060 --> 00:45:49.030
  • You can hear for yourself.
  • 00:45:49.030 --> 00:45:50.280
  • And even the most faltering
  • 00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:53.170
  • words, the simplest.
  • 00:45:53.170 --> 00:45:56.140
  • Would we ever say that to one of
  • 00:45:56.140 --> 00:45:59.100
  • our children?
  • 00:45:59.100 --> 00:46:00.120
  • You know, I'm gonna wait right
  • 00:46:00.120 --> 00:46:01.290
  • here until you can speak
  • 00:46:01.290 --> 00:46:03.000
  • your--speak better.
  • 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:04.250
  • You know, you're not putting
  • 00:46:04.250 --> 00:46:05.270
  • your verbs in the right place
  • 00:46:05.270 --> 00:46:07.030
  • and your adjectives are all out
  • 00:46:07.030 --> 00:46:08.120
  • of whack.
  • 00:46:08.120 --> 00:46:09.070
  • We'd never think about that with
  • 00:46:09.070 --> 00:46:11.110
  • regard to our children.
  • 00:46:11.110 --> 00:46:13.000
  • We forget that our love for our
  • 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:15.230
  • children is a reflection of
  • 00:46:15.230 --> 00:46:17.250
  • being made in the image of God.
  • 00:46:17.250 --> 00:46:19.200
  • That love does not originate
  • 00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:21.170
  • with us.
  • 00:46:21.170 --> 00:46:22.190
  • It originates inside this love
  • 00:46:22.190 --> 00:46:24.180
  • of the Father, Son,
  • 00:46:24.180 --> 00:46:25.200
  • and Holy Spirit.
  • 00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:26.210
  • This is a God who communicates.
  • 00:46:26.210 --> 00:46:28.130
  • So I'd love to pray with you.
  • 00:46:28.130 --> 00:46:30.100
  • - Matt: Beautiful.
  • 00:46:30.100 --> 00:46:31.280
  • - Paul: I'm not--I don't wanna
  • 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:34.100
  • pray at you.
  • 00:46:34.100 --> 00:46:35.060
  • And frankly, I don't know the
  • 00:46:35.060 --> 00:46:37.230
  • mystery of what you're facing.
  • 00:46:37.230 --> 00:46:39.240
  • I don't know what's right in
  • 00:46:39.240 --> 00:46:40.270
  • front of you.
  • 00:46:40.270 --> 00:46:42.030
  • If it's all really complicated
  • 00:46:42.030 --> 00:46:43.100
  • right now for you, simplify it.
  • 00:46:43.100 --> 00:46:45.210
  • Pick one thing.
  • 00:46:45.210 --> 00:46:46.260
  • You know, talk to God about
  • 00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:48.130
  • one thing.
  • 00:46:48.130 --> 00:46:50.060
  • So I'm gonna ask the Holy Spirit
  • 00:46:50.060 --> 00:46:52.180
  • to settle you down, to put
  • 00:46:53.070 --> 00:46:56.070
  • a physical sense of embrace
  • 00:46:57.110 --> 00:47:00.130
  • around you.
  • 00:47:01.290 --> 00:47:04.290
  • To let you take a deep breath.
  • 00:47:06.100 --> 00:47:09.100
  • I do that right now.
  • 00:47:09.100 --> 00:47:11.080
  • Take a deep breath.
  • 00:47:11.080 --> 00:47:13.140
  • Breath and Spirit in the Hebrew
  • 00:47:13.140 --> 00:47:15.130
  • are the same word.
  • 00:47:15.130 --> 00:47:17.040
  • We breathe in life,
  • 00:47:17.040 --> 00:47:19.160
  • we breathe out.
  • 00:47:19.160 --> 00:47:20.290
  • We breathe in the Spirit,
  • 00:47:20.290 --> 00:47:22.160
  • we breathe out.
  • 00:47:22.160 --> 00:47:23.190
  • The Holy Spirit has been poured
  • 00:47:23.190 --> 00:47:26.000
  • out on all flesh,
  • 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:27.270
  • that includes you.
  • 00:47:28.040 --> 00:47:31.040
  • I pray the Holy Spirit opens
  • 00:47:31.210 --> 00:47:34.210
  • your eyes and that you have
  • 00:47:34.210 --> 00:47:37.120
  • a sense that is beyond
  • 00:47:37.120 --> 00:47:39.010
  • understanding of a peace
  • 00:47:39.010 --> 00:47:40.280
  • that is not dependent
  • 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:43.240
  • on the circumstances
  • 00:47:43.240 --> 00:47:45.020
  • that you are facing.
  • 00:47:45.020 --> 00:47:46.280
  • Something that goes down to the
  • 00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:48.230
  • very core of your being.
  • 00:47:50.180 --> 00:47:53.180
  • And don't fight it.
  • 00:47:53.180 --> 00:47:55.190
  • Just let the peace of Jesus
  • 00:47:56.240 --> 00:47:59.240
  • be yours.
  • 00:47:59.240 --> 00:48:02.250
  • He dwells in you and Jesus is at
  • 00:48:03.200 --> 00:48:06.200
  • peace with the Father, with the
  • 00:48:06.200 --> 00:48:09.020
  • Spirit, and with the world
  • 00:48:09.020 --> 00:48:11.100
  • around him.
  • 00:48:11.100 --> 00:48:12.120
  • He's not worried, he's not
  • 00:48:12.120 --> 00:48:13.040
  • anxious.
  • 00:48:13.040 --> 00:48:14.090
  • Let him be your peace.
  • 00:48:15.070 --> 00:48:18.070
  • And the Holy Spirit grant to you
  • 00:48:18.070 --> 00:48:21.040
  • an ability to sit down into the
  • 00:48:22.020 --> 00:48:25.020
  • life of Jesus who trusts the
  • 00:48:25.020 --> 00:48:27.280
  • Father.
  • 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:29.070
  • This is the good news that Jesus
  • 00:48:29.180 --> 00:48:32.180
  • has received you into his life,
  • 00:48:32.180 --> 00:48:35.060
  • into his anointing in the Holy
  • 00:48:35.060 --> 00:48:37.050
  • Spirit, into his relationship
  • 00:48:37.050 --> 00:48:39.050
  • with the Father.
  • 00:48:39.050 --> 00:48:40.190
  • This is John 14:20: "I am in the
  • 00:48:41.120 --> 00:48:44.120
  • Father," Jesus' words, "you're
  • 00:48:44.120 --> 00:48:46.060
  • in me, I'm in you."
  • 00:48:46.060 --> 00:48:48.260
  • He is your peace.
  • 00:48:48.260 --> 00:48:51.190
  • He is your faith.
  • 00:48:51.190 --> 00:48:53.290
  • We live by the faith of the Son
  • 00:48:53.290 --> 00:48:56.010
  • of God, not in the Son of God.
  • 00:48:56.010 --> 00:48:58.180
  • Faith in the Son of God is then
  • 00:48:58.180 --> 00:49:00.130
  • our participation to agree with
  • 00:49:00.130 --> 00:49:02.280
  • what the Holy Spirit is teaching
  • 00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:04.170
  • us about the truth,
  • 00:49:04.170 --> 00:49:05.250
  • who is a person.
  • 00:49:05.250 --> 00:49:07.070
  • Even truth is a relationship.
  • 00:49:07.070 --> 00:49:09.130
  • It's centered in Jesus.
  • 00:49:09.130 --> 00:49:11.190
  • Holy Spirit, help us all, help
  • 00:49:11.190 --> 00:49:13.110
  • me, to just stay inside the
  • 00:49:13.110 --> 00:49:16.070
  • truth who is Jesus and rest
  • 00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:19.280
  • there and allow Jesus to be my
  • 00:49:20.120 --> 00:49:23.120
  • peace, to be my wholeness,
  • 00:49:23.120 --> 00:49:25.270
  • to move me from this day just
  • 00:49:25.270 --> 00:49:28.110
  • in the context of this day
  • 00:49:28.110 --> 00:49:30.030
  • one step forward.
  • 00:49:30.030 --> 00:49:32.220
  • Whatever it is that the Holy
  • 00:49:32.220 --> 00:49:34.080
  • Spirit brings to mind.
  • 00:49:34.080 --> 00:49:35.240
  • Maybe it's a relationship that's
  • 00:49:35.240 --> 00:49:36.290
  • all busted up, maybe it's a
  • 00:49:36.290 --> 00:49:39.090
  • bitterness.
  • 00:49:39.090 --> 00:49:39.250
  • Maybe--maybe it's a conversation
  • 00:49:39.250 --> 00:49:41.260
  • that you just have imagined and
  • 00:49:41.260 --> 00:49:43.140
  • now you won't go and speak to
  • 00:49:43.140 --> 00:49:45.120
  • find out whether you were even
  • 00:49:45.120 --> 00:49:46.160
  • right or wrong.
  • 00:49:46.160 --> 00:49:47.270
  • We have all of these things that
  • 00:49:47.270 --> 00:49:49.240
  • we do as human beings that
  • 00:49:49.240 --> 00:49:51.150
  • matter because we are so much
  • 00:49:51.150 --> 00:49:53.220
  • more incredibly crafted than we
  • 00:49:53.240 --> 00:49:56.240
  • think we are.
  • 00:49:56.240 --> 00:49:58.190
  • We're a magnificent creation and
  • 00:49:58.190 --> 00:50:01.020
  • God has a high view of who you
  • 00:50:01.020 --> 00:50:03.120
  • are.
  • 00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:04.150
  • Your choices absolutely matter.
  • 00:50:05.050 --> 00:50:08.050
  • Your choice to hold the
  • 00:50:08.050 --> 00:50:09.150
  • bitterness, your choice to hold
  • 00:50:09.150 --> 00:50:12.150
  • a grudge, your choice to not
  • 00:50:12.150 --> 00:50:13.280
  • forgive.
  • 00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:15.020
  • Your choice to be kind.
  • 00:50:15.020 --> 00:50:17.020
  • Your choice to turn the other
  • 00:50:17.020 --> 00:50:19.050
  • cheek.
  • 00:50:19.050 --> 00:50:21.010
  • Your choice to love in spite of
  • 00:50:21.250 --> 00:50:24.250
  • anything.
  • 00:50:24.250 --> 00:50:26.250
  • These things all matter.
  • 00:50:26.250 --> 00:50:28.240
  • And they ripple through the
  • 00:50:28.240 --> 00:50:29.220
  • universe.
  • 00:50:29.220 --> 00:50:30.170
  • God grant you the ability to sit
  • 00:50:30.170 --> 00:50:32.030
  • down inside the grace of just
  • 00:50:32.030 --> 00:50:34.090
  • this day, just for today.
  • 00:50:34.090 --> 00:50:36.180
  • Not for some imagination that
  • 00:50:36.180 --> 00:50:38.100
  • doesn't exist.
  • 00:50:38.100 --> 00:50:39.180
  • Spend today's grace on just
  • 00:50:39.180 --> 00:50:41.190
  • today.
  • 00:50:41.190 --> 00:50:43.030
  • And may the Holy Spirit grant
  • 00:50:43.030 --> 00:50:44.000
  • you the ability to agree with
  • 00:50:44.170 --> 00:50:47.170
  • that.
  • 00:50:47.170 --> 00:50:48.150
  • - Paul: I think it was Leanne
  • 00:50:48.150 --> 00:50:50.160
  • Payne who said, "The unconfessed
  • 00:50:50.160 --> 00:50:53.110
  • is the unhealed."
  • 00:50:53.110 --> 00:50:55.160
  • We have to learn to talk about
  • 00:50:56.250 --> 00:50:59.250
  • our great sadnesses.
  • 00:50:59.250 --> 00:51:02.070
  • We have to find a way to let
  • 00:51:02.070 --> 00:51:04.270
  • somebody into that space.
  • 00:51:05.120 --> 00:51:08.120
  • We're designed to be in
  • 00:51:08.120 --> 00:51:09.240
  • community.
  • 00:51:09.240 --> 00:51:10.220
  • We've never been designed to be
  • 00:51:10.220 --> 00:51:11.280
  • alone.
  • 00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:13.100
  • We have to begin to take the
  • 00:51:13.100 --> 00:51:15.150
  • risk of telling the truth, of
  • 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.000
  • speaking things that are real,
  • 00:51:20.040 --> 00:51:23.040
  • of going back into our histories
  • 00:51:24.260 --> 00:51:27.260
  • and into our shacks and talking
  • 00:51:27.260 --> 00:51:29.120
  • about our great sadness.
  • 00:51:29.120 --> 00:51:31.120
  • - Matt: We are sitting down
  • 00:51:31.120 --> 00:51:32.100
  • with Paul Young, actually on the
  • 00:51:32.100 --> 00:51:35.080
  • set of "The Shack" here in
  • 00:51:35.210 --> 00:51:38.210
  • Big Sky, Montana.
  • 00:51:38.210 --> 00:51:40.220
  • The "Praise" program comes to
  • 00:51:40.220 --> 00:51:41.290
  • you on this amazing, beautiful,
  • 00:51:42.060 --> 00:51:45.060
  • peaceful, still, gorgeous
  • 00:51:45.060 --> 00:51:47.150
  • evening in Big Sky, Montana and
  • 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:51.000
  • this program right here is
  • 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.210
  • talking about "The Shack."
  • 00:51:53.210 --> 00:51:55.110
  • Earlier in the broadcast, you
  • 00:51:55.110 --> 00:51:56.240
  • declared that "The Shack" was
  • 00:51:56.240 --> 00:51:59.140
  • really representation and an
  • 00:51:59.140 --> 00:52:00.240
  • analogy of your broken heart.
  • 00:52:00.240 --> 00:52:02.130
  • That's what this TV series is,
  • 00:52:04.200 --> 00:52:06.290
  • coming to TBN.
  • 00:52:06.290 --> 00:52:09.090
  • That's what the new movie coming
  • 00:52:09.090 --> 00:52:11.110
  • to theaters in March of 2017 is.
  • 00:52:11.190 --> 00:52:14.190
  • Let the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and
  • 00:52:15.080 --> 00:52:18.080
  • and make you--
  • 00:52:21.100 --> 00:52:22.200
  • - Paul: Whole.
  • 00:52:22.200 --> 00:52:23.070
  • - Matt: Whole.
  • 00:52:23.070 --> 00:52:24.020
  • - Paul: Whole, which is healed,
  • 00:52:24.020 --> 00:52:26.070
  • which is holy, right?
  • 00:52:26.070 --> 00:52:28.060
  • They're all related in language.
  • 00:52:28.060 --> 00:52:30.010
  • You know, God is holy but that
  • 00:52:30.010 --> 00:52:32.120
  • meant for me something to be
  • 00:52:32.120 --> 00:52:34.160
  • afraid of, you know.
  • 00:52:34.160 --> 00:52:36.030
  • Antiseptically moral or some
  • 00:52:36.030 --> 00:52:38.090
  • purification person that's way
  • 00:52:38.090 --> 00:52:40.050
  • in the distance, you know.
  • 00:52:40.050 --> 00:52:41.290
  • But God was holy before there
  • 00:52:41.290 --> 00:52:43.120
  • was any sin, which means
  • 00:52:43.120 --> 00:52:45.030
  • holiness has got nothing
  • 00:52:45.030 --> 00:52:46.270
  • fundamentally to do with sin at
  • 00:52:46.270 --> 00:52:48.080
  • all.
  • 00:52:48.080 --> 00:52:49.060
  • And the word actually means
  • 00:52:49.060 --> 00:52:50.180
  • otherness or integrated, you
  • 00:52:50.180 --> 00:52:53.040
  • know.
  • 00:52:53.040 --> 00:52:54.100
  • And we're designed to be whole
  • 00:52:54.100 --> 00:52:57.070
  • people.
  • 00:52:57.070 --> 00:52:58.180
  • And it's a relational term.
  • 00:52:58.180 --> 00:53:00.270
  • The otherness is this love that
  • 00:53:00.270 --> 00:53:02.200
  • is other-centered and
  • 00:53:02.200 --> 00:53:03.200
  • self-giving.
  • 00:53:03.200 --> 00:53:04.280
  • And that is how we're designed
  • 00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:06.280
  • to be, to live and walk and move
  • 00:53:06.280 --> 00:53:08.100
  • in that.
  • 00:53:08.100 --> 00:53:09.060
  • - Matt: The big picture is 20
  • 00:53:09.060 --> 00:53:11.000
  • million copies of this book are
  • 00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:13.030
  • now in print in 50 languages.
  • 00:53:13.030 --> 00:53:15.200
  • The brand new television series
  • 00:53:15.200 --> 00:53:17.200
  • is underway and a brand new
  • 00:53:17.230 --> 00:53:20.230
  • feature motion picture is coming
  • 00:53:20.230 --> 00:53:23.030
  • to theaters.
  • 00:53:23.030 --> 00:53:24.060
  • That's the big picture.
  • 00:53:24.060 --> 00:53:26.210
  • The simplification of that is
  • 00:53:26.210 --> 00:53:29.020
  • there is a shack that you need
  • 00:53:29.020 --> 00:53:31.030
  • to walk into, get fixed, and
  • 00:53:31.030 --> 00:53:32.230
  • walk back out of.
  • 00:53:32.230 --> 00:53:34.040
  • That's what we're trying to do.
  • 00:53:34.040 --> 00:53:35.110
  • - Paul: That's almost true.
  • 00:53:35.110 --> 00:53:36.060
  • There is a shack that is your
  • 00:53:36.060 --> 00:53:37.200
  • heart and you need to go back in
  • 00:53:37.200 --> 00:53:39.030
  • there and find out that it is
  • 00:53:39.030 --> 00:53:41.050
  • that broken place that God
  • 00:53:41.050 --> 00:53:43.050
  • loves.
  • 00:53:43.050 --> 00:53:44.040
  • You're--the goal is not to leave
  • 00:53:44.040 --> 00:53:46.290
  • it.
  • 00:53:46.290 --> 00:53:47.210
  • The goal is to be transformed
  • 00:53:47.210 --> 00:53:50.000
  • and then live inside a sense of
  • 00:53:50.290 --> 00:53:53.290
  • being comfortable in your own
  • 00:53:53.290 --> 00:53:56.040
  • skin, with the Father, Son, and
  • 00:53:56.040 --> 00:53:58.090
  • Holy Spirit.
  • 00:53:58.090 --> 00:53:59.060
  • This--in the scene that
  • 00:53:59.060 --> 00:54:01.240
  • Mackenzie shows up, God the
  • 00:54:01.240 --> 00:54:04.020
  • Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
  • 00:54:04.020 --> 00:54:06.110
  • come from inside the shack out.
  • 00:54:06.110 --> 00:54:08.080
  • And he hasn't even confessed or
  • 00:54:08.080 --> 00:54:09.220
  • repented yet.
  • 00:54:09.220 --> 00:54:10.190
  • They dwell there because that is
  • 00:54:10.190 --> 00:54:12.180
  • the intent of the entire
  • 00:54:12.180 --> 00:54:14.020
  • creation.
  • 00:54:14.020 --> 00:54:15.050
  • God created because of you,
  • 00:54:15.050 --> 00:54:17.160
  • for the one.
  • 00:54:17.220 --> 00:54:20.220
  • And this is where God dwells,
  • 00:54:20.220 --> 00:54:22.130
  • not in physical buildings and
  • 00:54:22.130 --> 00:54:24.060
  • institutional systems, but in
  • 00:54:24.060 --> 00:54:26.140
  • the human person.
  • 00:54:26.140 --> 00:54:28.110
  • This is the beauty of Jesus who
  • 00:54:28.110 --> 00:54:30.010
  • comes in the flesh.
  • 00:54:30.010 --> 00:54:31.000
  • God forever joining with our
  • 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:33.120
  • humanity.
  • 00:54:33.120 --> 00:54:34.120
  • Jesus will never not be human.
  • 00:54:34.120 --> 00:54:36.250
  • That tells you what a high view
  • 00:54:36.250 --> 00:54:38.180
  • of humanity God has.
  • 00:54:38.180 --> 00:54:40.070
  • And we've lost that somewhere
  • 00:54:40.070 --> 00:54:41.230
  • along the religious line.
  • 00:54:41.230 --> 00:54:43.150
  • - Matt: Point--point--go ahead,
  • 00:54:43.150 --> 00:54:45.010
  • baby.
  • 00:54:45.010 --> 00:54:45.190
  • - Laurie: Well, it just reminds
  • 00:54:45.190 --> 00:54:46.130
  • me of the Scripture where it
  • 00:54:46.130 --> 00:54:47.210
  • talks about Jesus being the
  • 00:54:47.210 --> 00:54:49.000
  • potter and us being the clay and
  • 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:50.200
  • it says that in the hands of the
  • 00:54:50.200 --> 00:54:52.140
  • potter, the clay was marred.
  • 00:54:52.140 --> 00:54:55.070
  • To mold and to make into his
  • 00:54:55.070 --> 00:54:57.230
  • design, into what he wanted and,
  • 00:54:57.230 --> 00:54:59.290
  • you know.
  • 00:54:59.290 --> 00:55:00.250
  • - Paul: The beautiful thing
  • 00:55:00.250 --> 00:55:02.110
  • about that picture in Romans is
  • 00:55:02.110 --> 00:55:03.210
  • the brokenness of that pot and
  • 00:55:07.070 --> 00:55:09.220
  • works with it, not to destroy
  • 00:55:10.070 --> 00:55:13.070
  • the pot but to recreate it
  • 00:55:13.080 --> 00:55:16.080
  • so that it can be everything
  • 00:55:16.080 --> 00:55:17.250
  • A lot of times we think, "I've
  • 00:55:19.270 --> 00:55:20.190
  • gotta disappear in the process."
  • 00:55:20.190 --> 00:55:22.240
  • No, the whole point is
  • 00:55:22.240 --> 00:55:24.020
  • that God wants to heal you
  • 00:55:24.020 --> 00:55:25.130
  • so that you can emerge.
  • 00:55:25.130 --> 00:55:27.070
  • God doesn't need 7 billion
  • 00:55:27.070 --> 00:55:28.280
  • Jesuses running around, right?
  • 00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:31.010
  • God has 7 billion, 8 billion of
  • 00:55:31.010 --> 00:55:33.230
  • us because that's the only way
  • 00:55:33.230 --> 00:55:35.190
  • we can get a composite picture
  • 00:55:35.190 --> 00:55:37.250
  • of the breadth, the magnificence
  • 00:55:37.250 --> 00:55:40.110
  • of the character and nature of
  • 00:55:40.110 --> 00:55:41.180
  • God.
  • 00:55:41.180 --> 00:55:42.130
  • It takes billions and billions
  • 00:55:42.130 --> 00:55:43.170
  • of people, each displaying
  • 00:55:43.170 --> 00:55:45.230
  • uniquely the attributes of God
  • 00:55:45.230 --> 00:55:48.210
  • inside their humanity.
  • 00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:50.230
  • And that's--how cool is that,
  • 00:55:50.230 --> 00:55:52.170
  • right?
  • 00:55:52.170 --> 00:55:53.150
  • Then we can begin to celebrate
  • 00:55:53.150 --> 00:55:54.180
  • our humanity.
  • 00:55:54.180 --> 00:55:55.240
  • - Laurie: Our brokenness, it's
  • 00:55:55.240 --> 00:55:58.170
  • the--the brokenness of our lives
  • 00:55:58.170 --> 00:56:00.140
  • becomes such a gift to us, then.
  • 00:56:00.140 --> 00:56:02.260
  • I mean, how many times have we
  • 00:56:02.260 --> 00:56:04.060
  • gone through--you might have
  • 00:56:04.060 --> 00:56:06.030
  • a tragedy in your life but then
  • 00:56:09.070 --> 00:56:11.040
  • you get through it and you look
  • 00:56:11.040 --> 00:56:12.140
  • back on it and go, "That was
  • 00:56:12.140 --> 00:56:13.250
  • such a gift to me."
  • 00:56:13.250 --> 00:56:14.290
  • - Paul: We do.
  • 00:56:14.290 --> 00:56:16.140
  • We look back on it that way.
  • 00:56:16.140 --> 00:56:18.080
  • But here is something absolutely
  • 00:56:18.080 --> 00:56:20.010
  • critical.
  • 00:56:20.010 --> 00:56:20.230
  • God does not originate
  • 00:56:20.230 --> 00:56:22.060
  • brokenness.
  • 00:56:22.060 --> 00:56:23.140
  • God does not originate evil.
  • 00:56:23.140 --> 00:56:25.050
  • God is not the author of
  • 00:56:25.050 --> 00:56:27.020
  • talked about the cross.
  • 00:56:29.250 --> 00:56:30.250
  • There's a good question for you.
  • 00:56:30.250 --> 00:56:32.260
  • Who originated the cross?
  • 00:56:32.260 --> 00:56:34.180
  • And it's my opinion that we did.
  • 00:56:34.180 --> 00:56:37.130
  • - Laurie: We did.
  • 00:56:37.130 --> 00:56:37.290
  • Our sin did.
  • 00:56:37.290 --> 00:56:38.180
  • - Paul: 'Cause it's a dark
  • 00:56:38.180 --> 00:56:39.140
  • machine.
  • 00:56:39.140 --> 00:56:40.070
  • It's a torture device.
  • 00:56:40.070 --> 00:56:41.120
  • We created it.
  • 00:56:41.120 --> 00:56:42.260
  • God submits to it in order to
  • 00:56:42.260 --> 00:56:44.240
  • destroy it and then transforms
  • 00:56:44.240 --> 00:56:47.070
  • it into an icon and a monument
  • 00:56:47.070 --> 00:56:49.030
  • of grace.
  • 00:56:49.030 --> 00:56:49.280
  • - Matt: Of love, wow.
  • 00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:51.020
  • Okay, you're experiencing
  • 00:56:51.020 --> 00:56:53.040
  • "The Shack."
  • 00:56:53.040 --> 00:56:54.060
  • We are here in Big Sky, Montana.
  • 00:56:54.060 --> 00:56:56.180
  • This is the "Praise the Lord"
  • 00:56:56.180 --> 00:56:57.170
  • program.
  • 00:56:57.170 --> 00:56:58.120
  • And we are all about the new
  • 00:56:58.120 --> 00:57:01.050
  • episodes that are coming right
  • 00:57:01.050 --> 00:57:02.250
  • here to Trinity Broadcasting.
  • 00:57:02.250 --> 00:57:04.010
  • "The Shack" is all about going
  • 00:57:04.010 --> 00:57:06.110
  • from brokenness to wholeness.
  • 00:57:06.110 --> 00:57:08.020
  • It's all this brand new content
  • 00:57:08.020 --> 00:57:09.230
  • right here on TBN.
  • 00:57:09.230 --> 00:57:10.230
  • From Big Sky, Montana,
  • 00:57:10.230 --> 00:57:13.000
  • we'll see you next time.
  • 00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:14.150
  • we'll see you next time.
  • 00:57:14.150 --> 00:57:16.130
  • [music]
  • 00:57:16.150 --> 00:57:26.260