Targeting US
November 24, 2020
25:01
Jay Sekulow speaks about the protection of religious freedoms in America.
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Targeting US
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- (lively music)
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- - Everybody, welcometo the broadcast.
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- This is Jordan Sekulow,executive director
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- of the American Centerfor Law and Justice.
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- You are at a time when wehave been working, you know,
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- of course, with thepresident, the white house,
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- Congress, preparingpotentially to do battle
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- with the far left,
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- but also fighting hard for theelection integrity right now.
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- We thought it was animportant time for you
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- to be reminded ofthe kind of work
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- the American Centerfor Law and Justice
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- was successful in doing, underthe previous administration,
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- under administration not sofriendly to conservatives
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- and Christians
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- and evangelicals.
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- And that was, ofcourse we represented
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- all of those Tea Partycases and took on the IRS
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- and beat the IRS.
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- And many of youmay not have seen,
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- because this election has been,
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- there's been so much goingon in these last few years,
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- the documentary we put togetherkind of a few years later,
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- bringing back someof those clients
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- after that big win at the IRS.
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- And since then, seeno issues with the IRS
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- when it comes toconservative groups,
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- in fact,
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- it made it easier to becomea 501(c)(4) organization,
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- which is what mostof these groups were.
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- So we put togethera documentary,
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- it's called "Targeting us".
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- On today's broadcast,
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- we're gonna play someof the highlights
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- of that documentary"Targeting Us"
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- so that you know the ACLJ isready to do battle for you
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- regardless of whois in the White House
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- or who controls Congress
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- or who controls the IRS.
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- That's what we do withthe American Center
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- for Law and Justice.
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- Take a look on today's broadcast
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- and just some of the documentary
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- "Targeting Us".
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- We'll be right back.
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- (lively music)
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- - Ms. Lerner, why would you say,
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- key party caseswere very dangerous?
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- - On the advice of my counsel,
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- I respectfully exercisemy fifth amendment right
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- and declined toanswer that question.
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- - They knew they werebreaking the law.
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- They knew they wereviolating our rights.
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- - There were some boneheadeddecisions, out of...
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- - Boneheaded decision,but no mass corruption?
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- - Not even mass corruption,
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- not even a smidgenof corruption.
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- - It was the tip of the iceberg.
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- It was far worse thaneven we expected.
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- - The IRS has finally releaseda list of political groups
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- it has scrutinized.
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- - It was something thatno one could believe
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- our government waseven capable of doing.
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- - They have way too much power
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- and no accountability.
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- - Never before has the federalgovernment tried to muzzle
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- everyday Americans solelybecause of their political view.
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- - That is as wrong as it gets.
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- - Lois Lerner knewwhat was coming
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- and it wasn'tgoing to be pretty.
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- - We were fighting theUnited States of America
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- at this point.
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- - we accidentally stumbledinto the corruption
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- that is going to be,
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- and is the largest scandalin American history.
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- - My name is Kevin Kookogey.
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- - I'm, Toby Marie Walker.
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- - Tom Zawistowski.
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- - Eric Wilson.
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- - Mark Kent.
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- - Becky Gerritson.
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- - Kara Waddell.
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- - And this,
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- - And this
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- - And this,- [All] This is our story.
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- - [All] This is my story.- This is my story.
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- (electronic buzzing)
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- - I live in a little townoutside of Montgomery, Alabama,
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- small population,
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- mostly retired people, alot of military people,
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- and I was not political at all.
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- - Waco is a very small town,but has a big town kind of feel
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- because we're the hub of Texas,
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- we're the heart of Texas,
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- and has a lot of charm to it.
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- And it's pretty friendly,
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- feel crazy too, btpretty friendly.
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- - We had moved to Kentucky.
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- Hadn't been there thatlong, you know, year or so.
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- And we felt isolated.
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- And we really feltlike we were alone.
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- That what we were seeinghappening in our nation,
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- that nobody elsewas seeing this.
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- That we were theonly ones that saw
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- we were going inthe wrong direction.
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- - In the fall of 2008,when the bailouts happened,
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- I was really awakened to whatwas happening to our country.
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- And basically ourgovernment was mortgaging
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- the future of our country.
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- - People are paying forthe government's debt.
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- And at the end of the day,
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- and people were sick ofpaying that much debt,
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- there's they still are.
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- So that's kind ofwhat sparked it.
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- And we saw the firstTea parties on the rant.
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- - This is America.
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- How many of you people wanna pay
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- for your neighbor's mortgage,
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- that has an extra bathroomand can't pay their bills,
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- raise their hand.
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- (crowd booing)
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- President Obama,are you listening?
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- - Jason.
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- - [Female Voice] How aboutyou get people fired up.
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- - Jason, you wanna...
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- - [Jason] We'rethinking of having
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- a Chicago Tea Party in July.
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- - A lot of people forgotwhat the T the E and the A
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- stood for, it wasTaxed Enough Already.
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- And that was what had really
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- kind of generated this movement,
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- grassroots movement.
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- That was not partisan, soit wasn't just Republicans.
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- It wasn't evenjust conservatives
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- but it was people across thecountry who said, you know,
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- I've just had it withthe federal government.
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- - At that time we had heard
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- of other groupsaround the country,
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- just people aroundthe country going,
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- they were going to startwhat they called a Tea Party,
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- like the Boston Tea Party
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- and rebel against someof these policies.
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- So my husband said, Becky,
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- I know they're going to havea tea party in Montgomery
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- but we have a lot of olderfolks up here in Wetumpka,
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- Why don't we putsomething on at the park?
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- - You know, I've beenadvocating against,
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- you know, the overreach ofgovernment for a long time.
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- So they kinda gottagone over here
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- and then somebodyhad the bright idea.
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- Hey, get Mark Kent over here,he's all over this stuff.
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- So they pulled me in and thenthat's what got me started.
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- - What got me into this,
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- what brought me off thesidelines and into this,
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- I can tell youvery specifically.
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- I'm a businessman,I rely on contracts.
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- An when they weredoing the car bailouts,
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- president Obama treatedthe bond holders,
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- who had a specificposition in a bankruptcy,
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- which is what the bailoutthe car companies was
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- and basically said,
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- you know, those legal contractsyou have don't matter,
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- I'm the president, we'rejust gonna do this.
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- - I know that when peoplehear the word bankruptcy
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- it can be unsettling.
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- So let me explainexactly what I mean.
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- What I'm talking about is usingour existing legal structure
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- as a tool that,
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- with the backing ofthe US government
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- can make it easier,
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- for general motors andChrysler to quickly clear away
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- old debts that areweighing them down
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- so that they can getback on their feet
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- and onto a path to a success.
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- - And as a businessman,
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- I'm like,
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- Whoa, you know,
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- you've got to havecontract law, you know,
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- if they can tearup these contracts
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- for these powerful bond holders,
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- what could they doto my contracts?
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- And literally that's whatbrought me into the fight.
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- Because I said, if wedon't have contract law,
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- if we don't havethe rule of law,
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- well, then we don'thave a country anymore.
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- - While Americansare finding ways
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- to cut back the DemocratCongress and our president
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- have gone on anunprecedented spending binge,
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- bail out after bail out...
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- - Battle on CapitolHill to respond to that,
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- proposed $25 billion bailout
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- for the struggling bigthree auto makers...
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- - [Reporter] Generalmotors now has flat tires
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- and a dead battery.
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- But Barack Obama's readyto hop in the driver's seat
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- with a $30 billion jumpstart.
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- - Our government will be making
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- a significantadditional investment
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- of about $30 billion, in GM.
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- - [Narrator] Chrysleris a different story.
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- Not viable as astand-alone company,
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- but the government willgive it 30 more days
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- to finish a possibleagreement with Fiat.
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- - One bailout,
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- one of the bailout maygive them six months,
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- may give them a year
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- but they're stillgoing to be sick,
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- they need to restructure.
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- - Understand.
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- We're making these investments
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- not because I wanna spend theAmerican people's tax dollars
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- but because I wantto protect them.
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- - [Announcer] A why go bankrupt,
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- when you can getCongress to bail you out.
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- - This bailout businesssales is getting offensive.
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- I mean, every industry nowis looking for a handout
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- and the only requirementto actually getting one
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- is being a failure.
- 00:08:09.891 --> 00:08:11.359
- - A set of sacrificesfrom all parties involved,
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- management,
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- labor,
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- shareholders,
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- creditors, suppliers, dealers.
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- - Protests acrossthe United States.
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- Tea party protests areerupted across the country.
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- Angry taxpayers, atleast some of them
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- are taking to the streets,
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- in the spirit of theBoston Tea Party.
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- People are protesting
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- president Obama's massive$787 billion stimulus bill,
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- his $3.555 trillion budget
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- and the federal government
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- that has beenballooning by the day
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- since the president took office.
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- - Although I'm anattorney by trade,
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- my wife and I are both homeschoolers and teachers.
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- We teach both in our own family,
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- we teach in familiesin the community.
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- And it was out of that
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- that I was inspired toform an organization
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- called Linchpins of Liberty,
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- which is an American leadershipdevelopment enterprise
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- whose motto is tochallenge the imagination
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- of the rising generation.
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- And we do that bymentoring high school
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- and college studentsin particular,
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- in moral andpolitical philosophy,
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- to give them a taste for freedomand the skills to be free.
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- - I kinda rememberalmost to the day.
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- You know, the light bulbflashing off in my head,
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- that moment of clarity thatI had to do this because,
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- when Obama first gotelected I thought,
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- damn, we're going togive this guy a chance,
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- he can heal a lot of wounds.
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- I mean, there can be a lotof unity going on here.
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- The first thing hedid was Obamacare.
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- This goes so far awayfrom liberty at this point
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- that you know, we'vegotta do something,
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- we've gotta organize,
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- we've gotta starteducating people.
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- So that was kind of the moment.
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- There was like, boom,
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- okay, I gotta getinvolved with this stuff.
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- You know, it all kind of cametogether at the same time
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- and that's when I wentto the group and said,
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- okay, what can I do?
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- - You know, the communitywas looking for some answers
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- and really notseeing those answers
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- when you're talkingabout in the,
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- you know, there are peoplewere put up to be voted on
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- by either party,
- 00:10:03.071 --> 00:10:04.605
- we just sit and feel likethey were speaking to us.
- 00:10:04.605 --> 00:10:06.574
- - We put out a call just ona meet up at the time saying,
- 00:10:06.574 --> 00:10:07.842
- hey, anybody elsefeel like this,
- 00:10:07.842 --> 00:10:11.612
- let's get together and march.
- 00:10:11.612 --> 00:10:13.548
- And we thought we'd have afew people over to our house.
- 00:10:13.548 --> 00:10:15.984
- And we had tons ofpeople emailing, calling.
- 00:10:15.984 --> 00:10:18.686
- Pretty soon, wefigured out real quick,
- 00:10:18.686 --> 00:10:20.154
- we're gonna outgrow our house.
- 00:10:20.154 --> 00:10:21.823
- So we organized vocalgroups at that point
- 00:10:21.823 --> 00:10:23.758
- and all across Kentucky,
- 00:10:23.758 --> 00:10:24.892
- we had eightdifferent local groups
- 00:10:24.892 --> 00:10:26.594
- that then met under theKentucky 912 banner,
- 00:10:26.594 --> 00:10:29.497
- that were just local meetups,that just came together.
- 00:10:29.497 --> 00:10:31.966
- These wasn't politicians.
- 00:10:31.966 --> 00:10:33.534
- - We ended up with over athousand at the noon event
- 00:10:33.534 --> 00:10:36.804
- and close to 2000 atthe evening event.
- 00:10:36.804 --> 00:10:39.741
- So we were like, this is crazy,
- 00:10:39.741 --> 00:10:41.275
- you know, how manypeople showed up.
- 00:10:41.275 --> 00:10:44.078
- - We met on June 30th orsomewhere in the year of 2009.
- 00:10:44.078 --> 00:10:48.016
- We met with three peopleat a Cracker barrel
- 00:10:49.751 --> 00:10:52.553
- and decided to haveour first Tea Party.
- 00:10:52.553 --> 00:10:54.822
- And it was too close toJuly 4th to have one,
- 00:10:54.822 --> 00:10:57.158
- when everyone washaving them, July 4th.
- 00:10:57.158 --> 00:10:58.760
- So our first show was onJuly 11th in Ravenna, Ohio,
- 00:10:58.760 --> 00:11:01.929
- and it was on the lawnof the of the courthouse.
- 00:11:01.929 --> 00:11:05.199
- And we had 345 people showup for our first Tea Party.
- 00:11:05.199 --> 00:11:09.437
- - The meetings thatwe began having,
- 00:11:09.437 --> 00:11:11.305
- right after thatfirst Tea Party,
- 00:11:11.305 --> 00:11:13.074
- we began meeting every month.
- 00:11:13.074 --> 00:11:14.909
- And we would talkabout different issues,
- 00:11:14.909 --> 00:11:16.878
- whether it was fiscal policy
- 00:11:16.878 --> 00:11:19.614
- or the history of our country.
- 00:11:19.614 --> 00:11:21.616
- - The 9/12 project wasgoing to be founded on
- 00:11:21.616 --> 00:11:25.086
- nine principles and 12 values.
- 00:11:25.086 --> 00:11:27.321
- Or another way to look at it,a lot of people talked about,
- 00:11:27.321 --> 00:11:29.123
- it was the day thepeople were after 9/11,
- 00:11:29.123 --> 00:11:32.460
- when we wouldn't,
- 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:33.694
- red States, blue States,we were United States.
- 00:11:33.694 --> 00:11:35.963
- We were United on principles
- 00:11:35.963 --> 00:11:37.698
- and working towardsthe same goal.
- 00:11:37.698 --> 00:11:39.300
- And you really lookedout for your neighbor
- 00:11:39.300 --> 00:11:42.070
- and things were aboutthat local community.
- 00:11:42.070 --> 00:11:43.938
- And that's the way wetried to get back to.
- 00:11:43.938 --> 00:11:45.873
- Principles, values, community.
- 00:11:45.873 --> 00:11:48.176
- That was the bedrocksof the 9/12 project.
- 00:11:48.176 --> 00:11:50.745
- And Kentucky 9/12 project,
- 00:11:50.745 --> 00:11:52.580
- really amplified that inthe state of Kentucky.
- 00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:55.216
- - I'm a teacher,
- 00:11:55.216 --> 00:11:56.684
- I was a homeschool mom andhave an education background.
- 00:11:56.684 --> 00:11:58.986
- I love teaching.
- 00:11:58.986 --> 00:12:00.388
- So for me, I enjoyed theresearch of what was happening.
- 00:12:00.388 --> 00:12:03.858
- And then I wanted to tellothers about these bills
- 00:12:03.858 --> 00:12:06.627
- and what was happening.
- 00:12:06.627 --> 00:12:07.562
- And we would provide outlets
- 00:12:07.562 --> 00:12:09.297
- for people at themeeting to be able to,
- 00:12:09.297 --> 00:12:11.833
- what should they sayto their congressmen?
- 00:12:11.833 --> 00:12:13.434
- What are things thatthey need to be worried
- 00:12:13.434 --> 00:12:15.436
- about certainparts of the bills?
- 00:12:15.436 --> 00:12:17.105
- And we were able tohelp them have a vehicle
- 00:12:17.105 --> 00:12:21.342
- and to let them knowwe are with them,
- 00:12:21.342 --> 00:12:24.545
- we are doing this as well,
- 00:12:24.545 --> 00:12:25.880
- we are making phone calls.
- 00:12:25.880 --> 00:12:27.248
- And I would show peoplehow to make a phone call
- 00:12:27.248 --> 00:12:29.984
- and, you know,give them a script
- 00:12:29.984 --> 00:12:31.452
- if they didn't know what to say.
- 00:12:31.452 --> 00:12:33.721
- And these were all things
- 00:12:33.721 --> 00:12:35.223
- that just helped empower thepeople to be able to stand up
- 00:12:35.223 --> 00:12:38.326
- for what they think is right.
- 00:12:38.326 --> 00:12:39.760
- - We had everything
- 00:12:39.760 --> 00:12:41.162
- from grandmas andgrandpas who were retired,
- 00:12:41.162 --> 00:12:43.164
- maybe teachers, businessmen,clergy, military,
- 00:12:43.164 --> 00:12:48.102
- people that worked in factories.
- 00:12:48.102 --> 00:12:49.770
- We had some that werein law enforcement,
- 00:12:49.770 --> 00:12:52.106
- we had some that wereelected officials.
- 00:12:52.106 --> 00:12:55.510
- We had, I mean,the broad spectrum.
- 00:12:55.510 --> 00:12:58.212
- - [Male Voice]Outside the Capitol,
- 00:12:58.212 --> 00:12:59.680
- a few hundred members of theconservative Tea Party Movement
- 00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:02.083
- called on Congress
- 00:13:02.083 --> 00:13:03.317
- to kill the democratichealthcare reform bill.
- 00:13:03.317 --> 00:13:05.753
- - There's a TeaParty tidal wave,
- 00:13:05.753 --> 00:13:08.389
- and we're sendinga message to them.
- 00:13:08.389 --> 00:13:10.992
- - [Instructor] What makes theso-called Tea Party Movement
- 00:13:12.426 --> 00:13:13.828
- so significant,
- 00:13:13.828 --> 00:13:15.296
- is that it isn't driven byany one personality or issue.
- 00:13:15.296 --> 00:13:18.466
- There's no list ofmembers or chapters.
- 00:13:18.466 --> 00:13:20.935
- Best guess is thatseveral hundred thousand
- 00:13:20.935 --> 00:13:22.970
- participated in one or moreof the protests last year.
- 00:13:22.970 --> 00:13:26.274
- There's no one office or figurewho speaks for the movement.
- 00:13:26.274 --> 00:13:29.644
- - The government takesso much of our money
- 00:13:29.644 --> 00:13:32.013
- and I feel likeit's just endless.
- 00:13:32.013 --> 00:13:34.448
- It never ends,
- 00:13:34.448 --> 00:13:35.783
- it's never enough.
- 00:13:35.783 --> 00:13:37.218
- - The central messagesaround fiscal responsibility
- 00:13:37.218 --> 00:13:39.954
- and there are alot of other issues
- 00:13:39.954 --> 00:13:41.189
- that other peoplefind very important.
- 00:13:41.189 --> 00:13:42.690
- But the driving focuseson fiscal responsibility,
- 00:13:42.690 --> 00:13:45.359
- limited government,free markets.
- 00:13:45.359 --> 00:13:46.961
- - [Female Reporter]Tea party activists
- 00:13:46.961 --> 00:13:48.229
- from all over thestate gathered today
- 00:13:48.229 --> 00:13:50.398
- at the South FloridaWater Management Districts
- 00:13:50.398 --> 00:13:52.767
- monthly board meetings.
- 00:13:52.767 --> 00:13:54.068
- They came to shoulder opposition
- 00:13:54.068 --> 00:13:55.870
- to governor Charlie Chrisproposed $536 million
- 00:13:55.870 --> 00:14:00.374
- Everglade restoration land deal.
- 00:14:00.374 --> 00:14:02.443
- - The tea party movementis an expression
- 00:14:02.443 --> 00:14:04.178
- of what I think is a mainstream
- 00:14:04.178 --> 00:14:05.913
- widespread sentiment in America,that Washington is broken,
- 00:14:05.913 --> 00:14:09.150
- that both parties are to blame.
- 00:14:09.150 --> 00:14:10.685
- - Folks, we've got moreof targeting us coming up.
- 00:14:12.119 --> 00:14:14.088
- It's a great reminder ofthe work that we can do
- 00:14:14.088 --> 00:14:17.425
- regardless of who isin the White House,
- 00:14:17.425 --> 00:14:19.860
- regardless of whocontrols Congress,
- 00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:21.862
- to get justice done,
- 00:14:21.862 --> 00:14:23.364
- to be back some of the mostfeared government agencies
- 00:14:23.364 --> 00:14:25.366
- like the IRS.
- 00:14:25.366 --> 00:14:26.567
- - we're gonna beright back with more
- 00:14:26.567 --> 00:14:28.135
- from "Targeting US".
- 00:14:28.135 --> 00:14:29.870
- (lively music)
- 00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:32.473
- (lively music)
- 00:14:33.276 --> 00:14:35.912
- - So these groups as they grew,
- 00:14:35.912 --> 00:14:37.980
- they needed somekind of legal status.
- 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:40.416
- So they voluntarilyon their own,
- 00:14:40.416 --> 00:14:43.719
- not forced, but voluntarilysubmitted themselves
- 00:14:43.719 --> 00:14:46.856
- to IRS oversight.
- 00:14:46.856 --> 00:14:48.157
- - We decided right off the bat,
- 00:14:48.157 --> 00:14:49.492
- we needed to raise some money
- 00:14:49.492 --> 00:14:50.760
- because we wantedto start a website
- 00:14:50.760 --> 00:14:52.562
- and have an email service.
- 00:14:52.562 --> 00:14:54.230
- And all of thesethings cost money.
- 00:14:54.230 --> 00:14:56.132
- A meeting space, you need topay rent for a meeting space.
- 00:14:56.132 --> 00:14:58.868
- If you fly in a speaker,
- 00:14:58.868 --> 00:15:00.469
- you need to be able todo those kinds of things.
- 00:15:00.469 --> 00:15:03.372
- Everyone at the WetumpkaTea Party is volunteer,
- 00:15:03.372 --> 00:15:05.608
- no one makes any money.
- 00:15:05.608 --> 00:15:07.109
- Every everything that is raised
- 00:15:07.109 --> 00:15:08.778
- is sent right backinto the organization
- 00:15:08.778 --> 00:15:11.514
- so that we can further our work.
- 00:15:11.514 --> 00:15:13.583
- - Quickly, people are like,what are you doing next?
- 00:15:13.583 --> 00:15:16.519
- What do we next?
- 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:17.753
- I didn't know we hada next, you know.
- 00:15:17.753 --> 00:15:19.188
- So we decided, well,we'll have another meeting
- 00:15:19.188 --> 00:15:22.124
- to find out whatpeople wanted to do.
- 00:15:22.124 --> 00:15:23.859
- And we had a meetingat one of the,
- 00:15:23.859 --> 00:15:25.928
- I think one of the VFWs andlike 300 people showed up
- 00:15:25.928 --> 00:15:30.533
- and they decided we weregonna do more things.
- 00:15:30.533 --> 00:15:33.402
- I was like well, if we'regoing to do more things,
- 00:15:33.402 --> 00:15:34.770
- I can't come out of my pocket,
- 00:15:34.770 --> 00:15:36.005
- they can't come outof all of our pockets,
- 00:15:36.005 --> 00:15:37.239
- we have to raise money.
- 00:15:37.239 --> 00:15:39.108
- Well, if you haveto raise money,
- 00:15:39.108 --> 00:15:41.110
- let's get an EIN number, causeI wouldn't put it on my taxes
- 00:15:41.110 --> 00:15:43.679
- and you know, we gonna haveto go up a tax bracket.
- 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.115
- So we got a EIN and figured,
- 00:15:46.115 --> 00:15:49.819
- well, we'll figure out whatkind of an organization
- 00:15:49.819 --> 00:15:51.887
- we're gonna do.
- 00:15:51.887 --> 00:15:53.122
- We got a lot of advicefrom attorneys and CPAs
- 00:15:53.122 --> 00:15:54.690
- and we settled on a (C)(4).
- 00:15:54.690 --> 00:15:56.492
- - So as 501(C)(4) organization,
- 00:15:56.492 --> 00:15:59.328
- gets tax exempt status in The US
- 00:15:59.328 --> 00:16:01.197
- because it promotes somethingrelated to the social welfare.
- 00:16:01.197 --> 00:16:04.734
- It's something that's happeningat your local community
- 00:16:04.734 --> 00:16:07.036
- or in the area you live in.
- 00:16:07.036 --> 00:16:09.038
- So it's a group of citizens.
- 00:16:09.038 --> 00:16:10.539
- Ultimately it's aboutan issue, basically.
- 00:16:10.539 --> 00:16:13.843
- It could be one issue.
- 00:16:13.843 --> 00:16:15.311
- It could be a set of issues
- 00:16:15.311 --> 00:16:16.946
- that you come together towork on and agree upon.
- 00:16:16.946 --> 00:16:20.950
- It's not specificallyfor politics,
- 00:16:20.950 --> 00:16:24.186
- but certainly of coursewhen you deal with issues
- 00:16:24.186 --> 00:16:26.856
- that affect the community,
- 00:16:26.856 --> 00:16:28.457
- ultimately, there's somepolitics that comes into play.
- 00:16:28.457 --> 00:16:31.060
- But it's uniquely laysout how do you do this
- 00:16:31.060 --> 00:16:33.896
- without becoming apolitical action committee.
- 00:16:33.896 --> 00:16:36.165
- without keeping thattaxes up status,
- 00:16:36.165 --> 00:16:39.268
- you go to the IRS and say,
- 00:16:39.268 --> 00:16:41.070
- we want this status,
- 00:16:41.070 --> 00:16:42.471
- so we will submit voluntarilyto your oversight IRS,
- 00:16:42.471 --> 00:16:46.008
- we will abide by the rules,
- 00:16:46.008 --> 00:16:48.077
- we will abide by the reportingrequirements necessary,
- 00:16:48.077 --> 00:16:51.347
- so that we get this statusas a tax exempt organization.
- 00:16:51.347 --> 00:16:54.684
- - I realized we never getanything back from the IRS.
- 00:16:57.253 --> 00:17:00.690
- So we started trying to call.
- 00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:02.525
- - I call the IRS agent,
- 00:17:02.525 --> 00:17:03.993
- I write to them.
- 00:17:03.993 --> 00:17:05.094
- I say, you know,
- 00:17:05.094 --> 00:17:06.896
- when are we gonna get this?
- 00:17:06.896 --> 00:17:08.197
- No respond whatsoever.
- 00:17:08.197 --> 00:17:09.598
- We go all the way through 2011
- 00:17:09.598 --> 00:17:11.734
- and we wanna file our taxes,we wanna do the right thing.
- 00:17:11.734 --> 00:17:15.037
- We wanna,
- 00:17:15.037 --> 00:17:15.871
- We're good citizens.
- 00:17:15.871 --> 00:17:17.139
- We're trying to gethelp them help us.
- 00:17:17.139 --> 00:17:19.875
- Nothing,
- 00:17:19.875 --> 00:17:21.143
- until we get intoJanuary of 2012.
- 00:17:21.143 --> 00:17:24.580
- And in January, 2012,
- 00:17:24.580 --> 00:17:26.248
- I received this letterwith a bunch of questions.
- 00:17:26.248 --> 00:17:30.352
- And as a first course oncewe'd had with them at all,
- 00:17:30.352 --> 00:17:34.123
- and it came out of theblue, we were just shocked,
- 00:17:34.123 --> 00:17:36.192
- I mean, it justcame in the mail.
- 00:17:36.192 --> 00:17:37.426
- And then I started toread these questions
- 00:17:37.426 --> 00:17:39.628
- and that's when thingsreally got interesting.
- 00:17:39.628 --> 00:17:41.564
- - By that time, itwas two years later
- 00:17:41.564 --> 00:17:43.466
- and we got a letter oneevening from the IRS saying,
- 00:17:44.867 --> 00:17:48.671
- they wanted allthis information.
- 00:17:48.671 --> 00:17:50.005
- It was a seven page letter
- 00:17:50.005 --> 00:17:51.841
- that we all knew andimmediately was not right.
- 00:17:53.743 --> 00:17:58.280
- - We finally get aletter from the IRS,
- 00:17:58.280 --> 00:18:01.484
- telling us that they will notapprove our tax exempt status
- 00:18:01.484 --> 00:18:05.087
- unless we answer almost90 more questions.
- 00:18:05.087 --> 00:18:08.824
- Otherwise, if youdon't answer these,
- 00:18:10.326 --> 00:18:12.394
- you'll be taken out and youcan't have a tax exempt status.
- 00:18:12.394 --> 00:18:15.264
- - 30 questions, 70some sub bullets to it,
- 00:18:15.264 --> 00:18:19.201
- a total of 88different inquires.
- 00:18:19.201 --> 00:18:21.137
- - I do audit litigation fora living against the IRS.
- 00:18:21.137 --> 00:18:24.840
- To me, that was like, whoa.
- 00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:26.342
- - The letter thatI got from the IRS
- 00:18:26.342 --> 00:18:28.410
- not only was filled witha gracious questions
- 00:18:28.410 --> 00:18:32.248
- but it gave me avery short timeline
- 00:18:32.248 --> 00:18:34.216
- and a window to answerthose questions.
- 00:18:34.216 --> 00:18:36.152
- - I came in with thepaperwork and I said,
- 00:18:36.152 --> 00:18:38.487
- something's wrong here.I don't know what it is,
- 00:18:38.487 --> 00:18:40.356
- I'm not sure what's goingon yet, but this is,
- 00:18:40.356 --> 00:18:42.525
- something's wrong.
- 00:18:42.525 --> 00:18:43.425
- This is not,
- 00:18:43.425 --> 00:18:44.927
- they shouldn't even be goingin this direction at all.
- 00:18:44.927 --> 00:18:47.797
- - And in these questions
- 00:18:47.797 --> 00:18:49.265
- were questions aboutfamily members of boards,
- 00:18:49.265 --> 00:18:52.401
- there were questionsabout donors
- 00:18:52.401 --> 00:18:55.037
- and activity beyond justthe normal list of donors
- 00:18:55.037 --> 00:19:00.042
- but what their activities andaffiliations were as well.
- 00:19:01.443 --> 00:19:04.346
- I said they would takethousands of hours
- 00:19:04.346 --> 00:19:06.682
- to get all the informationdetailed to what they wanted.
- 00:19:06.682 --> 00:19:10.920
- It would probably takethousands of dollars
- 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:12.688
- to put it all together.
- 00:19:12.688 --> 00:19:14.623
- And they gave ustwo weeks to comply.
- 00:19:14.623 --> 00:19:16.358
- - I rememberstanding at my desk,
- 00:19:16.358 --> 00:19:18.294
- reading the letter from the IRS
- 00:19:18.294 --> 00:19:20.362
- and reading the questionsthat they wanted me to answer.
- 00:19:20.362 --> 00:19:23.833
- And as I read through those,
- 00:19:23.833 --> 00:19:25.968
- at first I was kind of scared
- 00:19:25.968 --> 00:19:27.937
- because when you geta letter from the IRS,
- 00:19:27.937 --> 00:19:30.606
- you think, oh no,I'm in trouble,
- 00:19:30.606 --> 00:19:32.641
- but I knew we hadn'tdone anything,
- 00:19:32.641 --> 00:19:33.943
- but I was kind of scared.
- 00:19:33.943 --> 00:19:35.244
- And then as I readwhat they wanted,
- 00:19:35.244 --> 00:19:37.947
- I became angry.
- 00:19:37.947 --> 00:19:39.748
- The IRS wanted to havenames of all our volunteers,
- 00:19:39.748 --> 00:19:43.352
- board members.
- 00:19:43.352 --> 00:19:45.054
- They wanted copies ofevery speech ever given.
- 00:19:45.054 --> 00:19:47.790
- They wanted to knowwho the speakers were,
- 00:19:47.790 --> 00:19:49.592
- what were their credentials.
- 00:19:49.592 --> 00:19:51.660
- They wanted copies of everyhandout we had ever given.
- 00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:55.064
- They wanted to see everyform of communication
- 00:19:55.064 --> 00:19:57.666
- whether it was an email,a letter, a phone call,
- 00:19:57.666 --> 00:20:01.003
- every communication we hadhad with the legislative body,
- 00:20:01.003 --> 00:20:04.139
- the IRS was demandingthat we send this to them.
- 00:20:04.139 --> 00:20:07.743
- They wanted passwords toplaces on the internet.
- 00:20:07.743 --> 00:20:11.881
- Just unbelievable,
- 00:20:11.881 --> 00:20:13.682
- items that have nothing to dowith the tax exempt status.
- 00:20:15.117 --> 00:20:17.987
- And I think that iswhen I really realized,
- 00:20:17.987 --> 00:20:22.157
- we are being targeted.
- 00:20:22.157 --> 00:20:23.525
- - So we started getting calls
- 00:20:23.525 --> 00:20:25.160
- but just in the beginning,just from a couple
- 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:27.630
- of organizations that hadgot an initial inquiry
- 00:20:27.630 --> 00:20:30.432
- from the InternalRevenue Service.
- 00:20:30.432 --> 00:20:32.201
- And initially you couldn't tell
- 00:20:32.201 --> 00:20:33.636
- whether it was justa local situation
- 00:20:33.636 --> 00:20:36.739
- like what we calla compliance audit
- 00:20:36.739 --> 00:20:39.074
- or whether it was partof a bigger program.
- 00:20:39.074 --> 00:20:41.543
- So initially I think it wasliterally two phone calls.
- 00:20:41.543 --> 00:20:44.713
- And then what happened was overa very short period of time,
- 00:20:44.713 --> 00:20:48.150
- I'm talking about days,
- 00:20:48.150 --> 00:20:49.618
- we realized that there weredozens, maybe hundreds,
- 00:20:49.618 --> 00:20:52.922
- of these inquiryletters out there.
- 00:20:52.922 --> 00:20:54.523
- - This is the IRS, how'reyou gonna fight them?
- 00:20:54.523 --> 00:20:57.927
- How do you fight the government,
- 00:20:58.827 --> 00:20:59.962
- how do you fight the IRS?
- 00:20:59.962 --> 00:21:01.864
- And so a big concern of uswas legal representation.
- 00:21:01.864 --> 00:21:06.602
- So we may be right,
- 00:21:07.870 --> 00:21:09.371
- we may be getting attackby our government,
- 00:21:09.371 --> 00:21:11.173
- but can we defend ourselves?
- 00:21:11.173 --> 00:21:13.542
- So we start talking about,
- 00:21:13.542 --> 00:21:15.644
- well, who could we talk to,
- 00:21:15.644 --> 00:21:17.446
- who could we even reach out tothat might possibly do this.
- 00:21:17.446 --> 00:21:20.883
- And fortunately,and I mean that,
- 00:21:20.883 --> 00:21:22.718
- fortunately, JaySekulow agreed to join
- 00:21:22.718 --> 00:21:25.988
- one of our conference calls.
- 00:21:25.988 --> 00:21:27.389
- - We decided that thebest way to handle this
- 00:21:27.389 --> 00:21:29.291
- was since these groupskind of knew each other
- 00:21:29.291 --> 00:21:31.160
- and had relationswith each other,
- 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:32.995
- to get them all on a call,
- 00:21:32.995 --> 00:21:34.964
- to find out what happened here.
- 00:21:34.964 --> 00:21:37.099
- Getting them all on a call
- 00:21:37.099 --> 00:21:38.133
- so you know what took place.
- 00:21:38.133 --> 00:21:40.269
- - I remember he was on thecall, but he just listened,
- 00:21:40.269 --> 00:21:43.973
- he didn't even say anything,
- 00:21:43.973 --> 00:21:45.441
- for like, I don'tknow, half an hour.
- 00:21:45.441 --> 00:21:47.609
- Okay?
- 00:21:47.609 --> 00:21:48.877
- And these stories arecoming through these,
- 00:21:48.877 --> 00:21:50.779
- the phone lines fromall these people,
- 00:21:50.779 --> 00:21:52.748
- you know, saying,
- 00:21:52.748 --> 00:21:54.216
- oh yeah, they want to knowwhat books we reading,
- 00:21:54.216 --> 00:21:56.318
- and we want a book report
- 00:21:56.318 --> 00:21:57.553
- or you know, we wanted to know
- 00:21:57.553 --> 00:21:59.588
- how many of your board members
- 00:21:59.588 --> 00:22:01.256
- have ever run forpolitical office
- 00:22:01.256 --> 00:22:03.025
- and we want their family name,
- 00:22:03.025 --> 00:22:04.626
- the names of theirfamily members.
- 00:22:04.626 --> 00:22:06.362
- And if any of them haverun for political office
- 00:22:06.362 --> 00:22:08.263
- and we wanna knowif they ever plan
- 00:22:08.263 --> 00:22:09.999
- to run for political office.
- 00:22:09.999 --> 00:22:11.367
- And you're going, Whoa,Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
- 00:22:11.367 --> 00:22:13.869
- And Jay Sekulowbroke it on the call.
- 00:22:13.869 --> 00:22:16.438
- And he just said,
- 00:22:16.438 --> 00:22:18.173
- he said, I'm gonnatell you right now,
- 00:22:18.173 --> 00:22:19.775
- we will represent all ofyou, you know, for this,
- 00:22:19.775 --> 00:22:23.145
- this is completely wrong.
- 00:22:23.145 --> 00:22:24.680
- This is something that's,
- 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:25.714
- I've never seen this before.
- 00:22:25.714 --> 00:22:27.249
- I've never heard of this before.
- 00:22:27.249 --> 00:22:28.817
- And the ACLJ is going tostand up and fight for you
- 00:22:28.817 --> 00:22:32.287
- in this case.
- 00:22:32.287 --> 00:22:33.722
- And that was a hugerelief because until then,
- 00:22:33.722 --> 00:22:36.291
- we weren't sure how we'regoing to fight back.
- 00:22:36.291 --> 00:22:38.160
- - What we found out onthat large conference call
- 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.796
- was that everybody wasbeing asked the same thing.
- 00:22:40.796 --> 00:22:43.932
- From all thesedifferent offices,
- 00:22:43.932 --> 00:22:45.567
- they were tryingto shut groups down
- 00:22:45.567 --> 00:22:47.936
- that they disagreed with.
- 00:22:47.936 --> 00:22:49.304
- This was very, very serious.
- 00:22:49.304 --> 00:22:50.873
- - At that point, we were scared,
- 00:22:50.873 --> 00:22:53.142
- we were intimidated.
- 00:22:53.142 --> 00:22:54.943
- To have an organization withthe power that the IRS has
- 00:22:54.943 --> 00:22:59.948
- breathing down your neckand threatening things
- 00:23:01.116 --> 00:23:02.484
- is incredibly intimidating.
- 00:23:02.484 --> 00:23:04.386
- For an average American,I mean, it was just like,
- 00:23:04.386 --> 00:23:06.955
- oh, could they comeafter our spouses jobs,
- 00:23:06.955 --> 00:23:09.024
- could they,
- 00:23:09.024 --> 00:23:10.292
- you know, what's goingto happen to us here?
- 00:23:10.292 --> 00:23:11.960
- We were frightened.
- 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:13.495
- And I'll never forget whatJay said when he said,
- 00:23:13.495 --> 00:23:15.898
- well, you know, we'regoing to handle this.
- 00:23:15.898 --> 00:23:17.833
- And he said,
- 00:23:17.833 --> 00:23:19.368
- he said, I know all of youare frightened by this,
- 00:23:19.368 --> 00:23:22.104
- and I just want you toknow we've got your back
- 00:23:22.104 --> 00:23:25.474
- and we're going tobe taken care of this
- 00:23:25.474 --> 00:23:27.609
- and it's going to be okay.
- 00:23:27.609 --> 00:23:29.344
- And I felt like theweight of the world
- 00:23:29.344 --> 00:23:32.881
- was off of my shoulders.
- 00:23:32.881 --> 00:23:35.017
- I mean, I just,
- 00:23:35.017 --> 00:23:35.851
- I finally felt like,
- 00:23:35.851 --> 00:23:37.686
- I could take a deep breath
- 00:23:37.686 --> 00:23:39.021
- and it was going to be okay.
- 00:23:39.021 --> 00:23:40.756
- - Every week.
- 00:23:40.756 --> 00:23:41.990
- And during every one ofour broadcasts on TBN,
- 00:23:41.990 --> 00:23:44.460
- I wanna thank everyone at TBN
- 00:23:44.460 --> 00:23:47.229
- and the Crouch family,Matt and Laurie Crouch
- 00:23:47.229 --> 00:23:50.532
- for providing access to theACLJ as they have for many years
- 00:23:50.532 --> 00:23:53.802
- to bring you thisbroadcast at no cost.
- 00:23:53.802 --> 00:23:56.672
- So at the ACLJ caninform TBN viewers,
- 00:23:56.672 --> 00:24:00.642
- whatever platformthey're viewing on
- 00:24:00.642 --> 00:24:02.344
- about the work that we're doing
- 00:24:02.344 --> 00:24:04.079
- at no cost to the ACLJ.
- 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:05.914
- So thank you TBN.
- 00:24:05.914 --> 00:24:07.483
- Thank you Matt and Laurie,
- 00:24:07.483 --> 00:24:08.650
- we will talk to y'll next time.
- 00:24:08.650 --> 00:24:10.519
- (Lively music)
- 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:13.088
- (upbeat music)
- 00:24:22.331 --> 00:24:24.933