Better Together

Healing from Church Hurt - Episode 1089

August 28, 2025 | S7 E1089 | 52:34

Our deepest wounds can come from those we thought we could trust. Church hurt is real, but God is faithful to heal. Don't allow pain to hold your heart captive! We can find freedom and restoration in honest conversations and the overflow of God's grace. | TBN Prayer Line: 714-731-1000

Closed captions

Show Timecode

Better Together | Healing from Church Hurt - Episode 1089 | August 28, 2025

If you have ever been hurt by the church or maybe offended by
00:00:01.647 --> 00:00:05.484
Your pastor, today's conversation is for you.
00:00:05.484 --> 00:00:08.520
Healing is possible and forgiveness holds the key.
00:00:08.520 --> 00:00:11.557
Come on, join us.
00:00:11.557 --> 00:00:12.724
♪♪
00:00:12.724 --> 00:00:41.053
So ladies, this week we've been talking about church, the
00:00:41.053 --> 00:00:43.689
Importance of church, some of our feelings with church.
00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:46.792
And we've come to a point in our conversation where we just
00:00:46.792 --> 00:00:49.161
Have to have an honest conversation about a lot of
00:00:49.161 --> 00:00:52.431
Narratives have been going on in culture about this
00:00:52.431 --> 00:00:55.067
Particular phrase, church hurt. yeah.
00:00:55.067 --> 00:00:57.202
And not just a phrase, but an actual feeling.
00:00:57.202 --> 00:01:00.038
Yeah. and so as a leader in my community, i'm hearing so many
00:01:00.038 --> 00:01:04.443
People say the church hurt me, the church hurt me.
00:01:04.443 --> 00:01:07.379
So we want this conversation to not just state a problem, but
00:01:07.379 --> 00:01:11.183
Also create conversation for healing.
00:01:11.183 --> 00:01:13.552
Yeah. so i'm going to let everyone know this conversation
00:01:13.552 --> 00:01:15.988
Is going to be split almost in two.
00:01:15.988 --> 00:01:17.723
We're going to have a conversation about where we as
00:01:17.723 --> 00:01:20.759
Leaders have unintentionally hurt people,
00:01:20.759 --> 00:01:24.396
Maybe some of the hurt that you've expressed, sheep coming
00:01:24.396 --> 00:01:26.765
To you and talking about another church,
00:01:26.765 --> 00:01:28.934
But the latter part of the conversation, i really want to
00:01:28.934 --> 00:01:31.203
Start focusing on how do we heal from church hurt.
00:01:31.203 --> 00:01:34.706
Yeah. so i'm going to let
00:01:34.706 --> 00:01:36.308
Everyone know where we're going. start with the end in mind.
00:01:36.308 --> 00:01:39.111
Have you ever had a bad drink served to you at starbucks?
00:01:39.111 --> 00:01:44.349
Yes.
00:01:44.550 --> 00:01:45.384
Have you ever gone to a restaurant,
00:01:45.384 --> 00:01:47.386
Maybe even a favorite restaurant,
00:01:47.386 --> 00:01:48.787
And somebody got your order wrong?
00:01:48.787 --> 00:01:50.289
Yes. yeah.
00:01:50.289 --> 00:01:51.523
Have you ever had a loving conversation with a friend and
00:01:51.523 --> 00:01:54.326
Yet they hurt your feelings? mhm.
00:01:54.326 --> 00:01:56.128
And yet we still go back to starbucks and we still go
00:01:56.128 --> 00:02:00.065
Back to our favorite restaurants.
00:02:00.065 --> 00:02:01.600
And we still give grace for our friends.
00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:04.102
But for some reason, when it comes to the church, an offense,
00:02:04.102 --> 00:02:09.274
A hurt, a word,
00:02:09.274 --> 00:02:11.643
A public failing wrecks our faith, not just with that
00:02:11.643 --> 00:02:15.714
Church community, but with our view from god.
00:02:15.714 --> 00:02:18.250
Wow. i want us to have a healthy, loving, earnest
00:02:18.250 --> 00:02:21.920
Conversation about the effects of that.
00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:24.656
And then how do we heal from that?
00:02:24.656 --> 00:02:26.458
So good. so let's start there.
00:02:26.458 --> 00:02:29.361
I think one of the things-- um, i was serving in youth
00:02:29.361 --> 00:02:32.931
Ministry, actually, at my dad's church.
00:02:32.931 --> 00:02:35.133
Love my dad.
00:02:35.133 --> 00:02:36.535
There's an amazing call upon his life.
00:02:36.535 --> 00:02:38.036
He is 72 years old.
00:02:38.036 --> 00:02:39.204
He is still preaching multiple services on sunday and a
00:02:39.204 --> 00:02:41.940
Midweek bible study.
00:02:41.940 --> 00:02:42.774
That's the church i was raised in.
00:02:42.774 --> 00:02:43.909
Sundays and wednesdays.
00:02:43.909 --> 00:02:44.943
Prayer meetings on fridays, like
00:02:44.943 --> 00:02:46.678
We did the most at daddy's church.
00:02:46.678 --> 00:02:48.747
In that context, women were
00:02:48.747 --> 00:02:50.048
Definitely esteemed, not empowered.
00:02:50.048 --> 00:02:52.117
So i had no paradigm of women leading.
00:02:52.117 --> 00:02:54.953
And i began to lead.
00:02:54.953 --> 00:02:56.154
And the girls in youth ministry, we just started to
00:02:56.154 --> 00:02:58.590
Multiply like rabbits.
00:02:58.590 --> 00:02:59.958
And then more kids were coming up and they, both girls and
00:02:59.958 --> 00:03:03.095
Guys were asking me to do bible studies, and i would plan
00:03:03.095 --> 00:03:05.697
Events and kids would come.
00:03:05.697 --> 00:03:06.999
And other youth pastors, they were not getting that sort of
00:03:06.999 --> 00:03:10.435
Affection or attention.
00:03:10.435 --> 00:03:11.737
I didn't realize it at the time that it was going to cause
00:03:11.737 --> 00:03:14.740
Such a hiccup.
00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:16.041
And so those particular leaders spoke very honestly and openly
00:03:16.041 --> 00:03:19.478
About how they felt about me.
00:03:19.478 --> 00:03:20.912
I don't have to dig that deep to resurrect the wounds of
00:03:20.912 --> 00:03:25.484
Remembering the things that they said about me.
00:03:25.484 --> 00:03:28.020
If i would have let that stop me from pursuing the god call
00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:31.990
Upon my life, i would have
00:03:31.990 --> 00:03:34.393
Missed out on so many blessings.
00:03:34.393 --> 00:03:36.395
So we're going to open up the conversation and talk about
00:03:36.395 --> 00:03:38.830
Things and people and places that have hurt us, while giving
00:03:38.830 --> 00:03:42.401
License and liberty to the truth.
00:03:42.401 --> 00:03:44.636
If you let other people thwart the god call upon your life,
00:03:44.636 --> 00:03:48.840
It's doing you a disservice.
00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:51.076
There's a lot of beneficial
00:03:51.677 --> 00:03:53.045
Reasons to heal from church hurt.
00:03:53.045 --> 00:03:54.646
But here's my hot take and it's my opinion,
00:03:54.646 --> 00:03:57.149
I firmly believe that if you do not get over a fence and hurt,
00:03:57.149 --> 00:04:01.053
It will stop or slow down
00:04:01.053 --> 00:04:03.221
What god's call upon your life is to accomplish.
00:04:03.221 --> 00:04:06.725
Let me tell you a story.
00:04:06.725 --> 00:04:08.960
Had i allowed other people's commentary on my life, or
00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:13.098
Commentary on who i was, or criticism of the call upon my
00:04:13.098 --> 00:04:16.902
Life, i would have allowed them to stop what god was inviting
00:04:16.902 --> 00:04:20.105
Me to do.
00:04:20.105 --> 00:04:21.239
My fear is that if we don't stop and heal from those
00:04:21.239 --> 00:04:24.376
Wounds, then we'll become the wounded healer, and we'll try
00:04:24.376 --> 00:04:28.380
To lead people from a place of brokenness rather than a place
00:04:28.380 --> 00:04:32.651
Of wholeness.
00:04:32.651 --> 00:04:33.885
For some, it might take time.
00:04:33.885 --> 00:04:35.120
For some, it might require mourning.
00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:37.689
For some, it might require counseling.
00:04:37.689 --> 00:04:39.391
But i'm really going to encourage you to allow space
00:04:39.391 --> 00:04:42.494
And time to heal so that you can lead and accomplish what
00:04:42.494 --> 00:04:45.630
God has called you to accomplish from a place of
00:04:45.630 --> 00:04:47.499
Health, not a place of brokenness.
00:04:47.499 --> 00:04:49.935
Where have we--
00:04:50.302 --> 00:04:51.603
Not just experienced hurt ourselves, as pastors and
00:04:52.671 --> 00:04:55.640
Leaders in this christian community,
00:04:55.640 --> 00:04:56.942
I'm asking us to tell on ourselves.
00:04:56.942 --> 00:04:59.010
Where have we failed unintentionally or
00:04:59.010 --> 00:05:02.581
Intentionally, people that god has entrusted to us?
00:05:02.581 --> 00:05:05.684
Yeah, i think people need to feel seen in this moment.
00:05:05.684 --> 00:05:08.353
So good. that's a great question.
00:05:08.353 --> 00:05:10.889
I think one of the things that we've identified about our
00:05:10.889 --> 00:05:14.593
Leadership over the last few years is that in church
00:05:14.593 --> 00:05:17.462
Planting, um, you know, both my husband and i, we have similar
00:05:17.462 --> 00:05:21.366
Personalities and we're both very driven and we run fast and
00:05:21.366 --> 00:05:25.637
We run hard, and we're passionate about building the
00:05:25.637 --> 00:05:29.274
Kingdom of god and visionary and full of faith.
00:05:29.274 --> 00:05:33.111
I think you have to be if you're going to start a church.
00:05:33.111 --> 00:05:35.347
And, um, i think over the last 12 years, the first few, we
00:05:35.347 --> 00:05:42.020
Didn't necessarily see this, but probably, you know, 5 or 6
00:05:42.020 --> 00:05:45.924
Years in, we had to come to this realization that we, we
00:05:45.924 --> 00:05:52.097
Can run really fast, but not
00:05:52.097 --> 00:05:54.566
Everyone else has that same capacity.
00:05:54.566 --> 00:05:57.135
So we learned that through hard conversations with people who
00:05:57.135 --> 00:06:00.772
Were feeling really hurt and feeling unseen and, um, feeling
00:06:00.772 --> 00:06:05.677
As though we missed caring for them in the attempts--
00:06:05.677 --> 00:06:09.714
We talked about this earlier this week, like the drive to
00:06:09.714 --> 00:06:12.517
Get things done, the, you know, move things forward.
00:06:12.517 --> 00:06:16.054
Um, i think that we unintentionally were expecting
00:06:16.054 --> 00:06:20.959
Everyone to run at the same pace that we could run at.
00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.895
And, um, and that was putting an unfair pressure on people
00:06:23.895 --> 00:06:28.366
Who were a part of the team.
00:06:28.366 --> 00:06:29.801
And they felt in those moments they felt really unseen.
00:06:29.801 --> 00:06:33.004
And like their life and their story and their families
00:06:33.004 --> 00:06:36.007
Weren't important.
00:06:36.007 --> 00:06:37.142
And that was never what we preached.
00:06:37.142 --> 00:06:38.510
It was never the words that came out of our mouth.
00:06:38.510 --> 00:06:40.445
In fact, we're we're big, uh, communicators on a sabbath and
00:06:40.445 --> 00:06:45.250
That we're all ridiculously in charge of our own schedule and
00:06:45.250 --> 00:06:47.986
Our calendars and managing those well.
00:06:47.986 --> 00:06:50.021
And while i still believe that to be true, i can
00:06:50.021 --> 00:06:53.458
Simultaneously say yes, each of us are responsible for how we
00:06:53.458 --> 00:06:57.128
Steward ourselves,
00:06:57.128 --> 00:06:58.597
But if the people that we were leading did not feel seen and
00:06:58.597 --> 00:07:02.501
Did not feel known, it did not feel pastored or encouraged,
00:07:02.501 --> 00:07:05.237
Then we missed the mark.
00:07:05.237 --> 00:07:06.671
And so we've had many conversations where we've had
00:07:06.671 --> 00:07:09.241
To apologize for missing it.
00:07:09.241 --> 00:07:11.142
Um, but i think that's the point is getting to a place of
00:07:11.142 --> 00:07:14.212
Conversation. um, when we've
00:07:14.212 --> 00:07:16.781
Experienced hurt church hurts specifically,
00:07:16.781 --> 00:07:20.252
Most people just walk away.
00:07:20.252 --> 00:07:21.953
And, um, i'm really grateful for a handful of people who've
00:07:21.953 --> 00:07:26.157
Been willing to navigate hard
00:07:26.157 --> 00:07:28.527
Conversations and fight for reconciliation.
00:07:28.527 --> 00:07:31.630
Um, but that's been some of our journey.
00:07:31.630 --> 00:07:34.633
If you haven't been hurt by someone within your church
00:07:34.633 --> 00:07:37.869
Community, the first thing you do is not go to instagram and
00:07:37.869 --> 00:07:42.908
Leave me in comments about them on their instagram post.
00:07:42.908 --> 00:07:46.545
It's not reaching out to other people who don't like this
00:07:46.545 --> 00:07:49.281
Person, and then gossiping and complaining to each other.
00:07:49.281 --> 00:07:53.018
That is how to create a spiral of more hurt and more division
00:07:53.018 --> 00:07:57.188
And more gossip, which is what got you into this position in
00:07:57.188 --> 00:07:59.658
The first place.
00:07:59.658 --> 00:08:00.959
So i would say to pray on and consider who is someone safe in
00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:04.129
The church you can bring that to.
00:08:04.129 --> 00:08:05.964
That might be a leader.
00:08:05.964 --> 00:08:07.599
That might be a pastor, that might be someone in your small
00:08:07.599 --> 00:08:10.569
Group, someone who loves god and loves people, not someone
00:08:10.569 --> 00:08:14.239
Who also has a bunch of wounds that haven't been healed yet,
00:08:14.239 --> 00:08:18.510
But someone that can help speak the truth into your life and
00:08:18.510 --> 00:08:21.346
Bring real resolve.
00:08:21.346 --> 00:08:23.214
I would pray on that because i don't know who that person is
00:08:23.214 --> 00:08:25.250
At your church, but it might be someone in your small group, a
00:08:25.250 --> 00:08:28.253
Leader, or a pastor.
00:08:28.253 --> 00:08:29.888
Um, and that is the first step that you need to do before you
00:08:29.888 --> 00:08:35.260
Bring it to anybody else.
00:08:35.260 --> 00:08:36.695
Bring it to someone who's wise, who loves god, and who wants to
00:08:36.695 --> 00:08:40.732
See your life flourish.
00:08:40.732 --> 00:08:43.401
I think it's important to recognize that intentional or
00:08:44.536 --> 00:08:49.808
Unintentional hurt is still hurt.
00:08:49.808 --> 00:08:52.110
Yeah. and i'm sure many stories out there where there was maybe
00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:55.714
Some intentional, you know, hurt, i don't know, but but i
00:08:55.714 --> 00:08:59.184
Think the majority from a leadership position would say
00:08:59.184 --> 00:09:03.188
It was unintentional that hurt was caused.
00:09:03.188 --> 00:09:06.591
Um, but it's still very valid to the person, to
00:09:06.591 --> 00:09:09.861
The person that they were hurt and i think just we
00:09:09.861 --> 00:09:14.699
Are in a culture where that's more common to talk about.
00:09:14.699 --> 00:09:18.036
I don't know that we ever did.
00:09:18.036 --> 00:09:19.237
I don't think i ever heard--
00:09:19.237 --> 00:09:20.872
It's kind of like childhood allergies.
00:09:20.872 --> 00:09:23.441
I never heard of childhood allergies.
00:09:23.441 --> 00:09:25.443
And now every kid has allergies.
00:09:25.443 --> 00:09:27.445
I never heard of church hurt. and now it's,
00:09:27.445 --> 00:09:30.515
It's all people. just hear a lot of conversations.
00:09:30.515 --> 00:09:33.985
It's just in different states.
00:09:33.985 --> 00:09:35.887
Everybody understands church hurt.
00:09:35.887 --> 00:09:37.389
And i think it's important that we're having these
00:09:37.389 --> 00:09:39.858
Conversations, because there really are a lot of people who
00:09:39.858 --> 00:09:44.896
I think it could be a combination where sometimes
00:09:44.896 --> 00:09:50.735
People put expectations on their leaders that they'll
00:09:50.735 --> 00:09:54.005
Never be able to attain, and hurting them is going to be the
00:09:54.005 --> 00:09:58.510
Inevitable outcome, because the expectation of what it looks
00:09:58.510 --> 00:10:02.881
Like to be a congregant to its i'm coming in and i'm expecting
00:10:02.881 --> 00:10:08.219
A lot of service to me.
00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:11.256
Like i'm expecting the word to always be this and the worship
00:10:11.256 --> 00:10:13.625
To always be this, and every program to be run this way.
00:10:13.625 --> 00:10:16.027
And so that we have to acknowledge that there is some
00:10:16.027 --> 00:10:19.898
Of that, that there is expectations that people put on
00:10:19.898 --> 00:10:23.401
The church that nobody could ever meet.
00:10:23.401 --> 00:10:26.838
But i do think there is order in how churches should operate.
00:10:26.838 --> 00:10:33.445
That's when, when order starts getting chaotic and out of
00:10:33.445 --> 00:10:37.048
Order and vision is distorted and purpose starts getting when
00:10:37.048 --> 00:10:41.953
That starts happening.
00:10:41.953 --> 00:10:43.321
And that could be that could look like a lot of things.
00:10:43.321 --> 00:10:45.757
It could end up looking like a moral failure.
00:10:45.757 --> 00:10:47.692
It could end up looking like financial impropriety.
00:10:47.692 --> 00:10:50.161
It could look like a lot of things.
00:10:50.161 --> 00:10:51.963
But when that starts happening, inevitably from the top down,
00:10:51.963 --> 00:10:55.934
Your people will start getting hurt because you're operating
00:10:55.934 --> 00:10:58.503
Sometimes out of pride.
00:10:58.503 --> 00:11:00.238
Now you're operating out of chasing a vision that god
00:11:00.238 --> 00:11:03.775
Hasn't anointed. there's there's a lot of, a lot
00:11:03.775 --> 00:11:07.178
Of things that you have to consider.
00:11:07.178 --> 00:11:08.747
So it's such a good conversation.
00:11:08.747 --> 00:11:11.282
I'm so glad that you have created this space to to really
00:11:11.282 --> 00:11:15.286
Talk about both sides. it's really good.
00:11:15.286 --> 00:11:18.289
As we go through this conversation, i feel like the
00:11:18.289 --> 00:11:20.759
Conversation of church hurt,
00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:23.027
Somebody needs to feel validated.
00:11:23.027 --> 00:11:26.197
And as i was thinking about this conversation, i just
00:11:26.197 --> 00:11:29.934
Want to pause.
00:11:29.934 --> 00:11:31.202
I am not trying to represent any religious organization or
00:11:31.202 --> 00:11:36.274
One particular person, but for those who have experienced
00:11:36.274 --> 00:11:39.477
Hurt, for those who feel a sense of betrayal, like they
00:11:39.477 --> 00:11:42.313
Followed a pastor and they let them down either morally,
00:11:42.313 --> 00:11:45.517
Financially, or relationally,
00:11:45.517 --> 00:11:47.685
For somebody who trusted in the vision of a pastor, if somebody
00:11:47.685 --> 00:11:52.157
Has felt like they've been led
00:11:52.157 --> 00:11:53.158
Astray or hurt or made to feel away,
00:11:53.158 --> 00:11:56.528
I just want to pause and recognize that you feel hurt.
00:11:56.528 --> 00:12:01.099
I don't know what that hurt is, but to the person who's on the
00:12:01.099 --> 00:12:03.535
Other side of the screen who's feeling a deep sense of hurt, i
00:12:03.535 --> 00:12:07.172
Validate that feeling of hurt. yeah.
00:12:07.172 --> 00:12:09.440
And maybe that's just what you need to hear.
00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.276
Yeah. yeah.
00:12:11.276 --> 00:12:12.510
And you're validated because somebody hurt your feelings.
00:12:12.510 --> 00:12:14.813
They might have a different perspective, but i know that in
00:12:14.813 --> 00:12:19.751
20 years of leadership, i'm
00:12:19.751 --> 00:12:21.920
Pretty sure i've hurt people's feelings.
00:12:21.920 --> 00:12:23.755
Absolutely. it's never been my intention.
00:12:23.755 --> 00:12:24.656
It's never the goal. right.
00:12:24.656 --> 00:12:27.025
I have a lump in my throat thinking about it
00:12:27.025 --> 00:12:29.527
Because you don't set out to
00:12:29.527 --> 00:12:31.362
Represent jesus and hurt people. right.
00:12:31.362 --> 00:12:33.665
But in the course of our broken humanity, even church
00:12:33.665 --> 00:12:38.102
Leaders are incredibly frail and human.
00:12:38.102 --> 00:12:41.306
And we're going to get it wrong.
00:12:41.306 --> 00:12:43.141
And so for every person that i have hurt, deeply sorry.
00:12:43.141 --> 00:12:47.312
And for every person who's watching, validate and seen.
00:12:47.312 --> 00:12:50.415
Yeah. my fear is that we want to stay
00:12:50.415 --> 00:12:53.585
In a generation of wound lickers.
00:12:53.585 --> 00:12:56.120
Yeah.
00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:57.222
As in, i don't know if you guys are a fan of cats.
00:12:57.222 --> 00:12:59.324
If you are, i'm so sorry
00:12:59.324 --> 00:13:00.725
Because i'm going to say something about cats, but cats
00:13:00.725 --> 00:13:02.727
Are historically known as wound lickers, so they will get
00:13:02.727 --> 00:13:05.363
Infectious diseases because if they have a wound, they just
00:13:05.363 --> 00:13:08.266
Lick their wounds and they're bringing tons of bacteria in.
00:13:08.266 --> 00:13:11.469
And what i'm seeing is a generation of [meowing]
00:13:11.469 --> 00:13:14.005
Yeah. and they just want to sit here and lick wounds.
00:13:14.005 --> 00:13:16.908
Yeah. you were hurt.
00:13:16.908 --> 00:13:18.176
Yeah. but instead of wound
00:13:18.176 --> 00:13:19.377
Licking, can we treat that wound?
00:13:19.377 --> 00:13:21.980
Can we get health and healing? right.
00:13:21.980 --> 00:13:23.915
Because my fear is that we're getting people going
00:13:23.915 --> 00:13:26.451
Septic and toxic because of wound licking and not tending
00:13:26.451 --> 00:13:30.255
To the wounds that are there.
00:13:30.255 --> 00:13:32.023
So validate the pain, validate the hurt, take ownership in it.
00:13:32.023 --> 00:13:36.828
And what can we do to move forward to make sure that we
00:13:36.828 --> 00:13:39.631
Are healing from the hurt? yeah.
00:13:39.631 --> 00:13:42.000
Because you talked about this a few days ago,
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.203
You talked about the fact that resentment is a block to
00:13:45.203 --> 00:13:48.006
Intimacy with god.
00:13:48.006 --> 00:13:49.641
And i am afraid so many people are nursing and rehearsing
00:13:49.641 --> 00:13:53.311
Their pain and their hurt, and it's becoming
00:13:53.311 --> 00:13:57.282
Resentment or unforgiveness.
00:13:57.282 --> 00:13:59.517
And it's not only putting up walls between you and other
00:13:59.517 --> 00:14:02.687
People and community of faith, but it's also walls between
00:14:02.687 --> 00:14:05.256
You and god.
00:14:05.256 --> 00:14:06.491
And in order to tear those walls down, we have to actually
00:14:06.491 --> 00:14:09.260
Be willing to to heal and to go through the process.
00:14:09.260 --> 00:14:11.796
That's beautiful.
00:14:11.796 --> 00:14:13.564
Getting stuck in church hurt
00:14:14.165 --> 00:14:16.000
Can feel almost righteous sometimes.
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.170
It may feel almost like a noble thing to do.
00:14:19.170 --> 00:14:22.273
Um, but sometimes when that happens, then you become formed
00:14:22.273 --> 00:14:25.743
By bitterness and you become more impacted by your bitter
00:14:25.743 --> 00:14:30.114
Roots than you are by god and his truth.
00:14:30.114 --> 00:14:32.984
It says, where the spirit of the lord is, there is freedom.
00:14:32.984 --> 00:14:36.187
And if we are keeping ourselves from freedom, then we're also
00:14:36.187 --> 00:14:39.290
Denying his presence.
00:14:39.290 --> 00:14:41.426
We want you to join the conversation and connect with
00:14:42.493 --> 00:14:44.896
Us on social media.
00:14:44.896 --> 00:14:46.197
Ask a question, share a prayer request, and make friends with
00:14:46.197 --> 00:14:48.833
All the women all over the world.
00:14:48.833 --> 00:14:50.401
We are better together.
00:14:50.401 --> 00:14:52.070
Let's keep the conversation going.
00:14:52.837 --> 00:14:55.039
You can find the better together podcast on your
00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:57.408
Favorite listening platform.
00:14:57.408 --> 00:14:59.310
Subscribe today!
00:14:59.310 --> 00:15:03.990
Subscribe today!
00:15:03.990 --> 00:15:05.950
I think differentiating what it is that you feel in you,
00:15:07.085 --> 00:15:10.888
Because from where i'm sitting and the amount of people that i
00:15:10.888 --> 00:15:13.358
Speak to every week that are trying to put words to what
00:15:13.358 --> 00:15:16.728
They feel, sometimes it is a real hurt that someone,
00:15:16.728 --> 00:15:22.100
Someone did you wrong.
00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:23.768
Yeah. someone that should have
00:15:23.768 --> 00:15:24.902
Been trustworthy was not trustworthy.
00:15:24.902 --> 00:15:26.804
There was injustice done towards you or someone you
00:15:26.804 --> 00:15:29.374
Love, and that is a real wound.
00:15:29.374 --> 00:15:32.276
But then there are some people that have like a couple of
00:15:32.276 --> 00:15:34.746
Weird interactions or bad interactions that were maybe
00:15:34.746 --> 00:15:37.982
Socially awkward and maybe not their preference.
00:15:37.982 --> 00:15:40.885
And then yeah, like church hurt too.
00:15:40.885 --> 00:15:43.388
But i don't know that i would put this in the same category
00:15:43.388 --> 00:15:46.891
As this. yeah.
00:15:46.891 --> 00:15:47.925
And then i would feel like there's this other
00:15:47.925 --> 00:15:49.560
Category that's like, you just don't like that culture.
00:15:49.560 --> 00:15:52.563
That's not your preference.
00:15:52.563 --> 00:15:53.931
So i have all this church hurt,
00:15:53.931 --> 00:15:54.766
You know, i don't like the music.
00:15:54.766 --> 00:15:55.566
I don't like the style.
00:15:55.566 --> 00:15:56.401
The people are kind of annoying.
00:15:56.401 --> 00:15:57.435
It's like, oh, that's a preference of style.
00:15:57.435 --> 00:15:59.937
Taste in music, the worship.
00:15:59.937 --> 00:16:01.139
You don't like how that pastor dresses.
00:16:01.139 --> 00:16:03.007
I'm not saying that all that your preferences are wrong.
00:16:03.007 --> 00:16:05.243
I'm saying that in a time when a lot of people are saying, i
00:16:05.243 --> 00:16:11.082
Just don't go to church because of my church hurt, here's what
00:16:11.082 --> 00:16:14.318
I think the enemy might be doing is giving us the ultimate
00:16:14.318 --> 00:16:17.855
Excuse, the ultimate, um,
00:16:17.855 --> 00:16:20.224
Phrasing to keep us far from god.
00:16:20.224 --> 00:16:23.227
Because if this is true and real hurt, then we must say it.
00:16:23.227 --> 00:16:27.532
We must address what it is, who did it, what was done
00:16:27.532 --> 00:16:30.068
Because we need to heal, right?
00:16:30.068 --> 00:16:31.669
And this must be addressed.
00:16:31.669 --> 00:16:33.738
So as you're talking about that, i'm like, these are real
00:16:33.738 --> 00:16:35.706
Things that people go through. there's some real hurt.
00:16:35.706 --> 00:16:37.909
And then there's some like weird stuff, and then there's
00:16:37.909 --> 00:16:40.344
Just stuff that you don't love.
00:16:40.344 --> 00:16:41.746
Okay, so i'm talking to my believers here because
00:16:42.747 --> 00:16:45.650
We're talking about what responsibility
00:16:45.650 --> 00:16:47.552
Do we have to stop the cycle of church hurt?
00:16:47.552 --> 00:16:50.388
And i'm going to call you up higher.
00:16:50.388 --> 00:16:52.623
We have to get outside of
00:16:53.191 --> 00:16:55.893
Our self, our selfish desires, the thing that
00:16:55.893 --> 00:16:58.563
Feels better to us are comfortable to us.
00:16:58.563 --> 00:17:01.132
We have to step. outside that comfort zone.
00:17:01.132 --> 00:17:03.601
We have to forgive.
00:17:03.601 --> 00:17:05.136
We have to stop in these. cycles of gossip, slander.
00:17:05.136 --> 00:17:08.573
We have to be encouraging.
00:17:08.573 --> 00:17:10.241
We need to be women who
00:17:10.775 --> 00:17:12.610
Are going to edify the body,
00:17:12.610 --> 00:17:15.246
Encourage the body.
00:17:15.246 --> 00:17:16.514
Now, there may be times that we also have to
00:17:16.514 --> 00:17:18.950
In love confront the body.
00:17:18.950 --> 00:17:21.018
But i tell you, we have to be committed to end the
00:17:21.018 --> 00:17:23.621
Cycle of church hurt because it's always about the end game.
00:17:23.621 --> 00:17:27.725
There are hurting people out there
00:17:27.725 --> 00:17:29.794
Who right now, they
00:17:29.794 --> 00:17:30.862
Would never step foot in a church because
00:17:30.862 --> 00:17:33.364
When they look inside, they think they're all a mess.
00:17:33.364 --> 00:17:35.800
They're all attacking each other.
00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:37.435
We have to know that when they look in
00:17:37.435 --> 00:17:39.637
That they're seeing people who exude
00:17:39.637 --> 00:17:42.640
Love and the only way we can do that is
00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.009
If we truly embody who jesus was.
00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:48.713
He forgave quickly.
00:17:48.713 --> 00:17:50.014
He did not hold offense.
00:17:50.014 --> 00:17:52.083
I'm telling you, the
00:17:52.083 --> 00:17:52.917
Forgiveness part of it all is huge.
00:17:52.917 --> 00:17:55.186
If we just began to forgive like jesus forgives 70 times
00:17:55.186 --> 00:18:00.491
Seven, that there's no end to our forgiveness,
00:18:00.491 --> 00:18:02.560
You would revolutionize the church.
00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:04.529
I really do have a personal
00:18:05.129 --> 00:18:07.331
Testimony of being hurt by church.
00:18:07.331 --> 00:18:10.301
And, you know, it's really hard when you give years to a place
00:18:10.301 --> 00:18:14.772
And it ends up feeling like it ended on a note of hurt, and
00:18:14.772 --> 00:18:19.510
Then you start evaluating everything about your
00:18:19.510 --> 00:18:22.880
Contribution for that time.
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.448
Was it for nothing?
00:18:24.448 --> 00:18:25.616
What were you doing god's--
00:18:25.616 --> 00:18:26.884
So there was a time when we had left a church we had
00:18:26.884 --> 00:18:30.788
Served in for many years, and our kids, two of our kids were
00:18:30.788 --> 00:18:34.525
Out of the house at that time.
00:18:34.525 --> 00:18:35.793
They were in college and one was still in high school, and i
00:18:35.793 --> 00:18:38.996
Was just spending time with the lord one day.
00:18:38.996 --> 00:18:40.631
And i was, i was dealing with my own brokenness and my own pain
00:18:40.631 --> 00:18:44.101
And my own-- but i recognized that i also was still
00:18:44.101 --> 00:18:48.372
Shepherding hearts, and this was a place that my
00:18:48.372 --> 00:18:50.641
Kids loved and grew up in as well.
00:18:50.641 --> 00:18:53.010
And i was just with the lord one day and was just really
00:18:53.010 --> 00:18:57.481
Burdened for them.
00:18:57.481 --> 00:18:58.649
How are they processing this?
00:18:58.649 --> 00:19:01.419
How are they carrying this?
00:19:01.419 --> 00:19:03.321
Because our world kind of turned upside down.
00:19:03.321 --> 00:19:05.656
Because now if you're in ministry, then you don't just,
00:19:05.656 --> 00:19:10.761
You know, lose your community.
00:19:10.761 --> 00:19:13.331
You know, you're-- it's all of it.
00:19:13.331 --> 00:19:15.333
You know, everything changes. everything changes.
00:19:15.333 --> 00:19:17.468
And so we kind of felt and, um, the lord just really put it on
00:19:17.468 --> 00:19:22.139
My heart to protect their hearts.
00:19:22.139 --> 00:19:23.841
And so i, my husband and i brought them into the kitchen.
00:19:23.841 --> 00:19:26.577
I remember it so well, i kind of mumbled and tried to find my
00:19:26.577 --> 00:19:31.582
Footing of how i wanted to say it, and i ended up saying, it's
00:19:31.582 --> 00:19:34.852
Really popular these days to let the offense of the church
00:19:34.852 --> 00:19:40.258
Take over your heart.
00:19:40.258 --> 00:19:41.726
It's really popular these days to deconstruct your faith
00:19:41.726 --> 00:19:45.029
Because of hurt that you have.
00:19:45.029 --> 00:19:48.332
But as your parents, we're going to stand here today
00:19:48.332 --> 00:19:51.569
And we're going to claim that your hearts will always love
00:19:52.737 --> 00:19:58.242
The church. wow.
00:19:58.242 --> 00:19:59.477
Because we never served a man. right.
00:19:59.477 --> 00:20:02.179
We didn't get into this to serve a man.
00:20:02.179 --> 00:20:04.448
It was always about god.
00:20:04.448 --> 00:20:06.284
It was always about his heart for people.
00:20:06.284 --> 00:20:08.286
It was always about his vision.
00:20:08.286 --> 00:20:10.521
And so, in a way, i didn't say
00:20:10.521 --> 00:20:12.757
It this way, but it's how i felt,
00:20:12.757 --> 00:20:13.958
I'm not going to allow it. i put a stake in the ground.
00:20:13.958 --> 00:20:17.261
We're not going to allow church hurt.
00:20:17.261 --> 00:20:19.563
Good for. you.
00:20:19.563 --> 00:20:20.665
Because if we do, that means we allowed mankind,
00:20:20.665 --> 00:20:24.035
And i'm not even saying a specific man, but a mankind
00:20:24.035 --> 00:20:27.838
To actually have rule and reign over our heart more than god.
00:20:27.838 --> 00:20:31.142
Yeah. and we're not allowing
00:20:31.142 --> 00:20:32.209
That because they're church kids.
00:20:32.209 --> 00:20:34.145
They're church people. they love the church.
00:20:34.145 --> 00:20:36.113
They they grew up loving jesus and loving his people.
00:20:36.113 --> 00:20:40.584
And i could see that being torn away a little bit.
00:20:40.584 --> 00:20:43.721
It was disillusioned and disillusioned like it was
00:20:43.721 --> 00:20:46.590
Disorienting and and i understood it.
00:20:46.590 --> 00:20:48.793
They were processing.
00:20:48.793 --> 00:20:50.294
But i'm telling you, like i, i just felt a real mandate to
00:20:50.294 --> 00:20:57.601
Kind of put that authority over it, that, no, we're not, we're
00:20:57.601 --> 00:21:01.806
Not, we're not going to have church hurt here.
00:21:01.806 --> 00:21:03.974
We're going to love god's people.
00:21:03.974 --> 00:21:05.609
We're going to love being a part of a body.
00:21:05.609 --> 00:21:07.345
And we will be again. yeah.
00:21:07.345 --> 00:21:09.180
And i am so thankful because here, fast forward many
00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:12.750
Years later, my kids all serve the lord in their church.
00:21:12.750 --> 00:21:17.088
They all love the church.
00:21:17.088 --> 00:21:18.489
They all love, and i--
00:21:18.489 --> 00:21:20.291
There is just something about not giving in to the cultural
00:21:20.291 --> 00:21:24.295
Trend that it is okay to just walk around with church hurt,
00:21:24.295 --> 00:21:27.998
And it's okay to deconstruct your faith and it's-- it's not.
00:21:27.998 --> 00:21:31.802
We got to-- we have got to--
00:21:31.802 --> 00:21:33.771
It is absolutely true.
00:21:33.771 --> 00:21:35.206
They were hurt. we were all hurt.
00:21:35.206 --> 00:21:37.408
We did not ignore the pain.
00:21:37.408 --> 00:21:39.043
We talked about the pain.
00:21:39.043 --> 00:21:40.411
We processed the pain.
00:21:40.411 --> 00:21:41.846
We got counseling for the pain.
00:21:41.846 --> 00:21:43.681
All of that was real happening at the same time while we were
00:21:43.681 --> 00:21:47.218
Still finding a church to serve in.
00:21:47.218 --> 00:21:49.120
We were still becoming. this is the thing. one,
00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:51.122
They're the future generation. exactly. that's it.
00:21:51.122 --> 00:21:53.791
They are the church. they are.
00:21:53.791 --> 00:21:55.426
And so there was no way i was going to let the enemy
00:21:55.426 --> 00:21:57.862
Steal that, right?
00:21:57.862 --> 00:21:58.796
Absolutely no way.
00:21:58.796 --> 00:22:01.565
But the other thing, too, was i felt like it was an important
00:22:00.264 --> 00:22:05.369
Thing for them in their
00:22:05.369 --> 00:22:06.971
Generation, for other people to see.
00:22:06.971 --> 00:22:09.640
Like it was important to, to me to make sure that they looked
00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:14.745
Different than what it felt like they should.
00:22:14.745 --> 00:22:17.648
Yeah, that's such great parenting.
00:22:17.648 --> 00:22:20.050
And i feel like, i feel like people that are listening,
00:22:20.050 --> 00:22:22.119
This is important too, because we we're teaching our kids with
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.357
The way that we speak, the way we communicate.
00:22:26.357 --> 00:22:28.793
And i think that there's, it's so easy, um, in the safety of
00:22:28.793 --> 00:22:33.831
The walls of our home to just be free to say things.
00:22:33.831 --> 00:22:38.135
And, um, people who have open wounds tend to bleed all over
00:22:38.135 --> 00:22:42.506
Other people.
00:22:42.506 --> 00:22:43.774
And so you were doing the work to heal while simultaneously
00:22:43.774 --> 00:22:48.412
Like setting the narrative for your children.
00:22:48.412 --> 00:22:50.948
And i just think for those that are listening, if you're a
00:22:50.948 --> 00:22:54.852
Parent and you've got young kids, teenage kids, college age
00:22:54.852 --> 00:22:58.556
Kids, how you speak about the church, which remember we
00:22:58.556 --> 00:23:01.992
Established is the bride of christ,
00:23:01.992 --> 00:23:04.528
How you speak about the church matters because it is, um, it's
00:23:04.528 --> 00:23:09.266
Setting a foundation for your children.
00:23:09.266 --> 00:23:12.069
And so i love that you just were so intentional to parent
00:23:12.069 --> 00:23:16.907
Well in the midst of your pain that you were navigating
00:23:16.907 --> 00:23:20.644
Because, um, it set a standard for the next generation.
00:23:20.644 --> 00:23:24.014
That's beautiful. thank you for doing that.
00:23:24.014 --> 00:23:27.251
You know, i think it's our responsibility as a church to
00:23:27.251 --> 00:23:29.820
Be a place of healing for the next generation.
00:23:29.820 --> 00:23:32.890
You know, the next generation is looking for real, authentic
00:23:32.890 --> 00:23:36.527
Followers of christ.
00:23:36.527 --> 00:23:37.995
They're not looking for a show.
00:23:37.995 --> 00:23:39.430
They're not looking for performance.
00:23:39.430 --> 00:23:40.764
They want to know what it looks like to truly follow jesus.
00:23:40.764 --> 00:23:44.535
So i think that those of us who are a little bit ahead, we can
00:23:44.535 --> 00:23:48.272
Be authentic followers of christ.
00:23:48.272 --> 00:23:50.307
We can be what you see is what you get kind of people.
00:23:50.307 --> 00:23:53.177
We can be the kind of people that that walk truly in the
00:23:53.177 --> 00:23:56.313
Fruit of the spirit love, joy, peace, patience.
00:23:56.313 --> 00:23:59.049
We exemplify behaviors that just give glory to god.
00:23:59.049 --> 00:24:03.454
And i think if we could be those kind of people and
00:24:03.454 --> 00:24:06.257
Actually look at the next generation that's coming behind
00:24:06.257 --> 00:24:08.792
Us and not see all the problems and not see all the
00:24:08.792 --> 00:24:11.629
Frustrations that begin to call out purpose in their lives,
00:24:11.629 --> 00:24:14.798
Begin to tell them, we believe in you,
00:24:14.798 --> 00:24:17.334
I think that's what the next generation needs to step into
00:24:17.334 --> 00:24:19.737
The fullness of who god's called them to be.
00:24:19.737 --> 00:24:22.506
I thought that was really important that even you noted
00:24:22.506 --> 00:24:24.775
Like this is not like assigning the term church hurt
00:24:24.775 --> 00:24:29.813
To a person's hurt. or like so
00:24:29.813 --> 00:24:33.284
Do you want to unpack really?
00:24:33.284 --> 00:24:34.385
Because i spent a lot of time--
00:24:34.385 --> 00:24:35.886
Because the terminology, i wonder if the terminology is
00:24:35.886 --> 00:24:39.823
Hurtful, because i wonder if the terminology isn't truthful
00:24:39.823 --> 00:24:42.459
Because it feels duplicitous to a new believer, a young
00:24:42.459 --> 00:24:45.930
Believer, or someone somewhat a long-term believer because we
00:24:45.930 --> 00:24:48.632
Say things in church like we
00:24:48.632 --> 00:24:50.367
Are a family where all parts matter.
00:24:50.367 --> 00:24:52.836
We say that jesus has unconditional love and
00:24:52.836 --> 00:24:56.206
Therefore we have unconditional love.
00:24:56.206 --> 00:24:57.841
So, so much of our ethos as christian is grace filled and
00:24:57.841 --> 00:25:01.345
Kind and forgiving and thinking
00:25:01.345 --> 00:25:03.614
Of others greater than ourselves.
00:25:03.614 --> 00:25:05.149
And so when we are faced with humanity and the frailty of us
00:25:05.149 --> 00:25:08.619
As humans failing, then it feels like it's in contrast to
00:25:08.619 --> 00:25:12.756
Everything that you've ever told me.
00:25:12.756 --> 00:25:14.425
Yeah, that's why people feel betrayed and that's why
00:25:14.425 --> 00:25:16.493
People feel hurt.
00:25:16.493 --> 00:25:17.795
However, we have put our trust in a human right and we are not
00:25:17.795 --> 00:25:21.899
Serving that.
00:25:21.899 --> 00:25:23.000
We're not worshiping that pastor.
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.802
We're worshiping and serving the lord.
00:25:24.802 --> 00:25:26.904
But we feel hurt when god's children hurt us because it's
00:25:26.904 --> 00:25:31.642
Incongruous to everything that we've been told out of the word
00:25:31.642 --> 00:25:34.612
Of god.
00:25:34.612 --> 00:25:35.479
Yeah, okay. it feels duplicitous.
00:25:35.479 --> 00:25:36.747
It's hard to reconcile.
00:25:36.747 --> 00:25:38.282
Yeah, but then you're putting your hope in, man.
00:25:38.282 --> 00:25:41.251
You're putting your hope in woman rather than putting your
00:25:41.251 --> 00:25:43.821
Hope and healing in the lord, so i give so much credence.
00:25:43.821 --> 00:25:47.558
I want everyone listening online to know, like i'm sure
00:25:47.558 --> 00:25:51.161
Your hurt feels very real to you and it is real to you.
00:25:51.161 --> 00:25:54.198
Yes. without processing it in a healthy and safe place, while
00:25:54.198 --> 00:25:58.902
Holding the truth of this is a human.
00:25:58.902 --> 00:26:02.506
Yeah. i've been let down by a human.
00:26:02.506 --> 00:26:04.708
But god has not let me down.
00:26:04.708 --> 00:26:07.578
When we see people fail, it's easy to attribute that to the
00:26:07.578 --> 00:26:11.615
Nature of god.
00:26:11.615 --> 00:26:12.983
And i think the most fundamental way we must first
00:26:12.983 --> 00:26:16.587
Look at church failure and christians failure is knowing
00:26:16.587 --> 00:26:20.791
That church and just believers in general are human.
00:26:20.791 --> 00:26:25.729
You know, we are prone to fall as long as we're on this side
00:26:25.729 --> 00:26:28.899
Of heaven, where we are prone to wander.
00:26:28.899 --> 00:26:32.102
Um, and when we realize no, christians are not god and
00:26:32.102 --> 00:26:36.640
Churches are the club of sinners, the club of sinners
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:41.378
That are aware of god's grace
00:26:41.378 --> 00:26:43.280
And try to embrace god's forgiveness.
00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:45.449
And so i think what we have that in perspective and it's
00:26:45.449 --> 00:26:49.553
Easier to separate people's failures to god's goodness.
00:26:49.553 --> 00:26:53.824
So before we start talking
00:26:54.391 --> 00:26:55.759
About how to heal, i'm just, i'm
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:58.128
Going to give voice to some pastors.
00:26:58.128 --> 00:27:00.698
So many times when we talk about church hurt, we're
00:27:00.698 --> 00:27:03.500
Hearing from the congregants who are hurt by their leaders.
00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:06.503
But as a pastor's daughter and now as a pastor, i just want to
00:27:06.503 --> 00:27:10.874
Create space for people to hear from pastors how we have been
00:27:10.874 --> 00:27:15.079
Hurt from congregants.
00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:17.247
My dad been in ministry for 50 years, and he told me when i
00:27:17.247 --> 00:27:22.686
Was starting ministry, he said, our role as shepherd is
00:27:22.686 --> 00:27:26.323
Beautiful, but beware, sheep bite.
00:27:26.323 --> 00:27:29.426
Yep. so this is, this is honest conversation and real talk.
00:27:29.426 --> 00:27:34.531
I don't want to spend a whole lot of time here because i
00:27:34.531 --> 00:27:36.233
Already spoke about wound licking.
00:27:36.233 --> 00:27:38.001
All right, let's talk about it from a place of a scar.
00:27:38.001 --> 00:27:39.636
Not a wound, but really quick
00:27:39.636 --> 00:27:41.605
Where have you been hurt? and then would love to transition.
00:27:41.605 --> 00:27:43.807
Let's talk about ways that we can heal from church hurt.
00:27:43.807 --> 00:27:46.376
I think when people are just not open to continued
00:27:46.376 --> 00:27:50.447
Conversation, i think a lot of what we're talking about
00:27:50.447 --> 00:27:53.016
Requires open communication.
00:27:53.016 --> 00:27:55.719
And, you know, i know it's the thing these days to talk about,
00:27:55.719 --> 00:28:00.090
You know, what's a red flag?
00:28:00.090 --> 00:28:01.725
Who do you excommunicate from your life?
00:28:01.725 --> 00:28:04.228
And, you know, boundaries.
00:28:04.228 --> 00:28:05.829
And although boundaries are good, healthy boundaries are
00:28:05.829 --> 00:28:08.232
Very, very good.
00:28:08.232 --> 00:28:09.366
But i think sometimes we take it to a place where we
00:28:09.366 --> 00:28:12.569
Normalize disconnecting from people just because there's
00:28:12.569 --> 00:28:17.141
Pain, you know, and i think especially these days, you
00:28:17.141 --> 00:28:20.711
Know, um, as a pastor, i'm
00:28:20.711 --> 00:28:22.880
Like, i want to continue this conversation.
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.249
Like, i'm willing to go at it again, like i'm willing to sit
00:28:25.249 --> 00:28:29.520
Down with you and hear it again
00:28:29.520 --> 00:28:31.522
If you need me to hear it again.
00:28:31.522 --> 00:28:33.223
But i think when it just kind of, um, gets prematurely cut
00:28:33.223 --> 00:28:37.528
And then they, you know, and they leave and like,
00:28:37.528 --> 00:28:39.630
You know, do all that,
00:28:39.630 --> 00:28:40.898
I mean, it kind of leaves you feeling like, man, you know?
00:28:40.898 --> 00:28:44.168
But isn't family
00:28:44.168 --> 00:28:46.103
Family because we could reconcile?
00:28:46.103 --> 00:28:48.272
Yeah. and we fight for that reconciliation.
00:28:48.272 --> 00:28:50.340
We're willing to engage there. right.
00:28:50.340 --> 00:28:51.809
I mean, something that i try to tell my kids because
00:28:51.809 --> 00:28:55.813
We're talking about, how do we frame it for our kids is, you
00:28:55.813 --> 00:28:58.549
Know, conflict is good. right.
00:28:58.549 --> 00:29:00.717
When someone's willing to have conflict with you and engage
00:29:00.717 --> 00:29:04.421
With you and listen and talk and share and have you listen
00:29:04.421 --> 00:29:09.326
To their perspective, that's actually a sign of intimacy,
00:29:09.326 --> 00:29:14.731
Not rejection.
00:29:14.731 --> 00:29:16.466
If anything, rejection is if they're like, i don't even care
00:29:16.466 --> 00:29:18.769
About you and then walk away, which, you know, sometimes it
00:29:18.769 --> 00:29:21.138
Happens, you know?
00:29:21.138 --> 00:29:22.573
Um, but i think when we are willing to engage, you know,
00:29:22.573 --> 00:29:26.944
And do it in a way where we're committed to, um, safety and
00:29:26.944 --> 00:29:32.616
Committed to, um, holding on to that relationship--
00:29:32.616 --> 00:29:36.253
I'm thinking about jesus.
00:29:36.253 --> 00:29:38.422
You know, he spoke truth to power.
00:29:38.422 --> 00:29:40.858
I think sometimes we forget
00:29:40.858 --> 00:29:41.992
Jesus was hurt by his religious community.
00:29:41.992 --> 00:29:44.394
Like hard core, like the the leaders of his religious
00:29:44.394 --> 00:29:47.097
Community were going after him, slandering him.
00:29:47.097 --> 00:29:50.267
People were conspiring against him.
00:29:50.267 --> 00:29:52.536
I mean, if i were in his shoes, i'd be like, wow, that this is,
00:29:52.536 --> 00:29:57.007
Uh, this is religious hurt, too.
00:29:57.007 --> 00:29:58.876
But not only did he speak truth
00:29:58.876 --> 00:30:00.544
To power, but he also wept for jerusalem.
00:30:00.544 --> 00:30:04.715
He wept to his religious community, wept for his
00:30:04.715 --> 00:30:08.085
Religious community.
00:30:08.085 --> 00:30:09.386
You know, um, and i wonder, are we willing to engage in tough
00:30:09.386 --> 00:30:13.290
Conversations, um, with our leaders and our congregants?
00:30:13.290 --> 00:30:18.028
But not in a way
00:30:18.028 --> 00:30:19.096
We're just trying to bring truth to the table.
00:30:19.096 --> 00:30:21.632
But are we willing to weep for them?
00:30:21.632 --> 00:30:23.500
You know, and when i find myself starting to get really
00:30:23.500 --> 00:30:25.769
Bitter, you know, i mean, i'm sure as all of you have, like
00:30:25.769 --> 00:30:29.673
Having had experienced church hurt as a recipient, but also
00:30:29.673 --> 00:30:33.577
As a leader, and also, like you were saying, i, girl, i feel you.
00:30:33.577 --> 00:30:38.282
Like in 20 years of church
00:30:38.282 --> 00:30:40.117
Ministry, i am sure i have hurt people.
00:30:40.117 --> 00:30:42.419
You know, it was all unintentional.
00:30:42.419 --> 00:30:44.955
But, you know, um, in the midst of all of that, i just know i
00:30:44.955 --> 00:30:49.593
Can't engage in conversations unless i know i'm willing to
00:30:49.593 --> 00:30:53.697
Weep for them, you know?
00:30:53.697 --> 00:30:55.065
Am i willing to weep for this congregant?
00:30:55.065 --> 00:30:57.067
Am i willing to weep for that pastor?
00:30:57.067 --> 00:30:59.036
I think that's--
00:30:59.036 --> 00:31:00.237
This is why so many pastors are experiencing burnout,
00:31:00.237 --> 00:31:02.739
Why we have droves of people
00:31:02.739 --> 00:31:05.242
That are stepping down from ministry.
00:31:05.242 --> 00:31:07.244
Yeah. uh, by a show of hands
00:31:07.244 --> 00:31:08.912
How many have gone to a congregants child's birthday?
00:31:08.912 --> 00:31:12.349
Raise your hand. by show of hands
00:31:12.349 --> 00:31:13.917
How many have married or attended a congregants wedding?
00:31:13.917 --> 00:31:16.954
By a show of hands
00:31:17.387 --> 00:31:18.655
How many of us have gone to a funeral or been there for a
00:31:18.655 --> 00:31:21.191
Moment of bereavement? by a show of hands
00:31:21.191 --> 00:31:23.393
How many have showed up or answered a phone call at
00:31:23.393 --> 00:31:25.662
Midnight for the loss of a wayward child?
00:31:25.662 --> 00:31:27.898
Or a trauma with a child? by a show of hands,
00:31:27.898 --> 00:31:30.400
How many have shown up given financially, emotionally,
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.470
Physically, spiritually
00:31:33.470 --> 00:31:34.738
The leadership for a for congregant?
00:31:34.738 --> 00:31:36.139
Yeah. it's a lot.
00:31:36.139 --> 00:31:38.508
And then they leave.
00:31:38.508 --> 00:31:40.844
Yeah. yeah.
00:31:40.844 --> 00:31:41.812
And then they talk trash as they walk out.
00:31:41.812 --> 00:31:44.414
Yeah. and then they said you did nothing for me.
00:31:44.414 --> 00:31:47.851
So the reciprocity as a pastor is the expectation is that we
00:31:47.851 --> 00:31:51.588
Give and give and give and give, but we cannot expect
00:31:51.588 --> 00:31:54.157
Anything in return.
00:31:54.157 --> 00:31:55.459
In a culture that's dealing with the aftermath of people
00:31:56.593 --> 00:31:58.662
Coming out and speaking a lot about church hurt, i first want
00:31:58.662 --> 00:32:01.465
To validate that there have been grievances that have been
00:32:01.465 --> 00:32:03.900
Done to people, intentionally and unintentionally.
00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:06.636
But i also want to encourage us
00:32:06.636 --> 00:32:07.904
To practice what scripture says.
00:32:07.904 --> 00:32:09.406
Matthew 18:15 says that if
00:32:09.406 --> 00:32:11.008
Somebody offended you, go to them.
00:32:11.008 --> 00:32:13.276
Now, you might not have direct access to a senior pastor, but
00:32:13.276 --> 00:32:16.179
Is there someone on staff that you could process this
00:32:16.179 --> 00:32:18.281
Grievance with before you just walk away and kiss the idea of
00:32:18.281 --> 00:32:23.120
Church or community out of your life?
00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:25.355
I'm going to encourage you practice what scripture says.
00:32:25.355 --> 00:32:27.824
In addition to that, what would
00:32:27.824 --> 00:32:29.393
It look like to heal and forgive?
00:32:29.393 --> 00:32:32.396
Sometimes we go through the healing process and still
00:32:32.396 --> 00:32:34.564
Harbor resentment and anger and bitterness that you can feel
00:32:34.564 --> 00:32:37.367
Justified in, but it's not serving you.
00:32:37.367 --> 00:32:39.770
So what would it look like to get help, to get godly counsel,
00:32:39.770 --> 00:32:42.672
To get wisdom, to get therapy, to heal from that, and then
00:32:42.672 --> 00:32:45.642
Forgive so that you could be the greatest version of who god
00:32:45.642 --> 00:32:47.944
Has called you to be.
00:32:47.944 --> 00:32:49.179
Not harboring resentment, anger, or bitterness from those
00:32:49.179 --> 00:32:51.782
Who have let you down, hurt you, or failed you.
00:32:51.782 --> 00:32:54.518
The best way that we can support people who have been
00:32:55.552 --> 00:32:59.022
Wounded by somebody in a church is to listen to them and to
00:32:59.022 --> 00:33:03.493
Hear about the hurt, to validate.
00:33:03.493 --> 00:33:07.297
That they are not crazy for
00:33:07.898 --> 00:33:09.366
Feeling hurt because somebody
00:33:09.366 --> 00:33:11.535
Did something to them that was not fair.
00:33:11.535 --> 00:33:13.270
Or was not right.
00:33:13.270 --> 00:33:14.371
Or was unjust. listen to people.
00:33:14.371 --> 00:33:17.374
Mourn with those who mourn.
00:33:17.374 --> 00:33:19.976
And i would ask them, what do you need from me?
00:33:19.976 --> 00:33:23.346
Do you need prayer?
00:33:23.346 --> 00:33:24.381
Do you need to come visit my church?
00:33:24.381 --> 00:33:26.650
Do you need advice?
00:33:26.650 --> 00:33:28.051
I don't assume people want my advice.
00:33:28.051 --> 00:33:30.187
My first thing is to listen and ask, what do you need from me?
00:33:30.187 --> 00:33:33.023
So i make sure that i really meet that need.
00:33:33.023 --> 00:33:35.292
And i'm also continuously praying
00:33:35.292 --> 00:33:36.893
For them because those wounds are likely very real.
00:33:36.893 --> 00:33:39.563
And only god can heal them.
00:33:39.563 --> 00:33:41.298
So i'm praying, god, how. can i partner with you to bring
00:33:41.298 --> 00:33:43.300
Healing where there needs to be healing?
00:33:43.300 --> 00:33:45.669
I would listen to them.
00:33:45.669 --> 00:33:46.903
I would pray for them, not assume i know every situation,
00:33:46.903 --> 00:33:49.773
And hopefully partner with god to do what.
00:33:49.773 --> 00:33:52.542
His will is in the situation.
00:33:52.542 --> 00:33:54.511
Join the conversation on our bettertogether youtube channel.
00:33:55.679 --> 00:33:59.149
Subscribe today and never miss a new upload!
00:33:59.149 --> 00:34:02.997
Subscribe today and never miss a new upload!
00:34:02.997 --> 00:34:05.689
You openly shared a little bit of your church hurt. on a scale
00:34:06.857 --> 00:34:09.860
Of 1 to 10 of hurt,
00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:11.628
What did you experience?
00:34:11.628 --> 00:34:13.363
This is the thing, we're-- good thing, a few years out.
00:34:13.363 --> 00:34:17.067
And so i do feel really healed.
00:34:17.067 --> 00:34:19.536
And it's really because it's been the theme, it's because we
00:34:19.536 --> 00:34:22.973
Got ourselves back into a jesus loving, bible teaching church.
00:34:22.973 --> 00:34:27.177
It says time heals all wounds unless you've let bitterness
00:34:27.177 --> 00:34:30.280
Into the wound, and then the
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:32.449
Wound is just never going to be healed.
00:34:32.449 --> 00:34:34.684
Time doesn't.
00:34:34.684 --> 00:34:35.519
Time only makes the wound bigger.
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.187
And so we just made sure we never had bitterness seep into
00:34:37.187 --> 00:34:41.024
Any of the wounds because we we wanted time to heal the wound.
00:34:41.024 --> 00:34:44.561
You know, it is hard to come from a position of trying to
00:34:44.561 --> 00:34:49.666
Put myself back a few years back, you know, serving a
00:34:49.666 --> 00:34:52.269
Church for over 20 years and finding out really that
00:34:52.269 --> 00:34:56.139
That time is up,
00:34:56.139 --> 00:34:57.607
This is what's really important that i want to say, early into
00:34:57.607 --> 00:35:00.610
Our transition out of the church that we were in,
00:35:00.610 --> 00:35:04.214
My husband found a prophetic word that was given to him two
00:35:04.214 --> 00:35:07.350
Years prior.
00:35:07.350 --> 00:35:08.618
He had put it in a drawer, and he says now he put it in the
00:35:08.618 --> 00:35:12.255
Drawer because he didn't love the word.
00:35:12.255 --> 00:35:14.257
And he just kind of was like,
00:35:14.257 --> 00:35:15.592
We'll just put that in a filing cabinet.
00:35:15.592 --> 00:35:17.494
And one day, because he was
00:35:17.494 --> 00:35:19.529
Home, because he had no job anymore,
00:35:19.529 --> 00:35:21.498
Um, he was cleaning out the filing cabinet, opened it up,
00:35:21.498 --> 00:35:24.868
Saw the yellow sheet of paper, and which is what the word
00:35:24.868 --> 00:35:28.338
Was written on, and the word was absolutely--
00:35:28.338 --> 00:35:32.742
It had dates, in 2022, this and this.
00:35:32.742 --> 00:35:35.979
I mean, it was so specific about transition, about being
00:35:35.979 --> 00:35:39.816
Planted into bigger pots.
00:35:39.816 --> 00:35:41.184
I mean, it was a very specific word.
00:35:41.184 --> 00:35:43.653
And in that moment, literally in the moment, the lord said,
00:35:43.653 --> 00:35:47.190
You're not a victim.
00:35:47.190 --> 00:35:48.658
I have had a plan for you all along.
00:35:48.658 --> 00:35:52.295
Amen. so good.
00:35:52.295 --> 00:35:53.597
And so what ends up happening is what we take is the fallible
00:35:53.597 --> 00:35:56.666
Man and decisions of imperfect people,
00:35:56.666 --> 00:36:01.304
And we say they had a role in my life becoming frustrating,
00:36:01.304 --> 00:36:06.776
Disorganized, upended. it's because of them.
00:36:06.776 --> 00:36:11.615
If we were able to say, god is the author and perfecter of my
00:36:11.615 --> 00:36:16.987
Faith, god has a plan for my life.
00:36:16.987 --> 00:36:19.589
There is purpose beyond what i can see.
00:36:19.589 --> 00:36:22.359
And so i'm going to choose to
00:36:22.359 --> 00:36:23.627
Sit not in a position of victim.
00:36:23.627 --> 00:36:25.528
And oh, they hurt me,
00:36:25.528 --> 00:36:26.896
That is true. i am hurt by that
00:36:26.896 --> 00:36:28.798
And i can go to counseling and i can--
00:36:28.798 --> 00:36:31.167
That needs to be dealt with so we can't just--
00:36:31.167 --> 00:36:33.336
You can't just sweep it under the rug.
00:36:33.336 --> 00:36:34.904
But it's the position of my heart, right,
00:36:34.904 --> 00:36:37.707
Is god, i'm going to choose to believe you're in this.
00:36:37.707 --> 00:36:41.344
Yes. you knew this and you-- now, could there have been a
00:36:41.344 --> 00:36:44.714
Different way that feels like it would have been nicer?
00:36:44.714 --> 00:36:47.384
Sure. i could have maybe given some suggestions, but actually,
00:36:47.384 --> 00:36:51.554
In some ways, i don't know. i might, we might not
00:36:51.554 --> 00:36:54.724
Have ever left. yeah.
00:36:54.724 --> 00:36:56.092
And so there is a disruption that happened in our life.
00:36:56.092 --> 00:37:00.130
And i think when people feel disruption, they can because it
00:37:00.130 --> 00:37:04.134
Feels uncomfortable and they don't like it.
00:37:04.134 --> 00:37:05.735
It's not of their choosing,
00:37:05.735 --> 00:37:06.970
They're going to try to find the easiest place to put the
00:37:06.970 --> 00:37:09.439
Blame for the disruption.
00:37:09.439 --> 00:37:11.508
And for us, we had the choice to put it on those people, but
00:37:11.508 --> 00:37:15.512
They don't hold that power. amen.
00:37:15.512 --> 00:37:17.981
And so whenever we-- really that moment was pivotal, pivotal in
00:37:17.981 --> 00:37:23.253
Our life to say we're not a victim.
00:37:23.253 --> 00:37:25.622
So, god, what are you doing?
00:37:25.622 --> 00:37:27.657
And that began the healing journey of not carrying
00:37:27.657 --> 00:37:30.260
The church hurt because
00:37:30.260 --> 00:37:31.461
When we have purpose that god is doing something
00:37:31.461 --> 00:37:34.331
Bigger, he's doing something greater.
00:37:34.331 --> 00:37:36.533
He's had a destination for us.
00:37:36.533 --> 00:37:39.102
And this is just the path to get there.
00:37:39.102 --> 00:37:41.037
And i hate it.
00:37:41.037 --> 00:37:42.205
I don't know why in the christian life some of our path
00:37:42.205 --> 00:37:43.873
Has to be painful, but it does sometimes, right?
00:37:43.873 --> 00:37:46.643
And so you know what?
00:37:46.643 --> 00:37:47.944
What it's helped me do now in my life is i, i don't fear the
00:37:47.944 --> 00:37:51.381
Pain because i've had a lot of it.
00:37:51.381 --> 00:37:53.717
So now i'm like, okay, well,
00:37:53.717 --> 00:37:55.485
Destinations sometimes are painful.
00:37:55.485 --> 00:37:57.921
When there's been church hurt,
00:37:58.555 --> 00:37:59.956
And we talk about how does trust get rebuilt, how does
00:37:59.956 --> 00:38:03.059
Restoration happen?
00:38:03.059 --> 00:38:04.327
It's very nuanced because it has to be very specific with in
00:38:04.327 --> 00:38:08.598
Context to what happened.
00:38:08.598 --> 00:38:09.866
So it's hard to say something so broad because every
00:38:09.866 --> 00:38:12.235
Situation is different.
00:38:12.235 --> 00:38:13.670
But i'll i'll say this.
00:38:13.670 --> 00:38:15.839
There is the scripture, and i actually heard charlotte gamble
00:38:15.839 --> 00:38:19.209
Give a teaching on this, the scripture about when jesus was
00:38:19.209 --> 00:38:24.347
About to be taken.
00:38:24.347 --> 00:38:26.149
And if you remember the scenario, he's in the garden of
00:38:26.149 --> 00:38:29.519
Gethsemane and the soldiers come and i believe it's peter
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.889
That cuts off the soldier's ear, and jesus goes and
00:38:32.889 --> 00:38:37.360
Reattaches the ear.
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.162
And i was listening to this message from charlotte gamble,
00:38:39.162 --> 00:38:41.798
And she talked about that when something is severed, jesus had
00:38:41.798 --> 00:38:45.969
A lot of opportunities.
00:38:45.969 --> 00:38:47.270
He could have done some different things.
00:38:47.270 --> 00:38:48.471
He could have stayed severed.
00:38:48.471 --> 00:38:50.473
He could have grown a new ear.
00:38:50.473 --> 00:38:52.642
But what he did is he picked up the ear and reattached it.
00:38:52.642 --> 00:38:56.746
And when he did, he
00:38:56.746 --> 00:38:58.014
Re-instilled hope into that man.
00:38:58.014 --> 00:39:00.917
And what he did by that is he kept true to who he was,
00:39:00.917 --> 00:39:04.220
That he's a restorer.
00:39:04.220 --> 00:39:06.122
And so in that situation, if something in your life has been
00:39:06.122 --> 00:39:09.859
Severed, if something has been--
00:39:09.859 --> 00:39:11.694
You've got opportunity, you can--
00:39:11.694 --> 00:39:14.497
It's absolutely depending on the situation, it may be okay
00:39:14.497 --> 00:39:17.767
That you end up walking away from that situation and you can
00:39:17.767 --> 00:39:21.137
Still have restoration.
00:39:21.137 --> 00:39:23.139
But if trust has not been restored, then it may be best
00:39:23.139 --> 00:39:26.876
That you remove yourself from that situation.
00:39:26.876 --> 00:39:28.711
But it could be like this soldier.
00:39:28.711 --> 00:39:31.047
It could be a situation where the hope that's going to be
00:39:31.047 --> 00:39:33.950
Instilled back in you is because jesus is going to
00:39:33.950 --> 00:39:37.153
Reattach the thing that was severed.
00:39:37.153 --> 00:39:38.988
He's going to--
00:39:38.988 --> 00:39:40.156
That doesn't mean that the relationship is restored,
00:39:40.156 --> 00:39:42.492
Uh, in that way necessarily.
00:39:42.492 --> 00:39:44.794
I don't know the situation, but what it can mean is that your
00:39:44.794 --> 00:39:47.630
Heart, when that person comes to mind, when you see them,
00:39:47.630 --> 00:39:50.967
Whatever the situation is, that your heart has been mended,
00:39:50.967 --> 00:39:54.471
That the thing that was severed and hurt has been reattached in
00:39:54.471 --> 00:39:57.807
A way where it's now hope that covers it and that has saved
00:39:57.807 --> 00:40:01.978
The relationship because not maybe because the offense
00:40:01.978 --> 00:40:04.547
Didn't happen, but because jesus has put hope back into a
00:40:04.547 --> 00:40:08.551
Hopeless situation.
00:40:08.551 --> 00:40:11.020
What i love about what you're sharing is that there's such a
00:40:11.020 --> 00:40:13.890
Strong sense of identity and how you were navigating that,
00:40:13.890 --> 00:40:19.395
Because i think sometimes when either church leaders or
00:40:19.395 --> 00:40:22.932
Congregants, whatever perspective you're coming from,
00:40:22.932 --> 00:40:26.302
Say something about you, whether you are a bad leader or
00:40:26.302 --> 00:40:29.672
Whether you are not a strong believer, you know, whatever
00:40:29.672 --> 00:40:33.510
The criticism is, we tend to take it upon ourselves and be
00:40:33.510 --> 00:40:37.680
Like, i guess that's god's opinion of me.
00:40:37.680 --> 00:40:40.683
Or maybe that's just who i am.
00:40:40.683 --> 00:40:43.152
But for you to say, regardless of what these people of power
00:40:43.152 --> 00:40:47.323
Or the masses may say or do to
00:40:47.323 --> 00:40:50.493
Me, that does not dictate who i am.
00:40:50.493 --> 00:40:53.530
And my god is not man or humankind, but it is god.
00:40:53.530 --> 00:40:58.334
Right. and i think having that
00:40:58.334 --> 00:41:00.169
Strong sense of identity is is huge.
00:41:00.169 --> 00:41:03.806
I remember when my family and i, you know, we were really
00:41:03.806 --> 00:41:07.277
Uprooted from our church community.
00:41:07.277 --> 00:41:09.112
And that created a lot of awkwardness because, you know,
00:41:09.112 --> 00:41:12.048
When you're not moving to a different state, sometimes you
00:41:12.048 --> 00:41:14.751
See each other in the cafe or whole foods or something like
00:41:14.751 --> 00:41:18.421
That, you know?
00:41:18.421 --> 00:41:19.722
For the first couple of years, i would dodge, you know, like,
00:41:19.722 --> 00:41:23.159
Oh no, no, no, no, you know.
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:24.394
But after a while, like, i remember once we, we saw an old
00:41:24.394 --> 00:41:29.399
Congregation members, you know, at a, at a cafe.
00:41:29.399 --> 00:41:32.101
My husband, he actually just beelined toward them and said,
00:41:32.101 --> 00:41:35.405
Hey, how are you doing?
00:41:35.405 --> 00:41:37.106
And he gave them a hug and i'm like, oh, how'd you do that?
00:41:37.106 --> 00:41:40.677
And he was like, i realized that i have nothing to be
00:41:40.677 --> 00:41:43.413
Ashamed of.
00:41:43.413 --> 00:41:44.647
And i realized that that's just not who i am.
00:41:44.647 --> 00:41:47.216
And when i figured out who i am, like, i realized, no, i
00:41:47.216 --> 00:41:50.853
Could still love this person.
00:41:50.853 --> 00:41:53.222
What you're sharing is huge.
00:41:53.222 --> 00:41:54.657
And i think when people go into the details, you know, i think
00:41:54.657 --> 00:41:58.595
It's a it's a miracle what you guys went through.
00:41:58.595 --> 00:42:01.164
But i think what really strikes me is just that really solid
00:42:01.164 --> 00:42:04.968
Sense of identity. yeah.
00:42:04.968 --> 00:42:06.703
So as we wrap up, i want to make sure that we are leaving
00:42:06.703 --> 00:42:09.072
People with practical handles on how to heal.
00:42:09.072 --> 00:42:11.874
Yeah. and so, uh, one of the greatest things that i can do
00:42:11.874 --> 00:42:15.812
For in a healing journey of myself was talking and
00:42:15.812 --> 00:42:19.549
Processing this with a licensed clinical therapist.
00:42:19.549 --> 00:42:23.620
And as i was sharing, some of my church hurt from congregants
00:42:23.620 --> 00:42:27.190
And the counselor was like, so name all the people who hurt
00:42:27.190 --> 00:42:30.827
You, which is therapy talk.
00:42:30.827 --> 00:42:32.829
When you said name, i was like, we have to name the pain.
00:42:32.829 --> 00:42:35.665
So i got to identify these people.
00:42:35.665 --> 00:42:38.067
Deep seat of abandonment named them.
00:42:38.067 --> 00:42:40.403
This is what happened. he said, okay.
00:42:40.403 --> 00:42:42.205
And how many people have you reached in the last ten years?
00:42:42.205 --> 00:42:45.108
And he juxtaposed, will you let these four people stop you from
00:42:45.108 --> 00:42:50.780
Reaching the hundreds and thousands?
00:42:50.780 --> 00:42:53.216
Right.
00:42:53.216 --> 00:42:54.450
So for me, naming the pain, getting godly counseling and
00:42:54.450 --> 00:42:57.520
Putting my calling in perspective allowed for healing.
00:42:57.520 --> 00:43:00.523
So with our remaining time, if you could speak to the heart of
00:43:00.523 --> 00:43:03.626
Somebody who is dealing with pain because here's the thing,
00:43:03.626 --> 00:43:05.795
We all do. we've all dealt with pain.
00:43:05.795 --> 00:43:07.897
We all admitted that whether it was a leader or somebody from
00:43:07.897 --> 00:43:11.267
The congregation has hurt us,
00:43:11.267 --> 00:43:12.535
What did you do to heal?
00:43:12.535 --> 00:43:14.003
And someone's going to get a handle and hold on to it.
00:43:14.003 --> 00:43:16.105
And that's the word they need to hear.
00:43:16.105 --> 00:43:18.107
I would say that god does not
00:43:18.107 --> 00:43:19.909
Want you to live, hurt or held back.
00:43:19.909 --> 00:43:22.512
You do not have to go back into the building that hurt you.
00:43:22.512 --> 00:43:26.282
When we say you need community, you need to go back,
00:43:26.282 --> 00:43:29.686
You do not go back to the same room where hurt happened.
00:43:29.686 --> 00:43:31.988
God doesn't want you to be in
00:43:31.988 --> 00:43:33.923
An unsafe, unhealthy, or unholy environment.
00:43:33.923 --> 00:43:36.893
Amen.
00:43:36.893 --> 00:43:38.194
So you do not have to go back into that building that might
00:43:38.194 --> 00:43:39.896
Not be safe for you.
00:43:39.896 --> 00:43:41.497
God does not want you to be hurt or held back.
00:43:41.497 --> 00:43:45.468
So you must step into a
00:43:45.468 --> 00:43:47.737
Healthy, christ following community.
00:43:47.737 --> 00:43:50.406
You must look for it.
00:43:50.406 --> 00:43:52.809
Pray for it, search for it, pray for it, and search for it.
00:43:52.809 --> 00:43:55.578
Try a couple places.
00:43:55.578 --> 00:43:56.913
But since god doesn't want you to hurt or held back, don't go
00:43:56.913 --> 00:43:59.482
Back to an unsafe place and absolutely step into a place
00:43:59.482 --> 00:44:04.353
Where you can be healed.
00:44:04.353 --> 00:44:06.089
Sometimes when we're truly hurt by
00:44:06.856 --> 00:44:10.259
A person within a christ following community, the best
00:44:10.259 --> 00:44:13.529
Thing for us is to remove
00:44:13.529 --> 00:44:15.531
Ourselves from an unsafe environment.
00:44:15.531 --> 00:44:17.700
To remove ourselves from an unhealthy environment,
00:44:17.700 --> 00:44:20.269
That is a good thing.
00:44:20.269 --> 00:44:22.105
What i'm nervous about is when we step out of unsafe places
00:44:22.105 --> 00:44:25.808
And assume that any place that glorifies god is also unsafe,
00:44:25.808 --> 00:44:29.712
Or when weeks, months and years go by and we have not dealt
00:44:29.712 --> 00:44:33.883
With or hurt within us, that gives the person who hurt us
00:44:33.883 --> 00:44:36.753
Far too much power in our lives.
00:44:36.753 --> 00:44:39.288
And we don't want this wound to become a wall that stands in
00:44:39.288 --> 00:44:42.725
Between us and god, or between us, and living the full lives
00:44:42.725 --> 00:44:45.194
We've been created to live.
00:44:45.194 --> 00:44:46.929
Let god heal your hurt.
00:44:46.929 --> 00:44:48.564
Take the time you need for real healing, but make sure you are
00:44:48.564 --> 00:44:51.667
Also taking a step of faith
00:44:51.667 --> 00:44:54.303
Going into a christ following community.
00:44:54.303 --> 00:44:57.106
A different one that's safe and healthy, and be a part of
00:44:57.106 --> 00:45:00.777
Creating the kind of community that you've been praying for.
00:45:00.777 --> 00:45:04.514
There's so many people that have experienced hurt from an
00:45:04.514 --> 00:45:07.083
Unsafe, unhealthy, unholy situation.
00:45:07.083 --> 00:45:10.787
And i love that you're saying don't write off the entire
00:45:10.787 --> 00:45:13.256
Church because of that.
00:45:13.256 --> 00:45:14.557
Get yourself planted in a place that is healthy, that is holy.
00:45:14.557 --> 00:45:17.794
But i would also say that in our current cultural moment, and
00:45:17.794 --> 00:45:20.997
We touched on this earlier, a lot of people are labeling
00:45:20.997 --> 00:45:24.066
Things church hurt that are not church hurt.
00:45:24.066 --> 00:45:27.270
It's simply correction.
00:45:27.270 --> 00:45:28.871
And the scripture tells us as pastors, our job is to rebuke,
00:45:28.871 --> 00:45:32.175
Reprove, and exhort.
00:45:32.175 --> 00:45:33.976
So there should be encouragement, but they're also
00:45:33.976 --> 00:45:36.546
In a community of faith, should be people around you that are
00:45:36.546 --> 00:45:39.482
Saying, hey, you can't live that way.
00:45:39.482 --> 00:45:41.551
Hey, you got a little thing on your face right there like
00:45:41.551 --> 00:45:44.120
That you can't see.
00:45:44.120 --> 00:45:45.354
We should have people in our community of faith that are
00:45:45.354 --> 00:45:47.824
Challenging the blind spots, the places that we can't see,
00:45:47.824 --> 00:45:51.194
And we are growing because of that.
00:45:51.194 --> 00:45:53.629
And i'm finding that in community right now, people
00:45:53.629 --> 00:45:56.499
Don't like to be challenged,
00:45:56.499 --> 00:45:58.301
And they're labeling it church hurt.
00:45:58.301 --> 00:46:00.770
And they confronted me and they're abusing authority.
00:46:00.770 --> 00:46:03.072
Well, no, they're just saying, come on.
00:46:03.072 --> 00:46:04.774
Like, there's better. like, come on this journey with me and
00:46:04.774 --> 00:46:07.510
This journey of faith.
00:46:07.510 --> 00:46:08.778
And so if that's the case for you, perhaps it hasn't been
00:46:08.778 --> 00:46:12.949
Unhealthy, unholy environments.
00:46:12.949 --> 00:46:15.518
Perhaps you didn't like the conversations that were
00:46:15.518 --> 00:46:18.721
Presented to you.
00:46:18.721 --> 00:46:19.989
Perhaps there's something that felt challenged, but i would
00:46:19.989 --> 00:46:22.258
Just encourage you, if you're listening, to take a moment and
00:46:22.258 --> 00:46:25.728
Inspect your heart.
00:46:25.728 --> 00:46:27.163
There has to be someone in your life that is a voice of
00:46:27.163 --> 00:46:30.333
Authority and is a voice of leadership that you could go to
00:46:30.333 --> 00:46:33.970
And say, hey, am i wrong in this and allow them to
00:46:33.970 --> 00:46:36.239
Speak into that
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:37.506
Because just as much as i as a leader have to be willing to
00:46:37.506 --> 00:46:40.109
Come in and say, you know what, i was wrong, or you know what,
00:46:40.109 --> 00:46:43.012
I missed that,
00:46:43.012 --> 00:46:45.281
You as an individual, to be a healthy and whole christian
00:46:45.281 --> 00:46:48.818
Have to be willing to do the work that goes,
00:46:48.818 --> 00:46:51.187
You know what?
00:46:51.187 --> 00:46:52.421
That challenged me, and i didn't like the way that i felt.
00:46:52.421 --> 00:46:55.124
That challenged me,
00:46:55.124 --> 00:46:56.459
And i'm kind of frustrated with that person.
00:46:56.459 --> 00:46:58.928
But you know what?
00:46:58.928 --> 00:47:00.129
I'm going to do the work to stay in this relationship.
00:47:00.129 --> 00:47:02.131
And in a lot of relationships and in a lot of churches, i
00:47:02.131 --> 00:47:05.201
Think you've got to do the work to fight for reconciliation,
00:47:05.201 --> 00:47:08.504
To have the hard conversations to address the
00:47:08.504 --> 00:47:11.340
Conflict and not just be offended and hurt and
00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:14.143
Walk out the doors.
00:47:14.143 --> 00:47:15.311
Because ultimately, we're better when our roots are
00:47:15.311 --> 00:47:18.080
Planted in the house of god, and that's where we flourish.
00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:21.484
Yeah, i think having safe and sanctified spaces and
00:47:21.484 --> 00:47:25.321
Relationships to grieve, you know, because this is real.
00:47:25.321 --> 00:47:28.624
And even as we're talking about it, i do feel like the weight
00:47:28.624 --> 00:47:31.994
Of it for some people, they're like, it wasn't just an
00:47:31.994 --> 00:47:35.264
Attitude from a congregant.
00:47:35.264 --> 00:47:36.699
It wasn't like just that-- it was real trauma, you know?
00:47:36.699 --> 00:47:40.703
And i think having safe and sanctified spaces and great
00:47:40.703 --> 00:47:44.907
People that will not just let you scream it and cry it, but
00:47:44.907 --> 00:47:49.645
Also will make sure that you are not grieving the
00:47:49.645 --> 00:47:52.348
Holy spirit as you do it.
00:47:52.348 --> 00:47:54.116
You know that you are not going into that pitfall of slander
00:47:54.116 --> 00:47:59.021
And the bitter roots that can really take ahold of your life.
00:47:59.021 --> 00:48:03.659
So even for me, like i have someone
00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:05.294
That i have that i do that with every tuesday.
00:48:05.294 --> 00:48:07.763
Every tuesday morning, you know,
00:48:07.763 --> 00:48:09.332
Where i'm like, she's my screaming friend.
00:48:09.332 --> 00:48:10.933
You know, like when i feel the weight of things, i do not let
00:48:10.933 --> 00:48:15.037
It stay in me.
00:48:15.037 --> 00:48:16.572
I let it come out.
00:48:16.572 --> 00:48:17.573
But she will keep me in line.
00:48:17.573 --> 00:48:19.342
Like she will make sure that i
00:48:19.342 --> 00:48:20.876
Stay christian even in those moments.
00:48:20.876 --> 00:48:23.612
That's great. yeah. that's great.
00:48:23.612 --> 00:48:25.982
We've talked a lot about church hurt, and i think one thing
00:48:25.982 --> 00:48:30.252
That's important for all of us to recognize is that there are
00:48:30.252 --> 00:48:33.255
Churches that are unhealthy, and there are also a lot of
00:48:33.255 --> 00:48:36.158
Beautiful, healthy churches.
00:48:36.158 --> 00:48:38.260
So how do you find a healthy church?
00:48:38.260 --> 00:48:41.063
I think one of the qualities that you should be looking for
00:48:41.063 --> 00:48:43.899
Is, is there a system of accountability?
00:48:43.899 --> 00:48:46.502
You want to make sure that when you plug in and you engage in a
00:48:46.502 --> 00:48:49.638
Church, that there's there's a structure of accountability,
00:48:49.638 --> 00:48:52.742
That it's not just a pastor or a couple pastors who just are
00:48:52.742 --> 00:48:57.380
Doing it all.
00:48:57.380 --> 00:48:58.047
They're the one man show.
00:48:58.047 --> 00:48:59.382
But you want to make sure that there's actually leadership in
00:48:59.382 --> 00:49:01.684
Your pastor's lives.
00:49:01.684 --> 00:49:02.952
For myself and my husband, we have a board of pastors that
00:49:02.952 --> 00:49:06.922
Speak into our life.
00:49:06.922 --> 00:49:08.057
They challenge us. they encourage us.
00:49:08.057 --> 00:49:09.592
They call us out.
00:49:09.592 --> 00:49:10.860
And that accountability is what helps us be healthy leaders.
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:14.597
So i think one of the number one questions you can ask is
00:49:14.597 --> 00:49:17.700
What is your system for accountability?
00:49:17.700 --> 00:49:19.969
And if church has accountability in place,
00:49:19.969 --> 00:49:21.971
I'm telling you it's going to be a good place for you to be.
00:49:21.971 --> 00:49:25.775
Blynda, thank you for sharing from a very honest place.
00:49:25.775 --> 00:49:28.611
You've given us handles and hope because you've come out
00:49:28.611 --> 00:49:32.214
The other side, walking through fire and not smelling like
00:49:32.214 --> 00:49:34.984
Smoke, and a living testament of loving the church even after
00:49:34.984 --> 00:49:40.623
It might have hurt you for a season.
00:49:40.623 --> 00:49:42.358
I'm going to go ahead and close this out with a prayer for
00:49:42.358 --> 00:49:43.993
Anyone that might be experiencing any church hurt
00:49:43.993 --> 00:49:46.595
Or residual pain.
00:49:46.595 --> 00:49:48.731
It's not ignored. validate it.
00:49:48.731 --> 00:49:50.900
Love you too much to let you stay there.
00:49:50.900 --> 00:49:52.501
So good. spirit living god,
00:49:52.501 --> 00:49:54.970
We recognize our frailty as humanity.
00:49:54.970 --> 00:49:57.540
We fall short, we make mistakes.
00:49:57.540 --> 00:49:58.908
And so god will you forgive us for how we have unintentionally
00:49:58.908 --> 00:50:03.179
Hurt others.
00:50:03.179 --> 00:50:04.313
And for those that are experiencing church hurt at
00:50:04.313 --> 00:50:06.449
The hands of unhappy, unhealthy, unholy leadership,
00:50:06.449 --> 00:50:10.019
We pray that your healing touch meet them right now and i pray
00:50:10.019 --> 00:50:13.756
For restoration to take place,
00:50:13.756 --> 00:50:15.124
Lord god, for conversations matthew 18:15, that you go to
00:50:15.124 --> 00:50:18.661
Your brother who offended you.
00:50:18.661 --> 00:50:19.895
You go to your sister who offended you, and that there's
00:50:19.895 --> 00:50:21.297
Healing that can happen.
00:50:21.297 --> 00:50:22.531
And for those that know that they cannot enter into those
00:50:22.531 --> 00:50:24.533
Spaces, will you bring them healing god, bring them
00:50:24.533 --> 00:50:26.402
Community, bring them restoration.
00:50:26.402 --> 00:50:28.137
Give them hope for the church yet again. thank you for the
00:50:28.137 --> 00:50:31.207
Conversation, the honest conversation that happened in
00:50:31.207 --> 00:50:33.576
This place, and we pray that it brings you glory.
00:50:33.576 --> 00:50:36.112
In jesus' name, amen. amen.
00:50:36.112 --> 00:50:39.348
Connect with us on social media and let us know how our team
00:50:40.516 --> 00:50:43.319
Can pray for you.
00:50:43.319 --> 00:50:45.087
Join our conversations anytime, anywhere.
00:50:45.955 --> 00:50:48.724
Download tbn+ to stream your favorite episodes.
00:50:48.724 --> 00:50:48.724

Healing from Church Hurt - Episode 1089

August 28, 2025 | S7 E1089 | 52:34

Closed captions

Share