Better Together

How Family Faces Grief - Episode 1078

July 16, 2025 | S7 E1078 | 52:34

Sheila Walsh, Naomi Raine, Nicole Binion, Kirsten Watson, and Elyse Mahan show how families can face grief with honesty, love, and grace, creating space to come together for healing even amid profound loss.

#Family #Grief #Healing #Loss #Compassion #Honesty #Love #Grace #EmotionalHealth #Unity #Communication #Death #Pain #Emptiness #PersonalStory #Singer/Songwriter #Leaders

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Show Timecode

Better Together | How Family Faces Grief - Episode 1078 | July 16, 2025

- when tragedy or loss strikes a family,
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You learn how to grieve together.
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Difficult seasons are an opportunity
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To find healing and hope.
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Come on, let's talk about it.
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[music]
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- today, we're going to talk about grief,
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And i understand now that people deal with grief so differently.
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My father died when i was five, and my sister was seven,
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And my brother was little.
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And we didn't deal with it.
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We just moved on.
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And that was the reason that further down the line,
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I ended up in a psychiatric hospital when i'm 34 years old
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Because it's like all this stuff.
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You think you've buried it, but you've buried it alive,
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And it keeps dealing with you until you deal with it.
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But then, i get married.
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And from a family that--
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Like my family, where we don't raise our voices,
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We don't do anything, i married into a family.
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Barry's family have never had an unspoken thought
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In their life.
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- i love it.
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- my people.
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- they've never had an unspoken thought.
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I love it.
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- and there were like four sisters.
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His mom had three other sisters.
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- what did you do?
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- but they were never all talking to one another.
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I mean, one sister was always on the out,
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And everybody would be mad at her.
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But it was when i first met barry's mom.
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His dad was older.
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They had like a 14-year age difference.
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But his dad was just a sweetheart,
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Just lovely and very welcoming.
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His mom was not thrilled with me at all.
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In fact, she wanted barry to get a notarized letter from me
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Saying that if i broke up with him at any point in our life,
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He'd get the engagement ring back.
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- oh my goodness.
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- notarized.
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- yeah, notarized.
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Not just some old--
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- go to the post office and get it notarized right now.
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- but it was so interesting because our relationship was
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Really challenging because i didn't know how to respond to
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Somebody who would be literally that far from your nose and
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Yelling in your face.
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I just didn't have the toolkit to know what do you do with
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This, and how can i fix this?
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So, there were many years, the first couple of years of our
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Marriage, where it was just a, "i'm honestly not quite sure
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What to do here, lord.”
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And i'm kind of--
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I think i'm a bit over trying because i've been trying and
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Trying and trying.
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Then, i get pregnant.
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And at the same time as i get pregnant,
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She discovers she has liver cancer.
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So, they give her 18 months to two years to live.
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And at that point, i'm traveling with women of faith,
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And we're gone every weekend, and i take christian with me
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Because he's just a wee boy.
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And she calls one day and i say, "well, let me get barry,”
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Because i know she didn't want to talk to me.
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She wanted to talk to him.
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And she's like, "actually, no, it's you i want to talk to.”
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And i'm like, "oh, yeah, great.”
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And she said, "i've decided that for at least the next year,
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Wherever you go, i'm coming with you.”
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And i'm like--
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- i love this story.
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- "yay.”
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But, you know, the faithfulness of god,
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The holy spirit said to me, "sheila, get out of the way.”
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And so, that year was actually amazing because i watched a
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Grandmother with her grandson and how much
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They loved each other.
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And she didn't like me any more than she had before,
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But she loved him.
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And she wanted to be healed.
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I took her to every healing service.
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I've been in services with things i've never heard said
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Before from a platform, but she was desperate.
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And i'm like, "ok, i'm your woman.
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I will take you to all of them."
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- yeah.
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- but then, when eleanor passed,
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It was watching the way that they differently grieved over
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That because it was very clear toward the end.
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I mean, she was in hospice care, but in their home.
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So, barry, and i, and christian moved in with them
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To help take care of her.
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But nobody would talk about the fact she was dying.
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I mean, barry's dad was just very much like,
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♪ la, la, la, la, la ♪
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I mean, it was just, you know, if ever i tried to say
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Anything about anything.
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And for barry, it was an area that was too tender for him.
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He couldn't deal with it.
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But i'll never forget her funeral.
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She had asked me--
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And i'd never seen a dead person before.
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In scotland, caskets are closed immediately when somebody dies.
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So, there's no open casket.
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But she said to me, "listen, will you go in before the
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Viewing and make sure i look the way i want to look and make sure
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That my hair is the way it wants to be.”
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And can i wear the earrings you wore on your wedding day?”
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And i'm like, "yeah, sure, absolutely.”
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And so, i think it was a learning experience.
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I've never been through anything like that.
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But i made sure she looked exactly as she knew
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She wanted to look.
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And then, barry and william come in.
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They've been waiting before the official view starts.
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And william walks up to the casket and, you know,
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Says a few words, leans down, kisses her on the cheek,
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And steps back.
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And barry--
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I will never forget this.
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He walked up to the casket and he screamed.
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Literally like a primal scream and collapsed.
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And i wasn't quite sure what was going on.
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He and i talked about this last night,
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And he said, "no, it's ok.
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It's ok to share that.”
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So, his dad and i kind of picked him up
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And got him together.
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I went and got him something cold to drink,
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And the funeral director gave him a valium or something,
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Gave him something.
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And it was--
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What i realized afterwards, because he and i were talking
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About this last night.
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And he said the thing that hit him was she suddenly looked like
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He kind of always wanted her to look,
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Like she just had fiery red hair and she had a fiery temper.
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I mean, i loved her, actually really loved her.
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But she was very fiery, and always yelling,
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And always telling you what was what's wrong.
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"you shouldn't do that.
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Put that down and put that there.”
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And i mean, i went away for a weekend,
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And she came to my house and rearranged all my furniture.
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I come home, and nothing was in the same place.
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I'm going to sit down and it's like, "oh,
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There's no longer a seat here.”
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But having said that, i could see the little girl, eleanor,
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And i loved her.
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But for barry, it was like suddenly, she was there,
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And she was serene and peaceful.
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And he said the other thing is he realized it was too late to
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Say all the things he wished he could have said.
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It was too late to have that conversation of sitting down and
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Saying, "hey, you know, mom, you know
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When you did this and you know when you--”
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Like she would, when he was in college,
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Or i guess he was still at home, she would open his mail.
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She would pick up the extension in the house to
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Listen to his phone calls.
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And he said, "i so wished i had taken time to sit down and say,
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'you know, when you do that, it makes me
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Feel very uncomfortable.'“
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It's just something about grief that teaches you
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A lot about yourself.
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- i believe that a healthy way to approach grief as a family is
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To talk about it.
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I'm a big believer in creating the space to say the things and
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To talk about it.
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And so, i think even though one issue,
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One thing could be happening, there could be a lot of
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Different perspectives on how that one situation is actually
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Resonating within a person.
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So, i just believe talking about it, and asking questions,
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And following up on those questions is the best way to
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Handle grief as a family and realizing that different people
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Need different things at different times.
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- even the sisters, the way the sisters--
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In the last, i don't know, maybe a couple of weeks,
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The hospice nurses were phenomenal.
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And i would always take the night shift.
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And so, they would work with me and help me to know how much
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Morphine to give to take the edge of the pain off,
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But not so much that she was having, you know,
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She was seeing things that weren't that weren't there.
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And so, i would usually sit up with her all during the night.
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And there was just something about the process of watching,
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Knowing how much to give her, but not too much.
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But one of the sisters came over one day, and elena,
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She was still in quite a bit of pain,
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And she pushed me out of the way.
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And she said, "i am going upstairs.
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You're trying to kill her.”
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And i'm like, "i am not trying to kill her.
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I'm trying to help her navigate her journey home.”
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But there was--
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One of them refused to come to the funeral.
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One of them said i was trying to kill her because of her
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Madame alexander doll collection.
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I don't even like dolls.
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I mean, there was just so many interesting things.
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- the extremes of emotions i go through in your stories is wild.
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- one of them smacked me on the face at the funeral.
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And it was like--
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But in the most interesting conversation about grief was
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With her maybe three or four nights before she died.
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- really?
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- sitting on the edge of her bed.
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I would actually usually get into bed with her,
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And she was a lutheran, and i would sing through
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The lutheran hymn book.
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She loved these hymns.
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One night, she just sat up and she said,
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"i know why god's not healed me.
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If it was you, he would have healed you.
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But i've made some really bad choices in my life.”
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And she said, "i just want you to know,
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I know i made your life hard.”
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And i'm like, "i have no idea what you mean.”
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And we had such an honest conversation that night.
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It was like--
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It was amazing.
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I will forever be grateful because by the time that i'm
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Making sure her hair's the way, i genuinely loved her
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With my own heart.
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And i would have smacked anybody who tried
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To get in my way.
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But her thing was, "i know i'm dying, and i know it's my fault,
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And i know god doesn't love me as much as he loves you.”
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I happen to sit with my mother-in-law and say, "listen,
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Let's just go over everything again that we actually
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Know to be true.
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God does not love me one grain of sand more than he loves you.
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That's just not it.
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When god looks down, we all stand--
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I mean, we're all standing together.
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God looks at you and thinks, 'my daughter.'
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Does he know that you've screwed up?
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Yeah.
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Does he know that i've screwed up?
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Yeah.
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That's why jesus came.”
00:10:24.847 --> 00:10:26.415
And it's interesting because i said to her,
00:10:26.415 --> 00:10:28.884
"is there anything that i could do in your honor when you leave,
00:10:28.884 --> 00:10:32.888
When you go home?”
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And she said, well, "you know the piano in our church?”
00:10:34.156 --> 00:10:36.125
And i'm like, yes, "i know the piano.”
00:10:36.125 --> 00:10:37.526
I've tried to sing to that piano in many a service where it
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Sounded like the guy was playing in one key
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And i'm playing in another.
00:10:42.898 --> 00:10:43.933
It was an out of tune piano.
00:10:43.933 --> 00:10:45.935
And she said, "wouldn't it be lovely to have a new piano?”
00:10:45.935 --> 00:10:48.871
And i said, "yes.”
00:10:48.871 --> 00:10:50.406
So, i found this wonderful piano, and had it engraved,
00:10:50.406 --> 00:10:52.875
"in memory of eleanor phaler.”
00:10:52.875 --> 00:10:54.643
And it was used for the first time with me singing
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"how great thou art” at her funeral.
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And i just thought, "you know, god,
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You're such a masterful father.
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You're a wonderful creator.
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You're a merciful father.
00:11:05.488 --> 00:11:08.057
But you're such a good, good father that you understand what
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Every single one of us is going through,
00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:15.865
That we do grieve differently.”
00:11:15.865 --> 00:11:17.633
But i'm thinking of people who are grieving right now,
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And i'm thinking, "it's ok to pay attention to that and ask
00:11:20.069 --> 00:11:24.840
The hard questions.”
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You know, why do you feel this way?
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And to be able to remove that thing from her thinking,
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"if i'd lived differently, i would not be dying.”
00:11:32.081 --> 00:11:34.884
So, i would love to know.
00:11:34.884 --> 00:11:36.952
I mean, we've all--
00:11:36.952 --> 00:11:38.187
We're all at an age where somebody has either we've gone
00:11:38.187 --> 00:11:41.423
Through a divorce, or a death, or something that just causes
00:11:41.423 --> 00:11:44.994
That kind of grief, which kind of silences you for a while.
00:11:44.994 --> 00:11:49.865
- we lost my dad about four years ago.
00:11:49.865 --> 00:11:53.669
I'm so grateful that myself, my mom, and my brother--
00:11:53.669 --> 00:11:57.473
We all lived in different states at the time,
00:11:57.473 --> 00:12:00.409
And you know, we were all there in the hospital room together.
00:12:00.409 --> 00:12:04.780
And it's wild to watch someone pass from this life to the next.
00:12:04.780 --> 00:12:09.151
It's a--
00:12:09.151 --> 00:12:10.119
I found it to be a beautiful thing.
00:12:10.119 --> 00:12:12.688
And to stand there, you know, with my brother,
00:12:12.688 --> 00:12:19.161
With my mom and cheer my dad on into heaven, seeing, you know,
00:12:19.161 --> 00:12:30.272
While worshiping, while he was making his way.
00:12:30.272 --> 00:12:33.342
And it's a wild thing then to go,
00:12:33.342 --> 00:12:38.080
"here we are in this hospital room.
00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:39.849
There's dad's body, but his spirit is not there,
00:12:39.849 --> 00:12:43.786
He's with the lord.”
00:12:43.786 --> 00:12:44.987
And you have all of his things.
00:12:44.987 --> 00:12:47.022
And you're like, "ok, here's his clothes that
00:12:47.022 --> 00:12:50.860
He wore to the hospital.
00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:52.061
Here's, you know--
00:12:52.061 --> 00:12:54.597
I guess we're just going to pack up the suitcase
00:12:54.597 --> 00:12:55.865
And take it home,” you know?
00:12:55.865 --> 00:12:57.533
But he's not going home with us.
00:12:57.533 --> 00:12:59.969
It was difficult.
00:12:59.969 --> 00:13:05.507
And even in the weeks that followed,
00:13:05.507 --> 00:13:08.077
Processing the grief with my mom,
00:13:08.077 --> 00:13:12.147
With my brother being there.
00:13:12.147 --> 00:13:13.482
He was so present and there for her.
00:13:13.482 --> 00:13:16.952
My sister in law--
00:13:16.952 --> 00:13:17.887
All the family came in, you know,
00:13:17.887 --> 00:13:19.088
For the service and everything to celebrate his life.
00:13:19.088 --> 00:13:22.491
For us all to be present together during that time was
00:13:22.491 --> 00:13:26.262
Such a beautiful thing, and it brought us closer together.
00:13:26.262 --> 00:13:29.265
Grieving together as a family is so hard,
00:13:29.265 --> 00:13:32.735
But it can be so beautiful.
00:13:32.735 --> 00:13:34.336
And it is so important to have the conversations
00:13:34.336 --> 00:13:37.539
That we need to have.
00:13:37.539 --> 00:13:38.974
We don't always get the opportunity to have those.
00:13:38.974 --> 00:13:41.610
But, man, if you've got a chance to do that, take it,
00:13:41.610 --> 00:13:45.981
Do it.
00:13:45.981 --> 00:13:48.150
- when my mom, and my brother, and i were there in that
00:13:48.250 --> 00:13:51.787
Hospital room with my dad as he passed from this life into the
00:13:51.787 --> 00:13:55.457
Next one with the lord, you know,
00:13:55.457 --> 00:14:00.095
Just being present there together in that moment brought
00:14:00.095 --> 00:14:04.300
So much strength, and comfort, and love to each one of us.
00:14:04.300 --> 00:14:07.803
And it was really a blessing to be able to be together
00:14:07.803 --> 00:14:12.007
At that moment.
00:14:12.007 --> 00:14:14.843
And it brought strength to us.
00:14:14.843 --> 00:14:18.380
It was really, while it was so, so hard,
00:14:18.380 --> 00:14:22.451
It was also so beautiful.
00:14:22.451 --> 00:14:25.521
- to walk that journey together as a family, our small family,
00:14:26.822 --> 00:14:30.759
And even from miles apart, and him flying in and out of
00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:34.296
California to chicago at the time during the coming months
00:14:34.296 --> 00:14:38.734
And years that, you know--
00:14:38.734 --> 00:14:40.502
Now, thankfully, my mom lives near us.
00:14:40.502 --> 00:14:43.005
She's moved by us.
00:14:43.005 --> 00:14:45.240
So, you know, she's no longer kind of--
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.409
I mean, she had tons of friends and family that surrounded her,
00:14:47.409 --> 00:14:50.446
But none of her children lived by her.
00:14:50.446 --> 00:14:52.748
And to watch your parent lose their spouse of 55 years,
00:14:52.748 --> 00:14:58.754
I mean, like there's so many layers to the grieving to like
00:14:58.754 --> 00:15:04.927
To watch your parent--
00:15:04.927 --> 00:15:07.396
You know, you know, if you've been married for a long time,
00:15:07.396 --> 00:15:10.065
You know, you become such a team, right?
00:15:10.065 --> 00:15:12.634
You know, usually in healthy marriages,
00:15:12.634 --> 00:15:14.336
To watch mom and experience my mom without my dad and kind of
00:15:14.336 --> 00:15:20.509
The how that shifts things and changes things.
00:15:20.509 --> 00:15:24.213
And it is so layered.
00:15:24.213 --> 00:15:26.615
But i'm grateful that the grieving the loss of my dad
00:15:26.615 --> 00:15:31.653
Brought us closer together.
00:15:31.653 --> 00:15:34.023
I know that's not always the case for people.
00:15:34.023 --> 00:15:35.958
And we all do, you know, grieve different.
00:15:35.958 --> 00:15:37.926
I mean, my mom is more emotive, just in life,
00:15:37.926 --> 00:15:41.296
Like just a bigger personality than myself.
00:15:41.296 --> 00:15:44.700
I'm pretty quiet in my grief, in my tears.
00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:47.336
I'm like, "let me go to my room and kind of
00:15:47.336 --> 00:15:50.205
Just cry it out,” you know?
00:15:50.205 --> 00:15:51.707
Beauty through loss and pain, you know, is a god thing,
00:15:51.707 --> 00:15:56.979
And he works in all of it, but i'm grateful for the time.
00:15:56.979 --> 00:16:01.250
I'm grateful that we walked through that as a family.
00:16:01.250 --> 00:16:08.057
- hi, this is sheila.
00:16:08.624 --> 00:16:09.725
I'm here with nicole, and we're behind the scenes
00:16:09.725 --> 00:16:11.293
At better together.
00:16:11.293 --> 00:16:12.494
And we're talking about when families grieve together.
00:16:12.494 --> 00:16:16.198
So, here's one of the questions that were sent in.
00:16:16.198 --> 00:16:17.800
I'd love to talk to you about this.
00:16:17.800 --> 00:16:19.401
How can we support family members in seasons of shared
00:16:19.401 --> 00:16:22.271
Grief when we all grieve differently?
00:16:22.271 --> 00:16:25.107
That is so true.
00:16:25.107 --> 00:16:26.408
I think in seasons of grief, there's two words i think of,
00:16:26.408 --> 00:16:29.244
And that's space and grace.
00:16:29.244 --> 00:16:30.612
I noticed that when barry's dad died--
00:16:30.612 --> 00:16:33.816
He had moved in with us after barry's mom passed,
00:16:33.816 --> 00:16:35.918
And we loved him.
00:16:35.918 --> 00:16:37.052
I mean, he was just a character.
00:16:37.052 --> 00:16:38.420
He would let christian do things we would
00:16:38.420 --> 00:16:39.788
Never let him do.
00:16:39.788 --> 00:16:40.989
It was perfect.
00:16:40.989 --> 00:16:42.224
He loved having his grandpa living with us.
00:16:42.224 --> 00:16:43.826
But the three of us all responded differently to
00:16:43.826 --> 00:16:46.495
William's death.
00:16:46.495 --> 00:16:47.863
Barry was kind of almost numb to it at first.
00:16:47.863 --> 00:16:50.532
I was very--
00:16:50.532 --> 00:16:53.836
I was really grieving his loss because i'd never
00:16:53.836 --> 00:16:56.205
Grown up with a dad.
00:16:56.205 --> 00:16:57.573
And suddenly having him in the house, it was lovely.
00:16:57.573 --> 00:16:59.274
Whereas my son, i watched my son, and he was angry.
00:16:59.274 --> 00:17:01.877
And i watched that, and one day i said to him, "hey, babe,
00:17:01.877 --> 00:17:05.280
You know, let's go for a walk,”
00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:06.748
Because he's a boy.
00:17:06.748 --> 00:17:07.950
You know, he doesn't just talk to you straight away.
00:17:07.950 --> 00:17:09.718
- right, right.
00:17:09.718 --> 00:17:10.819
- and i said, "are you angry, christian?”
00:17:10.819 --> 00:17:12.554
And he said, "yeah, i'm angry.”
00:17:12.554 --> 00:17:13.822
And i said, "well, talk to me about that.”
00:17:13.822 --> 00:17:14.990
He said, "mom, you said that god answers prayer.
00:17:14.990 --> 00:17:17.493
And we were in the ambulance following grandpa to the
00:17:17.493 --> 00:17:21.430
Hospital, and i prayed, 'god, please don't take my papa.'
00:17:21.430 --> 00:17:24.233
And he did, so i don't want to talk to god.”
00:17:24.233 --> 00:17:26.401
And i said, "i totally get that.”
00:17:26.401 --> 00:17:29.338
I said, "here's what's even better.
00:17:29.338 --> 00:17:30.672
God gets that too."
00:17:30.672 --> 00:17:31.940
- yeah.
00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:33.275
- you get to be angry, but you don't get to hurt yourself or to
00:17:33.275 --> 00:17:35.177
Hurt anyone else.
00:17:35.177 --> 00:17:36.278
I bought him boxing gloves and a punching bag.
00:17:36.278 --> 00:17:38.647
And i said, "you know what, babe?
00:17:38.647 --> 00:17:40.449
When you're angry and you've so many questions
00:17:40.449 --> 00:17:42.584
You don't know what to do, hit that thing
00:17:42.584 --> 00:17:44.319
Until you were exhausted.
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:45.654
But then, you get to collapse into the arms of a god that's
00:17:45.654 --> 00:17:47.990
Big enough for you to be angry.”
00:17:47.990 --> 00:17:49.458
I think space is important and grace is important
00:17:49.458 --> 00:17:52.995
Because we do all grief.
00:17:52.995 --> 00:17:54.663
- yeah, space and grace.
00:17:54.663 --> 00:17:56.932
I love that.
00:17:56.932 --> 00:17:57.933
- we wish that for you.
00:17:57.933 --> 00:17:59.034
Space and grace.
00:17:59.034 --> 00:18:00.636
- we are better together because of you.
00:18:01.537 --> 00:18:03.839
- connect with us on social media to ask a question,
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.542
Share a prayer request, and make friends with women
00:18:06.542 --> 00:18:08.777
All over the world.
00:18:08.777 --> 00:18:09.912
- that's right.
00:18:09.912 --> 00:18:10.812
Let's keep the conversation going.
00:18:10.812 --> 00:18:12.999
[music]
00:18:13.048 --> 00:18:15.584
- i think sometimes when we can suppress grief for so long,
00:18:15.584 --> 00:18:19.621
It'll just come out in different ways.
00:18:19.621 --> 00:18:21.456
And for me, i am--
00:18:21.456 --> 00:18:25.294
If anyone knows anything about the enneagram.
00:18:25.294 --> 00:18:27.129
Enneagram three, which just means i love doing stuff
00:18:27.129 --> 00:18:31.500
And i love trophies.
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:33.468
- yes, you do.
00:18:33.468 --> 00:18:34.570
- and if i am grieving, it's not grief,
00:18:34.570 --> 00:18:36.305
It's just extra room to work.
00:18:36.305 --> 00:18:37.973
And so my whole life, i hadn't really processed grief.
00:18:37.973 --> 00:18:44.947
I wouldn't have even called things grieving.
00:18:44.947 --> 00:18:46.648
Like when our youth pastors left and took half the church in
00:18:46.648 --> 00:18:51.153
The same town, i just got busy rebuilding.
00:18:51.153 --> 00:18:56.592
And me and my best friends became the youth pastors.
00:18:56.592 --> 00:18:58.860
And we're like, "oh, well, what do we do now?”
00:18:58.860 --> 00:18:59.995
I never thought of grief as grief.
00:18:59.995 --> 00:19:02.965
I thought it just was something that happened,
00:19:02.965 --> 00:19:05.634
And then you move on.
00:19:05.634 --> 00:19:06.902
And i remember when the transition between my dad
00:19:06.902 --> 00:19:10.138
Handing the church to another couple,
00:19:10.138 --> 00:19:12.708
A church that me and my dad had been pastoring for a long time.
00:19:12.708 --> 00:19:16.311
Like my mom and him led it together,
00:19:16.311 --> 00:19:17.779
But i worked with my dad.
00:19:17.779 --> 00:19:19.548
So, i had started as his assistant and office assistant.
00:19:19.548 --> 00:19:22.918
And by the time he was handing it over,
00:19:22.918 --> 00:19:25.387
I was doing everything with him.
00:19:25.387 --> 00:19:27.856
And we were so close, and i thought
00:19:27.856 --> 00:19:30.525
We'd be doing it forever.
00:19:30.525 --> 00:19:31.793
And then, he handed the church over.
00:19:31.793 --> 00:19:33.095
And then, my uncle, my mom's actually last living close
00:19:33.095 --> 00:19:36.832
Relative, both her parents had passed,
00:19:36.832 --> 00:19:38.900
Lived with us for the last seven months of his life when
00:19:38.900 --> 00:19:41.236
He had brain cancer.
00:19:41.236 --> 00:19:43.038
And to see cancer close up like that,
00:19:43.038 --> 00:19:45.974
To see the journey that he went on was the very first time
00:19:45.974 --> 00:19:51.980
Family had been taken in that sense.
00:19:51.980 --> 00:19:55.350
And to watch him go home to be with jesus.
00:19:55.350 --> 00:19:57.686
And i know he is talking to cs lewis up there doing theology.
00:19:57.686 --> 00:20:03.191
And straight after that, we transferred the church.
00:20:03.191 --> 00:20:07.062
A couple of weeks after that, i moved to los angeles.
00:20:07.062 --> 00:20:10.098
And i didn't realize compound grief.
00:20:10.098 --> 00:20:13.135
I was in a new city just trying to like do stuff.
00:20:13.135 --> 00:20:16.071
A year after that, i met my ex-husband.
00:20:16.071 --> 00:20:19.041
We get married.
00:20:19.041 --> 00:20:20.609
He then leaves.
00:20:20.609 --> 00:20:22.511
And i just hadn't taken account of any of it.
00:20:22.511 --> 00:20:26.114
I hadn't grieved any of it.
00:20:26.114 --> 00:20:27.816
And so, i remember being on the plane.
00:20:27.816 --> 00:20:30.886
It was almost christmas and my dad had flown to la
00:20:30.886 --> 00:20:34.189
To basically come get me.
00:20:34.189 --> 00:20:35.957
And the church was incredible.
00:20:35.957 --> 00:20:38.794
And they're like, "hey, why don't you go to australia for a
00:20:38.794 --> 00:20:40.462
Few months to grieve?”
00:20:40.462 --> 00:20:41.830
And i was like, "ok, if you call it grieving, that's fine.”
00:20:41.830 --> 00:20:43.565
I just knew it was about to be summer in australia.
00:20:43.565 --> 00:20:45.467
And i was like, "sounds good.”
00:20:45.467 --> 00:20:46.635
And so, i really wasn't--
00:20:46.635 --> 00:20:49.004
I was like, it's fine.
00:20:49.004 --> 00:20:50.005
I'll get married in 30 days.
00:20:50.005 --> 00:20:51.606
I was like, there's other cultures where they grieve for
00:20:51.606 --> 00:20:53.875
30 days, and then they get remarried.
00:20:53.875 --> 00:20:55.210
That's going to be me.
00:20:55.210 --> 00:20:56.144
Seven years later.
00:20:56.144 --> 00:20:57.279
And i remember being on the plane,
00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:59.881
And being on the way home, and just feeling numb and being
00:20:59.881 --> 00:21:06.488
Like, "i think i'm meant to be more emotional,”
00:21:06.488 --> 00:21:09.558
But waiting for it to come.
00:21:09.558 --> 00:21:12.427
And christmas came, and i was trying to just keep it all
00:21:12.427 --> 00:21:17.332
Together for my family.
00:21:17.332 --> 00:21:18.667
And my family were trying to like--
00:21:18.667 --> 00:21:21.737
You know, if you're watching someone in your family grieve,
00:21:21.737 --> 00:21:24.573
You're just trying to figure out how they're going to grieve so
00:21:24.573 --> 00:21:27.576
You can know how to help them.
00:21:27.576 --> 00:21:29.811
And my grief at first felt numb,
00:21:29.811 --> 00:21:33.882
But just looked like anger at everyone that loved me.
00:21:33.882 --> 00:21:37.085
Just angry.
00:21:37.085 --> 00:21:38.920
And i just remember lashing out at my family and internally
00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:44.693
Being like, "this is not about you,
00:21:44.693 --> 00:21:46.328
And i don't know how to tell you that i'm just so mad,
00:21:46.328 --> 00:21:49.431
But he's not here to tell him because he left.
00:21:49.431 --> 00:21:53.068
So, let me lash out at the people that i know are not
00:21:53.068 --> 00:21:57.105
Walking away.”
00:21:57.105 --> 00:21:58.340
And if you're someone that has grieved like that before,
00:21:58.340 --> 00:22:00.242
You know it's not fair, and you know, you wish you didn't.
00:22:00.242 --> 00:22:04.079
But grief is just no respecter of method in so many moments.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.950
And it's not convenient.
00:22:08.950 --> 00:22:10.419
- i wish there was a simple solution to curing the numb.
00:22:11.620 --> 00:22:15.924
Do you know what i'm talking about?
00:22:15.924 --> 00:22:17.225
Where you're in the seasons of just pain on pain on pain or
00:22:17.225 --> 00:22:21.229
Accumulated grief, and suddenly, there is so much happening it's
00:22:21.229 --> 00:22:25.133
Kind of hard to feel anything.
00:22:25.133 --> 00:22:27.002
I've been there multiple seasons of my life.
00:22:27.002 --> 00:22:31.173
And to be honest, i can't give you a three-step process.
00:22:31.173 --> 00:22:37.179
It's messy and different every time, but i can tell you this,
00:22:37.179 --> 00:22:41.416
That the first step is admitting it.
00:22:41.416 --> 00:22:45.153
It's not pretending everything's fine,
00:22:45.153 --> 00:22:47.923
But just kind of admitting that you feel numb.
00:22:47.923 --> 00:22:50.358
Bringing it to god, bringing it to other people who can be
00:22:50.358 --> 00:22:56.698
Family to you, trusted spaces to be in.
00:22:56.698 --> 00:22:59.401
And then, i've just found that my numb has been cured in the
00:22:59.401 --> 00:23:05.340
Same way that a frozen block of ice has been melted.
00:23:05.340 --> 00:23:09.511
It's been thawed out slowly, sometimes in moments that you
00:23:09.511 --> 00:23:16.184
Don't even notice until you say, "oh, wow, this is melting away.”
00:23:16.184 --> 00:23:19.888
Reminds me of that verse in the word that says he will replace a
00:23:19.888 --> 00:23:23.825
Heart of stone for a heart of flesh.
00:23:23.825 --> 00:23:26.261
There has to be a taking out, a thawing away.
00:23:26.261 --> 00:23:30.532
I really do believe a part of that is a miracle,
00:23:30.532 --> 00:23:34.336
But the good news is that i think in the way that james says
00:23:34.336 --> 00:23:40.876
That when we ask for wisdom, he gives it no matter what.
00:23:40.876 --> 00:23:43.478
I think if we ask god to trade out the numb,
00:23:43.478 --> 00:23:46.515
He does it every time, bit by bit, not as fast as we'd like.
00:23:46.515 --> 00:23:55.257
But i'll be praying that he does it for you.
00:23:55.257 --> 00:23:59.327
- i remember when i started my therapy journey and how so much
00:24:00.629 --> 00:24:04.799
Anger had come out and so much injustice,
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.836
And i did it the right way.
00:24:07.836 --> 00:24:09.137
This shouldn't be happening to me, you know?
00:24:09.137 --> 00:24:11.773
And finally, one day, it just breaking and just this
00:24:11.773 --> 00:24:19.814
Overwhelming sense of not just my divorce,
00:24:19.814 --> 00:24:24.786
But of moving to the other side of the world and not realizing
00:24:24.786 --> 00:24:31.192
How lonely that would be for so long, of seeing my uncle,
00:24:31.192 --> 00:24:35.297
Who was a professor in english, not be able to put words
00:24:35.297 --> 00:24:39.534
Together because the cancer in his brain,
00:24:39.534 --> 00:24:41.836
But still be able to pray in a different language every single
00:24:41.836 --> 00:24:45.907
Day, seeing my parents transition a church and have
00:24:45.907 --> 00:24:52.314
That church do them wrong and have them not fight it.
00:24:52.314 --> 00:24:56.384
And these things, it's almost like i started to watch these
00:24:56.384 --> 00:25:00.388
Things that i had ignored.
00:25:00.388 --> 00:25:04.392
And there's this story in ezekiel 37.
00:25:04.392 --> 00:25:09.297
It's the valley of the dry bones,
00:25:09.297 --> 00:25:11.533
Where the lord takes ezekiel, and it says he puts him in the
00:25:11.533 --> 00:25:15.203
Middle of the valley that's full of bones.
00:25:15.203 --> 00:25:18.139
And he says, "he caused me to pass all around them.
00:25:18.139 --> 00:25:21.476
And behold, there were very many bones in the open valley,
00:25:21.476 --> 00:25:25.814
And they were very, very dry.
00:25:25.814 --> 00:25:28.216
And he said to me, 'son of man, can these bones live?'“
00:25:28.216 --> 00:25:31.586
And i just remember that moment where it felt like i had tried
00:25:31.586 --> 00:25:35.657
To ignore the bones for so long, and then god was like,
00:25:35.657 --> 00:25:39.527
"i need you to deal with this.”
00:25:39.527 --> 00:25:41.997
But i think the beauty of it is that he was there in it.
00:25:41.997 --> 00:25:46.134
He didn't leave me in the valley.
00:25:46.134 --> 00:25:47.736
And he let me be honest enough to be like, "i don't know.
00:25:47.736 --> 00:25:51.306
I don't know if there's life after this.”
00:25:51.306 --> 00:25:54.309
It's really easy on the other side of it to be like,
00:25:54.309 --> 00:25:56.845
"there is life and he restores.”
00:25:56.845 --> 00:25:59.180
And that is so important to hold on to when you're in the
00:25:59.180 --> 00:26:02.884
Middle of the dry bones, and the death,
00:26:02.884 --> 00:26:05.220
And the open carcasses that have no dignity because they should
00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:08.790
Have been given a proper closure.
00:26:08.790 --> 00:26:10.792
But grief doesn't always give you proper closure.
00:26:10.792 --> 00:26:13.461
And that moment of just being like, "god,
00:26:13.461 --> 00:26:16.731
I don't know if i can do this.
00:26:16.731 --> 00:26:20.201
Are you done with me?
00:26:20.201 --> 00:26:21.836
Because i feel like i don't have anything where
00:26:21.836 --> 00:26:24.739
You could use anymore.”
00:26:24.739 --> 00:26:26.207
And just recently again, seven years later,
00:26:26.207 --> 00:26:29.744
Right before i met tim a few years ago,
00:26:29.744 --> 00:26:32.380
I was in another season of compound grief because clearly,
00:26:32.380 --> 00:26:35.850
I don't learn my lessons, and had been busy, and working,
00:26:35.850 --> 00:26:38.920
And doing, and god just put me again.
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:40.755
Like we're going to deal with this.
00:26:40.755 --> 00:26:42.290
And the kindness of god, even in the moments of compounded
00:26:42.290 --> 00:26:45.660
Grief of i cannot take another bone,
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:47.629
Of him letting me be honest enough to be like, "hey,
00:26:47.629 --> 00:26:50.932
Before i ask you to speak to them,
00:26:50.932 --> 00:26:53.034
Before i ask you to get up, before i ask you to believe
00:26:53.034 --> 00:26:55.870
Again, let's be honest.
00:26:55.870 --> 00:26:58.540
Can they live?”
00:26:58.540 --> 00:27:00.108
And it's ok to be honest in the midst of grief with god.
00:27:00.108 --> 00:27:04.245
In fact, i see it all throughout this.
00:27:04.245 --> 00:27:07.148
The honesty part of grief is, i think,
00:27:07.148 --> 00:27:10.251
Honestly what took me by surprise,
00:27:10.251 --> 00:27:13.288
But has walked me through healing as well.
00:27:13.288 --> 00:27:15.490
- one thing that i've learned to appreciate about grief is
00:27:16.725 --> 00:27:20.895
That it helps us become acquainted with god in a way
00:27:20.895 --> 00:27:25.100
That we wouldn't if we didn't go through it, right,
00:27:25.100 --> 00:27:28.303
As our comforter and as our healer.
00:27:28.303 --> 00:27:30.705
And so, i don't know god as healer unless i'm broken.
00:27:30.705 --> 00:27:35.643
I don't know god as comforter unless i'm in
00:27:35.643 --> 00:27:38.012
Some level of discomfort.
00:27:38.012 --> 00:27:39.981
And so, i would want to encourage you.
00:27:39.981 --> 00:27:42.817
I don't know exactly what you're going through,
00:27:42.817 --> 00:27:45.954
But i do know that god is a healer and i do know that
00:27:45.954 --> 00:27:49.124
He's a god of comfort.
00:27:49.124 --> 00:27:50.558
And i would ask that you would allow him to heal,
00:27:50.558 --> 00:27:54.929
Allow him to comfort.
00:27:54.929 --> 00:27:56.931
And whatever defenses or whatever things,
00:27:56.931 --> 00:28:00.702
Walls that we might build up, that you would relax and let god
00:28:00.702 --> 00:28:05.640
Be god, and let god heal, and let him show you who he is
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:10.211
In the midst of your grief, i think you have a very unique
00:28:10.211 --> 00:28:14.616
Opportunity to see god show up as god.
00:28:14.616 --> 00:28:18.953
- i'm like in a similar boat i think, being honest.
00:28:19.053 --> 00:28:22.090
You know, i've lost loved ones, not many super close,
00:28:22.090 --> 00:28:26.461
And so we thank the lord for that.
00:28:26.461 --> 00:28:29.330
And there have been some, you know,
00:28:29.330 --> 00:28:30.832
Personal areas of shifts and loss that have been hard to
00:28:30.832 --> 00:28:34.969
Navigate, but as the thing that comes up for me is sometimes
00:28:34.969 --> 00:28:39.073
When you lose something that hasn't died,
00:28:39.073 --> 00:28:42.577
That is still there and that is still in my face,
00:28:42.577 --> 00:28:47.682
It's almost like, "man, i have to be honest about this.”
00:28:47.682 --> 00:28:50.985
Like it's not that it's dead or the person is dead,
00:28:50.985 --> 00:28:53.321
I just don't have them anymore.
00:28:53.321 --> 00:28:55.623
And i think about some of my experiences with--
00:28:55.623 --> 00:28:59.594
You know, i sing with a singing group called
00:28:59.594 --> 00:29:01.462
Maverick city music.
00:29:01.462 --> 00:29:03.231
And we have experienced just layers of loss with the people
00:29:03.231 --> 00:29:11.039
That have been around.
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.208
And i'm, you know, i'm a straight shooter.
00:29:13.208 --> 00:29:15.476
I keeps it real.
00:29:15.476 --> 00:29:17.212
But it has been difficult for me.
00:29:17.212 --> 00:29:20.582
And maybe it's because i hadn't really lost people before.
00:29:20.582 --> 00:29:24.352
You know, i like to be at peace with everyone, right?
00:29:24.352 --> 00:29:27.789
And that's just how i've lived my life.
00:29:27.789 --> 00:29:29.791
I've always been able to maintain relationships.
00:29:29.791 --> 00:29:31.726
We don't have to speak every day, but when we do talk, girl,
00:29:31.726 --> 00:29:34.062
We're back to where we were.
00:29:34.062 --> 00:29:35.129
And just going through i didn't know
00:29:35.129 --> 00:29:39.200
That tour was traumatic.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:40.735
I didn't know that, you know, leaving your home,
00:29:40.735 --> 00:29:44.739
And traveling around, and not being in the same space,
00:29:44.739 --> 00:29:46.875
But doing it with people creates some beautiful bonds.
00:29:46.875 --> 00:29:50.511
It could also create some trouble,
00:29:50.511 --> 00:29:51.946
But it creates beautiful bonds.
00:29:51.946 --> 00:29:53.348
And then, losing those, because those people are the only people
00:29:53.348 --> 00:29:55.750
That understand what you've gone through,
00:29:55.750 --> 00:29:57.785
What you've done, and all that.
00:29:57.785 --> 00:29:59.020
And then, losing some of those people,
00:29:59.020 --> 00:30:00.755
Not by any choice of your own, but just because of the way life
00:30:00.755 --> 00:30:05.860
Works, it's been one of the toughest things in the world
00:30:05.860 --> 00:30:10.164
Because this thing that has been so beautiful,
00:30:10.164 --> 00:30:13.067
This thing that has been so connected to my purpose,
00:30:13.067 --> 00:30:16.504
My call, and ministry, not singing, right,
00:30:16.504 --> 00:30:19.741
But ministry and what the lord has called me to has also
00:30:19.741 --> 00:30:24.379
Supplied such a great level of grief.
00:30:24.379 --> 00:30:28.416
And i didn't know what to call it,
00:30:28.416 --> 00:30:31.786
But i definitely did the work-y thing.
00:30:31.786 --> 00:30:33.821
Wrote a bunch of songs.
00:30:33.821 --> 00:30:35.556
Praise god because he works all things together.
00:30:35.556 --> 00:30:37.759
Didn't we say it?
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:38.793
He'll work the things together for good.
00:30:38.793 --> 00:30:40.795
But it was very hard, and i don't think i was able to really
00:30:40.795 --> 00:30:43.498
Get honest about how hard it was until maybe like a year ago.
00:30:43.498 --> 00:30:46.768
And if i'm honest, like, i don't really have much more to
00:30:46.768 --> 00:30:50.204
Say because i think i'm okay.
00:30:50.204 --> 00:30:53.174
Like, i've gotten to the place where i'm okay with not being
00:30:53.174 --> 00:30:56.711
Okay, and not having the answers to all of it, and just saying,
00:30:56.711 --> 00:31:01.883
"yo, life is hard.”
00:31:01.883 --> 00:31:03.451
And here's a hard part.
00:31:03.451 --> 00:31:06.087
And i'm walking through it.
00:31:06.087 --> 00:31:08.022
I'm grateful for reconnection because even though
00:31:08.022 --> 00:31:10.625
Relationships are intact, sometimes it's just the actual
00:31:10.625 --> 00:31:14.262
Pain of the moment, you know?
00:31:14.262 --> 00:31:15.663
And so, i've been discovering grief and being okay.
00:31:15.663 --> 00:31:20.568
And sad was an emotion i wasn't allowed to feel because of what
00:31:20.568 --> 00:31:24.973
Was going on in my home when i was growing up.
00:31:24.973 --> 00:31:26.941
I could feel angry.
00:31:26.941 --> 00:31:27.942
I could feel confused.
00:31:27.942 --> 00:31:29.677
I could ask why.
00:31:29.677 --> 00:31:30.912
You know, mommy always said, "you can always ask why.”
00:31:30.912 --> 00:31:32.814
You know, we can be curious.
00:31:32.814 --> 00:31:34.349
Sad was not one.
00:31:34.349 --> 00:31:37.151
And it wasn't them, it was something i put on myself.
00:31:37.151 --> 00:31:38.987
Sad is bad.
00:31:38.987 --> 00:31:42.256
We don't do sad.
00:31:40.288 --> 00:31:43.558
And so, i always had a weird relationship with it.
00:31:43.558 --> 00:31:46.461
It's like, learn how to be happy, find some silver lining,
00:31:46.461 --> 00:31:49.230
And you know, see how god is working in all of it.
00:31:49.230 --> 00:31:52.467
And maybe, you know--
00:31:52.467 --> 00:31:53.735
I mean, and not to be insensitive,
00:31:53.735 --> 00:31:55.536
And i know this is a thing, and i understand now the revelation
00:31:55.536 --> 00:31:58.606
That people get, but you know how people say, "well,
00:31:58.606 --> 00:32:00.241
Maybe they're healed on the other side,”
00:32:00.241 --> 00:32:01.876
And things like that, just that was my cup of tea, right?
00:32:01.876 --> 00:32:04.979
But at my big age of 37, i'm like, "this sucks.
00:32:04.979 --> 00:32:09.250
And it's okay to be sad.
00:32:09.250 --> 00:32:10.651
And it's okay to deal with that.”
00:32:10.651 --> 00:32:13.087
And i've actually grown to learn.
00:32:13.087 --> 00:32:15.223
I think you said earlier this week that experiencing sadness,
00:32:15.223 --> 00:32:19.861
Experiencing pain, right, has also allowed me to experience a
00:32:19.861 --> 00:32:22.730
Great level of joy.
00:32:22.730 --> 00:32:24.065
And actually, i realized that my grief is only present because
00:32:24.065 --> 00:32:26.934
There was something that i valued and it's
00:32:26.934 --> 00:32:28.703
Something that i loved.
00:32:28.703 --> 00:32:29.737
It's something that was beautiful.
00:32:29.737 --> 00:32:31.406
- you know, this life of walking with jesus
00:32:32.407 --> 00:32:33.975
Is a life of faith.
00:32:33.975 --> 00:32:35.977
And i remember when i was younger,
00:32:35.977 --> 00:32:38.379
Walking through challenging seasons, really in a valley,
00:32:38.379 --> 00:32:45.853
A valley season, where things were difficult,
00:32:45.853 --> 00:32:48.790
And stepping out in faith to trust and believe that god had
00:32:48.790 --> 00:32:54.262
Something beautiful and wonderful on the other side of
00:32:54.262 --> 00:32:57.832
The difficult time.
00:32:57.832 --> 00:33:00.001
And he has always been so faithful.
00:33:00.001 --> 00:33:03.171
You know, the lord is so attracted to our faith.
00:33:03.171 --> 00:33:05.440
And when we choose to step out, walk on the water,
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:10.778
Like we saw peter do in the gospels,
00:33:10.778 --> 00:33:12.947
He meets us at our point of faith every time.
00:33:12.947 --> 00:33:17.385
And so, now the wonderful thing of, like, living a few,
00:33:17.385 --> 00:33:21.489
You know, decades now of walking with the lord in my own adult
00:33:21.489 --> 00:33:24.926
Life, i now can look back on what god has done in seasons
00:33:24.926 --> 00:33:31.299
Past and know that every time, he has come through.
00:33:31.299 --> 00:33:35.470
And so, now, when i find myself in a dark night of the soul,
00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:39.107
In a valley season where things are so hard,
00:33:39.107 --> 00:33:43.611
I now have enough history with the lord that
00:33:43.611 --> 00:33:47.014
He has been so faithful.
00:33:47.014 --> 00:33:48.816
And so, now, it's easier for me to trust and know that walking
00:33:48.816 --> 00:33:53.955
Through this valley, walking through this dark time,
00:33:53.955 --> 00:33:56.557
I know that god has something great waiting for me
00:33:56.557 --> 00:34:02.563
On the other side.
00:34:02.563 --> 00:34:04.332
And you know, that is what--
00:34:04.332 --> 00:34:05.500
The life of becoming more like jesus,
00:34:05.500 --> 00:34:08.035
We're going to face trials in this life.
00:34:08.035 --> 00:34:10.972
And so, we can actually, you know,
00:34:10.972 --> 00:34:16.210
There's a scripture that says, "count it all joy
00:34:16.210 --> 00:34:18.446
When you face trials”
00:34:18.446 --> 00:34:20.014
Because you've got to know that it produces endurance and that
00:34:20.014 --> 00:34:24.418
You actually become complete and whole in jesus when you build
00:34:24.418 --> 00:34:29.957
This endurance muscle.
00:34:29.957 --> 00:34:31.626
And so, this is the life of a follower of jesus,
00:34:31.626 --> 00:34:36.998
That we continue to trust him, knowing that he has good things
00:34:36.998 --> 00:34:40.935
And he's making something really good out of me as i continue to
00:34:40.935 --> 00:34:44.972
Trust him, walk through the dark seasons,
00:34:44.972 --> 00:34:47.208
And right into the beautiful bright sunshine that's ahead of
00:34:47.208 --> 00:34:54.215
The dark season.
00:34:54.215 --> 00:34:56.784
- i think because i was so--
00:34:57.451 --> 00:34:59.420
I escaped from family.
00:34:59.420 --> 00:35:01.622
Even though i was living with them and doing all the things,
00:35:01.622 --> 00:35:03.558
I had escaped and found a new family.
00:35:03.558 --> 00:35:05.793
It was like the loss of something that i felt like,
00:35:05.793 --> 00:35:09.730
Oh, this is good.
00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:10.932
Everybody understands, right?
00:35:10.932 --> 00:35:12.700
We're all on the same page.
00:35:12.700 --> 00:35:14.235
We're all doing the same thing.
00:35:14.235 --> 00:35:15.102
Nobody's like--
00:35:15.102 --> 00:35:16.137
You know, and we all probably get this.
00:35:16.137 --> 00:35:17.772
You know, the men in ministry don't get, "how's your family?”
00:35:17.772 --> 00:35:20.508
You know, the women get, "well, who's at home?”
00:35:20.508 --> 00:35:23.945
"their daddy.”
00:35:23.945 --> 00:35:26.013
You know, but these people, i was with a group of people that
00:35:26.013 --> 00:35:30.017
Understood, and they didn't have to question it,
00:35:30.017 --> 00:35:31.686
And they got the whole thing.
00:35:31.686 --> 00:35:33.087
And so, to lose that, i think, was like
00:35:33.087 --> 00:35:35.189
One of the hardest things.
00:35:35.189 --> 00:35:36.757
But i'm grateful because i feel like i'm learning lessons,
00:35:36.757 --> 00:35:40.494
And i'm learning that it's okay.
00:35:40.494 --> 00:35:44.065
It's just okay.
00:35:44.065 --> 00:35:45.299
And so, that's where i am.
00:35:45.299 --> 00:35:46.734
- i think that's huge, learning that it's okay not to be okay
00:35:46.734 --> 00:35:49.971
Because i think we think there's something just--
00:35:49.971 --> 00:35:53.341
It's in the dna of who we are that we have--
00:35:53.341 --> 00:35:56.811
It's like the footprint of eden is still in our souls and we
00:35:56.811 --> 00:36:01.249
Know this is how it was supposed to be.
00:36:01.249 --> 00:36:03.251
And i think so often, we think, "well,
00:36:03.251 --> 00:36:06.454
That's what i should be doing.
00:36:06.454 --> 00:36:07.822
Everything should be okay.”
00:36:07.822 --> 00:36:09.357
Because i've always--
00:36:09.357 --> 00:36:10.825
One of the things i deal with is loneliness.
00:36:10.825 --> 00:36:12.426
I mean, i'm with a lot of people a lot of time,
00:36:12.426 --> 00:36:15.329
But i often feel quite lonely.
00:36:15.329 --> 00:36:17.098
And i used to try and kind of cover it up.
00:36:17.098 --> 00:36:21.235
You know, i would just try and do things.
00:36:21.235 --> 00:36:24.805
And then, i came to this place of thinking, "you know what?
00:36:24.805 --> 00:36:26.774
It's because i'm not home yet.”
00:36:26.774 --> 00:36:29.176
You know, i'm not home yet.
00:36:29.176 --> 00:36:30.811
So, i've learned to embrace that longing, you know?
00:36:30.811 --> 00:36:34.582
I was rereading cs lewis' "mere christianity,”
00:36:34.582 --> 00:36:38.152
And he was talking about how we deal with the fact
00:36:38.152 --> 00:36:40.755
That life's not okay.
00:36:40.755 --> 00:36:42.523
And he said that those who deal with it externally,
00:36:42.523 --> 00:36:45.426
And he calls those fools.
00:36:45.426 --> 00:36:46.727
You know, it's like if i just had a nicer car,
00:36:46.727 --> 00:36:48.896
If i could get married, if i could have a child,
00:36:48.896 --> 00:36:51.465
If i could get that job, if i could get that promotion.
00:36:51.465 --> 00:36:53.834
And then, he talks about others who deal with it internally,
00:36:53.834 --> 00:36:56.070
Where they just come to a place where they think,
00:36:56.070 --> 00:36:57.371
"you know what?
00:36:57.371 --> 00:36:58.072
This is it.
00:36:58.072 --> 00:36:59.006
This is as good as it's going to get.
00:36:59.006 --> 00:37:00.241
You know, i thought i'd be this place by that age,”
00:37:00.241 --> 00:37:02.310
And yeah, just resigned to.
00:37:02.310 --> 00:37:05.579
And he said the third way is to live eternally,
00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:08.015
Where you realize that every longing that is in our souls is
00:37:08.015 --> 00:37:13.554
There for a purpose, and that one of these days,
00:37:13.554 --> 00:37:16.324
Every single longing will be fulfilled.
00:37:16.324 --> 00:37:18.793
But until then, i now embrace that as sacred space.
00:37:18.793 --> 00:37:22.263
I don't try and make it go away.
00:37:22.263 --> 00:37:24.565
I do this thing that my husband thinks is funny,
00:37:24.565 --> 00:37:27.902
But i do it for different reasons.
00:37:27.902 --> 00:37:29.804
Sometimes i'll just take a chair,
00:37:29.804 --> 00:37:31.672
And i'll sit right in the middle of the room,
00:37:31.672 --> 00:37:33.808
And i'll just go sit in the chair, and i'm just like,
00:37:33.808 --> 00:37:37.244
"i'm here, lord,” you know?
00:37:37.244 --> 00:37:43.451
And just, you know, even just going over some of the things
00:37:43.451 --> 00:37:47.121
That are going on and some of the things that don't make
00:37:47.121 --> 00:37:49.223
Sense, but just having this very intentional of--
00:37:49.223 --> 00:37:52.326
Like, meeting a friend for coffee, you know?
00:37:52.326 --> 00:37:54.862
It's like, that's how i feel.
00:37:54.862 --> 00:37:56.364
I'll just put that chair, and i'll just sit there,
00:37:56.364 --> 00:37:58.733
And i'm like, "here i am,” you know?
00:37:58.733 --> 00:38:01.569
And i have found that those places are the places where that
00:38:01.569 --> 00:38:06.707
Longing becomes bearable.
00:38:06.707 --> 00:38:08.743
When i try and fill it with other things,
00:38:08.743 --> 00:38:10.778
It becomes unbearable because they don't fit.
00:38:10.778 --> 00:38:13.280
And i realized they were never meant to fit,
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:16.283
That we have the dna of eden as deep as the marrow in our bones.
00:38:16.283 --> 00:38:24.158
And one day, one day, we'll be home.
00:38:24.158 --> 00:38:29.196
- i had an interesting conversation.
00:38:30.064 --> 00:38:31.499
The other day, i was grabbing a cup of coffee,
00:38:31.499 --> 00:38:33.868
And this woman said, "oh, i see you on tv.
00:38:33.868 --> 00:38:37.438
I watch better together.”
00:38:37.438 --> 00:38:38.606
And i'm like, "oh, hey, nice to meet you.”
00:38:38.606 --> 00:38:39.907
And she said, "you used a phrase one day on one of the
00:38:39.907 --> 00:38:42.610
Shows that didn't really make sense to me.
00:38:42.610 --> 00:38:44.745
You were talking about the fact that we all go through tough
00:38:44.745 --> 00:38:47.314
Things in life, or maybe we have these unresolved dreams,
00:38:47.314 --> 00:38:51.085
Things we wish could have happened,
00:38:51.085 --> 00:38:52.753
And we have this longing.
00:38:52.753 --> 00:38:54.889
And you said that you came to a place of understanding
00:38:54.889 --> 00:38:57.491
We're not home yet.
00:38:57.491 --> 00:38:58.626
What did you mean by that?
00:38:58.626 --> 00:39:00.027
Did you mean you want to go back to scotland?
00:39:00.027 --> 00:39:01.495
What did you mean?”
00:39:01.495 --> 00:39:02.730
And i said, "no, what i meant was that for every single
00:39:02.730 --> 00:39:05.833
Believer, there will come a day when we will be finally home
00:39:05.833 --> 00:39:09.737
Free with jesus, when there will be no more conflict,
00:39:09.737 --> 00:39:12.306
No more arguments, no more sickness, no more death,
00:39:12.306 --> 00:39:15.009
No more misunderstanding.
00:39:15.009 --> 00:39:17.244
And that's when we will finally be home.
00:39:17.244 --> 00:39:19.613
But until then, we have the holy spirit guiding us and
00:39:19.613 --> 00:39:23.651
Walking beside us to help us navigate difficult situations,
00:39:23.651 --> 00:39:27.121
Understanding that because we're not home yet,
00:39:27.121 --> 00:39:30.724
Life will not be perfect, but it will be filled
00:39:30.724 --> 00:39:33.327
With the perfect savior."
00:39:33.327 --> 00:39:34.695
- be the first to know all the latest better together updates.
00:39:35.996 --> 00:39:39.733
Visit bettertogether.tv to sign up for our weekly emails and
00:39:39.733 --> 00:39:43.904
Never miss the latest news.
00:39:43.904 --> 00:39:47.007
Never miss the latest news.
00:39:47.007 --> 00:39:47.676
[music]
00:39:48.009 --> 00:39:51.980
- to the mom who's grieving and trying to take care of her kids
00:39:53.315 --> 00:39:56.885
At the same time, i just give you all the encouragement that i
00:39:56.885 --> 00:40:00.355
Can send through this screen.
00:40:00.355 --> 00:40:01.923
It is hard to manage the hearts of other people, your kids,
00:40:01.923 --> 00:40:07.262
While managing your own stuff.
00:40:07.262 --> 00:40:09.731
And so, my encouragement would be just to go to the lord.
00:40:09.731 --> 00:40:12.567
Go to the lord with the things that you cannot handle.
00:40:12.567 --> 00:40:15.170
Go to the lord with the grief that you had.
00:40:15.170 --> 00:40:17.973
Ask for it to be healed.
00:40:17.973 --> 00:40:19.541
Ask for the lord and the spirit to come in in places that you
00:40:19.541 --> 00:40:23.411
Cannot satisfy for yourself.
00:40:23.411 --> 00:40:25.914
And my biggest encouragement would be not to go to the world
00:40:25.914 --> 00:40:28.517
To help you with that grief, not to go to outside sources to
00:40:28.517 --> 00:40:32.587
Numb, or dull, or erase, or forget the pain,
00:40:32.587 --> 00:40:36.191
But actually to step into it because the freedom on the other
00:40:36.191 --> 00:40:39.160
Side of it is much greater than the pushing down of the true
00:40:39.160 --> 00:40:43.265
Feelings and grief that you're handling
00:40:43.265 --> 00:40:44.666
Or going through right now.
00:40:44.666 --> 00:40:47.202
[music]
00:40:47.536 --> 00:40:50.038
- you know, i was thinking about how my husband and i,
00:40:50.038 --> 00:40:52.607
We've been senior pastors for almost seven years now.
00:40:52.607 --> 00:40:55.911
And we've served on church staff,
00:40:55.911 --> 00:40:58.747
We've been worship pastors, we've done,
00:40:58.747 --> 00:41:00.515
We've loved the body of christ for years.
00:41:00.515 --> 00:41:03.051
We are like, "we love the church.”
00:41:03.051 --> 00:41:04.686
But this season of being senior leaders and, you know,
00:41:04.686 --> 00:41:10.191
When you pour into people and you partner with people that you
00:41:10.191 --> 00:41:14.229
Feel like are going to be a part of the vision that you're
00:41:14.229 --> 00:41:17.165
Building forever, you know, and god leads them a new direction
00:41:17.165 --> 00:41:23.004
Or something happens, and this, you know,
00:41:23.004 --> 00:41:25.774
Happened recently with us where just a dear family who have been
00:41:25.774 --> 00:41:29.444
Partners with us, and you know, and god is leading them a
00:41:29.444 --> 00:41:32.914
Different direction, and it's like, first of all,
00:41:32.914 --> 00:41:36.017
Learning to lead with an open hand that, like,
00:41:36.017 --> 00:41:39.621
I am going to love people.
00:41:39.621 --> 00:41:41.256
You know, i mean, i experienced toxic leadership in my past
00:41:41.256 --> 00:41:45.660
Where, you know, like, we are going to be leaders who love and
00:41:45.660 --> 00:41:48.964
Who bless, but it's hard.
00:41:48.964 --> 00:41:51.533
And i came to that point where i was like, "okay,
00:41:51.533 --> 00:41:54.736
Am i going to trust people again who say--”
00:41:54.736 --> 00:41:57.105
And we had a beautiful staff meeting where we all sat around
00:41:57.105 --> 00:42:02.143
The table and we just honored and loved on this man who has
00:42:02.143 --> 00:42:05.080
Poured in so much to what we're building.
00:42:05.080 --> 00:42:07.549
And it was the most beautiful thing as each staff member went,
00:42:07.549 --> 00:42:12.220
And we all, like, shared our heart with who he and his family
00:42:12.220 --> 00:42:17.559
Had been to us individually and as a church, and i was like,
00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:21.763
I said to him through tears at that table, like,
00:42:21.763 --> 00:42:25.467
"i feel the tendency to toughen up my heart,
00:42:25.467 --> 00:42:30.438
But i don't want to have a tough heart.
00:42:30.438 --> 00:42:33.608
I don't want to have a hard heart.
00:42:33.608 --> 00:42:35.310
I want to remain soft and pliable.”
00:42:35.310 --> 00:42:39.080
And so i'm--
00:42:39.080 --> 00:42:40.849
You know, so it's like when you're grieving a loss,
00:42:40.849 --> 00:42:44.953
Whatever it looks like, it's like, man,
00:42:44.953 --> 00:42:46.688
I want to keep a heart of flesh.
00:42:46.688 --> 00:42:48.323
I don't want to have a heart of stone.
00:42:48.323 --> 00:42:50.525
- when i think about my stages of grief,
00:42:51.459 --> 00:42:53.628
The reason i would say that there is no right or wrong way
00:42:53.628 --> 00:42:57.399
To grieve is because i've never grieved the same way twice.
00:42:57.399 --> 00:43:00.802
So, if there is a right way to grieve,
00:43:00.802 --> 00:43:03.772
Could someone please let me know?
00:43:03.772 --> 00:43:05.273
Because i feel like it looks different in different seasons
00:43:05.273 --> 00:43:07.742
Depending on what i'm grieving, and i'm not making light
00:43:07.742 --> 00:43:11.680
Of grief at all.
00:43:11.680 --> 00:43:13.181
I'm hopefully giving you permission to grieve in the way
00:43:13.181 --> 00:43:16.618
That you're grieving.
00:43:16.618 --> 00:43:18.453
I think having watched seasons of my grief and now even walking
00:43:18.453 --> 00:43:22.023
Two little girls, my daughters, through their own version of a
00:43:22.023 --> 00:43:26.094
Grief experience, i realize that grief is as unique as your
00:43:26.094 --> 00:43:28.897
Fingerprint is to my fingerprint.
00:43:28.897 --> 00:43:32.000
We all do it differently.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:33.568
Maybe the only wrong way to do grief is to deny it,
00:43:33.568 --> 00:43:38.540
Is to not allow grief to be a gift that helps
00:43:38.540 --> 00:43:45.280
Us process loss and pain.
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.682
For so long, i thought that moving on from something was the
00:43:47.682 --> 00:43:51.319
Same as working through.
00:43:51.319 --> 00:43:52.887
I would just suppress grief and just think it would go away.
00:43:52.887 --> 00:43:56.291
I think that was the only way that i've ever done grief wrong
00:43:56.291 --> 00:44:00.562
Because i wasn't really grieving.
00:44:00.562 --> 00:44:02.297
So, however it looks for you, it's not clean, it's messy,
00:44:02.297 --> 00:44:05.900
And that's okay.
00:44:05.900 --> 00:44:07.469
The one thing i would say as well is don't grieve alone.
00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:11.840
Don't try to find a clean way to grieve.
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:16.578
Just find honest companions for the journey.
00:44:16.578 --> 00:44:19.881
- i just wanted to say really quick, i think that oftentimes,
00:44:21.182 --> 00:44:23.685
When we think of grief, we think of losing a person or a
00:44:23.685 --> 00:44:26.621
Situation, but for anyone who's watching,
00:44:26.621 --> 00:44:29.257
Who's grieving a season--
00:44:29.257 --> 00:44:30.425
- yeah.
00:44:30.425 --> 00:44:32.093
- like you said, it seems really silly in the midst of
00:44:32.093 --> 00:44:36.664
Losing family members or we've experienced two miscarriages,
00:44:36.664 --> 00:44:40.335
And we have kids that are getting older.
00:44:40.335 --> 00:44:44.239
I'm grieving my baby.
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:47.442
She's just driving, it's not a big deal.
00:44:47.442 --> 00:44:50.979
- that's a big deal.
00:44:50.979 --> 00:44:52.113
- it's a big deal.
00:44:52.113 --> 00:44:53.348
And so, for the person who's just grieving,
00:44:53.348 --> 00:44:56.217
Watching their kid do the right thing,
00:44:56.217 --> 00:44:58.453
Watching their kid walk and step in obedience
00:44:58.453 --> 00:45:01.623
With the lord, watching--
00:45:01.623 --> 00:45:03.792
Seeing fruit.
00:45:03.792 --> 00:45:05.293
And so for my oldest, if two years, i am grieving.
00:45:05.293 --> 00:45:11.132
- that's real.
00:45:11.132 --> 00:45:13.835
- i am grieving when she needed me in a very specific way that
00:45:13.835 --> 00:45:20.375
She can do by herself now.
00:45:20.375 --> 00:45:22.110
And so, it's just, i don't know,
00:45:22.110 --> 00:45:25.380
Sometimes the grieving looks like it's not bad.
00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:29.350
It's not bad that she's older and that she's--
00:45:29.350 --> 00:45:32.053
But i'm just grieving that.
00:45:32.053 --> 00:45:35.223
- how beautiful is that?
00:45:35.223 --> 00:45:36.591
How beautiful is that?
00:45:36.591 --> 00:45:38.293
You love your children so much that even when god answers the
00:45:38.293 --> 00:45:42.297
Very prayers that you prayed on your knees that
00:45:42.297 --> 00:45:45.733
There is this grief.
00:45:45.733 --> 00:45:47.202
- my prayer for grace as she is moved into this new season is
00:45:48.503 --> 00:45:54.475
That she would stay on her knees at the foot of the cross,
00:45:54.475 --> 00:45:58.112
That she would be listening to the voice of god,
00:45:58.112 --> 00:46:02.183
That she would be developing her relationship because ultimately,
00:46:02.183 --> 00:46:05.687
My job as her mother is to point her to him.
00:46:05.687 --> 00:46:09.390
Like, i'm available, i'm a phone call away, a drive away,
00:46:09.390 --> 00:46:13.428
A plane, whatever, but he is with her more intimately
00:46:13.428 --> 00:46:18.399
Than i could ever be.
00:46:18.399 --> 00:46:20.001
So, my prayer is that although i'm her mother and would do
00:46:20.001 --> 00:46:22.871
Anything for her, she has an abba father, as we talked about,
00:46:22.871 --> 00:46:27.742
That loves her even more than me.
00:46:27.742 --> 00:46:30.778
And so, my prayer is that she would not only lean into that
00:46:30.778 --> 00:46:35.416
Relationship, but trust that relationship and hold on to that
00:46:35.416 --> 00:46:41.289
Relationship with everything she has.
00:46:41.289 --> 00:46:43.658
- i spent some time recently with a woman whose son was
00:46:44.826 --> 00:46:47.962
Killed in a school shooting two years ago.
00:46:47.962 --> 00:46:50.398
And she said, "sheila, i don't know what to do,
00:46:50.398 --> 00:46:52.400
Because people keep telling me to get over it.”
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:54.535
And i said to her, "who would ever want to be a woman who
00:46:54.535 --> 00:46:58.873
Could ever get over the loss of a child?”
00:46:58.873 --> 00:47:03.811
What i've discovered in my own life is that god has this
00:47:03.811 --> 00:47:06.915
Incredible way, i think you touched on it, naomi,
00:47:06.915 --> 00:47:08.917
Of allowing grief and joy to coexist.
00:47:08.917 --> 00:47:12.120
I remember the last days of my mother-in-law,
00:47:12.120 --> 00:47:15.924
It was probably the day before she died,
00:47:15.924 --> 00:47:17.458
And i'm watching over her, and i'm putting a wet rag on her
00:47:17.458 --> 00:47:20.795
Forehead and trying to make sure she's okay,
00:47:20.795 --> 00:47:22.597
And my heart is really breaking, because i knew
00:47:22.597 --> 00:47:25.366
She didn't want to go.
00:47:25.366 --> 00:47:27.201
And i'm looking out the window, and there's my five-year-old
00:47:27.201 --> 00:47:30.405
Son, or maybe he was four at that time,
00:47:30.405 --> 00:47:32.373
Talking to the neighbor's cat and telling the neighbor's cat
00:47:32.373 --> 00:47:35.310
How many times it's failed him.
00:47:35.310 --> 00:47:36.978
[laughter]
00:47:36.978 --> 00:47:39.681
Like, "i told you to be here at six,
00:47:39.681 --> 00:47:41.449
And you weren't here until--”
00:47:41.449 --> 00:47:42.884
And i'm like, "this is just life, you know?”
00:47:42.884 --> 00:47:45.920
And it's like, job, the lord gives, and the lord takes away.
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:50.692
Blessed be the name of the lord.
00:47:50.692 --> 00:47:54.128
Let's pray.
00:47:54.128 --> 00:47:55.830
What i'd love you all to do at home is just
00:47:55.830 --> 00:48:00.468
Give yourself a moment.
00:48:00.468 --> 00:48:02.236
Just give yourself a moment and bring those things,
00:48:02.236 --> 00:48:06.641
Whether it's a season of your life,
00:48:06.641 --> 00:48:09.444
It's the loss of a marriage, of a job,
00:48:09.444 --> 00:48:12.747
Whether it's losing someone or losing a relationship,
00:48:12.747 --> 00:48:17.185
But they're still around.
00:48:17.185 --> 00:48:19.153
All the things that are weighing on you,
00:48:19.153 --> 00:48:21.789
Just bring them to the lord.
00:48:21.789 --> 00:48:24.392
Just hold them up before him and just speak
00:48:24.392 --> 00:48:27.695
His name over everything.
00:48:27.695 --> 00:48:31.866
Just speak the name of jesus over everything and know
00:48:31.866 --> 00:48:37.505
That you are not alone. when you have placed your trust in christ,
00:48:37.505 --> 00:48:44.946
Never will he leave you,
00:48:44.946 --> 00:48:48.149
Never will he forsake you.
00:48:48.149 --> 00:48:50.918
And know that this too shall pass.
00:48:50.918 --> 00:48:54.055
There will no longer be open wounds, there will be scars.
00:48:54.055 --> 00:48:58.926
And scars are proof that god heals.
00:48:58.926 --> 00:49:04.198
So, we lift it all up to you.
00:49:04.198 --> 00:49:07.502
In jesus' name, amen.
00:49:07.502 --> 00:49:11.672
- connect with us on social media and let us know how our
00:49:12.907 --> 00:49:15.410
Team can pray for you.
00:49:15.410 --> 00:49:16.811
[music]
00:49:16.811 --> 00:49:19.714
- i don't know what kind of season you're in at the moment,
00:49:20.982 --> 00:49:23.484
But i was reading an article last night about this family
00:49:23.484 --> 00:49:26.621
That are facing just unspeakable grief,
00:49:26.621 --> 00:49:29.557
Just one of those freak accidents that took away a
00:49:29.557 --> 00:49:32.627
Father and his two daughters.
00:49:32.627 --> 00:49:34.562
And so, the mom who has survived is left alone.
00:49:34.562 --> 00:49:38.032
And as i find myself praying for her,
00:49:38.032 --> 00:49:40.101
Asking god to be so close to her, my prayer for her,
00:49:40.101 --> 00:49:44.205
And it would be the same for you,
00:49:44.205 --> 00:49:45.573
Is that it is so wonderful to have support groups.
00:49:45.573 --> 00:49:49.143
I'm all for that.
00:49:49.143 --> 00:49:50.578
It's wonderful to go for therapy.
00:49:50.578 --> 00:49:52.380
I believe in that too.
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:53.848
It's wonderful to be part of the small church groups,
00:49:53.848 --> 00:49:56.217
But there's also a place where it's just the power of god in
00:49:56.217 --> 00:50:01.923
Your life that can bring this deep, deep comfort.
00:50:01.923 --> 00:50:05.726
You know, we all love romans 8:28,
00:50:05.726 --> 00:50:08.696
But i love romans 8:26 and 27 because what they say is there's
00:50:08.696 --> 00:50:14.802
Times when you're so broken or so--
00:50:14.802 --> 00:50:18.239
It's such a place that you just don't even have words.
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:20.842
Do you know that in those moments the holy spirit prays
00:50:20.842 --> 00:50:24.312
For you and prays with such understanding to the father
00:50:24.312 --> 00:50:28.182
About god's will for your life?
00:50:28.182 --> 00:50:30.418
So, if you're in a place of grief and you don't have words,
00:50:30.418 --> 00:50:33.654
Just know that you do have an advocate who right now is
00:50:33.654 --> 00:50:37.325
Praying for you.
00:50:37.325 --> 00:50:39.193
- stream full episodes of better together on demand.
00:50:40.294 --> 00:50:43.598
Go to bettertogether.tv to stream all of
00:50:43.598 --> 00:50:46.968
Our latest conversations.
00:50:46.968 --> 00:50:48.903
[music]
00:50:48.903 --> 00:50:48.903

How Family Faces Grief - Episode 1078

July 16, 2025 | S7 E1078 | 52:34

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