Better Together

The Promise of Immanuel - Episode 1123

December 17, 2025 | S7 E1123 | 52:34

God is WITH you, and He is FOR you! Our Savior could have made a grand entrance into this world. Instead, He arrived as a baby--born in a dirty stable and placed in a feeding trough. We serve a God who steps into our messy lives and makes all things new. | TBN Prayer Line: 714-731-1000

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Better Together | The Promise of Immanuel - Episode 1123 | December 17, 2025

(beeping sound)
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- jesus could have made a grand entrance,
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But instead he chose to step to this earth as a baby,
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Born in a barn and laid in a manger.
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The christmas story reminds us
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That our savior does not hesitate
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To stoop down into our messy lives.
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Come on, let's talk about it.
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(upbeat music)
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(upbeat music continues)
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- we're talking about what kind of messiah
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Would be born into a messy manger
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And i am grateful.
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Because life is messy.
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We, in 2018,
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Had this massive forest fire come through our city
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In northern california,
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And it was so hot,
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It formed a fire tornado,
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And it jumped over the river into our neighborhood.
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I mean, it was outrageous.
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There were like 65 homes
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And our immediate little neighborhood that were gone,
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So like six down from our house.
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They're gone, there's spot fires
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Where things are just random homes.
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Something flew on fire, it took it out.
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I mean, it was just insane.
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And we were evacuated
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And as we're going, you know,
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Everyone's frantically fleeing as you should.
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- right.
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- i mean, the town is on fire.
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And so there's this backup traffic on the five
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To just get out desperately everyone packed up
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What they could, and they are, they're going.
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My husband saw fire at the end of our street.
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I mean, it was outrageous.
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So in this traffic line, desperately,
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Everyone's just trying to get out.
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Well, coming back up the five in the other direction,
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You have these first responders
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Who are fleeing toward,
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They're running toward the wreckage.
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Toward the destruction.
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Toward the unthinkable.
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And all of us are just trying to get away, you know?
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And i'll never forget seeing those first responders
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And thinking, "that's jesus."
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That is the kind of god who would be found
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In a messy manger.
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The fire is contained
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And there's just wreckage.
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I mean, just people's homes,
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They had no time to get out.
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Every earthly belonging, everything gone.
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And our church and other, you know, organizations,
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Ministries went out and they did this thing
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I'll never forget, i saw jesus in it as well,
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Where they would go these hazmat suits,
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And they're picking through,
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Combing through the ash heaps,
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The rubble, the destruction
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And they're searching for gold.
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They're looking for wedding rings
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That were left on side tables next to the beds
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As people are running, finding diamonds, family heirlooms,
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Anything that could be found and salvaged.
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I mean, combing through, it's, i mean, piles,
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Piles of wreckage and finding some,
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And delivering it to these families,
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What they thought was lost, gone forever,
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And these rings are coming back.
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These are the diamonds and gold.
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Watching that, i thought, "that's jesus too," isn't it?
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The one who would rush in
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When everyone else is going into the hardest places,
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And then would painstakingly
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Pick through every piece of garbage,
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Because he's going to find the gold,
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He's going to find the diamonds,
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He's going to create beauty out of what has been abandoned,
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What has been left,
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What nobody else wants.
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There he is.
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And i think about this story
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And the fact that there's no room for him anywhere,
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I mean, mary's ready to burst,
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The contractions are getting closer and closer
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Right about to that equation
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Where it's like the hospital's like,
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All right, you better come in now
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Or we'll have you come in
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And she's ready to go
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And there's nowhere to have this baby messiah.
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But there is a feeding trough and there's animals,
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There's this manger
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And that's where our savior would be found
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And i just think it speaks to who god is,
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That that's the place he would deliver his son.
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And it speaks prophetically to who this messiah is,
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That he would be found there.
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That that would be the inaugural place of first breath is
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Full of the filth of these animals.
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He's willing to be found anywhere.
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- he's a world. - in anything.
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He's willing to pick through the rubble of our lives,
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To find the gold, to find the valuable.
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And the more that i live life
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And the more i need him,
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The more that the ash heaps have built up,
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The more that fires tear through that are so unexpected.
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I've founded jesus that is rushing in
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Where everybody else is uncomfortable.
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They know what to, they don't have to do,
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I don't want to be there.
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But here i am in the midst of it.
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- yes. - and there he is to be found
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Not only in that messy manger,
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But the messy manger in my life.
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- the nativity story,
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One of my favorite australian scholars,
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His name is john nolan,
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He calls the nativity story,
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The incarnation of jesus christ,
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The humility of the divine condescension.
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I mean, stop and think about it.
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God could reveal himself any way he wanted.
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Jesus could have come in the form of a cloud
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The way shekinah glory did in the old testament.
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Jesus could have come as a king wearing royal robes
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With a scepter that shot lightning out.
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Jesus could have come in any way
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And yet in the kindness of god,
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He presents his son in the most humble of circumstances.
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And of course, what he's illustrating is
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Salvation is for everyone,
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You don't have to be elite,
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There's no hierarchy in the family of god,
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I've made a way for all of you to be reconciled to me,
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The humility of christmas just underscores
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That we get to lean in a gospel of grace.
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This is not a gospel we earn,
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It's by god's grace that we're saved.
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- ever since losing our little girl,
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The anniversary in december,
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It's right before christmas,
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And it's changed christmas for us.
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- yeah, i bet it has.
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- and you hear so many people,
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It seems like just tragedy kind of
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Has a way of gathering around this christmas season.
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But what i've found isn't that it's become tidy.
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It's become sterilized.
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It's become clean.
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I've found time and time again in the memory
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And the everything resurfacing
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And the processing of what you would never hope for.
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That you wake up and you hear alarms
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And all of a sudden life changed forever.
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I've found that jesus there for me too.
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Even in the midst of the season.
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The messiness of grief and disappointment and pain.
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He comes and he still visits.
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He is not afraid of the mess.
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I don't know how we've so sterilized him.
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- right.
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- how religion has his way of making him so clean and tidy.
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But i have found him in my mess.
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I can testify.
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He has been there in the worst,
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In the worst ash heaps in the highest rubble,
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There's jesus.
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And i'm wondering, what's your trash heap?
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Anyone else have a manger they want to testify about,
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Where jesus has shown up?
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- yeah.
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- i love when you said he's willing to be found anywhere.
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- anywhere.
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- yeah, he specializes in the mess. (laughs)
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In the moments.
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When i look over my life,
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It's like at the worst times
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Is when he shines the brightest.
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- yeah. - yes.
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- you know?
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And he doesn't, when you were talking about
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Going through the trash and looking,
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He never gives up.
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- no, he doesn't.
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- he never gives up.
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- no.
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- you know, and that's so encouraging,
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Because you're going to go through times
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Of heartache and pain.
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- yeah.
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- but he's still there.
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We talked about that earlier.
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Being aware that he's there and and he's looking for you.
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- yeah.
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- he's looking for you.
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He's for you.
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- yeah. - yeah.
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- but he specializes.
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So, like you said, i don't know
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Why we've made living for him
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And knowing him so tidy and so neat.
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- right.
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- because when you look at jesus,
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He always showed up in the worst places.
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- that's right.
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- yes. - yes.
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- that's right.
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- and even for the worst kind of people.
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You know, he loves us all, he sees the value.
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He sees the value.
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- he sees the gold and the diamonds.
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- yeah. - he sees it.
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He sees it.
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- probably one of my favorite words
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In the whole wide world is emmanuel, god is with me.
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That's kind of all i need to know.
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God is with me always.
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He will never leave me and that's why he came.
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He wanted to be in us.
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He left us the holy spirit
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When he went to sit at the right hand of the father.
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God is on the inside of us.
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The third person of the holy trinity is within us,
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God with us.
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And that is the most powerful thing i can ever think about.
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- i went from being like on a national television show
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Where you, i would go in every morning
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Looking like i do when i come in here.
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And we have these amazing makeup artists who say,
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"the lord be with you, and the lord be with you."
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To trump us look a little better for tv.
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So i was used to that look.
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And then, you know, my life crashes
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And i end up in a psychiatric hospital.
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And i'll never forget that first morning,
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Because they take away all your stuff,
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Anything you could potentially hurt yourself with.
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So they take away your hair dryer, your makeup or anything.
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And all i have is just a bathrobe.
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And i've been told to go to this room
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Where you can get coffee in the morning
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With the other patients.
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And by the way, in a psych hospital, it's only decaf.
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If ever there was a time in your life
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Where you needed decent cup of coffee.
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So i wander in, and it hadn't even occurred to me
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That because this was a christian unit
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Within a hospital,
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That some of these people would know me.
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If you ever walked into a room and everybody's talking
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Until you walk in and then there's-
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- they're quiet. - silence.
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There's silence.
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And there even there, one guy says,
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"are you sheila walsh?"
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And i said, "yes."
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And he said, "what are you doing here?"
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And i said, "i'm a patient."
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And he was like, "yeah, right."
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I said, "well, you think i'm here to do a
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Documentary in my bathrobe?"
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And he said, "you look a lot better on television."
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(everyone laughing)
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And i said, "you know, i do. i do."
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But here, it was almost this severe mercy
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Of this gift that i will forever be grateful
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Of the lord stripping away everything.
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That made me think i had any value to him
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Or to anybody else.
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And suddenly i find myself in the
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Companionship of brokenness.
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Those who love jesus, but don't have all the answers.
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And it was, i mean, i'm honestly grateful
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For months i spent in a psychiatric hospital
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After years in ministry,
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Because it taught me what it looked like
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To be a follower of jesus.
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Not to be somebody who steps on a platform
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Or has things to say.
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Somebody who simply takes the next step
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And follows after him and follows after him.
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One of the hardest things
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To do is when things are not going well,
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When you find yourself in a really messy season,
00:11:47.062 --> 00:11:49.565
To still believe that god sees you,
00:11:49.565 --> 00:11:51.534
That he sees what's going on.
00:11:51.534 --> 00:11:53.636
I want you to know, you know,
00:11:53.636 --> 00:11:55.337
When david wrote psalm 34,
00:11:55.337 --> 00:11:57.406
He was in a very, very difficult, very broken place.
00:11:57.406 --> 00:12:00.876
He was in a very lonely place as well.
00:12:00.876 --> 00:12:03.746
And yet stopping in the midst of what was true for him
00:12:03.746 --> 00:12:07.750
And reflecting on the character of god,
00:12:07.750 --> 00:12:09.618
He was able to write this,
00:12:09.618 --> 00:12:11.153
"the lord is close to the broken hearted
00:12:11.153 --> 00:12:14.423
And saves those who are crushed in spirit."
00:12:14.423 --> 00:12:18.194
If that's how you feel this christmas,
00:12:18.194 --> 00:12:20.396
If something happened this year
00:12:20.396 --> 00:12:21.664
And you feel kind of broken hearted,
00:12:21.664 --> 00:12:23.165
Or you've got some bad news
00:12:23.165 --> 00:12:24.834
And you feel kind of crushed,
00:12:24.834 --> 00:12:26.669
I want you to remember and hold onto the promise from david,
00:12:26.669 --> 00:12:30.339
"the lord is close when your heart is broken."
00:12:30.339 --> 00:12:33.976
- during the hustle and bustle of the christmas season,
00:12:35.077 --> 00:12:38.080
The only way you can become more aware
00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:41.217
And sensitive to god's presence is to slow down.
00:12:41.217 --> 00:12:45.287
Take some time here and there.
00:12:45.921 --> 00:12:48.424
Sometimes it's best in the morning,
00:12:48.424 --> 00:12:50.759
Sometimes in the middle of the day,
00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:52.728
To just refocus on really what the season is about.
00:12:52.728 --> 00:12:56.165
And asking the lord how he wants you to celebrate,
00:12:56.165 --> 00:12:59.401
Or who does he want you to touch
00:12:59.401 --> 00:13:02.104
In a way that will bring jesus to other people.
00:13:02.104 --> 00:13:04.840
So you have to slow down and get alone in his presence.
00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.878
And sometimes that's just a five minute prayer,
00:13:08.878 --> 00:13:10.980
Sometimes it's when you're in your car,
00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:12.915
Sometimes it's in the morning, you know,
00:13:12.915 --> 00:13:15.284
In your devotional time.
00:13:15.284 --> 00:13:16.886
But you must slow down.
00:13:16.886 --> 00:13:19.521
Take out some time and talk to him.
00:13:19.521 --> 00:13:22.558
(upbeat music)
00:13:22.925 --> 00:13:24.293
- christmas is a time to reflect on god's promises
00:13:24.293 --> 00:13:26.128
And his presence.
00:13:26.128 --> 00:13:27.329
- connect with us on social media.
00:13:27.329 --> 00:13:29.231
We want to hear how you've seen god's hand at work
00:13:29.231 --> 00:13:32.034
In your life this year.
00:13:32.034 --> 00:13:33.702
- [narrator] watch "better together" on the go.
00:13:34.670 --> 00:13:36.739
You can find the "better together" podcast
00:13:36.739 --> 00:13:38.741
On your favorite listening platform.
00:13:38.741 --> 00:13:40.843
Subscribe today.
00:13:40.843 --> 00:13:43.003
Subscribe today.
00:13:43.003 --> 00:13:43.112
(upbeat music)
00:13:43.479 --> 00:13:48.484
- i didn't lose a child the way you lost olive.
00:13:49.418 --> 00:13:53.289
I lost an adoption three days
00:13:53.289 --> 00:13:55.090
Before i was bringing the baby girl home.
00:13:55.090 --> 00:13:57.226
And i called sheila and couldn't even speak.
00:13:57.226 --> 00:14:00.696
Felt like just my heart had been carved out of my chest
00:14:00.696 --> 00:14:03.832
And put on the robe.
00:14:03.832 --> 00:14:05.668
You know, when the shunammite woman, elishah
00:14:05.668 --> 00:14:08.904
Gives her, speaks to child to her,
00:14:08.904 --> 00:14:10.873
And then the child dies. - dies, right.
00:14:10.873 --> 00:14:12.441
- and she's like, mad. - right.
00:14:12.441 --> 00:14:14.310
- and she goes back to elishah
00:14:14.310 --> 00:14:15.577
And goes, "i didn't even hope for this."
00:14:15.577 --> 00:14:17.980
Because she says, "you'll be good."
00:14:17.980 --> 00:14:19.782
She's like, "no, you're coming home with me."
00:14:19.782 --> 00:14:21.717
And it's that kind of that hope deferred,
00:14:21.717 --> 00:14:24.753
Makes the heart sick, all that.
00:14:24.753 --> 00:14:26.855
And so really losing a child with the 11th hours,
00:14:26.855 --> 00:14:30.459
What gave me the grace to step into the process with missy.
00:14:30.459 --> 00:14:33.462
- but think about it, lisa,
00:14:33.462 --> 00:14:34.697
You had been so involved in that pregnancy.
00:14:34.697 --> 00:14:36.598
- i had.
00:14:36.598 --> 00:14:37.933
- you had poured your life into that child.
00:14:37.933 --> 00:14:39.268
- i had.
00:14:39.268 --> 00:14:40.302
Yeah, it was, you know,
00:14:40.302 --> 00:14:41.870
I've often thought i've never grieved that one completely
00:14:41.870 --> 00:14:44.540
Because i did, the little mama was a prostitute
00:14:44.540 --> 00:14:47.543
And a crack addict.
00:14:47.543 --> 00:14:48.644
And i spent the pregnancy with her
00:14:48.644 --> 00:14:50.546
And stayed in the crack house.
00:14:50.546 --> 00:14:51.914
Most interesting christmas i've ever had
00:14:51.914 --> 00:14:54.316
Was spinning a crack house.
00:14:54.316 --> 00:14:55.684
I don't think i would've said yes to missy,
00:14:55.684 --> 00:14:57.820
Because missy was supposed to only live a couple of months.
00:14:57.820 --> 00:15:01.156
But losing that baby at the 11th hour,
00:15:01.156 --> 00:15:03.392
I thought, goodness, even if she is never okay,
00:15:03.392 --> 00:15:07.296
I'll just go to haiti because every child deserves
00:15:07.296 --> 00:15:10.499
Somebody advocating for him.
00:15:10.499 --> 00:15:12.201
Anyway, long story short,
00:15:12.201 --> 00:15:13.569
It was a really arduous two year adoption journey.
00:15:13.569 --> 00:15:16.538
And finally it looked like everything
00:15:16.538 --> 00:15:19.908
Was coming to fruition.
00:15:19.908 --> 00:15:21.076
I was going to bring her home
00:15:21.076 --> 00:15:22.811
And i was going to bring her home
00:15:22.811 --> 00:15:24.246
They set in time for christmas.
00:15:24.246 --> 00:15:25.814
And so i decorated my house like clark griswold.
00:15:25.814 --> 00:15:30.019
I mean, it was, yeah, i'm surprised
00:15:30.019 --> 00:15:32.187
Small planes didn't land at my little cottage
00:15:32.187 --> 00:15:35.624
In leapers fork, just lights,
00:15:35.624 --> 00:15:37.326
I decorated the neighbor's bushes,
00:15:37.326 --> 00:15:38.827
I mean, everything was decorated.
00:15:38.827 --> 00:15:41.563
And i had given up hope
00:15:41.563 --> 00:15:43.432
That i would ever get to buy a stocking
00:15:43.432 --> 00:15:45.868
That said a child's name and mama on it.
00:15:45.868 --> 00:15:49.471
And so, knowing i was bringing missy home,
00:15:49.471 --> 00:15:51.974
I had these, i bought these real bougie stockings,
00:15:51.974 --> 00:15:54.476
Can't remember where i bought them from,
00:15:54.476 --> 00:15:56.211
But i had missy and mama embroidered on
00:15:56.211 --> 00:15:58.781
Them on both sides.
00:15:58.781 --> 00:16:00.449
So just in case they flipped,
00:16:00.449 --> 00:16:01.950
It would be on both sides
00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:03.252
And i was so proud of those stockings.
00:16:03.252 --> 00:16:08.457
And then in october, i got a letter from haiti that said,
00:16:09.591 --> 00:16:13.962
"you're not going to get her before christmas.
00:16:13.962 --> 00:16:15.631
As a matter of fact, you're probably not going
00:16:15.631 --> 00:16:17.800
To get her at all."
00:16:17.800 --> 00:16:19.401
And i can remember the day
00:16:19.401 --> 00:16:21.804
That i packed up every single christmas decoration
00:16:21.804 --> 00:16:26.308
I had in boxes.
00:16:26.308 --> 00:16:28.644
And i had this kind of storage under the stairs
00:16:28.644 --> 00:16:31.647
And i shoved cardboard boxes under the stairs
00:16:31.647 --> 00:16:34.383
And i thought, i will never hang
00:16:34.383 --> 00:16:36.151
Another stocking in my life,
00:16:36.151 --> 00:16:37.920
And i won't be around my friends at christmas
00:16:37.920 --> 00:16:39.788
Because i don't want to ruin theirs
00:16:39.788 --> 00:16:41.590
But my heart can't take one more loss.
00:16:41.590 --> 00:16:43.826
I thought, i can't take it.
00:16:43.826 --> 00:16:46.361
And that christmas, the christmas of my greatest grief
00:16:46.361 --> 00:16:50.532
Was the christmas that god's presence was palpable.
00:16:50.532 --> 00:16:54.670
I could feel,
00:16:54.670 --> 00:16:56.238
I don't even know how to put words around it,
00:16:56.238 --> 00:16:58.440
When i grew up baptist
00:16:58.440 --> 00:16:59.675
So we're not given to signs of wonders,
00:16:59.675 --> 00:17:01.810
I'm more pentecostal now, but goodness gracious,
00:17:01.810 --> 00:17:06.248
The tangible presence of god.
00:17:06.248 --> 00:17:10.919
In the, not just the mess of my life,
00:17:10.919 --> 00:17:13.922
But the grief. - that's it.
00:17:13.922 --> 00:17:15.424
- of that christmas.
00:17:15.424 --> 00:17:16.625
And it made me see,
00:17:16.625 --> 00:17:18.794
There's this little tidbit in that first christmas story.
00:17:18.794 --> 00:17:22.931
You know, we all know bethlehem
00:17:22.931 --> 00:17:24.533
And we sing about a little town of bethlehem,
00:17:24.533 --> 00:17:27.503
But the name bethlehem, beit lechem in hebrew,
00:17:27.503 --> 00:17:31.707
Is house of bread.
00:17:31.707 --> 00:17:34.810
So we usually see the mess of the barn.
00:17:34.810 --> 00:17:36.712
And we forget, a first century semitic person
00:17:36.712 --> 00:17:39.815
Saw a barn as a place they got their meal from.
00:17:39.815 --> 00:17:43.585
Because they didn't have grocery stores.
00:17:43.585 --> 00:17:45.487
So that's where they're going to get the animals,
00:17:45.487 --> 00:17:47.289
They slaughter for food,
00:17:47.289 --> 00:17:48.524
And that's where they're going to get milk,
00:17:48.524 --> 00:17:49.858
And that's where they stored their grain.
00:17:49.858 --> 00:17:51.460
- wow. - wow.
00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:52.427
- and it's like god showed me,
00:17:52.427 --> 00:17:53.929
"yeah, the barn is a mess, lisa
00:17:53.929 --> 00:17:56.999
But that's where i'll feed you."
00:17:56.999 --> 00:17:58.534
Of course i'm a carb girl,
00:17:58.534 --> 00:18:00.235
So house of bread speaks to me as well.
00:18:00.235 --> 00:18:03.238
But i think as a much older woman in the house of god
00:18:03.238 --> 00:18:08.177
And the family of god,
00:18:08.177 --> 00:18:10.312
I've learned that the messiest places in my life
00:18:10.312 --> 00:18:14.016
Are the loveliest meals.
00:18:14.016 --> 00:18:15.684
I don't have to worry about which fork to use.
00:18:15.684 --> 00:18:19.955
I don't have to worry about not spilling spaghetti
00:18:19.955 --> 00:18:22.090
On my white shirt.
00:18:22.090 --> 00:18:23.725
It's those messy tables that are the sweetest meals
00:18:23.725 --> 00:18:28.964
And the sweetest conversations.
00:18:29.598 --> 00:18:31.400
And so i'm so grateful you brought this up
00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:34.403
Because i think in our culture
00:18:34.403 --> 00:18:36.038
We tend to think promise and mess
00:18:36.038 --> 00:18:38.907
Are opposite of the continuum,
00:18:38.907 --> 00:18:40.542
But in the economy of god, promise and mess,
00:18:40.542 --> 00:18:43.579
Even promise and grief are not opposite ends.
00:18:43.579 --> 00:18:48.250
- the promise that god is always with us is our anchor.
00:18:49.384 --> 00:18:53.322
When it feels like things are falling apart,
00:18:53.322 --> 00:18:55.424
When we are out of control,
00:18:55.424 --> 00:18:57.025
We don't have what it takes, why?
00:18:57.025 --> 00:18:58.727
Because we don't need to.
00:18:58.727 --> 00:19:00.395
If i'm anchored to him,
00:19:00.395 --> 00:19:01.530
If i'm connected to him,
00:19:01.530 --> 00:19:02.831
I have all if that i need,
00:19:02.831 --> 00:19:05.167
All sufficient god is with me.
00:19:05.167 --> 00:19:07.869
What am i lacking?
00:19:07.869 --> 00:19:08.904
What don't i have?
00:19:08.904 --> 00:19:11.173
And so come what may any circumstance in the waiting,
00:19:11.173 --> 00:19:14.876
It doesn't matter, he is everything,
00:19:14.876 --> 00:19:18.013
And he is right here in the midst of me.
00:19:18.013 --> 00:19:20.916
- i'm glad that you have those stockings back out.
00:19:21.917 --> 00:19:23.685
- yeah.
00:19:23.685 --> 00:19:24.653
- you know, i bought more
00:19:24.653 --> 00:19:27.289
Because i did get missy six months later,
00:19:27.289 --> 00:19:29.958
Total miracle of god
00:19:29.958 --> 00:19:31.493
And we have so many missy and mama stockings.
00:19:31.493 --> 00:19:35.731
I could give them to you to hang into your home as well.
00:19:35.731 --> 00:19:39.434
I mean, you know, but then the gift is even greater.
00:19:39.434 --> 00:19:42.638
I didn't know that he would bring it back around.
00:19:42.638 --> 00:19:45.574
Yeah, such a good god,
00:19:45.574 --> 00:19:46.908
Such a good god.
00:19:46.908 --> 00:19:47.876
- you know, i find all of us,
00:19:47.876 --> 00:19:49.111
We travel a lot
00:19:49.111 --> 00:19:50.479
And don't you find when you go
00:19:50.479 --> 00:19:52.447
To some of the roughest places,
00:19:52.447 --> 00:19:54.683
The people who are suffering the most.
00:19:54.683 --> 00:19:56.451
- yes.
00:19:56.451 --> 00:19:57.719
- you experience the tangible presence of god
00:19:57.719 --> 00:20:00.188
In such a way, it's just like-
00:20:00.188 --> 00:20:02.324
- true.
00:20:02.324 --> 00:20:03.158
- i don't know.
00:20:03.158 --> 00:20:04.526
It's like they experience something that we don't,
00:20:04.526 --> 00:20:08.163
When we are so tied up in trying to be perfect,
00:20:08.163 --> 00:20:11.400
And it's like we don't even invite him to the table.
00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:14.569
- it's like we put a cap on his power,
00:20:14.569 --> 00:20:16.772
We sanitize it.
00:20:16.772 --> 00:20:17.773
- that's it.
00:20:17.773 --> 00:20:18.774
- it's like, let it be messy.
00:20:18.774 --> 00:20:20.142
- and if it's not perfect, then it's not him.
00:20:20.142 --> 00:20:22.611
You know, when the lord is like, i just want your heart.
00:20:22.611 --> 00:20:24.413
You know, i just want you.
00:20:24.413 --> 00:20:26.515
And you go into these places, it's like, we miss it.
00:20:26.515 --> 00:20:29.284
- yeah. - we miss him
00:20:29.284 --> 00:20:31.787
Because it's a mess, we miss it.
00:20:31.787 --> 00:20:33.622
- yes. - yes, right.
00:20:33.622 --> 00:20:35.557
- and he's in the mess.
00:20:35.557 --> 00:20:37.893
- yes.
00:20:37.893 --> 00:20:38.927
- one of the things that really
00:20:38.927 --> 00:20:40.595
Has left a lasting impression on me,
00:20:40.595 --> 00:20:42.998
I used to work with an organization called aim,
00:20:42.998 --> 00:20:45.200
And it would be rescuing young girls out of sex trafficking.
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:48.136
And so i would work a lot in cambodia
00:20:48.136 --> 00:20:50.138
And in thailand, in bangkok,
00:20:50.138 --> 00:20:52.941
And this one place in cambodia, in phnom penh,
00:20:52.941 --> 00:20:56.812
It's just, it's awful.
00:20:56.812 --> 00:20:58.680
And so many of the girls in this area,
00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:01.316
I mean the area is filthy,
00:21:01.316 --> 00:21:02.951
You go into this tunnel and then there's steps down
00:21:02.951 --> 00:21:05.487
Into where they have to take these,
00:21:05.487 --> 00:21:06.621
I mean, it's horrible.
00:21:06.621 --> 00:21:08.623
And i had been there one year
00:21:08.623 --> 00:21:11.293
And we'd spent some time with some of the girls
00:21:11.293 --> 00:21:12.961
And talked to them
00:21:12.961 --> 00:21:14.029
And i was aware of their pimp,
00:21:14.029 --> 00:21:15.897
He was keeping an eye on me the whole time.
00:21:15.897 --> 00:21:19.101
Fast forward, almost christmas the next year
00:21:19.101 --> 00:21:22.571
And i go back and i see some of the same girls,
00:21:22.571 --> 00:21:25.974
Spent some time with them and i asked where he is
00:21:25.974 --> 00:21:29.411
And i discover that he had been listening
00:21:29.411 --> 00:21:32.547
In the year before to our team
00:21:32.547 --> 00:21:34.649
When we were there praying over the girls,
00:21:34.649 --> 00:21:37.185
He had given his life to jesus.
00:21:37.185 --> 00:21:38.854
- oh my goodness.
00:21:38.854 --> 00:21:40.355
- and he's now married and his wife's expecting a baby.
00:21:40.355 --> 00:21:42.791
And i thought, god, only you in this filthy, hot,
00:21:42.791 --> 00:21:48.063
Dirty, given over to evil.
00:21:48.630 --> 00:21:50.565
- that's amazing.
00:21:50.565 --> 00:21:52.000
- but somehow one of our team, i don't know who it was,
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.902
Prayed over a girl and he heard and he thought,
00:21:53.902 --> 00:21:57.572
"that's what i want.
00:21:57.572 --> 00:21:59.207
That's what i want."
00:21:59.207 --> 00:22:00.108
God shows up in the mess.
00:22:00.108 --> 00:22:02.477
- that's amazing.
00:22:02.477 --> 00:22:03.678
That's amazing.
00:22:03.678 --> 00:22:05.747
- when it comes to inviting the lord
00:22:06.548 --> 00:22:07.983
Into the mess of our lives,
00:22:07.983 --> 00:22:09.885
I don't think there's an easy three step process.
00:22:09.885 --> 00:22:12.587
I think you have to fall into it.
00:22:12.587 --> 00:22:15.223
The easy three step process is the tidy way in.
00:22:15.223 --> 00:22:18.760
And what we're saying is he doesn't need that.
00:22:18.760 --> 00:22:21.430
He needs the honesty, he needs the raw truth.
00:22:21.430 --> 00:22:25.100
He already knows it.
00:22:25.100 --> 00:22:26.535
He already knows my heart and yours.
00:22:26.535 --> 00:22:28.737
So who am i kidding?
00:22:28.737 --> 00:22:30.439
Who am i trying to hide from?
00:22:30.439 --> 00:22:32.207
The way that we come, honestly before god is to just do it.
00:22:32.207 --> 00:22:37.078
To not overthink it, to not cover up,
00:22:37.078 --> 00:22:39.114
To not try to pause
00:22:39.114 --> 00:22:40.549
Or make it look better than it is,
00:22:40.549 --> 00:22:41.883
But to just lay it out in front of him.
00:22:41.883 --> 00:22:44.386
Trusting he is full of mercy.
00:22:44.386 --> 00:22:47.689
He is a patient god.
00:22:47.689 --> 00:22:49.191
And he's committed to us through it all.
00:22:49.191 --> 00:22:53.328
- one of my most desperate places in my life,
00:22:54.262 --> 00:22:57.098
I remember god saying,
00:22:57.098 --> 00:22:59.100
"it is never anything that you do for me."
00:22:59.100 --> 00:23:02.471
Because i was like, god, if you would just do this,
00:23:03.472 --> 00:23:06.441
I could be doing that, you know?
00:23:07.075 --> 00:23:10.078
And i actually said it out of my mouth
00:23:10.078 --> 00:23:14.382
And it was like i was slugged in the stomach
00:23:14.382 --> 00:23:16.518
With the most beautiful, two by four, loving, two by four.
00:23:16.518 --> 00:23:20.489
And i thought, that's the most arrogant thing
00:23:20.489 --> 00:23:22.624
I've ever heard in my life and i said it.
00:23:22.624 --> 00:23:27.529
I said it.
00:23:27.529 --> 00:23:29.064
Look at all that i could be doing for you if you would only,
00:23:29.064 --> 00:23:32.267
And god said, "it is never anything about what you do."
00:23:32.267 --> 00:23:37.506
- that's right.
00:23:37.873 --> 00:23:39.174
- it's what i can do on the inside of you.
00:23:39.174 --> 00:23:41.276
That's the change that god wants to make
00:23:41.276 --> 00:23:44.079
Where you automatically walk in the will of god,
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.482
When you're surrendered
00:23:47.482 --> 00:23:48.583
And i need to get you surrendered.
00:23:48.583 --> 00:23:50.585
And the bible says that in the hands of the potter,
00:23:50.585 --> 00:23:55.857
The clay was marred.
00:23:56.324 --> 00:23:57.726
- yeah, yeah.
00:23:57.726 --> 00:23:59.327
- in his hands, he was marred so that he can shape us
00:23:59.327 --> 00:24:03.465
And that he can make us the way he wants us to be.
00:24:03.465 --> 00:24:07.602
- i love that we are connecting pain with promise
00:24:07.602 --> 00:24:10.972
Because i think we try to fix pain to get promise.
00:24:10.972 --> 00:24:14.876
- that's right.
00:24:14.876 --> 00:24:16.278
- especially at christmas when you've gotten all
00:24:16.278 --> 00:24:17.812
The humble brags on social media and on your refrigerator
00:24:17.812 --> 00:24:21.116
And our child just graduated with a 7.0 from harvard
00:24:21.116 --> 00:24:25.453
And i'm like, we're hoping to pass history.
00:24:25.453 --> 00:24:28.356
- yeah. - and i.
00:24:28.356 --> 00:24:30.058
- i read this quote by bonhoeffer,
00:24:30.825 --> 00:24:32.160
But he said this, that i think really is...
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:35.297
Kind of where we're landing
00:24:35.297 --> 00:24:36.798
On today's conversation about the promise.
00:24:36.798 --> 00:24:39.067
He says, "the celebration of advent is possible
00:24:39.067 --> 00:24:42.237
Only to those who are troubled in soul.
00:24:42.237 --> 00:24:44.940
Who know themselves to be poor and imperfect.
00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:48.643
And look forward to something greater to come.
00:24:48.643 --> 00:24:52.080
- wow. that's beautiful.
00:24:52.080 --> 00:24:53.448
- which is really exactly what you're saying,
00:24:53.448 --> 00:24:54.616
Which is what you're saying about
00:24:54.616 --> 00:24:56.418
Being in the places where people are cognizant
00:24:56.418 --> 00:24:58.753
Of the fact they're suffering.
00:24:58.753 --> 00:25:00.255
They haven't covered it over with a christmas sweater.
00:25:00.255 --> 00:25:02.657
They're going i, a.
00:25:02.657 --> 00:25:04.960
And our a seems to accelerate his compassion.
00:25:05.894 --> 00:25:09.631
- isn't that amazing
00:25:10.098 --> 00:25:11.433
That the angels came to the boys on the hill?
00:25:11.433 --> 00:25:13.301
That almost blows me away.
00:25:13.301 --> 00:25:14.736
Shepherds were the most despised group in the community.
00:25:14.736 --> 00:25:17.806
I didn't realize until recently when i was with them.
00:25:17.806 --> 00:25:19.240
- not even allowed to vote?
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:20.508
- no! and if they walked through town,
00:25:20.508 --> 00:25:22.177
Vendors would throw things at them.
00:25:22.177 --> 00:25:24.112
I mean, they were looked on as nothing.
00:25:24.112 --> 00:25:26.548
And god showed up to them.
00:25:26.548 --> 00:25:28.183
- wow. - wow.
00:25:28.183 --> 00:25:29.351
- and i just think that's...
00:25:29.351 --> 00:25:31.086
So beautiful. - 'cause we've even
00:25:31.086 --> 00:25:31.920
Sanitized that!
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:33.188
When we talked about sanitizing, we put-
00:25:33.188 --> 00:25:34.522
We think of shepherds
00:25:34.522 --> 00:25:35.991
As little boys in their parents' bathrobes.
00:25:35.991 --> 00:25:38.259
And an advent and nativity play.
00:25:38.259 --> 00:25:39.794
- right? - and you're like,
00:25:39.794 --> 00:25:40.695
Mm hmm. - no.
00:25:40.695 --> 00:25:42.330
- first century shepherds in all of the jewish writings are,
00:25:42.330 --> 00:25:46.067
I mean, you might let one clean out your barn.
00:25:46.067 --> 00:25:49.004
You're not gonna let one inside.
00:25:49.004 --> 00:25:51.206
And in the sovereignty of god,
00:25:51.206 --> 00:25:53.208
He says, "i'll choose the messiest, the lowliest,
00:25:53.208 --> 00:25:56.111
The least of these."
00:25:56.111 --> 00:25:57.512
'cause, you know, we play up the wise men.
00:25:57.512 --> 00:25:59.914
They didn't come till two years later,
00:25:59.914 --> 00:26:01.549
And there weren't three. that's just the number of gifts.
00:26:01.549 --> 00:26:03.485
We don't know how many there were.
00:26:03.485 --> 00:26:05.220
I love that the first ones
00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:07.622
He showed himself to.
00:26:07.622 --> 00:26:08.923
- the shepherds.
00:26:08.923 --> 00:26:09.758
- were the messiest.
00:26:09.758 --> 00:26:10.959
- i know! - yeah.
00:26:10.959 --> 00:26:12.360
Nobody else would've given him the time of day.
00:26:12.360 --> 00:26:13.995
- it's like, he continues to do this.
00:26:13.995 --> 00:26:17.666
Where there's eyes to see.
00:26:17.666 --> 00:26:19.167
He goes in the most unexpected places over and over.
00:26:19.167 --> 00:26:22.270
And to me, it's like, it just so perfectly ties to
00:26:22.270 --> 00:26:25.907
The story of his life has demonstrated
00:26:25.907 --> 00:26:27.909
In, you know, a manger.
00:26:27.909 --> 00:26:30.045
And then the proclamation,
00:26:30.045 --> 00:26:31.880
The host of heaven shows up to these boys on a hill.
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.549
You're like, "that's where heaven turns up!"
00:26:34.549 --> 00:26:36.284
- dirty boys.
00:26:36.284 --> 00:26:37.519
Dirty boys, yeah. - dirty boys on a hill.
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:38.753
- the night shift, like of all shifts.
00:26:38.753 --> 00:26:40.121
You know? you're like, "what?"
00:26:40.121 --> 00:26:41.923
(overlapping chatter)
00:26:41.923 --> 00:26:42.757
Yes.
00:26:42.757 --> 00:26:44.159
But then it really does give a certain meaning to me
00:26:44.159 --> 00:26:47.829
When we get to these teachings,
00:26:47.829 --> 00:26:49.531
Matthew 5, the sermon on the mount.
00:26:49.531 --> 00:26:51.666
So who's this good news to? the poor in spirit.
00:26:51.666 --> 00:26:54.536
"blessed are the poor in spirit,
00:26:54.536 --> 00:26:56.304
Theirs is the kingdom of heaven." right?
00:26:56.304 --> 00:26:58.006
"to those who mourn, you'll be comforted.
00:26:58.006 --> 00:27:00.341
Blessed, happy are the meek,
00:27:00.341 --> 00:27:02.577
You get the earth.
00:27:02.577 --> 00:27:03.945
Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
00:27:03.945 --> 00:27:05.180
They'll be satisfied.
00:27:05.180 --> 00:27:06.381
If you're persecuted, good for you."
00:27:06.381 --> 00:27:08.750
And it's very clear who he's- - congratulations!
00:27:08.750 --> 00:27:11.119
- yeah! yeah! absolutely!
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.154
But the storyline here is very consistent.
00:27:13.154 --> 00:27:15.957
- very clear. - true.
00:27:15.957 --> 00:27:17.092
- where he shows up.
00:27:17.092 --> 00:27:18.059
- absolutely. even mary's song!
00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:19.561
- what gets his attention.
00:27:19.561 --> 00:27:20.528
- that's right. mary's song,
00:27:20.528 --> 00:27:21.529
Like he comes after the lowly.
00:27:21.529 --> 00:27:23.465
And the rich, he pays no mind.
00:27:23.465 --> 00:27:25.867
But the hungry, you know?
00:27:25.867 --> 00:27:26.935
The weak. and it's like,
00:27:26.935 --> 00:27:28.870
This is just such a different kingdom
00:27:28.870 --> 00:27:31.506
Than the one that i would imagine.
00:27:31.506 --> 00:27:33.007
The one i would (speaks unintelligibly)
00:27:33.007 --> 00:27:34.175
- the one that we're striving for.
00:27:34.175 --> 00:27:35.610
- absolutely. even the messiah, everybody expected.
00:27:35.610 --> 00:27:38.213
These, like, the different, you know,
00:27:38.213 --> 00:27:40.081
Jewish sects and what they were,
00:27:40.081 --> 00:27:41.683
The anticipation of what this messiah is
00:27:41.683 --> 00:27:43.752
Off of all these prophecies and everything.
00:27:43.752 --> 00:27:45.453
It's- he just came so...
00:27:45.453 --> 00:27:47.188
- different. - different.
00:27:47.188 --> 00:27:48.289
- different.
00:27:48.289 --> 00:27:49.824
- and i think for me, really the sobering thing is i'm like,
00:27:49.824 --> 00:27:51.192
"what is the unexpected manger that i could miss?"
00:27:51.192 --> 00:27:55.330
Because i see jesus as, "oh, he must be like this."
00:27:55.330 --> 00:27:58.233
Which in a lot of cases, i think he must just be like me.
00:27:58.233 --> 00:28:00.769
But it's like
00:28:00.769 --> 00:28:02.237
My expectation has me looking in this place for him
00:28:02.237 --> 00:28:05.907
When he really wants to be found in all these other places.
00:28:05.907 --> 00:28:09.144
And i think there's such an invitation there of...
00:28:09.144 --> 00:28:11.946
Where do i think, "oh, he wouldn't be found there."
00:28:11.946 --> 00:28:14.616
"surely, he would be here."
00:28:14.616 --> 00:28:16.417
We all have these assumptions in our mind
00:28:16.417 --> 00:28:19.888
Of where god is willing to go and where he wouldn't.
00:28:19.888 --> 00:28:22.791
The things he would anoint and the things he'd wanna forget.
00:28:22.791 --> 00:28:25.794
And it's very clear through jesus' life,
00:28:25.794 --> 00:28:27.695
The prophecy is all the way through.
00:28:27.695 --> 00:28:29.831
He goes different places than we think he would.
00:28:29.831 --> 00:28:33.802
And he blesses different things.
00:28:33.802 --> 00:28:36.104
- we have to remember that the people
00:28:36.905 --> 00:28:39.040
In the bible waited for 400 years.
00:28:39.040 --> 00:28:42.277
It's like the last word about any kind of a messiah coming.
00:28:42.277 --> 00:28:45.880
And people waited 400 years.
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:48.216
And you think, "how did they stay expectant
00:28:48.216 --> 00:28:50.785
For god to show up?"
00:28:50.785 --> 00:28:51.619
Because suddenly,
00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:53.688
There was a little baby born in a manger. (laughs)
00:28:53.688 --> 00:28:57.425
And suddenly the messiah had come.
00:28:57.425 --> 00:29:00.228
And were they ready for it?
00:29:00.228 --> 00:29:01.663
You know, they've rejected jesus.
00:29:01.663 --> 00:29:03.965
And you just kind of think
00:29:03.965 --> 00:29:05.433
What would've happened had they actually accepted him
00:29:05.433 --> 00:29:09.037
As the messiah?
00:29:09.037 --> 00:29:10.839
And so i think we need to be prepared.
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:13.041
Keep your heart of expectation open
00:29:13.041 --> 00:29:16.878
To what god has for you, because it's coming.
00:29:16.878 --> 00:29:20.415
It is coming and it's coming for you.
00:29:20.415 --> 00:29:23.117
- here's what blew me away.
00:29:23.718 --> 00:29:24.953
When we were in is israel the last time
00:29:24.953 --> 00:29:26.454
When we were on the place
00:29:26.454 --> 00:29:27.755
Where he delivered the sermon on the mount.
00:29:27.755 --> 00:29:29.457
When you read this like matthew 5,
00:29:29.457 --> 00:29:32.293
"you are the light of the world."
00:29:32.293 --> 00:29:33.895
Jesus is saying that to crowd of yahoos!
00:29:33.895 --> 00:29:36.297
It's not like he was in church delivering a sermon.
00:29:36.297 --> 00:29:38.800
- no, no, no.
00:29:38.800 --> 00:29:39.634
- saying, you know,
00:29:39.634 --> 00:29:41.035
"five of you who've been very faithful in the torah,"
00:29:41.035 --> 00:29:43.271
You know?
00:29:43.271 --> 00:29:44.572
- no. he was looking at the masses and saying,
00:29:44.572 --> 00:29:47.508
"come on."
00:29:47.508 --> 00:29:48.943
"you're the lighter though. that's why i'm here."
00:29:48.943 --> 00:29:50.845
- they were illiterate.
00:29:50.845 --> 00:29:52.213
They had nothing to offer or so they thought.
00:29:52.213 --> 00:29:54.415
- but i think a great challenge outside of our doors.
00:29:54.415 --> 00:29:57.619
- yes, that's right.
00:29:57.619 --> 00:29:58.720
- and call people to who jesus is!
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:00.622
- [person] and call 'em.
00:30:00.622 --> 00:30:02.023
- he saw in them the imago dei, the image of god.
00:30:02.023 --> 00:30:03.892
- [person] yes.
00:30:03.892 --> 00:30:05.159
- i'd never heard it through their ears,
00:30:05.159 --> 00:30:06.394
But when you hear it through-
00:30:06.394 --> 00:30:07.662
'cause they were told they were nothing!
00:30:07.662 --> 00:30:08.796
They were worth anything!
00:30:08.796 --> 00:30:10.465
I mean, they weren't in religious circles.
00:30:10.465 --> 00:30:12.333
They had no value whatsoever.
00:30:12.333 --> 00:30:14.402
Until the son of god himself stood up and said,
00:30:14.402 --> 00:30:17.605
"you know what? you're the light of the world."
00:30:17.605 --> 00:30:19.941
You know? - [person 1] wow.
00:30:19.941 --> 00:30:22.110
That's good.
00:30:22.110 --> 00:30:23.211
- he went through the trash heap.
00:30:23.211 --> 00:30:24.112
- [person 2] yeah, he did.
00:30:24.112 --> 00:30:24.913
- and he found him.
00:30:24.913 --> 00:30:26.014
He said, "that's gold." - always.
00:30:26.014 --> 00:30:27.181
- and that's a diamond.
00:30:27.181 --> 00:30:28.483
And then, "if you don't have eyes to see,"
00:30:28.483 --> 00:30:30.385
You know, it's-
00:30:30.385 --> 00:30:31.185
He says it over.
00:30:31.185 --> 00:30:32.320
"and those who have eyes to see."
00:30:32.320 --> 00:30:33.554
And all over it, "do you not perceive?"
00:30:33.554 --> 00:30:35.223
We need eyes to see things the way that he does.
00:30:35.223 --> 00:30:38.192
'cause so clearly, this is upside down.
00:30:38.192 --> 00:30:40.061
So clearly.
00:30:40.061 --> 00:30:41.863
- totally upside down.
00:30:41.863 --> 00:30:43.064
- the way that we evaluate naturally
00:30:43.064 --> 00:30:44.499
Is not the way that the kingdom kingdom of god
00:30:44.499 --> 00:30:47.235
See these things.
00:30:47.235 --> 00:30:48.069
Yes. yes.
00:30:48.069 --> 00:30:48.903
- and i just think...
00:30:48.903 --> 00:30:50.571
We have to...
00:30:50.571 --> 00:30:51.940
During this season and every season,
00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:54.609
Our goal is to be like jesus.
00:30:54.609 --> 00:30:56.344
- yeah. - right.
00:30:56.344 --> 00:30:57.512
- you know?
00:30:57.512 --> 00:30:58.346
Is to be like him.
00:30:58.346 --> 00:31:00.014
And...
00:31:00.014 --> 00:31:01.482
And if we're gonna be like him, i think we have to...
00:31:01.482 --> 00:31:04.052
Start looking for him in the right places.
00:31:04.052 --> 00:31:07.221
- right. - you know?
00:31:07.221 --> 00:31:08.489
- right. - lord, show me today.
00:31:08.489 --> 00:31:10.758
- how i can-
00:31:10.758 --> 00:31:12.160
That one person today. you know what i'm saying?
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:14.562
Who's hurting?
00:31:14.562 --> 00:31:15.797
- [person 1] yes. - [person 2] right.
00:31:15.797 --> 00:31:17.332
- where can i bless somebody? they can't bless me back.
00:31:17.332 --> 00:31:19.534
- [person 1] yes.
00:31:19.534 --> 00:31:20.868
- [person 2] right. right? - [person 1] yeah.
00:31:20.868 --> 00:31:21.869
- you know? - that's it.
00:31:21.869 --> 00:31:23.037
- who has the world pushed aside?
00:31:23.037 --> 00:31:25.373
You know, because that's where you're gonna find him.
00:31:25.373 --> 00:31:27.475
You're gonna find him in the mess.
00:31:27.475 --> 00:31:28.710
You're gonna find him with the broken.
00:31:28.710 --> 00:31:30.111
You're gonna find him with those who are hurting.
00:31:30.111 --> 00:31:31.779
And i think a lot of times we're missing out on...
00:31:31.779 --> 00:31:34.716
On running into him.
00:31:34.716 --> 00:31:36.851
And receiving things that he wants to give us.
00:31:36.851 --> 00:31:39.887
Because we're not going into those messy places.
00:31:39.887 --> 00:31:42.924
- that's right.
00:31:42.924 --> 00:31:43.758
- wow. - yes.
00:31:43.758 --> 00:31:44.592
- messy situation.
00:31:44.592 --> 00:31:45.994
- my parents divorced when i was really little.
00:31:45.994 --> 00:31:46.928
And my dad was a mess of a man.
00:31:46.928 --> 00:31:49.497
Married and divorced three times.
00:31:49.497 --> 00:31:51.099
Just...
00:31:51.099 --> 00:31:52.066
Just a very colorful man.
00:31:52.066 --> 00:31:54.435
Didn't talk much, i got all of his words.
00:31:54.435 --> 00:31:56.804
But when he repented late in his life,
00:31:56.804 --> 00:31:59.941
My dad was just a really, really-
00:32:00.675 --> 00:32:01.943
He was a messy guy with a lot of regrets,
00:32:01.943 --> 00:32:04.645
But so much gratitude that god had redeemed his story.
00:32:04.645 --> 00:32:08.616
And he,
00:32:08.616 --> 00:32:10.318
Every single christmas eve and christmas day,
00:32:10.318 --> 00:32:13.221
He ruined my gifts.
00:32:13.221 --> 00:32:15.757
Because my dad,
00:32:15.757 --> 00:32:17.925
I think he felt the most comfortable,
00:32:17.925 --> 00:32:19.827
Actually around the least of these beast.
00:32:19.827 --> 00:32:21.929
He still carried some shame.
00:32:21.929 --> 00:32:23.531
But we always spent it in the homeless shelters.
00:32:23.531 --> 00:32:26.034
One of his best friends ran a big homeless shelter
00:32:26.034 --> 00:32:28.069
In orlando, florida.
00:32:28.069 --> 00:32:29.337
Grew up in central florida.
00:32:29.337 --> 00:32:30.571
So christmas day, i always knew
00:32:30.571 --> 00:32:32.573
I couldn't really glory in any gifts i'd gotten.
00:32:32.573 --> 00:32:35.543
'cause daddy and i were going to the homeless shelter.
00:32:35.543 --> 00:32:37.912
But it began just this pattern in my life of not-
00:32:37.912 --> 00:32:43.251
And i don't mean to sound like i'm not materialistic.
00:32:44.352 --> 00:32:45.453
I love nice shoes and nice purses.
00:32:45.453 --> 00:32:47.688
And i'm not one who gives missy like
00:32:47.688 --> 00:32:49.791
Toilet paper for christmas.
00:32:49.791 --> 00:32:51.325
I mean, i-
00:32:51.325 --> 00:32:52.994
So i don't mean to sound like a, you know,
00:32:52.994 --> 00:32:54.762
A scrooge.
00:32:54.762 --> 00:32:56.130
But it just put everything in perspective.
00:32:56.130 --> 00:33:00.001
- amazing.
00:33:00.001 --> 00:33:01.402
- and sometimes as a teenager i'd be like, "ugh!"
00:33:01.402 --> 00:33:03.871
And then by the time even i'd been there an hour,
00:33:04.872 --> 00:33:07.275
I'd be like, "thank you jesus. thank you jesus."
00:33:07.275 --> 00:33:09.777
- i know, i know.
00:33:09.777 --> 00:33:10.878
- and it just, my father gave me,
00:33:10.878 --> 00:33:14.115
He didn't have much materially,
00:33:14.115 --> 00:33:16.517
But he gave me a perspective at christmas
00:33:16.517 --> 00:33:20.922
To go to the places where i think if jesus
00:33:20.922 --> 00:33:24.826
Were incarnate again this christmas,
00:33:24.826 --> 00:33:28.429
Well, he'd be everywhere.
00:33:28.429 --> 00:33:30.231
He'd find broken, lost, sad people everywhere.
00:33:30.231 --> 00:33:33.034
But i think he'd be places we wouldn't expect.
00:33:33.034 --> 00:33:35.837
And so i love,
00:33:35.837 --> 00:33:37.171
I love being with lonely people at christmas
00:33:37.171 --> 00:33:40.074
And come to the island of the misfit toys,
00:33:40.074 --> 00:33:42.743
Because i think a whole lot of people think
00:33:42.743 --> 00:33:44.812
Christmas is about pretending
00:33:44.812 --> 00:33:46.280
Like they have it all together.
00:33:46.280 --> 00:33:47.682
- right. yes.
00:33:47.682 --> 00:33:49.183
- and i'm like, "no, it's a safe time to say i don't."
00:33:49.183 --> 00:33:51.018
Let me tell you he loves me unconditionally
00:33:51.018 --> 00:33:53.754
Even with all my mess.
00:33:53.754 --> 00:33:55.656
- oh man. i think christmas time definitely highlights
00:33:56.757 --> 00:33:59.760
How much god wants a personal relationship with us.
00:33:59.760 --> 00:34:02.530
I mean, think about it.
00:34:02.530 --> 00:34:03.898
We're celebrating the birth of jesus.
00:34:03.898 --> 00:34:06.834
Jesus becoming a man of flesh,
00:34:06.834 --> 00:34:09.203
Coming all the way from heaven to earth
00:34:09.203 --> 00:34:11.706
So that god could be with us.
00:34:11.706 --> 00:34:13.407
Oh, man. that means he really, really loves us.
00:34:13.407 --> 00:34:16.110
And so i think this season,
00:34:16.110 --> 00:34:18.079
More than any other season,
00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:21.449
Allows us to see that we are loved.
00:34:21.449 --> 00:34:25.887
- [presenter] be the first to know
00:34:26.621 --> 00:34:27.889
All the latest "better together" updates.
00:34:27.889 --> 00:34:30.424
Visit bettertogether.tv to sign up for our weekly emails.
00:34:30.424 --> 00:34:34.162
And never miss the latest news.
00:34:34.162 --> 00:34:38.000
And never miss the latest news.
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:38.467
(christmas music)
00:34:38.901 --> 00:34:44.439
- one of the greatest titles,
00:34:45.073 --> 00:34:46.375
The greatest names that jesus has given,
00:34:46.375 --> 00:34:48.343
Is found in the book of isaiah.
00:34:48.343 --> 00:34:50.078
And it's immanuel, which means "god with us".
00:34:50.078 --> 00:34:55.384
I pray that this christmas season,
00:34:56.118 --> 00:34:57.553
You'll have some moments where away from all the noise
00:34:57.553 --> 00:34:59.588
And the hubbub that you would remember that that is
00:34:59.588 --> 00:35:02.291
What christmas is all about.
00:35:02.291 --> 00:35:04.059
There's something about realizing,
00:35:04.059 --> 00:35:05.761
"no, the whole point is,
00:35:05.761 --> 00:35:07.496
Jesus endured incredible aloneness
00:35:07.496 --> 00:35:10.799
On the cross so that you and i are never, ever alone again."
00:35:10.799 --> 00:35:16.038
God is with us.
00:35:16.405 --> 00:35:19.341
(christmas music)
00:35:19.775 --> 00:35:24.246
- one of my favorite christmas memories.
00:35:25.113 --> 00:35:26.915
When i was, when i first came to america,
00:35:26.915 --> 00:35:28.617
I came as a contemporary musician.
00:35:28.617 --> 00:35:31.153
And it was great. and things were going well.
00:35:31.153 --> 00:35:33.922
And then we had this new tour manager.
00:35:33.922 --> 00:35:36.992
The minute we got off the plane from london,
00:35:36.992 --> 00:35:38.961
And i saw the laminated passes, i'm thinking,
00:35:38.961 --> 00:35:41.597
"wonder how much those cost?"
00:35:41.597 --> 00:35:43.365
And we'd- so we do the tour,
00:35:43.365 --> 00:35:45.200
And it's an incredibly successful tour.
00:35:45.200 --> 00:35:47.636
And at the end, he ran away with all the money.
00:35:47.636 --> 00:35:50.339
(all gasping)
00:35:50.339 --> 00:35:51.173
- [person] no.
00:35:51.173 --> 00:35:52.274
- and all my band were sweet guys
00:35:52.274 --> 00:35:53.609
From britain who were married, who had kids.
00:35:53.609 --> 00:35:55.877
- wow.
00:35:55.877 --> 00:35:57.179
- whose families were sacrificing to come.
00:35:57.179 --> 00:35:58.747
And...
00:35:58.747 --> 00:35:59.982
I remember calling him and saying,
00:35:59.982 --> 00:36:01.717
You know, you can't do this!
00:36:01.717 --> 00:36:03.852
You don't believe when he said,
00:36:03.852 --> 00:36:05.254
"sue me! i'll file for bankruptcy
00:36:05.254 --> 00:36:07.155
And i'll start up again tomorrow under a new name!"
00:36:07.155 --> 00:36:09.691
Which he actually did do.
00:36:09.691 --> 00:36:11.493
And i'm like, "okay, lord, what on earth do i do?"
00:36:11.493 --> 00:36:14.696
So i was living in london.
00:36:14.696 --> 00:36:16.131
So i sold my house and i paid all my band.
00:36:16.131 --> 00:36:18.734
Paid the lighting guys, paid the sound guys.
00:36:18.734 --> 00:36:20.402
And moved in with my pastor and his wife for two years.
00:36:20.402 --> 00:36:23.105
And their three children.
00:36:23.105 --> 00:36:24.373
And my first christmas there,
00:36:24.373 --> 00:36:26.441
- [person] goodness! - was so incredible.
00:36:26.441 --> 00:36:28.043
'cause i had very, i had very little cash to do anything.
00:36:28.043 --> 00:36:31.647
But we'd got this huge big turkey
00:36:31.647 --> 00:36:33.448
Because it was gonna be like eight of us.
00:36:33.448 --> 00:36:35.450
And we decided we'd cook most of it on christmas eve.
00:36:35.450 --> 00:36:38.120
So we just had a little to do on christmas morning.
00:36:38.120 --> 00:36:40.722
And i remember we came down on christmas morning.
00:36:40.722 --> 00:36:43.225
And tilly, the dog
00:36:43.225 --> 00:36:44.693
That we'd adopted from the (unintelligible) shelter,
00:36:44.693 --> 00:36:47.329
Had pulled the turkey off the table.
00:36:47.329 --> 00:36:49.097
- oh no!
00:36:49.097 --> 00:36:50.198
- she had eaten the entire turkey
00:36:50.198 --> 00:36:51.733
And then brought the entire turkey back up again.
00:36:51.733 --> 00:36:54.403
(all exclaiming)
00:36:54.403 --> 00:36:55.237
- it was...
00:36:55.237 --> 00:36:56.471
And i remember...
00:36:56.471 --> 00:36:57.973
The mess and the confusion.
00:36:57.973 --> 00:36:59.441
- this was like a deacons of a christmas.
00:36:59.441 --> 00:37:01.043
- yeah, yeah.
00:37:01.043 --> 00:37:01.877
- but you know what?
00:37:01.877 --> 00:37:03.245
Sitting there in a place with people who had said,
00:37:03.245 --> 00:37:06.948
"there is room in the inn."
00:37:06.948 --> 00:37:08.750
- yes. yes.
00:37:08.750 --> 00:37:09.584
- come on, come on in.
00:37:09.584 --> 00:37:10.585
- that's it.
00:37:10.585 --> 00:37:11.687
- you know, i know you don't have-
00:37:11.687 --> 00:37:12.487
I know that's all gone.
00:37:12.487 --> 00:37:13.388
But come on, there's room.
00:37:13.388 --> 00:37:14.823
- right.
00:37:14.823 --> 00:37:15.957
- and we sat and we, we had pizza.
00:37:15.957 --> 00:37:17.592
- [person] and it was perfect.
00:37:17.592 --> 00:37:18.593
- and we sat around together.
00:37:18.593 --> 00:37:19.795
- that was perfect.
00:37:19.795 --> 00:37:20.629
- and we thanked jesus.
00:37:20.629 --> 00:37:21.763
That in a world that doesn't work,
00:37:21.763 --> 00:37:24.166
He stepped in.
00:37:24.166 --> 00:37:25.067
- yeah, that's right.
00:37:25.067 --> 00:37:26.501
- so good. - that's right.
00:37:26.501 --> 00:37:27.869
- and do you know what the interesting thing?
00:37:27.869 --> 00:37:29.271
- yes?
00:37:29.271 --> 00:37:30.205
- this is an interesting thing.
00:37:30.205 --> 00:37:31.473
- do you remember estes park when we used to go
00:37:31.473 --> 00:37:32.908
And do the christian artist seminar?
00:37:32.908 --> 00:37:34.876
- yeah! - right!
00:37:34.876 --> 00:37:36.278
- so maybe, i don't know, maybe 10 years later,
00:37:36.278 --> 00:37:37.879
I...
00:37:37.879 --> 00:37:39.147
I'm walking, 'cause i'm teaching a class there.
00:37:39.147 --> 00:37:40.415
And i see him coming across the field.
00:37:40.415 --> 00:37:42.384
And i'm thinking, "wow!"
00:37:42.384 --> 00:37:44.252
- oh!
00:37:44.252 --> 00:37:45.220
- and he sees me and he turns-
00:37:45.220 --> 00:37:47.556
- breaks out into hives!
00:37:47.556 --> 00:37:49.091
- he turns and he goes the other way.
00:37:49.925 --> 00:37:51.593
And i fell to my knees and i thought i had forgiven him.
00:37:51.593 --> 00:37:55.897
And jesus said to me,
00:37:56.398 --> 00:37:57.632
"you know, sheila, here's what you did.
00:37:57.632 --> 00:37:59.534
You gave me your house, but you didn't give me him.
00:37:59.534 --> 00:38:03.672
You didn't forgive him.
00:38:03.672 --> 00:38:05.374
You didn't give me your heart."
00:38:05.374 --> 00:38:07.175
And i actually have it in my purse.
00:38:07.175 --> 00:38:08.944
I realized i was kneeling a little stone.
00:38:08.944 --> 00:38:11.747
I picked it up and i carried it with me.
00:38:11.747 --> 00:38:13.081
I have it to this day.
00:38:13.081 --> 00:38:14.316
- that's awesome, sheila.
00:38:14.316 --> 00:38:15.784
- "let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
00:38:15.784 --> 00:38:18.653
Who knows what was going on in his life?
00:38:18.653 --> 00:38:20.288
- yeah, yeah.
00:38:20.288 --> 00:38:21.423
Who knows. - [sheila] who knows?
00:38:21.423 --> 00:38:22.657
How god will deal with him mercifully
00:38:22.657 --> 00:38:23.658
As god has dealt with me.
00:38:23.658 --> 00:38:24.926
- [person] mercifully. - mercifully.
00:38:24.926 --> 00:38:25.794
- [person] that's right.
00:38:25.794 --> 00:38:27.129
- but it's to your thing of mess, cece.
00:38:27.129 --> 00:38:29.297
It's all the messy places where things have not worked.
00:38:29.297 --> 00:38:32.300
And they didn't go the way i thought.
00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:33.502
- none of us wanna go through it!
00:38:33.502 --> 00:38:34.669
- but christ shows up!
00:38:34.669 --> 00:38:36.738
- you know? - he shows up!
00:38:37.372 --> 00:38:38.473
- and teaches the greatest lessons
00:38:38.473 --> 00:38:40.041
And makes you love him more, which is what it's all about.
00:38:40.041 --> 00:38:42.944
- there is this hand in hand reality of...
00:38:43.845 --> 00:38:46.681
When i understand how much i have been forgiven by god,
00:38:46.681 --> 00:38:50.919
The demand is that i would turn and forgive
00:38:50.919 --> 00:38:54.322
Those who have wronged me.
00:38:54.322 --> 00:38:55.791
It's in the lord's prayer. we see it all throughout.
00:38:55.791 --> 00:38:58.427
And the thing is, with forgiveness,
00:38:58.427 --> 00:39:01.730
I hold myself in bondage when i withhold forgiveness.
00:39:01.730 --> 00:39:05.033
And god wants us free.
00:39:05.033 --> 00:39:06.835
So the way that he's forgiven me,
00:39:06.835 --> 00:39:09.337
The way i can be my fullest, healthiest, freest self
00:39:09.337 --> 00:39:13.775
Is to let go of the others who have wronged me
00:39:13.775 --> 00:39:16.645
In the way that he's forgiven me.
00:39:16.645 --> 00:39:18.980
- the other day, i was encountered
00:39:19.714 --> 00:39:22.984
With a new thing of a new feeling.
00:39:22.984 --> 00:39:26.688
And it's like,
00:39:26.688 --> 00:39:27.989
We call it fruit inspection.
00:39:27.989 --> 00:39:30.125
(all laughing)
00:39:30.125 --> 00:39:31.326
- where's your fruit now?
00:39:31.326 --> 00:39:32.727
- and you don't expect (speaking unintelligibly)
00:39:32.727 --> 00:39:34.396
I think surely i will not have anymore
00:39:34.396 --> 00:39:36.832
(person speaking unintelligibly)
00:39:36.832 --> 00:39:38.066
- and it had to do with something about
00:39:38.066 --> 00:39:39.201
Someone trying to get to my kid.
00:39:39.201 --> 00:39:41.136
It took me a couple days just to kind of catch my breath.
00:39:41.136 --> 00:39:44.473
'cause i have an adult son
00:39:44.473 --> 00:39:46.308
Who can make his own choices.
00:39:46.308 --> 00:39:48.176
But it's like,
00:39:48.176 --> 00:39:49.778
"you have hurt me so bad, you will never be around my kid."
00:39:49.778 --> 00:39:54.316
- right. - [person] you know?
00:39:54.950 --> 00:39:55.884
And it's like every day we grow,
00:39:55.884 --> 00:39:57.385
We're supposed to be growing every day.
00:39:57.385 --> 00:39:59.488
- that's right.
00:39:59.488 --> 00:40:00.589
- but every day there's something
00:40:00.589 --> 00:40:02.290
That god just wants to check.
00:40:02.290 --> 00:40:04.793
God just wants to get out of your life.
00:40:04.793 --> 00:40:07.062
"go, god. you know what?
00:40:07.062 --> 00:40:08.964
Everything's in your hands."
00:40:08.964 --> 00:40:10.398
- that's right.
00:40:10.398 --> 00:40:11.233
- "i forgive again."
00:40:11.233 --> 00:40:12.601
You know?
00:40:12.601 --> 00:40:14.135
"if there's any unforgiveness in my heart, this is new,
00:40:14.135 --> 00:40:16.972
This is a different feeling.
00:40:16.972 --> 00:40:19.841
Take it.
00:40:19.841 --> 00:40:21.142
I give it to you. i hand it over to you."
00:40:21.142 --> 00:40:23.111
- i don't know if this is connecting any dots for y'all.
00:40:23.111 --> 00:40:25.847
But you know, you started us out talking about messes.
00:40:25.847 --> 00:40:28.984
And then we talked about the...
00:40:28.984 --> 00:40:31.286
The shepherds being the messiest in their culture,
00:40:31.286 --> 00:40:34.422
But also as having a reputation for petty thievery.
00:40:34.422 --> 00:40:37.392
And you talked about this person who'd wounded you.
00:40:37.392 --> 00:40:39.528
I thought,
00:40:39.528 --> 00:40:41.062
"i wonder what the people around the shepherds thought."
00:40:41.062 --> 00:40:44.065
They're like, "well, he just stole from my garage!"
00:40:44.065 --> 00:40:46.735
(all laughing)
00:40:46.735 --> 00:40:48.336
You know, they might have had to lay down some unforgiveness
00:40:48.336 --> 00:40:51.206
Over the mess that shepherds had caused.
00:40:51.206 --> 00:40:54.342
They weren't just messy people.
00:40:54.342 --> 00:40:55.644
They left a trail of mess behind them.
00:40:55.644 --> 00:40:58.580
And man, isn't christmas a great time to go?
00:40:58.580 --> 00:41:01.550
What you just said really spoke to me.
00:41:01.550 --> 00:41:03.084
- so good.
00:41:03.084 --> 00:41:04.319
- "you have forgiven so much from me."
00:41:04.319 --> 00:41:07.756
"let me pick up this rock.
00:41:07.756 --> 00:41:09.624
I remember he has dealt with me mercifully."
00:41:09.624 --> 00:41:12.260
Boy, what a good kind of almost a pact
00:41:12.260 --> 00:41:14.729
For us to go,
00:41:14.729 --> 00:41:16.097
Who has left a mess in our lives
00:41:16.097 --> 00:41:17.866
That we haven't yet forgiven?
00:41:17.866 --> 00:41:19.134
- ooh! - wow.
00:41:19.134 --> 00:41:20.035
- at christmas. - wow.
00:41:20.035 --> 00:41:21.269
- ooh!
00:41:21.269 --> 00:41:22.270
- to settle that before the lord.
00:41:22.270 --> 00:41:23.772
And it's like,
00:41:23.772 --> 00:41:25.307
That, you know, he so love the world that he sent his son
00:41:25.307 --> 00:41:28.143
To save the world and not condemn it.
00:41:28.143 --> 00:41:29.744
- not to condemn it.
00:41:29.744 --> 00:41:30.679
- so certainly when he comes in
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:31.980
To these places of like,
00:41:31.980 --> 00:41:33.281
"oh, i didn't know i was holding onto that.
00:41:33.281 --> 00:41:34.883
That feels really gross."
00:41:34.883 --> 00:41:36.418
And oh, instead of the push away, you're coming to save me.
00:41:36.418 --> 00:41:39.387
You're coming into areas of unforgiveness
00:41:39.387 --> 00:41:41.556
I didn't know why i was carrying to save me from it.
00:41:41.556 --> 00:41:44.059
You're coming into these places of tension,
00:41:44.059 --> 00:41:47.495
Of pain, of wounded-ness that hasn't been healed yet.
00:41:47.495 --> 00:41:50.599
He doesn't ever do it to condemn.
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:52.567
He goes right into save it.
00:41:52.567 --> 00:41:54.803
And so the, even when conviction comes.
00:41:54.803 --> 00:41:57.405
You know it's from the lord because there's a graciousness,
00:41:57.405 --> 00:42:00.275
There's a kindness - that's right. yeah.
00:42:00.275 --> 00:42:01.710
- where he, you know?
00:42:01.710 --> 00:42:03.011
He comes to heal the sick.
00:42:03.011 --> 00:42:05.046
So it's like he's not showing up to go,
00:42:05.046 --> 00:42:06.848
"oh, look at- oh no.
00:42:06.848 --> 00:42:08.216
Oh no!
00:42:08.216 --> 00:42:09.484
Look at this! what he got on her hands?"
00:42:09.484 --> 00:42:11.152
He comes in to save! you know?
00:42:11.152 --> 00:42:12.887
And i just think
00:42:12.887 --> 00:42:14.222
Even if now the lord's highlighting anything,
00:42:14.222 --> 00:42:16.124
He's coming in to save!
00:42:16.124 --> 00:42:17.492
- not to condemn. - it's not to condemn!
00:42:17.492 --> 00:42:19.661
- that's right.
00:42:19.661 --> 00:42:20.962
- he doesn't come into the mess to, "oh no!
00:42:20.962 --> 00:42:22.130
I'm taking all the notes!"
00:42:22.130 --> 00:42:23.865
It is kind of like, "are you gonna trust me with that too?"
00:42:25.033 --> 00:42:26.501
- right. - right.
00:42:26.501 --> 00:42:27.469
- you know, something to give.
00:42:27.469 --> 00:42:28.803
You know?
00:42:28.803 --> 00:42:30.071
It's trusting in god that god is for me,
00:42:30.071 --> 00:42:32.974
God's not against me, god wants me, god wants to save me!
00:42:32.974 --> 00:42:36.211
God want, you know-
00:42:36.211 --> 00:42:37.379
God wants the good for me.
00:42:37.379 --> 00:42:39.147
And it's like, "are you gonna trust me with that too?"
00:42:39.147 --> 00:42:41.783
"this is new for you. you're gonna trust me." you know?
00:42:41.783 --> 00:42:44.586
Yes. (chuckles)
00:42:44.586 --> 00:42:45.420
- yeah, that's good.
00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:46.388
- i don't want to, but yes.
00:42:46.388 --> 00:42:48.056
- that's good. yeah.
00:42:48.056 --> 00:42:49.824
- understanding one basic, very basic truth
00:42:49.824 --> 00:42:53.662
Is god is for us.
00:42:53.662 --> 00:42:56.998
He's not against us.
00:42:56.998 --> 00:42:58.600
So unless we grow up with this belief that,
00:42:58.600 --> 00:43:00.568
That god's out to get us.
00:43:00.568 --> 00:43:02.604
And he loves us more on the days when we're good
00:43:02.604 --> 00:43:04.806
And the days when we feel we're messed up,
00:43:04.806 --> 00:43:06.474
He doesn't love us as much.
00:43:06.474 --> 00:43:08.176
That is not what scripture tells us.
00:43:08.176 --> 00:43:10.111
You know, there is no condemnation.
00:43:10.111 --> 00:43:12.347
Remember romans chapter 8 verse 1, it says,
00:43:12.347 --> 00:43:14.349
"there is no therefore."
00:43:14.349 --> 00:43:16.151
And the therefore implies something came before it.
00:43:16.151 --> 00:43:18.586
And what came before it was jesus.
00:43:18.586 --> 00:43:20.355
It said, "because of jesus,
00:43:20.355 --> 00:43:22.390
There is no condemnation to those who are in christ jesus."
00:43:22.390 --> 00:43:26.561
God is for you,
00:43:26.561 --> 00:43:28.396
God is with you,
00:43:28.396 --> 00:43:29.764
God loves you.
00:43:29.764 --> 00:43:31.099
- we're talking about him showing up,
00:43:31.900 --> 00:43:33.702
You know, in the messes.
00:43:33.702 --> 00:43:35.937
And when lori was talking about how something new came up,
00:43:35.937 --> 00:43:39.808
You know?
00:43:39.808 --> 00:43:41.242
It's amazing when you really begin to see yourself.
00:43:41.242 --> 00:43:43.311
- i know. - it's true.
00:43:43.311 --> 00:43:44.546
- and you realize you're the biggest mess.
00:43:44.546 --> 00:43:46.047
- yeah. (laughs)
00:43:46.047 --> 00:43:47.649
- and if he can- - thanks!
00:43:47.649 --> 00:43:49.017
(all laughing)
00:43:49.017 --> 00:43:50.185
Thanks for pointing that part out.
00:43:50.185 --> 00:43:52.087
- you know, because you feel like you're there
00:43:52.087 --> 00:43:53.621
And then he'll show you something else.
00:43:53.621 --> 00:43:55.356
- completely!
00:43:55.356 --> 00:43:56.658
- he'll allow you to be tested in another.
00:43:56.658 --> 00:43:58.126
(overlapping chatter)
00:43:58.126 --> 00:43:59.961
It's becoming like him!
00:43:59.961 --> 00:44:01.029
And you're like...
00:44:01.029 --> 00:44:01.963
And i might not say a thing,
00:44:01.963 --> 00:44:04.199
But that holy spirit is saying, "no, no, no.
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:05.934
That thought is not like-"
00:44:05.934 --> 00:44:07.569
- totally.
00:44:07.569 --> 00:44:08.837
- you know, and it's like, "lord, thank you."
00:44:08.837 --> 00:44:10.672
- [person] no, i know.
00:44:10.672 --> 00:44:12.040
- it's your kindness that leads us to repentance.
00:44:12.040 --> 00:44:13.541
- his kindness!
00:44:13.541 --> 00:44:14.375
His kindness!
00:44:14.375 --> 00:44:15.877
- and when he does come in, i just feel that so strong
00:44:15.877 --> 00:44:17.846
Where it's like, i think we can naturally resist.
00:44:17.846 --> 00:44:20.148
"oh, i don't want-"
00:44:20.148 --> 00:44:21.483
We have this picture of this angry god.
00:44:21.483 --> 00:44:23.518
This god who's disappointed, one who's gonna, you know?
00:44:23.518 --> 00:44:25.487
- no. it's his kindness.
00:44:25.487 --> 00:44:26.421
- swipe or get up and angry.
00:44:26.421 --> 00:44:28.556
And it's just not who we see in this baby in a manger.
00:44:28.556 --> 00:44:32.026
I just feel so moved by the reality
00:44:32.026 --> 00:44:35.029
Of he could have come and said all this stuff,
00:44:35.029 --> 00:44:37.031
But he demonstrated it with his life.
00:44:37.031 --> 00:44:38.933
He went, i mean, down to like the place
00:44:38.933 --> 00:44:41.836
That little newborn body was laid to send us a story,
00:44:41.836 --> 00:44:45.240
A message
00:44:45.240 --> 00:44:46.708
About these things in our life that get so personal.
00:44:46.708 --> 00:44:49.477
And i wanna hide.
00:44:49.477 --> 00:44:51.813
I want that fig leaf again from the father.
00:44:51.813 --> 00:44:54.182
And this baby jesus came to demonstrate he's different.
00:44:54.182 --> 00:44:58.253
He's different than we think.
00:44:58.253 --> 00:44:59.954
And i'm gonna show you by stepping into it
00:44:59.954 --> 00:45:02.991
And demonstrating it.
00:45:02.991 --> 00:45:04.058
And i'm so grateful.
00:45:04.058 --> 00:45:05.693
The lengths that he went to show us the father.
00:45:05.693 --> 00:45:08.062
I'm so thankful. the lengths he went
00:45:08.062 --> 00:45:09.864
To validate and to say, "hey, callie,
00:45:09.864 --> 00:45:11.699
In the midst of the pain.
00:45:11.699 --> 00:45:13.501
And when you can't pull it together, even if you wanted to,
00:45:13.501 --> 00:45:16.738
That's fine by me.
00:45:16.738 --> 00:45:18.106
That's why i came. that's what i'm here for.
00:45:18.106 --> 00:45:20.074
I came to save you not to condemn,
00:45:20.074 --> 00:45:23.011
Not to send any other message other than i love you.
00:45:23.011 --> 00:45:27.015
Let me come and cover you. let me make it new."
00:45:27.015 --> 00:45:31.119
- jesus has so many names.
00:45:31.686 --> 00:45:33.154
I love the names of jesus.
00:45:33.154 --> 00:45:34.455
Sometimes i'll pray and i'll just try to say
00:45:34.455 --> 00:45:36.758
All the names of jesus at the beginning of my prayer.
00:45:36.758 --> 00:45:38.960
And the prayer used to last about 15 minutes.
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:41.329
But yeah, the two christmas names you see a lot for jesus,
00:45:41.329 --> 00:45:44.465
Messiah.
00:45:44.465 --> 00:45:45.667
That means the anointed one, the christ,
00:45:45.667 --> 00:45:47.735
The one who came to save.
00:45:47.735 --> 00:45:49.304
Immanuel is god with us.
00:45:49.304 --> 00:45:53.141
You can't separate those.
00:45:53.141 --> 00:45:55.143
I mean, that's kinda like an m&m.
00:45:55.143 --> 00:45:56.644
You don't want the hard candy shell
00:45:56.644 --> 00:45:58.413
Without the peanut in the middle.
00:45:58.413 --> 00:46:00.548
Those- that's just the perfect hypostatic union
00:46:00.548 --> 00:46:04.485
Of jesus christ.
00:46:04.485 --> 00:46:05.587
He is perfectly transcendent.
00:46:05.587 --> 00:46:08.356
He's not our co-pilot, he's not our homeboy.
00:46:08.356 --> 00:46:10.792
He is transcendent, holy god.
00:46:10.792 --> 00:46:13.194
And...
00:46:13.194 --> 00:46:14.829
He condescends to be accessible to us.
00:46:14.829 --> 00:46:18.433
The fancy word for that is the hypostatic union.
00:46:18.433 --> 00:46:21.135
That just means our god is so kind
00:46:21.135 --> 00:46:24.405
That he distills his holiness
00:46:24.405 --> 00:46:26.941
And to the incarnate form of jesus
00:46:26.941 --> 00:46:29.177
So that we can actually connect with him.
00:46:29.177 --> 00:46:30.879
What a good god that he made a way for us to know him.
00:46:30.879 --> 00:46:33.915
- as we're wrapping up, i just want to-
00:46:34.782 --> 00:46:36.251
I wanna pray that jesus, i just ask for a revelation
00:46:36.251 --> 00:46:40.121
Of the kind of father that would send his son in that way.
00:46:40.121 --> 00:46:43.958
Father, that you don't stand, you're not angry with us,
00:46:43.958 --> 00:46:46.961
You're not upset with us.
00:46:46.961 --> 00:46:48.529
You love us. you came to save the world to set us free.
00:46:48.529 --> 00:46:53.334
And not just the world, but me and us
00:46:53.334 --> 00:46:56.638
And everyone watching how fiercely personal that is.
00:46:56.638 --> 00:46:59.340
And you did it through your son coming,
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:02.477
Delivered into a manger just to demonstrate,
00:47:02.477 --> 00:47:06.147
"i'll go anywhere."
00:47:06.147 --> 00:47:07.782
"i'll go to any length to find you, to set you free,
00:47:07.782 --> 00:47:11.853
To clean you up, to make you whole and to show you my love."
00:47:11.853 --> 00:47:16.190
And so god, whether this christmas season,
00:47:16.190 --> 00:47:18.493
It's just pain that people are walking through grief
00:47:18.493 --> 00:47:21.329
Or maybe shame or whatever it is.
00:47:21.329 --> 00:47:23.765
God, i just ask that you give us grace to open up
00:47:23.765 --> 00:47:27.402
And to let immanuel in to do what he does.
00:47:27.402 --> 00:47:31.472
That first responder that comes charging in
00:47:31.472 --> 00:47:34.742
When everybody else wants to leave,
00:47:34.742 --> 00:47:36.511
No one else will be found.
00:47:36.511 --> 00:47:38.112
There's jesus.
00:47:38.112 --> 00:47:39.480
The rubble of our lives,
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:40.882
Whether we set off the bomb or somebody else did.
00:47:40.882 --> 00:47:43.651
That you are there, patiently combing through.
00:47:43.651 --> 00:47:46.854
Bringing redemption to everything that you touch,
00:47:46.854 --> 00:47:50.725
Everything that you see.
00:47:50.725 --> 00:47:52.193
We open up the rubble of our lives.
00:47:52.193 --> 00:47:55.129
We open up the ash heap of our lives.
00:47:55.129 --> 00:47:57.932
And we say, jesus, would you come and heal?
00:47:57.932 --> 00:48:01.269
Would you come restore? and would you come and save?
00:48:01.269 --> 00:48:05.273
Thank you that you are nothing like i thought you were.
00:48:05.273 --> 00:48:08.743
You are so wonderful, jesus.
00:48:08.743 --> 00:48:12.180
So wonderful.
00:48:12.180 --> 00:48:13.982
And we invite you in as you truly are
00:48:13.982 --> 00:48:17.051
Give us a revelation of the reality
00:48:17.051 --> 00:48:20.355
Of jesus christ this holiday season.
00:48:20.355 --> 00:48:23.958
Thank you.
00:48:23.958 --> 00:48:24.959
In jesus' name.
00:48:24.959 --> 00:48:26.561
Amen. - amen.
00:48:26.561 --> 00:48:28.429
- [presenter] connect with us on social media
00:48:29.364 --> 00:48:30.698
And let us know how our team can pray for you.
00:48:30.698 --> 00:48:33.401
(christmas music)
00:48:33.401 --> 00:48:36.838
- is this a great question actually?
00:48:36.838 --> 00:48:38.706
How can i get through the holidays after losing my mother?
00:48:38.706 --> 00:48:41.909
How can i celebrate jesus while grieving?
00:48:41.909 --> 00:48:46.781
- wow.
00:48:47.015 --> 00:48:48.249
- i think one of the biggest misnomers
00:48:48.249 --> 00:48:49.117
In christian culture
00:48:49.117 --> 00:48:50.618
Is you have to curate your emotions to be a good christian.
00:48:50.618 --> 00:48:53.688
And you only bring the perky parts to church
00:48:53.688 --> 00:48:56.024
Or a small group.
00:48:56.024 --> 00:48:57.191
And that is not biblically defensible.
00:48:57.191 --> 00:48:59.060
If you look even at the psalms,
00:48:59.060 --> 00:49:01.095
All the psalms, p-s-a-l-m-s,
00:49:01.095 --> 00:49:03.164
That's the middle of our bibles.
00:49:03.164 --> 00:49:04.565
Were originally written as psalms
00:49:04.565 --> 00:49:06.934
And cece can sing every one of 'em.
00:49:06.934 --> 00:49:09.470
But what's stunning about the songs
00:49:09.470 --> 00:49:11.906
That god's people wrote is the majority of them are sad.
00:49:11.906 --> 00:49:16.444
Songs (unintelligible)
00:49:16.444 --> 00:49:17.812
- right, right, right.
00:49:17.812 --> 00:49:19.113
- so god not only allows us to bring our grief,
00:49:19.113 --> 00:49:22.817
He says, "i want you to bring your grief to me
00:49:22.817 --> 00:49:24.919
As a sacrifice of worship."
00:49:24.919 --> 00:49:27.088
And so, because jesus, our immanuel,
00:49:27.088 --> 00:49:29.824
Who we focus on at christmas, is an empathetic high priest.
00:49:29.824 --> 00:49:34.796
There's no grief you've experienced
00:49:34.796 --> 00:49:36.764
That he can't empathize with that grief.
00:49:36.764 --> 00:49:40.001
It says that he counts our tears.
00:49:40.001 --> 00:49:43.104
So not one of the tears you're crying over,
00:49:43.104 --> 00:49:45.073
Your mama goes unnoticed by the god
00:49:45.073 --> 00:49:47.008
Who loves us more than we can ask or imagine.
00:49:47.008 --> 00:49:49.677
Grief and celebrating jesus,
00:49:49.677 --> 00:49:51.813
It sounds like it's a juxtaposition.
00:49:51.813 --> 00:49:55.316
- when it goes together.
00:49:55.316 --> 00:49:56.551
- it goes together.
00:49:56.551 --> 00:49:57.952
You actually probably have a sweeter christmas.
00:49:57.952 --> 00:50:00.721
- mm hmm.
00:50:00.721 --> 00:50:01.789
Think so.
00:50:01.789 --> 00:50:02.757
- because you're cognizant of,
00:50:02.757 --> 00:50:03.858
"jesus, i can't make it by myself.
00:50:03.858 --> 00:50:05.860
I need your presence."
00:50:05.860 --> 00:50:07.662
So the truth of christmas may be even
00:50:07.662 --> 00:50:11.132
More obvious to you this year than ever before.
00:50:11.132 --> 00:50:14.469
- and i totally agree.
00:50:14.469 --> 00:50:16.170
- yeah.
00:50:16.170 --> 00:50:17.405
Plus there will be the melody of heaven
00:50:17.405 --> 00:50:20.108
In your christmas this year.
00:50:20.108 --> 00:50:21.542
Because when you have someone there who you love,
00:50:21.542 --> 00:50:24.912
Heaven becomes much more tangible.
00:50:24.912 --> 00:50:26.714
- so i would say invite jesus into your grief.
00:50:26.714 --> 00:50:30.518
- amen.
00:50:30.518 --> 00:50:32.053
- invite 'em in. - amen.
00:50:32.053 --> 00:50:33.788
- yeah.
00:50:33.788 --> 00:50:36.557
Thank you for trusting us with that part of your heart.
00:50:35.022 --> 00:50:38.893
- [presenter] stream full episodes
00:50:39.660 --> 00:50:40.995
Of "better together" on demand.
00:50:40.995 --> 00:50:43.397
Go to bettertogether.tv
00:50:43.397 --> 00:50:45.199
To stream all of our latest conversations.
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:48.136
(bright music)
00:50:48.503 --> 00:50:48.503

The Promise of Immanuel - Episode 1123

December 17, 2025 | S7 E1123 | 52:34

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