Better Together

The Promise of Immanuel - Episode 1123

December 17, 2025 | S7 E1123 | 52:34

God is WITH you, and He is FOR you! Our Savior could have made a grand entrance into this world. Instead, He arrived as a baby--born in a dirty stable and placed in a feeding trough. We serve a God who steps into our messy lives and makes all things new. | TBN Prayer Line: 714-731-1000

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Better Together | The Promise of Immanuel - Episode 1123 | December 17, 2025

(beeping sound)
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- jesus could have made a grand entrance,
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But instead he chose to step to this earth as a baby,
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Born in a barn and laid in a manger.
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The christmas story reminds us
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That our savior does not hesitate
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To stoop down into our messy lives.
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Come on, let's talk about it.
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(upbeat music)
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(upbeat music continues)
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- we're talking about what kind of messiah
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Would be born into a messy manger
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And i am grateful.
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Because life is messy.
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We, in 2018,
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Had this massive forest fire come through our city
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In northern california,
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And it was so hot,
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It formed a fire tornado,
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And it jumped over the river into our neighborhood.
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I mean, it was outrageous.
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There were like 65 homes
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And our immediate little neighborhood that were gone,
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So like six down from our house.
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They're gone, there's spot fires
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Where things are just random homes.
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Something flew on fire, it took it out.
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I mean, it was just insane.
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And we were evacuated
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And as we're going, you know,
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Everyone's frantically fleeing as you should.
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- right.
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- i mean, the town is on fire.
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And so there's this backup traffic on the five
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To just get out desperately everyone packed up
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What they could, and they are, they're going.
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My husband saw fire at the end of our street.
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I mean, it was outrageous.
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So in this traffic line, desperately,
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Everyone's just trying to get out.
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Well, coming back up the five in the other direction,
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You have these first responders
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Who are fleeing toward,
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They're running toward the wreckage.
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Toward the destruction.
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Toward the unthinkable.
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And all of us are just trying to get away, you know?
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And i'll never forget seeing those first responders
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And thinking, "that's jesus."
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That is the kind of god who would be found
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In a messy manger.
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The fire is contained
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And there's just wreckage.
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I mean, just people's homes,
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They had no time to get out.
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Every earthly belonging, everything gone.
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And our church and other, you know, organizations,
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Ministries went out and they did this thing
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I'll never forget, i saw jesus in it as well,
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Where they would go these hazmat suits,
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And they're picking through,
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Combing through the ash heaps,
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The rubble, the destruction
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And they're searching for gold.
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They're looking for wedding rings
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That were left on side tables next to the beds
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As people are running, finding diamonds, family heirlooms,
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Anything that could be found and salvaged.
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I mean, combing through, it's, i mean, piles,
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Piles of wreckage and finding some,
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And delivering it to these families,
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What they thought was lost, gone forever,
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And these rings are coming back.
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These are the diamonds and gold.
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Watching that, i thought, "that's jesus too," isn't it?
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The one who would rush in
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When everyone else is going into the hardest places,
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And then would painstakingly
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Pick through every piece of garbage,
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Because he's going to find the gold,
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He's going to find the diamonds,
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He's going to create beauty out of what has been abandoned,
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What has been left,
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What nobody else wants.
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There he is.
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And i think about this story
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And the fact that there's no room for him anywhere,
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I mean, mary's ready to burst,
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The contractions are getting closer and closer
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Right about to that equation
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Where it's like the hospital's like,
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All right, you better come in now
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Or we'll have you come in
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And she's ready to go
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And there's nowhere to have this baby messiah.
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But there is a feeding trough and there's animals,
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There's this manger
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And that's where our savior would be found
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And i just think it speaks to who god is,
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That that's the place he would deliver his son.
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And it speaks prophetically to who this messiah is,
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That he would be found there.
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That that would be the inaugural place of first breath is
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Full of the filth of these animals.
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He's willing to be found anywhere.
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- he's a world. - in anything.
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He's willing to pick through the rubble of our lives,
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To find the gold, to find the valuable.
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And the more that i live life
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And the more i need him,
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The more that the ash heaps have built up,
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The more that fires tear through that are so unexpected.
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I've founded jesus that is rushing in
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Where everybody else is uncomfortable.
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They know what to, they don't have to do,
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I don't want to be there.
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But here i am in the midst of it.
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- yes. - and there he is to be found
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Not only in that messy manger,
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But the messy manger in my life.
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- the nativity story,
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One of my favorite australian scholars,
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His name is john nolan,
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He calls the nativity story,
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The incarnation of jesus christ,
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The humility of the divine condescension.
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I mean, stop and think about it.
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God could reveal himself any way he wanted.
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Jesus could have come in the form of a cloud
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The way shekinah glory did in the old testament.
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Jesus could have come as a king wearing royal robes
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With a scepter that shot lightning out.
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Jesus could have come in any way
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And yet in the kindness of god,
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He presents his son in the most humble of circumstances.
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And of course, what he's illustrating is
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Salvation is for everyone,
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You don't have to be elite,
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There's no hierarchy in the family of god,
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I've made a way for all of you to be reconciled to me,
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The humility of christmas just underscores
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That we get to lean in a gospel of grace.
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This is not a gospel we earn,
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It's by god's grace that we're saved.
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- ever since losing our little girl,
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The anniversary in december,
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It's right before christmas,
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And it's changed christmas for us.
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- yeah, i bet it has.
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- and you hear so many people,
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It seems like just tragedy kind of
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Has a way of gathering around this christmas season.
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But what i've found isn't that it's become tidy.
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It's become sterilized.
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It's become clean.
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I've found time and time again in the memory
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And the everything resurfacing
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And the processing of what you would never hope for.
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And all of a sudden life changed forever.
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I've found that jesus there for me too.
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Even in the midst of the season.
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The messiness of grief and disappointment and pain.
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He comes and he still visits.
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He is not afraid of the mess.
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I don't know how we've so sterilized him.
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- right.
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- how religion has his way of making him so clean and tidy.
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But i have found him in my mess.
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I can testify.
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He has been there in the worst,
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In the worst ash heaps in the highest rubble,
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There's jesus.
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And i'm wondering, what's your trash heap?
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Anyone else have a manger they want to testify about,
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Where jesus has shown up?
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- yeah.
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- i love when you said he's willing to be found anywhere.
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- anywhere.
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- yeah, he specializes in the mess. (laughs)
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In the moments.
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When i look over my life,
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It's like at the worst times
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Is when he shines the brightest.
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- yeah. - yes.
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- you know?
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And he doesn't, when you were talking about
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Going through the trash and looking,
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He never gives up.
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- no, he doesn't.
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- he never gives up.
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- no.
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- you know, and that's so encouraging,
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Because you're going to go through times
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Of heartache and pain.
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- yeah.
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- but he's still there.
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We talked about that earlier.
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Being aware that he's there and and he's looking for you.
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- yeah.
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- he's looking for you.
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He's for you.
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- yeah. - yeah.
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- but he specializes.
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So, like you said, i don't know
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Why we've made living for him
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And knowing him so tidy and so neat.
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- right.
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- because when you look at jesus,
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He always showed up in the worst places.
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- that's right.
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- yes. - yes.
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- that's right.
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- and even for the worst kind of people.
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You know, he loves us all, he sees the value.
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He sees the value.
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- he sees the gold and the diamonds.
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- yeah. - he sees it.
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He sees it.
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- probably one of my favorite words
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In the whole wide world is emmanuel, god is with me.
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That's kind of all i need to know.
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God is with me always.
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He will never leave me and that's why he came.
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He wanted to be in us.
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He left us the holy spirit
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When he went to sit at the right hand of the father.
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God is on the inside of us.
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The third person of the holy trinity is within us,
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God with us.
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And that is the most powerful thing i can ever think about.
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- i went from being like on a national television show
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Where you, i would go in every morning
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Looking like i do when i come in here.
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And we have these amazing makeup artists who say,
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"the lord be with you, and the lord be with you."
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To trump us look a little better for tv.
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So i was used to that look.
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And then, you know, my life crashes
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And i end up in a psychiatric hospital.
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And i'll never forget that first morning,
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Because they take away all your stuff,
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Anything you could potentially hurt yourself with.
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So they take away your hair dryer, your makeup or anything.
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And all i have is just a bathrobe.
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And i've been told to go to this room
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Where you can get coffee in the morning
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With the other patients.
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And by the way, in a psych hospital, it's only decaf.
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If ever there was a time in your life
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Where you needed decent cup of coffee.
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So i wander in, and it hadn't even occurred to me
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That because this was a christian unit
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Within a hospital,
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That some of these people would know me.
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If you ever walked into a room and everybody's talking
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Until you walk in and then there's-
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- they're quiet. - silence.
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There's silence.
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And there even there, one guy says,
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"are you sheila walsh?"
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And i said, "yes."
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And he said, "what are you doing here?"
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And i said, "i'm a patient."
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And he was like, "yeah, right."
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I said, "well, you think i'm here to do a
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Documentary in my bathrobe?"
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And he said, "you look a lot better on television."
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(everyone laughing)
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And i said, "you know, i do. i do."
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But here, it was almost this severe mercy
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Of this gift that i will forever be grateful
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Of the lord stripping away everything.
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That made me think i had any value to him
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Or to anybody else.
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And suddenly i find myself in the
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Companionship of brokenness.
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Those who love jesus, but don't have all the answers.
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And it was, i mean, i'm honestly grateful
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For months i spent in a psychiatric hospital
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After years in ministry,
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Because it taught me what it looked like
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To be a follower of jesus.
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Not to be somebody who steps on a platform
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Or has things to say.
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Somebody who simply takes the next step
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And follows after him and follows after him.
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One of the hardest things
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To do is when things are not going well,
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When you find yourself in a really messy season,
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To still believe that god sees you,
00:11:46.862 --> 00:11:48.831
That he sees what's going on.
00:11:48.831 --> 00:11:50.933
I want you to know, you know,
00:11:50.933 --> 00:11:52.635
When david wrote psalm 34,
00:11:52.635 --> 00:11:54.703
He was in a very, very difficult, very broken place.
00:11:54.703 --> 00:11:58.174
He was in a very lonely place as well.
00:11:58.174 --> 00:12:01.043
And yet stopping in the midst of what was true for him
00:12:01.043 --> 00:12:05.047
And reflecting on the character of god,
00:12:05.047 --> 00:12:06.916
He was able to write this,
00:12:06.916 --> 00:12:08.450
"the lord is close to the broken hearted
00:12:08.450 --> 00:12:11.720
And saves those who are crushed in spirit."
00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.491
If that's how you feel this christmas,
00:12:15.491 --> 00:12:17.693
If something happened this year
00:12:17.693 --> 00:12:18.961
And you feel kind of broken hearted,
00:12:18.961 --> 00:12:20.462
Or you've got some bad news
00:12:20.462 --> 00:12:22.131
And you feel kind of crushed,
00:12:22.131 --> 00:12:23.966
I want you to remember and hold onto the promise from david,
00:12:23.966 --> 00:12:27.636
"the lord is close when your heart is broken."
00:12:27.636 --> 00:12:31.273
- during the hustle and bustle of the christmas season,
00:12:32.374 --> 00:12:35.377
The only way you can become more aware
00:12:35.377 --> 00:12:38.514
And sensitive to god's presence is to slow down.
00:12:38.514 --> 00:12:42.585
Take some time here and there.
00:12:43.219 --> 00:12:45.721
Sometimes it's best in the morning,
00:12:45.721 --> 00:12:48.057
Sometimes in the middle of the day,
00:12:48.057 --> 00:12:50.025
To just refocus on really what the season is about.
00:12:50.025 --> 00:12:53.462
And asking the lord how he wants you to celebrate,
00:12:53.462 --> 00:12:56.699
Or who does he want you to touch
00:12:56.699 --> 00:12:59.401
In a way that will bring jesus to other people.
00:12:59.401 --> 00:13:02.137
So you have to slow down and get alone in his presence.
00:13:02.137 --> 00:13:06.175
And sometimes that's just a five minute prayer,
00:13:06.175 --> 00:13:08.277
Sometimes it's when you're in your car,
00:13:08.277 --> 00:13:10.212
Sometimes it's in the morning, you know,
00:13:10.212 --> 00:13:12.581
In your devotional time.
00:13:12.581 --> 00:13:14.183
But you must slow down.
00:13:14.183 --> 00:13:16.819
Take out some time and talk to him.
00:13:16.819 --> 00:13:19.855
(upbeat music)
00:13:20.222 --> 00:13:21.590
- christmas is a time to reflect on god's promises
00:13:21.590 --> 00:13:23.425
And his presence.
00:13:23.425 --> 00:13:24.627
- connect with us on social media.
00:13:24.627 --> 00:13:26.528
We want to hear how you've seen god's hand at work
00:13:26.528 --> 00:13:29.331
In your life this year.
00:13:29.331 --> 00:13:31.000
- [narrator] watch "better together" on the go.
00:13:31.967 --> 00:13:34.036
You can find the "better together" podcast
00:13:34.036 --> 00:13:36.038
On your favorite listening platform.
00:13:36.038 --> 00:13:38.140
Subscribe today.
00:13:38.140 --> 00:13:40.006
Subscribe today.
00:13:40.006 --> 00:13:40.409
(upbeat music)
00:13:40.776 --> 00:13:45.781
- i didn't lose a child the way you lost olive.
00:13:46.715 --> 00:13:50.586
I lost an adoption three days
00:13:50.586 --> 00:13:52.388
Before i was bringing the baby girl home.
00:13:52.388 --> 00:13:54.523
And i called sheila and couldn't even speak.
00:13:54.523 --> 00:13:57.993
Felt like just my heart had been carved out of my chest
00:13:57.993 --> 00:14:01.130
And put on the robe.
00:14:01.130 --> 00:14:02.965
You know, when the shunammite woman, elishah
00:14:02.965 --> 00:14:06.201
Gives her, speaks to child to her,
00:14:06.201 --> 00:14:08.170
And then the child dies. - dies, right.
00:14:08.170 --> 00:14:09.738
- and she's like, mad. - right.
00:14:09.738 --> 00:14:11.607
- and she goes back to elishah
00:14:11.607 --> 00:14:12.875
And goes, "i didn't even hope for this."
00:14:12.875 --> 00:14:15.277
Because she says, "you'll be good."
00:14:15.277 --> 00:14:17.079
She's like, "no, you're coming home with me."
00:14:17.079 --> 00:14:19.014
And it's that kind of that hope deferred,
00:14:19.014 --> 00:14:22.051
Makes the heart sick, all that.
00:14:22.051 --> 00:14:24.153
And so really losing a child with the 11th hours,
00:14:24.153 --> 00:14:27.756
What gave me the grace to step into the process with missy.
00:14:27.756 --> 00:14:30.759
- but think about it, lisa,
00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:31.994
You had been so involved in that pregnancy.
00:14:31.994 --> 00:14:33.896
- i had.
00:14:33.896 --> 00:14:35.230
- you had poured your life into that child.
00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:36.565
- i had.
00:14:36.565 --> 00:14:37.599
Yeah, it was, you know,
00:14:37.599 --> 00:14:39.168
I've often thought i've never grieved that one completely
00:14:39.168 --> 00:14:41.837
Because i did, the little mama was a prostitute
00:14:41.837 --> 00:14:44.840
And a crack addict.
00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:45.941
And i spent the pregnancy with her
00:14:45.941 --> 00:14:47.843
And stayed in the crack house.
00:14:47.843 --> 00:14:49.211
Most interesting christmas i've ever had
00:14:49.211 --> 00:14:51.613
Was spinning a crack house.
00:14:51.613 --> 00:14:52.982
I don't think i would've said yes to missy,
00:14:52.982 --> 00:14:55.117
Because missy was supposed to only live a couple of months.
00:14:55.117 --> 00:14:58.454
But losing that baby at the 11th hour,
00:14:58.454 --> 00:15:00.689
I thought, goodness, even if she is never okay,
00:15:00.689 --> 00:15:04.593
I'll just go to haiti because every child deserves
00:15:04.593 --> 00:15:07.796
Somebody advocating for him.
00:15:07.796 --> 00:15:09.498
Anyway, long story short,
00:15:09.498 --> 00:15:10.866
It was a really arduous two year adoption journey.
00:15:10.866 --> 00:15:13.836
And finally it looked like everything
00:15:13.836 --> 00:15:17.206
Was coming to fruition.
00:15:17.206 --> 00:15:18.374
I was going to bring her home
00:15:18.374 --> 00:15:20.109
And i was going to bring her home
00:15:20.109 --> 00:15:21.543
They set in time for christmas.
00:15:21.543 --> 00:15:23.112
And so i decorated my house like clark griswold.
00:15:23.112 --> 00:15:27.316
I mean, it was, yeah, i'm surprised
00:15:27.316 --> 00:15:29.485
Small planes didn't land at my little cottage
00:15:29.485 --> 00:15:32.921
In leapers fork, just lights,
00:15:32.921 --> 00:15:34.623
I decorated the neighbor's bushes,
00:15:34.623 --> 00:15:36.125
I mean, everything was decorated.
00:15:36.125 --> 00:15:38.861
And i had given up hope
00:15:38.861 --> 00:15:40.729
That i would ever get to buy a stocking
00:15:40.729 --> 00:15:43.165
That said a child's name and mama on it.
00:15:43.165 --> 00:15:46.769
And so, knowing i was bringing missy home,
00:15:46.769 --> 00:15:49.271
I had these, i bought these real bougie stockings,
00:15:49.271 --> 00:15:51.774
Can't remember where i bought them from,
00:15:51.774 --> 00:15:53.509
But i had missy and mama embroidered on
00:15:53.509 --> 00:15:56.078
Them on both sides.
00:15:56.078 --> 00:15:57.746
So just in case they flipped,
00:15:57.746 --> 00:15:59.248
It would be on both sides
00:15:59.248 --> 00:16:00.549
And i was so proud of those stockings.
00:16:00.549 --> 00:16:05.754
And then in october, i got a letter from haiti that said,
00:16:06.889 --> 00:16:11.260
"you're not going to get her before christmas.
00:16:11.260 --> 00:16:12.928
As a matter of fact, you're probably not going
00:16:12.928 --> 00:16:15.097
To get her at all."
00:16:15.097 --> 00:16:16.698
And i can remember the day
00:16:16.698 --> 00:16:19.101
That i packed up every single christmas decoration
00:16:19.101 --> 00:16:23.605
I had in boxes.
00:16:23.605 --> 00:16:25.941
And i had this kind of storage under the stairs
00:16:25.941 --> 00:16:28.944
And i shoved cardboard boxes under the stairs
00:16:28.944 --> 00:16:31.680
And i thought, i will never hang
00:16:31.680 --> 00:16:33.449
Another stocking in my life,
00:16:33.449 --> 00:16:35.217
And i won't be around my friends at christmas
00:16:35.217 --> 00:16:37.086
Because i don't want to ruin theirs
00:16:37.086 --> 00:16:38.887
But my heart can't take one more loss.
00:16:38.887 --> 00:16:41.123
I thought, i can't take it.
00:16:41.123 --> 00:16:43.659
And that christmas, the christmas of my greatest grief
00:16:43.659 --> 00:16:47.830
Was the christmas that god's presence was palpable.
00:16:47.830 --> 00:16:51.967
I could feel,
00:16:51.967 --> 00:16:53.535
I don't even know how to put words around it,
00:16:53.535 --> 00:16:55.737
When i grew up baptist
00:16:55.737 --> 00:16:56.972
So we're not given to signs of wonders,
00:16:56.972 --> 00:16:59.108
I'm more pentecostal now, but goodness gracious,
00:16:59.108 --> 00:17:03.545
The tangible presence of god.
00:17:03.545 --> 00:17:08.217
In the, not just the mess of my life,
00:17:08.217 --> 00:17:11.220
But the grief. - that's it.
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:12.721
- of that christmas.
00:17:12.721 --> 00:17:13.922
And it made me see,
00:17:13.922 --> 00:17:16.091
There's this little tidbit in that first christmas story.
00:17:16.091 --> 00:17:20.229
You know, we all know bethlehem
00:17:20.229 --> 00:17:21.830
And we sing about a little town of bethlehem,
00:17:21.830 --> 00:17:24.800
But the name bethlehem, beit lechem in hebrew,
00:17:24.800 --> 00:17:29.004
Is house of bread.
00:17:29.004 --> 00:17:32.107
So we usually see the mess of the barn.
00:17:32.107 --> 00:17:34.009
And we forget, a first century semitic person
00:17:34.009 --> 00:17:37.112
Saw a barn as a place they got their meal from.
00:17:37.112 --> 00:17:40.883
Because they didn't have grocery stores.
00:17:40.883 --> 00:17:42.784
So that's where they're going to get the animals,
00:17:42.784 --> 00:17:44.586
They slaughter for food,
00:17:44.586 --> 00:17:45.821
And that's where they're going to get milk,
00:17:45.821 --> 00:17:47.156
And that's where they stored their grain.
00:17:47.156 --> 00:17:48.757
- wow. - wow.
00:17:48.757 --> 00:17:49.725
- and it's like god showed me,
00:17:49.725 --> 00:17:51.226
"yeah, the barn is a mess, lisa
00:17:51.226 --> 00:17:54.296
But that's where i'll feed you."
00:17:54.296 --> 00:17:55.831
Of course i'm a carb girl,
00:17:55.831 --> 00:17:57.533
So house of bread speaks to me as well.
00:17:57.533 --> 00:18:00.536
But i think as a much older woman in the house of god
00:18:00.536 --> 00:18:05.474
And the family of god,
00:18:05.474 --> 00:18:07.609
I've learned that the messiest places in my life
00:18:07.609 --> 00:18:11.313
Are the loveliest meals.
00:18:11.313 --> 00:18:12.981
I don't have to worry about which fork to use.
00:18:12.981 --> 00:18:17.252
I don't have to worry about not spilling spaghetti
00:18:17.252 --> 00:18:19.388
On my white shirt.
00:18:19.388 --> 00:18:21.023
It's those messy tables that are the sweetest meals
00:18:21.023 --> 00:18:26.261
And the sweetest conversations.
00:18:26.895 --> 00:18:28.697
And so i'm so grateful you brought this up
00:18:28.697 --> 00:18:31.700
Because i think in our culture
00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:33.335
We tend to think promise and mess
00:18:33.335 --> 00:18:36.205
Are opposite of the continuum,
00:18:36.205 --> 00:18:37.839
But in the economy of god, promise and mess,
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.876
Even promise and grief are not opposite ends.
00:18:40.876 --> 00:18:45.547
- the promise that god is always with us is our anchor.
00:18:46.682 --> 00:18:50.619
When it feels like things are falling apart,
00:18:50.619 --> 00:18:52.721
When we are out of control,
00:18:52.721 --> 00:18:54.323
We don't have what it takes, why?
00:18:54.323 --> 00:18:56.024
Because we don't need to.
00:18:56.024 --> 00:18:57.693
If i'm anchored to him,
00:18:57.693 --> 00:18:58.827
If i'm connected to him,
00:18:58.827 --> 00:19:00.128
I have all if that i need,
00:19:00.128 --> 00:19:02.464
All sufficient god is with me.
00:19:02.464 --> 00:19:05.167
What am i lacking?
00:19:05.167 --> 00:19:06.201
What don't i have?
00:19:06.201 --> 00:19:08.470
And so come what may any circumstance in the waiting,
00:19:08.470 --> 00:19:12.174
It doesn't matter, he is everything,
00:19:12.174 --> 00:19:15.310
And he is right here in the midst of me.
00:19:15.310 --> 00:19:18.180
- i'm glad that you have those stockings back out.
00:19:19.214 --> 00:19:20.983
- yeah.
00:19:20.983 --> 00:19:21.950
- you know, i bought more
00:19:21.950 --> 00:19:24.586
Because i did get missy six months later,
00:19:24.586 --> 00:19:27.256
Total miracle of god
00:19:27.256 --> 00:19:28.790
And we have so many missy and mama stockings.
00:19:28.790 --> 00:19:33.028
I could give them to you to hang into your home as well.
00:19:33.028 --> 00:19:36.732
I mean, you know, but then the gift is even greater.
00:19:36.732 --> 00:19:39.935
I didn't know that he would bring it back around.
00:19:39.935 --> 00:19:42.871
Yeah, such a good god,
00:19:42.871 --> 00:19:44.206
Such a good god.
00:19:44.206 --> 00:19:45.173
- you know, i find all of us,
00:19:45.173 --> 00:19:46.408
We travel a lot
00:19:46.408 --> 00:19:47.776
And don't you find when you go
00:19:47.776 --> 00:19:49.745
To some of the roughest places,
00:19:49.745 --> 00:19:51.980
The people who are suffering the most.
00:19:51.980 --> 00:19:53.749
- yes.
00:19:53.749 --> 00:19:55.017
- you experience the tangible presence of god
00:19:55.017 --> 00:19:57.486
In such a way, it's just like-
00:19:57.486 --> 00:19:59.621
- true.
00:19:59.621 --> 00:20:00.455
- i don't know.
00:20:00.455 --> 00:20:01.823
It's like they experience something that we don't,
00:20:01.823 --> 00:20:05.460
When we are so tied up in trying to be perfect,
00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:08.697
And it's like we don't even invite him to the table.
00:20:08.697 --> 00:20:11.867
- it's like we put a cap on his power,
00:20:11.867 --> 00:20:14.069
We sanitize it.
00:20:14.069 --> 00:20:15.070
- that's it.
00:20:15.070 --> 00:20:16.071
- it's like, let it be messy.
00:20:16.071 --> 00:20:17.439
- and if it's not perfect, then it's not him.
00:20:17.439 --> 00:20:19.908
You know, when the lord is like, i just want your heart.
00:20:19.908 --> 00:20:21.710
You know, i just want you.
00:20:21.710 --> 00:20:23.812
And you go into these places, it's like, we miss it.
00:20:23.812 --> 00:20:26.581
- yeah. - we miss him
00:20:26.581 --> 00:20:29.084
Because it's a mess, we miss it.
00:20:29.084 --> 00:20:30.919
- yes. - yes, right.
00:20:30.919 --> 00:20:32.854
- and he's in the mess.
00:20:32.854 --> 00:20:35.190
- yes.
00:20:35.190 --> 00:20:36.224
- one of the things that really
00:20:36.224 --> 00:20:37.893
Has left a lasting impression on me,
00:20:37.893 --> 00:20:40.295
I used to work with an organization called aim,
00:20:40.295 --> 00:20:42.497
And it would be rescuing young girls out of sex trafficking.
00:20:42.497 --> 00:20:45.434
And so i would work a lot in cambodia
00:20:45.434 --> 00:20:47.436
And in thailand, in bangkok,
00:20:47.436 --> 00:20:50.238
And this one place in cambodia, in phnom penh,
00:20:50.238 --> 00:20:54.109
It's just, it's awful.
00:20:54.109 --> 00:20:55.977
And so many of the girls in this area,
00:20:55.977 --> 00:20:58.613
I mean the area is filthy,
00:20:58.613 --> 00:21:00.248
You go into this tunnel and then there's steps down
00:21:00.248 --> 00:21:02.784
Into where they have to take these,
00:21:02.784 --> 00:21:03.919
I mean, it's horrible.
00:21:03.919 --> 00:21:05.921
And i had been there one year
00:21:05.921 --> 00:21:08.590
And we'd spent some time with some of the girls
00:21:08.590 --> 00:21:10.258
And talked to them
00:21:10.258 --> 00:21:11.326
And i was aware of their pimp,
00:21:11.326 --> 00:21:13.195
He was keeping an eye on me the whole time.
00:21:13.195 --> 00:21:16.398
Fast forward, almost christmas the next year
00:21:16.398 --> 00:21:19.868
And i go back and i see some of the same girls,
00:21:19.868 --> 00:21:23.271
Spent some time with them and i asked where he is
00:21:23.271 --> 00:21:26.708
And i discover that he had been listening
00:21:26.708 --> 00:21:29.845
In the year before to our team
00:21:29.845 --> 00:21:31.947
When we were there praying over the girls,
00:21:31.947 --> 00:21:34.483
He had given his life to jesus.
00:21:34.483 --> 00:21:36.151
- oh my goodness.
00:21:36.151 --> 00:21:37.652
- and he's now married and his wife's expecting a baby.
00:21:37.652 --> 00:21:40.088
And i thought, god, only you in this filthy, hot,
00:21:40.088 --> 00:21:45.360
Dirty, given over to evil.
00:21:45.927 --> 00:21:47.863
- that's amazing.
00:21:47.863 --> 00:21:49.297
- but somehow one of our team, i don't know who it was,
00:21:49.297 --> 00:21:51.199
Prayed over a girl and he heard and he thought,
00:21:51.199 --> 00:21:54.870
"that's what i want.
00:21:54.870 --> 00:21:56.505
That's what i want."
00:21:56.505 --> 00:21:57.406
God shows up in the mess.
00:21:57.406 --> 00:21:59.775
- that's amazing.
00:21:59.775 --> 00:22:00.976
That's amazing.
00:22:00.976 --> 00:22:03.078
- when it comes to inviting the lord
00:22:03.845 --> 00:22:05.280
Into the mess of our lives,
00:22:05.280 --> 00:22:07.182
I don't think there's an easy three step process.
00:22:07.182 --> 00:22:09.885
I think you have to fall into it.
00:22:09.885 --> 00:22:12.521
The easy three step process is the tidy way in.
00:22:12.521 --> 00:22:16.057
And what we're saying is he doesn't need that.
00:22:16.057 --> 00:22:18.727
He needs the honesty, he needs the raw truth.
00:22:18.727 --> 00:22:22.397
He already knows it.
00:22:22.397 --> 00:22:23.832
He already knows my heart and yours.
00:22:23.832 --> 00:22:26.034
So who am i kidding?
00:22:26.034 --> 00:22:27.736
Who am i trying to hide from?
00:22:27.736 --> 00:22:29.504
The way that we come, honestly before god is to just do it.
00:22:29.504 --> 00:22:34.376
To not overthink it, to not cover up,
00:22:34.376 --> 00:22:36.411
To not try to pause
00:22:36.411 --> 00:22:37.846
Or make it look better than it is,
00:22:37.846 --> 00:22:39.181
But to just lay it out in front of him.
00:22:39.181 --> 00:22:41.683
Trusting he is full of mercy.
00:22:41.683 --> 00:22:44.986
He is a patient god.
00:22:44.986 --> 00:22:46.488
And he's committed to us through it all.
00:22:46.488 --> 00:22:50.625
- one of my most desperate places in my life,
00:22:51.560 --> 00:22:54.396
I remember god saying,
00:22:54.396 --> 00:22:56.398
"it is never anything that you do for me."
00:22:56.398 --> 00:22:59.768
Because i was like, god, if you would just do this,
00:23:00.769 --> 00:23:03.738
I could be doing that, you know?
00:23:04.372 --> 00:23:07.375
And i actually said it out of my mouth
00:23:07.375 --> 00:23:11.680
And it was like i was slugged in the stomach
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:13.815
With the most beautiful, two by four, loving, two by four.
00:23:13.815 --> 00:23:17.786
And i thought, that's the most arrogant thing
00:23:17.786 --> 00:23:19.921
I've ever heard in my life and i said it.
00:23:19.921 --> 00:23:24.826
I said it.
00:23:24.826 --> 00:23:26.361
Look at all that i could be doing for you if you would only,
00:23:26.361 --> 00:23:29.564
And god said, "it is never anything about what you do."
00:23:29.564 --> 00:23:34.803
- that's right.
00:23:35.170 --> 00:23:36.471
- it's what i can do on the inside of you.
00:23:36.471 --> 00:23:38.573
That's the change that god wants to make
00:23:38.573 --> 00:23:41.376
Where you automatically walk in the will of god,
00:23:41.376 --> 00:23:44.779
When you're surrendered
00:23:44.779 --> 00:23:45.881
And i need to get you surrendered.
00:23:45.881 --> 00:23:47.883
And the bible says that in the hands of the potter,
00:23:47.883 --> 00:23:53.154
The clay was marred.
00:23:53.622 --> 00:23:55.023
- yeah, yeah.
00:23:55.023 --> 00:23:56.625
- in his hands, he was marred so that he can shape us
00:23:56.625 --> 00:24:00.762
And that he can make us the way he wants us to be.
00:24:00.762 --> 00:24:04.900
- i love that we are connecting pain with promise
00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:08.270
Because i think we try to fix pain to get promise.
00:24:08.270 --> 00:24:12.173
- that's right.
00:24:12.173 --> 00:24:13.575
- especially at christmas when you've gotten all
00:24:13.575 --> 00:24:15.110
The humble brags on social media and on your refrigerator
00:24:15.110 --> 00:24:18.413
And our child just graduated with a 7.0 from harvard
00:24:18.413 --> 00:24:22.751
And i'm like, we're hoping to pass history.
00:24:22.751 --> 00:24:25.654
- yeah. - and i.
00:24:25.654 --> 00:24:27.355
- i read this quote by bonhoeffer,
00:24:28.123 --> 00:24:29.457
But he said this, that i think really is...
00:24:29.457 --> 00:24:32.594
Kind of where we're landing
00:24:32.594 --> 00:24:34.095
On today's conversation about the promise.
00:24:34.095 --> 00:24:36.364
He says, "the celebration of advent is possible
00:24:36.364 --> 00:24:39.534
Only to those who are troubled in soul.
00:24:39.534 --> 00:24:42.237
Who know themselves to be poor and imperfect.
00:24:42.237 --> 00:24:45.941
And look forward to something greater to come.
00:24:45.941 --> 00:24:49.377
- wow. that's beautiful.
00:24:49.377 --> 00:24:50.745
- which is really exactly what you're saying,
00:24:50.745 --> 00:24:51.913
Which is what you're saying about
00:24:51.913 --> 00:24:53.715
Being in the places where people are cognizant
00:24:53.715 --> 00:24:56.051
Of the fact they're suffering.
00:24:56.051 --> 00:24:57.552
They haven't covered it over with a christmas sweater.
00:24:57.552 --> 00:24:59.955
They're going i, a.
00:24:59.955 --> 00:25:02.257
And our a seems to accelerate his compassion.
00:25:03.191 --> 00:25:06.928
- isn't that amazing
00:25:07.395 --> 00:25:08.730
That the angels came to the boys on the hill?
00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:10.599
That almost blows me away.
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:12.033
Shepherds were the most despised group in the community.
00:25:12.033 --> 00:25:15.103
I didn't realize until recently when i was with them.
00:25:15.103 --> 00:25:16.538
- not even allowed to vote?
00:25:16.538 --> 00:25:17.806
- no! and if they walked through town,
00:25:17.806 --> 00:25:19.474
Vendors would throw things at them.
00:25:19.474 --> 00:25:21.409
I mean, they were looked on as nothing.
00:25:21.409 --> 00:25:23.845
And god showed up to them.
00:25:23.845 --> 00:25:25.480
- wow. - wow.
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:26.648
- and i just think that's...
00:25:26.648 --> 00:25:28.383
So beautiful. - 'cause we've even
00:25:28.383 --> 00:25:29.217
Sanitized that!
00:25:29.217 --> 00:25:30.485
When we talked about sanitizing, we put-
00:25:30.485 --> 00:25:31.820
We think of shepherds
00:25:31.820 --> 00:25:33.288
As little boys in their parents' bathrobes.
00:25:33.288 --> 00:25:35.557
And an advent and nativity play.
00:25:35.557 --> 00:25:37.092
- right? - and you're like,
00:25:37.092 --> 00:25:37.993
Mm hmm. - no.
00:25:37.993 --> 00:25:39.628
- first century shepherds in all of the jewish writings are,
00:25:39.628 --> 00:25:43.365
I mean, you might let one clean out your barn.
00:25:43.365 --> 00:25:46.301
You're not gonna let one inside.
00:25:46.301 --> 00:25:48.503
And in the sovereignty of god,
00:25:48.503 --> 00:25:50.505
He says, "i'll choose the messiest, the lowliest,
00:25:50.505 --> 00:25:53.408
The least of these."
00:25:53.408 --> 00:25:54.809
'cause, you know, we play up the wise men.
00:25:54.809 --> 00:25:57.212
They didn't come till two years later,
00:25:57.212 --> 00:25:58.847
And there weren't three. that's just the number of gifts.
00:25:58.847 --> 00:26:00.782
We don't know how many there were.
00:26:00.782 --> 00:26:02.517
I love that the first ones
00:26:02.517 --> 00:26:04.919
He showed himself to.
00:26:04.919 --> 00:26:06.221
- the shepherds.
00:26:06.221 --> 00:26:07.055
- were the messiest.
00:26:07.055 --> 00:26:08.256
- i know! - yeah.
00:26:08.256 --> 00:26:09.658
Nobody else would've given him the time of day.
00:26:09.658 --> 00:26:11.292
- it's like, he continues to do this.
00:26:11.292 --> 00:26:14.963
Where there's eyes to see.
00:26:14.963 --> 00:26:16.464
He goes in the most unexpected places over and over.
00:26:16.464 --> 00:26:19.567
And to me, it's like, it just so perfectly ties to
00:26:19.567 --> 00:26:23.204
The story of his life has demonstrated
00:26:23.204 --> 00:26:25.206
In, you know, a manger.
00:26:25.206 --> 00:26:27.342
And then the proclamation,
00:26:27.342 --> 00:26:29.177
The host of heaven shows up to these boys on a hill.
00:26:29.177 --> 00:26:31.846
You're like, "that's where heaven turns up!"
00:26:31.846 --> 00:26:33.581
- dirty boys.
00:26:33.581 --> 00:26:34.816
Dirty boys, yeah. - dirty boys on a hill.
00:26:34.816 --> 00:26:36.051
- the night shift, like of all shifts.
00:26:36.051 --> 00:26:37.419
You know? you're like, "what?"
00:26:37.419 --> 00:26:39.220
(overlapping chatter)
00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:40.055
Yes.
00:26:40.055 --> 00:26:41.456
But then it really does give a certain meaning to me
00:26:41.456 --> 00:26:45.126
When we get to these teachings,
00:26:45.126 --> 00:26:46.828
Matthew 5, the sermon on the mount.
00:26:46.828 --> 00:26:48.963
So who's this good news to? the poor in spirit.
00:26:48.963 --> 00:26:51.833
"blessed are the poor in spirit,
00:26:51.833 --> 00:26:53.601
Theirs is the kingdom of heaven." right?
00:26:53.601 --> 00:26:55.303
"to those who mourn, you'll be comforted.
00:26:55.303 --> 00:26:57.639
Blessed, happy are the meek,
00:26:57.639 --> 00:26:59.874
You get the earth.
00:26:59.874 --> 00:27:01.242
Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
00:27:01.242 --> 00:27:02.477
They'll be satisfied.
00:27:02.477 --> 00:27:03.678
If you're persecuted, good for you."
00:27:03.678 --> 00:27:06.047
And it's very clear who he's- - congratulations!
00:27:06.047 --> 00:27:08.416
- yeah! yeah! absolutely!
00:27:08.416 --> 00:27:10.452
But the storyline here is very consistent.
00:27:10.452 --> 00:27:13.254
- very clear. - true.
00:27:13.254 --> 00:27:14.389
- where he shows up.
00:27:14.389 --> 00:27:15.356
- absolutely. even mary's song!
00:27:15.356 --> 00:27:16.858
- what gets his attention.
00:27:16.858 --> 00:27:17.826
- that's right. mary's song,
00:27:17.826 --> 00:27:18.827
Like he comes after the lowly.
00:27:18.827 --> 00:27:20.762
And the rich, he pays no mind.
00:27:20.762 --> 00:27:23.164
But the hungry, you know?
00:27:23.164 --> 00:27:24.232
The weak. and it's like,
00:27:24.232 --> 00:27:26.167
This is just such a different kingdom
00:27:26.167 --> 00:27:28.803
Than the one that i would imagine.
00:27:28.803 --> 00:27:30.305
The one i would (speaks unintelligibly)
00:27:30.305 --> 00:27:31.473
- the one that we're striving for.
00:27:31.473 --> 00:27:32.907
- absolutely. even the messiah, everybody expected.
00:27:32.907 --> 00:27:35.510
These, like, the different, you know,
00:27:35.510 --> 00:27:37.378
Jewish sects and what they were,
00:27:37.378 --> 00:27:38.980
The anticipation of what this messiah is
00:27:38.980 --> 00:27:41.049
Off of all these prophecies and everything.
00:27:41.049 --> 00:27:42.751
It's- he just came so...
00:27:42.751 --> 00:27:44.486
- different. - different.
00:27:44.486 --> 00:27:45.587
- different.
00:27:45.587 --> 00:27:47.122
- and i think for me, really the sobering thing is i'm like,
00:27:47.122 --> 00:27:48.490
"what is the unexpected manger that i could miss?"
00:27:48.490 --> 00:27:52.627
Because i see jesus as, "oh, he must be like this."
00:27:52.627 --> 00:27:55.530
Which in a lot of cases, i think he must just be like me.
00:27:55.530 --> 00:27:58.066
But it's like
00:27:58.066 --> 00:27:59.534
My expectation has me looking in this place for him
00:27:59.534 --> 00:28:03.204
When he really wants to be found in all these other places.
00:28:03.204 --> 00:28:06.441
And i think there's such an invitation there of...
00:28:06.441 --> 00:28:09.244
Where do i think, "oh, he wouldn't be found there."
00:28:09.244 --> 00:28:11.913
"surely, he would be here."
00:28:11.913 --> 00:28:13.715
We all have these assumptions in our mind
00:28:13.715 --> 00:28:17.185
Of where god is willing to go and where he wouldn't.
00:28:17.185 --> 00:28:20.088
The things he would anoint and the things he'd wanna forget.
00:28:20.088 --> 00:28:23.091
And it's very clear through jesus' life,
00:28:23.091 --> 00:28:24.993
The prophecy is all the way through.
00:28:24.993 --> 00:28:27.128
He goes different places than we think he would.
00:28:27.128 --> 00:28:31.099
And he blesses different things.
00:28:31.099 --> 00:28:33.401
- we have to remember that the people
00:28:34.202 --> 00:28:36.337
In the bible waited for 400 years.
00:28:36.337 --> 00:28:39.574
It's like the last word about any kind of a messiah coming.
00:28:39.574 --> 00:28:43.178
And people waited 400 years.
00:28:43.178 --> 00:28:45.513
And you think, "how did they stay expectant
00:28:45.513 --> 00:28:48.082
For god to show up?"
00:28:48.082 --> 00:28:48.917
Because suddenly,
00:28:48.917 --> 00:28:50.985
There was a little baby born in a manger. (laughs)
00:28:50.985 --> 00:28:54.722
And suddenly the messiah had come.
00:28:54.722 --> 00:28:57.525
And were they ready for it?
00:28:57.525 --> 00:28:58.960
You know, they've rejected jesus.
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:01.262
And you just kind of think
00:29:01.262 --> 00:29:02.730
What would've happened had they actually accepted him
00:29:02.730 --> 00:29:06.334
As the messiah?
00:29:06.334 --> 00:29:08.136
And so i think we need to be prepared.
00:29:08.136 --> 00:29:10.338
Keep your heart of expectation open
00:29:10.338 --> 00:29:14.175
To what god has for you, because it's coming.
00:29:14.175 --> 00:29:17.712
It is coming and it's coming for you.
00:29:17.712 --> 00:29:20.415
- here's what blew me away.
00:29:21.015 --> 00:29:22.250
When we were in is israel the last time
00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:23.751
When we were on the place
00:29:23.751 --> 00:29:25.053
Where he delivered the sermon on the mount.
00:29:25.053 --> 00:29:26.754
When you read this like matthew 5,
00:29:26.754 --> 00:29:29.591
"you are the light of the world."
00:29:29.591 --> 00:29:31.192
Jesus is saying that to crowd of yahoos!
00:29:31.192 --> 00:29:33.595
It's not like he was in church delivering a sermon.
00:29:33.595 --> 00:29:36.097
- no, no, no.
00:29:36.097 --> 00:29:36.931
- saying, you know,
00:29:36.931 --> 00:29:38.333
"five of you who've been very faithful in the torah,"
00:29:38.333 --> 00:29:40.568
You know?
00:29:40.568 --> 00:29:41.870
- no. he was looking at the masses and saying,
00:29:41.870 --> 00:29:44.806
"come on."
00:29:44.806 --> 00:29:46.241
"you're the lighter though. that's why i'm here."
00:29:46.241 --> 00:29:48.142
- they were illiterate.
00:29:48.142 --> 00:29:49.510
They had nothing to offer or so they thought.
00:29:49.510 --> 00:29:51.713
- but i think a great challenge outside of our doors.
00:29:51.713 --> 00:29:54.916
- yes, that's right.
00:29:54.916 --> 00:29:56.017
- and call people to who jesus is!
00:29:56.017 --> 00:29:57.919
- [person] and call 'em.
00:29:57.919 --> 00:29:59.320
- he saw in them the imago dei, the image of god.
00:29:59.320 --> 00:30:01.189
- [person] yes.
00:30:01.189 --> 00:30:02.457
- i'd never heard it through their ears,
00:30:02.457 --> 00:30:03.691
But when you hear it through-
00:30:03.691 --> 00:30:04.959
'cause they were told they were nothing!
00:30:04.959 --> 00:30:06.094
They were worth anything!
00:30:06.094 --> 00:30:07.762
I mean, they weren't in religious circles.
00:30:07.762 --> 00:30:09.631
They had no value whatsoever.
00:30:09.631 --> 00:30:11.699
Until the son of god himself stood up and said,
00:30:11.699 --> 00:30:14.903
"you know what? you're the light of the world."
00:30:14.903 --> 00:30:17.238
You know? - [person 1] wow.
00:30:17.238 --> 00:30:19.407
That's good.
00:30:19.407 --> 00:30:20.508
- he went through the trash heap.
00:30:20.508 --> 00:30:21.409
- [person 2] yeah, he did.
00:30:21.409 --> 00:30:22.210
- and he found him.
00:30:22.210 --> 00:30:23.311
He said, "that's gold." - always.
00:30:23.311 --> 00:30:24.479
- and that's a diamond.
00:30:24.479 --> 00:30:25.780
And then, "if you don't have eyes to see,"
00:30:25.780 --> 00:30:27.682
You know, it's-
00:30:27.682 --> 00:30:28.483
He says it over.
00:30:28.483 --> 00:30:29.617
"and those who have eyes to see."
00:30:29.617 --> 00:30:30.852
And all over it, "do you not perceive?"
00:30:30.852 --> 00:30:32.520
We need eyes to see things the way that he does.
00:30:32.520 --> 00:30:35.490
'cause so clearly, this is upside down.
00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:37.358
So clearly.
00:30:37.358 --> 00:30:39.160
- totally upside down.
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:40.361
- the way that we evaluate naturally
00:30:40.361 --> 00:30:41.796
Is not the way that the kingdom kingdom of god
00:30:41.796 --> 00:30:44.532
See these things.
00:30:44.532 --> 00:30:45.366
Yes. yes.
00:30:45.366 --> 00:30:46.200
- and i just think...
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:47.869
We have to...
00:30:47.869 --> 00:30:49.237
During this season and every season,
00:30:49.237 --> 00:30:51.906
Our goal is to be like jesus.
00:30:51.906 --> 00:30:53.641
- yeah. - right.
00:30:53.641 --> 00:30:54.809
- you know?
00:30:54.809 --> 00:30:55.643
Is to be like him.
00:30:55.643 --> 00:30:57.312
And...
00:30:57.312 --> 00:30:58.780
And if we're gonna be like him, i think we have to...
00:30:58.780 --> 00:31:01.349
Start looking for him in the right places.
00:31:01.349 --> 00:31:04.519
- right. - you know?
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:05.787
- right. - lord, show me today.
00:31:05.787 --> 00:31:08.056
- how i can-
00:31:08.056 --> 00:31:09.457
That one person today. you know what i'm saying?
00:31:09.457 --> 00:31:11.859
Who's hurting?
00:31:11.859 --> 00:31:13.094
- [person 1] yes. - [person 2] right.
00:31:13.094 --> 00:31:14.629
- where can i bless somebody? they can't bless me back.
00:31:14.629 --> 00:31:16.831
- [person 1] yes.
00:31:16.831 --> 00:31:18.166
- [person 2] right. right? - [person 1] yeah.
00:31:18.166 --> 00:31:19.167
- you know? - that's it.
00:31:19.167 --> 00:31:20.335
- who has the world pushed aside?
00:31:20.335 --> 00:31:22.670
You know, because that's where you're gonna find him.
00:31:22.670 --> 00:31:24.772
You're gonna find him in the mess.
00:31:24.772 --> 00:31:26.007
You're gonna find him with the broken.
00:31:26.007 --> 00:31:27.408
You're gonna find him with those who are hurting.
00:31:27.408 --> 00:31:29.077
And i think a lot of times we're missing out on...
00:31:29.077 --> 00:31:32.013
On running into him.
00:31:32.013 --> 00:31:34.148
And receiving things that he wants to give us.
00:31:34.148 --> 00:31:37.185
Because we're not going into those messy places.
00:31:37.185 --> 00:31:40.221
- that's right.
00:31:40.221 --> 00:31:41.055
- wow. - yes.
00:31:41.055 --> 00:31:41.889
- messy situation.
00:31:41.889 --> 00:31:43.291
- my parents divorced when i was really little.
00:31:43.291 --> 00:31:44.225
And my dad was a mess of a man.
00:31:44.225 --> 00:31:46.794
Married and divorced three times.
00:31:46.794 --> 00:31:48.396
Just...
00:31:48.396 --> 00:31:49.364
Just a very colorful man.
00:31:49.364 --> 00:31:51.733
Didn't talk much, i got all of his words.
00:31:51.733 --> 00:31:54.102
But when he repented late in his life,
00:31:54.102 --> 00:31:57.238
My dad was just a really, really-
00:31:57.972 --> 00:31:59.240
He was a messy guy with a lot of regrets,
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:01.943
But so much gratitude that god had redeemed his story.
00:32:01.943 --> 00:32:05.913
And he,
00:32:05.913 --> 00:32:07.615
Every single christmas eve and christmas day,
00:32:07.615 --> 00:32:10.518
He ruined my gifts.
00:32:10.518 --> 00:32:13.054
Because my dad,
00:32:13.054 --> 00:32:15.223
I think he felt the most comfortable,
00:32:15.223 --> 00:32:17.125
Actually around the least of these beast.
00:32:17.125 --> 00:32:19.227
He still carried some shame.
00:32:19.227 --> 00:32:20.828
But we always spent it in the homeless shelters.
00:32:20.828 --> 00:32:23.331
One of his best friends ran a big homeless shelter
00:32:23.331 --> 00:32:25.366
In orlando, florida.
00:32:25.366 --> 00:32:26.634
Grew up in central florida.
00:32:26.634 --> 00:32:27.869
So christmas day, i always knew
00:32:27.869 --> 00:32:29.871
I couldn't really glory in any gifts i'd gotten.
00:32:29.871 --> 00:32:32.840
'cause daddy and i were going to the homeless shelter.
00:32:32.840 --> 00:32:35.209
But it began just this pattern in my life of not-
00:32:35.209 --> 00:32:40.548
And i don't mean to sound like i'm not materialistic.
00:32:41.649 --> 00:32:42.750
I love nice shoes and nice purses.
00:32:42.750 --> 00:32:44.986
And i'm not one who gives missy like
00:32:44.986 --> 00:32:47.088
Toilet paper for christmas.
00:32:47.088 --> 00:32:48.623
I mean, i-
00:32:48.623 --> 00:32:50.291
So i don't mean to sound like a, you know,
00:32:50.291 --> 00:32:52.060
A scrooge.
00:32:52.060 --> 00:32:53.428
But it just put everything in perspective.
00:32:53.428 --> 00:32:57.298
- amazing.
00:32:57.298 --> 00:32:58.699
- and sometimes as a teenager i'd be like, "ugh!"
00:32:58.699 --> 00:33:01.169
And then by the time even i'd been there an hour,
00:33:02.170 --> 00:33:04.572
I'd be like, "thank you jesus. thank you jesus."
00:33:04.572 --> 00:33:07.075
- i know, i know.
00:33:07.075 --> 00:33:08.176
- and it just, my father gave me,
00:33:08.176 --> 00:33:11.412
He didn't have much materially,
00:33:11.412 --> 00:33:13.815
But he gave me a perspective at christmas
00:33:13.815 --> 00:33:18.219
To go to the places where i think if jesus
00:33:18.219 --> 00:33:22.123
Were incarnate again this christmas,
00:33:22.123 --> 00:33:25.726
Well, he'd be everywhere.
00:33:25.726 --> 00:33:27.528
He'd find broken, lost, sad people everywhere.
00:33:27.528 --> 00:33:30.331
But i think he'd be places we wouldn't expect.
00:33:30.331 --> 00:33:33.134
And so i love,
00:33:33.134 --> 00:33:34.469
I love being with lonely people at christmas
00:33:34.469 --> 00:33:37.371
And come to the island of the misfit toys,
00:33:37.371 --> 00:33:40.041
Because i think a whole lot of people think
00:33:40.041 --> 00:33:42.110
Christmas is about pretending
00:33:42.110 --> 00:33:43.578
Like they have it all together.
00:33:43.578 --> 00:33:44.979
- right. yes.
00:33:44.979 --> 00:33:46.481
- and i'm like, "no, it's a safe time to say i don't."
00:33:46.481 --> 00:33:48.316
Let me tell you he loves me unconditionally
00:33:48.316 --> 00:33:51.052
Even with all my mess.
00:33:51.052 --> 00:33:52.954
- oh man. i think christmas time definitely highlights
00:33:54.055 --> 00:33:57.058
How much god wants a personal relationship with us.
00:33:57.058 --> 00:33:59.827
I mean, think about it.
00:33:59.827 --> 00:34:01.195
We're celebrating the birth of jesus.
00:34:01.195 --> 00:34:04.132
Jesus becoming a man of flesh,
00:34:04.132 --> 00:34:06.501
Coming all the way from heaven to earth
00:34:06.501 --> 00:34:09.003
So that god could be with us.
00:34:09.003 --> 00:34:10.705
Oh, man. that means he really, really loves us.
00:34:10.705 --> 00:34:13.407
And so i think this season,
00:34:13.407 --> 00:34:15.376
More than any other season,
00:34:15.977 --> 00:34:18.746
Allows us to see that we are loved.
00:34:18.746 --> 00:34:23.151
- [presenter] be the first to know
00:34:23.918 --> 00:34:25.186
All the latest "better together" updates.
00:34:25.186 --> 00:34:27.722
Visit bettertogether.tv to sign up for our weekly emails.
00:34:27.722 --> 00:34:31.459
And never miss the latest news.
00:34:31.459 --> 00:34:35.003
And never miss the latest news.
00:34:35.003 --> 00:34:35.764
(christmas music)
00:34:36.198 --> 00:34:41.737
- one of the greatest titles,
00:34:42.371 --> 00:34:43.672
The greatest names that jesus has given,
00:34:43.672 --> 00:34:45.641
Is found in the book of isaiah.
00:34:45.641 --> 00:34:47.376
And it's immanuel, which means "god with us".
00:34:47.376 --> 00:34:52.648
I pray that this christmas season,
00:34:53.415 --> 00:34:54.850
You'll have some moments where away from all the noise
00:34:54.850 --> 00:34:56.885
And the hubbub that you would remember that that is
00:34:56.885 --> 00:34:59.588
What christmas is all about.
00:34:59.588 --> 00:35:01.356
There's something about realizing,
00:35:01.356 --> 00:35:03.058
"no, the whole point is,
00:35:03.058 --> 00:35:04.793
Jesus endured incredible aloneness
00:35:04.793 --> 00:35:08.096
On the cross so that you and i are never, ever alone again."
00:35:08.096 --> 00:35:13.335
God is with us.
00:35:13.702 --> 00:35:16.638
(christmas music)
00:35:17.072 --> 00:35:21.543
- one of my favorite christmas memories.
00:35:22.411 --> 00:35:24.213
When i was, when i first came to america,
00:35:24.213 --> 00:35:25.914
I came as a contemporary musician.
00:35:25.914 --> 00:35:28.450
And it was great. and things were going well.
00:35:28.450 --> 00:35:31.220
And then we had this new tour manager.
00:35:31.220 --> 00:35:34.289
The minute we got off the plane from london,
00:35:34.289 --> 00:35:36.258
And i saw the laminated passes, i'm thinking,
00:35:36.258 --> 00:35:38.894
"wonder how much those cost?"
00:35:38.894 --> 00:35:40.662
And we'd- so we do the tour,
00:35:40.662 --> 00:35:42.497
And it's an incredibly successful tour.
00:35:42.497 --> 00:35:44.933
And at the end, he ran away with all the money.
00:35:44.933 --> 00:35:47.636
(all gasping)
00:35:47.636 --> 00:35:48.470
- [person] no.
00:35:48.470 --> 00:35:49.571
- and all my band were sweet guys
00:35:49.571 --> 00:35:50.906
From britain who were married, who had kids.
00:35:50.906 --> 00:35:53.175
- wow.
00:35:53.175 --> 00:35:54.476
- whose families were sacrificing to come.
00:35:54.476 --> 00:35:56.044
And...
00:35:56.044 --> 00:35:57.279
I remember calling him and saying,
00:35:57.279 --> 00:35:59.014
You know, you can't do this!
00:35:59.014 --> 00:36:01.149
You don't believe when he said,
00:36:01.149 --> 00:36:02.551
"sue me! i'll file for bankruptcy
00:36:02.551 --> 00:36:04.453
And i'll start up again tomorrow under a new name!"
00:36:04.453 --> 00:36:06.989
Which he actually did do.
00:36:06.989 --> 00:36:08.790
And i'm like, "okay, lord, what on earth do i do?"
00:36:08.790 --> 00:36:11.994
So i was living in london.
00:36:11.994 --> 00:36:13.428
So i sold my house and i paid all my band.
00:36:13.428 --> 00:36:16.031
Paid the lighting guys, paid the sound guys.
00:36:16.031 --> 00:36:17.699
And moved in with my pastor and his wife for two years.
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:20.402
And their three children.
00:36:20.402 --> 00:36:21.670
And my first christmas there,
00:36:21.670 --> 00:36:23.739
- [person] goodness! - was so incredible.
00:36:23.739 --> 00:36:25.340
'cause i had very, i had very little cash to do anything.
00:36:25.340 --> 00:36:28.944
But we'd got this huge big turkey
00:36:28.944 --> 00:36:30.746
Because it was gonna be like eight of us.
00:36:30.746 --> 00:36:32.748
And we decided we'd cook most of it on christmas eve.
00:36:32.748 --> 00:36:35.417
So we just had a little to do on christmas morning.
00:36:35.417 --> 00:36:38.020
And i remember we came down on christmas morning.
00:36:38.020 --> 00:36:40.522
And tilly, the dog
00:36:40.522 --> 00:36:41.990
That we'd adopted from the (unintelligible) shelter,
00:36:41.990 --> 00:36:44.626
Had pulled the turkey off the table.
00:36:44.626 --> 00:36:46.395
- oh no!
00:36:46.395 --> 00:36:47.496
- she had eaten the entire turkey
00:36:47.496 --> 00:36:49.031
And then brought the entire turkey back up again.
00:36:49.031 --> 00:36:51.700
(all exclaiming)
00:36:51.700 --> 00:36:52.534
- it was...
00:36:52.534 --> 00:36:53.769
And i remember...
00:36:53.769 --> 00:36:55.270
The mess and the confusion.
00:36:55.270 --> 00:36:56.738
- this was like a deacons of a christmas.
00:36:56.738 --> 00:36:58.340
- yeah, yeah.
00:36:58.340 --> 00:36:59.174
- but you know what?
00:36:59.174 --> 00:37:00.542
Sitting there in a place with people who had said,
00:37:00.542 --> 00:37:04.246
"there is room in the inn."
00:37:04.246 --> 00:37:06.048
- yes. yes.
00:37:06.048 --> 00:37:06.882
- come on, come on in.
00:37:06.882 --> 00:37:07.883
- that's it.
00:37:07.883 --> 00:37:08.984
- you know, i know you don't have-
00:37:08.984 --> 00:37:09.785
I know that's all gone.
00:37:09.785 --> 00:37:10.686
But come on, there's room.
00:37:10.686 --> 00:37:12.120
- right.
00:37:12.120 --> 00:37:13.255
- and we sat and we, we had pizza.
00:37:13.255 --> 00:37:14.890
- [person] and it was perfect.
00:37:14.890 --> 00:37:15.891
- and we sat around together.
00:37:15.891 --> 00:37:17.092
- that was perfect.
00:37:17.092 --> 00:37:17.926
- and we thanked jesus.
00:37:17.926 --> 00:37:19.061
That in a world that doesn't work,
00:37:19.061 --> 00:37:21.463
He stepped in.
00:37:21.463 --> 00:37:22.364
- yeah, that's right.
00:37:22.364 --> 00:37:23.799
- so good. - that's right.
00:37:23.799 --> 00:37:25.167
- and do you know what the interesting thing?
00:37:25.167 --> 00:37:26.568
- yes?
00:37:26.568 --> 00:37:27.502
- this is an interesting thing.
00:37:27.502 --> 00:37:28.770
- do you remember estes park when we used to go
00:37:28.770 --> 00:37:30.205
And do the christian artist seminar?
00:37:30.205 --> 00:37:32.174
- yeah! - right!
00:37:32.174 --> 00:37:33.575
- so maybe, i don't know, maybe 10 years later,
00:37:33.575 --> 00:37:35.177
I...
00:37:35.177 --> 00:37:36.445
I'm walking, 'cause i'm teaching a class there.
00:37:36.445 --> 00:37:37.713
And i see him coming across the field.
00:37:37.713 --> 00:37:39.681
And i'm thinking, "wow!"
00:37:39.681 --> 00:37:41.550
- oh!
00:37:41.550 --> 00:37:42.517
- and he sees me and he turns-
00:37:42.517 --> 00:37:44.853
- breaks out into hives!
00:37:44.853 --> 00:37:46.421
- he turns and he goes the other way.
00:37:47.222 --> 00:37:48.890
And i fell to my knees and i thought i had forgiven him.
00:37:48.890 --> 00:37:53.195
And jesus said to me,
00:37:53.695 --> 00:37:54.930
"you know, sheila, here's what you did.
00:37:54.930 --> 00:37:56.832
You gave me your house, but you didn't give me him.
00:37:56.832 --> 00:38:00.969
You didn't forgive him.
00:38:00.969 --> 00:38:02.671
You didn't give me your heart."
00:38:02.671 --> 00:38:04.473
And i actually have it in my purse.
00:38:04.473 --> 00:38:06.241
I realized i was kneeling a little stone.
00:38:06.241 --> 00:38:09.044
I picked it up and i carried it with me.
00:38:09.044 --> 00:38:10.379
I have it to this day.
00:38:10.379 --> 00:38:11.613
- that's awesome, sheila.
00:38:11.613 --> 00:38:13.081
- "let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
00:38:13.081 --> 00:38:15.951
Who knows what was going on in his life?
00:38:15.951 --> 00:38:17.586
- yeah, yeah.
00:38:17.586 --> 00:38:18.720
Who knows. - [sheila] who knows?
00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:19.955
How god will deal with him mercifully
00:38:19.955 --> 00:38:20.956
As god has dealt with me.
00:38:20.956 --> 00:38:22.224
- [person] mercifully. - mercifully.
00:38:22.224 --> 00:38:23.091
- [person] that's right.
00:38:23.091 --> 00:38:24.426
- but it's to your thing of mess, cece.
00:38:24.426 --> 00:38:26.595
It's all the messy places where things have not worked.
00:38:26.595 --> 00:38:29.598
And they didn't go the way i thought.
00:38:29.598 --> 00:38:30.799
- none of us wanna go through it!
00:38:30.799 --> 00:38:31.967
- but christ shows up!
00:38:31.967 --> 00:38:34.035
- you know? - he shows up!
00:38:34.669 --> 00:38:35.771
- and teaches the greatest lessons
00:38:35.771 --> 00:38:37.339
And makes you love him more, which is what it's all about.
00:38:37.339 --> 00:38:40.242
- there is this hand in hand reality of...
00:38:41.143 --> 00:38:43.979
When i understand how much i have been forgiven by god,
00:38:43.979 --> 00:38:48.216
The demand is that i would turn and forgive
00:38:48.216 --> 00:38:51.620
Those who have wronged me.
00:38:51.620 --> 00:38:53.088
It's in the lord's prayer. we see it all throughout.
00:38:53.088 --> 00:38:55.724
And the thing is, with forgiveness,
00:38:55.724 --> 00:38:59.027
I hold myself in bondage when i withhold forgiveness.
00:38:59.027 --> 00:39:02.330
And god wants us free.
00:39:02.330 --> 00:39:04.132
So the way that he's forgiven me,
00:39:04.132 --> 00:39:06.635
The way i can be my fullest, healthiest, freest self
00:39:06.635 --> 00:39:11.072
Is to let go of the others who have wronged me
00:39:11.072 --> 00:39:13.942
In the way that he's forgiven me.
00:39:13.942 --> 00:39:16.244
- the other day, i was encountered
00:39:17.012 --> 00:39:20.282
With a new thing of a new feeling.
00:39:20.282 --> 00:39:23.985
And it's like,
00:39:23.985 --> 00:39:25.287
We call it fruit inspection.
00:39:25.287 --> 00:39:27.422
(all laughing)
00:39:27.422 --> 00:39:28.623
- where's your fruit now?
00:39:28.623 --> 00:39:30.025
- and you don't expect (speaking unintelligibly)
00:39:30.025 --> 00:39:31.693
I think surely i will not have anymore
00:39:31.693 --> 00:39:34.129
(person speaking unintelligibly)
00:39:34.129 --> 00:39:35.363
- and it had to do with something about
00:39:35.363 --> 00:39:36.498
Someone trying to get to my kid.
00:39:36.498 --> 00:39:38.433
It took me a couple days just to kind of catch my breath.
00:39:38.433 --> 00:39:41.770
'cause i have an adult son
00:39:41.770 --> 00:39:43.605
Who can make his own choices.
00:39:43.605 --> 00:39:45.474
But it's like,
00:39:45.474 --> 00:39:47.075
"you have hurt me so bad, you will never be around my kid."
00:39:47.075 --> 00:39:51.613
- right. - [person] you know?
00:39:52.247 --> 00:39:53.181
And it's like every day we grow,
00:39:53.181 --> 00:39:54.683
We're supposed to be growing every day.
00:39:54.683 --> 00:39:56.785
- that's right.
00:39:56.785 --> 00:39:57.886
- but every day there's something
00:39:57.886 --> 00:39:59.588
That god just wants to check.
00:39:59.588 --> 00:40:02.090
God just wants to get out of your life.
00:40:02.090 --> 00:40:04.359
"go, god. you know what?
00:40:04.359 --> 00:40:06.261
Everything's in your hands."
00:40:06.261 --> 00:40:07.696
- that's right.
00:40:07.696 --> 00:40:08.530
- "i forgive again."
00:40:08.530 --> 00:40:09.898
You know?
00:40:09.898 --> 00:40:11.433
"if there's any unforgiveness in my heart, this is new,
00:40:11.433 --> 00:40:14.269
This is a different feeling.
00:40:14.269 --> 00:40:17.138
Take it.
00:40:17.138 --> 00:40:18.440
I give it to you. i hand it over to you."
00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:20.408
- i don't know if this is connecting any dots for y'all.
00:40:20.408 --> 00:40:23.144
But you know, you started us out talking about messes.
00:40:23.144 --> 00:40:26.281
And then we talked about the...
00:40:26.281 --> 00:40:28.583
The shepherds being the messiest in their culture,
00:40:28.583 --> 00:40:31.720
But also as having a reputation for petty thievery.
00:40:31.720 --> 00:40:34.689
And you talked about this person who'd wounded you.
00:40:34.689 --> 00:40:36.825
I thought,
00:40:36.825 --> 00:40:38.360
"i wonder what the people around the shepherds thought."
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:41.363
They're like, "well, he just stole from my garage!"
00:40:41.363 --> 00:40:44.032
(all laughing)
00:40:44.032 --> 00:40:45.634
You know, they might have had to lay down some unforgiveness
00:40:45.634 --> 00:40:48.503
Over the mess that shepherds had caused.
00:40:48.503 --> 00:40:51.640
They weren't just messy people.
00:40:51.640 --> 00:40:52.941
They left a trail of mess behind them.
00:40:52.941 --> 00:40:55.877
And man, isn't christmas a great time to go?
00:40:55.877 --> 00:40:58.847
What you just said really spoke to me.
00:40:58.847 --> 00:41:00.382
- so good.
00:41:00.382 --> 00:41:01.616
- "you have forgiven so much from me."
00:41:01.616 --> 00:41:05.053
"let me pick up this rock.
00:41:05.053 --> 00:41:06.922
I remember he has dealt with me mercifully."
00:41:06.922 --> 00:41:09.558
Boy, what a good kind of almost a pact
00:41:09.558 --> 00:41:12.027
For us to go,
00:41:12.027 --> 00:41:13.395
Who has left a mess in our lives
00:41:13.395 --> 00:41:15.163
That we haven't yet forgiven?
00:41:15.163 --> 00:41:16.431
- ooh! - wow.
00:41:16.431 --> 00:41:17.332
- at christmas. - wow.
00:41:17.332 --> 00:41:18.567
- ooh!
00:41:18.567 --> 00:41:19.568
- to settle that before the lord.
00:41:19.568 --> 00:41:21.069
And it's like,
00:41:21.069 --> 00:41:22.604
That, you know, he so love the world that he sent his son
00:41:22.604 --> 00:41:25.440
To save the world and not condemn it.
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:27.042
- not to condemn it.
00:41:27.042 --> 00:41:27.976
- so certainly when he comes in
00:41:27.976 --> 00:41:29.277
To these places of like,
00:41:29.277 --> 00:41:30.579
"oh, i didn't know i was holding onto that.
00:41:30.579 --> 00:41:32.180
That feels really gross."
00:41:32.180 --> 00:41:33.715
And oh, instead of the push away, you're coming to save me.
00:41:33.715 --> 00:41:36.685
You're coming into areas of unforgiveness
00:41:36.685 --> 00:41:38.853
I didn't know why i was carrying to save me from it.
00:41:38.853 --> 00:41:41.356
You're coming into these places of tension,
00:41:41.356 --> 00:41:44.793
Of pain, of wounded-ness that hasn't been healed yet.
00:41:44.793 --> 00:41:47.896
He doesn't ever do it to condemn.
00:41:47.896 --> 00:41:49.864
He goes right into save it.
00:41:49.864 --> 00:41:52.100
And so the, even when conviction comes.
00:41:52.100 --> 00:41:54.703
You know it's from the lord because there's a graciousness,
00:41:54.703 --> 00:41:57.572
There's a kindness - that's right. yeah.
00:41:57.572 --> 00:41:59.007
- where he, you know?
00:41:59.007 --> 00:42:00.308
He comes to heal the sick.
00:42:00.308 --> 00:42:02.344
So it's like he's not showing up to go,
00:42:02.344 --> 00:42:04.145
"oh, look at- oh no.
00:42:04.145 --> 00:42:05.513
Oh no!
00:42:05.513 --> 00:42:06.781
Look at this! what he got on her hands?"
00:42:06.781 --> 00:42:08.450
He comes in to save! you know?
00:42:08.450 --> 00:42:10.185
And i just think
00:42:10.185 --> 00:42:11.519
Even if now the lord's highlighting anything,
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:13.421
He's coming in to save!
00:42:13.421 --> 00:42:14.789
- not to condemn. - it's not to condemn!
00:42:14.789 --> 00:42:16.958
- that's right.
00:42:16.958 --> 00:42:18.259
- he doesn't come into the mess to, "oh no!
00:42:18.259 --> 00:42:19.427
I'm taking all the notes!"
00:42:19.427 --> 00:42:21.162
It is kind of like, "are you gonna trust me with that too?"
00:42:22.330 --> 00:42:23.798
- right. - right.
00:42:23.798 --> 00:42:24.766
- you know, something to give.
00:42:24.766 --> 00:42:26.101
You know?
00:42:26.101 --> 00:42:27.369
It's trusting in god that god is for me,
00:42:27.369 --> 00:42:30.271
God's not against me, god wants me, god wants to save me!
00:42:30.271 --> 00:42:33.508
God want, you know-
00:42:33.508 --> 00:42:34.676
God wants the good for me.
00:42:34.676 --> 00:42:36.444
And it's like, "are you gonna trust me with that too?"
00:42:36.444 --> 00:42:39.080
"this is new for you. you're gonna trust me." you know?
00:42:39.080 --> 00:42:41.883
Yes. (chuckles)
00:42:41.883 --> 00:42:42.717
- yeah, that's good.
00:42:42.717 --> 00:42:43.685
- i don't want to, but yes.
00:42:43.685 --> 00:42:45.353
- that's good. yeah.
00:42:45.353 --> 00:42:47.122
- understanding one basic, very basic truth
00:42:47.122 --> 00:42:50.959
Is god is for us.
00:42:50.959 --> 00:42:54.295
He's not against us.
00:42:54.295 --> 00:42:55.897
So unless we grow up with this belief that,
00:42:55.897 --> 00:42:57.866
That god's out to get us.
00:42:57.866 --> 00:42:59.901
And he loves us more on the days when we're good
00:42:59.901 --> 00:43:02.103
And the days when we feel we're messed up,
00:43:02.103 --> 00:43:03.772
He doesn't love us as much.
00:43:03.772 --> 00:43:05.473
That is not what scripture tells us.
00:43:05.473 --> 00:43:07.409
You know, there is no condemnation.
00:43:07.409 --> 00:43:09.644
Remember romans chapter 8 verse 1, it says,
00:43:09.644 --> 00:43:11.646
"there is no therefore."
00:43:11.646 --> 00:43:13.448
And the therefore implies something came before it.
00:43:13.448 --> 00:43:15.884
And what came before it was jesus.
00:43:15.884 --> 00:43:17.652
It said, "because of jesus,
00:43:17.652 --> 00:43:19.688
There is no condemnation to those who are in christ jesus."
00:43:19.688 --> 00:43:23.858
God is for you,
00:43:23.858 --> 00:43:25.694
God is with you,
00:43:25.694 --> 00:43:27.062
God loves you.
00:43:27.062 --> 00:43:28.396
- we're talking about him showing up,
00:43:29.197 --> 00:43:30.999
You know, in the messes.
00:43:30.999 --> 00:43:33.234
And when lori was talking about how something new came up,
00:43:33.234 --> 00:43:37.105
You know?
00:43:37.105 --> 00:43:38.540
It's amazing when you really begin to see yourself.
00:43:38.540 --> 00:43:40.608
- i know. - it's true.
00:43:40.608 --> 00:43:41.843
- and you realize you're the biggest mess.
00:43:41.843 --> 00:43:43.344
- yeah. (laughs)
00:43:43.344 --> 00:43:44.946
- and if he can- - thanks!
00:43:44.946 --> 00:43:46.314
(all laughing)
00:43:46.314 --> 00:43:47.482
Thanks for pointing that part out.
00:43:47.482 --> 00:43:49.384
- you know, because you feel like you're there
00:43:49.384 --> 00:43:50.919
And then he'll show you something else.
00:43:50.919 --> 00:43:52.654
- completely!
00:43:52.654 --> 00:43:53.955
- he'll allow you to be tested in another.
00:43:53.955 --> 00:43:55.423
(overlapping chatter)
00:43:55.423 --> 00:43:57.258
It's becoming like him!
00:43:57.258 --> 00:43:58.326
And you're like...
00:43:58.326 --> 00:43:59.260
And i might not say a thing,
00:43:59.260 --> 00:44:01.496
But that holy spirit is saying, "no, no, no.
00:44:01.496 --> 00:44:03.231
That thought is not like-"
00:44:03.231 --> 00:44:04.866
- totally.
00:44:04.866 --> 00:44:06.134
- you know, and it's like, "lord, thank you."
00:44:06.134 --> 00:44:07.969
- [person] no, i know.
00:44:07.969 --> 00:44:09.337
- it's your kindness that leads us to repentance.
00:44:09.337 --> 00:44:10.839
- his kindness!
00:44:10.839 --> 00:44:11.673
His kindness!
00:44:11.673 --> 00:44:13.174
- and when he does come in, i just feel that so strong
00:44:13.174 --> 00:44:15.143
Where it's like, i think we can naturally resist.
00:44:15.143 --> 00:44:17.445
"oh, i don't want-"
00:44:17.445 --> 00:44:18.780
We have this picture of this angry god.
00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:20.815
This god who's disappointed, one who's gonna, you know?
00:44:20.815 --> 00:44:22.784
- no. it's his kindness.
00:44:22.784 --> 00:44:23.718
- swipe or get up and angry.
00:44:23.718 --> 00:44:25.854
And it's just not who we see in this baby in a manger.
00:44:25.854 --> 00:44:29.324
I just feel so moved by the reality
00:44:29.324 --> 00:44:32.327
Of he could have come and said all this stuff,
00:44:32.327 --> 00:44:34.329
But he demonstrated it with his life.
00:44:34.329 --> 00:44:36.231
He went, i mean, down to like the place
00:44:36.231 --> 00:44:39.134
That little newborn body was laid to send us a story,
00:44:39.134 --> 00:44:42.537
A message
00:44:42.537 --> 00:44:44.005
About these things in our life that get so personal.
00:44:44.005 --> 00:44:46.775
And i wanna hide.
00:44:46.775 --> 00:44:49.110
I want that fig leaf again from the father.
00:44:49.110 --> 00:44:51.479
And this baby jesus came to demonstrate he's different.
00:44:51.479 --> 00:44:55.550
He's different than we think.
00:44:55.550 --> 00:44:57.252
And i'm gonna show you by stepping into it
00:44:57.252 --> 00:45:00.288
And demonstrating it.
00:45:00.288 --> 00:45:01.356
And i'm so grateful.
00:45:01.356 --> 00:45:02.991
The lengths that he went to show us the father.
00:45:02.991 --> 00:45:05.360
I'm so thankful. the lengths he went
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:07.162
To validate and to say, "hey, callie,
00:45:07.162 --> 00:45:08.997
In the midst of the pain.
00:45:08.997 --> 00:45:10.799
And when you can't pull it together, even if you wanted to,
00:45:10.799 --> 00:45:14.035
That's fine by me.
00:45:14.035 --> 00:45:15.403
That's why i came. that's what i'm here for.
00:45:15.403 --> 00:45:17.372
I came to save you not to condemn,
00:45:17.372 --> 00:45:20.308
Not to send any other message other than i love you.
00:45:20.308 --> 00:45:24.312
Let me come and cover you. let me make it new."
00:45:24.312 --> 00:45:28.416
- jesus has so many names.
00:45:28.983 --> 00:45:30.451
I love the names of jesus.
00:45:30.451 --> 00:45:31.753
Sometimes i'll pray and i'll just try to say
00:45:31.753 --> 00:45:34.055
All the names of jesus at the beginning of my prayer.
00:45:34.055 --> 00:45:36.257
And the prayer used to last about 15 minutes.
00:45:36.257 --> 00:45:38.626
But yeah, the two christmas names you see a lot for jesus,
00:45:38.626 --> 00:45:41.763
Messiah.
00:45:41.763 --> 00:45:42.964
That means the anointed one, the christ,
00:45:42.964 --> 00:45:45.033
The one who came to save.
00:45:45.033 --> 00:45:46.601
Immanuel is god with us.
00:45:46.601 --> 00:45:50.438
You can't separate those.
00:45:50.438 --> 00:45:52.440
I mean, that's kinda like an m&m.
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:53.942
You don't want the hard candy shell
00:45:53.942 --> 00:45:55.710
Without the peanut in the middle.
00:45:55.710 --> 00:45:57.846
Those- that's just the perfect hypostatic union
00:45:57.846 --> 00:46:01.783
Of jesus christ.
00:46:01.783 --> 00:46:02.884
He is perfectly transcendent.
00:46:02.884 --> 00:46:05.653
He's not our co-pilot, he's not our homeboy.
00:46:05.653 --> 00:46:08.089
He is transcendent, holy god.
00:46:08.089 --> 00:46:10.491
And...
00:46:10.491 --> 00:46:12.126
He condescends to be accessible to us.
00:46:12.126 --> 00:46:15.730
The fancy word for that is the hypostatic union.
00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:18.433
That just means our god is so kind
00:46:18.433 --> 00:46:21.703
That he distills his holiness
00:46:21.703 --> 00:46:24.239
And to the incarnate form of jesus
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:26.474
So that we can actually connect with him.
00:46:26.474 --> 00:46:28.176
What a good god that he made a way for us to know him.
00:46:28.176 --> 00:46:31.212
- as we're wrapping up, i just want to-
00:46:32.080 --> 00:46:33.548
I wanna pray that jesus, i just ask for a revelation
00:46:33.548 --> 00:46:37.418
Of the kind of father that would send his son in that way.
00:46:37.418 --> 00:46:41.256
Father, that you don't stand, you're not angry with us,
00:46:41.256 --> 00:46:44.259
You're not upset with us.
00:46:44.259 --> 00:46:45.827
You love us. you came to save the world to set us free.
00:46:45.827 --> 00:46:50.632
And not just the world, but me and us
00:46:50.632 --> 00:46:53.935
And everyone watching how fiercely personal that is.
00:46:53.935 --> 00:46:56.638
And you did it through your son coming,
00:46:56.638 --> 00:46:59.774
Delivered into a manger just to demonstrate,
00:46:59.774 --> 00:47:03.444
"i'll go anywhere."
00:47:03.444 --> 00:47:05.079
"i'll go to any length to find you, to set you free,
00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:09.150
To clean you up, to make you whole and to show you my love."
00:47:09.150 --> 00:47:13.488
And so god, whether this christmas season,
00:47:13.488 --> 00:47:15.790
It's just pain that people are walking through grief
00:47:15.790 --> 00:47:18.626
Or maybe shame or whatever it is.
00:47:18.626 --> 00:47:21.062
God, i just ask that you give us grace to open up
00:47:21.062 --> 00:47:24.699
And to let immanuel in to do what he does.
00:47:24.699 --> 00:47:28.770
That first responder that comes charging in
00:47:28.770 --> 00:47:32.040
When everybody else wants to leave,
00:47:32.040 --> 00:47:33.808
No one else will be found.
00:47:33.808 --> 00:47:35.410
There's jesus.
00:47:35.410 --> 00:47:36.778
The rubble of our lives,
00:47:36.778 --> 00:47:38.179
Whether we set off the bomb or somebody else did.
00:47:38.179 --> 00:47:40.949
That you are there, patiently combing through.
00:47:40.949 --> 00:47:44.152
Bringing redemption to everything that you touch,
00:47:44.152 --> 00:47:48.022
Everything that you see.
00:47:48.022 --> 00:47:49.490
We open up the rubble of our lives.
00:47:49.490 --> 00:47:52.427
We open up the ash heap of our lives.
00:47:52.427 --> 00:47:55.229
And we say, jesus, would you come and heal?
00:47:55.229 --> 00:47:58.566
Would you come restore? and would you come and save?
00:47:58.566 --> 00:48:02.570
Thank you that you are nothing like i thought you were.
00:48:02.570 --> 00:48:06.040
You are so wonderful, jesus.
00:48:06.040 --> 00:48:09.477
So wonderful.
00:48:09.477 --> 00:48:11.279
And we invite you in as you truly are
00:48:11.279 --> 00:48:14.349
Give us a revelation of the reality
00:48:14.349 --> 00:48:17.652
Of jesus christ this holiday season.
00:48:17.652 --> 00:48:21.255
Thank you.
00:48:21.255 --> 00:48:22.256
In jesus' name.
00:48:22.256 --> 00:48:23.858
Amen. - amen.
00:48:23.858 --> 00:48:25.727
- [presenter] connect with us on social media
00:48:26.661 --> 00:48:27.996
And let us know how our team can pray for you.
00:48:27.996 --> 00:48:30.698
(christmas music)
00:48:30.698 --> 00:48:34.135
- is this a great question actually?
00:48:34.135 --> 00:48:36.004
How can i get through the holidays after losing my mother?
00:48:36.004 --> 00:48:39.207
How can i celebrate jesus while grieving?
00:48:39.207 --> 00:48:44.078
- wow.
00:48:44.312 --> 00:48:45.546
- i think one of the biggest misnomers
00:48:45.546 --> 00:48:46.414
In christian culture
00:48:46.414 --> 00:48:47.915
Is you have to curate your emotions to be a good christian.
00:48:47.915 --> 00:48:50.985
And you only bring the perky parts to church
00:48:50.985 --> 00:48:53.321
Or a small group.
00:48:53.321 --> 00:48:54.489
And that is not biblically defensible.
00:48:54.489 --> 00:48:56.357
If you look even at the psalms,
00:48:56.357 --> 00:48:58.393
All the psalms, p-s-a-l-m-s,
00:48:58.393 --> 00:49:00.461
That's the middle of our bibles.
00:49:00.461 --> 00:49:01.863
Were originally written as psalms
00:49:01.863 --> 00:49:04.232
And cece can sing every one of 'em.
00:49:04.232 --> 00:49:06.768
But what's stunning about the songs
00:49:06.768 --> 00:49:09.203
That god's people wrote is the majority of them are sad.
00:49:09.203 --> 00:49:13.741
Songs (unintelligible)
00:49:13.741 --> 00:49:15.109
- right, right, right.
00:49:15.109 --> 00:49:16.411
- so god not only allows us to bring our grief,
00:49:16.411 --> 00:49:20.114
He says, "i want you to bring your grief to me
00:49:20.114 --> 00:49:22.216
As a sacrifice of worship."
00:49:22.216 --> 00:49:24.385
And so, because jesus, our immanuel,
00:49:24.385 --> 00:49:27.121
Who we focus on at christmas, is an empathetic high priest.
00:49:27.121 --> 00:49:32.093
There's no grief you've experienced
00:49:32.093 --> 00:49:34.062
That he can't empathize with that grief.
00:49:34.062 --> 00:49:37.298
It says that he counts our tears.
00:49:37.298 --> 00:49:40.401
So not one of the tears you're crying over,
00:49:40.401 --> 00:49:42.370
Your mama goes unnoticed by the god
00:49:42.370 --> 00:49:44.305
Who loves us more than we can ask or imagine.
00:49:44.305 --> 00:49:46.974
Grief and celebrating jesus,
00:49:46.974 --> 00:49:49.110
It sounds like it's a juxtaposition.
00:49:49.110 --> 00:49:52.613
- when it goes together.
00:49:52.613 --> 00:49:53.848
- it goes together.
00:49:53.848 --> 00:49:55.249
You actually probably have a sweeter christmas.
00:49:55.249 --> 00:49:58.019
- mm hmm.
00:49:58.019 --> 00:49:59.087
Think so.
00:49:59.087 --> 00:50:00.054
- because you're cognizant of,
00:50:00.054 --> 00:50:01.155
"jesus, i can't make it by myself.
00:50:01.155 --> 00:50:03.157
I need your presence."
00:50:03.157 --> 00:50:04.959
So the truth of christmas may be even
00:50:04.959 --> 00:50:08.429
More obvious to you this year than ever before.
00:50:08.429 --> 00:50:11.766
- and i totally agree.
00:50:11.766 --> 00:50:13.468
- yeah.
00:50:13.468 --> 00:50:14.702
Plus there will be the melody of heaven
00:50:14.702 --> 00:50:17.405
In your christmas this year.
00:50:17.405 --> 00:50:18.840
Because when you have someone there who you love,
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:22.210
Heaven becomes much more tangible.
00:50:22.210 --> 00:50:24.011
- so i would say invite jesus into your grief.
00:50:24.011 --> 00:50:27.815
- amen.
00:50:27.815 --> 00:50:29.350
- invite 'em in. - amen.
00:50:29.350 --> 00:50:31.085
- yeah.
00:50:31.085 --> 00:50:33.855
Thank you for trusting us with that part of your heart.
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:36.190
- [presenter] stream full episodes
00:50:36.958 --> 00:50:38.292
Of "better together" on demand.
00:50:38.292 --> 00:50:40.695
Go to bettertogether.tv
00:50:40.695 --> 00:50:42.497
To stream all of our latest conversations.
00:50:42.497 --> 00:50:45.433
(bright music)
00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:45.800

The Promise of Immanuel - Episode 1123

December 17, 2025 | S7 E1123 | 52:34

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