Better Together

Your Spiritual Legacy | Better Together Episode 1165

May 8, 2026 | S8 E1165 | 50:59

Let your children see your FAITH! Whether you are a mom, grandma, aunt, or mentor—someone is looking up to you. Show them how you trust God in every season. Your example of faith can be the beginning of bold faith in the next generation. | TBN Prayer Line: 714-731-1000

#Mother #Faith #Legacy #Generations #Discipleship #Parenting #Leadership #Family #Testimony #Mentor #Jericho #Dedication/Devotion #Lifestyle #Faithfulness #Community #LaurieCrouch #HollyWagner #DeeDeeFreeman #DebraFileta

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Better Together | Your Spiritual Legacy | Better Together Episode 1165 | May 8, 2026

Laurie crouch: today we honor the women who have shown us how
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To have faith, how to pray, and how to rely on god's word.
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You don't have to have children of your own to leave a spiritual
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Legacy that impacts generation.
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Come on, let's talk about it.
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[music]
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Holly wagner: most of us will have heard the story of rahab,
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And many of the translations that says that she's a
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Prostitute living in jericho, and sometimes that word gets
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Translated innkeeper, prostitute.
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Either way, she has a past, right?
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So this woman, she has a past, right?
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And she's living in jericho, and then when joshua has now been,
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As you mentioned, he's entrusted now with the next generation,
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And so he's taking this generation, he sends out spies,
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Because he learned.
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He's only gonna send out two as opposed to the bunch of them
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That came back saying the wrong thing.
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So he sends out two, and he sends out these two spies, and
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They work their way into jericho, and they work their way
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To rahab's house.
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She says to them, she goes, "i have heard of what your god
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Has done."
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Basically, she's saying, "your god is mighty, and so we know
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What he's planning to do.
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So i don't wanna be, you know, hurt or damaged or whatever.
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So i will protect you here, but you have to do something
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For me."
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And so they said, "okay, so you'll hang that scarlet cord
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Out of your window," which there's a whole message there,
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"but you hang that out of the window, and then when we come,
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We're gonna recognize your house and we won't hurt anybody, but
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You have to stay here.
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You have to stay in this room."
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And so she does, and then she hides them for a bit and then
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Tells them how to escape, and then they escape.
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Okay, so they leave, right?
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They leave, and it takes them three days to they hide out
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Here, and then they have to work their way finally to joshua.
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And when they get to joshua, they basically repeat the words
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She said.
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They know that our god is mighty and worthy, so she put faith in
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Them, right?
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In these spies.
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So they leave, and so they tell joshua this.
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And so then joshua goes, okay, so we're going to begin
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This journey.
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Well, it wasn't a 24-hour journey.
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So they're there, and then they have to cross the river.
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It's a lot of work to get your kids in the car, right?
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So i can't even imagine how long it would have taken to get
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Almost a million people, right?
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At this point in the same direction headed across the
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River, and then they have to take a minute and build the
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Memorial, and they do the memorial.
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And then this is when joshua realizes that there's a
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Generation that is uncircumcised, so now he has to
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Circumcise the generation, and then they have to, you know,
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Offer sacrifices after that.
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So, who knows?
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This could be months since those spies left her.
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Deedee freeman: that's true.
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Holly: and for me, i start thinking about her family's in
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There now, because she wanted to protect her family.
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And can you imagine what they're saying to her?
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Those men, see, you always believe what they say, but
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They're never coming back.
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So i can't imagine the voices that she was hearing, right?
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Okay, so then finally, the israelites show up.
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She's probably going, woo-hoo!
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Like, they're here, and then they do nothing, like for days
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They just...
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And she's going uh-huh.
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And so now i'm sure the family's like what are you talking about?
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This is crazy.
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And then on the seventh day when, you know, she's probably
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At her wits' end and goes i don't know what's happening
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Here, then that's when they do the big shout, and the
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Walls fall.
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But here's the amazing thing, the walls of jericho fall.
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We've all sung the songs, we've all said that, but where did
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She live?
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She lived in the wall in jericho.
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So the wall all fell except for her piece of the wall.
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Her piece of the wall was saved.
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So then she gets out, and then she eventually marries into the
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Children of israel, and we know that she's in the
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Lineage, right?
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So, and i just think about it.
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Why did god send spies to jericho?
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Because it wasn't because he needed to know how to
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Defeat him.
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He knew what he was going to do already.
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Why?
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It wasn't to get strategy.
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Like, i think he went for her.
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He went for her, because there was a woman who was in an
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Environment that was not filled with faith, and yet she
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Had faith.
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She had faith that would ultimately shape generation
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After generation, and in fact her great, great, great grandson
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Is david, who would go up against a giant, and i think he
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Had the faith of his great, great, great,
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Great, great grandmother.
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And so for me, when i think about legacy, that's it.
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So am i living my life in such a way that not just the people i
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Talk to every day that they're inspired or encouraged or
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Faithful, but that generations from now, right?
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That there is a generation who has faith because of how i lived
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My life?
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Because i have faith because of how rahab lived her life, right?
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And then she's commended.
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Like, in hebrews and james both call her, she's in the hall of
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Faith, right?
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They both commend her because of her faith.
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So i just think maybe my faith or lack of it influences
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Generations too.
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Deedee: you know, the scripture is clear on leaving an
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Inheritance for our children, and i know people want to leave
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Their children houses and cars and money and stuff.
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Well, to me, the biggest legacy that you can build in the earth
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Or leave in the earth is a spiritual legacy.
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I would rather my children learn faith than to have money,
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Because faith can produce money, but money cannot produce faith.
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Holly: so, how do i handle seasons of pain?
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Can i handle them with faith?
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How do i handle seasons of waiting?
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Or just seasons where the seven years, you know, where you don't
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Know what to do, because it matters.
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Like, how you handle those matters.
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Or even it's like, how do you handle seasons of favor, right?
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Because we do experience favor.
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It's not all hard.
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Deedee: i mean, but that's what rehab had to do.
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I mean, she experienced a favor, and she experienced a hard time
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For sure.
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Holly: so, can you--are you arrogant in the seasons of
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Favor, thinking you deserve it, or is it the same faith-filled,
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Humble, like in awe of god that, you know, it's even happened.
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So i started thinking like spiritual legacy is not just
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What i believe, but it's how i live.
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So that's kind of become something i say to myself over
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And over.
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So i feel like i don't have the luxury of not using my faith.
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I just don't have that luxury.
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Laurie: and spiritual legacy isn't built through dramatic
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Moments, it's every day being faithful and stepping and forms
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In small consistent pieces.
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I'm always telling women when i have a chance or mothers, show
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Your kids how to do it.
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Show them at home how to walk in faith.
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When everything goes crazy, you're the sane one, you're the
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One going, hmm, i am the adult in the room.
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What do i believe today?
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Who do i say that god is today to my kids?
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Is he our provider?
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Is he our great physician?
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Is he, you know, our stabilizer, our strong rock, our security,
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Our strong tower?
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Who do i say that he is today with the bad diagnosis or
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Whatever it may be?
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And show your kids how to walk by faith, because they can
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Never lose.
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They will always win if they walk by faith.
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Holly: and god finds it, that's why we talk about ruth, right?
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So she's living in a pagan land just like rahab's in a
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Pagan land.
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Do you know why i feel like that family moved there was for her,
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To get her to bring her back to where god was going to use her.
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And so i just feel like god looks for that, right?
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He's looking--
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Laurie: looking throughout the earth for somebody to show
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Himself faithful.
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Deedee: listen, you may have missed seasons of raising your
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Children in the word, but it is never too late.
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I don't even care if they are adults right now.
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It is not too late to instill in them the word of the living god.
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And you may not even know much word, but how about this?
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You start developing a relationship with the father and
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Show them how it looks to stand and to trust god.
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And another thing you could do is to go back and to repent to
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Your children and say, hey, i may not have raised you in the
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Things of god, but i am living the things of god now, so
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Watch me.
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Be that example that they can watch.
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Elyse mahan: i remember hosanna wong said to me once, you're not
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Crazy, you're just first.
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And i think when you haven't seen something, and you're
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Trying to outwork something in your life, you can feel crazy
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'cause you're like, am i crazy?
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Like, i'm trying to do this thing, and i can't do it, or i'm
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Trying to have faith, and i've never seen that in my background
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Before, or my mum wasn't a christian, or my mum wasn't a
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Healthy mother or whatever it might be, but sometimes to walk
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Something out as a first generation when you are gonna
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Begin to change the generations, it can feel crazy making
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Sometimes, because you've never seen it, but you're not, you're
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Not, you're just first, and when you haven't seen something
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Outworked, it's gonna feel different and new.
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And for me, again, just with my context of blended family and
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Being a step-mum, i would get married, and i'm a wife now, but
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I'm also a mum, like just immediately, and it changed
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Everything, but one of the things i just didn't think about
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Early on was my time with god and how my mornings would be
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Just wow, just wow, wow, wow, okay?
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And i would try to have my nice sanitized, aesthetic quiet time
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With god and my coffee, but by the time i poured my coffee,
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Yeah, i got kids crying already because their sister hit them,
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And i'm like oh my goodness, like i need my time with god,
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Like suddenly, you know what i mean?
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And i was like, god, this is like i'm meant to be spending
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Time with you, similar to what you were talking about.
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Like god, i'm trying to do this for you.
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What?
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As if it wasn't me that needed it.
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And for a while, i just would feel like i'm talking to a
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Brick wall.
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I would feel like i'd read the scriptures.
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It was a foreign book to me, and i've been in bible study lover
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My whole life, so i was like what is happening?
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And zara came down one morning, she was just quiet and she's
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Like, "can i do a devotional with you?"
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And my first reaction was like, no, i'm doing my devotional.
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Like, and then i felt this invitation slash moment in time,
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Sliding doors moment, and i was like, let's do it.
00:11:03.652 --> 00:11:06.555
So we do this devotional about the exact same passage that i am
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Reading in genesis, which throwback was the story of
00:11:10.526 --> 00:11:14.597
Hagar, and it's why i love it so much.
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And i'm reading it going i don't know if she's gonna get this.
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She's seven, you know, at the time.
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Cut to this last weekend when i'm preaching at a conference,
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And i look down at my journal, and i go back a couple of pages,
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And i'm like, oh, here's the devotional that i did with zara.
00:11:29.712 --> 00:11:33.482
Genesis chapter 16 verse 13, and we just stopped on, "you are the
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God that sees me."
00:11:38.687 --> 00:11:40.623
And then i had her write--and again, these are the moments
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Where people are like that's so smart.
00:11:43.592 --> 00:11:45.227
It wasn't me, it was just the time i said yes to the holy
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Spirit, who is the genius and knows how to communicate the
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Word of god to little girls, to children.
00:11:52.234 --> 00:11:55.104
And so i had her write, god, thank you that you see me, when
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You walk through these situations in school when she
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Feels alone, when she feels like she's not smart enough but she's
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Too scared to put her hand up to ask for help, and that's where
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God sees her.
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And she just began asking questions about heaven, and her
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Biological mum's grandma had just passed away, and so little
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Kids in their thinking, their brains, she was thinking about
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Heaven and stuff like that, and so i feel like the holy spirit
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Starts giving me these ideas of like it's the best birthday
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Party ever in the whole entire world, and i just go back to
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This at this conference, and then i turn the page, 'cause i
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Had told her she could always come back to this journal, and
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She's written letters.
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And i'm not kidding, here it is, page after page.
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She's just writing letters to god in my journal.
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This one's like, "hi, god, how are you doing?
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I just wanna talk to you, and hey, i love you, and now you're
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Really alive, and i'm on your team.
00:12:47.990 --> 00:12:50.593
I know you have great plans for me and when you smile, i smile.
00:12:50.593 --> 00:12:54.530
This letter is for you, but i just love you, i trust you,
00:12:54.530 --> 00:12:57.566
Lord, i'm so happy that you died for my sins.
00:12:57.566 --> 00:13:00.903
I love you.
00:13:00.903 --> 00:13:02.271
See you soon, god, i love you."
00:13:02.271 --> 00:13:03.606
It just melt me, just melt me in a moment, and i just realized i
00:13:03.606 --> 00:13:07.409
Had actually not heard god speak to me so clearly as when i am
00:13:07.409 --> 00:13:10.145
Walking a child, my child through a devotional when it
00:13:10.145 --> 00:13:14.316
Just made sense to not.
00:13:14.316 --> 00:13:15.651
And you said it, it's these consistent moments.
00:13:15.651 --> 00:13:17.887
It's not when i'm preaching on stages or have a full face of
00:13:17.887 --> 00:13:20.990
Makeup doing "better together," it's when i go home, and am i
00:13:20.990 --> 00:13:24.393
Gonna be interruptible for my little girl who wants to
00:13:24.393 --> 00:13:28.497
Understand this book?
00:13:28.497 --> 00:13:29.865
Debra fileta: that's good.
00:13:29.865 --> 00:13:31.200
Deedee: i mean, but most people don't understand, as well, a
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.736
Devotional doesn't have to be just you sitting and reading and
00:13:33.736 --> 00:13:37.873
Praying, it's been a demonstration of god in the
00:13:37.873 --> 00:13:41.176
Earth to your family.
00:13:41.176 --> 00:13:43.178
You know, i'm devoting my life to serving these kids right
00:13:43.178 --> 00:13:47.116
Here, and that's a devotion, and so how you serve them is how you
00:13:47.116 --> 00:13:52.354
Serve god, you know?
00:13:52.354 --> 00:13:53.856
Elyse: which is, i think, important as well in these
00:13:53.856 --> 00:13:55.724
Mothering seasons when it just feels like i don't feel as
00:13:55.724 --> 00:13:58.928
Spiritual as i used to.
00:13:58.928 --> 00:14:00.663
I don't have the time to sit down, like i said, and have the
00:14:00.663 --> 00:14:03.132
Whole time in the word and the five steps of--
00:14:03.132 --> 00:14:06.869
Deedee: it just looks different.
00:14:06.869 --> 00:14:08.237
Elyse: it looks different, but all of it is.
00:14:08.237 --> 00:14:09.571
Deedee: it's all of the same.
00:14:09.571 --> 00:14:10.940
Elyse: god's in all of it.
00:14:10.940 --> 00:14:12.274
Deedee: in every bit of it.
00:14:12.274 --> 00:14:14.543
Laurie: so i think to all the new christian moms or dads that
00:14:14.543 --> 00:14:19.081
Are kind of like what do i tell my kids?
00:14:19.081 --> 00:14:21.951
Well, if they're little, you start taking them to church and
00:14:21.951 --> 00:14:25.154
Get them in good sunday schools and start doing what the bible
00:14:25.154 --> 00:14:30.225
Tells you to do and raising your kids.
00:14:30.225 --> 00:14:32.461
Get in a community that helps you, that mentors you.
00:14:32.461 --> 00:14:35.030
There's so many things available to us online and so many good
00:14:35.030 --> 00:14:40.069
Teachers, bible teachers, dig into the word of god.
00:14:40.069 --> 00:14:43.072
If you've got children that have left your home and may be
00:14:43.072 --> 00:14:47.009
Looking in at the new mom that's just received who?
00:14:47.009 --> 00:14:52.948
You know what?
00:14:52.948 --> 00:14:54.316
By your actions, god uses actions.
00:14:54.316 --> 00:14:58.187
God uses his transforming power to transform not only your life,
00:14:58.187 --> 00:15:04.994
But then your children see that, and you can be such a beautiful
00:15:04.994 --> 00:15:08.297
Testimony and start praying for those kids.
00:15:08.297 --> 00:15:11.100
Start praying that they see the lord like you see him, that god
00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:14.636
Draws them to him too.
00:15:14.636 --> 00:15:16.238
And i'm standing with you, i'm cheering you on from over here.
00:15:16.238 --> 00:15:19.775
[music]
00:15:19.775 --> 00:15:25.114
Debra: you can start today.
00:15:25.114 --> 00:15:26.982
There is no such thing as not enough when you intentionally
00:15:26.982 --> 00:15:31.687
Begin the process of shining the light of christ in the life of
00:15:31.687 --> 00:15:35.691
Your family today.
00:15:35.691 --> 00:15:37.259
Start with something small, share a bible verse, tell them
00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:40.396
What god is doing, show them how god is at work in your life,
00:15:40.396 --> 00:15:44.767
Because your spiritual legacy can start today.
00:15:44.767 --> 00:15:49.571
Holly: we are better together because of you.
00:15:49.571 --> 00:15:51.707
Deedee: connect with us on social media to ask a question,
00:15:51.707 --> 00:15:55.077
Share prayer requests, and make friends with women from all
00:15:55.077 --> 00:15:58.714
Around the world.
00:15:58.714 --> 00:16:00.082
Holly: let's keep the conversation going.
00:16:00.082 --> 00:16:02.618
Female announcer: let's keep the conversation going.
00:16:02.618 --> 00:16:04.820
You can find the "better together" podcast on your
00:16:04.820 --> 00:16:07.189
Favorite listening platform.
00:16:07.189 --> 00:16:08.991
Subscribe today.
00:16:08.991 --> 00:16:10.993
[music]
00:16:10.993 --> 00:16:13.007
[music]
00:16:13.007 --> 00:16:14.097
[music]
00:16:14.431 --> 00:16:18.868
Elyse: when it comes to teaching our kids about the word of god,
00:16:18.868 --> 00:16:21.104
It can be intimidating, right?
00:16:21.104 --> 00:16:22.439
It can feel like who am i? i
00:16:22.439 --> 00:16:23.840
Don't have a doctorate or a master's
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:25.408
Or even a degree in theology.
00:16:25.408 --> 00:16:27.343
I still feel that way sometimes too.
00:16:27.343 --> 00:16:29.412
I still get overwhelmed at how do i teach the gospel to a
00:16:29.412 --> 00:16:34.417
Little girl who can't remember her a-b-cs?
00:16:34.417 --> 00:16:37.087
How do i make this relative to them when, honestly, i still
00:16:37.087 --> 00:16:41.191
Don't understand it?
00:16:41.191 --> 00:16:42.559
I think you just start with where you're at.
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:44.794
I think you start with the simple truths that we actually
00:16:44.794 --> 00:16:49.532
As adults try to overcomplicate.
00:16:49.532 --> 00:16:51.835
Maybe it is actually coming back to a childlike faith that is the
00:16:51.835 --> 00:16:54.938
Best way that we could ever express the bible to our kids,
00:16:54.938 --> 00:16:58.875
Coming back to that place of don't overcomplicate the
00:16:58.875 --> 00:17:01.344
Simple truth.
00:17:01.344 --> 00:17:02.679
When i was doing a devotional with my eight-year-old zara, i
00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.015
Had been trying to do that devotional earlier in the day,
00:17:06.015 --> 00:17:08.084
And honestly, the pages felt like just black and white text
00:17:08.084 --> 00:17:12.522
On a page, but there was something about simplifying el
00:17:12.522 --> 00:17:15.592
Roi, the god who sees me when it comes to the story of hagar.
00:17:15.592 --> 00:17:20.697
That when i was trying to see it through the eyes of zara and
00:17:20.697 --> 00:17:23.967
Explain it to a little girl, the greatest thing that i had
00:17:23.967 --> 00:17:27.637
Was simplicity.
00:17:27.637 --> 00:17:29.005
The worst thing i could have done was try to complicate it.
00:17:29.005 --> 00:17:31.574
And you know what's crazy?
00:17:31.574 --> 00:17:32.909
Is as i explained it to zara as an eight year old in simple
00:17:32.909 --> 00:17:35.745
Language, i actually understood it better too.
00:17:35.745 --> 00:17:38.014
So, do you need a degree to teach your kids?
00:17:38.014 --> 00:17:40.016
Absolutely not.
00:17:40.016 --> 00:17:41.351
In fact, sometimes i wonder if that's the very barrier that we
00:17:41.351 --> 00:17:45.655
Would need to get through.
00:17:45.655 --> 00:17:47.023
Your kids don't need you to be a scholar, they just need you to
00:17:47.023 --> 00:17:49.759
Be consistent.
00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:51.227
They just need you to do devotionals with them.
00:17:51.227 --> 00:17:54.597
[music]
00:17:55.431 --> 00:17:58.568
Deedee: i thank god for my mom, because my mom was not as
00:17:58.635 --> 00:18:02.138
Knowledgeable of the word, and she said she was a christian,
00:18:02.138 --> 00:18:07.076
But you know, you have to ask, like what kind of christian were
00:18:07.076 --> 00:18:10.180
You, mom?
00:18:10.180 --> 00:18:11.514
But one of the things that i saw in my mom even growing up was
00:18:11.514 --> 00:18:15.051
Her resilience, her determination to, you know, give
00:18:15.051 --> 00:18:20.323
Us a better life.
00:18:20.323 --> 00:18:21.758
And even in tough times, even in, you know, rough seasons of
00:18:21.758 --> 00:18:26.262
Her life, we saw her be steadfast.
00:18:26.262 --> 00:18:29.465
I never heard her pray, never heard her say anything about the
00:18:29.465 --> 00:18:33.636
Bible, the scripture.
00:18:33.636 --> 00:18:35.004
She would make us go to church if we wanted to go to the movies
00:18:35.004 --> 00:18:37.106
On sundays.
00:18:37.106 --> 00:18:38.441
That was the extent of it, but being able to see that spoke
00:18:38.441 --> 00:18:42.946
Volumes to me, and so that's how i'm able right now to be able to
00:18:42.946 --> 00:18:47.684
Stand in tough seasons in my life when i look back.
00:18:47.684 --> 00:18:50.954
You know, because hindsight, 20/20.
00:18:50.954 --> 00:18:52.922
You don't realize it then, you know, that this is ministering
00:18:52.922 --> 00:18:57.360
To you, but when you look back, it's like, oh, i saw my mom do
00:18:57.360 --> 00:19:01.164
That, i saw my mom be strong in that moment, okay, and you pull
00:19:01.164 --> 00:19:06.369
On that, and it's like that's what has built me.
00:19:06.369 --> 00:19:10.373
And so i appreciate those moments that i've had where she
00:19:10.373 --> 00:19:13.977
Didn't even speak a word, but she demonstrated it, you know,
00:19:13.977 --> 00:19:17.280
With her life.
00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:18.748
Debra: we often say that some of the most important lessons are
00:19:18.748 --> 00:19:22.852
Caught, not taught, and i think it's so true.
00:19:22.852 --> 00:19:27.824
You know, i even think back in my own life, what were the
00:19:27.824 --> 00:19:31.127
Things that shaped me the most in the legacy, the
00:19:31.127 --> 00:19:34.530
Spiritual legacy?
00:19:34.530 --> 00:19:35.865
I'm blessed to have a spiritual legacy starting with my
00:19:35.865 --> 00:19:39.435
Grandparents who were serving the lord as traveling
00:19:39.435 --> 00:19:42.605
Evangelists in egypt, and then my parents.
00:19:42.605 --> 00:19:45.875
And, you know, you think about it, and it's not a specific
00:19:45.875 --> 00:19:50.246
Lesson that they sat down and taught me, it's the way that
00:19:50.246 --> 00:19:53.750
They lived their lives.
00:19:53.750 --> 00:19:56.152
And practicing that with the kids, bringing them in to what
00:19:56.152 --> 00:19:59.822
I'm doing in my walk with the lord in ministry in day-to-day
00:19:59.822 --> 00:20:03.493
Life and seeking him and saying let's pray.
00:20:03.493 --> 00:20:06.529
And sometimes you feel like they're not getting it.
00:20:06.529 --> 00:20:10.266
Sometimes it's like how many times are we going to have to
00:20:10.266 --> 00:20:12.335
Do this?
00:20:12.335 --> 00:20:13.670
But it does take time for new patterns to develop.
00:20:13.670 --> 00:20:18.107
You know, i talk to my kids a lot about emotions, because i'm
00:20:18.107 --> 00:20:21.444
A counselor, and emotions are part of how god made us, and
00:20:21.444 --> 00:20:24.681
They're important, they're significant.
00:20:24.681 --> 00:20:27.116
So i'm always talking about emotions and--
00:20:27.116 --> 00:20:29.319
Laurie: how does that make you feel?
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:30.653
Debra: exactly, and my kids know that anger is a
00:20:30.653 --> 00:20:33.323
Secondary emotion.
00:20:33.323 --> 00:20:34.791
There's always something underneath it, and you know,
00:20:34.791 --> 00:20:37.994
Let's try to be more vulnerable.
00:20:37.994 --> 00:20:39.362
I feel inadequate, i feel embarrassed, like, what's really
00:20:39.362 --> 00:20:41.898
Going on?
00:20:41.898 --> 00:20:43.266
So one time we're all in the car, and it was kind of a
00:20:43.266 --> 00:20:46.569
Tense moment.
00:20:46.569 --> 00:20:47.937
You know, everybody's annoyed at everybody, and it was like--
00:20:47.937 --> 00:20:51.174
Laurie: sunday morning, driving to church.
00:20:51.174 --> 00:20:52.508
Debra: it was probably sunday morning, it probably was, and
00:20:52.508 --> 00:20:55.712
You could just feel the tension, you know?
00:20:55.712 --> 00:20:58.481
And so, it was quiet.
00:20:58.481 --> 00:21:00.616
I'm sure there was yelling at some point, and now it's
00:21:00.616 --> 00:21:03.986
Quiet, right?
00:21:03.986 --> 00:21:05.355
It's the calm after the storm.
00:21:05.355 --> 00:21:06.689
And one of my boys goes, "i think we should all go around
00:21:06.689 --> 00:21:10.093
And everyone say how they're feeling."
00:21:10.093 --> 00:21:12.228
And we're like, oh, brother, like really, right now?
00:21:12.228 --> 00:21:14.564
Because, you know, he's learning, and so he asks my
00:21:14.564 --> 00:21:18.501
Husband, "how are you feeling?"
00:21:18.501 --> 00:21:20.403
And my husband's like, "i'm annoyed, i am frustrated."
00:21:20.403 --> 00:21:23.306
And he's like, "what's under that, dad?"
00:21:23.306 --> 00:21:26.709
And he wasn't being sarcastic, he was genuinely--
00:21:26.709 --> 00:21:28.644
Deedee: that's what mom's done.
00:21:28.644 --> 00:21:30.580
Debra: and it broke the ice.
00:21:30.580 --> 00:21:32.248
We all started laughing, but in that moment, it really was like
00:21:32.248 --> 00:21:37.587
These kids are catching.
00:21:37.587 --> 00:21:40.056
They're not--it's caught, not taught.
00:21:40.056 --> 00:21:42.125
And sometimes you feel like you're doing things, the
00:21:42.125 --> 00:21:44.794
Spiritual routines, the verses, the faith, the prayer, and
00:21:44.794 --> 00:21:48.564
You're like is this even going anywhere, this bottomless abyss?
00:21:48.564 --> 00:21:54.103
But i really believe that's where the best seeds are
00:21:54.103 --> 00:21:57.240
Being planted.
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:58.574
Holly: because spiritual legacy always travels through the
00:21:58.574 --> 00:22:00.910
People i invest in, not the platforms i stand on, right?
00:22:00.910 --> 00:22:04.113
Deedee: yeah, that's good.
00:22:04.113 --> 00:22:05.448
Holly: always it's like that way.
00:22:05.448 --> 00:22:08.718
Debra: i think my favorite way of laying a spiritual and
00:22:08.718 --> 00:22:11.621
Biblical foundation for my kids is bringing them into the study
00:22:11.621 --> 00:22:16.392
Of god's word with me.
00:22:16.392 --> 00:22:18.694
We have done bible studies and devotions, but the most
00:22:18.694 --> 00:22:23.466
Important thing has just been simply reading and memorizing
00:22:23.466 --> 00:22:27.236
God's word.
00:22:27.236 --> 00:22:28.571
We'll take a passage of scripture, and we'll memorize it
00:22:28.571 --> 00:22:31.274
As a family and talk through it as a family, not just so that it
00:22:31.274 --> 00:22:34.744
Gets in our head, but also so that it gets in our heart.
00:22:34.744 --> 00:22:37.980
What does this mean?
00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:39.382
What is god trying to reveal to each one of you?
00:22:39.382 --> 00:22:42.885
And why does this passage matter to your life?
00:22:42.885 --> 00:22:46.355
So, start small, grab a verse, one of your favorite verses from
00:22:46.355 --> 00:22:50.159
Scripture, and start memorizing it with your kids and watch that
00:22:50.159 --> 00:22:54.363
Biblical foundation have an impact on their life.
00:22:54.363 --> 00:22:58.868
Laurie: children internalize all the things that they observe.
00:22:58.868 --> 00:23:02.071
With instruction should come example, and i think hypocrisy
00:23:02.071 --> 00:23:06.576
Is one of the most devastating, eroding of legacy that there
00:23:06.576 --> 00:23:11.547
Could possibly be.
00:23:11.547 --> 00:23:12.915
My husband's parents grew up, paul, paul crouch senior, grew
00:23:12.915 --> 00:23:17.353
Up in egypt on the mission field as a little boy speaking arabic,
00:23:17.353 --> 00:23:22.091
But that legacy of faith that it's easy for--it's almost easy
00:23:22.091 --> 00:23:27.463
For me to have faith because i saw my parents have faith, i saw
00:23:27.463 --> 00:23:30.833
My in-laws have faith, and now when you look at things that we
00:23:30.833 --> 00:23:35.638
Come up against, it's like, girl, where's your faith at?
00:23:35.638 --> 00:23:39.041
You know, i've seen it--only seen it for the last 60 years of
00:23:39.041 --> 00:23:43.079
My life.
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:44.413
You know, faith in action, walking through things that it
00:23:44.413 --> 00:23:46.983
Came easy for me, if you can say easy.
00:23:46.983 --> 00:23:51.787
Deedee: it was normal for you.
00:23:51.787 --> 00:23:53.155
Laurie: it was normal for me, thank you.
00:23:53.155 --> 00:23:54.490
And so, but like we say, the bible says every generation will
00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:59.428
Walk by faith.
00:23:59.428 --> 00:24:01.297
They had their own experience and faith, and now seeing my
00:24:01.297 --> 00:24:04.867
Boys at 30-some years old start repeating things that i've said
00:24:04.867 --> 00:24:09.472
For years, it's like, oh, he's been listening, you know?
00:24:09.472 --> 00:24:13.509
He's been--it rubbed off on them, and all of a sudden i see
00:24:13.509 --> 00:24:17.480
Myself, or i see my daddy in my kids, and i'm like going, all
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:23.185
Right, you know?
00:24:23.185 --> 00:24:24.854
It's a beautiful thing, but even if we didn't have that, you can
00:24:24.854 --> 00:24:27.924
Start it with that, those that are not biological mothers, it
00:24:27.924 --> 00:24:32.562
Really doesn't matter.
00:24:32.562 --> 00:24:34.196
You can have the hollies in your life like we have right here.
00:24:34.196 --> 00:24:38.634
Holly's like a mother to me.
00:24:38.634 --> 00:24:40.970
Deedee: holly's like a mother to me too.
00:24:40.970 --> 00:24:43.539
Elyse: holly's all of our mother.
00:24:43.539 --> 00:24:45.308
Holly: but, i mean, we laugh, but it's kind of the heart.
00:24:45.308 --> 00:24:48.778
Like, i just feel like that's part of who that i'm supposed to
00:24:48.778 --> 00:24:52.815
Be, right?
00:24:52.815 --> 00:24:54.183
And so, i feel like we are all supposed to be that, you know?
00:24:54.183 --> 00:24:57.119
Like titus challenges, it says older woman, basically your job
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.489
Is the younger woman.
00:25:00.489 --> 00:25:01.857
And i remember when i first read that 1,000 years ago, i remember
00:25:01.857 --> 00:25:05.161
Thinking, great, when i get to be 106, i'll be the older woman,
00:25:05.161 --> 00:25:08.230
And then i'll help all those young people.
00:25:08.230 --> 00:25:10.232
And i was probably 30 when it first jumped out at me and god
00:25:10.232 --> 00:25:14.203
Said to me, "you're old now, because there's somebody younger
00:25:14.203 --> 00:25:17.406
Than you that needs to know what you know."
00:25:17.406 --> 00:25:20.276
Laurie: that's the scripture that "better together" is based
00:25:20.276 --> 00:25:22.311
On right there.
00:25:22.311 --> 00:25:23.779
Debra: you're old enough already.
00:25:23.779 --> 00:25:25.147
Holly: so, i feel like at any season in life, i am an
00:25:25.147 --> 00:25:28.684
Older woman.
00:25:28.684 --> 00:25:30.052
So if you're--and the older i get, the more younger women are
00:25:30.052 --> 00:25:32.755
Underneath me.
00:25:32.755 --> 00:25:34.123
But i feel like there is a responsibility that we have.
00:25:34.123 --> 00:25:36.892
And so our--like we all have been blessed with biological
00:25:36.892 --> 00:25:41.197
Children that we got to raise and invest in.
00:25:41.197 --> 00:25:43.899
And now some of us with the grandkids, and which is great,
00:25:43.899 --> 00:25:46.902
But there are millions who haven't.
00:25:46.902 --> 00:25:50.306
And so i just feel like that that's what the role that can be
00:25:50.306 --> 00:25:53.843
Assumed is that every woman can be that mother.
00:25:53.843 --> 00:25:57.847
Deedee: so, even if you want children, and you don't have
00:25:57.847 --> 00:26:00.650
Them, you could still be a mother to some, because that
00:26:00.650 --> 00:26:03.886
Scripture over there in titus, it didn't say just to your
00:26:03.886 --> 00:26:07.590
Younger children, it says the older women to the
00:26:07.590 --> 00:26:11.160
Younger women.
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:12.495
And so we all have a responsibility and a role.
00:26:12.495 --> 00:26:15.064
I have--my sister-in-law been married the same as i have, 42
00:26:15.064 --> 00:26:20.202
Years, 43 years, i think, and they've never had children, but
00:26:20.202 --> 00:26:23.673
You would not know that.
00:26:23.673 --> 00:26:25.741
They are always with someone.
00:26:25.741 --> 00:26:27.143
And now they have like some girls that they have really
00:26:27.143 --> 00:26:30.379
Embraced as their own, and now their children are calling them
00:26:30.379 --> 00:26:33.749
Grandma, you know, granddad, and so it's possible to still have
00:26:33.749 --> 00:26:38.587
That same satisfaction and connection if you will allow it,
00:26:38.587 --> 00:26:43.325
If you'll open up your heart to it, but a lot of times people
00:26:43.325 --> 00:26:46.729
Don't, because again, they wanna see it work out their way
00:26:46.729 --> 00:26:50.266
Opposed to how god wants to work it out.
00:26:50.266 --> 00:26:54.103
Debra: one thing i love about spiritual moms is that it gives
00:26:54.103 --> 00:26:57.406
You the opportunity to be exposed to so many different
00:26:57.406 --> 00:27:01.243
Personality types.
00:27:01.243 --> 00:27:02.645
Even as you've seen on the show today, we've got such different
00:27:02.645 --> 00:27:06.682
Personalities and ways of communicating and interacting,
00:27:06.682 --> 00:27:11.020
And i love that visual.
00:27:11.020 --> 00:27:13.656
You get to see the body of christ in all of its different
00:27:13.656 --> 00:27:16.826
Forms and all of the unique personalities.
00:27:16.826 --> 00:27:19.495
Maybe something that one person says doesn't resonate with you
00:27:19.495 --> 00:27:23.099
The way that someone else says it, and this is why having
00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:26.435
Spiritual moms in our life is so important.
00:27:26.435 --> 00:27:30.272
We get to see god's word, we get to see god's truth, we get to
00:27:30.272 --> 00:27:34.009
See a life of faith lived out in so many different faces and
00:27:34.009 --> 00:27:38.180
Personalities, and that is the beautiful thing about the body
00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:42.351
Of jesus.
00:27:42.351 --> 00:27:44.286
Holly: when i was young, i lived out of the country most of my
00:27:44.286 --> 00:27:46.922
Life, but before we moved out of the country for my kindergarten
00:27:46.922 --> 00:27:51.160
Year, we were living in the united states, and my mom--i
00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:55.965
Feel like this is probably where i learned, like, subconsciously
00:27:55.965 --> 00:27:58.634
Some of this.
00:27:58.634 --> 00:27:59.969
So this would have been in the '60s, so she brought in unwed
00:27:59.969 --> 00:28:04.306
Moms that lived with us until they had their baby, right?
00:28:04.306 --> 00:28:08.911
And so i feel like i saw that in action, and so i think that's a
00:28:08.911 --> 00:28:15.351
Simple thing to do, because there are plenty of young women
00:28:15.351 --> 00:28:17.653
Who just--
00:28:17.653 --> 00:28:18.988
And for me, i guess because of what i'm doing right now and
00:28:18.988 --> 00:28:21.824
Leading and mentoring, you know, young women, so many of them did
00:28:21.824 --> 00:28:25.461
Not have moms that had a healthy relationship.
00:28:25.461 --> 00:28:28.898
There's real fracture and broken--
00:28:28.898 --> 00:28:31.267
I mean, not all of it was extreme abuse, but there are
00:28:31.267 --> 00:28:33.502
Some definite fractures and mother wounds.
00:28:33.502 --> 00:28:36.138
There are some real mother wounds now.
00:28:36.138 --> 00:28:38.574
And so i feel like in many ways i can step in that gap, but we
00:28:38.574 --> 00:28:41.744
All can't is my point.
00:28:41.744 --> 00:28:43.212
It's like there's so many young women that just need somebody to
00:28:43.212 --> 00:28:48.450
Be that, take that space for a minute, you know, hold that
00:28:48.450 --> 00:28:51.520
Space, and it's possible.
00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:53.422
Deedee: it's possible.
00:28:53.422 --> 00:28:54.757
I mean, i thank god for my spiritual mom, betty price.
00:28:54.757 --> 00:28:57.693
I mean, my mom wasn't that spiritual part, but to be able
00:28:57.693 --> 00:29:02.364
To have her to, you know, to see how she prayed or believed god
00:29:02.364 --> 00:29:07.736
For her family.
00:29:07.736 --> 00:29:09.104
Holly: she was a fireball.
00:29:09.104 --> 00:29:10.439
Deedee: yeah, she was a fireball, and she still is, and
00:29:10.439 --> 00:29:11.974
So to be able to see that, it was powerful for me, it gave me
00:29:11.974 --> 00:29:18.514
The spiritual component or the balance that i needed in my
00:29:18.514 --> 00:29:21.817
Own life.
00:29:21.817 --> 00:29:23.886
Holly: many of you perhaps are not biological moms, and i just
00:29:23.886 --> 00:29:28.157
Wanna encourage you that that is--that's not the parameter of
00:29:28.157 --> 00:29:32.595
Being a mother.
00:29:32.595 --> 00:29:33.963
So i wanna encourage you to actually open your eyes and see
00:29:33.963 --> 00:29:36.699
That young girl or that younger woman in your circle of
00:29:36.699 --> 00:29:40.002
Influence who needs to know what you know.
00:29:40.002 --> 00:29:42.171
Some of you have come through-- maybe you've been a single
00:29:42.171 --> 00:29:46.575
Parent and you've raised your children, you know,
00:29:46.575 --> 00:29:50.079
Into adulthood.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.081
Well, i promise you that there is a younger single parent mom
00:29:52.081 --> 00:29:55.484
Who is freaking out.
00:29:55.484 --> 00:29:56.852
She needs to know what you know.
00:29:56.852 --> 00:29:58.387
Or maybe those of you, you don't even have kids, but what you've
00:29:58.387 --> 00:30:01.023
Done is you've built a business.
00:30:01.023 --> 00:30:02.391
Well, what i know is that there's a young woman who needs
00:30:02.391 --> 00:30:04.493
To know what you know.
00:30:04.493 --> 00:30:05.861
How do you do that?
00:30:05.861 --> 00:30:07.196
Or maybe you've navigated or come out of a really
00:30:07.196 --> 00:30:10.299
Abusive situation.
00:30:10.299 --> 00:30:11.667
Well, what i know in your circle of influence is that there is a
00:30:11.667 --> 00:30:14.436
Young woman who's stuck in the middle of it.
00:30:14.436 --> 00:30:16.605
She needs to know what you know.
00:30:16.605 --> 00:30:18.307
And so i think that god puts women in our lives all over,
00:30:18.307 --> 00:30:23.212
Younger women who need to know what we know, who need to know
00:30:23.212 --> 00:30:26.548
How to walk with faith in the hard times, who need to know how
00:30:26.548 --> 00:30:29.652
To have patience and how to wait through confusing seasons.
00:30:29.652 --> 00:30:34.223
And so, keep your eyes open, because i do know that there is
00:30:34.223 --> 00:30:38.394
A younger woman out there who needs the wisdom that you
00:30:38.394 --> 00:30:43.132
Can bring.
00:30:43.132 --> 00:30:44.934
Holly: what are the bible stories that you were told?
00:30:44.934 --> 00:30:47.770
We all were told some as little kids.
00:30:47.770 --> 00:30:49.305
What are the ones that stick out, that were resonated to you?
00:30:49.305 --> 00:30:53.042
Deedee: can i go first?
00:30:53.042 --> 00:30:54.376
Holly: you please go first.
00:30:54.376 --> 00:30:55.744
Deedee: i didn't have one.
00:30:55.744 --> 00:30:57.079
I didn't.
00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:58.447
No one ever told me bible stories.
00:30:58.447 --> 00:30:59.782
I mean, i used to go to sunday school or whatever, you know,
00:30:59.782 --> 00:31:01.750
Church, but i went there just for the crackers and the juice
00:31:01.750 --> 00:31:04.687
And stuff.
00:31:04.687 --> 00:31:06.155
Holly: the snacks.
00:31:06.155 --> 00:31:07.489
Deedee: the snacks.
00:31:07.489 --> 00:31:08.857
Honestly, i didn't grow up with hearing bible stories, and so i
00:31:08.857 --> 00:31:12.594
Thank god for where my life is today not being brought up in
00:31:12.594 --> 00:31:17.399
That environment, and to be able to be and do what i'm doing
00:31:17.399 --> 00:31:21.503
Today is is amazing.
00:31:21.503 --> 00:31:23.172
So, regardless of your past, regardless of how you were
00:31:23.172 --> 00:31:27.076
Brought up, if you would trust god, whether your mother was
00:31:27.076 --> 00:31:30.245
There or not, god will give you examples, place people in your
00:31:30.245 --> 00:31:34.583
Path that will show you that life could be better.
00:31:34.583 --> 00:31:37.586
Holly: just you even sharing that is very freeing.
00:31:37.586 --> 00:31:40.122
Freeing, because i think we all have this picture of what we
00:31:40.122 --> 00:31:43.525
Think living a spiritual life is or having that--
00:31:43.525 --> 00:31:47.296
Like, you came from legacies, you came from legacies, it's
00:31:47.296 --> 00:31:50.766
Just like, okay that's a unique thing, and praise god for that.
00:31:50.766 --> 00:31:54.269
Like, there's a probably gratitude in your heart that's
00:31:54.269 --> 00:31:56.705
Amazing, and we can hear your favorite bible stories.
00:31:56.705 --> 00:31:59.241
But what's great is that you didn't, and so--and still
00:31:59.241 --> 00:32:04.146
God, right?
00:32:04.146 --> 00:32:05.647
And still god.
00:32:05.647 --> 00:32:06.982
Deedee: and still god.
00:32:06.982 --> 00:32:08.317
Holly: he just went through all of it and watched you, went,
00:32:08.317 --> 00:32:09.918
Okay, because he had a plan for your life.
00:32:09.918 --> 00:32:11.387
So, but at the same time, you did it different with your kids.
00:32:11.387 --> 00:32:14.590
Deedee: yes, totally.
00:32:14.590 --> 00:32:16.558
Debra: legacies don't happen by accident, and even coming from
00:32:16.558 --> 00:32:20.262
The families that we came from, legacy takes intentionality to
00:32:20.262 --> 00:32:25.034
Be passed down from one generation to the next,
00:32:25.034 --> 00:32:28.237
You know?
00:32:28.237 --> 00:32:29.571
And it's not about the bible stories we were taught, because
00:32:29.571 --> 00:32:32.107
I was taught bible stories, but i'll tell you, that's not what
00:32:32.107 --> 00:32:34.810
Sticks in my head.
00:32:34.810 --> 00:32:36.278
What sticks in my head was seeing my grandma who's
00:32:36.278 --> 00:32:40.049
Illiterate memorize scripture, pray, believe god for big
00:32:40.049 --> 00:32:44.987
Things, watching my parents walk through seasons of intense
00:32:44.987 --> 00:32:50.259
Suffering, and it's like how can people survive this and hold on
00:32:50.259 --> 00:32:54.930
To their faith, you know?
00:32:54.930 --> 00:32:57.232
Like, the things that stick out in my mind are the life lived in
00:32:57.232 --> 00:33:03.539
Jesus, not the sermons preached for jesus, you know?
00:33:03.539 --> 00:33:07.309
Elyse: the first memory i had was megan dredge.
00:33:07.309 --> 00:33:09.711
Megan was one of my first kids' pastors, and i loved her, like i
00:33:09.711 --> 00:33:15.551
Was obsessed.
00:33:15.551 --> 00:33:16.885
I wanted to be megan when i grew up.
00:33:16.885 --> 00:33:18.253
Megan was always color coordinated, and she created
00:33:18.253 --> 00:33:20.689
These fun days and sundays and would let me come in and help
00:33:20.689 --> 00:33:23.492
Her, and my very first, like, serving position in church was
00:33:23.492 --> 00:33:26.762
In kids, and cut to 20 years later when i'm walking through a
00:33:26.762 --> 00:33:31.467
Divorce, of course, who do i see but megan dredge at a women's
00:33:31.467 --> 00:33:35.737
Conference in australia that i happened to be at.
00:33:35.737 --> 00:33:38.540
We sit down, have dinner together before the night
00:33:38.540 --> 00:33:41.543
Session, and she's like, "elyse, you've got this, you can
00:33:41.543 --> 00:33:44.379
Do this."
00:33:44.379 --> 00:33:45.714
Cut to i come back to los angeles after the divorce, and
00:33:45.714 --> 00:33:48.317
I'm in my office at oasis one day, and two packages get
00:33:48.317 --> 00:33:53.288
Delivered to my desk.
00:33:53.288 --> 00:33:54.890
One of them was my divorce papers finalized that i
00:33:54.890 --> 00:33:58.093
Opened up.
00:33:58.093 --> 00:33:59.461
The other package, i opened it, and there were these three
00:33:59.461 --> 00:34:02.664
Bracelets, all silver, one gold, one rose gold, because--that
00:34:02.664 --> 00:34:07.002
Said say it messy, keep it classy, which was my motto at
00:34:07.002 --> 00:34:13.375
The time that i had shared with megan with this card that she
00:34:13.375 --> 00:34:16.612
Had written me saying, "elyse, you've got this, i'm praying
00:34:16.612 --> 00:34:20.249
For you.
00:34:20.249 --> 00:34:21.583
God's got you, keep it classy, always cheering you on,
00:34:21.583 --> 00:34:25.254
Love megan."
00:34:25.254 --> 00:34:26.788
My kids' pastor is what comes to mind, and she's the one that
00:34:26.788 --> 00:34:30.225
Told me stories.
00:34:30.225 --> 00:34:31.593
She's the one that built that foundation, but i don't remember
00:34:31.593 --> 00:34:34.296
The foundation that she built, i remember who she was.
00:34:34.296 --> 00:34:37.266
I remember my mum at the kitchen table, every single day i would
00:34:37.266 --> 00:34:40.402
Come down for school, reading her bible, journaling.
00:34:40.402 --> 00:34:43.005
I remember my dad in his chair every single night reading his
00:34:43.005 --> 00:34:46.708
Bible in the morning, having his palm pilot with the little
00:34:46.708 --> 00:34:49.111
Stylus thingy, writing down stuff, going on prayer walks.
00:34:49.111 --> 00:34:52.748
And so when you said that, i'm like, you're right.
00:34:52.748 --> 00:34:55.617
I grew up, and i learnt the bible, and i know the stories
00:34:55.617 --> 00:34:59.955
Now, because i've studied it, but would i have studied it if i
00:34:59.955 --> 00:35:03.692
Didn't remember the people?
00:35:03.692 --> 00:35:05.994
And that's the legacy.
00:35:05.994 --> 00:35:07.329
Laurie: that's the legacy.
00:35:07.329 --> 00:35:09.731
Elyse: i thought that a spiritual legacy was the ways we
00:35:09.731 --> 00:35:13.702
Pray over each other, the memory verses we give each other, the
00:35:13.702 --> 00:35:16.905
Bible stories we tell each other, and it was in real time
00:35:16.905 --> 00:35:19.508
Today in that conversation where i realized, man, the things i
00:35:19.508 --> 00:35:24.213
Remember and not the words that were written down or the words
00:35:24.213 --> 00:35:29.284
Spoken to me, but it was the everyday in between.
00:35:29.284 --> 00:35:33.555
So when i look at holly, it was the moments where she showed up.
00:35:33.555 --> 00:35:36.992
It was the moments where i watched her in seasons of storms
00:35:36.992 --> 00:35:42.130
Keep her peace, keep her still.
00:35:42.130 --> 00:35:44.066
It was the moments where i've seen her reflect, unconvicting
00:35:44.066 --> 00:35:48.604
Moments she'd had with the holy spirit when she apologized
00:35:48.604 --> 00:35:52.140
For things.
00:35:52.140 --> 00:35:53.475
I couldn't believe someone like her would admit humanity.
00:35:53.475 --> 00:35:57.112
I didn't think you could do that if you're in ministry.
00:35:57.112 --> 00:35:59.114
I learned that from her.
00:35:59.114 --> 00:36:00.449
I learnt what consistent kindness looked like behind
00:36:00.449 --> 00:36:03.919
The scenes.
00:36:03.919 --> 00:36:05.287
I learnt what standing on the true promises of god looked
00:36:05.287 --> 00:36:08.957
Like, fighting not just for your own place, but for what he said.
00:36:08.957 --> 00:36:13.495
I've learnt that from her, and i have learned what it looks like
00:36:13.495 --> 00:36:16.865
To show up for the people that god's called us to, whether they
00:36:16.865 --> 00:36:20.636
Can do anything for you or not.
00:36:20.636 --> 00:36:23.905
She showed up for me and pursued me in seasons where i was trying
00:36:23.905 --> 00:36:27.876
To isolate, she wouldn't let me.
00:36:27.876 --> 00:36:31.346
And she taught me more than i think i even realize.
00:36:31.346 --> 00:36:36.051
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00:36:36.051 --> 00:36:38.353
Together" updates.
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[music]
00:36:48.264 --> 00:36:50.733
Holly: jeremiah 31:21 says, "set up guideposts, put up road
00:36:50.733 --> 00:36:55.371
Signs, mark well the path by which you came."
00:36:55.371 --> 00:36:58.408
And so for me, that's the whole framing of how i want to live
00:36:58.408 --> 00:37:01.811
My life.
00:37:01.811 --> 00:37:03.146
It's like set up those guideposts, mark that path,
00:37:03.146 --> 00:37:06.449
Because there's a generation coming behind who are not so
00:37:06.449 --> 00:37:09.752
Much hearing what you say, but they're watching what you do.
00:37:09.752 --> 00:37:13.022
They're watching how you handle heartbreak and betrayal.
00:37:13.022 --> 00:37:16.025
So i don't have the luxury to abandon faith because of it.
00:37:16.025 --> 00:37:21.097
So i have to keep taking one step in front of the other,
00:37:21.097 --> 00:37:24.133
Because i'm marking my trail, and i can mark it with faith and
00:37:24.133 --> 00:37:27.036
Hope and confidence in god, or i can mark it with bitterness and
00:37:27.036 --> 00:37:30.573
Anger and frustration, and i've been very tempted to do that
00:37:30.573 --> 00:37:34.644
Many a time, but i have the choice, right?
00:37:34.644 --> 00:37:36.813
How i'm going to mark the trail that god has entrusted me
00:37:36.813 --> 00:37:39.215
To walk.
00:37:39.215 --> 00:37:40.550
Laurie: it says to remind and to tell your children and your
00:37:40.550 --> 00:37:43.453
Children's children about what god did.
00:37:43.453 --> 00:37:47.123
My brother and i were involved in all the prayers, all the
00:37:47.123 --> 00:37:51.160
Praying at the house, you know?
00:37:51.160 --> 00:37:52.929
Now, my dad did a lot of praying by himself, but when we were
00:37:52.929 --> 00:37:56.065
Asking god for things, we were very involved in what we were
00:37:56.065 --> 00:38:00.336
Praying for, you know?
00:38:00.336 --> 00:38:01.671
And i always remember i knew i wanted to be in the ministry, i
00:38:01.671 --> 00:38:04.474
Knew i was gonna go into ministry, but i was not going to
00:38:04.474 --> 00:38:09.078
Be a pastor's wife like my mother.
00:38:09.078 --> 00:38:12.515
She served so well my dad and our church and just
00:38:12.515 --> 00:38:18.621
Constantly serving.
00:38:18.621 --> 00:38:20.156
That's what she did, people over all the time, her feeding, her
00:38:20.156 --> 00:38:25.061
Just that consistency, and i thought i don't wanna have to be
00:38:25.061 --> 00:38:31.367
A pastor's wife like my mom, and i didn't know what that
00:38:31.367 --> 00:38:34.470
Looked like.
00:38:34.470 --> 00:38:35.838
And so even when i got older, in my early twenties, i had met
00:38:35.838 --> 00:38:42.478
Matt, but we hadn't gotten married yet, and i was like i
00:38:42.478 --> 00:38:46.516
Know i'm supposed to be in the ministry, but i don't know what
00:38:46.516 --> 00:38:49.218
It looks like.
00:38:49.218 --> 00:38:51.254
I love to sing, and i did sing, but i wasn't a good solo artist,
00:38:51.254 --> 00:38:55.858
So can't sing, and i'm not a speaker, you know?
00:38:55.858 --> 00:39:00.096
So what does that--so i was always prepared.
00:39:00.096 --> 00:39:02.999
My dad made sure that we were prepared for ministry, however
00:39:02.999 --> 00:39:07.770
You do that, but i just know that hearing the faithfulness of
00:39:07.770 --> 00:39:11.307
God throughout the years and then paul and jan and telling
00:39:11.307 --> 00:39:14.410
The stories of the miracles that god did for tbn for 53 years of
00:39:14.410 --> 00:39:19.415
Miracles, that little couple in la hear the voice of god at the
00:39:19.415 --> 00:39:23.986
Same time, and dad looks at mom and says, "you're not gonna
00:39:23.986 --> 00:39:29.892
Believe what the lord just spoke to me."
00:39:29.892 --> 00:39:31.260
She says, "no, i did.
00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:32.762
I heard him too.
00:39:32.762 --> 00:39:34.096
He's released us from our work here at our jobs at a
00:39:34.096 --> 00:39:36.365
Radio station."
00:39:36.365 --> 00:39:37.834
And they did, and then, you know, all of a sudden, dad
00:39:37.834 --> 00:39:41.337
Didn't go to work, and so matt was like, you know, he's like
00:39:41.337 --> 00:39:44.607
Nine or ten, and his dad's just home all the time, and then the
00:39:44.607 --> 00:39:47.510
Next word a few months later to call a tv station owner in la.
00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:53.149
He says, "i've already called that guy, he said the station's
00:39:53.149 --> 00:39:56.352
Not for sale," and he said, "i want you to call him, and i want
00:39:56.352 --> 00:39:59.622
You to call now."
00:39:59.622 --> 00:40:00.990
So, he called, and the guy was in a business meeting, and then
00:40:00.990 --> 00:40:04.160
The lady on the phone goes, you know what?
00:40:04.160 --> 00:40:05.628
I think i hear him coming down the hall.
00:40:05.628 --> 00:40:07.096
Hang on one second, and hands the phone to angel lerma, and
00:40:07.096 --> 00:40:12.802
Papa says, "angel," he says, "i know that i talked to you a few
00:40:12.802 --> 00:40:16.305
Months ago, and you weren't selling channel 40 in
00:40:16.305 --> 00:40:18.508
Los angeles.
00:40:18.508 --> 00:40:19.876
I'm just wondering if anything's changed."
00:40:19.876 --> 00:40:21.677
And he said, "paul, has someone just called you?"
00:40:21.677 --> 00:40:24.647
He said, "i just stepped out of a board meeting, and we've just
00:40:24.647 --> 00:40:27.083
Decided to sell this station."
00:40:27.083 --> 00:40:29.151
And it was immediately they had just found out that we're
00:40:29.151 --> 00:40:32.722
Selling it.
00:40:32.722 --> 00:40:34.056
He said, "well, based on that, can i see you?"
00:40:34.056 --> 00:40:35.591
And so from then, it's following the voice of the lord.
00:40:35.591 --> 00:40:39.562
That's how you do the impossible, right?
00:40:39.562 --> 00:40:41.964
So, when god speaks to you, and you actually, okay, step out in
00:40:41.964 --> 00:40:45.902
Faith and go ahead and obey.
00:40:45.902 --> 00:40:48.104
So those miracles, and now the largest voice in america, in the
00:40:48.104 --> 00:40:52.141
World for christian television.
00:40:52.141 --> 00:40:54.810
Look what god has done.
00:40:54.810 --> 00:40:56.712
And so, when you start telling your kids where you came from,
00:40:56.712 --> 00:41:01.551
Where god has brought you, and what he has done for you through
00:41:01.551 --> 00:41:07.123
All the hard times, through all the seasons of life, your
00:41:07.123 --> 00:41:10.226
Children watch it all.
00:41:10.226 --> 00:41:11.694
They see you now dealing with your parents, you know?
00:41:11.694 --> 00:41:15.765
I mean, we're in a season of taking care of my parents,
00:41:15.765 --> 00:41:18.901
You know?
00:41:18.901 --> 00:41:20.503
And those that go before you, and they see it all.
00:41:20.503 --> 00:41:26.609
Just stand in faith and show your kids how to do it so that
00:41:26.609 --> 00:41:30.313
When they're going through, they know how to do it, too, and
00:41:30.313 --> 00:41:32.949
They're showing their kids.
00:41:32.949 --> 00:41:34.283
It's that generational blessing of god in our lives that you can
00:41:34.283 --> 00:41:39.021
Start now no matter where you're at.
00:41:39.021 --> 00:41:41.891
Laurie: you know, my sweet little mama is 83 now, and she
00:41:41.891 --> 00:41:47.496
Has been such a beautiful example to me all through
00:41:47.496 --> 00:41:50.766
The years.
00:41:50.766 --> 00:41:52.134
She was a pastor's wife, mostly of a small church somewhere
00:41:52.134 --> 00:41:55.504
In america.
00:41:55.504 --> 00:41:57.473
And my dad just kind of drug her around the country, and my mom
00:41:57.473 --> 00:42:03.312
Would get up on her organ, and she played for every service,
00:42:03.312 --> 00:42:07.683
And i remember from the time that i was little tiny, i
00:42:07.683 --> 00:42:11.554
Would go sit with my mom on the organ bench, especially when
00:42:11.554 --> 00:42:14.657
Daddy was finished with the sermon, and we were kind of
00:42:14.657 --> 00:42:16.926
Winding down.
00:42:16.926 --> 00:42:18.294
I'd get up, and i'd go up there and sit with her on the organ,
00:42:18.294 --> 00:42:20.963
And i just remember watching her on a big b-3 hammond organ and
00:42:20.963 --> 00:42:25.334
Her little leg going back and forth and her sitting and
00:42:25.334 --> 00:42:28.104
Playing so pretty.
00:42:28.104 --> 00:42:29.639
And just the faithfulness of god, the faith that she showed
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:35.845
Me how to live by, the tenacity, staying in there, hanging in
00:42:35.845 --> 00:42:41.150
There no matter what.
00:42:41.150 --> 00:42:43.085
I think that's where i got it from.
00:42:43.085 --> 00:42:44.553
No matter what, my mom was faithful.
00:42:44.553 --> 00:42:48.224
Holly: i guess i would encourage, too, to not be afraid
00:42:48.224 --> 00:42:50.192
To tell the hard.
00:42:50.192 --> 00:42:52.828
Laurie: they see the hard.
00:42:52.828 --> 00:42:54.196
Holly: because they see it.
00:42:54.196 --> 00:42:55.531
I just--i've been in some conversations with some people
00:42:55.531 --> 00:42:57.767
In ministry, and so they don't tell--
00:42:57.767 --> 00:43:00.670
Debra: the full story.
00:43:00.670 --> 00:43:02.038
Holly: the full story.
00:43:02.038 --> 00:43:03.372
And so i'm dealing with their kids who know the full story but
00:43:03.372 --> 00:43:07.343
Feel like their parents aren't telling the truth about
00:43:07.343 --> 00:43:10.079
The story.
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:11.414
So i'm just saying tell the truth.
00:43:11.414 --> 00:43:14.016
Tell when you were, you know, addicted to something.
00:43:14.016 --> 00:43:17.319
Tell when you were struggling.
00:43:17.319 --> 00:43:18.721
Tell the story, because they see who you are today.
00:43:18.721 --> 00:43:21.724
They see what god has done, the redemption.
00:43:21.724 --> 00:43:24.293
And if we don't tell that, if we just sugarcoat the whole thing,
00:43:24.293 --> 00:43:27.463
It actually doesn't give god the full glory, right?
00:43:27.463 --> 00:43:30.933
Because god doesn't sugarcoat anything.
00:43:30.933 --> 00:43:33.669
When we read his word, he tells all the junk, right?
00:43:33.669 --> 00:43:36.972
The junk.
00:43:36.972 --> 00:43:38.340
And so i just feel like sometimes it's so much better if
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:41.744
We just tell the full story.
00:43:41.744 --> 00:43:43.746
Debra: even if it's not done, even if it's not wrapped up with
00:43:43.746 --> 00:43:46.816
A bow.
00:43:46.816 --> 00:43:48.150
I love how you said that they brought you into prayer.
00:43:48.150 --> 00:43:51.454
You know, our family's been walking through a pretty
00:43:51.454 --> 00:43:53.889
Significantly difficult season over the past year and a half,
00:43:53.889 --> 00:43:58.594
And in some ways it would have been easier to keep the kids out
00:43:58.594 --> 00:44:01.230
Of it and just deal with it as a family, you know, outside
00:44:01.230 --> 00:44:05.434
Of them.
00:44:05.434 --> 00:44:07.336
But bringing them in has allowed their faith to grow, even though
00:44:07.336 --> 00:44:13.776
It's been hard, you know?
00:44:13.776 --> 00:44:15.745
And i'm not saying we shouldn't have discretion, especially with
00:44:15.745 --> 00:44:18.614
Young kids, but what i am saying is sometimes we're afraid to
00:44:18.614 --> 00:44:22.618
Bring them in before it's been wrapped up with a bow.
00:44:22.618 --> 00:44:25.287
This is also building their faith, teaching them how to
00:44:25.287 --> 00:44:28.491
Respond, react, letting them see the tears and the hardships and
00:44:28.491 --> 00:44:31.894
The crying out to the lord, because they will also see his
00:44:31.894 --> 00:44:35.364
Goodness in the land of the living, and they get to see both
00:44:35.364 --> 00:44:38.334
Sides of it, and it's so much more meaningful.
00:44:38.334 --> 00:44:40.603
Deedee: it's meaningful, but it also helps them to walk through
00:44:40.603 --> 00:44:43.405
Their own challenges without shame.
00:44:43.405 --> 00:44:46.075
Holly: without shame.
00:44:46.075 --> 00:44:47.576
Deedee: but it allows them to see that they're not unique,
00:44:47.576 --> 00:44:49.979
You know?
00:44:49.979 --> 00:44:51.547
Like, they're just something special picked out by, you know,
00:44:51.547 --> 00:44:55.851
God to say you're gonna go through this.
00:44:55.851 --> 00:44:57.987
It's like, oh no, my mom went through this or my dad went
00:44:57.987 --> 00:45:01.724
Through this, and this is how they came out, so to be able to
00:45:01.724 --> 00:45:05.427
See that--
00:45:05.427 --> 00:45:06.762
Debra: addiction, depression, all of it, all of it.
00:45:06.762 --> 00:45:09.965
It's not like they're alone.
00:45:09.965 --> 00:45:11.300
Holly: don't sugarcoat it.
00:45:11.300 --> 00:45:12.668
Holly: just so you know, you are leaving a legacy, you are.
00:45:12.668 --> 00:45:15.304
Now, hopefully it's one that is a legacy that demonstrates the
00:45:15.304 --> 00:45:20.676
Life that honors god, because we're all leaving a legacy.
00:45:20.676 --> 00:45:24.413
And so my challenge for me and for you is to make sure that the
00:45:24.413 --> 00:45:28.751
Legacy that we're leaving is going to be an example of a life
00:45:28.751 --> 00:45:32.822
Of faith and courage and determination and resilience and
00:45:32.822 --> 00:45:36.525
Hope, a life that loves people unconditionally.
00:45:36.525 --> 00:45:40.863
That's the life we want.
00:45:40.863 --> 00:45:42.198
So we're all leaving a legacy.
00:45:42.198 --> 00:45:43.566
It could be a legacy of, you know, criticism and negativity
00:45:43.566 --> 00:45:46.769
And doubt and fear, but i don't think that's the legacy we want
00:45:46.769 --> 00:45:50.206
To leave.
00:45:50.206 --> 00:45:51.574
So, i just want to encourage us, we've been challenged--just
00:45:51.574 --> 00:45:53.776
Like i mentioned, jeremiah 31.
00:45:53.776 --> 00:45:55.611
We've been challenged to set up road signs, put up guideposts,
00:45:55.611 --> 00:45:58.447
Mark well the path by which you've come.
00:45:58.447 --> 00:46:00.616
So our job is to mark that path with hope and faith and courage
00:46:00.616 --> 00:46:04.453
And determination, because that's the legacy that we want
00:46:04.453 --> 00:46:07.389
To leave.
00:46:07.389 --> 00:46:08.924
Holly: legacy comes when we tell the truth, right?
00:46:08.924 --> 00:46:12.561
About a life lived.
00:46:12.561 --> 00:46:14.597
You know, when we're marking our trail, then the trail is filled
00:46:14.597 --> 00:46:17.366
With heartbreak and disappointment and illness and
00:46:17.366 --> 00:46:20.603
Death and loss and all of it.
00:46:20.603 --> 00:46:23.105
And we get to choose how we're going to handle it.
00:46:23.105 --> 00:46:25.641
And i think that's the legacy is when they see us, yeah.
00:46:25.641 --> 00:46:28.811
So let's pray.
00:46:28.811 --> 00:46:30.145
Father, i am so grateful for the women that i've gotten to do
00:46:30.145 --> 00:46:33.382
This with here today, and i'm grateful for every woman that's
00:46:33.382 --> 00:46:37.219
Tuned in and has been a part of our "better together"
00:46:37.219 --> 00:46:39.922
Family today.
00:46:39.922 --> 00:46:41.257
And i don't know them all, god, the ones watching, but you do.
00:46:41.257 --> 00:46:44.493
You know their story, you know their situation, you know
00:46:44.493 --> 00:46:46.729
Their name.
00:46:46.729 --> 00:46:48.097
And so i thank you, god, that those who are dealing with
00:46:48.097 --> 00:46:50.466
Heartbreak and betrayal and disappointment and a fractured
00:46:50.466 --> 00:46:53.535
Relationship, either with their mom or with their kids, i thank
00:46:53.535 --> 00:46:56.505
You that you are the restorer, that you will bring restoration,
00:46:56.505 --> 00:46:59.875
You'll bring clarity.
00:46:59.875 --> 00:47:01.343
And, god, i just thank you again for the wisdom we need to
00:47:01.343 --> 00:47:04.580
Navigate the relationships.
00:47:04.580 --> 00:47:07.383
And, god, i also pray that by your spirit that you would bring
00:47:07.383 --> 00:47:10.519
That conviction, that challenge to each one of us, that every
00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:15.457
Day that we have the honor and the privilege to draw in breath,
00:47:15.457 --> 00:47:19.595
Every day that you've trusted us with, that we are leaving a
00:47:19.595 --> 00:47:23.065
Legacy, that every decision we make, every action we take,
00:47:23.065 --> 00:47:26.669
Every time we choose to step out in faith, that we are leaving
00:47:26.669 --> 00:47:29.972
A legacy.
00:47:29.972 --> 00:47:31.340
And so i thank you, god, that that would be just marked on us,
00:47:31.340 --> 00:47:35.077
That that would be in reme-- just we would remember that
00:47:35.077 --> 00:47:37.546
Every day.
00:47:37.546 --> 00:47:38.881
And god, what an awesome privilege it is that you've
00:47:38.881 --> 00:47:40.549
Trusted us with this moment in time, at this moment in history
00:47:40.549 --> 00:47:44.386
When it just--it seems like there's so much complications
00:47:44.386 --> 00:47:47.122
All around, but you've trusted us with today.
00:47:47.122 --> 00:47:49.925
And so i thank you, father, that you will give us the wisdom to
00:47:49.925 --> 00:47:52.928
Walk it out and not just walk it out casually, but walk it out,
00:47:52.928 --> 00:47:56.432
Leaving a legacy for a generation who is coming behind.
00:47:56.432 --> 00:48:00.436
And we thank you, father, in jesus's name, amen.
00:48:00.436 --> 00:48:04.173
Deedee: amen.
00:48:04.173 --> 00:48:05.808
Announcer: connect with us on social media and let us know how
00:48:05.808 --> 00:48:08.243
Our team can pray for you.
00:48:08.243 --> 00:48:10.245
[music]
00:48:10.245 --> 00:48:18.854
Holly: hi, we are behind the scenes at "better together," and
00:48:18.854 --> 00:48:22.691
So let's talk about some things.
00:48:22.691 --> 00:48:24.259
And today let's talk about community.
00:48:24.259 --> 00:48:27.129
Debra: community.
00:48:27.129 --> 00:48:28.464
Holly: community is pretty important.
00:48:28.464 --> 00:48:29.832
Debra: it is, and it's really difficult for people to find.
00:48:29.832 --> 00:48:34.136
I know i hear a lot of people who struggle with community.
00:48:34.136 --> 00:48:36.872
What does it look like to find people to come alongside of us?
00:48:36.872 --> 00:48:41.243
And i think it's hard enough trying to find community that
00:48:41.243 --> 00:48:44.646
Matches your family.
00:48:44.646 --> 00:48:46.548
It can certainly feel like a challenge even though it's an
00:48:46.548 --> 00:48:50.285
Important challenge to take on, because on the other side of it
00:48:50.285 --> 00:48:52.888
Is a big blessing.
00:48:52.888 --> 00:48:54.223
Holly: yeah, i just think it's crucial.
00:48:54.223 --> 00:48:55.824
I think so many times we think that it's just me and jesus.
00:48:55.824 --> 00:48:59.128
It's just that, and i think that's wrong.
00:48:59.128 --> 00:49:01.764
Christianity is a communal faith, like it's you and us.
00:49:01.764 --> 00:49:05.234
Like, it's a community.
00:49:05.234 --> 00:49:07.136
And otherwise it would have just been god and adam, right?
00:49:07.136 --> 00:49:09.972
But it wasn't.
00:49:09.972 --> 00:49:11.306
He was created because it's better if we're together.
00:49:11.306 --> 00:49:13.842
Debra: i think if i had to give one word for the process of
00:49:13.842 --> 00:49:18.113
Community, it would be intentionality.
00:49:18.113 --> 00:49:20.549
And i think about community in three circles.
00:49:20.549 --> 00:49:23.118
I think of my inner circle, my core, then there's the second
00:49:23.118 --> 00:49:26.722
Tier and then the third tier, which is like acquaintances and
00:49:26.722 --> 00:49:29.425
People that i might run into.
00:49:29.425 --> 00:49:30.793
And i think it's important for us to have a few people in
00:49:30.793 --> 00:49:34.329
Our core.
00:49:34.329 --> 00:49:35.664
And if we think about our families, maybe one or two
00:49:35.664 --> 00:49:38.700
Families that we've chosen intentionally to invest in and
00:49:38.700 --> 00:49:42.905
They invest in us.
00:49:42.905 --> 00:49:44.907
I think, you know, of my community, we've got two
00:49:44.907 --> 00:49:47.876
Families that we just love so much.
00:49:47.876 --> 00:49:50.179
I love their kids, they love my kids.
00:49:50.179 --> 00:49:51.947
They've been there for the hard things and the good things.
00:49:51.947 --> 00:49:55.217
They've watched my kids go through difficulties, they've
00:49:55.217 --> 00:49:58.287
Prayed for my kids, they've seen us cry, they've seen us laugh,
00:49:58.287 --> 00:50:02.057
But that didn't happen by coincidence, that happened
00:50:02.057 --> 00:50:05.394
With intentionality.
00:50:05.394 --> 00:50:06.728
Holly: or accident, it was intentional, and so i just think
00:50:06.728 --> 00:50:08.330
About like when i was navigating cancer or the season that when
00:50:08.330 --> 00:50:14.303
My husband navigated cancer and i was in betrayal, so some
00:50:14.303 --> 00:50:17.339
Really intense things all happening.
00:50:17.339 --> 00:50:19.341
And i was, because i had spent years building community, then
00:50:19.341 --> 00:50:24.980
When i was in the middle of a hard time, i had that--
00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:28.217
Debra: they were there. holly: they were there.
00:50:28.217 --> 00:50:29.952
And so i just want to encourage you, you know, you may not be in
00:50:29.952 --> 00:50:31.954
A hard season right now, but just be intentional, like debra
00:50:31.954 --> 00:50:35.557
Said about building community.
00:50:35.557 --> 00:50:38.694
Because there will come a time when you're going to need
00:50:38.694 --> 00:50:40.329
Somebody to stand with you in some hard times.
00:50:40.329 --> 00:50:43.932
Announcer: stream full episodes of "better together" on demand.
00:50:43.932 --> 00:50:47.736
Go to bettertogether.tv to stream all of our
00:50:47.736 --> 00:50:50.506
Latest conversations.
00:50:50.506 --> 00:50:52.541
[music]
00:50:53.175 --> 00:50:53.175

Your Spiritual Legacy | Better Together Episode 1165

May 8, 2026 | S8 E1165 | 50:59

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