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Charlie Kirk Today | Kelly Shackleford: December 1, 2025 | Charlie Kirk Today | December 1, 2025
- Brought to you in part by the
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- International fellowship of christians and jews.
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- All right, everybody, welcome to this special long
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- Form interview with kelly shackleford,
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- Who's the president and ceo of first liberty institute.
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- That's first liberty.org.
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- Kelly, you were a really close friend of charlie's.
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- You were?
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- You've been on this show
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- Many times, and, it's an honor to have you in the studio,
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- Because oftentimes we'd have you,
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- And it would be breaking news
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- About something that was going on
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- With the supreme court or some, case that you were working,
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- That, you know, our audience needed to know about.
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- You're here on campus at turning point usa.
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- You're visiting, and you're you're
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- You're supporting the mission that,
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- The organization that charlie built
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- And this legacy that we're all trying to move forward.
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- And i just want to say welcome.
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- It's an honor to have you.
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- And, we're grateful for for you continuing this mission
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- With us.
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- Well, it's a privilege to, to be a part i.
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- I've been so proud of what you guys have done
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- Since the tragedy, the assassination.
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- And, i, you know, i look back at charlie
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- And i probably text or talk
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- Maybe once a month or so, and i just was looking back
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- At some of them, and, like, there's one.
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- It was like, you did it.
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- You won. and i was like, what was this?
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- And it was a big supreme court case, and,
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- Just nobody there will never be anybody like charlie kirk.
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- He's once in a generation and maybe once
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- And more than that and, an incredible loss,
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- And i i'm, i still get sad, as i think of things,
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- But i know he would be so proud
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- Of what is happening and what you guys are doing
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- And what the lord is doing with, this horrible, tragedy.
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- And so kudos to you guys for carrying on the mission
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- In an incredible way.
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- Well, i mean, thank you for saying that.
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- And you are in a very small group of people
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- That charlie would look to
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- For legal advice and especially understanding
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- The supreme court religious liberty.
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- And, you know, you have a long history with the show.
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- We haven't had you on for a while.
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- And i was like, kelly, we gotta, we gotta,
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- We gotta do this.
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- And, so i'm i'm glad we have the time and the schedule and
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- And your your, and by the way, thank you for those,
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- Those kind words.
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- I mean, we're doing our best here, you know, and
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- But we have a sacred duty we really do to continue on.
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- I never wanted to be a public figure.
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- I never had any desire to be.
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- This was sort of thrust on all of us.
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- You know, for mikey and blake.
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- I mean, all of us are just kind of trying our best
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- To keep the flame of liberty burning.
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- And, i mean, that's what you're doing, though.
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- And so,
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- You know, sometimes our mission in life
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- And our calling in life is thrust upon us.
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- And sometimes we just have to say, yes, lord, here i am.
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- Send me.
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- And so i think that's kind of what we're all doing,
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- Because we love this country and we love
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- What the lord is doing right now.
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- We love the outpouring of this revival that's happening.
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- Bible sales spiking.
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- Tpo is a faith is growing.
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- Our campus programing is growing like leaps and bounds.
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- So there's a lot of good things happening.
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- And you said something when we were meeting
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- Before this that it really took, you know,
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- It took me by surprise and it caught my attention.
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- And that is that you make the statement
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- That there is more religious liberty
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- In this country than at any
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- Other time in our nation's history.
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- Explain what you mean by that.
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- Yeah,
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- Everybody alive right now has more religious freedom
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- Than they've ever had in their life.
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- And that's because of the recent decisions.
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- And let me give a little feel for how unusual this is.
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- Typically there's about 7000 requests to the supreme court
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- To take your case, and they took 56 last year.
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- So a 3 or 4 years ago, our goal had been for them
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- To take one of our cases.
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- That would be a pretty heady go right?
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- Well, they didn't take one.
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- They didn't take three to they didn't take three.
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- They we won four religious liberty cases in 13 months.
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- And three of these were i would call landmark
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- Like shifting 50 years of case law.
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- And so the carson case, which was our domain,
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- Where they said,
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- And charlie, we talked about these, by the way, at the time,
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- But you just don't put all this together.
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- For 130 years, they've said,
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- Parents, you get to pick
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- Whatever school you want,
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- Public or private, because most of the school
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- Districts don't have public schools.
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- Just take your voucher money and go.
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- Right.
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- And then they decided to make one change.
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- But you can't pick in religious schools.
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- And, supreme court said 6 to 3 who decided that
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- The legislature they got advice.
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- Yeah, they got advice from their attorney.
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- It's like 20 something years ago that,
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- Oh, this acquisition violates separation.
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- Church and state.
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- If you treat the christian people
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- The same, you should do everybody well.
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- And that's it. that was a huge landmark
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- Because now you can take voucher.
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- You can take that to any christian catholic school.
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- Yes. every every what this means
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- Is every school choice program in the country now.
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- And everyone in the future.
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- So think about since then,
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- Texas has now just passed a school choice program.
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- From now on, you can never tell a parent
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- That they can't pick the religious.
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- The christian school.
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- That's huge.
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- That's going to really impact a lot of kids,
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- A lot of education.
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- I mean, 85% of the private schools are religious schools.
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- Yeah. of course. so this is huge.
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- So that was victory number one.
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- Victory number two was a case on religious
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- Freedom in the workplace.
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- And there what happened is,
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- We had a client who was, he was came off
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- The mission field and wanted to work somewhere.
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- We didn't have to work on the sabbath.
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- Strong beliefs on that.
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- So he went to work for the u.s.
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- Postal service,
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- And that worked fine for two years
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- Until amazon started delivering on sunday.
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- And all of a sudden,
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- You know, they said, look, we were going to have
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- To force you to work on sunday.
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- And he said, i'll work double shifts.
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- I'll do what else? but i can't do that.
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- You need to accommodate my schedule.
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- Well, there's there's a strong law
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- Protecting religious freedom in the workplace.
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- But 47 years ago, in a very dishonest case,
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- The supreme court
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- Reinterpreted all the words to make it meaningless.
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- And so the postal service knew they could just cut him loose.
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- So we went to the supreme court.
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- We did something a little different
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- Than we would normally do there.
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- We said to the court,
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- This decision from 47 years ago was alive in and it's a lie
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- Now, you know that this is not what these words mean.
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- The court ruled nine zero in our favor
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- That christmas morning.
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- Wise men brought gifts from outside the holy land.
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- But now that the war is over,
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- This holy land and her people
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- Are still carrying deep wounded.
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- Many of the elderly are alone and suffering
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- Like the wise men or wise women.
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- When you open your heart and give a special holiday food
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- Box to someone here in israel
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- This christmas chronicles season.
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- People like hannah who can't buy food.
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- That's where the fellowship is called to feed the hungry.
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- Please call, scan or go online now to help rush emergency
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- Food and healing to elderly jews
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- And their christian neighbors struggling
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- To rebuild their lives from the war.
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- What will happen when we make this holy day season?
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- Holy indeed.
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- Holy indeed.
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- I want to
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- Dive in
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- A little deeper because you mentioned
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- The separation of church and state. yes.
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- And this is, of course, taken from an 1802 letter
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- Danbury baptist association from thomas jefferson, where
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- He said, a wall of separation between church and state,
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- To express his belief that government
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- Should not interfere with religious freedom.
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- Now, let's
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- Go back to what he was probably really saying in 1802.
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- America was 100% christian, essentially.
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- Right? for all intents and purposes, catholic.
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- Christian. yeah.
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- So our founders were often concerned with we don't want,
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- You know, the presbyterians or the anglicans or whatever,
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- Taking control, becoming the state religion.
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- Yes. right.
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- And so that's that.
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- But this is this is not the constitution.
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- This is not in the declaration of independence.
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- And yet we have turned it into this
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- Almost mythology of america, that there is a separation of
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- Church and state.
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- Now, in practice, obviously, we know that that's impractical.
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- It's not possible because all legislation,
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- All policy is an extension of morality.
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- It's a it's a codification of a moral precept,
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- Which comes, of course, oftentimes
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- Sometimes it comes from academia, but
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- But oftentimes in historically it comes from our faith, our,
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- Our christian beliefs in this country.
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- So maybe just explain why this has become so insidious,
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- This idea of separation of church and state
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- And what is true and what is not legally.
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- Yeah.
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- Well, number one, it's not in the constitution, right?
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- I mean, what does the constitution say?
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- The constitution, this is the first amendment.
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- The first two clauses said that congress shall make no law
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- Respecting an establishment of religion,
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- Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
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- The founders did not want us to establish a national church.
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- They experienced that in england.
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- They didn't want that here.
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- And but what happened 50 years ago in a case called lemon,
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- It's lemon v kurtzman is they reinterpreted
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- The establishment clause and they said, well, we we
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- We don't think it means just not establishing
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- A national church or denomination.
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- We think it it goes further than that.
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- And what it really means
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- Is anywhere that government is, religion can't be.
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- I mean, that's kind of a separation of church and state.
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- Now, you may use words like separation of church and state,
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- And normally you can't bring a lawsuit
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- If you're sue, if you're offended, that's not a basis.
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- But they start allowing lawsuits
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- If you're offended by religion.
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- So if you wonder why nativity scenes were taken down
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- Across the country and nor is it hanukkah
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- And ten commandments
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- Were rolled into the closet and all that, it's
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- Not because any of that is in the constitution.
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- The founders would be appalled.
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- It's because of this lemon case, and it was cited over
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- 7000 times in the last 50 years
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- To put down religious expression in public.
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- So, like nativities nativity scenes,
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- Ten commandments, you know, if it's some sort of
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- Religious activity occurs at school, even by a student,
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- Everybody's in a panic and all that's protected.
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- And so we've been trying to get rid of it because we knew
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- It really created a government that's hostile to religion,
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- Which is not what the founders wanted.
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- They don't want the government to put their, their thumb
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- On the scale
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- In favor of one religion over another,
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- And never coercion by government.
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- But the idea that the government
- 00:10:41.866 --> 00:10:43.234
- Can't be pro religion in general is ridiculous.
- 00:10:43.234 --> 00:10:46.337
- I mean, it would strike down the free exercise clause.
- 00:10:46.337 --> 00:10:48.840
- That's pro religion.
- 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:49.941
- And so we finally got to the coach kennedy case,
- 00:10:49.941 --> 00:10:54.112
- Which was the third of those cases
- 00:10:54.112 --> 00:10:55.713
- I was just mentioning.
- 00:10:55.713 --> 00:10:57.081
- And of course, coach, a guy who was told,
- 00:10:57.081 --> 00:10:59.417
- He got out of the marines after 20 years, he went coach,
- 00:10:59.417 --> 00:11:01.686
- And he made a promise to god that after every game,
- 00:11:01.686 --> 00:11:03.955
- The first thing he would do, everybody's in center field.
- 00:11:03.955 --> 00:11:06.858
- They're making reservations for dinner after the game. he.
- 00:11:06.858 --> 00:11:09.727
- The first thing he would do is go to a knee
- 00:11:09.727 --> 00:11:12.029
- And for 15 seconds, thank god for the privilege
- 00:11:12.029 --> 00:11:15.399
- Of coaching those young men.
- 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:16.634
- And he did it for seven years until the school came to him
- 00:11:16.634 --> 00:11:19.537
- And said, if you do that again, we're going to fire you.
- 00:11:19.537 --> 00:11:22.774
- And you know, he's like, what did i fight for?
- 00:11:22.774 --> 00:11:25.209
- If i'm not going to stand up and what kind of example
- 00:11:25.209 --> 00:11:27.812
- I'm out of these boys.
- 00:11:27.812 --> 00:11:29.046
- If i run as soon as somebody shoots at me.
- 00:11:29.046 --> 00:11:31.616
- And so he went to a knee and they fired him.
- 00:11:31.616 --> 00:11:34.685
- And unfortunately for him and for us,
- 00:11:34.685 --> 00:11:36.988
- He lives outside seattle.
- 00:11:36.988 --> 00:11:38.890
- So not exactly sympathetic courts.
- 00:11:38.890 --> 00:11:41.793
- And, for seven and a half years, he lost.
- 00:11:41.793 --> 00:11:44.762
- But we finally made it to the supreme court
- 00:11:44.762 --> 00:11:46.864
- And they ruled in our favor.
- 00:11:46.864 --> 00:11:48.266
- This is the first time,
- 00:11:48.266 --> 00:11:49.367
- By the way, andrew, that there'd ever been a case
- 00:11:49.367 --> 00:11:52.203
- At the supreme court on the rights of teachers
- 00:11:52.203 --> 00:11:54.672
- Or coaches with regard to their faith.
- 00:11:54.672 --> 00:11:56.941
- Huge victory, free speech, free exercise coaches
- 00:11:56.941 --> 00:12:01.345
- And teachers do not give up their first amendment rights.
- 00:12:01.345 --> 00:12:04.549
- And that's what most people know.
- 00:12:04.549 --> 00:12:06.284
- What they don't know was within that decision.
- 00:12:06.284 --> 00:12:09.086
- They overturned the lemon case.
- 00:12:09.086 --> 00:12:10.755
- Wow, 7000 site.
- 00:12:10.755 --> 00:12:12.757
- What year was this again?
- 00:12:12.757 --> 00:12:13.758
- This is this was beyond like three years ago.
- 00:12:13.758 --> 00:12:15.560
- Three years ago.
- 00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:16.594
- And as of three years ago, because of the success
- 00:12:16.594 --> 00:12:20.398
- You guys had at first liberty institute, what is now
- 00:12:20.398 --> 00:12:24.302
- The precedent that has been set, the precedent
- 00:12:24.302 --> 00:12:26.904
- The new test is if there's a religious activity
- 00:12:26.904 --> 00:12:30.408
- And it's occurring with, with, around or in government,
- 00:12:30.408 --> 00:12:33.778
- If it's a part of our history, if it's consistent
- 00:12:33.778 --> 00:12:36.013
- With our history
- 00:12:36.013 --> 00:12:37.081
- And our traditions as a country, it's
- 00:12:37.081 --> 00:12:39.283
- Presumptively constitutional.
- 00:12:39.283 --> 00:12:40.551
- I want to dive into this
- 00:12:40.551 --> 00:12:41.619
- Because this is something
- 00:12:41.619 --> 00:12:42.720
- You and i were talking about before,
- 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.021
- And i think it's really important. okay.
- 00:12:44.021 --> 00:12:46.057
- So charlie, in the last months of his life
- 00:12:46.057 --> 00:12:49.060
- Was raising the alarm bell about islam.
- 00:12:49.060 --> 00:12:52.163
- He was worried he was seeing a big city
- 00:12:52.163 --> 00:12:54.131
- In texas, dearborn, michigan,
- 00:12:54.131 --> 00:12:57.101
- You see, sauron mamdani and, you know, you saw that
- 00:12:57.101 --> 00:13:00.571
- That debate clip between him and andrew cuomo
- 00:13:00.571 --> 00:13:03.641
- Where he essentially guilted him and shamed him,
- 00:13:03.641 --> 00:13:07.211
- Saying that you, you know, you don't know the mosques that
- 00:13:07.211 --> 00:13:10.615
- You've visited.
- 00:13:10.615 --> 00:13:11.515
- You know, and so it shocked the nation
- 00:13:11.515 --> 00:13:14.318
- Outside of the at least new york city,
- 00:13:14.318 --> 00:13:15.753
- Because it's like, oh, all of a sudden, in order to be a
- 00:13:15.753 --> 00:13:18.356
- A mayoral candidate in a big city in america,
- 00:13:18.356 --> 00:13:21.092
- Now you have to go service this new population.
- 00:13:21.092 --> 00:13:24.228
- Historically, there is no doubt there is no argument
- 00:13:24.228 --> 00:13:28.165
- That historically america has been a christian nation,
- 00:13:28.165 --> 00:13:30.534
- Whether that be baptists
- 00:13:30.534 --> 00:13:31.736
- Or quakers or anglicans or catholics or.
- 00:13:31.736 --> 00:13:35.406
- And you could make the case for the,
- 00:13:35.406 --> 00:13:37.909
- There's been a jewish presence in the,
- 00:13:37.909 --> 00:13:39.143
- The country for a historical precedent.
- 00:13:39.143 --> 00:13:41.646
- So at what point because
- 00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:44.448
- The pushback would be like, okay, so we have more religious
- 00:13:44.448 --> 00:13:46.751
- Freedom now than we've ever had.
- 00:13:46.751 --> 00:13:47.985
- That's good.
- 00:13:47.985 --> 00:13:49.353
- Obviously, as a christian,
- 00:13:49.353 --> 00:13:50.454
- I want to be able to express my religious freedom.
- 00:13:50.454 --> 00:13:53.758
- But what is good for the goose is then good for the gander.
- 00:13:53.758 --> 00:13:56.460
- And now we have a rising population
- 00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:59.764
- Of islam, of muslims in this country.
- 00:13:59.764 --> 00:14:02.800
- And so what rights do they now have if it now has to fit
- 00:14:02.800 --> 00:14:06.704
- Within this other precedent of a historical, consistency?
- 00:14:06.704 --> 00:14:10.308
- Well, you know, first you all you know,
- 00:14:10.308 --> 00:14:12.310
- People will ask a lot of times because we have synagogue
- 00:14:12.310 --> 00:14:14.445
- Cases across the country, just wanting to be synagogues.
- 00:14:14.445 --> 00:14:17.982
- And they're being persecuted.
- 00:14:17.982 --> 00:14:19.183
- So ridiculous that this is happening in the united states.
- 00:14:19.183 --> 00:14:21.552
- And they'll say, well,
- 00:14:21.552 --> 00:14:22.954
- What about religious freedom for muslims?
- 00:14:22.954 --> 00:14:24.689
- And that's they say, i'm worried about that.
- 00:14:24.689 --> 00:14:26.791
- And i always say religious freedom to do what?
- 00:14:26.791 --> 00:14:29.794
- You know, that's what you got to look at.
- 00:14:29.794 --> 00:14:31.595
- To do what? to to pray. sure.
- 00:14:31.595 --> 00:14:34.632
- You know, to, you know,
- 00:14:34.632 --> 00:14:37.368
- Put sharia law, you know, you know,
- 00:14:37.368 --> 00:14:40.438
- And so take the texas, they, they built that.
- 00:14:40.438 --> 00:14:43.941
- They were trying to build that community out in texas.
- 00:14:43.941 --> 00:14:46.143
- It was easily taken care of by law in texas.
- 00:14:46.143 --> 00:14:48.279
- In fact,
- 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:49.246
- What they were doing, and excluding others
- 00:14:49.246 --> 00:14:51.615
- And doing that type of an effort
- 00:14:51.615 --> 00:14:53.584
- Probably violates securities laws.
- 00:14:53.584 --> 00:14:55.453
- And the attorney general is now beginning to do a securities,
- 00:14:55.453 --> 00:14:59.323
- Lawsuit against them for what they were trying to do.
- 00:14:59.323 --> 00:15:01.993
- So, so i, i, you know, i say, you know,
- 00:15:01.993 --> 00:15:05.730
- And it reminds me a little bit,
- 00:15:05.730 --> 00:15:07.431
- Gosh, i don't know how many
- 00:15:07.431 --> 00:15:08.532
- Maybe 30 years ago, 25 years ago when bible clubs
- 00:15:08.532 --> 00:15:12.069
- And schools
- 00:15:12.069 --> 00:15:12.737
- Became a thing
- 00:15:12.737 --> 00:15:14.171
- And people tried to stop,
- 00:15:14.171 --> 00:15:15.506
- It went all the way to the supreme court.
- 00:15:15.506 --> 00:15:16.974
- So i guess in the 1980s,
- 00:15:16.974 --> 00:15:18.676
- And there was a great victory for religious freedom in that.
- 00:15:18.676 --> 00:15:21.812
- Yeah.
- 00:15:21.812 --> 00:15:22.680
- You you can't allow clubs at school
- 00:15:22.680 --> 00:15:24.181
- And then exclude the christian club or the bible club,
- 00:15:24.181 --> 00:15:26.517
- And people would come to me and they would say,
- 00:15:26.517 --> 00:15:28.919
- If we allow these bible clubs, they're going to allow
- 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.489
- Satan clubs. they have to allow them to.
- 00:15:31.489 --> 00:15:34.091
- And, you know, because of religious freedom.
- 00:15:34.091 --> 00:15:35.726
- And i would say, you know, our kids say
- 00:15:35.726 --> 00:15:37.962
- They'd love to know who they are, let it happen.
- 00:15:37.962 --> 00:15:41.532
- And, let's see who wins.
- 00:15:41.532 --> 00:15:43.534
- And, you know, ten years later, there were 33,000
- 00:15:43.534 --> 00:15:47.872
- Bible clubs in public schools,
- 00:15:47.872 --> 00:15:50.041
- And there really weren't much of that.
- 00:15:50.041 --> 00:15:51.108
- Yeah. there was.
- 00:15:51.108 --> 00:15:52.176
- Now, i know the muslim community is more organized,
- 00:15:52.176 --> 00:15:54.011
- But i really think the truth always wins over the darkness.
- 00:15:54.011 --> 00:15:58.682
- So if somebody is trying
- 00:15:58.682 --> 00:15:59.517
- To do something and change our country,
- 00:15:59.517 --> 00:16:01.552
- I mean, there's not a muslim country in the world
- 00:16:01.552 --> 00:16:04.221
- You can find that really has religious freedom.
- 00:16:04.221 --> 00:16:06.624
- The reason we have religious
- 00:16:06.624 --> 00:16:07.758
- Freedom in this country, even for people who disagree
- 00:16:07.758 --> 00:16:10.428
- With christians, is because of the christian belief
- 00:16:10.428 --> 00:16:14.098
- That a relationship between you and god
- 00:16:14.098 --> 00:16:17.001
- Is between you and god, and the government has no right
- 00:16:17.001 --> 00:16:19.737
- To come in between that.
- 00:16:19.737 --> 00:16:24.775
- That christmas morning.
- 00:16:25.276 --> 00:16:26.877
- Wise men brought gifts from outside the holy land.
- 00:16:26.877 --> 00:16:31.682
- But now that the war is over,
- 00:16:32.316 --> 00:16:35.319
- This holy land and her people
- 00:16:35.319 --> 00:16:37.221
- Are still carrying deep wounded.
- 00:16:37.221 --> 00:16:39.990
- Many of the elderly are alone and suffering
- 00:16:39.990 --> 00:16:43.661
- Like the wise men or wise women.
- 00:16:44.361 --> 00:16:47.598
- When you open your heart and give a special holiday food
- 00:16:47.598 --> 00:16:52.269
- Box to someone here in israel
- 00:16:52.269 --> 00:16:54.972
- This christmas chronicles season.
- 00:16:54.972 --> 00:16:58.042
- People like hannah who can't buy food.
- 00:16:58.042 --> 00:17:02.413
- That's where the fellowship is called to feed the hungry.
- 00:17:02.413 --> 00:17:06.650
- Please call, scan or go online now to help rush emergency
- 00:17:06.650 --> 00:17:10.721
- Food and healing to elderly jews
- 00:17:10.721 --> 00:17:12.823
- And their christian neighbors struggling
- 00:17:12.823 --> 00:17:14.592
- To rebuild their lives from the war.
- 00:17:14.592 --> 00:17:16.760
- What will happen when we make this holy day season?
- 00:17:16.760 --> 00:17:22.032
- Holy indeed.
- 00:17:22.032 --> 00:17:24.006
- Holy indeed.
- 00:17:24.006 --> 00:17:29.875
- So the more that we import people
- 00:17:30.575 --> 00:17:32.677
- That happen to be muslim,
- 00:17:32.677 --> 00:17:34.479
- The more that they're going to exercise
- 00:17:34.479 --> 00:17:36.748
- Politically their political rights
- 00:17:36.748 --> 00:17:38.483
- And they're going to try and leverage that.
- 00:17:38.483 --> 00:17:39.918
- You saw that was zoran, i'm donny and andrew cuomo. yeah.
- 00:17:39.918 --> 00:17:42.554
- The more that they're going to try and form communities
- 00:17:42.554 --> 00:17:44.823
- Where they get to express a cultural norm
- 00:17:44.823 --> 00:17:48.960
- That we would not consider traditionally american.
- 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.763
- So that's kind of the basis of my question.
- 00:17:51.763 --> 00:17:54.099
- So you're saying that it has to be consistent
- 00:17:54.099 --> 00:17:57.702
- With a historic.
- 00:17:57.702 --> 00:17:58.970
- That's right, norm. right. yes.
- 00:17:58.970 --> 00:18:00.405
- So at what point does something become considered historic?
- 00:18:00.405 --> 00:18:03.975
- Because if i'm their lawyers and i'm,
- 00:18:03.975 --> 00:18:05.343
- I find myself in a case
- 00:18:05.343 --> 00:18:06.545
- Where i'll be like, well, we've had muslims in new york
- 00:18:06.545 --> 00:18:08.847
- Since, you know, this date, of course it's historic.
- 00:18:08.847 --> 00:18:11.650
- Well, not in any.
- 00:18:11.650 --> 00:18:12.551
- It's the practice. it's predominant way.
- 00:18:12.551 --> 00:18:14.786
- It's what they're asking to do.
- 00:18:14.786 --> 00:18:16.588
- Well, so we have this muslim call to prayer, right.
- 00:18:16.588 --> 00:18:19.291
- And there was actually a clip of this,
- 00:18:19.291 --> 00:18:22.894
- I think i actually have this.
- 00:18:22.894 --> 00:18:24.696
- So, so we've got, bear with me for one second here.
- 00:18:24.696 --> 00:18:29.134
- Kelly.
- 00:18:29.334 --> 00:18:30.335
- I want to make sure i get these clips right.
- 00:18:30.335 --> 00:18:32.304
- Because these are these are striking.
- 00:18:32.304 --> 00:18:34.105
- And here we go.
- 00:18:34.105 --> 00:18:35.707
- So this is this is the dearborn police
- 00:18:35.707 --> 00:18:39.344
- Chief shaheen on the islamic calls
- 00:18:39.344 --> 00:18:41.913
- To prayer blasting five times starting at sunrise.
- 00:18:41.913 --> 00:18:44.282
- Daily cut, play cut to ten.
- 00:18:44.282 --> 00:18:46.484
- Oftentimes when we take readings.
- 00:18:46.484 --> 00:18:47.886
- Council president, it's the ambient noise
- 00:18:47.886 --> 00:18:49.487
- Is even louder than the call to prayer to be through.
- 00:18:49.487 --> 00:18:51.156
- The truck would go by, hit a pothole.
- 00:18:51.156 --> 00:18:52.457
- And it's much louder than the call to prayer.
- 00:18:52.457 --> 00:18:54.526
- The 2 or 3 violations that we've have had
- 00:18:54.526 --> 00:18:56.561
- In the last couple years have been met with compliance.
- 00:18:56.561 --> 00:18:58.563
- As soon as we've talked to the religious institutions,
- 00:18:58.563 --> 00:19:02.267
- It's no different
- 00:19:02.701 --> 00:19:03.735
- Than church bells that you might hear on sunday.
- 00:19:03.735 --> 00:19:06.104
- And then you've got this guy, mehdi hasan, who actually comes
- 00:19:06.104 --> 00:19:08.673
- By way of the uk.
- 00:19:08.673 --> 00:19:10.242
- He was obviously
- 00:19:10.242 --> 00:19:11.076
- He was an msnbc anchor, and now he's
- 00:19:11.076 --> 00:19:12.444
- Just basically a troublemaker and a provocateur.
- 00:19:12.444 --> 00:19:15.247
- Play cut to 12.
- 00:19:15.247 --> 00:19:16.448
- I think that if you can play church bells,
- 00:19:16.448 --> 00:19:18.450
- You can pray the call to prayer.
- 00:19:18.450 --> 00:19:19.618
- We are as american as anyone else
- 00:19:19.618 --> 00:19:21.319
- And don't take any bs okay.
- 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:22.821
- So this is going to be their argument now
- 00:19:22.821 --> 00:19:24.689
- As the population of muslims increases in these
- 00:19:24.689 --> 00:19:28.026
- In the country, while we continue to issue 1.2
- 00:19:28.026 --> 00:19:30.295
- Million green cards every year,
- 00:19:30.295 --> 00:19:31.830
- And a lot of those are coming from muslim countries.
- 00:19:31.830 --> 00:19:33.898
- And now even increasingly, if we get people
- 00:19:33.898 --> 00:19:35.867
- Immigrating from europe, they might be muslims.
- 00:19:35.867 --> 00:19:38.136
- Is there a sense of
- 00:19:38.136 --> 00:19:39.371
- You would look at it
- 00:19:39.371 --> 00:19:40.171
- And say, well, because this nation
- 00:19:40.171 --> 00:19:41.673
- Is historically christian or catholic,
- 00:19:41.673 --> 00:19:45.010
- That that would you would have broader freedoms
- 00:19:45.010 --> 00:19:48.113
- In those respects
- 00:19:48.113 --> 00:19:49.247
- To exercise certain religious freedoms than you would
- 00:19:49.247 --> 00:19:51.383
- If they want to start doing sharia law,
- 00:19:51.383 --> 00:19:53.018
- Or if they want to start doing genital mutilation,
- 00:19:53.018 --> 00:19:55.053
- If they want to start doing just muslim call to prayer.
- 00:19:55.053 --> 00:19:58.056
- Yeah, i think it wouldn't be based upon the religion.
- 00:19:58.056 --> 00:20:01.993
- It would be based on the practice.
- 00:20:01.993 --> 00:20:03.928
- What kind of practices were allowed.
- 00:20:03.928 --> 00:20:06.598
- So in other words,
- 00:20:06.598 --> 00:20:07.565
- If if a
- 00:20:07.565 --> 00:20:08.733
- If a christian can pray, you know, you
- 00:20:08.733 --> 00:20:10.635
- Somebody could say, well,
- 00:20:10.635 --> 00:20:11.936
- The history was most of the prayers are christian.
- 00:20:11.936 --> 00:20:13.972
- So the jews can't pray.
- 00:20:13.972 --> 00:20:15.273
- Well no, no the the whole idea was they were praying.
- 00:20:15.273 --> 00:20:18.410
- Right.
- 00:20:18.610 --> 00:20:19.544
- And i think the, the situation here with,
- 00:20:19.544 --> 00:20:23.181
- You know, calls to prayer, that's a noise issue, right?
- 00:20:23.181 --> 00:20:27.352
- I mean, if the idea was that, well,
- 00:20:27.352 --> 00:20:30.355
- We don't want them to be able to send an email
- 00:20:30.355 --> 00:20:32.924
- To their friends
- 00:20:32.924 --> 00:20:33.692
- And tell them to come to prayer,
- 00:20:33.692 --> 00:20:35.560
- Well, we will
- 00:20:35.560 --> 00:20:36.628
- Allow the christians to do it, but not the muslims.
- 00:20:36.628 --> 00:20:38.330
- We wouldn't say that. right.
- 00:20:38.330 --> 00:20:39.964
- This is a noise issue.
- 00:20:39.964 --> 00:20:41.199
- And if the noise
- 00:20:41.199 --> 00:20:42.667
- Is really violating and disturbing people,
- 00:20:42.667 --> 00:20:45.603
- They need to control it with noise.
- 00:20:45.603 --> 00:20:47.739
- Now, the things that people are really concerned
- 00:20:47.739 --> 00:20:49.974
- About, like creating sharia law and things like this,
- 00:20:49.974 --> 00:20:52.544
- Those would never be allowed or consistent
- 00:20:52.544 --> 00:20:55.180
- With our constitution in this country.
- 00:20:55.180 --> 00:20:57.415
- So those things would take away
- 00:20:57.415 --> 00:20:58.817
- Freedoms, and, and those things.
- 00:20:58.817 --> 00:21:01.619
- So you always have to ask yourself,
- 00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:03.888
- What is the religious practice that they're asking for?
- 00:21:03.888 --> 00:21:07.859
- And is it consistent
- 00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:09.294
- With our history and tradition if the government is involved?
- 00:21:09.294 --> 00:21:12.864
- If not, is it just something that is, you know,
- 00:21:12.864 --> 00:21:16.868
- We would want to protect for all faiths
- 00:21:16.868 --> 00:21:18.970
- Because that's really what the religious freedom is about.
- 00:21:18.970 --> 00:21:22.006
- And i understand
- 00:21:22.006 --> 00:21:22.974
- You, have a different challenge as a lawyer
- 00:21:22.974 --> 00:21:24.476
- To sort of interpret the laws and the statutes on the books.
- 00:21:24.476 --> 00:21:26.878
- But what are the statutes on the books or what?
- 00:21:26.878 --> 00:21:30.215
- What is lacking that would help protect
- 00:21:30.215 --> 00:21:32.751
- And insulate our culture from,
- 00:21:32.751 --> 00:21:35.553
- I would say a, an increasingly hostile force
- 00:21:35.553 --> 00:21:38.957
- That wants to assert cultural dominance
- 00:21:38.957 --> 00:21:40.759
- On americans and the west.
- 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:42.160
- Yeah.
- 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:42.460
- I think
- 00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:43.628
- The idea of what you can do about, different religions
- 00:21:43.628 --> 00:21:47.665
- That would come in and really aren't religions,
- 00:21:47.665 --> 00:21:49.934
- They're more government and culture.
- 00:21:49.934 --> 00:21:52.003
- They, they, they don't assimilate.
- 00:21:52.003 --> 00:21:54.873
- That's problem number one, any any religion that
- 00:21:54.873 --> 00:21:58.877
- Comes into the united states that doesn't want to sin.
- 00:21:58.877 --> 00:22:01.079
- That's the whole purpose
- 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:02.514
- Of the united states is assimilation.
- 00:22:02.514 --> 00:22:04.716
- It's the melting pot not creating,
- 00:22:04.716 --> 00:22:07.218
- You know, a new government from some other source.
- 00:22:07.218 --> 00:22:11.089
- And so, so i think the issue
- 00:22:11.089 --> 00:22:14.225
- There is not the religious freedom side,
- 00:22:14.225 --> 00:22:16.060
- It's the immigration
- 00:22:16.060 --> 00:22:16.928
- And who are allowing in and making sure
- 00:22:16.928 --> 00:22:19.164
- That we are the united states, that we
- 00:22:19.164 --> 00:22:21.065
- We have a certain history and tradition and approach,
- 00:22:21.065 --> 00:22:24.102
- And we love diversity if they're coming here
- 00:22:24.102 --> 00:22:26.805
- For the ideals of america, freedom.
- 00:22:26.805 --> 00:22:28.940
- Awesome. well said. god bless you.
- 00:22:28.940 --> 00:22:30.875
- Thank you. and god bless.
- 00:22:30.875 --> 00:22:32.377
- First liberty, you guys are doing great work
- 00:22:32.377 --> 00:22:34.245
- On behalf of the entire country,
- 00:22:34.245 --> 00:22:35.914
- Is on behalf of all as christians and jews.
- 00:22:35.914 --> 00:22:38.650
- And, it's it's really important.
- 00:22:38.650 --> 00:22:40.685
- So god bless you and thanks for making the day.
- 00:22:40.685 --> 00:22:43.421
- It's a privilege to be on.
- 00:22:43.421 --> 00:22:44.622
- Andrew really was absolutely. thanks so much.
- 00:22:44.622 --> 00:22:48.293
- I received a message from our friends
- 00:22:49.093 --> 00:22:51.029
- At international fellowship of christians and jews
- 00:22:51.029 --> 00:22:53.465
- That i would like to share with you.
- 00:22:53.465 --> 00:22:55.033
- It's a simple one. thank you.
- 00:22:55.033 --> 00:22:58.002
- And one of the jewish communities
- 00:22:58.002 --> 00:22:59.437
- Greatest times of need.
- 00:22:59.437 --> 00:23:00.505
- Christians around the world have stepped up
- 00:23:00.505 --> 00:23:02.440
- With generosity, standing in prayer
- 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:04.809
- And showing what it means to love their neighbors
- 00:23:04.809 --> 00:23:06.678
- As themselves together with the fellowship.
- 00:23:06.678 --> 00:23:08.680
- You're doing the holy work, providing food for the hungry.
- 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.716
- Care for the elderly and healing for the wounded.
- 00:23:11.716 --> 00:23:14.152
- Your prayers and support are helping to restore hope
- 00:23:14.152 --> 00:23:16.654
- And strength throughout israel and beyond.
- 00:23:16.654 --> 00:23:18.923
- To learn more, visit ifc, ck dawg, that's ifc.org.
- 00:23:18.923 --> 00:23:18.923
