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Charlie Kirk Today | Mark Halperin: July 15, 2026 | Charlie Kirk Today | July 15, 2026
- Andrew is out today, so first,
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- We talked a little bit
- 00:00:12.135 --> 00:00:13.236
- About this yesterday, but i wanted to take more time
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- For us to reflect on the life and the legacy of senator
- 00:00:16.439 --> 00:00:21.211
- Lindsey graham, because i don't think it's,
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- I don't think it's controversial to say
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- That his death shakes up the senate, shakes up
- 00:00:26.483 --> 00:00:29.452
- The republican party more than almost
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- Any other senators loss could, because for
- 00:00:33.389 --> 00:00:38.361
- Charlie talked about senator graham or lady graham,
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- As he often called him,
- 00:00:41.998 --> 00:00:43.199
- Probably more than any other senator who wasn't a regular
- 00:00:43.199 --> 00:00:47.170
- On the show. as a guest.
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- And we know that there's a reason for that.
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- The reason for that is senator graham was a long serving,
- 00:00:51.608 --> 00:00:54.978
- But often rather frustrating republican.
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- I don't think senator graham himself would object
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- To the idea that he represented
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- An earlier era for the republican party.
- 00:01:04.521 --> 00:01:07.824
- Lindsey graham was first elected to the senate in 2002.
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- And in a lot of ways, for lindsey graham,
- 00:01:11.628 --> 00:01:14.697
- It was always 2002.
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- Senator graham championed the iraq war,
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- The afghan war, for the entire duration of it,
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- And he opposed the pullout when it happened.
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- He supported the libya intervention
- 00:01:25.375 --> 00:01:26.910
- To bring down gadhafi.
- 00:01:26.910 --> 00:01:28.378
- He supported strikes on syria, regime change efforts there.
- 00:01:28.378 --> 00:01:32.315
- He was calling
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- For airstrikes on iran all the way back in 2010.
- 00:01:33.349 --> 00:01:36.719
- He would be very happy to see president trump
- 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.189
- Resuming strikes on iran in these past two days.
- 00:01:39.189 --> 00:01:41.658
- And we'll talk more about that later today.
- 00:01:41.658 --> 00:01:44.060
- Unsurprisingly, senator graham backed
- 00:01:44.060 --> 00:01:46.429
- Ukraine to the hilt, and that's exactly why
- 00:01:46.429 --> 00:01:49.899
- We already see conspiracy theories.
- 00:01:49.899 --> 00:01:51.634
- He was in ukraine just a few days ago.
- 00:01:51.634 --> 00:01:54.170
- And there's theories.
- 00:01:54.170 --> 00:01:55.438
- Maybe russia was able to poison him, hurt him in some way
- 00:01:55.438 --> 00:01:58.408
- And cause his death.
- 00:01:58.408 --> 00:01:59.609
- I don't think that was the case,
- 00:01:59.609 --> 00:02:00.877
- But you can see why people would believe it.
- 00:02:00.877 --> 00:02:03.012
- If you're a russian and you're trying
- 00:02:03.012 --> 00:02:04.814
- To make a list of your enemies in america,
- 00:02:04.814 --> 00:02:07.517
- Senator lindsey graham might literally be number one.
- 00:02:07.517 --> 00:02:10.486
- He's certainly in the top three.
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- And it's unsurprising
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- That in the days since graham's death,
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- Senator chuck
- 00:02:18.928 --> 00:02:20.129
- Schumer of the democrats has said the best way we can honor
- 00:02:20.129 --> 00:02:23.233
- Senator graham is to impose new sanctions on russia.
- 00:02:23.233 --> 00:02:27.003
- Let's do clip two. well, mr.
- 00:02:27.003 --> 00:02:28.404
- President, my prayers and those of my family
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- Are with senator graham's family, staff and friends.
- 00:02:30.873 --> 00:02:34.244
- After his sudden, sudden passing yesterday.
- 00:02:34.244 --> 00:02:37.614
- I urge senator thune, in honor of lindsey,
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- To put the sanctions,
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- The russian sanctions bill, on the floor immediately.
- 00:02:42.552 --> 00:02:46.055
- It will pass overwhelmingly and help our allies in ukraine.
- 00:02:46.055 --> 00:02:50.860
- Not seeing eye to eye
- 00:02:51.361 --> 00:02:53.062
- Is no reason to be blind to the way forward.
- 00:02:53.062 --> 00:02:56.499
- Lindsey could understand that
- 00:02:57.133 --> 00:02:59.135
- Every senator ought to do the same.
- 00:02:59.135 --> 00:03:01.671
- That's the world that lindsey graham believed in.
- 00:03:01.671 --> 00:03:04.374
- Lindsey graham was a believer
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- In the power of the american military and american force
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- Abroad to make the world a better place.
- 00:03:11.014 --> 00:03:13.716
- And sometimes he was right.
- 00:03:13.716 --> 00:03:15.251
- American force has made the world a better place.
- 00:03:15.251 --> 00:03:17.420
- Sometimes that's why
- 00:03:17.420 --> 00:03:18.354
- We celebrate our victory in world war ii.
- 00:03:18.354 --> 00:03:20.256
- Two our intervention in korea.
- 00:03:20.256 --> 00:03:21.591
- Sometimes force
- 00:03:21.591 --> 00:03:22.925
- Abroad is necessary, but we've learned
- 00:03:22.925 --> 00:03:24.994
- A lot of hard lessons in the last 25 years.
- 00:03:24.994 --> 00:03:27.196
- And charlie talked about this at length.
- 00:03:27.196 --> 00:03:29.232
- We've learned that america's wealth is not unlimited,
- 00:03:29.232 --> 00:03:32.168
- And that when we launch wars abroad,
- 00:03:32.168 --> 00:03:34.003
- We can waste that wealth and squander it.
- 00:03:34.003 --> 00:03:36.439
- We've learned that wars abroad can leave our country weaker
- 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:39.809
- And more divided, and often those wars won't achieve
- 00:03:39.809 --> 00:03:43.946
- The initial missions that they set out on.
- 00:03:43.946 --> 00:03:45.815
- They can leave the world worse.
- 00:03:45.815 --> 00:03:47.250
- The world can become more chaotic.
- 00:03:47.250 --> 00:03:49.152
- The intervention in libya
- 00:03:49.152 --> 00:03:50.420
- That senator graham supported is a perfect example of that.
- 00:03:50.420 --> 00:03:53.956
- I don't think anyone would want to rerun
- 00:03:53.956 --> 00:03:56.159
- The way that turned out, where we have
- 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:57.894
- Endless migrants pouring into europe
- 00:03:57.894 --> 00:03:59.962
- Through libya, which has become a failed state.
- 00:03:59.962 --> 00:04:02.498
- Lindsey graham also has a complicated legacy
- 00:04:03.399 --> 00:04:05.702
- On immigration.
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- He worked with senator ted kennedy on comprehensive
- 00:04:06.769 --> 00:04:09.238
- Immigration reform. he worked with schumer
- 00:04:09.238 --> 00:04:11.140
- On comprehensive immigration reform.
- 00:04:11.140 --> 00:04:13.009
- He more than once supported the dream act.
- 00:04:13.009 --> 00:04:15.111
- He supported keeping the daca program around.
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- He did evolve in a better direction.
- 00:04:18.147 --> 00:04:19.716
- One of lindsey graham's last public, pr, public
- 00:04:19.716 --> 00:04:24.220
- Press releases
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- Was him disagreeing with the supreme court's
- 00:04:25.221 --> 00:04:27.190
- Birthright citizenship decision and promising
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- To help crack down on birth tourism.
- 00:04:29.359 --> 00:04:32.462
- But nevertheless,
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- He wasn't the ideal that we would have on immigration.
- 00:04:33.629 --> 00:04:37.633
- And so he represented an early era of republican
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- And republican
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- Who hadn't gotten quite gotten the memo that
- 00:04:41.804 --> 00:04:44.207
- We shouldn't have as many wars.
- 00:04:44.207 --> 00:04:45.608
- And we need tougher immigration policies.
- 00:04:45.608 --> 00:04:48.244
- But we should emphasize this.
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- Graham was better than any democrat, period.
- 00:04:50.380 --> 00:04:54.317
- Lindsey graham didn't believe in getting rid of america.
- 00:04:54.317 --> 00:04:57.286
- Some of those policies, we think made america weaker.
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- Some of his policies were unpopular,
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- So they made it easier for the left to win.
- 00:05:01.491 --> 00:05:03.659
- But graham did not believe in abolishing america.
- 00:05:03.659 --> 00:05:06.229
- Graham did not believe in abolishing western
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- Civilization.
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- Graham did not believe in abolishing
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- Capitalism in the free market.
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- He was not a left wing zealot.
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- And so
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- All of our criticisms of graham have to be through that lens.
- 00:05:16.072 --> 00:05:18.307
- Graham could have been better, but he was still on our side.
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- And sometimes he showed that incredibly,
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- Sometimes graham was the exact person we needed.
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- We saw that during the brett kavanaugh hearings in 2018.
- 00:05:27.483 --> 00:05:32.121
- If you don't remember that,
- 00:05:32.121 --> 00:05:33.055
- You might not remember how bad it got.
- 00:05:33.055 --> 00:05:34.490
- It looked like we were going to lose that seat,
- 00:05:34.490 --> 00:05:38.127
- That democrats were going to keep it open until 2020,
- 00:05:38.127 --> 00:05:41.330
- And then they were going to let
- 00:05:41.330 --> 00:05:42.432
- Joe biden fill that seat with a radical democrat.
- 00:05:42.432 --> 00:05:45.034
- The person who brought a halt to that was lindsey graham
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- On the judiciary committee.
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- He stopped it cold, and it was tremendous.
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- And we should honor him for that.
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- Let's show the clip. clip three.
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- If you wanted
- 00:05:55.344 --> 00:05:56.412
- An fbi investigation, you could have come to us.
- 00:05:56.412 --> 00:05:59.348
- What you want to do is destroy this guy's life.
- 00:05:59.348 --> 00:06:02.518
- Hold this seat open and hope you win in 2020.
- 00:06:02.518 --> 00:06:06.088
- You said that, not me.
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- You've got nothing to apologize for.
- 00:06:09.325 --> 00:06:12.228
- When you see soda and cake
- 00:06:12.795 --> 00:06:14.397
- And tell him that lindsey said, oh, because i voted for them,
- 00:06:14.397 --> 00:06:18.568
- I would never do to them what you've done to this guy.
- 00:06:18.568 --> 00:06:21.838
- This is the most unethical sham
- 00:06:21.838 --> 00:06:25.675
- Since i've been in politics.
- 00:06:26.275 --> 00:06:28.678
- And if you really wanted to know the truth,
- 00:06:28.678 --> 00:06:31.214
- You sure as [***] wouldn't have done
- 00:06:31.214 --> 00:06:32.648
- What you've done to this guy.
- 00:06:32.648 --> 00:06:34.517
- Are you a gang [***]? no.
- 00:06:34.517 --> 00:06:37.653
- I cannot imagine what you and your family were going through.
- 00:06:37.653 --> 00:06:41.224
- Boy, y'all want power.
- 00:06:41.691 --> 00:06:42.925
- God, i hope you never get it.
- 00:06:42.925 --> 00:06:44.727
- I hope the american people can see through this sham.
- 00:06:44.727 --> 00:06:47.296
- To my republican colleagues, if you vote no,
- 00:06:47.296 --> 00:06:51.567
- You're legitimizing the most despicable thing
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- I have seen in my time in politics.
- 00:06:55.471 --> 00:06:58.174
- That was graham at his best.
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- He was a hard worker. he was a fighter.
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- He absolutely cared about getting what he believed.
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- And he was not.
- 00:07:05.014 --> 00:07:06.182
- This empty shell sitting on the senate doing nothing.
- 00:07:06.182 --> 00:07:08.684
- He was a guy who would
- 00:07:08.684 --> 00:07:09.685
- Go out there and fight and he could fight hard.
- 00:07:09.685 --> 00:07:12.188
- So we're going to have a primary to replace graham
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- In the months to come, and we'll talk about that
- 00:07:14.624 --> 00:07:16.359
- In the next segment as well. and that's what we want.
- 00:07:16.359 --> 00:07:18.694
- We want a senator who can fight like graham,
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- But we want a senator
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- Who represents the modern conservative movement
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- Better than graham did at the time of his death.
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- That's what we're going to fight for.
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- And we should remember his best parts,
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- And we should improve upon his worst parts.
- 00:07:32.508 --> 00:07:34.677
- That's what we're going to do in the weeks to come.
- 00:07:34.677 --> 00:07:40.000
- That's what we're going to do in the weeks to come.
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- I'm here flying
- 00:07:46.088 --> 00:07:47.323
- Solo today, but not for long, because we're getting joined
- 00:07:47.323 --> 00:07:50.726
- Just now by, one of our favorite experts.
- 00:07:50.726 --> 00:07:54.363
- We have the legendary mark halperin.
- 00:07:54.363 --> 00:07:56.766
- He's editor in chief of two way tv and host
- 00:07:56.766 --> 00:07:59.569
- Of next up on the megyn kelly network.
- 00:07:59.569 --> 00:08:02.772
- Charlie loved hearing from him.
- 00:08:02.772 --> 00:08:04.140
- I love hearing from him because we can trust him to
- 00:08:04.140 --> 00:08:06.976
- Give us, a lot of insights on how washington really works.
- 00:08:06.976 --> 00:08:10.613
- So mark, we're very glad to have you with us.
- 00:08:10.613 --> 00:08:13.516
- And i might as well just dive right into it.
- 00:08:13.516 --> 00:08:17.053
- Lindsey graham, he has been a fixture in washington
- 00:08:17.053 --> 00:08:21.190
- Basically my entire life, and i described him
- 00:08:21.190 --> 00:08:24.994
- At the top of the show, his departure.
- 00:08:24.994 --> 00:08:26.562
- It feels a bit like a generational change
- 00:08:26.562 --> 00:08:30.232
- Over of the republican party.
- 00:08:30.232 --> 00:08:32.501
- Am i correct in that statement or am i wildly off base?
- 00:08:32.501 --> 00:08:35.471
- So what do you think of that? no, i think that's right.
- 00:08:35.471 --> 00:08:38.107
- First of all,
- 00:08:38.107 --> 00:08:39.208
- I like to think of myself as knowing about america
- 00:08:39.208 --> 00:08:40.476
- Rather than knowing about washington.
- 00:08:40.476 --> 00:08:41.844
- So i dabble in washington, but i really like
- 00:08:41.844 --> 00:08:44.780
- Concerns more of the country.
- 00:08:44.780 --> 00:08:47.049
- You know,
- 00:08:47.350 --> 00:08:48.384
- There's only one member left of the class of 94
- 00:08:48.384 --> 00:08:52.955
- In congress, roger wicker, who's now a senator.
- 00:08:52.955 --> 00:08:56.125
- And that class, of course,
- 00:08:56.125 --> 00:08:58.561
- Was a bridge between the reagan revolution
- 00:08:58.561 --> 00:09:03.699
- And the tea party and then and then maga,
- 00:09:03.699 --> 00:09:06.836
- Which is, you know, the story
- 00:09:07.470 --> 00:09:09.672
- Of the conservative movement to a large extent since,
- 00:09:09.672 --> 00:09:14.043
- Since watergate can be told, i think, in those four
- 00:09:14.043 --> 00:09:17.079
- Chapters, reagan, the 94 revolution in which newt
- 00:09:17.079 --> 00:09:21.584
- Gingrich led a republicans
- 00:09:21.584 --> 00:09:23.085
- Their first house majority in in eons,
- 00:09:23.085 --> 00:09:25.421
- Then the tea party and then and then maga and trump
- 00:09:25.421 --> 00:09:28.624
- And, lindsey graham, span that,
- 00:09:28.624 --> 00:09:31.627
- By being a member of that class of 94.
- 00:09:31.627 --> 00:09:34.296
- And part of why i think people, are
- 00:09:34.296 --> 00:09:38.200
- Being so emotional about it in washington
- 00:09:39.035 --> 00:09:41.037
- And those who knew him is because he was, he does
- 00:09:41.037 --> 00:09:44.707
- Remind them of that of that history of that bridge,
- 00:09:44.707 --> 00:09:48.711
- And, and, and and because he was relatively young,
- 00:09:48.711 --> 00:09:52.915
- And because he was
- 00:09:52.915 --> 00:09:54.250
- A kind of a spry guy and, you know, a joke,
- 00:09:54.250 --> 00:09:56.919
- A jokester, i think people are sort of,
- 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:00.823
- Brought up a little bit short in thinking about
- 00:10:00.823 --> 00:10:03.526
- If he's gone, just how much time has passed
- 00:10:03.526 --> 00:10:05.961
- And that bygone era that so resonant for so many.
- 00:10:05.961 --> 00:10:09.465
- Yeah.
- 00:10:09.699 --> 00:10:10.633
- And so, of course, i mentioned that he's
- 00:10:10.633 --> 00:10:13.736
- Well known for being a very hawkish republican senator.
- 00:10:13.736 --> 00:10:16.539
- He was well known for being one more sympathetic
- 00:10:16.539 --> 00:10:18.908
- To immigration reform, even amnesty.
- 00:10:18.908 --> 00:10:22.011
- Yet he held he didn't change those views
- 00:10:22.011 --> 00:10:25.147
- Too much into the trump era.
- 00:10:25.147 --> 00:10:26.348
- And yet, at the same time,
- 00:10:26.348 --> 00:10:27.783
- He was known as a senator who was very close
- 00:10:27.783 --> 00:10:30.619
- With president trump,
- 00:10:30.619 --> 00:10:31.554
- Who had a lot of ability to influence him.
- 00:10:31.554 --> 00:10:34.890
- Can you describe to us how was he able
- 00:10:34.890 --> 00:10:36.992
- To achieve that?
- 00:10:36.992 --> 00:10:38.661
- What were his political secrets to, keeping his influence
- 00:10:38.661 --> 00:10:41.897
- Through changing times?
- 00:10:41.897 --> 00:10:44.834
- So, you know, the left is
- 00:10:44.834 --> 00:10:47.803
- Criticizing him is kind of the ultimate trump lapdog.
- 00:10:47.803 --> 00:10:51.140
- And, and and mocking him and saying, you know,
- 00:10:51.140 --> 00:10:55.077
- He sold his soul and certainly, to be really close friends
- 00:10:55.077 --> 00:10:59.715
- With both john mccain and donald trump
- 00:10:59.715 --> 00:11:01.684
- During this period is not something
- 00:11:01.684 --> 00:11:03.619
- Too many other people could pull off.
- 00:11:03.619 --> 00:11:06.722
- He, he was fun to have around
- 00:11:07.356 --> 00:11:08.858
- Because he had a great
- 00:11:08.858 --> 00:11:09.892
- Sense of humor and because he had an active mind.
- 00:11:09.892 --> 00:11:13.295
- He loved to trade and gossip, which, by the way,
- 00:11:13.295 --> 00:11:16.499
- For those of you don't know, the president loves
- 00:11:16.499 --> 00:11:18.334
- Trading gossip,
- 00:11:18.334 --> 00:11:19.869
- Just fascinated by the real lives of real people.
- 00:11:19.869 --> 00:11:23.372
- Meaning the personal lives of people around him.
- 00:11:23.372 --> 00:11:25.775
- It is.
- 00:11:25.775 --> 00:11:26.442
- It is caught.
- 00:11:26.442 --> 00:11:27.576
- And, he was, a very media savvy.
- 00:11:27.576 --> 00:11:30.679
- And of course, president trump likes that.
- 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:32.915
- And then although he differed
- 00:11:32.915 --> 00:11:34.250
- With the president on some issues,
- 00:11:34.250 --> 00:11:36.719
- He, he understood how to try to square the circle.
- 00:11:36.719 --> 00:11:39.622
- He understood how to, push the president towards
- 00:11:39.622 --> 00:11:42.391
- Where as he wanted to go, but not push too hard
- 00:11:42.391 --> 00:11:44.827
- To embarrass the president or to, or to, shame him.
- 00:11:44.827 --> 00:11:49.999
- And then.
- 00:11:49.999 --> 00:11:50.666
- And then i guess one more is
- 00:11:50.666 --> 00:11:52.201
- He was great eyes and ears for the president on capitol hill.
- 00:11:52.201 --> 00:11:55.304
- And the president loves gossip.
- 00:11:55.304 --> 00:11:56.739
- He also loves political intelligence.
- 00:11:56.739 --> 00:11:58.707
- And senator graham could provide that to him.
- 00:11:58.707 --> 00:12:00.910
- Yeah.
- 00:12:00.910 --> 00:12:01.811
- And he also it just seemed he knew the
- 00:12:01.811 --> 00:12:03.345
- Those little subtle ways or maybe even not so subtle.
- 00:12:03.345 --> 00:12:05.948
- I was reading,
- 00:12:05.948 --> 00:12:07.016
- Just the other day after his death that he
- 00:12:07.016 --> 00:12:10.553
- He described his secret.
- 00:12:10.553 --> 00:12:11.654
- He says, if you flatter
- 00:12:11.654 --> 00:12:12.755
- President trump too much, he's going to be suspicious.
- 00:12:12.755 --> 00:12:15.524
- He's not going to go for it. he'll have contempt for you.
- 00:12:15.524 --> 00:12:17.860
- But the best way to perhaps guy, his favorite secret was
- 00:12:17.860 --> 00:12:22.565
- He would just tell president trump, well, here's
- 00:12:22.565 --> 00:12:24.900
- What president obama would do in this situation.
- 00:12:24.900 --> 00:12:26.936
- And he would just describe it.
- 00:12:26.936 --> 00:12:28.304
- And president trump had such this deep aversion to obama.
- 00:12:28.304 --> 00:12:32.541
- He really disliked him.
- 00:12:32.541 --> 00:12:33.676
- And that was a way to to guide him in that direction.
- 00:12:33.676 --> 00:12:35.978
- And it is that was that just his special talent?
- 00:12:35.978 --> 00:12:38.848
- He knew how to tell the story,
- 00:12:38.848 --> 00:12:41.851
- Tell the little yeah, tell the anecdote.
- 00:12:41.851 --> 00:12:44.887
- That would make someone lean the way you want them to go.
- 00:12:44.887 --> 00:12:47.556
- Like trump himself, lindsey
- 00:12:47.556 --> 00:12:48.958
- Graham had high human intelligence.
- 00:12:48.958 --> 00:12:50.459
- He understood how to read people
- 00:12:50.459 --> 00:12:52.595
- And part of why reporters loved him
- 00:12:52.595 --> 00:12:54.196
- So much was because he knew.
- 00:12:54.196 --> 00:12:55.464
- He knew what reporters needed.
- 00:12:55.464 --> 00:12:56.632
- He knew what reporters wanted.
- 00:12:56.632 --> 00:12:58.267
- You read today in the new york times
- 00:12:58.267 --> 00:13:00.669
- And other lots of other places online and social media.
- 00:13:00.669 --> 00:13:04.473
- Lots of, you know, liberal reporters love lindsey graham.
- 00:13:04.473 --> 00:13:08.277
- And not because he was a liberal on some issues.
- 00:13:08.277 --> 00:13:10.446
- He was more moderate.
- 00:13:10.446 --> 00:13:11.647
- But in other issues, like on a national security stuff,
- 00:13:11.647 --> 00:13:13.949
- Quite hawkish.
- 00:13:13.949 --> 00:13:15.217
- But he just understood how to give people what they wanted.
- 00:13:15.217 --> 00:13:17.786
- And, you know, not to play immature psychiatrist.
- 00:13:17.786 --> 00:13:20.122
- But if you look at someone who lost his parents
- 00:13:20.122 --> 00:13:22.424
- When he was young, who had to struggle
- 00:13:22.424 --> 00:13:24.593
- And then searched for father figures like joe lieberman
- 00:13:24.593 --> 00:13:27.463
- And john mccain and donald trump, he's a people pleaser.
- 00:13:27.463 --> 00:13:30.766
- And so he's a smart,
- 00:13:30.766 --> 00:13:31.834
- Funny people pleaser who could read people well.
- 00:13:31.834 --> 00:13:34.436
- And i think that explains not just how he did what he did,
- 00:13:34.436 --> 00:13:37.606
- But why he was so effective.
- 00:13:37.606 --> 00:13:39.808
- So now he very abruptly is gone.
- 00:13:39.808 --> 00:13:44.280
- And i suppose a natural question to ask is
- 00:13:44.280 --> 00:13:47.416
- What does that mean?
- 00:13:47.416 --> 00:13:48.350
- How is the republican party different?
- 00:13:48.350 --> 00:13:49.952
- How is the dynamic in washington different with,
- 00:13:49.952 --> 00:13:53.322
- Lindsey graham for now replaced by his non-politician sister
- 00:13:53.322 --> 00:13:57.126
- And soon likely to be replaced by a different republican?
- 00:13:57.126 --> 00:14:00.429
- Is there any
- 00:14:00.429 --> 00:14:01.497
- Transformative effect or am i overplaying this?
- 00:14:01.497 --> 00:14:04.099
- No, i think there's minor transformative effects
- 00:14:04.099 --> 00:14:06.702
- That need to play out on capitol hill.
- 00:14:06.702 --> 00:14:08.737
- He was chair of the budget committee.
- 00:14:08.737 --> 00:14:10.506
- He was the chair of a lot of subcommittees.
- 00:14:10.506 --> 00:14:13.175
- He was a key vote and a key voice on a lot of issues.
- 00:14:13.175 --> 00:14:16.011
- I think.
- 00:14:16.011 --> 00:14:17.146
- I think the capitol hill reporters, as they tend to do,
- 00:14:17.146 --> 00:14:19.415
- Are overwriting that overemphasizing.
- 00:14:19.415 --> 00:14:21.617
- And i think all that will sort itself out.
- 00:14:21.617 --> 00:14:23.786
- And i don't think the post
- 00:14:23.786 --> 00:14:24.853
- Graham world will be all that different
- 00:14:24.853 --> 00:14:26.555
- In terms of the process of capitol hill.
- 00:14:26.555 --> 00:14:28.691
- I think the biggest thing is his role on ukraine.
- 00:14:28.691 --> 00:14:32.194
- And not, as some have said, because he,
- 00:14:32.194 --> 00:14:34.863
- The hawks have lost their biggest voice.
- 00:14:34.863 --> 00:14:37.733
- And perhaps
- 00:14:37.733 --> 00:14:38.934
- This will make president trump less supportive of zelensky,
- 00:14:38.934 --> 00:14:41.370
- As i understood it before his death,
- 00:14:41.370 --> 00:14:43.872
- The administration believed realized
- 00:14:43.872 --> 00:14:47.042
- That, of all the people in trump's orbit,
- 00:14:47.042 --> 00:14:49.278
- The only one who could pressure president zelensky
- 00:14:49.278 --> 00:14:52.281
- To eventually make a deal when the time comes
- 00:14:52.281 --> 00:14:54.750
- Was senator graham,
- 00:14:54.750 --> 00:14:56.118
- Because of his his close relationship with zelensky
- 00:14:56.118 --> 00:14:59.488
- And his hawkish position at some point.
- 00:14:59.488 --> 00:15:02.291
- And, we hope maybe this won't be the way it ends.
- 00:15:02.291 --> 00:15:05.594
- But the most likely way
- 00:15:05.594 --> 00:15:06.695
- The war ends is president zelensky accepts a peace
- 00:15:06.695 --> 00:15:09.565
- And security swap for giving up land
- 00:15:09.565 --> 00:15:12.234
- That he doesn't want to give up in that, the the,
- 00:15:12.234 --> 00:15:15.137
- Ukrainian, constitution suggests he can.
- 00:15:15.137 --> 00:15:18.140
- So hold on im. i am pointing this right.
- 00:15:18.140 --> 00:15:20.642
- I'm hearing this right, that lindsey graham
- 00:15:20.642 --> 00:15:23.445
- Was the chief asset for achieving peace
- 00:15:23.445 --> 00:15:25.814
- In ukraine, a negotiated peace in ukraine
- 00:15:25.814 --> 00:15:28.150
- With a very specific task, which was to say, to say
- 00:15:28.150 --> 00:15:31.053
- To his friend zelensky,
- 00:15:31.053 --> 00:15:32.187
- Trust me, this is the best deal you're gonna get.
- 00:15:32.187 --> 00:15:35.724
- I care about your security like you do.
- 00:15:35.724 --> 00:15:38.260
- This is it. take the deal.
- 00:15:38.260 --> 00:15:40.496
- And and it would require someone of his personal ties
- 00:15:40.496 --> 00:15:43.799
- To zelensky
- 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:44.933
- And credibility on security and anti-putin sentiment
- 00:15:44.933 --> 00:15:47.669
- To sell that.
- 00:15:48.037 --> 00:15:49.238
- And and i've talked to anybody about what their backup is.
- 00:15:49.238 --> 00:15:53.208
- But he was the one who had the credibility
- 00:15:53.208 --> 00:15:55.077
- To do that, and no one else does.
- 00:15:55.077 --> 00:15:57.513
- So that's i think that could be
- 00:15:57.513 --> 00:16:00.282
- The biggest change.
- 00:16:00.282 --> 00:16:02.885
- And loss from his passing.
- 00:16:02.885 --> 00:16:05.854
- That's so interesting.
- 00:16:05.854 --> 00:16:07.056
- That's why i love having you on you.
- 00:16:07.056 --> 00:16:08.357
- You highlight those things that we don't necessarily think
- 00:16:08.357 --> 00:16:14.000
- You highlight those things that we don't necessarily think
- 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:20.470
- We're here with mark halperin.
- 00:16:21.071 --> 00:16:22.138
- We're talking about events on the hill
- 00:16:22.138 --> 00:16:24.040
- And the legacy of senator graham.
- 00:16:24.040 --> 00:16:25.775
- So, mark,
- 00:16:25.775 --> 00:16:26.876
- We're going to have a primary one month out from now.
- 00:16:26.876 --> 00:16:29.879
- And it's something we very rarely see
- 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:32.882
- And absolutely wide open primary for a seat
- 00:16:32.882 --> 00:16:36.753
- In a relatively secure red seat.
- 00:16:36.753 --> 00:16:40.490
- What's happening right now?
- 00:16:40.490 --> 00:16:41.891
- How are they maneuvering?
- 00:16:41.891 --> 00:16:43.126
- What sort of stuff is happening
- 00:16:43.126 --> 00:16:44.928
- Behind the scenes or frankly, in front of the cameras
- 00:16:44.928 --> 00:16:47.363
- That our viewers should know about?
- 00:16:47.363 --> 00:16:49.132
- Well, some people have taken themselves out who
- 00:16:49.132 --> 00:16:51.167
- Who might have been picked.
- 00:16:51.167 --> 00:16:52.202
- Others are, are, burning up the phone lines.
- 00:16:52.202 --> 00:16:55.805
- I was a little surprised,
- 00:16:55.805 --> 00:16:56.906
- That they chose a caretaker, senator graham sister.
- 00:16:56.906 --> 00:16:59.609
- But,
- 00:16:59.609 --> 00:17:00.477
- It does make a certain amount of sense
- 00:17:00.477 --> 00:17:02.011
- Because it's an anti-establishment time.
- 00:17:02.011 --> 00:17:05.115
- And, they wanted her for the symbolism,
- 00:17:05.115 --> 00:17:07.584
- I think, to have the job.
- 00:17:07.584 --> 00:17:08.585
- But, my my money and my eye are currently on
- 00:17:08.585 --> 00:17:12.055
- Congressman fry.
- 00:17:12.055 --> 00:17:13.456
- South carolina.
- 00:17:13.456 --> 00:17:14.557
- Someone who donald trump helped win, beat an incumbent
- 00:17:14.557 --> 00:17:17.293
- Who the president wanted to take out.
- 00:17:17.293 --> 00:17:19.863
- He's currently on the ballot to run for his house seat,
- 00:17:19.863 --> 00:17:22.165
- But south carolina law actually
- 00:17:22.165 --> 00:17:23.700
- Allows you to run for both at the same time.
- 00:17:23.700 --> 00:17:25.869
- So i suspect
- 00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:28.404
- If he has the endorsement of both the president
- 00:17:28.404 --> 00:17:30.540
- And the governor, and i suspect they'll endorse
- 00:17:30.540 --> 00:17:32.342
- The same person.
- 00:17:32.342 --> 00:17:33.676
- That's that's that's
- 00:17:33.676 --> 00:17:34.644
- Where i'm looking in in in a primary like this,
- 00:17:34.644 --> 00:17:38.248
- Such a short turnaround, such a such a short time frame,
- 00:17:38.248 --> 00:17:41.885
- I, i hard to imagine that the president's normal practice
- 00:17:41.885 --> 00:17:45.388
- Of endorsing the winner wouldn't, wouldn't sustain.
- 00:17:45.388 --> 00:17:48.224
- And do you think it is just
- 00:17:48.825 --> 00:17:51.060
- President trump likely can could he anoint the winner
- 00:17:51.060 --> 00:17:53.596
- If he were to pick someone else
- 00:17:53.596 --> 00:17:54.664
- With that person, instantly become the favorite?
- 00:17:54.664 --> 00:17:56.699
- I mean, if he picked me, if he picked me now,
- 00:17:56.699 --> 00:17:59.469
- Whoever he picks will be the favorite, without a doubt.
- 00:17:59.469 --> 00:18:02.272
- And as you know,
- 00:18:02.272 --> 00:18:03.306
- The president reverse engineer this a little bit.
- 00:18:03.306 --> 00:18:05.975
- He endorses after folks.
- 00:18:05.975 --> 00:18:07.744
- Tell him who who's going to win.
- 00:18:07.744 --> 00:18:09.512
- He rarely, takes a risk.
- 00:18:09.512 --> 00:18:11.181
- In fact, in the gubernatorial primary
- 00:18:11.181 --> 00:18:13.249
- In south carolina a few weeks ago,
- 00:18:13.249 --> 00:18:14.984
- The president had endorsed lieutenant governor,
- 00:18:14.984 --> 00:18:16.986
- When his aides told him the polling suggested
- 00:18:16.986 --> 00:18:19.289
- She would lose, he, did what he sometimes does.
- 00:18:19.289 --> 00:18:21.691
- He endorsed a second candidate, mr.
- 00:18:21.691 --> 00:18:23.860
- Wilson.
- 00:18:23.860 --> 00:18:24.827
- And he won that.
- 00:18:24.827 --> 00:18:26.029
- He won the runoff. so the president,
- 00:18:26.029 --> 00:18:29.065
- I think we'll
- 00:18:29.432 --> 00:18:30.366
- Probably pick one person who his team says
- 00:18:30.366 --> 00:18:33.169
- If he endorses person, they're likely to win.
- 00:18:33.169 --> 00:18:35.939
- Yeah, i was just check double checking,
- 00:18:36.739 --> 00:18:38.908
- My message, and i said, we're going to talk about graham.
- 00:18:38.908 --> 00:18:41.778
- And as we know, senator lindsey
- 00:18:41.778 --> 00:18:42.912
- Graham is not the only graham.
- 00:18:42.912 --> 00:18:44.948
- Since we last had you on, there's been a lot of drama
- 00:18:44.948 --> 00:18:47.817
- With another graham, graham plattner out in maine.
- 00:18:47.817 --> 00:18:50.987
- Democrats, it seems like they basically.
- 00:18:50.987 --> 00:18:54.357
- Are we reading this correct from the right that they looked
- 00:18:54.357 --> 00:18:56.726
- At all of his scandals and thought, this is a loser.
- 00:18:56.726 --> 00:19:00.063
- We need to pull something off to force him out.
- 00:19:00.063 --> 00:19:02.699
- And they just made it happen.
- 00:19:02.699 --> 00:19:04.500
- Is that is that what unfolded?
- 00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:06.536
- It's an interesting question.
- 00:19:06.536 --> 00:19:08.571
- Why on mass, a critical mass of democrats turned on him.
- 00:19:08.571 --> 00:19:13.076
- As you know, some democrats never supported him,
- 00:19:13.076 --> 00:19:15.545
- Even after he won the primary.
- 00:19:15.545 --> 00:19:17.180
- Others opposed him until he won the primary and then got
- 00:19:17.180 --> 00:19:19.649
- On board.
- 00:19:19.649 --> 00:19:20.483
- You know, i talked to many democrats and reasonable
- 00:19:21.551 --> 00:19:23.753
- People who say the nazi tattoo was enough for them.
- 00:19:23.753 --> 00:19:26.956
- They would never support him.
- 00:19:26.956 --> 00:19:27.924
- But he had the support of senator schumer and,
- 00:19:27.924 --> 00:19:30.026
- And bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, etc..
- 00:19:30.026 --> 00:19:33.496
- Why this this one story, as horrible as the charges were.
- 00:19:33.496 --> 00:19:37.767
- Why why that caused them all to drop, i don't know.
- 00:19:37.767 --> 00:19:40.436
- I did write a piece for the free press, yesterday.
- 00:19:40.436 --> 00:19:43.039
- I'm not sure this increases their chances of winning.
- 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:46.276
- I think democrats assume
- 00:19:46.276 --> 00:19:48.344
- That they couldn't win with plattner,
- 00:19:48.344 --> 00:19:49.946
- But i'm not sure they can win with adam.
- 00:19:49.946 --> 00:19:51.180
- As i look at the early jostling amongst the,
- 00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:54.584
- The minor leaguers trying to replace him,
- 00:19:54.584 --> 00:19:56.919
- Blatter brought a lot of strings to this.
- 00:19:56.919 --> 00:19:59.022
- You know, he won the primary overwhelmingly.
- 00:19:59.022 --> 00:20:00.523
- He was roughly even in the polling.
- 00:20:00.523 --> 00:20:02.358
- He had energy organization, a message,
- 00:20:02.358 --> 00:20:05.128
- And, that great voice, gravelly voice.
- 00:20:05.128 --> 00:20:07.597
- And i look at these other folks, i'm not sure the
- 00:20:07.597 --> 00:20:10.199
- If they audition to be an extra in pippin
- 00:20:10.199 --> 00:20:12.268
- At bayonne, new jersey dinner theater,
- 00:20:12.268 --> 00:20:14.470
- That they would necessarily get cast.
- 00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:16.105
- So we'll see.
- 00:20:16.105 --> 00:20:17.774
- I think we'll know in a few weeks
- 00:20:17.774 --> 00:20:19.108
- After they pick the person, whether they've got
- 00:20:19.108 --> 00:20:21.077
- What it takes to beat an incumbent is there.
- 00:20:21.077 --> 00:20:24.347
- So it does seem.
- 00:20:24.347 --> 00:20:25.882
- Yeah, they basically, as you said,
- 00:20:25.882 --> 00:20:27.050
- He won the primary overwhelmingly.
- 00:20:27.050 --> 00:20:29.218
- And the party establishment basically said tough shakes.
- 00:20:29.218 --> 00:20:32.989
- We're not going to let this happen.
- 00:20:32.989 --> 00:20:34.390
- Do voters tend do voters tend to feel burned by this?
- 00:20:34.390 --> 00:20:38.261
- Like, are there going to be democrats
- 00:20:38.261 --> 00:20:39.729
- Who are just going to say, you took out our guy?
- 00:20:39.729 --> 00:20:42.699
- I'm not voting?
- 00:20:42.699 --> 00:20:43.700
- Or are they more likely to say,
- 00:20:43.700 --> 00:20:45.034
- The most important thing is getting rid of a republican?
- 00:20:45.034 --> 00:20:48.338
- And like,
- 00:20:48.338 --> 00:20:50.006
- Do they only have to worry
- 00:20:50.006 --> 00:20:50.873
- About their candidate might be weaker,
- 00:20:50.873 --> 00:20:52.575
- Or do they have to worry that they have alienated their base
- 00:20:52.575 --> 00:20:55.611
- From everything i've seen?
- 00:20:55.611 --> 00:20:57.013
- It's really more of the former than the latter.
- 00:20:57.013 --> 00:20:59.849
- I haven't seen much in talking to democrats and listening
- 00:20:59.849 --> 00:21:02.251
- To voters,
- 00:21:02.251 --> 00:21:03.319
- And reading other people's interviews with voters.
- 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:06.255
- I don't see much evidence that people are despondent
- 00:21:06.255 --> 00:21:08.691
- Because, they recognize that, planner was a vehicle.
- 00:21:08.691 --> 00:21:12.362
- And, i did a focus group a few weeks ago,
- 00:21:12.362 --> 00:21:14.430
- And all the people in it who were supportive of planner,
- 00:21:14.430 --> 00:21:16.899
- They didn't think he was some hero.
- 00:21:16.899 --> 00:21:18.668
- They just thought he was the vehicle you know it.
- 00:21:18.668 --> 00:21:20.903
- Most of everybody who's running to replace him
- 00:21:20.903 --> 00:21:23.706
- Agrees with him on a preponderance of issues.
- 00:21:23.706 --> 00:21:26.075
- They don't have his his charisma.
- 00:21:26.075 --> 00:21:27.910
- So i would imagine the bigger problem then people saying,
- 00:21:27.910 --> 00:21:31.414
- Hey, you took out our guy, we're depressed.
- 00:21:31.414 --> 00:21:32.949
- We're not going to vote for the democrat.
- 00:21:32.949 --> 00:21:34.550
- I think the bigger problem will be,
- 00:21:34.550 --> 00:21:36.519
- I'm not that engaged with the race anymore
- 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:38.287
- Because you don't have the excitement of grand planner
- 00:21:38.287 --> 00:21:40.923
- Mark every time you're on.
- 00:21:40.923 --> 00:21:42.158
- I just love to ask you.
- 00:21:42.158 --> 00:21:43.292
- You are an expert on america as as you yourself said.
- 00:21:43.292 --> 00:21:46.229
- So we are a few months out from the midterm election.
- 00:21:46.229 --> 00:21:50.466
- Well, what's your read on the overall state of things?
- 00:21:50.466 --> 00:21:53.936
- And if things stay as they are
- 00:21:54.537 --> 00:21:57.006
- Regarding the economy, how people feel about
- 00:21:57.006 --> 00:21:59.876
- The direction of the country and the president, i think,
- 00:21:59.876 --> 00:22:02.645
- Excuse me.
- 00:22:02.945 --> 00:22:04.013
- I think it'll be a very big day for the democrats.
- 00:22:04.013 --> 00:22:06.416
- Certainly.
- 00:22:06.416 --> 00:22:07.483
- Take back the house, maybe take back the senate.
- 00:22:07.483 --> 00:22:09.185
- But that's still subject to some individual races.
- 00:22:09.185 --> 00:22:11.988
- Republicans have really helped themselves with redistricting.
- 00:22:11.988 --> 00:22:15.558
- They really, were benefited from a supreme court decision
- 00:22:15.558 --> 00:22:18.428
- That allows them to coordinate how money is spent.
- 00:22:18.428 --> 00:22:21.531
- And so, the structural things benefit republicans.
- 00:22:21.531 --> 00:22:25.234
- The history and the current overview, macro conditions
- 00:22:25.234 --> 00:22:28.371
- Benefit the democrats.
- 00:22:28.838 --> 00:22:29.972
- But let's see what how people feel about the economy.
- 00:22:29.972 --> 00:22:32.909
- Let's see where gas prices are.
- 00:22:32.909 --> 00:22:34.377
- The inflation numbers today were better than expected.
- 00:22:34.377 --> 00:22:36.979
- So let's see if the president can't not,
- 00:22:36.979 --> 00:22:39.615
- You know, nudge his approval rating up.
- 00:22:39.615 --> 00:22:41.384
- Right. track, wrong track up.
- 00:22:41.384 --> 00:22:42.485
- Even 5% would make a big difference for the party
- 00:22:42.485 --> 00:22:45.655
- If let's say, for example,
- 00:22:45.655 --> 00:22:48.024
- If they were able
- 00:22:48.024 --> 00:22:49.025
- To reach a deal in iran, 30s here, could that
- 00:22:49.025 --> 00:22:52.328
- Do an overnight turn?
- 00:22:52.328 --> 00:22:53.396
- Or is it getting to the point
- 00:22:53.396 --> 00:22:54.530
- Where it might be too late to fix that?
- 00:22:54.530 --> 00:22:56.265
- Yeah,
- 00:22:56.265 --> 00:22:57.099
- We could do make a big difference,
- 00:22:57.099 --> 00:22:58.034
- But so would repelling a martian invasion,
- 00:22:58.034 --> 00:22:59.368
- Which at this point seems just as likely
- 00:22:59.368 --> 00:23:00.970
- As getting a deal with iran.
- 00:23:00.970 --> 00:23:02.605
- Brutally honest times.
- 00:23:02.605 --> 00:23:04.707
- That's that's why we appreciate you, mark.
- 00:23:04.707 --> 00:23:06.609
- That's why charlie appreciated you.
- 00:23:06.609 --> 00:23:08.811
- Check out mark's work.
- 00:23:08.811 --> 00:23:10.246
- He's, editor in chief of two way tv.
- 00:23:10.246 --> 00:23:12.081
- Like we said, you can call in, you can ask him questions.
- 00:23:12.081 --> 00:23:14.817
- He's also, next up on the megan kelly network.
- 00:23:14.817 --> 00:23:17.820
- Mark, i always love hearing you tell it to us.
- 00:23:17.820 --> 00:23:20.456
- So thank you for joining us again. great to see you, man.
- 00:23:20.456 --> 00:23:22.859
- Thank you for having me on my best andrew.
- 00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:22.859
