God With Us: Rethinking The End By Going Back to the Beginning

October 24, 2025 | 55:6

God With Us: Rethinking the End by Going Back to the Beginning invites believers to rediscover the hope-filled vision of God’s Kingdom—not as something far off in the future, but as a present and advancing reality. Too often, end-times theology has left Christians waiting for escape instead of living with Kingdom authority. This series asks hard questions: If Christ reigns, why does the world seem to be going downhill? Why doesn’t it look like the Kingdom is advancing? Could it be that what we believe about the "end" has shaped how we live in the present? With fresh insight and biblical clarity, God With Us offers a victorious perspective—reminding us that Jesus has already won, His Kingdom is here, and our calling is to join Him in bringing heaven to earth.

#EndTimes #Prophecy #Culture #Rapture #KingdomofGod #Israel #Bible #Church #Tribulation #Antichrist #Eschatology #Hope #Future #Victory

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| God With Us: Rethinking The End By Going Back to the Beginning | October 24, 2025

- this is a promise of being delivered
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From the wrath to come, right there.
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It's a promise of the rapture.
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- i'm ready to go.
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When the trumpet sounds and the rapture occurs,
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I'm going with you.
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- i believe absolutely that the lord jesus christ
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Is coming for the true believer
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Before the seven years of holocaust begin.
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- [speaker in black jacket] so back in the day, bob,
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It felt like all we were debating is pre, mid, post.
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- mm-hmm. - if you zoom the clock
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Back 30 years,
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(gentle instrumental music)
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My dad would've been sitting with somebody
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Who was talking about pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib
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And that's about as deep as we got into the subject.
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I think it's time to
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Go a little deeper. - yeah.
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(flames whoosh)
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(siren wails) - i got a little kid.
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(flood whooshes) (siren wailing continues)
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(explosion blasts)
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- [onlooker] oh my god!
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(announcer speaks faintly) - earthquakes, wars,
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Pandemics, political chaos, climate disasters,
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(explosion blasts) every day seems like the world
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Is slipping out of control.
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For the believer, it's hard not to wonder
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If we're watching civilization
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Inch toward its final chapter.
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- [bob] when lori and i talked about this,
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She's a preacher's kid and-
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- [lori] i didn't know what to be afraid of.
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(all laugh)
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- [reporter 1] pam, we have to stand like this-
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- [reporter 2] the sky's falling through a building so-
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- [michelle] well, obviously, we're getting a nice break
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From the rain, but not the flooding.
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This is essentially now a part of
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The passaic river in the. - is the end actually near?
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(phone rings)
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(ominous instrumental music)
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- [bob] right, you need to be prepared for judgment day.
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- my dad never preached dispensationalism.
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He was always just enthralled in what he would say.
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The old nasty now and now.
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- [minister] the closer we get to the rapture,
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The more corrupt this world is going to become.
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- [narrator] what's striking is that these
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Aren't just church people.
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This sense of looming doom has seeped far beyond the walls
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Of religion into our politics, our movies, our pop culture,
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And our collective imagination.
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- and i remember though, hearing people,
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When we came together, there was more prophecy teaching.
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I didn't know what to be afraid of,
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And i remember talking to my dad,
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"but what's gonna happen?"
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- my gosh, guys, there's 50 days until the rapture.
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- the day of jesus christ will come
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Like a thief in the night!
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- jesus might come back in august.
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- jesus is coming in september!
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- i just wanted children and to have his kingdom come
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And whatever we were supposed to be busy about,
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We got busy about. - yeah.
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"please let me get married.
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Please let me have children." - (laughs) yeah, exactly.
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(ominous music continues)
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- [narrator] in many ways, our modern obsession
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With the end of the world began here,
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With a single book that turned ancient prophecy
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Into pop phenomena.
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- [reporter 3] the end of the world.
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He wrote a bestselling book titled,
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"the late great planet earth."
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- [narrator] in the 1970s, hal lindsey's,
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"the late great planet earth,"
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Became the bestselling book of the entire decade.
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Second only, ironically, to the bible itself.
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(ominous music continues)
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- that what we're seeing in the world today
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Is the fulfillment of these ancient prophecies
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Written between 2,000 and 3,500 years ago.
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As the world staggers from one crisis to another, i believe
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That we're racing on a countdown
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To the end of history as we know it.
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- [narrator] lindsey's message was clear.
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The rebirth of israel meant the prophetic clock was ticking,
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And the countdown to the end had.
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- [narrator] begun.
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- a long time ago, when most of the church,
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You know, stopped some of this teaching,
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Where were you, you know, in this journey?
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For me, the questioning started in 1988
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When that didn't happen,
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And then 2000, a lot of people thought 2000 was it.
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I never really understood what 2000 had to do with it,
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But obviously it didn't happen.
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And then it was gonna be 2007, 40 years after 1967,
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The reunification of jerusalem.
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- [reporter] jerusalem will indeed become
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The burdensome stone
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Prophesied by zacharia, which will lead to the final battle
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Of mankind in the valley of armageddon.
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- when that didn't happen, i kind of thought,
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"you know, this just isn't working.
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It's been a lot of years.
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It keeps getting extended, extended.
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I'm just, you know, i don't know what to believe anymore,
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So i'm just not gonna think about it."
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- i think most people feel like that.
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- yeah.
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- [narrator] like nothing that came before it,
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"the late great planet earth" popularized ideas
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Of the antichrist, 666, and the great tribulation,
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And thrust them into mainstream culture.
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- i feel like maybe how we got here today
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Is because of how the number one selling book
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Of the seventies decade,
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How do you erase that from history?
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- [reporter 2] the massively successful
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Left behind series of books
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Helped popularize the idea of the end of the world,
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The apocalypse, the rapture, even the antichrist.
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- call it on.
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So help me god.
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God, i'm the god of this world.
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- [narrator 2] it's like the end of the world.
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- [narrator] yes, the story of the end of the world
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Is striking, but now, over 50 years have passed
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Since "the late great planet earth"
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And the rash of predictions that followed it.
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- [reporter 3] and there have always been those
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Who look for signs of the rapture described in the bible.
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- we should be selling our possessions
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And sitting up on the rooftops.
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- if you rung the clock back 30 years,
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There was one way to believe that was it.
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It caused a generation
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To wonder if they'd ever get old enough to get married,
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If they'd ever have kids.
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And i believed that with all my heart,
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And now we are holding our grandchild.
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- [narrator] by the late seventies,
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Pat robertson was declaring 1982
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As the time of christ's return.
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- in 19, well, i'd give it 1982,
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But date setting is dangerous.
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- [narrator] edgar wideman sold millions of copies
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Of "88 reasons why the rapture will be in 1988."
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- [reporter 4] hot selling book, fever signs
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And current world events that point to the tribulation.
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Events like wars, famines, and earthquakes,
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Which are mentioned in the bible.
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- [narrator] while lindsay himself
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Kept revising his timelines again and again.
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- [reporter 5] something extraordinary is going to happen
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To the world around the year 2000.
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- hal was very close to our family,
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So i was around him a lot.
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- the tribulation begins
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After the antichrist has been revealed
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And he signs a guarantee of security with israel.
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This generation will not pass away
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Until all these things are fulfilled.
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We are that generation.
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- i was on camera with my dad.
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Out of the blue he says,
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"hey, i was talking to hal lindsay today
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And he told me something very important
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And he's gonna be alive when the lord comes back."
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- [narrator] lester somera predicted the year 2000.
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- [reporter 6] four, three, two, one.
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Happy 2000!
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- [reporter 7] and the world seemed to still be intact.
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Nothing major happened.
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- [narrator] harold camping made multiple
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Failed forecasts from the nineties onward.
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- poor track record of predicting
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The end of the world just got worse.
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The world prophecy was obviously wrong.
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- i was wrong.
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I was wrong.
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- [narrator] each missed date brought another revision,
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Another chart, another new revelation
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To explain why the end hadn't come,
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But surely would any day now.
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- and apparently there's a new judgment day.
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- [narrator] what did come was the embarrassment
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And creeping doubt
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That erupted every time those predictions failed.
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- if there is an inciting incident,
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It was the passing of hal lindsay.
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- he made a lot of excuses about what happened.
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- [narrator] even more concerning,
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Was that even as the dates kept changing,
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The anxiety stayed the same.
00:07:49.592 --> 00:07:51.861
- jesus is coming back soon.
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- rapture's here.
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- rapture.
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- what, why plan for the future?
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Why worry about anything
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'cause the lord's gonna back. - we've had, okay,
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There are gonna be wars and rumors of wars.
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There are gonna be famines,
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There are gonna be terrible times,
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There'll be days of distress,
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There'll be false messiahs.
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We're all scared
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'cause we don't know what on earth's gonna happen next.
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And so it's very difficult for people
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In the rest of the world to understand
00:08:12.648 --> 00:08:14.216
Where americans are coming from.
00:08:14.216 --> 00:08:16.018
And that's not surprising
00:08:16.018 --> 00:08:18.220
Because the narrative that so many americans
00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:20.523
Have got in their heads from "the late great planet earth"
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Or wherever, is simply not in the bible.
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- looking like it's not happening, y'all.
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I'm not gonna lie, i feel fooled.
00:08:28.798 --> 00:08:30.232
- bush. i feel dumb.
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- person who sold me their car
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And the rapture didn't happen.
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You're not getting your car back.
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- and the rapture hasn't happened yet,
00:08:36.606 --> 00:08:37.907
But it's going to at some point.
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- the vast majority of news that comes in is bad news.
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It's very easy to build on that
00:08:43.045 --> 00:08:45.748
And think the bible's right, it's all going downhill.
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- life can get hard at times
00:08:49.352 --> 00:08:51.287
And it's like, "get me outta here."
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- [narrator] for generations, this thinking hasn't
00:08:53.456 --> 00:08:55.391
Just shaped how christians read the bible.
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It shaped how we see the world and our place in it
00:08:57.660 --> 00:09:00.830
Or not in it as is often the case.
00:09:00.830 --> 00:09:03.799
And though it may have helped fuel the fires of evangelism,
00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:07.203
Its fruit is clearly not without thorns.
00:09:07.203 --> 00:09:10.206
Do we invest in the world and build for tomorrow
00:09:10.206 --> 00:09:13.376
Or wait for jesus to come and fix it all?
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Is the kingdom of god here now or in the future?
00:09:16.579 --> 00:09:20.349
- and then you start thinking
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But jesus said when he came, thy kingdom come,
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Thy will be done here on earth as it is in heaven.
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Did he take that back with him?
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- jesus is lord.
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He is the king of god's kingdom
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And that we should expect his kingdom to increase.
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- jesus christ, the king has a kingdom on this earth.
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I'm a part of it and i'm a part of extending it
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And expanding it.
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- and if you're breathing today,
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You're alive today, you know jesus,
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You have an assignment.
00:09:51.881 --> 00:09:53.282
- and that's what we christians are called to do,
00:09:53.282 --> 00:09:56.452
Is to advance the kingdom.
00:09:56.452 --> 00:09:58.587
- is he coming to have to rescue us yet again?
00:09:58.587 --> 00:10:02.391
- [narrator] why hasn't the church had that kind
00:10:02.391 --> 00:10:03.893
Of effect on the world?
00:10:03.893 --> 00:10:05.561
Perhaps the key to a better future is in the past
00:10:05.561 --> 00:10:08.864
And what the church has traditionally believed.
00:10:08.864 --> 00:10:11.934
- our church fathers had a victorious view.
00:10:11.934 --> 00:10:15.504
The whole pre-millennial dispensational view
00:10:15.504 --> 00:10:17.940
Didn't come into being
00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:19.842
Until the early 1800s.
00:10:19.842 --> 00:10:22.878
- people had been reading and studying and parsing
00:10:22.878 --> 00:10:24.947
The bible for 1,830 years
00:10:24.947 --> 00:10:27.950
And had never seen seven dispensations.
00:10:27.950 --> 00:10:31.754
Nobody ever seen that before.
00:10:31.754 --> 00:10:33.322
- this is very much an american preoccupation.
00:10:33.322 --> 00:10:36.092
This is not even known much about in britain.
00:10:36.092 --> 00:10:39.395
- [guest] you know, my mom was a fish outta water
00:10:39.395 --> 00:10:41.664
In regard to that.
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- she was. - so, you know,
00:10:43.032 --> 00:10:44.600
And my mom read the bible more than anybody i've about ever
00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:46.469
Known and she would argue sometimes
00:10:46.469 --> 00:10:50.639
Points, but guess what?
00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:52.675
I didn't realize, neither one of us did,
00:10:52.675 --> 00:10:55.244
That my mom had a different view of the end times
00:10:56.278 --> 00:11:00.015
But she never labeled it anything.
00:11:00.783 --> 00:11:04.053
- [narrator] many of us have heard only one version
00:11:04.053 --> 00:11:06.255
Of the end times without even realizing there were other
00:11:06.255 --> 00:11:09.358
Biblically based opinions.
00:11:09.358 --> 00:11:10.993
And at the same time, the years keep flying by
00:11:10.993 --> 00:11:14.230
And we are still here.
00:11:14.230 --> 00:11:15.731
However, it is hard to look at the world
00:11:15.731 --> 00:11:18.267
And not see the obvious signs of the times.
00:11:18.267 --> 00:11:21.303
Yet what if these aren't signs at all?
00:11:21.303 --> 00:11:24.039
What if they're symptoms?
00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:25.541
Symptoms, not of a world too far gone,
00:11:25.541 --> 00:11:28.444
But of a church who's forgotten who we truly are.
00:11:28.444 --> 00:11:31.680
- the bible might be telling a little bit different
00:11:31.680 --> 00:11:33.482
Story than i've been told.
00:11:33.482 --> 00:11:36.218
- we should not be looking
00:11:36.218 --> 00:11:37.820
For the devil taking over the world,
00:11:37.820 --> 00:11:40.589
But we should believe that jesus is already lord.
00:11:40.589 --> 00:11:45.060
- i live in a world where jesus christ is lord.
00:11:45.060 --> 00:11:48.063
I believe that tomorrow his reign will be more
00:11:48.063 --> 00:11:51.167
Evident than today.
00:11:51.167 --> 00:11:52.535
- it's not an apocalyptic event that we're facing.
00:11:52.535 --> 00:11:55.171
It's time to build. it's time to establish.
00:11:55.171 --> 00:11:57.706
It's time to believe.
00:11:57.706 --> 00:11:58.941
It's time to bring the kingdom of god
00:11:58.941 --> 00:12:01.343
That is at hand to light.
00:12:01.343 --> 00:12:03.512
- look, everyone, all we're caring about is we love jesus.
00:12:03.512 --> 00:12:07.817
- yeah.
00:12:07.817 --> 00:12:09.351
- and we're trying to get people to take a longer view.
00:12:09.351 --> 00:12:11.921
Let's build for generation after generation.
00:12:11.921 --> 00:12:17.226
- [narrator] could our fixation on escaping this world have
00:12:18.394 --> 00:12:20.629
Inadvertently caused us to trade the great commission
00:12:20.629 --> 00:12:23.699
For a culture war, treating secular society
00:12:23.699 --> 00:12:26.602
As some invading force, threatening our families,
00:12:26.602 --> 00:12:29.538
Our values, our way of life, instead of as the very people
00:12:29.538 --> 00:12:33.409
To whom jesus set us in to love and minister to.
00:12:33.409 --> 00:12:37.179
- [participant] king jesus is taking over.
00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:40.015
Therefore, things should be getting better.
00:12:40.015 --> 00:12:42.251
- jesus came and died on the cross
00:12:42.251 --> 00:12:43.986
So we could build this victorious church
00:12:43.986 --> 00:12:47.990
That would be world changing.
00:12:47.990 --> 00:12:49.558
- that's kingdom of god.
00:12:49.558 --> 00:12:50.726
It's not about hanging there
00:12:50.726 --> 00:12:53.062
And one day i'll take you away from
00:12:53.062 --> 00:12:54.396
The world to somewhere else.
00:12:54.396 --> 00:12:55.965
- now that i have listened to the nt wrights of the world
00:12:55.965 --> 00:12:59.001
And sat through all of these interviews with phds,
00:12:59.001 --> 00:13:03.205
I realize there are people that love the lord
00:13:03.205 --> 00:13:06.475
And have interpreted scripture differently.
00:13:06.475 --> 00:13:09.245
And guess what? some of it was brand new to me.
00:13:09.245 --> 00:13:12.948
- [narrator] rather than seeing ourselves as salt and light,
00:13:12.948 --> 00:13:15.551
As ministers of reconciliation on a rescue mission in a lost
00:13:15.551 --> 00:13:19.188
And hurting world, is it possible our eschatology is
00:13:19.188 --> 00:13:22.591
Twisting our thinking to believe
00:13:22.591 --> 00:13:24.293
That we are the ones in need of rescuing from them?
00:13:24.293 --> 00:13:28.163
As n.t. wright puts it...
00:13:28.163 --> 00:13:30.232
- when we talk about the ascension of jesus,
00:13:31.133 --> 00:13:32.301
We're talking about jesus as lord.
00:13:32.301 --> 00:13:34.336
We're not saying,
00:13:34.336 --> 00:13:35.738
"please accept jesus, he'll help you to escape."
00:13:35.738 --> 00:13:38.140
It's, "please recognize the crucified
00:13:38.140 --> 00:13:41.477
And risen jesus is the lord of the world."
00:13:41.477 --> 00:13:44.780
- [narrator] but maybe the biggest issue of all is this.
00:13:44.780 --> 00:13:47.549
What if, in a focus on waiting for jesus to return,
00:13:47.549 --> 00:13:51.053
We've lost the reality
00:13:51.053 --> 00:13:52.655
That he's already present with us every moment of every day.
00:13:52.655 --> 00:13:57.626
What if we're waiting for a kingdom to arrive
00:13:57.626 --> 00:14:00.496
That's already here?
00:14:00.496 --> 00:14:01.931
- our audience is gonna hear
00:14:01.931 --> 00:14:03.165
A lot of very interesting things
00:14:03.165 --> 00:14:05.467
They likely have never heard before.
00:14:05.467 --> 00:14:07.336
- mm. - wow.
00:14:07.336 --> 00:14:08.704
- and i think what we wanna say to them is,
00:14:08.704 --> 00:14:10.172
Just have an open mind, listen to it,
00:14:10.172 --> 00:14:13.509
Ask the holy spirit to give you wisdom and understanding,
00:14:13.509 --> 00:14:16.779
Go to the bible yourself,
00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:18.514
Read the verses, and just see what you think.
00:14:18.514 --> 00:14:21.917
Just be open.
00:14:21.917 --> 00:14:23.152
- [narrator] this is "god with us,"
00:14:23.152 --> 00:14:25.054
Rethinking the end by going back to the beginning.
00:14:25.054 --> 00:14:28.791
(bright music)
00:14:29.158 --> 00:14:36.398
- we need to build for generation
00:14:37.132 --> 00:14:39.301
After generation after generation, build the kingdom.
00:14:39.301 --> 00:14:43.806
That's what we're trying to accomplish
00:14:43.806 --> 00:14:46.275
In a series of documentaries
00:14:46.275 --> 00:14:48.243
That we simply entitled, "god with us."
00:14:48.243 --> 00:14:52.047
(upbeat gentle music)
00:14:52.047 --> 00:14:57.486
Tbn's not here to try to win an argument,
00:14:58.387 --> 00:15:00.389
We're not trying to, you know,
00:15:00.389 --> 00:15:02.858
Bring some kind of a production
00:15:02.858 --> 00:15:04.827
That says these people are right and these people are wrong,
00:15:04.827 --> 00:15:08.897
Because guess what?
00:15:08.897 --> 00:15:10.132
It doesn't matter what you believe,
00:15:10.132 --> 00:15:12.034
God's gonna do it the way he did,
00:15:12.034 --> 00:15:13.802
And there will be some bragging rights in heaven.
00:15:13.802 --> 00:15:17.373
Someone's got it right, maybe. - i knew it! (host laughing)
00:15:17.373 --> 00:15:19.842
- at some point, but we're not here to kind of say,
00:15:19.842 --> 00:15:25.180
This group's right, this group's wrong,
00:15:26.048 --> 00:15:27.182
That's not what we're doing here.
00:15:27.182 --> 00:15:28.217
We're trying to explain
00:15:28.217 --> 00:15:29.685
That there's different ways to interpret the bible,
00:15:29.685 --> 00:15:32.621
And people love jesus,
00:15:32.621 --> 00:15:34.390
And they're really trying to get it right,
00:15:34.390 --> 00:15:36.825
And i had no other credible choice ever,
00:15:36.825 --> 00:15:42.231
And we're trying to find that balance of believing.
00:15:43.232 --> 00:15:48.570
- we have a great group of experts here.
00:15:49.438 --> 00:15:52.307
We've been on a journey.
00:15:52.808 --> 00:15:54.910
Each of them has been on their own journey.
00:15:54.910 --> 00:15:57.479
Let's hear from them.
00:15:57.479 --> 00:15:58.981
- [narrator] martin trench is an evangelical pastor
00:15:59.982 --> 00:16:02.284
In edmonton, canada,
00:16:02.284 --> 00:16:04.119
And co-author of "victorious eschatology."
00:16:04.119 --> 00:16:07.189
- but one day, as a very young believer,
00:16:08.057 --> 00:16:09.758
I was walking down the street
00:16:09.758 --> 00:16:11.627
And somebody handed me a chick tract,
00:16:11.627 --> 00:16:14.930
Little comic book tract,
00:16:14.930 --> 00:16:16.598
And it was all about the end times, the antichrist, 666,
00:16:16.598 --> 00:16:21.670
People being decapitated, the pope was evil.
00:16:22.604 --> 00:16:26.141
All of this stuff was in this little comic book,
00:16:26.141 --> 00:16:28.677
And there were scripture references throughout it,
00:16:28.677 --> 00:16:32.614
And because i was a young christian
00:16:32.614 --> 00:16:34.249
And didn't know anything,
00:16:34.249 --> 00:16:35.684
I just presumed this was correct.
00:16:35.684 --> 00:16:39.221
So the only story i had heard about the end times
00:16:39.221 --> 00:16:42.458
Was this scary, doom and gloom,
00:16:42.458 --> 00:16:45.727
Future antichrist-type scenario.
00:16:46.361 --> 00:16:49.798
The kind of thing you see in hollywood movies.
00:16:49.798 --> 00:16:52.067
- fire!
00:16:52.067 --> 00:16:53.268
(bombs exploding) (people screaming)
00:16:53.268 --> 00:16:55.671
- america is mine.
00:16:55.671 --> 00:16:59.108
- [narrator] mike hayes pastored for over 40 years
00:17:00.142 --> 00:17:02.778
In the dallas area,
00:17:02.778 --> 00:17:04.079
And is the author of the bestselling book,
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.148
"when god is first."
00:17:06.148 --> 00:17:08.083
- my parents were not raised as christians
00:17:08.083 --> 00:17:10.486
And they got saved when i was two years old,
00:17:10.486 --> 00:17:13.155
And the little church that they got saved in,
00:17:13.155 --> 00:17:15.290
Good people, well-meaning people, pentecostal people,
00:17:15.290 --> 00:17:19.161
Evangelistic people, wanted everybody saved.
00:17:19.161 --> 00:17:22.598
But they were an eminent return rapture church,
00:17:22.598 --> 00:17:27.536
Where jesus is coming any minute.
00:17:27.536 --> 00:17:29.771
They discouraged people from going to college,
00:17:29.771 --> 00:17:32.808
Maybe even high school, "you don't need to go to school.
00:17:32.808 --> 00:17:36.178
It's gonna be a waste of time because jesus is coming."
00:17:36.178 --> 00:17:39.681
Now, that doctrine, maybe they didn't intend it this way,
00:17:39.681 --> 00:17:43.585
But it scared me to death.
00:17:43.585 --> 00:17:45.254
- [narrator] david holland is the founding pastor
00:17:45.254 --> 00:17:47.356
And teacher of the cup and table,
00:17:47.356 --> 00:17:49.424
And has written numerous books,
00:17:49.424 --> 00:17:51.193
Including the bestseller, "praying grace."
00:17:51.193 --> 00:17:54.229
- i became absolutely convinced,
00:17:54.229 --> 00:17:56.532
From the age of about 11 or 12 on,
00:17:56.532 --> 00:17:59.067
That jesus was coming back within the next year,
00:17:59.067 --> 00:18:02.638
If not within the next 15 to 20 minutes.
00:18:02.638 --> 00:18:05.073
And a series of preachers,
00:18:05.073 --> 00:18:07.009
A revival preachers that came through my church,
00:18:07.009 --> 00:18:09.811
Reinforced that.
00:18:09.811 --> 00:18:11.313
I was a young man without any possibility of a future.
00:18:11.313 --> 00:18:16.418
What's the motivation to apply myself,
00:18:17.252 --> 00:18:18.820
To even think about what i might wanna do
00:18:18.820 --> 00:18:20.455
And be for god in this world?
00:18:20.455 --> 00:18:22.324
- [narrator] dudley hall is a renowned bible teacher
00:18:22.324 --> 00:18:24.560
And mentor, and author of,
00:18:24.560 --> 00:18:26.428
"at last - surprising hope in the end times."
00:18:26.428 --> 00:18:29.965
- during seminary days, i was a pastor of a church
00:18:29.965 --> 00:18:32.534
Right in the middle of the jesus movement,
00:18:32.534 --> 00:18:34.102
And all the kids were wanting to read
00:18:34.102 --> 00:18:36.371
Hal lindsey's book on "the late great planet earth."
00:18:36.371 --> 00:18:39.841
And i'm trying to disciple them as their pastor.
00:18:40.842 --> 00:18:43.745
I can't get 'em to take seriously going to school,
00:18:44.780 --> 00:18:47.583
Getting an education.
00:18:47.583 --> 00:18:49.051
They don't believe they're gonna live long enough
00:18:49.051 --> 00:18:50.452
To get married.
00:18:50.452 --> 00:18:51.687
So i'm having a hard time
00:18:51.687 --> 00:18:53.589
Making useful disciples out of these people
00:18:53.589 --> 00:18:57.559
Who are getting saved in the jesus movement.
00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.262
So i read hal lindsay's book,
00:19:00.262 --> 00:19:02.130
And i was a theological student myself.
00:19:02.130 --> 00:19:05.400
And you know, he was basically saying
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.003
That the end of time was gonna be by 1988.
00:19:08.003 --> 00:19:11.640
And i remember reading that and thinking,
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.343
"if he knows how to read the scripture
00:19:14.343 --> 00:19:16.111
And interpret it right, i don't."
00:19:16.111 --> 00:19:17.846
(peaceful music)
00:19:17.846 --> 00:19:19.881
- let me set the stage for you in 1971.
00:19:19.881 --> 00:19:22.284
The hippie movement had happened.
00:19:22.284 --> 00:19:24.019
There was a war in vietnam that people were protesting.
00:19:24.019 --> 00:19:26.855
A sexual revolution was launched.
00:19:26.855 --> 00:19:29.458
At the same time, the overarching background of it
00:19:29.458 --> 00:19:32.094
Was the cold war with the soviet union.
00:19:32.094 --> 00:19:34.396
And so everybody was anticipating
00:19:34.396 --> 00:19:36.131
An imminent possible global nuclear war.
00:19:36.131 --> 00:19:39.568
(bomb exploding)
00:19:39.568 --> 00:19:42.638
In that context, i'm also a kid.
00:19:43.272 --> 00:19:45.674
I'm learning about god and jesus in the bible.
00:19:45.674 --> 00:19:48.844
A well-meaning sunday school teacher introduced us
00:19:48.844 --> 00:19:51.913
To hal lindsay's book, "the late great planet earth,"
00:19:51.913 --> 00:19:55.584
Which came out around 1970, and became a wild,
00:19:55.584 --> 00:19:59.087
Huge international bestseller.
00:19:59.087 --> 00:20:01.723
Says that basically we are to expect this,
00:20:01.723 --> 00:20:04.693
The world is supposed to get worse and worse.
00:20:04.693 --> 00:20:06.862
It's gonna get darker and darker.
00:20:06.862 --> 00:20:08.830
But then right at the very, very last moment
00:20:08.830 --> 00:20:11.633
As it's super dark, jesus is gonna come back
00:20:11.633 --> 00:20:15.237
And set everything right.
00:20:15.237 --> 00:20:16.838
- somehow it was associated with, it's gonna be sudden,
00:20:17.973 --> 00:20:21.576
It's gonna be probably like midnight.
00:20:21.576 --> 00:20:24.012
You're not gonna be ready.
00:20:24.579 --> 00:20:26.381
Somehow living a life of deep sin at 10 or 11 years old.
00:20:26.381 --> 00:20:31.286
I was never feeling like i was gonna be ready.
00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:35.023
It seemed like the message was designed by a torturous god
00:20:35.023 --> 00:20:40.362
To catch the most of us off-guard as possible,
00:20:41.263 --> 00:20:43.832
Take the fewest with him and the rest of us go to hell.
00:20:43.832 --> 00:20:47.636
That was my take.
00:20:47.636 --> 00:20:49.438
And as i've talked to people,
00:20:49.438 --> 00:20:50.739
That was the take of a lot of folks.
00:20:50.739 --> 00:20:52.741
There was not a lot of hope and optimism.
00:20:52.741 --> 00:20:55.210
- [narrator] harold eberle is the president
00:20:56.111 --> 00:20:57.612
Of worldcast ministries, has written over 25 books,
00:20:57.612 --> 00:21:01.383
And is co-author of "victorious eschatology."
00:21:01.383 --> 00:21:04.820
- my view was, as the christians around me,
00:21:04.820 --> 00:21:07.622
That everything is gonna get worse and worse,
00:21:07.622 --> 00:21:10.659
And then jesus is gonna come back and rescue us
00:21:10.659 --> 00:21:12.594
At some point in the future.
00:21:12.594 --> 00:21:14.262
And that's what all the christians around me believed.
00:21:14.262 --> 00:21:16.865
My theology was, it's going downhill.
00:21:16.865 --> 00:21:19.568
Therefore, every time something bad happened on the news,
00:21:19.568 --> 00:21:22.971
I could use that to reinforce my view
00:21:22.971 --> 00:21:25.907
That it's all getting worse and worse.
00:21:25.907 --> 00:21:27.876
And i had been doing that for over 20 years.
00:21:27.876 --> 00:21:31.580
Even while i was a pastor teaching,
00:21:31.580 --> 00:21:33.782
It just seemed that every time a major bad event happened,
00:21:33.782 --> 00:21:37.452
It would just be reinforcing that view
00:21:37.452 --> 00:21:39.755
That it's going downhill.
00:21:39.755 --> 00:21:41.156
- all young adults that i knew at that time
00:21:41.156 --> 00:21:43.158
Were reading "left behind."
00:21:43.158 --> 00:21:44.893
And some of my daughter's teachers had read it
00:21:44.893 --> 00:21:47.095
And were talking to them about the fact
00:21:47.095 --> 00:21:48.764
That the return of jesus christ was imminent.
00:21:48.764 --> 00:21:52.000
And then i began to look and i couldn't square that
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.103
With the story that i saw the bible telling.
00:21:55.103 --> 00:21:58.140
So my daughter, bless her heart, came to me and said,
00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:00.308
"dad, am i ever gonna grow up?
00:22:00.308 --> 00:22:03.211
Am i ever gonna get to get married?
00:22:03.211 --> 00:22:04.613
Am i ever gonna get to have kids?"
00:22:04.613 --> 00:22:06.848
And i said, "honey, i promise you,
00:22:06.848 --> 00:22:10.552
You are gonna see your children.
00:22:10.552 --> 00:22:12.587
As a matter of fact, i'll make another promise to you.
00:22:12.587 --> 00:22:14.956
You are gonna see your grandchildren."
00:22:14.956 --> 00:22:18.226
And she's 35 years old today, has four kids,
00:22:19.161 --> 00:22:22.631
And they're growing super fast.
00:22:22.631 --> 00:22:24.366
They're four of my grandchildren.
00:22:24.366 --> 00:22:25.867
- i started thinking, you know, "i love the lord
00:22:25.867 --> 00:22:29.771
And i don't wanna be an unbeliever,
00:22:29.771 --> 00:22:31.606
But this can't be right."
00:22:31.606 --> 00:22:33.875
'cause it just looks like, and it felt like losing to me.
00:22:33.875 --> 00:22:37.379
It's like, i thought jesus came and died on the cross
00:22:37.379 --> 00:22:40.081
So we could build this victorious church
00:22:40.081 --> 00:22:44.052
That would be world changing.
00:22:44.052 --> 00:22:46.087
- but then when i began studying and moving in the direction
00:22:46.087 --> 00:22:48.990
Of understanding that the kingdom of god
00:22:48.990 --> 00:22:51.726
Was established 2,000 years ago,
00:22:51.726 --> 00:22:53.328
And it's growing like seeds in the soil
00:22:53.328 --> 00:22:55.864
And it will continue to grow till it fills the earth.
00:22:55.864 --> 00:22:58.667
Well, that implication of that
00:22:58.667 --> 00:23:01.837
Is that king jesus is taking over,
00:23:01.837 --> 00:23:04.840
Therefore things should be getting better.
00:23:04.840 --> 00:23:07.375
So shifting to the other view, i had to rethink
00:23:07.375 --> 00:23:11.880
How i look at the world.
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:13.782
That if i'm gonna get my understanding
00:23:13.782 --> 00:23:16.151
Of how the world really is from the bible,
00:23:16.151 --> 00:23:20.555
To me, i became convinced that that means
00:23:20.555 --> 00:23:24.192
Things are advancing, that the kingdom of god is growing.
00:23:24.192 --> 00:23:28.163
- [narrator] david currie is a.
00:23:28.797 --> 00:23:31.032
- [narrator] theologian and lecturer
00:23:31.032 --> 00:23:32.434
And the author of "rapture, the end times error
00:23:32.434 --> 00:23:34.569
That leaves the bible behind."
00:23:34.569 --> 00:23:36.638
- i was in the ministry, i went to seminary,
00:23:37.539 --> 00:23:40.175
And then i started having questions about the paradigm,
00:23:40.175 --> 00:23:42.644
The whole rapturous, dispensational,
00:23:42.644 --> 00:23:45.113
Pre-millennial idea.
00:23:45.113 --> 00:23:49.584
So how does one deal with that?
00:23:50.218 --> 00:23:52.754
- then i started reading the bible,
00:23:53.488 --> 00:23:56.024
And what i realized
00:23:56.024 --> 00:23:57.492
Is that every major character in the old testament,
00:23:57.492 --> 00:24:01.196
From abraham to moses,
00:24:01.196 --> 00:24:04.432
To joseph, to daniel, were god's men.
00:24:04.432 --> 00:24:08.737
But god would put them in a place
00:24:08.737 --> 00:24:10.472
Of tremendous influence right in the ear of the pharaoh
00:24:10.472 --> 00:24:15.076
Or the king or those in charge,
00:24:15.076 --> 00:24:17.546
To impact it for good and for god's will.
00:24:17.546 --> 00:24:21.683
I became convinced that the idea of hiding from it
00:24:21.683 --> 00:24:25.220
Until it happened, hiding from the world
00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:28.757
And waiting for jesus to come was not god's will.
00:24:28.757 --> 00:24:32.060
That he always put his men and women in great places
00:24:32.060 --> 00:24:36.565
Of influence to impact outcome.
00:24:36.565 --> 00:24:38.667
I wanted to do that.
00:24:38.667 --> 00:24:40.569
(dramatic music)
00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:45.003
(dramatic music)
00:24:45.003 --> 00:24:45.539
(bright music)
00:24:45.906 --> 00:24:48.976
- i went to bible college, a very good theological college,
00:24:48.976 --> 00:24:52.780
Where they taught us all four views of bible prophecy,
00:24:52.780 --> 00:24:58.018
But in my mind,
00:24:58.385 --> 00:24:59.887
I had already bought into this comic book version,
00:24:59.887 --> 00:25:02.523
And so that was the one that i listened to.
00:25:02.523 --> 00:25:05.526
That was the one i remembered.
00:25:05.526 --> 00:25:07.661
- [narrator 2] my story isn't unique.
00:25:07.661 --> 00:25:09.496
I was taught one way to see the end,
00:25:09.496 --> 00:25:12.132
That god would rescue his church in a sudden escape.
00:25:12.132 --> 00:25:16.403
So i waited.
00:25:16.403 --> 00:25:17.938
And as the world felt darker, i kept waiting.
00:25:17.938 --> 00:25:21.609
One thing i keep hearing is the term "eschatology."
00:25:21.609 --> 00:25:25.412
What exactly is that?
00:25:25.412 --> 00:25:27.848
- eschatology is a study of the last things,
00:25:28.749 --> 00:25:31.919
But there's actually three parts to eschatology.
00:25:31.919 --> 00:25:34.989
There's personal eschatology,
00:25:34.989 --> 00:25:36.890
What happens at the end of my life?
00:25:36.890 --> 00:25:40.628
Life after death, heaven and hell,
00:25:40.628 --> 00:25:43.464
All of that kind of stuff.
00:25:43.464 --> 00:25:44.932
Then there's cosmic eschatology.
00:25:44.932 --> 00:25:46.900
What happens at the end of history?
00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:48.969
That's what most people are thinking of
00:25:48.969 --> 00:25:51.005
When they think about, you know, the end of the world
00:25:51.005 --> 00:25:54.174
Or christ returning or something.
00:25:54.174 --> 00:25:56.510
And then there's covenantal eschatology.
00:25:56.510 --> 00:25:58.879
What happened at the end of the old covenant
00:25:58.879 --> 00:26:02.449
When the temple was no more?
00:26:02.449 --> 00:26:05.753
We realize
00:26:05.753 --> 00:26:08.122
Our job whenever we are reading scripture
00:26:09.023 --> 00:26:11.759
Is not to start with a blueprint in mind
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.162
And then force all the passages into it,
00:26:15.162 --> 00:26:18.432
But to read scripture
00:26:18.432 --> 00:26:20.000
And say, "is this speaking
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.136
About the end of the old covenant?
00:26:22.136 --> 00:26:24.505
Is this speaking to me personally about my life?
00:26:24.505 --> 00:26:29.076
Is this speaking about god's grand plan
00:26:29.076 --> 00:26:32.513
For the whole of humanity?
00:26:32.513 --> 00:26:34.782
What does it say in its original context?"
00:26:34.782 --> 00:26:39.219
And once i know that,
00:26:39.219 --> 00:26:40.854
Is there any evidence that this has already happened,
00:26:40.854 --> 00:26:44.658
Or is it something that is still to come?
00:26:44.658 --> 00:26:48.395
- [narrator] n.t. wright from oxford, england
00:26:48.395 --> 00:26:50.330
Is the bishop emeritus of durham,
00:26:50.330 --> 00:26:51.965
Has written over 90 books,
00:26:51.965 --> 00:26:53.667
And is considered the world's foremost
00:26:53.667 --> 00:26:55.202
New testament scholar.
00:26:55.202 --> 00:26:57.571
- we have traditionally used the word eschatology,
00:26:57.571 --> 00:26:59.707
Which comes from the greek eschaton,
00:26:59.707 --> 00:27:01.408
Meaning end or last things or whatever.
00:27:01.408 --> 00:27:04.044
We've traditionally used that to refer to everything
00:27:04.044 --> 00:27:06.647
That comes at the end in the christian narrative,
00:27:06.647 --> 00:27:09.383
And in many theologies, that means death,
00:27:09.383 --> 00:27:13.353
Judgment, heaven and hell.
00:27:13.353 --> 00:27:15.222
And indeed, if you look at old fashioned books
00:27:15.222 --> 00:27:17.357
About eschatology, that's what they'll say.
00:27:17.357 --> 00:27:20.127
Death, judgment, heaven and hell.
00:27:20.127 --> 00:27:21.428
Now, over the course of the last hundred years,
00:27:21.428 --> 00:27:23.764
People have studied the jewish world of the first century
00:27:23.764 --> 00:27:26.834
And have said that actually they weren't talking
00:27:26.834 --> 00:27:29.269
About death, judgment, heaven and hell.
00:27:29.269 --> 00:27:31.371
They were talking about god's promised future,
00:27:31.371 --> 00:27:34.508
The time when god is going to bring his kingdom,
00:27:34.508 --> 00:27:36.844
The time when god was going to judge the wicked nations,
00:27:36.844 --> 00:27:39.279
The time when god is gonna rescue israel
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:42.116
From their elongated exile, et cetera.
00:27:42.116 --> 00:27:45.352
And that's eschatology.
00:27:45.352 --> 00:27:47.321
That's what god will do at the end.
00:27:47.321 --> 00:27:49.289
And guess what?
00:27:49.289 --> 00:27:51.492
In the new testament, it says that's what god has done
00:27:51.492 --> 00:27:55.963
And is doing in jesus and by the spirit.
00:27:55.963 --> 00:27:58.365
So it's as though god's future,
00:27:58.365 --> 00:28:00.667
This rescue of his people,
00:28:00.667 --> 00:28:03.003
This judging of the wicked nations,
00:28:03.003 --> 00:28:04.571
This god coming in person to judge and to say,
00:28:04.571 --> 00:28:08.142
That's all come rushing into the present from god's future.
00:28:08.142 --> 00:28:12.412
It's like when you are on a train journey somewhere
00:28:12.412 --> 00:28:15.682
And there's another train coming from the destination
00:28:15.682 --> 00:28:17.351
That you are going to and it's passing you
00:28:17.351 --> 00:28:19.086
And the two trains meeting in the station,
00:28:19.086 --> 00:28:21.855
And so god's future is arriving in the present.
00:28:21.855 --> 00:28:26.260
- [narrator 2] context changes everything.
00:28:26.260 --> 00:28:29.296
- [woman] when i began to look at verses
00:28:30.130 --> 00:28:31.498
In their original context, the meaning shifted.
00:28:31.498 --> 00:28:33.934
No longer was the theme about a distant apocalypse,
00:28:33.934 --> 00:28:37.638
It was about the arrival of jesus's kingdom on earth.
00:28:37.638 --> 00:28:41.208
- there is a sense that once you understand
00:28:41.208 --> 00:28:43.310
Eschatology the jewish way,
00:28:43.310 --> 00:28:45.279
You get all the other stuff as well,
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:47.381
But the best way to do it is to say,
00:28:47.381 --> 00:28:49.883
Look at the old testament hope,
00:28:49.883 --> 00:28:52.119
See how that hope is already realized
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:54.488
In jesus and the spirit,
00:28:54.488 --> 00:28:56.056
And then realize we are living in god's new age.
00:28:56.056 --> 00:29:00.093
It ain't over yet, but the new age has been inaugurated,
00:29:00.093 --> 00:29:04.097
The kingdom of god has begun on earth as in heaven,
00:29:04.097 --> 00:29:07.534
And we get to be part of it.
00:29:07.534 --> 00:29:09.903
- [woman] if you're anything like me,
00:29:09.903 --> 00:29:11.638
You've believed one thing about the end of the world
00:29:11.638 --> 00:29:14.174
For most of your life, assuming everyone else did too.
00:29:14.174 --> 00:29:18.145
For decades without even realizing it,
00:29:18.145 --> 00:29:20.981
I subscribed to a particular end times view,
00:29:20.981 --> 00:29:24.251
One with a name i'd never heard
00:29:24.251 --> 00:29:26.453
And a history i'd never read.
00:29:26.453 --> 00:29:29.256
- that view i had of the end times
00:29:30.023 --> 00:29:33.760
That has been called the dispensational view,
00:29:33.760 --> 00:29:36.897
That was what, how lindsey taught,
00:29:36.897 --> 00:29:38.832
It's what all the bible teachers that i knew
00:29:38.832 --> 00:29:41.401
And had heard taught is that
00:29:41.401 --> 00:29:43.904
The world was gonna be getting worse and worse,
00:29:43.904 --> 00:29:46.006
The church was gonna diminish and diminish,
00:29:46.006 --> 00:29:48.609
And then ultimately we would be rescued
00:29:48.609 --> 00:29:52.045
At the very last minute.
00:29:52.045 --> 00:29:53.780
- [narrator] now, dispensationalism is
00:29:53.780 --> 00:29:55.082
An end times theology
00:29:55.082 --> 00:29:56.383
That divides history into distinct periods
00:29:56.383 --> 00:29:58.952
Or dispensations.
00:29:58.952 --> 00:30:00.621
It's the reason stories of the rapture, the antichrist,
00:30:00.621 --> 00:30:03.757
And a seven year tribulation flood our bookshelves,
00:30:03.757 --> 00:30:06.593
Playlists, and screens.
00:30:06.593 --> 00:30:08.528
So what story does the doctrine tell,
00:30:08.528 --> 00:30:10.731
And what's the story behind that story?
00:30:10.731 --> 00:30:13.600
- dispensationalism is so confusing,
00:30:13.600 --> 00:30:16.336
It's a very, very confusing world
00:30:16.336 --> 00:30:18.939
And a very confusing theology.
00:30:18.939 --> 00:30:21.475
And even if you speak to people who teach it,
00:30:21.475 --> 00:30:24.978
It's so complex.
00:30:24.978 --> 00:30:27.180
It involves calculators and adding up numbers
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.850
And all kinds of things
00:30:29.850 --> 00:30:31.518
That most christians don't really understand it.
00:30:31.518 --> 00:30:36.790
They just trust that
00:30:37.257 --> 00:30:38.558
Whoever's teaching it to them understands it.
00:30:38.558 --> 00:30:40.694
- jesus, after his resurrection,
00:30:40.694 --> 00:30:43.063
The first thing he did was give a hermeneutics class
00:30:43.063 --> 00:30:45.699
To a few disciples who are on the road from jerusalem
00:30:45.699 --> 00:30:49.236
To emmaus after the crucifixion.
00:30:49.236 --> 00:30:52.406
And it says that he walked along with them
00:30:52.406 --> 00:30:54.408
And he took the old testament, the whole thing
00:30:54.408 --> 00:30:57.444
And showed them how he was the subject
00:30:57.444 --> 00:31:00.047
Of every story, everything.
00:31:00.647 --> 00:31:02.683
I realized that other complicated story was way off,
00:31:02.683 --> 00:31:05.953
It's just a different story,
00:31:05.953 --> 00:31:07.921
And they're wonderful people who have bought into that
00:31:07.921 --> 00:31:11.124
And they're heard it and got parts of it and whatever,
00:31:11.124 --> 00:31:14.962
And i love them, they're wonderful people,
00:31:14.962 --> 00:31:17.331
But they're telling a different story than the one i read.
00:31:17.331 --> 00:31:20.434
- the dispensational view of the future
00:31:20.434 --> 00:31:22.736
Can produce a lot of anxiety and fear
00:31:22.736 --> 00:31:27.341
As well as a sense of relief
00:31:27.341 --> 00:31:29.309
Because if you go in the rapture,
00:31:29.309 --> 00:31:31.144
Then you're escaping the anxiety and fear,
00:31:31.144 --> 00:31:33.647
So it can bring a lot of mixed emotions with it.
00:31:33.647 --> 00:31:36.583
And when we believe something with emotional intensity,
00:31:36.583 --> 00:31:41.855
It's much harder to give up.
00:31:42.456 --> 00:31:43.590
- it's very hard for people to let go
00:31:43.590 --> 00:31:45.459
Of this particular model.
00:31:45.459 --> 00:31:47.260
In part for the reasons
00:31:47.260 --> 00:31:48.528
It was difficult for me to let go of it.
00:31:48.528 --> 00:31:50.664
For me, it was exciting,
00:31:50.664 --> 00:31:52.399
It meant that i was living in consequential times.
00:31:53.433 --> 00:31:56.837
There is something,
00:31:56.837 --> 00:31:58.205
And as i began to study the history of the church,
00:31:58.205 --> 00:31:59.840
I discovered something,
00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:01.541
Every generation of christians suffered
00:32:01.541 --> 00:32:03.477
From what i call generational narcissism, that's my term.
00:32:03.477 --> 00:32:08.749
And generational narcissism means
00:32:09.416 --> 00:32:11.151
This generation in which i'm alive
00:32:11.151 --> 00:32:13.286
Surely must be the most significant generation
00:32:13.286 --> 00:32:15.789
In church history.
00:32:15.789 --> 00:32:17.357
The funny thing is that every generation
00:32:17.357 --> 00:32:19.059
Of believers has thought that,
00:32:19.059 --> 00:32:20.460
You can go back and read the early church literature,
00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:22.629
You can read the medieval church literature,
00:32:22.629 --> 00:32:24.798
You can read the post reformation church literature,
00:32:24.798 --> 00:32:28.268
And every single generation there were those who thought,
00:32:28.268 --> 00:32:30.871
Well, they read matthew 24, looked around,
00:32:30.871 --> 00:32:34.374
Wars and rumors of wars, check,
00:32:34.374 --> 00:32:36.977
People being reprobate, check,
00:32:36.977 --> 00:32:39.980
You know, all plagues, diseases, check,
00:32:39.980 --> 00:32:43.483
But what it required of me was this painful letting go
00:32:43.483 --> 00:32:47.521
Of the assumption
00:32:47.521 --> 00:32:51.058
That i was living in the most consequential generation ever,
00:32:51.058 --> 00:32:54.694
That's a tough pill to swallow.
00:32:54.694 --> 00:32:56.596
- throughout scripture we see that,
00:32:56.596 --> 00:32:58.298
That god wants to build for generations,
00:32:58.298 --> 00:33:01.501
And yet when we buy into a defeatist end time view
00:33:01.501 --> 00:33:06.773
And we think the world is going to end any minute,
00:33:07.808 --> 00:33:09.843
Next tuesday, then we don't build anything that lasts
00:33:09.843 --> 00:33:14.247
And we don't invest in the future.
00:33:14.247 --> 00:33:16.683
Previous generations of christians
00:33:17.451 --> 00:33:19.786
Took hundreds of years to build a cathedral,
00:33:19.786 --> 00:33:23.256
One that they would never worship in,
00:33:23.256 --> 00:33:25.659
Only future generations would because they built...
00:33:25.659 --> 00:33:29.362
- believe that the gospel would still be advancing
00:33:30.397 --> 00:33:32.265
In future generations,
00:33:32.265 --> 00:33:33.600
If we could get that vision.
00:33:33.600 --> 00:33:36.036
We don't know when christ will return.
00:33:36.036 --> 00:33:39.306
But in the meantime, if we can advance the kingdom
00:33:39.306 --> 00:33:42.609
Until it fills the whole earth,
00:33:42.609 --> 00:33:44.711
Then we will build something for our children,
00:33:44.711 --> 00:33:47.547
Our grandchildren, and for their children after them,
00:33:47.547 --> 00:33:51.017
A lasting work.
00:33:51.017 --> 00:33:52.686
- [narrator] john noe is president
00:33:52.686 --> 00:33:54.321
Of the prophecy reformation institute
00:33:54.321 --> 00:33:56.523
And author of multiple books,
00:33:56.523 --> 00:33:58.291
Including "the apocalypse conspiracy."
00:33:58.291 --> 00:34:00.760
- unlearning is the hardest form of learning.
00:34:00.760 --> 00:34:06.066
So many of us christians have been misled
00:34:06.867 --> 00:34:08.869
About how great our faith really is,
00:34:08.869 --> 00:34:12.405
And we need to reform
00:34:12.405 --> 00:34:16.343
That faith into its greatness.
00:34:16.343 --> 00:34:20.280
And that's the journey that i've been on.
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:22.949
- i explored history, i explored church history,
00:34:22.949 --> 00:34:25.285
And i explored other views of looking at the end times.
00:34:25.285 --> 00:34:28.188
I discovered there were more hopeful ways to think about it,
00:34:28.188 --> 00:34:31.658
That were actually more consistent
00:34:31.658 --> 00:34:34.194
With the story the bible's telling.
00:34:34.194 --> 00:34:36.096
- what changed for me was,
00:34:36.096 --> 00:34:38.031
As i had been a pastor now for a number of years,
00:34:38.031 --> 00:34:41.902
I have a pastor's heart.
00:34:41.902 --> 00:34:44.204
I want to see people grow in their faith.
00:34:44.204 --> 00:34:47.007
I want to see them grow in their relationship with god.
00:34:47.007 --> 00:34:50.277
And one of the things i couldn't overlook
00:34:50.277 --> 00:34:52.979
Was the fact that all the people in churches that i led,
00:34:52.979 --> 00:34:57.384
Who really bought into this futuristic end time scenario,
00:34:57.384 --> 00:35:02.689
It produced so much bad fruit in their life.
00:35:03.590 --> 00:35:06.660
They became conspiracy theorists.
00:35:06.660 --> 00:35:09.196
They always had a theory about some government person
00:35:09.196 --> 00:35:12.866
Being the antichrist.
00:35:12.866 --> 00:35:14.334
They were very judgmental of other people.
00:35:14.334 --> 00:35:18.038
Their faith had gone from something
00:35:18.038 --> 00:35:20.807
That made them come alive
00:35:20.807 --> 00:35:23.043
To something that made them suspicious and slightly anxious
00:35:23.043 --> 00:35:27.180
And negative in many ways.
00:35:27.180 --> 00:35:29.482
So i decided to revisit all my theology notes
00:35:30.417 --> 00:35:33.587
That i still had from college,
00:35:33.587 --> 00:35:35.922
And it took me two years.
00:35:35.922 --> 00:35:37.724
Over a period of two years, i came to the conclusion
00:35:37.724 --> 00:35:41.461
That some of the ideas that i had bought into,
00:35:41.461 --> 00:35:45.799
Although you could quote a scripture to go along with it,
00:35:45.799 --> 00:35:48.868
It was not the overall teaching of scripture
00:35:48.868 --> 00:35:52.339
And that the overall teaching of scripture
00:35:52.339 --> 00:35:54.608
Was much more optimistic, much brighter,
00:35:54.608 --> 00:35:58.245
And that jesus is lord, he is the king of god's kingdom
00:35:58.245 --> 00:36:02.949
And that we should expect his kingdom to increase.
00:36:02.949 --> 00:36:06.753
- and i found that christians,
00:36:06.753 --> 00:36:08.788
Not just in our western society,
00:36:08.788 --> 00:36:11.291
But all over the world,
00:36:11.291 --> 00:36:12.792
Began doubting what they had been taught.
00:36:12.792 --> 00:36:15.895
They didn't have anything to replace it with though.
00:36:15.895 --> 00:36:17.998
There wasn't enough teachers out there
00:36:17.998 --> 00:36:19.599
Explaining the scriptures from a different perspective
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:23.470
Until now.
00:36:23.470 --> 00:36:24.704
(uplifting music)
00:36:24.704 --> 00:36:28.007
(uplifting music)
00:36:28.007 --> 00:36:31.889
It is just been in recent years, couple years,
00:36:32.857 --> 00:36:36.360
That there's been a lot of teachers out there
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.030
Presenting what was actually the view of the church
00:36:39.030 --> 00:36:42.099
For the first 1800 years.
00:36:42.099 --> 00:36:44.268
The belief that the church can rise in victory and power.
00:36:44.268 --> 00:36:47.438
- [narrator] to truly understand the end,
00:36:47.438 --> 00:36:49.607
We must return to the beginning and consider
00:36:49.607 --> 00:36:52.143
What the early church fathers believed.
00:36:52.143 --> 00:36:54.445
- the historic position of the church is, first of all,
00:36:55.546 --> 00:36:59.517
It does not include a rapture.
00:36:59.517 --> 00:37:01.452
I was raised where it seemed like all the protestants
00:37:02.486 --> 00:37:05.089
That i knew were caught up in the rapture
00:37:05.089 --> 00:37:07.491
In the seventies and the early eighties.
00:37:07.491 --> 00:37:10.027
But the roman catholic church has never,
00:37:10.027 --> 00:37:12.963
Ever accepted the idea of rapture.
00:37:12.963 --> 00:37:16.033
They look for example at matthew chapter 23, 24, 25 and 26.
00:37:16.033 --> 00:37:20.237
So that's the olive discourse.
00:37:20.237 --> 00:37:22.373
We saw the rapture there.
00:37:22.373 --> 00:37:24.275
And in order to find the rapture there
00:37:24.275 --> 00:37:26.243
And a great tribulation,
00:37:26.243 --> 00:37:27.712
We had to twist those passages into a little pretzel
00:37:27.712 --> 00:37:31.382
To get that to say what we wanted to.
00:37:31.382 --> 00:37:34.719
- because of my love of church history,
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:36.821
I was immediately drawn back to the leaders in history
00:37:36.821 --> 00:37:40.991
That i already knew about,
00:37:40.991 --> 00:37:42.793
But i didn't know what they thought about this subject,
00:37:42.793 --> 00:37:45.696
About the end times.
00:37:45.696 --> 00:37:47.832
So i went back to the church leaders
00:37:47.832 --> 00:37:50.301
That i learned about in seminary
00:37:50.301 --> 00:37:52.803
And oriented my study toward what do they believe?
00:37:52.803 --> 00:37:58.142
Our church fathers for the first 1,800 years at least,
00:37:59.243 --> 00:38:03.481
Had a victorious view,
00:38:03.981 --> 00:38:06.350
Meaning that they believed that once jesus
00:38:06.350 --> 00:38:09.520
Planted the church 2000 years ago,
00:38:09.520 --> 00:38:11.622
It was gonna rise up in victory and be victorious
00:38:11.622 --> 00:38:15.593
And glorious and united.
00:38:15.593 --> 00:38:18.028
And that was a revolutionary thought to me.
00:38:18.028 --> 00:38:21.532
But when i saw that our church fathers believed it,
00:38:21.532 --> 00:38:25.236
Yet i had never been taught it.
00:38:25.236 --> 00:38:28.038
- in the seminary, they had skipped over the victorious part
00:38:28.038 --> 00:38:31.609
Because they were specialized on the dispensational view,
00:38:31.609 --> 00:38:36.080
Which part of the dispensational view
00:38:36.080 --> 00:38:38.015
Is that everything is gonna go downhill,
00:38:38.015 --> 00:38:40.951
It's gonna get worse and worse until jesus returns.
00:38:40.951 --> 00:38:44.388
Well, reading the church fathers
00:38:44.388 --> 00:38:46.891
And many great leaders in church history,
00:38:46.891 --> 00:38:49.460
I discovered they didn't have that view.
00:38:49.460 --> 00:38:52.196
And that shook me.
00:38:52.196 --> 00:38:54.198
It challenged me to look at the same scriptures
00:38:54.198 --> 00:38:57.101
They were looking at through different eyes.
00:38:57.101 --> 00:38:59.904
- the western church, and in a measure, i should say,
00:38:59.904 --> 00:39:02.606
Some bits of the eastern church as well,
00:39:02.606 --> 00:39:04.508
Right through to thomas aquinas in the middle ages
00:39:04.508 --> 00:39:07.878
And beyond, thought that really the whole aim was
00:39:07.878 --> 00:39:12.183
To go to heaven and see god.
00:39:12.183 --> 00:39:13.617
Now, seeing god is part of the package.
00:39:13.617 --> 00:39:15.853
It's there in the sermon on the mount.
00:39:15.853 --> 00:39:17.354
It's there at the end of revelation, et cetera.
00:39:17.354 --> 00:39:19.523
But it's not the whole and only thing.
00:39:19.523 --> 00:39:22.526
The whole picture is much bigger than that.
00:39:22.526 --> 00:39:24.728
And actually the idea of the soul going to see god
00:39:24.728 --> 00:39:28.332
Sits rather uneasily with the idea
00:39:28.332 --> 00:39:30.334
Of new creation and resurrection.
00:39:30.334 --> 00:39:32.369
Happily, we understand a lot more about the bible now
00:39:32.369 --> 00:39:36.373
Because of massive researches
00:39:36.373 --> 00:39:38.142
That have happened over the last 100 years,
00:39:38.142 --> 00:39:40.177
And i think it's time to get back on track.
00:39:40.177 --> 00:39:42.613
- our forefathers in the faith came to this country
00:39:42.613 --> 00:39:45.583
Under a positive worldview.
00:39:45.583 --> 00:39:49.019
And that was that the kingdom of god was at hand
00:39:50.020 --> 00:39:53.023
And that was that every individual christian's
00:39:53.023 --> 00:39:55.826
Responsibility to do everything he or she could do to expand
00:39:55.826 --> 00:39:58.996
That kingdom in every area of influence
00:39:58.996 --> 00:40:00.965
That they might possibly be able to venture into.
00:40:00.965 --> 00:40:04.068
And they did just that.
00:40:04.068 --> 00:40:05.603
They got on ships and they, many of 'em came to america,
00:40:05.603 --> 00:40:09.173
Founded the churches, the country expanded the churches,
00:40:09.173 --> 00:40:12.776
The country or the moral influencer in society.
00:40:12.776 --> 00:40:16.547
And they did that all under
00:40:16.547 --> 00:40:18.649
What might be called a positive end-time view.
00:40:18.649 --> 00:40:22.353
What happened is that view changed
00:40:22.353 --> 00:40:25.389
To a negative view.
00:40:25.856 --> 00:40:27.658
It's not gonna get fixed until jesus comes back
00:40:27.658 --> 00:40:30.160
And raptures us and takes us outta here.
00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:32.963
So in the meantime, just sit tight
00:40:32.963 --> 00:40:35.332
And wait for jesus to come back and he'll fix it all.
00:40:35.332 --> 00:40:38.536
- so when we talk about the differences in thinking,
00:40:38.536 --> 00:40:42.940
Because we are comparing how the historic church thought
00:40:42.940 --> 00:40:47.211
About the kingdom of god versus how in the last 150 years
00:40:47.211 --> 00:40:52.016
That most of the evangelical,
00:40:52.016 --> 00:40:54.485
That is bible-believing christians have embraced
00:40:54.485 --> 00:40:57.221
What we call dispensational thinking.
00:40:57.221 --> 00:40:59.823
How is it that just these last 150 years,
00:40:59.823 --> 00:41:02.927
This has become the dominant view
00:41:02.927 --> 00:41:05.229
And somehow we lost touch with all the preceding years?
00:41:05.229 --> 00:41:10.034
I mean, and that question does come to mind
00:41:10.034 --> 00:41:12.536
Because when you first learn again.
00:41:12.536 --> 00:41:15.205
Well, our forefathers 500 years ago, believed this,
00:41:15.205 --> 00:41:19.176
How come i was never taught it?
00:41:19.176 --> 00:41:20.878
- the roman catholic church's view
00:41:20.878 --> 00:41:23.280
Was basically the preterist view,
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:25.849
Was that the kingdom of god had come on earth.
00:41:25.849 --> 00:41:29.386
It isn't future, it's present and unfolding
00:41:29.386 --> 00:41:32.790
And the kingdom was established
00:41:32.790 --> 00:41:35.392
When jesus sat down at the right hand of the father,
00:41:35.392 --> 00:41:36.860
Poured out the holy spirit on flesh
00:41:36.860 --> 00:41:39.496
And god's representatives on earth,
00:41:39.496 --> 00:41:42.066
His image bearers on earth, his church,
00:41:42.066 --> 00:41:45.703
Carry out his plans and purposes
00:41:45.703 --> 00:41:47.471
Until his plans and purposes are completed.
00:41:47.471 --> 00:41:49.974
It was the dominant view in...
00:41:49.974 --> 00:41:53.043
Even after the reformation,
00:41:53.043 --> 00:41:54.545
Until our dispensationalist friends came along.
00:41:54.545 --> 00:41:58.616
- [speaker] as far back as i can remember,
00:41:59.483 --> 00:42:01.485
I was taught that one day,
00:42:01.485 --> 00:42:03.387
On a date known only to god the father,
00:42:03.387 --> 00:42:06.390
The global church would be abruptly raptured.
00:42:06.390 --> 00:42:09.293
For years, that belief shaped my faith.
00:42:09.293 --> 00:42:12.396
It shaped how i saw the future,
00:42:12.396 --> 00:42:14.431
Whether i realized it or not.
00:42:14.431 --> 00:42:16.500
But now i'm learning where that idea actually came from
00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:19.970
And it's nothing like i expected.
00:42:19.970 --> 00:42:22.973
- most people have been modern-days trained
00:42:22.973 --> 00:42:26.276
In the dispensational view, but don't know
00:42:26.276 --> 00:42:29.580
How long it's been around or where it's been.
00:42:29.580 --> 00:42:31.148
- the whole pre-millennial dispensational view didn't come
00:42:31.148 --> 00:42:34.284
Into being until the early 1800s
00:42:34.284 --> 00:42:38.689
With the introducer being john nelson darby.
00:42:38.689 --> 00:42:41.925
- long before the pentecostal movement,
00:42:41.925 --> 00:42:44.094
There was an outpouring of the holy spirit
00:42:44.094 --> 00:42:47.364
On the united kingdom.
00:42:47.364 --> 00:42:49.099
It started in scotland amongst a group of people.
00:42:49.099 --> 00:42:52.269
They began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
00:42:52.269 --> 00:42:55.005
- [speaker] the story goes like this.
00:42:55.005 --> 00:42:56.740
During a time of revival, a teenage girl,
00:42:56.740 --> 00:42:59.510
Sick and bedridden, had a vision,
00:42:59.510 --> 00:43:01.812
A vision of people rising up to heaven.
00:43:01.812 --> 00:43:04.515
That vision went on to influence a well-known bible teacher
00:43:04.515 --> 00:43:07.985
Named john nelson darby.
00:43:07.985 --> 00:43:10.454
- [speaker] john nelson darby was the first person
00:43:10.454 --> 00:43:13.424
To come up with this doctrine.
00:43:13.424 --> 00:43:15.492
It was never known before then.
00:43:16.126 --> 00:43:18.362
- dispensationalism has a long and interesting history
00:43:18.362 --> 00:43:22.032
From the 18th century starting points,
00:43:22.032 --> 00:43:24.802
Then through the work of...
00:43:24.802 --> 00:43:27.371
- jn darby particularly,
00:43:27.871 --> 00:43:29.073
And then the scofield reference bible.
00:43:29.073 --> 00:43:31.175
This is not even known much about in britain.
00:43:31.175 --> 00:43:34.745
It's as though one frustrated
00:43:34.745 --> 00:43:38.949
And angry minister who probably is quite right about a lot
00:43:38.949 --> 00:43:43.754
Of abuses in mainstream churches.
00:43:43.754 --> 00:43:45.456
I mean, i come from a mainstream church.
00:43:45.456 --> 00:43:47.925
I am not dewy-eyed about its many failures and problems.
00:43:47.925 --> 00:43:52.496
But the idea that, therefore, you have to construct
00:43:52.496 --> 00:43:55.365
A whole system, which says,
00:43:55.365 --> 00:43:57.935
"well, the age of the church is completely different
00:43:57.935 --> 00:44:00.170
And the kingdom is postponed."
00:44:00.170 --> 00:44:02.272
This just seems to me, if your fundamental principle is
00:44:02.272 --> 00:44:07.544
That we believe in the inspiration
00:44:08.312 --> 00:44:09.580
Of scripture, that it's god given them,
00:44:09.580 --> 00:44:10.748
That's where we must make our start,
00:44:10.748 --> 00:44:13.083
Then this simply won't work.
00:44:13.083 --> 00:44:15.352
(gentle music)
00:44:15.352 --> 00:44:16.854
- there was a whole lot of kind
00:44:16.854 --> 00:44:18.455
Of prophetic speculation going on, and it's in this context
00:44:18.455 --> 00:44:22.960
That john darby sees the seven dispensations
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:26.930
Of god's redemptive work in history,
00:44:26.930 --> 00:44:29.900
And that the church age, the sixth dispensation,
00:44:29.900 --> 00:44:33.937
Had been going on for 2,000 years,
00:44:33.937 --> 00:44:36.173
And there was a seventh dispensation, a millennium
00:44:36.173 --> 00:44:39.443
That was coming at the return of christ.
00:44:39.443 --> 00:44:41.879
- christian leaders did not accept them.
00:44:41.879 --> 00:44:43.647
People thought it sounded cult-like.
00:44:43.647 --> 00:44:46.517
Only a small group of people,
00:44:46.517 --> 00:44:48.252
John nelson darby's people bought into this belief.
00:44:48.252 --> 00:44:52.823
- in a sense, what happened in the 1850s and darby,
00:44:52.823 --> 00:44:55.359
And all that was simply one particular new spin,
00:44:55.359 --> 00:44:59.830
And i think a very dark one, within medieval theories
00:44:59.830 --> 00:45:04.368
About how you get to heaven, and so on.
00:45:04.368 --> 00:45:06.804
And the great reformers, calvin and luther, and so on,
00:45:06.804 --> 00:45:09.373
And my hero, william tyndale, they were trying
00:45:09.373 --> 00:45:11.909
To give biblical answers to the medieval questions,
00:45:11.909 --> 00:45:14.945
But they were still addressing the medieval questions.
00:45:14.945 --> 00:45:17.381
And then darby and his followers are taking
00:45:17.381 --> 00:45:20.784
That one stage further
00:45:20.784 --> 00:45:22.286
And they see the corruption of the church,
00:45:22.286 --> 00:45:24.021
And they say, "no, no, it must be
00:45:24.021 --> 00:45:25.489
That the kingdom has been postponed,
00:45:25.489 --> 00:45:26.857
And we will be snatched away
00:45:26.857 --> 00:45:28.225
From here, et cetera, et cetera."
00:45:28.225 --> 00:45:29.793
Misinterpreting that famous passage in 1 thessalonians 4.
00:45:29.793 --> 00:45:32.863
(gentle music)
00:45:32.863 --> 00:45:34.798
- didn't become well embraced, though,
00:45:34.798 --> 00:45:36.834
Until it was the scofield bible was published in 1909,
00:45:36.834 --> 00:45:40.938
And the scofield bible has marginal notes on every side
00:45:40.938 --> 00:45:45.175
Of the page, and scofield will write
00:45:45.175 --> 00:45:48.412
How he thought a certain verse should be interpreted.
00:45:48.412 --> 00:45:51.114
What scofield did was he took john nelson darby's teachings,
00:45:51.114 --> 00:45:55.886
And he put them in the footnotes of the king james bible,
00:45:55.886 --> 00:46:00.057
And so they were tend to buy this bible, read the footnotes,
00:46:00.057 --> 00:46:03.460
And believe that the footnotes were
00:46:03.460 --> 00:46:04.761
As important as the text.
00:46:04.761 --> 00:46:06.597
And so in the united states,
00:46:06.597 --> 00:46:08.899
This teaching became very popular.
00:46:08.899 --> 00:46:11.435
- especially in the 1940s and '50s.
00:46:11.435 --> 00:46:14.938
The scofield bible became the most popular study bible
00:46:14.938 --> 00:46:18.275
By pastors and bible college students in '60s,
00:46:18.275 --> 00:46:22.846
And now the way of thinking
00:46:22.846 --> 00:46:24.615
That scofield had proposed, called dispensationalism
00:46:24.615 --> 00:46:28.452
Became embraced by many television evangelists.
00:46:28.452 --> 00:46:32.389
(congregation applauds)
00:46:32.389 --> 00:46:33.323
- that's right, citizenship.
00:46:33.323 --> 00:46:34.825
- when we understand that my hope is not to escape here
00:46:34.825 --> 00:46:37.628
And go somewhere else,
00:46:37.628 --> 00:46:39.029
But to be part of god's whole new creation,
00:46:39.029 --> 00:46:43.600
And when we understand that that's already begun by the work
00:46:43.600 --> 00:46:46.603
Of the spirit in my life, in my heart,
00:46:46.603 --> 00:46:49.339
Then i have both incentive and motive,
00:46:49.339 --> 00:46:52.542
And please god's strength to start living like that.
00:46:52.542 --> 00:46:56.914
- part of the expanding
00:46:56.914 --> 00:46:58.181
Of the kingdom is us realizing not things
00:46:58.181 --> 00:47:01.184
That weren't true in the past.
00:47:01.184 --> 00:47:02.786
Now we're simply discovering things
00:47:02.786 --> 00:47:04.187
That were written in the scripture,
00:47:04.187 --> 00:47:06.857
But we didn't see 'em the same way.
00:47:06.857 --> 00:47:08.859
We're suddenly realizing, oh, that's what that means.
00:47:08.859 --> 00:47:11.762
- i saw the bible telling a story
00:47:11.762 --> 00:47:13.830
Of jesus' coming in fulfillment
00:47:13.830 --> 00:47:16.366
Of all old testament prophecy
00:47:16.366 --> 00:47:18.568
And establishing something in the earth that was designed
00:47:18.568 --> 00:47:21.672
To be victorious.
00:47:21.672 --> 00:47:23.073
So many scriptures began to snap into focus to me,
00:47:23.073 --> 00:47:25.609
Scriptures that until i'd seen them, i just,
00:47:25.609 --> 00:47:30.447
My eyes kind of glazed over when i read them
00:47:31.381 --> 00:47:32.883
'cause they did not compute.
00:47:32.883 --> 00:47:34.584
They didn't mean anything to me.
00:47:34.584 --> 00:47:36.687
But then i began to see
00:47:36.687 --> 00:47:38.588
And embrace a different story for the history
00:47:38.588 --> 00:47:42.025
Of jesus' body in the earth.
00:47:42.025 --> 00:47:44.695
- the kingdom of god was not just a future event
00:47:44.695 --> 00:47:48.832
Like i had been taught with my dispensational theology,
00:47:48.832 --> 00:47:52.135
But that it actually started 2,000 years ago
00:47:52.135 --> 00:47:54.671
When jesus ascended into heaven and sat on his throne.
00:47:54.671 --> 00:47:57.607
(lighthearted music)
00:47:57.607 --> 00:47:58.775
So, not only did jesus rule in heaven,
00:47:58.775 --> 00:48:01.912
But i became convinced
00:48:01.912 --> 00:48:03.480
That his reign is on the earth, growing as seeds in the soil
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:08.852
Like many of jesus's parables explain,
00:48:09.653 --> 00:48:11.455
They start in a few seeds and get bigger and bigger
00:48:11.455 --> 00:48:13.957
And bigger, still believing that jesus will return
00:48:13.957 --> 00:48:18.228
And he will ultimately put an end all evil.
00:48:18.228 --> 00:48:21.365
- we don't bring the kingdom by our own efforts.
00:48:21.365 --> 00:48:24.134
God brings god's kingdom in god's way, he build for the.
00:48:24.134 --> 00:48:27.504
- kingdom.
00:48:27.804 --> 00:48:29.172
We are called to do things in the present time,
00:48:29.172 --> 00:48:31.274
Which are both signposts towards the eventual kingdom
00:48:31.274 --> 00:48:34.845
And also genuine anticipations of that kingdom.
00:48:34.845 --> 00:48:39.182
- we are literally heaven's hope as it were.
00:48:39.182 --> 00:48:43.553
Holy spirit indwells us. christ indwells us.
00:48:43.553 --> 00:48:46.423
The father indwells us by our faith,
00:48:46.423 --> 00:48:48.325
By his word, by his spirit.
00:48:48.325 --> 00:48:51.161
And the word says that literally the the hope of glory
00:48:51.161 --> 00:48:55.766
Is christ revealed in us
00:48:55.766 --> 00:48:58.902
That's the church.
00:48:58.902 --> 00:49:00.303
- no, we are spreaders of good news.
00:49:00.303 --> 00:49:03.273
And that's my invitation.
00:49:03.273 --> 00:49:05.175
To be saved is not you don't want to go to hell.
00:49:05.175 --> 00:49:08.345
That's a good initiative.
00:49:08.345 --> 00:49:10.047
But it's not as good as join a kingdom
00:49:10.047 --> 00:49:13.617
Where jesus is king.
00:49:13.617 --> 00:49:15.085
- and that's what we, christians are called to do,
00:49:15.085 --> 00:49:18.221
Is to advance the kingdom.
00:49:18.221 --> 00:49:20.257
God's will reign and rule in every aspect of their life
00:49:20.257 --> 00:49:24.761
And society that god leads them into.
00:49:24.761 --> 00:49:27.831
But whatever the lord has ordained for us,
00:49:27.831 --> 00:49:31.902
Wouldn't we wanna live that to the fullest?
00:49:32.803 --> 00:49:35.639
- the kingdom doesn't move at the speed
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:37.641
Of catastrophic wars, rumors of wars.
00:49:37.641 --> 00:49:41.244
The kingdom builds cell by cell gradually.
00:49:41.244 --> 00:49:45.215
And as isaiah said, of the increase
00:49:45.215 --> 00:49:49.286
Of his government and peace, there will be no end.
00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:53.156
- you know, the reason i think all of this
00:49:53.156 --> 00:49:54.591
Or any of this matters is
00:49:54.591 --> 00:49:55.926
Because it's what god wants us to be today.
00:49:55.926 --> 00:49:58.862
Who are you today?
00:49:58.862 --> 00:50:00.697
He wants me to be busy about the father's business.
00:50:00.697 --> 00:50:04.401
Walk in the anointing, build the businesses i've called you
00:50:04.401 --> 00:50:07.437
To build, establish the churches.
00:50:07.437 --> 00:50:10.574
Find a revelation that changes your life
00:50:10.574 --> 00:50:13.443
And share it with the world.
00:50:13.443 --> 00:50:15.579
Literally go and evangelize
00:50:15.579 --> 00:50:18.315
And become the body of christ.
00:50:18.315 --> 00:50:20.717
We really are the body of christ.
00:50:20.717 --> 00:50:22.486
What does this all mean?
00:50:22.486 --> 00:50:24.121
It means what the angel said, don't stand here and gaze up.
00:50:24.121 --> 00:50:27.124
Go and do what i've called you to do.
00:50:27.124 --> 00:50:28.925
- i'm here like square your shoulders, lift up your chin.
00:50:28.925 --> 00:50:32.329
We are the glorious church and the body of christ.
00:50:32.329 --> 00:50:35.632
And he is the king.
00:50:35.632 --> 00:50:37.434
- and so the more i studied,
00:50:37.434 --> 00:50:39.169
The more my questions were answered.
00:50:39.169 --> 00:50:41.671
Eventually i shared, shared it with my church.
00:50:41.671 --> 00:50:44.841
And as i saw people being set free from fear
00:50:45.742 --> 00:50:48.245
And anxiety about the future
00:50:48.245 --> 00:50:50.647
And living much more fulfilled christian lives,
00:50:50.647 --> 00:50:54.251
That was when i realized this is not only true,
00:50:55.185 --> 00:50:57.754
It's important.
00:50:57.754 --> 00:51:00.023
- but the one thing that i will dig my heels on,
00:51:00.991 --> 00:51:03.860
And this is the only thing that i care about at some point.
00:51:03.860 --> 00:51:08.431
I am gonna dig my heels in on this.
00:51:08.431 --> 00:51:11.034
If somebody is suggesting any kind of a theology
00:51:11.034 --> 00:51:14.404
Or an eschatology that doesn't have us empowered now,
00:51:14.404 --> 00:51:22.679
There's only three parts of god that's ever mentioned.
00:51:23.780 --> 00:51:26.917
God, the father, the son, the holy spirit.
00:51:26.917 --> 00:51:29.486
They're very clearly defined.
00:51:29.486 --> 00:51:31.521
And the holy spirit was left with us.
00:51:31.521 --> 00:51:33.723
The power was left with us.
00:51:33.723 --> 00:51:36.927
And if somebody is suggesting that we are not empowered
00:51:36.927 --> 00:51:41.231
To do everything god's called us to do,
00:51:41.231 --> 00:51:44.267
That's when we're gonna have a problem.
00:51:44.267 --> 00:51:46.970
We're gonna have a problem here.
00:51:46.970 --> 00:51:48.371
And that's what we're gonna have a problem with.
00:51:48.371 --> 00:51:51.007
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth
00:51:51.007 --> 00:51:53.877
As it is in heaven.
00:51:53.877 --> 00:51:55.445
Working towards that goal
00:51:55.445 --> 00:51:57.614
That we aren't hoping for marines
00:51:57.614 --> 00:52:00.283
To come and rescue us from heaven.
00:52:00.283 --> 00:52:01.851
We are the marines and we are to take beachhead
00:52:01.851 --> 00:52:05.355
After beachhead after beachhead into a victorious future.
00:52:05.355 --> 00:52:09.926
Feels like a story that feels new,
00:52:09.926 --> 00:52:13.930
But is really the traditional view
00:52:14.698 --> 00:52:16.399
Throughout church history.
00:52:16.399 --> 00:52:17.968
(epic music)
00:52:17.968 --> 00:52:27.877
- [narrator] next time on "god with us."
00:52:28.712 --> 00:52:31.648
- daniel 9 is a very complex oracle.
00:52:32.449 --> 00:52:36.253
The messiah did come in about 490 years
00:52:36.253 --> 00:52:39.756
And that messiah was jesus christ.
00:52:39.756 --> 00:52:41.891
- [participant] jesus said, jerusalem will be destroyed.
00:52:41.891 --> 00:52:46.129
- when you talk about great tribulation, not in the future,
00:52:46.129 --> 00:52:50.500
Jesus said these days.
00:52:50.500 --> 00:52:53.637
- the book of revelation is a prophecy
00:52:53.637 --> 00:52:56.640
Of jesus christ holdin' the language of symbols.
00:52:56.640 --> 00:53:00.176
- when people go to revelation is they still think most
00:53:00.176 --> 00:53:02.946
Of it is future, but the first 19 chapters
00:53:02.946 --> 00:53:07.117
Are clearly passed.
00:53:07.117 --> 00:53:08.752
- if you read the book of revelation,
00:53:08.752 --> 00:53:10.220
You won't find the word antichrist there at all.
00:53:10.220 --> 00:53:13.657
- the rapture mentality has meant
00:53:13.657 --> 00:53:15.759
That people have been living out of a whole narrative,
00:53:15.759 --> 00:53:18.762
Which is superimposed onto the bible, which is not the story
00:53:18.762 --> 00:53:22.666
That the bible is telling.
00:53:22.666 --> 00:53:24.367
(epic music)
00:53:24.367 --> 00:53:24.367

God With Us: Rethinking The End By Going Back to the Beginning

October 24, 2025 | 55:6

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