In this episode, God With Us takes a deep dive into three pivotal sections of Scripture—Daniel 9, Matthew 24, and Revelation. Through careful study and fresh insight, the episode uncovers new perspectives on prophecy, timing, and fulfillment, and explores how these passages connect across the Bible’s grand narrative, revealing a deeper understanding of God’s plan and presence throughout history and into the future.
#Prophecy
#Eschatology
#EndTimes
#Bible
#Study
#Theology
#Culture
#Symbolism
#Revelation
#Tribulation
#Israel
Closed captions
Show Timecode
| Prophecy Decoded: From Daniel to Revelation | God With Us | October 31, 2025
- Male announcer: previously on "god with us."
- 00:00:00.023 --> 00:00:02.559
- David holland: the world is supposed to get worse and worse,
- 00:00:02.659 --> 00:00:04.828
- But then right at the very, very last moment as it's super dark,
- 00:00:04.928 --> 00:00:08.631
- Jesus is gonna come back and set everything right.
- 00:00:09.632 --> 00:00:12.569
- David currie: this false promise that somehow we were gonna get
- 00:00:12.569 --> 00:00:16.506
- Caught away and then the world was gonna go to hell in a
- 00:00:16.506 --> 00:00:19.843
- Hand-basket, and it's just not in scripture.
- 00:00:19.843 --> 00:00:23.580
- Harold eberle: how is it that just these last 150 years this
- 00:00:23.580 --> 00:00:26.850
- Has become the dominant view and somehow we lost touch?
- 00:00:26.850 --> 00:00:31.554
- David holland: i believe with all my heart that that's not the
- 00:00:31.554 --> 00:00:33.923
- Story your bible is telling.
- 00:00:33.923 --> 00:00:35.325
- N.t. wright: the new age has been inaugurated, the kingdom of
- 00:00:35.325 --> 00:00:37.760
- God has begun on earth as in heaven, and we get to be part
- 00:00:37.760 --> 00:00:41.764
- Of it.
- 00:00:41.764 --> 00:00:43.733
- David currie: daniel 9 is a very complex oracle.
- 00:00:43.733 --> 00:00:47.604
- The long and the short of it is the messiah did come in about
- 00:00:47.604 --> 00:00:51.241
- 490 years, which is 70 times 7, and that messiah was
- 00:00:51.241 --> 00:00:55.612
- Jesus christ.
- 00:00:55.612 --> 00:00:56.980
- That's the message of daniel 9. david holland: matthew 24 in the
- 00:00:56.980 --> 00:01:01.985
- Popular dominant view of the end times is looked at almost more
- 00:01:01.985 --> 00:01:05.488
- Than any other chapter.
- 00:01:05.488 --> 00:01:08.224
- Harold eberle: jesus said jerusalem will be destroyed.
- 00:01:08.224 --> 00:01:12.428
- John noe: in ad 70 we have the jewish-roman war.
- 00:01:12.428 --> 00:01:16.399
- Harold eberle: many christians have never heard about it before
- 00:01:16.399 --> 00:01:19.502
- When the roman government sent soldiers to destroy the city
- 00:01:19.502 --> 00:01:23.840
- Of jerusalem.
- 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:25.508
- Mike hayes: when you talk about great tribulation, not in the
- 00:01:25.508 --> 00:01:28.845
- Future, jesus said these days there will be great tribulation
- 00:01:28.845 --> 00:01:34.884
- Such as the world has never seen or will ever see again.
- 00:01:34.884 --> 00:01:40.223
- Martin trench: the book of revelation is a prophecy of
- 00:01:40.223 --> 00:01:44.194
- Jesus christ told in the language of symbols.
- 00:01:44.194 --> 00:01:48.932
- David currie: i think the problem when people go to
- 00:01:48.932 --> 00:01:51.334
- Revelation is they still think most of it is future.
- 00:01:51.334 --> 00:01:54.837
- Now, there is an element of revelation that's future, but
- 00:01:54.837 --> 00:01:58.007
- The first 19 chapters are clearly past.
- 00:01:58.007 --> 00:02:02.879
- Matt crouch: our beautiful production is simply saying,
- 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:05.782
- Hey, what if there is a victorious eschatology ahead?
- 00:02:05.782 --> 00:02:11.554
- What if there's a victory?
- 00:02:11.554 --> 00:02:13.556
- [music]
- 00:02:13.556 --> 00:02:26.169
- Announcer: tonight, a journey to rediscover the hope, purpose,
- 00:02:18.561 --> 00:02:29.539
- And victory jesus entrusted to his church and to finally trade
- 00:02:29.539 --> 00:02:33.843
- Our fear of the end for faith in a future that just may have
- 00:02:33.843 --> 00:02:37.880
- Already begun.
- 00:02:37.880 --> 00:02:40.083
- This is "god with us," rethinking the end by going back
- 00:02:40.083 --> 00:02:43.786
- To the beginning.
- 00:02:43.786 --> 00:02:49.425
- Female: end times passages are often filled with confusing
- 00:02:50.593 --> 00:02:54.030
- Images like dragons, beasts, and stars falling from the sky.
- 00:02:54.030 --> 00:03:00.303
- I've heard it referred to as apocalyptic literature, but what
- 00:03:00.303 --> 00:03:05.208
- Exactly is that?
- 00:03:05.208 --> 00:03:09.712
- Martin trench: apocalyptic language is--it is a genre of
- 00:03:10.847 --> 00:03:15.451
- Language, and apocalyptic writings was a particular genre
- 00:03:15.451 --> 00:03:20.390
- Of prophetic writing that was popular from about 100 bc to
- 00:03:20.390 --> 00:03:25.695
- About 100 ad.
- 00:03:25.695 --> 00:03:27.463
- Even outside the bible, they are prophetic and mystical writings
- 00:03:27.463 --> 00:03:32.602
- Where a lot of symbolism is used and things are spoken about in
- 00:03:32.602 --> 00:03:38.341
- Very poetic language rather than literal language.
- 00:03:38.341 --> 00:03:42.478
- So we will see things all the way through the old testament,
- 00:03:42.478 --> 00:03:45.381
- Like, behold, the stars are falling from the sky.
- 00:03:45.381 --> 00:03:50.186
- The bible will say that again and again over the fall of
- 00:03:50.186 --> 00:03:52.855
- Babylon or nineveh or some other city, and those cities did fall,
- 00:03:52.855 --> 00:03:57.493
- The prophecies were fulfilled, but no stars actually fell out
- 00:03:57.493 --> 00:04:00.630
- Of the sky.
- 00:04:00.630 --> 00:04:01.998
- It's not up to us to decide what those figures of speech mean,
- 00:04:01.998 --> 00:04:06.302
- It's up to us to look at the old testament and see how the bible
- 00:04:06.302 --> 00:04:10.306
- Consistently uses them and then continue to use them into the
- 00:04:10.306 --> 00:04:15.611
- New testament the same way.
- 00:04:15.611 --> 00:04:17.714
- David currie: all the symbolism that we find in revelation is in
- 00:04:17.714 --> 00:04:22.118
- The old testament.
- 00:04:22.118 --> 00:04:24.687
- Revelation is written with the exact same outline as daniel,
- 00:04:24.687 --> 00:04:31.361
- And daniel copies his outline from genesis with the story of
- 00:04:31.361 --> 00:04:36.466
- Joseph, so daniel's dependent on joseph, john, when he writes
- 00:04:36.466 --> 00:04:41.504
- Revelation, is dependent on daniel, and if we don't go back
- 00:04:41.504 --> 00:04:45.141
- And see what those symbols mean in the major prophets,
- 00:04:45.141 --> 00:04:48.511
- Particularly daniel, but also isaiah, jeremiah, ezekiel, and
- 00:04:48.511 --> 00:04:52.248
- Also zechariah, if we take those symbols and just draw pictures
- 00:04:52.248 --> 00:04:56.652
- Of them without looking and seeing what they actually meant
- 00:04:56.652 --> 00:04:59.622
- In the old testament, we're gonna go down the wrong track,
- 00:04:59.622 --> 00:05:02.725
- And i think that's where the wrong track happened.
- 00:05:02.725 --> 00:05:06.162
- John noe: often in the bible, god uses cosmic-collapsing
- 00:05:06.162 --> 00:05:09.632
- Language or cosmic-destruction language to illustrate and to
- 00:05:09.632 --> 00:05:15.204
- Show the severity of a local event.
- 00:05:15.204 --> 00:05:19.075
- It's not the destruction--it's never the destruction of
- 00:05:19.075 --> 00:05:23.212
- Planet earth.
- 00:05:23.212 --> 00:05:24.580
- Planet earth has been created, and it lasts forever.
- 00:05:24.580 --> 00:05:27.984
- David currie: so the imagery that we see in the new testament
- 00:05:27.984 --> 00:05:31.454
- In revelation and the olivet discourse, when we perceive that
- 00:05:31.454 --> 00:05:36.025
- It is apocalyptic, we need to go to isaiah, jeremiah, ezekiel,
- 00:05:36.025 --> 00:05:40.630
- Daniel, and zechariah to see what john or jesus might have
- 00:05:40.630 --> 00:05:46.235
- Had in their mind when they were saying this.
- 00:05:46.235 --> 00:05:50.206
- I can guarantee that in isaiah, jeremiah, ezekiel, daniel, and
- 00:05:50.206 --> 00:05:53.409
- Zechariah, you will not find any nuclear missiles, okay?
- 00:05:53.409 --> 00:05:57.313
- So, nuclear missiles are not part of apocalyptic imagery.
- 00:05:57.313 --> 00:06:02.618
- Male announcer: in the end times debate, three texts stand at the
- 00:06:03.820 --> 00:06:06.789
- Center of contention, daniel 9, matthew 24, and the book
- 00:06:06.789 --> 00:06:10.860
- Of revelation.
- 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:12.795
- Together they form the three pillars of end times theology.
- 00:06:12.795 --> 00:06:17.834
- Many western christians, although maybe unaware of the
- 00:06:18.935 --> 00:06:21.737
- Terminology, hold the dispensational view.
- 00:06:21.737 --> 00:06:26.075
- They read these passages through a future-oriented lens.
- 00:06:26.075 --> 00:06:30.079
- For dispensationalists, daniel 9 is the key.
- 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:34.550
- It is a timeline, a countdown pointing to israel's return, a
- 00:06:34.550 --> 00:06:38.788
- Future antichrist, and a seven-year tribulation.
- 00:06:38.788 --> 00:06:42.859
- From these verses, john darby built the framework of
- 00:06:42.859 --> 00:06:45.928
- Dispensational theology circa the 1830s, meaning the rapture
- 00:06:45.928 --> 00:06:51.534
- Has only been around for roughly two centuries.
- 00:06:51.534 --> 00:06:56.005
- But the early church saw it differently.
- 00:06:56.005 --> 00:06:59.141
- To them, daniel's vision pointed to christ, jerusalem, and the
- 00:06:59.141 --> 00:07:03.079
- Covenant story of israel.
- 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:06.082
- One chapter, two lenses, and which one we choose
- 00:07:06.082 --> 00:07:10.119
- Changes everything.
- 00:07:10.119 --> 00:07:14.156
- David currie: daniel 9 is a very, very complex oracle, okay?
- 00:07:14.156 --> 00:07:20.496
- For those people that don't understand what daniel 9 is,
- 00:07:20.496 --> 00:07:23.599
- Daniel's praying, he's concerned because he expected the kingdom
- 00:07:23.599 --> 00:07:29.639
- To have been founded by now.
- 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.775
- Cyrus allowed the jews to go back to jerusalem, but the
- 00:07:32.775 --> 00:07:38.014
- Temple hadn't been rebuilt.
- 00:07:38.014 --> 00:07:40.016
- It wasn't looking like daniel thought it should, so he's
- 00:07:40.016 --> 00:07:43.653
- Praying, he's fasting, and an angel comes and gives him
- 00:07:43.653 --> 00:07:47.089
- An oracle.
- 00:07:47.089 --> 00:07:49.825
- Announcer: "know and understand this, from the time the word
- 00:07:49.825 --> 00:07:52.728
- Goes out to restore and rebuild jerusalem until the anointed
- 00:07:52.728 --> 00:07:56.365
- One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven sevens and
- 00:07:56.365 --> 00:08:00.069
- Sixty-two sevens.
- 00:08:00.069 --> 00:08:01.804
- It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times
- 00:08:01.804 --> 00:08:05.541
- Of trouble."
- 00:08:05.541 --> 00:08:08.411
- Harold eberle: and this one's unique because the jewish people
- 00:08:08.411 --> 00:08:11.948
- In the days of daniel, they had been in slavery for 70 years.
- 00:08:11.948 --> 00:08:18.054
- They had been taken out of the promised land, and they had been
- 00:08:18.054 --> 00:08:22.925
- Taken to babylon, and in babylon they were crying out to god,
- 00:08:22.925 --> 00:08:28.698
- God, when are we gonna get free?
- 00:08:28.698 --> 00:08:30.299
- When can we go back to our homeland?
- 00:08:30.299 --> 00:08:32.735
- And that's what daniel chapter 9 is about.
- 00:08:32.735 --> 00:08:35.638
- Daniel's actually praying, saying when will my people
- 00:08:35.638 --> 00:08:40.376
- Be free?
- 00:08:40.376 --> 00:08:41.744
- And what will be the future of my people?
- 00:08:41.744 --> 00:08:45.247
- In answer to daniel's prayer, the angel named gabriel came.
- 00:08:45.247 --> 00:08:50.186
- Here is an angel telling daniel the jews are gonna be in slavery
- 00:08:50.186 --> 00:08:54.357
- For 70 years, then there'll be a decree, and then in 483 years
- 00:08:54.357 --> 00:09:00.463
- The messiah will come.
- 00:09:00.463 --> 00:09:02.832
- And they already knew that messiah had been promised.
- 00:09:02.832 --> 00:09:06.769
- They were all looking for messiah.
- 00:09:06.769 --> 00:09:09.205
- Exactly as it was promised, jesus came in the year 27,
- 00:09:09.205 --> 00:09:14.276
- Stepped out, and began his ministry.
- 00:09:14.276 --> 00:09:18.014
- David currie: the long and the short of it is the messiah did
- 00:09:18.014 --> 00:09:20.149
- Come in about 490 years, which is 70 times 7, and that messiah
- 00:09:20.149 --> 00:09:26.322
- Was jesus christ.
- 00:09:26.322 --> 00:09:27.657
- That's the message of daniel 9. it's not--it says nothing about
- 00:09:27.657 --> 00:09:33.863
- The second advent, it says nothing about a rapture, all of
- 00:09:33.863 --> 00:09:38.200
- Daniel 9 is history.
- 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:42.138
- Announcer: "after the sixty-two sevens, the anointed one will be
- 00:09:43.372 --> 00:09:46.409
- Put to death and will have nothing.
- 00:09:46.409 --> 00:09:48.678
- The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and
- 00:09:48.678 --> 00:09:52.314
- The sanctuary.
- 00:09:52.314 --> 00:09:54.083
- The end will come like a flood; war will continue until the end,
- 00:09:54.083 --> 00:09:58.187
- And desolations have been decreed."
- 00:09:58.187 --> 00:10:02.725
- David holland: but there's this moment in that passage where it
- 00:10:02.725 --> 00:10:05.194
- Says that after 69 weeks of years, the messiah will be cut
- 00:10:05.194 --> 00:10:10.566
- Off, which is if you're a jewish person in daniel's time, that's
- 00:10:10.566 --> 00:10:14.970
- A pretty surprising thing, to think about the messiah being
- 00:10:14.970 --> 00:10:17.707
- Cut off, that's an odd concept.
- 00:10:17.707 --> 00:10:20.810
- So it's one of those passages that basically is so remarkable
- 00:10:20.810 --> 00:10:25.681
- In its accuracy to predict the arrival, the season of time in
- 00:10:25.681 --> 00:10:30.152
- Which jesus came, but it's also remarkable because it predicted
- 00:10:30.152 --> 00:10:34.023
- That he would die.
- 00:10:34.023 --> 00:10:35.725
- It's a really, really interesting passage that i
- 00:10:35.725 --> 00:10:39.595
- Think--and if you take the bible seriously, validates how
- 00:10:39.595 --> 00:10:43.666
- Amazingly accurate daniel's prophecies are.
- 00:10:43.666 --> 00:10:47.503
- N.t. wright: for me, one of the key passages is daniel 9, where
- 00:10:47.503 --> 00:10:50.573
- You've got the promise that the exile will last not for 70
- 00:10:50.573 --> 00:10:54.877
- Years, as jeremiah had said, but for 70 times 7. there are people
- 00:10:54.877 --> 00:10:58.280
- In jesus' world who are calculating when the 490 will be
- 00:10:58.280 --> 00:11:01.784
- Up, people in the dead sea scrolls who reckon it should be
- 00:11:01.784 --> 00:11:05.321
- Happening around then, which is exactly when jesus is born and
- 00:11:05.321 --> 00:11:09.492
- Beginning his public career.
- 00:11:09.492 --> 00:11:11.694
- And so the idea of the time is fulfilled and the kingdom is
- 00:11:11.694 --> 00:11:15.364
- Happening, very much related to daniel but not by projecting
- 00:11:15.364 --> 00:11:19.235
- Daniel forward into the 20th or 21st century, but by saying this
- 00:11:19.235 --> 00:11:23.439
- Is all happening now.
- 00:11:23.439 --> 00:11:25.541
- John noe: here is a chronological timeline of how
- 00:11:25.541 --> 00:11:31.080
- This happened, specifically, exactly, no gaps, no gimmicks, a
- 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:37.953
- Starting point with the decree of artaxerxes and 457 bc in the
- 00:11:37.953 --> 00:11:45.394
- Middle of the final week, the crucifixion of jesus here, and
- 00:11:45.394 --> 00:11:51.433
- Then with his resurrection and how all this took place
- 00:11:51.433 --> 00:11:56.472
- Chronologically, sequentially, and exactly.
- 00:11:56.472 --> 00:12:01.477
- Harold eberle: when jesus died on the cross, he put an end to
- 00:12:01.477 --> 00:12:06.282
- The jewish religious system.
- 00:12:06.282 --> 00:12:08.818
- He was the final sacrifice.
- 00:12:08.818 --> 00:12:12.621
- So now we've identified how the historic church understood that
- 00:12:12.621 --> 00:12:17.593
- Daniel's 70th week, but we only talked about the first
- 00:12:17.593 --> 00:12:19.929
- 3 1/2 years.
- 00:12:19.929 --> 00:12:21.697
- Let's talk about the last 3 1/2, years because that's also
- 00:12:21.697 --> 00:12:25.334
- Important, and all 7 years are supposed to be a time of jewish
- 00:12:25.334 --> 00:12:28.504
- Favor, first 3 1/2 of it, jesus was alive talking to them.
- 00:12:28.504 --> 00:12:34.844
- They had the greatest privilege of any people on earth, the
- 00:12:34.844 --> 00:12:38.147
- Jews did.
- 00:12:38.147 --> 00:12:39.481
- They had jesus walking and preaching, but even after jesus
- 00:12:39.481 --> 00:12:43.052
- Died, he instructed his disciples to first speak the
- 00:12:43.052 --> 00:12:47.423
- Message to the jews, and we know in the book of acts the
- 00:12:47.423 --> 00:12:51.493
- Disciples focused on just presenting the gospel for
- 00:12:51.493 --> 00:12:55.264
- 3 1/2 years.
- 00:12:55.264 --> 00:12:57.132
- We can add from the death of jesus another 3 1/2 years, and
- 00:12:57.132 --> 00:13:01.737
- Where do we come to?
- 00:13:01.737 --> 00:13:03.172
- We come to acts chapter 7, where stephen was stoned to death.
- 00:13:03.172 --> 00:13:08.410
- The reason that is so important is because stephen was
- 00:13:08.410 --> 00:13:12.047
- Presenting the gospel, huge crowd of jews, but significantly
- 00:13:12.047 --> 00:13:16.919
- The high priest was present.
- 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:19.889
- And with the high priest, they stoned stephen to death.
- 00:13:19.889 --> 00:13:23.726
- That was like the ultimate rejection of jesus christ.
- 00:13:23.726 --> 00:13:28.264
- That comes at the very time of the last 3 1/2 years, and what
- 00:13:28.264 --> 00:13:33.769
- Happens next?
- 00:13:33.769 --> 00:13:35.170
- Acts chapter 9, saul gets struck by light and told by god, "go
- 00:13:35.170 --> 00:13:39.842
- Preach now to the gentiles."
- 00:13:39.842 --> 00:13:41.477
- Acts chapter 10 peter has a sheet lowered down to him, and
- 00:13:41.477 --> 00:13:45.781
- God says, "now go speak to the gentiles."
- 00:13:45.781 --> 00:13:48.584
- And now the gospel is being preached to the whole world, and
- 00:13:48.584 --> 00:13:52.688
- It has been since then, not to exclude the jews, because they
- 00:13:52.688 --> 00:13:57.726
- Can also receive jesus christ, but now the message of the
- 00:13:57.726 --> 00:14:01.864
- Gospel has been erupted from within the jewish system and
- 00:14:01.864 --> 00:14:07.636
- Been scattered abroad, and now jesus says go into all the world
- 00:14:07.636 --> 00:14:12.074
- And proclaim the gospel.
- 00:14:12.074 --> 00:14:13.742
- So that's how we would understand daniel chapter 9, but
- 00:14:13.742 --> 00:14:18.414
- It's important to know that this is the view of the majority of
- 00:14:18.414 --> 00:14:22.651
- The church, not just in the past, not in the first 1800
- 00:14:22.651 --> 00:14:27.323
- Years, but actually even today most mainline churches like
- 00:14:27.323 --> 00:14:32.194
- Catholicism, orthodox christianity, many of the
- 00:14:32.194 --> 00:14:36.432
- Mainline churches like most presbyterians, most methodists,
- 00:14:36.432 --> 00:14:41.337
- Most lutherans would all explain it the way i'm explaining it
- 00:14:41.337 --> 00:14:45.307
- Right now.
- 00:14:45.307 --> 00:14:46.675
- The problem is many of the christians that we've hung
- 00:14:46.675 --> 00:14:49.244
- Around don't fit into those major denominations, and they've
- 00:14:49.244 --> 00:14:52.614
- Never even heard that explanation.
- 00:14:52.614 --> 00:14:54.883
- They've heard the dispensational view that it'll be 7 years in
- 00:14:54.883 --> 00:14:58.153
- The future, and it's the antichrist, but people like me
- 00:14:58.153 --> 00:15:01.290
- Would say, no, that 7 years happened in the first century,
- 00:15:01.290 --> 00:15:05.361
- And it was fulfilled by jesus christ.
- 00:15:05.361 --> 00:15:11.008
- And it was fulfilled by jesus christ.
- 00:15:11.008 --> 00:15:11.768
- [music]
- 00:15:12.002 --> 00:15:16.473
- Female: much like daniel 9, matthew 24 stands at the center
- 00:15:16.473 --> 00:15:20.477
- Of the dispensational view.
- 00:15:20.477 --> 00:15:23.279
- Here jesus speaks of a great tribulation, wars and rumors of
- 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:27.951
- Wars, false messiahs and stars falling from the sky.
- 00:15:27.951 --> 00:15:32.689
- Dispensationalists read this as a timeline of the last days, a
- 00:15:32.689 --> 00:15:36.893
- Sequence of events still waiting to unfold.
- 00:15:36.893 --> 00:15:39.996
- But after seeing daniel 9 in a new light, i can't help but
- 00:15:39.996 --> 00:15:44.034
- Wonder, could the same be true here?
- 00:15:44.034 --> 00:15:46.770
- If the early church read these words as speaking to their own
- 00:15:46.770 --> 00:15:50.573
- Generation fulfilled in the fall of jerusalem, then maybe matthew
- 00:15:50.573 --> 00:15:54.944
- 24 isn't a countdown to the end, but a vision of how christ's
- 00:15:54.944 --> 00:15:59.449
- Kingdom was already breaking in.
- 00:15:59.449 --> 00:16:03.586
- David holland: matthew 24, in the popular dominant view of the
- 00:16:04.754 --> 00:16:08.825
- End times is probably looked at almost more than any other
- 00:16:08.825 --> 00:16:12.495
- Chapter in the whole bible outside of the book of
- 00:16:12.495 --> 00:16:15.165
- Revelation, and it has a parallel passage in luke
- 00:16:15.165 --> 00:16:18.635
- Chapter 17.
- 00:16:18.635 --> 00:16:21.171
- The folks who advocate the dominant narrative always point
- 00:16:21.171 --> 00:16:24.741
- To matthew 24, because it's more helpful to their cause than
- 00:16:24.741 --> 00:16:27.811
- Luke 17 is.
- 00:16:27.811 --> 00:16:29.612
- But basically both passages are a recorded conversation spurred
- 00:16:29.612 --> 00:16:35.018
- By a question.
- 00:16:35.018 --> 00:16:37.887
- Jesus and the disciples are walking by the temple, one of
- 00:16:37.887 --> 00:16:41.157
- The disciples points to the temple and says, "isn't
- 00:16:41.157 --> 00:16:43.126
- It magnificent?"
- 00:16:43.126 --> 00:16:44.494
- And jesus said, "well, take a good look, because the time's
- 00:16:44.494 --> 00:16:46.796
- Coming when it's gonna be completely torn down, and not
- 00:16:46.796 --> 00:16:50.033
- One stone is gonna be left upon another."
- 00:16:50.033 --> 00:16:53.002
- And then everything that follows in that chapter is basically
- 00:16:53.002 --> 00:16:56.673
- Jesus's response to their questions about that.
- 00:16:56.673 --> 00:16:59.676
- Dudley hall: in matthew 23, jesus had a series of woes for
- 00:16:59.676 --> 00:17:04.714
- The pharisees, the unbelieving hard-nosed jews, jewish leaders,
- 00:17:04.714 --> 00:17:08.818
- And he walked away from the temple and said, "your house is
- 00:17:08.818 --> 00:17:13.556
- Left to you desolate."
- 00:17:13.556 --> 00:17:14.891
- So he was saying this is not my house anymore, this temple that
- 00:17:14.891 --> 00:17:18.294
- You admire so much.
- 00:17:18.294 --> 00:17:20.964
- David currie: the seven woes are how everything is gonna happen
- 00:17:20.964 --> 00:17:24.067
- Bad, and he uses the phrase, "to this generation,"
- 00:17:24.067 --> 00:17:28.138
- This generation of pharisees and scribes.
- 00:17:28.138 --> 00:17:30.840
- Then he looks at the temple and he says, "and every stone of
- 00:17:30.840 --> 00:17:34.310
- This temple will be taken down."
- 00:17:34.310 --> 00:17:38.448
- And his disciples say, "when is that gonna happen?
- 00:17:38.448 --> 00:17:44.187
- What's going to be the sign of your coming?
- 00:17:44.187 --> 00:17:47.023
- And when is the end of the age?"
- 00:17:47.023 --> 00:17:49.993
- Mike hayes: they don't know how close he is, but he knows that
- 00:17:49.993 --> 00:17:52.395
- He's four days from a crucifixion, so these are his
- 00:17:52.395 --> 00:17:57.200
- Last words.
- 00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:58.535
- The olivet discourse is his last sermon.
- 00:17:58.535 --> 00:18:01.437
- So he wants to pack everything into it to give them what they
- 00:18:01.437 --> 00:18:05.642
- Need to thrive and survive.
- 00:18:05.642 --> 00:18:08.545
- So, man, you've got to pick that apart carefully verse by verse,
- 00:18:08.545 --> 00:18:13.149
- And when i did that i was convinced that that sermon, that
- 00:18:13.149 --> 00:18:18.221
- Teaching was not to me 2000 years later.
- 00:18:18.221 --> 00:18:22.892
- That was in answer to their question when are these things
- 00:18:22.892 --> 00:18:27.463
- Like the destruction of the temple and its judgment and your
- 00:18:27.463 --> 00:18:31.167
- Return, when is that all gonna happen?
- 00:18:31.167 --> 00:18:33.203
- So he walks them through it.
- 00:18:33.203 --> 00:18:35.104
- Harold eberle: they were looking right at the temple
- 00:18:35.104 --> 00:18:36.573
- In jerusalem.
- 00:18:36.573 --> 00:18:38.208
- Now, again, the first question, when will these things happen?
- 00:18:38.208 --> 00:18:42.612
- Well, jesus is going to answer that question in the
- 00:18:42.612 --> 00:18:45.848
- Following verses.
- 00:18:45.848 --> 00:18:47.884
- So jesus was talking to the jewish religious leaders in the
- 00:18:47.884 --> 00:18:52.455
- Temple, he has said some pretty strong words to them, then he
- 00:18:52.455 --> 00:18:58.561
- Said all the blood that was shed of the righteous people
- 00:18:58.561 --> 00:19:02.799
- Throughout the our old testament, he is gonna require
- 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:06.869
- It at the hands of those jewish religious leaders, and he said
- 00:19:06.869 --> 00:19:10.740
- That this will happen in this generation.
- 00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:13.776
- Now, if we take that literally, this generation, well, normally
- 00:19:13.776 --> 00:19:19.115
- People who wrote the bible talked about a generation being
- 00:19:19.115 --> 00:19:22.051
- 40 years.
- 00:19:22.051 --> 00:19:23.920
- So even if we take a little leeway with that, we can think
- 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.957
- About 40 years.
- 00:19:27.957 --> 00:19:29.325
- When did jesus say this?
- 00:19:29.325 --> 00:19:30.827
- It was in the year 30.
- 00:19:30.827 --> 00:19:32.929
- So that was the year jesus was talking to his disciples in
- 00:19:32.929 --> 00:19:37.500
- Matthew chapter 24, and that's when they had this discussion.
- 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:42.505
- Jesus said jerusalem will be destroyed.
- 00:19:42.505 --> 00:19:46.743
- David holland: they're shocked, they're shocked to hear jesus
- 00:19:46.743 --> 00:19:50.046
- Say that this magnificent temple would be a pile of rubble at
- 00:19:50.046 --> 00:19:53.483
- Some point in the future.
- 00:19:53.483 --> 00:19:55.485
- And so jesus goes on to explain to them that, that day is coming
- 00:19:55.485 --> 00:20:01.024
- And what signs would lead up to that event.
- 00:20:01.024 --> 00:20:04.694
- Dudley hall: that was devastating to them, they're
- 00:20:04.694 --> 00:20:06.062
- Gonna lose everything, they're losing their temple, they're
- 00:20:06.062 --> 00:20:08.264
- Losing their city, they're losing their priesthood, they're
- 00:20:08.264 --> 00:20:10.833
- Losing their identity, they're losing everything.
- 00:20:10.833 --> 00:20:15.338
- And so they were shocked, and it was like when are these things,
- 00:20:15.338 --> 00:20:18.875
- When is this going to happen?
- 00:20:18.875 --> 00:20:21.411
- John noe: in ad 70, we have the jewish-roman war of 66 to 70 ad.
- 00:20:21.411 --> 00:20:28.618
- This is in fulfillment of jesus's most dramatic prophecy,
- 00:20:28.618 --> 00:20:32.722
- What's called the olivet discourse, because he gave it on
- 00:20:32.722 --> 00:20:35.258
- The amount of olives.
- 00:20:35.258 --> 00:20:37.260
- Harold eberle: well, now we need to think about history.
- 00:20:37.260 --> 00:20:40.730
- Did this happen?
- 00:20:40.730 --> 00:20:42.498
- Jesus said these words in 30 ad, we had 40 years, a generation,
- 00:20:42.498 --> 00:20:48.137
- That brings us to 70 ad.
- 00:20:48.137 --> 00:20:50.807
- Well, actually there is a dramatic event that happened.
- 00:20:50.807 --> 00:20:55.078
- Many christians have never heard about it before, but it is the
- 00:20:55.078 --> 00:20:58.981
- Event when the roman government sent soldiers to destroy
- 00:20:58.981 --> 00:21:04.020
- The city of jerusalem.
- 00:21:04.020 --> 00:21:06.289
- [music]
- 00:21:06.289 --> 00:21:11.194
- Harold eberle: twenty thousand roman soldiers surrounded the
- 00:21:11.194 --> 00:21:14.697
- Hilltops around jerusalem, they starved the people, didn't let
- 00:21:14.697 --> 00:21:21.871
- Anybody in or out, and then after people were starving, they
- 00:21:21.871 --> 00:21:28.411
- Descended upon jerusalem and murdered more than a million
- 00:21:28.411 --> 00:21:33.015
- Jews there.
- 00:21:33.015 --> 00:21:36.719
- Then they lit the temple on fire.
- 00:21:36.719 --> 00:21:39.589
- The fire got so hot it melted the gold in the dome, and that's
- 00:21:39.589 --> 00:21:45.895
- How the fulfillment of what jesus said exactly, see that
- 00:21:45.895 --> 00:21:50.099
- Temple, not one stone will be left upon another.
- 00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:53.302
- Just as jesus said it would happen within a generation, it
- 00:21:53.302 --> 00:21:56.706
- Happened exactly.
- 00:21:56.706 --> 00:21:59.409
- And to this day there's not one stone there of the temple.
- 00:21:59.409 --> 00:22:04.847
- Martin trench: and reading historical writings like the
- 00:22:04.847 --> 00:22:07.383
- Historian josephus, who was an eyewitness to the destruction of
- 00:22:07.383 --> 00:22:11.454
- Jerusalem, and comparing them line by line, seeing the amazing
- 00:22:11.454 --> 00:22:18.127
- Accuracy of jesus's prophecy, how it was fulfilled in every
- 00:22:18.127 --> 00:22:23.833
- Specific within a generation, that was like the turning point
- 00:22:23.833 --> 00:22:28.771
- In my life.
- 00:22:28.771 --> 00:22:30.139
- It strengthened my faith in the prophetic scriptures.
- 00:22:30.139 --> 00:22:33.509
- It didn't weaken them, it strengthened them.
- 00:22:33.509 --> 00:22:36.145
- Jesus predicted something within a generation, and it happened
- 00:22:36.145 --> 00:22:39.982
- Exactly the way he said it would.
- 00:22:39.982 --> 00:22:41.717
- Let's take john wesley.
- 00:22:41.717 --> 00:22:44.086
- John wesley fully believed the stuff that i'm sharing here with
- 00:22:44.086 --> 00:22:48.524
- You today, and that's because he had a classical education.
- 00:22:48.524 --> 00:22:52.462
- He knew all about ad 70.
- 00:22:52.462 --> 00:22:54.730
- He had studied the writings of the historian josephus.
- 00:22:54.730 --> 00:22:59.502
- Announcer: "josephus' history of the jewish war is the best
- 00:22:59.502 --> 00:23:02.238
- Commentary on this chapter.
- 00:23:02.238 --> 00:23:04.407
- It is a wonderful instance of god's providence, that he, an
- 00:23:04.407 --> 00:23:07.910
- Eyewitness, and one who lived and died a jew, should,
- 00:23:07.910 --> 00:23:12.381
- Especially in so extraordinary a manner, be preserved to transmit
- 00:23:12.381 --> 00:23:16.953
- To us a collection of important facts, which so exactly
- 00:23:16.953 --> 00:23:20.456
- Illustrate this glorious prophecy."
- 00:23:20.456 --> 00:23:24.927
- Martin trench: if we don't know about something, and then we
- 00:23:24.927 --> 00:23:28.431
- Read a prophecy about it, we're not gonna recognize what
- 00:23:28.431 --> 00:23:30.967
- It's about.
- 00:23:30.967 --> 00:23:32.335
- Mike hayes: and it was what jesus said in matthew 24 when
- 00:23:32.335 --> 00:23:36.172
- You talk about great tribulation, not in the future.
- 00:23:36.172 --> 00:23:40.476
- Jesus said these days there will be great tribulation such as the
- 00:23:40.476 --> 00:23:47.083
- World has never seen or will ever see again.
- 00:23:47.083 --> 00:23:54.223
- Martin trench: the city was surrounded by armies.
- 00:23:54.223 --> 00:23:57.260
- The armies had the eagle banner that they put in the ground.
- 00:23:57.260 --> 00:24:00.930
- Now, 40 years previously, or almost, jesus had predicted and
- 00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:06.702
- Prophesized in matthew 24, a time of great tribulation that
- 00:24:06.702 --> 00:24:13.242
- Would happen in judea and that when people saw it, they were
- 00:24:13.242 --> 00:24:18.147
- To flee.
- 00:24:18.147 --> 00:24:19.515
- He said jerusalem shall be surrounded by armies, for where
- 00:24:19.515 --> 00:24:23.286
- The corpse is, there the eagles shall gather.
- 00:24:23.286 --> 00:24:28.291
- The historians tell us that in the morning--people used to
- 00:24:28.291 --> 00:24:32.528
- Sleep on the rooftops in a warm evening--and in the morning
- 00:24:32.528 --> 00:24:36.532
- That they woke up and could see over the city walls that the
- 00:24:36.532 --> 00:24:40.403
- City was surrounded by armies with eagle banners, the
- 00:24:40.403 --> 00:24:43.839
- Christians in jerusalem knew this was the fulfillment of
- 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:48.411
- Jesus's prophecy.
- 00:24:48.411 --> 00:24:50.112
- And the historians tell us they did not go down from the
- 00:24:50.112 --> 00:24:53.716
- Rooftop, but they jumped from rooftop to rooftop till they got
- 00:24:53.716 --> 00:24:58.287
- To the city walls, climbed down the city walls and fled to the
- 00:24:58.287 --> 00:25:02.425
- Mountains exactly like jesus had instructed.
- 00:25:02.425 --> 00:25:06.529
- Because anyone who tried to go out the city gate was killed.
- 00:25:06.529 --> 00:25:10.700
- Announcer: "but when you see jerusalem surrounded by armies,
- 00:25:10.700 --> 00:25:13.669
- Then know that its desolation is near."
- 00:25:13.669 --> 00:25:18.007
- David currie: and he tells his disciples to flee when they see
- 00:25:18.007 --> 00:25:22.111
- The abomination of desolation, which they did, they
- 00:25:22.111 --> 00:25:25.548
- Fled jerusalem.
- 00:25:25.548 --> 00:25:27.683
- When they could, when they were given a chance, they
- 00:25:27.683 --> 00:25:29.619
- Fled jerusalem.
- 00:25:29.619 --> 00:25:30.953
- The window of opportunity for them to flee was so small that
- 00:25:30.953 --> 00:25:34.724
- If they had gone down to get their their belongings in their
- 00:25:34.724 --> 00:25:38.461
- House when they were on the rooftop, they would not have
- 00:25:38.461 --> 00:25:41.130
- Been able to get out.
- 00:25:41.130 --> 00:25:42.465
- That's how close the window was, but they did get out, and the
- 00:25:42.465 --> 00:25:46.302
- Church was saved.
- 00:25:46.302 --> 00:25:47.670
- There were no christians killed in jerusalem by titus when
- 00:25:47.670 --> 00:25:50.706
- Jerusalem was burned.
- 00:25:50.706 --> 00:25:52.074
- The reason is they had all escaped, just like jesus told
- 00:25:52.074 --> 00:25:56.245
- Them to do.
- 00:25:56.245 --> 00:25:58.381
- N.t. wright: the instructions to people to get out and run, run
- 00:25:58.381 --> 00:26:02.451
- To the hills, these are much more relevant for somebody who's
- 00:26:02.451 --> 00:26:06.422
- Surprised by a sudden military invasion than by somebody who's
- 00:26:06.422 --> 00:26:09.525
- Surprised by the last trump.
- 00:26:09.525 --> 00:26:11.027
- But in other words, the one being taken and one being left
- 00:26:11.027 --> 00:26:13.829
- Is nothing to do with a rapture, it's everything to do with roman
- 00:26:13.829 --> 00:26:17.800
- Soldiers coming in and grabbing people.
- 00:26:17.800 --> 00:26:20.403
- Martin trench: the jews within the city and the romans outside
- 00:26:20.403 --> 00:26:23.239
- Fought each other, false prophets and false messiahs
- 00:26:23.239 --> 00:26:27.309
- Arose within the city like jesus said they would.
- 00:26:27.309 --> 00:26:30.713
- There was famines and and earthquakes in the whole region
- 00:26:30.713 --> 00:26:35.284
- Surrounding it, like jesus said there would be.
- 00:26:35.284 --> 00:26:38.888
- There were even signs in the sky like jesus said there would be.
- 00:26:38.888 --> 00:26:43.659
- Josephus records that there was a star that looked like a dagger
- 00:26:43.659 --> 00:26:46.829
- Hanging over the city of jerusalem as if judgment was
- 00:26:46.829 --> 00:26:50.099
- About to fall.
- 00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:51.734
- Announcer: "a star resembling a sword stood over the city, and a
- 00:26:51.734 --> 00:26:55.337
- Comet that continued a whole year..."
- 00:26:55.337 --> 00:26:57.973
- From josephus, "the jewish war."
- 00:26:57.973 --> 00:27:02.545
- Martin trench: and then in ad 70, the starving jewish people
- 00:27:02.545 --> 00:27:06.115
- In the city could hold out no longer.
- 00:27:06.115 --> 00:27:08.484
- The romans went in, they killed over a million jews in one day,
- 00:27:08.484 --> 00:27:13.289
- They threw their bodies over the wall into gehenna, and then they
- 00:27:13.289 --> 00:27:19.428
- Pulled the temple down and totally destroyed the temple,
- 00:27:19.428 --> 00:27:22.965
- And not one stone was left upon another, like jesus said.
- 00:27:22.965 --> 00:27:30.706
- N.t. wright: when we've had, okay, there are going to be wars
- 00:27:31.841 --> 00:27:34.076
- And rumors of wars, there are going to be famines, there are
- 00:27:34.076 --> 00:27:36.078
- Going to be terrible times, there'll be days of distress,
- 00:27:36.078 --> 00:27:38.481
- There will be false messiahs, there will be people saying
- 00:27:38.481 --> 00:27:41.117
- Follow me, blah-blah-blah, don't do it, and then the son of man
- 00:27:41.117 --> 00:27:47.089
- Will be coming on the clouds.
- 00:27:47.089 --> 00:27:48.557
- Now, i grew up not knowing what that really meant but assuming
- 00:27:48.557 --> 00:27:53.329
- That it meant that jesus will be coming on the clouds from heaven
- 00:27:53.329 --> 00:27:58.634
- To earth.
- 00:27:58.634 --> 00:28:00.002
- I, then, at some point, probably in my early thirties read the
- 00:28:00.002 --> 00:28:05.207
- Book of daniel.
- 00:28:05.207 --> 00:28:06.709
- I'd read daniel many times, i'd never really seen it.
- 00:28:06.709 --> 00:28:09.612
- In daniel chapter 7, what's the direction of travel of the son
- 00:28:09.612 --> 00:28:14.283
- Of man?
- 00:28:14.283 --> 00:28:15.618
- The son of man is coming on the clouds to be seated beside the
- 00:28:15.618 --> 00:28:19.622
- Ancient of days.
- 00:28:19.622 --> 00:28:21.357
- In other words, he's coming up, not down.
- 00:28:21.357 --> 00:28:23.759
- So i read daniel 7 and its reinterpretation in matthew 24,
- 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:29.799
- In the scene before caiaphas, in mark 14, when jesus says to
- 00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:35.638
- Caiaphas, you will see the son of man coming on the clouds.
- 00:28:35.638 --> 00:28:38.073
- He doesn't mean caiaphas will look out of the window and see
- 00:28:38.073 --> 00:28:40.242
- Him jesus returning.
- 00:28:40.242 --> 00:28:41.844
- He means you're going to see me vindicated.
- 00:28:41.844 --> 00:28:44.413
- You will see the events which demonstrate quite clearly that i
- 00:28:44.413 --> 00:28:48.484
- Have been enthroned at the right hand of the father.
- 00:28:48.484 --> 00:28:51.654
- Hence, the main theme of mark 13, matthew 24, and luke 19 is
- 00:28:51.654 --> 00:28:58.394
- The destruction of jerusalem as the sign that jesus, who has
- 00:28:58.394 --> 00:29:03.032
- Announced its judgment, god's judgment on it, is vindicated by
- 00:29:03.032 --> 00:29:08.337
- God, is enthroned at the right hand of the ancient of days.
- 00:29:08.337 --> 00:29:11.974
- Dudley hall: i don't see the tribulation is something that's
- 00:29:11.974 --> 00:29:14.643
- In our future.
- 00:29:14.643 --> 00:29:16.579
- It was in their future just a few years, but it's not in
- 00:29:16.579 --> 00:29:20.950
- Our future.
- 00:29:20.950 --> 00:29:22.284
- It was talking about something that happened then.
- 00:29:22.284 --> 00:29:24.053
- Every once in a while you run into a bible student who'll say,
- 00:29:24.053 --> 00:29:27.923
- Well, yeah, but prophecy has a double barrel fulfillment, so
- 00:29:27.923 --> 00:29:32.461
- Maybe it happened then, it'll happen again in the future.
- 00:29:32.461 --> 00:29:36.565
- Maybe there'll be something like that happen in the future, but
- 00:29:36.565 --> 00:29:38.834
- Not that, not the one he was describing, not where when you
- 00:29:38.834 --> 00:29:42.571
- See this happening, get off the roof, go to pella, get out of
- 00:29:42.571 --> 00:29:46.442
- Here, that one won't happen again.
- 00:29:46.442 --> 00:29:49.378
- Jesus said in this world you will have tribulation, but he's
- 00:29:49.378 --> 00:29:53.382
- Not describing the great tribulation that's referred to
- 00:29:53.382 --> 00:29:57.019
- By the dispensations and many others.
- 00:29:57.019 --> 00:29:59.121
- So matthew 24 is in our past, it was in their future.
- 00:29:59.121 --> 00:30:05.661
- Announcer: from the early theologian origen on jerusalem's
- 00:30:05.661 --> 00:30:08.631
- Destruction, "when we see jerusalem compassed by armies,
- 00:30:08.631 --> 00:30:12.635
- Then we know her desolation is near...
- 00:30:12.635 --> 00:30:15.004
- And indeed it came to pass under titus the roman general."
- 00:30:15.004 --> 00:30:21.477
- Dudley hall: for the israelite, jerusalem was the holy city.
- 00:30:22.611 --> 00:30:27.549
- It was the epitome of the place where god dwelt with men, and
- 00:30:27.549 --> 00:30:33.255
- Jerusalem was important because the temple was there, and the
- 00:30:33.255 --> 00:30:36.492
- Temple was important because the holy of holies was there, and
- 00:30:36.492 --> 00:30:39.929
- That's where god met with man, so the holiest spot on the earth
- 00:30:39.929 --> 00:30:45.267
- Is where god met with man in the holy of holies, and then the
- 00:30:45.267 --> 00:30:49.638
- Temple is around that so the whole temple is holy.
- 00:30:49.638 --> 00:30:53.542
- It gave them their identity like the land had given them some
- 00:30:53.542 --> 00:30:58.414
- Sense of being a nation.
- 00:30:58.414 --> 00:31:00.516
- The temple was the symbol that god loved and would
- 00:31:00.516 --> 00:31:05.621
- Protect israel.
- 00:31:05.621 --> 00:31:07.022
- Unbelieving judaism was, unbelieving israel, the whole
- 00:31:07.022 --> 00:31:11.293
- System was judged, and the good part about that is those who say
- 00:31:11.293 --> 00:31:16.532
- That the jews need to be rejected now, judged now because
- 00:31:16.532 --> 00:31:20.903
- They killed jesus, didn't believe jesus, no, they've had
- 00:31:20.903 --> 00:31:23.439
- Their judgment.
- 00:31:23.439 --> 00:31:24.773
- That was the judgment there.
- 00:31:24.773 --> 00:31:27.977
- Announcer: "so all hope of escaping was now cut off from
- 00:31:27.977 --> 00:31:30.579
- The jews.
- 00:31:30.579 --> 00:31:32.114
- Then did the famine widen its progress, and devour the people
- 00:31:32.114 --> 00:31:35.584
- By whole houses and families...
- 00:31:35.584 --> 00:31:39.054
- Neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries.
- 00:31:39.054 --> 00:31:43.692
- Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire
- 00:31:43.692 --> 00:31:46.695
- City and temple...
- 00:31:46.695 --> 00:31:49.832
- There was nothing left to make those that came thither believe
- 00:31:49.832 --> 00:31:52.968
- It had ever been inhabited," from josephus, "the jewish war."
- 00:31:52.968 --> 00:32:00.642
- Martin trench: so in ad 70, the sacrificial system came to an
- 00:32:00.642 --> 00:32:05.214
- End, the temple came to an end, the priesthood came to an end,
- 00:32:05.214 --> 00:32:10.619
- The genealogies of who could be a priest were all destroyed by
- 00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:14.857
- The romans.
- 00:32:14.857 --> 00:32:16.325
- In other words, there was no remnant of the old covenant left
- 00:32:16.325 --> 00:32:20.929
- At all, and all we had now was the new covenant.
- 00:32:20.929 --> 00:32:27.803
- David holland: the temple, obviously solomon's original
- 00:32:27.803 --> 00:32:30.372
- Temple and the second temple, herod's temple, as it's
- 00:32:30.372 --> 00:32:35.344
- Sometimes called, was a recreation or a stone
- 00:32:35.344 --> 00:32:38.580
- Replication of the tabernacle of moses, and the tabernacle of
- 00:32:38.580 --> 00:32:43.018
- Moses was where the the covenantal rites and sacraments,
- 00:32:43.018 --> 00:32:47.656
- The rites of the old covenant system were practiced.
- 00:32:47.656 --> 00:32:51.326
- And so it was the symbolic heart, sacrifice, the yom kippur
- 00:32:51.326 --> 00:32:56.098
- Sacrifices, the passover sacrifices were the heart of the
- 00:32:56.098 --> 00:33:00.302
- Old covenant system, and what god was signifying by allowing
- 00:33:00.302 --> 00:33:05.474
- The destruction of that temple is he was signifying that that
- 00:33:05.474 --> 00:33:09.344
- Old system had ended, it was over, and a new covenant
- 00:33:09.344 --> 00:33:13.348
- Had come.
- 00:33:13.348 --> 00:33:14.683
- It was a definitive sign and validation that the old
- 00:33:14.683 --> 00:33:19.655
- Sacrifices that were just pointing to jesus were no longer
- 00:33:19.655 --> 00:33:22.958
- Necessary, because the once-and-for-all sacrifice,
- 00:33:22.958 --> 00:33:26.395
- Hebrews tells us, had come in the form of jesus, the lamb
- 00:33:26.395 --> 00:33:30.699
- Of god.
- 00:33:30.699 --> 00:33:32.901
- Harold eberle: hebrews chapter 8 says god has made the old
- 00:33:32.901 --> 00:33:37.473
- Obsolete, that the old jewish religiousism was made obsolete
- 00:33:37.473 --> 00:33:42.211
- Removed, but there's a new covenant now, and that new
- 00:33:42.211 --> 00:33:47.349
- Covenant is what jesus established with his death on
- 00:33:47.349 --> 00:33:50.352
- The cross.
- 00:33:50.352 --> 00:33:51.687
- So it's a new transition.
- 00:33:51.687 --> 00:33:53.789
- Now we have a new high priest, and now we have a new temple.
- 00:33:53.789 --> 00:33:57.826
- The temple now is not made of stones, but it's made of living
- 00:33:57.826 --> 00:34:02.998
- Human beings, and jesus says, "i will build my temple,"
- 00:34:02.998 --> 00:34:07.870
- And the temple is the dwelling place for god.
- 00:34:07.870 --> 00:34:11.039
- He wants to come and dwell among his people.
- 00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.909
- And so the physical temple was destroyed, but it was to allow
- 00:34:13.909 --> 00:34:18.614
- Us to have a new, greater temple what god always had intended to
- 00:34:18.614 --> 00:34:23.719
- Dwell among people.
- 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:25.888
- So that has a huge spiritual significance that we just see in
- 00:34:25.888 --> 00:34:30.359
- The natural when the temple was destroyed.
- 00:34:30.359 --> 00:34:36.004
- The natural when the temple was destroyed.
- 00:34:36.004 --> 00:34:36.332
- [music]
- 00:34:36.566 --> 00:34:39.602
- Female: if matthew 24 speaks of a new age in the arrival of
- 00:34:39.602 --> 00:34:43.239
- God's kingdom, clothed in apocalyptic imagery and already
- 00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:47.343
- Fulfilled, then what are we to make of the book of revelation?
- 00:34:47.343 --> 00:34:53.883
- Martin trench: the book of revelation is a prophecy of
- 00:34:53.883 --> 00:34:57.954
- Jesus christ told in the language of symbols.
- 00:34:57.954 --> 00:35:02.892
- Well, where else do we get a prophecy from jesus christ?
- 00:35:02.892 --> 00:35:06.262
- The olivet discourse, matthew 24 and 25.
- 00:35:06.262 --> 00:35:11.100
- Jesus gives us a prophecy, there's some apocalyptic
- 00:35:11.100 --> 00:35:14.737
- Language in it, but most of it is said in
- 00:35:14.737 --> 00:35:17.840
- Straightforward speech.
- 00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:20.109
- The temple will be destroyed, jerusalem will be destroyed, all
- 00:35:20.109 --> 00:35:23.780
- Evidence of the old covenant will be wiped out, then that
- 00:35:23.780 --> 00:35:27.550
- Will be followed by a long period of time where the master
- 00:35:27.550 --> 00:35:31.154
- Is delayed in his return and that we've to occupy until he
- 00:35:31.154 --> 00:35:35.391
- Comes, and then there'll be a third period of time at the end
- 00:35:35.391 --> 00:35:38.995
- When jesus will return again and sum everything up.
- 00:35:38.995 --> 00:35:42.732
- If that is the prophecy of jesus in matthew 24 and 25, then the
- 00:35:42.732 --> 00:35:48.738
- Book of revelation is a repeat of it.
- 00:35:48.738 --> 00:35:51.507
- It is the prophecy of jesus, but this time given in the language
- 00:35:51.507 --> 00:35:56.946
- Of symbols.
- 00:35:56.946 --> 00:35:58.514
- Mike hayes: and we believe that the book of revelation was a
- 00:35:58.514 --> 00:36:02.285
- Warning for the church.
- 00:36:02.285 --> 00:36:05.255
- You know, matthew, mark, and luke all wrote their version of
- 00:36:05.255 --> 00:36:09.425
- The olivet discourse.
- 00:36:09.425 --> 00:36:11.027
- John in his book did not, but then he wrote the book
- 00:36:11.027 --> 00:36:14.364
- Of revelation.
- 00:36:14.364 --> 00:36:15.832
- Most scholars believe that the book of revelation is john's
- 00:36:15.832 --> 00:36:19.002
- Take by the spirit and his visions and all that on the
- 00:36:19.002 --> 00:36:23.373
- Olivet discourse.
- 00:36:23.373 --> 00:36:24.841
- It is the impending doom brought about by the antichrist, which
- 00:36:24.841 --> 00:36:29.979
- Was nero, and the destruction of jerusalem and the jewish system
- 00:36:29.979 --> 00:36:35.785
- As they knew it and then the church escapes and is sent forth
- 00:36:35.785 --> 00:36:41.991
- Into the world.
- 00:36:41.991 --> 00:36:43.359
- Martin trench: and sure enough, we see the same thing in the
- 00:36:43.359 --> 00:36:45.728
- Book of revelation, we see that the majority of it, just like
- 00:36:45.728 --> 00:36:48.965
- The majority of the olivet discourse, is about the temple
- 00:36:48.965 --> 00:36:52.669
- Being destroyed and the city being destroyed and armies
- 00:36:52.669 --> 00:36:57.206
- Outside of the temple and so on.
- 00:36:57.206 --> 00:36:59.509
- David currie: it uses apocalyptic language.
- 00:36:59.509 --> 00:37:01.844
- So it talks about an army that looks like a locust, and it
- 00:37:01.844 --> 00:37:04.647
- Talks about, you know, pits and dragons and all these kinds of
- 00:37:04.647 --> 00:37:09.252
- Images very common to the old testament.
- 00:37:09.252 --> 00:37:14.290
- And one of the things i did in the rapture book was show how
- 00:37:14.290 --> 00:37:17.226
- That imagery fits what happened in 70 ad.
- 00:37:17.226 --> 00:37:22.999
- Martin trench: when people say, yes, i know the book of
- 00:37:22.999 --> 00:37:26.169
- Revelation says it would happen soon, but to god that might mean
- 00:37:26.169 --> 00:37:30.106
- A long time.
- 00:37:30.106 --> 00:37:31.874
- Well, when god wants something to mean a long time, he's able
- 00:37:31.874 --> 00:37:36.879
- To clearly tell us that.
- 00:37:36.879 --> 00:37:38.715
- So when we look at the prophecies in the book of
- 00:37:38.715 --> 00:37:40.883
- Daniel, god tells us that those prophecies are gonna take a long
- 00:37:40.883 --> 00:37:45.988
- Time, hundreds of years even, you know?
- 00:37:45.988 --> 00:37:50.460
- Seventy times seven years, and so in the book of daniel, he has
- 00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:59.502
- Apocalyptic visions, you know, symbolic visions, he explains
- 00:37:59.502 --> 00:38:03.573
- What they mean, and god says it will be a long, long time for
- 00:38:03.573 --> 00:38:07.977
- Them to be fulfilled.
- 00:38:07.977 --> 00:38:09.779
- So if the book of revelation was gonna be the same, surely god
- 00:38:09.779 --> 00:38:13.683
- Would have said the same thing again, you know, this is gonna
- 00:38:13.683 --> 00:38:16.152
- Be hundreds, maybe even thousands of years before
- 00:38:16.152 --> 00:38:19.222
- It's fulfilled.
- 00:38:19.222 --> 00:38:20.590
- That's what he told daniel, but he told john it would be soon.
- 00:38:20.590 --> 00:38:24.694
- There's a contrast.
- 00:38:24.694 --> 00:38:28.798
- David currie: i think the problem when people go to
- 00:38:28.798 --> 00:38:31.234
- Revelation is they still think most of it is future.
- 00:38:31.234 --> 00:38:34.737
- Now, there is an element of revelation that's future, but
- 00:38:34.737 --> 00:38:37.907
- The first 19 chapters of revelation are clearly past.
- 00:38:37.907 --> 00:38:44.414
- There's seven churches that it starts out with.
- 00:38:44.414 --> 00:38:47.150
- Those are not historical eons or ages of the church.
- 00:38:47.150 --> 00:38:50.653
- Those are actual 7 churches that existed in 70 ad, the 60s and
- 00:38:50.653 --> 00:38:55.958
- The 70s.
- 00:38:55.958 --> 00:38:57.293
- Those churches are made promises that most of which have
- 00:38:57.293 --> 00:39:00.596
- Come true.
- 00:39:00.596 --> 00:39:02.165
- Christ promised to come in judgment on ephesus and sardis
- 00:39:02.165 --> 00:39:08.171
- And pergamum, those are three of the seven churches, and if you
- 00:39:08.171 --> 00:39:12.642
- Look at history, he came in judgment on those
- 00:39:12.642 --> 00:39:16.679
- Three churches.
- 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:18.548
- You won't find much of a christian community in sardis
- 00:39:18.548 --> 00:39:21.851
- Anymore or pergamum.
- 00:39:21.851 --> 00:39:23.820
- Those churches have been judged, so it starts with those
- 00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:27.056
- Seven churches.
- 00:39:27.056 --> 00:39:28.424
- That's historic, that happened.
- 00:39:28.424 --> 00:39:31.394
- Female: but doesn't revelation, then, talk about an apocalypse?
- 00:39:31.394 --> 00:39:34.597
- Isn't that a terrible end times event?
- 00:39:34.597 --> 00:39:39.135
- Martin trench: we think the word apocalypse means the end of the
- 00:39:39.135 --> 00:39:42.572
- World, an apocalyptic movie is about the end of the world or
- 00:39:42.572 --> 00:39:46.409
- Something, but that's not what the word apocalypse means.
- 00:39:46.409 --> 00:39:50.413
- An apocalypse is a prophecy given in the language
- 00:39:50.413 --> 00:39:56.552
- Of symbols.
- 00:39:56.552 --> 00:39:58.688
- And this is really interesting, in matthew chapter 24 and 25, we
- 00:39:58.688 --> 00:40:04.160
- See jesus's prophecy.
- 00:40:04.160 --> 00:40:06.729
- In the book of revelation, we see jesus's prophecy again but
- 00:40:06.729 --> 00:40:10.833
- Now in the language of symbols, the apocalypse of jesus christ,
- 00:40:10.833 --> 00:40:15.938
- The prophecy of jesus christ in the language of symbols.
- 00:40:15.938 --> 00:40:20.476
- And so we need to know what these symbols mean.
- 00:40:20.476 --> 00:40:23.846
- In the old testament, beasts with horns and so on symbolize
- 00:40:23.846 --> 00:40:30.353
- Kings and kingdoms.
- 00:40:30.353 --> 00:40:33.222
- Announcer: "he gave me this explanation, the fourth beast is
- 00:40:33.222 --> 00:40:36.259
- The fourth kingdom that will appear on earth.
- 00:40:36.259 --> 00:40:39.295
- It will be different from all other kingdoms and will devour
- 00:40:39.295 --> 00:40:42.698
- The whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.
- 00:40:42.698 --> 00:40:46.869
- The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom.
- 00:40:46.869 --> 00:40:51.107
- After them another king will arise, different from the
- 00:40:51.107 --> 00:40:54.277
- Earlier ones; he will subdue three kings."
- 00:40:54.277 --> 00:40:59.582
- Martin trench: a beast with ten horns on its head, we see in the
- 00:40:59.582 --> 00:41:04.020
- Book of revelation.
- 00:41:04.020 --> 00:41:06.222
- Announcer: "i saw a beast with ten horns and seven heads rising
- 00:41:06.222 --> 00:41:10.226
- Out of the blackness of the sea."
- 00:41:10.226 --> 00:41:14.230
- Martin trench: and, you know, the roman empire had ten
- 00:41:14.230 --> 00:41:19.435
- Major caesars.
- 00:41:19.435 --> 00:41:22.405
- It also divided, the caesars divided the roman empire into
- 00:41:22.405 --> 00:41:26.342
- Ten administrative districts, each one with a ruler on top
- 00:41:26.342 --> 00:41:30.780
- Of it.
- 00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:32.114
- And so now you have ten horns.
- 00:41:32.114 --> 00:41:35.251
- Whether those horns are the ten caesars, or whether they're the
- 00:41:35.251 --> 00:41:39.155
- Ten leaders of the ten administrative districts, it
- 00:41:39.155 --> 00:41:42.024
- Doesn't matter, they're both.
- 00:41:42.024 --> 00:41:44.026
- Horns symbolized rulers over an area.
- 00:41:44.026 --> 00:41:49.765
- The book of revelation is speaking about the political
- 00:41:49.765 --> 00:41:53.803
- Situation at the time and the persecution that the church was
- 00:41:53.803 --> 00:41:58.174
- Facing at that time.
- 00:41:58.174 --> 00:42:02.445
- David currie: the 19 first chapters, particularly all those
- 00:42:03.546 --> 00:42:06.282
- Visions, it goes over and over and over again the same events,
- 00:42:06.282 --> 00:42:11.854
- The events of 70 ad.
- 00:42:11.854 --> 00:42:13.823
- Then when you get to chapter 20, verse 1, john, as the author of
- 00:42:13.823 --> 00:42:18.894
- Revelation, does something he hasn't really done the entire
- 00:42:18.894 --> 00:42:22.164
- 19 chapters up to that point.
- 00:42:22.164 --> 00:42:25.034
- He puts a time marker in it, and he starts
- 00:42:25.034 --> 00:42:27.870
- Talking chronologically.
- 00:42:27.870 --> 00:42:29.839
- He changes focus, and he says after all this, then after this,
- 00:42:29.839 --> 00:42:36.812
- There will be 1000 years.
- 00:42:36.812 --> 00:42:39.548
- Satan will be bound and thrown into a bottomless pit and a,
- 00:42:39.548 --> 00:42:45.588
- You know, and a cover will be put on that pit.
- 00:42:45.588 --> 00:42:47.790
- Now, this is obviously very, very much symbolic language,
- 00:42:47.790 --> 00:42:51.727
- Because first of all, what is a bottomless pit?
- 00:42:51.727 --> 00:42:55.431
- A bottomless pit isn't a pit, it's a tube, okay?
- 00:42:55.431 --> 00:42:59.135
- So he's obviously speaking in symbolic language.
- 00:42:59.135 --> 00:43:01.704
- Plus, how do you take a pure spirit, which is what satan is,
- 00:43:01.704 --> 00:43:05.941
- And bind him and throw him into any kind of a pit or tube that's
- 00:43:05.941 --> 00:43:10.546
- Gonna keep him there?
- 00:43:10.546 --> 00:43:11.914
- And how would a cover keep him there if there's no bottom?
- 00:43:11.914 --> 00:43:14.917
- So he's speaking a very symbolic language here, but it is clear
- 00:43:14.917 --> 00:43:19.388
- That he's saying there's gonna be a very long time during which
- 00:43:19.388 --> 00:43:23.592
- Satan will be hindered, he won't be as active as he has been up
- 00:43:23.592 --> 00:43:28.931
- Till this point.
- 00:43:28.931 --> 00:43:30.299
- Martin trench: and so 1000 years means all the years, all the
- 00:43:30.299 --> 00:43:33.302
- Years between the first coming of christ, when the strong man
- 00:43:33.302 --> 00:43:37.273
- Was bound and the return of christ when evil will finally
- 00:43:37.273 --> 00:43:42.778
- Be eradicated.
- 00:43:42.778 --> 00:43:44.714
- So that thousand years is a symbolic number, that's that
- 00:43:44.714 --> 00:43:47.583
- Long period of time just like it is in the olivet discourse, and
- 00:43:47.583 --> 00:43:52.988
- Then we get into revelation 21 and we see a new jerusalem and a
- 00:43:52.988 --> 00:43:58.494
- New heaven and a new earth.
- 00:43:58.494 --> 00:43:59.862
- This is obviously christ returning for the consummation
- 00:43:59.862 --> 00:44:03.299
- Of all things.
- 00:44:03.299 --> 00:44:07.169
- N.t. wright: those who are redeemed by the blood of the
- 00:44:07.169 --> 00:44:09.405
- Lamb, they are singing the great song, by your blood you ransomed
- 00:44:09.405 --> 00:44:14.243
- Humans for god, not in order to make them inhabit a timeless
- 00:44:14.243 --> 00:44:18.080
- Eternity, but so that they could be the royal priesthood.
- 00:44:18.080 --> 00:44:21.951
- And they will reign on the earth, not in heaven, on the
- 00:44:21.951 --> 00:44:25.755
- Earth, because heaven is going to come down to earth.
- 00:44:25.755 --> 00:44:28.524
- The two will be joined, revelation 21, the new heavens
- 00:44:28.524 --> 00:44:31.193
- And new earth, and the human beings, the redeemed human
- 00:44:31.193 --> 00:44:34.296
- Beings will be sharing god's rule over the earth.
- 00:44:34.296 --> 00:44:39.301
- Mike hayes: the common ground is jesus is in the heavens, he's
- 00:44:39.301 --> 00:44:43.572
- Coming back for his bride, when does that happen?
- 00:44:43.572 --> 00:44:48.577
- And are we staying here?
- 00:44:48.577 --> 00:44:50.746
- Are we going back to heaven?
- 00:44:50.746 --> 00:44:52.782
- Now, heaven and paradise is a whole 'nother subject, but the
- 00:44:52.782 --> 00:44:57.219
- Heavens and the earth ultimately in revelation in the end will be
- 00:44:57.219 --> 00:45:00.422
- Joined, rejoined.
- 00:45:00.422 --> 00:45:02.258
- I saw a new heaven and a new earth.
- 00:45:02.258 --> 00:45:05.294
- The greek word is neos, which means the latest in a form or
- 00:45:05.294 --> 00:45:09.031
- Succession of many, so it's not another planet, it's this one
- 00:45:09.031 --> 00:45:13.969
- Totally restored, totally renewed.
- 00:45:13.969 --> 00:45:16.806
- Resurrection is not just gonna impact the body of jesus and
- 00:45:16.806 --> 00:45:20.242
- Then ours, it's gonna impact all of creation, the earth, the
- 00:45:20.242 --> 00:45:25.514
- Animals, the sea, the plant life, the sky, the stars,
- 00:45:25.514 --> 00:45:31.921
- Everything will be totally renewed, and then jesus and we
- 00:45:31.921 --> 00:45:37.560
- Live with him and rule and reign forever.
- 00:45:37.560 --> 00:45:40.963
- That's all common ground.
- 00:45:40.963 --> 00:45:44.667
- Martin trench: i think there's two reasons that most christians
- 00:45:44.667 --> 00:45:48.137
- Have not heard more about this understanding of scripture.
- 00:45:48.137 --> 00:45:52.842
- I think one is that over the last couple hundred years, our
- 00:45:52.842 --> 00:45:57.146
- Education system has really changed a lot.
- 00:45:57.146 --> 00:46:01.417
- Now, it's changed in a good way in the sense that everybody can
- 00:46:01.417 --> 00:46:05.821
- Get an education now, but it used to only be wealthy people
- 00:46:05.821 --> 00:46:08.958
- Who got an education in the past.
- 00:46:08.958 --> 00:46:11.560
- But it's changed in a bad way in the sense that our education has
- 00:46:11.560 --> 00:46:15.364
- Been really watered down a lot, whereas it was really specific
- 00:46:15.364 --> 00:46:19.101
- In the past.
- 00:46:19.101 --> 00:46:20.603
- So up until maybe 150 years or so ago, anybody going through
- 00:46:20.603 --> 00:46:26.642
- School, college, a private tutor, or however they were
- 00:46:26.642 --> 00:46:30.279
- Educated, they were taught classical history.
- 00:46:30.279 --> 00:46:34.350
- They were taught about the ancient egyptians, they were
- 00:46:34.350 --> 00:46:37.419
- Taught about alexander the great, they were taught about
- 00:46:37.419 --> 00:46:40.422
- The roman empire and who the caesars were.
- 00:46:40.422 --> 00:46:44.593
- They were taught about the fall of jerusalem, which was part of
- 00:46:44.593 --> 00:46:48.197
- The roman empire at the time.
- 00:46:48.197 --> 00:46:50.366
- And so people were taught history.
- 00:46:50.366 --> 00:46:52.968
- So then when they went to the bible and they picked up a bible
- 00:46:52.968 --> 00:46:55.537
- And read it, let's say they're reading daniel, they would say
- 00:46:55.537 --> 00:46:58.908
- Right away, oh, that's the babylonian empire, that's the
- 00:46:58.908 --> 00:47:03.112
- Medo-persian empire.
- 00:47:03.112 --> 00:47:04.513
- That's the--oh, that was alexander the great he's talking
- 00:47:04.513 --> 00:47:06.782
- About, because they knew history, so they recognized it.
- 00:47:06.782 --> 00:47:10.619
- When people read jesus's prophecy in matthew 24 and 25,
- 00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:14.723
- They would automatically say, oh, that's what happened in ad
- 00:47:14.723 --> 00:47:17.259
- 70, because they already knew about ad 70.
- 00:47:17.259 --> 00:47:21.430
- So, unfortunately, we're doing our education in reverse.
- 00:47:21.430 --> 00:47:25.000
- We're discovering jesus's prophecy first, and then we're
- 00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:28.404
- Having to go and find out what it's about and do some of the
- 00:47:28.404 --> 00:47:31.874
- Historical research.
- 00:47:31.874 --> 00:47:33.342
- David holland: if you have found yourself surprised to learn that
- 00:47:33.342 --> 00:47:36.946
- There's another way to think about the end times, just know
- 00:47:36.946 --> 00:47:40.382
- These issues are not so cut and dried.
- 00:47:40.382 --> 00:47:45.120
- We all need to have a little humility in the way we hold
- 00:47:45.120 --> 00:47:48.924
- These views, but the holy spirit wants to lead you into all
- 00:47:48.924 --> 00:47:52.361
- Truth, but just know that you've had a set of lenses on your
- 00:47:52.361 --> 00:47:56.031
- Entire life or your entire life in god.
- 00:47:56.031 --> 00:47:58.667
- If dispensationalism is all you've heard, you've been
- 00:47:58.667 --> 00:48:01.470
- Reading your bible with those lenses on, so just take them off
- 00:48:01.470 --> 00:48:06.508
- Consciously and start to read your bible with fresh eyes and
- 00:48:06.508 --> 00:48:10.379
- Ask the holy spirit to lead you into all truth.
- 00:48:10.379 --> 00:48:14.583
- Harold eberle: after i made the shift, i realized i was
- 00:48:14.583 --> 00:48:17.386
- Interpreting the world through the worldview i had embraced,
- 00:48:17.386 --> 00:48:21.023
- Not even realizing it.
- 00:48:21.023 --> 00:48:22.691
- And as soon as i did embrace what the bible had convinced me
- 00:48:22.691 --> 00:48:26.395
- Of, the world looked differently, things like the
- 00:48:26.395 --> 00:48:30.733
- Rapid expansion of christianity that i had no concept of before.
- 00:48:30.733 --> 00:48:34.903
- There's more than a million people added to christianity
- 00:48:34.903 --> 00:48:38.173
- Every week.
- 00:48:38.173 --> 00:48:39.541
- I never could have conceived of that when i had my
- 00:48:39.541 --> 00:48:42.611
- Pessimistic view.
- 00:48:42.611 --> 00:48:45.047
- Mike hayes: first chronicles chapter 12 says the men of
- 00:48:45.047 --> 00:48:49.585
- Isaachar understood their times and therefore knew what israel
- 00:48:49.585 --> 00:48:56.091
- Ought to do.
- 00:48:56.091 --> 00:48:57.559
- I think that's a challenge for all of us now.
- 00:48:57.559 --> 00:49:00.396
- I don't think some of us are understanding the times that
- 00:49:00.396 --> 00:49:03.432
- We're in.
- 00:49:03.432 --> 00:49:04.800
- We're overly-stimulated by constant bad news, and we're not
- 00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.837
- Hearing the good news.
- 00:49:08.837 --> 00:49:10.439
- The body of christ, the kingdom of god is growing.
- 00:49:10.439 --> 00:49:14.343
- Dudley hall: be honest about where you learn whatever it is
- 00:49:14.343 --> 00:49:16.478
- You learn.
- 00:49:16.478 --> 00:49:17.813
- If you didn't learn that as god taught you in the scripture, you
- 00:49:17.813 --> 00:49:20.582
- Heard some preacher say it, saw it on television, read
- 00:49:20.582 --> 00:49:22.985
- Somebody's book, some uncle told you about it, be honest about
- 00:49:22.985 --> 00:49:26.755
- That and go back and say that really wasn't what i learned
- 00:49:26.755 --> 00:49:29.691
- From god, that's something i picked up, and go back and say,
- 00:49:29.691 --> 00:49:33.128
- Jesus, you have the last word in my life.
- 00:49:33.128 --> 00:49:37.900
- I can have all these opinions, but you have the last word in
- 00:49:37.900 --> 00:49:40.702
- My life.
- 00:49:40.702 --> 00:49:42.071
- I'm asking you, by your holy spirit, to show me what is the
- 00:49:42.071 --> 00:49:46.542
- Last word.
- 00:49:46.542 --> 00:49:47.910
- What are you talking about?
- 00:49:47.910 --> 00:49:49.845
- David currie: what have you built your foundation on?
- 00:49:49.845 --> 00:49:53.415
- Whether you're dispensationalist, whether
- 00:49:53.415 --> 00:49:55.551
- You're catholic, whether you're protestant, make sure that your
- 00:49:55.551 --> 00:50:00.022
- Foundation is jesus christ.
- 00:50:00.022 --> 00:50:06.028
- Matt crouch: i feel like tbn was lived out over the last 54 years
- 00:50:06.028 --> 00:50:13.502
- Almost a year at a time, and i feel more generational now, bob.
- 00:50:13.502 --> 00:50:19.508
- I feel like we should try to take this production that we're
- 00:50:19.508 --> 00:50:25.714
- Bringing to the people and just with open hands kind of do this.
- 00:50:25.714 --> 00:50:32.054
- All we're trying to do is tell you there are different ways to
- 00:50:32.054 --> 00:50:35.357
- Look at these, you know, controversial things of the way
- 00:50:35.357 --> 00:50:39.728
- Revelation is interpreted, the way matthew 24 is interpreted,
- 00:50:39.728 --> 00:50:43.398
- The way some of daniel's interpreted, and whether those
- 00:50:43.398 --> 00:50:47.302
- Are written for the 2025s and beyond, or whether they were
- 00:50:47.302 --> 00:50:52.040
- Written for an audience at the time, let's say 70 ad and and
- 00:50:52.040 --> 00:50:56.411
- Other times.
- 00:50:56.411 --> 00:50:57.813
- Look, everyone, all we're caring about is we love jesus, and
- 00:50:57.813 --> 00:51:03.218
- We're trying to get people to take a longer view.
- 00:51:03.218 --> 00:51:06.522
- Let's build for generation after generation, let's think about
- 00:51:06.522 --> 00:51:13.162
- Building ministries, let's think about building businesses, let's
- 00:51:13.162 --> 00:51:17.933
- Think about doing things and doing it for generation
- 00:51:17.933 --> 00:51:23.572
- After generation.
- 00:51:23.572 --> 00:51:25.274
- Our beautiful production is simply saying, hey, what if
- 00:51:25.274 --> 00:51:30.312
- There is a victorious eschatology ahead?
- 00:51:30.312 --> 00:51:33.982
- What if there's a victory in our future?
- 00:51:33.982 --> 00:51:45.227
- Announcer: next time on "god with us."
- 00:51:46.061 --> 00:51:48.764
- Martin trench: everybody thinks the book of revelation is about
- 00:51:48.764 --> 00:51:51.166
- The antichrist, and if you read the book of revelation, you
- 00:51:51.166 --> 00:51:54.570
- Won't find the word antichrist there at all.
- 00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:57.873
- N.t. wright: the rapture mentality has meant that people
- 00:51:57.873 --> 00:52:00.509
- Have been living out of a whole narrative which is superimposed
- 00:52:00.509 --> 00:52:04.680
- Onto the bible, which is not the story that the bible is telling.
- 00:52:04.680 --> 00:52:08.016
- David currie: don't worry about the second coming
- 00:52:08.016 --> 00:52:09.718
- As much as worrying about being
- 00:52:09.718 --> 00:52:11.186
- The kind of christian that you need to be today.
- 00:52:11.186 --> 00:52:11.186
