Happily Ever After? | TBN

Happily Ever After?

Watch Happily Ever After?
October 11, 2020
27:29

It Is Written seeks to impact lives for Christ.

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Happily Ever After?

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  • ♪[Theme music]♪
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  • -John Bradshaw:This is It Is Written.
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  • I'm John Bradshaw.Thanks for joining me.
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  • Everybody has dreams,and we like to think
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  • that our dreams come true,but they don't always.
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  • What happens when you havedreams, big dreams, life goals,
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  • and those dreams comecrashing down around you?
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  • And when they do, what then?
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  • Is God able to give backto you what was taken away?
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  • My special guest todayis Juliet Van Heerden.
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  • She is an author,public speaker.
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  • She is a teacher andthe wife of a pastor.
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  • Juliet's story is a storyexperienced by many people
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  • all around the world.
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  • Juliet, thanks for joining metoday and sharing your story.
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  • I appreciate you being here.
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  • -Juliet Van Heerden:Thank you for the invitation.
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  • -John: Hey, let's go backto about where you think
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  • the beginning is.
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  • Where does your story--it's a fascinating story;
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  • it's a moving story,a very powerful story,
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  • and a story that's goingto impact a lot of lives
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  • as you share it.
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  • So where doesthis story begin?
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  • -Juliet: I grew up ina Christian, um, family,
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  • Christian home.
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  • My mom is a very, um,devout Christian woman.
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  • But I am theproduct of divorce,
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  • and my parentsdivorced when I was four.
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  • And then when I was 14, um,there was another divorce.
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  • And so I was a child whoexperienced the feelings
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  • of abandonment and the ideathat happily ever after
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  • doesn't alwaysturn out that way.
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  • And I made a vowto myself as a child
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  • that I would never get divorced.
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  • And I didn't want that legacy,
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  • and that was a promisethat I made to myself
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  • and really ended uptrying very hard to keep.
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  • -John: So, as you werejourneying through life
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  • towards the fulfillment ofall your plans and dreams,
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  • where did that journey take you?
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  • -Juliet: I graduatedfrom college,
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  • and I thought that I wasbeing left behind
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  • as I was the bridesmaidin several weddings
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  • and not the bride.
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  • And so I feel like probablyI rushed God a little bit
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  • and pushed ahead andchose a mate for myself
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  • that might not havebeen the mate
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  • He would havechosen for me.
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  • -John: Walk, walk throughthat dynamic with me.
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  • You got married along the way.
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  • Tell me how that,how that came to be.
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  • Tell me about the circumstancesaround your marriage.
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  • -Juliet: I ended up makinga decision to marry a person
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  • that I probably would nothave consciously chosen,
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  • but sometimes, as a youngperson, we'll make a compromise.
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  • And I tell young peoplewhen I speak to them,
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  • "Be careful who you date.
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  • Be careful who yougo on one date with
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  • because that person mightend up being the person
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  • you spend the restof your life with."
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  • And I tell my students,"Do your homework,"
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  • but I didn't do mine,
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  • and I did not even knowwhat questions to ask
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  • a potential spouse.
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  • I didn't, um, I justdidn't research.
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  • I took everything at face value.I was a very trusting person.
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  • -John: I remembersaying to my fiancée,
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  • "Check me out; do your homework.
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  • Go and talk to the people whomake up the fabric of my life."
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  • -Juliet: That's right.
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  • -John: I was scared to deathwhen she actually did.
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  • -Juliet: [Laughs]Ah, but it's good.
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  • -John: When she did thatand then said "I do"
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  • was one of the biggestsurprises of my life, but...
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  • So that's the sort of thingyou're talking about, right?
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  • -Juliet: Mm-hm.Accountability.
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  • -John: Yeah.
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  • So how do you marry someonewithout really knowing them?
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  • You did.
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  • -Juliet: Right. Well, I mean,you get caught up in the moment.
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  • You, you believe a person.
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  • You take, you take whatyou see at this moment,
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  • and you don't realizethat there's something
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  • behind what you see.
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  • So, I mean, I just felt,I felt excited that someone
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  • was interested in me,that they, um, enjoyed
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  • some of the same thingsthat I enjoyed.
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  • Yes, we had a little bitdifferent, um, background,
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  • but I was an optimist.
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  • I thought that whateverwasn't just right
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  • I could make right.
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  • And, um, I recently heard asermon where, uh, someone said
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  • women need, need to notthink of men as projects,
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  • and men need to not thinkof women as possessions.
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  • And, um, I think I,I like a project,
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  • and so that might havebeen part of it, um,
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  • a challenge that, you know, youcan, you can change a person.
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  • -John: So in your experienceyou discovered
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  • you can't change a person?
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  • -Juliet: No.
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  • -John: Did you try?
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  • -Juliet: Oh, yes.
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  • -John: How did you try?
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  • -Juliet: Mm. [Laughs ruefully]I manipulated.
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  • I, I tried tocontrol the person.
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  • I tried to, um, forcethem into my mold.
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  • And you can't take a personwho is who they are
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  • and try to make them someonethat you want them to be.
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  • But when I realizedthings weren't exactly,
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  • um, happily ever after for me,
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  • I, I was really trying very hardto make this person fit into,
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  • into what I thought was the moldfor a good Christian husband.
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  • -John: So you've got toaccept some imperfections,
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  • some limitations--right?--
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  • -Juliet: Of course.
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  • -John: ...in a person.
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  • But there are some thingsyou should never accept
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  • and think that you're goingto be able to change.
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  • How do we knowwhere that line is?
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  • -Juliet: Well, knowingourselves is important,
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  • you know, knowing, knowing whatI can live with and what I,
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  • what I can't, becauseno one's perfect.
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  • I mean, I wasn't a perfect, um,spouse or a perfect person,
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  • either, and I didn't,um, I really just,
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  • I wasn't sure what to dowith the things that I saw
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  • that weren't right,
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  • but I think honesty is like acore foundational, uh, piece.
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  • If, if we have a questionabout a person's integrity
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  • or about their honesty,or if we catch them in a lie
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  • or something like that, thenwe really need to not brush--
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  • I would say that to any woman--don't brush that under the rug.
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  • Really have your radar up.
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  • If you get that feelinglike something's fishy,
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  • something's not right,follow through with that.
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  • Don't ignore that.
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  • Because if we are, if weare dealing with a person
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  • who's not honest, then we'regoing to have serious problems.
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  • -John: Now, if youdetect dishonesty
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  • before you walkdown the aisle?
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  • -Juliet: Run.
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  • -John: If you detect it afteryou walk down the aisle,
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  • what do we do then?
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  • -Juliet: Pray.
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  • [Laughs ruefully]It's--I experienced it.
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  • I experienced it, shortlyafter I walked down the aisle.
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  • Um, I was, I was able tocatch the person in the lie.
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  • And it was devastating.
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  • And I really didn'tknow what to do.
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  • I wanted to undowhat I had done,
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  • but remember the vowthat I made to myself:
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  • I'm never goingto get divorced.
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  • So what do I do?
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  • Well, then you kick into this"I can change this person.
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  • I can fix this person."
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  • Uh, and your prayers become allabout "God change this person,"
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  • and you forget that you'realso a broken person
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  • in need of a Savior.
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  • -John: You say the thingto do is to pray.
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  • -Juliet: Yes.
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  • -John: But I'm certainyou would advocate
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  • some other concrete steps.
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  • Who do you talk to?
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  • I know it will, I know it willdepend on what your spouse
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  • is involved in.
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  • -Juliet: What'sgoing on, of course.
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  • -John: But who are the typeof people you can turn to
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  • when you're in a marriageand you think to yourself,
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  • "Oh, my goodness, this isnot what I signed up for"?
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  • -Juliet: No, I would definitelyfind a trusted, um, friend,
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  • counselor.
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  • Um, I advocate for recoverygroups and a support system
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  • where, where wecan be transparent
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  • about what's really going on.
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  • I, I wish that I had been.
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  • If I had been honest andtransparent and listened
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  • to godly counsel, I might havemade some different decisions,
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  • but I just walled up andkept everything close to me.
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  • -John: How do you advisea young woman or a young man
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  • who is staring the rest ofhis or her life in the face
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  • and now realizing, uh-oh.
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  • How do they go about extricatingthemselves from that?
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  • -Juliet: Taking a breakfrom the intensity,
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  • the emotional intensityof what's going on,
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  • and sometimes if things arewrong, um, it's more intense.
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  • There will be pressure from aperson to make a quick decision:
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  • "Let's just do this."
  • 00:08:59.228 --> 00:09:00.463
  • You know, that's when you needto raise your eyebrow and go,
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  • "Wait a second. We don'tneed to rush this thing."
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  • If it's really a solidthing and a good thing,
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  • it will still be there.
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  • But give yourselfa moment to breathe,
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  • to pray, to listento people you trust,
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  • and, um, and come back and say,
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  • "Is this, is this true?Or is this emotion I'm riding?"
  • 00:09:18.748 --> 00:09:23.085
  • -John: In just a moment,when we come back,
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  • I wanna, I want to walk withyou through your experience,
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  • your experiencethat led to divorce,
  • 00:09:27.857 --> 00:09:29.492
  • what went wrong, what mightyou have done better,
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  • and, uh, in doing so, yourstory's going to be a help
  • 00:09:32.795 --> 00:09:35.531
  • and a blessing tomany other people.
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  • We'll be right backwith my conversation
  • 00:09:37.533 --> 00:09:39.602
  • with Juliet Van Heerdenin just a moment.
  • 00:09:39.635 --> 00:09:42.004
  • ♪[Music]♪
  • 00:09:42.038 --> 00:09:49.712
  • -Announcer: Modern life makesforming relationships hard.
  • 00:09:51.047 --> 00:09:53.649
  • We crave a solidfamily life,
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  • but oftentimes don't knowhow to create it.
  • 00:09:55.251 --> 00:09:57.720
  • This book can help.
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  • "Hope for Today's Families"
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  • walks you throughbuilding relationships,
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  • communicating effectively,and forming bonds for eternity.
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  • Get "Hope for Today's Families."
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  • It's free.
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  • Call800-253-3000
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  • or visit us online today atiiwoffer.com.
  • 00:10:11.801 --> 00:10:16.005
  • Hope is just a call away:800-253-3000.
  • 00:10:16.038 --> 00:10:20.710
  • ♪[Soft piano music]♪
  • 00:10:21.544 --> 00:10:26.348
  • -Man 1: What does the Bible sayabout astrology?
  • 00:10:26.382 --> 00:10:28.784
  • -Man 2: Why do bad thingshappen to good people?
  • 00:10:33.255 --> 00:10:36.525
  • -Girl: What color is Jesus?
  • 00:10:41.263 --> 00:10:44.433
  • -John Bradshaw:If you have a question,
  • 00:10:44.467 --> 00:10:45.434
  • we'd love to find an answer
  • 00:10:45.468 --> 00:10:46.736
  • for you from the Bible.
  • 00:10:46.769 --> 00:10:48.270
  • Line Upon Line
  • 00:10:48.304 --> 00:10:49.105
  • from It Is Written TV.
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  • -John Bradshaw:Thanks for joining me today
  • 00:10:51.907 --> 00:10:53.542
  • on It Is Written.
  • 00:10:53.576 --> 00:10:54.744
  • I'm John Bradshaw, and my guestis public speaker, author,
  • 00:10:54.777 --> 00:10:58.414
  • and teacherJuliet Van Heerden.
  • 00:10:58.447 --> 00:11:01.350
  • Juliet, let's go back to--we, we spoke to the issues
  • 00:11:01.383 --> 00:11:05.421
  • surrounding about, surroundingmarriages and mistakes
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  • and who to speak toand when and so on,
  • 00:11:08.858 --> 00:11:10.626
  • but let's talk aboutyour experience.
  • 00:11:10.659 --> 00:11:12.495
  • You walk down the aisle.You said "I do."
  • 00:11:12.528 --> 00:11:14.396
  • You were the happiestgirl in the world.
  • 00:11:14.430 --> 00:11:16.098
  • -Juliet Van Heerden:I was.
  • 00:11:16.132 --> 00:11:17.333
  • And I, I thought that I wasdoing right because I did marry
  • 00:11:17.366 --> 00:11:20.870
  • someone who was a Christian,and, um, who had promised
  • 00:11:20.903 --> 00:11:25.808
  • to come to church,and we did pray together.
  • 00:11:25.841 --> 00:11:29.445
  • So there were, there were a lotof things that were positive
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  • and right and good,
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  • and we had a relationshipthat I felt was real.
  • 00:11:33.582 --> 00:11:38.387
  • And, um, then I started noticingthat things were not always
  • 00:11:38.420 --> 00:11:44.994
  • what they seemed to be.
  • 00:11:45.027 --> 00:11:46.996
  • -John: What did you noticethat really bothered you?
  • 00:11:47.029 --> 00:11:49.231
  • -Juliet: I call him "John."
  • 00:11:49.265 --> 00:11:50.566
  • It's not his real name,but we'll call him "John"
  • 00:11:50.599 --> 00:11:52.201
  • because I want him to belike a real person,
  • 00:11:52.234 --> 00:11:54.603
  • and, um, I'm definitelynot wanting to vilify him
  • 00:11:54.637 --> 00:11:58.440
  • as a person.
  • 00:11:58.474 --> 00:11:59.108
  • -John: Sure.
  • 00:11:59.141 --> 00:12:00.075
  • -Juliet: He was, you know,a human being.
  • 00:12:00.109 --> 00:12:01.143
  • But when, when moneywasn't accounted for,
  • 00:12:01.177 --> 00:12:06.982
  • when, uh, things didn't add up,stories didn't add up.
  • 00:12:07.016 --> 00:12:13.322
  • Uh, we startedgetting into debt.
  • 00:12:13.355 --> 00:12:15.858
  • He would have unexplainedillness a lot of times.
  • 00:12:15.891 --> 00:12:19.662
  • A lot of accidentswould happen to him.
  • 00:12:19.695 --> 00:12:22.231
  • He worked in construction.
  • 00:12:22.264 --> 00:12:24.233
  • And sometimes weird thingswould happen that, you know,
  • 00:12:24.266 --> 00:12:28.904
  • the staple gun wentthrough the hand, or--
  • 00:12:28.938 --> 00:12:31.674
  • [Laughs] you know, just,just too many accidents.
  • 00:12:31.707 --> 00:12:35.611
  • -John: And what was it?
  • 00:12:35.644 --> 00:12:36.979
  • -Juliet: It was cocaine.
  • 00:12:37.012 --> 00:12:39.515
  • -John: Let me ask this first,
  • 00:12:39.548 --> 00:12:40.583
  • and then I'll askfor your response.
  • 00:12:40.616 --> 00:12:41.717
  • When did you realize youwere married to a drug addict?
  • 00:12:41.750 --> 00:12:45.087
  • -Juliet: Yeah, it wasbasically kind of
  • 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.223
  • all around the same time.
  • 00:12:47.256 --> 00:12:48.190
  • -John: Yeah.
  • 00:12:48.224 --> 00:12:49.391
  • -Juliet: But he was so addictedby that time that he was,
  • 00:12:49.425 --> 00:12:51.794
  • like it was kind of life ordeath at that point in time.
  • 00:12:51.827 --> 00:12:55.164
  • And I had reachedout to someone,
  • 00:12:55.197 --> 00:12:57.499
  • to a substance-abusecounselor, and they said,
  • 00:12:57.533 --> 00:12:59.835
  • "Look, it's going to bethe cemetery or the rehab.
  • 00:12:59.869 --> 00:13:03.405
  • Your choice."
  • 00:13:03.439 --> 00:13:04.306
  • That's what they said to him.
  • 00:13:04.340 --> 00:13:05.908
  • -John: What did he choose?
  • 00:13:05.941 --> 00:13:07.042
  • -Juliet: He chose the rehab.
  • 00:13:07.076 --> 00:13:08.043
  • -John: How did it go?
  • 00:13:08.077 --> 00:13:09.211
  • -Juliet: I thoughtit went great.
  • 00:13:09.245 --> 00:13:11.046
  • [Laughs]I thought it went great.
  • 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.749
  • He checked in for, for 28 days,and he did stay clean.
  • 00:13:13.782 --> 00:13:18.020
  • -John: So things turned around?
  • 00:13:18.053 --> 00:13:19.855
  • -Juliet: Mm-hm.
  • 00:13:19.889 --> 00:13:20.522
  • -John: For how long?
  • 00:13:20.556 --> 00:13:21.190
  • -Juliet: For a while.
  • 00:13:21.223 --> 00:13:22.191
  • -John: Yeah?
  • 00:13:22.224 --> 00:13:22.858
  • -Juliet: For a while. Um...
  • 00:13:22.892 --> 00:13:24.460
  • -John: And how did you notice?
  • 00:13:24.493 --> 00:13:25.427
  • -Juliet: I...
  • 00:13:25.461 --> 00:13:26.362
  • -John: How did you noticethat things were
  • 00:13:26.395 --> 00:13:27.529
  • no longer going well?
  • 00:13:27.563 --> 00:13:28.330
  • -Juliet: Oh, man,I never knew.
  • 00:13:28.364 --> 00:13:29.565
  • Like, it was, I never knew.
  • 00:13:29.598 --> 00:13:30.566
  • Even those firstsix years of marriage,
  • 00:13:30.599 --> 00:13:32.234
  • like, sometimes he was using,sometimes he wasn't;
  • 00:13:32.268 --> 00:13:34.136
  • sometimes he was clean;sometimes he wasn't.
  • 00:13:34.169 --> 00:13:35.771
  • I, I never knew where he was
  • 00:13:35.804 --> 00:13:38.240
  • because I think he didn't wantto be the slave to this, either.
  • 00:13:38.274 --> 00:13:41.543
  • -John: What would he belike when he relapsed?
  • 00:13:41.577 --> 00:13:43.412
  • How would that affect himemotionally and physically?
  • 00:13:43.445 --> 00:13:46.849
  • -Juliet: Well, oncehe got clean and sober,
  • 00:13:46.882 --> 00:13:51.053
  • he was back to normal, andwe would just try to go on
  • 00:13:51.086 --> 00:13:53.989
  • with life, you know, backto church, back to work,
  • 00:13:54.023 --> 00:13:56.825
  • back to, you know, tried to havesome semblance of normalcy
  • 00:13:56.859 --> 00:13:59.862
  • in our marriage.
  • 00:13:59.895 --> 00:14:00.796
  • And, um, and thenwhen he would relapse,
  • 00:14:00.829 --> 00:14:04.400
  • he would just disappear.
  • 00:14:04.433 --> 00:14:05.401
  • He would disappear,sometimes for days,
  • 00:14:05.434 --> 00:14:07.236
  • usually on a Fridaybecause that's payday,
  • 00:14:07.269 --> 00:14:09.838
  • and, um, you know, come homewhen the money was gone.
  • 00:14:09.872 --> 00:14:13.442
  • -John: You've saidyou like a project,
  • 00:14:13.475 --> 00:14:14.777
  • and you liketo fix things.
  • 00:14:14.810 --> 00:14:15.811
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:14:15.844 --> 00:14:16.745
  • -John: So did you getabout fixing him?
  • 00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:17.980
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:14:18.013 --> 00:14:19.114
  • -John: Did you think, "Okay,we're gonna fix this"?
  • 00:14:19.148 --> 00:14:20.582
  • How did youendeavor to fix it?
  • 00:14:20.616 --> 00:14:21.984
  • -Juliet: So, I was afraidthat he was gonna die.
  • 00:14:22.017 --> 00:14:23.986
  • I was afraid thathe was gonna OD.
  • 00:14:24.019 --> 00:14:25.888
  • I was afraid thatsomeone would find out
  • 00:14:25.921 --> 00:14:27.990
  • about our dirty family secret.
  • 00:14:28.023 --> 00:14:29.825
  • And so I tried tocontrol everything.
  • 00:14:29.858 --> 00:14:31.860
  • I, I tried to controlevery penny.
  • 00:14:31.894 --> 00:14:34.029
  • You, you have your bosswrite the paycheck to me.
  • 00:14:34.063 --> 00:14:36.865
  • I'm going to controlthe finances,
  • 00:14:36.899 --> 00:14:39.001
  • and I'll give you anallowance, just what you need.
  • 00:14:39.034 --> 00:14:41.704
  • But that was the waythat I coped.
  • 00:14:41.737 --> 00:14:44.106
  • Um, crack down and control.
  • 00:14:44.139 --> 00:14:45.841
  • Well, then you'renot a spouse;
  • 00:14:45.874 --> 00:14:47.543
  • you're, you're amother, a bad one,
  • 00:14:47.576 --> 00:14:50.045
  • [Laughs]you know.
  • 00:14:50.079 --> 00:14:51.647
  • -John: And, and evidentlythat's not what you planned.
  • 00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:54.416
  • -Juliet: No.
  • 00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:55.284
  • -John: What was thatdoing to you?
  • 00:14:55.317 --> 00:14:56.518
  • -Juliet: No.It was tearing me up.
  • 00:14:56.552 --> 00:14:57.853
  • I was, I was sick.I had ulcers.
  • 00:14:57.886 --> 00:15:00.189
  • I was, um, constantlystressed out.
  • 00:15:00.222 --> 00:15:03.525
  • I was... The controllingthing just didn't work.
  • 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:08.530
  • But I couldn't stopbeing controlling.
  • 00:15:08.564 --> 00:15:11.200
  • -John: How many people--I'mgetting ahead of myself here--
  • 00:15:11.233 --> 00:15:14.136
  • how common is this in church?
  • 00:15:14.169 --> 00:15:18.607
  • Not just in society--in church,for families to be dealing
  • 00:15:18.640 --> 00:15:21.977
  • with someone who'sbattling addiction issues--
  • 00:15:22.011 --> 00:15:24.913
  • how common?
  • 00:15:24.947 --> 00:15:26.048
  • -Juliet: I would venture to sayevery family has someone
  • 00:15:26.081 --> 00:15:31.553
  • that they love or care aboutwho's addicted to something,
  • 00:15:31.587 --> 00:15:35.357
  • either chemical dependency,um, pornography.
  • 00:15:35.391 --> 00:15:40.229
  • -John: As your husbandwas descending
  • 00:15:40.262 --> 00:15:43.332
  • into self-destruction,
  • 00:15:43.365 --> 00:15:45.534
  • and your marriage wasstarting to unravel,
  • 00:15:45.567 --> 00:15:48.170
  • what was this doingto you spiritually?
  • 00:15:48.203 --> 00:15:51.673
  • -Juliet: I was really havinga spiritual awakening.
  • 00:15:51.707 --> 00:15:54.576
  • I was, I was learning totrust God and to love Him
  • 00:15:54.610 --> 00:16:00.349
  • and to know that He loved me.
  • 00:16:00.382 --> 00:16:01.917
  • I, it makes me just emotionaljust thinking about how God
  • 00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:06.955
  • opened my eyesto His love for me.
  • 00:16:06.989 --> 00:16:08.657
  • And I grew up knowingabout God's love,
  • 00:16:08.690 --> 00:16:11.293
  • singing "Jesus loves me,this I know."
  • 00:16:11.326 --> 00:16:14.296
  • I knew what God's Word said,
  • 00:16:14.329 --> 00:16:16.465
  • but through that experienceI learned to trust Him.
  • 00:16:16.498 --> 00:16:20.369
  • -John: See, I canimagine a person saying,
  • 00:16:20.402 --> 00:16:22.671
  • "Spiritually I was devastated,
  • 00:16:22.704 --> 00:16:24.139
  • and I felt like I wasa million miles from God,"
  • 00:16:24.173 --> 00:16:26.208
  • and I know thathappens to people.
  • 00:16:26.241 --> 00:16:27.543
  • It didn't happen to you.
  • 00:16:27.576 --> 00:16:29.011
  • What was going onthat this experience
  • 00:16:29.044 --> 00:16:31.113
  • drew you closer to God?
  • 00:16:31.146 --> 00:16:33.549
  • This, I think is a,is a very key point
  • 00:16:33.582 --> 00:16:36.151
  • because a lot of people end upadrift and without hope.
  • 00:16:36.185 --> 00:16:39.388
  • -Juliet: Right.
  • 00:16:39.421 --> 00:16:40.456
  • -John: What was it about youor your experience
  • 00:16:40.489 --> 00:16:42.391
  • or your upbringingor your faith community
  • 00:16:42.424 --> 00:16:44.693
  • that saw this experiencedraw you closer to God?
  • 00:16:44.726 --> 00:16:49.031
  • What made the difference?
  • 00:16:49.064 --> 00:16:50.399
  • -Juliet: You know, I shouldhave spoken with others,
  • 00:16:50.432 --> 00:16:52.868
  • but I didn't.
  • 00:16:52.901 --> 00:16:53.802
  • And so God waswho I talked to,
  • 00:16:53.836 --> 00:16:55.871
  • and I talked to Him, likewhen I was driving to school,
  • 00:16:55.904 --> 00:16:58.707
  • I would have to put myselftogether because to be able
  • 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:01.677
  • to smile and be sweetto first grade children,
  • 00:17:01.710 --> 00:17:04.580
  • you know, you have to,
  • 00:17:04.613 --> 00:17:05.747
  • you have to get it togetherbefore you get to school.
  • 00:17:05.781 --> 00:17:07.850
  • And so that was my time
  • 00:17:07.883 --> 00:17:09.051
  • where I would just pour myheart out to God as I'm driving.
  • 00:17:09.084 --> 00:17:11.453
  • Like, "Lord, I, I've got work todo today. I need You to help me.
  • 00:17:11.487 --> 00:17:14.990
  • [Voice quavers] Help mefocus on loving these kids."
  • 00:17:15.023 --> 00:17:17.893
  • And He would do it.
  • 00:17:17.926 --> 00:17:19.895
  • Like, I could just feel thepeace of God come over me,
  • 00:17:19.928 --> 00:17:22.831
  • and I could do my work;I could do my job.
  • 00:17:22.865 --> 00:17:24.967
  • I could, I could loveon the kids at school.
  • 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:28.103
  • And, and when I pouredmy heart out to the Lord,
  • 00:17:28.137 --> 00:17:30.806
  • He came, and He wasvery real to me.
  • 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:35.310
  • -John: So where would yoube now, do you think,
  • 00:17:35.344 --> 00:17:37.513
  • if you didn't haveGod to lean on?
  • 00:17:37.546 --> 00:17:39.648
  • -Juliet: I would havedriven my car off a bridge
  • 00:17:39.681 --> 00:17:42.017
  • or slit my wrists ordone something awful.
  • 00:17:42.050 --> 00:17:44.987
  • -John: And somethingkept you from that?
  • 00:17:45.020 --> 00:17:47.055
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:47.923
  • I didn't, I didn'twant to hurt Him.
  • 00:17:47.956 --> 00:17:49.958
  • I didn't want to hurtmy friend God.
  • 00:17:49.992 --> 00:17:52.728
  • And I believe thatyou're not ever alone.
  • 00:17:52.761 --> 00:17:56.198
  • We are never alone.
  • 00:17:56.231 --> 00:17:57.766
  • -John: We're going to talkabout that in just a moment.
  • 00:17:57.799 --> 00:17:59.635
  • He's always there,and He's always for you.
  • 00:17:59.668 --> 00:18:03.906
  • More of my conversationwith Juliet Van Heerden
  • 00:18:03.939 --> 00:18:06.608
  • in just a moment.
  • 00:18:06.642 --> 00:18:08.010
  • ♪[Music]♪
  • 00:18:08.043 --> 00:18:14.983
  • -John: Thank youfor remembering
  • 00:18:16.952 --> 00:18:17.986
  • that It Is Written exists
  • 00:18:18.020 --> 00:18:19.521
  • because of the kindnessof people just like you.
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  • To support this internationallife-changing ministry,
  • 00:18:22.357 --> 00:18:25.561
  • please call us now at800-253-3000.
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  • You can send yourtax-deductible gift
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  • to the addresson your screen,
  • 00:18:31.333 --> 00:18:32.768
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  • 00:18:32.801 --> 00:18:36.605
  • Thank you for your prayersand for your financial support.
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  • Our number again is800-253-3000,
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  • or you can visit us online atitiswritten.com.
  • 00:18:43.478 --> 00:18:46.815
  • -John Bradshaw:Thanks for joining me today
  • 00:18:47.849 --> 00:18:49.651
  • on It Is Written.
  • 00:18:49.685 --> 00:18:51.186
  • My guest, Juliet Van Heerden, issharing her story of addiction,
  • 00:18:51.220 --> 00:18:55.457
  • codependency, recovery,
  • 00:18:55.490 --> 00:18:58.026
  • and the miracle of God'srestoration in her life.
  • 00:18:58.060 --> 00:19:01.263
  • Okay. Your husbandis drug-addicted.
  • 00:19:01.296 --> 00:19:04.967
  • He's lying; he's sick;he's in and out of rehab;
  • 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:08.604
  • your home has been robbed.
  • 00:19:08.637 --> 00:19:11.707
  • You were divorced.
  • 00:19:11.740 --> 00:19:13.342
  • How'd that happen?
  • 00:19:13.375 --> 00:19:14.343
  • How did you finallyget to the point,
  • 00:19:14.376 --> 00:19:16.078
  • or how did circumstancesbring you to the place
  • 00:19:16.111 --> 00:19:18.180
  • where this is over andit's not getting better?
  • 00:19:18.213 --> 00:19:20.849
  • -Juliet Van Heerden: Um, well,"John" just said to me,
  • 00:19:20.882 --> 00:19:23.085
  • "I am tired of livingthe double life.
  • 00:19:23.118 --> 00:19:25.687
  • I don't want to be the Christianhusband that you want me to be.
  • 00:19:25.721 --> 00:19:30.726
  • I want to drink what I want,smoke what I want,
  • 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:36.064
  • watch what I want,snort what I want."
  • 00:19:36.098 --> 00:19:39.635
  • And I was able to walkaway feeling relieved.
  • 00:19:39.668 --> 00:19:46.008
  • -John: I wanted toask you about that.
  • 00:19:46.041 --> 00:19:48.377
  • When he says, "I'm done."
  • 00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:49.845
  • -Juliet: Mm-hm.
  • 00:19:49.878 --> 00:19:50.712
  • -John: Was there painby that stage?
  • 00:19:50.746 --> 00:19:52.848
  • You said "relief."
  • 00:19:52.881 --> 00:19:54.650
  • So, it wasn't as painfulas if he'd said that
  • 00:19:54.683 --> 00:19:59.021
  • a number of years earlier?
  • 00:19:59.054 --> 00:20:00.422
  • -Juliet: I just felt likeI had done my absolute best
  • 00:20:00.455 --> 00:20:04.293
  • and given it everythingthat I could possibly do,
  • 00:20:04.326 --> 00:20:07.095
  • but a person is free tomake their own choices.
  • 00:20:07.129 --> 00:20:10.165
  • -John: Offer a word ofencouragement to somebody
  • 00:20:10.198 --> 00:20:12.067
  • who might be in the situationthat you were in then,
  • 00:20:12.100 --> 00:20:14.136
  • and they feel like, "If I don'thang in here to the grim death,
  • 00:20:14.169 --> 00:20:17.806
  • then somehow I've let God down."
  • 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:19.374
  • How do you know, how do youknow when you've done your best,
  • 00:20:19.408 --> 00:20:22.477
  • and it's time to let go?
  • 00:20:22.511 --> 00:20:23.979
  • -Juliet: Well, I think, I thinkthe Lord lets us know.
  • 00:20:24.012 --> 00:20:27.316
  • And sometimes we hang on...
  • 00:20:27.349 --> 00:20:29.851
  • beyond the point whereGod has released us.
  • 00:20:29.885 --> 00:20:34.022
  • And God--it is not God'sdesire for anyone to be
  • 00:20:34.056 --> 00:20:38.026
  • in an abusive situation.
  • 00:20:38.060 --> 00:20:40.195
  • And I had a very difficult timeusing the word "abuse"
  • 00:20:40.228 --> 00:20:43.398
  • to describe, um, my marriage.
  • 00:20:43.432 --> 00:20:47.302
  • But, as I look back, I can sayI was in an abusive marriage.
  • 00:20:47.336 --> 00:20:52.641
  • I was being financially abused.
  • 00:20:52.674 --> 00:20:54.509
  • I was being emotionallyneglected, verbally abused.
  • 00:20:54.543 --> 00:20:59.948
  • And, and so, as I look at that,I know that's not God's will,
  • 00:20:59.981 --> 00:21:03.819
  • and that, and that'snot God's plan for us.
  • 00:21:03.852 --> 00:21:05.987
  • We need to be safe.
  • 00:21:06.021 --> 00:21:07.723
  • And sometimes God makesprovision for, for people.
  • 00:21:07.756 --> 00:21:12.394
  • Um, He says He hates divorce.
  • 00:21:12.427 --> 00:21:14.596
  • Yes, He does because it'spainful and devastating.
  • 00:21:14.629 --> 00:21:18.233
  • But there is provision.
  • 00:21:18.266 --> 00:21:19.801
  • There are, there are timeswhen it's a relief.
  • 00:21:19.835 --> 00:21:23.839
  • -John: Back up a few years.
  • 00:21:23.872 --> 00:21:24.840
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:21:24.873 --> 00:21:25.841
  • -John: You were worriedthat someone might learn
  • 00:21:25.874 --> 00:21:26.708
  • your dirty little secret.
  • 00:21:26.742 --> 00:21:27.709
  • Now, years later--
  • 00:21:27.743 --> 00:21:29.010
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:21:29.044 --> 00:21:30.212
  • -John: ...the secret's out,and yet people embraced you.
  • 00:21:30.245 --> 00:21:32.114
  • -Juliet: They embraced me,and they loved me.
  • 00:21:32.147 --> 00:21:33.982
  • And they loved "John"through it, too.
  • 00:21:34.015 --> 00:21:35.617
  • I mean, once we started sharing,
  • 00:21:35.650 --> 00:21:37.686
  • we found that people embracedus and loved us through it.
  • 00:21:37.719 --> 00:21:41.556
  • And it was beautifulto just be like,
  • 00:21:41.590 --> 00:21:44.926
  • oh, I don't have to carry thisburden of a secret anymore.
  • 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:49.598
  • So, I, I would encouragepeople: Please share.
  • 00:21:49.631 --> 00:21:53.335
  • Find a safe place andshare with somebody.
  • 00:21:53.368 --> 00:21:55.437
  • Don't hold it.
  • 00:21:55.470 --> 00:21:56.671
  • -John: Along the way,you wrote a book.
  • 00:21:56.705 --> 00:21:58.340
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:21:58.373 --> 00:21:59.174
  • -John: "Same Dress,Different Day."
  • 00:21:59.207 --> 00:22:00.642
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:22:00.675 --> 00:22:01.476
  • -John: Why did youwrite the book?
  • 00:22:01.510 --> 00:22:03.345
  • -Juliet: Believe me,I didn't want to.
  • 00:22:03.378 --> 00:22:05.280
  • Um, for, for doingpublic speaking now
  • 00:22:05.313 --> 00:22:08.984
  • and for being a teacher,I'm actually an introvert,
  • 00:22:09.017 --> 00:22:12.220
  • and I'm a very private person.
  • 00:22:12.254 --> 00:22:14.289
  • And that's why I kept my mouthclosed for so long about things.
  • 00:22:14.322 --> 00:22:17.692
  • I did not wantto write this book.
  • 00:22:17.726 --> 00:22:19.494
  • I am a writer.I love to write.
  • 00:22:19.528 --> 00:22:21.930
  • But I was, you know, journalingand writing for myself,
  • 00:22:21.963 --> 00:22:25.434
  • never thinking I would tellmy story to other people.
  • 00:22:25.467 --> 00:22:28.537
  • But the Holy Spirit justkept on me about this,
  • 00:22:28.570 --> 00:22:31.072
  • that, that you needto share this story
  • 00:22:31.106 --> 00:22:33.308
  • because it will bringhope to others.
  • 00:22:33.341 --> 00:22:35.210
  • And as a pastor's wife,I started hearing the stories
  • 00:22:35.243 --> 00:22:38.180
  • of people in churchwho were suffering,
  • 00:22:38.213 --> 00:22:39.915
  • families that are sufferingwith the same kind of problems
  • 00:22:39.948 --> 00:22:42.717
  • that I experienced.
  • 00:22:42.751 --> 00:22:44.252
  • And I really had so muchcompassion for them,
  • 00:22:44.286 --> 00:22:46.488
  • and, and a few peoplesaid to me,
  • 00:22:46.521 --> 00:22:48.023
  • "You need to share your story.You need to write your story.
  • 00:22:48.056 --> 00:22:50.492
  • You need to write your story."
  • 00:22:50.525 --> 00:22:51.626
  • And I kept putting it off.
  • 00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:53.128
  • And I knew it would be difficultbecause I was happy;
  • 00:22:53.161 --> 00:22:56.298
  • I was living thehappily ever after.
  • 00:22:56.331 --> 00:22:57.766
  • Who wants to go back andthink about that stuff?
  • 00:22:57.799 --> 00:22:59.768
  • And in order to write well, youneed to relive it in your mind.
  • 00:22:59.801 --> 00:23:04.573
  • But, um, Andre, my husband,he gave me permission to do it.
  • 00:23:04.606 --> 00:23:08.910
  • He set me--it was verygracious of him as a man--
  • 00:23:08.944 --> 00:23:12.447
  • he gave me permission to goback and to relive that pain
  • 00:23:12.481 --> 00:23:15.917
  • and to write about "John"and to, um, to share my story.
  • 00:23:15.951 --> 00:23:20.755
  • And it took me about threeyears from start to finish,
  • 00:23:20.789 --> 00:23:25.193
  • um, because it was hard.
  • 00:23:25.227 --> 00:23:27.028
  • I would write a bit, andthen I'd take a long break.
  • 00:23:27.062 --> 00:23:30.465
  • But it was published in 2015,
  • 00:23:30.499 --> 00:23:33.168
  • and the responsesfrom readers has been...
  • 00:23:33.201 --> 00:23:36.671
  • [Voice quavers]It hurts me so much to hear
  • 00:23:36.705 --> 00:23:38.840
  • what they have to say.
  • 00:23:38.874 --> 00:23:39.908
  • They say to me,"You're telling my story."
  • 00:23:39.941 --> 00:23:43.144
  • -John: Give some advice tothat, that woman especially--
  • 00:23:43.178 --> 00:23:47.048
  • doesn't have to be a woman--
  • 00:23:47.082 --> 00:23:48.016
  • -Juliet: Mm-hm.
  • 00:23:48.049 --> 00:23:49.150
  • -John: ...who's in arelationship that's just
  • 00:23:49.184 --> 00:23:50.919
  • spiraling downwards.
  • 00:23:50.952 --> 00:23:52.254
  • Nothing he or shecan do about it.
  • 00:23:52.287 --> 00:23:54.222
  • There's addictions,or whatever the case is.
  • 00:23:54.256 --> 00:23:57.659
  • Where should they go?
  • 00:23:57.692 --> 00:23:58.660
  • -Juliet: No, and,and Dr. Larry Crabb says,
  • 00:23:58.693 --> 00:24:00.929
  • "Healing takes placein community."
  • 00:24:00.962 --> 00:24:02.831
  • So we need to find a communityof people where we feel safe,
  • 00:24:02.864 --> 00:24:07.102
  • and who--where we're notalone in our suffering;
  • 00:24:07.135 --> 00:24:09.137
  • our suffering is,sorrow is divided.
  • 00:24:09.170 --> 00:24:11.673
  • Um, and I would, I wouldsuggest finding a local, um,
  • 00:24:11.706 --> 00:24:15.477
  • Christ-centered recovery, um,group, recovery community.
  • 00:24:15.510 --> 00:24:19.481
  • Al-Anon is a wonderful resource.
  • 00:24:19.514 --> 00:24:22.083
  • Um, find a group that meetsregularly for codependents.
  • 00:24:22.117 --> 00:24:25.820
  • There's Codependents Anonymouswhere, uh, those--
  • 00:24:25.854 --> 00:24:28.723
  • that's those of us who,who get caught in the cycle
  • 00:24:28.757 --> 00:24:31.459
  • of rescuing that loved one.
  • 00:24:31.493 --> 00:24:33.028
  • Um, not everyone canafford counseling,
  • 00:24:33.061 --> 00:24:35.864
  • professional counseling.
  • 00:24:35.897 --> 00:24:36.965
  • It's a wonderfulresource, if you can.
  • 00:24:36.998 --> 00:24:39.301
  • But if you can't, there arepeople, um, who meet regularly
  • 00:24:39.334 --> 00:24:43.338
  • and talk and share and, um.
  • 00:24:43.371 --> 00:24:46.041
  • And be a reader. Um,learn about addiction.
  • 00:24:46.074 --> 00:24:49.144
  • Learn about boundaries.Learn about codependency.
  • 00:24:49.177 --> 00:24:52.213
  • Find out, um, about yourselfand what you can do,
  • 00:24:52.247 --> 00:24:57.519
  • and then find a safe place whereyou can share and grow and heal.
  • 00:24:57.552 --> 00:25:02.791
  • There is hope.
  • 00:25:02.824 --> 00:25:04.159
  • ♪[Music]♪
  • 00:25:04.192 --> 00:25:12.067
  • -Announcer: Modern life makesforming relationships hard.
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  • We crave a solidfamily life,
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  • but oftentimes don't knowhow to create it.
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  • This book can help.
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  • "Hope for Today's Families"
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  • walks you throughbuilding relationships,
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  • communicating effectively,and forming bonds for eternity.
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  • Get "Hope for Today's Families."
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  • It's free.
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  • Call800-253-3000
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  • or visit us online today atiiwoffer.com.
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  • Hope is just a call away:800-253-3000.
  • 00:25:37.993 --> 00:25:42.530
  • -John Bradshaw:Juliet, let's pray together.
  • 00:25:43.531 --> 00:25:45.000
  • Let's pray.
  • 00:25:45.033 --> 00:25:46.501
  • Our Father in heaven,
  • 00:25:46.534 --> 00:25:47.502
  • we are grateful that Youare the God who gives.
  • 00:25:47.535 --> 00:25:50.071
  • You don't take away.
  • 00:25:50.105 --> 00:25:51.206
  • You give.
  • 00:25:51.239 --> 00:25:51.873
  • You restore.You remake.
  • 00:25:51.906 --> 00:25:54.309
  • Thank You that Youare never done with us,
  • 00:25:54.342 --> 00:25:56.911
  • that You always love us.
  • 00:25:56.945 --> 00:25:58.513
  • You don't turn from us,even when we turn from You.
  • 00:25:58.546 --> 00:26:02.250
  • Our Father, I want to prayright now for that woman,
  • 00:26:02.283 --> 00:26:05.987
  • that man, that young person,
  • 00:26:06.021 --> 00:26:08.490
  • who is struggling as lifecrashes down around them,
  • 00:26:08.523 --> 00:26:12.627
  • and allow that the challengesof this life would only turn us
  • 00:26:12.661 --> 00:26:16.564
  • in Your direction,
  • 00:26:16.598 --> 00:26:17.799
  • to embrace You, and neverto turn us away from You.
  • 00:26:17.832 --> 00:26:22.804
  • Lord, we thank You,and we love You,
  • 00:26:22.837 --> 00:26:25.874
  • and we pray inJesus' name, amen.
  • 00:26:25.907 --> 00:26:30.045
  • Thanks so muchfor joining me.
  • 00:26:30.078 --> 00:26:31.413
  • I'm looking forward toseeing you again next time.
  • 00:26:31.446 --> 00:26:33.882
  • Until then, remember:
  • 00:26:33.915 --> 00:26:35.850
  • "It is written, 'Man shallnot live by bread alone,
  • 00:26:35.884 --> 00:26:40.155
  • but by every word that proceedsfrom the mouth of God.'"
  • 00:26:40.188 --> 00:26:45.026
  • ♪[Theme music]♪
  • 00:26:45.060 --> 00:27:15.690