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Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace

Jim Scudder, Jr. - The Shroud of Turin: Fact or Fiction (Part 2)

April 19, 2025 | S7:E325

Jim Scudder, Jr. - The Shroud of Turin: Fact or Fiction (Part 2)
Is the man in the Shroud of Turin really Jesus? This week, Jim Scudder travels to Texas to answer this life changing question.
#Faith #Blessing #Forgiveness #Religion #WordofGod #inActive #Genesis3:15 #Crucifixion #BloodofJesus #JimScudder #Intimacy #ScottStripling #JeremiahJohnston

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Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace | Jim Scudder, Jr. - The Shroud of Turin: Fact or Fiction (Part 2) | April 19, 2025
  • ...
  • 00:00:00.633 --> 00:00:01.450
  • Craig evans: if we're going to accept science, we're going to
  • 00:00:01.550 --> 00:00:03.952
  • Accept all of the evidence we have.
  • 00:00:04.086 --> 00:00:05.754
  • I think there's--the most sensible conclusion is it's
  • 00:00:05.888 --> 00:00:09.425
  • Jesus of nazareth.
  • 00:00:09.558 --> 00:00:09.858
  • To me that's the most rational and best explanation
  • 00:00:11.260 --> 00:00:14.730
  • Given the facts we know.
  • 00:00:14.730 --> 00:00:18.133
  • ♪♪♪
  • 00:00:18.133 --> 00:00:19.601
  • Jim scudder: the shroud of turin is so fascinating because it's
  • 00:00:19.601 --> 00:00:22.404
  • The image of a crucified man.
  • 00:00:22.404 --> 00:00:24.673
  • But not just any crucified man, this one had a wound on his side
  • 00:00:24.673 --> 00:00:29.611
  • From a piercing and it had a crown of thorns.
  • 00:00:29.611 --> 00:00:34.383
  • ♪♪♪
  • 00:00:34.383 --> 00:00:36.985
  • Jim: is the mysterious shroud of turin real proof of jesus's
  • 00:00:36.985 --> 00:00:41.290
  • Crucifixion or just an ancient relic?
  • 00:00:41.290 --> 00:00:45.527
  • Today on "ingrace," we take a closer look at the incredible
  • 00:00:45.527 --> 00:00:49.431
  • Details: the blood stains, the brutal whipping marks, the
  • 00:00:49.431 --> 00:00:53.702
  • Nail-pierced hands and feet, and even the crown of thorns.
  • 00:00:53.702 --> 00:00:58.941
  • Could this be the image of the savior?
  • 00:00:58.941 --> 00:01:02.044
  • Join us as we uncover the evidence and talk again with
  • 00:01:02.044 --> 00:01:05.881
  • Renowned biblical history scholars dr. scott stripling,
  • 00:01:05.881 --> 00:01:09.952
  • Dr. craig evans, and dr. jeremiah johnston
  • 00:01:09.952 --> 00:01:12.955
  • To answer the question,
  • 00:01:12.955 --> 00:01:14.623
  • Is the man of the shroud really jesus?
  • 00:01:14.623 --> 00:01:19.628
  • The markings on the shroud seem to show a lot of blood.
  • 00:01:19.628 --> 00:01:23.365
  • Wouldn't that blood be easy to replicate?
  • 00:01:23.365 --> 00:01:26.502
  • Couldn't someone just paint or sprinkle animal blood on
  • 00:01:26.502 --> 00:01:29.805
  • The fabric?
  • 00:01:29.805 --> 00:01:31.473
  • Jim: blood on the shroud.
  • 00:01:31.540 --> 00:01:33.142
  • This is human blood, right?
  • 00:01:33.142 --> 00:01:34.743
  • Jeremiah johnston: correct.
  • 00:01:34.743 --> 00:01:36.078
  • Jim: and it's actually--usually blood dries like brown or black,
  • 00:01:36.078 --> 00:01:39.148
  • But this has stayed red.
  • 00:01:39.148 --> 00:01:41.016
  • Why?
  • 00:01:41.016 --> 00:01:42.384
  • Jeremiah: the blood--and this is a high resolution ultra-focused
  • 00:01:42.384 --> 00:01:44.653
  • Image where you can see the blood absorbing, and that'll
  • 00:01:44.653 --> 00:01:48.190
  • Come into play when we talk about the image itself; but the
  • 00:01:48.190 --> 00:01:51.160
  • Blood absorbs all the way through, and it's type ab blood.
  • 00:01:51.160 --> 00:01:54.329
  • This is semitic human blood.
  • 00:01:54.963 --> 00:01:57.366
  • Only 2 to 3% of the world's population has type ab blood.
  • 00:01:57.366 --> 00:02:01.503
  • If there ever was a priestly blood, it would be this one.
  • 00:02:01.503 --> 00:02:05.340
  • But we know that the crucified man, and this is very current in
  • 00:02:05.340 --> 00:02:09.344
  • The studies, has high levels of ferritin, he's experiencing
  • 00:02:09.344 --> 00:02:13.582
  • Organ failure, very high levels of creatinine.
  • 00:02:13.582 --> 00:02:16.618
  • So for medical professionals watching this, they would
  • 00:02:16.618 --> 00:02:18.987
  • Immediately understand jesus's experience, the man of the
  • 00:02:18.987 --> 00:02:22.791
  • Shroud is experience organ failure.
  • 00:02:22.791 --> 00:02:26.461
  • Craig: but what's really extraordinary is that not only
  • 00:02:26.461 --> 00:02:29.298
  • Is it human blood, there are traces of bilirubin in it, which
  • 00:02:29.298 --> 00:02:34.069
  • Is what keeps the blood ruddy, reddish color instead of turning
  • 00:02:34.069 --> 00:02:40.075
  • A very dark brown almost black.
  • 00:02:40.075 --> 00:02:43.212
  • Bilirubin is released when there's severe trauma, trauma to
  • 00:02:43.212 --> 00:02:49.785
  • The body as a whole or to the internal organs as well.
  • 00:02:49.785 --> 00:02:53.855
  • It releases from the liver.
  • 00:02:53.855 --> 00:02:56.558
  • And when it goes into the blood then that blood, you know, is
  • 00:02:56.558 --> 00:03:03.332
  • Shed, it leaks out through the wounds and it dries out.
  • 00:03:03.332 --> 00:03:08.070
  • In ages it stays red, and that's exactly the kind of blood that
  • 00:03:08.070 --> 00:03:13.775
  • You would expect to be left behind.
  • 00:03:13.775 --> 00:03:16.979
  • No faker in antiquity could possibly know that.
  • 00:03:16.979 --> 00:03:21.450
  • Jim: the science behind the blood of the shroud
  • 00:03:21.516 --> 00:03:23.585
  • Is intriguing.
  • 00:03:23.585 --> 00:03:25.187
  • Scott and craig pointed out another interesting observation,
  • 00:03:25.187 --> 00:03:29.291
  • Which was that the man of the shroud appears to have coins on
  • 00:03:29.291 --> 00:03:33.362
  • His eyes.
  • 00:03:33.362 --> 00:03:35.163
  • Scott stripling: notice that there appear to be coins in the
  • 00:03:35.163 --> 00:03:39.034
  • Eye sockets of the man on the shroud.
  • 00:03:39.034 --> 00:03:42.004
  • Jim: what was the point of having a coin on the eye?
  • 00:03:42.004 --> 00:03:46.341
  • Craig: keep the eyes closed.
  • 00:03:46.341 --> 00:03:47.743
  • Jim: okay, so that to me makes sense.
  • 00:03:47.743 --> 00:03:49.578
  • Scott: but the key is, whose coin is it?
  • 00:03:49.578 --> 00:03:53.415
  • This is one of the coins of pontius pilate.
  • 00:03:53.415 --> 00:03:56.451
  • How in the world would a medieval forger know what a coin
  • 00:03:56.451 --> 00:04:00.789
  • Of pontius pilate was and to be able to place them there,
  • 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:04.393
  • Knowing that that custom existed?
  • 00:04:04.393 --> 00:04:07.796
  • Jim: the blood markings seem to show a crown of thorns on the
  • 00:04:07.796 --> 00:04:11.199
  • Man of the shroud.
  • 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:12.934
  • I asked scott and craig why it looked more like a helmet of
  • 00:04:12.934 --> 00:04:16.872
  • Thorns instead of a headband.
  • 00:04:16.872 --> 00:04:19.641
  • Scott: look at the size.
  • 00:04:19.641 --> 00:04:21.009
  • That's about 3 inches.
  • 00:04:21.009 --> 00:04:22.644
  • So if that's pushed into your brow, a man--no wonder we have
  • 00:04:22.644 --> 00:04:27.049
  • The blood pattern that we have on the man on the shroud.
  • 00:04:27.049 --> 00:04:30.319
  • Scott: you're seeing wounds, blood appearing in different
  • 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:34.323
  • Places on the scalp on top.
  • 00:04:34.323 --> 00:04:37.592
  • So that's what it does appear, that it's more of a helmet of
  • 00:04:37.592 --> 00:04:40.529
  • Thorns rather than just a crown of thorns.
  • 00:04:40.529 --> 00:04:45.667
  • That's also something that is not typically done, and they, of
  • 00:04:45.667 --> 00:04:49.805
  • Course, are mocking jesus by doing this.
  • 00:04:49.805 --> 00:04:52.841
  • Little do they know that the thorns are the symbol of the
  • 00:04:52.841 --> 00:04:57.045
  • Curse after the fall, then the earth begins to bring
  • 00:04:57.045 --> 00:05:00.415
  • Forth thorns.
  • 00:05:00.415 --> 00:05:01.783
  • And so jesus bears these thorns and so he is, of course,
  • 00:05:01.783 --> 00:05:04.886
  • Removing the curse from our lives in doing that.
  • 00:05:04.886 --> 00:05:07.789
  • Theologically we have a concept called the protoevangelium, the
  • 00:05:07.789 --> 00:05:11.793
  • First mention of the gospel in the bible, and it comes from
  • 00:05:11.793 --> 00:05:14.830
  • Genesis chapter 3, verse 15.
  • 00:05:14.830 --> 00:05:17.199
  • "i will put enmity between you and the woman," speaking to the
  • 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:20.435
  • Serpent--god speaking to the serpent, "between your seed and
  • 00:05:20.435 --> 00:05:24.005
  • Her seed.
  • 00:05:24.005 --> 00:05:25.474
  • You will strike his heel, but he will crush your head."
  • 00:05:25.474 --> 00:05:30.112
  • First promise we have of redemption.
  • 00:05:30.112 --> 00:05:33.014
  • And you get at the place of the skull and the cross is driven
  • 00:05:33.014 --> 00:05:38.019
  • Into golgotha, into the place of the skull.
  • 00:05:38.019 --> 00:05:40.455
  • And so literally you see this crushing of the skull.
  • 00:05:40.455 --> 00:05:44.025
  • So it's the wearing of the crown of thorns and it's the crushing
  • 00:05:44.025 --> 00:05:47.729
  • Of the skull that represents our redemption.
  • 00:05:47.729 --> 00:05:52.467
  • Jim: another interesting proof found in the blood markings is
  • 00:05:52.467 --> 00:05:55.504
  • The appearance of a spear wound on the man of the shroud.
  • 00:05:55.504 --> 00:05:59.674
  • Jim: a very unusual aspect of jesus's crucifixion
  • 00:05:59.674 --> 00:06:02.577
  • Is that he was speared.
  • 00:06:02.577 --> 00:06:05.013
  • You're not going to find that, i guess, in archaeology except for
  • 00:06:05.013 --> 00:06:08.984
  • Maybe just him.
  • 00:06:08.984 --> 00:06:10.452
  • Scott: i mean, the only--the whole reason for putting him up
  • 00:06:10.452 --> 00:06:13.555
  • There is to keep him up as long as possible so that he suffer as
  • 00:06:13.555 --> 00:06:16.591
  • Much as possible.
  • 00:06:16.591 --> 00:06:18.660
  • To accomplish the purpose, it's just because it's shabbat and
  • 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:22.764
  • It's passover shabbat and they got to get him off the cross.
  • 00:06:22.764 --> 00:06:26.001
  • Jim: and pilate was surprised that he had died so quickly,
  • 00:06:26.001 --> 00:06:29.905
  • Right, on his own.
  • 00:06:29.905 --> 00:06:31.373
  • So that was unusual.
  • 00:06:31.373 --> 00:06:33.041
  • And then also if his legs would have been broken, that would
  • 00:06:33.041 --> 00:06:36.578
  • Have been unusual as well.
  • 00:06:36.578 --> 00:06:38.513
  • But they broke the two next to jesus, broke both of those legs.
  • 00:06:38.513 --> 00:06:42.250
  • Scott: it's called crurifragium.
  • 00:06:42.250 --> 00:06:43.952
  • It's the breaking of the legs.
  • 00:06:43.952 --> 00:06:45.887
  • Then, of course, they can't breathe.
  • 00:06:45.887 --> 00:06:47.289
  • They have to push down.
  • 00:06:47.289 --> 00:06:48.723
  • So if you can't push down, you can't breathe and then
  • 00:06:48.723 --> 00:06:52.961
  • You'll suffocate.
  • 00:06:52.961 --> 00:06:54.296
  • But in jesus's case, in our view, to fulfill prophecy his
  • 00:06:54.296 --> 00:06:57.599
  • Legs are not broken.
  • 00:06:57.599 --> 00:06:59.034
  • Jim: both are prophetic, that his bones won't be broken and
  • 00:06:59.034 --> 00:07:01.436
  • That he would be pierced.
  • 00:07:01.436 --> 00:07:02.804
  • Craig: yeah.
  • 00:07:02.804 --> 00:07:04.139
  • And then, of course, john's gospel runs with that because
  • 00:07:04.139 --> 00:07:05.474
  • Now you can compare his death to the death of the passover lamb
  • 00:07:05.474 --> 00:07:08.677
  • Whose bones are not supposed to be broken either.
  • 00:07:08.677 --> 00:07:11.546
  • Jim: the blood and pierced side seem to add up, but i'm still
  • 00:07:11.546 --> 00:07:16.051
  • Very skeptical.
  • 00:07:16.051 --> 00:07:17.886
  • Are there any biblical prophecies that the man of the
  • 00:07:17.886 --> 00:07:21.723
  • Shroud seems to fulfill?
  • 00:07:21.723 --> 00:07:26.094
  • Scott: see what's missing there?
  • 00:07:26.094 --> 00:07:28.563
  • You see that?
  • 00:07:28.563 --> 00:07:29.931
  • What does the bible tell you they did to his beard?
  • 00:07:29.931 --> 00:07:33.535
  • They pulled out his beard.
  • 00:07:33.535 --> 00:07:35.837
  • What do you see on the man of the shroud and you can see it in
  • 00:07:35.837 --> 00:07:38.373
  • The image?
  • 00:07:38.373 --> 00:07:39.708
  • A gap right there.
  • 00:07:39.708 --> 00:07:41.042
  • Those details are just unbelievable.
  • 00:07:41.042 --> 00:07:44.145
  • Jim: any comments on the hair?
  • 00:07:44.145 --> 00:07:45.947
  • Craig: well, in the law of moses, men are not supposed to
  • 00:07:45.947 --> 00:07:51.286
  • Do funny things with their hair--their beard or hair.
  • 00:07:51.286 --> 00:07:53.855
  • We don't exactly know how that would be interpreted in
  • 00:07:53.855 --> 00:07:56.358
  • Jesus's day.
  • 00:07:56.358 --> 00:07:57.692
  • And so biblical literature says leave your hair alone.
  • 00:07:57.692 --> 00:08:00.996
  • Don't mess with it.
  • 00:08:00.996 --> 00:08:02.564
  • Yes, it's true the nazirites would let their hair grow very
  • 00:08:02.564 --> 00:08:06.401
  • Long and their beards very long.
  • 00:08:06.401 --> 00:08:08.503
  • Men did trim their beards, shorten them, but they did
  • 00:08:08.503 --> 00:08:11.740
  • Not--they weren't clean-shaven.
  • 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:13.642
  • Jeremiah: as we look more closely at some of the other
  • 00:08:13.642 --> 00:08:16.311
  • Imagery, we'll see there are not only places where the beard is
  • 00:08:16.311 --> 00:08:19.881
  • Plucked the nose is broken.
  • 00:08:19.881 --> 00:08:21.783
  • Now, let me be very clear.
  • 00:08:21.783 --> 00:08:23.652
  • The nose, it's actually a separated septum.
  • 00:08:23.652 --> 00:08:26.521
  • There's not a bone in the nose.
  • 00:08:26.521 --> 00:08:28.356
  • So when we refer to someone's nose being broken, i don't mean
  • 00:08:28.356 --> 00:08:31.393
  • That i'm violating scripture because it says none of his
  • 00:08:31.393 --> 00:08:34.362
  • Bones will be broken, but i am talking about we see evidence
  • 00:08:34.362 --> 00:08:37.399
  • That he was bludgeoned on the face and likely has a separated
  • 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.403
  • Septum or a broken nose.
  • 00:08:41.403 --> 00:08:44.172
  • Jim: the crown of thorns and side wound seem to prove the
  • 00:08:44.172 --> 00:08:46.841
  • Authenticity of the shroud.
  • 00:08:46.841 --> 00:08:48.977
  • Scott wanted to show me one more evidence that had to deal with
  • 00:08:48.977 --> 00:08:52.714
  • The placement of the nails in the feet.
  • 00:08:52.714 --> 00:08:55.850
  • Scott: i'm just really moved by seeing this placement right here
  • 00:08:55.850 --> 00:09:00.055
  • That appears the ankle because the four crucifixion victims
  • 00:09:00.055 --> 00:09:03.925
  • That we have with nails in their feet that's where they all are.
  • 00:09:03.925 --> 00:09:07.762
  • No one would have ever known that before.
  • 00:09:07.762 --> 00:09:10.899
  • Really, most of the victims were in the last 5 years.
  • 00:09:10.899 --> 00:09:13.568
  • Scott: but from the examples that we have, four examples now
  • 00:09:13.568 --> 00:09:17.238
  • Of crucifixion victims, they're always from the outside in
  • 00:09:17.238 --> 00:09:21.509
  • With--as if the stipes, the beam--the vertical beam is
  • 00:09:21.509 --> 00:09:25.647
  • Between the feet and they're being nailed from the
  • 00:09:25.647 --> 00:09:27.682
  • Outside in.
  • 00:09:27.682 --> 00:09:29.250
  • Craig: and we have crucifixion victims in the roman period of
  • 00:09:29.250 --> 00:09:32.287
  • Time, one of them right there in israel, famously a man named
  • 00:09:32.287 --> 00:09:35.323
  • Jehohanan, and the nail is still in his right heel.
  • 00:09:35.323 --> 00:09:40.028
  • And we have found two other crucified men whose skeletons
  • 00:09:40.028 --> 00:09:44.532
  • Are completely preserved and they were crucified right
  • 00:09:44.532 --> 00:09:47.769
  • Through the heel also.
  • 00:09:47.769 --> 00:09:50.038
  • Scott: it pierces the bone, but it doesn't break the bone.
  • 00:09:50.038 --> 00:09:54.275
  • Craig: there's nothing about these photos that se--that
  • 00:09:54.275 --> 00:09:58.513
  • Necessitate the nail going through the top of the foot.
  • 00:09:58.513 --> 00:10:02.150
  • Scott: no.
  • 00:10:02.150 --> 00:10:03.485
  • So it's exciting that we live in a day we know more now than we
  • 00:10:03.485 --> 00:10:07.789
  • Have ever known.
  • 00:10:07.789 --> 00:10:09.124
  • Our problem is not lack of evidence, our problem is lack
  • 00:10:09.124 --> 00:10:11.993
  • Of faith.
  • 00:10:11.993 --> 00:10:13.428
  • And now we actually get a glimpse, though, maybe through a
  • 00:10:13.428 --> 00:10:16.197
  • Glass darkly, but when we look at the image on the shroud i
  • 00:10:16.197 --> 00:10:19.668
  • Think we're getting a glimpse.
  • 00:10:19.668 --> 00:10:21.269
  • ♪♪♪
  • 00:10:21.336 --> 00:10:28.543
  • Jim: i would love to send you this video series "the shroud of
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  • Turin: fact or fiction."
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  • Jim: john 20, verses 6 and 7 describe a face cloth that was
  • 00:11:13.875 --> 00:11:18.279
  • Separate from the shroud.
  • 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.648
  • Where is that face cloth today, and does it also have an image
  • 00:11:20.648 --> 00:11:25.086
  • Of the man on the shroud?
  • 00:11:25.086 --> 00:11:27.622
  • Jeremiah: the sudarium of oviedo, which has been in spain
  • 00:11:27.622 --> 00:11:31.559
  • Since the 7th century, has the same blood type.
  • 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:36.064
  • Before jesus is prepared for burial, he is dead on the cross.
  • 00:11:36.064 --> 00:11:40.335
  • His head is down, and in jewish burial traditions you did
  • 00:11:40.335 --> 00:11:43.771
  • Not--you even wanted to collect the blood.
  • 00:11:43.771 --> 00:11:45.974
  • You didn't want the blood to be left behind.
  • 00:11:45.974 --> 00:11:48.376
  • The blood was part of the--there's no life without
  • 00:11:48.376 --> 00:11:50.845
  • The blood.
  • 00:11:50.845 --> 00:11:52.213
  • The soul is in the blood.
  • 00:11:52.213 --> 00:11:53.548
  • And so they wrap his face with a wrap to protect the mouth, to
  • 00:11:53.548 --> 00:11:58.887
  • Protect the nostrils from the blood and water oozing out.
  • 00:11:58.887 --> 00:12:02.657
  • And so that is wrapped as they prepare the body for burial.
  • 00:12:02.657 --> 00:12:06.628
  • When they begin to wrap the new shroud, the clean shroud, they
  • 00:12:06.628 --> 00:12:10.164
  • Remove that wrap and they throw it in the corner, and that's
  • 00:12:10.164 --> 00:12:13.368
  • Where that comes from.
  • 00:12:13.368 --> 00:12:14.736
  • The sudarium of oviedo is what i believe that is.
  • 00:12:14.736 --> 00:12:18.239
  • Jim: did this head-covering napkin have the pulse, the
  • 00:12:18.239 --> 00:12:22.310
  • Light, the image or is it just the blood stains?
  • 00:12:22.310 --> 00:12:24.245
  • Jeremiah: because that happened before the resurrection.
  • 00:12:24.245 --> 00:12:26.314
  • That was used before.
  • 00:12:26.314 --> 00:12:28.116
  • Jim: got it. got it.
  • 00:12:28.116 --> 00:12:29.450
  • And then it says it was folded.
  • 00:12:29.450 --> 00:12:30.985
  • Does that--is there significance with that on the head napkin or
  • 00:12:30.985 --> 00:12:34.389
  • Do you think jesus did anything with that for them to be able to
  • 00:12:34.389 --> 00:12:39.160
  • Say, "oh, he's definitely resurrected?"
  • 00:12:39.160 --> 00:12:40.528
  • Jeremiah: i think we're--what's significant is they followed
  • 00:12:40.528 --> 00:12:43.097
  • Jewish burial traditions.
  • 00:12:43.097 --> 00:12:44.432
  • And so it shows that jesus was given proper burial.
  • 00:12:44.432 --> 00:12:47.602
  • Craig: i think that we're really down to only one option that
  • 00:12:50.972 --> 00:12:54.208
  • Makes sense, and that it is the burial shroud of jesus.
  • 00:12:54.208 --> 00:12:58.546
  • The idea that, well, maybe it's some other 1st century
  • 00:12:58.546 --> 00:13:00.882
  • Crucifixion victim that, you know, had a crown of thorns
  • 00:13:00.882 --> 00:13:04.385
  • Jammed on his head, got stabbed in the side, which is not the
  • 00:13:04.385 --> 00:13:08.222
  • Routine for crucifixion; oh, come on, at that point you may
  • 00:13:08.222 --> 00:13:11.926
  • As well say there were two jesuses both crucified and both
  • 00:13:11.926 --> 00:13:15.263
  • Resurrected with a burst of energy and light in the
  • 00:13:15.263 --> 00:13:19.133
  • 1st century.
  • 00:13:19.133 --> 00:13:20.501
  • Well, how plausible is that?
  • 00:13:20.501 --> 00:13:22.270
  • So i think we're--we really are--if we're going to accept
  • 00:13:22.270 --> 00:13:25.340
  • Science, we're going to accept all of the evidence we have
  • 00:13:25.340 --> 00:13:28.409
  • Without special pleading.
  • 00:13:28.409 --> 00:13:31.145
  • I think there's--the most sensible conclusion is it's
  • 00:13:31.145 --> 00:13:34.949
  • Jesus of nazareth.
  • 00:13:34.949 --> 00:13:36.751
  • To me that's the most rational and best explanation given the
  • 00:13:36.751 --> 00:13:41.689
  • Facts we know.
  • 00:13:41.689 --> 00:13:44.459
  • Jim: if the man on the shroud really is jesus, we can start to
  • 00:13:44.459 --> 00:13:48.896
  • Comprehend the depths of suffering that jesus endured for
  • 00:13:48.896 --> 00:13:53.034
  • Our sins.
  • 00:13:53.034 --> 00:13:54.635
  • I don't think we will ever truly understand just how brutal the
  • 00:13:54.635 --> 00:13:59.073
  • Crucifixion of jesus really was, but the blood stains and
  • 00:13:59.073 --> 00:14:03.644
  • Markings on the shroud give us just a brief glimpse of what he
  • 00:14:03.644 --> 00:14:08.983
  • Experienced for us.
  • 00:14:08.983 --> 00:14:11.386
  • Jim: some of the aspects of the shroud that the shroud contains
  • 00:14:11.386 --> 00:14:15.523
  • Evidence of, the flogging.
  • 00:14:15.523 --> 00:14:17.825
  • This crucified victim, if it's authentic and if it's jesus, was
  • 00:14:17.825 --> 00:14:22.463
  • Hit at least 300 and something times with these--with
  • 00:14:22.463 --> 00:14:29.337
  • This whip.
  • 00:14:29.337 --> 00:14:30.705
  • A hundred and twenty strokes, but each whip has three pieces
  • 00:14:30.705 --> 00:14:34.709
  • To it, right?
  • 00:14:34.709 --> 00:14:36.044
  • So you have--and it's not just the back, it's the front and the
  • 00:14:36.044 --> 00:14:39.180
  • Back and it's on all parts of the body.
  • 00:14:39.180 --> 00:14:41.816
  • How excruciating would that be?
  • 00:14:41.816 --> 00:14:43.351
  • How terrible would just that be?
  • 00:14:43.351 --> 00:14:45.820
  • Scott: just one of these lashes with the lead weights in them,
  • 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:49.123
  • You would be feeling that for weeks, the effects of that.
  • 00:14:49.123 --> 00:14:52.794
  • Jeremiah: i want the viewers to understand, jim, the intimacy of
  • 00:14:52.794 --> 00:14:55.863
  • The torture that jesus experienced.
  • 00:14:55.863 --> 00:14:58.933
  • Sometimes when we think of a whip, we think of something like
  • 00:14:58.933 --> 00:15:01.135
  • An indiana jones.
  • 00:15:01.135 --> 00:15:02.470
  • They're--you know, they're whipping him from 20 feet away.
  • 00:15:02.470 --> 00:15:05.173
  • No.
  • 00:15:05.173 --> 00:15:06.507
  • I want you to look at this.
  • 00:15:06.507 --> 00:15:07.875
  • This is an accurate roman flagrum, and each lash inflicts
  • 00:15:07.875 --> 00:15:11.479
  • No less than six wounds because there are three cords.
  • 00:15:11.479 --> 00:15:15.283
  • On each cords you have the barbell lead balls.
  • 00:15:15.283 --> 00:15:20.588
  • And i want to be clear, every part of jesus's body
  • 00:15:20.588 --> 00:15:25.827
  • Was wounded.
  • 00:15:25.827 --> 00:15:27.195
  • There was no part that didn't receive a lash on the body,
  • 00:15:27.195 --> 00:15:31.766
  • Front or back.
  • 00:15:31.766 --> 00:15:33.134
  • Jim: i've heard that many don't even survive that.
  • 00:15:33.134 --> 00:15:36.037
  • Jeremiah: correct.
  • 00:15:36.037 --> 00:15:37.405
  • That's correct.
  • 00:15:37.405 --> 00:15:38.739
  • Jim: he went through that for us.
  • 00:15:38.739 --> 00:15:40.074
  • Jeremiah: it's why he could barely carry the cross after the
  • 00:15:40.074 --> 00:15:41.542
  • Flagellation because it was so--but it wa--there
  • 00:15:41.542 --> 00:15:44.912
  • Was an--there was a demonic intimacy to it.
  • 00:15:44.912 --> 00:15:46.981
  • There were two.
  • 00:15:46.981 --> 00:15:48.316
  • So it's appropriate that you and i are holding it, and each
  • 00:15:48.316 --> 00:15:50.518
  • Was lashing.
  • 00:15:50.518 --> 00:15:51.886
  • We know one of the tormentors was taller than the other just
  • 00:15:51.886 --> 00:15:54.489
  • From the abrasions.
  • 00:15:54.489 --> 00:15:55.823
  • And anytime someone wonders if god loves them, all they have to
  • 00:15:55.823 --> 00:16:00.495
  • Do is turn to romans 5:8 and say, "but god demonstrated his
  • 00:16:00.495 --> 00:16:04.966
  • Love for us, in that, while we were yet sinners, christ endured
  • 00:16:04.966 --> 00:16:08.870
  • This for you and me and for the whole world."
  • 00:16:08.870 --> 00:16:11.472
  • Jim: incredible.
  • 00:16:11.472 --> 00:16:12.840
  • And perhaps worse than all of this is he was becoming sin.
  • 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:17.078
  • Jeremiah: that's right.
  • 00:16:17.078 --> 00:16:18.446
  • And he who knew no sin became sin for us so that in him we
  • 00:16:18.446 --> 00:16:24.051
  • Might become the righteousness of god.
  • 00:16:24.051 --> 00:16:25.853
  • And that's what--when the mystery of the shroud, when you
  • 00:16:25.853 --> 00:16:29.323
  • Look into it, you begin to have a personal experience with jesus
  • 00:16:29.323 --> 00:16:34.095
  • Because you understand if you were the only person who ever
  • 00:16:34.095 --> 00:16:37.231
  • Believed in jesus he still would have come.
  • 00:16:37.231 --> 00:16:39.567
  • Jim: yes.
  • 00:16:39.567 --> 00:16:40.902
  • And that's the amazing part of all of this; is what he's done
  • 00:16:40.902 --> 00:16:44.505
  • It, he's done it for us.
  • 00:16:44.505 --> 00:16:45.840
  • He's done it for me, for my sins.
  • 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.476
  • I deserved this.
  • 00:16:48.476 --> 00:16:50.211
  • I deserved eternity separated from him, but that's his love.
  • 00:16:50.211 --> 00:16:54.182
  • And we know that god is love.
  • 00:16:54.182 --> 00:16:56.050
  • Bible says god is love.
  • 00:16:56.050 --> 00:16:57.818
  • We know he is a gracious god, a merciful god, but he is holy.
  • 00:16:57.818 --> 00:17:02.890
  • So we can't just ignore it.
  • 00:17:02.890 --> 00:17:04.692
  • He has to punish it, but he then chose to put it upon his son.
  • 00:17:04.692 --> 00:17:09.263
  • Jeremiah: and without the shedding of blood there's no
  • 00:17:09.263 --> 00:17:11.199
  • Forgiveness; and we see he shed it for us, and he did
  • 00:17:11.199 --> 00:17:14.168
  • So willingly.
  • 00:17:14.168 --> 00:17:15.536
  • Jim: amazing.
  • 00:17:15.536 --> 00:17:16.904
  • Jim: the shroud of turin is truly a very interesting object.
  • 00:17:20.775 --> 00:17:25.846
  • It's one of those things that gives us a glimpse into what
  • 00:17:25.846 --> 00:17:30.885
  • Jesus looked like.
  • 00:17:30.885 --> 00:17:33.120
  • And, again, i'm not saying this is for sure, but the weight of
  • 00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:37.225
  • Evidence sure seems very interesting to me.
  • 00:17:37.225 --> 00:17:40.895
  • But more important than any of this is that jesus is god.
  • 00:17:40.895 --> 00:17:46.000
  • He came.
  • 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.335
  • Jesus died on a cross for your sins.
  • 00:17:47.335 --> 00:17:50.471
  • He suffered.
  • 00:17:50.471 --> 00:17:51.806
  • He was beaten.
  • 00:17:51.806 --> 00:17:53.374
  • He was hung on a cross for your sins, for my sins.
  • 00:17:53.374 --> 00:17:57.178
  • He died.
  • 00:17:57.178 --> 00:17:58.980
  • His blood and water poured out after they pierced his side.
  • 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:03.284
  • All of these things predicted hundreds of years before
  • 00:18:03.284 --> 00:18:05.553
  • He came.
  • 00:18:05.553 --> 00:18:06.887
  • He was put into a grave with a linen cloth over him and that
  • 00:18:06.887 --> 00:18:11.058
  • Cloth was there when peter and john came to the tomb, for he
  • 00:18:11.058 --> 00:18:15.162
  • Had risen as he said.
  • 00:18:15.162 --> 00:18:17.565
  • He appeared to them.
  • 00:18:17.565 --> 00:18:18.933
  • Hundreds of people saw him.
  • 00:18:18.933 --> 00:18:20.268
  • He is alive.
  • 00:18:20.268 --> 00:18:21.602
  • I am positive just as real as i'm standing here today, he is
  • 00:18:21.602 --> 00:18:25.072
  • Alive and he wants to save you from your sins.
  • 00:18:25.072 --> 00:18:28.909
  • See, we're all sinners.
  • 00:18:28.909 --> 00:18:30.244
  • No matter how religious, no matter how good we try to be,
  • 00:18:30.244 --> 00:18:33.648
  • We fail.
  • 00:18:33.648 --> 00:18:35.182
  • We sin.
  • 00:18:35.182 --> 00:18:36.684
  • That's why he came, to die for us.
  • 00:18:36.684 --> 00:18:39.520
  • And he told nicodemus, the one who came and helped joseph take
  • 00:18:39.520 --> 00:18:44.025
  • His body off the cross, anoint him with spices, he--jesus told
  • 00:18:44.025 --> 00:18:48.562
  • Nicodemus earlier, he said, "for god so love the world that he
  • 00:18:48.562 --> 00:18:51.599
  • Gave his only begotten son," referring to himself, "that
  • 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.535
  • Whosoever believeth in him--" that means to just trust in not
  • 00:18:54.535 --> 00:18:59.040
  • Religion, not a priest or a pastor but the person of jesus.
  • 00:18:59.040 --> 00:19:02.677
  • Put your faith in him.
  • 00:19:02.677 --> 00:19:04.278
  • You will not perish but have everlasting life.
  • 00:19:04.278 --> 00:19:09.583
  • That's the greatest news in the world, and you can know for sure
  • 00:19:09.583 --> 00:19:12.653
  • Today that you're on your way to heaven when you simply believe
  • 00:19:12.653 --> 00:19:16.324
  • That jesus died for your sins and rose again.
  • 00:19:16.324 --> 00:19:20.528
  • Jim: dr. evans, i have an idea.
  • 00:19:24.198 --> 00:19:25.566
  • Since you guys are experts, you and scott are experts in jewish
  • 00:19:25.566 --> 00:19:28.636
  • Burial, could we demonstrate this linen cloth and actually
  • 00:19:28.636 --> 00:19:33.974
  • Have--maybe one of our camera guys could lay down on it and
  • 00:19:33.974 --> 00:19:38.212
  • Demonstrate to our audience?
  • 00:19:38.212 --> 00:19:40.414
  • Are you good with that?
  • 00:19:40.414 --> 00:19:41.749
  • Craig: yeah, why not? let's try it.
  • 00:19:41.749 --> 00:19:43.117
  • Jim: let's--here, give me your camera for a second.
  • 00:19:43.117 --> 00:19:45.886
  • So, scott, i'm going to have you pick maybe the one that would be
  • 00:19:45.886 --> 00:19:49.056
  • Around the right height.
  • 00:19:49.056 --> 00:19:50.424
  • So we think around 6 foot.
  • 00:19:50.424 --> 00:19:52.026
  • Scott: it would not be gabe, and plus gabe's too young.
  • 00:19:52.026 --> 00:19:56.430
  • Jim: so, brett, how tall are you?
  • 00:19:56.430 --> 00:19:57.998
  • Brett: 6'1".
  • 00:19:57.998 --> 00:19:59.333
  • Scott: that's about perfect.
  • 00:19:59.333 --> 00:20:00.668
  • Jim: close enough and then how about age?
  • 00:20:00.668 --> 00:20:02.002
  • Scott: early 30s.
  • 00:20:02.002 --> 00:20:04.171
  • Jim: and you are?
  • 00:20:04.171 --> 00:20:05.740
  • Brett: i'm 30.
  • 00:20:05.740 --> 00:20:07.074
  • Scott: that's close.
  • 00:20:07.074 --> 00:20:08.409
  • Jim: and how old are you?
  • 00:20:08.409 --> 00:20:09.744
  • Gabe: twenty-six.
  • 00:20:09.744 --> 00:20:11.245
  • Jim: ooh, it's not gabe, it's not gabe, so it's brett.
  • 00:20:11.245 --> 00:20:12.713
  • Okay, brett, you're the guy.
  • 00:20:12.713 --> 00:20:14.148
  • Scott: so lie down on your back with your feet there.
  • 00:20:14.148 --> 00:20:16.117
  • Your--so your heels are close to the end.
  • 00:20:16.117 --> 00:20:18.085
  • So your head's going to be about right here in the middle.
  • 00:20:18.085 --> 00:20:21.055
  • Hopefully we've got this just right.
  • 00:20:21.055 --> 00:20:22.990
  • That's pretty good.
  • 00:20:22.990 --> 00:20:24.658
  • Jim: and then, scott, one of the scans showed coins
  • 00:20:24.658 --> 00:20:26.594
  • On jesus's eyes, and i don't think jesus wore glasses.
  • 00:20:26.594 --> 00:20:29.263
  • Craig: no, no.
  • 00:20:29.263 --> 00:20:31.065
  • Jim: do you happen to have that right coin?
  • 00:20:31.065 --> 00:20:32.400
  • Scott: just happen to have one in my pocket right here.
  • 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:37.304
  • And this will keep the eyes closed.
  • 00:20:37.304 --> 00:20:38.639
  • The weight of that coin will keep the eyes closed.
  • 00:20:38.639 --> 00:20:41.008
  • That's kind of the purpose of it.
  • 00:20:41.008 --> 00:20:42.343
  • So dr. evans and i will wrap him.
  • 00:20:42.343 --> 00:20:47.481
  • And he had such potential.
  • 00:20:47.481 --> 00:20:48.916
  • Jim: and don't we need to do the resurrection?
  • 00:20:48.916 --> 00:20:52.219
  • Okay, let's try it.
  • 00:20:52.219 --> 00:20:53.587
  • Craig: that's going to be a trick.
  • 00:20:53.587 --> 00:20:54.922
  • Scott: maybe we turn the lights off and back on.
  • 00:20:54.922 --> 00:20:56.357
  • Jim: let's do that.
  • 00:20:56.357 --> 00:20:57.691
  • Scott: okay.
  • 00:20:57.691 --> 00:20:59.059
  • Jim: okay, here we go.
  • 00:20:59.059 --> 00:21:00.394
  • Three, two, one.
  • 00:21:00.394 --> 00:21:01.762
  • Boom, the resurrection.
  • 00:21:01.762 --> 00:21:05.266
  • We know one thing, guys.
  • 00:21:05.266 --> 00:21:07.134
  • Jesus is alive.
  • 00:21:07.134 --> 00:21:08.502
  • Scott: yeah, that's right.
  • 00:21:08.502 --> 00:21:09.837
  • Jim: he changed my life.
  • 00:21:09.837 --> 00:21:11.205
  • He's given me eternity to look forward to with him without the
  • 00:21:11.205 --> 00:21:14.508
  • Curse, without the problems, without the sore back and knee
  • 00:21:14.508 --> 00:21:18.646
  • And everything else that we face; and it's because he took
  • 00:21:18.646 --> 00:21:23.017
  • Our death and he rose again that we have life.
  • 00:21:23.017 --> 00:21:27.154
  • Jim: i would love to send you this video series "the shroud of
  • 00:21:27.221 --> 00:21:30.825
  • Turin: fact or fiction."
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  • Announcer: join us next week for part one of our latest series
  • 00:22:12.466 --> 00:22:15.970
  • "joshua's conquest."
  • 00:22:15.970 --> 00:22:17.805
  • Do the bible and archaeology agree?
  • 00:22:17.805 --> 00:22:20.341
  • Scott: well, here we are, jim.
  • 00:22:20.341 --> 00:22:21.742
  • The battle for the bible begins at jericho.
  • 00:22:21.742 --> 00:22:23.878
  • When you hear people say you can't trust the bible because of
  • 00:22:23.878 --> 00:22:27.047
  • The evidence in the archaeological record, nothing
  • 00:22:27.047 --> 00:22:29.416
  • Could be further from the truth.
  • 00:22:29.416 --> 00:22:31.151
  • Bryant wood: and when we look at those discoveries, how do they
  • 00:22:31.151 --> 00:22:34.788
  • Line up with the bible?
  • 00:22:34.788 --> 00:22:36.690
  • They all agree with the bible.
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