Praise

Allen Jackson: Lead With Faith | Praise

July 6, 2026 | 53:10

Matt and Laurie host Pastor Allen Jackson.

#Author #Faith #Leadership #Culture #Bible #SpiritualGrowth #Challenges #Purpose #KingdomofGod #Ministry #Church #Grace #Healing #Miracles #Supernatural #MattCrouch #LaurieCrouch #AllenJackson

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Praise | Allen Jackson: Lead With Faith | Praise | July 6, 2026

>> tonight on praise.
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>> following the lord doesn't mean we have a life that's free
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Of pain or disappointment or brokenness. we can't get that
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From our bible, right? i mean, pick your hero. start with
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Abraham. i don't pick your hero, joseph. nobody got through
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Without the scars. and the reality is following the lord
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Doesn't remove us from the struggles of life. he puts a
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Purpose in them.
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>> tonight on praise from nashville, senior pastor of
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World outreach church. author and gifted speaker pastor allen
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Jackson. and now your hosts, matt and laurie crouch.
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>> a true visit to nashville cannot be complete without a
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Visit with alan jackson. come on now. there you go. and i've
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Often heard it, said laurie. and i have 1 or 2 friends that
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Have written a book. yeah, 1 or 2. we have, you know, we.
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>> it's only you and me. we're the only ones, the only.
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>> ones that haven't. so i've been told that when you write a
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Book and you put a title on a book, that it's supposed to be
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Warm and fuzzy, and it's supposed to make the person
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Reading the title really want to engage with the book. i want
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To pick that up. i want that for me. and you know what? you
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Did a great job. lead with faith. using your influence for
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God's purposes. we want we all want that. but if you get
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Inside the book, they're a little bit there's, there's a
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There's a little different. caveat spanking starting to
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Kind of show up here. start with however you want to start
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Your book. and then i'm going to flip to the about the middle
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And, and, and make you do some explaining here in a little bit.
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So how do you want to start this?
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>> well, it's good to see you again. i'll start with that.
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>> yeah.
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>> and the titles are always the hardest part with the title
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For the sermon, a title for the book. i always struggle with
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That. but you know, for the i got involved in ministry. i got
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Involved in serving the lord through god's grace. god healed
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My mom. and then god invited me into the ministry. and i knew
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How to love god and love people. but i had no idea about how to
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Lead. i thought leadership was a secular word and i had to
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Repent of. i had to grow past that. and so i spent a long
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Time. i read everything i could get my hands on about
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Leadership. and so now we're a few decades into that, and
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We've talked about leadership in the church. it feels like
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Now ad nauseam, you know, how to lead like jesus. and church
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Leaders have had to learn how to lead, like corporate people
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And all this stuff. but i realized that we had it seemed
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To me at least we had segmented our lives and we had our
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Spiritual conversations. and then we had our discussions
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About influence. and i decided that that wasn't biblical at
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All, that when god and really, i think what pushed it was
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Coming out of covid when i started saying, this isn't
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Science, you know, the science doesn't change at the border of
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Tennessee and california. science is science. people
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Started saying to me, you're being political. and i'm going,
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No, i'm really not. i'm just trying to figure out how to
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Lead this congregation through a confusing time. and i
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Realized that i couldn't just have a bible study and not
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Engage the culture i lived in, that my faith had to have
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Relevance for the 21st century. john the baptist could have
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Been lived to be a much older man if he wouldn't have talked
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About herod's private life.
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>> correct.
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>> he could have talked about moses and abraham and jeremiah.
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He could talk about a lot of things. but when he talked
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About current culture, it cost him. and so i began to think
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About that and pray about that. and i realized that i had to
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Lead with my faith, not just in the church building, but in the
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Community where god planted me. and so i began to take that
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Message. and as a congregation, we had a lot of fun with that
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Because we've always been outreach oriented and directed,
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Focused into the community. and, and so we began to talk about
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What would it look like to the school system is different
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Because there are christians in our community or school boards
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Would be different, or corporate boardrooms would be
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Different. and so that was really the genesis for the book
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That our our faith isn't about a few minutes on a weekend when
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We sit in a particular building, or when we have devotionals
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With our wife or with our children, but that our life is
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Defined first and foremost by that faith relationship.
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>> okay. that was a very good introductory piece. polite. it
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Was very polite.
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>> that was southern soft takeoff.
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>> that was.
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>> just some sweet tea. now.
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>> well, i love what you said. a while ago. you said i'd
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Rather walk into the room and be known as pastor allen than
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Doctor jackson.
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>> well, i had to grow into that because i didn't start
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That way. because when i started at the church, we were
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In a tent in the middle of a wheat field, and i was
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Embarrassed. and i had to grow up into that. and it didn't
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Take a week or a month. it took some time, but there's no
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Setting in the world now where i would i would go into where i
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Wouldn't want to lead with the fact that i'm here on behalf of
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Jesus. not to criticize or.
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>> condemn.
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>> but i'm here in the name of jesus. that's why i'm here.
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>> yeah.
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>> my dad was from missouri and and i still think both of you
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Are beating around the bush a little bit because this is a
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Pretty, you know, get in your face version. it's a very
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Direct version of what this is. and, and if, if i was going to
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If i wound the clock back 30 years and my mom and dad were
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Sitting here, the, the, the thought that lead with faith
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Would be that you would tell the story of the healing. you'd
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Tell the story of the ribbon cutting of a new building. you
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Would tell the story of now raising a child. when you were
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Told by doctors you couldn't have children. faith was this
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Object that you could see that everybody celebrated. okay,
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Right or wrong, that's what faith was in the in the world i
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Grew up in. me too.
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>> right. we have enough parallel in.
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>> all right. so leading, you know, lead with faith was when
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We signed on another tv station. leading with faith. okay. and
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And you know what? i think it's not and or it's both.
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>> absolutely.
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>> you know, and so, but what you're really getting to,
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Especially on page 98, 99 is, is the life of paul who is and
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What i believe you're trying to do. if we can get to the point
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Now and it feels like what you're trying to do is reframe
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What we see as the faith part of our lives. and i think it's
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Super important and look forward to the the more direct
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Version of alan jackson here after the sweet tea is already.
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>> i can get there. i mean, we grew up enough in that spirit
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Filled world and i'm so grateful for that. sure. i mean,
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Some and i'm not trying to diminish that. but at this
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Point in my life, it's much less important to me that you
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Can come to church and give a message in tongues or the
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Interpretation. i want to go interview the people that you
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Work with. and do they know you to be a christ follower, and
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How has your faith shaped that environment where you work?
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Because if you're interpreting a message on sunday that was
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Given in tongues and the people that you work with don't know,
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You could spell jesus, i'm not interested. we have to lead
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With our faith, not segment it into some 90 minute block of
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Our life. and i think we have done the people the disservice
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Because life is difficult. you know, it's a challenge. it's
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It's we talked about paul being in ephesus and it was a slog,
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But life is more than a slog. chuck colson in loving god said,
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You know, life is lived on muddy fields by human beings
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Who get bloody and bruised and struggle for the score until
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Their last gasp of breath. that feels like life to me. and we
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Have to help them understand that jesus goes with you. you
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Know, i don't think david ever imagined that the pathway to
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Being king was goliath. yeah, but he teed it up. i don't
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Imagine that when god recruited moses in exodus three at that
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Burning bush and and he showed him this wonderful staff that
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Would become a stake snake and a staff again, or all the
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Miracles where he gave him his name. my expectation when i get
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Back to egypt, pharaoh is going to say, well, by all means,
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Yeah. and that's not what happened. and i get discouraged
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When i feel like god says to me, go reach your community or go
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Start this new program. and it's hard. and the money's not
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Just sitting there and it's not an absence of faith. i'm moving,
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But it requires me to endure and persevere and overcome. and
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They may have been saying that when i was younger, but i
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Didn't hear it. i heard the victory march.
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>> yeah, i think you're we're going to we're going to make a
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Point. and then we're going to kind of get into. you know,
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Really the life of paul. i mean, you're using a lot of, you know,
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First and second timothy in this. but the the disconnect
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That i think is connecting in our generation is my dad
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Wouldn't have liked the last five minutes of this interview.
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He wouldn't have liked it. he would have. yeah, he lived it,
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But he wouldn't have liked to have had that discussion. i
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Promise you.
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>> but that's.
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>> what he said at the end of his life. this has been a
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Challenge.
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>> it's a challenge.
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>> it you know.
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>> i asked my dad at 75, describe briefly your life. you.
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You've done everything god asked you to do. you put a
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Satellite everywhere. there's electricity in the world, you
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Know, all that kind of stuff. and i said, what defines that?
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And you know what? i was sitting there thinking? i was
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Sitting there thinking he was going to say, feels great, you
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Know, and, and that kind of stuff. and he just kind of
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Challenged, you know, that's. so there he is, 75, 76, 77 year
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Old man having really fulfilled everything god asked him to do.
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And what's the word that pops out of his mouth with his fist
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Shaking challenge? but he wouldn't have liked the last
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Couple of minutes of our conversation because it didn't
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Sound like a victory. if you're if you're dragging through the
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Mud, you didn't pray enough. you didn't is the is the is the
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World that we grew up in. and that's largely we're starting
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To reframe that. and i think it's important.
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>> yeah, i agree completely because your dad lived it out.
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Yeah. i mean, he modeled it for us. i didn't arrive at these
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Ideas in a vacuum. i looked at people that are heroes of mine
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And the things they've done for the lord. we tell the god
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Stories. you know, god healed my mom of cancer when we were
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Pagans. doctors said she had six months to live and she was
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Super mayo clinic. the doctor said, your cancer, you had it,
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But we can't find it. go raise your babies. but a few months
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Later, the tumors came back and the lord said to her, now i
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Want you to learn to live what i did for you. now she lived
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Another 50 years. so god kept his promise. but it doesn't
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Mean it's always simple.
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>> yeah.
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>> and i think we've wanted to have this pristine little
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Prissy.
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>> tiptoe through the tulips kind of existence, you know?
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>> you know, and, i mean, i look at my heroes in the bible,
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Paul, and he said five times they tied me to a post and beat
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Me almost to death. and he didn't go home. you and i would
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Have gone home and thought, boy, i missed god's call. yeah,
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Because i went out on that stinking mission trip and they
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Didn't treat me well. so i'm coming back. i'm going to be an
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Author.
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>> stay in my house.
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>> and paul got back, got another bus ticket and win
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Again.
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>> yeah.
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>> now, he had trouble keeping a team with him, but he kept
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Going back into the arena. and i mean, daniel, i mean any of
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Our heroes, you follow them through the book of revelation
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Is written to overcomers. yeah. every one of those churches,
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The seven churches, to the one who overcomes and overcoming
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Presupposes an obstacle that you're going to have to endure
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And persevere and not a lack of faith. not that you've
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Committed some gross sin, not that you've missed god. not
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That your hard hearted. you are on the path.
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>> yeah.
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>> and we've got to hear that message because what we've said
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Is if we take our faith outside the church and somebody goes,
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Oh, i object, then we thought, well, the lord must not have
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Opened that door yet. the heck with that. i'm going to kick
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The door in.
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>> yeah.
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>> in a god loving jesus honoring.
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>> exactly. so we in in the lead with faith book here in
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The awkward truth about work is one of the titles of the
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Chapter. and your paul offers advice in second timothy
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Timothy four. he was coaching a young man when he said in verse
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Five, but you keep your head in all situations, endure hardship.
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Assuming it was coming right. do the work of an evangelist,
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Discharge all the duties of your ministry. and he you use
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This kind of you know, again, i'm reading you now. again, i
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Don't think we've imagined leading with our faith in this
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Context at all. we've imagined it more of a hobby, something
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That is pleasing, rewarding, relaxing, worth the investment
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Of our discretionary funds, and maybe a little bit of time.
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That's not the language paul uses with timothy. he said,
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Keep your head, endure hardship. do the work, discharge your
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Duty. it's completely different context and totally different
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Kind of description that. what did our predecessors in the
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Faith do with the apostle paul's stories of of hardship,
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When we felt like it was our duty to just show faith as the
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New station coming on the air and not show all the hard work
00:14:47.771 --> 00:14:53.577
Behind the scenes, i don't i'm starting to understand that
00:14:53.577 --> 00:14:57.814
You're reframing something that needed reframing very badly.
00:14:57.814 --> 00:15:02.619
>> well, i think we were afraid people wouldn't follow their.
00:15:02.619 --> 00:15:05.489
It is if we told them the challenge, but i think we were
00:15:05.489 --> 00:15:09.793
Wrong because i think people resonate with the challenge. if
00:15:09.793 --> 00:15:13.397
I gathered a group of young interns at my office today and
00:15:13.397 --> 00:15:16.133
I read them what paul said, one of them would go post online
00:15:16.133 --> 00:15:19.403
That i had a toxic work environment. because we've
00:15:19.403 --> 00:15:24.841
Created orchids, we haven't created. we haven't been
00:15:24.841 --> 00:15:29.947
Raising a generation of warriors. come on. and it's
00:15:29.947 --> 00:15:32.482
Because we haven't been willing to engage the battle.
00:15:32.482 --> 00:15:35.252
>> yeah.
00:15:35.252 --> 00:15:36.453
>> i'm not blaming the younger people. it's what we've modeled
00:15:36.553 --> 00:15:38.655
For them. yeah. and people will follow. people want to know
00:15:38.655 --> 00:15:41.858
It's not easy. but you know, i, i did a whole series on let's
00:15:41.858 --> 00:15:47.731
Do difficult because all the best things in life are on the
00:15:47.731 --> 00:15:51.768
Other side of difficult. a good marriage is not easy. raising
00:15:51.768 --> 00:15:55.105
Good kids is not easy. building a television network, not easy.
00:15:55.105 --> 00:16:00.911
But we can talk about faith. you can't do it without faith,
00:16:00.911 --> 00:16:03.714
Right? but if you tell people it's easy, you're a hypocrite.
00:16:03.714 --> 00:16:07.684
>> yeah.
00:16:07.684 --> 00:16:08.819
>> your dad gave his life to it. he endured all kinds. they
00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.689
Called him everything under the sun and you know it. and he
00:16:12.689 --> 00:16:17.461
Said, i will not stop. and it wasn't an absence of faith. it
00:16:17.461 --> 00:16:22.466
Was a display of faith. and we have got to have the courage to
00:16:22.466 --> 00:16:27.504
Invite the body of christ to be lead with their faith.
00:16:27.504 --> 00:16:31.408
>> i've never thought of this until this second. i think my
00:16:31.408 --> 00:16:36.413
Dad and mom's life, real life. to build this network was shame
00:16:36.413 --> 00:16:44.154
To them because of where they where they came from and. and
00:16:44.154 --> 00:16:50.594
So if they had shown the difficulty and what they had to
00:16:50.594 --> 00:16:55.298
Endure to build the voice that we are using right now, it
00:16:55.298 --> 00:17:00.570
Would have been shameful to them. i think they would have
00:17:00.570 --> 00:17:03.173
Felt that sense, because surely the old timers that came out of
00:17:03.173 --> 00:17:09.946
Azusa street and started the you know, i mean, it just felt
00:17:09.946 --> 00:17:13.483
Like there was something that it was like they would have
00:17:13.483 --> 00:17:18.822
They would have missed a class. and the only reason, alan, that
00:17:18.822 --> 00:17:22.192
My dad allowed us to document the history of tbn in a, in a
00:17:22.192 --> 00:17:27.597
Coffee table book that we've given away on tbn, that we did
00:17:27.597 --> 00:17:31.635
The 40 years and the 50 years. the only reason my dad let that
00:17:31.635 --> 00:17:35.872
Happen is because i told him a story that when you tell
00:17:35.872 --> 00:17:40.210
Stories of how hard it was for you at the time, lori and i had
00:17:40.210 --> 00:17:45.882
A film business and we were living in los angeles. okay,
00:17:45.882 --> 00:17:49.186
Completely independent of tbn. and i was facing hardships. i
00:17:49.186 --> 00:17:54.291
Thought i was wrong. oh god, i thought i was totally missing
00:17:54.291 --> 00:17:59.663
It, you know, because there it is. you know, tbn stands there
00:17:59.663 --> 00:18:06.536
And because they largely hid the struggles from me as a
00:18:06.536 --> 00:18:12.609
Child growing up in the family and didn't want to, let's say,
00:18:12.609 --> 00:18:17.280
Introduce the hardships of what that really was when i faced
00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:21.284
Them in the real world, i thought i was wrong, you know?
00:18:21.284 --> 00:18:25.522
And man, we're fixing some of that today here.
00:18:25.522 --> 00:18:28.592
>> but some of there's a natural, you know, parents
00:18:28.592 --> 00:18:30.827
Don't have need to tell the children how difficult it is to
00:18:30.827 --> 00:18:34.431
Be parents. the kids don't need to know the burden that the
00:18:34.431 --> 00:18:37.834
Parents are having to face to provide food and clothing and
00:18:37.834 --> 00:18:41.371
Shelter. that's a legitimate separation. so i don't
00:18:41.371 --> 00:18:44.641
Disrespect your parents because they didn't dump all the junk.
00:18:44.641 --> 00:18:48.612
>> yeah.
00:18:48.612 --> 00:18:49.746
>> but there does have to be enough integrity amongst us in
00:18:49.846 --> 00:18:51.815
The community of faith to say, you don't do significant things
00:18:51.815 --> 00:18:56.219
Easy. it doesn't happen. yeah. and if it does happen, it's
00:18:56.219 --> 00:19:01.324
Because somebody else sacrificed. if you succeed
00:19:01.324 --> 00:19:04.394
Without sacrifice, somebody sacrificed for you to succeed.
00:19:04.394 --> 00:19:08.031
It just doesn't come easy. jesus went to the cross for.
00:19:08.031 --> 00:19:11.768
>> us, right?
00:19:11.768 --> 00:19:13.003
>> i mean, he bore my pain. he took my shame so that i could
00:19:13.003 --> 00:19:17.007
Have something. but he didn't do that. so i could say, well,
00:19:17.007 --> 00:19:20.844
I'm going to only worship when it's comfortable and convenient.
00:19:20.844 --> 00:19:23.146
>> yeah.
00:19:23.146 --> 00:19:24.314
>> paul said, you better bear hardship like a good soldier.
00:19:24.414 --> 00:19:27.150
The soldier doesn't get involved in civilian affairs.
00:19:27.150 --> 00:19:30.353
When you enlist in the military, you forfeit your personal
00:19:30.353 --> 00:19:33.990
Autonomy. you do what you're told to the point of laying
00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:36.560
Down your life. isn't that biblical? offer yourself as a
00:19:36.560 --> 00:19:40.430
Living sacrifice. we've wanted god to sacrifice for us. i want
00:19:40.430 --> 00:19:45.302
To lead with my faith. when i see the lord and he extends to
00:19:45.302 --> 00:19:48.972
Me a hand with a nail print in it, i intend to at least have a
00:19:48.972 --> 00:19:52.976
Callous. now i'm not going to work my way to heaven. earn my
00:19:52.976 --> 00:19:56.046
Way to heaven, but i'm going to give him my best.
00:19:56.046 --> 00:19:59.583
>> yeah.
00:19:59.583 --> 00:20:00.750
>> you didn't say this, but we would deduce by what you just
00:20:00.850 --> 00:20:04.020
Said, that the military understands the kingdom more
00:20:04.020 --> 00:20:06.823
Than the church.
00:20:06.823 --> 00:20:08.191
>> i think they understand authority more. you see, i
00:20:08.191 --> 00:20:11.895
Think we've wanted to understand authority in terms
00:20:11.895 --> 00:20:13.964
Of blessings, that we can reign with him, you know, as he is.
00:20:13.964 --> 00:20:17.934
So are we. and there's there's truths in all those principles,
00:20:17.934 --> 00:20:22.572
But it's not the whole truth. and in order to get the to have
00:20:22.572 --> 00:20:28.311
Authority, you have to accept responsibility. if you have
00:20:28.311 --> 00:20:31.948
Authority and you don't accept responsibility, it's
00:20:31.948 --> 00:20:34.084
Illegitimate. if a police officer has the ability to
00:20:34.084 --> 00:20:36.553
Direct traffic and he's causing wrecks, it's illegitimate. well,
00:20:36.553 --> 00:20:40.523
We've focused on our authority, but we haven't wanted to talk
00:20:40.523 --> 00:20:43.860
About our responsibility to be salt and light. our lifetime
00:20:43.860 --> 00:20:47.030
Corresponds with one of the most precipitous declines of
00:20:47.030 --> 00:20:49.899
Christian influence in the history of the church. i don't
00:20:49.899 --> 00:20:53.103
Intend to go out on that note. that's why i love tbn, and i
00:20:53.103 --> 00:20:57.140
Love the two of you, because when you could go sit on a
00:20:57.140 --> 00:21:00.010
Beach, you have kept engaging and kept looking about how you
00:21:00.010 --> 00:21:02.979
Could expand your influence and how you could make an impact.
00:21:02.979 --> 00:21:05.849
We've talked about it. that's why i'm honored to stand next
00:21:05.849 --> 00:21:08.852
To you.
00:21:08.852 --> 00:21:10.053
>> i remember the day that that i realized i didn't know what
00:21:10.153 --> 00:21:17.627
Faith was, and i grew up in it. and, you know, to us, it was
00:21:17.627 --> 00:21:23.733
Just taking a big step of faith. it cost you everything. right?
00:21:23.733 --> 00:21:29.139
And then of course, god's going to.
00:21:29.139 --> 00:21:30.940
>> meet you.
00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:31.675
>> there.
00:21:31.675 --> 00:21:32.809
>> meet you there. and yes, absolutely have that building.
00:21:32.909 --> 00:21:34.978
>> jump out of a plane and google parachute.
00:21:34.978 --> 00:21:37.580
>> that's faith.
00:21:37.580 --> 00:21:38.748
>> exactly. and i remember that i was rocked inside because,
00:21:38.848 --> 00:21:42.952
Man, i just didn't know. i thought, man, and i sat on my
00:21:42.952 --> 00:21:47.090
Piano and i just said, god, if that was, was, wasn't faith. i
00:21:47.090 --> 00:21:51.161
Don't even know what it was. you have to help me because i'm
00:21:51.161 --> 00:21:56.499
Gutted right now, because we've just put everything that we
00:21:56.499 --> 00:22:00.804
Have into serving you and going forward and everything that i
00:22:00.804 --> 00:22:05.842
Believe. right. and, and i just started singing this song
00:22:05.842 --> 00:22:10.914
Saying, if you only knew the plans i have for you, god has
00:22:10.914 --> 00:22:14.484
So much greater than we could possibly imagine. but being
00:22:14.484 --> 00:22:23.827
Rocked to my core and then living.
00:22:23.827 --> 00:22:26.763
>> at what we perceived at the time was a disappointment. and
00:22:26.763 --> 00:22:29.733
We were trying to buy a building, lost some hard money
00:22:29.733 --> 00:22:32.135
And you know, that kind of stuff.
00:22:32.135 --> 00:22:34.003
>> but living.
00:22:34.003 --> 00:22:36.139
>> the life of faith is a walk. you walk it every single day to
00:22:36.139 --> 00:22:39.409
Even please god. but god sees. so the whole point is, we think
00:22:39.409 --> 00:22:44.414
That you take one great step of faith and then everything is
00:22:44.414 --> 00:22:48.752
Wonderful. it's not. it's. and i would always say, why does
00:22:48.752 --> 00:22:52.322
God always make us give everything? we were we we never
00:22:52.322 --> 00:22:58.461
Had anything for more than 24 hours. if we got a movie going.
00:22:58.461 --> 00:23:03.500
>> and we.
00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:04.734
>> got it and we got a payment. might go out to the next movie.
00:23:04.834 --> 00:23:07.437
And it.
00:23:07.437 --> 00:23:08.238
>> was it was.
00:23:08.238 --> 00:23:09.272
>> a revolving door.
00:23:09.272 --> 00:23:10.273
>> the next day.
00:23:10.273 --> 00:23:11.508
>> of everything to something more that god that we felt god
00:23:11.508 --> 00:23:15.779
Had. and, and, and to this day, it's like, why does god require
00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:21.184
Everything? but that's why paul can say, count it all joy when
00:23:21.184 --> 00:23:27.557
You walk through these trials and these tribulations with
00:23:27.557 --> 00:23:32.695
Perseverance, knowing that i am going to stay faithful to god,
00:23:32.695 --> 00:23:35.698
He owns it all anyway. so there's nothing lost in the
00:23:35.698 --> 00:23:38.802
Kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of god or in my life.
00:23:38.802 --> 00:23:42.071
I'm just gaining, lacking nothing from god. i have a
00:23:42.071 --> 00:23:48.178
Peace that passes all understanding. i have a joy
00:23:48.178 --> 00:23:52.515
Unspeakable in it all. doesn't make sense and we can get
00:23:52.515 --> 00:23:57.454
Ridiculed by someone, said said on social media today i was
00:23:57.454 --> 00:24:02.826
Talking about when you walk through these dark, suffering
00:24:02.826 --> 00:24:10.133
Times, god has you covered. god is walking with you. and
00:24:10.133 --> 00:24:15.538
Somebody said she's never had a suffering day in her life. well,
00:24:15.538 --> 00:24:19.409
Yes, i have. i just have learned to deal with it. i have
00:24:19.409 --> 00:24:23.746
A an inner and i'm sorry for your loss in everything, but
00:24:23.746 --> 00:24:28.785
There is just a way that that i have learned through walking it
00:24:28.785 --> 00:24:34.924
That god puts something on the inside of you that gives you
00:24:34.924 --> 00:24:39.729
The grace, gives you the peace, gives you the hope, gives you
00:24:39.729 --> 00:24:45.368
Everything that you need to, to tarry, to keep going to. and
00:24:45.368 --> 00:24:51.107
That's how you grow in faith. that's how the fruit of the
00:24:51.107 --> 00:24:54.978
Spirit comes out of you. and you just learn that god is in
00:24:54.978 --> 00:25:00.416
Control and you're just not shaken by it. just every single
00:25:00.416 --> 00:25:04.621
Thing that comes your way.
00:25:04.621 --> 00:25:08.391
>> it's a reframing of how we think of our faith.
00:25:08.391 --> 00:25:10.927
>> yeah.
00:25:10.927 --> 00:25:12.061
>> i, i read where thomas edison said when he finally got
00:25:12.161 --> 00:25:15.498
In the light bulb to work, he'd failed 900 times. and they said,
00:25:15.498 --> 00:25:19.235
Didn't you get discouraged? and he said, no, there was just 900
00:25:19.235 --> 00:25:21.804
Steps in developing a light bulb. and i think we've missed
00:25:21.804 --> 00:25:24.807
The notion following the lord doesn't mean we have a life
00:25:24.807 --> 00:25:28.578
That's free of pain.
00:25:28.578 --> 00:25:29.612
>> right.
00:25:29.612 --> 00:25:30.747
>> or disappointment or brokenness. we can't get that
00:25:30.747 --> 00:25:32.916
From our bible, right? i mean, pick your hero. start with
00:25:32.916 --> 00:25:36.486
Abraham. i don't pick your hero. joseph, moses, joshua. i mean,
00:25:36.486 --> 00:25:41.958
Get to the new testament. i mean, nobody got through
00:25:41.958 --> 00:25:45.194
Without the scars, but we wanted to frame our faith is
00:25:45.194 --> 00:25:47.764
That if you're a good christian, it's like a skip on the yellow
00:25:47.764 --> 00:25:50.833
Brick road. yeah. and so what's unfortunate with that is then
00:25:50.833 --> 00:25:54.203
We live with this constant frustration because i don't
00:25:54.203 --> 00:25:57.540
Feel like i'm on the yellow brick road. i got a rebellious
00:25:57.540 --> 00:26:00.944
Kid or i, you know, whatever is happening in your life. and the
00:26:00.944 --> 00:26:05.982
Reality is following the lord doesn't remove us from the
00:26:05.982 --> 00:26:08.151
Struggles of life. it puts a purpose.
00:26:08.151 --> 00:26:11.287
>> in them. yes.
00:26:11.287 --> 00:26:12.455
>> it brings a meaning to it.
00:26:12.455 --> 00:26:13.790
>> yeah.
00:26:13.790 --> 00:26:15.024
>> you know, leading a ministry, building a network, not simple.
00:26:15.124 --> 00:26:18.795
If you do it in a secular way, it's not simple either, but
00:26:18.795 --> 00:26:21.864
You're just doing it to stack cash. your dad did it to make
00:26:21.864 --> 00:26:24.934
An eternal impact.
00:26:24.934 --> 00:26:26.035
>> yeah.
00:26:26.035 --> 00:26:27.203
>> completely different scenario. yeah. so i want to
00:26:27.203 --> 00:26:29.305
Say to people, lead with your faith. yeah, go be a butcher, a
00:26:29.305 --> 00:26:32.675
Baker or a candlestick maker, but lead with jesus. and then
00:26:32.675 --> 00:26:36.946
There's a meaning and a purpose. you're going to have hardship.
00:26:36.946 --> 00:26:40.483
Yeah. it's coming. you're going to have to endure. you're going
00:26:40.483 --> 00:26:43.319
To have to persevere. but if you will lead with your faith,
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:47.957
There's this triumphant overlay.
00:26:47.957 --> 00:26:50.960
>> yes.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:52.128
>> that, you know, you can put me in the middle of the prison
00:26:52.228 --> 00:26:54.964
In the middle of the night. silas and i were going to be
00:26:54.964 --> 00:26:58.034
Singing some hymns.
00:26:58.034 --> 00:26:58.968
>> yeah.
00:26:58.968 --> 00:27:00.203
>> and if the lord comes to get us, great. if he doesn't, we'll
00:27:00.303 --> 00:27:02.972
Go see him.
00:27:02.972 --> 00:27:03.306
>> yeah.
00:27:03.306 --> 00:27:04.474
>> you know, i'm good. and and that doesn't mean it's always
00:27:04.574 --> 00:27:07.076
Easy. and but because we've had it framed wrong, we haven't
00:27:07.076 --> 00:27:09.946
Lived with the courage we could have.
00:27:09.946 --> 00:27:11.314
>> yeah.
00:27:11.314 --> 00:27:12.415
>> and i'm like, well, i see something difficult. and i'm
00:27:12.515 --> 00:27:14.951
Like, lord, if you want me to do that, let's go.
00:27:14.951 --> 00:27:17.220
>> yeah.
00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:18.054
>> let's go.
00:27:18.054 --> 00:27:19.188
>> that's new though. that's new mindset that there is
00:27:19.188 --> 00:27:23.292
Somebody out front saying, come on, but it's going to be
00:27:23.292 --> 00:27:27.563
Difficult. but come on. anyway.
00:27:27.563 --> 00:27:29.032
>> it's worthwhile.
00:27:29.032 --> 00:27:30.500
>> and that's, that's new. that's what you're starting
00:27:30.500 --> 00:27:33.102
With. lead with faith are the big words. that's the
00:27:33.102 --> 00:27:37.707
Comforting words. then you get down to the smaller ones using
00:27:37.707 --> 00:27:41.277
Your influence for god's purposes. when you get inside,
00:27:41.277 --> 00:27:45.281
You're using largely a lot of paul and you know, you say it
00:27:45.281 --> 00:27:50.520
This way when you read through first and second corinthians,
00:27:50.520 --> 00:27:55.658
It's clear that the corinthian church was a mess. they were
00:27:55.658 --> 00:28:00.363
Immoral, ungodly, gluttonous, carnal, selfish, indulgent, and
00:28:00.363 --> 00:28:04.367
Almost almost every way you can imagine. and yet we see paul
00:28:04.367 --> 00:28:08.571
Engage them. so in first corinthians 15, it says, and
00:28:08.571 --> 00:28:13.342
For us, why do we endanger ourselves? every hour? i face
00:28:13.342 --> 00:28:20.450
Death every day. yes, just as surely as i boast about you in
00:28:20.450 --> 00:28:25.888
Christ jesus our lord. if i fought wild beasts in ephesus,
00:28:25.888 --> 00:28:31.994
And are we talking wild beasts or just the religious rulers of
00:28:31.994 --> 00:28:36.733
The day, do you think?
00:28:36.733 --> 00:28:39.569
>> well, i think he faced angry mobs.
00:28:39.569 --> 00:28:42.872
>> yeah.
00:28:42.872 --> 00:28:43.906
>> but i think the angry mobs were the result of the
00:28:44.006 --> 00:28:46.042
Spiritual forces of darkness that he challenged. the riots
00:28:46.042 --> 00:28:49.712
Were irrational and illogical. i think the fuel for them were
00:28:49.712 --> 00:28:53.182
The demons that he had disrupted.
00:28:53.182 --> 00:28:55.184
>> you don't think they were rabid badgers, that he was
00:28:55.184 --> 00:28:58.354
Actually fighting little, little animals and beating them?
00:28:58.354 --> 00:29:01.691
You think.
00:29:01.691 --> 00:29:02.391
>> paul would have done that too?
00:29:02.492 --> 00:29:03.860
>> i'm pretty.
00:29:03.860 --> 00:29:04.694
>> there wasn't much backup.
00:29:04.694 --> 00:29:05.795
>> in paul.
00:29:05.795 --> 00:29:07.296
>> and if i fought wild beasts in ephesus with no more than
00:29:07.296 --> 00:29:13.402
Human hopes, what have i gained if the dead are not raised?
00:29:13.402 --> 00:29:20.643
Quote. let us eat. drink for tomorrow we die. what's paul
00:29:20.643 --> 00:29:24.914
Saying to us there?
00:29:24.914 --> 00:29:27.150
>> well, what are you saying to me is i have to frame my life
00:29:27.150 --> 00:29:32.221
In the context of beyond comfort and convenience, that
00:29:32.221 --> 00:29:37.193
There is something worth sacrificing for.
00:29:37.193 --> 00:29:39.362
>> which is what we grew up in.
00:29:39.362 --> 00:29:41.230
>> absolutely.
00:29:41.230 --> 00:29:42.331
>> okay, so we grew up in framing our life of faith and
00:29:42.431 --> 00:29:45.101
Comfort and convenience and air conditioning buildings.
00:29:45.101 --> 00:29:47.637
>> and if you're a person of faith, you'll have this kind of
00:29:47.637 --> 00:29:50.940
This crescendo roll of successes. and if you don't
00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:55.178
Have that, well, what's wrong with you?
00:29:55.178 --> 00:29:57.046
>> yeah.
00:29:57.046 --> 00:29:58.181
>> and i don't think it's biblical. i don't think it's
00:29:58.181 --> 00:30:00.983
The whole biblical narrative.
00:30:00.983 --> 00:30:02.084
>> there it is.
00:30:02.084 --> 00:30:03.352
>> i think it's a part of the narrative. god delivered daniel
00:30:03.352 --> 00:30:07.123
From the lion's den. but see, i thought if i had enough faith,
00:30:07.123 --> 00:30:11.394
I wouldn't have to go to the lion's den.
00:30:11.394 --> 00:30:13.563
>> there you go.
00:30:13.563 --> 00:30:14.397
>> exactly.
00:30:14.397 --> 00:30:15.264
>> and i'm like, but the bible.
00:30:15.264 --> 00:30:16.532
>> doesn't say in the.
00:30:16.532 --> 00:30:18.267
>> fire.
00:30:18.267 --> 00:30:19.335
>> you know, shadrach, meshach, and abednego, they got
00:30:19.435 --> 00:30:20.703
Delivered from the furnace, but. they had to go in to stand up
00:30:20.703 --> 00:30:24.240
There and say, i'm not going to bow.
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.275
>> yeah.
00:30:26.275 --> 00:30:27.310
>> and we've raised a generation of people going, i
00:30:27.410 --> 00:30:29.245
Have so much faith.
00:30:29.245 --> 00:30:30.246
>> yeah.
00:30:30.246 --> 00:30:31.347
>> i'm just going to bow because i believe in grace. and
00:30:31.447 --> 00:30:33.449
I'm like, you better get your butt up.
00:30:33.449 --> 00:30:35.484
>> yeah.
00:30:35.484 --> 00:30:36.652
>> we got to have some people willing to walk into the fire.
00:30:36.752 --> 00:30:39.355
>> yeah.
00:30:39.355 --> 00:30:39.956
>> and testify about it.
00:30:39.956 --> 00:30:41.257
>> yes.
00:30:41.257 --> 00:30:42.458
>> all right. you say, when i read that passage recently, the
00:30:42.558 --> 00:30:44.493
Phrase that captured my attention was, if i fought wild
00:30:44.493 --> 00:30:47.263
Beasts in ephesus. paul taught in ephesus for two years. while
00:30:47.263 --> 00:30:52.201
He was there, the those in authority became angry with him
00:30:52.201 --> 00:30:56.105
And he was put out the synagogue. they didn't like the
00:30:56.105 --> 00:30:59.342
Message, so they rejected him. yet he persisted. paul
00:30:59.342 --> 00:31:04.347
Continued to teach the word of god, and we benefit from his
00:31:04.347 --> 00:31:09.051
Diligence today. you go on later to explain that in one
00:31:09.051 --> 00:31:14.790
Day, you know, today's value, $5 million in today's money
00:31:14.790 --> 00:31:21.597
Worth of evil paraphernalia was burned. that finally sounds
00:31:21.597 --> 00:31:26.302
Like the revival. and that sounds like what we would have
00:31:26.302 --> 00:31:30.640
Then posted. and paul was there for two years slogging it out.
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:37.446
And i missed that class in sunday school. growing up, i
00:31:37.446 --> 00:31:41.751
Didn't get, i didn't get, i did hear about the the great
00:31:41.751 --> 00:31:46.489
Post-it moment of burning the paraphernalia, but i, you know,
00:31:46.489 --> 00:31:50.059
I, it would have been glossed over that he was there slogging
00:31:50.059 --> 00:31:53.162
It out for two.
00:31:53.162 --> 00:31:54.063
>> years.
00:31:54.063 --> 00:31:55.231
>> but i think we heard it. i think there's a maturity, you
00:31:55.331 --> 00:31:57.333
Know, it takes the holy spirit to help us receive in the time
00:31:57.333 --> 00:32:02.238
That whole times and seasons thing that oral used to talk
00:32:02.238 --> 00:32:04.573
About seed time and harvest. lester summerall, i know you
00:32:04.573 --> 00:32:08.044
Knew him and his whole story about the girl that was in
00:32:08.044 --> 00:32:11.681
Bilibid prison and bitten by demons. but lester had been in
00:32:11.681 --> 00:32:15.551
Manila for two years with no fruit to his ministry.
00:32:15.551 --> 00:32:19.488
>> yeah.
00:32:19.488 --> 00:32:20.589
>> a missionary on a foreign field, and nobody cared.
00:32:20.589 --> 00:32:23.159
>> yeah.
00:32:23.159 --> 00:32:24.360
>> and he heard that story on the radio, and god said, you go
00:32:24.460 --> 00:32:26.929
Pray for that.
00:32:26.929 --> 00:32:27.897
>> girl who.
00:32:27.897 --> 00:32:28.831
>> hey.
00:32:28.831 --> 00:32:29.999
>> and i mean, did it bring something? yes, but there was a
00:32:30.099 --> 00:32:33.202
Lot of hard work and a lot of sacrifice and a lot of enduring.
00:32:33.202 --> 00:32:37.206
And when i was young, i didn't hear that.
00:32:37.206 --> 00:32:39.542
>> yeah.
00:32:39.542 --> 00:32:40.676
>> i just heard that he cast a demon out of a girl that was
00:32:40.776 --> 00:32:43.612
Bitten by demons.
00:32:43.612 --> 00:32:44.513
>> and. hey.
00:32:44.513 --> 00:32:45.715
>> oh, here we go. because, i mean, you know, lester. i mean,
00:32:45.815 --> 00:32:48.517
There was no backup in him.
00:32:48.517 --> 00:32:49.685
>> yeah.
00:32:49.685 --> 00:32:50.519
>> but i didn't hear the other part.
00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:52.521
>> yeah.
00:32:52.521 --> 00:32:53.723
>> and i think that message has got to be brought back out of
00:32:53.823 --> 00:32:56.525
The into the to the light again, because there's a battle in the
00:32:56.525 --> 00:32:59.628
Earth. you know, there sex is not confusing. and yet we're
00:32:59.628 --> 00:33:04.467
Trying to act like it is and all the things. and we got to
00:33:04.467 --> 00:33:08.204
Engage our culture. we got to lead with our faith.
00:33:08.204 --> 00:33:10.840
>> there has just been things that we have even done that i
00:33:10.840 --> 00:33:18.581
Would not change for anything.
00:33:18.581 --> 00:33:21.217
>> even though.
00:33:21.217 --> 00:33:22.051
>> they were hard.
00:33:22.051 --> 00:33:23.285
>> even though it looks like maybe it failed or it it didn't
00:33:23.285 --> 00:33:27.590
Work out the way i thought, but i would never change it because
00:33:27.590 --> 00:33:33.295
I knew we were supposed to do it. i knew we were walking in
00:33:33.295 --> 00:33:36.699
Faith. i knew that if we didn't do that, that that might be the.
00:33:36.699 --> 00:33:41.737
I felt so strong about something that we did a couple
00:33:41.737 --> 00:33:44.974
Of years ago, and i was scared, scared spitless to do it. but i
00:33:44.974 --> 00:33:50.246
Said, i feel like if we don't say yes to this, no matter what
00:33:50.246 --> 00:33:55.651
It looks like to everybody else, god will never ask us to do
00:33:55.651 --> 00:33:58.888
Another thing because he can't. he can't trust me with this.
00:33:58.888 --> 00:34:03.692
But i know that this is a huge step. and to do big things and
00:34:03.692 --> 00:34:08.297
To, to just.
00:34:08.297 --> 00:34:10.433
>> future stuff.
00:34:10.433 --> 00:34:11.634
>> future stuff, we have to make big moves right now, you
00:34:11.634 --> 00:34:14.804
Know? and it looked like it just went to pieces. but man,
00:34:14.804 --> 00:34:18.874
You can't beat that out of me that we did the right thing.
00:34:18.874 --> 00:34:22.545
And i know that there is going to be something because of that
00:34:22.545 --> 00:34:28.751
Perseverance and that tenacity to grab something and say, i am
00:34:28.751 --> 00:34:34.223
Doing this because i feel god has called us to this.
00:34:34.223 --> 00:34:36.725
>> let me jump in and reframe just for a moment. i want to
00:34:36.725 --> 00:34:40.529
Just say that. thank you, pastor. you know, because
00:34:40.529 --> 00:34:42.865
You're kind of telling the, the whole story of something that
00:34:42.865 --> 00:34:47.470
If there would have been somebody that would have tuned
00:34:47.470 --> 00:34:51.073
In ten minutes ago, they would have gone. now wait a second.
00:34:51.073 --> 00:34:56.846
What's matt and laurie and pastor allen talking about here?
00:34:56.846 --> 00:35:00.082
Where are they coming from? give about, you know, a couple
00:35:00.082 --> 00:35:04.787
Of minute version of what you're saying in this new book
00:35:04.787 --> 00:35:09.792
To kind of bring people back up to speed with what you're
00:35:09.792 --> 00:35:14.830
Really doing in case somebody is tuned in, because we're
00:35:14.830 --> 00:35:17.733
Talking about some somewhat, you know, slogging it out, you
00:35:17.733 --> 00:35:23.472
Know, tough stuff.
00:35:23.472 --> 00:35:26.742
>> well, i hope we're talking about the best part of the
00:35:26.742 --> 00:35:29.745
Journey.
00:35:29.745 --> 00:35:30.079
>> okay.
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:31.280
>> but i think we presented our faith for too long in terms of
00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:33.816
Conversion. and then we argue about how the world's going to
00:35:33.816 --> 00:35:36.719
End, and we're waiting to hear the trumpet. and the joy of
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.722
Life is between those two things. we get one trip under
00:35:39.722 --> 00:35:43.025
The sun, only one. there's no do overs, and you only get one
00:35:43.025 --> 00:35:47.997
Opportunity to lead every season of your life to honor
00:35:47.997 --> 00:35:49.798
The lord. and it's not always going to be easy. and dolores,
00:35:49.798 --> 00:35:54.436
Comment about, you know, you god put sometimes these
00:35:54.436 --> 00:35:57.006
Invitations in front of you, and sometimes you do those
00:35:57.006 --> 00:35:59.909
Things that are very much in public. and there's always an
00:35:59.909 --> 00:36:05.948
Innumerable company of people that will sit in the shadows
00:36:05.948 --> 00:36:09.518
With the complaint how they would do it. i go home and sit
00:36:09.518 --> 00:36:13.889
In my overstuffed chair and watch a ball game and call the
00:36:13.889 --> 00:36:16.926
Athletes lazy while i eat cheese doodles and drink.
00:36:16.926 --> 00:36:19.094
>> doctor pepper. you too.
00:36:19.094 --> 00:36:21.130
>> and there's always that group of people, right? but i
00:36:21.130 --> 00:36:24.066
Would rather be the one engaged.
00:36:24.066 --> 00:36:26.101
>> yeah.
00:36:26.101 --> 00:36:27.269
>> than the one sitting in the shadows chirping. and so what
00:36:27.369 --> 00:36:29.805
I'm really inviting people to do is say, listen, our lives
00:36:29.805 --> 00:36:32.541
Are not perfect. our homes aren't perfect, our stories
00:36:32.541 --> 00:36:35.611
Aren't perfect. but let's invite jesus into the middle of.
00:36:35.611 --> 00:36:38.714
That and take it one day at a time, one step at a time, one
00:36:38.714 --> 00:36:42.685
Moment at a time, and watch him bring victory to us.
00:36:42.685 --> 00:36:46.689
>> you're you're always very kind. and you're, you're you're
00:36:46.689 --> 00:36:51.327
Being a southern gentleman. but how did we grow up in a system
00:36:51.327 --> 00:36:58.534
That if if the people that taught my sunday school class
00:36:58.534 --> 00:37:04.273
And or church classes had ever studied the life of paul, we
00:37:04.273 --> 00:37:10.412
Would have largely thought he didn't understand something
00:37:10.412 --> 00:37:16.952
That we did that maybe we in hindsight, you know, that he
00:37:16.952 --> 00:37:20.623
Just he didn't have something we did. is that the only way
00:37:20.623 --> 00:37:24.426
That we could have gotten to a kind of a theology that we grew
00:37:24.426 --> 00:37:28.097
Up in that this kind of tiptoe through the tulips kind of
00:37:28.097 --> 00:37:32.368
World that we were supposed to be able to live out.
00:37:32.368 --> 00:37:35.671
>> well, i think there's layers to it. i think we were immature
00:37:35.671 --> 00:37:38.874
Because that's a that's a immature response. and then i
00:37:38.874 --> 00:37:42.444
Think there were people that had positions that should have
00:37:42.444 --> 00:37:45.347
Understood that were deceptive and manipulative. i'm not ready
00:37:45.347 --> 00:37:50.219
To choose names, but but i went to oru, i was at oru when oral
00:37:50.219 --> 00:37:54.423
Was still engaged and i wasn't always the best. you know,
00:37:54.423 --> 00:37:58.727
They'd try to get all the students out there to take
00:37:58.727 --> 00:38:00.963
Pictures for stuff. and 75% of the cost of our education. he
00:38:00.963 --> 00:38:04.166
Raised by asking people for money. when i was a college kid,
00:38:04.166 --> 00:38:07.136
I didn't know how hard that was. years later, when i got married,
00:38:07.136 --> 00:38:11.106
I wouldn't take cathy, my wife, to go see oru, and when i
00:38:11.106 --> 00:38:14.043
Walked onto campus, i started to weep. i was broken because i
00:38:14.043 --> 00:38:19.315
Was a pain in oral's butt. and i didn't have the humility to
00:38:19.315 --> 00:38:23.952
Understand the sacrifice he was making so i could get a good
00:38:23.952 --> 00:38:27.489
Education. my goodness, i wasn't. i was just too immature.
00:38:27.489 --> 00:38:32.127
But after i had had an opportunity to serve the body
00:38:32.127 --> 00:38:34.430
Of christ for a while and bear some of that, i don't even
00:38:34.430 --> 00:38:39.668
Expect the people that i lead today to all understand what
00:38:39.668 --> 00:38:42.571
That means, but i'm going to go do that. and i think that's
00:38:42.571 --> 00:38:47.242
What the two of you have done, and i'm most grateful for that.
00:38:47.242 --> 00:38:51.580
Yeah, there's always critics. they they crucified our boss.
00:38:51.580 --> 00:38:56.251
>> yeah.
00:38:56.251 --> 00:38:57.453
>> you know, there's always critics, but we want to lead.
00:38:57.453 --> 00:39:02.424
We want to get our faith out of the closet. and so i'm not even
00:39:02.424 --> 00:39:06.328
Trying to, to relitigate how we grew up. i'm just saying it
00:39:06.328 --> 00:39:09.465
Took me a while to catch on.
00:39:09.465 --> 00:39:10.766
>> yeah.
00:39:10.766 --> 00:39:11.934
>> it just took me a while to catch on because i, i got
00:39:11.934 --> 00:39:14.636
Caught in all of that too, and rolled along with that. but i
00:39:14.636 --> 00:39:18.474
Got to the place that i thought, wait a minute, when i'm reading
00:39:18.474 --> 00:39:21.577
My bible, what i'm reading is not what i had heard. and now
00:39:21.577 --> 00:39:26.849
I'm grappling to bring alignment with that because i
00:39:26.849 --> 00:39:30.119
Want to live like my bible invites me to live and i. i
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:34.790
Think it's the most grand adventure of my life.
00:39:34.790 --> 00:39:38.060
>> yeah.
00:39:38.060 --> 00:39:39.161
>> you know, and so i participated in a wedding last
00:39:39.161 --> 00:39:41.964
Week. but marriage is not a wedding. a wedding is a party
00:39:41.964 --> 00:39:46.335
With cake. and your friends and a dj and all the stuff. but a
00:39:46.335 --> 00:39:52.341
Marriage is a messy rascal and so is our faith. but it's also
00:39:52.341 --> 00:39:58.914
Wonderful.
00:39:58.914 --> 00:39:59.248
>> yeah.
00:39:59.248 --> 00:40:00.449
>> you wouldn't not get married because it's messy, but we do
00:40:00.549 --> 00:40:03.552
Our kids a disfavor. if we tell them that their marriage is
00:40:03.552 --> 00:40:06.688
Going to be like a wedding.
00:40:06.688 --> 00:40:08.924
>> i told my dad when we were doing this, this coffee table
00:40:08.924 --> 00:40:13.328
Book that i mentioned, the 50 year kind of 50 where now 54
00:40:13.328 --> 00:40:18.634
Years here at tbn on the air, 24 hours a day. and, and i said,
00:40:18.634 --> 00:40:23.005
I said, dad, if you'll tell the, the good, bad and the ugly. and
00:40:23.005 --> 00:40:28.043
Largely he does do that in, in some of these stories. then i
00:40:28.043 --> 00:40:34.183
Said, because that encourages the next generation that when
00:40:34.183 --> 00:40:38.220
We face a trial, somebody has gone before us. now, you know,
00:40:38.220 --> 00:40:43.992
Look, that may have been the way the church was operating
00:40:43.992 --> 00:40:47.830
For 1600 years. it could have been doing that just right. but
00:40:47.830 --> 00:40:52.768
There was a dip in that storyline. and it happened when
00:40:52.768 --> 00:40:56.805
We were young for sure. that prayer and maybe fasting and
00:40:56.805 --> 00:41:05.113
Prayer and using your faith correctly exempted you from
00:41:05.113 --> 00:41:12.287
That. and you get our age with my color of hair. what? yours
00:41:12.287 --> 00:41:18.861
Is beautiful. by the way, i, i need to talk to you about the
00:41:18.861 --> 00:41:22.431
Color that you have in your hair later, sweetie. is it is
00:41:22.431 --> 00:41:26.602
It sweet tea? got it. but we ended up getting our age and
00:41:26.602 --> 00:41:32.875
Realizing the best thing we could do is to come clean with
00:41:32.875 --> 00:41:37.212
The full story and get this show on the road where everyone
00:41:37.212 --> 00:41:43.619
Is feeling like maybe their life is, is really, you know,
00:41:43.619 --> 00:41:48.657
Kind of almost shadowing the way that the stories in the
00:41:48.657 --> 00:41:52.995
Bible are, especially the apostle paul.
00:41:52.995 --> 00:41:54.897
>> what a thought.
00:41:54.897 --> 00:41:57.165
>> we would live like the bible. this is really radical stuff.
00:41:55.898 --> 00:42:00.168
>> walking on water, baby.
00:42:00.168 --> 00:42:03.005
>> it's it's the whole story though. for some reason, we
00:42:03.005 --> 00:42:05.674
Just, we just grew up in a, in an odd season that the whole
00:42:05.674 --> 00:42:09.545
Story wasn't really being shared.
00:42:09.545 --> 00:42:12.748
>> or i didn't hear it. i'm not even saying they didn't tell it.
00:42:12.748 --> 00:42:15.918
I didn't hear it. and i'm so grateful god opened my heart to
00:42:15.918 --> 00:42:20.022
See like the rest of the story because there's, there's joy in
00:42:20.022 --> 00:42:23.725
It.
00:42:23.725 --> 00:42:24.293
>> yeah.
00:42:24.293 --> 00:42:25.527
>> okay. explain that because that's hard to unpack. there's
00:42:25.527 --> 00:42:28.664
Joy in it.
00:42:28.664 --> 00:42:29.898
>> well, i've served the same congregation for decades, and
00:42:29.898 --> 00:42:33.368
When i started, you know, we had a tent and it hasn't been
00:42:33.368 --> 00:42:39.408
Easy. there have been challenges all along the way.
00:42:39.408 --> 00:42:43.045
But from where i sit today, it's been the greatest honor of
00:42:43.045 --> 00:42:46.715
My life. and i feel sorry for people. i meet some people and,
00:42:46.715 --> 00:42:50.852
You know, they they plant a church. and in 90 days it goes
00:42:50.852 --> 00:42:54.556
To umpteen thousand people. and i'm like, i don't know how to
00:42:54.556 --> 00:42:57.960
Do that. you know, i don't know how to do that. i can show you
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:01.463
What i know how to do, but i don't know how to do that. now.
00:43:01.463 --> 00:43:05.434
God's been goofy, faithful. i mean, unbelievable, but i'm so
00:43:05.434 --> 00:43:08.236
Grateful i got to make the journey because i could tell
00:43:08.236 --> 00:43:11.740
You stories i've learned all along the way, and the lives
00:43:11.740 --> 00:43:14.710
That i've got to make the journey with. i have friends
00:43:14.710 --> 00:43:17.346
That went to heaven early that i broke my heart and i wept
00:43:17.346 --> 00:43:21.516
Over. i fasted one year, i fasted more days than i ate
00:43:21.516 --> 00:43:25.821
Because i had dear friends in some life threatening places.
00:43:25.821 --> 00:43:29.825
And i don't have all the answers for that, but i'm more
00:43:29.825 --> 00:43:33.061
Convinced of the faithfulness of god than i've ever been.
00:43:33.061 --> 00:43:35.931
>> yeah.
00:43:35.931 --> 00:43:37.032
>> and i will sign up for greater challenges today than
00:43:37.132 --> 00:43:39.701
At any time in my life because i know god.
00:43:39.701 --> 00:43:43.505
>> yeah.
00:43:43.505 --> 00:43:44.673
>> and i've seen what he will do. and i'm like, what are we
00:43:44.773 --> 00:43:47.175
Going to do? take a longer cruise? i mean, i'm okay with
00:43:47.175 --> 00:43:52.180
Rest, but i'm not here to. i'll rest when i get the next right
00:43:52.180 --> 00:43:56.585
Now i'm going to go lead with my faith.
00:43:56.585 --> 00:43:58.954
>> yeah.
00:43:58.954 --> 00:44:00.122
>> you know, we always look at the heroes of faith in hebrews
00:44:00.222 --> 00:44:02.624
11. you know, moses and the walls of jericho and all the
00:44:02.624 --> 00:44:08.730
Abraham and all this stuff, but.
00:44:08.730 --> 00:44:09.931
>> all the instagram.
00:44:09.931 --> 00:44:11.199
>> all the. but they overcame by by their faith they overcame.
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:17.673
So they you were saying that you has to be something to
00:44:17.673 --> 00:44:21.343
Overcome. but then the last the last verse in chapter 11 is.
00:44:21.343 --> 00:44:26.314
And all of these things. so if you want to read hebrews 11,
00:44:26.314 --> 00:44:29.951
You can. having obtained a good testimony through faith, did
00:44:29.951 --> 00:44:35.357
Not receive the promise.
00:44:35.357 --> 00:44:37.459
>> wow.
00:44:37.459 --> 00:44:38.927
>> it only together with us.
00:44:38.927 --> 00:44:40.729
>> yeah. god having provided something better for us,
00:44:40.729 --> 00:44:45.000
Explain this part that they should not be made perfect
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.004
Apart from us.
00:44:49.004 --> 00:44:51.540
>> well, i don't think any single generation has the whole
00:44:51.540 --> 00:44:53.775
Story.
00:44:53.775 --> 00:44:54.543
>> there it is. yeah.
00:44:54.543 --> 00:44:55.744
>> isaiah got sawn in half. i isaiah. yeah i isaiah i mean
00:44:55.744 --> 00:45:03.385
Not like some half hearted low commitment person that couldn't
00:45:03.385 --> 00:45:09.558
Discern the voice of god.
00:45:09.558 --> 00:45:10.992
>> as a, as in the guy that said he was wounded for our
00:45:10.992 --> 00:45:14.196
Transgressions and bruised for.
00:45:14.196 --> 00:45:15.297
>> our iniquities.
00:45:15.297 --> 00:45:16.398
>> you know, i mean, that guy.
00:45:16.398 --> 00:45:18.200
>> or moses didn't get to go in the promised land, right? his
00:45:18.200 --> 00:45:22.871
Face glowed in the dark. i mean, he talked to god like you and i
00:45:22.871 --> 00:45:29.311
Talk.
00:45:29.311 --> 00:45:29.644
>> yeah.
00:45:29.644 --> 00:45:30.846
>> but god disciplined him. and i think, oh, lord, i have been
00:45:30.946 --> 00:45:36.885
Sloppy with you. i have threatened to not serve you
00:45:36.885 --> 00:45:42.624
Because of the car i'm driving.
00:45:42.624 --> 00:45:45.594
>> okay.
00:45:45.594 --> 00:45:46.862
>> if this is the best you can give me, i'm not going to serve
00:45:46.862 --> 00:45:49.898
You. god, i am so sorry.
00:45:49.898 --> 00:45:51.767
>> yeah.
00:45:51.767 --> 00:45:52.901
>> i have been. petty and childish, not childlike. i have
00:45:53.001 --> 00:45:56.705
Been childish. and i want to learn to be faithful.
00:45:56.705 --> 00:46:02.811
Tremendous victories, amazing blessings. you know, i was
00:46:02.811 --> 00:46:07.149
Convicted recently. it's a little off topic, but i think
00:46:07.149 --> 00:46:11.720
It's helpful. you know, i've if you have enough birthdays, you
00:46:11.720 --> 00:46:16.858
Stack some experiences. so i've gotten to know city mayors and
00:46:16.858 --> 00:46:21.163
Governors and congressmen and senators and cabinet members.
00:46:21.163 --> 00:46:26.601
And i was i was thinking of those people one day and i
00:46:26.601 --> 00:46:29.838
Realized they're normal. there is normal as you and me. but
00:46:29.838 --> 00:46:34.142
They got a job that had a block of authority with it. make
00:46:34.142 --> 00:46:38.079
Sense? now, if i go to a professional basketball game,
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:43.485
Those people playing are not normal. they're unicorns. they
00:46:43.485 --> 00:46:48.590
Can jump over a gym. they're freaks of nature.
00:46:48.590 --> 00:46:52.160
>> yeah.
00:46:52.160 --> 00:46:53.228
>> politicians are not freaks of.
00:46:53.228 --> 00:46:54.529
>> nature, right?
00:46:54.529 --> 00:46:55.697
>> they have a block of authority. and this is when the
00:46:55.697 --> 00:46:58.767
Holy spirit, like just sucker punch. he said, you're an
00:46:58.767 --> 00:47:03.038
Ambassador for my kingdom.
00:47:03.038 --> 00:47:04.072
>> oh, hey.
00:47:04.072 --> 00:47:05.307
>> and i said, yes, sir. well, i despise politicians that use
00:47:05.307 --> 00:47:10.111
Their power for personal benefit and for family gain
00:47:10.111 --> 00:47:14.850
Alone.
00:47:14.850 --> 00:47:15.183
>> hey.
00:47:15.183 --> 00:47:16.251
>> i have no use for them. i disdain them and the holy
00:47:16.351 --> 00:47:19.888
Spirit saying, well, you've been in a thousand prayer
00:47:19.888 --> 00:47:23.491
Meetings at least, and 99% of the prayers have been prayed
00:47:23.491 --> 00:47:28.530
For. my kids and my dog and my neighbor. no, i know god cares
00:47:28.530 --> 00:47:35.070
About my personal life, that he knows how many hairs are on my
00:47:35.070 --> 00:47:38.206
Head. and when i sit and stand and come and go. but i also
00:47:38.206 --> 00:47:42.110
Believe i have a responsibility to pray that the name of jesus
00:47:42.110 --> 00:47:45.113
Be exalted in the streets of tehran, and i will not turn
00:47:45.113 --> 00:47:49.718
Loose until we see that, that we will have the privilege of
00:47:49.718 --> 00:47:53.688
Preaching in havana. we'll go back to havana, not to bend the
00:47:53.688 --> 00:47:58.126
Knee to castro and his communist, but to exalt the
00:47:58.126 --> 00:48:02.163
Name of our king.
00:48:02.163 --> 00:48:03.265
>> yes.
00:48:03.265 --> 00:48:04.499
>> and i thought, i'm not going to be like a swamp creature,
00:48:04.499 --> 00:48:07.669
Christian. i'm going to be i'm not. i'm not going to just pray
00:48:07.669 --> 00:48:11.740
For the persecuted church because that's nobody. i'm
00:48:11.740 --> 00:48:13.708
Going to take some specific places and begin to pray.
00:48:13.708 --> 00:48:16.278
>> you're going to have to do the hard work. pray for our
00:48:16.278 --> 00:48:21.683
Audience.
00:48:21.683 --> 00:48:22.384
>> it's an.
00:48:22.384 --> 00:48:23.485
>> honor that is grappling maybe with this idea that, you
00:48:23.585 --> 00:48:30.759
Know, we're in this for the the responsibility. the kingdom is
00:48:30.759 --> 00:48:35.430
On our shoulders. and think of that. what you just said is
00:48:35.430 --> 00:48:40.035
Amazing. how much do we want to vote out of office? a
00:48:40.035 --> 00:48:47.242
Politician that uses that power to inure to their own benefit,
00:48:47.242 --> 00:48:52.314
This private informant thing. and we're we're privately
00:48:52.314 --> 00:48:56.251
Ignoring our prayers of the king of the universe for our
00:48:56.251 --> 00:49:00.622
Own stuff. and hey, oh, that'll that'll get your attention. the
00:49:00.622 --> 00:49:07.028
Hard work is yours, sir.
00:49:07.028 --> 00:49:09.564
>> amen. i the first thing i would say, it takes some
00:49:09.564 --> 00:49:12.801
Humility to come do this interview with you when i'm
00:49:12.801 --> 00:49:15.370
Hoarse. you know, i'm going to talk about the power of god to
00:49:15.370 --> 00:49:19.374
Heal and deliver and and i'm croaking out my voice. so it's
00:49:19.374 --> 00:49:22.877
Not from a place of great perfection and constant triumph,
00:49:22.877 --> 00:49:27.215
But it doesn't make god any less real. so if you are in the
00:49:27.215 --> 00:49:31.920
Pit, if you're in the lion's den or the furnace, or you're
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:35.657
On the backside of the desert, or you're waiting for the
00:49:35.657 --> 00:49:38.393
Fulfillment of the child that god's told you is coming, god
00:49:38.393 --> 00:49:41.262
Is no less faithful and you haven't missed him. let's
00:49:41.262 --> 00:49:44.833
Invite god into the midst of this day that we can recognize
00:49:44.833 --> 00:49:48.069
His invitation. i want to pray. father, i thank you. and i pray
00:49:48.069 --> 00:49:52.073
That not one person that has taken the time to listen would
00:49:52.073 --> 00:49:54.642
Grow weary in doing good, but that we would remain faithful
00:49:54.642 --> 00:49:58.513
And overcome so that the proper time we will receive our
00:49:58.513 --> 00:50:02.484
Harvest. lord, i thank you that you're a god of faithfulness,
00:50:02.484 --> 00:50:06.087
That you're a god who keeps your word, that you are
00:50:06.087 --> 00:50:09.357
Absolutely trustworthy. and lord, we turn our faces to you
00:50:09.357 --> 00:50:12.594
Today and i thank you for your victory in our lives, that we
00:50:12.594 --> 00:50:16.197
Will not succumb to the temptation of comfort and
00:50:16.197 --> 00:50:19.467
Convenience, but we will lead with our faith and honor you in
00:50:19.467 --> 00:50:22.504
Our homes, in the classrooms, in the courtrooms, on the
00:50:22.504 --> 00:50:25.540
Factory floors. wherever you take us, we will go in the name
00:50:25.540 --> 00:50:29.444
Of jesus. and i thank you for the victory that will be yours.
00:50:29.444 --> 00:50:32.547
Thank you jesus. amen.
00:50:32.547 --> 00:50:34.582
>> amen.
00:50:34.582 --> 00:50:35.717
>> amen. we need to believe this. we need to get after it.
00:50:35.817 --> 00:50:38.853
And i think it's i think it's appropriate to end this
00:50:38.853 --> 00:50:42.824
Discussion with just the reading of acts 1916. the man
00:50:42.824 --> 00:50:46.861
In whom the evil spirit leaped on, mastered all of them, and
00:50:46.861 --> 00:50:52.200
Overpowered them so that they fled the house naked and
00:50:52.200 --> 00:50:55.470
Wounded. okay. those are the sons of shiva. and just help
00:50:55.470 --> 00:51:01.476
Balance in the final little moment here. the fact that you
00:51:01.476 --> 00:51:08.383
Better hear the voice of the lord, and he will be with you
00:51:08.383 --> 00:51:13.321
To endure. but sometimes if you just think you're supposed to
00:51:13.321 --> 00:51:17.025
Go off and do something, if you and i just say, hey, let's go
00:51:17.025 --> 00:51:20.662
Start a yogurt shop, you know, out here on the 386 out here,
00:51:20.662 --> 00:51:25.633
We might not be successful. i don't know, we might, you know,
00:51:25.633 --> 00:51:29.104
Who knows? maybe.
00:51:29.104 --> 00:51:29.904
>> maybe that's not stripped naked.
00:51:29.904 --> 00:51:31.306
>> yeah. but but but hopefully, you know, i mean, but there is
00:51:31.306 --> 00:51:36.144
Scripture about getting the womp beat out of you by a demon
00:51:36.144 --> 00:51:40.415
Possessed person, and it tears your clothes off and you go
00:51:40.415 --> 00:51:43.284
Running naked. so how do you how do you how do you discern
00:51:43.284 --> 00:51:46.855
That?
00:51:46.855 --> 00:51:48.690
>> well.
00:51:48.690 --> 00:51:49.124
>> your book.
00:51:49.124 --> 00:51:49.791
>> we don't we.
00:51:49.791 --> 00:51:51.025
>> paul didn't tell us the rest of that story. but following
00:51:51.025 --> 00:51:53.995
That event is when that remarkable move of god came to
00:51:53.995 --> 00:51:57.332
Ephesus. and i have to believe those six young men were there
00:51:57.332 --> 00:52:01.603
Because what they didn't know made front page news. and i
00:52:01.603 --> 00:52:07.008
Suspect that they got very interested in what was
00:52:07.008 --> 00:52:10.278
Authentic. t that demon said to them, i know paul and i know
00:52:10.278 --> 00:52:13.915
Jesus, you i don't know so much. and then everything fell apart.
00:52:13.915 --> 00:52:18.586
And i want to believe they got to know jesus. and what i would
00:52:18.586 --> 00:52:22.190
Say if your yogurt shop fell apart, step closer to jesus.
00:52:22.190 --> 00:52:26.161
Yeah. he's not done with you. he didn't need my yogurt. he
00:52:26.161 --> 00:52:29.764
Needs me to be faithful.
00:52:29.764 --> 00:52:31.199
>> yeah.
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:32.333
>> because he can make yogurt rain out of the sky. he put
00:52:32.433 --> 00:52:34.636
Manna on the ground and parted the red sea. he doesn't need me
00:52:34.636 --> 00:52:37.739
To be successful. he needs me to be faithful. and if i'll do
00:52:37.739 --> 00:52:41.910
That, we'll be golden.
00:52:41.910 --> 00:52:43.444
>> he can make yogurt come out of the air. that's the quote of
00:52:43.444 --> 00:52:48.516
The of.
00:52:48.516 --> 00:52:49.350
>> the evening that will make instagram.
00:52:49.450 --> 00:52:50.518
>> thank you brother. thank you.
00:52:50.518 --> 00:52:52.120
>> god bless you. we'll see you next time.
00:52:52.120 --> 00:52:52.120

Allen Jackson: Lead With Faith | Praise

July 6, 2026 | 53:10

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