Praise

Ann Voskamp: Healing Through Resurrection Power | Praise

April 22, 2025 | 55:30

Ann Voskamp shares her journey of discovering the depth of God's love and the transformative power of gratitude. Ann opens up about her own struggles and how she found healing and joy through embracing the cruciform life of following Jesus. Through personal anecdotes and insights from the Gospel of John, Ann encourages viewers to embrace their brokenness and find hope in the love of Christ.

#PersonalStory #Author #Healing #SeekGod #Surrender #Humility #Praise #Lifestyle #Religion #Jesus #SpiritualGrowth #TalkShow #AnnVoskamp #SheilaWalsh #Resurrection #Christ-like #Discipleship

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Praise | Ann Voskamp: Healing Through Resurrection Power | Praise | April 22, 2025

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Male announcer: coming up tonight on "praise."
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Ann voskamp: to live a life that follows jesus, what does it mean
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To live a life of discipleship?
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It involves being given, it involves surrender.
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Christianity takes the posture of cruciformity, and i don't
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Think there's any transformation in our lives apart from
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Living cruciformation.
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It has to look like a cross.
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♪♪♪
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Male announcer: tonight on "praise," from dallas, best
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Selling canadian author and christian blogger ann voskamp.
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And now your host sheila walsh.
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Sheila walsh: let me ask you a question.
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Do you feel as if you're kind of survival mode, like just kind of
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Getting through one more day, that you're just holding on?
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And maybe you look back in times when it felt like the lord was
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So close and now you feel like, lord, i'm just going through
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The motions.
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I am so, so, so glad that you're joining us tonight because my
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Guest has written this fantastic new book, but more than that,
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She lives this life that speaks volumes about the love of god.
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In fact, let me just read a quote from her book.
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The book is called "loved to life."
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As you know, my darling guest is ann voskamp, but this sort
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Of says.
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"you don't have to wait for a perfect life to have a happy
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Life because jesus already gave you his perfect life and he is
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All the perfection you will ever need."
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You know, ann, when i read that, i remember thinking i wish i'd
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Read that 30 years ago.
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Because i spent so much of my life trying to pursue perfection
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Because i thought that was what jesus wanted.
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Ann: yes, not only do i still resonate with that, sheila, i
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Was like i can't be happy till i arrive at perfection.
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Whether it be in my home, my personal life and my
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Relationships, that it was wrong actually to be happy if you
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Hadn't arrived at perfection yet.
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And then to realize no, no, no, i can be happy now because jesus
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Is my perfection and all the perfection i need was the
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Complete--i remember my husband and i having a conversation
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About it at the kitchen sink.
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And that was your total paradigm shift for like oh, wait, i
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Already have a perfect life in christ.
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He's all the perfection i need.
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Happiness can meet me even in a place of brokenness because
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Christ's perfectness covers all of that.
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Sheila: i honestly think that's revolutionary news to a bunch of
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Our family who are watching.
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Ann: yes, it was for me and even after i'd walked with the lord
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For a long time that we can cerebrally understand something
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And then sometimes, oh wait, that drops down to a part of our
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Heart that needs redeeming.
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Sheila: yeah, so let me tell you about the very first time
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That i heard you speak.
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Ann: oh, dear.
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Sheila: no, no, no, no, it was back during the years when i was
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Part of the women of faith team.
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And we invited you to come in and speak and i wanted to stand
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At the side of the stage.
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I wanted to be as close to you as i could without being awkward
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Because i wanted to listen.
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And honestly, at first, when you started speaking i thought, this
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Is different.
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There was something about the way you delivered your message,
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The way that you almost like opened up your heart and let us
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See inside, it felt like, i almost felt like, oh i should
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Back off a little here, this is very intimate.
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And by the end of it, i wrote one thing in my notebook, this
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Is holy ground.
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And that's how i felt.
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So i want for our viewers who don't know you, because we've a
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Lot of new people who are watching tbn now.
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Would you tell us just a little of your own story because i'm
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Sure they like me want to know how did you get to this place?
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Ann: it's a question i ask a lot, sheila.
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First of all, it is such a joy and a grace and a gift to be in
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Your presence truly.
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Every room that has sheila walsh in it, we are all the richer.
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So just thank you.
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I remember being, i think that's back in 2012 at women of faith,
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Yeah, exactly, how did i end up there?
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I went through university to be an elementary school teacher is
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Really what i wanted to be.
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And my husband and i got married.
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I'm a 7th generation farmer, his family too goes back farming as
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Far as i wanted to be a farmer, his wife, and i wanted to teach
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Little kids.
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So we got married at the end of my second year of university.
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And then i was expecting almost shortly thereafter, so i took a
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Pause of a one-year sabbatical from my degree in education.
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Came home and caleb was born and i was like, oh i can't leave
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This little baby.
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So then i transferred my degree and continued working on a
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Concurrent degree in child psychology and education
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Distance education.
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But really, i loved words, i loved the word, i loved writing,
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And i loved reading.
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So i really came to this space through, at the end of the day
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We ended up having six kids in ten years.
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So there's a lot of little kids.
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I get up every day and i wash the dishes, and do the laundry,
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And clean the house, and i get up and i do it all
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Again tomorrow.
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At the end of the day after i tuck the babies into bed, if i
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Could sit down and write out the story of the day, where i saw
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God's hand moving, i called it canning up the summer of my life
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For the winter of my life.
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That i wanted a record.
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I wanted a record of our days, just our everyday days.
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But when i would write i could connect dots.
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Look at god was doing this and god's doing that, so i just
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Started to write an online journal with no, i mean it was
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An online journal just so that i could search it.
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But i had no comments or anything and somebody, two
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Different authors found me writing and they reached out to
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Their agent and said you should talk to this lady, she's writing
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A lot about gratitude.
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So i was writing about how gratitude was revolutionizing
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My life.
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I grew up with a lot of fear.
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My first memory is my 18-month-old baby sister, was
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Killed in front of my mother and i were washing dishes in the
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Farmhouse and i was standing on a chair and a service truck came
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Into the yard and didn't see her.
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And when you're four years old and you see something so
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Traumatic, the world feels like a really scary place.
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So by the time i was in grade 2 and i was seven years old, i had
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Ulcers and was hospitalized and then by teen i was cutting.
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I didn't know where to take all of that pain at all.
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And the panic that something terrible could befall you at
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Any moment.
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But you can't simultaneously feel fear and gratitude at the
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Same time.
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So starting to pick up a pen and starting to write down the
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Things that i was grateful for radically transformed my life.
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I started to count all the ways god loves me, and perfect love
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Casts out all fear.
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So i wrote a book about how writing down 1,000 gifts changed
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My life, and i think that's where you and i got to
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Cross paths.
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Sheila: yeah, one of the things i find fascinating about your
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Writing, i can never read your books quickly.
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There are some books i can read quickly and still grab hold of
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The central message.
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Yours i can't, i have to pause, constantly i have to pause
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Because you make me think.
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You have this unique gift to be able to embrace the reality that
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Life is hard and people are suffering and the greatness of
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Jesus and the promise of his.
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How did you come into a personal relationship with jesus?
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Ann: i grew up in a non-christian home, and after my
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Sister was killed it was devastating for my parents.
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But a neighboring farmer's wife, two dutch women who had thick
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Dutch accents, who had emigrated, who had grade 6,
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Grade 8 education but loved jesus.
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They started a good news bible club, child evangelism
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Fellowship and inviting all the little neighbor kids from all
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The farms.
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And i heard about the saving hope of jesus and gave my life
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To him.
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There was a place then to start to bring the pain to someone.
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I think the reality is sometimes when we think about gratitude we
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Can think of with a pollyanna kind of, that everything is
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Naive and you're just not sophisticated enough to realize
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That the world is really difficult.
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But i think when we really understand that in the presence
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Of jesus we can hold space for both deep loss, and lament, and
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Grief, and at the same time the goodness of god, the grace of
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God, the gifts of god.
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And i believe when we live a wholehearted life those two
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Chambers of our heart is the pulsing through of i can
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Honestly lament before the lord and at the same time god is
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Redeeming all things and working all things together for good.
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So i think if we're gonna live an authentic life, we make space
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For the pain and yet can we turn the pain into poetry, into
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Purpose, into experiencing the presence of god in the midst of
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The pain.
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Sheila: i told someone that i was gonna have the privilege of
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Interviewing you.
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She said, ask ann what she means by living a cruciform life.
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Ann: oh, it's one of my most favorite words.
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Sheila: i know it is.
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Ann: cruciform means to live a life, cruciform the word itself
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Is formed like a cross, cruci-form.
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So i believe that everything jesus actually lives for us
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Throughout scripture.
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He models what it means to live a cruciform life, and i
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Actually, in one of my books, "the broken way," i talk about
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What it looks like to live a cruciform life and i draw with a
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Pen on my wrist all the time, where i used to have the scars
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From cutting.
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The cross that vertical beam that goes down, those are all
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The blessings of god that come down.
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Can i go ahead and give thanks for all of the blessings?
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There's always, always, always something to be thankful for in
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The midst of our everyday lives.
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And then can i live the horizontal beam of that cross,
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Take all of the gifts, and live broken and given like bread out
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Into the world that those cross beams that are extended.
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To live a cruciform life is to live a life that is shaped and
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Formed like jesus, a life of humility, a life
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Of vulnerability.
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That posture is a posture of not protecting oneself or turning in
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On oneself, but living outreach both towards god and
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Towards people.
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I think if we have what does it mean to live a life that
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Follows jesus?
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What does it mean to live a life of discipleship?
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It looks like a cruciform life.
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Cruciform so it involves being vulnerable, it involves being
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Given, it involves surrender.
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And what does it look like to live into that posture
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Of surrender?
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So i think when we think about christian, christianity takes
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The posture of cruciformity and i don't think there's any
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Transformation in our lives apart from
00:11:11.093 --> 00:11:13.896
Living cruciformation.
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It has to look like a cross.
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Sheila: it's so interesting i got a note on social media from
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Someone and they wanted to know why i had tattoos on my wrists.
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Because on one wrist i have "the cross equals love" and another
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Wrist we have the two words that my mother lived by "yes, lord."
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And i took her question seriously, it wasn't somebody
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Just kind of throwing that.
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And i told her that, you know, that i have a diagnosis of
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Clinical depression, but that in the worst moments before i was
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Able to find a a better path, that that's where i felt i would
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End my life.
00:11:48.264 --> 00:11:49.632
So now i raise my arms and worship, that that's what it's
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All about.
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It's like remembering the darkest places, when christ
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Shines light into the darkest places, it shifts everything.
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Ann: yes having that cross over where those scars are on my
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Hand, that he covers all of that, that cross is like a soul
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Compass for me to reorient myself again.
00:12:09.819 --> 00:12:12.621
And i only have one other tattoo, i have "eucharisteo"
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Underneath the cross, which is the greek word for living,
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Living a life of gratitude.
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Because i hope in my old age if i forget everything else i can
00:12:19.829 --> 00:12:22.865
Look down and say, what can i be grateful for in this moment?
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And if i forget everything, i can be grateful for the cross
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Of christ.
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Sheila: oh wow.
00:12:29.538 --> 00:12:30.906
So this incredible new book, i was sitting in bed last night
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Reading through it.
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Because as you've done it like a devotional, but what i found
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Interesting was i downloaded the kindle version as well because i
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Wanted to see the passages that people had underlined.
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And i didn't even realize you could do that before, it'll tell
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You like 500 people underlined this one line.
00:12:48.157 --> 00:12:51.961
And it was really significant, but i wondered, this is
00:12:51.961 --> 00:12:54.964
Basically a walk through john's gospel.
00:12:54.964 --> 00:12:57.433
What was the genesis of this for you?
00:12:57.433 --> 00:13:04.306
Ann: we had those six babies in ten years, and we had a
00:13:04.306 --> 00:13:08.677
Tradition as a family that during the month of december for
00:13:08.677 --> 00:13:11.881
Advent we would always start the christmas story back in genesis.
00:13:11.881 --> 00:13:16.218
And we would look at from the beginning of time, jesus has
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Been coming in all of the family tree of god and all of the
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Messed up families.
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Look at how god is redeeming everything.
00:13:23.926 --> 00:13:25.461
And out of the cut-off stump of jesse there's this new shoot
00:13:25.461 --> 00:13:28.931
That arises, which is the messiah.
00:13:28.931 --> 00:13:30.633
So when we got to december 25th, the christmas tree, we would
00:13:30.633 --> 00:13:33.869
Understand the family tree of god and how we've been
00:13:33.869 --> 00:13:36.005
Grafted in.
00:13:36.005 --> 00:13:37.373
So our kids would always get so excited that in december was
00:13:37.373 --> 00:13:39.642
Always the month where we would go through the whole arc of the
00:13:39.642 --> 00:13:41.844
Old testament, so that when jesus was born, we would
00:13:41.844 --> 00:13:44.647
Understand who the king of kings really is.
00:13:44.647 --> 00:13:47.383
Well then i realized, so this book has been hundreds of
00:13:47.383 --> 00:13:49.785
Thousands of copies have gone out into the world.
00:13:49.785 --> 00:13:51.220
It was a new york times bestseller book.
00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:52.922
It's been out there for at least ten years now.
00:13:52.922 --> 00:13:54.857
The people have gone through advent, but i realized i have
00:13:54.857 --> 00:13:57.459
Never taken you from the manger to the cross, and to the
00:13:57.459 --> 00:14:02.765
Empty tomb.
00:14:02.765 --> 00:14:04.133
Discipleship and pilgrimage with jesus.
00:14:04.133 --> 00:14:06.735
If i believe that transformation doesn't happen apart from a life
00:14:06.735 --> 00:14:11.106
Of cruciformation, how do we live a cruciform life?
00:14:11.106 --> 00:14:13.409
We need proximity with jesus to actually pilgrimage with jesus.
00:14:13.409 --> 00:14:19.415
And i think culturally we can get really excited about
00:14:19.415 --> 00:14:22.484
Christmas, but the high point of our lives is that tree at
00:14:22.484 --> 00:14:30.225
Calvary and the empty tomb on resurrection sunday.
00:14:30.225 --> 00:14:34.663
So how can we have a cultural shift that we are anticipating
00:14:34.663 --> 00:14:39.568
Through lent, 40 days of really preparing our hearts for the
00:14:39.568 --> 00:14:45.341
Meaningfulness that's going to happen at easter?
00:14:45.341 --> 00:14:47.910
So while the book isn't meant just for lent, it is a 40-day
00:14:47.910 --> 00:14:51.547
Pilgrimage that can take you through lent and actually to
00:14:51.547 --> 00:14:54.450
Pilgrimage with jesus right where you are.
00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:56.852
You don't have to get on a plane and go to the holy land.
00:14:56.852 --> 00:14:58.954
You can have a holy experience here going through the book of
00:14:58.954 --> 00:15:01.523
John and encountering jesus in a fresh way.
00:15:01.523 --> 00:15:05.060
They can touch you in your everyday places that is
00:15:05.060 --> 00:15:07.429
Truly transformational.
00:15:07.429 --> 00:15:08.831
Sheila: if you're just joining us, welcome.
00:15:08.831 --> 00:15:11.734
My guest tonight, ann voskamp, and this book is called "loved
00:15:11.734 --> 00:15:15.037
To life: a 40-day pilgrimage with love himself that will
00:15:15.037 --> 00:15:19.775
Change your life."
00:15:19.775 --> 00:15:22.311
One of the things i wanted to ask you about is, you highlight
00:15:22.311 --> 00:15:25.914
Different people through this story.
00:15:25.914 --> 00:15:29.385
When you studied, for example, like the life of john the
00:15:29.385 --> 00:15:31.787
Baptist, what stood out to you in that story as you meditated
00:15:31.787 --> 00:15:37.159
On how he lived?
00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:38.827
Ann: i think it what's so--first of all, when we open up
00:15:38.827 --> 00:15:43.732
Scripture and when we sit, these are real people.
00:15:43.732 --> 00:15:46.869
Sheila: yeah.
00:15:46.869 --> 00:15:48.203
Ann: they're people who had feelings like we have feelings,
00:15:48.203 --> 00:15:49.671
They're conflicted, and discouraged, and trying to find
00:15:49.671 --> 00:15:53.175
Their way too.
00:15:53.175 --> 00:15:54.510
So in lots of ways when we open up scripture, it's a mirror to
00:15:54.510 --> 00:15:56.779
Our own humanity in all kinds of ways too.
00:15:56.779 --> 00:15:59.815
John the baptist, he's pointing he becomes a signpost, "prepare
00:15:59.815 --> 00:16:03.986
The way of the lord."
00:16:03.986 --> 00:16:05.587
What does it look like for us to live a life that doesn't center
00:16:05.587 --> 00:16:08.991
Ourselves in the story, but sees ourselves as a sign pointing to
00:16:08.991 --> 00:16:13.529
The one who's the way, the truth, the life?
00:16:13.529 --> 00:16:16.398
The people that we are rubbing shoulders against in our
00:16:16.398 --> 00:16:18.400
Workplaces every day, that we're living next door to, they're all
00:16:18.400 --> 00:16:21.437
Looking for a way through in their everyday lives too.
00:16:21.437 --> 00:16:24.440
What does it look like for us to be a signpost pointing to
00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:29.211
The one?
00:16:29.211 --> 00:16:30.546
And i would hope that this book when i thought about "loved to
00:16:30.546 --> 00:16:32.548
Life," i wanted it to be a kind of book that you could put in a
00:16:32.548 --> 00:16:35.484
Care basket for somebody moving in next door.
00:16:35.484 --> 00:16:37.953
You could put it into a basket for someone who's sick, so they
00:16:37.953 --> 00:16:40.522
Could open up the pages and go, oh look at god is a god who
00:16:40.522 --> 00:16:44.159
Isn't just loving.
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:45.961
He is love himself, and he loved me so much he went to the cross
00:16:45.961 --> 00:16:50.432
To die for me, that they would have this 40-day experience of
00:16:50.432 --> 00:16:53.102
Knowing how loved they are.
00:16:53.102 --> 00:16:55.237
So the book itself is a lot like what john the baptist was.
00:16:55.237 --> 00:16:57.606
What does it look like to be an evangelist to point to jesus?
00:16:57.606 --> 00:17:01.477
Sheila: you know, if someone whose had the privilege of
00:17:01.477 --> 00:17:04.079
Sitting where i'm sitting right now and looking into your eyes
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.181
And saying, you know, ann, i love that you understand all
00:17:06.181 --> 00:17:09.218
That, but honestly i feel like i'm just surviving, i'm just
00:17:09.218 --> 00:17:12.654
Getting through this.
00:17:12.654 --> 00:17:14.022
What would you say to them?
00:17:14.022 --> 00:17:15.357
Ann: i think the first words of this book here was like, "you're
00:17:15.357 --> 00:17:17.126
Not alone."
00:17:17.126 --> 00:17:18.494
I want the person to know you are not alone.
00:17:18.494 --> 00:17:23.098
And i also want them to realize they're being given the
00:17:23.098 --> 00:17:26.869
Permission to come away even for a couple of moments every day,
00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:31.974
To exhale, and to rest in the love of god.
00:17:31.974 --> 00:17:37.446
John refers to himself more than five times throughout the gospel
00:17:37.446 --> 00:17:41.984
Of john.
00:17:41.984 --> 00:17:43.318
He doesn't refer to himself as john, he refers to himself as
00:17:43.318 --> 00:17:45.354
The one whom jesus loves.
00:17:45.354 --> 00:17:47.556
And oftentimes when i would read that, i'd think, my goodness,
00:17:47.556 --> 00:17:50.192
What an arrogant way to kind of frame yourself.
00:17:50.192 --> 00:17:52.361
Like, i wanted to say, does he love all of the other
00:17:52.361 --> 00:17:54.930
Disciples too?
00:17:54.930 --> 00:17:56.265
That's exactly the point though, that was john's identity.
00:17:56.265 --> 00:18:01.303
He saw himself as the one whom jesus loves.
00:18:01.303 --> 00:18:04.072
This book is an invitation for you not to have to strive for
00:18:04.072 --> 00:18:08.043
Perfection or performance.
00:18:08.043 --> 00:18:10.345
Can you come away and rest, put your head on jesus's shoulder
00:18:10.345 --> 00:18:15.450
And already know you're already seen as beloved.
00:18:15.450 --> 00:18:19.521
The pilgrimage, we think of a pilgrimage as trying to get some
00:18:19.521 --> 00:18:24.059
Place to arrive at.
00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:26.361
The only place you need to arrive at is knowing that you
00:18:26.361 --> 00:18:29.498
Are jesus's beloved.
00:18:29.498 --> 00:18:31.333
Everything changes when you can--the performance shifts
00:18:31.333 --> 00:18:37.606
When you realize i'm not working to be loved, i'm actually
00:18:37.606 --> 00:18:40.742
Working out of a place of already being so loved.
00:18:40.742 --> 00:18:43.946
I think actually every day we get up and we're striving to get
00:18:43.946 --> 00:18:46.882
Through every day because we're trying to prove ourselves.
00:18:46.882 --> 00:18:50.452
And the enemy of our souls is constantly saying you're not
00:18:50.452 --> 00:18:53.355
Enough, you're not doing enough, you haven't really arrived, and
00:18:53.355 --> 00:18:56.191
Got the stamp of approval.
00:18:56.191 --> 00:18:58.393
That can all shift when you're, oh, i'm already loved, and then
00:18:58.393 --> 00:19:01.430
You actually move into your day from a place of overflow and not
00:19:01.430 --> 00:19:05.267
A place of overwhelm.
00:19:05.267 --> 00:19:07.135
Sheila: if you're watching tonight and you're in a place
00:19:07.135 --> 00:19:09.171
Where it's like, you know what that all sounds really lovely,
00:19:09.171 --> 00:19:11.373
Sheila, but if you knew me, if you knew my life, if you knew
00:19:11.373 --> 00:19:15.444
Some of the things that i've done, i struggle to be able to
00:19:15.444 --> 00:19:19.214
Receive that.
00:19:19.214 --> 00:19:20.549
And i wanted to ask you why do you think so many find it hard
00:19:20.549 --> 00:19:24.186
To believe that god loves them so much?
00:19:24.186 --> 00:19:28.657
Ann: well i think first of all, in the gospel of john, there are
00:19:28.657 --> 00:19:32.794
So many people that can resonate with exactly what you said.
00:19:32.794 --> 00:19:35.631
The woman caught in adultery and she's dragged out, about to be
00:19:35.631 --> 00:19:39.501
Stoned and accused.
00:19:39.501 --> 00:19:41.169
The samaritan woman who goes to the well at noon because she
00:19:41.169 --> 00:19:44.706
Doesn't go with the other women early in the morning because she
00:19:44.706 --> 00:19:47.242
Is afraid of their judgment, so she goes when the words won't be
00:19:47.242 --> 00:19:51.780
Cast upon her that she has all of these husbands in her past.
00:19:51.780 --> 00:19:55.183
So i think us sitting here we go, well, i'm so broken.
00:19:55.183 --> 00:19:59.321
If you knew my whole story, i'm not altogether.
00:19:59.321 --> 00:20:01.490
The people in the book of john felt the same way.
00:20:01.490 --> 00:20:08.130
You've been many times also to israel, to be in jerusalem, to
00:20:08.130 --> 00:20:12.601
Be there at the temple courtyard, the place where they
00:20:12.601 --> 00:20:14.970
Really believe that the woman caught in adultery was brought
00:20:14.970 --> 00:20:18.106
In and thrown before jesus.
00:20:18.106 --> 00:20:20.309
And when you're sitting there and you realize jesus kneels
00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:22.711
Down and he's writing something in the dust which we don't know
00:20:22.711 --> 00:20:26.248
Exactly what the word himself was writing.
00:20:26.248 --> 00:20:28.917
But is that detail there, c.s. lewis says that detail is there
00:20:28.917 --> 00:20:31.653
Because nothing ever comes of it, so it must be there only
00:20:31.653 --> 00:20:34.122
Because it actually really happened.
00:20:34.122 --> 00:20:36.625
It's a detail that you wouldn't put in there if actually an eye
00:20:36.625 --> 00:20:39.895
Witness didn't actually see it.
00:20:39.895 --> 00:20:41.863
But to realize that jesus is below the woman caught in
00:20:41.863 --> 00:20:45.400
Adultery, jesus is the lifter of our chins when everybody else
00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:50.706
Abandons us or condemns us.
00:20:50.706 --> 00:20:53.809
Jesus is the one who goes ahead and tells everyone else you
00:20:53.809 --> 00:20:57.279
Without sin you can cast the first stone.
00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:00.549
No one is more gentle with the lines of your story than the
00:21:00.549 --> 00:21:04.353
Word himself.
00:21:04.353 --> 00:21:06.054
I really wanted the book to be called because like christmas
00:21:06.054 --> 00:21:08.557
Book is called "the greatest gift."
00:21:08.557 --> 00:21:10.192
I wanted the book to be called "the greatest passion" because
00:21:10.192 --> 00:21:14.162
To really understand no one has loved you more than jesus
00:21:14.162 --> 00:21:19.000
Loves you.
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.369
And i think sometimes we struggle to understand that
00:21:20.369 --> 00:21:23.138
We're really loved because we think if you knew all the parts
00:21:23.138 --> 00:21:25.841
Of my story, if you knew all of me, you would reject me.
00:21:25.841 --> 00:21:30.579
We come into this world wanting, as my therapist kurt thomas
00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:35.984
Always says, we come into the world looking for someone
00:21:35.984 --> 00:21:39.187
Looking for us.
00:21:39.187 --> 00:21:40.522
We want to be known, we want to be seen, and yet we're terrified
00:21:40.522 --> 00:21:44.292
That if someone actually knew all the parts of us, they would
00:21:44.292 --> 00:21:46.595
Reject us.
00:21:46.595 --> 00:21:48.263
It's a complete paradigm shift to realize that love himself
00:21:48.263 --> 00:21:52.033
Knows all the parts of us and only is attracted more deeply to
00:21:52.033 --> 00:21:57.239
Us and wants to be with us.
00:21:57.239 --> 00:22:00.909
Sheila: you know it's so fascinating because up until i
00:22:00.909 --> 00:22:04.646
Was maybe about 34, my whole thing was you're right, every
00:22:04.646 --> 00:22:08.617
Single human being longs to be fully known and fully loved.
00:22:08.617 --> 00:22:12.854
But the fear of if we're fully known we won't be fully loved,
00:22:12.854 --> 00:22:16.091
We trade away being known.
00:22:16.091 --> 00:22:19.294
And i think that's something that everyone who's watching
00:22:19.294 --> 00:22:21.329
Can understand.
00:22:21.329 --> 00:22:23.698
Have there been moments in your life where it's like you
00:22:23.698 --> 00:22:27.369
Suddenly get a deeper understanding of maybe in pain
00:22:27.369 --> 00:22:31.673
Or in joy of, oh, this is even greater than i could imagine?
00:22:31.673 --> 00:22:37.112
Ann: i think we're always on a pilgrimage we're always on a
00:22:37.112 --> 00:22:40.515
Journey of receiving and accepting and being receptive to
00:22:40.515 --> 00:22:45.253
Greater measures of his love.
00:22:45.253 --> 00:22:46.588
So i don't think we ever really arrive, i think for me picking
00:22:46.588 --> 00:22:50.392
Up that pen and every day just writing down several gifts and
00:22:50.392 --> 00:22:54.463
Realizing, oh wait, i'm not just writing down chronically
00:22:54.463 --> 00:22:57.466
Numbering gifts i'm actually counting the ways he loves
00:22:57.466 --> 00:23:01.002
Me personally.
00:23:01.002 --> 00:23:02.370
Sheila: you do that every day?
00:23:02.370 --> 00:23:03.705
Ann: every day, i have to do it.
00:23:03.705 --> 00:23:05.040
Because it's a way of training my mind and my eyes to look for
00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:07.909
The way love himself is loving me, the way jehovah jireh is
00:23:07.909 --> 00:23:11.880
Providing for me.
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:13.582
So that is one way to train our eyes and our mind to see
00:23:13.582 --> 00:23:17.185
And notice.
00:23:17.185 --> 00:23:18.553
But then i think also every day after i go ahead and i write
00:23:18.553 --> 00:23:21.523
Down the things i'm grateful for, spending time in his word,
00:23:21.523 --> 00:23:25.260
Specifically in the gospels, for me, i love romans 8, and romans
00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:30.599
12, and psalm 90, but i have-- john 11 has become such a--yes,
00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:35.937
Yes, yes.
00:23:35.937 --> 00:23:37.339
John 11 for me really has become a home.
00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:41.443
I mean it holds that the smallest verse in all of
00:23:41.443 --> 00:23:43.812
Scripture "jesus wept."
00:23:43.812 --> 00:23:46.381
Jesus is never apathetic about our pain.
00:23:46.381 --> 00:23:48.650
He's deeply empathetic about our pain.
00:23:48.650 --> 00:23:51.987
And when he's standing there before the tomb where lazarus
00:23:51.987 --> 00:23:56.024
Has died, he's been there four days, he stinketh at this point.
00:23:56.024 --> 00:24:01.329
Jesus--why is he weeping?
00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:02.697
Actually in the original language, he's so deeply moved,
00:24:02.697 --> 00:24:05.667
The actual translation of that is that he feels deep anger that
00:24:05.667 --> 00:24:08.870
He's reeling inside.
00:24:08.870 --> 00:24:10.972
So why is he feeling that way when he knows in a few moments
00:24:10.972 --> 00:24:14.142
He's going to call lazarus out of the tomb and this funeral
00:24:14.142 --> 00:24:17.312
Procession is gonna turn into a celebration.
00:24:17.312 --> 00:24:20.782
He doesn't turn to to mary and martha and say stop your tears.
00:24:20.782 --> 00:24:25.587
Like shared tears is multiplied healing.
00:24:25.587 --> 00:24:28.189
Jesus in his sovereignty, he also gives us solidarity, he
00:24:28.189 --> 00:24:31.126
Weeps with us.
00:24:31.126 --> 00:24:33.495
But in ultimate reality, jesus is weeping because he sees us in
00:24:33.495 --> 00:24:38.400
The future, and he knows how we weep over all kinds of our own
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:42.504
Griefs and our own losses.
00:24:42.504 --> 00:24:44.039
And the injustices that make us angry, jesus is angry about
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:49.144
Those injustices too.
00:24:49.144 --> 00:24:51.079
So john 11 and to come back and realize, oh, i can sit with the
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:55.083
One who is love himself because he deeply empathizes with the
00:24:55.083 --> 00:24:58.920
Way it is to live in a brokenhearted world.
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:01.756
Sheila: i love following you on every place you can, follow ann.
00:25:01.756 --> 00:25:05.994
And by the way, if you haven't checked out ann's page,
00:25:05.994 --> 00:25:08.530
Annvoskamp.com, do yourself a humongous favor.
00:25:08.530 --> 00:25:12.133
Because honestly it's just this richness and have you always
00:25:12.133 --> 00:25:16.071
Been an artist?
00:25:16.071 --> 00:25:17.439
I mean, there's something so artistic and poetic about the
00:25:17.439 --> 00:25:20.141
Way you do things.
00:25:20.141 --> 00:25:21.476
Ann: well, i love not just to write words that are beautiful
00:25:21.476 --> 00:25:23.211
But to take photographs that are sort of beautiful.
00:25:23.211 --> 00:25:25.614
Because i ultimately believe that beauty is irresistible is
00:25:25.614 --> 00:25:29.084
What dostoevsky says.
00:25:29.084 --> 00:25:30.652
And that jesus himself is the ultimate beauty.
00:25:30.652 --> 00:25:33.455
So that when we train our eyes to look for beauty, we're
00:25:33.455 --> 00:25:35.457
Actually being drawn to christ himself.
00:25:35.457 --> 00:25:37.959
So whatever we do, can we do it with beauty because then it
00:25:37.959 --> 00:25:41.496
Actually points to jesus.
00:25:41.496 --> 00:25:43.164
Sheila: it's so funny when you mention that, when my
00:25:43.164 --> 00:25:45.133
Father-in-law barry's dad lived with us for two or three years
00:25:45.133 --> 00:25:47.869
Before he died.
00:25:47.869 --> 00:25:49.204
And he teased me all the time about the books that i
00:25:49.204 --> 00:25:52.540
Would get.
00:25:52.540 --> 00:25:53.875
And i remember one morning he came through with another one
00:25:53.875 --> 00:25:56.811
That had just been delivered, and he said, "here's another
00:25:56.811 --> 00:25:58.647
Book from that dorstenoski."
00:25:58.647 --> 00:26:02.250
I'm like, yep, that's good.
00:26:02.250 --> 00:26:03.585
Ann: yeah that's for sure, for sure.
00:26:03.585 --> 00:26:05.520
Sheila: but i want to go back to the whole thing of how you
00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:08.757
Daily, if somebody's sitting at home thinking, well, that sounds
00:26:08.757 --> 00:26:11.393
Great, but how do i do that?
00:26:11.393 --> 00:26:12.761
Where do i start?
00:26:12.761 --> 00:26:14.095
What would that look like?
00:26:14.095 --> 00:26:15.530
Ann: well, i think it's martin luther who says satan hates the
00:26:15.530 --> 00:26:18.933
Use of pens.
00:26:18.933 --> 00:26:20.268
Sheila: oh.
00:26:20.268 --> 00:26:21.636
Ann: because when we pick up a pen, we start to write down
00:26:21.636 --> 00:26:23.638
Words of gratitude to jesus.
00:26:23.638 --> 00:26:26.274
It's really wielding that pen like a sword to fight for joy.
00:26:26.274 --> 00:26:29.277
The joy of the lord is our strength.
00:26:29.277 --> 00:26:30.879
If we let something steal our joy in the lord, we're letting
00:26:30.879 --> 00:26:33.248
Something steal our strength.
00:26:33.248 --> 00:26:34.582
So when we pick up a pen and start to write down all of the
00:26:34.582 --> 00:26:37.052
Ways that god is loving us.
00:26:37.052 --> 00:26:38.753
And sometimes, you know what, to be really honest, there have
00:26:38.753 --> 00:26:41.723
Been seasons where it's so dark and so hard.
00:26:41.723 --> 00:26:44.959
It's very hard to pick up a pen, but can you find one thing to be
00:26:44.959 --> 00:26:49.964
Grateful for?
00:26:49.964 --> 00:26:51.700
And sometimes it's as simple as, can i go ahead and read a psalm
00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:56.571
And realize that that psalm expresses my heart, and write
00:26:56.571 --> 00:27:00.742
Down that psalm as what i'm grateful for.
00:27:00.742 --> 00:27:02.911
There are times and seasons where i go ahead and i write
00:27:02.911 --> 00:27:04.813
Down all of the things because it's easier to write down all
00:27:04.813 --> 00:27:08.717
The things that i'm not grateful for and train myself that even
00:27:08.717 --> 00:27:12.320
Though this doesn't feel like a gift right now, a redemptive
00:27:12.320 --> 00:27:15.423
Good god is at work redeeming even this into a gift.
00:27:15.423 --> 00:27:19.294
And if i only count when it feels easy as a gift, i've
00:27:19.294 --> 00:27:21.563
Miscounted the gifts.
00:27:21.563 --> 00:27:23.565
So if god's asking us, can you go faith gives thanks in the
00:27:23.565 --> 00:27:27.168
Middle of the story?
00:27:27.168 --> 00:27:28.670
So can i pick up a pen and write down the things that are even
00:27:28.670 --> 00:27:31.072
Hard to give thanks for and realize, oh, i'm trusting right
00:27:31.072 --> 00:27:35.243
Now, i'm having faith that god is going to work even this into
00:27:35.243 --> 00:27:39.714
A good, good gift.
00:27:39.714 --> 00:27:41.416
So it's one way to go ahead and encounter jesus every day to go
00:27:41.416 --> 00:27:43.852
Ahead, i'll pick up a pen and lord, give me eyes to see how
00:27:43.852 --> 00:27:47.388
Are you loving me today?
00:27:47.388 --> 00:27:48.890
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of
00:27:48.890 --> 00:27:52.727
My life.
00:27:52.727 --> 00:27:54.062
Train my eyes, slow me down and up in the pace of my life to
00:27:54.062 --> 00:27:57.031
Slow down and see the goodness and mercy that is following me
00:27:57.031 --> 00:27:59.667
Right now.
00:27:59.667 --> 00:28:01.035
Sheila: okay, guys, that's something you and i could do.
00:28:01.035 --> 00:28:03.004
We could start that literally today.
00:28:03.004 --> 00:28:05.006
That barry, my husband keeps a gratitude journal on the side of
00:28:05.006 --> 00:28:08.376
His bed and you're right, totally it refocuses everything
00:28:08.376 --> 00:28:14.048
Back onto the lord.
00:28:14.048 --> 00:28:15.383
Ann: scripture tells us, "enter into his presence with?"
00:28:15.383 --> 00:28:18.119
Sheila: thanksgiving. ann: "thanksgiving."
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:19.854
Ann: and the message actually says, "enter with the password,
00:28:19.854 --> 00:28:23.658
'thank you.'"
00:28:23.658 --> 00:28:24.993
That when we go ahead and have a heart of gratitude, we're
00:28:24.993 --> 00:28:27.796
Ushered into the presence of god and in his presence is fullness
00:28:27.796 --> 00:28:31.232
Of joy.
00:28:31.232 --> 00:28:33.434
Sheila: when you talk about the story you've touched on this,
00:28:33.434 --> 00:28:36.471
But the samaritan woman.
00:28:36.471 --> 00:28:38.673
Her main identity up until that point was shame and i love the
00:28:38.673 --> 00:28:43.178
Fact that when they're having this discussion about where
00:28:43.178 --> 00:28:46.347
Should we worship, you worship here, we worship there, you
00:28:46.347 --> 00:28:48.416
Know, where's the best, and jesus said, time is coming in
00:28:48.416 --> 00:28:51.019
Fact it's here now when those who worship will worship in
00:28:51.019 --> 00:28:54.455
Spirit and in truth.
00:28:54.455 --> 00:28:55.790
And that little greek word "elethea," with nothing hidden.
00:28:55.790 --> 00:28:59.961
That was revolutionary for me.
00:28:59.961 --> 00:29:01.896
I get to come to god with nothing hidden.
00:29:01.896 --> 00:29:05.099
Because that woman then when she recognizes jesus, she runs back
00:29:05.099 --> 00:29:08.870
To the very people who've shamed her and says, not just come and
00:29:08.870 --> 00:29:12.740
Meet this man who's got good things to say.
00:29:12.740 --> 00:29:14.108
Ann: but come and meet this man--
00:29:14.108 --> 00:29:15.844
Sheila: who told me everything about my life.
00:29:15.844 --> 00:29:17.745
Ann: completely known, completely known and
00:29:17.745 --> 00:29:20.481
Not ashamed.
00:29:20.481 --> 00:29:21.816
I've met people who've said if faith is about this gaze we have
00:29:21.816 --> 00:29:25.553
On jesus, they've shared really vulnerably, it's really hard for
00:29:25.553 --> 00:29:29.290
Me when i've done all of these things in my life, when i have
00:29:29.290 --> 00:29:31.626
This broken story, for me to gaze upon jesus.
00:29:31.626 --> 00:29:35.296
But to realize we are the woman, the samaritan woman at the well.
00:29:35.296 --> 00:29:39.400
Jesus knows everything about us, and he doesn't go around us or
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:44.873
Detour around us.
00:29:44.873 --> 00:29:46.341
He actually wants to only draw closer to the parts of us that
00:29:46.341 --> 00:29:50.979
We don't wanna draw any attention to.
00:29:50.979 --> 00:29:53.715
That is actually paradigm shifting because then we can go
00:29:53.715 --> 00:29:57.685
Ahead we're like that woman, we become evangelists too, we want
00:29:57.685 --> 00:30:01.122
To run out into the world and say whatever you've ever done,
00:30:01.122 --> 00:30:04.158
Jesus covers all of that and he only wants
00:30:04.158 --> 00:30:06.494
Your presence closer to him.
00:30:06.494 --> 00:30:09.097
I think lots of times if we could go ahead and take off our
00:30:09.097 --> 00:30:11.432
Masks, we'll be far better evangelists.
00:30:11.432 --> 00:30:14.435
Sheila: it's so interesting because i think i would have
00:30:14.435 --> 00:30:16.838
Thought before that to take off your mask you would find that
00:30:16.838 --> 00:30:20.775
You're not accepted.
00:30:20.775 --> 00:30:22.277
I've discovered that my brokenness is a far greater
00:30:22.277 --> 00:30:24.946
Bridge to other people than pretend wholeness ever was.
00:30:24.946 --> 00:30:28.950
I remember being invited to speak at this, before women
00:30:28.950 --> 00:30:31.619
Of faith.
00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:32.987
I'd never spoken before.
00:30:32.987 --> 00:30:34.322
I worked in television.
00:30:34.322 --> 00:30:35.690
Oh, yeah, no, i mean that thought terrified me.
00:30:35.690 --> 00:30:37.392
But a friend of mine said, would you do me a favor?
00:30:37.392 --> 00:30:40.695
And she's my best friend so i'm like, yeah, of course i will.
00:30:40.695 --> 00:30:42.730
And she said, will you go to this women's lunch in palm
00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:45.733
Springs and speak?
00:30:45.733 --> 00:30:47.101
And i'm like, no, of course i won't.
00:30:47.101 --> 00:30:49.304
And she's like i need you to do it.
00:30:49.304 --> 00:30:51.172
I'm like, marlene, i don't do that.
00:30:51.172 --> 00:30:52.974
I don't know how to do that.
00:30:52.974 --> 00:30:54.342
And i said, ask, you know, all the women in the circuit
00:30:54.342 --> 00:30:56.978
Who speak.
00:30:56.978 --> 00:30:58.346
And this is what she said and this is my best friend.
00:30:58.346 --> 00:31:00.448
She said, i've asked them all, you are literally the bottom of
00:31:00.448 --> 00:31:02.617
The barrel.
00:31:02.617 --> 00:31:03.985
And because i loved her.
00:31:03.985 --> 00:31:05.320
Ann: but the gem was at the bottom of the barrel.
00:31:05.320 --> 00:31:07.221
Sheila: because i loved her.
00:31:07.221 --> 00:31:08.589
I, said, okay.
00:31:08.589 --> 00:31:09.924
But i remember thinking, oh this is a disaster.
00:31:09.924 --> 00:31:11.459
And i got there and they're like a thousand women, palm springs,
00:31:11.459 --> 00:31:15.530
Chauffeur-driven limousines.
00:31:15.530 --> 00:31:16.864
I mean just the whole.
00:31:16.864 --> 00:31:18.232
And i remember thinking what have i gotten myself into.
00:31:18.232 --> 00:31:22.170
And as i stood up to speak and i looked out at all these perfect
00:31:22.170 --> 00:31:25.340
Women, and perfect faces, and perfect lives, i felt the holy
00:31:25.340 --> 00:31:29.077
Spirit say.
00:31:29.077 --> 00:31:30.411
"just tell the truth."
00:31:30.411 --> 00:31:32.013
Like, okay.
00:31:32.013 --> 00:31:33.748
Ann: "the truth shall set you free," all of these women, yes.
00:31:33.748 --> 00:31:37.018
Sheila: "nice to meet you.
00:31:37.018 --> 00:31:38.453
My name is sheila, and eight weeks ago i was released from a
00:31:38.453 --> 00:31:40.188
Psychiatric hospital."
00:31:40.188 --> 00:31:41.889
And there was just like this kind of gasp.
00:31:41.889 --> 00:31:44.392
And honestly, i didn't even want to make eye contact with anyone
00:31:44.392 --> 00:31:47.362
Because i thought what i would see was who invited her.
00:31:47.362 --> 00:31:50.832
But halfway through i started to look at women and i saw tears
00:31:50.832 --> 00:31:55.136
Flowing through perfect makeup.
00:31:55.136 --> 00:31:57.071
And i thought some of our masks just cost more, but they're
00:31:57.071 --> 00:32:00.875
Serving exactly the same purpose.
00:32:00.875 --> 00:32:04.112
Ann: what we all want is intimacy.
00:32:04.112 --> 00:32:06.714
Sheila: yeah.
00:32:06.714 --> 00:32:08.049
Ann: connection, and the only way to get to connection is
00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:10.385
Through that door of vulnerability, which is what you
00:32:10.385 --> 00:32:13.187
Offered you gave the gift of going first to say this is a
00:32:13.187 --> 00:32:16.290
Broken part of my story and then we were like, oh, shame dies
00:32:16.290 --> 00:32:20.294
When stories are told in safe places and what you did was give
00:32:20.294 --> 00:32:23.831
Those women a safe place.
00:32:23.831 --> 00:32:25.633
There's no shame anymore, which is exactly what jesus does for
00:32:25.633 --> 00:32:28.770
The samaritan woman at the well.
00:32:28.770 --> 00:32:30.605
That shame dies when jesus, this is a safe place for me to come
00:32:30.605 --> 00:32:33.674
With my whole story.
00:32:33.674 --> 00:32:36.177
I hope part of living a cruciform life is exactly what
00:32:36.177 --> 00:32:39.580
You just did there, is going ahead and taking the mask off
00:32:39.580 --> 00:32:42.050
And being vulnerable with all the parts of our hearts.
00:32:42.050 --> 00:32:45.019
And then everybody feels safe to come with all of their parts of
00:32:45.019 --> 00:32:47.588
Their hearts too.
00:32:47.588 --> 00:32:49.123
Sheila: the interesting thing was as it was the only time i'd
00:32:49.123 --> 00:32:51.893
Ever spoken in public, i didn't know how to finish.
00:32:51.893 --> 00:32:53.728
I didn't know how to get off.
00:32:53.728 --> 00:32:55.296
Because like a tv show they roll the credits or concert you're
00:32:55.296 --> 00:32:58.199
Like, good night, cleveland, thank you.
00:32:58.199 --> 00:33:00.568
And so basically i just said, okay, that's kind of all i have
00:33:00.568 --> 00:33:03.404
To say.
00:33:03.404 --> 00:33:04.772
If anybody wants to talk i'll be there.
00:33:04.772 --> 00:33:06.107
The first person to come up to me was the beautiful blonde they
00:33:06.107 --> 00:33:09.644
Sat me beside at the top table.
00:33:09.644 --> 00:33:11.579
And she took off her gold diamond encrusted bracelets and
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:14.816
Showed me where she'd slit her wrists.
00:33:14.816 --> 00:33:17.018
And i remember thinking that was a life-transforming day for me.
00:33:17.018 --> 00:33:21.155
I drove home a couple of hours to where i was living sobbing,
00:33:21.155 --> 00:33:25.093
Saying, you knew that was gonna happen, lord, and i had no idea.
00:33:25.093 --> 00:33:28.196
Because on the way there i was apologizing for the fact he was
00:33:28.196 --> 00:33:31.032
Not gonna look very good.
00:33:31.032 --> 00:33:33.267
Ann: but i think that the whole point is when we go ahead and
00:33:33.267 --> 00:33:36.003
Take our masks off and say this is my broken story, this is
00:33:36.003 --> 00:33:39.507
Where i did cut my wrists and the self-harming and i didn't
00:33:39.507 --> 00:33:41.609
Know where to take that pain, when we go ahead and say, i
00:33:41.609 --> 00:33:44.011
Needed jesus, it actually makes jesus look much better.
00:33:44.011 --> 00:33:47.014
Because it's not that we have it all together, but one came and
00:33:47.014 --> 00:33:49.784
Found us and held us together by his love.
00:33:49.784 --> 00:33:52.887
Sheila: if you're struggling at all to grasp the love of god, i
00:33:52.887 --> 00:33:56.023
Don't know where you're at in your life story at the moment,
00:33:56.023 --> 00:33:58.759
But i want to tell you about ann's book.
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:00.094
It's called "loved to life," and it is rich.
00:34:00.094 --> 00:34:04.432
I mean you can use it as a 40-day devotional.
00:34:04.432 --> 00:34:08.236
You can--whatever works for you, but i have to tell you, just
00:34:08.236 --> 00:34:12.039
Reading even just one of them last night it was like i felt
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:15.610
Like there was the lord had laid out a feast.
00:34:15.610 --> 00:34:18.179
If you struggle to understand that the god of the universe
00:34:18.179 --> 00:34:21.816
Looks at you and says, i love you.
00:34:21.816 --> 00:34:24.418
I know you and i love you.
00:34:24.418 --> 00:34:26.521
I want you to know that this book will make a
00:34:26.521 --> 00:34:29.190
Huge difference.
00:34:29.190 --> 00:34:30.992
You write books that dent our hearts and leave an impression.
00:34:30.992 --> 00:34:35.129
And the thing i think is so interesting about you though,
00:34:35.129 --> 00:34:37.498
Ann, is that you have such a full life.
00:34:37.498 --> 00:34:39.967
I mean you have six children and then you have
00:34:39.967 --> 00:34:41.769
The little lamb from china.
00:34:41.769 --> 00:34:43.271
Ann: yes. sheila: tell us about her.
00:34:43.271 --> 00:34:45.006
Ann: yes, so we had our six children in ten years and then
00:34:45.006 --> 00:34:47.642
There's a 10-year break and then we adopted little shiloh
00:34:47.642 --> 00:34:51.412
From china.
00:34:51.412 --> 00:34:52.780
Shiloh was born with hypoplastic left heart syndrome, so she
00:34:52.780 --> 00:34:55.850
Literally has half of a heart.
00:34:55.850 --> 00:34:57.451
She's had 3 open-heart surgeries and we're praying the lord heals
00:34:57.451 --> 00:35:01.856
Her heart.
00:35:01.856 --> 00:35:04.492
And if not shiloh, the lord will work through a heart transplant
00:35:04.492 --> 00:35:08.896
In shiloh's future.
00:35:08.896 --> 00:35:10.231
Our kids all say, apart from jesus, shiloh is the very best
00:35:10.231 --> 00:35:12.667
Thing that ever happened to us.
00:35:12.667 --> 00:35:16.571
Because we see in shiloh she actually takes a pen now and she
00:35:16.571 --> 00:35:22.577
Draws a cross on her wrist, and then she draws on the side
00:35:22.577 --> 00:35:25.813
A heart.
00:35:25.813 --> 00:35:27.148
And then she always draws the circle and i say, honey, what's
00:35:27.148 --> 00:35:28.749
The circle for?
00:35:28.749 --> 00:35:30.084
And she says, because the empty tomb so we get to raise to life.
00:35:30.084 --> 00:35:33.454
So shiloh's been struggling with this past summer realizing, oh
00:35:33.454 --> 00:35:37.758
Mama, when i need a new heart, where will they get that heart
00:35:37.758 --> 00:35:41.329
For me?
00:35:41.329 --> 00:35:42.697
And gathering her up and telling her how much i love her and that
00:35:42.697 --> 00:35:45.299
Jesus is working that part of the story all out and she told
00:35:45.299 --> 00:35:48.669
Me that her little friends had said that one was really afraid
00:35:48.669 --> 00:35:50.671
Of spiders and the other little girl was really afraid of
00:35:50.671 --> 00:35:53.241
Snakes, but she said, mama, i'm really scared.
00:35:53.241 --> 00:35:54.675
What does it feel like to die?
00:35:54.675 --> 00:35:56.911
And we went back to john 11 because where else do you go but
00:35:56.911 --> 00:36:01.315
To the one who says, "i am the resurrection and the life.
00:36:01.315 --> 00:36:06.187
He who believes in me shall never die."
00:36:06.187 --> 00:36:09.490
This isn't just a story.
00:36:09.490 --> 00:36:11.926
This is our living reality, where else shall we go?
00:36:11.926 --> 00:36:16.330
But you, lord, have the words of life.
00:36:16.330 --> 00:36:19.400
And so for shiloh and i, we have been walking through the book of
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.103
John together and pilgrimaging with the one who says, "i am the
00:36:22.103 --> 00:36:25.973
Way, the truth, the life."
00:36:25.973 --> 00:36:28.576
Sheila: how old is shiloh now?
00:36:28.576 --> 00:36:29.944
Ann: she's now ten. sheila: she's ten?
00:36:29.944 --> 00:36:31.579
Ann: she's ten.
00:36:31.579 --> 00:36:33.080
Shiloh came home when she was 18-months-old, and she says,
00:36:33.080 --> 00:36:36.117
Mama, i'm just gonna stay with you forever, which i think is
00:36:36.117 --> 00:36:38.219
Absolutely perfect.
00:36:38.219 --> 00:36:39.754
Sheila: great answer.
00:36:39.754 --> 00:36:41.122
Great answer.
00:36:41.122 --> 00:36:42.790
The other thing i thought was so fascinating, one of my favorite
00:36:42.790 --> 00:36:45.192
Chapters in john's gospel is where jesus calls himself the
00:36:45.192 --> 00:36:47.662
Good shepherd.
00:36:47.662 --> 00:36:49.463
And you and your darling husband, you're farmers, and you
00:36:49.463 --> 00:36:53.034
Have the most adorable sheep.
00:36:53.034 --> 00:36:54.468
Ann: i am in love with sheep.
00:36:54.468 --> 00:36:55.870
Right now i have 23 sheep and i have learned so much about what
00:36:55.870 --> 00:37:01.642
It means when jesus says that he is the good shepherd.
00:37:01.642 --> 00:37:05.146
This winter we've had a really brutal winter, so cold, and the
00:37:05.146 --> 00:37:10.318
Winds and the temperature was dropped so, so low in the middle
00:37:10.318 --> 00:37:14.088
Of the night.
00:37:14.088 --> 00:37:15.423
So i would be getting up at midnight and at 3 a.m.
00:37:15.423 --> 00:37:17.825
To go out and check on the sheep to make sure that the sheep--
00:37:17.825 --> 00:37:20.928
And standing there under stars and thinking i have a good
00:37:20.928 --> 00:37:25.866
Shepherd who doesn't sleep or slumber, who says he is the
00:37:25.866 --> 00:37:30.371
Door, he lays himself down as the gate into the sheep fold,
00:37:30.371 --> 00:37:33.841
That nothing can come into my life unless it's come
00:37:33.841 --> 00:37:36.877
Through him.
00:37:36.877 --> 00:37:38.779
Sheila: that's a powerful, powerful picture.
00:37:38.779 --> 00:37:40.147
Ann: it changes everything.
00:37:40.147 --> 00:37:41.482
Nothing can get past the good shepherd.
00:37:41.482 --> 00:37:42.850
Actually keep on their window sill at home on the farm, a
00:37:42.850 --> 00:37:45.086
Little sheep figurine in the window sill.
00:37:45.086 --> 00:37:47.421
To remind myself when i get anxious, i have a good shepherd.
00:37:47.421 --> 00:37:51.359
I don't need to know the way through, i don't have to know.
00:37:51.359 --> 00:37:54.195
"that we are like sheep."
00:37:54.195 --> 00:37:56.831
My husband says all the time, darryl is a very, very gracious
00:37:56.831 --> 00:38:00.368
Man, and he almost always says yes to everything.
00:38:00.368 --> 00:38:03.571
So when i said i wanted a sheep, he said no.
00:38:03.571 --> 00:38:06.107
And i said daryl, you always say--.
00:38:06.107 --> 00:38:07.975
Why no?
00:38:07.975 --> 00:38:09.343
And he said, and you always have really great ideas, but i'm the
00:38:09.343 --> 00:38:12.046
One that ends up doing all of the work.
00:38:12.046 --> 00:38:13.414
Like you can have sheep only if you are the one who does all
00:38:13.414 --> 00:38:15.683
The work.
00:38:15.683 --> 00:38:17.017
So now, and i started getting sheep in the middle of
00:38:17.017 --> 00:38:18.853
The pandemic.
00:38:18.853 --> 00:38:20.187
So i was home all the time, but now when i leave, now he takes
00:38:20.187 --> 00:38:23.524
Pictures of him out feeding the sheep, and he sends it to me and
00:38:23.524 --> 00:38:26.060
Says, i love you.
00:38:26.060 --> 00:38:27.395
I fed your sheep for you.
00:38:27.395 --> 00:38:29.430
So when i got out to feed the sheep, darryl says, you know,
00:38:29.430 --> 00:38:32.400
The sheep, when i leave the house they don't baa.
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:35.069
When you leave the sheep at the house and they all baa, they
00:38:35.069 --> 00:38:37.638
Hear your voice, they know your voice.
00:38:37.638 --> 00:38:40.007
And it's true, actually they know, sheep can delineate 40
00:38:40.007 --> 00:38:45.479
Different voices that they actually know those voices.
00:38:45.479 --> 00:38:49.250
And in biblical times, roman times, the word for money was
00:38:49.250 --> 00:38:52.586
Etymologically rooted in the word money.
00:38:52.586 --> 00:38:56.690
So money and sheep are connected to each other because their
00:38:56.690 --> 00:39:00.094
Flocks were their fortune, their wool was their wealth.
00:39:00.094 --> 00:39:04.498
So when jesus calls us his sheep, he's saying that we are
00:39:04.498 --> 00:39:08.502
His treasure, that we are his wealth.
00:39:08.502 --> 00:39:10.738
The lord is my shepherd.
00:39:10.738 --> 00:39:12.506
We are so cherished and treasured by the one who calls
00:39:12.506 --> 00:39:16.444
Us his own.
00:39:16.444 --> 00:39:17.945
So i think having the sheep for me, actually last spring we had
00:39:17.945 --> 00:39:22.016
A ewe who rejected her little lamb and i brought little jemmy
00:39:22.016 --> 00:39:25.853
Into the house and i bottle-fed her and she came everywhere with
00:39:25.853 --> 00:39:28.756
Me and crawled up on my lap.
00:39:28.756 --> 00:39:30.124
And we realized the good shepherd just really wants the
00:39:30.124 --> 00:39:32.893
Presence of his sheep close to him, carried close to his heart.
00:39:32.893 --> 00:39:37.698
Sheila: it's such a powerful picture.
00:39:37.698 --> 00:39:39.033
Ann: it really is.
00:39:39.033 --> 00:39:40.401
Sheila: when barry and i were in new zealand, i was speaking at a
00:39:40.401 --> 00:39:42.269
Church in new zealand.
00:39:42.269 --> 00:39:43.637
And you know, in new zealand there's just sheep everywhere.
00:39:43.637 --> 00:39:46.841
I mean i felt like i'd landed and gone to heaven.
00:39:46.841 --> 00:39:49.877
But when the whole conference was over and we were back at the
00:39:49.877 --> 00:39:53.647
House and other speakers, you know, they were all at the
00:39:53.647 --> 00:39:55.516
Pastor's house for like a supper at the end and it was priscilla
00:39:55.516 --> 00:39:57.952
Shirer and different people, all these different speakers.
00:39:57.952 --> 00:40:00.554
But barry and i are out in the yard because they brought this
00:40:00.554 --> 00:40:03.791
One little lamb.
00:40:03.791 --> 00:40:05.259
A bummer lamb.
00:40:05.259 --> 00:40:06.694
Ann: you and i are soul sisters, yes.
00:40:06.694 --> 00:40:09.730
Sheila: that had that the sheep had rejected this little one,
00:40:09.730 --> 00:40:14.301
And i just have half the photos on my phone are barry and i
00:40:14.301 --> 00:40:17.538
Holding this precious little lamb and feeding it with a
00:40:17.538 --> 00:40:20.207
Bottle and listening to its little voice.
00:40:20.207 --> 00:40:22.910
And when i left, the person whose lamb it was gave me a tiny
00:40:22.910 --> 00:40:26.580
Little lamb, and i have that where i see it every single day.
00:40:26.580 --> 00:40:30.584
And honestly, ann, i can't tell you what that picture does
00:40:30.584 --> 00:40:32.853
For me.
00:40:32.853 --> 00:40:34.221
Ann: it changes absolutely everything to realize that no
00:40:34.221 --> 00:40:36.390
Matter what kind of condemnation happens in the world, what kind
00:40:36.390 --> 00:40:38.993
Of rejection happens, through all kinds of different
00:40:38.993 --> 00:40:41.128
Circumstances, we have a shepherd who will never leave us
00:40:41.128 --> 00:40:44.798
Nor forsake us, leave the ninety-nine for the one, who
00:40:44.798 --> 00:40:46.700
Welcomes us into his throne room and carries us so close.
00:40:46.700 --> 00:40:52.840
So many pictures on my phone.
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:54.642
We had that sheep up on the furniture for like eight weeks.
00:40:54.642 --> 00:40:57.745
The sheep wanted so desperately and i've had several people
00:40:57.745 --> 00:41:01.081
Because the sheep is a really beautiful sheep, several people
00:41:01.081 --> 00:41:03.250
Have asked, we would like to buy the sheep.
00:41:03.250 --> 00:41:05.853
I have said you couldn't pay me enough money and to realize that
00:41:05.853 --> 00:41:10.024
Oh, we are priceless to the good shepherd too.
00:41:10.024 --> 00:41:13.861
Sheila: that is powerful.
00:41:13.861 --> 00:41:15.529
And i'm trying to imagine, you know, for our viewers who are
00:41:15.529 --> 00:41:19.366
Sitting at home in whatever they're dealing with, whatever
00:41:19.366 --> 00:41:22.469
They're going through and thinking, i wish i knew jesus
00:41:22.469 --> 00:41:25.439
The way that you know jesus.
00:41:25.439 --> 00:41:28.108
What would you say to them?
00:41:28.108 --> 00:41:31.345
Ann: again, i think it is to be so tender with that part of your
00:41:31.345 --> 00:41:35.649
Heart to go, oh, i'm not where i want to be.
00:41:35.649 --> 00:41:38.619
We're all on a journey and that journey lots of times is two
00:41:38.619 --> 00:41:42.690
Steps forward and one step, or one step forward and two
00:41:42.690 --> 00:41:44.692
Steps back.
00:41:44.692 --> 00:41:46.060
And i'm a woman of chronic soul amnesia.
00:41:46.060 --> 00:41:48.095
I can know a truth today that i will forget tomorrow, which is
00:41:48.095 --> 00:41:50.431
Why this word is a--
00:41:50.431 --> 00:41:51.966
Sheila: soul amnesia.
00:41:51.966 --> 00:41:53.300
Ann: yeah, i do have soul amnesia all the time.
00:41:53.300 --> 00:41:54.969
I have to keep coming back to the word so the word will preach
00:41:54.969 --> 00:41:57.638
Gospel truth back to myself.
00:41:57.638 --> 00:41:59.840
I think, you know, if you're in a place right now and you're
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:03.711
Really, really hurting, to know that jesus is the one who comes
00:42:03.711 --> 00:42:07.581
As emmanuel, the god who is with us, and he gives you witness
00:42:07.581 --> 00:42:11.518
And witness.
00:42:11.518 --> 00:42:12.853
He sees you and he wants to be with you, so you're not alone no
00:42:12.853 --> 00:42:16.523
Matter what the story looks like to realize that underneath of
00:42:16.523 --> 00:42:19.393
You, no matter how low is low right now.
00:42:19.393 --> 00:42:21.962
And you know a lot of times we can have it all together and we
00:42:21.962 --> 00:42:24.932
Look like we have it all together, but i really believe
00:42:24.932 --> 00:42:26.634
That every single person is carrying an unspoken broken,
00:42:26.634 --> 00:42:29.737
That they don't even know really how to put into words at all.
00:42:29.737 --> 00:42:33.807
So all of us have these parts of our stories to realize that
00:42:33.807 --> 00:42:37.778
Underneath that part of our story is jesus who is love, who
00:42:37.778 --> 00:42:41.615
Is the lifter of our chins, who is the everlasting arms that are
00:42:41.615 --> 00:42:45.152
Underneath of us.
00:42:45.152 --> 00:42:46.820
Can we go ahead and have a rhythm every day to come away
00:42:46.820 --> 00:42:50.791
Into his word and rest?
00:42:50.791 --> 00:42:54.261
Be the disciple whom jesus loves and lay our heads, and our
00:42:54.261 --> 00:42:58.098
Heartbreak, and our burdens up against his chest.
00:42:58.098 --> 00:43:02.503
Faith actually means allegiance to lean everything on someone.
00:43:02.503 --> 00:43:06.707
So can we come with all of our heartbreak, our masks, the
00:43:06.707 --> 00:43:09.343
Things we don't even know how to, the unspoken broken we can't
00:43:09.343 --> 00:43:11.245
Say it out, and lean it up against the one who is love
00:43:11.245 --> 00:43:14.448
Himself and rested there and let his love literally love us back
00:43:14.448 --> 00:43:19.386
To life, revive us.
00:43:19.386 --> 00:43:21.889
Sheila: i've been cheating and i've been reading ahead.
00:43:21.889 --> 00:43:24.458
But i was really captivated when you write about surrender.
00:43:24.458 --> 00:43:28.996
And i think we think that's very hard because what am i giving up
00:43:28.996 --> 00:43:32.266
And what are you gonna make me do?
00:43:32.266 --> 00:43:33.834
We have this kind of picture of, you know, if i surrender then
00:43:33.834 --> 00:43:37.538
Terrible things are gonna happen.
00:43:37.538 --> 00:43:38.872
What does surrender look like to you?
00:43:38.872 --> 00:43:40.274
Ann: yeah, i remember being in israel and our messianic jewish
00:43:40.274 --> 00:43:45.079
Guide was talking about places where the jewish people
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:48.716
Actually surrendered.
00:43:48.716 --> 00:43:50.250
They sacrifice before the lord, this is the surrender of our
00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:53.053
Animal, and what those different sacrifices look like.
00:43:53.053 --> 00:43:55.389
And he said the hebrew word for that is "corban," and it means
00:43:55.389 --> 00:43:59.326
To come nearer.
00:43:59.326 --> 00:44:00.794
Well i was like, wait, wait, wait, what?
00:44:00.794 --> 00:44:02.863
Because in our western understanding, a surrender is to
00:44:02.863 --> 00:44:05.766
Lose something, a sacrifice is a loss of something costly
00:44:05.766 --> 00:44:09.269
And great.
00:44:09.269 --> 00:44:10.604
I'm giving up something.
00:44:10.604 --> 00:44:12.473
When he said no, no, no, no, no, the hebrew understanding of a
00:44:12.473 --> 00:44:16.176
Sacrifice, the surrender before god, you are gaining, you are
00:44:16.176 --> 00:44:20.981
Coming nearer.
00:44:20.981 --> 00:44:22.316
That when we sacrifice something, when we surrender,
00:44:22.316 --> 00:44:24.485
When we live cruciform, we let go of something, you're letting
00:44:24.485 --> 00:44:28.822
Go of the thing that's in the way of letting you draw closer,
00:44:28.822 --> 00:44:33.527
Nearer to jesus himself.
00:44:33.527 --> 00:44:35.662
Which is an upside-down way of thinking.
00:44:35.662 --> 00:44:38.332
It's a gift, it is removing, letting go of something,
00:44:38.332 --> 00:44:41.969
Removing something that is in the way of you drawing closer
00:44:41.969 --> 00:44:46.140
To jesus.
00:44:46.140 --> 00:44:47.474
Which is we went to shiloh, the place where the temple was, the
00:44:47.474 --> 00:44:53.547
Tabernacle was for 360-some years, where hannah went
00:44:53.547 --> 00:44:57.618
And prayed.
00:44:57.618 --> 00:44:58.986
She came with her sacrifice.
00:44:58.986 --> 00:45:01.355
But then what does she do?
00:45:01.355 --> 00:45:02.689
After she has given her little baby, she returns that baby back
00:45:02.689 --> 00:45:07.694
To the lord.
00:45:07.694 --> 00:45:09.062
So can we say, lord, i am willing to surrender and give up
00:45:09.062 --> 00:45:11.932
Everything, even that which i prayed the most for because i
00:45:11.932 --> 00:45:15.669
Want to draw closer to you.
00:45:15.669 --> 00:45:17.971
Because he is the love that we're actually desperately
00:45:17.971 --> 00:45:20.340
Looking for.
00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:21.675
Sheila: you know, it's interesting.
00:45:21.675 --> 00:45:23.043
I used to belong to this thing called the christian endeavor
00:45:23.043 --> 00:45:25.145
In scotland.
00:45:25.145 --> 00:45:26.480
I would go every thursday night and we'd learn scriptures and
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:28.282
Kind of tuck them deep into our hearts.
00:45:28.282 --> 00:45:30.250
And one of the first ones i learned obviously was easy.
00:45:30.250 --> 00:45:32.452
It was psalm 46:10, "be still and know that i am god."
00:45:32.452 --> 00:45:36.190
But that hebrew understanding of what be still is, is let go.
00:45:36.190 --> 00:45:41.628
Ann: surrender.
00:45:41.628 --> 00:45:42.963
Sheila: open hand.
00:45:42.963 --> 00:45:44.331
Ann: open hands, and we often say, well, jesus's last words on
00:45:44.331 --> 00:45:46.600
The cross are "it is finished."
00:45:46.600 --> 00:45:47.968
Well, no, his last words are, "into your hands i surrender.
00:45:47.968 --> 00:45:51.572
I submit my spirit," which is again that posture of
00:45:51.572 --> 00:45:54.842
Open-handedness, that posture of cruciform, that posture of
00:45:54.842 --> 00:45:58.812
Letting go.
00:45:58.812 --> 00:46:00.180
So i think lots of times we feel exhausted and barely holding on
00:46:00.180 --> 00:46:04.051
Because we're like this, we're tight-fisted and gripping,
00:46:04.051 --> 00:46:07.788
Controlling our lives, trying to make it happen.
00:46:07.788 --> 00:46:10.057
Being still and letting go, this letting go of control, and
00:46:10.057 --> 00:46:15.162
Letting god deliver us.
00:46:15.162 --> 00:46:17.264
This posture of being cruciform is what transforms everything.
00:46:17.264 --> 00:46:22.302
So can you pray right where you are into your hands, lord, i
00:46:22.302 --> 00:46:25.405
Commit the thing that we're holding on to.
00:46:25.405 --> 00:46:27.541
And in that space god delivers us into far more joy than we
00:46:27.541 --> 00:46:30.577
Could possibly imagine.
00:46:30.577 --> 00:46:32.246
Sheila: one of the things i've been doing recently is just
00:46:32.246 --> 00:46:33.914
Reading through the gospels, just start at the beginning
00:46:33.914 --> 00:46:36.416
Going all the way through and reading through and through.
00:46:36.416 --> 00:46:38.118
And then i'll look at where we're at in the contemporary
00:46:38.118 --> 00:46:40.721
Church where we've made celebrities of certain people
00:46:40.721 --> 00:46:44.057
And this culture that's like, you know, how many followers do
00:46:44.057 --> 00:46:47.094
You have and i'm thinking how on earth did we get to that place?
00:46:47.094 --> 00:46:50.597
And you talk about this in this book, "loved to life" is jesus
00:46:50.597 --> 00:46:55.335
Getting down and washing the dusty, dirty feet of his
00:46:55.335 --> 00:46:59.239
Disciples, showing us this is what it looks like.
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:02.509
Ann: can we be people of the towel?
00:47:02.509 --> 00:47:04.611
Sheila: i loved you called the people of the towel.
00:47:04.611 --> 00:47:06.246
Ann: yes, can we be the kind of people christianity isn't about
00:47:06.246 --> 00:47:10.617
Striving up some ladder.
00:47:10.617 --> 00:47:11.952
It's about downward mobility.
00:47:11.952 --> 00:47:14.288
Success is the faithfulness of going lower.
00:47:14.288 --> 00:47:17.324
And that's what jesus does, he actually when he goes ahead and
00:47:17.324 --> 00:47:20.193
He washes the feet of his disciples, he's incarnating,
00:47:20.193 --> 00:47:24.498
He's embodying, he's showing us this is what it looks like to
00:47:24.498 --> 00:47:28.602
Live a christian life, to act out this over and over and
00:47:28.602 --> 00:47:33.807
Over again.
00:47:33.807 --> 00:47:35.142
So what does that look like?
00:47:35.142 --> 00:47:36.510
I think in this particular cultural moment what would it
00:47:36.510 --> 00:47:38.912
Look like to be the people of the towel and to actually serve
00:47:38.912 --> 00:47:42.316
Our neighbor, serve the person across the street, serve the
00:47:42.316 --> 00:47:44.985
Person across the aisle who sees the world very differently
00:47:44.985 --> 00:47:48.989
Than us.
00:47:48.989 --> 00:47:50.357
It might not look like carrying a bowl across the aisle and
00:47:50.357 --> 00:47:52.926
Washing their feet.
00:47:52.926 --> 00:47:54.294
But what would be surprising to them, they're like, oh, i didn't
00:47:54.294 --> 00:47:57.331
Expect that you would love me like that because love is not
00:47:57.331 --> 00:48:01.068
Agreeing with someone, love is about sacrificing for someone.
00:48:01.068 --> 00:48:05.839
Sheila: that's huge.
00:48:05.839 --> 00:48:07.207
Ann: it really is because jesus is love himself.
00:48:07.207 --> 00:48:09.710
And how does he define love?
00:48:09.710 --> 00:48:11.311
Love is to lay your life down for your brother.
00:48:11.311 --> 00:48:14.281
So what can you go ahead and do is say i may not agree with you,
00:48:14.281 --> 00:48:17.150
But i will sacrifice for you.
00:48:17.150 --> 00:48:18.819
I will corban, surrender something so that i can move
00:48:18.819 --> 00:48:22.055
Closer to you.
00:48:22.055 --> 00:48:23.423
I will live a cruciform life so that you get to experience more
00:48:23.423 --> 00:48:25.692
About the love of jesus.
00:48:25.692 --> 00:48:27.361
Sheila: over the last few weeks, every morning i go out with my
00:48:27.361 --> 00:48:31.031
Wee dog, maggie and we walk around the lake.
00:48:31.031 --> 00:48:33.266
And i always think of it as like way back in the beginning with
00:48:33.266 --> 00:48:36.870
Adam and eve when they would walk with the lord in the still
00:48:36.870 --> 00:48:38.872
Of the day.
00:48:38.872 --> 00:48:40.207
And so i'll walk out the front door and i'll say, lord, this is
00:48:40.207 --> 00:48:42.242
Our walk.
00:48:42.242 --> 00:48:43.577
And the one thing i've been asking the lord recently is wash
00:48:43.577 --> 00:48:47.314
My eyes again, you know?
00:48:47.314 --> 00:48:49.182
I don't wanna just see people as shapes, wash my eyes again.
00:48:49.182 --> 00:48:51.852
And the thing that keeps coming back to me over and over is him
00:48:51.852 --> 00:48:55.055
Seeing the one.
00:48:55.055 --> 00:48:56.823
See the one.
00:48:56.823 --> 00:48:59.226
Don't just see a crowd if you're going to speak to someone, you
00:48:59.226 --> 00:49:01.528
See a bunch of people, don't just see that.
00:49:01.528 --> 00:49:03.096
See the one.
00:49:03.096 --> 00:49:04.431
Ask me every day for eyes to see the one.
00:49:04.431 --> 00:49:06.833
And honestly that has made major changes in my life.
00:49:06.833 --> 00:49:11.104
And the privilege of being part of like even a silly thing.
00:49:11.104 --> 00:49:15.175
I had somebody had given me $100 for something and for some
00:49:15.175 --> 00:49:18.845
Reason i felt i shouldn't do anything, i should just keep it
00:49:18.845 --> 00:49:21.348
In my pocket.
00:49:21.348 --> 00:49:22.682
And you know, i asked the lord and then one day i'm literally
00:49:22.682 --> 00:49:26.953
Walking somewhere and i see this woman and she's carrying trash
00:49:26.953 --> 00:49:30.957
And the lord says the one.
00:49:30.957 --> 00:49:33.226
And so i was thinking, lord, she's gonna think i'm nuts.
00:49:33.226 --> 00:49:36.329
But so i said to her, hey, i just wanna say that jesus loves
00:49:36.329 --> 00:49:40.000
You and he sees you, and i gave her that.
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.469
She burst into tears and hugged me, and i have no idea what god
00:49:42.469 --> 00:49:46.907
Was doing in her life, but he did.
00:49:46.907 --> 00:49:48.542
Ann: yes, yes, when you think about the man born blind, and
00:49:48.542 --> 00:49:53.980
How does jesus go ahead?
00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:55.348
I've been praying this, lord, put mud on my eyes, wash my eyes
00:49:55.348 --> 00:49:57.984
So that i could see the way you see the world.
00:49:57.984 --> 00:50:01.488
And they all asked, you know, why was this man born blind?
00:50:01.488 --> 00:50:04.991
Well, "he was born blind so that."
00:50:04.991 --> 00:50:07.761
Those two words, "so that" god would be glorified.
00:50:07.761 --> 00:50:11.465
Lord, can you go ahead and wash my eyes so that i can see the
00:50:11.465 --> 00:50:14.401
One and then i could show up and look at the thing that's broken
00:50:14.401 --> 00:50:18.004
In my life and this could be used so that you would be
00:50:18.004 --> 00:50:21.241
Glorified and that person would know that they're not alone in
00:50:21.241 --> 00:50:24.211
Their own brokenhearted story.
00:50:24.211 --> 00:50:26.279
Sheila: okay, ann, we've only got a few minutes left, maybe
00:50:26.279 --> 00:50:28.148
Five minutes left.
00:50:28.148 --> 00:50:29.516
I'm wondering, would you talk to our audience?
00:50:29.516 --> 00:50:31.518
Because there's just such a special grace and giftedness
00:50:31.518 --> 00:50:35.055
That god has placed on your life, and i'd love you just to
00:50:35.055 --> 00:50:37.924
Take a few minutes.
00:50:37.924 --> 00:50:39.259
Ann: yeah, i think i do keep going back.
00:50:39.259 --> 00:50:40.927
I think there's so much tenderness, so much suffering,
00:50:40.927 --> 00:50:44.064
So much pain.
00:50:44.064 --> 00:50:45.432
I do keep going back to the man born blind.
00:50:45.432 --> 00:50:48.034
And with our questions we want to ask why, why did this happen?
00:50:48.034 --> 00:50:52.639
In the midst of our pain and suffering.
00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:54.841
And i think, can we go ahead and see those two words "so that."
00:50:54.841 --> 00:50:59.179
So that god can be glorified.
00:50:59.179 --> 00:51:01.515
I actually have a practice, sometimes i'll write down the
00:51:01.515 --> 00:51:03.650
Things that i'm the most ashamed of on my hand when i was like,
00:51:03.650 --> 00:51:06.520
No, no, these are the things that the lord is using for him
00:51:06.520 --> 00:51:09.589
To be glorified.
00:51:09.589 --> 00:51:10.957
I'll write on top of it so that.
00:51:10.957 --> 00:51:12.392
So can you think about, even write it down in a journal.
00:51:12.392 --> 00:51:14.561
These were the most painful parts of my life and write over
00:51:14.561 --> 00:51:16.563
Top of that "so that" god would be glorified.
00:51:16.563 --> 00:51:19.699
And can i shift my questions away from why was this man
00:51:19.699 --> 00:51:23.503
Born blind?
00:51:23.503 --> 00:51:24.871
Why did this terrible thing happen?
00:51:24.871 --> 00:51:26.206
Why is there suffering?
00:51:26.206 --> 00:51:27.574
Can i shift it to different questions to who?
00:51:27.574 --> 00:51:29.809
Who is sovereign over this?
00:51:29.809 --> 00:51:32.045
The one who is love and who is for me.
00:51:32.045 --> 00:51:34.748
Can i shift the question from why did this happen to what?
00:51:34.748 --> 00:51:38.652
What way will i bear this?
00:51:38.652 --> 00:51:40.620
How will i go ahead and bear this suffering?
00:51:40.620 --> 00:51:43.356
Can i shift the question from why did this happen to where?
00:51:43.356 --> 00:51:46.526
Where am i in proximity, and relationship, and closeness to
00:51:46.526 --> 00:51:51.097
Jesus through this suffering?
00:51:51.097 --> 00:51:53.600
We want to ask why and jesus says no, where, where are you?
00:51:53.600 --> 00:51:56.670
Come closer to me.
00:51:56.670 --> 00:51:58.038
And finally, instead of asking why the suffering and pain, can
00:51:58.038 --> 00:52:01.208
I shift the question to the how?
00:52:01.208 --> 00:52:03.577
How will i live so that jesus is glorified?
00:52:03.577 --> 00:52:08.448
So i think in the midst of our own we're all walking valleys,
00:52:08.448 --> 00:52:12.252
We're all walking difficult roads, and to see that every
00:52:12.252 --> 00:52:15.322
Valley is but the valley of his cupped hands and when i shift my
00:52:15.322 --> 00:52:18.692
Questions away from the why, to the who, and the what, and the
00:52:18.692 --> 00:52:23.430
Where, and the how will i live so that jesus is glorified.
00:52:23.430 --> 00:52:27.834
Sheila: would you pray for our audience?
00:52:27.834 --> 00:52:29.169
Ann: oh, i would love nothing more.
00:52:29.169 --> 00:52:31.605
Abba father, you know, you know where every single person is
00:52:31.605 --> 00:52:35.041
Sitting as they've been tuning in here, lord.
00:52:35.041 --> 00:52:38.278
And we pray that their hearts might be attuned to your heart
00:52:38.278 --> 00:52:41.581
For them and how passionately you love them, lord.
00:52:41.581 --> 00:52:45.919
That you are the lifter of their chin, that you are the one who
00:52:45.919 --> 00:52:49.489
Weeps with us and catches every tear in your bottle, lord, and
00:52:49.489 --> 00:52:54.594
That you will take those tears and waste nothing and pour out
00:52:54.594 --> 00:52:57.764
Those tears like a resurrection and a watering for new growth in
00:52:57.764 --> 00:53:03.236
The parched places in our lives.
00:53:03.236 --> 00:53:05.805
So lord, you know the unspoken broken we have and that we
00:53:05.805 --> 00:53:08.908
Right now and just in that posture of being cruciform that
00:53:08.908 --> 00:53:12.078
We might be still and open our hands and let go and say into
00:53:12.078 --> 00:53:16.549
Your hands, lord, we entrust this, fill in the blank, this
00:53:16.549 --> 00:53:20.053
Hard story, lord, this place that is so difficult we entrust
00:53:20.053 --> 00:53:23.189
It into your scarred hands that went to the cross and stretched
00:53:23.189 --> 00:53:28.595
Your arms out so wide that you said, i love you this much.
00:53:28.595 --> 00:53:32.632
We can entrust it to you who is love himself, because you are
00:53:32.632 --> 00:53:37.170
Redeeming all things for good, lord, and in your time and in
00:53:37.170 --> 00:53:41.107
Your way.
00:53:41.107 --> 00:53:42.475
We thank you, lord, that our identity is that we are the ones
00:53:42.475 --> 00:53:46.946
Whom you've loved, loved to death and back to the realest
00:53:46.946 --> 00:53:51.184
Life in yourself.
00:53:51.184 --> 00:53:53.620
Thank you, lord for being our lifter and the lover of our
00:53:53.620 --> 00:53:56.489
Souls and we go ahead and we say loss does not mean that you
00:53:56.489 --> 00:53:59.793
Don't love us, but you call us your beloved.
00:53:59.793 --> 00:54:03.530
We pray all of these things in the name of jesus, the only one
00:54:03.530 --> 00:54:07.200
Who's ever loved us to death and back to the realest life.
00:54:07.200 --> 00:54:10.437
Ann: amen. sheila: amen.
00:54:10.437 --> 00:54:12.706
That is absolutely beautiful. ann's book is "loved to life."
00:54:12.706 --> 00:54:16.676
You will love this book.
00:54:16.676 --> 00:54:18.712
There's so much richness and giftedness, and ann i just wanna
00:54:18.712 --> 00:54:22.449
Thank you.
00:54:22.449 --> 00:54:23.783
I mean, it's still you will live way up in canada and you have to
00:54:23.783 --> 00:54:25.952
Go through all sorts of things.
00:54:25.952 --> 00:54:27.320
Ann: i will say it again anytime, anytime you all get to
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.323
Be in the room with sheila walsh, your soul is the richer
00:54:30.323 --> 00:54:34.127
For it because jesus exudes from your every word.
00:54:34.127 --> 00:54:37.931
I love you to the moon and back.
00:54:37.931 --> 00:54:39.766
Sheila: ann, it's the same for me.
00:54:39.766 --> 00:54:41.101
Go hug your sheep for me.
00:54:41.101 --> 00:54:42.836
Ann: you and i, and every time to hug the sheep to know that we
00:54:42.836 --> 00:54:45.839
Are the ones whom jesus carries like little lambs all the
00:54:45.839 --> 00:54:49.142
Way home.
00:54:49.142 --> 00:54:50.744
Sheila: thank you so much for being with us today and that is
00:54:50.744 --> 00:54:53.947
The bottom line, that's the message of tbn.
00:54:53.947 --> 00:54:56.883
You are loved by a god who would not live without you.
00:54:56.883 --> 00:55:00.019
So on behalf of matt and laurie and all the people you don't see
00:55:00.019 --> 00:55:03.490
In front of the camera because there's a lot of us, but we're
00:55:03.490 --> 00:55:06.426
Here for the same reason to let you know you're seen, you are
00:55:06.426 --> 00:55:10.130
Known, and you are loved, and we will talk to you next time.
00:55:10.130 --> 00:55:14.300
God bless you all.
00:55:14.300 --> 00:55:16.035
♪♪♪
00:55:16.035 --> 00:55:30.010

Ann Voskamp: Healing Through Resurrection Power | Praise

April 22, 2025 | 55:30

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