Ann Voskamp: Healing Through Resurrection Power | Praise

April 22, 2025 | 55:30

Ann Voskamp shares her journey of discovering the depth of God's love and the transformative power of gratitude. Ann opens up about her own struggles and how she found healing and joy through embracing the cruciform life of following Jesus. Through personal anecdotes and insights from the Gospel of John, Ann encourages viewers to embrace their brokenness and find hope in the love of Christ.

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Praise | Ann Voskamp: Healing Through Resurrection Power | Praise | April 22, 2025
  • ...
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  • Male announcer: coming up tonight on "praise."
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  • Ann voskamp: to live a life that follows jesus, what does it mean
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  • To live a life of discipleship?
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  • It involves being given, it involves surrender.
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  • Christianity takes the posture of cruciformity, and i don't
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  • Think there's any transformation in our lives apart from
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  • Living cruciformation.
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  • It has to look like a cross.
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  • ♪♪♪
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  • Male announcer: tonight on "praise," from dallas, best
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  • Selling canadian author and christian blogger ann voskamp.
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  • And now your host sheila walsh.
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  • Sheila walsh: let me ask you a question.
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  • Do you feel as if you're kind of survival mode, like just kind of
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  • Getting through one more day, that you're just holding on?
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  • And maybe you look back in times when it felt like the lord was
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  • So close and now you feel like, lord, i'm just going through
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  • The motions.
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  • I am so, so, so glad that you're joining us tonight because my
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  • Guest has written this fantastic new book, but more than that,
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  • She lives this life that speaks volumes about the love of god.
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  • In fact, let me just read a quote from her book.
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  • The book is called "loved to life."
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  • As you know, my darling guest is ann voskamp, but this sort
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  • Of says.
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  • "you don't have to wait for a perfect life to have a happy
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  • Life because jesus already gave you his perfect life and he is
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  • All the perfection you will ever need."
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  • You know, ann, when i read that, i remember thinking i wish i'd
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  • Read that 30 years ago.
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  • Because i spent so much of my life trying to pursue perfection
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  • Because i thought that was what jesus wanted.
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  • Ann: yes, not only do i still resonate with that, sheila, i
  • 00:01:58.141 --> 00:02:01.678
  • Was like i can't be happy till i arrive at perfection.
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  • Whether it be in my home, my personal life and my
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  • Relationships, that it was wrong actually to be happy if you
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  • Hadn't arrived at perfection yet.
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  • And then to realize no, no, no, i can be happy now because jesus
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  • Is my perfection and all the perfection i need was the
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  • Complete--i remember my husband and i having a conversation
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  • About it at the kitchen sink.
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  • And that was your total paradigm shift for like oh, wait, i
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  • Already have a perfect life in christ.
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  • He's all the perfection i need.
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  • Happiness can meet me even in a place of brokenness because
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  • Christ's perfectness covers all of that.
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  • Sheila: i honestly think that's revolutionary news to a bunch of
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  • Our family who are watching.
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  • Ann: yes, it was for me and even after i'd walked with the lord
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  • For a long time that we can cerebrally understand something
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  • And then sometimes, oh wait, that drops down to a part of our
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  • Heart that needs redeeming.
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  • Sheila: yeah, so let me tell you about the very first time
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  • That i heard you speak.
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  • Ann: oh, dear.
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  • Sheila: no, no, no, no, it was back during the years when i was
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  • Part of the women of faith team.
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  • And we invited you to come in and speak and i wanted to stand
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  • At the side of the stage.
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  • I wanted to be as close to you as i could without being awkward
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  • Because i wanted to listen.
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  • And honestly, at first, when you started speaking i thought, this
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  • Is different.
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  • There was something about the way you delivered your message,
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  • The way that you almost like opened up your heart and let us
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  • See inside, it felt like, i almost felt like, oh i should
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  • Back off a little here, this is very intimate.
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  • And by the end of it, i wrote one thing in my notebook, this
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  • Is holy ground.
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  • And that's how i felt.
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  • So i want for our viewers who don't know you, because we've a
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  • Lot of new people who are watching tbn now.
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  • Would you tell us just a little of your own story because i'm
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  • Sure they like me want to know how did you get to this place?
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  • Ann: it's a question i ask a lot, sheila.
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  • First of all, it is such a joy and a grace and a gift to be in
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  • Your presence truly.
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  • Every room that has sheila walsh in it, we are all the richer.
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  • So just thank you.
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  • I remember being, i think that's back in 2012 at women of faith,
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  • Yeah, exactly, how did i end up there?
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  • I went through university to be an elementary school teacher is
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  • Really what i wanted to be.
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  • And my husband and i got married.
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  • I'm a 7th generation farmer, his family too goes back farming as
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  • Far as i wanted to be a farmer, his wife, and i wanted to teach
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  • Little kids.
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  • So we got married at the end of my second year of university.
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  • And then i was expecting almost shortly thereafter, so i took a
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  • Pause of a one-year sabbatical from my degree in education.
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  • Came home and caleb was born and i was like, oh i can't leave
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  • This little baby.
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  • So then i transferred my degree and continued working on a
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  • Concurrent degree in child psychology and education
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  • Distance education.
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  • But really, i loved words, i loved the word, i loved writing,
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  • And i loved reading.
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  • So i really came to this space through, at the end of the day
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  • We ended up having six kids in ten years.
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  • So there's a lot of little kids.
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  • I get up every day and i wash the dishes, and do the laundry,
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  • And clean the house, and i get up and i do it all
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  • Again tomorrow.
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  • At the end of the day after i tuck the babies into bed, if i
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  • Could sit down and write out the story of the day, where i saw
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  • God's hand moving, i called it canning up the summer of my life
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  • For the winter of my life.
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  • That i wanted a record.
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  • I wanted a record of our days, just our everyday days.
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  • But when i would write i could connect dots.
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  • Look at god was doing this and god's doing that, so i just
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  • Started to write an online journal with no, i mean it was
  • 00:05:54.710 --> 00:05:57.480
  • An online journal just so that i could search it.
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  • But i had no comments or anything and somebody, two
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  • Different authors found me writing and they reached out to
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  • Their agent and said you should talk to this lady, she's writing
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  • A lot about gratitude.
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  • So i was writing about how gratitude was revolutionizing
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  • My life.
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  • I grew up with a lot of fear.
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  • My first memory is my 18-month-old baby sister, was
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  • Killed in front of my mother and i were washing dishes in the
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  • Farmhouse and i was standing on a chair and a service truck came
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  • Into the yard and didn't see her.
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  • And when you're four years old and you see something so
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  • Traumatic, the world feels like a really scary place.
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  • So by the time i was in grade 2 and i was seven years old, i had
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  • Ulcers and was hospitalized and then by teen i was cutting.
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  • I didn't know where to take all of that pain at all.
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  • And the panic that something terrible could befall you at
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  • Any moment.
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  • But you can't simultaneously feel fear and gratitude at the
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  • Same time.
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  • So starting to pick up a pen and starting to write down the
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  • Things that i was grateful for radically transformed my life.
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  • I started to count all the ways god loves me, and perfect love
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  • Casts out all fear.
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  • So i wrote a book about how writing down 1,000 gifts changed
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  • My life, and i think that's where you and i got to
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  • Cross paths.
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  • Sheila: yeah, one of the things i find fascinating about your
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  • Writing, i can never read your books quickly.
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  • There are some books i can read quickly and still grab hold of
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  • The central message.
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  • Yours i can't, i have to pause, constantly i have to pause
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  • Because you make me think.
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  • You have this unique gift to be able to embrace the reality that
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  • Life is hard and people are suffering and the greatness of
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  • Jesus and the promise of his.
  • 00:07:38.981 --> 00:07:42.418
  • How did you come into a personal relationship with jesus?
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  • Ann: i grew up in a non-christian home, and after my
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  • Sister was killed it was devastating for my parents.
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  • But a neighboring farmer's wife, two dutch women who had thick
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  • Dutch accents, who had emigrated, who had grade 6,
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  • Grade 8 education but loved jesus.
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  • They started a good news bible club, child evangelism
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  • Fellowship and inviting all the little neighbor kids from all
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  • The farms.
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  • And i heard about the saving hope of jesus and gave my life
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  • To him.
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  • There was a place then to start to bring the pain to someone.
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  • I think the reality is sometimes when we think about gratitude we
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  • Can think of with a pollyanna kind of, that everything is
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  • Naive and you're just not sophisticated enough to realize
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  • That the world is really difficult.
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  • But i think when we really understand that in the presence
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  • Of jesus we can hold space for both deep loss, and lament, and
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  • Grief, and at the same time the goodness of god, the grace of
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  • God, the gifts of god.
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  • And i believe when we live a wholehearted life those two
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  • Chambers of our heart is the pulsing through of i can
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  • Honestly lament before the lord and at the same time god is
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  • Redeeming all things and working all things together for good.
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  • So i think if we're gonna live an authentic life, we make space
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  • For the pain and yet can we turn the pain into poetry, into
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  • Purpose, into experiencing the presence of god in the midst of
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  • The pain.
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  • Sheila: i told someone that i was gonna have the privilege of
  • 00:09:22.018 --> 00:09:24.053
  • Interviewing you.
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  • She said, ask ann what she means by living a cruciform life.
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  • Ann: oh, it's one of my most favorite words.
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  • Sheila: i know it is.
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  • Ann: cruciform means to live a life, cruciform the word itself
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  • Is formed like a cross, cruci-form.
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  • So i believe that everything jesus actually lives for us
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  • Throughout scripture.
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  • He models what it means to live a cruciform life, and i
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  • Actually, in one of my books, "the broken way," i talk about
  • 00:09:48.778 --> 00:09:51.814
  • What it looks like to live a cruciform life and i draw with a
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  • Pen on my wrist all the time, where i used to have the scars
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  • From cutting.
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  • The cross that vertical beam that goes down, those are all
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  • The blessings of god that come down.
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  • Can i go ahead and give thanks for all of the blessings?
  • 00:10:06.796 --> 00:10:09.498
  • There's always, always, always something to be thankful for in
  • 00:10:09.498 --> 00:10:12.668
  • The midst of our everyday lives.
  • 00:10:12.668 --> 00:10:14.770
  • And then can i live the horizontal beam of that cross,
  • 00:10:14.770 --> 00:10:18.507
  • Take all of the gifts, and live broken and given like bread out
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  • Into the world that those cross beams that are extended.
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  • To live a cruciform life is to live a life that is shaped and
  • 00:10:26.582 --> 00:10:29.919
  • Formed like jesus, a life of humility, a life
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  • Of vulnerability.
  • 00:10:33.489 --> 00:10:34.824
  • That posture is a posture of not protecting oneself or turning in
  • 00:10:34.824 --> 00:10:38.561
  • On oneself, but living outreach both towards god and
  • 00:10:38.561 --> 00:10:42.832
  • Towards people.
  • 00:10:42.832 --> 00:10:44.166
  • I think if we have what does it mean to live a life that
  • 00:10:44.166 --> 00:10:48.137
  • Follows jesus?
  • 00:10:48.137 --> 00:10:49.505
  • What does it mean to live a life of discipleship?
  • 00:10:49.505 --> 00:10:51.307
  • It looks like a cruciform life.
  • 00:10:51.307 --> 00:10:54.176
  • Cruciform so it involves being vulnerable, it involves being
  • 00:10:54.176 --> 00:10:59.014
  • Given, it involves surrender.
  • 00:10:59.014 --> 00:11:01.150
  • And what does it look like to live into that posture
  • 00:11:01.150 --> 00:11:03.185
  • Of surrender?
  • 00:11:03.185 --> 00:11:04.520
  • So i think when we think about christian, christianity takes
  • 00:11:04.520 --> 00:11:07.923
  • The posture of cruciformity and i don't think there's any
  • 00:11:07.923 --> 00:11:11.093
  • Transformation in our lives apart from
  • 00:11:11.093 --> 00:11:13.896
  • Living cruciformation.
  • 00:11:13.896 --> 00:11:15.598
  • It has to look like a cross.
  • 00:11:15.598 --> 00:11:17.666
  • Sheila: it's so interesting i got a note on social media from
  • 00:11:17.666 --> 00:11:21.303
  • Someone and they wanted to know why i had tattoos on my wrists.
  • 00:11:21.303 --> 00:11:24.540
  • Because on one wrist i have "the cross equals love" and another
  • 00:11:24.540 --> 00:11:27.576
  • Wrist we have the two words that my mother lived by "yes, lord."
  • 00:11:27.576 --> 00:11:32.248
  • And i took her question seriously, it wasn't somebody
  • 00:11:32.248 --> 00:11:35.151
  • Just kind of throwing that.
  • 00:11:35.151 --> 00:11:36.752
  • And i told her that, you know, that i have a diagnosis of
  • 00:11:36.752 --> 00:11:40.122
  • Clinical depression, but that in the worst moments before i was
  • 00:11:40.122 --> 00:11:44.426
  • Able to find a a better path, that that's where i felt i would
  • 00:11:44.426 --> 00:11:48.264
  • End my life.
  • 00:11:48.264 --> 00:11:49.632
  • So now i raise my arms and worship, that that's what it's
  • 00:11:49.632 --> 00:11:52.401
  • All about.
  • 00:11:52.401 --> 00:11:53.736
  • It's like remembering the darkest places, when christ
  • 00:11:53.736 --> 00:11:55.905
  • Shines light into the darkest places, it shifts everything.
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  • Ann: yes having that cross over where those scars are on my
  • 00:12:03.245 --> 00:12:05.948
  • Hand, that he covers all of that, that cross is like a soul
  • 00:12:05.948 --> 00:12:09.819
  • Compass for me to reorient myself again.
  • 00:12:09.819 --> 00:12:12.621
  • And i only have one other tattoo, i have "eucharisteo"
  • 00:12:12.621 --> 00:12:15.191
  • Underneath the cross, which is the greek word for living,
  • 00:12:15.191 --> 00:12:17.526
  • Living a life of gratitude.
  • 00:12:17.526 --> 00:12:19.829
  • Because i hope in my old age if i forget everything else i can
  • 00:12:19.829 --> 00:12:22.865
  • Look down and say, what can i be grateful for in this moment?
  • 00:12:22.865 --> 00:12:26.001
  • And if i forget everything, i can be grateful for the cross
  • 00:12:26.001 --> 00:12:28.204
  • Of christ.
  • 00:12:28.204 --> 00:12:29.538
  • Sheila: oh wow.
  • 00:12:29.538 --> 00:12:30.906
  • So this incredible new book, i was sitting in bed last night
  • 00:12:30.906 --> 00:12:34.844
  • Reading through it.
  • 00:12:34.844 --> 00:12:36.178
  • Because as you've done it like a devotional, but what i found
  • 00:12:36.178 --> 00:12:39.882
  • Interesting was i downloaded the kindle version as well because i
  • 00:12:39.882 --> 00:12:43.319
  • Wanted to see the passages that people had underlined.
  • 00:12:43.319 --> 00:12:45.888
  • And i didn't even realize you could do that before, it'll tell
  • 00:12:45.888 --> 00:12:48.157
  • You like 500 people underlined this one line.
  • 00:12:48.157 --> 00:12:51.961
  • And it was really significant, but i wondered, this is
  • 00:12:51.961 --> 00:12:54.964
  • Basically a walk through john's gospel.
  • 00:12:54.964 --> 00:12:57.433
  • What was the genesis of this for you?
  • 00:12:57.433 --> 00:13:04.306
  • Ann: we had those six babies in ten years, and we had a
  • 00:13:04.306 --> 00:13:08.677
  • Tradition as a family that during the month of december for
  • 00:13:08.677 --> 00:13:11.881
  • Advent we would always start the christmas story back in genesis.
  • 00:13:11.881 --> 00:13:16.218
  • And we would look at from the beginning of time, jesus has
  • 00:13:16.218 --> 00:13:19.655
  • Been coming in all of the family tree of god and all of the
  • 00:13:19.655 --> 00:13:22.524
  • Messed up families.
  • 00:13:22.524 --> 00:13:23.926
  • Look at how god is redeeming everything.
  • 00:13:23.926 --> 00:13:25.461
  • And out of the cut-off stump of jesse there's this new shoot
  • 00:13:25.461 --> 00:13:28.931
  • That arises, which is the messiah.
  • 00:13:28.931 --> 00:13:30.633
  • So when we got to december 25th, the christmas tree, we would
  • 00:13:30.633 --> 00:13:33.869
  • Understand the family tree of god and how we've been
  • 00:13:33.869 --> 00:13:36.005
  • Grafted in.
  • 00:13:36.005 --> 00:13:37.373
  • So our kids would always get so excited that in december was
  • 00:13:37.373 --> 00:13:39.642
  • Always the month where we would go through the whole arc of the
  • 00:13:39.642 --> 00:13:41.844
  • Old testament, so that when jesus was born, we would
  • 00:13:41.844 --> 00:13:44.647
  • Understand who the king of kings really is.
  • 00:13:44.647 --> 00:13:47.383
  • Well then i realized, so this book has been hundreds of
  • 00:13:47.383 --> 00:13:49.785
  • Thousands of copies have gone out into the world.
  • 00:13:49.785 --> 00:13:51.220
  • It was a new york times bestseller book.
  • 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:52.922
  • It's been out there for at least ten years now.
  • 00:13:52.922 --> 00:13:54.857
  • The people have gone through advent, but i realized i have
  • 00:13:54.857 --> 00:13:57.459
  • Never taken you from the manger to the cross, and to the
  • 00:13:57.459 --> 00:14:02.765
  • Empty tomb.
  • 00:14:02.765 --> 00:14:04.133
  • Discipleship and pilgrimage with jesus.
  • 00:14:04.133 --> 00:14:06.735
  • If i believe that transformation doesn't happen apart from a life
  • 00:14:06.735 --> 00:14:11.106
  • Of cruciformation, how do we live a cruciform life?
  • 00:14:11.106 --> 00:14:13.409
  • We need proximity with jesus to actually pilgrimage with jesus.
  • 00:14:13.409 --> 00:14:19.415
  • And i think culturally we can get really excited about
  • 00:14:19.415 --> 00:14:22.484
  • Christmas, but the high point of our lives is that tree at
  • 00:14:22.484 --> 00:14:30.225
  • Calvary and the empty tomb on resurrection sunday.
  • 00:14:30.225 --> 00:14:34.663
  • So how can we have a cultural shift that we are anticipating
  • 00:14:34.663 --> 00:14:39.568
  • Through lent, 40 days of really preparing our hearts for the
  • 00:14:39.568 --> 00:14:45.341
  • Meaningfulness that's going to happen at easter?
  • 00:14:45.341 --> 00:14:47.910
  • So while the book isn't meant just for lent, it is a 40-day
  • 00:14:47.910 --> 00:14:51.547
  • Pilgrimage that can take you through lent and actually to
  • 00:14:51.547 --> 00:14:54.450
  • Pilgrimage with jesus right where you are.
  • 00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:56.852
  • You don't have to get on a plane and go to the holy land.
  • 00:14:56.852 --> 00:14:58.954
  • You can have a holy experience here going through the book of
  • 00:14:58.954 --> 00:15:01.523
  • John and encountering jesus in a fresh way.
  • 00:15:01.523 --> 00:15:05.060
  • They can touch you in your everyday places that is
  • 00:15:05.060 --> 00:15:07.429
  • Truly transformational.
  • 00:15:07.429 --> 00:15:08.831
  • Sheila: if you're just joining us, welcome.
  • 00:15:08.831 --> 00:15:11.734
  • My guest tonight, ann voskamp, and this book is called "loved
  • 00:15:11.734 --> 00:15:15.037
  • To life: a 40-day pilgrimage with love himself that will
  • 00:15:15.037 --> 00:15:19.775
  • Change your life."
  • 00:15:19.775 --> 00:15:22.311
  • One of the things i wanted to ask you about is, you highlight
  • 00:15:22.311 --> 00:15:25.914
  • Different people through this story.
  • 00:15:25.914 --> 00:15:29.385
  • When you studied, for example, like the life of john the
  • 00:15:29.385 --> 00:15:31.787
  • Baptist, what stood out to you in that story as you meditated
  • 00:15:31.787 --> 00:15:37.159
  • On how he lived?
  • 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:38.827
  • Ann: i think it what's so--first of all, when we open up
  • 00:15:38.827 --> 00:15:43.732
  • Scripture and when we sit, these are real people.
  • 00:15:43.732 --> 00:15:46.869
  • Sheila: yeah.
  • 00:15:46.869 --> 00:15:48.203
  • Ann: they're people who had feelings like we have feelings,
  • 00:15:48.203 --> 00:15:49.671
  • They're conflicted, and discouraged, and trying to find
  • 00:15:49.671 --> 00:15:53.175
  • Their way too.
  • 00:15:53.175 --> 00:15:54.510
  • So in lots of ways when we open up scripture, it's a mirror to
  • 00:15:54.510 --> 00:15:56.779
  • Our own humanity in all kinds of ways too.
  • 00:15:56.779 --> 00:15:59.815
  • John the baptist, he's pointing he becomes a signpost, "prepare
  • 00:15:59.815 --> 00:16:03.986
  • The way of the lord."
  • 00:16:03.986 --> 00:16:05.587
  • What does it look like for us to live a life that doesn't center
  • 00:16:05.587 --> 00:16:08.991
  • Ourselves in the story, but sees ourselves as a sign pointing to
  • 00:16:08.991 --> 00:16:13.529
  • The one who's the way, the truth, the life?
  • 00:16:13.529 --> 00:16:16.398
  • The people that we are rubbing shoulders against in our
  • 00:16:16.398 --> 00:16:18.400
  • Workplaces every day, that we're living next door to, they're all
  • 00:16:18.400 --> 00:16:21.437
  • Looking for a way through in their everyday lives too.
  • 00:16:21.437 --> 00:16:24.440
  • What does it look like for us to be a signpost pointing to
  • 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:29.211
  • The one?
  • 00:16:29.211 --> 00:16:30.546
  • And i would hope that this book when i thought about "loved to
  • 00:16:30.546 --> 00:16:32.548
  • Life," i wanted it to be a kind of book that you could put in a
  • 00:16:32.548 --> 00:16:35.484
  • Care basket for somebody moving in next door.
  • 00:16:35.484 --> 00:16:37.953
  • You could put it into a basket for someone who's sick, so they
  • 00:16:37.953 --> 00:16:40.522
  • Could open up the pages and go, oh look at god is a god who
  • 00:16:40.522 --> 00:16:44.159
  • Isn't just loving.
  • 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:45.961
  • He is love himself, and he loved me so much he went to the cross
  • 00:16:45.961 --> 00:16:50.432
  • To die for me, that they would have this 40-day experience of
  • 00:16:50.432 --> 00:16:53.102
  • Knowing how loved they are.
  • 00:16:53.102 --> 00:16:55.237
  • So the book itself is a lot like what john the baptist was.
  • 00:16:55.237 --> 00:16:57.606
  • What does it look like to be an evangelist to point to jesus?
  • 00:16:57.606 --> 00:17:01.477
  • Sheila: you know, if someone whose had the privilege of
  • 00:17:01.477 --> 00:17:04.079
  • Sitting where i'm sitting right now and looking into your eyes
  • 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.181
  • And saying, you know, ann, i love that you understand all
  • 00:17:06.181 --> 00:17:09.218
  • That, but honestly i feel like i'm just surviving, i'm just
  • 00:17:09.218 --> 00:17:12.654
  • Getting through this.
  • 00:17:12.654 --> 00:17:14.022
  • What would you say to them?
  • 00:17:14.022 --> 00:17:15.357
  • Ann: i think the first words of this book here was like, "you're
  • 00:17:15.357 --> 00:17:17.126
  • Not alone."
  • 00:17:17.126 --> 00:17:18.494
  • I want the person to know you are not alone.
  • 00:17:18.494 --> 00:17:23.098
  • And i also want them to realize they're being given the
  • 00:17:23.098 --> 00:17:26.869
  • Permission to come away even for a couple of moments every day,
  • 00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:31.974
  • To exhale, and to rest in the love of god.
  • 00:17:31.974 --> 00:17:37.446
  • John refers to himself more than five times throughout the gospel
  • 00:17:37.446 --> 00:17:41.984
  • Of john.
  • 00:17:41.984 --> 00:17:43.318
  • He doesn't refer to himself as john, he refers to himself as
  • 00:17:43.318 --> 00:17:45.354
  • The one whom jesus loves.
  • 00:17:45.354 --> 00:17:47.556
  • And oftentimes when i would read that, i'd think, my goodness,
  • 00:17:47.556 --> 00:17:50.192
  • What an arrogant way to kind of frame yourself.
  • 00:17:50.192 --> 00:17:52.361
  • Like, i wanted to say, does he love all of the other
  • 00:17:52.361 --> 00:17:54.930
  • Disciples too?
  • 00:17:54.930 --> 00:17:56.265
  • That's exactly the point though, that was john's identity.
  • 00:17:56.265 --> 00:18:01.303
  • He saw himself as the one whom jesus loves.
  • 00:18:01.303 --> 00:18:04.072
  • This book is an invitation for you not to have to strive for
  • 00:18:04.072 --> 00:18:08.043
  • Perfection or performance.
  • 00:18:08.043 --> 00:18:10.345
  • Can you come away and rest, put your head on jesus's shoulder
  • 00:18:10.345 --> 00:18:15.450
  • And already know you're already seen as beloved.
  • 00:18:15.450 --> 00:18:19.521
  • The pilgrimage, we think of a pilgrimage as trying to get some
  • 00:18:19.521 --> 00:18:24.059
  • Place to arrive at.
  • 00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:26.361
  • The only place you need to arrive at is knowing that you
  • 00:18:26.361 --> 00:18:29.498
  • Are jesus's beloved.
  • 00:18:29.498 --> 00:18:31.333
  • Everything changes when you can--the performance shifts
  • 00:18:31.333 --> 00:18:37.606
  • When you realize i'm not working to be loved, i'm actually
  • 00:18:37.606 --> 00:18:40.742
  • Working out of a place of already being so loved.
  • 00:18:40.742 --> 00:18:43.946
  • I think actually every day we get up and we're striving to get
  • 00:18:43.946 --> 00:18:46.882
  • Through every day because we're trying to prove ourselves.
  • 00:18:46.882 --> 00:18:50.452
  • And the enemy of our souls is constantly saying you're not
  • 00:18:50.452 --> 00:18:53.355
  • Enough, you're not doing enough, you haven't really arrived, and
  • 00:18:53.355 --> 00:18:56.191
  • Got the stamp of approval.
  • 00:18:56.191 --> 00:18:58.393
  • That can all shift when you're, oh, i'm already loved, and then
  • 00:18:58.393 --> 00:19:01.430
  • You actually move into your day from a place of overflow and not
  • 00:19:01.430 --> 00:19:05.267
  • A place of overwhelm.
  • 00:19:05.267 --> 00:19:07.135
  • Sheila: if you're watching tonight and you're in a place
  • 00:19:07.135 --> 00:19:09.171
  • Where it's like, you know what that all sounds really lovely,
  • 00:19:09.171 --> 00:19:11.373
  • Sheila, but if you knew me, if you knew my life, if you knew
  • 00:19:11.373 --> 00:19:15.444
  • Some of the things that i've done, i struggle to be able to
  • 00:19:15.444 --> 00:19:19.214
  • Receive that.
  • 00:19:19.214 --> 00:19:20.549
  • And i wanted to ask you why do you think so many find it hard
  • 00:19:20.549 --> 00:19:24.186
  • To believe that god loves them so much?
  • 00:19:24.186 --> 00:19:28.657
  • Ann: well i think first of all, in the gospel of john, there are
  • 00:19:28.657 --> 00:19:32.794
  • So many people that can resonate with exactly what you said.
  • 00:19:32.794 --> 00:19:35.631
  • The woman caught in adultery and she's dragged out, about to be
  • 00:19:35.631 --> 00:19:39.501
  • Stoned and accused.
  • 00:19:39.501 --> 00:19:41.169
  • The samaritan woman who goes to the well at noon because she
  • 00:19:41.169 --> 00:19:44.706
  • Doesn't go with the other women early in the morning because she
  • 00:19:44.706 --> 00:19:47.242
  • Is afraid of their judgment, so she goes when the words won't be
  • 00:19:47.242 --> 00:19:51.780
  • Cast upon her that she has all of these husbands in her past.
  • 00:19:51.780 --> 00:19:55.183
  • So i think us sitting here we go, well, i'm so broken.
  • 00:19:55.183 --> 00:19:59.321
  • If you knew my whole story, i'm not altogether.
  • 00:19:59.321 --> 00:20:01.490
  • The people in the book of john felt the same way.
  • 00:20:01.490 --> 00:20:08.130
  • You've been many times also to israel, to be in jerusalem, to
  • 00:20:08.130 --> 00:20:12.601
  • Be there at the temple courtyard, the place where they
  • 00:20:12.601 --> 00:20:14.970
  • Really believe that the woman caught in adultery was brought
  • 00:20:14.970 --> 00:20:18.106
  • In and thrown before jesus.
  • 00:20:18.106 --> 00:20:20.309
  • And when you're sitting there and you realize jesus kneels
  • 00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:22.711
  • Down and he's writing something in the dust which we don't know
  • 00:20:22.711 --> 00:20:26.248
  • Exactly what the word himself was writing.
  • 00:20:26.248 --> 00:20:28.917
  • But is that detail there, c.s. lewis says that detail is there
  • 00:20:28.917 --> 00:20:31.653
  • Because nothing ever comes of it, so it must be there only
  • 00:20:31.653 --> 00:20:34.122
  • Because it actually really happened.
  • 00:20:34.122 --> 00:20:36.625
  • It's a detail that you wouldn't put in there if actually an eye
  • 00:20:36.625 --> 00:20:39.895
  • Witness didn't actually see it.
  • 00:20:39.895 --> 00:20:41.863
  • But to realize that jesus is below the woman caught in
  • 00:20:41.863 --> 00:20:45.400
  • Adultery, jesus is the lifter of our chins when everybody else
  • 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:50.706
  • Abandons us or condemns us.
  • 00:20:50.706 --> 00:20:53.809
  • Jesus is the one who goes ahead and tells everyone else you
  • 00:20:53.809 --> 00:20:57.279
  • Without sin you can cast the first stone.
  • 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:00.549
  • No one is more gentle with the lines of your story than the
  • 00:21:00.549 --> 00:21:04.353
  • Word himself.
  • 00:21:04.353 --> 00:21:06.054
  • I really wanted the book to be called because like christmas
  • 00:21:06.054 --> 00:21:08.557
  • Book is called "the greatest gift."
  • 00:21:08.557 --> 00:21:10.192
  • I wanted the book to be called "the greatest passion" because
  • 00:21:10.192 --> 00:21:14.162
  • To really understand no one has loved you more than jesus
  • 00:21:14.162 --> 00:21:19.000
  • Loves you.
  • 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.369
  • And i think sometimes we struggle to understand that
  • 00:21:20.369 --> 00:21:23.138
  • We're really loved because we think if you knew all the parts
  • 00:21:23.138 --> 00:21:25.841
  • Of my story, if you knew all of me, you would reject me.
  • 00:21:25.841 --> 00:21:30.579
  • We come into this world wanting, as my therapist kurt thomas
  • 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:35.984
  • Always says, we come into the world looking for someone
  • 00:21:35.984 --> 00:21:39.187
  • Looking for us.
  • 00:21:39.187 --> 00:21:40.522
  • We want to be known, we want to be seen, and yet we're terrified
  • 00:21:40.522 --> 00:21:44.292
  • That if someone actually knew all the parts of us, they would
  • 00:21:44.292 --> 00:21:46.595
  • Reject us.
  • 00:21:46.595 --> 00:21:48.263
  • It's a complete paradigm shift to realize that love himself
  • 00:21:48.263 --> 00:21:52.033
  • Knows all the parts of us and only is attracted more deeply to
  • 00:21:52.033 --> 00:21:57.239
  • Us and wants to be with us.
  • 00:21:57.239 --> 00:22:00.909
  • Sheila: you know it's so fascinating because up until i
  • 00:22:00.909 --> 00:22:04.646
  • Was maybe about 34, my whole thing was you're right, every
  • 00:22:04.646 --> 00:22:08.617
  • Single human being longs to be fully known and fully loved.
  • 00:22:08.617 --> 00:22:12.854
  • But the fear of if we're fully known we won't be fully loved,
  • 00:22:12.854 --> 00:22:16.091
  • We trade away being known.
  • 00:22:16.091 --> 00:22:19.294
  • And i think that's something that everyone who's watching
  • 00:22:19.294 --> 00:22:21.329
  • Can understand.
  • 00:22:21.329 --> 00:22:23.698
  • Have there been moments in your life where it's like you
  • 00:22:23.698 --> 00:22:27.369
  • Suddenly get a deeper understanding of maybe in pain
  • 00:22:27.369 --> 00:22:31.673
  • Or in joy of, oh, this is even greater than i could imagine?
  • 00:22:31.673 --> 00:22:37.112
  • Ann: i think we're always on a pilgrimage we're always on a
  • 00:22:37.112 --> 00:22:40.515
  • Journey of receiving and accepting and being receptive to
  • 00:22:40.515 --> 00:22:45.253
  • Greater measures of his love.
  • 00:22:45.253 --> 00:22:46.588
  • So i don't think we ever really arrive, i think for me picking
  • 00:22:46.588 --> 00:22:50.392
  • Up that pen and every day just writing down several gifts and
  • 00:22:50.392 --> 00:22:54.463
  • Realizing, oh wait, i'm not just writing down chronically
  • 00:22:54.463 --> 00:22:57.466
  • Numbering gifts i'm actually counting the ways he loves
  • 00:22:57.466 --> 00:23:01.002
  • Me personally.
  • 00:23:01.002 --> 00:23:02.370
  • Sheila: you do that every day?
  • 00:23:02.370 --> 00:23:03.705
  • Ann: every day, i have to do it.
  • 00:23:03.705 --> 00:23:05.040
  • Because it's a way of training my mind and my eyes to look for
  • 00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:07.909
  • The way love himself is loving me, the way jehovah jireh is
  • 00:23:07.909 --> 00:23:11.880
  • Providing for me.
  • 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:13.582
  • So that is one way to train our eyes and our mind to see
  • 00:23:13.582 --> 00:23:17.185
  • And notice.
  • 00:23:17.185 --> 00:23:18.553
  • But then i think also every day after i go ahead and i write
  • 00:23:18.553 --> 00:23:21.523
  • Down the things i'm grateful for, spending time in his word,
  • 00:23:21.523 --> 00:23:25.260
  • Specifically in the gospels, for me, i love romans 8, and romans
  • 00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:30.599
  • 12, and psalm 90, but i have-- john 11 has become such a--yes,
  • 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:35.937
  • Yes, yes.
  • 00:23:35.937 --> 00:23:37.339
  • John 11 for me really has become a home.
  • 00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:41.443
  • I mean it holds that the smallest verse in all of
  • 00:23:41.443 --> 00:23:43.812
  • Scripture "jesus wept."
  • 00:23:43.812 --> 00:23:46.381
  • Jesus is never apathetic about our pain.
  • 00:23:46.381 --> 00:23:48.650
  • He's deeply empathetic about our pain.
  • 00:23:48.650 --> 00:23:51.987
  • And when he's standing there before the tomb where lazarus
  • 00:23:51.987 --> 00:23:56.024
  • Has died, he's been there four days, he stinketh at this point.
  • 00:23:56.024 --> 00:24:01.329
  • Jesus--why is he weeping?
  • 00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:02.697
  • Actually in the original language, he's so deeply moved,
  • 00:24:02.697 --> 00:24:05.667
  • The actual translation of that is that he feels deep anger that
  • 00:24:05.667 --> 00:24:08.870
  • He's reeling inside.
  • 00:24:08.870 --> 00:24:10.972
  • So why is he feeling that way when he knows in a few moments
  • 00:24:10.972 --> 00:24:14.142
  • He's going to call lazarus out of the tomb and this funeral
  • 00:24:14.142 --> 00:24:17.312
  • Procession is gonna turn into a celebration.
  • 00:24:17.312 --> 00:24:20.782
  • He doesn't turn to to mary and martha and say stop your tears.
  • 00:24:20.782 --> 00:24:25.587
  • Like shared tears is multiplied healing.
  • 00:24:25.587 --> 00:24:28.189
  • Jesus in his sovereignty, he also gives us solidarity, he
  • 00:24:28.189 --> 00:24:31.126
  • Weeps with us.
  • 00:24:31.126 --> 00:24:33.495
  • But in ultimate reality, jesus is weeping because he sees us in
  • 00:24:33.495 --> 00:24:38.400
  • The future, and he knows how we weep over all kinds of our own
  • 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:42.504
  • Griefs and our own losses.
  • 00:24:42.504 --> 00:24:44.039
  • And the injustices that make us angry, jesus is angry about
  • 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:49.144
  • Those injustices too.
  • 00:24:49.144 --> 00:24:51.079
  • So john 11 and to come back and realize, oh, i can sit with the
  • 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:55.083
  • One who is love himself because he deeply empathizes with the
  • 00:24:55.083 --> 00:24:58.920
  • Way it is to live in a brokenhearted world.
  • 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:01.756
  • Sheila: i love following you on every place you can, follow ann.
  • 00:25:01.756 --> 00:25:05.994
  • And by the way, if you haven't checked out ann's page,
  • 00:25:05.994 --> 00:25:08.530
  • Annvoskamp.com, do yourself a humongous favor.
  • 00:25:08.530 --> 00:25:12.133
  • Because honestly it's just this richness and have you always
  • 00:25:12.133 --> 00:25:16.071
  • Been an artist?
  • 00:25:16.071 --> 00:25:17.439
  • I mean, there's something so artistic and poetic about the
  • 00:25:17.439 --> 00:25:20.141
  • Way you do things.
  • 00:25:20.141 --> 00:25:21.476
  • Ann: well, i love not just to write words that are beautiful
  • 00:25:21.476 --> 00:25:23.211
  • But to take photographs that are sort of beautiful.
  • 00:25:23.211 --> 00:25:25.614
  • Because i ultimately believe that beauty is irresistible is
  • 00:25:25.614 --> 00:25:29.084
  • What dostoevsky says.
  • 00:25:29.084 --> 00:25:30.652
  • And that jesus himself is the ultimate beauty.
  • 00:25:30.652 --> 00:25:33.455
  • So that when we train our eyes to look for beauty, we're
  • 00:25:33.455 --> 00:25:35.457
  • Actually being drawn to christ himself.
  • 00:25:35.457 --> 00:25:37.959
  • So whatever we do, can we do it with beauty because then it
  • 00:25:37.959 --> 00:25:41.496
  • Actually points to jesus.
  • 00:25:41.496 --> 00:25:43.164
  • Sheila: it's so funny when you mention that, when my
  • 00:25:43.164 --> 00:25:45.133
  • Father-in-law barry's dad lived with us for two or three years
  • 00:25:45.133 --> 00:25:47.869
  • Before he died.
  • 00:25:47.869 --> 00:25:49.204
  • And he teased me all the time about the books that i
  • 00:25:49.204 --> 00:25:52.540
  • Would get.
  • 00:25:52.540 --> 00:25:53.875
  • And i remember one morning he came through with another one
  • 00:25:53.875 --> 00:25:56.811
  • That had just been delivered, and he said, "here's another
  • 00:25:56.811 --> 00:25:58.647
  • Book from that dorstenoski."
  • 00:25:58.647 --> 00:26:02.250
  • I'm like, yep, that's good.
  • 00:26:02.250 --> 00:26:03.585
  • Ann: yeah that's for sure, for sure.
  • 00:26:03.585 --> 00:26:05.520
  • Sheila: but i want to go back to the whole thing of how you
  • 00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:08.757
  • Daily, if somebody's sitting at home thinking, well, that sounds
  • 00:26:08.757 --> 00:26:11.393
  • Great, but how do i do that?
  • 00:26:11.393 --> 00:26:12.761
  • Where do i start?
  • 00:26:12.761 --> 00:26:14.095
  • What would that look like?
  • 00:26:14.095 --> 00:26:15.530
  • Ann: well, i think it's martin luther who says satan hates the
  • 00:26:15.530 --> 00:26:18.933
  • Use of pens.
  • 00:26:18.933 --> 00:26:20.268
  • Sheila: oh.
  • 00:26:20.268 --> 00:26:21.636
  • Ann: because when we pick up a pen, we start to write down
  • 00:26:21.636 --> 00:26:23.638
  • Words of gratitude to jesus.
  • 00:26:23.638 --> 00:26:26.274
  • It's really wielding that pen like a sword to fight for joy.
  • 00:26:26.274 --> 00:26:29.277
  • The joy of the lord is our strength.
  • 00:26:29.277 --> 00:26:30.879
  • If we let something steal our joy in the lord, we're letting
  • 00:26:30.879 --> 00:26:33.248
  • Something steal our strength.
  • 00:26:33.248 --> 00:26:34.582
  • So when we pick up a pen and start to write down all of the
  • 00:26:34.582 --> 00:26:37.052
  • Ways that god is loving us.
  • 00:26:37.052 --> 00:26:38.753
  • And sometimes, you know what, to be really honest, there have
  • 00:26:38.753 --> 00:26:41.723
  • Been seasons where it's so dark and so hard.
  • 00:26:41.723 --> 00:26:44.959
  • It's very hard to pick up a pen, but can you find one thing to be
  • 00:26:44.959 --> 00:26:49.964
  • Grateful for?
  • 00:26:49.964 --> 00:26:51.700
  • And sometimes it's as simple as, can i go ahead and read a psalm
  • 00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:56.571
  • And realize that that psalm expresses my heart, and write
  • 00:26:56.571 --> 00:27:00.742
  • Down that psalm as what i'm grateful for.
  • 00:27:00.742 --> 00:27:02.911
  • There are times and seasons where i go ahead and i write
  • 00:27:02.911 --> 00:27:04.813
  • Down all of the things because it's easier to write down all
  • 00:27:04.813 --> 00:27:08.717
  • The things that i'm not grateful for and train myself that even
  • 00:27:08.717 --> 00:27:12.320
  • Though this doesn't feel like a gift right now, a redemptive
  • 00:27:12.320 --> 00:27:15.423
  • Good god is at work redeeming even this into a gift.
  • 00:27:15.423 --> 00:27:19.294
  • And if i only count when it feels easy as a gift, i've
  • 00:27:19.294 --> 00:27:21.563
  • Miscounted the gifts.
  • 00:27:21.563 --> 00:27:23.565
  • So if god's asking us, can you go faith gives thanks in the
  • 00:27:23.565 --> 00:27:27.168
  • Middle of the story?
  • 00:27:27.168 --> 00:27:28.670
  • So can i pick up a pen and write down the things that are even
  • 00:27:28.670 --> 00:27:31.072
  • Hard to give thanks for and realize, oh, i'm trusting right
  • 00:27:31.072 --> 00:27:35.243
  • Now, i'm having faith that god is going to work even this into
  • 00:27:35.243 --> 00:27:39.714
  • A good, good gift.
  • 00:27:39.714 --> 00:27:41.416
  • So it's one way to go ahead and encounter jesus every day to go
  • 00:27:41.416 --> 00:27:43.852
  • Ahead, i'll pick up a pen and lord, give me eyes to see how
  • 00:27:43.852 --> 00:27:47.388
  • Are you loving me today?
  • 00:27:47.388 --> 00:27:48.890
  • Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of
  • 00:27:48.890 --> 00:27:52.727
  • My life.
  • 00:27:52.727 --> 00:27:54.062
  • Train my eyes, slow me down and up in the pace of my life to
  • 00:27:54.062 --> 00:27:57.031
  • Slow down and see the goodness and mercy that is following me
  • 00:27:57.031 --> 00:27:59.667
  • Right now.
  • 00:27:59.667 --> 00:28:01.035
  • Sheila: okay, guys, that's something you and i could do.
  • 00:28:01.035 --> 00:28:03.004
  • We could start that literally today.
  • 00:28:03.004 --> 00:28:05.006
  • That barry, my husband keeps a gratitude journal on the side of
  • 00:28:05.006 --> 00:28:08.376
  • His bed and you're right, totally it refocuses everything
  • 00:28:08.376 --> 00:28:14.048
  • Back onto the lord.
  • 00:28:14.048 --> 00:28:15.383
  • Ann: scripture tells us, "enter into his presence with?"
  • 00:28:15.383 --> 00:28:18.119
  • Sheila: thanksgiving. ann: "thanksgiving."
  • 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:19.854
  • Ann: and the message actually says, "enter with the password,
  • 00:28:19.854 --> 00:28:23.658
  • 'thank you.'"
  • 00:28:23.658 --> 00:28:24.993
  • That when we go ahead and have a heart of gratitude, we're
  • 00:28:24.993 --> 00:28:27.796
  • Ushered into the presence of god and in his presence is fullness
  • 00:28:27.796 --> 00:28:31.232
  • Of joy.
  • 00:28:31.232 --> 00:28:33.434
  • Sheila: when you talk about the story you've touched on this,
  • 00:28:33.434 --> 00:28:36.471
  • But the samaritan woman.
  • 00:28:36.471 --> 00:28:38.673
  • Her main identity up until that point was shame and i love the
  • 00:28:38.673 --> 00:28:43.178
  • Fact that when they're having this discussion about where
  • 00:28:43.178 --> 00:28:46.347
  • Should we worship, you worship here, we worship there, you
  • 00:28:46.347 --> 00:28:48.416
  • Know, where's the best, and jesus said, time is coming in
  • 00:28:48.416 --> 00:28:51.019
  • Fact it's here now when those who worship will worship in
  • 00:28:51.019 --> 00:28:54.455
  • Spirit and in truth.
  • 00:28:54.455 --> 00:28:55.790
  • And that little greek word "elethea," with nothing hidden.
  • 00:28:55.790 --> 00:28:59.961
  • That was revolutionary for me.
  • 00:28:59.961 --> 00:29:01.896
  • I get to come to god with nothing hidden.
  • 00:29:01.896 --> 00:29:05.099
  • Because that woman then when she recognizes jesus, she runs back
  • 00:29:05.099 --> 00:29:08.870
  • To the very people who've shamed her and says, not just come and
  • 00:29:08.870 --> 00:29:12.740
  • Meet this man who's got good things to say.
  • 00:29:12.740 --> 00:29:14.108
  • Ann: but come and meet this man--
  • 00:29:14.108 --> 00:29:15.844
  • Sheila: who told me everything about my life.
  • 00:29:15.844 --> 00:29:17.745
  • Ann: completely known, completely known and
  • 00:29:17.745 --> 00:29:20.481
  • Not ashamed.
  • 00:29:20.481 --> 00:29:21.816
  • I've met people who've said if faith is about this gaze we have
  • 00:29:21.816 --> 00:29:25.553
  • On jesus, they've shared really vulnerably, it's really hard for
  • 00:29:25.553 --> 00:29:29.290
  • Me when i've done all of these things in my life, when i have
  • 00:29:29.290 --> 00:29:31.626
  • This broken story, for me to gaze upon jesus.
  • 00:29:31.626 --> 00:29:35.296
  • But to realize we are the woman, the samaritan woman at the well.
  • 00:29:35.296 --> 00:29:39.400
  • Jesus knows everything about us, and he doesn't go around us or
  • 00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:44.873
  • Detour around us.
  • 00:29:44.873 --> 00:29:46.341
  • He actually wants to only draw closer to the parts of us that
  • 00:29:46.341 --> 00:29:50.979
  • We don't wanna draw any attention to.
  • 00:29:50.979 --> 00:29:53.715
  • That is actually paradigm shifting because then we can go
  • 00:29:53.715 --> 00:29:57.685
  • Ahead we're like that woman, we become evangelists too, we want
  • 00:29:57.685 --> 00:30:01.122
  • To run out into the world and say whatever you've ever done,
  • 00:30:01.122 --> 00:30:04.158
  • Jesus covers all of that and he only wants
  • 00:30:04.158 --> 00:30:06.494
  • Your presence closer to him.
  • 00:30:06.494 --> 00:30:09.097
  • I think lots of times if we could go ahead and take off our
  • 00:30:09.097 --> 00:30:11.432
  • Masks, we'll be far better evangelists.
  • 00:30:11.432 --> 00:30:14.435
  • Sheila: it's so interesting because i think i would have
  • 00:30:14.435 --> 00:30:16.838
  • Thought before that to take off your mask you would find that
  • 00:30:16.838 --> 00:30:20.775
  • You're not accepted.
  • 00:30:20.775 --> 00:30:22.277
  • I've discovered that my brokenness is a far greater
  • 00:30:22.277 --> 00:30:24.946
  • Bridge to other people than pretend wholeness ever was.
  • 00:30:24.946 --> 00:30:28.950
  • I remember being invited to speak at this, before women
  • 00:30:28.950 --> 00:30:31.619
  • Of faith.
  • 00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:32.987
  • I'd never spoken before.
  • 00:30:32.987 --> 00:30:34.322
  • I worked in television.
  • 00:30:34.322 --> 00:30:35.690
  • Oh, yeah, no, i mean that thought terrified me.
  • 00:30:35.690 --> 00:30:37.392
  • But a friend of mine said, would you do me a favor?
  • 00:30:37.392 --> 00:30:40.695
  • And she's my best friend so i'm like, yeah, of course i will.
  • 00:30:40.695 --> 00:30:42.730
  • And she said, will you go to this women's lunch in palm
  • 00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:45.733
  • Springs and speak?
  • 00:30:45.733 --> 00:30:47.101
  • And i'm like, no, of course i won't.
  • 00:30:47.101 --> 00:30:49.304
  • And she's like i need you to do it.
  • 00:30:49.304 --> 00:30:51.172
  • I'm like, marlene, i don't do that.
  • 00:30:51.172 --> 00:30:52.974
  • I don't know how to do that.
  • 00:30:52.974 --> 00:30:54.342
  • And i said, ask, you know, all the women in the circuit
  • 00:30:54.342 --> 00:30:56.978
  • Who speak.
  • 00:30:56.978 --> 00:30:58.346
  • And this is what she said and this is my best friend.
  • 00:30:58.346 --> 00:31:00.448
  • She said, i've asked them all, you are literally the bottom of
  • 00:31:00.448 --> 00:31:02.617
  • The barrel.
  • 00:31:02.617 --> 00:31:03.985
  • And because i loved her.
  • 00:31:03.985 --> 00:31:05.320
  • Ann: but the gem was at the bottom of the barrel.
  • 00:31:05.320 --> 00:31:07.221
  • Sheila: because i loved her.
  • 00:31:07.221 --> 00:31:08.589
  • I, said, okay.
  • 00:31:08.589 --> 00:31:09.924
  • But i remember thinking, oh this is a disaster.
  • 00:31:09.924 --> 00:31:11.459
  • And i got there and they're like a thousand women, palm springs,
  • 00:31:11.459 --> 00:31:15.530
  • Chauffeur-driven limousines.
  • 00:31:15.530 --> 00:31:16.864
  • I mean just the whole.
  • 00:31:16.864 --> 00:31:18.232
  • And i remember thinking what have i gotten myself into.
  • 00:31:18.232 --> 00:31:22.170
  • And as i stood up to speak and i looked out at all these perfect
  • 00:31:22.170 --> 00:31:25.340
  • Women, and perfect faces, and perfect lives, i felt the holy
  • 00:31:25.340 --> 00:31:29.077
  • Spirit say.
  • 00:31:29.077 --> 00:31:30.411
  • "just tell the truth."
  • 00:31:30.411 --> 00:31:32.013
  • Like, okay.
  • 00:31:32.013 --> 00:31:33.748
  • Ann: "the truth shall set you free," all of these women, yes.
  • 00:31:33.748 --> 00:31:37.018
  • Sheila: "nice to meet you.
  • 00:31:37.018 --> 00:31:38.453
  • My name is sheila, and eight weeks ago i was released from a
  • 00:31:38.453 --> 00:31:40.188
  • Psychiatric hospital."
  • 00:31:40.188 --> 00:31:41.889
  • And there was just like this kind of gasp.
  • 00:31:41.889 --> 00:31:44.392
  • And honestly, i didn't even want to make eye contact with anyone
  • 00:31:44.392 --> 00:31:47.362
  • Because i thought what i would see was who invited her.
  • 00:31:47.362 --> 00:31:50.832
  • But halfway through i started to look at women and i saw tears
  • 00:31:50.832 --> 00:31:55.136
  • Flowing through perfect makeup.
  • 00:31:55.136 --> 00:31:57.071
  • And i thought some of our masks just cost more, but they're
  • 00:31:57.071 --> 00:32:00.875
  • Serving exactly the same purpose.
  • 00:32:00.875 --> 00:32:04.112
  • Ann: what we all want is intimacy.
  • 00:32:04.112 --> 00:32:06.714
  • Sheila: yeah.
  • 00:32:06.714 --> 00:32:08.049
  • Ann: connection, and the only way to get to connection is
  • 00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:10.385
  • Through that door of vulnerability, which is what you
  • 00:32:10.385 --> 00:32:13.187
  • Offered you gave the gift of going first to say this is a
  • 00:32:13.187 --> 00:32:16.290
  • Broken part of my story and then we were like, oh, shame dies
  • 00:32:16.290 --> 00:32:20.294
  • When stories are told in safe places and what you did was give
  • 00:32:20.294 --> 00:32:23.831
  • Those women a safe place.
  • 00:32:23.831 --> 00:32:25.633
  • There's no shame anymore, which is exactly what jesus does for
  • 00:32:25.633 --> 00:32:28.770
  • The samaritan woman at the well.
  • 00:32:28.770 --> 00:32:30.605
  • That shame dies when jesus, this is a safe place for me to come
  • 00:32:30.605 --> 00:32:33.674
  • With my whole story.
  • 00:32:33.674 --> 00:32:36.177
  • I hope part of living a cruciform life is exactly what
  • 00:32:36.177 --> 00:32:39.580
  • You just did there, is going ahead and taking the mask off
  • 00:32:39.580 --> 00:32:42.050
  • And being vulnerable with all the parts of our hearts.
  • 00:32:42.050 --> 00:32:45.019
  • And then everybody feels safe to come with all of their parts of
  • 00:32:45.019 --> 00:32:47.588
  • Their hearts too.
  • 00:32:47.588 --> 00:32:49.123
  • Sheila: the interesting thing was as it was the only time i'd
  • 00:32:49.123 --> 00:32:51.893
  • Ever spoken in public, i didn't know how to finish.
  • 00:32:51.893 --> 00:32:53.728
  • I didn't know how to get off.
  • 00:32:53.728 --> 00:32:55.296
  • Because like a tv show they roll the credits or concert you're
  • 00:32:55.296 --> 00:32:58.199
  • Like, good night, cleveland, thank you.
  • 00:32:58.199 --> 00:33:00.568
  • And so basically i just said, okay, that's kind of all i have
  • 00:33:00.568 --> 00:33:03.404
  • To say.
  • 00:33:03.404 --> 00:33:04.772
  • If anybody wants to talk i'll be there.
  • 00:33:04.772 --> 00:33:06.107
  • The first person to come up to me was the beautiful blonde they
  • 00:33:06.107 --> 00:33:09.644
  • Sat me beside at the top table.
  • 00:33:09.644 --> 00:33:11.579
  • And she took off her gold diamond encrusted bracelets and
  • 00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:14.816
  • Showed me where she'd slit her wrists.
  • 00:33:14.816 --> 00:33:17.018
  • And i remember thinking that was a life-transforming day for me.
  • 00:33:17.018 --> 00:33:21.155
  • I drove home a couple of hours to where i was living sobbing,
  • 00:33:21.155 --> 00:33:25.093
  • Saying, you knew that was gonna happen, lord, and i had no idea.
  • 00:33:25.093 --> 00:33:28.196
  • Because on the way there i was apologizing for the fact he was
  • 00:33:28.196 --> 00:33:31.032
  • Not gonna look very good.
  • 00:33:31.032 --> 00:33:33.267
  • Ann: but i think that the whole point is when we go ahead and
  • 00:33:33.267 --> 00:33:36.003
  • Take our masks off and say this is my broken story, this is
  • 00:33:36.003 --> 00:33:39.507
  • Where i did cut my wrists and the self-harming and i didn't
  • 00:33:39.507 --> 00:33:41.609
  • Know where to take that pain, when we go ahead and say, i
  • 00:33:41.609 --> 00:33:44.011
  • Needed jesus, it actually makes jesus look much better.
  • 00:33:44.011 --> 00:33:47.014
  • Because it's not that we have it all together, but one came and
  • 00:33:47.014 --> 00:33:49.784
  • Found us and held us together by his love.
  • 00:33:49.784 --> 00:33:52.887
  • Sheila: if you're struggling at all to grasp the love of god, i
  • 00:33:52.887 --> 00:33:56.023
  • Don't know where you're at in your life story at the moment,
  • 00:33:56.023 --> 00:33:58.759
  • But i want to tell you about ann's book.
  • 00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:00.094
  • It's called "loved to life," and it is rich.
  • 00:34:00.094 --> 00:34:04.432
  • I mean you can use it as a 40-day devotional.
  • 00:34:04.432 --> 00:34:08.236
  • You can--whatever works for you, but i have to tell you, just
  • 00:34:08.236 --> 00:34:12.039
  • Reading even just one of them last night it was like i felt
  • 00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:15.610
  • Like there was the lord had laid out a feast.
  • 00:34:15.610 --> 00:34:18.179
  • If you struggle to understand that the god of the universe
  • 00:34:18.179 --> 00:34:21.816
  • Looks at you and says, i love you.
  • 00:34:21.816 --> 00:34:24.418
  • I know you and i love you.
  • 00:34:24.418 --> 00:34:26.521
  • I want you to know that this book will make a
  • 00:34:26.521 --> 00:34:29.190
  • Huge difference.
  • 00:34:29.190 --> 00:34:30.992
  • You write books that dent our hearts and leave an impression.
  • 00:34:30.992 --> 00:34:35.129
  • And the thing i think is so interesting about you though,
  • 00:34:35.129 --> 00:34:37.498
  • Ann, is that you have such a full life.
  • 00:34:37.498 --> 00:34:39.967
  • I mean you have six children and then you have
  • 00:34:39.967 --> 00:34:41.769
  • The little lamb from china.
  • 00:34:41.769 --> 00:34:43.271
  • Ann: yes. sheila: tell us about her.
  • 00:34:43.271 --> 00:34:45.006
  • Ann: yes, so we had our six children in ten years and then
  • 00:34:45.006 --> 00:34:47.642
  • There's a 10-year break and then we adopted little shiloh
  • 00:34:47.642 --> 00:34:51.412
  • From china.
  • 00:34:51.412 --> 00:34:52.780
  • Shiloh was born with hypoplastic left heart syndrome, so she
  • 00:34:52.780 --> 00:34:55.850
  • Literally has half of a heart.
  • 00:34:55.850 --> 00:34:57.451
  • She's had 3 open-heart surgeries and we're praying the lord heals
  • 00:34:57.451 --> 00:35:01.856
  • Her heart.
  • 00:35:01.856 --> 00:35:04.492
  • And if not shiloh, the lord will work through a heart transplant
  • 00:35:04.492 --> 00:35:08.896
  • In shiloh's future.
  • 00:35:08.896 --> 00:35:10.231
  • Our kids all say, apart from jesus, shiloh is the very best
  • 00:35:10.231 --> 00:35:12.667
  • Thing that ever happened to us.
  • 00:35:12.667 --> 00:35:16.571
  • Because we see in shiloh she actually takes a pen now and she
  • 00:35:16.571 --> 00:35:22.577
  • Draws a cross on her wrist, and then she draws on the side
  • 00:35:22.577 --> 00:35:25.813
  • A heart.
  • 00:35:25.813 --> 00:35:27.148
  • And then she always draws the circle and i say, honey, what's
  • 00:35:27.148 --> 00:35:28.749
  • The circle for?
  • 00:35:28.749 --> 00:35:30.084
  • And she says, because the empty tomb so we get to raise to life.
  • 00:35:30.084 --> 00:35:33.454
  • So shiloh's been struggling with this past summer realizing, oh
  • 00:35:33.454 --> 00:35:37.758
  • Mama, when i need a new heart, where will they get that heart
  • 00:35:37.758 --> 00:35:41.329
  • For me?
  • 00:35:41.329 --> 00:35:42.697
  • And gathering her up and telling her how much i love her and that
  • 00:35:42.697 --> 00:35:45.299
  • Jesus is working that part of the story all out and she told
  • 00:35:45.299 --> 00:35:48.669
  • Me that her little friends had said that one was really afraid
  • 00:35:48.669 --> 00:35:50.671
  • Of spiders and the other little girl was really afraid of
  • 00:35:50.671 --> 00:35:53.241
  • Snakes, but she said, mama, i'm really scared.
  • 00:35:53.241 --> 00:35:54.675
  • What does it feel like to die?
  • 00:35:54.675 --> 00:35:56.911
  • And we went back to john 11 because where else do you go but
  • 00:35:56.911 --> 00:36:01.315
  • To the one who says, "i am the resurrection and the life.
  • 00:36:01.315 --> 00:36:06.187
  • He who believes in me shall never die."
  • 00:36:06.187 --> 00:36:09.490
  • This isn't just a story.
  • 00:36:09.490 --> 00:36:11.926
  • This is our living reality, where else shall we go?
  • 00:36:11.926 --> 00:36:16.330
  • But you, lord, have the words of life.
  • 00:36:16.330 --> 00:36:19.400
  • And so for shiloh and i, we have been walking through the book of
  • 00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.103
  • John together and pilgrimaging with the one who says, "i am the
  • 00:36:22.103 --> 00:36:25.973
  • Way, the truth, the life."
  • 00:36:25.973 --> 00:36:28.576
  • Sheila: how old is shiloh now?
  • 00:36:28.576 --> 00:36:29.944
  • Ann: she's now ten. sheila: she's ten?
  • 00:36:29.944 --> 00:36:31.579
  • Ann: she's ten.
  • 00:36:31.579 --> 00:36:33.080
  • Shiloh came home when she was 18-months-old, and she says,
  • 00:36:33.080 --> 00:36:36.117
  • Mama, i'm just gonna stay with you forever, which i think is
  • 00:36:36.117 --> 00:36:38.219
  • Absolutely perfect.
  • 00:36:38.219 --> 00:36:39.754
  • Sheila: great answer.
  • 00:36:39.754 --> 00:36:41.122
  • Great answer.
  • 00:36:41.122 --> 00:36:42.790
  • The other thing i thought was so fascinating, one of my favorite
  • 00:36:42.790 --> 00:36:45.192
  • Chapters in john's gospel is where jesus calls himself the
  • 00:36:45.192 --> 00:36:47.662
  • Good shepherd.
  • 00:36:47.662 --> 00:36:49.463
  • And you and your darling husband, you're farmers, and you
  • 00:36:49.463 --> 00:36:53.034
  • Have the most adorable sheep.
  • 00:36:53.034 --> 00:36:54.468
  • Ann: i am in love with sheep.
  • 00:36:54.468 --> 00:36:55.870
  • Right now i have 23 sheep and i have learned so much about what
  • 00:36:55.870 --> 00:37:01.642
  • It means when jesus says that he is the good shepherd.
  • 00:37:01.642 --> 00:37:05.146
  • This winter we've had a really brutal winter, so cold, and the
  • 00:37:05.146 --> 00:37:10.318
  • Winds and the temperature was dropped so, so low in the middle
  • 00:37:10.318 --> 00:37:14.088
  • Of the night.
  • 00:37:14.088 --> 00:37:15.423
  • So i would be getting up at midnight and at 3 a.m.
  • 00:37:15.423 --> 00:37:17.825
  • To go out and check on the sheep to make sure that the sheep--
  • 00:37:17.825 --> 00:37:20.928
  • And standing there under stars and thinking i have a good
  • 00:37:20.928 --> 00:37:25.866
  • Shepherd who doesn't sleep or slumber, who says he is the
  • 00:37:25.866 --> 00:37:30.371
  • Door, he lays himself down as the gate into the sheep fold,
  • 00:37:30.371 --> 00:37:33.841
  • That nothing can come into my life unless it's come
  • 00:37:33.841 --> 00:37:36.877
  • Through him.
  • 00:37:36.877 --> 00:37:38.779
  • Sheila: that's a powerful, powerful picture.
  • 00:37:38.779 --> 00:37:40.147
  • Ann: it changes everything.
  • 00:37:40.147 --> 00:37:41.482
  • Nothing can get past the good shepherd.
  • 00:37:41.482 --> 00:37:42.850
  • Actually keep on their window sill at home on the farm, a
  • 00:37:42.850 --> 00:37:45.086
  • Little sheep figurine in the window sill.
  • 00:37:45.086 --> 00:37:47.421
  • To remind myself when i get anxious, i have a good shepherd.
  • 00:37:47.421 --> 00:37:51.359
  • I don't need to know the way through, i don't have to know.
  • 00:37:51.359 --> 00:37:54.195
  • "that we are like sheep."
  • 00:37:54.195 --> 00:37:56.831
  • My husband says all the time, darryl is a very, very gracious
  • 00:37:56.831 --> 00:38:00.368
  • Man, and he almost always says yes to everything.
  • 00:38:00.368 --> 00:38:03.571
  • So when i said i wanted a sheep, he said no.
  • 00:38:03.571 --> 00:38:06.107
  • And i said daryl, you always say--.
  • 00:38:06.107 --> 00:38:07.975
  • Why no?
  • 00:38:07.975 --> 00:38:09.343
  • And he said, and you always have really great ideas, but i'm the
  • 00:38:09.343 --> 00:38:12.046
  • One that ends up doing all of the work.
  • 00:38:12.046 --> 00:38:13.414
  • Like you can have sheep only if you are the one who does all
  • 00:38:13.414 --> 00:38:15.683
  • The work.
  • 00:38:15.683 --> 00:38:17.017
  • So now, and i started getting sheep in the middle of
  • 00:38:17.017 --> 00:38:18.853
  • The pandemic.
  • 00:38:18.853 --> 00:38:20.187
  • So i was home all the time, but now when i leave, now he takes
  • 00:38:20.187 --> 00:38:23.524
  • Pictures of him out feeding the sheep, and he sends it to me and
  • 00:38:23.524 --> 00:38:26.060
  • Says, i love you.
  • 00:38:26.060 --> 00:38:27.395
  • I fed your sheep for you.
  • 00:38:27.395 --> 00:38:29.430
  • So when i got out to feed the sheep, darryl says, you know,
  • 00:38:29.430 --> 00:38:32.400
  • The sheep, when i leave the house they don't baa.
  • 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:35.069
  • When you leave the sheep at the house and they all baa, they
  • 00:38:35.069 --> 00:38:37.638
  • Hear your voice, they know your voice.
  • 00:38:37.638 --> 00:38:40.007
  • And it's true, actually they know, sheep can delineate 40
  • 00:38:40.007 --> 00:38:45.479
  • Different voices that they actually know those voices.
  • 00:38:45.479 --> 00:38:49.250
  • And in biblical times, roman times, the word for money was
  • 00:38:49.250 --> 00:38:52.586
  • Etymologically rooted in the word money.
  • 00:38:52.586 --> 00:38:56.690
  • So money and sheep are connected to each other because their
  • 00:38:56.690 --> 00:39:00.094
  • Flocks were their fortune, their wool was their wealth.
  • 00:39:00.094 --> 00:39:04.498
  • So when jesus calls us his sheep, he's saying that we are
  • 00:39:04.498 --> 00:39:08.502
  • His treasure, that we are his wealth.
  • 00:39:08.502 --> 00:39:10.738
  • The lord is my shepherd.
  • 00:39:10.738 --> 00:39:12.506
  • We are so cherished and treasured by the one who calls
  • 00:39:12.506 --> 00:39:16.444
  • Us his own.
  • 00:39:16.444 --> 00:39:17.945
  • So i think having the sheep for me, actually last spring we had
  • 00:39:17.945 --> 00:39:22.016
  • A ewe who rejected her little lamb and i brought little jemmy
  • 00:39:22.016 --> 00:39:25.853
  • Into the house and i bottle-fed her and she came everywhere with
  • 00:39:25.853 --> 00:39:28.756
  • Me and crawled up on my lap.
  • 00:39:28.756 --> 00:39:30.124
  • And we realized the good shepherd just really wants the
  • 00:39:30.124 --> 00:39:32.893
  • Presence of his sheep close to him, carried close to his heart.
  • 00:39:32.893 --> 00:39:37.698
  • Sheila: it's such a powerful picture.
  • 00:39:37.698 --> 00:39:39.033
  • Ann: it really is.
  • 00:39:39.033 --> 00:39:40.401
  • Sheila: when barry and i were in new zealand, i was speaking at a
  • 00:39:40.401 --> 00:39:42.269
  • Church in new zealand.
  • 00:39:42.269 --> 00:39:43.637
  • And you know, in new zealand there's just sheep everywhere.
  • 00:39:43.637 --> 00:39:46.841
  • I mean i felt like i'd landed and gone to heaven.
  • 00:39:46.841 --> 00:39:49.877
  • But when the whole conference was over and we were back at the
  • 00:39:49.877 --> 00:39:53.647
  • House and other speakers, you know, they were all at the
  • 00:39:53.647 --> 00:39:55.516
  • Pastor's house for like a supper at the end and it was priscilla
  • 00:39:55.516 --> 00:39:57.952
  • Shirer and different people, all these different speakers.
  • 00:39:57.952 --> 00:40:00.554
  • But barry and i are out in the yard because they brought this
  • 00:40:00.554 --> 00:40:03.791
  • One little lamb.
  • 00:40:03.791 --> 00:40:05.259
  • A bummer lamb.
  • 00:40:05.259 --> 00:40:06.694
  • Ann: you and i are soul sisters, yes.
  • 00:40:06.694 --> 00:40:09.730
  • Sheila: that had that the sheep had rejected this little one,
  • 00:40:09.730 --> 00:40:14.301
  • And i just have half the photos on my phone are barry and i
  • 00:40:14.301 --> 00:40:17.538
  • Holding this precious little lamb and feeding it with a
  • 00:40:17.538 --> 00:40:20.207
  • Bottle and listening to its little voice.
  • 00:40:20.207 --> 00:40:22.910
  • And when i left, the person whose lamb it was gave me a tiny
  • 00:40:22.910 --> 00:40:26.580
  • Little lamb, and i have that where i see it every single day.
  • 00:40:26.580 --> 00:40:30.584
  • And honestly, ann, i can't tell you what that picture does
  • 00:40:30.584 --> 00:40:32.853
  • For me.
  • 00:40:32.853 --> 00:40:34.221
  • Ann: it changes absolutely everything to realize that no
  • 00:40:34.221 --> 00:40:36.390
  • Matter what kind of condemnation happens in the world, what kind
  • 00:40:36.390 --> 00:40:38.993
  • Of rejection happens, through all kinds of different
  • 00:40:38.993 --> 00:40:41.128
  • Circumstances, we have a shepherd who will never leave us
  • 00:40:41.128 --> 00:40:44.798
  • Nor forsake us, leave the ninety-nine for the one, who
  • 00:40:44.798 --> 00:40:46.700
  • Welcomes us into his throne room and carries us so close.
  • 00:40:46.700 --> 00:40:52.840
  • So many pictures on my phone.
  • 00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:54.642
  • We had that sheep up on the furniture for like eight weeks.
  • 00:40:54.642 --> 00:40:57.745
  • The sheep wanted so desperately and i've had several people
  • 00:40:57.745 --> 00:41:01.081
  • Because the sheep is a really beautiful sheep, several people
  • 00:41:01.081 --> 00:41:03.250
  • Have asked, we would like to buy the sheep.
  • 00:41:03.250 --> 00:41:05.853
  • I have said you couldn't pay me enough money and to realize that
  • 00:41:05.853 --> 00:41:10.024
  • Oh, we are priceless to the good shepherd too.
  • 00:41:10.024 --> 00:41:13.861
  • Sheila: that is powerful.
  • 00:41:13.861 --> 00:41:15.529
  • And i'm trying to imagine, you know, for our viewers who are
  • 00:41:15.529 --> 00:41:19.366
  • Sitting at home in whatever they're dealing with, whatever
  • 00:41:19.366 --> 00:41:22.469
  • They're going through and thinking, i wish i knew jesus
  • 00:41:22.469 --> 00:41:25.439
  • The way that you know jesus.
  • 00:41:25.439 --> 00:41:28.108
  • What would you say to them?
  • 00:41:28.108 --> 00:41:31.345
  • Ann: again, i think it is to be so tender with that part of your
  • 00:41:31.345 --> 00:41:35.649
  • Heart to go, oh, i'm not where i want to be.
  • 00:41:35.649 --> 00:41:38.619
  • We're all on a journey and that journey lots of times is two
  • 00:41:38.619 --> 00:41:42.690
  • Steps forward and one step, or one step forward and two
  • 00:41:42.690 --> 00:41:44.692
  • Steps back.
  • 00:41:44.692 --> 00:41:46.060
  • And i'm a woman of chronic soul amnesia.
  • 00:41:46.060 --> 00:41:48.095
  • I can know a truth today that i will forget tomorrow, which is
  • 00:41:48.095 --> 00:41:50.431
  • Why this word is a--
  • 00:41:50.431 --> 00:41:51.966
  • Sheila: soul amnesia.
  • 00:41:51.966 --> 00:41:53.300
  • Ann: yeah, i do have soul amnesia all the time.
  • 00:41:53.300 --> 00:41:54.969
  • I have to keep coming back to the word so the word will preach
  • 00:41:54.969 --> 00:41:57.638
  • Gospel truth back to myself.
  • 00:41:57.638 --> 00:41:59.840
  • I think, you know, if you're in a place right now and you're
  • 00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:03.711
  • Really, really hurting, to know that jesus is the one who comes
  • 00:42:03.711 --> 00:42:07.581
  • As emmanuel, the god who is with us, and he gives you witness
  • 00:42:07.581 --> 00:42:11.518
  • And witness.
  • 00:42:11.518 --> 00:42:12.853
  • He sees you and he wants to be with you, so you're not alone no
  • 00:42:12.853 --> 00:42:16.523
  • Matter what the story looks like to realize that underneath of
  • 00:42:16.523 --> 00:42:19.393
  • You, no matter how low is low right now.
  • 00:42:19.393 --> 00:42:21.962
  • And you know a lot of times we can have it all together and we
  • 00:42:21.962 --> 00:42:24.932
  • Look like we have it all together, but i really believe
  • 00:42:24.932 --> 00:42:26.634
  • That every single person is carrying an unspoken broken,
  • 00:42:26.634 --> 00:42:29.737
  • That they don't even know really how to put into words at all.
  • 00:42:29.737 --> 00:42:33.807
  • So all of us have these parts of our stories to realize that
  • 00:42:33.807 --> 00:42:37.778
  • Underneath that part of our story is jesus who is love, who
  • 00:42:37.778 --> 00:42:41.615
  • Is the lifter of our chins, who is the everlasting arms that are
  • 00:42:41.615 --> 00:42:45.152
  • Underneath of us.
  • 00:42:45.152 --> 00:42:46.820
  • Can we go ahead and have a rhythm every day to come away
  • 00:42:46.820 --> 00:42:50.791
  • Into his word and rest?
  • 00:42:50.791 --> 00:42:54.261
  • Be the disciple whom jesus loves and lay our heads, and our
  • 00:42:54.261 --> 00:42:58.098
  • Heartbreak, and our burdens up against his chest.
  • 00:42:58.098 --> 00:43:02.503
  • Faith actually means allegiance to lean everything on someone.
  • 00:43:02.503 --> 00:43:06.707
  • So can we come with all of our heartbreak, our masks, the
  • 00:43:06.707 --> 00:43:09.343
  • Things we don't even know how to, the unspoken broken we can't
  • 00:43:09.343 --> 00:43:11.245
  • Say it out, and lean it up against the one who is love
  • 00:43:11.245 --> 00:43:14.448
  • Himself and rested there and let his love literally love us back
  • 00:43:14.448 --> 00:43:19.386
  • To life, revive us.
  • 00:43:19.386 --> 00:43:21.889
  • Sheila: i've been cheating and i've been reading ahead.
  • 00:43:21.889 --> 00:43:24.458
  • But i was really captivated when you write about surrender.
  • 00:43:24.458 --> 00:43:28.996
  • And i think we think that's very hard because what am i giving up
  • 00:43:28.996 --> 00:43:32.266
  • And what are you gonna make me do?
  • 00:43:32.266 --> 00:43:33.834
  • We have this kind of picture of, you know, if i surrender then
  • 00:43:33.834 --> 00:43:37.538
  • Terrible things are gonna happen.
  • 00:43:37.538 --> 00:43:38.872
  • What does surrender look like to you?
  • 00:43:38.872 --> 00:43:40.274
  • Ann: yeah, i remember being in israel and our messianic jewish
  • 00:43:40.274 --> 00:43:45.079
  • Guide was talking about places where the jewish people
  • 00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:48.716
  • Actually surrendered.
  • 00:43:48.716 --> 00:43:50.250
  • They sacrifice before the lord, this is the surrender of our
  • 00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:53.053
  • Animal, and what those different sacrifices look like.
  • 00:43:53.053 --> 00:43:55.389
  • And he said the hebrew word for that is "corban," and it means
  • 00:43:55.389 --> 00:43:59.326
  • To come nearer.
  • 00:43:59.326 --> 00:44:00.794
  • Well i was like, wait, wait, wait, what?
  • 00:44:00.794 --> 00:44:02.863
  • Because in our western understanding, a surrender is to
  • 00:44:02.863 --> 00:44:05.766
  • Lose something, a sacrifice is a loss of something costly
  • 00:44:05.766 --> 00:44:09.269
  • And great.
  • 00:44:09.269 --> 00:44:10.604
  • I'm giving up something.
  • 00:44:10.604 --> 00:44:12.473
  • When he said no, no, no, no, no, the hebrew understanding of a
  • 00:44:12.473 --> 00:44:16.176
  • Sacrifice, the surrender before god, you are gaining, you are
  • 00:44:16.176 --> 00:44:20.981
  • Coming nearer.
  • 00:44:20.981 --> 00:44:22.316
  • That when we sacrifice something, when we surrender,
  • 00:44:22.316 --> 00:44:24.485
  • When we live cruciform, we let go of something, you're letting
  • 00:44:24.485 --> 00:44:28.822
  • Go of the thing that's in the way of letting you draw closer,
  • 00:44:28.822 --> 00:44:33.527
  • Nearer to jesus himself.
  • 00:44:33.527 --> 00:44:35.662
  • Which is an upside-down way of thinking.
  • 00:44:35.662 --> 00:44:38.332
  • It's a gift, it is removing, letting go of something,
  • 00:44:38.332 --> 00:44:41.969
  • Removing something that is in the way of you drawing closer
  • 00:44:41.969 --> 00:44:46.140
  • To jesus.
  • 00:44:46.140 --> 00:44:47.474
  • Which is we went to shiloh, the place where the temple was, the
  • 00:44:47.474 --> 00:44:53.547
  • Tabernacle was for 360-some years, where hannah went
  • 00:44:53.547 --> 00:44:57.618
  • And prayed.
  • 00:44:57.618 --> 00:44:58.986
  • She came with her sacrifice.
  • 00:44:58.986 --> 00:45:01.355
  • But then what does she do?
  • 00:45:01.355 --> 00:45:02.689
  • After she has given her little baby, she returns that baby back
  • 00:45:02.689 --> 00:45:07.694
  • To the lord.
  • 00:45:07.694 --> 00:45:09.062
  • So can we say, lord, i am willing to surrender and give up
  • 00:45:09.062 --> 00:45:11.932
  • Everything, even that which i prayed the most for because i
  • 00:45:11.932 --> 00:45:15.669
  • Want to draw closer to you.
  • 00:45:15.669 --> 00:45:17.971
  • Because he is the love that we're actually desperately
  • 00:45:17.971 --> 00:45:20.340
  • Looking for.
  • 00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:21.675
  • Sheila: you know, it's interesting.
  • 00:45:21.675 --> 00:45:23.043
  • I used to belong to this thing called the christian endeavor
  • 00:45:23.043 --> 00:45:25.145
  • In scotland.
  • 00:45:25.145 --> 00:45:26.480
  • I would go every thursday night and we'd learn scriptures and
  • 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:28.282
  • Kind of tuck them deep into our hearts.
  • 00:45:28.282 --> 00:45:30.250
  • And one of the first ones i learned obviously was easy.
  • 00:45:30.250 --> 00:45:32.452
  • It was psalm 46:10, "be still and know that i am god."
  • 00:45:32.452 --> 00:45:36.190
  • But that hebrew understanding of what be still is, is let go.
  • 00:45:36.190 --> 00:45:41.628
  • Ann: surrender.
  • 00:45:41.628 --> 00:45:42.963
  • Sheila: open hand.
  • 00:45:42.963 --> 00:45:44.331
  • Ann: open hands, and we often say, well, jesus's last words on
  • 00:45:44.331 --> 00:45:46.600
  • The cross are "it is finished."
  • 00:45:46.600 --> 00:45:47.968
  • Well, no, his last words are, "into your hands i surrender.
  • 00:45:47.968 --> 00:45:51.572
  • I submit my spirit," which is again that posture of
  • 00:45:51.572 --> 00:45:54.842
  • Open-handedness, that posture of cruciform, that posture of
  • 00:45:54.842 --> 00:45:58.812
  • Letting go.
  • 00:45:58.812 --> 00:46:00.180
  • So i think lots of times we feel exhausted and barely holding on
  • 00:46:00.180 --> 00:46:04.051
  • Because we're like this, we're tight-fisted and gripping,
  • 00:46:04.051 --> 00:46:07.788
  • Controlling our lives, trying to make it happen.
  • 00:46:07.788 --> 00:46:10.057
  • Being still and letting go, this letting go of control, and
  • 00:46:10.057 --> 00:46:15.162
  • Letting god deliver us.
  • 00:46:15.162 --> 00:46:17.264
  • This posture of being cruciform is what transforms everything.
  • 00:46:17.264 --> 00:46:22.302
  • So can you pray right where you are into your hands, lord, i
  • 00:46:22.302 --> 00:46:25.405
  • Commit the thing that we're holding on to.
  • 00:46:25.405 --> 00:46:27.541
  • And in that space god delivers us into far more joy than we
  • 00:46:27.541 --> 00:46:30.577
  • Could possibly imagine.
  • 00:46:30.577 --> 00:46:32.246
  • Sheila: one of the things i've been doing recently is just
  • 00:46:32.246 --> 00:46:33.914
  • Reading through the gospels, just start at the beginning
  • 00:46:33.914 --> 00:46:36.416
  • Going all the way through and reading through and through.
  • 00:46:36.416 --> 00:46:38.118
  • And then i'll look at where we're at in the contemporary
  • 00:46:38.118 --> 00:46:40.721
  • Church where we've made celebrities of certain people
  • 00:46:40.721 --> 00:46:44.057
  • And this culture that's like, you know, how many followers do
  • 00:46:44.057 --> 00:46:47.094
  • You have and i'm thinking how on earth did we get to that place?
  • 00:46:47.094 --> 00:46:50.597
  • And you talk about this in this book, "loved to life" is jesus
  • 00:46:50.597 --> 00:46:55.335
  • Getting down and washing the dusty, dirty feet of his
  • 00:46:55.335 --> 00:46:59.239
  • Disciples, showing us this is what it looks like.
  • 00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:02.509
  • Ann: can we be people of the towel?
  • 00:47:02.509 --> 00:47:04.611
  • Sheila: i loved you called the people of the towel.
  • 00:47:04.611 --> 00:47:06.246
  • Ann: yes, can we be the kind of people christianity isn't about
  • 00:47:06.246 --> 00:47:10.617
  • Striving up some ladder.
  • 00:47:10.617 --> 00:47:11.952
  • It's about downward mobility.
  • 00:47:11.952 --> 00:47:14.288
  • Success is the faithfulness of going lower.
  • 00:47:14.288 --> 00:47:17.324
  • And that's what jesus does, he actually when he goes ahead and
  • 00:47:17.324 --> 00:47:20.193
  • He washes the feet of his disciples, he's incarnating,
  • 00:47:20.193 --> 00:47:24.498
  • He's embodying, he's showing us this is what it looks like to
  • 00:47:24.498 --> 00:47:28.602
  • Live a christian life, to act out this over and over and
  • 00:47:28.602 --> 00:47:33.807
  • Over again.
  • 00:47:33.807 --> 00:47:35.142
  • So what does that look like?
  • 00:47:35.142 --> 00:47:36.510
  • I think in this particular cultural moment what would it
  • 00:47:36.510 --> 00:47:38.912
  • Look like to be the people of the towel and to actually serve
  • 00:47:38.912 --> 00:47:42.316
  • Our neighbor, serve the person across the street, serve the
  • 00:47:42.316 --> 00:47:44.985
  • Person across the aisle who sees the world very differently
  • 00:47:44.985 --> 00:47:48.989
  • Than us.
  • 00:47:48.989 --> 00:47:50.357
  • It might not look like carrying a bowl across the aisle and
  • 00:47:50.357 --> 00:47:52.926
  • Washing their feet.
  • 00:47:52.926 --> 00:47:54.294
  • But what would be surprising to them, they're like, oh, i didn't
  • 00:47:54.294 --> 00:47:57.331
  • Expect that you would love me like that because love is not
  • 00:47:57.331 --> 00:48:01.068
  • Agreeing with someone, love is about sacrificing for someone.
  • 00:48:01.068 --> 00:48:05.839
  • Sheila: that's huge.
  • 00:48:05.839 --> 00:48:07.207
  • Ann: it really is because jesus is love himself.
  • 00:48:07.207 --> 00:48:09.710
  • And how does he define love?
  • 00:48:09.710 --> 00:48:11.311
  • Love is to lay your life down for your brother.
  • 00:48:11.311 --> 00:48:14.281
  • So what can you go ahead and do is say i may not agree with you,
  • 00:48:14.281 --> 00:48:17.150
  • But i will sacrifice for you.
  • 00:48:17.150 --> 00:48:18.819
  • I will corban, surrender something so that i can move
  • 00:48:18.819 --> 00:48:22.055
  • Closer to you.
  • 00:48:22.055 --> 00:48:23.423
  • I will live a cruciform life so that you get to experience more
  • 00:48:23.423 --> 00:48:25.692
  • About the love of jesus.
  • 00:48:25.692 --> 00:48:27.361
  • Sheila: over the last few weeks, every morning i go out with my
  • 00:48:27.361 --> 00:48:31.031
  • Wee dog, maggie and we walk around the lake.
  • 00:48:31.031 --> 00:48:33.266
  • And i always think of it as like way back in the beginning with
  • 00:48:33.266 --> 00:48:36.870
  • Adam and eve when they would walk with the lord in the still
  • 00:48:36.870 --> 00:48:38.872
  • Of the day.
  • 00:48:38.872 --> 00:48:40.207
  • And so i'll walk out the front door and i'll say, lord, this is
  • 00:48:40.207 --> 00:48:42.242
  • Our walk.
  • 00:48:42.242 --> 00:48:43.577
  • And the one thing i've been asking the lord recently is wash
  • 00:48:43.577 --> 00:48:47.314
  • My eyes again, you know?
  • 00:48:47.314 --> 00:48:49.182
  • I don't wanna just see people as shapes, wash my eyes again.
  • 00:48:49.182 --> 00:48:51.852
  • And the thing that keeps coming back to me over and over is him
  • 00:48:51.852 --> 00:48:55.055
  • Seeing the one.
  • 00:48:55.055 --> 00:48:56.823
  • See the one.
  • 00:48:56.823 --> 00:48:59.226
  • Don't just see a crowd if you're going to speak to someone, you
  • 00:48:59.226 --> 00:49:01.528
  • See a bunch of people, don't just see that.
  • 00:49:01.528 --> 00:49:03.096
  • See the one.
  • 00:49:03.096 --> 00:49:04.431
  • Ask me every day for eyes to see the one.
  • 00:49:04.431 --> 00:49:06.833
  • And honestly that has made major changes in my life.
  • 00:49:06.833 --> 00:49:11.104
  • And the privilege of being part of like even a silly thing.
  • 00:49:11.104 --> 00:49:15.175
  • I had somebody had given me $100 for something and for some
  • 00:49:15.175 --> 00:49:18.845
  • Reason i felt i shouldn't do anything, i should just keep it
  • 00:49:18.845 --> 00:49:21.348
  • In my pocket.
  • 00:49:21.348 --> 00:49:22.682
  • And you know, i asked the lord and then one day i'm literally
  • 00:49:22.682 --> 00:49:26.953
  • Walking somewhere and i see this woman and she's carrying trash
  • 00:49:26.953 --> 00:49:30.957
  • And the lord says the one.
  • 00:49:30.957 --> 00:49:33.226
  • And so i was thinking, lord, she's gonna think i'm nuts.
  • 00:49:33.226 --> 00:49:36.329
  • But so i said to her, hey, i just wanna say that jesus loves
  • 00:49:36.329 --> 00:49:40.000
  • You and he sees you, and i gave her that.
  • 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.469
  • She burst into tears and hugged me, and i have no idea what god
  • 00:49:42.469 --> 00:49:46.907
  • Was doing in her life, but he did.
  • 00:49:46.907 --> 00:49:48.542
  • Ann: yes, yes, when you think about the man born blind, and
  • 00:49:48.542 --> 00:49:53.980
  • How does jesus go ahead?
  • 00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:55.348
  • I've been praying this, lord, put mud on my eyes, wash my eyes
  • 00:49:55.348 --> 00:49:57.984
  • So that i could see the way you see the world.
  • 00:49:57.984 --> 00:50:01.488
  • And they all asked, you know, why was this man born blind?
  • 00:50:01.488 --> 00:50:04.991
  • Well, "he was born blind so that."
  • 00:50:04.991 --> 00:50:07.761
  • Those two words, "so that" god would be glorified.
  • 00:50:07.761 --> 00:50:11.465
  • Lord, can you go ahead and wash my eyes so that i can see the
  • 00:50:11.465 --> 00:50:14.401
  • One and then i could show up and look at the thing that's broken
  • 00:50:14.401 --> 00:50:18.004
  • In my life and this could be used so that you would be
  • 00:50:18.004 --> 00:50:21.241
  • Glorified and that person would know that they're not alone in
  • 00:50:21.241 --> 00:50:24.211
  • Their own brokenhearted story.
  • 00:50:24.211 --> 00:50:26.279
  • Sheila: okay, ann, we've only got a few minutes left, maybe
  • 00:50:26.279 --> 00:50:28.148
  • Five minutes left.
  • 00:50:28.148 --> 00:50:29.516
  • I'm wondering, would you talk to our audience?
  • 00:50:29.516 --> 00:50:31.518
  • Because there's just such a special grace and giftedness
  • 00:50:31.518 --> 00:50:35.055
  • That god has placed on your life, and i'd love you just to
  • 00:50:35.055 --> 00:50:37.924
  • Take a few minutes.
  • 00:50:37.924 --> 00:50:39.259
  • Ann: yeah, i think i do keep going back.
  • 00:50:39.259 --> 00:50:40.927
  • I think there's so much tenderness, so much suffering,
  • 00:50:40.927 --> 00:50:44.064
  • So much pain.
  • 00:50:44.064 --> 00:50:45.432
  • I do keep going back to the man born blind.
  • 00:50:45.432 --> 00:50:48.034
  • And with our questions we want to ask why, why did this happen?
  • 00:50:48.034 --> 00:50:52.639
  • In the midst of our pain and suffering.
  • 00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:54.841
  • And i think, can we go ahead and see those two words "so that."
  • 00:50:54.841 --> 00:50:59.179
  • So that god can be glorified.
  • 00:50:59.179 --> 00:51:01.515
  • I actually have a practice, sometimes i'll write down the
  • 00:51:01.515 --> 00:51:03.650
  • Things that i'm the most ashamed of on my hand when i was like,
  • 00:51:03.650 --> 00:51:06.520
  • No, no, these are the things that the lord is using for him
  • 00:51:06.520 --> 00:51:09.589
  • To be glorified.
  • 00:51:09.589 --> 00:51:10.957
  • I'll write on top of it so that.
  • 00:51:10.957 --> 00:51:12.392
  • So can you think about, even write it down in a journal.
  • 00:51:12.392 --> 00:51:14.561
  • These were the most painful parts of my life and write over
  • 00:51:14.561 --> 00:51:16.563
  • Top of that "so that" god would be glorified.
  • 00:51:16.563 --> 00:51:19.699
  • And can i shift my questions away from why was this man
  • 00:51:19.699 --> 00:51:23.503
  • Born blind?
  • 00:51:23.503 --> 00:51:24.871
  • Why did this terrible thing happen?
  • 00:51:24.871 --> 00:51:26.206
  • Why is there suffering?
  • 00:51:26.206 --> 00:51:27.574
  • Can i shift it to different questions to who?
  • 00:51:27.574 --> 00:51:29.809
  • Who is sovereign over this?
  • 00:51:29.809 --> 00:51:32.045
  • The one who is love and who is for me.
  • 00:51:32.045 --> 00:51:34.748
  • Can i shift the question from why did this happen to what?
  • 00:51:34.748 --> 00:51:38.652
  • What way will i bear this?
  • 00:51:38.652 --> 00:51:40.620
  • How will i go ahead and bear this suffering?
  • 00:51:40.620 --> 00:51:43.356
  • Can i shift the question from why did this happen to where?
  • 00:51:43.356 --> 00:51:46.526
  • Where am i in proximity, and relationship, and closeness to
  • 00:51:46.526 --> 00:51:51.097
  • Jesus through this suffering?
  • 00:51:51.097 --> 00:51:53.600
  • We want to ask why and jesus says no, where, where are you?
  • 00:51:53.600 --> 00:51:56.670
  • Come closer to me.
  • 00:51:56.670 --> 00:51:58.038
  • And finally, instead of asking why the suffering and pain, can
  • 00:51:58.038 --> 00:52:01.208
  • I shift the question to the how?
  • 00:52:01.208 --> 00:52:03.577
  • How will i live so that jesus is glorified?
  • 00:52:03.577 --> 00:52:08.448
  • So i think in the midst of our own we're all walking valleys,
  • 00:52:08.448 --> 00:52:12.252
  • We're all walking difficult roads, and to see that every
  • 00:52:12.252 --> 00:52:15.322
  • Valley is but the valley of his cupped hands and when i shift my
  • 00:52:15.322 --> 00:52:18.692
  • Questions away from the why, to the who, and the what, and the
  • 00:52:18.692 --> 00:52:23.430
  • Where, and the how will i live so that jesus is glorified.
  • 00:52:23.430 --> 00:52:27.834
  • Sheila: would you pray for our audience?
  • 00:52:27.834 --> 00:52:29.169
  • Ann: oh, i would love nothing more.
  • 00:52:29.169 --> 00:52:31.605
  • Abba father, you know, you know where every single person is
  • 00:52:31.605 --> 00:52:35.041
  • Sitting as they've been tuning in here, lord.
  • 00:52:35.041 --> 00:52:38.278
  • And we pray that their hearts might be attuned to your heart
  • 00:52:38.278 --> 00:52:41.581
  • For them and how passionately you love them, lord.
  • 00:52:41.581 --> 00:52:45.919
  • That you are the lifter of their chin, that you are the one who
  • 00:52:45.919 --> 00:52:49.489
  • Weeps with us and catches every tear in your bottle, lord, and
  • 00:52:49.489 --> 00:52:54.594
  • That you will take those tears and waste nothing and pour out
  • 00:52:54.594 --> 00:52:57.764
  • Those tears like a resurrection and a watering for new growth in
  • 00:52:57.764 --> 00:53:03.236
  • The parched places in our lives.
  • 00:53:03.236 --> 00:53:05.805
  • So lord, you know the unspoken broken we have and that we
  • 00:53:05.805 --> 00:53:08.908
  • Right now and just in that posture of being cruciform that
  • 00:53:08.908 --> 00:53:12.078
  • We might be still and open our hands and let go and say into
  • 00:53:12.078 --> 00:53:16.549
  • Your hands, lord, we entrust this, fill in the blank, this
  • 00:53:16.549 --> 00:53:20.053
  • Hard story, lord, this place that is so difficult we entrust
  • 00:53:20.053 --> 00:53:23.189
  • It into your scarred hands that went to the cross and stretched
  • 00:53:23.189 --> 00:53:28.595
  • Your arms out so wide that you said, i love you this much.
  • 00:53:28.595 --> 00:53:32.632
  • We can entrust it to you who is love himself, because you are
  • 00:53:32.632 --> 00:53:37.170
  • Redeeming all things for good, lord, and in your time and in
  • 00:53:37.170 --> 00:53:41.107
  • Your way.
  • 00:53:41.107 --> 00:53:42.475
  • We thank you, lord, that our identity is that we are the ones
  • 00:53:42.475 --> 00:53:46.946
  • Whom you've loved, loved to death and back to the realest
  • 00:53:46.946 --> 00:53:51.184
  • Life in yourself.
  • 00:53:51.184 --> 00:53:53.620
  • Thank you, lord for being our lifter and the lover of our
  • 00:53:53.620 --> 00:53:56.489
  • Souls and we go ahead and we say loss does not mean that you
  • 00:53:56.489 --> 00:53:59.793
  • Don't love us, but you call us your beloved.
  • 00:53:59.793 --> 00:54:03.530
  • We pray all of these things in the name of jesus, the only one
  • 00:54:03.530 --> 00:54:07.200
  • Who's ever loved us to death and back to the realest life.
  • 00:54:07.200 --> 00:54:10.437
  • Ann: amen. sheila: amen.
  • 00:54:10.437 --> 00:54:12.706
  • That is absolutely beautiful. ann's book is "loved to life."
  • 00:54:12.706 --> 00:54:16.676
  • You will love this book.
  • 00:54:16.676 --> 00:54:18.712
  • There's so much richness and giftedness, and ann i just wanna
  • 00:54:18.712 --> 00:54:22.449
  • Thank you.
  • 00:54:22.449 --> 00:54:23.783
  • I mean, it's still you will live way up in canada and you have to
  • 00:54:23.783 --> 00:54:25.952
  • Go through all sorts of things.
  • 00:54:25.952 --> 00:54:27.320
  • Ann: i will say it again anytime, anytime you all get to
  • 00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.323
  • Be in the room with sheila walsh, your soul is the richer
  • 00:54:30.323 --> 00:54:34.127
  • For it because jesus exudes from your every word.
  • 00:54:34.127 --> 00:54:37.931
  • I love you to the moon and back.
  • 00:54:37.931 --> 00:54:39.766
  • Sheila: ann, it's the same for me.
  • 00:54:39.766 --> 00:54:41.101
  • Go hug your sheep for me.
  • 00:54:41.101 --> 00:54:42.836
  • Ann: you and i, and every time to hug the sheep to know that we
  • 00:54:42.836 --> 00:54:45.839
  • Are the ones whom jesus carries like little lambs all the
  • 00:54:45.839 --> 00:54:49.142
  • Way home.
  • 00:54:49.142 --> 00:54:50.744
  • Sheila: thank you so much for being with us today and that is
  • 00:54:50.744 --> 00:54:53.947
  • The bottom line, that's the message of tbn.
  • 00:54:53.947 --> 00:54:56.883
  • You are loved by a god who would not live without you.
  • 00:54:56.883 --> 00:55:00.019
  • So on behalf of matt and laurie and all the people you don't see
  • 00:55:00.019 --> 00:55:03.490
  • In front of the camera because there's a lot of us, but we're
  • 00:55:03.490 --> 00:55:06.426
  • Here for the same reason to let you know you're seen, you are
  • 00:55:06.426 --> 00:55:10.130
  • Known, and you are loved, and we will talk to you next time.
  • 00:55:10.130 --> 00:55:14.300
  • God bless you all.
  • 00:55:14.300 --> 00:55:16.035
  • ♪♪♪
  • 00:55:16.035 --> 00:55:30.010