Matt and Laurie Crouch welcome Harold Eberle and Martin Trench for an in-depth discussion on eschatology. Join them as they explore the biblical perspectives on the future, offering insights that will deepen your understanding of prophecy, hope, and God’s promises.
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Praise | Harold Eberle & Martin Trench: Exploring Biblical Prophecy | Praise | June 23, 2025
- Coming up tonight on praise...
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- When god plants something, it's an invisible work of the
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- Kingdom, but eventually it will break through the surface and
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- We will see that you've become a changed person.
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- I think he makes divine appointments.
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- I think he arranges people into alignment.
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- So i put all that in the package of the kingdom
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- Manifesting this earth.
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- Jesus has authority, he's with me.
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- ♪♪
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- A perfect setting today for the topic of kingdom.
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- Doctor martin trench, we hear that term a lot.
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- Okay.
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- The kingdom of god is at hand.
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- The kingdom of god is within us,
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- Jesus said. there's a lot of things.
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- This is a representative of somebody's kingdom here, this
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- Amazing looking, kind of
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- Library setting, in an amazing location.
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- So we're sometimes
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- Thinking physical kingdoms, palaces.
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- We're thinking of those types of things.
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- Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this earth.
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- Okay. we understand everything is counterintuitive.
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- You know, we understand that in the kingdom.
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- If you wanna be the first, you have to be a servant.
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- There's all sorts of counterintuitive things.
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- But this one's the trickiest to explain.
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- You're a doctor, you're a theologian, i'm not.
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- Your job is to help me explain
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- This hard to understand concept of the kingdom.
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- Where is it?
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- If it's not here, then how does it play out through us?
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- These are the topics of today's conversation.
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- Help me with that.
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- And let me just give you the floor for a few minutes.
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- Try to help me set it up, and then we're going to unpack it
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- So the problem with the phrase the kingdom of god is that in
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- For a while.
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- Western minds, it conjures up a particular image of like a
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- Monarch and with laws and rules and everyone must obey them.
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- And the people in that kingdom, they may love the king or they
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- May hate him, but they have to obey him anyway.
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- It's all external, it's all about force.
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- But you know jesus and his disciples spoke aramaic, they
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- Didn't speak english.
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- And one of the really interesting things about
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- Aramaic and hebrew actually is that the word kingdom, it
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- Doesn't imply force and it doesn't imply coercion.
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- In fact some aramaic scholars would prefer to
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- Translate it as the counsel of god.
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- Like a king would give people counsel,
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- But the king wouldn't go with them and make sure they did it,
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- You know.
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- And so the counsel of god comes to us, the will of god, the
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- Mind of god.
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- And so if we think of the kingdom that way,
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- Than god giving decrees that we must mindlessly follow, and
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- That's a kingdom with subjects, if we think of it as god is
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- Influencing our life in such a way that we are changing into
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- The kind of people that he always intended us to be and
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- Therefore our actions will become more in line with the
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- Will of god.
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- Not because we are trying to check off a list of actions but
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- Because we are being transformed.
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- So if you think about the way jesus described the kingdom, it
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- Always started hidden.
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- It's yeast that's put into a batch of dough.
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- You don't see what's happening but the dough is gradually
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- Changing into a different kind of dough, the kind of dough
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- That when it's put in the oven it will rise.
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- And if the kingdom of god, the counsel of god is coming into
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- Our life in a hidden way that is not obvious to others.
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- We are being changed.
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- The dough, the human being, is being changed into a different
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- Kind of human being and we will rise to the occasion when
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- Something is needing to be done.
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- Or the kingdom is like a seed that's put under the soil and
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- Jesus said it begins to grow all by itself.
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- The farmer doesn't even know how.
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- Or we could think of jesus saying the kingdom of god is
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- Within us.
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- Or we could think of paul saying the kingdom of god is
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- Not about external things like what food you can eat and what
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- Drinks you can drink. it's about righteousness, peace and
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- Joy in the holy spirit.
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- So all of these kingdom concepts suggest that the
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- Kingdom isn't something that comes from outside of us.
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- In fact jesus said that the kingdom of god doesn't come in
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- A way that people can say there it is or here it is.
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- Behold the kingdom of god is within you.
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- And so if we open our lives to god, if we allow his counsel,
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- If we allow his guidance, if we allow his spirit to influence
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- Us, we become different people.
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- And as a result of that whatever we do at home,
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- With our hobbies, at work, at church, everywhere we are,
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- We take our changed selves with us and so we then become
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- Kingdom ambassadors
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- In any situation in life.
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- We might be doing the same job that we did before but we are
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- Now a different person doing that job and therefore there's
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- A different influence coming out from us.
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- You've broadened the description for me here, so
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- You're saying no matter what you do
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- You should consider this
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- Kingdom maybe better translated counsel.
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- Could that be orders for a war fighter?
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- It could be.
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- In fact if you think of a kingdom, let's think of king
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- David in the old testament because the messiah was to come
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- From the line of david and david and his descendants had a
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- Temporary kingdom but the messiah would have one that
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- Would never end.
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- So if you think of that, there were times that david as the
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- King had to lead his people into battle.
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- There were times that he had to make provisions for the
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- Building of the temple.
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- A kingdom involves all sorts of things, not just one thing.
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- Involves every aspect of life. so from a person
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- Behind a pulpit to a person in a computing job of some sort,
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- Coding, something like that, all the way to someone that
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- Might be even in the military, you're not excluded from this
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- Kingdom because it isn't what you're doing, it's that you're
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- Going with the counsel of the king.
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- Exactly.
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- So sometimes we think that certain jobs or certain
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- Activities are kingdom work and other things aren't.
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- And so we might think that a missionary to a third world
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- Country is doing kingdom work but the chef in the restaurant
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- Down the road is not doing kingdom work.
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- But actually if he's in the kingdom or if the kingdom's in
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- Him then he's doing kingdom work wherever he is and
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- If he comes into the kingdom, i don't mean he's preaching the
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- Gospel, but he's influencing like leaven, he's influencing
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- The world around him, his world, the people around him
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- And so on.
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- And yes, even in the early church we see the early church
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- Fathers writing things about what about soldiers in the
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- Roman army who have now become christians?
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- And in fact we even see it in the gospels john the baptist
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- Said, you know, don't take bribes
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- And know obey your orders but don't oppress the people kind
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- Of thing.
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- It wasn't like they had to leave the roman military
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- Because they were now a christian. the kingdom had come
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- Into them and they could be an outpost of the kingdom wherever
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- They are, in the military, in the government, at home, with
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- Their family, wherever we are we are carrying that
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- Kingdom with us.
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- So it's not like some activities are kingdom
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- Activities and other activities are not, or it's not like
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- There's a kingdom way to do something and not a kingdom
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- Way. it's we are being gradually changed
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- No matter what we're doing. no matter what we're doing.
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- And the fruit of a chef would be that the other kitchen
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- Employees come to work because it's a camaraderie thing and
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- They're enjoying their life there.
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- They're not oppressed there.
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- You as the chef, you could be, you know, you could be
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- Presenting a version of hell's kitchen, like the famous tv
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- Show, or it could be, you know,
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- In essence, a peaceful environment.
- 00:10:04.727 --> 00:10:07.830
- Yeah. and you're having influence and everything from
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- The food is excellent and you have a successful restaurant to
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- The people enjoy being there and coming to work.
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- That is a way to represent the kingdom no matter what you do.
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- So the atmosphere has changed in that place.
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- You've changed your atmosphere wherever it is.
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- Yes, and so here's an example.
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- Sometimes people might think, if i want to do something for
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- The kingdom i need to become a preacher or an evangelist or
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- Something, and if they try to do that but it's not the counsel
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- Of god for their life, we can
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- Do things with no inner peace inside.
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- We can do things out of anxiety, out of striving to
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- Make something happen.
- 00:10:51.807 --> 00:10:54.076
- Very often we are striving to
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- Make something happen for god, right?
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- But everything must come out of peace because the kingdom is
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- Righteousness, peace and joy in the holy spirit.
- 00:11:02.084 --> 00:11:07.723
- Now it is righteousness and righteousness involves making
- 00:11:07.723 --> 00:11:10.659
- Wrong things right.
- 00:11:10.659 --> 00:11:13.562
- So if i was a president and i was a christian and there were
- 00:11:13.562 --> 00:11:18.033
- Things that were wrong, i would perhaps pass executive orders
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- Or something to make those things right.
- 00:11:22.638 --> 00:11:25.508
- If i was the chef and there was a staff member on my team who
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- Was causing division and upset
- 00:11:31.413 --> 00:11:33.215
- And so on, i would need to deal with
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- That to make it right.
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- If you're a police officer you're patrolling the streets
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- And maybe tackling a bad guy and arresting them, if that's
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- What you have to do. you can represent the kingdom in no
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- Matter what you do.
- 00:11:49.131 --> 00:11:50.432
- Exactly. the important thing is that the joy of the lord is our
- 00:11:50.432 --> 00:11:55.304
- Strength, we're doing it in god's strength, and that
- 00:11:55.304 --> 00:11:58.240
- There's a peace that we know we are in the counsel of god for
- 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:03.279
- So we're putting things right with peace and with the joy of
- 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:03.679
- Our life.
- 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:03.946
- The lord being our strength.
- 00:12:06.749 --> 00:12:08.017
- You know it's always been a just a difficult thing to kind
- 00:12:08.017 --> 00:12:11.487
- Of understand.
- 00:12:11.487 --> 00:12:12.888
- You know, we've we've heard different groups pop up here
- 00:12:12.888 --> 00:12:17.526
- And pop up there and use the word kingdom and
- 00:12:17.526 --> 00:12:23.632
- Some of it's just hard for us to get our our head around.
- 00:12:23.632 --> 00:12:27.837
- And you're talking about practically.
- 00:12:27.837 --> 00:12:29.672
- I appreciate that.
- 00:12:29.672 --> 00:12:31.207
- Doctor martin trench, your
- 00:12:31.207 --> 00:12:33.776
- Book, this victorious eschatology,
- 00:12:33.776 --> 00:12:37.046
- Is how we got to know each other.
- 00:12:37.046 --> 00:12:40.316
- And if you don't have this book, i would encourage you to
- 00:12:40.316 --> 00:12:43.853
- Get it.
- 00:12:43.853 --> 00:12:44.987
- And it's available on amazon, that kind of thing.
- 00:12:44.987 --> 00:12:49.959
- So, victorious eschatology, and you're
- 00:12:49.959 --> 00:12:54.496
- Suggesting in your book, we're talking about the kingdom, but
- 00:12:54.496 --> 00:12:58.868
- Your eschatology says the kingdom is present, it's at
- 00:12:58.868 --> 00:13:03.472
- Hand, it's in us. we're not waiting for jesus to bring it
- 00:13:03.472 --> 00:13:07.476
- To us.
- 00:13:07.476 --> 00:13:08.110
- Yes. is that true?
- 00:13:08.110 --> 00:13:09.511
- So it is true,
- 00:13:09.511 --> 00:13:11.981
- But we have to be clearer about it.
- 00:13:11.981 --> 00:13:15.351
- So you're right, lots of different groups emphasize
- 00:13:15.351 --> 00:13:18.654
- Different things.
- 00:13:18.654 --> 00:13:20.389
- Some christian groups will talk about the kingdom will come
- 00:13:20.389 --> 00:13:24.126
- When jesus comes back.
- 00:13:24.126 --> 00:13:25.828
- He will return as king to set up his kingdom.
- 00:13:25.828 --> 00:13:29.531
- Then there's other groups that will talk about kingdom now,
- 00:13:29.531 --> 00:13:32.501
- The kingdom is here now and that we should be establishing
- 00:13:32.501 --> 00:13:35.571
- The kingdom on earth.
- 00:13:35.571 --> 00:13:37.206
- And then there's maybe more mystical type christians who
- 00:13:37.206 --> 00:13:40.776
- The kingdom is just all an internal relationship with god
- 00:13:40.776 --> 00:13:45.314
- Because the kingdom is within us.
- 00:13:45.314 --> 00:13:48.751
- All of that is true.
- 00:13:48.751 --> 00:13:51.220
- These are different aspects of the one kingdom.
- 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:54.924
- So it is true that the kingdom
- 00:13:54.924 --> 00:13:56.592
- Of god is a personal experience.
- 00:13:56.592 --> 00:13:59.495
- Unless a man is born again he
- 00:13:59.495 --> 00:14:02.731
- Shall not enter the kingdom of god.
- 00:14:02.731 --> 00:14:06.535
- So it begins at new birth, begins at conversion, and then so
- 00:14:06.535 --> 00:14:12.107
- The kingdom is within us and as we grow in our knowledge of
- 00:14:12.107 --> 00:14:15.744
- God, as we grow in our relationship with god, that
- 00:14:15.744 --> 00:14:19.381
- Kingdom expands within us, it transforms us and so everything
- 00:14:19.381 --> 00:14:24.253
- We do then is an expression of the kingdom.
- 00:14:24.253 --> 00:14:28.257
- So it's here now, so yes it's within us spiritually, yes it's
- 00:14:28.257 --> 00:14:32.661
- Here now and we will continue to influence the world with the
- 00:14:32.661 --> 00:14:38.200
- Presence of the kingdom.
- 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:39.668
- The kingdom will grow and will expand until jesus returns to
- 00:14:39.668 --> 00:14:45.674
- Bring to a full consummation his kingdom.
- 00:14:45.674 --> 00:14:50.112
- And so i think that many christian groups are focusing
- 00:14:50.112 --> 00:14:53.315
- On one aspect of the kingdom, but i think if we could enlarge
- 00:14:53.315 --> 00:14:56.585
- It and see it as it basically is the new life that we are now
- 00:14:56.585 --> 00:15:00.522
- Living, and that life is not a lifestyle but a life that comes
- 00:15:00.522 --> 00:15:06.996
- Into us and changes us.
- 00:15:06.996 --> 00:15:10.165
- You know, you could have two people that both on the outside
- 00:15:10.165 --> 00:15:15.471
- Are leading the same lifestyle, morally speaking, right?
- 00:15:15.471 --> 00:15:20.275
- But one of them is doing it because he's been given a list
- 00:15:20.275 --> 00:15:23.479
- Of rules to obey and the other one's doing it because his
- 00:15:23.479 --> 00:15:26.915
- Heart has been changed by the love of god, and that's the big
- 00:15:26.915 --> 00:15:30.519
- Difference. i think, that one is kingdom.
- 00:15:30.519 --> 00:16:20.335
- What does god want us to be like?
- 00:16:23.505 --> 00:16:26.642
- If we are living in the mindset of a victorious eschatology and
- 00:16:26.642 --> 00:16:35.184
- The kingdom hasn't been slid out from underneath us and
- 00:16:35.184 --> 00:16:38.754
- Thrown into the future somewhere, it's here now, it's
- 00:16:38.754 --> 00:16:41.523
- At hand, it's within us,
- 00:16:41.523 --> 00:16:44.660
- Then how does that change what we do and how we act and how we
- 00:16:44.660 --> 00:16:51.300
- Represent that king on earth?
- 00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:54.837
- The earth is the lord's, the fullness thereof, and all they
- 00:16:54.837 --> 00:16:58.307
- That dwell therein.
- 00:16:58.307 --> 00:16:59.942
- We represent that.
- 00:16:59.942 --> 00:17:01.076
- We're his emissaries.
- 00:17:01.076 --> 00:17:03.612
- Okay? help me explain,
- 00:17:03.612 --> 00:17:07.516
- A often misunderstood or maybe worse, ignored part of the
- 00:17:07.516 --> 00:17:14.957
- Central message of jesus' teaching.
- 00:17:14.957 --> 00:17:17.893
- Help me with that.
- 00:17:17.893 --> 00:17:20.362
- So first, i would want to emphasize what you're saying,
- 00:17:20.362 --> 00:17:24.533
- That the gospel should be communicated not just as jesus
- 00:17:24.533 --> 00:17:29.905
- Died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.
- 00:17:29.905 --> 00:17:32.908
- That's part of the gospel.
- 00:17:32.908 --> 00:17:34.810
- But the other side is he resurrected, ascended, and sat
- 00:17:34.810 --> 00:17:38.547
- Down on a throne, that he's king.
- 00:17:38.547 --> 00:17:41.550
- So i would want to make sure everyone listening to this
- 00:17:41.550 --> 00:17:45.554
- Understands that we're talking about a much broader
- 00:17:45.554 --> 00:17:49.391
- Understanding of the gospel, and we call it the gospel of
- 00:17:49.391 --> 00:17:52.461
- The kingdom.
- 00:17:52.461 --> 00:17:53.695
- So we would say, it's the fact that jesus is sitting on a
- 00:17:53.695 --> 00:17:57.566
- Throne and he reigns.
- 00:17:57.566 --> 00:18:01.503
- But now his kingdom is growing on the earth, but we can
- 00:18:01.503 --> 00:18:05.707
- Experience it today because by submitting our hearts to him,
- 00:18:05.707 --> 00:18:10.879
- We are submitting to the king, and his kingdom will flow
- 00:18:10.879 --> 00:18:14.616
- Through us.
- 00:18:14.616 --> 00:18:16.318
- So whenever our hearts are submitted to the king, his
- 00:18:16.318 --> 00:18:20.622
- Reign will flow through us.
- 00:18:20.622 --> 00:18:22.991
- So what does that look like?
- 00:18:22.991 --> 00:18:25.627
- First, i can take when paul said, the kingdom consists in
- 00:18:25.627 --> 00:18:29.264
- Righteousness, peace, and joy.
- 00:18:29.264 --> 00:18:31.433
- Therefore, if i am bringing the kingdom, for example, while i'm
- 00:18:31.433 --> 00:18:35.637
- At work or at school or at home,
- 00:18:35.637 --> 00:18:39.541
- It should result in an increase
- 00:18:39.541 --> 00:18:42.744
- In righteousness, peace, and joy.
- 00:18:42.744 --> 00:18:45.914
- So he says it consists of that.
- 00:18:45.914 --> 00:18:48.183
- That's what it's gonna look like.
- 00:18:48.183 --> 00:18:49.751
- That's what will appear if i'm truly submitted to king jesus.
- 00:18:49.751 --> 00:18:55.524
- He also says in another passage, the kingdom consists
- 00:18:55.524 --> 00:18:58.560
- In power.
- 00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:00.028
- So i would expect
- 00:19:00.028 --> 00:19:02.664
- Some addition, something is being added to my life that
- 00:19:02.664 --> 00:19:08.470
- Gives me an edge, gives me a push.
- 00:19:08.470 --> 00:19:11.039
- I'll meet the right people at the right time.
- 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.942
- I'll have enough money will come in when i'm ready to
- 00:19:13.942 --> 00:19:17.246
- Follow his will in some area.
- 00:19:17.246 --> 00:19:19.781
- I embrace with the kingdom an awareness there is a guidance
- 00:19:19.781 --> 00:19:23.619
- System because he is king.
- 00:19:23.619 --> 00:19:26.722
- So i'm trying to put together what does it look like, how is
- 00:19:26.722 --> 00:19:30.092
- It gonna manifest.
- 00:19:30.092 --> 00:19:31.493
- I hope we can accept already the idea that every area of
- 00:19:31.493 --> 00:19:35.264
- Society this would work in.
- 00:19:35.264 --> 00:19:37.866
- Wherever we are, if my will, my heart is in submission to king
- 00:19:37.866 --> 00:19:42.337
- Jesus, these things will begin to manifest: righteousness,
- 00:19:42.337 --> 00:19:46.341
- Peace, and joy.
- 00:19:46.341 --> 00:19:48.510
- So when i come across businessmen or people in
- 00:19:48.510 --> 00:19:51.913
- Political offices, they seem most aware of this transition.
- 00:19:51.913 --> 00:19:57.719
- There's been a lot of talk in recent years about the kingdom,
- 00:19:57.719 --> 00:20:01.823
- And there's a lot of business people who are starting to grab
- 00:20:01.823 --> 00:20:04.826
- The message.
- 00:20:04.826 --> 00:20:05.994
- And there are a lot of
- 00:20:05.994 --> 00:20:07.129
- Political leaders, too, who do believe.
- 00:20:07.129 --> 00:20:10.766
- At the same time, i would want to distinguish it from the
- 00:20:10.766 --> 00:20:15.637
- Islamic understanding
- 00:20:15.637 --> 00:20:18.273
- That to bring the will of god
- 00:20:18.273 --> 00:20:20.275
- To earth is to bring sharia law.
- 00:20:20.275 --> 00:20:24.846
- And it's very impossible that some people, what they're
- 00:20:24.846 --> 00:20:27.949
- Thinking of to bring the kingdom is to enforce the law
- 00:20:27.949 --> 00:20:33.021
- Of god
- 00:20:33.021 --> 00:20:35.324
- As you will do this, you will do this, you will do this, you
- 00:20:35.324 --> 00:20:38.427
- Will do this.
- 00:20:38.427 --> 00:20:39.661
- So i wanna make a distinction that that's not what we're
- 00:20:39.661 --> 00:20:42.230
- Talking about, sharia law.
- 00:20:42.230 --> 00:20:44.800
- We're talking about righteousness, peace, and joy.
- 00:20:44.800 --> 00:20:47.436
- So my wife, being a school teacher,
- 00:20:47.436 --> 00:20:52.341
- She focused on trying to bring into her public school
- 00:20:52.341 --> 00:20:56.712
- Classroom righteousness, peace, and joy.
- 00:20:56.712 --> 00:21:00.282
- If it truly the grace of god was leading her, there would be
- 00:21:00.282 --> 00:21:05.654
- An increase in the children's
- 00:21:05.654 --> 00:21:07.289
- Ability to learn, in their attentiveness.
- 00:21:07.289 --> 00:21:10.759
- So i wanna add one more thing.
- 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.462
- So righteousness, peace, and
- 00:21:13.462 --> 00:21:14.563
- Joy, and power, including a guidance.
- 00:21:14.563 --> 00:21:17.299
- I would like to include one
- 00:21:17.299 --> 00:21:18.400
- More element that i expect to see.
- 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.636
- If king jesus is reigning, and his reign is coming through,
- 00:21:21.636 --> 00:21:26.274
- Are several scriptures that talk about jesus manifesting in
- 00:21:26.274 --> 00:21:30.746
- Our mortal flesh, that literally jesus lives within
- 00:21:30.746 --> 00:21:34.282
- Us, and when he rises in us, there's always a tangible
- 00:21:34.282 --> 00:21:39.554
- Effect on the world around us.
- 00:21:39.554 --> 00:21:41.790
- Because in the presence of jesus, every knee bows, every
- 00:21:41.790 --> 00:21:44.493
- Tongue confesses.
- 00:21:44.493 --> 00:21:46.228
- I believe that.
- 00:21:46.228 --> 00:21:47.496
- I believe there is literally, when you and i yield to king
- 00:21:47.496 --> 00:21:51.032
- Jesus, that somehow his words come out.
- 00:21:51.032 --> 00:21:55.704
- Sometimes he aligns our thoughts.
- 00:21:55.704 --> 00:21:58.974
- I would look to i john 2:27, the anointing,
- 00:21:58.974 --> 00:22:03.545
- Which is the flow of the holy spirit, teaches you.
- 00:22:03.545 --> 00:22:06.548
- I think that there is this guidance system, but also the
- 00:22:06.548 --> 00:22:10.285
- Flow of the holy spirit.
- 00:22:10.285 --> 00:22:11.653
- So what i'm trying to describe as an additional
- 00:22:11.653 --> 00:22:15.657
- Realization that the kingdom is coming into this place is that
- 00:22:15.657 --> 00:22:19.728
- Jesus' presence is coming where there is a bowing, there is a
- 00:22:19.728 --> 00:22:23.832
- Yielding, doors open, waters part.
- 00:22:23.832 --> 00:22:27.536
- So i travel to a lot of other countries.
- 00:22:27.536 --> 00:22:31.039
- I expect that if i'm going in there and jesus is truly
- 00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:35.143
- Leading, i'm gonna meet the right people at the right time.
- 00:22:35.143 --> 00:22:38.947
- For some reason, phone's gonna ring at the right time.
- 00:22:38.947 --> 00:22:42.784
- God is guiding me to meet you at the right time.
- 00:22:42.784 --> 00:22:47.689
- Whatever god's plan is, i believe that there's actually a
- 00:22:47.689 --> 00:22:51.593
- Yielding in people, and it includes finances, too, that
- 00:22:51.593 --> 00:22:56.565
- People want to give.
- 00:22:56.565 --> 00:22:58.066
- So i'm taking this from matthew 5.
- 00:22:58.066 --> 00:23:01.470
- Jesus gives the sermon on the mount, chapter six and chapter
- 00:23:01.470 --> 00:23:05.173
- Seven, but towards the end of chapter six, he says, seek
- 00:23:05.173 --> 00:23:08.443
- First the kingdom, and all
- 00:23:08.443 --> 00:23:10.011
- These things will be added unto you.
- 00:23:10.011 --> 00:23:12.380
- I believe that there is an adding, something where things
- 00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:17.185
- Go your way.
- 00:23:17.185 --> 00:23:18.653
- Why? because the king is with you.
- 00:23:18.653 --> 00:23:22.190
- But now the kingdom consists in peace, righteousness.
- 00:23:22.190 --> 00:23:26.895
- I'm out of the kingdom if i'm
- 00:23:26.895 --> 00:23:28.897
- Not experiencing peace and righteousness.
- 00:23:28.897 --> 00:23:31.766
- In fact, that has been kind of a guidance system for me when
- 00:23:31.766 --> 00:23:34.569
- Sometimes i get listening to one political side or the other
- 00:23:34.569 --> 00:23:40.041
- It can create anxiety in my heart, and i think i'm actually
- 00:23:40.041 --> 00:23:40.442
- Too much.
- 00:23:40.442 --> 00:23:41.243
- Slipping out of the kingdom, wherein it's one thing to
- 00:23:44.779 --> 00:23:47.949
- Inform yourself.
- 00:23:47.949 --> 00:23:49.217
- It's another thing to feed on
- 00:23:49.217 --> 00:23:51.953
- Where it has become anger or division.
- 00:23:51.953 --> 00:23:54.689
- There's a line you cross where i think we can actually slip
- 00:23:54.689 --> 00:23:58.126
- Out from under the blessing of the kingdom.
- 00:23:58.126 --> 00:24:03.164
- And when i start watching different anxieties rise in my
- 00:24:03.164 --> 00:24:07.168
- Heart, i'm probably not-- my heart's probably not in the
- 00:24:07.168 --> 00:24:10.739
- Right place to be that vessel that i should be, and i will
- 00:24:10.739 --> 00:24:14.276
- Actually be radiating, emanating, creating anxiety in
- 00:24:14.276 --> 00:24:18.647
- Other people.
- 00:24:18.647 --> 00:24:19.981
- There's a posture in the kingdom of royalty that if i am
- 00:24:19.981 --> 00:24:25.186
- Truly under king jesus, one of his children, it should change
- 00:24:25.186 --> 00:24:30.091
- My posture.
- 00:24:30.091 --> 00:24:31.059
- It should change in me unknowing
- 00:24:31.059 --> 00:24:35.397
- Because of this manifesting of jesus that i have authority to
- 00:24:35.397 --> 00:24:38.767
- Go where he's sending me.
- 00:24:38.767 --> 00:24:40.368
- Because i have authority, things should yield.
- 00:24:40.368 --> 00:24:44.739
- I should, somehow the right
- 00:24:44.739 --> 00:24:46.908
- Topics come up at the right time.
- 00:24:46.908 --> 00:24:49.778
- Even when sometimes i realize i want to say something, but i
- 00:24:49.778 --> 00:24:52.781
- Don't know if that person's ready, i'll ask the lord,
- 00:24:52.781 --> 00:24:55.584
- Please make the opportunity.
- 00:24:55.584 --> 00:24:57.586
- And it seems like two or three days later, it's like they come
- 00:24:57.586 --> 00:25:00.522
- To me wanting to know what i was wanting to say.
- 00:25:00.522 --> 00:25:04.693
- I think he makes divine appointments.
- 00:25:04.693 --> 00:25:06.528
- I think he arranges people into alignment.
- 00:25:06.528 --> 00:25:10.165
- So i put all that in the package of the kingdom
- 00:25:10.165 --> 00:25:13.168
- Manifesting this earth.
- 00:25:13.168 --> 00:25:15.003
- I think a business person should expect
- 00:25:15.003 --> 00:25:18.640
- To know who to hire.
- 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:19.808
- There's a guidance system.
- 00:25:19.808 --> 00:25:21.610
- They should be able to have a sense of royalty about them,
- 00:25:21.610 --> 00:25:25.880
- Knowing that this will work out.
- 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:28.016
- Jesus has authority.
- 00:25:28.016 --> 00:25:29.250
- He's with me.
- 00:25:29.250 --> 00:25:30.819
- Therefore, i have a confidence to do what i'm doing wherever
- 00:25:30.819 --> 00:25:36.024
- I'm working.
- 00:25:36.024 --> 00:25:37.726
- Victorious eschatology
- 00:25:37.726 --> 00:25:40.195
- Is not very often heard in the same sentence.
- 00:25:40.195 --> 00:25:45.567
- Victorious eschatology is
- 00:25:45.567 --> 00:25:49.037
- A new way to thank.
- 00:25:49.037 --> 00:25:51.306
- Doctor harold eberle, thank you for
- 00:25:51.306 --> 00:25:56.511
- Sitting down with me.
- 00:25:56.511 --> 00:25:57.812
- A little earlier, you said and you made the distinction that
- 00:25:57.812 --> 00:26:03.518
- If you just waved a wand,
- 00:26:03.518 --> 00:26:08.356
- Most people would say the best way to get god's kingdom
- 00:26:08.356 --> 00:26:12.360
- Established is that everyone just towed the line, followed
- 00:26:12.360 --> 00:26:16.798
- The rules, every law would legislate morality globally in
- 00:26:16.798 --> 00:26:22.337
- Every language, in every place, and you would just kind of have
- 00:26:22.337 --> 00:26:27.275
- Kings all over, and they would all, you know, and look, that's
- 00:26:27.275 --> 00:26:32.447
- Not a bad thing to think it's certainly not bad, but that's
- 00:26:32.447 --> 00:26:35.483
- Really not what you're talking about.
- 00:26:35.483 --> 00:26:36.918
- We're not talking about overcoming
- 00:26:36.918 --> 00:26:39.821
- Other people groups with a military force or any kind of
- 00:26:39.821 --> 00:26:43.892
- Like that.
- 00:26:43.892 --> 00:26:44.926
- It's about the ones that are emissaries on earth.
- 00:26:44.926 --> 00:26:48.396
- Again, the earth is the lord's and the fullness thereof and
- 00:26:48.396 --> 00:26:52.033
- All they that dwell there.
- 00:26:52.033 --> 00:26:54.035
- If we are followers of jesus, we have one way to establish
- 00:26:54.035 --> 00:26:57.772
- That kingdom, and that is to have righteousness, peace, and
- 00:26:57.772 --> 00:27:01.710
- Joy no matter what as much as we can, that is going to lead
- 00:27:01.710 --> 00:27:08.216
- To the right doors, following the right things, with the
- 00:27:08.216 --> 00:27:12.220
- Right expectations,
- 00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:14.456
- And something good.
- 00:27:14.456 --> 00:27:15.790
- Let's go back to the something
- 00:27:15.790 --> 00:27:17.625
- Good is going to happen to me today.
- 00:27:17.625 --> 00:27:20.462
- Yes. that is a kingdom mindset on earth present.
- 00:27:20.462 --> 00:27:25.066
- Can i give a couple examples of things like, let's put it in a
- 00:27:25.066 --> 00:27:29.504
- Couple situations, for example?
- 00:27:29.504 --> 00:27:30.805
- Example number one, you're in a counseling situation.
- 00:27:30.805 --> 00:27:33.908
- Let's say you're a counselor.
- 00:27:33.908 --> 00:27:35.610
- I think like normally you would start a counseling discussion
- 00:27:35.610 --> 00:27:39.748
- Off, the counselor would, already knowing what they're
- 00:27:39.748 --> 00:27:43.284
- They've started many conversations.
- 00:27:43.284 --> 00:27:43.685
- Gonna say.
- 00:27:43.685 --> 00:27:43.952
- But i believe if god's present, there's a moment in the
- 00:27:45.286 --> 00:27:50.658
- Conversation when it seems like question, answer, something
- 00:27:50.658 --> 00:27:55.396
- Takes over.
- 00:27:55.396 --> 00:27:57.031
- And it's almost like the conversation's being guided.
- 00:27:57.031 --> 00:28:00.201
- It feels like you can have, i call it the god factor.
- 00:28:00.201 --> 00:28:04.339
- You can have a counseling situation, but then it's like
- 00:28:04.339 --> 00:28:06.841
- Something came into the room, and somehow the questions and
- 00:28:06.841 --> 00:28:10.445
- Answers are guiding, and both of you are surprised where it's
- 00:28:10.445 --> 00:28:14.048
- Going, or you're just delighted that it's going that way.
- 00:28:14.048 --> 00:28:17.719
- I think the same thing can happen in a worship service.
- 00:28:17.719 --> 00:28:20.455
- Somebody can start off with talents, and it's great music,
- 00:28:20.455 --> 00:28:24.793
- But when the presence of god comes, jesus manifests, it's
- 00:28:24.793 --> 00:28:28.630
- Like the hearts of the people yield, they bow, because in the
- 00:28:28.630 --> 00:28:32.167
- Presence of jesus, there's a tangible effect.
- 00:28:32.167 --> 00:28:35.103
- Something happens in the room where the worship leader knows,
- 00:28:35.103 --> 00:28:39.240
- No, i should sing this a little longer, something's guiding.
- 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:43.011
- I think it can happen in business.
- 00:28:43.011 --> 00:28:45.547
- How about a television interview?
- 00:28:45.547 --> 00:28:47.081
- I think it can happen in a television interview.
- 00:28:47.081 --> 00:28:49.751
- God can come, and i think actually in the dynamic of the
- 00:28:49.751 --> 00:28:54.489
- Relationship, he starts guiding things.
- 00:28:54.489 --> 00:28:57.125
- And when we talk about, okay, how is his divine guidance
- 00:28:57.125 --> 00:29:01.062
- Gonna manifest?
- 00:29:01.062 --> 00:29:02.297
- It's not just me feeling something.
- 00:29:02.297 --> 00:29:05.400
- It seems like there's dynamics where i think god was in that
- 00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:09.871
- Thing that we were doing.
- 00:29:09.871 --> 00:29:12.674
- And i think it's in business transactions.
- 00:29:12.674 --> 00:29:15.143
- I think it's in an artist painting a picture.
- 00:29:15.143 --> 00:29:17.679
- I think they can be using their talent, but all of a sudden,
- 00:29:17.679 --> 00:29:20.882
- Something changes.
- 00:29:20.882 --> 00:29:22.784
- And they just, that's beyond my talent.
- 00:29:22.784 --> 00:29:27.222
- I think it can come, you know, when you're teaching, all of a
- 00:29:27.222 --> 00:29:31.526
- Sudden, your teaching was okay, but it was a little bit boring.
- 00:29:31.526 --> 00:29:35.330
- But then all of a sudden, something happens in the room
- 00:29:35.330 --> 00:29:38.600
- Where it's not just you, but it's a dynamic that happened
- 00:29:38.600 --> 00:29:43.104
- Between you and the people, where their hearts yielded and
- 00:29:43.104 --> 00:29:47.342
- A greater flow of the spirit of god comes out of you.
- 00:29:47.342 --> 00:29:49.878
- I think it happens in politics.
- 00:29:49.878 --> 00:29:52.113
- I think there's a spirit that can come on someone who's
- 00:29:52.113 --> 00:29:54.616
- Running for office, and god's making a decision, i'm gonna
- 00:29:54.616 --> 00:29:57.652
- Raise this person up.
- 00:29:57.652 --> 00:29:59.721
- And i think it happens a lot more than we're aware of.
- 00:29:59.721 --> 00:30:04.125
- He knows when to raise someone up and when to lower someone.
- 00:30:04.125 --> 00:30:08.463
- So i would like us to think of the guidance of god as it's
- 00:30:08.463 --> 00:30:12.767
- Probably happening more than we know.
- 00:30:12.767 --> 00:30:14.569
- Augustine, thomas aquinas,
- 00:30:14.569 --> 00:30:18.039
- Martin luther, john calvin, all of them had a
- 00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:22.010
- Victorious view, fully convinced in their heart that
- 00:30:22.010 --> 00:30:25.680
- What jesus started is gonna take over the world.
- 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:30.652
- John wesley, he was a strong proponent of this view.
- 00:30:30.652 --> 00:30:34.422
- The victorious view?
- 00:30:34.422 --> 00:30:35.924
- Yes. the church would have complete victory over all evil
- 00:30:35.924 --> 00:30:41.696
- On the earth before the return of jesus christ.
- 00:30:41.696 --> 00:30:44.399
- There is a spectrum between people who push all the
- 00:30:44.399 --> 00:30:47.802
- Prophecies into the future or
- 00:30:47.802 --> 00:30:49.570
- All the prophecies into the past.
- 00:30:49.570 --> 00:30:52.040
- But as long as we're on a journey towards truth, i think
- 00:30:52.040 --> 00:30:54.809
- That is the important thing.
- 00:30:54.809 --> 00:30:56.711
- I believe that the kingdom that's in heaven is coming upon
- 00:30:56.711 --> 00:31:01.182
- Earth, and that establishes the future.
- 00:31:01.182 --> 00:31:05.353
- There was a law
- 00:31:05.353 --> 00:31:09.657
- Passed legislatively in the state of texas
- 00:31:09.657 --> 00:31:14.929
- In the year 2025 that said something, the
- 00:31:14.929 --> 00:31:20.935
- Headline, i don't know what the bill says, i didn't read the
- 00:31:20.935 --> 00:31:23.671
- Bill, but the headline said
- 00:31:23.671 --> 00:31:25.373
- Something about that sharia law cannot
- 00:31:25.373 --> 00:31:32.213
- Supersede any kind of texas state law.
- 00:31:32.213 --> 00:31:38.152
- In other words, your religious belief, whatever it might be,
- 00:31:38.152 --> 00:31:41.789
- And i think they were specifically talking about
- 00:31:41.789 --> 00:31:44.425
- Sharia law,
- 00:31:44.425 --> 00:31:46.327
- Cannot happen here if it doesn't fit inside of the laws
- 00:31:46.327 --> 00:31:51.966
- Of the state of texas.
- 00:31:51.966 --> 00:31:54.335
- And sharia law and those behind that
- 00:31:54.335 --> 00:32:02.110
- System are almost a good representation of trying to
- 00:32:02.110 --> 00:32:07.181
- Legislate morality.
- 00:32:07.181 --> 00:32:09.117
- There's just going to be these rules, you're going to follow
- 00:32:09.117 --> 00:32:12.286
- Them, and if you do that, you're supposedly good to go
- 00:32:12.286 --> 00:32:16.190
- With god, you know,
- 00:32:16.190 --> 00:32:18.393
- And so that's what they're saying.
- 00:32:18.393 --> 00:32:20.928
- We're not saying that.
- 00:32:20.928 --> 00:32:22.296
- No. if laws represented a
- 00:32:22.296 --> 00:32:24.732
- Biblical worldview, that's not bad.
- 00:32:24.732 --> 00:32:26.367
- But that's not what jesus was talking about.
- 00:32:26.367 --> 00:32:29.037
- Or let's say it this way, that might be a small little piece
- 00:32:29.037 --> 00:32:33.474
- Of what jesus meant in a broader sense about what his
- 00:32:33.474 --> 00:32:36.677
- Kingdom was.
- 00:32:36.677 --> 00:32:37.478
- It wouldn't be bad to have laws
- 00:32:37.478 --> 00:32:39.947
- Representing a kingdom worldview.
- 00:32:39.947 --> 00:32:41.749
- It wouldn't be bad to have no, not at all.
- 00:32:41.749 --> 00:32:44.052
- You know, the city councils and stuff filled with christians.
- 00:32:44.052 --> 00:32:47.488
- That's not bad.
- 00:32:47.488 --> 00:32:48.156
- We're not saying that.
- 00:32:48.156 --> 00:32:49.390
- But that's only a part of it because you could still be a
- 00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:52.060
- Christian sitting in a city
- 00:32:52.060 --> 00:32:53.428
- Council meeting with the wrong attitude.
- 00:32:53.428 --> 00:32:55.596
- Exactly, so you're exactly right.
- 00:32:55.596 --> 00:32:59.067
- Talking about sharia law, it's very similar to what the
- 00:32:59.067 --> 00:33:02.503
- Pharisees held to.
- 00:33:02.503 --> 00:33:04.806
- I mean we think of the pharisees as just being
- 00:33:04.806 --> 00:33:07.475
- Legalistic and judgmental and therefore we ascribe bad
- 00:33:07.475 --> 00:33:12.613
- Motives to them, but for many of them their motive was right,
- 00:33:12.613 --> 00:33:17.285
- It was their method that was wrong.
- 00:33:17.285 --> 00:33:19.253
- They actually believed that if they could get everyone to obey
- 00:33:19.253 --> 00:33:22.657
- The law--
- 00:33:22.657 --> 00:33:23.391
- All 613.
- 00:33:23.391 --> 00:33:24.826
- All 613, that the messiah would come.
- 00:33:24.826 --> 00:33:28.296
- But the truth is the messiah comes to change our hearts and
- 00:33:28.296 --> 00:33:34.669
- Then we live a different way.
- 00:33:34.669 --> 00:33:36.104
- We don't live a different way to bring the messiah and yes,
- 00:33:36.104 --> 00:33:40.208
- To a certain extent there's
- 00:33:40.208 --> 00:33:41.843
- Nothing wrong with legislating morality.
- 00:33:41.843 --> 00:33:44.479
- I mean i think we're all glad that murder is illegal, but
- 00:33:44.479 --> 00:33:49.283
- It doesn't take away the hatred from people's hearts and jesus
- 00:33:49.283 --> 00:33:53.020
- Said it was hatred in the heart that led to murder, you know,
- 00:33:53.020 --> 00:33:56.324
- It's lust in the heart that leads to adultery and so we can
- 00:33:56.324 --> 00:33:59.927
- Make things illegal and that would maybe help society to a
- 00:33:59.927 --> 00:34:04.499
- Certain extent, but god's much more interested than just a
- 00:34:04.499 --> 00:34:08.469
- Stable society.
- 00:34:08.469 --> 00:34:09.537
- He's looking for a redeemed people inside it.
- 00:34:09.537 --> 00:34:15.643
- Just at full disclosure, i'm having kind of accent envy
- 00:34:15.643 --> 00:34:20.014
- Right now, so i wish i sounded like you, and i don't.
- 00:34:20.014 --> 00:34:24.385
- So i'm not sitting here with a pure heart because i wish i
- 00:34:24.385 --> 00:34:27.755
- Sounded like you.
- 00:34:27.755 --> 00:34:29.190
- Doctor. martin trench, victorious eschatology.
- 00:34:29.190 --> 00:34:33.928
- And i wanna go back because we
- 00:34:33.928 --> 00:34:39.133
- Took on a subject of the kingdom, i get it.
- 00:34:39.133 --> 00:34:41.502
- But your eschatology that
- 00:34:41.502 --> 00:34:45.406
- Gets us to make it really
- 00:34:45.406 --> 00:34:47.575
- Important that we get this because
- 00:34:47.575 --> 00:34:51.779
- The kingdom is at hand.
- 00:34:51.779 --> 00:34:55.416
- Yes.
- 00:34:55.416 --> 00:34:55.883
- It is within us.
- 00:34:55.883 --> 00:34:57.385
- And,
- 00:34:57.385 --> 00:34:59.921
- You know, i grew up in eschatological
- 00:34:59.921 --> 00:35:03.324
- System called, dispensationalism.
- 00:35:03.324 --> 00:35:07.228
- My dad was really good friends with hal lindsey, and and
- 00:35:07.228 --> 00:35:12.900
- 1948 was a really important thing, but we
- 00:35:12.900 --> 00:35:16.504
- Were never really sitting around discussing
- 00:35:16.504 --> 00:35:21.642
- Representing the kingdom.
- 00:35:21.642 --> 00:35:24.078
- We were sitting around discussing how short a time we
- 00:35:24.078 --> 00:35:27.915
- Had to win people to jesus.
- 00:35:27.915 --> 00:35:30.384
- Certainly, there's nothing wrong with but it feels like
- 00:35:30.384 --> 00:35:34.722
- Kind of we were doing
- 00:35:34.722 --> 00:35:38.125
- A part of a great thing, a part of it.
- 00:35:38.125 --> 00:35:42.730
- But i just think in 2025 and beyond,
- 00:35:42.730 --> 00:35:48.669
- Maybe the veil is being pulled back a little bit.
- 00:35:48.669 --> 00:35:52.473
- There's a little bit of an unveiling of a bigger picture
- 00:35:52.473 --> 00:35:55.409
- Here, almost like if you were just to read the two accounts
- 00:35:55.409 --> 00:35:59.914
- Of the great commission, go and preach the gospel, go and make
- 00:35:59.914 --> 00:36:03.718
- Disciples of nations.
- 00:36:03.718 --> 00:36:04.785
- Sounds like two different tasks.
- 00:36:04.785 --> 00:36:06.420
- Yes. my dad always chose the preach.
- 00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:08.889
- This sounded simpler.
- 00:36:08.889 --> 00:36:10.191
- Yes. you know, if you just got a microphone, somebody's given
- 00:36:10.191 --> 00:36:12.260
- An altar call, we're good to go.
- 00:36:12.260 --> 00:36:14.695
- And it feels like there's more to it.
- 00:36:14.695 --> 00:36:18.266
- But it felt like you'd need
- 00:36:18.266 --> 00:36:20.001
- More time to make a disciple of nations.
- 00:36:20.001 --> 00:36:23.437
- And no one had any time back then.
- 00:36:23.437 --> 00:36:26.274
- So what is your view on whether or not we have any time to
- 00:36:26.274 --> 00:36:35.383
- Represent this kingdom?
- 00:36:35.383 --> 00:36:36.817
- See, if i go back to nineteen eighty five, and i'm paul
- 00:36:36.817 --> 00:36:41.022
- Crouch, and you're what's your dad's name?
- 00:36:41.022 --> 00:36:45.126
- -james. -james, you know--
- 00:36:45.126 --> 00:36:47.261
- - trench.
- 00:36:47.261 --> 00:36:48.396
- James trench sitting here.
- 00:36:48.396 --> 00:36:50.564
- So, if it's paul crouch and james trench, my dad is saying
- 00:36:50.564 --> 00:36:55.736
- About this conversation,
- 00:36:55.736 --> 00:36:58.205
- Yeah, that's important.
- 00:36:58.205 --> 00:36:59.907
- You've got to have the right attitude.
- 00:36:59.907 --> 00:37:01.976
- But the lord might be back tomorrow.
- 00:37:01.976 --> 00:37:04.145
- So what largely difference does it make unless you just go and
- 00:37:04.145 --> 00:37:08.582
- Win your neighbor to christ or you preach on this mass
- 00:37:08.582 --> 00:37:12.353
- Communications tool called trinity broadcasting that's now
- 00:37:12.353 --> 00:37:16.691
- Got satellites covering the whole earth and somebody is
- 00:37:16.691 --> 00:37:20.061
- Listening, so just win them to jesus.
- 00:37:20.061 --> 00:37:22.863
- We're talking about depth of character issues.
- 00:37:22.863 --> 00:37:26.734
- We're talking about doing things the right way that this
- 00:37:26.734 --> 00:37:30.438
- Expectation that if you live in righteousness, peace and joy,
- 00:37:30.438 --> 00:37:33.808
- The doors are gonna open to your dreams and fulfillments
- 00:37:33.808 --> 00:37:36.811
- And you're gonna you're going to find the right people in the
- 00:37:36.811 --> 00:37:39.447
- Right place, the right time.
- 00:37:39.447 --> 00:37:41.182
- You're to do and you're going to pursue and you're going to
- 00:37:41.182 --> 00:37:43.751
- Fulfill the things that god had put in your heart.
- 00:37:43.751 --> 00:37:46.487
- Well, my dad in 1985 would have said, yeah, as
- 00:37:46.487 --> 00:37:49.757
- Long as that get done by
- 00:37:49.757 --> 00:37:50.758
- Tomorrow afternoon, that's great.
- 00:37:50.758 --> 00:37:52.360
- Yes. okay, you see the difference.
- 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:54.462
- So help me with some eschatology points that makes
- 00:37:54.462 --> 00:37:58.466
- Our discussion more important than winning the neighbor, the
- 00:37:58.466 --> 00:38:02.703
- Nasty neighbor down the street by tomorrow because the lord's
- 00:38:02.703 --> 00:38:06.073
- Coming back imminently.
- 00:38:06.073 --> 00:38:08.242
- So we are very enamored with instantaneous things,
- 00:38:08.242 --> 00:38:14.715
- Especially in the more spirit filled part of the church.
- 00:38:14.715 --> 00:38:18.719
- So we love things to happen instantly.
- 00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:20.888
- We want instant conversions, instant baptisms in the spirit,
- 00:38:20.888 --> 00:38:25.059
- People to be healed and go up
- 00:38:25.059 --> 00:38:26.594
- Out their chair and walk, right?
- 00:38:26.594 --> 00:38:28.496
- And i love all that stuff.
- 00:38:28.496 --> 00:38:31.699
- But
- 00:38:31.699 --> 00:38:34.268
- God seems to work more through
- 00:38:34.268 --> 00:38:36.971
- Process than he does through crisis.
- 00:38:36.971 --> 00:38:40.474
- Dog gone it.
- 00:38:40.474 --> 00:38:41.375
- Yeah, i know.
- 00:38:41.375 --> 00:38:44.178
- But that doesn't mean those experiences are not important,
- 00:38:44.178 --> 00:38:48.349
- They are.
- 00:38:48.349 --> 00:38:50.751
- So if you look at the history of the church, again we're very
- 00:38:50.751 --> 00:38:54.455
- Enamoured with revivals because things happen very quickly.
- 00:38:54.455 --> 00:38:58.893
- People get saved, multitudes come in very quickly.
- 00:38:58.893 --> 00:39:02.997
- So that would be similar to the impetus behind tbn.
- 00:39:02.997 --> 00:39:08.436
- Now those things are important but what usually happens during
- 00:39:08.436 --> 00:39:13.240
- Revival movements is something new is created, a new wineskin
- 00:39:13.240 --> 00:39:18.345
- In some way.
- 00:39:18.345 --> 00:39:19.814
- It could be a denomination or a movement or an organization or
- 00:39:19.814 --> 00:39:24.685
- A tv station, something is
- 00:39:24.685 --> 00:39:26.787
- Created by the sense of urgency.
- 00:39:26.787 --> 00:39:30.257
- That would never have been created if people didn't have
- 00:39:30.257 --> 00:39:32.993
- That sense of urgency.
- 00:39:32.993 --> 00:39:34.628
- Your dad would not have built what he built if he didn't feel
- 00:39:34.628 --> 00:39:38.466
- He only had a few years to do it and
- 00:39:38.466 --> 00:39:42.069
- So that's what happens and that's good and god is at work
- 00:39:42.069 --> 00:39:47.007
- But then after the revival is over or the sense of urgency is
- 00:39:47.007 --> 00:39:51.345
- Over there is then a process of building upon that, tweaking
- 00:39:51.345 --> 00:39:57.518
- It, improving it, reaching more people with it.
- 00:39:57.518 --> 00:40:02.389
- And so yes we have these spurts of kingdom advancement and
- 00:40:02.389 --> 00:40:08.195
- Quite often it is connected to
- 00:40:08.195 --> 00:40:10.764
- Jesus could come back any minute.
- 00:40:10.764 --> 00:40:13.567
- But then once that dies down a bit people realize we've been
- 00:40:13.567 --> 00:40:17.638
- Entrusted with something now by god and we don't know if jesus
- 00:40:17.638 --> 00:40:22.376
- Is going to come back any minute because no man knows a
- 00:40:22.376 --> 00:40:25.779
- Day or hour and so now we need to build generationally
- 00:40:25.779 --> 00:40:32.019
- With what we've got.
- 00:40:32.019 --> 00:40:34.021
- And so i think both things it's almost like a tide you know, so
- 00:40:34.021 --> 00:40:38.926
- The tide comes in and it goes back out and there are times in
- 00:40:38.926 --> 00:40:44.331
- The body of christ where i feel the holy spirit does give us a
- 00:40:44.331 --> 00:40:47.935
- Big sense of urgency and it's important for us to get the
- 00:40:47.935 --> 00:40:53.073
- Work done and to reach individuals with the gospel and
- 00:40:53.073 --> 00:40:57.811
- Then once that tide goes out we now have to start building
- 00:40:57.811 --> 00:41:01.615
- Something permanently with the people that have come in, the
- 00:41:01.615 --> 00:41:06.287
- Ministry that we've been given and so on.
- 00:41:06.287 --> 00:41:09.523
- And look, eschatology, we
- 00:41:09.523 --> 00:41:14.028
- Look at jesus teaching and we realise that all of his talk
- 00:41:14.028 --> 00:41:18.766
- About eschatology involves a long period of time.
- 00:41:18.766 --> 00:41:24.138
- Whether it's his parables and he says the master was delayed
- 00:41:24.138 --> 00:41:28.409
- In his coming or the bridesmaids
- 00:41:28.409 --> 00:41:32.646
- Waited a long time for the bridegroom to come or jesus is
- 00:41:32.646 --> 00:41:40.054
- Preached throughout all the world.
- 00:41:40.054 --> 00:41:42.056
- I mean there's so many things about jesus' return that when
- 00:41:42.056 --> 00:41:47.027
- Jesus speaks about it, he implies that there is a lot to
- 00:41:47.027 --> 00:41:51.065
- Be done before that and the kingdom is like a seed that's
- 00:41:51.065 --> 00:41:56.503
- Planted in the ground,
- 00:41:56.503 --> 00:41:58.872
- Invisible, unseen until it breaks through and even then it
- 00:41:58.872 --> 00:42:03.010
- Looks weak and easily destroyed, somebody could stand
- 00:42:03.010 --> 00:42:06.747
- On it and crush it, but no, it will grow and it will become a
- 00:42:06.747 --> 00:42:10.751
- Tree and the birds of the air will come and make their nest
- 00:42:10.751 --> 00:42:14.121
- In it.
- 00:42:14.121 --> 00:42:15.422
- So when god plants something in my life or in your life, nobody
- 00:42:15.422 --> 00:42:20.761
- Else sees it.
- 00:42:20.761 --> 00:42:22.296
- It's an invisible work of the kingdom but eventually it will
- 00:42:22.296 --> 00:42:26.400
- Break through the surface and we will see that you've become
- 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:29.670
- A changed person.
- 00:42:29.670 --> 00:42:31.405
- And then as you become a changed person your influence
- 00:42:31.405 --> 00:42:34.775
- Is growing and now other people are coming to you for shelter
- 00:42:34.775 --> 00:42:39.046
- And to be part of what you're doing.
- 00:42:39.046 --> 00:42:41.582
- So the kingdom has advanced.
- 00:42:41.582 --> 00:42:43.384
- So for the last two thousand
- 00:42:43.384 --> 00:42:45.853
- Years the kingdom has been advancing.
- 00:42:45.853 --> 00:42:49.390
- It will continue to advance until jesus returns and then
- 00:42:49.390 --> 00:42:53.861
- Brings it to its fullness.
- 00:42:53.861 --> 00:42:56.230
- And in fact when jesus returns there'll only be one enemy
- 00:42:56.230 --> 00:43:00.634
- Left, the last enemy death, because all of his other
- 00:43:00.634 --> 00:43:05.272
- Enemies will have already been made a footstool for his feet.
- 00:43:05.272 --> 00:43:09.643
- Victorious eschatology,
- 00:43:09.643 --> 00:43:10.911
- Doctor martin trench.
- 00:43:10.911 --> 00:43:14.448
- We've we've kind of, bounced around a bit.
- 00:43:14.448 --> 00:43:17.484
- We we've talked about the kingdom of god, and i think we
- 00:43:17.484 --> 00:43:22.756
- Took that on nicely.
- 00:43:22.756 --> 00:43:23.991
- We've talked a little bit of why that mattered because
- 00:43:23.991 --> 00:43:27.294
- Eschatology has to say we're in it now, or why are we talking
- 00:43:27.294 --> 00:43:31.565
- About the kingdom if we're not in it?
- 00:43:31.565 --> 00:43:34.001
- So why don't you do your best to land the plane?
- 00:43:34.001 --> 00:43:40.040
- I'll say gear down, which means the gear's already down.
- 00:43:40.040 --> 00:43:43.377
- Right? so the gear's down.
- 00:43:43.377 --> 00:43:45.145
- We're going to land this plane.
- 00:43:45.145 --> 00:43:46.947
- And if you could wrap
- 00:43:46.947 --> 00:43:50.417
- This up, because i'm wondering if somebody's listened and
- 00:43:50.417 --> 00:43:55.222
- Gone, well, snap, that kind of makes some sense to me,
- 00:43:55.222 --> 00:44:00.527
- You know, i mean, at some point.
- 00:44:00.527 --> 00:44:02.629
- And if you want more, obviously, you know, order the
- 00:44:02.629 --> 00:44:05.799
- Book, and it's available at amazon and other places.
- 00:44:05.799 --> 00:44:11.905
- Why don't you-- you know, it feels like why did we spend
- 00:44:15.476 --> 00:44:20.380
- Thirty minutes talking about the kingdom
- 00:44:20.380 --> 00:44:23.917
- If it's not here and not present and not within us?
- 00:44:23.917 --> 00:44:28.889
- Why does anyone talk about a kingdom?
- 00:44:28.889 --> 00:44:30.824
- Why does anyone pay attention to the parables about kingdom
- 00:44:30.824 --> 00:44:35.295
- Principles if we're not in a kingdom?
- 00:44:35.295 --> 00:44:40.400
- And, you know, my dad's generation would say, well,
- 00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:43.837
- You're kind of in the kingdom because it'll be fully
- 00:44:43.837 --> 00:44:46.206
- Established when jesus comes back, so you're just kind of in
- 00:44:46.206 --> 00:44:48.675
- A kind of an in between period
- 00:44:48.675 --> 00:44:52.112
- Or church age or something like that.
- 00:44:52.112 --> 00:44:54.915
- But it feels like then you we switch gears, you start talking
- 00:44:54.915 --> 00:45:00.687
- About that, wait a second, some of what we think is this coming
- 00:45:00.687 --> 00:45:06.226
- Doom was really prophesied
- 00:45:06.226 --> 00:45:08.595
- About the end of the first covenant.
- 00:45:08.595 --> 00:45:11.331
- And the thing
- 00:45:11.331 --> 00:45:15.068
- That my mom would say occasionally,
- 00:45:15.068 --> 00:45:19.006
- Which is interesting, that the writer of hebrews,
- 00:45:19.006 --> 00:45:23.343
- Hebrews 1:1, i'll paraphrase
- 00:45:23.343 --> 00:45:26.547
- In the past, god has spoken to us through his prophets, but in
- 00:45:26.547 --> 00:45:31.752
- These last days he has spoken to us by his son.
- 00:45:31.752 --> 00:45:37.024
- Yes. so, the writer of hebrews is saying that he, whoever he
- 00:45:37.024 --> 00:45:43.030
- Is, and jesus are in the end times.
- 00:45:43.030 --> 00:45:46.934
- So, it must be the end times of the old covenant, which fully
- 00:45:46.934 --> 00:45:51.839
- Ended in 70 a.d.
- 00:45:51.839 --> 00:45:55.776
- Then we adopted that and threw it two thousand years into the
- 00:45:55.776 --> 00:45:59.947
- Future and started the story all over again in 1948.
- 00:45:59.947 --> 00:46:03.517
- Is that fair?
- 00:46:03.517 --> 00:46:04.151
- Yes, it is. okay.
- 00:46:04.151 --> 00:46:05.886
- So land the plane in regard to anything that we've discussed
- 00:46:05.886 --> 00:46:12.793
- Here and pray for our audience that
- 00:46:12.793 --> 00:46:17.731
- Whatever the holy spirit needs to communicate really goes past
- 00:46:17.731 --> 00:46:22.703
- Our ability to communicate and is being received by an
- 00:46:22.703 --> 00:46:26.907
- Audience in whatever way they need it.
- 00:46:26.907 --> 00:46:28.809
- Whether they're part way down this journey or just starting
- 00:46:28.809 --> 00:46:32.546
- To understand some things or need to understand some things,
- 00:46:32.546 --> 00:46:36.917
- Whatever it is.
- 00:46:36.917 --> 00:46:37.885
- And so, take your time.
- 00:46:37.885 --> 00:46:39.286
- Really close this out.
- 00:46:39.286 --> 00:46:40.754
- This is your closing argument here about our discussion and
- 00:46:40.754 --> 00:46:43.824
- Then pray for the audience.
- 00:46:43.824 --> 00:46:45.292
- So you mentioned that verse in hebrews.
- 00:46:45.292 --> 00:46:47.294
- Let's start there.
- 00:46:47.294 --> 00:46:48.562
- All of the verses in the new testament that use the phrase
- 00:46:48.562 --> 00:46:53.634
- Last days,
- 00:46:53.634 --> 00:46:56.270
- All of them, when you read them in context, they say that the
- 00:46:56.270 --> 00:47:00.207
- Early christians were living in the last days.
- 00:47:00.207 --> 00:47:03.977
- In these last days we have been spoken to by jesus.
- 00:47:03.977 --> 00:47:09.249
- Pentecost was the fulfillment of joel's prophecy that in the
- 00:47:09.249 --> 00:47:12.786
- Last days god would pour out his spirit among all flesh.
- 00:47:12.786 --> 00:47:16.890
- All of them seem to suggest that the first believers were
- 00:47:16.890 --> 00:47:21.795
- In the last days.
- 00:47:21.795 --> 00:47:23.797
- That we're in the what?
- 00:47:23.797 --> 00:47:24.998
- The kingdom,
- 00:47:24.998 --> 00:47:25.599
- Ain't it?
- 00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:26.566
- We're in the new days, the kingdom, yes.
- 00:47:26.566 --> 00:47:27.734
- Kingdom
- 00:47:27.734 --> 00:47:28.168
- Days, okay.
- 00:47:28.168 --> 00:47:28.869
- Great.
- 00:47:28.869 --> 00:47:30.170
- And so if we think of the word eschatology, it's a big word,
- 00:47:30.170 --> 00:47:32.105
- Complicated word.
- 00:47:32.105 --> 00:47:33.607
- Ology just means study.
- 00:47:33.607 --> 00:47:36.243
- Eschaton means the end.
- 00:47:36.243 --> 00:47:38.345
- Eschatology is a study of the last things.
- 00:47:38.345 --> 00:47:42.516
- But there's actually three parts to eschatology and this
- 00:47:42.516 --> 00:47:45.919
- Will help listeners understand.
- 00:47:45.919 --> 00:47:48.655
- There's personal eschatology
- 00:47:48.655 --> 00:47:51.124
- What happens at the end of my life?
- 00:47:51.124 --> 00:47:54.895
- Life after death, heaven and
- 00:47:54.895 --> 00:47:56.730
- Hell, all of that kind of stuff.
- 00:47:56.730 --> 00:47:58.565
- That's personal eschatology.
- 00:47:58.565 --> 00:48:00.667
- Then there's cosmic eschatology
- 00:48:00.667 --> 00:48:02.602
- What happens at the end of history?
- 00:48:02.602 --> 00:48:05.405
- That's what most people are thinking of when they think
- 00:48:05.405 --> 00:48:08.608
- About you know the end of the
- 00:48:08.608 --> 00:48:09.876
- World or christ returning or something.
- 00:48:09.876 --> 00:48:12.512
- Cosmic eschatology what is happening at the end of human
- 00:48:12.512 --> 00:48:15.415
- History when jesus sums everything up and returns.
- 00:48:15.415 --> 00:48:19.519
- And then there's covenantal eschatology what happened at
- 00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:23.690
- The end of the old covenant when jerusalem was destroyed
- 00:48:23.690 --> 00:48:28.528
- And the temple was no more?
- 00:48:28.528 --> 00:48:31.631
- And i think sometimes if believers can get that in their
- 00:48:31.631 --> 00:48:36.336
- Mind then they won't put everything i think sometimes
- 00:48:36.336 --> 00:48:40.807
- Every verse that we read about the end of something, we put it
- 00:48:40.807 --> 00:48:45.812
- Into the cosmic eschatology thing, it's about the end of
- 00:48:45.812 --> 00:48:48.815
- The world.
- 00:48:48.815 --> 00:48:50.083
- So for instance the final judgment for you and me
- 00:48:50.083 --> 00:48:54.087
- Will probably not be when jesus returns, it will be when we die
- 00:48:54.087 --> 00:48:57.824
- And go and stand before the lord and give an account for we
- 00:48:57.824 --> 00:49:00.660
- Shall all give an account
- 00:49:00.660 --> 00:49:02.195
- Before christ, paul says, right?
- 00:49:02.195 --> 00:49:04.865
- So there's a personal thing.
- 00:49:04.865 --> 00:49:07.134
- If we can think of it this way, let's land the plane you said,
- 00:49:07.134 --> 00:49:10.437
- Right, the gears are down.
- 00:49:10.437 --> 00:49:12.606
- We realize that some things that we read about in biblical
- 00:49:12.606 --> 00:49:18.612
- Prophecy in the bible
- 00:49:18.612 --> 00:49:21.148
- Have already happened.
- 00:49:21.148 --> 00:49:24.251
- Some have still to come.
- 00:49:24.251 --> 00:49:27.621
- Some of them are about what happened at the end of the old
- 00:49:27.621 --> 00:49:31.625
- Covenant and the birth of the new covenant.
- 00:49:31.625 --> 00:49:34.361
- Some of them are about what's going to happen to me at the
- 00:49:34.361 --> 00:49:37.164
- End of my life.
- 00:49:37.164 --> 00:49:38.698
- Some of them are about what's going to happen in human
- 00:49:38.698 --> 00:49:41.334
- History when jesus returns.
- 00:49:41.334 --> 00:49:45.338
- Our job whenever we are reading scripture is not to start with
- 00:49:45.338 --> 00:49:50.277
- A blueprint in mind and then force all the passages into it,
- 00:49:50.277 --> 00:49:55.482
- But to read scripture and say, is this speaking about the end
- 00:49:55.482 --> 00:49:59.653
- Of the old covenant?
- 00:49:59.653 --> 00:50:01.621
- Is this speaking to me personally about my life?
- 00:50:01.621 --> 00:50:05.725
- Is this speaking about god's
- 00:50:05.725 --> 00:50:08.395
- Grand plan for the whole of humanity?
- 00:50:08.395 --> 00:50:11.765
- What does it say in its original context?
- 00:50:11.765 --> 00:50:16.002
- And once i know that, is there any evidence that this has
- 00:50:16.002 --> 00:50:20.107
- Already happened or is it
- 00:50:20.107 --> 00:50:22.576
- Something that is still to come?
- 00:50:22.576 --> 00:50:25.312
- And so this keeps our mind and our heart open to god,
- 00:50:25.312 --> 00:50:30.917
- So that we don't think we already know everything and
- 00:50:30.917 --> 00:50:35.055
- We'll explain everything else away.
- 00:50:35.055 --> 00:50:37.491
- This turns our faith into a lifetime adventure, where we
- 00:50:37.491 --> 00:50:42.929
- Are constantly being wowed by god opening our eyes and
- 00:50:42.929 --> 00:50:48.935
- Showing us new things.
- 00:50:48.935 --> 00:50:50.704
- And so to land the plane i would say what we're sharing
- 00:50:50.704 --> 00:50:53.507
- Today is not the final word on biblical interpretation.
- 00:50:53.507 --> 00:50:58.245
- What i hope is happening is your heart is being stirred
- 00:50:58.245 --> 00:51:02.449
- With a fresh hunger and a fresh interest to discover what the
- 00:51:02.449 --> 00:51:07.888
- Bible is really saying.
- 00:51:07.888 --> 00:51:10.123
- And when we open our mind and when we open our hearts to the
- 00:51:10.123 --> 00:51:14.027
- Counsel of god, to the kingdom of god, we will find that he
- 00:51:14.027 --> 00:51:19.266
- Will lead us into an understanding of scripture that
- 00:51:19.266 --> 00:51:22.769
- Will put things right, that will bring us peace and that
- 00:51:22.769 --> 00:51:28.675
- Will enthuse us with the joy of the lord that will be our
- 00:51:28.675 --> 00:51:32.579
- Strength, for the kingdom is righteousness, peace and joy.
- 00:51:32.579 --> 00:51:38.685
- And so i encourage anyone who has bought into a theology that
- 00:51:38.685 --> 00:51:42.289
- Brings fear and anxiety.
- 00:51:42.289 --> 00:51:45.392
- Maybe you've gone down the wrong path,
- 00:51:45.392 --> 00:51:50.330
- Maybe you need to find the path that brings righteousness,
- 00:51:50.330 --> 00:51:53.700
- Peace and joy, and all that means is looking at the
- 00:51:53.700 --> 00:51:57.304
- Scriptures afresh with new eyes, with a curiosity and with
- 00:51:57.304 --> 00:52:02.542
- A desire to learn and grow.
- 00:52:02.542 --> 00:52:04.711
- And i believe if you do that, the spirit of truth will lead
- 00:52:04.711 --> 00:52:09.015
- And guide you into all truth
- 00:52:09.015 --> 00:52:11.184
- And will show you things to come.
- 00:52:11.184 --> 00:52:12.886
- Pray for the folks.
- 00:52:12.886 --> 00:52:14.187
- Father, we thank you that you are a good god and we know that
- 00:52:14.187 --> 00:52:19.359
- We can trust you.
- 00:52:19.359 --> 00:52:20.393
- You're for us and not against us.
- 00:52:20.393 --> 00:52:23.930
- Every good and perfect gift comes down from you.
- 00:52:23.930 --> 00:52:28.034
- May everyone watching and listening to this program,
- 00:52:28.034 --> 00:52:32.205
- Lord, may they receive your good gifts, your wisdom, your
- 00:52:32.205 --> 00:52:36.576
- Guidance, the illumination of your spirit.
- 00:52:36.576 --> 00:52:40.947
- Open our eyes afresh to see what you are truly saying in
- 00:52:40.947 --> 00:52:46.419
- The word of god.
- 00:52:46.419 --> 00:52:48.221
- Break us free from all of our preconceived ideas and
- 00:52:48.221 --> 00:52:52.325
- Theological straightjackets, and may we walk hand in hand
- 00:52:52.325 --> 00:52:57.330
- With the good shepherd to fresh pastures, to new places,
- 00:52:57.330 --> 00:53:03.103
- Knowing that we're safe because we're walking in line with the
- 00:53:03.103 --> 00:53:07.007
- Word and hand in hand with the one who gave that word.
- 00:53:07.007 --> 00:53:11.444
- In jesus' name we pray, amen.
- 00:53:11.444 --> 00:53:14.414
- Amen. doctor martin trench, when you during this broadcast
- 00:53:14.414 --> 00:53:17.917
- Have been saying you, you mean you, right?
- 00:53:17.917 --> 00:53:21.454
- I'm just speaking with proper english and not with
- 00:53:21.454 --> 00:53:21.755
- You.
- 00:53:21.755 --> 00:53:22.022
- An american--
- 00:53:23.890 --> 00:53:24.791
- Just wanted to clarify that one thing.
- 00:53:24.791 --> 00:53:26.026
- You means you.
- 00:53:26.026 --> 00:53:27.560
- Yes. got it.
- 00:53:27.560 --> 00:53:28.762
- A victorious eschatology is what we're talking about.
- 00:53:28.762 --> 00:53:32.999
- And you're taking a lot of the olivet discourse, or are you
- 00:53:32.999 --> 00:53:41.408
- Taking all
- 00:53:41.408 --> 00:53:42.776
- Of the discourse of the olivet discourse and putting it in the
- 00:53:42.776 --> 00:53:46.479
- Rearview mirror?
- 00:53:46.479 --> 00:53:47.380
- All or some?
- 00:53:47.380 --> 00:53:48.415
- Some. some.
- 00:53:48.415 --> 00:53:49.716
- Up until the verse where jesus says this generation will not
- 00:53:49.716 --> 00:53:54.287
- Pass away until all these things he's just listed comes
- 00:53:54.287 --> 00:53:58.158
- To pass.
- 00:53:58.158 --> 00:53:58.892
- That's in the rearview mirror.
- 00:53:58.892 --> 00:54:00.960
- We are now in the present where we are living in the three
- 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:05.165
- Parables that he tells, and we are looking forward to the day
- 00:54:05.165 --> 00:54:10.470
- When he finally returns with all of his angels.
- 00:54:10.470 --> 00:54:13.106
- Got it.
- 00:54:13.106 --> 00:54:14.341
- So when he's talking about destruction and rumors of war
- 00:54:14.341 --> 00:54:17.277
- And pestilence and
- 00:54:17.277 --> 00:54:19.446
- Really bad stuff, that's in the rearview mirror that happened
- 00:54:19.446 --> 00:54:22.082
- In 70 a.d.?
- 00:54:22.082 --> 00:54:23.350
- Yes, because that means nothing to us.
- 00:54:23.350 --> 00:54:26.019
- We've lived our whole life with wars and rumors of wars, but
- 00:54:26.019 --> 00:54:29.656
- They didn't.
- 00:54:29.656 --> 00:54:30.390
- They lived in a time when the
- 00:54:30.390 --> 00:54:31.524
- Roman empire dominated everything.
- 00:54:31.524 --> 00:54:33.526
- It was a shock to them that there
- 00:54:33.526 --> 00:54:36.730
- Would be wars and rumors of wars.
- 00:54:36.730 --> 00:54:38.498
- Interesting. wow.
- 00:54:38.498 --> 00:54:40.400
- Victorious eschatology available.
- 00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:42.836
- Thank you, doctor martin trench.
- 00:54:42.836 --> 00:54:44.304
- We appreciate you being with us.
- 00:54:44.304 --> 00:54:45.305
- Thank you. see you next time.
- 00:54:45.305 --> 00:54:46.473
- Bye bye.
- 00:54:46.473 --> 00:54:48.541
- ♪♪
- 00:54:48.541 --> 00:54:48.541
