Praise

Henry Cloud, Sharon May, & Harold Duncan: The Church and Mental Health | Praise

August 11, 2025 | 56:12

Sheila Walsh hosts Dr. Henry Cloud, Dr. Sharon May, and Dr. Harold Duncan for a powerful conversation on The Church and Mental Health.

#MentalHealth #Church #Author #Relationships #Peopleinyourlife #Counsel #Bible #Truth #Healing #Health #Thinking #SeekGod #TrustGod #Father #ProdigalSon

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Praise | Henry Cloud, Sharon May, & Harold Duncan: The Church and Mental Health | Praise | August 11, 2025

Welcome to a show that i believe is going to leave a real
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Impact on each one of us.
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I've wanted to do this program for quite some time.
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In 1992,
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My life kind of fell apart and
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I ended up in a psychiatric hospital.
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And i'll never forget the day before i left,
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I was actually co-host of the 700 club at the time on the
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Christian broadcasting network.
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And as i left that day to drive to the hospital, one of our
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Senior staff, not pat robertson, he was actually
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Incredibly supportive, but one of the senior staff walked me
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Around the lake before i left and he said, don't do this.
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If people find out that you've been in a psych hospital, no
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One will ever trust you again.
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Your ministry is over.
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And i said to him, i'm not trying to save my ministry.
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I'm trying to save my life.
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And i have to tell you that, you know, sometimes god will
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Take you to a prison to set you free.
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That was my experience.
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I dreaded walking through those
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Doors that would lock behind me.
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But what i discovered in there was the grace and mercy of god,
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The companionship of the shepherd, and of others who
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Love the lord but who don't have all the answers.
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So that's why we're doing tonight.
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I'm so, so excited.
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And i'm so excited because each one of our guests tonight,
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Doctor henry cloud, doctor
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Sharon may, and doctor harold duncan,
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God has used each one of them in my life.
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I have literally received so much input and so much help
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Along my journey that has made a huge difference.
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So if you've got family members who are not watching, just go
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Grab them, bring them down, tell them, sit down, let's
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Listen to this together.
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So i just want to kick off
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With, um, i'll start with you, henry.
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The title, the church and mental health.
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Where do you think we're sitting at the moment in terms
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Of how we, as the body of christ address mental health?
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Well, i say that at the moment, we're certainly in a way better
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Place than when you, when you went through your struggle.
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And when i went through mine.
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Um, we've come a long way since then.
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It used to be that the church
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Kind of sounded like job's friends.
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You know, if you had a mental health problem or struggle or
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Depression or anything,
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Job's friends said, well, you know, if you knew the word
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Better, if you had more faith, if you could get the sin out of
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Your life, and if you trusted god more, then all this
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Would clear up.
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And that was kind of the, you know, set prescription.
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Well, you know, at the end of that story, god spanks them and
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Gives job all the cows.
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So he said, you didn't speak the truth about me.
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And i think that the church has come to realize that the bible
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Actually addresses the real issues that we call mental
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Health problems and has very prescribed processes to heal
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Them, which is actually what good treatment does.
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The same thing that the scriptures say do.
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So i think we've come a long way.
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At the same time, i don't think we're there.
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You know, research shows that people of a vibrant faith and a
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Lot of measures do a lot better than people without.
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But in the church, a lot of people are almost too broken to
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Get into vibrancy, and other
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People don't know that it's okay.
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And we have a lot of a lot of
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Really hurting people in the culture.
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You know, 40% now meet the criteria for depression,
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Anxiety or addictions.
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And the church sometimes is,
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You know, looks a lot like that.
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But there are pockets of thriving.
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Yeah. sharon.
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God has used you in my life in a really profound way, because
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You do these things where i flew out and spent like three
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Days, um, kind of intense days where we just started in the
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Morning, went through and unpacked, um, so much of life.
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And the thing that was so helpful to me and continues to
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Be helpful was this understanding that it's okay
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Not to be okay.
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I did not grow up with that understanding.
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My understanding was you need to get it right, or god will
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Stop loving you with the rest of the people that you treat
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And walk beside.
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What are the biggest issues that you notice people
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Are dealing with?
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Yes, i think today people are dealing with stress and anxiety
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And depression.
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I think nowadays there's so many demands on us.
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We are trying to get the basics down, you know, put food on the
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Table, pay for the rent, you know, keep a job, find a job
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That can support the family.
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I think of personal growth and it's complicated.
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It has been over time.
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But we are trying to find how can i live the best life, this
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One life that i have,
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How can i do it the best way i
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Can while i'm swimming with fears?
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And can i make it?
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Will i make it?
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And all the demands that are on us,
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I think there's a lot of stress with people today.
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And harold, as you well know, god has used you in my family
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Multiple times.
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But the one time i was thinking about this morning
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When i was driving in to do the show this evening was barry,
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And my husband and i.
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We went through just a really rough patch in our marriage,
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And i was very angry and very disappointed.
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And so we set up an appointment with you.
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And i said to barry, listen, let's take separate cars.
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And he was like, why are, why are we doing--
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And i said, because he said, are you not speaking to me?
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And i'm like, well, i might not be on the way home.
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So, so we're driving in.
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And this literally was my conversation in the car.
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It was like, lord, please show up here.
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If i go in there just by myself, i've got 1,000,001
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Things to say of what's not good and what didn't work and
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What was disappointing.
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I don't want to walk in there by myself.
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I'm asking you, holy spirit, to walk in there with me.
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And we went in and
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Talked with you for a few minutes, and then you asked me
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A question, and i don't know if you even remember it, but i had
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Talked about some of the things that behaviors that i didn't
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Really like.
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And you said to me that you talk to a guy once and you
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Asked him, who is your favorite person?
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And the gentleman said, um, my tailor.
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He said, well, why on earth would your tailor be your
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Favorite person?
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He said, because every time i
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Go, he takes fresh measurements.
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And you asked me that question that day.
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You said, can you take fresh measurements?
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And honestly, it was one of those moments when, you know,
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Godly wisdom and the holy
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Spirit combined and made such a shift.
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What do you see when when couples come in to you to talk
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And they're like mad, angry,
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Not looking really for help because
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Barry-- yeah, we went because he wanted me to go.
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I didn't want to go.
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What do you see god doing when there's honesty and openness?
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Thanks for sharing that,
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That story. sheila, i do,
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I remember it now that you bring it to to my mind.
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And i'm really grateful and thankful to god that that had
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Such an impact on you and on your marriage as well.
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One thing i think about in response to your question is
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That we humans are created for connection.
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Okay. and then you go all the
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Way back to the garden, of course.
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And god created the man to be
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In communion in connection with him.
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It was not good for the man to be alone.
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He created the woman for them
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To be in connection with each other.
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Uh, and so and, and then i think there's a third piece
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That i think god wants us to be in connection with ourselves.
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All right.
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And so, um, i think that's what i see, almost without
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Exception, when a couple comes into my office for couples
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Therapy is
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I know before they i even meet them, there is a level of
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Disconnection and sometimes
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It's minor, major, moderate or whatever.
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But they are disconnected.
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And a second thing that goes along with that is a lack
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Of safety, right?
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Personal. i think my most important job as a husband and
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As a father and as a grandfather is to be the safest
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Person i know how to be.
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And when there, if there's no safety, there's not going to be
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Any connection.
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Maybe my favorite verse in the bible is in the context of
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The prodigal son.
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Prodigal son left home, took money, wasted his substance,
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Went into the far country.
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His friends left him.
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He's in abject poverty.
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But the verse that i love is when he came to himself.
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When he came to himself.
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The way i interpret that is, as long as he was separated, so
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Disconnected from the father, from his family, from his
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So-called friends, uh, he was also disconnected from himself.
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He was not in his right mind.
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That's the way i like to interpret that.
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And that doesn't mean mental illness.
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In fact, i don't-- i don't use
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The word mental illness anymore.
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I think what we've always called mental illnesses is
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Medical, primarily medical illness.
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So it kind of destigmatizes that term somewhat.
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But he had to come to himself.
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He had to come to his into his right mind before he could
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Reconnect with himself, with his family, with his father,
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And come home where he was created to be.
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Yeah. yeah.
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How would we give a description of mental health, henry?
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What falls under that kind of general statement.
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Well, i tend to look at it like we talked about this before,
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That life is like a pie.
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If you think of your life, i look at it like a pie.
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And there's three big slices.
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The first slice is what i would call the clinical slice, which
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That's how we feel.
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How are we doing?
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You know, it's depression, anxiety, fears, you know,
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Addictions or the converse, joy,
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Happiness, thriving, all of that.
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But it's basically how we're doing.
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Second big piece of the pie is the relational piece.
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It's all our relationships marriage, family, dating, kids,
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Friends, work, relationships, extended family.
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We all have relational life.
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And the third big piece is our performance, which means we all
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Have talents and abilities and dreams.
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But bringing those to fruition that if you're thriving in
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Mental health, those three
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Pieces are all working together.
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Now, a lot of times i'll say
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That people go, well, where's this?
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Where's the spiritual piece?
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I go, the pie pan is the spiritual piece because all of
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Those are affected by our spiritual well-being, our
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Connection to god and his word and others, and they're all
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Connected to each other.
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You know, a lot of times, people's addiction or
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Depression that's going to affect their marriage, or
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Sometimes people's marriage is going to make them depressed.
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And sometimes not reaching
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Goals is going to depress somebody.
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So i think of mental health as an integrated life.
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Jesus talked about the tree.
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If it's healthy, it's going to have good fruit.
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And it's a healthy whole being.
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The way that god created us and what we call illness,
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Jesus used that term,
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You know, that it's not the well that need a physician, but
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The sick and and the illness is when we have a breakdown there.
00:11:55.271 --> 00:11:59.475
Now, all of that exists in a body, too, and, you know, to
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The point you made,
00:12:04.213 --> 00:12:05.514
You know, a lot of this stuff and you've mentioned it before,
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Has biological, it interfaces with our biology and interfaces
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With medical issues.
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I mean, you can have a thyroid problem or blood sugar problems
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And have depression.
00:12:20.529 --> 00:12:22.097
You can also have some brain chemistry that's off and you
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Can have all sorts of mental problems.
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So we have to look at the whole person.
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You know, sharon, and this is too personal
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Then skip it.
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But talk to me about some of the process of what you worked
00:12:34.643 --> 00:12:37.847
With me on, because one of the things i want people to know is
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Sometimes people think, well, i know that back in 1992, you
00:12:40.449 --> 00:12:43.018
Were hospitalized, you know, but i continue to deal with
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With things and i continue to unpack things.
00:12:47.056 --> 00:12:49.558
And during covid, i kind of spiraled again.
00:12:49.558 --> 00:12:51.927
But when i came and sat down with you, what is the process
00:12:51.927 --> 00:12:55.231
That you use that helped me so much?
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Yes. i think, you know, as, as as a person.
00:12:58.167 --> 00:13:02.972
We are growing and trying to become our best selves.
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You know, in light of our personality, our past stories,
00:13:06.876 --> 00:13:11.180
Our past experiences that have shaped us and give us the lens
00:13:11.180 --> 00:13:15.217
Through which we view life, and, you know, having those
00:13:15.217 --> 00:13:18.621
Meaningful relationships, being able to be successful and have
00:13:18.621 --> 00:13:22.258
A place in life that we can contribute and and be known and
00:13:22.258 --> 00:13:27.796
Be masterful.
00:13:27.796 --> 00:13:29.098
All of that is is complex as a human being as we develop and
00:13:29.098 --> 00:13:34.503
And grow older.
00:13:34.503 --> 00:13:36.272
And i think where we get stuck and that's why the intensive
00:13:36.272 --> 00:13:40.342
Process is so good,
00:13:40.342 --> 00:13:41.977
It's a time where we can take just for ourselves, where the
00:13:41.977 --> 00:13:47.283
World rushing all the relationships, and we can look
00:13:47.283 --> 00:13:50.319
At our family of origin journey, our life journey.
00:13:50.319 --> 00:13:55.557
What are those events that have shaped us?
00:13:55.557 --> 00:13:58.160
You know, for good and for negative.
00:13:58.160 --> 00:14:00.996
And i look at the dragons, those, those little things that
00:14:00.996 --> 00:14:07.536
Become the meaning of which we put onto life.
00:14:07.536 --> 00:14:11.340
You know, we've had a lot of maybe dad was so busy he didn't
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:15.377
Pay attention to us or mom was too controlling.
00:14:15.377 --> 00:14:19.081
And now that gives us meaning about ourselves, about each
00:14:19.081 --> 00:14:25.020
Other and about the world around us.
00:14:25.020 --> 00:14:27.256
And sometimes we're reacting to things in life and we're not
00:14:27.256 --> 00:14:30.759
Quite sure why.
00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:32.528
And we're, you know, responding.
00:14:32.528 --> 00:14:35.030
Or we feel mad when someone says, you know, oh, don't
00:14:35.030 --> 00:14:38.634
Forget to close that.
00:14:38.634 --> 00:14:40.135
And we don't know why that makes me mad or defensive.
00:14:40.135 --> 00:14:43.205
And then i want to be critical
00:14:43.205 --> 00:14:44.807
Back and it becomes so automatic.
00:14:44.807 --> 00:14:47.209
But being able to slow down and get to know ourselves, get to
00:14:47.209 --> 00:14:51.080
Know those life experiences that have shaped us, how
00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:54.516
They've shaped us and how we deal, um, in our current
00:14:54.516 --> 00:14:58.887
Relationships and in life situations, how we're repeating
00:14:58.887 --> 00:15:02.992
Those patterns or we are-- yeah.
00:15:02.992 --> 00:15:05.995
Getting triggered all over again and being able to be
00:15:05.995 --> 00:15:10.232
Conscious about that, aware of that process, that so we can
00:15:10.232 --> 00:15:13.802
Make different choices and make
00:15:13.802 --> 00:15:16.538
Sense of those events in our life.
00:15:16.538 --> 00:15:19.541
And it is very powerful.
00:15:19.541 --> 00:15:21.377
Yeah. you know, it's so interesting.
00:15:21.377 --> 00:15:23.445
When i used to work at the 700 club, i remember one morning i
00:15:23.445 --> 00:15:26.782
Was driving into work, and i knew we were having a really
00:15:26.782 --> 00:15:29.752
Important program that day, and there was a homeless person
00:15:29.752 --> 00:15:33.022
Sitting on the side of the road.
00:15:33.022 --> 00:15:34.356
And i remember looking at them and thinking, oh, you probably
00:15:34.356 --> 00:15:37.359
Need some help,
00:15:37.359 --> 00:15:38.794
And driving on because it's like, i'm going to do ministry.
00:15:38.794 --> 00:15:42.498
And at one point, not long before i called you, i felt as
00:15:42.498 --> 00:15:46.769
If the lord said, sheila, you can't just sit on the side of
00:15:46.769 --> 00:15:49.571
The road yourself either.
00:15:49.571 --> 00:15:51.073
You know, my grace and my love is big enough to pay attention
00:15:51.073 --> 00:15:55.110
To and to say, yeah, you know what?
00:15:55.110 --> 00:15:57.112
I'm going to i'm going to sit down and i'm going to listen.
00:15:57.112 --> 00:16:00.082
Doctor duncan, let me ask you, because i asked last night on
00:16:00.082 --> 00:16:02.651
My facebook page, we're doing a discussion on the church and
00:16:02.651 --> 00:16:05.554
Mental health, what would you like to ask?
00:16:05.554 --> 00:16:07.222
And people were like, you know, why do people say it's wrong to
00:16:07.222 --> 00:16:09.892
Take medication?
00:16:09.892 --> 00:16:11.026
Why is there so much stigma?
00:16:11.026 --> 00:16:12.127
Why do people say it's sin in my life?
00:16:12.127 --> 00:16:14.730
What do you, how do you speak into that?
00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:17.833
I'm going to go back to the
00:16:17.833 --> 00:16:19.368
Context of connectedness versus disconnectedness.
00:16:19.368 --> 00:16:24.039
And i love what you just said, sharon.
00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:26.108
And i'm going to kind of piggyback on on that, because i
00:16:26.108 --> 00:16:29.745
Was thinking in anticipation of being here today that, uh, that
00:16:29.745 --> 00:16:35.250
There are several-- there are
00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:38.387
If you accept the fact that we are created for connection and
00:16:38.387 --> 00:16:42.691
You accept the fact that we have an adversary who wants,
00:16:42.691 --> 00:16:46.395
He'll do everything within his power to disconnect us--
00:16:46.395 --> 00:16:50.666
Yeah. uh, and if we're--
00:16:50.666 --> 00:16:53.068
Aware of that.
00:16:53.068 --> 00:16:55.037
Um, then i was thinking about some of the things that
00:16:55.037 --> 00:16:57.906
Disconnect us and, and the shame piece that you just
00:16:57.906 --> 00:17:01.710
Mentioned, the family of origin piece that you, you were
00:17:01.710 --> 00:17:04.847
Talking about a minute ago,
00:17:04.847 --> 00:17:06.548
Certainly there are just dozens of things.
00:17:06.548 --> 00:17:09.284
Trauma disconnects us, sometimes not of our own
00:17:09.284 --> 00:17:12.754
Choosing, not of our own making, but but trauma,
00:17:12.754 --> 00:17:16.592
And then the resulting ptsd can be a very disconnecting thing.
00:17:16.592 --> 00:17:22.064
Uh, addiction certainly is disconnecting.
00:17:22.064 --> 00:17:25.000
And then there are learned patterns of behavior.
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:28.670
So there's a guy that comes into my office and he is angry.
00:17:28.670 --> 00:17:33.876
I mean, his face is red and his fists are clenched, and
00:17:33.876 --> 00:17:37.779
He's telling me how angry he is and why he's so angry.
00:17:37.779 --> 00:17:41.150
And i'll let him talk for a little while, but then i'll
00:17:41.150 --> 00:17:44.720
Interrupt and i'll say, where
00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:46.755
Do you think you learned to be angry?
00:17:46.755 --> 00:17:50.692
And that will usually take him aback and, well, i don't know.
00:17:50.692 --> 00:17:56.465
I just have always been angry
00:17:56.465 --> 00:17:58.367
And said, i don't think that's true.
00:17:58.367 --> 00:18:00.469
I don't think that you were born angry, although some
00:18:00.469 --> 00:18:03.372
Parents may may disagree with that.
00:18:03.372 --> 00:18:06.542
But i think most children, most babies are not born angry.
00:18:06.542 --> 00:18:10.445
They learn how to do that.
00:18:10.445 --> 00:18:12.981
Uh, and if he if i can get him to think and try to recognize
00:18:12.981 --> 00:18:19.421
Where that was modeled for him or how he was treated when he
00:18:19.421 --> 00:18:23.458
Was a child or an infant or a toddler, whatever, and
00:18:23.458 --> 00:18:26.828
He became angry,
00:18:26.828 --> 00:18:28.564
That can be a real, uh, eye opening thing for him.
00:18:28.564 --> 00:18:32.968
I haven't always been angry.
00:18:32.968 --> 00:18:34.603
Negativity is another thing.
00:18:34.603 --> 00:18:36.972
When did you learn to be negative?
00:18:36.972 --> 00:18:38.874
Every the impulse, the immediate impulse out of your
00:18:38.874 --> 00:18:42.211
Mouth is something negative and something, uh, you know, and
00:18:42.211 --> 00:18:47.349
My, my experience in counseling is when people can recognize
00:18:47.349 --> 00:18:52.254
Where those lessons were
00:18:52.254 --> 00:18:54.056
Learned, those patterns were learned,
00:18:54.056 --> 00:18:56.391
That's a that can be a real game changer.
00:18:56.391 --> 00:18:58.827
I think you're right,
00:18:58.827 --> 00:19:00.128
Um, um, that some people say, oh, hogwash.
00:19:00.128 --> 00:19:05.234
You know, that's so, you know, unimportant.
00:19:05.234 --> 00:19:09.271
Yeah. um, and really saying, no, my mental health, my
00:19:09.271 --> 00:19:13.141
Well-being is important.
00:19:13.141 --> 00:19:15.477
And it is shaped by who i am and my life experiences.
00:19:15.477 --> 00:19:20.215
And maybe i am depressed or anxious or suddenly discover
00:19:20.215 --> 00:19:24.519
I'm having a panic attack now that i have a new baby, or i
00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:28.624
Can't process this, or i'm stuck or i, i get this negative
00:19:28.624 --> 00:19:32.527
Thought, that to be able to slow down and really slice thin who
00:19:32.527 --> 00:19:38.734
You are and life experiences and the bricks that have, you
00:19:38.734 --> 00:19:42.738
Know, put on one on top of another, um, is healthy and is
00:19:42.738 --> 00:19:48.644
It's good.
00:19:48.644 --> 00:19:50.045
Um, it's not like, well, i should pray and it should all
00:19:50.045 --> 00:19:52.381
Be gone.
00:19:52.381 --> 00:19:53.649
Um, but sometimes if your brain is stuck and it's more of a
00:19:53.649 --> 00:19:56.551
Medical issue, that sometimes those medications just help you
00:19:56.551 --> 00:19:59.821
Get unhooked, you know, with some talk therapy and that this
00:19:59.821 --> 00:20:04.593
Is a life journey and process that's good and healthy.
00:20:04.593 --> 00:20:08.063
What you were saying a minute ago, sheila, about shame.
00:20:08.063 --> 00:20:11.266
Uh, how many parents are in are accustomed to telling a very
00:20:11.266 --> 00:20:15.470
Small child, you just really
00:20:15.470 --> 00:20:17.205
Ought to be ashamed of yourself.
00:20:17.205 --> 00:20:19.007
Yeah. and the child doesn't know what to do with that.
00:20:19.007 --> 00:20:21.777
If my parents says i should be ashamed, i guess i should be.
00:20:21.777 --> 00:20:25.080
And they don't even know probably what shame is until
00:20:25.080 --> 00:20:28.884
Later on in their life.
00:20:28.884 --> 00:20:30.886
And so one of the things i love to hear from a client in my
00:20:30.886 --> 00:20:35.257
Office is when, uh, you know, it's either a couple or an
00:20:35.257 --> 00:20:38.860
Individual and she will say,
00:20:38.860 --> 00:20:41.797
Okay, well, this came to my mind.
00:20:41.797 --> 00:20:43.598
I think i know where that came from.
00:20:43.598 --> 00:20:45.434
And i say, thank you, lord.
00:20:45.434 --> 00:20:47.536
Thank you lord.
00:20:47.536 --> 00:20:48.837
I think i know where that came from and when we can recognize
00:20:48.837 --> 00:20:51.473
The origins of some of those disconnecting patterns, then
00:20:51.473 --> 00:20:56.578
We're well on our way to
00:20:56.578 --> 00:20:59.181
Helping heal some of those wounds.
00:20:59.181 --> 00:21:02.617
What so much of this is reminding me of is, you know,
00:21:02.617 --> 00:21:06.822
You're talking about connection,
00:21:06.822 --> 00:21:08.256
You're talking about all the stressors.
00:21:08.256 --> 00:21:10.625
Connection is our biggest, biggest weapon that we have
00:21:10.625 --> 00:21:15.597
Against, you know, it's the first thing that we need to
00:21:15.597 --> 00:21:18.633
Look at when there's any kind of mental illness, because
00:21:18.633 --> 00:21:22.704
There's a breakdown in connection somewhere with
00:21:22.704 --> 00:21:24.673
Ourselves or others or god.
00:21:24.673 --> 00:21:27.275
And if you think about that, that's that's what the
00:21:27.275 --> 00:21:31.680
Connection begins to do, is that's the first step in
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:35.650
Restoring the system and the way that that i think about
00:21:35.650 --> 00:21:40.222
Diagnostics, you know, a lot of people will, okay, you're
00:21:40.222 --> 00:21:43.725
Depressed, will treat the depression or the anxiety
00:21:43.725 --> 00:21:45.961
Or the fear. that's good.
00:21:45.961 --> 00:21:48.797
We need to pay attention to and
00:21:48.797 --> 00:21:50.465
Treat symptoms, but those are symptoms.
00:21:50.465 --> 00:21:53.735
The bible paints a picture, and i think good psychology
00:21:53.735 --> 00:21:58.540
Understands that that symptom is coming from somewhere.
00:21:58.540 --> 00:22:02.377
Okay. and the bible's view of this is, you know, you got the
00:22:02.377 --> 00:22:05.781
Tree, but the tree has the fruits and it always talks
00:22:05.781 --> 00:22:07.916
About these fruits.
00:22:07.916 --> 00:22:09.184
But jesus said, we got to pay attention to the tree or the
00:22:09.184 --> 00:22:12.554
Structure, the foundation of who we are as people.
00:22:12.554 --> 00:22:15.524
I love the passage where he says, you know, he talked
00:22:15.524 --> 00:22:18.293
About, if you build your house upon the rock, then the winds
00:22:18.293 --> 00:22:22.397
Are stressors, the winds can come and the rains can come and
00:22:22.397 --> 00:22:24.766
You'll be left standing.
00:22:24.766 --> 00:22:26.668
But if it's built on sand, the winds and stressors and
00:22:26.668 --> 00:22:29.371
Finances and all this will come
00:22:29.371 --> 00:22:30.906
And, you know, you get washed away.
00:22:30.906 --> 00:22:33.341
And what the church does a lot of times, not all the church,
00:22:33.341 --> 00:22:36.244
But many times christians will hear when they're struggling.
00:22:36.244 --> 00:22:40.315
Well, you need to build your
00:22:40.315 --> 00:22:42.250
House on the rock, and that's jesus.
00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:45.587
And you need to stand on the rock.
00:22:45.587 --> 00:22:47.589
And that's kind of the answer.
00:22:47.589 --> 00:22:49.057
Well, read the passage.
00:22:49.057 --> 00:22:51.827
That's not what he said.
00:22:51.827 --> 00:22:53.595
What he said was the one who hears my words, my teachings,
00:22:53.595 --> 00:23:00.001
And puts them into practice,
00:23:00.001 --> 00:23:02.337
They will be like the house that's built on the rock.
00:23:02.337 --> 00:23:06.341
And when we look at the i think of, you know, if you could do
00:23:06.341 --> 00:23:09.611
The 80/20 rule, it's probably more than that,
00:23:09.611 --> 00:23:12.881
So much of what we talk about as mental health struggles
00:23:12.881 --> 00:23:16.985
Basically comes from four
00:23:16.985 --> 00:23:18.587
Buckets other than the biological.
00:23:18.587 --> 00:23:21.690
The first one is the first thing we do in life is we're
00:23:21.690 --> 00:23:25.227
Born and we learn to be connected.
00:23:25.227 --> 00:23:27.429
You got to develop a secure attachment, and people that are
00:23:27.429 --> 00:23:30.298
Connected to-- well, connections get broken.
00:23:30.298 --> 00:23:32.300
We suffer. you build a house.
00:23:32.300 --> 00:23:34.603
That's the foundation.
00:23:34.603 --> 00:23:36.204
But the second thing you do is you frame the house.
00:23:36.204 --> 00:23:39.107
And so that's where we learn the structure of life and
00:23:39.107 --> 00:23:42.611
Learning to have boundaries and learning to say, this is me and
00:23:42.611 --> 00:23:45.113
That's not me and the truths that i live by.
00:23:45.113 --> 00:23:47.782
And life's got to have a structure to it, and our
00:23:47.782 --> 00:23:50.285
Personalities do.
00:23:50.285 --> 00:23:51.753
And if we don't have boundaries, we're chaotic
00:23:51.753 --> 00:23:54.155
And we struggle.
00:23:54.155 --> 00:23:55.590
And once you frame the house, then you got to live in it.
00:23:55.590 --> 00:23:58.059
What does it feel like to live in there?
00:23:58.059 --> 00:23:59.995
Well, it's got to be
00:23:59.995 --> 00:24:01.329
Comfortable enough to live in there.
00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:02.898
And we got two systems that god put in the house of a perso,
00:24:02.898 --> 00:24:06.768
The hvac and the plumbing, the hvac.
00:24:06.768 --> 00:24:11.172
You've got to be able to when you get amped up thermostats
00:24:11.172 --> 00:24:15.644
That read, i'm getting-- and be able to calm down.
00:24:15.644 --> 00:24:19.114
And when you go too low, you got to be able to heat it back up.
00:24:19.114 --> 00:24:22.884
And then also when you live in that house, if you don't have
00:24:22.884 --> 00:24:26.254
Some way to flush out the bad stuff, it's going to start to
00:24:26.254 --> 00:24:28.957
Stink in there, right?
00:24:28.957 --> 00:24:30.325
So we got to be able to-- and god gave us those.
00:24:30.325 --> 00:24:33.261
He gave us grief.
00:24:33.261 --> 00:24:35.597
You know, there's a reason your tear ducts are in your eyes,
00:24:35.597 --> 00:24:39.200
Because your pain is supposed to be seen.
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.136
You could have put them under your arm and you could spray
00:24:41.136 --> 00:24:43.004
Some anti terror stuff.
00:24:43.004 --> 00:24:44.306
Nobody knows you're sad, but we got to deal with the, you know,
00:24:44.306 --> 00:24:48.343
What that happens in life and get it flushed out through
00:24:48.343 --> 00:24:52.914
Forgiveness and grief.
00:24:52.914 --> 00:24:54.115
Basically we let go of the past and we work through it.
00:24:54.115 --> 00:24:57.619
And then fourthly, you got to live in that house, and we don't
00:24:57.619 --> 00:25:00.188
Give houses to children.
00:25:00.188 --> 00:25:01.957
You have to be developing authority and talents to be
00:25:01.957 --> 00:25:06.328
Able to run a life.
00:25:06.328 --> 00:25:07.562
And we need skills.
00:25:07.562 --> 00:25:09.598
Well, when you go to therapy and you're depressed,
00:25:09.598 --> 00:25:13.401
They're either going to find out you're really disconnected
00:25:13.401 --> 00:25:15.403
Or you have no boundaries or you got some pain you haven't
00:25:15.403 --> 00:25:18.139
Fleshed out, or there's some skills and talents you need to
00:25:18.139 --> 00:25:21.977
Be developing so you feel like an adult to other adults and
00:25:21.977 --> 00:25:24.779
Not one down and being judged by everybody.
00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:27.983
And the thing that that i love but drives me crazy
00:25:27.983 --> 00:25:33.989
Is sometimes you don't get that in spiritual circles.
00:25:33.989 --> 00:25:37.158
So you go to therapy
00:25:37.158 --> 00:25:39.828
And then the therapist does those four things, but they're
00:25:39.828 --> 00:25:44.132
All what the bible says we ought to be doing as well
00:25:44.132 --> 00:25:47.902
In the church.
00:25:47.902 --> 00:25:49.404
And so god's ways heal the person, but he doesn't get
00:25:49.404 --> 00:25:52.407
Credit for it.
00:25:52.407 --> 00:25:53.375
Psychotherapy gets credit for
00:25:53.375 --> 00:25:54.709
It, and it's his ways that heal us.
00:25:54.709 --> 00:25:57.579
Yeah.
00:25:57.579 --> 00:25:58.780
If i can just kind of pick up on that, henry,
00:25:58.780 --> 00:26:02.017
Let me just say this before i forget,
00:26:02.017 --> 00:26:04.185
It's really a pleasure for me to meet you, because your
00:26:04.185 --> 00:26:08.023
Boundaries book that was written several years ago,
00:26:08.023 --> 00:26:12.560
30 whatever years ago,
00:26:12.560 --> 00:26:15.630
It was right after, um, the boer war.
00:26:15.630 --> 00:26:18.767
No, they had the printing press.
00:26:18.767 --> 00:26:20.435
They did have the printing press.
00:26:20.435 --> 00:26:22.637
Over the course of my counseling, i've counseled for
00:26:22.637 --> 00:26:26.041
Over four decades now, it has become not one, but my most
00:26:26.041 --> 00:26:32.047
Highly recommended book,
00:26:32.047 --> 00:26:33.581
My most frequently recommended book.
00:26:33.581 --> 00:26:36.151
I have recommended that to individuals and to couples
00:26:36.151 --> 00:26:39.554
Throughout my counseling career, and i have found it
00:26:39.554 --> 00:26:42.757
Personally very, very helpful in my clients do too.
00:26:42.757 --> 00:26:45.627
So, you know, thank you for that.
00:26:45.627 --> 00:26:47.629
Thanks. um, to to pick up on on what you were just saying,
00:26:47.629 --> 00:26:52.167
Um, sheila, i mentioned to you earlier today about a quote
00:26:52.167 --> 00:26:56.905
That i remember you saying, uh, quoting a scottish pastor.
00:26:56.905 --> 00:27:01.142
Would you say that again?
00:27:01.142 --> 00:27:02.777
Yeah. he is an old scottish pastor.
00:27:02.777 --> 00:27:04.479
And he said when he gets in the pulpit every sunday, he's aware
00:27:04.479 --> 00:27:07.549
That there's a broken heart in every pew.
00:27:07.549 --> 00:27:09.651
A broken heart in every pew.
00:27:09.651 --> 00:27:11.052
When i heard you say that several years ago, it really
00:27:11.052 --> 00:27:13.822
Resonated with me. and it still does.
00:27:13.822 --> 00:27:16.458
And i believe it to be true.
00:27:16.458 --> 00:27:18.093
But i also it makes me sad because i think there are a lot
00:27:18.093 --> 00:27:21.663
Of churches, a lot of pastors or pastoral staff, people who
00:27:21.663 --> 00:27:27.102
Don't understand that, they don't recognize that, uh, and
00:27:27.102 --> 00:27:31.072
They don't address that, and maybe they don't know how to
00:27:31.072 --> 00:27:34.209
Address that.
00:27:34.209 --> 00:27:35.477
And so that's that's why a lot of healing probably doesn't
00:27:35.477 --> 00:27:40.582
Take place in a church context, but in a therapeutic context.
00:27:40.582 --> 00:27:44.686
And i think there's that's a
00:27:44.686 --> 00:27:45.887
Real challenge to help, help pastors
00:27:45.887 --> 00:27:49.791
Develop better skills, better counseling skills, or better
00:27:49.791 --> 00:27:54.362
Interactive skills to recognize what's going on with the people
00:27:54.362 --> 00:27:58.566
In the pew.
00:27:58.566 --> 00:27:59.868
And also, and i know that y'all have done this in your churches
00:27:59.868 --> 00:28:04.305
And communities to help the churches establish
00:28:04.305 --> 00:28:08.176
Something that happens during the week that's living out
00:28:08.176 --> 00:28:12.947
Those healing processes.
00:28:12.947 --> 00:28:14.449
You know, we basically go to church.
00:28:14.449 --> 00:28:17.385
We say hi to people, but
00:28:17.385 --> 00:28:19.754
We sit in a chair and all face
00:28:19.754 --> 00:28:21.723
Forward and we hear teaching, right?
00:28:21.723 --> 00:28:25.326
Well, the bible is pretty clear that we need teaching, but do
00:28:25.326 --> 00:28:28.530
Not be hearers of the word only, but doers.
00:28:28.530 --> 00:28:32.433
So something's got to happen in between sunday and sunday,
00:28:32.433 --> 00:28:35.870
Where you hear a sermon on weeping with those who weep.
00:28:35.870 --> 00:28:40.108
Where's the grief group you're going to where you can weep and
00:28:40.108 --> 00:28:43.044
Get healed? yeah.
00:28:43.044 --> 00:28:44.546
Where it says, confess your faults to one another so that
00:28:44.546 --> 00:28:47.649
You may be healed,
00:28:47.649 --> 00:28:48.650
Where during the week are we going?
00:28:48.650 --> 00:28:50.118
And sitting down with our group and talking about how we
00:28:50.118 --> 00:28:52.120
Screwed it up and all this kind of stuff?
00:28:52.120 --> 00:28:54.289
It says admonish the unruly
00:28:54.289 --> 00:28:56.191
Who's speaking into our lives and confronting us.
00:28:56.191 --> 00:28:58.660
That doesn't happen on sunday morning.
00:28:58.660 --> 00:29:00.595
And the great churches that are helping with this mental health
00:29:00.595 --> 00:29:04.599
Crisis are the ones that have during the week,
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:09.404
There is stuff going on if you were abused or if you're
00:29:09.404 --> 00:29:12.106
Addicted, if you're depressed, if your marriage is
00:29:12.106 --> 00:29:14.609
Broken down, that's church.
00:29:14.609 --> 00:29:17.145
Yeah, it's not just sunday.
00:29:17.145 --> 00:29:18.446
And sunday is important, but some people say i go to church,
00:29:18.446 --> 00:29:23.151
You know, but i'm still--
00:29:23.151 --> 00:29:24.519
Well, you went to some teaching, but church is a body
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:28.356
Doing its work, right? right.
00:29:28.356 --> 00:29:30.491
And you don't have to have a broken marriage, you
00:29:30.491 --> 00:29:33.728
Know, a messed up family or an addiction to be in a growth
00:29:33.728 --> 00:29:37.565
Group where your mental health and wellbeing is being tended
00:29:37.565 --> 00:29:42.804
To, that every single human being
00:29:42.804 --> 00:29:46.274
If you're alive, we're on this journey of becoming and
00:29:46.274 --> 00:29:50.378
Growing, becoming like the one who created us, knowing
00:29:50.378 --> 00:29:53.715
Ourselves. you know, an unexamined life is a life not
00:29:53.715 --> 00:29:57.385
Worth living,
00:29:57.385 --> 00:29:58.586
I think a socrates said, you know that for us, as you--
00:29:58.586 --> 00:30:02.590
I loved that model of the image of the house, that i have to
00:30:02.590 --> 00:30:07.328
Know who i am and my connections, and managing my
00:30:07.328 --> 00:30:11.900
Emotions and dealing with my--
00:30:11.900 --> 00:30:15.436
Be good to know your address. where am i?
00:30:15.436 --> 00:30:17.805
Yeah, exactly.
00:30:17.805 --> 00:30:19.707
And that that, though, is a daily journey for all of us.
00:30:19.707 --> 00:30:23.945
That's right.
00:30:23.945 --> 00:30:25.113
Waking up in the morning saying, lord, how am i feeling?
00:30:25.113 --> 00:30:27.115
You know, do i feel triggered today?
00:30:27.115 --> 00:30:28.917
What's my mood?
00:30:28.917 --> 00:30:30.151
Who knows how i'm feeling?
00:30:30.151 --> 00:30:31.619
And yes, it's--
00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:33.421
And to slow down and, and know me and during devotional time
00:30:33.421 --> 00:30:37.625
Not to just which is wonderful you know, do your prayers and
00:30:37.625 --> 00:30:41.029
Your bible reading and your devotional,
00:30:41.029 --> 00:30:42.730
But then doing a me, a who am i?
00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:47.735
What is my best self, my critical spirit?
00:30:47.735 --> 00:30:50.705
You know, she's saying, you know that the first thing comes
00:30:50.705 --> 00:30:52.974
Out of my mouth,
00:30:52.974 --> 00:30:54.242
Why? and what did i do today and why am i feeling anxious
00:30:54.242 --> 00:30:59.380
Or or down?
00:30:59.380 --> 00:31:01.082
Those are everyday issues and a growing journey that we're
00:31:01.082 --> 00:31:05.920
All called on.
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:07.288
And so to have a group that says normal people with
00:31:07.288 --> 00:31:11.059
Everyday issues, you know, i have a woman's group that we're
00:31:11.059 --> 00:31:16.497
Doing virtual retreats, and it's for everyday woman that
00:31:16.497 --> 00:31:21.202
Has everyday issues of just being alive, um, to be able to
00:31:21.202 --> 00:31:27.575
Have a healthy person. it's for all of us,
00:31:27.575 --> 00:31:31.713
This journey. 100%.
00:31:31.713 --> 00:31:32.714
You know, sometimes i'll talk to somebody,
00:31:32.714 --> 00:31:34.916
They really need to be in recovery.
00:31:34.916 --> 00:31:36.217
They got an addiction or something going on, and they'll
00:31:36.217 --> 00:31:39.220
Go, well, i don't, you know, i don't want to go do that.
00:31:39.220 --> 00:31:43.558
I say, what do you think that is?
00:31:43.558 --> 00:31:45.393
And they say, well, you know, all that recovery stuff
00:31:45.393 --> 00:31:47.862
That addicts do.
00:31:47.862 --> 00:31:49.330
I go, no, the things that people are addicted begin to do
00:31:49.330 --> 00:31:54.102
In recovery, they start to do the things that people are
00:31:54.102 --> 00:31:57.972
Sober do in life. yes.
00:31:57.972 --> 00:32:00.875
They admit i need help from god.
00:32:00.875 --> 00:32:03.611
They take moral inventories.
00:32:03.611 --> 00:32:05.480
They make amends.
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:06.914
They go apologize.
00:32:06.914 --> 00:32:08.282
They work on themselves
00:32:08.282 --> 00:32:10.451
Like you're saying. yes.
00:32:10.451 --> 00:32:12.453
That's what we all need to do all the time.
00:32:12.453 --> 00:32:15.056
And we need to have structure for it.
00:32:15.056 --> 00:32:16.824
Right.
00:32:16.824 --> 00:32:18.059
And an environment where we're hurt in relationships, but
00:32:18.059 --> 00:32:21.262
We're also healed.
00:32:21.262 --> 00:32:22.730
And to have those friends and safe community because, you
00:32:22.730 --> 00:32:26.801
Know, research says i can give you the drugs for your
00:32:26.801 --> 00:32:29.971
Depression or anxiety or your panic attacks, but that's only
00:32:29.971 --> 00:32:33.408
Going to work less than 50%.
00:32:33.408 --> 00:32:35.877
It's if you're in a community being able to talk with others,
00:32:35.877 --> 00:32:39.247
Process and um, and be in relationship and do life with
00:32:39.247 --> 00:32:45.086
Others, that that's where we come into this fullness.
00:32:45.086 --> 00:32:49.090
And, you know, we are more and more of a lonely culture.
00:32:49.090 --> 00:32:52.427
So many couples that come to the intensive say, we don't
00:32:52.427 --> 00:32:55.797
Have friends that we can talk deeply with at home, or even
00:32:55.797 --> 00:32:59.767
The the leaders that come for the individual intensive.
00:32:59.767 --> 00:33:03.104
They say, but going back home, you know, i have a therapist,
00:33:03.104 --> 00:33:06.774
But where is that community?
00:33:06.774 --> 00:33:08.443
Why is that, though?
00:33:08.443 --> 00:33:09.744
Why do people who should like, should know better, should know
00:33:09.744 --> 00:33:13.381
Leaders, church pastors, whatever should know that we
00:33:13.381 --> 00:33:16.217
Need, that we were made father, son and holy spirit unity,
00:33:16.217 --> 00:33:19.654
We were made for that,
00:33:19.654 --> 00:33:20.721
Why? why don't we?
00:33:20.721 --> 00:33:22.056
Why is there such a--
00:33:22.056 --> 00:33:23.925
I remember when i was in seminary, the guys in seminary
00:33:23.925 --> 00:33:27.428
With me who were training to be pastors, i was actually
00:33:27.428 --> 00:33:29.530
Training to be a missionary in india,
00:33:29.530 --> 00:33:31.099
But the guys in seminary who were trained to be pastors were
00:33:31.099 --> 00:33:33.267
Told, don't get close to anybody in the church because
00:33:33.267 --> 00:33:36.070
You need to keep your life private.
00:33:36.070 --> 00:33:37.772
You know, you need to --
00:33:37.772 --> 00:33:39.774
And i'm like, well, who are they supposed to go to?
00:33:39.774 --> 00:33:41.909
Well, one thing that i heard a therapist say years ago is, uh,
00:33:41.909 --> 00:33:48.049
You know, the definition of originality is forgetting where
00:33:48.049 --> 00:33:51.486
You got it, you know?
00:33:51.486 --> 00:33:53.387
So, i don't know, this is not original, but he said, think
00:33:53.387 --> 00:33:57.258
About a five year old child, a five year old child who's been
00:33:57.258 --> 00:33:59.827
Caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
00:33:59.827 --> 00:34:02.163
And what are his impulses?
00:34:02.163 --> 00:34:04.198
He's going to-- he's going to lie.
00:34:04.198 --> 00:34:07.368
He's going to blame and or he's going to hide.
00:34:07.368 --> 00:34:12.039
And i see that behavior in adults, uh, particularly
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:16.477
Hiding, lying and blaming.
00:34:16.477 --> 00:34:19.614
Uh, some people don't grow out of that.
00:34:19.614 --> 00:34:23.484
Uh, and that's, that's where a lot of this disconnection, this
00:34:23.484 --> 00:34:26.220
Solitary thing comes from.
00:34:26.220 --> 00:34:29.056
Even to the question of how are you doing?
00:34:29.056 --> 00:34:30.958
Oh. i'm fine. yeah.
00:34:30.958 --> 00:34:32.894
But it's so but it is very vulnerable to be known
00:34:32.894 --> 00:34:36.564
And to be seen.
00:34:36.564 --> 00:34:38.299
And that once we can normalize that as human beings, i'm going
00:34:38.299 --> 00:34:42.670
To wake up in the morning and i'm going to probably have some
00:34:42.670 --> 00:34:45.907
Negative thoughts or fears, or
00:34:45.907 --> 00:34:47.975
I may not still be mad at my husband.
00:34:47.975 --> 00:34:50.811
I may not like the kids.
00:34:50.811 --> 00:34:52.146
I may not be i might be disappointed in this or or i
00:34:52.146 --> 00:34:55.917
Feel like maybe i haven't done
00:34:55.917 --> 00:34:57.718
Enough or not doing it perfectly.
00:34:57.718 --> 00:35:00.054
All these dragons, all these negative self-talk that we have
00:35:00.054 --> 00:35:05.259
Is normal and that we will have struggles.
00:35:05.259 --> 00:35:08.563
And i think to be known and to be seen and to be vulnerable
00:35:08.563 --> 00:35:13.201
Once we start it, it does snowball.
00:35:13.201 --> 00:35:16.404
The more i can share, the more you can see,
00:35:16.404 --> 00:35:19.941
Whoa, you're kind of put
00:35:19.941 --> 00:35:21.008
Together, but you still struggle,
00:35:21.008 --> 00:35:22.710
Oh, i can be honest here.
00:35:22.710 --> 00:35:25.279
That's why transparency is so important.
00:35:25.279 --> 00:35:27.215
And that was one of the lessons that i learned during my own
00:35:27.215 --> 00:35:29.417
Time in the hospital. yes.
00:35:29.417 --> 00:35:30.851
The companionship of brokenness.
00:35:30.851 --> 00:35:32.687
Or as my friend brennan manning used to say to me, those whose
00:35:32.687 --> 00:35:35.590
Cheese keeps falling off their crackers.
00:35:35.590 --> 00:35:38.993
Yes. to your question,
00:35:38.993 --> 00:35:40.828
Though, that relates, you know, you said,
00:35:40.828 --> 00:35:42.563
Why don't we, you know, why don't we-- ought to know.
00:35:42.563 --> 00:35:45.933
Why don't we do it?
00:35:45.933 --> 00:35:47.134
It was sad that you had to go to a place that hung up a
00:35:47.134 --> 00:35:52.473
Shingle that said we are safe.
00:35:52.473 --> 00:35:55.643
Just, you know, you're talking about safety and connection,
00:35:55.643 --> 00:35:58.179
Those, you know, the underbelly of connection.
00:35:58.179 --> 00:36:01.716
And they said, we're here for you.
00:36:01.716 --> 00:36:03.184
And a lot of people like you're saying, i don't have this in my
00:36:03.184 --> 00:36:06.254
Friend circles or this, that and the other.
00:36:06.254 --> 00:36:09.423
Or i don't have that in my church.
00:36:09.423 --> 00:36:11.392
Or in your church.
00:36:11.392 --> 00:36:12.660
Well, what i would say to them is, well, it's possible you
00:36:12.660 --> 00:36:18.466
Have it if you would,
00:36:18.466 --> 00:36:20.534
If a good friend is safe and
00:36:20.534 --> 00:36:21.836
Not judgmental and you know, crazy,
00:36:21.836 --> 00:36:25.506
Take the first step and say, can we talk about something?
00:36:25.506 --> 00:36:29.043
If they're a good friend and they're
00:36:29.043 --> 00:36:30.544
And they're compassionate,
00:36:30.544 --> 00:36:33.481
I've been struggling.
00:36:33.481 --> 00:36:35.583
Take the first step.
00:36:35.583 --> 00:36:36.851
Now, if you have 2 or 3 misses with that, then if you can't
00:36:36.851 --> 00:36:40.955
Find it on your own,
00:36:40.955 --> 00:36:43.591
Then go to a place that's hanging up a sign that says
00:36:43.591 --> 00:36:48.863
It's safe here, it's confidential.
00:36:48.863 --> 00:36:52.166
We're not going to tell anybody.
00:36:52.166 --> 00:36:53.401
And we also bring something to the party.
00:36:53.401 --> 00:36:55.269
We've had training and we know what to do, and that could even
00:36:55.269 --> 00:36:57.672
Be a middle ground of a good recovery group or a church with
00:36:57.672 --> 00:37:01.208
Trained counselors.
00:37:01.208 --> 00:37:02.410
But if you can't find it on your own, don't let that
00:37:02.410 --> 00:37:04.712
Shut you down.
00:37:04.712 --> 00:37:06.113
Go to the place that's inviting you to come be vulnerable.
00:37:06.113 --> 00:37:09.750
I think that's huge.
00:37:09.750 --> 00:37:10.751
I mean, i discovered pre-hospital that it was
00:37:10.751 --> 00:37:13.454
Possible to be very well known and desperately lonely.
00:37:13.454 --> 00:37:16.257
Yes, that's how i lived.
00:37:16.257 --> 00:37:17.525
I was very well known through television, but desperately
00:37:17.525 --> 00:37:19.927
Lonely because i didn't want to let anyone in.
00:37:19.927 --> 00:37:22.697
And discovering that it's okay not to be okay.
00:37:22.697 --> 00:37:26.000
But i'll an example.
00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:28.769
Um, i'm in a coffee shop before church, and the couple in front
00:37:28.769 --> 00:37:32.373
Of me are arguing.
00:37:32.373 --> 00:37:33.641
I mean, they are mad with each other, and i'm just kind of,
00:37:33.641 --> 00:37:35.676
You know, waiting.
00:37:35.676 --> 00:37:36.544
And she's calling him things
00:37:36.544 --> 00:37:38.112
That are not in the new testament.
00:37:38.112 --> 00:37:40.147
They may have been in the old, but they didn't make it into
00:37:40.147 --> 00:37:42.183
The new covenant.
00:37:42.183 --> 00:37:43.617
And then and i get my coffee and i get to church, and i was
00:37:43.617 --> 00:37:45.886
There in front of me going into church.
00:37:45.886 --> 00:37:47.822
And the guy at the door who's this darling, sweet man who
00:37:47.822 --> 00:37:50.324
Greets everybody, he said, how are you guys doing today?
00:37:50.324 --> 00:37:51.926
And they're like, oh, we're just praising jesus.
00:37:51.926 --> 00:37:54.895
And there was something in me
00:37:54.895 --> 00:37:55.996
That thought, lord, this is ridiculous.
00:37:55.996 --> 00:37:57.998
This is not why you died.
00:37:57.998 --> 00:37:59.533
This is not why you came and why you died.
00:37:59.533 --> 00:38:02.236
Why is it that we find it so hard--
00:38:02.236 --> 00:38:03.971
And you said because it makes us vulnerable.
00:38:03.971 --> 00:38:05.840
But to be honest. there's such freedom in telling the truth.
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:09.910
Well, you're a greek scholar.
00:38:09.910 --> 00:38:12.480
You know what the word hypocrite means? in the new
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:14.949
Testament means actor.
00:38:14.949 --> 00:38:16.250
Yeah, we're in a mask.
00:38:16.250 --> 00:38:17.418
You would go to the theater.
00:38:17.418 --> 00:38:18.786
Let's go watch the hypocrites tonight.
00:38:18.786 --> 00:38:20.721
They're having a play.
00:38:20.721 --> 00:38:22.223
And that's what happens a lot of times.
00:38:22.223 --> 00:38:24.525
And one of the things that i want to pick up on what you
00:38:24.525 --> 00:38:27.628
Said about two things, connection and safety.
00:38:27.628 --> 00:38:30.898
Okay. our system gets triggered, it gets wired,
00:38:30.898 --> 00:38:34.468
It gets amped.
00:38:34.468 --> 00:38:36.771
Maybe stuff we're carrying around, maybe stuff that's
00:38:36.771 --> 00:38:38.873
Triggered, maybe something that happens today, so that the
00:38:38.873 --> 00:38:41.809
Central nervous system, everything is now we're in
00:38:41.809 --> 00:38:44.812
Stress mode internally, right?
00:38:44.812 --> 00:38:46.647
That creates a lot of problems.
00:38:46.647 --> 00:38:50.184
What reduces that?
00:38:50.184 --> 00:38:52.420
What does the kid do when they're hurt?
00:38:52.420 --> 00:38:54.855
They run to mom.
00:38:54.855 --> 00:38:56.991
You know, that's what-- we're designed to run to
00:38:56.991 --> 00:38:59.260
Connection. pain should be a signal to run to connection,
00:38:59.260 --> 00:39:02.363
But oftentimes it's not safe.
00:39:02.363 --> 00:39:04.565
But here's the big problem.
00:39:04.565 --> 00:39:07.735
Connection can only help us if it is the pain that is
00:39:07.735 --> 00:39:15.009
Being connected with.
00:39:15.009 --> 00:39:17.344
So we can't go to church and be around people and not
00:39:17.344 --> 00:39:20.214
Take off the mask.
00:39:20.214 --> 00:39:21.348
It's the vulnerability.
00:39:21.348 --> 00:39:23.284
That's where the, that's where the medicine needs to
00:39:23.284 --> 00:39:25.886
Get to the infection.
00:39:25.886 --> 00:39:27.154
If we got skin covering it, it's not going to get it's not
00:39:27.154 --> 00:39:29.723
Going to get down there.
00:39:29.723 --> 00:39:31.025
So i just want to have people to think about this.
00:39:31.025 --> 00:39:34.094
I call those transformational moments.
00:39:34.094 --> 00:39:37.698
Now what i mean by that is we are in one state of being.
00:39:37.698 --> 00:39:43.370
I'm lonely. i'm hurting.
00:39:43.370 --> 00:39:46.307
I'm confused.
00:39:46.307 --> 00:39:48.342
I need clarity, i need courage.
00:39:48.342 --> 00:39:51.078
Okay. that's where i am right now.
00:39:51.078 --> 00:39:54.882
A connection is when we go to god in somebody else.
00:39:54.882 --> 00:40:00.187
And in that connection, that connection transforms that
00:40:00.187 --> 00:40:05.793
State of being. now, i'm not lonely, i feel--
00:40:05.793 --> 00:40:08.529
Thanks, i feel better, i was confused. thanks, i feel so--
00:40:08.529 --> 00:40:12.266
The more of those transformational moments we
00:40:12.266 --> 00:40:15.669
Have that have to come from vulnerability, that the proverb
00:40:15.669 --> 00:40:20.441
Says a hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing
00:40:20.441 --> 00:40:26.113
Fulfilled becomes a tree of life.
00:40:26.113 --> 00:40:28.249
It's like a baby that gets fed every three hours.
00:40:28.249 --> 00:40:31.051
Gradually. they only need it every 4 or 5 hours.
00:40:31.051 --> 00:40:33.854
Then they sleep through the night, and then they don't want
00:40:33.854 --> 00:40:35.656
To see mama anymore.
00:40:35.656 --> 00:40:36.423
They want to go play, right?
00:40:36.423 --> 00:40:37.858
But those connections from
00:40:37.858 --> 00:40:39.527
Vulnerability built structure inside.
00:40:39.527 --> 00:40:42.429
And we have to accrue them.
00:40:42.429 --> 00:40:45.633
The prodigal son, when he was in the far country, he was not
00:40:45.633 --> 00:40:50.838
Where he was created to be.
00:40:50.838 --> 00:40:53.807
He was not doing what he was created to be doing.
00:40:53.807 --> 00:40:57.645
He was not living the life that he was created to live.
00:40:57.645 --> 00:41:01.982
But he had to go through that pain and that
00:41:01.982 --> 00:41:05.653
Suffering to come to that, come
00:41:05.653 --> 00:41:08.756
To himself and to be vulnerable.
00:41:08.756 --> 00:41:11.725
And what did it take for him to trudge home?
00:41:11.725 --> 00:41:15.863
Uh, and ask his father
00:41:15.863 --> 00:41:18.399
For a job on the farm, you know.
00:41:18.399 --> 00:41:23.370
I think it's a perfect example that we sometimes the suffering
00:41:23.370 --> 00:41:27.908
That we go through, if we pay close enough attention, if we
00:41:27.908 --> 00:41:32.046
Recognize what we're supposed to learn from that divorce or
00:41:32.046 --> 00:41:36.884
From the loss of a loved one, or from whatever the trauma may
00:41:36.884 --> 00:41:41.522
Be, then there are some wonderful, wonderful, lifelong
00:41:41.522 --> 00:41:45.693
Lessons, uh, healing lessons in that.
00:41:45.693 --> 00:41:50.598
And i think also, if we look at each other and we all realize
00:41:50.598 --> 00:41:55.970
That we've all got a few marbles missing and a screw
00:41:55.970 --> 00:42:00.140
Loose, that we all have a dragon, we all have an issue
00:42:00.140 --> 00:42:05.045
That maybe i'm afraid of not being good enough, or i'm
00:42:05.045 --> 00:42:09.550
Afraid of being criticized, or i'm afraid of falling short, or
00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:13.087
I'll be a disappointment.
00:42:13.087 --> 00:42:14.388
We all have those little fears.
00:42:14.388 --> 00:42:16.991
I call them dragons,
00:42:16.991 --> 00:42:18.225
Those issues that when we realize that i am trying to be
00:42:18.225 --> 00:42:22.630
Put together as much as possible, i just want to live a
00:42:22.630 --> 00:42:25.633
Good life, to be loved, have meaning and purpose, and to be
00:42:25.633 --> 00:42:29.370
Able to, you know, have my needs met of safety.
00:42:29.370 --> 00:42:33.107
I have a home, a family, i belong, i'm working.
00:42:33.107 --> 00:42:36.610
We all want those basic needs
00:42:36.610 --> 00:42:39.580
To be met, but we've all got issues.
00:42:39.580 --> 00:42:42.182
And when we realize that when we look at another human being,
00:42:42.182 --> 00:42:45.552
We can say, you know, i don't know what your issue is, henry,
00:42:45.552 --> 00:42:49.356
But you've got an issue. more than one.
00:42:49.356 --> 00:42:51.759
You have more than one.
00:42:51.759 --> 00:42:52.960
Okay? you've got a couple of dragons, you have a herd.
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.162
And that if --
00:42:55.162 --> 00:42:57.197
A herd.[laughter] if i can,
00:42:57.197 --> 00:42:59.166
If i can be vulnerable and be kind and be
00:42:59.166 --> 00:43:04.405
Thoughtful in saying that maybe you know you are sensitive to
00:43:04.405 --> 00:43:08.809
Being embarrassed or not good enough or not belonging or
00:43:08.809 --> 00:43:13.280
Whatever that is,
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:14.882
If i know i have my issue, you know that i'll be left out,
00:43:14.882 --> 00:43:19.887
That i'm not good enough,
00:43:19.887 --> 00:43:21.622
You know, that i need to be invisible
00:43:21.622 --> 00:43:23.824
Because growing up in a south african british culture, you
00:43:23.824 --> 00:43:27.861
Should be ashamed of yourself.
00:43:27.861 --> 00:43:29.363
Okay. that's the way you're responding to that dragon
00:43:29.363 --> 00:43:32.366
And that pain. i can have compassion for you.
00:43:32.366 --> 00:43:35.135
I can then say, going to church, you know,
00:43:35.135 --> 00:43:39.740
How are you,
00:43:39.740 --> 00:43:40.574
Sharon? i can say, you know, i'm--
00:43:40.574 --> 00:43:43.077
I'm fine. but you know what?
00:43:43.077 --> 00:43:44.611
Life is difficult. i'm aging.
00:43:44.611 --> 00:43:46.880
Um, you know, i've got kids and grandkids, and i'm married, and
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:51.218
I'm still in a career.
00:43:51.218 --> 00:43:53.253
I can admit to the everyday normal difficulties and
00:43:53.253 --> 00:43:58.158
Stresses and anxieties of life.
00:43:58.158 --> 00:44:00.794
And that i've got a dragon just like you do.
00:44:00.794 --> 00:44:03.063
And maybe the problem is you don't know you have a dragon
00:44:03.063 --> 00:44:06.834
Yet, but you've got it.
00:44:06.834 --> 00:44:08.068
Which is a bigger dragon. and which is a bigger dragon.
00:44:08.068 --> 00:44:10.037
Or i know that i'm--
00:44:10.037 --> 00:44:11.905
You're hiding yours, trying to pretend you don't have it.
00:44:11.905 --> 00:44:14.908
But we all have it.
00:44:14.908 --> 00:44:16.877
And that can level the playing field that we can all then have
00:44:16.877 --> 00:44:23.183
Compassion for each other at church.
00:44:23.183 --> 00:44:27.121
I just thought of a funny story.
00:44:27.121 --> 00:44:29.890
Um, back when i was doing a lot of hospital work, there was a
00:44:29.890 --> 00:44:33.727
Woman that that had checked in for an eating disorder, and
00:44:33.727 --> 00:44:39.767
She, uh, she was a law student.
00:44:39.767 --> 00:44:43.670
And the first two days that she was in there, she'd come to
00:44:43.670 --> 00:44:47.741
Group, like, dressed to the nines.
00:44:47.741 --> 00:44:49.877
I mean, she looked so made up and all this.
00:44:49.877 --> 00:44:52.112
Everybody else had sweats.
00:44:52.112 --> 00:44:53.447
And, you know, we're in a psych hospital, right?
00:44:53.447 --> 00:44:56.350
So the third day, i said, let me ask you a question.
00:44:56.350 --> 00:45:00.921
I said, why do you always get so dressed up perfectly to
00:45:00.921 --> 00:45:03.957
Come to group?
00:45:03.957 --> 00:45:05.325
And she goes, well, i have to look--
00:45:05.325 --> 00:45:06.994
I said, what do you mean you have to?
00:45:06.994 --> 00:45:08.262
She said, well, she started to talk about it and she would
00:45:08.262 --> 00:45:11.932
Actually start to get nervous.
00:45:11.932 --> 00:45:13.333
No, i couldn't, i would--
00:45:13.333 --> 00:45:15.202
And then this came out, this internal drive
00:45:15.202 --> 00:45:18.906
She had to have to look like she had it all together and
00:45:18.906 --> 00:45:21.875
Always make straight a's and always do everything like
00:45:21.875 --> 00:45:24.611
Was supposed to be done.
00:45:24.611 --> 00:45:26.079
Now, that particular day, this was in los angeles.
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:29.416
I was at the hospital.
00:45:29.416 --> 00:45:31.285
I had to leave there, and i was speaking at a big event at usc,
00:45:31.285 --> 00:45:35.956
And it was a big fancy deal.
00:45:35.956 --> 00:45:38.592
I've got on, that day i had on a tie, a white starched shirt.
00:45:38.592 --> 00:45:42.663
You know, i'm ready to go because i had to run from
00:45:42.663 --> 00:45:44.565
There to go--
00:45:44.565 --> 00:45:46.099
And i looked at her and said, you know what?
00:45:46.099 --> 00:45:47.801
I'm going to give you a present.
00:45:47.801 --> 00:45:50.470
She said-- well, the whole group is there.
00:45:50.470 --> 00:45:52.339
And i had a big mug of coffee.
00:45:52.339 --> 00:45:55.642
And i said, i told her, i said, i got to go speak at a formal
00:45:55.642 --> 00:45:59.813
Event to all the big donors and all of this, and i want you to
00:45:59.813 --> 00:46:05.786
Remember, i don't have time to go change.
00:46:05.786 --> 00:46:07.287
I want you to think about what i'm going to look like when i
00:46:07.287 --> 00:46:10.190
Go on stage.
00:46:10.190 --> 00:46:11.458
And i took the coffee and i poured it over my head and down
00:46:11.458 --> 00:46:13.260
My shirt, and her eyes got this big.
00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:17.698
I said, every time you think you have to be perfect, i want
00:46:17.698 --> 00:46:20.500
You to remember how stupid i look right now,
00:46:20.500 --> 00:46:24.271
Okay? 20 years later, i met her
00:46:24.271 --> 00:46:27.641
At a celebrate recovery conference.
00:46:27.641 --> 00:46:31.111
This woman walks up to the book table and she says, do you
00:46:31.111 --> 00:46:33.413
Remember me?
00:46:33.413 --> 00:46:35.883
I said, no, you look kind of --
00:46:35.883 --> 00:46:37.851
She said, i'm the coffee girl.
00:46:37.851 --> 00:46:41.388
I said, what? she said, remember?
00:46:41.388 --> 00:46:43.056
And then i went, oh my gosh.
00:46:43.056 --> 00:46:44.091
And i recognized her.
00:46:44.091 --> 00:46:44.992
I said, is she?
00:46:44.992 --> 00:46:46.426
She said, that day that picture started a process of i don't
00:46:46.426 --> 00:46:51.832
Have to have it all together anymore.
00:46:51.832 --> 00:46:53.934
And she said, that's what
00:46:53.934 --> 00:46:55.669
Started to break my food problem.
00:46:55.669 --> 00:47:00.073
And now she leads recovery groups
00:47:00.073 --> 00:47:01.842
And that's why she was there.
00:47:01.842 --> 00:47:03.010
That is the pressure to have to look like we got it--
00:47:03.010 --> 00:47:06.079
It's a sickness.
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:07.281
Yeah, but when we can come alongside each other and let
00:47:07.281 --> 00:47:10.918
Young moms or, you know, hard working, you know, in the
00:47:10.918 --> 00:47:15.722
Middle of your career or aging people, you know, you don't
00:47:15.722 --> 00:47:19.359
Have to be perfect.
00:47:19.359 --> 00:47:20.894
You can be the best version of you.
00:47:20.894 --> 00:47:23.263
And i want to sit alongside you in the midst of whatever season
00:47:23.263 --> 00:47:27.267
Of life, whatever difficulty you're in, and just be with you
00:47:27.267 --> 00:47:31.939
And let you know it's okay to have a little bit of a not so
00:47:31.939 --> 00:47:37.344
Tidy house, or not to be perfectly dressed or.
00:47:37.344 --> 00:47:41.148
But i'm doing the best i can with what i have, and i think
00:47:41.148 --> 00:47:44.284
Most of us really want to know how can i be doing the best i
00:47:44.284 --> 00:47:49.723
Can with what i have, even though i have these internal
00:47:49.723 --> 00:47:52.893
Struggles or these external pressures and i,
00:47:52.893 --> 00:47:57.097
I want to know how to have the best mental health, emotional
00:47:57.097 --> 00:48:00.767
Health, spiritual health, my best relationships.
00:48:00.767 --> 00:48:04.972
And we need each other to know what that looks like.
00:48:04.972 --> 00:48:08.942
There's something so powerful when you finally begin to
00:48:08.942 --> 00:48:11.611
Realize that jesus sees you as you really are and loves you as
00:48:11.611 --> 00:48:15.549
You really are. yeah.
00:48:15.549 --> 00:48:16.917
When i was in the hospital and the third week,
00:48:16.917 --> 00:48:18.819
The other patients made me the entertainment secretary and
00:48:18.819 --> 00:48:22.322
Which i now have on my resume.
00:48:22.322 --> 00:48:24.758
Um, and i rented a movie one night and it was called
00:48:24.758 --> 00:48:28.061
The dream team.
00:48:28.061 --> 00:48:29.296
It's about a bunch of psych patients who get lost going
00:48:29.296 --> 00:48:32.132
To a baseball game. and i put it in
00:48:32.132 --> 00:48:34.301
And i made popcorn for everybody.
00:48:34.301 --> 00:48:35.569
And one of them was a pastor who was leading a double life.
00:48:35.569 --> 00:48:37.637
He was homosexual and had been
00:48:37.637 --> 00:48:39.873
Found out, thrown out of his church.
00:48:39.873 --> 00:48:41.141
One was a missionary home on furlough who'd slit her wrist.
00:48:41.141 --> 00:48:44.578
We were all the wounded, and we sat there that night watching
00:48:44.578 --> 00:48:48.548
This movie and laughing together.
00:48:48.548 --> 00:48:51.118
And i remember thinking, lord,
00:48:51.118 --> 00:48:52.085
This is one of my favorite nights.
00:48:52.085 --> 00:48:53.954
I'm in a psych hospital and we're all struggling, but there
00:48:53.954 --> 00:48:57.524
Was something about that just you know what?
00:48:57.524 --> 00:48:59.459
But you see us all. yes.
00:48:59.459 --> 00:49:00.794
You see us all as we are. and you love us as we are.
00:49:00.794 --> 00:49:02.996
So we've only got five minutes left.
00:49:02.996 --> 00:49:04.231
So i want to ask each one of you if there's any kind of
00:49:04.231 --> 00:49:06.900
Practical tool or a first step that you would recommend for
00:49:06.900 --> 00:49:10.137
People who are watching, thinking, i want to, i want to
00:49:10.137 --> 00:49:12.873
Be healthy, i want to to have connection.
00:49:12.873 --> 00:49:15.809
But i honestly don't even kind of know where to start.
00:49:15.809 --> 00:49:18.412
Any of you? well, there are some people,
00:49:18.412 --> 00:49:22.416
My first thought was, listen to your pain.
00:49:22.416 --> 00:49:25.118
I mean, where you have stress, where you have anxiety, where
00:49:25.118 --> 00:49:27.287
You have relationship struggles and and take that and go talk
00:49:27.287 --> 00:49:30.557
To somebody who knows something about it, you know, layperson,
00:49:30.557 --> 00:49:33.727
Professional, but somebody that brings something to the party.
00:49:33.727 --> 00:49:37.497
But then i thought, wait a minute, there are people
00:49:37.497 --> 00:49:42.235
That really think they've kind of
00:49:42.235 --> 00:49:43.403
Got it together. i don't really have any issues.
00:49:43.403 --> 00:49:46.840
Well, you might not think you have any issues, but you have
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:52.512
Stakeholders around you that and go ask the people that you
00:49:52.512 --> 00:49:58.351
Trust that are close to you,
00:49:58.351 --> 00:50:00.187
I want you to be perfectly honest with me,
00:50:00.187 --> 00:50:02.189
Where do you think i have issues?
00:50:02.189 --> 00:50:04.224
Maybe we can start there now.
00:50:04.224 --> 00:50:05.392
If they lie to you because they're so afraid of you,
00:50:05.392 --> 00:50:08.995
Then i would--
00:50:08.995 --> 00:50:10.697
I would really sit down with somebody and say, okay, i heard
00:50:10.697 --> 00:50:14.334
These shrinks tell me that if i don't think i have any issues,
00:50:14.334 --> 00:50:17.804
Then i got an issue.
00:50:17.804 --> 00:50:19.005
Can you help me figure out what that is?
00:50:19.005 --> 00:50:20.574
Because they will seeit. that's so good.
00:50:20.574 --> 00:50:23.143
Doctor duncan,do you have anything to add?
00:50:23.143 --> 00:50:24.711
Well, what comes comes to my mind--
00:50:24.711 --> 00:50:26.913
I don't know if y'all--
00:50:26.913 --> 00:50:28.815
Probably familiar with doctor harville hendrix
00:50:28.815 --> 00:50:32.352
And helen lakelly hunt, his wife.
00:50:32.352 --> 00:50:35.322
They've developed a
00:50:35.322 --> 00:50:36.823
System called safe conversations.
00:50:36.823 --> 00:50:39.659
My colleagues and i
00:50:39.659 --> 00:50:42.229
In my office were trained in this system.
00:50:42.229 --> 00:50:45.465
It's a couples, primarily a
00:50:45.465 --> 00:50:47.200
Couples communication education system.
00:50:47.200 --> 00:50:49.569
About ten years ago.
00:50:49.569 --> 00:50:51.304
And it changed the way that i
00:50:51.304 --> 00:50:53.340
Counsel with couples just completely.
00:50:53.340 --> 00:50:56.143
It was-- it was, uh, yeah.
00:50:56.143 --> 00:50:59.279
So every two and-- twice a year, we present a safe
00:50:59.279 --> 00:51:03.884
Conversations workshop, uh, in north dallas.
00:51:03.884 --> 00:51:08.155
It's free of charge.
00:51:08.155 --> 00:51:09.356
We donate our time, but it's primarily to help couples,
00:51:09.356 --> 00:51:15.095
Either married couples or unmarried couples, but to learn
00:51:15.095 --> 00:51:18.331
How to listen with that, with that safety.
00:51:18.331 --> 00:51:23.436
You may not know anybody who feels safe to you right
00:51:23.436 --> 00:51:28.441
Now, but i would encourage anyone who's listening or
00:51:28.441 --> 00:51:32.112
Watching this to find somebody if they're not
00:51:32.112 --> 00:51:36.416
Completely safe, at least maybe they're semi-safe and say, i'm
00:51:36.416 --> 00:51:41.087
Going to, i'm going to open up to you.
00:51:41.087 --> 00:51:42.622
And i really want you to be honest with me, and i hope that
00:51:42.622 --> 00:51:45.158
I can get some good feedback.
00:51:45.158 --> 00:51:46.893
Like you were saying, henry,
00:51:46.893 --> 00:51:48.395
Just a few minutes ago.
00:51:48.395 --> 00:51:49.996
And there are some people i know who don't probably would
00:51:49.996 --> 00:51:54.201
Say, i don't know anybody that i consider to be safe, but you
00:51:54.201 --> 00:51:59.105
May not know that because you haven't tested the waters yet.
00:51:59.105 --> 00:52:03.276
That's right.
00:52:03.276 --> 00:52:04.211
There are some safe people out there.
00:52:04.211 --> 00:52:05.478
You just don't know yet who they are until you stick your
00:52:05.478 --> 00:52:09.316
Toe in that water.
00:52:09.316 --> 00:52:10.617
And you're talking about how, you know, if somebody doesn't
00:52:10.617 --> 00:52:13.019
Think they-- you know what?
00:52:13.019 --> 00:52:14.588
Then one of the things i would say is, okay, well, then i want
00:52:14.588 --> 00:52:18.458
You to sit down and i want you to tell your story.
00:52:18.458 --> 00:52:24.664
Because nobody's got a story where there weren't bumps of
00:52:24.664 --> 00:52:31.504
Pain and have somebody that when it gets to that moment,
00:52:31.504 --> 00:52:35.976
Say, hold on a second.
00:52:35.976 --> 00:52:38.345
What did that feel like when your dad died?
00:52:38.345 --> 00:52:41.381
Yeah.
00:52:41.381 --> 00:52:42.716
And usually what you're going to see is a little misty
00:52:42.716 --> 00:52:46.186
Eye or a little quiver or--
00:52:46.186 --> 00:52:47.887
No, let's just hang out here a bit.
00:52:47.887 --> 00:52:49.589
Yeah. people's stories have pain
00:52:49.589 --> 00:52:53.927
And just start there.
00:52:53.927 --> 00:52:56.630
Get in a safe place and tell your story.
00:52:56.630 --> 00:52:58.598
I love that.
00:52:58.598 --> 00:52:59.466
Do you have a final thought, sharon?
00:52:59.466 --> 00:53:01.167
You know, yes.
00:53:01.167 --> 00:53:02.269
We all want to be the best version of ourselves.
00:53:02.269 --> 00:53:05.272
And this personal growth journey is a journey the lord
00:53:05.272 --> 00:53:09.042
Wants all of us to go on.
00:53:09.042 --> 00:53:11.144
And it's an invitation to all of us.
00:53:11.144 --> 00:53:13.580
We don't have to have big issues to start the journey.
00:53:13.580 --> 00:53:16.850
And so i do recommend everyone taking a journal out and
00:53:16.850 --> 00:53:20.887
Writing your own life story and looking at it saying, how does
00:53:20.887 --> 00:53:25.358
My story impact me?
00:53:25.358 --> 00:53:27.360
How have i reacted or related to others?
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:31.598
Um, how do i defend and protect myself?
00:53:31.598 --> 00:53:34.467
And is it working?
00:53:34.467 --> 00:53:36.236
And how do i want to grow and become?
00:53:36.236 --> 00:53:40.240
And then to find that community.
00:53:40.240 --> 00:53:44.210
Sounds great.
00:53:44.210 --> 00:53:45.412
Talk to henry cloud, doctor sharon may, doctor harold
00:53:45.412 --> 00:53:47.647
Duncan, thank you all so much.
00:53:47.647 --> 00:53:49.082
And for those of you at home, let me just read you
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This verse from psalm 34.
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It's one of my favorites.
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Psalm 34 verse 18 says this...
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But before that, david writes this...
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Just know that you are loved.
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Take the first step.
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Take the first step and see how
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God will join you on that journey.
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We love you.
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On behalf of us all here at tbn,
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God bless and we'll see you next time.
00:54:22.415 --> 00:54:22.415

Henry Cloud, Sharon May, & Harold Duncan: The Church and Mental Health | Praise

August 11, 2025 | 56:12

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