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John Stonestreet & Jim Daily: The Cost of Living with Conviction | Praise

September 4, 2025 | 58:5

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Praise | John Stonestreet & Jim Daily: The Cost of Living with Conviction | Praise | September 4, 2025

Coming up tonight on praise...
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How much larger this was than me and my cake shop did
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This case represented every american because free speech is
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For everyone.
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And i realized that what god has called us to do is so much
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Larger than what i initially thought.
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What an incredible moment in history this is.
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How can we be the courageous christians that god has called
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Us to be in such an incredible, weighty moment in our history?
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The hope here is that people will deepen their faith in
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Christ, know the word, and then apply it, even if it
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Costs you your life.
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Yeah, it feels like the lord is on the move.
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Tonight. on praise from los angeles,
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Anointed faith leaders john stonestreet and jim daly.
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And now your host, sheila walsh.
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Welcome. i'm so glad you're joining me.
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And i just want to ask you guys, have you ever been
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Announced that way before,
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Anointed faith leaders?
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I think it happens to jim all the time.
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No, that's new for me. no, no loving husband.
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That's what we want to go down for.
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That's a lovely legacy.
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Jim daly, of course.
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Focus on the family.
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John stonestreet from colson center.
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Um, you're here to talk to us
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About this incredible documentary.
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Is it a film or is it a documentary?
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It's a documentary.
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It's about an hour and a half.
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Yeah, yeah. i've watched it
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Twice, and i absolutely loved it.
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And you're going to get to see it on friday.
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We're going to show it here on tbn.
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Make sure you tune in.
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It's phenomenal.
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One of my favorite things was it starts off with someone that
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I have a great affection for.
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Um, oz guinness.
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How did he come to be involved in this project?
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Well, it's odd, you kind of sound similar, you and oz, but
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No, oz, we thought oz would be an outstanding scholar,
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Of course, and christian and social critic.
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And he's at the top of his game.
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I think he's, how old is oz?
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80. 81.
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So, i mean, he's been around the world a long time, and he
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Sets it up beautifully to talk about western civilization, the
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The embrace of judeo-christian values, what it did for western
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Civilization, and the fact that we cannot move away from it.
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If we do, it's to our own peril.
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And i think oz is one of the guys that's as close to a
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Gandalf of our generation as that can be.
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And part of what he brings to the film is something that i
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Think is an essential element for christians to understand.
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And he calls it the awa
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Because he has that great accent.
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Right? but what he means is that we're not just in this
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Cultural moment by accident, that god intentionally put us
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In this time and place
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As paul told the epicurean and
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Stoic philosophers on mars hill.
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Uh, in other words, we think about our calling as
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Christians, and we think about maybe being called to the
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Ministry or being called to good works and all
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That stuff is true.
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But we don't oftentimes think about being called to a
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Particular time and place.
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And the first part of the film really sets up what an
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Incredible moment in history this is.
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It's very vulnerable.
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Civilizations come and go.
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Western civilization has kind of outlived its shelf date for
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A while now, particularly because it disconnected and
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Untethered from truth.
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And there's going to be real consequences.
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There's always incredible consequences, both for
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Individual lives but also for entire civilizations.
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So here we are.
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If that's the reality of our
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Moment, how then should we live?
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How can we be the courageous christians that god has called
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Us to be in such an incredible, weighty moment in our history?
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Wow. jim, what would you say to somebody who's watching,
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Thinking, well, you know what?
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I am not courageous.
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I'm just trying to do my best here.
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I'm trying to keep a low profile.
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What would you say to somebody who feels like they just don't--
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They wouldn't even know how to
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Start feeling like a courageous christian?
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Yeah, and it's not something
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You have to learn out of a textbook.
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I think we're all courageous in different ways.
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I hear from moms all day at focus on the family that are
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Doing courageous things.
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So i think we can overcomplicate it.
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Much like parenting, we tend to find want to find perfection.
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And it's really love your child and listen to your child and do
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What almost comes from a godly, natural perspective.
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And you're going to be a good parent.
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I think a lot of this is similar.
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You know, just be ready, be faithful, be courageous.
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And these stories that we share, whether it's chloe cole,
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The detransitioners who at 12,13 decided she was not a girl, but
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A boy with a lot of pressure from social media and doctors
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And psychiatrists that were saying, this is what
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You need to do.
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She had no negative pushback from any physician, and she
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Began that process.
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Double mastectomy just went on hormones.
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Yeah. and then by the time
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She was 17, she said i had made a mistake.
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And what a tragedy.
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And here's the culture pushing these kids in that direction at
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An age they can't bear.
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And that's just one story.
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Jack phillips, the baker, you know.
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We're going to talk about him today.
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Courageously and actually attempted to just say, as a
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Artist, i can't bake a cake for a gay marriage.
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People pummeled him, and yet he quietly, in his rightful way,
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His dignified, christlike way, said, i just i'm sorry.
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I just can't do that.
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And there's other stories that are like those.
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Just give us a little highlight of the other story, because
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There's one, a very moving story about a girl who was
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Going to be put into an arranged marriage, and she did
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Not want that and ran basically from it.
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Well, ayaan hirsi ali has been
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One of the world's great leaders.
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I mean, having come out of just a very dangerous, uh, culture
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Dominated by radical islam
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Going to the west, embracing atheism.
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And now in just the last few years, having spoken out
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Against radical islam.
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Now realizing that the truth isn't in secularism, the truth
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Is found in jesus christ, and
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She believes that on two levels.
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That's what makes her story so remarkable that it's
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The hope for western culture is to re-embrace the christian
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Roots and the fundamental ideas of moral truth and the image of
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God and the other things that really gave life and vitality
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To the western world.
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But it's also the truth about her own life, her own search
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For meaning, her own need for forgiveness.
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It's a wonderful story.
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And then, of course, the story of seth dillon and the babylon
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Bee, which is the funny one.
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We can all laugh at that one.
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I mean, what a remarkable
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Moment in the middle of cancel culture.
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Remember that three, four or five years ago where you say
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The wrong thing and you get canceled?
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That happened to them, but they refused to back down.
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And now we're on the other end of that moment, seeing how many
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Things came to fruition, uh,
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Because they made that decision.
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And it's-- that's really an incredible story.
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And then a good friend of mine, uh, her story is told in the
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Film as well, katie foust. yes.
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Katie was a pastor's wife, just writing a blog anonymously
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Because, as she said, she was a chicken.
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That's what she says.
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I don't think that's true, but that's what she says.
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But she was outed by an activist who did not like the
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Things that she was putting out there, and that action in which
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She was really threatened and her community was threatened,
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Has led her to a life of obedience, saying, i'm
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Doubling down on this.
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And she has become one of the most important child advocates
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In the world, uh, defending the innocence and well-being and
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Protection of children against radical technologies and
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Radical social innovations.
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So these are all courageous folks.
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But, you know, to your point, earlier, they didn't set out
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To be courageous.
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No, they probably didn't have plans to to go on any kind of a
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National stage.
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Uh, but that's not the decision we make.
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We don't make a decision to be famous.
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We make a decision to do the right next thing.
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That's what i love about her story.
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I love that because-- and then when
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She realizes the implications for her church community goes
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And says, listen, guys, i'm really sorry.
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I can stop doing this,
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And they're like, no, you know, god called you to do this.
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You keep going.
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But i want to talk about jack
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Because honestly, when i first heard just a little paragraph
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About the story, i wasn't sure how i would feel about that,
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About a baker saying, well, no, i'm not going to bake you a
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Cake because you're a gay couple.
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And then i watched the documentary.
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That's why you have to watch this documentary, truth rising.
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It's phenomenal.
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It shifted my heart.
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Jack phillips is a man of family and faith.
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He served his community for years as a cake artist and
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Small business owner.
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But in 2012, on a beautiful,
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Sunny colorado day, everything changed.
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And that's when jack chose to take a courageous stand.
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Two men came in and and i sat down with them and asked them,
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You know, my name is jack.
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How can i help you?
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They said, we're here to look for wedding cakes.
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The other one said, it's for our wedding.
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And so i knew what my answer was going to be.
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I just didn't know how to phrase it or how
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They would take it.
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I told them, i'll make you birthday cakes, shower cakes,
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Sell you cookies and brownies.
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I just don't do cakes for same-sex weddings,
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Meaning that i'm glad to serve you, but i can't create the
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Cake that you're asking for.
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You can have anything in my shop.
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You're welcome here.
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I can't create that cake
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Because of the message it expresses.
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The gentleman on my right jumps up, flips me off, starts
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Swearing at me, and storms out of the shop.
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The other one got up and left
00:10:01.880 --> 00:10:02.914
As well and i thought, that's crazy.
00:10:02.914 --> 00:10:07.085
Nobody's ever or sworn at me like that before.
00:10:07.085 --> 00:10:11.356
They eventually filed a lawsuit
00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:13.992
Against me with the state of colorado.
00:10:13.992 --> 00:10:15.694
So everything turned on that conversation.
00:10:15.694 --> 00:10:19.664
This was thursday afternoon that they came in about 4:30.
00:10:20.832 --> 00:10:24.936
And by the time we closed at six, i probably already had a
00:10:24.936 --> 00:10:28.473
Half a dozen hateful phone calls, death threats, just all
00:10:28.473 --> 00:10:32.844
Kinds of horrible things that a gentleman called me and say,
00:10:32.844 --> 00:10:37.082
You know, i'm coming to your shop, i've got a gun, and i'm
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Going to blow your head off.
00:10:39.751 --> 00:10:42.353
And then a bible verse came to me, second timothy 1:7
00:10:43.421 --> 00:10:46.591
That says, god has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power
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And of love and of a sound mind, and a sound mind part
00:10:49.294 --> 00:10:52.063
Is what struck me.
00:10:52.063 --> 00:10:53.164
It's like, this isn't my fight, this is his.
00:10:53.164 --> 00:10:56.968
And from that moment until today, i'm still at peace with
00:10:56.968 --> 00:11:00.572
Everything that's gone on.
00:11:00.572 --> 00:11:01.740
But i was surprised at how quickly things blew up.
00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:11.750
I had different people telling me that, you know, this is a
00:11:12.917 --> 00:11:16.554
Case that will go to the us supreme court.
00:11:16.554 --> 00:11:18.656
Like seriously, to the us supreme court?
00:11:18.656 --> 00:11:21.826
Doesn't the constitution protect my right to live
00:11:22.761 --> 00:11:25.430
According to my freedom to freely exercise my faith?
00:11:25.430 --> 00:11:28.099
But eventually we did get to the us supreme court.
00:11:29.134 --> 00:11:35.073
The day that i heard that the court was going to hear my
00:11:36.207 --> 00:11:38.476
Case, i was here in the shop and i was on my computer, and
00:11:38.476 --> 00:11:42.046
There was a website that i
00:11:42.046 --> 00:11:43.214
Become familiar with called scotusblog.
00:11:43.214 --> 00:11:45.116
And so i'm looking at the screen, waiting and waiting,
00:11:45.116 --> 00:11:48.486
And suddenly i see five words on there and say, masterpiece
00:11:48.486 --> 00:11:52.290
Cake shop has been granted-- [voice breaks]
00:11:52.290 --> 00:11:56.394
Six years later, it still gets me.
00:11:57.162 --> 00:11:58.797
That chokes me up.
00:11:58.797 --> 00:12:00.031
That day i couldn't talk to anybody.
00:12:00.031 --> 00:12:01.533
I couldn't call anybody and say, hey, guess what?
00:12:01.533 --> 00:12:03.635
The supreme court's is hearing our case.
00:12:03.635 --> 00:12:06.171
And finally got my voice back where i could talk.
00:12:06.171 --> 00:12:08.807
And the only one that i could tell that was here was a
00:12:08.807 --> 00:12:11.543
Homeless guy who comes in occasionally.
00:12:11.543 --> 00:12:13.545
So i told him,
00:12:13.912 --> 00:12:15.814
I get to go to the supreme court.
00:12:16.548 --> 00:12:20.418
One of my attorneys told me the worst that could happen is that
00:12:21.619 --> 00:12:25.557
They grant your case and you lose.
00:12:25.557 --> 00:12:28.626
And i think it was at that point that i realized how much
00:12:29.761 --> 00:12:32.664
Larger this was than me and my cake shop did.
00:12:32.664 --> 00:12:35.834
This case represented every american because free speech
00:12:35.834 --> 00:12:40.271
Is for everyone.
00:12:40.271 --> 00:12:41.840
And if i lose my rights, if they can take away my rights,
00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.576
They can take away from anybody and everybody.
00:12:44.576 --> 00:12:47.779
And i realize that what god has called us to do is so much
00:12:47.779 --> 00:12:50.782
Larger than what i initially thought.
00:12:50.782 --> 00:13:01.192
We didn't know what day the decision would be released.
00:13:02.327 --> 00:13:05.897
You never know on any given case.
00:13:05.897 --> 00:13:10.668
My sister had called me and
00:13:11.269 --> 00:13:12.370
Asked if i was following scotusblog.
00:13:12.370 --> 00:13:14.706
Well, not really because i'm
00:13:14.706 --> 00:13:16.107
Not expecting a decision for a while.
00:13:16.107 --> 00:13:18.076
But then i turned on scotusblog and suddenly we have our
00:13:18.076 --> 00:13:21.713
Decision announced on scotusblog that we had won
00:13:21.713 --> 00:13:25.350
And the decision was 7 to 2.
00:13:25.350 --> 00:13:30.521
I found out by myself in the shop.
00:13:31.289 --> 00:13:33.925
And so i'm texting people and then as i'm able to collect
00:13:33.925 --> 00:13:37.896
Myself, people are coming in one at a time, two at a time.
00:13:37.896 --> 00:13:40.765
They're driving by the shop,
00:13:40.765 --> 00:13:42.033
They're honking, they're cheering.
00:13:42.033 --> 00:13:44.836
It was a really fun day. so--
00:13:45.470 --> 00:13:53.177
The day-to-day basis around
00:13:53.778 --> 00:13:55.046
Here, we never know what to expect.
00:13:55.046 --> 00:13:57.282
But we do know that god expects us and empowers us to be
00:13:57.282 --> 00:14:01.152
Faithful to him.
00:14:01.152 --> 00:14:02.453
So that's what we want to do, no matter who comes in the door
00:14:02.453 --> 00:14:04.689
Or who calls us on the phone,
00:14:04.689 --> 00:14:06.324
What kind of cake they order,
00:14:06.324 --> 00:14:07.892
Or how they want to treat us or whatever,
00:14:07.892 --> 00:14:10.361
We want to be faithful and gracious and show god's love.
00:14:10.361 --> 00:14:13.631
You have to stand by your faith, and god is fully capable
00:14:13.631 --> 00:14:17.802
Of taking responsibility for my obedience.
00:14:17.802 --> 00:14:21.339
Before all this legal stuff started, i can tell you i was
00:14:22.507 --> 00:14:25.977
Sleepwalking through my faith.
00:14:25.977 --> 00:14:27.779
This has given me the impetus or the courage to share my
00:14:28.913 --> 00:14:32.617
Faith, because it's good news
00:14:32.617 --> 00:14:34.552
And people want good news these days.
00:14:34.552 --> 00:14:36.287
And that good news is the love that god showed us through
00:14:36.287 --> 00:14:38.756
His son, christ.
00:14:38.756 --> 00:14:40.491
Um, talk to us about jack because he's,
00:14:40.491 --> 00:14:43.661
He doesn't look like a courageous man.
00:14:43.661 --> 00:14:45.663
Doesn't look like a gladiator, does he really?
00:14:45.663 --> 00:14:47.732
And to your point, he didn't set out that day to make
00:14:47.732 --> 00:14:50.134
History, to go to the supreme court and win a religious
00:14:50.134 --> 00:14:52.670
Liberty battle.
00:14:52.670 --> 00:14:54.205
But what i love about jack and he's friends with both john and
00:14:54.205 --> 00:14:57.275
I, and he's a terrific person to have in the state of
00:14:57.275 --> 00:15:00.211
Colorado, which we both come from.
00:15:00.211 --> 00:15:02.313
And i think, jack, uh, he simply said this to the lord
00:15:02.313 --> 00:15:06.250
When he started his baking business,
00:15:06.250 --> 00:15:08.519
I want to honor you, lord.
00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:09.821
So i'll never do anything that goes against your word when it
00:15:09.821 --> 00:15:12.423
Comes to my creative expertise, the gift you've given me.
00:15:12.423 --> 00:15:16.995
So it's not only, uh,
00:15:16.995 --> 00:15:18.830
Marriage or wedding cake for a gay couple that he would not
00:15:19.998 --> 00:15:22.633
Do, but it was also halloween
00:15:22.633 --> 00:15:24.469
Or anything dark he wouldn't do.
00:15:24.469 --> 00:15:26.537
He was being faithful to what he saw as his call.
00:15:26.537 --> 00:15:29.974
He did it with great dignity.
00:15:29.974 --> 00:15:32.110
He said i would sell anybody,
00:15:32.110 --> 00:15:34.645
Gay or straight, anything in my shop.
00:15:34.645 --> 00:15:36.914
I just can't sell them a wedding cake because that goes
00:15:36.914 --> 00:15:39.250
Directly against my understanding of scripture.
00:15:39.250 --> 00:15:43.021
But even with that gentle touch, he was set up not just
00:15:43.021 --> 00:15:46.491
Once, but he's been set up how many times now set up by those
00:15:46.491 --> 00:15:50.628
Who are advocates for those things, coming into the shop
00:15:50.628 --> 00:15:53.197
And targeting him.
00:15:53.197 --> 00:15:55.033
So i think it's his fifth if lawsuit over these last
00:15:55.033 --> 00:15:58.036
13 years where one gay couple after another. transgendered
00:15:58.036 --> 00:16:02.407
Person came in. same kind of situation. they just keep
00:16:02.407 --> 00:16:06.144
Coming back to him to make an example out of him.
00:16:06.144 --> 00:16:10.348
And it's his story about how to remain faithful to the lord.
00:16:10.348 --> 00:16:14.252
Kind in spirit.
00:16:14.252 --> 00:16:15.887
Yeah. this man is a kind man.
00:16:15.887 --> 00:16:17.855
And you may say, well, just bake the cake.
00:16:17.855 --> 00:16:20.358
But that is the point.
00:16:20.358 --> 00:16:21.893
Should we be forced to do
00:16:21.893 --> 00:16:23.161
Something against our religious convictions?
00:16:23.161 --> 00:16:26.230
And the answer is no.
00:16:26.731 --> 00:16:28.332
That i thought was compelling with jack's story was so often
00:16:28.332 --> 00:16:31.903
We think of being in christian ministry as being a pastor or
00:16:31.903 --> 00:16:34.539
Being a speaker.
00:16:34.539 --> 00:16:35.907
But his thing was, no, god has called me to be a baker.
00:16:35.907 --> 00:16:38.743
And so who i am on the inside
00:16:38.743 --> 00:16:40.711
Will come through everything i do.
00:16:40.711 --> 00:16:42.914
Exactly.
00:16:42.914 --> 00:16:43.748
It's even in the name of his shop.
00:16:43.748 --> 00:16:44.816
It's masterpiece cakeshop. oh, it is?
00:16:44.816 --> 00:16:46.984
That's the name of his-- and if you're ever in denver,
00:16:46.984 --> 00:16:49.120
Stop by because it's really good.
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.888
Yeah, he's really, really good.
00:16:50.888 --> 00:16:52.190
Very good.
00:16:52.190 --> 00:16:53.024
And his cakes are custom designed.
00:16:53.024 --> 00:16:55.026
So in his case, it was also being forced to say something
00:16:55.026 --> 00:16:59.263
That he didn't believe in terms of how you decorate the cake
00:16:59.263 --> 00:17:03.067
And use those custom designs.
00:17:03.067 --> 00:17:04.969
But jim's right.
00:17:04.969 --> 00:17:07.205
This ended up being a decades long, a decade long and beyond
00:17:07.205 --> 00:17:13.144
Ordeal where not only did a couple express great
00:17:13.144 --> 00:17:19.617
Displeasure and try to do a lot, but the state of colorado--
00:17:19.617 --> 00:17:22.253
I know that blew me away.
00:17:22.253 --> 00:17:24.255
When you add the government power there, the force, the
00:17:24.255 --> 00:17:28.659
Government entity, and then the government got out of the way
00:17:28.659 --> 00:17:32.630
And then allowed a private citizen to just--
00:17:32.630 --> 00:17:34.265
And there was death threats and there
00:17:34.265 --> 00:17:35.633
Was social pressure and all of that.
00:17:35.633 --> 00:17:37.635
Here's the best part of the story for me, having watched
00:17:37.635 --> 00:17:40.505
This unfold in our own state and with this wonderful man,
00:17:40.505 --> 00:17:45.476
Jack would not go back today and change a thing.
00:17:45.476 --> 00:17:49.113
And you see how god has worked in his heart, the heart of his
00:17:49.113 --> 00:17:52.116
Family and the number of people who have come to christ because
00:17:52.116 --> 00:17:57.488
Of his example, or have been pushed towards christ.
00:17:57.488 --> 00:18:00.791
For example, ayaan hirsi ali, is this one of the stories of
00:18:00.791 --> 00:18:05.496
Courage that we tell in the documentary.
00:18:05.496 --> 00:18:08.032
A dutch parliamentarian whose campaign against radical islam,
00:18:08.032 --> 00:18:13.070
Uh, you know, brings her under great threat.
00:18:13.070 --> 00:18:15.973
And the end she comes to christ
00:18:15.973 --> 00:18:17.608
And she's one of the voices of courage.
00:18:17.608 --> 00:18:19.510
One of the things she points to as pointing her to christ is
00:18:19.510 --> 00:18:24.081
The testimony of the baker.
00:18:24.081 --> 00:18:25.616
That's what she says. oh my gosh.
00:18:25.616 --> 00:18:27.318
There was a connection which we didn't even know going into the
00:18:27.318 --> 00:18:29.687
Project, that there was a connection between these
00:18:29.687 --> 00:18:32.256
Two incredible stories.
00:18:32.256 --> 00:18:34.792
And when you talk to jack about what god has done to use that
00:18:34.792 --> 00:18:39.230
In people's lives like diane or other people who have come
00:18:39.230 --> 00:18:41.899
To christ, you'll see tears come to his eyes.
00:18:41.899 --> 00:18:44.068
He wants people to know the lord, and he did it with an act
00:18:44.068 --> 00:18:48.072
Of courage, and god took it beyond his wildest dreams.
00:18:48.072 --> 00:18:52.009
None of this occurred to me 12 years ago.
00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:54.045
This ripple effect reminds me of, um, a few weeks ago, i was
00:18:54.045 --> 00:18:58.482
Baking some chocolate cake and i took it out of the oven,
00:18:58.482 --> 00:19:01.485
Opened the oven to pull it out, and it had collapsed
00:19:01.485 --> 00:19:04.188
And it never collapses.
00:19:04.188 --> 00:19:05.489
And it's like, there's something wrong with this.
00:19:05.489 --> 00:19:07.592
What do i do? i couldn't figure out what
00:19:07.592 --> 00:19:09.327
I had done wrong, mixing the batter,
00:19:09.327 --> 00:19:11.395
But it was late and i needed it the next day.
00:19:12.330 --> 00:19:14.298
So i made another batch and i pulled it out.
00:19:14.298 --> 00:19:16.367
Same thing.
00:19:16.701 --> 00:19:17.568
Like this is just unusual.
00:19:17.568 --> 00:19:19.503
Well, i had to work with the formula and it came down to
00:19:19.503 --> 00:19:22.240
What i think is i had just gotten a new bag of cocoa
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.309
Powder, 50 pound bag of cocoa
00:19:25.309 --> 00:19:26.944
Powder, same brand, same everything.
00:19:26.944 --> 00:19:29.780
That was the only change.
00:19:29.780 --> 00:19:31.315
So i went, got some cocoa powder, tried it and it worked.
00:19:31.315 --> 00:19:34.952
Okay, so now i need to adjust my formula to fix this.
00:19:34.952 --> 00:19:38.456
And what i did ultimately was in a 35 pound batch of cocoa
00:19:38.456 --> 00:19:43.894
Powder of chocolate cake.
00:19:43.894 --> 00:19:45.496
I added 20g of baking powder.
00:19:45.496 --> 00:19:48.899
Hardly anything in a big bucket.
00:19:48.899 --> 00:19:51.168
It's like a teaspoon or tablespoon.
00:19:51.168 --> 00:19:53.304
But that's what it took.
00:19:53.804 --> 00:19:55.606
But that made me think of my conversation with the two men
00:19:55.606 --> 00:19:59.277
At the very beginning 12 years ago.
00:19:59.277 --> 00:20:01.345
20s long, 20g of baking powder.
00:20:01.345 --> 00:20:05.483
God uses little tiny things to do what he wants to do, and
00:20:05.483 --> 00:20:09.553
It's had a ripple effect.
00:20:09.553 --> 00:20:11.355
I've had a nephew who came to faith in christ because of
00:20:11.355 --> 00:20:14.558
Hearing my story.
00:20:14.558 --> 00:20:15.826
I've heard other people similar stories or taking a stand at
00:20:15.826 --> 00:20:19.563
Their work, changing jobs, changing careers to go into law
00:20:19.563 --> 00:20:25.069
Or to do other things where they now want to defend the
00:20:25.069 --> 00:20:28.306
Rights of people like me in their community.
00:20:28.306 --> 00:20:31.309
And it's just had such an impact. besides
00:20:31.309 --> 00:20:35.012
Hearing ayann's testimony that god has used this in ways that
00:20:36.213 --> 00:20:42.687
The ripple effect did you know people talk about could be a
00:20:42.687 --> 00:20:46.157
Tsunami at the end.
00:20:46.157 --> 00:20:47.291
It could be just affecting so
00:20:47.291 --> 00:20:49.293
Many people, and i'm so grateful
00:20:49.293 --> 00:20:52.897
That he's used us in this small way
00:20:53.698 --> 00:20:56.467
To accomplish what he wants to do.
00:20:57.234 --> 00:20:59.503
My spiritual life, i guess, grew because of this.
00:21:00.538 --> 00:21:04.909
Jesus tells a parable about ten virgins who are getting ready
00:21:04.909 --> 00:21:09.380
For a wedding party. when the call comes that the
00:21:09.380 --> 00:21:12.116
Bridegroom is on the way,
00:21:12.116 --> 00:21:13.884
Five of them get up and they're ready to go.
00:21:13.884 --> 00:21:16.654
Five of them don't have oil for their lamps.
00:21:16.654 --> 00:21:19.123
For me, that's a powerful story, but it also points to
00:21:20.191 --> 00:21:23.561
The fact that all ten of them were asleep
00:21:23.561 --> 00:21:26.397
Before all this legal stuff started.
00:21:27.198 --> 00:21:29.734
I can tell you, i was sleep walking through my faith.
00:21:29.734 --> 00:21:33.037
This has given me the impetus
00:21:33.671 --> 00:21:35.840
Or the courage to share my faith
00:21:35.840 --> 00:21:38.542
Way more frequently than i ever would have before.
00:21:39.577 --> 00:21:42.046
And i've tried to practice how to share my faith in a way that
00:21:42.046 --> 00:21:46.650
Will reach whoever i'm talking to at the time, because it's
00:21:46.650 --> 00:21:49.854
Good news and people want good news these days.
00:21:49.854 --> 00:21:52.423
People don't want to be living
00:21:52.423 --> 00:21:53.858
In the world that we're living in
00:21:53.858 --> 00:21:55.393
That's always telling them everything's going wrong.
00:21:55.393 --> 00:21:57.862
They want good news.
00:21:57.862 --> 00:21:59.163
And that good news is the love that jesus, that god showed us
00:21:59.163 --> 00:22:01.365
Through his son, christ.
00:22:01.365 --> 00:22:03.100
And so we were sleepwalking.
00:22:03.100 --> 00:22:06.537
This case, all this legal stuff woke us up.
00:22:06.537 --> 00:22:10.608
I can tell you that my daughter was saying that if she would
00:22:10.608 --> 00:22:14.979
Have waited on the two men when they came in, it would have
00:22:14.979 --> 00:22:18.549
Been her job. i would have been in the back.
00:22:18.549 --> 00:22:20.451
But they were both, the two girls i had busy working that
00:22:20.451 --> 00:22:23.254
Day were busy doing other things, so it fell to me to
00:22:23.254 --> 00:22:25.556
Come out and help these two men.
00:22:25.556 --> 00:22:28.259
She told me that she would have given them the same answer,
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:31.395
But that's because it's dad's cake shop.
00:22:32.263 --> 00:22:35.766
What do i believe?
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:37.835
And so she started having to study and see what god's word,
00:22:37.835 --> 00:22:41.839
The bible, has to say about these things and came to much
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.376
Stronger convictions and has led bible studies and has
00:22:45.376 --> 00:22:49.580
Had an incredible impact on some of her friends.
00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:53.083
One of her friends
00:22:53.517 --> 00:22:55.586
Found herself with an unwanted pregnancy, was going to go to
00:22:55.586 --> 00:22:59.590
Planned parenthood and take care of it.
00:22:59.590 --> 00:23:02.960
And she said, no, you can't do that.
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.363
Got her to, uh, an alternatives pregnancy center where they
00:23:06.363 --> 00:23:10.267
Took care of her, helped her out, and now she has a little
00:23:10.267 --> 00:23:13.504
Girl who's like, 8 or 9 years old.
00:23:13.504 --> 00:23:16.373
My daughter's testimony helped save that,
00:23:16.373 --> 00:23:19.210
That baby's life.
00:23:19.643 --> 00:23:21.712
Another part of a ripple.
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:24.181
When i watched his story, um, in the documentary truth
00:23:24.181 --> 00:23:27.818
Rising, the thing, the word that came away from me at the
00:23:27.818 --> 00:23:30.554
End was faithful.
00:23:30.554 --> 00:23:31.689
He was just faithful.
00:23:32.189 --> 00:23:33.924
And so often we think, if i'm faithful to god, then i'll get
00:23:33.924 --> 00:23:36.126
A good answer straight away.
00:23:36.126 --> 00:23:37.661
But as you say, it took years.
00:23:37.661 --> 00:23:39.196
It took years.
00:23:39.196 --> 00:23:40.664
He simply did the right thing
00:23:40.664 --> 00:23:42.733
And left the consequences to god.
00:23:42.733 --> 00:23:44.568
I think that's quite a challenge in the days we're
00:23:44.568 --> 00:23:46.370
Living in to do that, that we're called to do, that, we're
00:23:46.370 --> 00:23:49.139
Called to be faithful, not necessarily to understand what
00:23:49.139 --> 00:23:52.943
The outcome is going to be. so true.
00:23:52.943 --> 00:23:54.945
And in the case of seth dillon with babylon b, that answer
00:23:54.945 --> 00:23:58.849
Came quickly.
00:23:58.849 --> 00:23:59.984
When you look at it comparatively, i mean, he was
00:23:59.984 --> 00:24:02.453
He was put in twitter jail and de-platformed.
00:24:02.453 --> 00:24:05.990
And then elon musk reached out to him to say, what happened?
00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:09.894
And then in that conversation, elon says, well, maybe i should
00:24:09.894 --> 00:24:13.163
Just buy it, meaning twitter.
00:24:13.163 --> 00:24:15.499
Now, how many people have a friend that can just buy it
00:24:15.499 --> 00:24:18.002
For $50 billion?
00:24:18.002 --> 00:24:19.904
But, you know, within a couple of months that deal was done.
00:24:19.904 --> 00:24:22.873
And elon calls him back and says, hey, you want back on?
00:24:22.873 --> 00:24:25.876
I get a call from a number we don't know.
00:24:25.876 --> 00:24:28.646
And elon musk, he dug up our number and called and wanted to
00:24:28.646 --> 00:24:33.183
Talk to us about this situation.
00:24:33.183 --> 00:24:34.451
He's like, i heard that you were suspended.
00:24:34.451 --> 00:24:36.654
Why not just delete it to get your account back?
00:24:36.654 --> 00:24:38.656
What's the big deal?
00:24:38.656 --> 00:24:39.523
What's the harm in that.
00:24:39.523 --> 00:24:40.658
And and we explained our rationale there that it's a
00:24:40.658 --> 00:24:44.128
Principle thing, you know, like we have to be willing to stand
00:24:44.128 --> 00:24:46.730
By this and say we should have the right to tell jokes,
00:24:46.730 --> 00:24:50.134
Especially jokes that are that carry the truth in them.
00:24:50.134 --> 00:24:53.270
That should be something that we're allowed to do in the
00:24:53.270 --> 00:24:55.105
Public square.
00:24:55.105 --> 00:24:56.407
And if we're not allowed to do it here, that's a problem that
00:24:56.407 --> 00:24:58.576
Needs to be dealt with.
00:24:58.576 --> 00:24:59.777
And he agreed with that wholeheartedly.
00:24:59.777 --> 00:25:01.245
At the end of the conversation, he closed it out,
00:25:01.245 --> 00:25:02.780
He goes, i might just need to buy twitter.
00:25:02.780 --> 00:25:07.051
From his perspective, comedy should be legal.
00:25:07.985 --> 00:25:10.421
You should be allowed to tell jokes in the public square.
00:25:10.421 --> 00:25:13.357
It's hard to get your hopes up that something like that might
00:25:13.357 --> 00:25:15.793
Happen that the world's richest man might end up bailing you
00:25:15.793 --> 00:25:18.262
Out of twitter jail.
00:25:18.262 --> 00:25:19.463
Finally, he closes the deal.
00:25:19.463 --> 00:25:21.098
And then, uh, his first day as ceo, literally day one,
00:25:21.098 --> 00:25:25.970
He sends me a dm at 4 a.m.
00:25:26.537 --> 00:25:29.440
That said, do you want the babylon be restored?
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.742
There will be no censorship of humor.
00:25:31.742 --> 00:25:33.510
And so the point of that,
00:25:34.078 --> 00:25:35.446
Whether it's relatively immediate
00:25:35.446 --> 00:25:39.483
Or what if it takes a lifetime and you don't hear, our position
00:25:39.483 --> 00:25:43.554
As christians should be to continue to have faithfulness
00:25:43.554 --> 00:25:47.391
In christ, whether it's a week or a hundred years.
00:25:47.391 --> 00:25:51.562
It's i feel like i'm kind of in the middle of a kind of a
00:25:51.562 --> 00:25:54.531
Spiritual wake up call in my own life, because i have loved
00:25:54.531 --> 00:25:57.501
And walked with the lord for many, many years and had the
00:25:57.501 --> 00:25:59.637
Privilege of being involved in ministry.
00:25:59.637 --> 00:26:01.605
But i feel like in these recent days, the lord's kind of given
00:26:01.605 --> 00:26:05.843
Me a wake up call as to, you know, do you really believe?
00:26:05.843 --> 00:26:09.480
I mean, you know, this is the living word of god.
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:11.882
Do you believe every word of this?
00:26:11.882 --> 00:26:13.684
And if you do-- i mean, i think of i've been studying the
00:26:13.684 --> 00:26:17.254
Sermon on the mount.
00:26:17.254 --> 00:26:18.522
Um, just listen to this verse.
00:26:18.522 --> 00:26:20.758
This is matthew 5:13. [reading]
00:26:20.758 --> 00:26:33.637
I think there's something about
00:26:34.271 --> 00:26:36.907
These days, that god is stirring something.
00:26:36.907 --> 00:26:39.443
And i think your documentary is part of that,
00:26:39.443 --> 00:26:42.746
Of that we stand up and simply
00:26:42.746 --> 00:26:46.383
Say who we are and whose we are. so true.
00:26:46.383 --> 00:26:48.552
We don't want to do this just as a documentary, because
00:26:48.552 --> 00:26:51.555
You can see those all day long on netflix.
00:26:51.555 --> 00:26:53.924
What we're aiming for is to ignite a movement and to--
00:26:53.924 --> 00:26:57.561
I think what you're sensing is the same thing i'm sensing is
00:26:57.561 --> 00:27:00.664
Probably what you're sensing,
00:27:00.664 --> 00:27:01.598
John, what listeners are sensing.
00:27:01.598 --> 00:27:03.934
And that is it feels like the lord is on the move.
00:27:03.934 --> 00:27:07.471
Yeah. like the, um,
00:27:07.471 --> 00:27:10.708
The things that have been tried by those that don't know the
00:27:10.708 --> 00:27:13.310
Lord are not working.
00:27:13.310 --> 00:27:14.712
In fact, in the film, i believe it was john anderson from
00:27:14.712 --> 00:27:17.514
Australia, one of the former, uh, pm's, he said the engines of
00:27:17.514 --> 00:27:22.252
Democracy work. we're putting the wrong fuel into them.
00:27:22.252 --> 00:27:26.623
Wow. what a profound analogy.
00:27:26.623 --> 00:27:29.093
He said, it's like my diesel truck.
00:27:29.093 --> 00:27:30.527
When i put regular gas in it, it stopped running. when i put
00:27:30.527 --> 00:27:33.997
The diesel back in, it started running again.
00:27:33.997 --> 00:27:36.333
And you know, democracies need things like laws based on truth
00:27:36.333 --> 00:27:40.904
And righteousness.
00:27:40.904 --> 00:27:42.206
You know, the lord gives one command for government,
00:27:42.206 --> 00:27:45.175
One of the institutions he decreed,
00:27:45.175 --> 00:27:47.177
Right. and he says the number one role of government is to
00:27:47.177 --> 00:27:52.282
Restrain evil, not to unleash it.
00:27:52.282 --> 00:27:56.487
And this is the contradiction that we're in today.
00:27:56.487 --> 00:27:59.556
But the answer is what you just read.
00:27:59.556 --> 00:28:02.693
I remember chuck colson saying this over and over and over,
00:28:02.693 --> 00:28:05.129
That the most important thing the world needed right now is
00:28:05.129 --> 00:28:07.231
For the church to be the church.
00:28:07.231 --> 00:28:08.766
Yeah. and sometimes we spend an awful lot of time talking about
00:28:08.766 --> 00:28:11.401
How the world is the world.
00:28:11.401 --> 00:28:12.970
That's what the world's going to do.
00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:14.371
Yeah. um, and the question is, is are we living into our
00:28:14.371 --> 00:28:19.243
Calling into this moment right now?
00:28:19.243 --> 00:28:21.345
Are we the salt, or have we lost our saltiness?
00:28:21.345 --> 00:28:23.847
Are we the light that's on the hill?
00:28:23.847 --> 00:28:25.949
Or are we trying to hide what is, uh, what is true because of
00:28:25.949 --> 00:28:29.720
The social pressure or the cost.
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:32.256
The stories tell us that you can be courageous and that god
00:28:32.256 --> 00:28:36.226
Is still at work, and the overall documentary puts that
00:28:36.226 --> 00:28:40.731
Courage in the context of a remarkable moment in human
00:28:40.731 --> 00:28:44.635
History that we're in.
00:28:44.635 --> 00:28:46.003
What an opportunity the church has right now.
00:28:46.003 --> 00:28:49.273
I hope you hear that in your own heart.
00:28:49.273 --> 00:28:50.908
And that's why we're doing this week, why we feel this
00:28:50.908 --> 00:28:53.644
Documentary is, is so important that it's not an accident that
00:28:53.644 --> 00:28:58.081
You're watching this program tonight.
00:28:58.081 --> 00:29:00.083
It's not an accident that you're on the earth at this
00:29:00.083 --> 00:29:01.819
Particular time, and you are not insignificant.
00:29:01.819 --> 00:29:05.189
I think so many times we think that we don't have a voice and
00:29:05.189 --> 00:29:08.058
We don't have, you know, we can't really make an impact.
00:29:08.058 --> 00:29:11.595
But honestly, it's amazing what god will do with anybody who
00:29:11.595 --> 00:29:16.233
Simply says yes to him.
00:29:16.233 --> 00:29:17.968
One of the reasons i, i have this tattoo that says
00:29:17.968 --> 00:29:21.238
Yes, lord on my--
00:29:21.238 --> 00:29:22.472
And it was because i read this book by-- who used to be
00:29:22.472 --> 00:29:25.843
Secretary of the united nations? dag hammarskjold.
00:29:25.843 --> 00:29:29.580
When he passed, they had, um, in his new york apartment.
00:29:30.714 --> 00:29:35.519
There was a notebook, and in it he'd scribbled all sorts of
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.889
Things about his journey with christ.
00:29:38.889 --> 00:29:41.091
And it's actually been published after his death.
00:29:41.091 --> 00:29:43.160
It's called markings. i have a copy.
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:44.728
It's phenomenal. but one of the things
00:29:44.728 --> 00:29:46.330
That he said, for everything that has been,
00:29:46.330 --> 00:29:49.800
Thank you, and for everything that will be, yes.
00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:53.070
And i remember reading that, and i found it so
00:29:53.070 --> 00:29:56.273
Profound that i wrote it in the back of my bible.
00:29:56.273 --> 00:29:58.008
But i was like, lord, i don't know if i can say that, for
00:29:58.008 --> 00:30:00.811
Everything that has been, thank you.
00:30:00.811 --> 00:30:03.180
Like, thank you that my dad died by suicide.
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:05.549
Thank you that, you know, all this.
00:30:05.549 --> 00:30:07.184
And for everything that will be, yes. what will that mean?
00:30:07.184 --> 00:30:10.754
You know, my mom's favorite scripture was, i know the plans
00:30:10.754 --> 00:30:13.023
I have for you, says the lord.
00:30:13.023 --> 00:30:14.224
And i used to say, i would just like to see the plans.
00:30:14.224 --> 00:30:16.193
If i could make a few suggestions, i'll sign off
00:30:16.193 --> 00:30:18.262
On the plans. that's good.
00:30:18.262 --> 00:30:19.997
But i realized the problem was not with god.
00:30:19.997 --> 00:30:22.766
The problem was with me.
00:30:22.766 --> 00:30:23.934
Once i got to know him better,
00:30:24.568 --> 00:30:26.503
That became my prayer for two years.
00:30:27.271 --> 00:30:29.640
And once i got to know how good god is, how kind god is, how
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:34.211
Faithful god is, how loving god is,
00:30:34.211 --> 00:30:37.047
Every morning that i wake up,
00:30:37.047 --> 00:30:39.683
First words out of my mouth to the lord are, yes, lord.
00:30:39.683 --> 00:30:43.053
I don't know what i'm saying yes to, but i know who
00:30:43.053 --> 00:30:45.489
I am saying yes to.
00:30:45.489 --> 00:30:47.157
Daily life in the cake shop changed quite a bit from before
00:30:47.157 --> 00:30:50.327
All the legal stuff.
00:30:50.327 --> 00:30:51.595
We were not able to settle into a routine.
00:30:51.595 --> 00:30:53.931
You get up in the morning, you come to the shop and you know,
00:30:53.931 --> 00:30:56.934
You don't know what to expect.
00:30:56.934 --> 00:30:58.969
I just want to, you know, greet my customers, treat them
00:30:58.969 --> 00:31:02.339
Graciously, find out what they need.
00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:04.708
Um, when we open the shop, i decided what i wanted to open
00:31:04.708 --> 00:31:08.612
Was a cake shop, that i could use cakes as a canvas to help
00:31:08.612 --> 00:31:12.349
People celebrate important events.
00:31:12.349 --> 00:31:14.151
And now, after this, i've got people coming in asking for
00:31:14.151 --> 00:31:18.255
Cakes that aren't legitimate.
00:31:18.255 --> 00:31:20.123
I've never had a call like any of these before.
00:31:20.123 --> 00:31:22.359
We're in the birthday business, party business.
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.695
We want to create cakes that
00:31:24.695 --> 00:31:26.563
Help people celebrate special occasions.
00:31:26.563 --> 00:31:28.565
And the worst that could happen is you miss the mark.
00:31:28.565 --> 00:31:31.368
But in this one, i'm getting accused of all kinds of things.
00:31:31.368 --> 00:31:35.038
Uh, death threats. had a gentleman called me and say,
00:31:35.038 --> 00:31:38.575
You know, i'm coming to your shop, i've got a gun, and i'm
00:31:38.575 --> 00:31:41.411
Going to blow your head off.
00:31:41.411 --> 00:31:43.547
Hangs up, calls right back, tells me what street he's on.
00:31:43.547 --> 00:31:47.718
You know, take me this long to get here, and i'm going to come
00:31:47.718 --> 00:31:50.053
And blow your head off.
00:31:50.053 --> 00:31:51.321
Like that's never happened before.
00:31:51.321 --> 00:31:54.324
So my daughter was in the back, and so i went and told her
00:31:54.324 --> 00:31:57.694
About this call and, and said, i'm going to go call the
00:31:57.694 --> 00:32:00.330
Police and make sure that nothing happens.
00:32:00.330 --> 00:32:03.367
So the policeman showed up. the caller kept calling.
00:32:03.367 --> 00:32:06.636
I'm this close. i'll be there in this much time.
00:32:06.636 --> 00:32:08.638
And i don't know if he ever showed up or not, or if he
00:32:08.638 --> 00:32:10.540
Pulled up and saw the police car in front of our shop and
00:32:10.540 --> 00:32:13.276
Thought that-- thought better of it.
00:32:13.276 --> 00:32:14.911
But you just can't expect something like that from just
00:32:14.911 --> 00:32:18.749
Trying to live by your faith.
00:32:18.749 --> 00:32:20.050
And that's one that i remember clearly, because it was one of
00:32:20.050 --> 00:32:22.753
The first that was like legitimate.
00:32:22.753 --> 00:32:25.055
But there were also just hokey phone calls that i'm going to
00:32:25.055 --> 00:32:28.825
Come and, you know, chop you up with a machete.
00:32:28.825 --> 00:32:31.628
Were they legitimate? i don't know.
00:32:31.628 --> 00:32:34.031
I know the one sounded legitimate, and there were some
00:32:34.031 --> 00:32:37.501
That i just couldn't take as serious.
00:32:37.501 --> 00:32:40.771
We had four protests that i know of.
00:32:40.771 --> 00:32:43.540
One of them, our parking lot was filled with a couple of
00:32:43.540 --> 00:32:47.077
Hundred people, but i dealt with it pretty easily, i think,
00:32:47.077 --> 00:32:49.913
Because i believe in a god who is sovereign over everything,
00:32:49.913 --> 00:32:53.016
And that means everything.
00:32:53.016 --> 00:32:54.851
And we took trays of cookies out and passed them out to all
00:32:54.851 --> 00:32:58.955
The people that were out there.
00:32:58.955 --> 00:32:59.856
And the people who were
00:32:59.856 --> 00:33:00.791
Protesting us refused to take cookies.
00:33:00.791 --> 00:33:02.793
So i guess that's up to them.
00:33:02.793 --> 00:33:04.661
But we tried to be gracious and kind to everybody.
00:33:04.661 --> 00:33:08.265
Most of the people who showed up were here to support us, so
00:33:08.265 --> 00:33:11.268
That was really encouraging and
00:33:11.268 --> 00:33:12.803
Hopefully we encourage them as well.
00:33:12.803 --> 00:33:14.638
I remember one day my wife called me and as i walked in
00:33:14.638 --> 00:33:17.874
The door and she said, well, is there any graffiti there?
00:33:17.874 --> 00:33:20.444
I said, no, but channel two's outside.
00:33:20.444 --> 00:33:23.980
So filming stuff and doing
00:33:23.980 --> 00:33:26.650
Interviews that became part of life.
00:33:26.650 --> 00:33:30.020
Crazy things.
00:33:30.387 --> 00:33:31.621
But also people coming to show support and just come in
00:33:31.621 --> 00:33:34.825
And say hello.
00:33:34.825 --> 00:33:36.193
I'm not sure when people started coming in, you know,
00:33:36.193 --> 00:33:38.795
To support us like that, other than like from the very first
00:33:38.795 --> 00:33:41.665
Day when people came to encourage us.
00:33:41.665 --> 00:33:44.835
But we do have a book that we started people signing it, and
00:33:44.835 --> 00:33:48.905
We've had people now from 50 different countries and all 50
00:33:48.905 --> 00:33:52.209
States that have come to support us physically in the
00:33:52.209 --> 00:33:55.779
Shop, and that's really encouraging.
00:33:55.779 --> 00:33:58.048
It's just so cool to think that somebody is on vacation and
00:33:58.048 --> 00:34:01.785
They take their time to come and say hello and thank you for,
00:34:01.785 --> 00:34:05.889
Say thank you for what we've done and and to encourage us.
00:34:05.889 --> 00:34:09.526
And we in turn try and encourage them.
00:34:09.526 --> 00:34:13.096
My family is all grown stronger because of this, and we've all
00:34:13.096 --> 00:34:17.367
Grown because of it.
00:34:17.367 --> 00:34:18.802
Um, but there were times where we had to encourage one
00:34:18.802 --> 00:34:22.272
Another, i suppose, and reassure each other that
00:34:22.272 --> 00:34:25.375
This is god's fight. this is not our fight.
00:34:25.375 --> 00:34:28.044
He's in control.
00:34:28.044 --> 00:34:29.212
We just obey and do what he needs us to do.
00:34:29.212 --> 00:34:32.115
Everybody's on board with that. the whole family.
00:34:32.115 --> 00:34:34.651
It has been an incredible blessing to have my grandkids
00:34:34.651 --> 00:34:38.388
Who are homeschooled sometimes right here in the shop,
00:34:38.388 --> 00:34:41.558
A good part of their homeschooling happens right
00:34:41.558 --> 00:34:43.360
Here in the cake shop,
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:44.761
To see their interest in government, civics, those kind
00:34:44.761 --> 00:34:48.565
Of things and have a, i think, a clearer understanding of what
00:34:48.565 --> 00:34:52.636
The constitution means, what the separation of powers is all
00:34:52.636 --> 00:34:55.539
About, and the checks and balances.
00:34:55.539 --> 00:34:58.308
And in our last case, my oldest granddaughter expressed an
00:34:58.308 --> 00:35:02.612
Interest in going.
00:35:02.612 --> 00:35:03.914
So all three of them got to go and watch what actually happens
00:35:03.914 --> 00:35:06.449
In the court.
00:35:06.449 --> 00:35:07.684
Like i was explaining, the attorney gets up, the justices
00:35:07.684 --> 00:35:10.654
Ask questions, and they have to
00:35:10.654 --> 00:35:11.555
Be able to explain the case to them,
00:35:11.555 --> 00:35:15.258
Answer completely, compellingly, convincingly,
00:35:15.258 --> 00:35:18.261
Clearly and go to the next question and see how it's
00:35:18.261 --> 00:35:22.165
Supposed to work.
00:35:22.165 --> 00:35:23.533
And in this case, i think it did.
00:35:23.533 --> 00:35:25.535
It has led to a lot of interesting discussions,
00:35:25.535 --> 00:35:27.704
Discussions about what our faith means to us and what do
00:35:27.704 --> 00:35:30.807
We do if this situation comes up or that situation, or how
00:35:30.807 --> 00:35:33.743
Can we pass this information on to the kids and the grandkids
00:35:33.743 --> 00:35:37.447
And to our friends?
00:35:37.447 --> 00:35:38.548
And how can we encourage them using this situation?
00:35:38.548 --> 00:35:42.385
Well, the day-to-day basis around here, we never know
00:35:42.385 --> 00:35:44.554
What to expect.
00:35:44.554 --> 00:35:45.722
But we do know that god expects us and empowers us to be
00:35:45.722 --> 00:35:49.392
Faithful to him.
00:35:49.392 --> 00:35:50.694
So that's what we want to do, no matter who comes in the door
00:35:50.694 --> 00:35:52.896
Or who calls us on the phone,
00:35:52.896 --> 00:35:54.397
What kind of cake they order,
00:35:54.397 --> 00:35:56.099
Or how they want to treat us or whatever,
00:35:56.099 --> 00:35:58.635
We want to be faithful and gracious and show god's love.
00:35:58.635 --> 00:36:01.838
So day to day, that's that's our duty.
00:36:02.672 --> 00:36:06.676
What's your prayer for this documentary?
00:36:06.676 --> 00:36:09.579
Oh, you know, again, i think it would be to create a movement,
00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:13.049
A stirring in the spirit of every christian to do the
00:36:13.049 --> 00:36:16.786
Simple things well.
00:36:16.786 --> 00:36:17.954
You know, just be faithful and be ready to go.
00:36:17.954 --> 00:36:21.625
Nobody starts out thinking they're going to the supreme
00:36:21.625 --> 00:36:24.227
Court or they're going to have a big moment.
00:36:24.227 --> 00:36:26.730
That's not, that's not who we are.
00:36:26.730 --> 00:36:28.865
But that simple measurement, that simple step of faith, can
00:36:28.865 --> 00:36:32.636
Put you in some very awkward moments.
00:36:32.636 --> 00:36:35.972
And you have to decide, are you just going to be quiet and
00:36:35.972 --> 00:36:38.608
Slither away, or are you going to stand boldly, kindly,
00:36:38.608 --> 00:36:43.747
Gently, with gentleness, which we can do?
00:36:43.747 --> 00:36:46.182
We can be both love and truth.
00:36:46.182 --> 00:36:48.051
Yeah. and to do that well,
00:36:48.051 --> 00:36:49.286
And i think that'll make the difference.
00:36:49.286 --> 00:36:51.354
You know, this whole thing
00:36:51.354 --> 00:36:52.789
Started with jesus and 12 disciples.
00:36:52.789 --> 00:36:56.760
So they accomplished it through the power of the holy spirit.
00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:59.796
Three miles a day-- what can you do with--
00:36:59.796 --> 00:37:01.731
Was as far as he was able to go.
00:37:01.731 --> 00:37:02.832
Yeah, 2 billion people who claim to know christ.
00:37:02.832 --> 00:37:05.135
I'd say the hope here is that people will deepen their faith
00:37:05.135 --> 00:37:08.705
In christ, know the word, and then apply it, even if it
00:37:08.705 --> 00:37:12.942
Costs you your life.
00:37:12.942 --> 00:37:14.144
Yeah. when i think of that, i think of i think it's
00:37:14.144 --> 00:37:18.515
First peter where it says, always be ready to give a
00:37:18.515 --> 00:37:21.318
Reason for the hope that is within you.
00:37:21.318 --> 00:37:23.787
I think when our lives demand an explanation that that's what
00:37:23.787 --> 00:37:27.157
People are looking for.
00:37:27.157 --> 00:37:28.291
We live in a time in our culture where people are so
00:37:28.291 --> 00:37:30.627
Disillusioned with things.
00:37:30.627 --> 00:37:32.362
But when you and i and you, when we make choices that say
00:37:32.362 --> 00:37:36.499
Yes to god, i think that's when if we're not living lives that
00:37:36.499 --> 00:37:40.170
Raise questions, we have to question that.
00:37:40.170 --> 00:37:42.372
Think of the culture we're in right now.
00:37:42.372 --> 00:37:44.441
I mean, i have a 24-year-old son and a 22-year-old son, and
00:37:44.441 --> 00:37:47.977
I talk to their friends.
00:37:47.977 --> 00:37:49.713
And you think we are in a land that most of your needs
00:37:49.713 --> 00:37:52.549
Are met, right?
00:37:52.549 --> 00:37:54.084
And many of your wants are met.
00:37:54.084 --> 00:37:55.919
Yet this generation is so desperate, they don't know
00:37:55.919 --> 00:37:59.789
Their identity.
00:37:59.789 --> 00:38:01.091
They are, you know, the levels of depression and anxiety are
00:38:01.091 --> 00:38:05.829
Sky high from the time they begin measuring these things.
00:38:05.829 --> 00:38:09.299
So at a point of plenty from a worldly standpoint,
00:38:09.299 --> 00:38:12.969
Our tanks are empty.
00:38:12.969 --> 00:38:15.071
And i think one of the things for the church to be mindful
00:38:15.071 --> 00:38:18.508
Of, to not fall in that trap, is do something different.
00:38:18.508 --> 00:38:23.146
Don't just watch tv tonight.
00:38:23.146 --> 00:38:25.148
Do something that encourages your faith.
00:38:25.148 --> 00:38:27.217
Reach out to somebody.
00:38:27.217 --> 00:38:28.251
Take care of somebody.
00:38:28.251 --> 00:38:29.219
Get involved in foster care.
00:38:29.219 --> 00:38:31.254
Do something that helps another person.
00:38:31.254 --> 00:38:34.524
And to your point, you will see the lord move.
00:38:34.524 --> 00:38:37.794
Yes.
00:38:37.794 --> 00:38:39.262
When you step out with action to do something.
00:38:39.262 --> 00:38:42.599
I saw that in my mom's life because she'd been a widow
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:44.534
Since she was 33, never remarried, and her prayer was
00:38:44.534 --> 00:38:48.104
Just that she would see all three of us grown up serving
00:38:48.104 --> 00:38:50.273
The lord and in our calling.
00:38:50.273 --> 00:38:52.342
And when my brother was the final one to finish as an
00:38:52.342 --> 00:38:54.644
Architect and graduate, i flew home to scotland and i sat down
00:38:54.644 --> 00:38:57.547
With her and i said, okay, i'm here to dream with you for the
00:38:57.547 --> 00:39:00.283
Rest of your life.
00:39:00.283 --> 00:39:01.418
And she said, what are you talking about?
00:39:01.418 --> 00:39:03.119
I said, mom, you had two prayers.
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:04.621
God said to them, you've still got a pulse.
00:39:04.621 --> 00:39:06.823
There's not a white chalk mark
00:39:06.823 --> 00:39:07.957
Around your body, so you're not done.
00:39:07.957 --> 00:39:10.226
What have you always dreamt of?
00:39:10.226 --> 00:39:11.761
And she ended up hosting a bible study in her home.
00:39:11.761 --> 00:39:15.064
And at first she was like, i can't do it.
00:39:15.064 --> 00:39:16.866
Will you do the first one?
00:39:16.866 --> 00:39:17.834
And i'm like, no, mom, i'll make the tea.
00:39:17.834 --> 00:39:20.069
But this is a dream that god's put in your heart.
00:39:20.069 --> 00:39:22.472
And to watch my widowed mother living in a very small income.
00:39:22.472 --> 00:39:27.143
To watch her little living room become holy ground was amazing.
00:39:27.143 --> 00:39:31.147
Yeah.
00:39:31.147 --> 00:39:32.415
And when she called me to tell me she'd just led her first
00:39:32.415 --> 00:39:33.783
Neighbor to christ, it was like, yeah, that's the lord.
00:39:33.783 --> 00:39:36.319
I think the enemy of our soul wins when we become inactive.
00:39:36.319 --> 00:39:39.789
Yeah. because what can the lord
00:39:39.789 --> 00:39:41.257
Do with just a blob sitting there?
00:39:41.257 --> 00:39:43.259
Yeah. we've got to be active don't you think?
00:39:43.259 --> 00:39:45.395
I mean, that's success for the project is that christians lean
00:39:45.395 --> 00:39:48.364
In to understanding their calling and what it means to
00:39:48.364 --> 00:39:52.068
Follow the lord and be someone who advances what's good,
00:39:52.068 --> 00:39:55.371
Someone who opposes what's evil, someone who innovates and
00:39:55.371 --> 00:39:58.975
Contributes things that the world needs, and someone who
00:39:58.975 --> 00:40:02.512
Can help restore and bring restoration to brokenness.
00:40:02.512 --> 00:40:05.815
I mean, it's not like the opportunities aren't there in
00:40:05.815 --> 00:40:08.451
Every sphere of influence.
00:40:08.451 --> 00:40:10.119
And that's one of the challenges, is when you watch a
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:12.188
Film like truth rising that deals with kind of culture
00:40:12.188 --> 00:40:14.757
At such a global level, we can forget that really, culture is
00:40:14.757 --> 00:40:18.828
Made up of cultures.
00:40:18.828 --> 00:40:20.096
There's a lot of individual areas of influence and spheres
00:40:20.096 --> 00:40:24.267
That we have access to, and the challenge is that we bring
00:40:24.267 --> 00:40:28.271
Redemption to our little corner of the world.
00:40:28.271 --> 00:40:32.208
I'm always moved thinking about when paul says in second
00:40:32.208 --> 00:40:36.212
Corinthians five that anyone is in christ is a new creation,
00:40:36.212 --> 00:40:40.517
And that someone who's been made a new creation has been
00:40:40.517 --> 00:40:43.152
Reconciled to god, and now he's
00:40:43.152 --> 00:40:44.954
Been made a minister of reconciliation.
00:40:44.954 --> 00:40:47.290
So really, if you ask me, what is success for the project,
00:40:47.290 --> 00:40:51.160
It's that there would be a movement of christians who
00:40:51.160 --> 00:40:54.430
Become ministers of reconciliation.
00:40:54.430 --> 00:40:56.799
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:40:56.799 --> 00:40:58.134
I knew that there was another case brewing against me,
00:40:58.134 --> 00:41:02.105
Because the day that the us supreme court granted our case,
00:41:02.105 --> 00:41:05.608
An attorney, an activist attorney here in colorado
00:41:05.608 --> 00:41:09.078
Called and asked us if we could create a cake that was pink on
00:41:09.078 --> 00:41:12.382
The inside and blue on the outside, and that those colors
00:41:12.382 --> 00:41:15.385
Were symbolic to celebrate
00:41:15.385 --> 00:41:17.654
Changing gender from male to female.
00:41:17.654 --> 00:41:20.356
So we told this attorney that we would be happy to create
00:41:20.356 --> 00:41:23.993
Other cakes for them, other custom cakes.
00:41:23.993 --> 00:41:25.662
But we couldn't create that cake because it expressed a
00:41:25.662 --> 00:41:28.197
Message that went against our faith.
00:41:28.197 --> 00:41:30.366
And that attorney had filed a complaint with the colorado
00:41:30.366 --> 00:41:33.369
Civil rights commission, and that was in the background
00:41:33.369 --> 00:41:36.005
Through all of this.
00:41:36.005 --> 00:41:37.507
So even though we had this wonderful victory from the us
00:41:37.507 --> 00:41:40.043
Supreme court, still wondering what's going to happen with
00:41:40.043 --> 00:41:42.845
This complaint that we knew was there.
00:41:42.845 --> 00:41:44.414
And three weeks later, the commission took up that
00:41:44.414 --> 00:41:46.416
Complaint and sued us again.
00:41:46.416 --> 00:41:49.152
So we call that masterpiece two.
00:41:49.152 --> 00:41:51.788
The first one, masterpiece one.
00:41:51.788 --> 00:41:53.590
Then masterpiece two.
00:41:53.590 --> 00:41:54.724
I was feeling targeted.
00:41:55.224 --> 00:41:56.593
But the attorney who called and requested that cake made that
00:41:56.593 --> 00:42:00.129
Clear, that this cake was intentional.
00:42:00.129 --> 00:42:03.533
And the attorney who sued us made it clear that that cake
00:42:03.533 --> 00:42:06.903
Was designed to correct the errors of my thinking.
00:42:06.903 --> 00:42:10.373
It came out of the blue when it was dismissed.
00:42:11.274 --> 00:42:14.277
Um, i was ready to be deposed.
00:42:14.277 --> 00:42:16.746
Which means for a layman out there, that means that the
00:42:16.746 --> 00:42:21.017
Other side has seven hours to ask me anything, and i have to
00:42:21.017 --> 00:42:25.254
Answer every question, and they're going to try and make
00:42:25.254 --> 00:42:29.092
Me twist my words or do whatever they can so that they
00:42:29.092 --> 00:42:32.095
Have the upper hand going into trial.
00:42:32.095 --> 00:42:34.764
I was sitting at the conference table with my attorneys from
00:42:34.764 --> 00:42:38.668
Atf on this side, the opposing attorneys on that side, and
00:42:38.668 --> 00:42:41.671
Court reporters ready to go.
00:42:41.671 --> 00:42:44.307
And the attorneys from colorado
00:42:44.307 --> 00:42:47.944
Said, we need to have a meeting.
00:42:47.944 --> 00:42:50.113
And they excuse the court reporters and said that they
00:42:50.113 --> 00:42:54.217
Were willing to dismiss this case.
00:42:54.217 --> 00:42:56.786
This wasn't the vehicle they wanted to use is the quote that
00:42:56.786 --> 00:42:59.288
I remember. at the time we were suing the colorado civil rights
00:42:59.288 --> 00:43:04.427
Commission in federal court because of their relentless
00:43:04.427 --> 00:43:07.864
Suits against us.
00:43:07.864 --> 00:43:09.232
And they said that if they dismiss their case, our case
00:43:09.232 --> 00:43:13.369
Could be dismissed as well in federal court.
00:43:13.369 --> 00:43:15.505
And so they all just kind of went away.
00:43:15.505 --> 00:43:17.807
And so suddenly it's done. not quite
00:43:17.807 --> 00:43:23.246
Because after they dismissed it, the attorney who was
00:43:23.246 --> 00:43:25.648
Responsible for filing the charges with the state of
00:43:25.648 --> 00:43:28.718
Colorado waited for over 90 days and then filed a
00:43:28.718 --> 00:43:32.755
Civil lawsuit against me. so masterpiece three.
00:43:32.755 --> 00:43:37.260
It lasted up until this october,
00:43:37.894 --> 00:43:40.630
October the 8th. we worked our way through the district court
00:43:40.630 --> 00:43:43.733
Of colorado, colorado court of appeals, and then to the state
00:43:43.733 --> 00:43:46.936
Supreme court, where just october the 8th, the state
00:43:46.936 --> 00:43:49.639
Supreme court dismissed the charges, dismissed the case.
00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:53.843
They ruled that between masterpiece two and masterpiece
00:43:53.843 --> 00:43:57.680
Three, the attorney who filed the complaint into and sued me
00:43:57.680 --> 00:44:01.718
In three, was required to appeal the dismissal.
00:44:01.718 --> 00:44:04.887
When they dismissed case number two. the state supreme court
00:44:04.887 --> 00:44:09.358
Recognized that that this step had to be taken.
00:44:09.358 --> 00:44:13.162
When i say it, it sounds like they didn't put the stamp on
00:44:13.162 --> 00:44:15.998
Right side up on an envelope or something.
00:44:15.998 --> 00:44:17.867
But no, it was a major thing that the other side was
00:44:17.867 --> 00:44:20.870
Required to do. i'm not in court.
00:44:20.870 --> 00:44:23.539
And there's, the other side
00:44:23.539 --> 00:44:25.475
Can't appeal that dismissal in the state supreme court.
00:44:25.475 --> 00:44:28.544
And so right now, for the first time, basically in 12+ years,
00:44:28.544 --> 00:44:32.982
I'm not being sued.
00:44:32.982 --> 00:44:34.984
It's still sinking in because i still have to deal with the
00:44:36.185 --> 00:44:39.889
Court issues.
00:44:39.889 --> 00:44:41.190
And, you know, people coming in and trying to encourage them,
00:44:41.190 --> 00:44:43.826
Trying to explain to them why this is a good system, why it
00:44:43.826 --> 00:44:47.263
Was a great decision.
00:44:47.263 --> 00:44:48.765
I think, um, that god gave us the system that we have, kind
00:44:48.765 --> 00:44:53.770
Of like he gave the law to israel.
00:44:53.770 --> 00:44:56.139
And paul says in galatians, i think that the law was a tutor
00:44:56.139 --> 00:45:00.209
In order to teach us how sinful
00:45:00.209 --> 00:45:02.245
We are and how much we need a savior.
00:45:02.245 --> 00:45:04.080
He gave us our constitution to show us
00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:06.315
The best system you can come up with is still going to fall
00:45:06.315 --> 00:45:09.152
Short because of sinful people.
00:45:09.152 --> 00:45:11.521
And so it points us to him, our need for him to be the one
00:45:11.521 --> 00:45:15.792
Who rules our lives.
00:45:15.792 --> 00:45:17.326
And we do that personally, and we do it in our families.
00:45:17.326 --> 00:45:19.095
We do it in our communities.
00:45:19.095 --> 00:45:20.263
Then we have a better nation, one that exalts him.
00:45:20.263 --> 00:45:23.065
I love that last conversation that jesus had on on the mount
00:45:23.065 --> 00:45:26.335
Of olives with his, that olivet discourse where he's talking.
00:45:26.335 --> 00:45:29.105
He tells them the story of a master going away, and he
00:45:29.105 --> 00:45:32.608
Leaves one servant with five talents, one with two,
00:45:32.608 --> 00:45:35.278
And one with one.
00:45:35.278 --> 00:45:36.913
And when he comes back, the thing that blew me away was the
00:45:36.913 --> 00:45:39.482
One who had five who made ten,
00:45:39.482 --> 00:45:41.918
You know, jesus says, well done, good and faithful servant.
00:45:41.918 --> 00:45:44.754
Enter into the joy prepared.
00:45:44.754 --> 00:45:46.389
The one with two has four, which is six less than the other guy.
00:45:46.389 --> 00:45:50.560
Jesus has exactly the same thing to him,
00:45:50.560 --> 00:45:53.729
Well done, good and faithful servant.
00:45:53.729 --> 00:45:55.698
So to me god has put something in every single one of our
00:45:55.698 --> 00:45:59.035
Hands, and that's all he'll ask.
00:45:59.035 --> 00:46:00.903
What have you done with what i gave you?
00:46:00.903 --> 00:46:02.972
And to some, he's given incredible things.
00:46:02.972 --> 00:46:04.874
Incredible platforms.
00:46:04.874 --> 00:46:06.042
Yeah, use it for the lord.
00:46:06.042 --> 00:46:07.610
But whatever the lord has put
00:46:07.610 --> 00:46:09.078
In your hands, that's how we'll hear,
00:46:09.078 --> 00:46:11.447
Well done, good and faithful servant.
00:46:11.447 --> 00:46:12.782
Yeah. and just don't bury it.
00:46:12.782 --> 00:46:14.584
Don't bury it. no. which is the point, right?
00:46:14.584 --> 00:46:16.719
I know, don't go bury it, because that's not what
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:18.788
The lord rewarded.
00:46:18.788 --> 00:46:20.323
Yeah. he rewarded action.
00:46:20.323 --> 00:46:22.625
What's interesting,
00:46:22.625 --> 00:46:23.593
The third servant returned to the master
00:46:23.593 --> 00:46:25.895
Everything that the master had
00:46:25.895 --> 00:46:27.063
Given him, he didn't lose anything.
00:46:27.063 --> 00:46:28.497
Yeah, but that wasn't enough. no.
00:46:28.497 --> 00:46:30.399
And to see our lives as gifts of god, uh, and our
00:46:30.399 --> 00:46:34.537
Salvation as renewed lives of god's gift that are to bring
00:46:34.537 --> 00:46:39.342
Blessing to the world around us. yeah.
00:46:39.342 --> 00:46:41.344
You know, sheila, the other thing is we can over complicate
00:46:41.344 --> 00:46:43.746
Everything. be faithful, move out and let the lord lead.
00:46:43.746 --> 00:46:48.551
And i think if you can do that, the lord will use you.
00:46:48.551 --> 00:46:52.288
Yeah. and you've said this before on other occasions, jim.
00:46:52.288 --> 00:46:55.625
But you're so right. we need to know the word of god.
00:46:55.625 --> 00:46:58.995
You know, i think you know, when it talks-- people perish
00:46:58.995 --> 00:47:01.030
For lack of knowledge.
00:47:01.030 --> 00:47:02.098
We need to know what god's word actually says.
00:47:02.098 --> 00:47:03.933
And it's one of the things i love that the colson center
00:47:03.933 --> 00:47:06.435
Does, that you have a heart to educate believers into how to
00:47:06.435 --> 00:47:11.240
Live in this world.
00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:12.675
How do people get in touch with you?
00:47:12.675 --> 00:47:14.410
Yeah. well, the colson center's website is colsoncenter.org.
00:47:14.410 --> 00:47:17.380
And i mean, there's various resources, podcasts
00:47:17.380 --> 00:47:19.849
And so on there every day
00:47:19.849 --> 00:47:21.884
But it really reflects the heart of chuck colson, the
00:47:21.884 --> 00:47:25.221
Great christian leader of the last generation, who really
00:47:25.221 --> 00:47:29.058
Wanted to see the church be the church.
00:47:29.058 --> 00:47:31.093
That was his line. i always loved that line,
00:47:31.093 --> 00:47:32.795
Let the church be the church.
00:47:32.795 --> 00:47:34.630
And, you know, he did not believe it was just kind of the
00:47:34.630 --> 00:47:38.234
Famous, popular christian's job to be christians in the world,
00:47:38.234 --> 00:47:42.004
But that we all had an ability
00:47:42.004 --> 00:47:44.273
To understand and know what is true,
00:47:44.273 --> 00:47:46.642
And really to think about christianity as if it's true.
00:47:46.642 --> 00:47:50.913
That's different than thinking about it as if it's helpful
00:47:50.913 --> 00:47:53.382
Or just personal.
00:47:53.382 --> 00:47:55.117
Christianity is personal, but it's not private.
00:47:55.117 --> 00:47:57.253
We're talking about public truths.
00:47:57.253 --> 00:47:59.121
God created the world.
00:47:59.121 --> 00:48:00.523
Humans have infinite value made in his image.
00:48:00.523 --> 00:48:02.758
Jesus christ actually was the god man who came and walked on
00:48:02.758 --> 00:48:06.395
This earth, died, and his resurrection actually happened.
00:48:06.395 --> 00:48:10.700
And that these are pivot points in human history.
00:48:10.700 --> 00:48:12.969
So orienting our life around that is, uh, is really what the
00:48:12.969 --> 00:48:16.939
Colson center has been about
00:48:16.939 --> 00:48:18.708
Because of this vision of our founder.
00:48:18.708 --> 00:48:20.943
And that's really what is the truth rising is all about, both
00:48:20.943 --> 00:48:24.146
The documentary and then the study is go deeper, you know,
00:48:24.146 --> 00:48:28.084
Learn about what it means to be a person of hope and truth and
00:48:28.084 --> 00:48:33.255
Identity and calling in this moment.
00:48:33.255 --> 00:48:35.992
Be a joyful warrior.
00:48:36.459 --> 00:48:38.160
Yes, that's what it is.
00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:40.062
That's beautiful.
00:48:40.062 --> 00:48:40.830
Are you this nice all the time?
00:48:41.464 --> 00:48:45.735
That's a question you're going to have to ask everybody else,
00:48:45.735 --> 00:48:48.004
I think i am, but i think it's not because of anything i do.
00:48:48.004 --> 00:48:52.041
I think it's because of god gives us in the fruits of the
00:48:52.041 --> 00:48:55.277
Spirit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
00:48:55.277 --> 00:48:58.280
Faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:00.182
Those are fruits of the spirit.
00:49:00.182 --> 00:49:01.984
They're not things that we do for the spirit, the things he
00:49:01.984 --> 00:49:04.120
Does through us when we're obedient.
00:49:04.120 --> 00:49:06.489
I've never gotten angry or bitter toward the two men who
00:49:06.489 --> 00:49:09.492
Sued me the first time,
00:49:09.492 --> 00:49:10.760
The attorney who's suing me in masterpiece two and three.
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:13.429
I'd be glad to have conversation with any of them,
00:49:13.429 --> 00:49:16.298
Treat them the way i would treat any other customer that
00:49:16.298 --> 00:49:18.134
Came in the shop.
00:49:18.134 --> 00:49:19.869
I knew right from the start that this calling had been
00:49:19.869 --> 00:49:22.605
Placed on us, and that we had to do our best to be obedient
00:49:22.605 --> 00:49:25.674
To god and faithful to his word.
00:49:25.674 --> 00:49:28.611
But there was a point where we were deciding to go to the
00:49:28.611 --> 00:49:31.881
United states supreme court
00:49:31.881 --> 00:49:33.682
And, uh, talking to different people,
00:49:33.682 --> 00:49:36.786
One of the things i thought of was, you know, why don't we go
00:49:36.786 --> 00:49:40.156
Ahead and file the petition?
00:49:40.156 --> 00:49:41.524
They're already not hearing our case.
00:49:41.524 --> 00:49:44.060
The worst they could do is deny our case, and then we're
00:49:44.060 --> 00:49:46.162
Officially not being heard.
00:49:46.162 --> 00:49:48.064
And one of my attorneys told me, no, the worst that could
00:49:48.064 --> 00:49:50.633
Happen is that they grant your case and you lose.
00:49:50.633 --> 00:49:55.504
And i think it was at that point that i realized how much
00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:59.442
Larger this was than me and my cake shop did.
00:49:59.442 --> 00:50:02.645
This case represented every american because free speech
00:50:02.645 --> 00:50:07.016
Is for everyone.
00:50:07.016 --> 00:50:08.651
And if i lose my rights, if they can take away my rights,
00:50:08.651 --> 00:50:11.387
They can take away from anybody and or everybody.
00:50:11.387 --> 00:50:14.557
And i realize that what god has called us to do is so much
00:50:14.557 --> 00:50:17.560
Larger than what i initially thought maybe.
00:50:17.560 --> 00:50:20.463
When i had the opportunity to write the book,
00:50:20.463 --> 00:50:23.833
Two things came to mind immediately.
00:50:23.833 --> 00:50:26.202
One is that i can share what actually happened so that my
00:50:26.202 --> 00:50:30.005
Grandkids grow up ten years, 20 years from now,
00:50:30.005 --> 00:50:33.576
That was that was grandpa?
00:50:34.143 --> 00:50:36.679
And they'll want to know what happened.
00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:38.414
They can go online and find any version that they want.
00:50:38.414 --> 00:50:40.683
But i want them to know what
00:50:40.683 --> 00:50:42.051
Actually happened because i was here.
00:50:42.051 --> 00:50:43.319
I want them to know the truth of what happened that day.
00:50:43.319 --> 00:50:45.921
And then the second thing was to be able to share my faith,
00:50:45.921 --> 00:50:49.458
Share the gospel.
00:50:49.458 --> 00:50:50.659
So i try to write clearly in there what it meant, how i
00:50:50.659 --> 00:50:53.596
Became a christian, how i became a follower of christ,
00:50:53.596 --> 00:50:55.798
What changed that was in my life, and what god's love
00:50:55.798 --> 00:50:58.868
Through sending his son to pay the penalty for
00:50:58.868 --> 00:51:01.170
My sins meant to me. and then to my wife.
00:51:01.170 --> 00:51:04.640
And then to our family and to my business, and down the road
00:51:04.640 --> 00:51:09.345
To impact so many other people.
00:51:09.345 --> 00:51:12.181
God designed all of us to be in a relationship with him, and
00:51:12.181 --> 00:51:16.285
It's our sin that's destroyed that relationship,
00:51:16.285 --> 00:51:19.755
Our willingness to sin, our desire to sin, our inbred
00:51:19.755 --> 00:51:22.424
Nature to sin.
00:51:22.424 --> 00:51:24.026
But god wanted to redeem us and rescue us
00:51:24.026 --> 00:51:26.829
So he sent his son jesus to the cross where he died, and he was
00:51:26.829 --> 00:51:32.201
Buried according to the scriptures.
00:51:32.201 --> 00:51:34.036
And he rose again the third day according to the scriptures to
00:51:34.036 --> 00:51:36.639
Restore that relationship and pay the penalty for our sin.
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:40.843
One of my favorite bible verses comes from the old testament
00:51:40.843 --> 00:51:44.146
And it's second chronicles 16, verse nine, where it says
00:51:44.146 --> 00:51:48.317
That the eyes of the lord range through the whole world to
00:51:48.317 --> 00:51:51.220
Strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him.
00:51:51.220 --> 00:51:55.024
And another version says to show himself strong through
00:51:55.024 --> 00:51:58.594
Those whose hearts are fully committed to him.
00:51:58.594 --> 00:52:01.530
And i would encourage people i can't say my heart is fully
00:52:01.530 --> 00:52:05.868
Committed to him, but it is as much as i'm able to, and he
00:52:05.868 --> 00:52:09.538
Empowers us to do that so that we can stand.
00:52:09.538 --> 00:52:12.541
And in his promise is that he will give us strength.
00:52:12.541 --> 00:52:16.011
He will show himself strong
00:52:16.011 --> 00:52:17.813
Through what we do when we're obedient.
00:52:17.813 --> 00:52:20.282
And obedience isn't difficult when he gives us the ability to
00:52:20.282 --> 00:52:23.919
Obey and he does, he promises that.
00:52:23.919 --> 00:52:27.089
I think i came to the conclusion that this is just
00:52:27.089 --> 00:52:29.391
Something that god has me to do, and i just need to be
00:52:29.391 --> 00:52:32.394
Faithful to it.
00:52:32.394 --> 00:52:33.662
That very first day, when the two men stormed out and god
00:52:33.662 --> 00:52:37.099
Gave me a second timothy 1:7, i was telling you that,
00:52:37.099 --> 00:52:40.402
God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, of love
00:52:40.402 --> 00:52:43.439
And a sound mind and a sound mind part came to me.
00:52:43.439 --> 00:52:46.075
And this isn't your fight.
00:52:46.075 --> 00:52:47.977
God is just going to use us.
00:52:48.577 --> 00:52:50.145
And i just want to be faithful to that.
00:52:50.145 --> 00:52:51.580
So there was never any point where i was debating in my mind
00:52:51.580 --> 00:52:56.452
If this was what god's called me to do.
00:52:56.452 --> 00:52:58.954
It was pretty clear.
00:52:59.421 --> 00:53:01.257
I'm sure that i resolve, my resolve, and my family and
00:53:01.257 --> 00:53:05.527
Everybody around here has grown through the course of all this.
00:53:05.527 --> 00:53:09.531
This was a cake we couldn't create because it expresses a
00:53:09.531 --> 00:53:12.368
Message that goes against my faith.
00:53:12.368 --> 00:53:13.736
That was the crux of the issue.
00:53:13.736 --> 00:53:16.005
Was there ever a second thought?
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:18.007
No. i would make that same decision again and again and
00:53:18.007 --> 00:53:20.809
Again and have had to multiple times since then.
00:53:20.809 --> 00:53:24.280
But it's the right decision.
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:25.681
You have to stand by your faith, and god is fully capable
00:53:25.681 --> 00:53:29.652
Of taking responsibility for my obedience.
00:53:29.652 --> 00:53:32.788
You know, we've looked at jack's story on this and i just--
00:53:33.922 --> 00:53:36.659
Oh, gosh, i hope i get to him. next time i'm in colorado,
00:53:36.659 --> 00:53:39.028
I'm going to get it together. yes. okay.
00:53:39.028 --> 00:53:41.397
Let's go to the shop.
00:53:41.397 --> 00:53:42.298
Yeah. we can have some cake.
00:53:42.298 --> 00:53:44.033
Exactly. but there's something so beautiful about it because
00:53:44.033 --> 00:53:47.569
He's just like,
00:53:47.569 --> 00:53:49.038
He's just like this normal guy who loves jesus and wants to do
00:53:49.038 --> 00:53:52.207
The right thing and welcomes anybody into his shop, but
00:53:52.207 --> 00:53:56.145
Won't go against what his god has placed in his heart.
00:53:56.145 --> 00:53:59.581
I'm thinking of people watching right now, um, who find
00:53:59.581 --> 00:54:02.618
Themselves in a tough place, you know, maybe in their work
00:54:02.618 --> 00:54:05.154
Environment where people are not supportive and they're--
00:54:05.154 --> 00:54:08.357
Jim, would you pray for people who are struggling, maybe that
00:54:08.357 --> 00:54:11.160
They would be able to
00:54:11.160 --> 00:54:12.695
Just like jack, to be able to say yes to the lord?
00:54:13.729 --> 00:54:16.165
Yeah. let me before i do one thing,
00:54:16.165 --> 00:54:18.367
I used to work in the business world, and i tried to be the
00:54:18.367 --> 00:54:21.370
Best christian i could be.
00:54:21.370 --> 00:54:23.005
I remember being a 28 year old.
00:54:23.005 --> 00:54:24.807
There'd be older men at a lunch table smoking cigarettes and
00:54:24.807 --> 00:54:29.011
Drinking martinis, and i'm having iced tea and i'd say,
00:54:29.011 --> 00:54:32.014
Would you guys mind if i pray over our lunch?
00:54:32.014 --> 00:54:34.183
And they go, oh, yeah, and they put their drinks down.
00:54:34.183 --> 00:54:37.553
But even just something that light handed carried weight.
00:54:37.553 --> 00:54:42.191
And again, you can just do so many little things to
00:54:42.191 --> 00:54:45.127
Acknowledge your faithfulness toward the lord.
00:54:45.127 --> 00:54:47.830
But let's pray.
00:54:47.830 --> 00:54:49.264
Father, we are grateful for each and every story that you
00:54:49.264 --> 00:54:52.134
Have working on this earth right now.
00:54:52.134 --> 00:54:54.103
Those testimonies that are and those testimonies that are yet
00:54:54.103 --> 00:54:57.573
To be, and that you're the great orchestrator of
00:54:57.573 --> 00:55:00.476
All of this lord.
00:55:00.476 --> 00:55:01.610
In the workplace, in the home, everywhere in school,
00:55:01.610 --> 00:55:04.880
University, you're working and you have your followers, your
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:09.785
Believers in such a place to carry out that work, to lead
00:55:09.785 --> 00:55:14.356
People to you. embolden them.
00:55:14.356 --> 00:55:17.092
Lord, help us all to feel the courage of our faith and our
00:55:17.092 --> 00:55:20.629
Conviction to say those right words, to be that joyful
00:55:20.629 --> 00:55:25.734
Warrior in a spiritual context, to be graceful in our speech,
00:55:25.734 --> 00:55:30.606
To be mindful that we were all sinners, and that it's only by
00:55:30.606 --> 00:55:35.744
Your grace that we come to know you, lord.
00:55:35.744 --> 00:55:39.114
So work mightily in this generation.
00:55:39.114 --> 00:55:41.650
Lord, may this be a movement that changes the direction of
00:55:41.650 --> 00:55:45.354
Not just people, but nations, that that awakening will occur,
00:55:45.354 --> 00:55:49.391
Will occur and honor you in every way.
00:55:49.391 --> 00:55:52.628
And father, we pray it that it would be so.
00:55:52.628 --> 00:55:56.298
In christ's name, amen.
00:55:56.298 --> 00:55:58.133
Amen, amen.
00:55:58.133 --> 00:55:59.535
So grateful to you both.
00:55:59.535 --> 00:56:01.103
And it's my prayer for this project, for truth rising, that
00:56:01.103 --> 00:56:04.606
The story of courageous christians will multiply and
00:56:04.606 --> 00:56:07.309
Multiply and multiply and multiply.
00:56:07.309 --> 00:56:10.078
So thank you so much.
00:56:10.078 --> 00:56:11.346
Thanks for being with us and thanks for doing this.
00:56:11.346 --> 00:56:13.982
And just remember, you are
00:56:13.982 --> 00:56:15.350
Loved, you are seen, you are known.
00:56:15.350 --> 00:56:17.586
And we'll see you next time.
00:56:17.586 --> 00:56:17.586

John Stonestreet & Jim Daily: The Cost of Living with Conviction | Praise

September 4, 2025 | 58:5

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