Praise

John Stonestreet & Jim Daily: The Cost of Living with Conviction | Praise

September 4, 2025 | S25 E904 | 58:5

Hosted by TBN’s own Matt and Laurie Crouch along with other popular personalities, Praise features the best in contemporary Christian music and worship, fresh and impacting ministry voices, engaging interviews from a wide variety of guests, and a fast-moving hour of relevant talk you won’t want to miss!

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Praise | John Stonestreet & Jim Daily: The Cost of Living with Conviction | Praise | September 4, 2025

Coming up tonight on praise...
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How much larger this was than me and my cake shop did
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This case represented every american because free speech is
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For everyone.
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And i realized that what god has called us to do is so much
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Larger than what i initially thought.
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What an incredible moment in history this is.
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How can we be the courageous christians that god has called
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Us to be in such an incredible, weighty moment in our history?
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The hope here is that people will deepen their faith in
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Christ, know the word, and then apply it, even if it
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Costs you your life.
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Yeah, it feels like the lord is on the move.
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Tonight. on praise from los angeles,
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Anointed faith leaders john stonestreet and jim daly.
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And now your host, sheila walsh.
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Welcome. i'm so glad you're joining me.
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And i just want to ask you guys, have you ever been
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Announced that way before,
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Anointed faith leaders?
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I think it happens to jim all the time.
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No, that's new for me. no, no loving husband.
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That's what we want to go down for.
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That's a lovely legacy.
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Jim daly, of course.
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Focus on the family.
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John stonestreet from colson center.
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Um, you're here to talk to us
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About this incredible documentary.
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Is it a film or is it a documentary?
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It's a documentary.
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It's about an hour and a half.
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Yeah, yeah. i've watched it
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Twice, and i absolutely loved it.
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And you're going to get to see it on friday.
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We're going to show it here on tbn.
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Make sure you tune in.
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It's phenomenal.
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One of my favorite things was it starts off with someone that
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I have a great affection for.
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Um, oz guinness.
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How did he come to be involved in this project?
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Well, it's odd, you kind of sound similar, you and oz, but
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No, oz, we thought oz would be an outstanding scholar,
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Of course, and christian and social critic.
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And he's at the top of his game.
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I think he's, how old is oz?
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80. 81.
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So, i mean, he's been around the world a long time, and he
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Sets it up beautifully to talk about western civilization, the
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The embrace of judeo-christian values, what it did for western
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Civilization, and the fact that we cannot move away from it.
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If we do, it's to our own peril.
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And i think oz is one of the guys that's as close to a
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Gandalf of our generation as that can be.
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And part of what he brings to the film is something that i
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Think is an essential element for christians to understand.
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And he calls it the awa
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Because he has that great accent.
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Right? but what he means is that we're not just in this
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Cultural moment by accident, that god intentionally put us
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In this time and place
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As paul told the epicurean and
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Stoic philosophers on mars hill.
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Uh, in other words, we think about our calling as
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Christians, and we think about maybe being called to the
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Ministry or being called to good works and all
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That stuff is true.
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But we don't oftentimes think about being called to a
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Particular time and place.
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And the first part of the film really sets up what an
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Incredible moment in history this is.
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It's very vulnerable.
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Civilizations come and go.
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Western civilization has kind of outlived its shelf date for
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A while now, particularly because it disconnected and
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Untethered from truth.
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And there's going to be real consequences.
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There's always incredible consequences, both for
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Individual lives but also for entire civilizations.
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So here we are.
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If that's the reality of our
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Moment, how then should we live?
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How can we be the courageous christians that god has called
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Us to be in such an incredible, weighty moment in our history?
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Wow. jim, what would you say to somebody who's watching,
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Thinking, well, you know what?
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I am not courageous.
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I'm just trying to do my best here.
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I'm trying to keep a low profile.
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What would you say to somebody who feels like they just don't--
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They wouldn't even know how to
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Start feeling like a courageous christian?
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Yeah, and it's not something
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You have to learn out of a textbook.
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I think we're all courageous in different ways.
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I hear from moms all day at focus on the family that are
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Doing courageous things.
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So i think we can overcomplicate it.
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Much like parenting, we tend to find want to find perfection.
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And it's really love your child and listen to your child and do
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What almost comes from a godly, natural perspective.
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And you're going to be a good parent.
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I think a lot of this is similar.
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You know, just be ready, be faithful, be courageous.
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And these stories that we share, whether it's chloe cole,
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The detransitioners who at 12,13 decided she was not a girl, but
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A boy with a lot of pressure from social media and doctors
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And psychiatrists that were saying, this is what
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You need to do.
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She had no negative pushback from any physician, and she
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Began that process.
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Double mastectomy just went on hormones.
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Yeah. and then by the time
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She was 17, she said i had made a mistake.
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And what a tragedy.
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And here's the culture pushing these kids in that direction at
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An age they can't bear.
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And that's just one story.
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Jack phillips, the baker, you know.
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We're going to talk about him today.
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Courageously and actually attempted to just say, as a
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Artist, i can't bake a cake for a gay marriage.
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People pummeled him, and yet he quietly, in his rightful way,
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His dignified, christlike way, said, i just i'm sorry.
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I just can't do that.
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And there's other stories that are like those.
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Just give us a little highlight of the other story, because
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There's one, a very moving story about a girl who was
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Going to be put into an arranged marriage, and she did
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Not want that and ran basically from it.
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Well, ayaan hirsi ali has been
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One of the world's great leaders.
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I mean, having come out of just a very dangerous, uh, culture
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Dominated by radical islam
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Going to the west, embracing atheism.
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And now in just the last few years, having spoken out
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Against radical islam.
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Now realizing that the truth isn't in secularism, the truth
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Is found in jesus christ, and
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She believes that on two levels.
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That's what makes her story so remarkable that it's
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The hope for western culture is to re-embrace the christian
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Roots and the fundamental ideas of moral truth and the image of
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God and the other things that really gave life and vitality
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To the western world.
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But it's also the truth about her own life, her own search
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For meaning, her own need for forgiveness.
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It's a wonderful story.
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And then, of course, the story of seth dillon and the babylon
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Bee, which is the funny one.
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We can all laugh at that one.
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I mean, what a remarkable
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Moment in the middle of cancel culture.
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Remember that three, four or five years ago where you say
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The wrong thing and you get canceled?
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That happened to them, but they refused to back down.
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And now we're on the other end of that moment, seeing how many
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Things came to fruition, uh,
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Because they made that decision.
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And it's-- that's really an incredible story.
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And then a good friend of mine, uh, her story is told in the
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Film as well, katie foust. yes.
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Katie was a pastor's wife, just writing a blog anonymously
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Because, as she said, she was a chicken.
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That's what she says.
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I don't think that's true, but that's what she says.
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But she was outed by an activist who did not like the
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Things that she was putting out there, and that action in which
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She was really threatened and her community was threatened,
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Has led her to a life of obedience, saying, i'm
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Doubling down on this.
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And she has become one of the most important child advocates
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In the world, uh, defending the innocence and well-being and
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Protection of children against radical technologies and
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Radical social innovations.
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So these are all courageous folks.
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But, you know, to your point, earlier, they didn't set out
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To be courageous.
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No, they probably didn't have plans to to go on any kind of a
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National stage.
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Uh, but that's not the decision we make.
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We don't make a decision to be famous.
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We make a decision to do the right next thing.
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That's what i love about her story.
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I love that because-- and then when
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She realizes the implications for her church community goes
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And says, listen, guys, i'm really sorry.
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I can stop doing this,
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And they're like, no, you know, god called you to do this.
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You keep going.
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But i want to talk about jack
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Because honestly, when i first heard just a little paragraph
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About the story, i wasn't sure how i would feel about that,
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About a baker saying, well, no, i'm not going to bake you a
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Cake because you're a gay couple.
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And then i watched the documentary.
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That's why you have to watch this documentary, truth rising.
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It's phenomenal.
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It shifted my heart.
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Jack phillips is a man of family and faith.
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He served his community for years as a cake artist and
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Small business owner.
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But in 2012, on a beautiful,
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Sunny colorado day, everything changed.
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And that's when jack chose to take a courageous stand.
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Two men came in and and i sat down with them and asked them,
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You know, my name is jack.
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How can i help you?
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They said, we're here to look for wedding cakes.
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The other one said, it's for our wedding.
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And so i knew what my answer was going to be.
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I just didn't know how to phrase it or how
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They would take it.
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I told them, i'll make you birthday cakes, shower cakes,
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Sell you cookies and brownies.
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I just don't do cakes for same-sex weddings,
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Meaning that i'm glad to serve you, but i can't create the
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Cake that you're asking for.
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You can have anything in my shop.
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You're welcome here.
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I can't create that cake
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Because of the message it expresses.
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The gentleman on my right jumps up, flips me off, starts
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Swearing at me, and storms out of the shop.
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The other one got up and left
00:10:01.880 --> 00:10:02.914
As well and i thought, that's crazy.
00:10:02.914 --> 00:10:07.085
Nobody's ever or sworn at me like that before.
00:10:07.085 --> 00:10:11.356
They eventually filed a lawsuit
00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:13.992
Against me with the state of colorado.
00:10:13.992 --> 00:10:15.694
So everything turned on that conversation.
00:10:15.694 --> 00:10:19.664
This was thursday afternoon that they came in about 4:30.
00:10:20.832 --> 00:10:24.936
And by the time we closed at six, i probably already had a
00:10:24.936 --> 00:10:28.473
Half a dozen hateful phone calls, death threats, just all
00:10:28.473 --> 00:10:32.844
Kinds of horrible things that a gentleman called me and say,
00:10:32.844 --> 00:10:37.082
You know, i'm coming to your shop, i've got a gun, and i'm
00:10:37.082 --> 00:10:39.751
Going to blow your head off.
00:10:39.751 --> 00:10:42.353
And then a bible verse came to me, second timothy 1:7
00:10:43.421 --> 00:10:46.591
That says, god has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power
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And of love and of a sound mind, and a sound mind part
00:10:49.294 --> 00:10:52.063
Is what struck me.
00:10:52.063 --> 00:10:53.164
It's like, this isn't my fight, this is his.
00:10:53.164 --> 00:10:56.968
And from that moment until today, i'm still at peace with
00:10:56.968 --> 00:11:00.572
Everything that's gone on.
00:11:00.572 --> 00:11:01.740
But i was surprised at how quickly things blew up.
00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:11.750
I had different people telling me that, you know, this is a
00:11:12.917 --> 00:11:16.554
Case that will go to the us supreme court.
00:11:16.554 --> 00:11:18.656
Like seriously, to the us supreme court?
00:11:18.656 --> 00:11:21.826
Doesn't the constitution protect my right to live
00:11:22.761 --> 00:11:25.430
According to my freedom to freely exercise my faith?
00:11:25.430 --> 00:11:28.099
But eventually we did get to the us supreme court.
00:11:29.134 --> 00:11:35.073
The day that i heard that the court was going to hear my
00:11:36.207 --> 00:11:38.476
Case, i was here in the shop and i was on my computer, and
00:11:38.476 --> 00:11:42.046
There was a website that i
00:11:42.046 --> 00:11:43.214
Become familiar with called scotusblog.
00:11:43.214 --> 00:11:45.116
And so i'm looking at the screen, waiting and waiting,
00:11:45.116 --> 00:11:48.486
And suddenly i see five words on there and say, masterpiece
00:11:48.486 --> 00:11:52.290
Cake shop has been granted-- [voice breaks]
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Six years later, it still gets me.
00:11:57.162 --> 00:11:58.797
That chokes me up.
00:11:58.797 --> 00:12:00.031
That day i couldn't talk to anybody.
00:12:00.031 --> 00:12:01.533
I couldn't call anybody and say, hey, guess what?
00:12:01.533 --> 00:12:03.635
The supreme court's is hearing our case.
00:12:03.635 --> 00:12:06.171
And finally got my voice back where i could talk.
00:12:06.171 --> 00:12:08.807
And the only one that i could tell that was here was a
00:12:08.807 --> 00:12:11.543
Homeless guy who comes in occasionally.
00:12:11.543 --> 00:12:13.545
So i told him,
00:12:13.912 --> 00:12:15.814
I get to go to the supreme court.
00:12:16.548 --> 00:12:20.418
One of my attorneys told me the worst that could happen is that
00:12:21.619 --> 00:12:25.557
They grant your case and you lose.
00:12:25.557 --> 00:12:28.626
And i think it was at that point that i realized how much
00:12:29.761 --> 00:12:32.664
Larger this was than me and my cake shop did.
00:12:32.664 --> 00:12:35.834
This case represented every american because free speech
00:12:35.834 --> 00:12:40.271
Is for everyone.
00:12:40.271 --> 00:12:41.840
And if i lose my rights, if they can take away my rights,
00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.576
They can take away from anybody and everybody.
00:12:44.576 --> 00:12:47.779
And i realize that what god has called us to do is so much
00:12:47.779 --> 00:12:50.782
Larger than what i initially thought.
00:12:50.782 --> 00:13:01.192
We didn't know what day the decision would be released.
00:13:02.327 --> 00:13:05.897
You never know on any given case.
00:13:05.897 --> 00:13:10.668
My sister had called me and
00:13:11.269 --> 00:13:12.370
Asked if i was following scotusblog.
00:13:12.370 --> 00:13:14.706
Well, not really because i'm
00:13:14.706 --> 00:13:16.107
Not expecting a decision for a while.
00:13:16.107 --> 00:13:18.076
But then i turned on scotusblog and suddenly we have our
00:13:18.076 --> 00:13:21.713
Decision announced on scotusblog that we had won
00:13:21.713 --> 00:13:25.350
And the decision was 7 to 2.
00:13:25.350 --> 00:13:30.521
I found out by myself in the shop.
00:13:31.289 --> 00:13:33.925
And so i'm texting people and then as i'm able to collect
00:13:33.925 --> 00:13:37.896
Myself, people are coming in one at a time, two at a time.
00:13:37.896 --> 00:13:40.765
They're driving by the shop,
00:13:40.765 --> 00:13:42.033
They're honking, they're cheering.
00:13:42.033 --> 00:13:44.836
It was a really fun day. so--
00:13:45.470 --> 00:13:53.177
The day-to-day basis around
00:13:53.778 --> 00:13:55.046
Here, we never know what to expect.
00:13:55.046 --> 00:13:57.282
But we do know that god expects us and empowers us to be
00:13:57.282 --> 00:14:01.152
Faithful to him.
00:14:01.152 --> 00:14:02.453
So that's what we want to do, no matter who comes in the door
00:14:02.453 --> 00:14:04.689
Or who calls us on the phone,
00:14:04.689 --> 00:14:06.324
What kind of cake they order,
00:14:06.324 --> 00:14:07.892
Or how they want to treat us or whatever,
00:14:07.892 --> 00:14:10.361
We want to be faithful and gracious and show god's love.
00:14:10.361 --> 00:14:13.631
You have to stand by your faith, and god is fully capable
00:14:13.631 --> 00:14:17.802
Of taking responsibility for my obedience.
00:14:17.802 --> 00:14:21.339
Before all this legal stuff started, i can tell you i was
00:14:22.507 --> 00:14:25.977
Sleepwalking through my faith.
00:14:25.977 --> 00:14:27.779
This has given me the impetus or the courage to share my
00:14:28.913 --> 00:14:32.617
Faith, because it's good news
00:14:32.617 --> 00:14:34.552
And people want good news these days.
00:14:34.552 --> 00:14:36.287
And that good news is the love that god showed us through
00:14:36.287 --> 00:14:38.756
His son, christ.
00:14:38.756 --> 00:14:40.491
Um, talk to us about jack because he's,
00:14:40.491 --> 00:14:43.661
He doesn't look like a courageous man.
00:14:43.661 --> 00:14:45.663
Doesn't look like a gladiator, does he really?
00:14:45.663 --> 00:14:47.732
And to your point, he didn't set out that day to make
00:14:47.732 --> 00:14:50.134
History, to go to the supreme court and win a religious
00:14:50.134 --> 00:14:52.670
Liberty battle.
00:14:52.670 --> 00:14:54.205
But what i love about jack and he's friends with both john and
00:14:54.205 --> 00:14:57.275
I, and he's a terrific person to have in the state of
00:14:57.275 --> 00:15:00.211
Colorado, which we both come from.
00:15:00.211 --> 00:15:02.313
And i think, jack, uh, he simply said this to the lord
00:15:02.313 --> 00:15:06.250
When he started his baking business,
00:15:06.250 --> 00:15:08.519
I want to honor you, lord.
00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:09.821
So i'll never do anything that goes against your word when it
00:15:09.821 --> 00:15:12.423
Comes to my creative expertise, the gift you've given me.
00:15:12.423 --> 00:15:16.995
So it's not only, uh,
00:15:16.995 --> 00:15:18.830
Marriage or wedding cake for a gay couple that he would not
00:15:19.998 --> 00:15:22.633
Do, but it was also halloween
00:15:22.633 --> 00:15:24.469
Or anything dark he wouldn't do.
00:15:24.469 --> 00:15:26.537
He was being faithful to what he saw as his call.
00:15:26.537 --> 00:15:29.974
He did it with great dignity.
00:15:29.974 --> 00:15:32.110
He said i would sell anybody,
00:15:32.110 --> 00:15:34.645
Gay or straight, anything in my shop.
00:15:34.645 --> 00:15:36.914
I just can't sell them a wedding cake because that goes
00:15:36.914 --> 00:15:39.250
Directly against my understanding of scripture.
00:15:39.250 --> 00:15:43.021
But even with that gentle touch, he was set up not just
00:15:43.021 --> 00:15:46.491
Once, but he's been set up how many times now set up by those
00:15:46.491 --> 00:15:50.628
Who are advocates for those things, coming into the shop
00:15:50.628 --> 00:15:53.197
And targeting him.
00:15:53.197 --> 00:15:55.033
So i think it's his fifth if lawsuit over these last
00:15:55.033 --> 00:15:58.036
13 years where one gay couple after another. transgendered
00:15:58.036 --> 00:16:02.407
Person came in. same kind of situation. they just keep
00:16:02.407 --> 00:16:06.144
Coming back to him to make an example out of him.
00:16:06.144 --> 00:16:10.348
And it's his story about how to remain faithful to the lord.
00:16:10.348 --> 00:16:14.252
Kind in spirit.
00:16:14.252 --> 00:16:15.887
Yeah. this man is a kind man.
00:16:15.887 --> 00:16:17.855
And you may say, well, just bake the cake.
00:16:17.855 --> 00:16:20.358
But that is the point.
00:16:20.358 --> 00:16:21.893
Should we be forced to do
00:16:21.893 --> 00:16:23.161
Something against our religious convictions?
00:16:23.161 --> 00:16:26.230
And the answer is no.
00:16:26.731 --> 00:16:28.332
That i thought was compelling with jack's story was so often
00:16:28.332 --> 00:16:31.903
We think of being in christian ministry as being a pastor or
00:16:31.903 --> 00:16:34.539
Being a speaker.
00:16:34.539 --> 00:16:35.907
But his thing was, no, god has called me to be a baker.
00:16:35.907 --> 00:16:38.743
And so who i am on the inside
00:16:38.743 --> 00:16:40.711
Will come through everything i do.
00:16:40.711 --> 00:16:42.914
Exactly.
00:16:42.914 --> 00:16:43.748
It's even in the name of his shop.
00:16:43.748 --> 00:16:44.816
It's masterpiece cakeshop. oh, it is?
00:16:44.816 --> 00:16:46.984
That's the name of his-- and if you're ever in denver,
00:16:46.984 --> 00:16:49.120
Stop by because it's really good.
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.888
Yeah, he's really, really good.
00:16:50.888 --> 00:16:52.190
Very good.
00:16:52.190 --> 00:16:53.024
And his cakes are custom designed.
00:16:53.024 --> 00:16:55.026
So in his case, it was also being forced to say something
00:16:55.026 --> 00:16:59.263
That he didn't believe in terms of how you decorate the cake
00:16:59.263 --> 00:17:03.067
And use those custom designs.
00:17:03.067 --> 00:17:04.969
But jim's right.
00:17:04.969 --> 00:17:07.205
This ended up being a decades long, a decade long and beyond
00:17:07.205 --> 00:17:13.144
Ordeal where not only did a couple express great
00:17:13.144 --> 00:17:19.617
Displeasure and try to do a lot, but the state of colorado--
00:17:19.617 --> 00:17:22.253
I know that blew me away.
00:17:22.253 --> 00:17:24.255
When you add the government power there, the force, the
00:17:24.255 --> 00:17:28.659
Government entity, and then the government got out of the way
00:17:28.659 --> 00:17:32.630
And then allowed a private citizen to just--
00:17:32.630 --> 00:17:34.265
And there was death threats and there
00:17:34.265 --> 00:17:35.633
Was social pressure and all of that.
00:17:35.633 --> 00:17:37.635
Here's the best part of the story for me, having watched
00:17:37.635 --> 00:17:40.505
This unfold in our own state and with this wonderful man,
00:17:40.505 --> 00:17:45.476
Jack would not go back today and change a thing.
00:17:45.476 --> 00:17:49.113
And you see how god has worked in his heart, the heart of his
00:17:49.113 --> 00:17:52.116
Family and the number of people who have come to christ because
00:17:52.116 --> 00:17:57.488
Of his example, or have been pushed towards christ.
00:17:57.488 --> 00:18:00.791
For example, ayaan hirsi ali, is this one of the stories of
00:18:00.791 --> 00:18:05.496
Courage that we tell in the documentary.
00:18:05.496 --> 00:18:08.032
A dutch parliamentarian whose campaign against radical islam,
00:18:08.032 --> 00:18:13.070
Uh, you know, brings her under great threat.
00:18:13.070 --> 00:18:15.973
And the end she comes to christ
00:18:15.973 --> 00:18:17.608
And she's one of the voices of courage.
00:18:17.608 --> 00:18:19.510
One of the things she points to as pointing her to christ is
00:18:19.510 --> 00:18:24.081
The testimony of the baker.
00:18:24.081 --> 00:18:25.616
That's what she says. oh my gosh.
00:18:25.616 --> 00:18:27.318
There was a connection which we didn't even know going into the
00:18:27.318 --> 00:18:29.687
Project, that there was a connection between these
00:18:29.687 --> 00:18:32.256
Two incredible stories.
00:18:32.256 --> 00:18:34.792
And when you talk to jack about what god has done to use that
00:18:34.792 --> 00:18:39.230
In people's lives like diane or other people who have come
00:18:39.230 --> 00:18:41.899
To christ, you'll see tears come to his eyes.
00:18:41.899 --> 00:18:44.068
He wants people to know the lord, and he did it with an act
00:18:44.068 --> 00:18:48.072
Of courage, and god took it beyond his wildest dreams.
00:18:48.072 --> 00:18:52.009
None of this occurred to me 12 years ago.
00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:54.045
This ripple effect reminds me of, um, a few weeks ago, i was
00:18:54.045 --> 00:18:58.482
Baking some chocolate cake and i took it out of the oven,
00:18:58.482 --> 00:19:01.485
Opened the oven to pull it out, and it had collapsed
00:19:01.485 --> 00:19:04.188
And it never collapses.
00:19:04.188 --> 00:19:05.489
And it's like, there's something wrong with this.
00:19:05.489 --> 00:19:07.592
What do i do? i couldn't figure out what
00:19:07.592 --> 00:19:09.327
I had done wrong, mixing the batter,
00:19:09.327 --> 00:19:11.395
But it was late and i needed it the next day.
00:19:12.330 --> 00:19:14.298
So i made another batch and i pulled it out.
00:19:14.298 --> 00:19:16.367
Same thing.
00:19:16.701 --> 00:19:17.568
Like this is just unusual.
00:19:17.568 --> 00:19:19.503
Well, i had to work with the formula and it came down to
00:19:19.503 --> 00:19:22.240
What i think is i had just gotten a new bag of cocoa
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.309
Powder, 50 pound bag of cocoa
00:19:25.309 --> 00:19:26.944
Powder, same brand, same everything.
00:19:26.944 --> 00:19:29.780
That was the only change.
00:19:29.780 --> 00:19:31.315
So i went, got some cocoa powder, tried it and it worked.
00:19:31.315 --> 00:19:34.952
Okay, so now i need to adjust my formula to fix this.
00:19:34.952 --> 00:19:38.456
And what i did ultimately was in a 35 pound batch of cocoa
00:19:38.456 --> 00:19:43.894
Powder of chocolate cake.
00:19:43.894 --> 00:19:45.496
I added 20g of baking powder.
00:19:45.496 --> 00:19:48.899
Hardly anything in a big bucket.
00:19:48.899 --> 00:19:51.168
It's like a teaspoon or tablespoon.
00:19:51.168 --> 00:19:53.304
But that's what it took.
00:19:53.804 --> 00:19:55.606
But that made me think of my conversation with the two men
00:19:55.606 --> 00:19:59.277
At the very beginning 12 years ago.
00:19:59.277 --> 00:20:01.345
20s long, 20g of baking powder.
00:20:01.345 --> 00:20:05.483
God uses little tiny things to do what he wants to do, and
00:20:05.483 --> 00:20:09.553
It's had a ripple effect.
00:20:09.553 --> 00:20:11.355
I've had a nephew who came to faith in christ because of
00:20:11.355 --> 00:20:14.558
Hearing my story.
00:20:14.558 --> 00:20:15.826
I've heard other people similar stories or taking a stand at
00:20:15.826 --> 00:20:19.563
Their work, changing jobs, changing careers to go into law
00:20:19.563 --> 00:20:25.069
Or to do other things where they now want to defend the
00:20:25.069 --> 00:20:28.306
Rights of people like me in their community.
00:20:28.306 --> 00:20:31.309
And it's just had such an impact. besides
00:20:31.309 --> 00:20:35.012
Hearing ayann's testimony that god has used this in ways that
00:20:36.213 --> 00:20:42.687
The ripple effect did you know people talk about could be a
00:20:42.687 --> 00:20:46.157
Tsunami at the end.
00:20:46.157 --> 00:20:47.291
It could be just affecting so
00:20:47.291 --> 00:20:49.293
Many people, and i'm so grateful
00:20:49.293 --> 00:20:52.897
That he's used us in this small way
00:20:53.698 --> 00:20:56.467
To accomplish what he wants to do.
00:20:57.234 --> 00:20:59.503
My spiritual life, i guess, grew because of this.
00:21:00.538 --> 00:21:04.909
Jesus tells a parable about ten virgins who are getting ready
00:21:04.909 --> 00:21:09.380
For a wedding party. when the call comes that the
00:21:09.380 --> 00:21:12.116
Bridegroom is on the way,
00:21:12.116 --> 00:21:13.884
Five of them get up and they're ready to go.
00:21:13.884 --> 00:21:16.654
Five of them don't have oil for their lamps.
00:21:16.654 --> 00:21:19.123
For me, that's a powerful story, but it also points to
00:21:20.191 --> 00:21:23.561
The fact that all ten of them were asleep
00:21:23.561 --> 00:21:26.397
Before all this legal stuff started.
00:21:27.198 --> 00:21:29.734
I can tell you, i was sleep walking through my faith.
00:21:29.734 --> 00:21:33.037
This has given me the impetus
00:21:33.671 --> 00:21:35.840
Or the courage to share my faith
00:21:35.840 --> 00:21:38.542
Way more frequently than i ever would have before.
00:21:39.577 --> 00:21:42.046
And i've tried to practice how to share my faith in a way that
00:21:42.046 --> 00:21:46.650
Will reach whoever i'm talking to at the time, because it's
00:21:46.650 --> 00:21:49.854
Good news and people want good news these days.
00:21:49.854 --> 00:21:52.423
People don't want to be living
00:21:52.423 --> 00:21:53.858
In the world that we're living in
00:21:53.858 --> 00:21:55.393
That's always telling them everything's going wrong.
00:21:55.393 --> 00:21:57.862
They want good news.
00:21:57.862 --> 00:21:59.163
And that good news is the love that jesus, that god showed us
00:21:59.163 --> 00:22:01.365
Through his son, christ.
00:22:01.365 --> 00:22:03.100
And so we were sleepwalking.
00:22:03.100 --> 00:22:06.537
This case, all this legal stuff woke us up.
00:22:06.537 --> 00:22:10.608
I can tell you that my daughter was saying that if she would
00:22:10.608 --> 00:22:14.979
Have waited on the two men when they came in, it would have
00:22:14.979 --> 00:22:18.549
Been her job. i would have been in the back.
00:22:18.549 --> 00:22:20.451
But they were both, the two girls i had busy working that
00:22:20.451 --> 00:22:23.254
Day were busy doing other things, so it fell to me to
00:22:23.254 --> 00:22:25.556
Come out and help these two men.
00:22:25.556 --> 00:22:28.259
She told me that she would have given them the same answer,
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:31.395
But that's because it's dad's cake shop.
00:22:32.263 --> 00:22:35.766
What do i believe?
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:37.835
And so she started having to study and see what god's word,
00:22:37.835 --> 00:22:41.839
The bible, has to say about these things and came to much
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.376
Stronger convictions and has led bible studies and has
00:22:45.376 --> 00:22:49.580
Had an incredible impact on some of her friends.
00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:53.083
One of her friends
00:22:53.517 --> 00:22:55.586
Found herself with an unwanted pregnancy, was going to go to
00:22:55.586 --> 00:22:59.590
Planned parenthood and take care of it.
00:22:59.590 --> 00:23:02.960
And she said, no, you can't do that.
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.363
Got her to, uh, an alternatives pregnancy center where they
00:23:06.363 --> 00:23:10.267
Took care of her, helped her out, and now she has a little
00:23:10.267 --> 00:23:13.504
Girl who's like, 8 or 9 years old.
00:23:13.504 --> 00:23:16.373
My daughter's testimony helped save that,
00:23:16.373 --> 00:23:19.210
That baby's life.
00:23:19.643 --> 00:23:21.712
Another part of a ripple.
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:24.181
When i watched his story, um, in the documentary truth
00:23:24.181 --> 00:23:27.818
Rising, the thing, the word that came away from me at the
00:23:27.818 --> 00:23:30.554
End was faithful.
00:23:30.554 --> 00:23:31.689
He was just faithful.
00:23:32.189 --> 00:23:33.924
And so often we think, if i'm faithful to god, then i'll get
00:23:33.924 --> 00:23:36.126
A good answer straight away.
00:23:36.126 --> 00:23:37.661
But as you say, it took years.
00:23:37.661 --> 00:23:39.196
It took years.
00:23:39.196 --> 00:23:40.664
He simply did the right thing
00:23:40.664 --> 00:23:42.733
And left the consequences to god.
00:23:42.733 --> 00:23:44.568
I think that's quite a challenge in the days we're
00:23:44.568 --> 00:23:46.370
Living in to do that, that we're called to do, that, we're
00:23:46.370 --> 00:23:49.139
Called to be faithful, not necessarily to understand what
00:23:49.139 --> 00:23:52.943
The outcome is going to be. so true.
00:23:52.943 --> 00:23:54.945
And in the case of seth dillon with babylon b, that answer
00:23:54.945 --> 00:23:58.849
Came quickly.
00:23:58.849 --> 00:23:59.984
When you look at it comparatively, i mean, he was
00:23:59.984 --> 00:24:02.453
He was put in twitter jail and de-platformed.
00:24:02.453 --> 00:24:05.990
And then elon musk reached out to him to say, what happened?
00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:09.894
And then in that conversation, elon says, well, maybe i should
00:24:09.894 --> 00:24:13.163
Just buy it, meaning twitter.
00:24:13.163 --> 00:24:15.499
Now, how many people have a friend that can just buy it
00:24:15.499 --> 00:24:18.002
For $50 billion?
00:24:18.002 --> 00:24:19.904
But, you know, within a couple of months that deal was done.
00:24:19.904 --> 00:24:22.873
And elon calls him back and says, hey, you want back on?
00:24:22.873 --> 00:24:25.876
I get a call from a number we don't know.
00:24:25.876 --> 00:24:28.646
And elon musk, he dug up our number and called and wanted to
00:24:28.646 --> 00:24:33.183
Talk to us about this situation.
00:24:33.183 --> 00:24:34.451
He's like, i heard that you were suspended.
00:24:34.451 --> 00:24:36.654
Why not just delete it to get your account back?
00:24:36.654 --> 00:24:38.656
What's the big deal?
00:24:38.656 --> 00:24:39.523
What's the harm in that.
00:24:39.523 --> 00:24:40.658
And and we explained our rationale there that it's a
00:24:40.658 --> 00:24:44.128
Principle thing, you know, like we have to be willing to stand
00:24:44.128 --> 00:24:46.730
By this and say we should have the right to tell jokes,
00:24:46.730 --> 00:24:50.134
Especially jokes that are that carry the truth in them.
00:24:50.134 --> 00:24:53.270
That should be something that we're allowed to do in the
00:24:53.270 --> 00:24:55.105
Public square.
00:24:55.105 --> 00:24:56.407
And if we're not allowed to do it here, that's a problem that
00:24:56.407 --> 00:24:58.576
Needs to be dealt with.
00:24:58.576 --> 00:24:59.777
And he agreed with that wholeheartedly.
00:24:59.777 --> 00:25:01.245
At the end of the conversation, he closed it out,
00:25:01.245 --> 00:25:02.780
He goes, i might just need to buy twitter.
00:25:02.780 --> 00:25:07.051
From his perspective, comedy should be legal.
00:25:07.985 --> 00:25:10.421
You should be allowed to tell jokes in the public square.
00:25:10.421 --> 00:25:13.357
It's hard to get your hopes up that something like that might
00:25:13.357 --> 00:25:15.793
Happen that the world's richest man might end up bailing you
00:25:15.793 --> 00:25:18.262
Out of twitter jail.
00:25:18.262 --> 00:25:19.463
Finally, he closes the deal.
00:25:19.463 --> 00:25:21.098
And then, uh, his first day as ceo, literally day one,
00:25:21.098 --> 00:25:25.970
He sends me a dm at 4 a.m.
00:25:26.537 --> 00:25:29.440
That said, do you want the babylon be restored?
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.742
There will be no censorship of humor.
00:25:31.742 --> 00:25:33.510
And so the point of that,
00:25:34.078 --> 00:25:35.446
Whether it's relatively immediate
00:25:35.446 --> 00:25:39.483
Or what if it takes a lifetime and you don't hear, our position
00:25:39.483 --> 00:25:43.554
As christians should be to continue to have faithfulness
00:25:43.554 --> 00:25:47.391
In christ, whether it's a week or a hundred years.
00:25:47.391 --> 00:25:51.562
It's i feel like i'm kind of in the middle of a kind of a
00:25:51.562 --> 00:25:54.531
Spiritual wake up call in my own life, because i have loved
00:25:54.531 --> 00:25:57.501
And walked with the lord for many, many years and had the
00:25:57.501 --> 00:25:59.637
Privilege of being involved in ministry.
00:25:59.637 --> 00:26:01.605
But i feel like in these recent days, the lord's kind of given
00:26:01.605 --> 00:26:05.843
Me a wake up call as to, you know, do you really believe?
00:26:05.843 --> 00:26:09.480
I mean, you know, this is the living word of god.
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:11.882
Do you believe every word of this?
00:26:11.882 --> 00:26:13.684
And if you do-- i mean, i think of i've been studying the
00:26:13.684 --> 00:26:17.254
Sermon on the mount.
00:26:17.254 --> 00:26:18.522
Um, just listen to this verse.
00:26:18.522 --> 00:26:20.758
This is matthew 5:13. [reading]
00:26:20.758 --> 00:26:33.637
I think there's something about
00:26:34.271 --> 00:26:36.907
These days, that god is stirring something.
00:26:36.907 --> 00:26:39.443
And i think your documentary is part of that,
00:26:39.443 --> 00:26:42.746
Of that we stand up and simply
00:26:42.746 --> 00:26:46.383
Say who we are and whose we are. so true.
00:26:46.383 --> 00:26:48.552
We don't want to do this just as a documentary, because
00:26:48.552 --> 00:26:51.555
You can see those all day long on netflix.
00:26:51.555 --> 00:26:53.924
What we're aiming for is to ignite a movement and to--
00:26:53.924 --> 00:26:57.561
I think what you're sensing is the same thing i'm sensing is
00:26:57.561 --> 00:27:00.664
Probably what you're sensing,
00:27:00.664 --> 00:27:01.598
John, what listeners are sensing.
00:27:01.598 --> 00:27:03.934
And that is it feels like the lord is on the move.
00:27:03.934 --> 00:27:07.471
Yeah. like the, um,
00:27:07.471 --> 00:27:10.708
The things that have been tried by those that don't know the
00:27:10.708 --> 00:27:13.310
Lord are not working.
00:27:13.310 --> 00:27:14.712
In fact, in the film, i believe it was john anderson from
00:27:14.712 --> 00:27:17.514
Australia, one of the former, uh, pm's, he said the engines of
00:27:17.514 --> 00:27:22.252
Democracy work. we're putting the wrong fuel into them.
00:27:22.252 --> 00:27:26.623
Wow. what a profound analogy.
00:27:26.623 --> 00:27:29.093
He said, it's like my diesel truck.
00:27:29.093 --> 00:27:30.527
When i put regular gas in it, it stopped running. when i put
00:27:30.527 --> 00:27:33.997
The diesel back in, it started running again.
00:27:33.997 --> 00:27:36.333
And you know, democracies need things like laws based on truth
00:27:36.333 --> 00:27:40.904
And righteousness.
00:27:40.904 --> 00:27:42.206
You know, the lord gives one command for government,
00:27:42.206 --> 00:27:45.175
One of the institutions he decreed,
00:27:45.175 --> 00:27:47.177
Right. and he says the number one role of government is to
00:27:47.177 --> 00:27:52.282
Restrain evil, not to unleash it.
00:27:52.282 --> 00:27:56.487
And this is the contradiction that we're in today.
00:27:56.487 --> 00:27:59.556
But the answer is what you just read.
00:27:59.556 --> 00:28:02.693
I remember chuck colson saying this over and over and over,
00:28:02.693 --> 00:28:05.129
That the most important thing the world needed right now is
00:28:05.129 --> 00:28:07.231
For the church to be the church.
00:28:07.231 --> 00:28:08.766
Yeah. and sometimes we spend an awful lot of time talking about
00:28:08.766 --> 00:28:11.401
How the world is the world.
00:28:11.401 --> 00:28:12.970
That's what the world's going to do.
00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:14.371
Yeah. um, and the question is, is are we living into our
00:28:14.371 --> 00:28:19.243
Calling into this moment right now?
00:28:19.243 --> 00:28:21.345
Are we the salt, or have we lost our saltiness?
00:28:21.345 --> 00:28:23.847
Are we the light that's on the hill?
00:28:23.847 --> 00:28:25.949
Or are we trying to hide what is, uh, what is true because of
00:28:25.949 --> 00:28:29.720
The social pressure or the cost.
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:32.256
The stories tell us that you can be courageous and that god
00:28:32.256 --> 00:28:36.226
Is still at work, and the overall documentary puts that
00:28:36.226 --> 00:28:40.731
Courage in the context of a remarkable moment in human
00:28:40.731 --> 00:28:44.635
History that we're in.
00:28:44.635 --> 00:28:46.003
What an opportunity the church has right now.
00:28:46.003 --> 00:28:49.273
I hope you hear that in your own heart.
00:28:49.273 --> 00:28:50.908
And that's why we're doing this week, why we feel this
00:28:50.908 --> 00:28:53.644
Documentary is, is so important that it's not an accident that
00:28:53.644 --> 00:28:58.081
You're watching this program tonight.
00:28:58.081 --> 00:29:00.083
It's not an accident that you're on the earth at this
00:29:00.083 --> 00:29:01.819
Particular time, and you are not insignificant.
00:29:01.819 --> 00:29:05.189
I think so many times we think that we don't have a voice and
00:29:05.189 --> 00:29:08.058
We don't have, you know, we can't really make an impact.
00:29:08.058 --> 00:29:11.595
But honestly, it's amazing what god will do with anybody who
00:29:11.595 --> 00:29:16.233
Simply says yes to him.
00:29:16.233 --> 00:29:17.968
One of the reasons i, i have this tattoo that says
00:29:17.968 --> 00:29:21.238
Yes, lord on my--
00:29:21.238 --> 00:29:22.472
And it was because i read this book by-- who used to be
00:29:22.472 --> 00:29:25.843
Secretary of the united nations? dag hammarskjold.
00:29:25.843 --> 00:29:29.580
When he passed, they had, um, in his new york apartment.
00:29:30.714 --> 00:29:35.519
There was a notebook, and in it he'd scribbled all sorts of
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.889
Things about his journey with christ.
00:29:38.889 --> 00:29:41.091
And it's actually been published after his death.
00:29:41.091 --> 00:29:43.160
It's called markings. i have a copy.
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:44.728
It's phenomenal. but one of the things
00:29:44.728 --> 00:29:46.330
That he said, for everything that has been,
00:29:46.330 --> 00:29:49.800
Thank you, and for everything that will be, yes.
00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:53.070
And i remember reading that, and i found it so
00:29:53.070 --> 00:29:56.273
Profound that i wrote it in the back of my bible.
00:29:56.273 --> 00:29:58.008
But i was like, lord, i don't know if i can say that, for
00:29:58.008 --> 00:30:00.811
Everything that has been, thank you.
00:30:00.811 --> 00:30:03.180
Like, thank you that my dad died by suicide.
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:05.549
Thank you that, you know, all this.
00:30:05.549 --> 00:30:07.184
And for everything that will be, yes. what will that mean?
00:30:07.184 --> 00:30:10.754
You know, my mom's favorite scripture was, i know the plans
00:30:10.754 --> 00:30:13.023
I have for you, says the lord.
00:30:13.023 --> 00:30:14.224
And i used to say, i would just like to see the plans.
00:30:14.224 --> 00:30:16.193
If i could make a few suggestions, i'll sign off
00:30:16.193 --> 00:30:18.262
On the plans. that's good.
00:30:18.262 --> 00:30:19.997
But i realized the problem was not with god.
00:30:19.997 --> 00:30:22.766
The problem was with me.
00:30:22.766 --> 00:30:23.934
Once i got to know him better,
00:30:24.568 --> 00:30:26.503
That became my prayer for two years.
00:30:27.271 --> 00:30:29.640
And once i got to know how good god is, how kind god is, how
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:34.211
Faithful god is, how loving god is,
00:30:34.211 --> 00:30:37.047
Every morning that i wake up,
00:30:37.047 --> 00:30:39.683
First words out of my mouth to the lord are, yes, lord.
00:30:39.683 --> 00:30:43.053
I don't know what i'm saying yes to, but i know who
00:30:43.053 --> 00:30:45.489
I am saying yes to.
00:30:45.489 --> 00:30:47.157
Daily life in the cake shop changed quite a bit from before
00:30:47.157 --> 00:30:50.327
All the legal stuff.
00:30:50.327 --> 00:30:51.595
We were not able to settle into a routine.
00:30:51.595 --> 00:30:53.931
You get up in the morning, you come to the shop and you know,
00:30:53.931 --> 00:30:56.934
You don't know what to expect.
00:30:56.934 --> 00:30:58.969
I just want to, you know, greet my customers, treat them
00:30:58.969 --> 00:31:02.339
Graciously, find out what they need.
00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:04.708
Um, when we open the shop, i decided what i wanted to open
00:31:04.708 --> 00:31:08.612
Was a cake shop, that i could use cakes as a canvas to help
00:31:08.612 --> 00:31:12.349
People celebrate important events.
00:31:12.349 --> 00:31:14.151
And now, after this, i've got people coming in asking for
00:31:14.151 --> 00:31:18.255
Cakes that aren't legitimate.
00:31:18.255 --> 00:31:20.123
I've never had a call like any of these before.
00:31:20.123 --> 00:31:22.359
We're in the birthday business, party business.
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.695
We want to create cakes that
00:31:24.695 --> 00:31:26.563
Help people celebrate special occasions.
00:31:26.563 --> 00:31:28.565
And the worst that could happen is you miss the mark.
00:31:28.565 --> 00:31:31.368
But in this one, i'm getting accused of all kinds of things.
00:31:31.368 --> 00:31:35.038
Uh, death threats. had a gentleman called me and say,
00:31:35.038 --> 00:31:38.575
You know, i'm coming to your shop, i've got a gun, and i'm
00:31:38.575 --> 00:31:41.411
Going to blow your head off.
00:31:41.411 --> 00:31:43.547
Hangs up, calls right back, tells me what street he's on.
00:31:43.547 --> 00:31:47.718
You know, take me this long to get here, and i'm going to come
00:31:47.718 --> 00:31:50.053
And blow your head off.
00:31:50.053 --> 00:31:51.321
Like that's never happened before.
00:31:51.321 --> 00:31:54.324
So my daughter was in the back, and so i went and told her
00:31:54.324 --> 00:31:57.694
About this call and, and said, i'm going to go call the
00:31:57.694 --> 00:32:00.330
Police and make sure that nothing happens.
00:32:00.330 --> 00:32:03.367
So the policeman showed up. the caller kept calling.
00:32:03.367 --> 00:32:06.636
I'm this close. i'll be there in this much time.
00:32:06.636 --> 00:32:08.638
And i don't know if he ever showed up or not, or if he
00:32:08.638 --> 00:32:10.540
Pulled up and saw the police car in front of our shop and
00:32:10.540 --> 00:32:13.276
Thought that-- thought better of it.
00:32:13.276 --> 00:32:14.911
But you just can't expect something like that from just
00:32:14.911 --> 00:32:18.749
Trying to live by your faith.
00:32:18.749 --> 00:32:20.050
And that's one that i remember clearly, because it was one of
00:32:20.050 --> 00:32:22.753
The first that was like legitimate.
00:32:22.753 --> 00:32:25.055
But there were also just hokey phone calls that i'm going to
00:32:25.055 --> 00:32:28.825
Come and, you know, chop you up with a machete.
00:32:28.825 --> 00:32:31.628
Were they legitimate? i don't know.
00:32:31.628 --> 00:32:34.031
I know the one sounded legitimate, and there were some
00:32:34.031 --> 00:32:37.501
That i just couldn't take as serious.
00:32:37.501 --> 00:32:40.771
We had four protests that i know of.
00:32:40.771 --> 00:32:43.540
One of them, our parking lot was filled with a couple of
00:32:43.540 --> 00:32:47.077
Hundred people, but i dealt with it pretty easily, i think,
00:32:47.077 --> 00:32:49.913
Because i believe in a god who is sovereign over everything,
00:32:49.913 --> 00:32:53.016
And that means everything.
00:32:53.016 --> 00:32:54.851
And we took trays of cookies out and passed them out to all
00:32:54.851 --> 00:32:58.955
The people that were out there.
00:32:58.955 --> 00:32:59.856
And the people who were
00:32:59.856 --> 00:33:00.791
Protesting us refused to take cookies.
00:33:00.791 --> 00:33:02.793
So i guess that's up to them.
00:33:02.793 --> 00:33:04.661
But we tried to be gracious and kind to everybody.
00:33:04.661 --> 00:33:08.265
Most of the people who showed up were here to support us, so
00:33:08.265 --> 00:33:11.268
That was really encouraging and
00:33:11.268 --> 00:33:12.803
Hopefully we encourage them as well.
00:33:12.803 --> 00:33:14.638
I remember one day my wife called me and as i walked in
00:33:14.638 --> 00:33:17.874
The door and she said, well, is there any graffiti there?
00:33:17.874 --> 00:33:20.444
I said, no, but channel two's outside.
00:33:20.444 --> 00:33:23.980
So filming stuff and doing
00:33:23.980 --> 00:33:26.650
Interviews that became part of life.
00:33:26.650 --> 00:33:30.020
Crazy things.
00:33:30.387 --> 00:33:31.621
But also people coming to show support and just come in
00:33:31.621 --> 00:33:34.825
And say hello.
00:33:34.825 --> 00:33:36.193
I'm not sure when people started coming in, you know,
00:33:36.193 --> 00:33:38.795
To support us like that, other than like from the very first
00:33:38.795 --> 00:33:41.665
Day when people came to encourage us.
00:33:41.665 --> 00:33:44.835
But we do have a book that we started people signing it, and
00:33:44.835 --> 00:33:48.905
We've had people now from 50 different countries and all 50
00:33:48.905 --> 00:33:52.209
States that have come to support us physically in the
00:33:52.209 --> 00:33:55.779
Shop, and that's really encouraging.
00:33:55.779 --> 00:33:58.048
It's just so cool to think that somebody is on vacation and
00:33:58.048 --> 00:34:01.785
They take their time to come and say hello and thank you for,
00:34:01.785 --> 00:34:05.889
Say thank you for what we've done and and to encourage us.
00:34:05.889 --> 00:34:09.526
And we in turn try and encourage them.
00:34:09.526 --> 00:34:13.096
My family is all grown stronger because of this, and we've all
00:34:13.096 --> 00:34:17.367
Grown because of it.
00:34:17.367 --> 00:34:18.802
Um, but there were times where we had to encourage one
00:34:18.802 --> 00:34:22.272
Another, i suppose, and reassure each other that
00:34:22.272 --> 00:34:25.375
This is god's fight. this is not our fight.
00:34:25.375 --> 00:34:28.044
He's in control.
00:34:28.044 --> 00:34:29.212
We just obey and do what he needs us to do.
00:34:29.212 --> 00:34:32.115
Everybody's on board with that. the whole family.
00:34:32.115 --> 00:34:34.651
It has been an incredible blessing to have my grandkids
00:34:34.651 --> 00:34:38.388
Who are homeschooled sometimes right here in the shop,
00:34:38.388 --> 00:34:41.558
A good part of their homeschooling happens right
00:34:41.558 --> 00:34:43.360
Here in the cake shop,
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:44.761
To see their interest in government, civics, those kind
00:34:44.761 --> 00:34:48.565
Of things and have a, i think, a clearer understanding of what
00:34:48.565 --> 00:34:52.636
The constitution means, what the separation of powers is all
00:34:52.636 --> 00:34:55.539
About, and the checks and balances.
00:34:55.539 --> 00:34:58.308
And in our last case, my oldest granddaughter expressed an
00:34:58.308 --> 00:35:02.612
Interest in going.
00:35:02.612 --> 00:35:03.914
So all three of them got to go and watch what actually happens
00:35:03.914 --> 00:35:06.449
In the court.
00:35:06.449 --> 00:35:07.684
Like i was explaining, the attorney gets up, the justices
00:35:07.684 --> 00:35:10.654
Ask questions, and they have to
00:35:10.654 --> 00:35:11.555
Be able to explain the case to them,
00:35:11.555 --> 00:35:15.258
Answer completely, compellingly, convincingly,
00:35:15.258 --> 00:35:18.261
Clearly and go to the next question and see how it's
00:35:18.261 --> 00:35:22.165
Supposed to work.
00:35:22.165 --> 00:35:23.533
And in this case, i think it did.
00:35:23.533 --> 00:35:25.535
It has led to a lot of interesting discussions,
00:35:25.535 --> 00:35:27.704
Discussions about what our faith means to us and what do
00:35:27.704 --> 00:35:30.807
We do if this situation comes up or that situation, or how
00:35:30.807 --> 00:35:33.743
Can we pass this information on to the kids and the grandkids
00:35:33.743 --> 00:35:37.447
And to our friends?
00:35:37.447 --> 00:35:38.548
And how can we encourage them using this situation?
00:35:38.548 --> 00:35:42.385
Well, the day-to-day basis around here, we never know
00:35:42.385 --> 00:35:44.554
What to expect.
00:35:44.554 --> 00:35:45.722
But we do know that god expects us and empowers us to be
00:35:45.722 --> 00:35:49.392
Faithful to him.
00:35:49.392 --> 00:35:50.694
So that's what we want to do, no matter who comes in the door
00:35:50.694 --> 00:35:52.896
Or who calls us on the phone,
00:35:52.896 --> 00:35:54.397
What kind of cake they order,
00:35:54.397 --> 00:35:56.099
Or how they want to treat us or whatever,
00:35:56.099 --> 00:35:58.635
We want to be faithful and gracious and show god's love.
00:35:58.635 --> 00:36:01.838
So day to day, that's that's our duty.
00:36:02.672 --> 00:36:06.676
What's your prayer for this documentary?
00:36:06.676 --> 00:36:09.579
Oh, you know, again, i think it would be to create a movement,
00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:13.049
A stirring in the spirit of every christian to do the
00:36:13.049 --> 00:36:16.786
Simple things well.
00:36:16.786 --> 00:36:17.954
You know, just be faithful and be ready to go.
00:36:17.954 --> 00:36:21.625
Nobody starts out thinking they're going to the supreme
00:36:21.625 --> 00:36:24.227
Court or they're going to have a big moment.
00:36:24.227 --> 00:36:26.730
That's not, that's not who we are.
00:36:26.730 --> 00:36:28.865
But that simple measurement, that simple step of faith, can
00:36:28.865 --> 00:36:32.636
Put you in some very awkward moments.
00:36:32.636 --> 00:36:35.972
And you have to decide, are you just going to be quiet and
00:36:35.972 --> 00:36:38.608
Slither away, or are you going to stand boldly, kindly,
00:36:38.608 --> 00:36:43.747
Gently, with gentleness, which we can do?
00:36:43.747 --> 00:36:46.182
We can be both love and truth.
00:36:46.182 --> 00:36:48.051
Yeah. and to do that well,
00:36:48.051 --> 00:36:49.286
And i think that'll make the difference.
00:36:49.286 --> 00:36:51.354
You know, this whole thing
00:36:51.354 --> 00:36:52.789
Started with jesus and 12 disciples.
00:36:52.789 --> 00:36:56.760
So they accomplished it through the power of the holy spirit.
00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:59.796
Three miles a day-- what can you do with--
00:36:59.796 --> 00:37:01.731
Was as far as he was able to go.
00:37:01.731 --> 00:37:02.832
Yeah, 2 billion people who claim to know christ.
00:37:02.832 --> 00:37:05.135
I'd say the hope here is that people will deepen their faith
00:37:05.135 --> 00:37:08.705
In christ, know the word, and then apply it, even if it
00:37:08.705 --> 00:37:12.942
Costs you your life.
00:37:12.942 --> 00:37:14.144
Yeah. when i think of that, i think of i think it's
00:37:14.144 --> 00:37:18.515
First peter where it says, always be ready to give a
00:37:18.515 --> 00:37:21.318
Reason for the hope that is within you.
00:37:21.318 --> 00:37:23.787
I think when our lives demand an explanation that that's what
00:37:23.787 --> 00:37:27.157
People are looking for.
00:37:27.157 --> 00:37:28.291
We live in a time in our culture where people are so
00:37:28.291 --> 00:37:30.627
Disillusioned with things.
00:37:30.627 --> 00:37:32.362
But when you and i and you, when we make choices that say
00:37:32.362 --> 00:37:36.499
Yes to god, i think that's when if we're not living lives that
00:37:36.499 --> 00:37:40.170
Raise questions, we have to question that.
00:37:40.170 --> 00:37:42.372
Think of the culture we're in right now.
00:37:42.372 --> 00:37:44.441
I mean, i have a 24-year-old son and a 22-year-old son, and
00:37:44.441 --> 00:37:47.977
I talk to their friends.
00:37:47.977 --> 00:37:49.713
And you think we are in a land that most of your needs
00:37:49.713 --> 00:37:52.549
Are met, right?
00:37:52.549 --> 00:37:54.084
And many of your wants are met.
00:37:54.084 --> 00:37:55.919
Yet this generation is so desperate, they don't know
00:37:55.919 --> 00:37:59.789
Their identity.
00:37:59.789 --> 00:38:01.091
They are, you know, the levels of depression and anxiety are
00:38:01.091 --> 00:38:05.829
Sky high from the time they begin measuring these things.
00:38:05.829 --> 00:38:09.299
So at a point of plenty from a worldly standpoint,
00:38:09.299 --> 00:38:12.969
Our tanks are empty.
00:38:12.969 --> 00:38:15.071
And i think one of the things for the church to be mindful
00:38:15.071 --> 00:38:18.508
Of, to not fall in that trap, is do something different.
00:38:18.508 --> 00:38:23.146
Don't just watch tv tonight.
00:38:23.146 --> 00:38:25.148
Do something that encourages your faith.
00:38:25.148 --> 00:38:27.217
Reach out to somebody.
00:38:27.217 --> 00:38:28.251
Take care of somebody.
00:38:28.251 --> 00:38:29.219
Get involved in foster care.
00:38:29.219 --> 00:38:31.254
Do something that helps another person.
00:38:31.254 --> 00:38:34.524
And to your point, you will see the lord move.
00:38:34.524 --> 00:38:37.794
Yes.
00:38:37.794 --> 00:38:39.262
When you step out with action to do something.
00:38:39.262 --> 00:38:42.599
I saw that in my mom's life because she'd been a widow
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:44.534
Since she was 33, never remarried, and her prayer was
00:38:44.534 --> 00:38:48.104
Just that she would see all three of us grown up serving
00:38:48.104 --> 00:38:50.273
The lord and in our calling.
00:38:50.273 --> 00:38:52.342
And when my brother was the final one to finish as an
00:38:52.342 --> 00:38:54.644
Architect and graduate, i flew home to scotland and i sat down
00:38:54.644 --> 00:38:57.547
With her and i said, okay, i'm here to dream with you for the
00:38:57.547 --> 00:39:00.283
Rest of your life.
00:39:00.283 --> 00:39:01.418
And she said, what are you talking about?
00:39:01.418 --> 00:39:03.119
I said, mom, you had two prayers.
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:04.621
God said to them, you've still got a pulse.
00:39:04.621 --> 00:39:06.823
There's not a white chalk mark
00:39:06.823 --> 00:39:07.957
Around your body, so you're not done.
00:39:07.957 --> 00:39:10.226
What have you always dreamt of?
00:39:10.226 --> 00:39:11.761
And she ended up hosting a bible study in her home.
00:39:11.761 --> 00:39:15.064
And at first she was like, i can't do it.
00:39:15.064 --> 00:39:16.866
Will you do the first one?
00:39:16.866 --> 00:39:17.834
And i'm like, no, mom, i'll make the tea.
00:39:17.834 --> 00:39:20.069
But this is a dream that god's put in your heart.
00:39:20.069 --> 00:39:22.472
And to watch my widowed mother living in a very small income.
00:39:22.472 --> 00:39:27.143
To watch her little living room become holy ground was amazing.
00:39:27.143 --> 00:39:31.147
Yeah.
00:39:31.147 --> 00:39:32.415
And when she called me to tell me she'd just led her first
00:39:32.415 --> 00:39:33.783
Neighbor to christ, it was like, yeah, that's the lord.
00:39:33.783 --> 00:39:36.319
I think the enemy of our soul wins when we become inactive.
00:39:36.319 --> 00:39:39.789
Yeah. because what can the lord
00:39:39.789 --> 00:39:41.257
Do with just a blob sitting there?
00:39:41.257 --> 00:39:43.259
Yeah. we've got to be active don't you think?
00:39:43.259 --> 00:39:45.395
I mean, that's success for the project is that christians lean
00:39:45.395 --> 00:39:48.364
In to understanding their calling and what it means to
00:39:48.364 --> 00:39:52.068
Follow the lord and be someone who advances what's good,
00:39:52.068 --> 00:39:55.371
Someone who opposes what's evil, someone who innovates and
00:39:55.371 --> 00:39:58.975
Contributes things that the world needs, and someone who
00:39:58.975 --> 00:40:02.512
Can help restore and bring restoration to brokenness.
00:40:02.512 --> 00:40:05.815
I mean, it's not like the opportunities aren't there in
00:40:05.815 --> 00:40:08.451
Every sphere of influence.
00:40:08.451 --> 00:40:10.119
And that's one of the challenges, is when you watch a
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:12.188
Film like truth rising that deals with kind of culture
00:40:12.188 --> 00:40:14.757
At such a global level, we can forget that really, culture is
00:40:14.757 --> 00:40:18.828
Made up of cultures.
00:40:18.828 --> 00:40:20.096
There's a lot of individual areas of influence and spheres
00:40:20.096 --> 00:40:24.267
That we have access to, and the challenge is that we bring
00:40:24.267 --> 00:40:28.271
Redemption to our little corner of the world.
00:40:28.271 --> 00:40:32.208
I'm always moved thinking about when paul says in second
00:40:32.208 --> 00:40:36.212
Corinthians five that anyone is in christ is a new creation,
00:40:36.212 --> 00:40:40.517
And that someone who's been made a new creation has been
00:40:40.517 --> 00:40:43.152
Reconciled to god, and now he's
00:40:43.152 --> 00:40:44.954
Been made a minister of reconciliation.
00:40:44.954 --> 00:40:47.290
So really, if you ask me, what is success for the project,
00:40:47.290 --> 00:40:51.160
It's that there would be a movement of christians who
00:40:51.160 --> 00:40:54.430
Become ministers of reconciliation.
00:40:54.430 --> 00:40:56.799
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:40:56.799 --> 00:40:58.134
I knew that there was another case brewing against me,
00:40:58.134 --> 00:41:02.105
Because the day that the us supreme court granted our case,
00:41:02.105 --> 00:41:05.608
An attorney, an activist attorney here in colorado
00:41:05.608 --> 00:41:09.078
Called and asked us if we could create a cake that was pink on
00:41:09.078 --> 00:41:12.382
The inside and blue on the outside, and that those colors
00:41:12.382 --> 00:41:15.385
Were symbolic to celebrate
00:41:15.385 --> 00:41:17.654
Changing gender from male to female.
00:41:17.654 --> 00:41:20.356
So we told this attorney that we would be happy to create
00:41:20.356 --> 00:41:23.993
Other cakes for them, other custom cakes.
00:41:23.993 --> 00:41:25.662
But we couldn't create that cake because it expressed a
00:41:25.662 --> 00:41:28.197
Message that went against our faith.
00:41:28.197 --> 00:41:30.366
And that attorney had filed a complaint with the colorado
00:41:30.366 --> 00:41:33.369
Civil rights commission, and that was in the background
00:41:33.369 --> 00:41:36.005
Through all of this.
00:41:36.005 --> 00:41:37.507
So even though we had this wonderful victory from the us
00:41:37.507 --> 00:41:40.043
Supreme court, still wondering what's going to happen with
00:41:40.043 --> 00:41:42.845
This complaint that we knew was there.
00:41:42.845 --> 00:41:44.414
And three weeks later, the commission took up that
00:41:44.414 --> 00:41:46.416
Complaint and sued us again.
00:41:46.416 --> 00:41:49.152
So we call that masterpiece two.
00:41:49.152 --> 00:41:51.788
The first one, masterpiece one.
00:41:51.788 --> 00:41:53.590
Then masterpiece two.
00:41:53.590 --> 00:41:54.724
I was feeling targeted.
00:41:55.224 --> 00:41:56.593
But the attorney who called and requested that cake made that
00:41:56.593 --> 00:42:00.129
Clear, that this cake was intentional.
00:42:00.129 --> 00:42:03.533
And the attorney who sued us made it clear that that cake
00:42:03.533 --> 00:42:06.903
Was designed to correct the errors of my thinking.
00:42:06.903 --> 00:42:10.373
It came out of the blue when it was dismissed.
00:42:11.274 --> 00:42:14.277
Um, i was ready to be deposed.
00:42:14.277 --> 00:42:16.746
Which means for a layman out there, that means that the
00:42:16.746 --> 00:42:21.017
Other side has seven hours to ask me anything, and i have to
00:42:21.017 --> 00:42:25.254
Answer every question, and they're going to try and make
00:42:25.254 --> 00:42:29.092
Me twist my words or do whatever they can so that they
00:42:29.092 --> 00:42:32.095
Have the upper hand going into trial.
00:42:32.095 --> 00:42:34.764
I was sitting at the conference table with my attorneys from
00:42:34.764 --> 00:42:38.668
Atf on this side, the opposing attorneys on that side, and
00:42:38.668 --> 00:42:41.671
Court reporters ready to go.
00:42:41.671 --> 00:42:44.307
And the attorneys from colorado
00:42:44.307 --> 00:42:47.944
Said, we need to have a meeting.
00:42:47.944 --> 00:42:50.113
And they excuse the court reporters and said that they
00:42:50.113 --> 00:42:54.217
Were willing to dismiss this case.
00:42:54.217 --> 00:42:56.786
This wasn't the vehicle they wanted to use is the quote that
00:42:56.786 --> 00:42:59.288
I remember. at the time we were suing the colorado civil rights
00:42:59.288 --> 00:43:04.427
Commission in federal court because of their relentless
00:43:04.427 --> 00:43:07.864
Suits against us.
00:43:07.864 --> 00:43:09.232
And they said that if they dismiss their case, our case
00:43:09.232 --> 00:43:13.369
Could be dismissed as well in federal court.
00:43:13.369 --> 00:43:15.505
And so they all just kind of went away.
00:43:15.505 --> 00:43:17.807
And so suddenly it's done. not quite
00:43:17.807 --> 00:43:23.246
Because after they dismissed it, the attorney who was
00:43:23.246 --> 00:43:25.648
Responsible for filing the charges with the state of
00:43:25.648 --> 00:43:28.718
Colorado waited for over 90 days and then filed a
00:43:28.718 --> 00:43:32.755
Civil lawsuit against me. so masterpiece three.
00:43:32.755 --> 00:43:37.260
It lasted up until this october,
00:43:37.894 --> 00:43:40.630
October the 8th. we worked our way through the district court
00:43:40.630 --> 00:43:43.733
Of colorado, colorado court of appeals, and then to the state
00:43:43.733 --> 00:43:46.936
Supreme court, where just october the 8th, the state
00:43:46.936 --> 00:43:49.639
Supreme court dismissed the charges, dismissed the case.
00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:53.843
They ruled that between masterpiece two and masterpiece
00:43:53.843 --> 00:43:57.680
Three, the attorney who filed the complaint into and sued me
00:43:57.680 --> 00:44:01.718
In three, was required to appeal the dismissal.
00:44:01.718 --> 00:44:04.887
When they dismissed case number two. the state supreme court
00:44:04.887 --> 00:44:09.358
Recognized that that this step had to be taken.
00:44:09.358 --> 00:44:13.162
When i say it, it sounds like they didn't put the stamp on
00:44:13.162 --> 00:44:15.998
Right side up on an envelope or something.
00:44:15.998 --> 00:44:17.867
But no, it was a major thing that the other side was
00:44:17.867 --> 00:44:20.870
Required to do. i'm not in court.
00:44:20.870 --> 00:44:23.539
And there's, the other side
00:44:23.539 --> 00:44:25.475
Can't appeal that dismissal in the state supreme court.
00:44:25.475 --> 00:44:28.544
And so right now, for the first time, basically in 12+ years,
00:44:28.544 --> 00:44:32.982
I'm not being sued.
00:44:32.982 --> 00:44:34.984
It's still sinking in because i still have to deal with the
00:44:36.185 --> 00:44:39.889
Court issues.
00:44:39.889 --> 00:44:41.190
And, you know, people coming in and trying to encourage them,
00:44:41.190 --> 00:44:43.826
Trying to explain to them why this is a good system, why it
00:44:43.826 --> 00:44:47.263
Was a great decision.
00:44:47.263 --> 00:44:48.765
I think, um, that god gave us the system that we have, kind
00:44:48.765 --> 00:44:53.770
Of like he gave the law to israel.
00:44:53.770 --> 00:44:56.139
And paul says in galatians, i think that the law was a tutor
00:44:56.139 --> 00:45:00.209
In order to teach us how sinful
00:45:00.209 --> 00:45:02.245
We are and how much we need a savior.
00:45:02.245 --> 00:45:04.080
He gave us our constitution to show us
00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:06.315
The best system you can come up with is still going to fall
00:45:06.315 --> 00:45:09.152
Short because of sinful people.
00:45:09.152 --> 00:45:11.521
And so it points us to him, our need for him to be the one
00:45:11.521 --> 00:45:15.792
Who rules our lives.
00:45:15.792 --> 00:45:17.326
And we do that personally, and we do it in our families.
00:45:17.326 --> 00:45:19.095
We do it in our communities.
00:45:19.095 --> 00:45:20.263
Then we have a better nation, one that exalts him.
00:45:20.263 --> 00:45:23.065
I love that last conversation that jesus had on on the mount
00:45:23.065 --> 00:45:26.335
Of olives with his, that olivet discourse where he's talking.
00:45:26.335 --> 00:45:29.105
He tells them the story of a master going away, and he
00:45:29.105 --> 00:45:32.608
Leaves one servant with five talents, one with two,
00:45:32.608 --> 00:45:35.278
And one with one.
00:45:35.278 --> 00:45:36.913
And when he comes back, the thing that blew me away was the
00:45:36.913 --> 00:45:39.482
One who had five who made ten,
00:45:39.482 --> 00:45:41.918
You know, jesus says, well done, good and faithful servant.
00:45:41.918 --> 00:45:44.754
Enter into the joy prepared.
00:45:44.754 --> 00:45:46.389
The one with two has four, which is six less than the other guy.
00:45:46.389 --> 00:45:50.560
Jesus has exactly the same thing to him,
00:45:50.560 --> 00:45:53.729
Well done, good and faithful servant.
00:45:53.729 --> 00:45:55.698
So to me god has put something in every single one of our
00:45:55.698 --> 00:45:59.035
Hands, and that's all he'll ask.
00:45:59.035 --> 00:46:00.903
What have you done with what i gave you?
00:46:00.903 --> 00:46:02.972
And to some, he's given incredible things.
00:46:02.972 --> 00:46:04.874
Incredible platforms.
00:46:04.874 --> 00:46:06.042
Yeah, use it for the lord.
00:46:06.042 --> 00:46:07.610
But whatever the lord has put
00:46:07.610 --> 00:46:09.078
In your hands, that's how we'll hear,
00:46:09.078 --> 00:46:11.447
Well done, good and faithful servant.
00:46:11.447 --> 00:46:12.782
Yeah. and just don't bury it.
00:46:12.782 --> 00:46:14.584
Don't bury it. no. which is the point, right?
00:46:14.584 --> 00:46:16.719
I know, don't go bury it, because that's not what
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:18.788
The lord rewarded.
00:46:18.788 --> 00:46:20.323
Yeah. he rewarded action.
00:46:20.323 --> 00:46:22.625
What's interesting,
00:46:22.625 --> 00:46:23.593
The third servant returned to the master
00:46:23.593 --> 00:46:25.895
Everything that the master had
00:46:25.895 --> 00:46:27.063
Given him, he didn't lose anything.
00:46:27.063 --> 00:46:28.497
Yeah, but that wasn't enough. no.
00:46:28.497 --> 00:46:30.399
And to see our lives as gifts of god, uh, and our
00:46:30.399 --> 00:46:34.537
Salvation as renewed lives of god's gift that are to bring
00:46:34.537 --> 00:46:39.342
Blessing to the world around us. yeah.
00:46:39.342 --> 00:46:41.344
You know, sheila, the other thing is we can over complicate
00:46:41.344 --> 00:46:43.746
Everything. be faithful, move out and let the lord lead.
00:46:43.746 --> 00:46:48.551
And i think if you can do that, the lord will use you.
00:46:48.551 --> 00:46:52.288
Yeah. and you've said this before on other occasions, jim.
00:46:52.288 --> 00:46:55.625
But you're so right. we need to know the word of god.
00:46:55.625 --> 00:46:58.995
You know, i think you know, when it talks-- people perish
00:46:58.995 --> 00:47:01.030
For lack of knowledge.
00:47:01.030 --> 00:47:02.098
We need to know what god's word actually says.
00:47:02.098 --> 00:47:03.933
And it's one of the things i love that the colson center
00:47:03.933 --> 00:47:06.435
Does, that you have a heart to educate believers into how to
00:47:06.435 --> 00:47:11.240
Live in this world.
00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:12.675
How do people get in touch with you?
00:47:12.675 --> 00:47:14.410
Yeah. well, the colson center's website is colsoncenter.org.
00:47:14.410 --> 00:47:17.380
And i mean, there's various resources, podcasts
00:47:17.380 --> 00:47:19.849
And so on there every day
00:47:19.849 --> 00:47:21.884
But it really reflects the heart of chuck colson, the
00:47:21.884 --> 00:47:25.221
Great christian leader of the last generation, who really
00:47:25.221 --> 00:47:29.058
Wanted to see the church be the church.
00:47:29.058 --> 00:47:31.093
That was his line. i always loved that line,
00:47:31.093 --> 00:47:32.795
Let the church be the church.
00:47:32.795 --> 00:47:34.630
And, you know, he did not believe it was just kind of the
00:47:34.630 --> 00:47:38.234
Famous, popular christian's job to be christians in the world,
00:47:38.234 --> 00:47:42.004
But that we all had an ability
00:47:42.004 --> 00:47:44.273
To understand and know what is true,
00:47:44.273 --> 00:47:46.642
And really to think about christianity as if it's true.
00:47:46.642 --> 00:47:50.913
That's different than thinking about it as if it's helpful
00:47:50.913 --> 00:47:53.382
Or just personal.
00:47:53.382 --> 00:47:55.117
Christianity is personal, but it's not private.
00:47:55.117 --> 00:47:57.253
We're talking about public truths.
00:47:57.253 --> 00:47:59.121
God created the world.
00:47:59.121 --> 00:48:00.523
Humans have infinite value made in his image.
00:48:00.523 --> 00:48:02.758
Jesus christ actually was the god man who came and walked on
00:48:02.758 --> 00:48:06.395
This earth, died, and his resurrection actually happened.
00:48:06.395 --> 00:48:10.700
And that these are pivot points in human history.
00:48:10.700 --> 00:48:12.969
So orienting our life around that is, uh, is really what the
00:48:12.969 --> 00:48:16.939
Colson center has been about
00:48:16.939 --> 00:48:18.708
Because of this vision of our founder.
00:48:18.708 --> 00:48:20.943
And that's really what is the truth rising is all about, both
00:48:20.943 --> 00:48:24.146
The documentary and then the study is go deeper, you know,
00:48:24.146 --> 00:48:28.084
Learn about what it means to be a person of hope and truth and
00:48:28.084 --> 00:48:33.255
Identity and calling in this moment.
00:48:33.255 --> 00:48:35.992
Be a joyful warrior.
00:48:36.459 --> 00:48:38.160
Yes, that's what it is.
00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:40.062
That's beautiful.
00:48:40.062 --> 00:48:40.830
Are you this nice all the time?
00:48:41.464 --> 00:48:45.735
That's a question you're going to have to ask everybody else,
00:48:45.735 --> 00:48:48.004
I think i am, but i think it's not because of anything i do.
00:48:48.004 --> 00:48:52.041
I think it's because of god gives us in the fruits of the
00:48:52.041 --> 00:48:55.277
Spirit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
00:48:55.277 --> 00:48:58.280
Faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:00.182
Those are fruits of the spirit.
00:49:00.182 --> 00:49:01.984
They're not things that we do for the spirit, the things he
00:49:01.984 --> 00:49:04.120
Does through us when we're obedient.
00:49:04.120 --> 00:49:06.489
I've never gotten angry or bitter toward the two men who
00:49:06.489 --> 00:49:09.492
Sued me the first time,
00:49:09.492 --> 00:49:10.760
The attorney who's suing me in masterpiece two and three.
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:13.429
I'd be glad to have conversation with any of them,
00:49:13.429 --> 00:49:16.298
Treat them the way i would treat any other customer that
00:49:16.298 --> 00:49:18.134
Came in the shop.
00:49:18.134 --> 00:49:19.869
I knew right from the start that this calling had been
00:49:19.869 --> 00:49:22.605
Placed on us, and that we had to do our best to be obedient
00:49:22.605 --> 00:49:25.674
To god and faithful to his word.
00:49:25.674 --> 00:49:28.611
But there was a point where we were deciding to go to the
00:49:28.611 --> 00:49:31.881
United states supreme court
00:49:31.881 --> 00:49:33.682
And, uh, talking to different people,
00:49:33.682 --> 00:49:36.786
One of the things i thought of was, you know, why don't we go
00:49:36.786 --> 00:49:40.156
Ahead and file the petition?
00:49:40.156 --> 00:49:41.524
They're already not hearing our case.
00:49:41.524 --> 00:49:44.060
The worst they could do is deny our case, and then we're
00:49:44.060 --> 00:49:46.162
Officially not being heard.
00:49:46.162 --> 00:49:48.064
And one of my attorneys told me, no, the worst that could
00:49:48.064 --> 00:49:50.633
Happen is that they grant your case and you lose.
00:49:50.633 --> 00:49:55.504
And i think it was at that point that i realized how much
00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:59.442
Larger this was than me and my cake shop did.
00:49:59.442 --> 00:50:02.645
This case represented every american because free speech
00:50:02.645 --> 00:50:07.016
Is for everyone.
00:50:07.016 --> 00:50:08.651
And if i lose my rights, if they can take away my rights,
00:50:08.651 --> 00:50:11.387
They can take away from anybody and or everybody.
00:50:11.387 --> 00:50:14.557
And i realize that what god has called us to do is so much
00:50:14.557 --> 00:50:17.560
Larger than what i initially thought maybe.
00:50:17.560 --> 00:50:20.463
When i had the opportunity to write the book,
00:50:20.463 --> 00:50:23.833
Two things came to mind immediately.
00:50:23.833 --> 00:50:26.202
One is that i can share what actually happened so that my
00:50:26.202 --> 00:50:30.005
Grandkids grow up ten years, 20 years from now,
00:50:30.005 --> 00:50:33.576
That was that was grandpa?
00:50:34.143 --> 00:50:36.679
And they'll want to know what happened.
00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:38.414
They can go online and find any version that they want.
00:50:38.414 --> 00:50:40.683
But i want them to know what
00:50:40.683 --> 00:50:42.051
Actually happened because i was here.
00:50:42.051 --> 00:50:43.319
I want them to know the truth of what happened that day.
00:50:43.319 --> 00:50:45.921
And then the second thing was to be able to share my faith,
00:50:45.921 --> 00:50:49.458
Share the gospel.
00:50:49.458 --> 00:50:50.659
So i try to write clearly in there what it meant, how i
00:50:50.659 --> 00:50:53.596
Became a christian, how i became a follower of christ,
00:50:53.596 --> 00:50:55.798
What changed that was in my life, and what god's love
00:50:55.798 --> 00:50:58.868
Through sending his son to pay the penalty for
00:50:58.868 --> 00:51:01.170
My sins meant to me. and then to my wife.
00:51:01.170 --> 00:51:04.640
And then to our family and to my business, and down the road
00:51:04.640 --> 00:51:09.345
To impact so many other people.
00:51:09.345 --> 00:51:12.181
God designed all of us to be in a relationship with him, and
00:51:12.181 --> 00:51:16.285
It's our sin that's destroyed that relationship,
00:51:16.285 --> 00:51:19.755
Our willingness to sin, our desire to sin, our inbred
00:51:19.755 --> 00:51:22.424
Nature to sin.
00:51:22.424 --> 00:51:24.026
But god wanted to redeem us and rescue us
00:51:24.026 --> 00:51:26.829
So he sent his son jesus to the cross where he died, and he was
00:51:26.829 --> 00:51:32.201
Buried according to the scriptures.
00:51:32.201 --> 00:51:34.036
And he rose again the third day according to the scriptures to
00:51:34.036 --> 00:51:36.639
Restore that relationship and pay the penalty for our sin.
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:40.843
One of my favorite bible verses comes from the old testament
00:51:40.843 --> 00:51:44.146
And it's second chronicles 16, verse nine, where it says
00:51:44.146 --> 00:51:48.317
That the eyes of the lord range through the whole world to
00:51:48.317 --> 00:51:51.220
Strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him.
00:51:51.220 --> 00:51:55.024
And another version says to show himself strong through
00:51:55.024 --> 00:51:58.594
Those whose hearts are fully committed to him.
00:51:58.594 --> 00:52:01.530
And i would encourage people i can't say my heart is fully
00:52:01.530 --> 00:52:05.868
Committed to him, but it is as much as i'm able to, and he
00:52:05.868 --> 00:52:09.538
Empowers us to do that so that we can stand.
00:52:09.538 --> 00:52:12.541
And in his promise is that he will give us strength.
00:52:12.541 --> 00:52:16.011
He will show himself strong
00:52:16.011 --> 00:52:17.813
Through what we do when we're obedient.
00:52:17.813 --> 00:52:20.282
And obedience isn't difficult when he gives us the ability to
00:52:20.282 --> 00:52:23.919
Obey and he does, he promises that.
00:52:23.919 --> 00:52:27.089
I think i came to the conclusion that this is just
00:52:27.089 --> 00:52:29.391
Something that god has me to do, and i just need to be
00:52:29.391 --> 00:52:32.394
Faithful to it.
00:52:32.394 --> 00:52:33.662
That very first day, when the two men stormed out and god
00:52:33.662 --> 00:52:37.099
Gave me a second timothy 1:7, i was telling you that,
00:52:37.099 --> 00:52:40.402
God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, of love
00:52:40.402 --> 00:52:43.439
And a sound mind and a sound mind part came to me.
00:52:43.439 --> 00:52:46.075
And this isn't your fight.
00:52:46.075 --> 00:52:47.977
God is just going to use us.
00:52:48.577 --> 00:52:50.145
And i just want to be faithful to that.
00:52:50.145 --> 00:52:51.580
So there was never any point where i was debating in my mind
00:52:51.580 --> 00:52:56.452
If this was what god's called me to do.
00:52:56.452 --> 00:52:58.954
It was pretty clear.
00:52:59.421 --> 00:53:01.257
I'm sure that i resolve, my resolve, and my family and
00:53:01.257 --> 00:53:05.527
Everybody around here has grown through the course of all this.
00:53:05.527 --> 00:53:09.531
This was a cake we couldn't create because it expresses a
00:53:09.531 --> 00:53:12.368
Message that goes against my faith.
00:53:12.368 --> 00:53:13.736
That was the crux of the issue.
00:53:13.736 --> 00:53:16.005
Was there ever a second thought?
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:18.007
No. i would make that same decision again and again and
00:53:18.007 --> 00:53:20.809
Again and have had to multiple times since then.
00:53:20.809 --> 00:53:24.280
But it's the right decision.
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:25.681
You have to stand by your faith, and god is fully capable
00:53:25.681 --> 00:53:29.652
Of taking responsibility for my obedience.
00:53:29.652 --> 00:53:32.788
You know, we've looked at jack's story on this and i just--
00:53:33.922 --> 00:53:36.659
Oh, gosh, i hope i get to him. next time i'm in colorado,
00:53:36.659 --> 00:53:39.028
I'm going to get it together. yes. okay.
00:53:39.028 --> 00:53:41.397
Let's go to the shop.
00:53:41.397 --> 00:53:42.298
Yeah. we can have some cake.
00:53:42.298 --> 00:53:44.033
Exactly. but there's something so beautiful about it because
00:53:44.033 --> 00:53:47.569
He's just like,
00:53:47.569 --> 00:53:49.038
He's just like this normal guy who loves jesus and wants to do
00:53:49.038 --> 00:53:52.207
The right thing and welcomes anybody into his shop, but
00:53:52.207 --> 00:53:56.145
Won't go against what his god has placed in his heart.
00:53:56.145 --> 00:53:59.581
I'm thinking of people watching right now, um, who find
00:53:59.581 --> 00:54:02.618
Themselves in a tough place, you know, maybe in their work
00:54:02.618 --> 00:54:05.154
Environment where people are not supportive and they're--
00:54:05.154 --> 00:54:08.357
Jim, would you pray for people who are struggling, maybe that
00:54:08.357 --> 00:54:11.160
They would be able to
00:54:11.160 --> 00:54:12.695
Just like jack, to be able to say yes to the lord?
00:54:13.729 --> 00:54:16.165
Yeah. let me before i do one thing,
00:54:16.165 --> 00:54:18.367
I used to work in the business world, and i tried to be the
00:54:18.367 --> 00:54:21.370
Best christian i could be.
00:54:21.370 --> 00:54:23.005
I remember being a 28 year old.
00:54:23.005 --> 00:54:24.807
There'd be older men at a lunch table smoking cigarettes and
00:54:24.807 --> 00:54:29.011
Drinking martinis, and i'm having iced tea and i'd say,
00:54:29.011 --> 00:54:32.014
Would you guys mind if i pray over our lunch?
00:54:32.014 --> 00:54:34.183
And they go, oh, yeah, and they put their drinks down.
00:54:34.183 --> 00:54:37.553
But even just something that light handed carried weight.
00:54:37.553 --> 00:54:42.191
And again, you can just do so many little things to
00:54:42.191 --> 00:54:45.127
Acknowledge your faithfulness toward the lord.
00:54:45.127 --> 00:54:47.830
But let's pray.
00:54:47.830 --> 00:54:49.264
Father, we are grateful for each and every story that you
00:54:49.264 --> 00:54:52.134
Have working on this earth right now.
00:54:52.134 --> 00:54:54.103
Those testimonies that are and those testimonies that are yet
00:54:54.103 --> 00:54:57.573
To be, and that you're the great orchestrator of
00:54:57.573 --> 00:55:00.476
All of this lord.
00:55:00.476 --> 00:55:01.610
In the workplace, in the home, everywhere in school,
00:55:01.610 --> 00:55:04.880
University, you're working and you have your followers, your
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:09.785
Believers in such a place to carry out that work, to lead
00:55:09.785 --> 00:55:14.356
People to you. embolden them.
00:55:14.356 --> 00:55:17.092
Lord, help us all to feel the courage of our faith and our
00:55:17.092 --> 00:55:20.629
Conviction to say those right words, to be that joyful
00:55:20.629 --> 00:55:25.734
Warrior in a spiritual context, to be graceful in our speech,
00:55:25.734 --> 00:55:30.606
To be mindful that we were all sinners, and that it's only by
00:55:30.606 --> 00:55:35.744
Your grace that we come to know you, lord.
00:55:35.744 --> 00:55:39.114
So work mightily in this generation.
00:55:39.114 --> 00:55:41.650
Lord, may this be a movement that changes the direction of
00:55:41.650 --> 00:55:45.354
Not just people, but nations, that that awakening will occur,
00:55:45.354 --> 00:55:49.391
Will occur and honor you in every way.
00:55:49.391 --> 00:55:52.628
And father, we pray it that it would be so.
00:55:52.628 --> 00:55:56.298
In christ's name, amen.
00:55:56.298 --> 00:55:58.133
Amen, amen.
00:55:58.133 --> 00:55:59.535
So grateful to you both.
00:55:59.535 --> 00:56:01.103
And it's my prayer for this project, for truth rising, that
00:56:01.103 --> 00:56:04.606
The story of courageous christians will multiply and
00:56:04.606 --> 00:56:07.309
Multiply and multiply and multiply.
00:56:07.309 --> 00:56:10.078
So thank you so much.
00:56:10.078 --> 00:56:11.346
Thanks for being with us and thanks for doing this.
00:56:11.346 --> 00:56:13.982
And just remember, you are
00:56:13.982 --> 00:56:15.350
Loved, you are seen, you are known.
00:56:15.350 --> 00:56:17.586
And we'll see you next time.
00:56:17.586 --> 00:56:17.586

John Stonestreet & Jim Daily: The Cost of Living with Conviction | Praise

September 4, 2025 | S25 E904 | 58:5

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