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Kelly Shackelford: The First Freedom: America’s Fight for Faith | Praise

May 13, 2026 | 56:9

Kelly Shackelford joins Matt and Laurie to discuss recent Supreme Court victories, religious freedom, parental rights, and the importance of standing firm in faith.

#Praise #Communication #Freedom #FreedomofSpeech #Faith #Honor #Christianity #Relief #TrustGod #WalkwithGod #KellyShackelford

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Praise | Kelly Shackelford: The First Freedom: America’s Fight for Faith | Praise | May 13, 2026

Male announcer: before the dawn of freedom.
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Before the constitution.
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Before the monuments or fireworks.
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Before "we the people" was on the parchment, there was
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An idea.
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A bold, world-shaking idea
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That every person is born with rights not given by kings, not
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Granted by governments, but endowed by their creator.
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And at the heart of those rights is the freedom to believe in
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That creator, to worship, to question, to have faith or no
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Faith at all.
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In america, your soul is not subject to the state.
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Your faith is between you and your creator, from your heart to
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Almighty god.
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And your conscience, it still belongs to you because this is
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Where liberty begins, with our first freedom.
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For 250 years, this freedom has anchored us through war and
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Peace, struggle and progress.
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It's what makes america not just different, but exceptional.
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It's what makes us free.
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We don't always get it right, but we've never let go of what
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Is right.
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And our first freedom, it still stands.
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And today, we're making it stronger, for our children, for
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Our grandchildren, for the shining future of the country
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We love.
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Because when faith is free, so is the mind.
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So is your voice.
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So is our nation.
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We're not just the home of the brave, we're the land of
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The free because of that freedom that came first.
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Faith, freedom, 250 years strong.
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Then, now, forever.
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Matt crouch: kelly shackelford, as long as we keep fighting for
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Our freedoms, another 250 years are ahead of us, but we've got
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To keep at it.
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Thank you for what you do at first liberty, and you're
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Sitting here with a couple of fresh supreme court victories.
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So, let's start with those and go, you know, with some of the
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Other stuff you're working on.
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But you're fighting for those freedoms that we sometimes take
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For granted for 250 years.
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And you're in the trenches with it.
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Thank you.
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Kelly shackelford: well, thank you.
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It's a privilege to be on with you.
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And it's, i mean, it's, we stand next to heroes.
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These are people in the united states standing for their faith.
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It's not easy.
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They're--but they're standing.
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And when they stand, it's not just for them, it's for millions
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Of other people and their freedoms.
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And so, it's really an honor.
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And if people don't know, basically, first liberty is the
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Largest legal nonprofit in the country that all we do is
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Religious freedom.
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So, if you're a little girl, let's say you're gabriella perez
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And you're a five-year-old girl and you're "caught" praying over
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Your meal in the lunch cafeteria and told, quote, "it's not good
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To pray in school," and you're a poor family, you live outside of
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Orlando, what exactly do you do?
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You can't take a couple hundred thousand dollars out of the
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Bank, go hire a legal team.
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So, we bring in the best litigators in the country, they
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All donate their time free of charge.
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So that when gabriella wins that case, which we did, we don't
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Just win for gabriella, but we set a precedent for all of our
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Kids and our grandkids.
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And that's why we're here because most people could never
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Afford to fight the government when they violate their
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Religious freedom.
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Matt: you know, there was an old carnival game called
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Whack-a-mole, and it feels like you're just constantly having to
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Pick up a hammer and smash some stupid decision that somebody
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Made somewhere and fight it all the way through to victory, and
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It takes years sometimes.
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♪♪♪
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Kelly: gabe olivier is a hardworking family man, runs his
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Own lawn care business.
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His faith guides his entire life and compels him to share
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The gospel.
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Gabe olivier: some people call it street preaching, or open-air
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Evangelism, or witnessing, or whatever.
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But the basic concept of it is that christ in the scriptures
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Commands us to go boldly to all the world.
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In the great commission, he says to go out into all the world and
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Preach the gospel.
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And you're free to take a piece of literature from us and you're
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Free to not take one.
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You're free to hear our message and free to ignore it or you're
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Free to come and engage and disagree.
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Kelly: a favorite spot, the brandon,
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Mississippi amphitheater.
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Thousands come here every summer.
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The public sidewalk is a perfect spot to preach, but city
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Officials tried to lock away the entire first amendment in
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This box.
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Gabe: so, a part of the ordinance that they passed in
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The city of brandon was to have a designated protest zone, which
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Was about 100 yards down the sidewalk, much further away than
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Reasonable where we could be able to reach people.
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It looks a little bit more official now, but at the time it
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Was just a 10 by 10 box.
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Kelly: he knew that was wrong and went back to the sidewalk.
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Gabe: the chief of police actually came down in a golf
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Cart with another officer with him.
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He got out and the whole conversation was very short.
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He informed us that we were in violation of a city ordinance.
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In the course of me asking a couple of questions there very,
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Very quickly, he decided to make an arrest.
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Christina olivier: next thing i know, i'm looking over there and
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Gabe was in handcuffs and the police chief said, you know,
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"unless y'all want to be arrested, you need to leave
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Immediately as well."
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So, i had two toddlers in a double stroller, and so i just
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Thought of them.
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Kelly: gabe pleaded no contest and paid a fine.
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Then he went to court to challenge the
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Unconstitutional ordinance.
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But because of a broken part of the law, the judge would not let
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Him bring his case at all.
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Gabe: i'm not a lawyer, and so some of it had to be explained
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Quite a few times to me.
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Maybe it was naivety on my part, but i was under the impression
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That when you, you know, did what you needed to do to file a
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Case, it got heard.
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Kelly: first liberty is asking the supreme court to fix
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What's broken.
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Nate kellum: he wants his day in court, access to justice.
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There's certainly nothing more crucial than that.
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There's no issue more important than that.
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Gabe: you didn't like that, huh?
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You didn't like that?
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Christina: i see a godly man that wants to make the lord
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Known and is bold and not scared to share his faith.
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Gabe: and if they decide to follow christ one day, i want my
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Children to enjoy the same rights that i've been able to
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Enjoy in the past.
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Kelly: well, gabe was a guy who came to faith from
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Street evangelism.
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And so, he felt a responsibility to, even when he was--he works
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During the week, but on the weekend, he felt a
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Responsibility to go back to the street and tell people about
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The lord.
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And so, there's a big amphitheater in his community
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And it holds thousands of people.
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And there's concerts and different things there.
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So, perfect place on the weekends to go and to talk
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To people.
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Well, they didn't like that.
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So, the city passed a law that said you can only engage in
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Speech in a 10 by 10 foot square, 100 yards away from the
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Amphitheater almost next to the street where nobody goes.
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Laurie crouch: empty parking lot.
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Kelly: yes, and they called it a protest zone.
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I don't know what gabe's protesting, maybe satan,
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You know?
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I mean, he's just sharing his faith.
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And so, gabe went there, he couldn't talk to anybody, so he
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Walked out of the 10 by 10 and they handcuffed him and
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Arrested him.
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And he's like, "look, i don't want to go to jail or any of
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This stuff."
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So, he just paid the $300 fine, said nolo contendere and then
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Filed a lawsuit to say, "i wanna make sure this doesn't happen to
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Me again."
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And the federal judge said, "oh, i'm sorry, you can't ever file a
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Lawsuit because, you know, they've charge--there's this
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Old case about a guy who was criminally charged in a criminal
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Case and lost in state court and got put in jail.
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And then he tried to go back in federal court and undo what
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Happened to him in state court."
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Of course, gabe wasn't trying to undo anything.
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He just didn't want to be arrested and he had a first
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Amendment right to get into court and to say, "hey, you
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Can't do this."
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And so, he lost, went up to the federal court of appeals, and in
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A special sitting with all 17 judges, lost again.
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And we took it all the way to the supreme court.
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And this is what's fascinating is we won 9-0 at the u.s.
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Supreme court.
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He has that right and every american has that right to go
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Into court to protect their first amendment rights.
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And so, that's the great news.
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The bad news is all that means is we're now back in court about
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This ordinance to try to put him in a 10 by 10 box.
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And they've done this to other evangelists out there, you know,
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And they've been ruling wrongly.
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So, we don't know if we're gonna have to, you know, go through
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The same court of appeals and have to get them reversed again.
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We hope they'll do the right thing, but this is about
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Something i think most of us thought was basic, the right to
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Share your faith in a public park.
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Matt: okay, help our audience understand that maybe that's why
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Most americans don't like lawyers.
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You know, i'm joking partially, but somewhat--
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Laurie: that's why i love lawyers.
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Matt: is you just said we had a victory at the supreme court
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Then you said, "well, all that means is we go back into court."
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So, it feels like we're on a little bit of a hamster
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Wheel here, so help--
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Kelly: well, they wouldn't let us in court.
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That was the first battle.
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Is they told him he could never even have his day in court.
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Matt: state court? any court?
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Kelly: federal court, federal court.
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He had--because he had been convicted of this $300 charge
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For walking outside of the box, they said that means he could
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Never bring a lawsuit in federal court against this under the
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First amendment.
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And so, we had to go all the way to the supreme court just to
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Win, and that--
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Matt: just to win that point.
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Kelly: and that's a really important--i mean, he won
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Something much bigger even than just his case or the right to
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Even share his faith.
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Every first amendment right, right?
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Everybody now has a right to get into court, no matter what some
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Local community did to them in the past.
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You have a right to present your issue and to have it heard.
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And so, that was important.
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And it was so big that i think that's why we got 9-0.
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I don't care if you're a liberal or conservative.
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You know, if--you want your side to have their day in court
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Under the constitution.
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But we're not done.
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We've got to go back and now fight this through and win, and
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Gabe is standing the whole way and he's standing for every
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Other person who wants to share their faith.
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Matt: everyone wants that right, but if you could ever figure out
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How to make it just where our side only gets their day in
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Court and the other one doesn't, then i'd appreciate that too,
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Okay, so.
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Kelly: in my benevolent dictatorship, i'll put that
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In order.
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Matt: thank you. appreciate it.
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That's all i've ever wanted.
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Laurie: you know, but you said you stand beside heroes, and
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These are the people that actually--so it's been lost on
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Me just a little bit until recently about what it takes to
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Actually stand up and say, "no, i'm gonna fight this," you know?
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That's a huge deal because it takes years.
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Think about and, you know, sometimes i watched, i watch
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Stuff that people just being in court and having to deal for
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Decades sometimes, these poor people that just go back and
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Back and back.
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And that they have the courage and that they have the strength
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To even stand up and say anything about stuff.
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Kelly: it's hard.
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It really is.
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You feel isolated.
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You're, you know, the way i describe, sort of, the legal
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Process sometimes is it's unlike any other job.
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Because it's like a plumber that every time he screws in the
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Pipe, somebody on the other end is unscrewing the pipe.
00:12:50.726 --> 00:12:54.163
So, it just never ends.
00:12:54.163 --> 00:12:55.531
The conflict goes and goes and goes.
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And so, they go through that for 7, 8, 9, 10 years at times.
00:12:58.767 --> 00:13:03.239
And it feels very lonely, and it's--you can imagine
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Spiritually that the kind of spiritual warfare that goes on
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When you are the one that is doing this thing to protect
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Religious freedom for millions of other people.
00:13:15.184 --> 00:13:18.053
So, we've actually done something.
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I don't know of any other law firm in the united states that's
00:13:19.488 --> 00:13:22.458
Done--nonprofit or for-profit-- that's ever done this, but we
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Have on staff somebody, their job literally is to go to our
00:13:25.394 --> 00:13:28.797
Clients to pray for them, to find out what their needs are,
00:13:28.797 --> 00:13:33.002
The attacks they're under, to be with them at all the hearings.
00:13:33.002 --> 00:13:37.206
I mean, that she is gifted at that.
00:13:37.206 --> 00:13:40.042
And it's such a huge deal because that is a major part of
00:13:40.042 --> 00:13:43.078
The battle is what they go through and hanging on and
00:13:43.078 --> 00:13:45.881
Standing in there for that long.
00:13:45.881 --> 00:13:48.050
Matt: okay, in a concise kind of thing, gabe olivier case, what
00:13:48.050 --> 00:13:53.122
Exactly did it do?
00:13:53.122 --> 00:13:54.456
That supreme court victory, what did that do?
00:13:54.456 --> 00:13:57.026
Kelly: it preserved, it really made it very clear that every
00:13:57.026 --> 00:14:01.730
American, if they're--if they say their first amendment rights
00:14:01.730 --> 00:14:05.634
Have been violated, have a right to go into court and to get
00:14:05.634 --> 00:14:08.637
A termination.
00:14:08.637 --> 00:14:10.005
Matt: no matter what?
00:14:10.005 --> 00:14:11.340
Kelly: right, they get-- they have a right to go in--
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:13.175
Now, they might lose, but you can't--see, i'll tell you,
00:14:13.175 --> 00:14:17.646
Judges are human.
00:14:17.646 --> 00:14:19.081
And so, judges would like to be promoted, whether through an
00:14:19.081 --> 00:14:24.453
Election if they're a state judge or federally maybe go up
00:14:24.453 --> 00:14:28.190
To a higher court.
00:14:28.190 --> 00:14:29.558
Maybe they'd love to be a supreme court justice someday.
00:14:29.558 --> 00:14:31.894
Well, so, if a controversial case like a religious liberty
00:14:31.894 --> 00:14:35.464
Case comes in their court, the natural desire would be, "i
00:14:35.464 --> 00:14:39.535
Wonder if there's a way for me to get rid of this case without
00:14:39.535 --> 00:14:43.339
Having to upset 50% of the country."
00:14:43.339 --> 00:14:46.709
And so, if they've--there's all kinds of little traps and
00:14:46.709 --> 00:14:50.012
Things and ways, and that's what they were trying to do with
00:14:50.012 --> 00:14:52.848
Gabe is say, "nope, sorry, i don't--i can't rule on your
00:14:52.848 --> 00:14:56.118
Case because you can't be in court."
00:14:56.118 --> 00:14:58.153
Well, that's over.
00:14:58.153 --> 00:15:00.089
You do have a right to be in the court.
00:15:00.089 --> 00:15:01.991
You do have a right to determine your first amendment rights.
00:15:01.991 --> 00:15:04.994
And you can't sort of duck and hide from these.
00:15:04.994 --> 00:15:08.030
Matt: okay, your second supreme court case just recently was the
00:15:08.030 --> 00:15:13.369
Miller case.
00:15:13.369 --> 00:15:15.304
So, what did that say and what did we get accomplished there?
00:15:15.304 --> 00:15:19.108
Kelly: well, we, you know, that one's again, it was a really
00:15:19.108 --> 00:15:23.112
Important decision, but it might not be over.
00:15:23.112 --> 00:15:25.214
We'll see.
00:15:25.214 --> 00:15:26.782
But in that case, almost every state has had laws that have an
00:15:26.782 --> 00:15:32.955
Exemption to vaccinating your children for religion,
00:15:32.955 --> 00:15:37.593
Religious freedom.
00:15:37.593 --> 00:15:38.927
But a couple of states during covid decided they didn't want
00:15:38.927 --> 00:15:42.097
Any of those religious people to have exemptions.
00:15:42.097 --> 00:15:44.033
They didn't care what they believed.
00:15:44.033 --> 00:15:45.534
And so, like california and new york, and they took away
00:15:45.534 --> 00:15:48.871
The exemption.
00:15:48.871 --> 00:15:50.272
So, all the amish have been trying to do for 250 years is
00:15:50.272 --> 00:15:53.542
Just be left alone.
00:15:53.542 --> 00:15:55.444
And so, new york comes out there and they say, "we're gonna force
00:15:55.444 --> 00:15:59.648
You to vaccinate your children."
00:15:59.648 --> 00:16:01.617
And they said, "what?
00:16:01.617 --> 00:16:03.318
Why?"
00:16:03.318 --> 00:16:04.686
Well, because you're going to school.
00:16:04.686 --> 00:16:06.021
It's like, they're going to our schools, the amish schools,
00:16:06.021 --> 00:16:07.356
They are separate.
00:16:07.356 --> 00:16:08.690
It's like, "we're gonna-- this violates our faith."
00:16:08.690 --> 00:16:10.893
And so, they're in new york. guess what happened?
00:16:10.893 --> 00:16:12.394
They lost. they lost.
00:16:12.394 --> 00:16:15.164
We went to the supreme court and the supreme court vacated the
00:16:15.164 --> 00:16:20.402
Decision below, threw it out, and sent a message back down and
00:16:20.402 --> 00:16:23.806
Said, "next time you run into this," they said, "you need to
00:16:23.806 --> 00:16:27.342
Look at parental rights and religious freedom."
00:16:27.342 --> 00:16:30.746
That's a pretty strong message.
00:16:30.746 --> 00:16:32.448
That's the first time in the history of our country that the
00:16:32.448 --> 00:16:35.217
Supreme court has ever ruled in favor of protecting against a
00:16:35.217 --> 00:16:39.655
Vaccine mandate.
00:16:39.655 --> 00:16:41.123
So, that's a significant first step.
00:16:41.123 --> 00:16:42.925
But they might do the same thing again now that they've gotten
00:16:42.925 --> 00:16:45.461
The advice and we might have to go back to get the actual
00:16:45.461 --> 00:16:48.664
Determination on all of that.
00:16:48.664 --> 00:16:51.166
But that was huge because, you know, there's about 6,000
00:16:51.166 --> 00:16:54.770
Requests a year.
00:16:54.770 --> 00:16:56.138
The supreme court only took 56 last year.
00:16:56.138 --> 00:16:58.974
The idea that they're gonna take your case, usually you're done
00:16:58.974 --> 00:17:02.544
When you try to get there and those amish--
00:17:02.544 --> 00:17:03.946
Matt: so, the circuit appellate court is usually the end of the
00:17:03.946 --> 00:17:07.015
Line for most cases?
00:17:07.015 --> 00:17:08.383
Kelly: it is.
00:17:08.383 --> 00:17:09.718
And so, if you're the amish, you're thinking, "our odds are
00:17:09.718 --> 00:17:11.653
Not good."
00:17:11.653 --> 00:17:13.021
And yet we just got the whole thing thrown out.
00:17:13.021 --> 00:17:15.357
So, that was a big decision--
00:17:15.357 --> 00:17:16.725
Matt: how is that different, kelly, we're here in texas.
00:17:16.725 --> 00:17:21.463
You have first liberty is based right here in the dallas area.
00:17:21.463 --> 00:17:28.270
Just above us here in oklahoma was the hobby lobby case.
00:17:28.270 --> 00:17:34.443
And if i'm not wrong, did that go to the supreme court also?
00:17:34.443 --> 00:17:38.514
Kelly: it did, yes.
00:17:38.514 --> 00:17:39.882
Matt: okay, so how is that case similar and/or different
00:17:39.882 --> 00:17:43.452
That was--
00:17:43.452 --> 00:17:44.786
Kelly: it was, yeah, whether they had to provide in their
00:17:44.786 --> 00:17:47.222
Healthcare for abortion, really.
00:17:47.222 --> 00:17:50.425
And they were going to be fined a million dollars a day because
00:17:50.425 --> 00:17:53.629
Obamacare was trying to force them to violate their faith.
00:17:53.629 --> 00:17:58.133
They actually, you know, lost below.
00:17:58.133 --> 00:18:02.237
They had a judge up in oklahoma.
00:18:02.237 --> 00:18:05.841
They went up and, fortunately for them because they would have
00:18:05.841 --> 00:18:08.677
Been done.
00:18:08.677 --> 00:18:10.078
We would have no museum of the bible, anything that all that
00:18:10.078 --> 00:18:12.581
They've done if they'd have lost that case.
00:18:12.581 --> 00:18:14.950
But when they got to the supreme court, it was a win, it was a
00:18:14.950 --> 00:18:18.687
Decision for religious freedom, including people in running
00:18:18.687 --> 00:18:21.857
Their business.
00:18:21.857 --> 00:18:23.425
Now, one of the things that they did, i think that's very
00:18:23.425 --> 00:18:25.494
Important that we advise, and we have religious liberty
00:18:25.494 --> 00:18:28.897
Protection kits for all kinds of areas, and one of them is for
00:18:28.897 --> 00:18:31.833
People who are running their business.
00:18:31.833 --> 00:18:34.269
They had laid out in their documents beforehand why they do
00:18:34.269 --> 00:18:39.208
What they do, their faith, their, you know, statement, and
00:18:39.208 --> 00:18:43.145
Which then backed up what they said about, we as a company, we
00:18:43.145 --> 00:18:48.450
Cannot because of, if you look at who we are, we cannot pay for
00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:53.288
The killing of innocent human life.
00:18:53.288 --> 00:18:54.856
Matt: an abortion pill of some sort it feels like, yeah.
00:18:54.856 --> 00:18:56.325
Kelly: that's right. and they said we can't do it.
00:18:56.325 --> 00:18:59.328
So, the court immediately said, "okay, we can't question their
00:18:59.328 --> 00:19:04.166
Sincerity because this is obviously in there."
00:19:04.166 --> 00:19:06.702
So, the question is, is that protected?
00:19:06.702 --> 00:19:08.570
And they said it was.
00:19:08.570 --> 00:19:10.038
And thank goodness.
00:19:10.038 --> 00:19:12.341
And that is really important for every faith-based business
00:19:12.341 --> 00:19:15.644
In the country.
00:19:15.644 --> 00:19:17.012
But that kind of decision, it just shows you there's a real
00:19:17.012 --> 00:19:20.549
Danger in these cases.
00:19:20.549 --> 00:19:21.917
I mean, we, you know, it's hard to get your case to the
00:19:21.917 --> 00:19:25.153
Supreme court.
00:19:25.153 --> 00:19:26.521
And, you know, ten years ago, i remember in my time with the
00:19:26.521 --> 00:19:30.125
Lord, you know, you kind of dream.
00:19:30.125 --> 00:19:31.893
And i was dreaming i was like, "lord, i'd really like to have
00:19:31.893 --> 00:19:35.530
For us a supreme court case."
00:19:35.530 --> 00:19:38.333
And the way god is, right, ten years later, really in the last
00:19:38.333 --> 00:19:43.038
Eight years we've had 11 cases at the supreme court and our
00:19:43.038 --> 00:19:47.142
Record is 11 and 0, which only god could do that.
00:19:47.142 --> 00:19:51.079
And you just think about the odds of these, like we argued
00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:53.849
The gabe olivier case in december, and three days later
00:19:53.849 --> 00:19:58.186
We won the miller case, the amish case.
00:19:58.186 --> 00:20:01.056
I mean, to have two cases like that, i mean, it doesn't happen.
00:20:01.056 --> 00:20:05.127
So, you know, the hostility is great.
00:20:05.127 --> 00:20:08.030
I mean, i could tell you cases that, and we might have time to,
00:20:08.030 --> 00:20:11.300
That you just can't believe these things are happening in
00:20:11.300 --> 00:20:13.869
The united states.
00:20:13.869 --> 00:20:15.203
It's getting--the attacks are getting more vicious.
00:20:15.203 --> 00:20:16.772
But god is doing something pretty dramatically new and good
00:20:16.772 --> 00:20:22.244
Over the last seven or eight years in this arena.
00:20:22.244 --> 00:20:24.746
Matt: i love how we actually started this broadcast.
00:20:24.746 --> 00:20:27.316
Thank you for creating that little 250th kind of video thing
00:20:27.316 --> 00:20:31.119
That started the broadcast today.
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:34.323
Sitting with us, kelly shackelford, first
00:20:34.323 --> 00:20:37.459
Liberty institute.
00:20:37.459 --> 00:20:38.894
And before we get into kind of some of your other cases that
00:20:38.894 --> 00:20:45.033
You're working on, i just--i haven't had you sitting here in
00:20:45.033 --> 00:20:47.903
A long time and i wanted to ask you to give an overview of
00:20:47.903 --> 00:20:53.141
Really what happened at roe v. wade.
00:20:53.141 --> 00:20:56.445
That's just got to be the biggest case name in, you know,
00:20:56.445 --> 00:21:02.918
Kind of christian liberty kind of circles, you know, and all
00:21:02.918 --> 00:21:05.987
These kind of issues that we deal with, it's probably the
00:21:05.987 --> 00:21:09.691
Biggest case in our lifetime, you know?
00:21:09.691 --> 00:21:13.995
And sure enough, it was upended.
00:21:13.995 --> 00:21:18.200
So, what really happened at roe v. wade?
00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:21.336
Kelly: well, yeah, let me step back and give the explanation.
00:21:21.336 --> 00:21:25.140
We got roe v. wade in the first place because we had a majority
00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:29.144
Of justices who thought the constitution was a living,
00:21:29.144 --> 00:21:33.382
Breathing document that they could read
00:21:33.382 --> 00:21:34.916
Into whatever they wished.
00:21:34.916 --> 00:21:37.219
And similar to a minister who would take the bible and use it
00:21:37.219 --> 00:21:41.423
In that way, right?
00:21:41.423 --> 00:21:42.791
I mean just taking liberty instead of following what
00:21:42.791 --> 00:21:45.160
It says.
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:47.362
And so, they created this thing.
00:21:47.362 --> 00:21:48.830
I mean you could read the constitution, there's nothing in
00:21:48.830 --> 00:21:51.299
There about abortion.
00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:53.068
But they created this.
00:21:53.068 --> 00:21:54.803
And so, we really felt the first time that trump was elected, you
00:21:54.803 --> 00:22:00.842
Know, we're nonpartisan, so whoever's in office, we're gonna
00:22:00.842 --> 00:22:03.612
Push them to be pro-religious freedom.
00:22:03.612 --> 00:22:05.480
And everybody was preparing for a hillary clinton presidency.
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:09.451
And then trump won.
00:22:09.451 --> 00:22:10.786
And we had an emergency meeting on what can we do in light of
00:22:10.786 --> 00:22:13.789
This administration that would have the greatest impact for
00:22:13.789 --> 00:22:16.425
Religious freedom?
00:22:16.425 --> 00:22:17.793
And we immediately saw 132 judicial seats open.
00:22:17.793 --> 00:22:21.763
And we said, that's it.
00:22:21.763 --> 00:22:23.665
I mean, one judge is lots of cases, hundreds of judges is a
00:22:23.665 --> 00:22:27.502
Lot of--
00:22:27.502 --> 00:22:28.870
This will affect religious--and they'll last 25, 30 years from
00:22:28.870 --> 00:22:31.440
Now, right?
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:32.774
So, we just started vetting.
00:22:32.774 --> 00:22:34.142
We thought it can't hurt.
00:22:34.142 --> 00:22:35.477
Let's look at all these people.
00:22:35.477 --> 00:22:36.845
Let's do the research.
00:22:36.845 --> 00:22:38.180
Let's provide the information so that we can pick the best judges
00:22:38.180 --> 00:22:42.083
Who are gonna be on there for life and that will follow the
00:22:42.083 --> 00:22:44.853
Constitution and religious freedom.
00:22:44.853 --> 00:22:46.721
And man, when you do that, it starts to change how the
00:22:46.721 --> 00:22:49.891
Decisions are coming down.
00:22:49.891 --> 00:22:51.259
And that's what we saw.
00:22:51.259 --> 00:22:52.627
And so, you know, again, we're doing it for religious freedom.
00:22:52.627 --> 00:22:56.398
But when you come to roe v. wade
00:22:56.398 --> 00:22:58.567
And you--what i tell people, and it's hard for them
00:22:58.567 --> 00:23:01.503
To understand this, but at that point, you know, five years ago,
00:23:01.503 --> 00:23:05.040
Whenever it was, when we had the right number when it was up,
00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:08.777
Maybe six years ago.
00:23:08.777 --> 00:23:10.579
It was the first time in probably 80 years that we had a
00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:15.183
Majority of justices who actually believe their job is to
00:23:15.183 --> 00:23:19.754
Find the original meaning of the text and follow it.
00:23:19.754 --> 00:23:23.158
Not read into it what they think with modern society, but
00:23:23.158 --> 00:23:27.295
Actually to go by what the original--and it's
00:23:27.295 --> 00:23:30.499
Called originalism.
00:23:30.499 --> 00:23:32.601
And it's like it doesn't matter what they want.
00:23:32.601 --> 00:23:35.737
They're not a legislature.
00:23:35.737 --> 00:23:37.506
It's a matter of what the original meaning of the
00:23:37.506 --> 00:23:39.574
Text was.
00:23:39.574 --> 00:23:40.942
And that's why you started to see these decisions.
00:23:40.942 --> 00:23:43.578
And then it's not just with the dobbs case that overturned
00:23:43.578 --> 00:23:46.915
Roe v. wade, because when you look at the constitution, it's
00:23:46.915 --> 00:23:49.584
Not in there.
00:23:49.584 --> 00:23:51.253
But religious freedom started to move in a whole
00:23:51.253 --> 00:23:53.321
Different direction.
00:23:53.321 --> 00:23:54.689
Because for a good number of years we had kind of the '60s
00:23:54.689 --> 00:23:57.559
And '70s and that whole attitude that got in and really gave the
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:01.897
Back of their hand to religious freedom.
00:24:01.897 --> 00:24:04.499
And we, for instance, nativity scenes started to be taken down
00:24:04.499 --> 00:24:09.738
Around christmas and menorahs around hanukkah and ten
00:24:09.738 --> 00:24:12.874
Commandments were pushed.
00:24:12.874 --> 00:24:14.509
And the beauty is we just won a case a few years ago, the coach
00:24:14.509 --> 00:24:17.913
Kennedy case.
00:24:17.913 --> 00:24:19.247
And most people know about coach and his prayer, but within it
00:24:19.247 --> 00:24:22.551
That old precedent that caused all these hostile things by the
00:24:22.551 --> 00:24:26.154
Government was reversed.
00:24:26.154 --> 00:24:28.456
So, you can literally have a nativity scene back up.
00:24:28.456 --> 00:24:31.259
You can have, you know, if you push the ten commandments in the
00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:33.461
Closet, you can bring it back out.
00:24:33.461 --> 00:24:35.196
I was just not too far from here at an installation of a ten
00:24:35.196 --> 00:24:39.034
Commandments monument in front of the tarrant
00:24:39.034 --> 00:24:41.570
County courthouse.
00:24:41.570 --> 00:24:42.904
And it's starting to happen all over the country.
00:24:42.904 --> 00:24:45.840
Kentucky on their state lawn, indiana starting their process.
00:24:45.840 --> 00:24:49.778
Well, that brings us back to our roots, the religious traditions,
00:24:49.778 --> 00:24:54.916
The whole mindset of how our country was formed and who we
00:24:54.916 --> 00:24:58.887
Really are.
00:24:58.887 --> 00:25:00.255
And so, we're seeing a shift now that, i think, most people
00:25:00.255 --> 00:25:03.992
Aren't aware of because they don't live in this arena.
00:25:03.992 --> 00:25:06.461
But it makes a big difference to have the right judges on the
00:25:06.461 --> 00:25:09.764
Court who aren't pushing their own agenda, they're gonna follow
00:25:09.764 --> 00:25:12.534
The constitution.
00:25:12.534 --> 00:25:13.969
And we're seeing the results of that.
00:25:13.969 --> 00:25:15.737
Matt: so, that was a preamble to answering my question.
00:25:15.737 --> 00:25:18.540
So, what happened at roe v. wade?
00:25:18.540 --> 00:25:20.342
Kelly: well, what happened with the dobbs case is they looked at
00:25:20.342 --> 00:25:23.778
Roe v. wade and they said, "this is not what the constitution
00:25:23.778 --> 00:25:27.582
Says, it's not in here."
00:25:27.582 --> 00:25:29.951
They said, "look, if something is not in the constitution, then
00:25:29.951 --> 00:25:33.254
That means it's left to the states to do how they want."
00:25:33.254 --> 00:25:37.125
So, they didn't say, "we're pro-life."
00:25:37.125 --> 00:25:39.995
They just didn't--they just took this decision that was made out
00:25:39.995 --> 00:25:44.299
Of thin air, roe v. wade.
00:25:44.299 --> 00:25:46.835
And by the way, there's lots of scholarship through the years of
00:25:46.835 --> 00:25:49.504
Liberals and, you know, very bright law professors on the
00:25:49.504 --> 00:25:53.108
Left saying, you know, it's really not there, and it doesn't
00:25:53.108 --> 00:25:57.479
Have a good analysis or--
00:25:57.479 --> 00:25:58.980
Matt: is there a short way of describing the logic that got
00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:03.852
Roe v. wade jammed in to even be heard by the supreme court?
00:26:03.852 --> 00:26:08.189
I heard that it was--
00:26:08.189 --> 00:26:09.524
Kelly: it was a lie.
00:26:09.524 --> 00:26:10.859
Matt: super thin, you know, being kind.
00:26:10.859 --> 00:26:13.728
It was super thin.
00:26:13.728 --> 00:26:15.163
Kelly: well, it was a lie.
00:26:15.163 --> 00:26:16.498
It was somebody coming in and saying that they were, you know,
00:26:16.498 --> 00:26:20.301
Raped and they were having a child.
00:26:20.301 --> 00:26:22.003
None of this stuff was true.
00:26:22.003 --> 00:26:24.239
And they set up this phantom case.
00:26:24.239 --> 00:26:27.042
And then they had to create, what they did is they said, i'll
00:26:27.042 --> 00:26:30.679
Use these are legal words but i can't describe it any way, but
00:26:30.679 --> 00:26:33.548
They're--it's not in there, but it really is because
00:26:33.548 --> 00:26:36.351
They're penumbras.
00:26:36.351 --> 00:26:37.686
Matt: what does that mean?
00:26:37.686 --> 00:26:39.054
Kelly: these little things that kind of, it's almost like a worm
00:26:39.054 --> 00:26:41.990
That comes out of the constitution that we don't see.
00:26:41.990 --> 00:26:44.826
So, what it doesn't say, that it protects abortion.
00:26:44.826 --> 00:26:49.764
Things like, we do have a right to privacy, and this is kind of
00:26:49.764 --> 00:26:52.934
A right to privacy.
00:26:52.934 --> 00:26:54.502
And we do have--so they just started creating this thing.
00:26:54.502 --> 00:26:58.039
Again, it's not in the constitution and--
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:00.442
Matt: and were they--my dad was from missouri.
00:27:00.442 --> 00:27:04.512
You say it's all bass-ackwards, you know?
00:27:04.512 --> 00:27:07.582
I mean, that they were really kind of coming at it because
00:27:07.582 --> 00:27:11.686
They knew they had the right supreme court justices.
00:27:11.686 --> 00:27:15.590
If they just got something there, it was going to work.
00:27:15.590 --> 00:27:19.427
Kelly: well, yeah, they were trying.
00:27:19.427 --> 00:27:20.762
They knew they had a liberal court that was kind of making it
00:27:20.762 --> 00:27:23.298
Up as they go.
00:27:23.298 --> 00:27:24.666
They, again, if you're not an originalist, then what
00:27:24.666 --> 00:27:27.535
You're doing--
00:27:27.535 --> 00:27:28.903
And again, let's step into their shoes and know how they're
00:27:28.903 --> 00:27:30.939
Thinking they're trying to do good.
00:27:30.939 --> 00:27:32.974
The job as the court is to do good.
00:27:32.974 --> 00:27:35.076
And so, this person was a victim, and they need to find a
00:27:35.076 --> 00:27:38.213
Way to protect all these women.
00:27:38.213 --> 00:27:41.583
And so, they would make these arguments about back alley
00:27:41.583 --> 00:27:43.818
Abortions and all these different things.
00:27:43.818 --> 00:27:46.821
And look, the whole point of law is it's not about how you feel.
00:27:46.821 --> 00:27:52.560
You know, it's about what the law says.
00:27:52.560 --> 00:27:55.029
And if you don't like the law as it is, you can change the law.
00:27:55.029 --> 00:27:58.867
What you don't want is judges changing the law.
00:27:58.867 --> 00:28:01.870
Because, you know, like supreme court justices aren't elected,
00:28:01.870 --> 00:28:05.006
You can't even do anything.
00:28:05.006 --> 00:28:06.341
There's no accountability there.
00:28:06.341 --> 00:28:07.709
We want our legislators to be the ones passing the laws
00:28:07.709 --> 00:28:11.045
Because, you know, we can throw them out of office every two
00:28:11.045 --> 00:28:13.214
Years in congress, right?
00:28:13.214 --> 00:28:14.749
That's how the founders wanted it.
00:28:14.749 --> 00:28:16.217
They wanted public policy formed by the people through their
00:28:16.217 --> 00:28:20.321
Representatives, not by, you know, five judges in a back
00:28:20.321 --> 00:28:24.959
Room that nobody sees determining what they want
00:28:24.959 --> 00:28:28.997
To do.
00:28:28.997 --> 00:28:30.331
That's not how it's supposed to work.
00:28:30.331 --> 00:28:31.699
Their job is to look at the law and to apply the law faithfully.
00:28:31.699 --> 00:28:36.337
What is the original meaning of the text?
00:28:36.337 --> 00:28:38.573
How does it apply in this situation?
00:28:38.573 --> 00:28:40.809
And then if you don't like it, justice thomas was real famous
00:28:40.809 --> 00:28:44.112
With this.
00:28:44.112 --> 00:28:45.446
There was a sodomy--an anti-sodomy law, which is about
00:28:45.446 --> 00:28:48.650
Homosexual sexual activity.
00:28:48.650 --> 00:28:50.819
And he said he thought it was a stupid law.
00:28:50.819 --> 00:28:53.454
But he said, but that's what it says, and there's nothing
00:28:53.454 --> 00:28:57.525
Unconstitutional about it, right?
00:28:57.525 --> 00:28:59.794
And that's a person who's like they're not pushing their
00:28:59.794 --> 00:29:02.430
Policy, they're saying this is what the law says and does this
00:29:02.430 --> 00:29:06.968
Law violate one of the provisions of the constitution?
00:29:06.968 --> 00:29:10.738
And he said it didn't because every--there's only certain
00:29:10.738 --> 00:29:13.741
Things in the constitution.
00:29:13.741 --> 00:29:15.443
And all the other things that aren't enumerated rights are
00:29:15.443 --> 00:29:19.781
Left to the states.
00:29:19.781 --> 00:29:21.115
I mean, this is kind of the laboratory of experimenting with
00:29:21.115 --> 00:29:24.285
These different ideas.
00:29:24.285 --> 00:29:25.620
And so, states have freedom and that's what we're seeing on the
00:29:25.620 --> 00:29:28.756
Issue of abortion is we're seeing state to state, there's,
00:29:28.756 --> 00:29:32.160
You know, if you're in one state, the law is very different
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:34.295
On that than you're in another state.
00:29:34.295 --> 00:29:36.231
Matt: you know, i think that's the greatest way to do it
00:29:36.231 --> 00:29:40.368
Because birds of a feather flock together.
00:29:40.368 --> 00:29:42.904
And if you have this kind of a mindset, go live in that state.
00:29:42.904 --> 00:29:46.241
If you have this kind of a mindset, go live in that state.
00:29:46.241 --> 00:29:48.676
Kelly: i think you see results, right?
00:29:48.676 --> 00:29:50.645
I guarantee you, i haven't seen studies, i'm sure they're
00:29:50.645 --> 00:29:52.747
Out there.
00:29:52.747 --> 00:29:54.115
If you compared states that are states of death versus states of
00:29:54.115 --> 00:29:59.621
States that protect life, i bet you you're gonna see more
00:29:59.621 --> 00:30:02.857
Blossoming, more blessing.
00:30:02.857 --> 00:30:05.360
But just because it's god's way, right?
00:30:05.360 --> 00:30:07.762
And so, those policies show different results, and so, you
00:30:07.762 --> 00:30:14.202
Know, i think that's what the founders were trying to do.
00:30:14.202 --> 00:30:17.538
But, you know, we could sure use more states that were places
00:30:17.538 --> 00:30:20.341
Of life.
00:30:20.341 --> 00:30:21.676
Laurie: yes, i love how we've taken the ten commandments, and
00:30:21.676 --> 00:30:26.047
Now we have hundreds of thousands of laws just out of
00:30:26.047 --> 00:30:31.819
The simple, "do not kill, do not take your neighbor's wife,"
00:30:31.819 --> 00:30:37.725
You know?
00:30:37.725 --> 00:30:39.060
Matt: wouldn't it be great if it was simpler.
00:30:39.060 --> 00:30:40.428
And the other thing is if i ever get powerful enough, i
00:30:40.428 --> 00:30:44.565
Wanna appoint you to a supreme court that deals with christian
00:30:44.565 --> 00:30:52.473
Doctrine, you know?
00:30:52.473 --> 00:30:54.842
I'm being facetious, but i--
00:30:54.842 --> 00:30:56.311
Kelly: i really don't think i wanna go into that one.
00:30:56.311 --> 00:30:57.946
Matt: well, but think of it, but think of it.
00:30:57.946 --> 00:31:01.082
There are some people on the supreme court that just says,
00:31:01.082 --> 00:31:05.053
"what do the word say and let's do that."
00:31:05.053 --> 00:31:07.522
What if there was some kind of a, quote, you know, "you can
00:31:07.522 --> 00:31:12.460
Never legislate morality," and i'm joking totally, but--
00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:15.697
Kelly: or biblical theology.
00:31:15.697 --> 00:31:17.832
Matt: but it feels like the system of the law got that
00:31:17.832 --> 00:31:23.838
Part right.
00:31:23.838 --> 00:31:25.173
Just what does the constitution say?
00:31:25.173 --> 00:31:27.075
What if we just all opened our bible and say, what do the
00:31:27.075 --> 00:31:29.644
Word say?
00:31:29.644 --> 00:31:30.979
Kelly: yes.
00:31:30.979 --> 00:31:32.313
Matt: you know, and do that or not do that?
00:31:32.313 --> 00:31:33.681
Kelly: no, no, it's people used to ask me why is this happening
00:31:33.681 --> 00:31:35.984
On the court?
00:31:35.984 --> 00:31:37.352
And they were really focusing on being negative about law and
00:31:37.352 --> 00:31:40.555
The courts.
00:31:40.555 --> 00:31:41.889
And i would always look back at them and i say, "it's no
00:31:41.889 --> 00:31:44.125
Different from what's happening in the churches."
00:31:44.125 --> 00:31:46.527
You know, when you start to move, when the whole mindset of
00:31:46.527 --> 00:31:48.663
The country moves into this evolutionary truth evolves, then
00:31:48.663 --> 00:31:54.435
It's the same treatment of the texas scripture as you're gonna
00:31:54.435 --> 00:31:57.438
See them do with the constitution.
00:31:57.438 --> 00:31:59.073
Matt: scripture is shakespeare, can be interpreted, you know?
00:31:59.073 --> 00:32:03.044
Not that that's what we're fighting against.
00:32:03.044 --> 00:32:06.180
And it feels like the law has that, a better handle on that
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:10.151
Than even christianity does.
00:32:10.151 --> 00:32:11.652
Kelly: well, it's coming back.
00:32:11.652 --> 00:32:12.987
It's coming--it's definitely coming back with
00:32:12.987 --> 00:32:14.355
This originalism.
00:32:14.355 --> 00:32:15.823
And i think we're seeing some similar things happening, you
00:32:15.823 --> 00:32:19.527
Know, spiritually, especially with young men flooding into
00:32:19.527 --> 00:32:22.263
The churches.
00:32:22.263 --> 00:32:23.631
There's really something going on.
00:32:23.631 --> 00:32:25.033
You know i kept wondering, you know, charlie kirk was a dear
00:32:25.033 --> 00:32:29.370
Friend of mine.
00:32:29.370 --> 00:32:30.705
And the last time we were together before his
00:32:30.705 --> 00:32:33.274
Assassination, i said, "man, i'm just seeing all these dramatic
00:32:33.274 --> 00:32:38.279
Gains we're making in the religious freedom arena, and
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:40.815
I've been trying to figure out is it because it's just gonna
00:32:40.815 --> 00:32:43.851
Get so hostile that we're gonna need the protection, or is a
00:32:43.851 --> 00:32:47.121
Third great awakening coming, you know?"
00:32:47.121 --> 00:32:50.224
And by that time when i was with charlie, i'd come to the
00:32:50.224 --> 00:32:53.227
Conclusion, and he had the same, that a third great awakening was
00:32:53.227 --> 00:32:56.864
Coming with these young people.
00:32:56.864 --> 00:32:58.666
And it just--you know, my job as a religious freedom lawyer is
00:32:58.666 --> 00:33:02.503
To open the gates because they're coming behind me.
00:33:02.503 --> 00:33:05.440
And that's what god is doing.
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:06.874
He's just, if you watch all these big decisions, i mean, i
00:33:06.874 --> 00:33:10.678
Mentioned two there, you know, we've had 11 in the last like 7
00:33:10.678 --> 00:33:14.482
Or 8 years, but there are other ones in addition to that, and
00:33:14.482 --> 00:33:17.985
It's amazing what's happened.
00:33:17.985 --> 00:33:19.787
Things that i didn't think possible in my lifetime in the
00:33:19.787 --> 00:33:23.825
Religious liberty arena, precedents that i thought
00:33:23.825 --> 00:33:26.794
Were impenetrable.
00:33:26.794 --> 00:33:28.196
Like that lemon case that we overturned in the coach kennedy
00:33:28.196 --> 00:33:30.965
Case had been cited 7,000 times in the last 50 years to push
00:33:30.965 --> 00:33:37.038
Down religious expression in public,
00:33:37.038 --> 00:33:39.107
And it's gone, it's gone.
00:33:39.107 --> 00:33:41.776
Matt: so, scripture is not shakespeare, it cannot be
00:33:41.776 --> 00:33:48.816
Interpreted in that way, or changed, or modified based on--
00:33:48.816 --> 00:33:52.920
It's just what do the word say and what is that gonna be.
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:57.825
Tell me a little bit about shea encinas.
00:33:57.825 --> 00:34:01.929
Kelly: it's an incredible case.
00:34:01.929 --> 00:34:03.564
Matt: that case that you're working on.
00:34:03.564 --> 00:34:04.932
Kelly: in fact, i would encourage people to pray for
00:34:04.932 --> 00:34:06.267
These families because they're still in the middle of
00:34:06.267 --> 00:34:07.869
This case.
00:34:07.869 --> 00:34:09.337
This is a class, the whole--all the 5th graders were ordered to
00:34:09.337 --> 00:34:13.474
Read a book called "my shadow is pink" to their
00:34:13.474 --> 00:34:16.444
Kindergarten buddy.
00:34:16.444 --> 00:34:18.012
So, they're pushing gender ideology and forcing a little
00:34:18.012 --> 00:34:21.516
Kindergartner to pick what sex they want to be.
00:34:21.516 --> 00:34:25.186
And shea and another young boy said, "i--we can't do this to
00:34:25.186 --> 00:34:28.723
Our kindergarten buddy" and went home to their parents, and the
00:34:28.723 --> 00:34:32.693
Parents came to the school and said, "look, number one, you
00:34:32.693 --> 00:34:35.496
Need to be notifying parents if you're gonna do something
00:34:35.496 --> 00:34:38.366
Like this.
00:34:38.366 --> 00:34:39.700
But number two, our children need a religious exemption
00:34:39.700 --> 00:34:42.069
Because this would violate their faith."
00:34:42.069 --> 00:34:44.205
The school's answer was, "you have no right to be notified,
00:34:44.205 --> 00:34:47.975
And we're not giving religious exemptions.
00:34:47.975 --> 00:34:49.644
Matt: where was this?
00:34:49.644 --> 00:34:51.546
Kelly: california, and so we went into court.
00:34:51.546 --> 00:34:56.284
And you know, california is not a real conservative place.
00:34:56.284 --> 00:34:59.353
We got a democrat federal judge and that judge ruled this
00:34:59.353 --> 00:35:03.491
Is unconstitutional.
00:35:03.491 --> 00:35:05.126
You cannot, you do have to notify the parents and you have
00:35:05.126 --> 00:35:09.564
To provide an exemption for religious freedom.
00:35:09.564 --> 00:35:12.166
And they bullied this little 11-year-old boy.
00:35:12.166 --> 00:35:15.970
They held a pink out the hate day as a way to school to try to
00:35:15.970 --> 00:35:20.741
Really bully him and his friend.
00:35:20.741 --> 00:35:24.512
And, you know--
00:35:24.512 --> 00:35:25.846
Laurie: could you tell us what school that was?
00:35:25.846 --> 00:35:27.215
Kelly: it's in encinitas.
00:35:27.215 --> 00:35:29.250
Matt: good lord.
00:35:29.250 --> 00:35:30.585
And so, we won.
00:35:30.585 --> 00:35:32.086
You'd think, "okay, we won in federal court."
00:35:32.086 --> 00:35:34.422
They're now appealing.
00:35:34.422 --> 00:35:35.923
And they're now deposing these children trying to, you
00:35:35.923 --> 00:35:39.493
Know, attack.
00:35:39.493 --> 00:35:40.861
And so they're in the middle of all this, but i'll tell you, one
00:35:40.861 --> 00:35:43.764
Of the most powerful things i've seen in the last, i don't know
00:35:43.764 --> 00:35:46.567
How many years, is we have a religious liberty commission
00:35:46.567 --> 00:35:50.071
That the president created, never been one in the country.
00:35:50.071 --> 00:35:53.341
And it's people like ben carson, myself, you know, eric metaxas,
00:35:53.341 --> 00:35:58.446
Franklin graham, cardinal dolan.
00:35:58.446 --> 00:36:00.781
I mean it's just a great group of people and taking testimony
00:36:00.781 --> 00:36:03.818
And we're gonna give recommendations to
00:36:03.818 --> 00:36:05.219
The president.
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:06.587
Well, we had one on the rights of parents and religious freedom
00:36:06.587 --> 00:36:10.057
In the school.
00:36:10.057 --> 00:36:11.392
And there were 12 people set to testify, and the president
00:36:11.392 --> 00:36:14.562
Shows up.
00:36:14.562 --> 00:36:16.297
And he, out of all the people, he calls on little shea.
00:36:16.297 --> 00:36:20.067
He says, shea, come up, tell your story.
00:36:20.067 --> 00:36:23.104
And shea walks by.
00:36:23.104 --> 00:36:24.505
This is the presidential podium you're not supposed to be behind
00:36:24.505 --> 00:36:27.074
With the seal and everything, right?
00:36:27.074 --> 00:36:29.143
Well, trump doesn't-- he didn't care, right?
00:36:29.143 --> 00:36:30.911
So, he has him come behind.
00:36:30.911 --> 00:36:32.546
He's--in order for him to see over the podium, they had to get
00:36:32.546 --> 00:36:35.650
A stool for him to stand on so he could speak over the podium.
00:36:35.650 --> 00:36:39.787
And he gives a 37 second speech that is just, you're just, it
00:36:39.787 --> 00:36:45.293
Was mouth dry.
00:36:45.293 --> 00:36:46.627
You were just like, good night.
00:36:46.627 --> 00:36:48.329
That was unbelievable.
00:36:48.329 --> 00:36:50.164
And i know we provided that to you guys to be able to show
00:36:50.164 --> 00:36:53.367
People, it's just amazing to see these heroes, including a little
00:36:53.367 --> 00:36:59.940
11-year-old boy.
00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:01.475
Shea encinas: hi, i'm' shea encinas.
00:37:01.475 --> 00:37:03.144
I've been a christian my whole life, and jesus means everything
00:37:03.144 --> 00:37:05.680
To me.
00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:07.048
When i was in 5th grade, my school forced me to teach my
00:37:07.048 --> 00:37:09.383
Kindergarten buddy about changing his gender using a book
00:37:09.383 --> 00:37:12.453
Called "my shadow is pink."
00:37:12.453 --> 00:37:14.155
The book said you can choose your gender based on feelings
00:37:14.155 --> 00:37:17.058
Instead of how god made us.
00:37:17.058 --> 00:37:18.759
I knew this was not right, but i was afraid of getting
00:37:18.759 --> 00:37:21.262
In trouble.
00:37:21.262 --> 00:37:22.763
After my family spoke up, the school treated us badly, and
00:37:22.763 --> 00:37:26.200
Kids started bullying me and my brother because of our faith,
00:37:26.200 --> 00:37:29.270
And the school did nothing to stop it.
00:37:29.270 --> 00:37:31.339
It hurt a lot, but i kept trusting god.
00:37:31.339 --> 00:37:34.475
I believe kids like me should be able to live our faith at school
00:37:34.475 --> 00:37:38.112
Without being forced to go against what we believe.
00:37:38.112 --> 00:37:40.781
I hope no other family has to go through what mine did.
00:37:40.781 --> 00:37:43.384
Thank you.
00:37:43.384 --> 00:37:45.886
Kelly: and i'll tell you, the other thing that was really neat
00:37:45.886 --> 00:37:47.488
Is after the president left, they have to--there's a lot of
00:37:47.488 --> 00:37:50.925
Security and stuff that goes so it took like an hour for us to
00:37:50.925 --> 00:37:53.427
Start our hearing again after the president left.
00:37:53.427 --> 00:37:55.596
We had shea and his mom as one of the people testifying.
00:37:55.596 --> 00:37:59.433
And his mom is an incredible woman, started to tell the story
00:37:59.433 --> 00:38:03.971
And would start to weep.
00:38:03.971 --> 00:38:05.840
And this little boy would put his arms around his mom, and he
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:09.410
Would start to speak because she couldn't.
00:38:09.410 --> 00:38:11.645
And then when he saw she was okay, she would start back and
00:38:11.645 --> 00:38:16.050
She would start to weep again and he would--
00:38:16.050 --> 00:38:18.686
It was one of the more touching, powerful things that you've
00:38:18.686 --> 00:38:22.690
Ever seen.
00:38:22.690 --> 00:38:24.024
So, just as i said, these people are heroes and shea's a hero.
00:38:24.024 --> 00:38:28.662
And this is about the authority of parents over their children,
00:38:28.662 --> 00:38:32.099
The right of parents to protect their children.
00:38:32.099 --> 00:38:34.535
And, again, so far we've won, but it just shows you these
00:38:34.535 --> 00:38:37.838
People are not giving up, they're gonna keep fighting.
00:38:37.838 --> 00:38:40.341
Laurie: what's this new law in california that they've just
00:38:40.341 --> 00:38:42.810
Passed about them not having to tell the parents?
00:38:42.810 --> 00:38:47.581
Kelly: well, what they did is in another school district they
00:38:47.581 --> 00:38:52.353
Were trying to transition people's children to another sex
00:38:52.353 --> 00:38:56.257
And they were specifically not notifying the parents.
00:38:56.257 --> 00:38:59.260
They were keeping them in the dark.
00:38:59.260 --> 00:39:01.061
An emergency motion went up to the supreme court.
00:39:01.061 --> 00:39:04.765
And those are not really precedent, like they're not,
00:39:04.765 --> 00:39:07.501
Because there was no real argument or whatever, but when
00:39:07.501 --> 00:39:09.937
The court just saw the briefs, they immediately said that's
00:39:09.937 --> 00:39:13.340
Unconstitutional and send it back down.
00:39:13.340 --> 00:39:16.043
Because i think they realized if we wait, there'd be a lot of
00:39:16.043 --> 00:39:18.846
Harm to kids.
00:39:18.846 --> 00:39:20.181
And so, they sent a message.
00:39:20.181 --> 00:39:22.383
I think we're gonna get one of these kind of cases up
00:39:22.383 --> 00:39:24.852
There soon.
00:39:24.852 --> 00:39:26.220
Again, it goes back to the whole point is our children in this
00:39:26.220 --> 00:39:31.425
Country are not children of the state.
00:39:31.425 --> 00:39:33.661
They're children of the parents.
00:39:33.661 --> 00:39:35.262
The parents are the ones with the fundamental right to direct
00:39:35.262 --> 00:39:38.432
The upbringing and the education and the faith of
00:39:38.432 --> 00:39:40.634
Their children.
00:39:40.634 --> 00:39:42.002
And the government has no authority to interfere between a
00:39:42.002 --> 00:39:44.805
Parent and their child on those things.
00:39:44.805 --> 00:39:47.208
And so, this is a really important right.
00:39:47.208 --> 00:39:49.844
But in the past, the only time we had seen that come up is when
00:39:49.844 --> 00:39:53.881
The government was maybe trying to take a child from somebody.
00:39:53.881 --> 00:39:57.117
And, of course, there's a high level of proof of danger,
00:39:57.117 --> 00:39:59.954
Physical and other danger to the child.
00:39:59.954 --> 00:40:01.922
And the only other situation was we had cases back in the 1920s
00:40:01.922 --> 00:40:06.327
And '30s where states were trying to say, you can't--you
00:40:06.327 --> 00:40:10.498
Have to put your children in a public school.
00:40:10.498 --> 00:40:13.701
And they were like, "wait, i've got them in a religious school."
00:40:13.701 --> 00:40:16.804
And they said, "well, we the state are in control," and the
00:40:16.804 --> 00:40:19.640
Supreme court said, "no, no, the parents are the authority, they
00:40:19.640 --> 00:40:23.844
Have the fundamental rights."
00:40:23.844 --> 00:40:25.679
But we've never had these cases until just now, just over the
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:29.917
Last couple of years on what if you are in the public schools?
00:40:29.917 --> 00:40:34.555
Do you still keep your parental rights?
00:40:34.555 --> 00:40:36.323
You know, because they'll say, "oh, i'm just standing in for
00:40:36.323 --> 00:40:38.559
You as a parent," the public school.
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:41.095
It's like, "wait, that doesn't work."
00:40:41.095 --> 00:40:43.097
Through compulsory attendance laws you're forcing these kids
00:40:43.097 --> 00:40:46.634
Into the public school.
00:40:46.634 --> 00:40:47.968
And then you're saying the parents give up their rights.
00:40:47.968 --> 00:40:50.871
And that doesn't work.
00:40:50.871 --> 00:40:52.573
And the supreme court said, just a little over a year ago in a
00:40:52.573 --> 00:40:56.977
Case called mahmood, where they tried to really teach a bunch
00:40:56.977 --> 00:41:01.515
Of, really, gender ideology and all these things to
00:41:01.515 --> 00:41:04.752
Little children.
00:41:04.752 --> 00:41:06.086
You had muslim parents, jewish parents, christian parents all
00:41:06.086 --> 00:41:11.058
Come together and say no.
00:41:11.058 --> 00:41:13.561
And the supreme court ruled in their favor and said, "you have
00:41:13.561 --> 00:41:16.297
To notify parents if you're gonna do something like this.
00:41:16.297 --> 00:41:19.233
And number two, they have a right to religious exemption to
00:41:19.233 --> 00:41:22.036
Not be underneath that."
00:41:22.036 --> 00:41:24.038
Matt: i'm grateful that common sense shows up occasionally, in
00:41:24.038 --> 00:41:28.442
Some of these decisions.
00:41:28.442 --> 00:41:31.078
Because can you imagine an easier way to start a civil war
00:41:31.078 --> 00:41:35.015
Than taking kids away and doing that kind of stuff.
00:41:35.015 --> 00:41:38.319
That would be rough--
00:41:38.319 --> 00:41:40.487
Kelly: and people, you know, people talk, especially in
00:41:40.487 --> 00:41:42.723
Religious circles, they talk about not wanting to be involved
00:41:42.723 --> 00:41:45.125
In politics or whatever.
00:41:45.125 --> 00:41:47.094
That was because of the justices that were on the supreme court.
00:41:47.094 --> 00:41:50.064
That was not a majority decision, right?
00:41:50.064 --> 00:41:52.433
If you'd had a different president, you'd have had
00:41:52.433 --> 00:41:55.069
Different justices, and they would have probably ruled
00:41:55.069 --> 00:41:57.204
Against the parents.
00:41:57.204 --> 00:41:58.739
So, thank the lord that we have people on the courts right now
00:41:58.739 --> 00:42:03.577
Who are defending parental rights because it's what our
00:42:03.577 --> 00:42:06.513
Country was built on.
00:42:06.513 --> 00:42:07.881
Who are defending religious freedoms because it could have
00:42:07.881 --> 00:42:11.118
Been different than that.
00:42:11.118 --> 00:42:12.553
And we were veering in a bad direction, i think, until that
00:42:12.553 --> 00:42:16.924
Change of starting to get much better judges on the court who
00:42:16.924 --> 00:42:19.693
Follow the constitution.
00:42:19.693 --> 00:42:21.862
And again, the good news is now, we are really moving in a
00:42:21.862 --> 00:42:25.232
Great direction.
00:42:25.232 --> 00:42:26.600
And again, my only question had been why.
00:42:26.600 --> 00:42:29.803
Why are you--i know god, you're doing this because this is
00:42:29.803 --> 00:42:32.706
Too much.
00:42:32.706 --> 00:42:34.074
I'm watching too many things happen.
00:42:34.074 --> 00:42:35.509
And, you know, we won like, you know, again, 6,000 requests.
00:42:35.509 --> 00:42:41.649
They took 56 last year.
00:42:41.649 --> 00:42:43.450
We had 4 wins at the supreme court in 13 months.
00:42:43.450 --> 00:42:47.554
And i mean, that's just not possible.
00:42:47.554 --> 00:42:50.057
But when god's doing something, it's possible, and so that's
00:42:50.057 --> 00:42:53.260
What's happened.
00:42:53.260 --> 00:42:54.595
Matt: i like this third great awakening issue.
00:42:54.595 --> 00:42:57.498
Tell me about pastor avell.
00:42:57.498 --> 00:43:00.134
Kelly: pastor chris is a great guy.
00:43:00.134 --> 00:43:02.236
He was an atheist who was kind of attacking of christians.
00:43:02.236 --> 00:43:07.875
And he and his wife slowly were brought to the lord by somebody
00:43:07.875 --> 00:43:12.980
At another church, shockingly.
00:43:12.980 --> 00:43:15.149
One of those great stories.
00:43:15.149 --> 00:43:16.717
And his calling is really for the down and out.
00:43:16.717 --> 00:43:19.153
And so, he opened a church in a downtown area in bryan, ohio.
00:43:19.153 --> 00:43:24.925
And, you know, just really saved people's lives.
00:43:24.925 --> 00:43:29.096
People who were coming in, who really, you know, had no
00:43:29.096 --> 00:43:32.399
Purpose, nowhere to go.
00:43:32.399 --> 00:43:34.768
You know, it gets cold up there.
00:43:34.768 --> 00:43:37.037
And so, he was actually sentenced.
00:43:37.037 --> 00:43:39.573
This is the pastor.
00:43:39.573 --> 00:43:40.941
We're seeing criminal actions against pastors.
00:43:40.941 --> 00:43:44.378
We've never seen this before.
00:43:44.378 --> 00:43:45.713
It's happening.
00:43:45.713 --> 00:43:47.081
We have numerous cases all of a sudden.
00:43:47.081 --> 00:43:49.283
He was--they came in on sunday morning with 19 criminal charges
00:43:49.283 --> 00:43:53.787
Against pastor chris, why?
00:43:53.787 --> 00:43:56.990
You think he must have done something bad.
00:43:56.990 --> 00:43:58.926
Because he refused to lock the doors of his church when it was
00:43:58.926 --> 00:44:01.995
Negative 25 wind chill and there were people outside his doors on
00:44:01.995 --> 00:44:05.566
The street freezing to death.
00:44:05.566 --> 00:44:08.769
They said you're not licensed to be a homeless center.
00:44:08.769 --> 00:44:12.906
Matt: oh, come on.
00:44:12.906 --> 00:44:14.274
Kelly: yeah, and then meanwhile, the homeless center was full,
00:44:14.274 --> 00:44:16.410
And he said, "jesus doesn't lock the doors of his church."
00:44:16.410 --> 00:44:20.781
Laurie: what in the world?
00:44:20.781 --> 00:44:22.116
Kelly: and so this has been three years of litigation, civil
00:44:22.116 --> 00:44:24.485
To shut the church down, criminal against him.
00:44:24.485 --> 00:44:28.122
We've been defending him the whole way.
00:44:28.122 --> 00:44:30.257
We just won the civil side of the lawsuit, but the criminal is
00:44:30.257 --> 00:44:33.727
Still going.
00:44:33.727 --> 00:44:35.062
We've gotten a stay on the 60 days in jail.
00:44:35.062 --> 00:44:37.798
And we're seeing this against pastors for feeding people.
00:44:37.798 --> 00:44:42.603
You know, against a church that maybe provides, you know, a
00:44:42.603 --> 00:44:47.941
Place for people to come for a few weeks if they're maybe
00:44:47.941 --> 00:44:51.011
Homeless and they're gonna get them into apartments.
00:44:51.011 --> 00:44:53.747
And all these things that you would want your pastor doing,
00:44:53.747 --> 00:44:56.650
You would want your church doing--
00:44:56.650 --> 00:44:57.985
Laurie: it's the role of the church.
00:44:57.985 --> 00:44:59.319
Kelly: yes, and criminally going after the pastor.
00:44:59.319 --> 00:45:02.356
Laurie: my goodness.
00:45:02.356 --> 00:45:03.690
Kelly: now we're winning these, but--
00:45:03.690 --> 00:45:05.058
Matt: i withdraw my statement where common sense is
00:45:05.058 --> 00:45:06.527
Sometimes stepping in.
00:45:06.527 --> 00:45:08.028
I withdraw that statement completely.
00:45:08.028 --> 00:45:11.131
Laurie: you know, i just, the government has pushed into the
00:45:11.131 --> 00:45:14.234
Church so hard.
00:45:14.234 --> 00:45:15.769
Matt: yeah, the church isn't becoming political.
00:45:15.769 --> 00:45:18.205
Political things are walking into our world.
00:45:18.205 --> 00:45:21.441
We're going, wait a second, back off.
00:45:21.441 --> 00:45:23.710
Kelly: yes, you've got to stand.
00:45:23.710 --> 00:45:25.612
Matt: hold on now.
00:45:25.612 --> 00:45:26.947
Kelly: we've got to stand up.
00:45:26.947 --> 00:45:28.315
And this is a whole--we call this whole arena because this is
00:45:28.315 --> 00:45:30.617
All new, and i've been doing this for 37 years.
00:45:30.617 --> 00:45:33.287
We call it criminalizing compassion.
00:45:33.287 --> 00:45:35.455
Matt: where does pastor avell's case stand?
00:45:35.455 --> 00:45:38.692
Where do we-- what's next for him?
00:45:38.692 --> 00:45:40.627
He is--it was in--all this happened in state court because,
00:45:40.627 --> 00:45:43.764
As you can imagine in this city, the city that is against him
00:45:43.764 --> 00:45:48.235
Also has a lot of influence over the judges who are city judges.
00:45:48.235 --> 00:45:52.606
So, that's where the criminal and the civil case started.
00:45:52.606 --> 00:45:56.310
Again, we've won the civil case.
00:45:56.310 --> 00:45:58.478
The criminal case though, we had to stop the jailing of this guy.
00:45:58.478 --> 00:46:02.616
So, we went--we're at the state court of appeals.
00:46:02.616 --> 00:46:05.519
I'll tell you a great story.
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:07.354
The attorney general of ohio is a good christian man.
00:46:07.354 --> 00:46:12.526
And we went to him and said, "you need to know this is going
00:46:12.526 --> 00:46:14.962
On in your state."
00:46:14.962 --> 00:46:16.563
And so, at a point when pastor chris was really down because
00:46:16.563 --> 00:46:20.834
All these decisions were coming against him, the attorney
00:46:20.834 --> 00:46:25.172
General of the state of ohio went down to just to visit
00:46:25.172 --> 00:46:27.908
The center.
00:46:27.908 --> 00:46:29.276
And as he was leaving, he turned to our attorneys with tears in
00:46:29.276 --> 00:46:31.845
His eyes and he said, because he had seen, he talked to the
00:46:31.845 --> 00:46:35.048
People, he saw what was happening, he said, "i'm with
00:46:35.048 --> 00:46:37.384
You from now on."
00:46:37.384 --> 00:46:38.886
And then so, we now have it's not just us and pastor chris,
00:46:38.886 --> 00:46:42.456
It's the state of ohio is with us against this city as we go
00:46:42.456 --> 00:46:46.293
Into the appeal, which is really helpful, obviously.
00:46:46.293 --> 00:46:50.063
So, it's important, again, for believers to run for office.
00:46:50.063 --> 00:46:54.801
We're grateful that we have people like that.
00:46:54.801 --> 00:46:56.436
Matt: and his church is in sodom or gomorrah?
00:46:56.436 --> 00:46:59.039
Which one is it in?
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:00.374
I'm not sure.
00:47:00.374 --> 00:47:02.042
Okay, rabbi hertzel.
00:47:02.042 --> 00:47:03.877
Kelly: oh yeah.
00:47:03.877 --> 00:47:05.646
We have a whole slew of cases where we're defending
00:47:05.646 --> 00:47:08.348
Jewish synagogues.
00:47:08.348 --> 00:47:09.716
Just their right to like be a synagogue.
00:47:09.716 --> 00:47:13.120
And rabbi hertzel is a guy who, he owns a piece of land.
00:47:13.120 --> 00:47:17.925
You can build whatever you want on the land.
00:47:17.925 --> 00:47:19.893
You can build your house, a business, your church.
00:47:19.893 --> 00:47:22.496
There's only one thing you're not allowed to build:
00:47:22.496 --> 00:47:24.932
A synagogue.
00:47:24.932 --> 00:47:26.300
And you say, "well, how could that be?"
00:47:26.300 --> 00:47:27.868
Well, at the public meeting, you don't have to guess.
00:47:27.868 --> 00:47:29.903
They said, "we don't want those kind of people, jews, in
00:47:29.903 --> 00:47:33.540
Our neighborhood."
00:47:33.540 --> 00:47:34.875
And then one of them went on to say, "hitler should have
00:47:34.875 --> 00:47:37.411
Finished the job."
00:47:37.411 --> 00:47:39.179
Okay, so this is, so we went to them and said, look, we've got
00:47:39.179 --> 00:47:43.016
All this evidence.
00:47:43.016 --> 00:47:44.952
Let's let the rabbi build a synagogue.
00:47:44.952 --> 00:47:46.787
And they said, "sue us."
00:47:46.787 --> 00:47:49.456
We said, "sure."
00:47:49.456 --> 00:47:51.258
Matt: so, we're still in sodom or gomorrah?
00:47:51.258 --> 00:47:54.127
Kelly: so, we're in federal court.
00:47:54.127 --> 00:47:55.495
I mean, rabbi hertzel just had to go through depositions over
00:47:55.495 --> 00:47:58.832
Whether you can deny them because they're jewish, you
00:47:58.832 --> 00:48:01.301
Know, the right to build a synagogue.
00:48:01.301 --> 00:48:02.769
Matt: no joke.
00:48:02.769 --> 00:48:04.104
What city are you talking about?
00:48:04.104 --> 00:48:05.472
Kelly: this is-- and it's in florida.
00:48:05.472 --> 00:48:06.807
It's in--it's outside boca raton.
00:48:06.807 --> 00:48:08.175
Yeah, so it happens everywhere.
00:48:08.175 --> 00:48:11.712
That's what i tell people.
00:48:11.712 --> 00:48:13.046
It's that there's nowhere you can avoid these things.
00:48:13.046 --> 00:48:15.816
You know, you can find it in the south, you can find it in the
00:48:15.816 --> 00:48:17.884
North, you can find it.
00:48:17.884 --> 00:48:19.252
I mean, the case i mentioned that we talked about earlier,
00:48:19.252 --> 00:48:21.121
Gabe olivier, where they had the 10 by 10 box, you would think
00:48:21.121 --> 00:48:24.925
That's in the north somewhere, wouldn't you?
00:48:24.925 --> 00:48:27.160
It's in mississippi, okay?
00:48:27.160 --> 00:48:29.596
All it takes is a city to decide, i don't like that,
00:48:29.596 --> 00:48:32.532
You know?
00:48:32.532 --> 00:48:33.867
Why would bryan, ohio be against pastor chris avell?
00:48:33.867 --> 00:48:36.937
Because it doesn't make a lot of sense.
00:48:36.937 --> 00:48:38.839
But i've seen this enough.
00:48:38.839 --> 00:48:40.440
What happens a lot is even in conservative areas they say, you
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:43.610
Know what?
00:48:43.610 --> 00:48:44.945
If we can just get rid of this church, or this homeless
00:48:44.945 --> 00:48:47.681
Shelter, then these people will either die or leave, and we
00:48:47.681 --> 00:48:52.419
Won't have that in our downtown.
00:48:52.419 --> 00:48:54.521
And so you see it everywhere.
00:48:54.521 --> 00:48:55.856
Laurie: i love what tim timberlake said the other day.
00:48:55.856 --> 00:48:57.758
He said the truth either sets you free or it triggers you.
00:48:57.758 --> 00:49:02.396
These people can't take the truth of the word.
00:49:02.396 --> 00:49:05.399
Matt: final one, marisol castro.
00:49:05.399 --> 00:49:08.035
Kelly: yes, just a great woman, teacher for about 30 years of
00:49:08.035 --> 00:49:11.705
Young children.
00:49:11.705 --> 00:49:13.673
And at the school there, this is in connecticut, they have a
00:49:13.673 --> 00:49:16.543
Bulletin board behind their desk that has all kinds of personal
00:49:16.543 --> 00:49:19.746
Stuff, yankees pennants, you know, it's up in connecticut.
00:49:19.746 --> 00:49:23.083
And, you know yoda's, you could have a, you know, an lgbt
00:49:23.083 --> 00:49:26.853
Flag, whatever.
00:49:26.853 --> 00:49:28.255
She has a cross about this big that's just a part of the whole
00:49:28.255 --> 00:49:31.358
Bulletin board.
00:49:31.358 --> 00:49:32.759
Principal and hr director come in and say, "you gotta take that
00:49:32.759 --> 00:49:35.962
Cross down or we're gonna fire you, we're gonna take away your
00:49:35.962 --> 00:49:39.699
Pension, everything's gonna be gone."
00:49:39.699 --> 00:49:42.002
Well, she's terrified.
00:49:42.002 --> 00:49:43.470
And so, she agrees to put it under her desk where nobody can
00:49:43.470 --> 00:49:47.074
See it.
00:49:47.074 --> 00:49:48.408
And so, she goes home and she has a very thick hispanic accent
00:49:48.408 --> 00:49:51.978
And she immediately-- she tells the story.
00:49:51.978 --> 00:49:54.147
She said, "i just started weeping."
00:49:54.147 --> 00:49:56.083
She said, "papa god, i did wrong.
00:49:56.083 --> 00:49:59.252
I did wrong.
00:49:59.252 --> 00:50:00.587
I hid the cross."
00:50:00.587 --> 00:50:01.955
She said, "i'm gonna go back tomorrow and i'm gonna fix it."
00:50:01.955 --> 00:50:04.191
And so, she went back, she put that cross back up, they walked
00:50:04.191 --> 00:50:08.395
Her out of school with all of her stuff in a box like she was
00:50:08.395 --> 00:50:11.064
A criminal.
00:50:11.064 --> 00:50:12.532
And again we went up to the court, in federal court,
00:50:12.532 --> 00:50:17.404
In connecticut.
00:50:17.404 --> 00:50:19.005
We got a judge that evidently can't read supreme court cases
00:50:19.005 --> 00:50:22.943
Because we have already won the coach kennedy case, right?
00:50:22.943 --> 00:50:26.413
So, teachers, coaches do have a right to live out their faith.
00:50:26.413 --> 00:50:32.385
That was all ignored and they ruled against marisol so we're
00:50:32.385 --> 00:50:35.188
Now at the court of appeals.
00:50:35.188 --> 00:50:37.591
One of the things that i would encourage people with though is
00:50:37.591 --> 00:50:40.060
We had 500 cases last year.
00:50:40.060 --> 00:50:42.195
We, you know, we have about that many every year.
00:50:42.195 --> 00:50:44.865
Our win right now every year for 26 years in a row has been above
00:50:44.865 --> 00:50:49.269
90% every year.
00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:51.338
So, we plan to win marisol's case.
00:50:51.338 --> 00:50:53.773
We plan to win all these cases, and by the grace of god we will
00:50:53.773 --> 00:50:58.378
Win all these cases.
00:50:58.378 --> 00:50:59.746
And so, you just gotta fight, you gotta--it's like you said
00:50:59.746 --> 00:51:02.182
At the beginning, we just-- people have to stand up and they
00:51:02.182 --> 00:51:05.018
Have to stay standing up.
00:51:05.018 --> 00:51:06.553
We're gonna win by the time we finish.
00:51:06.553 --> 00:51:08.121
Matt: we started the broadcast with the production that you
00:51:08.121 --> 00:51:12.659
Brought us and talking about the 250th year.
00:51:12.659 --> 00:51:16.263
We started by saying something to the effect of you've got
00:51:16.263 --> 00:51:19.132
To keep, you know, pushing back on this, the freedom isn't free,
00:51:19.132 --> 00:51:24.371
As it were.
00:51:24.371 --> 00:51:26.273
And so, we end up needing kind of a closing argument.
00:51:26.273 --> 00:51:30.777
Do you know what those are?
00:51:30.777 --> 00:51:32.112
You've heard of that, right?
00:51:32.112 --> 00:51:33.480
Kelly: you have to teach me on that.
00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:34.814
Matt: okay, closing argument if you would, kelly.
00:51:34.814 --> 00:51:39.686
And kind of what we, you know, here we are approaching the
00:51:39.686 --> 00:51:46.660
250th year thing.
00:51:46.660 --> 00:51:48.695
It's gonna be celebrated for a long time.
00:51:48.695 --> 00:51:51.198
I hope there's celebrations, you know, for a long time going on.
00:51:51.198 --> 00:51:59.673
But you know, i'm encouraged, this third great awakening, you
00:51:59.673 --> 00:52:04.211
Know, think of what's happening, you know, as part of the 250
00:52:04.211 --> 00:52:09.416
With the rededication at the mall and tbn is going to be
00:52:09.416 --> 00:52:13.453
Broadcasting live from that.
00:52:13.453 --> 00:52:18.225
Great stuff is happening.
00:52:18.225 --> 00:52:20.627
But just your closing argument here.
00:52:20.627 --> 00:52:22.195
Kelly: well, i think, again, this is why we did the video to
00:52:22.195 --> 00:52:25.832
Start today.
00:52:25.832 --> 00:52:28.001
Is most people don't realize that religious freedom is our
00:52:28.001 --> 00:52:31.171
First freedom.
00:52:31.171 --> 00:52:32.505
The founders put it first in the first amendment for a
00:52:32.505 --> 00:52:34.307
Reason, that they understood that if you lose that freedom,
00:52:34.307 --> 00:52:37.544
You lose all your freedoms.
00:52:37.544 --> 00:52:39.879
And the best reason i can describe why that's true is the
00:52:39.879 --> 00:52:42.949
One thing that a totalitarian regime will never allow are
00:52:42.949 --> 00:52:46.319
Citizens who hold an allegiance to one higher than
00:52:46.319 --> 00:52:48.355
The government.
00:52:48.355 --> 00:52:49.723
So, whenever that type of oppressive government comes in,
00:52:49.723 --> 00:52:52.826
The flashpoint, the first flashpoint, is always
00:52:52.826 --> 00:52:55.195
Religious freedom.
00:52:55.195 --> 00:52:56.596
So, that's the key, right?
00:52:56.596 --> 00:52:58.265
And we just need to remember that and how important that is
00:52:58.265 --> 00:53:01.868
To fight for that.
00:53:01.868 --> 00:53:03.203
And we've just got to keep fighting for it.
00:53:03.203 --> 00:53:05.605
You know, and the good news is our country was built on it.
00:53:05.605 --> 00:53:08.475
As long as you don't hide our history or pretend it's not
00:53:08.475 --> 00:53:11.911
There, we bring it out, it makes it very clear the laws are on
00:53:11.911 --> 00:53:16.049
Our side, but we have to have people that have courage that
00:53:16.049 --> 00:53:19.953
Are willing, the coach kennedys, the marisol castros, the shea
00:53:19.953 --> 00:53:23.490
Encinas, his mom and his dad.
00:53:23.490 --> 00:53:25.692
You know, they've got this whole idea that i'm just gonna sort
00:53:25.692 --> 00:53:29.796
Of hide.
00:53:29.796 --> 00:53:31.331
It's not exactly the jesus way, right?
00:53:31.331 --> 00:53:33.933
We're not looking to cause trouble, but people have to
00:53:33.933 --> 00:53:36.636
Stand when it comes to them.
00:53:36.636 --> 00:53:38.605
And if we do, we can win, we are winning.
00:53:38.605 --> 00:53:42.575
And i would encourage people.
00:53:42.575 --> 00:53:43.910
They might say, "well, what can i do?
00:53:43.910 --> 00:53:45.245
I'm not a--i don't have a case, right?
00:53:45.245 --> 00:53:47.814
Well, i think there's two big things you can do.
00:53:47.814 --> 00:53:50.083
Number one is pray.
00:53:50.083 --> 00:53:52.519
And so, i'd encourage them, we have an email that goes out on
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:55.655
Friday that just takes the four or five biggest happenings of
00:53:55.655 --> 00:53:59.059
The week on religious freedom.
00:53:59.059 --> 00:54:00.694
And so, if coach kennedy is going in court the next day, i
00:54:00.694 --> 00:54:04.531
Would love for people to be praying, right?
00:54:04.531 --> 00:54:07.834
And then number two is if they see that, they can say, "you
00:54:07.834 --> 00:54:11.438
Know what?
00:54:11.438 --> 00:54:13.873
This one of the stories is something i'd like to share with
00:54:13.873 --> 00:54:17.143
My friends.
00:54:17.143 --> 00:54:18.511
Because they can be sort of the paul or paula revere to let
00:54:18.511 --> 00:54:22.849
Other people know.
00:54:22.849 --> 00:54:24.217
Because when people know the freedoms that they have and that
00:54:24.217 --> 00:54:28.321
Our side is winning these cases, they get more emboldened to
00:54:28.321 --> 00:54:33.426
Live out their faith.
00:54:33.426 --> 00:54:35.095
Because the law is on their side.
00:54:35.095 --> 00:54:37.063
So, i would encourage them to do that.
00:54:37.063 --> 00:54:39.466
You know, again, at firstliberty.org we have a deal,
00:54:39.466 --> 00:54:41.368
It's called "the insider" and every friday we send that out
00:54:41.368 --> 00:54:45.305
To, i think we got, 850,000 subscribers, it's free.
00:54:45.305 --> 00:54:48.908
And we want those people to educate others and to pray.
00:54:48.908 --> 00:54:52.145
Because, ultimately, this is all a spiritual battle.
00:54:52.145 --> 00:54:55.048
Matt: all that information is on the screen, and i like this idea
00:54:55.048 --> 00:55:00.387
That as long as you're fighting in the light, you know, you're
00:55:00.387 --> 00:55:05.458
Bringing the truth and you're dragging those lies and
00:55:05.458 --> 00:55:09.429
Deceptions into the light.
00:55:09.429 --> 00:55:11.831
Reminds me of that little fun story of the little kid, you
00:55:11.831 --> 00:55:15.034
Know, out of the mouth of babes, you were mentioning, shea, you
00:55:15.034 --> 00:55:21.508
Know, kind of had a very powerful moment, and this one
00:55:21.508 --> 00:55:28.014
Little kid in sunday school said, "teacher, let's sing the
00:55:28.014 --> 00:55:32.786
Cussing song."
00:55:32.786 --> 00:55:34.421
And he goes, "cussing song?
00:55:34.421 --> 00:55:35.789
What are you talking about?
00:55:35.789 --> 00:55:37.123
We can't sing a cussing song."
00:55:37.123 --> 00:55:38.491
He goes, "yeah, hide it under a bush?
00:55:38.491 --> 00:55:40.226
Hell no, we're gonna let it shine."
00:55:40.226 --> 00:55:45.465
Keep letting it shine, kelly.
00:55:45.465 --> 00:55:46.833
Laurie: kelly, thank you, man.
00:55:46.833 --> 00:55:48.168
Kelly: we're gonna do that.
00:55:48.168 --> 00:55:49.502
Matt: hide it under a bush.
00:55:49.502 --> 00:55:50.870
Laurie: pray for kelly.
00:55:50.870 --> 00:55:52.205
Matt: oh no, you get it.
00:55:52.205 --> 00:55:53.573
We'll see you next time.
00:55:53.573 --> 00:55:54.908
Bye-bye.
00:55:54.908 --> 00:55:56.276
♪♪♪
00:55:56.276 --> 00:55:56.276

Kelly Shackelford: The First Freedom: America’s Fight for Faith | Praise

May 13, 2026 | 56:9

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