Praise

Lisa Harper: A Jesus Shaped Life | Praise

May 22, 2025 | 56:19

Sheila Walsh hosts Lisa Harper to discuss her new book, A Jesus Shaped Life. Together, they explore how embracing the life of Jesus transforms us into the people God created us to be. Lisa shares powerful insights on living a life shaped by love, grace, and the example of Christ.

#Theology #PersonalStory #Trinity #Author #Loneliness #WalkwithGod #LoveofGod #Praise #Bible #Religion #Jesus #Study #WordofGod #TalkShow #LisaHarper #SheilaWalsh #Humor #Savior

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Praise | Lisa Harper: A Jesus Shaped Life | Praise | May 22, 2025

Coming up tonight on praise...
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It always felt like if somebody looks under the hood of my
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Life, they'll find me wanting.
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They'll go, oh, she shouldn't be a bible study teacher.
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There's too many mistakes in her backstory.
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He's not a far away god.
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He's an up close personal savior.
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I pray more of us would jump off high things and trust
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That god will catch us.
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♪♪
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Tonight on praise from dallas, best selling author and bible
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Teacher, lisa harper.
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♪♪
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And now your host, sheila walsh.
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I'm really glad that you tuned in for this program because i
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Think it's gonna be-- you know, every now and again, i get to
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Read so many books, and i love that.
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I mean, i'm just an avid reader.
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But every now and again, a book comes across my desk, and it's
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Like, oh, this really matters.
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So that's why i'm glad you're here.
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So let me ask you a question.
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If somebody said to you, talk to me about theology, what
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Would you say?
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Probably like a lot of people, you would say, there's no way i
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Can because i don't even know what it means, and i'm not
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Smart enough.
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Well, tonight, we have one of the kindest, smartest, but most
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Accessible people that i've ever known.
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We've been friends for way over thirty years.
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Lisa, it's so great to have you on praise.
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I can't believe i'm this close.
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I miss you.
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Because we spend way too much time in different states.
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Yeah. if you're this close to i almost feel like, i'm like,
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I wanna wiggle.
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I feel, like, very, very wiggly with glee just to be this
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Close to you.
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Thank you.
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Well, i have read, i mean, and i
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Have everything you've ever written.
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But when this came across my
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Desk, it looked even looked different.
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Mhmm. i mean, i remember
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Looking at it and thinking, wow.
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This is an important book.
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Why this book at this time?
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You know, even when you said i thought that was a great
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Question to start with.
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What would you say if somebody asked you about theology?
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If we were honest, most of us would be like, wah wah.
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Yeah. you know, it's old men in dusty offices in seminaries, or
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It's somebody who can cross stitch and spell habakkuk.
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And we tend to think of theology as a subject matter,
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As if we're studying god as a proposition instead of a person
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With whom we get to engage.
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But when you even break the word down, theology comes from
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Two greek root words, theos, which refers to god, and logos,
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Which refers to what we're doing right now, conversations.
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So at its core, theology is conversations about god.
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That means everybody is at some level a theologian because even
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People who don't yet have relationship with jesus christ
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Have ideas, have conversations.
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Is there someone bigger than us?
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Is there is jesus an existential construct?
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Even people who don't engage with jesus are having
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Conversations, at least in
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Their mind, about is there a god?
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Could he possibly love me?
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Am i good enough for god?
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And so, of course, there's some really awesome things like
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The trinity and the hypostatic union.
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Those are under that umbrella of--
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That right there, hypostatic union.
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It sounds fancy.
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Doesn't sound fancy.
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And to be real frank, sheila,
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You've known me for a long time.
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You know where all the bodies are buried.
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I first began to study theology because i didn't want everybody
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To know i was a fraud.
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Because i thought i always felt like if somebody looks under
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The hood of my life, they'll find me wanting.
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They'll go, oh, she shouldn't be a bible study teacher.
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There's too many mistakes in her backstory.
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And so i thought, i'll go to seminary, and i'll
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Kinda memorize all the hard words.
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And then, really, it was more of a smokescreen for me.
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And in the kindness of god, the more i dove into this love
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Story we call the bible, the
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More i went, he really is that good.
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He really is.
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He knew loneliness would come with a fall.
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So we can't totally wrap our minds around the trinity, but
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At the kinda just the basic level of trinity is god chose
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To exist in a perfect community unto himself so that we would
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Even have community modeled for us because we'd be so lonely
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For relationships.
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Hypothetic union is my favorite theological concept.
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Can i tell you a story?
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Oh, please, please.
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You know concise is not my gift.
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I'll try to truncate.
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I was at a women's conference a couple of months ago, and i
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Did not wanna be there.
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You know, sometimes you're like, i cannot do perky.
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I do not want to just i just don't wanna do the whole perky
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Christian women's estrogen festival thing.
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And it was right before christmas.
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And so i went because a friend of mine was there and i thought
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This, i'm just gonna have to get it out because i wasn't
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Feeling perky or christmasy.
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I was just kind of hanging onto a knot at the end of my rope.
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Well, at the very end of this event, the woman who was
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Running it said, we're gonna be honest.
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And instead of just saying, we're gonna pray for you,
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We're actually gonna have prayer right here.
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And i know a lot of y'all are in hard places.
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So if you're lonely, would you
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Stand up so we can pray for you?
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And i was like, okay, that's cool.
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Because when you've got a lot of people who look like they
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Have it all together and somebody goes, i ache.
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I just love that kind of authenticity.
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Me too.
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Well, this woman stood up just right down for me, and it's
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Like the dam broke when she stood up.
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She just began to sob.
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And i thought, i'm just gonna go down there and hug her.
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I'm kind of a jack of all trades, master of none.
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The only thing i do really well is i can hug like a boss.
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And i'm old, so i can hug.
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Usually nobody gets offended because it's like being hugged
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By nana.
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And so i thought, i'm gonna
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Race down there and just grab her.
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So she's not standing up alone after she said i'm lonely.
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Yeah. so i go grab her into a hug, and the girl who's
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Praying, her name's christy nockels, amazing.
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Oh, i love her.
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Ain't she lovely?
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But christy, unlike me, is concise.
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So i think it'll be like a real
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Appropriate two, three minute prayer.
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I'm hugging this saint who's sobbing.
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And for whatever reason, christy, it's like she caught
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Up on her reading through the bible in a year in that prayer.
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It's like seventeen minutes.
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I'm hugging this-- seventeen minutes?
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I mean, maybe not, but it was a long prayer.
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And after two minutes at the most, i realized this is
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Getting awkward.
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Cause i'm back against the stage.
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The event is packed out.
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Ms. small rent, there's like five hundred women.
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She can't back up and i can't back up.
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So we are stemmed to stern.
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We're in christmas sweaters.
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We can feel each other sweat.
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So i'm like, this started out sweet.
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It's moving toward trauma at this point.
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So i thought i kind of
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Need to back up and tell her,
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I'm sorry, or inject a little levity.
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And so i kind of pull my head back and then it gets even
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Funnier because we can't separate from each other.
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And she said, i'm sorry.
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And i said, oh, no, no, no, no.
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This is what the body of christ is supposed to be.
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No, we get to be there for each other.
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We're supposed to mourn with us this morning.
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She goes, no, i'm really sorry.
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And i said, no, i promise this is my favorite thing.
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And she goes, no, i'm really sorry.
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I just got a big glob of snot in your hair.
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Sorry for the listeners who were like, this is gonna be
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Really deep, because it's about theology.
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And i was like, oh, like, what do you say?
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And i was like,
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Yay. what do you say?
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So later on that night, it got funnier.
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But to truncate the story, i went home and took a shower,
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Of course, to wash my hair.
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And i stepped out of the shower and i looked in the mirror
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And i had this a-ha moment.
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I thought, oh my goodness gracious.
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I was on the road, i don't know, 130 days
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This was last year.
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I've been to 52 conferences.
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And the holiest thing that i had the privilege of being near
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Was to be close enough to another image bearer that she
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Got the residue of her heartache and my hair.
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And i thought, oh my goodness, that's the hyperstatic union.
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Wow. jesus is perfectly god, transcendent, holy.
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And he condescended to be accessible to us.
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So fancy word, but it means that he's most authoritative
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And accessible.
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And i thought the king of all kings condescended to get the
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Residue of my heartache on his hands and on his feet.
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He's not a faraway god.
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He's an up close personal savior.
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At the end of the day, theology is about leaning more fully
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Into jesus than loving each other better.
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Yeah.
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It's not big words about god.
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It grieves me when people think that's what theology is.
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Yes. you bring your mind to the table, but it's so much more
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About living than it is about learning.
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Why do you think that so many of us are afraid to be honest
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Like that woman?
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Yeah. you know, to simply say, i'm hurting.
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I mean, i'm thinking about our viewers at home right now who
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Might be lonely or-- yes.
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Grieving or disillusioned or disappointed with god.
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Why do you think that we find it hard to be honest?
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I think there's a couple of reasons.
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So i'll draw first from all my counseling,
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Because my you know, where i really met god in an intimate
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Way, i've been walking with
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Jesus like you since i was a kid,
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But it wasn't until i was in my, early forties and i just
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Had i just i just felt like i lost everything.
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I lost two primary relationships in my life and i
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Was diagnosed with brain cancer, ended up not being a
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Big deal, but all that happened in a couple of weeks.
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And i've always been a pull myself up by the bootstraps
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Kinda girl.
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And when i lost kind of every major leg to my stool, i
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Couldn't, i just couldn't keep going.
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And i thought, i don't know if i can carry the weight of my
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Own life anymore.
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Wow. and sheila, god spoke we've talked about this before.
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He spoke so clearly to me.
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I've never heard an audible voice.
00:09:57.953 --> 00:09:59.789
But he basically said, lisa, you've been running scared
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Your whole life.
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You know you know the verses.
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You filled in your bible study blanks.
00:10:04.894 --> 00:10:06.762
I'd already gone to seminary the first time around and knew
00:10:06.762 --> 00:10:09.165
Just enough greek and hebrew to be dangerous.
00:10:09.165 --> 00:10:11.434
But he said, you've been running scared, and so i'm
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Gonna take you to the dark, and i'm gonna sit with you in the
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Basement until fear doesn't own you anymore.
00:10:16.138 --> 00:10:18.974
But i was afraid of a couple of things.
00:10:19.075 --> 00:10:20.910
One, i was afraid that people would think i had hurt god's
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Reputation because surely if you know jesus, every day
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Should be great.
00:10:27.550 --> 00:10:28.384
Right? yeah.
00:10:28.384 --> 00:10:29.418
You know, we totally misapply that promise.
00:10:29.418 --> 00:10:32.154
We go from victory to victory.
00:10:32.154 --> 00:10:33.556
Glory. that's talking about old covenant, new covenant.
00:10:33.556 --> 00:10:35.558
It's talking about god being sovereign.
00:10:35.558 --> 00:10:37.393
It's not saying life won't be hard.
00:10:37.393 --> 00:10:39.028
Yeah. jesus didn't punk us.
00:10:39.028 --> 00:10:40.396
He said, in this world, you will have trouble.
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But i thought i'll disappoint people.
00:10:42.832 --> 00:10:45.334
Worse still, what if i disappoint god?
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What if he says, i have showered you with mercy and
00:10:48.437 --> 00:10:51.774
Grace, and you're still being a whiny baby?
00:10:51.774 --> 00:10:54.810
And i don't think our biblical theology is very sound.
00:10:54.910 --> 00:10:58.981
We cut and paste all the happy clappy passages.
00:10:59.081 --> 00:11:02.551
Mhmm.
00:11:02.551 --> 00:11:03.753
But we don't talk about the fact that the psalms, the
00:11:03.753 --> 00:11:06.288
Majority of the psalms are about this is hard.
00:11:06.288 --> 00:11:09.525
Yeah. the most often asked
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Question in the is how much longer, lord?
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And we live in a broken world.
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I think the fact that we aren't honest about i'm lonely.
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I'm saying god is sovereign and he's good, but my life is
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Anything but right now, i think the fact that we don't go there
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Is one of the reasons people think christianity is just a
00:11:29.011 --> 00:11:33.682
Bunch of hyperbole.
00:11:33.682 --> 00:11:34.950
You know, it's so funny.
00:11:34.950 --> 00:11:35.885
You and i
00:11:35.885 --> 00:11:37.086
Have talked about this before, but i discovered in my
00:11:37.086 --> 00:11:38.788
Own life i mean, for so many years, i thought i had to be
00:11:38.788 --> 00:11:41.390
Like god's pr agent.
00:11:41.390 --> 00:11:42.691
Yes. you know, like, look like i had it all together.
00:11:42.691 --> 00:11:44.894
Right. and it was only when my life really crashed that i
00:11:44.894 --> 00:11:48.330
Discovered that brokenness is a far greater bridge to other
00:11:48.330 --> 00:11:51.801
People than pretend wholeness--
00:11:51.801 --> 00:11:54.069
That's right. -- ever is.
00:11:54.069 --> 00:11:55.371
But i want you have this quote at the beginning of chapter
00:11:55.371 --> 00:11:57.840
One, which really intrigued me, and it's from tozer, one of
00:11:57.940 --> 00:12:02.511
Our favorite writers.
00:12:02.511 --> 00:12:03.846
For millions of christians,
00:12:03.946 --> 00:12:06.182
God is no more real than he is to non christians.
00:12:06.282 --> 00:12:09.785
They go through life trying to love an ideal right.
00:12:09.885 --> 00:12:12.788
And be loyal to a mere principle.
00:12:12.788 --> 00:12:15.157
That's weighty. yes.
00:12:15.758 --> 00:12:17.159
For millions of christians, god is no more real
00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:19.762
Than he is to non
00:12:19.762 --> 00:12:20.663
That's right.
00:12:20.763 --> 00:12:21.630
What do you think he means by that?
00:12:21.630 --> 00:12:23.933
My second doctoral class at denver seminary, i was the
00:12:24.033 --> 00:12:28.437
Dumbest person my doctoral candidacy.
00:12:28.437 --> 00:12:30.272
So most of the time, was just like, please help me not, you
00:12:30.272 --> 00:12:33.075
Know, mispronounce something.
00:12:33.075 --> 00:12:34.009
Please let me get it right.
00:12:34.009 --> 00:12:36.078
And one of my professors taught, he was
00:12:36.178 --> 00:12:38.948
Teaching through the daughters of zilophahad, which i'd never
00:12:38.948 --> 00:12:41.550
Studied that passage in numbers.
00:12:41.550 --> 00:12:43.018
Who does their devotions in numbers?
00:12:43.018 --> 00:12:46.355
But he threw the story in this love story, talked about
00:12:46.455 --> 00:12:51.260
How god sees us and how theology is really about god
00:12:51.260 --> 00:12:57.032
Always redeeming our inherent value as his image bearers,
00:12:57.032 --> 00:13:01.036
As imago dei.
00:13:01.036 --> 00:13:02.271
That the beginning of our bibles is about him resetting
00:13:02.271 --> 00:13:04.273
Their identity.
00:13:04.273 --> 00:13:05.474
Sabbath wasn't about wearing pantyhose and not yelling
00:13:05.474 --> 00:13:09.311
Or running on sundays.
00:13:09.311 --> 00:13:10.679
It was about god saying, you think as slaves, your children.
00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:14.350
So i'm gonna give you a day where you don't have to work or
00:13:14.450 --> 00:13:16.518
Be productive.
00:13:16.518 --> 00:13:17.286
I want you to eat great food.
00:13:17.286 --> 00:13:18.687
You don't have to do keto.
00:13:18.787 --> 00:13:20.155
Jesus is the bread of life.
00:13:20.155 --> 00:13:21.390
I want you to be with people who love you.
00:13:21.390 --> 00:13:23.025
It's really about he loved them, and he was teaching them
00:13:23.025 --> 00:13:26.528
What it was to be valued and be children.
00:13:26.528 --> 00:13:28.397
Anyway, he was teaching about daughters of zilophad and how
00:13:28.397 --> 00:13:30.799
Thirty five hundred years before women had the right to
00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.068
Vote, god changed inheritance laws because he loves his
00:13:33.068 --> 00:13:37.139
Daughters as much as he loves his sons.
00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:38.574
And i'm sitting in this class, you know, i was i'm sixty one,
00:13:38.574 --> 00:13:41.677
So i was probably fifty five, fifty six.
00:13:41.677 --> 00:13:44.146
Been in vocational ministry,
00:13:44.146 --> 00:13:45.514
You know, most of my adult life.
00:13:45.514 --> 00:13:47.082
And sheila, i sat there and i just began to weep.
00:13:47.182 --> 00:13:50.519
And when all the other students got up and they left, the
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.023
Professor left, it was the end of the day.
00:13:54.023 --> 00:13:55.925
He had forgotten something to the class and he came
00:13:56.025 --> 00:13:58.160
Walking back in.
00:13:58.160 --> 00:13:59.428
And i'm sitting in this chair crying, this older student
00:13:59.428 --> 00:14:03.032
In his class.
00:14:03.032 --> 00:14:03.933
And i could see his face.
00:14:03.933 --> 00:14:05.267
I think he was thinking, uh-oh, she might ought to be in the
00:14:05.267 --> 00:14:07.403
Counseling program instead of the theology program.
00:14:07.403 --> 00:14:09.939
But he said, are you okay?
00:14:09.939 --> 00:14:11.607
And i said, yes, sir.
00:14:12.174 --> 00:14:14.076
Yes, sir.
00:14:14.410 --> 00:14:15.678
I just am really overwhelmed with the kindness of god.
00:14:15.778 --> 00:14:19.481
I said, wanted to believe he was that kind.
00:14:19.581 --> 00:14:23.686
And i've memorized the passages and i've gone to school.
00:14:23.786 --> 00:14:27.222
But there was a corner of my heart that always felt like a
00:14:27.323 --> 00:14:30.025
Failure and a fraud.
00:14:30.025 --> 00:14:31.927
And like god had lowered the bar to let me into his kingdom.
00:14:31.927 --> 00:14:35.264
And so i was just always trying to do better and be better.
00:14:35.264 --> 00:14:37.900
And even theology for me was about, let me get it right.
00:14:37.900 --> 00:14:40.135
Let me get it right.
00:14:40.135 --> 00:14:41.270
And to go, he just loves me become because i'm his.
00:14:41.270 --> 00:14:47.276
He's not an ideal.
00:14:47.276 --> 00:14:49.311
He is not a proposition to study or a principle to try
00:14:49.411 --> 00:14:55.150
To memorize facets about.
00:14:55.150 --> 00:14:57.052
He is a perfect triune creator redeemer we get to lean into.
00:14:57.052 --> 00:15:02.591
I get to come to him on my lonely days and say, will
00:15:02.691 --> 00:15:06.395
You carry me, dad?
00:15:06.395 --> 00:15:07.363
I can't carry the weight of my own life.
00:15:07.363 --> 00:15:08.697
What a good god.
00:15:08.697 --> 00:15:11.033
And so i love that brainiacs like tozer and packer and
00:15:11.133 --> 00:15:14.937
Augustine, they didn't just give us principles.
00:15:14.937 --> 00:15:18.040
They said, the most important point is that you know him and
00:15:18.040 --> 00:15:21.944
That you know that he loves you.
00:15:21.944 --> 00:15:23.679
So, if theology doesn't lean to lead to us leaning more fully
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:27.049
Into jesus and loving each other better,
00:15:27.049 --> 00:15:29.852
It's just noise.
00:15:29.952 --> 00:15:31.053
If you're just joining us,
00:15:31.153 --> 00:15:33.722
Guest tonight is lisa harper, and her new book is called
00:15:33.822 --> 00:15:36.892
A jesus shaped life.
00:15:36.892 --> 00:15:39.695
What does a jesus shaped life look like?
00:15:40.662 --> 00:15:43.432
You know, he we tend to think of jesus as
00:15:43.532 --> 00:15:47.669
Well, we tend to have a real binary view of god.
00:15:48.771 --> 00:15:51.273
So we think of the old testament god as, you know,
00:15:51.273 --> 00:15:53.409
He's got white hair and a bible, and he's gonna smack us
00:15:53.409 --> 00:15:56.078
Over the head if we step out of the line.
00:15:56.078 --> 00:15:58.147
And then jesus appears in the new testament and he's got hair
00:15:58.147 --> 00:16:00.783
Extensions and is dancing around the shore of galilee
00:16:00.783 --> 00:16:03.452
In a white robe.
00:16:03.452 --> 00:16:04.586
And if that was true, then god would be bipolar.
00:16:04.586 --> 00:16:06.789
That's not who our god is.
00:16:06.789 --> 00:16:07.890
He's always existed in perfect community.
00:16:07.890 --> 00:16:10.726
And you can't wrap your mind around that.
00:16:10.826 --> 00:16:13.262
Anybody who tells me they understand the trinity, i'm
00:16:13.262 --> 00:16:15.064
Like a liar, liar pants on fire.
00:16:15.064 --> 00:16:16.698
It's too big for our human minds.
00:16:16.698 --> 00:16:19.201
But god the father, god the son, god the holy spirit been
00:16:19.301 --> 00:16:21.937
There since the very beginning.
00:16:21.937 --> 00:16:23.672
And a jesus-shaped life is to look at who our creator
00:16:23.772 --> 00:16:26.909
Redeemer is.
00:16:26.909 --> 00:16:28.143
And he did not do what they would thought he would do.
00:16:28.143 --> 00:16:30.079
You know, even his disciples.
00:16:30.079 --> 00:16:31.513
Remember the last supper?
00:16:31.513 --> 00:16:34.349
And we think of the painting, didn't look like the painting.
00:16:34.450 --> 00:16:37.786
It looked like a food fight at olive garden.
00:16:37.786 --> 00:16:39.455
You're there hurling breadsticks at each other,
00:16:39.455 --> 00:16:41.690
Going, who gets to sit at your right and your left?
00:16:41.690 --> 00:16:43.926
They had been with jesus for three years, the disciples, and
00:16:43.926 --> 00:16:48.263
They still didn't get it.
00:16:48.263 --> 00:16:49.631
They're still jockeying for who gets you know, more privilege
00:16:49.631 --> 00:16:54.303
Because they still thought he's gonna be a human king.
00:16:54.403 --> 00:16:57.673
He's gonna make our lives better.
00:16:57.773 --> 00:17:00.008
He's gonna redeem us out from under the, you know,
00:17:00.008 --> 00:17:03.011
The oppression of greco-roman culture.
00:17:03.011 --> 00:17:06.415
And instead of castigating them,
00:17:06.515 --> 00:17:09.218
I love, i love the shape of jesus,
00:17:10.052 --> 00:17:14.556
He takes off his robe and he gets down on his knees and he
00:17:14.656 --> 00:17:17.759
Washes their nasty feet.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.928
You know, they didn't get pedicures back then, they
00:17:20.028 --> 00:17:22.397
Walked everywhere they went.
00:17:22.397 --> 00:17:23.532
So not like our feet on a bad day.
00:17:23.532 --> 00:17:26.135
They were nasty, callous, disgusting feet.
00:17:26.135 --> 00:17:29.071
Only the slaves washed feet in first century semitic culture.
00:17:29.071 --> 00:17:32.808
And the king of all kings gets
00:17:32.908 --> 00:17:34.409
Down on his knees, washes their feet.
00:17:34.409 --> 00:17:36.645
And then the last thing he gives judas before he goes to
00:17:36.645 --> 00:17:38.914
Betray him is communion. mhmm.
00:17:38.914 --> 00:17:40.916
So he's the king of all kings, and yet his life is
00:17:40.916 --> 00:17:44.186
Shaped by compassion.
00:17:44.186 --> 00:17:45.988
I think our lives tend to be
00:17:46.655 --> 00:17:48.524
Shaped like, i've gotta be right. yeah.
00:17:48.524 --> 00:17:50.893
Even christians, i mean, all you gotta do is scroll
00:17:50.893 --> 00:17:54.429
For thirty seconds.
00:17:54.429 --> 00:17:55.664
Yeah. and you're gonna see people using christianity to
00:17:55.664 --> 00:17:59.034
Oppress and belittle other image bearers.
00:17:59.034 --> 00:18:02.204
So i think first and foremost to be shaped like jesus is to
00:18:02.304 --> 00:18:07.676
Exude empathy and compassion.
00:18:07.776 --> 00:18:10.846
How many times in the gospels did he say, oh, i want to.
00:18:10.946 --> 00:18:15.284
When people said, can you heal me?
00:18:15.284 --> 00:18:17.386
He didn't just say, shazam.
00:18:17.386 --> 00:18:19.555
He said, oh, i want to.
00:18:19.655 --> 00:18:21.957
And he held him.
00:18:22.057 --> 00:18:23.158
He's such, he's perfectly holy and perfectly kind.
00:18:23.158 --> 00:18:27.062
Mhmm. and i feel like i'm still learning that.
00:18:27.062 --> 00:18:28.830
You know, i feel like i'm still
00:18:28.830 --> 00:18:29.765
In kindergarten learning his kindness.
00:18:29.765 --> 00:18:32.668
One of the things that
00:18:32.768 --> 00:18:34.036
I've just been reading through the gospels again and just for
00:18:34.136 --> 00:18:37.606
For praying for fresh eyes to see what i would miss and fresh
00:18:37.706 --> 00:18:41.276
Ears to hear what you know,
00:18:41.276 --> 00:18:42.911
Beyond my own preconceived ideas.
00:18:42.911 --> 00:18:44.913
Right. and the thing that i kept noticing was the one mhmm.
00:18:44.913 --> 00:18:48.383
The way that jesus was with the
00:18:48.383 --> 00:18:49.885
One, that he actually saw people.
00:18:49.885 --> 00:18:52.087
And it brought this strange kind of picture back to me when
00:18:52.187 --> 00:18:56.658
I used to work at the seven hundred club in virginia.
00:18:56.658 --> 00:18:59.061
And i remember one morning, i'm in my car, and i'm heading to
00:18:59.161 --> 00:19:02.397
The studio because, you know, the show was live then.
00:19:02.397 --> 00:19:04.433
Right. and i'm stopped at a traffic light, and there's
00:19:04.433 --> 00:19:08.036
Somebody standing there with a little sign, you know, somebody
00:19:08.036 --> 00:19:11.039
Who's hope homeless, and they're looking for some cash
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.508
To make it through the day.
00:19:13.508 --> 00:19:14.776
Sure. and i'm looking at my clock, and i and my watch, and
00:19:14.776 --> 00:19:17.779
I'm thinking i've got it.
00:19:17.779 --> 00:19:18.914
And i go, and i leave that person alone because i'm
00:19:18.914 --> 00:19:23.151
Running to the studio to talk about jesus.
00:19:23.151 --> 00:19:25.020
And i cannot tell you what that did to me that day.
00:19:25.020 --> 00:19:28.056
I mean, i found myself thinking, what a
00:19:28.056 --> 00:19:29.691
Hypocrite that that if that was jesus in the car, he would have
00:19:29.691 --> 00:19:34.529
Stopped for that
00:19:34.529 --> 00:19:34.997
One person.
00:19:34.997 --> 00:19:35.764
He would seen that
00:19:35.764 --> 00:19:36.665
One person.
00:19:36.665 --> 00:19:37.666
The show wouldn't have gone on.
00:19:37.766 --> 00:19:38.700
No. which would have been just fine.
00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:40.302
The world would have survived without one more show.
00:19:40.302 --> 00:19:42.704
--fine. i know.
00:19:42.804 --> 00:19:43.772
I was late for a flight last weekend,
00:19:43.772 --> 00:19:46.775
And i was hustling through the airport.
00:19:47.676 --> 00:19:49.544
And this woman stopped.
00:19:49.645 --> 00:19:50.912
We've been in a conference together.
00:19:50.912 --> 00:19:52.814
And she saw me, and she started to cry.
00:19:52.814 --> 00:19:55.150
And i was like, it's my perfume.
00:19:55.150 --> 00:19:56.652
And i could tell whatever was going on, she was
00:19:56.652 --> 00:20:01.156
She was in a real tender place.
00:20:01.890 --> 00:20:03.925
And so i stopped, you're thinking, wanna make that
00:20:04.026 --> 00:20:06.662
Flight because it's the last flight that will get me, where
00:20:06.662 --> 00:20:09.898
I need to go.
00:20:09.898 --> 00:20:11.099
But i stopped, and she couldn't even speak at first.
00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:13.435
And then she showed me a tattoo on her wrist.
00:20:13.435 --> 00:20:16.772
And it was that promise in isaiah when god says, when you
00:20:16.772 --> 00:20:20.008
Walk through the fire, you won't be burned.
00:20:20.008 --> 00:20:21.910
When you walk through the floods, you won't drown.
00:20:21.910 --> 00:20:25.814
And she showed me that promise, and there was this huge scar
00:20:25.914 --> 00:20:29.718
Through the promise.
00:20:29.818 --> 00:20:31.687
And we had just been in an event together where i had the
00:20:31.787 --> 00:20:34.690
Undeserved privilege of talking about jesus.
00:20:34.690 --> 00:20:37.459
And i talked about how sometimes we're hesitant to
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.028
Lean into the arms of god because arms that should have
00:20:40.028 --> 00:20:44.166
Been safe for us have been abusive.
00:20:44.166 --> 00:20:46.802
And especially for women who've been abused by men,
00:20:46.902 --> 00:20:51.540
Daddies or-- mhmm.
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:53.275
Ex husbands or current husbands.
00:20:53.275 --> 00:20:55.444
Sometimes those women hear
00:20:55.444 --> 00:20:57.012
About god in a in a masculine sense.
00:20:57.012 --> 00:20:59.648
He's our father.
00:20:59.648 --> 00:21:01.049
He's the husband of the husbandless.
00:21:01.149 --> 00:21:02.651
He's our bridegroom.
00:21:02.651 --> 00:21:03.885
And they're like, oh, i don't know.
00:21:03.885 --> 00:21:05.787
I'm okay with worship, but i'm not so sure i wanna be held.
00:21:05.787 --> 00:21:08.824
And i taught about that.
00:21:08.924 --> 00:21:10.592
And she said, this scar is the last time my ex husband
00:21:10.692 --> 00:21:15.764
Broke my arm.
00:21:15.764 --> 00:21:17.099
And he broke it so badly, they had to put a plate in my arm.
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:22.204
And she said it grieved me that they cut through that tattoo
00:21:22.304 --> 00:21:25.207
That promised that god would take care of me.
00:21:25.207 --> 00:21:27.909
But she said, it was that scar that gave me the grace because
00:21:27.909 --> 00:21:32.280
He was starting to abuse my son to finally leave.
00:21:32.280 --> 00:21:35.417
But she said, i felt so much shame.
00:21:35.517 --> 00:21:38.954
And today, for the first time
00:21:39.054 --> 00:21:40.389
When you said his arms are safe,
00:21:40.389 --> 00:21:43.792
She said, it's the first time i thought god wasn't
00:21:44.826 --> 00:21:48.263
Disappointed in me.
00:21:48.263 --> 00:21:49.398
Mhmm. and god wanted me to lean into his embrace.
00:21:49.398 --> 00:21:52.033
And i thought, okay.
00:21:52.033 --> 00:21:53.435
Goodness gracious.
00:21:53.435 --> 00:21:54.302
I'll walk to the next place.
00:21:54.302 --> 00:21:55.771
I don't need to make the plane to get to have that kind of--
00:21:55.771 --> 00:21:59.541
And, you know, i think too, we think of the body of christ as
00:21:59.641 --> 00:22:03.779
A metaphor instead of we
00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:06.181
Actually get to embody theology.
00:22:06.181 --> 00:22:09.751
It's not a subject matter.
00:22:10.385 --> 00:22:12.788
It's life.
00:22:12.788 --> 00:22:14.523
One of the things you talk about in the book, which really
00:22:14.523 --> 00:22:17.259
Hit me at the moment because i'm in a place where i'm
00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:20.429
Feeling like i long for deeper community-- yeah.
00:22:20.529 --> 00:22:23.832
Was you talked about our faith being more of a we thing--
00:22:23.832 --> 00:22:27.269
Yeah. than a me thing.
00:22:27.269 --> 00:22:28.170
Yeah. what did you mean by that?
00:22:28.270 --> 00:22:30.972
Thank you for your honesty.
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.275
You always help me.
00:22:33.275 --> 00:22:35.310
I can't imagine how sometimes
00:22:35.310 --> 00:22:36.912
It's hard to be on a television show
00:22:36.912 --> 00:22:39.314
And want real relationships with people who want you to
00:22:40.515 --> 00:22:43.318
Sign something.
00:22:43.318 --> 00:22:44.619
It's weird, isn't it?
00:22:45.187 --> 00:22:46.388
The way our culture makes i know.
00:22:46.388 --> 00:22:48.156
It hierarchical and transactional.
00:22:48.156 --> 00:22:49.891
I'm like, that's not christianity.
00:22:49.891 --> 00:22:51.159
It's relational.
00:22:51.159 --> 00:22:51.960
Plus, we're all gonna be in the
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:53.428
Same apartment complex in glory.
00:22:53.428 --> 00:22:54.896
We should get to know each other here.
00:22:54.896 --> 00:22:58.033
There's this thing in the new testament called
00:22:59.034 --> 00:23:01.803
The-- you know this.
00:23:01.803 --> 00:23:03.205
You've been to more school than i have or at least every bit as
00:23:03.205 --> 00:23:04.906
Much, you probably remember it all.
00:23:04.906 --> 00:23:06.508
My mind has become a colander.
00:23:06.508 --> 00:23:08.276
I hit sixty, and i get discounts at fast food
00:23:08.276 --> 00:23:10.679
Restaurants, but my mind is going south fast.
00:23:10.679 --> 00:23:14.049
But it's called the imperatives in the new testament.
00:23:14.049 --> 00:23:16.818
Fancy word that just means when god tells us to do something.
00:23:16.818 --> 00:23:19.654
And all of his when he tells us
00:23:19.654 --> 00:23:22.657
To do something, it's always promissory.
00:23:22.657 --> 00:23:24.459
And he's not of this god.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.261
He's a i want you to have a life of certainly holiness,
00:23:26.261 --> 00:23:30.031
But holiness is getting closer to jesus.
00:23:30.031 --> 00:23:31.700
It's not primarily about ethics.
00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:33.802
Anyway, all of the imperatives of the new testament, ninety
00:23:33.902 --> 00:23:36.538
Eight percent of them, ninety eight percent are set in the
00:23:36.538 --> 00:23:40.008
Context of community.
00:23:40.008 --> 00:23:41.510
Wow. love one another, carry one another's burdens.
00:23:41.510 --> 00:23:45.013
Mean, over and over and over and over again, it's called the
00:23:45.013 --> 00:23:47.415
Fifty nine one anothers.
00:23:47.415 --> 00:23:49.317
So you got fifty nine throughout the new testament.
00:23:49.317 --> 00:23:51.953
These things where god says,
00:23:52.053 --> 00:23:53.889
I want you to love one another well.
00:23:53.889 --> 00:23:54.956
I want you to forgive one another.
00:23:54.956 --> 00:23:56.291
It's always in community.
00:23:56.291 --> 00:23:58.560
And so if you study what god is telling us in this love story
00:23:58.660 --> 00:24:03.698
We call the bible that's redemptive, it's always,
00:24:03.698 --> 00:24:07.636
Always, always about relationship.
00:24:07.636 --> 00:24:10.305
First with him, then with each other.
00:24:10.305 --> 00:24:12.908
And i'm at the point in life where i and some i'm probably
00:24:12.908 --> 00:24:16.311
Gonna cause somebody to drop their coffee or get mad
00:24:16.311 --> 00:24:19.381
Or throw something at their television.
00:24:20.282 --> 00:24:22.684
I don't think you can be a christian by yourself.
00:24:22.784 --> 00:24:25.420
I think in first world country, we privatize christian your
00:24:25.520 --> 00:24:29.024
Salvation is, god, i'm a sinner.
00:24:29.024 --> 00:24:32.227
Jesus, i need you to forgive me and i put my hope in you.
00:24:32.327 --> 00:24:35.030
So that is personal.
00:24:35.030 --> 00:24:36.898
There are no spiritual grandchildren.
00:24:36.898 --> 00:24:39.034
You have to have a personal salvation experience.
00:24:39.034 --> 00:24:43.338
But then after that, he's like,
00:24:43.438 --> 00:24:45.206
I want y'all to move toward me together.
00:24:45.206 --> 00:24:47.542
And the way other people are gonna be able to tell you love
00:24:47.642 --> 00:24:50.178
Me, it's about how you love each other.
00:24:50.178 --> 00:24:52.047
So i think if you see somebody who has no relationship and is
00:24:52.147 --> 00:24:57.018
Kind of isolated, i'm like, oh, you actually aren't in a good
00:24:57.018 --> 00:24:59.888
Spiritual place.
00:24:59.888 --> 00:25:01.222
Because he's called us to do life together.
00:25:01.323 --> 00:25:04.326
Jesus did life
00:25:04.326 --> 00:25:07.095
Relationally. the king of all kings chose to live in
00:25:08.196 --> 00:25:13.702
Relationship, and he said, now y'all go and do likewise.
00:25:13.702 --> 00:25:16.671
And so i don't think, i really am not sure in my own personal
00:25:16.771 --> 00:25:21.810
Tiny i don't think you can have a vibrant-- yeah.
00:25:21.810 --> 00:25:26.281
Intimate relationship with jesus if you don't have
00:25:26.281 --> 00:25:28.883
Relationships with other image bearers.
00:25:28.883 --> 00:25:30.685
You know, it's so interesting.
00:25:30.785 --> 00:25:32.053
Yesterday, i was flying back from something in chicago, and
00:25:32.053 --> 00:25:35.190
I ended up having a conversation with a woman.
00:25:35.190 --> 00:25:37.659
We were just both in line waiting for coffee.
00:25:37.659 --> 00:25:40.295
And somehow we connected, and she worked out that, you know,
00:25:40.395 --> 00:25:43.164
I did.
00:25:43.164 --> 00:25:44.532
And so we were talking about some things, and she said,
00:25:44.532 --> 00:25:47.769
Here's what's hard for me.
00:25:47.769 --> 00:25:49.037
She said, go to church every sunday.
00:25:49.037 --> 00:25:50.939
Yeah. and i sit there in this big building,
00:25:50.939 --> 00:25:53.775
And, you know, we worship and i listen.
00:25:54.676 --> 00:25:57.412
Right. and then i go back home, and then it's just
00:25:57.412 --> 00:26:02.183
I go to work.
00:26:02.183 --> 00:26:03.485
There seems to be no connection to me between everything i
00:26:03.485 --> 00:26:06.821
Hear on a sunday morning
00:26:06.821 --> 00:26:07.922
Right.
00:26:08.023 --> 00:26:08.990
And what happens on a tuesday evening.
00:26:08.990 --> 00:26:10.325
That's right.
00:26:10.325 --> 00:26:11.626
And i think i wonder if that's one of the greatest things that
00:26:11.726 --> 00:26:13.762
We're facing as a nation.
00:26:13.762 --> 00:26:15.330
And i think covid made it worse in some ways because i think
00:26:15.330 --> 00:26:18.400
That suddenly it was like, oh, we don't actually have to go
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:20.902
Into a place to be with one another.
00:26:20.902 --> 00:26:23.071
We just can sit at home with a cup of coffee and watch
00:26:23.071 --> 00:26:25.707
And zoom, our favorites.
00:26:25.707 --> 00:26:27.075
Yeah. i know.
00:26:27.075 --> 00:26:28.510
Right. what would you say to somebody who's watching home at
00:26:28.510 --> 00:26:30.779
Home right now and who thinks
00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:32.914
It's like warning bells when you're talking?
00:26:33.915 --> 00:26:35.884
It's like, recognize the truth of that.
00:26:35.884 --> 00:26:38.453
Yeah. but they don't know where to
00:26:38.453 --> 00:26:40.789
Go from.
00:26:40.789 --> 00:26:41.990
I'd say we have, in my opinion, we have a very, very
00:26:41.990 --> 00:26:46.661
Anemic view of what god calls church yeah.
00:26:46.661 --> 00:26:49.831
In this love story because he never ever in scripture
00:26:49.831 --> 00:26:54.402
Will you find the word ecclesia in the greek, church referring
00:26:54.402 --> 00:26:59.207
To a building ever.
00:26:59.207 --> 00:27:01.076
It's always a gathering.
00:27:01.176 --> 00:27:02.277
Mhmm. it's always people.
00:27:02.277 --> 00:27:04.045
And more often than not, with the way god called the word
00:27:04.145 --> 00:27:08.183
We would interpret church or gatherings, more often than
00:27:08.183 --> 00:27:11.786
Not, it was around the table.
00:27:11.786 --> 00:27:13.521
Mhmm. and it was sharing what they had.
00:27:13.521 --> 00:27:15.557
It was very, very communal.
00:27:15.557 --> 00:27:17.792
So i think if your church experience is primary
00:27:17.892 --> 00:27:21.196
Transactional and it's limited to ninety minutes on a sunday,
00:27:21.196 --> 00:27:26.034
That that's actually not the way god defines church.
00:27:26.134 --> 00:27:28.937
That's corporate worship, which we need and he calls us to.
00:27:28.937 --> 00:27:33.174
Yeah.
00:27:33.174 --> 00:27:34.542
But if that's all you're doing, that's like eating a cheeto on
00:27:34.542 --> 00:27:36.778
Monday and thinking it will last you until thursday.
00:27:36.778 --> 00:27:39.414
Mhmm. i need more food.
00:27:39.414 --> 00:27:40.949
I need more sustenance.
00:27:40.949 --> 00:27:42.584
We've made
00:27:42.684 --> 00:27:44.285
Worship so transactional instead of relational.
00:27:44.385 --> 00:27:48.456
And it's like, no, everything we do, even the spiritual
00:27:48.456 --> 00:27:51.159
Disciplines, i was reading something on the spiritual
00:27:51.159 --> 00:27:53.261
Disciplines flying to being with you.
00:27:53.261 --> 00:27:54.929
And i thought, why did they take the fun out of the
00:27:54.929 --> 00:27:57.665
Spiritual disciplines?
00:27:57.665 --> 00:27:58.900
Like, this has become so elitist.
00:27:58.900 --> 00:28:00.535
It's like, have to have two
00:28:00.535 --> 00:28:01.536
Hours to be quiet and be contemplative.
00:28:01.536 --> 00:28:04.706
I'm like, well, yeah, that's part of it.
00:28:04.706 --> 00:28:06.674
But if you look at what jesus frames spiritual disciplines,
00:28:06.775 --> 00:28:10.445
He's like, it's the overflow of your relationship with me.
00:28:10.445 --> 00:28:13.314
So sometimes belly laughing is
00:28:13.414 --> 00:28:15.150
Actually a spiritual discipline.
00:28:15.150 --> 00:28:16.651
Yes, silence is.
00:28:16.651 --> 00:28:17.819
Yes, prayer is.
00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:19.120
But i'm also supposed to pray with you, not just write you
00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:22.524
In my book at nine o'clock on a wednesday.
00:28:22.524 --> 00:28:24.559
And i'm supposed to go, sheila,
00:28:24.659 --> 00:28:26.694
And i've done this many times,
00:28:27.428 --> 00:28:29.430
I need you because i'm dying today.
00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:32.834
And i know he's a good god,
00:28:32.934 --> 00:28:34.402
But my life is stinking hard right now.
00:28:34.402 --> 00:28:36.304
Can you help me?
00:28:36.304 --> 00:28:37.639
I need you to carry my burden because it's too heavy for me.
00:28:37.639 --> 00:28:39.874
That's church.
00:28:40.308 --> 00:28:41.543
Yeah. and so don't let church just be a building, and
00:28:41.543 --> 00:28:44.813
Definitely get into a smaller bite-sized piece.
00:28:44.913 --> 00:28:48.183
I'm learning small group.
00:28:48.183 --> 00:28:49.951
I'm learning so much at the moment.
00:28:49.951 --> 00:28:51.519
In fact, mary and i both are from our son, because
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:53.955
Christian's twenty eight now.
00:28:53.955 --> 00:28:55.190
He's amazing.
00:28:55.290 --> 00:28:56.391
No. he's darling.
00:28:56.391 --> 00:28:57.025
I love your christian.
00:28:57.025 --> 00:28:58.393
I was just wishing my daughter would be a little older because
00:28:58.393 --> 00:29:00.895
I totally thought we could do arranged marriage.
00:29:00.895 --> 00:29:02.430
The thing that i love is he went through a stage, and he's
00:29:03.665 --> 00:29:07.135
--he and i have talked about this, so he's fine with me
00:29:07.135 --> 00:29:09.270
Saying this
00:29:09.270 --> 00:29:10.438
Where he got kind of disillusioned with the church.
00:29:10.438 --> 00:29:12.407
Sure. where it just he said, it just seems strange to me, mom.
00:29:12.407 --> 00:29:15.310
I just go and i sit in there with a bunch of people i don't
00:29:15.310 --> 00:29:18.446
Really know in a big building, and we'd go through the
00:29:18.446 --> 00:29:21.783
Routine, and then i go home.
00:29:21.783 --> 00:29:24.052
And the burden or the heartache or the anxiety that i had when
00:29:24.152 --> 00:29:28.389
I walked in-- right.
00:29:28.389 --> 00:29:29.724
I have when i walk out.
00:29:29.824 --> 00:29:31.192
Right.
00:29:31.192 --> 00:29:32.560
But now, in fact, last week, he invited his dad and i to come
00:29:32.560 --> 00:29:34.529
To their they go to this little church downtown dallas,
00:29:34.529 --> 00:29:38.299
Multiracial, multigenerational,
00:29:38.399 --> 00:29:40.668
And asked him-- i mean, i loved it.
00:29:40.768 --> 00:29:42.637
The pastor was brilliant.
00:29:42.637 --> 00:29:43.972
If i had him home to have him on a praise because she would
00:29:43.972 --> 00:29:45.773
Love him.
00:29:45.773 --> 00:29:46.441
Yeah. but the i asked
00:29:46.441 --> 00:29:48.676
Christian, what is it about this?
00:29:48.676 --> 00:29:49.911
And he said, because they don't talk about jesus.
00:29:49.911 --> 00:29:52.146
They live-- yes.
00:29:52.146 --> 00:29:53.448
Jesus. you know, they we plant gardens around, and we feed
00:29:53.448 --> 00:29:56.551
People, and we --and
00:29:56.551 --> 00:29:58.519
We go out the back of the house, and that's the house
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:00.321
That we go to the bible study, and we share our lives.
00:30:00.321 --> 00:30:02.657
Right. and it made me hungry for that.
00:30:02.657 --> 00:30:04.659
Oh, one of my mentor professors, doctor jim howard,
00:30:04.659 --> 00:30:07.929
He says this, and he is a brilliant seminarian, has five
00:30:08.029 --> 00:30:11.933
Earned degrees, and he's a pastor.
00:30:11.933 --> 00:30:13.768
Wow. so he's a really cool mix of head and heart.
00:30:13.768 --> 00:30:16.571
And years ago, he asked me this question.
00:30:16.571 --> 00:30:18.273
You know, you have those questions that continue to
00:30:18.273 --> 00:30:20.141
Reverberate for years.
00:30:20.141 --> 00:30:21.409
He said, lisa, if your church closed its doors tomorrow,
00:30:21.509 --> 00:30:24.812
Would the people living across the street be happy?
00:30:24.812 --> 00:30:27.649
Would they be sad or would they even and
00:30:27.649 --> 00:30:29.784
You go, that's the antithesis of how god paints the church
00:30:31.019 --> 00:30:35.390
In the book of acts, the first church.
00:30:35.390 --> 00:30:36.958
We're supposed to model it.
00:30:37.058 --> 00:30:38.359
It says, they were so close and they cared for each other.
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:43.398
They cared for widows.
00:30:43.398 --> 00:30:44.766
They cared for each other when there was a death or a divorce.
00:30:44.766 --> 00:30:47.035
So it wasn't just they were eating onion rings and
00:30:47.035 --> 00:30:51.806
Laughing, but they did life together.
00:30:51.806 --> 00:30:55.076
And it says the community watched them and the community
00:30:55.076 --> 00:30:59.080
Fell in love with jesus because they watched the way they
00:30:59.080 --> 00:31:01.516
Loved each other.
00:31:01.516 --> 00:31:02.684
And you go, that's how we're supposed to do church.
00:31:02.684 --> 00:31:06.154
I was with another, one of my mentor professors recently.
00:31:06.154 --> 00:31:10.792
And he said, you know, if you would listen to this, i don't
00:31:10.892 --> 00:31:14.662
Remember what the generation is called now, generation twelve.
00:31:14.662 --> 00:31:18.666
I get x and y and all of them mixed up.
00:31:18.766 --> 00:31:21.035
But he said, if you'll listen to a young person in your life,
00:31:21.035 --> 00:31:23.137
Let's just say christian's age, and we hear the word
00:31:23.137 --> 00:31:27.976
Deconstruct and we have a couch.
00:31:28.676 --> 00:31:30.178
And we're like, no, the bible's true, the bible's true.
00:31:30.178 --> 00:31:31.946
Yeah. yes.
00:31:31.946 --> 00:31:32.680
The bible's true.
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:33.681
But he said, listen to their questions.
00:31:33.681 --> 00:31:34.916
Yeah. he said, because their questions are rarely--
00:31:34.916 --> 00:31:39.954
They're rarely
00:31:40.388 --> 00:31:42.090
Trying to blow up church.
00:31:42.690 --> 00:31:44.792
They're saying this doesn't look like jesus to me.
00:31:44.892 --> 00:31:47.762
And he said, could some of what we're seeing in young people
00:31:47.762 --> 00:31:52.900
Earnestly seeking jesus be a new reformation?
00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.304
Gosh. i love that.
00:31:56.404 --> 00:31:57.405
Could it be revival?
00:31:57.405 --> 00:31:58.139
And i was like, oh, wowsers.
00:31:58.139 --> 00:32:00.575
Because sometimes we call tradition
00:32:00.575 --> 00:32:04.012
Biblical theology.
00:32:04.512 --> 00:32:05.513
And i'm like, no, that's just preference.
00:32:05.513 --> 00:32:07.415
It's actually not in here.
00:32:07.415 --> 00:32:09.517
And so if it doesn't look like jesus, if it's not shaped
00:32:09.517 --> 00:32:13.955
Like jesus, let's not let it be a sacred cow.
00:32:13.955 --> 00:32:16.290
Let's lay it down and go, how can we be more christoformic?
00:32:16.290 --> 00:32:19.927
Okay. so if you're just joining us, where have you been?
00:32:20.028 --> 00:32:23.664
But this incredible book is called a jesus shaped life
00:32:23.664 --> 00:32:29.070
By lisa harper.
00:32:29.070 --> 00:32:30.304
The subtitle says how diving deeper into theology can
00:32:30.304 --> 00:32:34.008
Transform us and our world with the radical kindness of god.
00:32:34.008 --> 00:32:40.681
You need to get a hold of this book.
00:32:40.681 --> 00:32:42.016
Honestly, it's and you're not gonna read it over lunch.
00:32:42.016 --> 00:32:45.153
I mean, it's you're gonna have to spend some time, but i
00:32:45.153 --> 00:32:47.655
Promise you, it will be time well spent.
00:32:47.655 --> 00:32:49.190
But i noticed something at the top that made me smile.
00:32:49.190 --> 00:32:51.659
It's called a back porch theology book.
00:32:51.659 --> 00:32:53.995
Tell us about that.
00:32:54.529 --> 00:32:56.164
Oh, i always feel silly telling you things.
00:32:56.264 --> 00:33:00.034
Like i feel like a donkey at the kentucky derby.
00:33:00.034 --> 00:33:02.036
Oh, you do so well.
00:33:02.036 --> 00:33:03.704
A couple of years ago, a gentleman asked me to do a
00:33:03.805 --> 00:33:07.642
Podcast, i was like, i would
00:33:07.642 --> 00:33:09.644
Rather stick my hand in a blender.
00:33:09.644 --> 00:33:11.646
I'm like, i do not have time to do a podcast.
00:33:11.646 --> 00:33:14.415
I was like, i'm just kind of
00:33:14.415 --> 00:33:16.284
Juggling as many plates as i can.
00:33:16.284 --> 00:33:17.952
And then he told me a story, and he had been sexually abused
00:33:17.952 --> 00:33:21.389
In the church as a young man.
00:33:21.389 --> 00:33:22.890
Was i loved him immediately because he was adopted.
00:33:22.890 --> 00:33:26.928
And, you know, my daughter is became a mom through the
00:33:26.928 --> 00:33:29.397
Miracle of adoption.
00:33:29.397 --> 00:33:30.698
My daughter's haitian.
00:33:30.698 --> 00:33:31.766
And he said he never felt like he fit.
00:33:31.766 --> 00:33:33.534
He was adopted from an asian country.
00:33:33.534 --> 00:33:35.670
He grew up in an area of
00:33:35.770 --> 00:33:37.138
America where there are no asians.
00:33:37.138 --> 00:33:38.806
So he never felt like he fit.
00:33:38.806 --> 00:33:40.141
He finally felt like he fit in church and then ended up being
00:33:40.141 --> 00:33:43.077
Sexually abused by a man on mission trips for quite
00:33:43.077 --> 00:33:47.515
Some time.
00:33:47.515 --> 00:33:48.783
Finally had the courage, when he was in high school to go to
00:33:48.883 --> 00:33:52.386
The church leaders, and they basically said, be quiet.
00:33:52.386 --> 00:33:54.689
You know, we don't wanna hurt the church's reputation.
00:33:54.689 --> 00:33:56.791
So he ended up leaving church for a long, long time, got into
00:33:56.791 --> 00:33:59.760
Radio, was very, very successful, and didn't darken
00:33:59.760 --> 00:34:02.663
The church for, like, twenty years.
00:34:02.663 --> 00:34:04.665
And he said one day he was lived in minneapolis.
00:34:04.665 --> 00:34:06.801
He's driving down the highway to a very successful job.
00:34:06.801 --> 00:34:09.804
And he said he stayed connected to god through christian music.
00:34:09.904 --> 00:34:13.908
So stephen curtis, michael w, amy, they were his mentors.
00:34:14.008 --> 00:34:18.513
So he said, i never doubted god, but i didn't like
00:34:18.513 --> 00:34:20.915
Christians together because in my experience, they'd been
00:34:20.915 --> 00:34:24.185
Abusive and judgmental.
00:34:24.185 --> 00:34:25.686
But he said, the holy spirit just spoke to him.
00:34:25.786 --> 00:34:28.022
He was in the car.
00:34:28.022 --> 00:34:29.257
The holy spirit said, it's time for you to come back home.
00:34:29.357 --> 00:34:32.260
Wow. it's time for you to come back to the bride because she's
00:34:32.260 --> 00:34:35.029
My bride and i love her.
00:34:35.029 --> 00:34:36.030
He was like, oh, you're kidding me.
00:34:36.030 --> 00:34:37.665
And he said it was through people on the radio that gave
00:34:37.665 --> 00:34:41.135
Him kind of a almost like an on ramp to get back on what god
00:34:41.135 --> 00:34:45.206
Calls us to, which is gathering together with other believers.
00:34:45.206 --> 00:34:48.176
We don't have an option.
00:34:48.276 --> 00:34:49.544
He says, i want you to get together, not to learn stuff,
00:34:49.544 --> 00:34:52.446
Not for it to be transactional, to love each other.
00:34:52.446 --> 00:34:54.815
Yeah. to learn about me, but to love each other, to exercise
00:34:54.815 --> 00:34:57.685
The same isn't it wild i'm thinking that seems like
00:34:57.685 --> 00:35:01.956
The last thing we do?
00:35:01.956 --> 00:35:03.157
Yes. that we come and we sit and we-- yes.
00:35:03.157 --> 00:35:05.393
And then we go out and we hold in
00:35:05.393 --> 00:35:07.061
Our stomachs and we wear emotional spanx.
00:35:07.061 --> 00:35:08.896
And we call it church.
00:35:08.896 --> 00:35:09.997
I'm like, that that's not what he calls church.
00:35:09.997 --> 00:35:11.933
Yeah. he says, come and be honest and help each other and
00:35:11.933 --> 00:35:14.902
Love me and love each other.
00:35:14.902 --> 00:35:16.537
But he said, lisa, there are so many people who will never read
00:35:16.637 --> 00:35:21.075
A book like that, who will never darken the door of a
00:35:21.075 --> 00:35:24.145
Bible study, but they'll turn
00:35:24.145 --> 00:35:25.913
On the radio because they're lonely.
00:35:25.913 --> 00:35:27.682
And it's real, real intimate when they're giving you their
00:35:27.682 --> 00:35:31.519
Earbuds when they're on the elliptical or cooking dinner or
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:33.888
Doing whatever they're doing.
00:35:33.888 --> 00:35:35.156
And he said, you can talk to people
00:35:35.156 --> 00:35:37.725
About us having a god who really loves us, who aren't
00:35:37.825 --> 00:35:41.262
Gonna hear it right now in church.
00:35:41.262 --> 00:35:43.164
And i was like, oh my heavens to betsy.
00:35:43.264 --> 00:35:45.199
Yes. i'll do it.
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:47.034
And so i said, i don't wanna
00:35:47.134 --> 00:35:48.903
Just interview famous christians.
00:35:48.903 --> 00:35:50.638
That's being done real well.
00:35:50.638 --> 00:35:52.206
Other people do that so well.
00:35:52.306 --> 00:35:54.408
Can i talk about theology?
00:35:54.508 --> 00:35:56.010
And i you know, you say the word theology and people are
00:35:56.010 --> 00:35:58.579
Like, oh, because it initially,
00:35:58.579 --> 00:36:01.515
We think that's gonna be boring.
00:36:01.515 --> 00:36:03.384
And i said, no.
00:36:03.384 --> 00:36:04.785
No. theology relational theology.
00:36:04.885 --> 00:36:06.887
Us actually believing that god wants us to be in a close
00:36:06.887 --> 00:36:10.191
Relationship with him.
00:36:10.191 --> 00:36:11.058
And this is a love story.
00:36:11.058 --> 00:36:12.159
It's not a rule book.
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:13.361
And he was like, we can try, but nobody will listen.
00:36:13.361 --> 00:36:16.063
And i said, let's call it back porch theology.
00:36:16.163 --> 00:36:18.532
Because in the south, the front porch sometimes you have to
00:36:18.532 --> 00:36:21.435
Have pretty because people drive by and can see it.
00:36:21.435 --> 00:36:24.205
But the back porch, you've got a car up on blocks.
00:36:24.305 --> 00:36:26.907
You can unbutton your pants.
00:36:26.907 --> 00:36:28.309
That's where you're yourself.
00:36:28.309 --> 00:36:30.544
And i said, i want it to be a place where real people talk
00:36:30.645 --> 00:36:34.448
About real life and a real god who has met us in those places.
00:36:34.448 --> 00:36:37.918
And so it's been really cool.
00:36:38.019 --> 00:36:39.887
Been doing that now for three years.
00:36:39.887 --> 00:36:41.522
And, sheila, we just last week got a message.
00:36:41.522 --> 00:36:44.558
It slays me when we get these.
00:36:45.259 --> 00:36:47.395
You get these all the time at tbn.
00:36:47.395 --> 00:36:50.064
But a woman who was had already had the plan to take her life.
00:36:50.164 --> 00:36:54.068
And somebody on a podcast
00:36:54.068 --> 00:36:57.705
Talked about how god sees her and he loves her.
00:36:57.805 --> 00:37:00.141
And just in that moment, she heard it as she was preparing
00:37:00.141 --> 00:37:03.511
To take her own life because she thought nobody cares.
00:37:03.511 --> 00:37:06.013
And there's no way this god who's a million miles away even
00:37:06.013 --> 00:37:09.016
Sees me, much less cares.
00:37:09.016 --> 00:37:10.818
Plus, i've already sabotaged my shot being a christian because
00:37:10.818 --> 00:37:14.155
I'm not good enough.
00:37:14.155 --> 00:37:15.423
And something she heard on this little podcast caused her to
00:37:15.523 --> 00:37:20.394
Stop, and she didn't take her life.
00:37:20.394 --> 00:37:22.029
Yeah. sometimes i find myself
00:37:22.029 --> 00:37:24.432
Wondering, how did we get it so wrong?
00:37:24.432 --> 00:37:26.934
I mean, jesus makes it so clear
00:37:26.934 --> 00:37:29.036
What it means to be in relationship with him and
00:37:29.036 --> 00:37:32.540
With one another.
00:37:32.540 --> 00:37:33.774
And yet, somehow, we just we've pushed it to a part of our
00:37:33.874 --> 00:37:38.145
Life, like this is the part that god gets, and then this is
00:37:38.145 --> 00:37:40.648
The part that i have.
00:37:40.648 --> 00:37:41.916
What do you say to people who are watching right now who are
00:37:42.016 --> 00:37:44.151
Thinking, i love the talk about a god whose love.
00:37:44.151 --> 00:37:47.888
I love that.
00:37:47.888 --> 00:37:49.190
But right now, my life is terrible.
00:37:49.190 --> 00:37:51.525
Right. so how do you reconcile everything you say about the
00:37:51.525 --> 00:37:55.196
Goodness of god with the things that are not working that
00:37:55.196 --> 00:37:57.898
Are not good
00:37:57.898 --> 00:37:58.366
In my life?
00:37:58.366 --> 00:37:59.400
And, you know, that's an age old question.
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:00.935
People infinitely smarter than me have asked that for
00:38:00.935 --> 00:38:03.904
2000 years since christianity started.
00:38:03.904 --> 00:38:06.674
So there's no way to put in some little formula, an
00:38:06.774 --> 00:38:11.312
Acrostic, or something pithy,
00:38:11.312 --> 00:38:13.848
How god is good and life is hard.
00:38:13.948 --> 00:38:16.283
But this talks about it all the time.
00:38:16.384 --> 00:38:18.452
Scripture, the stories in here
00:38:18.452 --> 00:38:20.788
Don't tiptoe around the hard things.
00:38:20.788 --> 00:38:24.658
I think what came to mind immediately when you said that
00:38:24.759 --> 00:38:27.528
Because i've had recently some moments where i wanted to throw
00:38:27.528 --> 00:38:31.766
In the towel mostly because of hateful christians.
00:38:31.766 --> 00:38:34.535
Not because jesus is anything less than who he says
00:38:35.636 --> 00:38:39.140
He is, but because we do get it wrong sometimes.
00:38:39.140 --> 00:38:41.575
We make it performative.
00:38:41.575 --> 00:38:43.144
The world claps if you do well and jeers if you don't.
00:38:43.144 --> 00:38:46.514
And i'm like, so i think we sometimes superimpose that
00:38:46.514 --> 00:38:49.784
Who our god is.
00:38:49.784 --> 00:38:51.018
But, there's a story in the gospels that's repeated twice
00:38:51.118 --> 00:38:54.021
In luke's and mark's gospel
00:38:54.021 --> 00:38:55.322
Account of this woman who's sick.
00:38:55.322 --> 00:38:58.092
And she's been sick for a long time.
00:38:58.192 --> 00:38:59.660
Mhmm. and, she had an issue of blood, which in their culture,
00:38:59.660 --> 00:39:03.030
Of course, she was segregated.
00:39:03.030 --> 00:39:04.698
So she's not just physically sick.
00:39:04.698 --> 00:39:06.267
She has no community.
00:39:06.267 --> 00:39:07.401
And she touches jesus's tassel when he walks by.
00:39:07.401 --> 00:39:13.541
Jewish men had to wear robes and tassels.
00:39:13.541 --> 00:39:15.509
And so in the original greek, it sounds like, you know, the
00:39:15.509 --> 00:39:18.512
Story, she probably just tips a
00:39:18.512 --> 00:39:20.681
Tassel, and immediately she's healed.
00:39:20.681 --> 00:39:23.684
And jesus is on his way to, you know, a gated community where
00:39:23.784 --> 00:39:26.887
Everybody drives beamers
00:39:26.887 --> 00:39:28.389
If it were to set be set modern context.
00:39:28.389 --> 00:39:30.658
He's on his way to jairus, a
00:39:30.658 --> 00:39:32.893
Guy who's a who's-- he's a big shot.
00:39:32.893 --> 00:39:35.963
And it says jesus stops.
00:39:36.063 --> 00:39:38.399
Mhmm. she's all ready healed.
00:39:38.399 --> 00:39:43.337
So it could have very easily been an end of the story.
00:39:43.437 --> 00:39:46.073
But he puts this important thing on hold and he stops and
00:39:46.073 --> 00:39:51.779
He says, i wanna know who touched me.
00:39:51.779 --> 00:39:53.447
He actually veils his own omniscience out of mercy
00:39:53.447 --> 00:39:57.351
Because numbers says he's not a man that he could lie.
00:39:57.451 --> 00:39:59.787
So he couldn't think, i know it's the little chick over
00:39:59.787 --> 00:40:01.789
There who's kind of anemic because she's had blood loss
00:40:01.789 --> 00:40:04.024
For twelve years, but i'm gonna pretend like i didn't know she
00:40:04.024 --> 00:40:06.026
Touched me, the devotional point will be more poignant.
00:40:06.026 --> 00:40:08.529
He can't do that.
00:40:08.529 --> 00:40:09.330
He's god.
00:40:09.330 --> 00:40:09.830
He can't lie.
00:40:09.830 --> 00:40:10.764
He avails his omniscience.
00:40:10.764 --> 00:40:12.266
And it says, the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came
00:40:12.266 --> 00:40:15.135
Trembling with fear.
00:40:15.135 --> 00:40:16.136
Why is she afraid?
00:40:16.637 --> 00:40:17.838
She's afraid one of us will go, it's the bloody lady.
00:40:17.838 --> 00:40:21.308
She's not allowed to be here.
00:40:21.408 --> 00:40:22.776
She's too broken.
00:40:22.776 --> 00:40:23.511
She's too sick.
00:40:23.511 --> 00:40:24.078
She doesn't
00:40:24.078 --> 00:40:24.745
Sit with she's unclean.
00:40:24.745 --> 00:40:25.312
She's unclean.
00:40:25.312 --> 00:40:26.680
She's not a perky, happy clappy christian who's memorized all
00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:31.318
The right words and filled in all her bible study blanks,
00:40:31.318 --> 00:40:34.522
She's broken.
00:40:34.522 --> 00:40:35.956
And jesus says to her, there's a comma, and then he welcomes
00:40:36.056 --> 00:40:41.161
Her to tell her whole story.
00:40:41.161 --> 00:40:43.964
I mean, you know, there's
00:40:44.064 --> 00:40:45.032
Something about estrogen and word.
00:40:45.032 --> 00:40:46.267
We got a lot of words.
00:40:46.267 --> 00:40:49.136
He listens to her whole story.
00:40:49.136 --> 00:40:52.039
Mhmm. and he says, daughter.
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:54.141
Yeah. in front of people who had kicked her to the curb, he
00:40:54.141 --> 00:40:58.012
Said, she's already healed.
00:40:58.012 --> 00:40:59.413
But he knew her heart was broken.
00:40:59.413 --> 00:41:01.415
Yeah.
00:41:01.415 --> 00:41:02.750
And so i think the kindness of god, if you actually study the
00:41:02.750 --> 00:41:05.519
God in this love story, not necessarily the one on the led
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:09.390
Screens depending on where you go to worship.
00:41:09.390 --> 00:41:13.160
But if you actually dive into the bible, you'll find this
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:16.564
Kind, kind, kind god.
00:41:16.564 --> 00:41:18.666
And it makes me ask a different question.
00:41:18.666 --> 00:41:21.535
I don't ask why as often.
00:41:21.635 --> 00:41:23.537
Now i still have some really cruddy things that happen.
00:41:23.537 --> 00:41:26.173
But instead of saying, why, god?
00:41:26.273 --> 00:41:29.209
I just say, where?
00:41:29.310 --> 00:41:31.011
Because if i've got your presence-- yeah.
00:41:31.011 --> 00:41:33.447
It's what job says at the end of his story.
00:41:33.447 --> 00:41:35.683
Before everything's restored, he says, my ears had heard of
00:41:35.683 --> 00:41:39.386
You, but now my eyes have seen you.
00:41:39.386 --> 00:41:42.056
And he says, you're enough for me.
00:41:42.056 --> 00:41:44.058
You don't have to fix anything.
00:41:44.058 --> 00:41:45.960
I just need you.
00:41:46.393 --> 00:41:47.828
And i think if we could get we have this glorious, kind, holy
00:41:47.928 --> 00:41:53.033
God who leans into relationship with us, who inclines his ear
00:41:53.033 --> 00:41:57.271
To hear us even when we're whiny, then the hard stuff
00:41:57.271 --> 00:42:01.141
Doesn't get any less hard.
00:42:01.141 --> 00:42:03.177
It's just his presence matters even more--
00:42:03.277 --> 00:42:05.913
Yeah.
00:42:05.913 --> 00:42:06.647
Than the difficult chapters.
00:42:06.647 --> 00:42:08.015
You know, it's so funny because for so many years, you know, i
00:42:08.015 --> 00:42:10.818
Would ask questions of the lord, and i thought that what
00:42:10.818 --> 00:42:12.886
I wanted was answers.
00:42:12.886 --> 00:42:13.887
I would read books.
00:42:13.887 --> 00:42:14.555
I would talk to people.
00:42:14.555 --> 00:42:15.522
I would pick your brain because
00:42:15.522 --> 00:42:17.925
You go so you're such a deep well.
00:42:18.025 --> 00:42:20.094
But what i've discovered and i discovered it recently when i
00:42:20.194 --> 00:42:22.663
Thought i had i did a stupid thing and thought i'd broken my
00:42:22.663 --> 00:42:26.634
Neck, so i end up in the er for eighteen hours.
00:42:26.634 --> 00:42:30.104
And what i discovered was, because i'm sitting there
00:42:30.204 --> 00:42:33.540
Thinking, you know, when things happen, they can the ripples go
00:42:33.540 --> 00:42:37.578
Through the family,
00:42:37.578 --> 00:42:38.412
And i'm and they're real.
00:42:38.412 --> 00:42:39.647
They're real relocations, and it's hard.
00:42:39.647 --> 00:42:41.815
And i thought i wanted answers.
00:42:41.815 --> 00:42:43.183
I discovered that actually what
00:42:43.183 --> 00:42:44.785
I wanted was the presence of christ.
00:42:44.785 --> 00:42:47.421
Because i just answers can sometimes we get them, and
00:42:47.521 --> 00:42:50.391
Sometimes we don't.
00:42:50.391 --> 00:42:51.492
But the presence of christ changes everything.
00:42:51.492 --> 00:42:53.327
And i learned that so much through our mutual friend,
00:42:53.327 --> 00:42:56.397
Joni erickson.
00:42:56.397 --> 00:42:57.164
Oh my goodness.
00:42:57.164 --> 00:42:58.465
Who even though she's been a quadriplegic for so many years
00:42:58.465 --> 00:43:01.268
Since she was sixteen,
00:43:01.268 --> 00:43:03.470
Still is able to suffer pain, which just seems like the
00:43:03.570 --> 00:43:06.140
Greatest irony.
00:43:06.140 --> 00:43:07.041
You think if you're paralyzed,
00:43:07.041 --> 00:43:08.509
At least you don't experience pain.
00:43:08.509 --> 00:43:10.010
She does.
00:43:10.010 --> 00:43:11.045
But i've learned so much from
00:43:11.145 --> 00:43:12.446
Her in terms of the presence of christ.
00:43:12.446 --> 00:43:16.550
If you don't follow lisa, you
00:43:17.284 --> 00:43:20.521
Need to follow her on instagram.
00:43:20.521 --> 00:43:23.023
You need to you need to sign up for back porch theology
00:43:23.023 --> 00:43:26.593
Because, honestly, it will be it's not just like, a lot of us
00:43:26.694 --> 00:43:31.198
Sit around and talk a lot.
00:43:31.198 --> 00:43:32.766
You probably noticed that.
00:43:32.766 --> 00:43:34.134
But these are real conversations about real life
00:43:34.134 --> 00:43:38.038
And invite you in.
00:43:38.038 --> 00:43:40.407
So i really whenever you sign up for your podcasts, sign up
00:43:40.407 --> 00:43:43.811
For back porch theology because i promise you.
00:43:43.811 --> 00:43:46.180
And our mutual friend, alison,
00:43:46.180 --> 00:43:48.015
Is with you, and i just love her.
00:43:48.015 --> 00:43:49.650
She loves you.
00:43:49.650 --> 00:43:50.684
She said to tell you,
00:43:50.684 --> 00:43:51.985
I'm supposed to give you a really big bosom squash and hug
00:43:51.985 --> 00:43:54.455
Off camera so it doesn't
00:43:54.455 --> 00:43:56.190
Alarm anyone because she loves you so much.
00:43:56.190 --> 00:43:58.559
I'm thinking of somebody who's sitting at home and
00:43:58.659 --> 00:44:01.261
They're watching us.
00:44:01.261 --> 00:44:02.529
Yeah. and they're thinking, want everything you've been
00:44:02.529 --> 00:44:04.898
Talking about, but i don't even know where to start.
00:44:04.898 --> 00:44:07.701
Yeah. where do you start?
00:44:07.701 --> 00:44:10.037
Because i think before you can change the world, before
00:44:10.037 --> 00:44:14.074
You can reach out and love others-- yeah.
00:44:14.074 --> 00:44:16.510
You need to get how deeply loved you are--
00:44:16.510 --> 00:44:18.412
Yes. yourself.
00:44:18.412 --> 00:44:19.012
Yes.
00:44:19.012 --> 00:44:20.314
Where does somebody who feels distant from god even start?
00:44:20.314 --> 00:44:23.650
This is pretty simplistic.
00:44:24.284 --> 00:44:25.953
I don't remember all the multisyllopic theological
00:44:26.053 --> 00:44:30.791
Terms i've studied.
00:44:30.791 --> 00:44:31.792
But i think we all too often segregate head knowledge from
00:44:33.026 --> 00:44:36.530
Experiential knowledge.
00:44:36.530 --> 00:44:37.965
And where i leaned into jesus is usually pretty experiential.
00:44:38.065 --> 00:44:41.602
And when i'm in a place where i feel like i don't know where to
00:44:41.702 --> 00:44:44.772
Turn next, i go and get warm laundry out of the dryer
00:44:44.772 --> 00:44:48.642
Because i'm single, older, don't always get held.
00:44:48.642 --> 00:44:53.213
And i put laundry, warm laundry on my bed, and i'll lean into
00:44:53.313 --> 00:44:57.384
That pile of clothes.
00:44:57.384 --> 00:44:59.286
And i just pray this real simple prayer, jesus, give me
00:44:59.386 --> 00:45:03.056
The grace to lean more fully into your embrace.
00:45:03.056 --> 00:45:05.926
You don't have to know the big words.
00:45:06.026 --> 00:45:07.928
You don't have to know a bunch of verses.
00:45:08.028 --> 00:45:10.564
You just have to say, will you please give me the grace to
00:45:10.664 --> 00:45:15.202
Lean more into you?
00:45:15.202 --> 00:45:16.403
And he's so kind.
00:45:16.403 --> 00:45:17.971
You know, in the new testament, he says, if you seek me with
00:45:18.071 --> 00:45:21.041
All your heart, you will be found by me.
00:45:21.041 --> 00:45:22.576
And i love that promise.
00:45:22.576 --> 00:45:23.811
But the one in isaiah, i like even more because it says, so
00:45:23.911 --> 00:45:27.314
Great is his love for us that he reveals himself even to
00:45:27.314 --> 00:45:30.884
Those who aren't searching.
00:45:30.884 --> 00:45:32.386
So i think if we just-- if there's an increment of, i want
00:45:32.386 --> 00:45:37.658
To know you, there's an avalanche of compassion that
00:45:37.658 --> 00:45:41.562
He'll give us.
00:45:41.562 --> 00:45:42.930
Find a couple of safe christian friends, find a church that's
00:45:42.930 --> 00:45:46.633
Multicultural, that believes in the bible.
00:45:46.633 --> 00:45:49.803
But i'd say your first step might be leaning into a
00:45:49.803 --> 00:45:53.273
Pile of warm laundry.
00:45:53.273 --> 00:45:54.308
I don't know how that hits you right now.
00:45:55.275 --> 00:45:58.846
I know how it hits me because one of the things that i've
00:45:58.946 --> 00:46:01.415
Been dealing with recently, which probably seems strange
00:46:01.415 --> 00:46:04.017
Because i'm always with people,
00:46:04.017 --> 00:46:06.053
But sometimes i feel profoundly lonely.
00:46:06.153 --> 00:46:08.288
Yeah. you know, just me too.
00:46:08.288 --> 00:46:10.791
There's so much that's going on in the world that's confusing,
00:46:10.791 --> 00:46:13.660
And life's busy, and i love that idea.
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:18.665
You can't pile up whether you're married or not, gonna
00:46:18.665 --> 00:46:21.535
Pile up warm laundry.
00:46:21.535 --> 00:46:22.903
But more than that, just find some time.
00:46:22.903 --> 00:46:26.139
Just take some time to just allow the love of god to
00:46:26.139 --> 00:46:30.911
Penetrate deep into those places and remember how much
00:46:30.911 --> 00:46:35.182
You are loved.
00:46:35.282 --> 00:46:37.451
And, you know, i think sometimes every single one of
00:46:37.551 --> 00:46:40.787
Us longs to be known and to be loved.
00:46:40.787 --> 00:46:45.025
We're so afraid that if we're known, we won't be loved, that
00:46:45.025 --> 00:46:48.528
We trade away being known.
00:46:48.528 --> 00:46:50.664
I just we just want you to know you can be known by the
00:46:50.764 --> 00:46:55.135
Father and loved.
00:46:55.135 --> 00:46:56.436
And, lisa, i would love if you would pray for our viewers.
00:46:56.436 --> 00:46:58.538
Oh, lord.
00:46:58.538 --> 00:46:59.172
For those who are just
00:46:59.172 --> 00:47:00.140
Thinking, lord jesus, it's no accident.
00:47:00.140 --> 00:47:02.142
I'm watching this tonight.
00:47:02.142 --> 00:47:04.077
I can't say it as well as you have said it, but you are
00:47:04.177 --> 00:47:10.284
Known, and you are loved.
00:47:10.284 --> 00:47:12.286
That's this whole story from beginning to end.
00:47:12.286 --> 00:47:15.322
He says, i see you.
00:47:15.322 --> 00:47:16.390
I love you.
00:47:16.390 --> 00:47:17.057
I see you.
00:47:17.057 --> 00:47:17.791
I love you.
00:47:17.791 --> 00:47:19.293
Jesus, jesus, jesus.
00:47:19.826 --> 00:47:21.828
Lord jesus, king jesus, the christ, the rose of sharon, the
00:47:21.828 --> 00:47:26.066
Lily of the valley, the bright morning star, the one who
00:47:26.066 --> 00:47:28.535
Sticks closer than a brother, father, son, and holy spirit.
00:47:28.535 --> 00:47:32.806
Thank you that at the end of the day, the bible is a love
00:47:32.906 --> 00:47:36.443
Story that over and over and over again, you tell us that
00:47:36.443 --> 00:47:41.014
We are your treasure.
00:47:41.014 --> 00:47:42.349
Jesus, you tell us that we, on our worst day, that we're the
00:47:42.349 --> 00:47:46.653
Joy set before you,
00:47:46.653 --> 00:47:48.355
That you endured the cross because of us.
00:47:49.289 --> 00:47:52.459
Oh, father, we confess as your sons and daughters, it is so
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:55.696
Hard for us to believe that a god like you would love
00:47:55.696 --> 00:47:59.066
People like us.
00:47:59.066 --> 00:48:00.334
And so we do pray for more of your holy spirit, that you
00:48:00.334 --> 00:48:02.202
Would open the eyes of our hearts, that we would actually
00:48:02.202 --> 00:48:06.540
Begin to believe you, to take you at your word, that when you
00:48:06.540 --> 00:48:09.276
Say we are beautiful and wonderfully made, that
00:48:09.276 --> 00:48:12.679
Your thoughts of us outnumber the grains of sand,
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.783
That with one glance of
00:48:16.783 --> 00:48:18.185
Our eyes, we captured your heart.
00:48:18.185 --> 00:48:20.787
Thank you.
00:48:21.154 --> 00:48:22.990
Thank you that, you didn't leave us as orphans.
00:48:21.888 --> 00:48:25.258
Jesus, when you ascended into to glory, that you gave us holy
00:48:25.258 --> 00:48:29.029
Spirit, who even in this moment is whispering to all of us,
00:48:29.029 --> 00:48:32.432
Especially these saints who are
00:48:32.532 --> 00:48:34.134
Going, could this be true of me?
00:48:34.134 --> 00:48:36.670
Whispering to all of us, we have the right to call the god
00:48:36.770 --> 00:48:41.074
Who breathed the universe into existence, dad.
00:48:41.074 --> 00:48:43.510
Daddy god, give us the grace to trust that you love us.
00:48:43.510 --> 00:48:48.415
And we pray all these things by the power and the authority of
00:48:48.515 --> 00:48:53.820
Jesus' name and by the authority of the blood he
00:48:53.820 --> 00:48:56.790
Already shed for us because you decided from the beginning that
00:48:56.790 --> 00:49:00.761
We were worth it for you to sacrifice.
00:49:00.761 --> 00:49:03.263
Thank you.
00:49:03.263 --> 00:49:05.165
Help us to rest in your affection.
00:49:03.830 --> 00:49:07.034
Amen.
00:49:07.034 --> 00:49:07.768
Amen. i'll never forget the day, in fact, that it popped up
00:49:09.036 --> 00:49:13.306
On my you know, sometimes you'll get these little
00:49:13.306 --> 00:49:14.908
Memories that pop up on your
00:49:14.908 --> 00:49:16.009
And it was the day that you
00:49:16.009 --> 00:49:18.645
Were bringing missy home from haiti.
00:49:18.645 --> 00:49:21.815
Now you're just trying to make me cry.
00:49:21.915 --> 00:49:24.684
Yes. and i'll never forget
00:49:24.785 --> 00:49:27.287
The look in your eyes as you brought this darling
00:49:28.288 --> 00:49:33.060
Little, frail, fragile little girl home.
00:49:33.060 --> 00:49:37.931
And i found myself wondering when i was reading through some
00:49:38.031 --> 00:49:41.268
Of your book last night, how has being a mother to a little
00:49:41.268 --> 00:49:45.539
Girl impacted how you understand god's love for you?
00:49:45.539 --> 00:49:49.509
Okay. i'm gonna cheat and kind of veer off from your question
00:49:49.509 --> 00:49:52.913
Because we talked about church.
00:49:52.913 --> 00:49:55.348
And what you won't tell anybody because of your humility is you
00:49:55.449 --> 00:49:59.553
Changed your flight.
00:49:59.553 --> 00:50:01.188
And you flew to nashville even
00:50:01.888 --> 00:50:03.657
Though you didn't have to be in nashville.
00:50:03.657 --> 00:50:05.058
You weren't supposed to be in nashville.
00:50:05.058 --> 00:50:06.359
You were speaking somewhere, i don't know, some huge event
00:50:06.359 --> 00:50:08.261
With a bazillion people.
00:50:08.261 --> 00:50:10.297
But you changed your flight and went all the way to nashville
00:50:10.397 --> 00:50:13.900
So you could be behind security.
00:50:13.900 --> 00:50:17.637
So when i brought my daughter through the gate, we see it all
00:50:18.939 --> 00:50:22.309
The time in nashville, c thirteen.
00:50:22.309 --> 00:50:24.344
We came through c thirteen.
00:50:24.444 --> 00:50:26.913
You were there on your knees greeting missy.
00:50:27.013 --> 00:50:30.183
That's church.
00:50:30.183 --> 00:50:32.419
That is the i think that's the sweetest church i've ever
00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:36.656
Gotten to be in.
00:50:36.656 --> 00:50:38.925
Missy's changed everything for me.
00:50:39.759 --> 00:50:41.561
I don't deserve to be a mom.
00:50:41.561 --> 00:50:44.197
I was really broken and really stupid and really afraid of
00:50:44.197 --> 00:50:47.567
Intimacy, but our god is a redeemer.
00:50:47.567 --> 00:50:50.137
And her first mom had died.
00:50:50.137 --> 00:50:52.539
Missy didn't deserve that.
00:50:52.539 --> 00:50:54.141
And to get to be woven into that story with this
00:50:55.175 --> 00:50:58.812
Extraordinary child.
00:50:58.812 --> 00:51:00.914
You know, when i first brought her home from haiti,
00:51:01.014 --> 00:51:03.450
She started i don't know why.
00:51:04.151 --> 00:51:05.685
Missy's not even that athletic,
00:51:05.685 --> 00:51:09.189
But she started jumping off things.
00:51:09.289 --> 00:51:11.424
Just the first couple of weeks i had her home, she would jump
00:51:11.525 --> 00:51:14.327
Off a wall or jump off a fence and kind of squeal because she
00:51:14.327 --> 00:51:18.532
Knew i would catch her.
00:51:18.532 --> 00:51:20.534
And even then, i was like, i don't do this enough with god.
00:51:21.768 --> 00:51:26.039
I don't trust that he'll catch me.
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:28.842
And so i'm still trying to be a dutiful kid.
00:51:28.942 --> 00:51:31.678
Everything about getting to be her mother has amplified who he
00:51:31.778 --> 00:51:36.149
Is as our father.
00:51:36.149 --> 00:51:37.150
I love that promise in luke.
00:51:37.150 --> 00:51:38.685
You know where it says, if even a if even a bad parent, they
00:51:38.685 --> 00:51:43.957
Wouldn't give their child a scorpion if they asked for a
00:51:44.057 --> 00:51:46.526
Fish fillet sandwich,
00:51:46.526 --> 00:51:47.460
How much more?
00:51:47.894 --> 00:51:50.263
I love her.
00:51:50.664 --> 00:51:52.065
I didn't know i could love the way i love my daughter.
00:51:52.065 --> 00:51:55.769
She changed the topography of my heart.
00:51:55.769 --> 00:51:57.938
And to know that is not even a shadow of how god loves
00:51:58.038 --> 00:52:02.909
Me, being her mom. as we were flying to dallas yesterday.
00:52:02.909 --> 00:52:07.914
And i was just trying to tell her that i wouldn't celebrate
00:52:08.014 --> 00:52:10.383
Mother's day without her, that she made me a mom.
00:52:10.383 --> 00:52:12.786
And she goes, mom, i know what you're gonna say.
00:52:12.886 --> 00:52:14.454
And she said-- she's fifteen.
00:52:14.454 --> 00:52:15.855
And i'm getting all estrogeny and weepy.
00:52:15.956 --> 00:52:19.025
And she said, i know what you're gonna say.
00:52:19.025 --> 00:52:20.560
You're gonna say you love me more than anybody except jesus.
00:52:20.560 --> 00:52:23.263
I know.
00:52:23.263 --> 00:52:24.464
I was like, that's exactly what i saying.
00:52:24.564 --> 00:52:28.535
Yeah.
00:52:28.535 --> 00:52:29.302
That's brilliant when i think
00:52:29.302 --> 00:52:30.437
Of the tragedy that little girl--
00:52:30.437 --> 00:52:32.439
Yeah.
00:52:32.439 --> 00:52:33.373
Has walked through in her early life.
00:52:33.373 --> 00:52:34.808
But i got to see her recently a few months ago, and you and i
00:52:34.908 --> 00:52:37.644
Were both speaking at the same conference, and i hadn't seen
00:52:37.644 --> 00:52:39.646
Her in a long time.
00:52:39.646 --> 00:52:41.481
And there's something that's just, a, i do believe god had a
00:52:41.581 --> 00:52:45.819
Protective hand over her-- yeah.
00:52:45.819 --> 00:52:47.387
With the things because there's a lot of scars
00:52:47.387 --> 00:52:49.823
That should be very apparent yes.
00:52:49.823 --> 00:52:51.758
That she doesn't seem to carry.
00:52:51.758 --> 00:52:53.760
Yeah. obviously, she'll have things to work through as she
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:55.829
Gets through in life.
00:52:55.829 --> 00:52:57.097
But i've watched the way that she has grown into this young
00:52:57.197 --> 00:53:00.400
Woman, and i think i remember your story so many
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:05.405
Years back of putting yourself out to become an adoptive
00:53:05.405 --> 00:53:10.677
Mom and having literally not just a rug, but a whole floor
00:53:10.677 --> 00:53:14.681
Pulled out from underneath you.
00:53:14.681 --> 00:53:16.016
Yeah. and yet you still-- i think one of the
00:53:16.016 --> 00:53:19.819
Things i love most about you, barry and i were talking
00:53:19.819 --> 00:53:21.655
About this the other day, is your continual yes to god.
00:53:21.655 --> 00:53:27.027
Because i think sometimes we get a little, you know,
00:53:27.027 --> 00:53:30.664
Bruised by life.
00:53:30.664 --> 00:53:31.197
Oh, yeah.
00:53:31.197 --> 00:53:32.365
You know, and by other believers, and, you know, we
00:53:32.365 --> 00:53:33.767
Can be so stupid about so many things.
00:53:33.767 --> 00:53:35.802
Mhmm.
00:53:35.802 --> 00:53:37.037
But the thing that i've watched in you that has never
00:53:37.037 --> 00:53:40.040
Diminished is you continue to say yes to god.
00:53:40.040 --> 00:53:45.278
You're kind.
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:47.914
No. i'm not.
00:53:47.914 --> 00:53:48.648
You know me.
00:53:48.648 --> 00:53:49.249
Really, really kind.
00:53:49.249 --> 00:53:50.350
Do you know missy still calls you aunt sheila?
00:53:50.350 --> 00:53:51.685
Oh, i love that.
00:53:51.685 --> 00:53:52.786
She remembers. that dented her heart in the most
00:53:52.786 --> 00:53:57.791
Redemptive way that you were standing there, that you were
00:53:57.791 --> 00:54:00.527
The first person who just enveloped her.
00:54:00.527 --> 00:54:03.396
She loves when she sees you, you know, we'll see you
00:54:03.396 --> 00:54:06.700
On tv, and she's like, sheila looks so pretty today.
00:54:06.700 --> 00:54:09.903
And i'm like, i'm so amused
00:54:09.903 --> 00:54:11.137
That you still call her aunt sheila.
00:54:11.137 --> 00:54:12.772
And to her, it's just like, that's my aunt sheila up
00:54:12.772 --> 00:54:16.276
There on the screen.
00:54:16.276 --> 00:54:17.277
You have loved us really well.
00:54:17.277 --> 00:54:18.511
Thank you.
00:54:18.511 --> 00:54:19.412
So this book,
00:54:19.512 --> 00:54:21.181
Lisa harper and you need to buy the book even for the forward.
00:54:21.281 --> 00:54:24.517
The forward is so brilliant by scott mcknight.
00:54:24.517 --> 00:54:27.887
A jesus shaped life, how diving deeper into theology can
00:54:27.887 --> 00:54:32.258
Transform us and our world with the radical kindness of god,
00:54:32.258 --> 00:54:37.163
Not with more knowledge that's right.
00:54:37.163 --> 00:54:38.832
But with a radical kindness of god.
00:54:38.832 --> 00:54:41.034
Let me just ask a simple question.
00:54:41.134 --> 00:54:44.304
But when people get this book, because i pray they will,
00:54:44.404 --> 00:54:47.040
And they get to them, what's your prayer?
00:54:47.140 --> 00:54:48.908
What do you pray the thumbprint would be in their heart?
00:54:48.908 --> 00:54:52.312
I pray they would be
00:54:52.312 --> 00:54:54.881
Gobsmacked,
00:54:55.281 --> 00:54:56.149
Undone. i pray somebody who is not prone to giggle will giggle
00:54:57.450 --> 00:55:03.156
With, he loves me.
00:55:03.156 --> 00:55:05.191
Just this, i pray more of us would jump off high things and
00:55:05.191 --> 00:55:08.895
Trust that god will catch us.
00:55:08.895 --> 00:55:10.397
Wow. that is absolutely beautiful.
00:55:10.397 --> 00:55:12.632
So thanks for being with us.
00:55:13.299 --> 00:55:15.702
And remember, if you missed if you know somebody who you
00:55:15.702 --> 00:55:19.072
Think, i wish they'd seen this program, but, you know, they
00:55:19.072 --> 00:55:21.541
They were out doing something,
00:55:21.541 --> 00:55:23.209
Do you know you can download the tbn+ app?
00:55:23.309 --> 00:55:25.912
And you can watch the show back anytime?
00:55:25.912 --> 00:55:28.181
And i would really encourage you to do that, and maybe even
00:55:28.181 --> 00:55:30.884
With a small group of you.
00:55:30.884 --> 00:55:32.285
You know, maybe you think, well, i wish i knew how to be
00:55:32.285 --> 00:55:34.654
More in community.
00:55:34.654 --> 00:55:35.922
Maybe invite two or three people that you trust around
00:55:35.922 --> 00:55:37.924
And sit and watch this together and get your very own copy of
00:55:37.924 --> 00:55:41.394
This book.
00:55:41.394 --> 00:55:42.695
Sure. because trust me, it's one of those things you're
00:55:42.695 --> 00:55:44.397
Gonna underline and go back to over and over again.
00:55:44.397 --> 00:55:48.201
And just remember here at tbn, we love you.
00:55:48.201 --> 00:55:50.737
We're committed to walking all the way home.
00:55:51.771 --> 00:55:54.541
And, lisa, thank you.
00:55:54.541 --> 00:55:55.809
Thank you so much for pouring your life into this book.
00:55:55.809 --> 00:55:59.279
It's been a joy to be with you.
00:55:59.279 --> 00:56:01.514
It always is.
00:56:01.514 --> 00:56:02.282
See you next time.
00:56:02.282 --> 00:56:03.650
♪♪
00:56:03.650 --> 00:56:03.650

Lisa Harper: A Jesus Shaped Life | Praise

May 22, 2025 | 56:19

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