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Mark Lanier: Justice, Jesus, and the Power of Evidence | Praise

August 19, 2025 | S25 E819 | 57:32

Mark Lanier: Justice, Jesus, and the Power of Evidence | Praise
Matt and Laurie Crouch sit down with Mark Lanier to explore Justice, Jesus, and the Power of Evidence. Mark shares how faith and the legal world intersect, revealing how truth and justice reflect the heart of Christ.
#inActive #Justice #Law #Crime #Truth #Culture #GlorifyGod #Bible #Education #Author #Humor #PersonalStory

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Praise | Mark Lanier: Justice, Jesus, and the Power of Evidence | Praise | August 19, 2025
  • - tonight on praise.
  • 00:00:02.525 --> 00:00:05.328
  • He has been called a courtroom preacher and a legal
  • 00:00:05.328 --> 00:00:07.464
  • Heavyweight, mark lanier has become one of america's most
  • 00:00:07.464 --> 00:00:09.966
  • Respected and feared trial attorneys.
  • 00:00:09.966 --> 00:00:12.869
  • Turning courtrooms into battle grounds for truth.
  • 00:00:12.869 --> 00:00:15.705
  • He took on a large corporation and won a historic a $4.69
  • 00:00:15.705 --> 00:00:19.909
  • Billion verdict exposing what the company kept hidden about
  • 00:00:19.909 --> 00:00:23.379
  • Asbestos in baby powder.
  • 00:00:23.379 --> 00:00:25.215
  • - these images show traces of asbestos in baby powder.
  • 00:00:25.215 --> 00:00:28.751
  • - it's the asbestos within the talc that causes the health
  • 00:00:28.751 --> 00:00:30.920
  • Problems we most directly see.
  • 00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:33.423
  • - the company was charged a debt of $4.69 billion.
  • 00:00:33.423 --> 00:00:36.092
  • - he battled big pharma over dangerous drugs.
  • 00:00:36.092 --> 00:00:41.197
  • He went up against oil giants and walked away with
  • 00:00:41.197 --> 00:00:42.832
  • Verdicts that rewrote history.
  • 00:00:42.832 --> 00:00:44.300
  • But behind every headline is a heart on fire for god.
  • 00:00:44.300 --> 00:00:48.171
  • - the moral to the story is don't live by bread alone live
  • 00:00:48.171 --> 00:00:52.208
  • By every word that comes from the lord every temptation
  • 00:00:52.208 --> 00:00:54.978
  • Jesus had his answer comes from scripture.
  • 00:00:54.978 --> 00:00:58.181
  • - mark lanier is a devoted sunday school teacher, a
  • 00:00:58.181 --> 00:01:00.750
  • Defender of faith and the founder of one of the world's
  • 00:01:00.750 --> 00:01:03.853
  • Most unique treasures.
  • 00:01:03.853 --> 00:01:05.555
  • The lanier theological library sanctuary of learning built to
  • 00:01:05.555 --> 00:01:09.092
  • Glorify the author of all truth.
  • 00:01:09.092 --> 00:01:11.728
  • He doesn't just believe in justice in the courtroom, he
  • 00:01:11.728 --> 00:01:15.131
  • Believes in the power of scripture to transform lives.
  • 00:01:15.131 --> 00:01:18.168
  • Tonight we will walk through the trials that shaped him,
  • 00:01:19.302 --> 00:01:22.805
  • The faith that fuels him and the calling that drives him to
  • 00:01:22.805 --> 00:01:26.376
  • Glorify god through every battle.
  • 00:01:26.376 --> 00:01:29.179
  • Tonight's guest mark lanier.
  • 00:01:29.179 --> 00:01:31.247
  • And this is praise.
  • 00:01:31.247 --> 00:01:34.484
  • - we are in houston today for praise and we are at the
  • 00:01:34.484 --> 00:01:38.955
  • Lanier theological library.
  • 00:01:38.955 --> 00:01:40.757
  • So mark welcome to your own library.
  • 00:01:40.757 --> 00:01:45.128
  • - it is exciting to be here with you all.
  • 00:01:45.128 --> 00:01:47.297
  • - thank you for allowing us to come and be with you.
  • 00:01:47.297 --> 00:01:50.733
  • You know there's another preacher here in houston and
  • 00:01:50.733 --> 00:01:55.805
  • He is a friend of mine and he does this he said you know i
  • 00:01:55.805 --> 00:02:01.110
  • Would like to start with something a little funny.
  • 00:02:01.110 --> 00:02:03.313
  • I like to start with something you know, maybe you know what
  • 00:02:03.313 --> 00:02:06.449
  • I'm talking about.
  • 00:02:06.449 --> 00:02:07.784
  • - i think i do.
  • 00:02:07.784 --> 00:02:09.085
  • - so you are a lawyer, can you give us one of your favorite
  • 00:02:09.085 --> 00:02:10.787
  • Lawyer jokes?
  • 00:02:10.787 --> 00:02:12.055
  • Just to start with something a little funny?
  • 00:02:12.055 --> 00:02:14.891
  • - well i think it would be the doctor and the engineer and
  • 00:02:14.891 --> 00:02:18.728
  • The lawyer who are arguing about the world's oldest
  • 00:02:18.728 --> 00:02:22.298
  • Profession.
  • 00:02:22.298 --> 00:02:23.866
  • Doctor says it's gotta be medicine.
  • 00:02:23.866 --> 00:02:26.736
  • God did surgery on adam, took a rib and it made eve.
  • 00:02:26.736 --> 00:02:30.273
  • The engineer said no, it's engineering.
  • 00:02:30.273 --> 00:02:34.344
  • God made creation out of chaos.
  • 00:02:34.344 --> 00:02:37.880
  • And the lawyer said me, who do you think caused the chaos?
  • 00:02:37.880 --> 00:02:43.620
  • - okay that was good mark.
  • 00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:48.291
  • - you know.
  • 00:02:48.291 --> 00:02:49.525
  • It was either that or why don't sharks eat lawyers?
  • 00:02:49.525 --> 00:02:53.363
  • Professional courtesy.
  • 00:02:53.363 --> 00:02:54.897
  • It's one or the other.
  • 00:02:54.897 --> 00:02:58.001
  • - so listen that's funny to me, and i like it and oddly
  • 00:02:58.001 --> 00:03:03.106
  • You win a little bit of a trophy because at some point i
  • 00:03:03.106 --> 00:03:09.145
  • Am not sure i have interviewed somebody that has been you
  • 00:03:09.145 --> 00:03:14.083
  • Know i've interviewed a lot of people that have been lawyer
  • 00:03:14.083 --> 00:03:19.489
  • In this in that, you kind of have a little bit of that 52
  • 00:03:19.489 --> 00:03:23.326
  • We will get into that, but you are a you teach a bible study
  • 00:03:23.326 --> 00:03:28.231
  • You're writing books on either theological books your writing
  • 00:03:28.231 --> 00:03:32.101
  • On law books, your law practice does little cases
  • 00:03:32.101 --> 00:03:38.741
  • Like you know johnson & johnson and these types of
  • 00:03:38.741 --> 00:03:42.578
  • Things you know just so your firm has been a part of some
  • 00:03:42.578 --> 00:03:48.818
  • Of the largest jury award kind of vibe in the history of
  • 00:03:48.818 --> 00:03:53.723
  • Jurisprudence.
  • 00:03:53.723 --> 00:03:54.757
  • We get all that, and there's a lot to that.
  • 00:03:54.757 --> 00:03:58.961
  • What we are really wanting to know is interesting.
  • 00:03:58.961 --> 00:04:03.499
  • I wanted to start by saying where we met, we met in oxford
  • 00:04:03.499 --> 00:04:06.169
  • In a beautiful place that also is yours, and that is where we
  • 00:04:06.169 --> 00:04:13.209
  • Had the opportunity for the very first time to interview
  • 00:04:13.209 --> 00:04:15.745
  • N.t. wright.
  • 00:04:15.745 --> 00:04:17.580
  • Let's start where do you want to kinda get started
  • 00:04:17.580 --> 00:04:24.687
  • Give us a little bit about who you are, then we are going to
  • 00:04:24.687 --> 00:04:27.657
  • Get into a much bigger subject a little bit later but start
  • 00:04:27.657 --> 00:04:30.660
  • With a little bit about you.
  • 00:04:30.660 --> 00:04:32.628
  • - well the important stuff is i am married to my best friend
  • 00:04:32.628 --> 00:04:35.064
  • And love my sweet wife becky.
  • 00:04:35.064 --> 00:04:37.734
  • We have five children each of whom are married.
  • 00:04:37.734 --> 00:04:41.371
  • We have 12 grandchildren including a granddaughter that
  • 00:04:41.371 --> 00:04:43.740
  • I believe was born just about the same time your grandson
  • 00:04:43.740 --> 00:04:47.443
  • Was born.
  • 00:04:47.443 --> 00:04:48.811
  • And so i think my family without a doubt is the
  • 00:04:48.811 --> 00:04:53.583
  • Greatest part of my faith life.
  • 00:04:53.583 --> 00:04:56.953
  • And they are fantastic and then i practice law for a living.
  • 00:04:56.953 --> 00:05:01.991
  • I have offices in new york, la, houston, and puerto rico.
  • 00:05:01.991 --> 00:05:08.698
  • I practice coast-to-coast, and i do work hard at church and i
  • 00:05:08.698 --> 00:05:15.705
  • Teach a class every sunday.
  • 00:05:15.705 --> 00:05:18.574
  • We will have 500 or 600 live, at least 500 or 600
  • 00:05:18.574 --> 00:05:22.378
  • Streaming on the internet if not more.
  • 00:05:22.378 --> 00:05:25.782
  • And it's my joy.
  • 00:05:25.782 --> 00:05:27.417
  • - mark lanier is one of america's most formidable
  • 00:05:27.417 --> 00:05:31.587
  • Trial lawyers.
  • 00:05:31.587 --> 00:05:33.256
  • A courtroom legend whose legal victories have shaken
  • 00:05:33.256 --> 00:05:36.692
  • Industries and made history.
  • 00:05:36.692 --> 00:05:37.894
  • Lanier rose to national prominence with his billion
  • 00:05:37.894 --> 00:05:40.830
  • Dollar verdicts against corporate giants.
  • 00:05:40.830 --> 00:05:42.865
  • His courtroom charisma, backed by meticulous
  • 00:05:42.865 --> 00:05:46.035
  • Preparation and deep understanding of jury
  • 00:05:46.035 --> 00:05:49.439
  • Psychology has earned him a reputation as a modern-day
  • 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:52.642
  • David.
  • 00:05:52.642 --> 00:05:53.810
  • Facing off against goliath, but beyond the courtroom
  • 00:05:53.810 --> 00:05:55.778
  • Lanier is a scholar and visionary.
  • 00:05:55.778 --> 00:05:58.581
  • In houston he built the lanier theological library
  • 00:05:58.581 --> 00:06:00.583
  • World-class research center housing thousands of rare text
  • 00:06:00.583 --> 00:06:04.420
  • Ancient manuscripts and artifacts.
  • 00:06:04.420 --> 00:06:07.423
  • It's a place where faith, history and intellect meet.
  • 00:06:07.423 --> 00:06:10.860
  • Reflecting lanier's passion for law theology and
  • 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:13.496
  • Education.
  • 00:06:13.496 --> 00:06:14.897
  • Mark lanier is not just winning verdicts, he is
  • 00:06:14.897 --> 00:06:17.800
  • Building a legacy that bridges justice, knowledge and faith.
  • 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.437
  • ♪ (music playing)
  • 00:06:21.437 --> 00:06:27.043
  • - what came first lawyer or theologian?
  • 00:06:27.043 --> 00:06:28.644
  • - that's a really good question so when i was in
  • 00:06:28.644 --> 00:06:32.548
  • Ninth grade, they gave us this test to see what our skills
  • 00:06:32.548 --> 00:06:35.351
  • Were.
  • 00:06:35.351 --> 00:06:36.619
  • And i topped out at either being a preacher, a lawyer, or
  • 00:06:36.619 --> 00:06:40.356
  • A politician.
  • 00:06:40.356 --> 00:06:41.958
  • So i thought i would go for at least two of them.
  • 00:06:41.958 --> 00:06:44.427
  • So i studied to be a preacher then went to law school and
  • 00:06:44.427 --> 00:06:47.830
  • Then did both.
  • 00:06:47.830 --> 00:06:49.131
  • - wow, okay where did all this come from?
  • 00:06:49.131 --> 00:06:51.868
  • - i needed some place to put my books, i hope you get some
  • 00:06:51.868 --> 00:06:55.671
  • B roll in the library.
  • 00:06:55.671 --> 00:06:56.973
  • We got over 100,000 volumes here about 75 patrons a day, i
  • 00:06:56.973 --> 00:07:01.077
  • Wanted something that would minister to the church at
  • 00:07:01.077 --> 00:07:05.181
  • Large, and you can you got the benefit through tbn of
  • 00:07:05.181 --> 00:07:09.485
  • Ministering to gazillions of people around the globe and
  • 00:07:09.485 --> 00:07:13.356
  • I'm convinced out into space may be, you know i mean the
  • 00:07:13.356 --> 00:07:16.726
  • Signals go everywhere, and i can't do that, but what i can
  • 00:07:16.726 --> 00:07:20.663
  • Do is help train the people and give resources to the
  • 00:07:20.663 --> 00:07:24.901
  • People who can be on your show.
  • 00:07:24.901 --> 00:07:26.502
  • And that can help provide the tom wrights' of the world with
  • 00:07:26.502 --> 00:07:29.872
  • The resources to do their work.
  • 00:07:29.872 --> 00:07:32.842
  • - friends of n.t. wright call him tom wright, i can't do that,
  • 00:07:32.842 --> 00:07:37.647
  • I physically can't say those words, but bishop n.t. wright,
  • 00:07:37.647 --> 00:07:45.121
  • Studies here at the lanier theological library and by the
  • 00:07:45.121 --> 00:07:48.691
  • Way, teaches.
  • 00:07:48.691 --> 00:07:51.961
  • We are going to tour this a bit, so where did it come
  • 00:07:51.961 --> 00:07:57.033
  • From?
  • 00:07:57.033 --> 00:07:59.335
  • - it's got an oxford vibe.
  • 00:07:59.335 --> 00:08:02.004
  • - totally.
  • 00:08:02.004 --> 00:08:03.673
  • - so what i did was when my wife and i decided that we
  • 00:08:03.673 --> 00:08:05.908
  • Would build this library i told becky i'm going to go
  • 00:08:05.908 --> 00:08:07.710
  • Over to oxford and i'm designing a library.
  • 00:08:07.710 --> 00:08:12.848
  • So our son spent 12 years there.
  • 00:08:12.848 --> 00:08:14.817
  • He chased and got several degrees from oxford.
  • 00:08:14.817 --> 00:08:17.920
  • I called him up and said hey can you show me the
  • 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:19.789
  • Prettiest libraries in oxford if i come over for a day?
  • 00:08:19.789 --> 00:08:22.658
  • Bless his heart i got pictures of him standing on chairs
  • 00:08:22.658 --> 00:08:25.528
  • Holding tape measures and when nobody's looking, and then on
  • 00:08:25.528 --> 00:08:31.434
  • The way home i took my favorite features of the seven
  • 00:08:31.434 --> 00:08:33.035
  • Libraries we toured and i mashed them all up.
  • 00:08:33.035 --> 00:08:35.004
  • Into one drawing and then we built this with no architect,
  • 00:08:35.004 --> 00:08:40.876
  • No engineer, no city approval.
  • 00:08:40.876 --> 00:08:44.113
  • We were outside the city limits, and we built this
  • 00:08:44.113 --> 00:08:47.617
  • Place in less than a year.
  • 00:08:47.617 --> 00:08:48.417
  • - and that is legal?
  • 00:08:48.417 --> 00:08:50.886
  • - it is.
  • 00:08:50.886 --> 00:08:51.988
  • Yeah.
  • 00:08:51.988 --> 00:08:52.688
  • - i covered the law first.
  • 00:08:52.688 --> 00:08:56.492
  • - but take me you know that's the what give me the why.
  • 00:08:56.492 --> 00:09:00.363
  • - i recognize that we live in a time where there's ready
  • 00:09:00.363 --> 00:09:08.137
  • Availability of questionable data.
  • 00:09:08.137 --> 00:09:10.773
  • You can get on the internet and you can find anybody to
  • 00:09:10.773 --> 00:09:14.477
  • Say anything, but where is the material that's put out by the
  • 00:09:14.477 --> 00:09:18.581
  • Right people that you can look at and you can make sure is
  • 00:09:18.581 --> 00:09:21.984
  • Correct?
  • 00:09:21.984 --> 00:09:23.486
  • And that's still to some degree books.
  • 00:09:23.486 --> 00:09:26.122
  • Good books.
  • 00:09:26.122 --> 00:09:28.424
  • Real books.
  • 00:09:28.424 --> 00:09:30.993
  • And so i wanted to provide that resource to people who
  • 00:09:30.993 --> 00:09:35.598
  • Could use that resource whether it's preachers,
  • 00:09:35.598 --> 00:09:40.369
  • Whether it's academics or whether it's ordinary people
  • 00:09:40.369 --> 00:09:44.440
  • Who just want to sit down and have a good place to study and
  • 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:51.147
  • Pray and think, so we built a chapel.
  • 00:09:51.147 --> 00:09:54.150
  • We built the library, we built a learning center, we've got
  • 00:09:54.150 --> 00:09:58.554
  • Well over a hundred 20,000 ft.2 of buildings right now
  • 00:09:58.554 --> 00:10:02.224
  • That are trying to minister in a denominational pigeonhole
  • 00:10:02.224 --> 00:10:07.663
  • You want to minister to the capital kingdom at large.
  • 00:10:07.663 --> 00:10:13.836
  • That's all we seek to do.
  • 00:10:13.836 --> 00:10:15.071
  • So we have a first edition of everything cs lewis ever
  • 00:10:15.071 --> 00:10:19.742
  • Wrote.
  • 00:10:19.742 --> 00:10:20.876
  • We also got some of his handwritten letters and
  • 00:10:20.876 --> 00:10:23.679
  • Handwritten sermons and original drawings in the
  • 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:25.648
  • Chronicles of narnia, and i call this bait because it
  • 00:10:25.648 --> 00:10:32.254
  • Makes people want to come to the library.
  • 00:10:32.254 --> 00:10:36.892
  • We've got wonderful archaeological finds and some
  • 00:10:36.892 --> 00:10:40.529
  • Of them are replicas and some of them are authentic.
  • 00:10:40.529 --> 00:10:45.534
  • You got some actual [indiscernible] fragments that
  • 00:10:45.534 --> 00:10:48.037
  • Are authentic when everybody was challenging whether or not
  • 00:10:48.037 --> 00:10:52.241
  • The museum in the bible was authentic.
  • 00:10:52.241 --> 00:10:53.709
  • This is the oldest fragment of amos out there.
  • 00:10:53.709 --> 00:10:56.245
  • And i got called by the media.
  • 00:10:56.245 --> 00:10:58.848
  • They said how do you know yours is real?
  • 00:10:58.848 --> 00:11:00.549
  • And i said well it's been authenticated, besides, if you
  • 00:11:00.549 --> 00:11:03.219
  • Were going to fake a scroll, would you fake the
  • 00:11:03.219 --> 00:11:07.990
  • Passage that says your wife will become a -- in the
  • 00:11:07.990 --> 00:11:11.093
  • Streets and your children die by the sword?
  • 00:11:11.093 --> 00:11:13.329
  • No you are going to fake hero israel the lord by god
  • 00:11:13.329 --> 00:11:16.232
  • The lord is won.
  • 00:11:16.232 --> 00:11:20.236
  • So we have seven public lectures a year, and we had a
  • 00:11:20.236 --> 00:11:25.641
  • Wide array of speakers.
  • 00:11:25.641 --> 00:11:28.811
  • Including justice scalia when he was alive, the chapel itself
  • 00:11:28.811 --> 00:11:34.016
  • We will see it about 250-275 and then we wound up having
  • 00:11:34.016 --> 00:11:37.787
  • Overflow.
  • 00:11:37.787 --> 00:11:39.188
  • So when scalia was here it was you know everybody wanted to
  • 00:11:39.188 --> 00:11:43.425
  • Come, and n.t. wright shows up everybody wants to come.
  • 00:11:43.425 --> 00:11:48.164
  • Let's see what you think.
  • 00:11:48.164 --> 00:11:49.865
  • This chapel is a replica, think about it was built in
  • 00:11:49.865 --> 00:11:54.904
  • 500 a.d.
  • 00:11:54.904 --> 00:11:56.505
  • The roman empire's illiteracy is 98%.
  • 00:11:56.505 --> 00:11:58.707
  • How do you teach doctrine theology bible for a thousand
  • 00:11:58.707 --> 00:12:06.515
  • Years when the church will not own a bible?
  • 00:12:06.515 --> 00:12:10.553
  • And they could not read it if they had one.
  • 00:12:10.553 --> 00:12:13.088
  • So they grabbed everything at their disposal to do it.
  • 00:12:13.088 --> 00:12:16.592
  • Including architecture.
  • 00:12:16.592 --> 00:12:18.394
  • So this is in the shape of a cross, and the reason why is
  • 00:12:18.394 --> 00:12:23.766
  • The first thing you build is a foundation and i wanted the
  • 00:12:23.766 --> 00:12:27.369
  • Church to understand the foundation of the church is
  • 00:12:27.369 --> 00:12:30.005
  • The cross of christ.
  • 00:12:30.005 --> 00:12:31.273
  • The elevated this part of it because if christ were laid
  • 00:12:31.273 --> 00:12:37.346
  • Out on here, this is where his heart is.
  • 00:12:37.346 --> 00:12:39.648
  • And they thought of god as being up in the sky heaven.
  • 00:12:39.648 --> 00:12:42.418
  • And so they said man's heart has never extended as close to
  • 00:12:42.418 --> 00:12:50.593
  • God as when jesus lay on the cross to die for his church.
  • 00:12:50.593 --> 00:12:56.799
  • - most people do not know much about your profession, which
  • 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:02.304
  • Is jury trials.
  • 00:13:02.304 --> 00:13:07.243
  • So you are the guy that goes in and says ladies and
  • 00:13:07.243 --> 00:13:11.313
  • Gentlemen of the jury what this case is really about is
  • 00:13:11.313 --> 00:13:15.017
  • This or that or the other thing.
  • 00:13:15.017 --> 00:13:17.987
  • How long have you been doing that?
  • 00:13:17.987 --> 00:13:21.557
  • - 41 years.
  • 00:13:21.557 --> 00:13:23.359
  • I have tried more than i can count but i am the guy that
  • 00:13:23.359 --> 00:13:25.060
  • Stands up, although several of my most recent cases two of my
  • 00:13:25.060 --> 00:13:32.801
  • Daughters are lawyers now they work with me so i got to
  • 00:13:32.801 --> 00:13:36.906
  • Stand up and say i'll be trying this case, with my
  • 00:13:36.906 --> 00:13:40.676
  • Daughter rachel with my daughter sarah and they are
  • 00:13:40.676 --> 00:13:43.112
  • Sitting there just wonderful young ladies and the jury i
  • 00:13:43.112 --> 00:13:45.681
  • Mean we are like the bond trap family lawyers at this point,
  • 00:13:45.681 --> 00:13:49.151
  • So but i'm the guy who stands up and says it.
  • 00:13:49.151 --> 00:13:52.221
  • - okay take me inside of one of these
  • 00:13:52.221 --> 00:13:57.393
  • Kind of big cases for a moment because i-- that
  • 00:13:57.393 --> 00:13:59.395
  • I know of i have never been inside of a jury trial i've
  • 00:13:59.395 --> 00:14:06.936
  • Been adjunct to them and i've seen a few things on tv, we
  • 00:14:06.936 --> 00:14:10.673
  • Saw you know sometimes cameras are brought into high-profile
  • 00:14:10.673 --> 00:14:17.012
  • Cases and you get to see it's not like i am completely void
  • 00:14:17.012 --> 00:14:20.215
  • Of understanding but what is your job really to do and
  • 00:14:20.215 --> 00:14:24.186
  • Communicate to a jury when you step into and you are
  • 00:14:24.186 --> 00:14:25.821
  • Representing the kingdom of god and you're representing
  • 00:14:25.821 --> 00:14:32.861
  • Jurisprudence at the same time?
  • 00:14:32.861 --> 00:14:36.799
  • - it's interesting every year, i teach lawyers who walk in my
  • 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:40.502
  • Profession how to try a lawsuit the way i try it the way
  • 00:14:40.502 --> 00:14:45.574
  • I do it, and i have over a thousand lawyers who dedicate
  • 00:14:45.574 --> 00:14:49.745
  • 2 1/2 days to come learn.
  • 00:14:49.745 --> 00:14:51.480
  • I will speak for 20 hours and they get their legal education
  • 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:55.117
  • Credit for this.
  • 00:14:55.117 --> 00:14:56.418
  • And i tell them here's your 20 hours of lecture i will give,
  • 00:14:56.418 --> 00:14:58.554
  • But if you want to show up an hour early on the last day i
  • 00:14:58.554 --> 00:15:04.626
  • Will tell you the real secret.
  • 00:15:04.626 --> 00:15:06.261
  • And they come the last day and out of a thousand i tell him i
  • 00:15:06.261 --> 00:15:10.065
  • Don't want to play hide the ball, i'm gonna talk
  • 00:15:10.065 --> 00:15:13.902
  • About my faith.
  • 00:15:13.902 --> 00:15:15.070
  • But out of the thousand attending this seminar 650
  • 00:15:15.070 --> 00:15:18.807
  • Will show up for that extra hour because i tell them
  • 00:15:18.807 --> 00:15:20.809
  • That's the real secret: what my job really is is to make
  • 00:15:20.809 --> 00:15:27.649
  • Sure the truth gets out.
  • 00:15:27.649 --> 00:15:30.285
  • The jury's job is to decide what to do with that truth.
  • 00:15:30.285 --> 00:15:35.657
  • The judge's job is to decide the law, but my job as a
  • 00:15:35.657 --> 00:15:37.926
  • Lawyer is not to tell half of the truth, it's to tell the
  • 00:15:37.926 --> 00:15:40.229
  • Whole truth.
  • 00:15:40.229 --> 00:15:42.531
  • And let the jury hear the whole truth and make an
  • 00:15:42.531 --> 00:15:44.166
  • Assessment.
  • 00:15:44.166 --> 00:15:46.502
  • In god is a god of justice that is one of his traits, you
  • 00:15:46.502 --> 00:15:50.172
  • Go to the westminster shorter catechism and that's one of
  • 00:15:50.172 --> 00:15:55.477
  • The things it says who is god?
  • 00:15:55.477 --> 00:15:56.678
  • What i think is the question is and one of the things
  • 00:15:56.678 --> 00:15:59.681
  • Is perfect in his justice.
  • 00:15:59.681 --> 00:16:01.350
  • And so that's my job.
  • 00:16:01.350 --> 00:16:04.586
  • - our justice system is based upon the 10 commandments in
  • 00:16:04.586 --> 00:16:10.993
  • Judeo-christian values, our founding fathers were carrying
  • 00:16:10.993 --> 00:16:16.498
  • That forward.
  • 00:16:16.498 --> 00:16:19.068
  • A lot of people i think if you poll lawyers and kind of their
  • 00:16:19.068 --> 00:16:30.746
  • Polling numbers are only slightly lower than tv
  • 00:16:30.746 --> 00:16:35.684
  • Evangelists.
  • 00:16:35.684 --> 00:16:36.718
  • - and union leaders joined us down there.
  • 00:16:36.718 --> 00:16:41.723
  • - and so at some point we all have this kind of stigmatism
  • 00:16:41.723 --> 00:16:45.928
  • Of painting with the same brush, so we are sitting here.
  • 00:16:45.928 --> 00:16:52.468
  • I'm trying to defend you.
  • 00:16:52.468 --> 00:16:54.636
  • Hopefully you're trying to defend me but at the same time
  • 00:16:54.636 --> 00:16:56.839
  • What is inside of these moments in a big trial like
  • 00:16:56.839 --> 00:17:01.410
  • That?
  • 00:17:01.410 --> 00:17:06.148
  • Something going on there, that you just know that god has
  • 00:17:06.148 --> 00:17:09.518
  • Called you to this, you've seen his work, you've seen
  • 00:17:09.518 --> 00:17:11.453
  • Something beyond yourself, happen inside of a world that
  • 00:17:11.453 --> 00:17:17.159
  • Very few of us understand.
  • 00:17:17.159 --> 00:17:22.264
  • - i was trying a case dealing with asbestos and baby powder
  • 00:17:22.264 --> 00:17:26.435
  • And the other side put on a witness that was a doctor, a
  • 00:17:26.435 --> 00:17:34.943
  • Medical doctor that worked within the medical company,
  • 00:17:34.943 --> 00:17:38.147
  • And they testified there's nothing dangerous with baby
  • 00:17:38.147 --> 00:17:42.151
  • Powder.
  • 00:17:42.151 --> 00:17:44.319
  • She said i've used it, my mother used it her entire
  • 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.388
  • Life.
  • 00:17:46.388 --> 00:17:48.657
  • My mother, when you go to my mother's house you will find
  • 00:17:48.657 --> 00:17:53.028
  • Bottles of this baby powder everywhere.
  • 00:17:53.028 --> 00:17:57.132
  • And the key to the case was the asbestos had caused
  • 00:17:57.132 --> 00:18:00.736
  • Ovarian cancer in my 22 women.
  • 00:18:00.736 --> 00:18:04.039
  • The doctor got on the stand and actually testified.
  • 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:07.276
  • Do you think for a moment if i believe our baby powder caused
  • 00:18:07.276 --> 00:18:11.480
  • Ovarian cancer that i would've let my mother use it?
  • 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.184
  • And then they say pass the witness and i've got to
  • 00:18:15.184 --> 00:18:20.722
  • Cross-examine the witness.
  • 00:18:20.722 --> 00:18:23.158
  • And i just thought about it and something did not feel
  • 00:18:23.158 --> 00:18:26.628
  • Right.
  • 00:18:26.628 --> 00:18:30.899
  • And i just knew i had to confront this very compelling
  • 00:18:30.899 --> 00:18:33.602
  • Testimony: would a doctor let her mother use something if it
  • 00:18:33.602 --> 00:18:37.773
  • Caused ovarian cancer?
  • 00:18:37.773 --> 00:18:39.274
  • So i thought, well maybe i can argue that ovarian cancer may
  • 00:18:39.274 --> 00:18:46.381
  • Come about later.
  • 00:18:46.381 --> 00:18:49.151
  • It takes time, i didn't know what to do, so i said you know
  • 00:18:49.151 --> 00:18:51.453
  • Dr. so-and-so, your mother yes, baby powder all the time,
  • 00:18:51.453 --> 00:18:57.626
  • Well i hope she's doing okay.
  • 00:18:57.626 --> 00:19:00.429
  • The woman looked at me and looked at the jury and said
  • 00:19:00.429 --> 00:19:05.033
  • Well actually my mom passed away a couple years ago.
  • 00:19:05.033 --> 00:19:06.602
  • And i said i'm so sorry, and i did this nudge because i had
  • 00:19:06.602 --> 00:19:12.641
  • No knowledge.
  • 00:19:12.641 --> 00:19:14.009
  • Had this nudge and i said, can i be nosy and ask what did your
  • 00:19:14.009 --> 00:19:16.912
  • Mom die of?
  • 00:19:16.912 --> 00:19:18.480
  • The answer?
  • 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:19.248
  • Ovarian cancer.
  • 00:19:19.248 --> 00:19:20.916
  • And the jury's just like oh!
  • 00:19:20.916 --> 00:19:23.719
  • Judge, can we take a break?
  • 00:19:23.719 --> 00:19:26.121
  • We need to call to get the baby powder out of the house.
  • 00:19:26.121 --> 00:19:28.023
  • It was a crazy moment.
  • 00:19:28.023 --> 00:19:31.026
  • - have they changed that?
  • 00:19:31.026 --> 00:19:33.528
  • - yes they have now pulled.
  • 00:19:33.528 --> 00:19:34.496
  • - i have some of that home.
  • 00:19:34.496 --> 00:19:37.399
  • - it was the talcum powder that was being used and they
  • 00:19:37.399 --> 00:19:40.202
  • Could have used cornstarch all along.
  • 00:19:40.202 --> 00:19:42.004
  • It would smell the same and work the same but it cost them
  • 00:19:42.004 --> 00:19:45.774
  • A couple cents more.
  • 00:19:45.774 --> 00:19:47.476
  • So now they pulled it worldwide and they don't sell
  • 00:19:47.476 --> 00:19:50.779
  • It anymore.
  • 00:19:50.779 --> 00:19:52.881
  • And that is one of the things that we've done that i think
  • 00:19:52.881 --> 00:19:54.283
  • Is going to ultimately save more lives than a lot of the
  • 00:19:54.283 --> 00:19:55.984
  • Things i've done.
  • 00:19:55.984 --> 00:19:57.519
  • - that's awesome.
  • 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:00.455
  • - in a courtroom in st. louis missouri in 2018 a battle was
  • 00:20:00.455 --> 00:20:04.092
  • Fought that would change everything.
  • 00:20:04.092 --> 00:20:06.495
  • Attorney mark lanier took on a giant on behalf of 22 women
  • 00:20:06.495 --> 00:20:08.797
  • Who claimed that the company's talcum powder caused their
  • 00:20:08.797 --> 00:20:14.469
  • Ovarian cancer for decades baby powder was marketed as
  • 00:20:14.469 --> 00:20:18.840
  • Safe but internal company documents told a different
  • 00:20:18.840 --> 00:20:22.110
  • Story.
  • 00:20:22.110 --> 00:20:23.445
  • Ones the public was never meant to see.
  • 00:20:23.445 --> 00:20:25.147
  • Lanier revealed on the journey that they knew their top
  • 00:20:25.147 --> 00:20:29.184
  • Products were sometimes contaminated with asbestos and
  • 00:20:29.184 --> 00:20:31.553
  • Never warned consumers.
  • 00:20:31.553 --> 00:20:34.489
  • The result one of the largest product liability
  • 00:20:34.489 --> 00:20:37.893
  • Verdicts in us history.
  • 00:20:37.893 --> 00:20:40.228
  • $4.7 billion.
  • 00:20:40.228 --> 00:20:42.097
  • This case was not just about compensation, it was about
  • 00:20:42.097 --> 00:20:45.267
  • Justice and corporate accountability.
  • 00:20:45.267 --> 00:20:47.269
  • The verdict sent a shock wave through the pharmaceutical
  • 00:20:47.269 --> 00:20:49.838
  • Industry and gave voice to thousands who had been
  • 00:20:49.838 --> 00:20:54.476
  • Ignored.
  • 00:20:54.476 --> 00:20:55.610
  • A courtroom victory that became the largest product
  • 00:20:55.610 --> 00:20:56.678
  • Liability verdict in us history.
  • 00:20:56.678 --> 00:20:59.815
  • - you are teaching right now you are in romans four, so
  • 00:20:59.815 --> 00:21:08.323
  • Give us this kind of overview of the book of romans in
  • 00:21:08.323 --> 00:21:16.732
  • Essence and specifically start at romans four for us and i
  • 00:21:16.732 --> 00:21:21.269
  • Will have some follow-up questions.
  • 00:21:21.269 --> 00:21:24.573
  • - all right so it's a quick overview, paul writes from
  • 00:21:24.573 --> 00:21:29.778
  • Corinth and he writes to the church of rome he had not been
  • 00:21:29.778 --> 00:21:32.280
  • There yet but the church at rome had undergone some pretty
  • 00:21:32.280 --> 00:21:34.750
  • Big changes if you read the acts chapter one and two you see
  • 00:21:34.750 --> 00:21:42.257
  • That there were jews from rome who were visiting pentecost.
  • 00:21:42.257 --> 00:21:45.460
  • And they infectiously receive jesus and they go back with
  • 00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:50.298
  • The spirit in jesus to rome and that is by definition the
  • 00:21:50.298 --> 00:21:54.503
  • Start of the church in rome.
  • 00:21:54.503 --> 00:21:56.171
  • And so the jewish church in rome grows and grows, and
  • 00:21:56.171 --> 00:21:59.975
  • Gentiles come into the church and then in the 48 era the
  • 00:21:59.975 --> 00:22:06.715
  • Emperor gets real upset because the jews are fighting
  • 00:22:06.715 --> 00:22:10.652
  • Over jesus in rome so he kics out all the jews, priscilla
  • 00:22:10.652 --> 00:22:14.423
  • And aquila they leave and paul meets them in corinth.
  • 00:22:14.423 --> 00:22:17.626
  • And all of a sudden this church that was jewish were in
  • 00:22:17.626 --> 00:22:20.896
  • Charge of the treasury, the church budget, the preaching,
  • 00:22:20.896 --> 00:22:26.301
  • The teaching, setting up the lord's supper all of a sudden
  • 00:22:26.301 --> 00:22:30.272
  • They're gone.
  • 00:22:30.272 --> 00:22:31.306
  • And you have a totally gentile church left.
  • 00:22:31.306 --> 00:22:32.574
  • Until the emperor ties, nero lets the jews come back in.
  • 00:22:32.574 --> 00:22:38.814
  • And so the jews came back in, and all of a sudden the jews
  • 00:22:38.814 --> 00:22:43.318
  • Said you did good while i was gone.
  • 00:22:43.318 --> 00:22:46.721
  • Give me back my office give me back my job.
  • 00:22:46.721 --> 00:22:50.158
  • I'll take back over the budget i'll take back over at the
  • 00:22:50.158 --> 00:22:51.660
  • Gentiles are kinda like we were doing pretty good while
  • 00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:54.496
  • You were gone.
  • 00:22:54.496 --> 00:22:57.265
  • And so into that situation paul writes romans.
  • 00:22:57.265 --> 00:22:59.734
  • What he says is listen, everybody jew or gentile
  • 00:22:59.734 --> 00:23:03.004
  • Everybody is saved by the cross of christ.
  • 00:23:03.004 --> 00:23:07.609
  • He says without it, a lawyer would tell you in the
  • 00:23:07.609 --> 00:23:11.780
  • Courtroom of god you are going to hell.
  • 00:23:11.780 --> 00:23:13.982
  • Because god's principles of judgment are real clear and he
  • 00:23:13.982 --> 00:23:18.286
  • Was a just judge he doesn't run a kangaroo court, but in
  • 00:23:18.286 --> 00:23:21.590
  • This is that hinge verse in romans 3:21 paul says but,
  • 00:23:21.590 --> 00:23:25.293
  • There's a righteousness [indiscernible] means not guilty
  • 00:23:25.293 --> 00:23:30.298
  • Among other things but there is a not guilty for those who
  • 00:23:30.298 --> 00:23:36.805
  • Have their faith in christ.
  • 00:23:36.805 --> 00:23:39.341
  • And so god can be fully just but expose his full love and
  • 00:23:39.341 --> 00:23:46.681
  • Mercy by taking the penalty himself.
  • 00:23:46.681 --> 00:23:48.817
  • And then as you get to romans four, paul begins to say let
  • 00:23:48.817 --> 00:23:54.723
  • Me give you an example of how faith has always been god's
  • 00:23:54.723 --> 00:23:56.658
  • Measuring rod.
  • 00:23:56.658 --> 00:23:58.660
  • And he starts at abraham.
  • 00:23:58.660 --> 00:24:01.997
  • - are you a better lawyer preacher?
  • 00:24:01.997 --> 00:24:06.001
  • - by the grace of god i just try my hardest at both.
  • 00:24:06.001 --> 00:24:08.336
  • And don't make that assessment.
  • 00:24:08.336 --> 00:24:10.972
  • - i do have all my questions [indiscernible].
  • 00:24:10.972 --> 00:24:14.609
  • - oh we have gone round around on some of these things.
  • 00:24:14.609 --> 00:24:20.782
  • Round and round and round but i love he's one of my favorite
  • 00:24:20.782 --> 00:24:25.754
  • Thinkers.
  • 00:24:25.754 --> 00:24:27.989
  • He's a brilliant man.
  • 00:24:27.989 --> 00:24:29.190
  • And he's eloquent at the same time.
  • 00:24:29.190 --> 00:24:31.159
  • And those are rare to find in tandem.
  • 00:24:31.159 --> 00:24:33.428
  • - let's move forward to romans eight, you have taught romans
  • 00:24:33.428 --> 00:24:38.967
  • Before, so romans 8:28, give me your lawyer overview
  • 00:24:38.967 --> 00:24:44.673
  • Of where paul's who was he speaking to do your opening
  • 00:24:44.673 --> 00:24:52.747
  • Statement versions of romans eight, specifically as he says
  • 00:24:52.747 --> 00:24:57.586
  • Nothing can separate you from the love of god, who and what
  • 00:24:57.586 --> 00:25:02.824
  • Is he addressing at the time to make such an emphasis on
  • 00:25:02.824 --> 00:25:05.694
  • What roman eight is.
  • 00:25:05.694 --> 00:25:09.598
  • - well if you start with romans eight itself which of course
  • 00:25:09.598 --> 00:25:15.737
  • The chapters were added later, but they were added in
  • 00:25:15.737 --> 00:25:19.941
  • Intelligently, you start with the idea that he's talking
  • 00:25:19.941 --> 00:25:22.377
  • About how the law of the spirit of life in christ has
  • 00:25:22.377 --> 00:25:26.214
  • Set us free from the law of sin and death.
  • 00:25:26.214 --> 00:25:29.150
  • So he is going into that in a way that it's very apparent
  • 00:25:29.150 --> 00:25:32.954
  • He's talking to the church.
  • 00:25:32.954 --> 00:25:36.658
  • He's about to launch.
  • 00:25:36.658 --> 00:25:38.226
  • He's working his way to romans 9, 10, 11 which are the three
  • 00:25:38.226 --> 00:25:42.230
  • Most difficult chapters in the bible for anyone to agree on
  • 00:25:42.230 --> 00:25:46.668
  • And they deal with what's the story with israel?
  • 00:25:46.668 --> 00:25:51.906
  • Because on a large level what history seems to portray is what
  • 00:25:51.906 --> 00:25:57.746
  • Happened on a small level in rome the church started out
  • 00:25:57.746 --> 00:26:00.882
  • Jewish the gentiles came in, the jews seem to have
  • 00:26:00.882 --> 00:26:07.389
  • Absconded, the gentile seem to have run it but are the jews
  • 00:26:07.389 --> 00:26:10.158
  • Coming back in?
  • 00:26:10.158 --> 00:26:11.359
  • And he's dealing with what happened in rome and
  • 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.863
  • Putting on a cosmic scale in history.
  • 00:26:14.863 --> 00:26:18.233
  • So you are in these transitional verses in there,
  • 00:26:18.233 --> 00:26:20.502
  • And i think that paul is making it real clear, that
  • 00:26:20.502 --> 00:26:26.641
  • Nothing can separate anybody who belongs to god that god
  • 00:26:26.641 --> 00:26:31.913
  • Has for them.
  • 00:26:31.913 --> 00:26:35.850
  • So that's the key, in greek it's called the genitive but
  • 00:26:35.850 --> 00:26:40.855
  • Is the idea that it's the love of god it does not mean our
  • 00:26:40.855 --> 00:26:44.459
  • Love we have for god or does it mean god's love he has for
  • 00:26:44.459 --> 00:26:50.432
  • Us?
  • 00:26:50.432 --> 00:26:51.700
  • The greek can be read either way so translators generally
  • 00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:54.903
  • Will just put why don't you make your choice, but there's
  • 00:26:54.903 --> 00:26:58.973
  • Not really much doubt because it's very paul language and is
  • 00:26:58.973 --> 00:27:02.744
  • Talking about god's love for us but i think anyone watching
  • 00:27:02.744 --> 00:27:08.349
  • The show can rest assured that there is nothing in this world
  • 00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:13.421
  • That could ever separate them from god's love for them, god
  • 00:27:13.421 --> 00:27:18.226
  • Loves you.
  • 00:27:18.226 --> 00:27:22.731
  • - you are in rome, you are in me age of time or the time that
  • 00:27:22.731 --> 00:27:33.108
  • The aquila and priscilla are kicked out and you are in there,
  • 00:27:33.108 --> 00:27:36.311
  • There's some biblical account of where some of them go in
  • 00:27:36.311 --> 00:27:42.117
  • Fact that's when paul hooks up with aquila and priscilla in
  • 00:27:42.117 --> 00:27:46.254
  • Corinth and they go to ephesus ultimately.
  • 00:27:46.254 --> 00:27:49.524
  • So there's some biblical account but in general, how
  • 00:27:49.524 --> 00:27:53.094
  • Long did that period last?
  • 00:27:53.094 --> 00:27:55.997
  • What time paul ultimately has to write an entire book
  • 00:27:55.997 --> 00:28:01.770
  • Kinda dealing with this is that your account?
  • 00:28:01.770 --> 00:28:05.774
  • - yes i think it lasted 4-6 years we are not sure, it's
  • 00:28:05.774 --> 00:28:09.344
  • Interesting because we have it not only from biblical
  • 00:28:09.344 --> 00:28:12.447
  • Passages where it explained, in acts why aquila and priscilla
  • 00:28:12.447 --> 00:28:17.452
  • Were in corinth because [indiscernible] had expelled the
  • 00:28:17.452 --> 00:28:20.655
  • Jews we also have that from secular accounts where they
  • 00:28:20.655 --> 00:28:25.527
  • Say the jews were kicked out because of the disturbances
  • 00:28:25.527 --> 00:28:27.095
  • Over christus, which is the latin spelling for christ, not
  • 00:28:27.095 --> 00:28:32.233
  • Perfect spelling but it's clear to most scholars that
  • 00:28:32.233 --> 00:28:37.705
  • They're talking about christ so that lasted for 4 to 6
  • 00:28:37.705 --> 00:28:40.341
  • Years something in that time range, before the jews were
  • 00:28:40.341 --> 00:28:44.612
  • Allowed back in after the death of [indiscernible] by the
  • 00:28:44.612 --> 00:28:48.283
  • Time paul is writing romans aquila and priscilla are back in
  • 00:28:48.283 --> 00:28:51.119
  • Rome so we know he's writing after they came back and it all
  • 00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:54.289
  • Fits together like lego blocks, just perfect.
  • 00:28:54.289 --> 00:28:58.593
  • - lego blocks.
  • 00:28:58.593 --> 00:29:01.496
  • That is a lot of fun.
  • 00:29:01.496 --> 00:29:03.731
  • We have one or two of them.
  • 00:29:03.731 --> 00:29:08.636
  • So take us back into the courtroom and a trial that
  • 00:29:08.636 --> 00:29:20.048
  • Used to be a jury of your peers, so i know dave barden,
  • 00:29:20.048 --> 00:29:28.056
  • So dave you know we sat around and talked about this one
  • 00:29:28.056 --> 00:29:37.131
  • Time, the jury used to have to know the defendant.
  • 00:29:37.131 --> 00:29:39.767
  • If you go way back.
  • 00:29:39.767 --> 00:29:41.069
  • It makes sense if you think about it that if you are on a
  • 00:29:41.069 --> 00:29:46.774
  • Jury and you know the defendant and they accuse the
  • 00:29:46.774 --> 00:29:51.012
  • Defendant of something you have a better sense of well
  • 00:29:51.012 --> 00:29:55.683
  • Yeah i do know uncle joe and on occasion he does do that
  • 00:29:55.683 --> 00:30:00.388
  • Well not a chance that's not in his nature.
  • 00:30:00.388 --> 00:30:04.125
  • When did that get turned around and what are your thoughts on
  • 00:30:04.125 --> 00:30:10.698
  • That?
  • 00:30:10.698 --> 00:30:13.368
  • - i think that transition happened very early in
  • 00:30:13.368 --> 00:30:16.638
  • American jurors' prudence because one of the problems
  • 00:30:16.638 --> 00:30:20.675
  • You have is can i be fair if i know uncle joe?
  • 00:30:20.675 --> 00:30:31.619
  • And so the fairness factor really waited, and it works
  • 00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:36.357
  • Both ways.
  • 00:30:36.357 --> 00:30:38.192
  • So i've had cases where i've tried where the jurors have
  • 00:30:38.192 --> 00:30:40.795
  • Known one of the parties.
  • 00:30:40.795 --> 00:30:42.096
  • I would like to keep that juror because the juror knows
  • 00:30:42.096 --> 00:30:46.367
  • The parties.
  • 00:30:46.367 --> 00:30:47.702
  • The other lawyer does not want to keep the juror because the
  • 00:30:47.702 --> 00:30:50.438
  • Journals the parties.
  • 00:30:50.438 --> 00:30:53.107
  • I've had the opposite and so what we tried to do in america
  • 00:30:53.107 --> 00:30:56.244
  • Is try to find justice where the jury is not going to be
  • 00:30:56.244 --> 00:30:57.545
  • Swayed by evidence outside of court, but make the decision
  • 00:30:57.545 --> 00:31:03.584
  • Simply on the evidence inside of court.
  • 00:31:03.584 --> 00:31:06.988
  • David is right about how early juries were but of course
  • 00:31:06.988 --> 00:31:09.624
  • Early juries could not have women no women were allowed to
  • 00:31:09.624 --> 00:31:13.795
  • Serve on a jury you had to be a property holder you could
  • 00:31:13.795 --> 00:31:17.165
  • Not be an ethnic minority.
  • 00:31:17.165 --> 00:31:22.704
  • You could not be there were very rigid people who were
  • 00:31:22.704 --> 00:31:27.775
  • Allowed to be jurors and that changed very early.
  • 00:31:27.775 --> 00:31:29.978
  • If you think al capone is going to be tried, do you really
  • 00:31:29.978 --> 00:31:35.116
  • Want a jury of people who know al capone because if so, al
  • 00:31:35.116 --> 00:31:38.386
  • Capone knows them.
  • 00:31:38.386 --> 00:31:40.388
  • And he knows their family and he knows where they live.
  • 00:31:40.388 --> 00:31:44.225
  • Do you want al capone and you're gonna sit there and go
  • 00:31:44.225 --> 00:31:48.429
  • Yeah he's guilty he's a mobster.
  • 00:31:48.429 --> 00:31:49.964
  • That's a good way to get your house blown up.
  • 00:31:49.964 --> 00:31:52.433
  • - reform in general, if you got handed the kingdom wand and
  • 00:31:52.433 --> 00:32:00.274
  • You got to reform your field that you do, what
  • 00:32:00.274 --> 00:32:07.415
  • Is the biggest problem today inside of the jurisprudence
  • 00:32:07.415 --> 00:32:10.918
  • And how could you fix it?
  • 00:32:10.918 --> 00:32:12.720
  • - let me first say i think the american system is the best
  • 00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.958
  • System in the world.
  • 00:32:16.958 --> 00:32:18.226
  • And not just today, i think the american judicial system
  • 00:32:18.226 --> 00:32:21.996
  • Is the best that humanity has ever come up with to try and
  • 00:32:21.996 --> 00:32:24.999
  • Deal with these issues.
  • 00:32:24.999 --> 00:32:29.103
  • And i jokingly call it a bloodsport is not anymore but
  • 00:32:29.103 --> 00:32:33.374
  • In medieval times it was.
  • 00:32:33.374 --> 00:32:35.376
  • It was a question of hiring one champion and hire another
  • 00:32:35.376 --> 00:32:39.514
  • They go at each other and whoever kills the other is the
  • 00:32:39.514 --> 00:32:42.817
  • Victor.
  • 00:32:42.817 --> 00:32:44.085
  • That's not the way lawyers are now, we've come to a great
  • 00:32:44.085 --> 00:32:46.521
  • Place.
  • 00:32:46.521 --> 00:32:48.189
  • Does that mean it is perfect to know?
  • 00:32:48.189 --> 00:32:52.160
  • There's a constant fight in legal courtrooms that are
  • 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:54.328
  • Built around special interests.
  • 00:32:54.328 --> 00:32:56.697
  • You've got insurance companies who care dearly about their
  • 00:32:56.697 --> 00:33:03.738
  • Insurance dollars and ultimately in the car wreck
  • 00:33:03.738 --> 00:33:08.376
  • It's their money at stake.
  • 00:33:08.376 --> 00:33:10.011
  • You got corporate america and that cares dearly about their
  • 00:33:10.011 --> 00:33:13.381
  • Corporate stockholders so it's their money at stake.
  • 00:33:13.381 --> 00:33:17.452
  • I don't fault any of those people those are very real
  • 00:33:17.452 --> 00:33:20.788
  • Interest in their job and responsibility but then you got
  • 00:33:20.788 --> 00:33:24.125
  • Other people like me who will represent the person with
  • 00:33:24.125 --> 00:33:26.661
  • Ovarian cancer or the person who's been [indiscernible] by
  • 00:33:26.661 --> 00:33:30.098
  • The drunk driver who blew through the stop sign and
  • 00:33:30.098 --> 00:33:34.268
  • We've got those interests at stake.
  • 00:33:34.268 --> 00:33:39.173
  • And there's a constant struggle and one of the most
  • 00:33:39.173 --> 00:33:41.375
  • Difficult parts is so many judges in our states get
  • 00:33:41.375 --> 00:33:46.047
  • Elected when you have judicial elections now all of a sudden
  • 00:33:46.047 --> 00:33:50.585
  • You have to raise money.
  • 00:33:50.585 --> 00:33:53.554
  • And i think that that's the thing i would waive my wand and
  • 00:33:53.554 --> 00:33:56.858
  • Change, there's better ways to do it.
  • 00:33:56.858 --> 00:33:58.326
  • Honestly.
  • 00:33:58.326 --> 00:34:02.330
  • People go out and vote for judges.
  • 00:34:02.330 --> 00:34:03.431
  • Do they really know who those judges are?
  • 00:34:03.431 --> 00:34:04.799
  • They don't have a clue and those judges are called
  • 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.667
  • Lawyers.
  • 00:34:06.667 --> 00:34:08.569
  • Hey, can you help me with my reelection?
  • 00:34:08.569 --> 00:34:10.638
  • And that's difficult on the judge to make the calls
  • 00:34:10.638 --> 00:34:13.307
  • Difficult on the lawyer to receive the call you don't
  • 00:34:13.307 --> 00:34:16.677
  • Want to say you know, so that would be my change.
  • 00:34:16.677 --> 00:34:20.381
  • - what about the judges who are set, who are appointed?
  • 00:34:20.381 --> 00:34:23.518
  • - for life, so federal judges for example considered article 3
  • 00:34:23.518 --> 00:34:29.624
  • Judges under the constitution.
  • 00:34:29.624 --> 00:34:31.659
  • They have a lifetime appointment and the theory
  • 00:34:31.659 --> 00:34:33.094
  • Behind that is they are not beholding to anybody they can
  • 00:34:33.094 --> 00:34:36.130
  • Call balls and strikes with no concern and that's the reason
  • 00:34:36.130 --> 00:34:40.101
  • Our founding fathers set that up and it's found in the
  • 00:34:40.101 --> 00:34:43.471
  • Constitution.
  • 00:34:43.471 --> 00:34:46.374
  • They are there for life and they are not to be approved
  • 00:34:46.374 --> 00:34:51.045
  • For that by the senate.
  • 00:34:51.045 --> 00:34:52.747
  • Unless the majority of the senate says we approve.
  • 00:34:52.747 --> 00:34:57.285
  • And that's why you have these knockdown drag out hearings of
  • 00:34:57.285 --> 00:35:02.056
  • Whether someone is suitable to be on the supreme court
  • 00:35:02.056 --> 00:35:05.026
  • Suitable to be on a trial court.
  • 00:35:05.026 --> 00:35:06.627
  • The law profession that you primarily do, you do that so
  • 00:35:06.627 --> 00:35:17.038
  • That you can do the things that we see here today.
  • 00:35:17.038 --> 00:35:20.641
  • So you do the bob goff is a good friend
  • 00:35:20.641 --> 00:35:24.045
  • And he says i do trials and lawyering so that i can go
  • 00:35:24.045 --> 00:35:29.984
  • Build homes and you know in uganda and take care of
  • 00:35:29.984 --> 00:35:34.055
  • Widows and orphans so bob is a good friend he writes books
  • 00:35:34.055 --> 00:35:40.361
  • And this is reminding me a little bit of an interview
  • 00:35:40.361 --> 00:35:44.732
  • With bob goff but what we see around you and what you do,
  • 00:35:44.732 --> 00:35:49.303
  • Bob goes to places and flies bush planes and in the
  • 00:35:49.303 --> 00:35:56.444
  • Backcountry and does all sorts of escapades and things, you
  • 00:35:56.444 --> 00:36:00.648
  • Seem to care about the next generation and the
  • 00:36:00.648 --> 00:36:06.420
  • Understanding of preserving truth.
  • 00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:09.490
  • We are seeing a lot of things today the b rolr that we've
  • 00:36:09.490 --> 00:36:13.194
  • Captured and even b roll that we captured in oxford england
  • 00:36:13.194 --> 00:36:18.065
  • When we were at another property you had there, where
  • 00:36:18.065 --> 00:36:22.136
  • Did that whole kind of side of how you would create a
  • 00:36:22.136 --> 00:36:27.675
  • Successful business, and then spend some of that success
  • 00:36:27.675 --> 00:36:35.650
  • Into what we've seen, where did it all come from?
  • 00:36:35.650 --> 00:36:38.953
  • - i think it comes from just my basic 101, understanding of
  • 00:36:38.953 --> 00:36:44.892
  • Responsibility, and the lord.
  • 00:36:44.892 --> 00:36:48.996
  • And here's what i mean.
  • 00:36:48.996 --> 00:36:50.598
  • I don't own anything except my heart.
  • 00:36:50.598 --> 00:36:53.901
  • My heart, my mind i own and i can decide to give that to the
  • 00:36:53.901 --> 00:37:00.641
  • Lord or not, everything else is his, and he's entrusted to
  • 00:37:00.641 --> 00:37:03.010
  • Me.
  • 00:37:03.010 --> 00:37:05.313
  • So on a very simple level if he handed me a dollar, if
  • 00:37:05.313 --> 00:37:08.816
  • Jesus were right here physically present and handed
  • 00:37:08.816 --> 00:37:11.252
  • Me a physical dollar and said this is my dollar i want you
  • 00:37:11.252 --> 00:37:18.959
  • To go use this wisely.
  • 00:37:18.959 --> 00:37:21.162
  • What would i do with the dollar?
  • 00:37:21.162 --> 00:37:23.731
  • That's no different than just adding some zeros to the
  • 00:37:23.731 --> 00:37:27.968
  • Dollar.
  • 00:37:27.968 --> 00:37:30.538
  • $10 - $100, thousand dollars add as many zeros as you want,
  • 00:37:30.538 --> 00:37:33.507
  • What we have is what belongs to god.
  • 00:37:33.507 --> 00:37:37.311
  • He owns the cattle on all the hills, not the ranchers.
  • 00:37:37.311 --> 00:37:42.950
  • He has entrusted us and told us to be good stewards.
  • 00:37:42.950 --> 00:37:46.253
  • So our struggle and our joy is to try to figure out how to
  • 00:37:46.253 --> 00:37:52.293
  • Steward his resources for the kingdom.
  • 00:37:52.293 --> 00:37:58.199
  • And that's just 101.
  • 00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:01.502
  • ♪ (music playing)
  • 00:38:01.502 --> 00:38:05.840
  • - so we decided to build a learning center and that's
  • 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.541
  • What i'm excited to show you next.
  • 00:38:07.541 --> 00:38:09.977
  • ♪ (music playing)
  • 00:38:09.977 --> 00:38:18.085
  • This is brand-new.
  • 00:38:18.085 --> 00:38:21.689
  • We built this during covid.
  • 00:38:21.689 --> 00:38:23.257
  • - oh my goodness.
  • 00:38:23.257 --> 00:38:26.060
  • ♪ (music playing)
  • 00:38:26.060 --> 00:38:28.295
  • - hello.
  • 00:38:28.295 --> 00:38:29.930
  • ♪ (music playing)
  • 00:38:29.930 --> 00:38:34.034
  • - wow.
  • 00:38:34.034 --> 00:38:34.568
  • This is amazing.
  • 00:38:34.568 --> 00:38:35.870
  • - we have classrooms that go back in the back, you can see
  • 00:38:35.870 --> 00:38:39.440
  • We've got a cloister area here.
  • 00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:42.810
  • It wraps around.
  • 00:38:42.810 --> 00:38:45.045
  • - oh my goodness.
  • 00:38:45.045 --> 00:38:46.714
  • - and we think you were in europe somewhere.
  • 00:38:46.714 --> 00:38:51.452
  • - yes.
  • 00:38:51.452 --> 00:38:52.753
  • It feels very european.
  • 00:38:52.753 --> 00:38:54.388
  • - this gives you a sample of what some of the smaller rooms
  • 00:38:54.388 --> 00:38:58.959
  • Are.
  • 00:38:58.959 --> 00:38:59.860
  • And we've got classrooms of all sizes.
  • 00:38:59.860 --> 00:39:03.264
  • - oh my goodness.
  • 00:39:03.264 --> 00:39:06.100
  • - this opens up to the library so people of the library can
  • 00:39:06.100 --> 00:39:08.803
  • Come in here, eat lunch, talk and have a conversation.
  • 00:39:08.803 --> 00:39:11.505
  • Get the coffee whatever they might do.
  • 00:39:11.505 --> 00:39:15.876
  • - what an amazing you can get a masters degree here?
  • 00:39:15.876 --> 00:39:19.780
  • - we teach for the community first year biblical greek
  • 00:39:19.780 --> 00:39:24.718
  • Classes in second year biblical greek classes and 75 students.
  • 00:39:24.718 --> 00:39:27.888
  • And we will use these different classrooms.
  • 00:39:27.888 --> 00:39:31.459
  • - isn't that amazing?
  • 00:39:31.459 --> 00:39:33.360
  • - so anyways also you have one more room on the way.
  • 00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.863
  • Come check this out.
  • 00:39:35.863 --> 00:39:38.065
  • See what you think.
  • 00:39:38.065 --> 00:39:40.334
  • - oh my gosh.
  • 00:39:40.334 --> 00:39:41.268
  • - what in the world mark?
  • 00:39:41.268 --> 00:39:43.103
  • What did you build?
  • 00:39:43.103 --> 00:39:46.607
  • Oh my god.
  • 00:39:46.607 --> 00:39:48.542
  • - it's a beast isn't it?
  • 00:39:48.542 --> 00:39:49.810
  • - can we have dinner here?
  • 00:39:49.810 --> 00:39:52.713
  • - you can put 350 in here for food.
  • 00:39:52.713 --> 00:39:55.249
  • - wow.
  • 00:39:55.249 --> 00:39:56.484
  • - that is amazing.
  • 00:39:56.484 --> 00:39:59.253
  • - yeah, that's crazy, isn't it?
  • 00:39:59.253 --> 00:40:02.223
  • - we are in the lanier learning senate that is
  • 00:40:02.223 --> 00:40:04.225
  • Remodeled after the dining hall at one of the colleges at
  • 00:40:04.225 --> 00:40:07.828
  • Oxford.
  • 00:40:07.828 --> 00:40:09.897
  • It happens to also be the dining hall where they filmed
  • 00:40:09.897 --> 00:40:14.401
  • Harry potter's dining scene so it became the harry potter
  • 00:40:14.401 --> 00:40:17.238
  • Dining hall where they cgied it to have candles elevated and
  • 00:40:17.238 --> 00:40:20.908
  • Everything.
  • 00:40:20.908 --> 00:40:23.811
  • - day in the life of this location is the vision is
  • 00:40:23.811 --> 00:40:27.481
  • What?
  • 00:40:27.481 --> 00:40:29.717
  • - anything that helps the kingdom of god.
  • 00:40:29.717 --> 00:40:31.719
  • So we have every major group you can think of.
  • 00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:36.857
  • From bible translating committees to college
  • 00:40:36.857 --> 00:40:41.996
  • Professors, all the different colleges come together for a big
  • 00:40:41.996 --> 00:40:50.738
  • Symposium.
  • 00:40:50.738 --> 00:40:51.906
  • This place is in use every week.
  • 00:40:51.906 --> 00:40:54.375
  • Every week.
  • 00:40:54.375 --> 00:40:55.643
  • - i love that.
  • 00:40:55.643 --> 00:40:58.512
  • - we have sat in these chairs on another occasion in the
  • 00:40:58.512 --> 00:41:03.450
  • Lanier theological library.
  • 00:41:03.450 --> 00:41:05.786
  • With n.t. wright, a great guy love him.
  • 00:41:05.786 --> 00:41:10.090
  • And n.t. wright has largely started opening laurie and my
  • 00:41:10.090 --> 00:41:21.402
  • Eyes to an understanding that sometimes we had a few things
  • 00:41:21.402 --> 00:41:27.308
  • Upside down whereas my dad from missouri would say bass
  • 00:41:27.308 --> 00:41:30.945
  • Backwards.
  • 00:41:30.945 --> 00:41:32.546
  • And you know even the way that n.t. wright starts talking about
  • 00:41:32.546 --> 00:41:39.787
  • The kingdom and the main thing, a lot of times it moves
  • 00:41:39.787 --> 00:41:45.726
  • Into the way you think about the future.
  • 00:41:45.726 --> 00:41:49.797
  • You know n.t. and where you are in the kind of eschatology
  • 00:41:49.797 --> 00:41:54.001
  • In regard to future events and these types of things do you
  • 00:41:54.001 --> 00:42:04.712
  • Argue with him and you side with him?
  • 00:42:04.712 --> 00:42:07.915
  • Not that i know the full story.
  • 00:42:07.915 --> 00:42:09.116
  • - we have minor points of disagreement, but by and large
  • 00:42:09.116 --> 00:42:13.754
  • Agree wholeheartedly on this.
  • 00:42:13.754 --> 00:42:16.090
  • I mean i think scripture is clear god created us to be in
  • 00:42:16.090 --> 00:42:21.929
  • Fellowship with him i think the garden of eden is a
  • 00:42:21.929 --> 00:42:26.266
  • Wonderful illustration of god walking in communicating and
  • 00:42:26.266 --> 00:42:29.536
  • Communing with humanity and i think the sin got in the way and
  • 00:42:29.536 --> 00:42:33.707
  • I think that god will destroy this heaven and earth that we
  • 00:42:33.707 --> 00:42:39.780
  • See by heaven i mean space, and i think he will create a
  • 00:42:39.780 --> 00:42:42.082
  • New heaven and earth and i think he will populate us with
  • 00:42:42.082 --> 00:42:44.351
  • Resurrection bodies and we will do our thing for him and
  • 00:42:44.351 --> 00:42:55.462
  • In perfect fellowship, minor points of disagreement and i
  • 00:42:55.462 --> 00:42:59.867
  • Can't speak for tom but where we had some dialogue is what
  • 00:42:59.867 --> 00:43:02.469
  • Happens to those who do not have eternal life.
  • 00:43:02.469 --> 00:43:07.808
  • What is --?
  • 00:43:07.808 --> 00:43:11.779
  • - i see a lot of books everywhere i look.
  • 00:43:11.779 --> 00:43:15.816
  • I see books and i will just go to a book that i'm thinking
  • 00:43:15.816 --> 00:43:19.753
  • About the late great planet earth.
  • 00:43:19.753 --> 00:43:21.188
  • Hal lindsey.
  • 00:43:21.188 --> 00:43:23.257
  • Number one selling book of the 70s decade and that represents
  • 00:43:23.257 --> 00:43:26.994
  • Dispensational theology.
  • 00:43:26.994 --> 00:43:30.364
  • Are you a counter narrative to dispensational theology?
  • 00:43:30.364 --> 00:43:34.601
  • So give us if you give our audience a, from one your
  • 00:43:34.601 --> 00:43:39.106
  • Ladies and gentlemen of the jury i'm going to tell you my
  • 00:43:39.106 --> 00:43:45.546
  • Side of the story, a little bit of a legal argument for
  • 00:43:45.546 --> 00:43:50.751
  • Where you take because we're kind of learning that at this
  • 00:43:50.751 --> 00:43:53.754
  • Point that there was a whole another way to look at
  • 00:43:53.754 --> 00:43:59.626
  • Scripture like the you know all of it discourse being in
  • 00:43:59.626 --> 00:44:04.398
  • The past.
  • 00:44:04.398 --> 00:44:06.867
  • See how lindsey's book a dispensational would say all
  • 00:44:06.867 --> 00:44:09.903
  • Of the things talked about by jesus in answering the
  • 00:44:09.903 --> 00:44:13.574
  • Questions from the disciples in the future.
  • 00:44:13.574 --> 00:44:16.310
  • That's the way i would've grown up.
  • 00:44:16.310 --> 00:44:17.878
  • So did the left behind books so there's a lot of narrative
  • 00:44:17.878 --> 00:44:22.549
  • To that so you are a counter narrative to that you are a
  • 00:44:22.549 --> 00:44:25.586
  • Lawyer, give me your kind of opening statement and convince
  • 00:44:25.586 --> 00:44:31.725
  • Me of that if you would.
  • 00:44:31.725 --> 00:44:34.394
  • - this is fresh on my mind because i just finished a 20
  • 00:44:34.394 --> 00:44:36.563
  • Week series i taught on revelation so i am fresh on
  • 00:44:36.563 --> 00:44:38.766
  • This, and i will put it within the framework of the book of
  • 00:44:38.766 --> 00:44:45.706
  • Revelation, the book of revelation was written
  • 00:44:45.706 --> 00:44:48.942
  • Prophetically to a hurting church and hurting people, and
  • 00:44:48.942 --> 00:44:55.616
  • This revelation this apocalyptic vision was one that
  • 00:44:55.616 --> 00:45:01.255
  • Ministered to them, it was not just written for us, in
  • 00:45:01.255 --> 00:45:04.024
  • 2020-- whenever ad, it was written to address something
  • 00:45:04.024 --> 00:45:15.803
  • Now the way it's written you can read it at any point in
  • 00:45:15.803 --> 00:45:17.437
  • Human history and say the lord's coming back these are
  • 00:45:17.437 --> 00:45:21.108
  • Bad days and this is time is now.
  • 00:45:21.108 --> 00:45:24.444
  • And they have.
  • 00:45:24.444 --> 00:45:26.079
  • And it's true the lord is coming back and the time is
  • 00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:32.519
  • Right but it's written that way because we are to always
  • 00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:37.825
  • Be watchful and jesus told his followers be watchful because
  • 00:45:37.825 --> 00:45:44.164
  • As lightning flashes from the east, so should be the
  • 00:45:44.164 --> 00:45:48.302
  • Coming of the son of man that's matthew 24 now when
  • 00:45:48.302 --> 00:45:52.573
  • Jesus says that, is jesus trying to say he comes
  • 00:45:52.573 --> 00:45:58.979
  • Physically from the east?
  • 00:45:58.979 --> 00:46:00.280
  • When we built our chapel we built it like the early churches
  • 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:02.883
  • Facing east so you see the lord come back, no.
  • 00:46:02.883 --> 00:46:06.520
  • In the geography of palestine at that time of judeo, the
  • 00:46:06.520 --> 00:46:11.658
  • Storms that came from the east came from the mountains and
  • 00:46:11.658 --> 00:46:16.129
  • Desert.
  • 00:46:16.129 --> 00:46:17.331
  • You do not know they are coming until they are on you.
  • 00:46:17.331 --> 00:46:18.966
  • If they come from the west they come across the
  • 00:46:18.966 --> 00:46:22.169
  • Mediterranean you can see them coming.
  • 00:46:22.169 --> 00:46:23.937
  • All jesus is saying is hey the way it comes as a surprise
  • 00:46:23.937 --> 00:46:27.507
  • That's the way the coming will be.
  • 00:46:27.507 --> 00:46:29.509
  • He was not worried about a flat earth or round earth where
  • 00:46:29.509 --> 00:46:33.680
  • There's always something more easterly than where we are.
  • 00:46:33.680 --> 00:46:37.217
  • It was not hey look to the east he's coming that
  • 00:46:37.217 --> 00:46:41.121
  • Direction but that's a sample of how we tend to read
  • 00:46:41.121 --> 00:46:44.124
  • Scripture with our history and our mindset where we are
  • 00:46:44.124 --> 00:46:47.761
  • Today, i call it narcissistic scriptural interpretation
  • 00:46:47.761 --> 00:46:51.565
  • Instead of trying to first understand in its context and
  • 00:46:51.565 --> 00:46:57.337
  • Apply it to us.
  • 00:46:57.337 --> 00:46:58.605
  • - is revelation largely in the past and if there are some
  • 00:46:58.605 --> 00:47:03.844
  • Future events what are they?
  • 00:47:03.844 --> 00:47:06.246
  • - so revelation is divided easily into seven segments in
  • 00:47:06.246 --> 00:47:10.183
  • All of the seven segments line up parallel to each
  • 00:47:10.183 --> 00:47:14.855
  • Other.
  • 00:47:14.855 --> 00:47:16.156
  • And they all start with the time of christ and all come to
  • 00:47:16.156 --> 00:47:20.127
  • The end of days.
  • 00:47:20.127 --> 00:47:21.261
  • In each segment read revelation the same way you
  • 00:47:21.261 --> 00:47:24.998
  • Would read daniel because daniel has multiple visions
  • 00:47:24.998 --> 00:47:28.769
  • That all tell about the babylonians the persians the
  • 00:47:28.769 --> 00:47:32.072
  • Greeks alexander the great and you've got another vision of
  • 00:47:32.072 --> 00:47:36.677
  • The same thing it's parallel with each other or think about
  • 00:47:36.677 --> 00:47:38.545
  • They were his dreams.
  • 00:47:38.545 --> 00:47:41.381
  • He has two dreams, he's got the dreams of cows and dreams
  • 00:47:41.381 --> 00:47:44.985
  • Of corn, and each one is built on seven.
  • 00:47:44.985 --> 00:47:49.256
  • But joseph doesn't say okay you had this dream first or
  • 00:47:49.256 --> 00:47:52.359
  • Those seven i can happen after that you have this dreams so
  • 00:47:52.359 --> 00:47:54.628
  • Those are going to happen he says they are the same dream.
  • 00:47:54.628 --> 00:48:01.768
  • The same way with revelation you can read these passages
  • 00:48:01.768 --> 00:48:03.136
  • And you can say that's why you get revelation 12 and 13 and 14
  • 00:48:03.136 --> 00:48:06.673
  • And all of a sudden it looks like he's talking about the
  • 00:48:06.673 --> 00:48:10.243
  • Birth of jesus again.
  • 00:48:10.243 --> 00:48:11.044
  • Well it is.
  • 00:48:11.044 --> 00:48:14.581
  • Because each of these seven sections are seven different
  • 00:48:14.581 --> 00:48:17.084
  • Visions in a sense that cover from beginning to end
  • 00:48:17.084 --> 00:48:20.053
  • And at the end of revelation or the end of the seventh
  • 00:48:20.053 --> 00:48:25.359
  • Section you have a new heaven and new earth come quickly
  • 00:48:25.359 --> 00:48:26.960
  • Lord jesus because every time period.
  • 00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:29.296
  • Whether it's bulls of wrath, whether it's judgment,
  • 00:48:29.296 --> 00:48:33.033
  • Whatever it is we are walking through right now we can be
  • 00:48:33.033 --> 00:48:37.938
  • Assured at the end of that line jesus comes again.
  • 00:48:37.938 --> 00:48:43.343
  • And that's reassuring for every generation that exists
  • 00:48:43.343 --> 00:48:47.180
  • Until he comes again.
  • 00:48:47.180 --> 00:48:48.915
  • - did you read about the late great planet earth?
  • 00:48:48.915 --> 00:48:52.519
  • - read all the left behind too.
  • 00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:55.022
  • - did you believe that when you read it?
  • 00:48:55.022 --> 00:48:58.658
  • - no.
  • 00:48:58.658 --> 00:48:59.926
  • - so back me up and so you are not an assembly of god guy
  • 00:48:59.926 --> 00:49:05.165
  • Come you are not a baptist guy?
  • 00:49:05.165 --> 00:49:07.401
  • - non-denomination.
  • 00:49:07.401 --> 00:49:08.635
  • - so you must've grown up in a very unique kind of time
  • 00:49:08.635 --> 00:49:12.439
  • Because when we were kids roughly the same age, i looked
  • 00:49:12.439 --> 00:49:18.278
  • It up.
  • 00:49:18.278 --> 00:49:23.083
  • You are like six months older than me.
  • 00:49:23.083 --> 00:49:25.786
  • - little brother matt.
  • 00:49:25.786 --> 00:49:26.520
  • Go ahead.
  • 00:49:26.520 --> 00:49:28.722
  • - you're going to help me with how to make my hair your
  • 00:49:28.722 --> 00:49:32.359
  • Color.
  • 00:49:32.359 --> 00:49:33.393
  • - there's no secret to it.
  • 00:49:33.393 --> 00:49:35.962
  • I'm sure tomorrow i'll wake up when it'll all falls out.
  • 00:49:35.962 --> 00:49:38.031
  • - if you could hook me up with a bottle of something.
  • 00:49:38.031 --> 00:49:41.168
  • - there's no bottle.
  • 00:49:41.168 --> 00:49:44.004
  • - okay, so.
  • 00:49:44.004 --> 00:49:44.671
  • - he's got hair envy.
  • 00:49:44.671 --> 00:49:45.505
  • - that's all right.
  • 00:49:45.505 --> 00:49:49.042
  • Look, he's in such good shape.
  • 00:49:49.042 --> 00:49:51.211
  • Do you realize i'm naturally going to be 500 pounds?
  • 00:49:51.211 --> 00:49:53.280
  • I mean you leave me to myself, i can gain weight by smelling
  • 00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:57.984
  • Food.
  • 00:49:57.984 --> 00:50:00.620
  • You have beautiful chocolate hair.
  • 00:50:00.620 --> 00:50:02.722
  • - it must be houston.
  • 00:50:02.722 --> 00:50:05.859
  • - hey joel, i have good hair.
  • 00:50:05.859 --> 00:50:08.028
  • - if you go way back, what branch did you come up with to
  • 00:50:08.028 --> 00:50:09.396
  • Understand?
  • 00:50:09.396 --> 00:50:11.098
  • - i grew up on a small branch called the church of christ.
  • 00:50:11.098 --> 00:50:14.634
  • It was a break from the presbyterian church in the
  • 00:50:14.634 --> 00:50:16.136
  • 1800s.
  • 00:50:16.136 --> 00:50:17.571
  • - max lacato.
  • 00:50:17.571 --> 00:50:21.074
  • - we grew up in much more of a traditional understanding but
  • 00:50:21.074 --> 00:50:25.479
  • There wasn't any official position so different people
  • 00:50:25.479 --> 00:50:33.053
  • Would have different views.
  • 00:50:33.053 --> 00:50:34.754
  • It's a nondenominational church.
  • 00:50:34.754 --> 00:50:39.159
  • There's no national governance, no national
  • 00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:40.360
  • Viewpoint; everybody can do whatever they believe or
  • 00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:43.964
  • Whatever they want.
  • 00:50:43.964 --> 00:50:45.499
  • So i was heavily influenced by books like william hendrickson
  • 00:50:45.499 --> 00:50:48.468
  • More than conquerors and that was a better book to read then
  • 00:50:48.468 --> 00:50:54.207
  • How lindsay's great leap planet made a lot of sense to
  • 00:50:54.207 --> 00:50:56.776
  • Me.
  • 00:50:56.776 --> 00:50:58.879
  • - because it gave you fuel and responsibility for his kingdom
  • 00:50:58.879 --> 00:51:02.182
  • Here on earth.
  • 00:51:02.182 --> 00:51:04.551
  • - amen.
  • 00:51:04.551 --> 00:51:06.219
  • - it feels like when you feel the weight of responsibility
  • 00:51:06.219 --> 00:51:09.289
  • Of making his enemies the footstool or making the
  • 00:51:09.289 --> 00:51:11.458
  • Enemies your footstool it feels like we feel like it's
  • 00:51:11.458 --> 00:51:14.027
  • Something that we are starting to you know feel like there
  • 00:51:14.027 --> 00:51:25.405
  • Was more to the story than i would've learned in the
  • 00:51:25.405 --> 00:51:29.276
  • Traditional assembly of the church there's more to the
  • 00:51:29.276 --> 00:51:32.779
  • Story and it feels like it's a victorious eschatology.
  • 00:51:32.779 --> 00:51:36.183
  • - it's a victorious eschatology that has already
  • 00:51:36.183 --> 00:51:41.621
  • Started.
  • 00:51:41.621 --> 00:51:43.957
  • Because we see what is coming and it affects how we live
  • 00:51:43.957 --> 00:51:47.861
  • Today.
  • 00:51:47.861 --> 00:51:49.329
  • - do me something it'll be kind of fun in closing.
  • 00:51:49.329 --> 00:51:53.633
  • First of all thank you all for b roll that we have captured
  • 00:51:53.633 --> 00:51:58.438
  • Here in houston and oxford and how you have facilitated many
  • 00:51:58.438 --> 00:52:04.010
  • Things for us.
  • 00:52:04.010 --> 00:52:07.547
  • Thank you for facilitating the locations that we did in our
  • 00:52:07.547 --> 00:52:11.585
  • Viewing.
  • 00:52:11.585 --> 00:52:13.987
  • - it's god's house.
  • 00:52:13.987 --> 00:52:16.957
  • It's yours to use whatever.
  • 00:52:16.957 --> 00:52:19.559
  • It's used for anyone in the kingdom.
  • 00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.127
  • - it would be fun for you to take your kinda jury trial vibe
  • 00:52:21.127 --> 00:52:27.434
  • And tell our audience why and how they can become far oh
  • 00:52:27.434 --> 00:52:37.577
  • Followers of jesus.
  • 00:52:37.577 --> 00:52:39.012
  • - can i look at the camera?
  • 00:52:39.012 --> 00:52:41.915
  • - you must.
  • 00:52:41.915 --> 00:52:47.087
  • - there really is a god.
  • 00:52:47.087 --> 00:52:48.154
  • He really knows your name.
  • 00:52:48.154 --> 00:52:51.157
  • And there is nothing that can separate you from his love for
  • 00:52:51.157 --> 00:52:56.496
  • You.
  • 00:52:56.496 --> 00:52:57.631
  • And he desires the absolute best for you.
  • 00:52:57.631 --> 00:53:00.567
  • But you have a problem.
  • 00:53:00.567 --> 00:53:03.370
  • You have sin that has corrupted your nature, it's
  • 00:53:03.370 --> 00:53:08.041
  • Corrupted who you are you cannot beat it though you try.
  • 00:53:08.041 --> 00:53:13.947
  • You cannot ever restore yourself to purity.
  • 00:53:13.947 --> 00:53:17.817
  • Anymore than i can have the c grade point average and turn
  • 00:53:17.817 --> 00:53:21.755
  • It into a 100 grade point average and once you've lost
  • 00:53:21.755 --> 00:53:24.591
  • 100 you will never get back up there.
  • 00:53:24.591 --> 00:53:28.461
  • So god says i love you so much that this is what i'm going to
  • 00:53:28.461 --> 00:53:34.067
  • Do.
  • 00:53:34.067 --> 00:53:35.368
  • I'm going to die a death that you deserve and i'm going to
  • 00:53:35.368 --> 00:53:38.271
  • Be resurrected because i am god.
  • 00:53:38.271 --> 00:53:41.374
  • And then you can trust me to bring you with me.
  • 00:53:41.374 --> 00:53:46.279
  • So the death that i died you died with me in a life that i
  • 00:53:46.279 --> 00:53:54.954
  • Now live post death the resurrection life is yours.
  • 00:53:54.954 --> 00:53:59.259
  • Paul says it this way, i have been crucified with christ
  • 00:53:59.259 --> 00:54:06.333
  • Nevertheless i live, but it's no longer going to be you
  • 00:54:06.333 --> 00:54:08.935
  • Living it'll be christ living in you.
  • 00:54:08.935 --> 00:54:11.171
  • And the life you live here and now is one that you live by
  • 00:54:11.171 --> 00:54:16.576
  • The spirit of god and it's very simple.
  • 00:54:16.576 --> 00:54:18.078
  • God loves you he wants that for you all you do is say god,
  • 00:54:18.078 --> 00:54:21.681
  • I am a sinner.
  • 00:54:21.681 --> 00:54:24.951
  • I need that.
  • 00:54:24.951 --> 00:54:27.854
  • I will trust you with that.
  • 00:54:27.854 --> 00:54:29.756
  • Would you please be my lord?
  • 00:54:29.756 --> 00:54:31.691
  • And he will answer that prayer immediately.
  • 00:54:31.691 --> 00:54:35.428
  • That's the promise of scripture and the holy spirit
  • 00:54:35.428 --> 00:54:38.598
  • Will come to lead you in life and get involved in a church,
  • 00:54:38.598 --> 00:54:43.436
  • Get involved in the community, believers who care about
  • 00:54:43.436 --> 00:54:47.273
  • Scripture and care about the lord.
  • 00:54:47.273 --> 00:54:50.210
  • Get plugged in somewhere and god will transform your life.
  • 00:54:50.210 --> 00:54:53.546
  • - i pass the witness.
  • 00:54:53.546 --> 00:55:00.019
  • - well thank you guys for what you do for the kingdom and it's
  • 00:55:00.019 --> 00:55:05.225
  • Such an honor to be able to get to be on your show.
  • 00:55:05.225 --> 00:55:07.293
  • I mean that.
  • 00:55:07.293 --> 00:55:10.497
  • - we have discussed jurisprudence we discussed
  • 00:55:10.497 --> 00:55:12.766
  • Romans, we sat here talked about jesus for an hour, and then
  • 00:55:12.766 --> 00:55:17.937
  • You took your two vocations preacher and lawyer and you
  • 00:55:17.937 --> 00:55:24.043
  • Wrapped up doing what tbn has been doing for 52 years
  • 00:55:24.043 --> 00:55:27.180
  • Leading and encouraging people to know jesus christ as their
  • 00:55:27.180 --> 00:55:33.086
  • Personal savior thank you mark for what you do you think you
  • 00:55:33.086 --> 00:55:36.890
  • For this amazing place, all over the world, and we
  • 00:55:36.890 --> 00:55:39.058
  • Appreciate your time and thank you for allowing us to be here
  • 00:55:39.058 --> 00:55:44.731
  • At the lanier theological library.
  • 00:55:44.731 --> 00:55:47.000
  • - thank you for letting me do kingdom work with you.
  • 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:49.702
  • Blessings.
  • 00:55:49.702 --> 00:55:51.137
  • Thank you.
  • 00:55:51.137 --> 00:55:51.704
  • Beautiful.
  • 00:55:51.704 --> 00:55:52.705
  • ♪ (music playing)
  • 00:55:52.705 --> 00:55:52.705