Praise

Mike Hayes, David Holland, & Dudley Hall: The Glorious Hope of Bible Prophecy | Praise

May 15, 2025 | 50:45

Matt Crouch hosts Mike Hayes, David Holland, and Dudley Hall for a powerful discussion on Victorious Eschatology. Together, they delve into the biblical truths and discoveries surrounding eschatology, shedding light on God's ultimate plan for the world.

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Praise | Mike Hayes, David Holland, & Dudley Hall: The Glorious Hope of Bible Prophecy | Praise | May 15, 2025

Coming up tonight on praise...
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This is jesus bringing about a victory that we're a part of,
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And i wanna see as the body of christ, there are apparently
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Almost two billion people on the planet who claim christ
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To be their lord.
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That's enough people to move the needle.
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If we can engage them instead of disengage them to wait on
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The eastern sky, if we can
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Engage them in changing the culture.
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Here's my invitation now evangelistically.
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In those days, the invitation was hurry up, get in the ark,
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The door's about to close, the russians are marching, the
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Antichrist's alive somewhere, we're barely gonna get you in,
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But if you call tonight, we can get you in the kingdom.
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So we scared some people in.
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I like this better invitation.
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I use it with people right now.
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Would you like to know about and join a kingdom led by jesus
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As the king of kings into a life of victory and joy that
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You can't even imagine, and you'll be filled with hope.
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And we're on the side that wins.
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And from here on, his kingdom is increasing a little bit
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Every day.
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You wanna join that kingdom and win?
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That's my invitation.
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That's-- yeah.
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That's so good.
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And that kingdom operates on a love that can't fail.
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It will never stop, and it never fails.
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And it's also predicated on a message that the bible says
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Once you speak it, it will not
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Return to god without accomplishing.
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So every time we preach the message of the kingdom, with
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Jesus being the center of the king and his finished work
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Being the issue, every time we do that, we start a wave on the
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Ocean of time that never stops for eternity.
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We are on the winning side.
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♪♪
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Praise comes to you here in dallas, texas.
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Beautiful library set 2025.
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Mike help me go back to about 1985.
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Let's go, let's go way back.
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We're calling it, we're calling, you know, going back,
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Forty years now.
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You're going to help me tell a little bit of a story here.
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And dudley, you for being here.
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Dave, thank you for being here.
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Pastor mike, you were around when paul crouch was sitting
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With hal lindsey and they were debating the end, eschatology,
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And that was a big subject back then, you know, late great
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Planet earth was a big deal.
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Number one selling book of the seventies decade.
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Okay, late great planet earth.
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We've all been influenced by it, most everyone viewing.
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And it feels like when we get forty years later, that's not
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Really being taught anymore, much anymore.
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Hal's gone to be with jesus.
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My folks are in heaven.
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And i think they're up there with the lord scratching their
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Head going, we thought we had it all figured out.
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We thought the lord was coming back in any minute and he had,
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We're all still here.
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It feels like there were praise programs,
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You could have even been a part of some of them where
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Eschatology was being debated in one little piece of,
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You know, kind of dispensational theology.
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You know, we were talking about is it is the rapture going to
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Be pre trib, mid trib or post trib?
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And it feels like the story has grown.
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We've zoomed out and there are more ways to look at the end.
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Eschatology has more viewpoints than i ever knew existed.
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Okay? so we're not trying to debate, argue and we're not, no
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One's going to win an argument here, but it feels like the
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Story got bigger and my mom and dad were debating one little
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Piece of the story and the story is much bigger.
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Help me explain kinda what we're talking about and then,
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Guys, we're gonna jump in and
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And have a nice little conversation.
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I'm gonna make you do all the heavy lifting.
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Great. great to be here, matt.
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Thank for hosting this with these, these men, and i'm
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Looking forward to it.
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Well, obviously, i was a lot younger guy forty years ago,
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Late twenties, early thirties, building a church in the dallas
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Area, got acquainted with your folks and with you and,
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Started, ministering some on tbn here and there.
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The eschatology word as a word seldom came up.
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I think we were looking at narrow splinter of what would
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Be eschatology, which for them was, you gotta remember, you
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Know, the jesus movement in california and all the hippie
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Kind of revival, hal lindsey's book, late great planet earth,
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Which speaks for itself.
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So eschatology amounted to end of the world discussions and
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How's it gonna be and how soon.
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And it's almost like the argument now seems like a
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Tempest in a teapot.
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Got it.
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Are we gonna be raptured before middle of or right after the
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Great tribulation?
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And we've some believe before and some middle and some after.
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It was an evangelistic tool.
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Scare people into the kingdom because we're all
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Out of here any day.
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And somehow the connotation was, i don't know if it was
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Intended, but a lot of the rapture talk was, i mean, i was
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Building a church and i was never sure if i was going.
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It was like it was gonna be a really, midnight
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Raid that you weren't sure ever that you were ready.
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And, it was effective for a while, i suppose.
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Thief in the night was a big deal.
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Absolutely. yeah.
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Left behind-- yeah.
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Came after that.
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Yeah. so, really, it was an era.
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Your late folks and a lot of them that are in heaven now, i
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Think they're probably saying to jesus, please try to get a
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Message down there to our kids about how bad we messed this up.
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They they've got a chance to-- because here's why we're here,
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Matt, and here's the positive side.
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Isaiah gives us this beautiful prophecy that when the image is
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Stricken in the feet and all that, we don't have to go into
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That, that there is coming an ever-increasing kingdom of the
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Increase of his government.
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Not of his government, of the increase of his government.
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That means that today, the manifestation of his kingdom in
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The earth is as small as it's ever going to be because
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Tomorrow it's a little bit bigger.
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Yeah. so my idea is, and i hope we get into some of this, i
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Feel really excited about it and thankful for this
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Format, matt.
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I'm more into the gradualism of kingdom expansion than i am the
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Disastrous ending where it's always cataclysmic.
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I haven't seen god do his greatest work because of a
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Cataclysm, cataclysmic event that he caused, and then he's
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Gonna make a big change.
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Those happen for judgments, but the kingdom is creeping forward
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Every day getting a little bigger.
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All right.
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That's good.
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All right,
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Dudley, kind of extend that, opening kind of, argument
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That we grew up in this time where a antichrist force was
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Going to rise up, take over,
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And it was going to get really bad.
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And there is a big segment of theology that just has largely
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Started pushing back against that some, it feels that way.
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Extend kind of this opening kind of statement here.
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Yeah, i totally agree with mike.
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I was pastoring a church in
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Fort worth, texas in '72.
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Jesus movement hits during that time.
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All the kids that were getting saved, were baptizing at night,
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And i was getting called at two in the morning, so and so got
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Saved, can you come baptize?
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I was like, well, they'll wait till tomorrow.
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Kids excited about jesus and all of them are reading late
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Great planet earth.
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And i'm trying to grow a church, you said, and i'm
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Trying to disciple these kids and they said, no, no, we're
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Not to learn how to interpret scripture, we're not going to
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Learn how to handle life,
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We're not even going get married.
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We're out of here.
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And so they didn't know how to handle money, they didn't know
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How to handle marriage, didn't know how to handle love, they
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Didn't how handle life.
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And it's very difficult to disciple people who think
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They're going to get raptured out tonight or tomorrow.
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And so i read the late great planet earth since they were
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Reading it and i remember thinking, if
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If that's how you interpret scripture,
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I'm in big trouble.
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Wow.
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I didn't know hal and i knew he came from dallas theological.
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I had a lot of friends there.
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But it's like, that can't be the story.
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That is not the story of
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The bible and that's not how it ends.
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And so all of the hopelessness and stuff that we're talking
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About today, i think some of it lays at our feet because we
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Did not speak up and say,
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That's not the story.
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There's a story that has meaning to it, that has purpose
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To it.
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You're here to do something and you're here to push back
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Darkness and you can.
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And i think we got a generation of people who are ready to
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Do it. absolutely.
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Dave, give me your opening comments, but it feels like
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There was,
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You know, this great tribulation that somehow
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Dispensational theology threw into the future.
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And then i read in a book not terribly long ago that no, that
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Doesn't pertain to some future event, that was pertaining to
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The seventy ad, the end of the first covenant.
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And i went--
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Remember literally kind of going, what?
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And scared laurie in bed because i was reading and she jumped
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And i said listen to this.
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So it feels like there is, we just didn't hear that there was
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Large parts of the body of christ that did not think that
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The dispensational theology as kind of created by john darby
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In the 1830s or so.
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And that how somehow the future millennium got thrown into
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The future and it wasn't present time.
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And so we had to create a term for present time and this
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Present church age and all sorts of stuff, but it had
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Never historically been
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Treated that way.
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Help us with this opening comment.
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Sure, sure, sure.
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Yeah, and i'm a history guy, ended up being a history guy,
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But the men here have just described me.
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I was one of those kids, i didn't, i wasn't at dudley's
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Church, but born in '59, that meant in '68,
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'69, '70, when the hippie movement was happening
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And the sexual revolution was breaking out, we were still
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Under constant threat of imminent nuclear war with the
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Soviet union and the cold war was raging, and in our culture
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It felt like the wheels were coming off, and that is that's
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When i first became aware at the age of ten, eleven, twelve
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Of what was going on in the world, and every adult i knew
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Thought the wheels were off and we are hurtling down the
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Freeway and sparks are flying and the world was imminently
00:12:10.051 --> 00:12:15.023
Going to end.
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And then, of course, i as a ten or eleven, twelve year old boy
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Who loved the lord, had been saved in a little baptist
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Church in southeastern oklahoma,
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And loved sci-fi and fantasy books.
00:12:26.901 --> 00:12:30.405
I was reading sci-fi and lord of the rings and ghost stories
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And supernatural stuff, even though i loved the lord.
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And then, a well intentioned sunday school teacher took me
00:12:38.813 --> 00:12:41.950
And a bunch of other eleven year old boys through the
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Late great planet earth.
00:12:44.285 --> 00:12:45.520
And it was a game changer for me and not in a good way.
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Wow. it was because everything i was already wired to be
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Excited and energized by, late great planet earth with the
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Antichrist and the mark of the beast and all of those kind of
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Things, i mean, i just shoot it right into my veins, come on.
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And i became obsessed with it, and what it did to me is
00:13:04.939 --> 00:13:09.811
Precisely what dudley just described.
00:13:09.811 --> 00:13:12.413
You know, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen year old
00:13:12.513 --> 00:13:14.949
Boys don't need any help not being future oriented.
00:13:14.949 --> 00:13:18.686
We've already got that down, and then if you give me a
00:13:18.686 --> 00:13:22.891
Theological, biblical reason to not be future oriented,
00:13:22.891 --> 00:13:27.829
Then why study?
00:13:27.829 --> 00:13:29.264
I was one hundred percent convinced that i
00:13:29.264 --> 00:13:33.134
Was never gonna even get out of high school, much less college,
00:13:33.134 --> 00:13:36.404
And every evangelist that came through our church to preach a
00:13:36.404 --> 00:13:39.040
Revival used that, know, the is leaving, you better get on the
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Ark because the rains are coming any minute now.
00:13:44.512 --> 00:13:48.149
They used that as an evangelistic tool and it was
00:13:48.149 --> 00:13:50.518
Very effective.
00:13:50.518 --> 00:13:51.853
So all of these spiritual authorities in my life told me
00:13:51.953 --> 00:13:54.522
That i was never gonna
00:13:54.522 --> 00:13:55.790
Get out of high school, much less enter college.
00:13:55.790 --> 00:13:58.526
I was probably never gonna kiss a girl.
00:13:58.526 --> 00:14:00.395
And all of those things, so i just wrote that right into my
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Thinking, and i became completely
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Futureless as a young man.
00:14:08.903 --> 00:14:12.840
But i got into college, developed an affinity for
00:14:12.941 --> 00:14:17.011
History, including church history, and all of a sudden i
00:14:17.011 --> 00:14:20.281
Discovered that wasn't the
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Only way to think about the way the story
00:14:22.283 --> 00:14:23.785
The bible was telling about king jesus and the kingdom.
00:14:23.785 --> 00:14:28.589
And i discovered that throughout the history,
00:14:28.690 --> 00:14:30.525
Throughout the 2000 years of history, there had
00:14:30.525 --> 00:14:32.427
Always been varying perspectives about that, and
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Not just the one that i'd been told, and particularly not just
00:14:36.931 --> 00:14:40.134
That dispensational one, which at the time was 150,
00:14:40.134 --> 00:14:42.904
160 years old.
00:14:42.904 --> 00:14:45.139
So all of a sudden i began to study history and discovered
00:14:45.139 --> 00:14:50.411
That in almost every era of christian history, there were
00:14:50.411 --> 00:14:55.016
People who thought they were living in the last days.
00:14:55.016 --> 00:14:56.851
Every, all the way through, if they viewed the story of,
00:14:58.052 --> 00:15:03.191
Particularly if their view of revelation was a futurist view,
00:15:03.191 --> 00:15:07.028
That is a view that the events of the book of revelation were
00:15:07.028 --> 00:15:10.798
Future, then they begin to read
00:15:10.798 --> 00:15:14.135
The bible backwards, first of all.
00:15:14.135 --> 00:15:16.270
And so that's the lens that through which you read jesus'
00:15:16.270 --> 00:15:19.774
Comments in matthew 24 and luke 17 about wars
00:15:19.774 --> 00:15:22.910
And rumors of wars and all that stuff.
00:15:22.910 --> 00:15:25.146
It became the lens through
00:15:25.146 --> 00:15:26.147
Which you read the book of daniel.
00:15:26.147 --> 00:15:28.082
It becomes the lens in which you read the entire story that
00:15:28.182 --> 00:15:31.786
The bible's telling.
00:15:31.786 --> 00:15:33.421
Well, i discovered, matt, that there were a lot of believers
00:15:33.521 --> 00:15:37.325
Throughout history who viewed it a different way, but those
00:15:37.325 --> 00:15:41.696
Who didn't view it a different way thought they were living
00:15:41.696 --> 00:15:44.799
In the end times.
00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:45.833
Here, one quick story.
00:15:45.933 --> 00:15:47.535
I was just reading this week
00:15:47.635 --> 00:15:50.638
An old book by amy semple mcpherson.
00:15:50.638 --> 00:15:53.808
Big revivalist, she was a pioneer in christian media by
00:15:53.908 --> 00:15:57.678
Being on the radio.
00:15:57.678 --> 00:15:58.646
Los angeles.
00:15:58.646 --> 00:15:59.847
Los angeles. angeles temple, founder of the foursquare
00:15:59.847 --> 00:16:03.017
Denomination, god bless jack hayford.
00:16:03.017 --> 00:16:05.653
But i was reading a book that she wrote in 1921
00:16:06.687 --> 00:16:09.824
Called the return of jesus christ, and in it she makes the
00:16:09.824 --> 00:16:14.162
Case that they are absolutely living in the end times
00:16:14.162 --> 00:16:18.032
And the end is nigh.
00:16:18.032 --> 00:16:19.600
This is 1921.
00:16:20.034 --> 00:16:22.303
World war one had just happened probably, and
00:16:22.403 --> 00:16:24.705
So that, you-- absolutely, she's pointing
00:16:24.705 --> 00:16:25.907
To wars and rumors of wars and information exploding.
00:16:25.907 --> 00:16:29.410
She's pointing to all of those daniel and matthew 24
00:16:29.410 --> 00:16:32.513
Things saying, hey, we have to be living in the end times.
00:16:32.513 --> 00:16:36.284
Well guess what?
00:16:36.284 --> 00:16:37.485
Anyone who's ever taken a futurist view has looked at
00:16:37.485 --> 00:16:40.788
Matthew 24 and luke 17 and said, this is it.
00:16:40.788 --> 00:16:46.327
It's a rorschach inkblot in which you see the time in which
00:16:46.427 --> 00:16:49.764
You're living in that moment.
00:16:49.764 --> 00:16:52.133
And so that's what my study of history taught me.
00:16:52.133 --> 00:16:54.268
It feels like, guys, that i've done a number of these
00:16:54.268 --> 00:16:57.905
Interviews now and this is, again, we started out by
00:16:57.905 --> 00:17:02.510
Hearkening back to a time when my dad would sit on this side
00:17:02.510 --> 00:17:07.515
And he'd have three bible teachers with him.
00:17:07.515 --> 00:17:10.818
Usually one was hal lindsey and, and, they'd argue, you
00:17:10.818 --> 00:17:16.023
Know, kind of whether it was pre, mid, or post.
00:17:16.023 --> 00:17:19.427
And now we're, we're arguing something much bigger where
00:17:19.427 --> 00:17:22.897
We're, we're discussing something much bigger.
00:17:22.897 --> 00:17:25.433
And it feels like, you know, again, without-- i didn't go to
00:17:25.533 --> 00:17:30.438
Bible school and i've never pastored a church.
00:17:30.438 --> 00:17:33.908
So from my television producer standpoint, this is the way i
00:17:34.008 --> 00:17:39.814
Would say it is, is people are basically
00:17:39.814 --> 00:17:44.485
Taking the book of revelation
00:17:45.186 --> 00:17:46.888
And let's just call it the hot potato.
00:17:46.888 --> 00:17:49.157
Okay. whether you want to put it all in the past or whether
00:17:49.157 --> 00:17:55.329
You wanna put it all in the future but you certainly don't
00:17:55.329 --> 00:17:58.533
Wanna hold the thing.
00:17:58.533 --> 00:17:59.800
You don't want it to mean anything right here, right now.
00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:04.105
And so you read things in the olivet discourse, you read
00:18:04.205 --> 00:18:10.011
Things and you're interpreting this like the inkblot test, you
00:18:10.011 --> 00:18:13.681
Know, whether you think everything's in the future and
00:18:13.681 --> 00:18:17.185
Realistically i think
00:18:17.285 --> 00:18:18.786
Revelation is the story of all time,
00:18:18.786 --> 00:18:21.722
It feels like, or why would it be called the revelation
00:18:21.822 --> 00:18:24.425
Of jesus christ?
00:18:24.425 --> 00:18:25.426
He's the same yesterday, today and forever.
00:18:25.426 --> 00:18:28.296
And that it is neither all in the past nor all in the future.
00:18:28.396 --> 00:18:32.633
And we're really coming to,
00:18:32.633 --> 00:18:34.969
Kind of this common sense viewpoint.
00:18:35.069 --> 00:18:37.405
Back to you, mike.
00:18:37.905 --> 00:18:39.173
Continue the discussion where you think you need to help us
00:18:39.273 --> 00:18:42.910
Get a little more understanding of this.
00:18:42.910 --> 00:18:44.912
Well, for me personally, matt,
00:18:44.912 --> 00:18:46.647
And this leads to so many good things.
00:18:46.647 --> 00:18:49.884
For me personally, my story changed.
00:18:49.884 --> 00:18:52.286
First of all, as a boy growing up in the terror of most
00:18:52.386 --> 00:18:57.525
Messages, you know, we didn't just have the rapture fear
00:18:57.525 --> 00:19:01.662
To deal with.
00:19:01.662 --> 00:19:02.863
We had the antichrist is alive somewhere on the planet
00:19:02.863 --> 00:19:05.900
Now, breathing air.
00:19:05.900 --> 00:19:07.802
He's gonna take over.
00:19:07.902 --> 00:19:09.203
You're gonna have to you're gonna be forced to take a mark
00:19:09.203 --> 00:19:11.072
Or they're gonna behead you.
00:19:11.072 --> 00:19:12.673
Then we had the russians to worry about and the blood
00:19:12.773 --> 00:19:15.076
Turning to moon the moon turning to blood and the
00:19:15.076 --> 00:19:17.511
Nuclear holocaust and the dark night and the end of the world.
00:19:17.511 --> 00:19:21.949
In fact, the late great planet earth is an absolute, with due
00:19:22.049 --> 00:19:27.154
Respect, slap in the face to all of god's plan.
00:19:27.154 --> 00:19:30.024
Wow. because god is gonna resurrect the heavens
00:19:30.024 --> 00:19:33.394
And the earth. thank you, lord.
00:19:33.394 --> 00:19:34.695
And create out of this what he did with the resurrection of
00:19:34.695 --> 00:19:38.633
Jesus, he's gonna do with the whole of creation.
00:19:38.633 --> 00:19:40.901
Yes.
00:19:40.901 --> 00:19:41.836
So for me, here's what happened, matt.
00:19:41.836 --> 00:19:43.537
What changed my world is an
00:19:43.638 --> 00:19:46.140
Honest look at matthew 24.
00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:48.175
And i think it's okay.
00:19:48.175 --> 00:19:49.143
I don't wanna beat around the bush here.
00:19:49.143 --> 00:19:51.345
I'm still growing, but i believe what i believe.
00:19:51.445 --> 00:19:54.882
Sure. i believe all of matthew 24 is history.
00:19:54.882 --> 00:19:58.019
Okay? i believe we are always an egotistical generation that
00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:02.556
Somehow makes it apply to us
00:20:02.556 --> 00:20:04.825
When it didn't apply to us at all.
00:20:04.825 --> 00:20:06.927
You know, jesus' disciples sat down with him with eyes this
00:20:07.028 --> 00:20:10.398
Big and said, you've just prophesied some things about
00:20:10.398 --> 00:20:13.701
The destruction of the temple and the whole system, which by
00:20:13.701 --> 00:20:16.771
The way, is what the bible
00:20:16.771 --> 00:20:18.272
Calls the last days, not our days.
00:20:18.272 --> 00:20:20.408
The last days of the old structure of the covenant and
00:20:20.508 --> 00:20:24.178
The temple.
00:20:24.178 --> 00:20:25.479
They sat down privately and said, please tell us when are
00:20:25.479 --> 00:20:28.883
These things gonna be.
00:20:28.883 --> 00:20:29.950
Now watch this.
00:20:29.950 --> 00:20:31.419
He sits down and starts to break it down.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:33.788
When will these things be?
00:20:33.788 --> 00:20:35.189
And in matthew 24, he uses the word as he looks in
00:20:35.289 --> 00:20:39.760
Their eyes and he is their
00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:42.163
Leader and they're begging for truth.
00:20:42.163 --> 00:20:44.165
This is gonna affect their life.
00:20:44.165 --> 00:20:45.933
He uses the term you 23 times, but somehow that
00:20:46.033 --> 00:20:50.137
Didn't apply to them, it applies to us 2000 years later.
00:20:50.137 --> 00:20:54.041
How do we miss things that bad?
00:20:54.775 --> 00:20:56.811
He wasn't talking to us, he was talking to them.
00:20:56.811 --> 00:21:00.781
And you know how effectively they applied his message?
00:21:00.781 --> 00:21:03.751
No christians died in the holocaust of seventy ad.
00:21:04.785 --> 00:21:07.888
That's right.
00:21:07.888 --> 00:21:09.223
Because they were appropriately warned and knew where to go,
00:21:09.223 --> 00:21:11.959
And they escaped to a city in what is now jordan called
00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:15.029
Pella, and the christians lived there while the romans marched
00:21:15.029 --> 00:21:18.699
In and destroyed the stubborn and the deaf and those who
00:21:18.699 --> 00:21:22.903
Wouldn't hear his message, so
00:21:22.903 --> 00:21:25.139
I believe all of matthew 24 is history, and i believe
00:21:26.273 --> 00:21:29.910
Most of revelation is history except the last two chapters.
00:21:29.910 --> 00:21:33.180
And when we talk about because to me, if in fact
00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:38.185
There's not rapture, antichrist, mark of the beast,
00:21:38.185 --> 00:21:42.556
And great tribulation, which by the way jesus used that term
00:21:42.556 --> 00:21:46.761
In matthew 24
00:21:46.761 --> 00:21:47.928
Speaking of 70 ad, there will be great tribulations such
00:21:48.028 --> 00:21:52.199
As has never been or will ever be again, but we're gonna put
00:21:52.199 --> 00:21:56.036
It in the future. wow.
00:21:56.036 --> 00:21:56.904
And he's talking about in the 70 ad.
00:21:56.904 --> 00:21:59.807
The christians escaped, rome destroyed all of jerusalem.
00:21:59.907 --> 00:22:04.578
Every verse has meaning in that.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.148
And then when you get to revelation, and i'm gonna say
00:22:07.148 --> 00:22:09.784
It perhaps on this one, these gentlemen, i'd be
00:22:09.784 --> 00:22:12.186
Interested to know what they think.
00:22:12.186 --> 00:22:14.088
Matthew, mark, and luke all wrote
00:22:14.188 --> 00:22:16.690
The olivet discourse and their take on it.
00:22:17.658 --> 00:22:20.694
John didn't.
00:22:20.694 --> 00:22:21.929
In john's book, he didn't
00:22:22.029 --> 00:22:23.397
Address it, but he did in revelation.
00:22:23.397 --> 00:22:26.066
So maybe the book of revelation is john's version of
00:22:26.066 --> 00:22:32.072
Olivet discourse got it.
00:22:32.072 --> 00:22:33.941
And that generation.
00:22:33.941 --> 00:22:35.976
It wasn't the generation that started in 1948,
00:22:36.076 --> 00:22:38.913
And i'll tell you, that was the first domino to
00:22:38.913 --> 00:22:42.283
Fall for me.
00:22:42.283 --> 00:22:43.551
If you choose to believe that he wasn't referring to our day
00:22:43.651 --> 00:22:47.655
In nineteen forty eight, but he was referring to their
00:22:47.655 --> 00:22:50.825
Generation when he said this generation,
00:22:50.825 --> 00:22:54.228
You, i've used twenty three times,
00:22:55.062 --> 00:22:57.431
You, your generation will not
00:22:58.132 --> 00:23:01.035
Pass till all these things be fulfilled.
00:23:01.035 --> 00:23:03.537
That's either right or it's not.
00:23:03.537 --> 00:23:05.806
So if you're gonna move that message to the future,
00:23:05.906 --> 00:23:09.610
Then you have to ignore every signpost of what he said it was
00:23:10.911 --> 00:23:14.782
For and when, but they didn't.
00:23:14.782 --> 00:23:17.785
They used it, they followed it, and they escaped the wrath of
00:23:17.885 --> 00:23:23.157
Rome coming down.
00:23:23.157 --> 00:23:24.458
And the temple system and the and the priest died, and it
00:23:24.458 --> 00:23:28.896
Was horrible as jesus said it would be.
00:23:28.896 --> 00:23:31.298
So then in revelation, we go through seven churches, go
00:23:31.398 --> 00:23:34.535
Through, and then the new heaven and the new earth.
00:23:34.535 --> 00:23:38.472
Everything is resurrected.
00:23:38.572 --> 00:23:40.474
So simply put, matt, and we'll throw this out there and
00:23:40.574 --> 00:23:43.444
Hopefully we can talk about it,
00:23:43.444 --> 00:23:44.912
I believe that revelation was mostly fulfilled.
00:23:44.912 --> 00:23:49.083
And i believe we have much to look forward to.
00:23:49.183 --> 00:23:52.186
Some people say, my gosh, if you're gonna take away my
00:23:52.286 --> 00:23:54.822
Rapture and my whatever else, what do we have left?
00:23:54.822 --> 00:23:58.058
So glad you asked.
00:23:58.058 --> 00:23:59.426
Because i'll tell you what, guys, the passion i feel right
00:23:59.426 --> 00:24:02.763
Now is a passion and even, i don't know what righteous in
00:24:02.763 --> 00:24:08.035
The indignation is, i just feel angry,
00:24:08.035 --> 00:24:10.971
That messages see bad doctrines always lead us to bad outcomes.
00:24:11.071 --> 00:24:15.676
And this message of futurism has immobilized the church.
00:24:15.676 --> 00:24:22.516
Yes.
00:24:22.516 --> 00:24:23.851
And no corporation in the world can survive in business with
00:24:23.851 --> 00:24:27.788
About five or ten percent knowing what we're here to do.
00:24:27.788 --> 00:24:30.558
Yeah. and the rest sitting waiting to leave.
00:24:30.558 --> 00:24:33.360
Yeah.
00:24:33.661 --> 00:24:34.728
So this has to change because what's coming?
00:24:34.728 --> 00:24:39.166
The second coming of jesus, the resurrection of the dead, the
00:24:39.266 --> 00:24:42.937
Judgment of all men, and the restoration of the new heaven
00:24:42.937 --> 00:24:46.073
And the new earth.
00:24:46.073 --> 00:24:46.907
Way to go.
00:24:47.007 --> 00:24:48.309
And we're right there in the middle of this and we are the
00:24:48.309 --> 00:24:51.145
Agents of change.
00:24:51.145 --> 00:24:52.513
So in my opinion, you can shut me down, but somebody's gotta
00:24:52.513 --> 00:24:56.450
Say something.
00:24:56.450 --> 00:24:57.318
I'm gonna say what
00:24:57.318 --> 00:24:58.385
I can say.
00:24:58.385 --> 00:24:59.053
So you're next.
00:24:59.053 --> 00:25:00.354
Okay. so get ready to go.
00:25:00.454 --> 00:25:02.289
Okay.
00:25:02.289 --> 00:25:03.090
But i just wanna make it clear.
00:25:03.090 --> 00:25:04.558
All of the nuance is gone.
00:25:04.658 --> 00:25:06.794
You just threw down, mike.
00:25:06.894 --> 00:25:08.529
So there's no nuance left if you thought there was.
00:25:08.529 --> 00:25:12.032
I just had a seventy- fifth birthday.
00:25:12.132 --> 00:25:14.034
I don't have time for nuance.
00:25:14.034 --> 00:25:16.604
We gotta get something set.
00:25:17.271 --> 00:25:18.405
You don't even buy fresh bananas, you buy them.
00:25:18.405 --> 00:25:21.642
Okay, so look, there is this, there are these terms that
00:25:21.642 --> 00:25:27.014
We've all grown up in, great tribulation and all of this
00:25:27.014 --> 00:25:30.784
Stuff that, you know, and there is a way to interpret scripture
00:25:30.784 --> 00:25:34.888
That that is all in the rearview mirror.
00:25:34.888 --> 00:25:37.391
And guess what?
00:25:37.391 --> 00:25:39.960
I don't know that some people have ever been to a church that
00:25:40.060 --> 00:25:45.766
Somebody was talking like this, you know, it felt like there
00:25:45.766 --> 00:25:48.535
Was a movement a few years ago called kingdom now and that all
00:25:48.535 --> 00:25:52.773
Kind of epically crashed and burned and so you couldn't
00:25:52.773 --> 00:25:56.143
Believe that.
00:25:56.143 --> 00:25:57.411
So there was really nothing else being taught, you know,
00:25:57.411 --> 00:26:00.514
Unless you were in europe where they don't really get this and
00:26:00.514 --> 00:26:04.184
This dispensationalism.
00:26:04.184 --> 00:26:06.553
Pick up on where mike is, now that the nuance is gone, go
00:26:06.654 --> 00:26:09.823
Ahead and just say what you wanna say but i--
00:26:09.823 --> 00:26:13.460
Your turn.
00:26:13.827 --> 00:26:15.029
Well, i just finished a book called at last, and i deal
00:26:15.129 --> 00:26:19.767
With the times and the scripture talks all about last.
00:26:19.767 --> 00:26:23.037
Yep. that was the last of the judaistic system that
00:26:23.037 --> 00:26:26.273
Had become an idol.
00:26:26.273 --> 00:26:27.341
They're different they're different last.
00:26:27.341 --> 00:26:29.043
And we're living in the last chapter of the story, not the
00:26:29.143 --> 00:26:33.914
Last days of history.
00:26:33.914 --> 00:26:35.315
And so i like what you were saying there.
00:26:35.315 --> 00:26:39.653
Interestingly about that,
00:26:39.653 --> 00:26:42.322
Matthew 24 says, you'll see wars and rumors
00:26:43.257 --> 00:26:47.394
Of wars and famines and earthquakes.
00:26:47.394 --> 00:26:49.263
That's not the sign of his and
00:26:49.263 --> 00:26:52.499
Yet every time i heard a message about that or read
00:26:53.567 --> 00:26:56.136
Books about it, it's like, okay, there's wars going on and
00:26:56.136 --> 00:26:59.306
There are more earthquakes
00:26:59.306 --> 00:27:00.507
Than ever and all this stuff's going on.
00:27:00.507 --> 00:27:02.509
That's a sign.
00:27:02.509 --> 00:27:03.811
He said that's not the sign.
00:27:03.911 --> 00:27:06.313
The sign is when you see an army surrounding jerusalem,
00:27:06.413 --> 00:27:10.184
You'll know it's time to get out of town.
00:27:10.284 --> 00:27:12.453
And if you're on the roof, don't even go get a coat.
00:27:12.453 --> 00:27:16.023
Get out of town because that army is around there and god is
00:27:16.023 --> 00:27:20.160
Bringing judgment on an idolatrous religious system,
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:25.332
Which is what judaism had
00:27:25.432 --> 00:27:26.800
Become or the israelites had become.
00:27:26.800 --> 00:27:29.203
So i mentioned earlier when i read
00:27:29.203 --> 00:27:33.741
Hal's book,
00:27:34.141 --> 00:27:37.711
He says,
00:27:38.011 --> 00:27:39.113
When you see the fig tree budding, you'll know that
00:27:40.180 --> 00:27:44.518
This is it.
00:27:44.518 --> 00:27:45.786
That was his whole premise of saying, i'm not going to say a
00:27:45.886 --> 00:27:49.923
Date, but that was 1988 and this
00:27:49.923 --> 00:27:52.893
Generation, that's 40 years--
00:27:52.893 --> 00:27:54.394
48, so it's going be about '88.
00:27:54.394 --> 00:27:58.832
And then i had to deal with the '88 reasons and
00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:02.903
89 when they didn't happen in '88.
00:28:02.903 --> 00:28:06.340
And so the system of interpretation there of
00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:11.145
Just cut and paste.
00:28:11.145 --> 00:28:13.313
And so the reason i think,
00:28:13.313 --> 00:28:16.016
Mike, that so many people read matthew 24
00:28:16.016 --> 00:28:21.388
That way and revelation that way is because
00:28:21.388 --> 00:28:24.658
They had been taught to look through that dispensational
00:28:24.658 --> 00:28:27.528
Lens and now they're looking for scriptural confirmation of
00:28:27.528 --> 00:28:31.899
What they already believe.
00:28:31.899 --> 00:28:33.300
Yeah, proof text.
00:28:33.300 --> 00:28:34.434
Yeah, and so what
00:28:34.434 --> 00:28:37.971
Helped me a great deal was just reading the last chapter of
00:28:38.071 --> 00:28:41.141
The book of luke.
00:28:41.141 --> 00:28:42.910
Jesus incognito is walking with the disciples.
00:28:43.010 --> 00:28:45.813
They're totally in depression.
00:28:45.813 --> 00:28:47.681
What they thought was gonna happen didn't happen.
00:28:47.781 --> 00:28:50.350
Jesus has been crucified, injustice is won again, they're
00:28:50.450 --> 00:28:54.288
They're down in the mouth headed toward, emmaus.
00:28:54.288 --> 00:28:57.424
Jesus walks along with them and does a very interesting thing.
00:28:57.524 --> 00:29:01.028
He starts with genesis and tells the whole scriptural
00:29:01.028 --> 00:29:05.766
Story with him as a sinner.
00:29:05.766 --> 00:29:08.402
It's all about him.
00:29:08.402 --> 00:29:09.736
It's not about israel.
00:29:10.304 --> 00:29:11.905
It's not about law.
00:29:11.905 --> 00:29:13.140
It's not about the covenant.
00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:14.308
It's not about jerusalem.
00:29:14.308 --> 00:29:15.642
It's not about the temple.
00:29:15.642 --> 00:29:16.910
It's not about the land.
00:29:16.910 --> 00:29:18.512
It's not about the bloodline.
00:29:18.512 --> 00:29:20.180
It's about jesus.
00:29:20.647 --> 00:29:22.049
And if you read a scripture and you don't get to where jesus is
00:29:22.149 --> 00:29:25.385
The fulfillment of it, go back and read it again, you didn't
00:29:25.385 --> 00:29:28.388
Get it right.
00:29:28.388 --> 00:29:29.022
Wow.
00:29:29.022 --> 00:29:30.390
I remember everything was aligning at tbn in the 80's
00:29:30.390 --> 00:29:38.532
Because in 1987 and 1988
00:29:38.632 --> 00:29:41.535
We owned as many tv
00:29:41.535 --> 00:29:43.704
Stations as the fcc would allow.
00:29:43.704 --> 00:29:46.039
So my dad was saying, i put a satellite everywhere i can
00:29:46.139 --> 00:29:51.445
Put a signal.
00:29:51.445 --> 00:29:52.679
I own as many tv stations as the country will allow me.
00:29:52.779 --> 00:29:57.417
I fulfilled everything.
00:29:57.517 --> 00:29:59.286
It's time for the lord to come back.
00:29:59.286 --> 00:30:01.021
I mean, was just complete coincidence but we had as many
00:30:01.021 --> 00:30:05.525
Tv stations as we could own.
00:30:05.525 --> 00:30:07.461
Dave, continue the story here. yeah,
00:30:07.561 --> 00:30:11.064
Well right now i'm sitting here with a whole lot of sympathy
00:30:11.164 --> 00:30:13.400
And empathy for people who are watching this and they had the
00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:17.404
Experience that you and i had where they'd never heard there
00:30:17.404 --> 00:30:20.774
Was another way to think about the end times.
00:30:20.774 --> 00:30:23.043
This dispensational narrative is the only one they've
00:30:23.143 --> 00:30:26.413
Ever been told.
00:30:26.413 --> 00:30:27.781
Because frankly, that's you can sell a lot of books by getting
00:30:27.881 --> 00:30:32.519
People all ginned up and all excited and freaked out about
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:37.257
The imminence of the second coming.
00:30:37.257 --> 00:30:39.893
It's a good way to sell books.
00:30:39.893 --> 00:30:41.428
It's hard to sell books when
00:30:41.528 --> 00:30:43.397
You say, here's your assignment.
00:30:43.397 --> 00:30:45.933
Yeah. have a good relationship with the lord.
00:30:45.933 --> 00:30:49.903
Have a good marriage.
00:30:49.903 --> 00:30:51.071
Raise good kids.
00:30:51.071 --> 00:30:52.406
Think about the next two or three generations, think
00:30:52.406 --> 00:30:55.309
Generationally, and just push back darkness wherever you go.
00:30:55.309 --> 00:30:59.313
If that's your book, it's hard to sell that book.
00:30:59.413 --> 00:31:01.682
Wow. but i'm sympathetic because it was a painful
00:31:01.682 --> 00:31:06.186
Process for me.
00:31:06.186 --> 00:31:06.920
When i began to see the
00:31:07.521 --> 00:31:09.790
Story the bible's really telling,
00:31:09.890 --> 00:31:12.592
That you took away my antichrist, you took away my
00:31:12.693 --> 00:31:16.163
Mark of the beast, you take away my revelation.
00:31:16.163 --> 00:31:18.899
One by one, piece by piece, i had to give up each one of
00:31:18.899 --> 00:31:21.768
Those things, and each time, it was painful.
00:31:21.768 --> 00:31:24.571
It hurt.
00:31:24.571 --> 00:31:25.872
It hurt to have to think about, start thinking generationally.
00:31:25.973 --> 00:31:30.510
So if people are being introduced to this for the
00:31:30.510 --> 00:31:32.779
First time,
00:31:32.779 --> 00:31:34.915
It-- i just understand it's painful.
00:31:35.782 --> 00:31:38.051
Please, please know.
00:31:38.051 --> 00:31:39.686
But please know that this is a story of hope.
00:31:39.786 --> 00:31:43.056
There's hope here.
00:31:43.156 --> 00:31:44.791
With the five or six years ago with the blood moon thing, i it
00:31:44.891 --> 00:31:47.894
Was the about the fifth big
00:31:47.894 --> 00:31:50.731
Rapture fever cycle of my lifetime.
00:31:50.831 --> 00:31:54.134
Got it.
00:31:54.134 --> 00:31:55.268
And i know people who were absolutely the those blood
00:31:55.369 --> 00:31:59.139
Moon books, and i don't mean to criticize anybody, but those
00:31:59.139 --> 00:32:03.510
Blood moon books made a powerful case for the fact that
00:32:03.510 --> 00:32:09.216
The end was coming five or six years ago, and i knew people
00:32:09.316 --> 00:32:12.452
Who planned, mean, their estate planning, their financial
00:32:12.452 --> 00:32:16.890
Decisions, their decisions
00:32:16.890 --> 00:32:18.525
About having children-- my goodness.
00:32:18.525 --> 00:32:20.660
Were impacted by them becoming absolutely convinced that five
00:32:20.761 --> 00:32:24.264
Or six years ago was it.
00:32:24.264 --> 00:32:25.966
But i we've been through this cycle many, many times now.
00:32:26.066 --> 00:32:29.036
And here's the thing.
00:32:29.036 --> 00:32:30.804
If a certain set of assumptions leads to a conclusion or
00:32:30.904 --> 00:32:35.575
Conclusions that are over and over again wrong, it's time to
00:32:35.575 --> 00:32:40.180
Question your assumptions.
00:32:40.180 --> 00:32:41.014
You would think.
00:32:41.014 --> 00:32:43.417
Question the assumptions that are leading to these cases that
00:32:43.517 --> 00:32:46.453
Are being built because if they're wrong over and over and
00:32:46.453 --> 00:32:49.790
Over again, you've got some flawed assumptions about the
00:32:49.790 --> 00:32:53.026
Story the bible's telling.
00:32:53.026 --> 00:32:54.661
Mike, take off for a second, i wanna see if this is an
00:32:54.761 --> 00:32:59.633
Accurate way to kinda look at this that
00:32:59.633 --> 00:33:03.937
All of church history there were end-time people that had a
00:33:04.037 --> 00:33:09.576
Futurist view so they were always reading everything that
00:33:09.576 --> 00:33:12.412
This is the end times, certainly you know, the
00:33:12.412 --> 00:33:16.016
Crusades were the end times and then certainly this was the end
00:33:16.016 --> 00:33:19.186
Times and, you know, there was a lot of end time fever
00:33:19.186 --> 00:33:22.322
Throughout history.
00:33:22.322 --> 00:33:23.023
Plague in europe.
00:33:23.023 --> 00:33:24.391
But it was 1830 when dispensationalism was really
00:33:24.391 --> 00:33:28.528
Created by john darby and a prophetic word that had come
00:33:28.528 --> 00:33:31.932
Through a young lady that decided to take the whole
00:33:31.932 --> 00:33:37.204
Millennium and put it into the future.
00:33:37.304 --> 00:33:39.806
So that was all new.
00:33:39.906 --> 00:33:41.575
That was a brand new way of looking at eschatology that
00:33:41.575 --> 00:33:45.946
Nobody in church history had ever done.
00:33:45.946 --> 00:33:48.949
And i've read that he was largely agreeable to do that
00:33:49.049 --> 00:33:54.654
Because he had a lot of contention with catholic church
00:33:54.654 --> 00:33:57.757
And he didn't want to have to recognize them and their
00:33:57.757 --> 00:34:00.260
Corruption, as a legitimate member of the millennium,
00:34:00.260 --> 00:34:06.266
And of christ church.
00:34:06.266 --> 00:34:08.435
And so there was a brand new something and it turned into,
00:34:08.535 --> 00:34:14.074
Schofield putting notes in a bible and then largely being
00:34:15.275 --> 00:34:18.945
Adopted and then popularized in the 70's because of the
00:34:18.945 --> 00:34:23.450
Timing, because of a clocking, 1948, this
00:34:23.450 --> 00:34:27.287
Generation will not pass away.
00:34:27.287 --> 00:34:28.955
So eighty eight has to be the end and we all lived and we
00:34:28.955 --> 00:34:32.392
Were all young people in that fever.
00:34:32.392 --> 00:34:35.795
So that was something new that nobody had ever foreseen
00:34:35.896 --> 00:34:40.901
Prior to that time.
00:34:40.901 --> 00:34:41.434
Is that correct?
00:34:41.434 --> 00:34:43.370
Well, yeah.
00:34:43.770 --> 00:34:44.638
With the idea that
00:34:44.638 --> 00:34:47.140
There was a rapture that was going to take people
00:34:47.140 --> 00:34:51.144
Suddenly and then we avoid
00:34:51.144 --> 00:34:53.013
The tribulation, if that was your view,
00:34:53.013 --> 00:34:55.315
There have been predictions of the lord's coming since the
00:34:55.415 --> 00:35:00.820
First century that have never played out.
00:35:00.820 --> 00:35:03.023
The book that i'm working on currently, we've tracked,
00:35:03.023 --> 00:35:06.560
We've got researchers working on this.
00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:08.762
There's been more than 200 times through the last
00:35:08.762 --> 00:35:12.532
20 centuries where there was a specific prediction and
00:35:12.532 --> 00:35:16.069
Date that gained a sizable movement that jesus was coming.
00:35:16.069 --> 00:35:21.641
There are people as late as 100 years ago who gave
00:35:21.641 --> 00:35:24.811
Their entire fortune, i'm talking about multiple wealthy
00:35:24.811 --> 00:35:30.016
People and company owners, who gave everything away to predict
00:35:30.016 --> 00:35:36.323
A date of his coming and it didn't happen.
00:35:36.323 --> 00:35:39.059
I'm not sure why we don't understand, and as late as the
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:42.329
Blood moon that you just mentioned, i don't
00:35:42.329 --> 00:35:45.398
Understand why we don't
00:35:45.398 --> 00:35:47.500
Get a grip on the fact that we lose all credibility with the
00:35:48.768 --> 00:35:53.073
World when we keep doing this.
00:35:53.073 --> 00:35:54.908
And nobody gets a refund on their book.
00:35:54.908 --> 00:35:57.944
We predict these things and we sell books, and then it doesn't
00:35:57.944 --> 00:36:01.781
Happen, and then nobody gets a refund.
00:36:01.781 --> 00:36:04.684
This 88 reasons why jesus is coming in
00:36:04.684 --> 00:36:08.021
'88, i've pastored through that thing.
00:36:08.021 --> 00:36:10.423
Yeah.
00:36:10.523 --> 00:36:11.258
And had to calm people down.
00:36:11.258 --> 00:36:12.592
Yeah. and that, author of that book, who wasn't a man of the
00:36:12.592 --> 00:36:16.029
Cloth, he was an engineer as i understand it,
00:36:16.029 --> 00:36:17.931
He sold so many books that i understand he bought a massive
00:36:17.931 --> 00:36:22.035
Yacht and went to the bahamas and retired.
00:36:22.035 --> 00:36:24.437
But when jesus didn't come in '88, he wrote a book,
00:36:24.537 --> 00:36:27.807
He's coming in '89 because i missed one
00:36:27.907 --> 00:36:30.410
Calculation by a year and sold 300,000 more
00:36:30.410 --> 00:36:34.414
Of that one.
00:36:34.414 --> 00:36:35.615
At some point, it seems like why don't we understand
00:36:35.615 --> 00:36:40.186
That the bible is the best source?
00:36:40.287 --> 00:36:42.555
We have the ability to turn positives into negatives.
00:36:42.656 --> 00:36:46.526
That's another thing that's got me really excited is that, for
00:36:46.526 --> 00:36:49.562
Instance, i heard a weatherman predict recently, this is gonna
00:36:49.562 --> 00:36:53.566
Be of apocalyptic proportion.
00:36:53.566 --> 00:36:55.769
Wait a minute.
00:36:55.769 --> 00:36:56.536
Where did you get that word?
00:36:56.536 --> 00:36:58.171
When i was on the isle of patmos doing research, it's so
00:36:58.271 --> 00:37:01.775
Beautiful to see directional signs on the roads,
00:37:01.775 --> 00:37:05.679
Apocalyptus, and its directions to the cave because it's a
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:10.784
Positive word of the revelation of jesus.
00:37:10.784 --> 00:37:14.321
We've turned it into a word we
00:37:14.321 --> 00:37:16.389
Use when there's a hurricane coming.
00:37:16.389 --> 00:37:19.025
This is gonna be apocalyptic proportion.
00:37:19.025 --> 00:37:21.795
Apocalypsis is the revelation of jesus, and that's what the
00:37:21.895 --> 00:37:25.532
Whole book is about.
00:37:25.532 --> 00:37:26.633
That's right.
00:37:26.633 --> 00:37:27.867
And that's first what turned me sour, guys, on all of
00:37:27.867 --> 00:37:31.538
These predictive cataclysmic prophecies about his coming.
00:37:31.538 --> 00:37:36.543
It robs us of the victory.
00:37:36.643 --> 00:37:38.545
Thank you.
00:37:38.645 --> 00:37:39.279
This is a jesus victory.
00:37:39.279 --> 00:37:40.947
Wow. yeah.
00:37:40.947 --> 00:37:42.248
This is not the latest move by the russians and the nuclear
00:37:42.248 --> 00:37:45.552
Opportunity by the chinese.
00:37:45.652 --> 00:37:47.520
This is jesus bringing about a victory that we're a part of,
00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:52.292
And i wanna see as the body of christ, there are apparently
00:37:52.392 --> 00:37:56.029
Almost two billion people on the planet who claim christ
00:37:56.029 --> 00:37:59.899
To be their lord.
00:37:59.899 --> 00:38:01.668
That's enough people to move the needle.
00:38:01.768 --> 00:38:03.703
If we can engage them instead of disengage them to
00:38:03.703 --> 00:38:07.907
Wait on the eastern sky--
00:38:07.907 --> 00:38:09.509
Yes.
00:38:09.509 --> 00:38:10.744
If we can engage them in changing the culture. here's my
00:38:10.744 --> 00:38:14.514
Invitation now evangelistically in those days of early tbn, and
00:38:14.514 --> 00:38:18.885
I was there as a young guy
00:38:18.885 --> 00:38:21.187
That we're talking about.
00:38:21.788 --> 00:38:23.556
The invitation was hurry up, get in the ark, the door's
00:38:23.656 --> 00:38:26.893
About to close, the russians are marching, the antichrist's
00:38:26.893 --> 00:38:30.263
Alive somewhere.
00:38:30.263 --> 00:38:31.631
We're barely gonna get you in, but if you call tonight, we can
00:38:31.631 --> 00:38:35.034
Get you in the kingdom.
00:38:35.034 --> 00:38:36.436
So we scared some people in.
00:38:36.536 --> 00:38:38.705
I like this better invitation.
00:38:39.406 --> 00:38:41.307
I use it with people right now.
00:38:41.307 --> 00:38:43.476
Would you like to know about and join a kingdom led by jesus
00:38:43.576 --> 00:38:48.415
As the king of kings into a life of victory and joy that
00:38:48.415 --> 00:38:54.020
You can't even imagine, and you'll be filled with hope?
00:38:54.020 --> 00:38:57.424
And we're on the side that wins.
00:38:57.524 --> 00:39:00.560
And from here on, his kingdom is increasing a little bit
00:39:00.660 --> 00:39:04.564
Every day.
00:39:04.564 --> 00:39:05.465
You wanna join that kingdom and win?
00:39:05.465 --> 00:39:08.368
That's my invitation.
00:39:08.935 --> 00:39:10.270
Yeah, that's so good.
00:39:10.270 --> 00:39:12.605
And that kingdom operates on a love that can't fail.
00:39:12.705 --> 00:39:17.544
It will never stop and it never fails.
00:39:17.644 --> 00:39:21.181
And it's also predicated on a message that the bible says
00:39:21.281 --> 00:39:25.785
Once you speak it, it will not
00:39:25.785 --> 00:39:28.922
Return to god without accomplishing.
00:39:29.022 --> 00:39:31.658
So every time we preach the message of the kingdom with
00:39:31.758 --> 00:39:34.928
Jesus being the center of the king and his finished work
00:39:34.928 --> 00:39:38.064
Being the issue, every time we do that, we start a wave on the
00:39:38.064 --> 00:39:43.570
Ocean of time that never stops
00:39:43.570 --> 00:39:46.072
For eternity.
00:39:46.072 --> 00:39:48.007
We are on the winning side.
00:39:48.007 --> 00:39:51.144
And
00:39:51.144 --> 00:39:52.245
Here's the deal,
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:54.581
There's never been a competition with light and
00:39:54.681 --> 00:39:58.017
Darkness that light didn't win.
00:39:58.017 --> 00:39:59.853
That's right.
00:40:00.286 --> 00:40:01.254
We're five zillion to zero is the record.
00:40:01.354 --> 00:40:06.125
Dudley, if i could just say, that's the revelation.
00:40:07.260 --> 00:40:10.763
It seem like that big a deal at all.
00:40:10.763 --> 00:40:14.167
But two years ago, the first time i went to the island of
00:40:14.267 --> 00:40:16.803
Patmos and i stayed there three weeks, i wanted to hear god.
00:40:16.803 --> 00:40:20.673
And i came back and somebody said, what was your revelation?
00:40:20.773 --> 00:40:24.911
Because i mean, i spent time in the cave where he wrote i did
00:40:24.911 --> 00:40:27.680
All of that.
00:40:27.680 --> 00:40:29.015
I got one word that i feel like the lord touched my heart with,
00:40:29.115 --> 00:40:32.785
But it's huge.
00:40:32.886 --> 00:40:33.887
It doesn't seem that cataclysmic.
00:40:33.887 --> 00:40:35.788
But here's the word that came to me in the cave on patmos.
00:40:35.889 --> 00:40:39.926
Darkness is not a force.
00:40:40.026 --> 00:40:41.995
Mhmm. beautiful.
00:40:42.529 --> 00:40:43.897
Yeah. light is a force.
00:40:43.897 --> 00:40:45.765
Light is a force.
00:40:45.765 --> 00:40:46.900
Darkness is not a force.
00:40:46.900 --> 00:40:48.401
Mhmm. yeah.
00:40:48.401 --> 00:40:49.802
A five-year-old child can turn on a flashlight and defeat
00:40:49.802 --> 00:40:53.072
Darkness because it is not a force.
00:40:53.072 --> 00:40:54.807
We're giving way too much respect to the kingdom of
00:40:54.807 --> 00:40:58.411
Darkness and the leaders of it as though they are a force
00:40:58.411 --> 00:41:02.649
Where if jesus stubs his toe and trips up for a moment,
00:41:02.649 --> 00:41:07.153
We're gonna lose.
00:41:07.153 --> 00:41:07.887
Darkness is not a force.
00:41:08.454 --> 00:41:09.656
In a second, pastor, let's do what we always do.
00:41:09.656 --> 00:41:14.193
Let's lead people to jesus and do that.
00:41:14.193 --> 00:41:17.697
But i'll, i'll do a little tv for you in regard to the
00:41:17.697 --> 00:41:22.535
Word that you got,
00:41:22.535 --> 00:41:23.836
That darkness is not a force.
00:41:24.537 --> 00:41:26.673
There was, before we sat down in this location,
00:41:27.674 --> 00:41:33.246
Someone walked in here and had a little handheld meter
00:41:34.414 --> 00:41:39.052
In their hand.
00:41:39.052 --> 00:41:39.886
They were not measuring darkness.
00:41:39.986 --> 00:41:41.921
They were measuring light.
00:41:42.555 --> 00:41:44.290
So light is the measurable force, okay?
00:41:44.390 --> 00:41:49.095
And darkness in essence doesn't exist the same moment as light
00:41:49.195 --> 00:41:57.070
And there is no darkness meter but there is a light meter.
00:41:57.070 --> 00:41:59.939
And they put it up and they see how much light so the cameras
00:41:59.939 --> 00:42:04.410
Get set in the right way and the right aperture and all that
00:42:04.410 --> 00:42:08.281
Kind of stuff that happens and f stop.
00:42:08.281 --> 00:42:11.150
And so there is even in just regular nature, okay, there's
00:42:11.150 --> 00:42:17.924
Confirmation that darkness doesn't exist. it's the absence
00:42:17.924 --> 00:42:22.261
Of light and, we're inviting people to that right now.
00:42:22.261 --> 00:42:25.932
Go ahead, just write into your camera.
00:42:25.932 --> 00:42:27.934
I'm enjoying this talk so much and for those of you who are
00:42:28.034 --> 00:42:31.304
Viewing, thank you matt for the opportunity.
00:42:31.304 --> 00:42:33.573
And i the only kind of invitation i know to give is
00:42:33.573 --> 00:42:37.644
Is one that i have to tell you
00:42:37.644 --> 00:42:39.512
Is the most victorious move decision that
00:42:39.512 --> 00:42:43.483
I ever made in my life because
00:42:43.483 --> 00:42:44.784
It is a joining of the winning side.
00:42:44.784 --> 00:42:48.054
Honestly, what led me into this whole eschatological journey is
00:42:48.154 --> 00:42:53.559
I wasn't content with what sounded like losing to me.
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:58.431
The message i received as a boy growing up in church
00:42:58.531 --> 00:43:01.501
Was, and this is my translation, god had great
00:43:02.535 --> 00:43:06.039
Plans for us.
00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:06.773
He made us.
00:43:06.773 --> 00:43:07.440
He put us here.
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:08.141
Then the devil came.
00:43:08.141 --> 00:43:09.409
Then he messed it all up.
00:43:09.509 --> 00:43:11.544
And jesus came and died for our sins, and those who believe
00:43:11.644 --> 00:43:14.914
Will be saved, but we can't win.
00:43:14.914 --> 00:43:17.450
The plan was that jesus was gonna walk and talk with us in
00:43:17.450 --> 00:43:21.387
A perfect and beautiful world, but we've lost it all.
00:43:21.387 --> 00:43:24.557
So we gotta take our ball somewhere else and play.
00:43:24.557 --> 00:43:27.427
So he's gonna take us to heaven, and the earth's gonna
00:43:27.427 --> 00:43:30.163
Be blown to hell and destroyed.
00:43:30.163 --> 00:43:32.031
That just felt too much like losing to me.
00:43:32.031 --> 00:43:34.267
Mhmm. and when i started looking at the full picture
00:43:34.267 --> 00:43:37.036
Plan of god, it's not as much about us going to heaven.
00:43:37.036 --> 00:43:41.674
It's about jesus being welcomed back to earth, because we have
00:43:41.774 --> 00:43:46.646
Created such a broad way for
00:43:46.646 --> 00:43:49.515
Him to come and resurrect everything.
00:43:49.515 --> 00:43:52.585
You know, what you may need in your life is what i needed and
00:43:52.685 --> 00:43:55.521
All of us needed.
00:43:55.521 --> 00:43:56.456
You need resurrection in your life.
00:43:56.456 --> 00:43:58.257
Mhmm. and the god is the only force that i know that can take
00:43:58.257 --> 00:44:02.762
What is dead and over and resurrect it.
00:44:02.762 --> 00:44:06.899
That's what he did with jesus, and that's what he's gonna do
00:44:06.899 --> 00:44:09.902
With the whole world, and that's what he could do with
00:44:09.902 --> 00:44:12.905
You right now.
00:44:12.905 --> 00:44:14.307
So instead of running toward jesus for an experience because
00:44:14.407 --> 00:44:18.010
You're afraid of something, and there's a lot to be afraid of,
00:44:18.010 --> 00:44:21.314
But that's not the best motivation.
00:44:21.414 --> 00:44:23.416
The best motivation is you're gonna come into a relationship
00:44:23.516 --> 00:44:26.686
With the king of all kings, the most loving god you've ever
00:44:26.786 --> 00:44:30.156
Met, and he's gonna take you into relationship, and then you
00:44:30.156 --> 00:44:33.893
Are what we call saved.
00:44:33.893 --> 00:44:36.696
Saved for what?
00:44:37.163 --> 00:44:39.165
Get on this army with us.
00:44:39.265 --> 00:44:41.300
Get on this bus with us, and let's change the world, man.
00:44:41.300 --> 00:44:44.537
Let's move the needle toward light and toward good and
00:44:44.537 --> 00:44:48.174
Toward restoration.
00:44:48.174 --> 00:44:49.909
There is given to us, paul said, the ministry of
00:44:50.009 --> 00:44:54.781
Reconciliation, reconciling god and man.
00:44:54.781 --> 00:44:58.184
And then three or four verses later, he says, and there's
00:44:58.184 --> 00:45:01.287
Given to you the word of reconciliation.
00:45:01.287 --> 00:45:04.524
Yeah. i'm gonna take that.
00:45:04.524 --> 00:45:06.192
I've got a word of reconciliation.
00:45:06.192 --> 00:45:08.795
You could be reconciled to god right now through jesus, and
00:45:08.895 --> 00:45:12.799
I'd like to lead you in that prayer if you would.
00:45:12.799 --> 00:45:14.801
Would you join me?
00:45:14.801 --> 00:45:16.702
Father, i thank you for sending jesus as the savior of the
00:45:16.803 --> 00:45:21.507
World, and we know that there's a day you're going to return,
00:45:21.507 --> 00:45:25.311
And we're gonna rule and reign with you in total victory, and
00:45:25.411 --> 00:45:28.414
Darkness will be banished.
00:45:28.414 --> 00:45:30.183
I wanna welcome my friend that has joined me in this prayer
00:45:30.283 --> 00:45:33.452
Right now, lord, to your new kingdom.
00:45:33.452 --> 00:45:36.422
And you said all they had to do was confess with their mouth
00:45:36.522 --> 00:45:40.660
And believe in their heart the
00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:42.328
Lord jesus, and they would be saved.
00:45:42.328 --> 00:45:45.565
So say that now my friend.
00:45:45.665 --> 00:45:47.400
Lord jesus, come into my heart.
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:50.303
I believe in you.
00:45:50.770 --> 00:45:52.438
Welcome me to the winning side
00:45:53.139 --> 00:45:55.074
And the rest of my life i serve you.
00:45:55.074 --> 00:45:57.977
In jesus' name, i am saved.
00:45:58.644 --> 00:46:02.515
Amen. amen.
00:46:02.515 --> 00:46:03.649
Well, welcome to the kingdom.
00:46:03.649 --> 00:46:05.885
You know, the we we've been
00:46:05.885 --> 00:46:07.787
Doing that for 52 years now.
00:46:07.787 --> 00:46:09.789
Thank you, mike.
00:46:09.789 --> 00:46:11.057
David, your final thoughts on this episode of kinda what
00:46:11.057 --> 00:46:15.761
We're discussing here, just your final thoughts and then
00:46:15.761 --> 00:46:19.532
David i'll give you the final
00:46:19.532 --> 00:46:20.566
Words since you're the old guy here.
00:46:20.566 --> 00:46:22.401
Yeah, thank you, dave.
00:46:22.401 --> 00:46:23.135
Yeah.
00:46:23.135 --> 00:46:24.637
The story really is about jesus.
00:46:25.404 --> 00:46:27.173
Yeah. jesus is the center of the story.
00:46:27.273 --> 00:46:30.977
After the resurrection and right before the ascension,
00:46:31.077 --> 00:46:34.180
Jesus looked at his disciples, we all know the great
00:46:34.180 --> 00:46:36.182
Commission, right?
00:46:36.182 --> 00:46:37.516
But he said some things right before he said, go therefore.
00:46:37.516 --> 00:46:40.920
One of the things he said is, all of, everything that is
00:46:41.020 --> 00:46:45.024
Written about me in the law and the prophets and the psalms has
00:46:45.024 --> 00:46:48.694
Been fulfilled.
00:46:48.694 --> 00:46:49.662
Wow. that's the entire old testament.
00:46:49.662 --> 00:46:51.530
The law and the prophets and the psalms has been fulfilled.
00:46:51.530 --> 00:46:55.701
Then he said, all authority in
00:46:55.801 --> 00:46:58.537
Heaven and on earth is now mine.
00:46:58.537 --> 00:47:01.173
Whatever legal stuff that had to be done, whatever the cosmic
00:47:01.274 --> 00:47:05.778
Heavenly judicial work that had to be done to restore the
00:47:05.778 --> 00:47:11.284
Authority over the planet earth to mankind had been done.
00:47:11.284 --> 00:47:15.054
And then he said, go therefore into all the world and then
00:47:15.054 --> 00:47:19.692
Make disciples.
00:47:19.692 --> 00:47:21.060
And then he ascended and he sat down at the right hand of the
00:47:21.060 --> 00:47:23.663
Father, and according to hebrews 10:12, he's
00:47:23.663 --> 00:47:27.199
Sitting there, remains there waiting until his enemies are
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:31.270
Made a footstool for his feet.
00:47:31.270 --> 00:47:32.538
Final thought.
00:47:32.538 --> 00:47:35.207
Yeah, and sitting there, he sent the holy spirit to
00:47:35.207 --> 00:47:40.279
Indwell his new body.
00:47:40.279 --> 00:47:41.681
Yes.
00:47:41.681 --> 00:47:42.915
His new temple, his mobile temple, so that nobody would
00:47:42.915 --> 00:47:45.785
Ever have to go back to jerusalem to go to a temple.
00:47:45.785 --> 00:47:48.521
Yes. this temple is going through the whole world.
00:47:48.521 --> 00:47:50.656
Yes. and every believer becomes a living stone in that temple.
00:47:50.656 --> 00:47:56.963
And they partners now with christ in claiming all that his
00:47:57.063 --> 00:48:05.404
Blood paid for, which not only includes people, it includes
00:48:05.404 --> 00:48:10.443
Everything he created. yes.
00:48:10.443 --> 00:48:12.011
And so we are on a journey
00:48:12.011 --> 00:48:16.549
That's going to culminate one day when jesus comes back,
00:48:16.649 --> 00:48:20.586
Which we all believe in.
00:48:21.153 --> 00:48:23.055
And in that culmination, he's going to make all wrongs right.
00:48:23.055 --> 00:48:28.194
And he's going to take all sadness
00:48:28.194 --> 00:48:32.231
And make it a myth.
00:48:32.765 --> 00:48:34.433
And so jesus is the center, and as i said earlier,
00:48:35.534 --> 00:48:42.008
It's not nations,
00:48:42.008 --> 00:48:43.376
And it's not laws, and it's not covenants, and not principles,
00:48:43.376 --> 00:48:46.045
And it's not sensational stuff.
00:48:46.145 --> 00:48:48.914
It's simply jesus.
00:48:49.015 --> 00:48:50.149
And if you don't
00:48:50.149 --> 00:48:52.918
Know the exalted, risen jesus through the person of the holy
00:48:54.186 --> 00:48:58.157
Spirit, you're basically living an atheistic life.
00:48:58.157 --> 00:49:02.028
You're living as if he did not exist.
00:49:02.028 --> 00:49:04.663
But because he exists, we can
00:49:04.764 --> 00:49:07.933
Know him and we are his partners.
00:49:07.933 --> 00:49:10.302
And it changes everything.
00:49:10.403 --> 00:49:12.071
It changes prayer, for instance.
00:49:12.772 --> 00:49:14.407
I used to pray a lot, begging god to do stuff and telling god
00:49:14.407 --> 00:49:18.644
Things like, please.
00:49:18.644 --> 00:49:21.180
One time the lord said to me, he's like, you don't have to
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:23.649
Say please to me?
00:49:23.649 --> 00:49:25.618
I want to give it more than you want it.
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:28.654
Praying as a partner, like, okay god, i'm in the middle of
00:49:29.889 --> 00:49:32.391
This darkness and i need some heavenly support.
00:49:32.391 --> 00:49:35.161
So i pray, and like the book of revelation says, i send up the
00:49:35.161 --> 00:49:38.664
Incense, the angel takes it and mixes it with the altar, fire
00:49:38.664 --> 00:49:42.034
From the altar, flings it back to the earth as thunder and
00:49:42.034 --> 00:49:45.438
Lightning and earthquakes.
00:49:45.438 --> 00:49:47.440
So if i've got partnership with a god who will do that, then
00:49:47.540 --> 00:49:52.511
What's gonna scare me on this earth?
00:49:52.511 --> 00:49:55.247
No darkness.
00:49:55.648 --> 00:49:56.449
Right. because we win.
00:49:56.449 --> 00:49:59.018
Amen.
00:49:59.018 --> 00:50:00.052
I think it's easier said, we won.
00:50:00.152 --> 00:50:02.154
It is finished.
00:50:02.154 --> 00:50:03.422
Absolutely. a victorious eschatology is kind of our
00:50:03.522 --> 00:50:08.260
Point here that we are looking forward to this
00:50:08.260 --> 00:50:11.263
Stone that becomes a mountain fills the whole earth, and you
00:50:12.531 --> 00:50:17.903
Think about, history, twelve disciples, there's two billion
00:50:17.903 --> 00:50:22.007
Christians and growing.
00:50:22.007 --> 00:50:23.409
It's expanding every day, it's victorious.
00:50:23.409 --> 00:50:25.644
Thank you guys.
00:50:25.644 --> 00:50:26.846
Appreciate it.
00:50:26.946 --> 00:50:27.780
We'll see you next time.
00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:28.881
Bye bye.
00:50:29.181 --> 00:50:39.859
♪♪
00:50:39.859 --> 00:50:39.859

Mike Hayes, David Holland, & Dudley Hall: The Glorious Hope of Bible Prophecy | Praise

May 15, 2025 | 50:45

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