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N.T. Wright: Future Glory, Present Hope | Praise

October 23, 2025 | 60:6

N.T. Wright: Future Glory, Present Hope | Praise
Hosted by TBN’s own Matt and Laurie Crouch along with other popular personalities, Praise features the best in contemporary Christian music and worship, fresh and impacting ministry voices, engaging interviews from a wide variety of guests, and a fast-moving hour of relevant talk you won’t want to miss!
#Author #Theology #Eschatology #Rapture #EndTimes #SecondComing #Tribulation #Bible #Culture #Hope #Future #KingdomofGod #Church

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Praise | N.T. Wright: Future Glory, Present Hope | Praise | October 23, 2025
  • That i may be the last living man on earth.
  • 00:00:00.023 --> 00:00:02.192
  • Day of judgment is going to come.
  • 00:00:02.192 --> 00:00:07.897
  • There will be signs in sun and moon and stars.
  • 00:00:08.865 --> 00:00:12.368
  • Some of the signs of the end times.
  • 00:00:12.368 --> 00:00:14.370
  • The antichrist.
  • 00:00:14.370 --> 00:00:15.405
  • The rapture will come and christ will return.
  • 00:00:15.405 --> 00:00:18.041
  • The world can receive the mark and worship the beast.
  • 00:00:18.041 --> 00:00:21.377
  • Those who resisted were sent to the guillotine.
  • 00:00:21.377 --> 00:00:26.683
  • I. predict
  • 00:00:26.983 --> 00:00:29.853
  • What's going to happen to the planet over the next 150 years.
  • 00:00:29.853 --> 00:00:33.723
  • Some people believe that this is the judgment of god
  • 00:00:33.723 --> 00:00:36.459
  • On an ungodly world.
  • 00:00:36.459 --> 00:00:40.029
  • According to biblical prophecy, each of these events
  • 00:00:40.029 --> 00:00:42.799
  • Will take place only when israel is a jewish nation.
  • 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:46.369
  • The final tribulation period is an expression
  • 00:00:46.369 --> 00:00:49.439
  • Of the wrath of god against an unbelieving world that occurs.
  • 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:53.409
  • I'm convinced after the rapture of the church
  • 00:00:53.409 --> 00:00:56.112
  • 88 reasons why the rapture will be in 1988.
  • 00:00:56.112 --> 00:00:59.382
  • Bookstores report they sold like hotcakes.
  • 00:00:59.382 --> 00:01:01.951
  • The rapture, the church which wants to take place
  • 00:01:01.951 --> 00:01:04.420
  • And buying and anybody that sets dates.
  • 00:01:04.420 --> 00:01:07.323
  • It's been happening for hundreds of years.
  • 00:01:07.323 --> 00:01:10.093
  • And when are christians going to wake up?
  • 00:01:10.093 --> 00:01:11.995
  • Things will get better, grandma.
  • 00:01:11.995 --> 00:01:13.229
  • They always do,
  • 00:01:13.229 --> 00:01:14.430
  • But they're going to get a lot worse before they get better.
  • 00:01:14.430 --> 00:01:22.805
  • Rapture is one of those things that you must be prepared for.
  • 00:01:23.940 --> 00:01:27.810
  • Otherwise, you're going to be left behind.
  • 00:01:27.810 --> 00:01:29.546
  • You've been left behind.
  • 00:01:29.546 --> 00:01:32.782
  • The massively successful left behind series of books
  • 00:01:32.782 --> 00:01:36.119
  • Which helped popularize the idea of the end of the world.
  • 00:01:36.119 --> 00:01:39.222
  • The apocalypse, the rapture, even the antichrist.
  • 00:01:39.222 --> 00:01:42.659
  • We're stocking up just in case
  • 00:01:42.659 --> 00:01:45.428
  • You need to know that for two.
  • 00:01:45.428 --> 00:01:52.402
  • And the world seem to still be intact.
  • 00:01:53.236 --> 00:01:55.972
  • Nothing major.
  • 00:01:55.972 --> 00:01:57.273
  • A new judgment day, to be honest.
  • 00:01:57.273 --> 00:02:00.410
  • Harold camping made a lot of excuses about what happened.
  • 00:02:00.410 --> 00:02:03.413
  • They're making a mockery of christianity.
  • 00:02:03.413 --> 00:02:06.049
  • I was wrong.
  • 00:02:06.049 --> 00:02:08.418
  • Give us science for the coming of the end of the age.
  • 00:02:07.350 --> 00:02:12.555
  • New caption
  • 00:02:12.555 --> 00:02:13.189
  • Vomit used to anti-christ.
  • 00:02:13.189 --> 00:02:14.190
  • Obama is antichrist.
  • 00:02:14.190 --> 00:02:16.025
  • Ancient mayan prophecy.
  • 00:02:16.025 --> 00:02:17.327
  • The world will end in late 2012.
  • 00:02:17.327 --> 00:02:19.629
  • Post rapture, pet care friendly atheists will be alerted
  • 00:02:19.629 --> 00:02:23.199
  • And come to your house and take your pets.
  • 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:25.335
  • None of us got picked and we're all screwed.
  • 00:02:25.335 --> 00:02:27.136
  • Or great. and i'm gonna go fishing this summer.
  • 00:02:27.136 --> 00:02:32.909
  • Rapture
  • 00:02:33.142 --> 00:02:34.177
  • Theology, this interest in war and the violence.
  • 00:02:34.177 --> 00:02:36.746
  • The end times seems to have an almost addictive power
  • 00:02:36.746 --> 00:02:40.016
  • In our culture.
  • 00:02:40.016 --> 00:02:43.486
  • First
  • 00:02:43.720 --> 00:03:12.749
  • Wow. that means we're going
  • 00:03:13.349 --> 00:03:15.818
  • To get raptured right?
  • 00:03:15.818 --> 00:03:18.955
  • No, never meant that.
  • 00:03:18.955 --> 00:03:22.392
  • My whole life i've heard about the end of days.
  • 00:03:22.392 --> 00:03:26.262
  • How no one knows the day or the hour.
  • 00:03:27.063 --> 00:03:30.466
  • How it will happen in the twinkling of an eye.
  • 00:03:30.466 --> 00:03:33.236
  • But is that what it's really saying?
  • 00:03:34.003 --> 00:03:37.340
  • One day is a very young believer.
  • 00:03:37.340 --> 00:03:39.309
  • Somebody handed me a chick tract,
  • 00:03:39.309 --> 00:03:42.345
  • And it was all about the end times.
  • 00:03:42.345 --> 00:03:45.181
  • The antichrist, six, six, six people being decapitated.
  • 00:03:45.181 --> 00:03:50.119
  • The rapture.
  • 00:03:50.119 --> 00:03:51.154
  • The pope was evil
  • 00:03:51.154 --> 00:03:52.655
  • And there were scripture references throughout.
  • 00:03:52.655 --> 00:03:55.391
  • It seemed like the message was designed by a torturous god
  • 00:03:55.391 --> 00:04:00.663
  • To catch the most of us off guard as possible,
  • 00:04:00.663 --> 00:04:04.400
  • Take the fewest with him and the rest of us go to hell.
  • 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:08.071
  • That doctrine scared me to death.
  • 00:04:08.071 --> 00:04:10.473
  • Is our planet truly in mortal peril?
  • 00:04:10.473 --> 00:04:14.377
  • Can that really be any substance
  • 00:04:15.011 --> 00:04:17.013
  • Through all those biblical prophecies?
  • 00:04:17.013 --> 00:04:18.948
  • I believe with all my heart
  • 00:04:18.948 --> 00:04:20.650
  • That that's not the story your bible is telling.
  • 00:04:20.650 --> 00:04:22.919
  • In the famous passage
  • 00:04:22.919 --> 00:04:24.320
  • In first thessalonians for which people have built
  • 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:26.956
  • The rapture theory on.
  • 00:04:26.956 --> 00:04:28.725
  • That's actually a misunderstanding.
  • 00:04:28.725 --> 00:04:30.593
  • This false promise
  • 00:04:30.593 --> 00:04:32.662
  • That somehow we were going to be caught away,
  • 00:04:32.662 --> 00:04:35.732
  • And then the world was going to go to hell in a handbasket.
  • 00:04:35.732 --> 00:04:39.035
  • And, it's just not in scripture.
  • 00:04:39.035 --> 00:04:41.070
  • I'm terrible.
  • 00:04:41.070 --> 00:04:42.038
  • The end of the world
  • 00:04:42.038 --> 00:04:43.072
  • Has come and gone more than once in my lifetime.
  • 00:04:43.072 --> 00:04:46.175
  • I've heard the warnings.
  • 00:04:46.709 --> 00:04:48.511
  • I've seen the signs.
  • 00:04:48.511 --> 00:04:49.712
  • I've watched the movies.
  • 00:04:49.712 --> 00:04:51.814
  • And i've feared being left behind.
  • 00:04:51.814 --> 00:04:54.751
  • My daughter came to me one day and said.
  • 00:04:54.751 --> 00:04:56.319
  • Dad, i just finished reading revelations
  • 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.389
  • And she said, and it's scary.
  • 00:04:59.389 --> 00:05:01.624
  • Is all that stuff going to happen?
  • 00:05:01.624 --> 00:05:04.327
  • A lot of us christians sit in our pews
  • 00:05:04.327 --> 00:05:07.897
  • And these
  • 00:05:07.897 --> 00:05:09.098
  • Great and wonderful people that we follow, that we love,
  • 00:05:09.098 --> 00:05:12.702
  • Have told us things that just will not match up
  • 00:05:12.702 --> 00:05:15.838
  • To an honest and sincere test of scripture.
  • 00:05:15.838 --> 00:05:18.474
  • We've been brainwashed.
  • 00:05:18.474 --> 00:05:18.541
  • There is nothing more to overcome.
  • 00:05:19.308 --> 00:05:20.777
  • I don't need you. you don't need.
  • 00:05:20.777 --> 00:05:22.478
  • We don't need to be rescued.
  • 00:05:22.478 --> 00:05:24.680
  • Rescued from what
  • 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:26.949
  • Tonight.
  • 00:05:27.216 --> 00:05:28.418
  • On praise, join matt and laurie crouch with special guest.
  • 00:05:28.418 --> 00:05:31.387
  • Nt wright,
  • 00:05:31.387 --> 00:05:32.588
  • The most respected new testament scholar in the world.
  • 00:05:32.588 --> 00:05:36.159
  • Jesus already redefines kingship.
  • 00:05:36.926 --> 00:05:41.097
  • He redefines it on the cross.
  • 00:05:41.097 --> 00:05:43.266
  • King of the jews above his head.
  • 00:05:43.266 --> 00:05:45.101
  • This is what royalty looks like.
  • 00:05:45.101 --> 00:05:46.702
  • Because the son of man came to give his life.
  • 00:05:46.702 --> 00:05:49.272
  • N.t. wright has been called the c.s.
  • 00:05:49.272 --> 00:05:51.240
  • Lewis of our generation.
  • 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:52.708
  • He is also the bestselling author of nearly 100 books,
  • 00:05:52.708 --> 00:05:55.945
  • Including surprised by hope and simply good news.
  • 00:05:55.945 --> 00:05:59.515
  • For god to be king means god is going
  • 00:06:00.316 --> 00:06:03.820
  • To sort everything out on earth as in heaven.
  • 00:06:03.820 --> 00:06:07.123
  • Heaven is not the place to escape from earth and heaven.
  • 00:06:08.191 --> 00:06:11.461
  • It's the place from which earth is run.
  • 00:06:11.461 --> 00:06:13.963
  • And one day heaven and earth will come together.
  • 00:06:13.963 --> 00:06:18.000
  • We don't bring the kingdom by our own efforts.
  • 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.770
  • God brings god's kingdom in god's way.
  • 00:06:20.770 --> 00:06:23.506
  • Jesus coming to be with us is not a temporary thing.
  • 00:06:23.506 --> 00:06:26.976
  • That was god. god's coming home.
  • 00:06:26.976 --> 00:06:29.979
  • This is what the kingdom of god happening in the present
  • 00:06:29.979 --> 00:06:33.049
  • Looks like.
  • 00:06:33.049 --> 00:06:36.953
  • Would a clap help?
  • 00:06:37.386 --> 00:06:38.387
  • Yeah. sure. okay.
  • 00:06:38.387 --> 00:06:41.390
  • He is a prominent theologian and scholar, but n.t.
  • 00:06:41.390 --> 00:06:44.560
  • Wright is not some dusty
  • 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:45.962
  • Academic poring over books in a dimly lit library.
  • 00:06:45.962 --> 00:06:48.998
  • He is accessible. he is compassionate.
  • 00:06:48.998 --> 00:06:51.667
  • Young people line up for hours to meet him, to hear him preach,
  • 00:06:51.667 --> 00:06:55.938
  • To get their copies of his book signed.
  • 00:06:55.938 --> 00:06:58.407
  • He is stopped on the street by those who say his words
  • 00:06:58.407 --> 00:07:01.177
  • Have changed their lives.
  • 00:07:01.177 --> 00:07:02.612
  • Somehow he has managed to do the impossible.
  • 00:07:02.612 --> 00:07:05.314
  • He is both a serious theologian and a kind hearted pastor.
  • 00:07:05.314 --> 00:07:08.985
  • Even when he was told
  • 00:07:08.985 --> 00:07:10.219
  • He would have to choose between the two.
  • 00:07:10.219 --> 00:07:13.689
  • Doctor wright has multiple degrees
  • 00:07:13.689 --> 00:07:15.625
  • From oxford university, including two doctoral degrees.
  • 00:07:15.625 --> 00:07:18.895
  • He's taught at mcgill university in montreal,
  • 00:07:18.895 --> 00:07:21.831
  • Oxford university and saint andrews in scotland.
  • 00:07:21.831 --> 00:07:25.601
  • And while he's been
  • 00:07:26.068 --> 00:07:27.169
  • Called the rock star theologian of our generation,
  • 00:07:27.169 --> 00:07:30.072
  • He is also a man of the cloth, a man of the people.
  • 00:07:30.072 --> 00:07:33.876
  • He was ordained as an anglican priest in 1976
  • 00:07:33.876 --> 00:07:37.346
  • And has served as the bishop of durham,
  • 00:07:37.346 --> 00:07:39.348
  • One of the highest positions in the church of england.
  • 00:07:39.348 --> 00:07:42.718
  • Even as a bishop, he could be found ministering
  • 00:07:42.718 --> 00:07:45.154
  • In the poorest neighborhoods of the united kingdom.
  • 00:07:45.154 --> 00:07:48.591
  • These days, doctor
  • 00:07:48.591 --> 00:07:49.759
  • Wright continues to write and speak and teach.
  • 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:53.563
  • He is a senior research fellow at wycliffe university, oxford.
  • 00:07:53.563 --> 00:07:57.833
  • N.t. wright's dual callings have become his legacy.
  • 00:07:57.833 --> 00:08:01.070
  • A scholar with a heart of flesh,
  • 00:08:01.070 --> 00:08:03.105
  • A pastor with the firmest of foundations.
  • 00:08:03.105 --> 00:08:06.542
  • The end result, says christianity today magazine,
  • 00:08:06.542 --> 00:08:09.345
  • Is this.
  • 00:08:09.345 --> 00:08:10.279
  • When nt wright speaks, preaches or writes,
  • 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:13.583
  • Folks say they see jesus and lives are transformed.
  • 00:08:13.583 --> 00:08:22.525
  • Brother nt
  • 00:08:22.825 --> 00:08:23.759
  • Wright, please tell us where we are today.
  • 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.729
  • We are here in the wonderful lanier theological library
  • 00:08:26.729 --> 00:08:30.266
  • And the brainchild of mark lanier beautiful.
  • 00:08:30.266 --> 00:08:33.169
  • Put this all together over the last decade or two.
  • 00:08:33.169 --> 00:08:35.271
  • You see, your books everywhere?
  • 00:08:35.271 --> 00:08:37.406
  • Yes. it's awesome.
  • 00:08:37.406 --> 00:08:39.408
  • You know, let's,
  • 00:08:39.408 --> 00:08:40.476
  • Do something right out of the gate here on praise.
  • 00:08:40.476 --> 00:08:44.213
  • First of all, welcome to houston, texas.
  • 00:08:44.213 --> 00:08:46.849
  • Thank you.
  • 00:08:46.849 --> 00:08:47.483
  • We're going to get into
  • 00:08:47.483 --> 00:08:50.653
  • Some eschatology matters.
  • 00:08:50.653 --> 00:08:53.689
  • And but before we get kind of
  • 00:08:53.689 --> 00:08:57.326
  • Right into the nitty gritty with some, you know, actually
  • 00:08:57.326 --> 00:09:00.529
  • Prepared questions, which i don't normally do,
  • 00:09:00.529 --> 00:09:03.299
  • But i thought
  • 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:04.467
  • Because i was coming to this theological library here,
  • 00:09:04.467 --> 00:09:07.837
  • The lanier
  • 00:09:07.837 --> 00:09:09.138
  • Theological library,
  • 00:09:09.138 --> 00:09:10.306
  • That i thought i would actually put some questions down.
  • 00:09:10.306 --> 00:09:14.076
  • But let's start with this kind of overview.
  • 00:09:14.076 --> 00:09:18.347
  • You were telling me that western christianity
  • 00:09:18.347 --> 00:09:24.654
  • Adopted some
  • 00:09:24.987 --> 00:09:27.923
  • Dispensationalism,
  • 00:09:27.923 --> 00:09:30.059
  • Eschatology theories,
  • 00:09:30.059 --> 00:09:33.329
  • And we are a bit alone
  • 00:09:33.329 --> 00:09:36.298
  • In the world in that we
  • 00:09:36.298 --> 00:09:39.268
  • We came to the conclusion together that one of our main
  • 00:09:39.268 --> 00:09:44.674
  • People that had a tv show on tbn for many, many years was hal
  • 00:09:44.674 --> 00:09:48.577
  • Lindsay, who wrote late great planet earth, who largely
  • 00:09:48.577 --> 00:09:53.049
  • Was responsible for bringing a fervor
  • 00:09:53.849 --> 00:09:57.319
  • Of dispensational,
  • 00:09:57.319 --> 00:10:00.189
  • You know, theo theology because of the timing,
  • 00:10:00.189 --> 00:10:04.026
  • 1948, israel became a nation, generation.
  • 00:10:04.026 --> 00:10:08.497
  • All these things will be fulfilled
  • 00:10:08.497 --> 00:10:10.199
  • If you read the bible as a futurist.
  • 00:10:10.199 --> 00:10:13.035
  • If you take most of revelation
  • 00:10:13.035 --> 00:10:15.404
  • And most of the all of it discourse
  • 00:10:15.404 --> 00:10:17.006
  • And some of daniel and, and and take it into the future,
  • 00:10:17.006 --> 00:10:21.043
  • Which i would have to largely say nt
  • 00:10:21.043 --> 00:10:24.480
  • Is the majority likely of the people viewing right now.
  • 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:29.485
  • Yeah. yeah. so let's
  • 00:10:29.485 --> 00:10:31.754
  • Be kind.
  • 00:10:32.021 --> 00:10:33.022
  • But but direct, in regard to what you're
  • 00:10:33.022 --> 00:10:36.025
  • Really trying to help us understand here.
  • 00:10:36.025 --> 00:10:39.161
  • You know, i feel a bit about this.
  • 00:10:39.161 --> 00:10:40.429
  • Like, i feel when i come to america
  • 00:10:40.429 --> 00:10:42.698
  • And watch, say, a game of baseball on television, and i.
  • 00:10:42.698 --> 00:10:45.501
  • I know that you have a thing called the world series.
  • 00:10:45.501 --> 00:10:47.603
  • Yes, i noticed that only american teams play.
  • 00:10:47.603 --> 00:10:50.439
  • Which.
  • 00:10:50.439 --> 00:10:51.273
  • And i said this once in a lecture,
  • 00:10:51.273 --> 00:10:52.475
  • And somebody came up to me afterwards and said,
  • 00:10:52.475 --> 00:10:54.376
  • Don't you realize that that's
  • 00:10:54.376 --> 00:10:55.478
  • Because there was a newspaper sponsoring it.
  • 00:10:55.478 --> 00:10:57.179
  • It was called the new york world.
  • 00:10:57.179 --> 00:10:58.447
  • And and i think that rather makes my point.
  • 00:10:58.447 --> 00:11:00.683
  • Yeah.
  • 00:11:00.683 --> 00:11:01.817
  • And, the this is very much an american preoccupation,
  • 00:11:01.817 --> 00:11:05.354
  • Not western in the sense
  • 00:11:05.354 --> 00:11:06.722
  • That there are not that many people in germany,
  • 00:11:06.722 --> 00:11:10.259
  • France, italy, spain who would embrace
  • 00:11:10.259 --> 00:11:13.462
  • The dispensation as to there are always some.
  • 00:11:13.462 --> 00:11:16.132
  • Many of them actually
  • 00:11:16.132 --> 00:11:17.600
  • Probably were trained at the moody bible institute
  • 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:20.436
  • Or somewhere and have come back over to europe.
  • 00:11:20.436 --> 00:11:22.772
  • But then, the thing is this
  • 00:11:22.772 --> 00:11:25.808
  • Dispensationalism has a long and interesting history.
  • 00:11:25.808 --> 00:11:29.445
  • There's a new book
  • 00:11:29.445 --> 00:11:30.579
  • Just out called the rise and fall of dispensationalism,
  • 00:11:30.579 --> 00:11:33.382
  • And i strongly recommend it because the
  • 00:11:33.382 --> 00:11:35.417
  • History is fascinating from the 18th century
  • 00:11:35.417 --> 00:11:38.587
  • Starting points, then through the work of
  • 00:11:38.587 --> 00:11:41.757
  • Jn darby,
  • 00:11:42.057 --> 00:11:43.259
  • Particularly and, and then the scofield reference bible.
  • 00:11:43.259 --> 00:11:46.195
  • And this was always very much a dualist view
  • 00:11:46.195 --> 00:11:49.832
  • That looking at the mainstream
  • 00:11:49.832 --> 00:11:51.734
  • Churches, roman catholic, anglican, as hopelessly corrupt,
  • 00:11:51.734 --> 00:11:55.738
  • And hence
  • 00:11:55.738 --> 00:11:56.906
  • There are only a few of us real believers left and so on.
  • 00:11:56.906 --> 00:11:59.942
  • And then,
  • 00:11:59.942 --> 00:12:01.811
  • What was the religion of a small minority,
  • 00:12:01.811 --> 00:12:05.247
  • When it came to america, became popular
  • 00:12:05.247 --> 00:12:07.616
  • And for all sorts of cultural and social reasons became now,
  • 00:12:07.616 --> 00:12:11.253
  • As you say, the religion, if not of the majority,
  • 00:12:11.253 --> 00:12:13.889
  • Because perhaps the majority of these days are basically,
  • 00:12:13.889 --> 00:12:17.426
  • Moral therapeutic.
  • 00:12:17.860 --> 00:12:18.828
  • Deists rather than anything
  • 00:12:18.828 --> 00:12:20.629
  • More specific, specifically like dispensationalism,
  • 00:12:20.629 --> 00:12:23.966
  • But that, that
  • 00:12:23.966 --> 00:12:25.334
  • This is, this is not even known much about in britain.
  • 00:12:25.334 --> 00:12:29.505
  • I mean, when
  • 00:12:29.505 --> 00:12:30.739
  • We had the second gulf war, a lot of the rhetoric in america
  • 00:12:30.739 --> 00:12:33.909
  • Was very much driven by the dispensation
  • 00:12:33.909 --> 00:12:36.545
  • Of this thing that saddam hussein
  • 00:12:36.545 --> 00:12:38.013
  • Had been opposed to the present state of israel.
  • 00:12:38.013 --> 00:12:40.349
  • Therefore, we had to defend that, etc.
  • 00:12:40.349 --> 00:12:42.785
  • People in britain simply didn't understand
  • 00:12:42.785 --> 00:12:45.955
  • The hinterland of theological speculation.
  • 00:12:45.955 --> 00:12:49.258
  • That was driving many in, in the bush white house at the time.
  • 00:12:49.258 --> 00:12:53.229
  • And, and many of the supporters whose instinct was, yeah,
  • 00:12:53.229 --> 00:12:57.333
  • Israel is god's, flag were a flag bearer.
  • 00:12:57.333 --> 00:13:01.971
  • But by the way, 1948 was a good year.
  • 00:13:01.971 --> 00:13:03.906
  • That's the year i was born.
  • 00:13:03.906 --> 00:13:05.741
  • So never mind other things.
  • 00:13:05.741 --> 00:13:07.977
  • The important moment in the history of the world.
  • 00:13:07.977 --> 00:13:10.246
  • But, so, so it's actually very confusing because america
  • 00:13:11.347 --> 00:13:16.151
  • Takes the lead in so many issues in the world or has done,
  • 00:13:16.151 --> 00:13:19.288
  • But the thought that
  • 00:13:19.755 --> 00:13:21.757
  • Some of that foreign policy is driven by,
  • 00:13:21.757 --> 00:13:25.594
  • What was a very strange minority reading of some parts
  • 00:13:25.594 --> 00:13:30.165
  • Of the new testament going against what other parts
  • 00:13:30.165 --> 00:13:33.769
  • Of the new testament, i would say, clearly teach.
  • 00:13:33.769 --> 00:13:36.839
  • This is really very worrying.
  • 00:13:36.839 --> 00:13:38.540
  • And because most people in britain don't imagine that
  • 00:13:38.540 --> 00:13:41.343
  • That theology has anything to do with realpolitik,
  • 00:13:41.343 --> 00:13:44.113
  • They don't realize what's actually been going on.
  • 00:13:44.113 --> 00:13:46.582
  • And so i find this really very disturbing.
  • 00:13:46.582 --> 00:13:49.518
  • And we we need, you know, the answer is better
  • 00:13:49.518 --> 00:13:53.088
  • Reading of scripture.
  • 00:13:53.088 --> 00:13:54.223
  • And that's what i've been trying to devote my life to.
  • 00:13:54.223 --> 00:13:56.859
  • You're a theologian and you go into granular.
  • 00:13:56.859 --> 00:14:00.930
  • I'm a 70,000ft storyteller. okay.
  • 00:14:00.930 --> 00:14:04.033
  • So let me just kind of rehearse and say what i think you said.
  • 00:14:04.033 --> 00:14:08.737
  • America through the footnotes in a scofield bible,
  • 00:14:08.737 --> 00:14:15.077
  • Largely took
  • 00:14:15.411 --> 00:14:18.747
  • John darby's mid 1800s
  • 00:14:18.747 --> 00:14:23.552
  • Theory
  • 00:14:23.752 --> 00:14:25.921
  • And biblical interpretation.
  • 00:14:25.921 --> 00:14:29.024
  • It became footnotes in a scofield bible,
  • 00:14:29.024 --> 00:14:31.994
  • I think second edition, just after,
  • 00:14:31.994 --> 00:14:35.397
  • Early 20th century.
  • 00:14:35.397 --> 00:14:37.833
  • And that then became a movement in america.
  • 00:14:37.833 --> 00:14:42.504
  • But america largely is alone in that worldview.
  • 00:14:42.504 --> 00:14:47.376
  • So the church
  • 00:14:47.376 --> 00:14:48.777
  • I would have grown up in, which was the assemblies of god,
  • 00:14:48.777 --> 00:14:51.847
  • The baptist denomination,
  • 00:14:52.414 --> 00:14:55.918
  • You're kind of dyed in the wool blue
  • 00:14:55.918 --> 00:14:58.320
  • Kind of baptist or or assemblies,
  • 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.924
  • You believe dispensation or theology, and that shapes
  • 00:15:02.992 --> 00:15:06.428
  • Everything you think about really the end times and
  • 00:15:06.428 --> 00:15:10.065
  • And and so on.
  • 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:12.735
  • But darby's interpretation
  • 00:15:12.735 --> 00:15:16.305
  • Stands alone in all of church history.
  • 00:15:16.305 --> 00:15:19.174
  • In one category.
  • 00:15:19.174 --> 00:15:20.609
  • We discuss this briefly off camera
  • 00:15:20.609 --> 00:15:23.779
  • That he took the kingdom age
  • 00:15:23.779 --> 00:15:27.082
  • That we are currently living in largely needed to rename it.
  • 00:15:27.082 --> 00:15:32.788
  • So a church age kind of got created
  • 00:15:32.788 --> 00:15:37.860
  • And he
  • 00:15:38.060 --> 00:15:39.161
  • Took the kingdom, put it way out here in the future,
  • 00:15:39.161 --> 00:15:42.865
  • Back in the hands of jesus, only to return it when he comes,
  • 00:15:42.865 --> 00:15:48.670
  • In a second return kind of dynamic.
  • 00:15:49.438 --> 00:15:53.575
  • My understanding was his disdain for the hypocrisy
  • 00:15:53.575 --> 00:15:59.748
  • Of the catholic church in his day.
  • 00:15:59.748 --> 00:16:03.218
  • He was, let's say, able to
  • 00:16:03.218 --> 00:16:07.122
  • Justify that radical reinterpretation of scripture
  • 00:16:08.157 --> 00:16:13.395
  • Because he couldn't accept the catholic church as a part
  • 00:16:13.395 --> 00:16:17.833
  • Of the legitimate kingdom of god on earth in his day.
  • 00:16:17.833 --> 00:16:21.437
  • That all makes sense, and particularly because
  • 00:16:21.437 --> 00:16:24.239
  • John darby was, i think, a disaffected,
  • 00:16:24.239 --> 00:16:28.310
  • Anglican minister in ireland who then came to england,
  • 00:16:28.310 --> 00:16:30.579
  • Anglican minister in ireland who then came to england,
  • 00:16:30.579 --> 00:16:31.780
  • Then went to america.
  • 00:16:31.780 --> 00:16:33.582
  • And the particular history of english,
  • 00:16:33.582 --> 00:16:38.087
  • Christianity and irish christianity
  • 00:16:38.087 --> 00:16:40.289
  • Has been very conflicted
  • 00:16:40.289 --> 00:16:41.590
  • Going back to our civil war in the 1640s
  • 00:16:41.590 --> 00:16:45.027
  • And the work of oliver cromwell, etc., etc. and,
  • 00:16:45.027 --> 00:16:48.597
  • The catholic church ever since then in ireland
  • 00:16:49.565 --> 00:16:52.301
  • And the protestants ever since
  • 00:16:52.301 --> 00:16:53.735
  • And in ireland have their own particular history,
  • 00:16:53.735 --> 00:16:56.338
  • Which has been complicated and fraught and has produced
  • 00:16:56.338 --> 00:17:00.409
  • A lot of violence as well. and so,
  • 00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:03.712
  • It's as though,
  • 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:05.981
  • One frustrated, and angry,
  • 00:17:05.981 --> 00:17:09.952
  • Minister who probably is quite right
  • 00:17:09.952 --> 00:17:12.588
  • About a lot of abuses in mainstream churches.
  • 00:17:12.588 --> 00:17:14.756
  • I mean, i come from mainstream church.
  • 00:17:14.756 --> 00:17:17.192
  • I am not dewy eyed about its many failures and problems.
  • 00:17:17.192 --> 00:17:21.830
  • But the idea that therefore you have to construct a
  • 00:17:21.830 --> 00:17:24.766
  • Whole system which says will the age of the church
  • 00:17:24.766 --> 00:17:28.437
  • Is completely different and the kingdom is postponed.
  • 00:17:28.437 --> 00:17:31.473
  • This just seems to me
  • 00:17:31.473 --> 00:17:33.509
  • If your fundamental principle is that we believe in
  • 00:17:33.509 --> 00:17:37.613
  • The inspiration of scripture, that it's god given them, that's
  • 00:17:37.613 --> 00:17:40.182
  • Where we must make our start, then this simply won't work.
  • 00:17:40.182 --> 00:17:44.786
  • But you can't postpone the kingdom like that.
  • 00:17:44.786 --> 00:17:48.123
  • You then have to live with, as the book of acts does,
  • 00:17:48.123 --> 00:17:51.760
  • The ambiguities of real church life.
  • 00:17:51.760 --> 00:17:55.764
  • It's not that the church and the kingdom of the same thing,
  • 00:17:55.764 --> 00:17:58.600
  • Because they're not.
  • 00:17:58.600 --> 00:17:59.601
  • The church is the people who are supposed
  • 00:17:59.601 --> 00:18:01.136
  • To be bearing witness to the kingdom.
  • 00:18:01.136 --> 00:18:03.138
  • The church is the people through whom god, by his holy
  • 00:18:03.138 --> 00:18:05.574
  • Spirit, is supposed to be doing kingdom ish things
  • 00:18:05.574 --> 00:18:09.244
  • In order to show the world that jesus is, in fact, lord.
  • 00:18:09.244 --> 00:18:13.015
  • This is all straight
  • 00:18:13.482 --> 00:18:14.449
  • Out of ephesians, actually, if you would.
  • 00:18:14.449 --> 00:18:16.785
  • And then i would say that wouldn't be.
  • 00:18:16.785 --> 00:18:19.087
  • What's the correct way to look at eschatology?
  • 00:18:19.087 --> 00:18:24.493
  • Eschatology,
  • 00:18:24.826 --> 00:18:26.795
  • Literally, it means,
  • 00:18:26.795 --> 00:18:29.398
  • The science of the end or an end.
  • 00:18:29.398 --> 00:18:32.634
  • Eschaton in greek is last or end.
  • 00:18:32.634 --> 00:18:36.338
  • Different theologians have used that word
  • 00:18:37.206 --> 00:18:39.775
  • In radically different ways.
  • 00:18:39.775 --> 00:18:41.276
  • And i've got a whole book
  • 00:18:41.276 --> 00:18:43.078
  • Called history of eschatology, which has a lot of stuff
  • 00:18:43.078 --> 00:18:46.215
  • On that.
  • 00:18:46.215 --> 00:18:47.115
  • But basically, if you look at the bible,
  • 00:18:47.115 --> 00:18:49.751
  • There is one great hope, which is that one day
  • 00:18:49.751 --> 00:18:53.655
  • The earth shall be full of the glory of god as the waters cover
  • 00:18:53.655 --> 00:18:56.658
  • The sea.
  • 00:18:56.658 --> 00:18:57.693
  • You've got that in isaiah 11.
  • 00:18:57.693 --> 00:18:59.294
  • You've got it in habakkuk two.
  • 00:18:59.294 --> 00:19:00.729
  • You've got at the end of psalm 72, you've
  • 00:19:00.729 --> 00:19:02.998
  • Got it in that fascinating passage in numbers 14,
  • 00:19:02.998 --> 00:19:06.301
  • The whole earth will be full of either
  • 00:19:06.301 --> 00:19:08.337
  • The knowledge of the lord or the glory of the lord.
  • 00:19:08.337 --> 00:19:10.806
  • And for me, growing up as a western christian,
  • 00:19:10.806 --> 00:19:13.775
  • In the platonic mode in britain,
  • 00:19:13.775 --> 00:19:17.279
  • This always just seemed like a nice metaphor for will.
  • 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:20.148
  • We actually know that the end of the story
  • 00:19:20.148 --> 00:19:21.550
  • Is we're all going to heaven?
  • 00:19:21.550 --> 00:19:22.651
  • Or at least the christians
  • 00:19:22.651 --> 00:19:23.852
  • Are going to heaven, or somebody is going to heaven.
  • 00:19:23.852 --> 00:19:25.921
  • But actually that the old testament doesn't say that.
  • 00:19:25.921 --> 00:19:28.690
  • And so people then think, well, maybe
  • 00:19:28.690 --> 00:19:30.392
  • The old testament was just about land and people,
  • 00:19:30.392 --> 00:19:32.728
  • And then the new testament is all about how to go to heaven.
  • 00:19:32.728 --> 00:19:35.864
  • No, the new testament draws on precisely
  • 00:19:35.864 --> 00:19:39.368
  • Those old testament passages which speak about god's renewal
  • 00:19:39.368 --> 00:19:42.804
  • Of all creation and say, that's what's good.
  • 00:19:42.804 --> 00:19:45.974
  • That's what the resurrection is all about.
  • 00:19:45.974 --> 00:19:47.609
  • This is the renewal of the good creation
  • 00:19:47.609 --> 00:19:50.779
  • Starting, launching with jesus and with his resurrection now
  • 00:19:50.779 --> 00:19:54.449
  • Energized by the spirit.
  • 00:19:54.449 --> 00:19:56.151
  • And then so for me, one of the great strap lines
  • 00:19:56.151 --> 00:19:59.921
  • In the new testament
  • 00:19:59.921 --> 00:20:01.056
  • Is ephesians chapter one, verse ten, where paul says,
  • 00:20:01.056 --> 00:20:03.825
  • God's plan from the beginning was to sum up in
  • 00:20:03.825 --> 00:20:06.695
  • The messiah all things in heaven and on earth.
  • 00:20:06.695 --> 00:20:09.931
  • And i've often said,
  • 00:20:09.931 --> 00:20:10.966
  • If the protestant reformers had made ephesians
  • 00:20:10.966 --> 00:20:12.701
  • Rather than romans or galatians their main
  • 00:20:12.701 --> 00:20:15.137
  • Go to text, the whole history
  • 00:20:15.137 --> 00:20:17.039
  • Of the western world would have been different,
  • 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.007
  • Because they were able to read romans and galatians
  • 00:20:19.007 --> 00:20:21.343
  • In the light of medieval platonism, which was somehow
  • 00:20:21.343 --> 00:20:25.280
  • Paul must be talking about going to heaven.
  • 00:20:25.280 --> 00:20:27.416
  • So the justification theory is about going to heaven.
  • 00:20:27.416 --> 00:20:30.319
  • The other strap line, revelation 21, verse three,
  • 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.522
  • It's not about the dwelling of humans is with god.
  • 00:20:33.522 --> 00:20:36.358
  • It's the dwelling of god is with humans.
  • 00:20:36.358 --> 00:20:38.026
  • And that's what so the john 114 and john 316.
  • 00:20:38.026 --> 00:20:42.831
  • Yes, i've got a funny story about that,
  • 00:20:42.831 --> 00:20:44.466
  • Maybe for another time.
  • 00:20:44.466 --> 00:20:45.367
  • But john 114
  • 00:20:45.367 --> 00:20:47.035
  • The word became flesh and pitched his tent in our midst.
  • 00:20:47.035 --> 00:20:51.106
  • Ascanius and in greek is a tent word.
  • 00:20:51.106 --> 00:20:53.909
  • So it's about the tabernacle in the wilderness.
  • 00:20:53.909 --> 00:20:56.111
  • Only now it's jesus is the place where the glory of god
  • 00:20:56.111 --> 00:20:59.881
  • Has come to dwell, not as a temporary phenomenon,
  • 00:20:59.881 --> 00:21:02.818
  • To scoop us up and take us away somewhere else, but to launch
  • 00:21:02.818 --> 00:21:06.988
  • A god's glory on earth as in heaven project.
  • 00:21:06.988 --> 00:21:10.225
  • Does that make sense? beautiful.
  • 00:21:10.225 --> 00:21:12.194
  • We want to get
  • 00:21:12.527 --> 00:21:13.462
  • A specific comment on the story of israel.
  • 00:21:13.462 --> 00:21:16.498
  • Yeah.
  • 00:21:16.498 --> 00:21:17.632
  • And you wrote to say the kingdom of god is at hand.
  • 00:21:17.632 --> 00:21:21.370
  • Makes sense only when the hearers know the story.
  • 00:21:21.370 --> 00:21:25.006
  • So far and are waiting for it to be completed.
  • 00:21:25.006 --> 00:21:29.344
  • Okay, so what do you mean by that exactly?
  • 00:21:29.344 --> 00:21:31.713
  • Okay.
  • 00:21:31.713 --> 00:21:32.981
  • In first century writings from the judean people,
  • 00:21:32.981 --> 00:21:36.418
  • And i'm thinking particularly of the historian josephus,
  • 00:21:36.418 --> 00:21:39.221
  • But several other passages as well, going way back
  • 00:21:39.221 --> 00:21:42.824
  • To the time of, of the canon of the old testament.
  • 00:21:42.824 --> 00:21:45.994
  • We we have the language of god being or becoming king.
  • 00:21:47.028 --> 00:21:51.233
  • You see it in the psalms.
  • 00:21:51.800 --> 00:21:52.834
  • The lord is king.
  • 00:21:52.834 --> 00:21:53.769
  • He has put on his glorious apparel.
  • 00:21:53.769 --> 00:21:55.203
  • He's robed himself, he's taken his throne, he's in charge.
  • 00:21:55.203 --> 00:21:59.007
  • And then we look around at the world and say,
  • 00:21:59.007 --> 00:22:01.042
  • Doesn't look as though god is king of the moment.
  • 00:22:01.042 --> 00:22:03.478
  • Lots of bad stuff happening.
  • 00:22:03.478 --> 00:22:05.280
  • They say, well, we're celebrating now in the temple.
  • 00:22:05.280 --> 00:22:08.483
  • What is going to be the reality in the future?
  • 00:22:08.483 --> 00:22:10.952
  • And again and again
  • 00:22:10.952 --> 00:22:12.320
  • We see this to
  • 00:22:12.320 --> 00:22:13.655
  • And fro that the temple is the sign of the new creation.
  • 00:22:13.655 --> 00:22:17.159
  • So if god is being enthroned on the praises of his people
  • 00:22:17.159 --> 00:22:20.128
  • In the temple, this is a sign of what is going to happen.
  • 00:22:20.128 --> 00:22:23.598
  • And so the the coming kingdom,
  • 00:22:23.598 --> 00:22:26.768
  • Is, you know, obviously,
  • 00:22:27.302 --> 00:22:29.638
  • Lots and lots of old testament prophetic passages.
  • 00:22:29.638 --> 00:22:31.940
  • Isaiah 52, classic.
  • 00:22:31.940 --> 00:22:34.643
  • How lovely on the mountains, the feet of those
  • 00:22:34.643 --> 00:22:36.445
  • Who published salvation, who say to zion,
  • 00:22:36.445 --> 00:22:38.480
  • Your god reigns, this is the kingdom of god.
  • 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.117
  • And then you bring that forward to the first century,
  • 00:22:42.117 --> 00:22:45.387
  • And you have some judeans who are looking for
  • 00:22:45.387 --> 00:22:48.924
  • The coming of a messiah,
  • 00:22:48.924 --> 00:22:50.692
  • Some who are happy to settle down with the herod
  • 00:22:50.692 --> 00:22:53.261
  • That we've got, and possibly caesar,
  • 00:22:53.261 --> 00:22:55.163
  • Because maybe god has raised up caesar.
  • 00:22:55.163 --> 00:22:57.432
  • So maybe we better live with this.
  • 00:22:57.432 --> 00:22:59.367
  • But there are others who are saying, no, no, no,
  • 00:22:59.367 --> 00:23:01.369
  • We don't want any of this.
  • 00:23:01.369 --> 00:23:02.604
  • We want god to be king.
  • 00:23:02.604 --> 00:23:05.006
  • And what do they mean by we want god to be king?
  • 00:23:05.006 --> 00:23:07.709
  • Number one, we want to get rid of the romans.
  • 00:23:07.709 --> 00:23:09.578
  • We don't want to be paying them taxes. they're pagans.
  • 00:23:09.578 --> 00:23:12.047
  • They're inflicting their pagan ways of life on us.
  • 00:23:12.047 --> 00:23:14.549
  • We want to be free of that because we want to be able
  • 00:23:14.549 --> 00:23:17.619
  • To serve our god freely, to keep his law perfectly.
  • 00:23:17.619 --> 00:23:21.490
  • And we can't do that
  • 00:23:21.490 --> 00:23:22.624
  • While the romans are trampling on us
  • 00:23:22.624 --> 00:23:24.125
  • And inflicting their laws on us, etc..
  • 00:23:24.125 --> 00:23:26.228
  • So for god to be king means
  • 00:23:26.228 --> 00:23:29.197
  • God is going to sort everything out on earth as in heaven.
  • 00:23:29.197 --> 00:23:33.535
  • We know that god
  • 00:23:33.535 --> 00:23:34.669
  • Is already ruling in his sphere, which is heaven.
  • 00:23:34.669 --> 00:23:37.873
  • We want that heavenly rule
  • 00:23:37.873 --> 00:23:40.642
  • To become a reality right where we are, which means,
  • 00:23:40.642 --> 00:23:44.980
  • Social, political, cultural, religious, the whole darn thing.
  • 00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:49.384
  • And so then different
  • 00:23:49.885 --> 00:23:52.854
  • Revolutionary and messianic groups in the first century,
  • 00:23:52.854 --> 00:23:56.324
  • Are saying, come with me, and the kingdom of god will happen.
  • 00:23:56.324 --> 00:23:59.728
  • March with me down to, to, the river jordan.
  • 00:23:59.728 --> 00:24:02.664
  • And god will make miracles happen
  • 00:24:02.664 --> 00:24:03.999
  • And this will be the coming of the kingdom, etc.
  • 00:24:03.999 --> 00:24:05.967
  • In the middle of that, we have this young prophet
  • 00:24:05.967 --> 00:24:08.336
  • Turning up where his cousin is baptizing people
  • 00:24:08.336 --> 00:24:11.206
  • And they are starting the real kingdom of god
  • 00:24:11.206 --> 00:24:15.377
  • And when mark tells the story of matthew,
  • 00:24:15.377 --> 00:24:17.746
  • Luke and john pick it up.
  • 00:24:17.746 --> 00:24:19.948
  • They're telling the story of
  • 00:24:19.948 --> 00:24:22.517
  • Yes, this is the kingdom of god arriving.
  • 00:24:22.517 --> 00:24:25.220
  • But no, it doesn't look quite like you imagined.
  • 00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:28.490
  • Now here's the thing
  • 00:24:28.490 --> 00:24:30.191
  • Most western christians would recognize what i just said
  • 00:24:30.191 --> 00:24:33.795
  • And say.
  • 00:24:33.795 --> 00:24:34.362
  • Yeah.
  • 00:24:34.362 --> 00:24:35.530
  • In other words, the judean people, the jews, if you like,
  • 00:24:35.530 --> 00:24:38.366
  • Were expecting of this world, the kingdom.
  • 00:24:38.366 --> 00:24:40.235
  • And obviously
  • 00:24:40.235 --> 00:24:41.403
  • Jesus is now telling us it's another world, the kingdom.
  • 00:24:41.403 --> 00:24:43.972
  • Absolutely wrong.
  • 00:24:43.972 --> 00:24:45.774
  • They are expecting a kingdom which will be launched
  • 00:24:45.774 --> 00:24:48.276
  • Through the ordinary means of military revolution, or
  • 00:24:48.276 --> 00:24:51.546
  • Perhaps dramatic divine action to kill people and do all that.
  • 00:24:51.546 --> 00:24:55.317
  • Jesus is saying, no, the kingdom of god happens like this,
  • 00:24:55.317 --> 00:24:59.754
  • Like a man going and sowing seed in a field,
  • 00:24:59.754 --> 00:25:02.190
  • Like a father who had two sons like this, like that.
  • 00:25:02.190 --> 00:25:05.160
  • And then finally saying,
  • 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.162
  • Through israel's messiah, going to a shameful death
  • 00:25:07.162 --> 00:25:09.864
  • To take the sins of the world upon himself.
  • 00:25:09.864 --> 00:25:12.434
  • But it's still the same vision
  • 00:25:12.434 --> 00:25:14.836
  • That god is going to
  • 00:25:15.303 --> 00:25:16.171
  • Become king on earth is in heaven.
  • 00:25:16.171 --> 00:25:18.440
  • It feels like, you know, halfway
  • 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.242
  • Into our discussion today that
  • 00:25:21.242 --> 00:25:26.081
  • More times than not,
  • 00:25:26.548 --> 00:25:29.884
  • The kingdom of god or even
  • 00:25:30.452 --> 00:25:33.955
  • Some christians understanding of it,
  • 00:25:33.955 --> 00:25:36.524
  • It seems like we've just realistically
  • 00:25:36.524 --> 00:25:40.562
  • Gotten things pretty dynamically wrong a lot of times.
  • 00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:45.333
  • Yeah, i,
  • 00:25:45.333 --> 00:25:47.469
  • I sometimes get embarrassed
  • 00:25:47.469 --> 00:25:48.603
  • When i want to say precisely that,
  • 00:25:48.603 --> 00:25:49.938
  • But i do want to say precisely that.
  • 00:25:49.938 --> 00:25:51.806
  • I think i mentioned last time we met, i've got a new book
  • 00:25:51.806 --> 00:25:54.109
  • Coming out,
  • 00:25:54.109 --> 00:25:55.010
  • Which is i just did the second proofs for
  • 00:25:55.010 --> 00:25:56.711
  • It is coming out, god willing, in next spring
  • 00:25:56.711 --> 00:25:59.080
  • Called god's homecoming.
  • 00:25:59.080 --> 00:26:00.882
  • That and i begin the book by saying, most christians
  • 00:26:00.882 --> 00:26:01.950
  • That and i begin the book by saying, most christians
  • 00:26:01.950 --> 00:26:04.586
  • In the world today
  • 00:26:04.586 --> 00:26:05.387
  • Think that the aim of the whole thing
  • 00:26:05.387 --> 00:26:06.254
  • Think that the aim of the whole thing
  • 00:26:06.254 --> 00:26:07.055
  • Is for our souls to go to heaven.
  • 00:26:07.055 --> 00:26:08.890
  • That's wrong.
  • 00:26:08.890 --> 00:26:09.724
  • The aim of the whole thing is
  • 00:26:09.724 --> 00:26:10.925
  • For god's love and sovereignty to become real on earth.
  • 00:26:10.925 --> 00:26:14.729
  • As in heaven.
  • 00:26:14.729 --> 00:26:15.897
  • And jesus coming to be with us is not a temporary thing.
  • 00:26:15.897 --> 00:26:19.701
  • That was god. god's coming home.
  • 00:26:19.701 --> 00:26:22.804
  • And then particularly the the holy spirit
  • 00:26:22.804 --> 00:26:25.807
  • In acts chapter two, coming to dwell in the house
  • 00:26:25.807 --> 00:26:29.210
  • And in the disciples.
  • 00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:30.378
  • This is like the scene in the tabernacle in exodus 40,
  • 00:26:30.378 --> 00:26:33.481
  • Or in the temple in first kings eight, when god comes to dwell
  • 00:26:33.481 --> 00:26:37.285
  • With his people, this is what god always wanted to do.
  • 00:26:37.285 --> 00:26:40.522
  • Giving the holy spirit is not a way of saying
  • 00:26:41.456 --> 00:26:43.658
  • You guys need a bit of a leg up,
  • 00:26:43.658 --> 00:26:45.026
  • So i'll just give you my spirit and that'll help you move
  • 00:26:45.026 --> 00:26:47.295
  • On through life.
  • 00:26:47.295 --> 00:26:48.396
  • It's a way of god coming to take residence
  • 00:26:48.396 --> 00:26:51.866
  • Where he always wanted to take residence.
  • 00:26:51.866 --> 00:26:54.269
  • I find that very powerful myself.
  • 00:26:54.269 --> 00:26:56.705
  • You know, sometimes i just think
  • 00:26:56.705 --> 00:26:59.274
  • This is going to take forever
  • 00:26:59.274 --> 00:27:01.376
  • To understand this world or to change people's minds.
  • 00:27:01.376 --> 00:27:04.979
  • You know.
  • 00:27:04.979 --> 00:27:05.714
  • We have that problem.
  • 00:27:05.714 --> 00:27:06.715
  • I mean, i've heard students say this,
  • 00:27:06.715 --> 00:27:10.151
  • Not just about my lectures, but about other people's.
  • 00:27:10.151 --> 00:27:12.220
  • You know,
  • 00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:13.088
  • While i was listening to the lecture,
  • 00:27:13.088 --> 00:27:13.988
  • I could just about
  • 00:27:13.988 --> 00:27:15.023
  • Hold on to this, but as soon as i left the room,
  • 00:27:15.023 --> 00:27:16.558
  • My mind flicked back into default mode.
  • 00:27:16.558 --> 00:27:18.560
  • And i'm aware that's how it is.
  • 00:27:18.560 --> 00:27:20.662
  • But i also know that eventually the proof of the pudding is
  • 00:27:20.662 --> 00:27:24.532
  • When people come
  • 00:27:24.532 --> 00:27:26.468
  • And reread the scriptures to see if these things be so,
  • 00:27:26.468 --> 00:27:29.971
  • So many things in the bible come up and say, well,
  • 00:27:29.971 --> 00:27:33.441
  • Of course, what?
  • 00:27:33.441 --> 00:27:34.642
  • What have you been trying to tell you?
  • 00:27:34.642 --> 00:27:36.111
  • Like the psalms and the prophets and so on.
  • 00:27:36.111 --> 00:27:38.613
  • But it's that thing that we have assumed
  • 00:27:38.613 --> 00:27:40.682
  • That there's a bigger change between old testament,
  • 00:27:40.682 --> 00:27:43.051
  • Which is about very much this world, new stuff,
  • 00:27:43.051 --> 00:27:45.920
  • And the new testament
  • 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.155
  • And people have assumed that that that's
  • 00:27:47.155 --> 00:27:48.957
  • About going to heaven, isn't it?
  • 00:27:48.957 --> 00:27:50.925
  • So the end of philippians three, our citizenship is in heaven.
  • 00:27:50.925 --> 00:27:54.362
  • People say, well, that's where we'll be going one day.
  • 00:27:54.362 --> 00:27:56.965
  • That's not how the language of citizenship works.
  • 00:27:56.965 --> 00:28:00.101
  • In philippi, a lot of people were roman citizens,
  • 00:28:00.101 --> 00:28:03.171
  • And this was not so that they could retire
  • 00:28:03.171 --> 00:28:05.406
  • And go back to rome one day.
  • 00:28:05.406 --> 00:28:06.574
  • That was the last thing rome wanted.
  • 00:28:06.574 --> 00:28:07.942
  • It was already overcrowded, etc.
  • 00:28:07.942 --> 00:28:10.111
  • It was so that they could be agents of roman civilization.
  • 00:28:10.111 --> 00:28:13.414
  • It was in greece where they were to be citizens of heaven.
  • 00:28:13.414 --> 00:28:16.851
  • Here on earth
  • 00:28:16.851 --> 00:28:17.986
  • Means we have to be agents of heaven,
  • 00:28:17.986 --> 00:28:19.687
  • Civilization here and now.
  • 00:28:19.687 --> 00:28:21.356
  • And when it says,
  • 00:28:21.356 --> 00:28:22.724
  • And from heaven we await the lord, the savior,
  • 00:28:22.724 --> 00:28:25.360
  • The messiah, who will come and change
  • 00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:27.162
  • Our lowly bodies to be like his glorious body.
  • 00:28:27.162 --> 00:28:29.030
  • It isn't that he will come back and snatch us away.
  • 00:28:29.030 --> 00:28:32.467
  • He will come back and complete the work of
  • 00:28:32.467 --> 00:28:35.303
  • Instantiating the kingdom on earth as in heaven.
  • 00:28:35.303 --> 00:28:38.473
  • Will you just think of the words of jesus
  • 00:28:38.473 --> 00:28:40.842
  • Like thy kingdom come, thy will be done on.
  • 00:28:41.743 --> 00:28:44.579
  • Earth as in heaven. yeah.
  • 00:28:44.579 --> 00:28:46.347
  • And the kingdom of god is at hand.
  • 00:28:46.347 --> 00:28:48.283
  • What? where did it go?
  • 00:28:48.283 --> 00:28:50.285
  • Yeah. it's within. where did it go?
  • 00:28:50.285 --> 00:28:52.120
  • He left. absolutely, absolutely.
  • 00:28:52.120 --> 00:28:54.355
  • The kingdom of god is still here.
  • 00:28:54.355 --> 00:28:55.790
  • That we're supposed to be. yeah. yep, yep.
  • 00:28:55.790 --> 00:28:58.426
  • This is i mean, the disciples questions
  • 00:28:58.426 --> 00:29:00.628
  • To jesus in acts chapter one.
  • 00:29:00.628 --> 00:29:02.230
  • Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to israel?
  • 00:29:02.230 --> 00:29:04.732
  • And your dispensation is friends
  • 00:29:04.732 --> 00:29:05.733
  • And your dispensation is friends
  • 00:29:05.733 --> 00:29:06.668
  • Would say that jesus answer was no,
  • 00:29:06.668 --> 00:29:08.903
  • But you've got something to do in the meantime.
  • 00:29:08.903 --> 00:29:11.005
  • And the answer is emphatically yes, but it's not happening
  • 00:29:11.005 --> 00:29:15.009
  • The way you thought it was, exactly as in the parables.
  • 00:29:15.009 --> 00:29:18.112
  • Let me tell you about the kingdom of god.
  • 00:29:18.112 --> 00:29:19.747
  • So went out to sow seed or whatever it was.
  • 00:29:19.747 --> 00:29:22.317
  • In other words, it is here,
  • 00:29:22.317 --> 00:29:23.718
  • But it's working in a way that you hadn't expected.
  • 00:29:23.718 --> 00:29:26.454
  • And so jesus says,
  • 00:29:26.454 --> 00:29:27.722
  • It's not up to you to know times or seasons.
  • 00:29:28.623 --> 00:29:30.892
  • God's got that one covered. thank you very much.
  • 00:29:30.892 --> 00:29:33.161
  • But you're going to receive power and be my witnesses.
  • 00:29:33.161 --> 00:29:35.597
  • Well, being witnesses to the king of israel,
  • 00:29:35.597 --> 00:29:37.966
  • Who is also the king of the world,
  • 00:29:37.966 --> 00:29:40.168
  • This is what the kingdom of god happening in the present
  • 00:29:40.168 --> 00:29:43.238
  • Looks like. and it's messy.
  • 00:29:43.238 --> 00:29:45.406
  • They get it wrong.
  • 00:29:45.406 --> 00:29:46.407
  • People get hurt and killed.
  • 00:29:46.407 --> 00:29:48.243
  • But exactly as jesus said they would.
  • 00:29:48.243 --> 00:29:51.212
  • This is how the kingdom of god comes.
  • 00:29:51.212 --> 00:29:54.482
  • You've written that to equate the kingdom
  • 00:29:55.316 --> 00:29:58.753
  • And the church
  • 00:29:58.753 --> 00:30:00.388
  • Is at best putting the cart before the horse, okay?
  • 00:30:00.388 --> 00:30:04.626
  • And is incorrect.
  • 00:30:04.626 --> 00:30:06.628
  • If jesus wasn't talking about starting the church,
  • 00:30:06.628 --> 00:30:10.698
  • What was he talking about?
  • 00:30:10.698 --> 00:30:12.367
  • He wasn't exactly talking about starting the church.
  • 00:30:12.367 --> 00:30:15.103
  • He was sort of doing it,
  • 00:30:15.103 --> 00:30:16.971
  • When he called 12 disciples.
  • 00:30:17.572 --> 00:30:20.174
  • Anyone in the first century seeing this prophetic movement,
  • 00:30:20.174 --> 00:30:23.711
  • Talking about the kingdom of god,
  • 00:30:23.711 --> 00:30:24.879
  • And then the leader
  • 00:30:24.879 --> 00:30:26.748
  • Choosing 12 people, they know precisely what's going on.
  • 00:30:26.748 --> 00:30:29.450
  • This is about the restoration or renewal of israel.
  • 00:30:29.450 --> 00:30:31.920
  • Of course it is that it can only mean that.
  • 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:35.023
  • But this is a way of saying, actually, the church began
  • 00:30:35.023 --> 00:30:37.792
  • When god called abraham in genesis 12 and said, in
  • 00:30:37.792 --> 00:30:41.195
  • You and in your seed, all the families of the earth,
  • 00:30:41.195 --> 00:30:43.264
  • All the families of the earth.
  • 00:30:43.264 --> 00:30:44.432
  • In other words,
  • 00:30:44.432 --> 00:30:45.066
  • The purpose of israel
  • 00:30:45.066 --> 00:30:46.134
  • Always was to be the blessing for the nations.
  • 00:30:46.134 --> 00:30:49.537
  • That didn't happen. didn't happen
  • 00:30:49.537 --> 00:30:51.940
  • Because abraham and his family were also in adam.
  • 00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:55.677
  • That's the irony
  • 00:30:55.677 --> 00:30:57.378
  • And the tragedy of so much of the old testament.
  • 00:30:57.378 --> 00:30:59.781
  • The people who are bearing the promise
  • 00:30:59.781 --> 00:31:01.582
  • Are also the carriers of the problem.
  • 00:31:01.582 --> 00:31:03.985
  • And therefore jesus
  • 00:31:04.452 --> 00:31:06.587
  • Launching of the kingdom of god
  • 00:31:06.587 --> 00:31:08.222
  • And choosing these 12 is a way of saying,
  • 00:31:08.222 --> 00:31:10.892
  • This is god getting the project back on track.
  • 00:31:10.892 --> 00:31:14.095
  • And of course, it's ambiguous because before jesus death,
  • 00:31:14.095 --> 00:31:16.764
  • They don't know. they don't understand.
  • 00:31:16.764 --> 00:31:18.499
  • They still they're still thinking
  • 00:31:18.499 --> 00:31:20.501
  • That we're going to get to jerusalem,
  • 00:31:20.501 --> 00:31:21.869
  • And then suddenly it'll be time
  • 00:31:21.869 --> 00:31:22.971
  • To whip out the swords and do the business,
  • 00:31:22.971 --> 00:31:25.073
  • And god will help us kill all these stupid romans.
  • 00:31:25.073 --> 00:31:28.910
  • You know, peter is waving his sword about in the garden, and,
  • 00:31:28.910 --> 00:31:32.380
  • And who knows what was in judas mind.
  • 00:31:32.380 --> 00:31:34.382
  • But jesus all along knows that the real enemy
  • 00:31:34.382 --> 00:31:37.552
  • Should be defeated is not rome,
  • 00:31:37.552 --> 00:31:39.420
  • But the accuser, the satan, and whatever you like to say.
  • 00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:42.290
  • So the sense of the messianic battle
  • 00:31:42.290 --> 00:31:45.827
  • Being transferred from being
  • 00:31:45.827 --> 00:31:47.795
  • Just killing a few roman soldiers to actually
  • 00:31:47.795 --> 00:31:51.065
  • Defeating the power of chaos, the power of darkness,
  • 00:31:51.065 --> 00:31:55.570
  • And the way that that happens through the cross.
  • 00:31:55.570 --> 00:31:59.073
  • This is this is huge.
  • 00:31:59.574 --> 00:32:01.609
  • And most theories of atonement still don't quite get it.
  • 00:32:01.609 --> 00:32:06.781
  • The dark
  • 00:32:06.781 --> 00:32:08.016
  • Powers, the forces of chaos keep the world in their grip.
  • 00:32:08.016 --> 00:32:11.486
  • Because humans worship idols,
  • 00:32:11.486 --> 00:32:14.622
  • They worship the dark powers, and so they sin so.
  • 00:32:14.622 --> 00:32:18.659
  • And sin is what keeps the powers in business.
  • 00:32:18.659 --> 00:32:22.230
  • So in order to defeat the powers,
  • 00:32:22.230 --> 00:32:24.532
  • Sin has to be dealt with.
  • 00:32:24.532 --> 00:32:26.534
  • So jesus takes the weight of sin on himself on the cross,
  • 00:32:26.534 --> 00:32:30.571
  • Dying in the place of sinners
  • 00:32:30.571 --> 00:32:32.373
  • In order to defeat the power of darkness.
  • 00:32:33.207 --> 00:32:35.676
  • In other words, we have said,
  • 00:32:35.676 --> 00:32:37.412
  • Jesus died for my sins so that i can go to heaven.
  • 00:32:37.412 --> 00:32:40.581
  • The new testament says, jesus died for your sins,
  • 00:32:40.581 --> 00:32:42.984
  • So that the powers of darkness and chaos can be overthrown
  • 00:32:42.984 --> 00:32:46.054
  • And god's kingdom can come on.
  • 00:32:46.054 --> 00:32:47.588
  • Earth is in heaven, and the sign of that
  • 00:32:47.588 --> 00:32:50.458
  • Is that three days later he is raised from the dead,
  • 00:32:50.458 --> 00:32:53.394
  • Which is the launch of the new creation
  • 00:32:53.394 --> 00:32:57.231
  • In the person and body of jesus.
  • 00:32:57.231 --> 00:32:59.500
  • So what is left of the story?
  • 00:32:59.500 --> 00:33:03.237
  • Okay, we've been talking about this unfolding story.
  • 00:33:03.237 --> 00:33:05.706
  • So this story, what is left of the story moving forward,
  • 00:33:05.706 --> 00:33:10.478
  • What do you believe remains unfulfilled?
  • 00:33:10.478 --> 00:33:14.715
  • And what do you believe about the future
  • 00:33:14.715 --> 00:33:18.219
  • Of god and his people in tales?
  • 00:33:18.219 --> 00:33:21.322
  • Okay, i had to speak in a church in new york last week
  • 00:33:21.322 --> 00:33:23.991
  • On signs of the future and how we can bring
  • 00:33:23.991 --> 00:33:27.195
  • Those signs into the present,
  • 00:33:27.195 --> 00:33:28.329
  • And i went to revelation 21 and i said, look at this.
  • 00:33:28.329 --> 00:33:30.765
  • Look at this picture here.
  • 00:33:30.765 --> 00:33:32.033
  • The dwelling of god is with humans.
  • 00:33:32.767 --> 00:33:34.335
  • He will dwell with them.
  • 00:33:34.335 --> 00:33:35.169
  • They will be his people,
  • 00:33:35.169 --> 00:33:36.304
  • And god himself will be with them
  • 00:33:36.304 --> 00:33:37.672
  • And will wipe away every tear from every eye.
  • 00:33:37.672 --> 00:33:40.308
  • And death shall be no more, neither pain nor crying
  • 00:33:40.308 --> 00:33:43.211
  • Any more.
  • 00:33:43.211 --> 00:33:44.045
  • For the former things will be passed
  • 00:33:44.045 --> 00:33:45.012
  • Away, and i will say, we're not there yet,
  • 00:33:45.012 --> 00:33:48.783
  • But the church ministry is in the present
  • 00:33:48.783 --> 00:33:51.853
  • Time, among other things, a ministry of consolation,
  • 00:33:51.853 --> 00:33:55.223
  • Bringing that consoling time forward into the present.
  • 00:33:55.223 --> 00:33:59.393
  • Death is still happening.
  • 00:33:59.393 --> 00:34:01.129
  • People still need consoling.
  • 00:34:01.129 --> 00:34:02.730
  • There will be a time when death will be abolished,
  • 00:34:02.730 --> 00:34:06.234
  • When there will be no mourning or crying or pain anymore.
  • 00:34:06.234 --> 00:34:09.103
  • That has not happened yet
  • 00:34:09.103 --> 00:34:10.605
  • And we are waiting for it to happen,
  • 00:34:10.605 --> 00:34:12.039
  • Which is exactly cognate with first corinthians 15.
  • 00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:14.742
  • He must reign till he's
  • 00:34:14.742 --> 00:34:15.776
  • Put all his enemies under his feet,
  • 00:34:15.776 --> 00:34:17.378
  • And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
  • 00:34:17.378 --> 00:34:19.647
  • So that then all the things in the present
  • 00:34:19.647 --> 00:34:23.017
  • Which which bring about death, sin, and death,
  • 00:34:23.017 --> 00:34:26.487
  • They are to be abolished.
  • 00:34:26.487 --> 00:34:28.055
  • That has not happened yet.
  • 00:34:28.055 --> 00:34:30.124
  • We are supposed to be the people in whom that process,
  • 00:34:30.124 --> 00:34:34.662
  • That work,
  • 00:34:34.662 --> 00:34:35.930
  • Is already starting to happen by the power of the holy spirit.
  • 00:34:35.930 --> 00:34:38.799
  • But we know in ourselves that that hasn't happened yet.
  • 00:34:38.799 --> 00:34:41.669
  • And unless the lord returns first, we will die. so
  • 00:34:41.669 --> 00:34:45.673
  • Paul, at the end of first corinthians 15 says,
  • 00:34:45.673 --> 00:34:48.109
  • And we shall not all die.
  • 00:34:48.109 --> 00:34:49.277
  • We will be changed in a moment.
  • 00:34:49.277 --> 00:34:50.945
  • In the twinkling of an eye the trumpet will sound, of
  • 00:34:50.945 --> 00:34:53.114
  • The dead will be raised, and we will be changed.
  • 00:34:53.114 --> 00:34:54.982
  • In other words, this present body which is heading for death
  • 00:34:54.982 --> 00:34:59.754
  • Is going to be transformed to be like jesus body.
  • 00:34:59.754 --> 00:35:02.523
  • In other words, jesus body having come out of the tomb
  • 00:35:02.523 --> 00:35:05.593
  • Will never die again.
  • 00:35:05.593 --> 00:35:06.694
  • Death has no more dominion over him.
  • 00:35:06.694 --> 00:35:08.262
  • So that hasn't happened yet.
  • 00:35:08.262 --> 00:35:10.665
  • But the promise keeps coming back
  • 00:35:10.665 --> 00:35:14.202
  • From the future into the present with signs of hope.
  • 00:35:14.202 --> 00:35:17.471
  • Just does that make sense? it does.
  • 00:35:17.471 --> 00:35:18.973
  • And it's a lot better
  • 00:35:18.973 --> 00:35:20.474
  • Than getting a branding iron with six, six, six
  • 00:35:20.474 --> 00:35:23.611
  • And burning it into my forehead.
  • 00:35:23.611 --> 00:35:25.246
  • Yeah, that's not something i've ever been keen on.
  • 00:35:25.246 --> 00:35:27.081
  • Yeah, never.
  • 00:35:27.081 --> 00:35:28.115
  • Okay, we want to talk to you about
  • 00:35:28.115 --> 00:35:32.019
  • What could be
  • 00:35:32.386 --> 00:35:33.621
  • Considered at least a legacy piece of who and what you are
  • 00:35:33.621 --> 00:35:36.891
  • With your online courses and these types of things.
  • 00:35:36.891 --> 00:35:41.195
  • We're very interested in that. what?
  • 00:35:41.195 --> 00:35:42.997
  • Give me the kind of the spiel right out of the gate
  • 00:35:42.997 --> 00:35:46.033
  • So that we can understand that, there's a lot of people
  • 00:35:46.033 --> 00:35:50.304
  • That want to know more about your,
  • 00:35:50.304 --> 00:35:53.407
  • Let's say, teaching side of what you do. yes.
  • 00:35:54.342 --> 00:35:57.144
  • I mean, i've been a teacher one way or another
  • 00:35:57.144 --> 00:36:00.014
  • All my working life.
  • 00:36:00.014 --> 00:36:01.716
  • But about 10 or 15 years ago, my colleague david seymour
  • 00:36:01.716 --> 00:36:05.653
  • Approached me and said, look, you're doing too much traveling.
  • 00:36:05.653 --> 00:36:07.922
  • I was then in my mid 60s, and i needed to slow down a bit.
  • 00:36:07.922 --> 00:36:11.959
  • And so david suggested that instead of me
  • 00:36:11.959 --> 00:36:14.395
  • Always hopping on planes
  • 00:36:14.395 --> 00:36:15.596
  • And going around and doing stuff,
  • 00:36:15.596 --> 00:36:16.897
  • We should bring a camera into my office
  • 00:36:16.897 --> 00:36:19.233
  • And that i would talk to the camera,
  • 00:36:19.233 --> 00:36:20.868
  • And then he and his colleagues would edit it,
  • 00:36:20.868 --> 00:36:23.304
  • And so that would save me traveling.
  • 00:36:23.304 --> 00:36:25.139
  • Well, i am still traveling here.
  • 00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:27.208
  • I have been
  • 00:36:27.208 --> 00:36:27.642
  • Here you are,
  • 00:36:27.642 --> 00:36:28.843
  • But not nearly as much as i was doing and might have done.
  • 00:36:28.843 --> 00:36:30.044
  • But not nearly as much as i was doing and might have done.
  • 00:36:30.044 --> 00:36:31.612
  • And so it's
  • 00:36:31.612 --> 00:36:32.346
  • Been really fun, actually,
  • 00:36:32.346 --> 00:36:33.347
  • Because we break these courses down into,
  • 00:36:33.347 --> 00:36:36.083
  • Segments, usually between 15 and 20 minutes each.
  • 00:36:36.083 --> 00:36:37.385
  • Segments, usually between 15 and 20 minutes each.
  • 00:36:37.385 --> 00:36:38.486
  • So they're not full length lectures
  • 00:36:38.486 --> 00:36:40.588
  • And full hour length lectures.
  • 00:36:40.588 --> 00:36:42.823
  • But then the courses, comprise a lot of them are exegetical.
  • 00:36:42.823 --> 00:36:47.628
  • That is to say,
  • 00:36:47.628 --> 00:36:48.663
  • We've got courses on each of the four gospels.
  • 00:36:48.663 --> 00:36:50.798
  • I remember just 3 or 4 years ago doing matthew,
  • 00:36:50.798 --> 00:36:53.668
  • And that was the most extraordinarily exciting thing
  • 00:36:53.668 --> 00:36:56.570
  • To spend a few days just talking through matthew in
  • 00:36:56.570 --> 00:36:59.640
  • 15 minute segments and watching it all come together.
  • 00:36:59.640 --> 00:37:03.110
  • And then,
  • 00:37:03.411 --> 00:37:04.612
  • Particularly i did one some while ago on romans,
  • 00:37:04.612 --> 00:37:07.648
  • Which was a massive thing, of course, but more recently,
  • 00:37:07.648 --> 00:37:10.818
  • On the basis of some lectures which i did here in texas,
  • 00:37:10.818 --> 00:37:14.288
  • There's a course called into the heart of romans.
  • 00:37:14.288 --> 00:37:17.758
  • Got it.
  • 00:37:17.758 --> 00:37:18.859
  • And there's actually a book which goes with that,
  • 00:37:18.859 --> 00:37:20.895
  • Which is simply on romans eight, one of the greatest chapters
  • 00:37:20.895 --> 00:37:24.398
  • Ever written by anyone about anything.
  • 00:37:24.398 --> 00:37:26.967
  • And so we go into great detail on that.
  • 00:37:26.967 --> 00:37:28.936
  • So being able to do simultaneously
  • 00:37:28.936 --> 00:37:31.939
  • What you might call survey courses, you know, 15
  • 00:37:31.939 --> 00:37:34.975
  • Or 20 short lectures covering the whole of luke's gospel, say,
  • 00:37:34.975 --> 00:37:39.313
  • Or being able to do something
  • 00:37:39.313 --> 00:37:41.248
  • Where you go verse by verse, millimeter by millimeter,
  • 00:37:41.248 --> 00:37:44.251
  • Through a passage like romans eight.
  • 00:37:44.251 --> 00:37:45.486
  • This has been great fun.
  • 00:37:45.486 --> 00:37:46.754
  • We've also done various topical things where we take particular
  • 00:37:46.754 --> 00:37:50.558
  • Biblical topics and themes and explore them one by one.
  • 00:37:50.558 --> 00:37:54.495
  • And, it's been great fun.
  • 00:37:54.495 --> 00:37:57.365
  • It's hard work when it's going on, but but i'm enjoying it.
  • 00:37:57.365 --> 00:38:00.434
  • It feels like you could go millimeter by millimeter
  • 00:38:00.434 --> 00:38:04.538
  • Pretty much through the whole new testament and beyond,
  • 00:38:04.538 --> 00:38:07.007
  • Could you not?
  • 00:38:07.007 --> 00:38:07.742
  • Well,
  • 00:38:07.742 --> 00:38:08.843
  • I mean, i have translated the whole new testament,
  • 00:38:08.843 --> 00:38:10.344
  • As you know, and the it's now published
  • 00:38:10.344 --> 00:38:12.279
  • As the new testament for everyone.
  • 00:38:12.279 --> 00:38:14.281
  • So, yeah,
  • 00:38:14.281 --> 00:38:15.683
  • There is no
  • 00:38:15.683 --> 00:38:16.584
  • Verse in the new testament that i haven't
  • 00:38:16.584 --> 00:38:18.285
  • Puzzled over, looked up
  • 00:38:18.285 --> 00:38:19.754
  • Words, checked it out, wondered how to put this into english.
  • 00:38:19.754 --> 00:38:23.557
  • But, obviously i have
  • 00:38:24.058 --> 00:38:25.693
  • Specialized, particularly in jesus and paul.
  • 00:38:25.693 --> 00:38:29.096
  • In other words, what really was going on
  • 00:38:29.096 --> 00:38:31.999
  • With jesus launching
  • 00:38:31.999 --> 00:38:33.434
  • Of the kingdom of god on earth is in heaven.
  • 00:38:33.434 --> 00:38:35.436
  • And what really was going on when paul was zooming around
  • 00:38:35.436 --> 00:38:38.372
  • And writing letters and all this stuff.
  • 00:38:38.372 --> 00:38:40.574
  • And, well, there's just nobody i would rather study under than
  • 00:38:40.574 --> 00:38:43.611
  • Than. you.
  • 00:38:43.611 --> 00:38:47.014
  • Hello, i'm tom, right.
  • 00:38:47.014 --> 00:38:48.816
  • I want to introduce you to admirato
  • 00:38:48.816 --> 00:38:50.985
  • Which is the home of nt wright online.
  • 00:38:50.985 --> 00:38:54.155
  • For the last decade, we've been doing our best
  • 00:38:54.155 --> 00:38:56.557
  • To help students discover
  • 00:38:56.557 --> 00:38:58.058
  • What can happen when you start to engage the world of theology.
  • 00:38:58.058 --> 00:39:02.062
  • But we need your help to further this ongoing mission
  • 00:39:02.062 --> 00:39:05.699
  • By supporting the teaching ministry of admirato
  • 00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:08.536
  • And nt wright online.
  • 00:39:08.536 --> 00:39:10.571
  • So please will you join us in partnership as we continue
  • 00:39:10.571 --> 00:39:14.308
  • To equip christians eager to study the bible together
  • 00:39:14.308 --> 00:39:18.045
  • In order to be better equipped to serve god in his world?
  • 00:39:18.045 --> 00:39:21.882
  • Visit admirato.org and thank you
  • 00:39:21.882 --> 00:39:25.219
  • For considering this opportunity to help us further our work.
  • 00:39:25.219 --> 00:39:29.690
  • Pray for our audience.
  • 00:39:30.157 --> 00:39:32.159
  • Some of them are wondering about
  • 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:38.399
  • Old traditions of man.
  • 00:39:38.866 --> 00:39:40.835
  • Sure.
  • 00:39:40.835 --> 00:39:41.635
  • There's a lot of thoughts coming.
  • 00:39:41.635 --> 00:39:44.171
  • I got tapped on the shoulder the other day, and,
  • 00:39:44.171 --> 00:39:47.741
  • And a sweet little tbn viewer
  • 00:39:47.741 --> 00:39:50.878
  • Walked up to me and and said, you know, i've been watching
  • 00:39:50.878 --> 00:39:54.882
  • Some of the interviews that you've been doing about,
  • 00:39:54.882 --> 00:39:57.785
  • You know, a, a, a,
  • 00:39:57.785 --> 00:39:59.887
  • You know, get a load of this, a new narrative on the in times.
  • 00:39:59.887 --> 00:40:03.491
  • Well, it's, it's, it's really not new.
  • 00:40:03.491 --> 00:40:05.359
  • It's the tradition.
  • 00:40:05.359 --> 00:40:07.161
  • And and she said, you know what i hope you're right.
  • 00:40:07.161 --> 00:40:12.066
  • Yeah. you know and i said, well i do too.
  • 00:40:12.066 --> 00:40:14.001
  • So pray, pray for our audience.
  • 00:40:14.001 --> 00:40:16.737
  • If you would just kind of seal this time.
  • 00:40:16.737 --> 00:40:20.074
  • Brother nt, that'd be amazing. thank you.
  • 00:40:20.074 --> 00:40:21.842
  • Sir, i just on that saying, i hope you're right.
  • 00:40:21.842 --> 00:40:25.012
  • More than once my wife has said to me
  • 00:40:25.012 --> 00:40:26.747
  • After i've done a lecture, she says,
  • 00:40:26.747 --> 00:40:28.749
  • I hope what you're saying was right
  • 00:40:28.749 --> 00:40:30.050
  • Because it sounded quite convincing.
  • 00:40:30.050 --> 00:40:32.653
  • Sweet marriage.
  • 00:40:33.020 --> 00:40:35.556
  • I love it.
  • 00:40:35.556 --> 00:40:36.290
  • Anyway. that's great.
  • 00:40:36.290 --> 00:40:37.858
  • Thank you, father, for this time.
  • 00:40:37.858 --> 00:40:39.226
  • And thank you for the extraordinary,
  • 00:40:39.226 --> 00:40:41.195
  • Audience that tbn has out there and further for their devotion,
  • 00:40:41.195 --> 00:40:45.032
  • For their love of you, for their love of scripture.
  • 00:40:45.032 --> 00:40:47.535
  • Thank you for the work of your holy spirit in them.
  • 00:40:47.535 --> 00:40:50.337
  • And, gracious lord, you know we are all muddled.
  • 00:40:50.337 --> 00:40:52.273
  • We all make mistakes. we all get things wrong.
  • 00:40:52.273 --> 00:40:55.042
  • And one day we will look back and realize
  • 00:40:55.042 --> 00:40:58.112
  • How it misinterpreted this and that and the other.
  • 00:40:58.112 --> 00:41:00.648
  • And we're all somewhere on that journey.
  • 00:41:00.648 --> 00:41:02.483
  • And so it's not about
  • 00:41:02.483 --> 00:41:04.318
  • Some people being totally right and others being totally wrong.
  • 00:41:04.318 --> 00:41:07.521
  • So we pray for all of us for humility and wisdom,
  • 00:41:07.521 --> 00:41:11.525
  • Humility and wisdom.
  • 00:41:11.525 --> 00:41:13.160
  • And i pray for that audience that they will have
  • 00:41:13.160 --> 00:41:16.330
  • A sense of excitement at fresh vistas of scripture
  • 00:41:16.330 --> 00:41:20.534
  • And fresh glimpses of jesus himself.
  • 00:41:20.534 --> 00:41:24.305
  • As as inaugurating the kingdom,
  • 00:41:24.939 --> 00:41:27.541
  • As dying for our sins has risen, as ascended, as returning.
  • 00:41:27.541 --> 00:41:31.445
  • But getting the story so that we are
  • 00:41:31.445 --> 00:41:33.480
  • In the right place, doing the right things
  • 00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:35.215
  • In the middle of it.
  • 00:41:35.215 --> 00:41:36.183
  • The gracious lord use this time.
  • 00:41:36.183 --> 00:41:37.751
  • I pray, to bless your people, to bless your world,
  • 00:41:37.751 --> 00:41:41.689
  • And we thank you for your presence with us
  • 00:41:41.689 --> 00:41:43.924
  • And your love surrounding us.
  • 00:41:43.924 --> 00:41:45.125
  • In jesus name, amen.
  • 00:41:45.125 --> 00:41:47.294
  • Thy kingdom come, thy will be.
  • 00:41:47.294 --> 00:41:49.263
  • Done on earth as in. earth as it is in. heaven.
  • 00:41:49.263 --> 00:41:51.699
  • We love you.
  • 00:41:51.699 --> 00:41:53.133
  • Bishop, pastor, teacher in nt wright.
  • 00:41:53.133 --> 00:41:55.569
  • Thank you for being with us. thank you very much.
  • 00:41:55.569 --> 00:41:57.838
  • It█s been fun.
  • 00:41:57.838 --> 00:41:59.073
  • That i may be the last living man on earth.
  • 00:41:59.073 --> 00:42:01.241
  • Day of judgment is going to come.
  • 00:42:01.241 --> 00:42:06.947
  • There will be signs in sun and moon and stars.
  • 00:42:07.915 --> 00:42:11.418
  • Some of the signs of the end times.
  • 00:42:11.418 --> 00:42:13.420
  • The antichrist.
  • 00:42:13.420 --> 00:42:14.455
  • The rapture will come and christ will return.
  • 00:42:14.455 --> 00:42:17.091
  • The world can receive the mark and worship the beast.
  • 00:42:17.091 --> 00:42:20.427
  • Those who resisted were sent to the guillotine.
  • 00:42:20.427 --> 00:42:25.733
  • I. predict
  • 00:42:26.033 --> 00:42:28.902
  • What's going to happen to the planet over the next 150 years.
  • 00:42:28.902 --> 00:42:32.773
  • Some people believe that this is the judgment of god
  • 00:42:32.773 --> 00:42:35.509
  • On an ungodly world.
  • 00:42:35.509 --> 00:42:39.079
  • According to biblical prophecy, each of these events
  • 00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:41.849
  • Will take place only when israel is a jewish nation.
  • 00:42:41.849 --> 00:42:45.419
  • The final tribulation period is an expression
  • 00:42:45.419 --> 00:42:48.489
  • Of the wrath of god against an unbelieving world that occurs.
  • 00:42:48.489 --> 00:42:52.459
  • I'm convinced after the rapture of the church
  • 00:42:52.459 --> 00:42:55.162
  • 88 reasons why the rapture will be in 1988.
  • 00:42:55.162 --> 00:42:58.432
  • Bookstores report they sold like hotcakes.
  • 00:42:58.432 --> 00:43:01.001
  • The rapture, the church which wants to take place
  • 00:43:01.001 --> 00:43:03.470
  • And buying and anybody that sets dates.
  • 00:43:03.470 --> 00:43:06.373
  • It's been happening for hundreds of years.
  • 00:43:06.373 --> 00:43:09.143
  • And when are christians going to wake up?
  • 00:43:09.143 --> 00:43:11.045
  • Things will get better, grandma.
  • 00:43:11.045 --> 00:43:12.279
  • They always do,
  • 00:43:12.279 --> 00:43:13.480
  • But they're going to get a lot worse before they get better.
  • 00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:21.855
  • Rapture is one of those things that you must be prepared for.
  • 00:43:22.990 --> 00:43:26.860
  • Otherwise, you're going to be left behind.
  • 00:43:26.860 --> 00:43:28.595
  • You've been left behind.
  • 00:43:28.595 --> 00:43:31.832
  • The massively successful left behind series of books
  • 00:43:31.832 --> 00:43:35.169
  • Which helped popularize the idea of the end of the world.
  • 00:43:35.169 --> 00:43:38.272
  • The apocalypse, the rapture, even the antichrist.
  • 00:43:38.272 --> 00:43:41.709
  • We're stocking up just in case
  • 00:43:41.709 --> 00:43:44.478
  • You need to know that for two.
  • 00:43:44.478 --> 00:43:51.452
  • And the world seem to still be intact.
  • 00:43:52.286 --> 00:43:55.022
  • Nothing major.
  • 00:43:55.022 --> 00:43:56.323
  • A new judgment day, to be honest.
  • 00:43:56.323 --> 00:43:59.460
  • Harold camping made a lot of excuses about what happened.
  • 00:43:59.460 --> 00:44:02.463
  • They're making a mockery of christianity.
  • 00:44:02.463 --> 00:44:05.099
  • I was wrong.
  • 00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:07.468
  • Give us science for the coming of the end of the age.
  • 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:11.705
  • Vomit used to anti-christ.
  • 00:44:11.705 --> 00:44:13.240
  • Obama is antichrist.
  • 00:44:13.240 --> 00:44:15.075
  • Ancient mayan prophecy.
  • 00:44:15.075 --> 00:44:16.376
  • The world will end in late 2012.
  • 00:44:16.376 --> 00:44:18.679
  • Post rapture, pet care friendly atheists will be alerted
  • 00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:22.249
  • And come to your house and take your pets.
  • 00:44:22.249 --> 00:44:24.384
  • None of us got picked and we're all screwed.
  • 00:44:24.384 --> 00:44:26.186
  • Or great. and i'm gonna go fishing this summer.
  • 00:44:26.186 --> 00:44:31.959
  • Rapture
  • 00:44:32.192 --> 00:44:33.227
  • Theology, this interest in war and the violence.
  • 00:44:33.227 --> 00:44:35.796
  • The end times seems to have an almost addictive power
  • 00:44:35.796 --> 00:44:39.066
  • In our culture.
  • 00:44:39.066 --> 00:44:42.536
  • First
  • 00:44:42.770 --> 00:45:11.799
  • Wow. that means we're going
  • 00:45:12.399 --> 00:45:14.868
  • To get raptured right?
  • 00:45:14.868 --> 00:45:18.005
  • No, never meant that.
  • 00:45:18.005 --> 00:45:21.441
  • My whole life i've heard about the end of days.
  • 00:45:21.441 --> 00:45:25.312
  • How no one knows the day or the hour.
  • 00:45:26.113 --> 00:45:29.516
  • How it will happen in the twinkling of an eye.
  • 00:45:29.516 --> 00:45:32.286
  • But is that what it's really saying?
  • 00:45:33.053 --> 00:45:36.390
  • One day is a very young believer.
  • 00:45:36.390 --> 00:45:38.358
  • Somebody handed me a chick tract,
  • 00:45:38.358 --> 00:45:41.395
  • And it was all about the end times.
  • 00:45:41.395 --> 00:45:44.231
  • The antichrist, six, six, six people being decapitated.
  • 00:45:44.231 --> 00:45:49.169
  • The rapture.
  • 00:45:49.169 --> 00:45:50.204
  • The pope was evil
  • 00:45:50.204 --> 00:45:51.705
  • And there were scripture references throughout.
  • 00:45:51.705 --> 00:45:54.441
  • It seemed like the message was designed by a torturous god
  • 00:45:54.441 --> 00:45:59.713
  • To catch the most of us off guard as possible,
  • 00:45:59.713 --> 00:46:03.450
  • Take the fewest with him and the rest of us go to hell.
  • 00:46:03.450 --> 00:46:07.120
  • That doctrine scared me to death.
  • 00:46:07.120 --> 00:46:09.523
  • Is our planet truly in mortal peril?
  • 00:46:09.523 --> 00:46:13.427
  • Can that really be any substance
  • 00:46:14.061 --> 00:46:16.063
  • Through all those biblical prophecies?
  • 00:46:16.063 --> 00:46:17.998
  • I believe with all my heart
  • 00:46:17.998 --> 00:46:19.700
  • That that's not the story your bible is telling.
  • 00:46:19.700 --> 00:46:21.969
  • In the famous passage
  • 00:46:21.969 --> 00:46:23.370
  • In first thessalonians for which people have built
  • 00:46:23.370 --> 00:46:26.006
  • The rapture theory on.
  • 00:46:26.006 --> 00:46:27.774
  • That's actually a misunderstanding.
  • 00:46:27.774 --> 00:46:29.643
  • This false promise
  • 00:46:29.643 --> 00:46:31.712
  • That somehow we were going to be caught away,
  • 00:46:31.712 --> 00:46:34.781
  • And then the world was going to go to hell in a handbasket.
  • 00:46:34.781 --> 00:46:38.085
  • And, it's just not in scripture.
  • 00:46:38.085 --> 00:46:40.120
  • I'm terrible.
  • 00:46:40.120 --> 00:46:41.088
  • The end of the world
  • 00:46:41.088 --> 00:46:42.122
  • Has come and gone more than once in my lifetime.
  • 00:46:42.122 --> 00:46:45.225
  • I've heard the warnings.
  • 00:46:45.759 --> 00:46:47.561
  • I've seen the signs.
  • 00:46:47.561 --> 00:46:48.762
  • I've watched the movies.
  • 00:46:48.762 --> 00:46:50.864
  • And i've feared being left behind.
  • 00:46:50.864 --> 00:46:53.800
  • My daughter came to me one day and said.
  • 00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:55.369
  • Dad, i just finished reading revelations
  • 00:46:55.369 --> 00:46:58.438
  • And she said, and it's scary.
  • 00:46:58.438 --> 00:47:00.674
  • Is all that stuff going to happen?
  • 00:47:00.674 --> 00:47:03.377
  • A lot of us christians sit in our pews
  • 00:47:03.377 --> 00:47:06.947
  • And these
  • 00:47:06.947 --> 00:47:08.148
  • Great and wonderful people that we follow, that we love,
  • 00:47:08.148 --> 00:47:11.752
  • Have told us things that just will not match up
  • 00:47:11.752 --> 00:47:14.888
  • To an honest and sincere test of scripture.
  • 00:47:14.888 --> 00:47:18.759
  • I don't need you. you don't need.
  • 00:47:19.493 --> 00:47:20.627
  • We don't need to be rescued.
  • 00:47:20.627 --> 00:47:22.829
  • Rescued from what
  • 00:47:22.829 --> 00:47:32.572
  • The hippie movement had happened.
  • 00:47:33.340 --> 00:47:35.075
  • There was a war in vietnam that people were protesting.
  • 00:47:35.075 --> 00:47:37.945
  • A sexual revolution was launched.
  • 00:47:37.945 --> 00:47:40.514
  • At the same time, the overarching background of
  • 00:47:40.514 --> 00:47:43.150
  • It was the cold war with the soviet union.
  • 00:47:43.150 --> 00:47:45.519
  • And so everybody
  • 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:46.753
  • Was anticipating an imminent, possible global nuclear war.
  • 00:47:46.753 --> 00:47:51.825
  • And then here comes hal lindsay with a book
  • 00:47:52.726 --> 00:47:55.028
  • That says that basically we are to expect this.
  • 00:47:55.028 --> 00:47:58.265
  • The world is supposed to get worse and worse.
  • 00:47:58.265 --> 00:48:00.434
  • But then, right when at the very,
  • 00:48:00.434 --> 00:48:01.969
  • Very last moment, as it's super dark,
  • 00:48:01.969 --> 00:48:05.372
  • Jesus is going to come back and set everything right.
  • 00:48:05.372 --> 00:48:08.575
  • That became the message.
  • 00:48:09.109 --> 00:48:11.578
  • Was that rapture that went across
  • 00:48:11.578 --> 00:48:13.981
  • That was intertwined with what?
  • 00:48:13.981 --> 00:48:15.482
  • A charismatic movement,
  • 00:48:15.482 --> 00:48:16.583
  • A pentecostal movement, a lot of good stuff.
  • 00:48:16.583 --> 00:48:19.252
  • The holy spirit coming alive, the jesus movement.
  • 00:48:19.252 --> 00:48:21.855
  • A lot of good stuff.
  • 00:48:21.855 --> 00:48:23.090
  • But because it was there in that print,
  • 00:48:23.090 --> 00:48:25.292
  • The rapture had to be as true as the salvation of jesus christ.
  • 00:48:25.292 --> 00:48:29.463
  • Well, i became absolutely convinced
  • 00:48:29.463 --> 00:48:31.865
  • From the age of about 11 or 12 on
  • 00:48:31.865 --> 00:48:34.501
  • That jesus was coming back within the next year,
  • 00:48:34.501 --> 00:48:38.071
  • If not within the next 15 to 20 minutes.
  • 00:48:38.071 --> 00:48:45.078
  • And a series of preachers,
  • 00:48:45.645 --> 00:48:47.414
  • A revival preachers that came through my church
  • 00:48:47.414 --> 00:48:50.283
  • Reinforced that.
  • 00:48:50.283 --> 00:48:51.618
  • I was a young man without any possibility of a future.
  • 00:48:51.618 --> 00:48:57.224
  • I was a pastor of a church
  • 00:48:57.224 --> 00:48:58.592
  • Right in the middle of the jesus movement.
  • 00:48:58.592 --> 00:49:00.293
  • And all the kids,
  • 00:49:00.293 --> 00:49:01.928
  • When they were reading howard lindsay's
  • 00:49:01.928 --> 00:49:03.296
  • Book on the late great planet earth.
  • 00:49:03.296 --> 00:49:05.699
  • And they don't believe they're going to live
  • 00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:07.000
  • Long enough to get married.
  • 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:08.635
  • So i'm having a hard time making useful disciples
  • 00:49:08.635 --> 00:49:12.572
  • Out of these people who are getting saved
  • 00:49:12.572 --> 00:49:14.141
  • In the jesus movement.
  • 00:49:14.141 --> 00:49:15.809
  • So i read hal lindsay's book, and i remember reading that
  • 00:49:15.809 --> 00:49:19.413
  • And thinking,
  • 00:49:19.413 --> 00:49:20.313
  • If he knows how to read the scripture
  • 00:49:20.313 --> 00:49:22.282
  • And interpret it right, i don't.
  • 00:49:22.282 --> 00:49:24.084
  • They're telling a different story than the one i read.
  • 00:49:24.084 --> 00:49:27.187
  • I actually from pulpits to prime time,
  • 00:49:28.021 --> 00:49:30.757
  • The rapture is labeled gospel truth.
  • 00:49:30.757 --> 00:49:33.994
  • But what if scripture tells another story?
  • 00:49:33.994 --> 00:49:37.230
  • Things are spoken about in very poetic language
  • 00:49:38.231 --> 00:49:41.868
  • Rather than literal language.
  • 00:49:41.868 --> 00:49:43.870
  • Every language has that and every period in history
  • 00:49:43.870 --> 00:49:46.873
  • Has had that.
  • 00:49:46.873 --> 00:49:47.841
  • And the bible also has symbolic language.
  • 00:49:47.841 --> 00:49:51.211
  • If we take those symbols and just draw pictures of them
  • 00:49:51.211 --> 00:49:54.581
  • Without looking
  • 00:49:54.581 --> 00:49:55.816
  • And seeing what they actually meant in the old testament,
  • 00:49:55.816 --> 00:49:58.618
  • We're going to go down the wrong track.
  • 00:49:58.618 --> 00:50:00.187
  • Often in the bible, god uses cosmic collapsing language.
  • 00:50:00.187 --> 00:50:04.825
  • It's never the destruction of planet earth.
  • 00:50:04.825 --> 00:50:07.594
  • We all use apocalyptic language in order to express
  • 00:50:07.594 --> 00:50:10.363
  • What we call earth shattering events on the political scene.
  • 00:50:10.363 --> 00:50:13.867
  • We all call on metaphors, and we use them cheerfully
  • 00:50:13.867 --> 00:50:17.871
  • And freely. the newspapers do it all the time.
  • 00:50:17.871 --> 00:50:19.606
  • We're all scared because we don't know
  • 00:50:19.606 --> 00:50:21.041
  • What on earth is going to happen next.
  • 00:50:21.041 --> 00:50:22.576
  • The problem with the book of revelation
  • 00:50:22.576 --> 00:50:24.511
  • Being taught is a time piece, or a roadmap
  • 00:50:24.511 --> 00:50:28.014
  • For the return of the lord, or even for the church.
  • 00:50:28.014 --> 00:50:31.084
  • It's a danger, and it's dangerous
  • 00:50:31.084 --> 00:50:33.587
  • Because it was never intended to be that.
  • 00:50:33.587 --> 00:50:49.703
  • Most of us today, 21st century
  • 00:50:50.303 --> 00:50:53.974
  • America are pretty historically illiterate.
  • 00:50:53.974 --> 00:50:57.711
  • Well, actually, there is a dramatic event that happened.
  • 00:50:57.711 --> 00:51:01.381
  • Many christians have never heard about it before.
  • 00:51:01.381 --> 00:51:06.486
  • 66 a.d.
  • 00:51:06.720 --> 00:51:08.588
  • The roman armies came
  • 00:51:08.588 --> 00:51:11.491
  • To invade the city of jerusalem.
  • 00:51:11.491 --> 00:51:14.194
  • 40 years previously, jesus had
  • 00:51:14.194 --> 00:51:17.097
  • Predicted and prophesied in matthew 24,
  • 00:51:17.097 --> 00:51:21.034
  • A time of great tribulation
  • 00:51:21.034 --> 00:51:23.670
  • That would happen in judea.
  • 00:51:23.670 --> 00:51:26.406
  • Matthew 24 was to that generation in that time.
  • 00:51:26.406 --> 00:51:29.910
  • In fact, jesus
  • 00:51:29.910 --> 00:51:31.278
  • Explicitly says that he says, and this generation
  • 00:51:31.278 --> 00:51:34.681
  • Will not pass away until they say these things.
  • 00:51:34.681 --> 00:51:37.851
  • Jesus looked at the temple.
  • 00:51:37.851 --> 00:51:39.686
  • Yeah, it's got great stones. but guess what?
  • 00:51:39.686 --> 00:51:41.621
  • They're all going to come down.
  • 00:51:41.621 --> 00:51:42.889
  • And the disciples say, when will that happen?
  • 00:51:42.889 --> 00:51:45.392
  • How will we know?
  • 00:51:45.392 --> 00:51:46.993
  • That's the question.
  • 00:51:46.993 --> 00:51:48.228
  • And everything that follows is the answer to that question.
  • 00:51:48.228 --> 00:51:51.131
  • 20,000 roman soldiers surrounded the hilltops
  • 00:51:51.131 --> 00:51:55.835
  • Around jerusalem
  • 00:51:55.835 --> 00:51:58.672
  • And murdered more than a million jews.
  • 00:51:58.672 --> 00:52:01.675
  • The sacrificial system came to an end.
  • 00:52:01.675 --> 00:52:04.578
  • The temple came to an end.
  • 00:52:04.578 --> 00:52:06.613
  • The priesthood came to an end.
  • 00:52:06.613 --> 00:52:08.915
  • There was no remnant of the old covenant left at all.
  • 00:52:08.915 --> 00:52:13.186
  • And all we had now was the new covenant.
  • 00:52:13.186 --> 00:52:15.956
  • Now we have a new high priest, and now we have a new temple.
  • 00:52:15.956 --> 00:52:20.026
  • The temple now is not made of stones,
  • 00:52:20.026 --> 00:52:23.463
  • But it's made of living human beings.
  • 00:52:23.463 --> 00:52:26.199
  • Well, predictions of the end of the world have come and gone.
  • 00:52:26.199 --> 00:52:29.369
  • Like the rest of the world.
  • 00:52:29.369 --> 00:52:30.937
  • I'm still here.
  • 00:52:30.937 --> 00:52:32.439
  • Waiting for a rescue that never comes.
  • 00:52:32.439 --> 00:52:35.475
  • Scrolling through a doomsday feed of end time prophecy.
  • 00:52:35.475 --> 00:52:38.912
  • And wondering will it ever happen?
  • 00:52:38.912 --> 00:52:41.881
  • I see things.
  • 00:52:41.881 --> 00:52:44.951
  • Get together.
  • 00:52:45.318 --> 00:52:47.187
  • Some of the ideas that i had bought into,
  • 00:52:47.187 --> 00:52:50.490
  • Although you could quote a scripture to go along with it,
  • 00:52:50.490 --> 00:52:54.060
  • It was not the overall teaching of scripture.
  • 00:52:54.060 --> 00:52:58.365
  • The kingdom language is about
  • 00:52:58.999 --> 00:53:00.967
  • The one true god, the god of abraham, isaac, and jacob,
  • 00:53:00.967 --> 00:53:03.837
  • Taking his power and reigning in the whole world.
  • 00:53:03.837 --> 00:53:07.774
  • It's not about hanging there, and one day i'll take you away
  • 00:53:07.774 --> 00:53:10.744
  • From the world to somewhere else.
  • 00:53:10.744 --> 00:53:12.646
  • The overriding belief is satan is god of this world.
  • 00:53:12.646 --> 00:53:16.283
  • Vast majority of news that comes in is bad news.
  • 00:53:16.283 --> 00:53:19.686
  • It's very easy to build on that
  • 00:53:19.686 --> 00:53:22.455
  • And think, oh, the bible's right.
  • 00:53:22.455 --> 00:53:25.258
  • It's all going downhill.
  • 00:53:25.258 --> 00:53:27.060
  • Heaven is not the place to escape from earth.
  • 00:53:27.060 --> 00:53:30.230
  • Heaven is the ceo's office.
  • 00:53:30.230 --> 00:53:31.931
  • It's the place from which earth is run.
  • 00:53:31.931 --> 00:53:34.534
  • And one day, heaven and earth will come together.
  • 00:53:34.534 --> 00:53:38.471
  • It isn't that he will come back and snatch us away.
  • 00:53:38.471 --> 00:53:44.344
  • The bible
  • 00:53:44.644 --> 00:53:45.779
  • Tells most christians in the world today think that
  • 00:53:45.779 --> 00:53:48.181
  • The aim of the whole thing is for our souls to go to heaven.
  • 00:53:48.181 --> 00:53:51.584
  • That's wrong.
  • 00:53:51.951 --> 00:53:53.586
  • The aim of the whole thing is for god's
  • 00:53:53.586 --> 00:53:55.588
  • Love and sovereignty to become real on earth.
  • 00:53:55.588 --> 00:53:58.558
  • As in heaven.
  • 00:53:58.558 --> 00:54:00.093
  • Christ teaching is still the treasure of the world
  • 00:54:00.093 --> 00:54:03.496
  • And an untold number of people vanishing without a trace.
  • 00:54:03.496 --> 00:54:07.500
  • And i can't believe i'm saying this, but i do mean
  • 00:54:07.500 --> 00:54:10.203
  • Vanishing out of thin air.
  • 00:54:10.203 --> 00:54:13.473
  • What could possibly make millions of people disappear
  • 00:54:13.473 --> 00:54:16.276
  • In an instant?
  • 00:54:16.276 --> 00:54:17.711
  • Some are claiming
  • 00:54:17.711 --> 00:54:18.812
  • This is the rapture and event described in the bible.
  • 00:54:18.812 --> 00:54:22.982
  • If so, what does this mean?
  • 00:54:22.982 --> 00:54:24.751
  • As we should.
  • 00:54:24.751 --> 00:54:29.255
  • The overall teaching of scripture
  • 00:54:30.023 --> 00:54:31.424
  • Was much more optimistic that i saw people being
  • 00:54:31.424 --> 00:54:34.527
  • Set free from fear and anxiety about the future
  • 00:54:34.527 --> 00:54:38.431
  • And living much more fulfilled christian lives.
  • 00:54:38.431 --> 00:54:42.035
  • That was when i realized
  • 00:54:42.569 --> 00:54:43.937
  • This is not only true, it's important.
  • 00:54:43.937 --> 00:54:47.741
  • When you take a truth
  • 00:54:48.241 --> 00:54:50.343
  • And put the truth into the wrong text, you distort that text
  • 00:54:50.343 --> 00:54:54.381
  • And you miss what that text was trying to tell you.
  • 00:54:54.381 --> 00:54:57.217
  • My life has been one long attempt to to get out
  • 00:54:57.217 --> 00:55:00.820
  • Of the misinterpretations that i began with
  • 00:55:00.820 --> 00:55:03.256
  • And try to replace them with better interpretations.
  • 00:55:03.256 --> 00:55:06.526
  • It was a painful process to ultimately, piece
  • 00:55:06.526 --> 00:55:09.996
  • By piece, dismantle that view.
  • 00:55:09.996 --> 00:55:14.000
  • I had of the end times.
  • 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.935
  • It's what how lindsay taught.
  • 00:55:15.935 --> 00:55:17.904
  • It's what all the bible teachers
  • 00:55:17.904 --> 00:55:19.806
  • That i knew and had heard taught.
  • 00:55:19.806 --> 00:55:22.142
  • But then i begin to see and embrace a different story.
  • 00:55:22.142 --> 00:55:26.946
  • Unlearning is the hardest form of learning.
  • 00:55:26.946 --> 00:55:31.584
  • We have so diluted,
  • 00:55:31.584 --> 00:55:33.353
  • Devalued, and diminished our christian faith
  • 00:55:33.353 --> 00:55:37.157
  • That it isn't even close to being as great as it can be,
  • 00:55:37.157 --> 00:55:42.429
  • And we need to reform
  • 00:55:42.929 --> 00:55:46.866
  • That faith into its greatness.
  • 00:55:46.866 --> 00:55:49.903
  • With due respect,
  • 00:55:50.336 --> 00:55:51.871
  • I think we've threatened and beat up people long enough
  • 00:55:51.871 --> 00:55:54.474
  • About trying to scare them into the kingdom.
  • 00:55:54.474 --> 00:55:56.342
  • How about an invite into a victorious and glorious
  • 00:55:56.342 --> 00:56:00.680
  • Opportunity to be with the god of the universe forever,
  • 00:56:00.680 --> 00:56:04.617
  • As his favorite sons and daughters?
  • 00:56:04.617 --> 00:56:07.487
  • He's invited us.
  • 00:56:07.487 --> 00:56:08.822
  • This is the moment of fulfillment.
  • 00:56:08.822 --> 00:56:11.224
  • And paul says, now is the time.
  • 00:56:11.224 --> 00:56:12.759
  • Now is the day of salvation. we're not waiting.
  • 00:56:12.759 --> 00:56:15.428
  • God has promised to put the whole world right
  • 00:56:15.428 --> 00:56:18.765
  • In the present time.
  • 00:56:19.232 --> 00:56:20.733
  • He puts us right with him by grace through faith,
  • 00:56:20.733 --> 00:56:25.672
  • So that we can be part of his
  • 00:56:25.672 --> 00:56:28.274
  • Putting right project for the world.
  • 00:56:28.274 --> 00:56:31.644
  • We don't bring the kingdom by our own efforts.
  • 00:56:31.644 --> 00:56:34.414
  • God brings god's kingdom in god's way.
  • 00:56:34.414 --> 00:56:36.483
  • The kingdom is really happening.
  • 00:56:36.483 --> 00:56:37.917
  • Knowing that the king is reigning.
  • 00:56:38.651 --> 00:56:42.322
  • That changes how i get out of bed on monday morning.
  • 00:56:42.322 --> 00:56:45.925
  • I believe that tomorrow his reign will be more evident
  • 00:56:45.925 --> 00:56:49.462
  • Than today.
  • 00:56:49.462 --> 00:56:50.630
  • You know, the reason i think all of this or any of this
  • 00:56:50.630 --> 00:56:52.665
  • Matters is because it's what god wants us to be today,
  • 00:56:52.665 --> 00:56:56.503
  • Not what he wants us to be in the future.
  • 00:56:56.503 --> 00:56:59.072
  • Why in all of this time of eternity
  • 00:56:59.072 --> 00:57:02.041
  • In infinity, did god choose me at this moment?
  • 00:57:02.041 --> 00:57:05.445
  • Why do i live in this moment?
  • 00:57:05.445 --> 00:57:07.614
  • I have no question in my mind that my calling
  • 00:57:07.614 --> 00:57:10.550
  • Is to prepare the way for the coming of the lord.
  • 00:57:10.550 --> 00:57:12.752
  • Jesus is waiting at the right hand of the father
  • 00:57:12.752 --> 00:57:15.922
  • While we put all of his enemies under our foot,
  • 00:57:15.922 --> 00:57:19.592
  • So that he can be welcomed back to a reunited heaven and earth
  • 00:57:19.592 --> 00:57:24.197
  • As king of kings and lord of lords.
  • 00:57:24.197 --> 00:57:26.533
  • That's our assignment.
  • 00:57:26.533 --> 00:57:27.901
  • If we can advance the kingdom until it fills the whole earth,
  • 00:57:27.901 --> 00:57:32.105
  • Then we will build something for our children.
  • 00:57:32.105 --> 00:57:34.941
  • Our grandchildren and for their children.
  • 00:57:34.941 --> 00:57:37.510
  • After them.
  • 00:57:37.510 --> 00:57:38.978
  • What revelations lie in ruin,
  • 00:57:38.978 --> 00:57:41.080
  • Buried just beneath the surface?
  • 00:57:41.080 --> 00:57:44.551
  • And what if we're waiting for a kingdom that's already here?
  • 00:57:44.551 --> 00:57:55.962
  • Oh my goodness, where what?
  • 00:57:56.563 --> 00:57:58.231
  • I start on something like that.
  • 00:57:58.231 --> 00:58:01.668
  • Okay, here we go.
  • 00:58:01.668 --> 00:58:03.736
  • How about we just jump in with both feet?
  • 00:58:03.736 --> 00:58:06.205
  • Ready?
  • 00:58:06.205 --> 00:58:06.205