Praise

N.T. Wright: Future Glory, Present Hope | Praise

July 15, 2025 | S25 E715 | 55:32

Hosted by TBN’s own Matt and Laurie Crouch along with other popular personalities, Praise features the best in contemporary Christian music and worship, fresh and impacting ministry voices, engaging interviews from a wide variety of guests, and a fast-moving hour of relevant talk you won’t want to miss!

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Praise | N.T. Wright: Future Glory, Present Hope | Praise | July 15, 2025

Tonight.
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On praise, join matt and laurie crouch with special guest.
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Nt wright,
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The most respected new testament scholar in the world.
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Jesus already redefines kingship.
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He redefines it on the cross.
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King of the jews above his head.
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This is what royalty looks like.
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Because the son of man came to give his life.
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N.t. wright has been called the c.s.
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Lewis of our generation.
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He is also the bestselling author of nearly 100 books,
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Including surprised by hope and simply good news.
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For god to be king means god is going
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To sort everything out on earth as in heaven.
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Heaven is not the place to escape from earth and heaven.
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It's the place from which earth is run.
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And one day heaven and earth will come together.
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We don't bring the kingdom by our own efforts.
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God brings god's kingdom in god's way.
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Jesus coming to be with us is not a temporary thing.
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That was god. god's coming home.
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This is what the kingdom of god happening in the present
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Looks like.
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Would a clap help?
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Yeah. sure. okay.
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He is a prominent theologian and scholar, but n.t.
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Wright is not some dusty
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Academic poring over books in a dimly lit library.
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He is accessible. he is compassionate.
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Young people line up for hours to meet him, to hear him preach,
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To get their copies of his book signed.
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He is stopped on the street by those who say his words
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Have changed their lives.
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Somehow he has managed to do the impossible.
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He is both a serious theologian and a kind hearted pastor.
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Even when he was told
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He would have to choose between the two.
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Doctor wright has multiple degrees
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From oxford university, including two doctoral degrees.
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He's taught at mcgill university in montreal,
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Oxford university and saint andrews in scotland.
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And while he's been
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Called the rock star theologian of our generation,
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He is also a man of the cloth, a man of the people.
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He was ordained as an anglican priest in 1976
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And has served as the bishop of durham,
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One of the highest positions in the church of england.
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Even as a bishop, he could be found ministering
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In the poorest neighborhoods of the united kingdom.
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These days, doctor
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Wright continues to write and speak and teach.
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He is a senior research fellow at wycliffe university, oxford.
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N.t. wright's dual callings have become his legacy.
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A scholar with a heart of flesh,
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A pastor with the firmest of foundations.
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The end result, says christianity today magazine,
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Is this.
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When nt wright speaks, preaches or writes,
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Folks say they see jesus and lives are transformed.
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Brother nt
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Wright, please tell us where we are today.
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We are here in the wonderful lanier theological library
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And the brainchild of mark lanier beautiful.
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Put this all together over the last decade or two.
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You see, your books everywhere?
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Yes. it's awesome.
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You know, let's,
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Do something right out of the gate here on praise.
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First of all, welcome to houston, texas.
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Thank you.
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We're going to get into
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Some eschatology matters.
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And but before we get kind of
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Right into the nitty gritty with some, you know, actually
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Prepared questions, which i don't normally do,
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But i thought
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Because i was coming to this theological library here,
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The lanier
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Theological library,
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That i thought i would actually put some questions down.
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But let's start with this kind of overview.
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You were telling me that western christianity
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Adopted some
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Dispensationalism,
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Eschatology theories,
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And we are a bit alone
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In the world in that we
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We came to the conclusion together that one of our main
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People that had a tv show on tbn for many, many years was hal
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Lindsay, who wrote late great planet earth, who largely
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Was responsible for bringing a fervor
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Of dispensational,
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You know, theo theology because of the timing,
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1948, israel became a nation, generation.
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All these things will be fulfilled
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If you read the bible as a futurist.
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If you take most of revelation
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And most of the all of it discourse
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And some of daniel and, and and take it into the future,
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Which i would have to largely say nt
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Is the majority likely of the people viewing right now.
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Yeah. yeah. so let's
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Be kind.
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But but direct, in regard to what you're
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Really trying to help us understand here.
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You know, i feel a bit about this.
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Like, i feel when i come to america
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And watch, say, a game of baseball on television, and i.
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I know that you have a thing called the world series.
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Yes, i noticed that only american teams play.
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Which.
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And i said this once in a lecture,
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And somebody came up to me afterwards and said,
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Don't you realize that that's
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Because there was a newspaper sponsoring it.
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It was called the new york world.
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And and i think that rather makes my point.
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Yeah.
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And, the this is very much an american preoccupation,
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Not western in the sense
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That there are not that many people in germany,
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France, italy, spain who would embrace
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The dispensation as to there are always some.
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Many of them actually
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Probably were trained at the moody bible institute
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Or somewhere and have come back over to europe.
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But then, the thing is this
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Dispensationalism has a long and interesting history.
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There's a new book
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Just out called the rise and fall of dispensationalism,
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And i strongly recommend it because the
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History is fascinating from the 18th century
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Starting points, then through the work of
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Jn darby,
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Particularly and, and then the scofield reference bible.
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And this was always very much a dualist view
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That looking at the mainstream
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Churches, roman catholic, anglican, as hopelessly corrupt,
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And hence
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There are only a few of us real believers left and so on.
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And then,
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What was the religion of a small minority,
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When it came to america, became popular
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And for all sorts of cultural and social reasons became now,
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As you say, the religion, if not of the majority,
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Because perhaps the majority of these days are basically,
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Moral therapeutic.
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Deists rather than anything
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More specific, specifically like dispensationalism,
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But that, that
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This is, this is not even known much about in britain.
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I mean, when
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We had the second gulf war, a lot of the rhetoric in america
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Was very much driven by the dispensation
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Of this thing that saddam hussein
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Had been opposed to the present state of israel.
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Therefore, we had to defend that, etc.
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People in britain simply didn't understand
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The hinterland of theological speculation.
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That was driving many in, in the bush white house at the time.
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And, and many of the supporters whose instinct was, yeah,
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Israel is god's, flag were a flag bearer.
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But by the way, 1948 was a good year.
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That's the year i was born.
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So never mind other things.
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The important moment in the history of the world.
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But, so, so it's actually very confusing because america
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Takes the lead in so many issues in the world or has done,
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But the thought that
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Some of that foreign policy is driven by,
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What was a very strange minority reading of some parts
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Of the new testament going against what other parts
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Of the new testament, i would say, clearly teach.
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This is really very worrying.
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And because most people in britain don't imagine that
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That theology has anything to do with realpolitik,
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They don't realize what's actually been going on.
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And so i find this really very disturbing.
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And we we need, you know, the answer is better
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Reading of scripture.
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And that's what i've been trying to devote my life to.
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You're a theologian and you go into granular.
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I'm a 70,000ft storyteller. okay.
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So let me just kind of rehearse and say what i think you said.
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America through the footnotes in a scofield bible,
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Largely took
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John darby's mid 1800s
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Theory
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And biblical interpretation.
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It became footnotes in a scofield bible,
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I think second edition, just after,
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Early 20th century.
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And that then became a movement in america.
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But america largely is alone in that worldview.
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So the church
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I would have grown up in, which was the assemblies of god,
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The baptist denomination,
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You're kind of dyed in the wool blue
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Kind of baptist or or assemblies,
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You believe dispensation or theology, and that shapes
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Everything you think about really the end times and
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And and so on.
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But darby's interpretation
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Stands alone in all of church history.
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In one category.
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We discuss this briefly off camera
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That he took the kingdom age
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That we are currently living in largely needed to rename it.
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So a church age kind of got created
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And he
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Took the kingdom, put it way out here in the future,
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Back in the hands of jesus, only to return it when he comes,
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In a second return kind of dynamic.
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My understanding was his disdain for the hypocrisy
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Of the catholic church in his day.
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He was, let's say, able to
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Justify that radical reinterpretation of scripture
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Because he couldn't accept the catholic church as a part
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Of the legitimate kingdom of god on earth in his day.
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That all makes sense, and particularly because
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John darby was, i think, a disaffected,
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Anglican minister in ireland who then came to england,
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Anglican minister in ireland who then came to england,
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Then went to america.
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And the particular history of english,
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Christianity and irish christianity
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Has been very conflicted
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Going back to our civil war in the 1640s
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And the work of oliver cromwell, etc., etc. and,
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The catholic church ever since then in ireland
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And the protestants ever since
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And in ireland have their own particular history,
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Which has been complicated and fraught and has produced
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A lot of violence as well. and so,
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It's as though,
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One frustrated, and angry,
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Minister who probably is quite right
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About a lot of abuses in mainstream churches.
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I mean, i come from mainstream church.
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I am not dewy eyed about its many failures and problems.
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But the idea that therefore you have to construct a
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Whole system which says will the age of the church
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Is completely different and the kingdom is postponed.
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This just seems to me
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If your fundamental principle is that we believe in
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The inspiration of scripture, that it's god given them, that's
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Where we must make our start, then this simply won't work.
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But you can't postpone the kingdom like that.
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You then have to live with, as the book of acts does,
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The ambiguities of real church life.
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It's not that the church and the kingdom of the same thing,
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Because they're not.
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The church is the people who are supposed
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To be bearing witness to the kingdom.
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The church is the people through whom god, by his holy
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Spirit, is supposed to be doing kingdom ish things
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In order to show the world that jesus is, in fact, lord.
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This is all straight
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Out of ephesians, actually, if you would.
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And then i would say that wouldn't be.
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What's the correct way to look at eschatology?
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Eschatology,
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Literally, it means,
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The science of the end or an end.
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Eschaton in greek is last or end.
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Different theologians have used that word
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In radically different ways.
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And i've got a whole book
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Called history of eschatology, which has a lot of stuff
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On that.
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But basically, if you look at the bible,
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There is one great hope, which is that one day
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The earth shall be full of the glory of god as the waters cover
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The sea.
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You've got that in isaiah 11.
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You've got it in habakkuk two.
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You've got at the end of psalm 72, you've
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Got it in that fascinating passage in numbers 14,
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The whole earth will be full of either
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The knowledge of the lord or the glory of the lord.
00:13:41.610 --> 00:13:44.079
And for me, growing up as a western christian,
00:13:44.079 --> 00:13:47.049
In the platonic mode in britain,
00:13:47.049 --> 00:13:50.552
This always just seemed like a nice metaphor for will.
00:13:50.552 --> 00:13:53.422
We actually know that the end of the story
00:13:53.422 --> 00:13:54.823
Is we're all going to heaven?
00:13:54.823 --> 00:13:55.925
Or at least the christians
00:13:55.925 --> 00:13:57.126
Are going to heaven, or somebody is going to heaven.
00:13:57.126 --> 00:13:59.194
But actually that the old testament doesn't say that.
00:13:59.194 --> 00:14:01.964
And so people then think, well, maybe
00:14:01.964 --> 00:14:03.666
The old testament was just about land and people,
00:14:03.666 --> 00:14:06.001
And then the new testament is all about how to go to heaven.
00:14:06.001 --> 00:14:09.138
No, the new testament draws on precisely
00:14:09.138 --> 00:14:12.641
Those old testament passages which speak about god's renewal
00:14:12.641 --> 00:14:16.078
Of all creation and say, that's what's good.
00:14:16.078 --> 00:14:19.248
That's what the resurrection is all about.
00:14:19.248 --> 00:14:20.883
This is the renewal of the good creation
00:14:20.883 --> 00:14:24.053
Starting, launching with jesus and with his resurrection now
00:14:24.053 --> 00:14:27.723
Energized by the spirit.
00:14:27.723 --> 00:14:29.425
And then so for me, one of the great strap lines
00:14:29.425 --> 00:14:33.195
In the new testament
00:14:33.195 --> 00:14:34.330
Is ephesians chapter one, verse ten, where paul says,
00:14:34.330 --> 00:14:37.099
God's plan from the beginning was to sum up in
00:14:37.099 --> 00:14:39.969
The messiah all things in heaven and on earth.
00:14:39.969 --> 00:14:43.205
And i've often said,
00:14:43.205 --> 00:14:44.239
If the protestant reformers had made ephesians
00:14:44.239 --> 00:14:45.975
Rather than romans or galatians their main
00:14:45.975 --> 00:14:48.410
Go to text, the whole history
00:14:48.410 --> 00:14:50.312
Of the western world would have been different,
00:14:50.312 --> 00:14:52.281
Because they were able to read romans and galatians
00:14:52.281 --> 00:14:54.616
In the light of medieval platonism, which was somehow
00:14:54.616 --> 00:14:58.554
Paul must be talking about going to heaven.
00:14:58.554 --> 00:15:00.689
So the justification theory is about going to heaven.
00:15:00.689 --> 00:15:03.592
The other strap line, revelation 21, verse three,
00:15:03.592 --> 00:15:06.795
It's not about the dwelling of humans is with god.
00:15:06.795 --> 00:15:09.631
It's the dwelling of god is with humans.
00:15:09.631 --> 00:15:11.300
And that's what so the john 114 and john 316.
00:15:11.300 --> 00:15:16.105
Yes, i've got a funny story about that,
00:15:16.105 --> 00:15:17.740
Maybe for another time.
00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:18.640
But john 114
00:15:18.640 --> 00:15:20.309
The word became flesh and pitched his tent in our midst.
00:15:20.309 --> 00:15:24.380
Ascanius and in greek is a tent word.
00:15:24.380 --> 00:15:27.182
So it's about the tabernacle in the wilderness.
00:15:27.182 --> 00:15:29.385
Only now it's jesus is the place where the glory of god
00:15:29.385 --> 00:15:33.155
Has come to dwell, not as a temporary phenomenon,
00:15:33.155 --> 00:15:36.091
To scoop us up and take us away somewhere else, but to launch
00:15:36.091 --> 00:15:40.262
A god's glory on earth as in heaven project.
00:15:40.262 --> 00:15:43.499
Does that make sense? beautiful.
00:15:43.499 --> 00:15:45.467
We want to get
00:15:45.801 --> 00:15:46.735
A specific comment on the story of israel.
00:15:46.735 --> 00:15:49.772
Yeah.
00:15:49.772 --> 00:15:50.906
And you wrote to say the kingdom of god is at hand.
00:15:50.906 --> 00:15:54.643
Makes sense only when the hearers know the story.
00:15:54.643 --> 00:15:58.280
So far and are waiting for it to be completed.
00:15:58.280 --> 00:16:02.618
Okay, so what do you mean by that exactly?
00:16:02.618 --> 00:16:04.987
Okay.
00:16:04.987 --> 00:16:06.255
In first century writings from the judean people,
00:16:06.255 --> 00:16:09.691
And i'm thinking particularly of the historian josephus,
00:16:09.691 --> 00:16:12.494
But several other passages as well, going way back
00:16:12.494 --> 00:16:16.098
To the time of, of the canon of the old testament.
00:16:16.098 --> 00:16:19.268
We we have the language of god being or becoming king.
00:16:20.302 --> 00:16:24.506
You see it in the psalms.
00:16:25.074 --> 00:16:26.108
The lord is king.
00:16:26.108 --> 00:16:27.042
He has put on his glorious apparel.
00:16:27.042 --> 00:16:28.477
He's robed himself, he's taken his throne, he's in charge.
00:16:28.477 --> 00:16:32.281
And then we look around at the world and say,
00:16:32.281 --> 00:16:34.316
Doesn't look as though god is king of the moment.
00:16:34.316 --> 00:16:36.752
Lots of bad stuff happening.
00:16:36.752 --> 00:16:38.554
They say, well, we're celebrating now in the temple.
00:16:38.554 --> 00:16:41.757
What is going to be the reality in the future?
00:16:41.757 --> 00:16:44.226
And again and again
00:16:44.226 --> 00:16:45.594
We see this to
00:16:45.594 --> 00:16:46.929
And fro that the temple is the sign of the new creation.
00:16:46.929 --> 00:16:50.432
So if god is being enthroned on the praises of his people
00:16:50.432 --> 00:16:53.402
In the temple, this is a sign of what is going to happen.
00:16:53.402 --> 00:16:56.872
And so the the coming kingdom,
00:16:56.872 --> 00:17:00.042
Is, you know, obviously,
00:17:00.576 --> 00:17:02.911
Lots and lots of old testament prophetic passages.
00:17:02.911 --> 00:17:05.214
Isaiah 52, classic.
00:17:05.214 --> 00:17:07.916
How lovely on the mountains, the feet of those
00:17:07.916 --> 00:17:09.718
Who published salvation, who say to zion,
00:17:09.718 --> 00:17:11.753
Your god reigns, this is the kingdom of god.
00:17:11.753 --> 00:17:15.390
And then you bring that forward to the first century,
00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:18.660
And you have some judeans who are looking for
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:22.197
The coming of a messiah,
00:17:22.197 --> 00:17:23.966
Some who are happy to settle down with the herod
00:17:23.966 --> 00:17:26.535
That we've got, and possibly caesar,
00:17:26.535 --> 00:17:28.437
Because maybe god has raised up caesar.
00:17:28.437 --> 00:17:30.706
So maybe we better live with this.
00:17:30.706 --> 00:17:32.641
But there are others who are saying, no, no, no,
00:17:32.641 --> 00:17:34.643
We don't want any of this.
00:17:34.643 --> 00:17:35.878
We want god to be king.
00:17:35.878 --> 00:17:38.280
And what do they mean by we want god to be king?
00:17:38.280 --> 00:17:40.983
Number one, we want to get rid of the romans.
00:17:40.983 --> 00:17:42.851
We don't want to be paying them taxes. they're pagans.
00:17:42.851 --> 00:17:45.320
They're inflicting their pagan ways of life on us.
00:17:45.320 --> 00:17:47.823
We want to be free of that because we want to be able
00:17:47.823 --> 00:17:50.893
To serve our god freely, to keep his law perfectly.
00:17:50.893 --> 00:17:54.763
And we can't do that
00:17:54.763 --> 00:17:55.898
While the romans are trampling on us
00:17:55.898 --> 00:17:57.399
And inflicting their laws on us, etc..
00:17:57.399 --> 00:17:59.501
So for god to be king means
00:17:59.501 --> 00:18:02.471
God is going to sort everything out on earth as in heaven.
00:18:02.471 --> 00:18:06.808
We know that god
00:18:06.808 --> 00:18:07.943
Is already ruling in his sphere, which is heaven.
00:18:07.943 --> 00:18:11.146
We want that heavenly rule
00:18:11.146 --> 00:18:13.916
To become a reality right where we are, which means,
00:18:13.916 --> 00:18:18.253
Social, political, cultural, religious, the whole darn thing.
00:18:18.253 --> 00:18:22.658
And so then different
00:18:23.158 --> 00:18:26.128
Revolutionary and messianic groups in the first century,
00:18:26.128 --> 00:18:29.598
Are saying, come with me, and the kingdom of god will happen.
00:18:29.598 --> 00:18:33.001
March with me down to, to, the river jordan.
00:18:33.001 --> 00:18:35.938
And god will make miracles happen
00:18:35.938 --> 00:18:37.272
And this will be the coming of the kingdom, etc.
00:18:37.272 --> 00:18:39.241
In the middle of that, we have this young prophet
00:18:39.241 --> 00:18:41.610
Turning up where his cousin is baptizing people
00:18:41.610 --> 00:18:44.479
And they are starting the real kingdom of god
00:18:44.479 --> 00:18:48.650
And when mark tells the story of matthew,
00:18:48.650 --> 00:18:51.019
Luke and john pick it up.
00:18:51.019 --> 00:18:53.222
They're telling the story of
00:18:53.222 --> 00:18:55.791
Yes, this is the kingdom of god arriving.
00:18:55.791 --> 00:18:58.493
But no, it doesn't look quite like you imagined.
00:18:58.493 --> 00:19:01.763
Now here's the thing
00:19:01.763 --> 00:19:03.465
Most western christians would recognize what i just said
00:19:03.465 --> 00:19:07.069
And say.
00:19:07.069 --> 00:19:07.636
Yeah.
00:19:07.636 --> 00:19:08.804
In other words, the judean people, the jews, if you like,
00:19:08.804 --> 00:19:11.640
Were expecting of this world, the kingdom.
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:13.508
And obviously
00:19:13.508 --> 00:19:14.676
Jesus is now telling us it's another world, the kingdom.
00:19:14.676 --> 00:19:17.246
Absolutely wrong.
00:19:17.246 --> 00:19:19.047
They are expecting a kingdom which will be launched
00:19:19.047 --> 00:19:21.550
Through the ordinary means of military revolution, or
00:19:21.550 --> 00:19:24.820
Perhaps dramatic divine action to kill people and do all that.
00:19:24.820 --> 00:19:28.590
Jesus is saying, no, the kingdom of god happens like this,
00:19:28.590 --> 00:19:33.028
Like a man going and sowing seed in a field,
00:19:33.028 --> 00:19:35.464
Like a father who had two sons like this, like that.
00:19:35.464 --> 00:19:38.433
And then finally saying,
00:19:38.433 --> 00:19:40.435
Through israel's messiah, going to a shameful death
00:19:40.435 --> 00:19:43.138
To take the sins of the world upon himself.
00:19:43.138 --> 00:19:45.707
But it's still the same vision
00:19:45.707 --> 00:19:48.110
That god is going to
00:19:48.577 --> 00:19:49.444
Become king on earth is in heaven.
00:19:49.444 --> 00:19:52.814
He got to the end of that right there, and i and i realized
00:19:53.982 --> 00:19:57.185
I had this big dumb grin on my face, and i, i,
00:19:57.185 --> 00:20:01.490
I, i realized that i'm sitting here
00:20:02.257 --> 00:20:04.860
In this beautiful library with, you know, nt wright yeah.
00:20:04.860 --> 00:20:10.499
And and.
00:20:10.499 --> 00:20:12.200
Yeah, seriously, it's it.
00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:13.802
And it's a beautiful day here.
00:20:13.802 --> 00:20:16.972
With nt wright in this beautiful library,
00:20:16.972 --> 00:20:19.441
We have a fire burning, and we're discussing,
00:20:19.441 --> 00:20:23.412
Important matters of the kingdom of god.
00:20:23.412 --> 00:20:26.114
So this is a good day in my book.
00:20:26.114 --> 00:20:28.917
Welcome.
00:20:28.917 --> 00:20:29.551
If you're viewing praise,
00:20:29.551 --> 00:20:32.087
Brother nt wright.
00:20:32.087 --> 00:20:33.422
You've come from the the other land,
00:20:33.422 --> 00:20:35.991
And you are across the sea.
00:20:35.991 --> 00:20:37.559
And you're in houston with us today.
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:39.061
And, we hope that,
00:20:39.061 --> 00:20:41.196
You're you feel welcome here in america.
00:20:42.064 --> 00:20:44.232
Indeed. thank you.
00:20:44.232 --> 00:20:45.167
And we will have some tea for you later.
00:20:45.167 --> 00:20:48.270
Good.
00:20:48.270 --> 00:20:48.970
So that you'll feel comfortable.
00:20:48.970 --> 00:20:51.273
I think you said it earlier.
00:20:51.273 --> 00:20:52.874
Most people know you as a new testament scholar.
00:20:52.874 --> 00:20:55.977
And your main work on the resurrection and paul is,
00:20:55.977 --> 00:20:58.580
Is is kind of the, let's say a lot of your books are on that,
00:20:58.580 --> 00:21:03.819
But what do you believe was jesus own
00:21:03.819 --> 00:21:05.420
But what do you believe was jesus own
00:21:05.420 --> 00:21:07.923
Understanding of his vocation and calling?
00:21:07.923 --> 00:21:11.693
What did he come here to do?
00:21:11.693 --> 00:21:13.028
What did he come here to do?
00:21:13.028 --> 00:21:15.364
Okay, a jesus baptism.
00:21:15.831 --> 00:21:19.267
There is a voice heard from heaven,
00:21:19.267 --> 00:21:21.470
And the voice seems to be a combination
00:21:21.470 --> 00:21:24.072
Of two biblical passages, psalm two and isaiah 42.
00:21:24.072 --> 00:21:28.143
Psalm two, you of my son, this day of i begotten
00:21:28.143 --> 00:21:31.213
You ask of me, and i will give you the nations
00:21:31.213 --> 00:21:33.181
For your inheritance,
00:21:33.181 --> 00:21:34.282
The uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.
00:21:34.282 --> 00:21:37.052
Isaiah 42.
00:21:37.052 --> 00:21:38.086
Behold, my servant, in whom i delight, my chosen
00:21:38.086 --> 00:21:40.622
One, on whom my favor rests, and he will bring god's justice.
00:21:40.622 --> 00:21:44.659
Mish parts in hebrew to the to the nations.
00:21:44.659 --> 00:21:47.362
So in both of those passages, there is a sense that
00:21:47.362 --> 00:21:51.400
The one who is now to be the true king of israel
00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:56.371
Is also thereby going to be the one through whom the creator
00:21:56.371 --> 00:22:01.309
God will rescue the world, put the whole world right.
00:22:01.309 --> 00:22:05.847
I mean, fascinating in psalm two to write from that moment
00:22:05.847 --> 00:22:09.050
Of jesus baptism when psalm two is quoted.
00:22:09.050 --> 00:22:11.153
Psalm two is one of the favorite early christian texts.
00:22:11.153 --> 00:22:13.922
Psalm two is the extension of the abrahamic
00:22:13.922 --> 00:22:16.958
Promise of the land to the whole world.
00:22:16.958 --> 00:22:20.262
God says to abraham, i'll give you the land
00:22:20.262 --> 00:22:22.864
As your inheritance, your possession.
00:22:22.864 --> 00:22:24.699
God says to david, i will give you the nations,
00:22:24.699 --> 00:22:27.602
The uttermost parts of the earth.
00:22:27.602 --> 00:22:29.471
From there on all the way to romans eight and revelation,
00:22:29.471 --> 00:22:32.941
The whole world is god's holy land,
00:22:32.941 --> 00:22:37.345
And jesus is anointed in order to be king of israel,
00:22:37.345 --> 00:22:42.651
And therefore king of the whole world.
00:22:42.651 --> 00:22:45.520
And the world was not expecting a king of the jews.
00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:48.757
But this is the ancient israelite expectation
00:22:48.757 --> 00:22:52.227
That when god finally sends a true davidic king,
00:22:52.227 --> 00:22:57.098
He won't just be a king for israel,
00:22:57.098 --> 00:22:59.367
It will be for the whole world.
00:22:59.367 --> 00:23:00.435
So always there's this outward look,
00:23:00.435 --> 00:23:03.104
And that's why, i mean, there are lovely moments,
00:23:04.105 --> 00:23:06.308
Like when jesus is crucified in mark's gospel,
00:23:06.308 --> 00:23:09.811
It's a roman centurion at the foot of the cross
00:23:09.811 --> 00:23:13.682
Who says, truly, this man was son of god,
00:23:13.682 --> 00:23:17.219
Which links up with the voice of jesus baptism.
00:23:17.219 --> 00:23:20.355
And also this is a roman centurion
00:23:20.355 --> 00:23:23.525
Who has got in his pocket coins with caesar's image on.
00:23:23.525 --> 00:23:27.662
And caesar was son of god because caesar's
00:23:27.662 --> 00:23:31.600
Father augustus adopted father had been divinities.
00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:35.770
So it's a way of saying, okay, caesar,
00:23:35.770 --> 00:23:39.875
We hear what you say,
00:23:40.375 --> 00:23:41.443
But actually there is a true son of the true god.
00:23:41.443 --> 00:23:44.379
And this is
00:23:44.379 --> 00:23:45.947
How the gospel is designed to be for the whole world.
00:23:45.947 --> 00:23:49.417
So because he is the king of israel,
00:23:49.417 --> 00:23:51.553
The king of the jews above his head, as i said,
00:23:51.553 --> 00:23:53.989
He is the king for the whole world, and that's
00:23:53.989 --> 00:23:56.858
Jesus believed that this kingship
00:23:56.858 --> 00:24:00.896
Would be attained and implemented through his own
00:24:00.896 --> 00:24:06.368
Inauguration of the kingdom, through healing,
00:24:06.368 --> 00:24:08.470
Through teaching, etc., but then through his own suffering.
00:24:08.470 --> 00:24:12.240
This is a different model of kingship
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.643
To anything the world had imagined.
00:24:14.643 --> 00:24:16.878
But that is plain as anything in the text.
00:24:16.878 --> 00:24:20.482
We're going to stay on the
00:24:21.049 --> 00:24:21.917
Kingdom of god, subject here.
00:24:21.917 --> 00:24:24.953
The kingdom of god or the kingdom of heaven
00:24:24.953 --> 00:24:28.623
As quaint terms,
00:24:29.024 --> 00:24:31.793
We think that they're quaint terms
00:24:31.793 --> 00:24:33.662
That somehow affect our afterlife.
00:24:33.662 --> 00:24:35.697
You wrote that that those phrases meant nothing
00:24:35.697 --> 00:24:38.833
Of the sort in jesus's world.
00:24:38.833 --> 00:24:42.837
What did the first century jewish people understand
00:24:42.837 --> 00:24:46.841
Of the kingdom level language to be referenced to?
00:24:46.841 --> 00:24:52.047
The kingdom language is about the one true
00:24:52.047 --> 00:24:54.950
God, the god of abraham, isaac, and jacob
00:24:54.950 --> 00:24:58.253
Taking his power and reigning in the whole world.
00:24:58.253 --> 00:25:02.223
It's isaiah 52 seven and 13, 7 to 12.
00:25:02.223 --> 00:25:05.794
As i said before.
00:25:05.794 --> 00:25:07.662
Your god reigns.
00:25:07.662 --> 00:25:09.030
And what's the proof
00:25:09.030 --> 00:25:09.764
That god is in charge
00:25:09.764 --> 00:25:10.932
Is that babylon is overthrown and the people get to go
00:25:10.932 --> 00:25:13.335
Home and god is coming back in person.
00:25:13.335 --> 00:25:15.270
That's the kingdom of god.
00:25:15.270 --> 00:25:17.038
It's not about,
00:25:17.038 --> 00:25:18.640
Hang in there and one day i'll take you away
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:20.575
From the world to somewhere else.
00:25:20.575 --> 00:25:22.110
Because the word heaven
00:25:22.110 --> 00:25:24.179
Is a reverent way of speaking about god himself.
00:25:24.179 --> 00:25:28.583
Rather than saying god, just talk about heaven.
00:25:28.583 --> 00:25:31.052
It's like in the book of daniel,
00:25:31.052 --> 00:25:32.587
And that you, nebuchadnezzar, may know that heaven rules.
00:25:32.587 --> 00:25:36.424
Heaven is not the place to escape from earth.
00:25:36.424 --> 00:25:39.661
Heaven is, as i've often said, the heaven is the ceo's office.
00:25:39.661 --> 00:25:43.031
It's the place from which earth is run,
00:25:43.031 --> 00:25:45.600
And one day heaven and earth will come together.
00:25:45.600 --> 00:25:49.204
That's revelation, that's ephesians one, etc., etc..
00:25:49.204 --> 00:25:53.642
So the idea of the kingdom of heaven or kingdom of god
00:25:53.642 --> 00:25:56.945
Is about the strange way in which god's sovereign
00:25:56.945 --> 00:26:02.417
Saving rule
00:26:02.417 --> 00:26:04.486
Is going to become instantiated on earth, as in heaven.
00:26:04.486 --> 00:26:08.323
And and you know, that's what jesus is doing the whole time.
00:26:08.323 --> 00:26:11.092
The kingdom of god is at hand.
00:26:11.092 --> 00:26:12.327
What on earth does that mean?
00:26:12.327 --> 00:26:13.528
Well, he tells these stories, these parables, they say,
00:26:13.528 --> 00:26:15.630
Or he goes and has a party with all the wrong people,
00:26:15.630 --> 00:26:18.833
Or he tells off all the right people, or he
00:26:18.833 --> 00:26:22.137
Does extraordinary acts of healing
00:26:22.871 --> 00:26:25.173
To show that god's kingdom is about new love, new life,
00:26:25.173 --> 00:26:29.344
New redemption, breaking in into the here and now.
00:26:29.344 --> 00:26:33.181
These are not acted parables of us leaving the world
00:26:33.181 --> 00:26:36.251
And going to have the acted parables of god's saving love
00:26:36.251 --> 00:26:40.021
Changing real life on earth.
00:26:40.622 --> 00:26:43.591
It feels like, you know, halfway
00:26:43.591 --> 00:26:46.394
Into our discussion today that
00:26:46.394 --> 00:26:51.232
More times than not,
00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:55.036
The kingdom of god or even
00:26:55.603 --> 00:26:59.107
Some christians understanding of it,
00:26:59.107 --> 00:27:01.676
It seems like we've just realistically
00:27:01.676 --> 00:27:05.714
Gotten things pretty dynamically wrong a lot of times.
00:27:06.781 --> 00:27:10.485
Yeah, i,
00:27:10.485 --> 00:27:12.620
I sometimes get embarrassed
00:27:12.620 --> 00:27:13.755
When i want to say precisely that,
00:27:13.755 --> 00:27:15.090
But i do want to say precisely that.
00:27:15.090 --> 00:27:16.958
I think i mentioned last time we met, i've got a new book
00:27:16.958 --> 00:27:19.260
Coming out,
00:27:19.260 --> 00:27:20.161
Which is i just did the second proofs for
00:27:20.161 --> 00:27:21.863
It is coming out, god willing, in next spring
00:27:21.863 --> 00:27:24.232
Called god's homecoming.
00:27:24.232 --> 00:27:26.034
That and i begin the book by saying, most christians
00:27:26.034 --> 00:27:27.102
That and i begin the book by saying, most christians
00:27:27.102 --> 00:27:29.738
In the world today
00:27:29.738 --> 00:27:30.538
Think that the aim of the whole thing
00:27:30.538 --> 00:27:31.406
Think that the aim of the whole thing
00:27:31.406 --> 00:27:32.207
Is for our souls to go to heaven.
00:27:32.207 --> 00:27:34.042
That's wrong.
00:27:34.042 --> 00:27:34.876
The aim of the whole thing is
00:27:34.876 --> 00:27:36.077
For god's love and sovereignty to become real on earth.
00:27:36.077 --> 00:27:39.881
As in heaven.
00:27:39.881 --> 00:27:41.049
And jesus coming to be with us is not a temporary thing.
00:27:41.049 --> 00:27:44.853
That was god. god's coming home.
00:27:44.853 --> 00:27:47.956
And then particularly the the holy spirit
00:27:47.956 --> 00:27:50.959
In acts chapter two, coming to dwell in the house
00:27:50.959 --> 00:27:54.362
And in the disciples.
00:27:54.362 --> 00:27:55.530
This is like the scene in the tabernacle in exodus 40,
00:27:55.530 --> 00:27:58.633
Or in the temple in first kings eight, when god comes to dwell
00:27:58.633 --> 00:28:02.437
With his people, this is what god always wanted to do.
00:28:02.437 --> 00:28:05.673
Giving the holy spirit is not a way of saying
00:28:06.608 --> 00:28:08.810
You guys need a bit of a leg up,
00:28:08.810 --> 00:28:10.178
So i'll just give you my spirit and that'll help you move
00:28:10.178 --> 00:28:12.447
On through life.
00:28:12.447 --> 00:28:13.548
It's a way of god coming to take residence
00:28:13.548 --> 00:28:17.018
Where he always wanted to take residence.
00:28:17.018 --> 00:28:19.420
I find that very powerful myself.
00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:21.856
You know, sometimes i just think
00:28:21.856 --> 00:28:24.425
This is going to take forever
00:28:24.425 --> 00:28:26.528
To understand this world or to change people's minds.
00:28:26.528 --> 00:28:30.131
You know.
00:28:30.131 --> 00:28:30.865
We have that problem.
00:28:30.865 --> 00:28:31.866
I mean, i've heard students say this,
00:28:31.866 --> 00:28:35.303
Not just about my lectures, but about other people's.
00:28:35.303 --> 00:28:37.372
You know,
00:28:37.372 --> 00:28:38.239
While i was listening to the lecture,
00:28:38.239 --> 00:28:39.140
I could just about
00:28:39.140 --> 00:28:40.175
Hold on to this, but as soon as i left the room,
00:28:40.175 --> 00:28:41.709
My mind flicked back into default mode.
00:28:41.709 --> 00:28:43.711
And i'm aware that's how it is.
00:28:43.711 --> 00:28:45.814
But i also know that eventually the proof of the pudding is
00:28:45.814 --> 00:28:49.684
When people come
00:28:49.684 --> 00:28:51.619
And reread the scriptures to see if these things be so,
00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:55.123
So many things in the bible come up and say, well,
00:28:55.123 --> 00:28:58.593
Of course, what?
00:28:58.593 --> 00:28:59.794
What have you been trying to tell you?
00:28:59.794 --> 00:29:01.262
Like the psalms and the prophets and so on.
00:29:01.262 --> 00:29:03.765
But it's that thing that we have assumed
00:29:03.765 --> 00:29:05.834
That there's a bigger change between old testament,
00:29:05.834 --> 00:29:08.203
Which is about very much this world, new stuff,
00:29:08.203 --> 00:29:11.072
And the new testament
00:29:11.072 --> 00:29:12.307
And people have assumed that that that's
00:29:12.307 --> 00:29:14.108
About going to heaven, isn't it?
00:29:14.108 --> 00:29:16.077
So the end of philippians three, our citizenship is in heaven.
00:29:16.077 --> 00:29:19.514
People say, well, that's where we'll be going one day.
00:29:19.514 --> 00:29:22.116
That's not how the language of citizenship works.
00:29:22.116 --> 00:29:25.253
In philippi, a lot of people were roman citizens,
00:29:25.253 --> 00:29:28.323
And this was not so that they could retire
00:29:28.323 --> 00:29:30.558
And go back to rome one day.
00:29:30.558 --> 00:29:31.726
That was the last thing rome wanted.
00:29:31.726 --> 00:29:33.094
It was already overcrowded, etc.
00:29:33.094 --> 00:29:35.263
It was so that they could be agents of roman civilization.
00:29:35.263 --> 00:29:38.566
It was in greece where they were to be citizens of heaven.
00:29:38.566 --> 00:29:42.003
Here on earth
00:29:42.003 --> 00:29:43.137
Means we have to be agents of heaven,
00:29:43.137 --> 00:29:44.839
Civilization here and now.
00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:46.507
And when it says,
00:29:46.507 --> 00:29:47.876
And from heaven we await the lord, the savior,
00:29:47.876 --> 00:29:50.511
The messiah, who will come and change
00:29:50.511 --> 00:29:52.313
Our lowly bodies to be like his glorious body.
00:29:52.313 --> 00:29:54.182
It isn't that he will come back and snatch us away.
00:29:54.182 --> 00:29:57.619
He will come back and complete the work of
00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:00.455
Instantiating the kingdom on earth as in heaven.
00:30:00.455 --> 00:30:03.625
Will you just think of the words of jesus
00:30:03.625 --> 00:30:05.994
Like thy kingdom come, thy will be done on.
00:30:06.895 --> 00:30:09.731
Earth as in heaven. yeah.
00:30:09.731 --> 00:30:11.499
And the kingdom of god is at hand.
00:30:11.499 --> 00:30:13.434
What? where did it go?
00:30:13.434 --> 00:30:15.436
Yeah. it's within. where did it go?
00:30:15.436 --> 00:30:17.272
He left. absolutely, absolutely.
00:30:17.272 --> 00:30:19.507
The kingdom of god is still here.
00:30:19.507 --> 00:30:20.942
That we're supposed to be. yeah. yep, yep.
00:30:20.942 --> 00:30:23.578
This is i mean, the disciples questions
00:30:23.578 --> 00:30:25.780
To jesus in acts chapter one.
00:30:25.780 --> 00:30:27.382
Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to israel?
00:30:27.382 --> 00:30:29.884
And your dispensation is friends
00:30:29.884 --> 00:30:30.885
And your dispensation is friends
00:30:30.885 --> 00:30:31.819
Would say that jesus answer was no,
00:30:31.819 --> 00:30:34.055
But you've got something to do in the meantime.
00:30:34.055 --> 00:30:36.157
And the answer is emphatically yes, but it's not happening
00:30:36.157 --> 00:30:40.161
The way you thought it was, exactly as in the parables.
00:30:40.161 --> 00:30:43.264
Let me tell you about the kingdom of god.
00:30:43.264 --> 00:30:44.899
So went out to sow seed or whatever it was.
00:30:44.899 --> 00:30:47.468
In other words, it is here,
00:30:47.468 --> 00:30:48.870
But it's working in a way that you hadn't expected.
00:30:48.870 --> 00:30:51.606
And so jesus says,
00:30:51.606 --> 00:30:52.874
It's not up to you to know times or seasons.
00:30:53.775 --> 00:30:56.044
God's got that one covered. thank you very much.
00:30:56.044 --> 00:30:58.313
But you're going to receive power and be my witnesses.
00:30:58.313 --> 00:31:00.748
Well, being witnesses to the king of israel,
00:31:00.748 --> 00:31:03.117
Who is also the king of the world,
00:31:03.117 --> 00:31:05.320
This is what the kingdom of god happening in the present
00:31:05.320 --> 00:31:08.389
Looks like. and it's messy.
00:31:08.389 --> 00:31:10.558
They get it wrong.
00:31:10.558 --> 00:31:11.559
People get hurt and killed.
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:13.394
But exactly as jesus said they would.
00:31:13.394 --> 00:31:16.364
This is how the kingdom of god comes.
00:31:16.364 --> 00:31:19.634
You've written that to equate the kingdom
00:31:20.468 --> 00:31:23.905
And the church
00:31:23.905 --> 00:31:25.540
Is at best putting the cart before the horse, okay?
00:31:25.540 --> 00:31:29.777
And is incorrect.
00:31:29.777 --> 00:31:31.779
If jesus wasn't talking about starting the church,
00:31:31.779 --> 00:31:35.850
What was he talking about?
00:31:35.850 --> 00:31:37.518
He wasn't exactly talking about starting the church.
00:31:37.518 --> 00:31:40.254
He was sort of doing it,
00:31:40.254 --> 00:31:42.123
When he called 12 disciples.
00:31:42.724 --> 00:31:45.326
Anyone in the first century seeing this prophetic movement,
00:31:45.326 --> 00:31:48.863
Talking about the kingdom of god,
00:31:48.863 --> 00:31:50.031
And then the leader
00:31:50.031 --> 00:31:51.899
Choosing 12 people, they know precisely what's going on.
00:31:51.899 --> 00:31:54.602
This is about the restoration or renewal of israel.
00:31:54.602 --> 00:31:57.071
Of course it is that it can only mean that.
00:31:57.071 --> 00:32:00.174
But this is a way of saying, actually, the church began
00:32:00.174 --> 00:32:02.944
When god called abraham in genesis 12 and said, in
00:32:02.944 --> 00:32:06.347
You and in your seed, all the families of the earth,
00:32:06.347 --> 00:32:08.416
All the families of the earth.
00:32:08.416 --> 00:32:09.584
In other words,
00:32:09.584 --> 00:32:10.218
The purpose of israel
00:32:10.218 --> 00:32:11.285
Always was to be the blessing for the nations.
00:32:11.285 --> 00:32:14.689
That didn't happen. didn't happen
00:32:14.689 --> 00:32:17.091
Because abraham and his family were also in adam.
00:32:17.091 --> 00:32:20.828
That's the irony
00:32:20.828 --> 00:32:22.530
And the tragedy of so much of the old testament.
00:32:22.530 --> 00:32:24.932
The people who are bearing the promise
00:32:24.932 --> 00:32:26.734
Are also the carriers of the problem.
00:32:26.734 --> 00:32:29.137
And therefore jesus
00:32:29.604 --> 00:32:31.739
Launching of the kingdom of god
00:32:31.739 --> 00:32:33.374
And choosing these 12 is a way of saying,
00:32:33.374 --> 00:32:36.044
This is god getting the project back on track.
00:32:36.044 --> 00:32:39.247
And of course, it's ambiguous because before jesus death,
00:32:39.247 --> 00:32:41.916
They don't know. they don't understand.
00:32:41.916 --> 00:32:43.651
They still they're still thinking
00:32:43.651 --> 00:32:45.653
That we're going to get to jerusalem,
00:32:45.653 --> 00:32:47.021
And then suddenly it'll be time
00:32:47.021 --> 00:32:48.122
To whip out the swords and do the business,
00:32:48.122 --> 00:32:50.224
And god will help us kill all these stupid romans.
00:32:50.224 --> 00:32:54.062
You know, peter is waving his sword about in the garden, and,
00:32:54.062 --> 00:32:57.532
And who knows what was in judas mind.
00:32:57.532 --> 00:32:59.534
But jesus all along knows that the real enemy
00:32:59.534 --> 00:33:02.703
Should be defeated is not rome,
00:33:02.703 --> 00:33:04.572
But the accuser, the satan, and whatever you like to say.
00:33:04.572 --> 00:33:07.442
So the sense of the messianic battle
00:33:07.442 --> 00:33:10.978
Being transferred from being
00:33:10.978 --> 00:33:12.947
Just killing a few roman soldiers to actually
00:33:12.947 --> 00:33:16.217
Defeating the power of chaos, the power of darkness,
00:33:16.217 --> 00:33:20.721
And the way that that happens through the cross.
00:33:20.721 --> 00:33:24.225
This is this is huge.
00:33:24.725 --> 00:33:26.761
And most theories of atonement still don't quite get it.
00:33:26.761 --> 00:33:31.933
The dark
00:33:31.933 --> 00:33:33.167
Powers, the forces of chaos keep the world in their grip.
00:33:33.167 --> 00:33:36.637
Because humans worship idols,
00:33:36.637 --> 00:33:39.774
They worship the dark powers, and so they sin so.
00:33:39.774 --> 00:33:43.811
And sin is what keeps the powers in business.
00:33:43.811 --> 00:33:47.381
So in order to defeat the powers,
00:33:47.381 --> 00:33:49.684
Sin has to be dealt with.
00:33:49.684 --> 00:33:51.686
So jesus takes the weight of sin on himself on the cross,
00:33:51.686 --> 00:33:55.723
Dying in the place of sinners
00:33:55.723 --> 00:33:57.525
In order to defeat the power of darkness.
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:00.828
In other words, we have said,
00:34:00.828 --> 00:34:02.563
Jesus died for my sins so that i can go to heaven.
00:34:02.563 --> 00:34:05.733
The new testament says, jesus died for your sins,
00:34:05.733 --> 00:34:08.136
So that the powers of darkness and chaos can be overthrown
00:34:08.136 --> 00:34:11.205
And god's kingdom can come on.
00:34:11.205 --> 00:34:12.740
Earth is in heaven, and the sign of that
00:34:12.740 --> 00:34:15.610
Is that three days later he is raised from the dead,
00:34:15.610 --> 00:34:18.546
Which is the launch of the new creation
00:34:18.546 --> 00:34:22.383
In the person and body of jesus.
00:34:22.383 --> 00:34:25.253
How has the phrase
00:34:25.253 --> 00:34:27.155
The coming of the son of man b been misinterpreted?
00:34:27.155 --> 00:34:31.325
Oh, it's been misinterpreted precisely in terms of the return
00:34:31.325 --> 00:34:35.163
Of jesus. now, don't get me wrong,
00:34:35.163 --> 00:34:38.099
The new testament is full of promises of jesus return.
00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:40.868
I've already cited acts
00:34:40.868 --> 00:34:42.036
One or philippians three, many others,
00:34:42.036 --> 00:34:44.205
And the end of revelation coming soon.
00:34:44.205 --> 00:34:46.073
Surely i am coming soon.
00:34:46.073 --> 00:34:47.542
Amen.
00:34:47.542 --> 00:34:48.609
Come, lord jesus, that is the ultimate hope. but,
00:34:48.609 --> 00:34:52.613
This is not about the coming of the son of man.
00:34:53.614 --> 00:34:56.817
And when you take a truth
00:34:56.817 --> 00:34:59.086
And put the truth into the wrong text,
00:34:59.086 --> 00:35:01.689
You distort that text
00:35:01.689 --> 00:35:03.090
And you miss what that text was trying to tell you.
00:35:03.090 --> 00:35:06.494
Are you suggesting people have misinterpreted
00:35:06.494 --> 00:35:09.263
Scripture on occasion?
00:35:09.263 --> 00:35:10.998
You seem to be indicating that.
00:35:10.998 --> 00:35:12.600
I'm suggesting that we probably all do it more than we realize.
00:35:12.600 --> 00:35:15.603
I mean, my life and my life has been one long attempt
00:35:15.603 --> 00:35:19.807
To to get out of the misinterpretations
00:35:19.807 --> 00:35:22.410
That i began with
00:35:22.410 --> 00:35:23.644
And try to replace them with better interpretations of that.
00:35:23.644 --> 00:35:26.814
So what is left of the story?
00:35:26.814 --> 00:35:31.185
Okay, we've been talking about this unfolding story.
00:35:31.185 --> 00:35:33.654
So this story, what is left of the story moving forward,
00:35:33.654 --> 00:35:38.426
What do you believe remains unfulfilled?
00:35:38.426 --> 00:35:42.663
And what do you believe about the future
00:35:42.663 --> 00:35:46.167
Of god and his people in tales?
00:35:46.167 --> 00:35:49.270
Okay, i had to speak in a church in new york last week
00:35:49.270 --> 00:35:51.939
On signs of the future and how we can bring
00:35:51.939 --> 00:35:55.142
Those signs into the present,
00:35:55.142 --> 00:35:56.277
And i went to revelation 21 and i said, look at this.
00:35:56.277 --> 00:35:58.713
Look at this picture here.
00:35:58.713 --> 00:35:59.981
The dwelling of god is with humans.
00:36:00.715 --> 00:36:02.283
He will dwell with them.
00:36:02.283 --> 00:36:03.117
They will be his people,
00:36:03.117 --> 00:36:04.252
And god himself will be with them
00:36:04.252 --> 00:36:05.620
And will wipe away every tear from every eye.
00:36:05.620 --> 00:36:08.256
And death shall be no more, neither pain nor crying
00:36:08.256 --> 00:36:11.158
Any more.
00:36:11.158 --> 00:36:11.993
For the former things will be passed
00:36:11.993 --> 00:36:12.960
Away, and i will say, we're not there yet,
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:16.731
But the church ministry is in the present
00:36:16.731 --> 00:36:19.800
Time, among other things, a ministry of consolation,
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.170
Bringing that consoling time forward into the present.
00:36:23.170 --> 00:36:27.341
Death is still happening.
00:36:27.341 --> 00:36:29.076
People still need consoling.
00:36:29.076 --> 00:36:30.678
There will be a time when death will be abolished,
00:36:30.678 --> 00:36:34.181
When there will be no mourning or crying or pain anymore.
00:36:34.181 --> 00:36:37.051
That has not happened yet
00:36:37.051 --> 00:36:38.552
And we are waiting for it to happen,
00:36:38.552 --> 00:36:39.987
Which is exactly cognate with first corinthians 15.
00:36:39.987 --> 00:36:42.690
He must reign till he's
00:36:42.690 --> 00:36:43.724
Put all his enemies under his feet,
00:36:43.724 --> 00:36:45.326
And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
00:36:45.326 --> 00:36:47.595
So that then all the things in the present
00:36:47.595 --> 00:36:50.965
Which which bring about death, sin, and death,
00:36:50.965 --> 00:36:54.435
They are to be abolished.
00:36:54.435 --> 00:36:56.003
That has not happened yet.
00:36:56.003 --> 00:36:58.072
We are supposed to be the people in whom that process,
00:36:58.072 --> 00:37:02.610
That work,
00:37:02.610 --> 00:37:03.878
Is already starting to happen by the power of the holy spirit.
00:37:03.878 --> 00:37:06.747
But we know in ourselves that that hasn't happened yet.
00:37:06.747 --> 00:37:09.617
And unless the lord returns first, we will die. so
00:37:09.617 --> 00:37:13.621
Paul, at the end of first corinthians 15 says,
00:37:13.621 --> 00:37:16.057
And we shall not all die.
00:37:16.057 --> 00:37:17.224
We will be changed in a moment.
00:37:17.224 --> 00:37:18.893
In the twinkling of an eye the trumpet will sound, of
00:37:18.893 --> 00:37:21.062
The dead will be raised, and we will be changed.
00:37:21.062 --> 00:37:22.930
In other words, this present body which is heading for death
00:37:22.930 --> 00:37:27.702
Is going to be transformed to be like jesus body.
00:37:27.702 --> 00:37:30.471
In other words, jesus body having come out of the tomb
00:37:30.471 --> 00:37:33.541
Will never die again.
00:37:33.541 --> 00:37:34.642
Death has no more dominion over him.
00:37:34.642 --> 00:37:36.210
So that hasn't happened yet.
00:37:36.210 --> 00:37:38.612
But the promise keeps coming back
00:37:38.612 --> 00:37:42.149
From the future into the present with signs of hope.
00:37:42.149 --> 00:37:45.419
Just does that make sense? it does.
00:37:45.419 --> 00:37:46.921
And it's a lot better
00:37:46.921 --> 00:37:48.422
Than getting a branding iron with six, six, six
00:37:48.422 --> 00:37:51.559
And burning it into my forehead.
00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:53.194
Yeah, that's not something i've ever been keen on.
00:37:53.194 --> 00:37:55.029
Yeah, never.
00:37:55.029 --> 00:37:56.063
Okay, we want to talk to you about
00:37:56.063 --> 00:37:59.967
What could be
00:38:00.334 --> 00:38:01.569
Considered at least a legacy piece of who and what you are
00:38:01.569 --> 00:38:04.839
With your online courses and these types of things.
00:38:04.839 --> 00:38:09.143
We're very interested in that. what?
00:38:09.143 --> 00:38:10.945
Give me the kind of the spiel right out of the gate
00:38:10.945 --> 00:38:13.981
So that we can understand that, there's a lot of people
00:38:13.981 --> 00:38:18.252
That want to know more about your,
00:38:18.252 --> 00:38:21.355
Let's say, teaching side of what you do. yes.
00:38:22.289 --> 00:38:25.092
I mean, i've been a teacher one way or another
00:38:25.092 --> 00:38:27.962
All my working life.
00:38:27.962 --> 00:38:29.663
But about 10 or 15 years ago, my colleague david seymour
00:38:29.663 --> 00:38:33.601
Approached me and said, look, you're doing too much traveling.
00:38:33.601 --> 00:38:35.870
I was then in my mid 60s, and i needed to slow down a bit.
00:38:35.870 --> 00:38:39.907
And so david suggested that instead of me
00:38:39.907 --> 00:38:42.343
Always hopping on planes
00:38:42.343 --> 00:38:43.544
And going around and doing stuff,
00:38:43.544 --> 00:38:44.845
We should bring a camera into my office
00:38:44.845 --> 00:38:47.181
And that i would talk to the camera,
00:38:47.181 --> 00:38:48.816
And then he and his colleagues would edit it,
00:38:48.816 --> 00:38:51.252
And so that would save me traveling.
00:38:51.252 --> 00:38:53.087
Well, i am still traveling here.
00:38:53.087 --> 00:38:55.156
I have been
00:38:55.156 --> 00:38:55.589
Here you are,
00:38:55.589 --> 00:38:56.791
But not nearly as much as i was doing and might have done.
00:38:56.791 --> 00:38:57.992
But not nearly as much as i was doing and might have done.
00:38:57.992 --> 00:38:59.560
And so it's
00:38:59.560 --> 00:39:00.294
Been really fun, actually,
00:39:00.294 --> 00:39:01.295
Because we break these courses down into,
00:39:01.295 --> 00:39:04.031
Segments, usually between 15 and 20 minutes each.
00:39:04.031 --> 00:39:05.332
Segments, usually between 15 and 20 minutes each.
00:39:05.332 --> 00:39:06.434
So they're not full length lectures
00:39:06.434 --> 00:39:08.536
And full hour length lectures.
00:39:08.536 --> 00:39:10.771
But then the courses, comprise a lot of them are exegetical.
00:39:10.771 --> 00:39:15.576
That is to say,
00:39:15.576 --> 00:39:16.610
We've got courses on each of the four gospels.
00:39:16.610 --> 00:39:18.746
I remember just 3 or 4 years ago doing matthew,
00:39:18.746 --> 00:39:21.615
And that was the most extraordinarily exciting thing
00:39:21.615 --> 00:39:24.518
To spend a few days just talking through matthew in
00:39:24.518 --> 00:39:27.588
15 minute segments and watching it all come together.
00:39:27.588 --> 00:39:31.058
And then,
00:39:31.358 --> 00:39:32.560
Particularly i did one some while ago on romans,
00:39:32.560 --> 00:39:35.596
Which was a massive thing, of course, but more recently,
00:39:35.596 --> 00:39:38.766
On the basis of some lectures which i did here in texas,
00:39:38.766 --> 00:39:42.236
There's a course called into the heart of romans.
00:39:42.236 --> 00:39:45.706
Got it.
00:39:45.706 --> 00:39:46.807
And there's actually a book which goes with that,
00:39:46.807 --> 00:39:48.843
Which is simply on romans eight, one of the greatest chapters
00:39:48.843 --> 00:39:52.346
Ever written by anyone about anything.
00:39:52.346 --> 00:39:54.915
And so we go into great detail on that.
00:39:54.915 --> 00:39:56.884
So being able to do simultaneously
00:39:56.884 --> 00:39:59.887
What you might call survey courses, you know, 15
00:39:59.887 --> 00:40:02.923
Or 20 short lectures covering the whole of luke's gospel, say,
00:40:02.923 --> 00:40:07.261
Or being able to do something
00:40:07.261 --> 00:40:09.196
Where you go verse by verse, millimeter by millimeter,
00:40:09.196 --> 00:40:12.199
Through a passage like romans eight.
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:13.434
This has been great fun.
00:40:13.434 --> 00:40:14.702
We've also done various topical things where we take particular
00:40:14.702 --> 00:40:18.506
Biblical topics and themes and explore them one by one.
00:40:18.506 --> 00:40:22.443
And, it's been great fun.
00:40:22.443 --> 00:40:25.312
It's hard work when it's going on, but but i'm enjoying it.
00:40:25.312 --> 00:40:28.382
It feels like you could go millimeter by millimeter
00:40:28.382 --> 00:40:32.486
Pretty much through the whole new testament and beyond,
00:40:32.486 --> 00:40:34.955
Could you not?
00:40:34.955 --> 00:40:35.689
Well,
00:40:35.689 --> 00:40:36.790
I mean, i have translated the whole new testament,
00:40:36.790 --> 00:40:38.292
As you know, and the it's now published
00:40:38.292 --> 00:40:40.227
As the new testament for everyone.
00:40:40.227 --> 00:40:42.229
So, yeah,
00:40:42.229 --> 00:40:43.631
There is no
00:40:43.631 --> 00:40:44.532
Verse in the new testament that i haven't
00:40:44.532 --> 00:40:46.233
Puzzled over, looked up
00:40:46.233 --> 00:40:47.701
Words, checked it out, wondered how to put this into english.
00:40:47.701 --> 00:40:51.505
But, obviously i have
00:40:52.006 --> 00:40:53.641
Specialized, particularly in jesus and paul.
00:40:53.641 --> 00:40:57.044
In other words, what really was going on
00:40:57.044 --> 00:40:59.947
With jesus launching
00:40:59.947 --> 00:41:01.382
Of the kingdom of god on earth is in heaven.
00:41:01.382 --> 00:41:03.384
And what really was going on when paul was zooming around
00:41:03.384 --> 00:41:06.320
And writing letters and all this stuff.
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.522
And, well, there's just nobody i would rather study under than
00:41:08.522 --> 00:41:11.559
Than. you.
00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:14.962
Hello, i'm tom, right.
00:41:14.962 --> 00:41:16.764
I want to introduce you to admirato
00:41:16.764 --> 00:41:18.933
Which is the home of nt wright online.
00:41:18.933 --> 00:41:22.102
For the last decade, we've been doing our best
00:41:22.102 --> 00:41:24.505
To help students discover
00:41:24.505 --> 00:41:26.006
What can happen when you start to engage the world of theology.
00:41:26.006 --> 00:41:30.010
But we need your help to further this ongoing mission
00:41:30.010 --> 00:41:33.647
By supporting the teaching ministry of admirato
00:41:33.647 --> 00:41:36.483
And nt wright online.
00:41:36.483 --> 00:41:38.519
So please will you join us in partnership as we continue
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:42.256
To equip christians eager to study the bible together
00:41:42.256 --> 00:41:45.993
In order to be better equipped to serve god in his world?
00:41:45.993 --> 00:41:49.830
Visit admirato.org and thank you
00:41:49.830 --> 00:41:53.167
For considering this opportunity to help us further our work.
00:41:53.167 --> 00:41:57.471
So the last time we saw you was there in oxford.
00:41:58.439 --> 00:42:01.308
And john's and.
00:42:01.308 --> 00:42:02.476
Just beautiful and and i just i'm so excited
00:42:02.476 --> 00:42:05.212
Just beautiful and and i just i'm so excited
00:42:05.212 --> 00:42:06.180
For the tbn audience to get in on nt wright.
00:42:06.180 --> 00:42:09.683
Because it it just he he has a way of changing
00:42:09.683 --> 00:42:12.820
Because it it just he he has a way of changing
00:42:12.820 --> 00:42:14.755
The perspective of almost everything that we've thought
00:42:14.755 --> 00:42:17.791
And believe.
00:42:17.791 --> 00:42:19.126
And it's so beautiful to me.
00:42:19.126 --> 00:42:21.161
I didn't start out with the intention of doing that.
00:42:21.161 --> 00:42:23.497
Wow. i'm really dived into the new testament.
00:42:23.497 --> 00:42:25.866
I was trained as an ancient historian before i did theology,
00:42:25.866 --> 00:42:28.969
And i dived into the new testament thinking
00:42:28.969 --> 00:42:31.038
What was actually happening at the time.
00:42:31.038 --> 00:42:33.140
And again and again i found answers
00:42:33.140 --> 00:42:35.042
Which weren't what my church was telling me.
00:42:35.042 --> 00:42:37.011
So it's been a bit cautious because not
00:42:37.011 --> 00:42:38.779
Everyone likes it when you tell them things
00:42:38.779 --> 00:42:40.414
That they weren't expecting to hear, but i found it.
00:42:40.414 --> 00:42:43.117
Life giving. wow. absolutely.
00:42:43.117 --> 00:42:45.819
Romans is a course that our audience
00:42:45.819 --> 00:42:49.523
Can get more information about.
00:42:49.523 --> 00:42:51.025
Even right now, there's information on the screen
00:42:51.025 --> 00:42:53.861
In regard to that, but tease them a touch.
00:42:53.861 --> 00:42:57.031
And i would argue, i would argue that
00:42:57.031 --> 00:43:00.200
Romans 828
00:43:00.501 --> 00:43:03.570
Would would have to be through 3435.
00:43:03.570 --> 00:43:06.807
It goes on and on there, would have to be
00:43:04.638 --> 00:43:10.778
One of the most important scripture.
00:43:10.778 --> 00:43:13.681
Our, our friend,
00:43:13.681 --> 00:43:15.516
That is, fellow texan max lucado.
00:43:16.250 --> 00:43:19.653
He's written a number of books.
00:43:19.653 --> 00:43:22.022
He calls,
00:43:22.022 --> 00:43:23.924
John 316, the hope diamond of the bible.
00:43:23.924 --> 00:43:26.760
But romans 828 is a key scripture.
00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:31.699
It meant something very much and a troubling time
00:43:31.699 --> 00:43:35.069
In my own personal life.
00:43:35.069 --> 00:43:36.470
Give me give me your intro
00:43:36.470 --> 00:43:39.907
Kind of overview of romans 828.
00:43:39.907 --> 00:43:42.943
You know, all things work together
00:43:42.943 --> 00:43:44.178
For good for those who love god.
00:43:44.178 --> 00:43:45.646
But actually it's not, as paul says,
00:43:45.646 --> 00:43:47.881
God is the subject of the verb.
00:43:47.881 --> 00:43:49.550
God works all things and it's not for those who love god.
00:43:49.550 --> 00:43:55.122
It's with those who love god.
00:43:55.122 --> 00:43:57.591
Because the previous verses are about what happens
00:43:57.591 --> 00:44:00.394
When the groaning of all creation finds its echo
00:44:00.394 --> 00:44:04.765
In the groaning of the church, which is in prayer.
00:44:04.765 --> 00:44:05.833
In the groaning of the church, which is in prayer.
00:44:05.833 --> 00:44:07.868
And then, astonishingly, the spirit is groaning within
00:44:07.868 --> 00:44:11.905
Us. and god the father, who is described as the heart
00:44:11.905 --> 00:44:15.008
Searcher, is listening and knows the mind of the spirit.
00:44:15.008 --> 00:44:18.045
And this minister, this prayerful lament.
00:44:18.045 --> 00:44:20.748
Ministry of the church is at the heart of romans eight.
00:44:20.748 --> 00:44:24.284
If you look at commentaries, people
00:44:24.284 --> 00:44:25.786
Tend to bracket off verses 26 and 27 and say, well,
00:44:25.786 --> 00:44:28.856
This is just a little section on prayer.
00:44:28.856 --> 00:44:31.258
Paul doesn't write with little sections on this,
00:44:31.258 --> 00:44:33.627
And that is organically part of it.
00:44:33.627 --> 00:44:35.529
So we're talking about the groaning
00:44:35.529 --> 00:44:37.664
Of all creation, waiting for god's
00:44:37.664 --> 00:44:39.266
New world to be born
00:44:39.266 --> 00:44:40.567
And how that
00:44:40.567 --> 00:44:41.668
The church is supposed, in the power of the spirit,
00:44:41.668 --> 00:44:44.138
To be at the heart of that, groaning with that.
00:44:44.138 --> 00:44:46.173
And then that's paul sums up that as that's what it means
00:44:46.173 --> 00:44:50.577
To love god, to be in tune with the spirit in the father,
00:44:50.577 --> 00:44:54.748
Shaping us according to the pattern of christ.
00:44:54.748 --> 00:44:57.017
So then he says, we know that god works
00:44:57.017 --> 00:45:00.554
With those who love him for good.
00:45:00.554 --> 00:45:03.957
In other words, god is at work through that process
00:45:03.957 --> 00:45:07.895
Of lamenting and intercession for the larger good,
00:45:07.895 --> 00:45:12.266
And from there it leads
00:45:12.266 --> 00:45:13.534
Into a significantly different reading of verses
00:45:13.534 --> 00:45:16.570
29 and 30 as well.
00:45:16.570 --> 00:45:18.605
I mean, it's such an extraordinary explosive passage.
00:45:18.605 --> 00:45:21.742
One of the things is really helped me with that.
00:45:21.742 --> 00:45:24.144
Quite a lot of what paul does, not least in romans
00:45:24.144 --> 00:45:27.481
Eight, is rooted in the book that i call isaiah,
00:45:27.481 --> 00:45:29.983
That you would probably call isaiah.
00:45:29.983 --> 00:45:31.785
And, and, the when he says at the climax,
00:45:31.785 --> 00:45:36.390
Those he justified them, he also glorified.
00:45:36.390 --> 00:45:39.059
We have fitted that
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:40.260
Into a 16th century framework about how you get to heaven.
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:43.363
But actually, paul is
00:45:43.363 --> 00:45:44.932
Deliberately echoing a passage from the end of isaiah 45,
00:45:44.932 --> 00:45:48.669
Which uses the same greek words, and it's about god's purpose
00:45:48.669 --> 00:45:53.073
Through his people for the world,
00:45:53.073 --> 00:45:56.143
Not simply for his people to escape the world.
00:45:56.143 --> 00:45:59.246
And that,
00:45:59.246 --> 00:46:00.347
As you will see, plays into all sorts of other issues.
00:46:00.347 --> 00:46:02.683
I found myself again just sitting here
00:46:02.683 --> 00:46:05.886
Soaking in what we're really doing where
00:46:05.886 --> 00:46:10.257
We're we're unpacking some things
00:46:10.257 --> 00:46:15.162
That i believe
00:46:15.495 --> 00:46:18.932
This information that we've been discussing
00:46:18.932 --> 00:46:22.769
Is critical for us to know, so that we can
00:46:23.637 --> 00:46:26.540
All kind of read the bible and let it speak to us directly.
00:46:26.540 --> 00:46:32.613
I've got kind of one final question.
00:46:32.613 --> 00:46:35.616
It's a three parter, kind of like matthew 24.
00:46:35.616 --> 00:46:38.852
Okay.
00:46:39.086 --> 00:46:40.020
It's a complex three part final question.
00:46:40.020 --> 00:46:43.891
That's good, isn't it?
00:46:44.358 --> 00:46:45.158
As good. all right.
00:46:45.158 --> 00:46:47.761
What's the purpose of salvation?
00:46:47.761 --> 00:46:50.931
Okay.
00:46:50.931 --> 00:46:52.332
Is it about going to heaven?
00:46:52.332 --> 00:46:54.201
You know,
00:46:54.201 --> 00:46:55.369
How are we to partake in helping bring about god's promise?
00:46:55.369 --> 00:46:59.239
New heavens and earth.
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:00.974
See you. that's similar.
00:47:00.974 --> 00:47:03.243
How has the rapture mentality
00:47:03.243 --> 00:47:06.980
Affected the impact of the modern church?
00:47:07.814 --> 00:47:12.219
At least here in america? wow.
00:47:12.819 --> 00:47:15.989
That's a that's a good final one, salvation
00:47:15.989 --> 00:47:19.493
Should be easy because the word salvation means rescue.
00:47:19.493 --> 00:47:22.529
Beautiful.
00:47:22.529 --> 00:47:23.563
What are we supposed to be rescued from death?
00:47:23.563 --> 00:47:26.099
How do you get rescued from death?
00:47:26.833 --> 00:47:28.902
Resurrection?
00:47:28.902 --> 00:47:30.804
Your soul going to heaven is not being saved from death.
00:47:30.804 --> 00:47:34.641
That if you believe in souls going to heaven,
00:47:34.641 --> 00:47:37.044
That is simply the definition of death.
00:47:37.044 --> 00:47:39.146
That's not rescue from death.
00:47:39.146 --> 00:47:41.048
So resurrection, but the context of resurrection
00:47:41.048 --> 00:47:44.418
Is new, new creation, the new heavens and otherwise.
00:47:44.418 --> 00:47:47.454
Where are you going to be as a resurrected body?
00:47:47.454 --> 00:47:49.456
The answer is in god's new creation,
00:47:49.456 --> 00:47:51.325
God's new heavens, a new earth.
00:47:51.325 --> 00:47:53.126
Okay, so the second part was.
00:47:53.126 --> 00:47:56.096
How are we to partake in helping
00:47:56.096 --> 00:48:00.000
Bring about god's promised new heavens and new earth?
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:03.070
Right?
00:48:03.070 --> 00:48:04.104
There's all sorts of things one could say.
00:48:04.104 --> 00:48:05.739
The mission of the church is precisely to be people
00:48:05.739 --> 00:48:08.976
Through whom signs of the ultimate new creation
00:48:08.976 --> 00:48:13.080
Can happen in the present.
00:48:13.080 --> 00:48:15.782
Working with
00:48:16.116 --> 00:48:17.284
And for the poor education, medicine.
00:48:17.284 --> 00:48:20.454
The church has always done this from the very beginning.
00:48:20.454 --> 00:48:23.023
The these are marks and the church is still doing those.
00:48:23.023 --> 00:48:26.560
And it's the messianic agenda of psalm 72
00:48:26.560 --> 00:48:30.397
Of when the messiah comes.
00:48:30.397 --> 00:48:32.366
The reason
00:48:32.366 --> 00:48:33.300
All nations will call him blessed is he
00:48:33.300 --> 00:48:35.002
Who looks after the widow and the orphan and the stranger,
00:48:35.002 --> 00:48:37.504
And those who have no one
00:48:37.504 --> 00:48:38.705
To help them, and the poor and the disadvantaged and so on.
00:48:38.705 --> 00:48:41.375
When the church is doing
00:48:41.375 --> 00:48:42.776
That stuff, these are signs of god's future.
00:48:42.776 --> 00:48:45.846
When either the church or the state
00:48:45.846 --> 00:48:48.515
Are refusing to do those things, these are signs of death.
00:48:48.515 --> 00:48:51.918
And that final.
00:48:52.285 --> 00:48:53.720
Yeah.
00:48:53.720 --> 00:48:54.654
Thought of the three part question. yeah.
00:48:54.654 --> 00:48:56.623
How has the rapture
00:48:56.623 --> 00:48:58.125
Mentality affected the impact of the modern church?
00:48:58.125 --> 00:49:01.995
The rapture mentality has gone with a whole narrative
00:49:01.995 --> 00:49:05.599
Which is superimposed onto the bible,
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:08.335
Which is not the story that the bible is telling
00:49:08.335 --> 00:49:10.937
And which has thrown,
00:49:10.937 --> 00:49:13.140
Political aspirations
00:49:13.640 --> 00:49:15.475
And, and priorities into chaos and confusion
00:49:15.475 --> 00:49:19.513
Compared with what we ought to be doing,
00:49:19.513 --> 00:49:21.381
Which is seeking god's justice and peace in the whole world
00:49:21.381 --> 00:49:24.851
For the whole world, by whatever means.
00:49:24.851 --> 00:49:27.854
And also
00:49:27.854 --> 00:49:30.023
The the overconcentration on the middle east,
00:49:30.023 --> 00:49:33.493
Which has been pretty
00:49:33.493 --> 00:49:34.795
Devastating, the way that that has worked out
00:49:34.795 --> 00:49:36.863
In american politics.
00:49:36.863 --> 00:49:38.098
I don't think anyone else in the world
00:49:38.098 --> 00:49:40.200
Thinks, like many americans do, about the middle east.
00:49:40.200 --> 00:49:43.837
We know it's a mess.
00:49:43.837 --> 00:49:44.905
We know it's very difficult and painful, etc.
00:49:44.905 --> 00:49:47.274
We grieve over this, we grieve over that.
00:49:47.274 --> 00:49:49.576
But we don't have the armageddon narrative.
00:49:49.576 --> 00:49:51.912
We don't have the rapture narrative going on.
00:49:51.912 --> 00:49:55.282
And so it's very difficult
00:49:55.282 --> 00:49:56.416
For people in the rest of the world
00:49:56.416 --> 00:49:57.584
To understand where americans are coming from.
00:49:57.584 --> 00:50:00.353
And that's not surprising, because the narrative that
00:50:00.353 --> 00:50:03.957
So many americans have got in their heads
00:50:03.957 --> 00:50:05.625
From the great planet earth or wherever is simply not
00:50:05.625 --> 00:50:09.696
In the bible.
00:50:09.696 --> 00:50:10.997
It's in a late modern imagination
00:50:10.997 --> 00:50:15.102
Coupled with a lot of misused biblical texts.
00:50:15.102 --> 00:50:19.406
Do i make myself clear? yes, sir.
00:50:19.406 --> 00:50:22.676
It's if
00:50:22.909 --> 00:50:25.245
I was wearing pearls, i'd be clutching them.
00:50:25.245 --> 00:50:28.315
So that's a good line.
00:50:28.315 --> 00:50:30.250
I remember them.
00:50:30.250 --> 00:50:31.685
You know. my sweet dad.
00:50:31.685 --> 00:50:32.853
Oh, hey.
00:50:32.853 --> 00:50:33.987
Who died ten years ago now?
00:50:33.987 --> 00:50:36.723
Came out of the church of god.
00:50:36.723 --> 00:50:38.425
And then the assemblies of god.
00:50:38.425 --> 00:50:39.993
And i just remember him preaching,
00:50:39.993 --> 00:50:42.095
And i so wish he could sit here to
00:50:42.095 --> 00:50:45.365
Because he was always
00:50:45.365 --> 00:50:48.435
He always knew that jesus was coming back
00:50:48.435 --> 00:50:50.971
And jesus was returning, but he was like, everyone's so,
00:50:50.971 --> 00:50:54.841
So taken by this escapism, this game
00:50:54.841 --> 00:50:58.345
That jesus has to come back and rescue us yet again.
00:50:58.345 --> 00:51:01.581
Again. yeah, yeah, yeah. interesting.
00:51:01.581 --> 00:51:03.517
Good for him.
00:51:03.517 --> 00:51:04.384
And and he would say, you know, i'm
00:51:04.384 --> 00:51:05.852
Just kind of caught up in the old nasty now
00:51:05.852 --> 00:51:07.921
And now of jesus coming back for a glorious church.
00:51:07.921 --> 00:51:11.958
Yeah. yeah.
00:51:11.958 --> 00:51:12.859
Well well, you know, and, and i think
00:51:12.859 --> 00:51:16.062
To, to be sitting here today, it just kind of full circle.
00:51:16.062 --> 00:51:20.300
Beautiful. bless you.
00:51:20.300 --> 00:51:21.268
It's beautiful. thank you.
00:51:21.268 --> 00:51:22.769
Pray for our audience.
00:51:22.769 --> 00:51:24.771
Some of them are wondering about
00:51:24.771 --> 00:51:31.011
Old traditions of man.
00:51:31.478 --> 00:51:33.446
Sure.
00:51:33.446 --> 00:51:34.247
There's a lot of thoughts coming.
00:51:34.247 --> 00:51:36.783
I got tapped on the shoulder the other day, and,
00:51:36.783 --> 00:51:40.353
And a sweet little tbn viewer
00:51:40.353 --> 00:51:43.490
Walked up to me and and said, you know, i've been watching
00:51:43.490 --> 00:51:47.494
Some of the interviews that you've been doing about,
00:51:47.494 --> 00:51:50.397
You know, a, a, a,
00:51:50.397 --> 00:51:52.499
You know, get a load of this, a new narrative on the in times.
00:51:52.499 --> 00:51:56.102
Well, it's, it's, it's really not new.
00:51:56.102 --> 00:51:57.971
It's the tradition.
00:51:57.971 --> 00:51:59.773
And and she said, you know what i hope you're right.
00:51:59.773 --> 00:52:04.678
Yeah. you know and i said, well i do too.
00:52:04.678 --> 00:52:06.613
So pray, pray for our audience.
00:52:06.613 --> 00:52:09.349
If you would just kind of seal this time.
00:52:09.349 --> 00:52:12.686
Brother nt, that'd be amazing. thank you.
00:52:12.686 --> 00:52:14.454
Sir, i just on that saying, i hope you're right.
00:52:14.454 --> 00:52:17.624
More than once my wife has said to me
00:52:17.624 --> 00:52:19.359
After i've done a lecture, she says,
00:52:19.359 --> 00:52:21.361
I hope what you're saying was right
00:52:21.361 --> 00:52:22.662
Because it sounded quite convincing.
00:52:22.662 --> 00:52:25.265
Sweet marriage.
00:52:25.632 --> 00:52:28.168
I love it.
00:52:28.168 --> 00:52:28.902
Anyway. that's great.
00:52:28.902 --> 00:52:30.470
Thank you, father, for this time.
00:52:30.470 --> 00:52:31.838
And thank you for the extraordinary,
00:52:31.838 --> 00:52:33.807
Audience that tbn has out there and further for their devotion,
00:52:33.807 --> 00:52:37.644
For their love of you, for their love of scripture.
00:52:37.644 --> 00:52:40.146
Thank you for the work of your holy spirit in them.
00:52:40.146 --> 00:52:42.949
And, gracious lord, you know we are all muddled.
00:52:42.949 --> 00:52:44.884
We all make mistakes. we all get things wrong.
00:52:44.884 --> 00:52:47.654
And one day we will look back and realize
00:52:47.654 --> 00:52:50.724
How it misinterpreted this and that and the other.
00:52:50.724 --> 00:52:53.260
And we're all somewhere on that journey.
00:52:53.260 --> 00:52:55.095
And so it's not about
00:52:55.095 --> 00:52:56.930
Some people being totally right and others being totally wrong.
00:52:56.930 --> 00:53:00.133
So we pray for all of us for humility and wisdom,
00:53:00.133 --> 00:53:04.137
Humility and wisdom.
00:53:04.137 --> 00:53:05.772
And i pray for that audience that they will have
00:53:05.772 --> 00:53:08.942
A sense of excitement at fresh vistas of scripture
00:53:08.942 --> 00:53:13.146
And fresh glimpses of jesus himself.
00:53:13.146 --> 00:53:16.916
As as inaugurating the kingdom,
00:53:17.550 --> 00:53:20.153
As dying for our sins has risen, as ascended, as returning.
00:53:20.153 --> 00:53:24.057
But getting the story so that we are
00:53:24.057 --> 00:53:26.092
In the right place, doing the right things
00:53:26.092 --> 00:53:27.827
In the middle of it.
00:53:27.827 --> 00:53:28.795
The gracious lord use this time.
00:53:28.795 --> 00:53:30.363
I pray, to bless your people, to bless your world,
00:53:30.363 --> 00:53:34.301
And we thank you for your presence with us
00:53:34.301 --> 00:53:36.536
And your love surrounding us.
00:53:36.536 --> 00:53:37.737
In jesus name, amen.
00:53:37.737 --> 00:53:39.906
Thy kingdom come, thy will be.
00:53:39.906 --> 00:53:41.875
Done on earth as in. earth as it is in. heaven.
00:53:41.875 --> 00:53:44.311
We love you.
00:53:44.311 --> 00:53:45.745
Bishop, pastor, teacher in nt wright.
00:53:45.745 --> 00:53:48.181
Thank you for being with us. thank you very much.
00:53:48.181 --> 00:53:50.450
It█s been fun.
00:53:50.450 --> 00:53:50.450

N.T. Wright: Future Glory, Present Hope | Praise

July 15, 2025 | S25 E715 | 55:32

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