Jeff Clark joins Allen Jackson to discuss current events.
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Allen Jackson NOW | Allen Jackson: Fraud Scope | Allen Jackson Now | May 6, 2026
- Good evening and welcome to nashville.
- 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:19.640
- I'm alan jackson.
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- The stock market is doing well and the job market
- 00:00:21.109 --> 00:00:24.011
- Remains strong.
- 00:00:24.011 --> 00:00:25.379
- But there's a less well known economic indicator
- 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:27.682
- That has economists very concerned.
- 00:00:27.682 --> 00:00:30.218
- The total u.s.
- 00:00:30.218 --> 00:00:31.152
- National debt is now significantly larger
- 00:00:31.152 --> 00:00:33.888
- Than our gdp, the gross domestic product.
- 00:00:33.888 --> 00:00:37.158
- It's like having an income of $85,000
- 00:00:37.158 --> 00:00:39.727
- A year and holding debts that far exceed that.
- 00:00:39.727 --> 00:00:43.297
- That could work for a few years, but not forever.
- 00:00:43.297 --> 00:00:46.434
- There's a big
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- Contributor to the debt,
- 00:00:47.034 --> 00:00:48.202
- Which is only recently getting noticed.
- 00:00:48.202 --> 00:00:51.038
- It's the fraud.
- 00:00:51.038 --> 00:00:52.373
- Or in plainer english, it's called stealing.
- 00:00:52.373 --> 00:00:55.710
- Every day, as much as $1.4 billion of government
- 00:00:55.710 --> 00:00:59.447
- Money is stolen.
- 00:00:59.447 --> 00:01:01.516
- That's the money we pay with our taxes.
- 00:01:01.516 --> 00:01:03.651
- It's a big part of the reason
- 00:01:03.651 --> 00:01:04.819
- Why the total federal debt is approaching $40 trillion.
- 00:01:04.819 --> 00:01:08.656
- And while officials often blame gangs, organized
- 00:01:08.656 --> 00:01:11.259
- Crime, immigrants and ordinary americans,
- 00:01:11.259 --> 00:01:14.095
- Much of that stealing is from inside the government.
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- For example, the park service employee who gave guided tours
- 00:01:16.764 --> 00:01:20.368
- And was caught on camera stealing $1,200.
- 00:01:20.368 --> 00:01:24.172
- Well, when authorities look deeper at her history,
- 00:01:24.172 --> 00:01:26.240
- They found that she'd been doing that for years
- 00:01:26.240 --> 00:01:28.509
- And that she had stolen $250,000.
- 00:01:28.509 --> 00:01:31.812
- That's a quarter of $1 million
- 00:01:31.812 --> 00:01:33.247
- That went into her own bank account.
- 00:01:33.247 --> 00:01:35.283
- The stealing is rampant.
- 00:01:35.283 --> 00:01:36.517
- The losses are staggering, and the fraud
- 00:01:36.517 --> 00:01:38.786
- Has become an acceptable norm by too many people.
- 00:01:38.786 --> 00:01:42.456
- Government employees are the people
- 00:01:42.456 --> 00:01:44.358
- We trust with our money.
- 00:01:44.358 --> 00:01:46.227
- But they also have inside access that the federal, state
- 00:01:46.227 --> 00:01:49.163
- And local level.
- 00:01:49.163 --> 00:01:50.198
- And for many, it's just far too easy to steal.
- 00:01:50.198 --> 00:01:53.301
- Well, we're living at a time
- 00:01:53.901 --> 00:01:55.102
- When observable truth is often denied in the public square.
- 00:01:55.102 --> 00:01:58.906
- It's like the sun is coming up in the east,
- 00:01:58.906 --> 00:02:00.908
- And there's some talking head
- 00:02:00.908 --> 00:02:02.176
- With lots of letters at the end of their name going.
- 00:02:02.176 --> 00:02:04.378
- Well, actually, it comes up in the south.
- 00:02:04.378 --> 00:02:06.581
- It's disorienting.
- 00:02:06.581 --> 00:02:08.349
- Well, i'm grateful for the steps
- 00:02:08.349 --> 00:02:09.684
- That are taken by our current administration
- 00:02:09.684 --> 00:02:11.419
- To cut waste and fraud, to expose the looting of america.
- 00:02:11.419 --> 00:02:15.590
- As i've said, it's stealing.
- 00:02:15.590 --> 00:02:17.992
- But when i think about the people
- 00:02:17.992 --> 00:02:19.293
- That have been elected to office, there's
- 00:02:19.293 --> 00:02:21.462
- A group of public servants that i despise
- 00:02:21.462 --> 00:02:24.332
- And despise is the kindest word i have.
- 00:02:24.332 --> 00:02:26.434
- And it's not about their political party.
- 00:02:26.434 --> 00:02:28.636
- It doesn't matter to me whether they're republican or democrat.
- 00:02:28.636 --> 00:02:31.706
- These elected officials were given the authority
- 00:02:31.706 --> 00:02:33.708
- To serve the people by the people.
- 00:02:33.708 --> 00:02:35.977
- It's a sacred trust.
- 00:02:35.977 --> 00:02:37.979
- Yet these elected officials
- 00:02:37.979 --> 00:02:39.213
- Use their office primarily for personal gain.
- 00:02:39.213 --> 00:02:42.316
- If they use their elected
- 00:02:42.316 --> 00:02:43.484
- Position to accumulate resources for personal gain,
- 00:02:43.484 --> 00:02:46.887
- I don't have any respect for that.
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- The way i understand public service
- 00:02:48.889 --> 00:02:50.591
- Is that we go to washington or wherever we're elected
- 00:02:50.591 --> 00:02:52.827
- To serve, to represent our constituents,
- 00:02:52.827 --> 00:02:55.229
- To bring a better outcome to whomever
- 00:02:55.229 --> 00:02:56.931
- It is we're representing.
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- You know,
- 00:02:58.966 --> 00:03:00.101
- I suppose the old fashioned term for that was statesman,
- 00:03:00.101 --> 00:03:02.837
- The expectation that the elected official will go with
- 00:03:02.837 --> 00:03:05.840
- The good of their constituents
- 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:07.141
- As the primary factor for their decision making.
- 00:03:07.141 --> 00:03:10.511
- Well, far too many elected officials have had their snouts
- 00:03:10.511 --> 00:03:13.214
- In the trough,
- 00:03:13.214 --> 00:03:14.482
- Gaining wealth on the back of hard working, taxpaying people.
- 00:03:14.482 --> 00:03:18.586
- If, for instance, we have a member of congress
- 00:03:18.586 --> 00:03:20.354
- Whose net worth increase is $30 million per year.
- 00:03:20.354 --> 00:03:23.991
- That should not be all right with us,
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- Especially if their state
- 00:03:25.893 --> 00:03:27.061
- Is at the center of multiple high profile cases of fraud.
- 00:03:27.061 --> 00:03:30.865
- Well, i'm referring to representative
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- Ilhan omar of minnesota,
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- Who, by the way, now says she's not a millionaire.
- 00:03:33.934 --> 00:03:36.737
- She blamed her accountant for making the accounting error.
- 00:03:36.737 --> 00:03:40.107
- A newly revised disclosure shows she and her husband went
- 00:03:40.107 --> 00:03:42.877
- From $30 million in holdings to less than $100,000.
- 00:03:42.877 --> 00:03:47.415
- That's not an accounting error.
- 00:03:48.049 --> 00:03:49.350
- That's deceptive accounting.
- 00:03:49.350 --> 00:03:51.585
- We have
- 00:03:51.819 --> 00:03:53.020
- Found out there was brazen fraud taking place in minnesota.
- 00:03:53.020 --> 00:03:56.023
- Even money that was meant to feed
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- Hungry kids and children with autism in minnesota.
- 00:03:57.325 --> 00:04:00.528
- Hundreds of millions of dollars allegedly stolen.
- 00:04:00.528 --> 00:04:03.831
- Well, how about the medicaid dollars?
- 00:04:03.831 --> 00:04:05.466
- The trump administration has suggested that the broader
- 00:04:05.466 --> 00:04:08.336
- Suspected exposure in minnesota could reach into the billions.
- 00:04:08.336 --> 00:04:11.839
- I would expect the governors and the mayors of the state,
- 00:04:12.973 --> 00:04:15.209
- Where billions of dollars
- 00:04:15.209 --> 00:04:16.344
- Are being stolen from taxpayers, to be outraged at that.
- 00:04:16.344 --> 00:04:20.414
- But that's not the response we've seen.
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- We should no longer tolerate government
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- Excess abuse or sloppiness.
- 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:28.522
- I don't want to hear any more of the words.
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- I want to see measurable outcomes.
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- I'll tell you what i'm really watching for.
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- It's a biblical word.
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- It's repentance.
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- You see, if there's no repentance,
- 00:04:37.765 --> 00:04:39.100
- There's no real change.
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- Repentance carries with it two meanings.
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- It's a change of mind.
- 00:04:42.970 --> 00:04:44.572
- Which means i've been thinking about this the wrong way.
- 00:04:44.572 --> 00:04:47.274
- And it's a change of behavior, which means
- 00:04:47.274 --> 00:04:49.210
- I've been acting the wrong way.
- 00:04:49.210 --> 00:04:51.312
- So what i hear from elected officials, real repentance,
- 00:04:51.312 --> 00:04:54.315
- When i hear them say,
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- I brought about this wrong and i have behaved wrong,
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- Then i'll trust them to oversee what's next without repentance.
- 00:04:59.153 --> 00:05:02.890
- They're simply stalling.
- 00:05:02.890 --> 00:05:04.458
- They're trying to run out the clock
- 00:05:04.458 --> 00:05:05.760
- Until they can be in power again.
- 00:05:05.760 --> 00:05:08.095
- If politicians who lacked integrity wasn't bad enough,
- 00:05:08.095 --> 00:05:11.031
- How about the legacy media members
- 00:05:11.031 --> 00:05:12.933
- Who don't say a thing about the corruption,
- 00:05:12.933 --> 00:05:14.635
- The fraud, the stealing that's taking place?
- 00:05:14.635 --> 00:05:17.171
- What would it take for somebody like the atlantic,
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- The washington post, or the new york times to say
- 00:05:19.340 --> 00:05:22.443
- That this is a problem, to say that the billions of dollars
- 00:05:22.443 --> 00:05:25.513
- Being fraudulently taken from the american people is bad.
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- We as the church can't sit quiet in this season.
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- We have an assignment
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- To stand for the truth, the search for it,
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- Because the solution to society's ills.
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- It is a political. it's spiritual.
- 00:05:37.691 --> 00:05:40.194
- We must have a faith that is living and vital,
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- A faith that requires
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- Situational awareness of the world we're living in.
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- We've got to tell the truth in terms of today.
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- We must determine to be champions of the truth.
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- Well, the federal deficit approaching $40 trillion.
- 00:05:53.340 --> 00:05:55.910
- Alarms are sounding and economic circles.
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- The stealing is close to $1 trillion a year.
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- And growing.
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- In a moment, we'll be joined by jeff clark.
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- He's the vice president of litigation
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- At the oversight project.
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- I'll be right back.
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- I'll be right back.
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- The federal debt is so large
- 00:06:20.099 --> 00:06:22.101
- That it's hard to fathom what $39 trillion represents.
- 00:06:22.101 --> 00:06:25.371
- But consider this
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- It was 1982 when the federal debt
- 00:06:26.806 --> 00:06:28.842
- First passed the $1 trillion mark,
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- Which means that between 1982 and 2026,
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- We've taken on $38 trillion more.
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- We pay more in interest on the debt
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- Than we do for our defense budget.
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- It's one thing to get spending under control,
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- But it's quite another to get stopped.
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- The stealing in washington, d.c., the oversight project
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- Targets corruption, stealing and fraud within the government.
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- And we're joined now by their vice
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- President of litigation, jeff clark.
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- Welcome to our program, sir.
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- It's good to be here.
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- Pastor allen, thank you.
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- The headlines have been focused on california and minneapolis,
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- But very little has been said, at least publicly,
- 00:07:06.980 --> 00:07:09.449
- About the stealing from within the government.
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- Maybe we start by you telling us what you know about how vast
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- That fraud inside government is.
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- It is vast.
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- And, you know,
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- I wish i could tell you the details of cases that were
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- Referred by omb to the justice department
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- Or to inspector general about, that.
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- If you're not aware, i left, omb about two months ago,
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- So i was serving in the in the white house
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- And was privy to a lot of these reports and interface,
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- Frequently with, dodge when that was really in its
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- Heyday for the first six months or so of the trump
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- Administration in 2025.
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- And the other thing, probably a lot of your viewers
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- May not understand about omb.
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- They just think it's about, the budget is that the,
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- The council on inspectors general
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- Actually has a reporting relationship into omb.
- 00:08:04.771 --> 00:08:08.041
- So omb, gets to work with, and in many ways
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- Direct
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- The activities of the inspectors general, which are tasked
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- With, pastor allen rooting out waste, fraud and abuse.
- 00:08:16.215 --> 00:08:20.620
- So, you know, there was a major initiative.
- 00:08:20.620 --> 00:08:23.323
- Let me let me take them off. right.
- 00:08:23.323 --> 00:08:24.724
- So we had doj's looking at waste, fraud and abuse.
- 00:08:24.724 --> 00:08:28.461
- And then,
- 00:08:28.761 --> 00:08:30.096
- Working with us, we had our own independent efforts to do that.
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- We had the inspectors general looking at that.
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- Now, a new division at
- 00:08:37.403 --> 00:08:39.806
- Doj has been created to combat fraud.
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- And in trump 45, i spent more than two years at, at doj.
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- So it's it's interesting to, to, to observe the creation
- 00:08:48.147 --> 00:08:52.185
- Of a new litigating division that doesn't happen every day.
- 00:08:52.185 --> 00:08:54.687
- The last time it happened was the first time i was at doj.
- 00:08:54.687 --> 00:08:58.324
- There was a new litigating division,
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- Created the national security division after nine over 11.
- 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:04.197
- And then the last thing to note is that, obviously,
- 00:09:04.197 --> 00:09:06.466
- The president gave vice president vance
- 00:09:06.466 --> 00:09:08.701
- A special tasking to look at waste, fraud and abuse.
- 00:09:08.701 --> 00:09:12.739
- So, you know, we have a lot of,
- 00:09:12.739 --> 00:09:15.908
- More eyes on this problem than we had before.
- 00:09:15.908 --> 00:09:18.945
- And we also have, you know, great independent journalists,
- 00:09:18.945 --> 00:09:22.515
- You know, like nick shurley who ferret out things
- 00:09:22.515 --> 00:09:25.451
- Like the quality hearing center in minnesota.
- 00:09:25.451 --> 00:09:28.921
- So it's a it's an exciting time.
- 00:09:28.921 --> 00:09:31.024
- And, you know, it's just it's so sad to see
- 00:09:31.024 --> 00:09:34.093
- How much the federal taxpayer gets ripped off by
- 00:09:34.093 --> 00:09:37.430
- Unscrupulous individuals.
- 00:09:37.430 --> 00:09:39.065
- You know, there are endless examples.
- 00:09:39.899 --> 00:09:42.035
- The one that i mentioned in the open
- 00:09:42.035 --> 00:09:43.569
- Described a national park employee who over the years
- 00:09:43.569 --> 00:09:46.205
- Stole $250,000 from people who were paying to go on tours.
- 00:09:46.205 --> 00:09:50.743
- They caught her on videotape.
- 00:09:50.743 --> 00:09:52.945
- How are most of these federal workers caught?
- 00:09:52.945 --> 00:09:54.914
- And what percentage of prosecuted?
- 00:09:54.914 --> 00:09:58.418
- Not as much as you might think.
- 00:09:58.418 --> 00:10:00.053
- And, you know,
- 00:10:00.053 --> 00:10:01.220
- There's a referral process there to doj for that doj then
- 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:04.624
- To to exercise its prosecutorial discretion on that.
- 00:10:04.624 --> 00:10:09.629
- You're reminded me mentioning, the national park service that,
- 00:10:09.629 --> 00:10:14.434
- You know, this is not a new phenomenon either.
- 00:10:14.434 --> 00:10:16.869
- So if i go back to my service in the bush 43 administration,
- 00:10:16.869 --> 00:10:20.907
- When i was at the environment division,
- 00:10:20.907 --> 00:10:22.442
- There was a famous case that involved,
- 00:10:22.442 --> 00:10:25.011
- Something where, you know, there wasn't someone directly
- 00:10:25.011 --> 00:10:27.613
- Lining their pockets, but it was someone doing,
- 00:10:27.613 --> 00:10:30.650
- Something that was incredibly harmful to the national economy.
- 00:10:30.650 --> 00:10:33.553
- Namely, they were planting links hairs.
- 00:10:33.553 --> 00:10:37.824
- So that the endangered species act would get triggered
- 00:10:37.824 --> 00:10:40.827
- As to particular regions. right.
- 00:10:40.827 --> 00:10:42.395
- And the the upshot of that, alan, is that,
- 00:10:42.395 --> 00:10:46.966
- You know, the the incredibly onerous regulatory
- 00:10:46.966 --> 00:10:50.203
- Regime of the endangered species act would kick in.
- 00:10:50.203 --> 00:10:53.406
- This can block, you know, the ability to to,
- 00:10:53.406 --> 00:10:56.843
- Develop things
- 00:10:57.176 --> 00:10:58.377
- On your land, block the ability to get for federal permits
- 00:10:58.377 --> 00:11:01.147
- So that you can make changes to your lands,
- 00:11:01.147 --> 00:11:03.049
- Like, build a new road or put up a building.
- 00:11:03.049 --> 00:11:06.319
- And so, you know,
- 00:11:06.319 --> 00:11:07.520
- This caused a lot more damage than than $250,000, right?
- 00:11:07.520 --> 00:11:11.524
- So that the amount of,
- 00:11:11.524 --> 00:11:14.727
- Fraud in terms of dollars, whether you consider it
- 00:11:14.727 --> 00:11:17.396
- In terms of its impacts, like this example
- 00:11:17.396 --> 00:11:19.499
- I just gave about the the links, the canadian links, or,
- 00:11:19.499 --> 00:11:23.770
- You know, it's it is something where somebody,
- 00:11:23.770 --> 00:11:26.005
- You know, dipping their hand into the tail
- 00:11:26.005 --> 00:11:28.474
- Or redirecting money to themselves
- 00:11:28.474 --> 00:11:30.376
- That they're not entitled to get, is just, you know, vast.
- 00:11:30.376 --> 00:11:34.213
- And, you know, i can also say that when i was in trump,
- 00:11:34.213 --> 00:11:37.383
- 45, in the civil, the running, the civil division,
- 00:11:37.383 --> 00:11:40.953
- You know, the false claim,
- 00:11:41.521 --> 00:11:42.688
- All false claims act cases run through the civil division.
- 00:11:42.688 --> 00:11:46.859
- And if private people file
- 00:11:46.859 --> 00:11:49.162
- Those cases, the civil division gets to decide
- 00:11:49.162 --> 00:11:51.631
- Whether to let them keep going forward or not.
- 00:11:51.631 --> 00:11:54.267
- And, you know, i saw a lot of health care abuse,
- 00:11:54.267 --> 00:11:57.637
- Going back then.
- 00:11:58.037 --> 00:11:59.372
- And, you know, we we did our best even in trump 45
- 00:11:59.372 --> 00:12:03.242
- To try to throw the book at that.
- 00:12:03.242 --> 00:12:05.478
- That kind of conduct.
- 00:12:05.478 --> 00:12:08.247
- You know, until president trump launched the doj's committee
- 00:12:08.247 --> 00:12:10.917
- And then later appointed j.d.
- 00:12:10.917 --> 00:12:12.051
- Vance to oversee the investigations of fraud.
- 00:12:12.051 --> 00:12:15.121
- It's just all too easy to steal.
- 00:12:15.121 --> 00:12:16.522
- And i get caught.
- 00:12:16.522 --> 00:12:17.857
- Vance says that they're going after the thieves.
- 00:12:17.857 --> 00:12:20.426
- Full steam ahead. listen to his comments.
- 00:12:20.426 --> 00:12:23.362
- We've got 280 law enforcement officers
- 00:12:23.362 --> 00:12:25.531
- Working on this problem.
- 00:12:25.531 --> 00:12:26.766
- We really have the most accelerated, aggressive
- 00:12:26.766 --> 00:12:30.036
- Anti-fraud operation
- 00:12:30.036 --> 00:12:31.537
- That we've ever seen from the federal government.
- 00:12:31.537 --> 00:12:33.840
- And again, it's because the president,
- 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:35.308
- United states, empowered his team to go after this.
- 00:12:35.308 --> 00:12:38.277
- Will they be going after the
- 00:12:38.878 --> 00:12:39.946
- Inside government fraud as well as the outsiders?
- 00:12:39.946 --> 00:12:43.149
- I think so, and i think, that the inside fraud
- 00:12:44.116 --> 00:12:47.954
- Is especially disturbing, right, because people take
- 00:12:47.954 --> 00:12:51.357
- An oath of office when they join, even, you know,
- 00:12:51.357 --> 00:12:54.660
- People who are not at the tippy top of the executive branch.
- 00:12:54.660 --> 00:12:58.397
- And so, you know, it's a it's a breach of the public trust.
- 00:12:58.397 --> 00:13:02.201
- If you're talking about
- 00:13:02.201 --> 00:13:03.236
- A private individual who is, you know, skimming
- 00:13:03.236 --> 00:13:06.105
- Money out of, medicare, that's bad.
- 00:13:06.105 --> 00:13:08.207
- That's terrible.
- 00:13:08.207 --> 00:13:09.342
- But, you know, i, i consider it to be multiplied
- 00:13:09.342 --> 00:13:12.612
- When you're talking about public workers
- 00:13:12.612 --> 00:13:14.881
- Who are abusing the public trust of their office.
- 00:13:14.881 --> 00:13:17.884
- And, you know, that that's the kind of thing where
- 00:13:17.884 --> 00:13:20.720
- Especially if criminal cases are brought against them
- 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:23.322
- Becomes the basis for sentencing enhancements,
- 00:13:23.322 --> 00:13:26.192
- And it should work like that.
- 00:13:26.192 --> 00:13:28.527
- Well, jeff, we need to take a short break here.
- 00:13:28.527 --> 00:13:30.229
- We stand by for another segment.
- 00:13:30.229 --> 00:13:32.465
- I will.
- 00:13:32.698 --> 00:13:33.132
- Thank you.
- 00:13:33.132 --> 00:13:33.966
- And if you got your phone in your head,
- 00:13:33.966 --> 00:13:35.268
- You can try logging on to aj now.com.
- 00:13:35.268 --> 00:13:37.570
- Or you can send me an email.
- 00:13:37.570 --> 00:13:38.905
- You can see how easy it is in the animation.
- 00:13:38.905 --> 00:13:41.707
- I'll be right back.
- 00:13:41.707 --> 00:13:47.001
- I'll be right back.
- 00:13:47.001 --> 00:13:52.249
- We're back now with the vice president of the litigation
- 00:13:53.384 --> 00:13:55.886
- At the oversight project, jeff clark.
- 00:13:55.886 --> 00:13:59.023
- Do you have any sense of why it seems to have become so easy
- 00:13:59.023 --> 00:14:01.992
- For so many people to think it's okay
- 00:14:01.992 --> 00:14:03.727
- For people to steal from the government?
- 00:14:03.727 --> 00:14:05.496
- Are the penalties too small?
- 00:14:05.496 --> 00:14:06.931
- Too few and far between.
- 00:14:06.931 --> 00:14:08.399
- What is it?
- 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.601
- I think that, the the penalty regime is healthy.
- 00:14:10.601 --> 00:14:14.538
- Not that it couldn't be increased even more.
- 00:14:14.538 --> 00:14:17.975
- But i think the biggest problem
- 00:14:17.975 --> 00:14:19.476
- Is the fact that the government is just too darn big.
- 00:14:19.476 --> 00:14:23.080
- Alan, you know, the more fingers,
- 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:26.183
- The more pies it puts its fingers into
- 00:14:26.183 --> 00:14:28.352
- And the deeper it, it, smashes its fingers into those pies,
- 00:14:28.352 --> 00:14:33.023
- The more opportunities there are for fraud.
- 00:14:33.023 --> 00:14:35.693
- And, you know, you just you wind up in a spot where
- 00:14:35.693 --> 00:14:38.829
- There aren't enough people to be watching everybody
- 00:14:38.829 --> 00:14:42.366
- On a daily basis.
- 00:14:42.366 --> 00:14:43.534
- And, you know, the, the,
- 00:14:43.534 --> 00:14:46.103
- The moral standards of the country
- 00:14:46.103 --> 00:14:47.838
- Are such that a lot of people, if they're not being watched,
- 00:14:47.838 --> 00:14:50.774
- If there's not,
- 00:14:50.774 --> 00:14:51.976
- You know, a direct control, if there's not an automatic audit
- 00:14:51.976 --> 00:14:55.312
- That's going to, find them out and they know about that and,
- 00:14:55.312 --> 00:14:58.315
- You know, they're tempted to to get something for themselves
- 00:14:58.315 --> 00:15:01.552
- And you know, that that's bad enough.
- 00:15:01.552 --> 00:15:04.088
- But, you know, obviously, the industrial scale,
- 00:15:04.088 --> 00:15:07.458
- Things we're seeing in california
- 00:15:07.458 --> 00:15:09.126
- That have been exposed and in minnesota,
- 00:15:09.126 --> 00:15:10.961
- I mean,
- 00:15:10.961 --> 00:15:12.129
- Those are the things that really need to be prioritized.
- 00:15:12.129 --> 00:15:15.032
- And that's that's where this new division
- 00:15:15.032 --> 00:15:16.834
- And doj comes in, because they will look across the field
- 00:15:16.834 --> 00:15:20.704
- And they'll prioritize
- 00:15:20.704 --> 00:15:22.339
- Getting the biggest bang for the buck in terms of
- 00:15:22.339 --> 00:15:25.042
- Where they put their enforcement resources
- 00:15:25.042 --> 00:15:26.844
- So that they cut off as much fraud as possible.
- 00:15:26.844 --> 00:15:30.014
- When cases like the clearing center and the many fraudulent
- 00:15:31.148 --> 00:15:34.318
- Hospice centers in california become so public,
- 00:15:34.318 --> 00:15:37.121
- Does that drive more inside calls on theft
- 00:15:37.121 --> 00:15:39.289
- Going and going on in government,
- 00:15:39.289 --> 00:15:41.091
- Or calls to your organization to track them down?
- 00:15:41.091 --> 00:15:44.328
- Yes. so, you know,
- 00:15:44.762 --> 00:15:46.463
- We will, receive tips from whistleblowers and, and,
- 00:15:46.463 --> 00:15:50.534
- You know, they'll contact us.
- 00:15:51.168 --> 00:15:53.470
- They can also report things to the inspectors
- 00:15:53.470 --> 00:15:56.140
- General of the relevant
- 00:15:56.140 --> 00:15:58.175
- Departments, like the inspector general of hhs,
- 00:15:58.175 --> 00:16:01.045
- Based on on the example you just gave about california
- 00:16:01.045 --> 00:16:04.181
- Would be, a good place for for people to start.
- 00:16:04.181 --> 00:16:07.618
- But, you know, we if we're contacted
- 00:16:07.618 --> 00:16:09.620
- Where we'll be happy to
- 00:16:09.620 --> 00:16:11.221
- To talk to anyone who comes in through our website.
- 00:16:11.221 --> 00:16:14.725
- And, you know, try to, to,
- 00:16:14.725 --> 00:16:17.728
- Think about whether we might want to represent them
- 00:16:17.728 --> 00:16:20.798
- Or if, you know, our resources don't permit that.
- 00:16:20.798 --> 00:16:24.201
- You know where to send them so that,
- 00:16:24.201 --> 00:16:26.937
- Their tips are processed by the appropriate folks
- 00:16:26.937 --> 00:16:30.441
- As more cases of fraud are becoming public.
- 00:16:31.375 --> 00:16:34.645
- Do you expect that the fraud will slow down?
- 00:16:34.645 --> 00:16:36.980
- Or will people just get better at hiding it?
- 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.284
- Well, i think what i've observed over time
- 00:16:40.284 --> 00:16:43.687
- Is that if there's a particular area that is very profitable,
- 00:16:43.687 --> 00:16:47.791
- But then there's the enforcement initiative against it.
- 00:16:47.791 --> 00:16:50.761
- It's not like you can ever entirely root out
- 00:16:50.761 --> 00:16:53.363
- This problem, right? it's about our fallen human nature.
- 00:16:53.363 --> 00:16:56.333
- But then, you know, the criminal elements
- 00:16:56.333 --> 00:16:58.502
- Shift in to some new scam that they create.
- 00:16:58.502 --> 00:17:01.572
- I should mention something else,
- 00:17:01.572 --> 00:17:02.739
- Which maybe not a lot of people know.
- 00:17:02.739 --> 00:17:04.541
- But i did mention the false claims act.
- 00:17:04.541 --> 00:17:06.610
- So the false claims act and and the way it works goes back
- 00:17:06.610 --> 00:17:09.713
- All the way, you know, centuries to england,
- 00:17:09.713 --> 00:17:13.183
- To a latin term called qui tam.
- 00:17:13.183 --> 00:17:16.253
- And so if you're someone who is inside an organization,
- 00:17:16.253 --> 00:17:19.656
- Whether it's a government organization
- 00:17:19.656 --> 00:17:21.892
- Or a, a private organization,
- 00:17:21.892 --> 00:17:25.395
- Where the private organization has a contract
- 00:17:25.395 --> 00:17:28.198
- With the federal government, right?
- 00:17:28.198 --> 00:17:29.333
- It has to have some nexus to the federal government
- 00:17:29.333 --> 00:17:31.835
- Fisc being raided.
- 00:17:31.835 --> 00:17:33.337
- Then you can come forward.
- 00:17:33.337 --> 00:17:35.439
- You become what's called a relator.
- 00:17:35.439 --> 00:17:37.641
- And if the federal government recovers money
- 00:17:37.641 --> 00:17:41.345
- Or you fighting for them on their behalf, recovers money,
- 00:17:41.345 --> 00:17:44.047
- You get to keep a portion of that.
- 00:17:44.047 --> 00:17:45.983
- And the rest of it goes into the fisc.
- 00:17:45.983 --> 00:17:48.252
- So there's a system that was created long ago
- 00:17:48.252 --> 00:17:50.787
- By the, the english king that would allow,
- 00:17:50.787 --> 00:17:54.591
- You know, incentives to be created to sort of avoid,
- 00:17:54.591 --> 00:17:58.395
- You know, fraud, ripping off the government.
- 00:17:58.395 --> 00:18:00.664
- And, like,
- 00:18:00.664 --> 00:18:01.565
- If they needed to do that back at a time
- 00:18:01.565 --> 00:18:03.634
- When their governments were tiny.
- 00:18:03.634 --> 00:18:05.702
- Think how much, you know, more important that tool is now
- 00:18:05.702 --> 00:18:09.306
- When the federal government is just vast beyond measure.
- 00:18:09.306 --> 00:18:13.610
- Well, iowa's
- 00:18:13.944 --> 00:18:15.012
- Republican senator joni ernst, she put it this way.
- 00:18:15.012 --> 00:18:18.182
- Any bureaucrat busted for treating government
- 00:18:18.182 --> 00:18:20.184
- Benefits like a self-service buffet should be served
- 00:18:20.184 --> 00:18:23.187
- Their next tax payer funded meal behind bars.
- 00:18:23.187 --> 00:18:27.291
- You're the vice president of litigation.
- 00:18:27.291 --> 00:18:29.026
- She's on the right track.
- 00:18:29.026 --> 00:18:32.396
- And since you mentioned, you know her as, an iowa senator,
- 00:18:31.128 --> 00:18:36.300
- You know, one of the, the main proponents of the false
- 00:18:36.300 --> 00:18:39.303
- Claims act, being interpreted to, to weed out,
- 00:18:39.303 --> 00:18:43.307
- Waste, fraud and abuse, you know, to help relator's
- 00:18:43.307 --> 00:18:46.677
- Get what's,
- 00:18:46.677 --> 00:18:47.744
- They deserve in terms of, like, pointing that out,
- 00:18:47.744 --> 00:18:50.314
- Bringing it to the federal
- 00:18:50.314 --> 00:18:51.415
- Government's attention so that the recovery can happen
- 00:18:51.415 --> 00:18:54.418
- Is senator chuck grassley.
- 00:18:54.418 --> 00:18:55.819
- He's been on that, cause for for decades.
- 00:18:55.819 --> 00:18:59.723
- And, you know, he follows it very carefully.
- 00:18:59.723 --> 00:19:02.192
- So if there's any attempt to kind of make,
- 00:19:02.192 --> 00:19:05.195
- You know, some kind of, reduction
- 00:19:05.195 --> 00:19:07.798
- In scope of that statute, he, he shows up to oppose it
- 00:19:07.798 --> 00:19:11.768
- Because he thinks it's a vital tool.
- 00:19:11.768 --> 00:19:13.870
- And like i said, you know, it's it's a been a cause of his for
- 00:19:13.870 --> 00:19:17.708
- A very long time.
- 00:19:17.708 --> 00:19:19.376
- Well, jeff, thanks for your time today.
- 00:19:20.244 --> 00:19:21.912
- If someone listening knows of some egregious abuse
- 00:19:21.912 --> 00:19:24.548
- Or fraud, where would they go to report it?
- 00:19:24.548 --> 00:19:27.818
- Well, like i said, you know, you if you know that
- 00:19:27.818 --> 00:19:31.455
- What part of the government it hits, you can then google, or,
- 00:19:31.455 --> 00:19:36.159
- You know, use
- 00:19:36.159 --> 00:19:37.227
- Ai or whatever your search method is to look up,
- 00:19:37.227 --> 00:19:39.997
- The inspector general for that department, for that agency.
- 00:19:39.997 --> 00:19:43.333
- That's one thing you can do.
- 00:19:43.333 --> 00:19:44.901
- Or, you know, if, if,
- 00:19:44.901 --> 00:19:47.871
- You know, you you thought that, i might be able to be helpful.
- 00:19:47.871 --> 00:19:50.841
- And my colleagues,
- 00:19:50.841 --> 00:19:52.042
- We have a number of lawyers at the oversight project.
- 00:19:52.042 --> 00:19:55.178
- We could talk to you and, like i said, you know,
- 00:19:55.178 --> 00:19:58.548
- We might point you, in the right place to to the government if,
- 00:19:58.548 --> 00:20:02.619
- You can't quite figure that out.
- 00:20:03.253 --> 00:20:04.454
- And sometimes, again, given how vast the government is
- 00:20:04.454 --> 00:20:07.357
- And the structures are so complicated, you may be like,
- 00:20:07.357 --> 00:20:09.793
- I don't know what agency this is in,
- 00:20:09.793 --> 00:20:11.495
- But we could help you track that down. awesome.
- 00:20:11.495 --> 00:20:13.864
- What's your website's name?
- 00:20:13.864 --> 00:20:16.266
- It is.
- 00:20:16.466 --> 00:20:17.100
- It's your gov.org.
- 00:20:17.100 --> 00:20:19.469
- So just a word.
- 00:20:19.469 --> 00:20:20.270
- It's your, while you are gov.
- 00:20:20.270 --> 00:20:23.940
- Gov.org.
- 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.276
- And there are no spaces between the the words.
- 00:20:26.276 --> 00:20:29.413
- But we look forward to reporting on the progress
- 00:20:30.414 --> 00:20:32.683
- You make in the months ahead,
- 00:20:32.683 --> 00:20:33.850
- And hope you'll come back and tell us more when you can.
- 00:20:33.850 --> 00:20:36.853
- Thank you pastor.
- 00:20:36.853 --> 00:20:38.355
- We'll be back in just a moment.
- 00:20:38.355 --> 00:20:40.999
- Thank you for taking the time
- 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:42.668
- To send your emails, your questions and thoughts.
- 00:20:42.668 --> 00:20:45.137
- We always look forward to them.
- 00:20:45.137 --> 00:20:46.939
- Kimberly from texas road.
- 00:20:46.939 --> 00:20:48.908
- Why did the comedians and talk shows
- 00:20:48.908 --> 00:20:50.843
- Think they should talk about our president the way they do?
- 00:20:50.843 --> 00:20:53.879
- It's sad.
- 00:20:53.879 --> 00:20:55.848
- I agree it's sad sometimes.
- 00:20:55.848 --> 00:20:57.483
- It's infuriating.
- 00:20:57.483 --> 00:20:58.684
- It seems to me that comedians,
- 00:20:58.684 --> 00:21:01.087
- Even education, have become more propaganda centers
- 00:21:01.087 --> 00:21:04.490
- Where they attack worldviews that they don't agree with.
- 00:21:04.490 --> 00:21:07.059
- They don't have to use logic or common sense.
- 00:21:07.059 --> 00:21:09.328
- They're just filled with anger and bitterness.
- 00:21:09.328 --> 00:21:11.897
- It's easy to change the channel,
- 00:21:11.897 --> 00:21:13.132
- And if you do so, you can change your attitude.
- 00:21:13.132 --> 00:21:16.335
- Lee from georgia wrote
- 00:21:16.802 --> 00:21:18.738
- Parents are now being held liable for allowing access
- 00:21:18.738 --> 00:21:21.440
- To guns for their children when they go to school
- 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.542
- And murder classmates and others.
- 00:21:23.542 --> 00:21:25.845
- Shouldn't rogue prosecutors and judges be held liable
- 00:21:25.845 --> 00:21:28.781
- For releasing violent criminals back onto our streets?
- 00:21:28.781 --> 00:21:32.118
- Well, i'm not an attorney.
- 00:21:32.685 --> 00:21:33.619
- I don't know the ins and outs.
- 00:21:33.619 --> 00:21:35.121
- I am a citizen, and i know
- 00:21:35.121 --> 00:21:36.355
- That we elect our prosecutors and many of our judges.
- 00:21:36.355 --> 00:21:40.192
- I think if we'll pay more attention
- 00:21:40.192 --> 00:21:41.594
- At the ballot box and be more involved in the process.
- 00:21:41.594 --> 00:21:45.164
- This is an election year and election season for primaries.
- 00:21:45.164 --> 00:21:48.734
- I hope you're planning to participate.
- 00:21:48.734 --> 00:21:50.803
- If you're not participating,
- 00:21:50.803 --> 00:21:52.138
- You are forfeiting the rights of citizenship.
- 00:21:52.138 --> 00:21:56.108
- Finally, fred from katy, texas.
- 00:21:56.742 --> 00:21:59.412
- What happens to good people when they die?
- 00:21:59.412 --> 00:22:02.882
- Well, the question is not complete
- 00:22:03.649 --> 00:22:05.651
- Because good is not
- 00:22:05.651 --> 00:22:07.186
- The characteristic that determines our eternity.
- 00:22:07.186 --> 00:22:09.655
- It's our relationship to the person of jesus, of nazareth.
- 00:22:09.655 --> 00:22:13.259
- And so good alone is not sufficient.
- 00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:15.394
- I'm confident there will be good people in hell.
- 00:22:15.394 --> 00:22:17.496
- Kind people, generous people, polite people.
- 00:22:17.496 --> 00:22:20.533
- It's our relationship with jesus that determines our destiny.
- 00:22:20.533 --> 00:22:24.003
- It's why we want to share
- 00:22:24.003 --> 00:22:25.104
- The good news of what jesus has done in our lives.
- 00:22:25.104 --> 00:22:28.274
- It'll help out our friends and family members.
- 00:22:28.274 --> 00:22:31.510
- Thanks for the questions and for spending
- 00:22:31.510 --> 00:22:32.878
- A few minutes of your day with us.
- 00:22:32.878 --> 00:22:34.447
- God bless you and have a good evening.
- 00:22:34.447 --> 00:22:34.447
