Jeff Clark joins Allen Jackson to discuss current events.
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Allen Jackson NOW | Allen Jackson: Fraud Scope | Allen Jackson Now | May 22, 2026
- Well, good evening and welcome to nashville.
- 00:00:05.430 --> 00:00:07.466
- I'm alan jackson.
- 00:00:07.466 --> 00:00:08.900
- The stock market is doing well and the job market
- 00:00:08.900 --> 00:00:11.837
- Remains strong.
- 00:00:11.837 --> 00:00:13.205
- But there's a less well known economic indicator
- 00:00:13.205 --> 00:00:15.507
- That has economists very concerned.
- 00:00:15.507 --> 00:00:18.009
- The total u.s.
- 00:00:18.009 --> 00:00:18.910
- National debt is now significantly larger
- 00:00:18.910 --> 00:00:21.680
- Than our gdp.
- 00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:22.914
- The gross domestic product.
- 00:00:22.914 --> 00:00:24.983
- It's like having an income of $85,000
- 00:00:24.983 --> 00:00:27.552
- A year and holding debts that far exceed that.
- 00:00:27.552 --> 00:00:31.123
- That could work for a few years, but not forever.
- 00:00:31.123 --> 00:00:34.259
- There's a big
- 00:00:34.259 --> 00:00:34.860
- Contributor to the debt,
- 00:00:34.860 --> 00:00:36.027
- Which is only recently getting noticed.
- 00:00:36.027 --> 00:00:38.864
- It's the fraud.
- 00:00:38.864 --> 00:00:40.198
- Or in plainer english, it's called stealing.
- 00:00:40.198 --> 00:00:43.535
- Every day, as much as $1.4 billion of government
- 00:00:43.535 --> 00:00:47.272
- Money is stolen.
- 00:00:47.272 --> 00:00:49.341
- That's the money we pay with our taxes.
- 00:00:49.341 --> 00:00:51.476
- It's a big part of the reason
- 00:00:51.476 --> 00:00:52.611
- Why the total federal debt is approaching $40 trillion.
- 00:00:52.611 --> 00:00:56.481
- And while officials often blame gangs, organized
- 00:00:56.481 --> 00:00:59.084
- Crime, immigrants and ordinary americans,
- 00:00:59.084 --> 00:01:01.920
- Much of that stealing is from inside the government.
- 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:04.589
- For example, the park service employee who gave guided tours
- 00:01:04.589 --> 00:01:08.193
- And was caught on camera stealing $1,200.
- 00:01:08.193 --> 00:01:12.063
- When authorities look deeper at her history,
- 00:01:12.063 --> 00:01:14.065
- They found that she'd been doing that for years
- 00:01:14.065 --> 00:01:16.334
- And that she had stolen $250,000.
- 00:01:16.334 --> 00:01:19.638
- That's a quarter of $1 million
- 00:01:19.638 --> 00:01:21.072
- That went into her own bank account.
- 00:01:21.072 --> 00:01:23.108
- The stealing is rampant.
- 00:01:23.108 --> 00:01:24.342
- The losses are staggering, and the fraud
- 00:01:24.342 --> 00:01:26.611
- Has become an acceptable norm by too many people.
- 00:01:26.611 --> 00:01:30.282
- Government employees are the people
- 00:01:30.282 --> 00:01:32.150
- We trust with our money.
- 00:01:32.150 --> 00:01:34.052
- But they also have inside access that the federal, state
- 00:01:34.052 --> 00:01:36.988
- And local level.
- 00:01:36.988 --> 00:01:38.023
- And for many, it's just far too easy to steal.
- 00:01:38.023 --> 00:01:41.126
- Well, we're living at a time
- 00:01:41.726 --> 00:01:42.928
- When observable truth is often denied in the public square.
- 00:01:42.928 --> 00:01:46.731
- It's like the sun is coming up in the east,
- 00:01:46.731 --> 00:01:48.733
- And there's some talking head
- 00:01:48.733 --> 00:01:50.001
- With lots of letters at the end of their name going.
- 00:01:50.001 --> 00:01:52.204
- Well, actually, it comes up in the south.
- 00:01:52.204 --> 00:01:54.406
- It's disorienting.
- 00:01:54.406 --> 00:01:56.174
- Well, i'm grateful for the steps
- 00:01:56.174 --> 00:01:57.509
- That are taken by our current administration
- 00:01:57.509 --> 00:01:59.244
- To cut waste and fraud, to expose the looting of america.
- 00:01:59.244 --> 00:02:03.415
- As i've said, it's stealing.
- 00:02:03.415 --> 00:02:05.817
- But what i think about the people
- 00:02:05.817 --> 00:02:07.118
- That have been elected to office, there's
- 00:02:07.118 --> 00:02:09.287
- A group of public servants that i despise
- 00:02:09.287 --> 00:02:12.157
- And despise is the kindest word i have.
- 00:02:12.157 --> 00:02:14.259
- And it's not about their political party.
- 00:02:14.259 --> 00:02:16.461
- It doesn't matter to me whether they're republican or democrat.
- 00:02:16.461 --> 00:02:19.531
- These elected officials were given the authority
- 00:02:19.531 --> 00:02:21.566
- To serve the people by the people.
- 00:02:21.566 --> 00:02:23.802
- It's a sacred trust.
- 00:02:23.802 --> 00:02:25.804
- Yet these elected officials
- 00:02:25.804 --> 00:02:27.038
- Use their office primarily for personal gain.
- 00:02:27.038 --> 00:02:30.141
- If they use their elected
- 00:02:30.141 --> 00:02:31.309
- Position to accumulate resources for personal gain.
- 00:02:31.309 --> 00:02:34.713
- I don't have any respect for that.
- 00:02:34.713 --> 00:02:36.715
- The way i understand public service
- 00:02:36.715 --> 00:02:38.416
- Is that we go to washington or wherever we're elected
- 00:02:38.416 --> 00:02:40.652
- To serve, to represent our constituents,
- 00:02:40.652 --> 00:02:43.054
- To bring a better outcome to whomever
- 00:02:43.054 --> 00:02:44.756
- It is we're representing.
- 00:02:44.756 --> 00:02:46.791
- You know,
- 00:02:46.791 --> 00:02:47.926
- I suppose the old fashioned term for that was statesman,
- 00:02:47.926 --> 00:02:50.662
- The expectation that the elected official will go with
- 00:02:50.662 --> 00:02:53.665
- The good of their constituents
- 00:02:53.665 --> 00:02:54.966
- As the primary factor for their decision making.
- 00:02:54.966 --> 00:02:58.336
- Well, far too many elected officials have had their snouts
- 00:02:58.336 --> 00:03:01.039
- In the trough,
- 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:02.307
- Gaining wealth on the back of hard working, taxpaying people.
- 00:03:02.307 --> 00:03:06.411
- If, for instance, we have a member of congress
- 00:03:06.411 --> 00:03:08.179
- Whose net worth increase is $30 million per year.
- 00:03:08.179 --> 00:03:11.816
- That should not be all right with us,
- 00:03:11.816 --> 00:03:13.718
- Especially if their state
- 00:03:13.718 --> 00:03:14.886
- Is at the center of multiple high profile cases of fraud.
- 00:03:14.886 --> 00:03:18.690
- Well, i'm referring to representative
- 00:03:18.690 --> 00:03:19.958
- Ilhan omar of minnesota,
- 00:03:19.958 --> 00:03:21.760
- Who, by the way, now says she's not a millionaire.
- 00:03:21.760 --> 00:03:24.562
- She blamed her accountant for making the accounting error.
- 00:03:24.562 --> 00:03:27.932
- A newly revised disclosure shows she and her husband went
- 00:03:27.932 --> 00:03:30.702
- From $30 million in holdings to less than $100,000.
- 00:03:30.702 --> 00:03:35.240
- That's not an accounting error.
- 00:03:35.874 --> 00:03:37.175
- That's deceptive accounting.
- 00:03:37.175 --> 00:03:39.444
- We have
- 00:03:39.678 --> 00:03:40.879
- Found out there was brazen fraud taking place in minnesota.
- 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:43.882
- Even money that was meant to feed
- 00:03:43.882 --> 00:03:45.150
- Hungry kids and children with autism in minnesota.
- 00:03:45.150 --> 00:03:48.353
- Hundreds of millions of dollars allegedly stolen.
- 00:03:48.353 --> 00:03:51.690
- Well, how about the medicaid dollars?
- 00:03:51.690 --> 00:03:53.291
- The trump administration has suggested that the broader
- 00:03:53.291 --> 00:03:56.161
- Suspected exposure in minnesota could reach into the billions.
- 00:03:56.161 --> 00:03:59.664
- I would expect the governors and the mayors of the state,
- 00:04:00.799 --> 00:04:03.034
- Where billions of dollars
- 00:04:03.034 --> 00:04:04.169
- Are being stolen from taxpayers, to be outraged at that.
- 00:04:04.169 --> 00:04:08.239
- But that's not the response we've seen.
- 00:04:08.239 --> 00:04:10.809
- We should no longer tolerate government
- 00:04:10.809 --> 00:04:13.144
- Excess abuse or sloppiness.
- 00:04:13.144 --> 00:04:16.348
- I don't want to hear any more of the words.
- 00:04:16.348 --> 00:04:18.583
- I want to see measurable outcomes.
- 00:04:18.583 --> 00:04:20.885
- I'll tell you what i'm really watching for.
- 00:04:20.885 --> 00:04:22.520
- It's a biblical word.
- 00:04:22.520 --> 00:04:24.322
- It's repentance.
- 00:04:24.322 --> 00:04:25.590
- You see, if there's no repentance,
- 00:04:25.590 --> 00:04:26.925
- There's no real change.
- 00:04:26.925 --> 00:04:28.693
- Repentance carries with it two meanings.
- 00:04:28.693 --> 00:04:30.795
- It's a change of mind.
- 00:04:30.795 --> 00:04:32.397
- Which means i've been thinking about this the wrong way.
- 00:04:32.397 --> 00:04:35.100
- And it's a change of behavior, which means
- 00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:37.035
- I've been acting the wrong way.
- 00:04:37.035 --> 00:04:39.137
- So what i hear from elected officials, real repentance
- 00:04:39.137 --> 00:04:42.140
- When i hear them say,
- 00:04:42.140 --> 00:04:43.241
- I brought about this wrong and i have behaved wrong,
- 00:04:43.241 --> 00:04:46.978
- Then i'll trust them to oversee what's next without repentance.
- 00:04:46.978 --> 00:04:50.715
- They're simply stalling.
- 00:04:50.715 --> 00:04:52.283
- They're trying to run out the clock
- 00:04:52.283 --> 00:04:53.585
- Until they can be in power again.
- 00:04:53.585 --> 00:04:55.920
- If politicians who lacked integrity wasn't bad enough,
- 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:58.857
- How about the legacy media members
- 00:04:58.857 --> 00:05:00.759
- Who don't say a thing about the corruption,
- 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:02.460
- The fraud, the stealing that's taking place?
- 00:05:02.460 --> 00:05:04.996
- What would it take for somebody like the atlantic,
- 00:05:04.996 --> 00:05:07.165
- The washington post, or the new york times to say
- 00:05:07.165 --> 00:05:10.268
- That this is a problem, to say that the billions of dollars
- 00:05:10.268 --> 00:05:13.338
- Being fraudulently taken from the american people is bad.
- 00:05:13.338 --> 00:05:16.608
- We as the church can't sit quiet in this season.
- 00:05:17.542 --> 00:05:19.878
- We have an assignment
- 00:05:19.878 --> 00:05:20.812
- To stand for the truth, the search for it,
- 00:05:20.812 --> 00:05:23.148
- Because the solution to society's ills.
- 00:05:23.148 --> 00:05:25.517
- It is a political. it's spiritual.
- 00:05:25.517 --> 00:05:28.019
- We must have a faith that is living and vital,
- 00:05:28.019 --> 00:05:30.789
- A faith that requires
- 00:05:30.789 --> 00:05:31.923
- Situational awareness of the world we're living in.
- 00:05:31.923 --> 00:05:34.692
- We've got to tell the truth in terms of today.
- 00:05:34.692 --> 00:05:37.128
- We must determine to be champions of the truth.
- 00:05:37.128 --> 00:05:41.199
- Well, the federal deficit approaching $40 trillion.
- 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.735
- Alarms are sounding and economic circles.
- 00:05:43.735 --> 00:05:46.237
- The stealing is close to $1 trillion a year.
- 00:05:46.237 --> 00:05:48.907
- And growing.
- 00:05:48.907 --> 00:05:50.341
- In a moment, we'll be joined by jeff clark.
- 00:05:50.341 --> 00:05:52.310
- He's the vice president of litigation
- 00:05:52.310 --> 00:05:54.312
- At the oversight project.
- 00:05:54.312 --> 00:05:56.281
- I'll be right back.
- 00:05:56.281 --> 00:06:02.008
- I'll be right back.
- 00:06:02.008 --> 00:06:07.328
- The federal debt is so large
- 00:06:07.929 --> 00:06:09.931
- That it's hard to fathom what $39 trillion represents.
- 00:06:09.931 --> 00:06:13.634
- But consider this it was 1982 when the federal debt
- 00:06:13.634 --> 00:06:16.671
- First passed the $1 trillion mark,
- 00:06:16.671 --> 00:06:19.574
- Which means that between 1982 and 2026,
- 00:06:19.574 --> 00:06:23.044
- We've taken on $38 trillion more.
- 00:06:23.044 --> 00:06:26.414
- We pay more in interest on the debt
- 00:06:26.414 --> 00:06:28.216
- Than we do for our defense budget.
- 00:06:28.216 --> 00:06:30.818
- It's one thing to get spending under control,
- 00:06:30.818 --> 00:06:32.820
- But it's quite another to get stopped.
- 00:06:32.820 --> 00:06:34.555
- The stealing.
- 00:06:34.555 --> 00:06:36.023
- In washington, d.c., the oversight project targets
- 00:06:36.023 --> 00:06:38.726
- Corruption, stealing and fraud within the government.
- 00:06:38.726 --> 00:06:41.896
- And we're joined now by their vice
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- President of litigation, jeff clark.
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- Welcome to our program, sir.
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- It's good to be here.
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- Pastor allen, thank you.
- 00:06:49.670 --> 00:06:51.639
- The headlines have been focused on california and minneapolis,
- 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:54.809
- But very little has been said, at least publicly,
- 00:06:54.809 --> 00:06:57.278
- About the stealing from within the government.
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- Maybe we start by you telling us what you know about how vast
- 00:06:59.714 --> 00:07:02.550
- That fraud inside government is.
- 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:05.820
- It is vast.
- 00:07:06.153 --> 00:07:07.188
- And, you know,
- 00:07:07.188 --> 00:07:08.289
- I wish i could tell you the details of cases that were
- 00:07:08.289 --> 00:07:12.426
- Referred by omb to, the justice department
- 00:07:12.426 --> 00:07:16.197
- Or to inspector general about, that.
- 00:07:16.197 --> 00:07:20.268
- If you're not aware, i left, omb about two months ago,
- 00:07:20.268 --> 00:07:24.472
- So i was serving in the in the white house
- 00:07:24.472 --> 00:07:26.574
- And was privy to a lot of these reports and interface,
- 00:07:26.574 --> 00:07:30.878
- Frequently with, doj's when that was really in its
- 00:07:30.878 --> 00:07:34.582
- Heyday for the first six months or so of the trump
- 00:07:34.582 --> 00:07:38.586
- Administration in 2025.
- 00:07:38.586 --> 00:07:40.888
- And the other thing, probably a lot of your viewers
- 00:07:40.888 --> 00:07:43.591
- May not understand about omb.
- 00:07:43.591 --> 00:07:45.192
- They just think it's about, the budget is that the,
- 00:07:45.192 --> 00:07:50.031
- The council on inspectors general
- 00:07:50.031 --> 00:07:52.600
- Actually has a reporting relationship into omb.
- 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:55.870
- So omb, gets to work with, and in many ways
- 00:07:55.870 --> 00:08:00.308
- Direct
- 00:08:00.308 --> 00:08:01.509
- The activities of the inspectors general, which are tasked
- 00:08:01.509 --> 00:08:04.045
- With, pastor allen rooting out waste, fraud and abuse.
- 00:08:04.045 --> 00:08:08.449
- So, you know, there was a major initiative.
- 00:08:08.449 --> 00:08:11.152
- Let me let me take them off. right.
- 00:08:11.152 --> 00:08:12.553
- So we had doj's looking at waste, fraud and abuse.
- 00:08:12.553 --> 00:08:16.290
- And then,
- 00:08:16.591 --> 00:08:17.925
- Working with us, we had our own independent efforts to do that.
- 00:08:17.925 --> 00:08:21.462
- We had the inspectors general looking at that.
- 00:08:21.462 --> 00:08:24.765
- Now, a new division at
- 00:08:25.232 --> 00:08:27.635
- Doj has been created to combat fraud.
- 00:08:27.635 --> 00:08:31.439
- And in trump 45, i spent more than two years at, at doj.
- 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:35.977
- So it's it's interesting to, to, to observe the creation
- 00:08:35.977 --> 00:08:40.014
- Of a new litigating division that doesn't happen every day.
- 00:08:40.014 --> 00:08:42.516
- The last time it happened was the first time i was at doj.
- 00:08:42.516 --> 00:08:46.153
- There was a new litigating division,
- 00:08:46.153 --> 00:08:47.989
- Created the national security division after nine over 11.
- 00:08:47.989 --> 00:08:52.026
- And then the last thing to note is that, obviously,
- 00:08:52.026 --> 00:08:54.295
- The president gave vice president vance
- 00:08:54.295 --> 00:08:56.530
- A special tasking to look at waste, fraud and abuse.
- 00:08:56.530 --> 00:09:00.568
- So, you know, we have a lot of,
- 00:09:00.568 --> 00:09:03.771
- More eyes on this problem than we had before.
- 00:09:03.771 --> 00:09:06.774
- And we also have, you know, great independent journalists,
- 00:09:06.774 --> 00:09:10.344
- You know, like nick shurley, who ferreted out things
- 00:09:10.344 --> 00:09:13.280
- Like the quality hearing center in minnesota.
- 00:09:13.280 --> 00:09:16.751
- So it's a it's an exciting time.
- 00:09:16.751 --> 00:09:18.853
- And, you know, it's just it's so sad to see
- 00:09:18.853 --> 00:09:21.922
- How much the federal taxpayer gets ripped off by
- 00:09:21.922 --> 00:09:25.259
- Unscrupulous individuals.
- 00:09:25.259 --> 00:09:26.894
- You know, there are endless examples.
- 00:09:27.728 --> 00:09:29.864
- The one that i mentioned in the open described
- 00:09:29.864 --> 00:09:31.832
- A national park employee who over the years
- 00:09:31.832 --> 00:09:34.035
- Stole $250,000 from people who were paying to go on tours.
- 00:09:34.035 --> 00:09:38.572
- They caught her on videotape.
- 00:09:38.572 --> 00:09:40.741
- How are most of these
- 00:09:40.741 --> 00:09:41.942
- Federal workers caught, and what percentage of prosecuted?
- 00:09:41.942 --> 00:09:45.613
- Not as much as you might think.
- 00:09:46.247 --> 00:09:47.882
- And, you know,
- 00:09:47.882 --> 00:09:49.050
- There's a referral process there to doj for that doj then
- 00:09:49.050 --> 00:09:52.453
- To to exercise its prosecutorial discretion on that.
- 00:09:52.453 --> 00:09:57.458
- You're reminding me managing, the national park service that,
- 00:09:57.458 --> 00:10:02.263
- You know, this is not a new phenomenon either.
- 00:10:02.263 --> 00:10:04.699
- So if i go back to my service in the bush 43 administration,
- 00:10:04.699 --> 00:10:08.736
- When i was at the environment division,
- 00:10:08.736 --> 00:10:10.271
- There was a famous case that involved,
- 00:10:10.271 --> 00:10:12.840
- Something where, you know, there wasn't someone directly
- 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:15.443
- Lining their pockets, but it was someone doing,
- 00:10:15.443 --> 00:10:18.479
- Something that was incredibly harmful to the national economy.
- 00:10:18.479 --> 00:10:21.415
- Namely, they were planting links hairs,
- 00:10:21.415 --> 00:10:25.653
- So that the endangered species act would get triggered
- 00:10:25.653 --> 00:10:28.656
- As to particular regions. right.
- 00:10:28.656 --> 00:10:30.224
- And the the upshot of that, alan, is that,
- 00:10:30.224 --> 00:10:34.795
- You know, the the incredibly onerous regulatory
- 00:10:34.795 --> 00:10:38.032
- Regime of the endangered species act would kick in.
- 00:10:38.032 --> 00:10:41.235
- This can block, you know, the ability to to,
- 00:10:41.235 --> 00:10:45.005
- Develop things on your land block
- 00:10:45.005 --> 00:10:46.741
- The ability to get for federal permits
- 00:10:46.741 --> 00:10:48.976
- So that you can make changes to your lands,
- 00:10:48.976 --> 00:10:50.878
- Like, build a new road or put up a building.
- 00:10:50.878 --> 00:10:54.148
- And so, you know,
- 00:10:54.148 --> 00:10:55.349
- This caused a lot more damage than than $250,000, right?
- 00:10:55.349 --> 00:10:59.353
- So that the amount of,
- 00:10:59.353 --> 00:11:02.556
- Fraud in terms of dollars, whether you consider it
- 00:11:02.556 --> 00:11:05.226
- In terms of its impacts, like this example
- 00:11:05.226 --> 00:11:07.328
- I just gave about the the lynx, the canadian lynx, or,
- 00:11:07.328 --> 00:11:11.599
- You know, it's it is something where somebody,
- 00:11:11.599 --> 00:11:13.834
- You know, dipping their hand into the tail
- 00:11:13.834 --> 00:11:16.303
- Or redirecting money to themselves
- 00:11:16.303 --> 00:11:18.205
- That they're not entitled to get, is just, you know, vast
- 00:11:18.205 --> 00:11:22.042
- And you know, i can also say that when i was in trump,
- 00:11:22.042 --> 00:11:25.212
- 45, in the civil, the running, the civil division,
- 00:11:25.212 --> 00:11:28.783
- You know, the false claim,
- 00:11:29.350 --> 00:11:30.518
- All false claims act cases run through the civil division.
- 00:11:30.518 --> 00:11:34.688
- And if private people filed those cases, the civil
- 00:11:34.688 --> 00:11:38.359
- Division gets to decide whether to let them
- 00:11:38.359 --> 00:11:40.327
- Keep going forward or not.
- 00:11:40.327 --> 00:11:42.096
- And, you know, i saw a lot of health care abuse,
- 00:11:42.096 --> 00:11:45.466
- Going back then.
- 00:11:45.866 --> 00:11:47.201
- And, you know, we we did our best even in trump 45
- 00:11:47.201 --> 00:11:51.071
- To try to throw, the book at that, that kind of conduct,
- 00:11:51.071 --> 00:11:54.909
- You know, until president trump launched the doj's committee
- 00:11:56.076 --> 00:11:58.746
- And then later appointed j.d.
- 00:11:58.746 --> 00:11:59.880
- Vance to oversee the investigations of fraud.
- 00:11:59.880 --> 00:12:02.950
- It's just all too easy to steal.
- 00:12:02.950 --> 00:12:04.351
- And i get caught.
- 00:12:04.351 --> 00:12:05.686
- Vance says that they're going after the thieves.
- 00:12:05.686 --> 00:12:08.255
- Full steam ahead. listen to his comments.
- 00:12:08.255 --> 00:12:11.192
- We've got 280 law enforcement officers
- 00:12:11.192 --> 00:12:13.360
- Working on this problem.
- 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:14.595
- We really have the most accelerated, aggressive
- 00:12:14.595 --> 00:12:17.865
- Anti-fraud operation
- 00:12:17.865 --> 00:12:19.366
- That we've ever seen from the federal government.
- 00:12:19.366 --> 00:12:21.669
- And again, it's because the president,
- 00:12:21.669 --> 00:12:23.137
- United states, empowered his team to go after this.
- 00:12:23.137 --> 00:12:26.106
- Will they be going after the
- 00:12:26.707 --> 00:12:27.775
- Inside government fraud as well as the outsiders?
- 00:12:27.775 --> 00:12:30.978
- I think so, and i think, that the inside fraud
- 00:12:31.946 --> 00:12:35.783
- Is especially disturbing, right, because people take
- 00:12:35.783 --> 00:12:39.186
- An oath of office when they join, even, you know,
- 00:12:39.186 --> 00:12:42.489
- People who are not at the tippy top of the executive branch.
- 00:12:42.489 --> 00:12:46.227
- And so, you know, it's a it's a breach of the public trust.
- 00:12:46.227 --> 00:12:50.030
- If you're talking about
- 00:12:50.030 --> 00:12:51.065
- A private individual who is, you know, skimming
- 00:12:51.065 --> 00:12:53.934
- Money out of, medicare, that's bad.
- 00:12:53.934 --> 00:12:56.036
- That's terrible.
- 00:12:56.036 --> 00:12:57.171
- But, you know, i, i consider it to be multiplied
- 00:12:57.171 --> 00:13:00.441
- When you're talking about public workers
- 00:13:00.441 --> 00:13:02.710
- Who are abusing the public trust of their office.
- 00:13:02.710 --> 00:13:05.713
- And, you know, that that's the kind of thing where,
- 00:13:05.713 --> 00:13:08.549
- Especially if criminal cases are brought against them
- 00:13:08.549 --> 00:13:11.151
- Becomes the basis for sentencing enhancements,
- 00:13:11.151 --> 00:13:14.021
- And it should work like that.
- 00:13:14.021 --> 00:13:16.357
- Well, jeff, we need to take a short break here.
- 00:13:16.357 --> 00:13:18.058
- Will you stand by for another segment?
- 00:13:18.058 --> 00:13:20.094
- I will, thank you.
- 00:13:20.527 --> 00:13:21.729
- And if you got your phone in your head,
- 00:13:21.729 --> 00:13:23.097
- You can try logging on to ag now.com.
- 00:13:23.097 --> 00:13:25.399
- Or you can send me an email.
- 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:26.734
- You can see how easy it is in the animation.
- 00:13:26.734 --> 00:13:29.536
- I'll be right back.
- 00:13:29.536 --> 00:13:36.002
- I'll be right back.
- 00:13:36.002 --> 00:13:41.073
- We're back now with the vice president of the litigation
- 00:13:42.208 --> 00:13:44.710
- At the oversight project, jeff clark.
- 00:13:44.710 --> 00:13:47.847
- Do you have any sense of why it seems to have become so easy
- 00:13:47.847 --> 00:13:50.816
- For so many people to think it's okay
- 00:13:50.816 --> 00:13:52.551
- For people to steal from the government?
- 00:13:52.551 --> 00:13:54.320
- Are the penalties too small?
- 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:55.755
- Too few and far between.
- 00:13:55.755 --> 00:13:57.223
- What is it?
- 00:13:57.223 --> 00:13:59.425
- I think that, the the penalty regime is healthy.
- 00:13:59.425 --> 00:14:03.362
- Not that it couldn't be increased even more.
- 00:14:03.362 --> 00:14:06.799
- But i think the biggest problem
- 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:08.301
- Is the fact that the government is just too darn big.
- 00:14:08.301 --> 00:14:11.904
- Alan, you know, the more fingers,
- 00:14:11.904 --> 00:14:14.974
- The more pies it puts its fingers into
- 00:14:14.974 --> 00:14:17.176
- And the deeper it it, smashes its fingers into those pies,
- 00:14:17.176 --> 00:14:21.847
- The more opportunities there are for fraud.
- 00:14:21.847 --> 00:14:24.550
- And, you know, you just you wind up in a spot where
- 00:14:24.550 --> 00:14:27.653
- There aren't enough people to be watching everybody
- 00:14:27.653 --> 00:14:31.190
- On a daily basis.
- 00:14:31.190 --> 00:14:32.358
- And, you know, the, the,
- 00:14:32.358 --> 00:14:34.894
- The moral standards of the country
- 00:14:34.894 --> 00:14:36.662
- Are such that a lot of people, if they're not being watched,
- 00:14:36.662 --> 00:14:39.598
- If there's not,
- 00:14:39.598 --> 00:14:40.800
- You know, a direct control, if there's not an automatic audit
- 00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:44.136
- That's going to, find them out and they know about that and,
- 00:14:44.136 --> 00:14:47.173
- You know, they're tempted to to get something for themselves,
- 00:14:47.173 --> 00:14:50.376
- And you know, that that's bad enough.
- 00:14:50.376 --> 00:14:52.912
- But, you know, obviously, the industrial scale,
- 00:14:52.912 --> 00:14:56.282
- Things we're seeing in california
- 00:14:56.282 --> 00:14:57.950
- That have been exposed and in minnesota,
- 00:14:57.950 --> 00:14:59.785
- I mean,
- 00:14:59.785 --> 00:15:00.953
- Those are the things that really need to be prioritized.
- 00:15:00.953 --> 00:15:03.856
- And that's that's where this new division
- 00:15:03.856 --> 00:15:05.658
- And doj comes in, because they will look across the field
- 00:15:05.658 --> 00:15:09.528
- And they'll prioritize
- 00:15:09.528 --> 00:15:11.163
- Getting the biggest bang for the buck in terms of
- 00:15:11.163 --> 00:15:13.866
- Where they put their enforcement resources
- 00:15:13.866 --> 00:15:15.634
- So that they cut off as much fraud as possible.
- 00:15:15.634 --> 00:15:18.838
- When cases like the clearing center and the many fraudulent
- 00:15:19.972 --> 00:15:23.142
- Hospice centers in california become so public,
- 00:15:23.142 --> 00:15:25.945
- Does that drive more inside calls on theft
- 00:15:25.945 --> 00:15:28.114
- Going and going on in government,
- 00:15:28.114 --> 00:15:29.949
- Or calls to your organization to track them down?
- 00:15:29.949 --> 00:15:33.152
- Yes. so, you know,
- 00:15:33.586 --> 00:15:35.254
- We will, receive tips from whistleblowers and,
- 00:15:35.254 --> 00:15:39.358
- You know, they'll contact us.
- 00:15:39.992 --> 00:15:42.294
- They can also report things to the inspectors
- 00:15:42.294 --> 00:15:44.964
- General of the relevant
- 00:15:44.964 --> 00:15:46.999
- Departments, like the inspector general of hhs,
- 00:15:46.999 --> 00:15:49.869
- Based on on the example you just gave, california would be,
- 00:15:49.869 --> 00:15:54.106
- A good place for for people to start.
- 00:15:54.106 --> 00:15:56.442
- But, you know, we if we're contacted where
- 00:15:56.442 --> 00:15:58.811
- We'll be happy to,
- 00:15:58.811 --> 00:16:00.046
- To talk to anyone who comes in through our website, and,
- 00:16:00.046 --> 00:16:04.183
- You know, try to, to,
- 00:16:04.683 --> 00:16:06.552
- Think about whether we might want to represent them
- 00:16:06.552 --> 00:16:09.622
- Or if, you know, our resources don't permit that.
- 00:16:09.622 --> 00:16:13.025
- You know where to send them so that,
- 00:16:13.025 --> 00:16:15.761
- Their tips are processed by the appropriate folks
- 00:16:15.761 --> 00:16:19.265
- As more cases of fraud are becoming public.
- 00:16:20.199 --> 00:16:23.469
- Do you expect that the fraud will slow down,
- 00:16:23.469 --> 00:16:25.805
- Or will people just get better at hiding it?
- 00:16:25.805 --> 00:16:29.108
- Well, i think what i've observed over time
- 00:16:29.108 --> 00:16:32.511
- Is that if there's a particular area that is very profitable,
- 00:16:32.511 --> 00:16:36.615
- But then there's the enforcement initiative against it.
- 00:16:36.615 --> 00:16:39.585
- It's not like you can ever entirely root out
- 00:16:39.585 --> 00:16:42.154
- This problem, right? it's about our fallen human nature.
- 00:16:42.154 --> 00:16:45.124
- But then, you know, the criminal elements
- 00:16:45.124 --> 00:16:47.326
- Shift in to some new scam that they create.
- 00:16:47.326 --> 00:16:50.396
- I should mention something else,
- 00:16:50.396 --> 00:16:51.564
- Which maybe not a lot of people know.
- 00:16:51.564 --> 00:16:53.365
- But i did mention the false claims act.
- 00:16:53.365 --> 00:16:55.434
- So the false claims act and and the way it works goes back
- 00:16:55.434 --> 00:16:58.504
- All the way, you know, centuries to england,
- 00:16:58.504 --> 00:17:02.007
- To a latin term called key town.
- 00:17:02.007 --> 00:17:05.044
- And so if you're someone who is inside an organization,
- 00:17:05.044 --> 00:17:08.481
- Whether it's a government organization
- 00:17:08.481 --> 00:17:10.716
- Or a, a private organization,
- 00:17:10.716 --> 00:17:14.220
- Where the private organization has a contract
- 00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:17.022
- With the federal government, right?
- 00:17:17.022 --> 00:17:18.157
- It has to have some nexus to the federal government
- 00:17:18.157 --> 00:17:20.659
- Fisc being raided.
- 00:17:20.659 --> 00:17:22.161
- Then you can come forward.
- 00:17:22.161 --> 00:17:24.263
- You become what's called a relator.
- 00:17:24.263 --> 00:17:26.465
- And if the federal government recovers money
- 00:17:26.465 --> 00:17:30.169
- Or you fighting for them on their behalf, recovers money,
- 00:17:30.169 --> 00:17:32.872
- You get to keep a portion of that.
- 00:17:32.872 --> 00:17:34.807
- And the rest of it goes into the fisc.
- 00:17:34.807 --> 00:17:37.076
- So there's a system that was created long ago
- 00:17:37.076 --> 00:17:39.612
- By the, the english king that would allow,
- 00:17:39.612 --> 00:17:43.415
- You know, incentives to be created to sort of avoid,
- 00:17:43.415 --> 00:17:47.219
- You know, fraud ripping off the government and,
- 00:17:47.219 --> 00:17:49.955
- Like,
- 00:17:49.955 --> 00:17:50.856
- If they needed to do that back at a time
- 00:17:50.856 --> 00:17:52.458
- When their governments were tiny.
- 00:17:52.458 --> 00:17:54.527
- Think how much, you know, more important that tool is now
- 00:17:54.527 --> 00:17:58.130
- When the federal government is just vast beyond measure.
- 00:17:58.130 --> 00:18:02.434
- Well, iowa's
- 00:18:02.768 --> 00:18:03.836
- Republican senator joni ernst, she put it this way.
- 00:18:03.836 --> 00:18:07.006
- Any bureaucrat busted for treating government
- 00:18:07.006 --> 00:18:09.008
- Benefits like a self-service buffet should be served
- 00:18:09.008 --> 00:18:12.011
- Their next tax payer funded meal behind bars.
- 00:18:12.011 --> 00:18:16.115
- You're the vice president of litigation.
- 00:18:16.115 --> 00:18:17.850
- She's on the right track.
- 00:18:17.850 --> 00:18:21.220
- And since you mentioned you know her as an iowa senator,
- 00:18:19.952 --> 00:18:24.823
- You know,
- 00:18:25.124 --> 00:18:26.258
- One of the the main proponents of the false claims act,
- 00:18:26.258 --> 00:18:29.495
- Being interpreted to, to weed out, waste, fraud and abuse,
- 00:18:29.495 --> 00:18:33.399
- You know, to help her get what's,
- 00:18:34.166 --> 00:18:36.569
- They deserve in terms of, like, pointing that out,
- 00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:39.138
- Bringing it to the federal
- 00:18:39.138 --> 00:18:40.239
- Government's attention so that the recovery can happen
- 00:18:40.239 --> 00:18:43.242
- Is senator chuck grassley.
- 00:18:43.242 --> 00:18:44.643
- He's been on that, cause for for decades.
- 00:18:44.643 --> 00:18:48.514
- And, you know, he follows it very carefully.
- 00:18:48.514 --> 00:18:51.050
- So if there's any attempt
- 00:18:51.050 --> 00:18:52.818
- To kind of make, you know, some kind of, reduction
- 00:18:52.818 --> 00:18:56.622
- In scope of that statute, he, he shows up to oppose it
- 00:18:56.622 --> 00:19:00.593
- Because he thinks it's a vital tool.
- 00:19:00.593 --> 00:19:02.628
- And like i said, you know, it's it's a been a cause of his for
- 00:19:02.628 --> 00:19:06.532
- A very long time.
- 00:19:06.532 --> 00:19:08.200
- Well, jeff, thanks for your time today.
- 00:19:09.068 --> 00:19:10.736
- If someone listening knows of some egregious abuse
- 00:19:10.736 --> 00:19:13.372
- Or fraud, where would they go to report it?
- 00:19:13.372 --> 00:19:16.642
- Well, like i said, you know, you if you know that
- 00:19:16.642 --> 00:19:20.279
- What part of the government it hits, you can then google, or,
- 00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:24.984
- You know, use ai or whatever your search method
- 00:19:24.984 --> 00:19:27.019
- Is to look up,
- 00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:28.787
- The inspector general for that department, for that agency.
- 00:19:28.787 --> 00:19:32.157
- That's one thing you can do.
- 00:19:32.157 --> 00:19:33.726
- Or, you know, if if,
- 00:19:33.726 --> 00:19:36.695
- You know, you you thought that, i might be able to be helpful.
- 00:19:36.695 --> 00:19:39.665
- And my colleagues,
- 00:19:39.665 --> 00:19:40.866
- We have a number of lawyers at the oversight project.
- 00:19:40.866 --> 00:19:44.003
- We could talk to you and, like i said, you know,
- 00:19:44.003 --> 00:19:47.373
- We might point you, in the right place to to the government if,
- 00:19:47.373 --> 00:19:51.443
- You can't quite figure that out.
- 00:19:52.077 --> 00:19:53.279
- And sometimes, again, given how vast the government is
- 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:56.181
- And the structures are so complicated, you may be like,
- 00:19:56.181 --> 00:19:58.617
- I don't know what agency this is in,
- 00:19:58.617 --> 00:20:00.352
- But we could help you track that down. awesome.
- 00:20:00.352 --> 00:20:02.688
- What's your website's name?
- 00:20:02.688 --> 00:20:05.090
- It is.
- 00:20:05.291 --> 00:20:05.924
- It's your gov.org.
- 00:20:05.924 --> 00:20:08.294
- So just a word.
- 00:20:08.294 --> 00:20:09.094
- It's your, why you you are gov.
- 00:20:09.094 --> 00:20:12.765
- Gov.org.
- 00:20:12.765 --> 00:20:15.100
- And there are no spaces between the the words.
- 00:20:15.100 --> 00:20:19.204
- But we look forward to reporting on the progress
- 00:20:19.204 --> 00:20:21.507
- You make in the months ahead
- 00:20:21.507 --> 00:20:22.675
- And hope you'll come back and tell us more when you can.
- 00:20:22.675 --> 00:20:25.678
- Thank you pastor.
- 00:20:25.678 --> 00:20:27.179
- We'll be back in just a moment.
- 00:20:27.179 --> 00:20:30.999
- We'll be back in just a moment.
- 00:20:30.999 --> 00:20:31.579
- Thank you for taking the time
- 00:20:32.213 --> 00:20:33.481
- To send your emails, your questions and thoughts.
- 00:20:33.481 --> 00:20:35.950
- We always look forward to them.
- 00:20:35.950 --> 00:20:37.786
- Kimberly from texas road.
- 00:20:37.786 --> 00:20:39.721
- Why did the comedians and talk shows
- 00:20:39.721 --> 00:20:41.690
- Think they should talk about our president the way they do?
- 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:44.693
- It's sad.
- 00:20:44.693 --> 00:20:46.628
- I agree, it's sad sometimes.
- 00:20:46.628 --> 00:20:48.296
- It's infuriating.
- 00:20:48.296 --> 00:20:49.497
- It seems to me that comedians,
- 00:20:49.497 --> 00:20:51.900
- Even education, have become more propaganda centers
- 00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:55.303
- Where they attack worldviews that they don't agree with.
- 00:20:55.303 --> 00:20:57.872
- They don't have to use logic or common sense.
- 00:20:57.872 --> 00:21:00.141
- They're just filled with anger and bitterness.
- 00:21:00.141 --> 00:21:02.711
- It's easy to change the channel,
- 00:21:02.711 --> 00:21:03.945
- And if you do so, you can change your attitude.
- 00:21:03.945 --> 00:21:07.148
- Lee from georgia wrote
- 00:21:07.615 --> 00:21:09.551
- Parents are now being held liable for allowing access
- 00:21:09.551 --> 00:21:12.253
- To guns for their children when they go to school
- 00:21:12.253 --> 00:21:14.356
- And murder classmates and others.
- 00:21:14.356 --> 00:21:16.658
- Shouldn't rogue prosecutors and judges be held liable
- 00:21:16.658 --> 00:21:19.594
- For releasing violent criminals back onto our streets?
- 00:21:19.594 --> 00:21:22.931
- Well, i'm not an attorney.
- 00:21:23.498 --> 00:21:24.432
- I don't know the ins and outs.
- 00:21:24.432 --> 00:21:26.000
- I am a citizen, and i know
- 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.168
- That we elect our prosecutors and many of our judges.
- 00:21:27.168 --> 00:21:31.005
- I think if we'll pay more attention
- 00:21:31.005 --> 00:21:32.407
- At the ballot box and be more involved in the process.
- 00:21:32.407 --> 00:21:35.977
- This is an election year and election season for primaries.
- 00:21:35.977 --> 00:21:39.547
- I hope you're planning to participate.
- 00:21:39.547 --> 00:21:41.616
- If you're not participating,
- 00:21:41.616 --> 00:21:42.951
- You are forfeiting the rights of citizenship.
- 00:21:42.951 --> 00:21:46.921
- Finally, fred from katy, texas.
- 00:21:47.555 --> 00:21:50.225
- What happens to good people when they die?
- 00:21:50.225 --> 00:21:53.695
- Well, the question is not complete
- 00:21:54.462 --> 00:21:56.464
- Because good is not
- 00:21:56.464 --> 00:21:57.999
- The characteristic that determines our eternity.
- 00:21:57.999 --> 00:22:00.468
- It's our relationship to the person of jesus of nazareth.
- 00:22:00.468 --> 00:22:04.072
- And so good alone is not sufficient.
- 00:22:04.072 --> 00:22:06.207
- I'm confident there will be good people in hell.
- 00:22:06.207 --> 00:22:08.309
- Kind people, generous people, polite people.
- 00:22:08.309 --> 00:22:11.346
- It's our relationship with jesus that determines our destiny.
- 00:22:11.346 --> 00:22:14.816
- It's why we want to share
- 00:22:14.816 --> 00:22:15.917
- The good news of what jesus has done in our lives.
- 00:22:15.917 --> 00:22:19.087
- It'll help out our friends and family members.
- 00:22:19.087 --> 00:22:22.323
- Thanks for the questions and for spending
- 00:22:22.323 --> 00:22:23.691
- A few minutes of your day with us.
- 00:22:23.691 --> 00:22:25.260
- God bless you and have a good evening.
- 00:22:25.260 --> 00:22:25.260