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Allen Jackson NOW | Allen Jackson: January 14, 2025 | Allen Jackson Now | January 14, 2025
- Good evening, i'm alan jackson.
- 00:00:02.794 --> 00:00:04.429
- Welcome to nashville.
- 00:00:04.429 --> 00:00:06.031
- It's been more than a year since the brutal hamas
- 00:00:06.031 --> 00:00:08.600
- Attack on the jews at the nobel music festival.
- 00:00:08.600 --> 00:00:12.037
- A year of tears and mourning, but also a year of pushing back.
- 00:00:12.037 --> 00:00:15.674
- Not just in gaza, but in lebanon and iran as well.
- 00:00:15.674 --> 00:00:20.078
- In this country, it's also been an extremely challenging year
- 00:00:20.078 --> 00:00:23.448
- Since the u.s.
- 00:00:23.448 --> 00:00:24.616
- And israel have a strong relationship and a rich history.
- 00:00:24.616 --> 00:00:27.352
- But from the college campuses
- 00:00:27.352 --> 00:00:28.753
- To the streets to the businesses and even neighborhoods,
- 00:00:28.753 --> 00:00:31.923
- Our jewish community in the states has been under attack.
- 00:00:31.923 --> 00:00:35.160
- No one is giving up.
- 00:00:35.160 --> 00:00:36.394
- And in some cases, it's made our jewish allies even stronger,
- 00:00:36.394 --> 00:00:39.531
- More ready to fight back, it seems.
- 00:00:39.531 --> 00:00:41.566
- Which brings us to our guest tonight,
- 00:00:41.566 --> 00:00:43.368
- Joining us right here in nashville, e.j.
- 00:00:43.368 --> 00:00:45.937
- Campbell, the director of the interfaith
- 00:00:45.937 --> 00:00:47.539
- Outreach and engagement, and natalie sanandaji,
- 00:00:47.539 --> 00:00:51.109
- Who survived the attack at the nova music festival
- 00:00:51.109 --> 00:00:53.879
- And is now a public affairs officer.
- 00:00:53.879 --> 00:00:56.448
- Both work for the combat anti-semitism movement.
- 00:00:56.448 --> 00:00:59.518
- Welcome to our. show.
- 00:01:00.018 --> 00:01:02.621
- Thank you.
- 00:01:02.621 --> 00:01:04.523
- Natalie, i want to start i think, with the most obvious.
- 00:01:03.355 --> 00:01:06.591
- We want to know how you're doing.
- 00:01:06.591 --> 00:01:07.959
- You've had over a year now since that horrific attack at nova.
- 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:11.329
- Tell us how you are.
- 00:01:11.796 --> 00:01:13.732
- I feel very fortunate, especially,
- 00:01:13.732 --> 00:01:17.068
- Since about a month after the attacks, i started
- 00:01:17.068 --> 00:01:19.671
- Working for the combat anti-semitism movement
- 00:01:19.671 --> 00:01:22.440
- And working with them and speaking out
- 00:01:22.440 --> 00:01:25.110
- And speaking out on the news and interviewing
- 00:01:25.110 --> 00:01:27.846
- Has given me the opportunity to take something horrible
- 00:01:27.846 --> 00:01:30.448
- That happened to me and try to turn it into something good.
- 00:01:30.448 --> 00:01:33.652
- A lot of the work we do is with interfaith relations,
- 00:01:33.652 --> 00:01:36.555
- And i'm just trying to build a better future.
- 00:01:36.555 --> 00:01:40.258
- Well, i have been there.
- 00:01:40.792 --> 00:01:41.993
- I mean, i've walked through that field
- 00:01:41.993 --> 00:01:43.461
- And then i've walked through the
- 00:01:43.461 --> 00:01:45.030
- To the streets of those communities
- 00:01:45.030 --> 00:01:46.765
- That were so traumatized by that horror.
- 00:01:46.765 --> 00:01:49.968
- And i want you to just our
- 00:01:49.968 --> 00:01:53.572
- The compassion we have
- 00:01:54.039 --> 00:01:55.540
- For what you've been required to overcome, i think is amazing.
- 00:01:55.540 --> 00:01:59.077
- The courage you and the israeli community
- 00:01:59.077 --> 00:02:01.112
- Has demonstrated for the whole global community
- 00:02:01.112 --> 00:02:03.715
- To see the way you have overcome that is truly remarkable.
- 00:02:03.715 --> 00:02:06.618
- Thank you. it's a gift to all of us.
- 00:02:06.618 --> 00:02:08.620
- Thank you very much.
- 00:02:08.620 --> 00:02:09.854
- I think more people in this country need to hear your story,
- 00:02:09.854 --> 00:02:12.757
- Because the support from
- 00:02:12.757 --> 00:02:13.758
- This country has been unfortunately, mixed.
- 00:02:13.758 --> 00:02:17.028
- Something your prime minister
- 00:02:17.028 --> 00:02:18.363
- Was not hesitant about addressing.
- 00:02:18.363 --> 00:02:22.167
- What's happening on america's college campuses is horrific.
- 00:02:22.167 --> 00:02:25.637
- Antisemitic mobs have taken over leading
- 00:02:26.438 --> 00:02:28.506
- Universities that call for the annihilation of israel.
- 00:02:28.506 --> 00:02:31.543
- They attacked jewish students.
- 00:02:32.143 --> 00:02:33.745
- They attacked jewish faculty.
- 00:02:33.745 --> 00:02:35.614
- This is reminiscent of what happened
- 00:02:36.381 --> 00:02:37.782
- In german universities in the 1930s.
- 00:02:37.782 --> 00:02:40.919
- It's unconscionable.
- 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:42.487
- It has to be stopped.
- 00:02:42.487 --> 00:02:43.555
- It has to be condemned and condemned unequivocally.
- 00:02:43.555 --> 00:02:46.591
- But that's not what happened. the response
- 00:02:46.591 --> 00:02:48.994
- Of several university presidents was shameful.
- 00:02:48.994 --> 00:02:52.230
- I really want to hear from both of you on this.
- 00:02:52.230 --> 00:02:54.499
- I was shocked at what happened
- 00:02:54.499 --> 00:02:56.134
- Here in the states, on our university campuses.
- 00:02:56.134 --> 00:02:59.304
- Did you expect that?
- 00:02:59.771 --> 00:03:00.839
- Did you understand that was coming,
- 00:03:00.839 --> 00:03:02.574
- Or was that as much of a shock the use it was to me.
- 00:03:02.574 --> 00:03:05.076
- You tell us first, but i want you both to comment.
- 00:03:05.076 --> 00:03:07.379
- I started interviewing, just about four days
- 00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:10.915
- After the attacks.
- 00:03:10.915 --> 00:03:12.117
- And the reason why, to me, it felt so necessary to do so
- 00:03:12.117 --> 00:03:15.453
- Is because i completely expected this reaction from the world.
- 00:03:15.453 --> 00:03:19.324
- Unfortunately, i, i knew that very soon,
- 00:03:19.324 --> 00:03:23.728
- Right after the attacks,
- 00:03:23.728 --> 00:03:24.729
- There was a little bit of
- 00:03:24.729 --> 00:03:25.563
- Silence. and then i knew very soon
- 00:03:25.563 --> 00:03:28.633
- The world will start attacking us.
- 00:03:28.633 --> 00:03:30.835
- And that's why i wanted to interview.
- 00:03:30.835 --> 00:03:32.370
- I wanted to put a face to the statistics,
- 00:03:32.370 --> 00:03:35.573
- And i hoped that through interviewing,
- 00:03:35.573 --> 00:03:37.409
- People would see me and think to themselves,
- 00:03:37.409 --> 00:03:39.210
- You know, this could have been my daughter.
- 00:03:39.210 --> 00:03:41.212
- This could have been my friend.
- 00:03:41.212 --> 00:03:42.881
- I feel that it's harder to see a face
- 00:03:42.881 --> 00:03:47.485
- And then to flat out say these attacks were justified.
- 00:03:47.485 --> 00:03:50.822
- The rape was justified. the killing was justified.
- 00:03:50.822 --> 00:03:53.358
- So i did expect it.
- 00:03:53.358 --> 00:03:55.727
- And that's why
- 00:03:55.727 --> 00:03:57.228
- It was so important for me to start interviewing right away.
- 00:03:57.228 --> 00:04:01.566
- You know, e.j.,
- 00:04:01.933 --> 00:04:04.235
- I've lived in israel.
- 00:04:04.235 --> 00:04:05.236
- I studied at the university there.
- 00:04:05.236 --> 00:04:06.671
- So i have some awareness.
- 00:04:06.671 --> 00:04:08.840
- But i wasn't prepared for what boiled up on these campuses.
- 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:11.776
- Were you surprised by that?
- 00:04:11.776 --> 00:04:13.378
- Unfortunately, i was not.
- 00:04:13.378 --> 00:04:15.980
- As as an organization, we were started in february
- 00:04:15.980 --> 00:04:20.785
- 2019, and we were started because we saw that
- 00:04:20.785 --> 00:04:24.989
- There were areas in fighting anti-semitism
- 00:04:24.989 --> 00:04:28.093
- That weren't getting the
- 00:04:28.093 --> 00:04:29.361
- Attention they needed in a major area was on college campuses.
- 00:04:29.361 --> 00:04:32.931
- This issue was there for years.
- 00:04:32.931 --> 00:04:35.700
- It's been cultivated for generations
- 00:04:35.700 --> 00:04:39.471
- On these college campuses, and it was masked under the guise
- 00:04:39.471 --> 00:04:43.842
- Of free speech when they would shut down
- 00:04:43.842 --> 00:04:46.778
- Speakers who had viewpoints that they didn't agree with,
- 00:04:46.778 --> 00:04:49.981
- Whether it was conservative voices, whether it was idf
- 00:04:49.981 --> 00:04:53.918
- Or former idf soldiers coming to campus to talk.
- 00:04:53.918 --> 00:04:58.823
- So when october 7th happened, and 24 hours
- 00:04:58.823 --> 00:05:03.328
- Later, you've got protests starting on college campuses.
- 00:05:03.328 --> 00:05:06.598
- Sadly, it wasn't a shock to me, but to you and to many people,
- 00:05:06.598 --> 00:05:10.769
- It was a complete shock that this was happening.
- 00:05:10.769 --> 00:05:13.738
- But october 7th
- 00:05:13.738 --> 00:05:17.175
- Was not
- 00:05:17.409 --> 00:05:18.443
- The cause for the protests on college campuses.
- 00:05:18.443 --> 00:05:21.212
- October 7th was the excuse
- 00:05:21.780 --> 00:05:24.682
- To launch this movement on college campuses
- 00:05:24.682 --> 00:05:29.220
- Because they are they are siding with a terrorist organization,
- 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:34.526
- Not standing up for the rights of the palestinian people.
- 00:05:34.526 --> 00:05:38.596
- They were standing up for a terrorist organization
- 00:05:38.596 --> 00:05:42.367
- Aiming to commit genocide against the jewish people.
- 00:05:42.367 --> 00:05:45.937
- Well, what was shocking was these high profile universities.
- 00:05:45.937 --> 00:05:50.341
- I won't call him a lead any longer
- 00:05:50.341 --> 00:05:53.344
- With these high profile schools had clearly
- 00:05:53.344 --> 00:05:55.713
- Been creating propaganda in their students.
- 00:05:55.713 --> 00:05:58.950
- They weren't informed.
- 00:05:58.950 --> 00:06:00.084
- They didn't even understand what they were chanting.
- 00:06:00.084 --> 00:06:02.854
- They've just been mobilized along an ideology of hate,
- 00:06:02.854 --> 00:06:06.224
- And they're paying enormous amounts of money
- 00:06:07.158 --> 00:06:09.394
- To be programed in a very disgusting way.
- 00:06:09.394 --> 00:06:13.131
- So do you think we can change the nature of these campuses?
- 00:06:13.131 --> 00:06:16.401
- What do we have to do to turn that around?
- 00:06:16.401 --> 00:06:18.303
- Yeah, i think the biggest thing
- 00:06:18.303 --> 00:06:20.839
- To turn this around is leadership.
- 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:23.675
- We saw that certain universities where college presidents
- 00:06:23.675 --> 00:06:27.579
- Would come out and say, this is not okay on our campus.
- 00:06:27.579 --> 00:06:31.082
- We are going to stand up and protect
- 00:06:31.082 --> 00:06:33.384
- The rights of jewish students and not just jewish students,
- 00:06:33.384 --> 00:06:37.388
- But those that are supporting israel.
- 00:06:37.388 --> 00:06:40.191
- Right.
- 00:06:40.191 --> 00:06:41.259
- Versus these, you know, former, elite universities
- 00:06:41.259 --> 00:06:46.264
- Where their college presidents were afraid to speak the truth,
- 00:06:46.264 --> 00:06:50.134
- Which is that activity, those actions are reprehensible
- 00:06:50.134 --> 00:06:56.541
- And should be violating their codes of conduct
- 00:06:56.541 --> 00:07:00.478
- And should be called out immediately and shut down.
- 00:07:00.478 --> 00:07:04.082
- Those those were creating a hostile environment
- 00:07:04.082 --> 00:07:07.385
- For jewish students and would not have been tolerated against,
- 00:07:07.385 --> 00:07:11.789
- Any other minority group on their campus.
- 00:07:11.789 --> 00:07:15.560
- That's absolutely true.
- 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.028
- It's an issue of leadership, and it's something that
- 00:07:17.028 --> 00:07:20.632
- We've seen as a major failure at a lot of these universities.
- 00:07:20.632 --> 00:07:24.569
- And when we allow it in the universities
- 00:07:24.569 --> 00:07:26.871
- That it infects the broader culture,
- 00:07:26.871 --> 00:07:28.439
- Because the students absorb that propaganda and go out
- 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.776
- Into the marketplace with that hate planted in their soul.
- 00:07:31.776 --> 00:07:35.780
- I think a recent example of that that was so clear.
- 00:07:35.780 --> 00:07:37.849
- While the idf was mapping out a strategy to respond to iran,
- 00:07:37.849 --> 00:07:41.052
- Their plans were leaked from the pentagon.
- 00:07:41.953 --> 00:07:44.689
- I mean,
- 00:07:44.923 --> 00:07:45.723
- That is anti semitism on display.
- 00:07:45.723 --> 00:07:48.293
- But no doubt those seeds planted in some elite university.
- 00:07:48.293 --> 00:07:51.996
- How does that feel
- 00:07:52.430 --> 00:07:53.531
- To the jewish community when the pentagon is leaking
- 00:07:53.531 --> 00:07:56.401
- Israel's battle plans?
- 00:07:56.401 --> 00:07:59.170
- Yeah, it's, it's very dangerous.
- 00:07:59.170 --> 00:08:02.640
- And one of the biggest challenges from that leak
- 00:08:02.640 --> 00:08:06.711
- Was the trust between the united states and israel.
- 00:08:06.711 --> 00:08:10.848
- I mean, the the united states and israel are,
- 00:08:10.848 --> 00:08:14.085
- You know, israel is one of the united states, its closest
- 00:08:14.085 --> 00:08:17.755
- Ally and certainly the closest ally in the region.
- 00:08:17.755 --> 00:08:21.359
- And when israel cannot trust
- 00:08:21.359 --> 00:08:24.796
- That these conversations at high levels
- 00:08:24.796 --> 00:08:27.899
- Will be kept secret,
- 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:30.401
- It disturbs that trust.
- 00:08:30.401 --> 00:08:31.936
- And it's not just a threat for israel in the region.
- 00:08:31.936 --> 00:08:35.907
- But imagine now,
- 00:08:35.907 --> 00:08:37.075
- If israel is carrying out these actions against iran,
- 00:08:37.075 --> 00:08:41.112
- And the united states is partially in the dark about
- 00:08:41.112 --> 00:08:44.015
- What's going to happen and when it's going to happen.
- 00:08:44.015 --> 00:08:46.517
- And the risk
- 00:08:46.517 --> 00:08:47.752
- That that could potentially pose to our troops in the region.
- 00:08:47.752 --> 00:08:51.489
- So it's it's a very dangerous situation.
- 00:08:51.489 --> 00:08:54.492
- And you're right.
- 00:08:54.492 --> 00:08:55.593
- What's started on the college campuses,
- 00:08:55.593 --> 00:08:57.929
- All those people there, they go out and have jobs
- 00:08:57.929 --> 00:09:02.500
- And it
- 00:09:02.700 --> 00:09:03.534
- Permeates into their their daily lives.
- 00:09:03.534 --> 00:09:06.537
- Well, you're both very gracious.
- 00:09:07.171 --> 00:09:08.406
- It doesn't just disturb trust.
- 00:09:08.406 --> 00:09:09.974
- It's a breach of trust.
- 00:09:09.974 --> 00:09:11.976
- And that has to be identified, rooted out.
- 00:09:11.976 --> 00:09:14.112
- We can't tolerate it and accept that this.
- 00:09:14.112 --> 00:09:15.913
- It's just not okay.
- 00:09:15.913 --> 00:09:18.016
- When we come back, we'd like to hear what it was like for you.
- 00:09:18.016 --> 00:09:20.818
- Natalie. on october the 7th.
- 00:09:20.818 --> 00:09:22.887
- We'll be back in just a moment.
- 00:09:22.887 --> 00:09:29.009
- We'll be back in just a moment.
- 00:09:29.009 --> 00:09:31.696
- Well, we're back now with e.j.
- 00:09:32.296 --> 00:09:33.631
- Kimball, the director of interfaith
- 00:09:33.631 --> 00:09:35.099
- Outreach and engagement
- 00:09:35.099 --> 00:09:36.834
- And the public affairs officer, natalie sanandaji.
- 00:09:36.834 --> 00:09:40.104
- They both now work to combat anti-semitism.
- 00:09:40.104 --> 00:09:43.374
- Natalie, can you take just a few minutes
- 00:09:44.208 --> 00:09:46.344
- And tell us about your experiences on october 7th?
- 00:09:46.344 --> 00:09:49.047
- We've seen the news clips, but i'm sure
- 00:09:49.047 --> 00:09:51.416
- What your experiences were dramatically different.
- 00:09:51.416 --> 00:09:54.218
- So me and my friends arrived at the festival at around 1 a.m..
- 00:09:54.218 --> 00:09:58.156
- And typically with festivals like these,
- 00:09:58.156 --> 00:10:00.024
- They go anywhere from 24 hours to three days.
- 00:10:00.024 --> 00:10:02.794
- So you bring camping gear with you.
- 00:10:02.794 --> 00:10:04.495
- You bring sleeping bags and tents.
- 00:10:04.495 --> 00:10:06.664
- And after a few hours of dancing, me
- 00:10:06.664 --> 00:10:08.900
- And my friends
- 00:10:08.900 --> 00:10:10.134
- Decided to rest for a few hours and wake up for the sunrise
- 00:10:10.134 --> 00:10:12.537
- Set of the festival, which is supposed
- 00:10:12.537 --> 00:10:14.439
- To be the most exciting part.
- 00:10:14.439 --> 00:10:16.641
- And instead of waking up to the sound of the sunrise set music,
- 00:10:16.641 --> 00:10:20.111
- We woke up to the sound of rockets.
- 00:10:20.111 --> 00:10:21.846
- And for me, when i started interviewing,
- 00:10:22.647 --> 00:10:24.582
- One of the most important things for me to point out
- 00:10:24.582 --> 00:10:26.818
- To american audiences is the way we were woken up.
- 00:10:26.818 --> 00:10:29.987
- So one of our friends was on the dance floor
- 00:10:29.987 --> 00:10:32.023
- When the first rockets were intercepted,
- 00:10:32.023 --> 00:10:33.624
- And she knew that we were sleeping,
- 00:10:33.624 --> 00:10:35.426
- And she wants to come wake us up
- 00:10:35.426 --> 00:10:36.627
- And make sure we were alert to the situation.
- 00:10:36.627 --> 00:10:39.163
- So she came and she was smiling, and she kind of nudged us away
- 00:10:39.163 --> 00:10:42.266
- Because she's like, good morning, guys.
- 00:10:42.266 --> 00:10:44.135
- I just wanted you to know a few rockets were intercepted
- 00:10:44.135 --> 00:10:46.938
- Overhead, but it's fine.
- 00:10:46.938 --> 00:10:48.673
- It's normal for the area that we're in.
- 00:10:48.673 --> 00:10:50.274
- And, you know, it's the holidays.
- 00:10:50.274 --> 00:10:51.342
- They like to do this on the holidays.
- 00:10:51.342 --> 00:10:53.244
- I'm sure it's just going to be a few.
- 00:10:53.244 --> 00:10:54.746
- It'll pass and the party will continue.
- 00:10:54.746 --> 00:10:56.347
- So like, nothing to worry about.
- 00:10:56.347 --> 00:10:57.815
- Just wanted you guys to be awake.
- 00:10:57.815 --> 00:11:00.051
- And i tried to tell people, you know,
- 00:11:00.051 --> 00:11:02.019
- Imagine a festival happening in california, imagine coachella
- 00:11:02.019 --> 00:11:05.723
- Festival and imagine people are dancing and suddenly
- 00:11:05.723 --> 00:11:08.559
- Rockets are intercepted over their heads.
- 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:11.829
- There's no way that they would react in such a calm manner.
- 00:11:11.829 --> 00:11:14.932
- But for israelis, unfortunately, this is their reality.
- 00:11:14.932 --> 00:11:17.635
- This is something they deal with on a semi-regular basis.
- 00:11:17.635 --> 00:11:21.506
- But i started counting the rockets, and eventually
- 00:11:21.506 --> 00:11:24.475
- We start to realize
- 00:11:24.475 --> 00:11:25.443
- This is a way more serious situation
- 00:11:25.443 --> 00:11:27.712
- Than what we originally thought.
- 00:11:27.712 --> 00:11:29.714
- The security tells us to evacuate.
- 00:11:30.481 --> 00:11:32.150
- We start heading to our cars.
- 00:11:32.150 --> 00:11:34.485
- After a few minutes of trying to drive out,
- 00:11:34.485 --> 00:11:36.454
- It's thousands of people trying to drive at the same time.
- 00:11:36.454 --> 00:11:39.290
- We're driving very slowly,
- 00:11:39.290 --> 00:11:40.458
- And security starts yelling at us
- 00:11:40.458 --> 00:11:41.826
- To get out of our cars and start running.
- 00:11:41.826 --> 00:11:44.395
- And we couldn't understand why
- 00:11:44.395 --> 00:11:45.363
- They would tell us to run from rockets.
- 00:11:45.363 --> 00:11:46.798
- But we figured, you know, we should listen to them.
- 00:11:46.798 --> 00:11:48.366
- So we pull our car over.
- 00:11:48.366 --> 00:11:50.268
- And right after we pull our car over,
- 00:11:50.268 --> 00:11:52.770
- That's when we hear the first gunshots.
- 00:11:52.770 --> 00:11:54.939
- And from there, we ran for about four hours
- 00:11:54.939 --> 00:11:58.409
- Running from hamas terrorists running from gunshots.
- 00:11:58.409 --> 00:12:02.647
- And one of the main questions i got asked was how i knew
- 00:12:02.647 --> 00:12:06.117
- What direction to run to.
- 00:12:06.117 --> 00:12:07.251
- How i knew what decisions to make to save my life.
- 00:12:07.251 --> 00:12:09.387
- And the answer is that nobody knew.
- 00:12:09.387 --> 00:12:11.656
- And,
- 00:12:11.656 --> 00:12:14.058
- There's
- 00:12:14.292 --> 00:12:15.193
- A phrase that holocaust survivors coined
- 00:12:15.193 --> 00:12:17.662
- When it came to life and death situations
- 00:12:17.662 --> 00:12:19.497
- And how they knew what decisions to make. and it's,
- 00:12:19.497 --> 00:12:22.166
- They coined the phrase called the choiceless choice.
- 00:12:22.166 --> 00:12:24.602
- And basically,
- 00:12:24.602 --> 00:12:25.770
- The meaning is that in these life and death situations,
- 00:12:25.770 --> 00:12:27.738
- You don't have much time to try to assess
- 00:12:27.738 --> 00:12:29.674
- What decisions
- 00:12:29.674 --> 00:12:30.508
- Are going to be the better decision,
- 00:12:30.508 --> 00:12:31.742
- Which one will save your life as opposed to getting you killed.
- 00:12:31.742 --> 00:12:34.445
- But you have to make a decision in that moment.
- 00:12:34.445 --> 00:12:36.647
- And all the decisions we made while running for the hamas
- 00:12:36.647 --> 00:12:39.217
- Terrorists were choiceless choices.
- 00:12:39.217 --> 00:12:41.219
- And i'll just end with an example of the main
- 00:12:41.219 --> 00:12:44.121
- Choiceless choice that will always stick with me.
- 00:12:44.121 --> 00:12:47.024
- About three hours into running, we passed by a group of friends
- 00:12:47.024 --> 00:12:50.428
- That were hiding in a ditch,
- 00:12:50.428 --> 00:12:52.463
- And they called us over
- 00:12:52.463 --> 00:12:53.831
- And they told us to come hide with them
- 00:12:53.831 --> 00:12:55.166
- And we start crawling into this ditch.
- 00:12:55.166 --> 00:12:56.500
- And there's maybe
- 00:12:56.500 --> 00:12:57.468
- Ten of them in this giant ditch in the ground.
- 00:12:57.468 --> 00:13:00.705
- And one of the three friends i came with, he was standing on
- 00:13:00.705 --> 00:13:03.608
- Top of the ditch, crawling with us.
- 00:13:03.608 --> 00:13:05.610
- And he looks down at all of us in this ditch,
- 00:13:05.610 --> 00:13:07.845
- Laying in this stitch, and he starts freaking out.
- 00:13:07.845 --> 00:13:10.047
- He starts yelling at us
- 00:13:10.047 --> 00:13:11.482
- That this is a horrible idea,
- 00:13:11.482 --> 00:13:12.817
- And that if the hamas terrorist find us, we're sitting ducks.
- 00:13:12.817 --> 00:13:15.386
- They're going to come from above us and kill us all.
- 00:13:15.386 --> 00:13:17.922
- And he said our only option
- 00:13:17.922 --> 00:13:19.123
- For survival is to continue running.
- 00:13:19.123 --> 00:13:21.559
- So we got out. we continued to run.
- 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:23.995
- And unfortunately
- 00:13:24.428 --> 00:13:26.597
- For the 10 or 15 friends that we left behind
- 00:13:26.597 --> 00:13:28.699
- In that ditch,
- 00:13:28.699 --> 00:13:29.400
- We found out a day or two later
- 00:13:29.400 --> 00:13:31.269
- That none of them had made it out alive.
- 00:13:31.269 --> 00:13:33.738
- And that's just one of the many examples of choices, choices
- 00:13:33.738 --> 00:13:36.274
- We made, whether it was turning left or right,
- 00:13:36.274 --> 00:13:38.676
- Whether it was choosing to hide or continue to run.
- 00:13:38.676 --> 00:13:41.712
- And i consider myself very lucky to be here
- 00:13:41.712 --> 00:13:45.349
- And to be able to speak to you, but i'm speaking out on behalf
- 00:13:45.349 --> 00:13:49.420
- Not just of my story, but i'm speaking
- 00:13:49.420 --> 00:13:51.155
- On behalf of all of those who didn't make it
- 00:13:51.155 --> 00:13:52.723
- And all those who no longer have a voice.
- 00:13:52.723 --> 00:13:54.258
- So i want to say thank you
- 00:13:54.258 --> 00:13:55.826
- For having me, allowing me to speak on their behalf.
- 00:13:55.826 --> 00:13:59.463
- Well, we're honored to have you.
- 00:13:59.463 --> 00:14:00.564
- I have many friends, or i have had many friends
- 00:14:00.564 --> 00:14:03.267
- Who were holocaust survivors,
- 00:14:03.267 --> 00:14:05.403
- And their voices have been so important to help
- 00:14:05.403 --> 00:14:08.906
- With a number of decisions from that day until this.
- 00:14:08.906 --> 00:14:11.475
- And your voice is important.
- 00:14:11.475 --> 00:14:13.644
- We can't afford to forget.
- 00:14:13.644 --> 00:14:15.212
- And i thank you for your courage.
- 00:14:15.212 --> 00:14:16.480
- Because i know this isn't easy. thank you.
- 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:18.549
- But it really leads me to my next question.
- 00:14:18.549 --> 00:14:20.651
- It's been reported that hamas influence
- 00:14:20.651 --> 00:14:22.853
- Has been building in the us for a long time,
- 00:14:22.853 --> 00:14:26.657
- And it's out of the public eye for the most part.
- 00:14:26.657 --> 00:14:28.559
- Americans aren't aware we don't live
- 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:30.127
- With the awareness of rockets,
- 00:14:30.127 --> 00:14:32.096
- But that it surfaced when these organized campus
- 00:14:32.096 --> 00:14:34.298
- Groups and others began appearing
- 00:14:34.298 --> 00:14:35.733
- So quickly all over our country following that october attack.
- 00:14:35.733 --> 00:14:39.603
- Well, the fbi
- 00:14:39.603 --> 00:14:40.604
- Director, christopher wray, has spoken openly
- 00:14:40.604 --> 00:14:43.441
- About the potential for real trouble,
- 00:14:43.441 --> 00:14:45.409
- Not in israel now, but in the united states.
- 00:14:45.409 --> 00:14:48.779
- There was already a heightened risk of violence
- 00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:51.415
- In the united states before october 7th.
- 00:14:51.415 --> 00:14:54.819
- Since then, we've seen a rogue's
- 00:14:54.819 --> 00:14:57.922
- Gallery of foreign terrorist organizations call for attacks
- 00:14:57.922 --> 00:15:02.059
- Against americans and our allies.
- 00:15:02.059 --> 00:15:05.429
- And given those calls for action,
- 00:15:05.429 --> 00:15:08.632
- Our most immediate concern has been that individuals
- 00:15:08.632 --> 00:15:12.003
- Or small groups will draw some kind of twisted inspiration
- 00:15:12.003 --> 00:15:15.539
- From the events in the middle east.
- 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:17.875
- Or the reports show that this campus chaos
- 00:15:18.743 --> 00:15:21.045
- Was created by a group called american muslims for palestine,
- 00:15:21.045 --> 00:15:24.815
- Incubated, funded
- 00:15:25.249 --> 00:15:26.484
- And directed by the students for justice in palestine. e.j.
- 00:15:26.484 --> 00:15:29.987
- What more can you tell us about that?
- 00:15:29.987 --> 00:15:32.023
- Is it a real threat here? it is a real threat here.
- 00:15:32.023 --> 00:15:34.792
- And the american muslims for palestine is
- 00:15:34.792 --> 00:15:39.130
- Is actually currently, being sued in virginia
- 00:15:39.130 --> 00:15:43.434
- Specifically because of their connection
- 00:15:43.434 --> 00:15:46.003
- To previous organizations that were documented
- 00:15:46.003 --> 00:15:49.373
- To be part of the hamas support network in the united states.
- 00:15:49.373 --> 00:15:53.010
- And we're talking about groups in the united states in the 90s
- 00:15:53.010 --> 00:15:56.580
- And in the 80s.
- 00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:58.315
- And this movement really started in the united states.
- 00:15:58.315 --> 00:16:01.719
- You could even go back into the early 1960s
- 00:16:01.719 --> 00:16:04.722
- When the muslim brotherhood group, which started in egypt,
- 00:16:04.722 --> 00:16:07.858
- Came to the united states and,
- 00:16:07.858 --> 00:16:11.328
- You know, the the hamas organization
- 00:16:11.328 --> 00:16:14.465
- Is considered the muslim brotherhood group in palestine.
- 00:16:14.465 --> 00:16:18.135
- That's so they are part of this muslim brotherhood movement.
- 00:16:18.135 --> 00:16:21.839
- So this is something
- 00:16:21.839 --> 00:16:22.973
- That's been happening in the united states for years.
- 00:16:22.973 --> 00:16:26.610
- There have been ebbs and flows with the influence of it,
- 00:16:26.610 --> 00:16:29.580
- But this is 100% part of that support network.
- 00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:33.584
- And we're seeing not just what's happening today,
- 00:16:33.584 --> 00:16:37.254
- But we're seeing the years
- 00:16:37.254 --> 00:16:39.256
- Of of activity that's led to what we're seeing today.
- 00:16:39.256 --> 00:16:43.994
- Natalie, there's a quote i want to ask you about.
- 00:16:44.962 --> 00:16:47.498
- When i read it, it really touched my heart.
- 00:16:47.498 --> 00:16:49.333
- You said that
- 00:16:49.333 --> 00:16:50.434
- Your mother taught you that holding a grudge and hating
- 00:16:50.434 --> 00:16:52.903
- Someone is like drinking poison,
- 00:16:52.903 --> 00:16:54.605
- And then expecting the other person to get hurt.
- 00:16:54.605 --> 00:16:57.541
- Well, hamas and hezbollah need to be stopped.
- 00:16:57.541 --> 00:17:00.244
- Hating the whole group of people
- 00:17:00.244 --> 00:17:01.479
- Isn't going to solve the problem.
- 00:17:01.479 --> 00:17:03.514
- Can you tell us what you're doing?
- 00:17:03.514 --> 00:17:05.549
- Explain that quote and how you're living that out.
- 00:17:05.549 --> 00:17:09.286
- So as i said before, i feel very fortunate
- 00:17:09.286 --> 00:17:11.989
- That since the attacks, i've had the opportunity
- 00:17:11.989 --> 00:17:14.925
- To start working for the combat anti-semitism movement
- 00:17:14.925 --> 00:17:17.928
- And take something horrible that happened to me
- 00:17:17.928 --> 00:17:20.364
- And try to turn it into something good.
- 00:17:20.364 --> 00:17:21.799
- And doing that good is building bridges and building
- 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:25.769
- Bridges between our community and the muslim community.
- 00:17:25.769 --> 00:17:28.606
- Because going in and hating
- 00:17:28.606 --> 00:17:31.909
- It's not going to fix what happened.
- 00:17:31.909 --> 00:17:33.244
- It's not going to change what happened.
- 00:17:33.244 --> 00:17:34.478
- You can't change the past.
- 00:17:34.478 --> 00:17:35.946
- You can only change the future.
- 00:17:35.946 --> 00:17:37.715
- And that's my goal is, to change the future.
- 00:17:37.715 --> 00:17:40.184
- And, i, i really have my mom to thank for that,
- 00:17:40.184 --> 00:17:44.188
- For that type of point of view that she's given me,
- 00:17:44.188 --> 00:17:46.490
- That i've been able to carry with me and,
- 00:17:46.490 --> 00:17:49.960
- Go on through my life,
- 00:17:50.427 --> 00:17:51.662
- You know, not hating because it's it's easy to hate.
- 00:17:51.662 --> 00:17:55.633
- You can easily hate someone
- 00:17:55.633 --> 00:17:56.834
- That did something like that to you.
- 00:17:56.834 --> 00:17:57.935
- But you have to understand that a whole group of people
- 00:17:57.935 --> 00:18:00.938
- Is not hamas.
- 00:18:00.938 --> 00:18:02.406
- They're not all hamas.
- 00:18:02.406 --> 00:18:03.307
- They don't have the same ideologies.
- 00:18:03.307 --> 00:18:05.543
- And even when it comes to the the people of gaza,
- 00:18:05.543 --> 00:18:09.713
- I don't hate all of them.
- 00:18:09.713 --> 00:18:10.781
- I don't blame all of them.
- 00:18:10.781 --> 00:18:12.383
- I try to put myself in their shoes.
- 00:18:12.383 --> 00:18:13.784
- I try to imagine
- 00:18:13.784 --> 00:18:15.619
- If i was born into that culture, into that society.
- 00:18:15.619 --> 00:18:18.489
- If i was brainwashed
- 00:18:18.489 --> 00:18:19.523
- From such a young age, would i think differently?
- 00:18:19.523 --> 00:18:23.260
- Would i break out of it or would i follow suit?
- 00:18:23.260 --> 00:18:26.130
- And the answer is you. you can't know.
- 00:18:26.130 --> 00:18:30.134
- Well,
- 00:18:30.367 --> 00:18:31.569
- I appreciate your courage and both of you for your voice.
- 00:18:31.569 --> 00:18:33.537
- It's important that only remember
- 00:18:33.537 --> 00:18:34.672
- What our friends in israel.
- 00:18:34.672 --> 00:18:35.539
- But remember what we have to do
- 00:18:35.539 --> 00:18:37.274
- In the united states to keep us all safe.
- 00:18:37.274 --> 00:18:39.910
- Thank you both for joining us today.
- 00:18:39.910 --> 00:18:41.512
- We want to stay in touch in the years ahead.
- 00:18:41.512 --> 00:18:44.248
- And in a moment, i'm going to share some of my own thoughts.
- 00:18:44.248 --> 00:18:52.000
- And in a moment, i'm going to share some of my own thoughts.
- 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:53.722
- In the book of romans, chapter 12, we're given some life advice
- 00:18:54.890 --> 00:18:58.393
- Not to be overcome by evil, but to overcome evil with good.
- 00:18:58.393 --> 00:19:02.397
- When we hear a story as horrific as what happened
- 00:19:02.397 --> 00:19:04.800
- In israel on october the 7th,
- 00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:06.635
- I think it's easier to be focused on the evil.
- 00:19:06.635 --> 00:19:09.071
- But i want to bring you back to the assignment that we have
- 00:19:09.071 --> 00:19:11.640
- To overcome evil with the good in us.
- 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.643
- In that way, we can pray for the peace
- 00:19:14.643 --> 00:19:16.278
- Of jerusalem, stand with our friends in israel.
- 00:19:16.278 --> 00:19:18.947
- We don't want to deny that evil exist.
- 00:19:18.947 --> 00:19:21.216
- We just have to be determined
- 00:19:21.216 --> 00:19:22.384
- Not to let hatred grow in our heart.
- 00:19:22.384 --> 00:19:24.453
- That we can't respond to evil with more evil.
- 00:19:24.453 --> 00:19:26.521
- That we have to realize that there is good
- 00:19:26.521 --> 00:19:28.724
- Goodness comes from god and the people of faith.
- 00:19:28.724 --> 00:19:31.293
- We can overcome that evil by expressing god's goodness
- 00:19:31.293 --> 00:19:34.896
- In our world.
- 00:19:34.896 --> 00:19:36.031
- With that, i assure you there's more reasons for hope
- 00:19:36.031 --> 00:19:38.934
- Than despair.
- 00:19:38.934 --> 00:19:40.569
- I'll be back in just a moment.
- 00:19:40.569 --> 00:19:47.005
- I'll be back in just a moment.
- 00:19:47.005 --> 00:19:49.353
- Thank
- 00:19:49.587 --> 00:19:50.755
- You for joining us tonight for this most important story.
- 00:19:50.755 --> 00:19:52.990
- We didn't have a chance to read your emails,
- 00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:55.126
- But please remember, if you haven't yet,
- 00:19:55.126 --> 00:19:57.028
- Take a moment to send us your thoughts.
- 00:19:57.028 --> 00:19:58.963
- You can do that at comments at alan jackson now.com.
- 00:19:58.963 --> 00:20:02.300
- Your feedback and questions.
- 00:20:02.300 --> 00:20:03.834
- They do a lot to shape our show.
- 00:20:03.834 --> 00:20:05.636
- I'm alan jackson. you have a wonderful evening.
- 00:20:05.636 --> 00:20:05.636