Pastor Ben Graham and host Alan Jackson delve into the troubling issue of the state attempting to restrict religious liberty. Fueled by Pastor Graham's experiences in Washington and his book, "Ignorance and Apathy: Two of America's Deadliest Sins," the conversation explores the role of faith in politics, the challenges of apathy and ignorance, and the urgent need for a revival in the younger generation.
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Allen Jackson NOW | Allen Jackson: Religious Liberty in America | Allen Jackson Now | May 12, 2025
- Well.
- 00:00:05.230 --> 00:00:05.664
- Good evening.
- 00:00:05.664 --> 00:00:06.665
- I'm alan jackson, and welcome to nashville.
- 00:00:06.665 --> 00:00:08.834
- How many times do we hear people say about how hard it is
- 00:00:08.834 --> 00:00:11.603
- To keep up with so much going on each week?
- 00:00:11.603 --> 00:00:14.739
- I comes out of nowhere.
- 00:00:14.739 --> 00:00:16.374
- How does that work? and will it help or hurt me?
- 00:00:16.374 --> 00:00:19.211
- The weather seems more unpredictable,
- 00:00:19.211 --> 00:00:20.846
- But are the news stations just trying to make it seem
- 00:00:20.846 --> 00:00:22.981
- Worse to attract more viewers or push some other agenda?
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- That was just that.
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- Boys are still competing in girls sports.
- 00:00:27.919 --> 00:00:29.921
- Did the president say that's not allowed?
- 00:00:29.921 --> 00:00:32.724
- There are lots of ads for electric cars,
- 00:00:32.724 --> 00:00:34.926
- But are they really better for the environment?
- 00:00:34.926 --> 00:00:37.596
- Maybe not.
- 00:00:37.596 --> 00:00:38.597
- Well, it's all confusing
- 00:00:38.597 --> 00:00:39.998
- And can be a real struggle for anyone,
- 00:00:39.998 --> 00:00:42.367
- But it comes on top of an even more disturbing question.
- 00:00:42.367 --> 00:00:45.137
- We're facing a question best expressed by this statement
- 00:00:45.137 --> 00:00:48.607
- From constitutional attorney william ball.
- 00:00:48.607 --> 00:00:51.476
- He once said that
- 00:00:51.476 --> 00:00:52.644
- The constitution was aimed at the restraint of the state.
- 00:00:52.644 --> 00:00:56.214
- Well, today, in case after case relating to religious liberty,
- 00:00:56.214 --> 00:00:59.651
- We encounter the bizarre presumption
- 00:00:59.651 --> 00:01:01.553
- That it's the other way around.
- 00:01:01.553 --> 00:01:02.954
- Well, that's what we're going to discuss tonight
- 00:01:03.922 --> 00:01:05.657
- With our special guest, doctor
- 00:01:05.657 --> 00:01:07.159
- Ben graham, pastor, host of real talk podcast.
- 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:11.029
- And now the author of this important new book,
- 00:01:11.029 --> 00:01:13.632
- Ignorance and apathy two of america's deadliest sins.
- 00:01:13.632 --> 00:01:18.470
- Welcome to nashville, pastor.
- 00:01:18.470 --> 00:01:19.938
- Thank you so much. glad to. be here.
- 00:01:19.938 --> 00:01:21.506
- Well, we're glad to have you here.
- 00:01:21.506 --> 00:01:23.575
- Let's get right into this.
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- The quote i read was from your new book,
- 00:01:24.743 --> 00:01:26.878
- And it should be a wake up call for everybody listening.
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- Tell us
- 00:01:30.081 --> 00:01:30.749
- What made you want to raise
- 00:01:30.749 --> 00:01:31.383
- A yellow flag
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- And let people know that the state is now
- 00:01:32.284 --> 00:01:34.052
- Trying to restrain religious liberty?
- 00:01:34.052 --> 00:01:36.655
- You know, it's been a, really an argument
- 00:01:36.655 --> 00:01:39.124
- For the last 50 or 60 years, the attack of of pastors
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- Engaging and christians engaging in the culture.
- 00:01:42.661 --> 00:01:45.964
- And, unfortunately, churches
- 00:01:45.964 --> 00:01:47.899
- And pastors have kind of bowed down
- 00:01:47.899 --> 00:01:50.068
- And we we've become silent and, we've listened to it.
- 00:01:50.068 --> 00:01:53.271
- And so many people misunderstand.
- 00:01:53.271 --> 00:01:55.307
- You know, when the danbury baptist wrote to jefferson,
- 00:01:55.307 --> 00:01:58.476
- Their concern was that there was four churches meeting
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- In the united states capitol.
- 00:02:01.413 --> 00:02:02.981
- They were having worship services on a regular basis.
- 00:02:02.981 --> 00:02:05.784
- And their concern was,
- 00:02:05.784 --> 00:02:06.918
- Are you trying to create a state religion?
- 00:02:06.918 --> 00:02:08.653
- And jefferson wrote, no, we're not trying to do that.
- 00:02:08.653 --> 00:02:10.989
- He understood
- 00:02:10.989 --> 00:02:12.257
- This is why people came to america to to leave england
- 00:02:12.257 --> 00:02:15.627
- Where there was a state church, a state religion.
- 00:02:15.627 --> 00:02:18.296
- He said, we're not going to infringe upon the church.
- 00:02:18.296 --> 00:02:20.232
- But he never wrote anything about the church
- 00:02:20.232 --> 00:02:22.434
- Infringing or in being involved in government.
- 00:02:22.434 --> 00:02:24.869
- And somewhere this lie of separation of church
- 00:02:24.869 --> 00:02:27.372
- And state came in in a you know, this
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- And i love that you're a preacher
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- That's willing to engage
- 00:02:31.009 --> 00:02:32.711
- In, in culture, but really you're just
- 00:02:32.711 --> 00:02:34.879
- You're preaching the word of god.
- 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:36.081
- You know, it's preachers.
- 00:02:36.081 --> 00:02:37.015
- We're told to preach the entire council.
- 00:02:37.015 --> 00:02:39.651
- Genesis 112, revelations 2221.
- 00:02:39.651 --> 00:02:42.387
- So if we do that, we're going to hit issues
- 00:02:42.387 --> 00:02:44.456
- That most people today would call them social issues,
- 00:02:44.456 --> 00:02:47.359
- But they're really biblical issues.
- 00:02:47.359 --> 00:02:49.127
- And so looking at what was going on, i just
- 00:02:49.127 --> 00:02:51.529
- I felt like, you know, people are either ignorant to the truth
- 00:02:51.529 --> 00:02:55.033
- Or they're apathetic. they just don't care.
- 00:02:55.033 --> 00:02:56.968
- And a lot of people tell me this all the time.
- 00:02:56.968 --> 00:02:58.670
- Will, preacher, you know, the lord's coming back.
- 00:02:58.670 --> 00:03:00.839
- So what does it really matter at this point?
- 00:03:00.839 --> 00:03:02.540
- He said, in the last days, you know, there's
- 00:03:02.540 --> 00:03:04.009
- Going to be bad times, perilous times.
- 00:03:04.009 --> 00:03:06.077
- You know, what does it matter?
- 00:03:06.077 --> 00:03:07.178
- And the reality is, he tells us we're to be engaging
- 00:03:07.178 --> 00:03:10.348
- In preaching the truth until he comes.
- 00:03:10.348 --> 00:03:12.851
- And so we can't stop.
- 00:03:12.851 --> 00:03:14.052
- And so i think, you know, for us, it's a wake up moment.
- 00:03:14.052 --> 00:03:18.556
- And honestly, if the election hadn't gone the way it had,
- 00:03:18.556 --> 00:03:22.093
- Who knows where we'd be?
- 00:03:22.093 --> 00:03:23.128
- And i know you're a preacher like me
- 00:03:23.128 --> 00:03:24.529
- That was going to keep preaching the truth no matter what.
- 00:03:24.529 --> 00:03:26.931
- But i feel like we've been given another opportunity.
- 00:03:26.931 --> 00:03:29.200
- And so people need to wake up.
- 00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:31.636
- They they need to know what's going on.
- 00:03:31.636 --> 00:03:33.672
- They need to engage
- 00:03:33.672 --> 00:03:34.739
- So that we can make smart decisions
- 00:03:34.739 --> 00:03:36.574
- For our children and our grandchildren
- 00:03:36.574 --> 00:03:38.543
- To be able to enjoy the country that we've so enjoyed.
- 00:03:38.543 --> 00:03:41.212
- I agree.
- 00:03:41.212 --> 00:03:42.247
- During the first term of president trump,
- 00:03:42.247 --> 00:03:43.815
- You were invited to become part
- 00:03:43.815 --> 00:03:45.016
- Of the white house faith and opportunity team.
- 00:03:45.016 --> 00:03:47.452
- And i know you led a number of pastoral groups
- 00:03:47.452 --> 00:03:49.220
- To the white house for briefings
- 00:03:49.220 --> 00:03:50.588
- With administration officials and staff.
- 00:03:50.588 --> 00:03:53.325
- You believe that
- 00:03:53.325 --> 00:03:54.092
- With this new team in washington,
- 00:03:54.092 --> 00:03:55.493
- That this sort of state takeover may get pushed back a bit
- 00:03:55.493 --> 00:03:58.863
- And we'll get a new season of freedom.
- 00:03:58.863 --> 00:04:00.532
- You know, that's the prayer.
- 00:04:01.132 --> 00:04:02.600
- It was amazing.
- 00:04:02.600 --> 00:04:03.535
- I was down in el salvador
- 00:04:03.535 --> 00:04:05.070
- With a group of hispanic pastors who pastored in dc.
- 00:04:05.070 --> 00:04:08.807
- I asked them, have you ever been the white house?
- 00:04:08.807 --> 00:04:10.108
- They said no.
- 00:04:10.108 --> 00:04:11.109
- I asked, what do you think about trump?
- 00:04:11.109 --> 00:04:12.243
- Well, we don't know.
- 00:04:12.243 --> 00:04:13.211
- And they had just heard what the media said.
- 00:04:13.211 --> 00:04:15.680
- I said, if i could get you the white house, would you go?
- 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:17.549
- They said, absolutely.
- 00:04:17.549 --> 00:04:19.084
- 80 pastors, hispanic pastors from the d.c.
- 00:04:19.084 --> 00:04:21.486
- Area, some of them pastoring large churches, came.
- 00:04:21.486 --> 00:04:25.323
- They saw what the faith team
- 00:04:25.323 --> 00:04:26.725
- Was doing, and most
- 00:04:26.725 --> 00:04:27.792
- Every one of them was in tears and crying.
- 00:04:27.792 --> 00:04:29.361
- We worship, we sang,
- 00:04:29.361 --> 00:04:31.129
- We praise the lord in the in the white house.
- 00:04:31.129 --> 00:04:33.031
- And they were so moved.
- 00:04:33.031 --> 00:04:34.666
- And you know, president trump talks about making america
- 00:04:34.666 --> 00:04:37.402
- Great again. and i think he understands this.
- 00:04:37.402 --> 00:04:39.804
- If we're going to do that, we've got to make god great
- 00:04:39.804 --> 00:04:42.273
- Or important again in our nation.
- 00:04:42.273 --> 00:04:43.608
- We've got to return to god.
- 00:04:43.608 --> 00:04:45.143
- And that is the only hope.
- 00:04:45.143 --> 00:04:46.344
- And so, you know, while we're trying to,
- 00:04:46.344 --> 00:04:49.047
- Fix other departments, while we're trying to get rid of
- 00:04:49.047 --> 00:04:52.584
- Of this globalist movement and trying to fix
- 00:04:52.584 --> 00:04:55.019
- A lot of things that are wrong with a lot of departments,
- 00:04:55.019 --> 00:04:57.455
- Every one of them have a faith director.
- 00:04:57.455 --> 00:04:59.524
- And it's so important these faith directors
- 00:04:59.524 --> 00:05:01.626
- Are in these departments to make sure
- 00:05:01.626 --> 00:05:03.795
- That every one of those departments,
- 00:05:03.795 --> 00:05:05.029
- All the policies coming out of nothing,
- 00:05:05.029 --> 00:05:07.465
- Is going to hinder or hurt the people of faith of our nation.
- 00:05:07.465 --> 00:05:10.935
- What do you think of this new round of lawfare,
- 00:05:11.936 --> 00:05:14.105
- Where local judges are taking on the role
- 00:05:14.105 --> 00:05:16.074
- Of national politicians
- 00:05:16.074 --> 00:05:17.909
- Trying to stop so much of what the president
- 00:05:17.909 --> 00:05:19.611
- Is doing to try to fix things that voters want him to do,
- 00:05:19.611 --> 00:05:22.981
- Doesn't seem right to me.
- 00:05:22.981 --> 00:05:24.916
- You know, it's amazing.
- 00:05:24.916 --> 00:05:26.184
- But so many people forget the constitution.
- 00:05:26.184 --> 00:05:28.987
- They forget the order.
- 00:05:28.987 --> 00:05:29.754
- And unfortunately,
- 00:05:29.754 --> 00:05:30.388
- Now we have judges that are
- 00:05:30.388 --> 00:05:32.056
- Starting to take matters in their own hands.
- 00:05:32.056 --> 00:05:34.225
- Things that, never happened before.
- 00:05:34.225 --> 00:05:36.828
- And i would just say, while i don't like what's going
- 00:05:36.828 --> 00:05:39.931
- On, i also am encouraged because this tells us
- 00:05:39.931 --> 00:05:42.934
- They're on their last leg.
- 00:05:42.934 --> 00:05:44.335
- Everything else has failed.
- 00:05:44.335 --> 00:05:45.670
- And so now they're trying to get these judges to step in.
- 00:05:45.670 --> 00:05:49.107
- But i think that too is ultimately going to fail,
- 00:05:49.107 --> 00:05:51.342
- Because all these things keep going to the supreme court.
- 00:05:51.342 --> 00:05:54.212
- And we're seeing,
- 00:05:54.212 --> 00:05:56.581
- A ruling after ruling come in favor of the constitution,
- 00:05:56.581 --> 00:05:59.350
- Which happens to be the side that our current president
- 00:05:59.350 --> 00:06:02.086
- Seems to keep standing on.
- 00:06:02.086 --> 00:06:03.488
- And it's just a victory after victory for him,
- 00:06:03.488 --> 00:06:06.624
- And it's a blessing.
- 00:06:06.624 --> 00:06:07.659
- But i tell people this, this is not the time to,
- 00:06:07.659 --> 00:06:10.528
- You know, fall asleep or relax.
- 00:06:10.528 --> 00:06:12.197
- This is the time to truly engage and invest
- 00:06:12.197 --> 00:06:15.300
- In praying for our nation and then trying to do something
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- To make a difference so that we can maintain this freedom.
- 00:06:17.969 --> 00:06:21.005
- Well, you wrote about the spread of leftist propaganda,
- 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:24.843
- Which is now on full display.
- 00:06:24.843 --> 00:06:26.811
- They've got no leader, so they've decided to fight,
- 00:06:26.811 --> 00:06:29.247
- Sometimes violently, against anything.
- 00:06:29.247 --> 00:06:31.749
- The conservatives are doing.
- 00:06:31.749 --> 00:06:33.418
- President trump's the number one target.
- 00:06:33.418 --> 00:06:35.587
- Violence is common.
- 00:06:35.587 --> 00:06:36.721
- And so was the report
- 00:06:36.721 --> 00:06:37.822
- From a survey of progressives that showed nearly half
- 00:06:37.822 --> 00:06:41.059
- Think that
- 00:06:41.059 --> 00:06:42.293
- An assassination of president trump or elon musk is okay.
- 00:06:42.293 --> 00:06:45.263
- You also quoted a cnn anchor who said, show me where it says
- 00:06:45.263 --> 00:06:48.166
- Protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful.
- 00:06:48.166 --> 00:06:52.070
- This isn't going to go anywhere good, is it?
- 00:06:52.971 --> 00:06:55.673
- You know, they're they're going to keep putting up a fight.
- 00:06:55.673 --> 00:06:58.710
- Unfortunately, you know, we wish that,
- 00:06:59.544 --> 00:07:02.046
- You know, truth would be shown and they would just accept it.
- 00:07:02.046 --> 00:07:04.816
- It's amazing.
- 00:07:04.816 --> 00:07:06.384
- You know, we've got democrat
- 00:07:06.384 --> 00:07:07.986
- Leaders who are fighting for ms13 gang members
- 00:07:07.986 --> 00:07:12.056
- Doing all they can.
- 00:07:12.056 --> 00:07:13.291
- And yet people who've had their children, their loved ones,
- 00:07:13.291 --> 00:07:16.561
- Who were innocent, that were murdered,
- 00:07:16.561 --> 00:07:18.997
- They can't stand for they can't clap when they're,
- 00:07:18.997 --> 00:07:22.166
- Brought to the capitol for the state of the union.
- 00:07:22.166 --> 00:07:24.168
- And so we've got a real mess on our hands.
- 00:07:24.168 --> 00:07:26.604
- But, you know, i'm reminded of scripture
- 00:07:26.604 --> 00:07:28.673
- And it says there's going to be a time
- 00:07:28.673 --> 00:07:30.174
- Where that which is right is is viewed as wrong,
- 00:07:30.174 --> 00:07:32.544
- And that which is wrong is viewed as right.
- 00:07:32.544 --> 00:07:34.312
- That's where we're at.
- 00:07:34.312 --> 00:07:35.046
- And apart from a real revival,
- 00:07:35.046 --> 00:07:37.215
- Our nation's never going to get turned around.
- 00:07:37.215 --> 00:07:39.150
- And so i always tell people,
- 00:07:39.150 --> 00:07:40.718
- Don't discount the spiritual aspect.
- 00:07:40.718 --> 00:07:42.353
- We're in a spiritual warfare,
- 00:07:42.353 --> 00:07:44.188
- And we need to turn this around with, biblical matters.
- 00:07:44.188 --> 00:07:47.759
- Absolutely.
- 00:07:48.092 --> 00:07:49.060
- Well, before we go to break,
- 00:07:49.060 --> 00:07:50.228
- I want to mention that doctor
- 00:07:50.228 --> 00:07:51.362
- Graham is the spokesman for god bless the usa bible,
- 00:07:51.362 --> 00:07:55.366
- Which fits particularly
- 00:07:55.366 --> 00:07:56.534
- Well with our conversation about church and state today.
- 00:07:56.534 --> 00:07:59.604
- You know, later in the show, i'm
- 00:07:59.604 --> 00:08:00.705
- Going to add a few thoughts of my own
- 00:08:00.705 --> 00:08:02.173
- About what scripture says about where the truth is.
- 00:08:02.173 --> 00:08:05.143
- If you want to write us,
- 00:08:05.143 --> 00:08:06.411
- You can just go to aj now.com and you'll find the link there.
- 00:08:06.411 --> 00:08:10.081
- You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter.
- 00:08:10.081 --> 00:08:13.117
- I'll be right back.
- 00:08:13.117 --> 00:08:21.003
- I'll be right back.
- 00:08:21.003 --> 00:08:25.730
- We're
- 00:08:25.964 --> 00:08:26.664
- Back now with pastor ben graham.
- 00:08:26.664 --> 00:08:29.233
- I'd also like to ask you about the liberal judges
- 00:08:29.233 --> 00:08:31.669
- And progressive politicians who are doing everything
- 00:08:31.669 --> 00:08:34.238
- They can to get in the way of deportations
- 00:08:34.238 --> 00:08:36.908
- Of criminals and gang members.
- 00:08:36.908 --> 00:08:38.676
- It calls into question
- 00:08:38.676 --> 00:08:39.744
- The role of judges across the country,
- 00:08:39.744 --> 00:08:41.980
- And why they think it's okay
- 00:08:41.980 --> 00:08:43.181
- To try to execute their own foreign policy.
- 00:08:43.181 --> 00:08:45.950
- Do you have confidence
- 00:08:45.950 --> 00:08:47.051
- That the supreme court will overturn these speed bumps?
- 00:08:47.051 --> 00:08:50.355
- You know, i think that is our our biggest hope right now.
- 00:08:50.355 --> 00:08:54.626
- Obviously, we're praying we know god can can do anything, but,
- 00:08:54.626 --> 00:09:00.164
- We certainly have some judges who i think are overstepping
- 00:09:00.164 --> 00:09:02.433
- Their bounds.
- 00:09:02.433 --> 00:09:03.134
- And, you know, one of the things
- 00:09:03.134 --> 00:09:04.736
- About our current president is, he's a great chess player, and,
- 00:09:04.736 --> 00:09:09.641
- He plays long term games,
- 00:09:09.641 --> 00:09:11.442
- And he's got a lot of things that he's working on.
- 00:09:11.442 --> 00:09:13.244
- But, we've got to pray that these judges will
- 00:09:13.244 --> 00:09:16.114
- Either move out of the way or the supreme court
- 00:09:16.114 --> 00:09:17.915
- Will uphold the constitution so that we can move forward
- 00:09:17.915 --> 00:09:20.952
- With the agenda that the people voted the president in to do.
- 00:09:20.952 --> 00:09:26.224
- Well, the title of your book
- 00:09:26.824 --> 00:09:27.959
- Is ignorance and apathy two of america's deadliest sins.
- 00:09:27.959 --> 00:09:31.796
- Now, while some church attendance is down,
- 00:09:31.796 --> 00:09:34.032
- There's also signs that faith is growing.
- 00:09:34.032 --> 00:09:35.933
- More and more people are looking for truth,
- 00:09:35.933 --> 00:09:38.069
- And they're finding it as they get to know jesus.
- 00:09:38.069 --> 00:09:40.605
- Over the past few years, there have also been
- 00:09:40.605 --> 00:09:42.774
- A lot of reports of revivals on college campuses.
- 00:09:42.774 --> 00:09:45.943
- What are some signs of hope
- 00:09:45.943 --> 00:09:47.211
- That you see from the younger generation?
- 00:09:47.211 --> 00:09:49.213
- You know, i've been so encouraged.
- 00:09:49.213 --> 00:09:50.782
- I, i was in dc a couple weeks ago, and a young man
- 00:09:50.782 --> 00:09:54.285
- That attends, university in chicago
- 00:09:54.285 --> 00:09:56.988
- Came up to me, said,
- 00:09:56.988 --> 00:09:57.922
- You're a pastor right now, said he goes,
- 00:09:57.922 --> 00:09:59.157
- I want to ask you some things about the bible.
- 00:09:59.157 --> 00:10:01.526
- He said, i've got 20 friends at the university,
- 00:10:01.526 --> 00:10:03.761
- And we started reading the bible.
- 00:10:03.761 --> 00:10:05.063
- He said, none of us are christians.
- 00:10:05.063 --> 00:10:06.330
- We don't know much about it,
- 00:10:06.330 --> 00:10:07.765
- But we just are so fascinated with scripture.
- 00:10:07.765 --> 00:10:10.034
- And so i was able to give him the gospel,
- 00:10:10.034 --> 00:10:12.236
- And i was just hearing him talk and his friends and
- 00:10:12.236 --> 00:10:14.439
- And i think there's a real search,
- 00:10:14.439 --> 00:10:16.274
- Especially a young among young men
- 00:10:16.274 --> 00:10:18.943
- Because, you know, men really have been devalued
- 00:10:18.943 --> 00:10:22.346
- In our society.
- 00:10:22.346 --> 00:10:23.548
- And so they're looking for truth.
- 00:10:23.548 --> 00:10:24.682
- What better place to find it than in the word of god?
- 00:10:24.682 --> 00:10:27.285
- And i think that's gravitating them.
- 00:10:27.285 --> 00:10:29.020
- It's giving them some real identity.
- 00:10:29.020 --> 00:10:30.755
- They're finding identity in christ.
- 00:10:30.755 --> 00:10:32.190
- And and for anybody, if you want true identity,
- 00:10:32.190 --> 00:10:34.625
- That's where you find it in the lord.
- 00:10:34.625 --> 00:10:36.661
- He values us no matter who we are or where we come from.
- 00:10:36.661 --> 00:10:39.897
- He gives us hope.
- 00:10:39.897 --> 00:10:40.998
- He helps us overcome our sins and our afflictions.
- 00:10:40.998 --> 00:10:44.102
- And i'm so encouraged by this next generation.
- 00:10:44.102 --> 00:10:46.370
- I really believe the revival
- 00:10:46.370 --> 00:10:48.372
- That we may see a nationwide revival is going to
- 00:10:48.372 --> 00:10:51.109
- Come from the young people.
- 00:10:51.109 --> 00:10:53.010
- Well, you wrote
- 00:10:53.377 --> 00:10:54.345
- Something that's interesting and important
- 00:10:54.345 --> 00:10:56.881
- On a historic look at how late in the history of the u.s.
- 00:10:56.881 --> 00:10:59.917
- Our schools really lost their christianity.
- 00:10:59.917 --> 00:11:03.254
- You found that it was mostly after the 1950s
- 00:11:03.254 --> 00:11:05.690
- That the majority of american students
- 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:07.258
- Began to be taught non-christian ideas
- 00:11:07.258 --> 00:11:09.894
- Such as morality,
- 00:11:09.894 --> 00:11:11.796
- Morality, just relative, or that ethics are situational.
- 00:11:11.796 --> 00:11:15.099
- Tell us what you found
- 00:11:15.099 --> 00:11:16.234
- And how that led to where we are today.
- 00:11:16.234 --> 00:11:18.136
- Yeah.
- 00:11:18.136 --> 00:11:18.636
- So, you know, it's
- 00:11:18.636 --> 00:11:19.837
- That old saying if we just teach the kids right and wrong,
- 00:11:19.837 --> 00:11:23.341
- But we don't tell them who established that.
- 00:11:23.341 --> 00:11:25.943
- You know, that was the thought.
- 00:11:25.943 --> 00:11:27.478
- Well, we don't have to say it's god.
- 00:11:27.478 --> 00:11:29.013
- We just teach them. right?
- 00:11:29.013 --> 00:11:29.714
- Wrong. but ultimately people
- 00:11:29.714 --> 00:11:30.715
- Then question, well, who's an authority?
- 00:11:30.715 --> 00:11:32.984
- And we've come to a place in our society
- 00:11:32.984 --> 00:11:34.819
- Where there's no absolutes. according to most people.
- 00:11:34.819 --> 00:11:37.355
- Most professors teach that, most teachers teach that.
- 00:11:37.355 --> 00:11:40.625
- And yet we know there is absolutes.
- 00:11:40.625 --> 00:11:42.360
- We find that in god's word, god's instructed us and given us
- 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:45.696
- The ten commandments
- 00:11:45.696 --> 00:11:46.764
- And many other commandments that were to follow.
- 00:11:46.764 --> 00:11:49.000
- And if we don't follow that structure, we find it
- 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:51.369
- Leads to destruction.
- 00:11:51.369 --> 00:11:52.436
- And so it's it's important that our young people
- 00:11:52.436 --> 00:11:55.506
- And everybody knows there are absolutes.
- 00:11:55.506 --> 00:11:57.408
- It's found in god's word.
- 00:11:57.408 --> 00:11:58.976
- And so we've seen the schools
- 00:11:58.976 --> 00:12:00.278
- Kicking out the absolutes, kicking that out.
- 00:12:00.278 --> 00:12:02.079
- And, you know, they moved removed prayer.
- 00:12:02.079 --> 00:12:03.614
- They removed, you know, the pledge.
- 00:12:03.614 --> 00:12:05.616
- They removed all these things
- 00:12:05.616 --> 00:12:07.318
- That gave structure, that really gave young people
- 00:12:07.318 --> 00:12:10.454
- An understanding that these come from god.
- 00:12:10.454 --> 00:12:12.990
- And as a result of that, we now have the mess we have today.
- 00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:15.560
- And so we must put god back
- 00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:17.628
- Into everything that we're doing and let him be that authority,
- 00:12:17.628 --> 00:12:21.566
- Or there really isn't anybody that has the authority to say
- 00:12:21.566 --> 00:12:24.302
- What is right and wrong.
- 00:12:24.302 --> 00:12:26.337
- You know, people seem to be
- 00:12:26.938 --> 00:12:27.839
- Increasingly stuck on their phones,
- 00:12:27.839 --> 00:12:29.774
- Whether it's instagram or tiktok.
- 00:12:29.774 --> 00:12:31.843
- They share every move they make with their friends.
- 00:12:31.843 --> 00:12:34.312
- Is there any way to turn that phone addiction
- 00:12:34.312 --> 00:12:36.447
- And other distractions into something
- 00:12:36.447 --> 00:12:38.015
- A bit more positive, involving faith and doing some good?
- 00:12:38.015 --> 00:12:42.086
- Well, i always think about when we get to heaven one day
- 00:12:42.086 --> 00:12:44.055
- And, you know, we try to explain as we hear maybe daniel
- 00:12:44.055 --> 00:12:47.024
- Tell a story or david tell his story.
- 00:12:47.024 --> 00:12:49.293
- You know, they say, what's your story?
- 00:12:49.293 --> 00:12:50.595
- And you're like, well, i couldn't share the gospel
- 00:12:50.595 --> 00:12:52.363
- Because, you know, social media was brutal.
- 00:12:52.363 --> 00:12:53.865
- You know, it's like we're without excuse.
- 00:12:53.865 --> 00:12:56.334
- We have the greatest opportunity to get the gospel
- 00:12:56.334 --> 00:12:58.870
- Around the world in just a moment,
- 00:12:58.870 --> 00:13:00.404
- The truth and the bible says, to
- 00:13:00.404 --> 00:13:02.039
- Whom much is given, much is required.
- 00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:03.841
- And so,
- 00:13:03.841 --> 00:13:05.042
- You know, i believe in 2025, as christians, as believers,
- 00:13:05.042 --> 00:13:08.012
- We have more required of us
- 00:13:08.012 --> 00:13:09.714
- Than any other
- 00:13:09.714 --> 00:13:11.215
- Generation of christians
- 00:13:11.215 --> 00:13:12.283
- Because of the tools that we have at hand.
- 00:13:12.283 --> 00:13:14.652
- And the sad truth is,
- 00:13:14.652 --> 00:13:15.586
- We spend our time on our phones playing games.
- 00:13:15.586 --> 00:13:17.622
- We spend our time watching videos,
- 00:13:17.622 --> 00:13:19.223
- And yet very often we spend little time sharing truth.
- 00:13:19.223 --> 00:13:22.593
- And so
- 00:13:22.593 --> 00:13:23.561
- I challenge people in that, you know, maybe
- 00:13:23.561 --> 00:13:25.630
- Instead of posting
- 00:13:25.630 --> 00:13:26.530
- About the meal you ate,
- 00:13:26.530 --> 00:13:28.065
- Maybe post about the lord or
- 00:13:28.065 --> 00:13:29.467
- If you're going to post about, at least
- 00:13:29.467 --> 00:13:31.002
- Share a little bit about the lord in that,
- 00:13:31.002 --> 00:13:32.770
- Find a way to bring god into the conversation in a real way.
- 00:13:32.770 --> 00:13:36.240
- Because, when we when we're relatable to other people,
- 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:39.810
- And people
- 00:13:40.111 --> 00:13:40.811
- See what god's done in our life,
- 00:13:40.811 --> 00:13:41.879
- They realize maybe god can do that in their life,
- 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:44.348
- And they'll want to know a little more about him.
- 00:13:44.348 --> 00:13:46.117
- Well, you have a clever story on your back.
- 00:13:46.984 --> 00:13:48.719
- Cover goes a bit like this.
- 00:13:48.719 --> 00:13:50.655
- When a gentleman was asked
- 00:13:50.655 --> 00:13:51.956
- What he thought about apathy and ignorance,
- 00:13:51.956 --> 00:13:54.392
- He simply said, i don't know and i don't care.
- 00:13:54.392 --> 00:13:57.561
- As you said in the book, it's an old joke.
- 00:13:57.561 --> 00:13:59.797
- It's just not funny anymore. yeah.
- 00:13:59.797 --> 00:14:01.666
- What do you suggest we can do, and we should do to turn
- 00:14:01.666 --> 00:14:04.702
- To apathy into more positive action?
- 00:14:04.702 --> 00:14:06.904
- Well, one of the things i challenge
- 00:14:06.904 --> 00:14:08.339
- Often as people think, you know,
- 00:14:08.339 --> 00:14:09.674
- I got to go to washington dc and, you know, start there.
- 00:14:09.674 --> 00:14:13.177
- The reality is you can start right in your backyard.
- 00:14:13.177 --> 00:14:15.146
- Get to know your legislators,
- 00:14:15.146 --> 00:14:16.647
- Your city council, your school board members.
- 00:14:16.647 --> 00:14:18.916
- Just get to to meet them and pray for them.
- 00:14:18.916 --> 00:14:20.952
- You may not agree with them, but build a relationship.
- 00:14:20.952 --> 00:14:22.954
- I tell pastors all the time,
- 00:14:22.954 --> 00:14:24.555
- If you don't know who your legislators are locally
- 00:14:24.555 --> 00:14:26.791
- Until there's a problem, that's a problem.
- 00:14:26.791 --> 00:14:28.793
- Get to know them and let them know you're
- 00:14:28.793 --> 00:14:30.661
- Praying for them, but also let them know if they stand
- 00:14:30.661 --> 00:14:33.731
- Opposite of god's word and stand opposite of of truth.
- 00:14:33.731 --> 00:14:36.901
- Let them know you're not afraid to help
- 00:14:36.901 --> 00:14:38.803
- Find somebody else to take their place,
- 00:14:38.803 --> 00:14:41.005
- But start locally and get involved.
- 00:14:41.005 --> 00:14:42.873
- And of course, the simple things of praying and
- 00:14:42.873 --> 00:14:45.209
- And encouraging and, you know, you can go a long way.
- 00:14:45.209 --> 00:14:47.945
- I just last night
- 00:14:47.945 --> 00:14:49.046
- I was in the nation's capital and who i run into aoc
- 00:14:49.046 --> 00:14:53.184
- And and i thought just like the lord to to put me to the test.
- 00:14:53.184 --> 00:14:56.554
- And her and i
- 00:14:56.554 --> 00:14:57.688
- Had a very pleasant conversation for about five minutes.
- 00:14:57.688 --> 00:15:01.225
- We had a mutual friend that i knew,
- 00:15:01.225 --> 00:15:03.294
- And she knew a strong christian guy
- 00:15:03.294 --> 00:15:04.962
- That was killed in a plane crash last year,
- 00:15:04.962 --> 00:15:07.064
- And he was a minister up there,
- 00:15:07.064 --> 00:15:09.000
- And i was just able to share the gospel.
- 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.068
- And i have friends who would say,
- 00:15:11.068 --> 00:15:12.570
- I wouldn't talk to her for anything.
- 00:15:12.570 --> 00:15:13.904
- But, you know, the reality is, the only way that we change
- 00:15:13.904 --> 00:15:16.273
- Anybody's life is with the gospel.
- 00:15:16.273 --> 00:15:18.042
- The power of god's word is the only way to do that.
- 00:15:18.042 --> 00:15:20.878
- And so we start locally with those people and engage again.
- 00:15:20.878 --> 00:15:24.515
- We've got to wake up, we've got to get ourselves
- 00:15:24.515 --> 00:15:27.184
- Educated and we've got to get involved.
- 00:15:27.184 --> 00:15:29.453
- Amen.
- 00:15:29.687 --> 00:15:30.921
- Doctor graham, what a wonderful book.
- 00:15:30.921 --> 00:15:32.456
- Ignorance and apathy.
- 00:15:32.456 --> 00:15:34.425
- Can you tell our viewers where they can get a copy?
- 00:15:34.425 --> 00:15:36.193
- They can go to pastor ben graham.com
- 00:15:36.193 --> 00:15:38.529
- And get a copy on there.
- 00:15:38.529 --> 00:15:39.764
- And we also have the god bless the usa bible on there as well.
- 00:15:39.764 --> 00:15:42.833
- All right. well, i hope you come see us again.
- 00:15:42.833 --> 00:15:45.136
- Yes, sir. glad to be here. thank you.
- 00:15:45.136 --> 00:15:46.670
- I pray our listeners will not only buy the book,
- 00:15:46.670 --> 00:15:49.673
- But they'll read it and share what you discover.
- 00:15:49.673 --> 00:15:52.943
- In a moment, i'll have some thoughts of my own.
- 00:15:52.943 --> 00:15:54.945
- And later, your emails.
- 00:15:54.945 --> 00:16:03.008
- And later, your emails.
- 00:16:03.008 --> 00:16:07.759
- In this season, i think it's important
- 00:16:08.527 --> 00:16:10.395
- To recognize that there's something paradoxical happening
- 00:16:10.395 --> 00:16:13.665
- That means there's two things happening,
- 00:16:13.665 --> 00:16:15.233
- And they seem to be in opposition to one another.
- 00:16:15.233 --> 00:16:18.403
- We're watching both an outpouring of the holy spirit
- 00:16:18.403 --> 00:16:20.839
- And an increase in wickedness.
- 00:16:20.839 --> 00:16:22.741
- We're seeing that dynamic play out on our college campuses.
- 00:16:22.741 --> 00:16:25.744
- We see reports of thousands of young people
- 00:16:25.744 --> 00:16:27.813
- Receiving salvation, being baptized.
- 00:16:27.813 --> 00:16:30.715
- Yet we also see a rise in anti-semitism
- 00:16:30.715 --> 00:16:33.452
- And a hatred for judeo-christian values.
- 00:16:33.452 --> 00:16:36.621
- Well, that dynamic is also playing out in dc.
- 00:16:36.621 --> 00:16:39.724
- On one hand, we have some elected officials
- 00:16:39.724 --> 00:16:41.760
- Standing up for truth, leaning forward with their faith.
- 00:16:41.760 --> 00:16:45.197
- They aim to make our streets and our schools safer.
- 00:16:45.197 --> 00:16:48.567
- Simultaneously, we have some elected officials
- 00:16:48.567 --> 00:16:51.336
- Calling for mass
- 00:16:51.336 --> 00:16:52.504
- Disruption, condoning violence instead of condemning it.
- 00:16:52.504 --> 00:16:55.974
- The people we elect to represent us offer
- 00:16:55.974 --> 00:16:58.310
- A window into the heart condition of our nation.
- 00:16:58.310 --> 00:17:01.713
- That's why our goal as christians
- 00:17:01.713 --> 00:17:03.482
- Isn't to be political,
- 00:17:03.482 --> 00:17:04.983
- But to engage in the culture we live in with the truth of god
- 00:17:04.983 --> 00:17:08.353
- So we can all experience better outcomes.
- 00:17:08.353 --> 00:17:11.356
- Well, unfortunately, there's a leadership shortage
- 00:17:11.356 --> 00:17:13.225
- In communities across our nation.
- 00:17:13.225 --> 00:17:15.093
- We're not lacking people with titles or authority.
- 00:17:15.093 --> 00:17:18.063
- We're lacking people
- 00:17:18.063 --> 00:17:19.231
- With wisdom and understanding, with a biblical worldview.
- 00:17:19.231 --> 00:17:22.167
- People who are willing to intentionally use
- 00:17:22.167 --> 00:17:24.236
- Their godliness to demonstrate the principles they believe in.
- 00:17:24.236 --> 00:17:28.840
- This type of leadership
- 00:17:28.840 --> 00:17:30.142
- Is more about character than skills or abilities.
- 00:17:30.142 --> 00:17:33.078
- Well, i have an idea.
- 00:17:33.078 --> 00:17:34.746
- You can be a leader in the community where you are.
- 00:17:34.746 --> 00:17:37.716
- That's the assignment.
- 00:17:37.716 --> 00:17:38.884
- If we do that, there's more reasons for hope than despair.
- 00:17:38.884 --> 00:17:42.187
- I promise we'll be back with your emails in just a moment.
- 00:17:42.187 --> 00:17:53.005
- I promise we'll be back with your emails in just a moment.
- 00:17:53.005 --> 00:17:57.870
- They just a reminder.
- 00:17:58.371 --> 00:17:59.338
- If you missed the live broadcast,
- 00:17:59.338 --> 00:18:00.773
- You can go to aj now.com.
- 00:18:00.773 --> 00:18:03.209
- They're all there for you as well as a link
- 00:18:03.209 --> 00:18:05.478
- Where you can sign up for our weekly newsletter
- 00:18:05.478 --> 00:18:07.313
- To keep you up to date
- 00:18:07.313 --> 00:18:08.347
- On all that's happening with the ministry.
- 00:18:08.347 --> 00:18:10.816
- Your emails are always a highlight of the program.
- 00:18:10.816 --> 00:18:12.952
- Your thoughts and perspectives are important.
- 00:18:12.952 --> 00:18:15.621
- This is brian from georgia.
- 00:18:15.621 --> 00:18:17.190
- Pastor jackson, i really appreciate
- 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:18.658
- Your perspective on politics and current events.
- 00:18:18.658 --> 00:18:21.294
- It's refreshing
- 00:18:21.294 --> 00:18:22.461
- To finally find a broadcast with a biblical reference
- 00:18:22.461 --> 00:18:24.263
- To all that's going on in today's world.
- 00:18:24.263 --> 00:18:26.499
- Your show and stickleback tonight
- 00:18:26.499 --> 00:18:28.201
- Are the one two punch
- 00:18:28.201 --> 00:18:29.402
- That i wish could replace the major networks.
- 00:18:29.402 --> 00:18:31.404
- Nightly news.
- 00:18:31.404 --> 00:18:32.738
- Keep up the fantastic work.
- 00:18:32.738 --> 00:18:34.340
- God bless you and your endeavors.
- 00:18:34.340 --> 00:18:36.909
- Well, i'm not sure the legacy networks
- 00:18:36.909 --> 00:18:38.811
- Are quite ready for steckel back at aj,
- 00:18:38.811 --> 00:18:41.814
- But if they call, we'll let you know
- 00:18:41.814 --> 00:18:44.116
- Then, richards, from oregon, said as the trump administration
- 00:18:45.284 --> 00:18:47.553
- Appealed to the supreme court to do something about judges
- 00:18:47.553 --> 00:18:50.456
- Making nationwide injunctions outside of their jurisdiction.
- 00:18:50.456 --> 00:18:53.492
- Jurisdictional district.
- 00:18:53.492 --> 00:18:56.028
- Richard, there are a number of lawsuits
- 00:18:56.028 --> 00:18:57.997
- Making their way through the system.
- 00:18:57.997 --> 00:18:59.865
- I think we've got to keep praying.
- 00:18:59.865 --> 00:19:01.567
- There's that right now.
- 00:19:01.567 --> 00:19:02.435
- There's a burden in the legal system
- 00:19:02.435 --> 00:19:03.769
- To try to sort out the apathy and the confusion
- 00:19:03.769 --> 00:19:05.871
- That's taking place in some other places.
- 00:19:05.871 --> 00:19:08.107
- God's watching over this.
- 00:19:08.107 --> 00:19:10.276
- You know,
- 00:19:10.276 --> 00:19:11.277
- Finally, i'd like to say that with your help,
- 00:19:11.277 --> 00:19:12.912
- We're getting more and more people
- 00:19:12.912 --> 00:19:14.280
- Watching our show each week.
- 00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:16.048
- You know, truth and hope.
- 00:19:16.048 --> 00:19:17.049
- They cut through all the noise.
- 00:19:17.049 --> 00:19:18.718
- I can see it in the emails we receive.
- 00:19:18.718 --> 00:19:20.753
- Those of you who write telling us
- 00:19:20.753 --> 00:19:22.255
- How grateful you are to have found a place
- 00:19:22.255 --> 00:19:24.457
- Where you can trust what you hear.
- 00:19:24.457 --> 00:19:26.859
- Well, the world is certainly challenging enough to navigate.
- 00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:29.829
- You also have to distinguish
- 00:19:29.829 --> 00:19:30.997
- Between what's real and what's fake.
- 00:19:30.997 --> 00:19:33.466
- So let's keep going.
- 00:19:33.466 --> 00:19:34.734
- I'd like to ask you to ask a friend
- 00:19:34.734 --> 00:19:36.669
- Or a family member to watch as well.
- 00:19:36.669 --> 00:19:39.205
- You spread the word will spread the truth.
- 00:19:39.205 --> 00:19:42.141
- Thank you for watching tonight.
- 00:19:42.141 --> 00:19:43.643
- I'm alan jackson.
- 00:19:43.643 --> 00:19:44.977
- We'll see you tomorrow. good night.
- 00:19:44.977 --> 00:19:44.977
