Adam English & Kelly Wenner: Learning to Give and Reflect the Joys of Christmas | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

December 8, 2025 | 52:42

Kirk Cameron is joined by Adam English and Kelly Wenner sharing the inspirations of Saint Nicholas of Myra and finding the peace and joy that Jesus gives in the busyness of the Christmas season.

#Christmas #Gratitude #Thankfulness #Choices #Author #Culture #ChurchHistory #Generosity #LoveyourNeighbor #WorldHistory #GlorifyGod #Savior #Incarnate #Joy #Rejoice #Blessing #KirkCameron

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Adam English & Kelly Wenner: Learning to Give and Reflect the Joys of Christmas | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | December 8, 2025

Kirk cameron: it's that time of year again when we start
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Decorating our homes with lights, ornaments, trees, and
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Nativity scenes, buying gifts, traveling to see family,
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Planning parties, going to parties, wrapping presents,
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Baking and cooking, eating scrumptious meals, and then
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Suddenly feeling depressed, exhausted, and so glad that it's
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All over.
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It is so easy to lose the peace and joy that are the true
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Meaning of christmas, and today my guests, adam english and
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Kelly wenner, will remind us of the real inspirations for
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This holiday.
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It's all next on "takeaways."
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Adam english: community acts done anonymously, that's one of
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The markers of saint nicholas.
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He's giving gifts, but he's doing it without recognition.
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Kelly wenner: what do we need in order to truly rejoice in
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The lord?
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We need a grateful heart.
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We need to make the choice to rejoice.
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Rejoicing in the lord means we're choosing a mindset
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Of gratitude.
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[music]
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Kirk: my first guest serves as chair of the department of
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Christian studies at campbell university.
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Adam english teaches christian theology and philosophy, and
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He's the author of "the saint who would be santa claus: the
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True life and trials of nicholas of myra."
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Adam, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
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Adam: and merry christmas to you, kirk.
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Kirk: merry christmas to you too.
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I'm so happy to hear that more and more these days.
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You go to the grocery store, you go to starbucks, and you're
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Hearing merry christmas.
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Adam: well, it's the time of the year for it, absolutely.
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Kirk: it really is, and it's my favorite time of year, and i
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Love the fact that we're talking about a real person named
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Saint nicholas.
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It's not just the kris kringle we see in cartoons.
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It's not just santa claus, who is a fairy tale, but a real guy
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Who was such a beloved christian that they sainted him, and he's
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Now part of our traditions thousands of years later.
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Adam: yeah, that's absolutely right.
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You're talking about somebody who lived in the late third
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Century and early fourth century in a town in myra, which is on
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The southern coast of turkey and became a pastor, a bishop of the
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Area, and lived a life of great works and did amazing things and
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Followed the example of jesus.
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Kirk: so, he was a real christian who really did
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Love jesus?
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I mean, saint nicholas loved jesus?
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Adam: absolutely, that's one of the delightful facts about him.
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He saw himself as a pastor, to be sure, of the town, but he
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Also saw himself as a patron of the people, and so a number of
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The stories are not only about him doing pastoral works of good
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Deeds, but also serving his community.
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One great story i love about him is there was a famine in the
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Area, so you think everything that comes with a drought and a
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Famine and disease, and a grain ship was passing through, and
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Saint nicholas himself--and think about this as a pastor--
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Went down to the port at andriaki and stopped the ship
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And bartered for grain to be released to the city and to pay
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For it.
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So he saved the city from starvation.
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And you know, you think about that as a patron of the city as
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An example of christ and as the work of a pastor.
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Kirk: i love this.
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This is redeeming saint nicholas, santa claus for us as
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Families, and i can't wait to hear more of these stories that
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You have in your book.
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How did saint nicholas become known in history as the greatest
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Gift-giver of all time?
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Adam: one of the earliest stories about saint nicholas,
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He had not yet become a pastor, a bishop.
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He was a young man, he just recently lost his parents and
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Had an inheritance to spend and was burdened by it, what to do
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With this?
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He learned of a family in town who recently lost everything,
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And the father was in desperation, considering selling
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Off his daughters into some kind of enslavement or servitude.
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And he decides to intervene, but remembering the words of christ
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That you should not let your right hand know what your left
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Hand is doing in gift-giving, he decided to give his gifts
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Anonymously and slipped by the house late one night, just
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Dropping a bag of gold through the window.
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It was discovered in the morning, and that money was used
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As a dowry for one of the daughters.
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Nicholas returned and did it a second and then a third time to
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Save those daughters, and that's really the reason he's become so
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Associated with gift-giving.
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The story as it got told and retold, some versions had him
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Dropping the gold down the chimney and it landing in some
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Stockings or some shoes that were drying by the fire, and
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Very quickly parents wanted to start to give those similar kind
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Of gifts to their children around the holiday season.
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Kirk: one of the things that is so interesting about iconic men
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Like this throughout history is that there is a mix of both the
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True story and then the embellished fairy tales.
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These are things that that often happen with these heroes of
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History, and then we mythologize them, and pretty soon he's a
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Jolly old elf with a big red suit, and he's got a team
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Of reindeer.
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And so it's fascinating to me to go through your book like this
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And find out what's true, what's historical, and then what
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Is embellishment.
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Adam: you gotta think a lot of these stories are passed through
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Families as families retell the stories at christmas time, and
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Of course, they're adding embellishments, they're adding
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Details to them, so there's as much, you know, legend as there
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Is history in the stories of nicholas, which make them
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Exciting stories to tell.
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Kirk: and this is exactly what we do as fathers, and especially
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Now as a grandfather, i've embellished all my old stories,
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90% of it's not true, but the kids love it, and so i run with
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It, and apparently that's what we've done with saint nicholas.
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Tell us, adam, what would we be most surprised to learn about
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Nicholas of myra?
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Adam: yeah, i think what people would really be surprised to
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Learn about him, he was a jolly gift-giver, but he also stood
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For justice, and he stood for fairness, and so a number of the
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Stories have him defending the rights of people falsely
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Accused, and that's one of the reasons he's also a patron saint
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Of prisoners and the falsely accused is because of
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That association.
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There's a fabulous story where he intervenes in an execution in
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The middle of town and stops the execution, realizing this is a
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False accusation, and he makes things right.
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And you know, i think that sense of--that rounded sense of
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Fairness that nicholas brings to the stories of generosity and
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Gift-giving, i think that would surprise a lot of people.
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Kirk: yeah, i think this is absolutely fascinating.
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At what point in history did santa claus become associated
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With the elves and a jolly elf with a big red suit and a team
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Of reindeer?
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Adam: yeah, the story of saint nicholas really is an
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American story.
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You have america in the early 1800s is a mix of german and
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Dutch and french and all of this, and they're all bringing
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Their separate traditions.
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And you have people who are also wanting to create truly
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American traditions.
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John pintard in new york and washington irving begin looking
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At saint nicholas is this perfect model, somebody that
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Could bring together a lot of cultures and create new
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Traditions, and so you've got all of that in the early 1800s
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Happening, you've also got the commercialization, you've got
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Vendors who are looking for someone to sell products at the
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Holidays, and who more trustworthy than saint nicholas?
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And if you could plump him up and put him in a red suit, he
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Would look so much better, so it's a process of domestication,
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Commercialization and all that, and storytelling too.
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There's a lot of storytelling that goes on, "the night before
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Christmas," the great poem, and all the traditions that
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Go along.
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Kirk: yeah, embellishment and then illustrating those
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Embellishments, and then all of a sudden that becomes the iconic
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Figure that we know today.
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I even heard the story that it was a soft drink company that
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Had saint nicholas dressed up in a green suit, but that the green
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Suit didn't sell as many soft drinks.
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They changed the color to red, and it worked, and it stuck.
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Adam: yeah, haddon sundblom in 1931 illustrated the first
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Coca-cola commercial using santa claus in that iconic red suit.
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But others had already been portraying him in a similar way,
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But he really gets the credit.
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Those coca-cola commercials are just so classic.
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Kirk: and then, of course, there's the imagery in my mind
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As you read in the bible of christ coming with horses, you
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Know, on the clouds with power and glory, and he's gonna be
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Giving gifts and rewards to the righteous, and i wonder if
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That's not the source of the imagery of santa claus coming
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With a team of reindeer and, you know, a sleigh with a sack of
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Presents for the good and and coal to put in the stockings of
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The bad.
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Adam: you know that's a good theory.
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One of the first illustrations was in 1821, a friend, a
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Children's friend, a little book that pictured saint nicholas in
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A sleigh with reindeer on a rooftop, but also washington
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Irving had depicted saint nicholas, you know, traveling
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Over homes in a sleigh and being pulled by horses and reindeer
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And things like that.
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So, yeah, there's there's a lot of origins for that, but
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Definitely the poem "the night before christmas" or a visit
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From saint nicholas is where you really get the names of the
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Reindeer and that iconic picture of him showing up at homes.
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Kirk: is there any historical evidence that might give us a
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True picture of what the real saint nicholas looked like?
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Adam: so, we do have the bones of the original saint nicholas
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In bari, italy, and in venice.
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They're divided between those two places, and the skull has
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Been examined.
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Carol wilkinson in the uk has recreated from the skull itself,
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The iconic face of saint nicholas, and we have some sense
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Of what he probably looked like from a restructuring of
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The bones.
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Kirk: if we had a more historically-accurate picture of
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The real saint nicholas, how might that change our
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Christmas traditions?
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Adam: yeah, i think that it would help us to balance out the
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The gift-giving and the family celebrations with acts of
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Kindness, acts of generosity, and especially community acts
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Done anonymously.
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That's one of the markers of saint nicholas, he's giving
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Gifts, but he's doing it without recognition and trying to do it
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In the spirit of christ and not to get glory for himself, so i
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Would love to see families recapture some of that essence
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Of saint nicholas.
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Kirk: i love that.
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That's what we need to do.
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That's what christmas really needs to be all about, not an
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Overlooking of the reason for the season, but also not
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Overlooking all of this, the gift-giving, the traditions, the
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Family get-togethers, and i'm really looking forward to diving
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In more and talking more about how we can make a difference
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This christmas with a more historically-accurate portrait
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Of saint nicholas.
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After the break we're gonna continue to talk more with adam
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About the life of saint nicholas, and then later in the
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Program, kelly wenner is gonna join us, and she's gonna share
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Steps on how we can slow down in the busyness of the holidays and
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Enjoy what's really important, so stay with us.
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Kelly: when you start your prayer by focusing on gratitude,
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It really helps increase your peace and your joy and draws you
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Closer to him.
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[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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Kirk: we're back with adam english, discussing the true
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Life and trials of nicholas of myra.
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Adam, what events was nicholas a part of that shaped
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Historic christianity?
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Adam: yeah, so nicholas lived at an amazing point in history.
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When he was born, christianity was an illegal minority faith,
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Persecuted faith.
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When he died, christianity was not only legalized, but was the
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Preferred faith of the empire, and constantine is really
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Responsible for that, who came to power in about 312.
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Kirk: now, which empire was this?
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Adam: the roman empire, yeah, i should have said that.
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In the year 325, the emperor constantine calls a council to
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Nicaea, which is a watershed event in the history of
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Christianity, because it's really here that christians come
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Together, christian leaders come together and articulate what is
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It that we as christians believe about jesus christ, the center
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Of our faith?
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And so it's at this council that they produce the very famous
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Nicene creed and have a number of tremendous debates, and
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Nicholas is present at this council.
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Kirk: wow.
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Adam: and so that's pretty remarkable.
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Kirk: that is really remarkable.
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And what happened at this council?
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Adam: so we don't have the records of the debates that
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Happened at the council, but one of the great antagonists, one of
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The greats, the arch-heretics is this guy arius, who had given
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Christ a little bit lower place than divinity.
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Ultimately that did not win out, and so there are some fabulous
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Legends that come out regarding nicholas' participation in
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The council.
00:13:27.063 --> 00:13:28.398
Kirk: yes, tell us about the fabulous nicholas and the memes
00:13:28.398 --> 00:13:31.534
That i get on my phone every christmas.
00:13:31.534 --> 00:13:33.536
Adam: so, this is purely legendary, but the story is told
00:13:33.536 --> 00:13:36.740
That arius is standing and presenting these blasphemous
00:13:36.740 --> 00:13:42.412
Ideas about christ.
00:13:42.412 --> 00:13:43.847
Nicholas can no longer contain it, stands up and slaps him in
00:13:43.847 --> 00:13:47.417
The face.
00:13:47.417 --> 00:13:48.785
For such an offense, though, in front of the emperor, and
00:13:48.785 --> 00:13:51.655
Nicholas is stripped of his bishop's robes, and he's in
00:13:51.655 --> 00:13:54.958
Prison for the remainder of the council.
00:13:54.958 --> 00:13:57.294
And so a lot of times in imagery you'll see nicholas without the
00:13:57.294 --> 00:14:01.264
Miter hat and some of his garments of of the bishop's
00:14:01.264 --> 00:14:05.101
Attire referencing that story.
00:14:05.101 --> 00:14:08.238
So, you know, it's purely legendary, and but you'll see at
00:14:08.238 --> 00:14:11.708
Christmas time memes scattered around the internet referring
00:14:11.708 --> 00:14:15.178
To, you know, i came here to hand out presents and punch
00:14:15.178 --> 00:14:17.881
Heretics, and i just ran out of presents, there's jokes
00:14:17.881 --> 00:14:20.450
Like that.
00:14:20.450 --> 00:14:21.818
So if you see something like that about santa claus punching
00:14:21.818 --> 00:14:24.688
A heretic, you know that's where that story comes from.
00:14:24.688 --> 00:14:27.023
Kirk: do we know that it's not true?
00:14:27.023 --> 00:14:28.858
Adam: absolutely, for one thing, arius himself was not present at
00:14:28.858 --> 00:14:32.495
The council.
00:14:32.495 --> 00:14:33.863
A letter from arius was read at the council.
00:14:33.863 --> 00:14:35.532
For another thing, the story first appears in the 1400s, so,
00:14:35.532 --> 00:14:39.302
Long after all of the events that take place there.
00:14:39.302 --> 00:14:42.739
Which is a shame, isn't it?
00:14:42.739 --> 00:14:44.074
Kirk: that is a shame.
00:14:44.074 --> 00:14:46.276
Adam: there's another story real quick, a legendary story about
00:14:46.276 --> 00:14:49.012
Nicholas at the council, that he in order to demonstrate the
00:14:49.012 --> 00:14:54.084
Trinity, god is father, son, and spirit, he held a brick in his
00:14:54.084 --> 00:14:57.854
Hand and said, you know, in the same way this brick is one
00:14:57.854 --> 00:15:01.157
Object, it is also composed of fire, sand, and water, and as he
00:15:01.157 --> 00:15:05.895
Said this, the brick, you know, caught flames, degraded into
00:15:05.895 --> 00:15:09.466
Into sand and water in his hand.
00:15:09.466 --> 00:15:11.668
So, you know, purely legendary but some fabulous stories that
00:15:11.668 --> 00:15:15.005
You can dig up on the life of saint nicholas at the council.
00:15:15.005 --> 00:15:20.010
Kirk: tell us the story of how nicholas became the patron
00:15:20.010 --> 00:15:22.445
Of prisoners.
00:15:22.445 --> 00:15:24.214
Adam: yeah, a convoy of roman soldiers came to town, and a
00:15:24.214 --> 00:15:28.518
Riot broke out in town.
00:15:28.518 --> 00:15:29.919
Nicholas, again, not only as pastor but as a patron of the
00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:33.156
City, went down to the harbor and negotiated with the soldiers
00:15:33.156 --> 00:15:38.895
And the convoy to break up this riot and stop the chaos.
00:15:38.895 --> 00:15:42.532
He so impressed the three roman officers that they remembered
00:15:42.532 --> 00:15:46.236
Who he was.
00:15:46.236 --> 00:15:47.604
Later, back in constantinople, these three officers were
00:15:47.604 --> 00:15:50.974
Arrested on charges of treason against the emperor, emperor
00:15:50.974 --> 00:15:55.211
Constantine, slated for execution, and the story goes
00:15:55.211 --> 00:16:00.216
That nicholas appears to constantine in a dream, telling
00:16:00.216 --> 00:16:03.787
Him that these men are innocent.
00:16:03.787 --> 00:16:05.688
And so from that point on, prisoners began to look not only
00:16:05.688 --> 00:16:09.559
To christ but also to saint nicholas, thinking here's
00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:12.896
Somebody who can relate to us in prison.
00:16:12.896 --> 00:16:16.833
But even further than that, another connection is that
00:16:16.833 --> 00:16:19.436
There's evidence to suggest that nicholas during the final
00:16:19.436 --> 00:16:22.272
Persecution against the christians was himself
00:16:22.272 --> 00:16:24.474
Imprisoned and perhaps even tortured for a time and then
00:16:24.474 --> 00:16:29.479
Released, so he has a number of connections to those who have
00:16:29.479 --> 00:16:33.716
Been falsely accused, those who have spent time in jail, and i
00:16:33.716 --> 00:16:37.053
Think that's one of the beautiful aspects
00:16:37.053 --> 00:16:38.955
Of relatability.
00:16:38.955 --> 00:16:40.723
Kirk: yeah, i think it's just fascinating that a real man,
00:16:40.723 --> 00:16:44.394
Nicholas of myra, is so beloved by so many that he's standing
00:16:44.394 --> 00:16:50.733
For righteousness, he's there at the council, he's got his robes
00:16:50.733 --> 00:16:56.172
Stripped from him, he's no longer got his position within
00:16:56.172 --> 00:16:59.042
The church, but then i believe they gave it back to him,
00:16:59.042 --> 00:17:01.711
Because he was so loved, and then when he died, there were
00:17:01.711 --> 00:17:05.315
Those who hated him so much for what he stood for that they dug
00:17:05.315 --> 00:17:07.884
Up his bones, right?
00:17:07.884 --> 00:17:09.252
They wanted to get rid of them, and then they were divided, and
00:17:09.252 --> 00:17:13.323
They were honored in different places, and then everybody wants
00:17:13.323 --> 00:17:15.525
To claim him as part of their sect and their group, and that's
00:17:15.525 --> 00:17:19.262
Just fabulous.
00:17:19.262 --> 00:17:20.630
I wonder how he's thinking in heaven right now as he's looking
00:17:20.630 --> 00:17:23.233
At how his life has been turned into not just this book, but
00:17:23.233 --> 00:17:27.237
Santa claus by coca-cola and all of these things.
00:17:27.237 --> 00:17:30.507
Adam: you know, that's a good question.
00:17:30.507 --> 00:17:31.875
What would he be thinking about this?
00:17:31.875 --> 00:17:33.643
Nicholas is beloved, by far the most popular non-biblical saint
00:17:33.643 --> 00:17:38.281
In all of history, hundreds of churches named after nicholas,
00:17:38.281 --> 00:17:42.085
Townships named after him, and of course names, parents naming
00:17:42.085 --> 00:17:45.622
Their children after nicholas in a lot of varieties.
00:17:45.622 --> 00:17:48.158
So, yeah, he's beloved, and but i think he points us back to
00:17:48.158 --> 00:17:52.061
Christ, and he points us back to the biblical example of
00:17:52.061 --> 00:17:54.931
Generosity and justice.
00:17:54.931 --> 00:17:56.900
Kirk: so, adam, how do you blend all of the myth and
00:17:56.900 --> 00:18:00.537
Embellishment of the real saint nicholas of myra together with
00:18:00.537 --> 00:18:04.240
The birth of christ and the real reason for the season at
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.277
Christmas with your own family?
00:18:07.277 --> 00:18:09.279
Adam: yeah, with our own family, we try to do both in some ways.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.749
I think there's nothing wrong with gift-giving at the
00:18:12.749 --> 00:18:14.717
Christmas season, celebrating the holiday, singing carols,
00:18:14.717 --> 00:18:18.521
Putting up a tree, all of that, but december 6th is saint
00:18:18.521 --> 00:18:22.292
Nicholas day, and so families have an opportunity to celebrate
00:18:22.292 --> 00:18:26.596
On december 25th all the christmas traditions, but then
00:18:26.596 --> 00:18:29.532
On december 6th, maybe think about adding a tradition, a
00:18:29.532 --> 00:18:34.304
Saint nicholas tradition of generosity, gift-giving, doing
00:18:34.304 --> 00:18:37.574
Something, a work of service for the community, giving a gift
00:18:37.574 --> 00:18:41.110
Anonymously, baking cookies for your neighbors, whatever that
00:18:41.110 --> 00:18:44.314
Might be that you could say, you know, we want to have a little
00:18:44.314 --> 00:18:47.483
Bit of both, and i think that's a good tradition people can add
00:18:47.483 --> 00:18:50.186
To their holiday activities.
00:18:50.186 --> 00:18:52.922
Kirk: i made a little movie called "saving christmas" some
00:18:52.922 --> 00:18:55.325
Years ago, which was rated by some as the worst movie ever
00:18:55.325 --> 00:19:00.330
Made on the planet.
00:19:00.330 --> 00:19:01.664
Later found out that some atheists on reddit had organized
00:19:01.664 --> 00:19:05.201
Through their networks those to rate it horribly in order to
00:19:05.201 --> 00:19:08.972
Tank the christian message in there.
00:19:08.972 --> 00:19:11.407
And admittedly, some of it was cheesy, but what i loved about
00:19:11.407 --> 00:19:14.611
It was the idea of debunking those christian legalists who
00:19:14.611 --> 00:19:23.186
Want to do away with all of this and only focus on the birth
00:19:23.186 --> 00:19:27.156
Of christ.
00:19:27.156 --> 00:19:28.691
Some of them say, you know, if you look at the old testament,
00:19:28.691 --> 00:19:30.426
It says you shouldn't be having these christmas trees with
00:19:30.426 --> 00:19:32.495
Silver and gold around a tree, specifically mentioned in some
00:19:32.495 --> 00:19:36.132
Of the old testament books, and they're so concerned about the
00:19:36.132 --> 00:19:40.403
Voodoo, hocus pocus of pagan celebrations that they don't
00:19:40.403 --> 00:19:45.775
Understand the wonderful opportunity of a christian
00:19:45.775 --> 00:19:49.946
Takeover of what may have been pagan festivals and then using
00:19:49.946 --> 00:19:54.917
Them for the honor of jesus christ at this time of year when
00:19:54.917 --> 00:19:59.922
The sky is dark and it's cold, and he is the light of the
00:19:59.922 --> 00:20:02.959
World, and i just loved the fact that we can take heart that we
00:20:02.959 --> 00:20:10.466
Have a god who is a spirit but became flesh and entered into
00:20:10.466 --> 00:20:16.239
This world in the form of a man that we can see and touch.
00:20:16.239 --> 00:20:21.277
Therefore, i think that while we shouldn't max out our credit
00:20:21.277 --> 00:20:25.315
Cards, we shouldn't go into debt through consumerism, but we can
00:20:25.315 --> 00:20:31.654
Embrace the spirit of christ and the message of an incarnate god
00:20:31.654 --> 00:20:39.162
By having friends and family over and making a big meal and
00:20:39.162 --> 00:20:42.665
Giving gifts to one another, and downloading the truth about
00:20:42.665 --> 00:20:46.202
Christmas into things that actually encourage us and bring
00:20:46.202 --> 00:20:49.906
Glory to god.
00:20:49.906 --> 00:20:51.507
Adam: the incarnation, the word made flesh is at the heart of
00:20:51.507 --> 00:20:54.510
Christianity, and i don't think we should shy away from that.
00:20:54.510 --> 00:20:58.414
Of course, you can overdo it, but i'm not sure that cutting
00:20:58.414 --> 00:21:02.251
Ourselves off from all material joys and blessings at the
00:21:02.251 --> 00:21:05.855
Holiday season to focus on christ will make this holiday
00:21:05.855 --> 00:21:08.691
Any more holier.
00:21:08.691 --> 00:21:10.560
A lot of times distance, putting god at a further remove doesn't
00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:14.330
Make the heart grow fonder, it makes the heart forget.
00:21:14.330 --> 00:21:17.400
And i think as we try to, you know, carve out this season and
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:21.404
Saying we're only gonna make this a spiritual celebration and
00:21:21.404 --> 00:21:24.440
Not participate in any of the rest, it won't make us better
00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:27.176
People, it'll make us sad or poor people in a lot of ways
00:21:27.176 --> 00:21:30.980
And experience.
00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:32.648
Kirk: if i think of those two great commandments, love god
00:21:32.648 --> 00:21:34.617
With all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love
00:21:34.617 --> 00:21:37.153
Your neighbor as yourself, can't we do that at christmas time?
00:21:37.153 --> 00:21:40.490
Can we do that at every season of the year?
00:21:40.490 --> 00:21:43.426
And what better time to do it than at christmas, when people
00:21:43.426 --> 00:21:47.130
Are just a little kinder, people are just a little more open to
00:21:47.130 --> 00:21:50.433
Generosity, and it's an emotional time of year for many
00:21:50.433 --> 00:21:53.536
Of us who have lost loved ones, going through difficult times,
00:21:53.536 --> 00:21:57.140
And it's a beautiful context in which we can share the gospel
00:21:57.140 --> 00:22:02.478
With people.
00:22:02.478 --> 00:22:03.846
Christ the light of the world, who made you and loves you and
00:22:03.846 --> 00:22:07.517
Sent a savior for you.
00:22:07.517 --> 00:22:09.252
I love the music, i love the food, i love everything
00:22:09.252 --> 00:22:11.421
About christmas.
00:22:11.421 --> 00:22:12.955
I can't say enough about it, and.
00:22:12.955 --> 00:22:14.724
Adam: i love that message as well.
00:22:14.724 --> 00:22:16.259
And you're right that these putting up the tree, putting up
00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:19.162
The lights, that these are acts of love, and these are acts of
00:22:19.162 --> 00:22:22.899
Family and and warmth and generosity and trying to make
00:22:22.899 --> 00:22:26.602
The season brighter.
00:22:26.602 --> 00:22:27.937
I think those are things that we should cherish and celebrate.
00:22:27.937 --> 00:22:30.406
Kirk: so you're saying that serious christians can celebrate
00:22:30.406 --> 00:22:33.810
Christmas without qualms of conscience?
00:22:33.810 --> 00:22:36.512
Adam: and they can do it in the cheesiest way possible.
00:22:36.512 --> 00:22:38.881
Kirk: i love it, christmas sweaters and all?
00:22:38.881 --> 00:22:40.450
Adam: absolutely.
00:22:40.450 --> 00:22:41.918
Kirk: adam, thanks so much.
00:22:41.918 --> 00:22:43.286
This book is on my reading list this christmas, thank you.
00:22:43.286 --> 00:22:48.491
After the break we'll be joined by kelly wenner, reminding us on
00:22:48.491 --> 00:22:51.327
The importance of a grateful heart and embracing hope and joy
00:22:51.327 --> 00:22:55.264
In this christmas season, so don't go away.
00:22:55.264 --> 00:22:57.967
Kelly: we need to make the choice to rejoice.
00:22:57.967 --> 00:22:59.902
Rejoicing in the lord means we're choosing a mindset
00:22:59.902 --> 00:23:03.139
Of gratitude.
00:23:03.139 --> 00:23:04.474
Rejoice in the lord isn't telling us how to feel, it's
00:23:04.474 --> 00:23:07.810
Telling us what to do.
00:23:07.810 --> 00:23:09.178
Rejoicing is a verb, so we make the choice, we take the action,
00:23:09.178 --> 00:23:13.516
And that action impacts how we feel.
00:23:13.516 --> 00:23:15.518
[music]
00:23:15.518 --> 00:23:22.005
[music]
00:23:22.005 --> 00:23:23.288
[music]
00:23:23.622 --> 00:23:27.459
Kirk: as the founder of soulstrength fit faith-based
00:23:30.229 --> 00:23:32.931
Fitness, kelly wenner has developed christian health and
00:23:32.931 --> 00:23:36.068
Fitness programs that combine exercise, nutrition, and daily
00:23:36.068 --> 00:23:39.805
Bible study.
00:23:39.805 --> 00:23:41.139
She's also the author of several devotional books, including this
00:23:41.139 --> 00:23:43.742
One, "heartfelt holidays: devotionals for thanksgiving
00:23:43.742 --> 00:23:47.546
And christmas."
00:23:47.546 --> 00:23:48.914
Thanks so much, kelly, for joining us on "takeaways."
00:23:48.914 --> 00:23:50.682
Kelly: thank you so much for having me here.
00:23:50.682 --> 00:23:52.518
Kirk: christmas and thanksgiving have got to be just the most
00:23:52.518 --> 00:23:56.188
World-class meals anyone will eat throughout the year.
00:23:56.188 --> 00:23:59.925
Even on my birthday, i know it's not gonna be good as christmas.
00:23:59.925 --> 00:24:03.061
Kelly: yes, absolutely.
00:24:03.061 --> 00:24:04.396
Kirk: and this is a time where we struggle to keep joy and the
00:24:04.396 --> 00:24:09.568
Reason for the season in focus, because there's so many
00:24:09.568 --> 00:24:13.205
Distractions going on, not to mention the great food gets us
00:24:13.205 --> 00:24:16.875
Out of shape.
00:24:16.875 --> 00:24:18.210
And so i'm so glad that you wrote this devotional right
00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:20.612
Here, finding stillness and meaning in the
00:24:20.612 --> 00:24:23.815
Season's busyness.
00:24:23.815 --> 00:24:25.417
Why did you write this book?
00:24:25.417 --> 00:24:26.785
Kelly: yes, i mean, absolutely.
00:24:26.785 --> 00:24:28.420
Christmas is the most wonderful time of year, but i think if
00:24:28.420 --> 00:24:31.356
We're honest for a lot of us, it can also be the most
00:24:31.356 --> 00:24:33.792
Chaotic, right?
00:24:33.792 --> 00:24:35.193
Our schedules are filled with extra activities, parties, all
00:24:35.193 --> 00:24:38.297
Good things, still more obligations, and of course
00:24:38.297 --> 00:24:41.099
There's the shopping and the cooking and the prepping, and
00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:44.069
Sometimes the stress that comes from family dynamics or maybe
00:24:44.069 --> 00:24:48.040
The loneliness of not having family around or having the
00:24:48.040 --> 00:24:51.143
Relationships you wish you had, and what can happen without even
00:24:51.143 --> 00:24:55.147
Realizing it sometimes is what we need most, time with him in
00:24:55.147 --> 00:24:59.651
His presence can get pushed to the back burner, and for many,
00:24:59.651 --> 00:25:03.689
The joy of the season gets buried under the pressure and
00:25:03.689 --> 00:25:07.893
The busyness.
00:25:07.893 --> 00:25:09.361
You know, it's often said if satan can't make you sin, he'll
00:25:09.361 --> 00:25:14.132
Keep you busy, and there's so much truth to that, because both
00:25:14.132 --> 00:25:17.903
Sin and busyness can have the same effect.
00:25:17.903 --> 00:25:21.039
They can cut off our connection to god and to other people, and
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.809
That's because busyness can lead us to live in a constant state
00:25:23.809 --> 00:25:27.179
Of hurry.
00:25:27.179 --> 00:25:28.680
But god didn't create hurry.
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:30.282
Jesus was busy, he was never hurried.
00:25:30.282 --> 00:25:33.652
And god doesn't want us to have a spirit of hurriedness, because
00:25:33.652 --> 00:25:37.089
It keeps us from experiencing the things that he wants us to
00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:41.059
Experience and give to others, love and joy and peace, and it
00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:44.663
Just keeps us from his presence, because we're distracted.
00:25:44.663 --> 00:25:48.600
And so it's so important, maybe more important in this time of
00:25:48.600 --> 00:25:52.571
Year to really lean into the spiritual disciplines that keep
00:25:52.571 --> 00:25:56.408
Us grounded, like prayer, time in his word, moments of
00:25:56.408 --> 00:26:00.846
Solitude, because that's what makes the beautiful season
00:26:00.846 --> 00:26:03.915
More beautiful.
00:26:03.915 --> 00:26:05.283
If it's hard, it really helps us.
00:26:05.283 --> 00:26:07.686
Kirk: and you mentioned these spiritual disciplines like
00:26:07.686 --> 00:26:09.855
Prayer and reading the word.
00:26:09.855 --> 00:26:11.189
I like to do that every morning that i can with a cup of coffee
00:26:11.189 --> 00:26:15.093
Before my wife wakes up.
00:26:15.093 --> 00:26:16.428
I try to see as many sunrises as possible.
00:26:16.428 --> 00:26:18.563
But at christmastime, i switch devotionals, and i have a
00:26:18.563 --> 00:26:21.967
Special christmas devotional, and it really focuses me on
00:26:21.967 --> 00:26:26.138
Different aspects of christ.
00:26:26.138 --> 00:26:29.541
And that's what i love about this is that this really is
00:26:29.541 --> 00:26:31.476
Devoted to the holiday season.
00:26:31.476 --> 00:26:33.011
And you open up with a reflection on psalm 100.
00:26:33.011 --> 00:26:36.915
Why psalm 100?
00:26:36.915 --> 00:26:38.583
Kelly: psalm 100 is such a beautiful reminder that
00:26:38.583 --> 00:26:42.120
Thanksgiving and gratitude are the doorway into god's presence.
00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:47.359
It says enter his gates with thanksgiving, and i love how the
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:50.062
Message version puts it, it says enter with the password:
00:26:50.062 --> 00:26:53.598
Thank you.
00:26:53.598 --> 00:26:54.966
So if we want to hear his voice more clearly or experience his
00:26:54.966 --> 00:26:58.103
Presence more deeply, sometimes the problem is we're simply not
00:26:58.103 --> 00:27:01.173
Entering into his gates.
00:27:01.173 --> 00:27:03.375
Of course, we can always bring god our problems, our concerns,
00:27:03.375 --> 00:27:08.113
Our prayer requests, our complaints even, but when we
00:27:08.113 --> 00:27:12.117
Begin with thanksgiving, it draws us closer to him, and it
00:27:12.117 --> 00:27:15.620
Increases our peace and joy.
00:27:15.620 --> 00:27:18.023
So that's why i begin here with the encouragement to make
00:27:18.023 --> 00:27:21.326
Thanksgiving a daily habit and the starting place of
00:27:21.326 --> 00:27:23.962
Every prayer.
00:27:23.962 --> 00:27:25.464
I think a really easy habit to form is to begin your first
00:27:25.464 --> 00:27:30.202
Prayer of the day by naming three things you're thankful for
00:27:30.202 --> 00:27:33.638
From the past 24 hours.
00:27:33.638 --> 00:27:35.006
So i keep a simple prayer journal.
00:27:35.006 --> 00:27:36.775
I just have the date and one, two, three.
00:27:36.775 --> 00:27:39.911
And these things can be small, but make them specific.
00:27:39.911 --> 00:27:42.414
The opportunity to take an evening walk with my spouse, or
00:27:42.414 --> 00:27:45.250
Maybe a phone call from a friend or a grown child.
00:27:45.250 --> 00:27:49.421
And when you start your prayer by focusing on gratitude, it
00:27:49.421 --> 00:27:54.793
Really helps increase your peace and your joy and draws you
00:27:54.793 --> 00:27:58.997
Closer to him, an easy practice during the holiday season.
00:27:58.997 --> 00:28:04.102
Kirk: keeping a gratitude journal has been a game-changer
00:28:04.102 --> 00:28:07.973
For me.
00:28:07.973 --> 00:28:09.341
With all of the distraction and the pressure and the
00:28:09.341 --> 00:28:12.944
Emotionally-stressful things that inundate us during
00:28:12.944 --> 00:28:17.783
Christmas, how can we begin to purposefully pray
00:28:17.783 --> 00:28:23.321
With gratitude?
00:28:23.321 --> 00:28:25.190
Kelly: you know, i think philippians 4 gives us such
00:28:25.190 --> 00:28:28.827
Clear guidance on praying with gratitude.
00:28:28.827 --> 00:28:32.063
"rejoice in the lord always.
00:28:32.063 --> 00:28:33.598
I will say it again, rejoice.
00:28:33.598 --> 00:28:35.400
Let your gentleness be evident to all."
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:37.469
So let's just start here.
00:28:37.469 --> 00:28:38.804
What do we need in order to truly rejoice in the lord?
00:28:38.804 --> 00:28:41.573
We need a grateful heart.
00:28:41.573 --> 00:28:43.475
We need to make the choice to rejoice.
00:28:43.475 --> 00:28:45.377
Rejoicing in the lord means we're choosing a mindset
00:28:45.377 --> 00:28:48.580
Of gratitude.
00:28:48.580 --> 00:28:49.948
Rejoice in the lord isn't telling us how to feel, it's
00:28:49.948 --> 00:28:53.218
Telling us what to do.
00:28:53.218 --> 00:28:54.586
Rejoicing is a verb.
00:28:54.586 --> 00:28:56.755
So we make the choice, we take the action, and that action
00:28:56.755 --> 00:29:00.192
Impacts how we feel.
00:29:00.192 --> 00:29:01.927
And then moving on, he says let your gentleness be evident
00:29:01.927 --> 00:29:04.963
To all.
00:29:04.963 --> 00:29:06.298
One negative consequence of ingratitude is that it can
00:29:06.298 --> 00:29:09.668
Hinder our generosity towards others.
00:29:09.668 --> 00:29:11.970
And i don't just mean financial generosity, i mean generosity
00:29:11.970 --> 00:29:16.074
With our patience, with our compassion, our forgiveness, and
00:29:16.074 --> 00:29:19.544
Our christ-like love.
00:29:19.544 --> 00:29:21.046
So what is paul saying?
00:29:21.046 --> 00:29:22.380
First he's saying.
00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:23.748
Be grateful, be grateful and rejoice, be grateful and be
00:29:23.748 --> 00:29:26.651
Gentle and generous with others.
00:29:26.651 --> 00:29:29.287
And then moving on in the verse, he gives us a three-part formula
00:29:29.287 --> 00:29:32.190
For praying with gratitude and increasing our peace and
00:29:32.190 --> 00:29:34.926
Our joy.
00:29:34.926 --> 00:29:36.561
Don't be anxious about anything, pray about everything, but pray
00:29:36.561 --> 00:29:40.365
With thanksgiving, and that's the key.
00:29:40.365 --> 00:29:42.000
We don't just bring our needs and our problems and our wants,
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:46.171
We pray with thanksgiving.
00:29:46.171 --> 00:29:47.706
So, make the conscious choice.
00:29:47.706 --> 00:29:49.841
Don't dwell on worry, pray about everything.
00:29:49.841 --> 00:29:52.310
As soon as something starts to occupy your mind or make you
00:29:52.310 --> 00:29:55.080
Feel anxious, that's your signal to choose prayer instead.
00:29:55.080 --> 00:29:59.651
But bring every prayer request with thanksgiving, thanking god
00:29:59.651 --> 00:30:03.889
In the middle of that situation.
00:30:03.889 --> 00:30:06.157
How can you thank him for a way he's already at work?
00:30:06.157 --> 00:30:08.894
So maybe somebody's praying over their marriage.
00:30:08.894 --> 00:30:12.197
Thank you, god, for the wise counsel of our marriage
00:30:12.197 --> 00:30:14.165
Therapists help me to take the next right step to heal
00:30:14.165 --> 00:30:16.668
This marriage.
00:30:16.668 --> 00:30:18.036
Maybe you're praying over your health.
00:30:18.036 --> 00:30:19.571
Thank you, god, for the ability to take prayer walks right now.
00:30:19.571 --> 00:30:22.974
Help me do everything i can to take care of my body as i deal
00:30:22.974 --> 00:30:25.744
With this issue.
00:30:25.744 --> 00:30:27.178
Or you're praying over wayward kids.
00:30:27.178 --> 00:30:28.680
Thank you, god, for the ability to be a reflection of your light
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:31.783
And your love.
00:30:31.783 --> 00:30:33.151
I may not see the fruit of that labor yet, but help me to trust
00:30:33.151 --> 00:30:35.754
You and keep sharing your love.
00:30:35.754 --> 00:30:38.056
So it's such a practical formula for praying with gratitude and
00:30:38.056 --> 00:30:41.660
Increasing your peace and your joy.
00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:44.262
Be grateful, be grateful, and rejoice.
00:30:44.262 --> 00:30:46.564
Be grateful and be gentle and generous.
00:30:46.564 --> 00:30:49.467
Don't dwell and worry, pray about everything, but pray with
00:30:49.467 --> 00:30:53.338
Thanksgiving in the middle of every situation that you're
00:30:53.338 --> 00:30:56.374
Lifting up to the lord.
00:30:56.374 --> 00:30:58.476
Kirk: kelly, what gets in the way of our gratitude?
00:30:58.476 --> 00:31:02.647
Adam: you know, i think one of the things that gets in the way
00:31:02.647 --> 00:31:05.617
Of a grateful heart is fear or worry.
00:31:05.617 --> 00:31:10.021
Rather than focusing on everything that we have to be
00:31:10.021 --> 00:31:12.490
Thankful for, our minds tend to fixate on our problems.
00:31:12.490 --> 00:31:16.895
And most of our problems, i'd say fall under four common
00:31:16.895 --> 00:31:19.531
Fears, the fear of loss, the fear of failure, the fear of
00:31:19.531 --> 00:31:23.802
Rejection, the fear of the unknown.
00:31:23.802 --> 00:31:25.937
So chances are whatever you're worrying about lately might fall
00:31:25.937 --> 00:31:29.307
Under one of those four fears.
00:31:29.307 --> 00:31:31.276
Kirk: yeah.
00:31:31.276 --> 00:31:32.610
Adam: here's the thing, we all face problems.
00:31:32.610 --> 00:31:34.713
We're all going to face times that life is tough or life just
00:31:34.713 --> 00:31:38.683
Isn't turning out the way that we hoped or expected, and these
00:31:38.683 --> 00:31:41.553
Problems or these storms in life don't stop for the holidays.
00:31:41.553 --> 00:31:45.190
And in fact, they can intensify during the holidays.
00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:48.960
And i just love the story in the book of acts of paul and a crew
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:54.032
Of sailors who found themselves caught in a massive storm, one
00:31:54.032 --> 00:31:58.536
So fierce they didn't think that they would survive.
00:31:58.536 --> 00:32:02.474
And maybe somebody watching or listening today can relate,
00:32:02.474 --> 00:32:06.444
Because maybe they're in the middle of something that feels
00:32:06.444 --> 00:32:08.980
Never-ending, too hard, or it's too much, or they see no
00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:12.650
Possible solution in sight.
00:32:12.650 --> 00:32:14.319
And maybe they need to hear the words of encouragement that paul
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.655
Gave his crew.
00:32:17.655 --> 00:32:19.391
He said, "take courage.
00:32:19.391 --> 00:32:21.760
I know that god still has a plan for me, so this storm will not
00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:25.563
Be the end of our story."
00:32:25.563 --> 00:32:27.699
And sometimes we need that same reminder.
00:32:27.699 --> 00:32:29.934
Take courage, god's not done writing your story.
00:32:29.934 --> 00:32:32.971
He got you up today, he gave you breath today, he still has a
00:32:32.971 --> 00:32:35.940
Plan and a purpose for you, and no storm can derail that plan or
00:32:35.940 --> 00:32:40.145
That purpose.
00:32:40.145 --> 00:32:41.513
And even in the middle of it, you can choose gratitude,
00:32:41.513 --> 00:32:43.882
Thanking him that he's with you and he's strengthening you, and
00:32:43.882 --> 00:32:46.451
He's using that storm as part of your story.
00:32:46.451 --> 00:32:49.020
Kirk: i love that you're choosing the perspective of
00:32:49.020 --> 00:32:51.456
Gratitude, and i think that really is what it comes down to,
00:32:51.456 --> 00:32:54.559
Because i can have a habit of looking at the glass half empty,
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:59.264
And my wife always looks at the glass as half full, but david in
00:32:59.264 --> 00:33:06.071
The psalms says, no, my cup of blessing is overflowing, and
00:33:06.071 --> 00:33:11.976
That really is the truth if we think of our life from a
00:33:11.976 --> 00:33:17.282
Biblical perspective.
00:33:17.282 --> 00:33:19.050
We have reason to be grateful, why?
00:33:19.050 --> 00:33:20.852
Because just what you said, god is working all things together
00:33:20.852 --> 00:33:23.721
For good for those who love him, even this health challenge, even
00:33:23.721 --> 00:33:27.292
This relational upset, even what's going on with our
00:33:27.292 --> 00:33:32.030
Children, our grandchildren, we can give thanks because god has
00:33:32.030 --> 00:33:35.166
A blessing in it for us.
00:33:35.166 --> 00:33:36.501
He's teaching something, he's orchestrating something that's
00:33:36.501 --> 00:33:39.637
Going to turn out for his glory and for our good, and if we
00:33:39.637 --> 00:33:42.674
Choose to have that perspective, it is a game-changer.
00:33:42.674 --> 00:33:46.511
Kelly: right, absolutely.
00:33:46.511 --> 00:33:48.079
Joy is not the same thing as happiness.
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:50.915
Happiness is tied to our circumstances, but joy
00:33:50.915 --> 00:33:53.351
Is deeper.
00:33:53.351 --> 00:33:54.719
It's rooted in trusting that god has a plan, that he's in control
00:33:54.719 --> 00:33:58.690
Of the details, that ultimately he's working all things for
00:33:58.690 --> 00:34:02.093
Good, and it's the choice to praise him regardless of
00:34:02.093 --> 00:34:04.863
The circumstances.
00:34:04.863 --> 00:34:06.698
And that's why paul could rejoice, and he could be joyful
00:34:06.698 --> 00:34:11.870
Even in the middle of hardship and in prison, because his
00:34:11.870 --> 00:34:15.173
Confidence wasn't in his circumstances, his confidence
00:34:15.173 --> 00:34:18.276
Was in who god is and his calling on his life and his
00:34:18.276 --> 00:34:22.580
Opportunity to share christ with others.
00:34:22.580 --> 00:34:25.884
Kirk: kelly, during the season where we feel the pressure to
00:34:25.884 --> 00:34:29.687
Have the picture-perfect home decorated like this in our
00:34:29.687 --> 00:34:33.358
Living room and the perfect meal for everyone when they come over
00:34:33.358 --> 00:34:36.194
And finding the perfect gifts, does scripture give us any
00:34:36.194 --> 00:34:39.564
Guidance on how to handle that kind of pressure?
00:34:39.564 --> 00:34:43.134
Kelly: you know, anytime we're trying to live up to
00:34:43.134 --> 00:34:44.869
Expectations that god hasn't placed on us, it's a very easy
00:34:44.869 --> 00:34:48.473
Way to lose our joy, and god's expectations don't include
00:34:48.473 --> 00:34:52.310
A perfect home, perfect appearance, or a
00:34:52.310 --> 00:34:54.379
Perfectly-hosted holiday.
00:34:54.379 --> 00:34:56.681
Those are the kinds of details that martha got caught up in.
00:34:56.681 --> 00:34:59.884
God calls us towards something different, and that's
00:34:59.884 --> 00:35:02.253
Perfect love.
00:35:02.253 --> 00:35:04.088
And oftentimes when we feel the pressure to have the perfect
00:35:04.088 --> 00:35:07.692
Home or appearance or holiday, it comes down to this, we're
00:35:07.692 --> 00:35:11.062
Trying to feel good enough.
00:35:11.062 --> 00:35:12.697
And unfortunately, our definition of good enough tends
00:35:12.697 --> 00:35:15.900
To come from comparison.
00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:18.102
But god doesn't call us to measure our worth on comparison,
00:35:18.102 --> 00:35:21.472
He simply calls us to be faithful with what we've
00:35:21.472 --> 00:35:24.375
Been given.
00:35:24.375 --> 00:35:25.743
And so when we let comparison and appearances crowd our focus,
00:35:25.743 --> 00:35:30.648
We miss what's most important.
00:35:30.648 --> 00:35:33.151
When we allow those things to take away the fact that we are
00:35:33.151 --> 00:35:37.589
Reflecting god, it's not a matter of how others perceive
00:35:37.589 --> 00:35:39.924
Us, we miss our calling.
00:35:39.924 --> 00:35:42.160
It's not to convince others of how good we are, it's to show
00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:44.829
Them how good god is.
00:35:44.829 --> 00:35:47.465
Kirk: kelly, what about the heaviness that many of us feel
00:35:47.465 --> 00:35:51.502
When holidays remind us of loved ones that are no longer here or
00:35:51.502 --> 00:35:56.708
A relationship that is not where we have always hoped and dreamed
00:35:56.708 --> 00:36:00.578
That it would be?
00:36:00.578 --> 00:36:02.247
How do we find hope and maintain our joy?
00:36:02.247 --> 00:36:07.151
Kelly: holidays can be difficult for a lot of people.
00:36:07.151 --> 00:36:10.822
And i think it's going back to like what we said before, we
00:36:10.822 --> 00:36:14.826
Need to remember that our joy is first rooted in trusting god.
00:36:14.826 --> 00:36:19.130
It's rooted in trusting that he has a plan, that he's working
00:36:19.130 --> 00:36:23.268
Things for good, that he is in control of all the details.
00:36:23.268 --> 00:36:29.140
And we need to then just make the choice to first rejoice.
00:36:29.140 --> 00:36:37.081
I like to think that paul in that cold, dank prison cell
00:36:37.081 --> 00:36:43.888
Chained to a guard, if someone had asked him, "would you choose
00:36:43.888 --> 00:36:47.792
To be comfortable or uncomfortable?"
00:36:47.792 --> 00:36:50.161
Paul probably would have said, "who wouldn't choose to
00:36:50.161 --> 00:36:52.664
Be comfortable?
00:36:52.664 --> 00:36:54.032
I'd rather have a hot meal, i'd rather have a warm blanket, i'd
00:36:54.032 --> 00:36:56.834
Rather be surrounded by friends, but if this is where god asks me
00:36:56.834 --> 00:37:02.674
To be, this is where i'll be.
00:37:02.674 --> 00:37:04.609
I'll choose to be here, and i'll choose to be here gratefully."
00:37:04.609 --> 00:37:08.379
And sometimes i think we need to look at our own life and our own
00:37:08.379 --> 00:37:11.749
Circumstances and say the same thing.
00:37:11.749 --> 00:37:13.918
Sure, i'd rather this, this, or this.
00:37:13.918 --> 00:37:16.220
I'd rather my relationships are different.
00:37:16.220 --> 00:37:18.589
I'd rather not have these financial issues.
00:37:18.589 --> 00:37:20.325
I'd rather not have these health problems.
00:37:20.325 --> 00:37:22.226
But if this is where god asks me to be, this is where i'll be.
00:37:22.226 --> 00:37:27.198
I'll choose to be here, and i'll choose to be here joyfully.
00:37:27.198 --> 00:37:32.537
Too many of us miss the joy that god has in store, because we
00:37:32.537 --> 00:37:36.107
Think it's going to be found in the solution to our problems,
00:37:36.107 --> 00:37:40.011
And we think that when our problems go away and our
00:37:40.011 --> 00:37:41.612
Circumstances are different, we'll be joyful.
00:37:41.612 --> 00:37:44.349
But paul teaches us that joy and circumstances are two
00:37:44.349 --> 00:37:49.320
Unrelated matters.
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:51.923
Kirk: wow, we need to drill down deeper into this, because this
00:37:51.923 --> 00:37:56.127
Is fantastic.
00:37:56.127 --> 00:37:57.495
After the break, kelly's gonna share more about finding
00:37:57.495 --> 00:37:59.864
Stillness and meaning in the season's many activities and
00:37:59.864 --> 00:38:02.934
Then share some tips on how we can stay healthy and fit during
00:38:02.934 --> 00:38:07.105
The holidays, so don't go away.
00:38:07.105 --> 00:38:09.107
[music]
00:38:09.107 --> 00:38:14.004
[music]
00:38:14.004 --> 00:38:14.982
[music]
00:38:15.316 --> 00:38:19.153
Kirk: we're back with kelly wenner, sharing practical
00:38:21.856 --> 00:38:23.991
Insights to help us focus on the true meaning of christmas.
00:38:23.991 --> 00:38:28.562
I wonder during the season when we're out shopping, and we're
00:38:28.562 --> 00:38:33.334
Thinking of the meal and all of the friends who are gonna come
00:38:33.334 --> 00:38:35.469
Over, if we're miscategorizing some of the distractions,
00:38:35.469 --> 00:38:41.108
Because the truth is, friends are not a distraction.
00:38:41.108 --> 00:38:44.278
A great meal for my family is not a distraction.
00:38:44.278 --> 00:38:47.214
For me, that is a big focus of what the season is really
00:38:47.214 --> 00:38:51.585
All about.
00:38:51.585 --> 00:38:52.953
So, buying gifts, while it can be exhausting, because there's
00:38:52.953 --> 00:38:56.390
So many people in our family and you want just the right gift,
00:38:56.390 --> 00:38:59.794
I don't really think that that is a distraction.
00:38:59.794 --> 00:39:02.630
We want to focus on the birth of christ, the reason for the
00:39:02.630 --> 00:39:05.633
Season, but i think that there are maybe multiple reasons, and
00:39:05.633 --> 00:39:09.470
That is to give gifts to one another and to be grateful and
00:39:09.470 --> 00:39:12.306
To be joyful, not only for my salvation, but all the things
00:39:12.306 --> 00:39:15.242
That come with it, like my family and friends.
00:39:15.242 --> 00:39:19.680
But having said that, it can be exhausting to the point where
00:39:19.680 --> 00:39:22.950
You're just looking forward for the holidays to be over.
00:39:22.950 --> 00:39:26.220
So, what are some practical steps that people can take to
00:39:26.220 --> 00:39:29.990
Maintain joy during christmas?
00:39:29.990 --> 00:39:33.360
Kelly: i think this should be easy to remember.
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:36.163
Joy can be found in the acronym, joy, j-o-y.
00:39:36.163 --> 00:39:41.268
Jesus first and others before yourself.
00:39:41.268 --> 00:39:44.305
In god's kingdom, joy is found by following him and
00:39:44.305 --> 00:39:48.876
Serving others.
00:39:48.876 --> 00:39:50.411
So let's start with the j for jesus.
00:39:50.411 --> 00:39:53.547
Make sure that the stress and the busyness of the holidays is
00:39:53.547 --> 00:39:57.718
Not distracting you from his presence or diminishing your
00:39:57.718 --> 00:40:01.956
Gratitude for his blessings.
00:40:01.956 --> 00:40:04.358
Prioritize your time with him.
00:40:04.358 --> 00:40:06.494
Simplify as much as possible.
00:40:06.494 --> 00:40:08.462
Notice if the holiday is becoming too commercial, and if
00:40:08.462 --> 00:40:10.931
It is, scale back.
00:40:10.931 --> 00:40:12.533
Give yourself enough time to be still and hear his voice.
00:40:12.533 --> 00:40:17.338
It's also a really good time of year to look back and reflect,
00:40:17.338 --> 00:40:21.041
Reflect on this past year.
00:40:21.041 --> 00:40:23.244
Maybe you faced financial problems or health issues or
00:40:23.244 --> 00:40:27.815
Family issues.
00:40:27.815 --> 00:40:29.783
How has god carried you through?
00:40:29.783 --> 00:40:31.819
Can you look back and see his hand at work?
00:40:31.819 --> 00:40:35.222
Because there's a connection between faith, hope, and joy.
00:40:35.222 --> 00:40:39.793
So maybe do a little heart check.
00:40:39.793 --> 00:40:41.896
Have some of your problems caused you to doubt god?
00:40:41.896 --> 00:40:45.766
And maybe you wouldn't say that you are doubting god, his
00:40:45.766 --> 00:40:48.769
Existence, but if you look carefully, maybe you've been
00:40:48.769 --> 00:40:51.839
Doubting that he cares, that he sees, that he's in control of
00:40:51.839 --> 00:40:56.010
The details, because often it's the heart of the unsure who
00:40:56.010 --> 00:41:00.681
Struggles most with joy.
00:41:00.681 --> 00:41:03.217
And then next, put others before yourself.
00:41:03.217 --> 00:41:05.886
And jesus, of course set the ultimate example for this.
00:41:05.886 --> 00:41:09.123
His whole life in ministry was about serving others.
00:41:09.123 --> 00:41:12.426
The night before he was betrayed and crucified, what did he do?
00:41:12.426 --> 00:41:16.096
He washed his disciples' feet, and he told us to go do
00:41:16.096 --> 00:41:19.033
The same.
00:41:19.033 --> 00:41:20.367
Now, this doesn't mean we're literally called to wash feet,
00:41:20.367 --> 00:41:23.604
But maybe consider in your everyday life, what are everyday
00:41:23.604 --> 00:41:28.342
Examples that would be the equivalent to that?
00:41:28.342 --> 00:41:30.945
Do you sometimes find yourself unwilling to do something that
00:41:30.945 --> 00:41:34.248
Jesus would do if he was in your shoes?
00:41:34.248 --> 00:41:37.518
Because jesus calls us to love our enemies.
00:41:37.518 --> 00:41:40.721
And sometimes enemies might sound like a strong word, so we
00:41:40.721 --> 00:41:43.190
Might not feel like we have any enemies.
00:41:43.190 --> 00:41:45.092
But what if we just let that word include the people you
00:41:45.092 --> 00:41:48.462
Struggle to love?
00:41:48.462 --> 00:41:50.331
So these are the people that rub you the wrong way, they're the
00:41:50.331 --> 00:41:52.666
People that irritate you, these are the people with vastly
00:41:52.666 --> 00:41:55.235
Different opinions than you, someone that maybe you would
00:41:55.235 --> 00:41:58.505
Otherwise just avoid, and so maybe this holiday season, god
00:41:58.505 --> 00:42:02.209
Is asking you or calling you to love and to serve those people,
00:42:02.209 --> 00:42:07.748
Because that's what jesus would do, and that's the example
00:42:07.748 --> 00:42:10.317
He set.
00:42:10.317 --> 00:42:11.685
Kirk: yeah, this is really good.
00:42:11.685 --> 00:42:13.020
And how about y, others before yourself.
00:42:13.020 --> 00:42:15.456
Kelly: others before yourself, and we're--you're not gonna
00:42:15.456 --> 00:42:18.292
Find joy if you get the order reversed, and that's what we
00:42:18.292 --> 00:42:21.462
Often do.
00:42:21.462 --> 00:42:22.830
We focus on our own problems, our own needs, our own
00:42:22.830 --> 00:42:25.833
Expectations, and when life gets busy, we put jesus to the
00:42:25.833 --> 00:42:29.236
Back burner.
00:42:29.236 --> 00:42:30.571
But yoj, y-o-j, yourself, others, jesus doesn't bring joy.
00:42:30.571 --> 00:42:35.542
For joy it has to be jesus first and others before yourself.
00:42:35.542 --> 00:42:40.814
Kirk: switching gears for a moment, one of the things that
00:42:40.814 --> 00:42:44.084
Stresses many people out during the holidays is how much weight
00:42:44.084 --> 00:42:46.620
They know they're gonna gain, the unwanted extra pounds
00:42:46.620 --> 00:42:49.723
Because of all of the, you know, all of the coffee cake and all
00:42:49.723 --> 00:42:54.161
Of the delicious food.
00:42:54.161 --> 00:42:55.763
You also have soulstrength fit, which is a faith-based
00:42:55.763 --> 00:43:00.768
Fitness ministry.
00:43:00.768 --> 00:43:02.302
What are some practical tips people can do to stay healthy
00:43:02.302 --> 00:43:04.371
And fit during the holiday season?
00:43:04.371 --> 00:43:07.007
Kelly: okay, i think if i were to give advice on three
00:43:07.007 --> 00:43:10.944
Mindsets, it's to take a healthy approach towards the holidays.
00:43:10.944 --> 00:43:14.548
It would be first to prioritize connection, second, to plan
00:43:14.548 --> 00:43:18.452
Ahead, and third, to put consistency above perfection.
00:43:18.452 --> 00:43:23.524
So, let's start with prioritize connection.
00:43:23.524 --> 00:43:27.227
Approach the holiday season as jesus would.
00:43:27.227 --> 00:43:30.731
And that means that our biggest focus is on connecting
00:43:30.731 --> 00:43:33.834
With others.
00:43:33.834 --> 00:43:35.202
To be sure, food plays a major role in the holidays.
00:43:35.202 --> 00:43:38.639
It's not just about the wonderful food we're sharing
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:40.941
With our loved ones, but food also has nostalgia, and it
00:43:40.941 --> 00:43:45.579
Brings back memories and traditions.
00:43:45.579 --> 00:43:49.249
So, enjoy food with your loved ones.
00:43:49.249 --> 00:43:52.886
It's not a time for fear and guilt, but approach every
00:43:52.886 --> 00:43:56.824
Gathering and every celebration as jesus would, with gratitude,
00:43:56.824 --> 00:44:01.795
With your main focus on connecting with others,
00:44:01.795 --> 00:44:05.365
And never with overconsumption or excess.
00:44:05.365 --> 00:44:08.902
So, sure, have a glass of wine or a slice of pie with your
00:44:08.902 --> 00:44:13.040
Family, but don't have six.
00:44:13.040 --> 00:44:15.042
It's about balance, because the christian life is one of joy
00:44:15.042 --> 00:44:18.712
And self-discipline.
00:44:18.712 --> 00:44:21.014
So, we're gonna approach it just as jesus would.
00:44:21.014 --> 00:44:23.951
Let's start there.
00:44:23.951 --> 00:44:25.452
Next, plan ahead.
00:44:25.452 --> 00:44:27.921
As we've said, this is a very busy time of year.
00:44:27.921 --> 00:44:31.492
And fitness, like our faith, and when i say our faith, i really
00:44:31.492 --> 00:44:35.129
Mean the spiritual disciplines, like prayer, time in god's word.
00:44:35.129 --> 00:44:38.766
Fitness and faith are two things that are first to go when our
00:44:38.766 --> 00:44:43.403
Schedules get busy and chaotic.
00:44:43.403 --> 00:44:45.472
Two things that can keep us grounded and focused and calm.
00:44:45.472 --> 00:44:49.710
These are the things that get pushed to the back burner.
00:44:49.710 --> 00:44:53.547
Kirk: what are some of those things?
00:44:53.547 --> 00:44:56.817
Kelly: exercise, time with god, these are the things that get
00:44:56.817 --> 00:44:59.319
Pushed to the back burner, and so i think we've really got to
00:44:59.319 --> 00:45:02.322
Look at our schedules.
00:45:02.322 --> 00:45:04.057
Evaluate your screen time maybe.
00:45:04.057 --> 00:45:05.392
Advent could be a beautiful time to fast from social media or tv
00:45:05.392 --> 00:45:09.963
And literally block out in your schedule time blocks for both
00:45:09.963 --> 00:45:14.768
Time with god and exercise.
00:45:14.768 --> 00:45:17.204
Even if they're brief, you have to decide ahead of time that you
00:45:17.204 --> 00:45:21.408
Are making the commitment to stay physically and spiritually
00:45:21.408 --> 00:45:25.212
Healthy, even during this period.
00:45:25.212 --> 00:45:28.081
So, plan ahead and put it in your schedule.
00:45:28.081 --> 00:45:29.616
I always suggest doing them both first thing in the morning.
00:45:29.616 --> 00:45:33.420
I know you said you enjoy your early morning time with the
00:45:33.420 --> 00:45:36.523
Lord, having your coffee before others are awake.
00:45:36.523 --> 00:45:39.626
Spend your first moments of the day with him.
00:45:39.626 --> 00:45:41.595
Tithe your first moments of the day to him.
00:45:41.595 --> 00:45:44.364
Give your day to him.
00:45:44.364 --> 00:45:45.799
And then, if possible, follow up with exercise, because if you've
00:45:45.799 --> 00:45:50.437
Taken care of your spirit and your body first thing, you've
00:45:50.437 --> 00:45:53.073
Already set your day up for success.
00:45:53.073 --> 00:45:56.009
And finally, let's focus on putting consistency
00:45:56.009 --> 00:46:00.414
Above perfection.
00:46:00.414 --> 00:46:02.216
So i think this is something that can keep so many people
00:46:02.216 --> 00:46:06.486
Stuck in both fitness as well as their spiritual growth, and
00:46:06.486 --> 00:46:11.291
That's the mindset of all or nothing.
00:46:11.291 --> 00:46:15.195
And it's very tempting to think if i can't do it perfectly, or i
00:46:15.195 --> 00:46:19.466
Can't do it as planned, i'm not gonna do it at all.
00:46:19.466 --> 00:46:21.869
Kirk: yeah, i fell off the wagon, so i might as well.
00:46:21.869 --> 00:46:23.470
Kelly: i may as well not even do it.
00:46:23.470 --> 00:46:24.972
I usually have 20 minutes for bible study.
00:46:24.972 --> 00:46:27.040
The morning got away from me, i only have five.
00:46:27.040 --> 00:46:29.443
Well, don't throw those five minutes away, give them to god.
00:46:29.443 --> 00:46:32.145
Give them to god in prayer, and he'll bless it.
00:46:32.145 --> 00:46:34.681
I encourage people, when life gets busy and chaotic to view
00:46:34.681 --> 00:46:39.720
The small amounts of time that you do have to give, like the
00:46:39.720 --> 00:46:43.223
Widow's offering.
00:46:43.223 --> 00:46:45.158
You trust that with a willing heart, god can take what you're
00:46:45.158 --> 00:46:50.364
Giving, and he can bless even the smallest amount.
00:46:50.364 --> 00:46:53.934
So, lord, i don't have a lot of time today for my bible study to
00:46:53.934 --> 00:46:57.571
Sit with you in prayer.
00:46:57.571 --> 00:46:58.939
Can you take the time i do have and bless it?
00:46:58.939 --> 00:47:01.675
God, i don't have much time today for exercise, but i'm
00:47:01.675 --> 00:47:05.812
Committed to honoring my temple.
00:47:05.812 --> 00:47:07.814
Can you bless my efforts and the time that i am committing
00:47:07.814 --> 00:47:11.018
To this?
00:47:11.018 --> 00:47:12.386
So that's what consistency above perfection looks like.
00:47:12.386 --> 00:47:15.889
You give god what you have with a willing heart, and you trust
00:47:15.889 --> 00:47:20.227
That he can bless and multiply even the smallest offerings.
00:47:20.227 --> 00:47:25.098
So, stay with it, give the small amounts you have, even when life
00:47:25.098 --> 00:47:29.169
Is busy, and approach the holiday season just as
00:47:29.169 --> 00:47:33.106
Jesus would.
00:47:33.106 --> 00:47:34.508
Kirk: i love this, this is so practical, it's
00:47:34.508 --> 00:47:36.843
So inspirational.
00:47:36.843 --> 00:47:38.178
Thank you for writing this, and merry christmas.
00:47:38.178 --> 00:47:40.180
Kelly: merry christmas.
00:47:40.180 --> 00:47:41.548
Thank you for having me.
00:47:41.548 --> 00:47:42.883
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:47:42.883 --> 00:47:45.886
[music]
00:47:45.886 --> 00:47:51.005
[music]
00:47:51.005 --> 00:47:51.928
[music]
00:47:52.262 --> 00:47:56.099
Kirk: who was saint nicholas of myra?
00:47:58.568 --> 00:48:00.303
And how did he become the man in the red suit?
00:48:00.303 --> 00:48:03.340
And how can we celebrate santa while keeping our focus on joy,
00:48:03.340 --> 00:48:07.610
Gratitude, and health?
00:48:07.610 --> 00:48:09.479
I loved talking with adam english and kelly wenner about
00:48:09.479 --> 00:48:12.716
All of this from faith and generosity to simple ways to
00:48:12.716 --> 00:48:16.519
Stay joyful and grounded during the holidays.
00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:19.823
Here's our takeaways.
00:48:19.823 --> 00:48:21.291
Tradition and christianity, we can embrace both.
00:48:21.291 --> 00:48:25.095
Adam shared the story of saint nicholas, the real man behind
00:48:25.095 --> 00:48:29.432
Santa claus.
00:48:29.432 --> 00:48:30.767
Though he was surrounded by legend, nicholas was a man of
00:48:30.767 --> 00:48:34.270
Faith known for his courage and generosity.
00:48:34.270 --> 00:48:37.741
His life reminds us that christmas traditions don't have
00:48:37.741 --> 00:48:41.311
To compete with our faith, they can celebrate it.
00:48:41.311 --> 00:48:44.314
We can enjoy the lights and the gifts while keeping our focus
00:48:44.314 --> 00:48:47.984
On christ.
00:48:47.984 --> 00:48:49.619
Give anonymously.
00:48:49.619 --> 00:48:51.955
Nicholas gave in secret, using his inheritance to bless others
00:48:51.955 --> 00:48:56.226
Without recognition for himself, and we can follow his lead.
00:48:56.226 --> 00:49:00.830
We can give quietly and reflect the heart of christ.
00:49:00.830 --> 00:49:04.768
Our generosity may be the reminder someone needs that god
00:49:04.768 --> 00:49:08.338
Sees them and loves them.
00:49:08.338 --> 00:49:11.174
Choose gratitude.
00:49:11.174 --> 00:49:13.443
Kelly begins her devotions with psalm 100, "enter his gates
00:49:13.443 --> 00:49:17.881
With thanksgiving."
00:49:17.881 --> 00:49:19.516
Gratitude, she said, is the doorway into god's presence, and
00:49:19.516 --> 00:49:23.253
Paul's command to rejoice in the lord always isn't about a
00:49:23.253 --> 00:49:27.524
Feeling, it's about a choice.
00:49:27.524 --> 00:49:30.193
Fear blocks gratitude, but trust restores joy.
00:49:30.193 --> 00:49:35.031
Kelly's tip each morning, thank god for three specific things
00:49:35.031 --> 00:49:39.836
From the past day.
00:49:39.836 --> 00:49:41.171
It's simple and powerful.
00:49:41.171 --> 00:49:44.240
Prioritize faith and fitness.
00:49:44.240 --> 00:49:46.876
As kelly said, the joy of the season can get buried under
00:49:46.876 --> 00:49:50.880
The busyness.
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:52.248
Her rule for the holidays, joy, j-o-y, jesus first, others
00:49:52.248 --> 00:49:58.088
Before yourself.
00:49:58.088 --> 00:50:00.123
Connect, focus on people, not perfection.
00:50:00.123 --> 00:50:04.094
Plan, start mornings with god, then move your body.
00:50:04.094 --> 00:50:08.765
Stay consistent.
00:50:08.765 --> 00:50:10.834
Small faithful habits matter most.
00:50:10.834 --> 00:50:13.837
And when we do this, we discover the true joy of the season,
00:50:13.837 --> 00:50:17.640
Faith, gratitude, and peace that lasts.
00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:22.378
Well, that's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:50:22.378 --> 00:50:24.481
Thank you for watching, and if you've enjoyed the show, don't
00:50:24.481 --> 00:50:27.417
Forget to set your dvr so you never miss an episode.
00:50:27.417 --> 00:50:30.553
And of course, you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:50:30.553 --> 00:50:33.623
Searching for takeaways on the tbn+ app or by visiting the kirk
00:50:33.623 --> 00:50:38.595
Cameron on tbn youtube channel.
00:50:38.595 --> 00:50:40.964
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:50:40.964 --> 00:50:44.667
[music]
00:50:44.667 --> 00:50:44.667

Adam English & Kelly Wenner: Learning to Give and Reflect the Joys of Christmas | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

December 8, 2025 | 52:42

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