Billy Hallowell & Angie Howell: Believing in Miracles | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

July 28, 2025 | 55:2

Kirk Cameron is joined by journalist Billy Hallowell to discuss his documentary exploring the validity of miracles and author Angie Howell to share her personal miracle story.

#Miracles #Supernatural #Author #Faith #Science #Movies/Film #Testimony #PersonalStory

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Billy Hallowell & Angie Howell: Believing in Miracles | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | July 28, 2025

Kirk cameron: do you believe in miracles?
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One description of a miracle is a surprising event that is not
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Explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore
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Considered to be the work of a divine agency.
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In light of this definition, have you ever experienced
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A miracle?
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We're gonna talk with journalist billy hallowell on his recent
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Documentary about miracles, and then author angie howell,
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Sharing her personal testimony of a miracle in her life.
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Let's get to it right now on "takeaways."
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Billy hallowell: i went into this thinking, "this will help
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Other people.
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This will be great for other people."
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And i left it completely transformed in how i think.
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It actually rocked and shook and changed my faith.
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Angie howell: god doesn't just help those who are faithful
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To him.
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God finds those who are in the middle of the mess, the misfits,
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The broken, and he comes right in the middle of the messes that
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We create and and he's there with us.
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Kirk: it's so great to have back cbn news investigative
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Journalist, author, and podcaster billy hallowell he's
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The host of a new documentary called "investigating the
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Supernatural: miracles," which highlights the real life
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Accounts of divine intervention as told by those who were healed
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And were examined through groundbreaking
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Scientific analysis.
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The film shines light on the mysteries of the miraculous,
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Blending faith and science in a journey of discovery.
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Billy, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
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Billy: thanks for having me.
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Kirk: hey, we've been friends for a while, and you're usually
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The one asking me questions about a movie or a documentary
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Or a book.
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Billy: the tables are totally turned right now.
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Kirk: they are, and i'm so excited, because this is a topic
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So many people are interested in.
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You know, "this miraculous thing happened to my aunt or to my
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Uncle, or it happened in history," and we read about
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Miracles in the bible, but we question if those things still
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Happen today.
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So, let's start.
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What is a miracle, by definition?
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Billy: i love that question.
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You know, a miracle is something that happens that we don't have
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An explanation for in the natural, right?
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And a lot of times we think of the big miracles, the healings,
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Which we're gonna talk about today, those sorts of things.
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But we all have things that have happened to us that might be
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Smaller things.
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Like, for instance, i was driving in a car, had a
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Diagnosis for my daughter of scoliosis that really upset me,
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And i was praying to god.
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And i'm like, "god, just give me a sign that it's gonna be okay."
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And i was really crying out.
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I was struggling.
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And i live in new york, you know, there's not a lot of
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Trucks with bible verses on the back of them.
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I look up, and in that moment there was a truck in front of me
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With a bible verse that completely comforted me and told
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Me in that moment, it's gonna be okay.
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Now for me, i would say that's a mini-miracle, right?
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So, it's a broad definition, but it's something we can't explain.
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Kirk: so, i've heard people talk about stuff like that, and they
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Say, "oh, it's a god wink."
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They like to call it, you know, like one of those little winky
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Emojis from god, "here's my bible verse for you."
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But a healing with no medical explanation for this, that seems
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To be next-level.
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You know, raising somebody from the dead.
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In fact, jesus did that.
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He would heal people of diseases, and he would raise
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People from the dead, and that would authenticate his identity
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And his authority as the messiah.
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Billy: yeah, when i think of a miracle, that's--i think of
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Lazarus being raised from the dead.
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Those are the big miracles.
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Those are the ones that we deal with in our documentary.
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Kirk: how does science and the medical industry explain
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The unexplainable?
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Billy: you know, they can't.
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And i think you'll often see a lot of these doctors who are not
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Believers, right, they'll sort of throw their hands up and say,
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"well, we don't really know what happened."
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And they're okay with that.
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But for me, as an investigative journalist, right, i'm curious.
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I want to try to get as close as i can, because you can never
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100% prove a miracle, right?
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But you can get really close.
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You can get 98%, 99% of the way there, and you can say, "we have
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No other explanation for this."
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But with science now, you have people who can say, "well,
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Statistically, there's a 0% chance this person
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Could survive."
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If you're dead for 40 minutes and you're brought back, that's
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A miracle.
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We really don't have an explanation.
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So, science does not have a way to really explain these things,
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Which i find very compelling.
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Now, you can use the science to say, again, statistically, this
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Doesn't make sense.
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So what is going on?
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Kirk: yeah, "the odds that this is--that this would happen are
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So small that we have to say we don't know.
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But we don't want to call it a miracle," secular--a secular
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Person would say, "because we don't want to, like, delve into
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The crazy world of the supernatural and all that kind
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Of stuff."
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Now that you've made the documentary, do you personally
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Believe that miracles happen?
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Billy: absolutely.
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I will tell you, i went into this thinking, "this will help
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Other people.
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This will be great for other people."
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And i left it completely transformed in how i think.
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It actually rocked and shook and changed my faith and really
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Positioned the way i see miracles.
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I think god absolutely does work still in these incredible ways,
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But we have to be discerning in how we approach each
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Individual case.
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Kirk: yeah, so can you unpack that a little bit?
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What was your attitude about miracles prior to
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This documentary?
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Billy: i believed in my mind, and i would have said i believed
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It in my heart too, miracles are possible, they happen, i see
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Them in scripture, i've heard stories of people who have
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Gotten out of wheelchairs, and i would say, i believe that's
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Possible, i believe that could happen.
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But when i was confronted with people and sat across from
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People who had had these miracles happen and i spent time
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Looking at the evidence, i went in skeptically on a lot of
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These stories.
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Like, can we really prove that this person, what they're saying
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Is true?
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And i ended up walking away feeling like not only can it be
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Proven, but i now have to reassess for myself, how do i
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Approach miracles?
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Do i really believe them in my heart?
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Do i believe that god can and will sometimes do these things?
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And so, that was a little convicting, because in
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Particular, the fight that people had to get their miracle,
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Some people fought for 10 years to get their miracle, right?
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They kept going to prayer meeting after prayer meeting.
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I was like, would i do that?
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Like, going into this documentary, would i have had
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That persistence?
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And i think the answer is no.
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I would have given up probably, and i would have said,
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"okay, god."
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Kirk: "let your will be done."
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Billy: "let your will be done," which i think you have to have
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An element of that, but you have to believe and trust
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And persevere.
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And i don't think i had that going into this.
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Kirk: yeah, that's a really good question.
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Is the god that i pray to, do i think of him as a god
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Of miracles?
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Or do i think of him as an all-wise god who's just--he's
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Gonna do what he's gonna do and miracles really shouldn't
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Dominate my thinking, right?
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Because i've seen it, i've seen it be detrimental on both sides,
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Where some people who are involved in faith healing
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Circles are told that if they don't have enough faith, they
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Won't get the miracle that they could have if they just really
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Believed, and that has destroyed some people's faiths.
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And i think of good friends like joni eareckson tada and others
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Who would love to be out of her wheelchair.
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And i can't think of anyone in the world who has more
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Wholehearted faith than joni eareckson tada.
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Billy: you're speaking about a tension.
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The tension you're speaking about which i had to deal with,
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The trust that a miracle is possible, but the trust also
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That you might not get the miracle on this side of heaven,
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But that you have to believe that god's sovereignty is what
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Matters most.
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You have to hold both of those things together, right?
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And that's tough for people.
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That's really difficult.
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And it was tough for me, and i walked away, again, very
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Convicted and challenged on how i've been looking at it.
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Kirk: does it matter if miracles exist?
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And if it actually has meaning, like, do you think it's because
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God's wanting to tell that person something?
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Or is it just something god does every once in a while because
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He's decided to do it for whatever reason?
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Or is it like, "no, this is a message that i want you to
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Understand from me"?
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Billy: oh, wow, i think there's so much there.
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I think we, first of all, when you're persisting in a miracle
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And believing for it and you're not getting it, what are you
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Learning along the way?
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What is god showing you in that trust of him?
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'cause when we die to self, we have to trust him.
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And so, that actually was very convicting to me, because i
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Thought, well, i never really think about that.
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I think i want this end result.
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I don't think about the journey.
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And i may not get there, i may not get that result, but i don't
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Think about the journey there.
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There's that, but there's so many other elements of that,
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Because i think the miracle itself that you're fighting for,
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It's teaching you about yourself--not only yourself,
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But about the lord, right?
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There's a lesson there, a deeper lesson there.
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Kirk: yeah, and for me, i think of job, and i'm thinking, think
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Of all the miracles job was-- would have prayed for.
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"oh lord, you know, make these boils go away."
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"oh lord, you know, go find my enemies who burned my house down
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And took away my whole family."
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And jesus, when he was in the garden of gethsemane, "lord, if
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There's any way that this can pass from me, but not my will,
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But your will be done."
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Billy: that's the key.
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Kirk: i think, boy, i'm not sure how to think about my miracle
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And fighting for my miracle when really the miracle to me is me
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Submitting my will to the will of god and having his purposes
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Be accomplished, whether i'm stripped of my family and my
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Health and crucified or if i'm healed and i'm back up out of
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My wheelchair.
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Billy: a hundred percent.
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Can i tell you the thing that haunted me a little bit in this
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On the other side of this?
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If we tell people that miracles don't happen anymore and that's
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Our narrative, they don't happen, god doesn't work that
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Way anymore, this doesn't happen, is it possible, and i
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Want to be careful how i say this, because again, you may not
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Get the miracle.
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Is it possible that there are people, i'm just gonna pose the
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Question, that could have had a healing or might have gotten it
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If they were conditioned to believe that it were
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Possible still?
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And are you possibly trapping people or leaving them behind by
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Not believing in the possibility?
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That haunted me a little bit at the end of this.
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Kirk: yeah, i'm thinking of james chapter 1 or 2, something
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Like that, where it says, "you don't have because you
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Don't ask.
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And you don't ask because you're asking with the wrong reasons."
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But it--could it be that some people don't ask for a miracle
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Because--i mean, they don't get a miracle because they don't ask
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For one?
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Billy: that's the thing.
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I mean, that's the haunting thing.
00:10:24.914 --> 00:10:26.248
And if we're walking around telling people they shouldn't
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Ask for one or even believe it, now, again, with that healthy
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Condition of "your will, god."
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Kirk: why do you think it's so hard for some people to believe
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In miracles?
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Billy: i think it's become harder because we live in a
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Country where we have so much, right?
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When you're sick, and this is a good thing, you can go get
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Medicine, right?
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If you live in a country where there's no surgery, no medicine,
00:10:45.367 --> 00:10:47.336
No anything, you better believe you're believing a lot more in
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Miracles because you're gonna have to.
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You've got nothing else, right?
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So, i think we've been conditioned in the west to be
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A--and again, it's not always bad.
00:10:55.611 --> 00:10:57.379
Very in the material, we're very stuck in the here and now, and
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It prevents us, i think, from seeing beyond that or being even
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Willing to entertain it.
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Kirk: you know why i think some people struggle with believing
00:11:04.754 --> 00:11:08.858
In miracles?
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Because there's so many charlatans out there who are
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Alleging miracle work, and it just smacks of fraud, that
00:11:15.498 --> 00:11:23.139
Somehow they--i believe they profit off of things like this.
00:11:23.139 --> 00:11:27.276
And if we investigate those types of ministries, i think we
00:11:27.276 --> 00:11:30.079
Can find scores of them.
00:11:30.079 --> 00:11:33.783
Billy: it hurts people's faith.
00:11:33.783 --> 00:11:35.117
Kirk: i think that causes a lot of struggle in believing
00:11:35.117 --> 00:11:37.486
In miracles.
00:11:37.486 --> 00:11:38.821
Billy: i agree, i think it hurts people's faith when that
00:11:38.821 --> 00:11:40.356
Happens, and nobody should be out there doing that.
00:11:40.356 --> 00:11:42.792
You have to have a healthy balance on that trust, and i
00:11:42.792 --> 00:11:45.127
Think that's part of the death to self and it's part of the
00:11:45.127 --> 00:11:47.396
Human condition of trying to get there.
00:11:47.396 --> 00:11:49.431
And so, this project for me brought me there.
00:11:49.431 --> 00:11:52.468
Kirk: we're gonna talk more with billy about his journey in the
00:11:52.468 --> 00:11:55.037
Making of this documentary on miracles, and later in the
00:11:55.037 --> 00:11:58.040
Program angie howell will share her personal story of a miracle
00:11:58.040 --> 00:12:02.778
Involving her daughter, so don't go away.
00:12:02.778 --> 00:12:05.514
Angie: there's no insulation around her nerves in her brain
00:12:05.514 --> 00:12:08.784
Or throughout her body.
00:12:08.784 --> 00:12:10.486
So, it was very clear very quickly that she would not
00:12:10.486 --> 00:12:15.391
Survive for too long.
00:12:15.391 --> 00:12:23.004
Survive for too long.
00:12:23.004 --> 00:12:26.736
Kirk: we're back with investigative journalist and
00:12:30.807 --> 00:12:32.642
Author billy hallowell.
00:12:32.642 --> 00:12:34.344
So, billy, i know that being involved in a project where you
00:12:34.344 --> 00:12:38.448
Really throw your whole heart and soul into making a movie, it
00:12:38.448 --> 00:12:43.320
Can really change you.
00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:44.654
So, how did traveling the country, talking to people who
00:12:44.654 --> 00:12:47.557
Have been healed and investigating miracles
00:12:47.557 --> 00:12:50.026
Change you?
00:12:50.026 --> 00:12:51.394
Billy: it forced me to take a deep look at my faith and where
00:12:51.394 --> 00:12:54.865
Was it lacking?
00:12:54.865 --> 00:12:56.233
You know, you think, oh, my faith is great, i'm in a great
00:12:56.233 --> 00:12:58.201
Place, i'm in a great position.
00:12:58.201 --> 00:12:59.536
I'll tell you, the spiritual warfare, and i don't use that
00:12:59.536 --> 00:13:02.038
Term very often, around this project was intense.
00:13:02.038 --> 00:13:06.009
I felt a lot of pressure around it, and i think it was a
00:13:06.009 --> 00:13:08.411
Refining in some ways of really just thinking through, do i
00:13:08.411 --> 00:13:11.882
Believe the things that i've claimed i believe?
00:13:11.882 --> 00:13:13.783
And do i really believe them in my heart?
00:13:13.783 --> 00:13:16.086
And so, i've walked away still processing that.
00:13:16.086 --> 00:13:18.421
As we're sitting here talking about it, i'm like, man, this
00:13:18.421 --> 00:13:20.657
Is--and we had a miracle actually in our family as this
00:13:20.657 --> 00:13:23.960
Was going on that was just incredible with my daughter and
00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:26.997
Her scoliosis.
00:13:26.997 --> 00:13:28.365
And so, even going through that and being like, wow, god.
00:13:28.365 --> 00:13:30.901
I mean, this is--it's just crazy the way that you think
00:13:30.901 --> 00:13:34.004
You're helping other people and he sometimes is helping you.
00:13:34.004 --> 00:13:37.540
Kirk: tell us about dr. chauncey crandall, cardiologist and
00:13:37.540 --> 00:13:41.278
Internist, author of "raising the dead," and how he prays for
00:13:41.278 --> 00:13:45.682
His patients.
00:13:45.682 --> 00:13:47.050
Billy: okay, so dr. crandall is a well respected doctor down
00:13:47.050 --> 00:13:50.520
In florida.
00:13:50.520 --> 00:13:51.888
His story is complicated, okay?
00:13:51.888 --> 00:13:54.291
He had a son, one of his twins, who died of leukemia.
00:13:54.291 --> 00:13:57.794
And he fought for a miracle for this son, and we cover this in
00:13:57.794 --> 00:14:00.130
The film in depth, because we also cover, hey, not every
00:14:00.130 --> 00:14:02.599
Miracle happens, right?
00:14:02.599 --> 00:14:03.934
And what do you do with that?
00:14:03.934 --> 00:14:05.268
He fought for this son, they went to every prayer meeting
00:14:05.268 --> 00:14:06.736
They could, they did everything they could, he ends up
00:14:06.736 --> 00:14:08.571
Passing away.
00:14:08.571 --> 00:14:10.006
Now, dr. crandall made a decision after that.
00:14:10.006 --> 00:14:12.776
He could have been angry at god, or he could have gone all in on
00:14:12.776 --> 00:14:15.612
Believing god for miracles.
00:14:15.612 --> 00:14:17.047
A lot of people would be angry after they lose their child.
00:14:17.047 --> 00:14:19.349
He went all in on miracles, and where his story intersects with
00:14:19.349 --> 00:14:22.886
Another person, and this is the craziest story out of all of
00:14:22.886 --> 00:14:26.389
Them in this documentary, a man who was dead for 40 minutes.
00:14:26.389 --> 00:14:30.293
Dr. crandall now is working at the hospital.
00:14:30.293 --> 00:14:32.128
He's the emergency room doctor.
00:14:32.128 --> 00:14:33.496
This is after the death of his son.
00:14:33.496 --> 00:14:35.231
This man comes in, jeff markin, has a heart attack in the
00:14:35.231 --> 00:14:38.868
Hospital, dies.
00:14:38.868 --> 00:14:40.203
They try to revive him for 40 minutes to no avail.
00:14:40.203 --> 00:14:44.107
They pronounce him dead.
00:14:44.107 --> 00:14:45.442
Jeff markin has died.
00:14:45.442 --> 00:14:46.776
Dr. crandall walks out of the room.
00:14:46.776 --> 00:14:49.412
He's in the hallway, and he feels god say to him, "go back
00:14:49.412 --> 00:14:52.949
And pray for that man."
00:14:52.949 --> 00:14:54.818
And he's thinking, "that's ridiculous.
00:14:54.818 --> 00:14:56.419
I'm not, you know, i'm a christian, but i'm not going
00:14:56.419 --> 00:14:57.921
Back in and praying for this guy."
00:14:57.921 --> 00:14:59.255
He feels god prompt him again, "go back and pray for that man."
00:14:59.255 --> 00:15:02.792
So, he walks back in.
00:15:02.792 --> 00:15:04.127
They're preparing the body for the morgue, okay?
00:15:04.127 --> 00:15:06.529
And he says to the nurse, "we need to shock him one
00:15:06.529 --> 00:15:08.999
More time."
00:15:08.999 --> 00:15:10.333
But before he does that, he prays.
00:15:10.333 --> 00:15:11.701
He prays over him.
00:15:11.701 --> 00:15:13.036
He says, "shock him again."
00:15:13.036 --> 00:15:14.404
The nurse says, "we can't shock him again.
00:15:14.404 --> 00:15:15.739
We tried for 40 minutes.
00:15:15.739 --> 00:15:17.107
There was no heartbeat.
00:15:17.107 --> 00:15:18.441
Even if we got a heartbeat, he'd be brain dead, right?
00:15:18.441 --> 00:15:19.909
He's been dead for 40 minutes."
00:15:19.909 --> 00:15:21.244
They shock him.
00:15:21.244 --> 00:15:22.579
Dr. crandall said, "immediately, a heartbeat came back,"
00:15:22.579 --> 00:15:24.914
A perfect heartbeat, after they tried for 40 minutes.
00:15:24.914 --> 00:15:28.284
Within two days jeff markin was awake.
00:15:28.284 --> 00:15:30.687
Now, he had a near death experience which i won't get
00:15:30.687 --> 00:15:32.322
Into now--we covered in the film--during this time.
00:15:32.322 --> 00:15:35.191
He's awake and completely fine.
00:15:35.191 --> 00:15:37.227
We interviewed jeff markin for this documentary.
00:15:37.227 --> 00:15:40.430
Completely healthy, recovered, and is fine.
00:15:40.430 --> 00:15:43.299
I don't know many people who are dead for 40 minutes, who, after
00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:45.969
A prompting, the doctor comes in, prays over them, and
00:15:45.969 --> 00:15:49.005
Shocks them.
00:15:49.005 --> 00:15:50.340
And so, those are the kinds of stories.
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:51.708
Kirk: unbelievable.
00:15:51.708 --> 00:15:53.209
Which case was one that shocked you the most?
00:15:53.209 --> 00:15:57.180
Billy: so, there were two of them.
00:15:57.180 --> 00:15:58.548
And one would be that one, the jeff markin one, because as i
00:15:58.548 --> 00:16:01.117
Was very skeptical going into it, 'cause i'm thinking, "come
00:16:01.117 --> 00:16:03.286
On, did you really--were you dead for 40 minutes?"
00:16:03.286 --> 00:16:05.522
And then to sit across from this person and have the doctor
00:16:05.522 --> 00:16:07.824
Corroborate all of it after he didn't get the miracle he wanted
00:16:07.824 --> 00:16:10.794
In his life and still believed, that was very convicting for me,
00:16:10.794 --> 00:16:14.798
But also incredible.
00:16:14.798 --> 00:16:16.433
And then there was another story with a man who was paralyzed for
00:16:16.433 --> 00:16:21.271
Ten years.
00:16:21.271 --> 00:16:22.605
He was a police officer, bryan lapooh, walking on, you
00:16:22.605 --> 00:16:26.342
Know, duty.
00:16:26.342 --> 00:16:27.710
Falls on the ice, cracks his neck, breaks his neck, and bryan
00:16:27.710 --> 00:16:33.716
Ends up paralyzed for ten years, okay?
00:16:33.716 --> 00:16:35.885
So, he goes from a healthy cop working in his job to somebody
00:16:35.885 --> 00:16:38.688
Who's paralyzed for ten years.
00:16:38.688 --> 00:16:40.457
And excruciating pain, a migraine that lasted three years
00:16:40.457 --> 00:16:43.760
During this time due to surgery.
00:16:43.760 --> 00:16:45.762
Miserable, begging god for healing, and this is where that
00:16:45.762 --> 00:16:48.865
Persistence comes in, because for ten years he and his wife
00:16:48.865 --> 00:16:51.301
Went to prayer meeting after prayer meeting after prayer
00:16:51.301 --> 00:16:53.670
Meeting to no avail.
00:16:53.670 --> 00:16:55.038
There was no healing coming.
00:16:55.038 --> 00:16:56.372
He was paralyzed in half of his body, wearing a brace that
00:16:56.372 --> 00:16:58.741
Enabled him to kind of walk.
00:16:58.741 --> 00:17:01.344
And he told his wife, "i don't want to go to one more healing.
00:17:01.344 --> 00:17:04.214
I don't want anybody praying over me or touching me.
00:17:04.214 --> 00:17:05.982
I'm done."
00:17:05.982 --> 00:17:07.317
And she said, "we have to go to one more, just go to one more.
00:17:07.317 --> 00:17:09.385
You could do it for my birthday, it could be my birthday gift.
00:17:09.385 --> 00:17:11.321
Just come with me to one more."
00:17:11.321 --> 00:17:12.922
It was at that prayer meeting, and we have it on tape, it's in
00:17:12.922 --> 00:17:15.859
The film, that bryan's hand for the first time in ten years
00:17:15.859 --> 00:17:19.429
Opened up.
00:17:19.429 --> 00:17:20.763
He had had a clenched hand, and he took his brace off and walked
00:17:20.763 --> 00:17:23.099
Out of that prayer meeting after they prayed over him.
00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:24.901
Kirk: what?
00:17:24.901 --> 00:17:26.436
Billy: and we were in his house, standing next to him, talking to
00:17:26.436 --> 00:17:28.838
Him, completely healthy, no explanation for how he
00:17:28.838 --> 00:17:31.541
Was healed.
00:17:31.541 --> 00:17:32.909
And all that happened was a final prayer at that meeting.
00:17:32.909 --> 00:17:37.714
Kirk: no kidding?
00:17:37.714 --> 00:17:39.082
Billy: no kidding.
00:17:39.082 --> 00:17:40.416
I mean, he had the--he showed us the brace.
00:17:40.416 --> 00:17:41.784
I mean, so going into these stories again, you're thinking,
00:17:41.784 --> 00:17:43.586
Is it real?
00:17:43.586 --> 00:17:44.954
Is it true?
00:17:44.954 --> 00:17:46.289
And you have all that, when you talk about the science, all
00:17:46.289 --> 00:17:47.891
That evidence.
00:17:47.891 --> 00:17:49.225
Kirk: yeah, and you think of the scriptures where jesus would
00:17:49.225 --> 00:17:50.693
Take the man who was crippled and the man who was blind or the
00:17:50.693 --> 00:17:53.930
Man who couldn't get up off of this mat or the woman with the
00:17:53.930 --> 00:17:57.567
Blood issue, and boom, they're healed, just like
00:17:57.567 --> 00:18:00.203
You're describing.
00:18:00.203 --> 00:18:02.172
Billy: yeah, and that woman in mark 5, that story has struck me
00:18:02.172 --> 00:18:06.075
So much after working on investigating the supernatural
00:18:06.075 --> 00:18:08.778
Miracles, because i think about her desperation.
00:18:08.778 --> 00:18:11.414
All she wanted to do, she said, "if i could just touch jesus, if
00:18:11.414 --> 00:18:13.917
I could just touch his clothing, i'll be healed."
00:18:13.917 --> 00:18:16.085
That was the persistence that these people had in this film,
00:18:16.085 --> 00:18:19.155
And that was the convicting persistence.
00:18:19.155 --> 00:18:21.090
Kirk: was there one story that you remember had you the most
00:18:21.090 --> 00:18:23.393
Skeptical before you went out and investigated?
00:18:23.393 --> 00:18:26.963
Billy: they all had me skeptical.
00:18:26.963 --> 00:18:28.531
I think the idea that somebody could be dead for 40 minutes and
00:18:28.531 --> 00:18:32.602
Come back really challenged me, because it's just not something
00:18:32.602 --> 00:18:35.338
You hear about.
00:18:35.338 --> 00:18:36.706
And so, there was that one.
00:18:36.706 --> 00:18:38.041
Also, a brain tumor disappearing, you know, with no
00:18:38.041 --> 00:18:40.376
Medical intervention.
00:18:40.376 --> 00:18:41.711
I mean, "okay, well, where did the tumor go?"
00:18:41.711 --> 00:18:43.246
So, i really went in wanting to see that evidence, and we
00:18:43.246 --> 00:18:46.115
Challenged them, like, show us the evidence.
00:18:46.115 --> 00:18:47.517
We want to see all of it.
00:18:47.517 --> 00:18:49.285
And the more you dug, the more you were kind of digging your
00:18:49.285 --> 00:18:51.588
Own hole, 'cause you're like, there's no other
00:18:51.588 --> 00:18:53.189
Explanation here.
00:18:53.189 --> 00:18:54.557
I can't come up with anything else other than god.
00:18:54.557 --> 00:18:56.759
Kirk: yeah, now during the time that you were making this
00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:58.695
Documentary, were there any miracles you were praying for
00:18:58.695 --> 00:19:01.764
Personally in your family?
00:19:01.764 --> 00:19:04.200
Billy: you know, my--yes, a lot of things, but one was that my--
00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:08.905
When my daughter turned six, my older daughter, they were doing
00:19:08.905 --> 00:19:11.708
A scoliosis scan.
00:19:11.708 --> 00:19:13.176
My six year old, the doctor said, pediatrician, "hey, let's
00:19:13.176 --> 00:19:15.478
Look at her back too.
00:19:15.478 --> 00:19:16.846
She's here, we might as well."
00:19:16.846 --> 00:19:18.181
My wife had had scoliosis and had to have reconstructive
00:19:18.181 --> 00:19:20.083
Surgery and put rods in her back.
00:19:20.083 --> 00:19:22.285
And so, as soon as my six year old bent over and they did the
00:19:22.285 --> 00:19:25.121
Test, she was like, "you need to get to a specialist.
00:19:25.121 --> 00:19:27.156
This does not look right."
00:19:27.156 --> 00:19:28.591
And it's not normal for a six year old to be having the level
00:19:28.591 --> 00:19:31.628
Of curve that she had.
00:19:31.628 --> 00:19:32.996
Basically, what happened, she had a 34 degree spinal curve
00:19:32.996 --> 00:19:36.799
That, thank god, the doctor caught, because you're usually
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.235
Surgical by 50 degrees.
00:19:39.235 --> 00:19:40.637
And you don't want to do surgery on the spine of a six or seven
00:19:40.637 --> 00:19:43.373
Year old kid.
00:19:43.373 --> 00:19:44.707
And so, we immediately went from, okay, this kid is normal,
00:19:44.707 --> 00:19:48.478
Playing outside, having fun, to she's got to be in a brace, full
00:19:48.478 --> 00:19:51.547
Torso brace, 21 hours a day.
00:19:51.547 --> 00:19:53.983
And so, that became the new normal.
00:19:53.983 --> 00:19:57.287
And we were praying a lot.
00:19:57.287 --> 00:19:59.422
You know, we did a lot of different interventions during
00:19:59.422 --> 00:20:01.791
The three years that this was going on.
00:20:01.791 --> 00:20:03.159
Now, this overlaps with the documentary, so the last year
00:20:03.159 --> 00:20:05.461
And a half of these three years, lily, my daughter, is going for
00:20:05.461 --> 00:20:09.332
Treatment, she's going for-- she's wearing her brace.
00:20:09.332 --> 00:20:11.868
In february as we're about to release this film, we go for a
00:20:11.868 --> 00:20:15.972
Scan, and they can barely detect her scoliosis.
00:20:15.972 --> 00:20:19.142
She's out of her brace right now.
00:20:19.142 --> 00:20:20.677
We are monitoring her back.
00:20:20.677 --> 00:20:22.345
She's gonna go in a couple weeks and they'll look again to see
00:20:22.345 --> 00:20:25.048
Where she is.
00:20:25.048 --> 00:20:26.416
But right now, they wouldn't even diagnose her
00:20:26.416 --> 00:20:27.750
With scoliosis.
00:20:27.750 --> 00:20:29.085
Kirk: wow, how long has she had the brace?
00:20:29.085 --> 00:20:30.420
Billy: three years. kirk: three years.
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:31.854
Billy: that's not a common experience that somebody
00:20:31.854 --> 00:20:34.490
Corrects to almost 0 when they were at 34 degrees, you know, so
00:20:34.490 --> 00:20:36.726
It's been--it was incredibly miraculous, and it happened at
00:20:36.726 --> 00:20:38.761
The same time that this documentary was coming out.
00:20:38.761 --> 00:20:41.798
Kirk: wow, i'm hoping that people understand that if we're
00:20:41.798 --> 00:20:46.436
Believers in christ, there is a miracle that is going to heal
00:20:46.436 --> 00:20:52.041
Every disease, every sin is going to be eradicated, and we
00:20:52.041 --> 00:20:56.779
Are gonna be whole and holy and our face-to-face meeting with
00:20:56.779 --> 00:21:03.553
Jesus is this final miracle that will happen to everyone whose
00:21:03.553 --> 00:21:09.959
Name is written in the book of life.
00:21:09.959 --> 00:21:11.294
And so, miracles are happening every single day.
00:21:11.294 --> 00:21:14.697
Billy: they are, and they're gonna happen.
00:21:14.697 --> 00:21:16.532
Kirk: whether it's on this side of eternity or on the other side
00:21:16.532 --> 00:21:18.568
Of eternity, a miracle is in your future.
00:21:18.568 --> 00:21:20.937
Billy: a hundred percent, and i think we have to be comfortable.
00:21:20.937 --> 00:21:22.972
We have to get to that place of being comfortable, and i think
00:21:22.972 --> 00:21:25.141
It starts with the death to ourselves and saying, "god,
00:21:25.141 --> 00:21:28.745
Whatever your will is, whatever your plan is, i'm going to give
00:21:28.745 --> 00:21:32.415
Myself over to that, while still believing that you can do
00:21:32.415 --> 00:21:35.618
These things," right?
00:21:35.618 --> 00:21:36.986
I think that that tension for me is something i want to live in.
00:21:36.986 --> 00:21:39.789
And i want to live in it well.
00:21:39.789 --> 00:21:41.124
And we're not always going to do that, but persisting in that.
00:21:41.124 --> 00:21:44.427
And so, i think people will be encouraged, no matter where
00:21:44.427 --> 00:21:46.362
They are.
00:21:46.362 --> 00:21:47.730
I would tell people whether you're an atheist, whether
00:21:47.730 --> 00:21:49.065
You're a christian who believes in miracles, there's something
00:21:49.065 --> 00:21:51.167
In this film for you.
00:21:51.167 --> 00:21:53.336
And that's what we're hearing from people.
00:21:53.336 --> 00:21:54.771
Even people who are skeptical in the christian world that
00:21:54.771 --> 00:21:56.606
Miracles still happen are really encouraged by what they're
00:21:56.606 --> 00:21:59.776
Seeing in this film.
00:21:59.776 --> 00:22:01.110
Kirk: and it's so exciting to know that we have been loved by
00:22:01.110 --> 00:22:05.047
And we speak to and we're together with not just god, but
00:22:05.047 --> 00:22:10.119
A god of miracles, a god who is sovereign over everything and
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:14.991
Can do exactly as he pleases, and that he loves us.
00:22:14.991 --> 00:22:19.896
What--there's a final question, what is it that you hope people
00:22:19.896 --> 00:22:23.032
Will walk away from your film with?
00:22:23.032 --> 00:22:26.536
Billy: i hope people will walk away with hope.
00:22:26.536 --> 00:22:28.938
I think hope and a built up faith in recognizing that there,
00:22:28.938 --> 00:22:32.175
As you were saying, there is a god who is real and he's still
00:22:32.175 --> 00:22:35.978
Performing miracles and that we need to learn to believe for
00:22:35.978 --> 00:22:39.916
Those miracles, but also trusting that he has a plan that
00:22:39.916 --> 00:22:42.819
Is best for us.
00:22:42.819 --> 00:22:44.187
So, i hope they'll go to cbn.com/supernatural, watch it
00:22:44.187 --> 00:22:47.089
And be inspired.
00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:48.458
Kirk: cbn.com/supernatural, and after the break, angie howell
00:22:48.458 --> 00:22:52.829
Will join us, sharing her miracle testimony and the power
00:22:52.829 --> 00:22:56.499
Of prayer.
00:22:56.499 --> 00:22:57.834
We'll be right back.
00:22:57.834 --> 00:22:59.569
Kirk: we'd like to welcome dr. erez soref who serves as
00:23:01.804 --> 00:23:05.074
President of one for israel ministry.
00:23:05.074 --> 00:23:07.243
One for israel's dynamic online outreach ministry transformed
00:23:07.243 --> 00:23:10.913
The visibility of the gospel in israel, with over 70 million
00:23:10.913 --> 00:23:15.184
Views in hebrew alone.
00:23:15.184 --> 00:23:17.753
One for israel also operates the only hebrew-speaking accredited
00:23:17.753 --> 00:23:22.024
Seminary in the world, training jewish and arab pastors and
00:23:22.024 --> 00:23:25.828
Leading outreach and evangelism in the digital arena.
00:23:25.828 --> 00:23:29.899
I'm so thankful you're here.
00:23:29.899 --> 00:23:31.267
Thank you for joining us.
00:23:31.267 --> 00:23:32.602
Erez soref: oh, shalom, kirk, great to be here.
00:23:32.602 --> 00:23:34.370
Kirk: so, you're the president of this bible seminary and the
00:23:34.370 --> 00:23:38.274
Leading gospel ministry in israel, but you didn't grow up
00:23:38.274 --> 00:23:42.111
In the faith.
00:23:42.111 --> 00:23:43.446
So, how did you come to christ and get where you are?
00:23:43.446 --> 00:23:46.716
Erez: so, it sounds really weird.
00:23:46.716 --> 00:23:48.718
And we refer to this phenomenon as jesus being the best-kept
00:23:48.718 --> 00:23:52.088
Secret in the jewish world and in israel.
00:23:52.088 --> 00:23:54.757
And growing up in israel, i've never heard about jesus
00:23:54.757 --> 00:23:57.527
Of nazareth.
00:23:57.527 --> 00:23:58.861
And even though i visited the sea of galilee in jerusalem
00:23:58.861 --> 00:24:00.796
Often, i didn't know anything about him, never seen a
00:24:00.796 --> 00:24:03.533
New testament.
00:24:03.533 --> 00:24:04.867
And in fact, i've heard the gospel when i was 22 after my
00:24:04.867 --> 00:24:08.137
Military service, when i met a group of followers of jesus for
00:24:08.137 --> 00:24:13.242
The first time in my life.
00:24:13.242 --> 00:24:14.577
It was in europe, and it was through their testimony and
00:24:14.577 --> 00:24:18.648
Their love, they got me in paul's language to be jealous,
00:24:18.648 --> 00:24:23.553
Spiritually jealous in a good way.
00:24:23.553 --> 00:24:25.588
And so, i started reading the new testament, finally became
00:24:25.588 --> 00:24:29.392
Convinced in my head and then in my heart that a spiritual
00:24:29.392 --> 00:24:32.161
Experience with yeshua, jesus.
00:24:32.161 --> 00:24:34.530
And i thought i was the only jewish disciple since paul to
00:24:34.530 --> 00:24:37.767
Have made this great discovery.
00:24:37.767 --> 00:24:40.136
Went home very enthused to tell my parents, my friends, my
00:24:40.136 --> 00:24:43.573
Family, my neighbors, my people about this great discovery.
00:24:43.573 --> 00:24:47.977
The initial response was very different than what i expected.
00:24:47.977 --> 00:24:50.446
It was not all that positive.
00:24:50.446 --> 00:24:53.015
But i did find out that i'm not the--i wasn't the only follower
00:24:53.015 --> 00:24:57.019
Of yeshua in the country, which was great encouragement to me.
00:24:57.019 --> 00:25:00.489
I started attending a local church or congregation.
00:25:00.489 --> 00:25:03.726
And that's kind of how we started.
00:25:03.726 --> 00:25:05.528
Kirk: wow, that is so fascinating to me.
00:25:05.528 --> 00:25:07.463
And i grew up in atheism, and we found christ, and life has
00:25:07.463 --> 00:25:13.035
Never been the same.
00:25:13.035 --> 00:25:14.370
And the ministry that you have in israel to jews, to arabs with
00:25:14.370 --> 00:25:18.207
The gospel is just overwhelmingly encouraging.
00:25:18.207 --> 00:25:21.510
What is the climate like right now for the reception of the
00:25:21.510 --> 00:25:25.781
Gospel in israel as opposed to when you first heard the gospel?
00:25:25.781 --> 00:25:30.586
Erez: so, say 30 some years ago, shortly after i became a
00:25:30.586 --> 00:25:34.156
Follower of jesus, i started going to university, and my
00:25:34.156 --> 00:25:37.927
Friends and i, you know, we had a couple of us, and we would go
00:25:37.927 --> 00:25:40.663
Out and talk to other students about spiritual things and jesus
00:25:40.663 --> 00:25:43.466
In particular.
00:25:43.466 --> 00:25:44.800
And the response was always, always, always, with no failure,
00:25:44.800 --> 00:25:47.803
You know, how can you, as an israeli jew, talk to us
00:25:47.803 --> 00:25:50.806
About jesus?
00:25:50.806 --> 00:25:52.141
I mean, who's ever heard about this thing?
00:25:52.141 --> 00:25:53.509
And now jumping 30 some years ahead, of course, the exposure,
00:25:53.509 --> 00:25:57.647
As you mentioned, is just dramatically different.
00:25:57.647 --> 00:26:01.017
But especially the last 20 months with the current war
00:26:01.017 --> 00:26:05.788
That's going on in israel, maybe the most difficult season in the
00:26:05.788 --> 00:26:10.192
Life of the jewish people and the state of israel since the
00:26:10.192 --> 00:26:14.330
Holocaust, and a lot of people have existential questions.
00:26:14.330 --> 00:26:18.334
You know, why is this happening?
00:26:18.334 --> 00:26:19.669
Is there hope in any way, shape, or form?
00:26:19.669 --> 00:26:21.470
And so, our channels, digital channels have just seen an
00:26:21.470 --> 00:26:25.307
Explosion of people calling us, writing us, texting us, wanting
00:26:25.307 --> 00:26:29.845
To hear more about the hope in yeshua, in jesus.
00:26:29.845 --> 00:26:33.849
Kirk: yeah, this is very, very encouraging.
00:26:33.849 --> 00:26:37.253
What are some of the challenges that you are seeing and that the
00:26:37.253 --> 00:26:40.623
Gospel is facing in israel today?
00:26:40.623 --> 00:26:42.825
Erez: well, we share the gospel both with jewish people and arab
00:26:42.825 --> 00:26:45.261
People, and it's both similar but also different in terms of
00:26:45.261 --> 00:26:48.397
The challenges.
00:26:48.397 --> 00:26:49.765
You know, our arab evangelism team and our--actually, our
00:26:49.765 --> 00:26:52.568
Jewish one too gets a lot of threats, you know, including
00:26:52.568 --> 00:26:56.138
Life threats.
00:26:56.138 --> 00:26:57.840
There is a group in the nation of israel of people that kind of
00:26:57.840 --> 00:27:02.078
Like paul before he became the apostle, that truly believe that
00:27:02.078 --> 00:27:06.582
They serve god by trying to stop our activity.
00:27:06.582 --> 00:27:09.819
So, they would anything from, you know, articles in the
00:27:09.819 --> 00:27:12.421
Newspaper telling how terrible we are, digital media of course
00:27:12.421 --> 00:27:16.559
Now, demonstrations in front of our buildings, and now more
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:20.696
Recently trying to pursue a legal route, suing us for all
00:27:20.696 --> 00:27:25.568
Sorts of different things and trying to, you know, just take
00:27:25.568 --> 00:27:29.538
Attention and resources and stop our activity.
00:27:29.538 --> 00:27:31.907
You know, it's really not about us and that those people are not
00:27:31.907 --> 00:27:34.577
Our enemies.
00:27:34.577 --> 00:27:35.911
They're actually, you know, the people that we're trying
00:27:35.911 --> 00:27:37.279
To reach.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:38.614
We pray for them.
00:27:38.614 --> 00:27:39.982
There'll be more apostle pauls from among them.
00:27:39.982 --> 00:27:41.517
But the reality for the church in israel is that there's a lot
00:27:41.517 --> 00:27:46.222
Of struggle, i mean, on an ongoing basis.
00:27:46.222 --> 00:27:48.724
Kirk: yeah, i've learned throughout history that this may
00:27:48.724 --> 00:27:52.394
Be one of the periods of time in our history where revival or a
00:27:52.394 --> 00:27:58.968
Great awakening breaks out because they always come during
00:27:58.968 --> 00:28:02.371
Times of financial hardship, spiritual apathy, persecution,
00:28:02.371 --> 00:28:08.010
And even economic challenges.
00:28:08.010 --> 00:28:10.379
People turn their hearts to god, and with the war you're saying
00:28:10.379 --> 00:28:13.115
That's exactly what's happening.
00:28:13.115 --> 00:28:15.151
Erez: that's exactly what's happening.
00:28:15.151 --> 00:28:16.552
Kirk: well, how can we pray for israel?
00:28:16.552 --> 00:28:18.554
Erez: well, first of all, thank you.
00:28:18.554 --> 00:28:19.889
And, you know, praying for israel, praying for the peace of
00:28:19.889 --> 00:28:21.924
Jerusalem is something that scripture is commanding us
00:28:21.924 --> 00:28:24.360
To do.
00:28:24.360 --> 00:28:25.694
God is commanding us in scripture.
00:28:25.694 --> 00:28:27.062
And for that reason, we at one for israel created this 31 day
00:28:27.062 --> 00:28:32.635
Prayer guide.
00:28:32.635 --> 00:28:33.969
And in that prayer guide you can learn specifically how to pray
00:28:33.969 --> 00:28:37.673
For different groups in israel for different things that are
00:28:37.673 --> 00:28:40.910
Very relevant for the life of followers of yeshua, of jesus in
00:28:40.910 --> 00:28:45.447
Israel, in a very both intelligent and informed way.
00:28:45.447 --> 00:28:49.919
So this is a great resource.
00:28:49.919 --> 00:28:51.320
We get very, very good feedback, and it's completely free.
00:28:51.320 --> 00:28:55.024
Kirk: i love that.
00:28:55.024 --> 00:28:56.358
If we want to pray for israel, let's pray specifically, like
00:28:56.358 --> 00:28:59.829
Here for unity in messiah, training ministers, underground
00:28:59.829 --> 00:29:03.199
Believers, the oral torah.
00:29:03.199 --> 00:29:05.100
This is fantastic.
00:29:05.100 --> 00:29:06.435
Just scan the qr code that you have on your screen, or you can
00:29:06.435 --> 00:29:10.139
Call the number or visit the website oneforisrael.org.
00:29:10.139 --> 00:29:15.611
We'll have more on "takeaways," right after this.
00:29:15.611 --> 00:29:21.007
We'll have more on "takeaways," right after this.
00:29:21.007 --> 00:29:24.920
Kirk: angie howell is a pediatric registered nurse.
00:29:29.024 --> 00:29:32.161
She's an entrepreneur and an inspirational speaker.
00:29:32.161 --> 00:29:35.164
She's written a book about a miracle that took place in her
00:29:35.164 --> 00:29:38.567
Life involving the birth of her daughter jade.
00:29:38.567 --> 00:29:40.903
It's called "jewel of heaven."
00:29:40.903 --> 00:29:42.938
Angie, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
00:29:42.938 --> 00:29:44.907
Angie: thank you for having me.
00:29:44.907 --> 00:29:46.876
Kirk: well, i wanna talk about miracles, because i think
00:29:46.876 --> 00:29:50.546
Everyone is intrigued by them and excited at the possibility
00:29:50.546 --> 00:29:54.884
That maybe a miracle could happen to them.
00:29:54.884 --> 00:29:56.919
Some people have prayed for miracles for years and years and
00:29:56.919 --> 00:29:59.622
Years, and they've not seen the miracle that they've hoped for,
00:29:59.622 --> 00:30:02.324
And then others have had them happen when they never expected
00:30:02.324 --> 00:30:06.195
It to happen.
00:30:06.195 --> 00:30:07.730
So, you've called your daughter jade your jewel from heaven.
00:30:07.730 --> 00:30:14.670
Can you describe a little bit about what life was like for you
00:30:14.670 --> 00:30:19.074
Before jade?
00:30:19.074 --> 00:30:20.442
Angie: yeah, so i had a pretty messy life.
00:30:20.442 --> 00:30:23.812
When i found out i was pregnant with jade, i was on my
00:30:23.812 --> 00:30:27.616
Third marriage.
00:30:27.616 --> 00:30:29.084
I had seven children already at home, and i was really just
00:30:29.084 --> 00:30:32.821
Looking for this freedom.
00:30:32.821 --> 00:30:35.758
I'd been a mother half of my life, and i really wanted just a
00:30:35.758 --> 00:30:39.662
Little independence to be who i wanted to be.
00:30:39.662 --> 00:30:43.599
I wasn't following jesus.
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:45.734
And so, my life was just a complete mess, upside down.
00:30:45.734 --> 00:30:49.805
I knew jesus, i had accepted him as my savior when i was a young
00:30:49.805 --> 00:30:53.075
Child, but i just went off on my own path.
00:30:53.075 --> 00:30:56.211
I, like angie does, went rogue.
00:30:56.211 --> 00:30:58.747
And so, when i would need something, i would reach out
00:30:58.747 --> 00:31:02.484
To jesus.
00:31:02.484 --> 00:31:03.819
I would say that prayer.
00:31:03.819 --> 00:31:05.187
I was definitely a lukewarm christian and did not really put
00:31:05.187 --> 00:31:07.756
My faith where i should have.
00:31:07.756 --> 00:31:10.960
Kirk: and then when she was born, is that when you found out
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.096
There was something very wrong?
00:31:14.096 --> 00:31:15.531
Yeah, so i kind of knew in the pregnancy that they--it was
00:31:15.531 --> 00:31:18.567
Pretty bumpy.
00:31:18.567 --> 00:31:19.902
And had a couple of medical emergencies during
00:31:19.902 --> 00:31:23.639
The pregnancy.
00:31:23.639 --> 00:31:25.407
When she was born, she looked perfect.
00:31:25.407 --> 00:31:27.476
She was beautiful, and everyone said, "look, we told you, she's
00:31:27.476 --> 00:31:31.347
Gonna be fine," and she looked fine, and until she wasn't fine,
00:31:31.347 --> 00:31:36.919
Just a few days after she was born.
00:31:36.919 --> 00:31:38.921
Kirk: and so, you started seeing doctors, and they started giving
00:31:38.921 --> 00:31:42.424
You scans on mri machines.
00:31:42.424 --> 00:31:46.061
And after a while, it became apparent that there was
00:31:46.061 --> 00:31:49.264
Something very wrong.
00:31:49.264 --> 00:31:50.599
How did the doctors explain the results to you?
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:52.334
Angie: yeah, you know, so we were actually rushed back to the
00:31:52.334 --> 00:31:55.104
Hospital when jade was five days old.
00:31:55.104 --> 00:31:57.573
And so, that sort of started this cascade of events of every
00:31:57.573 --> 00:32:03.045
Specialist imaginable.
00:32:03.045 --> 00:32:06.148
So, we ended up with the neurologist when she was about
00:32:06.148 --> 00:32:09.084
Four weeks old, and he said, "we need a brain mri.
00:32:09.084 --> 00:32:12.454
I need to know what's going on with this baby."
00:32:12.454 --> 00:32:14.656
She won't eat, she's very floppy.
00:32:14.656 --> 00:32:17.359
And there's clearly something very, very scary going on
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:21.497
With her.
00:32:21.497 --> 00:32:22.831
Kirk: oh, wow.
00:32:22.831 --> 00:32:24.166
I just can't imagine discovering that there's something wrong
00:32:24.166 --> 00:32:27.369
With your child, because you want to fix it and you can't.
00:32:27.369 --> 00:32:31.907
What did you pray when you found out that there was something
00:32:31.907 --> 00:32:35.044
Wrong with jade?
00:32:35.044 --> 00:32:36.445
Angie: you know, i was--when we were at the hospital and jade
00:32:36.445 --> 00:32:41.316
Was laying in the bed, literally dying in front of me, i just put
00:32:41.316 --> 00:32:45.954
My head on the bed and just prayed, "lord, you know, take
00:32:45.954 --> 00:32:50.392
Me, not her.
00:32:50.392 --> 00:32:52.428
I'll exchange my life for hers.
00:32:52.428 --> 00:32:54.329
She doesn't deserve this.
00:32:54.329 --> 00:32:56.031
This is an unfair thing for my sweet baby to go through."
00:32:56.031 --> 00:33:02.037
Kirk: and so, what did the doctors tell you jade had and
00:33:02.037 --> 00:33:06.742
What her prognosis was?
00:33:06.742 --> 00:33:08.510
Angie: yeah, so we ended up getting that first brain mri,
00:33:08.510 --> 00:33:11.814
And it came back really, really bad.
00:33:11.814 --> 00:33:15.284
The word fatal was presented to us.
00:33:15.284 --> 00:33:18.754
There's not an actual diagnosis for what had happened to
00:33:18.754 --> 00:33:23.058
Jade's brain.
00:33:23.058 --> 00:33:24.426
She had no myelination of the white matter of her brain.
00:33:24.426 --> 00:33:27.162
And basically, that's just a big medical terminology for there's
00:33:27.162 --> 00:33:33.001
No insulation around her nerves in her brain or throughout
00:33:33.001 --> 00:33:36.505
Her body.
00:33:36.505 --> 00:33:37.873
So, it was very clear very quickly that she would not
00:33:37.873 --> 00:33:42.644
Survive for too long.
00:33:42.644 --> 00:33:44.847
Kirk: wow, then in your book, you talked about a very unlikely
00:33:44.847 --> 00:33:48.517
Event, and that was that rich--your brother?
00:33:48.517 --> 00:33:51.487
Angie: he's my cousin.
00:33:51.487 --> 00:33:52.988
Kirk: your cousin rich came to the hospital to see jade and
00:33:52.988 --> 00:33:58.594
Asked you if his biker club could pray for jade, is
00:33:58.594 --> 00:34:03.799
That right?
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:05.134
Angie: yeah, so he showed up at the hospital in the very
00:34:05.134 --> 00:34:06.735
Beginning, and i was pretty angry at god at that point.
00:34:06.735 --> 00:34:10.906
I knew that--i thought god had left me.
00:34:10.906 --> 00:34:14.843
So, when rich shows up in his leather coat and riding his
00:34:14.843 --> 00:34:18.914
Harley and in his bible with him, his durag, you know, i
00:34:18.914 --> 00:34:23.085
Just said, "you need to just go, because god has left
00:34:23.085 --> 00:34:26.355
The building.
00:34:26.355 --> 00:34:27.689
He is not here with me.
00:34:27.689 --> 00:34:29.024
Take your bible and leave.
00:34:29.024 --> 00:34:31.293
I don't want anything to do with any of this."
00:34:31.293 --> 00:34:34.496
And i had just become such a dark place that, at that point,
00:34:34.496 --> 00:34:40.035
There would be no prayer.
00:34:40.035 --> 00:34:41.370
I would not accept any of that.
00:34:41.370 --> 00:34:43.238
And so, rich left, but he didn't stop pursuing me, just
00:34:43.238 --> 00:34:48.810
Like jesus.
00:34:48.810 --> 00:34:50.145
Like, rich continued to call and try to get ahold of me.
00:34:50.145 --> 00:34:54.850
And so, even when i was pulling myself away from jesus and my
00:34:54.850 --> 00:34:59.254
Family and going into this dark dungeon place, rich and all of
00:34:59.254 --> 00:35:03.759
The people that jesus had already decided long before then
00:35:03.759 --> 00:35:07.563
He would send to help me, they stayed there.
00:35:07.563 --> 00:35:11.133
They were constant.
00:35:11.133 --> 00:35:12.467
They kept trying to get through to me.
00:35:12.467 --> 00:35:15.604
Kirk: what made you finally give in and relent and allow rich
00:35:15.604 --> 00:35:19.274
To pray?
00:35:19.274 --> 00:35:20.609
Angie: because he was harassing me constantly, kirk, in a
00:35:20.609 --> 00:35:23.779
Good way.
00:35:23.779 --> 00:35:25.113
And i was just--i just found out about this bad brain mri.
00:35:25.113 --> 00:35:27.816
Jade was getting worse.
00:35:27.816 --> 00:35:29.518
She had a feeding tube at this point in her stomach, and she
00:35:29.518 --> 00:35:33.055
Was very sick.
00:35:33.055 --> 00:35:34.456
And so, he just kept calling, and i accidentally answered my
00:35:34.456 --> 00:35:38.293
Phone one day, and he said, "you know, i just think we need to
00:35:38.293 --> 00:35:42.431
Get over with the brothers and let them pray over her."
00:35:42.431 --> 00:35:46.201
And i finally said, "you know what?
00:35:46.201 --> 00:35:47.903
Fine, we'll go, we'll go.
00:35:47.903 --> 00:35:49.938
It couldn't get any worse.
00:35:49.938 --> 00:35:51.673
She's already gonna die, so we'll do it."
00:35:51.673 --> 00:35:56.144
Kirk: this reminds me of the story in the scriptures where i
00:35:56.144 --> 00:36:00.082
Believe it was jesus himself tells the story of the woman
00:36:00.082 --> 00:36:02.985
Who's looking for justice and she just keeps knocking on the
00:36:02.985 --> 00:36:05.821
Door of the judge, and finally he's like, "okay, fine.
00:36:05.821 --> 00:36:09.124
Okay, fine.
00:36:09.124 --> 00:36:10.492
All right, i'm gonna help you."
00:36:10.492 --> 00:36:11.994
And how much more does god want to help us when
00:36:11.994 --> 00:36:15.464
We're persistent?
00:36:15.464 --> 00:36:16.798
And god helped you open the door and let rich and the biker
00:36:16.798 --> 00:36:21.036
Guys in.
00:36:21.036 --> 00:36:22.371
Angie: because i sure wasn't gonna let that happen.
00:36:22.371 --> 00:36:23.939
I was absolutely not going to be the one to pursue that.
00:36:23.939 --> 00:36:27.442
So, praise god that he sent these people one after the next
00:36:27.442 --> 00:36:31.580
To just pursue me and get me in that space that we needed to
00:36:31.580 --> 00:36:35.651
Be in.
00:36:35.651 --> 00:36:36.985
Kirk: and so, they came in and they prayed for her?
00:36:36.985 --> 00:36:38.453
Angie: so, we show up at the biker party, i called it, and
00:36:38.453 --> 00:36:41.823
Everyone's out front smoking cigarettes and wearing
00:36:41.823 --> 00:36:43.959
Their leather.
00:36:43.959 --> 00:36:45.327
Kirk: and where's jade, is she at the hospital?
00:36:45.327 --> 00:36:46.662
Angie: she's with me in a car seat, yes, and we carry her in,
00:36:46.662 --> 00:36:50.799
And everyone was very kind to us.
00:36:50.799 --> 00:36:52.834
It was not what i was expecting.
00:36:52.834 --> 00:36:54.303
I'm still very angry with god and rich and everyone.
00:36:54.303 --> 00:36:57.939
And rich starts the prayer, and i'm in the middle of the room,
00:36:57.939 --> 00:37:02.577
And there's like, i'm in a bull's-eye, and i'm all of a
00:37:02.577 --> 00:37:05.681
Sudden all these hands come out and they're getting ready to lay
00:37:05.681 --> 00:37:08.817
Hands on her.
00:37:08.817 --> 00:37:10.152
I'm like, "where's the door?
00:37:10.152 --> 00:37:12.387
I need to get out of here."
00:37:12.387 --> 00:37:13.989
Kirk: is this some creepy cult?
00:37:13.989 --> 00:37:15.457
Is this a seance?
00:37:15.457 --> 00:37:16.825
What's gonna happen?
00:37:16.825 --> 00:37:18.160
Angie: and i had never experienced a prayer like
00:37:18.160 --> 00:37:19.528
That before.
00:37:19.528 --> 00:37:20.862
So, when the hands came out, they started anointing jade's
00:37:20.862 --> 00:37:24.633
Head and her heart and all the areas of her body that she had
00:37:24.633 --> 00:37:28.804
Had some medical problem with.
00:37:28.804 --> 00:37:30.906
And i just thought, my goodness, they had just smoked cigarettes
00:37:30.906 --> 00:37:34.476
And they're putting their filthy hands on her.
00:37:34.476 --> 00:37:37.179
I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
00:37:37.179 --> 00:37:40.182
Kirk: wow, i can't wait to hear what happens, and when we come
00:37:40.182 --> 00:37:44.519
Back from the break, angie is gonna share the rest of the
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:47.422
Story about the power of prayer and what happened with her
00:37:47.422 --> 00:37:50.592
Daughter, so don't go away.
00:37:50.592 --> 00:37:58.999
Daughter, so don't go away.
00:37:58.999 --> 00:38:01.772
Kirk: we're back with angie howell, who wrote "jewel of
00:38:05.943 --> 00:38:08.779
Heaven," sharing her miracle testimony.
00:38:08.779 --> 00:38:11.448
So, you're there, you're at the biker meeting.
00:38:11.448 --> 00:38:14.618
They're surrounding you and your daughter jade.
00:38:14.618 --> 00:38:17.688
They're laying hands on her.
00:38:17.688 --> 00:38:19.356
They're anointing her with oil.
00:38:19.356 --> 00:38:21.892
Then what happens?
00:38:21.892 --> 00:38:23.260
Angie: so, i leave as quickly as i can.
00:38:23.260 --> 00:38:25.929
Kirk: you couldn't get out of there fast enough.
00:38:25.929 --> 00:38:27.297
Angie: i could not get out of there fast enough.
00:38:27.297 --> 00:38:29.166
But kirk, you know, something changed.
00:38:29.166 --> 00:38:31.135
And i felt it.
00:38:31.135 --> 00:38:32.469
Something changed in me, and i saw a change in jade too.
00:38:32.469 --> 00:38:36.039
For the first time, she made an audible noise from the
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:40.043
Back seat.
00:38:40.043 --> 00:38:41.378
And i just thought, "i don't know what happened in there, but
00:38:41.378 --> 00:38:45.082
Something happened."
00:38:45.082 --> 00:38:46.417
Kirk: and so did you go back to the doctor's a couple weeks
00:38:46.417 --> 00:38:48.152
Later, another mri, and what happened?
00:38:48.152 --> 00:38:50.687
Angie: we had already scheduled that follow-up brain mri,
00:38:50.687 --> 00:38:53.457
Because really we needed a benchmark of how long we would
00:38:53.457 --> 00:38:56.627
Have with jade, you know, was it months or weeks or how long it
00:38:56.627 --> 00:38:59.763
Would be.
00:38:59.763 --> 00:39:01.098
And so, we took her back to get her follow-up brain mri, and the
00:39:01.098 --> 00:39:05.335
Neurologist just said, "i need you to come back.
00:39:05.335 --> 00:39:08.071
I need to talk to you.
00:39:08.071 --> 00:39:09.673
I wanna sit you down and tell you what's going on here."
00:39:09.673 --> 00:39:14.311
Kirk: yeah, not by email, nothing like that.
00:39:14.311 --> 00:39:16.380
Like, we need to have a talk.
00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:18.415
And so, how did the talk go?
00:39:18.415 --> 00:39:20.784
Angie: so, he sat us down the same way as he did the first
00:39:20.784 --> 00:39:23.987
Time and he put up the two screens like he did before.
00:39:23.987 --> 00:39:27.124
And the first screen popped up and it was that beautiful,
00:39:27.124 --> 00:39:31.328
Beautiful brain that i was just so jealous over and i just
00:39:31.328 --> 00:39:34.498
Wished that my baby's brain would be like that.
00:39:34.498 --> 00:39:37.301
And i kept waiting.
00:39:37.301 --> 00:39:38.669
That was the healthy brain, right?
00:39:38.669 --> 00:39:40.938
And that one popped up, and then i just kept waiting for jade's
00:39:40.938 --> 00:39:44.508
Brain to pop up again like it did before.
00:39:44.508 --> 00:39:48.145
And it didn't.
00:39:48.145 --> 00:39:49.580
He said, "this is your daughter's brain.
00:39:49.580 --> 00:39:52.149
And i cannot explain it, but it's completely normal.
00:39:52.149 --> 00:39:57.321
Completely normal."
00:39:57.321 --> 00:39:59.523
Kirk: i mean, obviously we just look at that and we say,
00:39:59.523 --> 00:40:01.658
"a miracle?"
00:40:01.658 --> 00:40:02.993
Angie: it is a miracle, it truly is.
00:40:02.993 --> 00:40:04.561
Kirk: was there any medical treatments that were done
00:40:04.561 --> 00:40:07.264
Between the prayer and the mri?
00:40:07.264 --> 00:40:09.366
Angie: there were no medical treatments.
00:40:09.366 --> 00:40:11.301
We were just sustaining her life at that point with her g tube.
00:40:11.301 --> 00:40:15.372
But without a doubt, i've talked to multiple neurologists, i
00:40:15.372 --> 00:40:19.843
Actually interviewed with a neurosurgeon a few months ago.
00:40:19.843 --> 00:40:24.515
And he just said, "folks, i just have to tell you this is a bona
00:40:24.515 --> 00:40:27.951
Fide miracle."
00:40:27.951 --> 00:40:29.286
He's reviewed her chart, he's seen her files.
00:40:29.286 --> 00:40:31.989
There's no other way to explain it.
00:40:31.989 --> 00:40:33.824
Kirk: there's no medical explanation for how
00:40:33.824 --> 00:40:35.692
That happened.
00:40:35.692 --> 00:40:37.060
So, once her brain condition normalized and the problem
00:40:37.060 --> 00:40:42.966
Vanished, did her health stabilize?
00:40:42.966 --> 00:40:45.903
Angie: so, jade did slowly start to get better, but we're
00:40:45.903 --> 00:40:49.373
Talking years.
00:40:49.373 --> 00:40:50.741
Jade had a g tube for 13 years, and so she didn't walk early or
00:40:50.741 --> 00:40:56.179
Walk like other children did.
00:40:56.179 --> 00:40:58.215
She was off on her milestones.
00:40:58.215 --> 00:41:00.017
She is 18 and has some cognitive difficulties and disabilities,
00:41:00.017 --> 00:41:05.889
But i will tell you that whole road was just--it was just
00:41:05.889 --> 00:41:09.826
Worth it.
00:41:09.826 --> 00:41:11.161
She is the most amazing human being i've ever met.
00:41:11.161 --> 00:41:14.431
I wouldn't change a hair on her head.
00:41:14.431 --> 00:41:16.633
You know, god made her exactly how he intended her to be and
00:41:16.633 --> 00:41:19.903
Knit her--
00:41:19.903 --> 00:41:21.238
He knit her together in my womb, and she is such an amazing
00:41:21.238 --> 00:41:25.275
Human being.
00:41:25.275 --> 00:41:26.610
She has been a missionary in mexico.
00:41:26.610 --> 00:41:28.312
She has climbed a mountain in colorado.
00:41:28.312 --> 00:41:31.014
And she is just part of this whole testimony that we have the
00:41:31.014 --> 00:41:34.551
Opportunity to share with the world.
00:41:34.551 --> 00:41:36.720
Kirk: yeah, i just love hearing stories like this.
00:41:36.720 --> 00:41:39.656
And what you're saying is so true.
00:41:39.656 --> 00:41:41.725
We have this idea, i think, that because god is good, god is
00:41:41.725 --> 00:41:46.863
Gonna make everything easy, and it's all gonna go right, and
00:41:46.863 --> 00:41:50.901
Nothing terrible is gonna happen.
00:41:50.901 --> 00:41:52.569
And sometimes people see things happen that are really
00:41:52.569 --> 00:41:56.206
Difficult, and it makes them lose their faith or question the
00:41:56.206 --> 00:41:58.775
Goodness and faithfulness of god.
00:41:58.775 --> 00:42:00.844
But in the midst of all those things, god can also show us
00:42:00.844 --> 00:42:04.014
Just how faithful he is, and he develops character qualities in
00:42:04.014 --> 00:42:08.085
You and me because of people like jade.
00:42:08.085 --> 00:42:12.289
And i've talked to so many parents who have children with
00:42:12.289 --> 00:42:14.691
Different kinds of disabilities or illnesses and they would say,
00:42:14.691 --> 00:42:19.596
"i would never have wished this upon my child, but i would never
00:42:19.596 --> 00:42:22.432
Want to be anybody else than the parent i am of this child,
00:42:22.432 --> 00:42:27.971
Because they've developed things in me and my child is so
00:42:27.971 --> 00:42:30.741
Precious and irreplaceable that god's demonstrating his
00:42:30.741 --> 00:42:35.812
Faithfulness in the midst of it."
00:42:35.812 --> 00:42:37.414
Angie: yes, and our story really is a testimony that god doesn't
00:42:37.414 --> 00:42:42.886
Just help those who are faithful to him.
00:42:42.886 --> 00:42:45.522
God finds those who are in the middle of the mess, the misfits,
00:42:45.522 --> 00:42:48.925
The broken children, the women at the well, like i was.
00:42:48.925 --> 00:42:54.998
And he comes right in the middle of the messes that we create,
00:42:54.998 --> 00:42:59.102
And he's there with us.
00:42:59.102 --> 00:43:00.504
He sits with us.
00:43:00.504 --> 00:43:02.039
Kirk: yeah, because you weren't, you know, the pollyanna church
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:07.244
Lady who was hosting all the bake sales and leading the
00:43:07.244 --> 00:43:11.481
Awana class.
00:43:11.481 --> 00:43:13.784
You were someone who really wasn't walking with jesus, and
00:43:13.784 --> 00:43:19.256
Yet the miracle happened when you were in that place.
00:43:19.256 --> 00:43:22.492
Angie: yes, yes, and that's what he does, right?
00:43:22.492 --> 00:43:25.228
He shows up and he meets us right where we're at.
00:43:25.228 --> 00:43:28.899
And to use--think of who he used to perform that miracle,
00:43:28.899 --> 00:43:34.037
The hands that were laid on her, the christian bikers.
00:43:34.037 --> 00:43:38.642
Kirk: stinky cigarette hands of bikers.
00:43:38.642 --> 00:43:41.078
Angie: yeah, just like the people jesus hung out with, the
00:43:41.078 --> 00:43:43.747
Stinky fishermen, you know, the tax collectors.
00:43:43.747 --> 00:43:46.717
Like, he's gathered these people together, and i think it's so
00:43:46.717 --> 00:43:49.720
Important that we do not discount what someone looks like
00:43:49.720 --> 00:43:53.790
Or where they've come from or the choices they made before
00:43:53.790 --> 00:43:57.360
Jesus, because look at who he-- the most unlikely people to
00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:01.598
Perform the most extraordinary miracles.
00:44:01.598 --> 00:44:03.567
Kirk: that's right, and then in your book you share the story of
00:44:03.567 --> 00:44:07.404
How jade came to you when she was seven years old, and she
00:44:07.404 --> 00:44:11.174
Told you something about heaven.
00:44:11.174 --> 00:44:13.043
Angie: this is a crazy story.
00:44:13.043 --> 00:44:14.678
So, seven years old, but had just started talking, so within
00:44:14.678 --> 00:44:18.315
The last--the previous year or so.
00:44:18.315 --> 00:44:20.951
And we were just reading a book about just bible stories.
00:44:20.951 --> 00:44:25.188
There's one in there about heaven, and she gets really
00:44:25.188 --> 00:44:28.592
Excited and starts sort of jumping on the bed, and she
00:44:28.592 --> 00:44:33.029
Says, "oh, i know heaven, mommy."
00:44:33.029 --> 00:44:35.766
And again, you have to remember, she is cognitively about three
00:44:35.766 --> 00:44:39.169
Years old.
00:44:39.169 --> 00:44:40.537
And she said, "i know heaven, mommy."
00:44:40.537 --> 00:44:42.806
And i said, "oh, you're so cute.
00:44:42.806 --> 00:44:44.808
Tell me all about that."
00:44:44.808 --> 00:44:46.143
And she said, "that's where i met jesus."
00:44:46.143 --> 00:44:49.679
And i just, my jaw dropped, and she went on to say, "when i was
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:55.185
In your tummy, i met jesus in heaven.
00:44:55.185 --> 00:44:58.355
And i asked him, 'where's my mommy?
00:44:58.355 --> 00:45:01.291
I want my mommy.
00:45:01.291 --> 00:45:02.659
And he put me back.'"
00:45:02.659 --> 00:45:05.128
And the reason that this is so significant, because some people
00:45:05.128 --> 00:45:08.331
Will say, "oh, she just made it up," or whatever.
00:45:08.331 --> 00:45:11.134
When i was pregnant with her at 17 weeks, i almost lost her, and
00:45:11.134 --> 00:45:14.237
I had a major hemorrhage.
00:45:14.237 --> 00:45:16.106
And i was on the--my knees on the bathroom floor, crying out
00:45:16.106 --> 00:45:19.442
To god, "don't take this baby, don't take this baby."
00:45:19.442 --> 00:45:22.712
And i believe, in that moment, it was that moment that jade met
00:45:22.712 --> 00:45:27.818
Jesus in heaven and said, "i want my mommy," and then with
00:45:27.818 --> 00:45:30.921
All the grace and mercy of the lord he said, "okay, i'm gonna
00:45:30.921 --> 00:45:35.926
Put you back."
00:45:35.926 --> 00:45:37.260
And he did, and he put her back.
00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:38.995
Kirk: wow.
00:45:38.995 --> 00:45:40.797
What are your thoughts about the power of prayer now?
00:45:40.797 --> 00:45:44.100
I know you believe in prayer.
00:45:44.100 --> 00:45:45.468
I know you believe in miracles, because you experienced
00:45:45.468 --> 00:45:48.839
Something that the medical community cannot explain
00:45:48.839 --> 00:45:52.175
Medically, and so you're convinced.
00:45:52.175 --> 00:45:54.711
But what about the power of prayer?
00:45:54.711 --> 00:45:57.180
We could pray for a miracle right now for someone that we
00:45:57.180 --> 00:45:59.816
Know who needs healing and it might happen, it might
00:45:59.816 --> 00:46:03.887
Not happen.
00:46:03.887 --> 00:46:05.222
So, what should we make of the power of prayer?
00:46:05.222 --> 00:46:08.391
Angie: yeah, so, i mean, the bible, what does the bible say?
00:46:08.391 --> 00:46:10.594
It says that we pray, we fast, we lay hands, we do all of
00:46:10.594 --> 00:46:13.496
These things.
00:46:13.496 --> 00:46:14.865
And we still are skeptics, even as christians, like, oh, that
00:46:14.865 --> 00:46:18.535
Really happen?
00:46:18.535 --> 00:46:19.870
Is that really a miracle?
00:46:19.870 --> 00:46:21.238
I think it's important that we really look at--the bible
00:46:21.238 --> 00:46:25.108
Says it, it is, and so miracles happen every day.
00:46:25.108 --> 00:46:30.146
They do.
00:46:30.146 --> 00:46:31.514
And i tell my own families in the company that i started, you
00:46:31.514 --> 00:46:35.252
Know what?
00:46:35.252 --> 00:46:36.586
You may not get that miracle that you're asking for, but your
00:46:36.586 --> 00:46:39.890
Child is the miracle.
00:46:39.890 --> 00:46:41.825
And you may have to look every single day to find that miracle
00:46:41.825 --> 00:46:46.363
In your child.
00:46:46.363 --> 00:46:47.697
Your child's still alive.
00:46:47.697 --> 00:46:49.065
They had 13 seizures yesterday, and they're still here.
00:46:49.065 --> 00:46:51.568
That is a miracle in itself.
00:46:51.568 --> 00:46:53.270
We don't always get the miracle we asked for, but there's a
00:46:53.270 --> 00:46:57.073
Miracle in every single one of these children that god's
00:46:57.073 --> 00:46:59.843
Given us.
00:46:59.843 --> 00:47:01.912
Kirk: well, angie, i would love, if you would be willing to, just
00:47:01.912 --> 00:47:07.350
Speak to the mom, the dad, the somebody who might have some
00:47:07.350 --> 00:47:11.922
Sort of miracle that they're praying for right now, and they
00:47:11.922 --> 00:47:14.791
Don't feel worthy to god, and they certainly don't feel worthy
00:47:14.791 --> 00:47:22.365
For god to do a miracle for them.
00:47:22.365 --> 00:47:25.268
What kind of encouragement would you give them?
00:47:25.268 --> 00:47:28.238
Angie: yes, i would just say you are a child of god, and you are
00:47:28.238 --> 00:47:33.643
Constantly on our father's mind.
00:47:33.643 --> 00:47:36.846
Keep praying, keep praying for a miracle for your child.
00:47:36.846 --> 00:47:40.216
Don't stop, do not cease in your prayers.
00:47:40.216 --> 00:47:44.087
The lord is listening.
00:47:44.087 --> 00:47:45.722
He is there with you.
00:47:45.722 --> 00:47:47.057
And even though you may not feel him sometimes, he is there.
00:47:47.057 --> 00:47:50.627
He is going to join you right where you are at.
00:47:50.627 --> 00:47:53.029
And even if you're in a mess like i was, even if you're a
00:47:53.029 --> 00:47:56.599
Complete hot mess like i was, look at what the lord did
00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.436
For me.
00:47:59.436 --> 00:48:00.804
I didn't deserve it.
00:48:00.804 --> 00:48:02.138
I got it though.
00:48:02.138 --> 00:48:03.506
I got that miracle.
00:48:03.506 --> 00:48:04.841
Jade got that miracle.
00:48:04.841 --> 00:48:06.543
So, i would just encourage them to continue to pray, find that
00:48:06.543 --> 00:48:10.447
Miracle in your child every day, look for it.
00:48:10.447 --> 00:48:13.950
It's there, you just may have to look a little harder to find it.
00:48:13.950 --> 00:48:17.988
Kirk: angie, thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
00:48:17.988 --> 00:48:20.557
Angie: thank you so much.
00:48:20.557 --> 00:48:22.058
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:48:22.058 --> 00:48:31.005
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:48:31.005 --> 00:48:35.038
Kirk: is the impossible still possible?
00:48:38.875 --> 00:48:41.978
In a world where analysis and evidence often takes center
00:48:41.978 --> 00:48:45.382
Stage, do miracles have a place?
00:48:45.382 --> 00:48:48.451
Do they even exist?
00:48:48.451 --> 00:48:50.186
Billy hallowell's investigation into the supernatural reminds us
00:48:50.186 --> 00:48:53.823
That miracles still happen, just not always when we want or how
00:48:53.823 --> 00:48:58.728
We expect.
00:48:58.728 --> 00:49:00.130
Here's a few of our takeaways.
00:49:00.130 --> 00:49:02.532
Remember that god is all powerful and always good, even
00:49:02.532 --> 00:49:07.404
Without your miracle.
00:49:07.404 --> 00:49:10.006
God doesn't operate on our timeline, nor does he respond to
00:49:10.006 --> 00:49:13.910
Every desperate prayer with immediate signs and wonders.
00:49:13.910 --> 00:49:17.647
But as billy shared, through the miraculous healing of his own
00:49:17.647 --> 00:49:21.217
Daughter's scoliosis, god is still in the business
00:49:21.217 --> 00:49:24.120
Of miracles.
00:49:24.120 --> 00:49:25.455
He is, after all, the miracle worker.
00:49:25.455 --> 00:49:28.758
It's not god's sovereignty that has diminished.
00:49:28.758 --> 00:49:31.995
Sometimes it's our belief in him.
00:49:31.995 --> 00:49:34.964
Miracles often require faith, and faith demands perseverance.
00:49:34.964 --> 00:49:40.637
Some breakthroughs take years, some even decades, and sometimes
00:49:40.637 --> 00:49:45.041
The answers that we long for don't come in the way we expect.
00:49:45.041 --> 00:49:50.647
So, the real challenge is to trust god's will, to believe
00:49:50.647 --> 00:49:55.218
That he is all powerful and always good, regardless of when
00:49:55.218 --> 00:49:59.522
Or how he chooses to act.
00:49:59.522 --> 00:50:03.059
Learn to be comfortable with tension.
00:50:03.059 --> 00:50:06.496
True faith means surrender.
00:50:06.496 --> 00:50:08.164
It means dying to our own will and trusting in his plan, his
00:50:08.164 --> 00:50:13.203
Purpose, and his perfect timing.
00:50:13.203 --> 00:50:16.306
We're still believing that he can do the impossible.
00:50:16.306 --> 00:50:20.076
Real trust is forged in this kind of tension.
00:50:20.076 --> 00:50:23.980
It endures, it grows, it holds fast to the truth that, even in
00:50:23.980 --> 00:50:28.818
The waiting, god is still working, he's still listening,
00:50:28.818 --> 00:50:31.721
He's still loving, and god is sovereign.
00:50:31.721 --> 00:50:35.458
When we learn to embrace this tension and walk by faith, not
00:50:35.458 --> 00:50:38.761
By sight, we begin to notice the everyday miracles that we often
00:50:38.761 --> 00:50:43.133
Miss: the miracles of life, breath, creativity, and love.
00:50:43.133 --> 00:50:49.772
We see that very lesson in angie howell's story, a journey that
00:50:49.772 --> 00:50:53.643
Is marked by a devastating diagnosis, desperate prayers,
00:50:53.643 --> 00:50:57.981
And then ultimately a divine encounter.
00:50:57.981 --> 00:51:02.285
Trust that god will meet you where you are.
00:51:02.285 --> 00:51:05.855
When angie received jade's devastating diagnosis, remember
00:51:05.855 --> 00:51:09.559
She was crushed.
00:51:09.559 --> 00:51:10.927
She even tried to barter with god, offering her own life in
00:51:10.927 --> 00:51:14.531
Exchange for hers.
00:51:14.531 --> 00:51:17.100
She felt like most of us would, abandoned, convinced that prayer
00:51:17.100 --> 00:51:21.004
Was pointless and that her miracle would never come.
00:51:21.004 --> 00:51:24.674
But even in her despair, god was at work.
00:51:24.674 --> 00:51:27.710
And at her most desperate, he even moved in the most unlikely
00:51:27.710 --> 00:51:31.548
Way, giving her the miracle that she longed for.
00:51:31.548 --> 00:51:34.617
And now, looking back, angie sees what she couldn't see then.
00:51:34.617 --> 00:51:38.555
God had a plan all along.
00:51:38.555 --> 00:51:41.925
Her story is a reminder that, even in our lowest moments, god
00:51:41.925 --> 00:51:45.628
Meets us where we are, and he often moves when we least
00:51:45.628 --> 00:51:48.898
Expect it.
00:51:48.898 --> 00:51:50.233
All we have to do is keep trusting him.
00:51:50.233 --> 00:51:54.204
Look for the little miracles and believe for the big one.
00:51:54.204 --> 00:51:59.075
Before jade's healing, remember, angie believed in jesus, but
00:51:59.075 --> 00:52:02.879
Miracles were another story.
00:52:02.879 --> 00:52:04.981
But that changed the day jade's fatal brain abnormality
00:52:04.981 --> 00:52:09.519
Disappeared without explanation.
00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:12.222
Angie came to see that miracles aren't just possible, they're
00:52:12.222 --> 00:52:15.491
Actually happening every day.
00:52:15.491 --> 00:52:18.127
His fingerprints are everywhere.
00:52:18.127 --> 00:52:20.797
We just have to open our eyes and look.
00:52:20.797 --> 00:52:24.133
We may not see the miracle that we're praying for just yet, but
00:52:24.133 --> 00:52:26.869
That doesn't mean god isn't moving.
00:52:26.869 --> 00:52:28.805
He's hearing us, he sees us, he is with us, and like he did with
00:52:28.805 --> 00:52:33.476
Angie, he will meet us right where we are.
00:52:33.476 --> 00:52:37.146
So, look for the little miracles, keep praying, keep
00:52:37.146 --> 00:52:40.183
Believing, because god still moves, and he just might
00:52:40.183 --> 00:52:44.887
Surprise you.
00:52:44.887 --> 00:52:46.923
Well, that's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:46.923 --> 00:52:49.158
Thanks for watching, and if you've enjoyed this show, don't
00:52:49.158 --> 00:52:52.495
Forget to set your dvr so you never miss an episode.
00:52:52.495 --> 00:52:55.431
And of course, you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:52:55.431 --> 00:52:58.401
Searching for "takeaways" on tbn+ or just visit the
00:52:58.401 --> 00:53:02.639
Kirk cameron on tbn youtube channel.
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:05.675
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:53:05.675 --> 00:53:05.675

Billy Hallowell & Angie Howell: Believing in Miracles | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

July 28, 2025 | 55:2

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