Heather Lawless & Roland Warren: Choosing Life and Strengthening the Family | Takeaways With Kirk Cameron

May 12, 2025 | 53:5

Kirk Cameron is joined by speaker and founder of Reliance Ministries, Heather Lawless, to discuss pro-life choices and president and CEO of Care Net, Roland Warren, sharing a new vision for a pro abundant life approach.

#PersonalStory #Relationships #Marriage #Children #Challenges #Grace #Religion #Humaninterest #Trials-HardTimes #Truth #Family #TalkShow #Commitment #Sex #Abortion #KirkCameron #Pregnancy #TakeawaysWithKirkCameron #RolandWarren

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Heather Lawless & Roland Warren: Choosing Life and Strengthening the Family | Takeaways With Kirk Cameron | May 12, 2025

Kirk cameron: what does it mean to be pro-life?
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Simply stated, it's believing that all humans, born or unborn,
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Have a right to life.
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Today's guests, heather lawless and roland warren are gonna
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Share their personal stories of making pro-life choices in their
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Situations and how god has given them opportunities to come
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Alongside others to help strengthen the family.
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Let's talk about it right now on "takeaways."
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Heather lawless: because she sees how much god loves her with
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Our actions and our words and then we can really tell her
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About the one that created her.
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Roland warren: so a pro-abundant life perspective is about
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Building a family following the model that we see in the first
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Chapter of the first book of the new testament.
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♪♪♪
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Kirk: my first guest, heather lawless is the ceo and founder
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Of reliance ministries.
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Her journey has charged a relentless passion to help women
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And men facing crisis pregnancies, facing broken
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Relationships, and unexpected life challenges.
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She speaks boldly and unashamedly about her own past
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And how god's mercy and grace has brought her to where she
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Is today.
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Heather, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
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Heather: thanks so much for having me.
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Kirk: you know, every time that i'm with you at the women's
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Center and every time that i hear you speak wherever, i'm
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Just, i'm blown away at your personal story, the power of it,
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And the passion with which you are encouraging other people to
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Tackle this issue of life in our country.
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So, can you share with people who aren't familiar with your
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Personal story how that charges what you do and particularly
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Your mom's choice to choose life.
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Heather: my mom had a kidney transplant the day after she
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Graduated high school.
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So all her life she was sick.
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And when she had her kidney transplant, the doctors told her
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Not to do two things, not to go into the medical field and not
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To get pregnant.
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And so she went to nursing school and she got pregnant.
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Kirk: she did both? heather: she did both.
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Heather: both things she was told not to do.
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And so when her family found out she was pregnant, her mom and
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Her parents told her to schedule an abortion.
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And so there was an abortion appointment scheduled to take my
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Life and my mom didn't go to her appointment and she chose life
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For me.
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But after she chose life for me, she chose abortion with my
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Sibling and then she suffered 16 miscarriages.
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So watching my mom go through that was really hard.
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Kirk: wow. wow.
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And why wasn't your mom supposed to go into the medical field?
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Heather: because her immune system was so compromised
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Because of her transplant.
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And so they told her that, you know, she was on
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Immunosuppressants and so being around sickness and disease, it
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Wasn't gonna be good for her immune system.
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And so they told her the same thing about pregnancy is that
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She wouldn't be able to carry a healthy pregnancy is she would
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Die or the baby would die, or both.
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Kirk: my beautiful daughter bella's birth mother had a
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Similar story where she missed her appointment.
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She got a flat tire.
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She didn't have the money to go.
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Something else happened like four times and then she decided
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To keep the baby and place her up for adoption
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And now she's in our family.
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Heather: i love that.
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Kirk: but then in your own story, you faced an
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Unplanned pregnancy.
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Heather: i did. yeah, i did.
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Kirk: how did that impact your whole mission for the rest of
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Your life?
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Heather: my early '20s i was dating a guy that i knew i
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Shouldn't be with and the night that i was gonna break up with
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Him, he asked me to marry him and i said yes, and we got
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Pregnant that night.
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And i remember when i took that positive pregnancy test, it was
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The shock of my life because i never expected that.
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And, you know, abortion was a thought, but choosing life for
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My daughter was the best thing that i ever did.
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She'll be 21 in april and one of the best gifts god's ever
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Given me.
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Kirk: wow.
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So, your daughter's 21 and that's not all.
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Your stepdaughter faced an unplanned pregnancy and how did
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That affect you?
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Heather: yeah, our stepdaughter, my husband's oldest, when she
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Was right out of high school, we kind of had a tough love
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Situation and so we were--she was making some decisions that
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We didn't love, but we told her that we were there for her and
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She actually showed up at the pregnancy center that i was
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Working at and came in for her pregnancy test.
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And i wasn't there that day when she came in for her pregnancy
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Test, but she showed up the next day.
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And my receptionist called me and said, "your daughter's down
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Here, she wants to talk to you."
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And i walked down into the waiting room and there she was
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With this guy and she introduced me to him as her boyfriend, and
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She said, "we have something to tell you.
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I'm pregnant."
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And i said, "oh, i'm gonna be a grandma."
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And her response was, "what?"
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And i said, "well, i'm gonna be a grandma.
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You just said you were pregnant."
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And she said, "you're not mad?"
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And i said, "well, i'm not super excited about the circumstances,
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But how could i be mad about this?
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How could i be mad at the baby?"
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And so i got to witness the first ultrasound with our
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Grandson carter, and she just kept looking up at me saying,
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"you're not mad, you're not mad?"
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And i said, "no, we're not mad."
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And then watching her tell my husband that she was pregnant
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Was when i really understood what god's grace and mercy
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Looked like because she was so scared to tell him that she
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Was pregnant.
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I sat in my car and watched her tell him and her back was to me,
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But my husband was facing me and i watched her step forward and
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Say something to him and i watched him envelop her in the
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Biggest hug i've ever seen and she just kind of fell into
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His arms.
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And i watched all the weight and all the worry of this decision
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And this pregnancy.
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I watched that just disappear in the arms of her father because
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His response to her said, "i love you, i got you, we're gonna
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Do this."
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And he told me later, his first response was, "i'm gonna be
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A papa?"
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And, you know, she was so scared that we were gonna meet her with
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Criticism or shame or guilt and she was just met with love.
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And so it changed our entire relationship with our daughter
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And carter just turned 9.
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So he's one of the best gifts we've ever gotten.
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Kirk: wow, what an amazing moment that is,
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Both when she told you that she's pregnant
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And your husband that she's pregnant.
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And honestly, there's such a mix of emotions there, right?
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I mean, i think you probably would feel as a parent, even
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More than just, i'm not crazy about the circumstances, but
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Just like, what?
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Like, there's a bit of a freak out of like, wait a minute,
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Wait, wait.
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This is like--and at the same time, you know that god in his
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Providence has allowed this to take place.
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There's a beautiful life inside of her womb that's growing and
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That you and your husband had the same type of reaction, which
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Was, "i love you, i love you, i love you."
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And with empathy and grace, you wrapped her up in the security
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Of her family.
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And i know that that is what you show to these girls that come
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Into your center.
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Because i've been to your center and i've seen how you do it and
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Your whole staff and all of this.
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And this has just changed your whole life.
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Just talk a little bit more about how the initial response
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To a woman in crisis changes everything for her.
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Heather: well, first, every pregnancy deserves
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A congratulations.
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It doesn't matter what, how it was conceived.
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It doesn't matter how it happened because if we believe
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God's the author of all life, then we believe that he puts
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Every life in every womb.
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So every pregnancy deserves a congratulations.
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And when we change our mindset and when we can offer every
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Woman a congratulations, everything changes because, you
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Know, she's so terrified to tell anyone that she's pregnant
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Because she's gonna be met with shame and guilt.
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Kirk: and fear. rejection.
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Heather: yeah, when she's met with, "you know what?
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We got you. we got this.
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Let's do this."
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Everything changes for her because she just thinks that no
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One's gonna support her and with that we're all hypocrites.
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And so one of our mottos is, is that we're gonna tell these
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Women that we're gonna be here for them and then we're gonna
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Prove it.
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And sometimes proving it is exhausting and sometimes it's
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Hard, but we're gonna prove it because for so long, people see
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Christians talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk.
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Kirk: heather, you also say that a woman often must first see and
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Understand her own value as a person before she can recognize
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Value in the unborn child.
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Heather: right, she's never ever gonna understand the value of
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The life growing inside of her until she understands her
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Own value.
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And so we--our approach to the pro-life movement is mom, baby,
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And then god.
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So the mom has to know that she's valuable first.
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Then she can understand that her baby is valuable.
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Then she can see how much god loves her because she sees how
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Much god loves her with our actions and our words and then
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We can really tell her about the one that created her.
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But it has to start with her.
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It has to start with her knowing her value first.
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Kirk: that's so important.
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And really what you're doing is you're modeling the grace of
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The gospel.
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And i know that you're not avoiding having the hard
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Conversations with them because you don't wanna see them back in
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Here with more unplanned pregnancies.
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You'd love for them to have planned pregnancies with a
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Husband and a family and a great thing, but you get there by
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Leading with love.
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Heather: yeah, it tells us in scripture that it's his kindness
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That leads us to repentance.
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And so they have to be met with kindness and compassion and love
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First and then they can see how they can change.
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Plus, you can't just tell someone to change without
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Showing them how to change or giving them ways to change or
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Giving them practical resources to help them change.
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You can't just tell someone to change and expect them to do it.
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Kirk: yeah, you talk a lot about grace and truth and how they
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Both need to be there complimenting each other.
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How does that shape the way that you minister to these young
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Women and young men who have these unplanned pregnancies?
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Heather: i think that we try to approach it like jesus
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Approached the woman at the well.
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You know, when he approached her, he didn't first call out
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Her sin or call out what she was doing.
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He approached her with love and compassion first.
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And so for us to offer grace first so that she sees that we
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Are for her, not against her, and then we can tell her
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The truth.
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But those things have to have a balance, just like you said.
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And so telling her that we love her, that we're there for her,
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Showing her the practical resources that we have, and then
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Telling her the truth about her situation.
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You know, it's not supposed to be like this.
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You're not supposed to be having transactional sex with all
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These partners.
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That's not the way it's supposed to be.
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You're supposed to be in a committed relationship with a
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Husband who loves you.
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And then you'll see the abundance and the fruit of
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God's blessing.
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But she won't care about any of that until we can show her
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Grace first.
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Kirk: isn't it awesome how god takes the personal experiences
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Of our life that we say, "what good can come of this?
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This is awful, this is horrible. this is terrible.
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I just wasted this much of my life doing these things
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Over here."
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And god in his divine power and wisdom is able to work all
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Things together for good.
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And now here you have a passionate ministry helping so
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Many people through the very issue that caused you so much
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Pain and you're comforting them.
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Heather: he takes our mess and turns it into a message.
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Kirk: it's beautiful. that's awesome.
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We'll talk more after the break about the ministry that god has
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Given heather to help others.
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And then later, we're going to hear from roland warren about
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The pro-abundant life perspective.
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So stay with us.
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Roland: your call is not just to save the baby, not just to build
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A family, but to make a disciple for jesus christ.
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♪♪♪
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♪♪♪
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♪♪♪
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Kirk: we're back with national speaker, coach, and pro-life
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Advocate heather lawless.
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Heather, i want everyone to know about the amazing ministry that
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You run.
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It's called the reliance ministries and you have a
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Four-part holistic model to serve men and women
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And families.
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Can you tell us about all four parts?
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Heather: yeah, so we wanted to create a model that we thought
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Will help eliminate the need for abortion by giving them
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Practical resources 'cause they're gonna keep having
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Abortions till we eliminate the need for abortion.
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So the first part is reliance center, which is a holistic
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Reproductive health clinic.
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So we basically offer everything that other health organizations
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Offer except for abortion and transgender drugs.
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We do pregnancy tests, ultrasounds, we do well woman
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Exams, prenatal care.
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So all of the reproductive health care that they would
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Need, we offer in reliance center.
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And so other people would call a center like ours a pregnancy
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Center, but we've taken back that word reproductive health.
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And so we call ourselves the holistic reproductive
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Health clinic.
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That's reliance center.
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And then reliance men, our men's program, where we help men learn
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To be bold, godly leaders of their home.
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We have a sexual and pornography addiction recovery program and
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Right now there's like 23 guys walking through that program for
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Freedom from sexual addiction and pornography addiction.
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And we teach men how to be men so they can learn
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How to be good dads.
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Kirk: are these girls teaching men how to be men or do we have
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Some guys in this too.
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Heather: we have guys. kirk: we got guys in there?
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Heather: we have guys, my husband does it and then we have
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An incredible counselor and some other men to help us.
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And then we just purchased a home that will be called
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This--called reliance house.
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And it is a transformational living program where women can
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Live from the time they find out they're pregnant until their
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Babies are a year old.
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So we help them transform their lives and learn to live the
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Abundant life that god designed for them to live.
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Kirk: you've thought of everything, it seems, how about
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The long term resources for men and women who have found
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Themselves in this kind of a situation.
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Heather: yeah, so what we like to say is that we will walk with
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The woman until she tells us not to.
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So when i look a woman in her eyes and tell her, "i'm gonna do
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This with you.
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You do not have to do this alone," we mean that and we mean
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That until she tells us not to.
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So just the other day, i had a woman call me and her son was
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Entering 6th grade and she said, "i need basketball shoes for my
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Kids, for my son."
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And i said, we'll get 'em basketball shoes because we have
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Been walking with her.
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I have been walking with her as a mentor for that long.
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We have women whose kids, you know, are entering kindergarten
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And first grade and they need things for their kids and we'll
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Provide them for them.
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Our goal is to teach them to provide for themselves and to be
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Productive members of society, but we will walk with them
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Emotionally, physically, you know, spiritually until they
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Tell us not to.
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And so it really is a long term relationship because that's what
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We want.
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We wanna build the foundation so that they have something to
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Stand on.
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Kirk: and ultimately be able to step away as a healthy
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Functioning unit as a family, hopefully, and have more kids
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And then be able to disciple those kids.
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Heather, why did you feel it was so important to create
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Reliance men?
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Heather: well, i know in my own marriage, i watched my husband
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Struggle to find his place and to find, you know, his voice as
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A father and as a man.
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And i just saw the lack of mentorship for men of true godly
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Mentorship for men.
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And like i said, the world just tells men that they need to be
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Something that is so completely opposite than what the word of
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God tells us.
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And so when we can have godly men mentor guys and show them,
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You know, the heart of the father, i feel like everything
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Changes because women make decisions based on what their
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Partner tells them.
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And so many times in that room when we ask a guy, "what would
00:15:50.306 --> 00:15:53.343
You do if your girlfriend got pregnant tomorrow?"
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He says, "well, whatever she wants is fine."
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And we say, "you realize you have a voice?
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You have a voice in this.
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You can tell her how you feel."
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And he says, "well, it's her body, her choice."
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And we say, "it's your baby also.
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So you have a say."
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So when we teach them how to speak up and be bold,
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Courageous, and humble, i feel like the whole game changes.
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'cause if he tells a woman, "i will walk with you through this.
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I will do this with you.
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Maybe we're not gonna get married, but i will be a father
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To this baby."
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Everything changes.
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Kirk: heather, you've also said that you feel that the pro-life
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Movement as a whole needs to make a big shift.
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What do you mean by that?
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Heather: well, i said before, before roe v.
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Wade was overturned, i had said that i didn't think the church
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Was ready for roe v. wade
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To be overturned because i feel like the church was just
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Continued to say, "we want you to choose life.
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Choose life, choose life, choose life, choose life."
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We want the mom to choose life, but the fact is, is that if we
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Don't tell her how to choose life and then how her life will
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Look afterwards and offer her those practical resources
00:16:51.434 --> 00:16:54.604
Afterwards, nothing changes.
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Because we've been chanting choose life for 50 years, 50
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Years of roe.
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And now that roe's overturned, we have to say, "choose life and
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I will walk with this with you.
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Choose life and i will be here with you.
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I will prove it."
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And, you know, we say all the time, we don't think that jesus
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Died on the cross for you to just live an okay life.
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He died on the cross for you to live an abundant life.
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And that looks like being a productive member of society,
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Having a job, being a great mom, being a great parent.
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Abortion steals, kills, and destroy and that's what the
00:17:24.167 --> 00:17:27.070
Enemy planned.
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And i think that the pro-life movement of now teaches women
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That we are pro-love, that we're behind them.
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It's not just being pro-life, which is perceived as a
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Political stance, but it's being pro-love, which is an action
00:17:38.414 --> 00:17:41.618
That says, "we're gonna be here for you and we're gonna
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Prove it."
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Kirk: well, i love what you're saying and our friend roland
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Warren, he underlines this as well, is that an unplanned
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Pregnancy really is an opportunity for you or me to
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Disciple someone by presenting the gospel to them, help them to
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See their value in christ, and then be able to walk with them
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Down the long haul and help them to grow in their faith in christ
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And grow in their understanding of family and god's plan
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For them.
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Heather, how have you seen god's hand working in your ministry?
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Heather: oh, we see it. we see it every day.
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We like to say that we get to partner with heaven to do all of
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This because none of this would be happening without him, but he
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Just continues to show us his grace and his mercy with
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Provision, with wisdom, with discernment.
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We're offering something now called abortion pill rescue and
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We get to--when a woman takes the first abortion pill and
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Changes her mind, we get to step in and try to save the life of
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That baby and offer her progesterone.
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And we just had our first abortion pill rescue baby saved.
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She called us three hours after she took the first abortion pill
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And we were able to offer a massive dose of progesterone and
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Save that baby's life.
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And that baby will be born this summer and is healthy and strong
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And the other day we did an ultrasound and i got to see that
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Baby have hiccups and it was jumping in its mother's womb and
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If that was an evidence of god's goodness and his grace, i don't
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Know what it is.
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It's just beautiful.
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We get to see god's goodness and grace every single day.
00:19:14.244 --> 00:19:16.913
Kirk: can you share some stories of some men and women who have
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Walked through reliance and experienced the grace of
00:19:20.984 --> 00:19:25.054
God there?
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Heather: yeah, i think about a couple that came to us actually,
00:19:26.556 --> 00:19:30.093
A little over a year and a half ago, jeff and candice.
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And they came in and, you know, candice was--they were in not,
00:19:32.996 --> 00:19:37.900
Not in a good place at all.
00:19:37.900 --> 00:19:39.235
And she just found out she was pregnant, but she was pretty far
00:19:39.235 --> 00:19:42.772
Along in her pregnancy.
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And we got to witness them go from being homeless, living in
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An rv, you know, with this unplanned pregnancy to now they
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Are married, they have a home.
00:19:52.715 --> 00:19:54.584
They gave birth to their daughter and little gracie, she
00:19:54.584 --> 00:19:56.686
Was born with down syndrome and she's the most beautiful baby
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I've ever seen.
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And she actually, candice was working towards getting custody
00:20:01.491 --> 00:20:05.061
Of some other children that had been placed in other people's
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Care and she got custody of her children back.
00:20:07.730 --> 00:20:09.966
And now they are married and they're a family filled with
00:20:09.966 --> 00:20:13.336
Love and hope and joy.
00:20:13.336 --> 00:20:15.104
And the other day, she came in to get some clothes and some
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Diapers and i hugged her and i just said, "we're so proud
00:20:18.408 --> 00:20:21.044
Of you."
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And she said, "this will always be home for us.
00:20:22.412 --> 00:20:23.813
This will always be a place that we run to."
00:20:23.813 --> 00:20:26.182
And to be a place of hope and restoration and a place where
00:20:26.182 --> 00:20:30.720
People can run to, knowing that we'll always be there for them
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.157
Is just such a gift.
00:20:34.157 --> 00:20:35.525
And there's a million stories that i could tell you about
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Women like that that have chosen life.
00:20:38.461 --> 00:20:40.163
Kirk: i'm sure.
00:20:40.163 --> 00:20:41.497
Heather, what you're doing is so important.
00:20:41.497 --> 00:20:42.865
It's so inspiring and it's inspiring for so many other
00:20:42.865 --> 00:20:45.601
People who have maybe secret pasts, pasts that are filled
00:20:45.601 --> 00:20:49.572
With shame and guilt and they're wondering, "god, could you
00:20:49.572 --> 00:20:51.974
Redeem this for me?"
00:20:51.974 --> 00:20:53.576
How can people find out more about reliance?
00:20:53.576 --> 00:20:55.645
Heather: yeah, they can go to relianceministries.com
00:20:55.645 --> 00:20:58.247
Or reliancecenter.org.
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They can find me on social media.
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It's just heather3130.
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I'll be glad to reach out.
00:21:04.253 --> 00:21:05.588
And we never want a woman to feel like she, especially if
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She's post abortive.
00:21:09.225 --> 00:21:10.560
We want her to know that there's freedom and healing for her and
00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:13.329
We'd love to share that message with her and, yeah, they can
00:21:13.329 --> 00:21:16.599
Reach out any of those ways.
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:18.534
Kirk: what encouragement would you give to someone who might be
00:21:18.534 --> 00:21:22.572
Watching right now or has a granddaughter or a person in
00:21:22.572 --> 00:21:28.010
Their life who's facing an unplanned pregnancy and they're
00:21:28.010 --> 00:21:30.346
Really struggling, they don't know what to do.
00:21:30.346 --> 00:21:32.081
What kind of encouragement could you give them?
00:21:32.081 --> 00:21:34.083
Heather: i think that i would just tell them to remember that
00:21:34.083 --> 00:21:36.753
God placed that baby in that womb for such a time as this.
00:21:36.753 --> 00:21:40.456
And that this baby wasn't a surprise to him and so it
00:21:40.456 --> 00:21:44.894
Deserves first a congratulations.
00:21:44.894 --> 00:21:46.829
And then second, that wraparound care that says, "i love you, you
00:21:46.829 --> 00:21:51.000
Can do this."
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.335
Because then they will never ever regret loving that baby and
00:21:52.335 --> 00:21:55.805
Loving that mama and telling her, "you got this.
00:21:55.805 --> 00:21:58.274
Let's do this together." they'll never regret that.
00:21:58.274 --> 00:22:01.644
Kirk: that's so great. thank you so much.
00:22:01.644 --> 00:22:03.079
Thanks for what you do and thanks for
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:04.414
Coming on "takeaways."
00:22:04.414 --> 00:22:05.748
Heather: thank you. thanks.
00:22:05.748 --> 00:22:07.350
Kirk: up next, we'll be joined by roland warren to discuss
00:22:07.350 --> 00:22:10.219
God's design for strengthening the whole family.
00:22:10.219 --> 00:22:13.222
♪♪♪
00:22:13.222 --> 00:22:20.000
♪♪♪
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:20.364
♪♪♪
00:22:20.831 --> 00:22:25.636
Kirk: joining us again on "takeaways" is author and
00:22:27.604 --> 00:22:30.073
President and ceo of care net, a pro-abundant life ministry.
00:22:30.073 --> 00:22:35.646
Roland, thanks so much for coming back on "takeaways."
00:22:35.646 --> 00:22:37.314
Roland: great to be back with you.
00:22:37.314 --> 00:22:38.649
Kirk: i think the last time we were together, we were
00:22:38.649 --> 00:22:40.117
Virtually connected.
00:22:40.117 --> 00:22:41.452
Roland: yes, yes, i was talking about that, yeah.
00:22:41.452 --> 00:22:42.786
Kirk: and now here you are in the flesh.
00:22:42.786 --> 00:22:44.121
Roland: absolutely, and it's the best way to be, right?
00:22:44.121 --> 00:22:45.456
Kirk: you've got a new book that is just out, "the alternative to
00:22:45.456 --> 00:22:49.026
Abortion: why we must be pro-abundant life."
00:22:49.026 --> 00:22:53.497
I love that.
00:22:53.497 --> 00:22:54.865
As christians, obviously, we know where you're pulling that
00:22:54.865 --> 00:22:57.501
From, but why do you think it's important we move from pro-life
00:22:57.501 --> 00:23:02.573
To the upgraded pro-abundant life?
00:23:02.573 --> 00:23:05.342
Roland: well, you know, it's interesting because that verse
00:23:05.342 --> 00:23:07.744
In john 10:10 is jesus's why statement, why he came.
00:23:07.744 --> 00:23:10.447
He came that we might have life and then have life abundantly.
00:23:10.447 --> 00:23:13.250
And when i started working with care net and i started to kind
00:23:13.250 --> 00:23:15.486
Of take a look at the pro-life movement and think about what we
00:23:15.486 --> 00:23:17.621
Were doing there.
00:23:17.621 --> 00:23:18.956
And what became very clear to me was that we actually weren't
00:23:18.956 --> 00:23:22.459
Necessarily anchoring what we were doing firmly in jesus's why
00:23:22.459 --> 00:23:24.995
Statement and specifically, when you look at that verse in the
00:23:24.995 --> 00:23:28.665
Greek and you look at what he's talked about in terms of life,
00:23:28.665 --> 00:23:30.901
He's talking about two types of life, bios, b-i-o-s, where we
00:23:30.901 --> 00:23:33.837
Get the word biology, and then zoe, which is a unique type of
00:23:33.837 --> 00:23:36.874
Spiritual life that only comes from a relationship with god.
00:23:36.874 --> 00:23:40.310
And what jesus is basically saying in that verse is that i
00:23:40.310 --> 00:23:42.713
Came to link your bios to my zoe.
00:23:42.713 --> 00:23:45.082
Kirk: excuse me.
00:23:45.082 --> 00:23:46.416
Roland: your bios to my zoe. that you might--
00:23:46.416 --> 00:23:49.019
Kirk: you came to link a bios with a zoe?
00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:51.588
Roland: with a zoe.
00:23:51.588 --> 00:23:52.923
That you might be heartbeats that are heaven bound.
00:23:52.923 --> 00:23:54.825
And what i realized was that, you know, you can be an atheist
00:23:54.825 --> 00:23:56.960
And be pro-life, but we're called to do more than just save
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.564
Babies in that context.
00:24:00.564 --> 00:24:02.599
We're called to reach them, build strong families, but also
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.602
Help them become disciples of jesus christ.
00:24:05.602 --> 00:24:07.437
And when you frame it this way and you move beyond being sort
00:24:07.437 --> 00:24:09.973
Of pro-life to being pro-abundant life, what you
00:24:09.973 --> 00:24:12.543
Actually are doing is you're focusing on god's design for
00:24:12.543 --> 00:24:15.045
Family and you're linking it to god's call to discipleship.
00:24:15.045 --> 00:24:18.115
And that changes how you look at the issue and it actually puts
00:24:18.115 --> 00:24:21.051
The church at the forefront of the issue rather than the church
00:24:21.051 --> 00:24:24.688
At the back of the issue, which is the way that it is in
00:24:24.688 --> 00:24:26.657
The public square.
00:24:26.657 --> 00:24:27.991
Kirk: that makes so much sense.
00:24:27.991 --> 00:24:30.093
And that bios and zoe that you just talked about, with regard
00:24:30.093 --> 00:24:34.197
To the definitions of life, well, that makes so much sense
00:24:34.197 --> 00:24:36.767
When we see the word death in the scriptures too because you
00:24:36.767 --> 00:24:39.169
See paul using different definitions.
00:24:39.169 --> 00:24:41.338
We understand that some people will die.
00:24:41.338 --> 00:24:42.806
Well, jesus said, "even though a man may die, yet shall he live
00:24:42.806 --> 00:24:46.476
And if you believe in me, you'll never die."
00:24:46.476 --> 00:24:48.178
Well, we're talking about spiritual life and physical
00:24:48.178 --> 00:24:52.082
Life, and you're just saying they ought to be connected.
00:24:52.082 --> 00:24:54.651
They ought to be inextricably linked when we come to the
00:24:54.651 --> 00:24:57.521
Pro-life issues.
00:24:57.521 --> 00:24:58.889
So this is not about arguing over health care rights or just
00:24:58.889 --> 00:25:03.060
An argument for intellectuals sake, but this is about bringing
00:25:03.060 --> 00:25:07.965
People into kingdom life and eternal life.
00:25:07.965 --> 00:25:11.301
And that has everything to do with the whole family.
00:25:11.301 --> 00:25:13.737
Roland: absolutely, 'cause when you start to think about this
00:25:13.737 --> 00:25:15.939
Issue through a pro-abundant life perspective and you see a
00:25:15.939 --> 00:25:18.175
Woman who's facing a pregnancy decision, your first thought
00:25:18.175 --> 00:25:20.944
Isn't, well, what kind of material support does she need
00:25:20.944 --> 00:25:23.880
Or even who do i need to vote for so that she can't have
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.416
An abortion.
00:25:26.416 --> 00:25:27.784
Your first thought should be as a christian is, is she a
00:25:27.784 --> 00:25:30.687
Follower of christ?
00:25:30.687 --> 00:25:32.022
She needs to become a disciple of jesus christ.
00:25:32.022 --> 00:25:33.857
The child growing inside of her needs to be a disciple of
00:25:33.857 --> 00:25:36.026
Jesus christ.
00:25:36.026 --> 00:25:37.394
The guy who got her pregnant needs to be a disciple of
00:25:37.394 --> 00:25:38.996
Jesus christ.
00:25:38.996 --> 00:25:40.364
And so it frames the life issue in the context of jesus's
00:25:40.364 --> 00:25:43.433
Why statement.
00:25:43.433 --> 00:25:44.835
And the other reason why it's so important is, you know, one of
00:25:44.835 --> 00:25:47.604
The things that's been missing in the pro-life movement for so
00:25:47.604 --> 00:25:49.773
Long, and i can say this as someone who faced the pregnancy
00:25:49.773 --> 00:25:52.943
Decision and had a girlfriend and then now my wife of 42 years
00:25:52.943 --> 00:25:57.714
Was pregnant when we were both undergrads at princeton.
00:25:57.714 --> 00:26:00.651
One of the key drivers that kind of puts abortion out of the
00:26:00.651 --> 00:26:03.887
Picture is the role of the guy.
00:26:03.887 --> 00:26:06.490
That the guy steps into that role
00:26:06.490 --> 00:26:08.525
And steps into a role there.
00:26:08.525 --> 00:26:10.227
And when you think about that in the context of scripture, you
00:26:10.227 --> 00:26:12.295
See that the most celebrated unplanned pregnancy that we know
00:26:12.295 --> 00:26:15.365
About is the birth of christ.
00:26:15.365 --> 00:26:16.733
And mary, like my wife, was facing an unplanned pregnancy
00:26:16.733 --> 00:26:20.037
From a human perspective.
00:26:20.037 --> 00:26:21.371
Way she got pregnant was very different, but the consequences
00:26:21.371 --> 00:26:23.940
Of it were exactly the same.
00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:26.009
And what did god do to make sure that mary's unplanned pregnancy
00:26:26.009 --> 00:26:28.812
Wasn't a crisis pregnancy?
00:26:28.812 --> 00:26:30.213
He called--sent an angel to joseph and told joseph to do two
00:26:30.213 --> 00:26:33.316
Things, to be a husband to her and a father to the child
00:26:33.316 --> 00:26:36.219
Growing inside of her.
00:26:36.219 --> 00:26:37.554
So, god's response to an unplanned pregnancy from a human
00:26:37.554 --> 00:26:40.724
Perspective was what?
00:26:40.724 --> 00:26:42.159
To build a family.
00:26:42.159 --> 00:26:43.794
And so when you look at how we framed a lot of the pro-life
00:26:43.794 --> 00:26:46.296
Issues, it's so, okay, we're gonna help the proverbial mary
00:26:46.296 --> 00:26:48.532
And save the proverbial jesus, but we're not trying to reach
00:26:48.532 --> 00:26:51.234
Joseph, but that's what god did.
00:26:51.234 --> 00:26:52.569
He sent an angel to joseph.
00:26:52.569 --> 00:26:54.104
And the other thing was so central there is that the first
00:26:54.104 --> 00:26:56.907
Thing that he told joseph to do was what?
00:26:56.907 --> 00:26:58.975
Do not be afraid to take mary as your what?
00:26:58.975 --> 00:27:01.144
Wife.
00:27:01.144 --> 00:27:02.479
And so what you see in the story of mary and joseph is the
00:27:02.479 --> 00:27:05.215
Sanctity of marriage and family and the sanctity of life, and
00:27:05.215 --> 00:27:08.618
The order of it.
00:27:08.618 --> 00:27:09.986
The sanctity of marriage and family, then he tells them who
00:27:09.986 --> 00:27:11.955
Jesus is the sanctity of life.
00:27:11.955 --> 00:27:13.290
So, a pro-abundant life perspective is about building a
00:27:13.290 --> 00:27:16.359
Family, following the model that we see in the first chapter of
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:19.563
The first book of the new testament.
00:27:19.563 --> 00:27:21.865
And that's the key, the first step in terms of moving into a
00:27:21.865 --> 00:27:24.968
Pro-abundant life perspective.
00:27:24.968 --> 00:27:26.336
You're actually trying to build strong families, not just save
00:27:26.336 --> 00:27:28.705
Babies as god honoring as that is, and it frames it in
00:27:28.705 --> 00:27:31.608
That context.
00:27:31.608 --> 00:27:32.976
That's how we get that pro- abundant life perspective in
00:27:32.976 --> 00:27:34.845
Terms of god's design.
00:27:34.845 --> 00:27:36.546
Kirk: ron, why does this sound new within the church?
00:27:36.546 --> 00:27:42.486
Is this a new way to look at pro-life, being family centered,
00:27:42.486 --> 00:27:47.758
Discipleship forward or are you just repackaging something that
00:27:47.758 --> 00:27:56.166
The church has always known?
00:27:56.166 --> 00:27:57.534
Roland: it's something that the church has always known, but
00:27:57.534 --> 00:27:59.436
See, i think we kind of lost our way because in many ways we kind
00:27:59.436 --> 00:28:03.607
Of framed the movement based on a narrative that was created by
00:28:03.607 --> 00:28:06.510
The other side.
00:28:06.510 --> 00:28:07.844
The other side brought the issue into the public square in 1973,
00:28:07.844 --> 00:28:10.781
Said it's about a woman and a question mark.
00:28:10.781 --> 00:28:13.216
And then they started defining the question mark that it's
00:28:13.216 --> 00:28:15.819
Complicated, it's choice, all these different things that were
00:28:15.819 --> 00:28:18.288
Immutable and changeable.
00:28:18.288 --> 00:28:20.690
And we responded, no, it's about saving the baby.
00:28:20.690 --> 00:28:23.860
And so you had that scenario, a woman in question mark us about
00:28:23.860 --> 00:28:27.063
Saving the baby, and then we said, no, no, we're not just
00:28:27.063 --> 00:28:31.201
Gonna stand there because they're saying that all you want
00:28:31.201 --> 00:28:33.537
To do is just save babies.
00:28:33.537 --> 00:28:35.138
They started attacking us.
00:28:35.138 --> 00:28:36.473
We said, well, it's not just about saving babies, it's about
00:28:36.473 --> 00:28:38.008
Helping women and saving babies.
00:28:38.008 --> 00:28:39.943
So we created a framework that basically was there about the
00:28:39.943 --> 00:28:44.281
Woman and the question mark, and we're about the woman and the
00:28:44.281 --> 00:28:46.650
Baby, and that was the paradigm that a lot of people operate in.
00:28:46.650 --> 00:28:49.452
So you hear often in the movement, "love them both," but
00:28:49.452 --> 00:28:52.722
What you see in scripture in the first chapter, the first book of
00:28:52.722 --> 00:28:57.127
The new testament, is what you see god doing is saying, no, no,
00:28:57.127 --> 00:28:59.729
It's about loving them all.
00:28:59.729 --> 00:29:01.698
He created a family.
00:29:01.698 --> 00:29:03.233
See, jesus--the scripture could have been written in a way so
00:29:03.233 --> 00:29:06.169
That jesus came into the world via a single mother.
00:29:06.169 --> 00:29:08.805
That would have accomplished god's purpose to bring a savior,
00:29:08.805 --> 00:29:11.341
But it would have violated a design, his high idea, this high
00:29:11.341 --> 00:29:14.978
Ideal for family.
00:29:14.978 --> 00:29:16.346
So jesus came into the world in a covenant relationship.
00:29:16.346 --> 00:29:19.516
Mary and joseph were betrothed.
00:29:19.516 --> 00:29:21.818
They were in a covenant relationship and jesus came into
00:29:21.818 --> 00:29:24.955
That structure that accomplished god's purpose without violating
00:29:24.955 --> 00:29:28.358
His design.
00:29:28.358 --> 00:29:29.693
In other words, the sanctity of marriage and family was built
00:29:29.693 --> 00:29:31.995
Into how jesus came into the world.
00:29:31.995 --> 00:29:34.064
When we matched our response to a narrative that was created by
00:29:34.064 --> 00:29:37.934
The other side, it excluded men by design 'cause they don't
00:29:37.934 --> 00:29:42.072
Need men.
00:29:42.072 --> 00:29:43.406
They don't want men involved, but god in his wisdom, what did
00:29:43.406 --> 00:29:47.744
He do when mary was facing unplanned pregnancy?
00:29:47.744 --> 00:29:49.913
Kirk: sends an angel to joseph.
00:29:49.913 --> 00:29:51.248
Roland: to joseph.
00:29:51.248 --> 00:29:52.616
So each one of them had a call from an angel and he had a very
00:29:52.616 --> 00:29:55.619
Specific task to do.
00:29:55.619 --> 00:29:56.987
And here's what the data shows, 86% of the women who have
00:29:56.987 --> 00:30:00.624
Abortions are unmarried.
00:30:00.624 --> 00:30:02.592
So when i tell people all the time, explain how you're gonna
00:30:02.592 --> 00:30:04.628
Solve the abortion issue without the marriage and family issue,
00:30:04.628 --> 00:30:08.531
87% of women that have abortions are unmarried.
00:30:08.531 --> 00:30:12.669
The two things are linked.
00:30:12.669 --> 00:30:14.037
So we see the model in the first chapter, the first book of the
00:30:14.037 --> 00:30:16.273
New testament, and because in my view, because we built the
00:30:16.273 --> 00:30:19.242
Movement around a framework that was presented by the other side,
00:30:19.242 --> 00:30:21.544
We lost that and then we start to move from that.
00:30:21.544 --> 00:30:23.813
Kirk: that's right.
00:30:23.813 --> 00:30:25.181
And you know that always happens in every subject.
00:30:25.181 --> 00:30:26.683
Whether you're talking about gender reality or you're talking
00:30:26.683 --> 00:30:28.685
About the abortion pro-choice, pro-life movement, or you're
00:30:28.685 --> 00:30:32.522
Talking about education or politics or anything.
00:30:32.522 --> 00:30:34.858
If you let the opposition frame the narrative, if you let them
00:30:34.858 --> 00:30:39.296
Define the rules of the game and define the terms, you've
00:30:39.296 --> 00:30:42.165
Already lost.
00:30:42.165 --> 00:30:44.167
You can't do that.
00:30:44.167 --> 00:30:45.535
We've got to let god and his word, define the terms, set the
00:30:45.535 --> 00:30:51.408
Boundaries, and explain the game that we're playing.
00:30:51.408 --> 00:30:54.611
Now, we can go to war.
00:30:54.611 --> 00:30:57.414
Now we can run the plays.
00:30:57.414 --> 00:30:59.716
Roland: yes, absolutely.
00:30:59.716 --> 00:31:01.518
And what happens?
00:31:01.518 --> 00:31:02.852
Going back to john 10:10, bios and zoe.
00:31:02.852 --> 00:31:05.155
When a woman has a guy who says, "i'll be a husband to you and a
00:31:05.155 --> 00:31:08.191
Father to the child growing inside of you," guess what she's
00:31:08.191 --> 00:31:10.226
More likely to do?
00:31:10.226 --> 00:31:11.594
Give the child life, bios.
00:31:11.594 --> 00:31:13.997
So, really what i'm talking about, i mean, it's new, but
00:31:13.997 --> 00:31:16.900
It's actually ancient.
00:31:16.900 --> 00:31:18.268
It's in the first chapter of the first book of the new testament.
00:31:18.268 --> 00:31:21.037
It's anchored specifically in jesus's why statement.
00:31:21.037 --> 00:31:23.740
He came that we might have life and have it abundantly.
00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:26.176
Jesus wasn't just pro-life, he was pro-abundant life and we all
00:31:26.176 --> 00:31:29.679
Should be pro-abundant life if we're christians.
00:31:29.679 --> 00:31:31.481
And so i'm encouraging christians to stop calling
00:31:31.481 --> 00:31:33.316
Themselves pro-life, but to call themselves pro-abundant life.
00:31:33.316 --> 00:31:35.752
Not 'cause i say so, but because the word of god actually shows
00:31:35.752 --> 00:31:38.521
You that in john 10:10.
00:31:38.521 --> 00:31:40.023
That's how jesus came and what he called us to do.
00:31:40.023 --> 00:31:42.158
Kirk: yeah, and there's lots of questions i'd love to talk with
00:31:42.158 --> 00:31:43.793
You later about, well, you know, if a guy gets a girl pregnant,
00:31:43.793 --> 00:31:46.429
Should he just jump in and marry her and say, "let's go" and, you
00:31:46.429 --> 00:31:48.999
Know, well, wait, that's maybe not the best thing to do.
00:31:48.999 --> 00:31:51.267
But remind us about your personal story, your backstory
00:31:51.267 --> 00:31:54.637
That really was influential and you becoming so
00:31:54.637 --> 00:31:58.308
Pro-abundant life.
00:31:58.308 --> 00:31:59.642
Roland: yeah, as i kind of said a little bit, you know, when i
00:31:59.642 --> 00:32:01.811
Was a 20-year-old college student at princeton, my
00:32:01.811 --> 00:32:05.048
Girlfriend at the time, now my wife of 42 years, we faced an
00:32:05.048 --> 00:32:08.351
Unplanned pregnancy.
00:32:08.351 --> 00:32:09.686
She was 19, i was 20.
00:32:09.686 --> 00:32:11.388
She was a sophomore, i was a junior.
00:32:11.388 --> 00:32:13.490
She went to student health services to get the
00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:16.026
Pregnancy test.
00:32:16.026 --> 00:32:17.360
The nurse administers it, it's positive and without taking an
00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:20.663
Extra gulp of air says, "now, of course, you're gonna have
00:32:20.663 --> 00:32:22.499
An abortion."
00:32:22.499 --> 00:32:23.867
And my wife, yvette says, "well, i don't wanna have an abortion.
00:32:23.867 --> 00:32:25.635
I wanna have my baby. i wanna get married."
00:32:25.635 --> 00:32:27.237
The nurse says, "well, how are you gonna graduate from
00:32:27.237 --> 00:32:28.805
Princeton with a baby?"
00:32:28.805 --> 00:32:30.140
My wife persists, she says, "well, okay, what do you want to
00:32:30.140 --> 00:32:31.741
Do when you graduate?"
00:32:31.741 --> 00:32:33.076
"i wanna become a doctor."
00:32:33.076 --> 00:32:34.411
"how do you become a doctor with a baby?"
00:32:34.411 --> 00:32:35.745
Anyway, we didn't do that.
00:32:35.745 --> 00:32:37.380
We ended up getting married and having our having our son and my
00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:41.785
Wife went on to graduate from princeton, went on to become
00:32:41.785 --> 00:32:44.120
A doctor.
00:32:44.120 --> 00:32:45.455
She's been practicing almost 30 years now.
00:32:45.455 --> 00:32:46.823
So, i saw firsthand following god's design and what happens
00:32:46.823 --> 00:32:51.895
There, but i also saw firsthand my role.
00:32:51.895 --> 00:32:54.230
'cause for the first five months of her pregnancy, there was one
00:32:54.230 --> 00:32:57.233
Person who knew she was pregnant other than her it was me.
00:32:57.233 --> 00:32:59.769
You think i had an influence?
00:32:59.769 --> 00:33:01.438
Of course i did. of course i did.
00:33:01.438 --> 00:33:04.140
But my wife, everything i talked about, she knew that she had a
00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:06.743
Guy like joseph, who said, i'll be a husband to you and a father
00:33:06.743 --> 00:33:09.345
To the child growing inside of you.
00:33:09.345 --> 00:33:11.247
One of the key things that people miss is that a woman
00:33:11.247 --> 00:33:13.550
Facing a pregnancy decision from conception to birth, she's not
00:33:13.550 --> 00:33:17.487
Making that decision solely based on the support she has
00:33:17.487 --> 00:33:20.290
From conception to birth.
00:33:20.290 --> 00:33:21.724
She's talking about what support she does or doesn't have
00:33:21.724 --> 00:33:24.360
After birth.
00:33:24.360 --> 00:33:25.695
This issue's about nine months and one second.
00:33:25.695 --> 00:33:27.931
See, afterwards, that's where her hopes and her dreams and her
00:33:27.931 --> 00:33:30.633
Aspirations for her life are.
00:33:30.633 --> 00:33:32.235
That's what the nurse was talking to my wife about.
00:33:32.235 --> 00:33:34.604
That's what everyone's talking to a woman about at
00:33:34.604 --> 00:33:36.506
Planned parenthood.
00:33:36.506 --> 00:33:37.874
How are you gonna become that thing?
00:33:37.874 --> 00:33:39.209
And if a woman can't figure out how she's gonna solve that,
00:33:39.209 --> 00:33:42.078
She's much more likely to have the abortion, which is why it's
00:33:42.078 --> 00:33:45.014
Critical in this issue to engage the father of the baby.
00:33:45.014 --> 00:33:47.817
And let me address that question.
00:33:47.817 --> 00:33:49.519
Even if the woman is not gonna marry the guy, and i'm not
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:52.655
Saying in every situation that the woman should marry the guy,
00:33:52.655 --> 00:33:55.024
It's not practical and maybe not even the best in most cases.
00:33:55.024 --> 00:33:58.094
But here's the thing that we--reason why we have to still
00:33:58.094 --> 00:33:59.996
Talk about marriage.
00:33:59.996 --> 00:34:01.464
If you want to break the cycle, right?
00:34:01.464 --> 00:34:03.733
If you wanna break the cycle of abortion, because the reason
00:34:03.733 --> 00:34:06.569
That she's facing this pregnancy decision is because she's
00:34:06.569 --> 00:34:09.305
Dealing to motherhood, fatherhood, sex and marriage,
00:34:09.305 --> 00:34:11.341
And god's designed for those things.
00:34:11.341 --> 00:34:13.209
And so what do you want--so even if she--if you're gonna support
00:34:13.209 --> 00:34:16.346
Her, you still want her to have that reconstructed.
00:34:16.346 --> 00:34:19.315
Why?
00:34:19.315 --> 00:34:20.650
So that the next time she has an opportunity to have sex, that
00:34:20.650 --> 00:34:22.952
She's doing it in god's design.
00:34:22.952 --> 00:34:24.854
And when she's talking to the children that she has, even as a
00:34:24.854 --> 00:34:27.724
Single mom, that she's reinstilling god's design so you
00:34:27.724 --> 00:34:30.460
Break the cycle.
00:34:30.460 --> 00:34:31.828
Otherwise, you see her back in 18 months with a new pregnancy
00:34:31.828 --> 00:34:34.564
Or you see her daughter in 18 years or someone her son got
00:34:34.564 --> 00:34:36.699
Pregnant in 18 years.
00:34:36.699 --> 00:34:38.067
That is not ministry. that's business.
00:34:38.067 --> 00:34:40.403
Jesus said, no, his model was come as you are, but don't stay
00:34:40.403 --> 00:34:43.706
As you came, be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
00:34:43.706 --> 00:34:46.509
And the transforming institutions that god has
00:34:46.509 --> 00:34:49.279
Designed are his design for family, fatherhood, motherhood,
00:34:49.279 --> 00:34:52.749
All those things are all built on, you know, on that construct
00:34:52.749 --> 00:34:55.752
Of his design.
00:34:55.752 --> 00:34:57.086
Kirk: i love this.
00:34:57.086 --> 00:34:58.454
Roland, the alternative to abortion is pro-abundant life.
00:34:58.454 --> 00:35:02.659
Man, if you haven't gotten this book, you need to get this.
00:35:02.659 --> 00:35:05.795
This is an important book and that's why i love what you're
00:35:05.795 --> 00:35:08.698
Talking about is you're talking about multigenerational
00:35:08.698 --> 00:35:12.435
Discipleship of young men as well.
00:35:12.435 --> 00:35:17.006
That men obviously have a huge factor in this.
00:35:17.006 --> 00:35:21.010
You can't get pregnant without them.
00:35:21.010 --> 00:35:22.645
And these are guys who need to have an understanding that this
00:35:22.645 --> 00:35:26.382
Is not about sex and having baby mamas.
00:35:26.382 --> 00:35:29.452
This is about care and commitment and marriage to
00:35:29.452 --> 00:35:33.590
Produce children for the glory of god and that needs to be
00:35:33.590 --> 00:35:36.693
Baked into their thinking long before their hormones begin
00:35:36.693 --> 00:35:41.397
Driving them.
00:35:41.397 --> 00:35:42.732
Roland: absolutely and that's the role of the family.
00:35:42.732 --> 00:35:44.234
Look, we did a national survey with lifeweight and we surveyed
00:35:44.234 --> 00:35:47.170
Women who'd had abortions and we asked them, "who did you talk to
00:35:47.170 --> 00:35:49.572
About your abortion decision?"
00:35:49.572 --> 00:35:51.074
Number one was the guy who got her pregnant.
00:35:51.074 --> 00:35:52.475
And we said, "who was the most influential in your decision
00:35:52.475 --> 00:35:55.044
To abort?"
00:35:55.044 --> 00:35:56.412
Guy got her pregnant.
00:35:56.412 --> 00:35:57.747
Did the same survey with post aborted men.
00:35:57.747 --> 00:35:59.115
Men who had participated in abortion, asked him the
00:35:59.115 --> 00:36:00.817
Same question.
00:36:00.817 --> 00:36:02.151
"who did she talk to about the abortion decision?"
00:36:02.151 --> 00:36:03.686
He said, "me?"
00:36:03.686 --> 00:36:05.054
"who was the most influential?" he said, "me."
00:36:05.054 --> 00:36:06.789
So the women who have abortions and the men who participate are
00:36:06.789 --> 00:36:09.092
Both saying that the guy is the most influential in
00:36:09.092 --> 00:36:12.128
That decision.
00:36:12.128 --> 00:36:13.463
I saw that in my own life. i saw that in my own life.
00:36:13.463 --> 00:36:16.266
I was the most influential in my wife's decision in that context.
00:36:16.266 --> 00:36:19.502
It was still her body and still her choice, but i was
00:36:19.502 --> 00:36:22.005
An influencer.
00:36:22.005 --> 00:36:23.373
And so for so long in this movement, we haven't done what
00:36:23.373 --> 00:36:25.975
God did.
00:36:25.975 --> 00:36:27.343
We haven't gone and pursued the josephs and called them in that
00:36:27.343 --> 00:36:30.146
Way to be a husband to her and a father to a child growing inside
00:36:30.146 --> 00:36:32.515
Of her.
00:36:32.515 --> 00:36:33.850
We haven't tried to instill that construct and that value into
00:36:33.850 --> 00:36:35.752
Women facing pregnancy decisions, even if they're gonna
00:36:35.752 --> 00:36:38.021
Be single moms so you break the cycle and as a result, we just
00:36:38.021 --> 00:36:41.291
Can replicate over and over again and really that's
00:36:41.291 --> 00:36:44.127
Not ministry, that's business.
00:36:44.127 --> 00:36:45.962
And i know i've spent a lot of years in business and we're
00:36:45.962 --> 00:36:48.197
Called to be transformative, which means you have to focus on
00:36:48.197 --> 00:36:50.533
Those transforming institutions that god designed and that's
00:36:50.533 --> 00:36:53.703
What this is about.
00:36:53.703 --> 00:36:55.071
Kirk: yeah, and that's--that really concerns me because this
00:36:55.071 --> 00:36:59.442
Is not business, this is transformational ministry and
00:36:59.442 --> 00:37:02.645
That's what your book's about.
00:37:02.645 --> 00:37:03.980
So roland, thank you.
00:37:03.980 --> 00:37:05.348
After the break, we're gonna talk more with roland about the
00:37:05.348 --> 00:37:07.550
Role that the church can play in all of this, including
00:37:07.550 --> 00:37:11.120
Actionable things that you can do as the family of faith.
00:37:11.120 --> 00:37:14.590
♪♪♪
00:37:14.590 --> 00:37:21.006
♪♪♪
00:37:21.006 --> 00:37:21.999
♪♪♪
00:37:22.466 --> 00:37:27.271
Kirk: we're back with roland warren.
00:37:28.839 --> 00:37:30.708
We're talking about not just being pro-life, but pro-abundant
00:37:30.708 --> 00:37:34.345
Life and putting the whole issue of life within the context of
00:37:34.345 --> 00:37:39.650
The great commandment and the great commission.
00:37:39.650 --> 00:37:43.520
And i love what you were showing me here in chapter nine, that
00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:48.092
Discipleship is linked to the way god defines family and that
00:37:48.092 --> 00:37:53.597
These two things are critical for us to really solve the
00:37:53.597 --> 00:37:56.834
Abortion problem.
00:37:56.834 --> 00:37:58.168
So can you explain that just so that we all understand how this
00:37:58.168 --> 00:38:02.272
Comes together?
00:38:02.272 --> 00:38:03.607
Roland: yeah, so if you think about this in this context,
00:38:03.607 --> 00:38:05.709
Right, the abortion issue is primarily a great commandment
00:38:05.709 --> 00:38:10.314
And a great commission issue.
00:38:10.314 --> 00:38:11.682
Kirk: what do you mean by that?
00:38:11.682 --> 00:38:13.016
Roland: so, okay, let's look at luke 10:27, where christ was
00:38:13.016 --> 00:38:15.753
Asked by a lawyer, right, "what must i do to inherit the kingdom
00:38:15.753 --> 00:38:18.956
Of god," right?
00:38:18.956 --> 00:38:20.324
It was love god with all your heart, your soul, your strength,
00:38:20.324 --> 00:38:22.159
And love your neighbor as yourself, right?
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:24.294
If you look at that verse, right, and you say, well, what
00:38:24.294 --> 00:38:26.663
Does neighbor mean?
00:38:26.663 --> 00:38:28.031
In the greek there, it means near one or your fellow, right?
00:38:28.031 --> 00:38:30.667
And the kind of love there, it's agape, so it's sacrificially
00:38:30.667 --> 00:38:33.871
Loving your neighbor.
00:38:33.871 --> 00:38:35.205
So you're supposed to sacrificially love your
00:38:35.205 --> 00:38:36.607
Neighbor, right?
00:38:36.607 --> 00:38:37.975
We talk about nearness in terms of proximity.
00:38:37.975 --> 00:38:41.111
I'm next to you, or we talk about nearness in terms
00:38:41.111 --> 00:38:43.414
Of relationship.
00:38:43.414 --> 00:38:44.782
I'm your next of kin.
00:38:44.782 --> 00:38:46.116
So in other words the neighbor is next to you and next of kin
00:38:46.116 --> 00:38:49.686
When it's in the womb.
00:38:49.686 --> 00:38:51.088
So the child in a woman's womb is her neighbor and what is she
00:38:51.088 --> 00:38:54.191
Called to do?
00:38:54.191 --> 00:38:55.526
Sacrificially love her neighbor.
00:38:55.526 --> 00:38:57.194
So, how do you reconcile abortion with the
00:38:57.194 --> 00:39:00.964
Great commandment.
00:39:00.964 --> 00:39:02.299
This is why as christians, we can't be pro-choice because it's
00:39:02.299 --> 00:39:05.169
A violation of the great commandment.
00:39:05.169 --> 00:39:07.838
Kirk: that's right.
00:39:07.838 --> 00:39:09.206
Roland: to love your neighbor sacrificially.
00:39:09.206 --> 00:39:10.541
So, it's her nearest near one and the guy who got her
00:39:10.541 --> 00:39:13.010
Pregnant, it's his nearest near one 'cause it's bone of his bone
00:39:13.010 --> 00:39:15.646
And flesh of his flesh, right?
00:39:15.646 --> 00:39:17.714
But when you have a child, as a christian, what are you called
00:39:17.714 --> 00:39:21.051
To do?
00:39:21.051 --> 00:39:22.386
You're supposed to help that child become what?
00:39:22.386 --> 00:39:23.754
A disciple of jesus christ, right?
00:39:23.754 --> 00:39:26.223
And to live out what?
00:39:26.223 --> 00:39:27.591
The great commission.
00:39:27.591 --> 00:39:29.226
Killing one of your children is not an act of discipleship.
00:39:29.226 --> 00:39:32.529
Supporting people killing people's children is not an act
00:39:32.529 --> 00:39:34.965
Of discipleship.
00:39:34.965 --> 00:39:36.400
So the life issue is connected to the great commandment and the
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:40.904
Great commission.
00:39:40.904 --> 00:39:42.272
Now, what we're talking about in terms of the pro-abundant life
00:39:42.272 --> 00:39:44.308
Perspective, there's these two pillars that hold it up and have
00:39:44.308 --> 00:39:46.477
A great graphic in the book that does, that shows you
00:39:46.477 --> 00:39:48.345
This, right?
00:39:48.345 --> 00:39:49.713
The first pillar is god's design for family, right?
00:39:49.713 --> 00:39:52.149
Fathers and mothers united in marriage, loving each other,
00:39:52.149 --> 00:39:54.218
Loving their child, and loving god, right?
00:39:54.218 --> 00:39:56.053
And what is the call of every family from a
00:39:56.053 --> 00:39:58.388
Christian perspective?
00:39:58.388 --> 00:39:59.723
It's to what?
00:39:59.723 --> 00:40:01.091
Live out the great commandment at a micro so they can be lived
00:40:01.091 --> 00:40:02.960
Out at a macro into the broader community, right?
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.996
And what is the role then of the church through discipleship?
00:40:05.996 --> 00:40:10.200
Is to fulfill the great commission.
00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:12.636
So you can see that when--so what satan did here with the
00:40:12.636 --> 00:40:16.039
Abortion issue, and this is why it's so central the church lead
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:19.743
Here, is that abortion, it stops the great commandment, which
00:40:19.743 --> 00:40:23.680
Then what thwarts the great commission.
00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:25.716
And this goes all the way back to the garden.
00:40:25.716 --> 00:40:27.985
When adam and eve were created in the garden, right?
00:40:27.985 --> 00:40:30.287
So you have adam, he was created and what was the challenge?
00:40:30.287 --> 00:40:33.323
God said, "this is good," but what was the problem?
00:40:33.323 --> 00:40:34.825
He didn't have a neighbor.
00:40:34.825 --> 00:40:36.293
Adam could not fulfill what?
00:40:36.293 --> 00:40:37.694
The great commandment because he didn't have a neighbor.
00:40:37.694 --> 00:40:40.030
So god, what does he do?
00:40:40.030 --> 00:40:41.365
He creates eve, from what?
00:40:41.365 --> 00:40:42.799
Adam's what? side.
00:40:42.799 --> 00:40:45.502
So when he says to adam, "love your neighbor as yourself," he
00:40:45.502 --> 00:40:48.505
Looks at his side and he looks at her.
00:40:48.505 --> 00:40:50.841
And when he says to eve, "love your neighbor as yourself," she
00:40:50.841 --> 00:40:52.976
Looks at herself and she looks at adam's side.
00:40:52.976 --> 00:40:55.212
So what you have in the garden before sin enters the picture is
00:40:55.212 --> 00:40:58.282
Actually the great commandment, loving god, loving neighbor,
00:40:58.282 --> 00:41:01.618
Right, and loving self.
00:41:01.618 --> 00:41:02.986
You have that construct.
00:41:02.986 --> 00:41:04.588
And what were they called to do?
00:41:04.588 --> 00:41:05.956
To be fruitful and multiply.
00:41:05.956 --> 00:41:07.791
In other words, to make disciples of their children and
00:41:07.791 --> 00:41:11.295
To what?
00:41:11.295 --> 00:41:12.663
Teach them to obey all that was taught, which was eat from that
00:41:12.663 --> 00:41:14.831
Tree, don't eat from that.
00:41:14.831 --> 00:41:16.433
Satan enters the picture.
00:41:16.433 --> 00:41:17.801
What does he do?
00:41:17.801 --> 00:41:19.136
He breaks the great commandments, right?
00:41:19.136 --> 00:41:20.804
They break the great commandment.
00:41:20.804 --> 00:41:23.340
And then what happens?
00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:24.675
It thwarts the great commission. cain kills abel.
00:41:24.675 --> 00:41:27.377
This issue is so central. this is what this is about.
00:41:27.377 --> 00:41:31.515
This is a great commandment, great commission issue that's
00:41:31.515 --> 00:41:35.118
Connected to god's design for family and god's call to
00:41:35.118 --> 00:41:38.789
Discipleship, which is how we live out the abundant life.
00:41:38.789 --> 00:41:42.926
This is why the church has to lead on this issue.
00:41:42.926 --> 00:41:46.830
It's central to what the church is called to do.
00:41:46.830 --> 00:41:49.366
Kirk: that's right. we can't waffle on the issue.
00:41:49.366 --> 00:41:51.468
We can't move to the middle for more votes on the issue.
00:41:51.468 --> 00:41:54.037
We've got to lead on the issue and this could be the family of
00:41:54.037 --> 00:41:56.406
Faith's finest hour culturally, politically, spiritually,
00:41:56.406 --> 00:42:00.143
Morally, when we get with the pro-abundant life program.
00:42:00.143 --> 00:42:04.648
Ron, let me ask you, do you have practical principles that every
00:42:04.648 --> 00:42:10.120
Individual person can do to help come up alongside a young man, a
00:42:10.120 --> 00:42:14.858
Young woman and help them while she's pregnant and after
00:42:14.858 --> 00:42:17.961
She's pregnant-- what are some things we can do?
00:42:17.961 --> 00:42:19.730
Roland: for the most part, when you see someone facing a
00:42:19.730 --> 00:42:22.032
Pregnancy decision, you have to think that they need to become a
00:42:22.032 --> 00:42:24.401
Disciple of jesus christ.
00:42:24.401 --> 00:42:26.003
Which means that your role with someone facing a pregnancy
00:42:26.003 --> 00:42:29.406
Decision is to support them physically, emotionally,
00:42:29.406 --> 00:42:32.376
Spiritually and socially, right, and come alongside them.
00:42:32.376 --> 00:42:35.779
So one of the ministries that we have at care net is called
00:42:35.779 --> 00:42:37.881
Making life disciples, and you can find that
00:42:37.881 --> 00:42:39.583
At makinglifedisciples.com.
00:42:39.583 --> 00:42:42.085
When you are a disciple maker, you're actually framing the
00:42:42.085 --> 00:42:44.888
Issue that way.
00:42:44.888 --> 00:42:46.223
So the goal here is to have small groups in the church that
00:42:46.223 --> 00:42:48.825
Are there so that someone who comes to a pregnancy center can
00:42:48.825 --> 00:42:51.795
Be trans--can be moved from the pregnancy center, if you will,
00:42:51.795 --> 00:42:55.465
To the church for ongoing support and discipleship.
00:42:55.465 --> 00:42:58.068
So you don't send her back to the community, which by the way
00:42:58.068 --> 00:43:00.637
Makes disciples and that's how she came to the pregnancy center
00:43:00.637 --> 00:43:03.373
In the first place because she--
00:43:03.373 --> 00:43:04.708
Kirk: making their own disciples.
00:43:04.708 --> 00:43:06.076
Roland: because, right, because we're not the only ones
00:43:06.076 --> 00:43:07.411
Making disciples.
00:43:07.411 --> 00:43:08.745
The culture makes disciples and they made one of her when she's
00:43:08.745 --> 00:43:11.114
Dealings fatherhood, motherhood, sex, and marriage and god's
00:43:11.114 --> 00:43:13.450
Designed for those things.
00:43:13.450 --> 00:43:14.818
So if we love her up and then send her back there, well, guess
00:43:14.818 --> 00:43:17.020
What's gonna happen?
00:43:17.020 --> 00:43:18.388
Kirk: she's gonna come right back.
00:43:18.388 --> 00:43:19.723
Roland: she's gonna come right back.
00:43:19.723 --> 00:43:21.091
So what's supposed to happen is she's supposed to move from the
00:43:21.091 --> 00:43:22.693
Pregnancy center to the church for ongoing support
00:43:22.693 --> 00:43:24.494
And discipleship.
00:43:24.494 --> 00:43:25.862
But that only is gonna happen if the church sees its role.
00:43:25.862 --> 00:43:29.332
Kirk: that's right.
00:43:29.332 --> 00:43:30.701
Roland: as making disciples of these folks.
00:43:30.701 --> 00:43:32.035
Kirk: not just funding the pregnancy center to love her and
00:43:32.035 --> 00:43:33.870
Send her back into that culture who then re-indoctrinates her
00:43:33.870 --> 00:43:36.740
Into the same kind of behavior that leads her to jump back in
00:43:36.740 --> 00:43:39.342
The waters and come, you know, floating downstream again.
00:43:39.342 --> 00:43:42.145
Roland: absolutely, see, jesus said,
00:43:42.145 --> 00:43:43.480
"come as you are but don't stay as you came.
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:44.848
Be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
00:43:44.848 --> 00:43:47.284
And pregnancy centers aren't designed to make disciples.
00:43:47.284 --> 00:43:50.654
They're designed to do evangelism, which leads to
00:43:50.654 --> 00:43:53.223
A convert.
00:43:53.223 --> 00:43:54.558
So they will offer the gospel.
00:43:54.558 --> 00:43:56.026
But discipleship, the church is the seed of discipleship.
00:43:56.026 --> 00:43:59.696
So what's been delinked for so many years is this connection
00:43:59.696 --> 00:44:03.133
Between the church.
00:44:03.133 --> 00:44:04.468
The church has to say, "these folks at the pregnancy center
00:44:04.468 --> 00:44:06.036
Need to become disciples of jesus christ."
00:44:06.036 --> 00:44:07.704
In other words, we need to make sure that we have a ministry to
00:44:07.704 --> 00:44:11.241
Receive them, and that's what making life disciples is.
00:44:11.241 --> 00:44:13.677
Kirk: so, if someone's watching us right now, they're going,
00:44:13.677 --> 00:44:15.946
This is a key thing that you're linking this together right now.
00:44:15.946 --> 00:44:19.449
Okay, i don't want, i don't just want my church to give part of
00:44:19.449 --> 00:44:22.586
Their tithe to the local pregnancy center.
00:44:22.586 --> 00:44:24.287
It's good.
00:44:24.287 --> 00:44:25.622
They need the funding, but we can do more.
00:44:25.622 --> 00:44:27.891
Why don't we, what?
00:44:27.891 --> 00:44:29.659
Specifically go to that center and say, "listen, we want to
00:44:29.659 --> 00:44:33.797
Receive the people who are coming to you.
00:44:33.797 --> 00:44:35.732
Bring them to us so that we can make them disciples."
00:44:35.732 --> 00:44:38.235
And we're ready for them.
00:44:38.235 --> 00:44:39.736
Roland: and this is the key.
00:44:39.736 --> 00:44:41.104
And here's the thing that's so crazy about this.
00:44:41.104 --> 00:44:42.439
In the church, we see water for the thirsty, food for the
00:44:42.439 --> 00:44:44.307
Hungry, clothes for the naked, homes for the homeless.
00:44:44.307 --> 00:44:46.309
We see all those things through the lens of discipleship.
00:44:46.309 --> 00:44:49.112
But compassion for the pregnant too often we see outside
00:44:49.112 --> 00:44:52.015
The church.
00:44:52.015 --> 00:44:53.350
So we have sanctity of life sunday.
00:44:53.350 --> 00:44:54.684
No, no, when you're a disciple maker, it's sanctity of life
00:44:54.684 --> 00:44:56.553
Every day.
00:44:56.553 --> 00:44:57.921
The call of the church is to make disciples.
00:44:57.921 --> 00:45:02.025
Mary faced a pregnancy decision.
00:45:02.025 --> 00:45:05.462
How did god use it, to what end?
00:45:05.462 --> 00:45:07.197
So that she would become a disciple of jesus christ.
00:45:07.197 --> 00:45:09.232
That you and i would become disciples of jesus christ.
00:45:09.232 --> 00:45:11.368
Our entire faith is built on an unplanned pregnancy from a human
00:45:11.368 --> 00:45:15.105
Perspective and god's response.
00:45:15.105 --> 00:45:16.706
So when you see a young lady facing a pregnancy decision,
00:45:16.706 --> 00:45:19.376
Your thoughts should be, could it be that god is using this
00:45:19.376 --> 00:45:22.679
Unplanned pregnancy so that she might become a disciple of jesus
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:25.715
Christ, which means i've got connect her to the church for
00:45:25.715 --> 00:45:28.251
Ongoing support and discipleship.
00:45:28.251 --> 00:45:30.020
And that's the design of making life disciples.
00:45:30.020 --> 00:45:32.722
Kirk: roland, talk about the importance of the mom who's
00:45:32.722 --> 00:45:35.225
Listening right now or the grandmother or the father or
00:45:35.225 --> 00:45:37.894
Grandfather who's listening right now.
00:45:37.894 --> 00:45:39.963
Talk about the importance of parents not outsourcing pro-life
00:45:39.963 --> 00:45:44.768
Conversations and discipleship to the church.
00:45:44.768 --> 00:45:48.004
How are we able to have this conversation within our families
00:45:48.004 --> 00:45:52.776
And be the primary teachers of our children of the abundant
00:45:52.776 --> 00:45:55.779
Life perspective?
00:45:55.779 --> 00:45:57.147
Roland: i think it all starts with the great commandment and
00:45:57.147 --> 00:45:58.615
The great commission.
00:45:58.615 --> 00:46:00.016
As you talk to your children, you say, listen, as christians,
00:46:00.016 --> 00:46:02.986
We're called to live out the great commandment to fulfill the
00:46:02.986 --> 00:46:05.522
Great commission.
00:46:05.522 --> 00:46:06.857
And then instead of letting the politics dictate what abortion
00:46:06.857 --> 00:46:09.860
Conversations you have in the house, you say, no, no, abortion
00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:12.796
Is actually a great commandment and a great commission.
00:46:12.796 --> 00:46:14.798
Kirk: yeah, this is god's issue.
00:46:14.798 --> 00:46:17.133
Roland: here's the thing, every woman that gives birth, right,
00:46:17.133 --> 00:46:20.937
When she gives birth, she's fulfilling the great commandment
00:46:20.937 --> 00:46:25.642
Because she's loving god's neighbor and she's excuse me,
00:46:25.642 --> 00:46:30.180
She's loving her neighbor, right, because she's
00:46:30.180 --> 00:46:32.582
Sacrificially giving birth to the child.
00:46:32.582 --> 00:46:34.351
She's loving god because she's not sacrificing one of god's
00:46:34.351 --> 00:46:37.420
Image bearers and she's loving herself because she's not
00:46:37.420 --> 00:46:39.990
Putting herself in conflict with an almighty god.
00:46:39.990 --> 00:46:42.592
So even if you're not a christian, the act of birth is
00:46:42.592 --> 00:46:45.262
Living out the great commandment.
00:46:45.262 --> 00:46:46.963
So when you talk to your children, say, listen, when we
00:46:46.963 --> 00:46:48.798
Gave birth to you, you know what that was?
00:46:48.798 --> 00:46:50.133
It was an act of living out the great commandment which is what
00:46:50.133 --> 00:46:51.868
We're called to do.
00:46:51.868 --> 00:46:53.236
This is why we don't support abortion.
00:46:53.236 --> 00:46:54.571
It's not because of this politics or that politics, it's
00:46:54.571 --> 00:46:56.706
Because we are called as christians to live out the
00:46:56.706 --> 00:46:58.975
Great commandment.
00:46:58.975 --> 00:47:00.343
So when you start framing everything that way,
00:47:00.343 --> 00:47:02.078
Then your children--
00:47:02.078 --> 00:47:03.613
Kirk: and it all makes sense. the confusion goes away.
00:47:03.613 --> 00:47:05.148
And it's clear. it's not difficult.
00:47:05.148 --> 00:47:06.917
Roland: when i talk to christians, the first thing when
00:47:06.917 --> 00:47:09.486
I'm talking to christians, particularly ones who have a
00:47:09.486 --> 00:47:12.155
Pro-choice perspective, i don't start with when life begins or
00:47:12.155 --> 00:47:13.790
Any of that.
00:47:13.790 --> 00:47:15.158
I say, "listen, you've got to reconcile your support for
00:47:15.158 --> 00:47:17.460
Abortion with the great commandment and the
00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:19.696
Great commission.
00:47:19.696 --> 00:47:21.298
Help me.
00:47:21.298 --> 00:47:22.632
How do you reconcile these? and if you can't, then you know.
00:47:22.632 --> 00:47:25.268
Kirk: something's wrong. roland: you can't do that.
00:47:25.268 --> 00:47:26.603
Roland: and that's basically what happened in the story of
00:47:26.603 --> 00:47:28.605
The good samaritan because you remember in that story in luke
00:47:28.605 --> 00:47:32.208
10:27, after he tells jesus what the law says, then he
00:47:32.208 --> 00:47:37.647
Says, what?
00:47:37.647 --> 00:47:38.982
"who's my neighbor?"
00:47:38.982 --> 00:47:40.350
That's what he says.
00:47:40.350 --> 00:47:41.685
'cause he realizes that jesus is, it's like expanded.
00:47:41.685 --> 00:47:43.954
He's expanded his neighborhood.
00:47:43.954 --> 00:47:45.889
This is where mr. rogers and big bird meet.
00:47:45.889 --> 00:47:47.924
Mr. rogers is like, won't you be my neighbor?
00:47:47.924 --> 00:47:49.693
And big bird and his crew run around and say, "who are the
00:47:49.693 --> 00:47:51.461
People in my neighborhood?"
00:47:51.461 --> 00:47:52.829
The baby in the womb, right, is saying, "won't you be
00:47:52.829 --> 00:47:55.165
My neighbor?"
00:47:55.165 --> 00:47:56.533
And the culture is saying, "well, who are the people in
00:47:56.533 --> 00:47:58.001
My neighborhood?"
00:47:58.001 --> 00:47:59.369
Well, jesus, let me clear that up for you, and he tells
00:47:59.369 --> 00:48:00.971
The story of what?
00:48:00.971 --> 00:48:02.305
The good samaritan.
00:48:02.305 --> 00:48:03.673
There's a vulnerable person who cannot advocate for themselves.
00:48:03.673 --> 00:48:06.643
And the church folk, right, priests, they go to the other
00:48:06.643 --> 00:48:09.913
Side of the road, which is basically an abortion cause an
00:48:09.913 --> 00:48:11.948
Abortion is rejection of vulnerable life.
00:48:11.948 --> 00:48:14.184
The samaritan goes near to the near one, right?
00:48:14.184 --> 00:48:16.619
That's what he does, right?
00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:18.355
And then after jesus tells that story, he says to the lawyer,
00:48:18.355 --> 00:48:20.857
"so who was a neighbor to the man who fell?"
00:48:20.857 --> 00:48:22.993
And the lawyer says, "the one who showed him mercy."
00:48:22.993 --> 00:48:24.828
Well, when you look at the word mercy in the hebrew, it has the
00:48:24.828 --> 00:48:28.064
Same root as the word for compassion and the word
00:48:28.064 --> 00:48:31.234
For womb.
00:48:31.234 --> 00:48:33.303
What he's saying to jesus is the man, the one who put the man,
00:48:33.303 --> 00:48:37.707
The broken man, the wounded man in the womb and protected him.
00:48:37.707 --> 00:48:40.877
See, the womb is a place of mercy.
00:48:40.877 --> 00:48:43.079
The heartbeat of a baby is saying, "have mercy, have mercy,
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:47.150
Have mercy."
00:48:47.150 --> 00:48:48.485
And mothers, what do they do?
00:48:48.485 --> 00:48:49.853
They say, "i will agape you."
00:48:49.853 --> 00:48:51.187
Do you see?
00:48:51.187 --> 00:48:52.555
So this is so connected to the centrality--
00:48:52.555 --> 00:48:54.791
Of what we are called to do as christians, which is why
00:48:54.791 --> 00:48:57.660
We must lead.
00:48:57.660 --> 00:48:59.062
The church has to lead, right, this issue which means pastors
00:48:59.062 --> 00:49:03.033
Have to lead and as christians, we have to view this through the
00:49:03.033 --> 00:49:05.201
Lens of the great commandment, the great commission, living out
00:49:05.201 --> 00:49:07.437
The great commandment to fulfill the great commission through a
00:49:07.437 --> 00:49:09.773
Pro-abundant life perspective.
00:49:09.773 --> 00:49:11.441
When you anchor it that way, it doesn't matter who's in the
00:49:11.441 --> 00:49:13.943
White house because what you can do in your house will transform
00:49:13.943 --> 00:49:16.946
This culture.
00:49:16.946 --> 00:49:18.314
And that's what this is really all about.
00:49:18.314 --> 00:49:19.649
Kirk: ron, thank you so much. god bless you, brother.
00:49:19.649 --> 00:49:21.584
Roland: thank you, thank you. kirk: we'll be right back.
00:49:21.584 --> 00:49:24.087
♪♪♪
00:49:24.087 --> 00:49:30.007
♪♪♪
00:49:30.007 --> 00:49:31.161
♪♪♪
00:49:31.628 --> 00:49:36.533
Kirk: what important conversations we had today
00:49:38.268 --> 00:49:41.004
Around the topic of life.
00:49:41.004 --> 00:49:42.839
Let's review a few of our takeaways.
00:49:42.839 --> 00:49:45.775
Say, "congratulations."
00:49:45.775 --> 00:49:47.710
It was great to hear the layers of heather's personal story that
00:49:47.710 --> 00:49:51.981
Led her to a life's work in the cause for life.
00:49:51.981 --> 00:49:55.618
And she said that every woman with a pregnancy deserves
00:49:55.618 --> 00:49:58.888
A congratulations.
00:49:58.888 --> 00:50:01.091
Regardless of the circumstances, a congratulations honors the
00:50:01.091 --> 00:50:05.728
Life that's been created and helps the mother to see the
00:50:05.728 --> 00:50:10.366
Value of who she is.
00:50:10.366 --> 00:50:12.502
That's a game changer for her and her family.
00:50:12.502 --> 00:50:16.473
This is something easy that all of us can do if we find
00:50:16.473 --> 00:50:19.242
Ourselves in that situation.
00:50:19.242 --> 00:50:21.978
Say, "you don't have to do this alone."
00:50:21.978 --> 00:50:24.581
I loved this message of support that heather shares with both
00:50:24.581 --> 00:50:28.518
Moms and dads facing pregnancy decisions.
00:50:28.518 --> 00:50:31.988
Simply hearing, "you don't have to do this alone," from someone
00:50:31.988 --> 00:50:35.458
Who means it could literally be a life saving statement.
00:50:35.458 --> 00:50:40.597
Think, who in your community might need this kind of support
00:50:40.597 --> 00:50:45.401
From you?
00:50:45.401 --> 00:50:46.836
Take these principles from heather into those relationships
00:50:46.836 --> 00:50:50.140
And just watch how god shows up.
00:50:50.140 --> 00:50:53.376
See god's design.
00:50:53.376 --> 00:50:55.245
Didn't you love how roland warren connected the dots for us
00:50:55.245 --> 00:50:58.548
On how the life issue is connected to the great
00:50:58.548 --> 00:51:01.851
Commandment, which is to love god and love our neighbor, which
00:51:01.851 --> 00:51:05.421
Helps us to fulfill the great commission.
00:51:05.421 --> 00:51:08.791
God is inviting us to see holistically how he's designed
00:51:08.791 --> 00:51:12.896
His world to flourish.
00:51:12.896 --> 00:51:15.198
Part of the beauty of that design is how he's made the
00:51:15.198 --> 00:51:18.501
Family to operate, mother, father, and children all
00:51:18.501 --> 00:51:22.906
Together to contribute to the flourishing of society.
00:51:22.906 --> 00:51:27.443
The family is god's primary instrument for advancing his
00:51:27.443 --> 00:51:31.047
Kingdom on the earth.
00:51:31.047 --> 00:51:33.183
So let's start telling the whole story in our conversations about
00:51:33.183 --> 00:51:36.886
Life, the story of god's design.
00:51:36.886 --> 00:51:40.223
Be a disciple maker.
00:51:40.223 --> 00:51:42.225
I love this practical challenge from roland.
00:51:42.225 --> 00:51:45.328
For those of us who want to be pro-abundant life, disciple.
00:51:45.328 --> 00:51:50.233
What would it look like for you to take the first step to do
00:51:50.233 --> 00:51:53.903
This at your church or local women's center?
00:51:53.903 --> 00:51:57.774
Maybe it's a text or a phone call to your church or a friend
00:51:57.774 --> 00:52:00.910
To learn about ministry opportunities that already exist
00:52:00.910 --> 00:52:04.614
Or reaching out to your local pregnancy center to take a
00:52:04.614 --> 00:52:09.018
Training class and get connected.
00:52:09.018 --> 00:52:11.321
Roland reminded us that culture is discipling people in
00:52:11.321 --> 00:52:15.358
Its ways.
00:52:15.358 --> 00:52:16.726
So let's step up to the plate as the family of faith and help
00:52:16.726 --> 00:52:20.563
People see god's design for all things, including the family.
00:52:20.563 --> 00:52:26.803
Well, that's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:26.803 --> 00:52:28.838
Thanks for watching.
00:52:28.838 --> 00:52:30.173
And if you've enjoyed this show, don't forget to set your dvr so
00:52:30.173 --> 00:52:34.043
You never miss an episode.
00:52:34.043 --> 00:52:35.578
And of course, you can always catch up on past episodes.
00:52:35.578 --> 00:52:38.348
Just search for "takeaways" on tbn+ or visit the kirk cameron
00:52:38.348 --> 00:52:43.453
On tbn youtube channel.
00:52:43.453 --> 00:52:46.122
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:52:46.122 --> 00:52:49.859
♪♪♪
00:52:49.859 --> 00:52:55.031
♪♪♪
00:52:56.132 --> 00:53:05.008

Heather Lawless & Roland Warren: Choosing Life and Strengthening the Family | Takeaways With Kirk Cameron

May 12, 2025 | 53:5

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