Hosanna Wong & Alena Franklin: Ways to Hear God's Voice | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron.

April 20, 2026 | 53:29

Kirk Cameron is joined by Hosanna Wong and Alena Franklin discussing how God connects with us and the steps we can take to better connect with God for a more fulfilling relationship.

#Author #VoiceofGod #Culture #PersonalStory #SeekGod #KirkCameron #HosannaWong

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Hosanna Wong & Alena Franklin: Ways to Hear God's Voice | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron. | April 20, 2026

Kirk cameron: would you agree that the more time you spend
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With somebody, the better you get to know them?
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Makes sense, right?
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As you grow closer to someone, you find yourself being more
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Open, trusting them, feeling happy when they're around and
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Even missing them when they're not.
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This is the very definition of a strong, fulfilling relationship,
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And that's exactly what we can have with god.
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And what's even more exciting, that this is exactly what he
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Wants for us.
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My guests today, hosanna wong and alena franklin, will share
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Not only the keys to having a stronger connection with god,
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But how to embrace the ways that god made us unique in our
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Relationship to him.
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Hosanna wong: come to god as who you really are with your real
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Questions, with your real grief, with your real doubts, and
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Invite god into your real life.
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That is the best place to start.
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Alena franklin: god didn't stop pursuing me in the midst of my
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Wrestle with him.
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In fact, i think he was like, "bring it on.
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Bring your questions on because as you ask these questions,
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You're gonna get to know me deeper and in a better way."
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Kirk: it's all coming up next on "takeaways."
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♪♪♪
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Kirk: my first guest, hosanna wong, is an international
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Speaker, a bestselling author, and spoken word artist, helping
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Everyday people experience god for real.
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Hosanna currently travels and speaks all year round, and she
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Serves on teaching teams at churches throughout the country.
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Her brand new book is called "uncomplicate it: permission to
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Enjoy god in your unique way."
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Hosanna, i'm really intrigued and i'm so excited to have you
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On "takeaways."
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Hosanna: thank you for having me.
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I've been really looking forward to it.
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Kirk: well, you're from san francisco, right?
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Hosanna: yeah.
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Kirk: another californian right here, los angeles, but loving
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Tennessee as well.
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And i've had a chance to talk with people about their faith,
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You know, sitting in the airport or whatever, but you have
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Actually interviewed over 1000 people about their relationship
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With god.
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Hosanna: yeah, it's true.
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It was a big numb--my husband was a little frightened when i
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Told him, like, here's my goal.
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He's like, "man, does it have to be 1000?"
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Kirk: that's a lot of people, but what a--what a fascinating
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Experience that must have been.
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And through these interviews, you must have started to notice
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Some patterns with regard to what people say about their
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Relationship with god.
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What was probably the most surprising thing you learned
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After interviewing them?
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Hosanna: i think one of the most surprising things was i thought
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I was alone in feeling like too much stood in the way of me
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Connecting with god.
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Like sometimes i might have felt like i'm not in the right season
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To connect with god, or i don't have enough margin in my life to
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Connect with god.
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Or is something wrong with me?
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Is something wrong with my personality that i can't
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Experience god like that person does?
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Or is this season of my life too crazy and i need to wait till a
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Less busy season?
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Or like i thought that i was unique in that or alone in that,
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That there was just too many roadblocks between me and god.
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But when i asked 1000 people, i asked them two questions, one,
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What has stood in the way of you connecting with god?
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And two, what is a unique way you have found to connect
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With god?
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I discovered six of the same roadblocks all over the world,
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The six universal, like, most common roadblocks that people
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Said, and i realized i was not alone.
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So, the six most common roadblocks were, one, busyness.
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"i've got too much going on."
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Two, distractions, "i can't focus right now."
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Three, grief, like "i'm hurting too much right now."
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Four, shame, "i'm not worthy."
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Five, silence from god.
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Some people felt like they couldn't hear from god.
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And six, expectations.
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Sometimes that was expectations they felt from their parent, or
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Spouse, or kid, of what they thought their faith had to look
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Like, or else.
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But often i found it was expectations people put on
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Themselves of what they thought their routines had to look like
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Or their life had to look like to have a real relationship
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With god.
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And i realized, man, so many of the expectations we carry do not
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Come from god.
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So many of us feel these roadblocks between us and god,
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But what is the way through them?
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What is the way to have a real connection with god in the
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Season that we're really in, so that was the question i set out
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To ask.
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Kirk: what great questions that you ask them.
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What's standing in the way of you having a real connection
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With god?
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You know what i like about that question is that you're not,
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You're not putting them on the spot with some deep
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Theological question.
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You're not getting into some political confrontation
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With them.
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You're asking them to just be honest about their experience
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And then to share with you something that they've found
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That has been helpful.
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And i'm sure there've been--had--did you ever have
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Major pushback from people?
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Hosanna: no.
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Kirk: or were they sort of like, "thank you for asking
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My opinion?"
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Hosanna: right, no one once said, "what do you mean standing
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In the way of me and god?
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This has been easy for me my whole life.
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I've never had a hard season ever."
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Kirk: says no one ever.
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Hosanna: says no one ever.
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No one asked me to explain the question.
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Everyone was like, "oh, i'll tell you."
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Even people that have followed god for a long time would say,
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"you know what, sometimes busyness," "you know what,
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Sometimes in seasons of grief."
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And then even people who were not sure about god were able to
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Vocalize, "you know what, this is what i feel.
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And you know what?
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Here is a way that i've been able to."
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So, it's beautiful.
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Kirk: what are some of the ways that people have found to break
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Through, to connect with god?
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Hosanna: well, i found that people are realizing that they
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Were uniquely and wonderfully made.
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That their different learning style that they thought was a
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Roadblock between them and god, their personality that they felt
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Was different from everyone else in their family--like if we
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Believe that we have to encounter god the way everyone
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Else does.
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And then when we feel like we aren't experiencing god the way
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Our mom does or our pastor does or that one person on instagram
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Does, then we feel like we're falling short.
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People are realizing the way they've been uniquely and
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Wonderfully wired.
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God created you wonderfully and uniquely to have a relationship
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With him.
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He didn't set you up for failure, he set you up
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For success.
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That was--i think that was the aha moment that happened
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The most.
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So many people said, "i don't know if this counts that i
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Encounter god this way," and realizing like, it counts.
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Like, god just wants to have a real relationship with you.
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Kirk: you know, one of the ways that i connect with god that
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Some people would think is not very spiritual is that i just
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Like to be outside in nature.
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I just wanna go sit in my backyard and listen to the
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Birds, or watch a sunset, or a sunrise, or go take a walk when
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I am in california on the beach.
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I think that's a wonderful way to connect with god, be in the
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Middle of his creation.
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Hosanna: right.
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One of the things i discovered was different ways that we're
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Naturally wired.
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We were talking about this earlier about different
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Worship personalities.
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I discovered that there were seven different worship
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Personalities that people had all throughout the world, and
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Then i found them throughout scripture, throughout the old
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Testament and new testament in ways that jesus demonstrated
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These worship personalities.
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I started calling them your praise-onality, like
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Your praise-onality.
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Not like a personality test, like you're this one thing and
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It puts you in a box and you have to stay in this one way.
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But it's not meant to put you in a box, it's meant to set you
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Free and just realizing, like, that would be one of them
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Experiencing god in nature and realizing that, here's the
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Truth, your relationship with god doesn't have to look like
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Anyone else's relationship with god, and it doesn't have to look
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Like it did years ago.
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God wants to have a real relationship with the real you
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In the current season you're in.
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That will look different for everybody.
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Kirk: i totally agree with that.
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I'm so--i'm so glad that you wrote this book and there are
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People with--who are introverts, people who are extroverts,
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People who love being around others and singing together
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Congregationally, and there's others who are moved deeply by
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Music and others who are not.
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They want to participate in works of service and
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Hospitality, and that just may not be other people's thing,
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They're not wired for that.
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One of the things i also love about your book, i love the
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Design on the front here, and you use this metaphor of a
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Vineyard throughout the book.
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Can you explain that imagery and how it can help us to
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Uncomplicate our relationship with god?
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Hosanna: right, well, there's a passage in john 15 where jesus
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Paints this word picture of how he is the vine, he's the source
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Of life, and we are the branches, and we need to be
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Connected to him to receive all that god has for us.
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But i didn't fully understand that passage because i did not
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Grow up on a farm.
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I don't know anything about agriculture.
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I grew up on the streets of san francisco and an outdoor church
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To our friends living without homes and battling
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With addiction.
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So, i know a lot about thrift shopping and hip hop
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And mahjong.
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Like that's kind of my expertise, i know nothing
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About agriculture.
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So, i've also been on a journey of interviewing vineyard growers
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And winemakers throughout the world to understand what's--what
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Do i need to know about branches being connected to a vine?
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Like, how can a branch be connected to a vine and stay
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Connected to a vine through storms?
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I'm trying to figure out how do i have a real relationship
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With jesus.
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And this one vineyard grower, niccolo in the hills of tuscany.
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Kirk: man, he just sounds like he knows how to grow grapes.
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Hosanna: of course his name was niccolo.
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Like, you wouldn't ask anybody, you wanna ask nicolo
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From tuscany.
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And i remember asking him: what do i need to know to grow the
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Perfect flourishing vineyard?
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I'm thinking that i'm writing a book about how to have
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Perfect faith.
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And i said, what are the ten perfect steps you would give
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To me?
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And he said to me, "i don't have ten perfect steps for you."
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He said, "first, i have a question for you."
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He said, "what is your soil?
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Where are you starting from?"
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He said, "the soil from my vineyard is totally different
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From his vineyard, from her vineyard, from the vineyard down
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The street," and he said, "it's important you know what you're
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Made of, where you're starting from.
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There are not ten perfect steps for every vineyard grower."
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And he even said, he said, "you know, i studied other
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Vineyard growers.
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I studied people who have grown before me, which we want to
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Do that."
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He said, "but then i had to know i can't just rigidly obsess and
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Copy and paste exactly how they grew their vineyard on soil i
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Did not have."
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He said, "you have to know where you're starting from."
00:10:11.534 --> 00:10:13.302
And i thought, man, that really helped me reframe this verse and
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Apply it to my life.
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What is your background?
00:10:18.074 --> 00:10:19.575
What is your soil? what are you made of?
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Where are you from? what have you overcome?
00:10:21.143 --> 00:10:22.645
What's your lens of god?
00:10:22.645 --> 00:10:23.979
What's your lens of the church?
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What do you need from god?
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And there are people who cannot imagine being from the soil that
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You are from.
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And there are people that are from soil that maybe you've
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Never heard of before.
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It will not help your faith to just copy and paste how someone
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Else has a relationship with god.
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It might not help your faith, it might hurt your faith.
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Instead, where are you from?
00:10:43.432 --> 00:10:45.534
Come to god as who you really are with your real questions,
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With your real grief, with your real doubts, and invite god into
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Your real life, that is the best place to start.
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That is the way to have a real relationship with god and then
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Everything after that depends.
00:10:59.381 --> 00:11:01.450
And he really took me on a journey of what is your soil?
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Hey, what is your season?
00:11:04.620 --> 00:11:06.622
Like, you don't want to nurture your vineyard as if it's in a
00:11:06.622 --> 00:11:09.325
Season it used to be in, you have to really nurture it based
00:11:09.325 --> 00:11:12.995
On what the weather really is today.
00:11:12.995 --> 00:11:16.365
And i found that in my 1000 conversations too.
00:11:16.365 --> 00:11:18.834
There were plenty of people who compared their relationship with
00:11:18.834 --> 00:11:22.671
God to someone else's relationship with god, but just
00:11:22.671 --> 00:11:25.674
As often, people compared their relationship with god to what
00:11:25.674 --> 00:11:28.944
Theirs was years ago.
00:11:28.944 --> 00:11:31.380
In a previous season, "oh man, when the kids were this age,
00:11:31.380 --> 00:11:34.984
When i lived in this town," and then they think, "man, my season
00:11:34.984 --> 00:11:38.420
Is just not the right season to encounter god."
00:11:38.420 --> 00:11:41.056
But the best way to have a real relationship with god is in the
00:11:41.056 --> 00:11:43.926
Season you're in with the family he's entrusted you with, with
00:11:43.926 --> 00:11:47.096
The responsibilities he's given you.
00:11:47.096 --> 00:11:49.231
The best way to have a real relationship with god is to have
00:11:49.231 --> 00:11:51.333
One in the middle of your real life.
00:11:51.333 --> 00:11:53.536
Kirk: props to niccolo.
00:11:53.536 --> 00:11:54.870
Hosanna: niccolo.
00:11:54.870 --> 00:11:56.238
Kirk: i mean, niccolo--
00:11:56.238 --> 00:11:57.573
Hosanna: i said, "you should consider being a pastor."
00:11:57.573 --> 00:11:59.241
Kirk: i'm--seriously, i mean--
00:11:59.241 --> 00:12:00.843
Hosanna: he had no idea.
00:12:00.843 --> 00:12:02.178
Kirk: he's just dropping truth for us.
00:12:02.178 --> 00:12:03.546
Hosanna: the context, yeah.
00:12:03.546 --> 00:12:04.880
Kirk: and props to you for putting this into a book that
00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:08.450
We can read and we can apply to our own life.
00:12:08.450 --> 00:12:11.720
You also talk about how some people feel trapped by the guilt
00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.691
And shame of not meeting certain spiritual expectations.
00:12:15.691 --> 00:12:19.328
In fact, i know somebody in my family who says, "you know, i
00:12:19.328 --> 00:12:22.898
Believe, but i don't wanna come out and say that i'm a christian
00:12:22.898 --> 00:12:25.734
Because i've got so many things i don't have right yet.
00:12:25.734 --> 00:12:28.771
I don't want to sort of put that out there in the--in the
00:12:28.771 --> 00:12:31.640
Universe because you could just look at me and go, 'dude, you're
00:12:31.640 --> 00:12:35.444
Not practicing what you preach.'"
00:12:35.444 --> 00:12:37.146
What's the trap of spiritual perfectionism?
00:12:37.146 --> 00:12:40.683
Hosanna: right, so many of us feel like we have to have a
00:12:40.683 --> 00:12:43.686
Certain kind of knowledge of god like you mentioned, know what
00:12:43.686 --> 00:12:47.289
The bible says about every single thing, know what all
00:12:47.289 --> 00:12:49.625
These words mean, have perfect routines before we can
00:12:49.625 --> 00:12:51.527
Encounter god.
00:12:51.527 --> 00:12:52.895
I'll tell you what really taught me this was my relationship with
00:12:52.895 --> 00:12:55.831
My husband, guy.
00:12:55.831 --> 00:12:57.266
I have a lot of gaps when it comes to pop culture, so our
00:12:57.266 --> 00:13:01.971
Team, our friends and our family, we love game nights, uno
00:13:01.971 --> 00:13:05.040
Nights, mahjong nights, trivia nights.
00:13:05.040 --> 00:13:07.276
But whenever it's trivia nights, i'll be picked last because i
00:13:07.276 --> 00:13:10.446
Have all these gaps with pop culture 'cause i didn't have a
00:13:10.446 --> 00:13:12.681
Tv growing up.
00:13:12.681 --> 00:13:14.049
So, for the first 17 years of my life, i don't know the movies, i
00:13:14.049 --> 00:13:16.886
Don't know the shows, i have all these gaps.
00:13:16.886 --> 00:13:19.288
So, my friends never wanna pick me for trivia night, and i used
00:13:19.288 --> 00:13:21.757
To always feel embarrassed about my gaps thinking that they stood
00:13:21.757 --> 00:13:25.895
In the way of me having genuine relationships, genuine
00:13:25.895 --> 00:13:29.732
Friendships and relationships.
00:13:29.732 --> 00:13:31.066
In high school, when boys would ask me what my favorite movie
00:13:31.066 --> 00:13:33.869
Was, i would always say, i don't know, i've only seen two, so i
00:13:33.869 --> 00:13:36.839
Always felt like it was a roadblock.
00:13:36.839 --> 00:13:38.207
But then i met my now husband, guy, and he loved movies, and
00:13:38.207 --> 00:13:42.177
When he found out about my gaps, he thought it was so cool that
00:13:42.177 --> 00:13:45.180
He was gonna get to show me all these movies through his lens.
00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:48.851
I'll never forget when he showed me the movie "titanic."
00:13:48.851 --> 00:13:51.520
I was, like, crying watching it.
00:13:51.520 --> 00:13:53.055
This was two years ago, kirk.
00:13:53.055 --> 00:13:54.623
Two years ago, i'm watching this movie "titanic," i'm crying and
00:13:54.623 --> 00:13:56.792
I said, "that was so beautiful, everyone needs to see it."
00:13:56.792 --> 00:14:00.095
And he just hugs me and says, "my love, everyone else has
00:14:00.095 --> 00:14:02.531
Seen it."
00:14:02.531 --> 00:14:03.866
My point is, what i saw as a gap, my husband saw as
00:14:03.866 --> 00:14:06.802
An opportunity.
00:14:06.802 --> 00:14:08.437
What i saw as a roadblock, he saw as a shortcut, a catalyst to
00:14:08.437 --> 00:14:11.807
Deeper connection, and that's true with our relationship
00:14:11.807 --> 00:14:14.076
With god.
00:14:14.076 --> 00:14:15.444
We might feel like we have spiritual gaps.
00:14:15.444 --> 00:14:17.413
We don't know what these words mean, we don't know what these
00:14:17.413 --> 00:14:20.015
Songs mean, we don't know what the word of god says about every
00:14:20.015 --> 00:14:22.518
Single thing, and we feel like there's something wrong with us.
00:14:22.518 --> 00:14:25.487
We see all these roadblocks to god, but the truth is what we
00:14:25.487 --> 00:14:28.157
See as gaps, god sees as an opportunity.
00:14:28.157 --> 00:14:30.225
What we see as roadblocks, he sees as a shortcut.
00:14:30.225 --> 00:14:32.361
He would love to be the one to meet you where you really are
00:14:32.361 --> 00:14:34.830
And show you what it looks like to have a real relationship with
00:14:34.830 --> 00:14:37.232
Him through his lens.
00:14:37.232 --> 00:14:39.435
Release the expectations that don't come from god.
00:14:39.435 --> 00:14:42.604
He wants to have a relationship with you right where you are.
00:14:42.604 --> 00:14:45.674
Kirk: hosanna, i'm loving this and i wanna get into so much
00:14:45.674 --> 00:14:48.243
More in your book right after the break.
00:14:48.243 --> 00:14:49.979
When we come back, we're gonna talk more with hosanna about the
00:14:49.979 --> 00:14:52.815
Unique ways that you and i are wired to enjoy god's presence.
00:14:52.815 --> 00:14:56.585
And then later in the program, author and actress alena
00:14:56.585 --> 00:14:59.088
Franklin is gonna help us to explore the many characteristics
00:14:59.088 --> 00:15:02.691
Of god.
00:15:02.691 --> 00:15:04.059
So, don't miss it.
00:15:04.059 --> 00:15:05.394
Alena: where i found the most comfort is in bringing all of
00:15:05.394 --> 00:15:08.364
Those honest feelings to god.
00:15:08.364 --> 00:15:10.332
Like i just think we don't emphasize enough that god
00:15:10.332 --> 00:15:13.335
Desires our honesty.
00:15:13.335 --> 00:15:14.703
♪♪♪
00:15:14.703 --> 00:15:19.742
♪♪♪
00:15:20.412 --> 00:15:25.450
Kirk: we're back with popular speaker and author, hosanna
00:15:27.819 --> 00:15:30.355
Wong, discussing the keys to a deeper, more fulfilling
00:15:30.355 --> 00:15:33.759
Relationship with god.
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:35.360
Hosanna, you mentioned just a minute ago about some different
00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:38.430
Praise and worship personalities, and what did you
00:15:38.430 --> 00:15:41.166
Call them?
00:15:41.166 --> 00:15:42.501
Hosanna: praise-onalities.
00:15:42.501 --> 00:15:43.869
Kirk: praise-onalities, and you said that there are seven, maybe
00:15:43.869 --> 00:15:45.537
There's more, but at least seven in your book.
00:15:45.537 --> 00:15:48.140
What are they?
00:15:48.140 --> 00:15:49.508
And then explain--unpack them for us.
00:15:49.508 --> 00:15:51.109
Hosanna: yes, so in the book i go deeper in how we find this
00:15:51.109 --> 00:15:53.678
All in scripture, in the old testament, new testament, and
00:15:53.678 --> 00:15:56.515
Through jesus.
00:15:56.515 --> 00:15:57.849
And i wonder if you can relate to any of these worship styles.
00:15:57.849 --> 00:16:00.886
Here's the seven, one, recreationalist.
00:16:00.886 --> 00:16:04.256
This might be you--this might be you.
00:16:04.256 --> 00:16:06.391
This might be you if you engage with god best through nature,
00:16:06.391 --> 00:16:09.294
Through the outdoors, or through movement, maybe on a hike, at
00:16:09.294 --> 00:16:12.664
The ocean, or at the gym.
00:16:12.664 --> 00:16:15.033
Two is the beholder of beauty.
00:16:15.033 --> 00:16:16.835
This might be you if you encounter god best through
00:16:16.835 --> 00:16:19.137
Beautiful things, maybe a photo or a flower.
00:16:19.137 --> 00:16:22.374
Created things literally make you feel closer to your creator.
00:16:22.374 --> 00:16:25.811
Three, soul fire.
00:16:25.811 --> 00:16:28.113
You encounter god best through outward expressive worship,
00:16:28.113 --> 00:16:33.084
Maybe raising your hands or having a dance party to worship
00:16:33.084 --> 00:16:36.154
Music in your kitchen.
00:16:36.154 --> 00:16:37.823
Not everyone is a soul fire.
00:16:37.823 --> 00:16:39.257
You might see someone at church that's outwardly expressing
00:16:39.257 --> 00:16:42.027
Their faith, and you might think, "oh, that looks like a
00:16:42.027 --> 00:16:43.829
Bit much, or that looks a bit performative."
00:16:43.829 --> 00:16:46.298
And if you're not a soul fire, it might be fake for you, but
00:16:46.298 --> 00:16:49.768
For a soul fire, holding it in might be the most fake thing
00:16:49.768 --> 00:16:53.004
They can do.
00:16:53.004 --> 00:16:54.339
Soul fires, we need to make sure that we're always honoring the
00:16:54.339 --> 00:16:57.275
Place we're in, we're never distracting, but also you must
00:16:57.275 --> 00:17:00.045
Find time to blast worship music in your car or have a dance
00:17:00.045 --> 00:17:02.948
Party in your kitchen to the glory of god, outwardly
00:17:02.948 --> 00:17:05.417
Expressive versions of worship.
00:17:05.417 --> 00:17:07.452
The fourth is the sacred space seeker.
00:17:07.452 --> 00:17:10.555
This means that you engage with god best through traditions,
00:17:10.555 --> 00:17:13.925
Maybe through rituals, through practicing the sacred practices,
00:17:13.925 --> 00:17:17.128
Perhaps through communion, through lent, through structure.
00:17:17.128 --> 00:17:20.131
We wanna make sure we never worship--worship styles or
00:17:20.131 --> 00:17:23.301
Worship traditions more than we worship god.
00:17:23.301 --> 00:17:25.770
But if you do encounter god through structure without
00:17:25.770 --> 00:17:28.473
Bringing in legalism or shame, you might be a sacred
00:17:28.473 --> 00:17:31.576
Space seeker.
00:17:31.576 --> 00:17:32.944
That's a good thing about--
00:17:32.944 --> 00:17:34.279
Kirk: yeah, that's cool. i'm loving this.
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:35.647
Hosanna: the fifth one is the interior expert.
00:17:35.647 --> 00:17:37.349
This means that you're naturally introspective.
00:17:37.349 --> 00:17:39.818
Maybe you're very comfortable with silence and solitude.
00:17:39.818 --> 00:17:42.787
Interior experts tend to have a natural bent towards nostalgia.
00:17:42.787 --> 00:17:47.492
Playing certain music brings them back to places where god
00:17:47.492 --> 00:17:50.362
Was really faithful.
00:17:50.362 --> 00:17:51.696
Maybe they have a bent towards journaling, the interior expert.
00:17:51.696 --> 00:17:54.833
The sixth is the thoughtsmith.
00:17:54.833 --> 00:17:57.168
This doesn't mean you're the smartest person in the room, or
00:17:57.168 --> 00:17:58.970
You need to be, or you need to be the most educated person in
00:17:58.970 --> 00:18:01.006
The room, but the thoughtsmith engages with god best through
00:18:01.006 --> 00:18:04.276
Engaging with their mind.
00:18:04.276 --> 00:18:06.144
Perhaps they're reading the bible, a passage that they've
00:18:06.144 --> 00:18:08.413
Read before, but then they see something in it they've never
00:18:08.413 --> 00:18:10.815
Seen before, like a light bulb goes off in their mind, fires
00:18:10.815 --> 00:18:13.952
Ignited in their bones, like geeking out is like a spiritual
00:18:13.952 --> 00:18:16.955
Practice to you, you're the thoughtsmith.
00:18:16.955 --> 00:18:19.057
And then the final one is the artist of people.
00:18:19.057 --> 00:18:22.560
This means that you encounter god best through conversations.
00:18:22.560 --> 00:18:25.697
Maybe photos are not your canvas and portraits are not your
00:18:25.697 --> 00:18:28.733
Canvas, but people are your canvas, and you might have a
00:18:28.733 --> 00:18:32.103
Bent towards hospitality, you're the one hosting the dinner
00:18:32.103 --> 00:18:34.773
Parties or the game nights, or you might have a bent
00:18:34.773 --> 00:18:37.175
Towards service.
00:18:37.175 --> 00:18:38.543
I found a lot of people that serve at soup kitchens or
00:18:38.543 --> 00:18:40.612
Set up, teardown at their church really relate to the
00:18:40.612 --> 00:18:42.914
Artists of people.
00:18:42.914 --> 00:18:44.249
It's important we know we never wanna worship the way we worship
00:18:44.249 --> 00:18:46.985
More than worship god, right?
00:18:46.985 --> 00:18:48.320
We never wanna say, "well, i'm a thought smith, so i'm never
00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:50.522
Gonna volunteer anywhere."
00:18:50.522 --> 00:18:51.890
And we don't wanna worship a certain kind of building or
00:18:51.890 --> 00:18:53.959
Worship style, we want our faith to be so real that we can
00:18:53.959 --> 00:18:57.696
Worship god in all of these ways, in different seasons, in
00:18:57.696 --> 00:19:00.765
Different environments.
00:19:00.765 --> 00:19:02.100
I hope our faith is so real that we can encounter god in a
00:19:02.100 --> 00:19:04.469
Catholic church, in a charismatic church, at a soup
00:19:04.469 --> 00:19:07.372
Kitchen, on our couch, on a hike in all these ways to the glory
00:19:07.372 --> 00:19:10.475
Of god, and we don't overcomplicate it.
00:19:10.475 --> 00:19:12.677
But also, when you feel stuck in your faith, consider the unique
00:19:12.677 --> 00:19:17.415
Way you're wonderfully wired, and encounter and enjoy god in
00:19:17.415 --> 00:19:20.352
Your unique way.
00:19:20.352 --> 00:19:21.920
So, out of these seven, do any stick out to you?
00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:25.190
I'm gonna make an internal guess.
00:19:25.190 --> 00:19:27.225
Wait, cover your eyes.
00:19:27.225 --> 00:19:28.560
Kirk: okay.
00:19:28.560 --> 00:19:29.894
...
00:19:29.894 --> 00:19:31.997
Kirk: are you signaling to something?
00:19:31.997 --> 00:19:33.331
Hosanna: i did.
00:19:33.331 --> 00:19:34.699
I signaled to the camera the two i think you are.
00:19:34.699 --> 00:19:36.167
Kirk: okay.
00:19:36.167 --> 00:19:37.502
The outdoor guy for sure, love being in nature.
00:19:37.502 --> 00:19:39.704
What is that?
00:19:39.704 --> 00:19:41.072
Hosanna: the recreationalist.
00:19:41.072 --> 00:19:42.440
Number one.
00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:43.775
Kirk: love it.
00:19:43.775 --> 00:19:45.143
And then the--i geek out when i read a passage of scripture and
00:19:45.143 --> 00:19:48.113
I say, oh my goodness, jesus is not saying what i thought
00:19:48.113 --> 00:19:51.950
He said.
00:19:51.950 --> 00:19:53.318
He's quoting isaiah, of course he's quoting isaiah.
00:19:53.318 --> 00:19:57.088
And that just changes the whole thing.
00:19:57.088 --> 00:19:59.391
And i'll just have a dance party because of a connection in
00:19:59.391 --> 00:20:03.762
The bible.
00:20:03.762 --> 00:20:05.130
Hosanna: okay, i love that. okay, i was half right.
00:20:05.130 --> 00:20:06.464
I guessed one, recreationalist, but because you said earlier
00:20:06.464 --> 00:20:09.334
That you love the outdoors, so i knew that about you.
00:20:09.334 --> 00:20:11.403
And i guess that you were seven, artists of people, just because
00:20:11.403 --> 00:20:14.973
You do--you are great at having conversations with people and
00:20:14.973 --> 00:20:19.811
Hearing stories from other people.
00:20:19.811 --> 00:20:21.179
Kirk: i do like to do this, so.
00:20:21.179 --> 00:20:22.514
Hosanna: yeah, but thoughtsmith, i love that.
00:20:22.514 --> 00:20:24.816
Kirk: this is really fascinating.
00:20:24.816 --> 00:20:26.284
You know, it does remind me a little bit of the five love
00:20:26.284 --> 00:20:28.820
Languages, and these worship styles i think are important
00:20:28.820 --> 00:20:32.057
Because, you're right, some people have the expectation
00:20:32.057 --> 00:20:34.392
That, "well, if i'm gonna be a good christian, i need to go
00:20:34.392 --> 00:20:36.928
To church.
00:20:36.928 --> 00:20:38.263
I need to participate in the sacraments."
00:20:38.263 --> 00:20:41.332
And as important as those are, as essential as they are,
00:20:41.332 --> 00:20:45.804
Particularly to people who were wired that way, that's not
00:20:45.804 --> 00:20:51.142
What's act--it's not a replacement for connecting with
00:20:51.142 --> 00:20:53.978
God in a way that might be more consistent with how he has
00:20:53.978 --> 00:20:58.149
Hardwired you.
00:20:58.149 --> 00:21:01.352
Hosanna: right, they're not the point, they're the means to the
00:21:01.352 --> 00:21:03.655
End, and they should point us to jesus.
00:21:03.655 --> 00:21:06.791
Kirk: and that's what religion often does, right?
00:21:06.791 --> 00:21:08.760
Is they take these means of grace and these structures that
00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:11.696
Can point us and then they become the thing.
00:21:11.696 --> 00:21:14.332
And then we start to worship this awesome system we've
00:21:14.332 --> 00:21:17.135
Created rather than the sovereign that the system should
00:21:17.135 --> 00:21:21.539
Point to.
00:21:21.539 --> 00:21:22.874
Hosanna: the only way to god is through jesus christ.
00:21:22.874 --> 00:21:24.242
All you have to do is put your faith in jesus and then you
00:21:24.242 --> 00:21:26.778
Start to have a real relationship with god right
00:21:26.778 --> 00:21:28.413
Where you are, and i'm sorry for the ways we've
00:21:28.413 --> 00:21:30.281
Overcomplicated it.
00:21:30.281 --> 00:21:31.649
It's--it can be simpler, more personal than you've
00:21:31.649 --> 00:21:33.384
Ever imagined.
00:21:33.384 --> 00:21:35.253
Kirk: i wanna ask a provocative question, and you quote watchman
00:21:35.253 --> 00:21:41.126
Nee in the book, and he said, "the life of many christians
00:21:41.126 --> 00:21:48.299
Today is largely a pretense.
00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:51.436
It is the effort involved that should reveal to them that
00:21:51.436 --> 00:21:55.640
Something is wrong."
00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:57.842
Jesus said that we ought to love god with all our heart, all our
00:21:57.842 --> 00:22:03.381
Mind, all our soul, all our strength, and love our neighbor
00:22:03.381 --> 00:22:06.584
As ourselves, and scripture tells us that that whatever we
00:22:06.584 --> 00:22:10.688
Do, we ought to do it with all of our might.
00:22:10.688 --> 00:22:12.991
So, who do you think is telling the truth?
00:22:12.991 --> 00:22:16.528
Watchman nee or jesus?
00:22:16.528 --> 00:22:18.463
Hosanna: well, i think, i think watchman nee is unpacking what
00:22:18.463 --> 00:22:23.568
Jesus has said, and i think he's unpacking what jesus has said,
00:22:23.568 --> 00:22:28.706
For us today to know, yes, we need to obey god with all of our
00:22:28.706 --> 00:22:34.112
Heart and all of our mind and all of our soul, but we cannot
00:22:34.112 --> 00:22:36.881
Save ourselves.
00:22:36.881 --> 00:22:38.449
Like, salvation only comes through putting faith in jesus
00:22:38.449 --> 00:22:41.753
And receiving god's grace, so we wanna obey god to the best of
00:22:41.753 --> 00:22:46.191
Our ability and we wanna surrender our sins and our lives
00:22:46.191 --> 00:22:48.726
To god.
00:22:48.726 --> 00:22:50.061
But us thinking that we can perform to a certain level or
00:22:50.061 --> 00:22:53.865
Get an a-plus at the spiritual disciplines or be strong enough
00:22:53.865 --> 00:22:57.669
Or holy enough in order to earn salvation is not what jesus
00:22:57.669 --> 00:23:02.140
Said, and i think watchman nee is trying to help us correct
00:23:02.140 --> 00:23:05.510
What sometimes we as christ followers have done, which we've
00:23:05.510 --> 00:23:08.813
Made it all about what we can do and what we can achieve.
00:23:08.813 --> 00:23:11.416
And we have to remember that we are branches connected to the
00:23:11.416 --> 00:23:14.619
Vine relying on the source of life, jesus christ himself.
00:23:14.619 --> 00:23:18.156
Kirk: and it's--i totally agree with you.
00:23:18.156 --> 00:23:20.091
I think that's exactly what we need to understand from watchman
00:23:20.091 --> 00:23:24.028
And from jesus, that--well, like you said, he's the vine, we're
00:23:24.028 --> 00:23:27.832
The branches, he's the source of life, our performance is not.
00:23:27.832 --> 00:23:32.637
And that's the pretense that watchman nee was talking about.
00:23:32.637 --> 00:23:35.440
It's like--and sometimes, we see it when we go to church.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:38.176
I see it and i try not to have a critical spirit.
00:23:38.176 --> 00:23:40.411
I wanna have a compassionate lens through which to see these
00:23:40.411 --> 00:23:43.114
People, but i see them working so hard to convince maybe god
00:23:43.114 --> 00:23:48.219
That they really love him, maybe convince others that they love
00:23:48.219 --> 00:23:52.390
God, or maybe convince themselves that they're really
00:23:52.390 --> 00:23:55.526
Devoted followers.
00:23:55.526 --> 00:23:56.961
But it seems to be so incongruent with their private
00:23:56.961 --> 00:24:00.131
Life when they're not at the front of the church with their
00:24:00.131 --> 00:24:02.567
Hands up in the air crying that i think, man, that looks like an
00:24:02.567 --> 00:24:05.503
Exhausting life.
00:24:05.503 --> 00:24:06.971
You're just--you're just trying so hard when i just don't think
00:24:06.971 --> 00:24:11.042
That's who you really are.
00:24:11.042 --> 00:24:12.410
Hosanna: right.
00:24:12.410 --> 00:24:13.745
I would say something i discovered in a lot of my
00:24:13.745 --> 00:24:16.314
Conversations when people would say, "i feel i have to be
00:24:16.314 --> 00:24:18.316
Perfect for god."
00:24:18.316 --> 00:24:19.651
Like you said, "oh, am i not supposed to obey god--".
00:24:19.651 --> 00:24:22.020
Kirk: "thank god for my friends, because they're watching me."
00:24:22.020 --> 00:24:23.755
Hosanna: right, "i need to be perfect."
00:24:23.755 --> 00:24:25.123
And i thought, okay, the word of god does say that jesus
00:24:25.123 --> 00:24:27.191
Says that.
00:24:27.191 --> 00:24:28.526
I would always tell people the word of god doesn't tell--jesus
00:24:28.526 --> 00:24:30.261
Never tells you to be perfect, and they said, "yes, he does.
00:24:30.261 --> 00:24:32.697
He said to be perfect."
00:24:32.697 --> 00:24:34.065
So, i unpacked this passage in matthew.
00:24:34.065 --> 00:24:35.933
Jesus--because if the bible says it then yeah that's what i
00:24:35.933 --> 00:24:38.002
Wanna do.
00:24:38.002 --> 00:24:39.337
And jesus says, "be perfect, therefore your father
00:24:39.337 --> 00:24:40.672
Is perfect."
00:24:40.672 --> 00:24:42.040
But the word--the word that jesus used for perfect didn't
00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:46.110
Mean be impressive.
00:24:46.110 --> 00:24:48.346
The word actually unpacked in the original language meant to
00:24:48.346 --> 00:24:51.683
Be whole.
00:24:51.683 --> 00:24:53.017
It meant to be complete.
00:24:53.017 --> 00:24:54.352
It meant to not live fragmented.
00:24:54.352 --> 00:24:55.720
It meant to not live a life of duplicity.
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:57.455
And in context, jesus is actually talking about the
00:24:57.455 --> 00:25:00.491
Religious people of the day, people who were putting on
00:25:00.491 --> 00:25:03.461
Spiritual shows, people who seemed to have the perfect
00:25:03.461 --> 00:25:06.864
Routines, people who seem to be the most spiritual.
00:25:06.864 --> 00:25:09.600
He's even referencing the religious people who would try
00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:12.403
To look more humble when they were fasting, they wanted people
00:25:12.403 --> 00:25:15.006
To know how spiritual they were.
00:25:15.006 --> 00:25:16.474
And jesus was saying to his followers and his disciples and
00:25:16.474 --> 00:25:18.943
His students, he was saying, "but not you.
00:25:18.943 --> 00:25:21.679
If you follow me, i don't want you to just put on
00:25:21.679 --> 00:25:25.183
Spiritual shows.
00:25:25.183 --> 00:25:26.551
I don't want you to just look like you follow god."
00:25:26.551 --> 00:25:28.519
He was saying, "look at the religious people, look how they
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:31.122
Put on spiritual shows, but they don't actually love people.
00:25:31.122 --> 00:25:34.792
They're not actually kind to people, they're not actually
00:25:34.792 --> 00:25:37.595
Gracious, they live fragmented lives."
00:25:37.595 --> 00:25:39.664
So, jesus was actually saying, "you live whole, you
00:25:39.664 --> 00:25:43.634
Be complete."
00:25:43.634 --> 00:25:44.969
Jesus was actually saying, "if you follow me, no more
00:25:44.969 --> 00:25:48.373
Spiritual shows.
00:25:48.373 --> 00:25:49.741
I want you to love god and love others completely and fully,"
00:25:49.741 --> 00:25:54.612
And that's the call that comes from god.
00:25:54.612 --> 00:25:56.214
So be perfect, love everyone well like your father god is
00:25:56.214 --> 00:26:01.319
Perfect and whole.
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:02.720
That's really what god has called us to do.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:05.690
Kirk: one of the roadblocks that you mentioned in your book, i
00:26:05.690 --> 00:26:08.226
Think a lot of people can relate to is this feeling of silence
00:26:08.226 --> 00:26:12.230
From god.
00:26:12.230 --> 00:26:13.564
I call out to him, i don't hear anything back.
00:26:13.564 --> 00:26:15.199
He's not answering me.
00:26:15.199 --> 00:26:16.534
Maybe he's not interested.
00:26:16.534 --> 00:26:17.869
Maybe he's not even there.
00:26:17.869 --> 00:26:19.237
How can people get past that roadblock?
00:26:19.237 --> 00:26:20.972
Hosanna: yeah, i think a lot of us feel like we have to hear
00:26:20.972 --> 00:26:23.574
From god the way someone else hears from god.
00:26:23.574 --> 00:26:26.110
Kirk: and they speak in those terms, kind of like we're
00:26:26.110 --> 00:26:28.012
Talking right now.
00:26:28.012 --> 00:26:29.380
Like, based on what they're saying, you're pretty sure they
00:26:29.380 --> 00:26:31.215
Just walked down the road and they heard this voice coming
00:26:31.215 --> 00:26:33.718
From a tree or something.
00:26:33.718 --> 00:26:35.319
God said--had a conversation with them.
00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:36.888
Hosanna: and then we compare that, how we hear from god,
00:26:36.888 --> 00:26:39.624
To other people.
00:26:39.624 --> 00:26:40.992
Kirk: "what's wrong with me?"
00:26:40.992 --> 00:26:42.326
Hosanna: right, or if we don't hear from god the way they do,
00:26:42.326 --> 00:26:44.061
Maybe we think they're fake, maybe we think they're lying.
00:26:44.061 --> 00:26:45.997
Like, i can see how these roadblocks are ways that the
00:26:45.997 --> 00:26:48.099
Enemy of our souls has used to divide us and made us hate each
00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:51.436
Other, or compare ourselves to each other, or think the other
00:26:51.436 --> 00:26:54.205
Person doesn't have a real relationship with god when they
00:26:54.205 --> 00:26:56.240
Simply have a different relationship with god.
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:58.543
So i would say this, i would say the way that you hear from god
00:26:58.543 --> 00:27:01.679
May be totally different from how your mom hears from god or
00:27:01.679 --> 00:27:04.048
That one person on instagram hears from god.
00:27:04.048 --> 00:27:06.083
But a key thing to know about hearing from god is that it
00:27:06.083 --> 00:27:08.753
Comes first out of a relationship with jesus.
00:27:08.753 --> 00:27:12.356
Jesus is what god sounds like.
00:27:12.356 --> 00:27:14.792
You need to spend your life around god's voice to know what
00:27:14.792 --> 00:27:19.096
His voice sounds like.
00:27:19.096 --> 00:27:20.431
You wanna be in his word.
00:27:20.431 --> 00:27:22.233
You wanna have a real relationship with jesus.
00:27:22.233 --> 00:27:24.469
The bible says--jesus says, "my sheep hear my voice and they
00:27:24.469 --> 00:27:28.206
Follow me."
00:27:28.206 --> 00:27:29.574
The fact that he uses the word "my" tells us that there's
00:27:29.574 --> 00:27:31.609
Something personal and relational between the two.
00:27:31.609 --> 00:27:35.146
So, first you have a relationship with jesus and you
00:27:35.146 --> 00:27:37.982
Spend your life around god's voice, so you know what god's
00:27:37.982 --> 00:27:40.818
Voice is like.
00:27:40.818 --> 00:27:42.153
So, what does jesus sound like?
00:27:42.153 --> 00:27:43.654
Jesus is what god sounds like and if you have a real
00:27:43.654 --> 00:27:46.824
Relationship with jesus first and you surround yourself with
00:27:46.824 --> 00:27:49.260
God's voice, you will better be able to tell the difference
00:27:49.260 --> 00:27:52.730
Between if it's god's voice or not.
00:27:52.730 --> 00:27:56.067
Kirk: hosanna, what's the single most important takeaway you want
00:27:56.067 --> 00:27:58.903
People to have from this book?
00:27:58.903 --> 00:28:01.405
Hosanna: your relationship with god does not have to look like
00:28:01.405 --> 00:28:04.175
Anyone else's relationship with god, and it doesn't have to look
00:28:04.175 --> 00:28:07.345
Like it did years ago.
00:28:07.345 --> 00:28:09.113
God wants to have a real relationship with the real you
00:28:09.113 --> 00:28:12.550
In the current season you're in.
00:28:12.550 --> 00:28:14.652
You can uncomplicate it.
00:28:14.652 --> 00:28:16.120
Kirk: that's awesome.
00:28:16.120 --> 00:28:17.455
Thank you so much for writing this book and
00:28:17.455 --> 00:28:18.789
Thanks for this conversation.
00:28:18.789 --> 00:28:20.124
Hosanna: thanks for having me.
00:28:20.124 --> 00:28:21.492
Kirk: after the break, alena franklin will share insights
00:28:21.492 --> 00:28:23.761
That she learned about god that she wrote specifically for
00:28:23.761 --> 00:28:26.864
Teenage girls in a book called "god is."
00:28:26.864 --> 00:28:29.934
It's coming up next on "takeaways."
00:28:29.934 --> 00:28:32.069
♪♪♪
00:28:32.069 --> 00:28:37.108
♪♪♪
00:28:37.413 --> 00:28:42.451
Kirk: my next guest, alena franklin, is an author, an
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.089
Actress, and a vocalist with a passion for sharing the hope
00:28:47.089 --> 00:28:50.192
Of jesus.
00:28:50.192 --> 00:28:51.527
She serves as a spokesperson for for girls like you ministries,
00:28:51.527 --> 00:28:54.630
And she's written this new book for teenage girls called "god
00:28:54.630 --> 00:28:58.501
Is: 60 days of learning who god is to understand who we are."
00:28:58.501 --> 00:29:03.239
Alena, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
00:29:03.239 --> 00:29:04.974
Alena: thanks for having me.
00:29:04.974 --> 00:29:06.309
Kirk: you know, i feel like i know you even though we've never
00:29:06.309 --> 00:29:08.844
Met because i watched "war room" and it's one of my very favorite
00:29:08.844 --> 00:29:11.614
Kendrick brothers movies and you had a little cameo in "the
00:29:11.614 --> 00:29:16.319
Forge" too, right?
00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:17.653
Alena: yes, yeah.
00:29:17.653 --> 00:29:19.021
Kirk: anyway, i'm so glad that you're here and i'm so glad that
00:29:19.021 --> 00:29:21.223
You wrote this book because i have daughters and i have a
00:29:21.223 --> 00:29:24.393
Granddaughter, and this is the perfect kind of book for her
00:29:24.393 --> 00:29:27.196
Because i want her to know exactly what you're teaching,
00:29:27.196 --> 00:29:30.232
Who god is, so that she can know who she is.
00:29:30.232 --> 00:29:33.235
So, with this being your very first solo-authored book, you've
00:29:33.235 --> 00:29:38.874
Co-written other books, but this one is all all by yourself.
00:29:38.874 --> 00:29:41.377
What inspired you to write it and who did you write it for?
00:29:41.377 --> 00:29:45.481
Alena: if i'm gonna write something, it needs to be
00:29:45.481 --> 00:29:47.083
Exactly what god would have me write about, and i just was
00:29:47.083 --> 00:29:50.586
Thinking, and as i was thinking about what would i want to write
00:29:50.586 --> 00:29:52.722
About, who would i want to write to, i just thought of myself,
00:29:52.722 --> 00:29:55.691
The past really eight years, specifically in my teenage
00:29:55.691 --> 00:29:58.561
Years, going through, i mean, awful, awful tragedy, and what
00:29:58.561 --> 00:30:04.667
Did i learn in that season, what am i still learning.
00:30:04.667 --> 00:30:06.869
And it was all about the character of god, who god is
00:30:06.869 --> 00:30:09.438
To me.
00:30:09.438 --> 00:30:11.273
Who--i don't know, like my idea of him being flipped on its head
00:30:11.273 --> 00:30:16.345
And me being able to really, like, discover the truth about
00:30:16.345 --> 00:30:18.714
Him, that was the past--that's been the past eight years of my
00:30:18.714 --> 00:30:21.017
Life, so it inspired me.
00:30:21.017 --> 00:30:22.952
Kirk: so, this was really inspired by your own journey
00:30:22.952 --> 00:30:25.554
With god or discovering who god is versus maybe who you thought
00:30:25.554 --> 00:30:28.624
He was.
00:30:28.624 --> 00:30:31.761
And did that--did that help you discover who you are and help
00:30:31.761 --> 00:30:37.833
You see who yourself more clearly when you understood more
00:30:37.833 --> 00:30:40.703
Of who god is?
00:30:40.703 --> 00:30:42.038
Alena: absolutely.
00:30:42.038 --> 00:30:43.406
I think not only was i going through a hard time, but also
00:30:43.406 --> 00:30:45.274
Just naturally as a teenage girl, you're trying to figure
00:30:45.274 --> 00:30:47.877
Out who you are as a young woman.
00:30:47.877 --> 00:30:50.613
You're just spending a lot of time trying to figure out who
00:30:50.613 --> 00:30:52.314
You are, and i noticed things felt so big and so overwhelming.
00:30:52.314 --> 00:30:56.118
And when i just looked up at who god was, all of a sudden all of
00:30:56.118 --> 00:30:59.588
This was so small, and i remembered why i was here and i
00:30:59.588 --> 00:31:03.592
Understood the way that he made me, but that all came from
00:31:03.592 --> 00:31:07.363
Learning who he was first.
00:31:07.363 --> 00:31:09.532
Kirk: that's exactly a description of what helped me
00:31:09.532 --> 00:31:13.869
The most when i was on a tv show as a young man.
00:31:13.869 --> 00:31:17.673
I was an atheist and i had no idea who god is and so i kind of
00:31:17.673 --> 00:31:21.243
Thought i was the god of my own world and i didn't understand
00:31:21.243 --> 00:31:25.247
That, no, the world's not all about me even though, you know,
00:31:25.247 --> 00:31:30.920
There were fans who liked the show and all that kind of stuff.
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.823
And you're right, it's not until i understood who god is that i
00:31:33.823 --> 00:31:37.059
Could rightly understand who i am in relationship to him, and
00:31:37.059 --> 00:31:40.696
Then everything started to make sense.
00:31:40.696 --> 00:31:42.765
Yeah, that is so good that you--that you're teaching this
00:31:42.765 --> 00:31:46.469
To teenage girls specifically.
00:31:46.469 --> 00:31:48.904
One of the things you state in your book, alena, is when my
00:31:48.904 --> 00:31:52.108
Life got turned upside down going into my freshman year of
00:31:52.108 --> 00:31:54.910
High school, so did my view of god.
00:31:54.910 --> 00:31:58.614
How did your view of god get turned upside down in
00:31:58.614 --> 00:32:02.451
High school?
00:32:02.451 --> 00:32:03.786
Alena: yeah, i think my view of god went from, you know, just a
00:32:03.786 --> 00:32:06.722
Knowledge to experiential.
00:32:06.722 --> 00:32:09.158
As a little girl, i grew up in like a ministry family and they
00:32:09.158 --> 00:32:12.228
Really represented jesus, like truly represented him, and so
00:32:12.228 --> 00:32:15.364
I've always--i don't know a day that i didn't know god or love
00:32:15.364 --> 00:32:18.134
Him, but i guess my views of him were just what i had heard.
00:32:18.134 --> 00:32:22.371
I had heard of his goodness and i guess i had seen it all over
00:32:22.371 --> 00:32:24.907
My life up to that point.
00:32:24.907 --> 00:32:26.242
And then when he allowed such pain, i all of a sudden had all
00:32:26.242 --> 00:32:29.612
These questions for god and identified with job and a lot of
00:32:29.612 --> 00:32:33.149
The characters in the bible for the first time.
00:32:33.149 --> 00:32:35.818
With this wrestle of, like, god, you say that you're good and all
00:32:35.818 --> 00:32:38.487
These things, but also you let this happen and so how can those
00:32:38.487 --> 00:32:41.657
Go together?
00:32:41.657 --> 00:32:43.025
And really, it just began this wrestle with god for the for the
00:32:43.025 --> 00:32:46.729
Next eight years.
00:32:46.729 --> 00:32:48.063
And the really beautiful thing is that god didn't stop pursuing
00:32:48.063 --> 00:32:50.332
Me in the midst of my wrestle with him.
00:32:50.332 --> 00:32:52.401
In fact, i think he was like, "bring it on, bring your
00:32:52.401 --> 00:32:54.503
Questions on because as you ask these questions, you're gonna
00:32:54.503 --> 00:32:57.173
Get to know me deeper and in a better way," and so, the basis
00:32:57.173 --> 00:33:02.077
Of my understanding of god is still true.
00:33:02.077 --> 00:33:03.812
God loves me.
00:33:03.812 --> 00:33:05.147
He cares about me, he's protecting me, and also there is
00:33:05.147 --> 00:33:07.416
This wrestle and this grittiness to god that i hadn't experienced
00:33:07.416 --> 00:33:11.754
Yet until pain.
00:33:11.754 --> 00:33:13.589
And i guess that's the part of god that i guess get most
00:33:13.589 --> 00:33:16.325
Excited about is his grit and his desire for us to get to know
00:33:16.325 --> 00:33:19.795
Him deeper through trials and pain, as hard as it is.
00:33:19.795 --> 00:33:24.567
I wouldn't reverse any of it because of--because of how i've
00:33:24.567 --> 00:33:28.771
Gotten to know god in this way.
00:33:28.771 --> 00:33:32.007
Kirk: how did you wrestling through all these difficult
00:33:32.007 --> 00:33:35.211
Things through the loss of your mom, and questioning god, and
00:33:35.211 --> 00:33:39.148
Your perception of his faithfulness, his goodness, his
00:33:39.148 --> 00:33:42.918
Answering your prayers when you probably would have done
00:33:42.918 --> 00:33:47.756
Anything for the story to be written a different way.
00:33:47.756 --> 00:33:52.528
How did that end up changing you and your view of god?
00:33:52.528 --> 00:33:59.068
You know, how do you go from, "god, why are you letting these
00:33:59.068 --> 00:34:02.171
Things happen to me," to--i mean, do you feel like you
00:34:02.171 --> 00:34:05.941
Understand now, or do you feel like, "no, i just trust god even
00:34:05.941 --> 00:34:09.411
Though i don't understand?"
00:34:09.411 --> 00:34:10.746
Like, how did it change your faith?
00:34:10.746 --> 00:34:13.315
Alena: i think i'm a bit more comfortable with the
00:34:13.315 --> 00:34:15.184
Complexities that god has to offer us.
00:34:15.184 --> 00:34:18.721
I'm okay with the both-and.
00:34:18.721 --> 00:34:20.689
And i think that's a part of who god is, is he is love and he is
00:34:20.689 --> 00:34:25.461
Faithful and he is our protector and he is good and also he is
00:34:25.461 --> 00:34:29.365
Righteous and he is holy, he is a mystery.
00:34:29.365 --> 00:34:31.900
Like, i'm okay with the wrestle.
00:34:31.900 --> 00:34:35.070
I think, one, something that i couldn't answer for myself after
00:34:35.070 --> 00:34:39.241
My mom died was: is god good?
00:34:39.241 --> 00:34:41.777
That took me a long time to really believe.
00:34:41.777 --> 00:34:44.947
And now standing on the other side of grief, i fully
00:34:44.947 --> 00:34:47.616
Believe it.
00:34:47.616 --> 00:34:48.951
And so, that's something i think that you think you believe it
00:34:48.951 --> 00:34:50.619
And then when something hard happens, you have to really
00:34:50.619 --> 00:34:53.322
Decide if you're going to believe that.
00:34:53.322 --> 00:34:54.923
And so, i think that'd probably be my greatest--
00:34:54.923 --> 00:34:57.426
Kirk: alena, can i ask you about that?
00:34:57.426 --> 00:34:59.194
That's really interesting to me.
00:34:59.194 --> 00:35:01.397
When something that is objectively and understandably
00:35:01.397 --> 00:35:10.205
Perceived as not good, like what happened to your mom, how did
00:35:10.205 --> 00:35:16.345
You come back around to saying, "i still believe god is good"?
00:35:16.345 --> 00:35:20.082
Why?
00:35:20.082 --> 00:35:21.417
Why do you believe god is good?
00:35:21.417 --> 00:35:22.818
Alena: because he kept me.
00:35:22.818 --> 00:35:25.287
I went through a lot of different versions of myself
00:35:25.287 --> 00:35:28.223
That were not awesome in the midst of grief, and not once did
00:35:28.223 --> 00:35:31.860
God turn his face from me, not once did god stop pursuing me,
00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:35.931
And that in itself is his goodness.
00:35:35.931 --> 00:35:37.800
Like, that i could be wrapped up in my anger, in my sin, and he's
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.371
Still be waiting at the door for me to let him in.
00:35:42.371 --> 00:35:45.307
And that pursuit of me and his pursuit of all of us, i think,
00:35:45.307 --> 00:35:48.877
Is the greatest depiction of his goodness that this holy and
00:35:48.877 --> 00:35:51.480
Righteous god would come down and pursue us as sinners, and i
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:56.618
Think that's a part of you.
00:35:56.618 --> 00:35:57.986
Once you understand who god is, you understand how much of a
00:35:57.986 --> 00:36:00.756
Sinner you really are and that itself is a testimony to the
00:36:00.756 --> 00:36:04.226
Goodness of god, that he's pursuing us regardless of our
00:36:04.226 --> 00:36:07.463
Filthy rags.
00:36:07.463 --> 00:36:08.831
We we have nothing to offer him and he kept pursuing me and not
00:36:08.831 --> 00:36:11.400
Just screams of his goodness to me.
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:15.371
Kirk: why do you think it's so important that young women read
00:36:15.371 --> 00:36:18.741
This book and they understand who god is?
00:36:18.741 --> 00:36:22.745
Alena: i think at the moment we think we have an identity
00:36:22.745 --> 00:36:25.748
Problem, we think we don't know who we are--and we don't, we
00:36:25.748 --> 00:36:28.517
Don't know who we are.
00:36:28.517 --> 00:36:29.885
But i would say that for women, teens, for people in general,
00:36:29.885 --> 00:36:33.589
Deeper than the identity problem is a maker problem.
00:36:33.589 --> 00:36:35.991
We don't understand who made us, so how would we understand who
00:36:35.991 --> 00:36:38.961
We are?
00:36:38.961 --> 00:36:40.295
And i think what i've experienced in my own life is
00:36:40.295 --> 00:36:42.364
That when i began to understand who god was or who god is, i
00:36:42.364 --> 00:36:46.001
Started to live life differently.
00:36:46.001 --> 00:36:48.070
And i would love to see a generation of women that live
00:36:48.070 --> 00:36:50.973
Life differently with more purpose, with more confidence,
00:36:50.973 --> 00:36:53.842
Regardless of what's going on physically, understanding that
00:36:53.842 --> 00:36:58.080
They have this big god in heaven that loves them and wants them
00:36:58.080 --> 00:37:02.551
And pursues them and wants to use them.
00:37:02.551 --> 00:37:04.887
I just think that changes the way that we live and how
00:37:04.887 --> 00:37:07.523
Powerful would it be to see a generation of women--i keep
00:37:07.523 --> 00:37:10.659
Saying women because i am a woman, so i get passionate.
00:37:10.659 --> 00:37:12.528
But how cool would it be to see a generation of people in
00:37:12.528 --> 00:37:15.230
General that know who god is, and in turn, that changes the
00:37:15.230 --> 00:37:18.534
Way that they see themselves.
00:37:18.534 --> 00:37:21.303
Kirk: what are some of the messages that a--that our
00:37:21.303 --> 00:37:24.440
Godless world is sending to young women today?
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:28.043
And if they believe those messages, where is it gonna
00:37:28.043 --> 00:37:31.580
Lead them?
00:37:31.580 --> 00:37:32.948
Alena: yeah, i think some of the greatest messages i learned was
00:37:32.948 --> 00:37:37.286
That it was about me.
00:37:37.286 --> 00:37:38.654
Like, if i can just do this better, or--and i'm also like an
00:37:38.654 --> 00:37:42.324
Oldest oldest child, so i have an achiever-performer
00:37:42.324 --> 00:37:45.561
Issue anyway.
00:37:45.561 --> 00:37:46.895
Kirk: me, too, i'm right there with you.
00:37:46.895 --> 00:37:48.230
Alena: yeah, and so i think the greatest message that i received
00:37:48.230 --> 00:37:51.467
Was that i had to be something in order to be loved.
00:37:51.467 --> 00:37:54.470
I think a lot of women feel that, and i mean that leads us
00:37:54.470 --> 00:37:59.241
Down all kinds of paths that are not of god, or good for us, or
00:37:59.241 --> 00:38:03.245
Going to get us anywhere because at the end of the day, the only
00:38:03.245 --> 00:38:05.948
Unconditional love we'll ever experience is the father's.
00:38:05.948 --> 00:38:10.586
And so, when we--i think it's an idol when we forget about that
00:38:10.586 --> 00:38:13.622
And we realize that we have a god in heaven who loves us in
00:38:13.622 --> 00:38:16.091
The way that he does, all of a sudden, i don't feel the need to
00:38:16.091 --> 00:38:20.329
Be and do and look in order to be loved.
00:38:20.329 --> 00:38:22.865
I've got this still quiet confidence that i just think is
00:38:22.865 --> 00:38:26.535
So different, it's so countercultural to what we're
00:38:26.535 --> 00:38:28.804
Taught here on earth.
00:38:28.804 --> 00:38:31.840
Kirk: is there a bit of advice that you could give to young
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:34.643
Women who are struggling to fit in with their friends, their
00:38:34.643 --> 00:38:39.147
Friend groups, struggling with a sense of belonging, what would
00:38:39.147 --> 00:38:44.019
You say to them?
00:38:44.019 --> 00:38:45.721
Alena: i always struggle with a sense of belonging.
00:38:45.721 --> 00:38:48.690
I guess i would say where i found the most comfort is in
00:38:48.690 --> 00:38:53.495
Bringing all of those honest feelings to god.
00:38:53.495 --> 00:38:56.098
Like, i just think we don't emphasize enough that god
00:38:56.098 --> 00:38:59.067
Desires our honesty, that he can take it.
00:38:59.067 --> 00:39:01.837
Like, he's already dealing with all of our sin.
00:39:01.837 --> 00:39:03.705
And so, if we're just honest with him, i think a lot of
00:39:03.705 --> 00:39:05.841
Times, we invite him in to meet us somewhere that we don't think
00:39:05.841 --> 00:39:09.545
He can be.
00:39:09.545 --> 00:39:10.879
But in my loneliest moments, i've been honest with god about
00:39:10.879 --> 00:39:13.181
How lonely i am and i've experienced a comfort and a
00:39:13.181 --> 00:39:15.517
Peace like none other.
00:39:15.517 --> 00:39:17.352
And so, i would encourage women--i don't know how to fix
00:39:17.352 --> 00:39:19.521
The problem of belonging, honestly, still figuring that
00:39:19.521 --> 00:39:21.623
One out.
00:39:21.623 --> 00:39:22.958
Maybe that will be the next book, but i do know that god can
00:39:22.958 --> 00:39:25.260
Handle it.
00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:26.628
And so, bringing him my honesty about my loneliness or my lack
00:39:26.628 --> 00:39:28.931
Of belonging, reminds me that i do belong somewhere.
00:39:28.931 --> 00:39:33.268
Kirk: well, i'm really interested in learning more
00:39:33.268 --> 00:39:36.572
About how god has changed you through this whole process and
00:39:36.572 --> 00:39:40.108
Learning how you made your family's faith your own personal
00:39:40.108 --> 00:39:46.181
Conviction, right after the break.
00:39:46.181 --> 00:39:48.450
And when we come back, we're gonna continue our conversation
00:39:48.450 --> 00:39:51.286
With alena about the more we learn and the more we know about
00:39:51.286 --> 00:39:54.656
God, the more we're able to understand ourselves.
00:39:54.656 --> 00:39:57.726
So, don't go away.
00:39:57.726 --> 00:39:59.061
♪♪♪
00:39:59.061 --> 00:40:04.099
♪♪♪
00:40:04.590 --> 00:40:09.628
Kirk: we're back with actress and author alena franklin,
00:40:11.797 --> 00:40:14.333
Discussing her latest book for teenage girls, "god is."
00:40:14.333 --> 00:40:18.737
Well, alena, you had mentioned to us a little bit earlier that
00:40:18.737 --> 00:40:23.241
Your family was a family that talked about faith.
00:40:23.241 --> 00:40:26.745
You guys went to church all the time, not like mine, we didn't
00:40:26.745 --> 00:40:29.448
Ever went to church.
00:40:29.448 --> 00:40:30.782
I was an atheist up until i was about 18 years old.
00:40:30.782 --> 00:40:33.552
So, i remember coming to faith in christ.
00:40:33.552 --> 00:40:35.954
How did you make your faith your own?
00:40:35.954 --> 00:40:41.660
Alena: like, it was the first time that i realized my sin at
00:40:41.660 --> 00:40:44.429
11 years old.
00:40:44.429 --> 00:40:45.797
I was like, oh, i'm a sinner and god loves me this much, and it
00:40:45.797 --> 00:40:48.166
Really just like overcame me, that feeling, and i was like,
00:40:48.166 --> 00:40:50.369
Okay, i wanna get baptized and do the whole thing.
00:40:50.369 --> 00:40:52.604
And i think from there i was like, okay, i own this
00:40:52.604 --> 00:40:54.806
Thing now.
00:40:54.806 --> 00:40:56.141
It's mine.
00:40:56.141 --> 00:40:57.509
And then i think really as life happens to you have to
00:40:57.509 --> 00:41:00.178
Continually decide if your--if your faith is going to be your
00:41:00.178 --> 00:41:03.115
Own when coming from a family that already loves jesus.
00:41:03.115 --> 00:41:06.485
And so, when life smacked me in the face at 14, i had to
00:41:06.485 --> 00:41:10.288
Actively make a decision like, am i gonna keep choosing god or
00:41:10.288 --> 00:41:13.558
I'm--the really beautiful thing is that i knew that he was real.
00:41:13.558 --> 00:41:17.129
Like, because of how i grew up and because of the way that he
00:41:17.129 --> 00:41:19.765
Displayed himself in my life as a young child, i knew he was
00:41:19.765 --> 00:41:22.768
Real, i just didn't know if i wanted to love him.
00:41:22.768 --> 00:41:25.337
And so i got to make that decision for real for real of
00:41:25.337 --> 00:41:27.939
Loving him regardless of what he allowed in my life at 14.
00:41:27.939 --> 00:41:32.077
Kirk: so, if there was a young lady who's watching us right
00:41:32.077 --> 00:41:35.580
Now, who grew up in a family like yours, and yet
00:41:35.580 --> 00:41:38.917
Circumstances are, you know, playing out in a way that--like
00:41:38.917 --> 00:41:44.256
Just seems to make her question everything she thought she knew
00:41:44.256 --> 00:41:47.459
About the goodness and faithfulness of god,
00:41:47.459 --> 00:41:51.063
How would you encourage her to go about seeing if her faith is
00:41:51.063 --> 00:41:56.301
Really just her family's faith or whether it's a genuine
00:41:56.301 --> 00:41:59.304
Personal faith?
00:41:59.304 --> 00:42:01.873
Alena: i would--i would encourage her to not be afraid
00:42:01.873 --> 00:42:04.242
To go there, to go to the questions.
00:42:04.242 --> 00:42:06.545
Kirk: like you were saying earlier, just being--bring those
00:42:06.545 --> 00:42:08.680
Questions, the honest questions.
00:42:08.680 --> 00:42:10.015
Alena: yeah, i think that's the only way god can meet us.
00:42:10.015 --> 00:42:12.184
And so, it feels scary and because i had a relationship
00:42:12.184 --> 00:42:16.421
With god, i was very vocal to him about how i disagreed with
00:42:16.421 --> 00:42:19.291
What he had allowed, and he met me with such grace and wisdom
00:42:19.291 --> 00:42:22.761
When he could have just like told me to be quiet, you know,
00:42:22.761 --> 00:42:24.963
And so i would encourage women or the girl you're talking about
00:42:24.963 --> 00:42:28.800
To just approach the throne of grace.
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:30.202
The bible tells us to approach the throne of grace freely, just
00:42:30.202 --> 00:42:33.004
To approach him and ask questions, and that's where you
00:42:33.004 --> 00:42:35.974
Have to start.
00:42:35.974 --> 00:42:37.342
You can't fake your way to loving him again.
00:42:37.342 --> 00:42:39.244
You can't, you really can't.
00:42:39.244 --> 00:42:40.579
You just have to be for real with him.
00:42:40.579 --> 00:42:42.748
And i think in turn, he takes our hands slowly and walks with
00:42:42.748 --> 00:42:45.784
Us and, and kindly shows us who he is.
00:42:45.784 --> 00:42:49.521
He's very patient too.
00:42:49.521 --> 00:42:51.456
Kirk: you know, you mentioned that you had read through the
00:42:51.456 --> 00:42:54.092
Book of job or at least considered what job went
00:42:54.092 --> 00:42:58.130
Through, which was so much loss and so much grief.
00:42:58.130 --> 00:43:02.567
And i was so impacted by the book of job also in seeing job's
00:43:02.567 --> 00:43:08.240
Honesty with god and god's willingness to listen to all of
00:43:08.240 --> 00:43:12.110
His honest questions and then say, "okay, job, i've got some
00:43:12.110 --> 00:43:17.315
Questions for you," and that really reset job's framework,
00:43:17.315 --> 00:43:22.854
Helped him to recalibrate who he is based on understanding the
00:43:22.854 --> 00:43:26.658
One who causes the lightning to flash through the sky and sets
00:43:26.658 --> 00:43:31.296
The boundaries for the ocean and keeps the seasons coming.
00:43:31.296 --> 00:43:35.333
It's sort of overwhelmed him with the power and the
00:43:35.333 --> 00:43:39.471
Sovereignty of god and that even though he didn't understand that
00:43:39.471 --> 00:43:43.041
There was this whole thing going on between god and satan, and he
00:43:43.041 --> 00:43:47.479
Experienced so much loss which didn't make any sense to him.
00:43:47.479 --> 00:43:50.081
He was able to trust him in the end and say, "god, you are god."
00:43:50.081 --> 00:43:54.319
Many of your chapters in your book, "god is," begin with "god
00:43:54.319 --> 00:43:58.423
Is," and then you have a characteristic
00:43:58.423 --> 00:44:00.425
Or an attribute.
00:44:00.425 --> 00:44:01.760
What are some of the attributes of god that really resonated
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:04.596
With you in this book?
00:44:04.596 --> 00:44:07.132
Alena: i think of the ones that were hardest to write about
00:44:07.132 --> 00:44:09.134
Because you really had to go, what does that mean?
00:44:09.134 --> 00:44:11.036
I think god is holy is what just came to my mind, which when you
00:44:11.036 --> 00:44:13.972
Talk about his sovereignty, which is also another one, god
00:44:13.972 --> 00:44:16.508
Is sovereign.
00:44:16.508 --> 00:44:17.843
I just think about how, yeah, a lot of times he has this whole
00:44:17.843 --> 00:44:20.812
Thing going on with satan.
00:44:20.812 --> 00:44:22.614
He's dealing with him, and in turn, we have to experience hard
00:44:22.614 --> 00:44:25.817
Things or whatever.
00:44:25.817 --> 00:44:27.185
And also, he causes the sun to rise and it to go down.
00:44:27.185 --> 00:44:29.254
Like, he is sovereign and he is perfect, and so, i love thinking
00:44:29.254 --> 00:44:33.792
About his holiness.
00:44:33.792 --> 00:44:35.193
God is our protector is another one that i really like.
00:44:35.193 --> 00:44:37.629
Kirk: can i ask you, what is god's holiness?
00:44:37.629 --> 00:44:39.731
What does that mean?
00:44:39.731 --> 00:44:41.099
Sometimes we say things like, you know, like--
00:44:41.099 --> 00:44:42.434
Well, you know, some people are holier than
00:44:42.434 --> 00:44:44.469
Thou, and that's sort of a negative thing, but god is holy
00:44:44.469 --> 00:44:47.873
In a good way.
00:44:47.873 --> 00:44:49.207
What is the holiness of god?
00:44:49.207 --> 00:44:50.675
Alena: he's perfect, and i think the really beautiful thing about
00:44:50.675 --> 00:44:54.546
That is that we don't have to be.
00:44:54.546 --> 00:44:56.648
Like we can't be, so it's really relieving to know that there is
00:44:56.648 --> 00:44:59.751
A god who is fully perfect.
00:44:59.751 --> 00:45:02.320
And also, i love including the part about jesus that jesus came
00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:06.491
Down as fully man and fully god, addressing our unholiness and
00:45:06.491 --> 00:45:10.996
Our imperfection.
00:45:10.996 --> 00:45:12.330
And so, i think a part--mostly god's holiness--and i might get
00:45:12.330 --> 00:45:14.599
In trouble, i didn't really go to seminary, but i think most of
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:16.701
His holiness is that he's perfect and because of that, he
00:45:16.701 --> 00:45:20.105
Covers all of it.
00:45:20.105 --> 00:45:21.439
I just think that's really cool.
00:45:21.439 --> 00:45:23.642
Kirk: and you had mentioned his sovereignty.
00:45:23.642 --> 00:45:26.311
That's been a big one for me.
00:45:26.311 --> 00:45:28.013
I mean the idea that god is fully in control of all things,
00:45:28.013 --> 00:45:31.816
Even the hard things and difficult things, there's a
00:45:31.816 --> 00:45:34.953
Verse that i just would love to just write across the walls of
00:45:34.953 --> 00:45:38.223
My house.
00:45:38.223 --> 00:45:39.557
It's: "god is working all things together for the good of those
00:45:39.557 --> 00:45:42.794
Who love him and are called according to his purpose."
00:45:42.794 --> 00:45:46.431
And for me, if it just comes down to, do i believe that
00:45:46.431 --> 00:45:53.138
Or not.
00:45:53.138 --> 00:45:54.506
You know, do i really believe that god is sovereign and that
00:45:54.506 --> 00:45:57.309
He's good, that he's holy and perfect.
00:45:57.309 --> 00:46:00.145
Because if he really is good and he really is in control, then i
00:46:00.145 --> 00:46:05.784
Don't have to understand everything, but i can trust that
00:46:05.784 --> 00:46:08.653
He does.
00:46:08.653 --> 00:46:09.988
Alena: yeah, because he's displaying that sovereignty all
00:46:09.988 --> 00:46:11.656
The time for us, and then when things are hard, we want to
00:46:11.656 --> 00:46:14.659
Question and wonder if he's still sovereign or--but he's
00:46:14.659 --> 00:46:17.529
Always sovereign.
00:46:17.529 --> 00:46:18.897
He's showing us all the time.
00:46:18.897 --> 00:46:20.231
Kirk: you have a last chapter and it is god is compassionate.
00:46:20.231 --> 00:46:24.469
What do teen girls need to know about the compassion of god that
00:46:24.469 --> 00:46:28.239
Would truly impact their life if they understood it?
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:32.877
Alena: i've been reading through the gospels because i wrote a
00:46:32.877 --> 00:46:36.514
Book on the character of god and there's still so much in my life
00:46:36.514 --> 00:46:40.986
That i struggle with.
00:46:40.986 --> 00:46:42.320
And so, i'm like there must be something i'm missing.
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:43.755
Oh, it's the person of jesus who's going to help me learn how
00:46:43.755 --> 00:46:45.757
To live here on earth, and i think compassion is one of the
00:46:45.757 --> 00:46:49.327
Greatest things that we see jesus display.
00:46:49.327 --> 00:46:52.831
And really, i think what it looks like is he slows down and
00:46:52.831 --> 00:46:55.900
He sees the unseeable.
00:46:55.900 --> 00:46:58.036
And i think like, if the god of the universe came down and did
00:46:58.036 --> 00:47:02.240
That, like, surely there's something we could learn from
00:47:02.240 --> 00:47:04.976
That and something that would really empower us and impact
00:47:04.976 --> 00:47:08.947
Us greatly.
00:47:08.947 --> 00:47:10.315
And i think, in the same way that we have to get out of the
00:47:10.315 --> 00:47:12.784
Way to--get out of the way to understand who god is by looking
00:47:12.784 --> 00:47:15.420
Up and realizing how small we are.
00:47:15.420 --> 00:47:17.789
When we take the time to see other people, which i think our
00:47:17.789 --> 00:47:20.992
Generation struggles with in general because we're just like
00:47:20.992 --> 00:47:22.560
This, we're trying to get where we're trying to go.
00:47:22.560 --> 00:47:25.130
But i think when we do that, there is a real heart posture
00:47:25.130 --> 00:47:28.066
Change that eases anxiety, that eases fear, like when we slow
00:47:28.066 --> 00:47:32.103
Down and we see other people, all of a sudden, the things that
00:47:32.103 --> 00:47:34.672
I'm wrestling with or that feels like such a big deal are no
00:47:34.672 --> 00:47:38.276
Longer a big deal, and i--and i think that's freeing, not only
00:47:38.276 --> 00:47:42.480
For the people that are being seen, but also for us that, oh
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:44.783
My gosh, i'm not the center of my story.
00:47:44.783 --> 00:47:47.285
Like, there are other people to be loved on, and yeah, i think
00:47:47.285 --> 00:47:50.355
Jesus displays that for us really well.
00:47:50.355 --> 00:47:53.558
Kirk: if you're hoping that there is one takeaway that a
00:47:53.558 --> 00:47:56.795
Young woman would get reading this book, what would it be?
00:47:56.795 --> 00:48:00.098
Alena: that god is approachable.
00:48:00.098 --> 00:48:01.866
I think we are growing up with a lot of, like, people who had
00:48:01.866 --> 00:48:07.205
Graduated from seminary and done all the things, which is
00:48:07.205 --> 00:48:09.407
Really incredible.
00:48:09.407 --> 00:48:10.909
I thought i had to read through systematic theology to
00:48:10.909 --> 00:48:13.144
Understand who god was on a foundational level, and i think
00:48:13.144 --> 00:48:17.315
For a lot of us that stops us from even trying to figure out
00:48:17.315 --> 00:48:20.819
Who god is.
00:48:20.819 --> 00:48:22.253
And so, i want girls to know that he's approachable.
00:48:22.253 --> 00:48:24.556
Like, there are tons and tons of characteristics and attributes
00:48:24.556 --> 00:48:27.759
Of god that we can understand and that will impact the way we
00:48:27.759 --> 00:48:31.129
Live and that will lay like an incredible foundation for the
00:48:31.129 --> 00:48:33.998
Rest of our lives, that we can actually learn, like it's
00:48:33.998 --> 00:48:37.869
Actually possible.
00:48:37.869 --> 00:48:39.237
And so, i just, i hope that this is an introduction to the bible
00:48:39.237 --> 00:48:41.873
For some girls, that they would feel like the bible is all of a
00:48:41.873 --> 00:48:44.742
Sudden approachable, 'cause they're like, "wait, i wanna
00:48:44.742 --> 00:48:47.445
Know more," and then all of a sudden, the bible is broken down
00:48:47.445 --> 00:48:49.647
In a way that's like, "oh, it's not actually that complicated."
00:48:49.647 --> 00:48:52.450
I would love for girls to feel that confidence.
00:48:52.450 --> 00:48:56.221
Kirk: well, i hope they will, and i'm sure they will if they
00:48:56.221 --> 00:48:59.824
Really dive into your book.
00:48:59.824 --> 00:49:01.159
Thanks so much for writing it and thanks for
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:02.527
This conversation.
00:49:02.527 --> 00:49:03.862
Alena: thanks for having me.
00:49:03.862 --> 00:49:05.196
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's "takeaways."
00:49:05.196 --> 00:49:07.499
♪♪♪
00:49:07.499 --> 00:49:12.537
♪♪♪
00:49:12.977 --> 00:49:18.015
Kirk: so many of us wrestle with identity, who we are, how god
00:49:20.451 --> 00:49:24.822
Made us, and what his character says about him.
00:49:24.822 --> 00:49:28.859
Today, i had an eye-opening conversation with hosanna wong
00:49:28.859 --> 00:49:31.729
And alena franklin about getting to know the maker, understanding
00:49:31.729 --> 00:49:36.500
His character, and living fully connected to who god created us
00:49:36.500 --> 00:49:41.305
To be.
00:49:41.305 --> 00:49:42.673
Here's a few of our takeaways: know your own soil.
00:49:42.673 --> 00:49:46.944
Hosanna shared a conversation with a vineyard owner in tuscany
00:49:46.944 --> 00:49:50.781
Named niccolo.
00:49:50.781 --> 00:49:52.550
What she discovered wasn't a formula, it was personal.
00:49:52.550 --> 00:49:56.354
You have to know your soil, niccolo said.
00:49:56.354 --> 00:49:59.957
So, what about your soil shapes where you are with god?
00:49:59.957 --> 00:50:04.595
We often try to copy someone else's faith or compare our
00:50:04.595 --> 00:50:08.566
Faith to one of our past seasons.
00:50:08.566 --> 00:50:11.836
Jesus says in john 15 that he is the vine and we are
00:50:11.836 --> 00:50:15.673
The branches.
00:50:15.673 --> 00:50:17.041
We stay connected by nurturing what god is doing right now, not
00:50:17.041 --> 00:50:21.412
What used to be and not what it looks like for someone else.
00:50:21.412 --> 00:50:25.850
So, ask yourself, "where am i right now with god?"
00:50:25.850 --> 00:50:29.654
Then invite god into that place and start there.
00:50:29.654 --> 00:50:33.924
Avoid the trap of perfectionism.
00:50:33.924 --> 00:50:36.761
Hosanna highlighted how easy it is to think our incomplete
00:50:36.761 --> 00:50:41.032
Knowledge of god can make us feel unworthy.
00:50:41.032 --> 00:50:44.435
She said what we see as a roadblock is often god's
00:50:44.435 --> 00:50:48.806
Shortcut to a relationship.
00:50:48.806 --> 00:50:51.275
Comparing ourselves to others will keep us feeling stuck.
00:50:51.275 --> 00:50:55.846
So, a few ways that you can build your own relationship with
00:50:55.846 --> 00:50:58.949
Him are releasing expectations that don't come from god.
00:50:58.949 --> 00:51:04.388
Worship the way that god wired you.
00:51:04.388 --> 00:51:08.426
Focus on connection, not performance and religious shows.
00:51:08.426 --> 00:51:14.265
A real relationship with god embraces the real you in your
00:51:14.265 --> 00:51:18.335
Current season.
00:51:18.335 --> 00:51:21.105
Wrestle with god.
00:51:21.105 --> 00:51:22.940
Alena shared that god is approachable, even in the
00:51:22.940 --> 00:51:26.744
Questions, even in the pain.
00:51:26.744 --> 00:51:29.046
Her journey was a wrestle, moving from knowing about god to
00:51:29.046 --> 00:51:33.851
Personally experiencing him.
00:51:33.851 --> 00:51:36.487
When we bring our grief and disappointment to god, we see
00:51:36.487 --> 00:51:39.623
That he never stops pursuing us.
00:51:39.623 --> 00:51:42.626
She said that in the wrestle, we develop grit and discovered that
00:51:42.626 --> 00:51:47.565
God is loving and holy, even mysterious.
00:51:47.565 --> 00:51:52.670
So, identify one struggle that you've been avoiding, bring it
00:51:52.670 --> 00:51:56.373
To god, and then ask him the hard questions.
00:51:56.373 --> 00:52:00.544
Get to know your maker.
00:52:00.544 --> 00:52:02.713
Along with knowing your soil, we need to know our maker.
00:52:02.713 --> 00:52:07.284
Alena said we don't just have an identity problem, we have a
00:52:07.284 --> 00:52:12.156
Maker problem.
00:52:12.156 --> 00:52:13.491
We don't fully understand who made us.
00:52:13.491 --> 00:52:17.328
A godless world says, "it's all about you.
00:52:17.328 --> 00:52:19.797
Achieve more, do more," but god loves us and gives us a quiet,
00:52:19.797 --> 00:52:25.436
Countercultural confidence.
00:52:25.436 --> 00:52:28.239
Knowing who god is, helps us understand who we are.
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:32.643
One simple way to do that, look up, focus on god's character,
00:52:32.643 --> 00:52:37.448
Then look around, notice people jesus would slow down and
00:52:37.448 --> 00:52:43.254
Care for.
00:52:43.254 --> 00:52:45.189
That's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:45.189 --> 00:52:47.224
Thank you for watching.
00:52:47.224 --> 00:52:48.559
Hey, don't forget to set your dvr so you never miss
00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:50.928
An episode.
00:52:50.928 --> 00:52:52.296
You can also catch up on tbn+ or the "kirk cameron on
00:52:52.296 --> 00:52:56.333
Tbn" youtube channel.
00:52:56.333 --> 00:52:58.469
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:52:58.469 --> 00:53:23.694

Hosanna Wong & Alena Franklin: Ways to Hear God's Voice | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron.

April 20, 2026 | 53:29

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