Jason Thacker & Betsy Childs Howard: Managing our Time Wisely in Cyberspace | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

July 6, 2026 | 53:25

Kirk Cameron is joined by Jason Thacker and Betsy Childs Howard on learning and teaching our families how to live a balanced life in our digital media obsessed world.

#Author #Culture #Timing #Choices #Lifestyle #Technology #SocialMedia #Idolatry #Relationships #SpiritualGrowth #KirkCameron

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Jason Thacker & Betsy Childs Howard: Managing our Time Wisely in Cyberspace | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | July 6, 2026

Did you know that the very
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First iphone was released in 2007?
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That's nearly 20 years that this little device has been a
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Part of our lives.
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It's a great tool for communication, entertainment,
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And accessing information quick and easy.
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But are you managing it, or is it managing you?
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Is it the first thing that you grab in the morning?
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Are you scrolling while eating your lunch?
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Clicking on it at the gym.
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Texting while driving.
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If you stop and think about how much time you're on your phone,
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Has it become the modern day idol of our lives?
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Well, our guests
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Jason thacker and betsy childs howard will address the
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Importance of finding that right balance between spending
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Time on our devices and
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Spending time with god and each other.
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We also see these tools,
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They are tools, aren't neutral.
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They are doing things.
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They're shaping us.
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They're forming our view of god, ourselves, and the
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World around us.
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I think it's good to talk about that with children, that some
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Things aren't bad in themselves, but can be
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Excessive, and it's very important to start teaching our
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Kids self control.
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It's all happening right now on takeaways.
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♪♪
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My first guest, jason thacker, serves as assistant professor
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Of philosophy and ethics at
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Boyce college and southern seminary.
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He's the author of several books, including the age of ai,
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Artificial intelligence and the future of humanity, and this
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One, following jesus in a digital age.
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Jason, thanks so much for coming on take aways.
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Yeah, thanks for having me.
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Well, this is a beautiful book cover, and it's just the size
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That i like because i know i can get through this.
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That was the goal. that was the plan.
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What inspired you to write this book for people?
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It was actually a book i was asked by my publisher to write,
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So i wrote my first book on ai well before it was cool, well
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Before people were talking about it, kind of engaging in
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Some-- it's kind of all the rage now.
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But one of the reasons i wrote that was i started to unpack
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This idea that technology is not neutral, that it's doing
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Something to us. specifically as christians,
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I would say it's discipling us.
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It's shaping the way we see god, the way we see ourselves
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And the world around us.
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And i was asked to say, can you unpack that?
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Not just in the ai conversation, but with
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Technology in general, and not just digital technologies, but
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All technology from the wheel to the tablet to the printing
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Press, all the way up into today to say these tools aren't
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Neutral. they're doing something to us.
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They're forming us. they're shaping us.
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We often think we're using technology, but i think the
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Truth is it's actually using us.
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It's shaping us.
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It's forming us in particular ways.
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And that was kind of the heartbeat behind the book.
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But to do so in a very approachable way, to have
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Somebody like my mother, who is brilliant in her own right,
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Is not trained in ethics and philosophy, but to slow down
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And say, what does it mean to follow jesus, admit all of
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These competing influences and values and ideas in the world?
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What does it mean to follow jesus in a digital age?
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And that was really the heartbeat behind the book.
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I think this is really important because i don't think
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Ai is going anywhere, and nobody really wants to like,
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Throw their iphone in the lake and never use chatgpt.
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Um, maybe we should, i don't know, but i'm kind of
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Thankful for technology.
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I'm glad that we actually don't ride horses anymore, that we
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Have automobiles, and i have airplanes and i can go places.
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Um, do you think that technology is inherently
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Good or bad?
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Is it just a tool or,
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I don't know, what's your what's your general thought
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About technology?
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That's the key question.
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Is it good
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Maybe with some bad uses, or is it essentially bad but could be
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Redeemed, redeemable uses?
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I think it's neither. it's not good nor is it bad, but it's
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Definitely not neutral.
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It is a tool.
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It's a tool that we use.
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We're responsible for how we use them,
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But these tools are also subtly shaping us and forming us in
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Ways that may be contrary to our faith, that may be contrary
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To our deeply held beliefs.
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And so that idea that these things aren't neutral, i think,
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Starts to unlock that concept of wisdom from scripture.
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We can't naively reject these tools, nor should we naively
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Embrace them either.
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And to say that we're just going to go back to yesteryear,
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Well, yesteryear had its own problems as well.
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Yeah. it wasn't--
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And even then you say, well, jesus didn't have x, y, and z.
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Well, there were technologies of the day.
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You even see paul saying, bring
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Me my scrolls, bring me these things.
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These were technologies of the day.
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They're nothing like our digital technologies per se,
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But they did something too. the written word, the scroll, the
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Tablet, the book itself,
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Even the printing press is one of the most revolutionary
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Pieces of technology. i don't want to go back to prior to
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That, but i also don't want to naively assume that it's just a
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Tool that doesn't really matter. okay.
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And so that idea of cultivating wisdom, i think, is
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So key for that idea of
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Following jesus in a digital age.
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Can you give us some examples, warning signs that technology
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Is actually using us?
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Yeah. the default question is, can we versus should we?
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It's interesting with technology is there's a new
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App, there's a new device, there's a new system, and we
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Just start using it almost by default, or we mindlessly kind
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Of pick up our phone.
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I remember years ago, just that idea of like, i think my
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Phone's going off right now.
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Like, i don't even have a phone on me right now, but kind of
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Feeling that little buzz on my leg and just this default,
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Well, i have to check it.
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Or as soon as i get up in the morning, i check my phone.
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Right before bed, i check my--
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Almost mindlessly kind of doing that.
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I think that's an early warning
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Sign to say something's amiss here.
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We're not critically engaging.
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We're not slowing down.
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We're just defaulting.
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Well, everyone's doing it,
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So i must, or i can do this, so i should.
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Those are two very different questions.
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Can i versus should i?
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Is this good for me?
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Okay. that's going to cause us to slow down amid the rapid
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Pace, the efficiency, the convenience, all the promised
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Benefits of technology and say,
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Well, is this actually good for me?
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Is this in line with how god's created me and made me?
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And is this actually good for me or not?
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Jason, what would you say to people who say, um, jason,
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You're thinking too hard about this.
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It's just my phone.
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I pick it up, i text people, i take pictures, right?
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Like, i'm on social media every once in a while. um, alarm us a
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Little bit about why this is really a serious thing.
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And, and give us an example of like, how this actually might
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Be shaping our view of god. yeah.
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What's interesting is the way that technology kind of shapes
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The way we see god, but the way we see ourselves and the world
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Around us, where we start to feel, well, i have this
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Powerful tool in my hands.
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Look at the limitless information, look at the
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Limitless power.
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Look at what technology-- you know, yesterday, long, long
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Time ago, they weren't able to do x, y, and z.
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Well, we can now. we start to kind of tempt ourselves to feel
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Like we're autonomous, we're
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Self-governing, that we're in charge.
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It's me, myself and i, and that's a prevalent message
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Throughout culture.
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But it's interesting is we're not actually created to be
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Completely autonomous, to be completely free in the kind of
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Contemporary sense is that we have limits.
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We are not all knowing.
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We are not all powerful.
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We're not like god.
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He is god.
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We are not.
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He is our creator.
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We are his creature.
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And that question of saying slowing down is to say, look,
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The scripture is really clear.
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Paul's really clear in romans 12:2 that we're not to be
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Conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of
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Our minds so that we can discern that essence of wisdom.
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And pursuing slowing down is replete throughout scripture,
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Proverbs and psalms, and even new testament literature like
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James, james 1:19, to be slow to speak, to be slow to anger,
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Quick to listen.
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Why? verse 20, the anger of man does not produce the
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Righteousness of god.
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Scripture reorients us.
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Yes, we go to church.
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We're formed by that,
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But that little device, it never leaves our side.
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From the moment we wake up to the moment we go to bed 24
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Hours a day, 365 days a year,
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It's there.
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You know, one of the things technology does that alarms me
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Is it's not just taking away people's jobs, but it's
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Shrinking what we think of human beings, that we're just
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Really lame versions of ai computers.
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We do everything poorly compared to grok or chatgpt,
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But i think that's very wrong.
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I think that's very evil, and i think that is not true.
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I think we're the image of god on the earth, and siri is not.
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Yeah, there's a fundamental difference,
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Kirk, you pick up on is we are human beings.
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We're image bearers of the almighty god, not we are
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Someone versus some thing.
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We're not just a thing.
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We're not just a material thing.
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We are more than that.
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God has created us.
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He set us apart.
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As one famous philosopher said, god doesn't love us because
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We're so valuable.
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We're so valuable because god loves us.
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Our worth, our dignity, our value isn't rooted in the
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Things we do or even how fast we do them.
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It's rooted in who we are.
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And the interesting thing about technology, and this is all
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Technology, from ai to the smartphone to the printing
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Press, it's always about speed, convenience, and efficiency,
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Which are not bad things in and of themselves, but they're
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Really bad gods.
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Really--
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Amen. i was just-- that was the thought in my mind was,
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But there are good things,
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But if you make them ultimate things,
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Then they will kill you.
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They're not the goal in life.
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There's something bigger and grander.
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So it's not just how fast do i get to the answer, but what
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Type of person am i?
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How am i being shaped and formed and virtue being
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Cultivated over the long term?
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In light of this effort that we have to try to humanize
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Artificial intelligence and make it more and more realistic
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Sounding and the way that it learns about us and can counsel
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Us and encourage us,
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And in light of the dehumanizing of people, right?
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We're, we're just like, you know, we don't even know what
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A man is anymore.
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We don't even know what a woman is anymore.
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We say like, men can be women and women can be men.
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We don't even know what a baby in the womb is anymore.
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Really, the question as we talked earlier is what is it
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Even mean to be human?
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Yeah. that's the--
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So in light of that, is it important that we increase the
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Amount of time we spend in community with actual people
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And not just our chat bot?
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Oh, without a doubt. that great dehumanizing, that malformed,
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That deforming effect of technology in general, we
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Especially see prevalent with ai, where it's always about it
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Shaping us, it's forming us, it's shaping how we view
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Ourselves, but also how we see others around us.
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The greatest relationships.
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Our best friend in life.
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It isn't always about what i get out of it.
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You go to, you go to these ai systems.
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You ask it maybe deeply personal questions to solve a
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Problem you have to take--
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But the best relationships are other-oriented.
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The whole sum of the christian life is to love another,
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This love of another.
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Think of matthew 22, to love god
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And to love our neighbor as ourself.
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It's not about me, myself, and i, the great lies of
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Our culture today.
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It's actually about love of another, love of god
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Ultimately, but also love of another.
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And relationships are messy.
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They're time consuming.
00:11:26.575 --> 00:11:27.676
They're not always convenient.
00:11:27.676 --> 00:11:29.145
And you don't always walk away feeling full.
00:11:29.145 --> 00:11:32.047
Sometimes you feel very empty
00:11:32.047 --> 00:11:33.415
Because you've given so much to another.
00:11:33.415 --> 00:11:35.918
That's the beauty of marriage.
00:11:35.918 --> 00:11:36.952
That's the beauty of friendships.
00:11:36.952 --> 00:11:38.220
And we need to recover that, especially in this great kind
00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:41.323
Of age of ai, this dehumanizing where it's just
00:11:41.323 --> 00:11:44.059
About what i get rather than what i'm giving to others.
00:11:44.059 --> 00:11:48.063
Oh man, we got we got to talk more about this, but we're
00:11:48.063 --> 00:11:51.066
Going to go to a break.
00:11:51.066 --> 00:11:52.334
And when we come back, we're going to talk more with jason
00:11:52.334 --> 00:11:54.136
About the best ways to be salt and light in this digital age.
00:11:54.136 --> 00:11:58.507
And then later in the program, betsy childs howard will share
00:11:58.507 --> 00:12:01.911
Her steps for parents guiding their children's time
00:12:01.911 --> 00:12:05.014
On their tech devices.
00:12:05.014 --> 00:12:06.916
So don't go away.
00:12:06.916 --> 00:12:08.117
If we don't exercise self control in our screen time,
00:12:08.117 --> 00:12:11.020
We'll have all kinds of negative effects just like we
00:12:11.020 --> 00:12:14.256
Would if we don't exercise self control in the way we eat and
00:12:14.256 --> 00:12:17.026
Drink and, you know, all the other things we do.
00:12:17.026 --> 00:12:25.008
Drink and, you know, all the other things we do.
00:12:25.008 --> 00:12:29.406
We're back with jason thacker discussing his insights and
00:12:33.009 --> 00:12:36.413
Hope for the church in his latest book,
00:12:36.413 --> 00:12:39.282
Following jesus in a digital age.
00:12:39.282 --> 00:12:41.751
You know, a lot of christians are depressed about ai.
00:12:41.751 --> 00:12:44.187
They're really discouraged thinking, oh, this is it.
00:12:44.187 --> 00:12:46.556
This is the, this is the,
00:12:46.556 --> 00:12:47.691
The mark of the beast, the antichrist.
00:12:47.691 --> 00:12:49.226
This is the end times.
00:12:49.226 --> 00:12:50.327
Ai is the the final nail in the
00:12:50.327 --> 00:12:53.430
Coffin for the future of our children.
00:12:53.430 --> 00:12:58.335
What do you say to give christians hope today, or do
00:12:58.335 --> 00:13:01.004
You not think there is any?
00:13:01.004 --> 00:13:02.672
Oh, there's definitely hope,
00:13:02.672 --> 00:13:03.540
And his name is jesus.
00:13:03.540 --> 00:13:04.908
Jesus is alive.
00:13:04.908 --> 00:13:06.543
That's the whole point of scripture.
00:13:06.543 --> 00:13:08.545
I love when you think of
00:13:08.545 --> 00:13:09.713
Something like the book of revelation.
00:13:09.713 --> 00:13:11.615
The book of revelation isn't written so that we can get our
00:13:11.615 --> 00:13:14.184
Felt boards out, as great as that could be,
00:13:14.184 --> 00:13:16.186
To try to map out the end times
00:13:16.186 --> 00:13:17.654
And when is jesus coming back.
00:13:17.654 --> 00:13:19.189
Let's not-- we don't know that.
00:13:19.189 --> 00:13:20.657
We don't know the time.
00:13:20.657 --> 00:13:21.491
We don't know the day, the hour.
00:13:21.491 --> 00:13:23.360
But what's interesting is that literature, that whole point of
00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:26.496
Even revelation, is to remind us of the hope that we have
00:13:26.496 --> 00:13:29.799
Amidst the brokenness, amidst the the sin, amidst the
00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:32.636
Brokenness of our world around us to give us hope.
00:13:32.636 --> 00:13:35.205
So yes, we have hope.
00:13:35.205 --> 00:13:36.806
And the interesting thing is whether you uncritically
00:13:36.806 --> 00:13:39.476
Embrace technology or you kind of reject it outright, there's
00:13:39.476 --> 00:13:43.680
Often this fear, fear of the
00:13:43.680 --> 00:13:45.482
Unknown, fear of things changing.
00:13:45.482 --> 00:13:47.284
Everything's changing around me.
00:13:47.284 --> 00:13:49.019
You hear this across the political spectrum, across
00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:52.289
Families, across industries.
00:13:52.289 --> 00:13:54.224
Everything's changing and we're not prepared.
00:13:54.224 --> 00:13:56.226
We're not ready.
00:13:56.226 --> 00:13:57.761
Well, the good news as christians is that we are
00:13:57.761 --> 00:13:59.696
A people of hope.
00:13:59.696 --> 00:14:01.164
Our hope is in jesus christ the lord.
00:14:01.164 --> 00:14:03.366
He's sitting at the right hand of god.
00:14:03.366 --> 00:14:04.868
He's praying for us.
00:14:04.868 --> 00:14:06.336
He's interceding for us.
00:14:06.336 --> 00:14:08.071
And that's where our hope is.
00:14:08.071 --> 00:14:09.372
And he's given us everything we need.
00:14:09.372 --> 00:14:11.741
And this is the hope for parents.
00:14:11.741 --> 00:14:13.109
Even amid the challenges we face, he's given us everything
00:14:13.109 --> 00:14:16.279
We need for a life of godliness in scripture.
00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.016
Yeah, knowing that all scripture is god breathed is
00:14:20.016 --> 00:14:22.652
Useful for teaching, rebuke, for correcting and training in
00:14:22.652 --> 00:14:25.388
Righteousness so that we may be complete.
00:14:25.388 --> 00:14:27.924
That ought to give us hope, and we should be the most hopeful
00:14:27.924 --> 00:14:30.894
People around, because jesus is alive and he calls us to this
00:14:30.894 --> 00:14:35.298
Time and this place, and he's given us everything we need to
00:14:35.298 --> 00:14:38.401
Critically engage the technologies, but also the
00:14:38.401 --> 00:14:41.104
Political and social challenges
00:14:41.104 --> 00:14:42.539
Of the day from that place of hope.
00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:44.641
Can i put my finger on that for a second and just say, i love
00:14:44.641 --> 00:14:48.011
Everything that you just said and those scripture verses, you
00:14:48.011 --> 00:14:50.580
Know, they're part of my
00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:51.481
Morning devotional readings. they're
00:14:51.481 --> 00:14:53.850
Um, you know, uh, thoughts that just sort of lift my spirits
00:14:53.850 --> 00:14:57.220
And remind me that i'm a person of hope, in a family of hope.
00:14:57.220 --> 00:15:00.724
But what does jesus have to do with chatgpt?
00:15:00.724 --> 00:15:03.693
Yeah. like, like, what do you think jesus and god think about
00:15:03.693 --> 00:15:07.797
Grok and ai and robots and all of this stuff?
00:15:07.797 --> 00:15:12.535
Like, do they really intersect?
00:15:12.535 --> 00:15:14.871
It's interesting. if we truly believe as christians in the
00:15:14.871 --> 00:15:17.741
Sovereignty of god, the power of god, he's not surprised
00:15:17.741 --> 00:15:20.877
By these things.
00:15:20.877 --> 00:15:22.112
Not only did he know these things would happen, but again,
00:15:22.112 --> 00:15:24.914
He's given his church all they need to navigate it.
00:15:24.914 --> 00:15:27.650
He could have-- we can't--
00:15:27.650 --> 00:15:28.918
We can't go to our concordance or for most of us, our bible
00:15:28.918 --> 00:15:31.287
App these days and search ai and find paul elucidating all
00:15:31.287 --> 00:15:35.025
These principles about artificial intelligence,
00:15:35.025 --> 00:15:37.293
But we can find principles of godliness.
00:15:37.293 --> 00:15:39.829
And how do we pursue wisdom?
00:15:39.829 --> 00:15:41.931
Even james 1:19 and 20 that we talked about earlier,
00:15:41.931 --> 00:15:44.567
Do not be quick to speak.
00:15:44.567 --> 00:15:46.669
It's funny because it almost feels like it was written for a
00:15:46.669 --> 00:15:48.671
Social media age.
00:15:48.671 --> 00:15:50.140
It's that same principle, that time-tested principle of wisdom
00:15:50.140 --> 00:15:53.943
For us to slow down and to trust god because he is god
00:15:53.943 --> 00:15:57.747
And we are not.
00:15:57.747 --> 00:15:58.982
One of the cool things that gives me hope is to read the
00:15:58.982 --> 00:16:02.352
Scriptures that tell the stories of how god will use an
00:16:02.352 --> 00:16:06.890
Enemy's own sword for him to fall on.
00:16:06.890 --> 00:16:10.693
Technology has gone so far,
00:16:10.693 --> 00:16:12.629
It overplays its hand.
00:16:12.629 --> 00:16:14.164
It's so far over its skis that
00:16:14.164 --> 00:16:16.266
Everyone now says, you know what?
00:16:16.266 --> 00:16:18.435
Unless you can be real and authentic, face to face analog
00:16:18.435 --> 00:16:22.505
Right now, we're not even going to have a conversation.
00:16:22.505 --> 00:16:25.909
And then i was like, oh, oops, you know?
00:16:25.909 --> 00:16:28.678
Well, it's--
00:16:28.678 --> 00:16:29.512
Fascinating, and god can use that.
00:16:29.512 --> 00:16:30.280
Yeah. in god's sovereign plan,
00:16:30.280 --> 00:16:31.281
He often uses, he does redeem technologies.
00:16:31.281 --> 00:16:33.817
Even some of the great evil technologies have been redeemed
00:16:33.817 --> 00:16:36.653
For good and gospel.
00:16:36.653 --> 00:16:37.821
Think of the cross.
00:16:37.821 --> 00:16:38.655
Yeah. think of the cross.
00:16:38.655 --> 00:16:39.656
Think of even being able--
00:16:39.656 --> 00:16:40.824
The roman roads,
00:16:40.824 --> 00:16:41.758
Being able to take the gospel forward.
00:16:41.758 --> 00:16:43.626
Think of the printing press and what it did for access to the
00:16:43.626 --> 00:16:46.362
Gospel, access to scripture in our own language.
00:16:46.362 --> 00:16:49.632
But we also see these tools,
00:16:49.632 --> 00:16:51.301
They are tools, aren't neutral.
00:16:51.301 --> 00:16:53.736
They are doing things. they're shaping us.
00:16:53.736 --> 00:16:55.772
They're forming our view of god, ourselves, and the world
00:16:55.772 --> 00:16:58.141
Around us in ways that we may not always be able to discern,
00:16:58.141 --> 00:17:01.878
But we can trust that god is good, that he is sovereign,
00:17:01.878 --> 00:17:04.347
That he's in control of all things,
00:17:04.347 --> 00:17:06.249
Lean on that, and then press into the questions of the day
00:17:06.249 --> 00:17:09.352
From that place of hope.
00:17:09.352 --> 00:17:10.753
I love that.
00:17:10.753 --> 00:17:11.988
So if i can pull my phone out and go, okay, here it is.
00:17:11.988 --> 00:17:14.858
This is a powerful weapon.
00:17:14.858 --> 00:17:17.460
This is a piece of technology and a tool that's either going
00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:20.430
To, um, build me and my family up or tear us down.
00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:24.367
It's going to be used for good right now.
00:17:24.367 --> 00:17:26.102
And when i go into my, my social media account, or for
00:17:26.102 --> 00:17:29.105
Evil and be intentional. then i think we've, we've got some
00:17:29.105 --> 00:17:33.109
Hope there with that technology.
00:17:33.109 --> 00:17:34.544
Yeah, it's all about that cultivating of wisdom and
00:17:34.544 --> 00:17:36.813
Cultivating virtue
00:17:36.813 --> 00:17:38.047
Because look, i could, if i could write a book that was
00:17:38.047 --> 00:17:40.183
Five ways to right your
00:17:40.183 --> 00:17:41.351
Relationship with technology, right
00:17:41.351 --> 00:17:43.286
Your relationship use ai better for the glory of god,
00:17:43.286 --> 00:17:46.022
Look, we maybe could sell a few
00:17:46.022 --> 00:17:47.190
More books, but that isn't the idea,
00:17:47.190 --> 00:17:49.659
Just having a set of rules and kind of what do i do and what
00:17:49.659 --> 00:17:52.395
Do i don't do?
00:17:52.395 --> 00:17:53.663
It's more about cultivating wisdom and virtue to recognize,
00:17:53.663 --> 00:17:57.133
You know, you may have a different plan with your phone,
00:17:57.133 --> 00:17:59.869
With devices, maybe in your own family than i do basically,
00:17:59.869 --> 00:18:03.139
Maybe because i know myself better, i know my proclivities.
00:18:03.139 --> 00:18:06.075
I know the things i'm tempted to, where years ago i stepped
00:18:06.075 --> 00:18:09.245
Back from social media.
00:18:09.245 --> 00:18:10.513
Not because it's inherently evil or bad, but i didn't like
00:18:10.513 --> 00:18:13.716
The man i was becoming,
00:18:13.716 --> 00:18:15.451
The way that i was thinking, the way that i was mistrusting,
00:18:15.451 --> 00:18:17.987
The way that i was always wondering what's happening?
00:18:17.987 --> 00:18:19.956
What am i missing?
00:18:19.956 --> 00:18:21.357
Again, that slowing down to cultivate wisdom.
00:18:21.357 --> 00:18:24.861
It's not that i don't engage it at all, but i don't engage it
00:18:24.861 --> 00:18:27.497
Nearly like i used to, because it was about that heart posture
00:18:27.497 --> 00:18:30.266
And about the man that god has created me to be.
00:18:30.266 --> 00:18:33.236
And i didn't like who i was becoming.
00:18:33.236 --> 00:18:34.904
And i think we're starting to, especially in our age, not only
00:18:34.904 --> 00:18:38.174
With social media, but even with ai, wake up to the limits
00:18:38.174 --> 00:18:41.277
Of these tools that were promised to be limitless, to
00:18:41.277 --> 00:18:44.814
See the limits, to see the extent of i don't like
00:18:44.814 --> 00:18:47.083
The people i'm,
00:18:47.083 --> 00:18:48.117
I don't like the person i'm becoming.
00:18:48.117 --> 00:18:49.986
I don't like the way this is shaping my view of my wife or
00:18:49.986 --> 00:18:53.489
My kids or my neighbors or those in my congregation.
00:18:53.489 --> 00:18:57.560
Something's amiss here.
00:18:57.560 --> 00:18:58.861
So let me slow down and to ask that not just can i, but should
00:18:58.861 --> 00:19:02.765
I question which really the question of wisdom
00:19:02.765 --> 00:19:04.500
In the christian life.
00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:06.436
Jason, what are some practical things that you do in your
00:19:06.436 --> 00:19:10.073
Family to help your kids have a
00:19:10.073 --> 00:19:13.142
Healthy relationship with technology?
00:19:13.142 --> 00:19:15.144
Yeah, this is the key question.
00:19:15.144 --> 00:19:16.479
I wish i had a perfect answer, but i'll give you some things.
00:19:16.479 --> 00:19:19.449
We try to slow down.
00:19:19.449 --> 00:19:21.150
If the goal of technology is always efficiency, speed, more,
00:19:21.150 --> 00:19:25.054
Better, faster, stronger,
00:19:25.054 --> 00:19:26.589
That simple--
00:19:26.589 --> 00:19:27.490
What sounds really trite.
00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:28.891
It seems like a mere platitude to slow down, is to maybe
00:19:28.891 --> 00:19:32.729
Not have our devices on us at all times.
00:19:32.729 --> 00:19:35.265
You know, i used to wear an apple watch.
00:19:35.265 --> 00:19:37.100
I stopped wearing it.
00:19:37.100 --> 00:19:38.167
Not because the apple watch is bad.
00:19:38.167 --> 00:19:39.802
I still long for the running and track kind of tracking
00:19:39.802 --> 00:19:42.805
Those things, but i don't need to be constantly connected.
00:19:42.805 --> 00:19:46.509
So even with my boys, to say too much of a good thing
00:19:46.509 --> 00:19:48.911
Is a bad thing--
00:19:48.911 --> 00:19:49.912
I always heard that aphorism growing up.
00:19:49.912 --> 00:19:52.048
You know, that's true with their switch.
00:19:52.048 --> 00:19:53.516
That's true with daddy's phone.
00:19:53.516 --> 00:19:55.118
That's true with a lot of things in our life
00:19:55.118 --> 00:19:57.553
Is all things in moderation,
00:19:57.553 --> 00:19:59.889
To slow down, to consider those things.
00:19:59.889 --> 00:20:01.924
So slowing down, i think is very countercultural, but it's
00:20:01.924 --> 00:20:05.762
Also very kind of anti-technology in some sense,
00:20:05.762 --> 00:20:09.365
Which is built on speed to slow down, to maybe do things the
00:20:09.365 --> 00:20:12.669
Old way, not because it was better per se, but maybe it
00:20:12.669 --> 00:20:15.738
Wasn't just the destination we reach or the answer we get, but
00:20:15.738 --> 00:20:18.941
It was actually about the process of getting there.
00:20:18.941 --> 00:20:21.511
Instead of rushing to google to get the answer,
00:20:21.511 --> 00:20:24.480
Maybe we have a little bit of a debate over dinner with my boys
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.950
Over this, and we go back and forth building that
00:20:27.950 --> 00:20:30.153
Relationality to go slow and to seek about that virtue
00:20:30.153 --> 00:20:34.757
And wisdom formation
00:20:34.757 --> 00:20:36.292
That's so key to the christian life.
00:20:36.292 --> 00:20:38.294
Jason, i love on the back description of your book.
00:20:38.294 --> 00:20:41.064
You talk here about
00:20:41.064 --> 00:20:43.599
Helping with the, uh, the proliferation of misinformation
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:49.706
On the internet and polarization of groups of
00:20:49.706 --> 00:20:52.809
People, you know, vaccinated versus unvaccinated or, um,
00:20:52.809 --> 00:20:57.080
Democrat and republican or conspiracy theories that we
00:20:57.080 --> 00:21:01.918
Believe because we're seeing so much of it online.
00:21:01.918 --> 00:21:05.922
Um, how do we protect ourselves from that kind of stuff?
00:21:05.922 --> 00:21:09.792
Well, i think first and foremost, we recognize none of
00:21:09.792 --> 00:21:11.661
The challenges we face today,
00:21:11.661 --> 00:21:13.463
Even the questions we're asking today are all that new.
00:21:13.463 --> 00:21:16.499
They seem novel, they seem new.
00:21:16.499 --> 00:21:18.634
But these are the same age old questions we've always asked
00:21:18.634 --> 00:21:21.471
But in light of new opportunities, especially with
00:21:21.471 --> 00:21:24.474
Something like social media. you know, misinformation, what
00:21:24.474 --> 00:21:27.410
We used to call propaganda isn't new at all.
00:21:27.410 --> 00:21:30.213
It's actually been used throughout human history for
00:21:30.213 --> 00:21:32.915
Good and often nefarious ends.
00:21:32.915 --> 00:21:35.418
But we have this new level of being able to spread it
00:21:35.418 --> 00:21:38.154
With social media. we can share it.
00:21:38.154 --> 00:21:39.689
Whether you have tens of thousands of followers or tens
00:21:39.689 --> 00:21:42.492
Of followers, you have a device where you can spout off your
00:21:42.492 --> 00:21:45.862
Opinion, often just a mere uninformed opinion on a
00:21:45.862 --> 00:21:48.965
Plethora of things.
00:21:48.965 --> 00:21:50.466
I have a friend that says the internet doesn't deserve your
00:21:50.466 --> 00:21:52.568
Opinion on everything.
00:21:52.568 --> 00:21:53.870
I'm not an expert.
00:21:53.870 --> 00:21:55.138
I don't fully understand, but we're tempted to have that.
00:21:55.138 --> 00:21:57.306
We're tempted to see ourselves like that. again,
00:21:57.306 --> 00:22:00.543
We can share it,
00:22:00.543 --> 00:22:01.577
But now with ai, it all can be shared at scale.
00:22:01.577 --> 00:22:05.181
It can also be created at scale, and i think that's a
00:22:05.181 --> 00:22:09.185
Really dangerous mix for truth in a digital age.
00:22:09.185 --> 00:22:12.889
Um, in your last chapter, pursuing identity in a
00:22:12.889 --> 00:22:16.993
Polarized age, you write about
00:22:16.993 --> 00:22:18.628
Being uncomfortable with this one.
00:22:18.628 --> 00:22:20.196
Can you explain that?
00:22:20.196 --> 00:22:21.464
Yeah. we don't often want to admit our own limits and maybe
00:22:21.464 --> 00:22:24.634
Our own proclivities.
00:22:24.634 --> 00:22:25.868
And i remember years ago, i was uh, we have a deal in my
00:22:25.868 --> 00:22:29.572
Household with my wife.
00:22:29.572 --> 00:22:30.440
She's a really good cook and baker.
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:32.375
I can clean the dishes.
00:22:32.375 --> 00:22:33.476
And that's kind of our deal.
00:22:33.476 --> 00:22:34.877
And i remember i was supposed to be washing the dishes
00:22:34.877 --> 00:22:37.680
And i didn't do it.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:39.148
I was on my phone, like many of us, and i saw something and i
00:22:39.148 --> 00:22:42.585
Immediately reacted.
00:22:42.585 --> 00:22:43.786
I saw a headline, i reacted, i
00:22:43.786 --> 00:22:45.588
Said, hey, dori, have you seen this?
00:22:45.588 --> 00:22:47.790
And she's like, no, i haven't seen this.
00:22:47.790 --> 00:22:49.292
Well, lo and behold, she's actually on facetime with her
00:22:49.292 --> 00:22:51.694
Mom and dad in a different state.
00:22:51.694 --> 00:22:53.863
And so she shares, well, jason, just read this online.
00:22:53.863 --> 00:22:57.233
Well, about ten minutes later, i again, i was supposed to be
00:22:57.233 --> 00:22:59.235
Doing the dishes, but i was looking at my phone once again
00:22:59.235 --> 00:23:02.805
And i found out i was misled.
00:23:02.805 --> 00:23:05.241
I found out that was a false story.
00:23:05.241 --> 00:23:07.543
It seemed reputable, it seemed, from a major news source.
00:23:07.543 --> 00:23:10.279
But again, it wasn't neutral.
00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:11.647
It was biased toward a particular worldview.
00:23:11.647 --> 00:23:14.550
And not only did i spread misinformation to my wife, but
00:23:14.550 --> 00:23:18.087
It was an interstate conspiracy theorist.
00:23:18.087 --> 00:23:19.922
I was sharing that across states, thinking of something
00:23:19.922 --> 00:23:23.025
Like facetime.
00:23:23.025 --> 00:23:24.260
And it was interesting that
00:23:24.260 --> 00:23:25.294
Moment i had this like, wake up call.
00:23:25.294 --> 00:23:27.763
You know, it's easy to see these things online.
00:23:27.763 --> 00:23:30.399
I grew up in an age and you probably did too, especially
00:23:30.399 --> 00:23:32.835
With college and things.
00:23:32.835 --> 00:23:34.136
Well, just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true.
00:23:34.136 --> 00:23:37.006
Or just because it's on facebook doesn't make it true.
00:23:37.006 --> 00:23:39.575
Well, just because i said it doesn't make it true either.
00:23:39.575 --> 00:23:43.145
That idea of slowing down to discern, that romans 12:2
00:23:43.145 --> 00:23:46.949
Discernment is going to cause us to slow down
00:23:46.949 --> 00:23:50.219
Because just because you can see it, just because you can
00:23:50.219 --> 00:23:52.955
Read it, just because you can watch a video or audio doesn't
00:23:52.955 --> 00:23:55.424
Make it true
00:23:55.424 --> 00:23:56.559
Which again, is counterintuitive.
00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:58.194
Maybe that calls us to greater discernment, especially in an
00:23:58.194 --> 00:24:01.631
Age of misinformation, disinformation, conspiracy
00:24:01.631 --> 00:24:04.500
Theories, fake news is to know that nothing and no one is
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:07.637
Actually neutral.
00:24:07.637 --> 00:24:08.905
And so when you say stuff like, we've got to use discernment
00:24:08.905 --> 00:24:12.074
Because not everything chatgpt
00:24:12.074 --> 00:24:13.709
Or grok or whatever says is true,
00:24:13.709 --> 00:24:16.078
Well, the only way we can have discernment is not to ask the
00:24:16.078 --> 00:24:19.448
Internet if the internet is true.
00:24:19.448 --> 00:24:21.117
We've got to have something outside the internet that is
00:24:21.117 --> 00:24:23.519
Always true, that tells us whether this other thing
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.390
Is true or not.
00:24:27.390 --> 00:24:28.457
And that's got to be what?
00:24:28.457 --> 00:24:30.526
Ultimately the lord jesus christ.
00:24:30.526 --> 00:24:32.061
That's right.
00:24:32.061 --> 00:24:32.828
His scripture and his word.
00:24:32.828 --> 00:24:33.896
In that relational community where your best
00:24:33.896 --> 00:24:36.832
Friend doesn't always tell you what you want to hear, but
00:24:36.832 --> 00:24:39.936
Maybe they confront you and they push you and challenge you
00:24:39.936 --> 00:24:43.139
To say, brother, i love you, but you're wrong.
00:24:43.139 --> 00:24:45.675
Yeah.
00:24:45.675 --> 00:24:46.275
Or you misstepped here.
00:24:46.275 --> 00:24:47.777
That's right.
00:24:47.777 --> 00:24:48.477
To have that relationality.
00:24:48.477 --> 00:24:49.712
Again, going back to the whole sum of the christian life,
00:24:49.712 --> 00:24:52.048
Jesus says in matthew 22, to love god and to love our
00:24:52.048 --> 00:24:55.751
Neighbor as ourself,
00:24:55.751 --> 00:24:56.786
That's the whole sum of the christian life.
00:24:56.786 --> 00:24:58.854
And that's our approach to social and political issues of
00:24:58.854 --> 00:25:01.490
The day, but also to social media, to ai.
00:25:01.490 --> 00:25:04.160
It's slowing down, seeking to love god and to love our
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:07.163
Neighbor before,
00:25:07.163 --> 00:25:08.497
Before anything,
00:25:08.497 --> 00:25:09.799
To do that, cultivate that type of wisdom
00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:11.801
Because jesus isn't interested in just the things we do.
00:25:11.801 --> 00:25:15.004
It's about the heart and the intention behind it, the type
00:25:15.004 --> 00:25:18.274
Of character that's being formed in us as we're being
00:25:18.274 --> 00:25:21.377
Transformed into the image of christ.
00:25:21.377 --> 00:25:24.180
Jason, i'm so excited to to read the whole book and to give
00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:27.717
It to my friends and especially parents of children, so that
00:25:27.717 --> 00:25:31.287
They can walk with jesus in this digital age.
00:25:31.287 --> 00:25:33.122
Thanks for coming on the show. thanks for having me.
00:25:33.122 --> 00:25:35.257
After the break, betsy childs howard will join us with tools
00:25:35.257 --> 00:25:38.928
For parents to teach their children guidelines in our
00:25:38.928 --> 00:25:41.764
Digital culture.
00:25:41.764 --> 00:25:42.665
Stay with us.
00:25:42.665 --> 00:25:49.006
Stay with us.
00:25:49.006 --> 00:25:53.276
My next guest, betsy childs howard, is an editor for the
00:25:56.847 --> 00:26:00.751
Gospel coalition.
00:26:00.751 --> 00:26:01.852
She's authored several children's books over the
00:26:01.852 --> 00:26:03.787
Years, including this one called polly and the
00:26:03.787 --> 00:26:07.791
Screen time overload.
00:26:07.791 --> 00:26:09.793
Betsy, thanks so much for coming on takeaways.
00:26:09.793 --> 00:26:11.595
Thank you.
00:26:11.595 --> 00:26:12.195
It's a joy to be here.
00:26:12.195 --> 00:26:13.096
Well, i love your book.
00:26:13.096 --> 00:26:14.564
I just read it again and i have a little granddaughter, and i'm
00:26:14.564 --> 00:26:17.734
Already so excited to read this to her.
00:26:17.734 --> 00:26:21.104
And you know what else? in this book you talk about a little
00:26:21.104 --> 00:26:25.242
Girl who goes to spend time with her grammy and her grampy
00:26:25.242 --> 00:26:29.980
In the summertime at their farm with 23 chickens and three pigs
00:26:29.980 --> 00:26:34.484
And a cow and a horse
00:26:34.484 --> 00:26:35.752
Named mustard, gathering blueberries.
00:26:35.752 --> 00:26:37.621
And it's inspiring me to get my little farm together for when
00:26:37.621 --> 00:26:43.026
My grandkids come over.
00:26:43.026 --> 00:26:44.127
You definitely should do it.
00:26:44.127 --> 00:26:45.629
You will have such a great time with them, and they will
00:26:45.629 --> 00:26:47.664
Remember it for the rest of their lives.
00:26:47.664 --> 00:26:49.466
I think so too.
00:26:49.466 --> 00:26:51.034
And you know, not everybody has the opportunity to have a farm
00:26:51.034 --> 00:26:56.006
Playground for their kids, but everyone does understand the
00:26:56.006 --> 00:26:59.443
Danger of what happens to polly in this story, and that is--
00:26:59.443 --> 00:27:03.880
Well, tell everybody what happens to her.
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:05.615
Well, she looks forward to going to her grandparents farm,
00:27:05.615 --> 00:27:07.684
And she's looking forward to doing all the things she
00:27:07.684 --> 00:27:09.319
Loves to do there,
00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:10.620
But then when she gets there, she gets as a birthday present,
00:27:10.620 --> 00:27:12.723
A tablet, and she's thrilled.
00:27:12.723 --> 00:27:14.458
She starts to play games on it.
00:27:14.458 --> 00:27:15.726
She starts to watch videos.
00:27:15.726 --> 00:27:17.360
Meanwhile, she's not doing any of the things she loves to do
00:27:17.360 --> 00:27:20.097
On the farm.
00:27:20.097 --> 00:27:21.364
You know, she's playing a game where you throw tomatoes at
00:27:21.364 --> 00:27:23.967
Cats instead of feeding the horse with her grandfather, or,
00:27:23.967 --> 00:27:27.437
You know, she's not living real
00:27:27.437 --> 00:27:28.972
Life, she's just doing things virtually.
00:27:28.972 --> 00:27:31.641
And at some point the
00:27:31.641 --> 00:27:33.977
Tablet dies and has to be charged.
00:27:33.977 --> 00:27:35.545
And at that point, her grandfather talks to her and
00:27:35.545 --> 00:27:38.014
Helps her realize that technology is not a bad thing.
00:27:38.014 --> 00:27:40.717
Screens aren't a bad thing, but they have to be kept within
00:27:40.717 --> 00:27:43.487
Limits, or they keep us from enjoying all the wonderful
00:27:43.487 --> 00:27:46.757
Things that god has given us to enjoy.
00:27:46.757 --> 00:27:49.559
Man, this is such a timely message not only for children,
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:54.030
But for us as parents.
00:27:54.030 --> 00:27:55.565
How often do we spend 4 or 5, 6, maybe more hours every
00:27:55.565 --> 00:27:59.703
Single day on our phone, checking email, scrolling
00:27:59.703 --> 00:28:02.606
Through social media, whatever it is.
00:28:02.606 --> 00:28:06.009
And i'm so glad that you wrote this book to inspire parents
00:28:06.009 --> 00:28:10.847
And grandparents to make the most of the opportunity to get
00:28:10.847 --> 00:28:13.717
Their kids outside in nature with god, together with their
00:28:13.717 --> 00:28:16.720
Cousins, and play and experience the world that god
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.890
Made rather than a virtual world that some computer
00:28:19.890 --> 00:28:23.326
Programmer made.
00:28:23.326 --> 00:28:24.561
Mhm. and one thing that i want to help people see is that
00:28:24.561 --> 00:28:29.166
Screens aren't bad.
00:28:29.166 --> 00:28:30.634
I mean, there's a lot of bad things that can happen on
00:28:30.634 --> 00:28:32.269
Screens, but screens aren't the enemy.
00:28:32.269 --> 00:28:34.171
But they keep us from all the other wonderful things god has
00:28:34.171 --> 00:28:37.274
Given us to enjoy.
00:28:37.274 --> 00:28:38.475
And one thing that paulie's grandfather says to her is
00:28:38.475 --> 00:28:40.644
They're giving the horse a lump of sugar.
00:28:40.644 --> 00:28:42.646
And he says, you know what?
00:28:42.646 --> 00:28:43.914
Sugar is not bad, but if you only ever eat sugar, you won't
00:28:43.914 --> 00:28:47.450
Eat all the things that are good for you, that make you
00:28:47.450 --> 00:28:49.820
Healthy and strong.
00:28:49.820 --> 00:28:51.221
And i think screens are that way, that they're soothing,
00:28:51.221 --> 00:28:54.090
They make us feel good, but they keep us from enjoying
00:28:54.090 --> 00:28:57.127
Things that are going to make lasting memories that are going
00:28:57.127 --> 00:28:59.229
To form our imaginations and our character.
00:28:59.229 --> 00:29:01.364
You're editing with the gospel coalition.
00:29:01.364 --> 00:29:02.833
You've written other books.
00:29:02.833 --> 00:29:04.201
What inspired you to write this one?
00:29:04.201 --> 00:29:06.336
Polly and the screen time overload.
00:29:06.336 --> 00:29:09.239
My thought was that you want to start talking with children
00:29:09.239 --> 00:29:12.976
About these things before they are setting their own limits.
00:29:12.976 --> 00:29:16.346
So hopefully most of us as parents are setting limits for
00:29:16.346 --> 00:29:19.516
Our kids for how much time they can have on screens, what they
00:29:19.516 --> 00:29:21.852
Can look at, what they can't.
00:29:21.852 --> 00:29:23.253
But someday they're going to be on their own.
00:29:23.253 --> 00:29:25.255
And so i would love for parents
00:29:25.255 --> 00:29:27.257
To start a dialog with their children.
00:29:27.257 --> 00:29:28.859
When they say no to something, when they say no, you need to
00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:31.061
Not watch any more tv today,
00:29:31.061 --> 00:29:32.996
Talking about, why? i mean, with my own children, sometimes i'll
00:29:32.996 --> 00:29:35.799
Say, you know, they'll watch a 30 minute show and then they'll
00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:38.368
Be grumpy and out of sorts.
00:29:38.368 --> 00:29:39.703
And i'll say, do you remember what happened to polly?
00:29:39.703 --> 00:29:41.671
That's kind of what's happening to you.
00:29:41.671 --> 00:29:43.139
You don't want to do anything
00:29:43.139 --> 00:29:44.040
Else after you've been watching tv.
00:29:44.040 --> 00:29:46.109
So my hope is that parents will have a story that their kids
00:29:46.109 --> 00:29:50.547
Enjoy, but that that will be something they can refer to
00:29:50.547 --> 00:29:53.650
Later as they talk to kids about how to exercise
00:29:53.650 --> 00:29:57.020
Self-control with technology.
00:29:57.020 --> 00:29:59.055
Do you think it's challenging for us as parents and
00:29:59.055 --> 00:30:02.025
Grandparents to get our kids outside, because it's just
00:30:02.025 --> 00:30:06.296
Easier to put a tablet in front of them? because they--
00:30:06.296 --> 00:30:09.199
It really does work.
00:30:09.199 --> 00:30:10.166
I mean, like, it's better than a lollipop.
00:30:10.166 --> 00:30:12.369
Absolutely. makes them quiet.
00:30:12.369 --> 00:30:13.670
They sit down, they focus.
00:30:13.670 --> 00:30:14.905
They're not a distraction.
00:30:14.905 --> 00:30:16.306
Well, it's like a drug in more ways than one.
00:30:16.306 --> 00:30:18.842
You know, it's easier for us.
00:30:18.842 --> 00:30:20.143
It subdues them
00:30:20.143 --> 00:30:21.478
But it also is addictive and
00:30:21.478 --> 00:30:24.781
Makes you not enjoy anything else.
00:30:24.781 --> 00:30:26.850
So i have to watch it as a parent, you know?
00:30:26.850 --> 00:30:29.219
And i'm glad for those phones in an emergency situation and
00:30:29.219 --> 00:30:33.857
In a time where i have an unexpected meeting and i really
00:30:33.857 --> 00:30:36.860
Need my kids to watch something and be quiet.
00:30:36.860 --> 00:30:39.029
But if that becomes what is our go to way of rearing our
00:30:39.029 --> 00:30:43.667
Children, they're going to miss out on so much.
00:30:43.667 --> 00:30:45.702
And their, their minds and their development and their
00:30:45.702 --> 00:30:47.804
Imagination are not going to be what we really want them to be.
00:30:47.804 --> 00:30:51.541
Can you list some of the symptoms of kids who are
00:30:51.541 --> 00:30:54.044
Spending too much time on screens so that parents can
00:30:54.044 --> 00:30:58.114
Recognize that this is actually happening to my child?
00:30:58.114 --> 00:31:01.551
I think sometimes we just get used to things and we don't
00:31:01.551 --> 00:31:04.020
Know that there's a problem.
00:31:04.020 --> 00:31:05.288
You know, it's like people who are like, you know, i never
00:31:05.288 --> 00:31:07.190
Sleep well.
00:31:07.190 --> 00:31:08.191
Um, but they think that's normal.
00:31:08.191 --> 00:31:10.193
No, you actually should be getting this sleep.
00:31:10.193 --> 00:31:12.295
And so for parents that are saying my kids are fine, they
00:31:12.295 --> 00:31:15.198
Have screens, but it's not affecting them,
00:31:15.198 --> 00:31:17.200
What do you see is actually happening to children?
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:20.737
Well, i think
00:31:20.737 --> 00:31:22.038
Any child who's given unlimited access to screens is going to
00:31:22.038 --> 00:31:25.408
Be on screens too much.
00:31:25.408 --> 00:31:26.643
Children are not going to be able to moderate themselves.
00:31:26.643 --> 00:31:29.279
Adults really aren't good at moderating it either,
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:31.514
But kids have the gift of a mom or a dad or mom and dad who are
00:31:31.514 --> 00:31:36.686
Giving appropriate limits.
00:31:36.686 --> 00:31:37.954
So i read that 58%
00:31:37.954 --> 00:31:41.424
Of kids by the age of four have their own tablet.
00:31:41.424 --> 00:31:44.661
By the age of four?
00:31:44.661 --> 00:31:45.695
Four. four.
00:31:45.695 --> 00:31:47.130
And, you know, if you even look at what a pediatrician would
00:31:47.130 --> 00:31:50.800
Give you for guidelines or something like that, they're
00:31:50.800 --> 00:31:52.869
Saying the less they're on screens, the better.
00:31:52.869 --> 00:31:55.805
So we can probably just assume that everybody's on too much.
00:31:55.805 --> 00:31:59.242
And i would just take baby steps at cutting back and
00:31:59.242 --> 00:32:02.545
Making different choices.
00:32:02.545 --> 00:32:04.080
Like i realized that my kids were watching youtube and i
00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:06.383
Realized i don't really like the way this is affecting them
00:32:06.383 --> 00:32:09.452
Because they keep seeing things and then wanting to see other
00:32:09.452 --> 00:32:11.888
Things, the algorithm.
00:32:11.888 --> 00:32:13.089
So at some point, my husband decided, we're not going
00:32:13.089 --> 00:32:15.191
To do youtube anymore.
00:32:15.191 --> 00:32:16.493
We're still going to let them watch shows, but we don't want
00:32:16.493 --> 00:32:19.029
Them to get caught up in the algorithm.
00:32:19.029 --> 00:32:21.197
And that was hard.
00:32:21.197 --> 00:32:22.265
And they complained.
00:32:22.265 --> 00:32:23.566
But you can walk things back as a parent if you feel like it's
00:32:23.566 --> 00:32:27.937
Gone too far.
00:32:27.937 --> 00:32:29.539
How is today's addiction to tablets and youtube different
00:32:29.539 --> 00:32:34.544
From when we were kids, where we had a television and kids
00:32:34.544 --> 00:32:39.549
Sat in front of the tv all day?
00:32:39.549 --> 00:32:42.118
Is it different?
00:32:42.118 --> 00:32:43.186
It's so different because there's television.
00:32:43.186 --> 00:32:44.554
And then later on there were video games, and those were
00:32:44.554 --> 00:32:46.790
Sort of the only two things that you had to limit.
00:32:46.790 --> 00:32:49.759
And of course, when you went to school, you didn't have
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:51.961
Any of those things.
00:32:51.961 --> 00:32:53.296
But now it's very hard to survive in this world without a
00:32:53.296 --> 00:32:57.233
Phone in your pocket that has an internet browser.
00:32:57.233 --> 00:32:59.903
So it's everywhere.
00:32:59.903 --> 00:33:01.638
So there aren't natural boundaries to it.
00:33:01.638 --> 00:33:04.808
So as parents and as christians, we have to put up
00:33:04.808 --> 00:33:07.877
Some artificial boundaries, whether it's no phones at the
00:33:07.877 --> 00:33:10.280
Dinner table, no phones in your bedroom, or you set a timer and
00:33:10.280 --> 00:33:13.917
You tell your kids you can watch for 45 minutes.
00:33:13.917 --> 00:33:16.519
And when the timer goes off, that's done.
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:19.122
Um, you have to have some of those boundaries because there
00:33:19.122 --> 00:33:22.659
Are no natural boundaries.
00:33:22.659 --> 00:33:24.260
It really is a unique time that, that we're living in.
00:33:24.260 --> 00:33:26.529
One of the things that brings me comfort is to remember that
00:33:26.529 --> 00:33:28.665
None of this has taken god by surprise.
00:33:28.665 --> 00:33:30.400
In fact, he created, uh, a woman named betsy chiles howard
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:35.405
To write a book so that we could actually handle some of
00:33:35.405 --> 00:33:39.309
These things that do surprise us.
00:33:39.309 --> 00:33:41.411
And i love, uh, the little nod that you gave to, uh, many of
00:33:41.411 --> 00:33:48.218
Us who have relatives who are well intentioned in our
00:33:48.218 --> 00:33:51.321
Families, who give our children gifts because they're really
00:33:51.321 --> 00:33:55.959
Cool, but they don't have to actually deal with the
00:33:55.959 --> 00:33:58.528
Consequences of them.
00:33:58.528 --> 00:34:00.263
And again, well-intentioned, but you have like an aunt or a
00:34:00.263 --> 00:34:03.633
Relative who gives polly the screen, but she doesn't have
00:34:03.633 --> 00:34:07.237
Children of her own.
00:34:07.237 --> 00:34:08.505
She just knows polly will like it and probably make it make
00:34:08.505 --> 00:34:10.907
Her her favorite aunt.
00:34:10.907 --> 00:34:12.375
But grandma and grandpa and mom and dad understand, and they're
00:34:12.375 --> 00:34:15.979
The ones who actually see what's going on.
00:34:15.979 --> 00:34:17.180
So i think that's why moms and
00:34:17.180 --> 00:34:19.282
Dads have a special responsibility,
00:34:19.282 --> 00:34:21.251
The sacred task of guarding the hearts and minds of children
00:34:21.251 --> 00:34:24.287
And grandparents are so beautifully positioned with
00:34:24.287 --> 00:34:26.556
Extra time and perhaps extra resources without little
00:34:26.556 --> 00:34:30.927
Children of their own, to be able to help parents raise this
00:34:30.927 --> 00:34:35.198
Generation of little ones in a technology-soaked age.
00:34:35.198 --> 00:34:38.768
And grandparents can remember what all the things there are
00:34:38.768 --> 00:34:42.639
For children to do that don't involve screens, you know?
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:45.275
So hopefully grandparents like you will start thinking about
00:34:45.275 --> 00:34:48.678
How can i get my grandchild off the couch, off the device, out
00:34:48.678 --> 00:34:53.283
Into nature, playing with their cousins?
00:34:53.283 --> 00:34:56.653
But it does take work.
00:34:56.653 --> 00:34:58.621
Children aren't going to do it themselves.
00:34:58.621 --> 00:35:00.223
They're going to go for the easy option of the screen.
00:35:00.223 --> 00:35:02.525
There are so many things that kids would just love to do.
00:35:02.525 --> 00:35:06.963
If you take the time to to show them how. to take them on a
00:35:06.963 --> 00:35:11.634
Field trip, um, like in your book, they're building a fort
00:35:11.634 --> 00:35:16.506
In a hayloft with bales of hay.
00:35:16.506 --> 00:35:18.508
They've got grandpa's permission to do it.
00:35:18.508 --> 00:35:20.276
They're feeding animals, they're gathering blueberries,
00:35:20.276 --> 00:35:22.178
They're taking a ride on a horse.
00:35:22.178 --> 00:35:23.813
They're letting the kid, the pigs play in the mud while
00:35:23.813 --> 00:35:26.749
They're throwing them dinner scraps.
00:35:26.749 --> 00:35:27.817
I mean, kids actually-- love this.
00:35:27.817 --> 00:35:30.186
I found our granddaughter loves to play with a cardboard box
00:35:30.186 --> 00:35:33.289
More than all the plastic toys that she's been given.
00:35:33.289 --> 00:35:36.926
I have such great memories of making mud pies in my
00:35:36.926 --> 00:35:40.096
Great aunt's shed.
00:35:40.096 --> 00:35:41.364
There were all these old pieces of pottery and tins, and we
00:35:41.364 --> 00:35:45.034
Just made old fashioned mud pies and we got--
00:35:45.034 --> 00:35:48.137
We were just a mess,
00:35:48.137 --> 00:35:49.305
But it's such a wonderful memory with my cousins.
00:35:49.305 --> 00:35:52.208
So parents know what they're going to get when they read
00:35:52.208 --> 00:35:55.511
This book to their child.
00:35:55.511 --> 00:35:56.913
What do you hope that little kids, 4 to 8 years old who hear
00:35:56.913 --> 00:35:59.716
This story take away from this book?
00:35:59.716 --> 00:36:02.318
I hope they come away not realizing the book is trying to
00:36:02.318 --> 00:36:04.787
Teach them anything.
00:36:04.787 --> 00:36:06.055
I hope they come away really entranced by the story because
00:36:06.055 --> 00:36:09.892
I think that children are--
00:36:09.892 --> 00:36:11.894
They don't like to be taught and preached at, but they do
00:36:11.894 --> 00:36:16.266
Love stories.
00:36:16.266 --> 00:36:17.533
So i hope it just lodges in the back of their mind, in their
00:36:17.533 --> 00:36:19.902
Imagination, inspires them to do other things.
00:36:19.902 --> 00:36:22.372
But then also it will be something that as they get
00:36:22.372 --> 00:36:25.275
Older, they understand when they're like poly having a
00:36:25.275 --> 00:36:28.611
Screen time overload and need need to either be taken away
00:36:28.611 --> 00:36:32.982
From it by their parents or need to tear themselves away.
00:36:32.982 --> 00:36:37.387
Sounds a little sneaky, but i like it. teaching kids--
00:36:37.387 --> 00:36:40.890
Go ahead.
00:36:40.890 --> 00:36:42.091
Well, it is a little sneaky, but it's the way everybody
00:36:42.091 --> 00:36:44.527
Teaches kids in the whole world.
00:36:44.527 --> 00:36:46.095
If you go to--
00:36:46.095 --> 00:36:47.130
I lived in new york and went to
00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:48.564
A bookstore in the children's section,
00:36:48.564 --> 00:36:50.300
A fairy tale--
00:36:50.300 --> 00:36:51.534
This was not a section on gender, but every single fairy
00:36:51.534 --> 00:36:54.771
Tale had some sort of strange gender aspect.
00:36:54.771 --> 00:36:57.674
And these are in the stories.
00:36:57.674 --> 00:36:59.242
So i think as we're teaching our children, we need to be in
00:36:59.242 --> 00:37:02.412
The stories as well, but not in a way that's obvious.
00:37:02.412 --> 00:37:06.516
Not in a way, but in a way that is teaching things that are
00:37:06.516 --> 00:37:09.085
True through stories that have integrity just to form
00:37:09.085 --> 00:37:13.056
A child's imagination.
00:37:13.056 --> 00:37:14.791
I agree with you 100%.
00:37:14.791 --> 00:37:16.092
And that's not sneaky.
00:37:16.092 --> 00:37:17.727
It's, it's deliberate, but
00:37:17.727 --> 00:37:21.531
It engages imagination and story.
00:37:21.531 --> 00:37:23.633
And that's what jesus did with all of his parables.
00:37:23.633 --> 00:37:25.435
He would tell stories.
00:37:25.435 --> 00:37:26.703
In fact, the scriptures say that he didn't he didn't teach
00:37:26.703 --> 00:37:28.738
These things without these stories, because we know that
00:37:28.738 --> 00:37:31.741
Stories are what really lodge in our memories.
00:37:31.741 --> 00:37:34.277
And i remember these stories, particularly about farmers.
00:37:34.277 --> 00:37:37.647
Uh, and, uh, this is what your story does as well.
00:37:37.647 --> 00:37:41.684
All right.
00:37:41.684 --> 00:37:42.919
I want to pause for a second and go to a break so that we
00:37:42.919 --> 00:37:45.121
Can discuss how parents can set boundaries for their kids when
00:37:45.121 --> 00:37:50.293
It comes to their screen time.
00:37:50.293 --> 00:37:52.128
So stay with us.
00:37:52.128 --> 00:37:59.002
So stay with us.
00:37:59.002 --> 00:38:02.573
We're back with author betsy childs howard discussing her
00:38:06.143 --> 00:38:09.613
Book polly and the screen time overload.
00:38:09.613 --> 00:38:13.250
So what advice would you give for parents who are saying, we
00:38:13.250 --> 00:38:18.389
Don't live back in the 1600s?
00:38:18.389 --> 00:38:21.625
Everybody's got phones now, and if i don't give my child
00:38:21.625 --> 00:38:24.728
A tablet, i,
00:38:24.728 --> 00:38:26.497
I'm afraid they'll feel left out.
00:38:26.497 --> 00:38:28.966
They won't know what's going on, and they won't be able to
00:38:28.966 --> 00:38:31.769
Participate in what the other kids are talking about.
00:38:31.769 --> 00:38:34.104
That is a really legitimate concern.
00:38:34.104 --> 00:38:36.173
But i would say now is the time to start teaching kids that
00:38:36.173 --> 00:38:41.011
Just because everybody else is
00:38:41.011 --> 00:38:42.479
Doing something doesn't make it right.
00:38:42.479 --> 00:38:44.348
And i would talk to them about the reasons behind limiting
00:38:44.348 --> 00:38:48.252
Screen time, the reasons behind
00:38:48.252 --> 00:38:49.553
They may not give a phone to a child at eight, or the reason
00:38:49.553 --> 00:38:52.122
They might say you can't be on
00:38:52.122 --> 00:38:53.624
Social media until you're older.
00:38:53.624 --> 00:38:56.026
Talk to them about that, and then help them see that this is
00:38:56.026 --> 00:38:58.595
Something that your family has decided, and you're going
00:38:58.595 --> 00:39:00.697
To stick to it.
00:39:00.697 --> 00:39:01.999
Now, if they are left out, that will be really painful for them
00:39:01.999 --> 00:39:04.868
And for you as a parent,
00:39:04.868 --> 00:39:06.770
But god's word calls us to be aliens and strangers in this
00:39:06.770 --> 00:39:10.974
World, and we need to help our children start understanding
00:39:10.974 --> 00:39:15.245
That sometimes if we feel uncomfortable, that's okay and
00:39:15.245 --> 00:39:18.982
That the lord is with us.
00:39:18.982 --> 00:39:20.984
So it's hard to put that on a child.
00:39:20.984 --> 00:39:23.854
But as parents, you need to do what is best for them, even if
00:39:23.854 --> 00:39:28.792
It's going to be painful sometimes.
00:39:28.792 --> 00:39:30.093
And it's much easier if you can find other like minded families
00:39:30.093 --> 00:39:33.597
Who are also limiting what their children are doing on
00:39:33.597 --> 00:39:36.433
Screens and what they're seeing, and then they can start
00:39:36.433 --> 00:39:39.536
To form other kinds of connections.
00:39:39.536 --> 00:39:41.738
Um, you know, go to the playground with this other
00:39:41.738 --> 00:39:44.274
Family instead of just sitting on screens together.
00:39:44.274 --> 00:39:46.810
So that's something i would pray earnestly for
00:39:46.810 --> 00:39:49.346
If you're a parent who's trying to limit your technology
00:39:49.346 --> 00:39:51.181
Because it's not going to be the norm out there.
00:39:51.181 --> 00:39:53.283
Since the bible does not specifically talk about ipads
00:39:53.283 --> 00:39:56.920
Or itabs like you have in your book, it doesn't specifically
00:39:56.920 --> 00:40:00.724
Talk about instagram and tiktok,
00:40:00.724 --> 00:40:03.093
What are some of the principles that the bible does give us
00:40:03.093 --> 00:40:07.297
That apply to this?
00:40:07.297 --> 00:40:09.099
Well, in the very front of the book, there's a verse from
00:40:09.099 --> 00:40:11.502
First corinthians that says, all things are lawful, but not
00:40:11.502 --> 00:40:14.538
All things are beneficial.
00:40:14.538 --> 00:40:16.673
And i think it's good to talk about that with children, that
00:40:16.673 --> 00:40:19.843
Some things aren't bad in
00:40:19.843 --> 00:40:21.211
Themselves, but can be excessive.
00:40:21.211 --> 00:40:23.213
And it's very important to
00:40:23.213 --> 00:40:24.915
Start teaching our kids self-control.
00:40:24.915 --> 00:40:26.783
That's one of the fruits of the spirit, right?
00:40:26.783 --> 00:40:29.086
And we need that in so many different areas.
00:40:29.086 --> 00:40:31.555
But if we don't exercise self-control in our screen
00:40:31.555 --> 00:40:34.424
Time, we'll have all kinds of negative effects, just like we
00:40:34.424 --> 00:40:38.395
Would if we don't exercise self-control in the way
00:40:38.395 --> 00:40:40.597
We eat and drink
00:40:40.597 --> 00:40:41.965
And, you know, all the other things we do.
00:40:41.965 --> 00:40:44.501
It's something that the bible exalts,
00:40:44.501 --> 00:40:46.670
Self-control, not as an end in itself, but as a way of
00:40:46.670 --> 00:40:49.806
Enjoying the good gifts god has given to us without using them
00:40:49.806 --> 00:40:53.443
In a way he didn't intend.
00:40:53.443 --> 00:40:54.945
Yeah, that's such an important point.
00:40:54.945 --> 00:40:57.080
And we can teach our children perhaps best by leading with
00:40:57.080 --> 00:41:02.085
Our own example.
00:41:02.085 --> 00:41:03.520
So since many adults don't have great limits and boundaries
00:41:03.520 --> 00:41:08.926
With their own social media,
00:41:08.926 --> 00:41:11.194
Does that then make us hypocrites
00:41:11.194 --> 00:41:12.829
If we tell our kids that they need to have limits and only
00:41:12.829 --> 00:41:15.365
Watch x number of hours of screens a day?
00:41:15.365 --> 00:41:18.902
I don't believe it does.
00:41:18.902 --> 00:41:20.203
You know, the bible says that we are to train up our
00:41:20.203 --> 00:41:22.205
Children, and we don't have to have accomplished perfection in
00:41:22.205 --> 00:41:26.777
An area before we start
00:41:26.777 --> 00:41:27.844
Training our children in that area.
00:41:27.844 --> 00:41:30.314
You know, again, this this goes for every area of life.
00:41:30.314 --> 00:41:32.916
Most of us probably don't eat exactly the way we would like
00:41:32.916 --> 00:41:35.152
To eat in terms of we ate too much,
00:41:35.152 --> 00:41:37.854
We may not eat healthy things, but we're going to give our
00:41:37.854 --> 00:41:40.157
Children the best and we're going to try to teach them to
00:41:40.157 --> 00:41:42.292
Have a good appetite for healthy food.
00:41:42.292 --> 00:41:44.661
In the same way, even if we haven't achieved the level of
00:41:44.661 --> 00:41:47.664
Self-control we want with our phones, we can start teaching
00:41:47.664 --> 00:41:50.801
Our children about that, and we can be honest with them that
00:41:50.801 --> 00:41:53.337
It's a struggle for us, too.
00:41:53.337 --> 00:41:54.938
I think that's actually helpful for parents to talk to
00:41:54.938 --> 00:41:58.075
Kids, say i sometimes let my phone keep me from reading a
00:41:58.075 --> 00:42:01.745
Book or playing with you, or doing something else that i
00:42:01.745 --> 00:42:04.514
Should be doing because i just have this compulsion to
00:42:04.514 --> 00:42:06.550
Pick up my phone.
00:42:06.550 --> 00:42:08.185
Well, kids might start pointing that out to you if you, if you
00:42:08.185 --> 00:42:12.022
Confess that to them, that that's a struggle for you,
00:42:12.022 --> 00:42:13.657
But that's not a bad thing.
00:42:13.657 --> 00:42:14.825
So i would say you're a hypocrite if you, if you don't
00:42:14.825 --> 00:42:17.761
Want to have self-control in the area of your screens.
00:42:17.761 --> 00:42:20.530
You're not a hypocrite
00:42:20.530 --> 00:42:21.798
If you are trying to submit your screen time to the lord.
00:42:21.798 --> 00:42:24.534
And you're also trying to train
00:42:24.534 --> 00:42:26.103
Kids how to have healthy screen habits.
00:42:26.103 --> 00:42:28.739
One of my favorite authors of children's books is ted tripp,
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:33.110
And he wrote a book called shepherding a child's heart.
00:42:33.110 --> 00:42:35.212
And he has a brilliant principle in there
00:42:35.212 --> 00:42:37.948
When a child disobeys.
00:42:37.948 --> 00:42:39.683
And that is to, is to, is to always bring those
00:42:39.683 --> 00:42:42.552
Opportunities to the gospel.
00:42:42.552 --> 00:42:45.022
And one of the ways is by reminding your children,
00:42:45.022 --> 00:42:47.057
You know what?
00:42:47.057 --> 00:42:48.492
Daddy's just like you.
00:42:48.492 --> 00:42:50.027
Mommy's just like you.
00:42:50.027 --> 00:42:51.161
We struggle with the same things you struggle with
00:42:51.161 --> 00:42:53.430
Because it's a problem of the heart.
00:42:53.430 --> 00:42:56.233
But listen, there's hope for people like us. like us. not
00:42:56.233 --> 00:43:00.370
Like you. but there's hope for people like us.
00:43:00.370 --> 00:43:02.339
And it's found in jesus.
00:43:02.339 --> 00:43:03.740
And when we follow his ways, he can forgive us.
00:43:03.740 --> 00:43:06.977
He can change us and give us power to to do that which will
00:43:06.977 --> 00:43:10.547
Honor him most and bring us the most joy and the most life.
00:43:10.547 --> 00:43:13.884
So let's pray together that god would help us and then we're,
00:43:13.884 --> 00:43:18.622
We're not shaming them as an outsider where
00:43:18.622 --> 00:43:21.925
We're the perfect insiders.
00:43:21.925 --> 00:43:24.194
We're including the whole
00:43:24.194 --> 00:43:26.129
Family as people who need jesus.
00:43:26.129 --> 00:43:28.465
And now we've got the door wide open to share the gospel
00:43:28.465 --> 00:43:31.134
With our children.
00:43:31.134 --> 00:43:32.302
Exactly. parents, you have
00:43:32.302 --> 00:43:34.471
To train and discipline your children,
00:43:34.471 --> 00:43:36.640
But that's not the ultimate.
00:43:36.640 --> 00:43:38.942
You want to move on to the gospel.
00:43:38.942 --> 00:43:41.545
Yes. when they mess up, when we
00:43:41.545 --> 00:43:43.213
Mess up, even before we mess up
00:43:43.213 --> 00:43:45.315
Talking about our need for jesus.
00:43:45.315 --> 00:43:46.850
Yeah. i love that.
00:43:46.850 --> 00:43:48.585
Can you give us some practical guidelines on how we could set
00:43:48.585 --> 00:43:52.222
Boundaries for our kids, so that they don't just scream and
00:43:52.222 --> 00:43:57.094
Yell and whine and complain all the time?
00:43:57.094 --> 00:43:58.528
How do we get them used to healthy use of technology?
00:43:58.528 --> 00:44:02.099
Well, having structure and habits and things that they
00:44:02.099 --> 00:44:06.369
Know they can expect is very helpful, too.
00:44:06.369 --> 00:44:08.972
So like, if you have a defined amount of time, they're allowed
00:44:08.972 --> 00:44:11.341
To be on a screen each day,
00:44:11.341 --> 00:44:12.743
It's not just going to be a shock when you say you've
00:44:12.743 --> 00:44:14.978
Been on that all day.
00:44:14.978 --> 00:44:15.879
I'm taking that away from you. right.
00:44:15.879 --> 00:44:17.114
You know, so like if, if you have a set time each day,
00:44:17.114 --> 00:44:20.283
They can watch a show or play a game.
00:44:20.283 --> 00:44:22.552
Um, i love using a kitchen timer, an egg timer and
00:44:22.552 --> 00:44:25.889
Physically setting it, not even doing the timer on my phone.
00:44:25.889 --> 00:44:28.759
Then when the bell rings, it's not me coming in and saying,
00:44:28.759 --> 00:44:31.661
Hey, your screen time is up.
00:44:31.661 --> 00:44:32.963
They all know, you know, they may not be happy about it, but
00:44:32.963 --> 00:44:34.931
That's been really helpful for us.
00:44:34.931 --> 00:44:36.399
I think it's good not to let kids have devices in
00:44:36.399 --> 00:44:39.002
Their rooms or it--
00:44:39.002 --> 00:44:41.304
I think it's best to keep things out in public, you know,
00:44:41.304 --> 00:44:44.941
Within the context of your home and common spaces, rather than
00:44:44.941 --> 00:44:47.377
Letting kids, um, just browse the internet in their rooms.
00:44:47.377 --> 00:44:50.847
And one thing i've found, um, is can be a helpful
00:44:50.847 --> 00:44:54.117
Replacement, particularly if everybody's tired,
00:44:54.117 --> 00:44:56.686
You know, it's sort of the natural time that, oh, we'll
00:44:56.686 --> 00:44:58.522
Just get on a screen, is to let kids listen to audiobooks while
00:44:58.522 --> 00:45:01.691
They play with toys.
00:45:01.691 --> 00:45:03.160
For some reason, the audiobook doesn't have the same sort of
00:45:03.160 --> 00:45:06.263
Effect that looking at a brightly colored screen has.
00:45:06.263 --> 00:45:10.901
So that can be like a replacement building that time
00:45:10.901 --> 00:45:13.637
In their day. we have our sort of quiet time every day, where
00:45:13.637 --> 00:45:16.640
My boys go to their rooms and they can do whatever they want,
00:45:16.640 --> 00:45:19.342
But they're by themselves and they listen to an audiobook.
00:45:19.342 --> 00:45:21.645
So i get a little downtime, the kind of downtime that a screen
00:45:21.645 --> 00:45:24.648
Would have given me.
00:45:24.648 --> 00:45:25.916
Um, and then we do do shows as well.
00:45:25.916 --> 00:45:28.185
We don't completely keep that from them, but having that kind
00:45:28.185 --> 00:45:30.654
Of structure keeps the like complaining and whining,
00:45:30.654 --> 00:45:33.924
But, but i want to watch one more just because they know
00:45:33.924 --> 00:45:37.093
What to expect.
00:45:37.093 --> 00:45:38.195
Yeah, i like that.
00:45:38.195 --> 00:45:39.696
I like the idea of we don't watch screens except for this
00:45:39.696 --> 00:45:45.101
Special time where you can rather than, well, i can watch
00:45:45.101 --> 00:45:50.841
Screens whenever except when mom tells me not to.
00:45:50.841 --> 00:45:53.476
Right.
00:45:53.476 --> 00:45:54.744
It's like flip it around and make it something that they can
00:45:54.744 --> 00:45:57.047
Look forward to for a time, but
00:45:57.047 --> 00:45:58.615
It's not expected to be their normal.
00:45:58.615 --> 00:46:00.617
Right. you know, there is a place for screens in the
00:46:00.617 --> 00:46:02.886
Life of a family.
00:46:02.886 --> 00:46:04.588
It just shouldn't be our our full time diet.
00:46:04.588 --> 00:46:07.224
I totally agree with you.
00:46:07.224 --> 00:46:08.158
And i'm in the movie making business.
00:46:08.158 --> 00:46:09.426
In fact, i've written books for kids, but now i'm making a
00:46:09.426 --> 00:46:12.596
Children's television show like mister rogers for this
00:46:12.596 --> 00:46:15.365
Generation of children.
00:46:15.365 --> 00:46:17.267
However, i don't think they
00:46:17.267 --> 00:46:18.368
Should be watching it all day long.
00:46:18.368 --> 00:46:19.569
Right. i mean, i want you to watch it, but because it's
00:46:19.569 --> 00:46:21.471
Teaching good things, just like your book,
00:46:21.471 --> 00:46:23.240
But i want you to go outside.
00:46:23.240 --> 00:46:24.374
I want you to be in nature.
00:46:24.374 --> 00:46:25.375
I want you to,
00:46:25.375 --> 00:46:26.276
I want you to interact with people.
00:46:26.276 --> 00:46:27.177
I want you to read the bible.
00:46:27.177 --> 00:46:28.178
I want you to learn about history.
00:46:28.178 --> 00:46:29.980
What are some things that parents can do to encourage
00:46:29.980 --> 00:46:33.149
Kids to stay with their outdoor activities?
00:46:33.149 --> 00:46:36.720
I'm thinking of the mom who says, hey, go outside and play.
00:46:36.720 --> 00:46:38.922
And then they go outside.
00:46:38.922 --> 00:46:40.190
They, they, they throw a rock, they're bored and they come
00:46:40.190 --> 00:46:43.193
Back in and they want to jump on a phone again.
00:46:43.193 --> 00:46:45.061
It's definitely something i deal with with my kids, and
00:46:45.061 --> 00:46:47.664
They're very clingy and they say, no, we don't want to go
00:46:47.664 --> 00:46:49.399
Outside if you don't go.
00:46:49.399 --> 00:46:50.567
And one thing i did over christmas break when they were
00:46:50.567 --> 00:46:53.036
Out of preschool is i said, we're going to have
00:46:53.036 --> 00:46:55.438
Outside time every day.
00:46:55.438 --> 00:46:56.573
And again, i brought the kitchen timer and set it and
00:46:56.573 --> 00:46:58.975
They kind of complained.
00:46:58.975 --> 00:47:00.243
But the second day they didn't complain because all of a
00:47:00.243 --> 00:47:02.245
Sudden it was outside time.
00:47:02.245 --> 00:47:04.080
It was in our schedule.
00:47:04.080 --> 00:47:05.882
So and then they would stay out there longer. you know, the
00:47:05.882 --> 00:47:09.219
Timer would go off, but they
00:47:09.219 --> 00:47:10.153
Would be deep into what they're doing.
00:47:10.153 --> 00:47:11.888
And i think also recognizing you can't hover around them and
00:47:11.888 --> 00:47:15.358
Shelter them the whole time they're playing outside.
00:47:15.358 --> 00:47:16.960
They need to be able to pick up sticks.
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:18.428
You know, you need to teach them not to throw a rock at
00:47:18.428 --> 00:47:20.363
Their brother, but maybe sometimes they're going to
00:47:20.363 --> 00:47:22.365
Throw a rock at a tree or, you know, do things that are
00:47:22.365 --> 00:47:25.068
A little bit dangerous. yeah.
00:47:25.068 --> 00:47:27.170
But it's how they are growing and developing and, and
00:47:27.170 --> 00:47:30.707
Playing in a good way.
00:47:30.707 --> 00:47:32.008
Yeah. and sometimes i think we
00:47:32.008 --> 00:47:33.276
Just got to give them some time.
00:47:33.276 --> 00:47:34.811
They got to figure this out.
00:47:34.811 --> 00:47:35.979
But boredom sometimes is a great motivator to get
00:47:35.979 --> 00:47:39.616
Creative, and all of a sudden you'll find that your kids are
00:47:39.616 --> 00:47:42.552
Making forts in the bushes, and they're creating all sorts of
00:47:42.552 --> 00:47:47.023
Fascinating things.
00:47:47.023 --> 00:47:48.325
You just got to give them time and don't do it all for them.
00:47:48.325 --> 00:47:51.261
And if you never let them get bored, they're never going
00:47:51.261 --> 00:47:53.196
To become creative. that's right.
00:47:53.196 --> 00:47:54.497
You know, sometimes they need to be bored so that they will
00:47:54.497 --> 00:47:57.200
Find what they like to do.
00:47:57.200 --> 00:47:59.369
If you just constantly feed your children things that, um,
00:47:59.369 --> 00:48:03.440
You know, never let them experience hunger, they're
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:05.342
Never going to appreciate the goodness of food.
00:48:05.342 --> 00:48:07.143
And if you constantly feed them screen time, they're never
00:48:07.143 --> 00:48:09.612
Going to see a need to be imaginative to appreciate the
00:48:09.612 --> 00:48:12.248
Outdoors because they can find a more colorful, more
00:48:12.248 --> 00:48:15.952
Captivating world inside their tablet than they will by going
00:48:15.952 --> 00:48:19.723
Out and seeing a sunset.
00:48:19.723 --> 00:48:21.791
I completely agree.
00:48:21.791 --> 00:48:22.892
Yes. yeah, yeah.
00:48:22.892 --> 00:48:24.527
And hopefully when you see that sunset, your instinct won't be
00:48:24.527 --> 00:48:27.630
To pull out your phone and take a picture of it, you know, just
00:48:27.630 --> 00:48:29.799
To really enjoy living life instead of living it through
00:48:29.799 --> 00:48:33.903
The medium of a screen.
00:48:33.903 --> 00:48:35.338
Well, i'm so glad you wrote this book.
00:48:35.338 --> 00:48:36.639
It's so important, and i hope everybody gets it.
00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:38.641
Thank you so much, kirk.
00:48:38.641 --> 00:48:40.010
After the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:48:40.010 --> 00:48:48.007
After the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:48:48.007 --> 00:48:52.256
Today on takeaways, we stepped into a much needed discussion
00:48:55.893 --> 00:48:59.130
About technology and having wisdom in a digital age.
00:48:59.130 --> 00:49:02.867
Our guest, jason thacker and betsy childs howard, didn't
00:49:02.867 --> 00:49:06.037
Just ask whether technology is good or bad, but challenged us
00:49:06.037 --> 00:49:10.508
To consider how it is shaping us and our children.
00:49:10.508 --> 00:49:14.612
Let's take a look at today's takeaways.
00:49:14.612 --> 00:49:18.249
Don't just use technology.
00:49:18.249 --> 00:49:20.785
Slow down and discern from the very beginning.
00:49:20.785 --> 00:49:24.655
Jason thacker reminded us that technology is not neutral.
00:49:24.655 --> 00:49:28.793
It's actually shaping us.
00:49:28.793 --> 00:49:30.895
It's easy to default to constant connection, mindlessly
00:49:30.895 --> 00:49:34.865
Picking up our phones without even thinking.
00:49:34.865 --> 00:49:37.168
While we can't naively reject or naively embrace technology,
00:49:37.168 --> 00:49:42.173
Jason challenged us to slow down and cultivate wisdom on
00:49:42.173 --> 00:49:47.445
How we should personally engage with technology.
00:49:47.445 --> 00:49:50.748
And to do this, he said, we should ask ourselves some
00:49:50.748 --> 00:49:53.350
Deeper questions.
00:49:53.350 --> 00:49:54.452
Is this good for me?
00:49:54.452 --> 00:49:55.920
Do i like who i'm becoming when i use this?
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.723
How is this shaping me toward being like christ?
00:49:59.723 --> 00:50:03.360
Simply put, slow down and seek wisdom before engaging with
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:08.666
Technology as a default.
00:50:08.666 --> 00:50:10.935
Remember, jesus is alive. ai is not.
00:50:10.935 --> 00:50:14.905
One of the most important things to remember
00:50:14.905 --> 00:50:17.575
When engaging in a polarized, information heavy world is that
00:50:17.575 --> 00:50:22.046
We need something outside the internet to tell us what is
00:50:22.046 --> 00:50:26.150
True and keep us from being fearful of the future.
00:50:26.150 --> 00:50:30.921
Both jason and betsy reminded
00:50:30.921 --> 00:50:32.923
Us that ai has not taken god by surprise.
00:50:32.923 --> 00:50:36.293
He has given us everything that we need to critically use the
00:50:36.293 --> 00:50:40.498
Technology of the world that we're living in.
00:50:40.498 --> 00:50:43.767
As we acknowledge that ai is not our god, not our ultimate
00:50:43.767 --> 00:50:48.105
Truth, we have to look outside the internet, to jesus, to his
00:50:48.105 --> 00:50:52.076
Word, and to his people to tell us what's true and unchanging.
00:50:52.076 --> 00:50:57.081
And we do this by prioritizing face to face conversations in
00:50:57.081 --> 00:51:02.353
Community and using scripture as our final authority.
00:51:02.353 --> 00:51:07.291
Parent from honesty, not perfection.
00:51:07.291 --> 00:51:10.828
Something that every parent wonders is how to set a
00:51:10.828 --> 00:51:14.198
Standard for our children
00:51:14.198 --> 00:51:15.833
Without feeling like hypocrites ourselves.
00:51:15.833 --> 00:51:19.303
An interesting perspective from betsy was that we don't have to
00:51:19.303 --> 00:51:22.907
Master self-control before we teach it to our children.
00:51:22.907 --> 00:51:27.044
So whether it's technology, food or any other struggle.
00:51:27.044 --> 00:51:31.582
Our kids will benefit from seeing us pursue growth
00:51:31.582 --> 00:51:35.319
From a place of honesty.
00:51:35.319 --> 00:51:38.222
This week, share one technology habit that you're working to
00:51:38.222 --> 00:51:41.759
Improve, and then invite your children into the conversation
00:51:41.759 --> 00:51:44.962
Of how we're all learning to
00:51:44.962 --> 00:51:47.064
Have self-control with our devices.
00:51:47.064 --> 00:51:50.034
Give your kids something better than a screen.
00:51:50.034 --> 00:51:53.871
Betsy and i talked about how technology isn't always bad,
00:51:53.871 --> 00:51:57.908
But it can easily crowd out some of the things children
00:51:57.908 --> 00:52:01.545
Need most imagination,
00:52:01.545 --> 00:52:04.281
Creativity, and meaningful relationships.
00:52:04.281 --> 00:52:07.918
Her suggestion wasn't simply to take screens away, but to offer
00:52:07.918 --> 00:52:11.455
Them something better in their place.
00:52:11.455 --> 00:52:14.558
Two ways you can easily do this.
00:52:14.558 --> 00:52:16.827
Give your children blocks of time outside to explore and use
00:52:16.827 --> 00:52:21.031
Their imagination, and find like minded community with
00:52:21.031 --> 00:52:25.035
Families who share similar values around technology rather
00:52:25.035 --> 00:52:29.573
Than focusing on what you're removing, consider what you're
00:52:29.573 --> 00:52:32.943
Replacing it with,
00:52:32.943 --> 00:52:34.311
Time in god's creation and intentional relationships.
00:52:34.311 --> 00:52:39.316
That's all for this episode of takeaways.
00:52:39.316 --> 00:52:41.552
Thanks for watching, and if you've enjoyed this show, don't
00:52:41.552 --> 00:52:44.388
Forget to set your dvr to never miss an episode.
00:52:44.388 --> 00:52:47.725
And of course, you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:52:47.725 --> 00:52:50.794
Searching for takeaways on tbn+ or by visiting the
00:52:50.794 --> 00:52:54.965
Kirk cameron on tbn youtube channel.
00:52:54.965 --> 00:52:58.002
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:52:58.002 --> 00:53:01.872
♪♪
00:53:01.872 --> 00:53:01.872

Jason Thacker & Betsy Childs Howard: Managing our Time Wisely in Cyberspace | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

July 6, 2026 | 53:25

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