Jennie Allen & Gary Thomas: Dismantling Deceptions and Renewing our Minds | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

April 13, 2026 | 53:26

Kirk Cameron is joined by Jennie Allen and Gary Thomas talking about deceptions we accept in our lives and being intentional to change the way we think and live by God’s truth.

#Author #RenewingtheMind #Deception #Thinking #Mind #SpiritualGrowth #SeekGod #Truth #Bible #KirkCameron #JennieAllen

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Jennie Allen & Gary Thomas: Dismantling Deceptions and Renewing our Minds | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | April 13, 2026

Kirk cameron: romans 12:2 says: "do not conform to the pattern
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Of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of
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Your mind."
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The living bible translates that verse this way: "don't copy the
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Behaviors and customs of this world, but be a new and
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Different person with a fresh newness in all you do
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And think."
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Do you live life a certain way because your thoughts about
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Yourself may be from past hurts, false teachings, or maybe the
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Pattern of this godless world system?
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Well, today, our guests, jennie allen and gary thomas will
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Discuss ways to dismantle the lies we tell ourselves and how
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To renew our minds with god's truth.
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Jennie allen: it isn't about what's true or not that's
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Happening to us.
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It's about our identity and what do we believe to be core and
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True about ourselves, no matter what the circumstances are that
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Happen around us.
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Gary thomas: the apostle paul warns of spiritually malicious
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Lies that are designed to wreak havoc on our spiritual life.
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Kirk: it's all happening right now on "takeaways."
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♪♪♪
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Kirk: we're really excited about our first guest on
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"takeaways" today.
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Jennie allen is a bible teacher.
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She's an author, a podcast host, and a visionary leader.
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As the founder of if:gathering and gather25, she's devoted her
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Life to disciple a generation to see revival across the globe.
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She's written several bestselling books, and today
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We're gonna talk about her latest one, it's called "the lie
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You don't know you believe: how to find it, fight it, and
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Live free."
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Jennie, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
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Jennie: it's great to be here.
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Thanks for having me, kirk.
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Kirk: i think the topic that you're addressing is so
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Important because people believe lies that we don't even know we
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Believe, right?
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I mean, i don't want to believe fairy tales.
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I left that behind when i was a little kid.
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But what are some of the common lies that adults believe?
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And it's not santa claus and it's not the tooth fairy.
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What are the kinds of things that we believe?
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Jennie: well, let me start by just telling you a story because
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I think this will set the context.
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So, i'm sitting across from my daughter, she's 20-something at
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The time, she has gotten married, she's living this
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Awesome life, she's just in love with jesus and just--she's
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A success.
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I mean, she built a photography business, she's amazing, and
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She's sitting there and telling me how broken she feels, how
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Defective she feels.
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And it just made me angry.
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And i was like, this is just not true.
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And i'm defending to her why it's not true.
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And she stopped me and she said, "you're my mom.
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You're supposed to feel this way about me."
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And i was like, oh gosh, she thinks it's true.
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Like i'm trying to fight it.
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She really believes it.
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And it was so frustrating to me until i realized, oh my gosh, i
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Am the same way.
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Like i have struggled with feeling
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Like i'm nothing or i'm worthless or what i'm doing
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Doesn't matter, all my life too.
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And i think it made me so mad that i was like, let's, i want
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To tackle this.
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I want to figure out where this has come from, and why is
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It contagious?
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Why is my daughter struggling with the same lie that i
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Believe, even though we were not critical parents?
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Like we celebrated everything.
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And so, i think that started it.
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But the three lies that in my research i found that humans
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Believe are, "i am worthless, i am helpless, i am unlovable,"
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And we all tend to have one that really becomes a core lie, that
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Oftentimes was put there from a young age, and the enemy planned
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It, and it lives with us sometimes unchecked.
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And honestly, us believing that it's true for decades.
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Kirk: what are the three common lies again that you're saying
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Most people believe?
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Jennie: that, "i am worthless.
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I am unlovable and i'm helpless."
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Kirk: so, i can relate to feeling that i'm not deserving
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Of god's love, which i think is important to recognize or grace
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Wouldn't be so wonderful and amazing.
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Right now, i can also have an inflated view of myself and say,
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I am worth all of god's blessings.
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And so, i think for me coming out of hollywood and celebrity
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"growing pains," all that stuff, you know, there's this lie that
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We're told, which is, "you're awesome, you're amazing," you
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Know, "you are," you know, "you are the--let your inner god or
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Your goddess," you know, "manifest."
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You're like, hold on, "that's a terrible lie for me to believe
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Because now i don't think i need a savior."
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Jennie: well, so let's go--let's take it a little deeper.
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So, there's a chapter in the book that's called "the lie
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Beneath the lie," and the lie beneath these three lies are
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That i could finally--instead of feeling helpless, i could
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Finally be in control.
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Or the lie that i'm unlovable, i could--i could finally be loved
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By everybody, or i could finally do enough and measure up, and
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Hit the mark and be awesome.
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And i would say a lot of us move from--really, we don't want to
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Feel shame, and so we don't want to admit like we don't
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Have control.
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And sometimes i'm not very lovable, we don't want to admit
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That, so we move to compensate or to just shut down.
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So we--there's two places we go.
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It's inflate it and be like, "i am so confident and i have it
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Together and i hit the mark and i am lovable."
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Kirk: fake it till you make it.
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Jennie: yes.
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Or we just go, "i can't hit the mark, and so, i'm out."
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And that's why the gospel is so awesome, because what the gospel
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Does is it takes us--there's a verse in john that says: "the
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Truth will set you free."
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If you know the truth, it's gonna set you free.
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I think i always thought that truth in that verse would have
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Meant a bible verse, that i would say a bible verse and i
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Would be set free, but we all know that that doesn't always
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Work, right?
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Like, especially with lies that we've believed for decades.
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And so, when you think about truth, i want you to think the
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Whole truth of god, the truth of heaven, the truth of what we get
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In the--in grace, how we get to live totally differently.
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And so, the hope is that we--you know, the kingdom of the world,
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You better hit the mark.
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Like you actually need to hit the mark.
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You need to measure up, you need to get as much love as you can,
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You need to get control wherever you can, and so everybody
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Strives for that, and that's kind of the message we get every
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Single day of our lives online and everywhere else in
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Our lives.
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And so, it's exhausting.
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So, what--you know, what we talk about in the book is just, this
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Is a different way to live.
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When you live with heaven as home and you don't have to
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Perform, and you don't have to hit the mark, and you don't have
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To be lovable every day, and you don't have to be in control
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Because god is, there's a grace and a peace that comes over your
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Life that nothing can compare to.
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And so, that's my hope from this is just that people would go,
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"gosh, i don't--i don't have to live for this anymore."
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It's not that we can all of a sudden arrive at all of these
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Places, right?
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We don't get everybody loving us at the same time.
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That just doesn't happen, you know, but what we get is a god
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Who says, "it's okay when you fail.
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It's okay when it doesn't work out."
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Kirk: i wanna ask you if you could share with us, just to
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Humanize you a little bit, this lie that you discovered you
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Believe that maybe got passed down to your daughter.
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And i'll share a lie that i think that i've believed, and
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I'm so grateful that i was able to dismantle it with the help of
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A good friend and replace it with what's actually true
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Because it made a big difference for me.
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Jennie: okay, so the moment that i realized i had a massive lie
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That i didn't think i had, i was praying with a friend who is
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Really good at helping people get free when she prays
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For them.
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And i was like, i wanna learn that.
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Like, i wanna learn how she does that.
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So, we sit down together, it's late.
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I was like, teach me how you do that.
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She was like, "well, let's do it on you."
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I was like, i'm good, you know, i don't need this.
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And it--kind of back to the lie you don't know you believe.
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I thought i really was free and good.
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I've done some counseling.
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I was in a healthy place in my life.
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And the next thing i know, she asked me serie--she asked a
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Series of questions and all of a sudden, i'm weeping.
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It's now past midnight, and i can't get control, and i am
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Saying the words, i am nothing.
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And if you--if you remember the marvel movie right before the
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"endgame," the last final movie in that series, there was--there
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Was an episode or a--there was a movie where they all vanished,
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Like they turn into dust and that was what i felt like.
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I was like, everything i do, everything i am, it's just gonna
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Turn into dust.
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And i'm a--i went to seminary, like i'm a theologian.
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I know--i know the truth.
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I know it's not about though all the time knowing what's true,
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It's that all of my life there had been evidence, there was an
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Enemy that wanted me to believe that i was worthless, and then
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The enemy brought evidence.
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Some of the evidence was valid, some of the evidence was true,
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You know, i didn't hit the mark.
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There were times i failed.
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And some of the evidence was just confusing.
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Like, my dad would say something and i would take it to mean i
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Was a failure, that i wouldn't be accepted unless i did this.
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And so, you know, i realized, oh my gosh, like this is--this has
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Taken over my life, like decades of my life.
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And i would say i still struggle with it, you know, i still
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Sometimes will turn back into my 12-year-old self.
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I was 12 years old when i really--i first remember
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Believing that lie, but i have experienced so much more freedom
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Now today than i was--i was in for years.
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Kirk: well, i--i'm really excited to get into the
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Practical strategies that will help us to identify what lies we
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Actually believe and then how to dismantle them and replace them
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With the truth, because if we don't know, if we're
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Self-deceived, sometimes we need somebody else like you, your
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Book, or a friend to help us, like, you know, take the--take
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The cloak off the lie and show it to us.
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I think for me, being somebody who's always been on a stage
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Since i was a little kid, if people don't do this after i say
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My lines, i could get fired.
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And so, the measure of my worth was how well i could hit the
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Target for the joke or not bump into the furniture and remember
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My lines and perform, essentially.
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So, i've been performing for forever and i was an atheist in
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The beginning and i inadvertently thought that the
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Kingdom of god works similarly to where if i performed for
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Jesus and did the right things--and sometimes, you know,
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Kids grow up in homes like this where it's like, memorize all
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Your bible verses, you know, get the gold sticker at the awana
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Class and do all the things for god, and then you're gonna be a
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Good christian and to recognize that--
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Jennie: it's an exhausting way to live.
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Kirk: it is, and that's why i think people come to resent
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Religion so much, is that all that performance never fixes the
00:11:10.993 --> 00:11:15.931
Problem, which is why we get the gospel, not just the old system
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Of law, which is jesus transforms the heart and then
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Actually it then becomes about living for god.
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So once i--once i realized that lie, that made a huge difference
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And really set me free.
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Jennie: okay, so go back to how old you were the first time you
00:11:36.085 --> 00:11:39.355
Believed that.
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Kirk: nine years old was when i started in hollywood.
00:11:40.689 --> 00:11:42.658
Yeah, "growing pains" started when i was about 14 and so that
00:11:42.658 --> 00:11:44.927
Whole time it was like memorize your lines, do your thing--
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Jennie: so, nine years old is so young you don't have another way
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To see the world.
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At nine, you can't look at it and go,
00:11:51.534 --> 00:11:53.669
"this isn't a way to live," right?
00:11:53.669 --> 00:11:55.004
You're just--it's the way you live.
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Kirk: that's the only thing you know.
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Jennie: and i think that's the important thing people hear is
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Oftentimes these lies we inherited them at a very
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Young age.
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And so, it really has been the way we've always thought since
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We were conscious, since we have memories, and so, that's where
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We get stuck.
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Kirk: yeah.
00:12:14.690 --> 00:12:16.025
I really want to talk about what it takes to break down some of
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These lies because i think for many of us, it's hard to break
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Down the lie and we might not even want to examine these
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Foundations that we've built our life on.
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I can't help but just think of the tragedy of children who grow
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Up thinking that they're born in the wrong body or something like
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This and they built an entire life on something and to
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Question that or to question your faith in a particular
00:12:42.218 --> 00:12:45.087
Religion is to really like topple the entire house and
00:12:45.087 --> 00:12:48.791
Start over, but it's the only way to be healthy and whole so
00:12:48.791 --> 00:12:53.762
Let's save those questions for when we come back after
00:12:53.762 --> 00:12:56.699
The break.
00:12:56.699 --> 00:12:58.033
We're gonna talk more with jennie about our common
00:12:58.033 --> 00:13:00.035
Struggles with anxiety, and what is often at the root of our
00:13:00.035 --> 00:13:04.173
Deepest fears later in the program.
00:13:04.173 --> 00:13:06.308
And then we're gonna be back with gary thomas to get his
00:13:06.308 --> 00:13:09.111
Perspective on unpacking common falsehoods that rob us from a
00:13:09.111 --> 00:13:13.315
Deeper relationship with god.
00:13:13.315 --> 00:13:14.884
So, don't go away.
00:13:14.884 --> 00:13:16.252
Gary: and so, the life you were reborn to live calls us to
00:13:16.252 --> 00:13:20.456
Change the way we think.
00:13:20.456 --> 00:13:21.957
And when we change the way we think, we change the way we act.
00:13:21.957 --> 00:13:25.361
♪♪♪
00:13:25.361 --> 00:13:30.933
♪♪♪
00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:36.936
Kirk: we're back with bible teacher and new york times
00:13:38.437 --> 00:13:40.472
Bestselling author, jennie allen, and we're discussing her
00:13:40.472 --> 00:13:42.508
New book, "the lie you don't know you believe."
00:13:42.508 --> 00:13:47.012
Self-deception is just the worst because if i don't even know
00:13:47.012 --> 00:13:51.517
That i believe the lie, how can i fix it?
00:13:51.517 --> 00:13:53.786
How can i tell the truth?
00:13:53.786 --> 00:13:55.154
That's why i'm so glad that you wrote this book and you give
00:13:55.154 --> 00:13:58.123
People some of the most common lies that they can sort of kind
00:13:58.123 --> 00:14:01.827
Of drop their beliefs through as a grid to see if, you know, they
00:14:01.827 --> 00:14:06.365
Can be diagnosed with some of this deception.
00:14:06.365 --> 00:14:10.336
Jennie: yeah, you know, i think of--you know, a lot of people
00:14:10.336 --> 00:14:12.771
Listening are probably thinking, "i don't know if i believe in
00:14:12.771 --> 00:14:15.074
A lie.
00:14:15.074 --> 00:14:16.442
I don't know if--which one i am," you know, all that.
00:14:16.442 --> 00:14:18.477
Let me just say that's so normal.
00:14:18.477 --> 00:14:20.479
I mean, it really is because everything in you has always
00:14:20.479 --> 00:14:26.518
Believed it.
00:14:26.518 --> 00:14:27.887
So, let me just give some examples of thoughts and
00:14:27.887 --> 00:14:31.023
Experiences that people might have that maybe might help.
00:14:31.023 --> 00:14:33.993
So, i want you to think if you walk into a room and you notice,
00:14:33.993 --> 00:14:37.696
Almost immediately, you feel insecure that you notice
00:14:37.696 --> 00:14:42.134
Yourself in the room versus other people in the room, that's
00:14:42.134 --> 00:14:44.803
Probably coming from something from your childhood, right?
00:14:44.803 --> 00:14:47.072
Like you learned early on.
00:14:47.072 --> 00:14:48.674
I mean it's not just a social fear, it's also that there's an
00:14:48.674 --> 00:14:52.611
Awareness and insecurity that's just been there.
00:14:52.611 --> 00:14:54.914
I call it like a low grade fever in the book.
00:14:54.914 --> 00:14:56.815
It's just--it's not something that's really loud or noticeable
00:14:56.815 --> 00:15:00.185
Or toxic, it's just something that has subtly grown for a long
00:15:00.185 --> 00:15:03.622
Time, but it gets a lot of our thoughts.
00:15:03.622 --> 00:15:06.659
And so imagine if i'm helpless, if that's your lie, maybe you
00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:10.729
Were abused as a child, maybe your mom came home and told
00:15:10.729 --> 00:15:15.601
You, "i have cancer," things that you couldn't control.
00:15:15.601 --> 00:15:19.505
At a young age, that begins that feeling of, "i can't control
00:15:19.505 --> 00:15:23.175
This circumstance," and all of a sudden it feels like you can't
00:15:23.175 --> 00:15:25.477
Control any circumstance, or "i'm worthless," you find
00:15:25.477 --> 00:15:28.948
Yourself striving and working hard all the time.
00:15:28.948 --> 00:15:31.083
That was probably yours.
00:15:31.083 --> 00:15:32.418
You were performing all the time and you were kind of looking
00:15:32.418 --> 00:15:34.153
Back and forth.
00:15:34.153 --> 00:15:35.521
Am i hitting the mark?
00:15:35.521 --> 00:15:36.855
Am i doing what's asked of me?
00:15:36.855 --> 00:15:38.223
That's mine as well.
00:15:38.223 --> 00:15:39.558
And then, "i'm unlovable."
00:15:39.558 --> 00:15:40.893
You need people to like you.
00:15:40.893 --> 00:15:42.261
You're approaching relationships just trying to make sure that
00:15:42.261 --> 00:15:44.363
They're good and we're good, and it feels like relationships are
00:15:44.363 --> 00:15:48.033
Hard to have because they don't hit the need that you have.
00:15:48.033 --> 00:15:52.371
So, it just feels like you're always just running after love
00:15:52.371 --> 00:15:56.175
And acceptance, and it feels like you can't quite get it.
00:15:56.175 --> 00:15:59.044
And so, those kind of lay out the three.
00:15:59.044 --> 00:16:00.612
I think we all feel all three at a given point in our
00:16:00.612 --> 00:16:03.916
Life, right?
00:16:03.916 --> 00:16:05.250
But usually, one of them came from a theme from your family or
00:16:05.250 --> 00:16:08.454
A circumstance that happened to you from a young age.
00:16:08.454 --> 00:16:10.656
And so, that kind of helps it.
00:16:10.656 --> 00:16:12.725
But the same question i asked you: when did you first believe
00:16:12.725 --> 00:16:15.427
That lie?
00:16:15.427 --> 00:16:16.795
You knew, nine years old.
00:16:16.795 --> 00:16:18.130
Nine years old, i enter into this world, a circumstance, and
00:16:18.130 --> 00:16:21.900
It gave you a message.
00:16:21.900 --> 00:16:23.469
It said you need to hit the mark, and it was true, right?
00:16:23.469 --> 00:16:25.971
Like part of it was true.
00:16:25.971 --> 00:16:27.306
You did need to hit the mark to keep the job.
00:16:27.306 --> 00:16:29.408
And so, that it isn't about what's true or not that's
00:16:29.408 --> 00:16:33.412
Happening to us.
00:16:33.412 --> 00:16:34.747
It's about our identity and what do we believe to be core and
00:16:34.747 --> 00:16:37.750
True about ourselves, no matter what the circumstances are that
00:16:37.750 --> 00:16:41.720
Happen around us.
00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:43.355
Would your book be different if you weren't a christian?
00:16:43.355 --> 00:16:47.393
Jennie: yes.
00:16:47.393 --> 00:16:48.861
Kirk: how?
00:16:48.861 --> 00:16:50.195
Why is being a christian--
00:16:50.195 --> 00:16:51.697
Jennie: because if i'm not a christian, i need this world to
00:16:51.697 --> 00:16:54.500
Work out.
00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:55.834
I need to hit the marks.
00:16:55.834 --> 00:16:57.202
I have to hit the marks.
00:16:57.202 --> 00:16:58.570
I have to matter.
00:16:58.570 --> 00:17:00.139
I have to make my life count.
00:17:00.139 --> 00:17:02.174
I have to make sure everybody is okay with me, so i have peace.
00:17:02.174 --> 00:17:05.744
I have to try to control my life because this is all there is.
00:17:05.744 --> 00:17:09.615
The beauty of being christian is you get to shift worlds
00:17:09.615 --> 00:17:12.785
And kingdoms.
00:17:12.785 --> 00:17:14.153
You don't have to live under this kingdom.
00:17:14.153 --> 00:17:16.722
I studied--in my preparation for this,
00:17:16.722 --> 00:17:19.291
I studied jesus in the wilderness with the enemy
00:17:19.291 --> 00:17:22.294
Because this is so core spiritual warfare, because
00:17:22.294 --> 00:17:26.632
There's an enemy, he lies, his goal is to kill, steal, and
00:17:26.632 --> 00:17:30.702
Destroy from those that love god.
00:17:30.702 --> 00:17:32.471
And so that's happening underneath the story of all of
00:17:32.471 --> 00:17:35.974
Our lives, whether we're thinking about it or not, and
00:17:35.974 --> 00:17:39.611
That story of the enemy coming for us, he's gonna do it however
00:17:39.611 --> 00:17:44.249
He can.
00:17:44.249 --> 00:17:45.584
But if he shuts down, this is why this matters so much, and if
00:17:45.584 --> 00:17:48.187
Somebody's like, "i don't know if i wanna read about this, this
00:17:48.187 --> 00:17:49.988
Feels dark or heavy" or whatever, i would just say.
00:17:49.988 --> 00:17:52.524
Don't you wanna be free?
00:17:52.524 --> 00:17:53.892
If there is something that is causing you to feel insecure, to
00:17:53.892 --> 00:18:00.499
Miss the joy of a relationship with your kids, to miss the joy
00:18:00.499 --> 00:18:05.070
Of deep connection with other people, wouldn't you wanna know
00:18:05.070 --> 00:18:07.906
What it is?
00:18:07.906 --> 00:18:09.241
And, and so my hope is, yes, okay, i wanna know what it is so
00:18:09.241 --> 00:18:12.578
That i can notice it.
00:18:12.578 --> 00:18:13.912
It doesn't go away overnight.
00:18:13.912 --> 00:18:15.280
I still struggle with this.
00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:16.615
I mean, i have a book launching now and i will be watching the
00:18:16.615 --> 00:18:19.751
Numbers and i will still feel that 12-year-old feeling that i
00:18:19.751 --> 00:18:22.921
Need to perform and did i hit the mark?
00:18:22.921 --> 00:18:24.456
I will still feel those things, but i have somewhere to go
00:18:24.456 --> 00:18:27.259
With it.
00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:28.594
I know what is true of god.
00:18:28.594 --> 00:18:30.028
What is more true of me than whether i hit a mark is that i
00:18:30.028 --> 00:18:34.600
Am loved and accepted and safe because of what jesus did for
00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:38.737
Me, and that's coming back to that.
00:18:38.737 --> 00:18:40.606
I say oftentimes that lies are an invitation.
00:18:40.606 --> 00:18:43.175
They're an invitation to come back to god and what we know to
00:18:43.175 --> 00:18:45.577
Be true of him, and that feels refreshing.
00:18:45.577 --> 00:18:47.813
Rather than beat myself up that i believe these lies, there's
00:18:47.813 --> 00:18:50.549
This freedom and grace to go, "you know, yeah, i struggle
00:18:50.549 --> 00:18:53.719
With that.
00:18:53.719 --> 00:18:55.053
I've struggled with that since i was 12 years old, and i'm
00:18:55.053 --> 00:18:57.723
Working on it," and it just is full of grace that in a reminder
00:18:57.723 --> 00:19:03.529
That i do still need god on a regular basis.
00:19:03.529 --> 00:19:07.933
Kirk: do most of these fears and anxieties that people have, that
00:19:07.933 --> 00:19:12.037
All of us struggle with to one degree or another, do you think
00:19:12.037 --> 00:19:14.740
That it really is all rooted back into who we perceive we
00:19:14.740 --> 00:19:19.611
Actually are and what we're worth?
00:19:19.611 --> 00:19:21.780
Does it come down to our identity?
00:19:21.780 --> 00:19:23.615
Jennie: i think it does.
00:19:23.615 --> 00:19:25.317
I think it certainly comes down to what we believe to be true
00:19:25.317 --> 00:19:28.120
About god, but we can't even get to what we believe about god
00:19:28.120 --> 00:19:32.324
Until we are self-aware enough to know that we need god, right?
00:19:32.324 --> 00:19:36.862
The fear of god is the beginning of all wisdom, yes, but how do
00:19:36.862 --> 00:19:42.034
You fear god?
00:19:42.034 --> 00:19:43.368
When you know you're a sinner.
00:19:43.368 --> 00:19:44.736
When you know you need god.
00:19:44.736 --> 00:19:46.071
Like, when does that start?
00:19:46.071 --> 00:19:47.439
It starts when you realize, oh my gosh, i'm not god and i
00:19:47.439 --> 00:19:49.975
Need help.
00:19:49.975 --> 00:19:51.343
And so, you look at, you know, right now i'm ministering to so
00:19:51.343 --> 00:19:53.812
Many young people, and i just see over and over again, their
00:19:53.812 --> 00:19:56.582
Desperation for god.
00:19:56.582 --> 00:19:59.218
They want god.
00:19:59.218 --> 00:20:00.586
It starts with desperation.
00:20:00.586 --> 00:20:02.187
And so, for us it's like, this isn't--shouldn't be scary, this
00:20:02.187 --> 00:20:05.257
Should be good news that there are parts of us, that from a
00:20:05.257 --> 00:20:08.227
Young age believe something that isn't true.
00:20:08.227 --> 00:20:12.064
Kirk: yeah, maybe their parents told them, maybe they just--
00:20:12.064 --> 00:20:14.600
Jennie: yes, parents, something happened to them.
00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:16.235
Kirk: their heart deceives them, they processed something wrong.
00:20:16.235 --> 00:20:19.271
Jennie: but it's so evil because it's--it means that the enemy
00:20:19.271 --> 00:20:22.241
Came for kids, right?
00:20:22.241 --> 00:20:24.409
It's terrorist activity.
00:20:24.409 --> 00:20:25.744
It's like at five years old, he wanted you to believe that you
00:20:25.744 --> 00:20:29.181
Were worthless.
00:20:29.181 --> 00:20:30.515
Like that is so evil, but we just accept it because it's the
00:20:30.515 --> 00:20:33.151
Way we've always thought, and we don't ever question it or put
00:20:33.151 --> 00:20:36.855
Our thoughts on trial and go, is this even true?
00:20:36.855 --> 00:20:40.192
Kirk: not only are there evil perpetrators external to us that
00:20:40.192 --> 00:20:44.630
Are terrorizing children, that are tormenting adults, but then
00:20:44.630 --> 00:20:49.668
There's the compounding fact of our own internal tormentor,
00:20:49.668 --> 00:20:54.306
Which is a heart that jeremiah says is deceitfully wicked,
00:20:54.306 --> 00:20:58.110
Above all things.
00:20:58.110 --> 00:20:59.444
And so, i mean, i'll deceive myself.
00:20:59.444 --> 00:21:01.780
I don't even need somebody else to deceive me from the outside.
00:21:01.780 --> 00:21:04.850
And so, you have a chapter in your book called, "this is how
00:21:04.850 --> 00:21:08.754
We fight."
00:21:08.754 --> 00:21:10.522
Can you unpack that for us a little bit?
00:21:10.522 --> 00:21:12.591
How do we deal with these things?
00:21:12.591 --> 00:21:13.925
Jennie: yeah, so there's a few things.
00:21:13.925 --> 00:21:15.294
The very first and most important thing is there's a god
00:21:15.294 --> 00:21:18.830
That deeply wants you to believe what is true about you.
00:21:18.830 --> 00:21:21.833
He wants you to know that you are loved.
00:21:21.833 --> 00:21:23.335
He wants you to know you don't have to perform for him.
00:21:23.335 --> 00:21:26.004
He wants you to know that you don't have to control your life
00:21:26.004 --> 00:21:30.042
And that he is in control of all things.
00:21:30.042 --> 00:21:32.377
So, there is a god that the reason we don't have to strive
00:21:32.377 --> 00:21:37.282
Our entire lives to measure up and to be loved and to
00:21:37.282 --> 00:21:41.019
Control is because of him, and he gave us people, and i would
00:21:41.019 --> 00:21:46.358
Say on a regular basis, that is how i heal best, that i will
00:21:46.358 --> 00:21:49.828
Just say to someone, you know, my good friends, they know
00:21:49.828 --> 00:21:51.930
Me well.
00:21:51.930 --> 00:21:53.265
And i'll say, you know what, i think i'm living out of my
00:21:53.265 --> 00:21:55.000
12-year-old fear.
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:56.335
Like i'm sitting here feeling like anxious, like about
00:21:56.335 --> 00:21:59.137
The book.
00:21:59.137 --> 00:22:00.505
I was like, oh--i was telling some friends recently.
00:22:00.505 --> 00:22:02.841
I said, gosh, there's just a lot of pressure.
00:22:02.841 --> 00:22:04.343
My last three books have all hit new york times, and i'm going,
00:22:04.343 --> 00:22:07.679
Like, i don't know how to make that happen.
00:22:07.679 --> 00:22:09.381
I don't know that you can.
00:22:09.381 --> 00:22:10.849
And they laughed and they're like, "jennie, we're gonna quit
00:22:10.849 --> 00:22:13.418
Liking you if you keep making new york times.
00:22:13.418 --> 00:22:15.020
You just can't do that.
00:22:15.020 --> 00:22:16.355
That just isn't how the world works."
00:22:16.355 --> 00:22:17.723
And it was so freeing and we started laughing.
00:22:17.723 --> 00:22:19.224
They were kidding, but it was just like i said it out loud, my
00:22:19.224 --> 00:22:22.461
Fear, and we all laughed about it.
00:22:22.461 --> 00:22:24.296
It's like this is silly.
00:22:24.296 --> 00:22:25.664
We don't--it doesn't matter.
00:22:25.664 --> 00:22:26.998
Like you're--you exist and write to help people, not to hit a
00:22:26.998 --> 00:22:30.902
List, you know, and it just, i think what--we're so slow to say
00:22:30.902 --> 00:22:34.306
Something out loud, and then it's not that big a deal when
00:22:34.306 --> 00:22:37.876
You do it.
00:22:37.876 --> 00:22:39.244
It just is like, oh, it's fine.
00:22:39.244 --> 00:22:40.579
Well, you're gonna be fine, we're gonna be fine.
00:22:40.579 --> 00:22:42.514
The world will go on.
00:22:42.514 --> 00:22:43.882
And i think we hold it in because we're embarrassed, or we
00:22:43.882 --> 00:22:47.319
Think we have a lot of shame around what that lie is, and
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:51.523
That we feel like we can't measure up, or we feel like
00:22:51.523 --> 00:22:54.326
People don't like us, or we feel like, "why am i so helpless?
00:22:54.326 --> 00:22:57.529
I can't get my life together."
00:22:57.529 --> 00:22:58.864
And so, you don't wanna say these things out loud because
00:22:58.864 --> 00:23:00.866
They've just--they feel embarrassing and i would just
00:23:00.866 --> 00:23:03.168
Say, bringing people in is probably the biggest and most
00:23:03.168 --> 00:23:06.438
Helpful way to get free really quickly, where all of a sudden,
00:23:06.438 --> 00:23:09.641
It's disarmed.
00:23:09.641 --> 00:23:11.143
Kirk: bringing people in from the outside who can see things
00:23:11.143 --> 00:23:14.346
That maybe we can't see because we have blind spots or we have
00:23:14.346 --> 00:23:17.249
Fears and anxieties that--
00:23:17.249 --> 00:23:18.717
Jennie: and they've grown so big.
00:23:18.717 --> 00:23:20.085
Kirk: yeah, make us turn our head the other way, we don't
00:23:20.085 --> 00:23:21.753
Wanna look--look at it.
00:23:21.753 --> 00:23:26.191
Speak to how you're able to summon the vulnerability
00:23:26.191 --> 00:23:32.798
Necessary to be able to actually bring people in and talk with
00:23:32.798 --> 00:23:37.135
Them and admit and be transparent about some of
00:23:37.135 --> 00:23:39.004
This stuff.
00:23:39.004 --> 00:23:40.372
Because someone like you, or maybe someone that you know, is
00:23:40.372 --> 00:23:44.409
Just so known for being good at what they do, that's--that is
00:23:44.409 --> 00:23:49.714
Their mo, is to perform and to have stuff together.
00:23:49.714 --> 00:23:52.784
Jennie: yeah, and i would just say it doesn't work.
00:23:52.784 --> 00:23:56.455
So, it's always gonna be empty.
00:23:56.455 --> 00:23:58.924
You can get the mark.
00:23:58.924 --> 00:24:00.258
You can get everybody to like you, possibly, you could get
00:24:00.258 --> 00:24:03.261
Control, you can get the performance and hit the list and
00:24:03.261 --> 00:24:06.331
Do the things that you wanna do and achieve and accomplish and
00:24:06.331 --> 00:24:08.834
Make enough money, and it just never is enough.
00:24:08.834 --> 00:24:12.270
And so to laugh at it, to be--to throw up your hands at it and
00:24:12.270 --> 00:24:16.708
Go, this just isn't what i wanna live for anymore, that is
00:24:16.708 --> 00:24:19.544
So freeing.
00:24:19.544 --> 00:24:20.912
And so, i would just say you have to pay the dues.
00:24:20.912 --> 00:24:23.381
I was just speaking to college students at
00:24:23.381 --> 00:24:25.750
Southeastern university.
00:24:25.750 --> 00:24:27.452
And i just said confess, like, your sin.
00:24:27.452 --> 00:24:31.122
Yell it out.
00:24:31.122 --> 00:24:32.491
I said yell it out.
00:24:32.491 --> 00:24:33.825
They did it, thousands of students, they started
00:24:33.825 --> 00:24:35.327
Yelling out.
00:24:35.327 --> 00:24:36.661
A girl in the back yelled, "abortion!"
00:24:36.661 --> 00:24:38.063
Three guys together yelled, "pornography!"
00:24:38.063 --> 00:24:40.298
I mean, it just started, you know, jumping all over.
00:24:40.298 --> 00:24:43.401
Everybody was yelling it, and it's so brave and it feels like
00:24:43.401 --> 00:24:46.671
Impossible to do that at a christian school where you know
00:24:46.671 --> 00:24:50.375
People are gonna remember that you said that.
00:24:50.375 --> 00:24:53.144
And instead, it was like this freedom fell over the room and
00:24:53.144 --> 00:24:57.015
This joy.
00:24:57.015 --> 00:24:58.350
And so, since then, they can't worsh--stop worshiping god, but
00:24:58.350 --> 00:25:02.287
The price of admittance was them being vulnerable, right?
00:25:02.287 --> 00:25:06.291
And i would just say it is costly, but on the other side of
00:25:06.291 --> 00:25:09.694
It, you never regret it.
00:25:09.694 --> 00:25:11.062
Now, people can be mean and people can reject you, and
00:25:11.062 --> 00:25:14.699
People--yes, all that's true, but i just say, you got the
00:25:14.699 --> 00:25:19.437
Wrong people because the reality is like, we're all human and
00:25:19.437 --> 00:25:23.575
We're all struggling and it feels good to just know, you
00:25:23.575 --> 00:25:26.945
Know what, this is mine, this is my lie, this is what i
00:25:26.945 --> 00:25:29.281
Struggle with.
00:25:29.281 --> 00:25:30.649
And to know your friends, it helps you have compassion
00:25:30.649 --> 00:25:33.618
For them.
00:25:33.618 --> 00:25:35.420
Kirk: if people got one takeaway from your book, what would you
00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:37.989
Want it to be?
00:25:37.989 --> 00:25:39.324
Jennie: grace, that we're all human, that it wasn't just the
00:25:39.324 --> 00:25:42.594
Bible that said that the enemy is a liar and that we
00:25:42.594 --> 00:25:44.963
Believe lies.
00:25:44.963 --> 00:25:46.298
Psych 101 says it too, humanity believes lies.
00:25:46.298 --> 00:25:50.101
And so, it's possible that those negative thoughts you've given
00:25:50.101 --> 00:25:53.438
So much energy to all your life might not be true, and i think
00:25:53.438 --> 00:25:56.174
That's really exciting.
00:25:56.174 --> 00:25:57.642
Kirk: what could be more exciting than than getting rid
00:25:57.642 --> 00:25:59.844
Of those and replacing them and living in the truth?
00:25:59.844 --> 00:26:02.647
Jennie: it's a lot more free and a lot more joyful.
00:26:02.647 --> 00:26:04.883
Kirk: yeah, well, thank you so much.
00:26:04.883 --> 00:26:06.318
Thanks for coming on "takeaways."
00:26:06.318 --> 00:26:07.652
Jennie: thanks for having me.
00:26:07.652 --> 00:26:09.020
Kirk: after the break, bestselling author gary thomas
00:26:09.020 --> 00:26:10.922
Is gonna join us to go even deeper on this subject of
00:26:10.922 --> 00:26:14.225
Replacing lies with the truth, so don't go away.
00:26:14.225 --> 00:26:17.095
♪♪♪
00:26:17.095 --> 00:26:22.634
♪♪♪
00:26:22.970 --> 00:26:28.342
Kirk: my next guest, one of my very favorite guests, is
00:26:30.244 --> 00:26:32.546
Gary thomas.
00:26:32.546 --> 00:26:33.881
He's a teaching pastor and the author of over 21 books that
00:26:33.881 --> 00:26:37.184
Have, together, sold 2 million copies and have been translated
00:26:37.184 --> 00:26:40.954
Into more than a dozen languages.
00:26:40.954 --> 00:26:43.457
His latest is called, "the life you were reborn to live:
00:26:43.457 --> 00:26:47.428
Dismantling 12 lies that rob your intimacy with god."
00:26:47.428 --> 00:26:51.498
Gary, thanks so much for coming back.
00:26:51.498 --> 00:26:52.866
Gary: thanks for having me back, kirk.
00:26:52.866 --> 00:26:54.234
Kirk: i just love having you on "takeaways."
00:26:54.234 --> 00:26:55.736
Gary: love being here.
00:26:55.736 --> 00:26:57.071
Kirk: you know, and i'm so encouraged to hear that you're
00:26:57.071 --> 00:26:58.906
Traveling all over the country, helping to repair marriages and
00:26:58.906 --> 00:27:02.743
Get them back on track, focusing on god.
00:27:02.743 --> 00:27:05.546
That's so important.
00:27:05.546 --> 00:27:06.880
Gary: it's my passion.
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:08.349
Kirk: what inspired you to write this new book, "the life you
00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:11.151
Were reborn to live"?
00:27:11.151 --> 00:27:12.753
Gary: kirk, there are a lot of lies we believe, that just hold
00:27:12.753 --> 00:27:15.989
Us back in our relationship to god.
00:27:15.989 --> 00:27:17.658
Now, you're younger than me, but i think you're old enough to
00:27:17.658 --> 00:27:20.494
Remember some just cultural lies that everybody accepted as true.
00:27:20.494 --> 00:27:24.732
Margarine is better for you than butter.
00:27:24.732 --> 00:27:26.367
Remember that one?
00:27:26.367 --> 00:27:27.735
Kirk: i remember that one.
00:27:27.735 --> 00:27:29.069
Big boldfaced lie. we know that now.
00:27:29.069 --> 00:27:30.437
Gary: my mom bought this monstrosity of a product called
00:27:30.437 --> 00:27:32.373
"i can't believe it's not butter!"
00:27:32.373 --> 00:27:34.041
And for the record, i could, and we now know it was much worse
00:27:34.041 --> 00:27:37.044
For you than butter.
00:27:37.044 --> 00:27:38.379
Or you have to wait an hour after you eat to go swimming.
00:27:38.379 --> 00:27:42.416
Kirk: that's right, my mom would--
00:27:42.416 --> 00:27:43.751
Or i'd sink to the bottom of the pool, my mom would say.
00:27:43.751 --> 00:27:45.486
Gary: no medical science behind that at all, but we had to wait.
00:27:45.486 --> 00:27:48.455
Or cracking your knuckles causes arthritis.
00:27:48.455 --> 00:27:52.192
It doesn't.
00:27:52.192 --> 00:27:53.527
It might cause a divorce.
00:27:53.527 --> 00:27:54.895
I don't know if it's in an agreed stats for this.
00:27:54.895 --> 00:27:56.563
It's not gonna cause arthritis--
00:27:56.563 --> 00:27:57.898
Kirk: i don't know what's worse, snoring or cracking my knuckles
00:27:57.898 --> 00:27:59.366
In the middle of the night.
00:27:59.366 --> 00:28:00.701
Gary: yeah.
00:28:00.701 --> 00:28:02.035
So those, how serious are they, you know, how much margarine do
00:28:02.035 --> 00:28:04.471
We eat?
00:28:04.471 --> 00:28:05.806
We lost a little bit of swim time.
00:28:05.806 --> 00:28:07.174
But the apostle paul warns of spiritually malicious lies that
00:28:07.174 --> 00:28:11.678
Are designed to wreak havoc on our spiritual life.
00:28:11.678 --> 00:28:14.715
He says in romans 12:2, "don't be conformed to the pattern of
00:28:14.715 --> 00:28:18.752
This world."
00:28:18.752 --> 00:28:20.220
This world has an agenda, it has a pattern.
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:22.656
You face this as much as anyone.
00:28:22.656 --> 00:28:24.892
You will think this way, you will say this, you will believe
00:28:24.892 --> 00:28:27.327
This, you will prioritize this.
00:28:27.327 --> 00:28:29.096
It wants to make us good little citizens of the world, so we
00:28:29.096 --> 00:28:33.133
Talk alike, we think alike, we act alike.
00:28:33.133 --> 00:28:36.203
But he says, "no, be transformed," that's the present
00:28:36.203 --> 00:28:39.339
Tense, "by the renewing of your mind."
00:28:39.339 --> 00:28:42.709
That we have to reject the spiritual lies that this world
00:28:42.709 --> 00:28:46.213
Wants us just to accept unthinkingly, margarine is
00:28:46.213 --> 00:28:48.982
Better for you than butter, so that we will go along with the
00:28:48.982 --> 00:28:52.386
World's agenda.
00:28:52.386 --> 00:28:53.754
And so, the life you were reborn to live calls us to be fully
00:28:53.754 --> 00:28:58.792
Reborn, not just getting wet in baptism, but to change the way
00:28:58.792 --> 00:29:03.430
We think.
00:29:03.430 --> 00:29:04.798
And when we change the way we think, we'll change the way
00:29:04.798 --> 00:29:07.134
We act.
00:29:07.134 --> 00:29:08.735
Kirk: i think that's 100% true.
00:29:08.735 --> 00:29:10.070
It's been true in my--in my life.
00:29:10.070 --> 00:29:12.739
How i think determines how i move.
00:29:12.739 --> 00:29:14.741
I got a buddy, ray comfort, who says he's like, if you believe
00:29:14.741 --> 00:29:18.011
You're walking through a minefield and you know where the
00:29:18.011 --> 00:29:21.381
Mines are, that will absolutely determine where you put your
00:29:21.381 --> 00:29:25.285
Feet and how you walk.
00:29:25.285 --> 00:29:27.087
Gary: right, that's right.
00:29:27.087 --> 00:29:28.722
Kirk: and so, that's why we look in the scriptures and someone
00:29:28.722 --> 00:29:31.458
Also showed me that like in philippians or ephesians, paul
00:29:31.458 --> 00:29:34.394
First sort of starts out with right thinking before he moves
00:29:34.394 --> 00:29:37.631
Into right living because our thinking is going to direct
00:29:37.631 --> 00:29:40.767
Our steps.
00:29:40.767 --> 00:29:42.135
Gary: absolutely.
00:29:42.135 --> 00:29:43.470
Kirk: so, if we dismantle these lies, then we've got to replace
00:29:43.470 --> 00:29:45.606
Them with the--with the corrective truths, right?
00:29:45.606 --> 00:29:48.342
Gary: exactly, right.
00:29:48.342 --> 00:29:49.676
Kirk: so, what are--give me three or four of the most common
00:29:49.676 --> 00:29:52.045
And pernicious lies we believe, besides margarine is better
00:29:52.045 --> 00:29:56.149
Than butter.
00:29:56.149 --> 00:29:57.518
Gary: well, one that has really gotten some traction from people
00:29:57.518 --> 00:30:00.087
And my life has changed reading an ancient essay by
00:30:00.087 --> 00:30:02.956
Henry drummond.
00:30:02.956 --> 00:30:04.324
I say ancient, 300 years ago, called "pax vobiscum" where he
00:30:04.324 --> 00:30:07.094
Talked about the path to true peace.
00:30:07.094 --> 00:30:09.930
Dismantling restlessness.
00:30:09.930 --> 00:30:11.498
The lie is this: we think peace comes from a process of removing
00:30:11.498 --> 00:30:16.837
Everything that threatens our peace.
00:30:16.837 --> 00:30:19.473
And he would say peace is relational and trying to fix
00:30:19.473 --> 00:30:23.944
Everything in our lives so that we can have peace is what pushes
00:30:23.944 --> 00:30:26.747
Peace away because they'll never all be true.
00:30:26.747 --> 00:30:29.616
Kirk: i've never been able to fix all the things.
00:30:29.616 --> 00:30:32.052
I've never gotten my wife's to-do list done.
00:30:32.052 --> 00:30:34.421
I've never removed all of the splinters.
00:30:34.421 --> 00:30:39.026
Gary: we think we need a problem-free life, a pain-free
00:30:39.026 --> 00:30:41.795
Life, no enemies, a certain level of financial comfort.
00:30:41.795 --> 00:30:45.899
For an increasingly large amount of people, you've seen this
00:30:45.899 --> 00:30:48.569
Online, they lose their minds if the person they voted for isn't
00:30:48.569 --> 00:30:51.805
In the white house or controlling congress.
00:30:51.805 --> 00:30:53.840
They have no peace, and so i think to get peace, i've got to
00:30:53.840 --> 00:30:56.343
Make all of these things happen, and they never will.
00:30:56.343 --> 00:30:59.046
But when peace is relational, when jesus says, "my peace, i
00:30:59.046 --> 00:31:02.215
Give you, my peace i live--leave with you, don't let your hearts
00:31:02.215 --> 00:31:05.218
Be troubled."
00:31:05.218 --> 00:31:06.553
The image i like to give, coming from texas, i'm not in texas
00:31:06.553 --> 00:31:09.856
Now, but i was for so long.
00:31:09.856 --> 00:31:11.425
Imagine a cat 5 hurricane hitting galveston, and you do
00:31:11.425 --> 00:31:15.228
What you think you're supposed to do, you go into an interior
00:31:15.228 --> 00:31:17.364
Room, you climb into the bathtub, but literally, the
00:31:17.364 --> 00:31:20.901
Walls are being blown out, the roof is lifted off your house,
00:31:20.901 --> 00:31:24.638
Furniture is flying, and you're like, literally nothing left to
00:31:24.638 --> 00:31:30.177
Hold on to.
00:31:30.177 --> 00:31:31.578
The helplessness, the fear, you hear the sounds, and imagine
00:31:31.578 --> 00:31:35.415
Jesus walking into the room and maybe he grabs your cheeks with
00:31:35.415 --> 00:31:39.586
His hands and looks you in the eye and says, "it's okay.
00:31:39.586 --> 00:31:41.955
I've got you."
00:31:41.955 --> 00:31:43.290
I like to picture the 10-foot tall jesus who comes up behind
00:31:43.290 --> 00:31:46.226
Me and wraps his arms around me, and when he does that, i'm gonna
00:31:46.226 --> 00:31:49.863
Open my eyes and watch the show, you know.
00:31:49.863 --> 00:31:52.499
I didn't know that cows could fly, you know, i didn't know
00:31:52.499 --> 00:31:54.735
Horses could fly, which you know now that you live in a more
00:31:54.735 --> 00:31:58.138
Rural place.
00:31:58.138 --> 00:31:59.506
Kirk: in tornado alley here in tennessee.
00:31:59.506 --> 00:32:00.841
Gary: but how foolish would it be to freak out with fear if
00:32:00.841 --> 00:32:07.014
Jesus has his arms around me?
00:32:07.014 --> 00:32:09.416
Now, i just want the listeners to pause for a second,
00:32:09.416 --> 00:32:11.184
The viewers.
00:32:11.184 --> 00:32:12.786
That's not a metaphor.
00:32:12.786 --> 00:32:14.287
God says he's got us.
00:32:14.287 --> 00:32:16.323
Jesus's arms are around us.
00:32:16.323 --> 00:32:18.792
How foolish is it to think that regardless of the chaos around
00:32:18.792 --> 00:32:23.263
Us, that there's a place for anxiety and fear when jesus is
00:32:23.263 --> 00:32:27.901
Holding on?
00:32:27.901 --> 00:32:29.269
Because peace is relational, it's not situational.
00:32:29.269 --> 00:32:32.839
Kirk: man, that is so good that we've got to understand that if
00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:35.509
We don't get that, we're never gonna find peace.
00:32:35.509 --> 00:32:39.312
Gary: no, and we'll chase it away trying to get peace.
00:32:39.312 --> 00:32:41.014
Kirk: and i like the way you phrased it, peace is relational.
00:32:41.014 --> 00:32:42.816
I mean, i think of that people have told me peace is a person.
00:32:42.816 --> 00:32:45.919
We have the prince of peace, it is jesus, but what good is it if
00:32:45.919 --> 00:32:49.256
We don't really lock in to that relationship with the one who is
00:32:49.256 --> 00:32:55.195
Our perfect peace?
00:32:55.195 --> 00:32:56.530
Gary: and it's so essential.
00:32:56.530 --> 00:32:57.864
I don't think a lot of christians realize how often
00:32:57.864 --> 00:33:00.100
Peace is promised in the old testament.
00:33:00.100 --> 00:33:01.735
When the messiah comes, then we'll finally have peace.
00:33:01.735 --> 00:33:05.238
And so when the angels announced jesus is coming to the
00:33:05.238 --> 00:33:07.741
Shepherds, what do they say?
00:33:07.741 --> 00:33:09.543
"peace on earth, goodwill to men."
00:33:09.543 --> 00:33:13.447
And the new testament writers talked about peace, 19 of 21 new
00:33:13.447 --> 00:33:19.453
Testament epistles begin or end with the blessing of peace.
00:33:19.453 --> 00:33:23.690
When they thought of the gospel, they didn't just think
00:33:23.690 --> 00:33:26.159
Of salvation.
00:33:26.159 --> 00:33:27.527
Salvation is important.
00:33:27.527 --> 00:33:29.830
But we're in a culture that increasingly doesn't believe
00:33:29.830 --> 00:33:34.000
In salvation.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:35.335
I know a man, he's delightful to talk with.
00:33:35.335 --> 00:33:37.270
He's jewish, loves to have conversations.
00:33:37.270 --> 00:33:39.973
He asked me, "gary, why do you christians feel like you have to
00:33:39.973 --> 00:33:42.476
Share your faith all the time?"
00:33:42.476 --> 00:33:44.044
And i just talked about the joy we have in jesus.
00:33:44.044 --> 00:33:46.480
We want others to have the opportunity, and then we got to
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.349
Heaven and hell, and he was very honest, he says, "yeah, when i
00:33:49.349 --> 00:33:54.755
Look at all the world religions.
00:33:54.755 --> 00:33:56.923
If you believe in hell, jesus is the way to go."
00:33:56.923 --> 00:34:00.527
I just kind of laughed, go, "you think?" but he doesn't
00:34:00.527 --> 00:34:03.830
Believe in hell, so it's not compelling for him.
00:34:03.830 --> 00:34:06.900
And so, when we're just talking about salvation, a future hope,
00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:10.737
Which is valuable and precious to us, but not present peace,
00:34:10.737 --> 00:34:14.941
People don't see the difference our faith makes.
00:34:14.941 --> 00:34:18.745
They don't realize that jesus has an impact on our life
00:34:18.745 --> 00:34:21.615
Right now.
00:34:21.615 --> 00:34:22.949
It's not just about what happens when we die.
00:34:22.949 --> 00:34:25.385
Kirk: yeah, people are looking for peace.
00:34:25.385 --> 00:34:27.420
People are so filled with anxiety, and we create so much
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:29.823
Of our own anxiety and our own frustrations.
00:34:29.823 --> 00:34:35.028
Do you think that the reason that we experience so much
00:34:35.028 --> 00:34:37.464
Anxiety, is because of the unique culture that we live
00:34:37.464 --> 00:34:41.568
In today?
00:34:41.568 --> 00:34:42.903
I mean, do we live in an age that is more fraught with
00:34:42.903 --> 00:34:45.972
Anxiety and frustration, and is it harder to pursue christ in
00:34:45.972 --> 00:34:50.544
This culture?
00:34:50.544 --> 00:34:51.878
Gary: i mean, you talk to any counselor, you talk to any
00:34:51.878 --> 00:34:53.480
Teacher, any researcher, they would say anxiety is over the
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:56.383
Top, but when the old testament said, hang on, peace is coming,
00:34:56.383 --> 00:35:00.821
Isaiah talks a lot about the coming peace.
00:35:00.821 --> 00:35:03.156
Think about the old testament world, kirk.
00:35:03.156 --> 00:35:06.159
Any moment another nation could take everything you own.
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:10.130
Kirk: oh yeah.
00:35:10.130 --> 00:35:11.464
Gary: it could kill you and destroy your family.
00:35:11.464 --> 00:35:12.833
There could be famine.
00:35:12.833 --> 00:35:14.167
Kirk: they had their problems.
00:35:14.167 --> 00:35:15.535
Gary: there would be drought.
00:35:15.535 --> 00:35:16.870
There would be disease with no medical care.
00:35:16.870 --> 00:35:18.238
There weren't antibiotics.
00:35:18.238 --> 00:35:19.573
They couldn't cure cancers.
00:35:19.573 --> 00:35:20.941
All of these things that we face, they were surround--and
00:35:20.941 --> 00:35:23.076
Wild animals, right?
00:35:23.076 --> 00:35:24.611
They were surrounded by real fears that we don't face and yet
00:35:24.611 --> 00:35:29.616
We live with more anxiety today than ever before.
00:35:29.616 --> 00:35:33.687
And that's where i think christians can stand as a
00:35:33.687 --> 00:35:36.723
Witness to the reality, presence, and the power of god
00:35:36.723 --> 00:35:41.494
When we can have peace even in the midst of chaos.
00:35:41.494 --> 00:35:45.432
Kirk: i love how in your book you encourage christians to be
00:35:45.432 --> 00:35:48.301
More spiritually adventurous and not require total control.
00:35:48.301 --> 00:35:54.674
How do we do that?
00:35:54.674 --> 00:35:56.109
Gary: well, jesus talks about this when he says the wind blows
00:35:56.109 --> 00:36:00.413
Where it pleases, you hear it sound, you don't know where it's
00:36:00.413 --> 00:36:02.816
Come from, and here's the key.
00:36:02.816 --> 00:36:04.784
So it is with everyone born of the spirit, that when we're led
00:36:04.784 --> 00:36:09.322
By god, this holy spirit is real, he's active, he will bring
00:36:09.322 --> 00:36:13.960
Ministry opportunities to us, and we're so busy trying to
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:17.297
Control everything in our life that we lose
00:36:17.297 --> 00:36:20.100
Spiritual adventure.
00:36:20.100 --> 00:36:21.835
And what i found is this devastates marriages because
00:36:21.835 --> 00:36:25.505
Couples get bored, they're living for themself, their own
00:36:25.505 --> 00:36:28.441
Comfort, instead of waking up and saying, how might god use
00:36:28.441 --> 00:36:32.245
Us today?
00:36:32.245 --> 00:36:33.580
And in raising our kids instead of focusing on don't do this,
00:36:33.580 --> 00:36:36.383
Don't look at that, don't eat that, don't drink that, don't
00:36:36.383 --> 00:36:38.551
Smoke that, say, hey kids, how do you think i might wanna use
00:36:38.551 --> 00:36:41.354
You today?
00:36:41.354 --> 00:36:42.722
How could the wind blow in a way you can't control it, you can't
00:36:42.722 --> 00:36:45.525
Make it happen, but somebody you can invite for lunch, a teacher
00:36:45.525 --> 00:36:48.695
You can encourage, someone that you can really bless with the
00:36:48.695 --> 00:36:52.265
Power of god.
00:36:52.265 --> 00:36:53.600
When a family lives for spiritual adventure, that's
00:36:53.600 --> 00:36:57.070
Where christianity takes off.
00:36:57.070 --> 00:36:59.139
And as one of the great writers said, the reason if we're bored
00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:03.543
With our faith, god probably is too.
00:37:03.543 --> 00:37:07.080
We're trying to control everything.
00:37:07.080 --> 00:37:08.448
We're not living with spiritual adventure.
00:37:08.448 --> 00:37:11.718
Kirk: man, i love this. i love this.
00:37:11.718 --> 00:37:13.086
I wanna get into some more of these lies and some truths that
00:37:13.086 --> 00:37:16.022
We can replace them with right after the break.
00:37:16.022 --> 00:37:18.391
When we come back, we're gonna talk with gary about how an
00:37:18.391 --> 00:37:20.860
Entitlement mentality may be the greatest spiritual trap of our
00:37:20.860 --> 00:37:25.131
Age and what we can do about it.
00:37:25.131 --> 00:37:26.766
So, stay with us.
00:37:26.766 --> 00:37:28.101
♪♪♪
00:37:28.101 --> 00:37:33.473
♪♪♪
00:37:33.582 --> 00:37:38.954
Kirk: we're back with teaching pastor and author and my friend,
00:37:41.190 --> 00:37:43.592
Gary thomas, sharing his insights from his new book, "the
00:37:43.592 --> 00:37:47.162
Life you were reborn to live."
00:37:47.162 --> 00:37:50.566
I really like going through these lies that we can all
00:37:50.566 --> 00:37:52.534
Relate to and watching you dismantle them and replace them
00:37:52.534 --> 00:37:56.505
With life-giving truths.
00:37:56.505 --> 00:37:58.006
So, we live in a time where depression is an all-time high,
00:37:58.006 --> 00:38:01.276
Suicide rates are just shocking, and there are some people who
00:38:01.276 --> 00:38:05.247
Just believe that living life alone and isolated is
00:38:05.247 --> 00:38:08.150
Just better.
00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:09.518
I just don't do well--i don't play well with others.
00:38:09.518 --> 00:38:11.520
I just don't like people.
00:38:11.520 --> 00:38:13.856
Why is that not a good thing to believe?
00:38:13.856 --> 00:38:16.158
Gary: well, it would be easy for me to fall into that lie.
00:38:16.158 --> 00:38:18.760
I'm an introvert.
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:20.128
I don't feel like i need people, but that's sort of like a person
00:38:20.128 --> 00:38:22.931
Who lives indoors and thinks they don't need vitamin d.
00:38:22.931 --> 00:38:26.068
It really does impact your health, emotionally, physically,
00:38:26.068 --> 00:38:30.372
And spiritually.
00:38:30.372 --> 00:38:31.707
We need relationships, and i've added, as an introvert, i like
00:38:31.707 --> 00:38:35.644
The spiritual disciplines of solitude and meditation and
00:38:35.644 --> 00:38:40.682
Bible study.
00:38:40.682 --> 00:38:42.050
I've added spiritual conversation to that, where
00:38:42.050 --> 00:38:44.453
Every day, i wanna connect with somebody in a significant way
00:38:44.453 --> 00:38:48.957
To be inspired, to encourage them, to be encouraged.
00:38:48.957 --> 00:38:52.828
There's a fascinating study that harvard's been doing for like 80
00:38:52.828 --> 00:38:56.498
Years now, and they basically found that for mental health and
00:38:56.498 --> 00:39:00.269
Physical health, just like the three rules of real estate are
00:39:00.269 --> 00:39:05.641
Location, location, location.
00:39:05.641 --> 00:39:07.376
For our health, it's relationships,
00:39:07.376 --> 00:39:09.912
Relationships, relationships.
00:39:09.912 --> 00:39:12.314
And so many of the scriptures assume that we're in a
00:39:12.314 --> 00:39:16.285
Community, when paul says to, "put on compassion, kindness,
00:39:16.285 --> 00:39:22.024
Gentleness, patience, and love," that's colossians 3.
00:39:22.024 --> 00:39:25.560
I can't do that in isolation.
00:39:25.560 --> 00:39:27.462
I can't be compassionate.
00:39:27.462 --> 00:39:29.064
I can't be kind on my own.
00:39:29.064 --> 00:39:31.166
I can't be patient if i'm not around somebody that's trying
00:39:31.166 --> 00:39:33.669
My patience.
00:39:33.669 --> 00:39:35.003
So, the bible tries to push us in, and i tell a story there
00:39:35.003 --> 00:39:39.107
About in starbucks, when i go to work, i would try to find the
00:39:39.107 --> 00:39:42.044
Faraway corner, turn my back, and let everything be behind me.
00:39:42.044 --> 00:39:46.715
And this delightful gentleman that would rearrange the
00:39:46.715 --> 00:39:49.618
Furniture, so he turns his chair out, and you can't go by him or
00:39:49.618 --> 00:39:54.556
Out without him being the center to shake your hand, to give you
00:39:54.556 --> 00:39:58.226
A hug, and a word of encouragement.
00:39:58.226 --> 00:39:59.895
I thought, you know what?
00:39:59.895 --> 00:40:01.296
Us introverts need a time to get away, but we also needed time to
00:40:01.296 --> 00:40:05.267
Turn our chair out and be a part of the world.
00:40:05.267 --> 00:40:10.272
Kirk: you've written books that have been so valuable to couples
00:40:10.272 --> 00:40:16.111
And their marriage, "sacred marriage" being one of
00:40:16.111 --> 00:40:19.514
Our favorites.
00:40:19.514 --> 00:40:21.483
What are some of the lies that tend to land in a marriage that
00:40:21.483 --> 00:40:26.955
Impact marriages negatively?
00:40:26.955 --> 00:40:29.758
Gary: i think a chapter that surprised people in this book is
00:40:29.758 --> 00:40:32.828
When i talk about the idolatry of the family, putting
00:40:32.828 --> 00:40:36.064
Family first.
00:40:36.064 --> 00:40:38.133
Now, i've devoted my life to help marriages draw closer to
00:40:38.133 --> 00:40:42.204
Encourage parents to be more engaged with their children.
00:40:42.204 --> 00:40:46.274
But kirk, it's shocking how jesus says that sometimes faith
00:40:46.274 --> 00:40:50.012
Will split families apart.
00:40:50.012 --> 00:40:52.147
When he says a mother-in-law will be turned against her
00:40:52.147 --> 00:40:54.883
Daughter-in-law, a parent against their child, a child
00:40:54.883 --> 00:40:58.387
Against their parent, and i've even had to change some of the
00:40:58.387 --> 00:41:00.989
Things i used to teach.
00:41:00.989 --> 00:41:02.357
I used to say the most important thing a man can do is to raise
00:41:02.357 --> 00:41:06.495
His children.
00:41:06.495 --> 00:41:07.829
Now, and i think that is way up there, and i think we should be
00:41:07.829 --> 00:41:10.999
Engaged in that.
00:41:10.999 --> 00:41:12.367
But i would just ask this question, what was the name of
00:41:12.367 --> 00:41:15.470
Moses's son?
00:41:15.470 --> 00:41:18.740
I asked people, i could say, okay, it starts with a g.
00:41:18.740 --> 00:41:21.209
It doesn't help anybody. it's gershom, right?
00:41:21.209 --> 00:41:23.779
Now, he may have been incredible, he may have had a
00:41:23.779 --> 00:41:26.181
Huge impact on history.
00:41:26.181 --> 00:41:27.649
We don't know anything about him other than his name.
00:41:27.649 --> 00:41:30.252
Would we really say that the most important thing for moses
00:41:30.252 --> 00:41:34.589
Was giving birth to gershom?
00:41:34.589 --> 00:41:37.392
I'm not sure the bible says that.
00:41:37.392 --> 00:41:38.894
And so in the new testament, when the greatest thing a woman
00:41:38.894 --> 00:41:42.864
Could imagine was being a mother of the messiah,
00:41:42.864 --> 00:41:45.534
And a woman calls out to jesus, "blessed is the womb that bore
00:41:45.534 --> 00:41:49.538
You and the breast that nurse you,"
00:41:49.538 --> 00:41:51.940
And what did jesus say?
00:41:51.940 --> 00:41:53.742
"blessed rather are those who hear the word of god and obey
00:41:53.742 --> 00:41:58.380
It," and jesus is saying it's a wonderful thing to have an
00:41:58.380 --> 00:42:01.249
Earthly family.
00:42:01.249 --> 00:42:02.617
It's more important to be a part of god's spiritual family.
00:42:02.617 --> 00:42:06.688
And i've seen when we made family an idolatry, we miss some
00:42:06.688 --> 00:42:10.525
Of the spiritual elements that will draw our family together.
00:42:10.525 --> 00:42:13.962
I've seen some parents and grandparents deny truths of
00:42:13.962 --> 00:42:17.399
Scripture trying to keep access with their kids, and they're not
00:42:17.399 --> 00:42:21.436
Serving their family when they do that.
00:42:21.436 --> 00:42:23.672
They're actually hurting their family.
00:42:23.672 --> 00:42:26.775
And so, while we wanna devote ourselves to our family, build
00:42:26.775 --> 00:42:30.212
Up families, i'm no less enthusiastic about my
00:42:30.212 --> 00:42:32.948
Family now.
00:42:32.948 --> 00:42:34.316
But i believe putting jesus first helps me to love my family
00:42:34.316 --> 00:42:38.320
More and better.
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:39.688
Kirk: amen, amen.
00:42:39.688 --> 00:42:41.022
That's a good word.
00:42:41.022 --> 00:42:42.390
How about the attitude of apathy toward the church today?
00:42:42.390 --> 00:42:47.262
Because there are those who have been traumatized by church
00:42:47.262 --> 00:42:49.898
People, truly injured by those who ought to be representing
00:42:49.898 --> 00:42:54.002
Christ and instead they're representing satan, at least in
00:42:54.002 --> 00:42:57.005
Their actions.
00:42:57.005 --> 00:42:59.241
Is it okay to just bail on church?
00:42:59.241 --> 00:43:00.976
Gary: no, it's not.
00:43:00.976 --> 00:43:02.310
The church is christ's bride.
00:43:02.310 --> 00:43:04.813
We don't love the church because it's perfect.
00:43:04.813 --> 00:43:07.149
We love the church because christ is perfect, and he loves
00:43:07.149 --> 00:43:10.185
The church and calls it his bride.
00:43:10.185 --> 00:43:12.721
I tell this story of world war ii, when czechoslovakian
00:43:12.721 --> 00:43:16.992
Resistance fighters parachuted into prague,
00:43:16.992 --> 00:43:19.794
Their goal was to assassinate general heydrich.
00:43:19.794 --> 00:43:22.564
He was third in command in the nazi regime, and they wanted the
00:43:22.564 --> 00:43:25.534
World to know, "they have our land.
00:43:25.534 --> 00:43:28.036
They don't have our heart," and they knew they wouldn't escape,
00:43:28.036 --> 00:43:30.238
And and none of them did, because the nazis were ruthless,
00:43:30.238 --> 00:43:33.708
And they would run them down, so they passed out cyanide tablets.
00:43:33.708 --> 00:43:37.212
And they said, "our mission isn't to get home safely.
00:43:37.212 --> 00:43:40.582
Our mission is to kill heydrich," and everyone that
00:43:40.582 --> 00:43:45.086
Tried to do that, they were successful, they were either
00:43:45.086 --> 00:43:48.056
Killed or they had to take the cyanide tablets, 'cause they
00:43:48.056 --> 00:43:50.625
Knew if they were captured, they'd be tortured so
00:43:50.625 --> 00:43:53.094
Mercilessly that they would give up the rest of the
00:43:53.094 --> 00:43:55.797
Resistance movement.
00:43:55.797 --> 00:43:57.465
And i just wanna ask christians: is our pursuit and passion for
00:43:57.465 --> 00:44:01.703
The kingdom of god as strong as the czechoslovakian resistance
00:44:01.703 --> 00:44:06.341
Fighters was to their freedom and country?
00:44:06.341 --> 00:44:09.978
If they would sacrifice for their country, will we sacrifice
00:44:09.978 --> 00:44:13.915
For our heavenly king?
00:44:13.915 --> 00:44:16.384
And we have this mercenary attitude.
00:44:16.384 --> 00:44:18.253
I worked with a guy in hong kong, he had me come out
00:44:18.253 --> 00:44:21.323
And speak.
00:44:21.323 --> 00:44:22.657
He said, "the difficulty in hong kong is that hong kong is sort
00:44:22.657 --> 00:44:25.460
Of like the financial engine of asia, and guys would come in for
00:44:25.460 --> 00:44:29.931
Two or three years, suck all of the money they could, and then
00:44:29.931 --> 00:44:33.735
Go home to where they wanted to live."
00:44:33.735 --> 00:44:35.670
It was just--and he said, "i couldn't--
00:44:35.670 --> 00:44:37.505
I couldn't get them to care about the city.
00:44:37.505 --> 00:44:39.741
I couldn't care for them to pray and to spend time.
00:44:39.741 --> 00:44:42.444
They just, give me my money and let me get out of here."
00:44:42.444 --> 00:44:45.747
And so, they're sucking the marrow out of it.
00:44:45.747 --> 00:44:47.983
Paul's attitude was, "i will donate my blood for the health
00:44:47.983 --> 00:44:51.987
Of the church," and that's the attitude we should have.
00:44:51.987 --> 00:44:55.490
He says to the colossians, "i'm working so hard for many of you
00:44:55.490 --> 00:44:58.526
I've never met."
00:44:58.526 --> 00:44:59.894
Because they were a part of the church, paul worked hard for
00:44:59.894 --> 00:45:04.099
Their behalf.
00:45:04.099 --> 00:45:06.268
You can't describe paul without two things.
00:45:06.268 --> 00:45:08.603
I work hard for the church, and i'm a servant of the church.
00:45:08.603 --> 00:45:12.140
I don't believe we can live a faithful christian life if we're
00:45:12.140 --> 00:45:16.845
Not as committed to the church as paul was.
00:45:16.845 --> 00:45:21.616
Kirk: one of the other lines that you talk about in the book
00:45:21.616 --> 00:45:23.351
Is this entitlement mentality, right?
00:45:23.351 --> 00:45:25.654
"i'm entitled to this stuff.
00:45:25.654 --> 00:45:27.355
I deserve it.
00:45:27.355 --> 00:45:28.690
I'm worth it.
00:45:28.690 --> 00:45:30.025
I'm awesome. give it to me."
00:45:30.025 --> 00:45:31.393
Gary: yes, that was a hard one for me because i would have
00:45:31.393 --> 00:45:34.195
Never thought of myself entitled.
00:45:34.195 --> 00:45:36.665
And then i realized how often i am.
00:45:36.665 --> 00:45:39.534
Entitlement thinking is, how could god allow this to happen?
00:45:39.534 --> 00:45:42.337
I've tithed, i've done this or whatnot.
00:45:42.337 --> 00:45:44.239
How could this happen?
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:46.374
The truth is that we've already been rescued from more than
00:45:46.374 --> 00:45:49.210
We deserve.
00:45:49.210 --> 00:45:50.545
When you look at what scripture says, that we deserve separation
00:45:50.545 --> 00:45:54.549
From god, we deserve to face the wrath of god because of
00:45:54.549 --> 00:45:57.852
Our sins.
00:45:57.852 --> 00:45:59.187
The bible is clear that struggle with sin will be ongoing, that's
00:45:59.187 --> 00:46:02.057
Romans 7, 1 corinthians 15 says we're gonna face sickness and
00:46:02.057 --> 00:46:06.895
Death if jesus doesn't return.
00:46:06.895 --> 00:46:09.831
Genesis 3 tells us that relationships will be hard, but
00:46:09.831 --> 00:46:13.835
We think that we give our lot in with jesus, that everything is
00:46:13.835 --> 00:46:17.872
Supposed to be easy, and that makes us forget what we've been
00:46:17.872 --> 00:46:21.376
Rescued from.
00:46:21.376 --> 00:46:23.044
I don't--i don't deserve god's favor.
00:46:23.044 --> 00:46:25.847
I don't deserve what jesus did for me on the cross.
00:46:25.847 --> 00:46:28.416
I don't deserve the eternal hope i have because i'm gonna spend
00:46:28.416 --> 00:46:32.387
Eternity with god.
00:46:32.387 --> 00:46:33.988
I don't deserve the presence of the holy spirit that will
00:46:33.988 --> 00:46:36.925
Convict me if i'm gonna start to do stupid things.
00:46:36.925 --> 00:46:40.395
I don't deserve to open up god's word and have the spirit make it
00:46:40.395 --> 00:46:43.832
Come alive in my hands.
00:46:43.832 --> 00:46:46.868
And so, if god does nothing else for me than what he's already
00:46:46.868 --> 00:46:51.840
Done, the rescue through jesus, he's treated me better than
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:56.511
I deserve.
00:46:56.511 --> 00:46:57.846
And my wife, lisa, that you've met, i love this phrase, she
00:46:57.846 --> 00:47:00.648
Goes, "instead of entitlement, we should have an attitude
00:47:00.648 --> 00:47:04.252
Of astonishment."
00:47:04.252 --> 00:47:06.855
And i love this, we should be astonished at how good god has
00:47:06.855 --> 00:47:11.726
Already been.
00:47:11.726 --> 00:47:13.094
This--lord, i can't believe you're so good to me, because
00:47:13.094 --> 00:47:16.564
When entitlement drops, happiness rises.
00:47:16.564 --> 00:47:19.834
It really is the path to a more joyful life.
00:47:19.834 --> 00:47:22.771
Kirk: your last chapter is entitled, "dismantling
00:47:22.771 --> 00:47:25.874
Complacent ignorance: learn the value of wisdom."
00:47:25.874 --> 00:47:29.611
Unpack that one for us.
00:47:29.611 --> 00:47:31.146
Gary: this is where i just don't think we believe what
00:47:31.146 --> 00:47:32.647
Scripture says.
00:47:32.647 --> 00:47:34.015
Proverbs 16:16 says, "wisdom is better than gold.
00:47:34.015 --> 00:47:37.519
And understanding is better than silver."
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:39.921
I'm just saying as a pastor for a long time, i think people
00:47:39.921 --> 00:47:42.657
Think, "i'm gonna have a better life if i'm earnestly crawling
00:47:42.657 --> 00:47:45.660
Toward my retirement number, not earnestly trying to
00:47:45.660 --> 00:47:48.997
Become wiser.
00:47:48.997 --> 00:47:50.331
I'm gonna have a better life if i look younger than i am, rather
00:47:50.331 --> 00:47:52.901
Than trying to become wiser than i am."
00:47:52.901 --> 00:47:55.470
Or i think with the younger people, "i'll have a better life
00:47:55.470 --> 00:47:58.773
If i spend more time entertaining myself than in
00:47:58.773 --> 00:48:02.076
Training my mind."
00:48:02.076 --> 00:48:03.445
The scripture is clear, you will have the best life, you will be
00:48:03.445 --> 00:48:06.014
Exalted, you will have a garland around your head if you make
00:48:06.014 --> 00:48:09.751
Pursuing wisdom a bigger passion in your life.
00:48:09.751 --> 00:48:14.088
We think we know enough, because you can understand the gospel in
00:48:14.088 --> 00:48:17.292
Five minutes, but wisdom says, "i'm not trying to impress
00:48:17.292 --> 00:48:20.662
People, i can serve people."
00:48:20.662 --> 00:48:23.064
And if we just trust god that the pursuit of wisdom should be
00:48:23.064 --> 00:48:26.434
One of the main pursuits of our life over trying to get richer,
00:48:26.434 --> 00:48:31.239
Trying to look younger and entertaining ourselves, we will
00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:34.375
Have the most fulfilled lives when it's at its end.
00:48:34.375 --> 00:48:37.045
Kirk: man, these are so important.
00:48:37.045 --> 00:48:38.880
These are so impactful to not only the way we think, but what
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:42.851
We think about god, what we think about ourselves, and how
00:48:42.851 --> 00:48:45.753
We end up living.
00:48:45.753 --> 00:48:47.188
And, so i'm--i've got to continue to do this.
00:48:47.188 --> 00:48:50.925
I know every day of my life is not just cave to the patterns of
00:48:50.925 --> 00:48:55.563
This world and its thinking, but completely transform my
00:48:55.563 --> 00:49:00.134
Thinking so that it lines up with the way that god thinks, so
00:49:00.134 --> 00:49:04.405
I can start to live and love like jesus.
00:49:04.405 --> 00:49:07.175
Man, this is so great.
00:49:07.175 --> 00:49:08.576
If there was just one takeaway you want people to get from your
00:49:08.576 --> 00:49:11.212
Book, what is it?
00:49:11.212 --> 00:49:12.814
Gary: well, i would say the freedom that comes from getting
00:49:12.814 --> 00:49:16.017
Rid of the lies, and the joy and intimacy that comes from
00:49:16.017 --> 00:49:19.487
Embracing the other truth.
00:49:19.487 --> 00:49:21.289
It really is a book of you were reborn to live a better life
00:49:21.289 --> 00:49:26.394
Than you realize, and a better life perhaps than you're living.
00:49:26.394 --> 00:49:30.665
Kirk: gary, thanks so much.
00:49:30.665 --> 00:49:32.033
Thanks for writing this book and thanks for this conversation.
00:49:32.033 --> 00:49:33.635
Gary: thanks for having me, kirk.
00:49:33.635 --> 00:49:35.103
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:49:35.103 --> 00:49:37.972
♪♪♪
00:49:37.972 --> 00:49:43.344
♪♪♪
00:49:44.014 --> 00:49:49.386
Kirk: today's conversations get to the root of what we're all
00:49:51.288 --> 00:49:54.324
Dealing with, our thoughts, anxiety, and where we look
00:49:54.324 --> 00:49:58.328
For peace.
00:49:58.328 --> 00:49:59.663
I spoke with jennie allen and gary thomas about the lies we
00:49:59.663 --> 00:50:02.366
Believe and how working through them leads to freedom.
00:50:02.366 --> 00:50:06.503
Let's take a look at a few takeaways.
00:50:06.503 --> 00:50:09.006
Put your thoughts on trial.
00:50:09.006 --> 00:50:11.775
Jennie explained that many of us carry a core lie from childhood.
00:50:11.775 --> 00:50:17.214
"i'm helpless, or i'm worthless, or i'm unlovable," and these can
00:50:17.214 --> 00:50:22.553
Show up subtly, like a low-grade fever, pushing us to strive, to
00:50:22.553 --> 00:50:28.325
Control and seek approval.
00:50:28.325 --> 00:50:31.395
But the work is identifying the lie, and then taking the cloak
00:50:31.395 --> 00:50:36.366
Off of it.
00:50:36.366 --> 00:50:37.734
We've got to name it.
00:50:37.734 --> 00:50:39.069
Why does that matter?
00:50:39.069 --> 00:50:40.437
She says, "because we can't get to know god until we are
00:50:40.437 --> 00:50:43.607
Self-aware enough to know why we need him."
00:50:43.607 --> 00:50:48.011
Bring people in, don't do this alone.
00:50:48.011 --> 00:50:53.016
We all have blind spots.
00:50:53.016 --> 00:50:54.351
Think about it, if we don't see the lie, we can't replace it
00:50:54.351 --> 00:50:57.621
With the truth.
00:50:57.621 --> 00:50:59.056
She said, "the price of admittance is vulnerability."
00:50:59.056 --> 00:51:03.026
Invite trusted people in, those who help you to see what
00:51:03.026 --> 00:51:07.631
You can.
00:51:07.631 --> 00:51:09.132
When we open up, truth enters in where lies have been hiding, and
00:51:09.132 --> 00:51:13.704
Freedom begins when we stop pretending and we start letting
00:51:13.704 --> 00:51:18.041
People in.
00:51:18.041 --> 00:51:20.544
Peace is relational, not situational.
00:51:20.544 --> 00:51:24.948
The lies we believe can fuel anxiety, and every one of us
00:51:24.948 --> 00:51:29.453
Wants to get rid of worry and replace it with peace.
00:51:29.453 --> 00:51:33.323
But we think that peace comes from removing problems, but that
00:51:33.323 --> 00:51:37.194
Ties peace to circumstances.
00:51:37.194 --> 00:51:39.563
Gary shared this picture, standing in a hurricane, but
00:51:39.563 --> 00:51:43.867
Realizing that jesus has his arms around you, then you can
00:51:43.867 --> 00:51:49.673
Sit back and watch the show.
00:51:49.673 --> 00:51:52.509
Peace entered the world when jesus did, and we experience it
00:51:52.509 --> 00:51:56.780
Not by knowing about jesus, but by knowing him.
00:51:56.780 --> 00:52:01.485
So ask yourself, where is my peace tied to my circumstances?
00:52:01.485 --> 00:52:07.457
And how can i let jesus carry me there?
00:52:07.457 --> 00:52:12.796
Live led.
00:52:12.796 --> 00:52:14.431
Gary pointed to some scripture describing the holy spirit as
00:52:14.431 --> 00:52:18.669
The wind, it blows wherever it pleases.
00:52:18.669 --> 00:52:22.372
So, if we're filled with the spirit, shouldn't we also be led
00:52:22.372 --> 00:52:26.743
The same way?
00:52:26.743 --> 00:52:28.211
He said, "when a family lives for a spiritual adventure, that
00:52:28.211 --> 00:52:32.883
Is when christianity takes off."
00:52:32.883 --> 00:52:35.619
So, here's the challenge: start your day asking god how he wants
00:52:35.619 --> 00:52:40.290
To use you, where he wants to lead you, and then follow him.
00:52:40.290 --> 00:52:46.263
That's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:46.263 --> 00:52:48.265
Thanks for watching and don't forget to set your dvr so you
00:52:48.265 --> 00:52:51.101
Never miss an episode.
00:52:51.101 --> 00:52:52.436
You can also catch up on past episodes by searching for kirk
00:52:52.436 --> 00:52:56.740
Cameron on the youtube channel or on the tbn+ app.
00:52:56.740 --> 00:53:01.311
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:53:01.311 --> 00:53:04.715
♪♪♪
00:53:04.715 --> 00:53:04.715

Jennie Allen & Gary Thomas: Dismantling Deceptions and Renewing our Minds | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

April 13, 2026 | 53:26

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