John G. West;David Rives: Holding Firm to Biblical Christianity in Today’s World | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

February 23, 2026 | 53:15

Kirk Cameron is joined by authors John G. West and David Rives discussing the church’s role on being faithful and speaking up for Biblical principles in today’s counter-culture world.

#Culture #Bible #Christianity #Author #Failure #Sin #SeekGod #SpiritualGrowth #Victim #Accountability #Atheist #Belief #Apologetics #KirkCameron #DavidRives

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | John G. West;David Rives: Holding Firm to Biblical Christianity in Today’s World | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | February 23, 2026

Kirk cameron: through today's advanced technologies, there is
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More evidence than ever proving the existence of god and his
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Biblical truths.
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As our culture increasingly pulls away from these
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Foundational christian beliefs, it's important for the church to
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Hold on to these truths and not lose our footing onto the
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Slippery slope of other worldviews.
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My guests today, dr. john g. west and david rives, will
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Discuss how to stay firm in our spiritual beliefs and equip
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Ourselves to be lights in a dark world.
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John west: if your guiding light is the current culture, as the
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Culture gets worse, you're gonna be dragged right down with it.
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David rives: but if we understood that we were
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Fearfully and wonderfully made, that we were made in god's
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Image, i think we would see a society, families who started to
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Turn around and say, "well, now, how can i use my god-given gifts
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To really impact the culture for good?"
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Kirk: it's all coming up on "takeaways."
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Kirk: my first guest, dr. john g. west, is vice president of
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Discovery institute in seattle.
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An award-winning author and filmmaker, he's also written a
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Number of books and directed a dozen documentaries.
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And what we will be discussing today is his latest book called
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"stockholm syndrome christianity: why christian
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Leaders are failing and what we can do about it."
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John, thank you so much for joining us.
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John: thanks for having me on.
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Kirk: well, you're answering a question that so many of
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Us have.
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Why are christian leaders falling?
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I mean, we have heroes of the faith that are turning out to
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Be--are they wolves in sheep's clothing?
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Are they just so weak that they've fallen to the atheists
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Or to the perverts?
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What in the world is happening and what can we do about it?
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But first i guess i'd like to ask you, what is
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Stockholm syndrome?
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John: yeah, stockholm syndrome goes back to stockholm, sweden,
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Hence the name stockholm, where there's this bank robbery where
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People were held hostage by someone with a submachine gun,
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And then something strange happened.
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About 100 hours into it they started to identify with the
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Hostage taker and actually be hostile towards the police.
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I mean, the victims were identifying with the
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Hostage taker.
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And so, out of this psychologists sort of came up
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With this idea that sometimes when you're in this stressful
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Situation by--you're being oppressed or victimized,
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Sometimes you could end up identifying with the victimizer
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Or identifying with the oppressor.
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Kirk: wow, so then, how does that apply to stockholm
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Syndrome christianity?
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John: yeah, so i was thinking and really praying about this in
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My life, sort of i was a christian college professor for
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12 years before i was at this think tank.
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And then i've dealt with a lot of people at various levels of
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Leadership and an elder in my local church, and i saw
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Something, and it really hit me that stockholm syndrome
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Described it.
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If you're a christian in leadership, chances are you've
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Spent a lot of your life either in grad school or with the
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People surrounding you in the professions by people who are
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Really hostile to biblical christianity.
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They may be nice people personally to you, but their
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Worldview is at the polar opposite.
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Kirk: you're talking about like scientists and professors.
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John: scientists, professors, journalists,
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Government officials.
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Kirk: yeah, the heroes in those fields.
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John: correct, again, they may be personally nice people, but
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Their worldview is, "oh, the bible is nonsense," or "you
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Believe that?"
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Well, one strategy if you're a christian in that, you could
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Stand up, but you may end up being persuaded.
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You may still sincerely be a christian.
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This is what i think.
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People often think that christians who are compromised,
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Oh, it's just because they're cowards, or no,
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Or they're fearful.
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Yes, there is some of that, but i've seen case after case of
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People who are personally still christians, they're sincere,
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They think they're standing up for the truth, you know, but in
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Fact they're mimicking the talking points of
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The secularists.
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And i think because they become persuaded at some level that
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They're right, and so they spend more of their time attacking
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Really their fundamental christian beliefs than standing
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Up for them because they have that mindset.
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For example, the most powerful scientist in america for over
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A decade, his name is francis collins.
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I accept francis collins as a brother in christ.
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He had a great conversion experience from being an atheist
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To finding christ.
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But sadly, if you actually look, he was head of something called
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The national institutes of health.
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Kirk: yeah, he mapped out the whole genome project, right?
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John: he was involved in that.
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He controlled billions of dollars of federal spending,
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And if you actually look at what he did, it's tragic.
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So, on his watch when he controlled the money, he spent
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Millions of tax dollars to harvest baby parts from
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Late-term aborted babies, up to 40 weeks in gestation.
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I mean, that's infanticide, basically, to create a tissue
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Bank to do macabre experiments, like one of the experiments he
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Helped fund was you took scalps from little babies and grafted
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Them into mice for these mice-human hybrids.
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He also spent millions of more tax dollars on hospitals and
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Doctors who did sex-destructive research, like cutting breasts
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Off young women.
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And he identified himself as an ally and advocate, his term, of
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The lgbtqia movement and basically insisted that
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Employees become that as well.
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And this was from the nation's most identifiable leading
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Evangelical christian scientist, and so the the tragedy here is,
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And again, i accept him as a brother in christ, but
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The tragedy is those things he did were anything but christian.
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And what a lot of people who looked up to him ended up being
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Misled down destructive paths because of that.
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Kirk: and it's pervasive.
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I mean, we see this not only in science.
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John: in the era of the bible, i'd say i start my book with the
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Authority of the bible because i think it all flows from that,
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And you have mega church pastors, for example, who've
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Written books saying that the old testament is the obsolete
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Testament and that everything christians have done that's bad
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Is because they still believe in the old testament.
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Now, we're not just talking about that christ fulfilled the
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Old testament, which of course, all christians believe, but no,
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Really disowning the old testament.
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Or a christian apologist who is quite well known who's
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Advocating that, "well, the gospels are like hollywood
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Movies that were inspired by true events, but where the
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Writers invented new situations, changed all sorts of stuff to
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Fit whatever they were saying."
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This is not the traditional sort of christian belief in the
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Authority of the bible, and once you get--and start disowning
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The bible or saying, well, it doesn't really mean what it says
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Or we can't really trust it, that leads down the path to
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A lot of things.
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Kirk: and when christians listen to the wrong voices, when
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Christian leaders listen to the wrong voices and for whatever
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Reason they are persuaded of these things, they go down a
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Road, and then often i think they're self-deceived at
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Some point.
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They don't even realize maybe that they're a walking
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Contradiction, or maybe they do and they don't know what to do
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About it or they're hiding it.
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But what ends up happening to a culture when our sheep are
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Listening to the wolves?
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John: yeah, there's no stopping point.
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And, you know, a lot of people say, "oh, the slippery slope
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Argument, that's not fair," but in reality, it's true.
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And so, let me give you an example.
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There was a pastor who was featured in "time magazine" as a
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New breed of evangelical pastor, lived in the seattle area, and
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Why was he featured in "time magazine"?
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Because they were going to bless same-sex unions, and this is the
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Way evangelicals need to go.
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Well, if you check out what happened in that church, that
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Evangelical church that "time" featured as the wave of the
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Future, it no longer exists.
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Why does it no longer exist?
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Well, their pastor kept going, and by the end of the church he
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No longer really called himself a christian.
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It was just, well, be nice to people, and jesus is one way
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Among many, and actually you can find him and his wife now in
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Oregon advising people on psychedelic trips.
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I kid you not.
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I mean, a complete implosion, but it makes sense.
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If your guiding light is the current culture, as the culture
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Gets worse, you're going to be dragged right down with it.
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Kirk: this just sounds like christianity 101 warnings.
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"do not love the world or the ways of the world."
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"don't listen to fools."
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"believe the truth, and the truth is found in the word
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Of god."
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I mean, these are really intelligent, mature people who
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Are making these fundamental mistakes of listening to
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Anti-god, anti-family people.
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What--how is that happening?
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John: well, again, if you are following the ways of the world
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And being persuaded by that, then that really takes
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The precedence.
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And sometimes, let's be clear, it's not as clear cut.
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Let's lose another issue, say poverty.
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Christians have always been at the forefront of helping, you
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Know, people, you know, get out of poverty, and that's great.
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But what's the modern materialist story about that?
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Well, poverty is simply a resource problem, so just give
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More resources to people.
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Well, in america that's not true.
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We know that long term intractable intergenerational
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Poverty is largely tied to family breakdown, and that
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Homelessness, and where i come from, seattle, which is
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Unfortunately taken over by homeless people who are--who--
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It's tragic because they're fentanyl abusing, they're
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Mentally ill.
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It's a figure of brokenness, and so if you just give money to
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Them or give shelter, you're not dealing with their deepest
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Problems, let alone not connecting them to god.
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Yes, shelter is important, but if you're a christian, that's
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Not the only thing when you're trying to minister to people in
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Their deepest hurt.
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They need jesus, but they also, you know, if they have
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Dysfunctional behaviors and things, they al--that needs to
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Be addressed.
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But so many christian ministries in name only have bought into
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This secularist mindset that, "oh, we are compassionate.
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If we just give more money, if the government just gives more
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Money, more money, more resources," and they leave
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People basically in the gutter with that.
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Kirk: yeah, that's exactly right, and the criticism is,
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"well, you guys just pray, but prayer is not going to get these
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People off the streets.
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It's not going to fix their homelessness problem."
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But then they try to get pragmatic about the whole thing
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And leave out the transformation of the human heart, and it never
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Does fix the problem.
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It just makes lots and lots of money for those who want to
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Manage the problem for generations.
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John: homelessness industrial complex, yes.
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Kirk: that's right, i remember dr. ben.
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Carson said to me that there are many people making lots of money
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Off of the poverty industry.
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That's why it never goes away, which is just insidious and
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It's shocking.
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But the good news about your book is that if in fact the
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Causes of all of these ills in society is not the atheists
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Primarily--yes, that's a problem--if it's not those who
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Are anti-christian values, like maybe the rainbow religion or
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Whatever else you want to point to, but those within our own
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Team who are doing the compromising because we're
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People pleasers more than we're god pleasers, the good news is
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That we can change that.
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It's called repentance.
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It's called a great awakening.
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It's called a revival.
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And god is in the special business of revivals and great
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Awakenings, and it's happened in america at least a couple
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Of times.
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It's happened throughout history, and this could be a
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Very exciting time where we see things turn around.
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I have lots more questions.
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I'm gonna get to them, i promise.
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After the break, we're gonna talk more with john about how we
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Can equip ourselves to hold firm to our christian faith.
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And then later in the program, the founder of the wonders
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Center and science museum, david rives, will share how science
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Supports the bible, so don't go away.
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David: now we're seeing galaxies and nebulae and all of these
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Incredibly designed things, these designed elements of the
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Cosmos are pointing us to a designer.
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Cosmos are pointing us to a designer.
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Kirk: we're back with john g. west, discussing his latest
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Book, "stockholm syndrome christianity."
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I highly recommend that you read this book if you want to
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Understand why the cultural disintegration seems to be
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Happening so quickly and why our christian leaders seem to be
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Falling so easily.
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In your book you talk about three actions christians can
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Take to respond to stockholm syndrome christianity.
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What are those?
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John: number one that anyone can do is take stock.
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What--make sure that you're not part of the problem.
00:12:53.351 --> 00:12:56.387
Make sure that how are you stewarding your time and
00:12:56.387 --> 00:13:00.825
Resources, and what do i mean by that?
00:13:00.825 --> 00:13:03.561
Each of us, whether we have families or whether we're part
00:13:03.561 --> 00:13:06.431
Of a church or whether we give-- all christians should tithe or
00:13:06.431 --> 00:13:10.134
Give money--where are you going to church?
00:13:10.134 --> 00:13:12.370
Are you going to a biblical solid church?
00:13:12.370 --> 00:13:14.405
If you're not, i've known people who stay at churches past the
00:13:14.405 --> 00:13:17.375
Pool day.
00:13:17.375 --> 00:13:18.743
And i'm not taking, you know, leaving because you disagree on
00:13:18.743 --> 00:13:20.345
The worship or something.
00:13:20.345 --> 00:13:21.713
No, leaving because, well, maybe the pastor came out and said,
00:13:21.713 --> 00:13:24.916
"well, the bible really isn't clear on marriage."
00:13:24.916 --> 00:13:27.719
People for social reasons who have stayed and end up hurting
00:13:27.719 --> 00:13:30.588
Their children, and when you volunteer and give money, you
00:13:30.588 --> 00:13:33.558
Are actually becoming part of the problem yourself.
00:13:33.558 --> 00:13:36.494
So, take stock of the things that god has already called you
00:13:36.494 --> 00:13:39.597
To do.
00:13:39.597 --> 00:13:40.932
Are you being faithful?
00:13:40.932 --> 00:13:42.300
So, are you going to a biblical church?
00:13:42.300 --> 00:13:43.902
When you give money, are you writing to ministries?
00:13:43.902 --> 00:13:46.104
I remember there was a ministry years ago that styled itself as
00:13:46.104 --> 00:13:49.841
A christian ministry helping impoverished children, and there
00:13:49.841 --> 00:13:52.577
Are good ministries that do that, but this particular one i
00:13:52.577 --> 00:13:55.346
Later found out that it had christian in the name, but it
00:13:55.346 --> 00:13:57.415
Really hadn't been run as a christian ministry for a long
00:13:57.415 --> 00:14:01.486
Time, so then i ended up giving to another place.
00:14:01.486 --> 00:14:03.688
Well, here's another thing.
00:14:03.688 --> 00:14:05.056
Did you graduate from a christian college?
00:14:05.056 --> 00:14:06.391
I know people who write checks to christian colleges that are
00:14:06.391 --> 00:14:08.893
No longer really christian colleges.
00:14:08.893 --> 00:14:10.461
Kirk: but it's still in the name.
00:14:10.461 --> 00:14:11.829
John: it's still in the name, and they may even know that, but
00:14:11.829 --> 00:14:13.698
You know, they get a call from a current student saying, "can you
00:14:13.698 --> 00:14:17.101
Help out?" and they write a check.
00:14:17.101 --> 00:14:19.804
How are you stewarding your own resources?
00:14:19.804 --> 00:14:22.440
So number one, make sure you're not part of the problem, and the
00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.744
Things you're already doing, that you're wisely stewarding
00:14:26.744 --> 00:14:29.514
Things, and that's something everyone can do.
00:14:29.514 --> 00:14:32.350
Kirk: i love that.
00:14:32.350 --> 00:14:33.718
What--and i know that these 21 things are in your book,
00:14:33.718 --> 00:14:36.287
So what's another one?
00:14:36.287 --> 00:14:37.622
John: another one is, it's where do they get their
00:14:37.622 --> 00:14:40.692
Information from?
00:14:40.692 --> 00:14:42.060
We are an information-saturated society, but too many christians
00:14:42.060 --> 00:14:46.431
Get their information and their entertainment from the exact
00:14:46.431 --> 00:14:49.667
Same places as their most secular friends and colleagues.
00:14:49.667 --> 00:14:54.238
And i'm not saying that christians should never, you
00:14:54.238 --> 00:14:56.274
Know, imbibe, you know, secular things, but if you are getting,
00:14:56.274 --> 00:15:00.111
As i talk about in one of my chapters about the news media,
00:15:00.111 --> 00:15:03.614
We know through surveys of most of the people who are producing
00:15:03.614 --> 00:15:07.685
News and information in our culture largely come from
00:15:07.685 --> 00:15:10.788
A non-christian worldview.
00:15:10.788 --> 00:15:12.290
That doesn't mean they personally hate christians, but
00:15:12.290 --> 00:15:13.758
It's just their worldview is different, and so that shapes
00:15:13.758 --> 00:15:16.427
Their reporting.
00:15:16.427 --> 00:15:17.795
So, if that's where you're getting your information about,
00:15:17.795 --> 00:15:20.465
Say, marriage, gay marriage, for example, about christian
00:15:20.465 --> 00:15:23.935
Persecution, it's gonna shape you.
00:15:23.935 --> 00:15:26.571
It's gonna shape your kids.
00:15:26.571 --> 00:15:27.972
So, the good news is there are-- and not just this show, but
00:15:27.972 --> 00:15:31.609
There are lots of good christian news sources now and information
00:15:31.609 --> 00:15:35.213
Sources, and so you can make sure that you're filling
00:15:35.213 --> 00:15:38.449
Yourself and your kids with good things.
00:15:38.449 --> 00:15:40.618
And so, where do you get your information from?
00:15:40.618 --> 00:15:43.187
That's another big thing.
00:15:43.187 --> 00:15:44.522
And then if you're a parent or even a grandparent, you need to
00:15:44.522 --> 00:15:47.825
Ask, who is really raising your kids?
00:15:47.825 --> 00:15:50.228
And i know every parent would say, "well, yeah, we're raising
00:15:50.228 --> 00:15:52.397
Our kids."
00:15:52.397 --> 00:15:53.765
Is that true?
00:15:53.765 --> 00:15:55.099
Is tiktok raising your kids?
00:15:55.099 --> 00:15:56.467
Is netflix raising your kids?
00:15:56.467 --> 00:15:57.802
Is chatgpt raising your kids?
00:15:57.802 --> 00:16:00.271
And i think you just need to do an inventory, and there are lots
00:16:00.271 --> 00:16:02.607
Of things suggested in the books of whether it be, you know,
00:16:02.607 --> 00:16:05.410
Weekly devotionals or just talking around the dinner table
00:16:05.410 --> 00:16:08.980
About issues, watching things with your kids.
00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:11.416
You don't need to be an expert on everything, but at least
00:16:11.416 --> 00:16:14.318
Curate some things that will generate discussions with
00:16:14.318 --> 00:16:17.088
Your kids.
00:16:17.088 --> 00:16:18.456
So, that's another big one because if you actually talk
00:16:18.456 --> 00:16:20.024
About the future, who's having kids?
00:16:20.024 --> 00:16:22.493
Christians are having kids.
00:16:22.493 --> 00:16:24.362
The way the secular culture wins is because they take your kids
00:16:24.362 --> 00:16:28.800
From you, but they don't have to.
00:16:28.800 --> 00:16:30.902
If you train them up--now, again, this isn't perfect.
00:16:30.902 --> 00:16:33.938
Obviously we're in a sinful world, but on the whole, if you
00:16:33.938 --> 00:16:37.241
Train your kids up with a biblical worldview, forewarned
00:16:37.241 --> 00:16:40.978
Is forearmed.
00:16:40.978 --> 00:16:42.447
They're more likely to turn out and be strong christians, but
00:16:42.447 --> 00:16:45.817
You need to invest.
00:16:45.817 --> 00:16:47.185
If you're investing more in soccer league than in bible
00:16:47.185 --> 00:16:50.621
Study--and you should do both, but, you know, if you're not
00:16:50.621 --> 00:16:52.957
Investing in their minds and hearts and molding them with
00:16:52.957 --> 00:16:55.593
A christian worldview, you get what, you know, you basically
00:16:55.593 --> 00:17:00.498
Invest in.
00:17:00.498 --> 00:17:01.866
Kirk: man, what you're saying is so true.
00:17:01.866 --> 00:17:04.268
The late voddie baucham so famously said and inspired a
00:17:04.268 --> 00:17:07.972
Whole generation of people to start homeschooling their
00:17:07.972 --> 00:17:10.575
Children, "if we send our children to caesar to be
00:17:10.575 --> 00:17:14.512
Educated, why are we surprised when they come back romans?"
00:17:14.512 --> 00:17:20.151
And so, where are they getting their information from?
00:17:20.151 --> 00:17:23.254
That's so true.
00:17:23.254 --> 00:17:24.589
As adults, i find it hard to find sources of information in
00:17:24.589 --> 00:17:30.495
The news about politics, about science, anything that is--we
00:17:30.495 --> 00:17:36.834
Wanna say unbiased, but i think there really is no neutrality.
00:17:36.834 --> 00:17:39.837
You're gonna have a bias somewhere, and i want
00:17:39.837 --> 00:17:41.973
A christian biblical bias on this stuff that's good.
00:17:41.973 --> 00:17:45.810
Is there one that you could suggest, a news source,
00:17:45.810 --> 00:17:50.548
A network, a channel, something where you say, like, you know,
00:17:50.548 --> 00:17:54.051
I trust these guys.
00:17:54.051 --> 00:17:55.486
Maybe not perfect, but i trust these guys.
00:17:55.486 --> 00:17:57.922
John: so, people don't even need to buy my book.
00:17:57.922 --> 00:17:59.857
They can just go to the website for the book,
00:17:59.857 --> 00:18:01.559
Stockholmsyndrome christianity.com,
00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:03.394
And i have a whole list of resources,
00:18:03.394 --> 00:18:04.729
Including a list of news sources and things.
00:18:04.729 --> 00:18:07.765
So, one example, i think the "christian post" does a good job
00:18:07.765 --> 00:18:10.902
In doing news, but there are special things.
00:18:10.902 --> 00:18:13.337
If you're interested in the worldwide persecuted church,
00:18:13.337 --> 00:18:16.207
There are some great resources.
00:18:16.207 --> 00:18:17.542
If you're interested in the interface between science and
00:18:17.542 --> 00:18:19.644
Christianity, i'd say discovery institute has a lot of great
00:18:19.644 --> 00:18:22.346
Online news and information sources.
00:18:22.346 --> 00:18:24.415
And so, that--the great thing is god has moved, and there are
00:18:24.415 --> 00:18:28.519
A lot--there are lots of good shows on tbn.
00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:30.821
God has moved and created lots of good things, but christians
00:18:30.821 --> 00:18:36.394
Need to be responsible for finding and using them and not
00:18:36.394 --> 00:18:40.631
Just defaulting to the cultural default.
00:18:40.631 --> 00:18:44.235
Kirk: yes, yes.
00:18:44.235 --> 00:18:46.304
In your book you talk about the unexpected reason that so many
00:18:46.304 --> 00:18:49.473
Christian institutions, including colleges, have fallen
00:18:49.473 --> 00:18:52.610
Away from orthodoxy.
00:18:52.610 --> 00:18:54.612
I mean, these are the ones who are supposed to be the
00:18:54.612 --> 00:18:57.882
Gatekeepers and the safeguarders of truth.
00:18:57.882 --> 00:19:00.785
I think of harvard college, harvard university.
00:19:00.785 --> 00:19:03.721
You think of all of these ivy league schools, many of them,
00:19:03.721 --> 00:19:06.657
If not all of them, were built for the sole purpose of guarding
00:19:06.657 --> 00:19:09.894
The truth so that you had a well-educated clergy.
00:19:09.894 --> 00:19:12.330
You know, it was pastor john harvard, correct?
00:19:12.330 --> 00:19:15.967
What happened?
00:19:15.967 --> 00:19:17.401
John: so, i was a christian college professor for 12 years,
00:19:17.401 --> 00:19:19.704
And i actually saw my institution go down this level.
00:19:19.704 --> 00:19:23.507
So, that's one of the things i share because i think a lot of
00:19:23.507 --> 00:19:25.409
Christians don't quite understand why this
00:19:25.409 --> 00:19:27.678
Is happening.
00:19:27.678 --> 00:19:29.046
And they think that, "well, it's the woke faculty or the
00:19:29.046 --> 00:19:32.283
Woke administrators."
00:19:32.283 --> 00:19:33.651
Yeah, there is truth to that, but what i saw in my institution
00:19:33.651 --> 00:19:36.787
Was just a few years ago they had a vote of the faculty, and
00:19:36.787 --> 00:19:38.956
Over 70% basically rejected biblical marriage.
00:19:38.956 --> 00:19:43.427
This was founded as an evangelical
00:19:43.427 --> 00:19:45.196
Christian institution.
00:19:45.196 --> 00:19:46.564
How do you have a christian institution when 70% reject
00:19:46.564 --> 00:19:48.899
Basic biblical marriage?
00:19:48.899 --> 00:19:50.368
Well, the sad answer is you don't have a christian
00:19:50.368 --> 00:19:53.504
Institution anymore.
00:19:53.504 --> 00:19:54.839
So, what was the watershed?
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:57.141
Well, the president wanted to break away from the founding
00:19:57.141 --> 00:20:01.445
Evangelical denomination but not adopt a really strong statement
00:20:01.445 --> 00:20:05.983
Of faith to replace it.
00:20:05.983 --> 00:20:08.586
And it was the board, the board who were filled with
00:20:08.586 --> 00:20:13.357
Bible-believing, theologically conservative christians from
00:20:13.357 --> 00:20:16.327
Both business and from the sponsoring denomination, that
00:20:16.327 --> 00:20:19.196
Went along with it.
00:20:19.196 --> 00:20:20.531
The biggest tragedy is that, yes, there were woke faculty,
00:20:20.531 --> 00:20:23.634
They were pushing it, but the people who actually enabled it
00:20:23.634 --> 00:20:26.704
Were theologically conservative christians who were
00:20:26.704 --> 00:20:29.140
On the board.
00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:30.508
And it wasn't because they didn't know about it because
00:20:30.508 --> 00:20:32.143
Actually i was one of a handful of faculty who made sure they
00:20:32.143 --> 00:20:35.446
Knew about it, but they flinched.
00:20:35.446 --> 00:20:37.815
And they basically ended up letting the denom--pulling away
00:20:37.815 --> 00:20:42.186
From the sponsoring denomination, and then within
00:20:42.186 --> 00:20:46.123
Another decade, then you get 70% of the faculty voting against
00:20:46.123 --> 00:20:49.660
Biblical marriage.
00:20:49.660 --> 00:20:50.995
And so, i think that a lot of churches, i mean, for some of
00:20:50.995 --> 00:20:54.665
These mega churches where the pastors go off, they all have
00:20:54.665 --> 00:20:57.468
Boards of elders.
00:20:57.468 --> 00:20:58.869
And in some of the cases those elders are actually more
00:20:58.869 --> 00:21:01.439
Theologically orthodox, but they don't have the courage of
00:21:01.439 --> 00:21:03.908
Their convictions.
00:21:03.908 --> 00:21:05.276
When the people who are heterodox who are pushing
00:21:05.276 --> 00:21:07.978
Against their biblical authority have the courage of their
00:21:07.978 --> 00:21:10.848
Convictions, because a lot of them are sincere, sincerely
00:21:10.848 --> 00:21:13.017
Wrong, but the people who know the truth aren't, don't have the
00:21:13.017 --> 00:21:18.356
Same courage of their convictions, and maybe they
00:21:18.356 --> 00:21:20.324
Think in the college where i was at, i think they thought, well,
00:21:20.324 --> 00:21:23.294
It was being nice.
00:21:23.294 --> 00:21:24.995
But they're not being nice to the founders of the school who
00:21:24.995 --> 00:21:28.065
Founded it for christ.
00:21:28.065 --> 00:21:29.800
And again, you go back, and there's been a number of
00:21:29.800 --> 00:21:33.471
Christian schools now that say on the issue of the marriage
00:21:33.471 --> 00:21:36.107
Issue, they say, "well, we're standing on biblical marriage,
00:21:36.107 --> 00:21:39.243
Yet at the same time we're not changing our official position,"
00:21:39.243 --> 00:21:42.880
But they're saying, "but we can have faculty who are against it,
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.717
And they can be writing books against it, they can be teaching
00:21:46.717 --> 00:21:48.686
Against it, and that's fine."
00:21:48.686 --> 00:21:50.421
And so, they don't really--so i actually think board members
00:21:50.421 --> 00:21:53.357
Have tremendous power, and if someone's watching now who's a
00:21:53.357 --> 00:21:56.127
Board member and maybe they're-- they feel they're outnumbered, i
00:21:56.127 --> 00:21:59.163
Will tell you that if you're on a board, i've been on boards,
00:21:59.163 --> 00:22:02.133
Just by raising the issues, a lot of things happen because
00:22:02.133 --> 00:22:05.136
They don't actually go before the boards.
00:22:05.136 --> 00:22:06.704
If you even have one person on the board raise that issue and
00:22:06.704 --> 00:22:09.840
Force a discussion, you may end up having more accountability
00:22:09.840 --> 00:22:14.512
Than you think that you can.
00:22:14.512 --> 00:22:16.046
Kirk: yeah, you're really talking about a call to
00:22:16.046 --> 00:22:18.883
Christian courage.
00:22:18.883 --> 00:22:20.251
If we want things to turn around, we cannot be weak,
00:22:20.251 --> 00:22:22.620
We cannot be cowards.
00:22:22.620 --> 00:22:23.988
Christianity must be courageous, and i think that god has given
00:22:23.988 --> 00:22:28.426
Us a second birth bravery as christians, and we need to have
00:22:28.426 --> 00:22:32.830
This new creation courage define us, whether we're board members
00:22:32.830 --> 00:22:37.234
Or whether we're pastors, influencers, parents who i think
00:22:37.234 --> 00:22:40.704
Are the greatest influencers.
00:22:40.704 --> 00:22:42.706
We've got to be able to stand with strength.
00:22:42.706 --> 00:22:45.676
I think it was boniface who said something like, "when the trend
00:22:45.676 --> 00:22:50.281
Of values, when the sensibilities of the culture go
00:22:50.281 --> 00:22:55.853
Against your convictions," he said, "you've got to fight with
00:22:55.853 --> 00:23:01.358
All the fire of your faith."
00:23:01.358 --> 00:23:03.160
And he says, "battle has become your calling and silence has
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.530
Become sin."
00:23:06.530 --> 00:23:08.065
And there's another pastor in idaho who has said, "desperate
00:23:08.065 --> 00:23:13.838
Times call for desperate courage."
00:23:13.838 --> 00:23:19.743
And he said, "these are the times for faithful men, not for
00:23:19.743 --> 00:23:23.347
Careful men who are trying to please everybody."
00:23:23.347 --> 00:23:26.450
He said that "the careful men come later and they write the
00:23:26.450 --> 00:23:28.385
Biographies of the faithful men who did the right thing under
00:23:28.385 --> 00:23:32.490
Fire, and we will praise them for their courage."
00:23:32.490 --> 00:23:36.193
John: i think that's exactly right.
00:23:36.193 --> 00:23:37.828
I--one thing i just add to that is that biblical courage isn't
00:23:37.828 --> 00:23:41.165
The same as secular courage because there is, you know, the
00:23:41.165 --> 00:23:44.168
Bible--biblical commands of humility and love, that's in the
00:23:44.168 --> 00:23:48.038
Midst of courage, in the midst of battle even.
00:23:48.038 --> 00:23:49.807
And so, i do think those who are standing up and being
00:23:49.807 --> 00:23:53.544
Courageous, also, you know, satan will get you coming and
00:23:53.544 --> 00:23:56.080
Going, and so you need to be courageous, but you make sure
00:23:56.080 --> 00:23:59.450
That you do it in a biblical way.
00:23:59.450 --> 00:24:01.652
Kirk: that's right, and i think we can look to jesus for that.
00:24:01.652 --> 00:24:04.922
He defeated all the forces of darkness and hell and overcame
00:24:04.922 --> 00:24:08.893
The grave, and he did it while loving and healing and offering
00:24:08.893 --> 00:24:13.397
Forgiveness and trusting in his father.
00:24:13.397 --> 00:24:15.799
At the end of your book, john, you offer four encouragements.
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:20.170
One of them is we're called to be faithful, not successful.
00:24:20.170 --> 00:24:22.973
Can you unpack that for us?
00:24:22.973 --> 00:24:24.508
John: if you are watching this, i know so many people, you know,
00:24:24.508 --> 00:24:27.645
In my extended family or church members who are just really
00:24:27.645 --> 00:24:31.749
Depressed because of all the bad things that are happening, and
00:24:31.749 --> 00:24:34.418
They're praying and they're trying to do their best, and i
00:24:34.418 --> 00:24:37.555
Just say you're not called-- we're not like atlas with the
00:24:37.555 --> 00:24:40.424
World on our--or universe on our shoulders.
00:24:40.424 --> 00:24:42.326
You're just called to be faithful, and god will take care
00:24:42.326 --> 00:24:44.395
Of the rest.
00:24:44.395 --> 00:24:45.729
And god can surprise us, and one reason to study history is not
00:24:45.729 --> 00:24:49.833
Because it's dead and gone, but it will give you hope for now.
00:24:49.833 --> 00:24:52.236
If you were a christian who lived in the early times of the
00:24:52.236 --> 00:24:55.339
Roman empire, you might think, "we're just gonna be wiped out,"
00:24:55.339 --> 00:24:58.142
And then christianity basically converted all the people who
00:24:58.142 --> 00:25:00.911
Oppressed it.
00:25:00.911 --> 00:25:02.246
If you were in china at the time the missionaries were thrown out
00:25:02.246 --> 00:25:04.915
And mao's later cultural revolution, you thought, "oh,
00:25:04.915 --> 00:25:07.985
Christianity is decimated."
00:25:07.985 --> 00:25:09.320
Now there are millions upon millions of people in china.
00:25:09.320 --> 00:25:11.522
Even in american history, a lot of people airbrush american
00:25:11.522 --> 00:25:14.625
History and say, "oh, everyone was christian at the beginning."
00:25:14.625 --> 00:25:16.660
Well, there were a lot of christians, but actually right
00:25:16.660 --> 00:25:19.029
After the american founding, the people who rejected jesus as god
00:25:19.029 --> 00:25:23.200
Were quite prominent and took over a lot of the old puritan
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.869
Churches in new england.
00:25:25.869 --> 00:25:27.204
But then god did something called the second great
00:25:27.204 --> 00:25:29.106
Awakening, and masses of new people became bible believing
00:25:29.106 --> 00:25:32.876
Christians in america.
00:25:32.876 --> 00:25:35.379
So, on the cusp often of, you know, sometimes it's darkest,
00:25:35.379 --> 00:25:39.350
You know, before the dawn, on the--god surprises us.
00:25:39.350 --> 00:25:42.620
And so, we believe in a god who ultimately, i know, the great
00:25:42.620 --> 00:25:46.657
Dorothy sayers once pointed out it's really hard for a christian
00:25:46.657 --> 00:25:49.026
To write an out and out tragedy because of the resurrection.
00:25:49.026 --> 00:25:53.097
You know, because god keeps breaking in, because ultimately,
00:25:53.097 --> 00:25:55.432
I mean, god is sovereign, in control, so trust in that.
00:25:55.432 --> 00:25:58.435
Kirk: amen, amen, i love that, and i keep reminding myself, for
00:25:58.435 --> 00:26:02.072
The christian there is no worst case scenario.
00:26:02.072 --> 00:26:04.508
The worst case scenario i could think of was jesus on the cross.
00:26:04.508 --> 00:26:08.812
The story is not over.
00:26:08.812 --> 00:26:10.514
And so for us, we know that he's sovereign, he's working all
00:26:10.514 --> 00:26:13.283
Things together for good, for the good of those who love him
00:26:13.283 --> 00:26:15.786
And are called according to his purpose.
00:26:15.786 --> 00:26:18.222
So, thank you for writing this book.
00:26:18.222 --> 00:26:20.124
Thank you for being a watchman on the wall.
00:26:20.124 --> 00:26:22.526
Thank you for warning us and then not leaving us there but
00:26:22.526 --> 00:26:25.562
Giving us ways that we can turn things around.
00:26:25.562 --> 00:26:28.966
Thank you.
00:26:28.966 --> 00:26:30.567
Coming up after the break, david rives will share his discoveries
00:26:30.567 --> 00:26:34.405
Of science backing up biblical scriptures and how this can
00:26:34.405 --> 00:26:38.676
Strengthen our ability to share the scriptures with others.
00:26:38.676 --> 00:26:43.280
Stay with us.
00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:48.996
Stay with us.
00:26:48.996 --> 00:26:54.526
Kirk: did you know that the largest science museum that
00:26:57.328 --> 00:27:00.465
Upholds biblical values is the wonders center and science
00:27:00.465 --> 00:27:04.803
Museum in tennessee?
00:27:04.803 --> 00:27:06.604
The founder, owner, and director of this museum is with us today.
00:27:06.604 --> 00:27:10.175
His name is david rives, and he's also a researcher,
00:27:10.175 --> 00:27:12.711
A television host, and an author whose latest book is titled
00:27:12.711 --> 00:27:17.515
"21 verses backed by science."
00:27:17.515 --> 00:27:20.085
David, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
00:27:20.085 --> 00:27:21.753
David: thanks for having me, kirk.
00:27:21.753 --> 00:27:23.088
Kirk: and i'm so excited that your museum and you are here in
00:27:23.088 --> 00:27:27.625
The state of tennessee because this is where i live now, and i
00:27:27.625 --> 00:27:31.296
Didn't even know that you are located in dixon, tennessee.
00:27:31.296 --> 00:27:35.200
David: just on the west side of nashville there.
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:38.536
Kirk: and this is the largest science museum upholding
00:27:38.536 --> 00:27:41.906
Biblical values?
00:27:41.906 --> 00:27:43.274
David: yeah, over 100,000 square feet with kid's hands-on
00:27:43.274 --> 00:27:47.245
Activities, a planetarium-- there are 4,300 planetariums
00:27:47.245 --> 00:27:51.282
Around the world, but most of the ones that you step into, you
00:27:51.282 --> 00:27:55.053
Watch a movie and it says you're star stuff, you're just an
00:27:55.053 --> 00:27:58.223
Accident of the cosmos, you know.
00:27:58.223 --> 00:28:00.291
And so, if you step into our planetarium, you are going to
00:28:00.291 --> 00:28:04.395
Not only feel like you're floating through space past
00:28:04.395 --> 00:28:07.432
Galaxies and planets, but at the same time you're gonna be told,
00:28:07.432 --> 00:28:10.869
Yeah, you're not an accident of the cosmos.
00:28:10.869 --> 00:28:13.037
You are fearfully and wonderfully made, and just like
00:28:13.037 --> 00:28:15.874
Psalm 19 says, "the heavens declare the glory of god."
00:28:15.874 --> 00:28:18.877
Kirk: this is so important because as a young kid i was
00:28:18.877 --> 00:28:22.747
Just mesmerized by the stars, thinking those aren't just
00:28:22.747 --> 00:28:26.351
Pinpricks of light out there.
00:28:26.351 --> 00:28:27.986
They're actually massive stars.
00:28:27.986 --> 00:28:30.655
They're suns, many of them bigger than our own sun, and
00:28:30.655 --> 00:28:33.825
When i began to learn about this, it challenged what i
00:28:33.825 --> 00:28:36.995
Thought about how we got here.
00:28:36.995 --> 00:28:38.630
And, fortunately, i was listening to guys like ken ham
00:28:38.630 --> 00:28:42.167
And others who would put science and the bible together in a way
00:28:42.167 --> 00:28:48.206
That i could actually believe this with
00:28:48.206 --> 00:28:51.876
Intellectual integrity.
00:28:51.876 --> 00:28:53.645
David: right, that's the thing, kirk, because when you think
00:28:53.645 --> 00:28:56.281
About the intellectual atheist of today who has gone through
00:28:56.281 --> 00:29:00.018
College, who has learned in their biology class, and now
00:29:00.018 --> 00:29:03.521
Think about this for a second, it's a 60% chance that your
00:29:03.521 --> 00:29:06.858
American biology professor is atheist or agnostic.
00:29:06.858 --> 00:29:09.861
I don't care how unbiased they attempt to be, that's gonna
00:29:09.861 --> 00:29:13.064
Bleed over to our american youth, right?
00:29:13.064 --> 00:29:16.701
So now these youth, they're growing up, they're becoming the
00:29:16.701 --> 00:29:20.004
New scientists, but they're coming at it from a perspective
00:29:20.004 --> 00:29:22.640
Of, "oh, well, i'm an intellectual, and to be
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.943
An intellectual, i cannot believe that there is a creator.
00:29:24.943 --> 00:29:28.213
I must believe that nature is all that there is."
00:29:28.213 --> 00:29:31.416
Well, that's affecting society in so many ways today where
00:29:31.416 --> 00:29:35.320
People are thinking, "i have no purpose in life.
00:29:35.320 --> 00:29:37.589
I'm just an accident.
00:29:37.589 --> 00:29:39.090
I just happened.
00:29:39.090 --> 00:29:40.458
I'm an--i'm a highly evolved animal," right?
00:29:40.458 --> 00:29:43.061
So we see things like teen suicide on the rise.
00:29:43.061 --> 00:29:45.830
We see things like 22 veteran suicides taking place every
00:29:45.830 --> 00:29:49.567
Single day.
00:29:49.567 --> 00:29:50.902
We see things like school shootings, and we have to ask
00:29:50.902 --> 00:29:53.104
Ourselves, why, why is this happening?
00:29:53.104 --> 00:29:55.640
Maybe because we are not taking a stand.
00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:58.476
Maybe it's because we've been telling children for the last
00:29:58.476 --> 00:30:01.880
Several generations that they have no purpose here on
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:04.816
This earth.
00:30:04.816 --> 00:30:06.184
Kirk: and that they're animals and that they can make up their
00:30:06.184 --> 00:30:09.654
Own moral constructs, because after all, animals take
00:30:09.654 --> 00:30:13.391
Advantage of weaker, younger animals, so if it's okay for
00:30:13.391 --> 00:30:17.662
Them, what's wrong with higher evolved animals doing the
00:30:17.662 --> 00:30:21.633
Same thing?
00:30:21.633 --> 00:30:23.001
David: yeah, that's a good point.
00:30:23.001 --> 00:30:24.869
Charles spurgeon once said, i mean, he's living in the same
00:30:24.869 --> 00:30:27.672
Time period as charles darwin, and he realizes what's happening
00:30:27.672 --> 00:30:31.109
In his age is a little bit dangerous.
00:30:31.109 --> 00:30:33.111
So he basically said, "a lot of these people who talk about
00:30:33.111 --> 00:30:37.115
Evolution are not caring about evolution in and of itself, but
00:30:37.115 --> 00:30:42.253
Only so far as it may serve their purpose of escaping from
00:30:42.253 --> 00:30:45.690
The thought of god."
00:30:45.690 --> 00:30:47.025
That's a quote from charles spurgeon, so it's not really
00:30:47.025 --> 00:30:49.727
About evolution.
00:30:49.727 --> 00:30:51.062
It's not really that it's the most intellectual position
00:30:51.062 --> 00:30:53.331
To take.
00:30:53.331 --> 00:30:54.666
What it's really about is creating yourself as your own
00:30:54.666 --> 00:30:58.369
Authority and being able to say, yeah, it's my truth.
00:30:58.369 --> 00:31:02.073
I know what's right and what's wrong for me, and it may be
00:31:02.073 --> 00:31:04.742
Different for you.
00:31:04.742 --> 00:31:07.145
Kirk: yeah, i wanna talk about your book, "21 bible verses
00:31:07.145 --> 00:31:10.214
Backed by science," but i'm just so fascinated in how you got to
00:31:10.214 --> 00:31:13.618
Where you are right now.
00:31:13.618 --> 00:31:14.986
I mean, you're not an old professor with glasses falling
00:31:14.986 --> 00:31:18.957
Off your nose and big bushy eyebrows, hard to understand.
00:31:18.957 --> 00:31:22.460
You're a young guy who's passionate about astronomy, not
00:31:22.460 --> 00:31:26.864
Astrology, but the cosmos, and you're passionate about dinosaur
00:31:26.864 --> 00:31:30.935
Digs and helping people create a beautiful culture for the next
00:31:30.935 --> 00:31:35.940
Generation by seeing reality through the lens of the bible.
00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:39.277
So, what was your world like as a little kid?
00:31:39.277 --> 00:31:41.779
Were you listening to biblical creationists?
00:31:41.779 --> 00:31:45.283
David: you know, i was--i received the lord at seven years
00:31:45.283 --> 00:31:48.286
Old, grew up in a strong christian family, but at eight,
00:31:48.286 --> 00:31:52.023
Here i am in middle tennessee.
00:31:52.023 --> 00:31:53.825
I'm digging in my backyard, and i started to find a rock.
00:31:53.825 --> 00:31:56.661
I realized that that rock was more than a rock.
00:31:56.661 --> 00:31:58.596
I was like, this is a fossil of some sort.
00:31:58.596 --> 00:32:01.966
So, i went to barnes and noble, grabbed a kid's identification
00:32:01.966 --> 00:32:05.269
Guide for fossils, right?
00:32:05.269 --> 00:32:07.005
And i'm flipping through it, and boom, there it was.
00:32:07.005 --> 00:32:09.674
I'm staring at it.
00:32:09.674 --> 00:32:11.009
It's a crinoid.
00:32:11.009 --> 00:32:12.543
It's a deep sea animal that lives at the bottoms of the
00:32:12.543 --> 00:32:16.381
Ocean, and i'm looking around and i was, i'm in tennessee.
00:32:16.381 --> 00:32:19.951
There's no sea anywhere near me, but you know what?
00:32:19.951 --> 00:32:22.520
The bible does talk about a massive flood, a big flood that
00:32:22.520 --> 00:32:26.224
Took place, so i guess tennessee, maybe it once was
00:32:26.224 --> 00:32:29.193
Underwater, if the bible is true.
00:32:29.193 --> 00:32:31.963
So, i began to collect those fossils and just develop this
00:32:31.963 --> 00:32:36.000
Passion for science.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.668
Fast forward to 16, and i love astronomy, like you.
00:32:37.668 --> 00:32:43.041
I look up there and i see those stars, and i'm like, every star
00:32:43.041 --> 00:32:45.943
Has a story, and those are just the ones we know about, right?
00:32:45.943 --> 00:32:49.414
Now we're seeing galaxies and nebulae and all of these
00:32:49.414 --> 00:32:52.517
Incredibly designed things.
00:32:52.517 --> 00:32:55.520
And i put that in quotes, "designed."
00:32:55.520 --> 00:32:58.156
These designed elements of the cosmos are pointing us to
00:32:58.156 --> 00:33:01.893
A designer.
00:33:01.893 --> 00:33:03.227
So, i started to connect cameras to the back of telescopes at 16
00:33:03.227 --> 00:33:06.330
Years old as a hobby.
00:33:06.330 --> 00:33:08.199
And boom, the first photo that i got, it was of the great
00:33:08.199 --> 00:33:12.403
Orion nebula.
00:33:12.403 --> 00:33:13.771
And kirk, i don't know if you've seen pictures of this, but it's
00:33:13.771 --> 00:33:17.175
In the constellation orion.
00:33:17.175 --> 00:33:18.843
Nebula is latin for cloud, so it's basically a cloud of dust
00:33:18.843 --> 00:33:21.879
In space.
00:33:21.879 --> 00:33:23.214
But it's the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.
00:33:23.214 --> 00:33:25.983
And my jaw hit the floor because i'd just taken a picture of what
00:33:25.983 --> 00:33:28.853
I'd seen hubble space photography of, and i'd always
00:33:28.853 --> 00:33:31.923
Assumed, yeah, they probably colored it or doctored it or
00:33:31.923 --> 00:33:34.625
Maybe made it look a little bit better than it should, you know,
00:33:34.625 --> 00:33:38.362
But it looked just as colorful and just as beautiful as i'd
00:33:38.362 --> 00:33:41.165
Always seen on the front page of magazines.
00:33:41.165 --> 00:33:44.335
And i said, "wow, the heavens declare the glory of god," just
00:33:44.335 --> 00:33:47.505
Like psalm 19 says.
00:33:47.505 --> 00:33:49.107
"the firmament shows his handiwork.
00:33:49.107 --> 00:33:51.142
Day after day utter speech, night after night shows
00:33:51.142 --> 00:33:53.478
Knowledge, and there's no speech where their voice is not heard."
00:33:53.478 --> 00:33:57.181
So i began speaking on astronomy and science as it relates to the
00:33:57.181 --> 00:34:02.220
Bible at a very early age.
00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:04.355
It took me around the world, first in tennessee, then
00:34:04.355 --> 00:34:07.859
Nationally, and then global speaking tours, and then the
00:34:07.859 --> 00:34:10.828
Next thing you know, oh, i'm getting invitations to speak at
00:34:10.828 --> 00:34:13.664
Dinosaur digs, then lead family dinosaur digs in the middle
00:34:13.664 --> 00:34:17.335
Of kansas.
00:34:17.335 --> 00:34:18.669
But then when i'm hosting these documentaries about animal
00:34:18.669 --> 00:34:21.572
Biology, it opens up the doors for me to start leading african
00:34:21.572 --> 00:34:25.643
Photo safaris for families, booking out entire reserves and
00:34:25.643 --> 00:34:29.280
Getting people close to god's creation.
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:31.616
Kirk: you say in some of your lectures and in your book that
00:34:31.616 --> 00:34:36.120
It appears as though modern science and those who lead those
00:34:36.120 --> 00:34:41.325
Disciplines are deliberately trying to divorce the scriptures
00:34:41.325 --> 00:34:45.363
From the world around us and teach that to children.
00:34:45.363 --> 00:34:50.101
Do you think that's true, and what are some examples of that?
00:34:50.101 --> 00:34:53.070
David: yeah, well, so it's absolutely true, and we're
00:34:53.070 --> 00:34:55.606
Seeing that going on because when i go speak at churches or
00:34:55.606 --> 00:34:59.677
Universities, i'll always-- usually there'll be a skeptic in
00:34:59.677 --> 00:35:02.780
The room, and that skeptic comes up and he says, "david, so,
00:35:02.780 --> 00:35:07.118
You're one of those christians, so i bet you believe in that
00:35:07.118 --> 00:35:09.453
Ancient collection of fables written by goat herders,
00:35:09.453 --> 00:35:12.456
Don't you?"
00:35:12.456 --> 00:35:13.824
To which i always--the famous atheist quote, right?
00:35:13.824 --> 00:35:17.028
To which i always say, "you know what?
00:35:17.028 --> 00:35:18.362
You got a portion of that correct.
00:35:18.362 --> 00:35:20.198
I am a christian.
00:35:20.198 --> 00:35:21.532
I do believe in an ancient collection of writings written
00:35:21.532 --> 00:35:23.834
By goat herders, written by shepherds, written by poets,
00:35:23.834 --> 00:35:27.371
Written by kings.
00:35:27.371 --> 00:35:28.739
Do you know what they weren't?
00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:30.074
They weren't scientists, and yet they got the science 100%
00:35:30.074 --> 00:35:33.277
Correct thousands of years ago.
00:35:33.277 --> 00:35:34.612
They got the history 100% correct thousands of years ago.
00:35:34.612 --> 00:35:37.715
They got the prophecy 100% correct.
00:35:37.715 --> 00:35:39.584
They got the gospel 100%.
00:35:39.584 --> 00:35:41.552
What are the chances that random shepherds and poets and goat
00:35:41.552 --> 00:35:45.990
Herders would all write down something that was 100%
00:35:45.990 --> 00:35:49.760
Scientifically true thousands of years down the road?
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:53.631
The only way is if the bible is what it claims to be, the
00:35:53.631 --> 00:35:56.634
Inspired word of god, inspired by the father himself."
00:35:56.634 --> 00:36:00.838
Kirk: and you've got 21 of these kinds of verses, and you're
00:36:00.838 --> 00:36:05.376
Backing them up with many of the discoveries that have been
00:36:05.376 --> 00:36:08.346
Found, and you talk about fossilized trees and, and these
00:36:08.346 --> 00:36:13.117
Little sea creatures at the bottom of the ocean found in
00:36:13.117 --> 00:36:16.487
Tennessee where there is no ocean.
00:36:16.487 --> 00:36:19.557
Is there one observation or discovery that would be powerful
00:36:19.557 --> 00:36:24.328
To convince a skeptic that you and i are intentionally made
00:36:24.328 --> 00:36:28.599
By god?
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:29.967
David: yeah, you know, it's one of the chapters of the book i
00:36:29.967 --> 00:36:32.503
Think really stands out to me.
00:36:32.503 --> 00:36:34.705
There's a verse that says that every house is built by some
00:36:34.705 --> 00:36:38.542
Man, but he that made all things is god.
00:36:38.542 --> 00:36:41.912
And i'm chewing that over in my brain one day, and i'm like,
00:36:41.912 --> 00:36:44.348
Okay, wait.
00:36:44.348 --> 00:36:45.716
So let's just say i'm walking through the woods one day, and i
00:36:45.716 --> 00:36:48.419
Happened upon a clearing, and there's a beautiful cabin in
00:36:48.419 --> 00:36:50.721
The clearing.
00:36:50.721 --> 00:36:52.223
The first thing that goes through my mind, kirk, is, you
00:36:52.223 --> 00:36:54.191
Know, i bet you millions of years ago, a tornado must have
00:36:54.191 --> 00:36:57.061
Started knocking trees down in the shape of a cabin, right?
00:36:57.061 --> 00:36:59.964
And then maybe a tornado or a hurricane blew sand up against
00:36:59.964 --> 00:37:03.768
The walls of the cabin and lightning struck the sand, and,
00:37:03.768 --> 00:37:06.837
You know, glass is formed when lightning strikes sand.
00:37:06.837 --> 00:37:09.807
So, i guess that's how the glass panes of the cabin came about.
00:37:09.807 --> 00:37:13.978
And then the sand blew away, and it's sitting here, a beautiful
00:37:13.978 --> 00:37:17.248
Cabin, right?
00:37:17.248 --> 00:37:18.616
And we could say, no, that's not right.
00:37:18.616 --> 00:37:20.151
We could laugh about it.
00:37:20.151 --> 00:37:21.919
But the most devout atheist on planet earth, the most--the
00:37:21.919 --> 00:37:27.158
Strongest skeptic on planet earth would laugh at that, and
00:37:27.158 --> 00:37:30.061
They would say, "david, that's ridiculous.
00:37:30.061 --> 00:37:32.029
Everybody knows that that house was built by somebody."
00:37:32.029 --> 00:37:34.732
To which i would say, absolutely.
00:37:34.732 --> 00:37:36.767
That's what the bible says.
00:37:36.767 --> 00:37:38.135
Every house is built by some man, but if that's obvious, the
00:37:38.135 --> 00:37:41.305
Second half of that verse is even more obvious.
00:37:41.305 --> 00:37:43.841
He that made all things is god.
00:37:43.841 --> 00:37:46.577
You know, one of my favorite examples of how 21 verses are
00:37:46.577 --> 00:37:50.381
Backed by science is the story of matthew fontaine maury, who's
00:37:50.381 --> 00:37:54.352
Known as pathfinder of the seas, and he's extremely ill one day.
00:37:54.352 --> 00:37:58.556
He's lying in bed, he doesn't know if he's gonna live or die.
00:37:58.556 --> 00:38:01.058
He's a naval commander, and his daughter comes in with a bible.
00:38:01.058 --> 00:38:04.628
She opens up the bible and she said, "i'm gonna read some
00:38:04.628 --> 00:38:06.797
Scripture to you.
00:38:06.797 --> 00:38:08.165
Hopefully you'll feel better."
00:38:08.165 --> 00:38:09.500
She turns to psalm 8 and she starts to read, "what is man
00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:12.503
That thou art mindful of him and the son of man that thou
00:38:12.503 --> 00:38:14.472
Visitest him?
00:38:14.472 --> 00:38:15.806
Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
00:38:15.806 --> 00:38:17.174
Crowned him with glory and honor.
00:38:17.174 --> 00:38:18.542
Whatsoever passeth through the paths of the sea, o lord, our
00:38:18.542 --> 00:38:21.912
Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth."
00:38:21.912 --> 00:38:24.348
And matthew sat up in bed at that moment, and he said, "paths
00:38:24.348 --> 00:38:27.618
Of the sea, paths of the sea.
00:38:27.618 --> 00:38:30.087
If i ever get out of this bed, i'm gonna figure out what
00:38:30.087 --> 00:38:32.156
It means."
00:38:32.156 --> 00:38:33.491
So, he took a simple verse in the book of psalms, and as
00:38:33.491 --> 00:38:37.128
A naval commander who used science, who observed the world
00:38:37.128 --> 00:38:40.898
Around him, he got better and he charted the ocean currents,
00:38:40.898 --> 00:38:44.902
Paths that ships still follow to this day.
00:38:44.902 --> 00:38:47.705
Now, what if every scientist on earth was following
00:38:47.705 --> 00:38:50.608
This pattern?
00:38:50.608 --> 00:38:51.942
They were using scripture as their foundation for truth,
00:38:51.942 --> 00:38:54.078
God's word as their foundation for truth, and then going out
00:38:54.078 --> 00:38:57.782
And discovering great things.
00:38:57.782 --> 00:39:00.251
Kirk: david, i'm eating this up.
00:39:00.251 --> 00:39:02.119
You are speaking my language, and i wanna get into more of the
00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:06.290
Bible verses that are backed by science.
00:39:06.290 --> 00:39:09.226
After the break, we're gonna talk more with david about
00:39:09.226 --> 00:39:11.662
Scientific evidence that proves the bible right and what happens
00:39:11.662 --> 00:39:15.766
To a culture that rejects biblical creation.
00:39:15.766 --> 00:39:18.836
We'll be right back.
00:39:18.836 --> 00:39:24.994
We'll be right back.
00:39:24.994 --> 00:39:28.646
Kirk: we are back, and we're talking to the founder and the
00:39:32.850 --> 00:39:35.186
Director of the wonders center and science museum, david rives,
00:39:35.186 --> 00:39:39.457
About his book, "21 verses backed by science."
00:39:39.457 --> 00:39:43.861
David, we spoke early in our discussion about the
00:39:43.861 --> 00:39:47.965
Consequences to a culture and particularly a young generation
00:39:47.965 --> 00:39:51.569
Of children who have been taught by professors, teachers, and
00:39:51.569 --> 00:39:57.475
Parents who reject the biblical account of creation.
00:39:57.475 --> 00:40:01.779
What begins to happen to that type of culture?
00:40:01.779 --> 00:40:04.482
David: you know, so there's this sort of underlying principle
00:40:04.482 --> 00:40:07.718
When it comes to the teachings of darwinian evolution, and i'm
00:40:07.718 --> 00:40:11.455
Not talking about, goodness, adaptation, no.
00:40:11.455 --> 00:40:14.358
Mutations, no.
00:40:14.358 --> 00:40:16.293
Survival of the fittest, absolutely, the fastest gazelle
00:40:16.293 --> 00:40:19.663
Is gonna get away from the lion.
00:40:19.663 --> 00:40:21.031
What i'm talking about is this idea of universal common
00:40:21.031 --> 00:40:23.567
Descent, the idea that everything in the universe
00:40:23.567 --> 00:40:26.170
Descended from a common ancestor and amoeba turned into a fish to
00:40:26.170 --> 00:40:29.540
A bird to ape to a human, right?
00:40:29.540 --> 00:40:31.775
Here's what that does.
00:40:31.775 --> 00:40:33.143
And i'll just give you one example, kirk, because if you go
00:40:33.143 --> 00:40:35.412
Back to the soviet union, you've got joseph stalin.
00:40:35.412 --> 00:40:40.050
Joseph stalin, leading the soviet union, and he is
00:40:40.050 --> 00:40:43.354
An atheist.
00:40:43.354 --> 00:40:44.688
He's promoting atheistic education in the public school
00:40:44.688 --> 00:40:47.625
System, right?
00:40:47.625 --> 00:40:48.993
He's killing millions and millions of people, and
00:40:48.993 --> 00:40:52.530
Everybody says, "well, why, why could you have such
00:40:52.530 --> 00:40:54.565
An evil person?"
00:40:54.565 --> 00:40:55.900
You know, there was a childhood friend that stalin was walking
00:40:55.900 --> 00:40:59.537
With one day, and he volunteered a pretty revealing statement.
00:40:59.537 --> 00:41:02.172
He said, "you know, they're fooling us.
00:41:02.172 --> 00:41:04.575
There is no god.
00:41:04.575 --> 00:41:05.943
I'll lend you a book to read, and it will show you that the
00:41:05.943 --> 00:41:08.379
World is quite different from what you imagined, and all this
00:41:08.379 --> 00:41:10.781
Talk about god, oh, it's sheer nonsense."
00:41:10.781 --> 00:41:12.950
And his friend is like, "joseph, what book are you
00:41:12.950 --> 00:41:15.553
Talking about?"
00:41:15.553 --> 00:41:16.887
He said, "darwin. you must read it."
00:41:16.887 --> 00:41:18.923
So, this was what influenced stalin at a young age to be able
00:41:18.923 --> 00:41:22.426
To say, "hey, we're nothing more than accidents, we're nothing
00:41:22.426 --> 00:41:24.929
More than animals, so therefore, i can do whatever i want to
00:41:24.929 --> 00:41:28.465
Another animal.
00:41:28.465 --> 00:41:29.800
I can say that this is justified, this evil, these
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:32.736
Murders that i'm committing," right?
00:41:32.736 --> 00:41:35.339
So, the same thing is actually being perpetuated today in so
00:41:35.339 --> 00:41:39.577
Many different areas, even if it comes to things like, i mean,
00:41:39.577 --> 00:41:43.681
Culturally hot topics like gender ideology.
00:41:43.681 --> 00:41:46.884
When you think about gender, it points us back to creation.
00:41:46.884 --> 00:41:51.155
If you think about gender identity, well, darwin says
00:41:51.155 --> 00:41:56.126
Anything goes, right?
00:41:56.126 --> 00:41:57.461
It's not--it's just whatever nature happens.
00:41:57.461 --> 00:41:59.597
But mother nature doesn't have a mind.
00:41:59.597 --> 00:42:02.132
You have to have an intelligence to create everything, and god
00:42:02.132 --> 00:42:06.370
Just so happened to create men male and he created
00:42:06.370 --> 00:42:09.907
Female, right?
00:42:09.907 --> 00:42:11.275
He created this whole unity that works together, and we're trying
00:42:11.275 --> 00:42:16.347
To get away from that, and if we're trying to find our
00:42:16.347 --> 00:42:18.816
Identity, what do we--how do we find that?
00:42:18.816 --> 00:42:20.584
Do we do it in our piercings or in our tattoos or in the way
00:42:20.584 --> 00:42:24.622
We dress?
00:42:24.622 --> 00:42:25.956
Or do we do it in our pronouns?
00:42:25.956 --> 00:42:27.791
Or do we do it by saying, "oh well, you know, i'm not actually
00:42:27.791 --> 00:42:30.327
A man"?
00:42:30.327 --> 00:42:31.695
Well, those kind of things are different ways for people to be
00:42:31.695 --> 00:42:34.531
Unique, but it's not the real way that we're unique.
00:42:34.531 --> 00:42:37.768
We're unique through christ.
00:42:37.768 --> 00:42:39.937
That's where we find our identity.
00:42:39.937 --> 00:42:42.139
And if you look at dna, for example, you see that it's like
00:42:42.139 --> 00:42:45.209
A written information language system.
00:42:45.209 --> 00:42:47.811
So, every person watching this right now has a book inside
00:42:47.811 --> 00:42:51.148
Of them.
00:42:51.148 --> 00:42:52.483
And if you wrote out that book, it would fill about 1,200
00:42:52.483 --> 00:42:55.019
Encyclopedia volumes, all right?
00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:57.454
But get this, that 1,200 encyclopedia volumes of
00:42:57.454 --> 00:43:01.091
Information that is your genetic code is found in nearly every
00:43:01.091 --> 00:43:04.795
Cell of your body.
00:43:04.795 --> 00:43:06.397
So, right now, every person watching this has enough
00:43:06.397 --> 00:43:10.501
Information inside of them to fill the entire library of
00:43:10.501 --> 00:43:13.103
Congress multiple times.
00:43:13.103 --> 00:43:14.738
And we say, "ah, but we're not unique.
00:43:14.738 --> 00:43:16.573
Ah, but we're not special.
00:43:16.573 --> 00:43:18.108
Ah, but we need to find our identity elsewhere."
00:43:18.108 --> 00:43:21.145
No, our book was written before we were even born by god, who
00:43:21.145 --> 00:43:26.183
Knew exactly what we were supposed to do with our lives.
00:43:26.183 --> 00:43:29.787
Kirk: you just made several points that i think we need to
00:43:29.787 --> 00:43:33.824
Stop and double click on those because many of us within the
00:43:33.824 --> 00:43:38.729
Family of faith are wondering why in the world are people
00:43:38.729 --> 00:43:42.466
Suddenly questioning whether or not they're a boy or a girl?
00:43:42.466 --> 00:43:45.469
This didn't happen when i was a kid.
00:43:45.469 --> 00:43:48.105
Why in the world does there appear to be a spike in anxiety
00:43:48.105 --> 00:43:53.510
And suicidal tendencies, children who are just wracked
00:43:53.510 --> 00:43:58.182
With all of these mental disorders?
00:43:58.182 --> 00:44:02.619
Could it be, as you've suggested, that when we get away
00:44:02.619 --> 00:44:07.057
From what the bible says about who we are and why we're here,
00:44:07.057 --> 00:44:12.129
We have allowed secularists to come in and teach our children
00:44:12.129 --> 00:44:16.967
That they're either accidents or animals.
00:44:16.967 --> 00:44:20.037
David: yeah, there's no doubt that that has played
00:44:20.037 --> 00:44:22.406
A significant role.
00:44:22.406 --> 00:44:23.741
And also another thing that's really just escalated things is
00:44:23.741 --> 00:44:26.910
The idea that, hey, we've got something in our pockets right
00:44:26.910 --> 00:44:29.480
Now called mobile phones.
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:31.115
And those mobile phones, you can find all of this information
00:44:31.115 --> 00:44:34.785
That feeds everything that you want to hear and the algorithm
00:44:34.785 --> 00:44:37.755
Is going to point that in that direction.
00:44:37.755 --> 00:44:41.425
But if we understood that we were fearfully and wonderfully
00:44:41.425 --> 00:44:44.762
Made, that we were made in god's image with a very purpose for
00:44:44.762 --> 00:44:49.466
Our existence, then i think we would see a society, families
00:44:49.466 --> 00:44:54.238
Who started to turn around and say, "well, now how can i use my
00:44:54.238 --> 00:44:58.408
God-given gifts to really impact the culture for good?"
00:44:58.408 --> 00:45:02.980
And that's where when families come and walk through the
00:45:02.980 --> 00:45:05.349
Wonders center and science museum and kids touch actual
00:45:05.349 --> 00:45:08.886
Meteorites that fell from space onto campo del cielo in
00:45:08.886 --> 00:45:12.222
Argentina, or they put their hands on a massive dinosaur
00:45:12.222 --> 00:45:15.726
Bone, an actual dinosaur bone from utah, from a camarasaurus,
00:45:15.726 --> 00:45:20.030
A long-neck sauropod that actually appears to be mentioned
00:45:20.030 --> 00:45:22.966
In the bible, all of a sudden science comes alive, light bulbs
00:45:22.966 --> 00:45:27.137
Go off, and they say, "wow, so i can really--i can actually
00:45:27.137 --> 00:45:31.341
Think for myself and be an intellectual and study these
00:45:31.341 --> 00:45:35.312
Things, but also it's pointing me right back to my
00:45:35.312 --> 00:45:38.482
Christian faith.
00:45:38.482 --> 00:45:40.017
Whoa, i never knew this."
00:45:40.017 --> 00:45:41.985
Kirk: i'm so excited about this because i'm that guy who likes
00:45:41.985 --> 00:45:45.122
To try to analyze and figure stuff out, and one of the things
00:45:45.122 --> 00:45:48.525
That i love about your museum is that you've got
00:45:48.525 --> 00:45:50.794
This planetarium.
00:45:50.794 --> 00:45:52.129
You talk about the grandeur of the cosmos.
00:45:52.129 --> 00:45:55.065
What will people see in the planetarium and how will that
00:45:55.065 --> 00:45:57.901
Point them back to the creator?
00:45:57.901 --> 00:45:59.436
David: yeah, absolutely.
00:45:59.436 --> 00:46:00.771
When you go into the planetarium, you're seated in
00:46:00.771 --> 00:46:03.340
These reclining chairs.
00:46:03.340 --> 00:46:04.708
You've got a 60-foot full dome wrapped around you.
00:46:04.708 --> 00:46:07.811
So, you're seeing almost 8k resolution across this massive
00:46:07.811 --> 00:46:12.316
Movie screen.
00:46:12.316 --> 00:46:13.650
You're floating past galaxies and planets.
00:46:13.650 --> 00:46:16.153
You are learning about how the entire universe shows the very
00:46:16.153 --> 00:46:19.189
Fingerprints of god's design, from the farthest galaxy in the
00:46:19.189 --> 00:46:22.860
Cosmos to the microscopic structure of our dna, and then
00:46:22.860 --> 00:46:26.230
It points back to how the heavens declare the glory
00:46:26.230 --> 00:46:28.398
Of god.
00:46:28.398 --> 00:46:29.733
And we don't even stop there, kirk, because actually, after
00:46:29.733 --> 00:46:32.002
Every planetarium show, i have two 1 million volt tesla coils
00:46:32.002 --> 00:46:37.708
At the bottom of the planetarium, not in a faraday
00:46:37.708 --> 00:46:40.177
Cage, not behind glass.
00:46:40.177 --> 00:46:41.545
No, we put you in the same room with 1 million volts of
00:46:41.545 --> 00:46:44.982
Electricity, pulsing that electricity at frequencies that
00:46:44.982 --> 00:46:48.652
Creates music, no speakers attached.
00:46:48.652 --> 00:46:51.421
So, you're sitting here watching a lightning show in the same
00:46:51.421 --> 00:46:54.358
Room with the lightning, and you're hearing musical notes
00:46:54.358 --> 00:46:58.128
Produced through those frequencies.
00:46:58.128 --> 00:47:00.163
Kirk: what's something that we have discovered out in space,
00:47:00.163 --> 00:47:04.501
Maybe even a little more recently, that has got atheists
00:47:04.501 --> 00:47:09.072
Scratching their head and theists pointing to the bible?
00:47:09.072 --> 00:47:14.244
David: you know, it actually-- there's a very interesting point
00:47:14.244 --> 00:47:17.814
Within cosmology, or secular cosmology, where they say,
00:47:17.814 --> 00:47:22.619
"you know what?
00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:23.987
We kind of think we have this idea on how the universe formed,
00:47:23.987 --> 00:47:27.057
And we think maybe it's a big bang 14 billion years ago, and
00:47:27.057 --> 00:47:30.994
We think that that's maybe how time and space was created."
00:47:30.994 --> 00:47:35.332
And you're like, okay, well, how was the matter created?
00:47:35.332 --> 00:47:39.236
And they're like, "oh well, we don't know."
00:47:39.236 --> 00:47:41.471
"well, wait a second, your best secular theory on the origin of
00:47:41.471 --> 00:47:46.109
The universe doesn't even attempt to discuss where
00:47:46.109 --> 00:47:49.112
Everything, like everything in this room, everything we're made
00:47:49.112 --> 00:47:51.081
Out of, comes from?"
00:47:51.081 --> 00:47:53.216
There is this huge gap in secular science where they can't
00:47:53.216 --> 00:47:58.155
Explain the origin of matter because there's a law in physics
00:47:58.155 --> 00:48:02.192
And science, and that's the first law of thermodynamics.
00:48:02.192 --> 00:48:04.594
It states that energy can't be created.
00:48:04.594 --> 00:48:07.197
Einstein, a pretty brilliant guy, he said, "you know what?
00:48:07.197 --> 00:48:09.599
That applies to matter too, so matter can't be created.
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.336
It can only change shapes."
00:48:12.336 --> 00:48:14.504
So, where did all the matter in the universe come from?
00:48:14.504 --> 00:48:16.807
It had to come from not science, not the laws and physics of the
00:48:16.807 --> 00:48:20.477
Universe, but from someone outside of the universe that can
00:48:20.477 --> 00:48:24.181
Only be the god of the bible who spoke the world into existence,
00:48:24.181 --> 00:48:28.352
Who made all of the matter, and then he fashioned it into this
00:48:28.352 --> 00:48:32.155
Beautiful planet that we call earth, which is so perfect for
00:48:32.155 --> 00:48:35.192
Our existence.
00:48:35.192 --> 00:48:36.693
But you know what the thing that makes it the most perfect?
00:48:36.693 --> 00:48:39.329
Is the fact that god loved us enough that he sent his only
00:48:39.329 --> 00:48:41.598
Begotten son to this tiny little speck in space to live, die, and
00:48:41.598 --> 00:48:45.802
Be raised again so that we could be a part of his family
00:48:45.802 --> 00:48:48.138
For eternity.
00:48:48.138 --> 00:48:49.973
Kirk: i love that.
00:48:49.973 --> 00:48:52.442
What do you hope people will take away from this book?
00:48:52.442 --> 00:48:55.312
David: i hope people will have a renewed confidence in the word
00:48:55.312 --> 00:48:58.415
Of god.
00:48:58.415 --> 00:48:59.750
It's not just a bunch of poems.
00:48:59.750 --> 00:49:02.252
It's not something that we should take lightly.
00:49:02.252 --> 00:49:04.187
It's not something that should be gathering dust on a shelf.
00:49:04.187 --> 00:49:06.957
We need to pick it back up, read it for what it actually says,
00:49:06.957 --> 00:49:10.160
And watch the explosion of knowledge and scientific growth
00:49:10.160 --> 00:49:14.197
That we would see if we trained our young people, our
00:49:14.197 --> 00:49:17.367
Grandchildren, our children to think that way.
00:49:17.367 --> 00:49:20.170
And so, that's what the book is all about.
00:49:20.170 --> 00:49:22.339
Kirk: thank you so much.
00:49:22.339 --> 00:49:23.707
Thanks for coming on "takeaways."
00:49:23.707 --> 00:49:25.042
Thanks for encouraging me.
00:49:25.042 --> 00:49:26.376
After the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:49:26.376 --> 00:49:33.995
After the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:49:33.995 --> 00:49:38.288
Kirk: i really enjoyed our conversations today with
00:49:42.359 --> 00:49:44.628
Dr. john g. west and david rives.
00:49:44.628 --> 00:49:47.664
It's so important to realize that the truth of god's word
00:49:47.664 --> 00:49:50.867
Isn't just for sunday mornings.
00:49:50.867 --> 00:49:53.036
It applies to every area of our lives, from the way we lead our
00:49:53.036 --> 00:49:56.606
Churches and families to the way we understand the stars in
00:49:56.606 --> 00:50:00.243
The sky.
00:50:00.243 --> 00:50:01.578
Let's look at a couple of our takeaways.
00:50:01.578 --> 00:50:04.514
Don't bankroll the problem.
00:50:04.514 --> 00:50:07.150
Dr. west gave us a wake-up call about stockholm syndrome
00:50:07.150 --> 00:50:10.987
Christianity and how we often support the very institutions
00:50:10.987 --> 00:50:15.826
That are attacking our faith and values.
00:50:15.826 --> 00:50:18.395
And so, he challenged us to take stock of where we're giving our
00:50:18.395 --> 00:50:22.132
Time and money.
00:50:22.132 --> 00:50:23.800
This week, do an audit of your giving.
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:26.703
Make sure your tithes and offerings and tuition dollars
00:50:26.703 --> 00:50:30.474
Are going to churches and schools that actually stand on
00:50:30.474 --> 00:50:34.244
The authority of the bible.
00:50:34.244 --> 00:50:37.080
Reclaim your child's brain.
00:50:37.080 --> 00:50:40.283
If we don't teach our children, internet algorithms will.
00:50:40.283 --> 00:50:45.155
Teaching our children starts with us.
00:50:45.155 --> 00:50:48.325
We are an information saturated society, but too many christians
00:50:48.325 --> 00:50:52.796
And even their children are getting their news from sources
00:50:52.796 --> 00:50:56.733
That don't share our worldview.
00:50:56.733 --> 00:50:59.669
Dr. west encouraged us to a new habit today by seeking out solid
00:50:59.669 --> 00:51:05.175
Biblical christian sources of information and then make those
00:51:05.175 --> 00:51:09.646
Your first stop.
00:51:09.646 --> 00:51:11.114
If we only listen to godless secular voices, it'll eventually
00:51:11.114 --> 00:51:15.051
Shape how we think and how we raise our kids.
00:51:15.051 --> 00:51:19.055
We cannot send our kids to caesar and be surprised if they
00:51:19.055 --> 00:51:23.293
Come back romans.
00:51:23.293 --> 00:51:26.096
You are a masterpiece.
00:51:26.096 --> 00:51:28.765
David rives showed us how modern science is actually catching up
00:51:28.765 --> 00:51:33.069
To what the bible has said all along.
00:51:33.069 --> 00:51:36.072
When the world tells our children that they're just star
00:51:36.072 --> 00:51:39.543
Stuff or just evolved animals, the heavens are actually
00:51:39.543 --> 00:51:44.681
Declaring the glory of god, so take your kids or grandkids
00:51:44.681 --> 00:51:49.920
Outside tonight, look at the stars, and remind them that they
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:53.456
Are fearfully and wonderfully made by the one who created
00:51:53.456 --> 00:51:57.894
All that star stuff and who knows them by name.
00:51:57.894 --> 00:52:03.266
Let the bible be your lens.
00:52:03.266 --> 00:52:06.036
David's book, "21 verses backed by science," reminds us that the
00:52:06.036 --> 00:52:10.407
Bible is the ultimate foundation for truth.
00:52:10.407 --> 00:52:13.877
And when we use scripture as our lens, we don't have to fear
00:52:13.877 --> 00:52:18.648
Scientific discovery.
00:52:18.648 --> 00:52:20.016
In fact, we can celebrate it and look forward to them.
00:52:20.016 --> 00:52:23.853
So this week, pick one of the verses david mentioned, like
00:52:23.853 --> 00:52:27.157
Psalm 19, verse 1, and study it with your family to see how
00:52:27.157 --> 00:52:32.128
God's handiwork is visible in the world around you.
00:52:32.128 --> 00:52:36.933
That's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:36.933 --> 00:52:38.702
Thanks for watching.
00:52:38.702 --> 00:52:40.070
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John G. West;David Rives: Holding Firm to Biblical Christianity in Today’s World | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

February 23, 2026 | 53:15

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