Joshua Becker & Dawn Madsen: Keeping it Simple to Enjoy Life Better | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

June 8, 2026 | 53:10

Kirk Cameron is joined by Joshua Becker and Dawn Madsen sharing how a minimalist lifestyle enables us to enjoy a more stress free and peaceful life with family and God.

#Lifestyle #Author #Culture #Faith #Peace #Greed #SeekGod #KirkCameron

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Joshua Becker & Dawn Madsen: Keeping it Simple to Enjoy Life Better | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | June 8, 2026

Kirk cameron: if you are at home watching this program, i want
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You to look around the room.
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What do you see?
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Is it a lot of stuff, maybe stuff you don't need, stuff you
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Don't use, stuff that's in the way?
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Maybe there's more stuff in the attic and then out in the garage
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Or a storage unit.
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Old clothes, broken toys, empty boxes, garage sale trinkets,
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Things that pile up, and before you know it, it becomes a
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Mountain full of stuff that is in your way.
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Well, our guests today, joshua becker and dawn madsen, will
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Offer some advice and practical tips on getting rid of and
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Organizing all that stuff so that you can have more peace
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With less clutter.
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Joshua becker: life is not found in the abundance of possessions.
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He talks about greed, and then he talks about worry, and then
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He says seek first the kingdom of god, and all these things
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Will be added unto you.
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Dawn madsen: it was through that process of decluttering,
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Simplifying, finding peace in my home, me having more peace, more
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Time to spend on spiritual practices.
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It was such a domino effect, and again, i sometimes even struggle
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To put words to the impact that it has made on my life.
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Kirk: it's all coming up on "takeaways."
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[music]
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Kirk: it's a pleasure to have the best-selling author of "the
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More of less" and "the minimalist home," joshua becker,
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To "takeaways."
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He's the founder of becoming minimalist, a website dedicated
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To inspiring others to find more life by owning less.
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His latest book is called "uncluttered faith: own less,
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Love more, and make an impact in your world."
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Joshua, thanks so much for coming to "takeaways."
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Joshua: thank you for having me, it's a great conversation.
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Kirk: it is, and i find myself always wanting to lean in to
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These principles of owning less, because you gotta manage stuff,
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You gotta take care of stuff, and the less i have, i don't
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Know, i think the simpler it gets, but amazon makes it so
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Difficult for me to stay there, because i always want
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More stuff.
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Joshua: yeah.
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Kirk: so, let's just start with the concept for those who aren't
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Familiar with it, what is minimalism?
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Is that--it sounds like a form of eschatology.
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Joshua: yeah, well, who knows how many forms of eschatology
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There are, maybe it is.
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Kirk: that's millennialism, what's minimalism?
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Joshua: so, minimalism at its surface would be about
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Intentionally owning fewer possessions, but it's not just
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About owning less for the sake of owning less.
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It's about owning less because we know that our lives were
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Created for something more important and more meaningful
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Than what this world could offer.
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So i define minimalism as the intentional promotion of the
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Things i most value by removing anything that distracts me
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From it.
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So i want to minimize distractions so that i can focus
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More of my life on meaning and purpose, joy,
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Fulfillment, significance.
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Kirk: okay, that's excellent.
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I like that, because sometimes i think of minimalism is like, all
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Right, this is just a person who secretly wants to be a monk.
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Joshua: right.
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Kirk: they just want to have the orange toga and shave their head
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And say, okay, life is simple, i like it like this, but you're
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Saying no, it's so that you're removing the distractions and
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Have more time and more ability to really lean into the things
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That matter most.
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Joshua: absolutely, which will always look different from one
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Person to another, from one family to another.
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We even see it in the new testament where jesus calls the
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Disciples, and he says, "hey, get rid of your nets and boats,
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Come follow me, i'm gonna make you fishers of men."
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In mark chapter 5 jesus heals a demon-possessed man.
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The demon-possessed man comes to jesus as they're getting on the
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Boat, and he's like, "i'm ready, where are we going?"
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And jesus says, "no, no, you go back home, live in your town,
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Live in your city," and so even the call that jesus places on
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Our life concerning what our goal is in life, what the good
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Work is that he wants for us to accomplish, is going to
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Determine what possessions i need to own in order to do that.
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It's going to look different if i'm single in my twenties or
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Homeschooling six kids.
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It's going to look different if i'm living in the city or in the
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Country, if i'm an artist or a writer or an architect or a
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Teacher or a missionary.
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So, minimalism, the idea of owning less so i can focus on
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Things that matter most, is always going to play out a
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Little bit different in everybody's life.
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Kirk: i'm really glad that you said that, because some might
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Think that there's a one-size-fits-all version, and
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It's i need black shirts, and i need khaki pants, and, well, no.
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It could be something totally different based on the call that
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God's placed on your life, what your particular vocation might
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Be, your family situation.
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Paul even said there's gonna be some people who aren't married,
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And you're gonna have, then, a minimalist lifestyle without a
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Wife to be able to do certain things that perhaps you were
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Made to do.
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Joshua: yeah, yeah, yeah, ephesians 2:10, that we are
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God's workmanship, creating christ jesus to do good works
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Which he prepared in advance for us to do.
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For me, now there are some people who can pursue minimalism
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From a secular viewpoint, and they're like i just want to own
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Less stuff so i can retire as early as possible or save as
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Much money as i possibly can or travel the world.
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Like, there might be other reasons why someone might choose
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To live a minimalist life, but i think for us who are following
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Christ, and our goal is to glorify god with our lives and
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Our hearts and our resources and strength and heart and soul,
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Then i want to own less of the world so that i can focus more
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Of my resources on the good work that god has prepared in advance
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For me to do.
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Kirk: so, what motivated you 15 years ago to enter
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Into this minimalist lifestyle?
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By the way, do you own a house? do you own a car?
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Do you have another shirt, or do you just have one?
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Joshua: and i look good in a black shirt and khaki pants, so
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For some people it works great.
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Kirk: okay.
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Joshua: yes, we own a home.
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As a matter of fact, we moved to phoenix to help plant a church,
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And there's a specific neighborhood that we were gonna
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Be planting this church in, and so we felt like god wanted us to
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Live in this specific neighborhood.
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So, i discovered minimalism 17 years ago.
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I was living in vermont, i had-- we had two kids, me and my wife,
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We had two kids.
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My son was five, my daughter was two.
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It's been this long winter,
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We were gonna do our spring cleaning on this specific
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Saturday of this memorial day weekend.
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I have my five-year-old son with me thinking that he's gonna love
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Cleaning out the garage with his father, that we're gonna have
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This bonding time over the garage, and he lasts about 20
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Seconds, and he's in the backyard asking me to come play
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Catch and throw the wiffle ball to him, and i'm cleaning out the
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Garage, one thing leads to another, hours later i'm still
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Working on the same garage.
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I happened to strike up a conversation with my neighbor,
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Complaining about how long this project had lasted with my son
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Begging me to come play with him, and she says, "you know,
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That's why my daughter is a minimalist.
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She keeps telling me i don't need to own all this stuff."
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And i remember looking at this pile of dirty, dusty things
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Piled up in my driveway i'd spent all morning taking care
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Of, and out of the corner of my eye i see my five-year-old son
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Swinging alone on the swing set in the backyard where he'd been
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All morning long, and i suddenly realized that my possessions
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Weren't making me happy, which we would all say, right?
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I'm not looking for happiness in the things that i buy.
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But i noticed that not only were my things not making me happy,
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But they were actually taking me away from the very thing that
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Did bring me happiness in life, and not just happiness, but joy
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And meaning and purpose.
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And for me, that was the start of our journey.
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We went through our home, it took us about 9 months, got rid
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Of 60%, 70% of our possessions, and i think once we realize that
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Our things aren't just not making us happy, they might
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Actually be keeping us from god's calling in our life, i
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Think that's the light bulb moment when minimalism starts to
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Make sense for people.
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Kirk: i think the light bulb is going off for a lot of people
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Right now.
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They think i know i've got that storage unit, i've been paying
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That rental fee for 10 years now, maybe 20 years, and we're
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Not going in there, but i can't part with all of this stuff that
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I have.
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You see these shows on tv with these pack rats.
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People are storing stuff for decades, and you gotta go in
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There and practically just blow the place up, because you,
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You know?
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And we're--many of us are not that bad, but we're just
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Consumed with managing all the things that we have and we want
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To be good stewards of those things because god's given them
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To us, but what if we just eliminated 60%, 70% of those
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Things, what that would leave is the 20%, 30%, 40% of things that
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Maybe matter most that we're supposed to be focusing
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On anyway.
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Joshua: yeah, and it would free up time, less time to clean,
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Less time to manage your stuff.
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It would free up money, less time paying for the storage
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Unit, or just less time buying the things that come into
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Our life.
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There's more calm and rest.
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There's less stress.
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I think that there's more focus in life.
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There's more mental energy that we can direct towards
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Other things.
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I think we've become a better example for our kids.
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I think there's more opportunity for contentment and gratitude
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And generosity to emerge in our life when we do that.
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I'll give you one stat that's unbelievable.
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The average american home has tripled in size in the last 50
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Years, and still over 10% of americans rent off-site storage.
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And the american family is smaller today than it was 50
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Years ago.
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And so we think it's normal, like we think this is just how
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Everyone lives, and most of us have a far bigger house than our
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Grandparents ever had and yet still want the bigger house in
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The nicer neighborhood.
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Kirk: and still need an off-site storage unit, and we have fewer
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People in our house.
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Joshua: yeah, and there's not even the--i don't think most
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People realize that we are living life today owning more
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Possessions than at any point in human history, and it's taking a
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Toll on us.
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"the new york times" called the modern american generation the
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Most tired, hurried, stressed generation of all time, no doubt
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Because we're all just taking care of more stuff than we ever
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Had before.
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Kirk: i've got this eerie feeling as i'm thinking of the
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Story of the man who got all these--this stuff because he
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Did work so hard and did so well, and he's storing it up in
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Barns, and we know that the story doesn't end well for
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That guy.
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And he ought to be giving that stuff away to those who need it
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Instead of storing it up for himself.
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Speaking of the bible, how has this discovering minimalism
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Changed what you have seen about the life of jesus and the
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Disciples in the scriptures?
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Joshua: yeah, i was 15 years as a pastor, i grew up going to
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Church, i knew full well everything that the bible had to
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Say about owning less and giving away your possessions and being
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Generous to the poor, and yet i say it took my unbelieving
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Neighbor to introduce me to what jesus was actually inviting
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Us to.
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We started owning less, and we discovered all these benefits,
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All these good things coming into our life that we've already
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Talked about.
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We're decluttering like our third bathroom of the house, and
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I turned to kim, and i said, "minimalism has been so freeing.
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Like, i never--we didn't need to own all that stuff.
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Like, where's this been my entire life?
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How come no one told me about minimalism before?"
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And i catch myself mid-sentence, because, of course, my neighbor
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Wasn't the first person to invite me to owning less or talk
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About the benefits of owning just what we need.
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Jesus was saying the same thing thousands of years ago, but for
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Some reason, kirk, i don't know how to explain it other than i
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Knew what jesus had to say about being generous with our things,
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And yet for some reason i just had this sense that if i
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Actually followed through with it, that life would be really
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Boring or difficult or, like, it was a test of my faith, some of
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Those teachings in there, until i started actually doing it, and
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I discovered, no, jesus just knew the best way to live, that
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Life isn't found in the abundance of possessions, that
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Life is best found when we intentionally commit all of
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Ourselves to following him.
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And just like everything else that jesus taught, it's all
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About this is a better way to live, to enjoy the kingdom's
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Blessings today rather than what the world is offering.
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Kirk: that's right, and to be focused on giving to others.
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Joshua: yeah.
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Kirk: but i think you're exactly right, he's been saying that
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All along.
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What did he say to the rich young ruler?
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Joshua: yeah, sell your possessions, give to the poor,
00:12:37.179 --> 00:12:40.316
Come follow me, and you'll have treasures in heaven.
00:12:40.316 --> 00:12:43.285
And i've heard that story preached dozens of times, and
00:12:43.285 --> 00:12:46.856
Every time the pastor says now, i know jesus said sell your
00:12:46.856 --> 00:12:50.292
Possessions and give to the poor, but jesus didn't really
00:12:50.292 --> 00:12:53.429
Mean sell your possessions and give to the poor.
00:12:53.429 --> 00:12:56.632
Jesus meant whatever is keeping you from following him is what
00:12:56.632 --> 00:13:00.536
You need to give up, and everyone in the church breathes
00:13:00.536 --> 00:13:04.673
A sigh of relief.
00:13:04.673 --> 00:13:06.275
Kirk: oh, that doesn't apply to me.
00:13:06.275 --> 00:13:07.643
Joshua: that they don't actually have to get rid of their stuff.
00:13:07.643 --> 00:13:10.746
Meanwhile, as if all the stuff we own, all the stuff we're
00:13:10.746 --> 00:13:14.016
Spending money on, and time and energy on, isn't the very thing
00:13:14.016 --> 00:13:17.586
Keeping us from fully following jesus as closely as we
00:13:17.586 --> 00:13:20.322
Possibly can.
00:13:20.322 --> 00:13:21.657
Kirk: i wanna dive into so much more.
00:13:21.657 --> 00:13:23.025
I wanna talk about the love of money, we love that verse, too,
00:13:23.025 --> 00:13:27.029
Because we can say, oh, i can keep all of my money, and i can
00:13:27.029 --> 00:13:29.632
Keep all of my stuff, i just can't love that stuff or the
00:13:29.632 --> 00:13:33.135
Money, but could it be that it's actually keeping us from the
00:13:33.135 --> 00:13:35.504
Most joyful, others-focused, god-honoring life in
00:13:35.504 --> 00:13:38.974
The process?
00:13:38.974 --> 00:13:40.342
We'll get to that.
00:13:40.342 --> 00:13:41.677
We're gonna continue talking more with joshua about how
00:13:41.677 --> 00:13:43.512
Owning less frees us up to love more
00:13:43.512 --> 00:13:46.782
And make an impact on those around us.
00:13:46.782 --> 00:13:49.084
So, we'll be right back after the break.
00:13:49.084 --> 00:13:51.086
[music]
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[music]
00:13:56.009 --> 00:13:56.436
[music]
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Kirk: we're back with bestselling author, joshua
00:14:03.176 --> 00:14:04.978
Becker, discussing his new book, "uncluttered faith: own less,
00:14:04.978 --> 00:14:09.349
Love more, and make an impact in your world."
00:14:09.349 --> 00:14:12.018
That's what i wanna do.
00:14:12.018 --> 00:14:13.353
I wanna own less, because i don't have to manage so
00:14:13.353 --> 00:14:15.555
Much stuff.
00:14:15.555 --> 00:14:16.923
And it costs money to take care of stuff.
00:14:16.923 --> 00:14:19.993
Let me ask you a question, how did your time and your
00:14:19.993 --> 00:14:23.330
Relationships change when you started living this kind of
00:14:23.330 --> 00:14:26.866
A lifestyle?
00:14:26.866 --> 00:14:28.768
Joshua: well, i think that most people have no idea how much of
00:14:28.768 --> 00:14:33.606
A burden their possessions have become until they begin to
00:14:33.606 --> 00:14:38.178
Remove them.
00:14:38.178 --> 00:14:39.512
And so as we began owning less, getting rid of more and more
00:14:39.512 --> 00:14:44.317
Stuff, i was shocked how much time it freed up.
00:14:44.317 --> 00:14:49.889
The average american spends two hours a day on their physical
00:14:49.889 --> 00:14:53.293
Possessions, whether it be shopping, cleaning, organizing.
00:14:53.293 --> 00:14:57.163
I was surprised at how much money i was wasting buying
00:14:57.163 --> 00:15:00.200
Things i didn't need.
00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:01.534
The average american spends over $1500 a month on things that
00:15:01.534 --> 00:15:04.504
They don't need.
00:15:04.504 --> 00:15:05.872
I was shocked at how much energy was going into caring for my
00:15:05.872 --> 00:15:09.542
Home and caring for my stuff, how much thought and mental
00:15:09.542 --> 00:15:14.247
Energy and focus was on how can i get the money to go buy the
00:15:14.247 --> 00:15:18.485
Next thing, or where's the sale taking place that allows me to
00:15:18.485 --> 00:15:22.022
Buy the new thing?
00:15:22.022 --> 00:15:23.456
And so when that pursuit gets removed, when that weight of
00:15:23.456 --> 00:15:28.361
Physical possessions gets removed, our lives are freed up
00:15:28.361 --> 00:15:31.965
To pursue on whatever it is that we want to be spending our life
00:15:31.965 --> 00:15:37.070
Pursuing on.
00:15:37.070 --> 00:15:38.405
As a follower of jesus, knowing that relationships are so
00:15:38.405 --> 00:15:40.840
Important, then this became a natural place for me to begin
00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:44.377
Spending more time and focus and energy, on my family around me,
00:15:44.377 --> 00:15:49.616
The people around me, the people that i wanted to help around me.
00:15:49.616 --> 00:15:53.520
Minimalism just freed up calm and less stress, and even--
00:15:53.520 --> 00:16:00.193
I would explain it as even more confidence in my life, if you
00:16:00.193 --> 00:16:04.397
Could--if i could say it that way.
00:16:04.397 --> 00:16:05.799
Like, when we are being intentionally--intentional
00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:09.135
Following god's plan for our life, i think it brings more joy
00:16:09.135 --> 00:16:13.339
Into our day, we get excited when we wake up in the morning,
00:16:13.339 --> 00:16:16.376
We have more confidence about where we're spending our time,
00:16:16.376 --> 00:16:19.112
Which i think allows us to be more open in our relationships
00:16:19.112 --> 00:16:22.649
And connect more with other people as well.
00:16:22.649 --> 00:16:24.484
So, i mean, i can go on and on.
00:16:24.484 --> 00:16:26.553
Kirk: i know you can, i know you can.
00:16:26.553 --> 00:16:29.155
This sounds--it's so attractive to hear somebody say, man, i
00:16:29.155 --> 00:16:33.226
Feel lighter, freer, i'm traveling, i'm agile, i can do
00:16:33.226 --> 00:16:37.530
Things 'cause i'm not weighed down, i'm not anchored by all
00:16:37.530 --> 00:16:40.166
This stuff i gotta manage and take care of and draining my
00:16:40.166 --> 00:16:43.036
Bank account.
00:16:43.036 --> 00:16:44.404
Like, i think all of us want that.
00:16:44.404 --> 00:16:45.738
Joshua: yeah, so luke chapter 12, we alluded to earlier, this
00:16:45.738 --> 00:16:49.242
Is where jesus tells the story of the farmer who's really
00:16:49.242 --> 00:16:52.879
Successful, built the big barns, and then his life is taken
00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.082
From him.
00:16:56.082 --> 00:16:57.450
Jesus said what a foolish way to spend your money, building
00:16:57.450 --> 00:16:59.152
Bigger barns and storing all your stuff.
00:16:59.152 --> 00:17:01.421
Fascinatingly, the average barn about that time would have been
00:17:01.421 --> 00:17:04.657
500 square feet.
00:17:04.657 --> 00:17:06.459
So, think about how we live our lives today.
00:17:06.459 --> 00:17:09.395
Like the homes that we're building, the homes that we're
00:17:09.395 --> 00:17:11.798
Investing in are four times as big as the barn that the farmer
00:17:11.798 --> 00:17:15.502
Got chastised for building.
00:17:15.502 --> 00:17:17.036
Kirk: yeah, but it's a house, it's not a barn, right?
00:17:17.036 --> 00:17:18.872
Joshua: exactly, good point.
00:17:18.872 --> 00:17:20.206
Sure, that makes it easier, huh?
00:17:20.206 --> 00:17:22.442
The storage unit.
00:17:22.442 --> 00:17:24.244
The very next passage is all about worry, and jesus says,
00:17:24.244 --> 00:17:30.216
"therefore, don't worry about your food, your clothing,
00:17:30.216 --> 00:17:34.587
Your shelter."
00:17:34.587 --> 00:17:35.922
It's the same conversation.
00:17:35.922 --> 00:17:37.724
It's about life is not found in the abundance of possessions.
00:17:37.724 --> 00:17:41.494
He talks about greed, and then he talks about worry, and then
00:17:41.494 --> 00:17:45.732
He says, "seek first the kingdom of god, and all these things
00:17:45.732 --> 00:17:48.568
Will be added unto you."
00:17:48.568 --> 00:17:50.470
And the thing that most of us don't realize is that greed and
00:17:50.470 --> 00:17:54.174
Worry produce the exact same effect on our lives.
00:17:54.174 --> 00:17:59.512
When i'm greedy, i keep more than i need.
00:17:59.512 --> 00:18:03.449
When i worry, i keep more than i need.
00:18:03.449 --> 00:18:07.187
And so when i'm able to overcome worry, when i'm able to overcome
00:18:07.187 --> 00:18:10.957
Fear, when i'm able to seek-- that's why he ends this passage
00:18:10.957 --> 00:18:14.494
With seek first the kingdom of god, and all these things will
00:18:14.494 --> 00:18:17.263
Be added unto you.
00:18:17.263 --> 00:18:18.631
When i'm faithful with my money, when i'm faithful with my time
00:18:18.631 --> 00:18:22.335
And talents and energy, then i have nothing to fear, because
00:18:22.335 --> 00:18:26.406
God is gonna take care of me always and forever.
00:18:26.406 --> 00:18:30.643
Kirk: have you found that to be true as you've divested yourself
00:18:30.643 --> 00:18:33.213
Of more and more things?
00:18:33.213 --> 00:18:34.547
Do you ever think like, man, i should hang on to that?
00:18:34.547 --> 00:18:37.150
I'm gonna need that one day, or do you feel like, no, he just
00:18:37.150 --> 00:18:39.786
Continues to renew the resources to take care of you?
00:18:39.786 --> 00:18:42.655
Joshua: i'll tell you a story.
00:18:42.655 --> 00:18:43.990
Well, yes, certainly always renews the resources.
00:18:43.990 --> 00:18:47.260
Ten years ago when i wrote my first book, "the more of less"
00:18:47.260 --> 00:18:50.463
And "the minimalist home," my wife and i were living on $4,000
00:18:50.463 --> 00:18:54.000
To $5,000 a month, we had everything we need, god was
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.136
Providing for us.
00:18:57.136 --> 00:18:58.705
I signed this book deal, and i get this large book advance, and
00:18:58.705 --> 00:19:02.675
Kim and i said, well, what are we going to do now?
00:19:02.675 --> 00:19:04.544
Like, i'm getting paid a lot of money to write a book about how
00:19:04.544 --> 00:19:07.580
Buying things won't make you happy.
00:19:07.580 --> 00:19:09.315
Like, what are we going to do?
00:19:09.315 --> 00:19:11.517
And so--
00:19:11.517 --> 00:19:12.885
Kirk: it's a good problem to have.
00:19:12.885 --> 00:19:14.220
A lot of people would love to be in your shoes.
00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:15.688
Joshua: there's a lot of dangers of wealth, i think, for sure.
00:19:15.688 --> 00:19:17.290
But so we took the money, and we started a nonprofit organization
00:19:17.290 --> 00:19:22.729
Called the hope effect.
00:19:22.729 --> 00:19:24.063
We are working to change orphan care around the world, getting
00:19:24.063 --> 00:19:26.966
Children out of orphanages, which are harmful, into
00:19:26.966 --> 00:19:29.335
Families, which is god's design.
00:19:29.335 --> 00:19:31.638
I called my sister in the backyard, and she knew about the
00:19:31.638 --> 00:19:35.008
Book deal being signed.
00:19:35.008 --> 00:19:36.509
She said, "what are you gonna do with the money?"
00:19:36.509 --> 00:19:38.544
And i said, "well, i think we're gonna start a nonprofit to help
00:19:38.544 --> 00:19:41.514
Get orphans into families."
00:19:41.514 --> 00:19:43.683
And then i asked her, i said, "what would you have done with a
00:19:43.683 --> 00:19:45.985
Bunch of money out of nowhere?"
00:19:45.985 --> 00:19:48.054
And she said, i probably would have saved it for my kids'
00:19:48.054 --> 00:19:50.923
College fund.
00:19:50.923 --> 00:19:52.659
And i remember thinking, oh, you know, that's actually not a
00:19:52.659 --> 00:19:56.195
Bad idea.
00:19:56.195 --> 00:19:57.764
That never crossed my mind.
00:19:57.764 --> 00:20:00.900
And then i said, yeah, "but jana, do you think if i use this
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:05.505
Money and care for the orphan, which is god's heart, that when
00:20:05.505 --> 00:20:09.942
It's time for my kids to go to college, that god's not gonna be
00:20:09.942 --> 00:20:13.479
Able to provide for me?"
00:20:13.479 --> 00:20:15.882
And i think that's just the per--provide for them.
00:20:15.882 --> 00:20:18.184
I think that's just the perfect example of, hey, when we are
00:20:18.184 --> 00:20:22.322
Faithful to god with our money, he's gonna take care of us, and
00:20:22.322 --> 00:20:27.160
There's more security in that.
00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:29.095
There's more security in faithfulness than there is in a
00:20:29.095 --> 00:20:32.198
Large bank account anyway.
00:20:32.198 --> 00:20:33.800
Kirk: how old are your kids now?
00:20:33.800 --> 00:20:35.268
Joshua: twenty three and nineteen.
00:20:35.268 --> 00:20:36.869
Kirk: twenty three and nineteen.
00:20:36.869 --> 00:20:38.237
Did they ever go to college? i'm just curious.
00:20:38.237 --> 00:20:39.872
Joshua: yeah, they both did.
00:20:39.872 --> 00:20:41.207
Yeah, god provided both of them, yeah.
00:20:41.207 --> 00:20:42.842
Kirk: it worked. joshua: different ways, yeah.
00:20:42.842 --> 00:20:44.544
Kirk: that's awesome. joshua: yeah, god's word works.
00:20:44.544 --> 00:20:46.112
Kirk: so, let's get down to the nitty-gritty.
00:20:46.112 --> 00:20:49.782
What are some things that most people could start to do to have
00:20:49.782 --> 00:20:54.954
More of a minimalist lifestyle?
00:20:54.954 --> 00:20:56.289
What should we get rid of, clothes?
00:20:56.289 --> 00:20:58.224
Joshua: sure, the average american wears only 18% of
00:20:58.224 --> 00:21:01.861
Their clothes.
00:21:01.861 --> 00:21:03.229
Kirk: okay, right, we got our favorite stuff, we just keep
00:21:03.229 --> 00:21:04.697
Going back to it, but what's the most important stuff to start
00:21:04.697 --> 00:21:07.433
Thinking about with regard to, okay, this is what is probably
00:21:07.433 --> 00:21:10.837
The big things i need to start with?
00:21:10.837 --> 00:21:12.305
Joshua: okay, our natural reaction from what i can tell is
00:21:12.305 --> 00:21:15.875
That most people's minds race to like the hardest thing that they
00:21:15.875 --> 00:21:20.279
Would ever have to get rid of.
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.048
Like, okay, i'm on board, but i don't know what i'm gonna do
00:21:22.048 --> 00:21:24.183
With my books or my photos or my sentimental items, like a box of
00:21:24.183 --> 00:21:29.021
Love letters.
00:21:29.021 --> 00:21:30.390
And i would say you don't have to start by getting rid of the
00:21:30.390 --> 00:21:33.292
Hardest thing that you would ever have to get rid of in
00:21:33.292 --> 00:21:36.362
Your home.
00:21:36.362 --> 00:21:37.697
Go start in one space that you spend time in, your living room,
00:21:37.697 --> 00:21:42.402
Your bedroom, a bathroom perhaps, and just walk around
00:21:42.402 --> 00:21:46.506
The room, take out anything and everything that you know doesn't
00:21:46.506 --> 00:21:50.143
Need to be there anymore, that doesn't serve the purpose of
00:21:50.143 --> 00:21:53.946
That space in your life, get rid of it, and then you'll notice
00:21:53.946 --> 00:21:59.018
Right away how, you know what?
00:21:59.018 --> 00:22:00.887
This is less stressful.
00:22:00.887 --> 00:22:03.823
I like--i sleep better in my bedroom.
00:22:03.823 --> 00:22:06.192
It's easier to get ready in my bathroom every single morning.
00:22:06.192 --> 00:22:09.695
If you start in those easier--
00:22:09.695 --> 00:22:11.731
Kirk: well, what if you don't know which books to get rid of.
00:22:11.731 --> 00:22:13.466
It's like, well, wait a minute, i've got a--i may want to get
00:22:13.466 --> 00:22:16.702
To this.
00:22:16.702 --> 00:22:18.070
I know i'm gonna go buy this thing again later.
00:22:18.070 --> 00:22:19.405
Do you put it in a box and then go through those things later?
00:22:19.405 --> 00:22:22.341
Are you just trying to like get your environment more
00:22:22.341 --> 00:22:24.277
Simplified, kind of like, you know?
00:22:24.277 --> 00:22:26.679
Joshua: yeah, i think--
00:22:26.679 --> 00:22:28.047
Kirk: like a japanese spa.
00:22:28.047 --> 00:22:29.382
I just want every room to look like that so i have that peace.
00:22:29.382 --> 00:22:31.284
Joshua: i've never been to a japanese spa, but it
00:22:31.284 --> 00:22:32.885
Sounds lovely.
00:22:32.885 --> 00:22:34.253
Kirk: you know what i'm talking about.
00:22:34.253 --> 00:22:35.588
Joshua: lovely, so what i think happens is it's a little bit
00:22:35.588 --> 00:22:38.558
Like building up a muscle.
00:22:38.558 --> 00:22:40.927
I call it like the decluttering muscle.
00:22:40.927 --> 00:22:42.962
Like, if we start by getting rid of some of those easier things,
00:22:42.962 --> 00:22:46.666
We'll notice the benefits, we'll notice how it's changing our
00:22:46.666 --> 00:22:50.303
Life, and when we get to books, when we get to the george
00:22:50.303 --> 00:22:54.774
Foreman grill that we use like a couple times a year or the--
00:22:54.774 --> 00:22:58.878
Kirk: i use mine every night, that is last on the list.
00:22:58.878 --> 00:23:02.548
Joshua: well, then, that's perfect.
00:23:02.548 --> 00:23:03.950
But then when we get to some of those things we're like, okay,
00:23:03.950 --> 00:23:06.486
I've seen owning less benefit my life in all these other areas.
00:23:06.486 --> 00:23:11.457
Now, how am i going to apply it here?
00:23:11.457 --> 00:23:13.326
Okay, i could put half of my books, i could put them in a
00:23:13.326 --> 00:23:15.995
Box, i could put them in the basement, i could give away my
00:23:15.995 --> 00:23:18.431
Favorites so that someone else could enjoy them.
00:23:18.431 --> 00:23:21.067
I could put half my clothes out of my closet and see how it
00:23:21.067 --> 00:23:24.237
Functions better.
00:23:24.237 --> 00:23:25.571
So i think there's a lot of ways, those are all good ways.
00:23:25.571 --> 00:23:27.340
Kirk: and do you have some of those detailed out here to help
00:23:27.340 --> 00:23:30.476
Us on the daily of i can do this with my closet, with this, with
00:23:30.476 --> 00:23:33.279
My books?
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:34.614
Joshua: yep, uncluttered faith is focused on 12 spiritual
00:23:34.614 --> 00:23:37.149
Benefits that come into our life based on the new testament when
00:23:37.149 --> 00:23:40.953
We intentionally own less stuff.
00:23:40.953 --> 00:23:43.122
And so rather than materialism is bad, it's like, hey, here's
00:23:43.122 --> 00:23:46.826
What jesus was inviting us to by owning less.
00:23:46.826 --> 00:23:49.996
So it goes through those benefits, so it's very
00:23:49.996 --> 00:23:52.465
Motivating and inspirational.
00:23:52.465 --> 00:23:54.200
Kirk: and spiritually focused, "the minimalist home," maybe
00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:56.369
That's gonna give us more of the how-tos on what do i do with
00:23:56.369 --> 00:23:58.938
My bookshelf.
00:23:58.938 --> 00:24:00.306
Joshua: in the end of the--at the end of "uncluttered faith,"
00:24:00.306 --> 00:24:02.542
There's an appendix, like, that'll walk through how to go
00:24:02.542 --> 00:24:05.311
Through it, but "the minimalist home" is more like the
00:24:05.311 --> 00:24:07.179
Room-by-room type stuff.
00:24:07.179 --> 00:24:08.548
But anyone who's a follower of jesus wants to like make
00:24:08.548 --> 00:24:11.450
The connection.
00:24:11.450 --> 00:24:12.818
Kirk: because ultimately this is where we want to go.
00:24:12.818 --> 00:24:15.021
Joshua: yep, in matthew chapter 13, jesus gives two parables
00:24:15.021 --> 00:24:18.224
Right after another.
00:24:18.224 --> 00:24:19.559
He gives the parable of the treasure, the parable of the
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:21.260
Great pearl.
00:24:21.260 --> 00:24:23.195
The man finds the treasure hidden in the field, sells
00:24:23.195 --> 00:24:26.399
Everything he had, buys the field.
00:24:26.399 --> 00:24:28.501
The merchant finds the great pearl, sells all his other goods
00:24:28.501 --> 00:24:31.804
So that he can buy the pearl, and we love this story, because
00:24:31.804 --> 00:24:36.075
It's true that the kingdom of god is so much greater than
00:24:36.075 --> 00:24:39.612
Anything that the world can offer.
00:24:39.612 --> 00:24:41.814
But i think the part that we miss so often in those stories
00:24:41.814 --> 00:24:46.152
Is that the man, the merchant, they both sold everything that
00:24:46.152 --> 00:24:50.723
They had in order to afford the treasure, in order to afford
00:24:50.723 --> 00:24:55.528
The pearl.
00:24:55.528 --> 00:24:56.929
So many of us are trying to have both.
00:24:56.929 --> 00:25:00.633
We know what god offers us is better than the world, but we're
00:25:00.633 --> 00:25:04.403
Still trying to hold on to as much of the world as we possibly
00:25:04.403 --> 00:25:07.740
Can, and our hearts can't afford both.
00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:11.644
We need to give up the world so that we can take full hold of
00:25:11.644 --> 00:25:14.947
The pearl and the treasure and all that god offers to us.
00:25:14.947 --> 00:25:18.250
Kirk: and isn't that what we want?
00:25:18.250 --> 00:25:19.652
We say i wish i had more time, i wish i had more money, i wish
00:25:19.652 --> 00:25:23.289
I had more margin mentally to be able to think up, you know,
00:25:23.289 --> 00:25:29.729
A new business or a way to help my kids.
00:25:29.729 --> 00:25:32.598
It's just stop wasting time and money on stuff that doesn't
00:25:32.598 --> 00:25:35.501
Matter, things you don't need.
00:25:35.501 --> 00:25:37.570
Joshua: absolutely. kirk: have i got this?
00:25:37.570 --> 00:25:39.071
I should be just like part of the marketing department
00:25:39.071 --> 00:25:40.473
For this book, i think.
00:25:40.473 --> 00:25:41.874
I'm definitely gonna go get it.
00:25:41.874 --> 00:25:43.209
Wait, i've got-- can i take this home?
00:25:43.209 --> 00:25:44.543
Joshua: absolutely. kirk: okay.
00:25:44.543 --> 00:25:45.911
Joshua: read it and give it to a friend, you got it.
00:25:45.911 --> 00:25:47.513
Kirk: that sounds so great, thank you.
00:25:47.513 --> 00:25:48.881
Joshua: you're welcome.
00:25:48.881 --> 00:25:50.216
Kirk: thank you for coming on today.
00:25:50.216 --> 00:25:51.550
We'll be right back after the break, so don't go away.
00:25:51.550 --> 00:25:53.552
[music]
00:25:53.552 --> 00:25:59.012
[music]
00:25:59.012 --> 00:25:59.759
[music]
00:26:00.092 --> 00:26:04.130
Kirk: my next guest, dawn madsen, is the creator of the
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:09.301
Popular youtube channel, the minimal mom, where she helps
00:26:09.301 --> 00:26:13.072
Over 1 million women each month simplify and declutter
00:26:13.072 --> 00:26:17.109
Their homes.
00:26:17.109 --> 00:26:18.444
She is the author of "decluttering by faith," a
00:26:18.444 --> 00:26:21.480
Devotional and a study that explores what the bible teaches
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:24.784
About our relationship with possessions.
00:26:24.784 --> 00:26:28.421
Dawn, thanks so much for coming on takeaways.
00:26:28.421 --> 00:26:30.122
Dawn: absolutely, thanks for having me.
00:26:30.122 --> 00:26:31.891
Kirk: this is such an important topic.
00:26:31.891 --> 00:26:34.260
I feel so much more at ease when i'm in a space, less cluttered.
00:26:34.260 --> 00:26:40.866
Dawn: right.
00:26:40.866 --> 00:26:42.201
Kirk: not messy and chaotic, because my brain often matches
00:26:42.201 --> 00:26:45.538
My environment.
00:26:45.538 --> 00:26:46.906
Dawn: absolutely, 100%.
00:26:46.906 --> 00:26:48.240
Kirk: yeah, well, i love that you called this "decluttering
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:50.443
By faith."
00:26:50.443 --> 00:26:51.811
What made you connect the dots between clutter and our
00:26:51.811 --> 00:26:54.747
Spiritual life?
00:26:54.747 --> 00:26:56.082
Dawn: yeah, well, kirk, if i could take you back ten years
00:26:56.082 --> 00:26:58.184
Ago, i had four kids ages four and under.
00:26:58.184 --> 00:27:00.653
As you know, that's physically possible.
00:27:00.653 --> 00:27:02.288
Kirk: wow. dawn: yes.
00:27:02.288 --> 00:27:04.056
Kirk: well, we adopted, so that actually gave us a little like,
00:27:04.056 --> 00:27:06.258
You know, shortcut.
00:27:06.258 --> 00:27:07.927
Dawn: so, i was a stay-at-home mom, i had left my full-time
00:27:07.927 --> 00:27:10.830
Job, and i had--i got to stay home with my kids now, and it
00:27:10.830 --> 00:27:16.102
Was exhausting, i was not finding fulfillment in it, i
00:27:16.102 --> 00:27:19.238
Didn't feel happy with it, which then made me feel guilty, and so
00:27:19.238 --> 00:27:23.509
I thought, you know what?
00:27:23.509 --> 00:27:24.877
If i could keep the house more clean, if i could stay on top of
00:27:24.877 --> 00:27:26.979
All the toys and the laundry, i think i would enjoy
00:27:26.979 --> 00:27:29.248
Being a stay-at-home mom better, because it just felt
00:27:29.248 --> 00:27:31.517
Like i was picking up the same toys every day,
00:27:31.517 --> 00:27:33.452
Doing the same laundry, and it was so monotonous,
00:27:33.452 --> 00:27:35.187
And so i was just on pinterest trying to find
00:27:35.187 --> 00:27:38.357
Cleaning routines, and i'm like if i can find the right
00:27:38.357 --> 00:27:40.826
Checklist, like, and i stumbled across minimalism and well-known
00:27:40.826 --> 00:27:45.197
Minimalist, joshua becker.
00:27:45.197 --> 00:27:47.032
And so this was ten years ago.
00:27:47.032 --> 00:27:48.400
He said did you know you don't have to have all of this stuff?
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.737
And i thought, no, i thought i have all the stuff you have when
00:27:51.737 --> 00:27:54.640
You have a family and a household and kids, the toys,
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.209
The kitchen stuff.
00:27:57.209 --> 00:27:58.544
And so over the course of the next year, i started getting rid
00:27:58.544 --> 00:28:01.213
Of stuff.
00:28:01.213 --> 00:28:02.548
I didn't know how far i'd have to go, but i thought if this is
00:28:02.548 --> 00:28:05.151
The solution i'm looking for, i'm just going to give it
00:28:05.151 --> 00:28:07.453
A shot.
00:28:07.453 --> 00:28:08.821
So i started decluttering and simplifying, and my goal was to
00:28:08.821 --> 00:28:11.991
Just get my house to feel easier so that i could stay on top of
00:28:11.991 --> 00:28:15.027
It, and i could manage it better.
00:28:15.027 --> 00:28:16.829
And so over the course of that year, i got rid of 80% of
00:28:16.829 --> 00:28:19.698
Our stuff.
00:28:19.698 --> 00:28:21.033
I didn't realize i would have to go that far to make my house
00:28:21.033 --> 00:28:24.303
Feel peaceful, manageable.
00:28:24.303 --> 00:28:26.038
Kirk: so, is that--does it get to a point where it's like just
00:28:26.038 --> 00:28:29.508
Like anything else, like i have a little of this now, i need
00:28:29.508 --> 00:28:31.510
Some more of this now, i need a lot of this?
00:28:31.510 --> 00:28:32.978
I mean, can you become ocd about getting rid of stuff.
00:28:32.978 --> 00:28:35.815
Dawn: a little bit, but i think what it was, there's a point
00:28:35.815 --> 00:28:38.818
Where it's a little bit difficult in the beginning,
00:28:38.818 --> 00:28:40.920
Because you're like i don't know if i'm going to need this in the
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:43.122
Future, and so i had two questions.
00:28:43.122 --> 00:28:44.757
I'm like am i using this now, right now, or do i know for sure
00:28:44.757 --> 00:28:48.260
I'm going to use it in the next year?
00:28:48.260 --> 00:28:49.762
And if not, i kind of looked at it like an experiment, and i'm
00:28:49.762 --> 00:28:52.865
Like if i'm not using it, i'm going to let it go, and so i
00:28:52.865 --> 00:28:57.303
Just kept going and kept going, but what i found, and that i was
00:28:57.303 --> 00:29:00.673
Not expecting, because this was a house-cleaning tactic,
00:29:00.673 --> 00:29:02.741
That's all this was.
00:29:02.741 --> 00:29:04.243
Kirk: yeah, that's all this was. dawn: i found peace.
00:29:04.243 --> 00:29:05.945
I found that i enjoyed being around my kids more, that it
00:29:05.945 --> 00:29:09.281
Wasn't so stressful when i'm like watching the clock and when
00:29:09.281 --> 00:29:11.183
My husband was going to come home from work, doing that mad
00:29:11.183 --> 00:29:13.519
Dash to clean up before he gets home and make it look like i did
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.222
Something that day, right?
00:29:16.222 --> 00:29:17.556
Even though i had been doing so much all day, but when he walks
00:29:17.556 --> 00:29:20.593
In and the house is a mess, it doesn't look like i did anything
00:29:20.593 --> 00:29:22.962
All day, and so i always had that tension of, you know, never
00:29:22.962 --> 00:29:26.899
Feeling like i was getting anywhere and always
00:29:26.899 --> 00:29:28.834
Feeling behind.
00:29:28.834 --> 00:29:30.169
Dawn, can i jump in and just ask you, why do you think it's so
00:29:30.169 --> 00:29:34.006
Easy for people to feel overwhelmed with homeownership,
00:29:34.006 --> 00:29:37.476
Especially if you have children?
00:29:37.476 --> 00:29:39.178
It can just be so consuming on our mind all day long, and you
00:29:39.178 --> 00:29:43.315
Think i want a nice house, i'm thankful for my nice house, but
00:29:43.315 --> 00:29:46.952
I wish i lived in just like a little, tiny space that i don't
00:29:46.952 --> 00:29:51.190
Have to clean, i don't have--or if i do, i have, i can do it in
00:29:51.190 --> 00:29:54.526
Five minutes.
00:29:54.526 --> 00:29:55.895
Why is our environment so connected to our peace or lack
00:29:55.895 --> 00:29:58.797
Of it?
00:29:58.797 --> 00:30:00.132
Dawn: right, absolutely, so, i mean, scientifically proven now
00:30:00.132 --> 00:30:02.601
That clutter, extra stuff releases stress hormones in
00:30:02.601 --> 00:30:05.638
Our body.
00:30:05.638 --> 00:30:06.972
So clutter literally makes us feel stressed out.
00:30:06.972 --> 00:30:09.341
But we live in a very confusing time right now, because
00:30:09.341 --> 00:30:12.344
Marketing tells us, especially as a mom, i mean, there's a
00:30:12.344 --> 00:30:15.547
Solution that you can buy for everything.
00:30:15.547 --> 00:30:17.349
So if you have a problem, you just buy something for it.
00:30:17.349 --> 00:30:20.152
Kirk: yeah, there's an essential oil that will fix it.
00:30:20.152 --> 00:30:21.921
Dawn: absolutely, or a homeschool curriculum, there's a
00:30:21.921 --> 00:30:24.790
Sound, noisemaker that will help your kids.
00:30:24.790 --> 00:30:26.525
Kirk: or a book you can buy.
00:30:26.525 --> 00:30:27.893
Dawn: a book you can buy, so everywhere we look, we are being
00:30:27.893 --> 00:30:30.629
Sold to, and no one tells us, well, how much should we have?
00:30:30.629 --> 00:30:34.033
And so through this process, i've changed my mindset.
00:30:34.033 --> 00:30:37.036
So now i look at everything in my house as inventory that i
00:30:37.036 --> 00:30:40.039
Have to manage.
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:41.373
So every single item in my home is something that i have
00:30:41.373 --> 00:30:44.176
To manage.
00:30:44.176 --> 00:30:45.511
And for women, most of us are the chief inventory managers in
00:30:45.511 --> 00:30:48.547
Our home.
00:30:48.547 --> 00:30:49.882
Guys have their own kind of inventory, but actually if we go
00:30:49.882 --> 00:30:51.850
Back to the science, women feel more stressed out by the clutter
00:30:51.850 --> 00:30:55.287
In their homes than men do, and it's usually because i'm the one
00:30:55.287 --> 00:30:59.325
Responsible for the piles on the table and the counter and the
00:30:59.325 --> 00:31:01.860
Clothes on the floor, and so it weighs on us differently
00:31:01.860 --> 00:31:05.564
As women.
00:31:05.564 --> 00:31:06.932
Kirk: so, dawn, how does somebody discern the difference
00:31:06.932 --> 00:31:10.869
Between something that i ought to keep and something that i'm
00:31:10.869 --> 00:31:14.974
Keeping out of fear, guilt, or obligation.
00:31:14.974 --> 00:31:19.478
Dawn: right, and so that's what i think if we could really drill
00:31:19.478 --> 00:31:23.916
Down on all of this, most of the stuff we're keeping in our home
00:31:23.916 --> 00:31:26.552
Is out of fear.
00:31:26.552 --> 00:31:28.487
Kirk: fear of what?
00:31:28.487 --> 00:31:29.822
Dawn: because i don't know if i'm going to need it
00:31:29.822 --> 00:31:31.290
In the future.
00:31:31.290 --> 00:31:32.624
I'm not using it today.
00:31:32.624 --> 00:31:33.959
I could go into anyone's home right now, i could tell you
00:31:33.959 --> 00:31:35.561
Exactly what you're using and not using, right?
00:31:35.561 --> 00:31:37.196
Again, statistically, we use 10% of the stuff in our house.
00:31:37.196 --> 00:31:41.166
Everything else we're keeping because we feel guilty, we spent
00:31:41.166 --> 00:31:43.369
Money on it, we think we might use it in the future.
00:31:43.369 --> 00:31:47.539
Kirk: or somebody gave that to me, and if i give it away,
00:31:47.539 --> 00:31:49.742
That's being ungrateful for them and the money they spent on the
00:31:49.742 --> 00:31:52.845
Gift they gave me.
00:31:52.845 --> 00:31:54.179
Dawn: absolutely, well, and let's bring stewardship into it.
00:31:54.179 --> 00:31:55.781
Aren't i being a good steward of my stuff if i try and find a way
00:31:55.781 --> 00:31:59.418
To store the clothes from one child to the next and the
00:31:59.418 --> 00:32:02.521
Homeschool curriculum?
00:32:02.521 --> 00:32:03.856
And you know, i'm not using these kitchen gadgets now, but
00:32:03.856 --> 00:32:05.591
When i do get time to do that type of baking.
00:32:05.591 --> 00:32:08.127
Kirk: and my kids will want them when they have their
00:32:08.127 --> 00:32:10.362
Own kitchen.
00:32:10.362 --> 00:32:11.697
Dawn: right, i mean, how great of you to store all that stuff
00:32:11.697 --> 00:32:13.432
So you can set up their first apartment.
00:32:13.432 --> 00:32:15.734
Did they use any of it?
00:32:15.734 --> 00:32:17.736
Kirk: wait a minute, i thought i had this perfect plan that my
00:32:17.736 --> 00:32:20.539
Kids were gonna thank me for.
00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:22.341
Come to find out, they're like, dad, we don't want your stuff.
00:32:22.341 --> 00:32:24.843
We don't want your stuff.
00:32:24.843 --> 00:32:26.211
Dawn: and so we live in--it's very anxiety-inducing, because
00:32:26.211 --> 00:32:28.847
Like one definition i've heard of anxiety is trying to predict
00:32:28.847 --> 00:32:31.517
The future.
00:32:31.517 --> 00:32:32.885
And so we look at everything and we're trying to predict the
00:32:32.885 --> 00:32:34.720
Future if i'm gonna need it or not.
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:37.256
Kirk: you talk in your book about how sometimes we think
00:32:37.256 --> 00:32:40.726
That possessions are going to be able to deliver certain things
00:32:40.726 --> 00:32:43.829
To us, like security, like happiness.
00:32:43.829 --> 00:32:48.033
How does scripture actually address those things and reframe
00:32:48.033 --> 00:32:51.937
Our thinking about possessions?
00:32:51.937 --> 00:32:54.073
Dawn: yeah, 1,000%, i mean, there's so many we could
00:32:54.073 --> 00:32:55.974
Draw from.
00:32:55.974 --> 00:32:57.342
I love 1 timothy where he says, "for we brought nothing into the
00:32:57.342 --> 00:32:59.912
World, and we can take nothing from it."
00:32:59.912 --> 00:33:02.881
Kirk: that's right, it's not-- we can't take it with us.
00:33:02.881 --> 00:33:04.650
Dawn: but here we are in the meantime just like spending all
00:33:04.650 --> 00:33:07.352
Of this time and energy trying to manage and organize and take
00:33:07.352 --> 00:33:10.656
Care of all of this stuff that has no eternal value whatsoever.
00:33:10.656 --> 00:33:14.593
And so it becomes this mindset shift, so we stop idolizing
00:33:14.593 --> 00:33:17.729
These things, and we start looking at every physical item
00:33:17.729 --> 00:33:20.899
As a tool.
00:33:20.899 --> 00:33:22.234
And again, that's where it went back to those questions i was
00:33:22.234 --> 00:33:23.836
Asking myself when i first decluttered, if physical
00:33:23.836 --> 00:33:26.238
Possessions are just a tool, they're meant to make my life
00:33:26.238 --> 00:33:28.974
Better and easier.
00:33:28.974 --> 00:33:30.309
They're meant to serve me, right?
00:33:30.309 --> 00:33:31.677
Tools are meant to serve me.
00:33:31.677 --> 00:33:33.011
I'm meant to serve other people and me and community, but these
00:33:33.011 --> 00:33:35.347
Physical items, just here to make my life better, and if
00:33:35.347 --> 00:33:39.118
Those items are not doing that, what if we started to lift this
00:33:39.118 --> 00:33:42.554
Burden, and what if we said maybe i'm not meant to manage
00:33:42.554 --> 00:33:45.224
All of this stuff that's not at all what i'm here for, and how
00:33:45.224 --> 00:33:48.494
Much more peace and freedom could we experience if we
00:33:48.494 --> 00:33:50.496
Started systematically moving them out?
00:33:50.496 --> 00:33:52.531
Kirk: we have to think in our mind, wait a minute, i don't
00:33:52.531 --> 00:33:54.867
Have to have all this stuff, would it be okay with god if i
00:33:54.867 --> 00:33:57.836
Got rid of this?
00:33:57.836 --> 00:33:59.171
Would it be ungrateful and unwise of me if i got rid
00:33:59.171 --> 00:34:02.608
Of this?
00:34:02.608 --> 00:34:03.942
Or would it actually be okay?
00:34:03.942 --> 00:34:05.878
These are great questions that we have to ask.
00:34:05.878 --> 00:34:07.679
And what if the point isn't to accumulate all of this stuff to
00:34:07.679 --> 00:34:11.583
Make life easier but to be able to give more things away to help
00:34:11.583 --> 00:34:15.621
Other people and to reduce stress and promote peace.
00:34:15.621 --> 00:34:19.158
Dawn: yeah, absolutely, and that's what i found as i started
00:34:19.158 --> 00:34:21.927
Decluttering was it completely changed my relationship
00:34:21.927 --> 00:34:25.330
With stuff.
00:34:25.330 --> 00:34:26.698
And so i was no longer looking at how can i accumulate more
00:34:26.698 --> 00:34:29.501
Or--and again, a lot of times i thought i was doing it out
00:34:29.501 --> 00:34:31.904
Of wisdom.
00:34:31.904 --> 00:34:33.238
I go to a garage sale, and i see, you know, shoes that are
00:34:33.238 --> 00:34:35.574
Two sizes too big for my kids right now, but what if i, you
00:34:35.574 --> 00:34:38.911
Know, get them now or homeschooling curriculums--
00:34:38.911 --> 00:34:43.048
Kirk: that's being a wise steward.
00:34:43.048 --> 00:34:44.383
Dawn: exactly, except when we look back, and we're like but
00:34:44.383 --> 00:34:46.485
Maybe not, right?
00:34:46.485 --> 00:34:47.819
Maybe i'm not meant to spend my time.
00:34:47.819 --> 00:34:49.755
And again, as i started freeing myself from this stuff, i had a
00:34:49.755 --> 00:34:52.991
Completely different relationship with stuff, and it
00:34:52.991 --> 00:34:54.760
Became so much easier to be more generous.
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:57.029
It's almost like i--my mindset shifted from taking and
00:34:57.029 --> 00:35:00.299
Consuming to being able to be like how can i share
00:35:00.299 --> 00:35:03.235
With others?
00:35:03.235 --> 00:35:04.570
And i love the idea of sharing physical stuff, but it's more
00:35:04.570 --> 00:35:07.306
About our time, our energy that we're able to free up to give,
00:35:07.306 --> 00:35:11.677
Not just the physical stuff.
00:35:11.677 --> 00:35:13.045
Kirk: so, sometimes you can give something to somebody, and
00:35:13.045 --> 00:35:17.216
They're like, well, that's not generous, you're just giving me
00:35:17.216 --> 00:35:19.051
The hand-me-downs, like i'm your goodwill, right?
00:35:19.051 --> 00:35:21.687
And so that maybe is not gonna be great for friendships.
00:35:21.687 --> 00:35:24.289
For some they may be really truly grateful and thankful.
00:35:24.289 --> 00:35:27.192
But how does getting rid of your own stuff help you be
00:35:27.192 --> 00:35:29.861
More generous?
00:35:29.861 --> 00:35:31.230
Then you don't have as much stuff to give them, though.
00:35:31.230 --> 00:35:32.698
So how does it make you more generous-minded?
00:35:32.698 --> 00:35:35.234
Dawn: i love that question.
00:35:35.234 --> 00:35:36.602
Are most people hurting for stuff right now?
00:35:36.602 --> 00:35:38.870
It has never been easier to acquire stuff on our planet.
00:35:38.870 --> 00:35:43.175
Freecycle sites, goodwill, i mean, anywhere you look right
00:35:43.175 --> 00:35:46.011
Now, you can get stuff for free or inexpensively.
00:35:46.011 --> 00:35:49.214
But what do we know about people right now?
00:35:49.214 --> 00:35:50.916
The world happiness report came out a couple of years ago.
00:35:50.916 --> 00:35:53.252
This was the first time as americans we were not in the top
00:35:53.252 --> 00:35:56.588
20 happiest countries in the world, and our young people are
00:35:56.588 --> 00:36:00.659
Actually struggling the most.
00:36:00.659 --> 00:36:02.694
So it's like ages 13 to early twenties, that segment had
00:36:02.694 --> 00:36:06.632
Dropped in happiness the most, and so we have a generation that
00:36:06.632 --> 00:36:10.302
Is drowning in stuff, drowning in stuff, but is desperate for
00:36:10.302 --> 00:36:13.939
Human connection.
00:36:13.939 --> 00:36:15.440
So it's not at all--and again, i didn't figure this out until i
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:18.310
Got through this process.
00:36:18.310 --> 00:36:19.678
It's not about the stuff at all, it's about freeing up our time,
00:36:19.678 --> 00:36:23.448
Our energy, where we're putting our time and energy to be able
00:36:23.448 --> 00:36:26.818
To connect with people.
00:36:26.818 --> 00:36:28.186
How many women never host because their kitchen's a mess?
00:36:28.186 --> 00:36:30.889
You know, i wanted to do foster care.
00:36:30.889 --> 00:36:32.858
I looked around my house, and i had, you know, all this stuff.
00:36:32.858 --> 00:36:35.127
I'm like how could i invite other kids into this home when
00:36:35.127 --> 00:36:38.096
My house is a disaster?
00:36:38.096 --> 00:36:39.831
We don't realize how much it disqualifies us from
00:36:39.831 --> 00:36:42.067
Helping others.
00:36:42.067 --> 00:36:43.402
Kirk: wow, this is really cool.
00:36:43.402 --> 00:36:44.770
I want to unpack so much more of this and practical strategies to
00:36:44.770 --> 00:36:47.639
Get us started.
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:49.007
When we come back, dawn's going to continue to address how to
00:36:49.007 --> 00:36:52.144
Declutter things that we don't need to bring more peace into
00:36:52.144 --> 00:36:55.681
Our lives and generosity to others, so don't go away.
00:36:55.681 --> 00:36:58.350
[music]
00:36:58.350 --> 00:37:04.014
[music]
00:37:04.014 --> 00:37:04.924
[music]
00:37:05.258 --> 00:37:09.295
Kirk: welcome back, we're talking with the minimal mom,
00:37:11.631 --> 00:37:14.867
Dawn madsen, on practical tips to gently guide you on getting
00:37:14.867 --> 00:37:19.038
Rid of the things in your home and finding peace
00:37:19.038 --> 00:37:22.475
In decluttering.
00:37:22.475 --> 00:37:24.444
I love that you have got such a practical book here, this
00:37:24.444 --> 00:37:27.347
Workbook, really with lots of pictures and so many practical
00:37:27.347 --> 00:37:30.516
Strategies, but conventional wisdom today wants to tell us
00:37:30.516 --> 00:37:35.521
That it's good for us to leave some inheritance for our kids.
00:37:35.521 --> 00:37:38.024
You know, i've got this time capsule.
00:37:38.024 --> 00:37:40.960
In fact, my whole house is gonna be filled with everything
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:43.496
You need.
00:37:43.496 --> 00:37:44.831
It's kind of like noah's ark, it's like everything you need
00:37:44.831 --> 00:37:46.299
For all of civilization for the future of your family and our
00:37:46.299 --> 00:37:48.501
Family tree is gonna be there for you.
00:37:48.501 --> 00:37:51.170
But do you think that when we compare that with the way jesus
00:37:51.170 --> 00:37:55.608
Lived, that we've gotten used to this level of excess that is
00:37:55.608 --> 00:38:01.447
Just foreign to jesus?
00:38:01.447 --> 00:38:03.416
Dawn: that's completely unnatural.
00:38:03.416 --> 00:38:04.984
I mean, i think if we could put language to the tension that we
00:38:04.984 --> 00:38:08.888
Feel in our homes, we feel stressed out by our homes, but
00:38:08.888 --> 00:38:12.892
We've been living with it for so long that we just don't quite
00:38:12.892 --> 00:38:16.462
Realize that that's what it is.
00:38:16.462 --> 00:38:17.830
And you know, because you've gone to a hotel room or an
00:38:17.830 --> 00:38:19.999
Airbnb or a vacation rental, and you walk in and you exhale, and
00:38:19.999 --> 00:38:24.404
Why is that?
00:38:24.404 --> 00:38:25.738
Because there's nothing telling you anything that you have
00:38:25.738 --> 00:38:27.707
To do.
00:38:27.707 --> 00:38:29.075
All of this stuff sitting around our house is saying take care of
00:38:29.075 --> 00:38:31.544
Me, manage me, organize me, don't forget about me.
00:38:31.544 --> 00:38:34.347
And kirk, how often have we tried to stock up on stuff,
00:38:34.347 --> 00:38:37.950
Again, being good stewards.
00:38:37.950 --> 00:38:39.285
I remember going to walmart, and it's after the first day of
00:38:39.285 --> 00:38:41.654
School, but school stuff is on clearance, so i'm like i'm going
00:38:41.654 --> 00:38:43.856
To get extra school supplies for the next year, and so we try to,
00:38:43.856 --> 00:38:47.627
And the kids' clothes, and how often has it gotten ruined by
00:38:47.627 --> 00:38:52.064
Then the basement floods or some kind of pest gets into it, or i
00:38:52.064 --> 00:38:55.768
Forget that i have it.
00:38:55.768 --> 00:38:57.136
And so any type of storing up, again, if we look at the wisdom
00:38:57.136 --> 00:39:00.873
From the bible, but also just our own personal experiences,
00:39:00.873 --> 00:39:04.177
Does it ever actually work out?
00:39:04.177 --> 00:39:06.012
Or have we just burdened ourselves with all of
00:39:06.012 --> 00:39:09.515
This stuff?
00:39:09.515 --> 00:39:10.883
Again, with good intentions, don't get me wrong, but that
00:39:10.883 --> 00:39:13.453
It's not achieving the purpose at all that we think it's
00:39:13.453 --> 00:39:15.822
Going to.
00:39:15.822 --> 00:39:17.156
Kirk: yeah, and sometimes we just say, well, i just need to,
00:39:17.156 --> 00:39:18.758
You know, inventory this stuff more and set reminders so that
00:39:18.758 --> 00:39:20.560
Next year i will use it and not forget that i own it already.
00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:22.428
Dawn: organize it better, absolutely.
00:39:22.428 --> 00:39:24.096
Kirk: but in the end, i know what you mean.
00:39:24.096 --> 00:39:26.566
There is a cost to having to manage all of that, and it robs
00:39:26.566 --> 00:39:30.903
Us of peace, just the freedom to think about other things and
00:39:30.903 --> 00:39:35.107
People and all that stuff.
00:39:35.107 --> 00:39:36.709
This is awesome.
00:39:36.709 --> 00:39:38.077
I'm gonna go home, and i'm gonna be like, honey, we need to
00:39:38.077 --> 00:39:40.847
Cut out.
00:39:40.847 --> 00:39:42.181
Dawn: rent a dumpster.
00:39:42.181 --> 00:39:43.516
Kirk: let's start with 10%.
00:39:43.516 --> 00:39:44.884
And my wife's actually so great at this.
00:39:44.884 --> 00:39:46.219
She's been getting rid of tchotchkes and stuff and
00:39:46.219 --> 00:39:48.488
Trinkets all the time.
00:39:48.488 --> 00:39:50.756
All right, i've got some excuses.
00:39:50.756 --> 00:39:52.124
Dawn: absolutely, bring them on, yes.
00:39:52.124 --> 00:39:53.459
Kirk: all right, you're ready.
00:39:53.459 --> 00:39:54.827
You're like hit me.
00:39:54.827 --> 00:39:56.162
Dawn: i bet i've never heard them before.
00:39:56.162 --> 00:39:57.497
Kirk: i'm sure, all right, what about the people that say but i
00:39:57.497 --> 00:39:59.232
Paid good money for this, and so i should keep it?
00:39:59.232 --> 00:40:02.335
In fact, i got a deal on this, but it was still expensive.
00:40:02.335 --> 00:40:05.771
Dawn: right, and so again, i think that's where we have to
00:40:05.771 --> 00:40:08.107
Look at, well, what am i trading it for, then?
00:40:08.107 --> 00:40:10.576
Okay, any of--we can keep all the stuff in our house if we
00:40:10.576 --> 00:40:13.112
Want to, but like you said, you use the word cost.
00:40:13.112 --> 00:40:15.548
What is the cost?
00:40:15.548 --> 00:40:16.883
You said, you know, all of your kids have moved out now, how
00:40:16.883 --> 00:40:19.719
Much of the stuff, the extra kitchen stuff and the extra
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:22.355
Linens and all the stuff that you--
00:40:22.355 --> 00:40:23.723
Kirk: and the boxes of baby clothes.
00:40:23.723 --> 00:40:25.291
Dawn: yeah, they're still there, right?
00:40:25.291 --> 00:40:27.560
And so there's a cost to keeping all of this stuff, and let's
00:40:27.560 --> 00:40:31.731
Talk about it.
00:40:31.731 --> 00:40:33.099
So, we have sentimental stuff, and we have
00:40:33.099 --> 00:40:34.433
Non-sentimental stuff.
00:40:34.433 --> 00:40:35.801
So the non-sentimental we keep because we spent money on it, so
00:40:35.801 --> 00:40:38.771
There's like this sunk cost to it, and we think if we keep it,
00:40:38.771 --> 00:40:42.074
Then we're somehow righting that wrong.
00:40:42.074 --> 00:40:45.144
Is that what we're being asked to do?
00:40:45.144 --> 00:40:46.646
Is that our purpose here on earth is to somehow find
00:40:46.646 --> 00:40:50.283
Retribution by keeping all of this stuff in our house?
00:40:50.283 --> 00:40:53.386
And again, it's--i think most of us are so far from
00:40:53.386 --> 00:40:55.821
Experiencing a peaceful, simplified home that you don't
00:40:55.821 --> 00:41:00.459
Understand that the burden that it has created, especially
00:41:00.459 --> 00:41:02.895
For women.
00:41:02.895 --> 00:41:04.263
I know men feel it, too, but i think women, they really take
00:41:04.263 --> 00:41:07.366
That on, and they feel so conflicted because of the money
00:41:07.366 --> 00:41:10.036
That was spent.
00:41:10.036 --> 00:41:11.370
Kirk: yeah, i feel so guilty that i spent all this money.
00:41:11.370 --> 00:41:12.972
Dawn: i'm gonna right that wrong, and what if today we
00:41:12.972 --> 00:41:14.473
Could just say what if we could just release you from all of
00:41:14.473 --> 00:41:17.543
That guilt, all of this stuff that you're keeping out of fear
00:41:17.543 --> 00:41:21.013
And say i don't think that's what we're meant to do?
00:41:21.013 --> 00:41:23.382
I don't think that's what god has intended for our life to be
00:41:23.382 --> 00:41:26.385
Stuff managers, and if we could just give everyone permission.
00:41:26.385 --> 00:41:28.921
That's probably one of the number-one things i hear is, oh,
00:41:28.921 --> 00:41:31.257
Dawn, thank you for giving me permission to let this stuff go.
00:41:31.257 --> 00:41:33.859
Kirk: isn't that crazy?
00:41:33.859 --> 00:41:35.194
Because we don't think of it that way necessarily.
00:41:35.194 --> 00:41:36.662
We think, well, i need to do this, i should do this, it's the
00:41:36.662 --> 00:41:39.599
Right thing to do, it's being a good steward, but to say,
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.802
Like, it's okay, you can get rid of it.
00:41:42.802 --> 00:41:45.171
Like, that would almost bring some people--i bet women
00:41:45.171 --> 00:41:47.940
Have cried.
00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:49.308
I bet you have had women break down in tears saying it's okay
00:41:49.308 --> 00:41:52.311
For me to get rid of my stuff?
00:41:52.311 --> 00:41:53.879
Dawn: well, and they apologize, and they say i feel so bad that
00:41:53.879 --> 00:41:57.917
I didn't learn this sooner and my kids grew up in a
00:41:57.917 --> 00:42:00.152
Messy house.
00:42:00.152 --> 00:42:01.487
Kirk: and i was so stressed.
00:42:01.487 --> 00:42:02.855
Dawn: and i was spending all this time, right, you know,
00:42:02.855 --> 00:42:04.323
Trying to manage all this stuff.
00:42:04.323 --> 00:42:05.992
Meanwhile, i wasn't actually doing the things i had wanted to
00:42:05.992 --> 00:42:08.794
Do with them.
00:42:08.794 --> 00:42:10.863
Kirk: what about those who feel such sentimental attachment to
00:42:10.863 --> 00:42:16.802
Things, like this is from my dad or from my mother, do i have to
00:42:16.802 --> 00:42:22.675
Get rid of everything?
00:42:22.675 --> 00:42:24.076
Dawn: right, and i think that's so important.
00:42:24.076 --> 00:42:25.611
I mean, we do see memory stones in the bible.
00:42:25.611 --> 00:42:29.782
It's very important to honor our past and where we came from, but
00:42:29.782 --> 00:42:34.120
We usually have to put some kind of parameter or boundary around
00:42:34.120 --> 00:42:37.556
It so we know how much to keep.
00:42:37.556 --> 00:42:40.760
And so having a memory box, like one box per person in your
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:44.930
Household, is really helpful to put the most special of
00:42:44.930 --> 00:42:47.933
Special things.
00:42:47.933 --> 00:42:49.268
Kirk: can it be a big box?
00:42:49.268 --> 00:42:50.636
Dawn: it can be as big as you want, yeah, so you might start
00:42:50.636 --> 00:42:52.505
Bigger and then go a little bit smaller, right?
00:42:52.505 --> 00:42:54.140
Kirk: can it be a sea container?
00:42:54.140 --> 00:42:55.508
What if i bury it underground, and it's a sea container?
00:42:55.508 --> 00:42:58.611
Dawn: if that's what you want to do.
00:42:58.611 --> 00:43:00.513
I think it's important, though, to distinguish between firsthand
00:43:00.513 --> 00:43:03.149
Sentimental and secondhand.
00:43:03.149 --> 00:43:05.251
So, a lot of people have inherited stuff, right?
00:43:05.251 --> 00:43:08.454
I remember my grandparents passed away, and they're--my
00:43:08.454 --> 00:43:11.857
Parents were going through all the stuff in her house, and my
00:43:11.857 --> 00:43:14.060
Mom's like, "do you want your grandma's china set?"
00:43:14.060 --> 00:43:16.162
And i adored my grandma, we grew up close to her, i named my
00:43:16.162 --> 00:43:18.998
Oldest daughter after her, i adored her, and my mom's like,
00:43:18.998 --> 00:43:21.901
"do you want her china set?"
00:43:21.901 --> 00:43:23.235
And i felt like i should, like i really cared about my grandma,
00:43:23.235 --> 00:43:26.972
And i'm like--
00:43:26.972 --> 00:43:28.340
Kirk: and then if you didn't, it would be dishonoring
00:43:28.340 --> 00:43:30.076
Your grandma.
00:43:30.076 --> 00:43:31.410
Dawn: absolutely, dishonoring her.
00:43:31.410 --> 00:43:32.778
And i'm like why do i have no connection?
00:43:32.778 --> 00:43:34.113
Well, i don't ever remember the china set being used.
00:43:34.113 --> 00:43:37.583
You could have lined up five china sets and said which one's
00:43:37.583 --> 00:43:39.819
Your grandma's?
00:43:39.819 --> 00:43:41.153
I would not have been able to pick it out.
00:43:41.153 --> 00:43:42.521
But she had this red tablecloth that was always on the table at
00:43:42.521 --> 00:43:45.491
Christmas and holidays, and i'm like that, that i remember, that
00:43:45.491 --> 00:43:49.595
Brings up happy memories.
00:43:49.595 --> 00:43:51.397
And so, again, a lot of this stuff we're keeping out of
00:43:51.397 --> 00:43:53.532
Guilt, oh, i should keep it.
00:43:53.532 --> 00:43:55.534
It doesn't bring up happy memories, or again, out of fear.
00:43:55.534 --> 00:43:58.237
Well, what if i forget my grandma, then, if i don't
00:43:58.237 --> 00:44:00.339
Have this?
00:44:00.339 --> 00:44:01.707
So, so much of this stuff, if you really trace it back, is out
00:44:01.707 --> 00:44:04.343
Of fear, and that's why we're keeping it.
00:44:04.343 --> 00:44:06.412
But again, that is not making our house feel happy and joyful
00:44:06.412 --> 00:44:09.515
And peaceful, it's making our homes feel really heavy.
00:44:09.515 --> 00:44:12.752
Kirk: do you think that clutter and hanging on to stuff not only
00:44:12.752 --> 00:44:19.024
Robs us of personal peace, it's always got us distracted and
00:44:19.024 --> 00:44:23.696
Stressed out, but can it also impact our relationship
00:44:23.696 --> 00:44:27.133
With god?
00:44:27.133 --> 00:44:28.467
Dawn: absolutely, i mean, do we hear the quiet voice in our
00:44:28.467 --> 00:44:32.538
Homes when our homes are telling us all this stuff?
00:44:32.538 --> 00:44:36.008
Okay, stress hormones are being released, we're looking around,
00:44:36.008 --> 00:44:39.211
We're like i have to do that, i have to do that, i have to
00:44:39.211 --> 00:44:41.680
Do that.
00:44:41.680 --> 00:44:43.015
I think it becomes--our homes become very noisy without us
00:44:43.015 --> 00:44:45.584
Hearing it.
00:44:45.584 --> 00:44:46.952
And how easy is it then to say, well, i'm not going to do my
00:44:46.952 --> 00:44:48.954
Quiet time this morning, you know, i got to get the kitchen
00:44:48.954 --> 00:44:50.990
Cleaned up, i got to get breakfast going.
00:44:50.990 --> 00:44:53.359
And so, again, when i started decluttering and becoming a
00:44:53.359 --> 00:44:55.628
Minimalist, it was just a cleaning tactic, i did not
00:44:55.628 --> 00:44:58.364
Expect it to be a spiritual journey.
00:44:58.364 --> 00:45:00.499
And that as i moved the stuff out of my home, my house felt
00:45:00.499 --> 00:45:05.104
More peaceful, i felt more at peace, and all of a sudden it
00:45:05.104 --> 00:45:09.909
Also increased my confidence in a way that i felt like i could
00:45:09.909 --> 00:45:14.346
Pursue the things that i truly believe that god was calling
00:45:14.346 --> 00:45:16.782
Me to.
00:45:16.782 --> 00:45:18.117
I mean, foster care, for whatever reason, foster care had
00:45:18.117 --> 00:45:19.952
Been on my heart since i was a teenager, but again, i looked
00:45:19.952 --> 00:45:22.888
Around my house, and i was like how could i possibly do this?
00:45:22.888 --> 00:45:26.725
And so it was through that process of decluttering,
00:45:26.725 --> 00:45:29.862
Simplifying, finding peace in my home, me having more peace, more
00:45:29.862 --> 00:45:33.999
Time to spend on spiritual practices, it was such a
00:45:33.999 --> 00:45:37.403
Domino effect.
00:45:37.403 --> 00:45:38.737
And again, i sometimes even struggle to put words to the
00:45:38.737 --> 00:45:40.840
Impact that it has made on my life, because it has made such a
00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:44.043
Huge difference, and when i look back and someone says, oh, but i
00:45:44.043 --> 00:45:46.278
Paid money on it--for it, and i'm like but you want to
00:45:46.278 --> 00:45:49.315
Exchange this, this peace and this confidence and this ability
00:45:49.315 --> 00:45:52.651
To pursue?
00:45:52.651 --> 00:45:54.019
I mean, to truly go on the great adventure of life, right?
00:45:54.019 --> 00:45:56.055
To do the things that we are called to do that truly light us
00:45:56.055 --> 00:45:59.091
Up and energize us and make us feel alive, you want to trade
00:45:59.091 --> 00:46:02.761
That for like something you bought on amazon and, you know,
00:46:02.761 --> 00:46:05.798
Paid $25 for?
00:46:05.798 --> 00:46:07.700
But it's hard to quantify, right?
00:46:07.700 --> 00:46:09.568
Kirk: yeah, yeah, i would love if you could share a story with
00:46:09.568 --> 00:46:12.471
Us of somebody who was maybe a hoarder.
00:46:12.471 --> 00:46:15.474
Have you ever had somebody come in who was just like--i have--
00:46:15.474 --> 00:46:18.777
One of my wife's friends, she had a house that was so packed
00:46:18.777 --> 00:46:23.415
With stuff, like it was like a sickness and collected stuff.
00:46:23.415 --> 00:46:27.686
For whatever reason, she couldn't detach from the stuff.
00:46:27.686 --> 00:46:32.258
Or you've seen some people with their car will be like that or
00:46:32.258 --> 00:46:34.426
Their closet will be like that, and you know that their mind is
00:46:34.426 --> 00:46:37.529
In the same condition.
00:46:37.529 --> 00:46:39.365
Tell us a story about somebody who watched your channel or read
00:46:39.365 --> 00:46:42.234
Your book and how it changed them.
00:46:42.234 --> 00:46:45.004
Dawn: yeah, absolutely.
00:46:45.004 --> 00:46:46.372
I mean, i have so much compassion now for those with
00:46:46.372 --> 00:46:48.674
Hoarding disorder and who really struggle with this connection to
00:46:48.674 --> 00:46:51.477
Stuff, because what's hard for us to understand is from the
00:46:51.477 --> 00:46:55.381
Outside, we look, and we're like, oh, that's so
00:46:55.381 --> 00:46:57.049
Overwhelming, and like, you feel the stress, right?
00:46:57.049 --> 00:46:59.685
And you're like i can't even imagine living in that, but when
00:46:59.685 --> 00:47:02.521
You visit with them, they feel safety from that.
00:47:02.521 --> 00:47:06.225
They feel safety being surrounded by that thing.
00:47:06.225 --> 00:47:09.628
And so when you come in and very well-meaning, and i want to
00:47:09.628 --> 00:47:12.798
Share this to help those understand who might not
00:47:12.798 --> 00:47:15.067
Understand it, right?
00:47:15.067 --> 00:47:16.402
And we come in, and we're like i want to help them.
00:47:16.402 --> 00:47:18.003
Like, i really--i want you to experience this peace that comes
00:47:18.003 --> 00:47:20.139
From living in a simplified environment, they are like you
00:47:20.139 --> 00:47:23.642
Are stripping all of my safety away from me.
00:47:23.642 --> 00:47:25.945
And so it's a very slow process, because we have to find other
00:47:25.945 --> 00:47:29.548
Ways to bring in safety, then, for them.
00:47:29.548 --> 00:47:32.251
So, jennifer was a stay-at-home mom, homeschooling mom, and she
00:47:32.251 --> 00:47:35.354
Always wanted to create her own homeschooling curriculum, and
00:47:35.354 --> 00:47:38.824
She had five kids, and she was like, dawn, there was no way--
00:47:38.824 --> 00:47:41.660
She was like, every day, by the time i got, you know, breakfast
00:47:41.660 --> 00:47:44.563
Cleaned up, and we did our schoolwork and everything.
00:47:44.563 --> 00:47:46.999
And so what you might not realize is that when you
00:47:46.999 --> 00:47:48.934
Simplify your, your home, it's estimated that a decluttered
00:47:48.934 --> 00:47:52.304
Simplified home takes 40% less time to manage, 40% less time
00:47:52.304 --> 00:47:57.376
Picking up, cleaning, caring for all of your possessions, and so
00:47:57.376 --> 00:48:00.746
She took about a year and a half to get her home decluttered, and
00:48:00.746 --> 00:48:03.716
Then she sent me an email, it was about a year later.
00:48:03.716 --> 00:48:06.118
She's like, "i finished the curriculum.
00:48:06.118 --> 00:48:07.820
I also wrote a parent guide to go along with it."
00:48:07.820 --> 00:48:10.622
But what else is cool about this is then she started creating
00:48:10.622 --> 00:48:13.525
Community around it, she had other women that were helping
00:48:13.525 --> 00:48:16.395
Her to promote it and to test it, and she was like, "i could
00:48:16.395 --> 00:48:19.631
Have never imagined this."
00:48:19.631 --> 00:48:21.567
She's like, "i had disqualified myself from believing that in
00:48:21.567 --> 00:48:24.803
This season of life that i was in that i would be able to
00:48:24.803 --> 00:48:27.740
Achieve this dream of mine."
00:48:27.740 --> 00:48:29.842
And so, again, it's hard to explain sometimes the confidence
00:48:29.842 --> 00:48:34.513
That we gain in ourselves through this process of
00:48:34.513 --> 00:48:36.682
Decluttering, and for a lot of us when we look around and our
00:48:36.682 --> 00:48:39.685
Home is messy and cluttered, that it really wears on us, and
00:48:39.685 --> 00:48:44.123
We start to think, well, i'm not good enough.
00:48:44.123 --> 00:48:46.191
You know, i can't even manage my house, how could i write a book?
00:48:46.191 --> 00:48:49.094
How could i start a ministry?
00:48:49.094 --> 00:48:50.462
How could i help others?
00:48:50.462 --> 00:48:52.164
And so the confidence that we gain through the
00:48:52.164 --> 00:48:53.766
Decluttering process.
00:48:53.766 --> 00:48:55.634
Kirk: well, if you want to know if she's telling the truth, just
00:48:55.634 --> 00:48:57.936
Watch her youtube channel.
00:48:57.936 --> 00:48:59.271
You can see pictures of her house to see if she actually is
00:48:59.271 --> 00:49:01.073
Decluttered and what her secret indulgent shelves are.
00:49:01.073 --> 00:49:05.411
Maybe it's lots of spices or maybe it's a shoe rack with just
00:49:05.411 --> 00:49:09.148
A billion shoes, i don't know.
00:49:09.148 --> 00:49:11.483
But my accomplishment in decluttering was once emptying
00:49:11.483 --> 00:49:15.654
Out the junk drawer, because it just, you know?
00:49:15.654 --> 00:49:17.723
And yeah, i did that.
00:49:17.723 --> 00:49:19.058
I felt great the whole rest of the day just because of that one
00:49:19.058 --> 00:49:22.661
Junk drawer.
00:49:22.661 --> 00:49:24.029
But thank you so much for writing the book, thank you for
00:49:24.029 --> 00:49:25.631
Coming on "takeaways," and i hope everybody experiences the
00:49:25.631 --> 00:49:28.901
Freedom that you have by decluttering.
00:49:28.901 --> 00:49:32.204
Dawn: thank you, kirk.
00:49:32.204 --> 00:49:33.539
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:49:33.539 --> 00:49:35.908
[music]
00:49:35.908 --> 00:49:42.010
[music]
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[music]
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Kirk: what if you could free up time and energy you didn't know
00:49:48.956 --> 00:49:51.826
You had?
00:49:51.826 --> 00:49:53.160
Our guest today, joshua becker, said the average american spends
00:49:53.160 --> 00:49:56.163
Two hours a day managing their stuff.
00:49:56.163 --> 00:49:59.333
Dawn madsen said a decluttered home takes 40% less time
00:49:59.333 --> 00:50:04.004
To manage.
00:50:04.004 --> 00:50:05.372
Both of them discovered the same thing.
00:50:05.372 --> 00:50:07.408
When you let go of stuff, you get your life back, which brings
00:50:07.408 --> 00:50:11.178
Us to our first takeaway: less stuff, more people.
00:50:11.178 --> 00:50:15.883
Joshua said he spent a whole morning cleaning the garage
00:50:15.883 --> 00:50:18.886
While his son begged him to play ball.
00:50:18.886 --> 00:50:21.856
When he looked up, his son was swinging the bat alone.
00:50:21.856 --> 00:50:26.327
Dawn said the same thing.
00:50:26.327 --> 00:50:27.795
She was so busy managing her house that she wasn't doing what
00:50:27.795 --> 00:50:31.732
She wanted to do with her kids.
00:50:31.732 --> 00:50:34.602
Our stuff is never neutral.
00:50:34.602 --> 00:50:37.171
It's either serving us or stealing from us, and our kids
00:50:37.171 --> 00:50:42.343
Are losing.
00:50:42.343 --> 00:50:43.878
So what if we could lift that burden?
00:50:43.878 --> 00:50:46.313
Dawn said that when she did, she found peace and freedom she
00:50:46.313 --> 00:50:49.850
Didn't expect.
00:50:49.850 --> 00:50:51.986
Greed and worry look the same.
00:50:51.986 --> 00:50:54.889
Joshua made a connection that i hadn't thought of.
00:50:54.889 --> 00:50:57.558
Greed and worry produce the exact same result.
00:50:57.558 --> 00:51:01.562
When i'm greedy, i keep more than i need.
00:51:01.562 --> 00:51:04.131
When i worry, i keep more than i need.
00:51:04.131 --> 00:51:07.168
Dawn said that we only use about 10% of our stuff, so why do we
00:51:07.168 --> 00:51:12.773
Keep the rest?
00:51:12.773 --> 00:51:14.141
She says fear, fear that we might need it someday, fear of
00:51:14.141 --> 00:51:17.912
Wasting money.
00:51:17.912 --> 00:51:19.713
One definition of anxiety, she says, is trying to predict
00:51:19.713 --> 00:51:24.118
The future.
00:51:24.118 --> 00:51:25.719
That's what we're doing every time we hold onto something just
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:28.789
In case.
00:51:28.789 --> 00:51:30.257
But here's the truth, there's far more security in trusting
00:51:30.257 --> 00:51:34.328
God than in stockpiling stuff.
00:51:34.328 --> 00:51:38.365
Possessions are tools, not treasures.
00:51:38.365 --> 00:51:42.670
Dawn said physical possessions are just tools, they're meant to
00:51:42.670 --> 00:51:47.041
Serve us.
00:51:47.041 --> 00:51:48.375
We're meant to serve people.
00:51:48.375 --> 00:51:50.511
So if something isn't making your life easier or better, why
00:51:50.511 --> 00:51:54.481
Are you managing it?
00:51:54.481 --> 00:51:56.283
First timothy says that we've brought nothing into this world,
00:51:56.283 --> 00:51:59.086
And we can take nothing from it.
00:51:59.086 --> 00:52:02.122
So why are we spending all our time and energy taking care of
00:52:02.122 --> 00:52:05.726
Stuff with no eternal value?
00:52:05.726 --> 00:52:09.096
Joshua brought up the parable of the treasure and the pearl.
00:52:09.096 --> 00:52:12.933
He said they gave up everything to get the treasure, to get the
00:52:12.933 --> 00:52:17.137
Pearl, and that's our invitation, to let go of the
00:52:17.137 --> 00:52:20.908
Stuff and to take hold of what matters, because we can't
00:52:20.908 --> 00:52:25.613
Afford both.
00:52:25.613 --> 00:52:27.982
That's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:27.982 --> 00:52:30.050
Thanks for watching.
00:52:30.050 --> 00:52:31.385
And if you've enjoyed this show, don't forget to set your dvr so
00:52:31.385 --> 00:52:34.888
You never miss an episode.
00:52:34.888 --> 00:52:36.323
And of course, you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:52:36.323 --> 00:52:39.460
Searching for takeaways on tbn+ or visit the kirk cameron on tbn
00:52:39.460 --> 00:52:45.532
Youtube channel.
00:52:45.532 --> 00:52:46.900
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:52:46.900 --> 00:52:50.771
[music]
00:52:50.771 --> 00:52:54.808
[music]
00:52:56.810 --> 00:52:56.810

Joshua Becker & Dawn Madsen: Keeping it Simple to Enjoy Life Better | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

June 8, 2026 | 53:10

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