Justin Brierley & Casey Luskin: Making a Case of Why God Exists | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

August 4, 2025 | 54:47

Kirk Cameron is joined by broadcaster Justin Brierley and scientist Casey Luskin to discuss how recent scientific discoveries bring further proof of the existence of intelligent design.

#Christianity #Faith #Science #Belief #Apologetics #Theology #Author #Religion #Atheist #Culture

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Justin Brierley & Casey Luskin: Making a Case of Why God Exists | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | August 4, 2025

Kirk cameron: when it comes to your faith, do you know why you
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Believe what you believe?
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If someone asked you why do you believe in god, would you know
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How to answer?
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We're gonna talk with speaker and author justin brierley and
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Scientist casey luskin sharing their insights on how we can
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Share our faith with even greater confidence based on the
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Scientific evidence supporting intelligent design.
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Let's talk about it right now on "takeaways."
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Justin brierley: the vast majority of people do say that
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There is a point to life, suggests that there's a purpose
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Giver and that we're not here purely by accident.
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Casey luskin: so we're talking about some super intelligent
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Cause has fine tuned the laws of nature, crafted the laws of
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The universe.
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So again, we could be here having this conversation so that
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Life can exist.
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Kirk: my first guest, justin brierley is a uk based author,
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Speaker, and broadcaster known for hosting dialogues between
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Christians and non-christians.
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He's passionate about creating conversations around faith,
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Science, theology, and culture.
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He's my kind of guy.
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His most recent book, "why i'm still a christian," is all about
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Why believing in god makes the most sense and showcases an
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Intellectually compelling case for christianity.
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Justin, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
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Justin: it's an absolute pleasure to be with you, kirk.
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Thank you.
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Kirk: i'm so fascinated by the life that you have led over two
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Decades interviewing christians, non-christians, atheists,
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Skeptics, unbelievers, muslims, hindus, buddhists, and those who
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Would challenge the christian worldview.
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In your book, justin, you've titled it, "why i'm still
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A christian: after two decades of conversations with skeptics
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And atheists."
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So justin, right out of the gates, why do you still believe
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And remain a christian?
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Justin: well, it's a great question because in a way,
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I really did put myself in the firing line for the best part of
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Two decades, hosting a show called "unbelievable" here in
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The uk where i purposefully every week brought on christians
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And non-christians, very often they were atheists, skeptics,
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People of other faiths, and it was really so that we could look
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At the claims of christianity and ask, can it stand on its own
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Two feet intellectually?
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And while there were plenty of, you know, interesting puzzling
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Questions and objections along the way, and i had to learn an
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Awful lot, i also learned that there is this incredible
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Intellectual core to christianity that actually
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Really makes sense.
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It makes sense of us, our experience, it makes sense of
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The universe, it makes sense of history, it makes sense
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Philosophically, theologically, ethically.
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And so i found actually what we have in the christian tradition
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Is not something you just have to kind of will yourself into
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Believing against all the odds, but we have something that
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Actually makes sense, not only of us, but the world we live in.
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And so that's why even after two decades of hosting these
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Conversations with some of the best known atheists in the
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World, i felt absolutely comfortable saying, i'm a
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Christian and i've got every good reason to be a christian.
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Kirk: justin, you also say in your book that people are much
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More open to spiritual conversations than many of us
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Think they are.
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Why do you think we are so hesitant to share our faith and
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Let others question our faith.
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Justin: i think it's because sadly we live in an age where
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Online especially, it can feel quite daunting to talk about
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Things because things get so polarized and so oppositional
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Very quickly and it can often leave us feeling like we need to
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Have all of the answers at our disposal and so that often means
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Many christians fail to ever begin a conversation 'cause
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They're worried that they won't be able to provide the answers
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To the questions that come.
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But actually, in my experience, you know, people are actually
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More human than they often appear online and they're
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Actually full of questions, they're full of queries, they're
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People who are on a search very often for truth themselves.
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And so it's not that we have to have all of the answers, but we
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Have to be at least open to having the conversation
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With people.
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And if the best answer we can give to a difficult question is,
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I don't know, the next thing you can say is, but let me go away,
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Look into that and come back and let's continue the conversation.
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The tragedy is if we never begin the conversation because of
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Our fears.
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So i would say, what you need to do is exactly what 1 peter 3:15
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Tells us to do, which is to always be ready to give an
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Answer to anyone who asks you about the reason for the hope
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That you have, but do this with gentleness and respect.
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And one of the things that often comes out of that is the
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Question, well, are people asking you, you know, are you
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Living the kind of life where people would actually ask you
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About the reason for the hope that you have?
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And if they're not asking you, it may be because you're not
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Putting yourself in situations where there's an opportunity for
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People to do that, maybe you live in too much of a kind of
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Christian bubble to begin with, to actually engage with people
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Outside of the faith.
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So i think it's a challenge to us to say actually there is an
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Opportunity, people do have questions, and are we going to
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Do what the bible asks us to do and be ready to give an answer?
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Kirk: i agree with you.
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I've found that people are very interested in spiritual things
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And yet they're hesitant to talk about it just like we are
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Because many people just don't want to get into a fight.
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That's why we say don't talk about politics and religion and
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You'll be fine.
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But really what else matters but politics and religion.
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It shapes everything else in our world from family to philosophy
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To science and the economy and everything else.
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Justin, in your book, you outline three aspects of
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Humanity and reality that you claim are best explained by the
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Revelation of god in the bible.
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Can you unpack that for us?
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Justin: yeah, absolutely.
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I think one of the first things i learned in hosting these
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Conversations between atheists and christians was that actually
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We're all approaching life through a worldview and for most
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Of the atheist guests i had on my show, that was materialism.
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It was the idea that all that ultimately exists is the laws of
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Nature and the physical stuff of the universe.
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And that's a very interesting perspective, but it's also has
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All kinds of consequences.
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It means that essentially the universe came from nowhere and
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It's heading nowhere, there's no ultimate purpose to life,
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There's no such thing in the end actually as beauty or justice or
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Love or even truth actually.
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It's very hard to kind of fathom how you make sense of those
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Ideas on this purely material basis.
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And from that point of view, there are these three areas
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Which i think sit better, they're just more coherent when
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You believe there's a god, when you think of there being a god
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Behind the universe.
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And so the three areas that i outlined specifically are human
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Existence, human value, and human purpose.
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Human existence simply because the fact that we're here kind of
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Needs an explanation and the materialist view that
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Essentially we came about by chance and time just doesn't
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Really make sense when you look at the extraordinary
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Improbability of what it took to produce us in the universe.
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There's lots of aspects to that.
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There's the way in which life itself began in this
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Extraordinary way, the way in which the universe itself
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Appears to have come into existence with this
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Extraordinarily precisely styled set of numbers that would allow
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Life to develop in the cosmos.
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There's all kinds of pieces of evidence that point towards the
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Christian view rather than the atheist materialist view
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Of reality.
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So human existence is one area, but human value, why do we
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Believe that humans have inherent worth, dignity?
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Why do we create whole bills of human rights to kind of
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Safeguard those?
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Again, i've never met a satisfactory, purely atheist
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Explanation for that.
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Whereas it makes perfect sense if what's written on page one of
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The bible is true, that all humans are made in god's image.
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It makes perfect sense that you would have this view of
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Human value.
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And finding human purpose is just that sense of why are
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We here?
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Is there a point to life in the end?
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And again, the fact that the vast majority of people do say
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That there is a point to life suggests that there's a purpose
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Giver and that we're not here purely by accident and that
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There's a meaning behind the universe.
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So for me, these are three specific areas that i try to
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Unpack in more detail in the book as to why it would make
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Sense to choose the god option, if you like, rather than the
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Atheist option.
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Kirk: that's beautiful, justin.
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I love that.
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It just produces a song in my heart when i hear you talk about
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These things because i've wrestled for years and years as
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A new believer, as a young believer, and i'm flooded with
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These emotions of fear and worry and anxiety that perhaps there
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Is an argument out there in the materialist worldview or the
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Muslim worldview that will unravel, that will just pull the
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Thread of truth out of the fabric of christianity and it
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Will all just dismantle in front of me.
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And yet the more i've questioned why i believe what i believe and
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The more i have looked at the alternative worldviews to the
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Christian worldview, the more i am convinced that my trust
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Placed in jesus christ and in the bible has been very well
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Placed because everything else seems to eliminate itself after
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A while like you just demonstrated.
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Where is the grounding for purpose or even our very
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Existence or value or morality or even the laws of logic
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And mathematics?
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How can we even assert that these things are true and even
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An argument against god as an evil being for allowing
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Suffering to happen is without merit unless you can define what
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Goodness actually is, without which you can't even determine
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That anything is evil.
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So your whole argument implodes without a christian worldview.
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We're gonna talk more with justin after the break.
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And later in the program, scientist casey luskin will join
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Us to share his thoughts on the debate over intelligent design
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And evolution.
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Stay with us.
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Casey: even evidence that is accepted by mainstream science
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Shows a need for an intelligent cause, a creator behind
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Life in the universe.
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Life in the universe.
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Kirk: we're back with speaker and broadcaster justin brierley.
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Justin, we were talking all about christian worldview and
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How it really best explains the things that are most valuable to
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Us, the things that we see around us.
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And i remember hearing an interview with richard dawkins,
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Maybe the world's most famous current proponent of
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Neo-darwinian evolution.
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And he was asked, "what kind of culture would you like to
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Live in?"
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Of all the cultures in the world, you know, the asian
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Culture, the buddhist culture, the muslim culture.
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And he said, "oh, hands down a christian culture."
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Even talked about wearing the label of a cultural christian,
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Even though he does not believe in the claims of christianity
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And the bible.
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You had an experience with richard as well and you talk
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About it in your book.
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Share that with us.
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Justin: yes, the very first time i had a conversation with
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Richard dawkins, who, as you say, is probably the most famous
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Atheist on the planet in many ways, was back in 2008 and he'd
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Just had a fantastic debate at oxford university with john
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Lennox, who's a well-known professor of science.
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Kirk: love john lennox.
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Justin: science and mathematics, wonderful guy,
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A christian thinker.
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And i got to kind of go to the after debate party at a local
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Oxford college.
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But interestingly, one of the most significant parts that then
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Kind of went viral actually is an audio clip.
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Was where i asked him about this question of morality and how as
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An atheist he grounds his beliefs in right and wrong.
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And the particular issue i raised was this, and i'll just
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Give you verbatim how the conversation went between
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Us, kirk.
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I said to richard, "but if we'd evolved into a society where
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Rape was considered fine, would that mean that rape is fine?"
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And he said, "well, i don't want to answer that question.
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It's enough for me to say that we live in a society where it's
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Not considered fine.
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We live in a society where selfishness, failure to pay your
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Debts, failure to reciprocate favors is regarded as stance.
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That is the society in which we live.
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I'm very glad that's a value judgment.
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Glad that i live in such a society."
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And i responded, "but richard, when you make a value judgment,
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Don't you immediately step outside of this evolutionary
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Process and say the reason this is good is that it's good and
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You don't have any way to stand on that statement."
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Kirk: that's right.
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Justin: and he responded, "well, my value judgment itself
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Could come from my evolutionary past."
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And i said, "but therefore, it's just as random in a sense as any
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Product of evolution."
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He said, "you could say that, but in any case, nothing about
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It makes it more probable that there's anything supernatural."
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And i finished by saying, "okay, but ultimately, your belief that
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Rape is wrong is as arbitrary as the fact we've developed five
00:12:56.056 --> 00:12:59.893
Fingers rather than six."
00:12:59.893 --> 00:13:01.461
And he said, "you could say that, yes."
00:13:01.461 --> 00:13:04.631
And that was, i think, a really interesting admission on the
00:13:04.631 --> 00:13:07.434
Part of richard dawkins.
00:13:07.434 --> 00:13:08.768
You could say that and i think you should say that if you're
00:13:08.768 --> 00:13:11.738
A thoroughgoing atheist materialist as he is.
00:13:11.738 --> 00:13:14.741
And yet most of us recoil with horror that the idea that our
00:13:14.741 --> 00:13:17.777
Belief that rape is wrong is just one of those things.
00:13:17.777 --> 00:13:20.647
Now, we kind of know that there are certain ways we should and
00:13:20.647 --> 00:13:24.150
Shouldn't treat each other.
00:13:24.150 --> 00:13:25.518
And that's why i think dawkins kind of tacitly had to admit
00:13:25.518 --> 00:13:29.356
That atheism cannot support that idea.
00:13:29.356 --> 00:13:31.791
Kirk: that's right.
00:13:31.791 --> 00:13:33.126
Justin: that actually if there is real right and wrong, if
00:13:33.126 --> 00:13:35.962
There are such things as human rights, then you have to have
00:13:35.962 --> 00:13:39.566
A foundation that goes beyond nature, goes beyond evolution,
00:13:39.566 --> 00:13:42.135
Goes beyond just the stuff of the universe.
00:13:42.135 --> 00:13:44.671
You have to have a moral law giver.
00:13:44.671 --> 00:13:46.806
And that was obviously the insight that led, you know, one
00:13:46.806 --> 00:13:49.609
Of his forebears at oxford, c.s. lewis to to faith, actually.
00:13:49.609 --> 00:13:53.280
He realized, i can't claim to believe in justice and truth and
00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:57.150
Beauty unless there's a foundation for this in god and
00:13:57.150 --> 00:14:00.553
That's what led him away from his atheism.
00:14:00.553 --> 00:14:02.555
Kirk: that's right. that's right.
00:14:02.555 --> 00:14:05.292
I found myself on that exact same journey asking myself these
00:14:05.292 --> 00:14:07.694
Very same questions as the young christian who then began to ask,
00:14:07.694 --> 00:14:11.064
Why do i really believe the claims of this bible?
00:14:11.064 --> 00:14:13.967
And it's i can't go anywhere else.
00:14:13.967 --> 00:14:16.136
Nothing else makes sense.
00:14:16.136 --> 00:14:17.504
Nothing else lines up with reality.
00:14:17.504 --> 00:14:19.372
Justin, what advice would you give to people who have loved
00:14:19.372 --> 00:14:22.609
Ones, maybe their children or their parents or siblings who
00:14:22.609 --> 00:14:27.013
Are stuck in an echo chamber?
00:14:27.013 --> 00:14:28.782
They are only listening to people who believe like they do
00:14:28.782 --> 00:14:33.153
Outside of the knowledge of god and it's hard to get into
00:14:33.153 --> 00:14:37.590
Their world.
00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:38.925
Justin: i think it's a great question because it's so hard
00:14:38.925 --> 00:14:41.561
For all of us these days to escape our echo chambers.
00:14:41.561 --> 00:14:44.197
It's kind of what social media and online influencers do.
00:14:44.197 --> 00:14:47.834
It's kind of they feed you the same things you wanna hear.
00:14:47.834 --> 00:14:50.704
And what i was trying to do in hosting these conversations was
00:14:50.704 --> 00:14:53.573
To get people outside of those echo chambers and hear the best
00:14:53.573 --> 00:14:56.710
Case both for and against their perspectives.
00:14:56.710 --> 00:14:59.713
And so i would say the best thing you can do for someone
00:14:59.713 --> 00:15:01.982
Who's in that position is to engage in real life offline
00:15:01.982 --> 00:15:06.553
Conversations because i think that's where the rubber really
00:15:06.553 --> 00:15:08.855
Hits the road, that you actually stop kind of this kind of
00:15:08.855 --> 00:15:12.392
Algorithmic sense in which we only ever hear from people who
00:15:12.392 --> 00:15:15.695
Have the same views as us.
00:15:15.695 --> 00:15:17.630
It's really important i think to sit down and have genuine face
00:15:17.630 --> 00:15:20.300
To face conversations.
00:15:20.300 --> 00:15:21.634
So i think we should model that, but we need to do it with grace
00:15:21.634 --> 00:15:24.971
And generosity because very often again, one of the worst
00:15:24.971 --> 00:15:28.575
Things about the digital social media age we live in is the way
00:15:28.575 --> 00:15:32.379
In which the polarization happens, but it kind of brings
00:15:32.379 --> 00:15:34.781
Out the worst in people and you have to kind of demolish your
00:15:34.781 --> 00:15:37.784
Opponent and their ideology.
00:15:37.784 --> 00:15:39.619
So i would say just make sure that as we engage people in
00:15:39.619 --> 00:15:42.622
Those hopefully gracious conversations, we season it with
00:15:42.622 --> 00:15:45.792
That christ likeness, which as you said, was willing to go
00:15:45.792 --> 00:15:48.695
Outside of the bubble and encounter people who the
00:15:48.695 --> 00:15:51.631
Religious authorities viewed with suspicion and distrust.
00:15:51.631 --> 00:15:54.968
We should do the same.
00:15:54.968 --> 00:15:56.336
We should be open to the fact that, yeah, of course people
00:15:56.336 --> 00:15:58.338
Aren't gonna share all the same views as us, but jesus calls us
00:15:58.338 --> 00:16:01.741
To go and have those kinds of conversations that can be
00:16:01.741 --> 00:16:04.711
Challenging, that can be difficult for us, but actually
00:16:04.711 --> 00:16:07.580
Where if we go in his grace, in his love, and also knowing that
00:16:07.580 --> 00:16:11.284
Actually we've got a really wonderful story to actually
00:16:11.284 --> 00:16:14.521
Share with people, then amazing things can happen.
00:16:14.521 --> 00:16:16.890
And i've always been surprised actually, just how incredibly
00:16:16.890 --> 00:16:21.394
God can move when we actually step out and talk to someone
00:16:21.394 --> 00:16:24.831
That we wouldn't necessarily think might have anything to say
00:16:24.831 --> 00:16:28.034
To us.
00:16:28.034 --> 00:16:30.236
And the foundation of that is not just good arguments and
00:16:30.236 --> 00:16:33.740
Intellectual reasons for god.
00:16:33.740 --> 00:16:35.175
Those are great.
00:16:35.175 --> 00:16:36.543
Make sure that you're kind of, you've got something in the tank
00:16:36.543 --> 00:16:38.545
For that.
00:16:38.545 --> 00:16:39.913
But go--but always undergird it with prayer because for me, it's
00:16:39.913 --> 00:16:43.950
When you join that prayer and the life of the mind that some
00:16:43.950 --> 00:16:49.556
Incredible things can happen in my experience and you really do
00:16:49.556 --> 00:16:52.358
See god moving both at an intellectual and a spiritual
00:16:52.358 --> 00:16:55.395
Level in people's lives.
00:16:55.395 --> 00:16:57.163
Kirk: because of these conversations that you've had
00:16:57.163 --> 00:16:59.232
With people who are formidable opponents to many christians who
00:16:59.232 --> 00:17:03.937
Try to debate them, you've come out with your faith in christ
00:17:03.937 --> 00:17:08.875
And in the bible, strengthened.
00:17:08.875 --> 00:17:11.111
But one of the worst nightmares for a parent is the thought of
00:17:11.111 --> 00:17:15.515
Their child going off to college and being under the influence of
00:17:15.515 --> 00:17:20.053
Some atheistic professor or some radical leftist ideology that
00:17:20.053 --> 00:17:26.292
Will send them careening off a cliff abandoning their faith.
00:17:26.292 --> 00:17:31.664
So how is it that you come out stronger and 80% of kids who go
00:17:31.664 --> 00:17:38.238
Through college end up losing their faith in today's culture?
00:17:38.238 --> 00:17:42.175
How can we engage in these conversations outside of our
00:17:42.175 --> 00:17:45.245
Echo chamber and have confidence that we will have a net positive
00:17:45.245 --> 00:17:51.584
Result, not a net negative?
00:17:51.584 --> 00:17:54.020
Justin: yeah, it's a huge and important question because i
00:17:54.020 --> 00:17:58.658
Think the reason why, if you like, i and many people, i guess
00:17:58.658 --> 00:18:03.630
More here on this side of the pond, if you like, in the uk,
00:18:03.630 --> 00:18:06.232
Have been able to withstand, if you like, all of those forces
00:18:06.232 --> 00:18:09.269
That you talk about, is i think because it's harder to actually
00:18:09.269 --> 00:18:12.505
Live in a kind of christian bubble in the uk.
00:18:12.505 --> 00:18:15.909
And i think that's always the danger sometimes, especially in
00:18:15.909 --> 00:18:18.511
Parts of america, especially there is more of a kind of a
00:18:18.511 --> 00:18:21.848
Christian culture and you can be raised in a church where perhaps
00:18:21.848 --> 00:18:25.251
Most of your influences are christian, then it's very easy
00:18:25.251 --> 00:18:28.888
If you do then go off to college or enter a suddenly a secular
00:18:28.888 --> 00:18:31.991
Environment to suddenly, it's kind of like
00:18:31.991 --> 00:18:34.160
Cognitive dissonance.
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:35.495
You can't put together what you're hearing now with what you
00:18:35.495 --> 00:18:38.464
Had learned as you grew up.
00:18:38.464 --> 00:18:39.832
So i think the antidote to that is actually because we cannot
00:18:39.832 --> 00:18:43.336
Shield our children and wrap them in a bubble, especially in
00:18:43.336 --> 00:18:46.439
The age of the internet, you have to begin those
00:18:46.439 --> 00:18:49.008
Conversations from early on.
00:18:49.008 --> 00:18:50.743
You have to do it around the dinner table.
00:18:50.743 --> 00:18:52.779
And you have to start to talk about the fact there are people
00:18:52.779 --> 00:18:55.481
Who believe different things and maybe we believe in this family
00:18:55.481 --> 00:18:57.817
Or at our church.
00:18:57.817 --> 00:18:59.152
So let's have a good conversation about that.
00:18:59.152 --> 00:19:01.254
Let's put that out on the table and let's work out what we would
00:19:01.254 --> 00:19:04.257
Say, how we engage, what are some of the responses.
00:19:04.257 --> 00:19:07.360
Because if you can do that from an early age, it means that
00:19:07.360 --> 00:19:09.929
You're not setting up your children for a fall because
00:19:09.929 --> 00:19:12.565
They've been prepared, they've had the opportunity to think
00:19:12.565 --> 00:19:16.035
About it and to engage it and have thought through them by the
00:19:16.035 --> 00:19:19.606
Time they actually encounter them in the big wide world.
00:19:19.606 --> 00:19:23.009
Kirk: and finally, justin, you share in your book that one of
00:19:23.009 --> 00:19:25.478
The most important lessons you've learned through these two
00:19:25.478 --> 00:19:27.981
Decades of speaking with doubters, unbelievers, skeptics,
00:19:27.981 --> 00:19:32.986
Is the importance of living by faith and not by sight.
00:19:32.986 --> 00:19:36.623
If you have come to the conclusion that christianity is
00:19:36.623 --> 00:19:39.592
The best explanation of reality in front of you, what then is
00:19:39.592 --> 00:19:45.298
The value of living by faith when you can see that it's the
00:19:45.298 --> 00:19:50.536
Best explanation?
00:19:50.536 --> 00:19:51.938
Why do you still require faith?
00:19:51.938 --> 00:19:53.973
Justin: i think the there is a difference between simply kind
00:19:53.973 --> 00:19:56.576
Of seeing that something makes sense and faith because faith is
00:19:56.576 --> 00:20:00.280
Not just believing in something, it's actually putting your trust
00:20:00.280 --> 00:20:03.716
In it and it's doing something about it.
00:20:03.716 --> 00:20:05.652
So i think of faith as a very active kind of thing.
00:20:05.652 --> 00:20:08.888
So it's kind of the difference between knowing that this
00:20:08.888 --> 00:20:12.425
Parachute is gonna hold you up when you jump out of a plane and
00:20:12.425 --> 00:20:16.596
The difference between that and actually jumping out of the
00:20:16.596 --> 00:20:18.698
Plane because then you're actually testing the hypothesis,
00:20:18.698 --> 00:20:21.234
You're seeing what happens when you put some weight on this
00:20:21.234 --> 00:20:23.870
Theoretical belief that you kind of have been convinced
00:20:23.870 --> 00:20:26.039
Of intellectually.
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:27.540
Because that's what faith is.
00:20:27.540 --> 00:20:28.975
You know, the book of james says, "even the demons believe
00:20:28.975 --> 00:20:33.112
And tremble."
00:20:33.112 --> 00:20:34.447
Belief isn't really what god's after in the end.
00:20:34.447 --> 00:20:36.316
It's faith, it's trusting in him.
00:20:36.316 --> 00:20:38.217
It's actually doing something with what you've found to
00:20:38.217 --> 00:20:41.954
Be true.
00:20:41.954 --> 00:20:43.289
And that will usually involve committing your life to it in
00:20:43.289 --> 00:20:45.458
All kinds of radical and quite costly ways.
00:20:45.458 --> 00:20:48.027
So for me, that is the most exciting part of the
00:20:48.027 --> 00:20:50.563
Christian journey.
00:20:50.563 --> 00:20:51.931
It's not having arguments and debates about atheism and faith,
00:20:51.931 --> 00:20:53.933
They're fun, but actually it's when people get that this is
00:20:53.933 --> 00:20:57.036
True and then stake something on it, live their life as if it's
00:20:57.036 --> 00:21:00.540
True, and see what happens.
00:21:00.540 --> 00:21:02.141
Kirk: that's right.
00:21:02.141 --> 00:21:03.710
And the great revelation to the atheists, to the christian, to
00:21:03.710 --> 00:21:09.349
The muslim who is honest, is that we've all got skin in the
00:21:09.349 --> 00:21:13.820
Game and all of us have placed our faith in something and we
00:21:13.820 --> 00:21:17.857
Will all test the validity of our hypothesis when we die and
00:21:17.857 --> 00:21:23.429
We find out what happens next.
00:21:23.429 --> 00:21:25.498
Either we'll stand before god and there will be the judgment,
00:21:25.498 --> 00:21:29.669
Or nothing will happen at all or something worse.
00:21:29.669 --> 00:21:34.674
And at the end of the day, i would never wanna put on the
00:21:34.674 --> 00:21:38.578
Parachute of atheism because when i pull the lever, there is
00:21:38.578 --> 00:21:45.418
No parachute.
00:21:45.418 --> 00:21:46.786
Christianity has one and it's strong and i believe that it'll
00:21:46.786 --> 00:21:49.989
Hold me.
00:21:49.989 --> 00:21:51.324
And i believe it so much, i've put my faith in it.
00:21:51.324 --> 00:21:53.793
Justin, thank you so much for our conversation today here
00:21:53.793 --> 00:21:57.230
On "takeaways."
00:21:57.230 --> 00:21:58.564
Justin: thank you so much, kirk.
00:21:58.564 --> 00:21:59.932
It's been an absolute pleasure being with you.
00:21:59.932 --> 00:22:01.534
God bless you, and thank you so much for the conversation.
00:22:01.534 --> 00:22:04.804
Kirk: i hope you all get justin's book and up next, casey
00:22:04.804 --> 00:22:07.707
Luskin is gonna join us to share recent discoveries that strongly
00:22:07.707 --> 00:22:11.444
Support intelligent design theories.
00:22:11.444 --> 00:22:13.413
Stay with us.
00:22:13.413 --> 00:22:14.847
We wanna welcome katie miller, director of brand development
00:22:17.784 --> 00:22:20.953
For sight and sound.
00:22:20.953 --> 00:22:22.655
This is a storytelling company passionate about bringing true
00:22:22.655 --> 00:22:26.125
Stories of redemption to life on the stage and on screen that
00:22:26.125 --> 00:22:30.129
Reveal the power of the gospel.
00:22:30.129 --> 00:22:32.932
Since its beginning, as a traveling multimedia show in
00:22:32.932 --> 00:22:35.701
1976, sight and sound has inspired over 30 million people
00:22:35.701 --> 00:22:40.773
With stories from the pages of scripture and history.
00:22:40.773 --> 00:22:44.744
In 2020, it launched an online streaming platform welcoming a
00:22:44.744 --> 00:22:49.048
New global audience from over 175 countries around the world.
00:22:49.048 --> 00:22:53.820
Katie, i'm so excited to be talking with you.
00:22:53.820 --> 00:22:55.955
Katie miller: i'm so grateful to be here.
00:22:55.955 --> 00:22:57.290
Thank you for taking time.
00:22:57.290 --> 00:22:58.658
Kirk: sight and sound is amazing.
00:22:58.658 --> 00:23:01.260
It is stunning.
00:23:01.260 --> 00:23:02.595
It is brilliant and beautiful.
00:23:02.595 --> 00:23:03.963
I've been there several times in lancaster, pennsylvania.
00:23:03.963 --> 00:23:06.766
Can you describe it for people who have never been there and
00:23:06.766 --> 00:23:09.535
Don't know what it is?
00:23:09.535 --> 00:23:10.937
Katie: i sure can.
00:23:10.937 --> 00:23:12.271
I always try.
00:23:12.271 --> 00:23:13.639
It always feels like a little bit of a hard thing, but,
00:23:13.639 --> 00:23:15.274
You know, we are coming up on celebrating 50 years and for
00:23:15.274 --> 00:23:18.177
The most part we're known for the place where the bible comes
00:23:18.177 --> 00:23:20.746
To life on stage.
00:23:20.746 --> 00:23:22.081
So we stage bible stories in a big spectacular way with a 300
00:23:22.081 --> 00:23:25.485
Foot wraparound stage, live animals that go up and down the
00:23:25.485 --> 00:23:28.654
Aisles, a cast of 50, and lots of special effects.
00:23:28.654 --> 00:23:31.991
However, our heart is really to immerse families and audiences
00:23:31.991 --> 00:23:36.929
In the heart of the story and the message that comes to life
00:23:36.929 --> 00:23:40.933
Right before their eyes from the bible.
00:23:40.933 --> 00:23:42.568
So that's what our hope is.
00:23:42.568 --> 00:23:44.136
Kirk: well, i also know that this is the second year that
00:23:44.136 --> 00:23:46.772
Sight and sound is broadcasting live into movie theaters around
00:23:46.772 --> 00:23:50.610
The country.
00:23:50.610 --> 00:23:51.944
So if you can't go to sight and sound, sight and sound is now
00:23:51.944 --> 00:23:54.313
Coming to your neighborhood.
00:23:54.313 --> 00:23:56.315
Talk to us about what inspired you to make this move.
00:23:56.315 --> 00:23:58.918
Katie: yeah, so noah is on stage in lancaster this year and it's
00:23:58.918 --> 00:24:02.355
30th anniversary.
00:24:02.355 --> 00:24:03.990
And up until we did noah back in 1995, we had been doing review
00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:07.627
Style shows, multimedia shows, and my grandfather is very
00:24:07.627 --> 00:24:11.397
Innovative and had this crazy idea to do a larger than life
00:24:11.397 --> 00:24:15.768
Bible story and he wanted to do noah and he loves to tell
00:24:15.768 --> 00:24:18.738
The story.
00:24:18.738 --> 00:24:20.072
People all of his team said, "i don't think it
00:24:20.072 --> 00:24:21.440
Can be done, glenn."
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:22.775
And he said, "i think it can. let's try."
00:24:22.775 --> 00:24:25.478
Kirk: we can do this.
00:24:25.478 --> 00:24:26.812
Katie: we can do this.
00:24:26.812 --> 00:24:28.180
And i remember like i remember being an 11-year-old standing
00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:29.782
In the theater just going, i don't know what we just did.
00:24:29.782 --> 00:24:31.384
I was standing inside this ark with hundreds of animals
00:24:31.384 --> 00:24:33.452
Around me.
00:24:33.452 --> 00:24:34.787
And it really did.
00:24:34.787 --> 00:24:36.656
It was a moment for us in sight and sound history to say this is
00:24:36.656 --> 00:24:39.859
What we're called to do.
00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:41.193
Like bringing the bible to life on stage and we've never looked
00:24:41.193 --> 00:24:43.462
Back so we've been doing bible stories ever since.
00:24:43.462 --> 00:24:46.032
And this year is it's 30 years since it first premiered.
00:24:46.032 --> 00:24:49.368
We refreshed the whole show.
00:24:49.368 --> 00:24:51.203
We are sold out.
00:24:51.203 --> 00:24:52.572
It has been--we are just overwhelmed.
00:24:52.572 --> 00:24:53.906
We're so grateful and we said, "okay, we've got to do something
00:24:53.906 --> 00:24:57.310
To celebrate this show."
00:24:57.310 --> 00:24:58.678
So we are bringing it into movie theaters with a true live
00:24:58.678 --> 00:25:02.248
Broadcast and then a bunch of encore performances as well to
00:25:02.248 --> 00:25:05.251
Celebrate its 30th year.
00:25:05.251 --> 00:25:07.453
Kirk: what do you hope that families will experience when
00:25:07.453 --> 00:25:10.790
They leave a sight and sound live performance?
00:25:10.790 --> 00:25:14.493
Katie: yeah, there's nothing like watching the wonder in the
00:25:14.493 --> 00:25:17.396
Kids' eyes when the animals are running up and down the aisles.
00:25:17.396 --> 00:25:19.632
We have skunks, live skunks in the show that walk up.
00:25:19.632 --> 00:25:21.867
Kirk: they have been deskunked?
00:25:21.867 --> 00:25:23.235
Katie: they have been deskunked, but they walk up into the ark.
00:25:23.235 --> 00:25:24.870
It's so endearing.
00:25:24.870 --> 00:25:26.205
But for me, the thing that always means the most is when we
00:25:26.205 --> 00:25:29.241
Get letters or emails or comments afterwards of parents
00:25:29.241 --> 00:25:31.611
Who said, "i left today and we talked the whole way home about
00:25:31.611 --> 00:25:36.649
How does it mean to live like noah in the world we're in
00:25:36.649 --> 00:25:39.986
Today" or what, you know, how did noah process when that ark
00:25:39.986 --> 00:25:44.323
Door shut.
00:25:44.323 --> 00:25:45.691
We've talked so much about his family being celebrated and
00:25:45.691 --> 00:25:47.793
Saved and that's true, but they lost so much.
00:25:47.793 --> 00:25:50.663
It was their neighbors.
00:25:50.663 --> 00:25:51.998
It was their extended family who chose not to come on board
00:25:51.998 --> 00:25:54.400
With them.
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:55.768
And so there's, while this show is beautiful and fun and funny,
00:25:55.768 --> 00:25:59.639
There's comedy through it, there is like a thread of grief as
00:25:59.639 --> 00:26:02.875
Well that you watch noah's family experience.
00:26:02.875 --> 00:26:04.844
And so to hear parents say, "we went home and read the story
00:26:04.844 --> 00:26:08.114
Together with our kids or we decided to do a devotional
00:26:08.114 --> 00:26:11.417
Together to talk through what we watched on stage.
00:26:11.417 --> 00:26:14.186
We wanna read it for ourselves now."
00:26:14.186 --> 00:26:15.588
Like, that's what means something to us.
00:26:15.588 --> 00:26:17.223
That's when we're like, thank you, lord, that's the work right
00:26:17.223 --> 00:26:20.159
There is families having tools to be able to grow their
00:26:20.159 --> 00:26:23.295
Family's faith.
00:26:23.295 --> 00:26:24.664
Kirk: well, katie, i have so much respect for sight and sound
00:26:24.664 --> 00:26:27.700
And for you and for all the actors and everyone involved in
00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:30.369
These productions because of all the things you could be bringing
00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:34.240
To life, you're bringing to life the most redemptive stories in
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.910
The world and nothing can transform the heart of mankind,
00:26:37.910 --> 00:26:42.581
But the gospel.
00:26:42.581 --> 00:26:43.949
And that's what you are committed to.
00:26:43.949 --> 00:26:46.318
And stories like noah help all of us teach our children about
00:26:46.318 --> 00:26:49.989
How the bible really does explain reality.
00:26:49.989 --> 00:26:52.425
And that flood helps us to understand so much about the
00:26:52.425 --> 00:26:56.429
Different races of people.
00:26:56.429 --> 00:26:58.064
It helps us understand about ecology.
00:26:58.064 --> 00:27:00.232
It helps us understand about the world that we live in, what may
00:27:00.232 --> 00:27:02.935
Have started the ice age, which we learn about in science
00:27:02.935 --> 00:27:06.005
Classes and these are the stories that start the
00:27:06.005 --> 00:27:09.175
Conversations we hope and pray for as parents and grandparents
00:27:09.175 --> 00:27:12.044
With our kids.
00:27:12.044 --> 00:27:13.412
Katie: yeah, and you know one of the things that blows my mind
00:27:13.412 --> 00:27:16.015
Is, and this is such a thing that our story team just brought
00:27:16.015 --> 00:27:20.119
Out of the story in a beautiful way.
00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:22.688
You know, we forget sometimes that noah, god talked to noah
00:27:22.688 --> 00:27:26.025
And told him to build an ark, but that did not--it did not
00:27:26.025 --> 00:27:28.260
Start raining.
00:27:28.260 --> 00:27:29.595
They did not have that ark finished for nearly 100 years.
00:27:29.595 --> 00:27:31.897
It was what they assume between 75 to 100 years of building
00:27:31.897 --> 00:27:35.134
An ark.
00:27:35.134 --> 00:27:36.469
And the faithfulness that was required for noah to live with
00:27:36.469 --> 00:27:40.239
All the opposition that was around him, it says he was the
00:27:40.239 --> 00:27:42.808
Last righteous man on earth.
00:27:42.808 --> 00:27:45.010
And so for 100 years of living faithfully in the midst of the
00:27:45.010 --> 00:27:49.515
Faithless world around him is so inspiring and i think just as
00:27:49.515 --> 00:27:54.186
Relevant today as it ever has been and it's something that you
00:27:54.186 --> 00:27:57.490
Know even i have a 12-year-old, he's my youngest and after he
00:27:57.490 --> 00:28:00.292
Watched the show this year, he's not stopped talking about it.
00:28:00.292 --> 00:28:02.661
It's been months now and he's still going, "mom, like, how do
00:28:02.661 --> 00:28:04.997
You think it was when noah, you know, when his brother chose not
00:28:04.997 --> 00:28:07.967
To get on the ark with him or when his neighbor, you know, and
00:28:07.967 --> 00:28:11.237
How can we be that light to the world for our neighbors, you
00:28:11.237 --> 00:28:15.641
Know, and our family members."
00:28:15.641 --> 00:28:16.976
Kirk: and it all comes to life in such a beautiful way together
00:28:16.976 --> 00:28:18.944
With your family and all sorts of other families.
00:28:18.944 --> 00:28:21.347
It is glorious.
00:28:21.347 --> 00:28:23.349
If you would like to learn more about sight and sound, go to
00:28:23.349 --> 00:28:25.985
Their website site-sound.com.
00:28:25.985 --> 00:28:29.922
We'll be right back with more on "takeaways."
00:28:29.922 --> 00:28:34.992
We'll be right back with more on "takeaways."
00:28:34.992 --> 00:28:38.327
Kirk: my next guest is casey luskin, the associate director
00:28:42.565 --> 00:28:46.102
Of the center for science and culture.
00:28:46.102 --> 00:28:48.404
Casey assists and defends scientists, educators, and
00:28:48.404 --> 00:28:52.375
Students who seek to freely study, research, and teach about
00:28:52.375 --> 00:28:56.846
The scientific debate over darwinian evolution and
00:28:56.846 --> 00:28:59.816
Intelligent design.
00:28:59.816 --> 00:29:01.317
He's also one of the co-editors of the "comprehensive guide to
00:29:01.317 --> 00:29:05.188
Science and faith: exploring the ultimate questions about life
00:29:05.188 --> 00:29:09.592
And the cosmos."
00:29:09.592 --> 00:29:11.394
Casey, i'm so excited to have you here on "takeaways."
00:29:11.394 --> 00:29:13.830
Casey: thanks for having me, kirk.
00:29:13.830 --> 00:29:15.398
Kirk: well, this has been a topic that i've been fascinated
00:29:15.398 --> 00:29:19.235
By for years and years and years and i'm so glad that now
00:29:19.235 --> 00:29:24.307
Scientists can't ignore the intelligent design argument
00:29:24.307 --> 00:29:27.877
Anymore and it's really getting traction.
00:29:27.877 --> 00:29:30.213
Can you talk to us about what is the buzz about intelligent
00:29:30.213 --> 00:29:35.418
Design within the traditional scientific community?
00:29:35.418 --> 00:29:38.921
Casey: yeah, so i work as the research director
00:29:38.921 --> 00:29:41.390
At discovery institute.
00:29:41.390 --> 00:29:42.725
And so what we're really excited about is we are seeing
00:29:42.725 --> 00:29:45.361
Scientists all around the world doing research that's
00:29:45.361 --> 00:29:48.264
Discovering evidence for intelligent design in nature.
00:29:48.264 --> 00:29:50.800
We're talking about looking at the amount of information that
00:29:50.800 --> 00:29:53.302
We see in dna or how the universe is fine tuned for life
00:29:53.302 --> 00:29:57.039
Or how there are certain features of cells that defy
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:01.644
A darwinian gradual explanation, molecular machines that are
00:30:01.644 --> 00:30:04.513
Incredibly complex.
00:30:04.513 --> 00:30:06.115
And so what scientists are recognizing is that there's all
00:30:06.115 --> 00:30:08.751
Kinds of features in nature that can't arise through this sort of
00:30:08.751 --> 00:30:11.621
Unguided darwinian mechanism that's been around for so
00:30:11.621 --> 00:30:15.024
Many years.
00:30:15.024 --> 00:30:16.392
They're realizing that that mechanism doesn't work and they
00:30:16.392 --> 00:30:18.427
Need to find better ways to explain what we see in nature.
00:30:18.427 --> 00:30:21.264
Kirk: wow.
00:30:21.264 --> 00:30:22.632
So what i'm hearing you say is that the very theory of
00:30:22.632 --> 00:30:26.102
Darwinian evolution that we have been told is essentially fact.
00:30:26.102 --> 00:30:31.173
It's science.
00:30:31.173 --> 00:30:32.575
You know, when people say, "well, i don't have faith.
00:30:32.575 --> 00:30:34.510
I'm not a faith guy.
00:30:34.510 --> 00:30:36.078
I'm a science guy," and they equate that with
00:30:36.078 --> 00:30:38.080
Darwinian evolution.
00:30:38.080 --> 00:30:39.448
You're saying the evidence actually is not backing up that
00:30:39.448 --> 00:30:41.884
Theory because there's not a right mechanism or there's not
00:30:41.884 --> 00:30:46.122
A right whatever, and intelligent design is maybe
00:30:46.122 --> 00:30:50.493
A better explanation.
00:30:50.493 --> 00:30:51.994
Of course, i think it is too, but is intelligent design now
00:30:51.994 --> 00:30:56.599
A scientific theory?
00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:58.734
Casey: yes, absolutely.
00:30:58.734 --> 00:31:00.069
Intelligent design uses the scientific method to make
00:31:00.069 --> 00:31:02.872
Its claims.
00:31:02.872 --> 00:31:04.240
And so the way intelligent design works is basically
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:06.142
Like this.
00:31:06.142 --> 00:31:07.510
We start by observing the kind of information and complexity
00:31:07.510 --> 00:31:10.613
That intelligent agents produce when they act.
00:31:10.613 --> 00:31:12.848
And what we find is that when intelligent agents act, they
00:31:12.848 --> 00:31:15.351
Produce things like language-based code
00:31:15.351 --> 00:31:18.054
Or machine-like structures.
00:31:18.054 --> 00:31:19.422
So we can then make a hypothesis that says, okay, when we look at
00:31:19.422 --> 00:31:22.358
Biology, we're gonna find language-based code and
00:31:22.358 --> 00:31:25.161
Machine-like structures in living systems.
00:31:25.161 --> 00:31:27.697
And what they're finding is that let's talk about proteins, okay?
00:31:27.697 --> 00:31:30.366
What is a protein, kirk?
00:31:30.366 --> 00:31:31.734
A protein is basically a very long chain of amino acids that
00:31:31.734 --> 00:31:35.604
Is folded up into a very specific shape to form a very
00:31:35.604 --> 00:31:38.641
Important function in your cells, right?
00:31:38.641 --> 00:31:40.609
So we take amino acids in our vitamins 'cause they form the
00:31:40.609 --> 00:31:43.212
Building blocks of our proteins.
00:31:43.212 --> 00:31:45.114
It turns out, and this is some of the research that intelligent
00:31:45.114 --> 00:31:47.717
Science theorists are doing, that the ordering of those amino
00:31:47.717 --> 00:31:50.753
Acids and proteins has to be just right.
00:31:50.753 --> 00:31:53.222
Those amino acids have to be in precisely the right order in
00:31:53.222 --> 00:31:56.425
Order for proteins to be able to do their functions.
00:31:56.425 --> 00:31:59.328
In fact, one, id theorist, a protein scientist named douglas
00:31:59.328 --> 00:32:02.565
Axe, got his phd at caltech, he found that for a very typical
00:32:02.565 --> 00:32:07.436
Protein, the likelihood of chance generating the amino
00:32:07.436 --> 00:32:11.340
Acids in just the right order for those proteins to be able to
00:32:11.340 --> 00:32:14.176
Work is less than one in ten of the 77th power, okay?
00:32:14.176 --> 00:32:17.880
So we can ask is, what is generating those amino acids to
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.617
Be in the right order?
00:32:21.617 --> 00:32:22.952
Well, in our experience, the only kind of cause that can
00:32:22.952 --> 00:32:25.354
Generate the information that we see in these proteins is
00:32:25.354 --> 00:32:28.824
An intelligent cause.
00:32:28.824 --> 00:32:30.159
So then we make a conclusion and that conclusion is that an
00:32:30.159 --> 00:32:32.428
Intelligence is the best explanation for the information
00:32:32.428 --> 00:32:35.865
That we see in living systems.
00:32:35.865 --> 00:32:37.199
And so ideas using the scientific method, it's doing
00:32:37.199 --> 00:32:40.569
Research to back up our findings and it's being done by
00:32:40.569 --> 00:32:43.072
Scientists from highly credible institutions.
00:32:43.072 --> 00:32:45.508
So i think by any reasonable measure, intelligent design is
00:32:45.508 --> 00:32:49.111
A scientific theory.
00:32:49.111 --> 00:32:50.479
Kirk: wow.
00:32:50.479 --> 00:32:51.814
I just, i absolutely love this.
00:32:51.814 --> 00:32:53.182
I geek out on this kind of stuff and i always want to hear what's
00:32:53.182 --> 00:32:57.286
Next, what's next.
00:32:57.286 --> 00:32:58.654
So, what would you say are the top lines of arguments that
00:32:58.654 --> 00:33:03.225
Support intelligent design.
00:33:03.225 --> 00:33:04.560
Right now you're talking about the fine tuning of proteins and
00:33:04.560 --> 00:33:07.463
Amino acids.
00:33:07.463 --> 00:33:08.798
What are some of the other top lines of argumentation for id?
00:33:08.798 --> 00:33:13.135
Casey: sure.
00:33:13.135 --> 00:33:14.470
So i would give three main lines of evidence that i like to talk
00:33:14.470 --> 00:33:16.572
About as the evidence for intelligent design.
00:33:16.572 --> 00:33:18.541
The first line of evidence is that our universe had
00:33:18.541 --> 00:33:20.776
A beginning.
00:33:20.776 --> 00:33:22.111
But one of the greatest discoveries of physics and
00:33:22.111 --> 00:33:23.479
Cosmology over the last 100 years is that our universe had
00:33:23.479 --> 00:33:26.082
A beginning.
00:33:26.082 --> 00:33:27.450
And if it had a beginning, that implies some super powerful
00:33:27.450 --> 00:33:30.152
First cause that exists outside of space and time to get our
00:33:30.152 --> 00:33:33.722
Universe going.
00:33:33.722 --> 00:33:35.057
That's really what we would call god in many cases, right?
00:33:35.057 --> 00:33:37.593
So i think that an intelligent cause, super intelligent outside
00:33:37.593 --> 00:33:40.996
Of space and time is the best explanation for the beginning to
00:33:40.996 --> 00:33:43.899
The universe.
00:33:43.899 --> 00:33:45.267
The next line of evidence would be the fine tuning of the laws
00:33:45.267 --> 00:33:47.703
Of nature.
00:33:47.703 --> 00:33:49.038
Again, a major discovery in physics and cosmology over the
00:33:49.038 --> 00:33:51.874
Last 100 years is that the laws of nature have to have very
00:33:51.874 --> 00:33:55.044
Precise values if we can live in a universe where life can exist.
00:33:55.044 --> 00:33:58.414
We're talking about things like the fundamental laws and
00:33:58.414 --> 00:34:01.684
Concepts of nature like the strength of the force of gravity
00:34:01.684 --> 00:34:04.887
Or the strength of the electromagnetic force.
00:34:04.887 --> 00:34:07.623
But all of the fine tuning of nature is kind of blown away by
00:34:07.623 --> 00:34:10.826
One particular fine tuning parameter and that is the
00:34:10.826 --> 00:34:13.762
Initial entropy of the universe.
00:34:13.762 --> 00:34:15.464
And it turns out that if you're to be able to form things like
00:34:15.464 --> 00:34:18.901
Galaxies and stars and planets, the initial entropy of the
00:34:18.901 --> 00:34:21.604
Universe has to be fine-tuned to within one part in ten raised to
00:34:21.604 --> 00:34:25.508
The power of ten to the 123rd power.
00:34:25.508 --> 00:34:29.011
Okay, kirk, we can't even write out numbers like that.
00:34:29.011 --> 00:34:31.981
They're so, so small.
00:34:31.981 --> 00:34:33.916
If you were to try to write out that number, writing 1000 zeros
00:34:33.916 --> 00:34:37.119
Per second, you would die trillions and trillions and
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:39.788
Trillions of years before we could finish writing out that
00:34:39.788 --> 00:34:42.391
Number, okay?
00:34:42.391 --> 00:34:43.759
So we're talking about some super intelligent cause has fine
00:34:43.759 --> 00:34:47.096
Tuned the laws of nature, crafted the laws of
00:34:47.096 --> 00:34:49.765
The universe.
00:34:49.765 --> 00:34:51.100
This shows an incredible amount of care and really intelligence
00:34:51.100 --> 00:34:54.803
That was necessary to create our universe.
00:34:54.803 --> 00:34:56.972
So again, this is where intelligent design comes in.
00:34:56.972 --> 00:34:59.708
I don't wanna to go on and on.
00:34:59.708 --> 00:35:01.076
We can talk also about the information in life.
00:35:01.076 --> 00:35:03.345
Life runs on information.
00:35:03.345 --> 00:35:04.713
That's one of the greatest discoveries of the last 50 or
00:35:04.713 --> 00:35:07.082
60 years.
00:35:07.082 --> 00:35:08.417
Again, we have information in our dna.
00:35:08.417 --> 00:35:10.052
But kirk, a dna molecule by itself it's kind of like having
00:35:10.052 --> 00:35:13.355
A dvd.
00:35:13.355 --> 00:35:14.723
Remember we used to watch dvds to watch movies?
00:35:14.723 --> 00:35:16.458
Yeah, so a dvd by itself is basically useless, right?
00:35:16.458 --> 00:35:19.161
You need some machinery to read and interpret that information,
00:35:19.161 --> 00:35:23.098
Those instructions on the dvd to give you some kind of
00:35:23.098 --> 00:35:25.935
A useful output.
00:35:25.935 --> 00:35:27.269
Well, it turns out dna is exactly the same.
00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:29.872
A dna molecule by itself is not going to do anything for you.
00:35:29.872 --> 00:35:33.442
You need machinery in your cells to read the information on the
00:35:33.442 --> 00:35:37.746
Dna and give you some kind of useful output.
00:35:37.746 --> 00:35:40.482
So we literally have molecular machines in our cells that can
00:35:40.482 --> 00:35:43.752
Read commands and codes in our dna, interpret those
00:35:43.752 --> 00:35:47.389
Instructions, and then execute them and produce the output.
00:35:47.389 --> 00:35:50.726
But where in our experience to things like computer-like code,
00:35:50.726 --> 00:35:53.796
You know, language-based code and then information processing
00:35:53.796 --> 00:35:57.466
To read, interpret, and execute those commands.
00:35:57.466 --> 00:35:59.902
And then machine like structures.
00:35:59.902 --> 00:36:01.604
Where in our experience do those things come from?
00:36:01.604 --> 00:36:03.772
In all of our experience they have only one--
00:36:03.772 --> 00:36:05.441
Kirk: i know. i know.
00:36:05.441 --> 00:36:08.110
Casey: what do you think? kirk: intelligence.
00:36:08.110 --> 00:36:09.511
Casey: intelligence, exactly, kirk.
00:36:09.511 --> 00:36:11.180
So intelligence is the best explanation for what we see
00:36:11.180 --> 00:36:13.215
At the very heart of life.
00:36:13.215 --> 00:36:14.550
Kirk: oh, i love this. i love this.
00:36:14.550 --> 00:36:17.253
Are you loving this like i'm loving this?
00:36:17.253 --> 00:36:18.954
Okay, i have heard that now, today, in our lifetime, there's
00:36:18.954 --> 00:36:22.925
Never been a better opportunity for intelligent design
00:36:22.925 --> 00:36:28.764
Scientists to posit that the human origins line up with what
00:36:28.764 --> 00:36:35.337
We see in the bible in the book of genesis with adam and eve.
00:36:35.337 --> 00:36:39.241
Can you unpack that for us?
00:36:39.241 --> 00:36:40.943
Casey: sure. so i am a christian.
00:36:40.943 --> 00:36:42.978
I do believe in adam and eve.
00:36:42.978 --> 00:36:44.313
I don't know if i can prove to you, you know,
00:36:44.313 --> 00:36:46.348
Scientifically that adam and eve existed.
00:36:46.348 --> 00:36:47.750
What i can say is that the evidence is very consistent with
00:36:47.750 --> 00:36:51.320
The biblical view that we originated from just an initial
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:54.089
Pair of two individuals, okay?
00:36:54.089 --> 00:36:56.058
So one of my favorite lines of evidence to talk about here is
00:36:56.058 --> 00:36:58.861
From the fossil record.
00:36:58.861 --> 00:37:00.195
When we look at the fossil record, we see a distinct break
00:37:00.195 --> 00:37:03.499
In the fossil record between what i would call ape-like
00:37:03.499 --> 00:37:06.068
Creatures and human-like creatures.
00:37:06.068 --> 00:37:08.170
That alone shows, i think, a design event in the history of
00:37:08.170 --> 00:37:11.840
Life that shows that basically we were divinely created by an
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:17.112
Intelligent cause by god, basically, 'cause we see the
00:37:17.112 --> 00:37:20.349
Human-like body plan appearing very abruptly in the fossil
00:37:20.349 --> 00:37:24.153
Record and that is not compatible with the
00:37:24.153 --> 00:37:26.388
Darwinian explanation.
00:37:26.388 --> 00:37:27.756
It's much more compatible with intelligent design.
00:37:27.756 --> 00:37:30.526
Secondly, let's talk about human genetics, okay?
00:37:30.526 --> 00:37:32.895
You've heard that old statistic that says that we are 99%
00:37:32.895 --> 00:37:36.332
Genetically similar to chimps.
00:37:36.332 --> 00:37:37.800
Well, guess what?
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.134
There was a paper that came out very recently in april of this
00:37:39.134 --> 00:37:41.637
Year, 2025, which found that actually we are somewhere
00:37:41.637 --> 00:37:45.341
Between 14% to 15% genetically different from chimps.
00:37:45.341 --> 00:37:49.845
That old 99% statistic that we're 99% the same is no
00:37:49.845 --> 00:37:53.549
Longer true.
00:37:53.549 --> 00:37:54.883
The true degree of genetic difference between humans and
00:37:54.883 --> 00:37:57.786
Chimps is an order of magnitude greater, ten times greater than
00:37:57.786 --> 00:38:01.623
What we've been told.
00:38:01.623 --> 00:38:02.991
It's more like 14% to 15% genetically different between
00:38:02.991 --> 00:38:05.527
Humans and chimps.
00:38:05.527 --> 00:38:06.862
Then finally, think about human psychology.
00:38:06.862 --> 00:38:09.765
Sometimes we talk--we hear about this field of evolutionary
00:38:09.765 --> 00:38:11.834
Psychology which says that human behavior can be explained in
00:38:11.834 --> 00:38:15.604
Evolutionary terms.
00:38:15.604 --> 00:38:16.939
But why do humans do things like building cathedrals, studying
00:38:16.939 --> 00:38:20.876
Science, creating music, worshiping god?
00:38:20.876 --> 00:38:23.746
None of these very precious and cherished behaviors of human
00:38:23.746 --> 00:38:27.750
Beings have any survival value if all our ancestors had to do
00:38:27.750 --> 00:38:32.187
Was, you know, basically survive and reproduce on the savannah.
00:38:32.187 --> 00:38:36.024
Kirk: why are they making stain glass windows and orchestras?
00:38:36.024 --> 00:38:37.793
Casey: why are we painting the sistine chapel?
00:38:37.793 --> 00:38:39.995
Why does every culture around the world, i don't care where we
00:38:39.995 --> 00:38:42.197
Go, we create music, we worship divine beings?
00:38:42.197 --> 00:38:46.101
None of these traits have any survival value under basically
00:38:46.101 --> 00:38:49.938
An evolutionary worldview.
00:38:49.938 --> 00:38:51.440
So i think this shows that humans were designed for higher
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.076
Purposes and we're not just around here to survive
00:38:54.076 --> 00:38:56.912
And reproduce.
00:38:56.912 --> 00:38:58.247
We're created for something greater than that.
00:38:58.247 --> 00:38:59.615
Kirk: that's right.
00:38:59.615 --> 00:39:00.949
Wow, that is fascinating.
00:39:00.949 --> 00:39:02.317
Before we go to a break, how should christians think
00:39:02.317 --> 00:39:05.821
About origins?
00:39:05.821 --> 00:39:07.856
I know some hold a view of a relatively young earth between
00:39:07.856 --> 00:39:11.627
6000, 10,000 years old and others will hold a relatively
00:39:11.627 --> 00:39:16.098
Older view of the earth.
00:39:16.098 --> 00:39:19.201
How do you look at that subject and does it matter?
00:39:19.201 --> 00:39:22.271
Casey: yeah, exactly, kirk.
00:39:22.271 --> 00:39:23.772
I respect the fact that christians hold different views
00:39:23.772 --> 00:39:26.308
On the topic of the age of the earth.
00:39:26.308 --> 00:39:28.110
But for me, a far more important question than the age of the
00:39:28.110 --> 00:39:31.046
Earth is whether or not there is a designer and a creator behind
00:39:31.046 --> 00:39:34.850
Life in the universe.
00:39:34.850 --> 00:39:36.218
If you go out and talk to your next door neighbor who's
00:39:36.218 --> 00:39:37.853
An atheist and you're trying to share your faith with them, you
00:39:37.853 --> 00:39:40.556
Know, they're not gonna really care how old the earth is.
00:39:40.556 --> 00:39:42.825
Or if you say, look, i think that this is how you fit the
00:39:42.825 --> 00:39:44.726
Bible and science together, those are important questions,
00:39:44.726 --> 00:39:47.329
Don't get me wrong, but they're gonna say, "well, i don't accept
00:39:47.329 --> 00:39:49.631
The bible."
00:39:49.631 --> 00:39:50.999
What you can do when you're talking to next door neighbors
00:39:50.999 --> 00:39:52.468
You can say, "look, the scientific evidence, even
00:39:52.468 --> 00:39:54.770
Evidence that is accepted by mainstream science shows a need
00:39:54.770 --> 00:39:58.674
For an intelligent cause, a creator behind life
00:39:58.674 --> 00:40:01.510
In the universe."
00:40:01.510 --> 00:40:02.845
This, i think, is the kind of evidence that your next door
00:40:02.845 --> 00:40:04.746
Neighbor can accept before they're gonna, you know, get
00:40:04.746 --> 00:40:06.882
Into talking about whether or not they accept the bible, they
00:40:06.882 --> 00:40:09.651
Will accept scientific evidence that shows there's evidence for
00:40:09.651 --> 00:40:12.588
Life and a universe being designed by a creator.
00:40:12.588 --> 00:40:17.059
Kirk: this is so good and this is bringing up even more
00:40:17.059 --> 00:40:19.595
Questions in my mind, but i am so thankful that as a former
00:40:19.595 --> 00:40:24.633
Atheist, someone was able to present the argument for
00:40:24.633 --> 00:40:28.437
Intelligent design to me in such a way that helped me open up the
00:40:28.437 --> 00:40:32.474
Door intellectually, where i didn't feel like i had to check
00:40:32.474 --> 00:40:35.744
My brain at the door in order to become a christian.
00:40:35.744 --> 00:40:39.348
And this book that you've written or co-written together
00:40:39.348 --> 00:40:43.151
With your colleagues is, you know, it's a lot to digest, but
00:40:43.151 --> 00:40:47.623
We can take it bit by bit and get some of these arguments
00:40:47.623 --> 00:40:50.826
Under our belt to share our faith.
00:40:50.826 --> 00:40:52.494
After the break, we're gonna talk more with casey about how
00:40:52.494 --> 00:40:55.564
We as christians can use science to share our faith.
00:40:55.564 --> 00:40:58.967
So don't go away.
00:40:58.967 --> 00:41:05.994
So don't go away.
00:41:05.994 --> 00:41:09.879
Kirk: oh, we're having such a good time.
00:41:13.783 --> 00:41:15.818
We're back with casey luskin discussing the evidence that
00:41:15.818 --> 00:41:19.122
Supports intelligent design.
00:41:19.122 --> 00:41:21.524
Okay, casey, bottom line, are science and faith compatible?
00:41:21.524 --> 00:41:27.730
Do we have to choose one or the other or can they be friends?
00:41:27.730 --> 00:41:31.634
Casey: i would say that science and faith are very compatible
00:41:31.634 --> 00:41:34.070
And in fact, they mutually reinforce one another.
00:41:34.070 --> 00:41:36.839
I'm a scientist, not a theologian, so i come at this
00:41:36.839 --> 00:41:39.242
From the scientific perspective.
00:41:39.242 --> 00:41:41.210
But i would say that what we find in nature, again,
00:41:41.210 --> 00:41:44.347
Is evidence for an intelligent cause from the microscopic, you
00:41:44.347 --> 00:41:47.750
Know, molecules that we see in ourselves to the macro
00:41:47.750 --> 00:41:50.286
Architecture of the universe, we are seeing evidence for design
00:41:50.286 --> 00:41:52.889
And nature.
00:41:52.889 --> 00:41:54.257
And from a christian perspective, this is consistent
00:41:54.257 --> 00:41:55.925
With what the bible says, romans 1:20, which says that god is
00:41:55.925 --> 00:41:59.362
Clearly seen in what has been made, i think that we find that
00:41:59.362 --> 00:42:02.498
Being affirmed by science.
00:42:02.498 --> 00:42:04.133
So yeah, absolutely, science and faith are compatible.
00:42:04.133 --> 00:42:06.869
Kirk: would you agree with me that i actually had faith as
00:42:06.869 --> 00:42:12.909
An atheist, but in a different sense i had faith that there was
00:42:12.909 --> 00:42:17.146
No god.
00:42:17.146 --> 00:42:18.481
And now in light of the evidence, i think it takes more
00:42:18.481 --> 00:42:20.850
Faith, blind faith to remain an atheist than it does to be
00:42:20.850 --> 00:42:26.222
A christian.
00:42:26.222 --> 00:42:27.557
So, would you agree that even secular humanist, atheist
00:42:27.557 --> 00:42:31.961
Scientists have some version of faith?
00:42:31.961 --> 00:42:35.231
Casey: absolutely.
00:42:35.231 --> 00:42:36.599
I mean, everybody has faith in some kind of a foundation of
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:38.568
Their worldview, okay?
00:42:38.568 --> 00:42:40.036
And so, what--and you can see that in some of the answers that
00:42:40.036 --> 00:42:43.272
Atheists are coming up with to respond to the arguments for
00:42:43.272 --> 00:42:46.209
Intelligent design, okay.
00:42:46.209 --> 00:42:47.543
So we talked about the origin of the universe.
00:42:47.543 --> 00:42:49.846
We think that an intelligent cause, a first cause is the best
00:42:49.846 --> 00:42:52.949
Explanation, something outside of space and time that created
00:42:52.949 --> 00:42:55.785
The universe.
00:42:55.785 --> 00:42:57.153
Well, how did the atheists respond to that?
00:42:57.153 --> 00:42:58.488
They will say that the universe created itself, okay.
00:42:58.488 --> 00:43:00.923
Well, where in our experience do we see universes coming into
00:43:00.923 --> 00:43:04.627
Existence on their own or matter creating itself?
00:43:04.627 --> 00:43:07.296
We have no experience with that.
00:43:07.296 --> 00:43:08.665
So this is not a good rebuttal.
00:43:08.665 --> 00:43:09.999
Kirk: you can't test it.
00:43:09.999 --> 00:43:11.334
We've never observed it.
00:43:11.334 --> 00:43:12.702
So why do you have faith in it?
00:43:12.702 --> 00:43:14.137
This year is the 100th anniversary of the scopes trial.
00:43:14.137 --> 00:43:18.508
And just really quickly, the scopes trial was a trial that
00:43:18.508 --> 00:43:23.946
Took place in dayton, tennessee 100 years ago in 1925 when there
00:43:23.946 --> 00:43:28.384
Was a teacher in dayton, tennessee who was accused of the
00:43:28.384 --> 00:43:32.288
Crime of teaching darwinian evolution.
00:43:32.288 --> 00:43:36.092
This was an alternative view to the origin of the universe and
00:43:36.092 --> 00:43:39.562
The planet, then the biblical view.
00:43:39.562 --> 00:43:42.899
And now today, big science is now being criticized for
00:43:42.899 --> 00:43:48.171
Censoring and canceling what you as a scientist and others at the
00:43:48.171 --> 00:43:52.341
Discovery institute are positing as a better explanation for the
00:43:52.341 --> 00:43:57.013
Evidence of the origins of the world.
00:43:57.013 --> 00:43:58.781
So can you give us an update on this whole subject?
00:43:58.781 --> 00:44:01.551
Casey: yeah, absolutely, kirk.
00:44:01.551 --> 00:44:02.919
And i'm really glad that you brought this up 'cause it's
00:44:02.919 --> 00:44:04.721
Important for people to understand the dynamics, sort of
00:44:04.721 --> 00:44:07.256
The power dynamics that are going on in the scientific
00:44:07.256 --> 00:44:09.325
Community today to suppress the idea of intelligent design.
00:44:09.325 --> 00:44:12.929
So in the scopes trial, as you said, what was that trial about?
00:44:12.929 --> 00:44:15.932
It was about a group of folks 100 years ago basically tried to
00:44:15.932 --> 00:44:19.202
Make it a crime to teach evolution.
00:44:19.202 --> 00:44:21.404
Now, of course, that was wrong.
00:44:21.404 --> 00:44:22.772
We should never be making it a crime to talk about
00:44:22.772 --> 00:44:24.607
A scientific theory.
00:44:24.607 --> 00:44:25.975
Even if we disagree with that idea, we should never be making
00:44:25.975 --> 00:44:27.744
It, you know, illegal to talk about science, okay?
00:44:27.744 --> 00:44:30.646
But what we have today is what a former us supreme court justice
00:44:30.646 --> 00:44:34.851
Scalia called scopes in reverse, which basically we see that the
00:44:34.851 --> 00:44:39.355
Pro-intelligent design viewpoint is being censored
00:44:39.355 --> 00:44:42.024
And suppressed.
00:44:42.024 --> 00:44:43.359
And so there are many cases of scientists who have been
00:44:43.359 --> 00:44:45.495
Discriminated against and faced persecution because of their
00:44:45.495 --> 00:44:48.731
Support for intelligent design.
00:44:48.731 --> 00:44:50.299
A very famous example was richard sternberg.
00:44:50.299 --> 00:44:52.335
He was at the smithsonian institution, and when it came
00:44:52.335 --> 00:44:55.304
Out that he was a supporter of intelligent design, they
00:44:55.304 --> 00:44:57.740
Basically made his life miserable, hounded him out until
00:44:57.740 --> 00:45:00.543
He was forced to resign from the smithsonian.
00:45:00.543 --> 00:45:02.745
We even have seen speech codes being adopted at universities.
00:45:02.745 --> 00:45:06.682
At the university of idaho, there was a biology professor
00:45:06.682 --> 00:45:09.519
Named scott minnick who testified in favor of the
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:12.655
Constitutionality of teaching id in public schools.
00:45:12.655 --> 00:45:15.725
And in retaliation for that, they adopted a speech code which
00:45:15.725 --> 00:45:18.828
Basically said that evolution was the only view that they were
00:45:18.828 --> 00:45:22.031
Going to allow in their schools.
00:45:22.031 --> 00:45:24.133
Same thing happened to erica dean, a former professor of
00:45:24.133 --> 00:45:26.803
Physics at ball state university.
00:45:26.803 --> 00:45:28.805
He was basically shut down from teaching an interdisciplinary
00:45:28.805 --> 00:45:32.108
Class that mentioned intelligent design.
00:45:32.108 --> 00:45:34.577
And the freedom from religion foundation sent a letter to
00:45:34.577 --> 00:45:37.180
Their school and they ended up adopting a speech code saying
00:45:37.180 --> 00:45:39.882
That intelligent design was not allowed in their
00:45:39.882 --> 00:45:42.451
Science classes.
00:45:42.451 --> 00:45:43.820
So we've seen this over--this is just a tip of the iceberg, kirk.
00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:46.155
We've seen many cases of scientists being persecuted
00:45:46.155 --> 00:45:49.458
Because of their pro-id views.
00:45:49.458 --> 00:45:51.093
And this gets back to a really much larger problem that is the
00:45:51.093 --> 00:45:54.330
Politicization of science.
00:45:54.330 --> 00:45:56.265
This has been talked about a lot in the last few years that
00:45:56.265 --> 00:45:58.568
Science has become politicized and it is basically trying to
00:45:58.568 --> 00:46:01.971
Suppress credible minority scientific viewpoints.
00:46:01.971 --> 00:46:05.074
And this is really not good for science.
00:46:05.074 --> 00:46:06.909
Science needs to allow itself to hear minority
00:46:06.909 --> 00:46:09.412
Scientific viewpoints.
00:46:09.412 --> 00:46:10.746
Every single scientific revolution that has ever taken
00:46:10.746 --> 00:46:13.216
Place happened because scientists were able to hear
00:46:13.216 --> 00:46:16.485
From those minority scientific views.
00:46:16.485 --> 00:46:18.454
And if minority scientific views don't have the opportunity to be
00:46:18.454 --> 00:46:21.457
Heard, then new ideas can never take root or be heard in the
00:46:21.457 --> 00:46:24.927
Scientific community.
00:46:24.927 --> 00:46:26.295
Kirk: that's a really, really good point.
00:46:26.295 --> 00:46:28.664
Let's talk on a very practical level for everyday guys like me,
00:46:28.664 --> 00:46:33.369
The dad, the mom, the student who would like to be able to at
00:46:33.369 --> 00:46:38.074
Least have one well rehearsed argument from science to help
00:46:38.074 --> 00:46:44.981
Share their faith with a friend.
00:46:44.981 --> 00:46:48.050
What would you recommend as that entry level argument?
00:46:48.050 --> 00:46:52.488
Casey: sure.
00:46:52.488 --> 00:46:53.856
I think my personal favorite argument is the information that
00:46:53.856 --> 00:46:56.659
We see in dna.
00:46:56.659 --> 00:46:57.994
And we talked about this a little bit earlier, but what do
00:46:57.994 --> 00:47:00.263
We see at the very heart of life?
00:47:00.263 --> 00:47:02.231
We see in our dna a language-based code.
00:47:02.231 --> 00:47:05.468
Bill gates has said that dna is like computer software but far,
00:47:05.468 --> 00:47:09.205
Far more advanced than any software we've ever created.
00:47:09.205 --> 00:47:12.241
The information we see in life, the complexity of the simplest
00:47:12.241 --> 00:47:15.378
Bacterial cell, kirk, is far more complicated than any human
00:47:15.378 --> 00:47:19.515
Technology we've ever devised.
00:47:19.515 --> 00:47:20.883
Cell phones don't hold a candle compared to the simplest living
00:47:20.883 --> 00:47:24.320
Cell that we've discovered.
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:25.721
So, you know, i think that what we see in life just points that
00:47:25.721 --> 00:47:28.925
There is an incredibly intelligent creator behind life
00:47:28.925 --> 00:47:32.161
And also behind the universe.
00:47:32.161 --> 00:47:34.263
Kirk: i think it was a scientist named berlinsky who said in
00:47:34.263 --> 00:47:38.434
A documentary that i saw about the fine tuned nature
00:47:38.434 --> 00:47:43.372
Of the universe.
00:47:43.372 --> 00:47:44.707
And he was asked, "if in darwin's day, when he spoke
00:47:44.707 --> 00:47:47.910
About the simple cell, if that could be equated to
00:47:47.910 --> 00:47:52.048
An oldsmobile in terms of complexity, what do we know now
00:47:52.048 --> 00:47:55.885
About the human cell?
00:47:55.885 --> 00:47:57.219
What would you liken it to?"
00:47:57.219 --> 00:47:58.587
And he said, "a universe."
00:47:58.587 --> 00:48:01.424
Casey: i think that's a very fair comparison.
00:48:01.424 --> 00:48:03.592
We're still discovering the complexity of life.
00:48:03.592 --> 00:48:05.861
And the amazing thing is that the more and more we discover
00:48:05.861 --> 00:48:08.230
About cells, about living systems, the deeper we untangle
00:48:08.230 --> 00:48:11.901
The complexity of life, the more complex it gets.
00:48:11.901 --> 00:48:14.971
Kirk: this is so exciting.
00:48:14.971 --> 00:48:16.305
We could talk for hours, but thank you so much for coming
00:48:16.305 --> 00:48:18.407
On and sharing all this with us today.
00:48:18.407 --> 00:48:19.742
Casey: thank you, kirk.
00:48:19.742 --> 00:48:21.077
It was a lot of fun.
00:48:21.077 --> 00:48:22.411
Kirk: we'll review today's "takeaways" right after
00:48:22.411 --> 00:48:23.746
The break.
00:48:23.746 --> 00:48:30.987
The break.
00:48:30.987 --> 00:48:38.751
Kirk: welcome back.
00:48:38.884 --> 00:48:39.218
I wanna thank our guests justin brierley and casey luskin for
00:48:40.419 --> 00:48:43.656
Giving us so much to think about on the topics of the existence
00:48:43.656 --> 00:48:47.360
Of god, christian worldview, science, and intelligent design.
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:52.231
Here's a few of our takeaways.
00:48:52.231 --> 00:48:54.633
Begin the conversation.
00:48:54.633 --> 00:48:56.635
What a practical challenge from justin.
00:48:56.635 --> 00:48:58.904
After sharing why he's confident, the christian
00:48:58.904 --> 00:49:01.841
Worldview is not only reasonable, but compelling.
00:49:01.841 --> 00:49:05.378
It just makes sense of us and the world we live in.
00:49:05.378 --> 00:49:09.615
Now, for many, the idea of beginning the conversation can
00:49:09.615 --> 00:49:13.552
Feel intimidating, maybe even a little scary, but remember what
00:49:13.552 --> 00:49:18.190
Justin reminded us.
00:49:18.190 --> 00:49:20.159
Most people have questions about faith or are on a spiritual
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:24.630
Journey searching for meaning.
00:49:24.630 --> 00:49:27.666
More people are open to these conversations than we
00:49:27.666 --> 00:49:30.436
Often realize.
00:49:30.436 --> 00:49:32.571
Most importantly, we also have a story to share one of truth,
00:49:32.571 --> 00:49:36.675
Love, and redemption, and people want to hear it.
00:49:36.675 --> 00:49:40.212
So if you go into your week prayed up full of grace with
00:49:40.212 --> 00:49:44.450
These truths in mind, beginning a spiritual conversation may not
00:49:44.450 --> 00:49:48.921
Feel like a burden.
00:49:48.921 --> 00:49:50.256
It might feel like a privilege, something we can't believe we
00:49:50.256 --> 00:49:54.627
Get to do.
00:49:54.627 --> 00:49:55.995
This week ask god for opportunities to begin
00:49:55.995 --> 00:49:59.498
The conversation.
00:49:59.498 --> 00:50:01.901
Faith is active.
00:50:01.901 --> 00:50:04.170
Justin brierley reminded us of something important.
00:50:04.170 --> 00:50:07.339
God is not ultimately after just our belief that he exists, even
00:50:07.339 --> 00:50:12.344
The devil believes in god.
00:50:12.344 --> 00:50:15.581
God desires our faith, our trust in him.
00:50:15.581 --> 00:50:19.718
Real faith is more than just agreement, it's action.
00:50:19.718 --> 00:50:23.823
It means trusting in something and doing something about it.
00:50:23.823 --> 00:50:28.461
It's a real commitment to live god's way even when it's
00:50:28.461 --> 00:50:32.598
Difficult or countercultural.
00:50:32.598 --> 00:50:35.301
Thankfully, scripture is filled with examples that show our
00:50:35.301 --> 00:50:39.171
Trust in god is not blind trust.
00:50:39.171 --> 00:50:42.241
We see his faithfulness time and time again.
00:50:42.241 --> 00:50:45.311
We see his wisdom and how he's designed the world to work.
00:50:45.311 --> 00:50:49.281
And when we follow his ways, we don't just survive, we flourish.
00:50:49.281 --> 00:50:54.286
That is the good life and that's what it means to have
00:50:54.286 --> 00:50:58.124
A worldview that's not only true, but strong,
00:50:58.124 --> 00:51:02.628
An intellectual parachute that holds.
00:51:02.628 --> 00:51:06.065
Information needs intelligence.
00:51:06.065 --> 00:51:08.534
I loved this point from casey luskin.
00:51:08.534 --> 00:51:11.403
This is an incredible insight into the complexities of nature,
00:51:11.403 --> 00:51:15.741
The fine tuning of the universe for life, the molecular
00:51:15.741 --> 00:51:19.445
Machinery inside of our own cells.
00:51:19.445 --> 00:51:21.480
It is all amazing.
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:23.849
One example that always inspires awe and curiosity in me is dna.
00:51:23.849 --> 00:51:30.523
Within every strand of dna is a language-based code like
00:51:30.523 --> 00:51:35.761
Computer software only far more advanced and that raises
00:51:35.761 --> 00:51:39.865
An obvious question, but it's a powerful one.
00:51:39.865 --> 00:51:43.102
Where did all the information come from?
00:51:43.102 --> 00:51:45.538
In our everyday human experience, we know that new
00:51:45.538 --> 00:51:49.708
Information only comes from a mind, from intelligence.
00:51:49.708 --> 00:51:54.947
That's why remembering a simple phrase like, "information needs
00:51:54.947 --> 00:52:00.052
An intelligence," can be such a powerful tool.
00:52:00.052 --> 00:52:03.322
It's easy to remember and it opens up all kinds of doors
00:52:03.322 --> 00:52:06.992
In conversations.
00:52:06.992 --> 00:52:08.561
So whether you're geeking out with friends about the beauty of
00:52:08.561 --> 00:52:11.897
God's design or you're stepping into a deeper conversation about
00:52:11.897 --> 00:52:15.801
Faith and science, this little phrase can be
00:52:15.801 --> 00:52:19.071
A great springboard.
00:52:19.071 --> 00:52:21.073
So this week, let's not just hold our faith in our hearts,
00:52:21.073 --> 00:52:25.211
Let's live it out loud, speak it boldly, and be ready to begin
00:52:25.211 --> 00:52:30.716
The conversation.
00:52:30.716 --> 00:52:32.218
That's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:32.218 --> 00:52:34.153
Thank you for watching and if you've enjoyed this show, please
00:52:34.153 --> 00:52:37.323
Don't forget to set your dvr so you never miss an episode.
00:52:37.323 --> 00:52:41.126
And of course you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:52:41.126 --> 00:52:43.796
Searching for "takeaways" on tbn+ or by visiting the kirk
00:52:43.796 --> 00:52:48.033
Cameron on tbn youtube channel.
00:52:48.033 --> 00:52:50.869
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:52:50.869 --> 00:52:54.773
♪♪♪
00:52:54.773 --> 00:52:54.773

Justin Brierley & Casey Luskin: Making a Case of Why God Exists | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

August 4, 2025 | 54:47

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