Lisa Harper & Mary Wiley: Growing Closer to God | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

April 7, 2025 | 53:25

Kirk Cameron is joined by best-selling author, Lisa Harper, to discuss practical applications of theological truths and author Mary Wiley sharing how we can teach our children to read and understand the Bible with confidence.

#Theology #HolySpirit #Children #RelationshipwithGod #SeekGod #Bible #Religion #Study #SpiritualGrowth #PoweroftheHolySpirit #TalkShow #LisaHarper #Transformation #Intimacy #Kids #KirkCameron #TakeawaysWithKirkCameron

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Lisa Harper & Mary Wiley: Growing Closer to God | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | April 7, 2025

Kirk cameron: do you ever wonder if god is really working in
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Your life?
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Do you long to be closer to him and hear his voice and know that
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He's guiding your every step?
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Well, the bible has been described as not just a book,
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But a library of books that contain everything we need to
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Live healthy, happy lives.
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By taking the time to read it, we also discover how practical
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His word is for us and how much god really does speak to us and
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Care about us.
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Today, we're gonna discuss how to apply basic theological
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Truths to our life and how we can teach our children to
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Discover and love the bible for themselves.
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We'll do this with my guests lisa harper and mary wiley right
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Now on "takeaways."
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Lisa harper: theology is to be lived.
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It's more about intimacy with jesus than it is accruing
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Information about god.
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Mary wiley: and so the bible is alive and moving.
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It is not like a text that we would read for self-help,
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Because it transforms us through the work of the
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Spirit from the inside out.
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♪♪♪
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Kirk: with 30-plus years of ministry experience, it is so
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Great to have bestselling author, popular speaker, and
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Bible teacher lisa harper joining us today to discuss, "a
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Jesus shaped life," taking theological concepts and
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Transforming them into practical wisdom that we can apply
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To our everyday lives.
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Lisa, i'm so thankful that you're here on "takeaways."
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Lisa: oh, thank you for having me, i was so tickled.
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Kirk: well, i know you've worked at focus on the family and
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You've been writing books for so long, and the size of that bible
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Is shocking.
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Lisa: it's all smoke and mirrors, kirk.
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Kirk: with all of the notes and everything that you've got
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In there.
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And you've written a book on theology.
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Why did you write this book of all books?
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Lisa: you know, i went back to school.
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I've been studying a doctorate for the last several years
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Because i brought my daughter home from haiti, and i thought
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Missy with english as a second language is, you know, school's
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Gonna be probably dicey, and i thought, i'll just go back to
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School so we can do homework at the kitchen table together.
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And i think, you know, that we learn about jesus through holy
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Spirit and through this love letter we call the bible, so i
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Thought that'll kind of be cool to go back for a doctorate.
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I'm the dumbest person in my doctoral program.
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But what i didn't expect was to just be undone by these
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Theological concepts in my 50s that i knew kind of the concept
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Maybe in my 20s or 30s, but i associated theology more with
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Learning than with the living.
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I associated theology with, you know, old guys working in the
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Seminary, not with intimacy with jesus, and it has wrecked my
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Life in the best way.
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Kirk: wow, and why the title, "a jesus shaped life"?
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Lisa: yeah, because in my experience, and i'll just speak
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For myself, in the past when i would use multi-syllabic
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Theological words, it was usually a smokescreen so people
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Wouldn't check under the hood and find me to be a fraud.
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So i thought if i can use just enough greek and hebrew--
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Kirk: even though i'm not, i can sound like i
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Really know what i'm talking about.
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Lisa: you'll kind of find all the dents in my fender if you
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Get past those big words, and so when i began to understand that,
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You know, the root word "theology" comes from two greek
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Words, "theos," "god," "logos," "conversations about god," which
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Means it's not just for studious people or for pastors.
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We all have conversations about god.
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So at its core, everybody's a theologian.
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Some people are wackadoodle theologians 'cause they don't
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Base their theology in the parameters of scripture, but
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Theology is to be lived.
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It's more about intimacy with jesus than it is in accruing
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Information about god, and i think that's where it wrecked me
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Because i realized there's some places i wasn't leaning as fully
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As i could into jesus.
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I brought my mind to the table sometimes more so than my heart.
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And so, theology for me was more about study than it was about
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Being conformed to the image of christ and leaning into jesus.
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And so, it's taken me a long time to realize what you
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Just said.
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Theology was meant to be lived more than studied.
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Of course, we've got to be bereans and make sure what
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We're talking about is framed by scripture.
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But if it doesn't lead to more intimacy with jesus, more
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Compassion for the world around us, then it's just noise.
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Kirk: yeah, everybody wants to know about god.
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If the atheist is beginning to wonder that--what god might be
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Like, if he doesn't stick with scripture, he may come to the
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Conclusion that somehow that god is some megalomaniacal tyrant
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Monster who's just looking to control you and have you praise
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Him for the sake of his fragile ego.
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Lisa: that's right, or he has a 50-pound bible
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And he's just waiting to smack us over the head with it.
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Or he's santa.
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Kirk: or he's santa, yeah.
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Or maybe you're god.
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But if we go to scripture, then we can find out how god's
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Revealed himself.
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Lisa: that's right.
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Kirk: well, where do you start if you're a beginner?
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Lisa: i mean, to even, where you said, where do we start, you
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Stop and think about the trinity.
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And very beginning, genesis 1:26, 27, our god is in us,
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Exists in perfect trinitarian form.
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And somebody who's either an unbeliever or maybe they've been
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Wounded in the church goes, "why does that matter?
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You know, that's several thousand years old.
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Why does it matter?"
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And you go, "well, the fact that our god exists," augustine says,
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"in perfect community unto himself."
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So he belongs in a perfect triune community, and we're made
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In that image.
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You go, "oh wow, loneliness came with the fall."
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We have a god who has wired us for relationship, wired us
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For family.
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And then some of the things start making sense and you
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Realize it's not a unibrowed angry god in the old testament
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And jesus with hair extensions, hugging lepers in the
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New testament.
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You know, that's not who that is.
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Kirk: did you say unibrow and hair extensions?
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Lisa: yes, i did.
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I did, because theology isn't boring, and i do think we have
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This binary view of god instead of going, "oh wow, the trinity
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Matters," because he knew that loneliness would come with
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The fall.
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Kirk: i think this is where theology gets cool in that many
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Of us have never thought about that, that god was in community
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Before he made anybody because you have the father, the son,
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And the holy spirit who are three persons within the one
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Godhead, which is a mindblower just to even think about that.
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I can say it, i can't really understand it, but i can say it.
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Lisa: oh, i think anybody who does is a total poser.
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We can't wrap our dinky minds fully around the trinity.
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Kirk: but that does help me understand why i want to be with
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Other people, and i don't ever want to be put in solitary
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Confinement because that's torture.
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Why is it torture?
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Well, the bible explains it, because you were made in the
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Image of a god who is relational.
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Lisa: that's right, that's right.
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And if you--if you're in christ, we feel loneliness, but if you
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Get the trinity, you get the paraclete holy spirit who's
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Always with us.
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You go, "oh, i'm actually never alone."
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So i think some of the deepest human longings are grief.
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Theology answers those questions.
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It's not just for smart guys with, you know, high water pants
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In dusty offices.
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Theology is meant to be lived.
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Helmut thielicke--i have a lot of pretend
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Theological boyfriends.
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They're all dead, so their wives can't get mad at me.
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But he's one of my favorite german theologians and he said
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This, i'm paraphrasing, but he said, "if theology doesn't work
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At the messy margins of life, and if it only works at the easy
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Middle, then it's not a theology at all because theology is for
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People who are desperately trying to engage with this god
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Who loves us more than we can ask or imagine."
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It's not big words, it--there's some big words that, you know,
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Represent these theological truisms, but they're all about
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The love of god and, ultimately, they're all about us leaning
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Into christ and imitating christ, being christoformic,
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Being shaped like him.
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Kirk: do you think it's a stretch to say that it was
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Jesus's understanding of who god is and his--when i say god, i
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Mean god the father, his "theology," so to speak.
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I think i struggle to say jesus's theology because he is
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God, but his understanding of god the father and his
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Relationship with him, his conversations with the father,
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And even paul's conversations and understanding who god is,
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That actually allowed them to do the hard things they did.
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Lisa: oh, 100%.
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Kirk: i think so too.
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He was--because if jesus knew who the father was, then he
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Could say, "if this cup can pass for me, please, but not
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My will but yours be done.
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I came for this hour. i'm all in."
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Lisa: right, well, and that takes us hypostatic union.
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You hear something like that and you're like, "oh my heavens, i'm
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Gonna examine the inside of my eyelids.
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That's so boring."
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And i'm like, actually, no.
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Hypostatic union is we have the savior who's
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Perfectly transcendent.
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The king of all kings condescended, laid down his
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Scepter and glory to be close to the likes of us.
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That's not a lofty theological concept.
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I long to have somebody who knows me at my
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Worst and loves me.
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Kirk: and loves me.
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I was thinking the other day, this is just a random thought,
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But i was really, like, boiling down what it is that my children
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Want, my wife wants, my friends want, what i want.
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And at the end of the day, i think i could boil it down to
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Two things.
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This is just my--the own--my own thought in my head.
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It was like, i wanna know i'm valued and i don't want to
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Be alone.
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And i don't think that makes me weak.
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I think it's because i'm--because
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I was made by god to be that way.
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And then i thought, wait a minute, actually, those are the
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Two things that god promises his children.
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He says, "i'll never leave you.
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I'll never forsake you.
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I'm--" basically, you're not going to be alone, and he
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Values me.
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And he demonstrated it by sending his son to pay the price
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For my sin.
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I'm like, that's it.
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It's to be loved and valued and to know that you're not gonna
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Be alone.
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Lisa: that's it.
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Kirk: and like, that's theology.
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And people look for that in a relationships, like a boyfriend
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Or a girlfriend, or they look for it in the approval of other
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People at work or through their sports or their intellect.
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It's like, would you just tell me that i'm valued and would you
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Just be with me?
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And it's like, if i can find that in god, now i can be secure
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Anywhere, regardless of my performance or your approval.
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I'm like, i'm solid.
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Lisa: that's right.
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When you find out that theology at its best, as the way god
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Designed it, conversations about god, is all about we're imago
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Dei, we're made in his image.
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So, every single one of us has inherent value.
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He's not mad at us.
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Holiness and a god who's mad at us are not congruent.
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And we have a place at the table.
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You know, we have a place next to jesus as co-heirs in christ.
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You go, "oh wow, theology all boils down to we're seen and
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We're loved."
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Kirk: so what does a jesus-shaped
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Life actually look like?
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If i read your book and i follow what's in here, am i gonna have
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A jesus-shaped life if god helps me and i follow this?
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Lisa: no, that's way too high, i promise.
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Kirk: okay, well, what does it look like?
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What are we shooting for?
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Lisa: i think it will give you--i don't think any book
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Makes us jesus-shaped.
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I think it's time with jesus.
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Kirk: okay, but what's the target we're looking at?
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Lisa: the target would be the more you do exactly what you
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Were saying.
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The more you actually dive into the deep things of god and you
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Find out, oh, this is less about scholarship than it is about
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Relationship, then the more you kind of exhale into, oh,
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Holiness is less about behavioral modification and it's
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More about me getting closer to jesus.
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And the closer i get to jesus and i recognize while i was
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Still a sinner, he loved me, the more i'll begin to reflect
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That compassion.
00:12:19.361 --> 00:12:20.729
So, some measure of the grace he's lavished on me begins to
00:12:20.729 --> 00:12:24.066
Leak out of me.
00:12:24.066 --> 00:12:25.401
Kirk: i love this, and i've got lots more questions.
00:12:25.401 --> 00:12:28.137
We're gonna talk more with lisa about applying biblical truths,
00:12:28.137 --> 00:12:31.674
And then later mary wiley is gonna join us and she's gonna
00:12:31.674 --> 00:12:35.277
Share how we can teach our children to spend more time
00:12:35.277 --> 00:12:39.114
With god, stay with us.
00:12:39.114 --> 00:12:40.616
Mary wiley: reading the bible, loving god, being molded by the
00:12:40.616 --> 00:12:43.953
Spirit through the words is not just an intellectual ascent.
00:12:43.953 --> 00:12:48.991
♪♪♪
00:12:48.991 --> 00:12:53.128
♪♪♪
00:12:53.359 --> 00:12:57.463
Kirk: we're back with speaker and bestselling author
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.602
Lisa harper.
00:13:03.602 --> 00:13:04.937
So lisa, in your book, you say that the biblical narrative
00:13:04.937 --> 00:13:09.041
Makes it clear that being a christian, a disciple of christ,
00:13:09.041 --> 00:13:11.710
Is much more about "we" than "me."
00:13:11.710 --> 00:13:14.546
Can you unpack that for us?
00:13:14.546 --> 00:13:15.914
Lisa: absolutely.
00:13:15.914 --> 00:13:17.249
We've got, in the new testament, there--98% of the imperatives,
00:13:17.249 --> 00:13:22.054
Fancy word that just means when god tells us to do something are
00:13:22.054 --> 00:13:25.357
Set in the context of community.
00:13:25.357 --> 00:13:27.393
So there's 59 imperatives where--
00:13:27.393 --> 00:13:29.528
Kirk: like?
00:13:29.528 --> 00:13:30.863
Lisa: like "love one another," "carry one another's burdens--"
00:13:30.863 --> 00:13:33.232
Kirk: oh, all the "one another's."
00:13:33.232 --> 00:13:34.600
Lisa: all the "one another's."
00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:35.934
So there's 59 "one another's" and all 59 are set in the
00:13:35.934 --> 00:13:38.570
Context of community.
00:13:38.570 --> 00:13:40.172
So, the massive majority of paul saying, "here's how you live
00:13:40.172 --> 00:13:45.210
Like jesus," are you live like jesus in community.
00:13:45.210 --> 00:13:48.914
You don't look or live like jesus in isolation.
00:13:48.914 --> 00:13:51.650
And so, i think in first world culture, we tend to privatize
00:13:51.650 --> 00:13:55.988
Our faith.
00:13:55.988 --> 00:13:57.322
It's "i put my hope in jesus christ,"
00:13:57.322 --> 00:13:59.124
"i've had my quiet time."
00:13:59.124 --> 00:14:00.459
And all that's great, except when you do that to the
00:14:00.459 --> 00:14:03.929
Exclusion of being with other people.
00:14:03.929 --> 00:14:06.298
So you look at the book of acts, everything was community, was
00:14:06.298 --> 00:14:10.069
Doing things together.
00:14:10.069 --> 00:14:11.437
And i look at my own life when i've been a jerk, when i've been
00:14:11.437 --> 00:14:15.007
Prideful, when i've been a poser, when i haven't been
00:14:15.007 --> 00:14:17.943
Faithful, it's because nobody's speaking into my life.
00:14:17.943 --> 00:14:21.647
So i think, you see somebody who looks like jesus, they're always
00:14:21.647 --> 00:14:26.018
Shoulder to shoulder with other people.
00:14:26.018 --> 00:14:27.386
Kirk: yeah, you're right.
00:14:27.386 --> 00:14:28.720
You know, it makes me think of that author bob goff, who is all
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:32.858
About--what's his motto?
00:14:32.858 --> 00:14:35.360
Like, "love other--love everyone and start with the people that
00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:38.430
Creep you out the most."
00:14:38.430 --> 00:14:39.765
And, really, that's what we're here for, is not for ourselves
00:14:39.765 --> 00:14:45.804
But for other people.
00:14:45.804 --> 00:14:47.172
Lisa: right, well, even if you wanna say the mission statement
00:14:47.172 --> 00:14:49.808
Of jesus, you know, in mark's gospel, he says, "i didn't come
00:14:49.808 --> 00:14:53.846
To be served.
00:14:53.846 --> 00:14:55.180
I came to serve, to give my life away as a ransom for many."
00:14:55.180 --> 00:14:58.217
That's, you know, that's right before he meets bartimaeus.
00:14:58.217 --> 00:15:00.719
He's on his way to easter.
00:15:00.719 --> 00:15:02.855
If i knew i was on my way to the cross, i'd be getting a massage,
00:15:02.855 --> 00:15:05.858
I'd be staying in the ritz-carlton, i'd be ordering
00:15:05.858 --> 00:15:07.960
A filet.
00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:09.328
I wouldn't be with people who bugged me.
00:15:09.328 --> 00:15:10.996
And there's jesus in the crowds, loving people well, saying,
00:15:10.996 --> 00:15:15.400
"bring him to me," about bartimaeus.
00:15:15.400 --> 00:15:17.336
And you go, "wow."
00:15:17.336 --> 00:15:18.704
Yeah, there were times that jesus--the core of his
00:15:18.704 --> 00:15:20.939
Relationship intimacy was, of course, god the father, so he
00:15:20.939 --> 00:15:24.042
Left people one side of the way--lake, went to be alone
00:15:24.042 --> 00:15:26.745
With god the father, but he was with people so much there were
00:15:26.745 --> 00:15:30.115
All those times in the gospels where he was in danger of being
00:15:30.115 --> 00:15:32.951
Crushed because he was with people.
00:15:32.951 --> 00:15:35.821
I think, i mean, show me a shepherd who doesn't smell like
00:15:35.821 --> 00:15:39.158
Sheep, and i can guarantee it's not a good church.
00:15:39.158 --> 00:15:42.161
Kirk: yeah, yeah, that really is what people are looking for, i
00:15:42.161 --> 00:15:47.432
Believe, in a church, in addition to good bible teaching,
00:15:47.432 --> 00:15:51.803
Because we have to have that, is they want community.
00:15:51.803 --> 00:15:54.706
They want community, community, community.
00:15:54.706 --> 00:15:56.208
I wanna do my life with people.
00:15:56.208 --> 00:15:57.609
I wanna go through life together.
00:15:57.609 --> 00:15:59.111
Lisa: as honest as i can, which takes us back to god saying,
00:15:59.111 --> 00:16:02.781
"you're made in our image."
00:16:02.781 --> 00:16:05.551
Kirk: so what i love about what you're saying to us is that we
00:16:05.551 --> 00:16:11.089
Don't like to be with other people just because we're scared
00:16:11.089 --> 00:16:15.460
To be alone or we're extroverts, that's just me.
00:16:15.460 --> 00:16:18.664
It's like, no, theology, that is, understanding who god is and
00:16:18.664 --> 00:16:24.102
How he made us, tells me why i like being around people.
00:16:24.102 --> 00:16:27.673
It's because i was made in the image of god, god is with me,
00:16:27.673 --> 00:16:31.176
He's always with me, and he wants us to be with other people
00:16:31.176 --> 00:16:34.379
Because i'm not here for myself, i'm here for others.
00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:37.416
Lisa: and it, to me, in my opinion, and i haven't finished
00:16:37.416 --> 00:16:40.886
My doctorate yet, so just take that for what it's worth.
00:16:40.886 --> 00:16:43.422
Don't pay much for this.
00:16:43.422 --> 00:16:44.890
But in my opinion, you see that communal element bleeding
00:16:44.890 --> 00:16:48.026
Through every facet of theology.
00:16:48.026 --> 00:16:49.528
You look at pneumatology, holy spirit, study of the holy
00:16:49.528 --> 00:16:52.397
Spirit, what is he called?
00:16:52.397 --> 00:16:53.932
He's our paraclete.
00:16:53.932 --> 00:16:56.001
He's the one who comes alongside.
00:16:56.001 --> 00:16:57.369
Kirk: not to be confused with "parakeet."
00:16:57.369 --> 00:16:59.071
Lisa: not to be confused with "parakeet."
00:16:59.071 --> 00:17:00.739
Yeah, i can get my words all mixed up.
00:17:00.739 --> 00:17:02.708
You think of eschatology, the study of last things.
00:17:02.708 --> 00:17:05.777
And remember what jesus said in mark 14.
00:17:05.777 --> 00:17:07.779
He said, "dad hasn't told me when i'm coming back, but don't
00:17:07.779 --> 00:17:11.116
Be afraid, be alert."
00:17:11.116 --> 00:17:13.852
And basically he says, "be together.
00:17:13.852 --> 00:17:16.255
Care for one another."
00:17:16.255 --> 00:17:17.623
And so you go, wow.
00:17:17.623 --> 00:17:18.957
If you're gonna buy lentils from costco, make soup for
00:17:18.957 --> 00:17:21.393
The neighborhood.
00:17:21.393 --> 00:17:22.728
If we're called to be like jesus, we're called to
00:17:22.728 --> 00:17:24.563
Be colanders.
00:17:24.563 --> 00:17:25.897
We're not called to just be recipients of grace.
00:17:25.897 --> 00:17:28.900
It should leak out of us.
00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:31.570
Kirk: lisa, i love this quote.
00:17:31.570 --> 00:17:34.339
"sometimes being shaped like jesus looks very much like a
00:17:34.339 --> 00:17:36.908
Soldier who moonlights as a medic."
00:17:36.908 --> 00:17:39.745
What does that mean?
00:17:39.745 --> 00:17:41.079
Lisa: yeah, well, you see all throughout scripture we're
00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:44.750
Warriors, but we're always supposed to tend those who
00:17:44.750 --> 00:17:48.053
Are bleeding.
00:17:48.053 --> 00:17:49.421
And so, i think in our culture, we tend to segregate leadership
00:17:49.421 --> 00:17:52.958
From compassion.
00:17:52.958 --> 00:17:54.293
And i'm like, no, the most compelling leaders are leaders
00:17:54.293 --> 00:17:58.230
Who will pause and help triage
00:17:58.230 --> 00:18:01.466
Those that are bleeding around them.
00:18:01.466 --> 00:18:02.801
You see that in the life of christ, you see that when, you
00:18:02.801 --> 00:18:06.471
Know, even with bartimaeus.
00:18:06.471 --> 00:18:07.806
He's headed to easter and he stops.
00:18:07.806 --> 00:18:11.109
One of my favorite phrases in the gospels is "and
00:18:11.109 --> 00:18:16.148
Jesus stopped."
00:18:16.148 --> 00:18:18.116
You know, he's a blind guy, he has no social standing.
00:18:18.116 --> 00:18:22.554
But when he cries out, "son of david, son of david, help me,"
00:18:22.554 --> 00:18:27.926
Jesus is on his way to easter, you could effectively say he put
00:18:27.926 --> 00:18:31.129
Easter on pause to stop and engage with this one man nobody
00:18:31.129 --> 00:18:35.400
Else would give the time of day to.
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:37.502
And, you know, he didn't just heal him, he heard him.
00:18:37.502 --> 00:18:41.006
Same with the woman who's bleeding.
00:18:41.006 --> 00:18:42.941
He's on his way to jairus's house.
00:18:42.941 --> 00:18:44.643
Jairus is a powerful political ruler because pharisees at that
00:18:44.643 --> 00:18:48.780
Time, of course, would be somebody who drove a bentley,
00:18:48.780 --> 00:18:51.083
Lived in a gated community.
00:18:51.083 --> 00:18:52.818
And jesus puts that healing on pause.
00:18:52.818 --> 00:18:55.520
He actually ups the ante 'cause he goes from not just healing
00:18:55.520 --> 00:18:58.790
Jairus's daughter but raising her from death back to life, but
00:18:58.790 --> 00:19:02.060
In the interim he stops with a woman who's already
00:19:02.060 --> 00:19:05.397
Physically healed.
00:19:05.397 --> 00:19:06.765
When she touched that tassel in the corner of his robe,
00:19:06.765 --> 00:19:09.434
The bleeding left her body.
00:19:09.434 --> 00:19:10.769
So, he could have just been like, "been there, done that,
00:19:10.769 --> 00:19:13.372
She's healed," you know, "y'all take care of her in community,"
00:19:13.372 --> 00:19:17.008
But he stops and says, "who touched me?"
00:19:17.008 --> 00:19:20.312
And then can you imagine she's been ostracized for 12 years?
00:19:20.312 --> 00:19:24.383
And jesus listens to her entire story.
00:19:24.383 --> 00:19:26.852
She's already physically healed, but he knows her heart has been
00:19:26.852 --> 00:19:31.323
Just wrecked by people, you know, backing up for her, she
00:19:31.323 --> 00:19:36.261
Can't be touched by a well hand.
00:19:36.261 --> 00:19:38.430
Jesus listens to the whole story.
00:19:38.430 --> 00:19:41.099
He listens to all of that, then calls her daughter, reconciles
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:45.170
Her into family in front of that whole crowd that ostracized her.
00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:48.807
Our savior is the king of all kings.
00:19:48.807 --> 00:19:51.543
He's got the biggest sword, but he always stops to engage with
00:19:51.543 --> 00:19:55.914
Those who are bleeding.
00:19:55.914 --> 00:19:57.249
Kirk: mmm, wow, that is so cool.
00:19:57.249 --> 00:20:00.685
You made me think about my grandfather, and i haven't
00:20:00.685 --> 00:20:02.854
Thought about him here in just a little bit because he passed
00:20:02.854 --> 00:20:05.757
Away about five years ago, but he was a soldier and a medic.
00:20:05.757 --> 00:20:08.760
For real.
00:20:08.760 --> 00:20:10.128
He was 17 years old, went into the navy as a medic and fought
00:20:10.128 --> 00:20:14.900
With the marines on the island of iwo jima.
00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:17.936
So, he was a soldier and he was a medic.
00:20:17.936 --> 00:20:21.039
So, they really do go hand in hand.
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.341
Lisa: i think if you're a christ follower, i think they have to
00:20:23.341 --> 00:20:26.912
Go hand in hand.
00:20:26.912 --> 00:20:28.747
Sometimes mine aren't as congruent as they should be
00:20:28.747 --> 00:20:32.784
Because sometimes y'all get real vocal and i wanna wave a placard
00:20:32.784 --> 00:20:36.888
About something, and i think if my heart doesn't break for what
00:20:36.888 --> 00:20:40.559
Breaks my creator redeemer's heart, then i've got to be
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.963
Careful about noise.
00:20:44.963 --> 00:20:46.498
Kirk: why does god, who is all-powerful and he is
00:20:46.498 --> 00:20:50.435
All-loving and he is all-knowing, why does he let
00:20:50.435 --> 00:20:55.974
Evil exist in the world?
00:20:55.974 --> 00:20:58.276
And you dive into this in your book.
00:20:58.276 --> 00:20:59.678
It's called theodicy.
00:20:59.678 --> 00:21:01.012
Lisa: theodicy, fancy word that basically means that god is
00:21:01.012 --> 00:21:07.986
Perfectly good, but there is evil.
00:21:07.986 --> 00:21:11.556
And that, you know, kind of ellipses between the goodness of
00:21:11.556 --> 00:21:16.695
God and the evil or the wickedness of this world we're
00:21:16.695 --> 00:21:20.432
In that we call home, that has flummoxed theologians since the
00:21:20.432 --> 00:21:25.203
Beginning of christianity, and no one has been able to give us
00:21:25.203 --> 00:21:28.807
Just a perky concise acrostic for why that happens.
00:21:28.807 --> 00:21:32.410
I always go back to job.
00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:34.312
And in job's story, the first time i studied job, i basically
00:21:34.312 --> 00:21:37.782
Told the lord i didn't wanna study job.
00:21:37.782 --> 00:21:39.150
I was like, this is gonna be like sticking my hand in
00:21:39.150 --> 00:21:40.752
A blender.
00:21:40.752 --> 00:21:42.087
I don't wanna study pain.
00:21:42.087 --> 00:21:43.688
But right there at the beginning of his story, he loses
00:21:43.688 --> 00:21:46.825
Everything, his health, wealth, most importantly, his children.
00:21:46.825 --> 00:21:50.262
And then his response is unbelievable.
00:21:50.262 --> 00:21:52.564
His response is he shaves his head, tears his clothes, signs
00:21:52.564 --> 00:21:56.101
Of real grief, so he wasn't filtering it.
00:21:56.101 --> 00:21:58.203
He wasn't pretending like he had it okay.
00:21:58.203 --> 00:22:00.272
He's saying, "i ache," then the exact same verse it says, "and
00:22:00.272 --> 00:22:04.643
He worshiped."
00:22:04.643 --> 00:22:06.011
So, you can have a broken heart and raised hands at the exact
00:22:06.011 --> 00:22:09.314
Same time if you believe,
00:22:09.314 --> 00:22:11.783
"i can't see around the corner of my circumstances, but i do
00:22:11.783 --> 00:22:14.819
Believe my god is good."
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:16.555
So, trusting that our god is good, it's easier for me now at
00:22:16.555 --> 00:22:20.458
61 because i can look back over 55 years of walking with god and
00:22:20.458 --> 00:22:25.830
I can see he's pulled me out of every pit i've dug myself.
00:22:25.830 --> 00:22:29.768
I've never seen his back, he's always been faithful.
00:22:29.768 --> 00:22:32.871
It's more difficult to trust his goodness when i'm looking ahead.
00:22:32.871 --> 00:22:36.508
So, to me, i've always got to have those deuteronomy moments
00:22:36.508 --> 00:22:38.944
When i look back and i see the ebenezers and the stones and go,
00:22:38.944 --> 00:22:42.480
"oh, he carried me through that one.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:43.982
Oh, he parted that red sea.
00:22:43.982 --> 00:22:45.450
Kirk: yeah, he's faithful.
00:22:45.450 --> 00:22:46.785
Lisa: but faith, there is an element of faith that it's trust
00:22:46.785 --> 00:22:49.721
In what we can't see.
00:22:49.721 --> 00:22:51.823
Kirk: yeah, yeah.
00:22:51.823 --> 00:22:53.158
Well, i'm so glad that you tackled that in this because
00:22:53.158 --> 00:22:54.926
That's something that many of us struggle with.
00:22:54.926 --> 00:22:57.796
You also say the bible is not a rule book or a collection of
00:22:57.796 --> 00:23:01.533
Morality tales.
00:23:01.533 --> 00:23:03.101
At its core, it's a divine love story.
00:23:03.101 --> 00:23:06.338
What do you mean by that?
00:23:06.338 --> 00:23:07.672
Lisa: i think you find the theme of redemption--again, we tend to
00:23:07.672 --> 00:23:11.109
Think of jesus as the great love and the one who drips grace, and
00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:16.681
We think of god the father, oftentimes, as a little more
00:23:16.681 --> 00:23:19.384
Austere, you know, with a--white hair and maybe a papal hat, but
00:23:19.384 --> 00:23:24.022
If you study scripture in the proper sociohistorical
00:23:24.022 --> 00:23:28.927
Context--song of solomon.
00:23:28.927 --> 00:23:30.495
I used to think i couldn't read song of solomon 'cause it's
00:23:30.495 --> 00:23:32.430
Kind of the divine version of the kama sutra.
00:23:32.430 --> 00:23:34.165
And i'm single, i can't say the song of solomon, it's all
00:23:34.165 --> 00:23:36.568
About marriage.
00:23:36.568 --> 00:23:38.003
But you go, no, at the end of luke's gospel, jesus says,
00:23:38.003 --> 00:23:40.772
"all of that is about me.
00:23:40.772 --> 00:23:42.874
All that points to me."
00:23:42.874 --> 00:23:44.209
And so, you see this bridegroom and a bride, and you see him
00:23:44.209 --> 00:23:48.179
Saying to her in the 4th chapter, "one glance of your
00:23:48.179 --> 00:23:51.549
Eyes, you captured my heart," and i go, "so jesus is the
00:23:51.549 --> 00:23:58.423
Ultimate bridegroom."
00:23:58.423 --> 00:24:00.225
He's not looking at me with his brows knit together in
00:24:00.225 --> 00:24:03.261
Frustration over yet another one of my foibles.
00:24:03.261 --> 00:24:06.264
Instead, he's saying, "in one glance, lisa, you captured
00:24:06.264 --> 00:24:09.300
My heart."
00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:10.635
That's the core of the gospel.
00:24:10.635 --> 00:24:12.003
That's not just a new testament thing.
00:24:12.003 --> 00:24:14.205
From the very beginning, we have this god who loved us, who
00:24:14.205 --> 00:24:17.409
Protected them in the wilderness, who provided for
00:24:17.409 --> 00:24:19.377
Them, who has always been, always been a
00:24:19.377 --> 00:24:23.548
Perfect bridegroom.
00:24:23.548 --> 00:24:25.150
So to me, if you see the canopy of this god who loves us over
00:24:25.150 --> 00:24:29.320
The rest of scripture, it starts to make sense.
00:24:29.320 --> 00:24:32.791
Kirk: so why should people buy this book?
00:24:32.791 --> 00:24:37.095
Lisa: i think especially for people who have questions, who
00:24:37.095 --> 00:24:40.231
Think christianity is an existential construct, there's
00:24:40.231 --> 00:24:42.967
No way you must be narrow-minded, you must need a
00:24:42.967 --> 00:24:47.972
Parameter to put your longing in, for thinkers to go, "oh,
00:24:47.972 --> 00:24:52.911
Wow, there's some really thoughtful people through the
00:24:52.911 --> 00:24:55.714
Centuries who are brilliant scientists, brilliant academics
00:24:55.714 --> 00:24:58.383
Who have found god to be true."
00:24:58.383 --> 00:25:00.885
And then for those of us who never quite feel like we're good
00:25:00.885 --> 00:25:03.621
Enough for god and we're always trying to do better, be better,
00:25:03.621 --> 00:25:06.691
To learn to actually lean more fully into the embrace of god
00:25:06.691 --> 00:25:11.296
Instead of just accruing information about god.
00:25:11.296 --> 00:25:13.965
I think it's for all kinds of people who want more intimacy
00:25:13.965 --> 00:25:18.103
With jesus.
00:25:18.103 --> 00:25:19.437
Kirk: thank you so much for writing, "a jesus shaped life."
00:25:19.437 --> 00:25:21.940
Lisa: thank you for having me on.
00:25:21.940 --> 00:25:23.274
Kirk: thanks for coming on "takeaways."
00:25:23.274 --> 00:25:24.642
When we come back, we'll be joined by mary wiley to discuss
00:25:24.642 --> 00:25:27.412
Ways that we can teach our children to better read and
00:25:27.412 --> 00:25:30.648
Understand the bible for themselves, so don't go away.
00:25:30.648 --> 00:25:33.218
♪♪♪
00:25:33.218 --> 00:25:37.622
♪♪♪
00:25:38.446 --> 00:25:42.483
Kirk: mary wiley, an author and bible teacher, is passionate
00:25:46.254 --> 00:25:49.890
About teaching women how to read their bibles and how to think
00:25:49.890 --> 00:25:53.027
About god.
00:25:53.027 --> 00:25:54.362
She holds an ma in theological studies, and she's back with us
00:25:54.362 --> 00:25:57.665
Again today, discussing how we can teach our children the
00:25:57.665 --> 00:26:01.302
Importance of spending time with god by helping them understand
00:26:01.302 --> 00:26:05.373
And read the bible better.
00:26:05.373 --> 00:26:07.408
Mary, i'm so glad that you're back.
00:26:07.408 --> 00:26:08.743
Mary: thanks for having me.
00:26:08.743 --> 00:26:10.111
Kirk: yeah, and i'm so excited about your brand-new book, and
00:26:10.111 --> 00:26:12.046
It's called, "discovering the bible," and it's all about a
00:26:12.046 --> 00:26:16.217
Kid's guide to reading and understanding god's word.
00:26:16.217 --> 00:26:18.753
Do you know why i'm excited about this?
00:26:18.753 --> 00:26:20.187
Because i have a granddaughter, and this is going
00:26:20.187 --> 00:26:22.690
On my library shelf as one of the first books in her little
00:26:22.690 --> 00:26:26.327
Library because i want her to understand the bible and love
00:26:26.327 --> 00:26:31.365
Jesus and live according to its precepts.
00:26:31.365 --> 00:26:34.735
Mary: i love that.
00:26:34.735 --> 00:26:36.070
You know, let her chew on it, let her flip through it.
00:26:36.070 --> 00:26:38.606
The first step of bible literacy is to chew on some books.
00:26:38.606 --> 00:26:41.842
Kirk: well, let's start with an obvious question.
00:26:41.842 --> 00:26:45.513
Why is it important for anybody to read the bible?
00:26:45.513 --> 00:26:49.450
Mary: yeah, so the bible is the revelation of god.
00:26:49.450 --> 00:26:52.019
It is where we meet with him.
00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:54.388
And so, often i think we approach the bible as if it's
00:26:54.388 --> 00:26:57.058
Just a helpful list of moral codes or a helpful guide to know
00:26:57.058 --> 00:27:01.629
How to live today, but it really is the vehicle for our
00:27:01.629 --> 00:27:06.367
Relationship with god.
00:27:06.367 --> 00:27:07.702
And so, to know the bible is to know god.
00:27:07.702 --> 00:27:11.038
And sometimes we don't do that well, so it could be very easy
00:27:11.038 --> 00:27:14.408
For us to create god in our own image and think he is like us,
00:27:14.408 --> 00:27:18.579
That he responds like us, he makes decisions like us if we
00:27:18.579 --> 00:27:22.249
Don't actually know the god who reveals himself in the bible.
00:27:22.249 --> 00:27:26.887
Kirk: so, i've got friends who love to read jordan peterson and
00:27:26.887 --> 00:27:30.825
His 11 rules or 10 rules, however many rules it is, or
00:27:30.825 --> 00:27:35.329
Maybe some other self-help book that will help people get in
00:27:35.329 --> 00:27:38.866
Shape or be healthier or have clearer mental health.
00:27:38.866 --> 00:27:41.936
Is the bible more than that?
00:27:41.936 --> 00:27:44.705
I mean, what if someone says, "hey, i like the way i think, i
00:27:44.705 --> 00:27:46.774
Like the way i look, i like the way my life is going"?
00:27:46.774 --> 00:27:51.112
What else does the bible have that's different than all that?
00:27:51.112 --> 00:27:53.781
Mary: i think you're touching on a question that many people ask,
00:27:53.781 --> 00:27:56.751
And that is: "why is the bible different than any other book
00:27:56.751 --> 00:28:00.554
That i would read?"
00:28:00.554 --> 00:28:02.022
And we know that the bible was divinely inspired, that it is
00:28:02.022 --> 00:28:05.826
God's word, and that it matters that god spoke through the
00:28:05.826 --> 00:28:09.630
Language of people, that he spoke through human instruments
00:28:09.630 --> 00:28:14.869
To provide this bible for us so that he might be made known.
00:28:14.869 --> 00:28:19.340
And it's not that we could become someone who knows god on
00:28:19.340 --> 00:28:23.477
Our own, but it is that he chose, to what theologians call,
00:28:23.477 --> 00:28:27.848
He chose to cross the creator-creature divide.
00:28:27.848 --> 00:28:32.119
So we couldn't know god because he is creator and we
00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:35.556
Are creature.
00:28:35.556 --> 00:28:36.924
And so, through christ we have him enter human life as a
00:28:36.924 --> 00:28:41.562
Person, god with flesh on, so that we might know him.
00:28:41.562 --> 00:28:44.331
And in john 1, the bible calls jesus the word of god, the
00:28:44.331 --> 00:28:48.836
Message of god.
00:28:48.836 --> 00:28:50.171
And so, the bible is alive and moving.
00:28:50.171 --> 00:28:52.706
It is not like a text that we would read for self-help because
00:28:52.706 --> 00:28:55.910
It transforms us through the work of the spirit from the
00:28:55.910 --> 00:28:58.145
Inside out.
00:28:58.145 --> 00:28:59.480
And so we wrote this, i wrote this, so that they could take it
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.483
Home and flip through and be excited about learning what the
00:29:02.483 --> 00:29:06.454
Bible says about them, about god, about how they can live
00:29:06.454 --> 00:29:09.890
Their life in a way that honors him.
00:29:09.890 --> 00:29:12.493
And so, what you hold in your hands is just the fruit of
00:29:12.493 --> 00:29:15.463
Everyday in and out work with kids in a local church setting
00:29:15.463 --> 00:29:19.099
And in my house as well with my three kids.
00:29:19.099 --> 00:29:22.102
Kirk: being a dad of six kids, i know it can be challenging to
00:29:22.102 --> 00:29:24.405
Get your kids to read the bible.
00:29:24.405 --> 00:29:26.440
What are some of the unique struggles or challenges kids
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.276
Have when they pick up a bible?
00:29:29.276 --> 00:29:31.345
Mary: sure.
00:29:31.345 --> 00:29:32.713
Well, most translations are on an 11th grade reading level, and
00:29:32.713 --> 00:29:35.816
So that's really challenging.
00:29:35.816 --> 00:29:37.184
I have two 3rd graders at home, and so there are a lot of words
00:29:37.184 --> 00:29:41.288
In the bible that they struggle through.
00:29:41.288 --> 00:29:43.724
The bible was written in the ancient near east, a very
00:29:43.724 --> 00:29:47.895
Different culture.
00:29:47.895 --> 00:29:49.964
And so, we're trying to both understand what the bible is
00:29:49.964 --> 00:29:53.701
Saying happened in a time that we don't have a lot of
00:29:53.701 --> 00:29:57.104
Understanding for, a very agricultural moment, where it's
00:29:57.104 --> 00:30:01.175
Like, my kids, they maybe planted something in our garden
00:30:01.175 --> 00:30:04.678
Last year, but that's about the extent of the farming community
00:30:04.678 --> 00:30:08.249
That they understand.
00:30:08.249 --> 00:30:09.850
And so, it is, really, just a difficult book for kids, but a
00:30:09.850 --> 00:30:15.556
Worthwhile book for kids because god will speak to them.
00:30:15.556 --> 00:30:19.894
So, i have seen kids pick up their bible and, god, really use
00:30:19.894 --> 00:30:24.064
It, even in a passage, that it is complicated.
00:30:24.064 --> 00:30:27.768
And we ask them to do really hard things at school.
00:30:27.768 --> 00:30:30.137
They come home with those math worksheets and i'm like, "your
00:30:30.137 --> 00:30:33.007
Mom does not know how to do these."
00:30:33.007 --> 00:30:35.409
And so, we ask them to do hard things at school because we know
00:30:35.409 --> 00:30:38.879
They're capable, and the bible is the same.
00:30:38.879 --> 00:30:41.782
It is a challenge, but they are more than capable, through the
00:30:41.782 --> 00:30:44.785
Power of the spirit, to understand what they're reading.
00:30:44.785 --> 00:30:47.955
Kirk: i think that's a really important point, and that you're
00:30:47.955 --> 00:30:50.424
Right, they are really capable of doing things.
00:30:50.424 --> 00:30:53.360
I have kids that can do things far more complicated than i
00:30:53.360 --> 00:31:00.601
Understand, and i have no idea how they do it, but their little
00:31:00.601 --> 00:31:04.872
Minds are made in such a way that they can do phenomenal
00:31:04.872 --> 00:31:10.344
Things, even study the bible.
00:31:10.344 --> 00:31:12.179
And with a help like this, i love all the pictures and the
00:31:12.179 --> 00:31:15.282
Charts and all of the colors and all of the different diagrams.
00:31:15.282 --> 00:31:19.486
You've got kids learning the genres of the books from the
00:31:19.486 --> 00:31:23.123
History books to the poetry books and ways to memorize it.
00:31:23.123 --> 00:31:26.961
It's absolutely fantastic.
00:31:26.961 --> 00:31:29.029
Mary: thank you.
00:31:29.029 --> 00:31:30.397
And we hope that kids will be different because of the way
00:31:30.397 --> 00:31:33.067
That they interact with the bible.
00:31:33.067 --> 00:31:34.802
So when i was a kid, i grew up in the church every week, had
00:31:34.802 --> 00:31:38.906
Wonderful teachers, but so much of what i was taught was, okay,
00:31:38.906 --> 00:31:42.409
How do you become like david?
00:31:42.409 --> 00:31:44.945
How can you be strong like samson?
00:31:44.945 --> 00:31:47.548
And now, reading back through the bible, i believe that that
00:31:47.548 --> 00:31:52.052
Can be helpful.
00:31:52.052 --> 00:31:53.420
We can learn from character studies.
00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:55.356
But what the bible is all about is teaching us who god is
00:31:55.356 --> 00:31:58.993
Through the person of jesus.
00:31:58.993 --> 00:32:00.628
And so, to help kids say, well, it's not just about changing
00:32:00.628 --> 00:32:04.331
Your behavior, because you can change your behavior without the
00:32:04.331 --> 00:32:08.268
Work of the spirit in your life if you just try hard enough.
00:32:08.268 --> 00:32:11.105
You might burn out in a couple of months, it's not gonna be
00:32:11.105 --> 00:32:13.707
Easy, but if you try hard enough, you can check the boxes.
00:32:13.707 --> 00:32:18.178
We see this in the early days of the giving of scripture, right?
00:32:18.178 --> 00:32:22.349
We see it in the pharisees, even, as they talk with jesus.
00:32:22.349 --> 00:32:25.653
They're putting fences around fences so that they, in their
00:32:25.653 --> 00:32:28.555
Flesh, can keep the instruction of god.
00:32:28.555 --> 00:32:31.592
And so, i want kids to see the bible is a beautiful gift to
00:32:31.592 --> 00:32:35.429
Them, that this is not just a list of do's and don'ts to apply
00:32:35.429 --> 00:32:39.867
To the framework that already exists in their life.
00:32:39.867 --> 00:32:42.436
It is a path to true abundant life, that god created them, and
00:32:42.436 --> 00:32:47.341
So he knows how they work best.
00:32:47.341 --> 00:32:49.410
And because of that, he gives us instruction that is not for our
00:32:49.410 --> 00:32:53.914
Oppression or for us to approach as duty, but it is so that we
00:32:53.914 --> 00:32:57.951
Might have life and have it abundant and in him.
00:32:57.951 --> 00:33:01.989
Kirk: what ages is, "discovering the bible," written for?
00:33:01.989 --> 00:33:04.525
Mary: so if you were gonna walk through this alongside your kid
00:33:04.525 --> 00:33:08.095
As a parent, you could start as early as kindergarten, as
00:33:08.095 --> 00:33:11.365
They're beginning to read.
00:33:11.365 --> 00:33:13.233
So, it is a helpful companion whenever you give a child their
00:33:13.233 --> 00:33:16.704
First full-text bible, which is normally kindergarten,
00:33:16.704 --> 00:33:20.207
1st grade.
00:33:20.207 --> 00:33:21.575
They kind of transition out of storybook bibles and into
00:33:21.575 --> 00:33:25.012
Having, you know, the big kid bible like their mom and dad.
00:33:25.012 --> 00:33:28.348
And so if they're gonna read it on their own, i have 2nd
00:33:28.348 --> 00:33:31.585
Graders, 3rd graders, 4th graders who use this.
00:33:31.585 --> 00:33:34.321
I actually had an adult last week tell me, "i pick up this
00:33:34.321 --> 00:33:37.124
Book every single day during the course of my workday."
00:33:37.124 --> 00:33:39.960
They work on a team, working on curriculum, working on books,
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:45.032
And they said, "i double-check that i know what i'm talking
00:33:45.032 --> 00:33:47.668
About every day by picking this up."
00:33:47.668 --> 00:33:50.003
And i've had a couple also say, "i'm excited to use the kids's
00:33:50.003 --> 00:33:53.140
Reading plan that reads through the bible in a year," because
00:33:53.140 --> 00:33:56.744
Parents can do it with their kids.
00:33:56.744 --> 00:33:59.413
Kirk: why is it important that children who are young begin to
00:33:59.413 --> 00:34:03.450
Read the bible?
00:34:03.450 --> 00:34:04.785
Why not just wait till high school?
00:34:04.785 --> 00:34:06.153
Mary: great question, and i think we see this pattern in a
00:34:06.153 --> 00:34:09.656
Lot of families and a lot of, even, churchgoers who say,
00:34:09.656 --> 00:34:13.393
"children's ministry is really where childcare happens, and
00:34:13.393 --> 00:34:17.397
Then in youth ministry we'll disciple our kids."
00:34:17.397 --> 00:34:19.900
But barna studies prove over and over and over again that about
00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:23.170
80% of people will choose to follow christ before they're 12
00:34:23.170 --> 00:34:26.940
Years old.
00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:28.275
So we're talking, what, 5th grade-ish?
00:34:28.275 --> 00:34:30.477
And so, we wanna help them build the foundations.
00:34:30.477 --> 00:34:35.415
I used to be really sad that i didn't have a really compelling
00:34:35.415 --> 00:34:38.552
Testimony, that i wasn't lost in drugs and alcohol addiction
00:34:38.552 --> 00:34:42.990
Prior to coming to christ.
00:34:42.990 --> 00:34:44.358
But today, i know that, first of all, any salvation is miraculous
00:34:44.358 --> 00:34:49.196
And only through the work of god.
00:34:49.196 --> 00:34:50.531
It is a process of being taken from death to life.
00:34:50.531 --> 00:34:55.803
But i also look back on my childhood and say, "praise the
00:34:55.803 --> 00:34:58.705
Lord i didn't have to walk through that to know jesus,"
00:34:58.705 --> 00:35:01.508
Because i had parents who loved him already.
00:35:01.508 --> 00:35:04.812
The times i caught my mom with her bible open in the morning,
00:35:04.812 --> 00:35:08.615
I'm getting ready for school and i walked towards the door and
00:35:08.615 --> 00:35:11.485
She's sitting in a chair with her bible open, were instructive
00:35:11.485 --> 00:35:14.721
To me.
00:35:14.721 --> 00:35:16.089
And so, the building blocks of our lives are created and built
00:35:16.089 --> 00:35:19.493
During childhood.
00:35:19.493 --> 00:35:20.828
We see this also in the traumas that people carry, right?
00:35:20.828 --> 00:35:23.797
The things that happen in childhood, you carry those all
00:35:23.797 --> 00:35:26.834
The way through your life.
00:35:26.834 --> 00:35:28.168
And so, what better opportunity to build on something that
00:35:28.168 --> 00:35:32.039
Lasts, something that is stable in a world that is constantly
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:36.310
Changing, constantly unstable, to build their life on the rock
00:35:36.310 --> 00:35:39.646
That is christ?
00:35:39.646 --> 00:35:40.981
Kirk: i want to talk more.
00:35:40.981 --> 00:35:42.349
I've got so many more questions for mary about how to motivate
00:35:42.349 --> 00:35:45.786
Our children to explore the bible on their own.
00:35:45.786 --> 00:35:48.589
We'll be right back, so don't go away.
00:35:48.589 --> 00:35:50.290
♪♪♪
00:35:50.290 --> 00:35:54.728
♪♪♪
00:35:55.174 --> 00:35:59.311
Kirk: we're back with author and bible teacher mary wiley.
00:36:02.948 --> 00:36:06.285
Mary, we're talking about your book, "discovering the bible."
00:36:06.285 --> 00:36:08.654
I'm so excited about this, particularly for my
00:36:08.654 --> 00:36:11.156
Granddaughter, who we want to get into the bible at an
00:36:11.156 --> 00:36:13.959
Early age.
00:36:13.959 --> 00:36:15.327
And i'm gonna start reviewing this so that i can be really
00:36:15.327 --> 00:36:17.997
Effective in helping her to learn to love the bible.
00:36:17.997 --> 00:36:22.234
Where do most kids today get
00:36:22.234 --> 00:36:24.303
Their knowledge about the bible?
00:36:24.303 --> 00:36:26.839
Mary: yeah, so if they're not in a local church receiving
00:36:26.839 --> 00:36:30.309
Instruction weekly on what the bible says, the likelihood is
00:36:30.309 --> 00:36:33.545
That they're probably just hearing their friends talk about
00:36:33.545 --> 00:36:35.614
It at school or they're hearing how their parents think and talk
00:36:35.614 --> 00:36:40.352
About the bible, or, in many cases, kids are not hearing
00:36:40.352 --> 00:36:43.956
About the bible at all if they don't have friends who are
00:36:43.956 --> 00:36:47.226
Telling them at school.
00:36:47.226 --> 00:36:48.594
So, that's something that we hope for, "discovering the
00:36:48.594 --> 00:36:50.729
Bible," that i've seen in the class i teach in my local church
00:36:50.729 --> 00:36:53.866
Through this content, is we're seeing kids tell their friends.
00:36:53.866 --> 00:36:56.769
They're so excited about the god that they serve, about knowing
00:36:56.769 --> 00:37:00.072
And loving him, that they'll go to school and give the hope of
00:37:00.072 --> 00:37:04.143
The gospel to other kids in their class who might not be
00:37:04.143 --> 00:37:07.646
Hearing about it at home.
00:37:07.646 --> 00:37:09.148
Kirk: you know, where i hear kids hearing about the bible is
00:37:09.148 --> 00:37:14.353
On the internet, social media, and they're hearing about the
00:37:14.353 --> 00:37:16.789
Bible in a really negative context.
00:37:16.789 --> 00:37:18.357
They're hearing things like, "well, the bible is not true.
00:37:18.357 --> 00:37:20.592
Well, the bible is a book of fairy tales and tons
00:37:20.592 --> 00:37:22.628
Of contradictions."
00:37:22.628 --> 00:37:23.996
And if you were to ask siri what she thinks of the bible, or go
00:37:23.996 --> 00:37:27.066
Ask alexa if the bible is true, you're gonna get confused by all
00:37:27.066 --> 00:37:31.970
The differing opinions, and you've got--you know, ai has
00:37:31.970 --> 00:37:35.607
Gone woke, and so the greatest mind that we have, reading all
00:37:35.607 --> 00:37:41.046
The books in an instant, will give your kids a confusing
00:37:41.046 --> 00:37:44.450
Message, and that's why we need parents to teach kids, and
00:37:44.450 --> 00:37:49.521
Grandparents, to know the bible and to love the bible.
00:37:49.521 --> 00:37:54.059
Mary, how have you used this to teach the kids at your
00:37:54.059 --> 00:37:59.431
Sunday school?
00:37:59.431 --> 00:38:00.766
Specifically, do you do one chapter a week?
00:38:00.766 --> 00:38:03.669
Do you work through the chapters and give them homework?
00:38:03.669 --> 00:38:05.671
Or like, how does it work?
00:38:05.671 --> 00:38:07.005
Mary: yeah, so we follow the same really simple structure
00:38:07.005 --> 00:38:10.042
Every week.
00:38:10.042 --> 00:38:11.410
So we begin by praying, asking god to help us understand.
00:38:11.410 --> 00:38:15.547
And this is a pattern that anyone can implement in their
00:38:15.547 --> 00:38:18.150
Daily reading.
00:38:18.150 --> 00:38:19.518
So we pray, and if you forget to pray, you better believe 2nd
00:38:19.518 --> 00:38:23.222
Graders will remind you that we do not start
00:38:23.222 --> 00:38:26.191
Until we pray and ask god to help us--
00:38:26.191 --> 00:38:27.526
Kirk: they love routines.
00:38:27.526 --> 00:38:29.061
Mary: that's right, help us understand.
00:38:29.061 --> 00:38:31.363
And so, second, we read and then we reread.
00:38:31.363 --> 00:38:35.100
So, often i love to have the kids read the first time.
00:38:35.100 --> 00:38:40.005
If the bible is on an 11th grade reading level, there are gonna
00:38:40.005 --> 00:38:42.674
Be some starts and stops.
00:38:42.674 --> 00:38:44.042
It's not always the most fluid reading experience.
00:38:44.042 --> 00:38:47.646
And so, i go behind them and read the same passage so we make
00:38:47.646 --> 00:38:52.151
Sure that we understand through reading and rereading.
00:38:52.151 --> 00:38:55.587
And then we ask and we answer.
00:38:55.587 --> 00:38:57.689
So, what i love to do for kids is to give them the freedom
00:38:57.689 --> 00:39:01.426
To ask any question that they are curious about.
00:39:01.426 --> 00:39:04.930
And that really is what god allows us to do as his children.
00:39:04.930 --> 00:39:08.300
"come," jesus says, "come to me as children.
00:39:08.300 --> 00:39:10.836
Be curious, ask questions."
00:39:10.836 --> 00:39:13.572
So i was in college and a campus minister, i was assigned to his
00:39:13.572 --> 00:39:18.510
Discipleship group, and i entered the room and he assigns
00:39:18.510 --> 00:39:22.948
Us three verses and says, "don't come back in here next week
00:39:22.948 --> 00:39:27.152
Until you have asked 50 questions about these
00:39:27.152 --> 00:39:29.855
Three verses."
00:39:29.855 --> 00:39:31.223
Now, 18-year-old mary rolled her eyes because i was like, "that
00:39:31.223 --> 00:39:34.793
Is not possible, there are not 50 questions--"
00:39:34.793 --> 00:39:36.562
Kirk: my daughter anna would have asked questions like,
00:39:36.562 --> 00:39:37.996
"what color shoes was she wearing?"
00:39:37.996 --> 00:39:39.331
Mary: that's right.
00:39:39.331 --> 00:39:41.200
Now, they all had to be about the text.
00:39:41.200 --> 00:39:43.869
And when we came back, no one's questions were the same.
00:39:43.869 --> 00:39:47.539
And so, what that taught me is that there were way more than 50
00:39:47.539 --> 00:39:50.642
Questions that could have been asked, but often, as christians,
00:39:50.642 --> 00:39:54.546
We think we should already know the answers.
00:39:54.546 --> 00:39:57.115
And so, we don't ask the questions we have.
00:39:57.115 --> 00:40:00.219
And when i do this exercise with kids on sunday, the first three
00:40:00.219 --> 00:40:03.322
To five questions are gonna be, "who was talking?", "why did
00:40:03.322 --> 00:40:07.559
They say say this?", "who's a pharisee?", "who's jesus
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:11.230
Ministering to right now?", "what's moses doing on
00:40:11.230 --> 00:40:13.966
A mountain?"
00:40:13.966 --> 00:40:15.334
Really, comprehension questions.
00:40:15.334 --> 00:40:16.868
Kirk: little kids are asking these questions?
00:40:16.868 --> 00:40:18.203
Mary: oh, yes. kirk: that's great.
00:40:18.203 --> 00:40:19.538
Mary: and then the next step is they begin to ask those
00:40:19.538 --> 00:40:22.274
Deeper questions.
00:40:22.274 --> 00:40:23.609
Kirk: so, what you're really doing is encouraging kids not
00:40:23.609 --> 00:40:26.845
Just to--to just read through the bible like you're on a
00:40:26.845 --> 00:40:32.184
High-speed motorcycle, just like cruising through a drive-by, but
00:40:32.184 --> 00:40:35.887
To study it, to soak it up.
00:40:35.887 --> 00:40:38.824
How do you impress upon them that this is something you can
00:40:38.824 --> 00:40:41.960
And should, and i hope you love to do, by yourself?
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:44.997
Mary: that's right, i really do believe that when they get into
00:40:44.997 --> 00:40:49.067
The scriptures and they see the way that it can transform their
00:40:49.067 --> 00:40:51.803
Hearts and their minds and their lives that they will begin to
00:40:51.803 --> 00:40:54.806
Love it.
00:40:54.806 --> 00:40:56.141
So recently, my son was walking through a hard week, and i was
00:40:56.141 --> 00:40:59.511
Trying to encourage him, and it was not working.
00:40:59.511 --> 00:41:02.047
And he--big tears in his eyes and he just looked at me, and i
00:41:02.047 --> 00:41:04.616
Was like, "i am at the end of my parenting rope.
00:41:04.616 --> 00:41:06.752
I do not know what to do next."
00:41:06.752 --> 00:41:08.553
And he looked at me and said, "mom, what i think i really need
00:41:08.553 --> 00:41:10.622
Is i need you to show me in the bible where the armor of
00:41:10.622 --> 00:41:13.292
God is."
00:41:13.292 --> 00:41:14.626
And so i get my bible out and he said, "can i use your bible?
00:41:14.626 --> 00:41:17.696
I'm gonna copy these onto note cards."
00:41:17.696 --> 00:41:20.032
And so he copied every verse on a note card.
00:41:20.032 --> 00:41:22.034
He drew a little picture of what piece of armor was mentioned,
00:41:22.034 --> 00:41:26.738
And he put them in a binder clip and he carried them with him to
00:41:26.738 --> 00:41:29.508
School for weeks.
00:41:29.508 --> 00:41:31.677
Kirk: were kids picking on him, or why did he want to know about
00:41:31.677 --> 00:41:33.845
The armor of the lord?
00:41:33.845 --> 00:41:35.180
Mary: yeah, he had had a really hard day just being--with worry.
00:41:35.180 --> 00:41:38.817
And he was like, "you know what?
00:41:38.817 --> 00:41:40.819
I know where to take my worry.
00:41:40.819 --> 00:41:42.888
When i'm worried, i take it to god and god is the one who can
00:41:42.888 --> 00:41:45.824
Protect my heart with his armor.
00:41:45.824 --> 00:41:47.359
God is the one who can make my feet ready for him."
00:41:47.359 --> 00:41:50.829
And i was like, "this is not my parenting, this is a prompting
00:41:50.829 --> 00:41:53.932
Of the spirit."
00:41:53.932 --> 00:41:55.267
And that is what begins to take shape.
00:41:55.267 --> 00:41:57.736
Now, i did bible drill, which was like old school.
00:41:57.736 --> 00:42:01.173
When i was a child, you memorize a bunch of verses, and i did not
00:42:01.173 --> 00:42:06.778
Participate in bible drill to hide god's word in my heart.
00:42:06.778 --> 00:42:09.414
I participated in bible drill to beat my
00:42:09.414 --> 00:42:11.450
Friends and to be the best.
00:42:11.450 --> 00:42:12.784
I have a little bit of an achievement streak in me and i
00:42:12.784 --> 00:42:15.087
Like to win.
00:42:15.087 --> 00:42:16.421
And what i know is true today is that, despite the motivation for
00:42:16.421 --> 00:42:20.792
Learning those verses, god brings them to mind even this
00:42:20.792 --> 00:42:25.230
Day when i need them.
00:42:25.230 --> 00:42:26.898
And so, as we seek to guide kids, they will find that true
00:42:26.898 --> 00:42:31.169
Peace, true comfort, help when you're worried, really does come
00:42:31.169 --> 00:42:36.208
From the word of god because he meets us there.
00:42:36.208 --> 00:42:40.078
Kirk: what is it that makes parents uneasy about teaching
00:42:40.078 --> 00:42:43.415
Their kids the bible?
00:42:43.415 --> 00:42:45.016
Mary: yeah, they feel like they don't know enough.
00:42:45.016 --> 00:42:46.785
They're not far enough in their journey.
00:42:46.785 --> 00:42:48.987
And i've heard this from parents who started following jesus six
00:42:48.987 --> 00:42:52.257
Months ago, i've heard it from parents who've been following
00:42:52.257 --> 00:42:55.093
Jesus since they were 12 years old.
00:42:55.093 --> 00:42:57.462
They feel unqualified and ill equipped.
00:42:57.462 --> 00:43:00.365
And so, my encouragement to those parents would be just
00:43:00.365 --> 00:43:03.535
Teach what you know.
00:43:03.535 --> 00:43:04.970
The work of discipleship is not a work of explaining everything
00:43:04.970 --> 00:43:08.974
That could be true about the bible.
00:43:08.974 --> 00:43:10.842
The work of discipleship is teaching someone today what you
00:43:10.842 --> 00:43:14.212
Learned yesterday.
00:43:14.212 --> 00:43:15.680
It is a daily walk.
00:43:15.680 --> 00:43:17.249
And so, yes, parents need to be in the bible to know god, to
00:43:17.249 --> 00:43:21.586
Know his word, and to help teach it to their kids, but you don't
00:43:21.586 --> 00:43:25.190
Have to be an expert.
00:43:25.190 --> 00:43:26.625
No one is quizzing you.
00:43:26.625 --> 00:43:29.161
Again, what was most formative for me was not that my mom could
00:43:29.161 --> 00:43:31.997
Answer my questions.
00:43:31.997 --> 00:43:33.598
It was that i saw her seeking god.
00:43:33.598 --> 00:43:37.002
And kids are resilient.
00:43:37.002 --> 00:43:38.637
They can deal with us not knowing the answer, but they
00:43:38.637 --> 00:43:41.440
Also are very observant, and they will know what a
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:44.543
Parent values.
00:43:44.543 --> 00:43:46.445
And so if they walk in the room and you are valuing god's word,
00:43:46.445 --> 00:43:49.748
They will learn to value it as well.
00:43:49.748 --> 00:43:52.050
If you take them to church every sunday, but you never talk about
00:43:52.050 --> 00:43:55.554
The bible, you never say that it's important in your life,
00:43:55.554 --> 00:43:59.791
They'll sniff that out as well and know that the bible's
00:43:59.791 --> 00:44:03.094
Probably something we just do on sundays.
00:44:03.094 --> 00:44:05.163
That maybe it's not something that is a gift to us for every
00:44:05.163 --> 00:44:09.334
Day of our lives.
00:44:09.334 --> 00:44:10.669
And so, the way that parents model the text, model reading
00:44:10.669 --> 00:44:14.406
The bible, really does matter.
00:44:14.406 --> 00:44:16.575
Kirk: mary, i had a really cool experience recently with one of
00:44:16.575 --> 00:44:19.644
My kids, and because i was reading through a particular
00:44:19.644 --> 00:44:26.485
Book in the bible, i had some stories like the beheading of
00:44:26.485 --> 00:44:30.789
John the baptist and some other stories that were fresh in
00:44:30.789 --> 00:44:35.160
My mind.
00:44:35.160 --> 00:44:36.528
And so when he was struggling with something, or asking
00:44:36.528 --> 00:44:38.530
Questions, i was able to sort of relate some of the principles
00:44:38.530 --> 00:44:42.901
From what i was reading to my son.
00:44:42.901 --> 00:44:45.937
And one of the other things i thought was so interesting about
00:44:45.937 --> 00:44:49.207
Reading the bible myself, which then gives me more confidence to
00:44:49.207 --> 00:44:51.843
Teach my kids about the bible, or the stories in the bible, is
00:44:51.843 --> 00:44:55.647
That god will also give you an opportunity to live out those
00:44:55.647 --> 00:44:58.884
Principles yourself that you're reading.
00:44:58.884 --> 00:45:00.919
So not just the modeling of reading the scriptures because,
00:45:00.919 --> 00:45:04.723
I mean, right, there's actually an inherent danger in doing
00:45:04.723 --> 00:45:07.325
That too.
00:45:07.325 --> 00:45:08.660
If i'm a parent who reads the scriptures all the time, but i'm
00:45:08.660 --> 00:45:12.030
Also yelling at my wife, i'm critical of my kids, and there's
00:45:12.030 --> 00:45:17.335
No joy in me, i'm actually teaching my kids to be a
00:45:17.335 --> 00:45:20.238
Religious hypocrite.
00:45:20.238 --> 00:45:21.606
So the challenge to me has been, read this, they were--they know
00:45:21.606 --> 00:45:25.677
I'm reading this, and now i better live it out so that i
00:45:25.677 --> 00:45:29.014
Have integrity and consistency with my kids.
00:45:29.014 --> 00:45:31.550
And then we had some cool talks around a campfire about
00:45:31.550 --> 00:45:35.120
Relational issues that were really important.
00:45:35.120 --> 00:45:38.123
And at the end of the whole thing, you know, he gave me a
00:45:38.123 --> 00:45:40.759
Great big hug and said that, you know, that really means more to
00:45:40.759 --> 00:45:44.896
Me than you know.
00:45:44.896 --> 00:45:46.231
And i wasn't looking for the teaching moment, but because i'm
00:45:46.231 --> 00:45:49.367
Just trying to be an example of what i'd like my kids to learn,
00:45:49.367 --> 00:45:54.806
Then god can use that, and i feel more comfortable talking
00:45:54.806 --> 00:45:58.643
About the bible.
00:45:58.643 --> 00:45:59.978
Mary: that's right.
00:45:59.978 --> 00:46:01.346
I find that in car rides is often when we're talking about
00:46:01.346 --> 00:46:03.882
The things of the lord.
00:46:03.882 --> 00:46:05.250
Questions come up and we're able to discuss those things, just
00:46:05.250 --> 00:46:08.286
Like you did with your son.
00:46:08.286 --> 00:46:09.654
And so, what is really important, and you touched on
00:46:09.654 --> 00:46:12.924
This so much here, is that reading the bible, loving god,
00:46:12.924 --> 00:46:16.628
Being molded by the spirit through the words is not just an
00:46:16.628 --> 00:46:21.600
Intellectual ascent.
00:46:21.600 --> 00:46:23.468
It's not something that we can just think about with our minds.
00:46:23.468 --> 00:46:27.238
Actually, in the ancient near east, the concept of american
00:46:27.238 --> 00:46:30.008
Belief, western ideas of belief of like, i believe that that's
00:46:30.008 --> 00:46:34.713
True with my brain, it didn't even exist.
00:46:34.713 --> 00:46:37.749
So for an ancient near eastern person to say that they believe
00:46:37.749 --> 00:46:41.720
Something, it would mean that they were staking their lives
00:46:41.720 --> 00:46:44.155
On it.
00:46:44.155 --> 00:46:45.523
So we can't just become people who know a lot about god.
00:46:45.523 --> 00:46:49.661
We have to become people who actually know god and are molded
00:46:49.661 --> 00:46:53.865
By him so that he might bring up his word in a conversation with
00:46:53.865 --> 00:46:58.003
Another, so that he might encourage our hearts with what
00:46:58.003 --> 00:47:01.139
He has to say in his word.
00:47:01.139 --> 00:47:02.574
He might prompt us to tell the person at the grocery store
00:47:02.574 --> 00:47:06.277
About him.
00:47:06.277 --> 00:47:07.646
It is walking in step with the spirit by reading his word, by
00:47:07.646 --> 00:47:11.383
Learning about him, that we grow.
00:47:11.383 --> 00:47:14.552
And i think about my husband.
00:47:14.552 --> 00:47:15.920
If i said, "hey, i love you, but i don't wanna know anything
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:18.990
About you.
00:47:18.990 --> 00:47:20.358
I don't wanna know your favorite movie, i don't want to know what
00:47:20.358 --> 00:47:22.193
Sports team you like or cheering for every weekend.
00:47:22.193 --> 00:47:25.630
I love you, but we're good to just like not know much about
00:47:25.630 --> 00:47:29.968
Each other," well, that would not be love.
00:47:29.968 --> 00:47:32.637
I think a lot of times people approach the bible like that.
00:47:32.637 --> 00:47:35.707
"hey, i love god.
00:47:35.707 --> 00:47:37.042
I don't actually want to know anything about him.
00:47:37.042 --> 00:47:40.078
I don't wanna know and be in a relationship with him."
00:47:40.078 --> 00:47:43.348
And the bible is where we build that, where we have that
00:47:43.348 --> 00:47:46.584
Conversation, where we learn the things of god, the intentions of
00:47:46.584 --> 00:47:50.255
God for both the world and for our own lives.
00:47:50.255 --> 00:47:53.925
Kirk: what resources are in, "discovering the bible," to help
00:47:53.925 --> 00:47:56.728
Parents have their kids fall in love with it?
00:47:56.728 --> 00:47:59.431
Mary: yes, so there are daily reading plans in the back of the
00:47:59.431 --> 00:48:03.835
Book that can be completed in a year, in two years, in
00:48:03.835 --> 00:48:07.305
Three years.
00:48:07.305 --> 00:48:08.640
So, you choose your own pace.
00:48:08.640 --> 00:48:11.342
There is a 52-week schedule.
00:48:11.342 --> 00:48:14.179
So, if you are having a devotional with your family once
00:48:14.179 --> 00:48:17.415
A week, you could walk through the bible, the important
00:48:17.415 --> 00:48:20.318
Stories, the highlights, in so many ways, of the bible.
00:48:20.318 --> 00:48:24.689
And in each teaching, there is a passage of scripture to walk
00:48:24.689 --> 00:48:29.294
Through that same pray, read and reread, ask and answer, read,
00:48:29.294 --> 00:48:33.998
That same process.
00:48:33.998 --> 00:48:35.533
There are 104 memory verses as well.
00:48:35.533 --> 00:48:37.769
So if you wanted to say, "hey, we're gonna memorize a verse a
00:48:37.769 --> 00:48:40.538
Week," it'll take you two years to memorize them all.
00:48:40.538 --> 00:48:43.274
You could do two a week.
00:48:43.274 --> 00:48:44.609
And so, there are a million different ways you might
00:48:44.609 --> 00:48:47.078
Implement this in your family rhythms, but we hope that we've
00:48:47.078 --> 00:48:50.749
Given you all of the tools that you need to feel equipped.
00:48:50.749 --> 00:48:55.286
Kirk: this is great. i love this.
00:48:55.286 --> 00:48:57.155
So, if you're somebody who's looking for some help with
00:48:57.155 --> 00:49:00.391
Structure and some plans and timelines for how to get through
00:49:00.391 --> 00:49:06.231
The bible with your kids, this is great.
00:49:06.231 --> 00:49:08.133
And if you're someone who really wants diagrams and pictures and
00:49:08.133 --> 00:49:10.668
Colors and fun, it's got that in there too.
00:49:10.668 --> 00:49:14.105
So, thanks, mary, so much for writing this and for giving us
00:49:14.105 --> 00:49:17.342
Such a great tool for our parenting toolboxes.
00:49:17.342 --> 00:49:20.612
Mary: thank you.
00:49:20.612 --> 00:49:21.980
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's takeaways from
00:49:21.980 --> 00:49:24.249
Our conversations with lisa harper and mary wiley.
00:49:24.249 --> 00:49:27.018
♪♪♪
00:49:27.018 --> 00:49:31.389
♪♪♪
00:49:31.391 --> 00:49:35.562
Kirk: what a great time today talking with lisa harper and
00:49:38.631 --> 00:49:41.701
Mary wiley about practical strategies for forming our
00:49:41.701 --> 00:49:45.205
Theology and bible study.
00:49:45.205 --> 00:49:48.174
Theology is meant to be lived.
00:49:48.174 --> 00:49:50.710
What a great takeaway from lisa, and a theme for today's
00:49:50.710 --> 00:49:54.547
Entire episode.
00:49:54.547 --> 00:49:55.882
Theology, as lisa said, is more about relationship with jesus
00:49:55.882 --> 00:49:59.719
Than simply accruing information.
00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:02.822
We're all theologians, we all have beliefs about god.
00:50:02.822 --> 00:50:06.359
But where we get our information matters.
00:50:06.359 --> 00:50:09.262
Lisa shared that diving deep into scripture to form her
00:50:09.262 --> 00:50:12.999
Beliefs about god has caused her to lean on him even more, as its
00:50:12.999 --> 00:50:18.004
Pages reveal what god tells us about himself, that he's good
00:50:18.004 --> 00:50:23.309
And he can be trusted.
00:50:23.309 --> 00:50:25.211
So, let your personal study of god's word be not just a
00:50:25.211 --> 00:50:28.882
Religious activity or fact-finding mission, but a
00:50:28.882 --> 00:50:32.752
Pursuit to have a relationship with god and be changed by
00:50:32.752 --> 00:50:36.990
His words.
00:50:36.990 --> 00:50:38.358
Like lisa said, bring both your head and your heart to the table
00:50:38.358 --> 00:50:41.995
When you come to meet with jesus.
00:50:41.995 --> 00:50:44.531
A soldier and a medic.
00:50:44.531 --> 00:50:46.933
Lisa also reminded us that being shaped by jesus often means
00:50:46.933 --> 00:50:51.704
Becoming a soldier and a medic.
00:50:51.704 --> 00:50:54.674
Several times in the new testament, we see jesus stopping
00:50:54.674 --> 00:50:57.744
In the middle of his work.
00:50:57.744 --> 00:50:59.112
He healed people and he listened to their stories.
00:50:59.112 --> 00:51:03.149
Lisa said, "like jesus, we shouldn't separate leadership
00:51:03.149 --> 00:51:07.720
From compassion."
00:51:07.720 --> 00:51:09.355
She said the most compelling leaders are those who will pause
00:51:09.355 --> 00:51:12.759
And help triage those who are bleeding.
00:51:12.759 --> 00:51:16.296
So think, in all of your daily work and in your leadership, how
00:51:16.296 --> 00:51:20.633
Can you intentionally pause and take care of those who are yours
00:51:20.633 --> 00:51:25.605
To help?
00:51:25.605 --> 00:51:27.273
Build the foundation.
00:51:27.273 --> 00:51:29.075
I loved this reminder from mary wiley.
00:51:29.075 --> 00:51:31.711
The spiritual foundations of our children's lives are
00:51:31.711 --> 00:51:35.548
Formed early.
00:51:35.548 --> 00:51:36.883
So, let's engage them now with bible reading.
00:51:36.883 --> 00:51:40.219
They are very capable to understand scripture.
00:51:40.219 --> 00:51:43.623
So, let's challenge them, inspire them, encourage them,
00:51:43.623 --> 00:51:47.660
And learn god's word together.
00:51:47.660 --> 00:51:51.230
Ask and answer.
00:51:51.230 --> 00:51:53.733
This was one of the steps that mary said she uses each week
00:51:53.733 --> 00:51:57.570
With the children that she teaches at church, and it's one
00:51:57.570 --> 00:52:00.373
That we can use too.
00:52:00.373 --> 00:52:02.041
Ask any question that comes to mind when reading the passage.
00:52:02.041 --> 00:52:06.112
Like, where is that city today?
00:52:06.112 --> 00:52:08.481
Or, has jesus ever been to that town before?
00:52:08.481 --> 00:52:11.317
Or, who was in the crowd?
00:52:11.317 --> 00:52:13.753
Mary said that getting curious in our bible reading allows all
00:52:13.753 --> 00:52:17.290
Of us to ask deeper questions of the scriptures and get to know
00:52:17.290 --> 00:52:21.728
Its author better.
00:52:21.728 --> 00:52:23.429
So, parents, grandparents, you don't have to know all the
00:52:23.429 --> 00:52:26.432
Answers to your kids's questions, just tell your kids
00:52:26.432 --> 00:52:30.303
That you will help them find the answer, and that will set you on
00:52:30.303 --> 00:52:34.007
A mission together with them and model the importance of knowing
00:52:34.007 --> 00:52:38.444
God's word.
00:52:38.444 --> 00:52:40.113
Well, that's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:40.113 --> 00:52:42.382
Thanks for watching.
00:52:42.382 --> 00:52:43.716
And if you've enjoyed this show, don't forget to set your dvr so
00:52:43.716 --> 00:52:47.520
You never miss an episode.
00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:49.055
And of course, you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:52:49.055 --> 00:52:52.358
Searching for "takeaways" on tbn+ or by visiting the "kirk
00:52:52.358 --> 00:52:57.530
Cameron on tbn" youtube channel.
00:52:57.530 --> 00:53:00.700
We hope to see you here next time for more
00:53:00.700 --> 00:53:03.102
Great conversations.
00:53:03.102 --> 00:53:04.437
♪♪♪
00:53:04.437 --> 00:53:08.374
♪♪♪
00:53:10.376 --> 00:53:10.376

Lisa Harper & Mary Wiley: Growing Closer to God | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

April 7, 2025 | 53:25

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