Megan Fate Marshman & Holly Gerth: Entrusting our Worries to God’s Sovereignty | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

September 15, 2025 | 55:2

Join Kirk Cameron to discuss pressing issues Christians are facing with compassionate, well-informed guests, and together, find actionable takeaways that we can use today, this week, and this month to bring more of Heaven to Earth.

#Author #Sovereignty #Worry #Culture #TrustGod #Anxiety #Tragedy #Family #SeekGod #Stress #Peace

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Megan Fate Marshman & Holly Gerth: Entrusting our Worries to God’s Sovereignty | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | September 15, 2025

Kirk cameron: there was a popular song in the '80s
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By bobby mcferrin called "don't worry, be happy."
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It was a massive international hit and cultural phenomenon.
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Of course, those words resonate with all of us, because after
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All, we don't want to worry, and we all want to be happy.
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Unfortunately, we may have a tendency to default to living
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Anxious-filled days.
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My guest today, megan fate marshman and holley gerth, will
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Give us some biblical insights on how to obtain a little more
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Joy for our soul and a little less worry in our lives right
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Now on "takeaways."
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Megan marshman: anxiety is not just something you're trying to
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Get off of you.
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Imagine it as a doorway that you open to what's actually going on
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Inside of you.
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Holley gerth: as we do what we can, god will do what only he
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Can do, that he will partner with us in that process and lead
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Us into that peace.
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That is his heart for us.
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[music]
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Kirk: my first guest, megan fate marshman, is a teaching pastor
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At willow creek community church in illinois, as well as serving
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As the director of women's ministries at hume lake
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Christian camps.
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She's authored several books, and her latest is entitled
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"relaxed: walking with the one who is not worried about
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A thing."
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Megan, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
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Megan: oh, how fun to be here.
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Kirk: well, you're from california.
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I'm from california.
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Megan: don't hold it against us.
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Kirk: no, i know, and sometimes i tell people here in tennessee
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That when they ask me i say i escaped from california, and i'm
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Seeking asylum in your beautiful red state of tennessee.
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Megan: and i'm bringing heaven down back to the place that you
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Escaped from with the mass exodus.
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Kirk: yes, and you know we're praying for revival
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In california.
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Megan: thank you for praying from a distance.
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Kirk: this is a strategic retreat so that we can learn to
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Build community around faithful christians and take the secrets
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Back to california.
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Megan: wow, wow, wow.
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Kirk: it's so easy to be filled with anxiety today when we think
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Of all the things that are going on personally, with our families
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And our kids, and then tragedy strikes on a national level, on
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A global level.
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People are wondering if the end of the world is near.
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How in the world are you able to write a book about relaxed when
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The world seems to be out of control?
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Megan: yeah, the title actually came from a dallas willard
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Interview, so dr. bill gaultiere and him, i guess we're having a
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Conversation at some point, and he was asked, how would you
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Describe jesus in one word?
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Kirk: hmm.
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Megan: and dallas willard sat back and thought about it, and
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Relaxed was his answer.
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And i was so shocked by that, because i would think of things
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Like love, or what would you add?
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Like think of--like, what would you put, compassion, and the
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Names he gave himself, relaxed of all things, yet he got angry,
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Yet he was, i mean, driven to literally save the entire world,
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And yet that's the one word that the guy that i deeply look up to
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And i've learned a lot from over the years used to describe, and
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So i went on a journey to go if that's what he describes jesus,
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And if the goal of my life is to become more like him, so people
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Can meet him through me, then i wanna go on that journey.
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And what i realized was, man, that subtitle, it happens when
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You walk with the one who turns out is not worried
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About anything.
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Kirk: that's true, isn't it?
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When the disciples were on the boat in the storm, and they're
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We're gonna die, we're gonna die, and jesus didn't seem to be
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Worried about anything.
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Oh, you have little faith, and he's sleeping, or he's--and all
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Of the other times, so what are some of the examples of jesus
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Being relaxed in the midst of the pressure cooker?
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Megan: yes, i think he knew where to go in order to grow and
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Trust of the lord, to trust him.
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In fact, the entire book really is written based on some wisdom
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Literature in proverbs that's very famous.
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In fact, once i begin saying it, i'm sure everyone in their head
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Is saying it along with me, but they're probably saying it in a
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Monotone, because that's how the verses have landed on them
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Lately, or it's their life verse.
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Trust in the lord with all your heart, lean not on your own
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Understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will
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Direct your path.
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And you think about the life of jesus, which is what you asked,
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He got--it seemed like in the moments when it made the most
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Sense to go big, give the mass speech, he retreated.
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In the moments in which like you the storm happens, he
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Falls asleep.
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In the moments when--it seems like he almost did the exact
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Opposite of what people expected, which is why he would
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Say things like, "my time has not yet come," because people
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Had expectations of him.
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But his goal was not to meet people's expectations, it was to
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Trust in the lord with all his heart.
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And that's what we see throughout scripture.
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And what we find is even when he trusted him with some of the
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Stuff that we don't like that we try to hold in and we hold back,
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Things like anger, sadness, grief, all the things he
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Experienced in the garden of gethsemane, he knew where to
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Take it all.
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He knew what to do with it.
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And i think our culture, and let's blame the culture, because
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That feels a lot.
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Maybe we'll blame california.
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California teaches us to just not be anxious.
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It teaches us to just stop getting angry so much of, right?
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And think of people with small kids or parenting, right?
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If you get angry, you get more angry than you want to, and then
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Suddenly you go i just need to stop getting angry.
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And we, unlike jesus, don't trust in the lord, we trust in
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Our ability to just stop being angry.
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We try to read the next book that gets us to stop
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Being anxious.
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And what i love about this journey, what i went on, i
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Actually went back to school in the past couple of years and
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Learned a different way of doing all of it and learned a whole
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Lot of things that were incredibly surprising about
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Things like anxiety and even anger.
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Kirk: i really like what you're saying, because it's true, to
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Simply try to stop being angry or anxious is not what we see
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Jesus doing.
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There's times where he was angry, but when he was in the
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Garden and sweating great drops of blood, or when he's on the
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Cross, or when he's being reviled and tormented, he knows
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Where to go with all of that, and he entrusts himself to the
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One who's gonna use it all for good.
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I really love that very practical strategy.
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Now, you talk in your book about your story and your husband who
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Has gone to be with the lord in heaven, and you talk about that
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Wonderful verse of scripture, i believe it's in philippians,
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Where to die is gain, and that this book is really all about
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What you learned since your husband stepped into that game.
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Megan: yes.
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Kirk: can you unpack that a little bit?
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Megan: yeah, that verse to live is christ to die is gain, i
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Think all of us, right?
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Whether you're sitting around hoping and longing for jesus to
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Come back, which i think we all should, or whether you just wish
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That you could be in heaven already, because someone you
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Know is there or whatever, or you're just sick of the way that
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This world is going, to live is christ to die as gain, i think a
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Lot of us understand, especially if you've given your life to
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Jesus, that the die part is gain, right?
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We get heaven, we get life with god forever and ever and
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Ever, amen.
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To live is christ has been my focus, and what that means
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Basically is to live is to become like christ.
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And again, if christ is more relaxed, if he is walking with
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The father in such a way where he actually had freedom to
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Experience everything human but experience it perfectly, then i
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Want to know how to grieve well, because he did.
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I wanna know what to do with my anger, because it doesn't say
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Don't get angry, it just says be angry and don't sin, you know?
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Be careful, cast it away, right.
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And so there's all these things i feel like we can learn from
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Jesus, and i got to write this book on it, and i would say the
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Starting point for all of it and the one big takeaway that i
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Wouldn't want anyone to miss if they're watching this show or
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They're gonna skip over to the next second half of it, i don't
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Want them to miss this, would be that to trust the lord with
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Where you're at begins with honesty.
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One of my professors would say this, dr. john coe, he says
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Prayer is not a place to be good, it's a place to be honest.
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Because trusting the lord with all your heart is significant,
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Because as one chapter later in proverbs it says, above all
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Else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.
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In other words, if you want to change your life, you actually
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Have to go into the heart.
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You don't sit on a sunday morning and take a bunch of
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Notes and be content with it living in your head.
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You have to go into the heart, because above all else, guard
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It, because everything you do flows from it.
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So if you're wondering why am i so anxious?
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Why am i doing these things?
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Why do i not--why do i wake up in the morning saying i'm not
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Gonna do the thing and then i do the thing?
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It all comes from the heart, which is where we have to go,
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And i'm going to urge throughout this entire show to take the
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Honest truths to god, even if it's, god, i believe you can do
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Anything, and i do not believe in this moment that you're going
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To do anything about this thing, or i'm so mad, or i want to get
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Closer to you, but i've committed to spending quiet time
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With you so many times in my life, it hasn't worked out, and
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I've given up on being good at this whole christian morning
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Quiet time thing.
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If you want to get closer to god, tell him.
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If you feel like he's far, here's the surprise, tell him.
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If you're listening here and you're not sure why you're
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Listening here because you honestly don't care, tell him
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That, 'cause god's not gonna meet you where you're not, he's
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Gonna meet you right where you're at, and if you're willing
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To open up the heart, then it's possible for your actual life
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To change.
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It doesn't change by trying to change.
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It changes by going to your heart, which is the root of all
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Of your behavior in the first place.
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Kirk: yeah, you also talk in your book about the mistake that
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We make sometimes of trying to live autonomously apart from god
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Rather than sharing our journey with him and doing the best we
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Can to communicate everything that we feel.
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Megan: yes.
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Kirk: why do you think that is?
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Do you think that it's sort of wrapped up in this performance
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Mindset of god wants a good boy and a good girl, and that's who
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He's gonna listen to, so i'm trying to do it?
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Megan: yes, there's so much of our lives that we feel the
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Burden and the weight of even on a sunday morning, i want to
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Grow, and we're encouraged to grow, and we're not realizing
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That instead of going to god for the power to grow, we go to
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Ourselves to try harder.
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And we all know that our gospel is not try harder and then find
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Salvation, it's salvation and then you try harder of, you
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Know, i think we all understand that, the way that our effort or
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Where that's supposed to lie, it's not to get salvation, it's
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Because we are saved we want to put in effort, and i don't want
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To go against effort, but what i do wanna do, what i do wanna say
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Is with all the effort and all the good intention, all the
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Willpower, take it to god and not yourself.
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And if you're looking for a practical way to do that, i'll
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Let people in on a real practical one that's been
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Helpful for me.
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Kirk: please.
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Megan: i want to go to god and not myself.
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I want to wake up in the morning, and i want to pray, but
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I forget sometimes.
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But you know what i never forget is coffee, ever.
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I can't think of a time that i've just been like, oops.
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So i combined the two and my little coffee maker, that little
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Button that i push or flip that little switch, i put that as a
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New little trigger, i'm gonna take it to god instead of just
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To myself for the day, because i knew i wasn't gonna forget one
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Of those.
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And i love it.
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It's just an immediate way to do it.
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But then i do this little four-part prayer, and the one
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Part i'd want to encourage people, if you really want to
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Get to the heart, really want to get to the heart, i would say
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This, when you go to god in prayer, the temptation is to
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Perform like you just said, dear lord, thine is the
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Kingdom, yadda-yadda.
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Here's what i do.
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I present myself to the lord.
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I do this thing that reminds me of identity, and then i do this
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Crazy thing where, you know, when like you're praying and
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Then suddenly your mind starts to wander, and you're like way
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Over here for like 90 seconds?
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Most people, and myself in the past, when i realized my mind
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Was like over here, i would pause my prayer and then shame
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Myself back to the performance as if he didn't notice.
00:12:14.456 --> 00:12:17.526
So sorry, not sure what happened there.
00:12:17.526 --> 00:12:19.428
And then i go back to my little performance thinking what he
00:12:19.428 --> 00:12:21.630
Wants to hear.
00:12:21.630 --> 00:12:23.098
And here's what i've realized, one of my professors used to
00:12:23.098 --> 00:12:26.569
Teach that a wandering mind in prayer is a gift, because
00:12:26.569 --> 00:12:31.040
Where's our mind wandering to?
00:12:31.040 --> 00:12:33.609
Jesus put it this way, he says where your treasure is, there
00:12:33.609 --> 00:12:37.379
Your heart will be.
00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:40.516
So where our mind wanders to is likely what has the treasure,
00:12:40.516 --> 00:12:42.718
And you'd be surprised at where it goes, 'cause it might be the
00:12:42.718 --> 00:12:44.920
Finances, it might be the stressful marriage, it might be
00:12:44.920 --> 00:12:47.923
The kid, the way we're a kid, and i'll just say this, let it
00:12:47.923 --> 00:12:52.328
Wander and don't pause the prayer.
00:12:52.328 --> 00:12:55.598
You'll find me every morning with my coffee machine pushing a
00:12:55.598 --> 00:12:58.100
Button, reminding me to take it to god, including the entire
00:12:58.100 --> 00:13:00.636
Day, but also the little things that i am tempted to do
00:13:00.636 --> 00:13:03.339
Without him.
00:13:03.339 --> 00:13:05.174
Kirk: there's so many more questions i wanna ask you about
00:13:05.174 --> 00:13:08.477
Your approach to dealing with stress and anxiety, helping us
00:13:08.477 --> 00:13:12.147
To become more like jesus, more relaxed.
00:13:12.147 --> 00:13:15.150
But we're gonna go to a break, and when we come back, megan is
00:13:15.150 --> 00:13:17.419
Gonna share some insights on anxiety being a signal and what
00:13:17.419 --> 00:13:22.091
To do about it.
00:13:22.091 --> 00:13:23.459
And then later holley gerth is gonna talk with us about using
00:13:23.459 --> 00:13:25.527
The power of prayer and scripture when we feel anxious,
00:13:25.527 --> 00:13:28.564
So don't go away.
00:13:28.564 --> 00:13:29.932
Holley: scripture is our anchor in the midst of our anxiety and
00:13:29.932 --> 00:13:32.534
Our fear and our worry, it's a place we can always go home to.
00:13:32.534 --> 00:13:37.139
[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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Kirk: welcome back.
00:13:50.185 --> 00:13:51.553
We're talking with author and teaching pastor megan fate
00:13:51.553 --> 00:13:54.056
Marshman about trusting the lord with all of our anxious hearts.
00:13:54.056 --> 00:14:00.429
We spoke briefly in the last segment about rhythms, and i
00:14:00.429 --> 00:14:05.167
Love the idea of spiritual rhythms where decision-making is
00:14:05.167 --> 00:14:09.905
Taken out of the way, and we just have habits or rhythms that
00:14:09.905 --> 00:14:14.209
Help us do the things we know we ought to do.
00:14:14.209 --> 00:14:16.946
And you had talked about turning on the coffee machine and then
00:14:16.946 --> 00:14:22.017
Beginning to pray and, you know, sometimes i do this where i'll
00:14:22.017 --> 00:14:25.888
Turn on the coffee machine and between when it starts to brew
00:14:25.888 --> 00:14:29.758
And when i drink that first cup, i take a walk down the street,
00:14:29.758 --> 00:14:33.462
And i just thank god for all the blessings in my life.
00:14:33.462 --> 00:14:36.999
And i know that that is an important part of my day.
00:14:36.999 --> 00:14:40.235
Megan: yes, i feel like psychology is catching up with
00:14:40.235 --> 00:14:42.071
Biblical truth that comes--that tells us all the time be
00:14:42.071 --> 00:14:44.606
Grateful, be grateful, live thankful, live thankful, and i
00:14:44.606 --> 00:14:46.542
Love that you're living in that.
00:14:46.542 --> 00:14:48.110
I'd be curious to hear, how do you walk with the one who's not
00:14:48.110 --> 00:14:51.213
Worried about a thing throughout the day, in the mornings?
00:14:51.213 --> 00:14:54.316
Like, what is your intimate time, maybe secret time.
00:14:54.316 --> 00:14:57.586
They know your public life.
00:14:57.586 --> 00:14:59.355
I'm gonna take a second because i can, it's not my show, but.
00:14:59.355 --> 00:15:04.793
Kirk: well, i'm stumbling my way through just like everyone else
00:15:04.793 --> 00:15:10.699
On this side of heaven, and i am really concerned about a lot
00:15:10.699 --> 00:15:15.270
Of things.
00:15:15.270 --> 00:15:16.605
And so i came up with this little thing in my mind, and i
00:15:16.605 --> 00:15:19.174
Don't know, you, you could tell me if you think this is biblical
00:15:19.174 --> 00:15:22.978
Or not, but i think of sort of like these growing concentric
00:15:22.978 --> 00:15:26.882
Circles of influence and opportunity for me to change.
00:15:26.882 --> 00:15:32.421
So like, think of it like, imagine this was a circle here,
00:15:32.421 --> 00:15:35.290
And the small circle is the stuff that i can
00:15:35.290 --> 00:15:38.827
Personally affect.
00:15:38.827 --> 00:15:40.295
And i say i want to savor the small things, like that cup of
00:15:40.295 --> 00:15:43.832
Coffee in the morning, holding my granddaughter, loving my
00:15:43.832 --> 00:15:47.269
Wife, doing the things i can.
00:15:47.269 --> 00:15:48.604
I want to savor those things.
00:15:48.604 --> 00:15:49.972
And then sort of like the next circle is the medium, and i want
00:15:49.972 --> 00:15:52.641
To make much of the medium, which is my job here on
00:15:52.641 --> 00:15:56.078
"takeaways," talking with you and doing others, and then i let
00:15:56.078 --> 00:15:59.615
Go of the large things that i don't have control over.
00:15:59.615 --> 00:16:03.152
Some stuff i can affect, other things god hasn't put me there
00:16:03.152 --> 00:16:06.855
To affect, and some things are all things i know he's working
00:16:06.855 --> 00:16:10.893
Together for good for those who love him.
00:16:10.893 --> 00:16:12.761
So i'm like, you know, god's in his heaven, he's in control, and
00:16:12.761 --> 00:16:16.365
It's gonna be okay.
00:16:16.365 --> 00:16:17.733
Megan: yes, i'm gonna take a minute on that, 8:28, romans
00:16:17.733 --> 00:16:20.402
8:28 that you just referenced.
00:16:20.402 --> 00:16:21.770
It's gonna be okay, he works all things for good.
00:16:21.770 --> 00:16:24.239
I wanna take a moment and redefine good, because if we
00:16:24.239 --> 00:16:29.711
Aren't careful with that verse, which i think you are because
00:16:29.711 --> 00:16:33.048
You understand it, that verse typically we give to people not
00:16:33.048 --> 00:16:36.385
When things are going well.
00:16:36.385 --> 00:16:37.753
God works everything for good.
00:16:37.753 --> 00:16:39.088
We get it when things are going terrible, and typically we bring
00:16:39.088 --> 00:16:42.724
In it with a cultural understanding of the word good
00:16:42.724 --> 00:16:44.827
Means, which is comfortable, easy, successful, rich, all
00:16:44.827 --> 00:16:47.996
Those things, and if that's the case, then i would say, 'cause
00:16:47.996 --> 00:16:52.701
That starts where we know that in all things god works for
00:16:52.701 --> 00:16:54.636
The good.
00:16:54.636 --> 00:16:55.971
And i wonder if people listening in, maybe they are captivated by
00:16:55.971 --> 00:16:57.706
This idea of we're talking about anxiety.
00:16:57.706 --> 00:17:00.209
That's included in all things.
00:17:00.209 --> 00:17:01.977
For me, i lost my spouse, that's included in all things.
00:17:01.977 --> 00:17:05.581
Now let's get personal.
00:17:05.581 --> 00:17:07.049
What is everyone's thing listening in, i wonder?
00:17:07.049 --> 00:17:10.119
Because here's what you can know that in all things god works for
00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:11.920
The good, but if we're not careful, we'll define that based
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.923
On how america does, which is that thing is gonna make you
00:17:14.923 --> 00:17:18.026
Feel more comfortable or happy or successful.
00:17:18.026 --> 00:17:20.996
But thankfully, paul keeps writing, because in verse 29 he
00:17:20.996 --> 00:17:24.066
Redefines good when he says this, for those god foreknew, he
00:17:24.066 --> 00:17:26.535
Also predestined.
00:17:26.535 --> 00:17:28.103
That's not about salvation, that's about if the spirit is in
00:17:28.103 --> 00:17:30.839
You, which is all of romans 8, the spirit is in you, you are
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.842
Predestined for this to be conformed to the image of his
00:17:33.842 --> 00:17:37.746
Son, and that is the good that god is doing in every single
00:17:37.746 --> 00:17:42.050
Circle of your life.
00:17:42.050 --> 00:17:43.385
He wants to use all those things to form you more into the
00:17:43.385 --> 00:17:46.321
Likeness of jesus.
00:17:46.321 --> 00:17:47.656
So if you find yourself overly-concerned about the
00:17:47.656 --> 00:17:50.225
Biggest circle that you can't touch, but man, you feel like
00:17:50.225 --> 00:17:52.895
You're worries is doing something about it, number one,
00:17:52.895 --> 00:17:55.531
It's not, but you can take that worry somewhere.
00:17:55.531 --> 00:17:57.533
And here's the encouragement, rather than just letting it live
00:17:57.533 --> 00:17:59.968
In your body and overwhelm your conversations with the people
00:17:59.968 --> 00:18:02.905
That you love the most in that small circle, i would encourage
00:18:02.905 --> 00:18:05.774
You to take that truth that you just brought up to heart.
00:18:05.774 --> 00:18:09.144
God wants to use that for good to make you more like jesus, not
00:18:09.144 --> 00:18:11.680
To make your life more comfortable, easy, happy,
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:13.315
Or successful.
00:18:13.315 --> 00:18:14.683
So, i would, with the worry that you feel in any of those
00:18:14.683 --> 00:18:18.720
Circles, take that worry and take the time it literally takes
00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:24.693
To speak it to the one who's not worried and is going to use it
00:18:24.693 --> 00:18:29.965
For good.
00:18:29.965 --> 00:18:31.333
Let it conform you to the image of his son.
00:18:31.333 --> 00:18:35.103
Let it make you more like jesus.
00:18:35.103 --> 00:18:39.541
Kirk: you like to say that anxiety is not a sin but a
00:18:39.541 --> 00:18:43.345
Signal and that we should listen to those signals.
00:18:43.345 --> 00:18:46.048
And then you also talk about anxiety being doorways,
00:18:46.048 --> 00:18:52.254
Not walls.
00:18:52.254 --> 00:18:54.022
What do you mean by that?
00:18:54.022 --> 00:18:55.390
Megan: yeah, yeah, so typically people see something like
00:18:55.390 --> 00:18:58.427
Anxiety, and they want to remove it.
00:18:58.427 --> 00:19:01.129
So we ask god, and we ask him to pray it away, and we ought to
00:19:01.129 --> 00:19:04.199
Because we don't like the feeling.
00:19:04.199 --> 00:19:06.201
Obviously, who wants to feel anxious about anything?
00:19:06.201 --> 00:19:09.871
But the surprising part about it being a doorway is
00:19:09.871 --> 00:19:12.407
It's possible.
00:19:12.407 --> 00:19:13.742
It's not a wall, it's not something that just stops you,
00:19:13.742 --> 00:19:16.511
It actually can be something you--here's the word for
00:19:16.511 --> 00:19:18.914
Everybody--open.
00:19:18.914 --> 00:19:20.983
'cause if you open it to the one who understands where it's
00:19:20.983 --> 00:19:25.287
Coming from, 'cause what the spirit is doing in your heart,
00:19:25.287 --> 00:19:28.490
Where all of romans 8 talks about what the spirit is doing,
00:19:28.490 --> 00:19:31.159
He's searching your heart, and he wants to use all the things
00:19:31.159 --> 00:19:33.729
That are in it, including the anxiety.
00:19:33.729 --> 00:19:35.330
So suddenly, we don't just ask god to take away the anxiety, we
00:19:35.330 --> 00:19:38.500
Ask him to open it up and teach us why are we so anxious?
00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:42.537
What are you doing here?
00:19:42.537 --> 00:19:43.872
Now, i recognize in the moment that someone's feeling
00:19:43.872 --> 00:19:45.240
Overwhelmed, it's gonna be hard to be like and dear lord, but i
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.943
Would say there's a place you can take all of your worries,
00:19:47.943 --> 00:19:51.413
And it's not--like, anxiety is not just something you're trying
00:19:51.413 --> 00:19:54.383
To get off of you.
00:19:54.383 --> 00:19:56.084
Imagine it as a doorway that you open to what's actually going on
00:19:56.084 --> 00:20:00.722
Inside of you, and suddenly then you can bring that for the one
00:20:00.722 --> 00:20:04.159
Who understands it.
00:20:04.159 --> 00:20:05.494
He'll search it with you, and he'll even love you, and he'll
00:20:05.494 --> 00:20:09.798
Bring truth.
00:20:09.798 --> 00:20:11.133
Like, i know, another famous one, i know the plans i have
00:20:11.133 --> 00:20:14.403
For you.
00:20:14.403 --> 00:20:15.771
We know that he knows them, but maybe what our anxiety is
00:20:15.771 --> 00:20:18.540
Signaling to us is we don't trust him, or we don't like the
00:20:18.540 --> 00:20:24.246
Plans, and if that's true, here's my encouragement,
00:20:24.246 --> 00:20:26.748
Tell him.
00:20:26.748 --> 00:20:28.183
He's not going to meet you at some pretend more spiritual
00:20:28.183 --> 00:20:31.887
Version with more faith version of you, he'll meet you right in
00:20:31.887 --> 00:20:36.224
Your lack of faith, and that's where he wants to meet you.
00:20:36.224 --> 00:20:39.394
And when he does, you will be walking with the one who's not
00:20:39.394 --> 00:20:43.732
Worried about a thing.
00:20:43.732 --> 00:20:45.801
Kirk: you also talk about this sanctification gap.
00:20:45.801 --> 00:20:50.205
Help us understand what you mean by that and the role that it
00:20:50.205 --> 00:20:53.175
Plays in us failing to live relaxed lives.
00:20:53.175 --> 00:20:57.179
Megan: yeah, so the sanctification gap is basically
00:20:57.179 --> 00:20:59.114
The gap between where we ought to be or want to be and where
00:20:59.114 --> 00:21:02.351
We're actually at.
00:21:02.351 --> 00:21:03.685
Now, the question is i wonder what people do with that gap?
00:21:03.685 --> 00:21:06.888
You've seen people walk away from church 'cause they hear,
00:21:06.888 --> 00:21:09.224
They don't have this language for it, but they go so you're
00:21:09.224 --> 00:21:12.094
Telling me i'm supposed to be perfect, i'm not.
00:21:12.094 --> 00:21:15.197
So basically, i show up at church, and you remind me about
00:21:15.197 --> 00:21:16.832
The gap and how big it is every single week, and that makes me
00:21:16.832 --> 00:21:19.101
Feel defeated.
00:21:19.101 --> 00:21:20.469
Kirk: yeah, make me feel bad about myself.
00:21:20.469 --> 00:21:21.803
Megan: yeah, so what they do is they actually leave the church
00:21:21.803 --> 00:21:23.405
In search of a different gap that they feel like they have
00:21:23.405 --> 00:21:25.741
The capacity to climb, because if i have the capacity to climb
00:21:25.741 --> 00:21:28.844
A different gap, so maybe that gap is success or wealth, or
00:21:28.844 --> 00:21:32.581
Maybe it's relationship status.
00:21:32.581 --> 00:21:34.383
Kirk: somewhere where i can win.
00:21:34.383 --> 00:21:35.751
Megan: yeah, they wanna go find a different one altogether.
00:21:35.751 --> 00:21:37.452
So that's the first temptation when it comes to the gap.
00:21:37.452 --> 00:21:39.921
The second temptation is to despair over the gap, and i
00:21:39.921 --> 00:21:43.425
Think this one is actually more prevalent in the church than we
00:21:43.425 --> 00:21:45.594
Realize, and it's this.
00:21:45.594 --> 00:21:47.362
I don't think i'm actually gonna be shrinking it.
00:21:47.362 --> 00:21:49.631
I feel like in my faith, as i grow older, i become more aware
00:21:49.631 --> 00:21:53.335
Of how big it is.
00:21:53.335 --> 00:21:54.803
So people just kind of give up on things like quiet time, and i
00:21:54.803 --> 00:21:58.206
Might be touching someone right here.
00:21:58.206 --> 00:22:00.776
They just go i'm not really ever gonna get it, so i'll just keep
00:22:00.776 --> 00:22:03.745
Coming to church and hopefully that person will motivate me to
00:22:03.745 --> 00:22:05.914
Keep coming, 'cause i know they have quiet time.
00:22:05.914 --> 00:22:07.682
I just don't really think that i'm as spiritual as
00:22:07.682 --> 00:22:09.818
Everybody else.
00:22:09.818 --> 00:22:11.153
I feel like i'm missing something, so they feel despair
00:22:11.153 --> 00:22:12.754
About the gap.
00:22:12.754 --> 00:22:14.089
Now, the best part about the gap and why i love bringing it up
00:22:14.089 --> 00:22:17.225
Here is that the best response to the gap is not our efforts to
00:22:17.225 --> 00:22:22.864
Shrink the gap.
00:22:22.864 --> 00:22:24.232
The best response to the gap is not even our response to the
00:22:24.232 --> 00:22:28.270
Gap, because--and this is the beauty of christmas--the one
00:22:28.270 --> 00:22:33.108
Who knew that we couldn't climb up that ladder to get to him
00:22:33.108 --> 00:22:36.278
Climbed down the ladder to be with us and make a way for us to
00:22:36.278 --> 00:22:39.014
Be with him forever.
00:22:39.014 --> 00:22:40.382
And i want that visual for people if you've been feeling
00:22:40.382 --> 00:22:42.517
This, i'm not as i should be, i'm not as i should be, i should
00:22:42.517 --> 00:22:44.586
Be reading my bible more, i should be praying, i should,
00:22:44.586 --> 00:22:46.655
Should, should, should, should, no wonder we're so anxious.
00:22:46.655 --> 00:22:49.491
No wonder we're so anxious.
00:22:49.491 --> 00:22:51.793
Receive the beauty of the gospel, the good news, that when
00:22:51.793 --> 00:22:55.697
You couldn't get to him, he, while we were still sinners, he
00:22:55.697 --> 00:23:00.368
Came to us, lived for us, died for us, because what we deserve
00:23:00.368 --> 00:23:06.107
Is death, took that which we deserve, and then by grace
00:23:06.107 --> 00:23:09.177
Through faith, we receive what jesus deserved.
00:23:09.177 --> 00:23:13.315
I grew up in the church like you.
00:23:13.315 --> 00:23:15.684
I have known the gospel, i think, the majority of my life,
00:23:15.684 --> 00:23:18.453
But i missed that exchange.
00:23:18.453 --> 00:23:20.288
I knew jesus died on the cross for my sins to take care of that
00:23:20.288 --> 00:23:22.824
Gap, and therefore, i could be with him forever in heaven.
00:23:22.824 --> 00:23:25.827
What i missed is that all the benefits of heaven are possible
00:23:25.827 --> 00:23:30.932
To taste here and now.
00:23:30.932 --> 00:23:32.267
I missed that he took mine, and i received his, which is why the
00:23:32.267 --> 00:23:37.639
Apostle paul goes off in the books of the bible, ephesians,
00:23:37.639 --> 00:23:40.642
Galatians, all those and says in christ you're blameless, whole,
00:23:40.642 --> 00:23:42.878
The dwelling place in which god lives by his spirit.
00:23:42.878 --> 00:23:44.846
That feels like it's at odds with the sanctification gap.
00:23:44.846 --> 00:23:47.349
The truth is who he is came to us so that we could be found
00:23:47.349 --> 00:23:51.353
In him.
00:23:51.353 --> 00:23:52.721
There was a great exchange.
00:23:52.721 --> 00:23:54.055
I get to go at great lengths.
00:23:54.055 --> 00:23:55.423
Here we can talk for seconds, but i'll just say this, it's
00:23:55.423 --> 00:23:57.158
Gonna be okay.
00:23:57.158 --> 00:23:58.593
Kirk: yeah, you're making me think about how i feel when
00:23:58.593 --> 00:24:05.667
I'm anxious.
00:24:05.667 --> 00:24:07.002
What i ought to do is not see this as this awful thing that
00:24:07.002 --> 00:24:09.004
I'm just trying to make go away, but rather see it maybe like a
00:24:09.004 --> 00:24:12.741
Symptom that makes me make an appointment with my doctor so
00:24:12.741 --> 00:24:16.878
That he can bring healing to the place that's hurting.
00:24:16.878 --> 00:24:20.181
So, maybe, like you're saying, anxiety is a signal that could
00:24:20.181 --> 00:24:24.920
Get us on our knees with an appointment with the great
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.957
Physician, saying here's what's hurting, and he can bring
00:24:28.957 --> 00:24:33.328
Healing to those places that we're anxious about.
00:24:33.328 --> 00:24:36.231
Like you said, maybe it's the way we're a child, maybe it's
00:24:36.231 --> 00:24:38.833
Health and finances or something like that.
00:24:38.833 --> 00:24:42.103
Megan: i think our bodies are always trying to communicate.
00:24:42.103 --> 00:24:44.673
The simple one is i feel sick, something's wrong.
00:24:44.673 --> 00:24:49.077
I don't think we realize that our bodies are communicating.
00:24:49.077 --> 00:24:52.747
There's space in your life that you can trust the lord, not by
00:24:52.747 --> 00:24:56.117
Just declaring, god, i trust you, and then that's it.
00:24:56.117 --> 00:24:59.354
It's god, i trust you and i want to trust you, and actually, in
00:24:59.354 --> 00:25:03.825
Some ways, i don't trust you.
00:25:03.825 --> 00:25:06.194
And that is finally trusting in the lord with all of our heart.
00:25:06.194 --> 00:25:11.132
Not trusting him with the ideals, but trusting him with
00:25:11.132 --> 00:25:13.535
All of our heart.
00:25:13.535 --> 00:25:14.869
And things like anxiety is our body signaling,
00:25:14.869 --> 00:25:18.340
Like you said to us, ah!
00:25:18.340 --> 00:25:20.542
You can't do this on your own.
00:25:20.542 --> 00:25:22.010
And the best news of all is we don't have to.
00:25:22.010 --> 00:25:26.915
Kirk: and god is the one who's gonna bring peace to our
00:25:26.915 --> 00:25:30.418
Hearts, yeah.
00:25:30.418 --> 00:25:31.786
Megan: yes.
00:25:31.786 --> 00:25:33.121
Kirk: megan, thank you so much.
00:25:33.121 --> 00:25:34.489
Thanks for talking with me and sharing this with us and for
00:25:34.489 --> 00:25:36.591
Writing the book, because we all want to be more relaxed.
00:25:36.591 --> 00:25:40.095
Thank you, and after the break, holley gerth is gonna help us
00:25:40.095 --> 00:25:43.798
Discover the power that god has given us to combat our worry and
00:25:43.798 --> 00:25:47.168
Anxiety using prayer and scripture.
00:25:47.168 --> 00:25:49.938
Stay with us.
00:25:49.938 --> 00:25:51.940
[music]
00:25:51.940 --> 00:25:57.001
[music]
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[music]
00:25:58.046 --> 00:26:01.082
Kirk: my next guest, holley gerth, is a "wall street
00:26:04.486 --> 00:26:06.721
Journal" bestselling author, a life coach, and the co-host of
00:26:06.721 --> 00:26:10.625
The "more than small talk" podcast.
00:26:10.625 --> 00:26:12.994
She has a master of science degree in mental health
00:26:12.994 --> 00:26:15.563
Counseling, and her most recent book is "prayers for peace
00:26:15.563 --> 00:26:19.134
Of mind."
00:26:19.134 --> 00:26:20.502
Holley, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
00:26:20.502 --> 00:26:21.836
Holley: thanks for having me.
00:26:21.836 --> 00:26:23.171
Kirk: well, i am fascinated by the subject of mental health and
00:26:23.171 --> 00:26:28.576
Peace in the midst of stress and anxiety, because it just seems
00:26:28.576 --> 00:26:32.414
Like we can't get away from all of the worry and all of
00:26:32.414 --> 00:26:35.950
The fear.
00:26:35.950 --> 00:26:37.285
It's like there is an agenda to make us stressed out and melt
00:26:37.285 --> 00:26:42.323
Down mentally when we are scrolling through our social
00:26:42.323 --> 00:26:46.061
Media feeds and we look at everything happening in
00:26:46.061 --> 00:26:48.830
The world.
00:26:48.830 --> 00:26:50.932
Do you think that there's more anxiety and fear and stress
00:26:50.932 --> 00:26:53.635
Today, say, than there was during my parents' age?
00:26:53.635 --> 00:26:57.439
Holley: i do, especially post-covid.
00:26:57.439 --> 00:26:59.974
I think that globally put us into fight or flight, and we
00:26:59.974 --> 00:27:03.845
Have not fully recovered.
00:27:03.845 --> 00:27:06.047
Kirk: i agree.
00:27:06.047 --> 00:27:07.382
Holley: and that.
00:27:07.382 --> 00:27:08.750
Is different than something that humanity has experienced, where
00:27:08.750 --> 00:27:10.085
The entire world was in a collective state of stress.
00:27:10.085 --> 00:27:13.855
Even wars usually involve some countries but not others, and
00:27:13.855 --> 00:27:17.158
Yet we as humanity ended up here.
00:27:17.158 --> 00:27:19.761
That and we live in an age where news thrives on attention, and
00:27:19.761 --> 00:27:23.865
What gets the most attention is fear, and fear puts us
00:27:23.865 --> 00:27:28.470
Into anxiety.
00:27:28.470 --> 00:27:29.804
And so we also have places that are intentionally activating our
00:27:29.804 --> 00:27:33.641
Fight or flight responses in ways that may not have been in
00:27:33.641 --> 00:27:37.479
The past.
00:27:37.479 --> 00:27:38.813
And so i think those two things combined and just the pace of
00:27:38.813 --> 00:27:42.383
Everyday life now has put us into a new level of anxiety.
00:27:42.383 --> 00:27:47.222
Kirk: and why is it important to you personally?
00:27:47.222 --> 00:27:48.957
Of all things you could do, you know, you have your family, you
00:27:48.957 --> 00:27:52.494
Have ministry, you have, you know, a master of science
00:27:52.494 --> 00:27:56.197
Degree, why do you want to help people with this topic?
00:27:56.197 --> 00:27:59.834
Holley: this is something i've struggled with since i
00:27:59.834 --> 00:28:01.836
Was a kid.
00:28:01.836 --> 00:28:03.304
I was the kid who had to leave my little elementary school
00:28:03.304 --> 00:28:05.140
Classroom and go to the nurse's office a lot, because i had
00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:07.742
Stomach aches that were actually anxiety, and so this has been a
00:28:07.742 --> 00:28:12.046
Lifelong battle.
00:28:12.046 --> 00:28:13.414
Kirk: so this isn't just business, this is personal
00:28:13.414 --> 00:28:15.183
For you.
00:28:15.183 --> 00:28:16.518
Holley: yeah, this is personal for me.
00:28:16.518 --> 00:28:18.620
Kirk: you mentioned that people may wonder if their faith is
00:28:18.620 --> 00:28:22.724
Weak because they're struggling with fear and anxiety.
00:28:22.724 --> 00:28:26.528
What do you say to that?
00:28:26.528 --> 00:28:27.862
Holley: well, i think it's important to know that when god
00:28:27.862 --> 00:28:29.998
Says in scripture, do not fear, he's almost always saying it to
00:28:29.998 --> 00:28:34.202
Someone who is already afraid.
00:28:34.202 --> 00:28:36.771
It is not a prohibition, it is a reassurance.
00:28:36.771 --> 00:28:40.341
Kirk: say that again.
00:28:40.341 --> 00:28:41.676
Holley: it is not a prohibition, it is a reassurance.
00:28:41.676 --> 00:28:44.946
So it would be like you saying to your children when they wake
00:28:44.946 --> 00:28:47.549
Up in the night with a nightmare, do not fear.
00:28:47.549 --> 00:28:51.519
You're not saying do not fear, don't you trust me?
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:54.656
And i think it's so important to know the difference.
00:28:54.656 --> 00:28:57.358
Kirk: it's like don't fear, honey.
00:28:57.358 --> 00:28:59.327
Holley: exactly, it's okay, and we often say it to ourselves as
00:28:59.327 --> 00:29:04.132
If it's a command, like god's saying do not fear or you're
00:29:04.132 --> 00:29:07.068
Gonna be in trouble.
00:29:07.068 --> 00:29:08.436
Kirk: you know, i've heard friends say that, holley, sorry
00:29:08.436 --> 00:29:10.505
To cut you off, but this is interesting.
00:29:10.505 --> 00:29:12.440
I'm kind of a light bulb moment here.
00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:14.142
I've had friends who have said, you know it's a sin to worry?
00:29:14.142 --> 00:29:16.911
God says do not be anxious about anything but everything with
00:29:16.911 --> 00:29:19.948
Prayer and supplication of thanksgiving, you know, pray
00:29:19.948 --> 00:29:22.283
About everything.
00:29:22.283 --> 00:29:23.618
And i'm like, okay.
00:29:23.618 --> 00:29:24.986
Okay, well i know it's wrong to doubt, and i know that i
00:29:24.986 --> 00:29:29.190
Shouldn't be worried, but you're giving an angle on it that the
00:29:29.190 --> 00:29:33.628
Lord is like don't worry, son, don't worry, daughter, just come
00:29:33.628 --> 00:29:37.332
To me, pray, and i'm gonna protect you, a reassurance
00:29:37.332 --> 00:29:41.469
Rather than a prohibition against sin.
00:29:41.469 --> 00:29:46.507
Holley: yeah, yeah, invitation to say you're going to
00:29:46.507 --> 00:29:49.143
Experience this.
00:29:49.143 --> 00:29:50.478
You have a human body with a fight or flight response, that
00:29:50.478 --> 00:29:53.448
Means you're gonna experience fear, you're gonna
00:29:53.448 --> 00:29:55.550
Experience anxiety.
00:29:55.550 --> 00:29:56.918
If a lion came out of the backstage right now, it would be
00:29:56.918 --> 00:29:59.587
Appropriate for us to run and feel fear.
00:29:59.587 --> 00:30:01.923
Kirk: that's right, i wouldn't say to you, holley don't worry.
00:30:01.923 --> 00:30:04.692
I would say, holley, don't worry, the lion's on a leash,
00:30:04.692 --> 00:30:08.396
He's not gonna get you.
00:30:08.396 --> 00:30:09.731
Holley: yes, so that is more the voice of god.
00:30:09.731 --> 00:30:11.566
It's an invitation of when you experience this, you do not have
00:30:11.566 --> 00:30:15.503
To stay here, i will bring you out of it.
00:30:15.503 --> 00:30:18.673
So that's what he doesn't want for us is to stay stuck in fear
00:30:18.673 --> 00:30:22.810
And worry all the time, but he says i get it, i made you, i'm
00:30:22.810 --> 00:30:26.614
Here, i will take you by the hand, and i will lead you with
00:30:26.614 --> 00:30:30.485
Compassion, out of anxiety, out of fear, out of worry, and into
00:30:30.485 --> 00:30:34.689
Peace, and that is an entirely different mindset than i don't
00:30:34.689 --> 00:30:38.693
Trust god if i feel fear or worry or have anxiety.
00:30:38.693 --> 00:30:42.030
Kirk: i like that, i like that, because you're right, god did
00:30:42.030 --> 00:30:45.199
Give us, biologically speaking, a fight or flight reaction that
00:30:45.199 --> 00:30:51.172
Happens, i think involuntarily.
00:30:51.172 --> 00:30:55.009
I mean, if something happens and that fight or flight kicks in, i
00:30:55.009 --> 00:30:58.613
Mean, you're not thinking, you're just doing.
00:30:58.613 --> 00:31:00.415
I'm running, or i'm swinging, and that actually helps to keep
00:31:00.415 --> 00:31:04.953
Us safe, to run from danger or to fight for the things that
00:31:04.953 --> 00:31:10.024
Really matter to where it's like it's go time, and we're not
00:31:10.024 --> 00:31:13.928
Gonna let that happen, but if we are scared of things that we
00:31:13.928 --> 00:31:18.700
Don't need to be afraid of because god has got our back,
00:31:18.700 --> 00:31:21.836
Then he comes in with this reassurance and saying you don't
00:31:21.836 --> 00:31:25.606
Need to go there right now.
00:31:25.606 --> 00:31:27.275
Holley: jesus himself was so anxious in the garden of
00:31:27.275 --> 00:31:29.911
Gethsemane that he sweat drops of blood.
00:31:29.911 --> 00:31:32.714
Like, there's no way that you could look at that--
00:31:32.714 --> 00:31:34.716
Kirk: there was no lack of faith on his part.
00:31:34.716 --> 00:31:36.050
Holley: no, he was like i don't wanna do this, but i'm committed
00:31:36.050 --> 00:31:38.319
To obedience, and yet my body, my nervous system is saying this
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:42.357
Is significant.
00:31:42.357 --> 00:31:44.058
I'm having a physical response to this.
00:31:44.058 --> 00:31:46.227
So even in the midst of physical anxiety, we can have
00:31:46.227 --> 00:31:49.297
Spiritual faith.
00:31:49.297 --> 00:31:50.631
Kirk: okay, holley, based on your book, what position do you
00:31:50.631 --> 00:31:55.370
Put scripture in terms of the antidote, the cure, to help with
00:31:55.370 --> 00:32:00.008
Stress and anxiety?
00:32:00.008 --> 00:32:01.342
Holley: i think that scripture makes a terrible band-aid, it
00:32:01.342 --> 00:32:04.846
Makes an amazing healer.
00:32:04.846 --> 00:32:07.315
And so, again, we can use scripture, like saying do not
00:32:07.315 --> 00:32:11.252
Fear to someone who's afraid in a legitimate way because we want
00:32:11.252 --> 00:32:14.756
To shut down that emotion, and that is not helpful, because it
00:32:14.756 --> 00:32:18.359
Doesn't deal with the entirety of our humanity that's
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.729
Experienced that.
00:32:21.729 --> 00:32:23.064
But if we say you're okay, you're not alone, god is with
00:32:23.064 --> 00:32:26.901
You, there is reassurance like we talked about.
00:32:26.901 --> 00:32:29.704
Here is the truth you can cling to, the home base you can move
00:32:29.704 --> 00:32:34.442
Toward in that fear, then that can be healing and helpful.
00:32:34.442 --> 00:32:38.346
And so scripture is our anchor in the midst of our anxiety and
00:32:38.346 --> 00:32:41.916
Our fear and our worry, it's a place we can always go home to.
00:32:41.916 --> 00:32:46.554
I just don't think it's meant to be something that's dismissive
00:32:46.554 --> 00:32:49.757
Of human emotion and experience.
00:32:49.757 --> 00:32:51.726
Kirk: mmm, that's so good, because i've experienced that
00:32:51.726 --> 00:32:54.629
Where someone experiences something traumatic and people
00:32:54.629 --> 00:32:58.566
Will throw out a scripture verse to make the bad feeling go away,
00:32:58.566 --> 00:33:04.305
And it doesn't.
00:33:04.305 --> 00:33:06.040
It's dismissive of this deep ache within somebody, and what
00:33:06.040 --> 00:33:10.711
We need to do is go into not just verses but passages and
00:33:10.711 --> 00:33:14.515
Books of scripture to understand the character of god, the heart
00:33:14.515 --> 00:33:17.985
Of god and frame our worldview with the kind of truth that
00:33:17.985 --> 00:33:23.458
Helps us to understand these things and heal deeply.
00:33:23.458 --> 00:33:26.928
Holley: yes, and i think scripture, too, is always meant
00:33:26.928 --> 00:33:29.397
To lead us to the heart of god himself, so when we use
00:33:29.397 --> 00:33:33.301
Scripture in a way to modify behavior like stop being afraid
00:33:33.301 --> 00:33:38.139
Because it makes us uncomfortable, that actually
00:33:38.139 --> 00:33:40.775
Cuts off intimacy with god, because we are created to go
00:33:40.775 --> 00:33:44.879
Directly to him with those emotions, and when we just
00:33:44.879 --> 00:33:47.448
Dismiss them, we lose that opportunity.
00:33:47.448 --> 00:33:50.751
So i love that jesus wept outside of the tomb of lazarus.
00:33:50.751 --> 00:33:54.555
I think that is permission from god to fully enter into human
00:33:54.555 --> 00:33:59.327
Emotion, even knowing that there's faith and resurrection
00:33:59.327 --> 00:34:03.798
And hope coming.
00:34:03.798 --> 00:34:05.867
Kirk: holley, in your book, you give us prayer after prayer
00:34:05.867 --> 00:34:09.003
After prayer to help bring us to the heart of god and heal the
00:34:09.003 --> 00:34:13.975
Anxious thoughts and the worry.
00:34:13.975 --> 00:34:15.543
What are some of the most common anxious thoughts that prompted
00:34:15.543 --> 00:34:18.980
These prayers?
00:34:18.980 --> 00:34:20.348
Holley: i think one phrase really sums up a lot of our
00:34:20.348 --> 00:34:22.950
Fears, it's i'm not going to be able to handle this.
00:34:22.950 --> 00:34:26.754
Kirk: yeah.
00:34:26.754 --> 00:34:28.089
Holley: i'm not gonna be able to handle this, whatever it is.
00:34:28.089 --> 00:34:29.690
Kirk: i don't have what it takes to deal with what i've got to
00:34:29.690 --> 00:34:31.792
Deal with.
00:34:31.792 --> 00:34:33.127
Holley: yes, but personally, i couldn't handle getting cancer.
00:34:33.127 --> 00:34:35.997
I couldn't handle going through a divorce.
00:34:35.997 --> 00:34:37.865
Or for our loved ones, i couldn't handle it if something
00:34:37.865 --> 00:34:40.868
Happened to this person in my life.
00:34:40.868 --> 00:34:43.070
And so i think that's a lot of what we are saying to ourselves
00:34:43.070 --> 00:34:47.408
When we begin to feel anxious is i'm not going to be able to
00:34:47.408 --> 00:34:50.578
Handle this.
00:34:50.578 --> 00:34:51.946
Kirk: because we understand that at the end of the day god
00:34:51.946 --> 00:34:54.382
Doesn't give us anything we can't handle with his help.
00:34:54.382 --> 00:34:58.052
He doesn't overwhelm us and put a mountain on our backs that's
00:34:58.052 --> 00:35:00.788
Gonna crush us.
00:35:00.788 --> 00:35:02.223
But if we have these kinds of tools of prayer that strengthen
00:35:02.223 --> 00:35:07.328
Our faith, then we can actually grow from these stressful
00:35:07.328 --> 00:35:10.965
Situations, right?
00:35:10.965 --> 00:35:12.333
Holley: so a simple prayer that you could pray into that when
00:35:12.333 --> 00:35:14.302
You think i can't handle this is just, god, give me the wisdom to
00:35:14.302 --> 00:35:18.706
Know what is mine to do today.
00:35:18.706 --> 00:35:20.808
I release everything and everyone else to you.
00:35:20.808 --> 00:35:24.612
And so it's accepting of responsibility, and it's
00:35:24.612 --> 00:35:27.281
Releasing of everything and everyone else into god's hands.
00:35:27.281 --> 00:35:32.186
And the reality is we don't have it in us to handle everything,
00:35:32.186 --> 00:35:36.257
But we have jesus in us, and he is enough to handle everything.
00:35:36.257 --> 00:35:40.561
Kirk: oh, that is so good, that is so good.
00:35:40.561 --> 00:35:44.532
One of the things you talk about in your book, too, is how you
00:35:44.532 --> 00:35:47.201
Encourage people to exchange their worries for the peace
00:35:47.201 --> 00:35:52.006
Of god.
00:35:52.006 --> 00:35:53.374
So, what does that mean?
00:35:53.374 --> 00:35:54.709
And what does that exchange look like?
00:35:54.709 --> 00:35:56.210
Holley: yeah, i think it's first acknowledging our fear, anxiety,
00:35:56.210 --> 00:35:59.447
Worry, just saying, god, i'm scared, i'm upset, i'm confused,
00:35:59.447 --> 00:36:03.884
Whatever it is we're experiencing and being honest
00:36:03.884 --> 00:36:07.255
About that, getting any support we need with it, and then
00:36:07.255 --> 00:36:10.024
Saying, god, what do you have for me instead?
00:36:10.024 --> 00:36:13.160
If i'm experiencing worry, will you bring me your peace?
00:36:13.160 --> 00:36:16.030
If i'm experiencing fear, will you bring me security?
00:36:16.030 --> 00:36:19.233
If i'm experiencing anxiety, will you give me what i need to
00:36:19.233 --> 00:36:22.803
Go through this situation?
00:36:22.803 --> 00:36:24.505
So it's just realizing that we can bring everything to him and
00:36:24.505 --> 00:36:27.808
Ask him for what we need in return.
00:36:27.808 --> 00:36:31.178
Kirk: you also say in your book that research has shown that
00:36:31.178 --> 00:36:34.148
Writing down our anxious thoughts can help.
00:36:34.148 --> 00:36:37.551
First of all, does that square with scripture?
00:36:37.551 --> 00:36:40.321
And do you think it's true?
00:36:40.321 --> 00:36:41.889
Holley: i do think it squares for scripture because of
00:36:41.889 --> 00:36:44.892
The psalms.
00:36:44.892 --> 00:36:46.227
That's basically a lot of psalms is david saying like here's what
00:36:46.227 --> 00:36:49.363
I'm dealing with, i'm gonna put it out there in front of god.
00:36:49.363 --> 00:36:53.000
And i think writing it down is sort of the monster under the
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:56.304
Bed for adults.
00:36:56.304 --> 00:36:57.905
You know, our kids get scared because they're like there's a
00:36:57.905 --> 00:37:00.074
Monster under the bed, and when an adult takes a flashlight and
00:37:00.074 --> 00:37:03.210
Shines it under there, and it's actually a teddy bear, then
00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:05.713
They're like, oh, okay, i can go to sleep.
00:37:05.713 --> 00:37:08.182
So our fears, when we don't look directly at them, are like that
00:37:08.182 --> 00:37:12.320
Monster under the bed.
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:13.688
They're just sort of vague, and we're anxious, and we don't know
00:37:13.688 --> 00:37:15.723
Why, and we're not sure what to do with them, and we just ignore
00:37:15.723 --> 00:37:18.526
Them and they get bigger and bigger and bigger, but if we
00:37:18.526 --> 00:37:21.095
Stop and say, god, let's look at this together, it's like shining
00:37:21.095 --> 00:37:24.098
That flashlight, and you're like, okay, yes, the situation
00:37:24.098 --> 00:37:27.201
Of my life is hard and scary, but it's not impossible, it's
00:37:27.201 --> 00:37:31.105
Not as big as i feel like it is, and i can do this with jesus and
00:37:31.105 --> 00:37:36.010
The support of people that i love in my life.
00:37:36.010 --> 00:37:38.412
So it just lets us get a clear view of what we're actually
00:37:38.412 --> 00:37:41.615
Dealing with so that we can get the resources we need.
00:37:41.615 --> 00:37:44.952
Kirk: this is so important.
00:37:44.952 --> 00:37:46.287
I love it.
00:37:46.287 --> 00:37:47.655
I wanna drill down even deeper on all of these things with
00:37:47.655 --> 00:37:49.256
Practical strategies that we can use.
00:37:49.256 --> 00:37:51.592
After the break, holley is gonna share more about the power of
00:37:51.592 --> 00:37:54.595
Prayer and scripture when it comes to seeking peace in the
00:37:54.595 --> 00:37:57.798
Middle of stressful situations.
00:37:57.798 --> 00:37:59.700
Stay with us.
00:37:59.700 --> 00:38:01.702
[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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Kirk: welcome back, we're talking with holley gerth on
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"prayers for peace of mind."
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Holley, in your book, you give people specific prayers to deal
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With specific worries.
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Can you walk us through how your book functions and how someone
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Might find the right prayer?
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Holley: yeah, so there are a variety of topics addressed,
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Because we have many different fears.
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So each section has a scripture, because we want to start with
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Truth and a devotional thought to kind of reorient us to god's
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Ways of thinking, and then a specific prayer that you can
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Pray for yourself, that you can pray for other people.
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You could do this as a morning routine, as a midday break in
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The evening, or just pick up the book when you're feeling anxious
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And look at the contents and say this is what i'm feeling
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Stressed about.
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I'm gonna pause and say this probably 30-second to 1-minute
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Prayer just to realign my heart so that i can move forward.
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Kirk: a minute ago you prayed a sample type of prayer that was
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Really moving.
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I mean, it impacted me just as you were rehearsing it.
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Are there some specific prayers in the book that you can think
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Of right now that have been particularly meaningful to
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People or that have been particularly meaningful to you?
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Holley: yeah, i think the one that i shared is probably the
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Top one, just that, jesus, give me the wisdom to know what's
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Mine to do today.
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I release everything and everyone to you.
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And john eldridge calls that benevolent detachment.
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And so there's some other prayers in the book that do that
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As well, but it's just the idea that each day we need to bring
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All of ourselves, all of our people, all of our life
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Circumstances to god and say i release this to you, because
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It's too much for me to carry, and i receive what i need from
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You in return.
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And so a lot of the prayers are about that, it's about just
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Remembering our place and god's place and letting him have what
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Is too heavy for any of us to carry.
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Kirk: what do you hope that people will discover about god's
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Character through reading your book?
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Holley: i would say that peace is his endgame for us.
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You know, if you look at the arch of scripture, we start in
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Eden where there is peace, we lose it, so god creates
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A promised land where there is peace, and then we lose it.
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So he creates a temple where he dwells with his people that is
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Reminiscent of eden.
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That gets messed up too, so he sends jesus, who goes to the
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Garden of gethsemane, which is an echo of eden, to bring peace.
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And then in revelation, we see we are brought back to a place
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That is similar to eden where there is eternal peace.
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And so peace is woven throughout our story, and the actual word
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For it is shalom, which is a peace so deep we can't even
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Translate it into english.
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And so it gets translated peace, but it's complete well-being
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Rooted in relationship, first with god, then with each other,
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Then with ourselves.
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And so i love that, that god is always moving us toward peace,
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And it is a peace so much bigger than we can even explain with
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One word.
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And so that is a beautiful thing to know that that is our heart
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For us.
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In the beginning and the middle and the end, it's peace.
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Kirk: i have a wild, maybe esoteric thought when you just
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Said that, define shalom peace again.
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You said it's a deep peace.
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Holley: yeah, it's complete wellbeing.
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Kirk: complete wellbeing rooted in relationship, and it makes me
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Think that, you know, i don't think god is ever stressed
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Or worried.
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I don't think he's ever experiencing those kinds of
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Things like we do.
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Christ in the garden of gethsemane and perhaps on the
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Cross, abandoned by god, experienced some of that, but
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Could it be true that god is also longing for a complete
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Shalom wholeness and healing of the relationship between him and
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His creation, which is not yet fully developed because sin is
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Not fully rooted out of the human heart?
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And through the redemptive process of history, eventually
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We come to a place where we have total healing, total wholeness,
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Free of sin, rooted in relationship, and so we're not
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Only longing for shalom, i think god is longing for shalom.
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Holley: absolutely, that is his deepest desire.
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Kirk: and that, again, is not to say god's ever stressed out,
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Because he knows what he's doing and he's sovereign, but the
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Complete healing of all things is a process that's
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Still underway.
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Holley: yeah, the new heaven and the new earth, that's the end of
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The story.
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Kirk: you state in your book that when we feel that life is
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On hold, we can trust god is working while we're waiting,
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Because trust is not an emotion, trust is a decision.
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Unpack that for us.
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Holley: yeah, to me that's reassuring, because i wanna say
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I trust god and feel it immediately, but that usually
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Doesn't happen.
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Usually i'm still concerned or anxious or there's a lot of
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Emotion going on, so just knowing i can say, god, i feel
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All this, and i trust you.
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And that is what we see a lot in the psalms where david's like
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All this is going on, i have a lot of feelings about it, and
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God, i trust you.
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And so that just relieves us of guilt and shame we might feel if
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We can't emotionally get to a place where we already
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Are spiritually.
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God understands that, and it's okay to just keep saying i trust
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You, and i feel this.
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I trust you, and i feel that.
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I trust you, and i know you will get me through this.
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Kirk: that is exactly what i think of when i think of david
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In the psalms or habakkuk the prophet who would look at his
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Surroundings and say i don't understand.
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Why do you let the wicked prosper?
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Am i doing all of this righteousness for nothing?
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These people just strut around, and they don't have the diseases
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And the calamity that the good guys have.
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And then at the end he says yet--and like job, even though
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You slay me, yet still will i trust you, because you set the
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Planets in their orbit around the sun, you hung the stars.
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Who am i to question you?
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And at the end of the day we've got to trust, no matter how we
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Feel in the moment, we've got to let truth drive us, we've got to
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Let god's word and his promises steer us.
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Emotion is gasoline that makes us go faster, and it, you know,
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Makes it exciting, and that peace is something that comes
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After we trust the lord.
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Holley: yeah, i like to say emotions make good messengers
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And bad bosses, so they tell us important things about our
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Lives, that something we love is at risk, that we're going
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Through something difficult, that something is happening in
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Our lives that's worthy of paying attention to, but they
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Don't make good bosses.
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They tell us do this, do that, and like you said, we ultimately
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Need to turn back to god and say all right, i'm feeling this, but
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I'm gonna follow you.
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Kirk: okay, so prayer is powerful, and your book is
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Filled with them, specifically tailored to individual worries
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And concerns.
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What else, in addition to prayer, make for good tactics to
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Deal with worry and anxiety.
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Holley: well, i think paying attention to the physical parts
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Of who we are.
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So pausing and saying if i am anxious, do i actually need a
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Nap or a snack or a hug or a deep breath?
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Kirk: right, sometimes it's that simple.
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Or stop having so many red bulls and candy bars.
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Holley: yes, so asking what does my body need right now?
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What's the physical aspect of that?
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And what's one small thing i can do to help physically, which
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Might just be taking a deep breath, then saying, okay, what
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Do i need relationally?
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Am i isolated?
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Have i been disconnected from my people?
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Can i take one relational step like texting a friend, reaching
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Out for help in some way?
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And then what do i need spiritually and pausing and
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Saying, even a breath prayer, like a one-sentence prayer if
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That's all you can manage, and so i think it's really about
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Remembering that we are holistic beings, and we can tend to wanna
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Just do the spiritual part and neglect the rest, but i love
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That we have a god who after the showdown with the prophets of
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Baal, elijah is exhausted and anxious and overwhelmed, and
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God's like you need a nap and a snack.
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Like, he treats him like a toddler in this gentle,
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Loving way.
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He says it's okay, like, i know what's really going on here.
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Like these big feelings you're having are really about you
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Being human, and i get that.
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And jesus gets it, because he was human.
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And so pausing and asking in the different areas of our lives
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What's one small step i can take right now?
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And then take one more, and that often will move us gently out of
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That place of anxiety and fear.
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Kirk: what encouragement can you give people who are praying that
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God would take away their anxiety and feel like he's not
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Answering them?
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Holley: yeah, i would say what resources are available?
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Sometimes we say, god, i just want you to rescue me from this
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Anxiety, and he may be saying it's time to talk to
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Your doctor.
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It's time to talk to a trusted counselor.
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It's time to let your best friend or your spouse know that
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You're having a hard time.
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What resources has he provided around you?
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It's like sitting in front of a plate of food and saying, god,
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I'm hungry.
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You know, it's up to us to say anxiety is part of who i am as a
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Human, and so that means that i need to look at what resources
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God has placed in my life.
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And the answer to prayer might be right in front of me if i'm
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Just willing to receive that help.
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And that's okay.
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That is an act of courage and vulnerability and faith to say
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I'm gonna get whatever help i need to get this under control,
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Knowing that god loves me in the midst of it.
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Kirk: you know, that reminds me that sometimes we
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Over-spiritualize and etherealize things with god, and
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We say, lord, just take this away from me, you know?
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Like there's some sort of magic pixie dust that's just gonna
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Fall down when jesus came in a human body, and the incarnation
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Is one of the things that demonstrates to us that we
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Actually live in a physical world, and sometimes god's help
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Comes from the resources that he's given to us, just like
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You said.
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It reminds me of that funny joke of the guy who, that the
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Floodwaters are rising on his house, and he's on the roof and
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A boat comes up and says, hey, i've come to save you, and he's
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Like, no, no, no, god's--i've already prayed, god's gonna
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Save me.
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And then somebody else comes in a helicopter and says grab the
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Rope, and he's like, no, no, no, god's gonna save me.
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And then all of a sudden the guy finds himself in heaven, and he
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Says, "lord, why didn't you save me?"
00:48:49.449 --> 00:48:50.784
He says, "what do you mean?
00:48:50.784 --> 00:48:52.152
I sent you a boat, i sent you a helicopter."
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And sometimes we just need to look right in front of us at
00:48:53.587 --> 00:48:55.789
These resources.
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Or i like what you said earlier, maybe realize that you haven't
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Been getting enough sleep and you just need a nap, or maybe
00:49:00.193 --> 00:49:02.462
You're not eating enough and you need a snack, or maybe you're
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Doom scrolling on your phone, and that's why you're filled
00:49:05.465 --> 00:49:07.934
With anxiety, and you need to put down the tech and just go
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Get out in nature and remember that god is still in his heaven.
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Holley: and that really brings us full circle back to that
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Prayer of, god, give me the wisdom to know what is mine to
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Do today, because there are probably small steps we can take
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:24.084
Today to deal with our anxiety and our fear and our worry, and
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Those may look very different for each of us, and then
00:49:27.521 --> 00:49:30.724
Trusting that as we do what we can, god will do what only he
00:49:30.724 --> 00:49:35.395
Can too, that he will partner with us in that process and lead
00:49:35.395 --> 00:49:39.332
Us into that peace.
00:49:39.332 --> 00:49:40.667
That is his heart for us now and forever.
00:49:40.667 --> 00:49:44.271
Kirk: and maybe it's just having a conversation like this like
00:49:44.271 --> 00:49:49.810
We're having with a friend, because so much peace can just
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Come from knowing that we're not alone.
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Holley: absolutely.
00:49:55.348 --> 00:49:56.683
Kirk: holley, thank you so much for coming on "takeaways" and
00:49:56.683 --> 00:49:58.652
Sharing all of this with us, and i can't wait for people to read
00:49:58.652 --> 00:50:01.088
Your book.
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Holley: thanks again for having me.
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Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's "takeaways."
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[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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Kirk: it was great talking with megan and holley today about how
00:50:19.940 --> 00:50:23.210
To handle times of worry and anxiety in a god-honoring way.
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We live in a culture that runs fast, worries hard, and strives
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Endlessly, yet we still feel restless.
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Life with jesus offers another way.
00:50:35.188 --> 00:50:37.524
Megan reminded us that trust, peace, and joy can be ours, even
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In loss, uncertainty, and daily pressure.
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Let's review today's takeaways.
00:50:45.265 --> 00:50:48.235
Trust the one who holds it all.
00:50:48.235 --> 00:50:51.104
Jesus modeled rest, unhurried, unworried, and fully trusting
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His father, just like we're told in proverbs 3:5-6.
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After losing her husband, philippians 1:21, to live is
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Christ and to die is gain took on new meaning for her.
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Living is christ starts with honesty before god.
00:51:10.957 --> 00:51:14.661
She said prayer isn't a place to be good, it's a place to be
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Honest, and that god meets us where we are, and change begins
00:51:18.265 --> 00:51:23.737
When we bring him our authentic selves.
00:51:23.737 --> 00:51:27.507
Live relaxed in an anxious world.
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Anxiety is often a signal, so rather than praying it away
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Quickly, ask god what are you showing me?
00:51:35.015 --> 00:51:38.852
Megan warns against the sanctification gap between where
00:51:38.852 --> 00:51:43.190
We think we should be and where we are, which can lead to
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Striving or despair and reminds us that jesus is the one who
00:51:47.427 --> 00:51:52.299
Closes that gap and that god's good is about shaping us into
00:51:52.299 --> 00:51:56.503
His son's image, not simply making life comfortable.
00:51:56.503 --> 00:52:01.074
Holley echoed that call to come to god as we are, especially in
00:52:01.074 --> 00:52:05.178
Anxious moments.
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Engage the healing power of scripture.
00:52:07.414 --> 00:52:11.151
Do not fear is actually an invitation to draw near to god,
00:52:11.151 --> 00:52:16.022
Not a command from god to suppress emotion.
00:52:16.022 --> 00:52:19.960
Scripture anchors us to god's character.
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:23.263
It helps us to face fear until fear loses its power.
00:52:23.263 --> 00:52:27.734
Trust is a choice.
00:52:27.734 --> 00:52:29.903
You say, god, i feel this, and yet i still trust you.
00:52:29.903 --> 00:52:34.641
Overcome anxiety with honest prayer.
00:52:34.641 --> 00:52:38.144
It's true we were never meant to handle everything alone, and
00:52:38.144 --> 00:52:41.081
Prayer shifts the weight.
00:52:41.081 --> 00:52:43.250
It's saying, god, give me wisdom for what's mine today so i can
00:52:43.250 --> 00:52:47.587
Release the rest to you.
00:52:47.587 --> 00:52:50.357
That's all for this episode of "takeaways," thanks
00:52:50.357 --> 00:52:52.525
For watching.
00:52:52.525 --> 00:52:53.860
And if you've enjoyed this show, don't forget to set your dvr so
00:52:53.860 --> 00:52:56.596
You never miss an episode.
00:52:56.596 --> 00:52:58.431
And of course, you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:52:58.431 --> 00:53:01.635
Searching for "takeaways" on tbn+ or by visiting the kirk
00:53:01.635 --> 00:53:06.106
Cameron on tbn youtube channel.
00:53:06.106 --> 00:53:08.675
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:53:08.675 --> 00:53:12.545
[music]
00:53:12.545 --> 00:53:12.545

Megan Fate Marshman & Holly Gerth: Entrusting our Worries to God’s Sovereignty | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

September 15, 2025 | 55:2

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