Robert P. George & Steve Deace: Standing Firm on God’s Truth in a Counter Culture World | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

September 22, 2025 | 54:32

Kirk Cameron is joined by Professor Robert P. George and broadcaster Steve Deace discussing how to stand firm on Biblical truth in a counter-culture world.

#Author #Culture #Courage #Strength #Faith #Perseverance #PersonalStory #SeekGod #TrustGod #Education #Truth #Boldness

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Robert P. George & Steve Deace: Standing Firm on God’s Truth in a Counter Culture World | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | September 22, 2025

Kirk cameron: do you realize that there's a cultural movement
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Happening in our world today?
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For example, our children may now look at the symbol of the
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Rainbow and associate it with gay pride rather than the
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Promise of god.
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Now more than ever, as christians who know the truth of
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God and his word, we should gently but boldly speak out
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About god's love for us, his attributes, his promises, and
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His truth.
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Today we're talking with two guests who are doing just that.
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Professor robert p. george from princeton university and
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Broadcaster steve deace will share with us ways to seek and
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Stand on god's truth and share it with others, coming up
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On "takeaways."
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Robert p. george: it's because man, human beings, are made in
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The image of god that our founding fathers said, "we hold
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These truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."
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Steve deace: there's an entirely different ecosystem online based
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On identity and the affirmation of identity that they are living
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In that is separate from you at the dinner table,
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Separate from you in church.
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♪♪♪
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Kirk: my first guest is professor robert p. george.
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He's an american legal scholar, political philosopher, and
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Public intellectual who serves as the sixth mccormick professor
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Of jurisprudence at princeton university.
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The author of numerous publications, his most recent
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Book talks about law and morality in our culture.
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It's called "seeking truth and speaking truth."
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Robert, thanks so much for joining me on "takeaways."
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Robert: it is a pleasure to be here.
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Thank you, brother kirk.
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Kirk: well, before we talk about your book, i'm intrigued by a
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Movement that you have started called fidelity month.
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What is that all about?
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Robert: well, fidelity month, which we celebrate in the month
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Of june, is a month that we dedicate ourselves or rededicate
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Ourselves to fidelity to god, fidelity to our spouses and
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Families, and fidelity to our country and communities.
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Now, why do i think we need a month dedicated to that?
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For this reason: all the polling data show that americans' belief
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In the importance of religion, in the importance of family, and
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In the importance of patriotism--the belief has
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Diminished very significantly over the past decade or decade
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And a half.
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And that's troubling and worrying because it was that
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Shared set of beliefs in god, in family, in country that were the
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Glue that bound americans together despite our many, many,
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Many differences--political differences, religious
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Differences, cultural differences--over many,
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Many years.
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We rely on those values as the sources of our strength and of
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Our unity, and if they're lost, then what will be the sources of
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Our strength and unity?
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We don't have strength and unity in a common race.
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We're many different races.
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Common ethnicity, many different ethnicities.
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Common religious denomination, we're protestant, catholic,
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Jewish, hindu these days, buddhists from eastern
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Traditions, and so forth.
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So what's gonna bind us together as a country if we lose those
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Common values that used to be shared across the races, across
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The ethnicities, across the different religious divisions.
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So it's important that we get them back, and that's what
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Fidelity month is all about.
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It's reminding ourselves and calling our fellow citizens back
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To the values that once were and can yet be again the sources of
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Our unity and strength as americans.
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Kirk: i am so on board with this and agree with you.
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I've done my best to try to figure out what went wrong,
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What happened?
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And i made a documentary, and i studied the pilgrims and went
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Back to this monument that most people have never heard of.
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It's sitting in plymouth, massachusetts, hidden in a
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Forest of trees, and it spells out what i think is the secret
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Sauce recipe of our forefathers and foremothers, and it was
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Biblical faith expressed through a biblical morality, and they
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Then showed how that became the basis for their civil laws.
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That was then passed on to the next generation through
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Christian education and resulted in both internal liberty from
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Sin and then external liberty from tyranny.
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And every one of our founders has said if we don't get back to
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These types of things, or if we ever lose them, i should say,
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We're done for because our constitution is not made for
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Anybody else but a faithful, religious, moral people.
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Robert: kirk, you are there quoting john adams, who
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Expressly said that our constitution, the american
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Constitution, is made only for a moral and religious people and
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Will simply not serve any other kind of people.
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Now, who creates a moral and religious people?
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The government can't dictate that.
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A court can't hand down an edict.
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Corporations can't make it happen through their
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Economic practices.
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No, if we're to be citizens fit for a republican democracy, fit
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For our constitution, we rely for the building of virtue on
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Mom and dad, and grandma and grandpa, and auntie and uncle,
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And pastor and teacher, and coach.
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It's what we sometimes call the institutions of civil society
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That create the virtuous generations that we need to live
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Under our constitution.
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Kirk: oh, we could talk so much about this, you know, and how do
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Mom and dad teach virtue and morality to children?
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Can they do it without faith in god?
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Is it even possible, considering the downward drag
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Of the human heart?
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Robert: here we have george washington to look to.
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And washington said that religion and morality are
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Essential supports to democratic or republican, he favored the
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Word "republican," as did our founder--there are other
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Founders--republican self-government.
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Said it might be that you could have an isolated person who,
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Without faith, nevertheless possessed virtue and did the
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Right thing, but you're not gonna get large
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Numbers of such people.
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The only way you're going to get a virtuous citizenry is if mom
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And dad and grandma and grandpa and the church and the community
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All work together--usually, in the normal case, working
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Through, among others, churches and other religious bodies--to
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Form a generation of children to lead successful lives and be
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Virtuous citizens.
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Kirk: yeah, i think it was attributed to tocqueville,
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Perhaps, who said something about looking for the secret of
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America's genius and power and success, and he found it in the
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Churches of america.
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The pulpits were on fire with righteousness, and that we're
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Great because we're good, and if we ever stop being good and
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Virtuous, we will cease to be great.
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Robert: tocqueville was surprised to find religion
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Flourishing in america and providing such an essential
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Basis for the thing he was really here to study, which
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Was democracy.
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His great multi--two-volume work was called "democracy
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In america."
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Of course, coming from europe, he was accustomed to there being
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Established churches.
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It might be a catholic church, it might be a protestant church,
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Depending on the european nation, but they had established
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Churches, and the king was often the head of the church.
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Well, even in the 19th century, the first part of the 19th
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Century, when europe was in an important period of power and
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Influence in the broader world, he could see that religion was
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Fading in europe, but he came to the united states where there
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Was no established religion, no national church, and what did
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He find?
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Religion flourishing.
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Now, of course, that would strike a european of that era as
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A surprising thing, but he drew the conclusion from it that, if
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You want religion to flourish, then religion's got to be free.
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And if you want a society, a democratic society, to flourish,
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Then you need a vibrant religious life.
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Kirk: yeah, yeah, oh, this is all so exciting, and i believe
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That we can get back to this and that we soon will either
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Experience a great awakening or a rude awakening, depending on
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Which way we go.
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Robert: yeah, i think that's right.
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Kirk: well, by fidelity, i take that to mean loyalty.
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I--honoring these essential founding principles that you're
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Talking about right now.
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Robert: that's exactly right-- being loyal to god, being loyal
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To our spouses and to our families, and being
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Loyal to our country.
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Now, what does that mean concretely?
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Well, let's take the first one, loyalty to god.
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That means putting god first.
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That means doing unto others as we would have them do unto us
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Because that's what jesus tells us to do.
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What does loyalty to spouses and family mean?
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Well, of course, at the very fundamental level, loyalty to
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Spouse means not having affairs, right?
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But that's only the beginning.
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That's not the fullness of loyalty.
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The fullness of loyalty means treating your spouse as someone
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To whom you are in service, someone you serve, that marriage
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Is a vocation, and what does it mean to be a vocation?
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For something to be a vocation means it's a way of serving.
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A husband and a wife in a good, flourishing marriage serve each
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Other and serve the children that come into their lives as
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Gifts from god, and being loyal to family means actually giving
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Yourself, your time--not just your money--your time to your
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Children, not turning them over to the devices to babysit them
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And the video games and all that.
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I mean, you know, there's--a certain amount of that's okay.
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I don't object to it, but if we're using the devices as
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Substitutes for our own time with our children, then we're
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Not being faithful to our families.
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And the same with fidelity to communities.
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What does that mean to our country and to our
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Local communities?
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It means not just--not committing treason, not just not
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Being a spy for an enemy.
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It means actually being a contributing member of the
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Community, fulfilling your civic responsibilities, being engaged
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In civic affairs.
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When it comes to local communities, being engaged as a
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Contributing member.
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So you're not just getting, getting, getting.
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You're also giving, giving, giving.
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Kirk: yeah, right, you've been teaching for 40 years
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At princeton.
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What do you see in your students right now, even in the midst of
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Declining church attendance-- you talked earlier about
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Declining faith or a belief in the need for faith in god.
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What's giving you hope in the students with regards
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To fidelity?
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Robert: well, just at the moment--interestingly, if we'd
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Been having this conversation a year ago, this wouldn't be
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True--but just at the moment, there's been an upward jump in
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Church attendance, and that's being led by young people.
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And it's being led, for the first time in the history of
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Polling, by young men rather than young women.
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Now, that's very interesting, and i'm not sure what's causing
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It or what's going on there.
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There has been a kind of vibe shift.
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People talk about a vibe shift.
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And one of the ways that vibe shift is evident is in a new
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Blip upwards in church attendance.
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We'll have to see if it's sustained, and especially if
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Young men in the leadership positions is sustained, but it's
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A fascinating thing.
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But i'll tell you what really gives me hope, and i've been
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Teaching, as you say, for 44 decades, and here is something
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That has not changed over four decades.
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Over all four of those decades, i have had an extraordinary
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Number of young men and women who have, in the face of all the
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Orthodoxies and doctrines of secular, liberal ideology that
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Dominate the universities, nevertheless been determined
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Truth seekers who won't just take those dogmas as givens, who
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Will question them because they are determined truth seekers--
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And courageous truth speakers, kirk.
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They've been willing to speak up when it's unpopular for the life
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Of the precious child in the womb.
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That's not a popular position at princeton or in the ivy league
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Or in the broader academic world, and yet so many of my
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Students, men and women, have spoken up boldly in defense of
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The unborn child--the same in the defense of marriage as the
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Conjugal union of husband and wife.
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I've had such wonderful students who have spoken up when it was
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Not easy to do, when it was not popular, when it got you called
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Names and vilified and marginalized.
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Nevertheless, they've had the courage, to speak up--the same
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With religious freedom and the rights of conscience.
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Kirk: yeah, well, that's very encouraging.
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That's inspiring to me, and i can't help but wonder if these
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Young people are also seeing the collapse of an ideology that has
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Promised so much and delivered so little with regard to
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Identity, purpose, destiny, all the longings of the human heart,
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And they're coming up with nothing.
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It's like they're bluffing, and they're saying, "wait a minute.
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Maybe we go back to some of the ancient things, the things that
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Made us such a unique and beautiful place in the world
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Here in america."
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I have so much more i want to talk with you about.
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We're gonna go to a break, and we will continue the discussion
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With professor robert after this break, and then later
00:13:32.368 --> 00:13:35.471
Conservative talk show host steve deace will share how he's
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Speaking truth through his new children's book addressing
00:13:38.874 --> 00:13:42.044
Today's cultural issues.
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So stay with us.
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Steve: the story is we're in a generation where there's--the
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Scarcity is of dads who take over the role, that god-given,
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Designed role that they have to step into that breach
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And stand in the gap for their kids.
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♪♪♪
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♪♪♪
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Kirk: welcome back.
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We're talking with professor robert p. george about his book
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"seeking truth and speaking truth."
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Robert, many essays in the book cover topics in
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Political philosophy.
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So, as a believer, am i right to understand that you're
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Recommending that christians embrace the political philosophy
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That founded this country?
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So, in other words, is the constitution biblical and
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Christian in its ideas?
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Robert: the constitution is perfectly consistent with the
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Biblical and christian story.
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And, in fact, there are some aspects of our larger civic
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Project that could only have emerged in a society that had at
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Its foundations the principle of the profound, inherent, and
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Equal dignity of each and every member of the human family,
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Which we get from where?
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We get from genesis 1, where we're told that the human being,
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Man, though mere material stuff, the mere dust of the earth, is
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Nevertheless made in the very image and likeness of the divine
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Creator and ruler of all that is, in the image of god.
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It's because man, human beings, are made in the image of god
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That our founding fathers said, "we hold these truths to be
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Self-evident, that all men are created equal.
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They're endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights,
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And among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit
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Of happiness."
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Where did that come from?
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That came from a basic, biblical proposition--that proposition
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Of the imago dei: man is made in the image and likeness of god.
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Now, i think we should embrace truth wherever we find it.
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And the christian tradition has always embraced
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Truth wherever we find it.
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If you look at the american founding, you'll find that our
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Founders are really shaped by two major streams.
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One is jerusalem, one is the bible, the christian tradition.
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The other is antiquity.
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It's greece and it's rome.
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But in doing that, they're not relativizing or marginalizing
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The christian tradition, because the christian tradition itself
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Had always drawn on the best in philosophy, even if its origins
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Were outside of christianity.
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So you have figures in christian history such as st. augustine
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Drawing on the thought of plato, st. thomas aquinas drawing on
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The thought of aristotle, lots of christian thinkers drawing on
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The thought of cicero, especially in the area of moral
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Philosophy, but wherever you get truth, wherever you find truth--
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In the sciences, in the social sciences, in the humanities--
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Irrespective of the particular religious beliefs or commitments
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Of the person who's proclaiming the truth, if they're speaking
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The truth, we embrace the truth.
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Kirk: yeah, yeah, i love that.
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What do you think about this founding principle that i find
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So intriguing--the fact that the founders limited their own
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Power as the federal government is so unique, right?
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I mean, like, with the president of china and the communist party
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There or north korea or anywhere else--would putin limit his own
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Power and say, "i've got checks and balances, and ultimately i'm
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Held accountable to the people"?
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Robert: let me tell you a story about that, kirk.
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So, when, against all odds, the american revolutionaries
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Prevailed, and i say it was against all odds because this
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Ragtag bunch was up against the greatest military power
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On earth.
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The likely ending to that story was gonna be the revolutionary
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Leaders being hanged.
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But miraculously, they prevailed, but then they
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Suddenly faced the question, okay, we've won our
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Independence, we get to have our own government.
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What type of government shall we set up?
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Now, one problem with setting up a republic was that republics
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Throughout history had always failed.
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And they'd usually fail pretty quickly.
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And when they failed, they almost always collapsed into the
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Worst forms of tyranny.
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And that led to the conclusion that a lot of people embrace
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That, well, human beings just can't govern themselves.
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We can't have republican government.
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The best we can have is a good king.
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So some of our early americans, at the end of the conclusion of
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The successful revolution, said, "well, we've got
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A great person for king.
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He's the ideal king.
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Ideal because he doesn't want to be king."
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You don't get a better king than that.
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That's george washington.
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But washington himself, of course, said, "no, we don't want
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A king, we want a republic, but then how are we going to prevent
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Happening to our republic what has happened to all other
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Republics in history back into antiquity or the middle ages and
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Renaissance or what have you?"
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And that's when men like james madison came up with--drawing on
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Resources from other thinkers-- but taking the lead, men like
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Madison came up with a system of checks on power.
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They said, "if we want a republic to succeed, it can't be
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A pure democracy where we have unchecked power in the people."
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After all, democracy is what murdered socrates in athens.
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You can't just say, "well, if we get such--a
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Democracy, we'll get justice."
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Democracy doesn't guarantee justice.
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What will guarantee or at least prevent the majority of
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Injustices, what will do that is this and this
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Only: accountability.
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And you get accountability only when somebody exercising power
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Is accountable to somebody else, where there are checks
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And balances.
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And so they took a couple of very important steps.
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They designed a system where the national government was a
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Government of delegated and enumerated powers given
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Exercising only the powers specifically delegated to it
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Under the constitution, and the states were governments of
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General jurisdiction exercising plenary authority, what we call
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In the common law tradition police powers, to protect public
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Health, safety, and morals and advance the common good.
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That way, federal power was checked--by state power.
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And even within the national government, they divided power
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Between the three branches.
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We got what's come to be known as the separation of powers, so
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The executive can check the legislative, the legislative can
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Check the executive, the courts play a checking role on both the
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Executive and the legislative.
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So that's, i think, the genius of the american system.
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It's why republican democracy has worked here despite the fact
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That it had failed everywhere else.
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Kirk: in your book "seeking truth and speaking truth," you
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Cover so many different topics that take the philosophy that
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We're talking about and the values, the religion, the faith
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We're talking about, and applying them to culture and
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Looking to see what kind of worlds they build.
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With the supreme court ruling on something, say, like same-sex
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Marriage, that is clearly a departure from some of the
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Values that we're talking about here.
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Do you think that there is hope, and what can we do to begin to
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Change hearts and minds, to begin to nourish god-honoring
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Marriages and families again?
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Robert: well, the supreme court ruling in the same-sex marriage
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Case, which is called the obergefell decision, was a
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Grotesque miscarriage of justice.
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There was absolutely nothing in the constitution requiring
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States to revise or redefine marriage.
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The supreme court there simply usurped the authority of the
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Elected representatives of the people in the state who--in the
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States who had the responsibility and right, power,
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Under our constitution to decide how to define
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Marriage within their jurisdictions.
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Historically, they had all defined it as the conjugal union
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Of husband and wife.
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Now, there was nothing in the constitution to prevent, say, a
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Liberal state from redefining marriage, but there's nothing in
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The constitution--nothing in the text, the logic, the
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Structure, the original understanding--that would
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Require a state--say, louisiana or mississippi or missouri or
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Montana--to redefine marriage.
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So the court grotesquely overstepped its authority there
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Just as it had done earlier in 1973 in roe v. wade.
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What did we do about that case?
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For 49 years-plus, we worked day and night to overturn roe
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V. wade.
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We had many false starts, many failings.
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We were disappointed by many of the supreme court justices whose
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Nominations we in the pro-life movement had supported, but at
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The end of the day, we did prevail.
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Now, that doesn't mean that we have achieved our goal of full,
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Equal protection for the unborn child.
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We still have to fight in the legislatures for that, but at
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Least we remove the constitutional atrocity of roe
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V. wade with enormous effort.
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We have to make the same effort to overturn the obergefell
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Decision, same as we did with roe v. wade, to build the
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Constituencies, to do the work that needs to be done in order
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To get that decision overruled so that we can return the issue
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To where it belongs, and that is the public deliberation of the
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People acting through the normal mechanisms of deliberative
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Democracy under our constitution.
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Kirk: robert, in your book, there's a chapter about
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Alexander solzhenitsyn and his "plea to the west" speech that
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He made at harvard in 1978.
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And in essence, he faulted america for abandoning her own
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Values, her own faith and identity.
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Is there any real hope that we can turn the ship around in 2025
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Or 2026 as america approaches her 250th birthday?
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Robert: absolutely, there's hope.
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It's up to us.
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Will we have the courage, will we have the determination, will
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We have the fidelity to do what needs to be done to turn the
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Ship around?
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There's nothing written in the stars that says we have to be in
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Eternal decline, that we can't turn things around.
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We have free will.
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We can make decisions, we can make bad decisions, and we can
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Make good decisions.
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We can bring up our children with solid values, or we can
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Bring up our children with degraded values.
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That's up to us.
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It's on us.
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And we can't look to other people.
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We can't say, "oh, the politicians should do it, or the
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Religious leaders should do it, or the celebrities should do
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It," or say, "oh, everything's going wrong because the
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Celebrities are so bad."
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Well, a lot of celebrities are pretty bad, you know that--
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Kirk: don't listen to celebrities.
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Robert: but on the other hand, let's stop, you know, with the
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Blame and get about the business of reform.
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And that's a hands-on business.
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It's a retail business.
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And it's not just intellectuals and it's not just preachers and
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It's not just teachers who have this job.
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It's parents and it's grandparents, and it's aunties
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And uncles, and it's moms and dad.
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You know, it's the--it's ordinary people doing the
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Ordinary work of living virtuously, modeling virtue for
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Their children, and transmitting virtue to their children.
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Kirk: i'm so glad to hear you say this because that just
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Resonates in my heart.
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It puts wind in my sails as a father, as a grandfather, and as
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Someone who's out there trying to do things to change hearts
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And minds at libraries or movies or whatever it is.
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So, thank you.
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Robert: oh, you're very welcome, and like me, you're
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A grandfather.
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That means we're invested in our future.
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Kirk: we have skin in the game.
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And we're giving it all we've got.
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Robert: you bet. kirk: thank you.
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Robert: thank you, kirk.
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Kirk: after the break, we'll be joined by steve deace sharing
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How parents can teach their children biblical truth in
00:25:40.323 --> 00:25:43.560
Today's counterculture.
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Don't go away.
00:25:44.928 --> 00:25:46.263
♪♪♪
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♪♪♪
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Kirk: my next guest, steve deace, is the host of the "steve
00:25:57.644 --> 00:26:00.781
Deace show" on blaze tv, where he boldly tackles faith,
00:26:00.781 --> 00:26:04.785
Politics, and culture--the easy topics.
00:26:04.785 --> 00:26:07.888
He's a national speaker, a bestselling author of multiple
00:26:07.888 --> 00:26:10.791
Books, and his latest is a children's book, and it's called
00:26:10.791 --> 00:26:14.428
"richie meets the rainbow."
00:26:14.428 --> 00:26:15.929
Steve, thanks so much for coming on "takeaways."
00:26:15.929 --> 00:26:17.297
Steve: hey, man, it's a pleasure.
00:26:17.297 --> 00:26:18.665
Kirk: now, i'm so excited to be talking with you.
00:26:18.665 --> 00:26:20.100
You're one of my favorite people to listen to with regard to
00:26:20.100 --> 00:26:22.936
Taking the christian, biblical worldview as a lens and then
00:26:22.936 --> 00:26:26.506
Looking at faith and culture.
00:26:26.506 --> 00:26:28.175
And, you know, religion and politics are the two things
00:26:28.175 --> 00:26:30.544
We're not supposed to talk about, didn't you know?
00:26:30.544 --> 00:26:32.979
Steve: well, i think maybe some of us just don't want to have as
00:26:32.979 --> 00:26:35.849
Many friends as other people do, so we major in those topics.
00:26:35.849 --> 00:26:38.652
But the reality is they're the most important topics to talk
00:26:38.652 --> 00:26:41.822
About, which is exactly why the world doesn't
00:26:41.822 --> 00:26:43.523
Want us to talk about them.
00:26:43.523 --> 00:26:44.858
I mean, you hear people say, for example, "well, i mean, what do
00:26:44.858 --> 00:26:48.261
You want is a theocracy."
00:26:48.261 --> 00:26:49.663
Well, the reality is, kirk, every government ever has been
00:26:49.663 --> 00:26:52.399
A theocracy.
00:26:52.399 --> 00:26:53.734
It's just a matter of who's the theo and what he, she, or it
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Demands of us, right?
00:26:56.470 --> 00:26:57.838
There is no secular realm.
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There is nothing off of the jurisdiction of god's providence
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Or his authority.
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And so this idea of secularism and neutral spaces, these are
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All lies that were done with the purpose of us deconstructing our
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Christian belief system to make way for a different religious
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Belief system that would take our place, and that's the
00:27:18.058 --> 00:27:20.460
Culture that we're living in today.
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Kirk: that was so well said.
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I think everybody should just hit rewind on this, go back and
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Listen to it again, or get the transcript and, like, study it
00:27:26.633 --> 00:27:30.737
Because there's so much packed into it.
00:27:30.737 --> 00:27:32.072
Every government is a theocracy.
00:27:32.072 --> 00:27:33.440
I was just having a conversation about this with a friend of mine
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:35.208
Who said, you know, we're not trying to--we've not been given
00:27:35.208 --> 00:27:37.377
A mandate to establish a theocracy here in america.
00:27:37.377 --> 00:27:40.013
And that's exactly what i am wanting to say when the time is
00:27:40.013 --> 00:27:43.717
Right, is that every government is essentially a theocracy, and
00:27:43.717 --> 00:27:47.254
The functioning god of that country is going to be the
00:27:47.254 --> 00:27:51.158
Source from which their laws will flow and their values,
00:27:51.158 --> 00:27:54.528
Their morality, their concept of family, entertainment, and
00:27:54.528 --> 00:27:58.031
Everything else.
00:27:58.031 --> 00:27:59.366
And so it's just a question of which set of values
00:27:59.366 --> 00:28:01.001
Do we want our kids to grow up with?
00:28:01.001 --> 00:28:02.335
Steve: i think when people say that they mean, like, a direct
00:28:02.335 --> 00:28:04.271
Theocracy, where we're,
00:28:04.271 --> 00:28:06.106
You know, having government perform--
00:28:06.106 --> 00:28:07.441
Kirk: and we have prophets that are telling us
00:28:07.441 --> 00:28:09.409
"that's what god says" and those kinds of things.
00:28:09.409 --> 00:28:11.077
Steve: but the reality is every government system has to be
00:28:11.077 --> 00:28:13.547
Based on something, that someone's values are going to be
00:28:13.547 --> 00:28:16.783
Preached and taught and adjudicated by a government.
00:28:16.783 --> 00:28:19.553
So it's just a matter of are they gonna be god ones or
00:28:19.553 --> 00:28:22.055
Godless ones?
00:28:22.055 --> 00:28:23.423
Kirk: yeah, yep, exactly, what made you decide to help parents
00:28:23.423 --> 00:28:28.395
Understand this and teach kids biblical values by writing a
00:28:28.395 --> 00:28:32.666
Children's book that deals with pride month, which happens in
00:28:32.666 --> 00:28:37.571
June every year?
00:28:37.571 --> 00:28:39.239
Steve: well, as you know, i did this before from a darker
00:28:39.239 --> 00:28:42.976
Perspective with "a nefarious plot" and then our
00:28:42.976 --> 00:28:45.745
Movie "nefarious."
00:28:45.745 --> 00:28:47.113
And so we decided this time, let's try something lighter.
00:28:47.113 --> 00:28:50.250
I think humor is actually a very effective tactic.
00:28:50.250 --> 00:28:53.954
And i also think that evil seems so intimidating that we look at
00:28:53.954 --> 00:29:00.494
The emperor in the room completely naked.
00:29:00.494 --> 00:29:03.063
We know the emperor has no clothes.
00:29:03.063 --> 00:29:05.265
But we all look at each other and we're intimidated by the
00:29:05.265 --> 00:29:07.367
Crown, we're intimidated by the scepter, we're intimidated by
00:29:07.367 --> 00:29:10.136
The army that he has around him, and we're thinking we can't
00:29:10.136 --> 00:29:13.039
Speak up, we can't speak out, we're the only ones who are
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.208
Noticing this, we're the only ones who think this, and so
00:29:15.208 --> 00:29:17.811
There'll be a great amount of persecution
00:29:17.811 --> 00:29:20.113
If we stand up to it.
00:29:20.113 --> 00:29:21.448
And it just takes one person to just kind of make fun of the
00:29:21.448 --> 00:29:23.717
Bully and say, "heh, heh, he's naked over there," and then it
00:29:23.717 --> 00:29:26.586
Kind of lightens the mood a little bit and everybody looks
00:29:26.586 --> 00:29:28.755
Around and says, "yeah, that idiot is naked over there.
00:29:28.755 --> 00:29:31.758
What is he doing over there?" okay?
00:29:31.758 --> 00:29:33.293
And i think that we needed a temperature check.
00:29:33.293 --> 00:29:35.795
I think we've gone at the shibboleth of the
00:29:35.795 --> 00:29:37.898
Damned known as pride month.
00:29:37.898 --> 00:29:39.232
I think we've gone at it from every vantage point possible
00:29:39.232 --> 00:29:42.035
Except one: ridicule.
00:29:42.035 --> 00:29:44.504
And i do think, like elijah at mount carmel, taunting the
00:29:44.504 --> 00:29:48.074
Prophets of baal, mocking them.
00:29:48.074 --> 00:29:49.576
"well, where is baal? is he going to the bathroom?
00:29:49.576 --> 00:29:51.511
Is he constipated?
00:29:51.511 --> 00:29:52.846
Can he not show up and perform for all of your cutting and all
00:29:52.846 --> 00:29:55.382
Of your screaming and all of your mantras?"
00:29:55.382 --> 00:29:57.717
And the amount of--and what that did to disarm the jewish
00:29:57.717 --> 00:30:00.654
People that are under this demonic spell of this false god,
00:30:00.654 --> 00:30:03.857
And here's this one prophet of god, elijah, mocking and
00:30:03.857 --> 00:30:06.927
Ridiculing the 500 prophets of baal right to their face--kind
00:30:06.927 --> 00:30:09.696
Of takes the stigma away, the allure, the power of it away and
00:30:09.696 --> 00:30:13.767
Destigmatizes it, demystifies it, and you look around, you're
00:30:13.767 --> 00:30:16.937
Like, "yeah, these idiots are just here cutting themselves,
00:30:16.937 --> 00:30:18.939
Running around, and nothing's happening.
00:30:18.939 --> 00:30:20.373
Why are we listening to these guys?
00:30:20.373 --> 00:30:21.741
Why are we following them the entire time," right?
00:30:21.741 --> 00:30:24.611
And i wanted our little book to kind of do the
00:30:24.611 --> 00:30:26.580
Exact same thing to pride month.
00:30:26.580 --> 00:30:27.914
Kirk: well, i was just reading through the book again earlier,
00:30:27.914 --> 00:30:31.184
And i just, i mean, the pictures in there are just fantastic.
00:30:31.184 --> 00:30:34.321
And when you see little richie, who goes to school, and his
00:30:34.321 --> 00:30:36.656
Teacher is wearing some special colored clothes and got a
00:30:36.656 --> 00:30:41.027
Special fist on his chest or her chest--i can't quite figure out
00:30:41.027 --> 00:30:45.765
If it's a man or a woman, and it rhymes so beautifully, and then
00:30:45.765 --> 00:30:51.237
You teach the biblical meaning of the rainbow
00:30:51.237 --> 00:30:54.941
In a unique kind of way.
00:30:54.941 --> 00:30:56.276
How--what gave you that idea?
00:30:56.276 --> 00:30:58.078
Steve: well, we thought it would be kind of cool, as we were
00:30:58.078 --> 00:31:00.380
Putting the book together, if richie had something at his
00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:03.416
Disposal--because his story is legion in our public schools.
00:31:03.416 --> 00:31:07.253
I go there, i just think i'm gonna learn some skills, and
00:31:07.253 --> 00:31:09.689
Instead i'm accosted by essentially a teacher of a--of
00:31:09.689 --> 00:31:13.893
The doctrines of demons who's here now to indoctrinate me.
00:31:13.893 --> 00:31:16.863
And most of our kids don't have something that richie is able to
00:31:16.863 --> 00:31:19.933
Call out of his bullpen.
00:31:19.933 --> 00:31:21.968
It's called a dad, all right?
00:31:21.968 --> 00:31:23.870
And so as the book unfolds, richie has this secret weapon
00:31:23.870 --> 00:31:26.773
That is a scarce resource in america today.
00:31:26.773 --> 00:31:29.809
He has a dad, and they do this thing where they, like, have
00:31:29.809 --> 00:31:33.046
Dinner and, like, when the children have something to say--
00:31:33.046 --> 00:31:36.950
I know it's weird--dad listens and engages in a thing called a
00:31:36.950 --> 00:31:42.656
Conversation, right, and then richie begins to lay out,
00:31:42.656 --> 00:31:46.026
"hey--" richie, in fact, has-- he's got such respect for his
00:31:46.026 --> 00:31:48.995
Dad that there's an expectation that, if he has a problem, his
00:31:48.995 --> 00:31:53.333
Dad might know the solution, and so he assumes that dad might,
00:31:53.333 --> 00:31:56.736
Like, know stuff, and, like, might have wisdom, right?
00:31:56.736 --> 00:31:59.205
Kirk: imagine that.
00:31:59.205 --> 00:32:00.540
Steve: it's crazy, and so he takes this to his dad, and his
00:32:00.540 --> 00:32:02.842
Dad didn't say, "i'm sorry, kid, i'm doomscrolling.
00:32:02.842 --> 00:32:05.345
You know, pipe down, and talk to you later."
00:32:05.345 --> 00:32:07.447
Kirk: "i'm playing candy crush."
00:32:07.447 --> 00:32:08.782
Steve: yes, yes, in fact, he engaged his child right away,
00:32:08.782 --> 00:32:11.918
Right there at the dinner table, listens to the lies that were
00:32:11.918 --> 00:32:14.754
Spewed at the school system, and then does this thing where he,
00:32:14.754 --> 00:32:17.557
Like, engages and he pulls out-- now, the dad pulls out his
00:32:17.557 --> 00:32:20.360
Secret weapon, the word of god, and he walks his son through the
00:32:20.360 --> 00:32:24.297
True origin of the rainbow, what it really meant, what it was a
00:32:24.297 --> 00:32:26.633
Symbol of--god's judgment but also his grace and mercy,
00:32:26.633 --> 00:32:30.003
Right--to undo the damage that was attempted on his child by
00:32:30.003 --> 00:32:33.907
Our schools.
00:32:33.907 --> 00:32:35.275
And to me, that's--the story isn't the amount of evil that is
00:32:35.275 --> 00:32:39.345
Being taught in our schools.
00:32:39.345 --> 00:32:41.281
There's always going to be evil.
00:32:41.281 --> 00:32:42.882
The enemy is always going to try to co-opt and take over our
00:32:42.882 --> 00:32:45.819
Institutions, kirk.
00:32:45.819 --> 00:32:47.153
The story is we're in a generation where there's--the
00:32:47.153 --> 00:32:49.189
Scarcity is of dads who take over the role--that god-given,
00:32:49.189 --> 00:32:53.193
Designed role that they have-- to step into that breach and
00:32:53.193 --> 00:32:55.962
Stand in the gap for their kids.
00:32:55.962 --> 00:32:57.731
Kirk: i love it because you really are restoring that hero,
00:32:57.731 --> 00:33:01.267
Dad figure back into the minds of children and the minds of
00:33:01.267 --> 00:33:07.741
Parents, and we so desperately need it in a
00:33:07.741 --> 00:33:09.576
Fatherless generation.
00:33:09.576 --> 00:33:12.078
Either they're physically absent or mentally or spiritually
00:33:12.078 --> 00:33:15.548
Absent in the lives of their kids.
00:33:15.548 --> 00:33:18.918
What motivated you also to want to talk not only about pride
00:33:18.918 --> 00:33:22.622
Month, but to really lay down a book that would teach kids about
00:33:22.622 --> 00:33:29.796
Identity and faith?
00:33:29.796 --> 00:33:32.465
Steve: because, ultimately, the reason that you see that lies
00:33:32.465 --> 00:33:35.835
Succeed every single time is an absence of truth.
00:33:35.835 --> 00:33:39.506
And the reality is we have skipped, basically, you know,
00:33:39.506 --> 00:33:42.308
We're--at the time that you and i are having this conversation,
00:33:42.308 --> 00:33:45.779
John macarthur has just passed away, one of the great
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:48.248
Expositors of the generation.
00:33:48.248 --> 00:33:51.184
Well, john macarthur used to be in almost every local pulpit
00:33:51.184 --> 00:33:55.255
In america.
00:33:55.255 --> 00:33:56.623
In somebody's local church, in every city, some variation of
00:33:56.623 --> 00:34:00.426
Him, depending on your tradition,
00:34:00.426 --> 00:34:01.895
Denomination, creeds, et cetera--
00:34:01.895 --> 00:34:03.530
Kirk: preaching the bible.
00:34:03.530 --> 00:34:04.864
Steve: but some version of him existed in almost every major
00:34:04.864 --> 00:34:06.733
Population center in america.
00:34:06.733 --> 00:34:08.535
Now we're all, like, hugely lamenting this loss.
00:34:08.535 --> 00:34:11.471
Like, this is like a loss of the bishop in--of a bishop in the
00:34:11.471 --> 00:34:14.207
Ancient world because we don't have another 15 of these guys,
00:34:14.207 --> 00:34:17.410
Let alone one of them in at least one local church
00:34:17.410 --> 00:34:19.712
Everywhere in america.
00:34:19.712 --> 00:34:21.047
We've skipped an entire generation of discipleship.
00:34:21.047 --> 00:34:24.184
And we have outsourced this discipleship.
00:34:24.184 --> 00:34:26.386
Something will always take its place.
00:34:26.386 --> 00:34:27.954
Nature abhors a vacuum.
00:34:27.954 --> 00:34:29.289
And so it's taken the place of a pastor in the local church and a
00:34:29.289 --> 00:34:31.991
Dad in the home.
00:34:31.991 --> 00:34:33.359
What's taken the place is pop-- pop culture has been, and the
00:34:33.359 --> 00:34:36.062
Government schools have.
00:34:36.062 --> 00:34:37.463
And so, ultimately, you're--you can't replace something
00:34:37.463 --> 00:34:41.034
With nothing.
00:34:41.034 --> 00:34:42.368
And so if we're gonna go after these lies, then they have to be
00:34:42.368 --> 00:34:44.470
Replaced with truth.
00:34:44.470 --> 00:34:46.739
Kirk: so, how can a simple little children's book like
00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:49.309
This, if parents read it to their kids, how can it help them
00:34:49.309 --> 00:34:52.779
To navigate cultural challenges today?
00:34:52.779 --> 00:34:55.582
Steve: well, first and foremost, it is a children's book format,
00:34:55.582 --> 00:34:58.518
But the prime audience for this book are the dads.
00:34:58.518 --> 00:35:01.754
There are two weapons in the current spiritual battle that we
00:35:01.754 --> 00:35:04.490
Have in america today.
00:35:04.490 --> 00:35:06.726
We have two weapons of mass destruction that have largely
00:35:06.726 --> 00:35:09.662
Not been deployed, okay?
00:35:09.662 --> 00:35:12.131
And i'm someone that works full time in politics, brother.
00:35:12.131 --> 00:35:14.734
I can sit here for 45 minutes or three hours.
00:35:14.734 --> 00:35:16.970
We can go over organization.
00:35:16.970 --> 00:35:18.304
We can go over messaging strategy.
00:35:18.304 --> 00:35:19.973
I know all that stuff, you know, stem to stern, but i'm gonna
00:35:19.973 --> 00:35:22.742
Tell you right now: you want to win a spiritual battle, i'll
00:35:22.742 --> 00:35:25.245
Take two things over all of that, right?
00:35:25.245 --> 00:35:27.580
Give me one bold man in a pulpit with his bible open and has the
00:35:27.580 --> 00:35:31.251
Courage of conviction and the holy spirit to tell people what
00:35:31.251 --> 00:35:33.820
It actually says.
00:35:33.820 --> 00:35:35.188
Give me that and then give me a dad in the home, after he's
00:35:35.188 --> 00:35:37.156
Listened to that man in the pulpit, who then takes what he
00:35:37.156 --> 00:35:39.592
Heard and takes that into his home.
00:35:39.592 --> 00:35:41.527
If we did that and we multiplied that house by house and local
00:35:41.527 --> 00:35:44.797
Church by local church, then a lot of the political activism
00:35:44.797 --> 00:35:47.533
That guys like me do for a living and all the planning we
00:35:47.533 --> 00:35:50.003
Do and the whiteboarding we do and all the funding and donor
00:35:50.003 --> 00:35:52.939
Raising we have to do would be largely irrelevant because you
00:35:52.939 --> 00:35:56.009
Have a baseline of truth in the culture that currently does
00:35:56.009 --> 00:35:59.512
Not exist.
00:35:59.512 --> 00:36:00.847
And so this takes us back to basics, all right?
00:36:00.847 --> 00:36:03.483
What does richie--what saves richie from his
00:36:03.483 --> 00:36:05.818
Government school?
00:36:05.818 --> 00:36:07.186
A dad who knows the word, which means someone he--
00:36:07.186 --> 00:36:09.055
Preached it to him and taught it to him, right?
00:36:09.055 --> 00:36:10.390
How can they hear the word if there's no one to
00:36:10.390 --> 00:36:11.858
Preach it to him?
00:36:11.858 --> 00:36:13.192
So a dad who knows the word 'cause someone taught it to
00:36:13.192 --> 00:36:14.928
Him, and now he's gonna teach it to his son.
00:36:14.928 --> 00:36:16.896
That's really--those are really the weapons of mass destruction
00:36:16.896 --> 00:36:19.766
That we have.
00:36:19.766 --> 00:36:21.100
And they've largely been on mothballs, sadly, in our culture
00:36:21.100 --> 00:36:23.069
For about a generation now.
00:36:23.069 --> 00:36:24.470
Kirk: man, that is--that's fire.
00:36:24.470 --> 00:36:27.573
I just love that.
00:36:27.573 --> 00:36:28.942
One of my favorite parts of the book is the very end, where this
00:36:28.942 --> 00:36:32.578
Dad right here is--he loves god, clearly loves his family,
00:36:32.578 --> 00:36:36.549
Loves his country, and it says, "'but that's not all, son.
00:36:36.549 --> 00:36:39.485
I will stand up and fight for what's right.
00:36:39.485 --> 00:36:41.487
I'll fight for you and your generation, both day and night.'
00:36:41.487 --> 00:36:45.058
A good dad is something richie wished more kids had."
00:36:45.058 --> 00:36:48.661
It really is empowering to dads.
00:36:48.661 --> 00:36:52.732
Steve: i think that a lot of men today are dying under the
00:36:52.732 --> 00:36:59.372
Bigotry of low expectations, and they feel very
00:36:59.372 --> 00:37:02.642
Empty and are self-medicating.
00:37:02.642 --> 00:37:04.210
I know that was my story before my conversion.
00:37:04.210 --> 00:37:06.145
That's exactly--i mean, i lived this.
00:37:06.145 --> 00:37:07.547
I lived this life.
00:37:07.547 --> 00:37:08.915
I mean, kirk, when i--when we brought our first-born daughter
00:37:08.915 --> 00:37:10.984
Home--it's funny now, she's married, works at the local
00:37:10.984 --> 00:37:13.486
Christian radio station and married to a soldier, and they
00:37:13.486 --> 00:37:15.355
Have our first granddaughter-- but when she was brought home, i
00:37:15.355 --> 00:37:19.025
Mean, i brought her home into my room of perpetual adolescence,
00:37:19.025 --> 00:37:22.395
Where i kept my porn collection, right, where i kept the relics
00:37:22.395 --> 00:37:25.865
And idols of the spirit of the age that i was worshiping at
00:37:25.865 --> 00:37:28.401
That period of time, all right?
00:37:28.401 --> 00:37:29.836
So i understand this.
00:37:29.836 --> 00:37:31.204
I understand the empty calories that this culture serves up
00:37:31.204 --> 00:37:35.108
Without the work of the holy spirit in your life.
00:37:35.108 --> 00:37:37.543
And what's missing, and what's missing in a lot of our
00:37:37.543 --> 00:37:39.746
Churches, are the men.
00:37:39.746 --> 00:37:41.114
A lot of the churches, i think, on purpose have overlooked the
00:37:41.114 --> 00:37:43.349
Men, why?
00:37:43.349 --> 00:37:44.684
Because at the end of this book.
00:37:44.684 --> 00:37:46.052
When you activate and engage and really reach the men, the men
00:37:46.052 --> 00:37:48.988
Will now want to do stuff, and they'll say, "you know, we could
00:37:48.988 --> 00:37:51.724
Just do stuff now.
00:37:51.724 --> 00:37:53.059
We don't have to just sit here when a guy is taking our
00:37:53.059 --> 00:37:55.061
Daughter's place in the swim meet.
00:37:55.061 --> 00:37:56.496
We can go down there and peaceably
00:37:56.496 --> 00:37:58.031
Stop this from happening.
00:37:58.031 --> 00:37:59.365
We can do stuff.
00:37:59.365 --> 00:38:00.700
We don't just sit here when the kid brings home doctrines of
00:38:00.700 --> 00:38:02.835
Demons and it's called the curriculum.
00:38:02.835 --> 00:38:04.203
We can go to the school board meeting.
00:38:04.203 --> 00:38:05.538
A group of us guys can go there.
00:38:05.538 --> 00:38:06.906
We can actually do stuff."
00:38:06.906 --> 00:38:08.341
And i think a lot of our churches, frankly, today don't
00:38:08.341 --> 00:38:10.176
Want to do stuff.
00:38:10.176 --> 00:38:11.844
I think that they want to do building campaigns and they want
00:38:11.844 --> 00:38:15.081
To build monasteries in the suburbs, but when they're soul
00:38:15.081 --> 00:38:18.684
Assaulting our children with drag queen storytime hour at the
00:38:18.684 --> 00:38:21.154
Local library across the street, they want to be silent and be
00:38:21.154 --> 00:38:24.223
Nowhere to be found.
00:38:24.223 --> 00:38:25.558
Kirk: wow, i want to get into more of this, and we're going to
00:38:25.558 --> 00:38:28.728
Talk more with steve about the social and cultural issues of
00:38:28.728 --> 00:38:32.165
Today and how we as families can stand firm in our faith
00:38:32.165 --> 00:38:36.235
And do it with grace.
00:38:36.235 --> 00:38:37.570
We'll be right back.
00:38:37.570 --> 00:38:38.905
♪♪♪
00:38:38.905 --> 00:38:42.575
♪♪♪
00:38:43.516 --> 00:38:47.187
Kirk: we're talking with veteran political strategist and
00:38:50.690 --> 00:38:53.560
Bestselling author steve deace.
00:38:53.560 --> 00:38:56.830
Steve, as a nationally recognized voice and thought
00:38:56.830 --> 00:39:02.102
Leader in the areas of culture and politics, how does that
00:39:02.102 --> 00:39:06.940
Influence the content here in "richie meets the rainbow"?
00:39:06.940 --> 00:39:12.045
Steve: i think there are--i think what we tried to embody in
00:39:12.045 --> 00:39:14.948
"richie meets the rainbow" are what jesus said are the two
00:39:14.948 --> 00:39:18.084
Greatest commandments, which, as you know, are just a summation
00:39:18.084 --> 00:39:20.887
Of the tablets that moses brought down from mount
00:39:20.887 --> 00:39:22.722
Sinai, right?
00:39:22.722 --> 00:39:24.090
So i think a lot of the modern church, kirk, has taken that
00:39:24.090 --> 00:39:26.926
First greatest commandment and ejected it.
00:39:26.926 --> 00:39:29.295
And the first greatest commandment is love the lord
00:39:29.295 --> 00:39:30.730
Your god with the heart, soul, strength, and mind, all right?
00:39:30.730 --> 00:39:32.198
That's the vertical relationship between us and god, right?
00:39:32.198 --> 00:39:35.668
And i think a lot--i think we've kind of set that
00:39:35.668 --> 00:39:37.537
Aside and made "love your neighbor as you
00:39:37.537 --> 00:39:38.872
Love yourself" the greatest command.
00:39:38.872 --> 00:39:40.206
Kirk: yeah, and then redefined the word "love."
00:39:40.206 --> 00:39:42.409
Steve: correct, because that then puts your neighbor, that
00:39:42.409 --> 00:39:45.045
Then puts the world system in the place of "that's the thing
00:39:45.045 --> 00:39:47.781
We cannot offend," okay?
00:39:47.781 --> 00:39:50.150
And so you come to this fork in the road.
00:39:50.150 --> 00:39:51.551
I've had to do this in politics many times.
00:39:51.551 --> 00:39:53.153
I had to say, no, i'm not gonna support that.
00:39:53.153 --> 00:39:55.088
No, i can't do that.
00:39:55.088 --> 00:39:56.456
And it's nothing personal.
00:39:56.456 --> 00:39:57.791
The word of god just doesn't let me do that.
00:39:57.791 --> 00:39:59.159
It's not a question of can i do some or will i do something?
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:01.694
I can't. i don't have permission.
00:40:01.694 --> 00:40:03.663
My life is not my own.
00:40:03.663 --> 00:40:04.998
I was bought at a high price, right?
00:40:04.998 --> 00:40:07.100
And so what our book wants to do is, first and foremost, is god's
00:40:07.100 --> 00:40:10.070
Word and god's character has to be restored as number one,
00:40:10.070 --> 00:40:13.239
All right?
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:14.574
And then number two, our book tries to use humor as a way to
00:40:14.574 --> 00:40:18.912
Demonstrate that this doesn't always have to be a bony-finger
00:40:18.912 --> 00:40:21.381
Point, it doesn't always have to be a furrowed brow, it doesn't
00:40:21.381 --> 00:40:23.850
Always have to be surly, but here's the thing: sometimes it
00:40:23.850 --> 00:40:25.919
Does need to be.
00:40:25.919 --> 00:40:27.253
And i think that we have spent way too much time in this era
00:40:27.253 --> 00:40:30.090
Being our own tone police.
00:40:30.090 --> 00:40:32.058
You know, years ago at the high school, my son ended up
00:40:32.058 --> 00:40:35.128
Graduating from des moines christian.
00:40:35.128 --> 00:40:36.496
It's a great school back home in des moines.
00:40:36.496 --> 00:40:37.997
So, shout out to them.
00:40:37.997 --> 00:40:39.332
And they had me come in and address the senior class
00:40:39.332 --> 00:40:40.900
One year.
00:40:40.900 --> 00:40:42.268
And i asked the senior class, i said, how many of you believe
00:40:42.268 --> 00:40:45.071
It's not what you say but how you say it?
00:40:45.071 --> 00:40:47.207
How many hands do you think went up?
00:40:47.207 --> 00:40:48.575
Every single one, all right?
00:40:48.575 --> 00:40:50.210
So i separated the boys and the girls, and i said--i went to
00:40:50.210 --> 00:40:52.278
The girls and i said, "you know what?
00:40:52.278 --> 00:40:53.646
Let's test your theory, okay?
00:40:53.646 --> 00:40:56.316
Ten years from now, you're married, you have a couple of
00:40:56.316 --> 00:40:58.518
Kids, and your husband comes home from work, he says, 'oh,
00:40:58.518 --> 00:41:00.920
Honey, is this my favorite meal?
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:03.189
That smells great.
00:41:03.189 --> 00:41:04.524
Look how well our kids mind, and they're doing their homework,
00:41:04.524 --> 00:41:06.726
And you're just as beautiful as the day i married you, but you
00:41:06.726 --> 00:41:09.195
Need to know this really attractive secretary at work,
00:41:09.195 --> 00:41:12.699
I've been unfaithful with her to you.
00:41:12.699 --> 00:41:15.001
But nevertheless, did i tell you how pretty you looked in
00:41:15.001 --> 00:41:16.736
That dress?'"
00:41:16.736 --> 00:41:18.338
I said--it got really silent in the in the room, kirk, and i
00:41:18.338 --> 00:41:20.907
Said, "what are you upset for?
00:41:20.907 --> 00:41:22.275
He said it really nice, he uplifted you, he, you know,
00:41:22.275 --> 00:41:26.713
Affirmed you, so you should be okay because it doesn't matter
00:41:26.713 --> 00:41:29.949
What we say, but how we say it, right, right?"
00:41:29.949 --> 00:41:32.886
That has become complete and total self-policing,
00:41:32.886 --> 00:41:36.022
Self-editing garbage in our era.
00:41:36.022 --> 00:41:38.191
Now, that doesn't mean we, you know, should necessarily become
00:41:38.191 --> 00:41:40.693
The people that "hey, the jerk store called, and they're all
00:41:40.693 --> 00:41:42.362
Out of christians," all right?
00:41:42.362 --> 00:41:44.164
But somewhere, you know, because--so at one point, paul
00:41:44.164 --> 00:41:46.633
Says to one fraud, "you're a son of the devil," and then later he
00:41:46.633 --> 00:41:50.436
Says, "use words of love seasoned with salt."
00:41:50.436 --> 00:41:52.672
So how--is paul contradicting himself?
00:41:52.672 --> 00:41:55.074
No, see, there--it's not about intent, and it's not
00:41:55.074 --> 00:41:58.878
About result.
00:41:58.878 --> 00:42:00.246
I think that we're judged in the kingdom of god by motivations.
00:42:00.246 --> 00:42:03.650
And so when our youngest daughter, zoe, used to have a
00:42:03.650 --> 00:42:06.252
Habit of running through parking lots and taking off, and then
00:42:06.252 --> 00:42:09.455
I'd have to grab her so that she wouldn't get hurt in the
00:42:09.455 --> 00:42:11.624
Parking lot.
00:42:11.624 --> 00:42:12.959
And when i said, "hey, come back here!
00:42:12.959 --> 00:42:14.327
Do not do that ever again," okay?
00:42:14.327 --> 00:42:16.095
If you didn't know the context of that conversation, you
00:42:16.095 --> 00:42:18.097
Thought i was being mean to my little kid.
00:42:18.097 --> 00:42:20.066
But if you saw that she took off and it was me trying to help
00:42:20.066 --> 00:42:22.235
Her, you saw the full context, now when the "maybe i should
00:42:22.235 --> 00:42:24.771
Have done this, kirk, maybe i should--zoe,
00:42:24.771 --> 00:42:26.573
Sweetie, daddy loves you.
00:42:26.573 --> 00:42:27.907
Please come back to me of your own free will.
00:42:27.907 --> 00:42:29.943
I'm being as nice and inviting and inclusive as i possibly can.
00:42:29.943 --> 00:42:32.879
I'd really appreciate it if you come back to me before you get
00:42:32.879 --> 00:42:34.781
Hit by a car," and then a car comes and
00:42:34.781 --> 00:42:36.182
Hits my kid, would i be a good dad?
00:42:36.182 --> 00:42:37.517
I mean, i was nice.
00:42:37.517 --> 00:42:38.918
But i wasn't good.
00:42:38.918 --> 00:42:40.453
And i think we have to reaffirm that it's, really, in the
00:42:40.453 --> 00:42:43.489
Kingdom of god, about motivations.
00:42:43.489 --> 00:42:45.458
When you discipline your children sometimes sternly, like
00:42:45.458 --> 00:42:48.061
God disciplines us--the lord chastens those whom he loves--
00:42:48.061 --> 00:42:51.030
Motivation is love for him.
00:42:51.030 --> 00:42:52.899
That's his motivation, all right?
00:42:52.899 --> 00:42:54.400
When his arms are stretched out wide on the cross, taking out
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:56.703
All of our sins upon him, same motivation.
00:42:56.703 --> 00:42:59.439
When the armies of israel are sent into canaan to be an urban
00:42:59.439 --> 00:43:03.142
Renewal program, love is the motivation, all right?
00:43:03.142 --> 00:43:07.180
And then when god comes and dies for pagans like us and gentiles
00:43:07.180 --> 00:43:10.116
Like us, love is the motivation.
00:43:10.116 --> 00:43:12.252
And i think what we need to do is check our motivations.
00:43:12.252 --> 00:43:15.088
Am i speaking sternly because i'm mad and i want to be heard,
00:43:15.088 --> 00:43:18.358
Or because the moment right now calls for it, given dire things
00:43:18.358 --> 00:43:22.328
Are at stake, right?
00:43:22.328 --> 00:43:23.663
What's my motivation?
00:43:23.663 --> 00:43:25.198
Whom--like joshua said, "choose ye
00:43:25.198 --> 00:43:27.033
This day whom you will serve."
00:43:27.033 --> 00:43:28.368
And i think what we need to be checking is not our tone, but
00:43:28.368 --> 00:43:30.603
Our motivations.
00:43:30.603 --> 00:43:32.538
Kirk: boy, that's challenging.
00:43:32.538 --> 00:43:34.440
That's really, really good.
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:35.808
Really, really important.
00:43:35.808 --> 00:43:37.310
How do you--how would you describe the cultural issue and
00:43:37.310 --> 00:43:41.848
The importance of "richie meets the rainbow"
00:43:41.848 --> 00:43:44.651
For parents right now?
00:43:44.651 --> 00:43:45.985
You know, we're talking about the broad cultural issues,
00:43:45.985 --> 00:43:49.322
Specifically what may parents be unaware of that their children
00:43:49.322 --> 00:43:54.127
Are learning in their schools?
00:43:54.127 --> 00:43:57.163
Steve: i think the question of identity--i think we don't
00:43:57.163 --> 00:43:59.465
Fully understand how vital this is to young people, and we
00:43:59.465 --> 00:44:05.004
Forget 'cause we kind of leave it behind as we get older, and
00:44:05.004 --> 00:44:07.440
We have other temptations and struggles now where we're trying
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.209
To earn a living and pay bills, but remember what it was like
00:44:10.209 --> 00:44:13.079
That your whole day at school, maybe a month at school, maybe
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:16.316
An entire school year could be dictated by "did i sit at the
00:44:16.316 --> 00:44:19.352
Right table with the right group of people?"
00:44:19.352 --> 00:44:20.720
Kirk: yeah, "did i embarrass myself with the wrong pair
00:44:20.720 --> 00:44:22.689
Of sneakers?"
00:44:22.689 --> 00:44:24.023
Steve: correct, all right, understand that--and now take
00:44:24.023 --> 00:44:25.758
That temptation and that pressure of identity and add
00:44:25.758 --> 00:44:30.163
Tiktok and add instagram and add snapchat to it.
00:44:30.163 --> 00:44:34.300
I mean, i would sometimes check to see what our kids would say
00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:37.537
To each other or say to their friends on their snapchats and
00:44:37.537 --> 00:44:40.673
On their tiktoks, and i'm like, dude, if we talk like this to
00:44:40.673 --> 00:44:44.677
One another, someone was going to the orthodontist and
00:44:44.677 --> 00:44:46.646
Missing a piece of teeth, okay?
00:44:46.646 --> 00:44:47.980
I mean, there were--there was, like, laws of the jungle that
00:44:47.980 --> 00:44:51.451
Kind of enforce and stop us from saying things that we thought
00:44:51.451 --> 00:44:54.053
Maybe our bodies, you know, writing checks our bodies
00:44:54.053 --> 00:44:56.189
Couldn't cash, so to speak.
00:44:56.189 --> 00:44:57.657
That's all out the window now, okay?
00:44:57.657 --> 00:45:00.026
And so the ability to have constant access to being
00:45:00.026 --> 00:45:03.129
Bullied, to be a bully yourself, all right, to constant
00:45:03.129 --> 00:45:06.599
Affirmation--so let me give a scenario that i think is very
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.001
Common today.
00:45:09.001 --> 00:45:10.470
I think, a young person goes to gym class, and then afterwards
00:45:10.470 --> 00:45:14.440
We shower, right?
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:15.942
And it's, say, 8th, 9th, 10th grade, right in the crucible of
00:45:15.942 --> 00:45:19.979
Puberty, right?
00:45:19.979 --> 00:45:21.314
And maybe looking around and kind of measuring where you're
00:45:21.314 --> 00:45:23.282
At compared to everybody else.
00:45:23.282 --> 00:45:24.617
And, hey, something--i seem to be behind, something's wrong
00:45:24.617 --> 00:45:26.953
With me, okay?
00:45:26.953 --> 00:45:28.321
In the past, you would have just kept that to yourself.
00:45:28.321 --> 00:45:30.022
Maybe you would have confided that to, like,
00:45:30.022 --> 00:45:31.357
One friend, all right?
00:45:31.357 --> 00:45:32.692
Here's what you do nowadays.
00:45:32.692 --> 00:45:34.026
Nowadays, you go home and you instantly make a tiktok about
00:45:34.026 --> 00:45:36.362
It, all right?
00:45:36.362 --> 00:45:37.730
And then what happens is your comments are flooded with a
00:45:37.730 --> 00:45:39.799
Bunch of your peers, many of whom you've never met, who say,
00:45:39.799 --> 00:45:42.502
"well, wait a minute, you were noticing the naked
00:45:42.502 --> 00:45:44.003
People in the same gender?
00:45:44.003 --> 00:45:45.605
Maybe you're actually gay, or maybe you're actually trans."
00:45:45.605 --> 00:45:48.341
Well, you don't want to push back on that because then you're
00:45:48.341 --> 00:45:50.343
A hater and a bigot, right?
00:45:50.343 --> 00:45:51.778
And so what happens is that momentum
00:45:51.778 --> 00:45:53.813
Starts rolling downhill.
00:45:53.813 --> 00:45:55.148
It starts right there. that's the mustard seed, right?
00:45:55.148 --> 00:45:57.750
And you don't ever push back, there's no parents involved, the
00:45:57.750 --> 00:46:00.953
Schools will only encourage, and they'll ferment this and
00:46:00.953 --> 00:46:04.724
Fertilize it all the more.
00:46:04.724 --> 00:46:06.192
And before you know it, one day, three weeks later, three months
00:46:06.192 --> 00:46:09.162
Later, your kid comes home and says, "hey, i'm not sam anymore,
00:46:09.162 --> 00:46:12.198
I'm shirley, and my guidance counselor thinks that i need to
00:46:12.198 --> 00:46:14.700
Have my chest bound, and maybe i need a pelvic tuck."
00:46:14.700 --> 00:46:19.105
And you're like, "what? how did we get here?"
00:46:19.105 --> 00:46:21.007
Because there's an entirely different ecosystem online based
00:46:21.007 --> 00:46:24.677
On identity and the affirmation of identity that they are living
00:46:24.677 --> 00:46:28.781
In that is separate from you at the dinner table, separate from
00:46:28.781 --> 00:46:31.617
You in church, and i think the question of identity is always a
00:46:31.617 --> 00:46:35.121
Struggle for young people, right?
00:46:35.121 --> 00:46:37.089
But it's even more of a crucible nowadays with what social
00:46:37.089 --> 00:46:40.226
Media provides.
00:46:40.226 --> 00:46:41.561
Kirk: i'm so excited for people to get this book.
00:46:41.561 --> 00:46:43.896
If you haven't read this book, you need to get it.
00:46:43.896 --> 00:46:45.998
I'm a brand-new grandfather.
00:46:45.998 --> 00:46:47.800
My granddaughter's only one year old, so
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:49.235
She probably couldn't understand it.
00:46:49.235 --> 00:46:50.570
But these are the kinds of issues that we're dealing with.
00:46:50.570 --> 00:46:53.940
What has been the response to the book from those who have
00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:56.742
Read it?
00:46:56.742 --> 00:46:58.411
Steve: there have been--we did some subversive marketing.
00:46:58.411 --> 00:47:01.447
So we ended up actually being in the lgb--
00:47:01.447 --> 00:47:03.749
Kirk: that sounds like a nefarious plot to me.
00:47:03.749 --> 00:47:05.151
Steve: yeah, we just kind of-- but we, you know, we can--
00:47:05.151 --> 00:47:06.886
Turnabout's fair play, you know?
00:47:06.886 --> 00:47:08.955
So we ended up actually inadvertently being an lgbtq
00:47:08.955 --> 00:47:12.091
Bestseller in the middle of pride month.
00:47:12.091 --> 00:47:13.459
Kirk: what?
00:47:13.459 --> 00:47:14.827
Steve: i say to our audience: if one kid, whose guidance
00:47:14.827 --> 00:47:18.030
Counselor and whose tiktok account was trying to convince
00:47:18.030 --> 00:47:20.633
Him to mutilate himself, inadvertently picked up this
00:47:20.633 --> 00:47:23.469
Book 'cause it was in the bestsellers, in that--the lgbtq
00:47:23.469 --> 00:47:26.806
Section and he didn't even know what he was reading or she was
00:47:26.806 --> 00:47:29.242
Reading and they picked up this book and it changed their minds,
00:47:29.242 --> 00:47:31.344
Then the whole thing was worth it.
00:47:31.344 --> 00:47:33.012
And i think we need to take that kind of perspective more often.
00:47:33.012 --> 00:47:37.016
We are literally fighting soul-to-soul combat now, kirk.
00:47:37.016 --> 00:47:40.753
Kirk: man, at the very back of the book, you've got
00:47:40.753 --> 00:47:43.322
Action steps.
00:47:43.322 --> 00:47:44.657
Would you just read the--maybe the number one, three, and five?
00:47:44.657 --> 00:47:48.728
Steve: sure, educate yourself, regularly study scripture and
00:47:48.728 --> 00:47:51.430
Trustworthy resources to clearly
00:47:51.430 --> 00:47:53.099
Understand and articulate your values.
00:47:53.099 --> 00:47:54.767
So, again, we have to know where truth comes from.
00:47:54.767 --> 00:47:57.069
That's number one.
00:47:57.069 --> 00:47:58.404
Number three, actively participate, actively
00:47:58.404 --> 00:48:00.773
Participate, actively participate, attend school board
00:48:00.773 --> 00:48:03.609
Meetings, parent-teacher conferences, local community
00:48:03.609 --> 00:48:05.645
Forums, ensuring your voice is heard.
00:48:05.645 --> 00:48:07.380
Listen, i love football season, okay?
00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:09.348
But maybe know as much about your local school board as you
00:48:09.348 --> 00:48:11.517
Do your fantasy football team.
00:48:11.517 --> 00:48:12.852
I'm just gonna throw that out there as a suggestion, okay?
00:48:12.852 --> 00:48:15.087
Stand firm with grace.
00:48:15.087 --> 00:48:16.422
Boldly and compassionately uphold and communicate your
00:48:16.422 --> 00:48:18.791
Beliefs, modeling strength combined with kindness.
00:48:18.791 --> 00:48:21.761
Because, remember, the people that we're trying to reach,
00:48:21.761 --> 00:48:24.263
Ultimately, are some of the very same people
00:48:24.263 --> 00:48:26.499
That are preaching this stuff.
00:48:26.499 --> 00:48:27.833
They're caught in the throes of it as well, right?
00:48:27.833 --> 00:48:30.369
And jesus died for them too.
00:48:30.369 --> 00:48:32.204
Kirk: that's right. that's right.
00:48:32.204 --> 00:48:33.973
They're not necessarily the enemy, they're likely the
00:48:33.973 --> 00:48:36.409
Opportunity, and they could come around, and some of them are
00:48:36.409 --> 00:48:39.946
Such good teachers.
00:48:39.946 --> 00:48:41.314
So great in communication skills.
00:48:41.314 --> 00:48:43.249
Steve: and like paul admonishes the church in corinth: buyers,
00:48:43.249 --> 00:48:45.818
Thieves, adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals,
00:48:45.818 --> 00:48:48.354
Murderers--these do not inherit the kingdom of heaven, but such
00:48:48.354 --> 00:48:51.557
As once were you.
00:48:51.557 --> 00:48:53.459
You were on the other side of that line once too.
00:48:53.459 --> 00:48:55.061
Kirk: that's right, that's right, i was, you were, we all
00:48:55.061 --> 00:48:57.396
Are, and thank god for mercy and grace.
00:48:57.396 --> 00:48:59.765
Steve: amen.
00:48:59.765 --> 00:49:01.100
Kirk: man, steve, thank you so much.
00:49:01.100 --> 00:49:02.768
Yeah, i can't wait for everybody to get a hold of this book.
00:49:02.768 --> 00:49:05.605
After the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:49:05.605 --> 00:49:07.773
♪♪♪
00:49:07.773 --> 00:49:11.844
♪♪♪
00:49:12.222 --> 00:49:16.159
Kirk: what important conversations we had today with
00:49:19.363 --> 00:49:21.865
Robert p. george and steve deace about the importance of standing
00:49:21.865 --> 00:49:25.602
On god's truth.
00:49:25.602 --> 00:49:26.970
Let's review our takeaways.
00:49:26.970 --> 00:49:29.640
God's word and character are number one.
00:49:29.640 --> 00:49:32.643
Steve deace said that this was one of two primary objectives
00:49:32.643 --> 00:49:37.147
For his book "richie meets the rainbow": to restore god's word
00:49:37.147 --> 00:49:40.951
And character as what matters most to us.
00:49:40.951 --> 00:49:44.321
This is the greatest commandment after all.
00:49:44.321 --> 00:49:46.390
To love the lord your god with all your heart, with all of your
00:49:46.390 --> 00:49:49.726
Soul, and with all your strength.
00:49:49.726 --> 00:49:52.262
And it's when we get this right that we can really live out the
00:49:52.262 --> 00:49:55.332
Call to love our neighbor as ourselves.
00:49:55.332 --> 00:49:58.568
God's kingdom priorities and perfect example of love should
00:49:58.568 --> 00:50:02.940
Always guide and motivate us about when and how to speak up
00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:07.444
In our culture.
00:50:07.444 --> 00:50:09.446
Fidelity to god, family, and community.
00:50:09.446 --> 00:50:12.783
I loved that robert p. george also spoke to the right
00:50:12.783 --> 00:50:16.320
Priorities that ought to guide the family of faith--a loyalty,
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:20.357
Or fidelity, first to god, like we talked about, then to
00:50:20.357 --> 00:50:24.962
Our families.
00:50:24.962 --> 00:50:26.330
This speaks not only about marital faithfulness but also
00:50:26.330 --> 00:50:31.001
About being willing to serve our spouse and our children, seeing
00:50:31.001 --> 00:50:34.838
Them as gifts from god.
00:50:34.838 --> 00:50:36.974
Then we serve our communities and country, civically engaging
00:50:36.974 --> 00:50:41.878
And contributing to our local communities.
00:50:41.878 --> 00:50:45.349
This is where we once were as a country and where america can be
00:50:45.349 --> 00:50:49.820
Again, as robert reminded us, and it's up to people like you
00:50:49.820 --> 00:50:53.256
And me regularly working out these ideals to turn the ship
00:50:53.256 --> 00:50:57.995
Around in our culture.
00:50:57.995 --> 00:50:59.663
Moms and dads, it's time to engage.
00:50:59.663 --> 00:51:03.033
Steve reminded us of this important truth several
00:51:03.033 --> 00:51:06.303
Times today.
00:51:06.303 --> 00:51:07.637
A dad or the absence of an engaged dad in the home makes a
00:51:07.637 --> 00:51:11.341
Huge difference.
00:51:11.341 --> 00:51:12.676
Similarly, robert stated that transmitting virtue to the next
00:51:12.676 --> 00:51:16.680
Generation relies on us as parents to embrace and teach
00:51:16.680 --> 00:51:21.585
Virtue to our children, teaching them to be men and women who
00:51:21.585 --> 00:51:25.822
Seek truth and speak truth, willing to stand up for god's
00:51:25.822 --> 00:51:30.660
Truth even when it's unpopular.
00:51:30.660 --> 00:51:33.797
Though things like engaging our kids in conversations at the
00:51:33.797 --> 00:51:36.466
Dinner table or making a point to be in the pew of a
00:51:36.466 --> 00:51:39.669
Bible-believing church on sunday might seem too simple, moms and
00:51:39.669 --> 00:51:44.107
Dads, this is exactly how we help guide our children in the
00:51:44.107 --> 00:51:48.311
Way they should go.
00:51:48.311 --> 00:51:49.713
This is how we model that god and his word, his character is
00:51:49.713 --> 00:51:54.284
Good and essential for our families to flourish.
00:51:54.284 --> 00:51:58.321
Stepping into our god-given role as dad or mom, grandfather or
00:51:58.321 --> 00:52:03.293
Grandmother day in day out will send shock waves through
00:52:03.293 --> 00:52:06.797
Our culture.
00:52:06.797 --> 00:52:08.265
Are you in?
00:52:08.265 --> 00:52:10.233
That's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:10.233 --> 00:52:12.402
Thanks for watching, and if you've enjoyed this show, don't
00:52:12.402 --> 00:52:15.639
Forget: set your dvr so you never miss an episode.
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:18.475
And, of course, you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:52:18.475 --> 00:52:22.145
Searching for "takeaways" on tbn plus or by visiting the "kirk
00:52:22.145 --> 00:52:27.184
Cameron on tbn" youtube channel.
00:52:27.184 --> 00:52:29.986
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:52:29.986 --> 00:52:33.757
♪♪♪
00:52:33.757 --> 00:52:37.894
♪♪♪
00:52:39.930 --> 00:52:39.930

Robert P. George & Steve Deace: Standing Firm on God’s Truth in a Counter Culture World | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

September 22, 2025 | 54:32

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