Steven Curtis and Mary Beth Chapman: God’s Faithfulness through Seasons of Life | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

April 6, 2026 | 53:25

Join Kirk Cameron to discuss pressing issues Christians are facing with compassionate, well-informed guests, and together, find actionable takeaways that we can use today, this week, and this month to bring more of Heaven to Earth.

#Author #Season #Trials-HardTimes #TrustGod #Faithfulness #SeekGod #Tragedy #Loss #Grief #Healing #Singer/Songwriter #KirkCameron #MaryBethChapman

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Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | Steven Curtis and Mary Beth Chapman: God’s Faithfulness through Seasons of Life | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron | April 6, 2026

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Kirk cameron: here's a quote from a book we're gonna talk
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About today: "marriage can be hard.
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Parenting, hard.
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Doing your job again today without wanting to quit, on some
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Days, very hard.
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Life is just hard.
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But perhaps the winning is found most often in just doing the
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Hard by god's grace, by god's strength, doing the hard
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And then doing it again,
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And wherever possible, doing it together."
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This is from the book "still here," written by steven curtis
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Chapman and his wife mary beth.
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They are with us today to share their life's journey in careers,
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Marriage, family, and the grace god gives us to do the hard
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Through it all.
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Steven curtis chapman: i will be here when you feel like
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Being quiet.
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Mary beth chapman: when you need to speak your mind.
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Steven: when you need to speak your mind, i will listen.
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I know when i sing it, it sounds like, "oh, when you feel like
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Being quiet, i'll just be here," like, "yes, love, just
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Be quiet."
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Or when you need to speak your mind, "sweetheart, i need to
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Speak my mind."
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It doesn't really play out like that.
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It tends to be, i mean behind that is, you know, "when you
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Won't say a word and i'm--it's making me crazy," and i'm going,
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"what are you thinking?"
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Or then when you decide, "i'm gonna tell you what
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I'm thinking.
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You wanna know what i'm thinking?
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Here it is."
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Then i'm like, "okay, i'm gonna try to listen."
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Kirk: it's coming up on "takeaways."
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Kirk: i am so excited about my guest today.
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Steven curtis chapman is the most awarded artist in christian
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Music history.
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Among them are 60 gma dove awards and 5 grammys.
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He's charted an unprecedented 50 number 1 singles, and he's also
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The only christian music songwriter to receive the
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Prestigious bmi icon award.
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His wife, mary beth, already a "new york times" bestselling
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Author, is co-founder and chairman of the board of show
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Hope, an internationally recognized nonprofit
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Organization dedicated to caring for children and reducing
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Barriers to adoption.
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They've been married for 40+ years, parenting six children
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And seven grandchildren, and they've written a brand new book
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Together titled "still here: life together on the long
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Way home."
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Steven and mary beth, thank you so much for being
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On "takeaways."
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Steven: well done.
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That was quite the--it was quite an introduction.
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That's a lot.
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Kirk: that was a mouthful.
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But i'm truly honored to be able to talk with two of you.
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Not even because of all that you've done, which is a lot and
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So impressive, but who i know you are.
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Because i come from the world of make-believe, the land of fruits
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And nuts in hollywood, and everybody's crazy or fake.
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And you're neither, you're the real deal, and you're filled
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With wisdom for us, and you're giving it to us in this book.
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I'm so excited.
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Steven: thank you, brother. we're a little crazy.
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But, you know, we gotta be a little crazy
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To still be, you know?
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Kirk: well, you gotta be a little crazy to be married
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For 40 years.
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Steven: yes, you do. it's a crazy good.
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Kirk: well, let me start by asking you about the title.
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It's called "still here."
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Now, that's obviously calling back to your song, "i will be
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Here," which was my and chelsea's wedding song.
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Steven: wow.
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Kirk: so, i walked down the aisle to your song.
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Steven: bro, so grateful.
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Kirk: and i wanna ask you, what does it feel like to still be
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Here together after 40 years of marriage?
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Steven: well, i was--
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Mary beth: he was tired.
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Steven: you wanna say, yeah.
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Kirk: you just gotta figure out who talks first.
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Steven: you would say tired, amazing, awesome.
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Mary beth: i guess i'll go first.
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You know, "i will be here" was, you know, written early '90s,
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'89, '88-ish.
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Steven: it came out on '89.
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Mary beth: anyways.
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And that song was written as a gift to me.
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Gave it to me out of a really difficult journey of his mom and
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Dad, their marriage ending in divorce.
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And so, when he wrote me that song, it was really the rug
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Being pulled out from under a couple that we admired and
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Really were looking--they were just invested in their church.
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He was the music minister at church and she was counseling,
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You know, young married couples that were just really, we were--
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So thought it was gonna be forever.
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And so, we had emily at the time, she was almost four years
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Old, and we're looking at each other going, okay.
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This is, yeah, we're gonna need to--it's gonna be a long life,
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And we're gonna need to hold on to each other, hold on to
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The lord.
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And so this song, which became the wedding song of the '90s,
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Late '80s and '90s, was written.
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We--he didn't choose.
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Right, you're--i think you would say that song wasn't intended to
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Be this wedding song of the century.
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It was just kind of out of deep pain and deep, you know?
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Steven: yeah, the first time someone mentioned, "man, i bet
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This song's gonna be sung," what was my producer as we were
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Recording the song, we walked out.
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I'll never forget, walked out in the little kind of lounge area
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After recording the vocal for it and he said, "man, i bet that
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Song's gonna be sung in a lot of weddings."
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And i literally looked at him and said, "tomorrow morning if
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You wake up and the sun does not appear, i'll be--that's like
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That's the first line, "if in the dark we lose sight of love,"
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Like, nobody wants to sing that at their wedding.
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You're like, celebrating endless love and i'm like, "that's a
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Hard song."
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And i'm like, "you really think people will wanna sing that at
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A wedding?"
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He's like, "oh, yeah, i think so."
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So, it's really cool that it over the years has been
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Such a--
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Mary beth: and so to answer your question, it's really the
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Goodness of the lord and the faithfulness of this man that we
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Are still here.
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And when they've approached us several times to write a book
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And we're the first to say that is not a book laying there of
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Things to do that'll just keep you on the, you know, the
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Answers to your "how to do it right" and all that.
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But it is a book written out of a lot of hard and heartbreak
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And kind of what not to do.
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We can write--we've always said we can write the book of what
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Not to do, but not what to do.
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But i will say that it is the goodness of the lord and the
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Determination to--we've always said that this book can be
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Written in one sentence, it's to bear with one another in love.
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Kirk: and i wanna double click on that and have you explain to
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Us why that verse is so important to you.
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When you wrote that song, "i will be here," you had no idea
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The things that were coming down the pike.
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And, wow, what a story that you have.
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Did life unfold the way that you thought it would and expected
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That it would over the next couple of decades?
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Steven: yeah, not at all.
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We started off $50 in a green ford pinto.
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Sounds like a country song, i know.
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In fact, it would be a great one, and i need to write it,
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Except that nobody now listening would know what a green ford
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Pinto was.
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They're like a horse, a what?
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What you rode a green horse?
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No, a green car, ford pinto, which was a car back in the day.
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And that was her car, and we drove away from our wedding in
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Springfield, ohio, in that little car, "just married" all
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Over it.
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Went to cincinnati, ohio, had our first night, as we explained
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In there, our honeymoon night.
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In cincinnati, went to the cincinnati zoo the next morning.
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That was our honeymoon.
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We drove back to nashville that day and i looked over.
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And i was at belmont, she had to go to work, and i looked over
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And she had tears streaming down her face and i went, "wow, this
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Already, day one, this is not how i imagined this going.
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I thought we were gonna be driving away going let's go, be
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Married, and figure out life."
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And, you know, and so, pretty quickly we knew this is gonna be
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A little different.
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But pretty quickly realized that even just, you know, everything
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About what we thought how we were gonna engage with each
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Other, and how we were gonna work out problems, and all of
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That stuff, you know, it's just the reality that suddenly we're
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Thinking, we're a lot more-- we're dragging a lot more
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Baggage into this than we ever imagined.
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Took us a lot of years to even begin to realize and kind of
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Unpack some of it.
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And god, a lot of this book tells the journey of that, of
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God sending people along our pathway, pastors, friends,
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Counselors, people that we never imagined, i mean, we started out
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Like, "we didn't need none of that, you know, we got this
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Thing figured out.
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I mean, for crying out loud."
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We, one of the funny things that people know that know my music
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And have heard our story.
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I was--she was a chapman when i met her.
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Her last name was chapman.
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I don't know if you knew this.
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I shared this, really, we shared a mailbox together in college
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Because alphabetically they assigned two students together.
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So, i met mary beth chapman as mary beth chapman in
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Anderson, indiana.
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Mary beth: yeah, we shared a mailbox.
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Steven: was fascinated with her and thought, you know, we
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Thought just going for us this is gonna be almost unfair how
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Easy is this gonna be.
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Yeah, and that changed pretty quickly and we began to realize,
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But even musically, creatively, all of that.
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We started out very humble ideas about, you know, she was super
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Supportive from the beginning of, "i know god's called you to
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Use the gifts he's given you."
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I thought it was gonna be songwriting specifically.
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I didn't even know that i'd ever get a chance to make a record.
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When i did, the expectations were very humble, we'll say, at
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The beginning.
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And so, we never--
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Kirk: of course, there's no way you could have known what would
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Happen with your career and then things that you would then
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Discover about one another that you didn't know as kids that
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Only come out later with children of your own.
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And now, when the mom gene kicks in and the dad gene kicks in
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And then the fame kicks in, and then life takes turns that you
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Never thought would happen, oh my goodness.
00:09:59.789 --> 00:10:03.359
So, i heard that you were both hesitant to write this book
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About marriage, each one of you for different reasons.
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What changed your minds?
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Steven: yeah, well, we did--we were asked when i wrote "i will
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Be here" probably within a couple of years when that song
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Started to really take off, publishers began to approach us
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Like, you know, "you wrote, you know, the marriage--the song
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For, you know, the decade.
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You should write a book about "i will be here" and write a book
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About your relationship.
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And we always said, and we were really honest.
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It sounded like we're just being sort of, you know, aw shucks,
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But we just said, "look, we're still so far from figuring
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This out.
00:10:42.398 --> 00:10:43.766
You write books about things you know and you can offer someone
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With, we're not the experts."
00:10:47.503 --> 00:10:48.971
And then we'd get approached 10, 20 years later and like we're
00:10:48.971 --> 00:10:52.441
Still not the experts.
00:10:52.441 --> 00:10:53.809
So, finally, about--so i said, somebody, literally, i think it
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Was like we still can only write the book we feel like what not
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To do, all the mistakes we've made because we feel like we've
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Made every one you could possibly make.
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And they said, but somehow by god's grace and our just being
00:11:06.188 --> 00:11:10.025
Stubborn, and determined, and trust in the lord, we're
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Still here.
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And somebody said, "that's the book.
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Can you write 'still here'?
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Just tell that story.
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Why are you still here, do that and you're still here."
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And we're like, "well, yeah, we can't really do that--"
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Mary beth: i also think, and you know this, when you're first
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Dating the person you're gonna marry and all of those things
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That are so vastly different than you about that person is
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Really what attracted you to chelsea.
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I'm guessing that there was a lot of things that you didn't
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Possess that you found fascinating in her.
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It was just like that.
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And that's the attraction, right?
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And it's like this, you know, all the things that, you know,
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He's whimsical, i'm not.
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You know he's not structured, i'm structured, it's like i need
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This in my life, this is great.
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And then you get married and it's like--
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Steven: we're so different.
00:11:55.971 --> 00:11:57.306
Mary beth: and we're so different.
00:11:57.306 --> 00:11:58.674
And when that's the very thing that brought us together is the
00:11:58.674 --> 00:12:00.609
Thing that then just begins to, you know, just, "okay, we've got
00:12:00.609 --> 00:12:05.714
To figure this out and how do we begin to bear with one another
00:12:05.714 --> 00:12:08.617
In love."
00:12:08.617 --> 00:12:09.952
And that's really where we finally got to, it's like,
00:12:09.952 --> 00:12:11.687
"wait, we have done this, we've done this for 42 years, and we
00:12:11.687 --> 00:12:14.890
Are still here, and there's so much i wish i would have done
00:12:14.890 --> 00:12:19.094
Differently, and so much grace and forgiveness from this man
00:12:19.094 --> 00:12:22.498
Along the way," but we're still here.
00:12:22.498 --> 00:12:24.200
Kirk: well, i'm so glad that you waited.
00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:25.634
I'm so glad that you're writing the book now and that people are
00:12:25.634 --> 00:12:28.804
Gonna be able to read it.
00:12:28.804 --> 00:12:30.172
Because i think that we can relate to you more when you
00:12:30.172 --> 00:12:33.576
Don't have it all figured out because we don't have it all
00:12:33.576 --> 00:12:35.578
Figured out.
00:12:35.578 --> 00:12:36.912
And so, we wanna know how you're dealing in the midst of it all
00:12:36.912 --> 00:12:40.216
As parents, as grandparents, how do you balance work and career?
00:12:40.216 --> 00:12:43.652
I know that's been a big struggle.
00:12:43.652 --> 00:12:45.054
I'm--not work and career, that's the same thing.
00:12:45.054 --> 00:12:47.556
Career and family.
00:12:47.556 --> 00:12:49.225
And chelsea and i have wrestled with that, and that has had a
00:12:49.225 --> 00:12:52.194
Huge impact, and i didn't realize it until later.
00:12:52.194 --> 00:12:55.397
So, i want to get into all of this after the break.
00:12:55.397 --> 00:12:58.000
When we come back, we're gonna talk with steven and mary beth
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.603
About the personality test that they took many years ago and
00:13:00.603 --> 00:13:04.573
What they discovered about themselves.
00:13:04.573 --> 00:13:06.575
So, don't miss this.
00:13:06.575 --> 00:13:13.003
So, don't miss this.
00:13:13.003 --> 00:13:16.452
Kirk: we're back with steven curtis and mary beth chapman
00:13:20.623 --> 00:13:23.125
Sharing their ups and downs of balancing careers, marriage, and
00:13:23.125 --> 00:13:28.364
Raising a big family.
00:13:28.364 --> 00:13:31.033
Man, i'm so thankful to be having this conversation
00:13:31.033 --> 00:13:34.770
With you.
00:13:34.770 --> 00:13:36.105
And i wanna know, was it hard for you like it was for me and
00:13:36.105 --> 00:13:39.541
Chelsea to balance family life and career?
00:13:39.541 --> 00:13:45.915
Mary beth: it's still is probably the number one, yeah,
00:13:45.915 --> 00:13:48.284
It's still so hard, right?
00:13:48.284 --> 00:13:50.019
It's just, it's the thing that i think probably one of the main
00:13:50.019 --> 00:13:53.489
Things the enemies really used it to get us, you know?
00:13:53.489 --> 00:13:56.558
Kirk: what makes it so hard?
00:13:56.558 --> 00:13:58.160
Steven: i will say--
00:13:58.160 --> 00:13:59.495
Kirk: because like, you're a healthy couple, you're
00:13:59.495 --> 00:14:01.163
Christians, you got a successful career, you love your kids, they
00:14:01.163 --> 00:14:05.034
Love you, where's the struggle?
00:14:05.034 --> 00:14:08.103
Steven: i think the--i will say the things that we gravitate
00:14:08.103 --> 00:14:12.374
Towards are the things that we're just naturally kind of
00:14:12.374 --> 00:14:17.179
Gifted to do and get the most sort of fulfillment from, the
00:14:17.179 --> 00:14:22.851
Most immediate sort of, you know, i can succeed at.
00:14:22.851 --> 00:14:26.588
I know how to--i've learned how to write an okay song.
00:14:26.588 --> 00:14:30.592
I know how to perform it in a way that, you know, people are
00:14:30.592 --> 00:14:33.128
Gonna connect with, and all this stuff is the natural stuff that
00:14:33.128 --> 00:14:38.200
God kind of wired me to do.
00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:40.502
And, you know, that stuff is pretty easy.
00:14:40.502 --> 00:14:43.339
I think, you know, even for a mom, it's not easy stuff, but
00:14:43.339 --> 00:14:46.442
It's the natural things.
00:14:46.442 --> 00:14:49.511
Marriage, two becoming one, laying your life down for the
00:14:49.511 --> 00:14:54.183
Other one, pick up your cross, follow me,
00:14:54.183 --> 00:14:56.585
Die to yourself, be, you know--
00:14:56.585 --> 00:14:58.721
Kirk: that's humility. it doesn't come natural.
00:14:58.721 --> 00:15:00.055
Steven: patience, long suffering, that's not the
00:15:00.055 --> 00:15:02.157
Natural stuff.
00:15:02.157 --> 00:15:03.492
So, we wanna gravitate towards in so many--
00:15:03.492 --> 00:15:05.694
And ministries and careers have, you know, have--the marriages
00:15:05.694 --> 00:15:10.499
Have crumbled as the guy goes on to be really successful even in
00:15:10.499 --> 00:15:14.370
Ministry, even in christian because that's the stuff that we
00:15:14.370 --> 00:15:17.806
Kind of go, "man, i know how to do that, i feel i'm good at it."
00:15:17.806 --> 00:15:20.976
But this is much different, and i think we get in the book even
00:15:20.976 --> 00:15:25.514
Because there's an enemy, you know, cosmic forces against it,
00:15:25.514 --> 00:15:29.118
Not just our own personalities, there's an enemy who hates
00:15:29.118 --> 00:15:32.921
Everything that is beautiful and reflects the glory of god.
00:15:32.921 --> 00:15:36.425
What does more than marriage, the bride of christ that you
00:15:36.425 --> 00:15:39.661
Know, it's the, you know, the metaphor in the picture that,
00:15:39.661 --> 00:15:42.498
You know, the scripture gives us and jesus gave us, you know, to
00:15:42.498 --> 00:15:45.901
Even represent our relationship with the father.
00:15:45.901 --> 00:15:47.870
So, of course, the enemy's gonna hate and be out to destroy you.
00:15:47.870 --> 00:15:50.739
So, you got that going against you, plus your own stuff.
00:15:50.739 --> 00:15:54.710
Kirk: was it hard for you when he was out on the road so much?
00:15:54.710 --> 00:15:57.913
Mary beth: yeah, i mean we got married when we were really
00:15:57.913 --> 00:15:59.648
Young, 19 and 21.
00:15:59.648 --> 00:16:01.050
Emily came along so early, like six months into our marriage, we
00:16:01.050 --> 00:16:05.487
Found out we were pregnant.
00:16:05.487 --> 00:16:06.855
He's becoming steven curtis chapman, oh, you know, as this
00:16:06.855 --> 00:16:11.126
Is all happening, really hard.
00:16:11.126 --> 00:16:15.497
You know, we didn't understand what was coming because like we
00:16:15.497 --> 00:16:19.301
Didn't really fully know, but you know, but, yeah, those early
00:16:19.301 --> 00:16:23.138
Tours, he's gone a ton, and i'm at home trying to hold down
00:16:23.138 --> 00:16:27.376
The fort.
00:16:27.376 --> 00:16:28.744
And yeah, and not knowing what i know now, gosh, there's so much
00:16:28.744 --> 00:16:32.981
That i like, i wanna even, you know, i have begun and have been
00:16:32.981 --> 00:16:38.087
Even teaching my children about just, gosh, just the grace to
00:16:38.087 --> 00:16:43.759
Go, "you're--we're in this together i support it, you're
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.762
Doing it," and just having more of an understanding.
00:16:46.762 --> 00:16:49.431
But, you know, we want what we want, and we want it.
00:16:49.431 --> 00:16:51.200
I wanted him home.
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:52.534
And so, yeah, it was a push and pull and tug, and it gets
00:16:52.534 --> 00:16:54.703
Lonely, and all of those things.
00:16:54.703 --> 00:16:56.572
And so, it was really, really hard, really hard.
00:16:56.572 --> 00:16:58.974
We walked through an early miscarriage after emily.
00:16:58.974 --> 00:17:02.111
He was on the road, you know, all those things are
00:17:02.111 --> 00:17:04.313
Really difficult.
00:17:04.313 --> 00:17:05.681
You know, when "i will be here" came out, there's many nights
00:17:05.681 --> 00:17:09.051
That the zinger i would throw at him was, "hey, are you singing
00:17:09.051 --> 00:17:12.654
The song 'i will be here' tonight because you're not here,
00:17:12.654 --> 00:17:15.190
You're there."
00:17:15.190 --> 00:17:16.558
Steven: "you sing on a throne of lies."
00:17:16.558 --> 00:17:18.293
Mary beth: "you sit on a throne of lies."
00:17:18.293 --> 00:17:21.463
Steven: "you're singing 'i will be here,' but you're not."
00:17:21.463 --> 00:17:23.632
Mary beth: "but you're not," yeah.
00:17:23.632 --> 00:17:25.367
And so, yeah, just so much my own woundedness, my own youth,
00:17:25.367 --> 00:17:30.939
My own all of the naivety, all of the things that, you know,
00:17:30.939 --> 00:17:35.477
I'm grateful that the lord has been long suffering for us to,
00:17:35.477 --> 00:17:39.982
You know, grow more together.
00:17:39.982 --> 00:17:41.750
The closer we've grown to god in our separate walks with the
00:17:41.750 --> 00:17:44.153
Lord, the closer we've grown to each other, yeah.
00:17:44.153 --> 00:17:49.124
Kirk: there's so much more to your story that i wanna
00:17:49.124 --> 00:17:51.393
Get into.
00:17:51.393 --> 00:17:53.095
But you mentioned earlier there's an entire chapter in
00:17:53.095 --> 00:17:55.364
Your book that is called "bearing with each other
00:17:55.364 --> 00:17:58.500
In love."
00:17:58.500 --> 00:17:59.835
What does that mean, to bear with each other in love?
00:17:59.835 --> 00:18:03.071
Steven: we have kind of determined, i guess, over the
00:18:03.071 --> 00:18:06.341
Years that one of the reasons it was hard for us to consider
00:18:06.341 --> 00:18:09.945
Writing a book and people would say "what are the secrets?
00:18:09.945 --> 00:18:12.948
What are the--what's the secret to still being married, you
00:18:12.948 --> 00:18:15.817
Know, all these years?"
00:18:15.817 --> 00:18:17.152
And for whatever reason, that scripture and that truth of
00:18:17.152 --> 00:18:22.558
Scripture seems like what we just keep coming back to because
00:18:22.558 --> 00:18:27.029
It's so foreign to what i feel like so much of the teaching of
00:18:27.029 --> 00:18:31.567
Maybe modern even therapy and counseling is, you know, you
00:18:31.567 --> 00:18:36.672
Have to be the healthiest you that you can be in order to be a
00:18:36.672 --> 00:18:39.875
Healthy you together.
00:18:39.875 --> 00:18:41.376
And there's, again, there's threads of--there's truth in
00:18:41.376 --> 00:18:43.445
All of these things.
00:18:43.445 --> 00:18:44.813
I don't mean to be throwing stones at any of those
00:18:44.813 --> 00:18:47.216
Good things.
00:18:47.216 --> 00:18:49.451
But the challenge is always we go back to--if we go back to the
00:18:49.451 --> 00:18:53.655
Scripture and the bible is our kind of only real sure
00:18:53.655 --> 00:18:57.259
Foundation, you know, that we're gonna be able to build this on,
00:18:57.259 --> 00:19:00.729
It just page after page, you know, talks about, you lay your
00:19:00.729 --> 00:19:07.069
Life down for the other, consider the other, you know,
00:19:07.069 --> 00:19:10.005
More important than yourself.
00:19:10.005 --> 00:19:11.373
And look not only in your own interest, to the interest
00:19:11.373 --> 00:19:13.575
Of others.
00:19:13.575 --> 00:19:14.943
And the first other is gonna be your husband or wife, you know?
00:19:14.943 --> 00:19:19.214
And then bearing with one--love bears all things, bearing with
00:19:19.214 --> 00:19:23.085
One another, even the word patience, which we've talked
00:19:23.085 --> 00:19:25.621
About this recently because i got kind of fascinated with this
00:19:25.621 --> 00:19:28.290
Looking up, you know, the origin of the word and it's--and it
00:19:28.290 --> 00:19:32.961
Means this longsuffering is actually the, you know, if you
00:19:32.961 --> 00:19:36.298
Look at, i think, the old king james, you know, it's used
00:19:36.298 --> 00:19:39.468
Instead of patience, it's longsuffering.
00:19:39.468 --> 00:19:41.303
And that word means to suffer long, to bear, to carry a
00:19:41.303 --> 00:19:45.741
Weight, you're gonna carry a weight of disappointment of each
00:19:45.741 --> 00:19:49.578
Other's, you know, flaws and sin that, you know, is.
00:19:49.578 --> 00:19:53.782
And you're gonna carry that, and that's actually gonna draw you
00:19:53.782 --> 00:19:58.587
Closer to jesus because you're gonna identify more he carried
00:19:58.587 --> 00:20:03.525
This for us and this is how we actually come more to know him.
00:20:03.525 --> 00:20:09.031
And in doing that, we learned to, you know, humble ourselves
00:20:09.031 --> 00:20:13.602
More, recognize our need more for him.
00:20:13.602 --> 00:20:16.138
And so, there's a lot in that even though it originally kind
00:20:16.138 --> 00:20:18.974
Of sounds like there's not--that's just it?
00:20:18.974 --> 00:20:20.976
That's all it is, is bear with each other in love?
00:20:20.976 --> 00:20:22.577
It's like, but that's a pretty amazing thing that we have been
00:20:22.577 --> 00:20:26.581
Invited into because it draws us into so much the heart of who
00:20:26.581 --> 00:20:31.453
Jesus is.
00:20:31.453 --> 00:20:32.821
And it's kind of the secret if we've got one.
00:20:32.821 --> 00:20:35.390
Mary beth: and i think too it helps divert, he's not my enemy.
00:20:35.390 --> 00:20:39.695
There is an enemy, right?
00:20:39.695 --> 00:20:42.164
And if we can--
00:20:42.164 --> 00:20:43.498
Kirk: even though he might act like it some sometimes.
00:20:43.498 --> 00:20:46.101
Oh, that there is a greater evil out there.
00:20:46.101 --> 00:20:50.572
Mary beth: and really learning to take, oh, i just, you know, i
00:20:50.572 --> 00:20:55.577
Wanna harp on him about this, this, this, this, but instead
00:20:55.577 --> 00:20:58.113
Just taking it to the lord and going, "he's not my enemy,"
00:20:58.113 --> 00:21:00.782
You know?
00:21:00.782 --> 00:21:02.150
You know, this is a man i love, this is the father of my
00:21:02.150 --> 00:21:04.019
Children, this is the man i wanna go the distance with, you
00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:06.455
Know, going, "you deal with him," you know?
00:21:06.455 --> 00:21:08.156
And you, you know.
00:21:08.156 --> 00:21:09.491
Steven: smite him. mary beth: you smite him.
00:21:09.491 --> 00:21:10.926
Steven: i ain't gonna smite him today, but you smite him.
00:21:10.926 --> 00:21:12.894
Mary beth: but help me to suffer long, yeah.
00:21:12.894 --> 00:21:14.896
Kirk: don't you think that's one of the big surprises in marriage
00:21:14.896 --> 00:21:17.132
For young couples?
00:21:17.132 --> 00:21:19.000
Is that you read a verse like that, "bear with one another in
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.804
Love" and you think, "oh, this is referring to circumstances
00:21:22.804 --> 00:21:26.541
That we must bear together as we love one another.
00:21:26.541 --> 00:21:30.212
We can bear this together."
00:21:30.212 --> 00:21:31.646
No, it's actually you end up realizing that interpersonally,
00:21:31.646 --> 00:21:34.583
Relationally, i've got to bear with someone who needs a savior.
00:21:34.583 --> 00:21:39.388
Because he too is broken and they're gonna have to bear
00:21:39.388 --> 00:21:42.157
With me."
00:21:42.157 --> 00:21:43.525
Mary beth: he's bearing a sinner's--
00:21:43.525 --> 00:21:45.794
Kirk: and you don't realize that in the honeymoon phase, in the
00:21:45.794 --> 00:21:48.196
Very beginning, right, it's all fireworks, love and roses.
00:21:48.196 --> 00:21:50.565
And then you realize, "oh, wow, now i understand why jesus
00:21:50.565 --> 00:21:53.368
Needed to die for you."
00:21:53.368 --> 00:21:55.303
You're a broken and lost sinner like me, and we're learning.
00:21:55.303 --> 00:22:00.742
Now, i want to get to this really fascinating point in the
00:22:00.742 --> 00:22:05.147
Story of you guys taking a personality test.
00:22:05.147 --> 00:22:08.350
Now, first of all, do you believe in personality tests?
00:22:08.350 --> 00:22:10.552
Are these things helpful or are they just
00:22:10.552 --> 00:22:12.220
Unnecessarily complicated?
00:22:12.220 --> 00:22:13.655
And what were the results?
00:22:13.655 --> 00:22:15.190
Steven: and we have separate opinions on that even.
00:22:15.190 --> 00:22:17.559
Mary beth: we were asked pretty early on, they're like, "hey,
00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:20.095
This, you know, some counseling might help you guys just really
00:22:20.095 --> 00:22:22.364
Kind of, you know, try to give you
00:22:22.364 --> 00:22:23.899
Some tools for the tool belt."
00:22:23.899 --> 00:22:25.467
I think any of these things can be great tools, any tool, but i
00:22:25.467 --> 00:22:28.503
Don't wanna offend anybody.
00:22:28.503 --> 00:22:29.871
But you know, like, "hey, this might be helpful to understand
00:22:29.871 --> 00:22:32.107
This person a little bit and put a few more tools in the marriage
00:22:32.107 --> 00:22:35.410
Tool belt."
00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:36.745
And so, we went to take this personality test and this is not
00:22:36.745 --> 00:22:40.182
Really any shock to us, but we answered all these questions.
00:22:40.182 --> 00:22:43.685
I'm not sure which test it was, this was a long time ago.
00:22:43.685 --> 00:22:46.154
But at any rate, this sweet man says, "hey, i think we've
00:22:46.154 --> 00:22:51.092
Discovered some things and why there might be some issues."
00:22:51.092 --> 00:22:53.962
You know, like, oh, captain obvious, i mean steven, he's
00:22:53.962 --> 00:22:56.364
Getting ready to, hey.
00:22:56.364 --> 00:22:59.067
So, they lay our results down and this was all graphed out and
00:22:59.067 --> 00:23:03.405
Steven's results went this way up a page, you know, all graphed
00:23:03.405 --> 00:23:06.842
Out, and mine went this way off a graph, and then you have this
00:23:06.842 --> 00:23:11.279
Perfect little x, we've just been this like, and he's like--
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.549
Steven: a picture was worth a thousand words.
00:23:14.549 --> 00:23:17.052
Mary beth: i think this might be some of the problem.
00:23:17.052 --> 00:23:19.421
I'm like captain obvious.
00:23:19.421 --> 00:23:20.755
I could have probably told you that.
00:23:20.755 --> 00:23:22.624
Again, going back to, i married this man who had so many
00:23:22.624 --> 00:23:26.061
Amazing things.
00:23:26.061 --> 00:23:27.395
I was like, "i need to be more like that.
00:23:27.395 --> 00:23:28.964
I need to, you know, i love that about him, you know, that's what
00:23:28.964 --> 00:23:31.933
Attracts me to him."
00:23:31.933 --> 00:23:33.268
And same for him and then the minute we got married, it was
00:23:33.268 --> 00:23:35.604
Like, "i'm gonna change all this about you and it'll be okay in
00:23:35.604 --> 00:23:38.573
About a year, you'll go get it figured out and we'll all
00:23:38.573 --> 00:23:41.543
Be good."
00:23:41.543 --> 00:23:42.878
And, so yeah, so.
00:23:42.878 --> 00:23:44.679
Steven: i'm a slave.
00:23:44.679 --> 00:23:47.482
We're still learning.
00:23:47.482 --> 00:23:48.850
Kirk: you know, but you wrote the marriage song, so we all
00:23:48.850 --> 00:23:51.119
Assumed that the--
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:52.454
Steven: no. kirk: was just a breeze.
00:23:52.454 --> 00:23:53.788
Steven: that's a problem-- kirk: pete and mary did that.
00:23:53.788 --> 00:23:55.123
Mary beth: that's right, like, and who wouldn't?
00:23:55.123 --> 00:23:58.927
Steven: oh gosh, i always try to tell everybody, just listen.
00:23:58.927 --> 00:24:02.964
Did you actually listen to the lyrics of the song?
00:24:02.964 --> 00:24:05.634
Now the problem is, i made it work in a song because, "i will
00:24:05.634 --> 00:24:09.905
Be here when you feel like being quiet."
00:24:09.905 --> 00:24:12.274
Mary beth: "when you need to speak your mind--"
00:24:12.274 --> 00:24:14.676
Steven: "i will listen."
00:24:14.676 --> 00:24:16.044
I know when i sing it, it sounds like, "oh, when you feel like
00:24:16.044 --> 00:24:18.079
Being quiet, i'll just be here," like, "yes, love, just
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:20.782
Be quiet."
00:24:20.782 --> 00:24:22.150
Or, when you need to speak your mind, "sweetheart, i need to
00:24:22.150 --> 00:24:23.885
Speak my mind."
00:24:23.885 --> 00:24:25.220
It doesn't really play out like that.
00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:27.289
It tends to be, i mean behind that is, you know, when you
00:24:27.289 --> 00:24:29.724
Won't say a word and i'm--it's making me crazy and i'm going,
00:24:29.724 --> 00:24:32.160
"what are you thinking?"
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:33.495
Or then when you decide, "i'm gonna tell you what i'm
00:24:33.495 --> 00:24:34.963
Thinking, you wanna know what i'm thinking?
00:24:34.963 --> 00:24:36.531
Here it is."
00:24:36.531 --> 00:24:37.866
Then i'm like, "okay, i'm gonna try to listen."
00:24:37.866 --> 00:24:39.367
And, you know, so that's what's behind those lyrics, but it's
00:24:39.367 --> 00:24:42.871
Funny how people, you hear them, you know, the way you kind of
00:24:42.871 --> 00:24:45.707
You wanna hear it.
00:24:45.707 --> 00:24:47.075
Kirk: well, how did you end up navigating through the
00:24:47.075 --> 00:24:51.313
Differences in your personalities?
00:24:51.313 --> 00:24:52.981
I mean, this is scary when, you know, your strengths are going
00:24:52.981 --> 00:24:57.018
That way and his are going this way.
00:24:57.018 --> 00:24:59.454
And your insecurities, the areas that you're fearful of
00:24:59.454 --> 00:25:05.093
Just collide.
00:25:05.093 --> 00:25:06.461
I mean, how do you navigate that stuff?
00:25:06.461 --> 00:25:09.431
Mary beth: i mean, to be honest, i think there were probably a
00:25:09.431 --> 00:25:12.334
Lot of years of just a ginormous cosmic collision.
00:25:12.334 --> 00:25:16.838
I mean just by--
00:25:16.838 --> 00:25:19.874
Steven: and then you're also living in a fishbowl with
00:25:19.874 --> 00:25:21.610
Everybody going, "the chapmans, you know, it must be perfect."
00:25:21.610 --> 00:25:25.714
Mary beth: sure, so many tears early on about i can't be the
00:25:25.714 --> 00:25:28.483
Wife of you.
00:25:28.483 --> 00:25:29.851
I mean, i can't, i can't live up to--i didn't sign up for this.
00:25:29.851 --> 00:25:33.989
I don't know how to do this.
00:25:33.989 --> 00:25:35.490
I don't know how to be this.
00:25:35.490 --> 00:25:36.825
I'm small town springfield, ohio.
00:25:36.825 --> 00:25:38.627
I'm just me.
00:25:38.627 --> 00:25:40.028
And yet it was important for me to be me and not change and not
00:25:40.028 --> 00:25:44.899
Try to fit some mold of.
00:25:44.899 --> 00:25:48.036
And so, i do think and i'm so sad for all the so so many hard,
00:25:48.036 --> 00:25:55.110
Hard years.
00:25:55.110 --> 00:25:56.444
But at the same time hard years also meant that we were hanging
00:25:56.444 --> 00:25:59.614
On and we knew that--i just remember so many prayers of,
00:25:59.614 --> 00:26:05.320
"lord, i know that you're using this man to speak to thousands
00:26:05.320 --> 00:26:08.990
Of people, and i know that that's a ton why this is
00:26:08.990 --> 00:26:11.693
So hard.
00:26:11.693 --> 00:26:13.061
Because the enemy would just love to take--i think he's been
00:26:13.061 --> 00:26:16.297
Taking fatal blows at our family."
00:26:16.297 --> 00:26:18.433
Clearly, our youngest daughter, i think that's a fatal blow by
00:26:18.433 --> 00:26:22.103
The enemy of trying to take apart what god had made so
00:26:22.103 --> 00:26:28.243
Beautiful between us.
00:26:28.243 --> 00:26:29.611
And so, really trying to focus on who the enemy is, and but
00:26:29.611 --> 00:26:34.549
Very, very difficult in many years, but knowing we loved each
00:26:34.549 --> 00:26:37.986
Other, knowing we weren't going anywhere, i read--during that
00:26:37.986 --> 00:26:43.625
Time i read, i don't know what year this would have been, but
00:26:43.625 --> 00:26:47.228
It was an interview with ruth graham about billy.
00:26:47.228 --> 00:26:49.831
And somebody asked ruth in this, i think, it was at her
00:26:49.831 --> 00:26:52.734
Autobiography, if she ever considered divorcing
00:26:52.734 --> 00:26:55.670
Billy graham.
00:26:55.670 --> 00:26:57.038
And she just, i would have loved to have known her at a deeper
00:26:57.038 --> 00:26:59.841
Level because she just so whimsical and just immediately
00:26:59.841 --> 00:27:02.711
Answered, "divorce, no.
00:27:02.711 --> 00:27:04.646
Murder, yes."
00:27:04.646 --> 00:27:05.980
And, you know, just, so, you know, i just, like, okay.
00:27:05.980 --> 00:27:09.751
Kirk: did you ever consider-- watch your back, steven.
00:27:09.751 --> 00:27:11.853
Steven: i know, i know.
00:27:11.853 --> 00:27:13.354
Mary beth: and obviously, honestly, but just the realness
00:27:13.354 --> 00:27:18.593
Of that, the realness of, can you imagine the enemy trying to
00:27:18.593 --> 00:27:22.263
Tear that marriage apart?
00:27:22.263 --> 00:27:23.631
Of course there's the attacks that come.
00:27:23.631 --> 00:27:25.834
Kirk: i have so much more that i want to ask you about with your
00:27:25.834 --> 00:27:28.069
Family, your kids, everything else.
00:27:28.069 --> 00:27:30.438
We're gonna take another break and coming up, steven and mary
00:27:30.438 --> 00:27:33.708
Beth are gonna share about their parenting styles and their
00:27:33.708 --> 00:27:37.612
Journey of raising kids.
00:27:37.612 --> 00:27:39.047
Stay with us.
00:27:39.047 --> 00:27:45.008
Stay with us.
00:27:45.008 --> 00:27:50.326
Kirk: welcome back.
00:27:53.829 --> 00:27:55.164
Steven curtis and mary beth chapman have written their
00:27:55.164 --> 00:27:57.533
Personal story of a life together in a new book called
00:27:57.533 --> 00:28:00.936
"still here: life together on the long way home."
00:28:00.936 --> 00:28:04.907
It makes you tear up, just the title of it, "on the long
00:28:04.907 --> 00:28:08.010
Way home."
00:28:08.010 --> 00:28:09.845
It is, you know, we want to arrive there together and it's a
00:28:09.845 --> 00:28:13.649
Long journey, hopefully a very long journey.
00:28:13.649 --> 00:28:17.520
But to get there and to make it across the finish line, we've
00:28:17.520 --> 00:28:21.090
Got to go through trials and challenges.
00:28:21.090 --> 00:28:22.792
And you talk in your book very honestly and transparently about
00:28:22.792 --> 00:28:26.028
Having marriage counseling.
00:28:26.028 --> 00:28:28.330
And again, we wouldn't think that a perfect christian couple
00:28:28.330 --> 00:28:32.368
Like you would need marriage counseling.
00:28:32.368 --> 00:28:36.705
What was that like?
00:28:36.705 --> 00:28:38.607
Do you value counseling after having gone through it?
00:28:38.607 --> 00:28:41.110
Steven: yeah, you know what, we--
00:28:41.110 --> 00:28:42.778
Mary beth: it's all of the things.
00:28:42.778 --> 00:28:44.113
It's good, it's bad, it's awful.
00:28:44.113 --> 00:28:45.481
Steven: it's good, it's terrible, good and terrible.
00:28:45.481 --> 00:28:46.816
Mary beth: i've gone kicking and screaming, and i've got--
00:28:46.816 --> 00:28:48.184
I drag him.
00:28:48.184 --> 00:28:49.518
I mean and he's dragged me and been fired by counselors.
00:28:49.518 --> 00:28:52.555
Steven: we have, we've had--
00:28:52.555 --> 00:28:53.923
Kirk: how do you get fired by the counselor?
00:28:53.923 --> 00:28:55.491
Mary beth: they scratch their head and go, "well,
00:28:55.491 --> 00:28:57.259
At least you're determined to be together."
00:28:57.259 --> 00:28:59.195
Steven: "i don't know why this is working and why are y'all
00:28:59.195 --> 00:29:01.630
Still here.
00:29:01.630 --> 00:29:03.265
I've used every, you know, every textbook answer i've got on you
00:29:03.265 --> 00:29:07.903
Guys, and it still doesn't seem to be any better.
00:29:07.903 --> 00:29:11.006
So, i'm done.
00:29:11.006 --> 00:29:14.877
I'm out of help for you.
00:29:14.877 --> 00:29:16.212
You know, so try somebody else, i guess.
00:29:16.212 --> 00:29:18.881
I don't know."
00:29:18.881 --> 00:29:20.449
We have literally, we've had that happen and it's kind of
00:29:20.449 --> 00:29:22.685
Like, wow, we're that much of a hard case.
00:29:22.685 --> 00:29:26.322
Mary beth: but we were also that determined.
00:29:26.322 --> 00:29:28.791
We were that determined--
00:29:28.791 --> 00:29:30.125
Kirk: it's not that counseling didn't work.
00:29:30.125 --> 00:29:31.493
It has benefits.
00:29:31.493 --> 00:29:32.828
Steven: yes, it has.
00:29:32.828 --> 00:29:34.163
Kirk: in what way did it benefit?
00:29:34.163 --> 00:29:35.531
Mary beth: we had a counselor, in particular, when we lost our
00:29:35.531 --> 00:29:39.501
Youngest daughter, of course, that created a whole different
00:29:39.501 --> 00:29:42.905
Kind of counseling that we needed, but it got hard and as
00:29:42.905 --> 00:29:46.442
You can imagine, super, super hard, super dark.
00:29:46.442 --> 00:29:49.645
But we felt like as we were coming out of it that we should
00:29:49.645 --> 00:29:52.514
Tour together.
00:29:52.514 --> 00:29:54.116
As a family we were keeping will, franklin, and caleb close
00:29:54.116 --> 00:29:57.720
To us, and emily, they were in steven's band at the time.
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:00.389
And so, we were all gonna go on the road and tour together and i
00:30:00.389 --> 00:30:03.926
Would talk a little bit about god's goodness in the darkness.
00:30:03.926 --> 00:30:08.764
But boy, when it came down to it, it was like, woo, i didn't
00:30:08.764 --> 00:30:12.167
Know if i could do it.
00:30:12.167 --> 00:30:13.535
We didn't know if the boys could do it.
00:30:13.535 --> 00:30:14.870
We were all sideways with each other.
00:30:14.870 --> 00:30:16.939
Again, going back to that, we have a very real enemy that
00:30:16.939 --> 00:30:19.141
Would like to take a photo--a fatal blow and not have any of
00:30:19.141 --> 00:30:22.011
This happen because we felt like maybe we'd be able to minister
00:30:22.011 --> 00:30:24.847
To some people going through other griefs.
00:30:24.847 --> 00:30:27.750
And but we just also didn't wanna be impostors because it
00:30:27.750 --> 00:30:30.552
Was really, really hard.
00:30:30.552 --> 00:30:31.954
And we had this counselor tell us, and i think probably part of
00:30:31.954 --> 00:30:35.391
The genesis of the book is, "okay, steven and mary beth,
00:30:35.391 --> 00:30:38.994
This has been so hard for you, such a hard journey, is it
00:30:38.994 --> 00:30:42.498
Enough to go on this tour and be together?
00:30:42.498 --> 00:30:46.135
You're walking on stage together, you're showing up and
00:30:46.135 --> 00:30:49.138
You're pushing back the darkness.
00:30:49.138 --> 00:30:50.506
Is it enough to just be together, and see what the
00:30:50.506 --> 00:30:53.609
Lord does?"
00:30:53.609 --> 00:30:54.944
And so, that spoke volumes to us as like, well, we are, we are
00:30:54.944 --> 00:30:58.647
Still together, dagonnit.
00:30:58.647 --> 00:31:00.015
Kirk: that's right.
00:31:00.015 --> 00:31:01.350
Mary beth: we've done that, you know, and.
00:31:01.350 --> 00:31:03.752
Steven: that was, yeah, that was a very important word, in fact i
00:31:03.752 --> 00:31:08.357
Wrote the song "together" after that that was on "the glorious
00:31:08.357 --> 00:31:11.961
Unfolding" record.
00:31:11.961 --> 00:31:15.230
That because that, you know, i was really, i mean, we had made
00:31:15.230 --> 00:31:19.935
The decision and all the wheels were in motion and you can
00:31:19.935 --> 00:31:22.705
Appreciate this, you know, better than most, it's like
00:31:22.705 --> 00:31:25.007
There's a lot of moving parts to put a tour in motion and all
00:31:25.007 --> 00:31:29.511
The, you know, promoters and tickets are being sold and
00:31:29.511 --> 00:31:32.948
Advertisement, and the record label, and everybody.
00:31:32.948 --> 00:31:35.784
And i literally just felt like, "i think this is a terrible
00:31:35.784 --> 00:31:40.456
Mistake and i really don't know," you know.
00:31:40.456 --> 00:31:43.125
I mean, we say it about the book at times going, "are we gonna
00:31:43.125 --> 00:31:46.562
Still be married when this book is done because that's not gonna
00:31:46.562 --> 00:31:49.098
Work well when you go to the publisher and say, hey, good
00:31:49.098 --> 00:31:51.567
Luck with that book, but sorry it didn't work."
00:31:51.567 --> 00:31:54.203
But we really was thinking about this going on this tour and
00:31:54.203 --> 00:31:57.339
Trying to really basically just say, "here's what we believe and
00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:04.046
We believe that god is still good even though this chapter of
00:32:04.046 --> 00:32:08.751
Our life is unbearably hard having lost our youngest, maria,
00:32:08.751 --> 00:32:12.421
And all the circumstances around it."
00:32:12.421 --> 00:32:14.556
And i remember just thinking, yeah, that, "we have all hell is
00:32:14.556 --> 00:32:20.229
Breaking loose against us," it felt like just.
00:32:20.229 --> 00:32:22.931
And i saw her hurting and suffering.
00:32:22.931 --> 00:32:26.268
And the last thing it seemed like made sense was for us to go
00:32:26.268 --> 00:32:29.872
Stand on stage and try to give testimony of god's faithfulness
00:32:29.872 --> 00:32:34.810
And goodness in this.
00:32:34.810 --> 00:32:36.145
Because i thought, "i don't know if we're gonna survive this.
00:32:36.145 --> 00:32:38.514
I believe by faith, but this would be terrible to get halfway
00:32:38.514 --> 00:32:41.784
Through this tour and, you know, the headlines are gonna just
00:32:41.784 --> 00:32:44.420
Really not look good on the lord, you know, that this family
00:32:44.420 --> 00:32:47.856
Imploded because of trying to do this."
00:32:47.856 --> 00:32:50.492
And but that was the word that, you know, and to your question
00:32:50.492 --> 00:32:54.229
Of, has there been counseling and things that have helped.
00:32:54.229 --> 00:32:58.500
And absolutely helping us understand how vastly different
00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:02.304
We are and, you know, and how we're wired, and understand that
00:33:02.304 --> 00:33:07.443
A bit about each other more has been helpful and come
00:33:07.443 --> 00:33:10.913
From counseling.
00:33:10.913 --> 00:33:12.448
Mary beth: and learning more about ourselves and, you know.
00:33:12.448 --> 00:33:15.651
Steven: so, for sure.
00:33:15.651 --> 00:33:17.119
Kirk: that is unbelievably valuable to all the rest of us
00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:19.988
Who grew up singing your songs and watching the two of you as
00:33:19.988 --> 00:33:25.360
Kids and knowing that, you know, you guys have got this great
00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:29.098
Beautiful family.
00:33:29.098 --> 00:33:30.466
But to watch you go through everything that you've gone
00:33:30.466 --> 00:33:31.800
Through and then to be so transparent about it in a book
00:33:31.800 --> 00:33:34.336
Like this.
00:33:34.336 --> 00:33:35.904
We've really been waiting for something like this because we
00:33:35.904 --> 00:33:38.740
Have our own struggles.
00:33:38.740 --> 00:33:40.109
Not just me and my wife, but i'm talking about a generation of
00:33:40.109 --> 00:33:43.178
Believers in the family of faith who want some trusted
00:33:43.178 --> 00:33:47.416
Friends that can walk through grief and loss and heartache
00:33:47.416 --> 00:33:50.552
And pain and struggle in relationship and balancing
00:33:50.552 --> 00:33:54.223
Life, family together with career, and then ministry is a
00:33:54.223 --> 00:33:58.026
Whole 'nother layer on top of that.
00:33:58.026 --> 00:34:00.996
It's not just work, it's the lord's work.
00:34:00.996 --> 00:34:03.432
And so then, you know, how could you have problems with that?
00:34:03.432 --> 00:34:06.135
Mary beth: yeah, that's right.
00:34:06.135 --> 00:34:07.469
Kirk: and so, all of these things are so very,
00:34:07.469 --> 00:34:11.373
Very important.
00:34:11.373 --> 00:34:12.808
Tell us how prayer has been essential to keep your
00:34:12.808 --> 00:34:17.146
Marriage together.
00:34:17.146 --> 00:34:18.981
Steven: that probably is one of the things that i felt like as
00:34:18.981 --> 00:34:23.418
We were writing this, if we didn't have any chapter about
00:34:23.418 --> 00:34:26.421
Anything, we need to talk about the power of and the importance
00:34:26.421 --> 00:34:31.693
Of prayer.
00:34:31.693 --> 00:34:34.129
Because i really do believe that has been--if there's been a
00:34:34.129 --> 00:34:39.034
Secret weapon, you know, against the enemy, it's been prayer.
00:34:39.034 --> 00:34:43.605
And not, i mean, so many would hear that and go, "oh, man,
00:34:43.605 --> 00:34:47.776
There i knew he was gonna probably say that because i
00:34:47.776 --> 00:34:49.411
Don't know how to pray good and i don't know, i don't know how
00:34:49.411 --> 00:34:51.547
To do it right and i don't--"
00:34:51.547 --> 00:34:52.981
And it--what i learned even, and we learned, i think,
00:34:52.981 --> 00:34:58.387
Particularly from the loss of maria, but throughout our whole
00:34:58.387 --> 00:35:01.423
Journey, you know, the psalms.
00:35:01.423 --> 00:35:03.525
I love how, you know, tim keller, who's one of my favorite
00:35:03.525 --> 00:35:08.163
Teacher-pastors now with the lord, talks about, you know,
00:35:08.163 --> 00:35:11.433
What the psalmist teaches us if we really read through.
00:35:11.433 --> 00:35:14.369
And i don't--a lot of this i missed until i think we lost
00:35:14.369 --> 00:35:17.206
Maria and i began to really identify with the, "how long, o
00:35:17.206 --> 00:35:20.309
Lord, are you gonna forget me forever?"
00:35:20.309 --> 00:35:22.044
You know, "where are you, god?
00:35:22.044 --> 00:35:23.412
I'm sinking, for the last time, i'm going down."
00:35:23.412 --> 00:35:26.448
You know, so many of those psalms that i couldn't even
00:35:26.448 --> 00:35:29.484
Really relate to until i got to those places.
00:35:29.484 --> 00:35:33.855
But throughout the psalms, the power of even those kind of
00:35:33.855 --> 00:35:38.193
Honest prayers of desperation that just say, "god, i'm feeling
00:35:38.193 --> 00:35:42.397
Anger, i'm feeling, you know, the despair.
00:35:42.397 --> 00:35:47.569
I'm feeling confused.
00:35:47.569 --> 00:35:49.538
I'm feeling all of the doubt, fear.
00:35:49.538 --> 00:35:54.109
But i'm bringing it to you.
00:35:54.109 --> 00:35:55.477
I'm just gonna bring it to you.
00:35:55.477 --> 00:35:56.812
Because i have nowhere else to go and you're the one who has
00:35:56.812 --> 00:35:59.248
The words of life, you're the one that can give life.
00:35:59.248 --> 00:36:01.583
You can breathe life into our marriage."
00:36:01.583 --> 00:36:03.185
So, those times that we even the last thing we wanted to do was
00:36:03.185 --> 00:36:06.488
To pray, that we would get on our knees, or we'd hold hands,
00:36:06.488 --> 00:36:11.026
And we would just say, "god, we have no idea--we have everything
00:36:11.026 --> 00:36:15.564
Inside of us right now does not wanna pray, we wanna run
00:36:15.564 --> 00:36:18.133
From you.
00:36:18.133 --> 00:36:19.501
But we gotta run to you and ask you to just help us take the
00:36:19.501 --> 00:36:23.972
Next breath, the next step, wherever that is.
00:36:23.972 --> 00:36:26.708
We just, we don't know, we don't know where to go.
00:36:26.708 --> 00:36:28.710
We don't know what we're doing, but we're looking to you."
00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:30.912
There's a great, you know, the old testament when the, you
00:36:30.912 --> 00:36:33.215
Know, the israelites, "we don't know what to do, we don't even
00:36:33.215 --> 00:36:35.450
Know what to do, we're just gonna look to you."
00:36:35.450 --> 00:36:38.053
And i feel like that's been our prayer.
00:36:38.053 --> 00:36:39.755
Mary beth: and i think prayer, it was an important piece of
00:36:39.755 --> 00:36:43.025
Modeling to our children in forgiveness.
00:36:43.025 --> 00:36:46.628
Like, when we would blow it with each other and like, there's
00:36:46.628 --> 00:36:49.064
Nobody on the planet i love more than this man and there's nobody
00:36:49.064 --> 00:36:52.167
That can infuriate me more than this man on this planet.
00:36:52.167 --> 00:36:55.203
But i mean, it's so great to talk about it now because we've
00:36:55.203 --> 00:36:58.273
Come so far, baby, we've come so far.
00:36:58.273 --> 00:37:00.375
But just when we would blow it in front of the kids, it was so
00:37:00.375 --> 00:37:05.113
Important for us to repair in front of the kids and get them
00:37:05.113 --> 00:37:09.084
Together and it's like we're gonna pray, mom and dad, we're
00:37:09.084 --> 00:37:11.586
Learning with you guys, we're learning how to love each other,
00:37:11.586 --> 00:37:14.022
We're learning how to do this.
00:37:14.022 --> 00:37:15.757
Again, going back to that, we have an enemy that doesn't want
00:37:15.757 --> 00:37:18.193
Dad to do what he does.
00:37:18.193 --> 00:37:19.561
Doesn't, you know, want us to be together as a family.
00:37:19.561 --> 00:37:21.830
And so, we're gonna pray against that and, you know, i've shared
00:37:21.830 --> 00:37:25.967
This story.
00:37:25.967 --> 00:37:27.302
Caleb, our oldest son,
00:37:27.302 --> 00:37:29.371
He wrote a--somebody asked him to write a blog on his parents,
00:37:29.371 --> 00:37:32.974
And he summed us up--so respectful writing about us, but
00:37:32.974 --> 00:37:36.878
He summed us up as, "my parents, they hobble, but they
00:37:36.878 --> 00:37:40.015
Hobble well.
00:37:40.015 --> 00:37:41.383
And, you know, they've taught me so much about, you know, walking
00:37:41.383 --> 00:37:44.853
In forgiveness of one another and repentance, you know, when
00:37:44.853 --> 00:37:49.458
They do it wrong.
00:37:49.458 --> 00:37:50.826
And so just that kind of prayer as well just to do that with
00:37:50.826 --> 00:37:54.996
Your kiddos.
00:37:54.996 --> 00:37:56.932
Kirk: i wanna talk about your parenting styles and how they
00:37:56.932 --> 00:37:59.101
Have changed over the years.
00:37:59.101 --> 00:38:00.969
But we've gotta go to a break.
00:38:00.969 --> 00:38:02.571
We're gonna be right back with more from steven and mary beth
00:38:02.571 --> 00:38:06.241
On parenting styles and then navigating joy, deep heartbreak,
00:38:06.241 --> 00:38:10.512
And faith in their long journey together, so don't go away.
00:38:10.512 --> 00:38:20.001
And faith in their long journey together, so don't go away.
00:38:20.001 --> 00:38:23.893
Kirk: we're back.
00:38:27.363 --> 00:38:28.731
Mary beth and her husband steven curtis chapman are our guests
00:38:28.731 --> 00:38:32.168
Today, sharing their life experiences of joy and heartache
00:38:32.168 --> 00:38:36.239
And the faithfulness of god through it all.
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:40.243
I'm just loving learning more and more about your story and
00:38:40.243 --> 00:38:44.814
Learning how you stayed together in this long journey.
00:38:44.814 --> 00:38:48.084
And you've got a journey that has been marked by both extreme
00:38:48.084 --> 00:38:53.489
Highs and also deep, deep lows.
00:38:53.489 --> 00:38:58.361
A lot of marriages can break apart going through things
00:38:58.361 --> 00:39:01.697
Like that.
00:39:01.697 --> 00:39:03.032
The loss of a children, a very demanding job, being in the
00:39:03.032 --> 00:39:09.038
Public eye.
00:39:09.038 --> 00:39:10.373
And many people don't even comprehend the struggles that
00:39:10.373 --> 00:39:13.810
Come with some of those things.
00:39:13.810 --> 00:39:17.146
How have you seen god sustain you through all of this?
00:39:17.146 --> 00:39:21.050
What do you think he's up to?
00:39:21.050 --> 00:39:22.885
Mary beth: yeah, well, obviously, the title of the book
00:39:22.885 --> 00:39:25.855
Is "still here," so all praise to jesus for keeping us
00:39:25.855 --> 00:39:30.059
Still here.
00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:31.494
We have had so many mountaintop experiences and some of the
00:39:31.494 --> 00:39:35.364
Worst pain that, you know, parents would endure, the loss
00:39:35.364 --> 00:39:38.234
Of a child, and it also involved another child.
00:39:38.234 --> 00:39:41.304
So, here's what i would say.
00:39:41.304 --> 00:39:43.973
Yesterday i was talking to someone, and these are the
00:39:43.973 --> 00:39:46.275
Things i don't think we understood walking through it,
00:39:46.275 --> 00:39:49.378
But i can reflect back on it.
00:39:49.378 --> 00:39:52.381
You know, we stood at the crib of our very first grandchild,
00:39:52.381 --> 00:39:56.252
Who is now 14 years old.
00:39:56.252 --> 00:39:58.087
But it was post the accident, post losing maria.
00:39:58.087 --> 00:40:01.591
And when our first grandbaby was born, she was born in ireland,
00:40:01.591 --> 00:40:04.460
So, of course, it was not just the birth, it was a big trek
00:40:04.460 --> 00:40:06.929
Over all of us, "we're all going to ireland, we're all gonna
00:40:06.929 --> 00:40:09.265
See this."
00:40:09.265 --> 00:40:10.600
She's my first grandbaby.
00:40:10.600 --> 00:40:11.968
Of course, i got there before him because i wasn't gonna
00:40:11.968 --> 00:40:13.469
Miss it, all of those things.
00:40:13.469 --> 00:40:15.338
But we stood at the crib of our first grandchild and, you know,
00:40:15.338 --> 00:40:18.307
Holding his hand, you know, it's a very sobering moment to go,
00:40:18.307 --> 00:40:23.179
"baby, we could have missed this."
00:40:23.179 --> 00:40:24.747
Like we could have missed this.
00:40:24.747 --> 00:40:26.949
God has sustained us standing here in this little closet that
00:40:26.949 --> 00:40:30.853
I helped my daughter make a nursery and could have missed
00:40:30.853 --> 00:40:33.422
Experienced our first grandchild together.
00:40:33.422 --> 00:40:36.993
And what i would say that i think is not super popular
00:40:36.993 --> 00:40:40.696
Because it's hard to talk about the hard things, we lost a child
00:40:40.696 --> 00:40:45.968
And that's the worst thing that i can think of for parents to
00:40:45.968 --> 00:40:49.705
Walk through.
00:40:49.705 --> 00:40:51.073
And i never want to take away from that, but i cannot sit here
00:40:51.073 --> 00:40:55.678
And say that because of that, what the lord provided us as a
00:40:55.678 --> 00:41:00.416
Family, provided for my son walking through it, the goodness
00:41:00.416 --> 00:41:04.954
Of things of healing that came, things that happened because of
00:41:04.954 --> 00:41:10.826
This terrible thing, and seeing how the lord has worked sad and
00:41:10.826 --> 00:41:15.965
Joy together, i am grateful that in spite of this terrible thing,
00:41:15.965 --> 00:41:24.340
The joy that has come after it, i don't think would have been at
00:41:24.340 --> 00:41:28.044
This level had it not been for the accident.
00:41:28.044 --> 00:41:31.147
And again, it's hard to say as a mom because all i want to be
00:41:31.147 --> 00:41:34.216
Able to do is be able to raise her, you know, and have her here
00:41:34.216 --> 00:41:37.787
With us.
00:41:37.787 --> 00:41:39.155
But because of the things my children have learned, we have
00:41:39.155 --> 00:41:42.224
Learned, we have experienced joy at such a deeper level.
00:41:42.224 --> 00:41:44.794
I'm so grateful that i can sit here and thank this man for
00:41:44.794 --> 00:41:48.731
Shepherding us through that and yeah, it's--
00:41:48.731 --> 00:41:54.337
Steven: yeah.
00:41:54.337 --> 00:41:55.671
Mary beth: it's complicated and beautiful.
00:41:55.671 --> 00:41:57.039
Steven: and that can only be said because we are anchored in
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:02.612
Something that is beyond this life.
00:42:02.612 --> 00:42:05.781
Paul says, "if our hope is only for this life, we're, i think,
00:42:05.781 --> 00:42:08.851
This is to be pitied."
00:42:08.851 --> 00:42:10.419
He uses that word, or at least the translation that, if our
00:42:10.419 --> 00:42:13.322
Hope is only, "man, can we just get the best life here, you
00:42:13.322 --> 00:42:17.059
Know, that we possibly can, that's what a good life is,
00:42:17.059 --> 00:42:21.130
Long, healthy, happy, you know, all of those things."
00:42:21.130 --> 00:42:24.367
And those are all parts of what god, you know, gives us
00:42:24.367 --> 00:42:29.105
Moments of.
00:42:29.105 --> 00:42:30.439
But what if it's a whole lot more about really believing that
00:42:30.439 --> 00:42:34.644
Our hope is anchored in something beyond this life, so
00:42:34.644 --> 00:42:38.280
We can walk through those moments and those seasons
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:44.053
Believing that god really is doing something.
00:42:44.053 --> 00:42:46.989
He's not gonna waste any of that, that he really is working
00:42:46.989 --> 00:42:50.359
All of these things together somehow for our good and for
00:42:50.359 --> 00:42:54.764
His glory.
00:42:54.764 --> 00:42:56.132
Can we really hold on to that?
00:42:56.132 --> 00:42:57.466
Can we really drop our anchor in that?
00:42:57.466 --> 00:42:59.035
And then in this journey we get to have amazing moments that
00:42:59.035 --> 00:43:03.873
Say, "and it's so worth it to stay on this journey together."
00:43:03.873 --> 00:43:07.977
Mary beth: and to steal another quote from tim keller, "what if
00:43:07.977 --> 00:43:11.147
Marriage, family, all of these things that the lord shepherds
00:43:11.147 --> 00:43:17.086
Us through, the highs and the lows, are more about making us
00:43:17.086 --> 00:43:20.156
Holy, not happy."
00:43:20.156 --> 00:43:22.458
So, that's very countercultural, right?
00:43:22.458 --> 00:43:24.827
We wanna be happy.
00:43:24.827 --> 00:43:26.195
We wanna be satisfied in each other and we wanna just have the
00:43:26.195 --> 00:43:28.364
Best of everything.
00:43:28.364 --> 00:43:29.832
But what if it's about, really, our journey home, the long
00:43:29.832 --> 00:43:33.135
Journey home about becoming more holy than happy.
00:43:33.135 --> 00:43:37.173
Kirk: my wife and i have met many couples over the last 20,
00:43:37.173 --> 00:43:40.976
30 years, whose children have passed away from cancer and
00:43:40.976 --> 00:43:46.315
Other kinds of things.
00:43:46.315 --> 00:43:47.783
And we've seen so many of those couples break up.
00:43:47.783 --> 00:43:51.887
The divorce rate is very high.
00:43:51.887 --> 00:43:53.622
What is it about the character of the god you believe in that
00:43:57.126 --> 00:44:03.432
Allows you to still trust him when he could have written your
00:44:03.432 --> 00:44:07.470
Story differently?
00:44:07.470 --> 00:44:09.472
Mary beth: oh yes, we ask him that every day.
00:44:09.472 --> 00:44:12.875
We--i have railed against the lord, and he's so good.
00:44:12.875 --> 00:44:17.780
And i can't--i mean, when maria passed, i think one of the very
00:44:17.780 --> 00:44:22.952
First phone calls was scotty sitting us down or coming to see
00:44:22.952 --> 00:44:25.821
Us and saying, "and you know the percentage rates of families who
00:44:25.821 --> 00:44:29.291
Divorce because of the loss of a child."
00:44:29.291 --> 00:44:30.860
So, he already knew our story, he already knew the years of
00:44:30.860 --> 00:44:33.929
Hard that had already ensued of just trying to do it right and
00:44:33.929 --> 00:44:37.700
Wanting to be so good at everything, like meaning
00:44:37.700 --> 00:44:40.369
Marriage, family, all the things.
00:44:40.369 --> 00:44:42.338
And so, he's like, "we've got-- we're gonna get you with the
00:44:42.338 --> 00:44:45.908
Right people, the right counselors, the right people to
00:44:45.908 --> 00:44:47.977
Talk with."
00:44:47.977 --> 00:44:49.311
And i'm like, this is gonna be a long life.
00:44:49.311 --> 00:44:52.615
From here on out it's gonna be a long life.
00:44:52.615 --> 00:44:55.184
And i have argued, i have screamed, i have wanted to
00:44:55.184 --> 00:45:03.526
Walk away.
00:45:03.526 --> 00:45:04.894
And i tell people i went on a free fall of faith and i landed
00:45:04.894 --> 00:45:07.530
On a solid platform.
00:45:07.530 --> 00:45:09.265
I might have face planted, but i landed.
00:45:09.265 --> 00:45:11.433
And the god that i believe in and what he's been able to do in
00:45:11.433 --> 00:45:17.673
Our family is good, and he's true, and it's real, it's
00:45:17.673 --> 00:45:20.609
All real.
00:45:20.609 --> 00:45:21.944
And that's what we kept saying all through the process of us
00:45:21.944 --> 00:45:24.713
Losing maria and, in particularly, you know, i know
00:45:24.713 --> 00:45:27.817
That maria is whole and healed and in heaven.
00:45:27.817 --> 00:45:30.820
I have a son who walks with a great ache.
00:45:30.820 --> 00:45:33.923
And so, to really trust the lord with that has been my hardest
00:45:33.923 --> 00:45:38.661
Place because watching him parent, you know, and see
00:45:38.661 --> 00:45:44.366
Sometimes the fear or the anxiety that's there, but
00:45:44.366 --> 00:45:48.204
Trusting jesus to finish what he completed, and he is in a
00:45:48.204 --> 00:45:51.674
Complete different space with the lord that, i believe, he
00:45:51.674 --> 00:45:54.610
Would have been had this not happened.
00:45:54.610 --> 00:45:56.478
And so, the god that i serve is alive.
00:45:56.478 --> 00:46:00.749
That's what i'll say because it--we shouldn't be
00:46:00.749 --> 00:46:03.652
Sitting here.
00:46:03.652 --> 00:46:05.020
There's no other explanation.
00:46:05.020 --> 00:46:07.890
And choosing to believe it when the other voice, "the screwtape
00:46:07.890 --> 00:46:12.528
Letters," you know, the evil voice over here going, "see,
00:46:12.528 --> 00:46:16.532
He's not good.
00:46:16.532 --> 00:46:17.867
See, he did that.
00:46:17.867 --> 00:46:19.235
He did that to you.
00:46:19.235 --> 00:46:20.569
He could have stopped it.
00:46:20.569 --> 00:46:23.272
If he was really real, if he was really real," and, you know,
00:46:23.272 --> 00:46:25.007
And just believing the voice of truth is powerful, the
00:46:25.007 --> 00:46:27.810
Voice of truth.
00:46:27.810 --> 00:46:29.912
Steven: and really believing that, you know, that we have a
00:46:29.912 --> 00:46:36.185
Heavenly father who lost a child.
00:46:36.185 --> 00:46:40.522
And what that means, that we can go to him and really believe
00:46:40.522 --> 00:46:49.698
That he does know, he does understand.
00:46:49.698 --> 00:46:56.772
He has been on the table, as they say.
00:46:56.772 --> 00:46:59.909
You know, we can approach because he really is one who is
00:46:59.909 --> 00:47:06.515
With us, god with us.
00:47:06.515 --> 00:47:08.450
There's so much to that that, i think, we have learned and are
00:47:08.450 --> 00:47:12.855
Continuing to learn.
00:47:12.855 --> 00:47:14.189
Can we really trust him?
00:47:14.189 --> 00:47:15.624
We can trust a god who lost his own son willingly for love of
00:47:15.624 --> 00:47:23.532
Us, for our sake.
00:47:23.532 --> 00:47:26.802
Kirk: that's so deep.
00:47:26.802 --> 00:47:28.137
I honestly had not ever considered what you're saying
00:47:28.137 --> 00:47:31.473
Right now that god the father has lost a child.
00:47:31.473 --> 00:47:36.812
And he didn't just lose a child, he gave a child.
00:47:36.812 --> 00:47:40.582
I mean, if you could go back, i imagine like if we could rewrite
00:47:40.582 --> 00:47:44.720
Our own stories, we would have changed, but the lord
00:47:44.720 --> 00:47:49.591
In eternity past said, "i'm writing the story."
00:47:49.591 --> 00:47:55.297
And yet we see now that he worked all things together for
00:47:55.297 --> 00:48:00.302
Good and to put on display his kindness and his mercy and
00:48:00.302 --> 00:48:05.708
His grace.
00:48:05.708 --> 00:48:07.076
And it was all self-sacrificing love, and it wins for his family
00:48:07.076 --> 00:48:12.815
In the end.
00:48:12.815 --> 00:48:14.149
And we just think, "that's the god i can trust."
00:48:14.149 --> 00:48:17.753
In closing, what's the one takeaway, mary beth, you hope
00:48:17.753 --> 00:48:21.256
People will get when they read your book?
00:48:21.256 --> 00:48:26.095
Mary beth: i think, you know, i have this picture of us.
00:48:26.095 --> 00:48:29.865
I have seven grandchildren, who are very different
00:48:29.865 --> 00:48:32.868
In personality.
00:48:32.868 --> 00:48:34.203
But i cannot wait to be, not that i'm not older already, but
00:48:34.203 --> 00:48:39.541
I can't wait to be an older woman in a rocking chair holding
00:48:39.541 --> 00:48:43.812
This one's hands, rocking, watching my children parent some
00:48:43.812 --> 00:48:47.583
Of the personalities that we have and just going, "you know
00:48:47.583 --> 00:48:51.453
What, we made it, baby.
00:48:51.453 --> 00:48:52.821
We're sitting here."
00:48:52.821 --> 00:48:54.156
We're sitting here, and i love him more today than i did the
00:48:54.156 --> 00:48:58.193
Day i married you, which that's good.
00:48:58.193 --> 00:48:59.661
We haven't taken any steps backwards.
00:48:59.661 --> 00:49:01.864
You know, we're stepping forward.
00:49:01.864 --> 00:49:03.232
How was that--
00:49:03.232 --> 00:49:04.566
You know, and just the takeaway is, i really do think we have to
00:49:04.566 --> 00:49:09.938
Take a good hard look at laying our life down for our spouse and
00:49:09.938 --> 00:49:15.477
To bear with one another in love.
00:49:15.477 --> 00:49:16.812
I don't think that's probably one of the most popular things
00:49:16.812 --> 00:49:20.682
To say.
00:49:20.682 --> 00:49:22.451
And i say that with, obviously, there are things that cannot be
00:49:22.451 --> 00:49:25.554
Excused and i'm not saying that it's, you know, carte blanc, but
00:49:25.554 --> 00:49:29.725
To really i hope people see that it's worth it.
00:49:29.725 --> 00:49:32.895
In the end, it's worth it to just be here together.
00:49:32.895 --> 00:49:36.532
I watched, a year ago i watched this man be inducted into the
00:49:36.532 --> 00:49:39.935
Grand ole opry.
00:49:39.935 --> 00:49:41.437
And he had visions of that when he was a young kid, and for us
00:49:41.437 --> 00:49:45.374
To be able to walk through that and maybe somewhat of a champion
00:49:45.374 --> 00:49:49.211
For that and to see us do it, like he did it, he like--they
00:49:49.211 --> 00:49:54.049
Put him in the opry, and like we're walking around like old
00:49:54.049 --> 00:49:57.152
People that we are, going, "the life that we've lived, we get to
00:49:57.152 --> 00:50:00.789
Do this together, and we're gonna hopefully finish it
00:50:00.789 --> 00:50:03.225
Together, yeah."
00:50:03.225 --> 00:50:05.761
Kirk: how about you, steven?
00:50:05.761 --> 00:50:07.129
What takeaway?
00:50:07.129 --> 00:50:08.464
Steven: she really said it.
00:50:08.464 --> 00:50:09.832
It's the last chapter is called "it's worth it."
00:50:09.832 --> 00:50:11.467
And i just think there's something about, you know,
00:50:11.467 --> 00:50:14.603
Again, i just, for the joy set before him, he endured, as is,
00:50:14.603 --> 00:50:20.075
You know, our savior, the one that, you know, our eyes are on.
00:50:20.075 --> 00:50:23.445
And that is, there's so much in that for the joy that is before
00:50:23.445 --> 00:50:27.116
Us we walk through believing that it's worth it and there's
00:50:27.116 --> 00:50:31.153
Something so worth this journey, this long way home.
00:50:31.153 --> 00:50:37.226
And just staying on that journey believing that it truly is
00:50:37.226 --> 00:50:40.662
Worth it.
00:50:40.662 --> 00:50:42.131
Kirk: yeah, thank you so much.
00:50:42.131 --> 00:50:44.700
So great to talk with you.
00:50:44.700 --> 00:50:46.101
Thank you for sharing this with us.
00:50:46.101 --> 00:50:47.469
Steven: love you, brother.
00:50:47.469 --> 00:50:48.804
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:50:48.804 --> 00:50:56.008
Kirk: after the break, we'll review today's takeaways.
00:50:56.008 --> 00:50:59.225
Kirk: when i asked steven and mary beth for one takeaway, they
00:51:03.429 --> 00:51:06.299
Didn't hesitate.
00:51:06.299 --> 00:51:07.667
It's worth it.
00:51:07.667 --> 00:51:09.269
Forty years of marriage, the highest highs, the lowest lows,
00:51:09.269 --> 00:51:12.539
And they're still here.
00:51:12.539 --> 00:51:14.774
Which brings us to our first takeaway.
00:51:14.774 --> 00:51:17.310
Bear with one another in love.
00:51:17.310 --> 00:51:19.779
Mary beth said that you could sum up the whole book in one
00:51:19.779 --> 00:51:22.215
Sentence, bear with one another in love.
00:51:22.215 --> 00:51:25.919
Steven said, "patience actually means longsuffering."
00:51:25.919 --> 00:51:30.924
You carry the weight of each other's flaws, and that draws
00:51:30.924 --> 00:51:34.827
You closer to jesus because that's exactly what he did
00:51:34.827 --> 00:51:38.464
For us.
00:51:38.464 --> 00:51:39.832
Mary beth added, "he's not my enemy.
00:51:39.832 --> 00:51:43.102
There's an enemy, but steven's the man i wanna go the
00:51:43.102 --> 00:51:46.573
Distance with."
00:51:46.573 --> 00:51:48.841
Prayer is the secret weapon.
00:51:48.841 --> 00:51:51.778
Steven said, if there's been a secret weapon in their marriage,
00:51:51.778 --> 00:51:55.048
It's been prayer.
00:51:55.048 --> 00:51:56.783
Not perfect prayer, but desperate prayer.
00:51:56.783 --> 00:51:59.652
He said that there were times when they didn't even want to
00:51:59.652 --> 00:52:01.821
Pray, but they got on their knees anyway and said, "lord, we
00:52:01.821 --> 00:52:05.925
Have no idea what we're doing, but we're looking to you."
00:52:05.925 --> 00:52:09.929
Prayer isn't about getting it right, it's about not giving up.
00:52:09.929 --> 00:52:15.602
God lost a child too.
00:52:15.602 --> 00:52:18.538
Steven and mary beth lost their youngest daughter, maria,
00:52:18.538 --> 00:52:22.375
The kind of loss that breaks most couples.
00:52:22.375 --> 00:52:25.712
But they reminded us that we have a heavenly father who lost
00:52:25.712 --> 00:52:29.249
A child too.
00:52:29.249 --> 00:52:30.617
In fact, he didn't just lose his son, he gave his son for us.
00:52:30.617 --> 00:52:35.688
That's a god we can trust with our pain.
00:52:35.688 --> 00:52:39.025
It's complicated and it's beautiful.
00:52:39.025 --> 00:52:41.928
Your son caleb said it best, "my parents hobble, but they
00:52:41.928 --> 00:52:45.465
Hobble well."
00:52:45.465 --> 00:52:47.634
That's all for this episode of "takeaways."
00:52:47.634 --> 00:52:49.435
Thanks for watching.
00:52:49.435 --> 00:52:50.770
And if you've enjoyed this show, don't forget to set your dvr so
00:52:50.770 --> 00:52:53.773
You never miss an episode.
00:52:53.773 --> 00:52:55.541
And, of course, you can always catch up on past episodes by
00:52:55.541 --> 00:52:58.444
Searching for "takeaways" on tbn+ or by visiting the "kirk
00:52:58.444 --> 00:53:02.548
Cameron on tbn" youtube channel.
00:53:02.548 --> 00:53:05.184
We'll see you here next time for more great conversations.
00:53:05.184 --> 00:53:11.324
♪♪♪
00:53:14.661 --> 00:53:25.008

Steven Curtis and Mary Beth Chapman: God’s Faithfulness through Seasons of Life | Takeaways with Kirk Cameron

April 6, 2026 | 53:25

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