Better Together LIVE | Episode 76 | TBN

Better Together LIVE | Episode 76

Watch Better Together LIVE | Episode 76
July 20, 2020
26:29

Are you struggling to let go of something or someone that has hurt you? There is freedom in learning how to forgive as God has forgiven us. Let’s talk about it! | TBN Prayer Line: 1-888-731-1000

Closed captions

Better Together LIVE | Episode 76

Show timecode
Hide timecode
  • - God so loved the world,He sent his only son
  • 00:00:01.349 --> 00:00:04.419
  • to pay the price for our sins.
  • 00:00:04.419 --> 00:00:06.621
  • Forgiveness came to usby the way of the cross.
  • 00:00:06.621 --> 00:00:09.357
  • So how can we learn toforgive in the same way
  • 00:00:09.357 --> 00:00:11.593
  • that God has forgiven us?
  • 00:00:11.593 --> 00:00:12.761
  • Come on, let's talk about it.
  • 00:00:12.761 --> 00:00:14.663
  • (upbeat music)
  • 00:00:14.663 --> 00:00:17.199
  • And welcome back toBetter Together, weare Back in the Box.
  • 00:00:40.122 --> 00:00:44.426
  • Last week we werefree for a moment
  • 00:00:44.426 --> 00:00:47.529
  • and this week, July 20th, weare back in our little boxes,
  • 00:00:47.529 --> 00:00:52.534
  • this is what we callBack in the Box.
  • 00:00:53.668 --> 00:00:55.170
  • Hi girls, we're gonna havea great week this week.
  • 00:00:55.170 --> 00:00:58.340
  • We're talking aboutforgiveness this week.
  • 00:00:58.340 --> 00:01:01.243
  • And you know, as we look around,
  • 00:01:01.243 --> 00:01:04.312
  • there's a whole lot going on
  • 00:01:05.413 --> 00:01:07.182
  • and I think we havea great opportunity
  • 00:01:07.182 --> 00:01:11.419
  • to walk in a lot oflove and a lot of grace
  • 00:01:11.419 --> 00:01:14.456
  • and a lot of peaceand a lot of rest,
  • 00:01:14.456 --> 00:01:16.791
  • and forgiveness, I think isthe start of a lot of that.
  • 00:01:16.791 --> 00:01:21.796
  • And so we're gonna talkall about it this week
  • 00:01:22.998 --> 00:01:24.666
  • and we're gonna startlearning to forgive together
  • 00:01:24.666 --> 00:01:29.638
  • and I think it's justgonna be great for you.
  • 00:01:30.839 --> 00:01:32.641
  • So Sheila, are youquick to forgive
  • 00:01:32.641 --> 00:01:36.044
  • or does it liketake you a minute?
  • 00:01:36.044 --> 00:01:38.013
  • - You know, honestly,it's one of the things
  • 00:01:40.148 --> 00:01:41.550
  • that I've been learningthe most about,
  • 00:01:41.550 --> 00:01:43.451
  • I would say inthe last 10 years,
  • 00:01:43.451 --> 00:01:46.388
  • And I used to think Iwas pretty good at that,
  • 00:01:46.388 --> 00:01:49.124
  • that I wouldimmediately forgive,
  • 00:01:49.124 --> 00:01:51.126
  • but I think the hardestthing is when it's somebody
  • 00:01:51.126 --> 00:01:54.196
  • that you love andtrust who hurts you.
  • 00:01:54.196 --> 00:01:56.865
  • I had, an experiencelike that with somebody
  • 00:01:56.865 --> 00:01:59.134
  • who honestly, to me in my mind,
  • 00:01:59.134 --> 00:02:00.969
  • was one of my closest friends.
  • 00:02:00.969 --> 00:02:03.071
  • And then when I had a breakdown
  • 00:02:03.071 --> 00:02:04.506
  • and I ended up in apsychiatric hospital,
  • 00:02:04.506 --> 00:02:07.209
  • that person wrote aletter to me and said,
  • 00:02:07.209 --> 00:02:09.578
  • "I just want you to knowwe are no longer friends.
  • 00:02:09.578 --> 00:02:12.347
  • And it was justkind of devastating.
  • 00:02:12.347 --> 00:02:14.249
  • And I remember after Igot out of the hospital
  • 00:02:14.249 --> 00:02:16.952
  • actually going towhere that person lived
  • 00:02:16.952 --> 00:02:19.721
  • and sitting down with themand trying to explain,
  • 00:02:19.721 --> 00:02:22.123
  • you know, whathad been going on,
  • 00:02:22.123 --> 00:02:23.425
  • I'd been diagnosed withclinical depression,
  • 00:02:23.425 --> 00:02:26.461
  • and they asked me a questionand they said, you know,
  • 00:02:26.461 --> 00:02:29.698
  • "I just need to know, areyou taking medication?"
  • 00:02:29.698 --> 00:02:32.067
  • And I said, "Yes, I am."
  • 00:02:32.067 --> 00:02:33.501
  • And they said, "Thenwe're no longer friends."
  • 00:02:33.501 --> 00:02:36.004
  • And it really, I mean,it really broke my heart.
  • 00:02:36.004 --> 00:02:38.707
  • And yet I discovered thatit was the kind of wound,
  • 00:02:38.707 --> 00:02:42.844
  • you know, it's likesomebody that you love,
  • 00:02:42.844 --> 00:02:45.113
  • that you count on, somebodybelieve you can depend on.
  • 00:02:45.113 --> 00:02:48.750
  • And I went back a second time,
  • 00:02:48.750 --> 00:02:51.419
  • and they didn't wantany kind of restoration
  • 00:02:51.419 --> 00:02:54.589
  • and I felt stuck, that was thething for me, I felt stuck.
  • 00:02:54.589 --> 00:02:57.726
  • And I remember talking tothe Lord about it and saying,
  • 00:02:57.726 --> 00:02:59.594
  • "Lord, what do I do whenthat person doesn't even
  • 00:02:59.594 --> 00:03:03.898
  • want forgiveness or doesn'tfeel that they need forgiveness?
  • 00:03:03.898 --> 00:03:07.002
  • They feel like they shouldbe the one forgiving me
  • 00:03:07.002 --> 00:03:09.604
  • for being fragileand being broken."
  • 00:03:09.604 --> 00:03:12.974
  • And I think one ofthe greatest lessons
  • 00:03:12.974 --> 00:03:14.643
  • that the Lord taught me,
  • 00:03:14.643 --> 00:03:16.144
  • was that the other persondoesn't have to be on board
  • 00:03:16.144 --> 00:03:19.681
  • for you to be able to forgive.
  • 00:03:19.681 --> 00:03:22.217
  • And it was probably, Idon't know, four years ago,
  • 00:03:22.217 --> 00:03:25.620
  • that I actually bumpedinto that person again.
  • 00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:28.923
  • And I could tellI'd forgiving them
  • 00:03:28.923 --> 00:03:30.792
  • because I didn't have anyof the old feelings rise up,
  • 00:03:30.792 --> 00:03:33.762
  • but they were the onewho then said to me,
  • 00:03:33.762 --> 00:03:35.430
  • "Listen, please forgive me.
  • 00:03:35.430 --> 00:03:37.666
  • I had so much of what wasgoing on in your life,
  • 00:03:37.666 --> 00:03:40.035
  • what's going on in mine,and I felt if somehow
  • 00:03:40.035 --> 00:03:42.671
  • I could punish you,I would be free."
  • 00:03:42.671 --> 00:03:45.240
  • But I really believethat learning to forgive
  • 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.910
  • is one of the greatestthings we will ever, ever do
  • 00:03:48.910 --> 00:03:52.647
  • as a follower of Christ.
  • 00:03:52.647 --> 00:03:54.516
  • - That is very true.
  • 00:03:54.516 --> 00:03:57.686
  • It's one of thehardest things to do.
  • 00:03:57.686 --> 00:03:59.554
  • Like you Sheila,I think I thought
  • 00:03:59.554 --> 00:04:01.423
  • that I was a personwho forgave well
  • 00:04:02.557 --> 00:04:06.094
  • until someone who'sclose to you actually
  • 00:04:06.094 --> 00:04:09.197
  • is the one that hurtsyou and you realize
  • 00:04:09.197 --> 00:04:11.266
  • forgiveness is adecision that you manage
  • 00:04:11.266 --> 00:04:14.736
  • over and over again.
  • 00:04:14.736 --> 00:04:16.671
  • And it put intoperspective the scripture
  • 00:04:16.671 --> 00:04:20.141
  • where the Lord says,"Forgive 70 times seven."
  • 00:04:20.141 --> 00:04:23.611
  • And that's just as manytimes as you can think.
  • 00:04:23.611 --> 00:04:27.816
  • Forgive again, andjust remembering tomanage the decision,
  • 00:04:27.816 --> 00:04:31.986
  • having the courage in theoriginal moment to say,
  • 00:04:31.986 --> 00:04:35.523
  • "I forgive this personfor what they did."
  • 00:04:35.523 --> 00:04:37.692
  • And then having the courageevery time it pops back up
  • 00:04:37.692 --> 00:04:41.296
  • to say, "And Iforgive them again,
  • 00:04:41.296 --> 00:04:43.365
  • and I'm going totreat them today.
  • 00:04:43.365 --> 00:04:45.400
  • I'm gonna treat evenmy thoughts toward them
  • 00:04:45.400 --> 00:04:48.403
  • with that same forgivenessthat I've decided on."
  • 00:04:48.403 --> 00:04:50.872
  • - Yeah, forgivenessis a very interesting
  • 00:04:52.941 --> 00:04:57.679
  • topic for me as well,but I think I do,
  • 00:04:57.679 --> 00:05:02.684
  • I try to model likehow God forgives me
  • 00:05:03.885 --> 00:05:06.388
  • to keep everythinginto my view side.
  • 00:05:06.388 --> 00:05:11.393
  • So where I can rememberhow God has forgiven me
  • 00:05:13.361 --> 00:05:16.865
  • over and over and over again,
  • 00:05:16.865 --> 00:05:19.834
  • and he doesn't treatme differently oncehe does forgive me
  • 00:05:19.834 --> 00:05:23.438
  • and I've tried toadapt that and use that
  • 00:05:23.438 --> 00:05:27.208
  • for how I forgive others.
  • 00:05:27.208 --> 00:05:31.079
  • And my parents, whenI was really little,
  • 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:33.681
  • they would make me so angry.
  • 00:05:33.681 --> 00:05:35.917
  • And I would go to my roomand my mom would be like,
  • 00:05:35.917 --> 00:05:39.888
  • "Go ahead, you can sit upthere for like five minutes
  • 00:05:39.888 --> 00:05:42.891
  • and then you'll haveto come back down
  • 00:05:42.891 --> 00:05:44.826
  • and you'll have to be okay."
  • 00:05:44.826 --> 00:05:47.162
  • And I'm like, "Itdoesn't work that way."
  • 00:05:47.162 --> 00:05:49.063
  • She was like, "No, yes, youdon't have any minute to waste
  • 00:05:49.063 --> 00:05:52.967
  • having anger oranything in your heart.
  • 00:05:52.967 --> 00:05:56.404
  • Like there's so much workthat needs to be done."
  • 00:05:56.404 --> 00:05:59.040
  • You have to forgivethe situation,
  • 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.209
  • let it go and get the work done.
  • 00:06:01.209 --> 00:06:03.344
  • So go ahead and sit in therefor a second and then move on.
  • 00:06:03.344 --> 00:06:08.316
  • So that, and rememberingthat God has forgiven me
  • 00:06:08.316 --> 00:06:11.719
  • over and over again,has definitely helped me
  • 00:06:11.719 --> 00:06:15.390
  • to keep forgivenessin the forefront
  • 00:06:15.390 --> 00:06:18.026
  • of when I'm dealing with others.
  • 00:06:18.026 --> 00:06:20.395
  • - You know that comes,that Bible verse
  • 00:06:20.395 --> 00:06:24.399
  • about 70 times seven,
  • 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.035
  • that comes from Matthewchapter verse 18.
  • 00:06:27.035 --> 00:06:31.639
  • And Jesus was trying to teach us
  • 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:35.343
  • that forgiveness issupposed to be unlimited.
  • 00:06:35.343 --> 00:06:40.348
  • And that's what Britneyis talking about there,
  • 00:06:41.549 --> 00:06:43.651
  • is that we're supposed tonot just 490 times a day
  • 00:06:43.651 --> 00:06:48.656
  • for the same sin andforgive somebody,
  • 00:06:50.091 --> 00:06:52.961
  • I mean, that sounds evenlike outrageous already,
  • 00:06:52.961 --> 00:06:56.731
  • but the idea here was aparable that Jesus told us.
  • 00:06:56.731 --> 00:07:01.603
  • And he was teaching usthat there was a king
  • 00:07:01.603 --> 00:07:06.608
  • who had a servant.
  • 00:07:07.342 --> 00:07:09.377
  • And this servantwanted to be forgiven
  • 00:07:09.377 --> 00:07:13.047
  • of a debt that the service owed.
  • 00:07:13.047 --> 00:07:16.284
  • And that servant owedsomething like $4 billion
  • 00:07:16.284 --> 00:07:20.355
  • in our modern money,it's 10.000 talents,
  • 00:07:21.556 --> 00:07:24.959
  • which was an ancientmoney, but in modern money,
  • 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:28.263
  • that's $4 billion and ofcourse he couldn't pay it.
  • 00:07:28.263 --> 00:07:32.734
  • Now Jesus was teaching us areally important idea here,
  • 00:07:32.734 --> 00:07:37.071
  • is that we need, wecan't pay God back
  • 00:07:37.071 --> 00:07:41.809
  • for how much we owe Him,because we're imperfect.
  • 00:07:41.809 --> 00:07:46.814
  • We make mistakes all the time,
  • 00:07:47.682 --> 00:07:49.751
  • and that's whatJesus was teaching.
  • 00:07:49.751 --> 00:07:52.253
  • But this servant whoowed this $4 billion,
  • 00:07:52.253 --> 00:07:56.291
  • he begged and the King said,"Yes, you're forgiven."
  • 00:07:57.692 --> 00:08:01.296
  • So the King released him,
  • 00:08:01.296 --> 00:08:03.031
  • and do you know what thatunmerciful servant did?
  • 00:08:03.031 --> 00:08:06.034
  • He went and found somebodywho owed him money
  • 00:08:06.034 --> 00:08:10.371
  • and it would be about $4.000.
  • 00:08:10.371 --> 00:08:14.375
  • And he had that friendwho owed him that money,
  • 00:08:14.375 --> 00:08:18.980
  • thrown in jail.
  • 00:08:18.980 --> 00:08:20.982
  • Now, what Jesus wasteaching is that,
  • 00:08:20.982 --> 00:08:24.352
  • we hold other people hostage.
  • 00:08:24.352 --> 00:08:27.889
  • We won't forgivewhen God forgives us.
  • 00:08:28.990 --> 00:08:32.760
  • It was very clear thatJesus was teaching us
  • 00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:36.731
  • that we won't be forgivenif we don't forgive.
  • 00:08:36.731 --> 00:08:40.168
  • What's the rest of that story.
  • 00:08:40.168 --> 00:08:42.704
  • The rest of the story was,that when the king found out,
  • 00:08:42.704 --> 00:08:47.575
  • he was so angry withthe unmerciful servant,
  • 00:08:47.575 --> 00:08:52.280
  • that he called him back
  • 00:08:52.280 --> 00:08:54.582
  • and he threw himinto debtor's prison.
  • 00:08:54.582 --> 00:08:58.886
  • And do you know whatthe scripture says?
  • 00:08:58.886 --> 00:09:00.855
  • He says that he was tormented.
  • 00:09:00.855 --> 00:09:04.592
  • Now here's the big deal.
  • 00:09:04.592 --> 00:09:07.328
  • When we don't forgive,we are tormented.
  • 00:09:07.328 --> 00:09:12.300
  • I heard somebody say once,that when we don't forgive,
  • 00:09:13.768 --> 00:09:17.839
  • we're drinking poison ourselves.
  • 00:09:17.839 --> 00:09:20.875
  • These toxic thoughts,toxic thoughts,
  • 00:09:20.875 --> 00:09:25.013
  • we're drinking this toxicthinking and it's like
  • 00:09:25.013 --> 00:09:28.449
  • drinking poison and hopingthe person we're mad at dies.
  • 00:09:28.449 --> 00:09:33.354
  • All I can tell you isthat Jesus was teaching us
  • 00:09:34.756 --> 00:09:37.358
  • how to have a happy life.
  • 00:09:37.358 --> 00:09:40.795
  • And that is to release, tolet go and let that person
  • 00:09:40.795 --> 00:09:45.800
  • fall away from our life, sothat we could be set free.
  • 00:09:47.235 --> 00:09:52.006
  • Forgive means to set free.
  • 00:09:52.874 --> 00:09:55.977
  • And that means what?
  • 00:09:55.977 --> 00:09:57.578
  • 70 times seven.
  • 00:09:57.578 --> 00:09:59.414
  • It's hard to forgivepeople 70 times seven,
  • 00:09:59.414 --> 00:10:03.384
  • but it's really inour best interest.
  • 00:10:03.384 --> 00:10:05.920
  • That's what Jesus was teaching.
  • 00:10:05.920 --> 00:10:07.689
  • - You know, what I loveabout that story is,
  • 00:10:08.823 --> 00:10:11.859
  • I don't know about you,
  • 00:10:11.859 --> 00:10:13.361
  • but forgiveness it can befor hurting my feelings here,
  • 00:10:13.361 --> 00:10:17.865
  • or it can be formurdering a child.
  • 00:10:20.535 --> 00:10:25.173
  • I mean, there's allkinds, there's a big array
  • 00:10:25.173 --> 00:10:28.142
  • of forgiveness that we haveto learn how to forgive.
  • 00:10:28.142 --> 00:10:32.547
  • And I love thatstory because to me,
  • 00:10:32.547 --> 00:10:35.983
  • it shows God's grace towards us.
  • 00:10:35.983 --> 00:10:39.287
  • Because he said, and Idon't know about you,
  • 00:10:39.287 --> 00:10:41.989
  • but I can sit andthink of something
  • 00:10:41.989 --> 00:10:44.926
  • that has hurt me to the core,and I can think about it
  • 00:10:44.926 --> 00:10:48.963
  • about 490 times aday and in my heart.
  • 00:10:48.963 --> 00:10:53.968
  • So since God looks on our heart,
  • 00:10:55.369 --> 00:10:58.039
  • He sees what's goingon in our heart.
  • 00:10:58.039 --> 00:10:59.607
  • He knows our thoughts, soif we get that in our heart,
  • 00:10:59.607 --> 00:11:03.144
  • that's like when He said,"If you look on a woman,
  • 00:11:03.144 --> 00:11:06.848
  • and lust after her, you'vealready committed adultery."
  • 00:11:06.848 --> 00:11:08.950
  • So he sees our heart and that'sjust completely open to Him.
  • 00:11:08.950 --> 00:11:12.820
  • So sometimes I canmull around a hurt
  • 00:11:12.820 --> 00:11:16.324
  • or something thatsomeone has done for me,
  • 00:11:16.324 --> 00:11:18.826
  • but God's grace and Jesus,His grace towards us,
  • 00:11:18.826 --> 00:11:22.997
  • said, "Even if you haveto forgive in your heart,
  • 00:11:22.997 --> 00:11:26.734
  • forgive inside, becausethat's what He sees
  • 00:11:26.734 --> 00:11:29.737
  • 490 times a day."
  • 00:11:29.737 --> 00:11:31.973
  • You go ahead and do that.
  • 00:11:31.973 --> 00:11:33.741
  • Because that forgiveness,once you start forgiving
  • 00:11:33.741 --> 00:11:38.246
  • and through the week, we'lltalk about the process
  • 00:11:38.246 --> 00:11:41.516
  • of forgiving andit is a process,
  • 00:11:41.516 --> 00:11:44.018
  • you can't justforgive and forget.
  • 00:11:44.018 --> 00:11:46.854
  • And so that's God'sgrace to us, I believe,
  • 00:11:46.854 --> 00:11:51.559
  • knowing that sometimes it'sgonna take 490 times a day
  • 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:55.630
  • in my heart to forgive someone,
  • 00:11:55.630 --> 00:11:57.899
  • 'cause when that comesback up through the day
  • 00:11:57.899 --> 00:11:59.901
  • you wanna mull it over,
  • 00:11:59.901 --> 00:12:01.402
  • it's like that person doingit all over to you again,
  • 00:12:01.402 --> 00:12:03.938
  • you just go, "God, Iask that you forgive me.
  • 00:12:03.938 --> 00:12:06.874
  • I forgive, I forgive."
  • 00:12:06.874 --> 00:12:09.076
  • And that's just been thatstory of grace for me, Sheila,
  • 00:12:09.076 --> 00:12:12.647
  • that God allows us tohave all those moments
  • 00:12:12.647 --> 00:12:17.418
  • to forgive somebodyin our lives.
  • 00:12:17.418 --> 00:12:19.153
  • - The thing that I thinkis hilarious almost
  • 00:12:21.155 --> 00:12:23.791
  • about that story, Laurie,is that Peter thought
  • 00:12:23.791 --> 00:12:25.726
  • he was really goingout on a limb,
  • 00:12:25.726 --> 00:12:27.895
  • when he said, "Lord, howoften should I forgive?
  • 00:12:27.895 --> 00:12:30.264
  • Should I forgive seven times?"
  • 00:12:30.264 --> 00:12:32.200
  • Because the rabbistaught in those days,
  • 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:34.669
  • that you only have toforgive three times.
  • 00:12:34.669 --> 00:12:36.938
  • If somebody hurts you, youforgive them the first,
  • 00:12:36.938 --> 00:12:38.739
  • second and third time.
  • 00:12:38.739 --> 00:12:40.308
  • So the fourth time youdon't forgive them,
  • 00:12:40.308 --> 00:12:42.410
  • so Peter thought hewas really, you know,
  • 00:12:42.410 --> 00:12:45.046
  • he was really goingout on a limb.
  • 00:12:45.046 --> 00:12:46.948
  • Should I forgive seven times?
  • 00:12:46.948 --> 00:12:48.182
  • And when Jesus said,"No, 70 times seven."
  • 00:12:48.182 --> 00:12:51.919
  • It's almost like, there's nolimit to the number of times,
  • 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:56.591
  • 1st Corinthians 13, "Lovekeeps no record of wrongs."
  • 00:12:58.025 --> 00:13:01.596
  • And I also thinkit's interesting
  • 00:13:01.596 --> 00:13:03.331
  • that Peter addressedit that way like,
  • 00:13:03.331 --> 00:13:05.233
  • how often should I forgive
  • 00:13:07.468 --> 00:13:08.803
  • rather than how oftenshould I be forgiven?
  • 00:13:08.803 --> 00:13:11.505
  • I think one of thethings about forgiveness,
  • 00:13:11.505 --> 00:13:14.775
  • is there's a humilityinvolved in it.
  • 00:13:14.775 --> 00:13:18.946
  • When you realize that you needforgiveness, it's kind of,
  • 00:13:18.946 --> 00:13:22.817
  • 'cause we all have levelsof pride in our lives,
  • 00:13:22.817 --> 00:13:25.453
  • I know I do.
  • 00:13:25.453 --> 00:13:26.921
  • And there's somethingabout genuine forgiveness,
  • 00:13:26.921 --> 00:13:30.791
  • where you have tohumble yourself
  • 00:13:30.791 --> 00:13:33.261
  • and realize that if youlive for a million years,
  • 00:13:33.261 --> 00:13:36.797
  • you will never comeclose to forgiving
  • 00:13:36.797 --> 00:13:38.833
  • what God has forgiveneach one of us.
  • 00:13:38.833 --> 00:13:41.135
  • - That is so profound
  • 00:13:42.003 --> 00:13:45.039
  • and I like how you guyshave brought that out
  • 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.675
  • in this conversation.
  • 00:13:47.675 --> 00:13:49.243
  • I had a counselortell me one time,
  • 00:13:49.243 --> 00:13:52.213
  • "If you won the lottery,would you be offended
  • 00:13:52.213 --> 00:13:55.216
  • if somebody stole fivedollars from you?"
  • 00:13:55.216 --> 00:13:58.286
  • And I thought, "Probably not."
  • 00:13:58.286 --> 00:14:00.554
  • I mean, I'm principle,I would be like,
  • 00:14:00.554 --> 00:14:02.290
  • "Hey, don't stealmy five dollars."
  • 00:14:02.290 --> 00:14:05.192
  • But in reality, ifI've got the jackpot,
  • 00:14:05.192 --> 00:14:09.497
  • which I don't play thenumbers, just to clear that up,
  • 00:14:09.497 --> 00:14:12.366
  • but that's telling my age,
  • 00:14:12.366 --> 00:14:14.969
  • talking aboutplaying the numbers.
  • 00:14:14.969 --> 00:14:16.470
  • But what I will say is, ifI had a $67 million jackpot,
  • 00:14:16.470 --> 00:14:21.442
  • I would not careabout five dollars.
  • 00:14:23.311 --> 00:14:26.013
  • And this counselordescribed it to me as,
  • 00:14:26.013 --> 00:14:29.216
  • what others could possiblydo to you on this earth
  • 00:14:29.216 --> 00:14:33.721
  • compared to the love of God andall He has prepared for you,
  • 00:14:33.721 --> 00:14:38.559
  • it's like five dollarsto the jackpot.
  • 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:41.796
  • And it's not only justthat I've been forgiven,
  • 00:14:41.796 --> 00:14:45.633
  • the amount of that differencebetween five dollars
  • 00:14:45.633 --> 00:14:48.569
  • and the jackpot, but in thatforgiveness, I have received
  • 00:14:48.569 --> 00:14:53.140
  • so much from the Lordthat I am not missing
  • 00:14:53.140 --> 00:14:57.044
  • what has been taken comparedto what has been given.
  • 00:15:00.081 --> 00:15:03.584
  • And not to minimizethings that happen,
  • 00:15:03.584 --> 00:15:05.853
  • there are real betrayals,
  • 00:15:05.853 --> 00:15:07.655
  • there are real devastationsand heartbreaks.
  • 00:15:07.655 --> 00:15:11.158
  • The reality is not to minimizewhat we can experience,
  • 00:15:11.158 --> 00:15:15.062
  • is to describe the difference
  • 00:15:15.062 --> 00:15:18.132
  • between what wecan experience here
  • 00:15:18.132 --> 00:15:20.701
  • and the glory that'sbeen prepared for us.
  • 00:15:20.701 --> 00:15:23.204
  • And when we keep that in mind,
  • 00:15:23.204 --> 00:15:25.706
  • forgiveness is possible,it is manageable.
  • 00:15:25.706 --> 00:15:30.211
  • One thought, one moment ofit coming into your heart
  • 00:15:30.211 --> 00:15:34.115
  • at a time, rememberingthat this time,
  • 00:15:34.115 --> 00:15:37.551
  • I can do what ittakes to forgive.
  • 00:15:37.551 --> 00:15:39.820
  • And I think somebody described,oh, Diane (indistinct),
  • 00:15:39.820 --> 00:15:44.358
  • in Australia, describedforgiveness one time
  • 00:15:44.358 --> 00:15:46.761
  • as letting people off thehook so that you can say,
  • 00:15:46.761 --> 00:15:50.898
  • "I forgive you,you owe me nothing.
  • 00:15:50.898 --> 00:15:53.567
  • No matter what happens,
  • 00:15:54.869 --> 00:15:56.504
  • I don't even needyou to be embarrassed
  • 00:15:56.504 --> 00:15:59.106
  • based on what you did for me,
  • 00:15:59.106 --> 00:16:00.541
  • but I am completelyletting you off the hook."
  • 00:16:00.541 --> 00:16:04.545
  • Now there are things wherewe hold people accountable
  • 00:16:04.545 --> 00:16:07.148
  • to not do them again, but Iam not keeping you on the hook
  • 00:16:07.148 --> 00:16:11.552
  • of you owe me this, thispenance, this, that penance,
  • 00:16:11.552 --> 00:16:15.089
  • until I allow you toreceive forgiveness.
  • 00:16:15.089 --> 00:16:17.925
  • I am going to give that,so like Robin said,
  • 00:16:17.925 --> 00:16:21.262
  • "I can be free, it's for me."
  • 00:16:21.262 --> 00:16:24.198
  • - It's definitely forme, that's for sure.
  • 00:16:25.866 --> 00:16:29.437
  • And having to remindyourself that 490 times a day
  • 00:16:29.437 --> 00:16:34.375
  • is not single timesfor every person,
  • 00:16:35.543 --> 00:16:37.278
  • that's the times for one person.
  • 00:16:37.278 --> 00:16:39.580
  • So when you remember that,and it's just kind of like,
  • 00:16:41.015 --> 00:16:45.453
  • how do you know, like Iheard Janice mentioned that,
  • 00:16:45.453 --> 00:16:49.857
  • you forgive the person,but then you don't
  • 00:16:49.857 --> 00:16:52.593
  • really kind of letthem off the hook
  • 00:16:52.593 --> 00:16:54.161
  • so that they won't do it again.
  • 00:16:54.161 --> 00:16:56.263
  • But how do you fully know whenyou have forgiven someone?
  • 00:16:56.263 --> 00:17:00.234
  • Like you have the thought thatcomes back up in your head,
  • 00:17:00.234 --> 00:17:04.405
  • like even our subconsciousthoughts that keep coming to us,
  • 00:17:04.405 --> 00:17:09.410
  • like 490 times a day,
  • 00:17:10.144 --> 00:17:11.412
  • it might come morethan 490 times a day.
  • 00:17:11.412 --> 00:17:13.848
  • But how do you know, really know
  • 00:17:13.848 --> 00:17:16.584
  • when you've fullyforgiven someone?
  • 00:17:16.584 --> 00:17:18.652
  • Is there a weightthat is lifted off?
  • 00:17:18.652 --> 00:17:21.822
  • Like, should people expectto wake up one morning
  • 00:17:21.822 --> 00:17:26.160
  • and that hurt be gone?
  • 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.262
  • Like how long does it take?
  • 00:17:28.262 --> 00:17:29.864
  • I just, I want tokind of make sure
  • 00:17:29.864 --> 00:17:33.234
  • the viewers also get likethe natural steps to take,
  • 00:17:33.234 --> 00:17:36.437
  • because I believesometimes people
  • 00:17:36.437 --> 00:17:39.006
  • feel like once they'veforgiven someone
  • 00:17:39.006 --> 00:17:41.208
  • or they fully feel likethey've really forgiven them,
  • 00:17:41.208 --> 00:17:45.746
  • but then they see them, andnow all of this rises up
  • 00:17:45.746 --> 00:17:50.417
  • on the inside of themand it's kinda like,
  • 00:17:50.417 --> 00:17:52.520
  • "God, what's going on?
  • 00:17:52.520 --> 00:17:53.754
  • I forgave them."
  • 00:17:53.754 --> 00:17:55.556
  • You know, why doI feel these ways?
  • 00:17:55.556 --> 00:17:57.758
  • And it's like, howcan someone fully know
  • 00:17:57.758 --> 00:18:00.628
  • when they have forgiven someone?
  • 00:18:00.628 --> 00:18:02.630
  • And just because theyhave that feeling,
  • 00:18:02.630 --> 00:18:05.266
  • does that mean that theystill haven't forgiven them?
  • 00:18:05.266 --> 00:18:08.569
  • What do you think, Dr. Robin?
  • 00:18:09.503 --> 00:18:11.372
  • - Well, I think that wetalked about that parable
  • 00:18:13.174 --> 00:18:18.179
  • and Jesus was teachingus that it was action.
  • 00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:23.784
  • That story is all about action.
  • 00:18:23.784 --> 00:18:27.021
  • So forgiveness andeven the Greek word,
  • 00:18:27.021 --> 00:18:30.524
  • I actually, yeah, I broughtmy whiteboard today,
  • 00:18:30.524 --> 00:18:34.094
  • we even have theGreek word here.
  • 00:18:34.094 --> 00:18:37.631
  • I'm not a Greek scholar,but there it is to set free.
  • 00:18:37.631 --> 00:18:42.636
  • It's an action verb.
  • 00:18:43.938 --> 00:18:46.207
  • And I was thinkingabout that Britney,
  • 00:18:46.207 --> 00:18:48.475
  • while you're talking,because what does it mean?
  • 00:18:48.475 --> 00:18:52.580
  • It's a process, right?
  • 00:18:52.580 --> 00:18:55.316
  • Now the part that's hard,
  • 00:18:55.316 --> 00:18:57.685
  • is I think peopleget all mixed up,
  • 00:18:57.685 --> 00:18:59.587
  • we think that people deserve it.
  • 00:18:59.587 --> 00:19:02.456
  • Like it's not fair, right?
  • 00:19:02.456 --> 00:19:06.260
  • People think, "I'm not gonnagive them forgiveness."
  • 00:19:06.260 --> 00:19:11.232
  • But the fact is it'snot about being fair,
  • 00:19:13.334 --> 00:19:17.438
  • it's about whatwe're supposed to do,
  • 00:19:17.438 --> 00:19:20.441
  • not only becauseit's good for us,
  • 00:19:20.441 --> 00:19:24.078
  • but because Godasks us to do it.
  • 00:19:24.078 --> 00:19:26.981
  • The scripture I was meditatingabout was Hebrews 10,
  • 00:19:26.981 --> 00:19:30.618
  • let me read it for you, it says,
  • 00:19:30.618 --> 00:19:32.419
  • "This is the covenantthat I will make with them
  • 00:19:32.419 --> 00:19:35.155
  • after those daysdeclares the Lord.
  • 00:19:35.155 --> 00:19:37.958
  • I will put my lawson their hearts,
  • 00:19:37.958 --> 00:19:40.661
  • write them on theirminds," and then He adds,
  • 00:19:40.661 --> 00:19:43.430
  • "I will remember their sins
  • 00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:46.066
  • and their lawless deeds no more.
  • 00:19:46.066 --> 00:19:49.270
  • Revenge is mine, says the Lord."
  • 00:19:49.270 --> 00:19:52.239
  • We're not supposed to goand try to make things
  • 00:19:52.239 --> 00:19:55.109
  • get back what people did to us,we're supposed to let it go.
  • 00:19:55.109 --> 00:20:00.114
  • Because it's good for us,
  • 00:20:00.981 --> 00:20:02.483
  • but also because ofwhat God's done for us.
  • 00:20:02.483 --> 00:20:05.919
  • You know, I have all thesekids, I raised these boys
  • 00:20:05.919 --> 00:20:09.890
  • and I taught them a lot ofthings through illustration.
  • 00:20:09.890 --> 00:20:13.360
  • And here's my idea of whatforgiveness is for me.
  • 00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:17.665
  • And that is we carryaround people and memories
  • 00:20:17.665 --> 00:20:22.636
  • like a burden on our back.
  • 00:20:23.537 --> 00:20:25.506
  • It's like we tiedthings to our thinking
  • 00:20:25.506 --> 00:20:28.776
  • and we go to bed at nightand we'd rehearse it all,
  • 00:20:28.776 --> 00:20:33.681
  • and we've got this tied to us.
  • 00:20:34.548 --> 00:20:36.717
  • And we literally haveto say, "All right God,
  • 00:20:36.717 --> 00:20:41.255
  • I released people,I release myself,
  • 00:20:41.255 --> 00:20:46.260
  • I release all of my thinking.
  • 00:20:47.127 --> 00:20:50.030
  • God, I give it toyou and I say, yes."
  • 00:20:50.030 --> 00:20:54.935
  • And that I believe Britney isthe beginning of forgiveness,
  • 00:20:56.403 --> 00:21:00.708
  • but I think it's alifetime process.
  • 00:21:00.708 --> 00:21:04.044
  • What do you think, Laurie?
  • 00:21:04.044 --> 00:21:05.346
  • - Well, I do too and again,some things are harder
  • 00:21:06.714 --> 00:21:10.984
  • to get through andforgive than other things.
  • 00:21:10.984 --> 00:21:13.687
  • I was sitting with mymom and dad last night,
  • 00:21:13.687 --> 00:21:17.057
  • and I said, "What's themost important thing
  • 00:21:17.057 --> 00:21:20.928
  • that you've learnedabout forgiveness dad
  • 00:21:20.928 --> 00:21:23.097
  • and how do you know thatyou've actually forgiven?"
  • 00:21:27.267 --> 00:21:29.603
  • And he said that, "It's whenyou have given up your right
  • 00:21:29.603 --> 00:21:33.741
  • to get even."
  • 00:21:33.741 --> 00:21:34.775
  • So I think that's probablythe major thing for me,
  • 00:21:36.877 --> 00:21:41.348
  • is that there are thingsthat have happened
  • 00:21:41.348 --> 00:21:44.785
  • that I've thought,"You know what?
  • 00:21:44.785 --> 00:21:46.587
  • I don't care whether theyever get paid back or not,
  • 00:21:46.587 --> 00:21:49.590
  • I'm gonna released that, I'mgetting that off of my plate.
  • 00:21:49.590 --> 00:21:53.994
  • I forgive and they dealwith whatever they've done,
  • 00:21:53.994 --> 00:21:58.899
  • because there'sconsequences to everything,
  • 00:21:58.899 --> 00:22:00.901
  • God sees everything."
  • 00:22:00.901 --> 00:22:02.836
  • And it's not condoning, it'snot things have been done
  • 00:22:02.836 --> 00:22:07.808
  • that are really, really,really super horrible.
  • 00:22:08.976 --> 00:22:12.913
  • And there's alwaysconsequences to that
  • 00:22:12.913 --> 00:22:15.449
  • because God sees every deed
  • 00:22:15.449 --> 00:22:17.584
  • and if you don't thinkthat God sees it,
  • 00:22:17.584 --> 00:22:19.386
  • I'm here to tellyou that He does.
  • 00:22:19.386 --> 00:22:21.021
  • And He's the one thatwill take care of it.
  • 00:22:21.021 --> 00:22:23.290
  • He's the one that willtake care of that person,
  • 00:22:23.290 --> 00:22:26.627
  • those people, He sees it all,
  • 00:22:26.627 --> 00:22:29.196
  • and so He willhave the final say.
  • 00:22:29.196 --> 00:22:33.534
  • As for me, that's not my job,
  • 00:22:33.534 --> 00:22:36.403
  • so I'm going to releasemyself, drop those chains,
  • 00:22:36.403 --> 00:22:41.408
  • let it go and again,it is a process.
  • 00:22:42.543 --> 00:22:46.513
  • And a lot of times, ifsomeone's been abused,
  • 00:22:46.513 --> 00:22:49.550
  • you don't just, I'm sorry,you take care of the wounds,
  • 00:22:49.550 --> 00:22:53.387
  • I've heard a lot ofthat from Janice.
  • 00:22:53.387 --> 00:22:55.456
  • She's taught me so good, andyou tend to the wounds first
  • 00:22:55.456 --> 00:23:00.461
  • and then you proceed to heal.
  • 00:23:01.361 --> 00:23:02.996
  • It's like, if you have asex trafficking victim,
  • 00:23:02.996 --> 00:23:06.467
  • you don't, you know, getthem from them being bound
  • 00:23:06.467 --> 00:23:11.472
  • to then just saying,"Okay, we got to talk about
  • 00:23:12.806 --> 00:23:14.141
  • forgiving your accusers."
  • 00:23:15.075 --> 00:23:16.310
  • We've gotta healthat person first.
  • 00:23:16.310 --> 00:23:18.645
  • And, so Sheila, what do yousay about that darling girl?
  • 00:23:18.645 --> 00:23:23.650
  • - You know honestlyLaurie, to Britney's point,
  • 00:23:26.086 --> 00:23:28.889
  • you know where doyou even start?
  • 00:23:28.889 --> 00:23:30.991
  • In my experience, youstart where you are.
  • 00:23:30.991 --> 00:23:33.760
  • I remember with somebodythat had really, really
  • 00:23:33.760 --> 00:23:35.829
  • wounded me in the past andI knew I had to forgive
  • 00:23:35.829 --> 00:23:39.066
  • and I didn't want to,so my first prayer
  • 00:23:39.066 --> 00:23:41.068
  • sounded a bit like this,"Lord, I forgive them
  • 00:23:41.068 --> 00:23:43.937
  • but you know I don't mean it."
  • 00:23:43.937 --> 00:23:45.239
  • I mean, seriously, thatwas my first prayer.
  • 00:23:45.239 --> 00:23:47.541
  • But I absolutely, it waslike dragging my will
  • 00:23:47.541 --> 00:23:50.344
  • in line with the will of God
  • 00:23:50.344 --> 00:23:52.179
  • and lining my heart up.
  • 00:23:53.547 --> 00:23:54.781
  • And so, I woulddo that every day,
  • 00:23:54.781 --> 00:23:56.250
  • but I found as theweeks turned to months,
  • 00:23:56.250 --> 00:23:59.319
  • I began praying for that person
  • 00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:00.988
  • with tears rolling down my face,
  • 00:24:00.988 --> 00:24:02.756
  • and then it moved topraying for God's blessing
  • 00:24:02.756 --> 00:24:05.192
  • and favor on their life.
  • 00:24:05.192 --> 00:24:06.793
  • So I just wanna say to anyof you watching us right now,
  • 00:24:06.793 --> 00:24:09.730
  • we don't know whatyou have gone through,
  • 00:24:10.864 --> 00:24:12.766
  • we don't know the kind of wounds
  • 00:24:12.766 --> 00:24:14.701
  • that have left deepscars in your heart,
  • 00:24:14.701 --> 00:24:16.803
  • and your saying, "You'reasking me to forgive,
  • 00:24:16.803 --> 00:24:18.839
  • does that mean thatwhat they did was okay?"
  • 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:20.641
  • No, it does not mean thatwhat they did was okay,
  • 00:24:20.641 --> 00:24:23.810
  • is simply means thatforgiveness is God's gift to us
  • 00:24:23.810 --> 00:24:27.180
  • to live in a worldthat is not fair.
  • 00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:29.182
  • This world is not fair,but you can be free.
  • 00:24:29.182 --> 00:24:33.754
  • And I would love the privilegeof praying for you right now.
  • 00:24:33.754 --> 00:24:37.591
  • Ask the Holy Spirit tobring to you remembrance,
  • 00:24:37.591 --> 00:24:39.993
  • what that thing that wasdone, who that person is,
  • 00:24:39.993 --> 00:24:43.964
  • and you can'tforgive on your own,
  • 00:24:43.964 --> 00:24:46.099
  • that's why we have the HolySpirit, at work in our life
  • 00:24:46.099 --> 00:24:50.103
  • to help us to line up ourlife for the word of God.
  • 00:24:50.103 --> 00:24:53.507
  • So let me prayfor you right now.
  • 00:24:53.507 --> 00:24:55.142
  • Father, I justwanna pray right now
  • 00:24:56.243 --> 00:24:58.445
  • for all who arewatching this program
  • 00:24:58.445 --> 00:25:00.814
  • and who are struggling.
  • 00:25:00.814 --> 00:25:02.416
  • It feels as if they have aboulder tied around their neck,
  • 00:25:02.416 --> 00:25:05.786
  • as if they'reweighed down by this.
  • 00:25:05.786 --> 00:25:08.855
  • Lord, when we take afresh look at the cross
  • 00:25:08.855 --> 00:25:11.792
  • and what you endured sothat we could be forgiven,
  • 00:25:11.792 --> 00:25:14.928
  • so that we could befree, Father I pray,
  • 00:25:14.928 --> 00:25:18.265
  • that by the powerof your Holy Spirit,
  • 00:25:18.265 --> 00:25:20.867
  • you would help them to bringthis wound, this burden,
  • 00:25:20.867 --> 00:25:24.371
  • this hurt and lay it atthe foot of the cross.
  • 00:25:24.371 --> 00:25:28.508
  • Lay it right now, layit 10 minutes from now,
  • 00:25:28.508 --> 00:25:31.411
  • lay it an hour from now,
  • 00:25:31.411 --> 00:25:32.846
  • every time for aslong as they need to,
  • 00:25:32.846 --> 00:25:35.515
  • so that they canrise up and be free.
  • 00:25:35.515 --> 00:25:39.386
  • Lord, I thank you,
  • 00:25:39.386 --> 00:25:41.355
  • that you have promisedthat your grace is enough.
  • 00:25:41.355 --> 00:25:45.258
  • So I ask right now thatyour grace would be enough
  • 00:25:45.258 --> 00:25:48.228
  • to forgive the unforgivable,
  • 00:25:48.228 --> 00:25:50.330
  • because you've forgiventhe unforgivable in us.
  • 00:25:50.330 --> 00:25:52.966
  • In Jesus, Jesus name, amen.
  • 00:25:52.966 --> 00:25:56.637
  • - Thank you Jesus, amen.
  • 00:25:56.637 --> 00:25:59.139
  • I love that, we'regonna be learning
  • 00:26:00.340 --> 00:26:01.441
  • lots of good stuff this week.
  • 00:26:01.441 --> 00:26:03.243
  • You know, our BetterTogether community
  • 00:26:03.243 --> 00:26:04.878
  • is always here for you.
  • 00:26:04.878 --> 00:26:06.413
  • You can connect withus on social media
  • 00:26:06.413 --> 00:26:08.181
  • and let us know howwe can pray for you.
  • 00:26:08.181 --> 00:26:10.150
  • Thank you for joining us today.
  • 00:26:10.150 --> 00:26:12.052
  • You know, it is okayto say, "I am sorry."
  • 00:26:12.052 --> 00:26:15.222
  • We all make mistakes,
  • 00:26:15.222 --> 00:26:16.623
  • but tomorrow we'regonna be talking about
  • 00:26:16.623 --> 00:26:18.358
  • asking for forgiveness,even when it's hard to admit
  • 00:26:18.358 --> 00:26:21.361
  • that maybe we were wrong.
  • 00:26:21.361 --> 00:26:22.529
  • We'll see you then.
  • 00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:23.530
  • (upbeat music)
  • 00:26:24.364 --> 00:26:26.967