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Jay Sekulow - Court Drops Trump Fraud Penalty

September 10, 2025 | 29:45

Jay Sekulow speaks about the protection of religious freedoms in America.

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Sekulow | Jay Sekulow - Court Drops Trump Fraud Penalty | September 10, 2025

(timer beeping)
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(upbeat music)
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- welcome to sekulow, will haynes in studio.
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My dad, jay sekulow, is gonna join us.
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We are starting to go through it ourselves,
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With the aclj front and center right involved in this.
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And of course, the breaking news, the appeals court
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Has thrown out the massive,
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The massive nearly half a billion dollar penalty
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Against president trump.
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And this was over, will, what they were calling
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The over-evaluation of properties and all those things.
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You've heard about us talk about this
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Over and over and over again.
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But now, there at least is some justice.
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Now, it doesn't mean it's over yet,
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But at least this step is concluded and the aclj,
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As i said, front and center.
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- that's right, so this is the case
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That was before judge engeron, which remember,
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The famous photo op that people made an office meme out of
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Because it was ridiculous.
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He allowed cameras in his courtroom to come take photos.
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And then he handed down, there was no jury,
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This was a bench trial, where he handed down
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A $400 million judgment, but with penalties and interest,
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Puts it over half a billion dollar penalty
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Against president trump.
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It also banned him and his family
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From running the business of the trump organization.
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And this was letitia james' civil fraud case.
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This was the case where she said that mar-a-lago
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And other assets were overvalued and able to get loans,
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And then that enriched the trump organization.
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The supreme court, which is what the lowest court
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In new york is, handed down this huge penalty,
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Unprecedented penalty against president trump.
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Well, today, in an appeal at the new york supreme court
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Appellate division, first judicial department,
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A five-judge panel handed down an opinion
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Which completely wipes out
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That half a billion dollar penalty.
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They said it violated the eighth amendment
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Of the united states constitution.
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And right there, you see the opinion on the front page.
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Who is listed as a party to it?
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Because we filed in this case, making an argument
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That it's the american center for law and justice.
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Remember, some of these things
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You may have even forgotten were still going on.
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These appeals of the lawfare perpetrated
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Against president trump when he was running for office.
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- [will] yeah, they've just been in the background.
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- we're still fighting
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And we're still getting victories even today.
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(light music)
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(light music)
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(light music)
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- welcome back to sekulow.
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My dad, jay sekulow, is joining us right now.
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Will, let's give a very brief rundown of what just happened
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As this new york court has decided to wipe out
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Nearly a half a billion dollars in penalties
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Against president trump, but also,
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The aclj is directly involved.
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Dad, i wanna get your thoughts after this.
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We'll set this up, and then i wanna get your thoughts,
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And again, how the aclj was involved,
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More than we ever even could imagine, i feel like,
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In the decision-making process.
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- that's right, this was this case that letitia james
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Had brought against former president trump at the time,
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Running for president at the time as well,
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Where she brought this civil fraud statute
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Against the president saying overvalued real estate
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And things of that nature to get better,
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More favorable terms with banks on loans,
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And therefore, enriching himself
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That way and the organization.
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Today, a five-judge panel with the new york
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Appellate division, the supreme court appellate division,
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Has thrown out what was $400 million fine
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And penalty against him,
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Which with interest was over half a billion dollars.
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And your aclj was fighting front and center on this,
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Even on the front of the opinion, as well as quoted
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And cited by one of the justices in the opinion as well.
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So we wanna go to your dad, jay sekulow.
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Now, what's your take on this?
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How big a deal is this that we're seeing it today?
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- [jay] well, i think first of all, it's very significant
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Because it eliminated what was clearly an excessive fine.
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It violated the eighth amendment.
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What you would and will have been talking about
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In the first segment is correct.
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The aclj played a pivotal role here.
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We wrote a brief that argued
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That allowing that judgment to stand,
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That letitia james brought this suit,
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That allowing it to stand would, in fact,
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Violate the constitution, would also inhibit free speech
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And political discourse.
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And what is, i think, very significant here
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Is judge friedman, in his opinion, writes that it quotes,
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Not just references are brief but quotes are brief.
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We said, "the statute provides a license
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For the attorney general to pursue anyone
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Based on an alleged inaccuracy
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And regardless of whether anyone has been harmed,
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Just as she did here."
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And then it said, "by removing the inherent
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Protections of traditional fraud law,
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Section 63 enables political opponents
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To be prosecuted under a regime of strict liability,
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Regardless of any actual culpability or mental state."
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The mental state is intent to commit a civil fraud.
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So judge friedman cites our brief.
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Indicates, and i wanna underscore the importance of this.
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When we talk about an amicus brief, some people say,
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"well, what is that exactly?"
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Amicus stands for friend of the court.
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We had standing to file a brief in the case
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As a friend of the court, and our briefs,
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As amicus briefs have been cited
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Not only by appellate courts
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And federal appellate courts and state appellate courts,
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But we've been cited by the u.s. supreme court as an amicus.
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So this is a huge win, but the deterrent effect
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Of political activity and investment in new york city,
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A lot of businesses left new york because of their concerns
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About what happened to president trump.
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And these are not necessarily people
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That had any political ax to grind.
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It was just they were concerned
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About doing business in a state
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Where they could do something like this.
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Now, there's gonna be an appeal here to the next level.
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This was the appellate division,
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Which is the intermediate appellate court.
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It will now go to the court of appeals.
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And i will assure everyone that's listening right now
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That the american center for law and justice
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Is gonna be front and center.
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We spent a lot of time on this brief to work it out.
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And the reality is this is a big win,
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But we need the next step here, which is two of the justices
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Would have voted to dismiss the entire matter.
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And i think at the appeals court at the next level,
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We're gonna win that aspect too.
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But those fines are gone.
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- well, and that's one thing i wanted to ask you about
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As well, knowing that the office of letitia james
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Will still try to make sure that this judgment against him,
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Regardless of the fines being wiped out, stands.
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This was one of her key achievements
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As attorney general of the state of new york.
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But as we look at that next level, knowing already
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That there are some of these justices
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In the appellate division that think that the entire
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Charge should have been dismissed,
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And knowing that our rationale was used by one of those
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Justices on this appellate division,
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Does that give, one, more gumption behind our fight
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As we take this forward that it could be total vindication
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By even having this completely wiped from the books?
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- i think we have a real chance at that.
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I mean, i'm optimistic.
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I mean, first of all, getting those civil penalties,
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Which were draconian to say the least,
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Out of the way is a huge win.
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The next phase will be this injunction
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That they put in place, which with some restrictions
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On how the trump organization does business.
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We've been involved in these cases from the outset,
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But i wanna underscore something here,
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Logan, that you said right before the break,
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And that is, you look at the work of the american center
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For law and justice, we're talking about
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35 years of victory.
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Here's one where we're defending
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The constitution of the united states
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And the president of the united states.
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And we are successful.
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And the reality is, what's at stake
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Is the ability of american citizens to do business,
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To engage in free speech without this kind of retaliation,
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And the fact that our brief got cited is huge.
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- yeah, absolutely.
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I think that, i mean, i guess you're expecting it
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In the sense of you put a lot of hard work in it,
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But when you see it sort of up front and center,
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When you see not only aclj listed
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But direct quotes and cites happening,
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You know that we are putting together
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A team that can really impact the world.
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And i think that's always something that we wanna pitch
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And always something i talk about here,
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Which is i wanna bring in the best of the best.
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We wanna make sure we have the best lawyers.
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We wanna show you the best media broadcasting team,
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Because we can't do it without them.
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And if you don't, you don't have this level of success.
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And i think that's what proves.
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When you have 35 years of victory,
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It's not just a catchphrase.
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It is something that is true and honest.
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Sure, are there wins and losses along the way?
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Of course there are.
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But the mass majority of what we have done
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Has been securing victories for everyone
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From what you consider, i guess, to be a child
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In an elementary school all the way up
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To the president of the united states.
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- [jay] that's exactly correct.
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All of those cases are equally important to our teams.
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And i wanna thank our aclj members,
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Especially our aclj champions but also our aclj members
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For supporting us to allowing us to do this kind of work.
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I remember working on this brief.
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It's been a while.
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I mean, this case took a long time to get decided.
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And the reality is, we had the same team on this brief
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That was on our supreme court team.
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So it was those same lawyers,
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Even though this was at an intermediate appellate court.
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But the idea that we have not only obtained a victory,
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But then get a citation in the opinion itself
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That talks about the negative impact,
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The deterrent effect on political activity and investment
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By this case and then cites our brief,
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I mean, logan, this is huge.
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I mean, i hope that everyone that's listening to broadcast
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Or watching understands is that the reality is,
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Our brief gets cited, so then ask yourself this question.
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What if that brief wasn't filed?
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So that's what you got to realize.
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I mean, the courts can do so much,
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But that's why these briefs are so important.
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There are organizations that just do amicus brief.
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Now we do a lot more than that,
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But i mean, because it's that important.
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- i think that's good to show people,
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Because i think you'll hear that a lot of times,
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People do think of it maybe as a throwaway item,
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They think of, "oh, amicus brief,
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They're not really directly involved.
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They're just kind of getting involved in a way
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That they can see fit
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And they can fundraise on and all that."
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But here's the proof.
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Here's the proof, maybe to the biggest extent
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That that is not the case.
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- [jay] 100%.
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You're cited by a court
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On a case that has huge ramifications for the constitution,
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The eighth amendment, the first amendment,
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And the ability of people to do business.
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And then of course the presidency itself.
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- let's go to warren, who's calling,
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Who again is an aclj champion,
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Someone that gives on a monthly recurring basis.
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Someone that says, "i'm staying with the aclj.
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I wanna set it and forget it, if you will."
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Let's go to warren.
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Warren, you're on the air.
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- [warren] i just think it's awesome with letitia jane
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And all that she did in this judgment that god is so true.
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He said, he won't be mocked, and whatsoever a person sows,
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That will they reap.
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And don't judge 'cause the same thing
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You're judging, you're guilty of.
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And to see what they're finding out
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That she did in this law fair, i just think it's fantastic.
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And the judgment and your guys' help
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In the whole thing with the amicus brief is awesome.
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- thank you so much, warren.
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And look, i feel like names like letitia james
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And some of those are ones that i kind of was hoping
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We never would have to say again,
00:12:01.779 --> 00:12:03.047
But sometimes we get to say them on a good day.
00:12:03.047 --> 00:12:04.682
- in a good way, right?
00:12:04.682 --> 00:12:05.850
Yeah, warren. - not for them.
00:12:05.850 --> 00:12:07.284
- well, obviously, yeah.
00:12:07.284 --> 00:12:08.719
This was kind of the pinnacle of her career
00:12:08.719 --> 00:12:13.023
As the attorney general of new york.
00:12:13.023 --> 00:12:15.025
This is what she ran on and she was able to pull off.
00:12:15.025 --> 00:12:18.963
And now that huge judgment,
00:12:18.963 --> 00:12:21.999
That unprecedented judgment, is wiped out.
00:12:21.999 --> 00:12:24.702
Something that she was so proud of is gone.
00:12:24.702 --> 00:12:28.372
And that's another issue that when you think about not only
00:12:28.372 --> 00:12:32.443
Was the judgment unprecedented,
00:12:32.443 --> 00:12:35.613
But the way that this law was used,
00:12:35.613 --> 00:12:37.681
This flexibility that allowed the attorney general
00:12:37.681 --> 00:12:40.684
To go after businesses that may be fraudulently
00:12:40.684 --> 00:12:44.788
Engaged in activities with consumers and everything,
00:12:44.788 --> 00:12:48.559
It's a consumer protection angle.
00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:50.427
So the attorney general trying to keep the public trust.
00:12:50.427 --> 00:12:53.330
But what everyone argued from the beginning was that,
00:12:53.330 --> 00:12:56.133
And even the banks that testified, there was no fraud here.
00:12:56.133 --> 00:13:00.504
We aren't victims.
00:13:00.938 --> 00:13:02.206
The loans were repaid.
00:13:02.206 --> 00:13:03.607
We continued to do business with this organization,
00:13:03.607 --> 00:13:07.077
But yet they still had to go there.
00:13:07.077 --> 00:13:09.079
It looked like a show trial, the way cameras were brought in
00:13:09.079 --> 00:13:12.816
At the very beginning of it
00:13:12.816 --> 00:13:14.451
In order to showcase what was going on.
00:13:14.451 --> 00:13:17.655
The judge there loved his 15 minutes of fame,
00:13:17.655 --> 00:13:20.925
Because most people, nationally and around the world,
00:13:20.925 --> 00:13:23.527
Aren't talking about a lower court judge
00:13:23.527 --> 00:13:26.764
In the state of new york.
00:13:26.764 --> 00:13:28.732
But we've seen that all that has been undone,
00:13:28.732 --> 00:13:30.901
And the law fair failed
00:13:30.901 --> 00:13:32.436
Because president trump was reelected.
00:13:32.436 --> 00:13:34.638
And it also failed because you're seeing
00:13:34.638 --> 00:13:36.740
That weaponizing the law doesn't end well.
00:13:36.740 --> 00:13:40.344
And that's the other key takeaway here.
00:13:40.344 --> 00:13:42.880
These aren't just important for president trump.
00:13:42.880 --> 00:13:46.016
These are important for every american,
00:13:46.016 --> 00:13:47.885
That our system of laws is protected and upheld,
00:13:47.885 --> 00:13:50.688
And that our constitution remains strong,
00:13:50.688 --> 00:13:53.791
And that state attorneys general don't get to run around
00:13:53.791 --> 00:13:57.561
And violate people's constitutional rights
00:13:57.561 --> 00:14:00.230
Just because they don't like them politically.
00:14:00.230 --> 00:14:03.233
(light music)
00:14:03.233 --> 00:14:08.991
(light music)
00:14:09.165 --> 00:14:11.167
- to sekulow, i do wanna hear from you,
00:14:11.167 --> 00:14:12.902
And there are a lot of you watching right now,
00:14:12.902 --> 00:14:14.437
So we're actually gonna stick on this topic.
00:14:14.437 --> 00:14:16.039
I know a lot of you are tuning in to hear the breaking news,
00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:17.673
But i want your feedback on this.
00:14:17.673 --> 00:14:19.542
What do you think, do you think the law got it right?
00:14:19.542 --> 00:14:21.044
Do you think they got it wrong?
00:14:21.044 --> 00:14:22.512
You can be on either side of this, i'm okay with it.
00:14:22.512 --> 00:14:23.913
Let's just discuss it, let's talk it out.
00:14:23.913 --> 00:14:25.648
But will, i guess maybe we need to reset a little bit.
00:14:25.648 --> 00:14:27.617
- that's right.
00:14:27.617 --> 00:14:28.918
And i think we should reset it by starting
00:14:28.918 --> 00:14:30.453
Where this entire thing started.
00:14:30.453 --> 00:14:33.923
And that was with letitia james,
00:14:33.923 --> 00:14:35.725
The attorney general of new york
00:14:35.725 --> 00:14:37.894
Brought a civil fraud case against president trump
00:14:37.894 --> 00:14:41.998
And his trump organization, family members, et cetera.
00:14:41.998 --> 00:14:46.102
And here's what she tweeted or posted on x
00:14:46.102 --> 00:14:50.373
When they- - i wasn't gonna correct it.
00:14:50.373 --> 00:14:51.941
- when they got the judgment against president trump
00:14:51.941 --> 00:14:56.579
On that bench trial, when the judge said,
00:14:56.579 --> 00:15:00.583
"you're liable for this."
00:15:00.583 --> 00:15:02.051
And we have that graphic, throw it up for everyone.
00:15:02.051 --> 00:15:04.720
Letitia james just tweeted the number of judges.
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:09.959
464,576,230.62.
00:15:10.326 --> 00:15:17.500
- my favorite "rent" song. - no. (laughs)
00:15:18.367 --> 00:15:20.536
No other context but that.
00:15:20.536 --> 00:15:23.239
That was the judgment put against them.
00:15:23.239 --> 00:15:26.909
And obviously, everyone said this is absurd.
00:15:26.909 --> 00:15:29.312
This is a historically high number.
00:15:29.312 --> 00:15:32.181
And then, with interest, it was over half a billion dollars.
00:15:32.181 --> 00:15:36.018
Well, this went to appeal.
00:15:36.018 --> 00:15:38.955
And what we see today, because we kept fighting,
00:15:38.955 --> 00:15:41.357
In that span since february 23rd, 2024 to today,
00:15:41.357 --> 00:15:47.196
A lot of people forgot about it.
00:15:47.830 --> 00:15:49.465
There was an election.
00:15:49.465 --> 00:15:50.433
President trump won.
00:15:50.433 --> 00:15:51.968
- i do think people think almost those things get wiped out.
00:15:51.968 --> 00:15:54.036
- and many of the criminal cases did go away.
00:15:54.036 --> 00:15:56.839
However, this did not.
00:15:56.839 --> 00:15:58.841
This was already a conviction in this civil case.
00:15:58.841 --> 00:16:02.879
And we now see that this five-judge panel
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.682
At the appellate division in new york,
00:16:06.682 --> 00:16:08.618
This is state court, remember,
00:16:08.618 --> 00:16:10.386
Has overturned and gotten rid of that absurd
00:16:10.386 --> 00:16:14.957
Judgment against the president.
00:16:14.957 --> 00:16:16.492
The aclj filed in this case.
00:16:16.492 --> 00:16:18.561
We were cited by one of the justices
00:16:18.561 --> 00:16:20.997
Who wanted the entire thing thrown out.
00:16:20.997 --> 00:16:23.432
He agreed with get rid of that,
00:16:23.432 --> 00:16:24.834
But this entire case should be gone.
00:16:24.834 --> 00:16:26.903
And i'm gonna read one portion of this justice,
00:16:26.903 --> 00:16:30.139
In his concurring in part and dissenting in part,
00:16:30.139 --> 00:16:34.210
Really taking up, he later quotes us directly
00:16:34.210 --> 00:16:37.547
From our brief, but really taking up the argument
00:16:37.547 --> 00:16:40.216
That this was political lawfare against the president,
00:16:40.216 --> 00:16:43.019
Something we had been saying the whole time.
00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:44.954
And he says, "this action essentially turns
00:16:44.954 --> 00:16:47.924
Section 6312 on its head.
00:16:47.924 --> 00:16:50.860
The leniency with which the courts
00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:52.461
Have construed the requirement for pleading
00:16:52.461 --> 00:16:54.797
And proving fraud under section 63,
00:16:54.797 --> 00:16:58.067
A leniency that has extended for the purpose
00:16:58.067 --> 00:17:00.703
Of facilitating the use under provision
00:17:00.703 --> 00:17:02.772
To prevent the exploitation of unsophisticated customers,
00:17:02.772 --> 00:17:06.309
Investors, and small businesses is here being used
00:17:06.309 --> 00:17:09.779
By attorney general letitia james to apply section 63
00:17:09.779 --> 00:17:13.783
To a scenario to which the provision
00:17:13.783 --> 00:17:15.985
Has never before been applied or even thought to apply."
00:17:15.985 --> 00:17:19.956
So he's saying the attorney general being able
00:17:19.956 --> 00:17:23.059
To bring these actions in this case
00:17:23.059 --> 00:17:25.528
Is meant for a specific purpose.
00:17:25.528 --> 00:17:28.231
It's meant to be to stop people
00:17:28.231 --> 00:17:30.866
From being exploited by businesses, banks, whatever,
00:17:30.866 --> 00:17:35.771
On unsophisticated customers,
00:17:35.771 --> 00:17:37.907
Consumers, investors, et cetera.
00:17:37.907 --> 00:17:40.443
They don't have the resources.
00:17:40.443 --> 00:17:42.078
They're not savvy enough to understand
00:17:42.078 --> 00:17:44.480
The complexities of a fraud that's being brought upon them.
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:47.717
Then he goes further and says,
00:17:47.717 --> 00:17:49.018
"the attorney general in this case has utilized
00:17:49.018 --> 00:17:51.020
The flexibility afforded to her under this section
00:17:51.020 --> 00:17:54.123
To unwind complex financial transactions
00:17:54.123 --> 00:17:56.759
That were negotiated face-to-face
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:59.395
And at arm's length between a privately-held
00:17:59.395 --> 00:18:02.098
Real estate organization and ultra-sophisticated banks,
00:18:02.098 --> 00:18:07.436
Insurance companies, government entities,
00:18:08.304 --> 00:18:09.905
Which were well advised by equally sophisticated lawyers,
00:18:09.905 --> 00:18:13.643
Accountants, and other business professionals."
00:18:13.643 --> 00:18:15.845
Essentially saying- - we never issued a complaint.
00:18:15.845 --> 00:18:18.014
Never had a problem with any of this.
00:18:18.014 --> 00:18:19.982
This was all made up.
00:18:19.982 --> 00:18:21.417
They've said that the president and his organizations
00:18:21.417 --> 00:18:23.853
Never missed a payment, never had any issues
00:18:23.853 --> 00:18:27.323
With the financial side of this.
00:18:27.323 --> 00:18:29.258
If there was a crime that you would say is,
00:18:30.159 --> 00:18:33.329
What do they call that?
00:18:33.329 --> 00:18:34.597
Like a meaningless crime, a harmless crime.
00:18:34.597 --> 00:18:36.532
- right, victimless crime. - victimless crime.
00:18:36.532 --> 00:18:38.634
This would be it, which is a bank says,
00:18:38.634 --> 00:18:41.003
"yes, here's a loan."
00:18:41.003 --> 00:18:42.638
And they repay that loan successfully.
00:18:43.472 --> 00:18:45.608
- right, they keep saying that the trump organization
00:18:45.608 --> 00:18:48.678
Enriched themselves by this fraud.
00:18:48.678 --> 00:18:50.780
You know who else made a lot of money off that?
00:18:50.780 --> 00:18:52.815
The banks that did business with him.
00:18:52.815 --> 00:18:55.217
There wasn't a true victim.
00:18:55.217 --> 00:18:57.219
They were trying to restore the public trust,
00:18:57.219 --> 00:18:59.121
Et cetera, through using this.
00:18:59.121 --> 00:19:01.290
However, this judge, and i think that's once again
00:19:01.290 --> 00:19:04.393
Where your dad was talking about,
00:19:04.393 --> 00:19:06.529
It bodes well for the future of this case
00:19:06.529 --> 00:19:09.131
Because getting this entirely wiped free,
00:19:09.131 --> 00:19:12.168
We know the reason she did this.
00:19:12.168 --> 00:19:14.403
It was a politically motivated attack on the president.
00:19:14.403 --> 00:19:18.507
And he lays it out there.
00:19:18.507 --> 00:19:20.009
We laid it out there in our brief.
00:19:20.009 --> 00:19:22.211
And also, the majority of this court agreed
00:19:22.211 --> 00:19:25.848
That this is absurd, what they handed down against him.
00:19:25.848 --> 00:19:29.018
Over half a billion dollars, unprecedented.
00:19:29.018 --> 00:19:31.954
The way this law was used was unprecedented.
00:19:31.954 --> 00:19:34.924
All of it shows what we said from the beginning:
00:19:34.924 --> 00:19:37.526
It was lawfare to try and take down president trump.
00:19:37.526 --> 00:19:41.564
It was not trying to do something for the goodwill
00:19:41.564 --> 00:19:45.568
Of the state of new york under this attorney general.
00:19:45.568 --> 00:19:48.070
And you know what?
00:19:48.070 --> 00:19:49.638
She has her own problems now
00:19:49.638 --> 00:19:52.675
With lying on loan documents,
00:19:52.675 --> 00:19:55.211
Alleged, that are being investigated.
00:19:55.211 --> 00:19:57.613
As they always say, when they accuse you of doing something,
00:19:57.613 --> 00:20:01.584
When the left accuses you of doing something,
00:20:01.584 --> 00:20:03.486
They're probably doing that actually themselves.
00:20:03.486 --> 00:20:07.289
- now, let's go though to martin in north carolina
00:20:07.289 --> 00:20:09.692
Watching on youtube.
00:20:09.692 --> 00:20:10.893
Martin, go ahead.
00:20:10.893 --> 00:20:12.595
- [martin] good morning, everybody.
00:20:13.396 --> 00:20:14.930
I wanna add one quick thing to it.
00:20:14.930 --> 00:20:17.099
Warren, i appreciate that.
00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:18.434
Remember, don't think so highly of yourself.
00:20:18.434 --> 00:20:20.936
God will exalt in due season.
00:20:20.936 --> 00:20:22.671
Now, from the brief that, and your father had said
00:20:22.671 --> 00:20:28.010
Something that brought a question
00:20:28.744 --> 00:20:29.845
In the comments you made, jordan,
00:20:29.845 --> 00:20:31.647
And will kind of clarified what i wanted to ask.
00:20:31.647 --> 00:20:35.751
We know that when you go to a bank,
00:20:35.751 --> 00:20:38.454
That appraisals are subjective.
00:20:38.454 --> 00:20:42.558
- sure. - and everybody agrees
00:20:42.558 --> 00:20:43.826
Who is the victim.
00:20:43.826 --> 00:20:45.261
But when you lie on a federal application,
00:20:45.261 --> 00:20:49.098
As what ms. james is being accused of,
00:20:49.098 --> 00:20:52.334
Would the victim be the banks
00:20:52.334 --> 00:20:55.171
Because they're not making the money they should
00:20:55.171 --> 00:20:58.207
Based on the information they were given?
00:20:58.207 --> 00:21:00.609
Were they the victims?
00:21:00.609 --> 00:21:01.811
- in theory, yes, i believe so.
00:21:01.811 --> 00:21:03.245
- well, and specifically here,
00:21:03.245 --> 00:21:05.448
The attorney general tried to use
00:21:05.448 --> 00:21:07.283
A "this is a public interest" in pursuing this case
00:21:07.283 --> 00:21:11.086
To kind of uh ensure that the trust
00:21:11.086 --> 00:21:13.889
In the way that business is run is able to be upheld.
00:21:13.889 --> 00:21:18.794
And that's the theory that she went on.
00:21:18.794 --> 00:21:21.130
She wasn't even claiming the banks were victims there.
00:21:21.130 --> 00:21:24.033
In her case, yes, there is an argument that when you lie,
00:21:24.033 --> 00:21:29.371
One, it's just a crime to lie on mortgage documents
00:21:30.439 --> 00:21:33.042
That are statutorily put forward.
00:21:33.042 --> 00:21:36.579
But yeah, the victim would be a bank
00:21:36.579 --> 00:21:38.180
Because if you're getting more favorable loan term-
00:21:38.180 --> 00:21:40.950
- many of those papers to sign,
00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:42.117
I feel they're trying to trick you.
00:21:42.117 --> 00:21:43.352
- yeah, right, but it's like if you're,
00:21:43.352 --> 00:21:44.954
Then you're maybe getting a lower rate than you would,
00:21:44.954 --> 00:21:47.256
So the bank is losing money, but also,
00:21:47.256 --> 00:21:49.592
If you're getting a loan that maybe should have gone
00:21:49.592 --> 00:21:51.794
To someone else because banks only have
00:21:51.794 --> 00:21:54.230
A finite amount of money that they can lend out,
00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:56.999
So there are different ways to look at it.
00:21:56.999 --> 00:21:58.934
But when you're also talking about a mortgage,
00:21:58.934 --> 00:22:01.537
It's a much smaller level of potential.
00:22:01.537 --> 00:22:06.008
There's a lot more competitors for that
00:22:06.008 --> 00:22:07.743
Rather than a highly sophisticated business loan.
00:22:07.743 --> 00:22:10.813
There truly were no victims in that.
00:22:10.813 --> 00:22:13.916
- now, let's go to john.
00:22:13.916 --> 00:22:15.651
John is watching on pluto tv.
00:22:15.651 --> 00:22:17.620
I assume that's on the salem news channel.
00:22:17.620 --> 00:22:19.188
Likely, we're also on live.
00:22:19.188 --> 00:22:21.156
John, go ahead.
00:22:21.156 --> 00:22:22.391
- [john] trump has cut through it all.
00:22:22.391 --> 00:22:24.226
But i see one obstacle that we're all facing.
00:22:24.226 --> 00:22:29.265
When you're dealing with people like this,
00:22:30.165 --> 00:22:32.535
The letitia james, go down the list,
00:22:32.535 --> 00:22:35.104
There's 100 of them, there's 1,000 of them.
00:22:35.104 --> 00:22:37.840
Within our constitution, with them just dissecting it
00:22:38.874 --> 00:22:44.113
To way they want to fit and then erase
00:22:44.947 --> 00:22:46.916
The whole idea of our america,
00:22:46.916 --> 00:22:51.086
That falls into the category of treason.
00:22:51.954 --> 00:22:54.690
So i'm suggesting the castle-
00:22:54.690 --> 00:22:57.660
- yeah, john, i think that that is something that,
00:22:57.660 --> 00:23:00.062
Look, the treason word, i would say, until fairly recently,
00:23:00.062 --> 00:23:04.333
It was being thrown around a little too willy-nilly,
00:23:04.333 --> 00:23:06.302
Or sometimes wasn't being thrown around at all
00:23:06.302 --> 00:23:08.037
In legitimate course.
00:23:08.037 --> 00:23:09.738
Now we've seen, with even some of the moves,
00:23:09.738 --> 00:23:11.273
And we can even talk about what tulsi gabbard's been doing,
00:23:11.273 --> 00:23:13.576
Those have become a bit more consistent.
00:23:13.576 --> 00:23:16.378
Now, i'm not sure if this would be considered treason.
00:23:16.378 --> 00:23:18.380
I feel like that's going a little far
00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:19.848
When you're talking about really a business,
00:23:19.848 --> 00:23:21.817
Even though her role was to take down
00:23:21.817 --> 00:23:23.686
Essentially the president of the united states.
00:23:23.686 --> 00:23:26.055
I think you get into a hairy area that i wanna make sure
00:23:27.189 --> 00:23:30.693
That we don't end up biting you in return.
00:23:30.693 --> 00:23:34.263
- well, and i think, once again, as you say,
00:23:34.263 --> 00:23:36.565
You have to be careful how far you go sometimes.
00:23:36.565 --> 00:23:39.435
Like with the impeachment
00:23:39.435 --> 00:23:40.603
Against president trump. - absolutely.
00:23:40.603 --> 00:23:42.071
- they lowered the bar for impeachment in perpetuity.
00:23:42.071 --> 00:23:44.673
The democrats did, because they impeached him
00:23:44.673 --> 00:23:47.009
Over essentially nothing.
00:23:47.009 --> 00:23:49.311
We know the impeachment trial all too well.
00:23:49.311 --> 00:23:52.014
- yeah, and the republicans have, during the biden era,
00:23:52.014 --> 00:23:56.318
They teased it a lot and then never went forward
00:23:56.318 --> 00:23:59.088
Because i was hopeful that really that was a fringe group
00:23:59.088 --> 00:24:01.991
Who understood that this was a pathway
00:24:01.991 --> 00:24:04.193
That was not a good idea.
00:24:04.193 --> 00:24:05.728
- but, john, to your point, and i agree with you, logan.
00:24:05.728 --> 00:24:08.464
I don't think that the lawfare that letitia james did
00:24:08.464 --> 00:24:12.001
Was per se treason, especially when you read the text
00:24:12.001 --> 00:24:15.004
Of what treason is defined by the constitution.
00:24:15.004 --> 00:24:18.807
But i would lean more towards what tulsi gabbard has said,
00:24:18.807 --> 00:24:23.545
A treasonous conspiracy, when it was directed
00:24:23.545 --> 00:24:26.749
By heads of government to manipulate intelligence and things
00:24:26.749 --> 00:24:32.087
In order to wipe out the ingoing president
00:24:32.988 --> 00:24:36.492
Who had been elected at that point, the president-elect,
00:24:36.492 --> 00:24:39.328
To try and effectively either get him out of office
00:24:39.328 --> 00:24:43.632
Or get an indictment against him,
00:24:43.632 --> 00:24:45.801
As adam schiff was trying to do.
00:24:46.435 --> 00:24:47.703
Those things are more treasonous.
00:24:47.703 --> 00:24:49.805
That is trying to unseat
00:24:49.805 --> 00:24:51.540
The head of the united states government
00:24:51.540 --> 00:24:53.475
Using lies, manipulations,
00:24:53.475 --> 00:24:55.577
And weaponization of intelligence.
00:24:55.577 --> 00:24:56.945
- michelle in california, who is an aclj champion.
00:24:56.945 --> 00:24:59.615
Because look, you need organizations like us to exist.
00:24:59.615 --> 00:25:02.117
And i truly believe that.
00:25:02.117 --> 00:25:03.552
I'm not just saying that because, obviously, i'm here.
00:25:03.552 --> 00:25:05.387
I'm one of the spokespeople for the organization.
00:25:05.387 --> 00:25:06.889
I'm here doing this show each and every day.
00:25:06.889 --> 00:25:08.624
But know that i find it incredibly important.
00:25:08.624 --> 00:25:10.559
When we hear these wins, it brings a smile
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:12.561
To a lot of our faces here.
00:25:12.561 --> 00:25:13.796
Michelle, go ahead.
00:25:13.796 --> 00:25:15.431
- [michelle] hi, thank you.
00:25:16.031 --> 00:25:17.299
So first of all, i wanna say i am so honored
00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:19.201
To be a part of an organization that fights for good
00:25:19.201 --> 00:25:22.271
And righteousness, which you guys do.
00:25:22.271 --> 00:25:24.640
My question is, how did this case even come to fruition?
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:28.844
Because trump has no say in the valuation of his property,
00:25:28.844 --> 00:25:33.182
That is why the bank needs an official appraisal.
00:25:33.182 --> 00:25:36.018
So wouldn't that entity be the responsible party?
00:25:36.018 --> 00:25:39.755
- there was some information where there was property
00:25:39.755 --> 00:25:41.557
Stated values- - right, exactly.
00:25:41.557 --> 00:25:43.792
And even the banks in the case were saying,
00:25:43.792 --> 00:25:49.064
Obviously, there's dispute over the valuation.
00:25:50.032 --> 00:25:51.567
- they put out numbers like mar-a-lago is worth $10 million.
00:25:51.567 --> 00:25:54.570
It was like, this is a monster resort.
00:25:54.570 --> 00:25:56.972
- and at the end of the day though,
00:25:56.972 --> 00:25:58.407
The bank was even testifying,
00:25:58.407 --> 00:26:00.075
Like this didn't change at the end of the day
00:26:00.075 --> 00:26:02.678
If it were this or this, us giving the loan.
00:26:02.678 --> 00:26:05.414
That is why it was so egregious
00:26:05.414 --> 00:26:07.382
That they went forward with this
00:26:07.382 --> 00:26:08.584
And then secured through the judge,
00:26:08.584 --> 00:26:10.986
Because remember, it wasn't a jury trial.
00:26:10.986 --> 00:26:12.921
It was a bench trial where the judge was the one
00:26:12.921 --> 00:26:15.157
Who found the trump organization guilty.
00:26:15.157 --> 00:26:18.427
So michelle, once again, the whole thing
00:26:18.427 --> 00:26:22.197
Was not on the up and up from the beginning.
00:26:22.197 --> 00:26:25.267
(light music)
00:26:25.267 --> 00:26:25.267

Jay Sekulow - Court Drops Trump Fraud Penalty

September 10, 2025 | 29:45

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