The IRS Scandal of the Century | TBN

The IRS Scandal of the Century

Watch The IRS Scandal of the Century
August 25, 2020
25:23

Jay Sekulow speaks about the protection of religious freedoms in America.

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The IRS Scandal of the Century

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  • (bright upbeat music)
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  • - Today on Jay Sekulow Live,the IRS scandal of the century.
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  • We'll talk about ittoday, on the broadcast.
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  • (upbeat music)
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  • It started over seven-yearspan, of representing clients
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  • targeted by the IRS.
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  • The ACLJ representedmore than 41 Tea Party
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  • and conservative groupsfor more than 22 States.
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  • Sound familiar to what we'redoing with these parents
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  • right now?
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  • Sound familiar with how we'vebeen fighting the Deep State?
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  • This was the first shotfired back at the Deep State,
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  • it was fired by the AmericanCenter for Law and Justice.
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  • - Against the biggestagency to deal with,
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  • and that is the InternalRevenue Service.
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  • - That's right, the most feared.
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  • Well, it used tobe the most feared
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  • until the Washington Post saidbecause of what we did to it,
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  • the ACLJ it was gutted andit still is to this day.
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  • So from April 2010to May of 2013,
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  • our clients received117 targeting letters
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  • from IRS officials.
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  • These questionnaires demandedthat our clients set aside
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  • their constitutionalrights at the request
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  • of government bureaucracy.
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  • 18 of those letters,of course, were signed
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  • by Lois Lerner, herself.
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  • 42 letters sent to 28 of ourclients after May of 2012,
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  • when the IRS claimstheir discriminatoryheightened scrutiny
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  • had ended.
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  • So they were still doing it.
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  • They asked aboutthings like prayers.
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  • They asked for donor list.
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  • They asked for atext of speeches.
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  • These were both 501c3 and501c4 groups and some groups,
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  • who just because they had thename liberty in their title,
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  • got caught up in this targetingscheme by the top officials
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  • at the IRS.
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  • We exposed how Lois Lernerreally wanted to move
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  • from the bureaucracy intothe Obama administration.
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  • And dad, we had theFBI try to get involved
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  • with our clients.
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  • - It's because of what happenedwas the FBI was notified
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  • because of Lois Lerner.
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  • Lois Lerner said, let's getthe FBI and the FEC involved
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  • in this and we can justbring one criminal case
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  • and we have all theseletters and we got all this
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  • from our FOIA andour litigation.
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  • If we can get one criminalcase against one of these
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  • Tea Party groups, we'llstop their influence.
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  • That was a position that wasbeing advocated at that point
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  • by the Department of theTreasury and the Internal
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  • Revenue Service.
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  • Now, what's alsointeresting there,
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  • is that we did afrontal attack on this.
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  • We went to federal courtseeking injunctive relief,
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  • monetary damages, and so forth.
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  • Now here's what'sso interesting, thatthe fact that the IRS
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  • finally, after years oflitigation conceded their error,
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  • corrected the policies,implemented new procedures,
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  • consented to an injunction,
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  • tells you how seriousthis really was.
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  • It was wrongdoing at thehighest, highest level
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  • of the Internal Revenue Service
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  • and the ACLJ got tothe bottom of it.
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  • Why am I talkingabout that today?
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  • Because it's whetherit's the IRS,
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  • or what's been going onwith Flynn or the unmasking,
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  • we have been involved inand we've been the leaders
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  • in these issues for decades.
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  • - Yes, this came to aclose, not that long ago,
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  • but you might need areminder as December of 2017,
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  • when we posted, that fiveyears ago no one would have
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  • believed that thisvictory was possible.
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  • That we were taking on theObama administration's IRS,
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  • the most feared bureaucraticagency in federal court
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  • over the politically motivatedtargeting of conservative
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  • and Tea Party groups.
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  • And by the way, allthose bad actors,
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  • the IRS are gonenow, long gone now.
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  • And our lawsuit not onlyprompted the IRS to admit it
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  • in federal court, thatit wrongfully targeted
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  • these groups during theObama administration,
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  • but also issued an apologyto our clients for doing so.
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  • And in addition, the IRSconceited it to a court order,
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  • prohibiting it from everengaging in this form
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  • of unconstitutionaldiscrimination in the future
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  • or else the IRS admits thatit targeted the conserves
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  • and Tea Party groupsbased on their viewpoints.
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  • Now we have put togetherover these years,
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  • a documentary thatcovers all of this,
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  • it's called "Targeting US,
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  • "The people's fightagainst the IRS."
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  • And this is a timely momentto watch this documentary.
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  • - I'd tell you somefolks, if you wanna get,
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  • feel like you're in the battle,
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  • get this video, watchit "Targeting US."
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  • (bright upbeat music)
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  • (bright upbeat music)
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  • This really was thebeginning of the battle
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  • against the Deep State.
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  • It was under theObama administration.
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  • So the battle wasthat much tougher,
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  • because you didn't have alliesat the Department of Justice.
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  • You didn't have an ally.
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  • I mean, you are fighting theIRS, the FBI tried to go after
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  • our clients, soundfamiliar again.
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  • They would try to do afterMike, they still are, Mike Flynn
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  • you know, president Trump.
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  • - Definitely, yousee same tactics.
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  • - Yeah, but they wereworking together.
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  • - Oh yeah.
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  • - I mean, remember, I rememberthe day in Washington DC dad,
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  • when we were at our DC office
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  • and the FBI wanted tointerview some of our clients
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  • and we said.- and we said no.
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  • - We are no longercooperating with the IRS,
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  • we're going to court.
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  • - Right.
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  • - So we're negotiating.
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  • - There was the FBI was saying,well, they were interviewing
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  • one interview oneof your clients,
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  • because if there was anypotential wrongdoing,
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  • they wanted to getto the bottom of it.
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  • - Just like my--
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  • - My trust level waszero, at that point,
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  • - Let's free Mike Flynn.
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  • - That was before all of this.
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  • - 10 years before.
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  • - And we said, we met withthem, we didn't let them meet
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  • with our clients and we said,
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  • you know, we're not doing that.
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  • We're not gonna participatein this because we think
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  • it's just a charade.
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  • They would never tell usexactly what the point was,
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  • exactly what theywere looking at was
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  • and we were not gonna put ourclients in that situation.
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  • So what did we do?
  • 00:05:47.283 --> 00:05:48.284
  • We went to federal court.
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  • You know, we ultimately got,I'm going to play this sound
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  • bite first.
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  • And that is the IRSstarted doing this in 2010,
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  • so I'm talkingabout 10 years ago.
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  • And for over two years,the media thought
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  • it was just a sillyconspiracy theory,
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  • this is a bunchof right-wingers,
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  • they don't knowwhat they're doing.
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  • But you know what itended up resulting in?
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  • This.
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  • - They used names likeTea Party or Patriots.
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  • And they selected casessimply because the application
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  • had those names in the title.
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  • That was wrong, the IRS wouldlike to apologize for that.
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  • - Yeah, well, firstof all, I always said,
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  • and I'll say it again, thatapology was not accepted.
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  • We went to federal court toget justice, that's number one.
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  • Number two, they, theyis what Lois Lerner said.
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  • She's the Head of Tax Exempt.
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  • They, could mean you.
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  • You came up with a, be on thelookout list, a BOLO list.
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  • So why we bringing it up today?
  • 00:06:39.135 --> 00:06:40.703
  • Because we've seen a culminationover the last months.
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  • Of all these fauxinvestigations,
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  • Mueller and Ukraineand the Russiagate,
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  • and ends up being nothing.
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  • What happens eachand every time?
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  • This is, you know, sometimesit's just Congress,
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  • sometimes it'sDeep State actors.
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  • Here's one where it was notto a president, it was to you.
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  • That's why we've named the film,
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  • "Targeting US: The People'sFight Against the IRS."
  • 00:07:02.258 --> 00:07:07.263
  • - Yeah absolutely, I mean,this is something again,
  • 00:07:08.698 --> 00:07:10.166
  • I want to, I mean, arewe ready to start playing
  • 00:07:10.166 --> 00:07:12.202
  • some clips for folks or us?
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  • Do you know what I mean?
  • 00:07:13.336 --> 00:07:14.170
  • Just so you get a sense.
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  • If you're listening,you're gonna get a sense
  • 00:07:15.438 --> 00:07:17.507
  • of what you will be seeing,'cause this is visual too.
  • 00:07:17.507 --> 00:07:22.378
  • But if you're watching onFacebook and Periscope as well,
  • 00:07:22.378 --> 00:07:24.647
  • we wanted to just kinda giveyou some glimpse into why,
  • 00:07:24.647 --> 00:07:27.183
  • because you gotta takethe time to retell stories
  • 00:07:27.183 --> 00:07:30.653
  • because there's so manyfacts over such a long period
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  • of time and youdon't wanna forget
  • 00:07:34.791 --> 00:07:36.759
  • because you don't wanthistory to repeat itself.
  • 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:39.963
  • And we don't wanna haveto continue battling
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  • the Deep State forever.
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  • And so take a listenfrom the new documentary
  • 00:07:43.866 --> 00:07:47.604
  • here's a first a video clip,
  • 00:07:47.604 --> 00:07:49.138
  • the opening sequenceof the film.
  • 00:07:49.138 --> 00:07:51.274
  • (bright upbeat music)
  • 00:07:52.141 --> 00:07:55.311
  • - Lois Lerner, why wouldyou say Tea Party cases
  • 00:07:59.549 --> 00:08:03.019
  • were very dangerous?
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  • - On the advice of my counsel,I respectfully exercise
  • 00:08:04.954 --> 00:08:07.557
  • my fifth amendment right
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  • and decline toanswer that question.
  • 00:08:08.825 --> 00:08:10.159
  • - They knew they werebreaking the law.
  • 00:08:10.159 --> 00:08:12.428
  • They knew they wereviolating our rights.
  • 00:08:12.428 --> 00:08:14.998
  • - There were some boneheadsdecision out of the Oval Office.
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  • - Bonehead decisions,but no mass corruption?
  • 00:08:17.967 --> 00:08:20.336
  • - Not even mass corruption,
  • 00:08:20.336 --> 00:08:21.571
  • not even a smidgenof corruption.
  • 00:08:21.571 --> 00:08:22.839
  • - Here's a the tipof the iceberg,
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  • it was far worse thaneven we expected.
  • 00:08:24.140 --> 00:08:26.409
  • - The IRS has finally releaseda list of political groups
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  • it has scrutinized.
  • 00:08:29.045 --> 00:08:31.014
  • - It's was somethingthat no one could believe
  • 00:08:31.014 --> 00:08:32.849
  • our government waseven capable of doing.
  • 00:08:32.849 --> 00:08:35.351
  • - They have way too muchpower and no accountability,
  • 00:08:35.351 --> 00:08:39.389
  • - Never before has the federalgovernment tried to muzzle
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  • everyday Americans, solelybecause of their political view.
  • 00:08:41.991 --> 00:08:45.361
  • - That is as wrong as it gets.
  • 00:08:45.361 --> 00:08:46.896
  • - Lois Lerner knewwhat was coming
  • 00:08:46.896 --> 00:08:49.499
  • and it wasn't gonna be pretty.
  • 00:08:49.499 --> 00:08:50.933
  • - We're fighting theUnited States of America,
  • 00:08:50.933 --> 00:08:52.268
  • at this point.
  • 00:08:52.268 --> 00:08:53.703
  • - We accidentally stumbledinto the corruption
  • 00:08:53.703 --> 00:08:58.107
  • that is going to be in history,
  • 00:08:58.975 --> 00:09:00.243
  • the largest scandalin American history.
  • 00:09:00.243 --> 00:09:02.312
  • - My name is Kevin Kookogey.
  • 00:09:02.312 --> 00:09:03.813
  • - I'm Toby Marie Walker.
  • 00:09:03.813 --> 00:09:05.148
  • - Tom Zawistowski,
  • 00:09:05.148 --> 00:09:06.316
  • - Eric Wilson.
  • 00:09:06.316 --> 00:09:07.150
  • - Mark Kent.
  • 00:09:07.150 --> 00:09:07.984
  • - Becky Gerritson.
  • 00:09:07.984 --> 00:09:08.985
  • - Carole Waddell.
  • 00:09:08.985 --> 00:09:09.986
  • - And this.- And this.
  • 00:09:09.986 --> 00:09:12.255
  • - This is our story.- This is our story
  • 00:09:12.255 --> 00:09:13.523
  • - This is my story.- This is our story.
  • 00:09:13.523 --> 00:09:14.324
  • - This is my story.
  • 00:09:14.324 --> 00:09:15.124
  • (bright upbeat music)
  • 00:09:15.124 --> 00:09:18.194
  • - We had our clientstestify before Congress.
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  • You were testifiedbefore Congress.
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  • We were, again this was,it was kind of a new step
  • 00:09:26.769 --> 00:09:30.506
  • for the ACLJ, because whathappened was back in 2012,
  • 00:09:30.506 --> 00:09:33.209
  • you know, we startedgetting all these contacts,
  • 00:09:33.209 --> 00:09:36.045
  • these were small groups.
  • 00:09:36.045 --> 00:09:37.780
  • Again, I kinda makethe comparison towhat we're happening
  • 00:09:37.780 --> 00:09:40.083
  • today, where we're helpingthese churches out in California
  • 00:09:40.083 --> 00:09:43.052
  • or parents with theeducation issues.
  • 00:09:43.052 --> 00:09:45.922
  • They can't afford law firms.
  • 00:09:45.922 --> 00:09:47.457
  • They can't afford attorneysto handle these situations.
  • 00:09:47.457 --> 00:09:49.625
  • These were smallgrassroots groups,
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  • just trying to gettheir legal status
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  • so they could fundraise,so they could rent buses,
  • 00:09:53.796 --> 00:09:56.566
  • so they could getinsurance, things like,
  • 00:09:56.566 --> 00:09:58.401
  • so they can hold eventsand do so legally.
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  • They voluntarily submittedthemselves to IRS oversight.
  • 00:10:01.270 --> 00:10:05.408
  • They weren't tryingto break the law
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  • and we started gettingcalls and calls and calls,
  • 00:10:07.577 --> 00:10:11.714
  • and dozens of specificTea Party groups
  • 00:10:11.714 --> 00:10:15.351
  • and other conservative groups,there were being harassed.
  • 00:10:15.351 --> 00:10:18.121
  • And, so what happened wasthey weren't being denied,
  • 00:10:18.121 --> 00:10:22.091
  • they just kept gettingmore questionnaires.
  • 00:10:22.091 --> 00:10:25.194
  • And finally thesegroups realized,
  • 00:10:25.194 --> 00:10:27.397
  • that these questionnaires,this is not the normal
  • 00:10:27.397 --> 00:10:29.365
  • IRS procedure, thisis directed at us.
  • 00:10:29.365 --> 00:10:32.435
  • We're being targeted,it looks like.
  • 00:10:32.435 --> 00:10:34.437
  • So we better talkto some lawyers.
  • 00:10:34.437 --> 00:10:36.305
  • So they got to the AmericanCenter for Law, just alone.
  • 00:10:36.305 --> 00:10:39.175
  • This was just alone, to getto that decision that we read
  • 00:10:39.175 --> 00:10:43.379
  • from the IRS, you know,the conceit order saying,
  • 00:10:43.379 --> 00:10:45.982
  • they can ever do this again,or else said and admitting
  • 00:10:45.982 --> 00:10:49.218
  • the wrong doing, maybe--
  • 00:10:49.218 --> 00:10:50.753
  • - Changing their procedures?- Changing their procedures,
  • 00:10:50.753 --> 00:10:52.255
  • gutting the IRS, as theWashington Post call it.
  • 00:10:52.255 --> 00:10:55.658
  • It really changed the whole,
  • 00:10:55.658 --> 00:10:57.660
  • how people even viewthe IRS these days,
  • 00:10:58.861 --> 00:11:00.530
  • - Right.
  • 00:11:00.530 --> 00:11:01.731
  • - It took five years.
  • 00:11:01.731 --> 00:11:03.466
  • So I mean, it tookconsiderable, financial,
  • 00:11:03.466 --> 00:11:07.136
  • those donations thatcome in to the ACLJ,
  • 00:11:08.337 --> 00:11:10.706
  • this is five yearsof work representing.
  • 00:11:10.706 --> 00:11:12.675
  • I mean, I could go throughthe list that we have in here,
  • 00:11:12.675 --> 00:11:14.777
  • there's a Colorado 9-12 project,
  • 00:11:14.777 --> 00:11:16.879
  • the American Patriotsagainst government access,
  • 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:19.048
  • San Antonio Tea Party,Shenandoah ValleyTea Party Patriots,
  • 00:11:19.048 --> 00:11:23.152
  • Wetumpka Tea Party, theOKC Pia associations,
  • 00:11:23.152 --> 00:11:27.123
  • the Richmond Tea Party,Hawaii Tea Party,
  • 00:11:27.123 --> 00:11:29.525
  • Rochester Tea Party, thisgoes on for two more pages.
  • 00:11:29.525 --> 00:11:34.530
  • For five years, we representedall of these clients
  • 00:11:35.865 --> 00:11:37.633
  • in federal court and so ifyou think your donations
  • 00:11:37.633 --> 00:11:40.036
  • don't matter folks,they absolutely do.
  • 00:11:40.036 --> 00:11:42.638
  • It is the reason whywe're able to take down
  • 00:11:42.638 --> 00:11:45.875
  • government agencies likethe IRS, which we did
  • 00:11:45.875 --> 00:11:48.644
  • and why we're able to fightso hard against the Deep State
  • 00:11:48.644 --> 00:11:52.048
  • and really put themunder a microscope.
  • 00:11:52.048 --> 00:11:54.484
  • - What we did becauseof the work at the IRS,
  • 00:11:54.484 --> 00:11:56.886
  • we decided to open upa unit inside the ACLJ
  • 00:11:56.886 --> 00:12:00.556
  • called our GovernmentAffairs Unit.
  • 00:12:00.556 --> 00:12:02.058
  • I'm holding in my hand,the first of the lessons,
  • 00:12:02.058 --> 00:12:06.128
  • the first of this most recentreport that that committee
  • 00:12:06.128 --> 00:12:09.799
  • gives on the freedom ofinformation act litigation
  • 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:12.668
  • on our governmentaccountability project.
  • 00:12:12.668 --> 00:12:14.504
  • That's just the beginning.
  • 00:12:14.504 --> 00:12:16.272
  • And I wanna tell you something,
  • 00:12:16.272 --> 00:12:18.207
  • your support makes this happen.
  • 00:12:18.207 --> 00:12:19.876
  • So again, a huge thankyou to all of you.
  • 00:12:19.876 --> 00:12:23.112
  • For standing with us, sowhether it is fighting in court
  • 00:12:23.112 --> 00:12:26.449
  • on a FISA abuse orwhether it is litigating
  • 00:12:26.449 --> 00:12:29.018
  • for religious freedomhere in the United States
  • 00:12:29.018 --> 00:12:31.053
  • or around the globe, orstanding up for individuals
  • 00:12:31.053 --> 00:12:34.524
  • that were targeted by the IRS.
  • 00:12:34.524 --> 00:12:36.292
  • - We'll be right back, we'llplay more from "Targeting US".
  • 00:12:36.292 --> 00:12:39.428
  • (bright upbeat music)
  • 00:12:39.428 --> 00:12:42.598
  • (bright upbeat music)
  • 00:12:43.449 --> 00:12:46.619
  • We represented the, youknow, 40 plus groups
  • 00:12:46.619 --> 00:12:48.821
  • who were willing tofight out the IRS.
  • 00:12:48.821 --> 00:12:50.890
  • But by winning, we reallywon for so many other groups
  • 00:12:50.890 --> 00:12:54.961
  • who maybe were a little bitafraid of taking on the IRS,
  • 00:12:54.961 --> 00:12:58.398
  • weren't sure if theywanted to get involved
  • 00:12:58.398 --> 00:12:59.966
  • in a legal matter.
  • 00:12:59.966 --> 00:13:01.234
  • We see this time andtime again the ACLJ,
  • 00:13:01.234 --> 00:13:02.902
  • where people arevery gung ho at first
  • 00:13:02.902 --> 00:13:05.004
  • about filing lawsuitsand things like that.
  • 00:13:05.004 --> 00:13:07.874
  • And then suddenly whenyou gotta file a lawsuit,
  • 00:13:07.874 --> 00:13:10.243
  • it's a big deal even if itdoesn't cost you anything.
  • 00:13:10.243 --> 00:13:13.012
  • So the victory though, isn'tjust for the 41 clients.
  • 00:13:13.012 --> 00:13:16.716
  • The victory is for every oneof those nonprofits out there
  • 00:13:16.716 --> 00:13:19.686
  • on both sides of the aisle,
  • 00:13:19.686 --> 00:13:21.187
  • they can't be treated likethis by the IRS ever again,
  • 00:13:21.187 --> 00:13:25.425
  • or else they're in serioustrouble with the IRS.
  • 00:13:25.425 --> 00:13:28.161
  • And the IRS admitted to haveviewpoint discrimination,
  • 00:13:28.161 --> 00:13:31.664
  • viewpoint targeting, but itall started with these letters.
  • 00:13:31.664 --> 00:13:36.469
  • And I wanna play for you.
  • 00:13:36.469 --> 00:13:37.971
  • So share this with yourfriends and family on Facebook
  • 00:13:37.971 --> 00:13:39.372
  • and Periscope.
  • 00:13:39.372 --> 00:13:40.840
  • This is a great show to shareon Facebook and Periscope
  • 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:42.742
  • because it's very visual andit's still good for RadioTunes
  • 00:13:42.742 --> 00:13:45.912
  • because the audio are excellent.
  • 00:13:45.912 --> 00:13:47.413
  • This is coming from ourdocumentary, it's called,
  • 00:13:47.413 --> 00:13:49.282
  • "Targeting US: The people'sfight against the IRS."
  • 00:13:49.282 --> 00:13:53.086
  • Take a listen, becausethis is how it all started.
  • 00:13:53.086 --> 00:13:55.588
  • We go all the way through 2011and we wanna file our taxes.
  • 00:13:57.023 --> 00:14:01.027
  • We wanna do the right thing.
  • 00:14:01.027 --> 00:14:02.095
  • We wanna, we're good citizens.
  • 00:14:02.095 --> 00:14:03.830
  • We're trying to,help them, help us,
  • 00:14:03.830 --> 00:14:06.899
  • nothing until we getinto January of 2012.
  • 00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:11.604
  • And in January, 2012,I received this letter
  • 00:14:11.604 --> 00:14:15.141
  • with a bunch of questions.
  • 00:14:15.141 --> 00:14:17.377
  • And as a first course, oncewe'd had with them at all,
  • 00:14:17.377 --> 00:14:21.180
  • and it came out of theblue, we were just shocked,
  • 00:14:21.180 --> 00:14:22.949
  • I mean, it justcame in the mail.
  • 00:14:22.949 --> 00:14:24.517
  • And then I start toread these questions
  • 00:14:24.517 --> 00:14:26.519
  • and that's when thingsreally got interesting.
  • 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.688
  • - By that time itwas two years later
  • 00:14:28.688 --> 00:14:30.556
  • and we got a letterone after, one evening,
  • 00:14:31.691 --> 00:14:34.327
  • from the IRS saying theywanted all this information.
  • 00:14:34.327 --> 00:14:37.096
  • It was a seven page letterthat I, that we all knew
  • 00:14:37.096 --> 00:14:41.634
  • and immediatelyit was not right.
  • 00:14:41.634 --> 00:14:45.371
  • - We finally get aletter from the IRS,
  • 00:14:45.371 --> 00:14:48.541
  • telling us that they will notapprove our tax exempt status
  • 00:14:48.541 --> 00:14:52.178
  • unless we answer almost90 more questions.
  • 00:14:52.178 --> 00:14:55.915
  • Otherwise, if you don'tanswer these, you'd taken out
  • 00:14:57.383 --> 00:15:00.486
  • and you can't havea tax exempt status.
  • 00:15:00.486 --> 00:15:02.321
  • - 30 questions, 77sub bullets to it.
  • 00:15:02.321 --> 00:15:06.225
  • A total of 88different inquiries.
  • 00:15:06.225 --> 00:15:08.227
  • - I do auditlitigation for a living
  • 00:15:08.227 --> 00:15:10.897
  • against the IRS.
  • 00:15:10.897 --> 00:15:11.898
  • To me, that was like, whoa.
  • 00:15:11.898 --> 00:15:13.399
  • - The letter thatI got from the IRS,
  • 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:15.435
  • not only was filled withegregious questions,
  • 00:15:15.435 --> 00:15:19.272
  • but it gave me avery short timeline
  • 00:15:19.272 --> 00:15:21.240
  • and a window to answerthose questions.
  • 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.276
  • - They came in with thepaperwork and I said,
  • 00:15:23.276 --> 00:15:25.611
  • something's wrong here,I don't know what it is,
  • 00:15:25.611 --> 00:15:27.447
  • I'm not sure what'sgoing on yet,
  • 00:15:27.447 --> 00:15:29.015
  • but this is, something'swrong, this is not.
  • 00:15:29.015 --> 00:15:31.918
  • They shouldn't even be goingin this direction at all.
  • 00:15:31.918 --> 00:15:34.921
  • - And in these questions werequestions about family members
  • 00:15:34.921 --> 00:15:38.357
  • of boards.
  • 00:15:38.357 --> 00:15:39.859
  • There were questions aboutdonors and activity beyond,
  • 00:15:39.859 --> 00:15:44.464
  • just the normal list of donors,but what their activities
  • 00:15:44.464 --> 00:15:49.202
  • and affiliations were as well.
  • 00:15:49.202 --> 00:15:50.903
  • - So again, that isjust how it all started.
  • 00:15:52.171 --> 00:15:55.475
  • Those letters, lettersabout family members,
  • 00:15:55.475 --> 00:15:58.578
  • letters about donorlist, letters aboutcontent of speeches.
  • 00:15:58.578 --> 00:16:03.583
  • We think about this.
  • 00:16:04.317 --> 00:16:05.251
  • How many events do you attend?
  • 00:16:05.251 --> 00:16:06.552
  • Like church andpolitical events?
  • 00:16:06.552 --> 00:16:09.322
  • Well, do you have atranscript of the speech?
  • 00:16:09.322 --> 00:16:11.824
  • I mean, no, especially at avery local grassroots level,
  • 00:16:11.824 --> 00:16:14.927
  • you don't have a transcript,maybe that video of it,
  • 00:16:14.927 --> 00:16:16.763
  • Even these days withtechnology, it's very, you know,
  • 00:16:16.763 --> 00:16:18.865
  • these were verygrassroots organizations.
  • 00:16:18.865 --> 00:16:21.234
  • They wanted all,they wanted actually,
  • 00:16:21.234 --> 00:16:23.803
  • it's some of the questionnaires,
  • 00:16:23.803 --> 00:16:25.238
  • they wanted backdooraccess to their websites.
  • 00:16:25.238 --> 00:16:28.207
  • So they could go in and seethe back door of the website
  • 00:16:28.207 --> 00:16:32.478
  • to see what was going on,which would give them access
  • 00:16:32.478 --> 00:16:34.914
  • to everything theorganization does,
  • 00:16:34.914 --> 00:16:37.650
  • including decisionsthey had made like,
  • 00:16:37.650 --> 00:16:40.086
  • hey, we shouldn't be doingthis, this would be wrong,
  • 00:16:40.086 --> 00:16:42.255
  • so let's not putthis on our website.
  • 00:16:42.255 --> 00:16:43.890
  • I mean, that's totallyillegal to make a decision
  • 00:16:43.890 --> 00:16:45.191
  • to say--
  • 00:16:45.191 --> 00:16:46.592
  • - You have can havediscussions with your board.
  • 00:16:46.592 --> 00:16:48.027
  • - Yeah right, right so that'swhat they wanted to see
  • 00:16:48.027 --> 00:16:50.429
  • if they could bring criminalcharges, you realize that.
  • 00:16:50.429 --> 00:16:54.167
  • Just like they didwith Mike Flynn,
  • 00:16:54.167 --> 00:16:55.668
  • they were trying to finda way as we found out.
  • 00:16:55.668 --> 00:16:58.504
  • - Yeah, we found the emails.
  • 00:16:58.504 --> 00:16:59.972
  • - Because we got the FBI,the FBI got involved.
  • 00:16:59.972 --> 00:17:01.774
  • How could they bringcriminal charges,
  • 00:17:01.774 --> 00:17:03.309
  • at least to get oneof these groups,
  • 00:17:03.309 --> 00:17:05.178
  • so that they'd all back offand that president Obama
  • 00:17:05.178 --> 00:17:07.680
  • wouldn't have to deal with them.
  • 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:09.115
  • - Because their ideawas, if we could get one,
  • 00:17:09.115 --> 00:17:10.883
  • just one case, you get onecase that goes criminal,
  • 00:17:10.883 --> 00:17:13.986
  • that's gonna stop all thesegroups from having any kind
  • 00:17:13.986 --> 00:17:15.888
  • of influence it'll scare them,
  • 00:17:15.888 --> 00:17:17.390
  • which was politically motivated.
  • 00:17:17.390 --> 00:17:18.991
  • Jordan said, in the orderwe got the settlement,
  • 00:17:18.991 --> 00:17:21.460
  • they said, they acknowledgedviewpoint discrimination.
  • 00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:23.429
  • That is one of the worstforms of discrimination.
  • 00:17:23.429 --> 00:17:25.631
  • But like asking for donor listsviolates the first amendment
  • 00:17:25.631 --> 00:17:28.467
  • of the United Statesconstitution, whoyour relative spoke
  • 00:17:28.467 --> 00:17:31.637
  • with on political campaigns,
  • 00:17:31.637 --> 00:17:33.339
  • violates freedom of association.
  • 00:17:33.339 --> 00:17:35.708
  • What elected officials met,violates your members met with,
  • 00:17:35.708 --> 00:17:40.613
  • violates freedom of association.
  • 00:17:41.581 --> 00:17:43.349
  • What petitions you initiated,violated the right to petition
  • 00:17:43.349 --> 00:17:47.420
  • your government for aredress of a grievance.
  • 00:17:47.420 --> 00:17:50.122
  • But it came to a point wherewe had to get involved.
  • 00:17:50.122 --> 00:17:53.459
  • And you know it'sinteresting as well,
  • 00:17:53.459 --> 00:17:55.561
  • that when you look at thetimeline so 2012, you know,
  • 00:17:55.561 --> 00:17:58.831
  • this starts the, letters start,we start getting contacted
  • 00:17:58.831 --> 00:18:02.468
  • because of what the IRS did.
  • 00:18:02.468 --> 00:18:04.503
  • You know, we wentpublic with this,
  • 00:18:04.503 --> 00:18:05.972
  • those giant rallies on CapitolHill, we'd be speaking at,
  • 00:18:05.972 --> 00:18:09.141
  • with senators andmembers of Congress
  • 00:18:09.141 --> 00:18:10.843
  • and grassroots leaders.
  • 00:18:10.843 --> 00:18:12.311
  • Thousands of people wouldshow up on the grounds
  • 00:18:12.311 --> 00:18:15.514
  • of the Capitol, right infront of the US Capitol,
  • 00:18:15.514 --> 00:18:17.583
  • it was being covered byall the news outlets.
  • 00:18:17.583 --> 00:18:19.685
  • Guess what happened in2014, this backfired
  • 00:18:19.685 --> 00:18:23.256
  • on the Obama administration.
  • 00:18:23.256 --> 00:18:24.790
  • Significantly, not only didRepublicans, retained control
  • 00:18:24.790 --> 00:18:29.362
  • of the house representatives,they took back the Senate.
  • 00:18:29.362 --> 00:18:32.131
  • So for president Obama'sfinal two years in office,
  • 00:18:32.131 --> 00:18:35.902
  • he had absolutely zero abilityto pass any legislation.
  • 00:18:35.902 --> 00:18:40.840
  • But I think it is important,to how do we get involved?
  • 00:18:42.275 --> 00:18:44.410
  • So the groups, get the letters,
  • 00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:47.113
  • then the ACLJ gets involved.
  • 00:18:47.113 --> 00:18:49.548
  • - Yeah, let's goahead and play it.
  • 00:18:49.548 --> 00:18:51.717
  • - For years, I hadwatched Fox News
  • 00:18:51.717 --> 00:18:55.254
  • and of course, Jay isa regular contributor
  • 00:18:55.254 --> 00:18:57.690
  • and guest on Fox News.
  • 00:18:57.690 --> 00:19:00.126
  • And I had always, seeing thethings that ACLJ represented
  • 00:19:00.126 --> 00:19:05.097
  • and the fights thatthey fight for people
  • 00:19:05.097 --> 00:19:07.233
  • that are unlawfullyimprisoned in other countries
  • 00:19:07.233 --> 00:19:09.669
  • and Christian groups, I hadalways admired him so much.
  • 00:19:09.669 --> 00:19:13.539
  • So Toby had gonethrough all the work,
  • 00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:15.474
  • well then one day she called me
  • 00:19:15.474 --> 00:19:16.943
  • and I was at one of thehospitals I was working at.
  • 00:19:16.943 --> 00:19:18.711
  • She's like, hey, can youjump on a conference call
  • 00:19:18.711 --> 00:19:21.147
  • at such and such time?
  • 00:19:21.147 --> 00:19:22.648
  • And I'm like, well, I'll beon the road at that time,
  • 00:19:22.648 --> 00:19:24.617
  • but if you know, call in fromthe car, yeah, what is it?
  • 00:19:24.617 --> 00:19:27.253
  • She's like, we're gonna betalking and they'll sell Jay
  • 00:19:27.253 --> 00:19:29.989
  • and they want, you know,several of us on air to listen.
  • 00:19:29.989 --> 00:19:32.625
  • I'm like, oh, okay, that's cool.
  • 00:19:32.625 --> 00:19:34.593
  • So I left the place I wasworking at and headed on home
  • 00:19:34.593 --> 00:19:37.430
  • and when I'm goingdown, (indistinct)
  • 00:19:37.430 --> 00:19:38.965
  • and I can rememberexactly where I was at.
  • 00:19:38.965 --> 00:19:41.500
  • And the conference calls startedand Jay Sekulow comes on,
  • 00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:46.372
  • coming out of the speakersin my car. (chuckles)
  • 00:19:46.372 --> 00:19:49.208
  • And I was just like, oh mygosh, he's really talking to us.
  • 00:19:49.208 --> 00:19:53.045
  • - I remember he was on thecall, but he just, he listened.
  • 00:19:53.045 --> 00:19:56.916
  • He didn't even say anythingfor like half an hour, okay.
  • 00:19:56.916 --> 00:20:01.120
  • And these stories are comingthrough these, the phone lines
  • 00:20:01.120 --> 00:20:04.423
  • from all these people,you know, saying,
  • 00:20:04.423 --> 00:20:06.258
  • oh yeah, they want to knowwhat books we were reading.
  • 00:20:06.258 --> 00:20:08.928
  • And we wanna a bookreport, or you know,
  • 00:20:08.928 --> 00:20:11.130
  • we wanted to know howmany of your board members
  • 00:20:11.130 --> 00:20:14.200
  • have ever run forpolitical office.
  • 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:15.935
  • And we want their family name,
  • 00:20:15.935 --> 00:20:17.570
  • the names of theirfamily members.
  • 00:20:17.570 --> 00:20:19.271
  • and if any of them haverun for political office.
  • 00:20:19.271 --> 00:20:21.207
  • And we wanna know ifthey ever plan to run
  • 00:20:21.207 --> 00:20:23.175
  • for political office
  • 00:20:23.175 --> 00:20:24.443
  • and they're going, whoa,whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
  • 00:20:24.443 --> 00:20:26.846
  • And Jay Sekulowbroke it on the call.
  • 00:20:26.846 --> 00:20:29.382
  • And he just said, he said,I'm gonna tell you right now,
  • 00:20:29.382 --> 00:20:32.785
  • we will representall of you for this,
  • 00:20:32.785 --> 00:20:35.988
  • This is completelywrong, this is something,
  • 00:20:35.988 --> 00:20:38.157
  • that's, I've neverseen this before.
  • 00:20:38.157 --> 00:20:40.126
  • I've never heard of this before.
  • 00:20:40.126 --> 00:20:41.660
  • And the ACLJ is going tostand up and fight for you
  • 00:20:41.660 --> 00:20:45.164
  • in this case.
  • 00:20:45.164 --> 00:20:46.599
  • And that was a hugerelief because until then,
  • 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:49.135
  • we weren't sure howwe're gonna fight back.
  • 00:20:49.135 --> 00:20:51.103
  • - What we found out onthat, large conference call,
  • 00:20:51.103 --> 00:20:53.739
  • was that, everybody wasbeing asked the same thing
  • 00:20:53.739 --> 00:20:56.876
  • from all thesedifferent offices.
  • 00:20:56.876 --> 00:20:58.477
  • They were trying toshut groups down,
  • 00:20:58.477 --> 00:21:00.880
  • that they disagreed with.
  • 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:02.214
  • This was very, very serious.
  • 00:21:02.214 --> 00:21:04.283
  • - So we've taken you throughkind of how this began,
  • 00:21:04.283 --> 00:21:06.886
  • the opening, getting theletters from the IRS,
  • 00:21:06.886 --> 00:21:09.989
  • how the lawsuit began.
  • 00:21:09.989 --> 00:21:11.957
  • But now we wanna bring you tokind of, when we've finally
  • 00:21:11.957 --> 00:21:16.962
  • five years into this, gotthe decision from the court.
  • 00:21:18.397 --> 00:21:21.667
  • And this is actually,this is a cool clip
  • 00:21:21.667 --> 00:21:23.402
  • because it's one of our clients
  • 00:21:23.402 --> 00:21:25.638
  • going through thedecision for you.
  • 00:21:25.638 --> 00:21:27.573
  • Take a listen or watch.
  • 00:21:27.573 --> 00:21:29.408
  • - The government hasadmitted and has entered
  • 00:21:30.543 --> 00:21:33.045
  • into this, this decree.
  • 00:21:33.045 --> 00:21:35.181
  • And they've agreed thatit's wrong to apply US laws
  • 00:21:35.181 --> 00:21:38.617
  • against any individualbased upon their name.
  • 00:21:38.617 --> 00:21:43.622
  • - For the positionsthat they hold,
  • 00:21:44.757 --> 00:21:45.991
  • provided they'relawful positions,
  • 00:21:45.991 --> 00:21:47.526
  • which ours of course were,the issues that we espouse
  • 00:21:47.526 --> 00:21:51.997
  • for our associations oreven perceived associations,
  • 00:21:51.997 --> 00:21:55.301
  • that's the first point.
  • 00:21:55.301 --> 00:21:56.836
  • The second point is that,the government has agreed
  • 00:21:56.836 --> 00:22:00.106
  • that their actions, whateverthey take in this process
  • 00:22:00.106 --> 00:22:03.075
  • must be evenhandedand never based upon
  • 00:22:03.075 --> 00:22:05.978
  • the applicant's name,their political viewpoint
  • 00:22:05.978 --> 00:22:09.081
  • or associations orperceived associations.
  • 00:22:09.081 --> 00:22:11.851
  • And then the governmentfinally declared or agreed,
  • 00:22:11.851 --> 00:22:15.354
  • that discrimination on thebasis of our viewpoints, right?
  • 00:22:15.354 --> 00:22:18.991
  • That the government inadministering the tax code,
  • 00:22:18.991 --> 00:22:21.527
  • it's a violation offundamental violation
  • 00:22:21.527 --> 00:22:23.662
  • of our first amendment rights,which we knew all along,
  • 00:22:23.662 --> 00:22:25.731
  • but the government was denying.
  • 00:22:25.731 --> 00:22:27.266
  • To treat us differently ingetting tax exempt status
  • 00:22:28.734 --> 00:22:32.505
  • or any treatmentunder the tax code
  • 00:22:32.505 --> 00:22:34.440
  • based solely uponour point of view.
  • 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.675
  • So to have these now agreed
  • 00:22:36.675 --> 00:22:39.612
  • and admitted by theUS government willprovide precedent,
  • 00:22:39.612 --> 00:22:43.282
  • which I hope in the futurewill at least hold at bay,
  • 00:22:43.282 --> 00:22:47.453
  • when someone is temptedto do this again.
  • 00:22:47.453 --> 00:22:49.488
  • - They admitted that, theylied, cheat, broke the law,
  • 00:22:49.488 --> 00:22:53.459
  • you know, and I guess that'sthe first time my understanding
  • 00:22:53.459 --> 00:22:56.662
  • that they've ever admittedit in a court proceeding
  • 00:22:56.662 --> 00:23:00.499
  • that they actuallydid something wrong.
  • 00:23:00.499 --> 00:23:04.403
  • - We had things put in place,
  • 00:23:04.403 --> 00:23:06.705
  • so they wouldn't do itagain to somebody else,
  • 00:23:06.705 --> 00:23:09.608
  • which is even more important.
  • 00:23:09.608 --> 00:23:11.043
  • And the most important, thatthen becomes a precedent
  • 00:23:12.444 --> 00:23:16.916
  • for that next group, thatcomes five, 10 years from now.
  • 00:23:18.317 --> 00:23:22.821
  • My nine year old, whenshe grows up, she can say,
  • 00:23:22.821 --> 00:23:25.858
  • "Hey, my dad did it,I can do it too."
  • 00:23:25.858 --> 00:23:28.360
  • And she has a voice andthat's really why we did this,
  • 00:23:28.360 --> 00:23:31.430
  • wasn't for me, it was for her.
  • 00:23:31.430 --> 00:23:33.666
  • - I wanna take a couple minuteshere and talk about this
  • 00:23:33.666 --> 00:23:35.734
  • because, folks thisis really important.
  • 00:23:35.734 --> 00:23:38.404
  • You know, we get so busy andwe've had so much activity
  • 00:23:38.404 --> 00:23:42.174
  • since these casesthat you forget.
  • 00:23:42.174 --> 00:23:43.976
  • And that's why, it'sso important to dothese documentaries,
  • 00:23:43.976 --> 00:23:46.912
  • because you want thehistory of what took place.
  • 00:23:46.912 --> 00:23:49.381
  • And this, again, we couldn'tdo this without you.
  • 00:23:49.381 --> 00:23:51.884
  • So first, thank you to all ofyou for allowing us to do this
  • 00:23:51.884 --> 00:23:55.221
  • because without your support,we don't get to do this,
  • 00:23:55.221 --> 00:23:57.256
  • it's that simple,that's number one.
  • 00:23:57.256 --> 00:23:59.725
  • Number two, look at the result.
  • 00:23:59.725 --> 00:24:01.660
  • Now this was congressionaltestimony, which was extensive,
  • 00:24:01.660 --> 00:24:05.097
  • where our clients testifiedbefore members of Congress.
  • 00:24:05.097 --> 00:24:08.734
  • We then had litigation,which was not done overnight.
  • 00:24:08.734 --> 00:24:12.805
  • It was a lot of hearings, a lotof briefs, a lot of motions,
  • 00:24:12.805 --> 00:24:15.874
  • appeals back and forth,we were successful.
  • 00:24:15.874 --> 00:24:19.979
  • Then it was settlementdiscussions.
  • 00:24:19.979 --> 00:24:21.981
  • You just saw in that clip,
  • 00:24:21.981 --> 00:24:23.515
  • that we just playedfrom the movie,
  • 00:24:23.515 --> 00:24:25.718
  • the nature and scope ofthose settlement discussions,
  • 00:24:25.718 --> 00:24:28.254
  • which were really fantastic.
  • 00:24:28.254 --> 00:24:30.522
  • And we got an unbelievableresult for our clients,
  • 00:24:30.522 --> 00:24:33.826
  • which is an unbelievableresult for the country.
  • 00:24:33.826 --> 00:24:36.729
  • And none of that happens,none of this takes place
  • 00:24:36.729 --> 00:24:40.366
  • without yoursupport of the ACLJ.
  • 00:24:40.366 --> 00:24:42.368
  • - As always, let methank everybody at TBN
  • 00:24:42.368 --> 00:24:44.970
  • for providing thistime to us at no cost.
  • 00:24:44.970 --> 00:24:47.640
  • So we can update you onthe most important issues
  • 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.708
  • of the day.
  • 00:24:49.708 --> 00:24:50.943
  • From all of us, theACLJ, thanks TBN.
  • 00:24:50.943 --> 00:24:52.911
  • (bright upbeat music)
  • 00:24:52.911 --> 00:24:56.081